**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Feb 09 02:59:57 2011 Feb 09 03:05:44 how do i connect sixaxis controller to my n900? Feb 09 03:18:43 nm i found the instruction on the web Feb 09 03:43:34 so guys Feb 09 03:43:36 Alien Dalvik Feb 09 03:43:44 how awesome is this Feb 09 03:46:31 ? Feb 09 03:46:42 someone finally did it? Feb 09 03:46:44 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXWEyKjwk2g Feb 09 03:46:47 yep Feb 09 03:46:58 video here shows android apps running on an N900 Feb 09 03:46:59 seamlessly Feb 09 03:47:15 as if they were native Feb 09 03:48:41 nice Sazpaimon Feb 09 03:49:08 now there will be absolutely no reason NOT to get an N9(00) Feb 09 03:49:30 noodles900: you still around? use "pointer" mode in the microb Feb 09 03:50:01 drag stylus from off-screen lower left corner in a right motion onto the screen, and an arrow will appear Feb 09 03:50:08 select the arrow to "lock" into that mode Feb 09 03:50:27 select your text, then just sign off of IRC and ignore that I tried to help you, bastard. Feb 09 03:51:50 I'm still looking to snipe an N900 on ebay Feb 09 03:53:09 http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Nokia-N900-Unlocked-/280624733194?pt=Cell_Phones&hash=item4156899c0a seriously? Feb 09 03:53:16 Current bid: US $0.01 Feb 09 03:53:17 Shipping: $530.00 Feb 09 03:53:43 lucent, if I knew anyone hiring for technical documentation writer I'd recommend you in a heartbeat Feb 09 03:54:33 Sazpaimon, $530 is like same-business-day courier service across the country Feb 09 03:55:13 more like same-business-day courier service across the accross the continent Feb 09 03:55:37 apparently it's in Lithuania Feb 09 03:56:30 i forget, is the N900 global 3G? Feb 09 03:57:12 yeah Feb 09 03:57:43 w/ T-Mobile 3G bands for US/Canada Feb 09 03:57:57 and when I said across the country, I did kinda mean across the continent I live on :) Feb 09 03:59:46 yeah I'm switching to tmo soon Feb 09 04:00:01 hate to abandon my E71, but I can't deal with AT&T anymore Feb 09 04:00:31 and in philadelphia, tmo's 3G is barely used compared to AT&T Feb 09 04:00:41 so I don't have to deal with network saturation Feb 09 04:00:55 at&t has better underground coverage though, so there's that Feb 09 04:01:24 Yeah. 3G on T-Mo near Seattle is awesome. I've seen 7Mb/s at my office Feb 09 04:01:46 It's all about coverage in your area I guess :) Feb 09 04:01:53 It's pretty good in Boston too. Feb 09 04:01:59 tmo doesnt have to worry about the iphone saturating their 3G network Feb 09 04:02:13 Though I live near their HQ building ;) Feb 09 04:02:59 maybe now that they've rebranded their 3G as 4G and are starting to push android phones with "4G" support it may happen soon Feb 09 04:03:13 but for now it's faster than most other companies Feb 09 04:04:01 it all depends on the area I guess Feb 09 04:04:31 and since tmobile actually has cheaper rates if you get it without a contract (which you have to do if you want an N900), it's cheaper than at&T Feb 09 04:05:03 though you cant compare to at&t now because they dont offer unlimited data, my current unlimited plan ranks in the upper 90s Feb 09 04:05:04 And you used to be able to get a dumbphone data plan for $10/month and use that with the N900 Feb 09 04:05:22 but I think they dropped that or something Feb 09 04:05:46 yeah Feb 09 04:05:54 you're lucky if you got grandfathered into that i guess Feb 09 04:05:56 bummer Feb 09 04:06:14 I was going to switch to be on a family plan with my wife in a bit, too :| Feb 09 04:06:49 i'd switch to a family plan with my girl, but she's still on contract with AT&T Feb 09 04:06:57 she can break it though, but I dont know if it'd be worth it Feb 09 04:07:15 I'd be getting the unsubsidized plan, so she'd need to buy a phonje at full price Feb 09 04:07:34 she can use my E71 I guess, but that'd be 2G only on tmobile Feb 09 04:07:58 speaking of their $10 plan, i thik they offered the Nokia 5230 with that Feb 09 04:08:17 the 5230 may be a lower end phone, but it's certainly not a dumbphone Feb 09 04:08:28 they offered the TM506 SE phone with it too. That was a rather nice dumbphone. It was great for pairing to my N800 Feb 09 04:09:06 well, I could have said: non-android, non-WP7, non-laptop, but I figured dumbphone was shorter to type Feb 09 04:10:32 http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/mob/2172338275.html Feb 09 04:10:37 dang Feb 09 04:10:40 $400 for an N900? Feb 09 04:10:44 i'll stick with ebay Feb 09 04:10:56 http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/mob/2152784647.html that's interesting Feb 09 04:11:05 trading an HD2 for an N900 and not the other way around Feb 09 04:11:14 It's funny 'cause it's $350 new on amazon :) Feb 09 04:12:12 http://newjersey.craigslist.org/mob/2145057435.html Feb 09 04:12:15 this was posted a month ago Feb 09 04:12:23 too good to be true? Feb 09 04:12:46 Sazpaimon: I wonder if the hint would be in " this is a steal. " Feb 09 04:12:53 I think by "this is a steal" he means "I stole it" Feb 09 04:12:57 fine with me Feb 09 04:13:00 Sazpaimon: ask if he has a receipt Feb 09 04:13:18 Sazpaimon: screw that. I don't give money to thieving scum. Feb 09 04:13:31 i'm fine with accepting stolen goods as long as it was passed through no more than 4 hands Feb 09 04:13:37 All this "Data Plan" BS in the USA is garbage. Being in Australia, I just get a fixed monthly amount which I get to use for data, calls, SMS, MMS, basically everything except premium calls and special stuff Feb 09 04:13:52 Sazpaimon: aaaand that's why phones get stolen in the first place Feb 09 04:14:00 doc|home, i live in philadelphia, you get used to it Feb 09 04:14:53 jonwil, I'd have to run the numbers, but I think moving half a world away might eat into my data plans savings :) Feb 09 04:15:03 thing is he lives like Feb 09 04:15:08 5 hours by transit away Feb 09 04:15:39 3 hours if i take the amtrak Feb 09 04:16:03 Sazpaimon: 3 hours x 2 (return journey) plus ticket price plus it being likely stolen = no warranty Feb 09 04:16:10 is it worth it? Feb 09 04:16:16 http://newjersey.craigslist.org/mob/2159395155.html maybe this would be better Feb 09 04:16:42 area code leads me to believe it's another north jersey entry Feb 09 04:16:57 On the plan I am about to switch to, I pay AU$14.99 and get $300 worth of credit per month Feb 09 04:17:11 http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/emd/2129242365.html Feb 09 04:17:14 the hell is this? Feb 09 04:17:30 spam Feb 09 04:18:01 Only things I cant use it for is international calls/roaming, certain kinds of mobile content (that I dont use), premium rate numbers, some fax stuff and some wierd digital data stuff Feb 09 04:18:21 Regular internet data costs me 0.2c per 10kb out of my cap Feb 09 04:18:31 "certain kinds of mobile content" Feb 09 04:18:36 what is that, do they lock ports? Feb 09 04:18:50 no, I am referring to special downloads and upcharges from the carrier Feb 09 04:21:41 Is there any benefit to uploading code to the maemo garage if you also upload the package to Extras Testing? Feb 09 05:17:55 Netflix would be great if it ever actually worked reliably. Feb 09 05:41:30 The following packages will be upgraded: libsoup2.26-dev (2.26.3-3maemo1 => 2.26.3-3maemo1) Feb 09 05:41:33 ??? Feb 09 05:45:20 :D I love my n900. I just flashed dd-wrt firmware to my new router with it! Can your iThing do that? Feb 09 05:46:35 ofc yes! Feb 09 05:47:00 all i need to do is to download an application from the iCrap store! Feb 09 05:48:03 :P Feb 09 05:48:34 ^^ Feb 09 05:50:30 RobbieThe1st: tftp transfer? Feb 09 05:50:58 i think general web upload Feb 09 05:51:00 Nah; just plain old http file upload Feb 09 05:51:03 Yea Feb 09 05:51:16 huh Feb 09 05:51:21 But with the lack of file manager etc... and javascript support... Feb 09 05:51:24 cause last time I did dd-wrt I had to do a tftp transfer Feb 09 05:51:30 Most devices would have trouble Feb 09 05:51:40 I just replaced that router the weekend before last with one I put openwrt on Feb 09 05:51:42 wmarone: It's a WRT160N v3 Feb 09 05:51:57 cool Feb 09 07:01:29 sony is going crazy =))) Feb 09 07:01:52 Nokia is angel with it support if you watch what is going on with sony right now =) Feb 09 07:02:42 ZogG, What is Sony doing? Feb 09 07:03:25 Ken-Young it wants to sue people who commented and.... wait for it... WATCHED the video of geohot of jailbroken 3.55 =) Feb 09 07:04:28 it's not just blobs, but even if you manage to have homebrew on your ps3 you are doomed =0) Feb 09 08:26:51 ~tell compengi about batteryfaq Feb 09 08:48:43 Anyone know which module/app is the one that displays the list of internet connections for you to pick from? Feb 09 08:51:05 <_nicolai_> jonwil, connectivity-ui ? Feb 09 08:51:17 there is no such package or binary Feb 09 08:51:24 plenty of packages similarly named Feb 09 08:51:29 with no idea which one is the right one Feb 09 08:54:44 jonwil libconic Feb 09 08:55:44 btw, you request a connection and if there isnt a preffered network it shows that dialog Feb 09 08:56:03 * RST38h moos carnivorously Feb 09 08:56:30 well in this case I am trying to clone the dialog, not talk to it (I need to display a list of connections myself for my new ICD policy plugin Feb 09 08:56:51 but yeah libconic is a good place to start Feb 09 08:56:59 since its oss Feb 09 08:57:35 yep Feb 09 08:59:39 Looks like libicd_policy_ask.so is the next major link in the chain Feb 09 09:00:19 <_nicolai_> d-feet shows com.nokia.icd_ui.show_conn_dlg is in /usr/bin/osso-connectivity-ui-conndlgs Feb 09 09:01:39 eeek, the killer cow Feb 09 09:02:08 Looks like the secret stuff is in libiap_conndlg.so Feb 09 09:03:02 actually, I dont think I need to reverse engineer that at all Feb 09 09:03:25 What I need ultimatly is a dialog box with a scrollable list of clickable buttons Feb 09 09:03:35 I dont need any of the secret sauce in libiap_conndlg.so Feb 09 09:05:09 Doc: Are we already having "the moment" on tmo? Feb 09 09:05:20 Doc: As result of Elop's leaked memo? Feb 09 09:06:02 RST38h: leaked? url? Feb 09 09:06:12 chx: google. Feb 09 09:06:23 http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/08/nokia-ceo-stephen-elop-rallies-troops-in-brutally-honest-burnin Feb 09 09:06:25 this? Feb 09 09:06:31 RST38h, the point at which the signal/noise approaches 0 Feb 09 09:06:46 johnx: has been reached a while ago Feb 09 09:08:33 * DocScrutinizer feeds RST38h witha few pound of raw meat Feb 09 09:10:00 I dont think Nokia is going to want to give up their leadership in UI and user experience and jump on the MS bandwagon where MS controls most of the UI and UX Feb 09 09:10:30 Hi, I'm trying to work out how to change the "default" row height of maemo5 styled listWidgetItems. I have read many forum posts saying howto make custom delegates that return a calculated sizeHint - but this sounds to me like overkill. All my rows in all my listWidgets within my app need to be the same height but less than the default so that a greater number of items can be seen at any one time. I think this envolves mod Feb 09 09:10:30 ifying something in QMaemo5Style - but again i cant seem to find a simple call to di it. Can anybody tell me a simple way to set the default height of these rows to say half the current (which i think would be 35 instead of 70)? Feb 09 09:10:51 Doc: Beef? =) Feb 09 09:11:18 RST38h: what does "the moment" mean? Feb 09 09:11:20 sorry i shoudl have stated Qt listWidget Feb 09 09:11:51 chx: If someone sneaks up on you and hits you with a baseball bat from behind, you will be having a moment Feb 09 09:12:27 chx: If that leads to your premature death, you would be having THE moment Feb 09 09:12:36 heh Feb 09 09:12:47 (which also explains a difference between articles in English :)) Feb 09 09:13:01 mango_make use stylesheets Feb 09 09:17:10 IMO if Nokia decided that neither Symbian or MeeGo was the future, Android would be a better choice than Windows Phone Feb 09 09:17:33 with Android they could create their own 100% nokia UX on top of vanilla Android (like HTC did with Sense) Feb 09 09:17:40 what if it's Meego + Alien Dalvik? Feb 09 09:19:05 I wonder how hard it would be to go beyond Alien Dalvik and produce a genuine Feb 09 09:19:15 also, did anyone consider a Blackberry - Nokia merger ? Feb 09 09:19:23 genuine Dalvik for Maemo or MeeGo that could run Android apps as-is Feb 09 09:19:29 without needing to change the Android app at all Feb 09 09:19:44 or a Nokia+HP working together to pwn the US enterprise phone market? Feb 09 09:20:02 Didn't HP just buy Palm? Feb 09 09:20:15 sure they did, and? Feb 09 09:23:36 If it were possible, I would suggest that one way forward for Nokia would be to do something a bit like what Apple did with OSX whereby they make future MeeGo phones but at the same time bolt-on some Symbian compatibility libraries to allow all the vast bulk of Symbian apps to run on top Feb 09 09:24:25 which overcomes the chicken-and-egg of needing apps to get consumers interested and needing consumers to get app developers interested Feb 09 09:24:51 given today's CPUs , i guess a symbian vm is not outta question Feb 09 09:24:54 jonwil, they could. but they have to decide how many developers to put on that, that could be doing other things Feb 09 09:25:26 that woudl be a killer wouldnt it Feb 09 09:25:38 Plain Linux kernel with a Dalvik AND a Symbian VM. Feb 09 09:26:00 the idea is that it would give them all the good things about Symbian but none of the bad things that seem to be holding Symbian back Feb 09 09:26:26 i.e. all the things that make Symbian worse as a smartphone OS than Android or iOS or Windows Phone Feb 09 09:29:05 johnx: OMG, tmo comes to irc! Feb 09 09:29:33 erm... Feb 09 09:30:17 RST38h, Heh. Are you saying this isn't the place to hold my lecture on opportunity cost and how one-off dead-end projects are a bad idea? Feb 09 09:30:53 how are they a bad idea? Feb 09 09:31:10 <-- still likes the m5 UX more than any other "smart"phone UX he tried so far... Feb 09 09:31:38 I do love the N900 Feb 09 09:31:42 I kind of agree ... Feb 09 09:31:46 ruskie, how are one-off dead-end projects a bad idea? Uhm, is that really the question? Feb 09 09:32:05 and who says they are dead-end... Feb 09 09:32:07 if there were just a few tiny refinements it would be extremely attractive too :) Feb 09 09:32:07 The N900 is the best smartphone ever made for a geek like me Feb 09 09:32:22 ruskie, I was mostly talking about a symbian emulation layer for meego Feb 09 09:32:54 woof Feb 09 09:33:02 You mean Qt? Feb 09 09:33:16 alterego, well Qt wasn't is symbian for a long time ;) Feb 09 09:33:27 You could call it "Syne" Feb 09 09:33:37 Well, do it :P Feb 09 09:34:12 if they had Qt from a long time ago they could have went with something like that... Feb 09 09:34:32 RST38h: (beef?) whatever the carnivore moocow prefers Feb 09 09:34:49 trx, Thanks! works a charm! Feb 09 09:35:03 RST38h: I guess you like eating your colleagues Feb 09 09:35:14 trx2, Thanks! works a charm! Feb 09 09:35:39 but with it only being a recent addition they would first need a decent app-pool... Feb 09 09:36:23 johnx: No, I am saying that I am seeing the same dumb "analysis" I am skipping on tmo Feb 09 09:36:46 johnx: "Let Elop adopt WP7 and make a Symbian simulation layer on top!" Feb 09 09:36:59 johnx: "Let Elop run WebOS inside Meego!" Feb 09 09:37:03 johnx: etc. Feb 09 09:37:10 for a phone I still consider S40 to be the better(best?)... UX so far... Feb 09 09:37:29 I don't acknowledge that there exist "smart"phones... Feb 09 09:37:33 S40 is a sad little sandbox Feb 09 09:37:41 but it works reliably... Feb 09 09:37:48 ruskie, I think you might have ended up in the wrong channel ... ;) Feb 09 09:37:50 It does work well Feb 09 09:37:51 Not always, depends on the phone model Feb 09 09:38:07 until such devices exist that can read my mind and do things smartly based on that... it's not smart... it's dumb... Feb 09 09:38:15 I think the late models do work though Feb 09 09:38:37 my mom has a n6300 iirc... great device... no issues Feb 09 09:38:54 A phone that can read you mind and do smart things based on that would be more clever than you. Feb 09 09:39:01 Are you sure you want that? :P Feb 09 09:39:14 I still own my 3210, my first ever mobile Feb 09 09:39:23 Heh Feb 09 09:39:27 it still beats the hell out of 95% of current smartphones as a phone Feb 09 09:39:31 I've used a n5110 for over 6 years... and still have it Feb 09 09:39:39 The 3210 was awesome Feb 09 09:39:46 still original battery... still get a weeks worth of standby Feb 09 09:40:10 it worked... no issues at all Feb 09 09:40:16 I had an 8210 too Feb 09 09:40:29 and that's what I expect from a phone... a no-nosense device Feb 09 09:40:36 I liked that phone. though there was a known issue with the screen Feb 09 09:41:05 I consider things like "smart"phones just another way of saying tablet computer Feb 09 09:41:11 hell, elop is a fool, complaining about "only one meego device out in the wild in 2011" but same time to me it looks like either Nokia is simply ignoring the handset UX development by paying some poor 4 developers to somehow make a meego work on N900, or they wre even stupid enough to develop a supposedly open OS in parallel behind Nokia walls Feb 09 09:41:36 for which a phone centric UX does NOT work and NEVER will... Feb 09 09:42:24 my n900 is primarily used as a basic level phone... ocassionaly use it for other things... but that is rare Feb 09 09:42:26 n900 port of meego is done not by nokia Feb 09 09:42:39 ...while aplle probably has 4000 and windows 40000 devels working for years to roll out a polished new OS version Feb 09 09:42:41 but by people that are not related to nokia in any way Feb 09 09:43:43 ruskie, this is why devices like the old communicators are popular among people who used em Feb 09 09:43:46 X-Fade: bergie around ? Feb 09 09:43:50 closed, its a straightforward easy phone Feb 09 09:43:50 jacekowski, errr, they're at very least paid by Nokia Feb 09 09:43:53 open, its a tablet Feb 09 09:44:13 stskeeps definitely is Feb 09 09:44:27 johnx: no, we really arent :P Feb 09 09:44:43 alterego, well, *some* are :) Feb 09 09:44:58 johnx: some are doing it in their spare time (that work at Nokia) and have the ability to help with the closed components. Feb 09 09:45:05 johnx: no they are not Feb 09 09:45:10 those legendary 4 that almost lost their mind, facing the daunting task Feb 09 09:45:19 nidO: i'm one of them :P still love my 9300i Feb 09 09:45:20 johnx: the N900 adaptation is not funded by anyone. Feb 09 09:45:38 johnx: it's a hobby project. Feb 09 09:45:44 never had the chance to use a communicator but loved the idea/design... Feb 09 09:45:48 johnx: you should watch stskeeps talk on fosdem Feb 09 09:45:55 alterego, I think I really got the wrong impression then. sorry about that Feb 09 09:45:57 alterego, I thought the n900 was the reference platform for meego... Feb 09 09:46:03 ruskie: :) Feb 09 09:46:27 It's a reference platform, in that it'as OMAP and has a display .. Feb 09 09:46:42 alterego: good luck in getting a hobby project an official Nokia and/or MeeGo sticker Feb 09 09:46:52 alterego: now that's bs Feb 09 09:46:52 well frankly don't really care since I dislike the meego phone UX... Feb 09 09:47:10 achipa: well, it already has an official MeeGo sticker what do you mean? Feb 09 09:47:23 ruskie: +1 Feb 09 09:47:41 Yeah, I don't really like the UX either. Feb 09 09:47:43 who gave it the meego sticker ? Feb 09 09:47:48 alterego: ^ Feb 09 09:48:06 achipa: why do you think it doesn't have one? Feb 09 09:48:16 I mean either the IVI or the Netbook UX could work better imho... Feb 09 09:48:16 The work is hosted under meego.com Feb 09 09:48:29 The N900 _is_ one of the reference devices .. Feb 09 09:48:50 Along with ncdk, icdk and aava .. Feb 09 09:49:18 dudes, this isn't about stickers, this is about *massive* manpower needed to build and DEBUG/FIELDTEST a new OS Feb 09 09:49:27 alterego: I'm saying you don't get a meego sticker or the name of "Nokia N900 Hardware Adaptation Team" if you have nothing to do with Nokia Feb 09 09:49:45 achipa: why not? Feb 09 09:49:54 What has Nokia got to do with anything? Feb 09 09:49:59 achipa, Nokia already said that they don't plan on supporting MeeGo on the N900 iirc... Feb 09 09:50:03 officially Feb 09 09:50:21 meh, missing the point Feb 09 09:50:33 Yes, Nokia's MeeGo, not the community built/run MeeGo that is the adaptation .. Feb 09 09:50:33 uuuhhh... do we have to go over this for the millionth time ? Feb 09 09:51:02 * ruskie considers if he can splurge on a touchbookv2 this year... Feb 09 09:51:07 alterego: well if you put 'nokia' on your team name nokia legal is not going to be happy Feb 09 09:51:11 Think of MeeGo as being Ubuntu for your phone Feb 09 09:51:21 achipa: so? Feb 09 09:51:35 Doc: I doubt Elop knows N900 exists Feb 09 09:51:38 At least that's the meego adaptation. Feb 09 09:51:40 alterego: BS Feb 09 09:51:41 alterego: so ? Feb 09 09:52:01 Doc: It is quite possible he does not know Harmattan exists Feb 09 09:52:11 achipa: it's called the Nokia N900 what else would you call a team of people getting the hardware to work? Feb 09 09:52:11 RST38h: I dunno if he knows about N900, evidently he knows about a Nokia meego device Feb 09 09:52:24 Doc: The quesiton is, what he means by it Feb 09 09:52:34 Doc: Notice that it does not have to be Harmattan Feb 09 09:52:49 alterego: I obviously can't tell you what Nokia is or isn't paying, just can appeal to your common sense - but if you want to forego that... Feb 09 09:52:55 I know and even think that's not HE for sure Feb 09 09:53:50 but then how's he expecting to see Nokia meego devices pop out of nowhere while some fuzzy crowd not related to Nokia is developing the OS? Feb 09 09:54:25 Doc: Once again, he may have already written Meego off. You simply do not know. Feb 09 09:54:34 this means either Nokia has a secret meego devel crew, or the "official" visible one is way too underpowered Feb 09 09:54:46 bots similarly evil Feb 09 09:55:03 * jonwil wonders what the plan for N900 GPS on MeeGo is Feb 09 09:55:05 It is pointless to second guess things Feb 09 09:55:50 it is pointless to discuss economic and management things here, it seems Feb 09 09:56:06 Doc: Or anywhere else Feb 09 09:56:26 I'm not talking about future, I state the obvious about the past and present time Feb 09 09:56:26 Doc: Because none of us have any idea what is going on and what Nokia management is thinking Feb 09 09:56:29 DocScrutinizer: I think most people overestimate reference implementations Feb 09 09:56:48 (in terms of how it relates to actual products) Feb 09 09:57:15 Doc: There are several things that can be deduced by carefully comparing facts, but they are simply not enough to create the full picture Feb 09 09:57:28 RST38h: so what? makes that their lack of open meego support and a clear migration path any more sound? Feb 09 09:57:28 I think the #1 thing the community wants from Nokia regarding MeeGo on N900 is support for the closed source bits Feb 09 09:57:37 RST38h: but why create the full picture when you can... speculate !!! :) Feb 09 09:58:22 Doc: Who told you they are interested in providing you with an open platform and a migration path? Feb 09 09:58:30 jonwil: IIUC that is sort-of agreed upon (this would mean drivers following kernels and such) Feb 09 09:58:39 We need to figure out how to setup a game like 'fantasy football' except for phones and phone OS marketshare. "Fantasy CEO" or something Feb 09 09:58:39 Doc: This certainly has no direct relation to the number of devices they can sell Feb 09 09:58:49 RST38h: who says that's a point of any interest at all? Feb 09 09:58:54 johnx: This has been done kong time ago Feb 09 09:59:04 johnx: The site was named fuckedupcompany.com Feb 09 09:59:10 RST38h, right. but it needs to be standardized enough to bet on Feb 09 09:59:23 johnx: I think they had betting, deadpool style Feb 09 09:59:31 (!!) Feb 09 09:59:36 RST38h: I guess you simply missed my initial statement about elop being a fool, and why Feb 09 09:59:37 I did not know that ... Feb 09 09:59:58 Doc: Anyone who calls Elop a fool is...mm...shortsighted Feb 09 10:00:18 Doc: He may not have your personal interests in mind, but fool he is not, sorry Feb 09 10:00:23 anyone who calls me shortsighted is ignorant Feb 09 10:01:14 DocScrutinizer, ignorant of the fact that you're actually farsighted? or is it a stigmatism? Feb 09 10:01:43 RST38h: sorry, your problem seems to be *you* got only our interests in mind, while my statement about elop was exclusivle Nokia future centric Feb 09 10:03:00 you can't reasonably moan about slow meego progress while same time not throwing any manpower on it Feb 09 10:03:19 Mmm...No, he is not getting it. Thinking it is personal instead :) Feb 09 10:04:26 afaik meego progress is on schedule Feb 09 10:04:47 1.2 Feb 09 10:05:03 meh Feb 09 10:05:05 johnx: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://fuckedupcompany.com Feb 09 10:05:32 RST38h, yeah. I remembered them and the news about dead/dying companies. I didn't know they had betting to go with it Feb 09 10:05:36 .oO(but not all stages are developed... netbook UX won't get luv till +1.3) Feb 09 10:06:10 chem|st: from where I am watching, the netbook UI seems to be the only one getting regular love :) Feb 09 10:07:16 RST38h: uhh show me you place then ;) Feb 09 10:07:57 * RST38h is really interested to see what the tablet UI will look like Feb 09 10:08:22 actualy I dont care... coming from ION the netbookUX is crap... Feb 09 10:08:25 look how long it took maemo to ripe to diablo, and how long it took Nokia to make that basically ridiculous augment from diablo to fremantle, and even for that they needed massive support from a benevolent community and aren't really there yet. Now Nokia thought they can migrate from maemo fremantle to meego, with the original maemo team split ahalf, and end with a prime time ready handset UX in less than 12 months?? c'mon Feb 09 10:08:58 RST38h: it will look like the netbookUX as it is already without any keyboard interaction... Feb 09 10:10:46 RST38h: tested it only for 20min BUT I guess it is much more useful with mouse or touchscreen (normal netbooks do not have) Feb 09 10:11:15 * chem|st is back to work Feb 09 10:15:27 both joggler and archos9 are examples of community projects using netbook-ux Feb 09 10:19:17 chem|st: so that stunning tablet UI demo was just a demo? Feb 09 10:19:47 Doc: I think my main point would be tat they do not really need any community to move meego forward Feb 09 10:20:09 Doc: They can do it in private Feb 09 10:20:31 Doc: So, all this "need community support" thing is kinda not an issue Feb 09 10:25:14 38: sorry no highlight on doc: here Feb 09 10:36:47 X-Fade, I sent a package yesterday to autobuilder and its binaries are not available on extras-devel yet... could you take a look? this is the request: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/pyside_1.0.0~beta5-1maemo1/ Feb 09 10:54:42 RST38h: that was nothing meego base or are you refering to s/t else? link? Feb 09 10:59:26 chem|st: It was delivered as a "Meego Tablet concept UI" Feb 09 10:59:37 chem|st: Apparently, it wasn't real just a mockup Feb 09 11:01:35 RST38h: the one with the bubbles they also showed on the n900 (water style...)? Feb 09 11:08:38 hi people, good days Feb 09 11:41:21 hi there Feb 09 11:41:32 I have a problem with opencv on maemo Feb 09 11:41:36 I get: Feb 09 11:41:47 OpenCV Error: Assertion failed (code) in imwrite_, file highgui/loadsave.cpp, line 294 Feb 09 11:41:51 it is only on maemo Feb 09 11:42:01 the same code works on the other systems Feb 09 11:42:19 are there any GPS navigation apps for the N810, with actual routing and spoken direction, aside from the trial one included? Feb 09 11:45:47 There's Maemo Mapper, but I think the server that served driving directions is down now. Feb 09 11:46:13 And probably not likely to be resuscitated. Feb 09 11:46:20 :( Feb 09 11:53:31 buy a n900! Feb 09 11:54:53 If you can ... Feb 09 11:55:27 another rotting tooth? Feb 09 11:55:40 N900 doesn't really fit my (well, my sister's) needs, nor my price target. on the other hand i probably should have got an Archos 5 for the same price Feb 09 11:56:57 there is Navit... but it doesn't even seem to start :\ Feb 09 12:00:07 what's your price target then? Feb 09 12:00:16 €100 Feb 09 12:00:22 Maybe someone will get "google maps navigation for android" running under that N900/Maemo/MeeGo Dalvik port Feb 09 12:00:24 i've seen a few used n900's go for less than 200 Feb 09 12:00:34 ok, that's pretty low then even for an used n900 Feb 09 12:00:59 but it's the typical N810 or Archos 5 price, actually i paid the N810 €87 Feb 09 12:01:29 uhm Navit fails on wanting libcrypto, i guess i'll have to hunt for that one Feb 09 12:01:36 the irony is that N810 is losing support fairly quickly as is with N900 Feb 09 12:01:59 Damn. I will be very dissapointed if Nokia do decide to ditch meego. Feb 09 12:02:21 I've been hoping for a meego phone to save me from having to get another Android phone :-/ Feb 09 12:02:27 * alterego sighs Feb 09 12:02:31 the reuters "news" is just a rehash of the old eldar twitter post :p Feb 09 12:02:41 if you were talking about that Feb 09 12:02:49 akikhaw: nah, the memo that's doing the rounds Feb 09 12:02:51 Where do you guys come up with this shit .. Feb 09 12:02:59 alterego: Engadget :) Feb 09 12:03:04 Heh Feb 09 12:03:11 words from the grapevine :p Feb 09 12:03:13 Aha, I see that the memo has finally reached the masses Feb 09 12:03:14 alterego: Hey, I said "if". Feb 09 12:03:28 ccooke: even just talking about it is retarded. Feb 09 12:03:36 * alterego wonders off. Feb 09 12:03:38 alterego: That's nice. Feb 09 12:04:09 alterego: Was that a typo? =) Feb 09 12:04:11 is there a state-of-the-art screen rotator for the N810, or are they all the same? like, something that rotates depending on keyboard state (i've seen at least two of those), and that can keep the Maemo buttons on the short side of the screen Feb 09 12:04:17 Come back when you've got proof, whining about "if"s is stupid. Feb 09 12:04:23 LjL: No. Feb 09 12:04:29 alterego: Try learning to read while you're gone, huh? Feb 09 12:04:35 RST38h: no, lapse in spelling :P Feb 09 12:04:39 * RST38h sighs Feb 09 12:04:46 ccooke: read what? Feb 09 12:04:47 alterego: The lapse worked =) Feb 09 12:04:57 alterego: there's this word "if" that actually means something :-) Feb 09 12:05:09 RST38h: does that mean i might as well get the first that shows up on google? Feb 09 12:05:11 I think its a bit of a given that nokia is currently in a vulnerable state, any little media persuasions may seem plausible to the average joe from some random reporter without enough sources to backup his/her FUD Feb 09 12:05:14 ccooke: Sure it does, but you're just spreading FUD, Feb 09 12:05:31 ccooke: As in "If granny had balls, she would be granddaddy" Feb 09 12:05:38 ccooke: and in case you didn't know .. #meego is over there -> Feb 09 12:06:15 the memo means that nokia maybe start some fuzzy WP7/android phones to keep up the marketshare till meego is ready... Feb 09 12:06:21 no a big deal... Feb 09 12:06:34 eeek. "nothing was found for libcrypto in OS2008" :( Feb 09 12:06:37 chem|st: That would be at least interesting, if it turned out to be true. Feb 09 12:06:55 has anyone had problem with saving images with opencv? Feb 09 12:06:58 ccooke: it is the least interesting to any of us here I guess Feb 09 12:07:09 chem|st: Agreed. Feb 09 12:07:20 chem|st: Meego is actually given just a couple of sentences in the memo, saying that it is really really late Feb 09 12:07:27 nokia already have their hands full with both symbian and maemo/meego. That's what caused them to have such big messes Feb 09 12:07:40 chem|st: And there are no definite plans laid out for Meego OR for WP7/Android Feb 09 12:07:41 I didn't think it was late .. Feb 09 12:07:57 neither will I buy android/WP7 phones in my life nor iPranks Feb 09 12:08:49 Especially if they're Nokia ones .. Feb 09 12:09:08 * ccooke has an android phone currently - mainly because he wanted to try it out. On the whole, I much prefer the n900. Of course, I let my wife steal mine, now, so... :-/ Feb 09 12:09:16 chem|st: I agree! Feb 09 12:09:23 God, MeeGo will be on version 4 by the time Nokia have customised an Android instance .. Feb 09 12:09:25 I will never buy an iPhone or Windows Phone 7 Feb 09 12:09:35 ccooke: oh dang, what are you going to do now? Feb 09 12:09:40 (Android does have huge numbers of apps, but... at least the models I've seen just aren't as nice to use as *phones*) Feb 09 12:09:46 as the looks of now I will buy n900s as long as they are available Feb 09 12:09:47 alterego: Why customize? Release it as it is, cheap! Feb 09 12:10:01 RST38h: do you honestly see that happening? :P Feb 09 12:10:10 korhojoa: I have a spare broken n900. Probably find someone to fix the usb socket eventually :-) Feb 09 12:10:16 alterego: Yes. I have got vivid, unhealthy imagination Feb 09 12:10:20 ah, the damn microusb Feb 09 12:10:25 Heh Feb 09 12:14:06 is there any command that can reliably tell me the current maemo version? Feb 09 12:14:27 uname -a? Feb 09 12:14:49 RST38h: not kernel version Feb 09 12:15:16 Venemo_N900: there's the system info applet in the settings. Feb 09 12:15:17 Unfortunately no. Feb 09 12:15:27 Venemo_N900: ... also, you can probably just check the output of dpkg -l Feb 09 12:15:27 ccooke: that's not the point Feb 09 12:15:36 You're still talking about maemo 4 vs. maemo 5 right? Feb 09 12:15:42 alterego: right Feb 09 12:15:52 Then unfortunately I don't think there is a way. Feb 09 12:16:04 ah. v4. That's rather different. Feb 09 12:16:16 You need to target the lowest common denominator for each of your dependencies. Feb 09 12:16:34 Venemo_N900: what sort of granularity are you after? Feb 09 12:16:36 alterego: I could use /etc/dpkg/origins/ but they're the same Feb 09 12:16:43 Heh Feb 09 12:17:14 ccooke: I want to add libqtm-sensors dependency when compiling for Maemo 5 and I don't want it when compiling for Maemo 4 Feb 09 12:17:48 Venemo_N900: so you need a method of determining which you're on, from a command line. But you only need the major version, right? Feb 09 12:18:01 ccooke: correct Feb 09 12:18:08 ccooke: not going to work in a control file .. Feb 09 12:18:19 alterego: nah! Feb 09 12:18:19 alterego: argh, point Feb 09 12:18:35 no need to bother with the control fle Feb 09 12:18:49 okay, so a script would do? Feb 09 12:18:51 I can use the rules file to execute any command Feb 09 12:19:07 Hrm, yeah I guess that might work. Feb 09 12:19:11 Venemo_N900: okay, got it. check /proc Feb 09 12:19:13 and then use substitution variables and dh_gencontrol Feb 09 12:19:13 Not sure how extras will handle that. Feb 09 12:19:38 Venemo_N900: the pseudofiles for the n810's graphics hardware are different to the n900's.. Feb 09 12:20:01 ccooke: yes, but they're probably not on the sdk Feb 09 12:20:04 (among other differences) Feb 09 12:20:18 Just check to see if apt is using fremantle repositories or diablo :P Feb 09 12:20:25 alterego: *grin* Feb 09 12:20:26 ccooke: I'm thinking of simply checking for libqtm-sensors... Feb 09 12:20:39 Venemo_N900: well, that would be the _proper_ way to do it. Feb 09 12:20:50 Venemo_N900: do an apt-cache lookup or it, see if it's installable? Feb 09 12:20:51 alterego: hey, that's good but on MADDE there is no apt at all. Feb 09 12:21:10 Venemo_N900: what has madde got to do with it? Feb 09 12:21:24 alterego: what if I compile under MADDE? Feb 09 12:21:41 You're not packaging under madde though are you? Feb 09 12:21:50 All the mobility APIs are already installed. Feb 09 12:21:59 not atm, but I may. Feb 09 12:22:09 Venemo_N900: don't, seriously don't :P Feb 09 12:22:22 anyway, I think I'll check for the existence of the mobility apis Feb 09 12:22:23 No one uses madde for packaging .. I don't even think it's possible. Feb 09 12:22:32 If you want to create packages use scratchbox or extras Feb 09 12:22:46 alterego: It is well possible. while I was on windows, I could do it. Feb 09 12:23:03 alterego: 'mad dpkg-buildpackage -sa -S' Feb 09 12:23:15 Oh, cool Feb 09 12:24:11 so, gimme some shell command that can determine whether a package exists and will also work on MADDE Feb 09 12:24:31 Neah Feb 09 12:24:37 That's just silly. Feb 09 12:24:45 probably checking for the existence of /usr/lib/libqtmwhatever.so maybe the best Feb 09 12:24:54 Pick a packaging target and work with that. Feb 09 12:24:58 I suggest scratchbox Feb 09 12:25:13 If you're using madde, well, you can't use madde for diablo, so what is the point? Feb 09 12:25:33 anyone should be able to package it. even users of MADDE on Windows. Feb 09 12:25:36 Venemo_N900: but if it's not there then the autobuilder wont import it. Feb 09 12:26:10 alterego: so, back to checking for maemo version somehow. Feb 09 12:26:32 Or just package qtm for diablo Feb 09 12:26:59 it wouldn't work Feb 09 12:27:06 n810 has no accelerometer afaik Feb 09 12:27:10 Well, that's a different problem. Feb 09 12:27:54 alterego: worst case, I make a separate control file Feb 09 12:28:12 m'hmm Feb 09 12:30:48 but I wanna avoid that... Feb 09 12:31:21 isn't there an mp-diablo-*-pr package? like on fremantle? Feb 09 12:43:50 ( is there any command that can reliably tell me the current maemo version?) set|grep MAEMO Feb 09 12:44:36 err grep OSSO_PROD Feb 09 12:45:03 OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_FULL_NAME='Maemo 5' Feb 09 12:45:04 OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_NAME='Maemo 5' Feb 09 12:45:06 OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_VERSION=3.2010.02-8 Feb 09 12:45:16 DocScrutinizer: will that work in the sdk? Feb 09 12:45:29 ummppf Feb 09 12:45:43 NFC Feb 09 12:45:58 DocScrutinizer: remember, we're talking about a way to determine this at compile time Feb 09 12:46:05 what's the product version of MAEMO in sdk anyway? Feb 09 12:46:29 There isn't an OSSO_blah Feb 09 12:46:55 There is an /etc/maemo_version Feb 09 12:47:01 sure, as sdk is NOT a true maemo environment Feb 09 12:47:37 alterego: there's no such thing on N900 though. Feb 09 12:47:42 Oh neat, /etc/operator_settings Feb 09 12:47:54 That could be useful. Feb 09 12:48:26 :j Feb 09 12:48:37 t900:~# osso-product-info Feb 09 12:48:39 OSSO_PRODUCT_HARDWARE='RX-51' Feb 09 12:48:40 OSSO_PRODUCT_NAME='N900' Feb 09 12:48:42 OSSO_PRODUCT_FULL_NAME='Nokia N900' Feb 09 12:48:43 OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_NAME='Maemo 5' Feb 09 12:48:49 NFC if that works any better, in sdk Feb 09 12:48:54 DocScrutinizer: doesn't exist in scratchbox ;) Feb 09 12:49:48 yeah, as there *is* no true veritable maemo release version in sdk Feb 09 12:50:17 you can try to get version of arm kernel, of arbitrary libs, of dunnowhat Feb 09 12:50:18 I'd use /etc/maemo_version Feb 09 12:50:37 alterego: sounds okay Feb 09 12:50:46 DocScrutinizer: thank you Feb 09 12:51:01 * DocScrutinizer does a "echo fusckdup_by_doc >/etc/maemo_version" on alterego's sdk Feb 09 12:51:10 :P Feb 09 12:51:16 Venemo_N900: wont work in madde though. Feb 09 12:51:36 Not sure if it's in DIABLO either .. Feb 09 12:51:49 alterego: hehe. Feb 09 12:52:25 Venemo_N900: you need to test for the particular property you're interested in, if you want to do compiletime ifdefs or whatever Feb 09 12:52:48 DocScrutinizer: his problem isn't compile time, that's fine. Feb 09 12:52:52 His problem is packaging :/ Feb 09 12:52:55 DocScrutinizer: #ifdefs are already there in the code and they work Feb 09 12:53:04 if you want to use accelerometer, then it's nonsense to test for maemo version Feb 09 12:53:10 He wants the M5 version to depend on a library that M4 doesn't have. Feb 09 12:53:16 And compile on both. Feb 09 12:53:28 so test if the lib is there Feb 09 12:53:32 simple as that Feb 09 12:53:41 Not when he's using the auto builder. Feb 09 12:53:55 uhuh Feb 09 12:54:34 so testing if there's "fsckdup_by_doc" in /etc/maemo_version is any simpler? Feb 09 12:54:55 nah Feb 09 12:56:03 if you want to know about A, don't ask about B Feb 09 12:56:25 DocScrutinizer: I just wanna determine if I'm on fremantle or not. Feb 09 12:56:37 you're on sdk! Feb 09 12:56:44 right Feb 09 12:56:56 sdk is probably ubuntu Feb 09 12:57:07 fedora for me Feb 09 12:57:29 so checking for kernel version is totally worthless. Feb 09 12:57:43 it would find the fc14 kernel :P Feb 09 12:58:04 you either need to define what you're planning to do, by some config file, and teher you are free to have a '#def maemo-version 5' Feb 09 12:58:37 or you check if your sdk has some support for any particular bit, like .h for a lib Feb 09 12:59:29 DocScrutinizer: the problem with the latter is that it'll not work on autobuilder Feb 09 12:59:44 DocScrutinizer: I'll do something like your former idea Feb 09 12:59:52 yes, that's why it's nonsense per se Feb 09 13:00:26 an sdk may support maemo 3 4 5 6 meego and maybe even sybian Feb 09 13:00:47 you can't do conditional compiles based on properties of sdk Feb 09 13:01:06 you can, but it's nonsense Feb 09 13:01:17 DocScrutinizer: only one target can be selected at any time on an sdk. but you're right :) Feb 09 13:01:47 then test for the target, by whatever means the sdk provides Feb 09 13:03:03 I'd go for proper makefile defs, then 'make maemo5', 'make maemo4' whatever Feb 09 13:03:05 DocScrutinizer: I'll just make a separate control file Feb 09 13:03:10 yep Feb 09 13:16:21 DocScrutinizer: no messing with makefile needed Feb 09 13:16:36 DocScrutinizer: qmake does that for me already Feb 09 13:16:45 mhm, fine Feb 09 13:16:49 DocScrutinizer: this question was just about packaging Feb 09 13:17:13 so who's doing packaging for you? ;-) Feb 09 13:17:33 DocScrutinizer: I already did. Feb 09 13:18:03 DocScrutinizer: I however didn't realize that I'll need a separate control file for diablo Feb 09 13:18:48 and separate destination files so you don't overwrite previously built pkgs for !diablo Feb 09 13:19:09 so either you do a mere cd Feb 09 13:19:25 or you set a env var or sth like that Feb 09 13:20:15 or yu have a monster job that builds for all targets at once Feb 09 13:50:17 yay, my ICD policy logging plugin is giving me some good information Feb 09 13:51:13 and not only was I able to find a convenience store to sell me some Coca-Cola but my phone passed through various changes in network state in the process Feb 09 13:54:15 Now I just need to find someone with access to 2 different WiFi networks to gain the missing pieces of info and I can attempt to write my new tool Feb 09 13:54:46 in the mean time, I will continue to work on reverse engineering libiap_conndlg.so Feb 09 13:56:25 morning gentlemen Feb 09 13:57:16 morning Feb 09 13:58:46 reverse engineering connectivity UI is fun :P Feb 09 13:59:01 jonwil: if you're doing ICD2 interesting work I have a icd2 network plugin that more or less replaces libicd_network_wlan.so and its propietary eap counterpart Feb 09 13:59:17 (using wpa_supplicant instead of osso-wlan-security) Feb 09 13:59:22 http://git.maemo.org/git/libicd-wpa/ Feb 09 14:00:42 so its a drop-in replacement that replaces libicd_network_wlan.so, libicd_network_eap.so and osso-wlan-security package with your new plugin and the wpa_supplicant package? Feb 09 14:00:50 hardly drop-in, but yes. Feb 09 14:01:13 (it requires custom UI, IAP setting fields don't match, as mine's are just wpa_supplicant ones) Feb 09 14:01:45 but it has all the features of the Nokia setup? Feb 09 14:01:56 that I think of, yes. And more. Feb 09 14:02:09 (for ex all of wpasupplicant's protocols) Feb 09 14:02:50 I wonder why Nokia went to the trouble of writing osso-wlan-security instead of just using wpa_supplicant Feb 09 14:02:58 my guess: symbian code. Feb 09 14:03:09 when the Eduroam/PAP mess happened, Symbian was affected too. Feb 09 14:04:23 My guess is that lots of the closed source middle-ware on Maemo is based on Symbian code (which is also closed) Feb 09 14:04:31 so things like icd and csd Feb 09 14:05:35 note that most of it was made for the 770. at that time, I could accept that the OSS alternatives you know these days where not fully usable. Feb 09 14:05:51 (well, not csd) Feb 09 14:06:25 yeah thats also true Feb 09 14:07:22 oh, oh. Feb 09 14:07:37 * javispedro grabs popcorn and heads straight to tmo after seeing Engadget today. Feb 09 14:07:58 javispedro: mostly screaming, some ritual suicides Feb 09 14:08:11 javispedro: even spilled over here this morning Feb 09 14:08:12 damn, Symbian source code was available but now its not Feb 09 14:08:37 jonwil: still is, just need ot ask the right people Feb 09 14:08:51 who are the "right people"? Feb 09 14:09:30 hehe Feb 09 14:09:40 javispedro: dalvik thing? Feb 09 14:09:52 do you know the name of the h-e-n irc channel? Feb 09 14:09:57 N900s are going to be in service for a long time if a slate is Nokia's first MeeGo device. Feb 09 14:10:03 jacekowski: nope, n9 cancelled thing. Feb 09 14:10:18 GAN900: slate? where do you get that from? Feb 09 14:10:34 DocScrutinizer, thx Feb 09 14:10:38 yw Feb 09 14:10:39 javispedro: woot? Feb 09 14:10:49 link Feb 09 14:10:49 http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/09/nokia-kills-n9-00-its-first-meego-handset/ Feb 09 14:10:57 can you tinyurlit Feb 09 14:11:06 my X are currently broken Feb 09 14:11:29 http://tinyurl.com/n9murder Feb 09 14:12:14 browsing Engadget without X11 is severely unrecommended though. Feb 09 14:12:34 Frankly I think that spells trouble for Nokia. Feb 09 14:12:37 omg. memo from Elop. Feb 09 14:12:59 I guess I will need to start abusing the popcorn I was stocking for MWC today. Feb 09 14:13:19 will there be anything to replace N9? Feb 09 14:13:28 N9 Feb 09 14:13:35 ther will be no N9 Feb 09 14:13:36 (-01 vs. -00) Feb 09 14:13:38 ah Feb 09 14:13:59 yeah, this isn't confusing at all Feb 09 14:14:07 and it could be worse, it could be rumors Feb 09 14:14:08 wait... Feb 09 14:14:38 Nokia the burning platform! Feb 09 14:14:56 Clearly, they have to pee into it to try and stop the flames instead of peeing in their pants to get warm. Feb 09 14:15:15 probably nokia will announce that "fuck it, we'll go back to making rubber boots" Feb 09 14:16:36 heh. Feb 09 14:16:41 It's better to be outside the tent pissing in when the tent is on fire? Feb 09 14:17:24 this Elop's guy is quite a Apple fanboy. Feb 09 14:17:40 "our platform is on fire, but we can kill the fire if we team up - better than without a platform in freezing water" might be one attitude Feb 09 14:18:38 it's hard to say if elop is total psycho or just scaring company folks first so that big, but less drastic changes than assumed can be accepted Feb 09 14:19:01 derf: Apparently, it is better to drawn than to burn Feb 09 14:19:44 derf: And yes, I think it was supposed to be some kind of those evangelical sermon stories, which make a point while not being real =) Feb 09 14:20:06 big organizational reorg and dealing with fire would seem the most sane approach imho, but if elop goes to please american investors, doom is inevitable Feb 09 14:20:38 * RST38h m00s for d00msday Feb 09 14:21:03 * javispedro waits for MeegoBoy to appear on #meego Feb 09 14:21:16 javispedro: you pervert =) Feb 09 14:21:50 the same oil rig story was told by alahuhta that was in executive board of nokia from 1993 to 2004 when he moved to lead kone corporation at 2006 Feb 09 14:22:10 ... and elop and alahuhta sat next to each other on weekend in an ice hockey match. Feb 09 14:22:50 any clue why my N810 might be ignoring the light sensor? i have installed "advanced-backlight", but i removed it later Feb 09 14:23:11 I e-mailed Stephen Elop this morning about the Nokia N900 and Maemo, with the opinion that I'm definitely more happy with the N900 than an iPhone or Android phone: Feb 09 14:23:14 http://blog.mmn-o.se/2011/02/09/mail-to-nokias-ceo-stephen-elop-about-n900/ Feb 09 14:23:41 He (or his secretary...) responded with a thank you for the note, so apparently it seems to reach someone. Feb 09 14:24:38 I recommend people simply e-mailing their opinions on how Nokia can compete with free software against the iOS/Android platform Feb 09 14:25:02 MMN-o: Right. That'll change Friday Feb 09 14:25:11 ;-) Feb 09 14:25:28 what's all this "n9 canceled" chatter Feb 09 14:25:58 what Elop should do is like Amadeo I of Spain did: tell everyone "this country is fscking ungovernable" then quit. Feb 09 14:26:06 pupnik: It's strongly rumoured that the OMAP3630 device (RM-680, probably) has been canned. Primarily cos releasing a single-core OMAP3 device in the middle of 2011 would be... sub-optimal for Nokia's new high-end OS offering Feb 09 14:26:16 Nokia switching to Android would be a major mistake IMO Feb 09 14:26:48 jonwil: Yup. Not nimble or cheap enough to compete in the h/w stakes. Feb 09 14:27:01 Jaffa: specially with OMAP5 being in the pipeline already Feb 09 14:27:25 Even if Nokia had killer UX and UI on top of Android, they would still become just another Android OEM with a bunch of proprietary blobs Feb 09 14:27:36 * javispedro remembers getting laughed a year ago when I suggested they should've gone it OMAP4 already.. Feb 09 14:27:52 and a bunch of guys on xda-developer trying to figure out how to get the Nokia blobs to work on their HTC or Samsung or Motorola Feb 09 14:28:46 MMN-o, which email address you send that email to? Feb 09 14:29:12 Uh, OMAP4 wasn't even available a year ago? Feb 09 14:29:58 derf: see, but there OMAP4 devices already :) Feb 09 14:31:26 javispedro: It does not count unless Amadeo shoots himself on national TV Feb 09 14:33:53 harmattan work/early hardware was just planned on basis of omap3 (I believe omap4 samples worth putting into a phone just weren't around early enough) Feb 09 14:34:54 RST38h: no TV back then (late 1800s). He did quickly escape the country, though. Feb 09 14:35:05 =) Feb 09 14:37:12 derf: for values of available... Feb 09 14:37:36 omap4 is still not a TI catalogue part, still there are devices popping up with it Feb 09 14:38:39 psycho_oreos: His name separated with dots. stephen.elop@nokia.com Feb 09 14:41:34 javispedro: eh... Feb 09 14:43:03 MMN-o: i have just sent an email to stephen elop similar to yours. let's hope that it has some impact. Feb 09 14:44:26 The more I use my N900, the more I am glad I didnt buy the HTC Desire Z or the Motorola Milestone (the only high-end GSM android handsets with physical keyboards AFAIK) Feb 09 14:44:27 We got a new wiki sysop! Feb 09 14:44:53 MEH http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/01/31/well-be-right-back/ Feb 09 14:45:15 Although I will say that the chess AI on the N900 is starting to make me want to throw my phone across the room Feb 09 14:45:37 Jaffa: i really like the omap3630 but i think we could have a lot of fun with a dual-core device as well Feb 09 14:45:42 sorry 3640 Feb 09 14:45:58 jonwil: too good? Feb 09 14:46:09 hope they go with a clicky keyboard instead of a mushy one though Feb 09 14:46:58 user-swappable, modular cameras and rear-batteries with integrated covers would be cool also Feb 09 14:47:01 something new Feb 09 14:48:32 tbh, its high time someone released a device with something as simple as user-swappable software, let alone hardware Feb 09 14:49:38 dominikb: Great! Encourage others as well. This kind of lobbying usually works pretty well. Feb 09 14:50:10 ^^ Feb 09 14:50:25 jonwil: heh. I am currently using a desire Z, and I can agree with you :-) Feb 09 14:51:22 (releasing a single-core OMAP3 device in the middle of 2011 would be... sub-optimal) it's like OM. finish 98%, rethink, start from scratch, rinse, repeat Feb 09 14:52:06 it's clearly more suboptimal to postpone / cancel N9-00 Feb 09 14:52:18 jonwil: Android *is* a slicker OS. The app model is much more mature and the security model has better user control. There's also the better responsiveness of a capacitive screen (although accuracy...) Everything *does* feel more polished. But it just doesn't work as well as the n900 :-/ Feb 09 14:52:24 it depends on your definition of cancelling, though. Feb 09 14:52:38 ccooke: Android, at the OS level, is a freaking disaster. Feb 09 14:52:46 cancelling that particular specific hardware iteration to replace it very quickly with something similar and with upgraded specs Feb 09 14:52:46 ccooke: Sorry, to state the obvious Feb 09 14:52:50 RST38h: indeed. I've been poking about it. Feb 09 14:53:00 is massively quicker to get to market once the os itll ship with is actually finished Feb 09 14:53:20 haha Feb 09 14:53:36 nidO: you worked in R&D as an EE how long? Feb 09 14:53:43 RST38h: The reason I picked up an Android phone is to give it an other chance. It's... just not as good. Feb 09 14:53:55 Although part of that is that nokia are better at building handsets. Feb 09 14:54:10 Nokia are VERY good at making rock solid hardware IMO Feb 09 14:54:43 DocScrutinizer: empirical evidence clearly agrees with me. no-one's said that upgrading the hardware is a 2 minute job, but its still a shite-sight quicker than having to wait for meego to be written from scratch, which is supposedly what the holdup's been for the past 8 months Feb 09 14:54:49 jonwil: but they will need some 6 to 12 months nevertheless for that, minimum Feb 09 14:54:59 nid0: Please provide references of your empirical evidence Feb 09 14:55:15 Oh, shit, this is fun: I can now troll tmo lemmings right here, on IRC! Feb 09 14:55:28 the desire z is a very nice *looking* phone, but... the audio quality is quieter and not as good. It doesn't have as good reception. The wifi drains more power than it should. Oh, and in areas where the n900 gets decent GSM/3g bandwidth, it keeps failing :-/ Feb 09 14:56:26 RST38h: (also... why should you be sorry to state the obvious?) Feb 09 14:56:37 #1 reason for picking the N900 over the Android options is that the N900 doesn't fight you when you want to modify system stuff Feb 09 14:56:44 ccooke: because it is waste of electrons Feb 09 14:56:54 how do I copy a short piece of text from a webpage? Feb 09 14:56:56 ill take its allready been posted in here? http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/02/08/alien-dalvik-brings-android-apps-to-meego-and-all-other-devices/ Feb 09 14:57:03 RST38h: so is this entire conversation. Might as well enjoy it :-) Feb 09 14:57:49 noodles900: click outside the screen on the bottom left side and drag inwards, it should give you a little cursor icon you can click to switch to text select mode Feb 09 14:58:08 Just need to find someone with access to multiple WiFi networks and then I can gather the last info I need in order to write libicd_policy_wlan_home.so Feb 09 14:58:59 noodles900: err, off the left hand side of the screen, but vertically somewhere below the halfway mark Feb 09 15:00:50 or simply http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Shortcuts_and_Gestures Feb 09 15:01:04 rm_work: noodles900 ^^^ Feb 09 15:01:11 "Surgeons recently needed to remove some pieces in his head because his body rejected one of the three titanium posts implanted there." Feb 09 15:01:35 umm Feb 09 15:01:48 ah yes, that too :P I'm usually in favor of giving simple answers :) Feb 09 15:02:23 I'm in favour of giving instructions how to learn things Feb 09 15:02:31 rather than teach them Feb 09 15:03:03 DocScrutinizer: it's generally the best way. But you do need to teach people how to learn, first :-) Feb 09 15:03:45 that's by try and error, and Darwin and sarcasm do the rest Feb 09 15:03:58 Doc: Good place to start would be by removing all the warning /safety labels Feb 09 15:05:54 yeah, warning labels on everything make me want to stab things sometimes Feb 09 15:06:00 just to even out the score Feb 09 15:06:45 on a giant knife: "warning, sharp. may cause injury if handled improperly." Feb 09 15:08:04 warning labels <3 Feb 09 15:10:12 rm_work, you've obviously not worked enough retail to know how stupid most people are. ;) Feb 09 15:10:35 And ridiculously litigious, too. Feb 09 15:10:49 GAN900: Stupid is good. Uncle Chuck will take care of the stupid. Feb 09 15:11:03 RST38h, he needs to get on that. Feb 09 15:11:26 GAN900: Just to be sure, I suggest US switches to 220V, which will also avoid unnecessary litigation in the electrocution cases Feb 09 15:14:33 adobe with another security update on reader, arcrobat, and flash \o/ Feb 09 15:15:53 risk: high. code execution in cotect of user. http://www.adobe.com/support/security/bulletins/apsb11-02.html Feb 09 15:17:26 I'm so happy maemo doesn't have this crappy flash10¡ Feb 09 15:17:35 Okay. This morning I really wasn't myself. So through USB networking and sshfs I mounted / of the N900 to /mnt/ on my laptop. Then I typed - like an idiot - chown -R [username] /mnt/ because I forgot that I had / mounted on it. Of course I received errors like hell... The point is, the lock code was reseted to 12345 and I can't change it anymore. A bit strange. Everything else seems to work. What can I do? Feb 09 15:18:31 LOL Feb 09 15:18:35 muhahahaha Feb 09 15:18:36 yeah xD Feb 09 15:18:41 nice find though Feb 09 15:18:50 well, chown it again on the phone as root Feb 09 15:18:55 I already did Feb 09 15:18:56 or reflash I'd say Feb 09 15:19:03 reflash Feb 09 15:20:31 you *could* do a nifty chmod to set all files in /mnt to the perms of /mnt2 same file Feb 09 15:21:47 grettings Feb 09 15:22:04 chmod [OPTION]... --reference=RFILE FILE Feb 09 15:22:37 wut? nokia cancelled the n9? Feb 09 15:22:38 :| Feb 09 15:22:50 toss that into -exec of a find command, together with some err sed or basename or similar Feb 09 15:22:57 is it possible to 'automatically' activate bluetooth when I make or accept voice calls and deactivate when I end the call? Feb 09 15:23:02 kerio: rumours Feb 09 15:23:16 kerio: somebody declared this a virtual Friday Feb 09 15:23:51 smhar: hmm, probably yes Feb 09 15:24:26 smhar: start at dbus-script app, then check how to enable/disable BT Feb 09 15:24:41 docscrutinizer, this way I can still use the bluetooth headset while saving the battery life Feb 09 15:25:01 meh, BT is really humble with power Feb 09 15:25:26 docscrutinizer, even if it is on all the day? Feb 09 15:25:46 esp when no headset paired, which you'd need to do manually (switch on headset) anyway Feb 09 15:26:34 smhar: I guess as long as it's not 'visible' it should be really low power usage Feb 09 15:27:10 smhar: wait a minute, I'll run a quick check Feb 09 15:40:26 smhar: BT active and visible: +2..+8mA Feb 09 15:41:10 most of the time +2..+3 Feb 09 15:42:01 Ok thx, I will keep fighting against this problem, and as last solution, reflash... Going to strace controlpanel now, maybe I will see something like write(x, "you are stupid", x) hahaha. Feb 09 15:42:50 smhar: visible or not, doesn't make a difference Feb 09 15:43:25 docscrutinizer, meaning always low battery use? Feb 09 15:43:30 yes Feb 09 15:43:43 this all without headset paired Feb 09 15:44:57 docscrutinizer, good, as my current headphone (cable) is damaged and I was thinking of getting a bluetooth one, but was worried about battery Feb 09 15:47:45 I only need now to free enough space in rootfs to be able to upgrade my N900 :-) Feb 09 15:53:02 smhar: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption#Some_preliminary_numbers_using_the_battery_monitor_chip. Feb 09 15:53:31 thanks docscrutinizer Feb 09 15:53:44 http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/09/us-nokia-meego-idUSTRE71832O20110209 Feb 09 15:54:00 will that be the end of nokia or the start of nokia with android ... :p Feb 09 15:54:04 Is it okay to remove mp-fremantle-generic-pr? Feb 09 15:54:36 Installing libsdl-mixer1.2 1:1.2.6-5+0m5+ogg+mp3 has this side effect, .. Feb 09 15:55:32 it is Feb 09 15:55:53 but i think it messes up OTA updates Feb 09 15:56:35 I don't do OTA updates anyway, disabled that bullshit anyway, the only updates that happen when it is hooked up via USB and I do apt-get ;) Feb 09 15:57:06 that's OTA Feb 09 15:57:18 non ota == flashing Feb 09 16:06:42 errm, that's SSU actually, though OTA feels like a valid synonym Feb 09 16:11:43 http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/09/googles-vic-gundotra-on-nokia-two-turkeys-do-not-make-an-eagl/ Feb 09 16:21:02 rm_work: not sure what I'm looking for Feb 09 16:21:35 did you see the page DocScrutinizer linked? about gestures? Feb 09 16:21:55 rm_work: sorry - no Feb 09 16:22:12 gprs froze :( Feb 09 16:22:16 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Shortcuts_and_Gestures Feb 09 16:22:23 look at browser gestures Feb 09 16:23:08 thanks - waiting for that page to load now ;) Feb 09 16:25:05 cute :) Feb 09 16:25:15 seems to work :) Feb 09 16:25:32 thanks rm_work & DocScrutinizer Feb 09 16:25:42 np Feb 09 16:25:46 yw Feb 09 16:26:51 RST38h: darn, it *must* be Friday and just I missed the fact. IRC and interwebs are like Friday at least Feb 09 16:27:20 Gh0sty: neither, WP7 or meego/harmattan is ready after 12 month (that all people forget about that nokians said in february last year that harmattan will be the migrating step and still be .deb based) Feb 09 16:28:50 and harmattan evidently is in tester evaluation phase Feb 09 16:29:05 so will roll out eventually Feb 09 16:29:16 DocScrutinizer: evidently? Feb 09 16:29:29 is there evidence? Feb 09 16:30:06 evidently, as otherwise how would nokia testers ask for maemo details here in this chan, mentioning that they are missing this or that as they are running harmattan Feb 09 16:30:47 so harmattan is still debian based right? Feb 09 16:31:08 harmattan? Feb 09 16:31:10 whats that? Feb 09 16:31:22 errm, maemo6 Feb 09 16:31:28 Gh0sty: m6 Feb 09 16:31:28 or sth like that Feb 09 16:31:30 ^^ Feb 09 16:31:36 they still work on that? Feb 09 16:31:41 I tought that was stopped? :/ Feb 09 16:31:43 evidently Feb 09 16:31:48 nokia-meego-one Feb 09 16:32:02 meego HE Feb 09 16:32:07 or what did i read recently .. something like n900 is officially EOL and maemo would not be updated for N900 either Feb 09 16:32:14 aka maemo-meego-hybrid Feb 09 16:32:34 and the community was going to take over Feb 09 16:32:40 that should be you then DocScrutinizer ? :p Feb 09 16:32:50 eh? Feb 09 16:33:03 Gh0sty: read again, there will no Nokia driven maemo6/meego1 for n900 but they will support the community to port it Feb 09 16:33:05 or wait no ... you are not taking over ... you are already doing that anyway :P Feb 09 16:33:47 DocScrutinizer: you got a link handy for tester eval? Feb 09 16:34:14 no f'ng clue what's a tester eval Feb 09 16:35:02 maybe you mean http://nokia.taleo.net Feb 09 16:35:57 http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Changelog Feb 09 16:36:03 who is working on this ? :) Feb 09 16:36:07 thats the question :P Feb 09 16:36:29 merlin1991 Feb 09 16:36:33 I did update it with the second version the other day though Feb 09 16:36:48 Well, I wonder when Nokia will manage to figure out a plan what to do, and when they'll manage to communicate it to the public, ... Feb 09 16:37:26 yacc: they never do (at least the 2nd half) Feb 09 16:37:33 lol Feb 09 16:38:05 17:28 < DocScrutinizer> and harmattan evidently is in tester evaluation phase Feb 09 16:38:06 Well, that's a good policy when you are the biggest bully in the sandbox, but this is quickly changing, ... Feb 09 16:38:43 Shapeshifter: here? Feb 09 16:40:45 http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-02-07.log.html#t2011-02-07T21:11:18 and http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-01-19.log.html#t2011-01-19T21:50:53 Feb 09 16:41:27 chem|st: ^^^ Feb 09 16:45:24 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12403466 Feb 09 16:45:49 new boss is taking it seriously? Feb 09 16:47:32 hi people, mi n900 dont read memory cards ( I dont know where is the problem.. ) and i think install meggo in mi n900, can i particion memory intern and install meego and have 2 operatid system ? Feb 09 16:48:29 Dado7, well, the sdhc slot only works when the backcover is in place, ... Feb 09 16:48:46 noodles900, yeah, one feels so happy reading that kind of press ;( Feb 09 16:53:07 sorry for muy english....., you speak spanish ? backcover is in plACE ? what is the backover ? Feb 09 16:53:25 backcover Feb 09 16:53:43 cover on the back of a phone Feb 09 16:56:46 Basically when you open the phone to change SIM card, battery or SDHC card, the N900 senses that, and disables (unmounts if possible I guess) the SDHC card. Feb 09 16:58:20 DocScrutinizer: ok harmattan^^ Feb 09 16:58:28 ha ha ha ha !!!! the truth comes out ... nokia admits they suck giant donkey penis ..... http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/02/08/nokias-elop-drops-bomb-the-platform-is-on-fire Feb 09 17:00:30 lirakis_: *YAWN* Feb 09 17:00:54 * chem|st grabs popcorn Feb 09 17:01:11 lol Feb 09 17:02:03 Wow, as anybody here would try to claim that all is a perfect in Nokialand ;) Feb 09 17:02:04 bunch of ignorant people... watching them is like daily-soap Feb 09 17:02:32 fwiw i really want a n9 Feb 09 17:02:44 kerio: then buy one! Feb 09 17:03:00 when it comes out ! Feb 09 17:03:59 .oO(wanting stuff you do not even know the hardware specs yet is just like buying iphones and think you will be more compatible to the world afterwards) Feb 09 17:04:28 The problem is that with Nokia currently it's like all "when" turn subconsciously into "if" :( Feb 09 17:04:37 was the N9 announced or sth? Feb 09 17:04:55 MohammadAG: nope Feb 09 17:05:00 A N900 with a slightly bigger screen would be nice, ... Feb 09 17:05:12 3.5 aint big ? Feb 09 17:06:09 chem|st: the n9 will be the shit Feb 09 17:06:13 yacc: I would prefer a docking station and a car mount.... Feb 09 17:06:13 true story Feb 09 17:06:24 kerio: no it wont Feb 09 17:06:40 IT WILL Feb 09 17:06:45 i said "true story" Feb 09 17:06:51 capacitive screen is just a no-go Feb 09 17:07:44 Umm Feb 09 17:07:50 who hired Elop? Feb 09 17:08:15 Wow didya guys hear Feb 09 17:08:23 under Windows or Linux, is there a program out there that will let me copy lots of files at once, with the important detail that only source files bigger than destination files will overwrite preexisting files in the destination? Feb 09 17:08:31 Did you read reuters??? Nokia cancelled a meego device Feb 09 17:08:44 did you see tmo? that was last week Feb 09 17:08:52 little bit off-topic, i know Feb 09 17:08:54 TiagoTiago: bigger, or just newly edited? Feb 09 17:08:59 bigger Feb 09 17:09:04 regardless of date Feb 09 17:09:07 meegomaniak: yep Feb 09 17:09:36 Huge news Feb 09 17:09:57 feared but expected Feb 09 17:10:18 meegomaniak: wrong channel and no news Feb 09 17:10:24 In just 10 words, can anyone tell me why I should turn on the N900 I've got knocking about and do something cool with it? Feb 09 17:10:42 Doesnt bode well for the future i'm guessing Feb 09 17:11:01 Gadgetoid: ? Feb 09 17:11:06 Gadgetoid: how about one word: don't Feb 09 17:11:08 Because you can? Feb 09 17:11:09 chem|st: I've lost touch! Feb 09 17:11:12 Gadgetoid: sell it on ebay, and buy a duck. Feb 09 17:11:14 in 10 words or less can someone tell Gadgetoid that he is a troll? Feb 09 17:11:29 I don't know what's happened lately with the N900 Feb 09 17:11:31 Gadgetoid: dont worry about the hostility here Feb 09 17:11:43 Gadgetoid: two words? marble communitySSU... Feb 09 17:11:53 meegomaniak: I'm used to it... I think I failed at phrasing my request Feb 09 17:12:09 there is a driver for packet injection, that helps? Feb 09 17:12:23 Gadgetoid: if you dont praise the N900 the maemo nazis will ban you. Feb 09 17:12:23 meegomaniak: you dont know me hostile Feb 09 17:12:39 meegomaniak: godwin's law... Feb 09 17:12:44 meegomaniak: Hahaha, I was certainly not putting it down... I just want to know what's new ;) Feb 09 17:13:47 Gadgetoid: ok. Unfortunately when it comes to the n900 it would appear it's dying a slow death. Feb 09 17:13:49 how long have you been gone? Feb 09 17:14:06 meegomaniak: Yeah, I expected that... nokia don't seem to be missing the one I have lying around Feb 09 17:14:21 That's usually a good sign that it's been left for dead Feb 09 17:14:27 it's one of the borrowed prototypes? Feb 09 17:14:35 Gadgetoid: correct. Feb 09 17:14:36 Nokia pulled the plug the day PR1.3 was released Feb 09 17:14:37 TiagoTiago: Nope, it's a retail unit Feb 09 17:14:52 but really, why should you care? Feb 09 17:15:08 why would they miss one device you legally acquired? Feb 09 17:15:47 I still have my N810, too... it's still awesome, but I can't find a reason to power it up Feb 09 17:15:47 Well, apart, AHEM, from this awesome community, of course Feb 09 17:16:08 how long have you been gone? Feb 09 17:16:11 What was the point of nokia giving out n900 to developers when it was a dying platform? Feb 09 17:16:13 MohammadAG: I like a good excuse to waste time tinkering with gadgetry :D Feb 09 17:17:51 it wasn't a dying platform when they were were giving them out... Feb 09 17:17:54 it was probably a the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing situation i guess Feb 09 17:18:25 Here's hoping I can jam the n900 into the iControlPad Feb 09 17:18:32 either that or some people got fired/hired and they wanna get rid of all signs of the previous regime..... Feb 09 17:19:33 I hate this BS spinned by the nokia mouthpieces on TMO that the n900 could be used to develop for meego. What a crack of baloney. Feb 09 17:22:39 * Gadgetoid plugs in the n900 to charge Feb 09 17:22:49 What's Meego like on the n900, anyway!? Feb 09 17:23:00 Gadgetoid: utter crap Feb 09 17:23:23 meegomaniak: shame :( Feb 09 17:23:48 MohammadAG: what would be the course of action for a new n900 reflash as of now? Feb 09 17:23:58 flash pr1.3, update everything, then cssu? Feb 09 17:24:06 I really liked the n900 as a piece of hardware, but it lost out to the iPhone 4 Feb 09 17:24:15 meegomaniak: please stop telling BS. For the "not missing" A) you don't know if they come to you in 12 months asking for it. B) it's much more expensive to reclaim a device than to produce a new one Feb 09 17:24:28 kerio: yes Feb 09 17:25:05 darn this MUST be Friday today Feb 09 17:25:07 :-S Feb 09 17:25:16 Docscrutinizer: BS??? Care to explain? Feb 09 17:25:43 meegomaniak: I did in very same post line Feb 09 17:25:47 just read Feb 09 17:26:06 My brain has esplode Feb 09 17:26:23 DocScrutinizer: ignore him, he got banned from #meego for being needlessly antagonistic and uncooperative Feb 09 17:26:35 I see Feb 09 17:26:46 docscrutinizer: how is that referring to me????? I didnt tell anybody 'not missing'. You're confused. Feb 09 17:26:46 he'll just keep this crap up for hours on end Feb 09 17:26:54 well, trolls chatting with trolls, my dream Feb 09 17:27:25 Wmarone: hello mate, have we met? Feb 09 17:27:39 yes, MeegoBoy Feb 09 17:27:53 meegomaniak: OK, sorry, that's been Gadgetoid Feb 09 17:27:59 or are you unfamiliar with the fact that your whois is exactly the same as yesterday? Feb 09 17:28:01 Wmarone: i beg your pardon? Feb 09 17:28:10 Docscrutinizer: thank you. Feb 09 17:28:13 I can't figure out whether or not I'm being called a troll... so I'm just going to slink away and look through the repos Feb 09 17:28:16 did i miss the msg or no one answered my question about conditional overwriting? Feb 09 17:28:38 wmarone: ssshhhhhhh! Feb 09 17:29:14 Please let's all take a deep breath - no name calling please. We're all free to express our opinions. Feb 09 17:29:24 the N900's temperature should not rise upto 40 C right ? Feb 09 17:29:29 is that too high ? Feb 09 17:29:39 xDaReaperx: what on earth are you doing? Feb 09 17:29:46 i think thats the batteries temp ? Feb 09 17:29:47 meegomaniak: please refrain from posting such very wise general advice Feb 09 17:29:49 nothing Feb 09 17:30:03 meegomaniak: no we're... not? Feb 09 17:30:05 when i charge it usually goes high Feb 09 17:30:19 uhm charge and surf the net that is Feb 09 17:30:22 internet is not a democracy, IRC is not a democracy, freenode is not a democracy and #maemo *definetely* is not a democracy Feb 09 17:30:44 Docscrutinizer: i have 3 very important words for you to ponder: freedom of speech Feb 09 17:30:47 xDaReaperx: the temp as seen in some monitors? Is usually die (chip) temp of charger chip, and doesn't mean a lot Feb 09 17:30:54 kerio: What is it, a camel!? Feb 09 17:31:02 meegomaniak: again, doesn't apply here Feb 09 17:31:03 meegomaniak: second warning Feb 09 17:31:18 meegomaniak: 6 words... up the shut fsck you must Feb 09 17:31:22 DocScrutinizer : oh okay yeah i was checking it out in QCPUFreq Feb 09 17:31:27 =/ why do people think freedom of speech applies to forums and IRC channels!? Feb 09 17:31:31 now its 29C Feb 09 17:31:53 XdaReaperx: way too high... Feb 09 17:32:08 i dunno it dosent go any less here Feb 09 17:32:12 xDaReaperx: somewhere near 130° it will shut down charging ;-D Feb 09 17:32:14 it applies, the governament can't punish you for stuff you say there :P Feb 09 17:32:16 XdaReaperx: mine never reached that Feb 09 17:32:33 you mean 29 C ? Feb 09 17:32:37 XdaReaperx: something wrong with the circuitry Feb 09 17:32:45 meegomaniak: nonsense Feb 09 17:32:51 lol i'm scared now Feb 09 17:32:57 Docscrutinizer: why? Just a suggestion Feb 09 17:33:01 xDaReaperx: ignore that Feb 09 17:33:05 ok Feb 09 17:33:07 TiagoTiago: true, I suppose, but you've no freedom to speak out in ways that ops find objectionable... that's a simple fact of maintaining a pleasant, structured place to talk about a specific topic Feb 09 17:33:13 XdaReaperx: flash your n900 clean Feb 09 17:33:22 can we please kickban him Feb 09 17:33:29 meegomaniak: what happened to you? canadians are usually so polite? Feb 09 17:33:30 Kerio: why? Feb 09 17:33:43 Ieatlint: we are, just as Elop is Feb 09 17:33:53 Does anyone here use Flux (the crazy screen warming/adjusting application)? Feb 09 17:34:01 technicly you do have that freedom, but the moderators etc also got the freedom to ban your ass Feb 09 17:34:07 meegomaniak: LAST warning. Stop BS like suggesting somebody a full flash to fix an inexistent problem! Feb 09 17:34:12 TiagoTiago: of course Feb 09 17:34:14 meegomaniak: no, you must have mistaken asshole with politeness Feb 09 17:34:49 Ieatlint: nice language ... Show me once where i abused somebody like you just did Feb 09 17:35:08 still godwin's law applies... Feb 09 17:35:10 no, you were more indirect Feb 09 17:35:16 i just went straight for it Feb 09 17:35:19 Yeeesh... I feel like one mis-phrased request for juicy Maemo news has sparked a fire of passive aggressive trollism Feb 09 17:35:21 Ieatlint: wrong Feb 09 17:35:28 does not matter what you say anymore Feb 09 17:36:03 Dont I have a right to express my opinion without offending anyone in particular? Feb 09 17:36:06 well, i feel i was pretty direct at least Feb 09 17:36:10 meegomaniak: you dont Feb 09 17:36:15 meegomaniak: you are mistaken if you think you are Feb 09 17:36:20 Chx_afk: i do Feb 09 17:36:26 meegomaniak: calling people in here nazis... Feb 09 17:36:28 meegomaniak: this is not a public place Feb 09 17:36:37 meegomaniak: freedom of speech does not apply. Feb 09 17:37:04 Chx_afk: did you not understand that was a joke when i said nazis? Subtle humour my friend. Feb 09 17:37:09 hey guys Feb 09 17:37:16 hey venemo :D Feb 09 17:37:16 meegomaniak: DocScrutinizer is imo too patient with you. Feb 09 17:37:25 I'll put an end to this now Feb 09 17:37:28 hello merlin1991 :) Feb 09 17:37:33 The true impact of the term "nazis" seems to have been lost, everyone thinks the war was "half a decade" ago, and the only people who talk about it anymore are old and jewish... it's sad... we're doomed to forget our past and thus repeat it... errr... sorry, I went off a bit there Feb 09 17:37:45 meegomaniak: hey! who're you? Feb 09 17:37:56 meegomaniak: ok then one more... YOU ARE NOT FUNNY! Feb 09 17:38:26 it's finshed, please move on. Nothing to see here Feb 09 17:38:44 can we get back to our beloved, abandoned by the powers up high OS? :) Feb 09 17:39:06 there actually still are some real nazis out there, they just don't got the same level of military power as they once did Feb 09 17:39:11 The whole free world united to fight for their freedom... what have we got to show for that these days? The best we can do is leave the protesting up to misguided internet hacker groups whilst we sit on our laurels and discuss why the world is going to hell whilst we sit on our laurels... Feb 09 17:39:34 oh, sorry, took too long writing, please nvm me if necessary Feb 09 17:42:31 Gadgetoid: please check repositories and #maemo-ssu for quite a bit of news about a quite vivid zombie Feb 09 17:43:14 DocScrutinizer: ssu, eh? that's cropped up recently then, because I have no idea what it means. A focussed community effort to keep the maemo flame alive, I presume? Feb 09 17:43:53 Seamless Software Update, and CSSU for Community-SSU Feb 09 17:48:16 DocScrutinizer: Think I might install it, and see how it goes... as this n900 isn't mission critical, it's worth a try Feb 09 17:50:26 Hi Feb 09 17:50:30 Gadgetoid: we even got USB hostmode to work Feb 09 17:50:51 Gadgetoid: something Nokia claimed was completely impossible on N900 Feb 09 17:51:03 I'm using an external device with the host mode and I get this error: ENOSPC 28 /* No space left on device */ Feb 09 17:51:06 DocScrutinizer: Nice work! I didn't really use it on the N810 for much, but it's handy to hook up an external hard drive for music Feb 09 17:51:47 it's a camera Feb 09 17:52:12 has anyone ever had this type of error? Feb 09 17:52:49 henez: yes, every time my disk got full... Feb 09 17:53:01 henez: you should probably say what you're trying to do... Feb 09 17:53:02 villager, :D Feb 09 17:53:10 I'm trying to make this camera work Feb 09 17:53:14 with the n900 Feb 09 17:53:30 but what exactly gave that error? Feb 09 17:53:42 well, i'm heading off, cya Feb 09 17:53:50 cya TiagoTiago Feb 09 17:54:06 debugging and debugging I find out that the error is due to this Feb 09 17:54:28 do you know if anyone has succeed to make a camera work with the n900? Feb 09 18:01:04 Cripes. I don't even have PR1.3 installed yet Feb 09 18:01:50 yes, I made cameras work with N900 - these were via HTTP in a flash plugin though, and were streamed via WLAN and internet. If your camera is doing the same streaming, then there's no reason why it wouldn't work via USB Feb 09 18:03:31 usually a random "webcam" isn't working like that though. You'll need a proper driver, and you need to start an app that reads from that driver and does whatever useful thing to the video data, like displaying on screen, storing to disk, whatever Feb 09 18:03:38 Hm. No UK variant of PR 1.3. Global it is, then! Feb 09 18:04:12 global FTW Feb 09 18:05:21 "wtf labolg" is that in reverse, and it's awesome Feb 09 18:05:36 lol Feb 09 18:05:58 ~reverse wtf labolg Feb 09 18:05:59 global ftw Feb 09 18:06:19 ~botsnack Feb 09 18:06:19 DocScrutinizer: thanks Feb 09 18:07:04 DocScrutinizer, uhm Feb 09 18:08:56 henez: I suggest you make the cam work on your linux desktop PC, check what it needs to do so (which driver, which app), then get or port those driver and app bits to/on maemo, and odds are you're fine with that Feb 09 18:09:36 yep Feb 09 18:09:43 Talk was more entertaining when there were intelligent people in the mix. Feb 09 18:09:44 in my computer works Feb 09 18:09:53 it doesn't work with the n900 Feb 09 18:09:57 Now it's not so fun watching a bunch of people be wrong on the Internet. Feb 09 18:10:11 heh Feb 09 18:10:11 the camera is recognised because the leds are on Feb 09 18:10:38 GAN900: shal I -q some of the intelligent people? ;-P Feb 09 18:11:21 henez: LEDs not always mean much. This can just signal a working +5V Feb 09 18:13:02 DocScrutinizer, kk Feb 09 18:13:40 henez: I still fail to get it where from you got that error msg Feb 09 18:13:56 henez: where does it show up? when does it show up? Feb 09 18:14:19 it shows up during the initialization of the device Feb 09 18:14:39 I'm not able to get any frames Feb 09 18:14:50 henez: I do not know when the device is initializing Feb 09 18:15:07 uhm Feb 09 18:15:20 and I still miss to understand where it shows and who's throwing that error Feb 09 18:16:09 henez: please pretend you're stupid, and explain in *simple* words what you do, see, and plan to do Feb 09 18:16:09 it's hard to explain without see the code Feb 09 18:16:30 maybe I need to copy it Feb 09 18:16:48 why do you need any code? Feb 09 18:17:08 to explain better Feb 09 18:17:16 you need a DRIVER, and something like a lengthy commandline to gstreamer Feb 09 18:17:51 your device to use most likely is /dev/video2 Feb 09 18:18:08 uhm got it Feb 09 18:18:15 so you use that device to stream the video to e.g your screen Feb 09 18:18:39 if that's working you can start developing whatever nifty app using same device Feb 09 18:18:46 ok Feb 09 18:18:55 thanks Feb 09 18:19:01 DocScrutinizer, we lost IQ critical mass. So all of the old guard moved here or elsewhere. Feb 09 18:19:04 /dev/video2 will show up automatically if you got the proper *driver* for that cam Feb 09 18:19:12 uhm ok Feb 09 18:19:46 henez: so check what driver exactly is the one used on your x86 PC, for that cam Feb 09 18:20:00 then get that driver on maemo... profit Feb 09 18:20:59 GAN900: no, *I* lost critical IQ mass Feb 09 18:21:03 ok Feb 09 18:21:07 probably during last booze Feb 09 18:21:20 DocScrutinizer, I m using that driver on maemo Feb 09 18:21:31 I ported it Feb 09 18:21:44 oh, ok. So does it work? Feb 09 18:22:05 no, there is that error :D Feb 09 18:22:14 in syslog? Feb 09 18:22:19 it's that I was talking about.. I have not explained myself well sorry Feb 09 18:22:42 I get that error debugging Feb 09 18:22:50 it's an errno message Feb 09 18:24:02 my suggestion still applies: please pretend you're stupid, and explain in *simple* words what you do, see, and plan to do Feb 09 18:24:15 and esp what you did Feb 09 18:25:10 nobody will be able to help you unless we can reproduce your exact steps taken Feb 09 18:26:23 you're right Feb 09 18:27:30 I'm going home unfortunately Feb 09 18:27:48 thank you Feb 09 18:29:10 what's that eduroam thing? Feb 09 18:29:28 as in menos@eduroam-wireless-pat3.wireless.bris.ac.uk Feb 09 18:29:48 roaming on campus? Feb 09 18:29:49 Woo... now installing community SSU Feb 09 18:30:23 palm is announcing Feb 09 18:30:57 is announcing... (eliptic statement?) Feb 09 18:31:49 well we don't yet know what :) Feb 09 18:31:55 since it's not announced yet. Feb 09 18:32:18 oh, so they announced they're going to announce? Feb 09 18:32:45 well they are having some kind of whatever it is you have when you announce new products and whatnot Feb 09 18:33:14 red ears? Feb 09 18:33:22 yesterday I was excited about what nokia was gonna say friday, Now I'm scared. Feb 09 18:33:29 DocScrutinizer, LOL right. Feb 09 18:34:07 I'm already bored Feb 09 18:34:31 whatever they annouce, it can't get worse Feb 09 18:34:50 they're going to announce that they will be announcing a new product soon. Feb 09 18:35:00 s/ annouce/'re going to say/ Feb 09 18:35:01 DocScrutinizer meant: whatever they're going to say, it can't get worse Feb 09 18:36:15 Community SSU installed... I think Feb 09 18:36:36 Wonder what I did with my USB gender changer Feb 09 18:36:48 well, they could say they're going to shut down garage and wiki in the afternoon - that'd be actually worse than what it's now Feb 09 18:37:03 DocScrutinizer: !!! don't even think it! Feb 09 18:37:42 Who the hell operates Maemo.org, anyway? Feb 09 18:38:18 Nokia, mostly? Feb 09 18:38:28 though it's hosted elsewhere Feb 09 18:38:41 *tremble* Feb 09 18:39:15 tmo is completely separate, as it's been tablettalk formerly Feb 09 18:39:19 apparently they killed off the palm brand... O.o Feb 09 18:39:49 Hewlett Palmard? Feb 09 18:40:29 hehe Feb 09 18:40:37 HP Pre3 for summer apparently. Feb 09 18:41:04 Historically Palm Pre3 ;-D Feb 09 18:41:14 yep Feb 09 18:41:48 hp touchpad http://www.flickr.com/photos/webosroundup/5431067071/ Feb 09 18:42:01 aka the hp "meh" Feb 09 18:42:14 Time to break out my game gripper! Feb 09 18:42:20 or i dunno. maybe it's good. It's not android and not apple. So that's a good thing Feb 09 18:42:36 Gadgetoid, Ooh I have that too. I just need to find it. What are you playing? Feb 09 18:42:48 mece: Megadrive games, probably! Feb 09 18:43:05 I play a lot of snes Feb 09 18:43:17 HOLY SHIT! Feb 09 18:43:24 USB Host! + Retrode! Feb 09 18:43:27 = AWESOME! Feb 09 18:43:39 hmm 1.2ghz dual core on the touchpad. That's nice. Feb 09 18:43:54 That just clicked! I ordered one of the last 15 retrodes a few days ago Feb 09 18:44:06 what's a retrode? Feb 09 18:44:21 It turns Megadrive/SNES cartridges into USB mass storage... more or less Feb 09 18:44:33 anode, cathode tetrode... Feb 09 18:44:34 Presents them as ROMs, with writable save states for SNES Feb 09 18:45:55 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrode Feb 09 18:46:27 RIP Palm Feb 09 18:49:12 just-eat.co.uk is the best website on the internet. Feb 09 18:49:23 We would die of starvation without it! Feb 09 18:49:38 Gadgetoid: you work there? ;) Feb 09 18:49:52 piggz: no affiliation with it whatsoever... Feb 09 18:49:58 But if I didn't have my wife, I would die without it Feb 09 18:50:13 I'm useless at cooking, lazy and hate phones and the outdoors Feb 09 18:51:06 It's like the (mythical?) /pizza command in World of Warcraft Feb 09 18:55:35 oh man these new notpalm phones are horrendously ugly. Just like the previous ones. Go figure. Feb 09 18:56:00 the touchpad looks like an ipad. Whoda thunk it? Feb 09 18:56:47 mece, don't like the Pre? Feb 09 18:57:13 It bothers me that Picodrive doesn't go SEEEGAAAA Feb 09 18:57:25 never tried it. but it I think fugly is an apt description of the design Feb 09 18:57:32 imo Feb 09 18:58:00 * javispedro kinda likes it, it actually resembles the N900 Feb 09 18:58:04 in both color and general shape Feb 09 18:58:15 Yeah, I kinda like the looks. Feb 09 18:58:17 and support? :P Feb 09 18:58:27 Portrait and low screen resolution suck, though. Feb 09 18:58:34 well that's fixed on the pre3 Feb 09 18:58:37 (lores) Feb 09 18:58:39 yep Feb 09 18:58:57 * javispedro however isn't exactly sold yet on the screen size Feb 09 18:59:08 wait.. what am I looking at? Feb 09 18:59:19 where's a pic of the pre3? Feb 09 18:59:23 3.6 inch Feb 09 18:59:59 the thing I'm looking at looks exactly like a pre Feb 09 19:00:16 looks like a phone that has eaten too many donuts Feb 09 19:00:37 ooh that's the veer Feb 09 19:00:39 I see the pre as a big pebble Feb 09 19:00:41 Well... SSU seems to work... no explosions yet Feb 09 19:00:49 a sexy one Feb 09 19:00:52 tbh there's something in the proportions of the pre3 that throws me off. Feb 09 19:00:54 what they did there? Feb 09 19:00:57 Colour me impressed! Feb 09 19:01:04 Gadgetoid, haven't hit the detonate button, yet Feb 09 19:01:13 Gadgetoid, works smooth :) Feb 09 19:01:34 MohammadAG: I don't have that much of an interest in it... but if you're going to guilt trip me into it! Feb 09 19:01:43 I'm a dirty iPhone user Feb 09 19:01:46 can I have an url to a pic of pre3? Feb 09 19:02:07 Shun! SHUN! Gadgetoid!!! Feb 09 19:02:09 ;) Feb 09 19:02:34 QML's pathview is neat Feb 09 19:02:35 iOS and Maemo are where my heart lies... Android, not so much Feb 09 19:02:55 mece: engadget Feb 09 19:03:36 thanks. found on palm site :) Feb 09 19:03:42 a pity the palm brand is over. Feb 09 19:03:54 Seems I'm getting older and older... Feb 09 19:04:06 well it looks like an n900 that has eaten too many burgers Feb 09 19:04:08 webOS tablet is something I could get behind. Feb 09 19:04:26 GAN900, ditto. Feb 09 19:04:31 You too, eh, Javier? ;) Feb 09 19:04:32 although I would prefer a meego tablet Feb 09 19:04:53 GAN900: :D Feb 09 19:04:57 mmmmmmm... meego Feb 09 19:05:10 it all depends on the amount of facepalm come friday... Feb 09 19:06:28 I also believe that the smallish Veer thing will have its share too. Risky though. Feb 09 19:09:29 how much does an ipad weigh? Feb 09 19:09:30 Quick Elop, go ask these guys for the UI. Feb 09 19:09:35 hehe Feb 09 19:09:38 you still have time until Friday!! Feb 09 19:11:07 hmm apparently you can answer calls on the touchpad... Feb 09 19:13:19 mece, me too, but I really think webOS is well suited to the tablet. Feb 09 19:13:41 never seen it. But they have a cool community. Second best in mobile ;) Feb 09 19:14:15 they have drnoksnes. that's all that matters! ;) Feb 09 19:15:59 this pre3 its actually larger than the n900. Feb 09 19:16:04 *is Feb 09 19:16:30 but slimmer, seemingly. Feb 09 19:17:01 less battery, pfft. Feb 09 19:19:16 magnetometer, no stereo speakers, and 24-bit color depth (something I could believe as the webos actually defaults to 24bpp) Feb 09 19:20:01 not perfect. now let's see what Nokia has in store. Feb 09 19:21:21 I'd consider it if it were a landscape slider. Feb 09 19:21:32 Assuming Nokia's got shit. Feb 09 19:22:00 btw they're a Qualcomm convert. Feb 09 19:22:16 previously a TI-only house, now they got the Qualcomm CEO on scene. Feb 09 19:23:09 yeah. dualcore snapdragon in the touchpad Feb 09 19:24:16 ooh.. everyone's favorite eldar says "change of OS is a absurd idea." Feb 09 19:24:31 (about nokia) Feb 09 19:27:32 qualcomm that's one unlikely story isnt it. inventor of the crappy CDMA standards ( no data and speech at the same time, blah ) , supplier of an equally crappy mobile platform (BREW) somehow transformed itself into the supplier of chips for all smartphones, including the very very high end Feb 09 19:28:06 So... windows mobile is the way Nokia go? Feb 09 19:28:33 and it even COMES WITH MUSIC!! ( sigh ) Feb 09 19:29:17 chx: ha, i still have a brew phone somewhere Feb 09 19:29:18 zap: i refuse to believe that Feb 09 19:30:49 javispedro, I should probably label myself a TI fanboy. Feb 09 19:31:34 yeah, I have to admit their outlook to OSS is one of the best if not the best. Feb 09 19:31:44 this is microsoft's last poisoned gasp... got us Feb 09 19:32:50 It's too bad they're victims of the MHz Myth: Part Deuce. Feb 09 19:33:37 * DocScrutinizer pulls all the bits from outside world to his 10TB HDD array, to form his private maemo-N900 universe, then cuts wires and nails the doors Feb 09 19:33:58 * javispedro hacks into DocScrutinizer's little universe and insert ads about the iPhone Feb 09 19:34:11 WAAAAHHH Feb 09 19:34:32 wait until Friday, then you're really going to want to have a private universe :) Feb 09 19:34:57 zap, no. Feb 09 19:35:06 zap, some microsoft services in ovi Feb 09 19:35:31 I also <3 TI Feb 09 19:35:50 but my TI-85 broke :( Feb 09 19:35:57 i'd say: let windows mobile die, at last Feb 09 19:37:22 unrelated but bwaaahahahahahaaaa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gIsKdzqFI8 Feb 09 19:38:05 Damn. I forgot that SIXAD requires setup on a PC to get the blasted PS3 controllers to pair Feb 09 19:38:20 mece, clearly an excellent excuse to get a TI-89ti Feb 09 19:39:33 get a *real* decent hardware, get a HP calculator Feb 09 19:40:03 Or an abacus Feb 09 19:40:31 What the what. HP TouchPad, HP Veer and HP Pre3? Feb 09 19:40:33 HP Pre!? Feb 09 19:41:01 oh, lol. Recently some weird young reporters in TV called abacus slide rule Feb 09 19:41:11 in German of course Feb 09 19:41:43 I'm pretty sure WebOS is the most awful abomination of an OS I've ever had the displeasure to try and use... but I might have been biased slightly Feb 09 19:41:48 Historically Palm Pre Feb 09 19:43:10 Even Compaq sounded better Feb 09 19:43:43 Why on earth would anyone shed a brand like Palm, it boggles the mind Feb 09 19:43:56 Gadgetoid: you have to see where they're coming from. Palm Pilot OS had no file system, and no way to start apps, and no storage but only battery buffered or flash mirrored memory aka RAM Feb 09 19:44:23 Palm OS is awesome, I bought an m505 recently... the damned thing is so fast Feb 09 19:44:27 and it was the best! Feb 09 19:44:49 Everything is just *there*, instantaneously, just how an embedded device should work Feb 09 19:45:14 yeah that's truely embedded Feb 09 19:45:30 i agree Gadgetoid Feb 09 19:45:39 that's what using the psion felt like also Feb 09 19:45:42 And the hardware itself is a thing of beauty, too, the brand "Palm" carries so much weight with anyone who knows dick about mobile devices Feb 09 19:45:48 I wish I owned a Psion 5, even now Feb 09 19:46:14 i have a 5mx with cracked screen Feb 09 19:46:18 Gadgetoid: it being dropped means how much people know about mobile devices these days. Feb 09 19:46:19 I got my wife to buy one, once upon a time, but her dad made her take it back... it was £500 back then Feb 09 19:46:25 Gadgetoid: that, or that we're getting old :( Feb 09 19:46:33 javispedro: A little of both, I think Feb 09 19:46:41 heh if you don't like the name Palm, so what'S about handspring then? Feb 09 19:46:48 Mobile device have become a commodity, taken for granted, and unappreciated Feb 09 19:46:55 Handspring Visor :D :D Feb 09 19:47:27 moo Feb 09 19:47:42 hehehe Feb 09 19:48:20 symbian feels pretty fast to me as well Feb 09 19:48:27 I wonder if that's been even before some Geordy La Forge stared out of TV with his visor Feb 09 19:48:44 Hmm, I think Symbian went through a bit of a rough time, seems to be pulling out of it now Feb 09 19:48:49 pupnik: depends. it gets slower as you install more stuff Feb 09 19:48:52 But it still feels a little bit cheap Feb 09 19:57:30 wtf. Feb 09 19:57:33 WebOS for printers. Feb 09 19:57:46 HP, can you just think something else other than your fscking printers. Feb 09 19:58:11 WebOS on the toner carts Feb 09 19:58:21 WebOS on the ethernet switches Feb 09 19:58:36 WebOS on print paper. Feb 09 19:58:57 The printer thing is nothing special Feb 09 19:59:10 HP had removable PDA-like tablets in their printers for a while Feb 09 19:59:16 WebOS on toilet paper Feb 09 19:59:20 So, I guess they just replaced android with webos there Feb 09 19:59:48 Microsoft Toner Cartridge: touchscreen that faces inwards in the printer and requires you to somehow read a code from it and repeat it loud on the phone to a ms activation agent before you get code that makes it dispense toner Feb 09 20:00:45 you need specifically (braille-) crafted paper to use the touch screen, problem solved Feb 09 20:00:50 * DocScrutinizer ponders sitting on the toilet, activating the sheet of toilet paper Feb 09 20:01:51 DocScrutinizer: "Activation failure. Your ass is not genuine Microsoft Software. You will not able to get our free Microsoft Genuine Advantage Extra Applications for it." Feb 09 20:02:43 I don't know why Microsoft bother with all that activation nonsense... *sigh* Feb 09 20:02:54 At this juncture they should be grateful for every user they get, pirated or not Feb 09 20:04:36 they tried to prevent TCP/IP from getting a foothold in households Gadgetoid Feb 09 20:05:04 pupnik_: Whatwhatwhat!? Feb 09 20:05:08 microsoft tried to prevent a networking standard Feb 09 20:05:15 ... Feb 09 20:05:17 and force users to use their own proprietary one Feb 09 20:05:18 Mind. Blown. Feb 09 20:05:21 yep Feb 09 20:05:26 Netbios? Feb 09 20:05:30 yep Feb 09 20:05:36 You're kidding, right? Feb 09 20:05:37 netbios/netbeui Feb 09 20:05:38 nope Feb 09 20:05:50 he's not kidding. Feb 09 20:05:55 That brings back memories, awful awful memories Feb 09 20:06:07 Of coaxial networking, and things not fucking working unless the almighty magic netbios was enabled Feb 09 20:06:16 they also tried to prevent the www (see The MSN) however everyone used to do that back then. Feb 09 20:06:21 yep Feb 09 20:06:27 i always wanted to get the custom licence plate for my car "NETBEUI" Feb 09 20:06:32 last i checked, it was still available Feb 09 20:06:42 Haha, I know a guy who sells custom license plates Feb 09 20:06:53 as a friend once commented, if i did, i'd have to honk my horn every couple minutes and shout "HERE I AM!" Feb 09 20:07:15 ieatlint: Ahahahahahahahahaha *cries* Feb 09 20:07:40 Fortunately I'm just a youngling, so I didn't experience the full brunt of Windows networking fuckupery Feb 09 20:08:13 btw, has anyone else noticed that you can't take pictures on the n900 while in a phone call? Feb 09 20:08:23 gives an audio device in use error Feb 09 20:08:43 It seriously errors because it can't play a snapshot sound!? Feb 09 20:08:58 and i have the sound disabled at that Feb 09 20:08:58 i think it's important to remind people how evil MS was Feb 09 20:09:25 and how the world could have been a much worse place if they'd won all their battles Feb 09 20:09:26 pupnik: It's totally like what Apple are doing to the Flash standard! Feb 09 20:09:32 pupnik, nah. I think it's important to let the MS hatred fade away Feb 09 20:09:33 * Gadgetoid laughs hysterically Feb 09 20:09:38 Gadgetoid: lol Feb 09 20:11:17 mikhas i'll agree with you only if the wm7/nokia rumours aren't true Feb 09 20:11:20 mikhas: hate becomes the shape of your mind Feb 09 20:11:40 so poetic Feb 09 20:11:46 thank you Feb 09 20:12:18 hate leads to fear, fear leads to the dark side, etc Feb 09 20:12:26 disagree Feb 09 20:12:30 That's racist! Feb 09 20:12:37 the 'shape of your mind' thing is from buddhism Feb 09 20:12:49 Gadgetoid: if you're shocked by that, then we clearly haven't met Feb 09 20:13:10 pupnik: star wars is more popular than buddhism around here... i'll stick with it Feb 09 20:13:11 ieatlint: I'm not shocked by anything, I just feign disgust so that people think I have some humanity left Feb 09 20:13:27 heh Feb 09 20:13:43 ( except electricity, that's shocking! ) Feb 09 20:14:11 Err... my brain has imploded Feb 09 20:14:25 better to light a candle than curse the darkness Feb 09 20:14:28 Instead of "ssh root@10.0.1.28" I simply typed root @ 10.0.1.28 as if it would magically work Feb 09 20:14:45 better to accept that darkness than fight it Feb 09 20:15:05 see 4chan for details Feb 09 20:17:00 Oh woe is me, I think getting gcc and libusb on maemo is going to be... fun? Feb 09 20:18:55 Ahh well, I'm so used to circumventing apt due to my horribly broken dependencies on my AppleTV Feb 09 20:20:02 lol appletv Feb 09 20:20:18 lol all you like, it's got teh bluetooth! Feb 09 20:20:29 don't be cheap, build yourself a HTPC Feb 09 20:20:53 I did. Gave it away. Feb 09 20:21:29 ._. Feb 09 20:21:34 why didn't you give it to me? Feb 09 20:22:08 Haha, I gave it to my sister... it was a bit ungainly and I never used it Feb 09 20:22:21 always preferred something a little more specialist Feb 09 20:23:06 i suppose having some network storage with a PS3 would work just as well Feb 09 20:25:36 HP can get Kindle, but Nokia can't. . . . Feb 09 20:27:44 founder of DEC, ken olsen, died Feb 09 20:27:56 GAN900: Nokia can get Microsoft, HP can't Feb 09 20:28:08 ieatlint: :( Feb 09 20:29:28 Interesting, compiled sixpair Feb 09 20:30:19 Looks like a reboot is in order, for the hostmode enabled kernel Feb 09 20:34:07 Aha, I think I've bricked it Feb 09 20:34:30 Or not Feb 09 20:42:34 Argh, misplaced my USB gender changer Feb 09 20:46:40 alterego: ping Feb 09 20:48:16 achipa1: this is ridiculous: http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTSDK-491 Feb 09 20:48:59 Venemo: what the... Feb 09 20:50:26 achipa1: it's just a damn checkbox on a GUI that needs to be enabled :P Feb 09 20:51:46 DocScrutinizer: imagine, someone did tell me the solution Feb 09 20:52:24 DocScrutinizer: there's a package, maemo-version (which others pointed me to), but it only exists in the SDK repository. so I removed it from the Depends and added it just to build-depends and now it all seems to work :) Feb 09 20:53:59 Gadgetoid: then watch a video instead ;-D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkCDyUO0sKQ&NR=1 Feb 09 20:54:48 Venemo: you want to "confuse developers" ! :P Feb 09 20:56:12 achipa1: yes, I do! :D Feb 09 20:56:34 achipa1: because having 3 Qt Creators in my applications menu is not confusing at all Feb 09 21:04:43 Ahh, I haz failed Feb 09 21:05:22 I have the crappiest USB hub in the universe, which doesn't help Feb 09 21:09:10 Is nokia completely ditching meego? :S Feb 09 21:09:53 ArGGu^^: ??? Feb 09 21:10:06 "Meegi"! Feb 09 21:10:16 well N9 is not coming :S Feb 09 21:10:35 Venemo: i think i just heard a rumour! better post it on the forums ASAP! Feb 09 21:10:38 FUD Feb 09 21:10:58 DocScrutinizer: feel like chaging the topic? ;) Feb 09 21:11:01 oh the N9 will be coming, just not with the hardware that it had :) Feb 09 21:11:06 BCMM: :D Feb 09 21:11:12 javispedro: suggestions? Feb 09 21:11:24 :P Feb 09 21:11:37 "GET TO YOUR FALLOUT SHELTERS, NOKIA IS GOING CRAZY" Feb 09 21:11:40 how about that Feb 09 21:12:21 there was no announcement about the 'N9', thus it can't be 'not coming' either Feb 09 21:12:30 AWAKE! THIS IS THE *INTERNET* - the place were nothing but the mere truth is written Feb 09 21:12:55 Venemo it can't be not never not coming either Feb 09 21:13:02 So the "News" are only rumours? Feb 09 21:13:15 ArGGu^^: rumors, speculation, FUD, hope, etc. Feb 09 21:13:34 ArGGu^^: unless you can prove them Feb 09 21:13:35 It would be good there is not any other OS that I would want Feb 09 21:13:40 ArGGu^^: reuters is pretty good, yes. but all it said was " two industry sources close to the company said" Feb 09 21:13:47 the only sane thing to do is sit back and watch the fireworks Feb 09 21:14:02 expect kubuntu mobile could be nice Feb 09 21:14:17 when will nokia release the OTA update that disables cell phone functionality of the n900? Feb 09 21:14:30 haha :) Feb 09 21:14:58 lol DocScrutinizer :) Feb 09 21:15:00 that will be fine until next week Feb 09 21:15:11 Did you hear Nokia's switching to WinCE. Feb 09 21:15:14 heh Feb 09 21:15:23 #deFUDcus Feb 09 21:15:46 bye-bye Feb 09 21:15:46 Rumor has it they're moving HQ to Antarctica. Feb 09 21:15:49 will be back later Feb 09 21:16:10 Antarctica is a great tax haven Feb 09 21:16:26 GAN900: it's to get closer to the penguins Feb 09 21:16:51 Proteous: i think Antarctica is like space or military service Feb 09 21:17:12 your country will tax you anyway Feb 09 21:17:15 heh Feb 09 21:17:35 what if the iceberg you are on floats into international waters Feb 09 21:17:39 then anything is possible!! Feb 09 21:17:58 I'm thinking monkey knife fights Feb 09 21:18:57 Proteous, good thinking. Feb 09 21:19:00 this just in: next Nokia device to be called the Nokia Mars. Feb 09 21:19:21 ironically, it will not be "candybar" shaped Feb 09 21:19:26 We already had Rover Feb 09 21:19:28 heh Feb 09 21:19:30 and Sputnik. Feb 09 21:19:39 nokia "lunar lander" Feb 09 21:20:02 Nokia Muffins Feb 09 21:20:07 Mmmm Feb 09 21:20:09 I want some muffins. Feb 09 21:20:40 Nokia Muffin Dispenser Feb 09 21:20:49 maybe that's the radical chance Elop is talking about Feb 09 21:20:54 heh Feb 09 21:21:00 that is change I can get behind Feb 09 21:21:16 or infront of with my hands under the dispenser chute Feb 09 21:21:30 javispedro: source? Feb 09 21:21:37 heh Feb 09 21:21:50 Nokia Sun, and the will adopt the SPARC CPU! Feb 09 21:22:03 RST38h: comes from multiple trusted sources! Feb 09 21:22:23 * DocScrutinizer wants a cryPhone mustard dispenser, for the stylus Wiener sausage Feb 09 21:22:36 the gourmetPhone. Feb 09 21:22:52 but once you eat your stylus coated with tasty tasty mustard you won't be able to use your phone! Feb 09 21:23:02 you'll need a stylus dispenser Feb 09 21:23:22 * javispedro is happy for some unknown reason today Feb 09 21:23:32 it's all the talk of muffins and mustard Feb 09 21:23:38 now that's a perfect product requirement specification for spyPhone6 Feb 09 21:24:08 comes with mustard and Wiener dispenser Feb 09 21:24:35 na, too many fingerprints on the screen. Feb 09 21:25:00 seperatly sold item Feb 09 21:25:03 wiener-prints? Feb 09 21:25:25 automatic screen wiper Feb 09 21:25:33 brilliant! Feb 09 21:25:35 available for only 39,00 Feb 09 21:25:36 indeed! Feb 09 21:25:43 must have! Feb 09 21:25:51 automatic screen wiper, card winshield style is something only Nokia could sell. Feb 09 21:25:59 we have a winner! Feb 09 21:26:05 although if the smudges tasted like wiener-juice people might just lick the scren clean Feb 09 21:26:09 *car winshield ;) Feb 09 21:26:15 *windshield Feb 09 21:26:17 dammit Feb 09 21:26:31 with additional available wiener-app Feb 09 21:26:31 too many windows. Feb 09 21:26:34 sometimes I need to be shielded from win Feb 09 21:27:45 * DocScrutinizer brushes out all the cookie crumbs from keyboard and into muesli Feb 09 21:28:11 out>>4 Feb 09 21:28:58 <_trine> is meego now megone Feb 09 21:29:00 that sounds pretty horrid... Feb 09 21:29:24 <_trine> http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/09/us-nokia-meego-idUSTRE71832O20110209 Feb 09 21:29:37 I'm really really tempted to make a video of Wiener and mustard app on whyPhone, and publish it on uTube Feb 09 21:29:46 * javispedro bangs head again a wiener Feb 09 21:29:51 _trine: topic plx Feb 09 21:29:56 I mean, against a wall =) Feb 09 21:30:09 DocScrutinizer, got anything louder than caps? Feb 09 21:30:24 blinking text maybe? Feb 09 21:30:27 alas not Feb 09 21:30:42 /mode #maemo +m Feb 09 21:30:50 heh Feb 09 21:31:13 #maemo is on lockdown until further notice Feb 09 21:31:21 hehe Feb 09 21:31:39 you could just /topic some rumours about other platforms... Feb 09 21:31:43 i hear nokia is going to abandon the platform they spent millions of dollars to develop, hold a conference for, create alliances with a dozen other companies and a devkit (qt) that they spend billions on + are making an announcement on friday to try to increase support for, in exchange for an unproven platform with smaller adoption and app base than symbian that's been out for only a few months (wm7) Feb 09 21:31:55 i heard the next iphone will run windows phone 7 Feb 09 21:32:05 it sounds legit to me Feb 09 21:32:09 +m+i+q ~$a Feb 09 21:32:11 and android is removing support for apps in the next update. Feb 09 21:32:30 nokia is bringing back qtopia Feb 09 21:32:33 it'll be awesome Feb 09 21:32:38 you are far from the truth, which is that next quarter every handheld is going to be running my own OS. Feb 09 21:32:54 it's going to be featuring multi-optification! Feb 09 21:33:11 will it support kinetic scrolling? Feb 09 21:33:13 awesome! Feb 09 21:33:18 because that's a +1 over qt/symbian! Feb 09 21:33:31 it will support relativistic scrolling. Feb 09 21:33:33 I heard iPhone OS *is* winmo7, just with a special skin Feb 09 21:33:34 <_trine> well at the moment its pie in the sky Feb 09 21:33:40 javispedro: a multiply-optified version of Darwin! Feb 09 21:34:35 i think nokia is already experiencing darwinism Feb 09 21:35:20 I think the next OS replacing meego is called mc^2 Feb 09 21:35:33 or SHR? Feb 09 21:35:34 :P Feb 09 21:35:34 I'd wish someone used that as a trademark :) Feb 09 21:35:43 maybe nokia will join with samsung to do bada Feb 09 21:35:43 with hurd kernel Feb 09 21:35:53 BadaBingGo. Feb 09 21:35:55 and a BSD-derived userland. Feb 09 21:36:11 badaboom Feb 09 21:36:16 "Nokia buys Solaris from Oracle as a new mobile phone platform" Feb 09 21:36:19 big badabooom Feb 09 21:36:35 ieatlint: ok, that would nearly be totally awesome Feb 09 21:36:58 as Willis said in "5th element" Feb 09 21:37:03 Ok I'm going to use all of the Nokia inside knowledge I got from #maemo to write next rumours article. Feb 09 21:37:03 i,ve heard duke nukem will apper on the next nokia platform Feb 09 21:37:10 the phone will just be a thinclient now, running VNC to a nokia server where they will decide how your phone runs Feb 09 21:37:35 javispedro: i was starting to wonder, actually, whether the "two source close to the company" were in here Feb 09 21:37:40 ^sources Feb 09 21:37:49 i mean, it didn't say they were *in* the company Feb 09 21:37:58 ieatlint: nah, Apple has patents on that Feb 09 21:38:01 everytime I read that I usually laugh deep inside. Feb 09 21:38:05 the big deal will be an x86 powered mobile device running Unity on Wayland. Feb 09 21:38:19 lol Feb 09 21:38:21 chx: heh, that's the best so far Feb 09 21:38:31 ubuntu 12.04 Feb 09 21:38:32 DocScrutinizer: haha, i want to see apple get a patent on "controlling a user's device against their wishes" Feb 09 21:38:40 "sources close to the company" =) if anyone inside the company knew what they were planning to do, half of the problem would be solved already Feb 09 21:38:46 ThreeM: yes, and it will be shipped ony then but announced now!@ Feb 09 21:38:51 pretty soon apple will stop selling phones and start just leasing them Feb 09 21:39:03 so, just out of curiosity (and a little worry), is there any truth to the rumors? Feb 09 21:39:13 "uh, you did something we don't like. surrender your phone now" Feb 09 21:39:16 that Nokia will be slaughtering 1000 MS-supplied puppies on friday? Feb 09 21:39:23 Dhraakellian: no one knows Feb 09 21:39:33 Dhraakellian: that's good eatin' Feb 09 21:39:40 javispedro: X-D Feb 09 21:39:45 ieatlint: doubt it, that would actually benefit the customers, what with the non-replaceable battery and all Feb 09 21:39:49 ieatlint: in Korea! Feb 09 21:39:54 won't somebody please think of the kitte^Wpuppies‽ Feb 09 21:40:30 BCMM: no no, you just charge them $40/mo, and if they return it with scratches or similar, charge huge fees Feb 09 21:40:35 it'll be like cars Feb 09 21:40:43 heh Feb 09 21:40:45 ieatlint: but I own my car outright :/ Feb 09 21:40:57 yeah, but my comparison was to the leasing model for cars Feb 09 21:40:58 truthfully, my optimism is slipping, but in the end, we have the code Feb 09 21:41:04 hp/palm does the "many sizes" thing http://blog.palm.com/palm/2011/02/hp-webos-the-next-big-thing-and-the-next-small-thing-too.html Feb 09 21:41:05 and we still have the n900s we already bought Feb 09 21:41:14 Dhraakellian: you have code that's severely outdated Feb 09 21:41:17 ieatlint: which is the worst way to own a car Feb 09 21:41:22 and not enough to actually run the shit on the n900 even Feb 09 21:41:27 well the question is, will they release harmattan or not Feb 09 21:41:34 we know they have *something* Feb 09 21:41:40 wmarone: yeah, well, i've never leased a car either... own mine outright Feb 09 21:41:45 stop harshing my mellow, dude Feb 09 21:41:59 ieatlint: BZZZZZ! wrong Feb 09 21:42:02 all this FUD is being generated by Oracle, so they can buy Nokia cheaper. Feb 09 21:42:08 DocScrutinizer: i'm never wrong Feb 09 21:42:31 oracle the tax parasite Feb 09 21:42:39 BCMM: and MS is allowing it because dead meego/handset is good for WP7? Feb 09 21:42:41 BCMM: that could be more true than you might think Feb 09 21:42:42 if elison buys nokia, i'm going to cry and then curse him again Feb 09 21:42:48 * Dhraakellian goes to look for some epileptic trees Feb 09 21:42:54 elison is a tick Feb 09 21:43:08 ieatlint: he's too busy choking down Sun's corpse Feb 09 21:43:09 SPOOOON! Feb 09 21:43:10 everyone hates elison... Feb 09 21:43:13 btw if http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/palm_pre/ this is possible then ... why not buy a HP Veer or something? Feb 09 21:43:29 not me Feb 09 21:43:37 NFC what's an elison Feb 09 21:43:45 chx: cause I can already do that Feb 09 21:43:48 wmarone: we have to keep reminding him that he's not iron man Feb 09 21:44:08 DocScrutinizer: ceo/founder of oracle is larry elison... about the most arrogant bastard you can imagine Feb 09 21:44:12 ieatlint: well, if he tries to fly in a metal suit and fails, we win, right? Feb 09 21:44:17 heh Feb 09 21:44:38 Dhraakellian: he's arrogant, not stupid Feb 09 21:44:45 ieatlint: if I see Larry Ellison flying through the sky in a metal suit.... I might buy Oracle stock Feb 09 21:44:55 haha Feb 09 21:45:00 * DocScrutinizer tossing in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE just for the cheers Feb 09 21:45:01 but he also paid to have a cameo in iron man, and if you watch it, you'll see a LOT of oracle references in the movie Feb 09 21:45:38 * javispedro envisions Larry giving a press conference.... "Guys... I'm ... Ironman". Feb 09 21:46:06 i think we need to find a good Larry impersonator... Feb 09 21:46:20 I am your FATHER... Feb 09 21:46:23 but how would that compare to "developers! developers! developers!"? Feb 09 21:46:29 DocScrutinizer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbutnD0hVo4 Feb 09 21:47:17 he's known here for telling the FAA and a local airport to go fuck themselves (for landing a plane after hours), for shutting down a major street in san francisco once a week for his conference, and for renting an island in the san francisco bay for the party and fucking up traffic on a major bridge to it Feb 09 21:47:19 see, I should've clicked DocScrutinizer's link before saying anything Feb 09 21:48:24 Developers, Developers, Developers, you guys matter! Develop for our platforms! Ignore the rumours that say they're burning! Feb 09 21:48:26 i think he pays something like $2m just to have the street shut down for the week... maybe more Feb 09 21:48:43 i can hear very faint crackling noises from my thinkpad Feb 09 21:49:04 when they get to be loud crackling noises then you should worry Feb 09 21:49:06 not before Feb 09 21:49:16 then your backlight will go out Feb 09 21:49:31 from the ethernet port Feb 09 21:49:31 then you replace the backlight transformer and go on Feb 09 21:49:46 stop trying to charge your battery with POE Feb 09 21:50:05 maybe the vga port Feb 09 21:50:54 yeah i thought it must be the transformer for power as well Proteous Feb 09 21:51:03 where can i get decent free crosswords for xword? Feb 09 21:51:21 maybe it is - plugging in the power supply dampens the noise a lot Feb 09 21:55:32 LjL: I'd think there's an app for that :-D Feb 09 21:57:36 DocScrutinizer, do you mean there's an app to fetch free crosswords? if so pointer please, i couldn't find anything :P Feb 09 21:59:58 LjL: sorry no, just kidding Feb 09 22:00:19 ah. well there *is* an app for that... on Android :P *hides* Feb 09 22:01:13 there's been some crossword program that combines arbitrary words from dictionary to form a crossword, but that's rather useless without proper descriptions of the words I guess Feb 09 22:02:07 DocScrutinizer: there is? does it create actual crosswords, or more like things where 90% of it is blank? because i've been looking for the former Feb 09 22:02:36 umm, dunno Feb 09 22:02:44