**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Feb 10 02:59:57 2011 Feb 10 03:40:32 hello Feb 10 04:37:29 did nokia really kill off the N9? this makes me want to hulk smash! Feb 10 04:38:01 javispedro: you mean C++? Feb 10 04:38:42 no, I mean C 201x, google it Feb 10 04:38:45 i did Feb 10 04:38:48 C++ came up first Feb 10 04:40:43 Gorroth: We don't know. It's all rumor at this point Feb 10 04:41:08 Something will probably carry the "N9" label... but what the hardware behind that is... Feb 10 04:45:11 yeah Feb 10 04:45:17 i just want it to be a phone, not a tablet Feb 10 04:45:20 i mean, tablets are welcome Feb 10 04:45:24 but i want a phone first Feb 10 04:45:48 It'll probably be like the n900 - mostly tablet, with phone functionality Feb 10 04:46:09 something that's a phone formost is probably reserved for low-end devices. Feb 10 04:46:29 mmm, well, they probably should rethink that Feb 10 04:46:47 Hell, I'd argue the same about the iphone and androud Feb 10 04:46:50 *android Feb 10 04:47:33 Phone functionality's just low end. What we're dealing with is a phone "module" plugged into a computer - literally, in almost all cases Feb 10 04:48:03 yeah, that is readily apparent in maemo Feb 10 04:48:10 needs to be seemless Feb 10 04:48:12 seamless Feb 10 04:48:50 eh, I disagree. For most people using one of these, the amount of time used as a phone is comparitively small Feb 10 04:49:09 not a good argument Feb 10 04:49:12 but i digress Feb 10 04:49:22 nokia has been dogging with symbian Feb 10 04:49:51 Personally, I just took an old Nokia dumbphone and used that as my phone - It's got excellent battery life because it's never used Feb 10 04:49:58 you think nokia would all of the sudden scrap all symbian for maemo/meego? Feb 10 04:50:33 N900's for everything else; that way I never run out of battery when I -need- phone functionality. And of course, I can always stick my sim in the n900 if I want it at some point Feb 10 04:50:43 (like if I get a data plan cheaply) Feb 10 04:52:22 psycho_oreos: I don't think they have enough fecs up to speed to get meego to mass market. Feb 10 04:52:42 SpeedEvil, fecs? Feb 10 04:53:27 ~google fecs Feb 10 04:53:32 I have no idea what I tried to type there Feb 10 04:53:42 enough coders Feb 10 04:53:53 lol stupid bot.. meh Feb 10 04:54:08 I think meego will probably get to market - Intel's got deep pockets, regardless of Nokia Feb 10 04:54:18 Sure. Feb 10 04:54:18 yeah well their main focus has been symbian, even after sacking a fair portion of symbian devs Feb 10 04:54:32 But will meego get to market quickly? Feb 10 04:54:54 I also think Symbian's not gonna disappear - They are still selling many million devices. Feb 10 04:56:01 no it won't disappear, my point is that nokia treated maemo like a niche market sort of thing hence the lack of functionality for this and that.. and when it came to n900, it was delivered poorly Feb 10 04:57:58 intel may have deep pockets but they won't like to do with the ARM platform for too long Feb 10 04:58:00 maybe the marketing/sales but the phone itself is one I wouldn't swap for an iphone Feb 10 04:58:17 s/do/deal/ Feb 10 04:58:17 psycho_oreos meant: intel may have deep pockets but they won't like to deal with the ARM platform for too long Feb 10 04:58:27 well a Nokia phone with an Intel Atom is not a bad idea in my head Feb 10 04:58:37 is the power usage comparable? Feb 10 04:59:20 well there has been rumors of phones with Intel Atom hitting the market this year Feb 10 04:59:22 it won't be powered by atom, it'll be some really small intel x86 chipset, that was codenamed moorestown and has been available in aava mobile Feb 10 04:59:47 RobbieThe1st: thanks for the idea you gave me Feb 10 04:59:50 Pankaj Kedia, the Director of Intel’s Global Ecosystem Programs has shown us the first Atom-powered phones, one of which is from LG (model GW990). Feb 10 05:00:02 (that was several months ago) Feb 10 05:00:12 DocScrutinizer: And which was that? Feb 10 05:00:14 but it was kinda usless Feb 10 05:00:23 then they said the next generation will consume 10 times less power Feb 10 05:00:43 and cheaper by the dozen? :) Feb 10 05:01:05 you need a phone that works, even when you leeched battery empty on N900 with 'other usage' Feb 10 05:01:34 Oh yea. That -would- be a good idea Feb 10 05:01:47 Like a backup battery or disabled functionality at 10-20% charge? Feb 10 05:01:56 so the case of concern is: N900 stopped data nad irc and whatnot, and you need a working phone Feb 10 05:02:09 yes Feb 10 05:02:14 exactly Feb 10 05:02:27 10% should be enough Feb 10 05:03:00 for me data is more important than being able to get a phone call. I rarely use the phone as an actual phone :) Feb 10 05:03:08 data and sms that is Feb 10 05:03:34 hehe, I'll come up with a nice lil app tomorrow Feb 10 05:03:54 heh Feb 10 05:04:09 I'd install that just for the coolness of it :) one more reason not to get an iphone Feb 10 05:26:54 Hi! I'm trying to install `findutils' but aptitude suggests that `busybox' be removed? Is that OK? The score is 298727 Feb 10 05:30:23 No, it's not OK Feb 10 05:31:07 http://maemo.org/packages/view/findutils-gnu/ I think is the right package Feb 10 05:31:16 it does not replace busybox find, but adds gfind Feb 10 05:36:19 Venemo: updated puzzlemaster. Sorry but it's reaaly much less nice and snappy and smooth than before Feb 10 05:37:18 and after solving the puzzle it seems it segfaulted on clicking randomly on the tiles Feb 10 05:39:29 SpeedEvil: It's not OK since busyboy is a integral part of the system? Feb 10 05:39:35 What package has `locate'? Feb 10 05:42:17 My new netbook (dual core atom N550) lasts me a day and has 55% battery left Feb 10 05:42:42 of course I don't open the lid as often as I pick up my N900.. and my N900 doesn't go into full suspend when I put it in my pocket.. Feb 10 05:44:46 It takes like 3 seconds to hybrid suspend, which is fast for a x86, but still very slow Feb 10 05:45:38 on OLPC they could throw out the BIOS and use some opensource replacement, so they could actually enter suspend while still displaying a page of text on screen, and come out of suspend fast enough when user moved mouse that it was seamless more or less :D Feb 10 05:55:13 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHy3b7tsSyk Japan - Ghosts Feb 10 06:04:08 ebzzry: yes - it will break. Feb 10 06:04:55 RIP Mick Karn Feb 10 06:05:31 ebzzry: busybox is absolutely required for the system to boot. Even if you replace it with 'compatible' gnu tools, it won't work, due to busyboxisms in the scripts. Feb 10 06:05:32 nice version Feb 10 06:07:04 indeed Feb 10 06:07:26 just woke up from a dream, hearing/singing that song with different lyrics Feb 10 06:08:28 SpeedEvil: I've semi-bricked my system many times as a result of experimentation (replacing /bin/sh, among others). I find it odd that aptitude gives such a high score Feb 10 06:08:42 SpeedEvil: Since we're on that topic, is there an existing locate+updatedb package for Maemo 5? Feb 10 06:08:58 SpeedEvil: Or is the solution is "roll your own"? Feb 10 06:10:16 Go to http://maemo.org/packages/ - right click on the search box, and add it to a shortcut. Then simply type 'p locate' into the location bar. Feb 10 06:10:36 http://maemo.org/packages/view/locate/ Feb 10 06:11:07 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmoDLyiQYKw Feb 10 06:13:40 Thanks Feb 10 07:39:09 SpeedEvil: Is it OK to point /usr/bin/find to /usr/bin/gfind? Feb 10 08:04:15 ebzzry: I'd move /usr/bin/gfind into the rootfs first though Feb 10 08:04:26 It's - IIRC - symlinked from the optfs Feb 10 08:04:58 also, install backupmenu first; you'll likely need to reflash if you make a mistake otherwise Feb 10 08:13:44 good morning Feb 10 08:29:18 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> a belated good morning to you too Feb 10 08:32:45 lol just saw intel jobs for students. they have Atom SoC Development Group for tablet and netbook development =) Feb 10 08:33:37 Yes. So, what is wrong with it? Feb 10 08:34:01 most of it for hardware development =) Feb 10 08:34:33 RST38h i think it's meego related Feb 10 08:34:41 Expected, given Intel's industrial orientation Feb 10 08:35:05 and RST38h shut up, i don't want to talk to russians ))) Feb 10 08:35:19 ZogG: No. You have most likely found a UMG job Feb 10 08:35:29 UMG stands for? Feb 10 08:35:30 RobbieAB1: Hmm, but gfind is located in /usr/bin/gnu/find Feb 10 08:35:37 ZogG: If you want Meego, look for SSG jobs Feb 10 08:36:07 ZogG: Ultra Mobility Group Feb 10 08:36:11 RST38h do you read habr Feb 10 08:36:21 ZogG: Nope Feb 10 08:36:28 RST38h APG is better Feb 10 08:36:51 ZogG: Meego is mostly done by OTC, so look for a job there Feb 10 08:36:55 RST38h you probably one of those who read 2ch =) Feb 10 08:37:01 No. Feb 10 08:37:15 Oops Feb 10 08:37:21 RobbieThe1st: Hmm, but gfind is located in /usr/bin/gnu/find Feb 10 08:37:43 make sure that's not a symlink Feb 10 08:37:44 RST38h are you on linux? Feb 10 08:37:52 ZogG: Win7. Feb 10 08:37:58 buu =) Feb 10 08:38:05 RobbieThe1st: It isn't. By the way, is the boot process dependent on an existence of 'find'? Feb 10 08:38:33 maybe! Feb 10 08:38:37 maemo is weird like that Feb 10 08:38:45 Probaby Feb 10 08:38:45 it's probably dependent on the phase of the moon Feb 10 08:39:52 Can anyone confirm it? Feb 10 08:39:58 Ok, looks like there will be more fear and loathing here today, given the new wave of news abut Nokia switching to WP7 Feb 10 08:40:34 RST38h i don't get who started that rumor Feb 10 08:40:42 not me! Feb 10 08:41:01 oh, got ya Feb 10 08:41:07 ZogG: There are multiple sources, so it is no longer a rumor Feb 10 08:41:25 like RST38h would say "on robber the hat is on fire" Feb 10 08:41:40 RST38h i don't think it's even logical Feb 10 08:41:48 all the sources are the same Feb 10 08:41:48 ZogG: does not have to be logical Feb 10 08:41:55 one started rumors and here we go Feb 10 08:41:56 * RST38h is kinda tired to repeat that btw Feb 10 08:42:01 http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-02-09/nokia-is-said-to-be-near-partnership-with-microsoft.html Feb 10 08:43:17 windows on my n900! Feb 10 08:43:27 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-10/nokia-said-to-be-near-partnership-to-use-microsoft-software-on-handsets.html Feb 10 08:43:41 RST38h i say meego+wp7+android+rim's os = nokia new Os Feb 10 08:43:43 OS Feb 10 08:43:56 Pavlov where are your dogs man? Feb 10 08:44:00 http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/04/technology/04nokia.html Feb 10 08:44:13 RST38h they just copy paste from each other Feb 10 08:44:19 it's not true Feb 10 08:44:20 ZogG, Nokia will just ship phones with no OS direct to end-users Feb 10 08:44:21 NOOO Feb 10 08:44:46 i don't want to hear anything from it anymore, ba babababa (can't hear you) lalalalalala Feb 10 08:44:59 johnx: Hasn't OpenMoko done that? =) Feb 10 08:45:09 johnx, no, they would ship pictures of phones Feb 10 08:45:30 ZogG, nah. it's just playing to their core competency: hardware Feb 10 08:45:40 so actually, maybe they'll just ship plastic cases Feb 10 08:46:04 so I Guess everyone luled over the Ellop letter on engadget already? :) Feb 10 08:46:25 johnx or all parts and you need to connect them and a box to put in there Feb 10 08:46:37 tybollt he wrote letter? Feb 10 08:46:44 tybollt, yeah. there was a spirted discussion Feb 10 08:46:52 everyone brushed up on your Qt bindings for silverlight? Feb 10 08:46:57 about burning gasoline/ Feb 10 08:46:59 ? Feb 10 08:47:55 i heard new thing instead Qt is mono Feb 10 08:48:03 mono ftw Feb 10 08:48:10 let's spread rumors ) Feb 10 08:48:24 ZogG, it was something about standing about pouring gasoline on a burning scaffolding. I think it was meant to be a warning to people doing home renovation Feb 10 08:48:59 johnx: Personally reminded me of a medieval witch execution method Feb 10 08:49:24 johnx: Where they tied the witch to some logs, fired her up, and sent her sailing Feb 10 08:49:27 RST38h, naaah. I watched a documentary once. I think they throw them in the water and see if they float Feb 10 08:49:54 johnx: right, but it is also necessary to ignite the witch for better show Feb 10 08:49:55 johnx, yeah i saw also people laughing about last time they said android is like peeing to warm yourself and about Nokia burring one Os after another =) Feb 10 08:50:30 johnx: Anyways, there is still a possibility this whole thing will blow off Feb 10 08:51:05 i don't belive in any WP7 on nokia Feb 10 08:51:06 johnx: they compare them to duck weight. no need to throw them in water ! Feb 10 08:51:15 heh. My bet: They announce all Nokia E-series phones will continue to have Exchange support or something Feb 10 08:51:30 johnx: Nokia will release a few WP7 phones for the US market, the phones will [expectedly] tank, the corpses go back to square 1\ Feb 10 08:51:34 marmoute, ah. you saw the same documentary! Feb 10 08:51:55 RST38h, also sounds familiar. It worked sooo well for Palm Feb 10 08:52:05 marmoute: Actually, the threshold is not a duck weight, it is ~40kg Feb 10 08:52:24 marmoute: Heavier girls can't fly through a chimney Feb 10 08:52:38 johnx: SGI too, I think Feb 10 08:52:56 marmoute, what was the presenter's name? Mr. Python? Feb 10 08:53:06 johnx: Is anyone buying those WP7 phones, anyway? Feb 10 08:53:31 johnx: Or is it a new Zune? Feb 10 08:53:52 RST38h, soooo, I actually live like 10 minutes from MS HQ. I hang out with a lot of the MS guys on a regularish basis. Of the 8 or so I know, I think two (a husband and wife) have a WP7 phone Feb 10 08:54:17 but android adoption was not super quick either Feb 10 08:54:36 johnx: So, what DO they have? RAZRs? Feb 10 08:54:36 given time I think it will eek out a decent little niche next to Android for one reason or another Feb 10 08:54:43 johnx i bet they got WP7 phones cause they don't care and it was for free Feb 10 08:54:48 RST38h, iphones. android. one has an n900 Feb 10 08:54:56 johnx: OMG Feb 10 08:55:05 johnx KILL HIM Feb 10 08:55:13 ZogG, my point being that they could *all* have them for free. and most *don't* Feb 10 08:55:27 johnx: Well, I have checked a few WP7 reviews and the thing looks awful Feb 10 08:55:36 i want to take iphone now for contrqct for free Feb 10 08:55:50 as it has a lot of demand in Israel Feb 10 08:55:53 and to sell it Feb 10 08:56:01 just not sure to do it or wait Feb 10 08:56:12 johnx: Not clear why anyone would buy something like that, given a choice of Android and iPhone phones Feb 10 08:56:13 maybe i can take n8 for free as well Feb 10 08:56:34 but i wouldn't chnage n900 anyway so it's btter phone i can sell easily Feb 10 08:56:53 RST38h, i don't get why people buy iphone at all Feb 10 08:56:56 RST38h, the two people I know who have them didn't pay for them, AFAIK. I don't remember what dept they work in, but they might also have work involving them Feb 10 08:57:04 i think there are two things iphone is awesome Feb 10 08:57:15 1st is tap tap revenge game Feb 10 08:57:21 2nd is in selling Feb 10 08:57:35 it's just iPhone feature to be awesome in sellings with no reason =) Feb 10 08:57:49 it's like mystery Feb 10 09:11:56 hey all Feb 10 09:15:24 hello Feb 10 09:39:25 Morning Feb 10 09:39:26 ! Feb 10 10:01:02 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> morning again Feb 10 10:01:15 morning agagin [DrkGUNMAN-N900] Feb 10 10:01:17 :) Feb 10 10:04:34 morning Feb 10 10:04:55 is the CSSU wifi module a bit buggy? Feb 10 10:10:32 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> havent had any problems with wifi since installing cssu. whats up? Feb 10 10:20:57 where was the wpa_cli package hidden? Feb 10 10:41:23 hi there Feb 10 10:42:11 heh, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12391129 Feb 10 10:43:50 alterego: ridiculous Feb 10 10:47:21 MohammadAG: you should ask the islamic church to bless your quaran app Feb 10 10:47:32 chem|st: didn't have any Feb 10 10:49:12 Hahah Feb 10 10:50:45 alterego: :D Feb 10 10:51:44 bbl :) Feb 10 10:55:30 Hi, guys. I bought n900. I have a ssh access. And now I have a question: How I can know the version of installed Maemo OS? Feb 10 10:56:54 larin, settings -> about product Feb 10 10:57:39 the current release is 20.2010.36-2 aka PR1.3 Feb 10 10:58:13 johnx, Maemo 5, Version: 20.2010.36-2 Feb 10 10:58:24 johnx, thx) Feb 10 11:04:42 Khertan: what handles wpa then? Feb 10 11:05:28 chem|st: what's the problem with it ? i use wpa on my wifi routers with my n900 without problem Feb 10 11:05:36 (i ven't change the settings since the update) Feb 10 11:06:16 Khertan: I am looking for some kind of debug info and or cli interface Feb 10 11:06:56 i ven't change the settings either Feb 10 11:07:18 the wifi on n900 works fine, it was a radius prox error Feb 10 11:07:53 hey there Feb 10 11:08:06 which is the fastest psx emulator for n900 Feb 10 11:08:11 Khertan do you read twitter replies? Feb 10 11:08:27 Pillum: are there many? Feb 10 11:08:32 ZogG: of course why ? Feb 10 11:08:47 ZogG: but i'm at the office right now :) Feb 10 11:09:11 Khertan cause :1st i twutted you, 2nd if you use phone and i'm not in your followers list you can't see me Feb 10 11:09:21 chem|st: dunno, how many are there? :D Feb 10 11:09:24 you gonna go for qml as i assume Feb 10 11:09:43 Pillum: if there is only one the question is obsolete Feb 10 11:09:50 so you can make nice menu like in new gpodder Feb 10 11:09:52 (12:08:27) ZogG: Khertan cause :1st i twutted you, 2nd if you use phone and i'm not in your followers list you can't see me <<< but khweeteur unified view show reply :) Feb 10 11:10:16 Khertan what? Feb 10 11:10:20 ZogG: didn't see the menu of qml gpodder Feb 10 11:10:38 ok before that btw if you reminded me Feb 10 11:10:53 on twit menu you have 5 buttons and place for one more =) Feb 10 11:11:40 maybe you should add "view conversation" or "mention" there, mention is if i want to mention person but do not want to reply to this certain twit Feb 10 11:12:01 ZogG: the one more isn't ready ... (this place is reserve for direct message) Feb 10 11:12:18 ZogG: but i think i ll change the ui with the qml switch Feb 10 11:12:24 ok Feb 10 11:12:32 Khertan, http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4154/5416637626_be571d26a0.jpg Feb 10 11:12:35 check this one Feb 10 11:12:37 will be a bit the same ... but better Feb 10 11:12:53 oh ... it s fullscreen Feb 10 11:13:08 that is new gpodder UI, NSFW as it's too sexy =) Feb 10 11:13:19 really not bad Feb 10 11:13:24 Khertan, wazd helped thp to do it Feb 10 11:13:41 Khertan, that's what i wanted to ask Feb 10 11:14:07 it you do something like that you can put your own buttons between minimize and close Feb 10 11:14:11 hum ... git ... copu / paste Feb 10 11:14:14 it would be nice to have menu Feb 10 11:14:25 exactly what i think Feb 10 11:14:42 like hom/mentions/DMs/list Feb 10 11:14:49 home* Feb 10 11:15:03 like in android and other crappy phones clients =) Feb 10 11:15:07 but better Feb 10 11:15:11 as maemo ftw =) Feb 10 11:15:15 ZogG: i was thinking more of unified/home/dm/mentions/search/list Feb 10 11:15:31 what for unified? Feb 10 11:15:35 never got it Feb 10 11:15:40 search is nice Feb 10 11:15:50 ZogG: did you use chrome browser ? Feb 10 11:15:52 mentions should be second as it's more important Feb 10 11:16:01 Khertan, yes i do, so? Feb 10 11:16:10 try chromedbird extension Feb 10 11:16:39 i think i used it once Feb 10 11:16:43 i use hotot Feb 10 11:17:22 can you just explaine what for this unified thing? Feb 10 11:18:37 Khertan: Trouble is I don't want to have to scroll through when catching up in the morning to see if I've got a mention. Having a combined timeline for during the day, but also a Blackberry-Twitter style alert/notification for DMs & mentions Feb 10 11:19:53 i think home is for who i follow(including mentions) Feb 10 11:20:09 mentions is for mentions also from people outside the following list Feb 10 11:20:28 and it's if i want to "chat" on twiiter Feb 10 11:21:28 Khertan, as well it's interesting if it's possible to make auto nickname completion with qml =) for HW keyboard as it wouldn't work for virtual Feb 10 11:21:29 ZogG: Unified is home + dm + mentions Feb 10 11:21:34 +retweet Feb 10 11:21:44 morning Feb 10 11:22:00 Jaffa: Khertan: Trouble is I don't want to have to scroll through when catching up in the morning to see if I've got a mention. Having a combined timeline for during the day, but also a Blackberry-Twitter style alert/notification for DMs & mentions <<<- planned Feb 10 11:22:17 Khertan, meh, it's useless to have everything when you can choose what you want; it's like in maemo msging system all ims and twitts and sms all together Feb 10 11:22:28 i prefer extra click than this mess Feb 10 11:22:30 Jaffa: with the qml ui, i ll demonoize the info retrieving Feb 10 11:22:36 Jaffa: any mileage in grabbing the list of IPs from anonymous and non-anonymous wiki editors and trying to work out how many of the anonymous ones were actually members with logins who just weren't using them? Feb 10 11:23:05 Khertan anyway retwitted ( your by others ) doesn't work properly on twitter Feb 10 11:23:16 ZogG: yep i know Feb 10 11:24:01 ZogG: documentation say it should be in the unified api call Feb 10 11:24:04 but it s not Feb 10 11:24:09 but sometimes is Feb 10 11:24:09 Khertan, and it would be nice to have option to RT with comment, i mean yeah, it's cool RT @khertan http://awesomeurl.com Feb 10 11:24:19 "yeah, it's cool RT @khertan http://awesomeurl.com" Feb 10 11:24:22 :) Feb 10 11:24:37 ok ... i should made a roadmap :) Feb 10 11:24:44 too many things to remember Feb 10 11:24:57 most of twitts i just retwiit with new retwit but some i want to comment =( Feb 10 11:25:45 Khertan i can help you with my ideas how i see it, but you don't have to take them all you know but anytime you want i'm here or there or on twiiter =) Feb 10 11:26:43 Khertan as well as you can use main instead of home/unified and in option i choose if it would be home or unified =) Feb 10 11:28:08 lardman: Given the state of the community, I dunno if the "easy entry" is still a requirement. But we might get an influx of new members if a) the N9 is awesome and loads of N900s go for sale; b) the N9 never gets released/doesn't meet ppl's requirements and there's suddenly a demand for N900s as the zenith ;-) Feb 10 11:29:31 Jaffa meh noone would like n900 Feb 10 11:29:39 only those who got it and stick with it Feb 10 11:29:53 as i don't see meego on n900 coz of the old HW Feb 10 11:30:05 i have to say that N900 is the kind of an phone that grows on you the more you use it Feb 10 11:30:20 a casual, non techy user is probably going to sell it and buy something else Feb 10 11:30:44 but for others.. it just becomes better and better all the time Feb 10 11:30:46 and it would be miracle if Nokia would succeed to promote N900 for developers when they failed once and aboded Os already Feb 10 11:31:05 akikhaw agreed Feb 10 11:31:31 i was so sorry for n900 after i saw cool androids but i played with android and n900 is much better again for me Feb 10 11:31:43 i just think the UI in android is much better Feb 10 11:31:55 it's more phone UI but the way they did it Feb 10 11:31:56 i loke the ui in maemo better :) Feb 10 11:32:35 fast, shot ways to do somethink, not so many menüs Feb 10 11:32:39 i like it :) Feb 10 11:33:03 ThreeM, i mean not whole UI but small things, for e.g. portrait/landscape. the way you can change lockscreen, virtual keyboards Feb 10 11:33:05 ZogG: Who said anything about N900s running MeeGo? If Nokia's MeeGo handsets aren't what people who've been holding off buying want, they might buy N900s instead Feb 10 11:33:31 ZogG: Eh? you can change the lockscreen on Maemo; it's jut no-one does Feb 10 11:33:48 in maemo it was developed as one solution in android all those parts are like puzzle, you change this with that and you don't need to patch and change whole system Feb 10 11:34:08 Jaffa, MohammadAG is planing Feb 10 11:34:32 Jaffa, i just think the API of android as the system is more easy Feb 10 11:34:43 maybe i'm wrong as i'm total noob in it =) Feb 10 11:35:00 API /framework or what eever you call it Feb 10 11:35:17 maemo has QT Feb 10 11:35:30 ThreeM, no it DOESN't Feb 10 11:35:35 android can never has a better framework than that Feb 10 11:35:36 it has no QT Feb 10 11:36:08 ZogG: MohammadAG is plan[n]ing? Planning what? Feb 10 11:36:13 ThreeM, 1st of all you misunderstand me, i'm not talking about apps, i'm talking about system Feb 10 11:36:26 Jaffa to make bubbles like in nokia lab for n900 Feb 10 11:36:36 maemo has QT4.7 with PR 1.3 Feb 10 11:36:53 ThreeM, there is no such thing as QT4.7 Feb 10 11:36:54 ChristanObject.connect(:God, :sign => Jesus.new2, :action => :repent) Feb 10 11:37:06 ThreeM, it's Qt for god sakes Feb 10 11:37:15 Qt!Qt!Qt! Feb 10 11:37:22 QT is quicktime Feb 10 11:37:30 I'm thinking of developing a religious programming language. Feb 10 11:37:45 ~google QT quick time Feb 10 11:38:55 ThreeM, and qt is something different at all, it's for application development or certain parts of UI but not UI itself as far as i understand Feb 10 11:39:42 sure you can use QT to draw all the ui Feb 10 11:39:58 ThreeM, for example as we talked above, gpodder is rewritten with QML and use it's own system menu, but you can't easly change that as the system wide menu Feb 10 11:40:07 that's what i am talking about Feb 10 11:40:17 ahh ok Feb 10 11:40:28 ThreeM, and it's Qt, maaaaan Feb 10 11:41:44 ThreeM, http://extension.informer.com/qt/ Feb 10 11:42:46 alterego if you make difficult programming language person that uses it can became religion or atheist and swear you till rest of his life =) Feb 10 11:44:15 lol Feb 10 11:44:29 meego for netbooks is dead =) Feb 10 11:44:40 http://www.linux-magazin.de/NEWS/Tschuess-Smeegol-Entwickler-stoppt-Meego-fuer-Opensuse Feb 10 11:46:11 cause of tablets Feb 10 11:46:14 old news ;) Feb 10 11:46:45 ~ping Feb 10 11:46:46 ~pong Feb 10 11:47:44 http://www.palm.com/us/products/pads/touchpad/index.html Feb 10 11:49:47 hey there Feb 10 11:49:54 Jaffa, http://newsflow.substanceofcode.com/ - you should add it to MWKN Feb 10 11:50:00 has anyone some info about the musb of the n900? Feb 10 11:50:07 I'm trying to test it Feb 10 11:50:19 with high bandwidth transfers but it seems impossible Feb 10 11:50:27 ZogG: Did, weeks ago. Feb 10 11:50:45 Jaffa oh didn't saw it there, sorry =( Feb 10 11:56:18 can anyone tell me what "tr" does in this line : menu = menuBar()->addMenu(tr("MENU TITLE")); Feb 10 11:56:39 trx: Trunk? Feb 10 11:56:58 * phellarv is guessing Feb 10 11:57:02 trunk? Feb 10 11:57:16 I mean truncate Feb 10 11:58:00 so its a function that truncates the string? Feb 10 11:58:14 why would that be nessesary :/ Feb 10 11:58:23 * trx doesnt know Feb 10 11:58:28 Dunno - As I said - I'm guessing Feb 10 11:58:33 yeah Feb 10 11:58:38 ty anyway Feb 10 11:58:47 trx: Translate Feb 10 11:59:04 trx: "MENU TITLE" will be a key into one of the translation bundles. Feb 10 11:59:06 (again, guessing) Feb 10 11:59:19 trx: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/latest/qobject.html#tr translate, as Jaffa said Feb 10 11:59:22 Guesstimates Feb 10 11:59:26 ;-P Feb 10 11:59:36 oh Feb 10 11:59:43 that makes sense :) Feb 10 11:59:48 thank you guys Feb 10 12:20:56 ruskie, for now i did the app with control buttons only for xmms2 =) Feb 10 12:21:09 only play/stop/next/forward Feb 10 12:21:24 need to get a long with Qt as xmms2 api is pretty easy Feb 10 12:22:18 :) Feb 10 12:41:27 * Khertan is afraid by all stupid people saying that nokia should cancel meego and adopt WP7 or Android ... Feb 10 12:42:17 They should ditch symbian, partner with sybian instead, and upgrade the vibrator motor. Feb 10 12:43:54 SpeedEvil: :) Feb 10 12:45:52 and that would make nokia awfully popular with female users :) Feb 10 12:46:44 so much so that if people asked you which brand is your handset and you said nokia, they think you're being a poof ;) Feb 10 13:10:17 nokia *should* cancel meego Feb 10 13:10:21 AND GIVE US A REAL UNIX SYSTEM Feb 10 13:10:29 DEBIAN-BASED Feb 10 13:12:27 * jonwil wonders whether Nokia is going to come after him for using the header data in http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/icd2/policy__api_8h-source.html Feb 10 13:14:34 kerio: actually rpm no-longer sucks Feb 10 13:14:38 * Sicelo agrees with kerio Feb 10 13:14:45 pupnik: lies Feb 10 13:15:17 and apt itself isn't appropriate for a portable Feb 10 13:15:29 it is :( Feb 10 13:15:31 how is yum any better? Feb 10 13:15:41 afaik i last checked linux is not unix? Feb 10 13:15:41 it's inappropriate to rescan a huge database Feb 10 13:16:09 from my own use... yum seems to be painfully slower than apt Feb 10 13:16:09 yum isn't any better, it's basically yellow dog linux's package management frontend :) Feb 10 13:16:21 they now recommend zypper however Feb 10 13:16:32 unless I'm missing on some special tricks to improve it Feb 10 13:17:14 O Feb 10 13:17:16 in either case, since dependencies are basically still uled out by the compliancy program, you don't really 'need' any of the advanced features of apt anyway :( Feb 10 13:17:56 I've had my gripes with yum but that's because yum is heavily dependent on python (because the source code is essentially python). However zypper is written all in C/C++ Feb 10 13:18:13 hmm can one use zypper as a drop in? Feb 10 13:18:30 not sure Feb 10 13:18:54 android packages install quickly Feb 10 13:18:58 have two fedora systems @home that I would love to swap out yum with zypper Feb 10 13:19:24 if meego package installation is slower than android, then it's a failure Feb 10 13:19:27 android has their own fancy package based management system, like iphones Feb 10 13:19:34 so use it Feb 10 13:19:34 someone(TM) should write a sqlite-backend for dpkg Feb 10 13:20:03 and apt, while at it Feb 10 13:20:20 sounds good flux Feb 10 13:23:11 hey guys Feb 10 13:26:04 good afternoon achipa Feb 10 13:27:13 achipa: success! :) http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=69454 Feb 10 13:28:37 i'm surprised the chinese didn't get it together to make a maemo phone Feb 10 13:29:09 should be reassuring to Nokia Feb 10 13:31:18 what do you mean? there's n900 clones around Feb 10 13:32:31 psycho_oreos, running maemo? Feb 10 13:32:35 psycho_oreos: but they're not running Maemo. Feb 10 13:33:20 they claim to run maemo Feb 10 13:33:29 psycho_oreos: interesting Feb 10 13:33:37 yeah probably symbian knockoffs Feb 10 13:33:47 yo :p Feb 10 13:33:53 Venemo: congrats Feb 10 13:34:13 psycho_oreos: well then we know where do the 'N900s' come about which the guys are whining on TMO Feb 10 13:35:25 Venemo, probably not lol :) like I said the chinese clones claim it runs on maemo but I bet it's just maemo UI minus terminal and other things like TV receiver added Feb 10 13:35:31 achipa: it wasn't very difficult, only some stuff about packaging Feb 10 13:37:26 achipa: and of course #if QT_VERSION >= blah-blah Feb 10 13:40:50 wow. In terms of UI experience it's quite close to 5800Xm http://vodpod.com/watch/5085281-nokia-n900-clone Feb 10 13:43:18 user12: last time I checked, andridiot wasn't even linux. So usually linux feels just sysV'ish enough to me Feb 10 13:43:56 and I don't give a fart about what package manager is used Feb 10 13:44:35 I mean we had HAM, how's that going to get worse? Feb 10 13:47:21 user12: btw to stay PC: it's GNU-linux, and GNU is Not Unix. So thanks for the clarification, Cpt. Obvious Feb 10 13:47:42 np. glad you liked. Feb 10 13:48:17 I have a special shelp where I collect those :-D Feb 10 13:48:27 shelf Feb 10 13:48:57 You collect Cpt Obvious badges? Feb 10 13:49:21 nah, "Linux is not Unix" statements Feb 10 13:50:18 yea, Linux is not real Unix Feb 10 13:50:29 Toy Unix, at most =) Feb 10 13:50:30 I have several glasses with screw-on lid there, that hold just one week each with up to 57 such statements Feb 10 13:51:40 lol Feb 10 13:51:53 consider Linux never was Unix and nobody made a claim to such... Feb 10 13:52:22 I use to add: "but for most practical purposes, it's indistinguishable from it" Feb 10 13:52:26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_UNIX_Specification#Linux Feb 10 13:52:27 there's no such ting like THE Unix Feb 10 13:59:57 Linux is as much a POSIX conforming *nix as many of the so called 'real Unix'' and there's been all kinds of SysV and BSD distris since decades, and it's really hard to agree on any definition about what's a real Unix and what's not Feb 10 14:01:09 when it comes to mere portability, Linux for sure is way better than some weired dinosaurs out there. HPUX might be a bad example Feb 10 14:08:19 i have liked hpux, it's quite good. Feb 10 14:08:52 i used it over ten years almost daily. Feb 10 14:12:03 that's not the point though. Is it a REAL unix? Why? And why linix is NOT then? Feb 10 14:13:48 claiming linux is no real unix is kinda like saying DrDOS is no real DOS Feb 10 14:14:00 hpux compared e.g. to a ubuntu? I am not sure but i believe that ubuntu is not posix compliant. Feb 10 14:14:15 says who? Feb 10 14:14:32 i don't know mr who Feb 10 14:14:45 Dr Who please :-D Feb 10 14:14:51 :) Feb 10 14:15:23 linux is a real unix Feb 10 14:15:46 gnu is not unix Feb 10 14:15:59 it's a unix like Feb 10 14:16:00 by whatever def of "ral unix" - yes it is Feb 10 14:16:02 it's just that it has no common codebase Feb 10 14:16:22 but it's as much unix as any other unixes Feb 10 14:16:44 exactly Feb 10 14:16:54 then it should register as posix compliant, which it has not done. Feb 10 14:17:03 no Feb 10 14:17:06 yes Feb 10 14:17:22 to register as posix compliant you would have to register every single version Feb 10 14:17:29 and there is too many of them Feb 10 14:17:35 user12: I bet you're free to do that, for the distri of your dreams Feb 10 14:18:14 NB POSIX is NOT unix either Feb 10 14:18:40 it doesen't matter how we are linux call. linux or unix... senseless discussion Feb 10 14:18:45 I.E: afaik even winNT is kinda posix compatible :-P Feb 10 14:18:46 yep Feb 10 14:18:52 user12: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Standard_Base Feb 10 14:19:09 i wonder why it is just enough that Linux is Linux (c) Feb 10 14:19:26 while I doubt HPUX is Feb 10 14:20:38 hi people Feb 10 14:20:39 good days Feb 10 14:20:48 some people know this new? http://thehandheldblog.com/2011/02/0...s-meego-maemo/ app android run in n900 Feb 10 14:20:54 anyway last time I checked I found the friggin lot of (1p) (3p) etc in linux manpages Feb 10 14:21:37 posix is actually "portable operating system interface (for unix)" if Linux doesn't want to conforn that it's ok by me. Feb 10 14:21:37 and it's rare linux doesn't comply 100% with one of those Feb 10 14:22:31 problem should not be that "there is so many of linuxes" that it is difficult to conform posix Feb 10 14:23:01 i think even some doses and nt conforms it + osx ofc Feb 10 14:23:20 but it really does not matter. Feb 10 14:23:23 Dado7: Yes, old news ;-) Feb 10 14:23:38 Though POSIX initially defined some unix system call conventions, it's nowadays way more and beyond, and applicable to OS that for sure are NOT unixoid. So I wonder what POSIX conformity got to do with definition of "real unix" Feb 10 14:27:23 Win7 fully compliant to POSIX via compatibility feature - so is Win7 a true unix now? :-P Feb 10 14:27:42 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POSIX#Compliant_via_compatibility_feature Feb 10 14:29:15 the simple fact: there is no such thing like THE TRUE UNIX. Feb 10 14:32:11 OS-A might be 70% SUS compliant (add list of conflicts here), plus 98% POSIX compliant (add another list), and 100% src portable to OS-B and OS-C, where OS-B maybe is a "real unix" by any arbitrary definition someone likes to apply Feb 10 14:32:43 well, s/100%/99.8%/ Feb 10 14:33:28 while OS-B and OS-D are a PITA to port src, though both claim to be "real UNIX" Feb 10 14:34:55 as far as I know , real Unix only come with a Unix Trademark (like Mac OS X)... Feb 10 14:35:08 but for me, they all are... Feb 10 14:35:34 user12: posix requires pretty much nothing to conform Feb 10 14:35:39 user12: it's couple basic system calls Feb 10 14:35:43 I have seen real Unix sold for about $15, suitable for drying laundry in tight spaces Feb 10 14:35:53 user12: that's why posix is useless Feb 10 14:36:02 windows conforms Feb 10 14:36:05 bsd conforms Feb 10 14:36:07 and some unices cost more than a house and is rock solid Feb 10 14:36:09 osx conforms Feb 10 14:36:20 but try to port app from one to another Feb 10 14:36:28 more complicated app using graphic stuff Feb 10 14:37:24 you mean like posix/x11 app? Feb 10 14:37:36 yes Feb 10 14:37:49 afaik qt was first ported on symbian using posix like lib Feb 10 14:38:19 there was company that linux fully certified that it conforms to sus and posix Feb 10 14:38:22 but nobody cared Feb 10 14:38:29 what if feb11 is a super Linux OS running Dalvin and Symbian VMs? Feb 10 14:38:34 *Dalvik Feb 10 14:38:37 yep, not even thy Feb 10 14:38:41 Ahhahaha: http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/10/amazon-app-released-for-the-newest-windows-phone-7-models/ Feb 10 14:38:47 chx: / Feb 10 14:39:13 hah, 1999 when I worked for Siemens, I tried to compile nedit for their crippled unix flavour. The c compiler blew chunks on help strings defines in text hardcoded, that were multiple lines and >64k :-P Feb 10 14:39:15 chx: ? Feb 10 14:39:33 just thinking aloud Feb 10 14:39:40 I bet it was a "real unix" Feb 10 14:39:50 don't pay attention he is being delusional Feb 10 14:39:55 Well, technically that's far more than C is required to support. Feb 10 14:39:59 do you know how many MS engineers are needed to change a burned light bulb ? Feb 10 14:40:00 POSIX or not. Feb 10 14:40:16 1999 C, you mean Feb 10 14:40:52 WAIT. Feb 10 14:40:55 http://www.linkedin.com/jobs?viewJob=&jobId=1256034&srchIndex=31&trk=njsrch_hits&goback=.fjs_nokia_*1_*1_Y_*1_*1_*1_4_R_true_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2 Feb 10 14:41:02 Microsoft and Nokia have formed a global alliance to design, develop and market mobile productivity, communications and collaboration solutions. Feb 10 14:41:04 shit! Feb 10 14:41:21 He will become more delusional right about now. Feb 10 14:41:45 chx: WAKE UP IT'S A DRAM!!! Feb 10 14:41:52 DocScrutinizer: lol Feb 10 14:41:53 DREAM* Feb 10 14:42:13 it was better with DRAM. Feb 10 14:42:21 javispedro: moin Feb 10 14:42:21 it's ephemeral enough :) Feb 10 14:42:23 well, moo javispedro Feb 10 14:43:17 morning Feb 10 14:44:15 chx: >>These solutions will be available for a broad range of Nokia smartphones starting with the company’s business optimized range, Nokia E series. Over 50 Nokia devices today have Exchange ActiveSync capabilities and several models have Communicator Mobile (for OCS) capabilities developed by Microsoft engineers on the Nokia platform....<< So what? Feb 10 14:44:56 RST38h: Microsoft still doesn't even support 1999 C. Feb 10 14:45:03 DocScrutinizer: is that the end of MS-Nokia? Nokia doing WM7 would be a nightmare. Feb 10 14:45:27 chx: Novel and M$ also have a partnership. That doesn't mean OpenSuse is a windows in disguise now Feb 10 14:46:04 No, the partnership means MS will now switch to using linux and Qt. Feb 10 14:46:08 in fact Nokia and M$ _already_ have a partnership. Feb 10 14:46:24 and I'm yet to see Bill Gates having written Hildon Microsoft Office. Feb 10 14:46:40 LOL Feb 10 14:47:05 would sir like bloat with that Feb 10 14:47:12 * DocScrutinizer hands chx a cup of very strong, hot, black coffee Feb 10 14:47:22 * psycho_oreos then points to OpenOffice running on n900 Feb 10 14:47:56 Right now, unless Nokia pulls a freakin miracle tomorrow i will go HP Vero and hope for a quick rooting and debian chroot. Feb 10 14:48:13 chx: pre's don't need rooting. Feb 10 14:48:14 *burp* Feb 10 14:48:17 s/pre's/pres Feb 10 14:48:35 javispedro: so far Feb 10 14:48:55 changing that would be like if Nokia were to change that Feb 10 14:49:00 that's suicide in fear of death Feb 10 14:49:04 massive riots Feb 10 14:49:10 cats and dogs living together Feb 10 14:50:01 (going pre when Nokia doesn't come up with alternatives for meego) Feb 10 14:50:08 [Away] demasiado autismo -autoaway, 15 mins- (Log:Pager) desde el 10 Feb 15:49:16 Feb 10 14:50:25 so what good did came from the previous nokia-microsoft partnertship? Feb 10 14:50:36 dado7: fix that!! Feb 10 14:50:37 something about crappy exchange support in e series? Feb 10 14:52:07 and, if the rumours are to be believed (which I doubt), what they're going to say on friday? "Hey guys, we're re-partnering with Bill Gates. So far our partnership produced nothing save for crap, but this time, it'll will be different!" Feb 10 14:52:53 muhahaha Feb 10 14:53:56 He regresado! (demasiado autismo -autoaway, 15 mins-) (Away: 3m48s) desde el 10 Feb 15:49:16 Feb 10 14:54:17 dado7: remove your autoaway script you are spamming the channel Feb 10 14:54:22 hey the exchange support in the e series work to some degree. Feb 10 14:54:23 okey Feb 10 14:54:24 sorry Feb 10 14:54:44 "M$ will use Nokia HW from now on, as they think they can't get it done in their own labs"? or "Nokia will switch to winMo now, just to compensate for the diversity we already have, with sybian, maemo, meego"? Feb 10 14:55:37 This relaly needs to be Symbian compatible, a number of businesses have custom Symbian apps Feb 10 14:55:54 and i mean , that's pretty much the reason the Symbian platform stayed alive if i get what happened Feb 10 14:56:22 dado7: we're not really interested if you're away or not Feb 10 14:56:48 how about renaming MS exchange to MS enslave Feb 10 14:56:54 dado7: nobody expects you're sitting at terminal 24/7 Feb 10 15:16:09 It s funny noone talk about using WebOS instead of MeeGo :) Feb 10 15:16:28 Khertan: that's, ironically, because you're not on #meego Feb 10 15:16:42 where I just inadvertently introduced the topic. Feb 10 15:17:03 hihi Feb 10 15:17:04 :) Feb 10 15:17:15 i'm happy DocScrutinizer recognized that Japan song Feb 10 15:17:38 it ll made the link with Ari Jaaksi Feb 10 15:18:18 japan, dude. One of my favourites Feb 10 15:18:33 cool Feb 10 15:19:56 actually it's been 2 japan recors plus 3 sisters of mercy records that were all I needed on mp3 (rsp flac) for 4 years Feb 10 15:22:18 Richard Barbieri made beautiful use of the Oberheim synthesizers on 'Ghosts' and 'The Experience of Swimming' Feb 10 15:23:06 Between midnight and 7 AM I recorded in a studio Sylvian was using during the day. :) Feb 10 15:23:35 hehe Feb 10 15:23:37 located in a giant, abandoned brewery Feb 10 15:23:41 pretty surreal Feb 10 15:23:56 that's just OK for a studio Feb 10 15:24:59 Einstuerzende Neubauten had a practicing room *inside* a highway bridge (the road was the room's ceiling) Feb 10 15:29:46 hah Feb 10 15:29:46 ~fud Feb 10 15:29:47 somebody said fud was Fear, uncertainty, doubt. Originally invented by IBM, but now used by many others. or YAFA. or Fscking Useless Data or otherwise known as false information or mindless facts with no backup facts or http://www.winntmag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=7420 Feb 10 15:30:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Barbieri some more of Jansen, Barbieri and Karn's stuff is listed here DocScrutinizer - worth a listen imo Feb 10 15:32:20 hi, i am trying to get usb0 working with dhcp, so i put "iface usb0 inet dhcp" in /etc/network/interfaces, unfortunately i geht the error: don't seem to have all the variables for usb0/inet. is there a workaround? Feb 10 15:36:01 did you add the hostname / IP address of your dhcp server Azog ? Feb 10 15:36:27 pupnik: no Feb 10 15:36:38 with eth0 it works without Feb 10 15:37:07 hmm i'm thinking of the wrong thing maybe Feb 10 15:37:41 pupnik: HAH! >During this time he worked alongside such other innovators as... Robert Fripp" Feb 10 15:37:59 inevitable Feb 10 15:38:03 :D Feb 10 15:38:28 KC, my roots (along with FZ) Feb 10 15:39:03 DocScrutinizer: about Einstuerzende Neubauten << now i understand where there music come from ... :) Feb 10 15:39:12 hehehe Feb 10 15:39:14 you can hear fripp and jon hassell on silvian's solo work - used to great effect Feb 10 15:39:18 pupnik: i thought the advantage of dhcp is, that one has to specify nothing *g* Feb 10 15:39:47 jon hassell, another good one Feb 10 15:40:06 yeah i'd forgotten Azog Feb 10 15:40:44 wow DocScrutinizer, respect Feb 10 15:41:17 "mastering obscure... alternatives" Feb 10 15:49:51 hello. i'm unable to connect to wpa/wpa2 wireless networks.. if i change my router to use WEP it works fine. Feb 10 15:50:39 Odd. Feb 10 15:50:42 Works for me. Feb 10 15:50:57 TKIP or what? Feb 10 15:51:37 it worked for me too, for a long time.. but since some days it doesnt anymore.. i tried tkip as well as aes Feb 10 16:08:18 well, I see "no route to host" when pinging my N900 since I switched to WPA - prolly unrelated Feb 10 16:10:00 also now see lags of up to 120s(!!) on pressing first keystroke on a idle ssh session into N900 Feb 10 16:10:42 DocScrutinizer: you're using wireless power-saving right? Feb 10 16:10:49 (and your router does it wrong?) Feb 10 16:10:54 routers suck. Feb 10 16:10:58 err for WPA now yup I do Feb 10 16:11:06 javispedro: mostly, yeah Feb 10 16:11:08 lemme check Feb 10 16:11:24 when power saving works right, it's totally cool though Feb 10 16:11:40 the way the n900 will sit idle on the net for *days*, on battery Feb 10 16:11:44 Can you even buy a gigabit router these days for less than $100 and that doesn't require an extra power supply Feb 10 16:11:49 ? Feb 10 16:12:13 yap, MAX PSM Feb 10 16:12:38 yeah sounds like your router sucks Feb 10 16:12:44 i had one with the same problem Feb 10 16:13:01 ~lart the designer who decided to hide this global setting in "advanced" of a connection Feb 10 16:13:02 * infobot slams the designer who decided to hide this global setting in "advanced" of a connection against a large cement Tux Feb 10 16:13:41 but it's a setting you'll never really want to use unless you have a buggy router Feb 10 16:13:52 they probably didn't realise how many routers are buggy. Feb 10 16:14:12 changed to "none" - let's watch that shite for another 5 days Feb 10 16:14:41 i mean, it wouldn't be a problem if the router didn't support PSM Feb 10 16:15:05 it's only a problem when it features an implementation, but that implementation is broken Feb 10 16:15:20 d-link DIR-615 - anybody? Feb 10 16:15:39 (in AP mode) Feb 10 16:16:06 best to disable it in the router's settings, if it doesn't actually work Feb 10 16:16:45 Firmware-Version : 4.10 , Thu 22 Jan 2009 Feb 10 16:17:03 GNU GPL included with manual Feb 10 16:18:27 luls... love the topic Feb 10 16:18:41 libqtm-12-declarative = most useless package ever Feb 10 16:19:26 it doesn't even install the declarative plugin :( Feb 10 16:20:38 nm, should update AP FW first, then start bitching Feb 10 16:24:58 I just saw a leaked document from Nokia Feb 10 16:25:10 They explained their alliance with MS Feb 10 16:25:27 M$ has ported Win7 to the N900. The April update will include it. Feb 10 16:25:27 * tripzero doesn't want to hear it Feb 10 16:25:42 hardaker, stop Feb 10 16:27:01 * tripzero upgrades router Feb 10 16:27:17 I just saw a leaked USAF document revealing that Nokia's next smartphone will have reverse-engineered alien tech from a UFO. Also, it specifically says that hardaker is wrong. Feb 10 16:27:34 BCMM_, +1 Feb 10 16:28:41 heh. Feb 10 16:31:59 I gave up trying to free more space in my N900's rootfs to upgrade to PR1.3 . I am considering now Backing up my data and factory reset the N00 and starting fresh. probably a good thing to do after all the time I spend with the different repositories. My question is: what to files/directories backup? Feb 10 16:33:35 smhar_: the default backup application gets 99% of the important stuff. Feb 10 16:33:38 smhar_: why factory reset? just flash 1.3, it'll overwrite everything Feb 10 16:34:18 the things I'd consider keeping would be the /etc directory if you've modified anything, and the keysym file if you've modified your keymap. Feb 10 16:34:22 smhar_: depends what you've modified. have you manually added anything to ~/ or system directories like /etc/? Feb 10 16:34:37 but yes, just flash.. you don't need to "reset" Feb 10 16:34:49 BCMM_, done only a OTA before, I will read about flashing too Feb 10 16:34:51 i really wouldn't keep the entire /etc/ directory; i'm sure they'll be some differences in 1.3 Feb 10 16:35:17 smhar_: I don't think I've ever done OTA because I *never* have enough room on / Feb 10 16:35:20 BCMM_, nothing special Feb 10 16:35:39 BCMM_: copying it somewhere until you know is what I meant, not necessarily a permenant archive. Feb 10 16:35:56 I always end up needing to do something with /etc/ssh afterward Feb 10 16:36:05 smhar_: btw, in theory, your MyDocs shouldn't be affected by reflashing Feb 10 16:36:33 smhar_: of course, you should backup anything important anyway, as with any OS update on any platform Feb 10 17:09:59 hardaker, gtfo with you stupid claims? Feb 10 17:10:20 gtfo? Feb 10 17:10:31 (I'm guessing at the f :-) Feb 10 17:10:37 ohh... out. Feb 10 17:10:44 that was the word I couldn't get. Feb 10 17:10:45 got it. Feb 10 17:19:12 I never touched /etc/ssh Feb 10 17:19:39 hi crashanddie Feb 10 17:19:46 yo Feb 10 17:22:42 duh, thought I missed something funny while offline, but nope... Feb 10 17:23:49 aah, crashanddie responded to the April PR pun Feb 10 17:24:01 well, see /topic Feb 10 17:24:27 well, that's why I told him to gtfo Feb 10 17:24:31 it's in the topic, thus bannable Feb 10 17:24:35 yeah, got it Feb 10 17:25:04 <_berto_> 7:30 am ?? Feb 10 17:25:14 I'm just happy when it's Friday evening Feb 10 17:25:15 <_berto_> http://twitter.com/#!/nokia/status/35748280100982785 Feb 10 17:26:01 eh? twitter URL without further notice? Looks like SPAM to me Feb 10 17:26:22 <_berto_> DocScrutinizer: it is, don't open it Feb 10 17:26:25 <_berto_> ;-) Feb 10 17:26:49 well, do you try to earn a ban, a kick, or just a +q? Feb 10 17:26:55 http://conversations.nokia.com will be the hub for tomorrow’s Nokia strategy announcement starting around 7:30am GMT Feb 10 17:27:25 ban the witch! Feb 10 17:27:31 he turned me into a newt! Feb 10 17:27:36 (btw I*never* open random URLs) Feb 10 17:28:25 esp not when they start as scary as http://twitter Feb 10 17:28:51 <_berto_> DocScrutinizer: even when they're from the nokia account and you're in the #maemo channel? Feb 10 17:29:19 even then. How should I know about any fsckng account on a page I refuse to open? Feb 10 17:29:43 <_berto_> fair enough, it might even be a virus :-) Feb 10 17:29:55 it usually IS a virus Feb 10 17:30:37 and I'm not going to open any random URL to see why the FSCK somebody posted it to IRC Feb 10 17:31:52 if you CBA to comment what it is, how can I bother to check what it actually is? Feb 10 17:32:01 DocScrutinizer, in _berto_'s defence, "Nokia" was in the URL? Feb 10 17:32:38 And twitter ... / nokia/ means that the account name is nokia Feb 10 17:32:54 yeah, I get mails with URLs like that every day a dozen: http://fslkhdhs.ru/DeutscheBank/login Feb 10 17:32:55 _berto_: the correct way to paste in a link is something like, "free c3al1s v14gr4 www.tinyurl.com/39&89" Feb 10 17:33:02 <_berto_> Proteous: indeed Feb 10 17:33:06 But then again, so is this: http://lemonparty.org/?article=Apple-Jobs-To-Buy-Nokia Feb 10 17:33:10 (NSFW) Feb 10 17:34:53 heh, next post the goatse article on it Feb 10 17:39:17 bash: bash: File or directory not found Feb 10 17:39:20 bash: bash: Success Feb 10 17:39:25 * javispedro sighs Feb 10 18:56:46 Newly relevant for this channel: "Windows Phone 7's copy and paste update now coming in March?" Feb 10 18:56:57 hah Feb 10 18:57:05 did get rather quiet didn't it Feb 10 18:57:15 Was pretty lively today Feb 10 18:57:40 also lots of analyst lemmings at #meego providing Nokia with free analyticaladvice Feb 10 18:59:40 hehe, what a perfect wording for this Feb 10 19:03:34 nokia's just in a fucked situation... they're screwed with meego, they're screwed with abandoning meego Feb 10 19:03:54 http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/02/how-one-security-firm-tracked-anonymousand-paid-a-heavy-price.ars Feb 10 19:03:57 baahaha Feb 10 19:03:58 Well, they have dug this ditch by themselves Feb 10 19:04:00 jacekowski: luke-jr, whom-it-may-concern: ISI specs actually mention how to talk GPS and even AGPS to cmt, it's called Modem LCS (Location Server) there. ((actually Mickey found this, so credit goes to him)) Feb 10 19:04:02 they just better make damn sure if they switch to MS software that it doesn't just die off too Feb 10 19:04:15 android is the safer choice :P Feb 10 19:04:27 but either way, they're fucking themselves over with qt Feb 10 19:04:58 they should've just bought palm last year... webos is at least viable in the short term Feb 10 19:05:11 and had a huge dev community Feb 10 19:05:24 did anyone ever figure out a low-cpu speaker protection thingy? Feb 10 19:05:46 mickey claims he found quite some non-specs conforming implementation details in N900 RAPUYAMA BB5 cmt, so while the LCS cmds might be ok, the data structures might differ and need some work Feb 10 19:06:08 DocScrutinizer: pretty sure there were no such specs when I reverse engineered it Feb 10 19:06:45 luke-jr: I guess mickey is using latest release, which iirc is of january Feb 10 19:07:06 pupnik: The Barr guy did notgetthe point? =) Feb 10 19:07:08 How the hell do I get an FLV out of a Flip video share. . . . Feb 10 19:07:14 ieatlint: Sounds like you're saying that my N900 might be the last of a breed, and don't expect any new wonders from Nokia any time soon? Feb 10 19:07:33 kwtm: wtf do i know, i'm just a random dude on irc.. Feb 10 19:07:57 ieatlint: Thank you for providing your strategic advice to Nokia! Feb 10 19:08:02 reuters says the n9 has been cancelled... but they themselves call it rumour, citing two unnamed nokia sources Feb 10 19:08:07 RST38h: np Feb 10 19:08:20 ieatlint: Some random dudes on irc are worth paying attention to. :) Feb 10 19:08:22 the two nokia employees standing 10 feet from me are talking about selling stock Feb 10 19:08:44 actually, i lied, they're sitting Feb 10 19:09:04 ieatlint: Good F Grief, I better treat the keyboard and the USB port on my N900 *very* nicely if I want it to last the next 10 years before someone else comes out with a Linux phone... Feb 10 19:09:07 tell us when they lie down and take the pills Feb 10 19:09:11 Woo! Feb 10 19:09:23 Let us all buy the stock, and MAKE them do harmattan properly! Feb 10 19:09:32 kwtm: i wore through my keyboard in 5 months :) Feb 10 19:09:32 kwtm: don't worry, the cpu and battery will die well before the keyboard Feb 10 19:09:45 In the meanwhile, http://godheadv.blogspot.com/2010/04/abandoned-on-everest.html Feb 10 19:09:47 oh, and the usb connector :P Feb 10 19:10:06 They said a candidate prototype that was going to be the N9 got scrapped Feb 10 19:10:13 Not exactly the same thing. Feb 10 19:10:22 40 billion / 445 people = 90 million or so. Feb 10 19:10:30 I'm in - anyone else? Feb 10 19:10:33 alterego: heh, if it just happened, then it is Feb 10 19:10:42 the n9 will be something else, and delayed by another 6+ months Feb 10 19:10:51 luke-jr: g2, i_modem_lcs_fp.pdf Feb 10 19:10:56 and if nokia can't get a meego phone out until the end of the year.... heh Feb 10 19:11:37 ieatlint: I don't get Nokia ... is this an internal power struggle? "Let's make Maemo!" "No, let Feb 10 19:11:52 ieatlint: I don't get Nokia ... is this an internal power struggle? "Let's make Maemo!" "No, let's make Meego!" "No, the N9 will be a Symbian based phone!" Geez.... Feb 10 19:12:12 kwtm: *if* the rumours prove true, it's more a shakeup it seems... hire an outsider CEO who changes a bunch of shit Feb 10 19:12:23 lest they go the way of yahoo.. Feb 10 19:12:27 cool RST38h Feb 10 19:12:40 luke-jr: i have found significant differences between the documented subsystems and the actual implementation in N900 so although the basic interaction is documented, the data structure might need work Feb 10 19:12:42 pupnik: I knew you would like that morbid crap Feb 10 19:13:04 i didn't know it was so deadly Feb 10 19:13:36 i know that tomorrow's announcement will not include an abandonment of qt at least Feb 10 19:14:00 I bet it's an announcement that they are going to be releasing some W7 models. Feb 10 19:14:21 is there any reason to believe W7 other than the ceo is from MS? Feb 10 19:14:36 I will in fact go so far as to put down as a bet this 38g lump of corned beef. Feb 10 19:14:56 so, has everyone given up hope without waiting for th announcement? Feb 10 19:15:18 i'll bet this half cup of coffee that part the announcement will be related to the n8 Feb 10 19:15:24 It's unlikely to be Ios, android IMO. Feb 10 19:15:39 definitely not iphone... apple would never do that Feb 10 19:16:00 http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5131/cameras/72157622207392889_graph_model_users_afa437ff78.png Feb 10 19:16:04 * SpeedEvil sighs. Feb 10 19:16:56 windows 7 is .net based, unproven, requires licencing, has tiny app base .... android is java based (not any better, maybe worse), free licencing, large app base, and is a word that in itself is a selling point... Feb 10 19:17:27 so yeah, based on nokia's past decisions, it'll be the less viable option Feb 10 19:17:52 I think they're going to try to use W7 as a fill-in till meego is ready. Feb 10 19:17:54 (that is, welcome back Qtopia!) Feb 10 19:18:06 i've heared some guys ported dalvik to meego, so why abandon it at all to run andrioid software if you can use best of both worlds? Feb 10 19:18:16 I'm of course utterly pulling this out of my arse. Feb 10 19:18:23 nokia could just buy out that company Feb 10 19:18:25 SpeedEvil: (40 billion) wait until tomorrow, will get muuuuch cheaper :-P Feb 10 19:18:34 sometimes, you just have to move on Feb 10 19:18:40 bought my dad an iPhone 4 Feb 10 19:18:43 SpeedEvil: you are now qualified to be a financial analyst Feb 10 19:19:25 wmarone: Well - I just spent half an hour looking through regulations, in order to find out that the government had not been mis-rounding a payment to me down by 10p. Feb 10 19:19:43 Which is one of the less productive things I've done today. Feb 10 19:20:04 could be worse... i've been sitting in a qscript presentation for the last hour Feb 10 19:20:12 Indeed. Feb 10 19:20:58 * ieatlint is in a "cover 90% of qt" session this week Feb 10 19:21:05 8h/day of slides :( Feb 10 19:21:33 *cough* Feb 10 19:22:09 ieatlint: condolences - qt is going to die when Nokia is switching to redmonf universe :-P Feb 10 19:22:29 they will port qt to .net! Feb 10 19:22:31 err, qscript, wait What? Feb 10 19:22:44 WTF qscript? Feb 10 19:22:51 soon i'll be like one of those guys who says "i know fortran" or "i know cobol" Feb 10 19:23:02 when's MWC again? Feb 10 19:23:03 DocScrutinizer: hence the reason i'm not paying attention right now Feb 10 19:23:07 MohammadAG: monday Feb 10 19:23:25 ieatlint: don't call names on me, I LOVE COBOL Feb 10 19:23:37 DocScrutinizer: and it's so useful... Feb 10 19:23:51 it's like me knowing a bit of EFL... "that's cool .. i guess" Feb 10 19:24:07 sure, check the SORT command with all its parameters. Unique in whole IT Feb 10 19:24:34 MohammadAG, 13/14th Feb 10 19:24:39 * RST38h likes the positive mood at this channel Feb 10 19:25:14 I bet there's no other coding lang that can sortmerge 2 sets of 5 trillion records each, in less lines of sourcecode and better optimized Feb 10 19:25:28 ieatlint: What do you do? Are you at Nokia? Wait, no you're at a conference --that's why there are two Nokia bodies near you. Do you make software for a living, then? Feb 10 19:25:32 My September proto is now getting cellular interference on its own speakers. . . . Feb 10 19:25:37 If we are lucky, dear punks, Nokia wil produce a handful of WP7 handsets for the US market, they will tank, things will get back to Symbian, Meego in the sky, and loathing at the ground. Feb 10 19:26:04 kwtm: i bitch and whine. i'm not at nokia, nor a conference... there happen to be two nokia employees at this session as well. i do software, yes Feb 10 19:26:08 and if we aren't ? Feb 10 19:26:12 If we are unlucky, the whole Nokia will tank. Feb 10 19:26:19 If we're lucky, we'll all buy Android phones and like it. Feb 10 19:26:23 :( Feb 10 19:26:26 i don't like android! Feb 10 19:26:29 but i don't like android Feb 10 19:26:30 derf: I am considering it Feb 10 19:26:33 Yes, that's because you're unlucky. Feb 10 19:26:34 GAN900: HEH! BUZZ issue - muhahaha, that'S (C) FR Feb 10 19:26:59 derf: But the thing is surprisingly immature at the closer sight Feb 10 19:27:07 RST38h: I am not surprised. Feb 10 19:27:08 Android: how to sucker people into stopping work on actual open source projects Feb 10 19:27:10 derf: Did not expect it not to have a decent Xvid player. Feb 10 19:28:03 derf:Still, it is probably Streak2 or something similar for me, eventually Feb 10 19:28:59 wmarone: that's why Android is so much more evil than iOS can ever be. Feb 10 19:29:20 GeneralAntilles: +1 Feb 10 19:29:42 GeneralAntilles: Sadly, that's not entirely true. Feb 10 19:30:09 it is disturbing to see you rate software in terms of good and evil... Feb 10 19:30:10 There's a whole generation of programmers who _would_ have gone into open source who now think they can "monetize" their work in an App Store. Feb 10 19:30:30 I mean, it is just a bunch of code... Feb 10 19:31:04 derf;: and no, can't monetize much via the app store, it is about as solid as "american dream" Feb 10 19:31:10 derf: yes, but Android is undermining half the existing open source community. Feb 10 19:31:11 RST38h: nah, we're talking ecosystems here, or call it paradigm if you like that better Feb 10 19:31:34 RST38h: I know that, and you know that, but they don't. Feb 10 19:31:52 poor lemmings, they will learn Feb 10 19:32:02 But it's training them to think giving away source code is "stupid". Feb 10 19:32:23 you want their source? Feb 10 19:32:42 in java, with google extensions? Feb 10 19:32:48 I don't want to be doing this forever. Feb 10 19:32:56 derf: Arduino will save us! Feb 10 19:32:59 There's systems I would never work on, but I'm happy that somebody does. Feb 10 19:33:16 Like, anything involving Qt. Feb 10 19:33:31 what is wrong with qt? Feb 10 19:33:38 It's written in C++. Feb 10 19:34:19 tbh, all I've seen so far from andridiot was utterly stupid, they have NFC about what'S a proper OS and which implications they run into when messing around with kernel and system libs just for fun. And then they think that's "contributing to FOSS" when they feed back that crap to linux and shove it down the throat of working distros Feb 10 19:34:22 hm..ok, what is wrong with C++ then? Feb 10 19:34:35 RST38h: We've had this conversation before, and it's besides the point. Feb 10 19:34:39 (as long as you avoid stl, exceptions and most teplates) Feb 10 19:34:43 derf: Yea Feb 10 19:34:59 derf: But I still fail to see the pointin aversion to C++ Feb 10 19:35:09 I'm not asking you to. Feb 10 19:35:19 I'm asking you to accept that _I_ don't like it. Feb 10 19:35:28 derf: Except maybe for the fact that you get into a bit of dll hell with it :) Feb 10 19:35:39 But that doesn't mean I'm not happy there are open-source C++ projects. Feb 10 19:35:57 hm, ok Feb 10 19:37:10 derf: Sorry to drag this out --I myself haven't had this conversation with you before, so I'll ask as an outsider who doesn't know C++: is there something about C++ that would make you suggest that I not learn it, or is it just a personal preference? Feb 10 19:38:51 kwtm: the C++ gurus of this world think they are a group of maybe 20 that *really* master C++ Feb 10 19:39:29 some of them think C++ is overly sophisticated Feb 10 19:40:20 * RST38h is not a C++ guru and so has no problems suggesting to learn C++, just do it cautiously Feb 10 19:40:26 recent research seems to indicate C++ doesn't help on productivity or code quality of large projects Feb 10 19:40:28 DocScrutinizer: Okay ... but is it worth learning even if I don't master it? Of course, this depends on my own personal situation, but in general, for someone who works with FOSS and would like to be able to write small programs quickly, maybe use Qt, is it worth learning? Feb 10 19:40:28 kwtm: Nothing personal, but I have better things to do today than rant against C++. Google for logs of this channel if you really care. Feb 10 19:40:30 As "C++ to C is what lung cancer is to lungs" Feb 10 19:40:50 RST38h: Hahaha. Feb 10 19:40:58 Ah, I see. So, in summary, it is an unnecessary complication to using C to do the same thing. Feb 10 19:41:15 kwtm: definitely yes Feb 10 19:41:33 you can't use Qt without basic C++ knowledge Feb 10 19:41:47 The reason I ask is because I plan to use PyQt to put up some simple GUI scripts, and was wondering if it would be a good investment to learn C++ in order to use Qt to the fullest. Feb 10 19:42:10 DocScrutinizer: I suspect that my meaning of the phrase "use Qt" is much more liberal than yours. :) Feb 10 19:42:45 I guess gone are the days when C++ was going to save the world ... Feb 10 19:43:29 kwtm: When used carefully, C++ will help you better organize your code Feb 10 19:43:43 DocScrutinizer: do you have link to that spec Feb 10 19:43:58 kwtm: When used to the full "power", it will blow your brains out Feb 10 19:44:09 kwtm: at very least you need a good understanding of OO concepts, no matter if that's C++ or any other OO language. Qt however is genuine C++ Feb 10 19:44:40 jacekowski: isi shit? Feb 10 19:45:12 DocScrutinizer: Yeah, I think I don't fully get OO yet. I use OO features of Python but I think I'll get laughed out of town if I show my code to anyone. Feb 10 19:45:47 yes Feb 10 19:45:53 mompls Feb 10 19:46:05 My own impression of C++ is "it was supposed to be a superset of C but when it compiles my C code it chokes on 'main(int argc, char *argv)' because there's no 'void' in front of 'main()' " and then it went downhill from there. Feb 10 19:46:29 kwtm: actually, your main()is supposed to return int Feb 10 19:46:42 when you skip return type, "int" is assumed Feb 10 19:47:05 but your "char *argv" is incorrect anyway, either in C or in C++ Feb 10 19:47:12 RST38h: Yeah, but I didn't know that when I wrote my C programs, and I just didn't want to bother going back to change everything I had written for the two years previous ... (This was before I started with Linux) Feb 10 19:47:22 so, maybe you should not blame C++ for your mistakes Feb 10 19:47:57 RST38h: Well, it was an example of how C++ is much stricter for return values ... I haven't done C programming for decades now, so not surprised that I got it wrong... Feb 10 19:48:14 use char **argv, it confuses people who claim to know c/c++ but don't Feb 10 19:48:35 const char *argv[] is the best option Feb 10 19:48:37 clearest Feb 10 19:49:01 const is a good idea... the notation is otherwise entirely visual... Feb 10 19:49:19 although i think argv is actually writable, just a bad idea to alter Feb 10 19:52:52 It is, glib and Qt do it. Feb 10 19:53:19 and gtk though that's kind of related to glib. Feb 10 19:55:43 in which case you'll get an error/warning specifying const argv and then passing it to gtk/qt Feb 10 19:56:01 jacekowski: http://www.wirelessmodemapi.com/ Feb 10 19:57:20 1-Feb-2011 Wireless Modem API Release G2.V2-11W05 available. No changes to G1 API. Feb 10 19:57:51 luke-jr: ^^^ Feb 10 20:04:51 hmmm, if i can rent a big white bus, i could go drive to one of the google shuttle stops near hear and pick up ~20 employees and drive them somewhere random long before they realize i'm not actually the google shuttle.. Feb 10 20:33:01 Hey guys, is Maemo/MeeGo going to participate on GSoC this year? Feb 10 20:35:47 anyone had compiled fbset ? Feb 10 20:38:58 blue_led: there's some interesting low-level capabilities of omap3 that can be exposed to fbset Feb 10 20:39:17 like a second framebuffer as an overlay running at a different resolution Feb 10 20:40:58 @pupnik : i want to play with fb0 but i don't have fbset . do you have it ? Feb 10 20:41:10 On #feb11 wear a #MeeGo shirt if you have one. We are #MeeGo and we're proud of our project no matter what happens. Feb 10 20:41:13 lol Feb 10 20:42:46 someone is wiiling to sent me meego t-shirt or maemo t-shirt i Feb 10 20:42:48 ll buy Feb 10 20:44:22 blue_led: i'm a little too uninformed about all this Feb 10 20:44:35 * RST38h will wear the Cthulhu tshirt Feb 10 20:48:16 barr is such a joker, i hate him Feb 10 20:48:39 i'm going to a meego event at nokia's campus tonight... maybe i can find a shirt Feb 10 20:49:19 see that's the downside to living up in folsom, all the interesting mobile stuff is down in the bay area Feb 10 20:50:05 folsom? hmmm... i think i met you at a meego event in sf last september Feb 10 20:50:09 yeah I was there Feb 10 20:50:34 yeah, i was the guy with the n900 and the magnetic stripe card thing.. Feb 10 20:50:44 right, I have your business card Feb 10 20:50:59 haha, ok Feb 10 20:51:00 hi Feb 10 20:51:52 wmarone folsom? are you johnny cash? Feb 10 20:52:01 no, no Feb 10 20:52:07 but the prison is here in town Feb 10 20:52:15 at least mubarak hasn't yet announced egypt will switch to windows phone 7 Feb 10 20:52:30 haha Feb 10 20:52:44 * ZogG xmms2> Joaquin Phoenix - Folsom Prison Blues ["Walk The Line OST" 2005] Feb 10 20:53:14 maybeWTF you are too late he did, but actually it's Windows mobile 6.5 Feb 10 20:53:37 BCMM, setting up funtoo on laptop Feb 10 20:53:44 portage is nicer there Feb 10 20:53:59 full git thing not like in gentoo or i need to turn it on somewhere? Feb 10 20:54:53 pupnik: Barr is a funny idiot Feb 10 20:55:10 pupnik: And it looks like Anonymous will have him for dinner Feb 10 20:55:27 his use of language is incredibly annoying Feb 10 20:57:04 DocScrutinizer: (re http://www.wirelessmodemapi.com/ ) will registering there make the dl links appear? Feb 10 20:57:09 or it's just a trap? Feb 10 20:57:48 nah it works, though it's a PITA for some reason, like fubar js or sth Feb 10 20:57:49 where? Feb 10 20:57:53 lemme see Feb 10 20:57:57 want to eat!!! Feb 10 20:58:48 also I can't find my credentials of last time, So asked for "resend" and waiting since 30min now Feb 10 21:00:34 What's the speaker that calls some out of when not in hands-free mode called? Can I make normal sound come out through it? Feb 10 21:00:53 earpiece Feb 10 21:00:54 ? Feb 10 21:03:03 how do you get those fancy hostnames here in Freenode? Feb 10 21:03:08 Signoff: mc_teo (~hah@unaffiliated/mcteo/x-951735) Feb 10 21:03:24 since I come from Efnet/Undernet, I know nothing about this network Feb 10 21:03:33 Sc0rpius: hostmasks, like mine? Feb 10 21:03:40 yeah like those Feb 10 21:03:43 like the one you have Feb 10 21:04:08 I have fucked up my n900! I was going to change the big user filesystem from vfat to ext2 and that went okay. Then I changed a bit in /etc/fstab /usr/sbin/mmc-mount and /usr/sbin/osso-mmc-mount.sh. Regrettably, I didn't check these files for syntax error before I rebooted the device. Now it just reboots over and over again when I try to start it... what can I do? Is it possible to start it somehow in a hackable way? Feb 10 21:05:34 your easiest option is a reflash Feb 10 21:06:02 it would be fun to avoid that. Feb 10 21:07:12 I suppose you DON'T have BackupMenu Feb 10 21:07:15 Sc0rpius: they're called cloaks; you can ask for an unaffiliated one in #freenode Feb 10 21:07:22 ok thx BCMM Feb 10 21:08:38 Sc0rpius: as for project ones like MohammadAG wears, i guess you have to ask the project in question Feb 10 21:08:49 yeah I might Feb 10 21:09:03 and I suppose somebody like X-Fade assigns them Feb 10 21:09:23 yes Feb 10 21:09:40 actually, he asks Freenode staff to assign them, he can't assign cloaks Feb 10 21:09:45 DocScrutinizer: very interesting, nice find! Feb 10 21:09:48 oh I thought he was an IRC op here Feb 10 21:09:55 so who gets Maemo cloaks? Feb 10 21:10:03 he's just the channel owners Feb 10 21:10:09 owner* Feb 10 21:10:11 skrullis: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd Feb 10 21:10:28 Sc0rpius: cloaks aren't a channel thing, they're network-wide Feb 10 21:10:40 there's a wiki about it Feb 10 21:10:48 Task:IRC_cloaks I think Feb 10 21:11:02 or Task:IRC_Cloaks, idk Feb 10 21:11:53 exactly, and like I said, I though X-Fade was an IRC op Feb 10 21:11:59 a Freenode IRC op Feb 10 21:13:21 nah Feb 10 21:13:55 he owns the channel and has it registered on Freenode so we can get cloaks Feb 10 21:14:10 DocScrutinizer: thanks man, exactly what I need Feb 10 21:14:50 hmm, /me now remembers why -testing is so bad Feb 10 21:16:20 getting a unaffiliated cloak is much more painless. Feb 10 21:17:17 I suppose... Feb 10 21:17:55 as usually you need freenode-staff, group-owner, and the user receiving cloak, all being online and available at same time Feb 10 21:18:25 http://drippler.com/nokia_n900/nokia-kills-first-meego-phone-windowsandroid-phone-now-certain/?utm_source=wordtwit&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=wordtwit Feb 10 21:18:40 I should have pasted the source Feb 10 21:18:44 http://www.maemonokian900.com/nokia-n900-news/nokia-kills-first-meego-phone-windowsandroid-phone-now-certain/ Feb 10 21:18:51 so no MeeGo? Feb 10 21:19:00 I'll stick with Maemo until my grandchildren can use it Feb 10 21:19:06 what's a good PIM suite, ideally with fancy home applets, for OS2008? Feb 10 21:19:44 what are these so called sources? Feb 10 21:20:17 yeah well i received the link via twitter and now I realize those "sources" suck Feb 10 21:20:28 but anyway everybody knew this was gonna happen Feb 10 21:20:58 it's been all around the (micro)blogosphere for the past few days Feb 10 21:21:39 it seems they are gonna prefer Windows Mobile before Android Feb 10 21:21:41 I would too. Feb 10 21:21:52 my personal (biased?) opinion is that it'd be even more stupid than FOX cancelling Firefly Feb 10 21:22:02 or Activision cancelling Guitar Hero :( Feb 10 21:22:02 I don't want an android phone Feb 10 21:22:04 Heh Feb 10 21:22:16 not quite so much as I don't want a WP7 phone Feb 10 21:22:20 or nbc cancelling star trek? Feb 10 21:22:21 The TV show kind of highlights usually doesn't occur in here... Feb 10 21:22:29 nick highlights, that is Feb 10 21:22:46 I don't want an Android phone either, Android is very pretty, the fonts, animations, it's beautiful, but it sucks that you run out of battery in like 4 hours Feb 10 21:22:47 FireFly: You can't take the Source from me Feb 10 21:22:51 i think fox cancelled it because it was too 'rebel' oriented Feb 10 21:22:57 and the same issue with everybody: no real multitasking Feb 10 21:23:05 meh. Feb 10 21:23:25 the main reason I don't want an Android phone is that I want at least one major mode of communication that isn't tied to Google in the slightest Feb 10 21:23:27 Sc0rpius: i find it funny you're in #maemo and crticising the battery life of other devices Feb 10 21:23:43 hey, I get at least 2 days with my N900 Feb 10 21:23:46 well, n900 isn't as bad as some other devices Feb 10 21:23:47 with 3G/Wifi use Feb 10 21:23:48 I already have email and IM through them. I'd rather not have my phone with them Feb 10 21:23:56 i get 8-12h, depending on my use Feb 10 21:23:59 try a Motorola Droid to see how much you can get Feb 10 21:24:03 (and, no, my ham radio doesn't count) Feb 10 21:24:21 i know the nexus s gets similar life, maybe better Feb 10 21:24:27 * lardman|home wonders why "Programming Massively Parallel Processors" doesn't bother to mention texture memory Feb 10 21:24:30 my old g1 got similar too Feb 10 21:24:39 I still just charge every night, need it or not Feb 10 21:24:47 that's wise Feb 10 21:24:50 since I probably would need it the next day if I didn't Feb 10 21:24:53 you'll never know what could happen tomorrow Feb 10 21:24:54 lardman|home: is it GPU targeted, or massive, multi-CPU? Feb 10 21:24:56 yarr Feb 10 21:25:09 and LiIon batteries don't mind partial discharg Feb 10 21:25:11 e Feb 10 21:25:12 wmarone: GPU targetted, and mainly CUDA at that Feb 10 21:25:15 weird Feb 10 21:25:20 yeah Feb 10 21:25:41 perhaps it was based on an earlier version before texture memory was accessible? Feb 10 21:26:04 was there a version of CUDA that didn't give access to the texture memory? Feb 10 21:26:33 lack of access would seem wasteful Feb 10 21:26:38 no idea Feb 10 21:26:53 Texture memory has always been accessible. Feb 10 21:27:08 hmm, odd that that book doesn't mention it then Feb 10 21:27:15 It's no different from regular memory. The only thing that changes is how you access it. Feb 10 21:27:29 ok, so it;s just constant memory? Feb 10 21:27:37 No, not at all. Feb 10 21:28:05 "constant memory"? Feb 10 21:28:13 heh, if nokia really is axing meego, we can expect to see a LOT of layoffs on the horizon Feb 10 21:28:16 not just nokia too.. Feb 10 21:28:17 in the CUDA lino Feb 10 21:28:23 linguo Feb 10 21:28:30 lardman|home: I know what constant memory is, and it's not that. Feb 10 21:28:34 ok Feb 10 21:29:29 You can only read it through the shader units, and you can't write to it directly. But you can copy the contents of a linear array into it. Feb 10 21:29:53 (the reason being that it's not laid out linearly in memory, and exactly _how_ it's laid out was supposed to be this big proprietary secret they didn't want to expose) Feb 10 21:29:59 * lardman|home is more abstracted than that Feb 10 21:30:14 Well, these details show up in the CUDA API. Feb 10 21:30:15 didn't know you could write it to from the device though Feb 10 21:31:10 but I'm only half way through the CUDA by example book, which does mention texture memory Feb 10 21:31:10 It's actually really damn annoying. Algorithms which are fast in OpenGL can't be implemented in CUDA in the same way, because you can't write to textures directly. Feb 10 21:31:53 I mean, I can understand not supporting scattered writes for textures, but they don't support direct writes at all. Feb 10 21:32:12 Just copying of whole arrays. Feb 10 21:33:51 yet one can do that in OpenGL? Feb 10 21:34:46 crashanddie, just finished black ops, lmfao @ final scene after credits Feb 10 21:35:07 * lardman|home kind of lost the will in black ops after a couple of levels Feb 10 21:35:08 hey MohammadAG :) Feb 10 21:35:24 hey Venemo Feb 10 21:35:37 what should i do to make OS2008's player support Ogg Vorbis? i've installed 'ogg-support', but my files still aren't showing up in the library... Feb 10 21:35:52 lardman|home, story's ending's good Feb 10 21:36:57 MohammadAG: It chopped and changed too much for my liking, but I'm sure I'll get bored enough one day to finish it Feb 10 21:37:35 lardman|home, thought as much at first, but I like to finish all games I get Feb 10 21:37:54 lardman|home: In a limited fashion. E.g., you can run a fragment shader "for all texels", and the return value from each instance gets written to that texel. Feb 10 21:38:11 derf: interesting Feb 10 21:38:25 You can also do multi-texture outputs, where you return several values, and each one gets written to a different texture. Feb 10 21:38:41 MohammadAG: yeah but the ~£25 i pay for a game doens't commit me to do something that I don't find fun Feb 10 21:39:06 derf: I'm doing heat simulation, so no need for that :) Feb 10 21:39:24 What you can't do is have a single program write more than one value to the _same_ texture, or figure out where you're going to write to after you run the program. Feb 10 21:40:06 Right, for heat simulation you shouldn't have to get to fancy. Feb 10 21:40:10 *too Feb 10 21:40:20 ah, well is that a limitation caused by thread consistency, or whatever it would be called? Feb 10 21:40:38 to avoid writing more than one value to the same location? Feb 10 21:40:45 Well, worse than that. Feb 10 21:40:58 Texture memory is organized into 2D blocks, and loaded into and out of cache in those blocks. Feb 10 21:41:14 On NVIDIA cards these are 8x8 (this is one of their big proprietary secrets). Feb 10 21:41:42 So if you want to write to a pixel, you have to load the whole 8x8 block in, update the pixel, and then flush it out (this is what the hardware does... this doesn't show up in the API anywhere). Feb 10 21:42:02 That is, that's what you _would_ do if scattered writes were supported. Feb 10 21:42:38 but you can't really support scattered writes from a kernel can you anyway? Feb 10 21:42:46 What it actually does is runs the 64 instances of your program for the 8x8 block, collects all the return values in cache, and replaces the whole block in main memory at once. Feb 10 21:43:07 lardman|home: For ordinary global memory, yes you can. Feb 10 21:43:12 You can write wherever you want. Feb 10 21:43:18 mutexes? Feb 10 21:43:33 Well, you have to make sure they don't conflict. Feb 10 21:43:51 I.e., you could make a program that only updated the even pixels. Feb 10 21:44:24 There's a limited set of atomic primitives. Feb 10 21:44:36 You can synchronize threads within a single warp, but that's about. Feb 10 21:44:36 DocScrutinizer: I followed the initrd rescue guide you sent a link about. the rescue mode commands seem to work but I don't see anything on the display. Have you had this problem? Feb 10 21:44:39 *about it. Feb 10 21:44:43 so they've simly assumed you won;t want to do that then Feb 10 21:44:58 Well, you won't. Feb 10 21:44:58 warp or is it a block? Feb 10 21:45:03 the latter I think Feb 10 21:45:05 skrullis: I never used that Feb 10 21:45:08 warp is memory access stuff iirc Feb 10 21:45:15 This _is_ memory access stuff. Feb 10 21:45:22 DocScrutinizer: ok.. Feb 10 21:45:29 But I don't actually know on current cards. Feb 10 21:45:35 Look it up. Don't trust me. Feb 10 21:46:02 Anyway, the truth is, you _won't_ want to do that. Feb 10 21:46:14 Because accessing individual memory locations is terribly slow. Feb 10 21:46:29 Like 400-600 cycles for a read from global memory. Feb 10 21:47:02 no, I meant a warp is 16 threads, a block is 32? and it's per-block synchronisation isn't it? Feb 10 21:47:07 If things are aligned properly, and you make all the threads in a warp access _consecutive_ memory locations, they can all do the access at once. Feb 10 21:47:51 yes, that book stresses that, which is good Feb 10 21:48:18 So: writing to 8 even pixels == 8 memory accesses. Feb 10 21:48:23 goes into quite a bit of detail of trading off threads with registers vs memory vs #SMs, etc., etc Feb 10 21:48:37 Reading in 16 pixles, updating the even ones, and writing 16 back out: 2 memory accesses. Feb 10 21:49:06 (reads and writes aren't equal, but let's pretend for the moment) Feb 10 21:49:39 there's a 2nd pass tpop though assuming you use an if{} in there Feb 10 21:49:46 s/tpop/too Feb 10 21:50:16 Not sure what you mean by that. Feb 10 21:51:07 apparently the kernel must be run N times per warp depending on the number of paths in the code Feb 10 21:51:33 Not really. Feb 10 21:51:46 How would it know, in advance? Feb 10 21:52:02 What actually happens is it runs all the paths on all the threads. Feb 10 21:52:23 But the ones not actually "on" that path don't write back the results of whatever the operation was. Feb 10 21:53:09 I.e., if you have an if(){...} else{...}, everyone will run the if, then everyone will run the else. Feb 10 21:53:46 But the ones that are supposed to go in the else branch will convert everything to nops while the if is being run. Feb 10 21:54:07 And vice-versa while the else is being run. Feb 10 21:54:21 And if everyone takes the _same_ branch, then it doesn't have to run the other one at all. Feb 10 21:54:24 sure, but you still get a 2 run penalty Feb 10 21:54:43 Well, if you just have an if(){...}, then it still only gets run once. Feb 10 21:54:49 yeah, so that depends how you structure your code so that singe warps can take the same path Feb 10 21:55:10 But, e.g., if it's an if(even pixel), then half the threads do something, and the other half sit idle. Feb 10 21:55:21 yes, apologies, I should have added an else (if) Feb 10 21:55:48 yeah ok Feb 10 21:56:40 looks quite interesting working out the trade offs to get stuff working as quickly as possible Feb 10 21:57:04 otoh, not sure how easy it is to write code that will scale to newer processors, which is part of the goal of CUDA Feb 10 21:57:20 * VanDamas http://hotour.ucoz.com Visit my site to download my all Hot videos! Feb 10 21:57:42 scale -> scale to generate code that is optimum for the # of register memories, constant memory, etc., etc Feb 10 21:58:40 Yeah, that is sort of why I gave up on it. Feb 10 21:58:53 It's "neat", but the original CUDA is a toy. Feb 10 21:59:28 well assuming it will work for my simulations then "neat" is good enough :) Feb 10 21:59:31 You can make one-off things that run with it, but stuff like "constant memory gets reserved for the life of the application" are _terrible_ from a real software engineering perspective. Feb 10 22:00:17 Yeah. If you just care about the output, and aren't actually shipping this to anyone in a product, then it works. Feb 10 22:00:23 As I said, "one-off" things. Feb 10 22:00:24 yeah, reading about the multiple constraints and variable speedups sounds like a bugger to optimise properly Feb 10 22:00:37 ack Feb 10 22:00:57 The stuff like, "All variables in shared memory are placed at the same address" is just insane, too. Feb 10 22:01:21 You can work around it by declaring a struct to avoid having to do all the address calculations yourself. Feb 10 22:01:26 * lardman|home had not seen that Feb 10 22:01:29 But it's like, come _on_ people, this is what compilers are for. Feb 10 22:02:17 I don't need to use shared memory though, so perhaps that was also the thought of the CUDA designers ;) Feb 10 22:03:04 can applets be triggered from commandline? Feb 10 22:05:37 is Tear a good choice for a web browser on OS2008, or does it have pitfalls i have so far (in my 30 seconds test) missed? Feb 10 22:05:53 * lardman|home wonders how much texture memory his GTX 470 has Feb 10 22:06:21 LjL: i liked the speed a lot Feb 10 22:06:40 lardman|home, I'm pretty sure its 1.25GB for a stock 470 Feb 10 22:07:11 pupnik: so far i like that it has kinetic scrolling and that i can search google from the address bar (not just "i'm feeling lucky" style) Feb 10 22:07:16 PhonicUK: thanks, well that's more than enough for my needs Feb 10 22:09:00 are there any other gems from Mer (i believe Tear is from Mer, anyway?) i might want to try out? Feb 10 22:36:02 LjL: wish i'd installed a gps logger so i could have nailed the guy who stole my device :D Feb 10 22:36:35 in fact, it's tempting to set that situation up :) Feb 10 22:36:48 :( Feb 10 22:37:12 a potentially expensive experiment :P Feb 10 22:37:46 Nailbomb works better. Feb 10 22:39:08 ouch Feb 10 22:39:22 I awlays thought you guys are friendly ;) Feb 10 22:42:18 yeah, but you need a bucket to catch him then Feb 10 22:45:53 I have a n800 that i never really used. Is there anything newer than os2008 that will work on it? Debian or something? Feb 10 22:45:59 is MyTube supposed to be working, with the patch at http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=612619&postcount=308 ? Feb 10 22:52:36 all my reverse engineering and development efforts seem to be going nowhere :( Feb 10 22:52:57 no! Feb 10 22:53:02 what's up jonwil ? Feb 10 22:53:20 Cant seem to get anywhere with my reverse engineering efforts Feb 10 22:53:54 well yeah, I sort of got that bit ;) Feb 10 22:54:03 but what specifically? Feb 10 22:54:37 well I have been trying a few different things Feb 10 22:54:55 been trying to reverse engineer the isi/phonet stuff for GPS (as well as the interface to liblas) without success Feb 10 22:55:15 Also been interested in reverse engineering and cloning libcal, again no joy Feb 10 22:55:41 some of the GPS stuff is in the wiki isn't it? Feb 10 22:55:47 small bits of it Feb 10 22:55:50 but nowhere near the full story Feb 10 22:56:31 Well I was reverse engineering init (from the Tab) and likewise no immediate sucess, nasty compilation Feb 10 22:57:08 though init is quite small, but it is statically compiled which makes life harder Feb 10 22:58:13 I did find one thing for IDA that has helped a bit Feb 10 22:58:26 not aqualung? Feb 10 22:58:29 nope Feb 10 22:58:33 that never worked Feb 10 22:58:43 It lets you parse header files and it generates a type library file for it Feb 10 22:58:46 that you can load Feb 10 22:58:56 which then gives you all the typedefs and structure and enums Feb 10 22:58:57 hmm, sounds interesting Feb 10 22:59:13 so things like gboolean or DBusMessage or whatever Feb 10 22:59:27 what's that called? Feb 10 22:59:30 depending on various factors it may also automatically recognize imported functions Feb 10 23:00:14 tilib. But I doubt you have access to the place I found it :) Feb 10 23:00:21 What version of IDA are you using? Feb 10 23:00:42 5.something Feb 10 23:01:00 5.5? Feb 10 23:01:07 which works with aqualung Feb 10 23:01:19 the thing I have is for 5.5 Feb 10 23:01:20 dunno will have to check, i think before that though, is quite old Feb 10 23:01:27 ah ok Feb 10 23:01:34 5.5 is the newest I can find Feb 10 23:01:46 am tempted to write my own decompiler, would be quite interesting, but time consuming Feb 10 23:02:01 never ideal when you have something you want to get done :) Feb 10 23:02:04 yeah Feb 10 23:03:02 I've got to hit the sack, got a meeting first thing tomorrow, but would be interested to chat about your reverse engineering problems, perhaps over the weekend if you're about Feb 10 23:03:17 otherwise give me a shout next week Feb 10 23:03:26 anyway night all Feb 10 23:04:13 Maybe someone needs to win lotto and buy a copy of the new IDA PRO HexRays ARM decompiler and use that :P Feb 10 23:04:46 Although I have been pulling apart some x86 binaries from the SDK and HexRays isn't a magic bullet there either :P Feb 10 23:04:58 jonwil: Find a name inthe executable, and then turn up at their door with a large amount of alcohol. Feb 10 23:05:46 Our best hope for GPS is either that Nokia publishes the isi/phonet calls or that Nokia releases GPS for N900 MeeGo with a much smaller (and therefore easier to reverse engineer) set of closed bits Feb 10 23:06:03 jonwil: there is info for that in spec Feb 10 23:06:04 jonwil: that just happened: http://www.wirelessmodemapi.com/ Feb 10 23:06:15 I seen those before Feb 10 23:06:22 they cover most of isi/phonet Feb 10 23:06:24 but not GPS Feb 10 23:06:29 gps as well Feb 10 23:06:31 jonwil: ^^^^ oops too slow Feb 10 23:06:38 :) Feb 10 23:06:44 20:03 < DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: luke-jr, whom-it-may-concern: ISI specs actually mention how to talk GPS and even AGPS to cmt, it's called Modem LCS (Location Server) there. ((actually Mickey found this, so credit goes to him)) Feb 10 23:07:13 [2011-02-10 20:09:55] luke-jr: g2, i_modem_lcs_fp.pdf Feb 10 23:07:32 LCS = LoCation Server Feb 10 23:07:38 … Feb 10 23:08:05 jonwil: also, I reverse engineered the GPS protocol like a year ago Feb 10 23:08:28 V 11.0 Wireless Modem 10-Nov-2010 MSW-04.03 Feb 10 23:08:31 and released example code that works with gpsd Feb 10 23:08:33 from what I saw on the wiki, that's just parts of it. agps wasnt covered at that point Feb 10 23:08:42 no, I didn't mess w/ AGPS Feb 10 23:08:48 read those docs DocScrutinizer linked Feb 10 23:08:49 ^^^ footnote of i_modem_lcs_fp.pdf Feb 10 23:09:04 so it's quite fresh Feb 10 23:12:55 hmmm, those docs dont seem to match the N900, liblas is sending to a resource 80 whereas the LCS server in those docs is listed as being resource 144 Feb 10 23:13:49 problem with ISI is it's an incredibly universal concept, which inevitably multiplies complexity Feb 10 23:14:53 there might be spec-violations in BB5 CMT Feb 10 23:15:07 at least the 3d location report packet seems to match =) Feb 10 23:18:50 which packet is the 3D location report packet? Feb 10 23:24:36 anyone know if the EU's "one charger for all" chargers will do fast charge on n900 Feb 10 23:24:48 yes Feb 10 23:24:56 nice Feb 10 23:25:00 as long as it complies with usb standard Feb 10 23:25:11 but it should Feb 10 23:25:20 unless it's apple charger Feb 10 23:25:20 i mean the wall chargers Feb 10 23:26:10 The good news is that since the GPS phonet messages are in the modem spec, getting Nokia to release the specific specs for the n900 cellmo (to support GPS on MeeGo) should be easier :P Feb 10 23:27:28 anyone know whats happening with meego lately? Feb 10 23:27:31 ive heard some strange things Feb 10 23:29:22 how's fast charge supposed to work with usb? Feb 10 23:31:00 uh, for the n900, it bridges data +/- Feb 10 23:31:08 is that actually part of the usb spec though? Feb 10 23:31:24 the bridging the data pin method is the standard adopted now i think Feb 10 23:32:23 the usb3. spec allows something like 800mah-1ah to be drawn as i recall though, but no phones support that methinks Feb 10 23:33:09 hey Feb 10 23:33:11 ah, right http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs/batt_charging_1_1.zip Feb 10 23:34:55 is this the right place to ask some general questions about that os? Feb 10 23:35:15 ##linux Feb 10 23:35:20 but, yes Feb 10 23:36:01 is this application manager gui used to be not that stable? Feb 10 23:36:09 jonwil: MODEM_LCS_SB_RRC_REF_LOCATION or so I think. Feb 10 23:37:25 or MODEM_LCS_SB_RRC_LOCATION_INFO ... Feb 10 23:40:05 what's the name of the root device on nokia n900? I need to mount it Feb 10 23:40:23 /dev/mmcblk0p? Feb 10 23:40:28 0 Ithink is root Feb 10 23:40:32 err - no Feb 10 23:41:00 "rootfs" I don't think it's mapped in /dev Feb 10 23:41:07 it's like tmpfs Feb 10 23:41:07 df -h always tells me what is what Feb 10 23:41:29 so how can I mount it then? if it's not in dev :) Feb 10 23:41:43 /dev/mtd5 is root Feb 10 23:41:48 it's ubifs Feb 10 23:41:58 skrullis: but, but, but why you'd want to do that? Feb 10 23:41:58 skrullis: why do you think you need to mount it Feb 10 23:42:29 SpeedEvil: lol Feb 10 23:42:49 I just booted the device with an initrd :) Feb 10 23:43:22 I'm talking (via IM) with a coworker she's a beautiful girl of only 25 years old Feb 10 23:43:32 I wish I could be at least 10 years younger right now Feb 10 23:43:32 cat /proc/cmdline Feb 10 23:43:32 init=/sbin/preinit ubi.mtd=rootfs root=ubi0:rootfs rootfstype=ubifs rootflags=bulk_read,no_chk_data_crc rw console=ttyMTD,log console=tty0 snd-soc-rx51.hp_lim=42 snd-soc-tlv320aic3x.hp_dac_lim=6 Feb 10 23:43:51 skrullis: in that case you should know that mount a ubi volume is not as trivial as a ext3 one; you'll have to google a bit Feb 10 23:43:58 meh, now that's really polite and nice: Feb 10 23:44:01 This interface is used to forward a privacy notification (notification or verification) from Feb 10 23:44:02 the network. When the network wants to determine the position of the terminal, it can Feb 10 23:44:04 first ask the terminal for permission. When the network invokes the privacy Feb 10 23:44:05 notification in the terminal, it can either ask the terminal to request acceptance from Feb 10 23:44:07 the user (verification), or it can tell the terminal to notify the user, but not ask the user Feb 10 23:44:08 for acceptance (Notification). Feb 10 23:44:51 that's when a hammer comes handy. Feb 10 23:44:57 yep Feb 10 23:45:00 javispedro: ok... Feb 10 23:45:08 SpeedEvil: thanks Feb 10 23:46:21 DocScrutinizer: can we somehow block that? Feb 10 23:46:34 SpeedEvil: thanks! I tortured /etc with find -name *pre*init* all night long :-P Feb 10 23:46:50 kerio: with a hammer, like javispedro said Feb 10 23:47:08 I'm, unsure where it's getting the mtd partition number from in there Feb 10 23:47:23 javispedro: or with a nice MU-metal sleeve to shield all 1.8GHz(?) GPS signals Feb 10 23:49:15 kerio: or with a shorting plug for X6200 GPT RF test connector Feb 10 23:49:49 Or you operate a 4G device near the phone. Feb 10 23:50:44 anyway, the question is: can we make the device reliably signal when network is asking for a location report Feb 10 23:50:58 is it possible to access the ubifs over usb? Feb 10 23:51:08 it's way more useful than obscuring the true GPS location Feb 10 23:51:19 so I can mount it on my laptop Feb 10 23:51:35 *spoofing* GPS location however would be a really nice idea, as nobody would expect that Feb 10 23:51:35 skrullis: No. Not withthe usual software. Feb 10 23:51:42 Youcould in principle do nfs Feb 10 23:51:50 It's easy. Feb 10 23:51:54 Good evening guys and gals Feb 10 23:52:04 What is the news around here? :) Feb 10 23:52:06 (spoofing) Feb 10 23:52:28 the problem is that my phone doesn't boot, I was hacking a few files and know I need to undo the changes... or format it :( Feb 10 23:52:42 ~flashing Feb 10 23:52:43 flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Feb 10 23:52:51 Im;ess upi Feb 10 23:53:01 (well, it boots and it doesn't do anything else, over and over again) Feb 10 23:53:09 See above. Feb 10 23:53:35 skrullis: beware to deplete battery Feb 10 23:53:56 skrullis: you'll fall in a deadlock Feb 10 23:54:21 so it doesn't charge without os? Feb 10 23:54:22 as device doesn't charge while bootlooping, and doesn't flash with empty bat Feb 10 23:54:28 nope Feb 10 23:54:34 Anyone interested in the Nokia press conference scheduled for tomorrow? Or actually today... Feb 10 23:54:42 f*ck. Thanks for telling me Feb 10 23:54:52 skrullis: so you're new to the device, killed maemo and already playing with a custom initrd without learning to reflash first? =) Feb 10 23:55:22 hehe Feb 10 23:55:27 DrGrov: tomorrow. Feb 10 23:55:29 brave new user Feb 10 23:55:40 SpeedEvil: Yes, tomorrow for most of you guys :) Feb 10 23:55:45 http://twitter.com/#!/nokia Feb 10 23:55:58 SpeedEvil: It is today for me since it is 2 AM here. Feb 10 23:56:06 7h:35 min anyway Feb 10 23:56:47 javispedro: well I've had it a while and got pissed on the vfat user system (i tried to uncompress the linux kernel source on it and the filesystem went crazy because of to many files) so I was going to do my new ext2 automount and obviously i did bad things Feb 10 23:58:00 Simply flashing it should work fine. Feb 10 23:58:05 SpeedEvil: My plan is to stay awake until I read that 9:30 Finnish time scheduled memo Feb 10 23:58:30 SpeedEvil: I know, I am an idiot with a capital I Feb 10 23:59:22 Nobody got any theories on what Elop will announce tomorrow? Feb 10 23:59:40 I need someone to talk to about this before it drives me insane Feb 11 00:00:13 :o Feb 11 00:00:16 DrGrov: maybe you are taking this a bit too seriously? Feb 11 00:00:18 yay Feb 11 00:00:18 he will announce that he will not step down and will stay in office until September and then everyone will shake shoes at him Feb 11 00:00:32 thanks for help guys. sleeptime Feb 11 00:01:08 Per_n900: Well, perhaps yes now that you're saying so. Feb 11 00:01:55 Per_n900: I think just that it is very important for us Finns to see where Nokia is heading Feb 11 00:03:57 DrGrov: I see. All I know is that I promised myself in 1998 to never again buy anything microsoft related so if Nokia adopts windows phone 7, thats it for me with the nokias :( Feb 11 00:04:33 Per_n900: Yeah, I really hope that Elop is not cooking it up with Mr. Ballmer and throwing a M$ party later Feb 11 00:05:52 Per_n900: I fear though Elop have been cooking the soup already a long long time with M$. Feb 11 00:06:20 DrGrov, I seriously think that would be the end for Nokia. Microsoft is already dead but they just keep floating like a dead fish or something. Feb 11 00:06:26 They're licensing iOS. Feb 11 00:06:38 That's the only explanation. Feb 11 00:06:44 yeah, MSFT is so dead... Feb 11 00:06:45 DrGrov: Yes, thats not at all impossible. Feb 11 00:07:11 Per_n900: I still wonder why Elop was allowed to leave MS otherwise. There has to be a corpse buried somewhere. Feb 11 00:07:43 allowed? how could they force him to stay? Feb 11 00:08:31 Gorroth: Well not in the sense they allowed him to stay or made him stay. More like he had a plan already from the beginning to integrate Windows Phone 7(8 when they arrive?) into Nokia's strategy. Feb 11 00:08:47 oh Feb 11 00:08:50 Gorroth: Sorry, that was a poor explanation from the beginning. Feb 11 00:09:02 no, it's okay Feb 11 00:09:36 My dream scenario is that Elop announces the resignation of McDowell, Öistämö, Savander and the rest of these "high-end" executives and get down and dirty and clears house once and for all. Feb 11 00:10:19 And in the process keeps Symbian as the main platform and keeps the MeeGo view open and integrates it when it is suitable Feb 11 00:11:08 well, i still wanna see meego happen Feb 11 00:11:11 I would not care so much about this otherwise except that after the N97 I promised myself to never go with Nokia if they do not do something to bring the joy back. The N8 somehow gives that joy back, at least a bit. But still a long way to go. Feb 11 00:11:45 Gorroth: Me too, I really want MeeGo to happen. For me that is the logical next step in developing Nokia in the right direction. Feb 11 00:11:56 i think so too Feb 11 00:12:29 Android for me is too crowded already with Samsung, HTC etc. Feb 11 00:13:00 No need to crowd it even more with Nokia also competing in a segment that is way overcrowded. Feb 11 00:13:41 Gorroth: Would you stick with Nokia even if they go with Windows Phone 7 ? Feb 11 00:13:47 nah Feb 11 00:13:55 i don't really stick with them as it is Feb 11 00:13:59 Gorroth: Ok :) Feb 11 00:14:01 I would not buy a Windows Phone phone from anyone, Nokia included Feb 11 00:14:04 i have my n900, but i really just use my nexus one Feb 11 00:14:25 jonwil: I agree with you on that. Feb 11 00:14:28 oh, i don't think windows phone looks bad, but it needs some backend work on some things that bother me Feb 11 00:14:34 like SD card expansion and what not Feb 11 00:15:36 I think that Nokia could fix those issues but would the customers still believe in Nokia? Feb 11 00:15:59 Damn this Mr. Elop! You have mixed up my brain completely with your crypting sayings LOL Feb 11 00:16:04 all they need are some compelling products; people are fickle Feb 11 00:16:28 Gorroth, there is also the issue of trust. MS cant and should not be trusted with anything, and google is no better. But I guess everybody values different tings. Feb 11 00:16:46 Per_n900: I completely agree with you on that Google can not be trusted. Feb 11 00:17:07 Per_n900: that's a personal decision. i have no problem using google and/or microsoft Feb 11 00:17:12 Per_n900: I have tried to tell my wife that not to trust Google with too much information etc. She has a Galaxy S at the moment. Feb 11 00:17:27 i have a nexus one, and i love giving google my info Feb 11 00:17:41 I think my wife is a bit of a nerd actually like me :) Feb 11 00:17:43 anything i wouldn't care about someone knowing anyway Feb 11 00:18:01 Gorroth: Yeah, then it is no worries there. It is a personal preference anyhow :) Feb 11 00:18:37 My wife actually told me to try and come to sleep some time tonight.... That is 3 hours ago already :D Feb 11 00:18:47 Seems like I'm not going to bed :D Feb 11 00:18:54 heh Feb 11 00:18:59 Google and NSA are homies since a long time back, and I really do not like the NSA or any other agency like that. Feb 11 00:19:42 i have some differential equations to do in a while. i want to prove a theorem "i came up with" to directly solve exact first-order linear ODEs Feb 11 00:19:43 I think the lack of control over Windows Phone that Microsoft gives OEMs would hurt nokia Feb 11 00:19:48 Per_n900: I do agree with you on that last thing you said about not trusting agencies like the NSA or similar agencies. Feb 11 00:19:49 so i can then use that on my homework Feb 11 00:19:52 But I am slightly paranoid when it comes tho things like that. Feb 11 00:20:23 Per_n900: Paranoid, well that is a perfectly good approach to things today. I am also paranoid, slightly though only Feb 11 00:20:54 jonwil: You mean Nokia would lose the control of the products they develop? Feb 11 00:21:10 yes, Microsoft places too many hardware and software limits on OEMs Feb 11 00:21:22 Gorroth: You better not rely on my answers regarding anything mathematical nor such things LOL :) Feb 11 00:21:39 haha :) Feb 11 00:22:02 i actually know that more advanced people know theorems better than this, but it was awesome discovering this with a question the professor asked Feb 11 00:22:16 because now i can solve them all in a couple steps vs. the 10 steps the others will use Feb 11 00:22:33 Gorroth: Give me an example. Dying to know :) Feb 11 00:23:05 i take it you know what a total derivative of a multivariate function is? Feb 11 00:23:16 jonwil: Agree with you. Microsoft is locking their "stuff" and only keep the key themselves. That can and would seriously hurt Nokia. Feb 11 00:23:18 Gorroth: Sure Feb 11 00:23:40 Gorroth: Let's say so Feb 11 00:23:57 I think Microsoft is locking things down for what it believes are good reasons though Feb 11 00:24:03 DrGrov: well, a total differential of a function is also known as an exact equation in first-order ODEs Feb 11 00:24:18 Gorroth: NO! I do not want to know anymore! Too much information! LOL! Feb 11 00:24:22 and in this case, you can use some sort of method to solve them, but it takes several steps, depending on how many variables there are Feb 11 00:24:27 ok :) Feb 11 00:24:30 actually, i have to eat Feb 11 00:24:37 jonwil: sure, anything that keeps users in their ecosystem is a good reason, for them Feb 11 00:25:02 jonwil: Yes, they presume and think their reasons are good. Feb 11 00:25:32 I would think Nokias ecosystem would be lost somehow if adapting Microsofts ecosystem thinking. Feb 11 00:25:39 Where would Ovi be put for example? Feb 11 00:26:43 It would be like shooting yourself in the leg somehow. Feb 11 00:27:27 But perhaps things would be solved, not too confident though if Windows Phone is the right way to go. Feb 11 00:27:55 I strongly still believe MeeGo is the answer for Nokia. Feb 11 00:28:13 there's something really kind of morbidly funny at the prospect of nokia ditching linux for windows :P Feb 11 00:28:14 And as I said already, getting rid of too much "yes-yes executives" would be a good thing to start from Feb 11 00:28:34 ieatlint: It sure is, now that you say it in a sentence LOL Feb 11 00:28:56 * jonwil wonders what the easiest way to wire up to a DBUS signal would be Feb 11 00:29:00 well, it's reasonable to believe they're looking at diversifying Feb 11 00:29:09 not dropping meego, but still using another platform... Feb 11 00:29:18 if they bring qt to windows mobile 7, it'll be interesting Feb 11 00:29:58 and they better be damned clear tomorrow about what's happening at least.. suspense hurts everyone, especially their stock price Feb 11 00:30:07 WM is .net only Feb 11 00:30:15 is there a QT port for .net? Feb 11 00:30:25 indeed... so unlikely for qt Feb 11 00:30:44 but it'd be interesting :P Feb 11 00:30:47 .not mm ah yes. Feb 11 00:30:55 watch them come up with a QML interpretor that can run in .net Feb 11 00:31:45 ieatlint: They sure as hell need to be clear tomorrow. It is painful to see Nokia wandering about without any "purpose". Feb 11 00:32:35 As a Finn I do hate this current Nokia state that they are in. Nothing happening, just promises after promises and no delivery. Feb 11 00:32:49 finland is going to get screwed by it all.. Feb 11 00:32:52 ieatlint: The alternative is that tomorrow, they open-source _everything_ - and provide free hardware docs and everything. Feb 11 00:32:52 Good news everyone. I am seeing "incoming_cell_broadcast" in my syslog Feb 11 00:33:03 jonwil: :) Feb 11 00:33:08 the leaked memo already says they're moving major operations out of espoo Feb 11 00:33:20 I consider myself a quite good loyal customer since I have bought the N97, N900, N8 and countless of phones over the years. Feb 11 00:33:32 and they just bought a massive building out here in silicon valley Feb 11 00:33:32 I am definatly not loyal to Nokia. Feb 11 00:33:55 I am not going to be a loyal customer much longer though Feb 11 00:33:56 I consider myself a loyal customer since I bought both my phones from nokia over the years. Feb 11 00:34:01 3310 -> n900 Feb 11 00:34:05 hah Feb 11 00:34:08 SpeedEvil: :) Feb 11 00:34:10 I hope the n900 will last as well. Feb 11 00:34:30 well i know that part of tomorrow's announcement will be to push their "calling all innovators" stuff for the n8 Feb 11 00:34:40 Yeah, Finland will be screwed. But the politicians in this country are all a bunch of yes-yes persons doing the best for themselves. Feb 11 00:34:41 will be a new offer to try and get more people into it Feb 11 00:34:51 Fart apps of the world unite! Feb 11 00:35:16 SpeedEvil: hey, by that logic I'm then a Nokia fanboy! Feb 11 00:35:41 yaySatellite C_NO satellite_cno Value range: 0 to 63 Satellite code phase Fractional GPS chips fractional_chips Value range: 0 to 1023 ;; Doppler doppler Value range: -32768 to 32767 ;; Multipath indicator multipath_indicator Constant:... ;; Pseudo range RMS error pr_rms_error Value range: 0 to 63 Feb 11 00:35:54 Scandinavians have invented some cool products and brands Feb 11 00:35:58 umm Feb 11 00:36:02 SpeedEvil: ^^^ Feb 11 00:36:17 jonwil: Yes they have. For example Swedish smokeless tobacco known as SNUS! =) Feb 11 00:36:18 jonwil: Yes they have. For example Swedish smokeless tobacco known as SNUS! =) Feb 11 00:36:24 DocScrutinizer: Oooh! Feb 11 00:36:46 Nokia (inventor of the best phone ever made :), IKEA, SAAB, LEGO to name a few Feb 11 00:36:52 DrGrov: Ah snus! You like grov I presume? Feb 11 00:36:55 Hmm. Feb 11 00:37:11 DocScrutinizer: Is fractinal GPS chips an integer? Feb 11 00:37:16 * jonwil has an apartment full of IKEA furniture Feb 11 00:37:39 Per_n900: Sure do ;-) My lip is full of Grov Lös at the moment. No, Grov portion but I will crack up a good can of pure ultra fresh Grov Lös right about now. Feb 11 00:37:42 Satellite code phase Fractional GPS chips fractional_chips Value range: 0 to 1023 Feb 11 00:38:15 Per_n900: I like Ettan as well. I keep changing from brand to brand but always go back somehow to Grov. Feb 11 00:38:20 DrGrov, have yo tried göteborgs rape? Feb 11 00:38:20 DocScrutinizer: Sure - is that an integer I meant. Feb 11 00:38:31 yep, sure Feb 11 00:38:36 :/ Feb 11 00:38:45 Per_n900: I have always 3-5 different flavors in the fridge and freezer. Stockpiling :) Yes of course, Göteborgs Rape I have as well about 1 roll (10 cans). Feb 11 00:38:45 size in bytes: 2 Feb 11 00:38:49 Satellite code phase Whole GPS chips whole_chips Value range: 0 to 1022 Feb 11 00:39:10 DocScrutinizer: Pity - that gives a resolution of ... 300m on the code phase. Feb 11 00:39:32 Where's this from? Feb 11 00:39:44 zip:/home/jr/Documents/N900/docs/Wireless Modem API G2 V2 11w05.zip/i_modem_lcs_wm_isi_m.html#MODEM_LCS_PSEUDO_RANGE_DATA_SEQ_001_000 Feb 11 00:39:49 DrGrov, I really like göteborgs! I Smoke, and when I tried to replace cigarettes with snus, well... Now i smoke and do snus :) Feb 11 00:39:53 ah Feb 11 00:40:59 * jonwil hates people who smoke Feb 11 00:41:03 Per_n900: Me too :) I smoke 2-4 cigarettes per day and using snus about 1-1,5 can per day. I've been snusing for the past 15 years, 16 years later this year. Feb 11 00:41:26 Seeing a family member in hospital with cancer caused by smoking will do that to ya Feb 11 00:41:26 snus... Feb 11 00:41:31 isn't that illegal here? Feb 11 00:41:39 On IRC? Feb 11 00:41:49 jonwil: I have seen that as well. A relative though. Feb 11 00:42:01 no in the EU Kilroo Feb 11 00:42:11 it's illegal to sell in the EU except sweden Feb 11 00:42:12 Ah. Feb 11 00:42:15 BugBlue: where?? Snus illegal, I would hate that... Feb 11 00:42:20 BugBlue: No, it is legal to use but illegal to sell except Sweden Feb 11 00:42:46 I'm going to go on not knowing what you mean, because it amuses me to sit here and think "Well, my alarm clock has a snus button." Feb 11 00:42:51 My next snus stockpiling will be a gigantic stockpiling Feb 11 00:43:11 Kilroo: Snus is a smokeless tobacco product made in Sweden. Feb 11 00:43:24 haha the snusbutton :) Feb 11 00:43:26 I stopped smoking like 11 years ago Feb 11 00:43:36 DrGrov: yes, that's what I said :) Feb 11 00:43:40 why is it illegal then? Feb 11 00:43:45 what makes it different to regular tobacco Feb 11 00:43:58 smokeless or nicotineless? Feb 11 00:44:02 javispedro: because they outlawed selling it in 1992 after alarming research Feb 11 00:44:11 sweden got exception when joining the EU in 1994 Feb 11 00:44:28 Sweden... Yngve Malmsteen is from there"! Feb 11 00:44:35 that's all I know about Sweden :( Feb 11 00:44:52 javispedro: sorry, I ment jonwil Feb 11 00:44:59 ETAB-- Feb 11 00:45:20 Malmsteen is all you need to know about sweden really :) Feb 11 00:45:22 That "alarming research" was not conducted with Swedish snus but American version of snus Feb 11 00:46:59 Scandinavia ftw Feb 11 00:47:38 Yes, Scandinavia ftw Feb 11 00:48:09 DrGrov, you dont speak swedish do you? Feb 11 00:48:17 Per_n900: Jo, jag talar svenska. Feb 11 00:48:18 Doesn't Sweden also have some kind of like...tar-flavored candy? Feb 11 00:48:39 Kilroo: In Finland we have it as well. Feb 11 00:48:54 DrGrov, fantastiskt! )ag är obildad, varför gör så många finnar det? Feb 11 00:49:31 Per_n900: Inte så många egentligen. Ca 5,5% eller 6% vad det nu är är finlandssvenskar. Alltså är tvåspråkiga. Feb 11 00:49:51 Kilroo, yes, and we eat rotten fish from cans a few times a year, rather strange really. Feb 11 00:50:04 Per_n900: Det beror på att många av tvåspråkiga bor på västkusten av Finland. Egentligen från Karleby i norr till Åbo och Helsingfors i söder. Feb 11 00:50:47 Per_n900: Endera förälder är oftast finsk eller svensk och vice versa. Min pappa är svenskspråkig och mamma finskspråkig. Feb 11 00:51:26 DrGrov, I have learned something new! I tried to learn finnish when I dated a finnish girl, but its a hard language. Feb 11 00:53:30 Per_n900: It sure is a difficult language. Feb 11 00:53:37 Per_n900: From which part of Sweden are you? Feb 11 00:55:16 DrGrov: My family is scatterd all around the country, but I used to live in stockholm until very recently. I got fed up with people there, quit my job and moved to dalarna, right in the middle of nowhere. Feb 11 00:55:21 I prefer rotten grapes or barley Feb 11 00:58:39 DrGrov: and I am one of the people that thinks that our modern way of living is coming to an end, and it is wise to prepare for change in any way one can, hence the move to a less crowded area. Feb 11 00:58:53 where's dalarna? Feb 11 00:58:55 I really love those names: MODEM_LCS_RRC_POS_MEASURED_RESULT_REQ Feb 11 00:58:56 Per_n900: Feb 11 00:59:35 oh nm Feb 11 00:59:44 pupnik, dalarna is kind of in the middle of sweden. Feb 11 00:59:45 the REQuest is actually the result of a GPS fix, while MODEM_LCS_RRC_POS_MEASURED_RESULT_RESP is just a short ACK on that Feb 11 01:00:09 what kind of work Per_n900 ? Feb 11 01:02:16 Wireless Modem API - another nice way to lose your mind Feb 11 01:02:25 pupnik: I used to do security systems for banks, prisons and places like that, if that was what you was asking. Feb 11 01:02:38 neato Feb 11 01:05:40 * DocScrutinizer tries desparately to wipe those flyshits of his screen... åååååå Feb 11 01:06:32 so anyone here know anything about dbus signals? Feb 11 01:06:34 off* Feb 11 01:06:44 few Feb 11 01:06:58 what's got to know about them? Feb 11 01:07:04 How can I talk to one Feb 11 01:07:10 "talk to a signal"? Feb 11 01:07:15 somebody is sending them, and you may listen, ...or not Feb 11 01:07:19 thats whta I mean Feb 11 01:07:22 how can I listen to one Feb 11 01:07:29 I can see it in dbus-monitor Feb 11 01:07:39 now I want to wire up to it and dump the data Feb 11 01:07:43 well you first have to choose a dbus binding.. Feb 11 01:07:49 either low level, or glib's ones. Feb 11 01:07:58 if it's low level google for dbus_add_watch Feb 11 01:08:20 if it's glibs one it's just getting the proxy object and listening to normal glib signals, it will convert them for you Feb 11 01:08:46 wow Feb 11 01:08:59 DocScrutinizer you never sleep`? Feb 11 01:09:00 * DocScrutinizer BURPs on proxy objects Feb 11 01:09:11 'cos I can see you talking here 24/7 with no breaks Feb 11 01:09:17 sleep is for the weak! Feb 11 01:09:22 and it's actually 2 am where you are? Feb 11 01:09:48 no, I faked your [CTCP] CTCP-TIME-req answer :-P Feb 11 01:10:03 :( Feb 11 01:10:23 actually it's 2:09 on my PC Feb 11 01:11:57 but you're right, I should try and get some breakfast Feb 11 01:12:02 haha Feb 11 01:17:32 Sc0rpius: I'm too old to sleep Feb 11 01:17:58 don't worry, you'll sleep when you're dead Feb 11 01:18:06 exactly :-D Feb 11 01:30:04 anyone know how to use dbus_bus_add_match? Feb 11 01:30:11 cant find anything of value on google Feb 11 01:36:35 Damn I hate this waiting Feb 11 01:48:42 Anyone own a Nokia N8 ? Feb 11 01:50:45 no Feb 11 01:51:08 Ok Feb 11 01:51:26 Just thought, haven't got any confirmation about the new PR 1.1 firmware... Feb 11 01:51:36 Not sure though how someone can get it before others. Feb 11 01:52:12 Does Nokia always do firmware upgrades in steps and make it available in different regions on different times? Feb 11 01:52:33 i don't know Feb 11 01:52:45 Ok, thanks though. Feb 11 01:52:50 Gotta be patient and still wait Feb 11 01:52:57 how do you like the n8? Feb 11 01:52:59 Beginning of week is more likely next month Feb 11 01:53:05 I do love the N8 Feb 11 01:53:06 i think its' beautiful Feb 11 01:53:14 and wow, what a camera Feb 11 01:53:17 I agree, it is beautiful Feb 11 01:53:24 Yes, the camera is extremely good Feb 11 01:53:33 Makes absolutely fantastic close up pictures Feb 11 01:53:39 i did some comparisons to the n900 camera Feb 11 01:53:43 and it was better Feb 11 01:54:08 Not done any 720p HD video yet since I have not found anything to film but hopefully I will find something come spring Feb 11 01:54:12 but i find the n900 camera good enough Feb 11 01:54:40 Yes, I liked the N900 camera as well. Good enough pictures and clearly good to use on a daily basis. Feb 11 01:54:57 The N8 though I gotta love even if I have taken some longer distance pictures. Feb 11 01:55:44 pupnik: You've seen some nice videos with the N8 and its 720p HD video capture? Feb 11 01:56:07 mmm. i never tried that Feb 11 01:56:32 just took some comparison pics Feb 11 01:56:48 Ok Feb 11 01:56:48 the styling is beautiful on n8 Feb 11 01:57:01 so much better than asian stuff Feb 11 01:57:20 I do not like the HTC way of styling the phone Feb 11 01:58:24 i would have preferred the N8 with a kickstand Feb 11 01:58:35 pupnik: This has to be my favorite N8 video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r8Hm-GKvJ4 Feb 11 01:58:57 Yes, now that you mention it. It feels difficult to watch a movie with the N8 without the kickstand Feb 11 02:00:12 are you happy with the OS? it seemed fine to me except for the lockups Feb 11 02:00:29 What lockups? Feb 11 02:00:50 well i didn't see the recent releases Feb 11 02:01:04 I have had no issues with lockups Feb 11 02:01:09 good Feb 11 02:01:16 Ah well, today with Ovi Maps it kind of locked up due to my mistake. Feb 11 02:01:56 i was thinking of selling my camera and getting the n8 Feb 11 02:02:06 but it would have still been too expensive for me Feb 11 02:02:08 I was pressing a few times extra since it lagged a bit so I got a error that I can not do that Feb 11 02:02:15 ah Feb 11 02:02:28 that is often a torture test for software Feb 11 02:02:28 But that is just not a problem luckily. Feb 11 02:02:45 I just exited the Maps and re-entered and no issues nor problems Feb 11 02:03:05 i don't see why people say symbian can't be modern Feb 11 02:03:14 Yeah, me neither. Feb 11 02:03:27 I really love Symbian since it makes at least my life a whole lot easier Feb 11 02:03:33 I think it is modern in its own way. Feb 11 02:04:06 it's just a belief that has spread among the phone crowd Feb 11 02:04:26 Yes, unfortunately people tend to go with what is the "in" of the moment. Feb 11 02:04:34 Symbian "was" in but not anymore. Feb 11 02:05:01 I will not go back to an Android OS based phone. I have the Galaxy 3, the mini Galaxy S and I must say I am far from satisfied. Feb 11 02:05:12 interesting! Feb 11 02:05:27 Why interesting!? :) Feb 11 02:05:37 not many people have experience with both Feb 11 02:06:06 Ah yes, that is true. Feb 11 02:06:22 maemo is fun for me because i know how to make it do what i want Feb 11 02:06:37 Yes, I love Maemo too :) Feb 11 02:07:00 I had it do what I wanted but still it found a better home. I sold it for a reasonable and cheap price for my cousin. Feb 11 02:07:16 is he a linux person? Feb 11 02:07:29 Yes, he is. He is the reason I got into Linux in the first place. Feb 11 02:08:12 i don't think maemo needed to be abandoned. just a few more 800x480 phones Feb 11 02:08:17 bigger, smaller... Feb 11 02:08:24 cheaper, more expensive Feb 11 02:08:52 so much effort got thrown away Feb 11 02:09:02 meh Feb 11 02:10:07 none of my annoyances were unfixable Feb 11 02:10:47 No, Maemo could easily co-exist with Meego/Symbian if Nokia tells that tomorrow. Feb 11 02:10:53 I do not see the problem. Feb 11 02:11:31 and there's a lot of fun software for it now. put on speakers that don't need software filtering. oled display... Feb 11 02:11:41 4 row keyboard Feb 11 02:11:49 1500mAh+ battery Feb 11 02:13:03 let ppl install meego on the same device if they want Feb 11 02:13:30 maybe a modular camera system Feb 11 02:13:34 not really a linux person myself, but I like being able to do what I want with my phone Feb 11 02:15:59 pupnik: The camera is already replacable. Feb 11 02:16:14 pupnik: Admittedly, there aren't anysuitable replacement cameras AIUI Feb 11 02:16:20 ah Feb 11 02:17:57 it looked detachable indeed Feb 11 02:18:12 pupnik: Will Meego somehow be a fully functional thing on the N900 eventually? Feb 11 02:18:19 i don't know Feb 11 02:21:57 pupnik: I hope so, then I will get myself a N900 again :) Feb 11 02:22:52 i wish for slightly improved device Feb 11 02:24:38 is not so impossible :( Feb 11 02:25:44 but nokia wants to make giant steps Feb 11 02:27:33 * jonwil wonders who around here might be able to ping the right people at Nokia about getting the correct GPS/LCS info/packet formats for the N900 Feb 11 02:27:43 which is one of the 5 pieces of info I wish I had at this point Feb 11 02:28:07 eh Feb 11 02:28:27 would 'gpsmon' help you? Feb 11 02:31:15 nope, it wont Feb 11 02:31:53 whats needed is documentation on the packet formats and messages for the specific isi/phonet cell modem firmware on the N900 Feb 11 02:32:01 those that apply to the N900 Feb 11 02:32:41 Hi Feb 11 02:33:00 Anyone tried chat roulette on the n900? Feb 11 02:33:52 the camera does not work with flash. Feb 11 02:34:33 Ohhhh Feb 11 02:35:05 jonwil: what's missing/different? Feb 11 02:35:39 Damn this waiting for 9:30 AM Finnish time Feb 11 02:35:45 jonwil: aiui the ofono people used that spec we mentioned before Feb 11 02:35:53 well GPS is definatly different Feb 11 02:36:01 that's possible Feb 11 02:36:05 liblas is sending packets to a resource ID 84 Feb 11 02:36:19 SpeedEvil: Does the cam works with html5? Feb 11 02:36:55 and yet PN_MODEM_LCS in those headers is 144 Feb 11 02:38:20 It would also be very usefull to know what values of AT_MODEM_ISI_VERSION, MODEM_CALL_ISI_VERSION, SMS_ISI_VERSION etc match the N900 cellmo firmware Feb 11 02:39:03 I bet there's a way to query cmt Feb 11 02:39:55 0nnnnpppoà Feb 11 02:40:43 flat`: ???? Feb 11 02:40:58 damn, vimeo doesn't work on the n900. How do they dare to use it on the official website as a flash showoff Feb 11 02:57:09 so yeah it would be good to get the right GPS info for N900 cellmo firmware. With that, someone could write open-source GPS for MeeGo and go down that route instead of waiting for Nokia to port liblas, location-daemon, location-proxy etc :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Feb 11 02:59:57 2011