**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Feb 12 02:59:57 2011 Feb 12 02:59:58 its Palm (now GP) only Feb 12 02:59:59 HP Feb 12 03:00:01 i bet hp would've played ball Feb 12 03:00:06 Pretty much anything, other than iOS, would be better than MS' OS Feb 12 03:00:06 jonwil: what ieatlint said... Feb 12 03:00:14 * doc|home eating and therefore slow Feb 12 03:00:15 it'd benefit hp a lot Feb 12 03:00:23 and hp and nokia already are huge business partners Feb 12 03:00:36 I'd prefer iOS to WP7. Feb 12 03:00:50 android wasn't chosen because nokia didn't want to be just another android phone maker... they'd rather be THE windows phone maker Feb 12 03:00:54 Ken-Young: I'm not sure I'd go *that* far :) Feb 12 03:01:18 Ken-Young: it's mostly the same, either way ;P Feb 12 03:01:21 Whats really needed is a brand new smartphone OS based on a true linux foundation, not the half-assed job that Android and WebOS and etc have been Feb 12 03:01:36 Good solid linux base with good solid hardware underneath Feb 12 03:01:39 well, that's not meego either :P Feb 12 03:01:47 whats wrong with MeeGo? Feb 12 03:01:59 are there design decisions made there that are wrong? Feb 12 03:01:59 the fact that development is done internally and secretly Feb 12 03:02:19 they push huge blobs of code out every three to six months Feb 12 03:02:33 hm, what is acutally an alternative to maemo? (if my n900 breaks and i can't find another one; meego is as of now out of the race, unknown release) Feb 12 03:02:39 so the community can't participate, because the code you're working on is already out of date by the time it's available Feb 12 03:02:47 hahaha, from #meego http://i.imgur.com/dMX1f.png Feb 12 03:03:08 ends up being open source just like android is. you can get the source, which meets the basic definition of "open source", but not much more Feb 12 03:03:23 doc|home: so sad. Feb 12 03:03:53 ieatlint: what parts are developed in secret? Feb 12 03:04:07 but yeah like I said, build a true open source foundation developed as open source and then build whatever fancy proprietary UX you need to differentiate the product Feb 12 03:04:10 doc|home: AWESOME XD Feb 12 03:04:28 I am puzzled about the purpose of the Maemo Garage. If I submit an app to Extras Testing, is there any advantage to having the project in the garage too? I know it provides mailing list, discussion areas etc - but those ALWAYS seem to be empty. What's the point of the garage, for apps? Feb 12 03:04:30 February last year: http://twistedminds.ru/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/maemo-rip.jpg Feb 12 03:04:33 wmarone: there are internal repos with much much more developed meego versions than public Feb 12 03:04:52 That's twice Nokia has made me feel like I've been punched in the stomach in less than 12 months. Feb 12 03:04:55 Bastards. Feb 12 03:05:12 which was the first one again? Feb 12 03:05:14 i bet the meego conference is still on :P Feb 12 03:05:17 GeneralAntilles: worst part is how all the people responsible for stupid decisions like that are going to be sticking around Feb 12 03:05:18 memory being short Feb 12 03:05:19 * jonwil wonders what Nokia gains by having internal repos for MeeGo and not having it developed out in puiblic Feb 12 03:05:35 jonwil: control Feb 12 03:05:36 GeneralAntilles, haha that image is gold Feb 12 03:05:55 jonwil: and no interfering 3rd party devs Feb 12 03:05:55 it'll be like a wake... lots of alcohol, a bunch of people talking about how awesome meego "is", and the dead body of nokia in the room Feb 12 03:06:05 they could still have control by limiting acceptance of patches Feb 12 03:06:09 How much of the hardware APIs on the N900 remain closed? Feb 12 03:06:24 GeneralAntilles: what was the first punch? Feb 12 03:06:26 doc|home: even if they opened it up to read-only access? Feb 12 03:06:26 jonwil: hiding the fact that the system is severely behind schedule from their shareholders Feb 12 03:06:36 yeah good point ieatint Feb 12 03:06:38 Dhraakellian: can do that from what they release Feb 12 03:06:42 mikki-kun: MeeGo. Feb 12 03:06:43 http://twistedminds.ru/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/maemo-rip.jpg Feb 12 03:07:00 hey, we still can hope for harmattan, can we? Feb 12 03:07:11 As for closed hardware on the N900, the BME is still closed Feb 12 03:07:17 GeneralAntilles: while I'm unsure of whether MeeGo's UI would be better than Maemo's, that's less of a punch Feb 12 03:07:23 mikki-kun: what's the point? :/ Feb 12 03:07:24 it's still F/OSS(mostly) Feb 12 03:07:34 the low level interface to the CAL is closed Feb 12 03:07:44 mikki-kun: not ruled out, but i personally bet it will get cancelled Feb 12 03:07:50 doc|home: harmattan is independant from meego Feb 12 03:08:00 wtf-tla: CAL, BME? Feb 12 03:08:11 ieatlint: i do hope not, but hey, let's not abandon all hope, shall we? Feb 12 03:08:12 CAL is the special phone configuration area Feb 12 03:08:13 harmattan is more of a hybrid of meego... not really independent methinks Feb 12 03:08:18 mikki-kun: I know, but, why bother? do people care that much about meego on the phone? Feb 12 03:08:22 for things like the wifi mac address Feb 12 03:08:27 jonwil: ah Feb 12 03:08:36 BME is the battery management daemon Feb 12 03:08:38 doc|home: meego is, as an OS, open in ways that maemo is not Feb 12 03:08:43 the actual GSM stack is also proprietary, isn't it? Feb 12 03:09:00 given that the only FS GSM stack out there only did 2G, last I heard Feb 12 03:09:04 on Maemo the telephony stack is closed Feb 12 03:09:08 Dhraakellian: I think legally they have to be Feb 12 03:09:09 Dhraakellian: yes, but it also does not run in user space Feb 12 03:09:13 on MeeGo, the cell modem firmware remains closed Feb 12 03:09:17 @%$&@ the FCC Feb 12 03:09:21 seriously Feb 12 03:09:22 but the userspace bits are open source via ofono Feb 12 03:09:36 ieatlint: i took it for granted harmattan might be built on top of maemo and tweaked and made better and some meego patches being incorporated... might have been the perfec platform to sell for meego-development if made properly Feb 12 03:09:44 loophole-filled net neutrality, decency laws... Feb 12 03:09:45 even with the stack itself being closed, couldn't they still have opened the API to use the stack? Feb 12 03:10:07 as a ham, I suppose I should stay on their good side, but still narf the FCC with a dull rusty spoon Feb 12 03:10:23 the API for talking to the cell modem is largely open via the ofono source code Feb 12 03:10:36 ah Feb 12 03:10:48 jonwil: but the actual communication with the hardware is closed? Feb 12 03:11:03 the communication with the cell modem is 100% open Feb 12 03:11:18 well not 100% Feb 12 03:11:24 but its open Feb 12 03:12:02 the details of the CPU running the cell modem firmware are proprietary though Feb 12 03:12:10 its separate to the main CPU Feb 12 03:12:21 its just a black box you talk to with a documented interface Feb 12 03:12:38 it's probably some evil low power MIPS thing ;) Feb 12 03:12:52 Its probably ARM Feb 12 03:12:55 jonwil: which is the thing to which Stallman et al. object Feb 12 03:13:01 it's not, it's regulatory Feb 12 03:13:03 and for good reason, methinks Feb 12 03:13:22 Also closed is the stuff that sends the WiFi settings to the wlan card (which appears to be closed because its the bit that determines whether to apply US FCC WiFi rules, EU WiFi rules or whatever) Feb 12 03:13:32 e.g. which channels the WiFi chip can legally talk on Feb 12 03:13:36 Dhraakellian: RMS and the like may get antsy about it, but you have to know which battles to fight Feb 12 03:13:49 using those pads in the back, would t be possible to interface the main processor to the modem more directly? Feb 12 03:13:58 wmarone: still, I think they do have a point Feb 12 03:14:02 TiagoTiago: if there are even connections for that Feb 12 03:14:20 Also closed is the PowerVR GPU Feb 12 03:14:22 Dhraakellian: and the only way they can win that argument is by offering up an alternative, thus the open source GSM stack Feb 12 03:14:34 however I think they'll hit EDGE about the time everyone is done moving to LTE Feb 12 03:14:40 yarr Feb 12 03:15:14 The problem with the opensource stacks is that actually talking to a real cell tower with it would be illegal Feb 12 03:15:22 * Dhraakellian wonders if Ron Paul could be convinced to crusade against the FCC as unconstitutional Feb 12 03:15:34 jonwil: not part-whatever certified? Feb 12 03:15:43 jonwil: well, if they get it tested and signed off by the FCC, they can't rightly complain Feb 12 03:15:49 Dhraakellian: I believe that he already does Feb 12 03:16:01 wmarone: well, a particular build could be Feb 12 03:16:04 It's illegal to connect to a tower with custom software even if it's well behaved? Feb 12 03:16:06 Dhraakellian: No thanks, I rather like not having errant electromagnetic signals destroying all of my electronics Feb 12 03:16:25 GPS and camera I believe may be partially closed on N900 MeeGo Feb 12 03:16:28 GPS is definatly closed Feb 12 03:16:30 camera I am not sure about Feb 12 03:16:37 wmarone: yeah, it sucks either way Feb 12 03:16:42 TiagoTiago: how do you have a backdoor if it's custom software? :) Feb 12 03:16:43 friggin' human nature Feb 12 03:16:44 camera software is, I think FCamera API directly interfaces Feb 12 03:16:50 the camera does run closed firmware though Feb 12 03:17:03 back later Feb 12 03:17:06 as do the WiFi and bluetooth chips Feb 12 03:17:27 I don't consider firmware a problem Feb 12 03:17:38 * Dhraakellian wonders if he should bother looking into porting the Qt4 branch of Qtel (Linux echolink client) to Maemo Feb 12 03:17:49 but yeah I am hoping Nokia will document the cell-modem commands required to talk to the GPS Feb 12 03:18:00 jonwil: true Feb 12 03:18:10 might be a tad ambitious for a first project, but it'd be cool to have, and I'd probably learn a fair bit along the way Feb 12 03:19:14 I hope Nokia opens up the GPS instead of doing a half-assed port of the Maemo GPS stack to MeeGo Feb 12 03:19:36 No reason they cant just document the isi calls and let the community write a gpsd backend for it Feb 12 03:19:49 jonwil: yeah, because what we're getting from them with today's news is open is something they care about :) Feb 12 03:20:06 they may not care about "open" Feb 12 03:20:08 doc|home: get the sympathetic ears while you can! Feb 12 03:20:15 hehehe Feb 12 03:20:18 but they may care about "less work for us to maintain this stuff" Feb 12 03:20:33 We need some pissed off hackers to reverse enginner the stuff, pissed off hackers usually get the job done much faster than when the hackers still wanna give the company a chance Feb 12 03:20:58 I am a pissed off hacker who has been reverse engineering stuff and getting nowhere Feb 12 03:21:37 we need more of you Feb 12 03:22:09 pissed off that the N900 cant support a feature (cell broadcast) supported on a cheap B&W screen nokia dumbphone from 10 years ago Feb 12 03:22:54 pissed off that the only reason it cant support it is because we dont know how to listen to the IncomingCBS signal and because we cant talk to the connectivity UI libraries (libconnui, libconnui-cellular etc) Feb 12 03:23:00 like how it happened with Kinect, with the PS3 and so on, if the companies didn't piss off the hackers and bragged about the alleged inviolability of their systems things would be much different today Feb 12 03:23:23 MS actually supported hacking of Kinect Feb 12 03:23:39 Sony actually let users run Linux Feb 12 03:23:44 ...and look how that turned out Feb 12 03:24:16 Didn't they bragged about how it couldn't be hacked and tried to sue some people that were offering a prize to get it hacked? Feb 12 03:24:35 The problem started when they removed the ability to run Linux Feb 12 03:24:41 yarr Feb 12 03:24:52 The problem started with the PS3 slim didnt include the linux support Feb 12 03:24:54 the DMCA needs to die. Feb 12 03:25:01 no, it needs to have died back in 1998 Feb 12 03:25:03 Feb 12 03:25:07 that then got geohot and others inerested Feb 12 03:25:18 and they came up with the initial exploit Feb 12 03:25:22 the memory glitching or whatever Feb 12 03:25:27 They also removed the ability on older models with a fw update Feb 12 03:25:31 which caused Sony to get mad and remove OtherOS Feb 12 03:25:44 which caused the hackers to get even madder Feb 12 03:25:52 eventually leading first to the PS3 jailbreak Feb 12 03:25:58 oh, that part i wasn't aware Feb 12 03:26:23 then to the discovery of the weakness in the Sony crypto which lead to the secret signing keys being published Feb 12 03:26:51 jonwil: failoverfl0w did iirc the real jailbreaking, the maths behind it and such, geohot just followed those instructions so everyone can get the key "fast" Feb 12 03:26:52 anyway, seems the bestway to get things hacked faster is to piss off hackers and dare them to do it Feb 12 03:27:16 and then to the current "lets sue anyone even THINKING about doing something with a PS3 other than playing games or watching media content" lawsuits Feb 12 03:27:55 jonwil: "it only does everything" <--- sony's slogan for the ps3... yeah, except let you hack it to make it do everything again... Feb 12 03:28:28 Well, with the crappy protection it actually does Feb 12 03:28:50 Sony just sues you then Feb 12 03:29:04 If I had the information on the IncomingCBS signal and the header files for libconnui and libconnui-cellular, I could have cell broadcast SMS (at least for the cell tower location) working by the end of the month Feb 12 03:29:14 The device let you do it, the company on the other hand.... Feb 12 03:30:31 If I had the headers for libisi (and the right ones for the N900 cell modem) I could pull large chunks of the telephony stack apart... (GPS included) Feb 12 03:30:53 jonwil: let's hope they copied sony with "int getrandomnumber" ^^ Feb 12 03:31:06 Btw, is the code and instructions to set up your own cryptbreaker PS3 cluster avaiable on the net? Feb 12 03:31:10 I dont mean the modem firmware Feb 12 03:31:15 I mean the user-space stack Feb 12 03:31:24 the modem firmware I dont care about Feb 12 03:31:38 I care about the user space stack, i.e. the csd daemon and friends Feb 12 03:31:45 and the GPS daemon Feb 12 03:31:47 and stuff Feb 12 03:32:12 TiagoTiago: cryptbreaker ps3 cluster? Feb 12 03:32:22 like the FBI did Feb 12 03:32:38 Or perhaps it was the CIA or somthing Feb 12 03:32:47 that uhhhh..... for pw-cracking? Feb 12 03:33:09 they put a bunch of PS3 together to make a cheap super computer to break encryptions Feb 12 03:33:32 before Sony locked things down Feb 12 03:38:00 hm... army uses them for image processing Feb 12 03:38:09 i think they have around 2k ps3s for that Feb 12 03:39:42 So, that's why the US hasn't found Osama Bin Laden Feb 12 03:39:47 2000 PS3s Feb 12 03:40:52 I wonder if tax payers get told, "Yeah, we brought 2000 ps3s with your tax money" Feb 12 03:40:55 :P Feb 12 03:41:15 so it's obvious we all here have our PS3 jailbroken Feb 12 03:41:22 otherwise all this talking would be kinda useless hehehe Feb 12 03:41:24 and I'm kidding :) Feb 12 03:41:56 * Dhraakellian does not have any gaming consoles Feb 12 03:42:12 more of a Nexuiz/Xonotic guy myself Feb 12 03:43:12 Sc0rpius: my ps3 is quarter a globe away from me :/ Feb 12 03:43:37 I am considering buying one or two when i get enough money Feb 12 03:45:00 Wasn't before the key cracking event Feb 12 03:45:43 Termana: cheaper and more efficient than buying those chips and assembling the machines Feb 12 03:47:22 mikki-kun, that's probably true, though I don't think a majority of the tax payers would actually realise that. Feb 12 03:48:00 I also don't own a PS3. I don't have time to play games :p Feb 12 03:56:17 If I can find the right people to ping maybe I can get some of the headers and info I need for my projects to succeed :) Feb 12 03:59:42 but finding the right people to ping is the hard part :P Feb 12 04:12:03 Guess everyone left :( Feb 12 04:16:30 usually gets quiet around this time Feb 12 04:21:58 :) Feb 12 04:24:50 maybe I will find someone appropriate to ping later :) Feb 12 04:59:02 Termana, funny, neither do I. *g* Feb 12 05:00:06 2 minutes Feb 12 05:01:25 then here in germany antique **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Feb 12 05:01:48 2011 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Feb 12 05:02:14 2011 Feb 12 05:02:34 then in germany ancient time stamp for {[] Feb 12 05:02:52 for night sleep time is over **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Feb 12 05:02:53 2011 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Feb 12 05:03:33 2011 Feb 12 05:32:18 morning Feb 12 05:39:15 anyone else get a ^M when they press enter in a remote vim sesh? Feb 12 05:39:58 prgrm: It is known issue on "Maemo fremantle" Feb 12 05:40:29 I've got some random ^M in my dmesg output on the Tab Feb 12 05:41:20 phellarv: cause? workaround? Feb 12 05:41:39 *pahartik Feb 12 05:46:18 no Feb 12 05:46:31 don't get a ^m Feb 12 05:46:33 prgrm: There is patch... Trying to see if I can find it... Feb 12 05:49:23 i was thinkin it was a TERM issue, but its only vim (sometimes dpkg as well has issues) Feb 12 05:50:03 maybe ill just upgrade vim to maverick or natty... i was hoping there was an easy fix. Feb 12 05:51:33 prgrm: It is issue on "Maemo", upgrading remote system is not expected to help Feb 12 05:52:19 remote or local? Feb 12 05:53:07 is it a TERM issue? Feb 12 05:53:18 cant reproduce it Feb 12 05:55:55 prgrm: Does description on this document look correct: "https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6009"? Feb 12 05:55:56 Bug 6009: "Enter" key sends wrong keycode to console applications Feb 12 05:58:18 its a gnu screen issue appearently... Feb 12 05:58:24 iv discovered.. Feb 12 05:58:54 i wasnt thinkin about it, i use screen so much Feb 12 06:00:07 prgrm: It is not "screen" issue, but "screen" is one application that reveals it Feb 12 06:01:07 wtf mann Feb 12 06:06:47 in my experience, it is only reproducible in the maemo xterm app, and only with certain fullscreen apps that manipulate the terminal (including "less" and various editors) Feb 12 06:06:49 prgrm: If I recall correctly, I fixed it on "Maemo fremantle PR1.2" I currently use by "dpkg --install", maybe one can fetch that... "libvte" from "Community SSU"... Feb 12 06:07:32 what is the community ssu? Feb 12 06:09:29 prgrm: It is what "Maemo fremantle" continues as, after "Nokia" lost interest in it... Community upgrade Feb 12 06:10:02 ah Feb 12 06:10:26 what's with all the double quotes? Feb 12 06:11:30 prgrm: Document at "http://wiki.maemo.org.ipv6.sixxs.org/Community_SSU" Feb 12 06:12:07 thanks Feb 12 06:12:43 the bug reports have some workarounds. i was suspecting there were some TERM issues... Feb 12 06:15:16 i love maemo Feb 12 06:15:25 friggin awesome Feb 12 06:15:28 can you provide a example Feb 12 06:16:17 sid: apt/dpkg upgrades complain of LC_* crap Feb 12 06:17:01 output - pastbin Feb 12 06:17:30 i have to push "s" for "si" even if apt tells me "(Y/n)" Feb 12 06:17:44 beat that Feb 12 06:18:30 sid: its random, and i havnt been saving apt-get output Feb 12 06:19:11 kerio wha? Feb 12 06:19:56 on apt Feb 12 06:20:43 howd you do that? Feb 12 06:22:22 prgrm: random? than it is unique: reproduce it and post it Feb 12 06:26:11 sid: unique to certain packages maybe, reproducing it is a low prio as its non-blocking Feb 12 06:27:00 again prob related to the half ass vte implementation Feb 12 06:27:42 http://pupnik.de/photos/Summer_Skin_Beetle_sm.html Feb 12 06:27:43 i may try the community ssu stuff, looks promising Feb 12 06:27:47 sorry, but .e.g? Feb 12 06:28:29 some sampe outout or else Feb 12 06:29:42 sid: ill get right on it Feb 12 06:30:38 pupnik: wont open a file without description Feb 12 06:30:53 'will not Feb 12 06:32:40 sid: good policy - it is a picture i made while drunk of a bug on my hand Feb 12 06:43:05 prgrm_: Supposedly fixed "libvte" seems to be available at "http://repository.maemo.org.ipv6.sixxs.org/community-testing/pool/fremantle/free/v/vte/" Feb 12 06:52:15 sorry; you are definely right; its a bug! Feb 12 07:45:13 my n800 is being weird Feb 12 07:45:24 time to reflash I think :( Feb 12 07:48:41 im pissed i just rebooted my n900 cuz i thought it had a prob, but it was my wireless. now my uptimes back to 0. :( Feb 12 07:49:08 from 16 days Feb 12 08:11:48 prgrm, I had an uptime of ~100days ) Feb 12 08:27:17 what is community-ssu-enabler suppoed to do? Feb 12 08:32:26 prgrm: enable the community ssu Feb 12 08:32:26 duh Feb 12 08:32:29 :P Feb 12 08:36:39 log? Feb 12 08:39:53 hi. im trying to install bluemaemo but get this error: conflicts with application package: libeina0 Feb 12 08:39:56 any got a clue? Feb 12 08:42:22 or is it just broken and cant be installed in any way? Feb 12 08:44:16 keep trying Feb 12 08:44:38 contact package maintainer Feb 12 08:44:52 you know how to do that Kowalczyk ? Feb 12 08:45:05 hehe no. but will try again _:D Feb 12 08:45:14 Kowalczyk: unlike with microsoft Feb 12 08:45:20 with maemo Feb 12 08:45:26 you can talk to the guy who made the package Feb 12 08:45:34 so do that Feb 12 08:45:51 ok :) will look into it.. but I have to go now. thanks Feb 12 08:46:25 -libeina0 Feb 12 08:47:36 ruskie: I had "Nokia N900" uptime of more than 100 days but then once fell asleep without it connected to charger Feb 12 08:47:48 or -Kowalczyk it will probally work Feb 12 08:51:13 * Trizt got a bit horrified when read the Nokia news at Tom's hardware... seems like next cellphone may not be a Nokia :( Feb 12 08:51:37 will be... but it will be a S40 device ;) Feb 12 08:51:54 or WP7 Feb 12 08:52:09 nope Feb 12 08:52:32 of course it'll be quite some years before I'll even consider replacing the N900... Feb 12 08:52:38 and even then I'll have a spare somewhere... Feb 12 08:53:06 friggin extras-devel is causing havoc Feb 12 08:53:15 I was tempted to purchase another N900 but it seems like I'll have to purchase another one in the state of used form Feb 12 08:53:35 >hire ex microsoft executive Feb 12 08:53:45 >act surprised when he opens up a tie-in with microsoft Feb 12 08:55:17 you left out the bit in the middle where they ditch their stock Feb 12 08:55:18 and do what when he hired more microsoft employees? like that one whose going to be in charge of sales and what not in US? Feb 12 08:55:34 and the axing of N9 Feb 12 08:55:57 hmmm i just can plug my dev to a serial terminal, get a secure connection and reset my pair; Feb 12 08:56:18 thats what i need Feb 12 08:56:35 either spend your time hurting microsoft, or building a better alternative Feb 12 08:57:01 by doing the latter you do the former. Stick to the latter. Feb 12 08:57:10 doing the former is their play. Feb 12 08:57:32 but the former is fun Feb 12 08:57:47 hehe, night Feb 12 08:57:50 well i got to give doc|home some respect for that Feb 12 08:57:52 cheers Feb 12 09:00:05 however the former does work Feb 12 09:00:17 if done intelligently Feb 12 09:01:23 i will not discuss, find it gread Feb 12 09:02:22 you will notice, i'm still alive Feb 12 09:02:23 :) Feb 12 09:03:08 it works great; reset serial devices; or/and flush bootloader Feb 12 09:05:46 like gta02; ok... majabe some zombees will kick my head off; its ok Feb 12 09:08:12 ........ just forgot those devices in dc. Feb 12 09:09:46 prgrm: pahartik: (^M) sid is right, install the libvte patch and it's ok. See the ticket mentioned above, or http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Feb 12 09:10:44 im on it Feb 12 09:13:23 DocScrutinizer: Acknowledged Feb 12 09:14:15 * DocScrutinizer is watching chanel's PANIC-meter Feb 12 09:15:36 Morning, all Feb 12 09:20:32 moo Jaffa Feb 12 09:21:06 what a pita to do updates over gprs :( Feb 12 09:21:19 depends Feb 12 09:21:42 my GPRS 3G is waaay faster than my ADSL Feb 12 09:21:57 I suppose I could purge some apps that I don't use Feb 12 09:22:05 7.xMB vs 2MB Feb 12 09:22:21 ah - lucky you. I have plain old gprs Feb 12 09:22:43 can i install maemo on a asus mypal a626 pda device? Feb 12 09:22:48 now that sucks for sure Feb 12 09:23:10 travertin12: yes, but it won't run Feb 12 09:23:20 travertin12: sorry, of course not Feb 12 09:23:22 funny thank you Feb 12 09:23:41 DocScrutinizer: I'll ask my network company if they have 3G Feb 12 09:23:50 maemo isn't developed as an OS for other platforms unless you have the matching hardware to begin with Feb 12 09:24:18 DocScrutinizer: is 2G worth exploring? Feb 12 09:24:22 and maemo isn't FOSS to port it Feb 12 09:24:58 noodles900: depends what's your definition of "exploring" Feb 12 09:25:25 and maybe also definition of "worth" Feb 12 09:25:37 ;) Feb 12 09:25:52 EDGE is quite OK for many usecases Feb 12 09:26:03 * noodles900 calls customer service in Thai Feb 12 09:26:12 plus it's usually more battery friendly Feb 12 09:26:20 let's see.... Feb 12 09:26:40 ok I'll ask aboutedge too-tks Feb 12 09:27:09 EDGE would get you a 2.5 sign automatically if available, I guess Feb 12 09:28:01 noodles900: city? Feb 12 09:28:06 I get a 2 sign Feb 12 09:28:17 just outside Bangkok Feb 12 09:28:27 how much outside? Feb 12 09:28:39 province called Samut Prkarn Feb 12 09:28:44 1000m, or 5+km? Feb 12 09:28:48 town called Pak Nam Feb 12 09:28:51 my area only has 2g and 3/3.5g :< so i keep it in 2g mode for ssh us Feb 12 09:29:24 noodles900: odds are you only got 2G there Feb 12 09:29:32 DocScrutinizer: about 20kms Feb 12 09:29:41 3G only in huge towns Feb 12 09:30:05 way too far from Bankok's possibly fast 3G towers Feb 12 09:30:17 hmmm, so that's what I have now? Feb 12 09:31:15 does the system automatically put you on the best connection or is that a manual option? Feb 12 09:32:11 they only eats "power" - my scripts Feb 12 09:32:38 I only see GPRS-WAP1 in the list Feb 12 09:32:54 noodles900: http://www.mobileworldlive.com/maps/network.php?cid=264&cname=Thailand Feb 12 09:33:23 is that really going to show in this screen? Feb 12 09:34:07 * noodles900 clicks and makes coffee while waiting Feb 12 09:40:28 got the map and it's wrong atfirst glance ;) Feb 12 09:40:53 sorry I'm lost in http://www1.tot3g.net/Default.aspx - for the char font allone that doesn't even allow me to c&p here :-P Anyway they claim 3G-Nationwide:2011 in that friggin flash video Feb 12 09:40:55 I'll call cust.serv. ;) Feb 12 09:41:27 DocScrutinizer: they claim a lot of lies here ;) Feb 12 09:41:38 and according to http://www.mobileworldlive.com/maps/network.php?cid=264&cname=Thailand that's the only carrier offering 3G Feb 12 09:43:12 alas http://www.mobileworldlive.com/maps/network.php?cid=264&cname=Thailand also says "no coverage map available" for that carrier's 3G service Feb 12 09:44:54 DocScrutinizer: I presume if the coverage is available it'll show i the list of available internet connections? Feb 12 09:45:36 nope Feb 12 09:45:54 err wait Feb 12 09:46:14 you're talking about N900 settings-internetconnections ? Feb 12 09:46:24 yep Feb 12 09:46:53 there you need to configure the access point of your particular carrier manually Feb 12 09:46:56 it shows me all the wifis Feb 12 09:47:22 yeah, wifi. But GPRS is a different thing Feb 12 09:47:35 you need a SIM to do GPRS Feb 12 09:47:39 DocScrutinizer: ah - ok - but wifis don't need that Feb 12 09:48:02 good morning Feb 12 09:48:02 okidoki - back to customer service ;) Feb 12 09:48:25 there's exactly one GPRS connection in that list (has another roundish icon), and you can edit that Feb 12 09:49:43 so if your SIM isn't tot3g carrier, you are probably out of luck with 3G Feb 12 09:50:09 DocScrutinizer: can I not have more than one? Feb 12 09:50:15 my sim is Dtac Feb 12 09:50:19 usually not Feb 12 09:50:42 tot3G have crap coverage out in the provinces Feb 12 09:51:10 but they are the only carrier that says they have 3G in Thailand Feb 12 09:51:12 TOT PLC (TOT Mobile) Feb 12 09:51:25 http://www.mobileworldlive.com/maps/network.php?cid=264&cname=Thailand Feb 12 09:51:36 Hmm - need to look into that ;) Feb 12 09:51:38 the others all are 2G Feb 12 09:52:02 I'll call in at their shop tomorrow Feb 12 09:52:54 see what price the sim is and the other prmotions like free SMS and free call-a-friend Feb 12 09:54:56 I pay about 3US cents a minute to call any mobile in thailand ;) Feb 12 09:56:23 also ask if they got 3G at all, in Samut Prkarn Feb 12 09:56:35 yep Feb 12 09:56:53 but I doubt it Feb 12 09:57:01 how many residents living there? Feb 12 09:57:18 nfc Feb 12 09:57:29 it's a big town Feb 12 09:58:08 carriers are supporting hot spots first, like Bankok, then go down to lower customer density / km^2 areas Feb 12 09:58:40 generally speaking hugest town first, then 2nd in size, then 3rd Feb 12 09:59:28 fwiw - I notice that gprs dies when I get a phone call Feb 12 09:59:48 but wifi doesn't die Feb 12 10:00:19 yes, 2g can't keep IP and CS voice up at the same time Feb 12 10:00:21 it would be weird otherwise Feb 12 10:00:27 even though maemo has ahabit of spitting out the dummy if there's too much going on Feb 12 10:00:49 dm8tbr: well, with a compliant carrier the data would just pause Feb 12 10:01:12 kerio: it is onlypaused and resumes ok Feb 12 10:01:29 oh, good Feb 12 10:01:32 then you have a good carrier Feb 12 10:02:38 anyone found a way to change sim cards without shutting down? Feb 12 10:02:50 actually class A GPRS allows simultaneous data and voice Feb 12 10:02:59 but no carrier actually implemented that Feb 12 10:03:04 * noodles900 really wished the n900 was dualsim Feb 12 10:03:29 most phones you have to shutdown to swap sims Feb 12 10:03:58 solution a dual sim which supports programming on the go and a phone that supports it Feb 12 10:04:00 :( Feb 12 10:04:32 dm8tbr: ( 2g can't keep IP and CS voice up at the same time) that's incorrect. With proper support from carrier BTS the N900 actually *can* do calls and data same time, on 2G Feb 12 10:04:49 umm, see Arkenoi ^^^ Feb 12 10:04:51 thanks for the help guys, DocScrutinizer kerio et al. off now... Feb 12 10:05:15 noodles900: http://www.i-bkk.com/ilocation/viewer/ Feb 12 10:05:25 http://www1.tot3g.net/Default.aspx Feb 12 10:07:19 DocScrutinizer: yeah, well, just nobody supports it :) Feb 12 10:07:32 are you sure? :-D Feb 12 10:08:42 some carriers here in Europe are really good with implementing / supporting techical stuff Feb 12 10:08:55 just their customer service is abyssmal Feb 12 10:11:11 DocScrutinizer: elisa/saunalahti is one of them and I didn't notice so far that they'd have implemented that Feb 12 10:11:23 CBA to test it now, but I'd assume O2 Germany has support for GPRS class A Feb 12 10:12:48 never seen it actually working, despite e90 was class A terminal Feb 12 10:13:11 saunalahti seems to be really silly about they GPRS. For example I heard they don't bother to NAT/filter inbound traffic, thus I can deplete your battery with a simple nmap attack Feb 12 10:13:45 DocScrutinizer: haven't checked in a while, but I thought they did Feb 12 10:14:06 DocScrutinizer: on the other hand, public IP Feb 12 10:14:13 DocScrutinizer, you can do that through NAT with a viral youtube video attack Feb 12 10:14:28 vulnerability in the human brain to moving pictures of cute kittens Feb 12 10:14:29 meh, that's not the same Feb 12 10:14:35 yeah, that's much better Feb 12 10:14:40 a lot more kittens Feb 12 10:14:41 :3 Feb 12 10:14:59 I can install a blocker for that :-P Feb 12 10:15:08 not for the missing NAT though Feb 12 10:15:28 hmm at least I seem to be able to ssh in :) Feb 12 10:16:10 that's a plus for ssh, a huge minus for battery standby time :-/ Feb 12 10:16:37 would need to check how much crud I see incoming, yeah Feb 12 10:16:52 * DocScrutinizer takes mental note to nmap the N900, to make sure there are no backdoors Feb 12 10:17:01 DocScrutinizer: well we clearly need nuclear batteries Feb 12 10:17:26 or two APNs Feb 12 10:17:46 though given that I have email, IM, etc, etc my battery doesn't live long anyway Feb 12 10:17:49 what we need are SNMP/UPnP capable NATs at carrier site Feb 12 10:17:51 nat.saunalahti and open.saunalahti Feb 12 10:18:01 DocScrutinizer: what we need is ipv6 Feb 12 10:18:10 dm8tbr: how's that relevant here Feb 12 10:18:29 NAT is not a solution Feb 12 10:18:46 meh Feb 12 10:18:46 you *want* NAT for your mobile devices Feb 12 10:18:55 * dm8tbr doesn't want NAT, ever Feb 12 10:19:01 because otherwise i can just ping your device and drain your battery Feb 12 10:19:14 even better, i can ping your device once every 10 seconds Feb 12 10:19:15 kerio: you mistake NAT for a firewall, it's not Feb 12 10:19:18 so the data starts and stops Feb 12 10:19:32 oh ok, give me a configurable firewall at carrier level then Feb 12 10:19:32 10s is too frequent for the SL timers Feb 12 10:19:33 http://twitter.com/#!/RovioMobile/status/35984875131510784 hah Feb 12 10:19:48 dtnope, you mistake firewall for sessions in a NAT Feb 12 10:20:19 of course a good SPI firewall can handle sessions as well Feb 12 10:20:25 xchat on the n900 sucks, I always close it by accident :/ Feb 12 10:20:28 MohammadAG: nokia is done Feb 12 10:20:38 kerio, yep Feb 12 10:20:40 and you don't need the address translation of a NAT Feb 12 10:20:54 what you need however are the sessions Feb 12 10:21:04 imho Feb 12 10:21:11 they should just release the N9 Feb 12 10:21:19 without an OS Feb 12 10:21:38 MohammadAG: ack Feb 12 10:21:38 or with an early build of MeeGo Feb 12 10:21:45 heh, aava would be pissed Feb 12 10:21:48 after all, it'll be buggy at release Feb 12 10:22:02 DocScrutinizer: RST Feb 12 10:22:06 Aava can f itself, or lower the price from $2k Feb 12 10:24:08 merlin_phone: never happened here Feb 12 10:24:36 i see Nokia stock continued to dive today. Feb 12 10:24:50 merlin_phone: maybe your config sucks? there's a second level requester "really close xchat?" here Feb 12 10:24:56 alterego, who said it was going to stop? Feb 12 10:25:09 alterego: ASK? Feb 12 10:25:23 I even had a bet that it won't rise up, till at least one week Feb 12 10:25:40 MohammadAG, the way to make that bet official is called "shorting" :) Feb 12 10:25:44 I bet it's rising Monday the latest Feb 12 10:26:16 I'll lose my virtual 50k bucks otherwise :-P Feb 12 10:26:32 I'm just wondering Feb 12 10:26:44 didn't somebody at Nokia have a little Feb 12 10:26:49 just a small urge Feb 12 10:26:55 to say this idea wasn't good? Feb 12 10:27:30 DocScrutinizer, I'll lose 3k if stocks rise up monday Feb 12 10:27:39 and they're not virtual :P Feb 12 10:27:46 MohammadAG, 1500 people who walked out of work early on Friday Feb 12 10:28:03 johnx, I'm talking about boards and such Feb 12 10:28:05 MUHAHA dives??? yesterday I ASKed at 7.01, today it's at 7.10 Feb 12 10:29:09 MohammadAG: see /topic ! Feb 12 10:29:20 DocScrutinizer, any ideas how I could fix a headset? Feb 12 10:29:29 hammer? Feb 12 10:29:29 the right earpiece isn't working Feb 12 10:29:43 no seriously Feb 12 10:30:01 short the cable, usually it's broken next to plug Feb 12 10:30:18 no, it's the earpiece Feb 12 10:30:21 I found the cables exposed Feb 12 10:30:25 screwit Feb 12 10:30:43 can't fix transducers Feb 12 10:30:43 there are two cables, but they aren't broken Feb 12 10:32:22 unless you want to redo that coil wound from wire thin like a hair Feb 12 10:32:58 nah, you can *not* Feb 12 10:33:09 not even on 20" bass speakers Feb 12 10:33:49 apparently elop is the seventh largest owner of microsoft stock and he has no nokia stock at all... that tells everything really Feb 12 10:34:01 there *are* guys that can fix 20", but I've never heard anybody fixing a headset transducer Feb 12 10:35:21 Trewas, Not defending the guy, or his choices, but it's entirely possible that's merely related to stock options / not having vested at Nokia yet Feb 12 10:36:07 monday breaking news: >>Elop arrested for betrayal of employer. Contract with M$ illegal and void. Nokia shares recover quickly<< Feb 12 10:37:11 DocScrutinizer, Tuesday: 2011 is declared "Year of Linux on the desktop" Feb 12 10:37:53 aah and of course: >>EU opens another case against M$, attorney talking about $5B fine" Feb 12 10:38:02 Wednesday- nokia announces new way forward. A UI based on Duke Nukem Forever, running on Hurd. Feb 12 10:38:10 the board of management must have known of the plans, so it's not like elop is the only one to blame :( Feb 12 10:38:27 SpeedEvil: \o/ :-D Feb 12 10:39:24 Finns should ask their neighbours, about Kaupthing bank Feb 12 10:39:35 that's iceland Feb 12 10:40:05 so that's no a neighbour of Finland? Feb 12 10:40:48 Hm, speaking of WP7, I heard that recently Microsoft talked with Geohot of the PS3 fame. Feb 12 10:40:48 maybe in some sense of the word, though almost all of the mainland europe is closer :) Feb 12 10:41:06 And might start being friendly(somewhat) to homebrew. If that's the case... Feb 12 10:41:42 RobbieThe1st: 'How can we secure our phones better'. Feb 12 10:41:56 I honestly seriously give no flying F on what friendly attitude M$ might pretend Feb 12 10:41:59 RobbieThe1st: 'Tell us, and we'll buy you all the PS3s and locked google devices you want'. Feb 12 10:42:45 I figure it comes down to this: If Microsoft goes the way of the PS3, the platform will fail. If it has a "dev switch" or other hacker/homebrew friendly feature... it -might- work out Feb 12 10:43:06 Personally, I won't buy it either way; I won't buy a phone without a *nix terminal with root Feb 12 10:43:14 meh Feb 12 10:43:44 Heck, if my -router- has that, my phone cirtainly ought to Feb 12 10:43:49 might be right technically, but seriously who cares? for sure not Mr DevelopersDevelopersDevelopersDevelopers Feb 12 10:43:59 I have this feeling that we're not a target demographic that almost anyone cares about Feb 12 10:45:52 johnx: Sure, probably. Someone will make something to cater to us, though. Feb 12 10:46:05 I mean, look at the OpenMoko people. Feb 12 10:46:35 And Nokia with the N900, and before that there was the Sharp Zaurus (not a phone admittedly) Feb 12 10:47:41 sid: what did you meant? or it will work? Feb 12 10:47:48 apparently palm is making some linux devices, though they don't sell them (here at least) Feb 12 10:49:13 linux with a very nice closed source UI, and not running the normal linux-y userland stuff. This is an issue for some people, and not for others Feb 12 10:50:56 RobbieThe1st: OM happened because a guy had a vision, and the ability to raise a moderate amount of cash. It was a failure. Feb 12 10:51:33 The Sharp Zaurus as well was something of a failure in the US and EU, though it had some success in Japan Feb 12 10:51:38 Eh, failure? The site's still up Feb 12 10:54:48 alterego, ping Feb 12 11:03:22 OM as an idea wasnt a failure Feb 12 11:03:33 OM as a piece of hardware was a failure Feb 12 11:04:49 and thats because OM was too small to be able to get access to the hardware it needed to be anything like competitive Feb 12 11:04:55 e.g. a decent cellular modem Feb 12 11:04:56 jonwil: No. Feb 12 11:05:07 jonwil: OM as a company was a failure. Feb 12 11:05:24 jonwil: The neo1973 was a saleable product - with some minor tweaks. Feb 12 11:05:52 It had a software stack which made calls, and could access the internet, did SMS, though needed polishing in may 2007. Feb 12 11:05:55 OM = OpenMoko? Feb 12 11:06:05 It was quite possible to get it saleable for Xmas 2007. Feb 12 11:06:16 well, hardware was still a failure Feb 12 11:06:24 But managment decided they wanted it shiny, and switched windowing systems several times. Feb 12 11:06:26 and afaik power management is still not existing Feb 12 11:06:28 Nokia's switch summoned abill_uk back Feb 12 11:07:13 jacekowski: Power managment was not an insupportable problem. The battery life wasn't great - 12h or so when I was using it - there were easy wins at that time that were not done. Feb 12 11:07:31 I still think the cellular modem that they used in the FreeRunner was no good Feb 12 11:07:39 plus the thing looked so damn ugly IMO Feb 12 11:08:05 jacekowski: Hardware was not compelling by todays standards. In xmas 2007, a GTK/X open stack, with a saleable phone would have been a much less niche product than the first run of the neo1973 was. Feb 12 11:08:52 jonwil: I'm not disagreeing. I'm saying that OM failed not because of the hardware, but because of the managment - not get out fast enough with good enough hardware, but delay 18 months wanting 'perfect' hardware Feb 12 11:09:14 jonwil: that modem is used in lots of other phones Feb 12 11:09:15 And software. Feb 12 11:09:23 The modem is good - it's just 2G. Feb 12 11:09:59 (and incidentally, the modem can now be rooted, allowing for all sorts of fun stuff.) Feb 12 11:10:28 Like using arbitrary numbers of software SIMs. (one at a time) Feb 12 11:10:53 (you need a OS base-station to help you extract the keys) Feb 12 11:11:10 (And the above hasn't actually been coded by anyone) Feb 12 11:12:33 i'm just wondering if you can make one off for less than 1k Feb 12 11:12:53 It depends. Feb 12 11:12:59 ignoring all developemtn costs Feb 12 11:13:01 just manufacturing Feb 12 11:13:41 If you don't count the skilled time of anyone, and don't overly care about size, and get it right second time - maybe just. Feb 12 11:14:18 This however assumes that you can stuff a mobile phone PCB by hand. Feb 12 11:14:23 This is quite challenging. Feb 12 11:15:26 * slonopotamus fails to understand why nokia didn't simply roll out more maemo5 devices Feb 12 11:15:45 The OLPC guys had big problems finding an ARM SOC for their ARM-based device too IIRC Feb 12 11:16:06 slonopotamus: See above OM reasoning. Feb 12 11:16:16 slonopotamus: They want it shiny, and they want it perfect. Feb 12 11:16:31 slonopotamus: nokia looks frozen to me Feb 12 11:17:16 slonopotamus: why would they, after announcing the move to meego there was no point making more dead devices Feb 12 11:17:21 SpeedEvil: maemo5 is good enough to make several more devices on it Feb 12 11:17:30 s/ on / with / Feb 12 11:17:31 slonopotamus meant: SpeedEvil: maemo5 is good enough to make several more devices with it Feb 12 11:17:36 slonopotamus: I don't disagree. Feb 12 11:18:01 slonopotamus: I personally would strongly consider buying a new compelling maemo 5 device tomorrow. Feb 12 11:18:08 With some caveats. Feb 12 11:18:30 because they kept changing direction instead of going forwards Feb 12 11:18:43 mavhc: OM or Nokia? Feb 12 11:18:53 both Feb 12 11:19:24 I find it a bit amusing that OM and maemo/meego both died after trying to go to Qt. Feb 12 11:19:31 and i don't understand what is so terribly bad with maemo5 that it was thrown away in favor of meego. Feb 12 11:19:45 It wasnt that maemo5 was bad, it was that they signed on with Intel Feb 12 11:19:59 To be fair - from the POV of managment - the arguments probably looked good. Feb 12 11:20:21 A broad based platform is a huge asset when taking on apple/android. Feb 12 11:20:27 who else is in on meego now? is there a risk its direction could move away from ARM? Feb 12 11:20:31 Rather than a single sourced nokia only one. Feb 12 11:20:34 SpeedEvil: whole platform was gtk Feb 12 11:20:39 jonwil: woont the partnership a start to support atom on nokia (for windows) , meego was just for proof of concept Feb 12 11:20:40 jacekowski: ? Feb 12 11:20:46 MohammadAG: ? Feb 12 11:20:53 heh Feb 12 11:20:55 SpeedEvil: well, whole platform was gtk and changing toolkit is a major thing Feb 12 11:21:07 All I care about is being abke to get the features I want on my N900 Feb 12 11:21:10 like cell broadcast Feb 12 11:21:27 jacekowski: one needs a strong reason to change gui toolkit Feb 12 11:21:29 This makes a lot of sense - it's just that managment diddn't put the resources into meego / diddn't realise how far it was from production. Feb 12 11:21:29 alterego, since I'm back on the mediaplayer, I'm wondering, should I open a new QMainWindow in a different class or in a method? Feb 12 11:21:40 jacekowski: OM you mean? Feb 12 11:21:49 nah Feb 12 11:21:50 maemo Feb 12 11:22:03 jacekowski: Sorry - confusing similar fail. :/ Feb 12 11:22:05 MohammadAG: not sure what you mean, Feb 12 11:23:28 alterego, I mean, should I start a new class for each QMainWindow, or can I open two QMainWindows from the same class, just wondering which is better code practice Feb 12 11:23:56 Hrm, well, if it's a different kind of window, I'd do a new class. Feb 12 11:37:36 apt: i liked your previous nickname more. Feb 12 11:37:36 You liked your previous nickname more.? Feb 12 11:38:16 As long as there are community members willing to work on improving their devices (and a community SSU as a way of getting the fixes out there for users to use, Maemo will never truely die Feb 12 11:38:56 And if the community cares enough about it, meego-on-n900 wont die either Feb 12 11:39:19 I note that even SHR on OM is improving - somewhat. Feb 12 11:39:30 n900 has a much, much larger installed base. Feb 12 11:40:12 I think that there is room for small companies to make us as niche users happy Feb 12 11:40:32 i was reading a review of the N8 and the guy seemed to think the N900 was much better. Feb 12 11:41:45 alterego: MohammadAG agress too Feb 12 11:42:16 Yeah Feb 12 11:42:32 Aava should start mass producting their phones with qwerty keyboards Feb 12 11:43:54 No they shouldn't Feb 12 11:44:05 No one wants an intel handset right now. Feb 12 11:44:20 only the N8's camera makes me want it Feb 12 11:44:36 (I've barely used HDMI out or OTG tbh, and OTG fails on Symbian) Feb 12 11:44:37 megapixels don't make a good camera Feb 12 11:44:51 MaikB: You need to - for a n900 class phone - do a run of at least 10-20K before you can think of making any profit. Feb 12 11:45:06 i'm looking forward to having optical zoom :-P Feb 12 11:45:23 MaikB: Maybe a little less, but not much less. Feb 12 11:45:38 MaikB: And that means several million dollars investment. Feb 12 11:45:42 Well. Moo. How is suffering today? Feb 12 11:45:52 chadi, the lens is good Feb 12 11:46:08 RST38h: New direction for nokia was announced, it's not W7. It's DNF on Hurd. Feb 12 11:46:12 alterego, anyway, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=943829&postcount=7 Feb 12 11:46:22 MohammadAG: how well does it take night shots? Feb 12 11:46:35 chadi, too well, it has a xenon flash too Feb 12 11:46:55 though it fails for night video I guess (no dual LED) Feb 12 11:47:03 SpeedEvil, yeah, I know. But I'm willing to pay 800 for a normaly 500 piece of hardware if I get something like maemo Feb 12 11:47:07 I think there is a market Feb 12 11:47:14 its small, yes, but its there Feb 12 11:47:36 MohammadAG: great, hope we have one on a meego device then :-) Feb 12 11:47:39 MaikB: But are >5000 other people? And can you convince a venture capitalist of that? Feb 12 11:47:40 it takes a small but commited and high skilled dude in a room Feb 12 11:47:43 Speed: You mean "HUrd" as in "former HP CEO"? Feb 12 11:47:46 MaikB: No, it doesn't. Feb 12 11:47:55 chadi, I'd like dual LED and Xenon tbh Feb 12 11:48:07 MaikB: A phone isn't really something one person can design. Feb 12 11:48:08 what's the difference? Feb 12 11:48:08 gtk, no, qt. tablet, no, phone, no tablet, arm, no, intel. just make up your mind and stick with it Feb 12 11:48:18 MaikB: At least - if they try - it will be very slow. Feb 12 11:48:18 SpeedEvil, maybe its just wishful thinking Feb 12 11:48:39 MaikB: It can be done - look at OpenMoko. But it has problems. Look at OpenMoko. Feb 12 11:48:45 SpeedEvil, but I hope for a modified android phone with some additional drivesrs and non android tax Feb 12 11:48:49 is that reasonable? Feb 12 11:49:00 SpeedEvil, OpenMoko wanted to be pure Feb 12 11:49:03 why no android? Feb 12 11:49:04 MaikB: Perhaps - if you can convince a vendor to sell you one. Feb 12 11:49:11 SpeedEvil, indeed Feb 12 11:49:18 I just hope it will happen Feb 12 11:49:25 once my N900 died Feb 12 11:49:37 one day we'll have 3d printers to make our own phones Feb 12 11:49:42 We can always hope that the meego phone will be good. Feb 12 11:49:46 mavhc: We really won't. Feb 12 11:49:50 SpeedEvil, I agree that openmoko didnt work out well enough to be an opttion Feb 12 11:49:51 mavhc: The case is the easy part. Feb 12 11:50:07 mavhc: You're not putting a silicon fab on a desktop any time soon. Feb 12 11:50:14 (well, other than toy demo fabs) Feb 12 11:50:58 Fabs cost well over a billion dollars each, and don't fit on your average desk. Feb 12 11:51:04 SpeedEvil, maybe it takes another 10 years until its possible to do community hardware Feb 12 11:51:07 at least Feb 12 11:51:21 the problem is that, as you said, it takes shitloads of money to do hardware Feb 12 11:51:31 as opposed to software Feb 12 11:51:34 one day as in 10-20 years Feb 12 11:52:13 just buy in the silicon Feb 12 11:52:27 I'm hopeful though that hackers all over the world do want to run their favorite OS on their phone Feb 12 11:52:28 eventually everything becomes a commodity part Feb 12 11:52:54 and maybe another crazy rich person comes around and creates a ubuntu equivalent Feb 12 11:53:04 :P Feb 12 11:53:32 MohammadAG: I just googled the difference, and yeah indeed the xenon flash looks far better! But why do you want both? Feb 12 11:53:40 I'm happy I bought the N900 Feb 12 11:53:46 MaikB: Hardware can be easy. Feb 12 11:53:57 MaikB: OMs problem was not really the hardware, it was the software. Feb 12 11:54:09 and actually I hope that a fairly good meego phone with a good kernel and drivers to start building on Feb 12 11:54:42 We can always hope that the meego phone released will be good. Feb 12 11:54:53 Giving us at least an extension of the deadline. Feb 12 11:55:00 SpeedEvil, well, Nokia just wasn't commited enough to make maemo/meego work Feb 12 11:55:18 Thats my opinion Feb 12 11:55:59 Their strategy up to shortly after the n900 was launched was not unreasonable. Feb 12 11:56:12 Then it seemred to tail off. Feb 12 11:56:33 I suspect talks with intel were happening, which lead to a slackning of 'wasted' effort. Feb 12 11:56:34 i.e. to make start apps they would have needed to review the elf binary loader for performance bottlencks etc. Feb 12 11:57:02 ? Feb 12 11:57:51 Optimizations to make loading binaries into the memory faster Feb 12 11:58:20 linux is fast at many places because there were billions spend to make it fast Feb 12 11:58:35 I just doubt that nokia was commited to make it happen in the mobile space Feb 12 11:58:44 they hoped it just works good enough Feb 12 11:59:13 That's an assumption ofc Feb 12 12:01:11 ciao a tutti Feb 12 12:01:23 hi to all Feb 12 12:04:09 chadi, cause you can't use a xenon flash as a flashlight Feb 12 12:04:19 * jonwil wonders where this came from http://pastie.org/pastes/1150052 Feb 12 12:05:14 MohammadAG: yeah, i noticed, xenon is a real "flash", dual led is used as a flash Feb 12 12:05:16 MaikB: I don't personally see slow app load time as a huge issue - it's a minor polish thing. Feb 12 12:25:07 is git in extras? Feb 12 12:25:25 hm nope Feb 12 12:27:54 wich one is the proper git package in devel again Feb 12 12:28:02 s//? Feb 12 12:29:40 Is git in -devel? Feb 12 12:29:47 I thought it was in tools ... Feb 12 12:31:41 alterego, yes it is Feb 12 12:31:47 there is git Feb 12 12:31:53 and git-core Feb 12 12:32:20 while git is an older version of git with a different maintainer Feb 12 12:33:40 meh, think I used juse 'git' Feb 12 12:33:51 which pulled in 'git-core' Feb 12 12:36:43 well http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/git/1.6.5.7-3/ vs http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/git-core/1.6.6-1maemo1/ Feb 12 12:37:08 and I see no depends git-core in the git package Feb 12 12:38:47 can someone do a ls -ln /home/user and tell me the numeric user and group id please? Feb 12 12:39:19 ooh, on a nokia n900. Feb 12 12:43:44 God this iPhone client is retarded Feb 12 12:44:23 lol Feb 12 12:45:17 iMohammadAG: missing irssi? how about installing ssh on it and then ssh into your pc and rebind the screen session? Feb 12 12:46:03 Just using meego on the n900 and I'm away from my pc Feb 12 12:46:25 dyndns ;) Feb 12 12:46:38 allows you to ping one computer of your choice in the world and connect to it Feb 12 12:46:53 just some small settings needed :) Feb 12 12:46:58 I have a static ip Feb 12 12:47:16 And I ahouldn't have said that Feb 12 12:47:45 hrhr, portscan incoming ;) Feb 12 12:48:30 22 23 29 1337 enjoy Feb 12 12:48:44 1337? wtf? Feb 12 12:49:13 Router xD Feb 12 12:49:40 Ah, MohammadAG has switched to the iPhone! Feb 12 12:50:33 iMohammadAG: never say if you have a static you have a static one :> Feb 12 12:50:51 merlin__phone: why just portscans? Feb 12 12:50:52 XD Feb 12 12:51:03 Crap xD Feb 12 12:52:07 brute forcing ssh is mean mikki-kun ;) Feb 12 12:53:00 Actually I just changed my root passwords Feb 12 12:53:15 They were root xD Feb 12 12:53:20 ohnoes, I just had it Feb 12 12:54:14 Hmm, iPhone autocorrect is annoying Feb 12 12:54:56 Noobs Feb 12 12:55:18 Grr it isn't autocorrected to boobs Feb 12 12:55:49 it doesn't react to ctcp version, gay Feb 12 12:56:57 Eek; huge fonts Feb 12 12:57:03 Heh Feb 12 12:57:16 It's a cheap ass client Feb 12 12:57:25 * jonwil just needs to find someone who has an "in" at nokia to try and push for the release of the stuff he needs for his projects :) Feb 12 12:57:37 I searched for irc and found a free version Feb 12 13:00:15 Is it feasible to use msn or whatever protocol from the os2008 chat app using gateways? Feb 12 13:03:36 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.window-managers.enlightenment.user/14360 raster about meego, Qt, Nokia, EFL, Samsung (*NOT* bada!) Feb 12 13:04:59 strange having a phone that has more capacity than a computer I was using t years ago. Feb 12 13:05:06 5 years ago .. Feb 12 13:12:37 alterego: you mean the n900? Feb 12 13:13:18 alterego: that's what tricks most devels. It has more CPU grunt, but for sure not more power (sic!). While your computer rsp laptop 5 years ago was designed to run for maybe 5h (if it's been a good one), this powerful little device needs to *run* for days and possibly weeks without recharging. This implies quite a number of fundamental considerations regarding kernel, general user space process (aka app et al) design, hardware drivers, and Feb 12 13:13:19 whatnot else. While Nokia understood about that when designing maemo, it's quite obvious that >>90% of developers @ meego never wrapped their head around it and just don't care Feb 12 13:17:58 I don't get it, if it takes Nokia another year for shipping the first WP7 device why not just ship it with MeeGo or Maemo5? Feb 12 13:18:18 imho, they it quite a good job with the N900 Feb 12 13:18:43 the only problem most people have with the N900 are the physical dimensions Feb 12 13:22:14 and lag Feb 12 13:22:36 nah, I got no problems with dimensions, I have problems with e.g. placement of 3G antenna, which is so brainfscked it constantly tears down 3G connection when I start holding the device for typing into hw kbd Feb 12 13:24:19 lag? what lag? Feb 12 13:24:40 Lag between maemo devices. :) Feb 12 13:24:49 yeah :-) Feb 12 13:25:16 though I tend to consider this a good thing usually Feb 12 13:25:51 gives the developers time to optimise every device to max Feb 12 13:25:52 it really lagy when open few conversations, ssh connection to box and web site par example Feb 12 13:26:04 too frequent product innovation cycles leave no room for any state of product to mature and stabilize Feb 12 13:26:15 mikki-kun: exactly Feb 12 13:26:38 Juozapas: hm, which website? Feb 12 13:26:45 doesnt matter Feb 12 13:26:56 it *does* matter Feb 12 13:27:13 it just takes some time to switch from conversation window to web or terminal Feb 12 13:27:14 i usually can multitask pretty decently, maybe cause i run most of my apps on my server via ssh Feb 12 13:27:35 Juozapas: you mean for you or the device? Feb 12 13:27:47 for device :D Feb 12 13:28:01 fsckng interweb nowadays is optimized for 2GB 2GHz machines with 2048*1280 and fibre optics network Feb 12 13:28:44 DocScrutinizer: fibre optics? then don't forget mentioning SSD and SATA 3 Feb 12 13:28:54 Juozapas: so that's clearly a problem of your web page using too much RAM, which makes the device get into swap hell Feb 12 13:29:31 and 2GB/2GHz?! you kidding me?! 1080p flash will surely kill that device... 3.5Ghz at least with 8 Gigs of RAM Feb 12 13:29:51 don't forget hw accelerating it Feb 12 13:29:55 with a dedicated chip Feb 12 13:29:57 ergo: website *does* matter. It just is unlikely to find a sane website nowadays that isn't bloated with flash shit cruft and js BS Feb 12 13:30:24 DocScrutinizer: might have been easily avoided by 512 MB ram :) but nokia didn't see the need for it as nobody will multitask... Feb 12 13:31:04 mikki-kun: nonsense. There was no OMAP PoP with 512 available at time of design Feb 12 13:31:12 DocScrutinizer: about:blank :) Feb 12 13:31:18 :-D Feb 12 13:31:18 PoP? Feb 12 13:31:22 Prince of Persia?! Feb 12 13:31:28 Package-on-Package Feb 12 13:31:58 the 256 is with the cpu in a single package? Feb 12 13:32:01 Doc: It is useless to argue with lemmings Feb 12 13:32:04 the OneNAND layer on top of the SOC Feb 12 13:32:23 Doc: They will continue advise Nokia on hardware/software decisions, no matter what Feb 12 13:32:23 iirc Feb 12 13:32:41 RST38h: ack Feb 12 13:32:57 DocScrutinizer: is there maybe a blueprint on how the omap is layed out? Feb 12 13:33:11 so far i assumed the 256 was on a seperate chip Feb 12 13:33:21 google for spruf98f.pdf Feb 12 13:33:36 DocScrutinizer: will do :) Feb 12 13:33:36 or simply visit ti.com Feb 12 13:33:40 mikki-kun: What do you mean layed out? Feb 12 13:33:57 SpeedEvil: PoP Feb 12 13:34:09 for example, aiui Feb 12 13:34:31 yeah. I saw mention of 512M RAM on omap-n900 Feb 12 13:34:48 but it was in a question on ti forums about undocumented POP vias Feb 12 13:35:40 mikki-kun: it is separate chip Feb 12 13:35:43 mikki-kun: on top of omap Feb 12 13:36:29 what VLC release, if any, would you recommend for my N810? one that worked with youtube would be lovely :P Feb 12 13:36:32 mikki-kun: you as well can pick yur schematics, check for location of D4800 (CPU) and D5000 (combo mem) and find they are both square O7 Feb 12 13:36:35 so theoretically switching the this 256 ram-chip to a 512 might have been possible then? Feb 12 13:36:57 which means D5000 sits piggyback on D4800 Feb 12 13:37:03 * RST38h suddenly notices that mikki-kun is already on his /ignore list Feb 12 13:37:09 Figures. Feb 12 13:38:25 wow... someone must have missed his yoga-class this morning... you can't expect from everybody to know everything... Feb 12 13:38:25 mikki-kun: theoretically, yes. Feb 12 13:38:29 mikki-kun: theoretically Feb 12 13:38:38 how do I override host verification? Feb 12 13:38:38 (ssh) Feb 12 13:38:53 MohammadAG: Edit your ~/.ssh/known_hosts Feb 12 13:39:04 SpeedEvil, override, not edit Feb 12 13:39:05 ssh -o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null -l root t900 Feb 12 13:39:20 SpeedEvil, I don't want to edit it every time I switch to MeeGo Feb 12 13:39:21 ty Feb 12 13:39:24 yw Feb 12 13:39:51 assword authentication is disabled to avoid man-in-the-middle attacks. Feb 12 13:39:57 Keyboard-interactive authentication is disabled to avoid man-in-the-middle attacks. Feb 12 13:39:57 o_O Feb 12 13:40:02 Copy Maemo keys to meego Feb 12 13:40:19 nevermind :) Feb 12 13:41:18 would starting a page on how to get an N810 in good shape for 2011 use (including non-standard packages from non-standard repositories and ugly things like that) be welcome on wiki.maemo.org? Feb 12 13:42:48 http://nexus404.com/Blog/2011/01/26/finnish-newspaper-reports-that-american-investors-forced-nokia-to-hire-stephen-elop-nokias-new-ceo-is-the-first-non-finn-in-the-companys-history-but-new-report-claims-that-nokias-hand-was-for/ Feb 12 13:43:43 LjL: extremely welcome Feb 12 13:45:13 investors, takeover scenarios, M$ evil plans (like always), - - MEH Feb 12 13:45:30 (no sarcasm!) Feb 12 13:47:36 ILLUMINATI (now that's been sarcastic) Feb 12 13:48:16 i can't see any sarcasm in your last statement... Feb 12 13:48:29 it seems like the bitter truth :( Feb 12 13:48:34 your sarcasm detector is broken mikki-kun Feb 12 13:49:56 it is having holidays... weekend started some hours ago Feb 12 13:51:23 Doc: There is an interesting detail about Elop Feb 12 13:51:40 Microkia is just next step to get The New World Order! :D Feb 12 13:51:41 Doc: Apparently, Elop has done a lot fo the open source ecosystem Feb 12 13:52:05 Doc: He was let go from Microsoft after heading the MS Office division and completely fucking up MS Office franchise Feb 12 13:52:15 With...hmmmhm...RIBBONS :) Feb 12 13:52:53 MUHAHA Feb 12 13:53:15 X-Fade, (or anyone): if I push multiple packages to autobuilder without waiting for it to finish, as long as sequentially done, the dependencies will resolve correctly I gather? Feb 12 13:53:30 ie, new library first, then app that depends on it Feb 12 13:53:34 well, I heard somebody ranting about Elop being 7th biggest stakeholder of M$ (or sth like that) Feb 12 13:53:36 lcuk: Most likely answer is no, sorry Feb 12 13:53:49 Doc:Should be easy to check Feb 12 13:54:31 while he doesn't own any share of Nokia, nor is loyal to Nokia in any other confirmable way Feb 12 13:54:35 LjL: That sounds like an excellent project to coordinate via wiki.maemo.org Feb 12 13:54:58 Steven Anthony Ballmer has been selling MS stock like crazy yesterday Feb 12 13:55:30 Wait, I am wrong, missed the correct line Feb 12 13:55:34 RST38h: url? Feb 12 13:55:35 lcuk: consider parallel processes Feb 12 13:56:13 William H Gates has sold $416mil in MS stock form Feb 2 to Feb 4 Feb 12 13:56:36 Make your own conclusions :) Feb 12 13:56:50 who *bought* NOK yesterday? Feb 12 13:58:06 Doc: Does not look like Elop holds that much, unless Yahoo Finance misses some information (it well may) Feb 12 13:59:39 For Nokia: No insider transactions in the 1 year period. Feb 12 13:59:48 finnish media reported those details today (elop being 7th largest personal owner of ms stock and owning no nokia stock), no idea if that is accurate info Feb 12 13:59:57 RST38h: 7th biggest *private* (is that correct wording in english? individual? ;]) shareholder Feb 12 14:00:08 Trewas: Yahoo only reports on 5 biggest shareholders Feb 12 14:00:14 Trewas: Elop is not among them Feb 12 14:02:08 I'd not feel surprised to learn Elop *still* gets his monthly check from Balmer Feb 12 14:02:38 http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=MSFT+Major+Holders Feb 12 14:03:25 and you quite probably couldn't even prosecute him anywhere in EU, as he's Canadian and won't come here once he left direction US or Canada Feb 12 14:03:27 Looks like Gates has just sold 40%+ of his Microsoft stock Feb 12 14:03:59 the nokia-ms merger should be good news for microsoft, no risk and quite a lot of potential benefits to windows mobile Feb 12 14:04:07 $416m sold, $580m reported 3 days after the sale Feb 12 14:04:39 MSFT is still down yesterday, but of cause less so than NOK Feb 12 14:05:21 http://biz.yahoo.com/t/38/567.html Feb 12 14:06:06 yes, it is the same data I amlooking at Feb 12 14:07:02 It is far too nice out for this Saturday. Feb 12 14:08:02 * RST38h looks out: -11oC, snow flurries, the light is mostly off Feb 12 14:08:19 Well...mmm...dunno... Feb 12 14:08:56 RST38h, oh, sorry, you live in hell. Feb 12 14:09:18 Nah, just a temporary interruption in weather service. Feb 12 14:09:27 nice : http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=NOK&t=5d&l=on&z=l&q=l&c= Feb 12 14:09:36 The Tentacled One is repairing the sky. Feb 12 14:10:28 :-D Feb 12 14:10:40 Doc: looks like a trajectory of a wounded hog Feb 12 14:10:53 hehehe Feb 12 14:11:44 Still, it does not make sense to analyse it now. Wait for at least a month or so... Feb 12 14:12:06 wait til monday evening Feb 12 14:12:15 that too should be fun Feb 12 14:12:22 What a bunch of idiots. Feb 12 14:12:30 makes sense if you want to make money ;) Feb 12 14:12:31 who? Feb 12 14:12:32 Which bunch? Feb 12 14:12:36 Nothing good is going to come for Nokia from this. Feb 12 14:12:56 umm, yup Feb 12 14:12:59 What sort of fools are on that board Feb 12 14:13:14 GAN900: they will survive - which was not certain Feb 12 14:13:19 same sort that's found on every board Feb 12 14:13:28 (council excluded :-D ) Feb 12 14:13:38 the real question is in what shape they will survive Feb 12 14:13:57 that they could both get themselves in a situation which required answers like this and CONSIDER this idiocy. Feb 12 14:14:12 or, if you are an investor, where will their stockstabilize Feb 12 14:14:20 they will survive building mice for M$, and rubber boots for the world Feb 12 14:14:21 Probably going to end up as Microsoft's manufacturing arm. Feb 12 14:14:33 One possibility, yes Feb 12 14:14:39 MS know diddly-squat about hardware and Nokia have lost their way but can make excellent hardware. Feb 12 14:14:46 Or pillaged for patents by MS Feb 12 14:15:01 noodles: Have you seen the latest hw fromnokia? Feb 12 14:15:04 apple will be worried Feb 12 14:15:15 noodles: Have you talked to a guy in the service center? I have. Feb 12 14:15:31 microsoft does know about hardware :/ Feb 12 14:15:43 not really Feb 12 14:15:49 True, the scarce hardware MS made,they made mostly right Feb 12 14:15:49 that microsoft sidewinder force feedback 2 here is the best thing microsoft did, ever Feb 12 14:15:57 RST38h: most receng is n900 but i know a guy in nokia Feb 12 14:15:59 * maybeHere cuddles Feb 12 14:16:27 the hardware "made by M$" usually just isn't Feb 12 14:16:28 noodles: The latest Symbian phones die all over the place Feb 12 14:16:55 Doc: Does not matter. They designed theirmice and keyboards. Yes, Zune was a relabelled Toshiba GIgabit, but not the rest Feb 12 14:17:07 RST38h: yea - I heard but seems to be software related Feb 12 14:17:26 noodles: does not matter, it is still atrip to the factory Feb 12 14:17:42 also, damaged LCDs and broken RFmodules are not sw related Feb 12 14:17:48 so I stand by what I said ;) Feb 12 14:19:01 my personal experience of nokia is since the mobile phones first came on the market Feb 12 14:19:20 please keep in mind Nokia also is a major player in carrier grade hardware (BTS etc), and holds quite a patent portfolio as well. I wonder if M$ gets their sticky fingers at that as well Feb 12 14:19:36 maybe 20 years ;) Feb 12 14:19:49 :( Feb 12 14:19:53 stupid ceo Feb 12 14:20:00 DocScrutinizer: Nokia might made a questionable decision yesterday but they are not suicidal :) Feb 12 14:20:01 DocScrutinizer: for sure MS are drooling :) Feb 12 14:20:11 chx: They are not? Really? Feb 12 14:20:39 MS do love patents .. Feb 12 14:20:42 what was the spat between nokia and Apple about? Feb 12 14:20:45 DocScrutinizer: did'nt they put all that stuff into their joint venture with siemens? Feb 12 14:20:49 didn't, even Feb 12 14:20:58 maybe yep Feb 12 14:21:21 I don't know enough about details to really comment on it Feb 12 14:21:54 it's a no-brainer to see wherethis is heading Feb 12 14:22:02 exactly Feb 12 14:22:24 just hard to know which stock they will let die ;) Feb 12 14:22:53 I hope they release a top notch device later this year for us .. Feb 12 14:22:57 The whole situation fills one with an impotent rage. Feb 12 14:22:59 investors (US investors!) forcing Elop into CEO position. Elop selling out Nokia to M$. Baler smiles Feb 12 14:23:05 ballmer Feb 12 14:23:41 DocScrutinizer: not sure how many legal hoopthey'd have to jump through Feb 12 14:23:43 GAN900: this image is what made me sick: http://wmpoweruser.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/image21.png Feb 12 14:23:48 alterego, that'll probably change to "actually, we're axing the whole division, we just didn't want to start riots in February" Feb 12 14:23:56 Heh Feb 12 14:24:03 Well, we'll know about it soon enough. Feb 12 14:24:18 What the hell device am I going to use in 6 months. . . . Feb 12 14:24:29 either way maemo amd meego will be cut adrift Feb 12 14:24:35 noodles900: that's why they not plainly buy out Nokia wholesale. They do it in a way so nobody can piss their leg Feb 12 14:24:37 One has an overwhelming desire to punch their smug faces. Feb 12 14:25:00 oh well, my n900 is still alive and kicking. who knows how it'll all look at the time it finally dies on me Feb 12 14:25:10 one finnish politician said that "Elop is not Canadian, he is Trojan" Feb 12 14:25:20 DocScrutinizer: exactly ;) They might be dumb, but they aren't crazy ;) Feb 12 14:25:31 Well, I have two N900s now, so I'm set for a while. Feb 12 14:25:36 I'd save the energy and get something like a lemon bazooka to shoot at them with.. frozen lemon of course Feb 12 14:25:46 And I love the device so much, I'd be happy to use it for another year or so. Feb 12 14:26:07 no point punching their faces with yer arm when you can save it all up with something like a fruit launcher Feb 12 14:26:08 haha Feb 12 14:26:19 Google is offering work for ex.Nokians who will get laid out Feb 12 14:26:28 maybeHere: yep. same here. And Samsung & Raster is a great promising team it seems Feb 12 14:26:29 yes that was nice. Feb 12 14:26:56 alterego: the hardware of tthe n900 is great apart from the usb socket, but the os closed bits are pants Feb 12 14:27:05 Aidan Biggins on twitter: Any Nokia software engineers need a job? We're hiring. Feb 12 14:27:36 noodles900: my usb is fine. Feb 12 14:27:41 And how is the software pants? Feb 12 14:27:49 cool :) good for google - they will pick up some useful heads Feb 12 14:28:20 Hahah Feb 12 14:28:26 alterego: the basic phone functions are better on mynokia 6310 Feb 12 14:28:47 Which functions in particular? Or are you talking about the lack of caller groups? Feb 12 14:28:53 Jartza: (he's Trojan) which, afair, is incorrect. Nokia acts like Trojans. Elop is the horse :-P Feb 12 14:29:16 that is one - but the list is long ;) Feb 12 14:29:18 i do have a serious problem with the N900: it's quite brick sized :( I still love my E51 better for a form factor. Feb 12 14:29:39 Phone functions are fine as far as I'm concerned tbh Feb 12 14:29:51 The size doesn't bother me either. Feb 12 14:29:56 DocScrutinizer: well yeah. some analogy-failure there :) Feb 12 14:30:09 For what it does and its' flexibility I'm happy with the size .. Feb 12 14:30:13 alterego: I carry the 6310 to make calls ;) Feb 12 14:30:33 Obviously, it'd be nicer if all these things were better/different, but it doesn't stop me from using it .. Feb 12 14:30:38 Google is Evil Feb 12 14:30:41 noodles900: why? Feb 12 14:30:49 GAN900: So is Nokia now :P Feb 12 14:31:08 alterego: don't misundrstand - I do love the n900 Feb 12 14:31:09 alterego, they're not an advertising company. Feb 12 14:31:14 Just a Borg drone. Feb 12 14:31:23 And drones are neither evil nor good. Feb 12 14:31:27 They're just drones. Feb 12 14:31:38 “Nokia expects 2011 and 2012 to be transition years” – that's OK because as you know, the smart phone market is evolving very slowly lately. Feb 12 14:31:42 Oh, you must have missed the "Adverts" part of the Nokia/Microsoft partner presentation slide. Feb 12 14:31:49 heh... some more puns in google's twitter Feb 12 14:31:58 alterego: too manyreasons to type on the n900 kbd ;) Feb 12 14:32:39 Yeah, I read that and laughed. By the time they've got WP devices out and "transition" is well under way. MeeGo will be mature, stable and awesome .. Feb 12 14:33:13 but will meego be totally opensource? Feb 12 14:33:19 People like, the guys that Nokia got from Palm, including that ace UX designer, their jobs are redundant now that Nokia are leaving all that BS to MS Feb 12 14:33:30 and will it run the n900? Feb 12 14:33:37 noodles900: MeeGo is totally open source. Feb 12 14:33:50 well, see my last rant about meego. IMHO it just never will be mature on handset UX Feb 12 14:33:55 Need to sue Nokia for emotional and financial damage. Feb 12 14:34:06 There are some closed components available to enable some hardware functionality, just like any other Linux system Feb 12 14:34:13 DocScrutinizer, yeah, I don't really get the full steam ahead comments Feb 12 14:34:17 alterego: cool - including drivers? Feb 12 14:34:21 DocScrutinizer: not with that attitude :P Feb 12 14:34:25 noodles900: no. Feb 12 14:34:31 Funny thing is, they're all coming for people who make money from MeeGo Feb 12 14:34:38 So they're not exactly unbiased. Feb 12 14:34:56 Market realities will set in when boards realize there's no point wasting time. Feb 12 14:35:01 Everybody still sticking to their initial feelings of yesterday? Feb 12 14:35:16 alterego: well, *my* attitude just is negligable. It's because ""their"" attitude is like it is, and doesn't bother about mine Feb 12 14:35:17 And waving the LF flag is just as silly. Feb 12 14:35:38 alterego, let's be realistic. Feb 12 14:35:43 DocScrutinizer: we need a viable open mobile linux platform for handsets. Feb 12 14:35:46 This is the mobile market Feb 12 14:35:48 MeeGo is the best out there imo Feb 12 14:36:00 we don't have generic hardware we can dump software on. Feb 12 14:36:08 At least it has the best backing and best momentum. Feb 12 14:36:10 but it should be generic hw Feb 12 14:36:10 We do Feb 12 14:36:18 GAN900: You have got pretty generic HTC hardware Feb 12 14:36:20 So without corporate backing from somebody making hardware, there's little point. Feb 12 14:36:21 GAN900: well, we kind of do with the N900 :P Feb 12 14:36:40 It'll never hit critical mass, there will never be enough developers, no ecosystem Feb 12 14:36:42 GAN900: In fact,as there is just a bunch of mobile SoCs, the generic hardware part has been mostly solved Feb 12 14:36:49 Nokia will continue to make MeeGo devices, I imagine just like we have had in the past through the NIT devices. (I hope) Feb 12 14:36:51 alterego, which is already 2 years out of date. Feb 12 14:36:52 So I assume everybody is still pissed off? Feb 12 14:36:55 And that is what they're saying .. Feb 12 14:37:12 GAN900: all of Nokia devices are 2 years out of date. Feb 12 14:37:13 If not more. Feb 12 14:37:21 This is their problem. _they're freaking slow_ Feb 12 14:37:35 bah! Feb 12 14:37:37 http://blog.qt.nokia.com/2011/02/12/nokia-new-strategic-direction-what-is-the-future-for-qt/ smells like optimisim Feb 12 14:37:51 alterego, slow is relative. Feb 12 14:37:53 (I don't mean megahertz, I mean Nokia as far as producing products is concerned) Feb 12 14:38:03 lcuk: sure :P Feb 12 14:38:16 I want a Cortex A15 now please :P Feb 12 14:38:17 NOW! Feb 12 14:38:42 * DrGrov hands alterego his precious Cortex A15 Feb 12 14:38:55 alterego, perhaps you could consider using a toolkit which actually makes the most out of what is available :P Feb 12 14:39:42 RST38h, so, what, we're going to hack the bootloader on every new Android device that comes out? Feb 12 14:39:59 lcuk: I'm not whining about hardware specs, GAN is :P Feb 12 14:40:29 GAN900, when android is also OSS, doesn't it seem odd to have to hack it? Feb 12 14:40:33 alterego, and when they all die because they're disposable mobile devices. Feb 12 14:40:48 You still haven't solved the ecosystem issue. Feb 12 14:41:03 lcuk, Android may be open source, but it aint Open Source. Feb 12 14:41:25 GAN900, ecosystem can thrive in MeeGo Feb 12 14:41:28 The open source is just to con otherwise intelligent people into expanding the Google empire. Feb 12 14:41:35 where WPN907 is out? Feb 12 14:41:35 lcuk, not without devices Feb 12 14:41:39 Not without customers. Feb 12 14:41:42 GAN900, it has devices Feb 12 14:41:51 just like Maemo :) Feb 12 14:42:03 my MeeGo ideapad is amazing Feb 12 14:42:21 it is the wall based big machine Feb 12 14:42:24 GAN: Yes! Feb 12 14:42:26 but I can carry it everywhere Feb 12 14:42:27 :) Feb 12 14:42:39 Will there be any MeeGo devices from Intel then? Feb 12 14:42:53 Your meego ideapad is a cheap chinese-made netbook, with underpowered cpu and cheesy design Feb 12 14:43:11 RST38h, by who's terms is it underpowered? Feb 12 14:43:11 Sorry, lcuk, someone had to violate that perfect world :) Feb 12 14:43:18 lcuk: By mine. Feb 12 14:43:32 I have been running happily on a 400mhz N810 for the last 4-5 years now Feb 12 14:43:46 you need to reevaluate then. Feb 12 14:43:47 But N810 is a pocketable tablet Feb 12 14:43:52 lcuk, big sky optimism doesn't pay anybody's bills. Feb 12 14:43:57 The ideapad is pretty much a laptop Feb 12 14:44:06 RST38h: I saw a chinese 'thinkpad' the other day. Feb 12 14:44:11 RST38h: with a trackpoint. Feb 12 14:44:16 And I have got a just a bit larger laptop with 1.2GHz Core i7 here Feb 12 14:44:23 RST38h, yes, and running it with max 1600mhz is a dream Feb 12 14:44:37 code runs flawlessly at 60fps Feb 12 14:44:44 what code? Feb 12 14:44:45 and gives a broad smile when its used Feb 12 14:45:05 Man, I know a lot of chemical substances that gove you a broad smile when used Feb 12 14:45:16 Some will even fix that smile permanently, on your corpse Feb 12 14:46:08 RST38h, so we should just accept that Open Source fails? Feb 12 14:46:09 A brick from Lenovo will not though Feb 12 14:46:44 lcuk: What open source? Feb 12 14:47:38 well, according to yesterday, ALL. Feb 12 14:48:40 RST38h, and if all we are given is bricks, then we shall build the highest tower. Feb 12 14:51:10 lcuk: I do not know what you mean by ALL Feb 12 14:52:01 lcuk: As far as I can tell, "yesterday" indicates that 1)Meego at Nokia is most likely dead 2) Meego in general is most likely not dead 3) None of this has anything to do with open source in general or your Lenovo netbook Feb 12 15:03:03 BCMM_, hey Feb 12 15:06:47 http://getsatisfaction.com/nokia/topics/petition_to_nokia_reconsider_meego_as_strategic_platform Feb 12 15:06:58 just in case somebody cares Feb 12 15:07:08 DocScrutinizer, I wonder what people would put on a postcard Feb 12 15:07:13 to Mr Elop Feb 12 15:07:18 ebola Feb 12 15:07:19 shit? Feb 12 15:07:28 lcuk: anthrax? Feb 12 15:07:28 ebola, yeah Feb 12 15:07:43 mikki-kun, sigh Feb 12 15:07:48 I meant a digital postcard actually Feb 12 15:08:05 digital ebola then Feb 12 15:08:07 :-P Feb 12 15:08:20 How about a killer virus? Feb 12 15:08:22 hm, that is just a counter going up... real postcards stack up and eventually will annoy you way more Feb 12 15:08:23 ZogG: g'day Feb 12 15:09:11 DocScrutinizer: Do you still feel the anger? Feb 12 15:09:29 we have zero clout alas Feb 12 15:09:30 meh, I'm mostly thru with it Feb 12 15:09:38 I recently formatted the eMMC card and the whole phone (n900), converted partition table etc. however, I have created the dirs /home/user/MyDocs/.sounds/Ringtones and /home/user/MyDocs/.images (-rw-r--r--, user, users), put some aac-ringtones and some png in corresponding folders. I can't find any ringtones nor images through standard programs! what could be wrong? Feb 12 15:09:45 yay, MyTube works! \o/ Feb 12 15:09:46 * lcuk once sent a postcard to Nokia with better hope http://liqbase.net/liq.20090831_025549.ctrlliqpostcard_intro1.scr.png Feb 12 15:09:58 just lingering here out of mere boredom Feb 12 15:10:04 we would need to make Keilalahdentie another Tahrir to make them listen :P Feb 12 15:10:05 my handwriting has gotten better since :) Feb 12 15:10:31 lcuk: You are absolutely adorable Feb 12 15:10:49 lcuk: Can I have you as a home pet? My soon-to-be-wife would take good care of you Feb 12 15:11:01 demute_: virtually everything Feb 12 15:11:09 you can happily have the software created :) Feb 12 15:11:16 lcuk: No, I want you! Feb 12 15:11:29 read liqbook, I am up for sale :) Feb 12 15:11:46 lcuk: My soon-to-be-wife insists that she gets a hold of you and takes good care of you in the form of a house pet Feb 12 15:11:48 Like a dog Feb 12 15:11:52 but hopefully in a way that helps everyone Feb 12 15:12:00 bah DrGrov Feb 12 15:12:05 lcuk: What now? Feb 12 15:12:08 I am a cat Feb 12 15:12:10 :) Feb 12 15:12:21 lcuk: Ok, my wifey can handle cats as well. Feb 12 15:12:33 LOL Feb 12 15:12:34 DocScrutinizer: please confirm that and I will reformat it :) Feb 12 15:12:35 lcuk: She has had 10 cats at once Feb 12 15:13:21 Doc: Do you seriously believe that petition will achieve anything? Feb 12 15:13:30 demute_: check trackerd Feb 12 15:13:38 RST38h: nah! Feb 12 15:13:43 DocScrutinizer: ok, thanks Feb 12 15:13:45 Doc: Won't a sacrifice of a goat or a calf to the Tentacled One have more effect? Feb 12 15:14:20 RST38h: for sure, I appreciate that ;-D Feb 12 15:15:38 can you come up with things that a user in 2011 would want from their N8x0 (that are attainable), for me to research and add to the wiki page i'm making? Feb 12 15:15:40 DrGrov, do you have pics of your wife? Feb 12 15:16:11 RST38h: we could place some new wikileaks stuff on Elop's laptop, then inform homeland security about it Feb 12 15:16:30 Doc: He is Canadian. Feb 12 15:16:30 DocScrutinizer: wow, that is an awesome idea Ö.ö Feb 12 15:16:32 lcuk: Why would you need pics of my wife? Feb 12 15:16:56 I bet he's using a win7 based laptop, probably open as this arse Feb 12 15:16:59 Doc: And if you really wanna head that particular route, insider trading is probably the best topic to develop Feb 12 15:17:40 DrGrov, I would like to know who is touching me :P Feb 12 15:17:41 RST38h: you need considerable amounts of spare money to set up that scenario Feb 12 15:18:16 well, my first move with Finnish nespaper was rather cheap ;-P Feb 12 15:18:28 BCMM_ i got funtoo on laptop =) Feb 12 15:18:41 ZogG: fun! Feb 12 15:19:17 BCMM_ yeah fun too :P Feb 12 15:19:19 lcuk: Yes of course, then I understand Feb 12 15:19:45 BCMM_ do you have qt-creator and maemo sdk on gentoo? Feb 12 15:19:58 ZogG: maemo SDK being scratchbox, right? Feb 12 15:19:59 RST38h: (Canadian) so what? don't you think they send a sniper for a Canadian as well as for an Aussie Feb 12 15:20:14 lcuk: I will put a link for you in a few sec Feb 12 15:20:19 haha ok Feb 12 15:20:20 :D Feb 12 15:20:20 i assume Feb 12 15:20:25 there si something in portage Feb 12 15:20:39 but it states for maemo3 so i do not sure how old is it Feb 12 15:20:47 DrGrov, do I add this to the groupies list? Feb 12 15:20:54 ZogG: i have scratchbox working, but i can't remember how right now Feb 12 15:21:06 ZogG: it does use some of the stuff from portage, but it took some tweaking Feb 12 15:21:10 lcuk: FUCK NO! Feb 12 15:21:19 lol Feb 12 15:21:21 BCMM_ just when i use qt-creator (used) on arch i had no way to emulate app as it would run on maemo Feb 12 15:21:21 lcuk: You just watch one sec and that is that Feb 12 15:21:27 ZogG: i like doing stuff properly, and it also means that i have appropriate init scripts and so on Feb 12 15:21:37 next step of operation: Nokia is developing evil secret sw technology that's aimed to attack M$ systems of US gvmt Feb 12 15:21:42 ok, but once its on the internet, theres no going back. Feb 12 15:22:10 BCMM_ it would be nice if you would share any instructions or ebuilds if you have =) Feb 12 15:22:15 lcuk: Read the fucking PM! Feb 12 15:22:36 the Elop plot was just for Nokia to gain access to M$ internals to optimize their weapon chamber Feb 12 15:22:44 ZogG: yeah, i've been meaning to write it up for ages Feb 12 15:22:51 ZogG: so long, in fact, that i've started to forget :( Feb 12 15:23:01 BCMM_ DO IT =( Feb 12 15:23:04 =)* Feb 12 15:23:30 ZogG: IIRC, i basically followed the instructions for installing on debian, but used equivalent stuff from portage Feb 12 15:23:43 ZogG: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/337028/ is my eix -cI scratch output Feb 12 15:24:39 lcuk: You bastard, I know you pasted that link already everywhere. Right? Feb 12 15:24:49 gah, where's the regular scratchbox installation instructions? Feb 12 15:25:22 DrGrov, no, I have merely admired your wife for a few seconds. time for you to go and smile at her for longer. Feb 12 15:25:49 lcuk: Oh, kind words. Feb 12 15:25:56 DrGrov: lcuk: please stop it, it's puzzling Feb 12 15:26:20 DocScrutinizer, it was DrGrov's idea Feb 12 15:26:25 DocScrutinizer: What, it is puzzling? Feb 12 15:26:29 he was the one that mentioned his wife Feb 12 15:27:05 I don't point fingers, I just ask to stop it before another ban hits for no reason Feb 12 15:27:14 (not by me!) Feb 12 15:27:20 Doc: Good chances are, he took care about setting it up himself =) Feb 12 15:27:21 Seriously Feb 12 15:27:25 Doc: Just need to dig :) Feb 12 15:27:27 Can not people take any fucking jokes anymore? Feb 12 15:27:36 No. Feb 12 15:27:40 Never could, too. Feb 12 15:28:04 RST38h: Well, I knew that somehow when talking about you. Not a coincidence but nevermind Feb 12 15:28:10 ZogG: follow this: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#On_x86_and_x86_64_Debian-based_systems but ignore the apt-get stuff and emerge these http://paste.pocoo.org/show/337028/ instead Feb 12 15:28:47 ZogG: oh, and i don't think you need to create the scratchbox group either - portage will do that for you Feb 12 15:28:58 DrGrov: jokes sometimes are problematic with 460 users, 70% of them no native speakers Feb 12 15:29:51 DocScrutinizer: Oh I understand. Just a nice way to cheer up a bit. Feb 12 15:29:55 ZogG: sbox group rather Feb 12 15:30:07 emerge that stuff, then see if it exists Feb 12 15:30:24 ZogG: my memory is a little vague, so can you let me know if that works so I can write it up properly? Feb 12 15:30:37 DocScrutinizer: Thought it might be a nice humor turn to the terrible news from yesterday. But sure, will not make any more funny jokes. Feb 12 15:31:39 BCMM_, thanks Feb 12 15:32:12 it would take sometime as i forgot usb network card at work for laptop and the builtin is broken as wifi =( Feb 12 15:32:26 ZogG: oh and note that you do not need dev-embedded/scratchbox-devkit-maemo3 - i'm guessing that's a way to avoid manually getting a rootstrap, that's out of date now anyway Feb 12 15:33:01 well, see what I mean? s/puzzling/bemusing/ Feb 12 15:34:35 it's no 20h into the past when one user deliberately admitted his irony detector is broken Feb 12 15:35:03 ZogG: oh, one more thing: you can get Xephyr by building x11-base/xorg-server with +kdrive, i think Feb 12 15:36:03 anyway, enjoy your weekend folks. I'm off for some RL Feb 12 15:38:30 Amazing Feb 12 15:39:01 The MeeGo list archives are giving me blank pages every other message and Modest only wants to show the last dozen. Feb 12 15:39:11 * DocScrutinizer heads off to next backbone excange station, with laptop and a pack of cables Feb 12 15:40:03 Thanks DocScrutinizer, enjoy the weekend yourself :) Feb 12 15:40:04 GAN900: it has begun Feb 12 15:40:59 TEH END. TEH DRAMA. Feb 12 15:44:59 * ShadowJK was sitting with his laptop plugged into a switch at the central exchange for the new fibre isp :) Feb 12 15:45:38 first time I've seen youtube 1080p download faster than realtime :( Feb 12 15:46:09 ShadowJK: What connection are you on? Feb 12 15:46:10 ShadowJK: can you please inject a few data packets into IBAN stream for me? Feb 12 15:46:47 For me the Youtube 1080p always downloads faster than realtime Feb 12 15:47:14 BCMM_, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33073&page=2 Feb 12 15:48:12 DocScrutinizer but internet is your RL Feb 12 15:48:32 * MohammadAG hates rpm Feb 12 15:48:32 can't figure out how to install a package using zypper :/ Feb 12 15:48:43 zypper --help? Feb 12 15:48:51 ZogG: you know the religion of aboriginees? Feb 12 15:49:03 we're all living in dreamtime Feb 12 15:49:15 MohammadAG as i set gmail i have both pop and imap - how do i get rid of one of them? Feb 12 15:49:16 ZogG, duh, that's not the problem :P Feb 12 15:49:22 it keeps saying the package doesn't exist Feb 12 15:49:29 DocScrutinizer you see you are still here Feb 12 15:49:31 YouTubes low quality stuff isn't even real time here. Feb 12 15:49:44 MohammadAG update/sync? Feb 12 15:50:10 ZogG: nah, somebody is dreaming you're thinking I'm still here. This never really happened Feb 12 15:50:37 ZogG, ??? Feb 12 15:50:56 DocScrutinizer, eh, iban? Feb 12 15:51:27 ZogG, I did Feb 12 15:51:50 http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.1/handset/repos/armv7l/packages/armv7l/ meegotouchcp-bluetooth-libmeegobluetooth exists Feb 12 15:52:02 MohammadAG i have inbox and i have allmail and google mail =) Feb 12 15:52:16 I added http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.1/handset/repos/armv7l/packages/ to /etc/zypp/repos.d/ Feb 12 15:52:27 ShadowJK: sorry, SWIFT Feb 12 15:52:44 eh Feb 12 15:52:46 MohammadAG as well why would all mail displayed and not X per page? Feb 12 15:53:17 I only have access through the internet port, not management ports :) Feb 12 15:53:25 I'm not following, you lost me Feb 12 15:53:31 meh, thanks anyway Feb 12 15:53:42 ZogG: see? now I'm gone Feb 12 15:54:14 besides, anything injercted wouldn't go very far :P Feb 12 15:54:36 depends on your keyring ;-) Feb 12 15:55:47 you wouldn't believe what can be done with a server farm/cloud like amazon's, when you got millions of IV Feb 12 15:55:50 :-P Feb 12 15:57:11 o/ Feb 12 16:03:49 Jaffa, optimistic about getting the project leadership to discuss that in the open? ;) Feb 12 16:06:02 GAN900: Pfft, no ;-) Feb 12 16:06:49 lost me Feb 12 16:07:16 Jaffa, maybe you can put it on the TSG agenda? *g* Feb 12 16:08:34 put what on the agenda? a funeral? =) Feb 12 16:09:16 nokias? Feb 12 16:12:08 ffs Feb 12 16:12:09 mood in here improved any since yesterday? Feb 12 16:12:19 I have a patch for meego but can't test it cause I can't compile :/ Feb 12 16:13:02 Scratchbox > MADDE, why doesn't MeeGo's SDK use it :/ Feb 12 16:17:00 and of course, #meego's dead for help, as usual Feb 12 16:20:48 Because that was a rhetorical question Feb 12 16:21:10 They got Moblin from Intel, with all the Moblin tools. Scratchbox is dead. Feb 12 16:21:56 And to develop for Moblin, you either have to use their remote build environment, or install Moblin inside a virtual machine and use it there Feb 12 16:26:03 RST38h, then wtf is http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.1/Getting_started_with_the_MeeGo_SDK_for_Linux for? Feb 12 16:26:58 It does not load Feb 12 16:27:31 Mohammad: this is for qt app developers, not for you Feb 12 16:28:54 ZogG: heh, looks a lot like the solution i came up with... Feb 12 16:29:06 RST38h, did meego finally adopt rpm, or is it still dpkg? Feb 12 16:29:11 shoulda googled harder Feb 12 16:30:21 (me, i mean) Feb 12 16:33:06 Arkenoi: afaik harmattan is still deb, but meego is rpm Feb 12 16:34:18 cos^: but scheduled "meego" prototype is still basically harmattan, isn't it? Feb 12 16:35:10 i cannot say that Feb 12 16:35:14 why would anyone adopt rpm? Feb 12 16:35:30 i don't know if even anyone in nokia knows for sure Feb 12 16:35:33 RST38h, meh Feb 12 16:36:29 n9-00 was meant to be dpkg/harmattan based, despite being named meego? Feb 12 16:37:20 it is meego except for packaging Feb 12 16:37:48 what is the difference from harmattan? Feb 12 16:38:33 afaik harmattan uses dpkg because of its roots in maemo Feb 12 16:39:12 i don't know the exact reasoning but probably it would have been too risky to switch packaging in middle of project Feb 12 16:43:01 anyone using cmake as a build system? do you have a working debian/rules file?? seems no files are included in my packge Feb 12 16:44:09 uses cbbs Feb 12 16:47:00 * piggz google cbbs Feb 12 16:47:19 Arkenoi: Harmattan is debian/dpkg based Feb 12 16:47:38 Arkenoi: Meego proper is fedora/rpm/zypper based Feb 12 16:47:48 rzr: you mean cdbs? Feb 12 16:48:33 RST38h, which one was the scheduled OS for n9-00 prototype? Feb 12 16:48:56 (the one cancelled by MS asshole) Feb 12 16:49:02 Arkenoi: http://demotivators.ru/posters/79118/pesets.htm Feb 12 16:49:18 Arkenoi: Harmattan. Apparently, it is also scheduled for N9-01 Feb 12 16:49:55 So dpkg/Harmattan again, just named Meego for marketing reasons? Feb 12 16:50:14 N9-00 was probably omap3 with 256 or 512m ram, so it probably was cancelled as obsolete :) Feb 12 16:50:23 Arkenoi, yes Feb 12 16:50:50 ShadowJK, 512M is just ok Feb 12 16:51:16 Arkenoi: I guess the can just rename it back to Maemo6 for all practical purposes :) Feb 12 16:51:28 /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/cmake.mk seems to be missing?? Feb 12 16:51:34 piggz: yes Feb 12 16:51:40 as i stated before, i'd happily buy n900i with 512Mb and everything else similar to old n900 Feb 12 16:52:07 Arkenoi: http://demotivators.ru/posters/233038/gladit.htm Feb 12 16:52:20 Which pretty much sums it up Feb 12 16:53:49 Arkenoi, yeah me too :P Feb 12 16:58:15 actually i'd even prefer 3.5" resistive to 4" capacitive Feb 12 17:04:52 * RST38h yawns and asks who is going to choose which Android phone Feb 12 17:04:57 none Feb 12 17:05:39 RST38h: once again, what's wrong with WebOS? I have asked this once or twice -- Android has custom libc so it's not easy to run anything but WebOS seems to be standard Linux. What did I miss? Feb 12 17:06:04 comparing my n900 to my wifes android, i will stick with the n900....afaict, no other phone out there has such good integration with eg, im/voip accounts Feb 12 17:07:00 chx: WebOS appears to be nice, but only two phones will be released (one too small),and it is not clear how popular it becomes Feb 12 17:07:11 chx: You should ask javispedro about details, heknows more Feb 12 17:07:27 RST38h: and that matters to us because we are using one of the most popular phones already arent we. Feb 12 17:07:33 WebOS is "not a proper linux"m like android, right? Feb 12 17:07:37 well hp donated a server to webos-internals community... Feb 12 17:07:46 it's more proper than Android afaik Feb 12 17:07:50 BCMM_, android isn't proper linux Feb 12 17:08:01 ruskie: that's what i meant Feb 12 17:08:08 but my punctuation got lost Feb 12 17:08:37 webos from what I figured out is proper linux but doesn't use X(I'm assuming it uses framebuffer only) Feb 12 17:08:39 it's close to maemo, if you don't consider the UI Feb 12 17:08:52 oh, ok Feb 12 17:08:57 chx: I have no idea what mattersto you Feb 12 17:09:05 does Qt embedded work on said framebuffer? Feb 12 17:09:09 Never asked, too Feb 12 17:09:09 RST38h: running Debian on a phone :) ? Feb 12 17:09:16 Ok, fine Feb 12 17:09:16 (in any case, no X is a serious handycap imho) Feb 12 17:09:18 BCMM_, that's what is actually used Feb 12 17:09:25 BCMM_, and sdl for native code stuff Feb 12 17:13:35 BCMM_, on no X isn't a serious handycap... Feb 12 17:13:45 it must be fairly normal as http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Debian Debian Chroot is a breeze. Feb 12 17:13:47 erm... and no X even... Feb 12 17:22:03 http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/12/samsung-galaxy-s-2-and-10-1-inch-honeycomb-tablet-leaked-on-kore/ Feb 12 17:22:29 slapping meego on those specs would be quite interesting Feb 12 17:22:45 So tired of Android Feb 12 17:22:52 and now we're doomed to it. Feb 12 17:22:53 I hope rasterman's samsung project arrives in a smartphone product :) Feb 12 17:23:13 and hope atleast samsung wont become an oem :/ Feb 12 17:23:15 I'm not interested in Android Feb 12 17:23:41 ShadowJK, what project? Feb 12 17:23:43 Yep Feb 12 17:24:04 But switching to a Samsung (!) OSS (!!) project actually sounds like a really bad joke =) Feb 12 17:24:29 lol Feb 12 17:24:43 I bought a samsung netbook, it came with some software that has GPL offer Feb 12 17:25:32 My last netbook had SuSe on it. Feb 12 17:25:41 (from lenovo) Feb 12 17:25:43 still only have a eeepc 701 Feb 12 17:25:51 I sold it, as it diddn't work for me. Feb 12 17:26:10 my next one will be a touchbook v2 Feb 12 17:26:20 ruskie: see jmy link of +F8h ago Feb 12 17:26:50 erm??? jmy? F8h ??? Feb 12 17:27:37 +-8h Feb 12 17:27:58 ca 5..9 Feb 12 17:28:56 14:02: http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.window-managers.enlightenment.user/14360 ? Feb 12 17:29:05 140230 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.window-managers.enlightenment.user/14360 raster about meego, Qt, Nokia, EFL, Samsung (*NOT* bada!) Feb 12 17:29:27 moin Feb 12 17:30:12 moin Feb 12 17:31:08 moin DocScrutinizer51 Feb 12 17:32:50 DocScrutinizer51, hmmm yeah that would definately be interesting Feb 12 17:34:41 DocScrutinizer51, but the thing that worries me about EFL and stuff is... BSD... anyone selling such devices will most likely lock down anything they can... Feb 12 17:35:07 yo yo peeps hows it going Feb 12 17:35:31 ruskie: that's a moot argument Feb 12 17:37:11 DocScrutinizer51, also looking at their platform overview... maemo still looks more open... Feb 12 17:37:39 err platform overview??? Feb 12 17:37:56 the first link that he points to in that message(a PDF) Feb 12 17:38:20 http://www.oss.kr/?module=file&act=procFileDownload&file_srl=1609&sid=96028cc2f522ec804ec973e9b92d5bd9 Feb 12 17:38:20 sorry haven't noticed Feb 12 17:38:38 page 4 of that Feb 12 17:38:45 won't open lengthy pdf right here either Feb 12 17:39:03 has a similar overview that maemo has on the wiki someplace Feb 12 17:39:25 with open source vs samsung proprietary Feb 12 17:40:52 power mgr, player, sound, cam, radio, email, messaging, telephony, media browser, contacts, event system, alarm service, certificate manager, web runtime, ui gadgets, drm, location all samsung proprietary Feb 12 17:42:53 interesting... mix of EFL and GTK... Feb 12 17:45:18 and according to that slideshow samsung is due to release a SLP phone in 2011 Feb 12 17:45:23 hmm, sounds like real mess Feb 12 17:45:40 doh! debin/rules has to be executable :/ Feb 12 17:45:47 aka samsung linux platform Feb 12 17:45:47 SLP looks really really nice Feb 12 17:46:15 samsung is one of the only companies forward thinking enough to realize that people need dual-sim phones Feb 12 17:46:38 unixSnob, they do??? Feb 12 17:46:46 sure Feb 12 17:46:52 unixSnob: loads of cheap chinese copies come with dualsim...even look like n900 Feb 12 17:46:59 * ruskie hasn't in all the time since using cell phone needed a dualsim device Feb 12 17:47:02 there's dual sim and true dual Feb 12 17:47:36 this quarter there will be a dual-sim, dual-standby android phone Feb 12 17:47:36 I've seen tripple-sim phones Feb 12 17:47:48 will kick nokias ass even harder Feb 12 17:47:56 unixSnob, nothing there to kick... Feb 12 17:47:58 fsck those who need a restart to switch, and only have mutually exclusive service Feb 12 17:48:01 while nokia has already had an ass woopin Feb 12 17:49:03 dual-standby, nice precise term Feb 12 17:49:53 alterego, ping Feb 12 17:49:59 I'll have to keep an eye out about that samsung slp device... Feb 12 17:50:06 the average dumb consumer still carries two cellphones around.. not realizing dual-sim is out there already Feb 12 17:50:26 unixSnob, erm... dualsim was out there ages ago... Feb 12 17:50:31 who has need for dual sim anyways Feb 12 17:50:43 I remember a friend 10 years ago @school who had a dual sim device Feb 12 17:50:44 ruskie: my point exactly Feb 12 17:50:56 simply people don't need dualsim Feb 12 17:51:22 jacekowski: anyone who wants a work life that's separate from their personal life.. or who crosses borders Feb 12 17:51:30 or who wants a cheap data plan Feb 12 17:51:37 unixSnob, separate work and personal separate cell phones is best Feb 12 17:51:41 well, here i have cheap data plan in my sim Feb 12 17:51:51 and my work number i just forwarded to my own number Feb 12 17:51:52 as for cheap data plans... get a decent carrier... Feb 12 17:52:00 pupnik_: JP: Gentlemen Take Polaroids Feb 12 17:52:02 because i have 700 minutes included anyways Feb 12 17:52:17 ruskie: some don't mind personal calls on the job... it's job calls on personal time that need to go Feb 12 17:52:33 unixSnob, again... separate devices work great there Feb 12 17:52:41 ruskie: dual-sim is useless Feb 12 17:52:49 DocScrutinizer51, I'm not arguing for it Feb 12 17:52:50 ruskie: a decent data carrier is not the same carrier as a decent voice carrier Feb 12 17:53:02 and decent voice carriers tend to screw you on the data plan Feb 12 17:53:07 you leave the work device @work when you leave the office... unless agreed in contract differently Feb 12 17:53:15 unixSnob, then you basically have crappy carriers Feb 12 17:53:18 ruskie: dual-standby is what we need Feb 12 17:53:34 ruskie: only if you have one carrier Feb 12 17:53:44 ruskie: if you want the best of both, you have 2 carriers Feb 12 17:53:46 unixSnob, why would I want different carriers??? Feb 12 17:53:52 I have best of both with a single carrier here Feb 12 17:54:01 to get the best of both kinds of users Feb 12 17:54:03 uses* Feb 12 17:54:23 data and voice are the same for me here Feb 12 17:54:42 if a cearrier can't do both well... I'll dump them... Feb 12 17:54:54 ruskie: sure, there's always the obscure case where the best data carrier happens to be the best voice carrier for one persons habit Feb 12 17:54:55 not reward two different carriers for their half arsed crappy service Feb 12 17:54:59 but that's just random chance Feb 12 17:55:49 unixSnob: not in civilised part of the world Feb 12 17:55:53 and i guarantee if you leave the country, your current carrier will screw you Feb 12 17:55:58 it will be $1/min Feb 12 17:56:02 ruskie: I know LOTS of people running with 2 phones on them, private and business Feb 12 17:56:13 DocScrutinizer51, well I know a few from work Feb 12 17:56:16 and I used to have that as well Feb 12 17:56:36 unixSnob: not really Feb 12 17:56:36 and I will carry a business phone if the employer wants it(they aren't getting my personal number) Feb 12 17:56:45 unixSnob: it costs me £0.23/minute Feb 12 17:56:47 and so far nobody demanded that I have a work phone... Feb 12 17:56:48 jacekowski: civilized is irrelevent.. it's about competition, and the market Feb 12 17:57:06 jacekowski: that's a lousy rate Feb 12 17:57:07 unixSnob, well I guess that assumes you actually want to be reachable personally outside the country... Feb 12 17:57:20 jacekowski: in belgium, you could get less than 10 euro cents/min Feb 12 17:57:24 (with the right carrier) Feb 12 17:57:28 unixSnob: that's in roaming Feb 12 17:57:40 if I go on vacation I don't really care about getting calls or smses... Feb 12 17:57:44 jacekowski: sure, which is why it's a lousy price Feb 12 17:58:10 if I go to a store(i.e. ikea across the border) somewhere out of country... don't really care about getting calls Feb 12 17:58:27 ruskie: or you don't want to carry two phones around so you have your domestic phone when you land at the airport Feb 12 17:58:47 unixSnob, erm... or just swap out a sim? Feb 12 17:59:01 or if you cross with a train, you want to be available for one area right up until you cross Feb 12 17:59:18 ruskie: sure, if you're old fashioned Feb 12 17:59:20 * ruskie notes he actually doesn't want to be available to people to CALL Feb 12 17:59:29 if you want to reach me send me an email... Feb 12 17:59:33 that atleast I'll respond... Feb 12 17:59:39 my phone generally is set to quiet 24/7 Feb 12 17:59:48 and I maybe look at it once per week Feb 12 17:59:52 why give up the versatility though? it's senseless Feb 12 18:00:15 because talking to people using dodgy cell signals isn't fun... Feb 12 18:00:29 the fact that you're getting lucky with having a the best data plan and best voice plan today is only temporary. it will change, and competition changes Feb 12 18:00:45 /and/as Feb 12 18:00:46 * ruskie has the best possible voice plan... Feb 12 18:00:50 pay what you actually call... Feb 12 18:01:00 and since my calls tend to be 0/month... Feb 12 18:01:04 unixSnob: it's just that you live in some shithole where carriers don't care Feb 12 18:01:56 here i get 700 minutes for £25 with unlimited data Feb 12 18:01:57 jacekowski: what do you mean "care"? companies shouldn't "care", they aren't in the business of caring Feb 12 18:01:59 id say all carriers really care about is making money, and rules are different per country Feb 12 18:02:17 i live in a capitalistic region.. companies want to profit, not "care" Feb 12 18:02:26 they should care... Feb 12 18:02:39 else they don't really deserve to make profit Feb 12 18:02:44 pretending to care *should* get them custoemrs... Feb 12 18:02:45 and when mobile phone companies profit, it means tricks and games Feb 12 18:02:51 the US market is a great example of it Feb 12 18:03:05 I stop doing business with companis that don't care for my custom... Feb 12 18:03:09 it's more profitable to trick customers than it is to "care" Feb 12 18:03:28 unixSnob: not in civilised part of the world Feb 12 18:03:31 ruskie: the mobile phone industry has a satisfaction rating of 60% Feb 12 18:03:43 where that just means lost cuustomer Feb 12 18:03:46 jacekowski: and the US isn't civilized? Feb 12 18:03:47 and I go to extra effort of explain to others why they should not do business with said customers... Feb 12 18:03:50 no it'snot Feb 12 18:04:05 erm... said companies even Feb 12 18:04:06 jacekowski: then your use of the term is meaningless Feb 12 18:04:06 gah... Feb 12 18:04:12 jacekowski: just say waht you mean Feb 12 18:04:52 jacekowski: you don't lose a customer by treating them like crap, if all the competition does the same Feb 12 18:05:02 unixSnob, you do... Feb 12 18:05:02 exactly :/ Feb 12 18:05:09 good afternoon Feb 12 18:05:12 mobile customers choose a lesser of evils Feb 12 18:05:13 since a customer has an option of not doing business with any... Feb 12 18:05:24 and they never end up with a company that "cares" Feb 12 18:05:27 http://nexus404.com/Blog/2011/01/26/finnish-newspaper-reports-that-american-investors-forced-nokia-to-hire-stephen-elop-nokias-new-ceo-is-the-first-non-finn-in-the-companys-history-but-new-report-claims-that-nokias-hand-was-for/ Feb 12 18:05:27 I can live just fine without a cell phone Feb 12 18:05:37 if you think your provider cares, marketing has worked wonders on you Feb 12 18:05:46 ruskie: i dont use one either only n810 when travelling Feb 12 18:05:47 ruskie: not too many of them decides to do what you do Feb 12 18:05:49 unixSnob: or it really cares Feb 12 18:05:56 unixSnob: it's small things Feb 12 18:05:57 unixSnob, I know mine cares Feb 12 18:05:59 LjL: hello Feb 12 18:06:04 unixSnob: like not outsourcing call center to india Feb 12 18:06:14 jacekowski: you're not living in a civilized part of the world, where companies are profit-driven Feb 12 18:06:17 and no not from marketing Feb 12 18:06:20 marketing has never worked on me Feb 12 18:06:31 from my interactions with them Feb 12 18:06:33 unixSnob: profit driven doesn't mean screwing customers Feb 12 18:06:42 jacekowski: depends on the market Feb 12 18:06:49 jacekowski: in the mobile phone market, it does Feb 12 18:06:52 unixSnob, different regiens different mentalities Feb 12 18:07:15 here if company would try to screw me ower i would just terminate contract with them with no penalties Feb 12 18:07:18 particularly europe.. it's lousy in europe Feb 12 18:07:23 unixSnob, really? Feb 12 18:07:33 <-- is in the EU... but still hasn't gotten screwed over Feb 12 18:07:40 in europe, you can get totally burned on roaming charges if you're on a border Feb 12 18:07:49 unixSnob: not really Feb 12 18:07:55 only if you're stupid enough to leave the phone in auto mode Feb 12 18:07:56 and a cell on the other side connects Feb 12 18:08:00 jacekowski: of course you can Feb 12 18:08:02 unixSnob: roaming is really cheap Feb 12 18:08:20 my phone is always set ONLY to the home network... Feb 12 18:08:24 lowest rates start like at 5p/minute Feb 12 18:08:28 jacekowski: someone got a €800 bill one month for that Feb 12 18:08:53 dos1, well until they actually start bothering about their rights... can't really help them... Feb 12 18:08:54 roaming is capped by the EU, and it's still a lousy cap Feb 12 18:08:58 well, if you go to uncivilised US then you will have to pay like £1/minute for roaming Feb 12 18:09:16 most of carriers are even including roaming in standard included minute packet Feb 12 18:10:20 the EU had to cap things, because european carriers were screwing people under uncontrolled market circumstances Feb 12 18:10:37 the cap doesn't go far enough Feb 12 18:10:40 rotfl Feb 12 18:10:47 how much you pay for roaming? Feb 12 18:10:47 the cap is like €1/meg Feb 12 18:10:50 to roam Feb 12 18:11:27 jacekowski: if I took my plan outside the country, loading a few web pages would suck my allowance dry Feb 12 18:11:38 exactly Feb 12 18:11:48 no one in europe offers reasonable data roaming Feb 12 18:11:50 here i even have roaming data included Feb 12 18:11:53 yeah here in europe many ppl are still afraid of using mobile internet bc they fear three-figure or more bills... Feb 12 18:11:54 bullshit Feb 12 18:11:57 which is where dual sim comes in Feb 12 18:11:57 unixSnob: vodafone Feb 12 18:12:00 unixSnob: base.be Feb 12 18:12:02 t-mobile Feb 12 18:12:03 orange Feb 12 18:12:08 base.be screws you Feb 12 18:12:13 base offers FREE data roaming Feb 12 18:12:15 €1/meg Feb 12 18:12:25 0,25 EUR/100kb here Feb 12 18:12:42 vodafone offers 25MB for £1 Feb 12 18:12:48 or 0,18 EUR/100kb if I decide to go with a special eurodata thing Feb 12 18:13:08 or 15eur/15mb/month Feb 12 18:13:21 or 10mb/5eur daily Feb 12 18:14:21 jacekowski: 25MB for £1 is terrible. In the US, you can get unlimited for $50 flat Feb 12 18:14:28 unixSnob: link Feb 12 18:14:33 millennium.com Feb 12 18:14:33 unixSnob: and that's in roaming Feb 12 18:14:41 unixSnob, talking about roaming? Feb 12 18:14:50 no, that wasn't roaming Feb 12 18:14:54 exactly Feb 12 18:14:59 here i can get unlimited for £10 Feb 12 18:15:05 with 100 minutes Feb 12 18:15:09 and 100 texts Feb 12 18:15:16 3-4x cheaper Feb 12 18:15:26 25MB for £1 is a great price for roaming *comparatively*, but obviously you're still getting bent over Feb 12 18:15:52 in my case 20gb/month - after that they limit rate to 64kbps for 18eur Feb 12 18:16:14 actually 128kbps Feb 12 18:16:24 24eur Feb 12 18:16:25 unixSnob: so, $50 is terrible Feb 12 18:16:35 unixSnob: in eu you can get unlimited for £10 flat Feb 12 18:16:39 and that's an addon price to a normal phone plan Feb 12 18:16:56 and i have my N900 on plan for £25 with phone free Feb 12 18:17:07 jacekowski: you mean in the uk. I belgium €10 won't get you more than 400mb Feb 12 18:17:20 unixSnob: again, bullshit Feb 12 18:17:29 jacekowski: check base.be Feb 12 18:17:33 unixSnob: on base i had 500M for 5 euro Feb 12 18:17:37 unixSnob: last week Feb 12 18:17:44 when i went to fosdem Feb 12 18:17:57 base is the cheapest mainstream provider, second only to mobilviking -- who only does data Feb 12 18:18:29 jacekowski: 500M for 5 is an improvement, but nowhere near unlimited for £10 Feb 12 18:18:33 so you've made my case Feb 12 18:18:58 well, that means you could get ~4G for $50 Feb 12 18:19:21 have you tried downloading more thatn 4G on your $50 plan Feb 12 18:19:37 because i remember when i had hmm, 7 years ago unlimited plan Feb 12 18:19:46 jacekowski: it's not cummulative like that. With base, when you run out of quota, it eats your credit at around €1/meg Feb 12 18:19:59 so you have to take care to only top up €10 at a time Feb 12 18:20:10 yes Feb 12 18:20:17 but you could only download 500M before being limited to submodem speeds Feb 12 18:20:17 and then you have to wait up to a day or two for the next credit to become usable Feb 12 18:20:22 no Feb 12 18:20:28 i had to only wait like 60s Feb 12 18:20:32 jacekowski: chance Feb 12 18:20:40 jacekowski: I had to wait a day and half once Feb 12 18:20:59 and when i went to US and bought US prepaid with $100 on it Feb 12 18:21:02 and worse, I started using it half a day later.. when it didn't get validated, and got burned Feb 12 18:21:10 i used up everything in hour Feb 12 18:21:17 jacekowski: should have used millennicom Feb 12 18:21:30 $50 unlimited Feb 12 18:21:33 are they doing prepaids? Feb 12 18:21:44 that's what it is.. no contract Feb 12 18:22:02 well, that was almost 1,5 year ago Feb 12 18:22:20 i was using millenicom in 2007 Feb 12 18:22:21 Venemo_N900: hi there Feb 12 18:22:33 anyways Feb 12 18:22:35 i have stuff to do Feb 12 18:22:46 Venemo_N900: i've started a page about making N810's more modern feeling. http://wiki.maemo.org/Using_the_N8x0 Feb 12 18:22:54 LjL: if you still have the N810, check out Puzzle Master. just ported it. Feb 12 18:23:32 Venemo_N900: oh cool! Feb 12 18:24:01 LjL: it's in Extras-devel right now Feb 12 18:24:48 i'm just wondering if it will ever happen when mobile phones will be like pcs Feb 12 18:24:55 where you just install any os you want Feb 12 18:27:32 Venemo_N900: :) Feb 12 18:27:37 LjL: :) rather Feb 12 18:27:48 SpeedEvil: thanks :) Feb 12 18:28:12 SpeedEvil, LjL: although I missed one bug for the current release. Feb 12 18:28:37 :) Feb 12 18:29:26 MohammadAG: pong Feb 12 18:33:56 Venemo_N900: nice game. i have a small thing to suggest though, don't make two matching pieces stick *immediately*, or sometimes they'll stick even when you're just moving them around and not really realizing they match in the first place. Feb 12 18:34:24 LjL: nice idea Feb 12 18:34:42 when will the n800 be superceded? Feb 12 18:34:46 what's next? Feb 12 18:34:56 ponies!!! Feb 12 18:34:59 LjL: could you please post this to the TMO announce thread of puzzle master? Feb 12 18:35:08 LjL: that way I wouldn't forget Feb 12 18:40:17 alterego, how do I delete all items in a QListWidget? Feb 12 18:42:10 there isn't an Extras-testing for OS2008? Feb 12 18:45:09 Venemo_N900: done Feb 12 18:47:36 LjL: I'll take it to -testing when I think it's ready Feb 12 18:47:42 foreach(QGraphicsItem *item, listwidget->items()) {listwidget->removeItem(item);} Feb 12 18:47:51 MohammadAG: ^ Feb 12 18:48:40 qt is a bad idea, i swear Feb 12 18:48:44 believe me :< Feb 12 18:48:54 alterego, that deletes them? Feb 12 18:48:54 Venemo_N900: no but i mean, is there a testing repository at all? i haven't found it, while i've found it for fremantle Feb 12 18:49:13 LjL: I think there is Feb 12 18:49:14 (also, doesn't a QListWidget hold QListWidgetItems?) Feb 12 18:49:16 Then: delete item; Feb 12 18:49:24 MohammadAG: yes it does Feb 12 18:49:39 alterego: QListWidget doesn't have QGrpahicsItems Feb 12 18:51:37 Oh, I'm looking at QGraphicsScene for some reason :D Feb 12 18:53:13 i'm just wondering where it is because http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/dists/ Feb 12 19:00:24 can someone do a ls /home/user/.cache/media-art/ | wc -l? Feb 12 19:00:39 http://parislemon.com/post/3237400800/introducing-the-microsoft-puppet How to buy nokia for free Feb 12 19:01:14 has anyone ever thought about enabling subpixel anti-aliasing for Maemo fonts? the screen is already high resolution, but it could always get better Feb 12 19:03:08 LjL: subpixel rendering is made for low-res screens Feb 12 19:03:35 venemo: subpixel rendering is useful on highres screens too Feb 12 19:04:07 i don't see why it wouldn't work well on a hires screen... of course, there's less point to it, but it's not like i can't see the pixels on my N810 Feb 12 19:04:15 sure at some point it won't be, but i think we are there yet Feb 12 19:05:50 anyone? :P Feb 12 19:06:32 i'd do it but i don̈́t think it'd be useful for you if i do it on my N810, would it? :P Feb 12 19:07:52 LjL: By the way, I was wrong. gnuite's route server for Maemo Mapper seems to be back up. Feb 12 19:08:21 derf: ah, thanks for the info Feb 12 19:09:24 * ShadowJK struggles trying to figure out how to create outgoing bluetooth DUN gprs connection on Windows7 Feb 12 19:09:51 I need to find place to enter the AT+cgdcont... strong somewhere... Feb 12 19:10:27 u dun goofd Feb 12 19:12:41 Ah, found it hidden in device manager Feb 12 19:13:47 but not working :/ Feb 12 19:13:52 oh, it is Feb 12 19:14:28 shadowjk : is it supported? Feb 12 19:14:43 Excellent, internet on W7 laptop without any extra malware installs needed Feb 12 19:14:52 (through n900) Feb 12 19:14:55 oh Feb 12 19:15:03 that's easy to do Feb 12 19:15:03 over bluetooth :) Feb 12 19:15:07 yeah Feb 12 19:15:27 actually, the lazy approach is to use pcsuite or ovisuite Feb 12 19:15:28 I was just expecting to find the settings in one place, I guess Feb 12 19:15:39 while the connection is up, just rename it Feb 12 19:15:47 then get rid of the suite :) Feb 12 19:15:57 the connection will survive :) Feb 12 19:16:11 I've been called to "fix" computers before when ovi/pcsuite has been eating RAM*2 on boot, so I'm not installing that Feb 12 19:16:15 but you shouldn't need any at commands Feb 12 19:16:23 * ShadowJK doesn't trust it to uninstall cleanly either.. Feb 12 19:16:28 just uninstall it after use Feb 12 19:16:35 you should be just able to dial *99# Feb 12 19:16:45 yeah, i didn't need at commands Feb 12 19:16:48 without any initialization Feb 12 19:17:00 Apparently I needed AT+CGDCONT=1,"ip","internet.saunalahti" Feb 12 19:17:11 i had a lot more pain on osx Feb 12 19:17:22 hi, i installed multiboot-kernel-power and now i get multiboot screen but phone powers off after. any ideas on how i can fix? Feb 12 19:17:49 Probably using my Nokia E75 it'd work without the extra init, because E75 has setting on what ap to use when acting as modem Feb 12 19:17:53 and you cannot configure multiple cellular providers for your phone Feb 12 19:18:10 so when i added a UK or IE sim, i roasted my FI settings Feb 12 19:18:54 of note, ovi suite guessed the wrong network for my n900 w/ elisa Feb 12 19:18:59 that was depressing Feb 12 19:19:13 Yeah i had to enter AP as that AT command in Modem advanced settings, so it will use same setting always even if I create new connection for a different sim/provider :/ Feb 12 19:19:20 http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9209198 Feb 12 19:20:02 w/ windows this is easier to handle Feb 12 19:21:59 On N800/N810 it kinda worked, unless you had several phones in which case you have to switch phone in controlpanel - phone manually Feb 12 19:24:16 DocScrutinizer, what do you think about yesterday's news? Feb 12 19:24:33 Venemo_N900: nokia is fucked Feb 12 19:25:04 kerio: 100% agreed Feb 12 19:25:09 shadowjk : yeah, that wasn't too painful actually Feb 12 19:25:20 Venemo_N900: M$ at its best Feb 12 19:25:38 or, alternatively, nokia will drop a lot, they'll fire that moron and go back to symbian smartphones Feb 12 19:25:46 with the usual mediocre software and great hardware Feb 12 19:25:49 hehe Feb 12 19:25:56 they'll never go back to symbian Feb 12 19:26:01 anyway, I feel a bit sorry for them Feb 12 19:26:09 yeah its sad Feb 12 19:26:21 revolution! Feb 12 19:26:21 i'm p. sure elop will do quite a bit of earth scorching regarding symbian Feb 12 19:26:52 I'm also sorry for the fired Finnish people Feb 12 19:27:04 let's just hope there'll be someone who picks up MeeGo Feb 12 19:28:13 meh, meego hanset UX?? who? Feb 12 19:28:22 i thought Ava already did that Feb 12 19:28:34 WTF Ava? Feb 12 19:28:57 Aava Feb 12 19:28:58 * timeless_xchat shrugs Feb 12 19:29:08 o.O Feb 12 19:30:52 is the aava usable as a phone? Feb 12 19:30:58 oh, right, it's finnish, it would be doubled Feb 12 19:31:02 DocScrutinizer: not the handset ux. handset ux is horsesh*t Feb 12 19:31:08 http://www.aavamobile.com/ uhuh Feb 12 19:31:27 why would the Australasian Association of Volunteer Administrators need Meego? Feb 12 19:31:29 :P Feb 12 19:32:43 For technical specifications about the Aava Core, module and tablet/smartphone reference platforms, please contact us at info@aavamobile.com. Feb 12 19:32:45 PFFFFF Feb 12 19:33:00 heh Feb 12 19:33:03 "Nokia USA president is out, replaced by Microsoft vet Chris Weber as Elopocalypse continues" Feb 12 19:33:07 http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/12/nokia-usa-president-is-out-replaced-by-microsoft-vet-chris-webe/ Feb 12 19:33:14 anyone here use the n900 facebook chat thing? Feb 12 19:33:20 Sc0rpius: Ouch. Feb 12 19:33:23 OMG they are turning Nokia into another Microsoft Feb 12 19:33:27 i use jabber because i'm a nerd Feb 12 19:33:49 I guess NOK must be like 25% down right now Feb 12 19:34:00 Sc0rpius: yes it is, actually Feb 12 19:34:38 Well, Nokia decided they are already screwed, so it's a nice legal way to Harakiri, I mean, how many successful Microsoft partners are there? And what's the ratio between these and partners that got screwed over? Feb 12 19:34:54 0 and 0 Feb 12 19:35:10 just wait with those two zeros Feb 12 19:35:11 :D Feb 12 19:35:18 unsuccessful is 8 and ∞ Feb 12 19:35:27 or something Feb 12 19:35:28 FUCK! Feb 12 19:35:35 you know well that there ARE succesful MS partnerships just not many Feb 12 19:35:49 and it's also somewhat.. fashionable? to just hate MS for being MS Feb 12 19:35:51 what a way to be stupid. Microsoft Smartphones are less than 4% of the market share, why would ANYONE go for that? Feb 12 19:36:00 DocScrutinizer: ? Feb 12 19:36:00 now get out the marines to stop this public enemy Elop! Feb 12 19:36:09 DocScrutinizer: :D Feb 12 19:36:12 but in case you have not realized, MS changed a lot lately and actually became friendlier with open source Feb 12 19:36:18 i am not saying this is a good move Feb 12 19:36:26 but i want somewhat be more objective Feb 12 19:36:30 chx: friendlier? not really. Feb 12 19:36:39 chx: they're just pretending Feb 12 19:36:40 chx: STFU Feb 12 19:36:42 no, only down 14.5% http://www.google.co.uk/finance?q=BIT:NOK1V Feb 12 19:36:50 "only" Feb 12 19:36:59 ;) Feb 12 19:37:03 http://www.microsoft.com/web/drupal so this is pretending? Feb 12 19:37:17 Venemo_N900, it's only like 15% down between yesterday and today, ... Feb 12 19:37:22 chx: yes, it is Feb 12 19:37:28 let's see how it reacts on monday with this announce of Nokia USA president... Feb 12 19:37:29 yacc: oh, sorry. Feb 12 19:37:49 yeah, monday will be interesting Feb 12 19:38:12 yeah Monday will be another 10-15% down Feb 12 19:38:21 I bet Feb 12 19:38:47 I knew it dropped - hadn't realised it continued to drop as the day went on. 13:30 - that'll be when US came online. And look at those volumes... Feb 12 19:40:50 wonder how low ms waits for it to get before buying nokia Feb 12 19:41:08 Why bother buying them? Feb 12 19:41:29 They'll build the hardware you want and take on the capital expenditure risk, whilst paying *you* for an OS which you were developing anyway... Feb 12 19:41:43 (and which nobody wanted) Feb 12 19:41:45 microsoft's code hosting platform (codeplex) supports Mercurial (and sponsors it) Feb 12 19:42:10 chx, well, they've choosen to become yet-another-hardware-provider with little to say about the software. Android would have allowed them at least to participate and to provide their own add-on value, ... Feb 12 19:42:14 timeless_xchat: otoh, microsoft's "open source" licenses aren't really that open Feb 12 19:42:30 timeless_xchat: since you are an insider, how do you feel about this stuff? Feb 12 19:42:34 kerio: gpl is tainting Feb 12 19:42:45 and that's why i use ISC Feb 12 19:42:48 Jaffa: well, I figured chances are that if they don't buy, nokia would go bankrupt and thus couldn't serve their purpose Feb 12 19:42:50 no idea how bad the ms licenses are Feb 12 19:43:05 timeless_xchat, kind of less tainting then the typical commercial license, I'd say ;) Feb 12 19:43:13 >get former executive CEO Feb 12 19:43:17 >make share drop Feb 12 19:43:20 >buy when the price is low Feb 12 19:43:23 timeless_xchat, for Phone 7, the range of allowed hardware is rather tiny, ... Feb 12 19:43:25 venemo: i'm glad that ovi will die eventually Feb 12 19:43:26 >PROFIT! Feb 12 19:43:35 yacc: which? Feb 12 19:43:38 timeless_xchat, that's why all WinPhone7 phones look like clones, ... Feb 12 19:43:40 (there's no "???" there) Feb 12 19:43:52 Howdy, timeless_xchat. Feb 12 19:44:03 heya Feb 12 19:44:09 timeless_xchat: also, what'll happen to Qt? Feb 12 19:44:16 venemo: i'm hoping for more management causualties Feb 12 19:44:29 timeless_xchat, basically, MS decided to go half-way between Android that has wide range of allowed hardware even for the Google-Marketplace, and Apple, which has a tendency to Singleton implementations, ... Feb 12 19:44:37 i only heard of one last night (?) Feb 12 19:44:47 plus the one someone just mentioned Feb 12 19:45:00 they will just rename it nokia ikkuna (ikkuna = window, ovi = door) Feb 12 19:45:00 mhm Feb 12 19:45:02 :D Feb 12 19:45:05 yacc : seems reasonable Feb 12 19:45:18 jaska: shhh Feb 12 19:45:26 don't give them any bad ideas Feb 12 19:45:48 with our luck, they'll miss the smily and implement it Feb 12 19:45:59 timeless_xchat, with Phone7, they've specified hardware which is kind of 1-2 years old (because that's the time frame they've planned on), compared to current Apple/Android offerings, ... Feb 12 19:46:03 anyway, symbian's been dead for years Feb 12 19:46:16 you know, symbian isn't that bad Feb 12 19:46:23 it's really not flexible, but it's not bad Feb 12 19:46:36 i mean, it has copypaste Feb 12 19:46:40 timeless_xchat: I was hoping that the announcement will be symbian EOL, and not this horseshit. Feb 12 19:46:50 venemo : yeah, me too Feb 12 19:46:57 timeless_xchat, well, Symbian makes a fine OS for "feature-phones" nowadays, and what Nokia is really missing, is the Market experience, I mean Ovi is a joke, ... Feb 12 19:47:33 anyway, the good thing is that the ceo said there has to be responsibility and accountability Feb 12 19:47:39 timeless_xchat, there are J2ME download sites that are nicer than the Ovi store, ... Feb 12 19:47:50 he also wants to put decision making at the right levels Feb 12 19:48:00 all of these are laudable goals Feb 12 19:48:08 no clue if they'll be implemented Feb 12 19:48:27 the world needs less markets and more repositories Feb 12 19:49:33 ( venemo: i'm hoping for more management causualties) just holler if we can help :-D Feb 12 19:49:41 kerio, well, I can live with the N900 quite well, but you know the bean counters want to be able to charge per "app", hence dpkg/apt won't do, ... Feb 12 19:50:05 i'd say that nokia is in this situation because of the beancounters Feb 12 19:50:11 * DocScrutinizer ramps up the MTHELs Feb 12 19:50:13 so i wouldn't necessarily trust them with these decisions Feb 12 19:50:41 ~nuke elop for being a moron Feb 12 19:50:42 * apt prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at elop for being a moron ... B☢☢M! Feb 12 19:50:50 kerio, possible, as I said the amount that I've spent on the Google Market is not exactly huge, it's about perception, ... Feb 12 19:51:34 * DocScrutinizer reprograms apt's terget tracker for "DevelopersDevelopersDevelopers" Feb 12 19:51:42 target* Feb 12 19:51:47 But then, I guess somebody in Finland decided that they had to press that RED BUTTON labeled "DO NOT PRESS NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS" ;) Feb 12 19:51:52 i'm sitting at an anual dinner, nokia contributed its standard 10kEUR Feb 12 19:52:04 \o/ Feb 12 19:52:38 last slap-up meal Feb 12 19:53:03 hi, i installed multiboot-kernel-power and now i get multiboot screen but phone powers off after. any ideas on how i can fix? i tried ./flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin --flash-only=kernel -f -R with no luck removing the multiboot menu Feb 12 19:53:06 Btw, which donkey decided to use a non-standard connector for the N8? Feb 12 19:53:28 Non standard for what? Feb 12 19:53:40 I thought N8 was musb a or b, or ab? Feb 12 19:53:48 it's a good meal w/ real kosher meat - a rarity in .fi Feb 12 19:53:53 evilbulg1rian: probably watchdog Feb 12 19:53:57 * yacc managed to buy a "Host USB" cable at the local Nokia shop, just to discover a couple of minutes later that it does not fit the MicroUSB slot of his N900, ... Feb 12 19:54:15 alterego: never mind pushed B on the multiboot meny and it booted Feb 12 19:54:19 yacc : i hope they let you return it Feb 12 19:54:21 yacc, of course it doesn't, n900 doesn't have usb host Feb 12 19:54:29 alterego: now il try to re-install mutiboot-kernel-pwer per wiki Feb 12 19:54:38 ShadowJK, a very popular misconception, the connector is a rectangle form factor, ... Feb 12 19:55:16 timeless_xchat, they let me return it immediatly, but the funny thing is two Nokia employees sold it to me when I showed them the N900 and asked for a MicroUSB host cable, ... Feb 12 19:55:33 ShadowJK, square port Feb 12 19:55:45 same as the one on the N800 (or was it N810...) Feb 12 19:55:53 the one that switches to OTG properly Feb 12 19:55:56 no Feb 12 19:56:16 ShadowJK, it does not have official host support, inofficial I've somehow heard it's somehow working, which is not the point, I've been hunting for that cable not for my N900, it's more useful for the Archos tablets, ... Feb 12 19:56:30 Well, N800 has MiniUSB, which is now deprecated in the usb standard Feb 12 19:56:45 oh, thought it was microUSB Feb 12 19:57:01 anyways, the port is square, instead of the one on the N900 Feb 12 19:57:16 MohammadAG: N810 has standard microusb Feb 12 19:57:17 N800 has MiniUSB, N810 has MicroUSB Feb 12 19:57:28 qgil's online on tmo Feb 12 19:57:42 The N8 cable doesn't fit in n800 :) Feb 12 19:58:01 the N8 OTG cable doesn't fit in the N900 Feb 12 19:58:08 that too Feb 12 19:58:13 though the USB one does, it's a normal microUSB cable Feb 12 19:58:23 I wouldn't use it though, it's too tough to take out Feb 12 19:58:52 MohammadAG, I was just hunting for that cable, not necessarily for the N900, ... Feb 12 19:58:53 I felt I was removing the port, not the cable Feb 12 19:59:04 The cables are designed so that OTG cable only fits in OTG devices, and the "pc <-> device" cable fits in both OTG and non-OTG devices Feb 12 19:59:07 MohammadAG, seems like I'll have to order it, ... Feb 12 19:59:14 MohammadAG don't say you got n8 as well? Feb 12 19:59:32 ZogG, it's not mine, but yeah Feb 12 19:59:42 I had it since November I think Feb 12 19:59:48 stop feeding Nokia =) Feb 12 19:59:58 ShadowJK, considering the form factor of the cable it's hard to believe, but then, who cares,... Feb 12 19:59:59 i bet half of shares of Nokia is MohammadAG's =) Feb 12 20:00:07 I did Feb 12 20:00:14 that's why I suggested an iPhone for my dad Feb 12 20:00:14 this reminds me i need to check my n810 uptime Feb 12 20:00:16 MohammadAG: did you sell everything? Feb 12 20:00:23 TO MICROSOFT? Feb 12 20:00:32 no Feb 12 20:00:37 I sold Microsoft to Apple Feb 12 20:00:46 how did that work out? Feb 12 20:00:49 258 days :D Feb 12 20:00:50 muhahaha Feb 12 20:01:30 kerio, Nokia stocks gone under 9000 Feb 12 20:02:55 omfg Feb 12 20:03:04 is there any C app that sets volume? Feb 12 20:03:52 alsa-mixer Feb 12 20:03:53 OH WAIT Feb 12 20:04:46 * timeless_xchat runs out of power Feb 12 20:04:50 later all Feb 12 20:05:10 timeless' power level... it's not over 9000 ._. Feb 12 20:06:06 the truth about the Nokia-M$ deal, and other terrible decisions made by Nokia: http://www.ritsch-renn.com/Alle_Eier/Inhaltsverzeichnis/SC_c_t.gif Feb 12 20:06:07 http://imgur.com/SINJe funny Feb 12 20:06:25 kerio, using mafw... Feb 12 20:07:01 pupnik: it doesn't load Feb 12 20:07:06 DocScrutinizer, :) Feb 12 20:08:24 well you can finish the sentence kerio :) Feb 12 20:08:43 DocScrutinizer: :D:D:D Feb 12 20:08:49 pupnik: it still doesn't load Feb 12 20:09:04 i wonder why Feb 12 20:09:33 `slashdotted'? Feb 12 20:09:42 can you load that? http://imgur.com/gallery/SlbMN Feb 12 20:09:51 i mean, it loads half of that Feb 12 20:09:53 and i can load the gallery Feb 12 20:10:09 i think it being incomplete is part of the joke Feb 12 20:10:17 :< Feb 12 20:10:31 i expected something like that, but the rest isn't white or something Feb 12 20:13:27 alterego, qlistwidget.h:285: candidates are: QList QListWidget::items(const QMimeData*) const Feb 12 20:14:19 MohammadAG: use qDeleteAll Feb 12 20:19:30 Venemo_N900, tried that Feb 12 20:28:14 http://imgur.com/gallery/1cjkL damn, it works every single time Feb 12 20:29:56 http://imgur.com/gallery/kb3mC Cat .. chaos! Feb 12 20:30:54 http://i.imgur.com/abXmL.jpg Feb 12 20:35:58 nice maybeHere :) Feb 12 20:41:47 is Vagalume (on OS2008) refusing to authenticate for anybody else? Feb 12 20:43:01 eeew vaga Feb 12 20:43:20 eh, are there alternatives to it? Feb 12 20:44:01 I never felt like I need that single option, not to talk about alternatives, But then that's just me Feb 12 20:44:43 for all I can tell, mediaplayer is just fine for me Feb 12 20:45:12 ok, but mediaplayer doesn't get the music for you :P Feb 12 20:45:55 it doesn't? Feb 12 20:46:06 well it has radios, true Feb 12 20:46:45 but you have to pick, among a thousand radios, one that is broadcasting something you might like. and you don't even get to see what they *are* broadcasting without tuning in. Feb 12 20:47:40 well, I managed to tune to exactly the station I planned to listen to, iirc (quite some months if not years back in time, so...) Feb 12 20:50:16 Why not fire elop now? Feb 12 20:50:23 hello, i thought, I read about an maemo5 application, that reverse looksup numbers in a online telephonebook is i dont have the number in my contacts list. someone knows the name? Feb 12 20:50:47 http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Vagalume: >> Hinweis: Mit der Umstellung der Last.Fm-Radio-API sollen in Zukunft nur noch Abonnenten berechtigt sein, "third-party"-Anwendungen zu verwenden. Momentan ist Vagalume noch verwendbar, ggf. funktionieren nicht alle Sender; ggf. wird es aber in Zukunft nur noch für Last.fm-Abonennten nutzbar sein.<< xl8n: it's expected to cease working Feb 12 20:51:28 eichi: that'd be awesome. Never heard of it Feb 12 20:51:59 DocScrutinizer: actually i was trying it with Libre.fm though Feb 12 20:53:13 some analysis from the Register http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/11/nokia_microsoft_more_details/ Feb 12 20:54:33 LjL, hi Feb 12 20:54:41 last time I tried it worked Feb 12 20:54:44 and it was this year Feb 12 20:54:51 is Vagalume (on OS2008) refusing to authenticate for anybody else? Feb 12 20:55:03 ~reverse Stephen Elop Feb 12 20:55:04 polE nehpetS Feb 12 20:55:08 Isn't OS2008 old Feb 12 20:55:12 ah I'm on maemo channel Feb 12 20:55:14 sorry Feb 12 20:55:25 yeah, as a matter of fact the last Vagalume update was in December 2010, so i'm surprised it's not working for me Feb 12 20:55:36 did you try it with Last.fm or Libre.fm? Feb 12 20:57:49 librefm only Feb 12 20:57:52 let me try again Feb 12 20:57:55 but I'm not on os2008 Feb 12 20:58:11 Nokia and MSFT, sitting in the tree. W-I-N-D-O-W-S Feb 12 20:59:17 * GNUtoo|laptop reinstall vagalume (I removed it for making some space for wesnoth on the NAND) Feb 12 21:00:10 >>Asked specifically about royalties, Elop said it was er,… complicated, and waved his hands around for a while. He didn't say Nokia was getting CE for free. Instead, he said that there was "a lot of value moving in different directions".<< Read: patents sacrificed Feb 12 21:02:19 DocScrutinizer, that would actually be worrying... but I'd more says it's a x-deal... Feb 12 21:02:47 >>Nokia would "have had problems differentiating," with Android, said Elop<< MUHAHAHAHAAAAAAHAha haha ha Feb 12 21:03:01 well, he was right about that Feb 12 21:03:08 they would just became second htc Feb 12 21:03:16 selling same phones for last couple years Feb 12 21:03:23 I dunno if Elop or rather differentiation is my personal fav fo rugliest word of the year Feb 12 21:03:27 just bit better hardware every time Feb 12 21:03:50 jacekowski, and doing it with WP7 will be what?? just another htc as well... Feb 12 21:04:13 yes but with windows they don't have to compete with htc Feb 12 21:04:19 it's safer bet Feb 12 21:04:28 nokia is phones only company Feb 12 21:04:28 no, being Balmer's puppy Feb 12 21:04:48 yes, but if they go other way they have bigger chances of getting it wrong Feb 12 21:04:55 and that would be very bad for them Feb 12 21:05:06 LjL, it seem to work Feb 12 21:05:08 bs Feb 12 21:05:10 last q of 2010 they sold less symbian phones than androids Feb 12 21:05:16 LjL, but I'm not on maemo Feb 12 21:05:26 LibreFM Feb 12 21:05:39 so now it's a fact that symbian is a dying platform Feb 12 21:05:47 and there is no hope for symbian Feb 12 21:05:52 it works Feb 12 21:05:59 yes but it has bad fame Feb 12 21:06:04 and people won't buy it Feb 12 21:06:25 if you ask average person on a street they will go for iphone or android Feb 12 21:07:37 nokia needs new platform that will sell or there will be no nokia Feb 12 21:07:38 jacekowski, erm??? they don't??? Feb 12 21:07:42 how exactly? Feb 12 21:07:43 >>So there you have it. Microsoft is less scary than Google. Given the experiences of Sendo, Palm and Sony Ericsson in teaming up with Microsoft, it's a measure of how significantly perceptions have changed.<< read: "how delusional is Elop's perception, or what a pile of steaming BS he tries to feed us" Feb 12 21:07:48 htc trophy aka wp7 phone Feb 12 21:08:13 ruskie: one phone so far Feb 12 21:08:26 well, thing is wp7 market is not so tight yet Feb 12 21:08:32 therefore gives them bigger chance of success Feb 12 21:08:51 and an even bigger chance of total catastrophic failure... Feb 12 21:08:52 DocScrutinizer: From a POV of a moile telco, I'm not sure he's wrong. Feb 12 21:09:05 DocScrutinizer: A two provider marketplace is scary. Feb 12 21:09:12 and considering previous mobile windows incarnations... and their successes... Feb 12 21:09:27 well, windows CE was a decent os Feb 12 21:09:31 not designed for phones Feb 12 21:09:33 but for tablets Feb 12 21:09:36 but it did the job Feb 12 21:09:44 and it was platform that replaced palm Feb 12 21:09:50 I seriously hope samsung will be able to fill in the gap for decent open linux devices... Feb 12 21:10:09 jacekowski, actually it was palm that didn't innovate that replaced palm Feb 12 21:10:20 folks, it's NOT about the devices! Feb 12 21:10:39 you can run meego on almost every platform you like Feb 12 21:10:50 you just need a platform Feb 12 21:10:51 s/can/could/ Feb 12 21:10:57 at the moment we only have aging n900 Feb 12 21:11:18 and Elop is just proving his ignorance when talking about meego it this hw centric way Feb 12 21:12:22 see for example SHR (yeah shutup), it's running on platforms: Openmoko, HTC, Palm, N900... Feb 12 21:12:45 shr is what? Feb 12 21:12:53 the openmoko stuff? Feb 12 21:13:23 that's interesting.. Feb 12 21:13:24 DocScrutinizer, and is it actually running properly? or haly brokenly? Feb 12 21:13:26 how's the recent shr? Feb 12 21:13:35 on all those platforms... Feb 12 21:13:37 and as long as Nokia only would be willing to keep the bootloader uncripp^H^Hsigned and publish specs like they did in wirelessmobileapi.com... Feb 12 21:13:46 guys... it's a phone. and a company. you don't have to use their stuff if you think it sucks Feb 12 21:14:03 motorola is always willing to sell you a simple phone Feb 12 21:14:05 Gorroth: go away Feb 12 21:14:16 just telling it like it is Feb 12 21:14:36 Gorroth, so is nokia... s40 is according to the info getting more investment Feb 12 21:14:46 Gorroth: your point please Feb 12 21:14:55 DocScrutinizer: my point is if you don't like it, stop buying Feb 12 21:15:17 my point is: if you came here trolling, you better stay away Feb 12 21:15:20 ruskie: yeah, nokia will sell you cheap phones too Feb 12 21:15:31 DocScrutinizer: i just see a lot of bitching is all Feb 12 21:15:40 but this has nothing to do with who will sell me what... Feb 12 21:15:55 so I still don't get your point in you entering this conversation Feb 12 21:15:57 Gorroth: the problem is that nokia was only really open source friendly company in years Feb 12 21:16:03 Gorroth: and they made good devices Feb 12 21:16:14 Gorroth: right ATM I see *you* bitching Feb 12 21:16:15 ruskie: oh, well, just ignore me then Feb 12 21:16:26 DocScrutinizer: nah, just making points Feb 12 21:16:37 are you? Feb 12 21:16:38 a lot of whining is going on about Elop Feb 12 21:16:45 go make your points to your flipchart, at home Feb 12 21:16:46 just bringing perspective Feb 12 21:16:52 I like how criticising corporations is now somehow bad Feb 12 21:17:01 we're just supposed to ignore what they do and go somewhere else Feb 12 21:17:02 we don't want perspective here Feb 12 21:17:05 we want to cry alone Feb 12 21:17:12 without anybody trying to make us happy Feb 12 21:17:14 wrong place for perspective... Feb 12 21:17:17 wmarone: yeah, that's how capitalism works Feb 12 21:17:19 "apple's walled garden is bad" "go somewhere else!" Feb 12 21:17:21 shit happened and we have to deal with it in our own way Feb 12 21:17:26 in fact, it was capitalism that brought nokia to this decision Feb 12 21:17:37 Gorroth: I'll still criticize what I consider bad decisions and poor policy Feb 12 21:17:58 wmarone: okay, and i'll bring perspective Feb 12 21:18:02 corporations aren't supposed to be immune from criticism Feb 12 21:18:12 unless they're just allowed to roll over everyone and do whatever they want Feb 12 21:18:18 Gorroth: if you don't like our topic here, you aren't forced to join this channel Feb 12 21:18:26 (and yes I realize they enjoy the almost total lack of consumer protections in the US) Feb 12 21:18:44 meh. i'm in the whole "i don't really care what nokia does" camp. best thing about it is i can either choose to buy their stuff in the future or someone else's. i just don't care much in the end Feb 12 21:18:57 Gorroth, then why exactly are you in here? Feb 12 21:19:03 Gorroth: obviously if you don't care then this isn't the place to be Feb 12 21:19:12 I bought my N900 precisely because I -did- care Feb 12 21:19:13 ruskie: well, i still like maemo. i thought the topic of discussion was that OS Feb 12 21:19:35 Gorroth: and it'll probably slowly return to that Feb 12 21:19:43 in a week or two... Feb 12 21:19:44 as much as it can Feb 12 21:19:45 Gorroth: please, don't make up basic boolean logics as your new paradigm to teach us so we'll see the truth Feb 12 21:19:48 i care to the point that it works for me Feb 12 21:20:09 DocScrutinizer: oh, sorry, didn't see you there Feb 12 21:20:17 i think you might have said a few things i wasn't reading Feb 12 21:21:41 linux kernel on htc devices seems like a happy thing Feb 12 21:22:19 pupnik, if you can provide a GNU or BSD style userspace that is accessible and root access... then it would be happier still... Feb 12 21:22:20 lack of xorg compatible video drivers is not :/ Feb 12 21:22:42 GNUtoo|laptop: uhm ok, thanks for checking. i will try with another account Feb 12 21:28:33 http://www.grc.com/sn/SN-022.htm [ The Windows MetaFile Backdoor ] - Trojan horse malware manufacturer coming soon, to a phone near you? Feb 12 21:29:23 ? Feb 12 21:29:32 the old WMF bug (who uses WMF files?) Feb 12 21:39:32 wmarone: it's a good FUD article against M$ Feb 12 21:43:29 pupnik: well, anything from GRC is highly suspect Feb 12 21:44:44 wmarone: why Feb 12 21:44:57 pupnik: is that Beavis and Butthead? Feb 12 21:45:17 chx: he prefers hype over accuracy and has a habit of making doomsday predictions Feb 12 21:45:25 sure. Feb 12 21:45:40 he actually opposed XP because he was afraid of what would happen if the average user had access to the NT TCP/IP stack Feb 12 21:49:39 >>English is a very subtle language. You can tell from the context. We don't have to tell you we're talking about good hackers or bad hackers. There are both. And just listen to what we're saying, and I think it'll be obvious. What I say when people - and I get this all the time still. And I just say, look, we're trying to communicate in a language, a common language. And if most people don't understand "cracker" and they do understand " Feb 12 21:49:40 hacker," that's the word we're going to use.<< OMFG! Who has been teaching your ignorant audience about the meaning of hacker to be a bad thing? Feb 12 21:50:53 DocScrutinizer, the media... since the 80s or so iirc Feb 12 21:51:06 and meanwhile not even judges do understand it's not a sufficient fact for 10 years doing time, when you wear a T-shirt with "I'm a hacker!" Feb 12 21:51:12 hah Feb 12 21:52:37 now they do same shit pivoted 90°, with "terrorist". Look at "environment-protection terrorists" or whatever you call it in US Feb 12 21:53:34 And CIA publicly states it's their duty to spread that point of view all over the world Feb 12 21:54:41 LOLWUT?! Feb 12 21:54:57 so yeah. Of course! Why extradite Assange to the USA? Let's just tell the fuckin Europeans to shoot him for us Feb 12 21:56:05 muhaha, implemented video listing in open source media player, scrolling through it kicks the shit out of the stock media player Feb 12 21:56:08 <3 Qt Feb 12 22:02:42 lol Feb 12 22:02:49 nokia trolled us Feb 12 22:03:00 they played teh long game Feb 12 22:06:25 vi_, most expensive trolling effort *evar* Feb 12 22:06:48 worth it Feb 12 22:06:55 totally worth it Feb 12 22:12:41 http://www.mobilityminded.com/11803/htc-7-pro-available-o2 <<< that looks pretty good hardware-wise Feb 12 22:13:21 pupnik, this is back to square one in terms of linux ports to phones though Feb 12 22:14:03 don't you remember all the winCE 6 devices that took years to get linux running on? that were missing things like power management and modem support for years after the phone was out? Feb 12 22:14:11 God this film is boring Feb 12 22:14:50 johnx: we got better on that :-) Feb 12 22:14:55 I'm going to wait and see what Nokia do in regards to the next device. Feb 12 22:15:26 true enough johnx Feb 12 22:15:32 I would be happy with things continuing as they are. Feb 12 22:16:24 DocScrutinizer, I'm not disagreeing, but I'm interested in why things are better nowadays? more talented hackers? more device drivers? more common hardware? Feb 12 22:17:23 More open hardware specs, better collaboration, more interest. Feb 12 22:17:43 The devices are more affordable so there is more interest I guess. Feb 12 22:17:50 alterego, how much does android hurt or help this process? Feb 12 22:18:27 moo johnx Feb 12 22:18:29 Well, that depends on how it's used. It does promote the idea of OSS though Feb 12 22:18:44 actually that'd be the most reasonable option, or at least he most logical one: just cancel meego, assign the crew to maemo, and open up the sources proper, so community truly can contribute. Then ship a linux BSP (Board Support Package) for all future high end smartphones Feb 12 22:18:55 Even if ISVs don't always open up completely. Feb 12 22:18:57 Even if ISVs don't always open up completely. Feb 12 22:19:03 are we still morbid,or getting philosophicalnow? =( Feb 12 22:19:09 about >> I would be happy with things continuing as they are.<< this is Feb 12 22:19:10 s/=(/=) Feb 12 22:19:27 RST38h, thinking about the future :) Feb 12 22:19:48 it is all in technicolor Feb 12 22:19:56 Yeah, well, I'm looking forward to seeing a polished MeeGo handset from Nokia ... Feb 12 22:20:05 DocScrutinizer, I'm mostly doubtful of how well maemo 5 can be maintained long term as a distribution Feb 12 22:20:06 johnx: a bit of all Feb 12 22:20:45 johnx: I was thinking of something more up-to-date, with meego binary blobs and community produced user space apps. Feb 12 22:21:09 At least until we have a full MeeGo system. Feb 12 22:21:13 johnx: here is one possible future: Feb 12 22:21:19 With more refined Ux Feb 12 22:21:31 alterego, I'm all for that Feb 12 22:21:35 johnx: http://www.oss.kr/?module=file&act=procFileDownload&file_srl=1609&sid=96028cc2f Feb 12 22:21:50 RST38h, a login page? Feb 12 22:21:51 alterego: We had a full Mer system, was it of any use? Feb 12 22:21:53 johnx: and of course andidiot helps a friggin lot when it comes to anti-vendor ports Feb 12 22:22:01 the future is web login pages! You've seen it here first! Feb 12 22:22:03 ah wait Feb 12 22:22:45 http://www.oss.kr/?module=file&act=procFileDownload&file_srl=1609&sid=96028cc2f522ec804ec973e9b92d5bd9 Feb 12 22:22:48 here, feed Feb 12 22:22:54 DocScrutinizer, in terms of already having u-boot installed and some basic idea of memory addresses and such super low level stuff? Feb 12 22:23:12 RST38h, still a login page :) Feb 12 22:23:19 well, all kinds of driver stuff Feb 12 22:23:25 no Feb 12 22:23:26 nm, it's pushing a PDF at me as well Feb 12 22:23:33 read it Feb 12 22:24:22 johnx: SHR more than once took android drivers and alienated them to work in linux Feb 12 22:25:01 and of course with hackers like Harald Welte things become possible you never thought might ever be Feb 12 22:25:36 DocScrutinizer, I imagine a lot of the hardest work is actually figuring out the right obscure memory ranges to poke in order to make the device do something. In that sense, the Android drivers are probably a very useful resource Feb 12 22:25:38 I love the line from one of his presentationns. Feb 12 22:25:49 'There is no open-source mobile phone stack' Feb 12 22:25:54 johnx: yup Feb 12 22:25:59 'So, I took 3 months off, and wrote one'. Feb 12 22:26:12 RST38h, raster's project :) Sooo, people are making sure that meego and LiMo don't end stupidly source incompatible, right? Feb 12 22:26:41 though Harald disassembled the WinMo6 kbd driver of Eten M800 and wrote a linux driver, during a flight from Germany to Taipei Feb 12 22:26:44 johnx: Dunno. Do you still bet on Meego? Feb 12 22:26:57 RST38h: hu, what's that? another OS from samsung? Feb 12 22:27:14 RST38h, tenatively: yes. A lot of the manufacturers involved in LiMo don't have great linux track records Feb 12 22:27:50 johnx: the presentation looks like a good start, and one manufacturer the size of Samsung is enough Feb 12 22:27:56 also, I'm still doubtful whether any of those phones will show up in the US or EU Feb 12 22:28:09 remember the motorola linux phones? Feb 12 22:28:31 we will see Feb 12 22:28:46 there's a lot of blue boxes in the diagram though :) Feb 12 22:28:50 I'd also love to get my hands on an N9 proto :D Feb 12 22:29:56 who wouldn't Feb 12 22:30:08 is there a documented way to set a ringtone? Feb 12 22:30:31 You mean programatically? Feb 12 22:30:40 yes Feb 12 22:30:52 RST38h, keyword there is MWC. hey, coincidentally, guess what engadget is covering right now? ;) Feb 12 22:30:57 need to add the "Set as ringing tone" context menu thingy Feb 12 22:31:44 Hrm, not sure, I think you just create a wav and stick it in the appropriate location. Feb 12 22:31:45 ...Such is the word from TechCrunch's well placed sources, who also say that Nokia dedicated only a three-man external team to the development of UI customizations for MeeGo.... Feb 12 22:32:12 johnx: dunno it is 1:30 am Feb 12 22:32:20 before we get rid of Elop, can we get rid of abill_uk? :P Feb 12 22:32:24 Interesting, well, that explains why the OS development is "slow" :D Feb 12 22:32:37 Hahah Feb 12 22:33:19 MOhammad: Much easier to do, just find his mom's phone number, call her, and tell her he is spending time on the Net watching other children photos, nude Feb 12 22:33:34 RST38h, it's running over the next several days. Guess we'll see whether the 'SLP' phone has the right frequency support very soon ;) Feb 12 22:34:14 johnx:I hope so Feb 12 22:34:42 I'm so annoyed Nokia scrapped Qt, it's almost unbelievable .. Feb 12 22:34:51 Burning fucking platform my ass ... Feb 12 22:35:01 alterego: If you are annoyed, imagine what those trolls are feeling Feb 12 22:35:19 I say we stick Elop on a _real_ burning platform and see what he does. Feb 12 22:35:23 alterego, I really hope they do the right thing and spin-off or sell trolltech Feb 12 22:35:26 cool, X11 supports multiple pointers Feb 12 22:35:45 Hello all Feb 12 22:35:55 alterego, I'm in. Feb 12 22:36:03 I have an old windows 3.1 manual I can contribute to a pyre. Feb 12 22:36:12 Hear he's the 7th largest MSFT stock holder? Feb 12 22:36:17 (individual) Feb 12 22:36:31 really Feb 12 22:36:33 GAN900: heard the same. Feb 12 22:36:37 ... Feb 12 22:36:53 GAN900: it's so blatantly dodgy profiteering .. Feb 12 22:37:07 Yeah Feb 12 22:37:11 alterego, Qt will live Feb 12 22:37:18 alterego: "Will he sink? Will he burn? The beast will have his feast tonight!" Feb 12 22:37:20 not on Windows Phone 7, but it's still alive Feb 12 22:37:39 or they might port Qt... /me holds breath, dies Feb 12 22:37:40 MohammadAG: I know, but I'd rather be able to actually use it on phones :P Feb 12 22:37:56 GAN900: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ir?s=MSFT+Insider+Roster Feb 12 22:38:05 alterego, then get the N9 ;P Feb 12 22:38:50 should be announced tomorrow right? Feb 12 22:39:22 pfft Feb 12 22:39:42 When is MWC? Feb 12 22:39:57 like now Feb 12 22:40:01 engadget is there :) Feb 12 22:40:11 so we get n9 tomorrow? Feb 12 22:40:23 we get even more insanity tomorrow Feb 12 22:40:29 vi_, yeah. just stop by MWC and steal the prototype Feb 12 22:40:45 does gthat mean i get my n900 meego upgrade now? Feb 12 22:41:08 vi_, sure. grab a meego daily testing image Feb 12 22:41:13 RST38h, "May you live in interesting times." Feb 12 22:41:26 would be lulz if Nokia's Windows Phone 7 edits got renamed to Maemo 7 Feb 12 22:41:45 johnx: Yes, Kali Yuga seems to be on, the last few years Feb 12 22:41:47 LOL @ post that Maemo is 95% open source Feb 12 22:42:18 so why is n900 stuck with .28 kernel? Feb 12 22:42:20 ~openness Feb 12 22:42:20 hmm... openness is http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/02/mapping-openness-of-maemo-50-pr11-and.html Feb 12 22:42:31 * rm_you waves at johnx Feb 12 22:42:44 vi_, it's on 2.6.37 with MeeGo Feb 12 22:42:46 vi_, .37 from meego.com, but I'm not sure it'll work with the maemo 5 userland Feb 12 22:42:56 hallo rm_you :D Feb 12 22:43:05 oh god, that is a wet dream Feb 12 22:43:06 so what's going on in maemo / meego / nokia land? Feb 12 22:43:20 first free weekend in a while Feb 12 22:43:23 rm_you, uhm, RTFNews Feb 12 22:43:30 need to catch up :P Feb 12 22:43:37 yeah i saw the microsoft partnership thing Feb 12 22:43:38 holy shit Feb 12 22:43:48 you are jokimg right? Feb 12 22:44:01 rm_you: clusterfuck Feb 12 22:44:09 vi_, no Feb 12 22:44:15 rm_you: You will find details on engadget Feb 12 22:44:19 heh yeah Feb 12 22:44:25 meego-handset-armv7l-n900-1.1.90.2.20110208.4-vmlinuz-2.6.37-6.1-adaptation-n900 Feb 12 22:44:42 vmlinuz-2.6.37-6.1-adaptation-n900 Feb 12 22:44:42 been hearing weird things, i always just come here to get it boiled down and with all of the BS and unfounded speculation stripped out Feb 12 22:44:54 2.6.37-6, in case you missed it Feb 12 22:45:05 whooa, whats that mo? Feb 12 22:45:10 rm_you, not a smart move these days. lot's of speculation floating around. even from me :| Feb 12 22:45:33 vi_, meego kernel as of 8 February Feb 12 22:45:55 is meego useable? Feb 12 22:46:04 http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.1.90/1.1.90.2.20110208.4/handset/images/meego-handset-armv7l-n900/ Feb 12 22:46:13 for developers Feb 12 22:46:17 (with a second N900) Feb 12 22:46:17 sooo, Nokia's going to release a meego phone this year. Mobile World Conference is on now where we're expecting MeeGo phone news from Nokia and a different Linux phone from Samsung Feb 12 22:46:26 MohammadAG: did you see my comments earlier about a more up-to-date maemo with meego closed binaries? Feb 12 22:46:26 hrmrm Feb 12 22:46:50 alterego, nope Feb 12 22:47:08 rm_you, after they release the meego phone they're going cut their meego involvement down to R&D mode, for the possible far future Feb 12 22:47:10 2.6.37 with MeeGo bme? Feb 12 22:47:30 Basically, yes. Feb 12 22:47:35 and MeeGo mce Feb 12 22:47:40 I was thinking we could do it for the cssu Feb 12 22:47:47 A _proper_ cssu :) Feb 12 22:47:53 I suggested that months ago, though I think no one noticed it :P Feb 12 22:47:58 rm_you, Intel says they're still committed to meego dev. that's everything we *know* boiled down. Now, there's tons of speculation and plans for the future Feb 12 22:48:08 the CSSU is proper alterego :) Feb 12 22:48:14 Well, I think I mentioned it about 8 months ago too :P Feb 12 22:48:30 in fact, I'm replacing osso-notificationlightscp in the next CSSU update Feb 12 22:48:35 yeah, i imagine Feb 12 22:48:38 with a FOSS clone Feb 12 22:48:43 osso-applet-notificationlight* Feb 12 22:48:50 Well, we need a complete FOSS user space. Feb 12 22:48:57 this will have gross repurcussions worldwide Feb 12 22:49:12 alterego, that's why I suggested rewriting parts bit by bit Feb 12 22:49:13 will TI be as eager to open-source their stuff now? Feb 12 22:49:20 the mediaplayer was a start Feb 12 22:49:39 pupnik: they've been eager? :P Feb 12 22:49:44 I suggest rewriting the control panel applets, those should be easy, then we can fire up portrait mode in the control panel Feb 12 22:49:48 johnx, device, not "phone" Feb 12 22:49:56 MohammadAG: I think maybe dialer should be next. Feb 12 22:50:11 Fix some Qt bugs, fix hildon-desktop, add portrait support Feb 12 22:50:19 GAN900, isn't that what the TSA calls a bomb? Feb 12 22:50:23 and then what Feb 12 22:50:27 indeed, though DocScrutinizer says it's not feasible Feb 12 22:50:29 if we won't have phone to use it Feb 12 22:50:41 the N900's still there jacekowski Feb 12 22:50:47 I imagine it'll be there for quite some time Feb 12 22:50:50 n900 is already obsolete Feb 12 22:50:55 johnx, I get the impression it could be a tablet. Feb 12 22:51:04 johnx: No, it is what DoE calls a bomb Feb 12 22:51:06 the N900 was obsolete from day 1 Feb 12 22:51:09 GAN900 / johnx: yeah, had to be careful not to say "my device" on international flights with n8x0 :P Feb 12 22:51:11 johnx, I don't think the timeline for the budget is that clear, either. Feb 12 22:51:26 is there an easy way to lock display brightness to custom level and disable the light sensor? Feb 12 22:51:26 MohammadAG: I never said it's not feasible Feb 12 22:51:35 jacekowski: to you maybe, but I'm still happy to use it .. And develop for it ... Feb 12 22:51:40 then you said it's hard to do :p Feb 12 22:51:48 MohammadAG: I said it's friggin impossible to make sure it's feature-complete Feb 12 22:51:55 alterego: how does it feel to develop on dead platform? Feb 12 22:52:02 rm_you: You could have just called it "my junk", fits n8x0 perfectly well =) Feb 12 22:52:07 lol Feb 12 22:52:10 jacekowski: quite good thanks .. Feb 12 22:52:12 MohammadAG: a braindead dialer can be written in 10 minutes Feb 12 22:52:12 at the time i loved the thing :P Feb 12 22:52:13 jacekowski, like it felt 12 months ago :P Feb 12 22:52:26 jacekowski, to develop on a dead platform things that can be used on future hardware? not too bad Feb 12 22:52:26 rm_you: rrrrriiiight!!!! Feb 12 22:52:32 DocScrutinizer, it can always be feature-complete Feb 12 22:52:39 jacekowski: it'll be dead to me when I stop using it, I couldn't give a crap about you continual negativity :P Feb 12 22:52:39 though Maemo 7 might be out the time that happens Feb 12 22:52:45 johnx: if there will be future hardware Feb 12 22:53:03 alterego: it's reality Feb 12 22:53:09 alterego: you are overly optimistic Feb 12 22:53:09 jacekowski, uhm. Are you predicting an end to smartphones? Feb 12 22:53:13 MohammadAG: It can't - unless you decompile and RE every single byte of original Feb 12 22:53:13 jacekowski: it's your reality ... Feb 12 22:53:19 jacekowski, the phone suddenly dies? Feb 12 22:53:28 jacekowski: to me the platform is still unsurpassed. Feb 12 22:53:46 alterego, in fact, it's so hot, it's on fire :D Feb 12 22:53:48 I'm still very happy with it, I don't dev for it but at least it's easy to hack if I want to Feb 12 22:53:49 Hell, I still write the occasional app for my Acorn Risc PC ... Feb 12 22:53:49 to me also Feb 12 22:53:52 * RST38h sighs and goes to sleep. The idiot box gods were merciful tonight and showed Imaginarium of Dr Parnassus Feb 12 22:54:09 g'night RST38h Feb 12 22:54:11 and there's more fun stuff available for n900 now than ever Feb 12 22:54:15 MohammadAG: nevertheless a Cdialer would be a really worthy project Feb 12 22:54:21 RST38h, 'night Feb 12 22:54:38 well, telepathy is still there Feb 12 22:54:42 I'm happy with the mediaplayer rewrite Feb 12 22:54:45 progressed a lot today :) Feb 12 22:54:47 and you can use telepathy as a backend Feb 12 22:54:53 or something Feb 12 22:54:55 and feature completeness against the original isn't the benchmark, our specs and what we need it to do are Feb 12 22:55:02 I think we should bring in ofono Feb 12 22:55:04 cant wait to see your new mediaplayer Feb 12 22:55:10 congrats MohammadAG Feb 12 22:55:19 you can see it now Feb 12 22:55:25 http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/mediaplayer Feb 12 22:55:36 MohammadAG: feature request - single click on/off fmtxd button on now playing screen Feb 12 22:55:51 keep in mind, development was stalled for a month Feb 12 22:56:01 jacekowski, hmm Feb 12 22:56:17 jacekowski: why should he do something for a dead platform? Feb 12 22:56:42 MohammadAG: see, Nokia MUST (rfc2119) provide e.g 911 dialing even without SIM. If I know and accept a Community-dialer doesn't support that, so what? Nobody can sue me for using a dialer that doesn't support 911 Feb 12 22:56:58 jacekowski: if you're so against developing for a "dead platform" why the f* are you asking for features? Feb 12 22:57:06 err, WHAT? Feb 12 22:57:17 the stock dialer doesn't call 911 without a sim? Feb 12 22:57:18 i'm not against Feb 12 22:57:25 i'm just asking how do you feel about it Feb 12 22:57:28 MohammadAG: no Feb 12 22:57:36 MohammadAG: you got it wrong Feb 12 22:57:42 ah k Feb 12 22:57:49 got it Feb 12 22:57:54 Making a bit of progress on Cell Broadcast but seem to have hit some snags Feb 12 22:57:58 Nokia has to provide the functionality, we don't Feb 12 22:58:05 heh emergency calls w/o a sim were dropped in germany some time ago... Feb 12 22:58:19 In the UK, that doesn't work either. Feb 12 23:01:02 Is anyone around who knows their carrier is sending cell broadcast messages? Feb 12 23:01:23 jonwil, how can I test? or look that up? Feb 12 23:01:27 I have no idea Feb 12 23:01:44 Or is there someone who knows how to dump data from lower down in the stack (i.e. capturing stuff going between the telephony stack and the modem)? Feb 12 23:02:31 jonwil: I'd test - ut tmo in the UK doesn't as I understand it, sorry. Feb 12 23:02:33 n Feb 12 23:02:34 b Feb 12 23:03:32 alterego, just wondering, are you still doing the video playback window? Cause video listing is now working Feb 12 23:04:20 btw, whats this about emergency calls? Is someone working on an alternative phone dialer? Feb 12 23:05:27 nice work with the mediaplayer everyone Feb 12 23:06:00 I thought I wont get any new updates/software for my phone but you proved me wrong with the SSU :) Feb 12 23:06:04 * MohammadAG needs to figure out how to tie QML code with Qt code Feb 12 23:06:38 MohammadAG: yeah, I'm still up for it. Feb 12 23:07:06 I'll look at it Monday Feb 12 23:08:00 http://i52.tinypic.com/30trrkn.jpg looks sexy, doesn't it? Feb 12 23:08:31 very nice :) Feb 12 23:08:47 i see nice mirror effect Feb 12 23:08:56 and other eyecandy stuff Feb 12 23:08:59 but, does it work? Feb 12 23:09:29 yes, not for playlists yet though Feb 12 23:09:50 try it Feb 12 23:10:47 again, http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/mediaplayer Feb 12 23:10:51 just wget, chmod +x, and run it Feb 12 23:11:41 where is the donate to mohammedg button? Feb 12 23:11:53 /dev/null at the moment :P Feb 12 23:11:53 put it right next to the "pause" button Feb 12 23:12:20 vi_: asked the same thing few hours ago :) Feb 12 23:12:32 meh, SLP has waaay too much blue, on page4 Feb 12 23:12:46 lol Feb 12 23:13:06 javispedro: moin Feb 12 23:13:15 moo Feb 12 23:13:24 javispedro: do *you* like blue? Feb 12 23:13:38 when you say meego is only suitable for devs what do you mean? Feb 12 23:13:48 DocScrutinizer: no? Feb 12 23:13:58 like there -> http://www.oss.kr/?module=file&act=procFileDownload&file_srl=1609&sid=96028cc2f522ec804ec973e9b92d5bd9 p4 Feb 12 23:14:01 it's not usable on a day to day basis Feb 12 23:14:08 or hour to hour basis tbh Feb 12 23:14:12 vi_, it's not finished and can't be used as a day-to-day OS yet, but if you're interested in hacking on it, it does run Feb 12 23:14:27 there's no phone daemon, so you can't accept calls unless you have the phone up started for example Feb 12 23:14:43 lolol Feb 12 23:14:53 app* Feb 12 23:14:56 bleh, nvm then Feb 12 23:15:11 * MohammadAG tries to persuade javispedro to join the maemo foss efforts Feb 12 23:15:19 PM is crap, or simply not existent yet, afaik Feb 12 23:15:20 vi_, yeah. thanks for the kind words and encouragement Feb 12 23:15:35 PowerManagement Feb 12 23:15:41 it does get rather warmish ... Feb 12 23:15:46 non existent yet Feb 12 23:15:53 yo all , any 1 help i seem to hae lost my email subscription Feb 12 23:15:57 locking the screen would be a great addition Feb 12 23:16:07 very interested in a meego/maemo hybrid though Feb 12 23:16:13 I tried to listen to something and make a basic daemon today Feb 12 23:16:24 something = dbus/sysfs/etc Feb 12 23:16:30 couldn't find anything about the lock switch Feb 12 23:16:40 hehehe Feb 12 23:16:52 check friggin sensorfw Feb 12 23:16:55 yo all , any 1 help i seem to have lost my email subscriptions , even thou it says im subscribed ! Feb 12 23:17:04 shouldn't that say something on dbus? Feb 12 23:17:18 Loveable_rouge, we saw the message the first time. Feb 12 23:17:22 alterego, any ideas how to add a glow effect? Feb 12 23:17:23 if it actually monitors the switch then yes Feb 12 23:17:34 then it doesn't monitor the switch Feb 12 23:17:37 first was wrong !! Feb 12 23:17:38 or isn't running :P Feb 12 23:17:43 loveable wtf are you talking about? Feb 12 23:17:47 but maybe you just need to check all keycodes in inputX Feb 12 23:19:03 @vi_ maemotalk forums email subscriptions Feb 12 23:19:41 yeah, its totaly broken for me too Feb 12 23:21:11 any ideas why ? Feb 12 23:22:06 what's broken? Feb 12 23:23:32 I tried nitdroid but it seems like a dead project Feb 12 23:24:28 lg optimus 2x looks like nice hardware Feb 12 23:26:34 MohammadAG: actually lockswitch isn't related to kbd, so it's questionable if it shows up at all in /dev/inputN. Actually it's linked to a GPIO (watch syslog ;-D ) and I guess there needs to be some driver to provide the proper /sys node so you can check the state, wait for kevents, etc Feb 12 23:27:02 wait 30s, I'll get the right sysnode for you Feb 12 23:27:09 (in maemo, but...) Feb 12 23:28:12 $(cat /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/kb_lock/state) == open Feb 12 23:28:41 MohammadAG: $(cat /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/kb_lock/state) == closed ---> locksw engaged Feb 12 23:38:35 MohammadAG: I don't think this is a module.ko, so support has to be compiled into kernel. /sys path might have changed, but checking a bit in /sys should probably reveal something, or you need to fix the kernel buildtime config Feb 12 23:41:03 DocScrutinizer, I looked in all state files Feb 12 23:41:15 it wasn't there Feb 12 23:41:30 hmm Feb 12 23:41:54 dmesg doesn't show changes Feb 12 23:41:59 I checked all those, I know it's gpio :P Feb 12 23:42:01 can you patebin a find /sys -name state Feb 12 23:42:25 well, I'm not on MeeGo now Feb 12 23:42:30 %2520 <-- is this a space? Feb 12 23:42:47 meh, I guess they thoroughly screwed the kernel config Feb 12 23:42:54 oh Feb 12 23:43:01 found scrollback Feb 12 23:43:01 sec Feb 12 23:43:17 yes 2520 is a doubel encoded spacde Feb 12 23:43:18 http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=4h0VbbsA Feb 12 23:44:03 cool, thanks Feb 12 23:44:10 ummm not a single switch Feb 12 23:44:24 nor proxysensor, anything Feb 12 23:45:11 proximity is there Feb 12 23:45:26 I noticed changes from enabled to disabled when I covered it Feb 12 23:45:58 where? Feb 12 23:46:09 not in your pastebin Feb 12 23:46:17 I know Feb 12 23:46:24 I had a while true; do cat allthose; done Feb 12 23:46:32 odds are the path changed massively Feb 12 23:46:44 I think it's either Feb 12 23:46:48 one of these Feb 12 23:46:54 /sys/devices/platform/i2c_omap.1/i2c-1/1-004b/twl_reg.12/regulator/regulator.11/state Feb 12 23:46:54 /sys/devices/platform/i2c_omap.1/i2c-1/1-004b/twl_reg.13/regulator/regulator.12/state Feb 12 23:47:16 meh Feb 12 23:47:36 for sure not Feb 12 23:47:50 might be backlight regulator or whatever Feb 12 23:48:52 or meego kernel is so extremely messed up... :-S Feb 12 23:49:15 twl_reg.NN isn't GPIO, it's GAYA Feb 12 23:49:44 one (2) of the voltage regulators therein Feb 12 23:52:48 seems meego kernel really is weird Feb 12 23:55:28 nice looking ... http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/exclusive-nokias-windows-phone-7-concept-revealed/ Feb 12 23:55:43 Doesn't look like it has karl zeiss .. Feb 12 23:55:58 * SpeedEvil doesn't give a shit. Feb 12 23:56:10 * SpeedEvil wants a reasonable diameter lens. Feb 12 23:57:59 find /sys -name '*regulator*' Feb 12 23:57:59 /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-1/1-004b/twl4030_reg.3/regulator:regulator.0 Feb 12 23:57:59 /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-1/1-004b/twl4030_reg.17/regulator:regulator.1 Feb 12 23:57:59 /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-1/1-004b/twl4030_reg.18/regulator:regulator.2 Feb 12 23:57:59 /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-1/1-004b/twl4030_reg.19/regulator:regulator.3 Feb 12 23:58:00 ^^^that's maemo kernel Feb 12 23:58:01 no 12 regulators, at weird addr on i2c_omap.1/i2c-1/ Feb 12 23:58:01 that looks outright wrong Feb 12 23:58:24 might this be a config for some beagleboard or whatever? Feb 12 23:59:28 meh, now ^^^ that's the answer to vi__' Feb 12 23:59:32 s question Feb 13 00:00:28 meego, almost there. Next week we'd ship version 1.1¡ Feb 13 00:04:12 meego isn't dead? Feb 13 00:04:31 i've heard that partnership with Microsoft for the high range smart phones Feb 13 00:08:18 meego is a pile of sourcecode, it can't die. The question is who's keeping up the support and development for it, for which platform, on which level Feb 13 00:08:29 and who will care Feb 13 00:08:40 Intel will, of course Feb 13 00:08:43 if there are no devices for it, nobody will care. Feb 13 00:08:48 not for handset UX though Feb 13 00:08:53 then for netbooks? Feb 13 00:10:10 there's no such thing like a device for an OS. There's OS support for devices, and that's the question, as mentioned above Feb 13 00:10:48 we'll see Feb 13 00:10:52 to me it's dead right now. Feb 13 00:11:09 who will develop applications to an OS that is not sold in any device? Feb 13 00:11:16 nobody will. Feb 13 00:11:25 that's a much better way to put it Feb 13 00:11:36 and yes, I agree on that Feb 13 00:14:08 If there's a decent meego phone released, I'll at least port some code for it. Feb 13 00:15:10 DocScrutinizer: even though, I think Sc0rpius was trying to figure out for what devices does MeeGo will offer support for, putting the things the way you want it Feb 13 00:15:44 netbooks? tablets? Feb 13 00:15:54 obviously not for handset UX Feb 13 00:16:58 Intel is in tablet business aiui, then I heard some car manufacturer is planning to use meego for entertainment (dummy up the childs on backseat) Feb 13 00:17:11 the stock owners, mostly non technical guys seem to be right this time when punishing Nokia for lack of focus Feb 13 00:17:16 Does the fact that Microsoft is not pushing WP7 for tablets, combined with the mothballing of meego, mean that Nokia has no tablet ambitions at all anymore? Feb 13 00:17:33 Ken-Young: Microsoft has software for tables Feb 13 00:17:35 tablets Feb 13 00:17:52 blackthorne, But not WP7-based, as I understand it. Feb 13 00:18:01 actually they started long time ago, before Apple Feb 13 00:18:13 Ken-Young: it's enough to take out room for Nokia Feb 13 00:18:20 Elop said they'll ship a meego *device* in 2011. I suspect that'll be a tablet Feb 13 00:18:29 blackthorne, Aren't they pushing a derivative of regular Windoze for their tablets, though? Feb 13 00:18:53 Ken-Young: yes, that's why I don't see nothing good out of it for Nokia Feb 13 00:19:14 Nokia bet a lot with Qt, what are they going to do with it? Feb 13 00:19:21 i doubt they do anything with Qt Feb 13 00:19:27 DocScrutinizer, That would make sense, but since it just an experimental device for them, it still would mean Nokia has not real tablet ambitions. Feb 13 00:19:57 anyone here familiar w/ facebrick Feb 13 00:20:07 too much for experimental stuff... first it was Maemo, now MeeGo is just an experiment too? Feb 13 00:20:11 there's a decent possibility that qt will be released under a bsd licence Feb 13 00:20:32 ieatlint: currently it's LGPL, right? Feb 13 00:20:55 blackthorne, Beware of manufactures that release "developers' sneak peak" devices. Feb 13 00:21:14 i don't have the details of the actual sale of qt to nokia, but http://www.kde.org/community/whatiskde/kdefreeqt_announcement.php implies that they left an option for the kde foundation to release qt under a bsd licence Feb 13 00:21:30 blackthorne: it's not an experiment. It is a real project, a project now that Nokia will only be using for innovations and r&d. Feb 13 00:21:32 blackthorne: yes, it's LGPL and GPL for free i think Feb 13 00:21:54 ieatlint: but that was Trolltech property. KDE had anything to say about it? Feb 13 00:22:03 blackthorne: the platform is still under development and still has a good chance to be the future. Feb 13 00:22:04 alterego: you're kidding yourself... nokia is sidelining meego and cutting its budget massively Feb 13 00:22:21 blackthorne: dunno, that kde page certainly implies they do Feb 13 00:22:26 ieatlint: so? The project isn't run by Nokia ffs. Feb 13 00:22:27 ieatlint: who announced budget cuts for whatever? Feb 13 00:22:51 timeless: ++ Feb 13 00:22:56 uh, let me get the slide Feb 13 00:22:58 I've read that Symbian is still going to be used! So it's WM7, Symbian, MeeGo for Nokia? 2 of them have to go Feb 13 00:23:21 and when one of the two major partners of meego drops out, it takes a platform that would struggle for acceptance and subjigates it even more Feb 13 00:23:26 <_trine> what I want to know is,, is the channel name going to change to microgo Feb 13 00:23:32 blackthorne: you missed s40 Feb 13 00:23:36 ieatlint: hasn't happened yet, and people have been saying that will happen after the first meego device is released. Feb 13 00:23:39 Meego is producing one more device withnokia. Feb 13 00:23:40 talking about the smart phones Feb 13 00:23:49 They've committed to. Feb 13 00:23:54 SpeedEvil: no, we're producing *one* device Feb 13 00:23:59 SpeedEvil: they committed to meego as their major platform too Feb 13 00:24:07 we (MeeGo) have produced *zero* devices to date Feb 13 00:24:16 timeless: Err - yes Feb 13 00:24:19 our previous incarnation (Maemo) produced one phone :) Feb 13 00:24:25 the n9 is cancelled, nokia has decided meego will not be a major platform for them... they did say they would produce a device, but i wouldn't count on it Feb 13 00:24:37 They also said it'd be a phone. Feb 13 00:24:45 That may have been a mis-statement in passing though. Feb 13 00:24:46 can companies sell phone kits without fcc/ce certification? Feb 13 00:24:52 SpeedEvil, Is that official? Feb 13 00:25:02 pupnik: in India or China perhaps? Feb 13 00:25:10 Ken-Young: It was announced at ~12:31 on the stream from nokia.com/news/ Feb 13 00:25:22 CE is self-certified ;p Feb 13 00:25:24 Ken-Young: I wasn't however recording it. Feb 13 00:25:34 CE can be self-certified - if you're sure of yourself. Feb 13 00:25:44 SpeedEvil, Well, that's a bit of good news, at least. Feb 13 00:25:45 SpeedEvil: the statements i saw just said a 'meego device' Feb 13 00:25:56 album view working in open source media player Feb 13 00:26:05 ieatlint: It wasn't in any of the statements I saw - it was during the QA Feb 13 00:26:05 http://www.nokia.com/press/press-releases/showpressrelease?newsid=1488004 Feb 13 00:26:07 when they said meego device I assumed slapping Nokia sticker on Lenovo Ideapad and doubling the price ;p Feb 13 00:26:20 > Nokia still plans to ship a MeeGo-related product later this year. Feb 13 00:26:21 yeah, what i read said just 'device' Feb 13 00:26:32 i don't see the use for netbook Os's Feb 13 00:26:32 'MeeGo-related product' Feb 13 00:26:44 meego stickers Feb 13 00:26:47 all of those words are key Feb 13 00:27:02 It's a source CD. Feb 13 00:27:10 maybe they will produce stuffed meego animals Feb 13 00:27:14 Meh, anything Elop says is balls .. Feb 13 00:27:22 pavlov: with a usb port? :) Feb 13 00:27:28 nah Feb 13 00:27:33 meego branded boots? Feb 13 00:27:39 tyres! Feb 13 00:27:50 * SpeedEvil realises! Feb 13 00:27:54 Meego branded pink slips, for their programmers. Feb 13 00:27:55 I just want a freakin' t-shirt! Feb 13 00:28:09 i'm pretty sure i have a meego tshirt Feb 13 00:28:11 They've said they have the freedom to brand windows phone 7 as they like. Feb 13 00:28:12 i have no idea where it is Feb 13 00:28:22 * rm_you waves at timeless Feb 13 00:28:25 hi Feb 13 00:28:27 This means that the meego device will actually be a theme for windows phone. Feb 13 00:28:27 crazy times, eh :P Feb 13 00:28:32 so, i tried Facebrick Feb 13 00:28:35 it doesn't work Feb 13 00:28:40 lol Feb 13 00:28:43 anyway, no one should count on a nokia meego device ever hitting a retail store... it may happen, they've said it'll happen, but based on their statements, it wouldn't make financial sense to do so Feb 13 00:28:52 and i can't get the native facebook client to work either Feb 13 00:29:20 ieatlint: the 770..n810 didn't make financial sense Feb 13 00:29:25 that didn't stop us from shipping them Feb 13 00:29:25 i had some issues once with a weird version of the account integration library, had to apt-get upgrade manually to get it fixed Feb 13 00:29:35 the n810 wimax edition didn't either Feb 13 00:29:40 timeless: yeah, and they hired a new ceo to turn around their falling profits and eliminate things that didn't make sense Feb 13 00:29:42 I'm surprised facebrick became abandonware. THe developer seemed so enthusiastic, initially. Feb 13 00:29:44 we even shipped that Feb 13 00:29:47 <_trine> This could be more than the end of meego it could be the beginning of the end of Nokia Feb 13 00:29:48 looks like he's doing just that Feb 13 00:29:54 I dunno, this community has a lot of talent. They'd be very stupid to miss the opportunity. Feb 13 00:30:00 Ken-Young: oh, it's abandon-ware? shame Feb 13 00:30:05 But clearly they are stupid ... Feb 13 00:30:07 timeless, I think so. Feb 13 00:30:07 internetishard: please don't irc as root@ Feb 13 00:30:11 what can I do ahead of time to this android app I'm building to hasten portability to the nokia? Feb 13 00:30:13 SpeedEvil, what? Feb 13 00:30:21 timeless, I will if I want, sorry it bothers you. Feb 13 00:30:27 build it on the web Feb 13 00:30:38 SpeedEvil, so pretend the wp7 isn't actually wp7 but instead meego Feb 13 00:30:48 so, i tried Facebrick Feb 13 00:30:57 MohammadAG: yeah... Feb 13 00:30:58 it doesn't work Feb 13 00:31:03 MohammadAG: yeah... Feb 13 00:31:03 facebook fucked up their API, libqfacebook was broken Feb 13 00:31:14 and it was broken more than once, so I guess the dev got fed up Feb 13 00:31:28 MohammadAG: does that explain why the native client doesn't work? Feb 13 00:31:32 facebrick gives an error parsing a feed Feb 13 00:31:40 what native client? Feb 13 00:31:53 i have a VoIP account option for Facebook Feb 13 00:32:10 you mean Chat? Feb 13 00:32:10 is that not native? Feb 13 00:32:49 i guess? Feb 13 00:32:50 if you're talking about chat, I just signed in Feb 13 00:33:00 seems to be working fine Feb 13 00:33:02 yes, there is a base facebook client that shipped with the device Feb 13 00:33:07 i havent tried it in a while Feb 13 00:33:09 let me check Feb 13 00:33:23 that's just jabber with an icon on top Feb 13 00:33:34 alterego: bleh, finally found it.. http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/rip-symbian/ Feb 13 00:33:39 it was added when facebook exported their chat servers via jabber Feb 13 00:33:48 that page has a slide that visualises their future meego r&d spending Feb 13 00:33:54 no, there's another one, that has a home widget Feb 13 00:34:04 it's not numbers, but it's a very obvious clue as to what their plans are Feb 13 00:34:09 timeless: wait wait Feb 13 00:34:10 that works too rm_you Feb 13 00:34:37 timeless: you're saying meego devision of Nokia is planning to build a device with Nokia, right? Feb 13 00:34:40 and you can see the green "meego" block turn into a green too-small-for-text sliver Feb 13 00:35:03 DocScrutinizer: 'with nokia'? Feb 13 00:35:20 well, meego has no reflow street Feb 13 00:35:59 so I guess it's like with OM and FIC, one subdivision is ordering hw from another subdivision Feb 13 00:37:12 om? fic? Feb 13 00:37:12 anyway, key point of my question has been "YOU (meego division of Nokia) are building a device"? Feb 13 00:37:20 nevermind that Feb 13 00:37:28 http://eu.techcrunch.com/2011/02/12/intel-kept-in-the-dark-over-nokia%E2%80%99s-meego-plans-operators-reject-first-device/ also suggests that a meego phone by nokia could be announced at MWC just the same, and has a couple rumours about it Feb 13 00:37:29 well, that's what the press release said Feb 13 00:37:34 i have to trust it Feb 13 00:38:05 yeah, but press release didn't mention WHO is building the meego-related product Feb 13 00:38:05 intel made that same mistake ;p Feb 13 00:38:12 what can I do ahead of time to this android app I'm building to hasten portability to the nokia? Feb 13 00:38:18 hrm, it didn't... Feb 13 00:38:37 * timeless looks for evidence that MeeGo computers will build the meego-related product Feb 13 00:38:42 who inside the many subdivisions of Nokia... Feb 13 00:39:27 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:TseMbC8cpasJ:www.nokia.com/NOKIA_COM_1/Technology/pdf/Nokia_software_strategy_white_paper.pdf+site:www.nokia.com+meego+device&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com is amusing Feb 13 00:39:41 timeless: that'S what I'm asking. If it were meego branded rubber boots, then probably it weren't meego *computers* division to build it Feb 13 00:39:59 fair enough Feb 13 00:40:06 afaik we don't have a rubber boots division Feb 13 00:40:25 and i believe there's a legal agreement that says tires are to be built by nokian instead of nokia Feb 13 00:40:26 you know I'm not talking hard facts here :-) Feb 13 00:40:59 http://www.nokia.com/about-nokia/corporate-governance/group-executive-board/alberto-torres - DocScrutinizer Oops. Lost? Don't worry, it's not serious, but it looks like the page you've requested isn't available. Feb 13 00:41:11 but aiui the Nokia MeeGo subdivision is very phone-centric Feb 13 00:41:12 ... Feb 13 00:41:26 DocScrutinizer: we're very one product centric ;-) Feb 13 00:42:01 ok, this nokia searching stuff is hard Feb 13 00:42:17 i can't find proof that our one product is the one nokia plans to ship Feb 13 00:42:34 and was your focus changing massively regarding type of your product to build, recently? Feb 13 00:43:19 no Feb 13 00:43:28 ok, thanks. :-D Feb 13 00:43:45 yeah, i know nokia employees didn't get any real advanced warning Feb 13 00:43:58 sure we did, our family told us to read articles in the NYT! Feb 13 00:44:03 haha Feb 13 00:44:03 or WSJ! or WPost! Feb 13 00:44:07 yeah :9 Feb 13 00:44:09 :( Feb 13 00:44:33 plus, we got a twitter alert about two turkeys and an eagle! Feb 13 00:44:52 although, i doubt most of us had twitter alerts for turkeys or eagles... Feb 13 00:44:57 i wish everyone at nokia luck over the next few weeks when the pink slips start going out :( Feb 13 00:46:47 pink slips ? o.O Feb 13 00:46:56 (termination notices) Feb 13 00:48:08 heh, yeah, guess it's an americanism... it's based off notion that layoff notices are on pink slips of paper Feb 13 00:48:52 Like "green cards". Feb 13 00:49:11 like green mankini Feb 13 00:49:15 Ken-Young: green cards are actually pink Feb 13 00:49:17 haha, yeah.. not actually green Feb 13 00:49:35 and layoff notices aren't actually pink (typically, anyway) Feb 13 00:50:08 and borat really looks awesome in a green mankini Feb 13 00:50:31 we also call the title/certificate of ownership for a vehicle a "pink slip", oddly (also not typically pink) Feb 13 00:50:52 * timeless nods Feb 13 00:50:58 we're kinda funny about our colors Feb 13 00:51:07 got a pair of rose colored glasses? Feb 13 00:51:23 actually, i think the majority of finns here have pairs they could give up Feb 13 00:51:45 well, our drivers' licences here actually are pink (have been), but they are just caled cardboard Feb 13 00:51:54 * javispedro notes the lemmings have already forgot about how bad MS is now that the noksoft phone "concepts" are out, what with the engadget post having +2500 drools Feb 13 00:52:25 heh, all i can say is i went out today and bought an android phone Feb 13 00:52:37 Good evening guys and gals Feb 13 00:53:02 timeless: seems to me like they'll terribly need those rose colored glasses soonish Feb 13 00:53:26 ieatlint, Why the rush to abandon maemo - nothing works anymore poorly than it did last Thursday. Feb 13 00:54:12 javispedro: microkia, not noksoft Feb 13 00:54:24 Ken-Young: nothing works any better than it did a year ago really either... also, my mobile carrier had an awesome deal for this weekend, heh Feb 13 00:54:38 DocScrutinizer: hey, I love doing Nok* word games. DrNokSnes, remember? =) Feb 13 00:54:42 got a phone with a $499 retail price for $40 Feb 13 00:57:53 uhhhh, any bash pros around? Feb 13 00:58:13 mikki-kun: ask and find out :) Feb 13 00:58:35 i did switch my PS1 on my n900, and tried adding color, but that kind of killed it badly... Feb 13 00:58:37 They may be too bashful to respond. Feb 13 00:59:05 my PS1 is "\t \e[34m[-\e[32m\u\e[0m\e[34m-\e[0m\h \e[34m>\e[0m " Feb 13 00:59:52 and when i input there, when ssh'd to my n900 more that 113 chars it resets the line and starts writing at the beginning of the line, overwriting PS1 and what is typed before that Feb 13 01:00:58 hehe Feb 13 01:01:19 that's probably also libvte Feb 13 01:01:23 not bash Feb 13 01:02:13 I've seen similar oddities with xterm and bash on SHR & FR Feb 13 01:02:36 libvte? Feb 13 01:02:45 shr and fr is? :) Feb 13 01:02:56 mikki-kun: You have to surround the escape codes with \[ \] or the spacing gets screwed up. Feb 13 01:03:02 switching if colors is makeing the line work Feb 13 01:03:03 FreeRunner, Openmoko phone Feb 13 01:03:18 derf: i'll try :) Feb 13 01:03:49 ieatlint: actually, isn't community update coming along? that's something better than 1.3 Feb 13 01:03:55 derf: confirmed. that fixes it Feb 13 01:04:14 derf: so like this? "\t\[ \]\e[34m[-\e[32m\u\e[0m\e[34m-\e[0m\h\[ \]\e[34m>\[ \]\e[0m" Feb 13 01:04:25 "This video contains content from Al Jazeera. It is not available in your country. " Feb 13 01:04:33 what the fuck is wrong with Germany?? Feb 13 01:04:37 heh Feb 13 01:04:48 pupnik: possibly wwii consequences Feb 13 01:04:56 pupnik, o_O Feb 13 01:05:50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvk25tHonbk << can you see this? (al jazeera) Feb 13 01:05:54 this still exists http://www.youtube.com/user/aljazeeraenglish Feb 13 01:06:05 uh no Feb 13 01:06:13 silly stuff... Feb 13 01:06:14 timeless: not going to solve any of my big criticisms, or improve the hardware performance. i've been waiting for the n900's successor. i read friday's release to say that it may never happen, or at the very least, won't happen anytime soon Feb 13 01:06:36 my n900 is 15months old, and nothing has even been announced to replace it Feb 13 01:06:36 ieatlint: actually, i think you misread the release Feb 13 01:06:39 lemme look more carefully Feb 13 01:06:40 not waiting around any longer Feb 13 01:07:03 nox-: yes but the content is blocked here - Feb 13 01:07:06 > Nokia still plans to ship a MeeGo-related product later this year. Feb 13 01:07:08 no matter the wording, it doesn't announce any specific phone or give a release time other than "this year" Feb 13 01:07:09 * SpeedEvil passes timeless /dev/urandom. Feb 13 01:07:10 * javispedro waits for tracker to "deindex" 7000 pictures Feb 13 01:07:16 ieatlint: "this year" should be 2011 Feb 13 01:07:35 yes, but there's a good 10 months left of it Feb 13 01:07:40 all al jazeera youtubes seem to be censored in germany Feb 13 01:07:56 I'm personally happy for hardware to be at the end of the year. Feb 13 01:08:05 As I have a device in good condition. Feb 13 01:08:08 But... Feb 13 01:08:18 * javispedro thinks it'll probably be released by the end of the year Feb 13 01:08:30 pupnik, wtf Feb 13 01:08:37 dashavoo: ahhhh, i got it and thanks a lot for that \o/ Feb 13 01:08:40 my device is in good condition, but the warranty is gone, the device underpowered versus competitors, and the maps are a joke Feb 13 01:08:41 pupnik, this still runs from here: http://www.youtube.com/user/aljazeeraenglish Feb 13 01:09:03 anybody who wants to try it out: PS1="\t\[ \]\[\e[34m\][-\[\e[32m\]\u\[\e[34m\]-\[\e[0m\]\h\[ \]\[\e[34m\]>\[ \]\[\e[0m\]" Feb 13 01:09:07 just not the videos linked from it... Feb 13 01:09:33 * trumee__ is trying out nitdroid Feb 13 01:10:00 * trumee__ maybe will have to move to android someday Feb 13 01:10:28 irc client on android is rubbish Feb 13 01:10:35 xchat is much better Feb 13 01:10:39 android itself is rubbish =) Feb 13 01:11:02 trumee__: why not use ssh and screen for linux-based clients? Feb 13 01:11:12 nox-: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdnp3qvMFwU that one works Feb 13 01:11:32 i use znc on my desktop and connect to it using xchat Feb 13 01:11:43 pupnik, wtf is wrong with youtube... Feb 13 01:12:10 mikki-kun, no idea how to do nick completion on android Feb 13 01:13:51 no tab button? Feb 13 01:14:12 Get a galaxy tab. Feb 13 01:14:19 That must have a ta button. Feb 13 01:14:30 mikki-kun, cant find it Feb 13 01:14:45 Give me a list of 3 phones I should consider to use after I bash in the N8 with a sledgehammer Feb 13 01:14:53 yeah, i couldn't get the irc client for android to do anything useful Feb 13 01:14:56 i was hoping to test swype, but android market doesnt list it Feb 13 01:15:15 DrGrov: what did you have before the n8 Feb 13 01:15:21 and why in the world did you buy the n8? Feb 13 01:15:47 * jonwil wishes he could figure out why his cell broadcast SMS test code was broken Feb 13 01:15:57 timeless: I bought the N8 for the camera and multimedia stuff. Feb 13 01:16:11 * jonwil wishes he had a way to do a low level packet capture of the cell broadcast SMS packet being sent from the cell modem back to the AP side Feb 13 01:16:12 timeless: I had a N900, then a Samsung Galaxy 3 and then the N8. Feb 13 01:16:32 jonwil: maybe setup an own cell tower? Feb 13 01:16:51 DrGrov: you require 12mpix ? Feb 13 01:18:03 the cell broadcast SMS messages are being recieved Feb 13 01:18:05 timeless: It has served me well. No, not a new phone. 5 could even be enough. Now I am more into the actual phone. Feb 13 01:18:26 timeless: Not so much into the geeky stuff, surely I want geeky stuff but it is not the most important. Feb 13 01:18:34 what I need to figure out (by dumping the low level packets e.g.) is whether the issues with decoding them come from my test code Feb 13 01:18:44 or from the lower level code in libsms and libcsd-sms Feb 13 01:18:45 DrGrov: i presume you don't want/need a hardware keyboard Feb 13 01:19:06 you don't require hackable since you got the n8 Feb 13 01:19:12 * timeless would just get an iphone4 Feb 13 01:19:32 timeless: A hardware keyboard, physical keyboard. That makes things a whole lot easier though. Feb 13 01:19:54 timeless: Nah, not an iPhone. Do not want to become such a user. Feb 13 01:20:24 timeless: Other suggestions? Feb 13 01:20:44 If I wasnt a N900 user (and didnt care about hackable) I would choose the HTC Desire Z or Motorola Milestone Feb 13 01:20:55 i haven't heard good things about the milestone Feb 13 01:21:06 there's hackable and there's hackable Feb 13 01:21:09 if I didn't care about physical keyboard, one of the Galaxy S family would be my choice Feb 13 01:21:15 timeless: Would you suggest a HTC Legend or a HTC Desire HD? Feb 13 01:21:16 facebook app on android is nice Feb 13 01:21:23 I have a milestone Feb 13 01:21:27 trumee__: ooh, i should try that! Feb 13 01:21:32 * timeless wonders where the nitdroid n900 is Feb 13 01:21:38 trumee__: Yes, that is nice. My soon-to-be-wife got the Galaxy S. Feb 13 01:21:49 If you dont care about physical keyboard, the Galaxy S family are the best Android handsets out there Feb 13 01:22:18 jonwil: I am seriously getting upset again. Depressed also. Feb 13 01:22:40 why are you depressed Feb 13 01:22:42 ? Feb 13 01:22:45 I mean that again I am into my old habits of changing phone like it is my underwear. Feb 13 01:22:59 timeless, couldnt get youtube/flash to work though Feb 13 01:23:14 timeless, on nitdroid 0.0.9 Feb 13 01:23:25 oh, is there a way to upgrade nitdroid? Feb 13 01:23:33 does it auto offer/update? Feb 13 01:23:40 jonwil: That is why I am getting depressed. Feb 13 01:23:54 jonwil: Since I know that once I start changing phones I will not stop... :/ Feb 13 01:23:56 timeless, i dont think so. but i am not an expert Feb 13 01:25:11 closing apps on android is so unintuitive. Feb 13 01:25:46 hmmm, might post to the dev mailing list asking if anyone knows how to dump low level cellmo packets Feb 13 01:25:51 minimize app, then start task killer, then kill app Feb 13 01:25:57 don't close them then Feb 13 01:26:11 jonwil: You think I would benefit from changing back to the Galaxy 3 for the time being so I can get used to Android again before eventually buying something else? Feb 13 01:26:19 pupnik, wtf really? Feb 13 01:26:28 What was wrong with your N900? Feb 13 01:26:42 DrGrov: I'd suggest an HTC HD2 if you want hackable non-n900 phone, it runs Android very well, and can also run Meego and WM6.5, WP7, and Ubuntu, among other things in emulation. Feb 13 01:26:49 i have seen quite a few devices so far and the G2 and Nexus 1 look nice, as does Moto Defy (is a bit sturdy, at least from the looks) Feb 13 01:26:54 the point is you don't have to close apps Feb 13 01:27:32 EdLin: What are the prices on the HTC HD2 at the momen? Feb 13 01:27:33 nox-: well yes Feb 13 01:27:34 yeah the HTC HD2 seems to be the "little phone that could" Feb 13 01:27:44 but you shouldn't need to do that Feb 13 01:27:49 DrGrov: free on contract refurbished, t-mobile is retiring it. Feb 13 01:27:54 anybody played with the webos devices? pre looked pretty interesting a while back Feb 13 01:28:11 jonwil: well, i wish you the best of luck with hacking and have fun while doing so. i hope and am pretty sure you will be successful... maybe try it once while on a booze ^^ Feb 13 01:28:12 EdLin: Is it SIM unlocked? Feb 13 01:28:13 pupnik, and that when most)?) apps are java too? how much ram do androids usually have? :) Feb 13 01:28:16 DrGrov: if you want it without a contract, you can get it for a little over $200 on ebay. Feb 13 01:28:26 moving from maemo to webos would just be being awkward Feb 13 01:28:26 I dont drink alcohol :) Feb 13 01:28:30 EdLin: Ok, that is a reasonable price at least :) Feb 13 01:28:38 DrGrov: tmobile us will give you the unlock code after 40 days. Feb 13 01:28:48 What is the easiest way to get music on the Galaxy 3? Via memory card perhaps? Feb 13 01:28:49 I considered webos when I was shoping for my new phone but then HP bought Palm and I have blacklisted HP Feb 13 01:28:50 webos devices don't have landscape keyboard Feb 13 01:28:51 if you ask for it Feb 13 01:29:03 so I rejected webos Feb 13 01:29:10 what's bad about hp jonwil ? Feb 13 01:29:23 EdLin: Will it work in Europe as a 3G phone with HSPA/HSDPA capacity? Feb 13 01:29:24 their sauce Feb 13 01:29:37 DrGrov: no, for that you'll need to get a european hd2. Feb 13 01:29:43 Nitdroid rebooted my device!. Back in maemo and lovely xchat Feb 13 01:29:49 jonwil: maybe it would help once ^^ not saying it will, it might just give you an inspiration :) (i for one drink very rarely as well, maybe once every 6 months, if i find the time) Feb 13 01:29:56 How can I know which battery is for the Galaxy 3? I have 2 Samsung batteries which look scarely similar Feb 13 01:30:15 I get enough inspiration from the large quantities of Coca-Cola I consume :) Feb 13 01:30:19 DrGrov: no ID infos on them? Feb 13 01:30:37 jonwil: if you think so :) maybe switching to pepsi would help already XD Feb 13 01:30:40 mikki-kun: Ah yes, stupid me :) Perhaps too focused on disappointment :) Feb 13 01:30:51 coke > pepsi Feb 13 01:30:52 DrGrov: American 3g phones won't work in general on european 3g networks, except the n8 which is pentaband. Feb 13 01:30:53 :P Feb 13 01:31:06 DrGrov: no problem ^^ Feb 13 01:31:09 I think now it is time to really shut down the N8 and leave it in the shelf and get down and dirty with the Galaxy 3 Feb 13 01:31:10 I have spent quite a few nights since getting my N900 staying up until early in the AM drinking cola and trying to reverse engineer stuff Feb 13 01:31:46 EdLin: citation needed Feb 13 01:31:48 Memory card is the easiest way to get music onto the Galaxy 3? Feb 13 01:31:57 Don't drink Pepsi unless I have no other choice (i.e. when I am at KFC) Feb 13 01:32:12 jonwil: i know what you mean with either stuff for studies to do or browsing infos for how to hack my gentoo installs even nicer :) Feb 13 01:32:15 DocScrutinizer: T-Mobile uses AWS, AT&T mostly uses non-EU bands also. Feb 13 01:32:45 so that's no statement about phones, no? Feb 13 01:33:03 DocScrutinizer: phones don't usually support 3 different 3g schemes. Feb 13 01:33:13 mhm Feb 13 01:33:15 DocScrutinizer: it would make the radio too expensive. Feb 13 01:33:25 * jonwil is glad he is switching to a new carrier Feb 13 01:33:37 The old carrier is building a UMTS850 network Feb 13 01:33:39 jonwil: which one you switched to? Feb 13 01:33:41 DocScrutinizer: nokia did make a radio that supports all of them though, and put it in the n8. Feb 13 01:33:58 well I switched from Vodafone Australia to TPG Mobile (who are a reseller of Optus Australia) Feb 13 01:34:21 just waiting for my new SIM to be activated Feb 13 01:34:22 did anybody hear, nokia "sub-CEO" of usa got a kick and a Microsoft guy took over... Feb 13 01:34:28 and my number to be ported over Feb 13 01:34:42 then I will get an email and I will know to switch SIMs Feb 13 01:34:45 DrGrov: you mean this one? http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_i5800_galaxy_3-3395.php Feb 13 01:34:46 Damn this Feb 13 01:34:51 mikki-kun: that's the third former microsoft employee to take an executive position since elop took over, it's a coup, not a partnership. Feb 13 01:35:14 mikki-kun: Yes, that one Feb 13 01:35:45 EdLin: you know what my mind thinks: ":| let's go on a hunt for microsoft guys" Feb 13 01:35:55 lol Feb 13 01:35:58 DrGrov: the screen-size seems rather small Feb 13 01:36:05 DrGrov: 400x240?! Feb 13 01:36:31 EdLin: hey, i am a Finn and am highly offended by what is happening to Nokia -.- Feb 13 01:36:34 DrGrov: and tft from samsung? That's not exactly a high-end android phone. Feb 13 01:36:34 mikki-kun: I have it already actually. It is a phone I had as my 2nd phone Feb 13 01:36:53 EdLin: Read my last writing and you will understand Feb 13 01:37:06 and you don't want a low-end android phone, trust me on this, I had a cliq xt. Feb 13 01:37:07 EdLin: that all sounds correct, but is no facts. Obviously N900 can work with some US 3G networks. And afaik a lot of those supporting all US 3G bands at least support some rest-of-world bands as well, so will work with some e.g European carriers, just like the european phones work with some US carriers Feb 13 01:37:27 EdLin: I actually love the phone, not getting too used with it last time though. Feb 13 01:37:35 DocScrutinizer: none support all US 3g bands.... Feb 13 01:37:35 The good news is that I found a few things out about the N900 cellmo stuff. Firstly I found out that the the SMS part of the N900 modem is using SMS isi interface version 5.1 (which is present in the documentation I have from www.wirelessmodemapi.com) Feb 13 01:37:38 except the n8. Feb 13 01:38:00 So how do I know which battery should go with the Galaxy 3? I have 2 different damn small Samsung batteries in front of me Feb 13 01:38:08 hello. Feb 13 01:38:09 Secondly I found out that the location stuff is using an ISI interface version NOT in the docs I have Feb 13 01:38:11 anyhow, the question was, does the American T-Mobile HD2 support european 3g? The answer to that is no. Feb 13 01:38:25 you have to get a European HD2. Feb 13 01:38:28 Is available to start maemo without /usr? Feb 13 01:38:39 DrGrov: I'd guess when it fits, it should work Feb 13 01:39:02 DocScrutinizer: Ok, it fits actually and says 1500mAh Feb 13 01:39:18 I mean that'd be utterly silly of Samsung to build two mechanically identical noncompatible batteries Feb 13 01:39:25 does here anybody have a sports-band for his n900? Feb 13 01:39:38 DocScrutinizer: The other battery is for my Samsung S5600 Feb 13 01:39:43 DocScrutinizer: there's more to tmobile US's AWS scheme than the bands, by the way, they use the bands differently than in the EU. Feb 13 01:39:43 Not sure it is the same though Feb 13 01:40:16 I'm trying to move my n810 /usr to mmcblk0p1 (internal mmc), but I want to know what to do if I make a mistake. Feb 13 01:40:20 And I gotta find the damn charger also from somewhere :D Feb 13 01:40:21 LOL Feb 13 01:40:58 Is there any rescue console for maemo? Feb 13 01:41:16 Eg. textmode, or something. Feb 13 01:41:26 EdLin: I just don't care. If I want to know if a phone works in EU, then I don't ask which carriers it accepts in US, I rather simply look at the device's specs Feb 13 01:41:53 otwieracz: uhhh, wait... /usr from your n810 to the n900? Feb 13 01:41:59 DocScrutinizer: if you don't care, why did you interfere in my answering a question someone else was asking? ;-) Feb 13 01:42:42 EdLin: if you can't read a short answer of me, why do you interfere with my mood? Feb 13 01:42:53 mikki-kun: no, no Feb 13 01:43:22 I need more space at / and I want to move /usr to mmcblk0p1. Feb 13 01:43:50 on the n810 or n900? for the n900 i can say from what i read it will render your device unbootable Feb 13 01:43:51 otwieracz: see Feb 13 01:43:55 ~optification Feb 13 01:43:55 extra, extra, read all about it, optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and ... Feb 13 01:44:03 n810 Feb 13 01:44:30 otwieracz: there are things in /usr that MUST be in / instead, Nokia messed it up Feb 13 01:44:50 http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2011/feb11/02-11partnership.mspx Feb 13 01:44:53 Qt doomed? Feb 13 01:44:59 duh N810 Feb 13 01:45:04 probably even worse Feb 13 01:45:12 luke-jr: Nokia is doomed too, look at all of the other mobile partnerships Microsoft made. Feb 13 01:45:24 XD Feb 13 01:45:28 Listen - I want to mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 at /usr Feb 13 01:45:34 from fstab. Feb 13 01:45:43 otwieracz: good luck. Feb 13 01:45:52 otwieracz: unless you're making your own OS… Feb 13 01:45:57 It makes difference? Feb 13 01:46:33 Probably it wouldn't there's no difference for apps - it's /usr anyway. Feb 13 01:46:56 otwieracz: Maemo won't boot if /usr isn't in the main rootfs Feb 13 01:47:28 So stupid. Feb 13 01:47:42 Any good reason for this? Feb 13 01:47:52 no reason would be a good reason by definition Feb 13 01:48:12 And any other ideas how to get more space at /? Feb 13 01:48:20 otwieracz: rm -rf / Feb 13 01:48:49 /dev/mtdblock4 249.5M 216.4M 33.1M 87% / Feb 13 01:48:52 EdLin: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk0p0 :) Feb 13 01:49:09 33mb, quite a few... Feb 13 01:49:23 mikki-kun: I prefer /dev/random, it makes the results more interesting Feb 13 01:49:27 for anyone trying this what i wrote... it will basically kill your device Feb 13 01:49:41 yeah, don't try this at home kids Feb 13 01:49:42 EdLin: that will take ages... urandom is there a bit faster... Feb 13 01:50:15 EdLin: and random needs input from you, so move your mouse XD Feb 13 01:50:16 * jonwil wishes he could find a solitare game for his N900 Feb 13 01:50:30 jonwil: there is one Feb 13 01:50:30 random won't work fine. Feb 13 01:50:37 where? Feb 13 01:50:44 Cant find anything in HAM Feb 13 01:50:47 it's true random from input devices. Feb 13 01:50:49 under "games" Feb 13 01:50:55 urandom have entropy. Feb 13 01:51:30 jonwil: hrm, good question. i've seen it Feb 13 01:51:35 otwieracz: random takes your input as it's entropy pool.... if you make no input the pool is drained and no further input possible :) Feb 13 01:51:36 * timeless wonders why downloads can't find it Feb 13 01:52:41 mikki-kun: as I tell. Feb 13 01:52:55 maybe the solitare thing is only in -testing or -devel Feb 13 01:52:58 which I dont have enabled Feb 13 01:53:03 whatever, how to make more free space? Feb 13 01:54:11 anybody here using tmobile US's contractless $10/mo unlimited data service? Feb 13 01:54:39 budfive: i believe johnx is? Feb 13 01:54:59 i *was* on the plan but then when i got my own account they figured out i had a smartphone and switched me Feb 13 01:55:09 rm_you: ok Feb 13 01:55:29 rm_you: I was using that just fine, but they downgraded me to 200mb one fine day without telling me Feb 13 01:56:01 budfive: what? Feb 13 01:56:10 where do yuo see this service? Feb 13 01:56:11 ( Any good reason for this?) otwieracz: there are things in /usr that MUST be in / instead, Nokia messed it up --- what of this has been unclear? Feb 13 01:56:17 jonwil: Where in the world are you? Feb 13 01:56:25 jonwil: Oh - UK - I forgot Feb 13 01:56:27 Australia Feb 13 01:56:28 rm_you: they aren't saying anything about me using a smartphone, but are still refusing t o undo whatever they did. wondering if somebody knows something Feb 13 01:56:35 jonwil: Oh - somewhat out. Feb 13 01:56:54 luke-jr: up until very recently, tmobile's contractless service had a $10/mo unlimited data option for dumb phones Feb 13 01:57:04 budfive: i think i may have heard something a while back about them planning to cap their data service somehow Feb 13 01:57:07 oh, that's only with a voice plan though Feb 13 01:57:10 but assumed there would be warning Feb 13 01:57:40 DocScrutinizer: it will be in / Feb 13 01:58:03 * luke-jr struggles to maintain his effectively 10-USD-every-3-months-for-unlimited-data plan Feb 13 01:58:08 err, you said you want to move it? Feb 13 01:58:16 rm_you: I'm not completely sure. Really seems like somebody screwed up. I talked to the rep, who spent 20 minutes figuring out that whatever happened shouldn't have happened, but couldn't undo it Feb 13 01:58:24 otwieracz: please, stop playing stupid Feb 13 01:58:26 I like Australian mobile plans, they are so sane compared to what you get in say, the USA Feb 13 01:58:34 There will be /usr with the same files like previous. Feb 13 01:58:48 budfive: yeah, I hate how mistakes can't be undone at TMo Feb 13 01:58:58 they screwed up my last SIM card, so I had to pay for a replacement Feb 13 01:59:04 they wouldn't even waive the cost of the new one Feb 13 01:59:09 luke-jr: seemed like the 20 minutes was wasted, since he couldn't do anything anyway Feb 13 01:59:21 luke-jr: what service are you using? Feb 13 01:59:26 /usr will be mountpoint. Feb 13 01:59:31 there will be NOT, unless I misunderstood you want to move and mount it, which obviously means there's a state before mounting where it's not in / Feb 13 02:00:02 and init scripts need things from /usr prior to you getting to moint it Feb 13 02:01:13 before rootfs is mounted? Feb 13 02:01:19 (so before fstab) Feb 13 02:01:36 BINGO Feb 13 02:01:46 I found the ISI headers I wanted in the QT SDK download Feb 13 02:02:41 everything needed for that early stage isn't in initfs? Feb 13 02:03:07 budfive: T-Mobile Feb 13 02:03:36 luke-jr: what's your $10/3months scheme? Feb 13 02:04:20 budfive: Sidekick plan. Allowed to have the daily fee expire with 1 minute remaining, then refilled before the 1 minute expires. Feb 13 02:04:49 without the daily fee, texting and voice are prohibited, but not data Feb 13 02:05:06 luke-jr: hmmm. is that somethng that's long grandfathered? Feb 13 02:05:13 yeah, pretty much Feb 13 02:05:21 it's like $1/day + 15 cents/min Feb 13 02:05:48 hmm Feb 13 02:06:20 linuxrc looks quite interactive - boot options (mmc, usb), how to use it? Feb 13 02:06:39 otwieracz: no idea. I first didn't realize you were asking about diablo/N810. N900 has no initrd. I'd nevertheless guess you will run into problems on N810 as well Feb 13 02:07:01 otwieracz: serial console I guess Feb 13 02:07:11 (interactive) Feb 13 02:07:36 uhm... Feb 13 02:08:27 also NB that N900 init doesn't care about fstab, except for creating it fresh on every boot Feb 13 02:08:48 I wosh that there is no some hotkey and *poof*, I see console, not nokia logo. Feb 13 02:08:53 wish* Feb 13 02:09:34 alas that's not how it works. You need a fixture jig and a serial terminal Feb 13 02:10:02 to contact the testpoints under battery (on N810 I think they are beneath battery) Feb 13 02:10:49 bbl Feb 13 02:10:53 I saw. Feb 13 02:11:13 s/beneath/aside/ Feb 13 02:11:14 DocScrutinizer meant: to contact the testpoints under battery (on N810 I think they are aside battery) Feb 13 02:12:18 nah, under battery as well Feb 13 02:12:20 Goodnight. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Feb 13 02:59:56 2011