**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Feb 14 02:59:57 2011 Feb 14 04:03:07 orbital - halcyon Feb 14 07:01:43 MohammadAG: trying to git clone modest... http://dpaste.org/sjrv/ Feb 14 07:27:46 Morning Feb 14 07:29:40 Morning. Feb 14 07:31:23 Good morning :) Feb 14 07:35:04 I wouldn't go that far. Feb 14 07:48:56 mwc is today Feb 14 07:49:00 didn't know Feb 14 07:49:01 :) Feb 14 07:50:29 * SpeedEvil hopes for 7 new noksoft devices to be released. With a footnote that specs are available to download, and that you can port meego to them if you want. Feb 14 07:51:33 Mobile World Live Keynote Speaker: Feb 14 07:51:33 Steve Ballmer, CEO, Microsoft <<< Feb 14 07:51:39 at 4pm Feb 14 07:52:10 SpeedEvil, so maybe some software news but i doubt about hw for today Feb 14 07:53:29 Yeah. Feb 14 07:53:45 SpeedEvil, tommorrow it s Eric Schmidt, Chairman & CEO, Google Feb 14 08:01:23 SpeedEvil: hahaha yeah right Feb 14 08:01:24 :( Feb 14 08:06:11 SpeedEvil, do not believe too much Feb 14 08:11:03 are the colorful winphones going to be tegra based? Feb 14 08:22:52 meh, Asia didn't pull it. ASK 6.78 Feb 14 08:23:04 * DocScrutinizer waiting for NYSE Feb 14 08:23:50 ? see where nokia is? Feb 14 08:24:02 and they damn better anounce *anything* new today Feb 14 08:24:26 heh Feb 14 08:25:13 anything not directly M$ driven Feb 14 08:25:42 * lofty306 holds his eaars at the mention of that word Feb 14 08:27:05 which? Feb 14 08:27:16 layoffs? Feb 14 08:27:27 WP7? Feb 14 08:27:49 moo javispedro Feb 14 08:27:57 at M$ Feb 14 08:28:12 haha Feb 14 08:29:41 moo Feb 14 08:37:15 * lofty306 runs round like chicken with head cut off Feb 14 08:39:29 DocScrutinizer, the only live keynote today is ballmer Feb 14 08:40:02 DocScrutinizer, probably a monkey ballmer dance ... 'developpers, developpers, developpers ...' Feb 14 08:40:29 Personally Feb 14 08:40:38 be the monkey bit witha haha we got nokia bit prob Feb 14 08:40:38 I hope Windows Phone 7 is a major flop Feb 14 08:40:50 and that Android, IOS and Blackberry win the race Feb 14 08:40:52 http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=NOA3.DE&t=1d&l=on&z=l&q=l&c= Feb 14 08:40:53 khertan_: I said hope - I did not say expect. Feb 14 08:40:54 hum Feb 14 08:41:00 nearly at -3% Feb 14 08:41:30 SpeedEvil, i say do not expect too much or you ll be hardly disapointed :) Feb 14 08:42:14 khertan_: I hope that... - I expect that Ballmer will stand up and wibble about vision a lot. Feb 14 08:42:27 With nothing substantive revealed. Feb 14 08:43:01 one of our chancellors once said "if you've got visions, you should go see a doctor" Feb 14 08:43:06 morning Feb 14 08:44:28 ~dict hardly Feb 14 08:44:31 Dictionary 'hardly' (1 of 4): almost not; "he hardly ever goes fishing"; "he was hardly more than sixteen years old"; "they scarcely ever used the emergency generator" . Feb 14 08:49:31 http://dl.google.com/android/android-sdk_r09-linux_x86.tgz Feb 14 08:49:33 oups Feb 14 08:51:30 http://www.dailyfinance.com/company/microsoft-corporation/msft/nas/institutional-ownership Elop #8 for individual owners Feb 14 08:52:34 pupnik, everybody already talk about that ... :) some say #7 Feb 14 08:53:53 i think 8 may be more correct than 7 Feb 14 08:54:06 http://www.google.com/trends?q=elop there's something interesting on that page Feb 14 08:54:22 pupnik, win32.elop.trojan Is no more a zero day now Feb 14 08:55:48 http://www.google.com/trends?q=elop%2C+meego&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=1 Feb 14 08:56:00 nokia is listed as its own city? Feb 14 08:58:17 yeah HAHA Feb 14 08:58:30 cities: Nokia, Finland :-P Feb 14 08:58:53 theres a Nokia town in finland Feb 14 09:03:30 we only got a Siemens street (actually a few of them I guess), Siemens town is just unofficial for Erlangen Feb 14 09:04:04 hah Feb 14 09:08:46 I wonder how long they keep phones on their shop usually, like N900 http://shop.nokia.de/nokia-de/product.aspx?sku=6958534 Feb 14 09:09:37 im in th eus its gone off the shop Feb 14 09:09:41 the us Feb 14 09:11:41 meh, I'm too stupid Feb 14 09:12:02 ?/ Feb 14 09:12:16 (opm Feb 14 09:13:53 DocScrutinizer: they have the english keyboard in the picture - sourced from nokia.co.uk shop Feb 14 09:14:26 pupnik: heh, funny Feb 14 09:15:31 tech. details >>Vollständige QWERTZ-Tastatur Feb 14 09:16:43 plus I'm rather sure they had a picture with qwertz some 18 months ago Feb 14 09:17:19 Have you heard anything about later models having better speakers? Feb 14 09:17:26 nope Feb 14 09:17:28 I've heard later models have more durable keyboards Feb 14 09:17:49 can't confirm it tho Feb 14 09:18:05 the keymat might be harder plastic Feb 14 09:18:29 seems my new keymats don't wear as easily as the original qwertz did Feb 14 09:19:32 can you order a engl/uk keymat somewhere DocScrutinizer ? Feb 14 09:19:51 it's not like qwertz keymat would like like my N810 :-D Feb 14 09:20:00 I did Feb 14 09:20:23 where ? Feb 14 09:20:27 saremi Feb 14 09:21:19 www.saremi-mobilfunk.de Feb 14 09:21:19 ty Feb 14 09:22:16 wow they sell a nokia n900 dummy phone Feb 14 09:22:25 s/like like/look like/ Feb 14 09:22:32 yup Feb 14 09:22:42 most probably quite worth it Feb 14 09:23:09 great store, thanks Feb 14 09:23:13 might come with keymat, slide mech, back cover, whatnot else Feb 14 09:23:46 nice honeypot too Feb 14 09:23:54 hehe Feb 14 09:31:09 URGH, ASK 6.74 Feb 14 09:34:00 meh Feb 14 09:34:23 * DocScrutinizer says byebye to his virtual cash invested in NOK Feb 14 09:34:35 morning Feb 14 09:34:52 so now is the time to buy nokia stock? :P Feb 14 09:34:59 if I had money, I would :P Feb 14 09:35:27 wait a moment, just going down further :-P Feb 14 09:35:44 how much has it fallen yet? Feb 14 09:36:02 DocScrutinizer: time to buy more then! :) Feb 14 09:36:12 wait until it's fixed at the bottom Feb 14 09:36:14 then buy a shitton Feb 14 09:36:39 as a matter of fact... Feb 14 09:36:44 buy 51% of nokia and kick elop's ass Feb 14 09:36:56 agreed Feb 14 09:37:15 somebody heard you :-D Feb 14 09:37:15 that might not be available on the market :) Feb 14 09:38:12 Even if every N900 owner kicked in every cent they had, it wouldn't be anywhere near enough for enough shares to actually be able to have any influence Feb 14 09:38:18 Everything's for sale for enough money... including te lives of people who disagree with that statement. Feb 14 09:39:54 hmmm, well I have the Cell Broadcast SMS and I can get ofono to correctly decode the test SMS from test-sms.c Feb 14 09:40:12 but I cant figure out exactly which bytes of my dumped SMS need to go where in order for ofono to decode it Feb 14 09:40:44 Lets read the ofono source code and see how it parses the CBS packet Feb 14 09:40:46 jonwil: wow Feb 14 09:40:49 wow what? Feb 14 09:41:22 now that everyone's disappointed, maybe we should find some insider who will give us the closed code Feb 14 09:41:26 wow for " I can get ofono to correctly decode", missed the rest Feb 14 09:41:43 just figured it out Feb 14 09:42:26 it seems to me sms-cb has a different format than usual sms-pp Feb 14 09:42:42 yes it does Feb 14 09:43:04 something like "up to 15 pages of 96" Feb 14 09:43:10 the point is that thanks to ofono we have code to correctly decode the SMS_GSM_CB_MESSAGE Feb 14 09:43:57 WOW, its displaying something Feb 14 09:44:01 jonwil: :) Feb 14 09:44:08 Its displaying "Victoria Feb 14 09:44:11 and I live in Victoria Park Feb 14 09:44:14 so it must be right Feb 14 09:44:19 Let me try with this other one Feb 14 09:44:26 Congrats! Feb 14 09:44:44 GSM_XY_MESSAGE always parsing like GSM_GARBAGE when focusing somewhere else :-D Feb 14 09:45:16 jonwil: I knew you'll get it :-D Feb 14 09:45:32 jonwil: you're always way too pessimistic Feb 14 09:45:39 OK, wtf. Feb 14 09:46:06 crashanddie: wazzup? your vodka frozen? Feb 14 09:46:12 crashanddie: ? Feb 14 09:46:19 this doesn't help us support it in userspace though Feb 14 09:46:20 I get a call, "Hi, I was told you were one of the stakeholders in a Call Centre Management server, you deal mainly with VoIP and SIP, correct?" Me: "err, correct". Feb 14 09:46:38 Then he goes "I'm selling some text recognition software, would you be interested in integrating it into your server?" Feb 14 09:46:48 Yay for video phones. Feb 14 09:48:06 I'm still trying to figure out how the fuck we're going to sell "VoIP Text Recognition" Feb 14 09:48:18 now it prints "Kensington" which is another suburb in my area Feb 14 09:48:19 jonwil: you ever checked all the friggin *.db if those SM CB maybe pile up there, and dbus signal is just a pointer to the new record? Feb 14 09:48:37 no, they definatly dont end up in any database Feb 14 09:48:58 jonwil: As to UI - how about a simple thingy that dumps it on stdout? Feb 14 09:49:07 for a start, at least. Feb 14 09:49:11 crashanddie: why didn't you just say no? Feb 14 09:49:13 so maybe they pile up in cmt storage and you need to pull? Feb 14 09:49:21 Venemo_N900, I never said yes ;) Feb 14 09:49:22 nope, they dont pile up in CMT storage Feb 14 09:49:30 crashanddie: :) Feb 14 09:49:40 hmm Feb 14 09:49:45 time for 12648430 ☕ Feb 14 09:49:48 I can confirm that I get the right data (or something resembling the right data) from packets sent between the cellmo and AP Feb 14 09:50:06 which is what I am dumping with tcpdump Feb 14 09:50:21 :nod: Feb 14 09:50:30 so do the dbus signals differ? Feb 14 09:50:36 I can confirm data gets passed to IncomingCBS Feb 14 09:50:47 Ah - so not really a possible sane solution, if you need tcpdump as yet Feb 14 09:50:53 all we need is to figure out why the data coming into IncomingCBS is bogus Feb 14 09:50:55 ...for Victora and Kensington? Feb 14 09:51:25 moo SpeedEvil Feb 14 09:51:30 oow Feb 14 09:53:45 time to test something in my old phone just to see what the actual cell tower names are Feb 14 09:55:23 Should be enough battery in this thing to get it to boot and display the cell tower name Feb 14 09:59:58 byebye apt, hope to see you soon infoboot Feb 14 10:00:56 well that was a bust, the phone didnt have enough battery to be usefull and give me a tower name Feb 14 10:01:06 and I cant be stuffed finding the charger :P Feb 14 10:01:44 Okay, I'm here. (courtesy of docscrutinizer) Feb 14 10:02:45 ok, looks like Victoria is the correct name (there seems to be a limit on the # of characters allowed for a cell broadcast SMS tower ID/name) Feb 14 10:03:06 On my new carrier that I only just switched to, the tower is called EastvicPark Feb 14 10:03:17 language is listed as en :) Feb 14 10:03:19 yes, that's treated somehat special afaik Feb 14 10:04:40 Sooo, gentlemen, what are today's news? Feb 14 10:05:01 well the latest news is that I can now dump any Cell Broadcast SMS that my carrier may send Feb 14 10:05:15 and then decode that message Feb 14 10:05:30 I can also decode any message someone else may dump Feb 14 10:13:47 is there a text editor for the N900? Feb 14 10:13:52 vi Feb 14 10:13:57 What more do you need? Feb 14 10:14:18 Oh - if you're one of these new-fangled types, there is vim. Feb 14 10:14:38 Heh Feb 14 10:14:51 emacs!!!!!!!1!1 Feb 14 10:16:02 mcedit ;-D Feb 14 10:16:26 KhtEditor Feb 14 10:16:55 http://khertan.net/khteditor Feb 14 10:16:55 :) Feb 14 10:19:18 khertan_: backported to diablo ? Feb 14 10:19:33 ah ... sorry ;) Feb 14 10:19:36 kerio: do u use emacs on nit ? Feb 14 10:19:43 does qt 4.7 run on Diablo ? Feb 14 10:19:44 no Feb 14 10:19:50 i use emacs on my laptop Feb 14 10:19:53 else i suggest PyGTKEditor Feb 14 10:19:53 same here Feb 14 10:19:53 :) Feb 14 10:20:09 i use leafpad, but it sucks :( Feb 14 10:20:24 i wish i can use a text editor which i can run grep in it Feb 14 10:20:36 vim Feb 14 10:20:37 :) Feb 14 10:20:47 jonwil: would you mind to toss over the exact tcpdump line, so I can send you some SM CB on chan 221 containing things like roughly 5543411365 Feb 14 10:20:59 I dont need any more SMS CB right now Feb 14 10:21:04 any more dumps that is Feb 14 10:21:06 :-S Feb 14 10:21:15 k Feb 14 10:21:21 khertan_: wasnt there gvim available ? Feb 14 10:21:43 so what's the channel your Victoria is sent in? Feb 14 10:21:58 khertan_: if you don't use 4.7 specific stuff, then you should be able to compile for N8x0 too Feb 14 10:22:15 50 Feb 14 10:22:24 sounds about correct Feb 14 10:22:26 all the cell broadcast cell tower ID messages I have send channel 50 Feb 14 10:22:26 Venemo_N900, i don't use specifics stuff Feb 14 10:22:37 but some stuff on 4.6 maemo5 was bugged Feb 14 10:22:47 like ? Feb 14 10:22:48 and ... it s python Feb 14 10:22:57 so i should test it one day Feb 14 10:22:58 khertan_: then it should work Feb 14 10:22:59 well, if you aren't interested in chan 221, ok Feb 14 10:23:15 khertan_: i can help to port it , if you add a grep plugin :) Feb 14 10:23:18 khertan_: I #if'd out the animation framework and it works Feb 14 10:54:26 honest question Feb 14 10:54:37 isn't today the day they shoiuld announce the N9? Feb 14 10:54:45 Maybe. Feb 14 10:55:09 Might even show up in Ballmers paw, running w7 Feb 14 10:55:24 I wouldnt expect it Feb 14 10:55:33 i am the nokia dev event Feb 14 10:56:03 MohammadAG: I do not expect the N9 to be launched anytime soon. Feb 14 10:56:06 *at the dev event Feb 14 10:56:25 well Feb 14 10:56:37 she just said there will be a big surprise this afternoon Feb 14 10:56:53 yet I wouldnt expect it to be the n9 Feb 14 10:56:58 Probably not. Feb 14 10:57:06 Any interesting news today? Feb 14 10:57:45 ah surprise is now Feb 14 10:57:45 free devices Feb 14 10:57:58 javispedro: are you there? Feb 14 10:58:39 javispedro: ooh, how'd you get to the event? Feb 14 10:59:04 and what are the freebies? Feb 14 10:59:06 * SpeedEvil ponders what the free devices are. Feb 14 10:59:13 W7 branded boots? Feb 14 10:59:22 SpeedEvil: Nokia N9 with WP7 :P Feb 14 10:59:57 * lofty306 shreeks and covers his ears Feb 14 10:59:59 * alterego will, from now on, call Nokia and Microsoft "The Empire". Feb 14 11:00:00 nokia e7 Feb 14 11:00:11 * lardman mow remembers why he gave up on Extras last time Feb 14 11:00:15 javispedro: you're f'cking kidding? sweet! Feb 14 11:00:17 Ah. Feb 14 11:00:21 run by an exx M$ exec Feb 14 11:00:21 javispedro: that's not news Feb 14 11:00:26 why lardman ? Feb 14 11:00:34 Venemo_N900: you got one for free last week? Feb 14 11:00:45 pupnik: because the people commenting on the packages are rather abrupt, rude even Feb 14 11:00:46 timeless: no Feb 14 11:01:01 well, then getting one for free this week would be news Feb 14 11:01:04 timeless: I saw an E7 a few months ago. N900 is superior to it Feb 14 11:01:05 lardman: yeah, can happen :/ Feb 14 11:01:26 we gave away n900s months after sales, e.g. at gnome and kde events iirc Feb 14 11:01:31 well what i read was thee is a meego device still in works weather n9 or tablet? Feb 14 11:01:42 who knows Feb 14 11:01:51 lofty306: s/weather/whether/ Feb 14 11:01:58 haha Feb 14 11:02:12 Venemo_N900: e7 looks beautiful, how is n900 superior? Feb 14 11:02:25 atleast im not typoing every other word today Feb 14 11:02:25 pupnik: non lame ui stack Feb 14 11:02:29 non lame applications Feb 14 11:02:42 pupnik: E7 looks nice and has a nice keybd Feb 14 11:02:43 non lame edges Feb 14 11:02:52 ehm, so no maemo for e7 eh Feb 14 11:02:56 the edges past where the screen slides up suck actually Feb 14 11:03:01 i used one recently Feb 14 11:03:09 they get in the way of typing? Feb 14 11:03:25 pupnik: E7 has lowres screen, slower cpu and worse camera afaik. Feb 14 11:03:30 oh, there's one nice thing about the e7 (and presumably any related things) Feb 14 11:03:55 if you type fn-5;fn-8;fn-5, it will search by phone lettering and find things like 'jukka' Feb 14 11:04:13 * timeless liked that feature Feb 14 11:04:15 * javispedro didn't get free device Feb 14 11:04:19 Jaffa, I see Feb 14 11:04:22 * timeless vaguely recalls asking about it in the past Feb 14 11:04:31 javispedro: :(, why not? Feb 14 11:04:33 javispedro: $10 if you get it booting meego. Feb 14 11:04:40 mostly because I sneaked in =) Feb 14 11:04:42 well if it had 800x480 and linux, i'd consider it Feb 14 11:04:45 So apparently they're shutting down the Tampere facility. Feb 14 11:04:57 alterego: good ridance Feb 14 11:05:13 hang down your head meee-goooo poor boy you're bound to die... Feb 14 11:05:16 either way, symbian device. wtf? Feb 14 11:05:18 http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/nokia-workers-walk-out-in-protest-20110211 Feb 14 11:05:19 hi there Feb 14 11:05:27 javispedro: "snuck" fwiw Feb 14 11:05:29 javispedro: It's the OS of the future! Feb 14 11:05:42 guys I get this stupid error: Feb 14 11:05:44 W: GPG error: http://repository.maemo.org fremantle Release: Couldn't access keyring: 'No such file or directory' Feb 14 11:05:54 do you know why? my sources.list is ok Feb 14 11:05:54 X-Fade: ping Feb 14 11:06:10 Of course, Nokia have to give away Symbian devices now ;-) Feb 14 11:06:16 Free N8s in London last week, IIRC Feb 14 11:06:40 * jonwil wouldn't use a N8 if someone PAID me to use it Feb 14 11:06:44 aren't there going to be a whole bunch of rather pissed off symbian users? Feb 14 11:06:44 Ah, probably bogus Feb 14 11:06:45 so that's how they plan to "sell" 150m in 2011 Feb 14 11:07:01 or irrate developers that were gearing up to catch two platforms w/ the one QT api? Feb 14 11:07:06 Jaffa: why does no one tell me this! :( Feb 14 11:07:23 jonwil: :D Feb 14 11:07:54 anyone go postal yet? Feb 14 11:07:56 i don't see where there is space for a cpu and battery on he E7 Feb 14 11:08:17 anyone? Feb 14 11:08:43 danuz: don't worry about that Feb 14 11:09:05 lardman: uhm why? is just a warning? Feb 14 11:09:06 danuz: your encryption key is not available to check the download, or something like that Feb 14 11:09:07 danuz: warning is not error Feb 14 11:09:09 yeah Feb 14 11:09:15 ok Feb 14 11:09:16 cool Feb 14 11:09:16 * javispedro fails to see known maemo faces Feb 14 11:09:22 :) Feb 14 11:09:32 thank you guys Feb 14 11:09:55 has there been a definite scrap announcement of the harmattan project? Feb 14 11:10:12 Good evening Feb 14 11:10:16 javispedro: any news about meego/maemo there? Feb 14 11:10:17 Good day I mean Feb 14 11:10:18 DrGrov: tjenis Feb 14 11:10:31 I finally got myself a new phone today Feb 14 11:10:35 nothing interesting yet Feb 14 11:10:38 I opted for the HTC Desire HD Feb 14 11:10:43 DrGrov: android? Feb 14 11:10:47 uhuh Feb 14 11:10:50 tybollt: Yes, android Feb 14 11:11:06 fwiw the little brother has the better screen - though Feb 14 11:11:10 so when you getting maemo running on it :) Feb 14 11:11:24 javispedro: have you been at Intel's stand yet? Feb 14 11:11:27 pupnik: I should get Maemo running on it? :D Feb 14 11:11:36 yeah Venemo, saw nothing Feb 14 11:11:45 will go back there after lunch Feb 14 11:11:53 How the hell do I charge the damn battery on this ? Feb 14 11:12:08 I tried plugging it into the wall socket and the cables but it seems like it is "dead".... Feb 14 11:12:12 DrGrov: plug the usb-cable? Feb 14 11:12:22 tybollt: Yes, I plugged the usb cable. Feb 14 11:12:30 tybollt: Put it in the wall and nothing, absolutely nothing. Feb 14 11:12:42 heh Feb 14 11:12:44 have you put a dead goat in the fridge and danced the voodo dance? Feb 14 11:12:57 tybollt: LOL Feb 14 11:13:05 * lofty306 hands DrGrov a hammer Feb 14 11:13:13 Does it usually take long before the phone actually starts charging? Feb 14 11:13:15 DrGrov: try your n900 charger to make sure it is not a DOA charger Feb 14 11:13:16 oh finally a known face Feb 14 11:13:26 tybollt: Don't have my N900 anymore Feb 14 11:13:42 tybollt: Can I use a Samsung Galaxy S charger? Feb 14 11:14:38 would be nice to have some sort of statement from Nokia about the direction of Meego Feb 14 11:15:08 DrGrov: sure you can Feb 14 11:15:14 long as it is microusb Feb 14 11:15:35 rthey all work if microusb Feb 14 11:15:40 lol http://www.devicemag.com/2011/02/14/mwc-2011-adobe-flash-10-2-on-handsets-soon/ Feb 14 11:15:58 tybollt: Ok, I will try Feb 14 11:16:01 lardman: didn't that already happen? But yeah, something concrete would be good .. Feb 14 11:16:38 alterego: well there was a generic overview saying that Meego would become some sort of research entity, but would be nice to know what sort, fot the employees as well as interested outsiders I'd have thought Feb 14 11:17:06 lardman: we have a statement Feb 14 11:17:10 http://www.slashgear.com/intel-meego-teaser-tips-mwc-2011-smartphone-tablet-reveal-13133115/ Feb 14 11:17:11 I would like Elop: "I'm a dickhead, MS ftw, we want to kill any chance of a real FOSS mobile platform. It's just too much to have 3 large contenders to pitch WP7 against." Feb 14 11:17:22 chem|st: you're a Nokian? Feb 14 11:17:50 lardman: no but elop said something about a market distracting meego device this year... Feb 14 11:18:05 hahaa Feb 14 11:18:07 chem|st: oh right, must have missed that bit Feb 14 11:18:11 Heh, "market distracting"? :/ Feb 14 11:18:17 chem|st: market distracting, what does that mean? Feb 14 11:18:23 You mean like "wtf is this scht!?" Feb 14 11:18:37 gets in the waay of wp777 Feb 14 11:18:43 err... Feb 14 11:18:44 lardman: The funny part was when Elop was saying "we" referring to Microsoft Feb 14 11:18:46 like "make them look that way while we all bugger off with M$ in the other"? Feb 14 11:18:47 seemingly they also gave out n8 Feb 14 11:18:53 alterego: no one knows yet what he means by "distracting" but he uses "distracting" and "meego" a lot in the very same sentences Feb 14 11:19:03 lardman: In some statement where he said that "we" give Nokia a lot of value Feb 14 11:19:19 ah lol Feb 14 11:19:23 alterego: have you seen http://www.msqt.org/ ? Feb 14 11:19:24 good catch, RST38h Feb 14 11:19:38 well tomorrow it is for the Intel reveal then according to that link Feb 14 11:19:41 afaiu will winMobile replace symbian and not the meego strategy Feb 14 11:19:46 lardman: Took me a few minutes trying to parse the sentence looking for some reasonable interpretation, but no, he definitely referred to MS as "we" Feb 14 11:20:01 chem|st, so why reduce meego budget Feb 14 11:20:04 ? Feb 14 11:20:32 khertan_: where is that stated? that's rumours isn't it? Feb 14 11:20:46 chem|st, no it was one of the graphics Feb 14 11:20:48 show Feb 14 11:20:51 not rumours Feb 14 11:21:14 link pls Feb 14 11:21:14 chem|st: not "distracting", "disrupting" Feb 14 11:21:14 chem|st: no, there was some investments webpage about it Feb 14 11:21:24 timeless: oh sorry... Feb 14 11:21:37 chem|st: the rest of the statement still holds :) Feb 14 11:21:40 X-Fade: have to pop out, but mBarcode is still blocked on mbarcode-plugin-ii; were you able to remove it from the repo? Any other ideas? Feb 14 11:21:50 but getting the right english word is somewhat important Feb 14 11:21:59 timeless: ain't gettin younger... Feb 14 11:22:11 chem|st, i m look for it Feb 14 11:22:36 timeless: sure but does not make that a difference in this case does it Feb 14 11:22:45 Vene Feb 14 11:22:52 urm .. meh .. Feb 14 11:22:59 they deface also the nokia.com web site Feb 14 11:23:01 ouch Feb 14 11:23:14 khertan_: eh? Feb 14 11:23:40 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/14/elop_not_an_ms_trojan/ <-- hmm Feb 14 11:24:13 timeless, nokia + ms :) Feb 14 11:24:31 khertan_: nokia's web site has always looked like crap Feb 14 11:24:36 at least now it isn't animated Feb 14 11:24:39 timeless, no it s worse now :) Feb 14 11:24:40 What might the problem? Feb 14 11:24:42 it's actually less crappy for it Feb 14 11:24:45 Not even the phone gets turned on Feb 14 11:25:07 you connect to nokia.com and the first thing you see is : Microsoft Feb 14 11:25:08 :) Feb 14 11:25:16 well place in the middle of the screen Feb 14 11:25:20 Good News Everyone. I am 100% sure that I can get Cell Broadcast SMS working. Feb 14 11:25:34 looking at E7 design... would make a good start for meego/harmattan but pls replace the touchscreen with a resistive one Feb 14 11:25:38 tybollt: You think the whole device is borked? Feb 14 11:25:59 chem|st, you were true ... i didn't found any source i can trust about reduce of Meego R&D Budget Feb 14 11:26:09 jonwil: is that a feature N900 doesn't have now? Feb 14 11:26:18 yep its not present in N900 Feb 14 11:26:33 khertan_: that's what I read... just rumours... and harmattan sounds like testing already... Feb 14 11:26:52 * chem|st thinks that there will be a harmattan device before any windows one Feb 14 11:27:03 What I am seeing with the IncomingCBS dbus signal is either that A.I am wiring up the dbus signal wrong or B.(and this is definatly possible based on what I see with IDA) there is a bug in the SMS code Feb 14 11:27:31 chem|st, of course ... Feb 14 11:27:35 jonwil: what is the purpose? Feb 14 11:27:58 jonwil: \o/ Feb 14 11:28:13 chem|st: purpose of SMS-CB? Feb 14 11:28:23 DocScrutinizer: yep... Feb 14 11:28:28 wikipedia "cell broadcast" Feb 14 11:28:34 never recieved on on other phones... Feb 14 11:28:57 maybe just because you never enabled the feature :-P Feb 14 11:29:35 * timeless remembers a McDonalds in downtown Prague that used SMS-CB Feb 14 11:30:01 heh, location based commercial sms-cb Feb 14 11:30:05 coooooolshit Feb 14 11:30:24 lol Feb 14 11:30:29 ok now I get it Feb 14 11:30:40 though it's designet to serve that purpose as well, I never heard of a real implementation Feb 14 11:30:44 I thought the other way round at first Feb 14 11:31:09 does it enable us to send BCs? Feb 14 11:31:20 or just receive? Feb 14 11:31:32 nobody ever enables you to *send* SM CB Feb 14 11:31:50 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/14/nokia_mwc_investor_assurances/ <-- hehe Feb 14 11:31:54 it's a one-to-many broadcast BTS-originated Feb 14 11:31:56 http://mxr.meego.com wtf??? Feb 14 11:32:11 wtf wtf? Feb 14 11:32:18 down? Feb 14 11:32:26 rmrfchik: jebba got annoyed Feb 14 11:32:26 check it out Feb 14 11:32:29 new? up? good? porn? Feb 14 11:32:34 meh Feb 14 11:32:36 porn Feb 14 11:32:42 soft porn Feb 14 11:32:56 WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHURHJ!!! Feb 14 11:33:00 i consider this hard pr0n Feb 14 11:33:16 rmrfchik: IBM or Oracle might be hard porn Feb 14 11:33:16 <_berto_> rmrfchik: wtf is that? Feb 14 11:33:28 _berto_: it's supposed to be like mxr.maemo.org Feb 14 11:33:31 _berto_: you tell me ;) Feb 14 11:33:33 but for meego.com Feb 14 11:33:39 but its' currently making a statement Feb 14 11:33:40 <_berto_> ah yeah Feb 14 11:33:44 s/its'/it's/ Feb 14 11:33:45 timeless meant: but it's currently making a statement Feb 14 11:33:51 now THAT IS TOO MUCH, MICROSOFT!! Feb 14 11:34:10 namely: nokia moved on; and MeeGo hosting hasn't happened yet even though it was promised about half a year ago Feb 14 11:34:23 note: this isn't my statement, i have no control over it Feb 14 11:35:13 I bet intel and Linux foundation must feel pissed about THAT SHIT Feb 14 11:35:18 (the service you can't see because of the statement is mine, but as it's hosted by someone else, i'm at the mercy of him and he feels the need to make a statement) Feb 14 11:35:23 DocScrutinizer: i doubt it Feb 14 11:35:39 they control dns for meego.com, they could kill it if they cared Feb 14 11:35:55 they believe very few users visit the site and thus it isn't a priority Feb 14 11:36:07 so WHAT THE F*CK??!! Feb 14 11:36:47 M$ actively sabotaging meego now?= Feb 14 11:36:58 "it resembles Symbian circa 2001" Feb 14 11:37:04 hehe Feb 14 11:37:11 DocScrutinizer, you expected something else? Feb 14 11:37:13 DocScrutinizer: no, that was nokia Feb 14 11:37:34 DocScrutinizer: meego.com is supposed to be hosted @OSU Feb 14 11:37:35 you wanna get told something sweet or the truth? Feb 14 11:37:42 I lost my Nokia N900 in a taxi on vacation two weeks ago... Feb 14 11:37:44 but it was hosted mostly at some ISP Feb 14 11:37:51 Now I'm not sure I want a new one. Feb 14 11:37:54 and they were taking too long adding services Feb 14 11:38:09 so i arranged to get third party hosting and they agreed to provide a CNAME Feb 14 11:38:43 ACadambi: interesting host you've got there Feb 14 11:39:04 ?? Feb 14 11:39:09 timeless: ?? Feb 14 11:39:12 lol Feb 14 11:39:26 well, lemme tell you one thing. If ever I'd been interested in meego, and clicked THAT page, you know what happened to my notion about meego, you do, no? Feb 14 11:39:34 [13:38] == ACadambi [~ACadambi@inet-hqmc07-o.oracle.com] has joined #maemo Feb 14 11:39:39 ah.. Feb 14 11:40:00 timeless: not a crime, is it? Feb 14 11:40:05 DocScrutinizer: if i was ever interested in nokia or maemo and i ever clicked a link to either site, i'd have lost interest immediately Feb 14 11:40:09 ACadambi: close to... Feb 14 11:40:10 ACadambi: absolutely not :) Feb 14 11:40:17 ^^ Feb 14 11:40:21 ACadambi: i happen to like a number of their products Feb 14 11:40:31 and i respect their ability to convert losers into profit Feb 14 11:40:39 (something many others totally fail @) Feb 14 11:41:00 .oO(you arent looking at µsoft are you?!) Feb 14 11:41:00 timeless: so you are saying nokia would have been better off with Oracle? :p Feb 14 11:41:16 hehe Feb 14 11:41:18 lol Feb 14 11:41:24 sure Feb 14 11:41:26 ACadambi: i'd imagine that if oracle bought nokia, they'd have done something similar Feb 14 11:41:31 i.e. killed most of the groups Feb 14 11:41:34 noone would ever pay 2k for a smartphone... Feb 14 11:41:39 and found a path to make money Feb 14 11:41:43 they would of probably junked meego rite off Feb 14 11:41:51 especially for the cute embedded desktop Oracle has to offer :-D Feb 14 11:41:55 lofty306: s/rite/right/ Feb 14 11:42:15 thnx Feb 14 11:42:15 chem|st, few years ago most people wouldn't have paid 400e for a smartphone Feb 14 11:42:55 well, I happen to love my N900 and maemo...In hindsight, would have even paid more for the phone.. Feb 14 11:43:02 I'll never pay 4 cent for any M$ product Feb 14 11:43:06 yes Feb 14 11:43:12 i told myself i was buying a laptop Feb 14 11:43:15 unless needed for business with my customers Feb 14 11:43:54 ACadambi, well I payed 620eur for my n900 Feb 14 11:44:00 * DocScrutinizer still shuddering Feb 14 11:44:06 bought it direct from nokia without an operator in between Feb 14 11:44:25 too much M$ impact in the early morning Feb 14 11:44:26 ruskie: you paid the "i'm a stupid european" tax :) Feb 14 11:44:34 timeless, lol... Feb 14 11:44:37 ruskie: I bought direct as well, but not at that price. Feb 14 11:44:43 ruskie: it's cheaper in USD :) Feb 14 11:44:45 * lofty306 hands DocScrutinizer some advil Feb 14 11:44:56 timeless, basically I don't mind paying taxes... ;) Feb 14 11:45:10 clearly Feb 14 11:45:23 * timeless heads out Feb 14 11:46:03 i bought in the store, new for 200eur Feb 14 11:46:05 * DocScrutinizer ponders adopting the habit to add 25% of Cuban Rum to his first 2..3 latte macciato Feb 14 11:46:18 http://mxr.meego.com omfg Feb 14 11:46:33 Arkenoi, yup Feb 14 11:46:35 yep Feb 14 11:46:37 DO NOT CLICK THAT LINK! you'll regret it! Feb 14 11:46:58 timeless, also this was like the day they got them in stock here... Feb 14 11:47:56 * alterego clicks the link Feb 14 11:48:12 * Arkenoi fist smartphone was $1K+ Feb 14 11:48:21 I'm not getting anything. Feb 14 11:48:22 ruskie: don't worry, I payed as much, but some 3 months+ in advance Feb 14 11:48:35 alterego, ha Feb 14 11:48:47 mo moh! Feb 14 11:48:48 DocScrutinizer, ahhh I actually wanted to play with it first... Feb 14 11:49:23 managed to play with a demo unit that they got a couple of weeks before they had for sale stock Feb 14 11:49:31 and I liked it there and then... Feb 14 11:49:35 DocScrutinizer, morning Feb 14 11:49:46 Arkenoi: slowpoke detected Feb 14 11:50:07 MohammadAG: got breakfast? If so, don't click THAT LINK! Feb 14 11:50:17 hehehee Feb 14 11:50:23 if not, don't do it either :-P Feb 14 11:50:57 hi there Feb 14 11:50:58 alterego, maybe this'll help http://i55.tinypic.com/2ihtatl.jpg Feb 14 11:51:09 can you tell me how to recompile the power-kernel? Feb 14 11:51:17 I tried: Feb 14 11:51:41 alterego: congrats, you got a very nice crapfilter in your browser Feb 14 11:51:43 make EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 rx51_defconfig Feb 14 11:51:46 but I got errors Feb 14 11:51:50 when compiling Feb 14 11:51:58 DocScrutinizer, I already did :P Feb 14 11:52:10 I tried also: make EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 rx51power_defconfig Feb 14 11:52:13 it's a low move by MS Feb 14 11:52:39 :/ Feb 14 11:52:41 * DocScrutinizer hands MohammadAG a bucket with water and a cleaning rag Feb 14 11:52:51 How the fuck ... Feb 14 11:53:52 what did nokia have dns for it or something? Feb 14 11:55:50 ? Feb 14 11:55:59 deno, fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -b is the easiest way Feb 14 11:56:46 MohammadAG: I use, dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b Feb 14 11:56:48 :P Feb 14 11:56:59 uhm Feb 14 11:57:00 ok Feb 14 11:57:04 I'll try it thanks :) Feb 14 11:57:32 alterego, "-r" makes it longer :P Feb 14 11:57:37 DocScrutinizer: i think jebba just set back any trust in volunteers giving server space a year :) jebba has cocked it up for the rest of us Feb 14 11:58:04 I got this: dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: quilt sdk-fiasco-gen libncurses5-dev sharutils uboot-mkimage u-boot-for-power-kernel Feb 14 11:58:14 MohammadAG: it's "safer" :P Feb 14 11:58:17 what did jebba do? Feb 14 11:58:31 mxr.meego.com. 84865 IN CNAME mxr.moego.org. Feb 14 11:58:35 apt-get build-dep kernel-power Feb 14 11:58:55 MohammadAG, what is that command? Feb 14 11:59:02 I have modified a .c file of the kernel Feb 14 11:59:15 and now I want to compile it Feb 14 11:59:20 fetches build dependencies Feb 14 11:59:29 k Feb 14 11:59:59 actually Feb 14 12:00:09 put a fakeroot behind that command Feb 14 12:00:17 just to be sure Feb 14 12:00:40 next error: E: Build-Depends dependency for kernel-power cannot be satisfied because the package sdk-fiasco-gen cannot be found Feb 14 12:00:42 ah ok Feb 14 12:00:44 now I'll try it Feb 14 12:01:42 same error Feb 14 12:04:19 Domain Name:MOEGO.ORG Feb 14 12:04:20 Created On:19-Feb-2010 19:34:27 UTC Feb 14 12:04:23 it exists!! Feb 14 12:04:28 the tablet ux!!! Feb 14 12:04:34 ive played with it Feb 14 12:04:36 quite snappy Feb 14 12:04:38 Admin Name:Direct Privacy LTD Direct Privacy ID Feb 14 12:04:51 a bit different than the older meegos Feb 14 12:05:02 IP range is M$ though Feb 14 12:05:09 deno read sdk instructions Feb 14 12:05:16 * javispedro --> #meego Feb 14 12:05:34 infobot, maemosdk Feb 14 12:05:34 hmm... maemosdk is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation Feb 14 12:05:51 MohammadAG, I installed correctly Feb 14 12:06:23 you don't have the nokia-binaries repo Feb 14 12:06:48 uhm Feb 14 12:07:16 MohammadAG, yes I have them Feb 14 12:07:31 deb http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/mykey nokia-binaries Feb 14 12:09:33 damn it! I keep getting "Network connection error. Try again?" on my n900 for this crappy linksys AP. I can connect with my laptop (linux) but the n900 won't budge and it lacks iwconfig so I'm clueless as to how to make it connect manually. Feb 14 12:09:41 5~ Feb 14 12:10:23 Shapeshifter: anything good in dmesg? Feb 14 12:11:16 <_berto_> Shapeshifter: try changing the power saving settings on the n900 Feb 14 12:11:34 <_berto_> at least the N8x0 had issues with that IIRC Feb 14 12:11:36 BCMM: wl1251: down, wl1251: 151 tx blocks at 0x3b788, 25 rx blocks at 0x3a780, wl1251: firmware booted (Rev 4.0.4.3.7), wl1251: down <-- all this 3 times Feb 14 12:11:57 * DocScrutinizer idly wonders if jebba played a prank on meego, or if ARIN / M$ fscked jebba Feb 14 12:12:12 yeah, try powersaving, though in my experience that's more likely to manifest as random disconnections when idle rather than a failure to connect in the first place Feb 14 12:13:21 _berto_: trying now, although I know the n900 eats battery like hell without power saving wlan. I'm sure it's the crappy AP, since my laptop also sometimes fails to connect using netcfg, so I have to manually associate and dhcpcd and so on. I can get a super connection with my n900 to the free wlan from the hotel across the street >.> Feb 14 12:13:49 Shapeshifter: lacks iwconfig? Feb 14 12:13:59 Shapeshifter: for some reason, crappy APs love telling the n900 they can do power-saving when they can't Feb 14 12:14:29 i have iwconfig, do you need to fix your PATH? Feb 14 12:14:38 oh, where is it? Feb 14 12:14:41 <_berto_> Shapeshifter: at least try to see if that's the problem Feb 14 12:14:59 maemo is one of those distros that protects the normal user from accidentally discovering sbin... that always annoys me Feb 14 12:15:04 my N900 falls out of DHCP server in router all the time, though it keeps the local addr and seems fine on pings Feb 14 12:15:06 ah wait. yeah, dmesg says "ERROR Power save entry failed, giving up" Feb 14 12:15:07 Shapeshifter: /sbin/iwconfig Feb 14 12:15:32 Shapeshifter: congratulations, you have a router with a worse power-saving implementation than mine :) Feb 14 12:15:35 ...as long as your local ARP table has it Feb 14 12:15:39 Is there VNC server for maemo? Feb 14 12:15:50 now that's friggin weird Feb 14 12:15:52 Arkenoi: x11vnc Feb 14 12:16:13 Arkenoi: (that's for sharing the "real" display, not creating a wholy virtual desktop) Feb 14 12:16:18 <_berto_> Shapeshifter: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=245185&postcount=5 Feb 14 12:16:27 BCMM: this AP is total rubbish... Feb 14 12:16:37 BCMM: the admin interface needs minutes for anything to load Feb 14 12:16:59 Shapeshifter: what, *every* time? Feb 14 12:16:59 BCMM, well, better than nothing. It would be much more useful if i could run, say, messaging app to remote X server, but it does not seem to be possible :-( Feb 14 12:17:25 BCMM: yes, no matter what I do. And sometimes it starts telling my n900 that the wpa key is wrong and I have to enter it several times Feb 14 12:17:36 Shapeshifter: when mine does that, i just reboot it since that means someone has done something like configure a BT client stupidly and the connection tracking has eaten all the RAM and died Feb 14 12:18:29 Shapeshifter: wow, your AP sounds untrustworthy enough to constitute a fire risk... Feb 14 12:19:03 how aanoyiing Feb 14 12:19:26 Turned power saving off, still gives me the same error -.- It sometimes worked in the past btw. Feb 14 12:19:51 I'm still trying to reach the 'firmware upgrade' menu to see if there's a new version Feb 14 12:20:27 Shapeshifter: does the router have a way to turn off power-saving at its end? Feb 14 12:20:40 or a 3rd party firmware? Feb 14 12:20:49 no. I cannot choose much. channel and transmission standard Feb 14 12:20:52 also, how did you disable it for the n900? advanced edit of the network connection in systemsettings? Feb 14 12:21:10 http://login.icu.uzh.ch/~archer/linksys.png and this stuff Feb 14 12:21:22 BCMM: yes, exactly Feb 14 12:24:11 meh, newest firmware already Feb 14 12:26:12 uh, restarted n900, works first try Feb 14 12:26:42 btw, dmesg says Driver 'sd' needs updating - please use bus_type methods Feb 14 12:26:48 lazy nokia! Feb 14 12:28:26 they should've added BUG or similar. who spends time on fixing warnings? Feb 14 12:29:09 probably the powersaving setting didn't get saved properly or something Feb 14 12:29:25 since it still gave the error in dmesg even though I had it turned off Feb 14 12:32:01 Anybody know if there's a changelog for today's Community SSU update? Feb 14 12:35:53 what community ssu update? Feb 14 12:36:36 ~CSSU Feb 14 12:36:37 rumour has it, cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU Feb 14 12:37:33 Oli``: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=945974&postcount=605 - if you could update http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Changelog (if it hasn't already), that'd be *enormously* appreciated and an easy way of giving back to the developers Feb 14 12:37:53 Jaffa: thank you Feb 14 12:39:39 hmm interesting Feb 14 12:41:19 I should switch to that Feb 14 12:43:24 but I think I'd need to reflash the entire device for it to actually work effectively... I'm running with only a few MBs free on / for some reason... and haven't yet went exploring on what packge is abusing that(don't even know where to start with that)... Feb 14 12:44:58 Jaffa: http://www.mwkn.net/2011/07/download.html still contains "lead-in" at some point - i guess that's a placeholder crying for replacement? ;) Feb 14 12:45:18 ruskie: you could install the Faster Application Manager. It makes removing lots of things at once pretty simple and fast (rather than HAM's: remove, reload package list, remove, reload package list, pain) Feb 14 12:45:31 Jaffa: at the start of "Work to get cell broadcast messages working on N900" to be exact Feb 14 12:45:53 Oli``, my default use is apt-get ;) Feb 14 12:46:20 ruskie: probably where a lot of your / has gone then Feb 14 12:46:29 Oli``, nope Feb 14 12:46:37 since all the apt metadata is offloaded to the emmc Feb 14 12:47:07 I guess what I'd like to see from a community ssu is ability to have a small / and offload everything else to emmc... Feb 14 12:48:00 do you think i should be able to feed fake data to gps programs by writing nmea into /dev/pgps? Feb 14 12:48:30 Hi. every time I connect my phone to the network my phone slows down to an unusable crawl for roughly 2-3 minutes... what is a good way to debug what's going on in that time ? Feb 14 12:48:53 I see various things happening, like skype updating, apt doing downloading and gzipping (I'd like to turn that off), modest syncing, ... Feb 14 12:52:41 thp: Thanks Feb 14 12:54:16 thp: Grr, GAN900 replaced the '...' which is checked for with the text "lead-in" :-/ Feb 14 12:55:21 why this channel is still open ?!! ( just kidding....) Feb 14 12:55:22 thp: GAN900: Nope, it's more FUBAR than that. Feb 14 12:55:26 morning all Feb 14 12:57:28 http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/14/intel-shows-off-more-of-its-meego-tablet-ui-still-needs-lots-of/ Feb 14 12:58:14 cant i have the led blink on xchat messages? (n810) Feb 14 13:01:20 Jaffa, what's I do? Feb 14 13:04:58 GAN900: jonwil's article's weird Feb 14 13:05:21 thp: Should be fixed Feb 14 13:08:38 http://cdn.downloads.palm.com/sdkdownloads/1.4.5.465/sdkBinaries/palm-sdk_1.4.5-svn307799-sdk1457-pho465_i386.deb Feb 14 13:08:40 grrrrr Feb 14 13:08:43 sorry Feb 14 13:09:32 Heh, Feb 14 13:09:51 khertan: I see your trollin' :P Feb 14 13:10:00 my trollin ? about ? Feb 14 13:10:14 ah oh the wrong copy paste Feb 14 13:10:26 nope not a troll just a wrong copy paste Feb 14 13:12:50 khertan: I know, I was kidding :P Feb 14 13:13:30 i ve just update windows in the vm ... and now the vm didn't start anymore Feb 14 13:13:31 grr Feb 14 13:16:24 slowly making progress with some of my wishlist items Feb 14 13:18:08 Meanwhile: "A 22,000-member group for Saudis studying in the US on the social networking website Facebook has been split into two groups, one for women and one for men. The split follows a request from the group's female members who wanted extra privacy." Feb 14 13:19:42 http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175352/tomgram%3A_chase_madar%2C_the_trials_of_bradley_manning%2C_a_defense/ [ Why Bradley Manning Is a Patriot, Not a Criminal: An Opening Statement for the Defense of Private Manning ] Feb 14 13:19:57 If it turns out that the bug in the SMS code that I suspect is there does turn out to be there, the way it would need to be fixed is to write some new code (either replacing the CBSMS code in csd-sms.so and possibly also libsms.so or replacing csd-sms.so and libsms.so completly) Feb 14 13:21:09 pupnik: "We appreciate your input. Now let us discuss: 25 years or 20 years?" Feb 14 13:23:54 RST38h: Is that the amount of time until we bother trying him for anything? Feb 14 13:24:23 derf: Depends on how likely we are to get a conviction Feb 14 13:25:03 jonwil: bug/ Feb 14 13:25:09 jonwil: ? Feb 14 13:25:36 I dont know whether the issue is that I am using the IncomingCBS signal wrong Feb 14 13:25:59 jonwil: Top tip for the future, btw - try having a single mailing list thread in which you talk about your SMS stuff rather than about 3 ;-). Makes pointing people to it from MWKN easier ;-) Feb 14 13:26:00 or whether there is a bug in the SMS stack Feb 14 13:26:10 ok :P) Feb 14 13:26:12 :P) Feb 14 13:26:14 :) Feb 14 13:27:06 well, i think it's something else Feb 14 13:27:14 because i've seen dbus function called Feb 14 13:27:15 RST38h: Ah, you _are_ Russian. Feb 14 13:27:35 You understand how this works. Feb 14 13:28:05 I can confirm that the dbus call is triggered Feb 14 13:28:11 its a matter of whether we are talking to it properly Feb 14 13:28:23 derf: Get used to this stuff, looks like American justice department finally learned it Feb 14 13:28:46 jonwil: as in, you get something with dbus-monitor? Feb 14 13:28:53 yes Feb 14 13:29:04 I wrote a program to try and test that signal Feb 14 13:29:08 and I get data Feb 14 13:29:13 but not what I expect Feb 14 13:29:52 RST38h: They've always know it. What they learned from you is that it's more effective if you don't even pretend to hide what you're doing. Feb 14 13:29:56 jonwil: I asked that before, but... Do the dbus msgs differ for different SM CB? Feb 14 13:29:56 *known Feb 14 13:30:24 yes Feb 14 13:30:25 I dont know for sure, its confusing me Feb 14 13:32:01 jonwil: if you'd pastebin your cmdlines and results, that'd maybe help for others to participate and figure Feb 14 13:32:18 I posted what I have to the mailing list Feb 14 13:32:23 my dbus test stuff Feb 14 13:32:25 "When a friend is in trouble, don't annoy him by asking if there ia anything you can do. think up something appropriate and do it" -Edgar Watson Howe Feb 14 13:32:28 aah Feb 14 13:33:36 but yeah if my analysis with IDA is correct, we will likely need a replacement for all or part of libcsd-sms.so, libsms.so or both Feb 14 13:34:36 derf: Yeah, the time is right for it Feb 14 13:34:55 derf: In the age of social networks, people appreciate sincerety :) Feb 14 13:35:25 jonwil: which mail? which list? Feb 14 13:35:33 maemo-developer Feb 14 13:37:10 sorry can't find anything showing actual output of dbus-monitor, nor tcpdump nor anything else, incl commands used to produce those Feb 14 13:37:38 I posted a sample program that talks to the IncomingCBS signal (or tries to anyway) Feb 14 13:39:25 well, I'm not able to find anything. Given the relative amount of effort it takes to pastebin a few lines from shell, compared to the 10000 random entries in [maemo-devel] Feb 14 13:39:29 ... Feb 14 13:39:31 sorry Feb 14 13:44:00 DocBitter Feb 14 13:45:31 /me hopes stskeeps can convince the right people at Nokia to allow publication of some of the packages and info I need to properly and completly implement sms-cb without needing to find an ARM guru to help me reverse engineer stuff (packages like csd-sms-dev, libisi-dev, libsms-dev and others) Feb 14 13:46:01 With just a handfull of headers and dev packages I could really bust things open for the Maemo N900 :P Feb 14 13:46:34 worst comes to worst we get a "no" or no response at all and we move on Feb 14 13:51:03 jonwil: you're asking for support and docs and... all the time, but you actually aren't really helpful in getting on same level as you are, by e.g. simply sharing a dbus-monitor output. It's extremely annoying to "RE" your anecdotes to imagine what you are just looking at Feb 14 13:51:32 My dbus command line is simply dbus-monitor --system | grep -i SMS Feb 14 13:52:31 fine, so if you add the output you got, somebody can actually pick up and reproduce, compare, try to help Feb 14 13:52:44 that wont help Feb 14 13:52:53 All my real findings are covered by the mail I sent titled "Progress on Cell Broadcast, testing and help needed" Feb 14 13:53:25 * DocScrutinizer shrugs Feb 14 13:58:50 SmartQ also switches to Android Feb 14 13:59:21 With piezoelectric touch screen too, so you can use nails Feb 14 14:26:39 yo all Feb 14 14:27:00 just wandering does any1 know what is wrong with the email system at maemo !! Feb 14 14:28:16 is it being switched to MS Exchange? Feb 14 14:29:28 no idea but y emails dont come any more , aint even had a reply from a mod Feb 14 14:29:39 ment my emails Feb 14 14:29:53 how did you get a maemo.org email address? Feb 14 14:33:30 when i make or reply to a post i used to get an email to say if there been a reply . . . they stopped working Feb 14 14:34:12 stevomanu: what do you talk about? maemo mailing lists? the maemo mail client? your @maemo.org mail address? Feb 14 14:34:51 spiritd: you have to follow that thread Feb 14 14:35:15 i think following doesn't happen automatically for like a year or so Feb 14 14:36:30 even new post i have follewed an select instant email Notification still nothing Feb 14 14:42:36 Found out the problem for the phone not starting Feb 14 14:42:48 There was a minor little plastic thing stuck in between the phone and battery LOL Feb 14 14:45:32 nobody cares DrGrov, take it to #android Feb 14 14:47:21 pupnik: Sure thing, I knew nobody cares so Feb 14 15:07:20 Yeaaah: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/14/mars500_landing/ Feb 14 15:07:49 martians!! Feb 14 15:08:25 Simulated martians! Feb 14 15:10:17 "The most difficult but the most interesting part of this psychological study of long flights is still ahead: the crew is now faced with another monotonous ‘interplanetary cruise’ without a highlight like the Mars landing to look forward to." Feb 14 15:10:33 you know, I would really look forward to a simulated Mars landing... Feb 14 15:22:37 Maybe we can use Stephen Elop for it. Feb 14 15:23:14 6.66 they're doomed now : http://identi.ca/notice/64466194 Feb 14 15:23:59 hi guys Feb 14 15:25:31 I have modified a .c file of the power kernel source and now I'm trying to recompile it but without success Feb 14 15:25:42 i tried: cp debian/rx51power_defconfig arch/arm/configs/ Feb 14 15:25:42 make EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 rx51power_defconfig Feb 14 15:25:42 make EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 bzImage Feb 14 15:25:50 but I got Feb 14 15:25:55 In file included from arch/arm/mach-omap2/pm.c:37: Feb 14 15:25:56 arch/arm/plat-omap/include/mach/pm.h:111:2: error: #error "Power management for this processor not implemented yet" Feb 14 15:25:56 make[1]: *** [arch/arm/mach-omap2/pm.o] Error 1 Feb 14 15:25:56 make: *** [arch/arm/mach-omap2] Error 2 Feb 14 15:26:16 I had also tried: make EXTRAVERSION=$(dpkg-parsechangelog | sed -ne 's/^Version: .*-maemo\(.*\)/.10power\1/p') rx51power_defconfig modules_prepare Feb 14 15:26:23 but same errors Feb 14 15:26:53 fakeroot apt-get build-dep kernel-power instead gives me: Feb 14 15:27:00 E: Build-Depends dependency for kernel-power cannot be satisfied because the package sdk-fiasco-gen cannot be found Feb 14 15:30:40 lol rzr Feb 14 15:30:58 this is not funny Feb 14 15:31:11 i would like to see your face if the beast ring your door Feb 14 15:32:43 my bill at Taco Bell is 6.66 regularly Feb 14 15:33:08 one time the cashier lady got so freaked out she gave me 10% off so the total would change Feb 14 15:33:10 rm, you're the pure evil Feb 14 15:33:15 lolol Feb 14 15:33:42 and now you always get the same waiting for another 10% discount? :D Feb 14 15:33:53 i would always get the same regardless Feb 14 15:34:52 if i recall correctly, it's "two cheesy gordita crunches, a 1/2lb beef&potato burrito, and a soda" Feb 14 15:35:03 just my usual Feb 14 15:35:22 happens a lot at other places too for me Feb 14 15:35:28 i think it's a confirmation bias thing Feb 14 15:35:41 * rzr rings the vatican Feb 14 15:35:43 it's equally probable given small purchases :P Feb 14 15:37:48 anyone? Feb 14 15:38:16 Taco Bell, interestingly, has only one menu item without wheat. Feb 14 15:40:02 GAN900: that would make my wife unhappy Feb 14 15:41:09 deno: what are you trying to achieve? Feb 14 15:42:57 lardman, I have modified a .c file Feb 14 15:43:06 I realise that, but why? Feb 14 15:43:13 because I have problems Feb 14 15:43:29 I get an error and I want to bypass it Feb 14 15:43:45 and the only way is to modify the kernel Feb 14 15:43:59 lardman, have you an idea of how to compile it? Feb 14 15:44:17 yes, but what is the error, it might well help us Feb 14 15:44:46 and more importantly what have you modified to stop it from compiling? Feb 14 15:44:57 is about high bandwidth transfers Feb 14 15:45:37 I modified just a /driver/ file Feb 14 15:45:58 so not the one that is causing the error? Feb 14 15:45:59 I think I gave the wrong command Feb 14 15:46:09 no I don't think so Feb 14 15:47:19 did you try a standard debian build? Feb 14 15:47:45 not sure what the EXTRAVERSION stuff is supposed to do Feb 14 15:47:46 are you saying: compile it without modify the files? Feb 14 15:48:07 Yep me too, I don't know exactly what is the exact command to put it Feb 14 15:48:39 I mean modify your driver, but then don;t bother moving the defconfig Feb 14 15:48:48 I guess you don;t need to alter the defconfig> Feb 14 15:48:49 ? Feb 14 15:49:14 uhm Feb 14 15:49:50 are you saying to do just the make EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 bzImage command? Feb 14 15:50:09 I've no clue where that EXTRAVERSION stuff comes from Feb 14 15:50:19 I'd just do "make nameofmydefconfig" Feb 14 15:51:13 I read the maemo-kernel file and there was written to use the EXTRAVERSION stuff.. but I'm not modifying the normal kernel image.. Feb 14 15:51:43 you're just trying to rebuild a driver on its own? Feb 14 15:53:11 lardman, both the ground beef and corn tortillas has flour filler. Feb 14 15:53:14 lardman, celiac? Feb 14 15:53:24 nah just wheat allergy Feb 14 15:53:43 mild, not anyphlaxis (sp?) Feb 14 15:54:41 uhm Feb 14 15:55:37 I have just eliminated something from this file: drivers/usb/musb/musb_host.c Feb 14 15:55:57 lardman, yeah, me too. Feb 14 15:56:06 and you're apparently not compiling it correctly Feb 14 15:56:28 GAN900: though I should probably keep that "mild" comment to myself, or face death ;) Feb 14 15:56:38 yep Feb 14 15:57:17 http://wiki.maemo.org/Compiling_the_kernel Feb 14 15:57:52 actually that page isn't very good Feb 14 15:57:59 uhm Feb 14 15:58:01 why not? Feb 14 15:58:04 I used it Feb 14 15:58:13 maybe it's that the cause Feb 14 15:58:14 what device is this btw? Feb 14 15:58:35 is the kinect Feb 14 15:58:46 ? Feb 14 15:58:50 What is that? Feb 14 15:58:50 a camera Feb 14 15:58:56 running Maemo? Feb 14 15:59:05 no Feb 14 15:59:10 lardman, hehe. Feb 14 15:59:13 I have to use the nokia with that Feb 14 15:59:29 which device are you trying to compile the kernel module for?> Feb 14 15:59:30 lardman, Microsoft Kinect. Feb 14 15:59:49 no, please, someone just say the name of a Nokia device Feb 14 16:00:19 I'm guessing the 770 in the absence of any other evidence Feb 14 16:00:22 n3310 Feb 14 16:00:22 ;) Feb 14 16:00:33 * lardman goes back to work Feb 14 16:00:42 :wave Feb 14 16:00:46 yep Feb 14 16:00:56 hello. its common, that eCoach does not activate gps by itself? Feb 14 16:01:02 hi all Feb 14 16:01:03 or a bug on my device? Feb 14 16:01:10 I am new user Feb 14 16:01:17 Hello Pitagora. Feb 14 16:01:39 sorry for my bed english Feb 14 16:01:45 deno: decide whether you're recompiling the whole kernel or just a module, I guess you'll need to compile the whole kernel if you modify the usb subsystem; look at what the debian/rules file does in your source deb, run the same command or just issue the standard dpkg-buildpackage commant Feb 14 16:01:54 I have got one question Feb 14 16:02:17 lardman, the standard dpkg-buildstuff command doesn't work :( Feb 14 16:02:43 deno: what does it do? Does it have that EXTRAVERSION stuff in it? Feb 14 16:03:05 I have got samsung galaxy S (android 2.2) can I install maemo on my phone? Feb 14 16:03:11 Pitagora: no. Feb 14 16:03:17 why? Feb 14 16:03:18 Pitagora: no, though Meego is wip Feb 14 16:03:47 lardman, I get this: E: Build-Depends dependency for kernel-power cannot be satisfied because the package sdk-fiasco-gen cannot be found Feb 14 16:04:06 remove that dep, or simply tell it to override the deps then Feb 14 16:04:33 uhm Feb 14 16:05:28 k I'll try to figure it out Feb 14 16:06:04 edit the control file to remove the dep, or just pass the right flag to dpkg-buildpackage to ignore the deps Feb 14 16:06:21 I can't remember it off the top of my head, but just run the command with -h and it will tell you the options Feb 14 16:06:32 kk Feb 14 16:06:55 lardman: what does mean wip? Feb 14 16:06:58 thank you mate Feb 14 16:07:12 work in progress Feb 14 16:08:44 Pitagora: are you a developer? Feb 14 16:09:02 lardman: thank you. When can I install this os on my phone? Feb 14 16:09:14 I take it not :) Feb 14 16:09:34 no idea, you'll have to keep track of the hummingbird page to see how things go Feb 14 16:09:45 I don't have one, I'm working on the Tab, though similar hw Feb 14 16:10:01 lardman: yes, I am developer Feb 14 16:10:39 flowers: check, chocolates: check, card: check, dinner: check Feb 14 16:10:45 * alterego drinks a beer Feb 14 16:11:12 alterego: not sure "drunk before wife/gf" gets home will earn you brownie points ;) Feb 14 16:11:24 Heh, Feb 14 16:11:27 oops, slight misquote, but you know what I mean :) Feb 14 16:11:30 I need it :P Feb 14 16:11:32 alterego: prepend list with 'shower' and append with 'sex'? Feb 14 16:11:43 luke-jr: hah :) Feb 14 16:11:52 assuming you're married Feb 14 16:11:55 s/append/interleave? Feb 14 16:12:02 No, not married. Feb 14 16:12:02 pah, you wish Feb 14 16:12:05 lardman: when can I install this os on my phone? Feb 14 16:12:17 Pitagora: see my response above, once it's working Feb 14 16:12:47 I'm going to meet her afterwork in a suit and tie :) Feb 14 16:12:53 With all the things. Feb 14 16:13:05 and drunk. :p Feb 14 16:13:11 alterego, this the one you were complaining about the other week? Feb 14 16:13:37 GAN900: he has more than one wife? ;) Feb 14 16:13:43 GAN900: yeah, Feb 14 16:13:52 I'm not married! Feb 14 16:14:39 ah ok :) Feb 14 16:15:29 alterego: good for you Feb 14 16:15:39 alterego: best decission you could have made Feb 14 16:16:02 I bought a bottle of champagne, but as my wife is pregnant went for a small bottle (she'll have a glass, so I'll have to finish the rest - hard life) Feb 14 16:16:03 lardman: why did you ask me if I am a developer? Feb 14 16:16:12 Pitagora: because then you could help finish it Feb 14 16:16:26 but small bottles of champagne are really quite expensive for what you get Feb 14 16:16:29 catch-22 Feb 14 16:17:14 lardman: I am interested Feb 14 16:17:44 Pitagora: are you a kernel hacker or have experience with low level Linux setup? Feb 14 16:17:48 lardman: is there a repo or a web site on internet Feb 14 16:18:01 trivia: aviation-certified sunlight-readable screens need 750-1000 NITs Feb 14 16:18:25 Pitagora: no, it's not that far, take a look at the hummingbird page on the meego wiki Feb 14 16:19:02 jacekowski: you mean, best mistake I've not yet made? :P Feb 14 16:20:50 that's horrible D: Feb 14 16:21:43 lardman: Congratulations to you & Mrs lardman, btw! Feb 14 16:21:49 I admit I don't share that jaundiced view of marriage either (yet... ;D ) Feb 14 16:21:52 Jaffa: thanks Feb 14 16:22:49 lardman: I have experience with low level Linux setup Feb 14 16:23:03 hi arack95 Feb 14 16:23:10 are you new user Feb 14 16:23:13 ^ Feb 14 16:23:13 ?* Feb 14 16:23:14 alterego, congrats. Feb 14 16:23:22 lardman, too. Feb 14 16:23:39 tutti quelli di pierotofy qui Feb 14 16:24:00 well have a chat to stroughtonsmith on #meego-arm as he is the chap doing the work on the Meego port; you'll need to get the mic2 buildsystem ready to go to build your own images, etc Feb 14 16:24:07 GAN900: thanks Feb 14 16:25:11 lardman: thanks Feb 14 16:26:49 Pitagora: hmm, perhaps he's working on the Nexus S, yeah, too many names with S in them Feb 14 16:26:51 http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Hummingbird Feb 14 16:27:13 anyway I guess it should be doable anyway on the Galaxy S, similar to the Galaxy Tab Feb 14 16:27:17 afaiu Feb 14 16:27:24 but prepare for some kernel hacking in that case Feb 14 16:27:42 I'd also scour xda developers to see if anyone else is working on porting e.g. Ubuntu Feb 14 16:28:25 lardman: i saw... Are you seeing a list of "What doesn't work"? xD Feb 14 16:28:45 am I seeing one, or would you like me to tell you? Feb 14 16:29:21 because the fundamental primary issue is that the only think that works is that one can perform a text based login Feb 14 16:29:34 other than that, everything needs to be sorted out Feb 14 16:29:58 including kernel patches to make the fb work for a graphical ui, hw acceleration, wifi, bt, etc, etc Feb 14 16:30:09 but other than that, all in good shape Feb 14 16:30:12 ;) Feb 14 16:30:46 other than that? Feb 14 16:30:48 loool Feb 14 16:31:01 Actually I think lilsteview may have a Galaxy S, ping him and ask, but same situation Feb 14 16:31:16 Pitagora: that's why I asked whether you were a developer Feb 14 16:32:50 lardman thanks Feb 14 16:32:58 np Feb 14 16:33:21 what does mean np? Feb 14 16:33:41 no problem Feb 14 16:34:01 ok asd Feb 14 16:34:03 bye Feb 14 16:34:45 I will return when the porting is complete! Feb 14 16:35:06 We may be underwater before then Feb 14 17:28:56 was there any hint of meego phone on mwc today? Feb 14 17:30:17 trumee: not that I am aware, tablets though :) Feb 14 17:30:29 alterego: thanks Feb 14 17:30:55 alterego: does nokia plan to show any meego phone in mwc at all? Feb 14 17:31:33 trumee: doubtful Feb 14 17:31:54 trumee: I imagine any MeeGo offering will be low key, like probably back to 770 days Feb 14 17:32:03 Probably not even an N series device .. Feb 14 17:32:10 alterego: thx Feb 14 17:32:14 I expect D-series :D Feb 14 17:36:02 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/14/nokia_some_of_our_features_are_missing/ Feb 14 17:36:12 enjoy Feb 14 17:42:42 hehe RST38h beat me to it... Feb 14 17:57:12 thp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZeDI0BsoBM looks awesome! congrats! Feb 14 17:58:40 andre__: wow, i want it! Feb 14 18:04:07 does anyone know where is the sdk-fiasco-gen package? Feb 14 18:05:24 http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/14/acer-iconia-smart-hands-on-video/ Feb 14 18:07:46 deno non-free Feb 14 18:08:17 I tried apt-get install sdk-fiasco-gen Feb 14 18:08:29 and apt-get install fiasco-gen but Feb 14 18:08:41 I got the E: Couldn't find package error Feb 14 18:09:05 deno you need the non-free repo Feb 14 18:10:16 uhm but the package's name is the sdk-fiasco-gen or just fiasco-gen Feb 14 18:10:46 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_sdk_non-free_armel/sdk-fiasco-gen/2.8.2.0.1+0m5/ Feb 14 18:10:53 ArGGu^^, I have it: deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ fremantle free non-free Feb 14 18:11:26 it seems to have missing dependencies :S Feb 14 18:11:50 uhm Feb 14 18:11:57 damn it Feb 14 18:12:03 so is it not possible to compile it? Feb 14 18:12:12 I'm just trying to compile the power kernel Feb 14 18:12:19 and I get this error Feb 14 18:12:21 :/ Feb 14 18:12:40 andre__: :) Feb 14 18:13:12 maybe it's a maemo bug: Kernel in PR1.1 build-depends on fiasco-gen which is Feb 14 18:13:12 nowhere to be found Feb 14 18:29:33 is there a way to make a dsc/changes file without actually building the deb? Feb 14 18:30:22 i need to fix a package but I don't want to have to setup scratchbox and all that stuff Feb 14 18:31:08 you can use autobuilder Feb 14 18:33:04 jacekowski, autobuilder requires you to have a dsc and changes file Feb 14 18:33:18 yes Feb 14 18:33:22 you can get them all Feb 14 18:33:34 hmm Feb 14 18:33:34 i have the original sure, Feb 14 18:33:37 no Feb 14 18:33:48 i can give you account on my server Feb 14 18:33:58 ooo Feb 14 18:34:00 with scratchbox and stuff Feb 14 18:34:05 * pahartik just noticed that "Fennec beta 4" does not honor system proxy settings of "Maemo fremantle" like "Fennec beta 3" did Feb 14 18:34:27 it should actually amount to a two line fix in libqtm-12-declarative Feb 14 18:35:32 query Feb 14 18:36:02 and what username do you want Feb 14 18:36:03 and password Feb 14 18:36:08 all on query Feb 14 18:51:48 hm, does anybody know how i can compile via g++ a very short script for my n900? (would be needed for tomorrow in classes for faster calculations) Feb 14 18:52:04 write it in python! Feb 14 18:52:13 kerio: i only know so far c++ Feb 14 18:52:46 is there a good python support on the n900? Feb 14 18:53:04 there's python Feb 14 18:53:18 lol Feb 14 18:53:29 thats like asking if cars support gasoline :p Feb 14 18:53:45 Gh0sty: some cars don't :) *pointing at EVs* Feb 14 18:53:47 you mean Cpython? Feb 14 18:53:59 fine - but without libs it's not very useful Feb 14 18:54:14 EV's ... an invention of stupid minds Feb 14 18:54:21 the way to go is hybrids Feb 14 18:54:46 are there libs to build graphical applications? Feb 14 18:55:06 even Feb 14 18:55:22 I did not read the documentation that well and I know there are :P Feb 14 18:55:47 thanks Feb 14 18:56:25 lots of gtk apps are written in python Feb 14 18:56:51 gtk is a language neutral library Feb 14 18:58:39 http://www.intomobile.com/2011/02/12/intel-to-pursue-meego-with-or-without-nokia/ Feb 14 18:58:46 that already been linked here? Feb 14 18:59:48 since DocScrutinizer is not here I will asume his role Feb 14 18:59:53 this is not #meego Feb 14 18:59:55 lol Feb 14 18:59:59 we dont care about meego Feb 14 18:59:59 etc Feb 14 19:00:31 but on a personal sidenote: poor nokia Feb 14 19:01:04 just read stome stuff about windows 7 Feb 14 19:01:08 what a shit Feb 14 19:01:18 you have to register with an live ID or something Feb 14 19:01:28 wat Feb 14 19:01:31 which sends all your phonebook, calendar etc etc towards the live server Feb 14 19:01:41 so all your private data belongs to microsoft :p Feb 14 19:01:49 fu microsoft Feb 14 19:02:03 oh and that functionality can not be disabled nor stopped Feb 14 19:02:14 sounds like My Nokia but worser Feb 14 19:02:20 sure, fariday cage around phones Feb 14 19:02:22 DONE Feb 14 19:02:28 lol Feb 14 19:02:43 Can't get me now Microsoft! Feb 14 19:02:55 or just don't buy WP7 phones :) Feb 14 19:03:01 wait Feb 14 19:03:03 I like my idea better Feb 14 19:03:09 Proteous: how does a faraday cage help there? Feb 14 19:03:22 will the few shipping symbian devices, and meego, have this as well? :( Feb 14 19:03:26 (if they come from nokia) Feb 14 19:03:28 how would microsoft get your information if your phone cannot speak Feb 14 19:03:30 MUHAHAHA Feb 14 19:04:08 and you could still play Snake on it or something Feb 14 19:04:16 I mean, why else do you use a phone for? Feb 14 19:05:07 Feb 14 19:05:09 FYI Feb 14 19:05:22 Proteous: "Faraday cages cannot block static and slowly varying magnetic fields, such as Earth's magnetic field (a compass will still work inside). To a large degree though, they also shield the interior from external electromagnetic radiation if the conductor is thick enough and any holes are significantly smaller than the radiation's wavelength." Feb 14 19:05:32 have fun making the mesh :) Feb 14 19:06:33 are you saying that it would be hard to make a material that would block the cellular radio? Feb 14 19:06:47 not hard, it might just take time :) Feb 14 19:07:00 well I wouldn't solder it together by hand after extruding my own wire :P Feb 14 19:07:16 i'm pretty sure cell phones do not function (as phones) in Tempest facilities Feb 14 19:08:04 at least not in the ones i've been in the phone got no signal Feb 14 19:09:09 i went to some meetings in tempest bunkers at Ft Gordon in Augusta GA on a contract for the us army signal corps Feb 14 19:09:15 they wouldn't be very goog tempest facilities if you could get a radio signal out Feb 14 19:09:26 s/goog/good/ Feb 14 19:09:26 Proteous meant: they wouldn't be very good tempest facilities if you could get a radio signal out Feb 14 19:09:48 that's kinda the point Feb 14 19:09:58 so where is my n9? Feb 14 19:10:04 in the mail Feb 14 19:10:09 just like I told you last week Feb 14 19:11:45 do you think nokia will unveil it at mwc? Feb 14 19:11:52 no Feb 14 19:11:54 vi_: vaporware? Feb 14 19:12:31 so m$ is now manufacturer .. Feb 14 19:13:11 ms can eat my ass, i just wantedc a mobile pocket computer phone Feb 14 19:13:42 I'm just waiting for a mobile pocket monkey phone Feb 14 19:13:47 someday... Feb 14 19:14:29 ms, be careful where you are shitting for you are shitting on my dreams Feb 14 19:17:17 mikki-kun: you made me look up the wavelengh of the standard cell phone frequencys: around 25cm Feb 14 19:17:38 ohnoes Feb 14 19:17:44 we actually made someone do smart things :p Feb 14 19:17:45 depening on your gsm... Feb 14 19:17:47 this channel is evil :) Feb 14 19:18:03 :P Feb 14 19:18:05 depending on what band ;) Feb 14 19:19:28 alterego: your users are moaning about media-IM status not working Feb 14 19:22:32 Proteous: 950 mhz has around 32 cm wavelength... 1900 is around 15.8cm wavelength... so yeah, depending on your hole-size it might work Feb 14 19:24:52 hole size of what? Feb 14 19:25:27 you gonna attach a 5/8 antenna to your n900 bro? Feb 14 19:25:51 for teh gainz to the max Feb 14 19:28:20 lol - the opposite.. a faradain cage for anything else but gsm as i understood Feb 14 19:29:29 faradain? Feb 14 19:29:32 WTF Feb 14 19:29:33 faraday Feb 14 19:29:50 but in controls you should give those things a sec-factor of 2.5 because of wave-modulations ;) Feb 14 19:32:29 Tscheesy: why wave-modulations? Feb 14 19:32:45 aliasing Feb 14 19:33:08 i assume we have a rather constant freq Feb 14 19:37:30 also take into account harmonics Feb 14 19:37:49 and frame dragging Feb 14 19:37:53 and red shift Feb 14 19:37:59 (trying to overflow somebodys mind until it says *pop*) Feb 14 19:38:12 :P Feb 14 19:38:40 I think just a think steel case would work great Feb 14 19:38:44 er, thin Feb 14 19:38:51 how about aluminium foil Feb 14 19:38:59 tinfoil hats anyone ? :P Feb 14 19:39:19 maybe in a double ply Feb 14 19:45:04 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzOKByRjR6U Feb 14 19:50:56 * pahartik finds out that "Fennec beta 4" does not honor "http_proxy" or https_proxy" environment variables either Feb 14 19:55:11 pahartik: no browser in its right mind would Feb 14 19:55:16 that's for scripts and console apps Feb 14 19:55:20 use about:config Feb 14 19:56:18 moin Feb 14 19:57:02 timeless: Oh, that seems to be available nowadays Feb 14 19:57:47 pahartik: it has been for ages Feb 14 19:59:24 timeless: "Chromium" paid attention to environment variables... "env http_proxy='http://[::1]:3128/' https_proxy='https://[::1]:3148/' /opt/chromium/chrome" Feb 14 20:01:06 timeless: I wonder about which variable it might be in "about:config" Feb 14 20:01:25 network.proxy.http Feb 14 20:01:30 network.proxy.http_port Feb 14 20:01:48 network.proxy.share_proxy_settings Feb 14 20:02:00 is the easiest tripple, iirc that'll more or less do what you need Feb 14 20:02:26 in the desktop browser, just write 'proxy' into the filter field, the names are fairly reasonable Feb 14 20:05:59 how long is maemo.org going to be in beta stage? :D Feb 14 20:06:10 forever? Feb 14 20:06:16 fair enough :) Feb 14 20:06:36 not more than that anyway Feb 14 20:06:59 duke nukem forever will be released sonner as maemo.org went final Feb 14 20:09:17 ThreeM: sounds realistical :P Feb 14 20:10:02 hi there Feb 14 20:10:04 I followed the instruction of http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43420 Feb 14 20:10:32 and download the fiasco-gen from https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7972 but Feb 14 20:10:33 Bug 7972: Kernel in PR1.1 build-depends on fiasco-gen which is nowhere to be found Feb 14 20:11:00 with fakeroot apt-get build-dep kernel-power Feb 14 20:11:00 I get: Build-Depends dependency for kernel-power cannot be satisfied because the package sdk-fiasco-gen cannot be found Feb 14 20:11:05 even if I have installed that package Feb 14 20:12:32 whooa, what a large number of community members! Feb 14 20:12:57 that's what she said Feb 14 20:13:01 er Feb 14 20:13:19 RST38h: so, the device is nice, the "tap-to-sync" stuff seems to work between the webos tablet and the phone (ms surface-style) and I could eventually get used to the keyboard Feb 14 20:13:24 would the n900 be suitable for cloning simcards? Feb 14 20:13:36 or is that part locked down? Feb 14 20:15:17 RST38h: however, the screen is, indeed, small. Even their tablet's screen seems comparatively small. Feb 14 20:15:27 Gyjf: closed Feb 14 20:15:37 ah :( Feb 14 20:15:43 javispedro: are you looking at the tiny pre3 or the midsized one? Feb 14 20:15:52 Gyjf: also for all I know you can not clone SIMs nowadays Feb 14 20:15:53 javispedro: I do feel like tap-to-sync is more of a gimmick Feb 14 20:15:58 i take it the whole gsm part is locked then? Feb 14 20:16:17 but you can transfer to new simcards Feb 14 20:16:26 javispedro: Check out Acer Iconia Smart Feb 14 20:16:33 Gyjf: sorry, you lost me Feb 14 20:16:46 pupnik_: pre3 is the larger, actually. "veer" is the smaller one. Since it is so small I could practically use it as wristwatch, I already discarded it. Feb 14 20:16:49 javispedro: 4.8" 1024x480 screen. Android though,if you can take it Feb 14 20:16:53 timeless: I set those variables, they were saved, I restarted but they still have no effect... And "network.proxy.share_proxy_settings" does not exist, so I did not set it Feb 14 20:16:56 stores have the ability to transfer a old card to a new one Feb 14 20:17:06 with whatever machine they use Feb 14 20:17:07 RST38h: ah, the "long" one. Feb 14 20:17:11 Gyjf: not really Feb 14 20:17:16 javispedro: it should be somewhere at the MWC Feb 14 20:17:17 pahartik: you also need to set proxy type Feb 14 20:17:20 i was just assuming they cloned it Feb 14 20:17:31 network.proxy.type Feb 14 20:17:31 maybe its just portions of the card? Feb 14 20:17:31 pre3 looks like a good device for someone who wants portrait-keyboard Feb 14 20:17:34 RST38h: yeah, think I saw it, but didn't like the weird proportion Feb 14 20:17:41 javispedro: Running Gingerbread on Qualcomm CPU (i.e. should not have the same performance issues as Streak) Feb 14 20:17:44 Gyjf: the machine they use informs the registrar server of your carrier about the new SIM Feb 14 20:17:52 you want <1> as your value fwiw Feb 14 20:17:53 javispedro: yea, photos of it look weird Feb 14 20:17:55 hmm Feb 14 20:18:07 pupnik_: or one-handed operation. Feb 14 20:18:13 that does make sense tho Feb 14 20:19:21 but afaik, everything you can read you can copy Feb 14 20:19:31 timeless: It is integer, but I do not know what it translates to Feb 14 20:19:38 so are some parts of the card ROM? Feb 14 20:19:42 [22:17] you want <1> as your value fwiw Feb 14 20:19:45 javispedro: are they open enough to make an angstrom / meer / meego image for the device? Feb 14 20:19:45 Gyjf: uhuh, copy what I think now! Feb 14 20:19:45 timeless: Oh, trying "1" then Feb 14 20:19:50 then there was that lg 3d headache inducing thing everyone was talking about, which, imho, is way overrated.. Feb 14 20:19:53 I am not a developer so I will ask those of you who are: Whould a desktop widget that shows the files in my documents folder with icons and thumbnails for images and such be hard to do? So if I touch a pdf it opens pdf viewer and so on. Kind of like kde has. Hope you understand what I mean. Feb 14 20:20:04 pahartik: fwiw, google is your friend, it'd take you to http://kb.mozillazine.org/Network.proxy.type Feb 14 20:20:16 Gyjf: you can not read the secret key in a SIM. That'S the point Feb 14 20:20:28 ok Feb 14 20:20:41 pupnik_: don't think anyone's tried, you'd probably find problems in cellular, and maybe gps or gfx. rest should be ok... Feb 14 20:20:43 Gyjf: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subscriber_Identity_Module Feb 14 20:20:44 timeless: Thank you, it worked now Feb 14 20:20:44 javispedro: Does itleave you with your eyes permanently crossed? =) Feb 14 20:21:22 the key is just used to sign some challenge, and the signed response is then checked at server if it's signed with correct key Feb 14 20:21:34 just like PGP Feb 14 20:21:37 aah Feb 14 20:21:49 RST38h: it has a slider so that you can set the amount of headache -- at the highest setting the best I can describe it is as "weirdly blurry". Feb 14 20:22:38 timeless: I suppose it is bug introduced by "Fennec beta 4", as system proxy settings were used by default in "Fennec beta 3" Feb 14 20:22:49 sivang, it must mean things are looking up! Feb 14 20:22:58 pahartik: what value was that last pref set to? Feb 14 20:23:14 * javispedro ponders if the guy at the booth got it that I was completely disliking the thing by the faces I was making. Feb 14 20:23:17 system proxy = 5 iiuc Feb 14 20:23:19 timeless: "5" Feb 14 20:23:25 GAN900: :) Feb 14 20:23:39 pahartik: sounds like system proxy isn't working properly... Feb 14 20:23:46 javispedro: another gimmick then. No sign of SLP? Feb 14 20:23:46 since 5 should have pulled them in.. Feb 14 20:23:47 "Full steam ahead!n Feb 14 20:23:50 * GAN900 coughs. Feb 14 20:23:51 so what are we doing here today? Feb 14 20:23:55 ;-) Feb 14 20:24:07 javispedro, MWC? Feb 14 20:24:11 Per_n900: i guess nobody knows - maybe search talk.maemo.org for desktop widgets Feb 14 20:24:26 RST38h: nope, samsung was all over android on the exhibition, and is tomorrow going to be all over bada for the devs (wtf?). no sign of slp. Feb 14 20:24:33 meh, SLP. Too much blue Feb 14 20:24:35 timeless: No, it worked before and I have not changed it Feb 14 20:24:45 GAN900: yep Feb 14 20:25:13 pahartik: from my perspective, system proxy = the system proxy, the settings for the system proxy, the glue to pull in the system proxy settings Feb 14 20:25:21 if it isn't working, any of those could be the failure point Feb 14 20:25:23 i don't care which Feb 14 20:25:45 javispedro, anything worthwhile? Feb 14 20:25:57 ACCESS also has completely forgotton about ALP, they only showed some stuff I did not exactly understand what was for, other than it was a browser and suicidal... Feb 14 20:26:44 GAN900: IMHO not, basically, loads of android clones. Feb 14 20:27:25 pupnik_: I will try that. Or I'll just try to make one. I use my n900 pretty much as my main computer so I would like a way of fast access to my documents like that. Feb 14 20:27:45 javispedro, depressing. Feb 14 20:28:00 commoditization makes that all very boring. Feb 14 20:28:40 actually, and going on topic, at the nokia dev event they repeated the answer to "that" question about the future of Qt: "Qt is business right now, WP7 might be in the future" Feb 14 20:29:15 Pff Feb 14 20:29:18 bottom line in TV: "this year's MWC is about smartphones, and evolution, not revolution [editor: "I heard this before"], and devices differentiate by design details, and target youngsters who don't consider phone calls a major usecase" Feb 14 20:29:32 Only because the company doesn't know enough to change their lines. Feb 14 20:29:38 javispedro: that is probably symbian people pulling together their wagons Feb 14 20:30:11 javispedro: give it 3 months, and the remaining ones will be all over C#, .NET, and Bing Feb 14 20:30:14 Can't they just port Qt to WP7? Feb 14 20:30:23 that was asked Feb 14 20:30:27 derf^^^ Feb 14 20:30:32 the answer was a big NO. Feb 14 20:30:45 from Nokia at least. Feb 14 20:30:56 We'll see how long that lasts. Feb 14 20:30:58 they just say they "will be commited to devs as Nokia has ever been" Feb 14 20:31:00 derf: WP7 developmentis onlydone in C#. No C.No C++. Nonative. Feb 14 20:31:10 Okay, good. Feb 14 20:31:14 javispedro:this does notsound very reassuring Feb 14 20:31:16 That means I can ignore that platform. Feb 14 20:31:33 derf: you'd do well, they're at 2011 still reintroducing multitasking Feb 14 20:31:40 and they do that by cloning the webos paradigm Feb 14 20:31:48 (though I can't blame them, handset ux also did...) Feb 14 20:32:04 and cut&paste too Feb 14 20:32:07 Did iOS manage to figure out multitasking last year? Feb 14 20:32:15 derf: yes, but just barely Feb 14 20:32:23 iOS doesn't count, it's apple. Feb 14 20:32:32 ;) Feb 14 20:32:45 I'm just saying, as a frame of reference. Feb 14 20:33:54 wow, NOK down from 7.00 at Friday evening to 6.60 now Feb 14 20:34:16 DocScrutinizer: yeah, you win the bet, NY shares at less than 9€ Feb 14 20:34:22 er.. Feb 14 20:34:35 s/€/.00 Feb 14 20:37:42 * DocScrutinizer idly wonders if that's really what those US investors had in mind when forcing Flop into Nokia CEO position (if it's really true) Feb 14 20:38:07 DocScrutinizer: what do you mean by 'that'? Feb 14 20:38:22 NOK 6.60 I meant Feb 14 20:38:35 DocScrutinizer: is that good or bad? Feb 14 20:38:47 it was like 20% more week ago Feb 14 20:38:48 that's another -18% Feb 14 20:38:49 DocScrutinizer: oh Feb 14 20:38:56 Depends on whether you're long or short. Feb 14 20:39:01 heh Feb 14 20:39:07 it's going doooooooooooooooooooooooown Feb 14 20:39:32 javispedro++ on Apple Feb 14 20:39:33 yeah, quite constantly during the day Feb 14 20:40:02 Doc: Will it hit 1.00? =) Feb 14 20:40:03 Intra-day trading is just watching computers do battle. Feb 14 20:40:31 Real humans don't actually make decisions on a minute-by-minute basis. Feb 14 20:40:42 We will have won when meego is on those computers! Feb 14 20:42:07 derf: Still, you watch this: http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=NOK and the trend is clear, computers or not Feb 14 20:42:47 Sure. But notice how the gaps between days outweigh anything that happens during the day. Feb 14 20:42:50 derf:Unless of course it is all a diabolic plot to drop Nokia's stock through the floor, buy lots of it, then raise it on some mildly reassuring WP7 news, and sell it all off Feb 14 20:43:03 RST38h: I don't doubt _someone_ is trying that. Feb 14 20:43:07 derf: Yea, but that is because it is being traded in Europe overnight Feb 14 20:43:28 derf: If you look at a US-based company (like Intel) the gaps are not there, usually Feb 14 20:44:01 Intel doesn't usually put out big enough news to cause people to re-evaluate the worth of the entire company. Feb 14 20:44:51 intel also has more than one line of stuff Feb 14 20:44:56 diversity is useful Feb 14 20:45:26 Wht was the hit on intels 'oops - we fogot about electromigration' news? Feb 14 20:46:26 SpeedEvil: Pretty insignificant. Feb 14 20:46:51 What's a $1bln loss when your market cap is $120bln? Feb 14 20:49:08 MohammadAG: ping Feb 14 20:49:24 please tell me the N9 announced while I was away Feb 14 20:49:25 SpeedEvil: it also wasn't like, "your laptop will explode killing everyone in the room." It was, "your SATA performance will degrade over 3 years." Feb 14 20:49:59 heh Feb 14 20:50:19 nvidia would have said nothing Feb 14 20:50:23 lol Feb 14 20:50:53 "what, your video is all scrambled on your macbook? I have no idea what could be causing that" Feb 14 20:51:15 what would be the minimum CPU spec for the N9 for you to personally be excited about it Feb 14 20:51:35 i thought n9 was cancelled? Feb 14 20:51:38 hrm, did gmail recently add a trailing ad? Feb 14 20:52:00 timeless: hopefully not, if they ever do that's probably the end of it. Feb 14 20:52:07 "This email was sent from my gmail Feb 14 20:52:19 javispedro: try a really long conversation Feb 14 20:52:22 oh wait, that'a apple Feb 14 20:52:24 woops, i'm trying to set up maemo sdk and when trying to run script /.maemo_install_sdk-5.0 -u zogg i get error: Feb 14 20:52:25 nox-: well i imagine the n9 was planned to be 1ghz omap3640 (speculation!!) Feb 14 20:52:28 i have an ad after the last message Feb 14 20:52:35 not in the content, past it before the nav links Feb 14 20:52:37 scratchbox found but not executable by user Feb 14 20:52:57 pupnik_, no idea but if its cancelled its moot point :/ Feb 14 20:53:03 timeless: nothing (18 posts) Feb 14 20:53:11 though it's last week Feb 14 20:53:18 ZogG: which distro are you installing on? Feb 14 20:53:40 its a even Feb 14 20:53:53 BCMM funtoo Feb 14 20:54:02 hrm, i have it for a single message Feb 14 20:54:07 ZogG: i thought that was you - why the manual scratchbox installation? Feb 14 20:54:08 BCMM, user in group, scratchbox is running Feb 14 20:54:20 * nox- typo madness again, i sure did have the a in my mind... Feb 14 20:54:37 BCMM what do you mean manual, i have scratchbox on system already Feb 14 20:54:42 * timeless gives up Feb 14 20:54:45 it's a me, wario Feb 14 20:54:47 trying to install sdk Feb 14 20:54:52 i'm definitely getting occasionally ads at the bottom Feb 14 20:56:20 ZogG: i'm not sure what maemo_install_sdk-5.0 is, but it isn't in hte instructions Feb 14 20:56:51 ZogG: i would follow http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#Manual_Installation , apart from the apt-get bits Feb 14 20:57:03 (and the newgrp) Feb 14 20:57:51 BCMM it is Feb 14 20:58:34 !summon javispedro Feb 14 20:58:37 http://konigsberg.mozilla.org/ads-below-gmail.png Feb 14 20:59:58 derf: Still, when intel goes down or up (however abruptly), it is without overnight jumps Feb 14 21:00:16 nokia is in pretty deep shit Feb 14 21:00:37 derf:But anyway, if those US investors expected to raise NOK stock price with this brilliant strategic movie, then they seem to be failing Feb 14 21:00:59 well, everything that falls have to bounce Feb 14 21:01:08 so they may want to get it down Feb 14 21:01:12 buy it cheap Feb 14 21:04:18 dead cat bounce? :) Feb 14 21:05:17 nokia's a fool to focus on american market :) Feb 14 21:05:20 americans are broke Feb 14 21:05:50 buying ipads with chinese money - lol Feb 14 21:07:28 pupnik_, lol Feb 14 21:09:38 MeeGo could've made waves in the US. Feb 14 21:09:47 you know the term 'economic hit-man'? :) Feb 14 21:09:54 Windows is a name most people spit upon. Feb 14 21:10:09 Goes to show, the Finns still don't get it. Feb 14 21:10:14 BCMM ya using it, just i don;t use install scratchbox and g straight to install-sdk Feb 14 21:10:20 GAN900: *shrug*, i'm happy with w7starter on this ideapad :) Feb 14 21:11:42 GAN900: have you seen http://soluto.com ? Feb 14 21:15:23 timeless: nice! Feb 14 21:15:47 sivang: i highly recommend it Feb 14 21:16:21 timeless: do you have it on your w7 starter on the ideapad? Feb 14 21:16:40 soluto looks neat Feb 14 21:16:44 do you use it timeless ? Feb 14 21:17:07 yes Feb 14 21:17:08 timeless, are you touched in the head? Feb 14 21:17:19 and i've had my dad install it, and installed it on a couple of other people's computers Feb 14 21:17:27 i will check it out whenever i manage to get home... see if it can prevent my impending reformat to fix incredible slowness Feb 14 21:17:30 timeless: going make wonders for my DAW Feb 14 21:17:33 it doesn't always install cleanly, i tried on a standalone vista box @work, it failed Feb 14 21:17:37 I'm vaguely happy with Ubuntu, even though the keyboard and trackpad suck. Feb 14 21:17:49 GAN900: yes, that is still an issue there. Feb 14 21:17:53 GAN900: which release? latest? Feb 14 21:18:05 GAN900: trackpad support seems to have gotten WORSE Feb 14 21:18:07 not sure why Feb 14 21:18:16 it worked perfectly until the last two releases... Feb 14 21:18:35 then all the sudden, my trackpad has no hotzones and feels weird to use Feb 14 21:18:42 mouse pad on ubuntu on my new laptop sucks Feb 14 21:18:46 old one was fine Feb 14 21:18:51 this one jumps around Feb 14 21:19:15 MohammadAG: new laptop? Feb 14 21:19:17 yeah i dunno how they messed it up but it is very much worse than it used to be Feb 14 21:19:19 you mean the touchpad? Feb 14 21:19:41 Venemo, yeah, the one I got in August Feb 14 21:19:52 it builds a kernel in less than 10 minutes, so it's "new" :P Feb 14 21:20:03 MohammadAG: oh. well that's not really new then, is it? Feb 14 21:22:46 Venemo, old one is 7 years old Feb 14 21:22:57 MohammadAG: then it's new indeed Feb 14 22:00:17 any body help with best way to ssh on ubuntu Feb 14 22:00:49 * SpeedEvil ponders an answer beginning 'Install slackware'. Feb 14 22:02:21 just use ssh? Feb 14 22:03:22 * Scorcerer rather thinks of "install gentoo" Feb 14 22:03:36 Or do you want the 'use public key, not password' answer. Feb 14 22:04:18 Pardon a stupid question, why is browser daemon always running? What does it do? Feb 14 22:05:13 which one consumes more power? bluetooth or wifi? Feb 14 22:05:26 bluetooth, probably Feb 14 22:05:31 Per_n900: for one, speeds up start time for loading the browser ui Feb 14 22:05:37 Per_n900: it accellerates startup of any browser related process. Feb 14 22:05:38 as the backend's already up Feb 14 22:05:48 Which are many of the widgets, or the browser itself. Feb 14 22:06:55 Ah, thanks! Feb 14 22:09:22 SpeedEvil: but it still consumes less than HSDPA, right? Feb 14 22:12:12 Way, way less. Feb 14 22:12:22 Well - it depends. Feb 14 22:12:37 If your link is truly idle, it probably doesn't matter. Feb 14 22:13:02 But GSM/3G uses _lots_ of power for even relatively sparse - one a second - packets. Feb 14 22:13:32 ~ping Feb 14 22:13:32 i thought it used *more* power for that Feb 14 22:13:34 ~pong Feb 14 22:13:53 wifi is good, with powersaving, bluetooth may have a slightly higher average power when in some modes than wifi 'idle' Feb 14 22:14:24 Sorry, I'mnot being clear - in all conditions, power saving wifi transferring the same traffic will use _lots_ less thanGSM/wifi Feb 14 22:14:37 Bluetooth will usually use less than wifi. Feb 14 22:18:15 SpeedEvil: thanks Feb 14 22:23:51 does anybody know which BT class is N900? Feb 14 22:24:50 2.1 + EDR i think Feb 14 22:25:13 class 2 Feb 14 22:25:48 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth#Uses Feb 14 22:25:57 so it uses less power than wifi Feb 14 22:27:19 which is in line with my finding about power consumption increase for BT enabled Feb 14 22:37:47 lxp had mentioned that wifi consumes battery if the modules are loaded but are not connected Feb 14 22:37:51 ~ping Feb 14 22:37:52 ~pong Feb 14 22:40:56 trumee, or ifconfig down wlan0 Feb 14 22:42:43 <_trine> thats odd Feb 14 22:43:05 <_trine> its normally the iface after ifconfig Feb 14 22:47:45 MohammadAG, it will not rmmod the modules though Feb 14 22:56:59 trumee, uses same power Feb 14 22:59:33 MohammadAG, when i connect to 3g, is wlan0 brought down like you described? Feb 14 23:02:33 trumee: N900 can maintain 1 connection at a time Feb 14 23:11:17 the hostmask cloak isn't nearly as effective if you don't apply it until after you join the channel Feb 14 23:11:53 indeed Feb 14 23:12:09 reverse dns ftw Feb 14 23:14:48 trumee: (wlan power) that's obvious: power saving mode works like that - AP:"next transmission slot now+160ms", N900:"fine, let's sleep til then". If there's no AP associated, then WLAN won't go sleeping Feb 14 23:17:49 trumee: when GPRS is the connection used, then you got a setting in settings-internet which will shut down WLAN for 5,10, 15, 30 min, then start a short scan if any interesting APs are near, then sleep another long period Feb 14 23:18:21 trumee: that's a function implemented in ICD afaik Feb 14 23:18:29 DocScrutinizer, ok so if i am connected to 3g, should i have manually do a "ifconfig down wlan0" or does N900 take care of that. Feb 14 23:18:46 n900 ICD takes care of that Feb 14 23:18:54 anyone here from London? Feb 14 23:19:01 at least it *should* - If not confirmed that Feb 14 23:19:08 http://nokiaplanb.com/ !!! Feb 14 23:19:09 i've* Feb 14 23:19:17 DocScrutinizer, ah i see. I have set it Never search. Feb 14 23:19:25 :-D Feb 14 23:25:22 http://nokiaplanb.com/ definitely interesting... comments? Feb 14 23:27:42 would be nice, but i doubt they will get the majority :( Feb 14 23:29:51 I suspect most of the big institutions holding Nokia shares are going to be more likely to trust that Microsoft can save the company than that a bunch of people they never heard of can save it Feb 14 23:30:30 <_trine> no one will invest when its entirely young people simply because its impossible for them to understand how business works Feb 14 23:31:12 Save the company ? Feb 14 23:31:18 <_trine> they are confusing business and profits with their desires Feb 14 23:31:22 Its the biggest phone manufactorer in the world.... Feb 14 23:31:48 Its brands worth has as much value as a smaller country Feb 14 23:31:55 tycho: refering to http://nokiaplanb.com/ Feb 14 23:32:06 <_trine> I am referring to the internet link ,, so am I Feb 14 23:33:40 Am I the only one who thinks MeeGo sounds really stupid and cliche Feb 14 23:33:41 <_trine> right now after believing I made the right choice of phone in the first instance I think due to what has happen to Nokia I probably made the wrong choice Feb 14 23:34:02 <_trine> happened* Feb 14 23:34:07 tycho, the name? Feb 14 23:34:12 Yes Feb 14 23:34:23 what's in a name Feb 14 23:34:32 It almost sound childish, like a word pun Feb 14 23:34:35 <_trine> meegone now Feb 14 23:34:58 What is the url to full firday's *asshole-not-to-be-named* presentation sildes? I'd "like" to read it once again. Feb 14 23:34:59 Maemo, Symbian nice sounding words. MeeGo.. Me. Go. Feb 14 23:35:21 Seriously my 3 year old nephew could come up with that name Feb 14 23:35:40 <_trine> the name meego is out of the same book as punto for a car Feb 14 23:37:23 me goo is better Feb 14 23:37:29 <_trine> its a real shame really cos I do like my N900 and wish it would have gone on Feb 14 23:37:50 "Increase the lifespan of Symbian to a minimum of 5 years." what for? Feb 14 23:38:03 to prolong the pain? Feb 14 23:38:54 wasn't meego the combination of two differnt Os ventures? Feb 14 23:39:19 Did Intel *really* contribute anything useful to Meego? Feb 14 23:39:25 a yes, moblin and maemo Feb 14 23:39:37 the moblin part Feb 14 23:40:22 Arkenoi, only the core, package infrastructure, build system, and reference apps ;) Feb 14 23:40:33 oh, and the kernel Feb 14 23:41:38 nokia contributed middle ware bits, the app framework, and some patches to the kernel (for the n900 mainly) Feb 14 23:41:57 trip0, does the kernel really differ? is it good? for build system it is said to be even *more* ugly ;-) Feb 14 23:42:03 some* middleware bits (timed, sysuid, etc) Feb 14 23:42:30 kernel differ from what? maemo's? Feb 14 23:42:34 what are notable meego kernel features? Feb 14 23:42:38 yep Feb 14 23:43:02 the meego kernel is closer to the vanilla kernel afaik Feb 14 23:43:07 i'm no kernel expert Feb 14 23:43:56 it has patches and fixes for specific devices out of a specific kernel maintainer's tree Feb 14 23:44:00 alan cox? Feb 14 23:44:28 * Arkenoi tries to understand if there really was something worth delays, havoc and disruption which followed the merge, wouldn't it be more wise to just stay with harmattan? Feb 14 23:44:48 Arkenoi, nokia's product delays had nothing to do with the project really Feb 14 23:44:56 since harmattan really isn't meego based Feb 14 23:45:10 harmattan and meego are not the same, only share similar components Feb 14 23:45:42 from what I hear, harmattan is much farther along than the open source meego project Feb 14 23:47:03 from what i see now i got impression intel is *highly* atom/x86-centric with meego, so its contribution usefulness is questionable Feb 14 23:47:17 trip0: given that it had a head start... Feb 14 23:47:34 Arkenoi: that''s unfair Feb 14 23:47:45 Intel is making meego crossplatform Feb 14 23:47:47 the vast majority of their code is portable Feb 14 23:47:55 of course, Intel wants it to run well on their devices Feb 14 23:48:04 and they're writing ui's which will work on screens of roughly the same size as the n900 Feb 14 23:48:07 but the goal of the project is to be as device agnostic as possible Feb 14 23:48:23 intel needs a platform that runs on their hardware Feb 14 23:48:35 that doesn't mean the platform shouldn't run on other hardware Feb 14 23:48:38 but this whole 'netbook OS' idea seems silly to me Feb 14 23:48:41 maybe i'm wrong Feb 14 23:48:47 * timeless shrugs Feb 14 23:48:50 this netbook is nice Feb 14 23:48:54 there's quite a bit of confusion around who has contributed what in meego between nokia and intel Feb 14 23:49:00 and it's more or less the target netbook Feb 14 23:49:06 of course, it's running w7starter Feb 14 23:49:07 but... Feb 14 23:49:30 http://www.concept-phones.com/nokia/nokia-n950-brings-twist-original-design-n900/ Feb 14 23:49:37 ÷ءﻷ Feb 14 23:49:42 nokia afaiu provided a couple of engineers, some bugs.meego resources, Qt, and some kernel/low level arm porting Feb 14 23:49:44 it's important to note that nokia has essentially maemo6 that they are calling harmattan/meego that is not the same as the joint project that intel is contributing to Feb 14 23:50:13 looooool! Feb 14 23:50:18 pretty much everything else comes from intel or other parties Feb 14 23:50:20 Was rm-680 scheduled to be presented on MWC (if Elop did not cancel it)? Feb 14 23:50:22 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzJyE8OhOTk Youve seen this one ? Feb 14 23:50:39 Arkenoi: i don't think nokia told anyone what was planned anyway Feb 14 23:51:02 http://www.concept-phones.com/nokia/nokia-n950-brings-twist-original-design-n900/ Feb 14 23:51:07 i'm pretty sure i didn't know what was going to be announced Feb 14 23:51:34 so is/was Harmatton going to use Maemo core pieces (like the telephony stack) or MeeGo core pieces like ofono Feb 14 23:51:38 lolloo: That is amazing Feb 14 23:51:51 Smart idea Feb 14 23:52:11 jonwil, maemo's Feb 14 23:52:19 tycho: and how does one manage to get rails to work that way? Feb 14 23:52:23 i don't think its running ofono like meego.com is Feb 14 23:52:35 location stack is also from maemo Feb 14 23:52:40 timeless: not that hard Feb 14 23:52:46 i guess it's doable Feb 14 23:52:48 ok, so it would have been just as closed-source as Fremantle in all those key areas then... Feb 14 23:52:49 http://nsuffys.blogspot.com/2011/02/un-successeur-au-nokia-n900-le-nokia.html Feb 14 23:52:54 w/ two layers Feb 14 23:53:27 jonwil: that's where the nokia value is ! Feb 14 23:53:28 950!!! nokia! i will buy that now! Feb 14 23:54:15 I dont see any value whatsoever in a legacy telephony stack that was only ever used on one handset and has now been replaced with something different :P Feb 14 23:54:21 Im gonna have my n900 till it drops Feb 14 23:54:47 jonwil: telephony stack? i was talking about closed UI Feb 14 23:55:35 hmmm yeah Feb 14 23:56:11 jonwil, yeh, just as closed in many areas in all likelyhood. It's probably because of the product timeline they were pushing for. the joint project with Intel came later and isn't quite ready yet Feb 14 23:56:20 * Arkenoi wonders what was the main reason there was no n9 in 2010 -- moblin merge or resource distraction by symbian? Feb 14 23:56:37 they wanted to release harmattan in October from what I heard Feb 14 23:57:07 in any case its clear that any future released based on the maemo codebase are dead Feb 14 23:57:15 Hi Feb 14 23:57:19 Arkenoi, the framework they were using wasn't ready from what i could tell (MTF) Feb 14 23:57:31 Why did they scrap it in the first place Feb 14 23:57:33 Is there any way to download gps data when I have a wifi connection? Feb 14 23:57:56 tycho, scrap what? Feb 14 23:58:21 maemo Feb 14 23:58:23 pyther, just wifi? no. you need a gps signal Feb 14 23:58:42 tycho, they didn't scrap maemo Feb 14 23:58:53 trip0: I mean I want to download the satilite info so that when I'm ready use the gps I can without needing a net connection Feb 14 23:59:01 you mean, why did they scrap the hildon desktop and gtk? Feb 14 23:59:26 trip0: I don't have 2/3G connection and I don't always remember to fire up a gps enabled application before I leave the house Feb 14 23:59:27 pyther, you can't cash agps info Feb 14 23:59:35 cache* Feb 15 00:00:02 pyther, no, with agps info it is just finding out your rough location and then using that info to do a faster calculation of what satalites to expect above you Feb 15 00:00:11 trip0: So what does it run on now Feb 15 00:00:14 it's not something that can be done with wifi Feb 15 00:00:17 i guess there is nothing that prevents one from using gtk applications on meego, right? except some extra resources to be allocated Feb 15 00:00:18 but I want to cache the satalite location Feb 15 00:00:22 *locations Feb 15 00:00:29 so it can establish a gps connection faster Feb 15 00:00:31 they are moving Feb 15 00:00:35 in the sky Feb 15 00:00:43 tycho, they dropped the hildon desktop and gtk from maemo because Qt is a better toolkit Feb 15 00:00:55 (i'm assuming) Feb 15 00:01:09 you are never under the same set of satalites Feb 15 00:01:16 And do you think they will keep doing linux phones in the future Feb 15 00:01:22 Proteous: then what downloads from the net? Feb 15 00:01:27 I feel that it ended and started with n900 Feb 15 00:01:32 agps does not seem to use wifi mac data on any nokia phones Feb 15 00:01:35 because I can get a lock if it downloads "something" from the net Feb 15 00:01:47 Proteous, arent gps satillites geo-stationary? (they don't move, you do) Feb 15 00:01:56 hey Feb 15 00:01:59 no, GPS sattelites are not geostationary Feb 15 00:02:12 no, it looks at the cell towers to make an approximation of your location to make getting a real GPS lock easier Feb 15 00:02:17 trip0: no Feb 15 00:02:39 how much open source is MeeGo ? Feb 15 00:02:41 it does Feb 15 00:02:43 if you backup with maemos own tool to sdcard does the communication and callendar backup Contacts and sms for example ? Feb 15 00:02:44 trip0: a geo-stationary orbit only works in certain places Feb 15 00:03:24 but android devices seem to find its position pretty good just by wifi networks available, maemo does not do this trick (nor symbian does) Feb 15 00:03:31 Proteous: so then how do gps devices work that don't have 3G? Feb 15 00:03:42 you don't need 3g for agps Feb 15 00:03:43 fghjkdhsjahj i cannot find libpcre3 for n810 anywhere :/ Feb 15 00:03:44 The orbits are geosynchronous - but not geostationary. Feb 15 00:03:59 They are in a 12 hour orbit - so 24 hours later - you see the same sats Feb 15 00:04:02 (if you don't move) Feb 15 00:04:16 geostationary only works at the equator Feb 15 00:04:30 For nonpowered objects. :) Feb 15 00:04:37 :) Feb 15 00:04:39 heh didn't know the period of the north was different than the equator Feb 15 00:04:43 any1 knows ? Feb 15 00:04:44 26 hour day? ;) Feb 15 00:05:00 tycho, meego.com is supposed to be completely open source Feb 15 00:05:03 pupnik, haha Feb 15 00:05:21 i wonder how europe gets satellite TV, nox- Feb 15 00:05:36 pupnik, geostationary ofc :) Feb 15 00:05:39 Arkenoi: there are other tech for doing position via wifi by looking at accesspoints around you and referencing a DB of know access points and their locations Feb 15 00:05:41 of course, sometimes closed drivers are required to get hardware working Feb 15 00:05:49 some company called skynet or something Feb 15 00:05:53 but all of meego's middleware/apps are open Feb 15 00:05:55 google does it too Feb 15 00:06:03 Proteous: so maemo doesn't use agps? Feb 15 00:06:05 * DocScrutinizer yawns Feb 15 00:06:32 pyther: yes it does if you have a connection, but you don't have to use it, just takes longer to get a lock without it Feb 15 00:07:02 what's that new peer-to-peer phone network called Feb 15 00:07:12 Vapour. Feb 15 00:07:17 p2p phone network? Feb 15 00:07:20 aw, I was going to make that joke Feb 15 00:07:24 im a gonna shoot the laptop in a moment it not getting online it was on yesterday no prombs nothing changed Feb 15 00:07:25 damn you SpeedEvil Feb 15 00:07:31 Proteous: I guess I'm confused because with my gps unit I can download updates to get a lock faster Feb 15 00:08:14 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS Feb 15 00:08:38 Woo! Feb 15 00:08:40 uthis is cool Feb 15 00:08:41 * SpeedEvil feels famous. Feb 15 00:08:47 * SpeedEvil wrote 90% of that page. Feb 15 00:08:52 nice Feb 15 00:08:57 lol Feb 15 00:08:58 gj Feb 15 00:09:01 so why aren't you ansering these questions! Feb 15 00:09:07 fffff Feb 15 00:09:22 famous, yes. lazy, yes Feb 15 00:09:24 Proteous: Because I had something more important to do. Feb 15 00:09:29 sure sure Feb 15 00:09:42 Proteous: so does anything get downloaded from the net? Feb 15 00:09:45 I did! Feb 15 00:09:48 SpeedEvil, isn't everyone famous in an open source community? Feb 15 00:09:48 I was picking my nose. Feb 15 00:11:52 pyther: ask SpeedEvil :) Feb 15 00:12:00 or read the wikipedia page... Feb 15 00:12:03 MohammadAG, yes. Feb 15 00:12:54 :) Feb 15 00:13:03 * MohammadAG wants the symbian keypad sound Feb 15 00:13:15 Proteous: ok so how do I download the datat fro the assitant server? Feb 15 00:13:43 I don't belive that the n900 uses the "MS_assisted" part of agps Feb 15 00:15:09 hmm I do know that it connects to my wifi connection and downloads something Feb 15 00:15:10 so you can't do what you want Feb 15 00:15:17 even though other GPS devices have the function Feb 15 00:15:36 but don't take my word for it Feb 15 00:15:47 I don't know exectly what features the agps on the n900 uses Feb 15 00:15:56 the internet can probably tell you though Feb 15 00:16:00 it knows all Feb 15 00:21:59 pyther: google is your friend, and SpeedEvil even more, as he wrote such nice webpage. And if that's still not enough, here's even more: http://www.colorado.edu/geography/gcraft/notes/gps/gps_f.html Feb 15 00:22:35 Yeah - that's the link I always give out - it's good stuff - all you need to impleemnte a GPS reciever. Feb 15 00:22:42 And actually not too hard to read. Feb 15 00:22:54 Well - until you hit the data format descriptors. Feb 15 00:24:17 that's ISI though Feb 15 00:25:39 Paki intelligence eh Feb 15 00:26:11 o.O Feb 15 00:26:36 bad joke Re ISI Feb 15 00:31:08 Give me the dev headers I need and I can really bust things open in all sorts of fun-and-community-benefiting-ways Feb 15 00:31:23 btw, I am now 99% sure that the Cell Broadcast code in the SMS stack is broken Feb 15 00:33:01 The issue I have seen is to do with the info_length field in the SMS_GSM_CB_MESSAGE subblock structure Feb 15 00:33:17 Sigh. Feb 15 00:33:21 The docs say "Value 255 indicates that this parameter should be ignored" Feb 15 00:33:49 jonwil: keep in mind that N900 cellmo is DRM'd Feb 15 00:34:02 Its not the cell modem, its the application stack Feb 15 00:34:19 There is code in libsms that says "if info_length = 255, = 0, else = info_length" Feb 15 00:34:20 DRM? Feb 15 00:34:48 * Arkenoi wonders if sim toolkit interface is possible on n900 Feb 15 00:35:11 Possible - if nokia coded it - but no. Feb 15 00:35:32 It depends on the deep bits of the modem supporting it, and they reportedly on't Feb 15 00:36:01 Then there is other code in libcsd-sms that passes the value from that other data structure up to CSD-SMS as the length of an array Feb 15 00:36:38 so whats happening is that if the value of info_length is 255 (which it is on the cell broadcast messages I am seeing in my tests), the IncomingCBS signal is being passed an empty array Feb 15 00:37:21 Odd. Feb 15 00:37:42 Can you intercept the communication? Feb 15 00:37:54 Is there anything like iptables/ Feb 15 00:39:04 There is no way to get into libsms or libcsd-sms directly. I am about to outline all the options (however unlikely they may be) for fixes Feb 15 00:39:18 There are several options for a fix: 1.Binary patch one byte in libsms.so to solve the problem (not really a practical option for obvious reasons). 2.Hope Nokia can release a fixed binary (wont happen) 3.Hope nokia can release source code to libsms (wont happen) Feb 15 00:40:10 4.Write something that clones and replaces just the CBSMS parts of the stack and solves the issue Feb 15 00:40:17 5.Clone and replace all of libsms or libcsd-sms or both Feb 15 00:40:53 Arkenoi: nokia didn't implement sim toolkit Feb 15 00:40:58 you could waste resources doing it Feb 15 00:41:03 but ime, that stuff's just crap Feb 15 00:41:17 and should really just die Feb 15 00:42:15 For option #4 to work, I would need to write a totally new daemon just for cell broadcast SMS (and totally new isi interface code and stuff to match) if I cant figure out how to talk to the existing stuff Feb 15 00:43:17 I don't think you can implement sim toolkit withotu modem-side code Feb 15 00:43:40 jonwil: Why isbinary patch bad? Feb 15 00:44:08 I just dont feel comfortable binary patching a shipping binary Feb 15 00:44:20 md5sum it first Feb 15 00:44:32 its not that Feb 15 00:44:37 I know. Feb 15 00:44:42 Side effects Feb 15 00:44:50 And ... Feb 15 00:45:04 yeah side effects such as messing up what the package manager thinks is installed Feb 15 00:45:14 hence why I dont want to do it Feb 15 00:46:19 If I had the dev packages (or reverse engineered function definitions) for the right APIs, I could have Cell Broadcast up and running within a week Feb 15 00:46:43 SAT/STK also is really hard to implement on an archotecture like N900, as SAT needs *full* exclusive access to screen and kbd afaik Feb 15 00:47:37 It just means you need to have a special screen with a picture of a dumbphone on, andmeans of checking you're on top. Feb 15 00:47:37 DocScrutinizer, why? Feb 15 00:47:58 I'm trying automate setting of DNS on PPTP. The PPTP server does not provide DNS properly so I usually put in and ip-up.local script Feb 15 00:48:00 timeless, sim toolkit is useful sometimes Feb 15 00:48:06 Arkenoi: because that's what SAT is doing Feb 15 00:48:42 My understanding is that dnsmasq is supposed to poll resolve files and use the last modified one Feb 15 00:49:04 this doesn't seem to work. Polling and SIGHUP do not update dnsmasq Feb 15 00:49:13 Am I missing something? Feb 15 00:49:30 You could kill and restart dnsmasq Feb 15 00:50:10 Also I can't seem to find the init script. What manages dnsmasq? Feb 15 00:50:33 dotCOMmie: have you checked events.d? Feb 15 00:52:01 ah Feb 15 00:52:27 not very familiar with it do you know of the top how to restart a service in event.d? Feb 15 00:57:48 hmm restarting doesn't help either Feb 15 00:58:52 Specifically I would ideally want to have csd-sms-dev, libisi-dev, libisi-glib-dev, libsms-dev, csd-plugin-dev, libsms-utils-dev, and dev headers for the connectivity UI shared libraries (libconnui etc). But if Nokia wont release these headers then I will have to hope someone can help me reverse engineer the needed APIs... Feb 15 01:03:19 finding decent tools, resources and tutorials for ARM reverse engineering is much harder than it is for x86 :( Feb 15 01:03:43 Write one! Feb 15 01:04:20 I dont have the skills to come up with such a thing Feb 15 01:04:28 if I had the skills, I wouldn't need tutorials Feb 15 01:04:39 if I had tutorials I could get the skills Feb 15 01:04:41 :) Feb 15 01:08:54 Aha! Feb 15 01:09:06 I got it. Permissions were wrong Feb 15 01:10:06 ppl seem to have forgotten, microsoft IS hellspawn Feb 15 01:11:49 err, microsoft is a business Feb 15 01:11:58 part of a business is ensuring a customer base Feb 15 01:12:21 part of that involves providing tools to encourage developers to provide products to fulfill needs of those customers Feb 15 01:12:26 microsoft does this Feb 15 01:12:37 nokia isn't familiar with this "ecosystem" concept Feb 15 01:12:54 (nokia has spent a year trying to evangelize ecosystems but ...) Feb 15 01:13:31 your point is taken, but MS is hellspawn, for reasons I won't repeat :) Feb 15 01:15:06 engadget sucks Feb 15 01:15:27 wtf is an "ecosystem"? Feb 15 01:15:33 for sale: n900, only washed onced, oc'd ever since, send offers. Feb 15 01:15:44 trip0: It's what trolls grow in. Feb 15 01:15:55 grr Feb 15 01:17:29 i think when nokia/google/apple says "ecosystem" they really mean "zoo" Feb 15 01:17:36 "this is where the lions are kept" Feb 15 01:17:53 "this is where the monkeys are caged" Feb 15 01:19:07 "this is where we keep the developers" Feb 15 01:20:07 ok, it looks like all my work on SMS-CB is not going to advance forward unless Nokia releases some dev packages or unless someone with ARM skills comes forward and can help me reverse engineer the stuff I need Feb 15 01:20:25 :( Feb 15 01:20:56 Thanks for what progress you've made - at least it's information as to what's possible. Feb 15 01:21:04 And that it doesn't require modem hacking Feb 15 01:21:07 dotCOMmie: stop ; start Feb 15 01:26:53 Finding people with ARM skills is hard :( Feb 15 01:27:17 Have you asked over on #edev? Feb 15 01:28:21 DocScrutinizer: thanks Feb 15 01:28:24 there is no such channel Feb 15 01:28:41 trip0: an ecosystem is a place which has customers, hardware to host software, a place to provide software for the hardware, and a story for developers to build software for the hardware Feb 15 01:29:11 trip0: the ecosystem can be of varying degrees of openness Feb 15 01:29:25 one could probably describe apple's as the most "closed" Feb 15 01:29:30 (or least open) Feb 15 01:29:41 #edev doesnt exist Feb 15 01:29:51 historically,, although people wouldn't believe it, microsoft's has been the most open Feb 15 01:30:07 jonwil: ## Feb 15 01:30:10 you can pick your compiler vendor, your language, your toolkit, ... Feb 15 01:30:13 2 freekin hours to get this bloody lappie to conect to wifi where nothing had changed Feb 15 01:30:23 you can pick your hardware vendor, your form factor, .... Feb 15 01:30:30 ##edev doesnt exist either Feb 15 01:30:30 jonwil: no - actually - one # Feb 15 01:30:42 neither channel exists Feb 15 01:30:52 now I found it Feb 15 01:31:01 (note that when i say "microsoft", i don't mean winmo, i mean windows proper) Feb 15 01:31:24 android is newer, and is slightly more open than apple, but isn't really particularly open Feb 15 01:36:26 ok looks like my wifi powersaving issue was the ap's fault afterall... Feb 15 01:38:59 can you explain a bit nox- ? Feb 15 01:39:09 my ap has two settings for that Feb 15 01:40:00 n900 often `missed' beacon frames and then repeatedly sent probe requests, reason was wifi driver bug on the `ap' Feb 15 01:40:49 powersave code was just missing :) Feb 15 01:41:21 heh Feb 15 01:41:33 that'd do it (: Feb 15 01:41:37 indeed :) Feb 15 01:42:08 achaa Feb 15 01:47:29 i'll just have to watch if the probe requests reappear for maybe another reason but im pretty sure this was the only problem :) Feb 15 01:47:53 at least i get less packet loss now too... Feb 15 01:48:32 Congrats. Did you manage to update the router? Feb 15 01:48:39 yeah Feb 15 01:49:15 router is a freebsd box, applied patch to driver module, reloaded it and restarted hostapd :) Feb 15 01:49:56 (the n900 is the only thing that uses wifi here...) Feb 15 02:23:15 Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl! http://i.imgur.com/H9eXa.png :D **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Feb 15 02:59:56 2011