**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Feb 26 02:59:57 2011
Feb 26 03:09:51 <TiagoTiago> Is there a way i can make the hardware keyboard modifier keys (shift and Fn) work inside a Tcl program the way they work in hildonized programs?
Feb 26 03:17:50 <pupnik> DocScrutinizer: and the n810 was still amazing
Feb 26 03:18:10 <pupnik> whatever balance of components they had there,.... it was maybe the best i've heard
Feb 26 03:19:41 <pupnik> there is a psychoacoustic phenomenon where the ear 'extrapolates' frequencies down
Feb 26 03:20:18 <pupnik> it hears overtones occuring at a higher frequency, pulse modulated, and it re-creates the bass tone "belonging" to it
Feb 26 03:20:40 <pupnik> that also apples to high frequencies 'extending' to mids
Feb 26 03:20:43 <pupnik> if done right
Feb 26 03:20:45 <pupnik> it's an art
Feb 26 03:21:35 <pupnik> in fact it's the reason why kids think they are hearing music from these tweeters in cell phones
Feb 26 03:23:01 <nox-> oh yeah thats what those tiny bose speakers do i suppose?
Feb 26 03:23:42 <pupnik> hm
Feb 26 03:23:52 <pupnik> i think you are thinking of their waveguides
Feb 26 03:24:03 <nox-> maybe
Feb 26 03:24:10 <pupnik> the miniature bose radio
Feb 26 03:24:13 <nox-> yeah
Feb 26 03:24:30 <pupnik> i haven't studied that
Feb 26 03:24:38 <nox-> not just a speaker by itself ofc
Feb 26 03:24:47 <nox-> speaker + amp
Feb 26 03:25:09 <pupnik> i think the bose soundwave is a 'transmission line' speaker
Feb 26 03:25:11 <pupnik> iirc
Feb 26 03:25:37 <pupnik> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_transmission_line
Feb 26 03:26:36 <nox-> hm the radio does that too?
Feb 26 03:26:58 <pupnik> vague memory, i thought it did
Feb 26 03:27:11 <nox-> ah ok, interesting
Feb 26 03:27:45 <pupnik> for hi-fi snobs it is crap
Feb 26 03:27:48 <nox-> yep
Feb 26 03:28:39 <pupnik> http://www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/thread/155755/science-behind-the-bose-wave-radio
Feb 26 03:29:02 <pupnik> weee, i was right
Feb 26 03:29:41 <nox-> hehe nice
Feb 26 03:33:04 <nox-> you read german right?  then this might also be interesting:  http://www.nubert.de/index.php?id=59&PHPSESSID=c4481d7d5ffc071f2f152268087fba1d
Feb 26 03:33:15 <nox-> that pdf on there
Feb 26 03:33:36 <pupnik> many of my friends liked nubert
Feb 26 03:33:45 <nox-> hehe
Feb 26 03:33:47 <pupnik> yours have silk/soft dome?
Feb 26 03:34:02 <pupnik> i like those better than metal
Feb 26 03:34:31 <nox-> http://www.nubert.de/images/products/nubox/nubox-381_schwarz_ohne_blende.jpg?PHPSESSID=b2e53594433b16227be1e0276b5bb6da
Feb 26 03:35:04 <pupnik> a quality 2-way pair just sounds great
Feb 26 03:35:19 <pupnik> but i could never order online
Feb 26 03:35:30 <pupnik> oh i just got a pair of ebay speakers for 1 euro
Feb 26 03:35:35 <nox-> haha
Feb 26 03:35:45 <pupnik> going to drop the rm8-neo drivers in there and experiment
Feb 26 03:36:18 <pupnik> you should hear vmps or planars sometime
Feb 26 03:36:43 <pupnik> or some infiniti / kappa / wharfedale / vandersteen / magneplan
Feb 26 03:36:55 <pupnik> with the planar drivers
Feb 26 03:37:24 <pupnik> they can have their own problems of course
Feb 26 03:37:51 <pupnik> but they deliver midranges very differently than conic speakers
Feb 26 03:39:40 <pupnik> kind of like switching to an electric car
Feb 26 03:40:41 <pupnik> not always the best solution, but very interesting and completely superior in some ways
Feb 26 03:41:53 <nox-> hmm
Feb 26 04:18:04 <nox-> http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/02/25/6134101-shuttle-launch-witnessed-from-above
Feb 26 05:48:29 <Sazpaimon> hey N900 owners
Feb 26 05:48:30 <Sazpaimon> http://cgi.ebay.com/NOKIA-N900-UNLOCKED-BLACK-MOBILE-TOUCHSCREEN-PHON-BROKE-/350442914124?pt=Cell_Phones&hash=item519806814c
Feb 26 05:48:32 <Sazpaimon> what say you on this
Feb 26 05:48:47 <Sazpaimon> guy says it "shows that its charging but won't power on
Feb 26 05:48:48 <Sazpaimon> "
Feb 26 05:49:13 <Sazpaimon> without any more details than that, what could be its possible cause. If it's something simple like a reflash, I think $170 would be well worth it
Feb 26 05:54:17 <Sazpaimon> also, if it's something slightly more serious, the nokia store is a train ride away
Feb 26 05:54:49 <Sazpaimon> just curious if it seems like something simple to the experts here
Feb 26 05:57:03 <DocScrutinizer> quite common FPC defect -> screen black -> http://www.ownta.com/original-nokia-n900-cell-phone-slide-flex-cable-ribbon-with-camera.html
Feb 26 05:58:39 <Sazpaimon> yikes, so i might need to tack on another $50 to this?
Feb 26 05:59:20 <DocScrutinizer> plus service
Feb 26 05:59:35 <Sazpaimon> i'd be better off just sniping a working one then
Feb 26 06:00:41 <DocScrutinizer> I'd say for 170 bucks you get a "working condition, like new"
Feb 26 06:01:02 <Sazpaimon> nope, they usually go for $250 or more
Feb 26 06:01:37 <Sazpaimon> cheapest working one I see is at $180, and that's at 22 bids and ending in 2,5 days
Feb 26 06:02:23 <Sazpaimon> most of the buy it nows are listed at $370 or more
Feb 26 06:31:24 <RST38h> Man Discovers His Online Girlfriend of 2.5 Years Is FakeAfter Paying Her $200,000
Feb 26 06:35:12 <psycho_oreos> scammed because of one's gullibility-ness?
Feb 26 06:38:28 <doc|home> lets be honest, we've all been messed about by a girl one time at one stage or another. She just got away with it for longer than most.
Feb 26 06:39:48 <RST38h> There wasn't any girl to begin with, just a Nigerian scammer.
Feb 26 06:40:13 <doc|home> fair enough, then he's an idiot
Feb 26 06:41:01 <psycho_oreos> indeed
Feb 26 07:53:52 <Termana> good morning
Feb 26 07:54:50 <Cor-Ai> morning
Feb 26 07:58:23 <divan> morning
Feb 26 08:12:30 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Feb 26 08:13:43 <Cor-Ai> jaffa cree!
Feb 26 08:14:08 <Jaffa> Indeed.
Feb 26 08:14:37 <Cor-Ai> :D
Feb 26 08:50:37 <slonopotamus> wtf is going on with python on autobuilder? https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/subversion_1.6.12dfsg-4maemo1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt
Feb 26 09:28:07 <pupnik> wow look at all the new apps "_
Feb 26 09:32:02 <divan> pupnik, what new apps?
Feb 26 09:32:37 <pugvader> since april, 2010
Feb 26 09:32:56 <pugvader> much has been done
Feb 26 09:35:43 <pugvader> pupnik just fixed his N900
Feb 26 09:35:51 <pupnik> :)
Feb 26 09:36:17 <pupnik> 'twas a paperweight not bootining
Feb 26 09:36:32 <pugvader> and by the power of grayskull...
Feb 26 09:45:27 <pupnik> oh wow yes rootfs does fill fast
Feb 26 09:48:30 <pupnik> ugh this terminal hurts my eyes to read
Feb 26 09:48:42 <pupnik> give us a 4-5" screen pls
Feb 26 09:54:51 <pupnik> uninstalling one app takes > 1 minute?
Feb 26 10:02:00 <kerio> with HAM?
Feb 26 10:02:05 <kerio> i doubt 1 minute is enough
Feb 26 10:02:51 <pupnik> just trying to install fapman since 1/2 hour
Feb 26 10:03:16 <pupnik> had to relink /var/cache/apt/archives to /opt
Feb 26 10:03:36 <pupnik> pulling in the 1.3 updates it seems
Feb 26 10:04:33 <slonopotamus> https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/subversion_1.6.12dfsg-4maemo1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt any ideas?
Feb 26 10:06:35 <pupnik> no module named subprocess ...
Feb 26 10:07:09 <slonopotamus> yep. but where it is gone?
Feb 26 10:07:31 <pupnik> i don't know python
Feb 26 10:07:47 <pupnik> is there a module 'subprocess' or is it a spurious error?
Feb 26 10:07:53 <slonopotamus> well, on n900 it is definitely present
Feb 26 10:08:16 * slonopotamus sends new bunch of curses to scratchbox devs
Feb 26 10:08:44 * pupnik so happy he fixed water-damaged system board with 
Feb 26 10:08:46 <pupnik> alcohol
Feb 26 10:10:37 <pupnik> slonopotamus: what can you do to resolve this?
Feb 26 10:15:37 <slonopotamus> pupnik: already did. added python to SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE
Feb 26 10:15:52 * slonopotamus really wants SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE=*
Feb 26 10:23:19 <dm8tbr> pupnik: ah, isopropyl to the rescue :) - did that to a 9300 too recently
Feb 26 10:41:57 <pupnik> dm8tbr: it's the first time it has actually worked for me
Feb 26 11:20:34 <pupnik> i wish n900 would setup usb networking on connect to pc
Feb 26 11:22:10 <slonopotamus> pupnik: then you wouldn't be able to plug it into media player and watch videos from mmc
Feb 26 11:26:15 <trumee> ~ping
Feb 26 11:26:15 <infobot> ~pong
Feb 26 11:32:30 <pupnik> slonopotamus: well you get the option to do storage mode or pc suite
Feb 26 11:32:36 <pupnik> what is pc suite for anyway
Feb 26 11:32:50 <slonopotamus> no idea
Feb 26 11:33:13 <Metallikettu> For pc-suite mode :)
Feb 26 11:33:43 <Metallikettu> For connecting to pc-suite software (pretty useless anyway)
Feb 26 11:35:41 <pupnik> yeah i never tried it
Feb 26 11:40:10 <FireFly|n900> To sync calender with Outlook and stuff like that, I think
Feb 26 11:40:46 <FireFly|n900> At least that was the case with my old S40 phone
Feb 26 11:41:22 <pupnik> it would be cool to add "Usb Network" to the list of options
Feb 26 11:41:51 <pupnik> so happy after 10 months the n900 is back in business :D
Feb 26 11:42:07 <villager> nokia pc suite also allows you to use the phone as a modem to connect to the internet via gsm/3g
Feb 26 11:42:18 <pupnik> cool villager so it does network
Feb 26 11:42:44 <villager> it can network in pc suite mode yes
Feb 26 11:42:47 <lolcat> Can I use the sixaxis controller as a mouse in easy debian?
Feb 26 11:42:48 <jacekowski> it's if you want to use it as a modem
Feb 26 11:42:56 <jacekowski> or anything else that's not storage mode
Feb 26 11:43:02 <jacekowski> or connect it to pcsuite
Feb 26 11:43:18 <pupnik> the kernel module needs switching modes iirc
Feb 26 11:43:30 <pupnik> for the usb controller
Feb 26 11:43:39 <jacekowski> well, it could be done with fake usb hub
Feb 26 11:43:45 <OkropNick> jacekowski: hi, can I ask you something using msg?
Feb 26 11:43:47 <jacekowski> so phone could do all modes at once
Feb 26 11:43:59 <jacekowski> OkropNick: what?
Feb 26 11:44:13 <OkropNick> jacekowski: private question?
Feb 26 11:44:18 <jacekowski> ok
Feb 26 11:53:34 <pupnik> check out "The story of robotron" clips on youtube.  awesome
Feb 26 12:01:57 * MohammadAG wonders if it'd be possible to iterate over all messages and mark them as read
Feb 26 12:29:47 <pupnik> so nice to have the best again
Feb 26 12:30:58 <alterego> Is it possible to get a linux machine with a single wifi card to act as a base station?
Feb 26 12:31:21 <alterego> Ah, looks like it might be.
Feb 26 12:32:23 <alterego> Sweet, this should work quite nicely :D
Feb 26 12:34:02 <brekpoint> you need to configure a radius server for wlan logins
Feb 26 12:35:03 <brekpoint> there is a howto which deskribe the whole process
Feb 26 12:37:04 <brekpoint> search in google for wlan radius linux
Feb 26 12:44:12 <pupnik> does mlocate/slocate work?
Feb 26 12:44:51 <jacekowski> no need for radius
Feb 26 12:45:04 <jacekowski> alterego: all you need is a card that can work in STA/master mode
Feb 26 12:45:08 <jacekowski> alterego: and run hostapd
Feb 26 12:45:26 <alterego> jacekowski: yeah, I checked I've got some compatible dongles
Feb 26 12:45:42 <jacekowski> do you want wpa or wep or no?
Feb 26 12:46:12 <alterego> I don't really care about that, wpa 2 psk would be useful but not essential
Feb 26 12:46:20 <jacekowski> ok
Feb 26 12:47:32 <jacekowski> http://pastebin.com/VsBBJL2k
Feb 26 12:47:39 <jacekowski> that's my hostapd config file
Feb 26 12:47:46 <jacekowski> http://pastebin.com/VsBBJL2k
Feb 26 12:47:49 <jacekowski> wpa_psk_file=/etc/hostapd/wpa_psk
Feb 26 12:47:53 <jacekowski> that file contains single line
Feb 26 12:48:12 <jacekowski> 00:00:00:00:00:00 mynetworkkey
Feb 26 12:48:27 <alterego> Oh, that's great, thanks :)
Feb 26 12:48:29 <jacekowski> you may have to tweak interface names and stuff
Feb 26 12:48:43 <alterego> ~seen javispedro
Feb 26 12:48:48 <infobot> javispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 15h 3m 32s ago, saying: 'MIPS. sigh.'.
Feb 26 12:49:02 <alterego> Heh
Feb 26 12:57:54 <RST38h> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-W0y_YRdrmFo/TWjvbH_yLYI/AAAAAAAAC2I/QcjsSYsEq6Q/s1600/epic-win-photos-prayer-win.jpg
Feb 26 12:58:03 <villager> alterego: my desktop computer has two primary tasks: wifi base station with hostapd (and NAT), and running boinc... I, too, see no reason why you'd want radius on a home network, since that's for EAP authentication on enterprise networks and stuff
Feb 26 12:58:04 <RST38h> alterego: here?
Feb 26 13:00:19 <alterego> yeah, what can I do for you RST38h
Feb 26 13:35:45 <eichi> hello! is there no way to activate and deactivate the virtuell keyboard with one click (shortcut etc). I only need if vor navigation. allways have to go to options is bad. is there a command in command line, i can use for that?
Feb 26 13:39:56 <eichi> ah okay, it hides, if i open the hardware keyboard, thats nice ;) kay. now problem dosnt matter
Feb 26 14:10:30 <toadpole> hey could someone help me with flashing my n900? i put the phone off, pressed u, connected the cable, released u, now the nokia logo and a usb icon are on the screen... however, windows 7 was unable to install the driver successfully... should i continue?
Feb 26 14:11:19 <Venemo> toadpole: many people are experiencing issues on Windows flashing, especially on 64-bit windows
Feb 26 14:11:36 <Venemo> toadpole: I'd suggest you to try a Linux live cd or something
Feb 26 14:11:39 <Venemo> ~flashing
Feb 26 14:11:40 <infobot> i guess flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Feb 26 14:14:15 <toadpole> wait looks like i have to hold 'u' until it successfully installs the driver
Feb 26 14:14:23 <toadpole> i'm gonna try that
Feb 26 14:18:20 <toadpole> yup, looks like that worked... thanks, though, Venemo
Feb 26 14:18:36 <Venemo> okay toadpole, I'm glad :)
Feb 26 14:21:09 <toadpole> do i flash the EMMC image first or later?
Feb 26 14:23:36 <merlin1991> toadpole, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Flashing_the_eMMC_in_the_N900
Feb 26 14:27:43 <toadpole> ( merlin1991 ): suppose i don't flash the FIASCO/rootfs image, what'll i not have?
Feb 26 14:28:10 <merlin1991> everything
Feb 26 14:28:22 <merlin1991> emmc is just the mydocs part
Feb 26 14:28:26 <merlin1991> rootfs is the os
Feb 26 14:28:52 <toadpole> what's this, then? RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM
Feb 26 14:30:14 <psycho_oreos> global pr1.3 firmware
Feb 26 14:30:39 <toadpole> the o/s and the firmware are two different things?
Feb 26 14:30:42 <psycho_oreos> you can see the descriptions clearly in the far right of that row
Feb 26 14:31:15 <psycho_oreos> no the OS comes with the firmware, the fiasco part
Feb 26 14:31:37 <toadpole> so if i flash the firmware, i don't need to do the fiasco step?
Feb 26 14:32:10 <psycho_oreos> fiasco is firmware
Feb 26 14:33:04 <toadpole> so basically RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM is the file i need for the fiasco step here?
Feb 26 14:33:13 <merlin1991> yes
Feb 26 14:33:40 <toadpole> damn i have so much to learn, sorry bout being an idiot, people... thanks for your help and patience
Feb 26 14:34:35 * pupnik is just amazed how awesome n900 feels after not having one for many months
Feb 26 14:34:51 <pupnik> and even with three row keyboard life is ok in the shell
Feb 26 14:37:19 <toadpole> just one last question, guys... if i first flash the firmware, then the eMMC, that's all i have to do to get it to factory state, right?
Feb 26 14:40:07 <MohammadAG> yes
Feb 26 14:40:15 <MohammadAG> and change lock code back to 12345
Feb 26 14:40:22 <MohammadAG> before reflashing
Feb 26 14:40:45 <toadpole> didn't change the lock code so i guess that's okay.. thanks again, all
Feb 26 14:46:10 <Venemo> good morning MohammadAG :)
Feb 26 14:46:25 <MohammadAG> morning :)
Feb 26 14:49:46 <pupnik> hey MohammadAG i fixed the waterdamaged n900 :D
Feb 26 14:49:51 <pupnik> what a fun device this is
Feb 26 14:51:36 <Venemo> pupnik, how did you do that?
Feb 26 14:52:19 <pupnik> i cleaned it real clean and then squirted ethanol all over the system board then put it in the oven
Feb 26 14:52:53 <Venemo> and you baked it?
Feb 26 14:52:58 <pupnik> yaha
Feb 26 14:53:29 <pupnik> made a mistake with the temperature control too.  i don't want to know how hot it got
Feb 26 14:53:37 <pupnik> :)
Feb 26 14:53:56 <MohammadAG> lol
Feb 26 14:54:06 <MohammadAG> I would've shoved it in rice :)
Feb 26 14:54:20 <pupnik> and waited months?
Feb 26 14:55:01 <MohammadAG> good point, though I'd give up after 48h :P
Feb 26 14:55:33 <pupnik> is there a 'find my stolen n900' app?
Feb 26 14:55:41 <Venemo> yes
Feb 26 14:55:50 <pupnik> cool in the pool
Feb 26 14:55:53 <MohammadAG> I like the iPhone's feature
Feb 26 14:56:13 <MohammadAG> but it makes me think, if Apple can request location anytime, doesn't that ruin privacy?
Feb 26 14:57:00 <Venemo> yea
Feb 26 15:01:51 <MohammadAG> or it's push
Feb 26 15:10:50 <pupnik> i wonder why /var/cache/apt/archives wasn't put on /opt in the first place
Feb 26 15:12:59 <ruskie> pupnik, don't forget the apt metadata
Feb 26 15:13:03 <ruskie> that can get big as well
Feb 26 15:13:40 <MohammadAG> dpkg*
Feb 26 15:13:42 <MohammadAG> not apt
Feb 26 15:14:22 <frals> is there any legal reason you would want to "*) catch packages of another phones,"?
Feb 26 15:14:27 * frals goes throu maemo-dev
Feb 26 15:49:21 <kerio> http://fatpita.net/?i=3585 <- we need a new nokia plan
Feb 26 15:55:04 <toresbe> Where's the joke?
Feb 26 15:55:30 <ZogG> MohammadAG, hey
Feb 26 15:55:36 <kerio> thatsthejoke.jpg
Feb 26 15:56:05 <toresbe> You mean the funny thing is that Nokia used to make shoes? I knew that.
Feb 26 15:56:08 <DocScrutinizer> toadpole: refresh the http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Flashing_the_eMMC_in_the_N900, read the full page, most of your questions been answered there
Feb 26 16:07:11 <luke-jr> is there an app that shares GPS info on XMPP status msg with more frequency?
Feb 26 16:07:31 <luke-jr> ideally with privacy controls to not share location within a defined area
Feb 26 16:15:30 <villager> kerio: besides... nokiapland.com already covers it, no?
Feb 26 16:22:03 <ZogG> we should invite graf_choloko to maemo devs =)
Feb 26 16:33:04 <RST38h> http://www.h-online.com/open/features/Nokia-and-open-source-a-trial-by-fire-1194928.html
Feb 26 16:47:21 <alterego> That's a popular link today.
Feb 26 17:39:55 <DocScrutinizer> that's also a quite well written article
Feb 26 17:40:13 <DocScrutinizer> and seriously to the point
Feb 26 17:43:06 <SpeedEvil> Meh.
Feb 26 17:45:55 <SpeedEvil> I wrote a page or so reply to that, and it seems to have gotten eaten.
Feb 26 17:51:48 <RST38h> Would there be iPhones, iPads and iPods on the market today if Sun Microsystems had been able to close a deal to buy out Apple in the mid-1990s? No, says McNealy. 'If we had bought Apple, there wouldn't have been iPods or iPads ... I'd have screwed that up.
Feb 26 17:52:23 <luke-jr> s/'d//
Feb 26 17:52:42 * SpeedEvil ponders if the world would be a better place.
Feb 26 17:53:12 <steve___> Is there a way, on the n900, to buzz when a new email shows up, via imap, in a specific non-inbox folder?
Feb 26 17:55:22 <MohammadAG> ~ping
Feb 26 17:55:23 <infobot> ~pong
Feb 26 17:58:58 <merlin1991> steve___, afaik modest only supports the inbox folder in imap
Feb 26 18:02:51 <steve___> merlin1991: ok thank you
Feb 26 18:04:00 * fil just installed lxp's bleeding edge wifi kernel packages, and now my n900's in a reboot loop -- is it likely that I can just stick an old kernel on to fix this, or will I need a full reflash?
Feb 26 18:04:11 <dado7> any people speak spanish ?
Feb 26 18:06:12 <dado7> i installed fcam driver n900 phone, and instaled others software and codecs... and in this time not work the camera :(   any solution ?
Feb 26 18:06:38 <ruskie> fil, you can try
Feb 26 18:06:43 <ruskie> dado7, what???
Feb 26 18:07:00 <fil> ruskie: fair enough -- will do
Feb 26 18:07:30 <ruskie> fil, if the issue is just the kernel... it should work
Feb 26 18:08:03 <dado7> excussme for my bad english. i m speaker spanish. i have fail with camera, dont work. this is after install fcam drivers and others hit for the camera
Feb 26 18:08:28 <fil> ruskie: I think that's all, so I'll give it a try (after I've eaten something ...)
Feb 26 18:08:31 <ruskie> what fcam drivers???
Feb 26 18:08:34 <dado7> and my question is, can i reinstall the factory camera drivers ?
Feb 26 18:09:07 <dado7> fcam is soft to best photos camera
Feb 26 18:09:19 <dado7> you can google about this
Feb 26 18:12:08 <ruskie> so remove it
Feb 26 18:12:23 <dado7> i remove.....
Feb 26 18:12:42 <dado7> and dont resolve...
Feb 26 18:13:05 <toadpole> ( dado7 ): that had happened to me as well
Feb 26 18:13:25 <toadpole> what i did was remove all camera related apps
Feb 26 18:13:49 <dado7> the las week, i install diferents apps to camera
Feb 26 18:14:04 <toadpole> just remove everything related to the camera
Feb 26 18:14:14 <toadpole> then install one by one and see which one is the problem
Feb 26 18:14:21 <dado7> okey
Feb 26 18:14:25 <dado7>  i try this
Feb 26 18:15:12 <alterego> javispedro: ping
Feb 26 18:15:38 <javispedro> hi alterego
Feb 26 18:15:55 <javispedro> alterego: just pondering if you're going to or are using sqlite for waypoint storage in columbus?
Feb 26 18:15:57 * RST38h moos at javispedro, circles the arena
Feb 26 18:16:10 <toadpole> you think i'd be able to write the meego image to my microsd using my phone in mass storage mode?
Feb 26 18:16:30 <ruskie> toadpole, why not just do it on-device ?
Feb 26 18:16:40 <alterego> javispedro: I am yes
Feb 26 18:16:43 <alterego> Using it that is.
Feb 26 18:16:50 <MohammadAG> ruskie, that would take hours
Feb 26 18:16:54 <MohammadAG> and the device would surely hang
Feb 26 18:17:02 <ruskie> MohammadAG, not really
Feb 26 18:17:10 <MohammadAG> oh, right, uSD
Feb 26 18:17:27 <MohammadAG> sorry, I have MeeGo on the eMMC
Feb 26 18:17:27 <ruskie> but from my experience any uSD reader so far that I've tried was crap performance wise
Feb 26 18:17:42 <MohammadAG> writing to the eMMC takes ages
Feb 26 18:17:45 <toadpole> i have a class 10 microsd, would that help?
Feb 26 18:17:52 <MohammadAG> ask ShadowJK
Feb 26 18:17:56 <javispedro> alterego: I'm extending my garmin protocol talking daemon to be able to exchange waypoints+tracks. For the time being I'm writing them on my own sqlite db but since I don't want to write a "viewer" I'll use your apps format, if you don't mind =)
Feb 26 18:18:06 <ruskie> if I were to put the uSD into a SD adapter it would always work a lot lot faster
Feb 26 18:18:20 <SpeedEvil> javispedro: random - #openstreetmap over on irc.oftc.net
Feb 26 18:18:25 <alterego> javispedro: sounds good :)
Feb 26 18:18:50 <dado7> alterego hablas mi idioma ?
Feb 26 18:19:00 <alterego> dado7: I have no idea what you're saying
Feb 26 18:19:05 <alterego> This is an English speaking channel.
Feb 26 18:19:07 <dado7> jijii
Feb 26 18:19:08 <alterego> Speak English
Feb 26 18:19:15 <ruskie> I'm guessing if you speak his language...
Feb 26 18:19:19 <dado7> your nick ... is spanish
Feb 26 18:19:20 <ruskie> was the quesiton ;)
Feb 26 18:19:35 <javispedro> (note that what I want is to use mapsource, ozi, gpsbabel, or some other grm protocol program to manage waypoints and track logs on my n900, not to talk to a true garmin device)
Feb 26 18:19:40 <alterego> I think someone has told me this before.
Feb 26 18:20:17 <javispedro> dado7: most latin derived languages read similarly
Feb 26 18:20:50 <toadpole> are the meego repositories as full as the maemo ones?
Feb 26 18:22:03 <dado7> i know javispedro
Feb 26 18:24:28 <DocScrutinizer> dado7: your english is just good enough, don't worry. Our Spanish for sure is worse ;-D
Feb 26 18:25:03 <ruskie> I do wonder if google translate might have helped with understanding...
Feb 26 18:25:19 <dado7> jajaja, sometimes is hard to try, but i hope can understand me
Feb 26 18:25:32 <DocScrutinizer> no problem :-)
Feb 26 18:25:43 <dado7> you right ruskie
Feb 26 18:25:54 <ruskie> atleast with the initial question
Feb 26 18:26:52 <toadpole> ( dado7 ): eliminar todas las aplicaciones relacionadas con la cámara, instale uno por uno y ver cuál está causando problemas
Feb 26 18:27:19 <dado7> The camera does not work, install third party applications
Feb 26 18:27:28 <toadpole> lets hope google translate's spanish is up to scratch
Feb 26 18:27:47 <javispedro> hm
Feb 26 18:28:19 <dado7> Can you reinstall the application of the camera?
Feb 26 18:28:49 <dado7> okey toadpole
Feb 26 18:28:59 <DocScrutinizer> toadpole: He has understood that for all I can tell. No need to start اللغات الأجنبية الشر
Feb 26 18:29:04 <javispedro> dado7: I'm trying to pm you.
Feb 26 19:01:16 <user> H'all
Feb 26 19:03:23 <Rodrigo> Is Ubuntu already working on n8x0?
Feb 26 19:08:21 <villager> hah, now my program can submit queries to and parse phone directory webpages to look up phone numbers... now I just need to find a way to be notified of the phone number of anyone calling me, and I'll have a nice caller id program... hmm...
Feb 26 19:08:47 <Rodrigo> villager: Cool
Feb 26 19:10:25 <ruskie> interesting
Feb 26 19:10:30 <ruskie> assuming the number is listed...
Feb 26 19:10:38 <ruskie> btw do you also support .tel domains?
Feb 26 19:12:13 <villager> .tel domains? I just want to look up phone numbers...
Feb 26 19:12:37 <ruskie> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/.tel
Feb 26 19:12:45 <ruskie> it's meant for such information as well ;)
Feb 26 19:12:50 <ruskie> i.e. any contact info
Feb 26 19:13:03 <villager> is that actually a useful way to look up most phone numbers?
Feb 26 19:13:24 <ruskie> However tel is about publishing contact data: phone numbers, SIP addresses and so on directly in the DNS, not on html-based websites.
Feb 26 19:13:27 <ruskie> no clue
Feb 26 19:14:45 <villager> the way I do it now is that I have a config file that says how to submit the http request and how to parse the webpage, so anyone could customize the thing to the online directory service of their country...
Feb 26 19:15:30 <villager> more flexibility like multiple source websites (or even dns lookups?) can probably be added later...
Feb 26 19:17:57 <DocScrutinizer> villager: dbus-monitor, check out dbus-scripting pkg
Feb 26 19:18:50 <villager> DocScrutinizer: yeah, now I just need someone other than the telemarketers who's interested in calling me...
Feb 26 19:19:00 <DocScrutinizer> LOL
Feb 26 19:21:06 <DocScrutinizer> s/interested in /willing to do me a favour by/
Feb 26 19:21:42 <villager> if there are no docs I can read instead, guess it'll have to wait until monday, then I can ask people at work
Feb 26 19:21:53 <DocScrutinizer> too bad when no landline in a mile
Feb 26 19:22:02 * alterego continues working on his Qml dialer
Feb 26 19:22:26 * MohammadAG wonders how that'll work :P
Feb 26 19:22:33 <MohammadAG> alterego, MeeGo?
Feb 26 19:23:00 <alterego> yer
Feb 26 19:23:05 <MohammadAG> Ah
Feb 26 19:23:18 <MohammadAG> Orientation lock, for the hell of it http://i53.tinypic.com/23ixqmh.jpg
Feb 26 20:01:26 <DocScrutinizer> if  (dbus-scripting trigger: [path=/com/nokia/csd/call; interface=com.nokia.csd.Call; member=Coming]   object path "/com/nokia/csd/call/1"   string "$NUMBER").$NUMBER=="+49.*"; then  http://www.klicktel.de/inverssuche/index/search?method=searchSimple&_dvform_posted=1&phoneNumber=$NUMBER
Feb 26 20:08:14 <DocScrutinizer> villager: I'm happy to give you another testcall when needed
Feb 26 20:08:27 <DocScrutinizer> ping me on DocScrutinizer51
Feb 26 20:23:28 <villager> DocScrutinizer: ok, but probably won't be before tomorrow... gonna watch movies and stuff the rest of the evening
Feb 26 20:24:37 <DocScrutinizer51> np, anytime you like
Feb 26 20:57:51 <RaveniquE> hello
Feb 26 20:59:19 <RaveniquE> I can't play videos, if I use overclock, using v46 kernel. If I don't use enchanced kernel then I can play them, dunno what to do. Can anything related with voltage adjustment or frequency be the reason?
Feb 26 21:02:58 <RaveniquE> any idea?
Feb 26 21:04:01 <steve___> Is it possible to use something like fdm to sync email with modest?  Meaning if I sync email with fdm will I get a notification from modest?
Feb 26 21:14:12 <RaveniquE> I need ideas please!
Feb 26 21:18:34 <DocScrutinizer51> RaveniquE: avoid overclocking!
Feb 26 21:18:59 <DocScrutinizer51> ~tell RaveniquE about omap-oc
Feb 26 21:20:37 <DocScrutinizer51> RaveniquE: hope you got an idea why OC is *BAD* and why bitching aout video playback breaking on OC is silly
Feb 26 21:22:29 <Sicelo> ~tell Sicelo about omap-oc
Feb 26 21:22:33 <DocScrutinizer51> for all I know PK46 should work OK with video playback, as long as used on standard settings for freq and core voltage
Feb 26 21:30:43 <RaveniquE> will give a fresh try, I get the idea, but I guess I am happy with @900 mhz. It is stable for me, except multi-tasked surfing sometimes
Feb 26 21:31:21 <RaveniquE> Even you don't like OC thing, it makes me feel like "oooh, It feels faster" :P
Feb 26 21:33:46 <kerio> yeah but you're stupid
Feb 26 21:35:40 <RaveniquE> I wouldn't say that, if I can afford another one for a spare. I wanted to know if there's a solution and you say I'm stupid.
Feb 26 21:37:54 <luke-jr> RaveniquE: you are stupid.
Feb 26 21:38:46 <RaveniquE> Offense wouldn't help.
Feb 26 21:50:44 <Turtle^^> hey all
Feb 26 21:51:25 <Turtle^^> was just wondering can i repartition mmcblk0p2?
Feb 26 21:51:38 <Turtle^^> and move a bit of swap there
Feb 26 21:51:53 <Turtle^^> and turn off the mmblk0p3
Feb 26 21:52:24 <Turtle^^> can this be done?
Feb 26 21:53:36 <ShadowJK> There's a thread on tmo about repartitioning
Feb 26 21:53:45 <ShadowJK> I think the common approach is to make the vfat partition smaller
Feb 26 21:54:00 <ShadowJK> It's all kinda tricky so I wouldn't do it without reading about it first
Feb 26 21:54:30 <DocScrutinizer> easiest way is with a patched VANILLA imahe
Feb 26 21:54:33 * MohammadAG used gparted
Feb 26 21:54:34 <DocScrutinizer> image
Feb 26 21:54:39 <cehteh> Turtle^^: swap-files are meanwhile as fast as swap partitions on linux
Feb 26 21:55:01 <Turtle^^> which is the mmcblk0p1 (the fat32) one right? its 28gb
Feb 26 21:55:07 <DocScrutinizer> except that afaik maemo doesn't support them swapfiles
Feb 26 21:55:11 <ShadowJK> p1 is vfat, yes
Feb 26 21:55:28 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer, the kernel in maemo has a bug which makes them hang indefinitely :-)
Feb 26 21:55:34 <ShadowJK> also, 'filefrag' hangs
Feb 26 21:55:54 <cehteh> but biggier swap wont fix anything... just calculate the flash memory bandwidth and how long it will take to swap something in/out
Feb 26 21:56:27 <cehteh> ShadowJK: not indefenitely .. just very long .. once i forgot to reboot my device on such a hang and it eventually recovered
Feb 26 21:56:28 <Turtle^^> i have never used more then 200mb of swap as far as conky has reported
Feb 26 21:56:31 <ShadowJK> Actually bigger swap makes it take longer before swap fragmentation becomes an issue :P
Feb 26 21:56:36 <DocScrutinizer> Turtle^^: for patching VANILLA prior to flashing eMMC see http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
Feb 26 21:57:20 <Turtle^^> thanks
Feb 26 21:57:55 <DocScrutinizer> of course you can insert a uSD with a swap partition, swapon uSD, sawpoff eMMC, then edit partitions to split swap partition mmcblk0p3 into two
Feb 26 21:58:27 <DocScrutinizer> then reboot immediately, to reread the partiton table
Feb 26 21:59:20 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: no
Feb 26 21:59:24 <DocScrutinizer> no?
Feb 26 21:59:29 <DocScrutinizer> what did I miss?
Feb 26 21:59:32 <luke-jr> uSD swap crashes Maemo for some reason
Feb 26 21:59:37 <DocScrutinizer> not here
Feb 26 21:59:38 <Turtle^^> but y wud i split the mmcblk0p3
Feb 26 21:59:46 <luke-jr> …
Feb 26 22:00:03 <javispedro> not here either, though I don't enable it that often.
Feb 26 22:00:08 <DocScrutinizer> worked just fine
Feb 26 22:00:23 * ShadowJK uses uSD swap all the time
Feb 26 22:00:33 <DocScrutinizer> others say they use that config all the time
Feb 26 22:00:35 <luke-jr> weird
Feb 26 22:00:35 <Turtle^^> i was thinking about taking some space space from 0p2 or 0p1 in hopes that they maybe fatster
Feb 26 22:00:38 <DocScrutinizer> hehe
Feb 26 22:01:08 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: maybe your back cover magnet is loose? ;-P
Feb 26 22:01:26 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: no, it's in there fine
Feb 26 22:01:34 <luke-jr> how does the magnet affect the uSD?
Feb 26 22:01:56 <luke-jr> actually, I don't think it's even a magnet
Feb 26 22:01:57 <luke-jr> x.x
Feb 26 22:02:20 <DocScrutinizer> Turtle^^: eMMC is one flat 32GB storage chip, so mmcblk0pX are all same speed
Feb 26 22:03:05 <Turtle^^> :o
Feb 26 22:03:06 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: it IS a magnet, and it umounts and rmmods (or sth) the uSD driver
Feb 26 22:03:17 <Turtle^^> oooohkay!
Feb 26 22:04:48 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: quite obviously your swap on uSD will crash the whole system when back cover gets removed or "removed"
Feb 26 22:05:07 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: why?
Feb 26 22:05:24 <DocScrutinizer> duh? you're *still* asking why?
Feb 26 22:05:39 <SpeedEvil> Swap pages being not present does bad stuff.
Feb 26 22:05:46 <DocScrutinizer> unplug your HDD with swap on it from your desktop PC to learn why
Feb 26 22:05:50 * SpeedEvil proposed ages ago per-user swap.
Feb 26 22:05:52 <javispedro> luke-jr: try booting stock kernel with back cover removed, access sdcard.
Feb 26 22:05:53 <luke-jr> magnet removal might trigger an umount, but that would fail if it's swap in use
Feb 26 22:06:09 <luke-jr> magnet removal != uSD removal
Feb 26 22:06:09 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: NOPE
Feb 26 22:06:34 <ShadowJK> magnet removal causes pretty much the same behaviour as removing the uSD :-)
Feb 26 22:06:35 <DocScrutinizer> the low level kernel driver for the uSD slot even powers down the slot
Feb 26 22:07:04 <DocScrutinizer> so magnet removal == sd card removal
Feb 26 22:08:00 <DocScrutinizer> which part of ""... and rmmods (or sth) the uSD driver..." was too fuzzy?
Feb 26 22:08:51 <MohammadAG> hildon-home in portrait mode, PoC http://i56.tinypic.com/2wcjz1z.jpg
Feb 26 22:08:58 <ShadowJK> And it definitely is a magnet. The first Mugen back covers didn't have a magnet, so I smashed apart the headphones included with my N810 and harvested the tiny magnet in them, taped it to the cover, and microsd card worked again :-)
Feb 26 22:09:36 <DocScrutinizer> it's definitely the magnet that also holds the kickstand
Feb 26 22:10:02 <DocScrutinizer> the hall switch is next to that
Feb 26 22:11:40 <MohammadAG> ShadowJK, you could've patched the uSD driver so it always returns false :P
Feb 26 22:13:33 <Irctime_> :D
Feb 26 22:14:00 <Irctime_> this was me on usd swapon and removing the backcover :D
Feb 26 22:14:07 <Irctime_> device reboots instantly
Feb 26 22:14:11 <MohammadAG> lemme guess, reboot?
Feb 26 22:14:11 <MohammadAG> heh
Feb 26 22:14:36 <turtle^^> yea
Feb 26 22:17:30 <DocScrutinizer> Feb 26 23:13:56 IroN900 tracker-indexer[20992]: GLIB MESSAGE Tracker - HAL device:'/dev/mmcblk1p3' removed:
Feb 26 22:17:32 <DocScrutinizer> Feb 26 23:13:56 IroN900 tracker-indexer[20992]: GLIB MESSAGE Tracker -   UDI^I : /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/volume_part3_size_139460608
Feb 26 22:17:59 <MohammadAG> yeah, mafw actually has code to monitor the card
Feb 26 22:19:16 <DocScrutinizer> Feb 26 23:13:55 IroN900 ke_recv[10649]: prop_modified:1889: udi /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/platform_mmci_omap_hs_0_mmc_host modified button.state.value
Feb 26 22:19:18 <DocScrutinizer> Feb 26 23:13:55 IroN900 ke_recv[10649]: event_in_cover_closed:1209: E_OPENED for ext-MMC
Feb 26 22:19:55 <DocScrutinizer> Feb 26 23:13:55 IroN900 kernel: [84791.120025] mmc0: card 697b removed
Feb 26 22:23:21 <DocScrutinizer> btw mmcblk1p3 is a linux swap partition size 128MB on that uSD
Feb 26 22:24:43 <pupnik> what are you doing DocScrutinizer ?
Feb 26 22:26:12 <DocScrutinizer> nah, that uSd partitioning predates N900, it actually has kernel on a ~13GB VFAT p1 that'S also used for general data sharing and dump, p2 is ext3 holding a SHR system for FR, p3 are 128MB swap
Feb 26 22:27:08 <DocScrutinizer> s/ext3/ext3 rootfs/
Feb 26 22:27:09 <pupnik> has someone figured out a way to install the root filesystem to mmc / SD and bultiboot that?
Feb 26 22:27:09 <infobot> DocScrutinizer meant: nah, that uSd partitioning predates N900, it actually has kernel on a ~13GB VFAT p1 that'S also used for general data sharing and dump, p2 is ext3 rootfs holding a SHR system for FR, p3 are 128MB swap
Feb 26 22:27:11 <turtle^^> so as you said emmc is one big 32gb thing, no matter where the swap is it wont have any effects on speed right? cuz thats what i wanted but i guess it can only give us more space if we make the swap smaller, thats the only benefit we can get right?
Feb 26 22:28:02 <DocScrutinizer> turtle^^: ack for the speed part - sorry "can't parse" for the rest
Feb 26 22:28:31 <pupnik> he wants to make swap smaller to get 'more space'
Feb 26 22:28:52 <alterego> What, 5 megs? :D
Feb 26 22:29:08 <alterego> swap is 512M
Feb 26 22:29:15 <alterego> Do you really need that?
Feb 26 22:29:30 <DocScrutinizer> turtle^^: one suggested solution to the swap fragmentation was to split the way too huge 750MB swap int two, then do a swapon 1&&swapoff 2 every 24h
Feb 26 22:29:56 <pupnik>  Swap:       786424       139996       646428    on my device
Feb 26 22:29:56 <turtle^^> no i dont want a smaller swap .. just wanted to speed it up
Feb 26 22:30:13 <javispedro> pupnik: I think that yes, someone cloned maemo to mmc and booted it from there (iirc the problem was pin entry dialog crashing)
Feb 26 22:30:31 <DocScrutinizer> turtle^^: resucing fragmentation will speed up swapping
Feb 26 22:30:38 <DocScrutinizer> ask ShadowJK
Feb 26 22:30:59 <turtle^^> hmm
Feb 26 22:31:26 <DocScrutinizer> turtle^^: that's the root cause for "device gets sluggish after 3 days uptime" issue
Feb 26 22:31:40 <turtle^^> aha
Feb 26 22:31:52 <turtle^^> i dont mind rebooting device hehe
Feb 26 22:32:50 <ShadowJK> What I do: swap on a separate partition on uSD. With "iostat -m" (part of sysstat in extras-devel), when the amount of bytes written to swap partition exceeds the size of swap partition, I swapon internal mmcblk0p3 swap, swapoff usd, swapon usd, swapoff mmcblk0p3. Typically after 2-4 days of "normal" use the amount written to swap has become big enough to warrant the swapon,swapoff,swapon,swapoff cycle. Or, an hour or two of fennec use :P
Feb 26 22:32:58 <DocScrutinizer> only other tuning for swap is moving it to uSD, so the interface to eMMC doesn'T get congested with swapping while it should read/write to files
Feb 26 22:34:15 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: nice :-))) mind to share the exact scripts?
Feb 26 22:34:59 <turtle^^> cool
Feb 26 22:35:17 <turtle^^> maybe have both the swap partitions on usd
Feb 26 22:35:26 <turtle^^> and swapon/off there
Feb 26 22:35:34 <DocScrutinizer> can do that as well
Feb 26 22:35:34 <turtle^^> emmc remains untouched
Feb 26 22:35:39 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Feb 26 22:35:50 <javispedro> moving it to swap makes the device go quickly hot here
Feb 26 22:35:57 <javispedro> (so I guess it reduces battery life)
Feb 26 22:35:58 <DocScrutinizer> so you don't need to move all the swapped out pages TWO times
Feb 26 22:36:05 <javispedro> *moving it to sd :P
Feb 26 22:36:07 <ShadowJK> http://enivax.net/jk/n900/reswap.sh.txt adjust it for your needs, etc
Feb 26 22:36:16 <ShadowJK> echo 0 > reswap.stat on boot
Feb 26 22:36:20 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: you're a hero
Feb 26 22:36:34 <ShadowJK> I just manually run it whenever device starts feeling sluggish
Feb 26 22:37:32 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer, no problem. you can help me with some highschool-level electronics later :P
Feb 26 22:37:37 <pupnik> has anyone re-attached their flaky usb?
Feb 26 22:37:45 <mortenvp> Hi guys, trying to do a: "sudo mad-admin create -f fremantle-pr13"
Feb 26 22:37:47 <DocScrutinizer> a please :-D
Feb 26 22:37:53 <DocScrutinizer> a pleasure
Feb 26 22:38:15 <DocScrutinizer> grr, if I manage to kickstart the other half of my brain until then ;-)
Feb 26 22:38:23 <mortenvp> But it fails with a: "Can not find '/usr/lib/madde/linux-x86_64/cache/fremantle-arm-sysroot-20.2010.36-2-slim.tar.gz' -- no such file."
Feb 26 22:38:46 <nox-> moin
Feb 26 22:38:55 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: nothing heard about such execise, but should be simple
Feb 26 22:39:09 <DocScrutinizer> ohno, abill-uk did :-P
Feb 26 22:39:28 <Macer> so with the advent of winmob on nokia phones... how will maemo fair?
Feb 26 22:39:42 <mortenvp> Any advise on how to get the fremantle target.. A url or something?
Feb 26 22:39:49 <ShadowJK> Well Maemo was already buried before winmob :P
Feb 26 22:39:54 <Macer> heh
Feb 26 22:40:07 * pupnik looks at maemo and thinks it's basically awesome
Feb 26 22:40:07 <Macer> the meego stuff is getting there on the n900
Feb 26 22:40:19 <Macer> yeah pupnik it is a shame really
Feb 26 22:40:28 <Macer> they really dropped the ball with maemo
Feb 26 22:40:33 <DocScrutinizer> maemo isn't dead until they roll out the poisoned m6
Feb 26 22:40:43 <Macer> hah
Feb 26 22:40:49 <Macer> isnt't meego m6?
Feb 26 22:40:50 <Macer> :)
Feb 26 22:41:15 <Macer> i like what stskeeps is trying to do tho
Feb 26 22:41:20 <DocScrutinizer> m6 maemo-harmattan meego lookalike BS
Feb 26 22:41:36 <Macer> trying to open up the n900 as much as he can to get it in the mainstream arm kernel
Feb 26 22:42:08 <DocScrutinizer> while sacrificing all the real good things in maemo
Feb 26 22:42:21 <DocScrutinizer> without any need
Feb 26 22:42:25 <Macer> sounds like a backport
Feb 26 22:43:03 <DocScrutinizer> CSSU is the real effort to get maemo to a state where it's 100% upstream ready
Feb 26 22:43:13 <javispedro> well.
Feb 26 22:43:17 <Macer> well. maemo isnt the problem
Feb 26 22:43:19 <pupnik> i hate people who say 'nokia has no ecosystem' - what are we?  chopped liver?
Feb 26 22:43:26 <Macer> nokia/ti is ;)
Feb 26 22:43:37 <Macer> afa the n900 is concerned
Feb 26 22:43:54 <SpeedEvil> pupnik: We're what remains after the planes with the agent orange in have been over.
Feb 26 22:44:06 <MohammadAG> so many things that could've been fixed, if stuff was open source
Feb 26 22:44:09 * javispedro shouts STANDARD NERDS! then goes back to typing ROLLBACK TRANSACTION TO SAVEPOINT ...
Feb 26 22:44:24 <MohammadAG> if a hildon-home in portrait mode concept took less than 5 minutes
Feb 26 22:44:37 <MohammadAG> it only proves that in 1 year, there was no effort to get it done
Feb 26 22:45:10 <turtle^^> sigh
Feb 26 22:45:50 <pupnik> MohammadAG: what would you want to do in portrait mode.  1) phone  2) sms  3)....?
Feb 26 22:45:51 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: ooooh, that's been a nice one :-)
Feb 26 22:46:09 <MohammadAG> phone works fine
Feb 26 22:46:23 <MohammadAG> conversations just needs the portrait flag and minor fixes
Feb 26 22:46:26 <DocScrutinizer> actually I feel like having taken a deep breath of agent orange
Feb 26 22:46:37 <MohammadAG> mediaplayer needs a whole new layout, can be easily done
Feb 26 22:46:41 <Macer> you can put hildon in portrait?
Feb 26 22:46:41 <ShadowJK> Would be cool to have fontsize change back in conversations
Feb 26 22:46:48 <turtle^^> whats an agent orange ?
Feb 26 22:46:52 <DocScrutinizer> in fact I did - well sorta - some 30 yeard ago
Feb 26 22:46:54 <jacekowski> turtle^^: google it
Feb 26 22:46:59 <jacekowski> turtle^^: it's a defoliant
Feb 26 22:47:02 <MohammadAG> Macer, concept: http://i56.tinypic.com/2wcjz1z.jpg
Feb 26 22:47:03 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: And has been for OMP?
Feb 26 22:47:13 <MohammadAG> Jaffa, yeah
Feb 26 22:47:48 <Macer> MohammadAG: that was some sort of "bug"
Feb 26 22:48:06 <Macer> i thought that was some sort of debugging thing
Feb 26 22:48:09 <pupnik> DocScrutinizer: did you spend some time in vietnam in 1980?
Feb 26 22:48:09 <MohammadAG> Macer, no, it's my edits to hildon-desktop's code...
Feb 26 22:48:14 <Macer> oh
Feb 26 22:48:30 <MohammadAG> Jaffa, http://gitorious.org/qt-mediaplayer/mediaplayer/blobs/master/nowplayingwindow.cpp#line243
Feb 26 22:48:46 <DocScrutinizer51> pupnik: they sold the same shit to varnish your wood ceiling in Europe
Feb 26 22:49:03 <DocScrutinizer51> google xyladecor
Feb 26 22:49:08 <Macer> well... the maemo base is all in place for the n900
Feb 26 22:49:27 <MohammadAG> Macer, the "bug" you mentioned kept widgets aligned horizontally
Feb 26 22:49:36 <Macer> MohammadAG: yeah
Feb 26 22:49:37 <MohammadAG> my edit unlocks positioning, although it's not neat
Feb 26 22:49:52 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer51: only in germany
Feb 26 22:49:54 <Macer> the status bar would also fall off the screen
Feb 26 22:50:04 <DocScrutinizer51> oh
Feb 26 22:50:17 <MohammadAG> Jaffa's trying to get an algorithm for this
Feb 26 22:50:25 <DocScrutinizer51> well, dosn't help me out ;-D
Feb 26 22:50:36 <Macer> either way... maemo has all the parts required for the n900
Feb 26 22:51:10 <Macer> all it would really need is either a better hildon or a new interface
Feb 26 22:51:14 * Jaffa might mock something up.
Feb 26 22:51:21 <Jaffa> Algorithmically, not graphically :-)
Feb 26 22:51:22 <MohammadAG> hildon is epic
Feb 26 22:51:33 <Jaffa> I love my N900. Just wish it was faster and had some bugs fixed.
Feb 26 22:51:33 <MohammadAG> it just needs someone to pick it up
Feb 26 22:51:53 <MohammadAG> same
Feb 26 22:51:57 <Macer> MohammadAG: it is pretty good. but there are no devs that want to do much with it
Feb 26 22:52:22 <MohammadAG> alterego, ever thought about something? in Qt we listen to screen size changed, in some gtk apps, the apps listen to mce signals
Feb 26 22:52:34 <Macer> since in 5 years n900s will be collectors items
Feb 26 22:52:40 <Macer> :)
Feb 26 22:52:42 <MohammadAG> that means layout fixing starts after rotation
Feb 26 22:52:51 <MohammadAG> Macer, that's the problem
Feb 26 22:52:59 <MohammadAG> I'm actually excited about Cordia
Feb 26 22:53:06 <Macer> cordia?
Feb 26 22:53:12 <MohammadAG> MeeGo + Hildon
Feb 26 22:53:17 <Macer> oh
Feb 26 22:53:25 <Macer> i saw a yt video of it
Feb 26 22:54:32 <Macer> i just hope meego supports all the n900 hw before 2015
Feb 26 22:54:53 <jonwil> I think that if Nokia can help with http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Open_development/Why_the_closed_packages#List_of_outstanding_requests_that_are_still_relevant, we can do great things with the N900 :)
Feb 26 22:55:16 <SpeedEvil> Indeed!
Feb 26 22:55:47 <SpeedEvil> We could all buy a share, and go to the next stockholders meeting. :)
Feb 26 22:55:54 <jonwil> it would be even better if we could have source code to thinks like the dialer app. But that's never going to happen :(
Feb 26 22:56:01 <pupnik> DocScrutinizer51: why do they outlaw all decent wood-protection :/
Feb 26 22:57:06 <DocScrutinizer51> it doesn't taste good enough. It's concidered cruel to offer such evel stuff for suicide
Feb 26 22:57:15 <pupnik> jonwil: is there a meego dialer app yet?
Feb 26 22:57:37 <jonwil> no idea.
Feb 26 22:57:55 <jonwil> But even if there is, there is no way its going to be a suitable replacement for the maemo dialer app on maemo.
Feb 26 22:58:02 <javispedro> of course there is, pupnik.
Feb 26 22:58:10 <javispedro> wheter it sucks or not...
Feb 26 22:58:16 <pupnik> javispedro: can it run on maemo?
Feb 26 22:58:24 <jonwil> the maemo dialer app is tied to too many other things to be replaced easily
Feb 26 22:58:32 <javispedro> pupnik: for a start it will require ofono.
Feb 26 22:58:36 <mortenvp> Hi guys, I'm looking for the following file: fremantle-arm-sysroot-20.2010.36-2-slim.tar.gz is it available somewhere
Feb 26 22:58:59 <MohammadAG> Qt SDK installer should dl it
Feb 26 23:00:19 <mortenvp> MohammadAG, ok - so do I have to use the Nokia Qt SDK to get it.. I was hoping I could download it and use it with madde without installing the Nokia Qt SDK
Feb 26 23:00:35 <MohammadAG> ah, not sure, sorry
Feb 26 23:01:14 <pupnik> my app manager no-longer shows the pr 1.3 ota update... what can i apt-get to do the pr 1.3 update?  i have Linux Nokia-N900-51-1 2.6.28-omap1
Feb 26 23:01:45 <yigal> what is the command line command to start easy debian chroot, I want to start a session via ssh?
Feb 26 23:01:47 <pupnik> apt-get install mp-fremantle-203-pr  ?
Feb 26 23:03:14 <javispedro> pupnik: got a n900?
Feb 26 23:03:21 <pupnik> javispedro: fixed the waterdamaged one!
Feb 26 23:03:27 <javispedro> O.O
Feb 26 23:03:42 <pupnik> alcohol DOES solve some problems :D
Feb 26 23:03:51 <javispedro> heh
Feb 26 23:03:58 <javispedro> after so many months, and it survived? impressive!
Feb 26 23:04:16 <pupnik> it's beautiful... /me tears
Feb 26 23:04:25 <yigal> really no one has ever wanted to start debian chroot via ssh?
Feb 26 23:04:44 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: haha :-D
Feb 26 23:05:12 <javispedro> pupnik: you can consider yourself very lucky =)
Feb 26 23:05:18 <pupnik> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch09#_chroot_system
Feb 26 23:05:19 <DocScrutinizer> indeed
Feb 26 23:05:46 <yigal> yes, but if I remember there are special scripts for Easy Debian
Feb 26 23:05:52 <yigal> that makes ure to mount things properly
Feb 26 23:06:00 <javispedro> yigal: I suggest you ask on talk.maemo.org where the author posts some times
Feb 26 23:06:10 * javispedro uses his own chrooter at this point
Feb 26 23:06:13 <luke-jr> I wish Quassel2Go had a more X-Chat like UI
Feb 26 23:06:17 <yigal> qoles a very cool dude
Feb 26 23:06:28 <luke-jr> with channels on the left and change via the volume control
Feb 26 23:07:05 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: maybe switch to xchat?
Feb 26 23:07:20 <yigal> irssi
Feb 26 23:07:27 <DocScrutinizer> blargh
Feb 26 23:07:53 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: xchat loses out on stuff people say when I lose signal :P
Feb 26 23:08:06 <DocScrutinizer> ooh I see
Feb 26 23:09:32 <DocScrutinizer> well, probably it'd be easy to patch sth like ZNC a tiny bit, and patch xchat just so uch as to send a ACK for each pkt sent by ZNC
Feb 26 23:10:09 <DocScrutinizer> ZNC already supports buffering and playback on connect, it just needs a bit faster disconnect on conection stall
Feb 26 23:11:54 <RaveniquE> goodnight everybody
Feb 26 23:12:46 <pupnik> znc sounds good
Feb 26 23:12:52 <DocScrutinizer> actually I'm a bit pizzled about IRC being tcp and still it doesn't norice about lost packets
Feb 26 23:12:59 <DocScrutinizer> notice*
Feb 26 23:13:07 <DocScrutinizer> and puzzled*
Feb 26 23:13:22 * DocScrutinizer heads to the corner, weeping
Feb 26 23:13:35 <ShadowJK> it's generally a bit cumbersome from an app to figure out what packets have made it to the other side and what hasn't
Feb 26 23:13:44 <SpeedEvil> TCP is only badly affected y lost pacets at >25% or so
Feb 26 23:13:50 <SpeedEvil> Interactrive TCP
Feb 26 23:13:56 * SpeedEvil played a lot of MUDs
Feb 26 23:14:04 <pupnik> :)
Feb 26 23:14:08 <luke-jr> OMFG
Feb 26 23:14:10 <jonwil> btw I am 100% convinced that it would be possible to figure out all the non-UI stuff needed to write a dialer replacement, it would just be a matter of finding someone familiar with Telepathy, Mission Control, osso, dbus, libhal and glib
Feb 26 23:14:17 <SpeedEvil> When exponential backoff kicks in, it gets unpleasant.
Feb 26 23:14:26 <luke-jr> Quassel2Go doesn't support downloading backscroll at all
Feb 26 23:14:28 <luke-jr> idiots
Feb 26 23:14:30 <luke-jr> wtf is the point
Feb 26 23:14:34 <ShadowJK> lol
Feb 26 23:14:50 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: ZNC playback supports timestamps and such?
Feb 26 23:14:56 <DocScrutinizer> sure
Feb 26 23:15:00 <luke-jr> no
Feb 26 23:15:01 <ShadowJK> From the "2go" part I assume they made a "mobile" version, and removed the one feature that makes standard quassel good for mobile use?
Feb 26 23:15:01 <luke-jr> it can't
Feb 26 23:15:06 <MohammadAG> it does
Feb 26 23:15:08 <luke-jr> IRC protocol doesn't allow forging timestamps
Feb 26 23:15:16 <MohammadAG> it isn't forging
Feb 26 23:15:20 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: yeah
Feb 26 23:15:23 <luke-jr> well, *someone* did
Feb 26 23:15:29 <luke-jr> MohammadAG: forging is what I want :p
Feb 26 23:15:33 <MohammadAG> [01:14:50] <luke-jr> IRC protocol doesn't allow forging timestamps
Feb 26 23:15:37 <MohammadAG> it does that ^
Feb 26 23:15:41 <ShadowJK> servers don't send timestamps to clients in general, not in any meaningful way anyway :)
Feb 26 23:15:48 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: that's the problem
Feb 26 23:15:51 <ShadowJK> But inter-server protocol is all about time stamps :)
Feb 26 23:15:59 <luke-jr> when I rejoin, I don't want everything in history timestamped as connect-time
Feb 26 23:15:59 <DocScrutinizer> ZNC does
Feb 26 23:16:01 <MohammadAG> let's patch freenode!
Feb 26 23:16:15 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: meh, maybe I'll try it
Feb 26 23:16:16 <ShadowJK> My N900 just never loses connectivity :>
Feb 26 23:16:24 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: impossible in the US :p
Feb 26 23:16:32 <luke-jr> N900 doesn't support any carrier with decent coverage
Feb 26 23:16:46 <DocScrutinizer> [00:15] <luke-jr> (00:13)  DocScrutinizer: ZNC playback supports timestamps and such?
Feb 26 23:16:48 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, to the client, the timestamp is connect-stamp sadly
Feb 26 23:17:08 <MohammadAG> if you have timestamps enabled in xchat that is
Feb 26 23:17:18 <luke-jr> -.-
Feb 26 23:17:40 * jonwil suspects that finding someone with telepathy skills is going to be almost impossible :P
Feb 26 23:17:41 <DocScrutinizer> first is xchat reception time, second is ZNC real send time
Feb 26 23:18:09 <MohammadAG> yeah, he wants the xchat time to be forged
Feb 26 23:18:18 <MohammadAG> which is something I've never seen
Feb 26 23:18:30 <pupnik> how do you guys turn-off the cell radio when you don't need it?
Feb 26 23:18:32 <DocScrutinizer> won't fly, that's locally generated
Feb 26 23:18:38 <MohammadAG> yep
Feb 26 23:18:48 <DocScrutinizer> IRC doesn't send timestamps
Feb 26 23:19:18 <SpeedEvil> pupnik: there is an applet
Feb 26 23:19:23 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: tablet mode
Feb 26 23:19:30 <DocScrutinizer> or airplane mode
Feb 26 23:19:33 <SpeedEvil> pupnik: Also - offlinemode sometimes
Feb 26 23:19:51 <pupnik> k... looking for that
Feb 26 23:20:01 <DocScrutinizer> powerbutton
Feb 26 23:20:15 <pupnik> lol ty
Feb 26 23:20:21 <SpeedEvil> powerbutton menu
Feb 26 23:20:23 <yigal> ok so that was easy enough after a bit of searching, mkdir ~/.debian2 && quserchroot /media/mmc1/debian-m5-v3e.img.ext2 ~/.debian2, or something similar
Feb 26 23:20:25 <psycho_oreos> there's alarmed that can set to airplane mode iirc
Feb 26 23:20:28 <pupnik> totally forgot about that menu
Feb 26 23:22:41 <DocScrutinizer> there's an update to alarmed that's nagging me every 24h, but has conflicts :-(
Feb 26 23:22:54 <MohammadAG> Qt?
Feb 26 23:23:00 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Feb 26 23:23:22 * jonwil thinks the idea of a maemo distmaster is a good idea
Feb 26 23:23:43 <MohammadAG> we have no distmaster
Feb 26 23:24:12 <jonwil> someone suggested becoming one and working with Nokia to release more code
Feb 26 23:24:13 <DocScrutinizer> that's why jonwil says it's a good idea ;-)
Feb 26 23:25:44 <jonwil> someone who could prepare code that is releasable for release and could also potentially fix bugs (and push binaries) in code that cant be released
Feb 26 23:26:40 <MohammadAG> I already asked if they could do that themselves
Feb 26 23:26:46 <MohammadAG> apparently, the devs can't
Feb 26 23:26:54 <jonwil> I think the issue is that
Feb 26 23:27:05 <jonwil> that Nokia doesn't have the resources to do anything
Feb 26 23:27:52 <divan> hmm.. while untarring archives (.ipk files, actually) I've got unexpected reboots on N900 a few times. Latest power kernel and swappolube enabled.
Feb 26 23:28:01 <yigal> jonwil: and by that you mean brain power in high up places
Feb 26 23:28:42 <jonwil> No, I mean people to review the code and remove anything that cant be released.
Feb 26 23:29:02 <jonwil> e.g. remove internal email addresses, intranet URLs and other such things
Feb 26 23:29:08 <yigal> yes I know that you didn't mean that, but I did
Feb 26 23:29:10 <Jaffa> jonwil: DocScrutinizer: Sent email to Nokia about pending licence changes. qgil's in Helsinki next week so will have some chats.
Feb 26 23:29:24 <jonwil> sounds good
Feb 26 23:30:06 <jonwil> That list of 8 or so requests covers all the closed source things that A.Have a valid use case for being opened up and B.Are actually likely to be opened up
Feb 26 23:30:25 <jonwil> The list doesn't include things people asked for without a valid use case
Feb 26 23:30:29 <pupnik> RST38h: btw i'd like to suggest changing controls in vulture's eye.. make the arrow keys do 'diagonals' only when combined with CTRL key
Feb 26 23:31:08 * MohammadAG wants the dialer open sourced
Feb 26 23:31:16 <jonwil> so do I
Feb 26 23:31:21 <MohammadAG> mediaplayer, not so much, already challenged Nokia there
Feb 26 23:31:24 <jonwil> but thats never going to happen
Feb 26 23:31:34 <pupnik> why not jonwil ?
Feb 26 23:31:46 <MohammadAG> pupnik, you can never be optimistic on #maemo :P
Feb 26 23:31:55 <jonwil> Nokia have already said that "User Experience/UI" is a "point of difference"
Feb 26 23:32:19 <pupnik> the UI of Dialer?
Feb 26 23:32:26 <jonwil> and thats why they wont open up their UX like the dialer or messaging app
Feb 26 23:32:42 <jonwil> Also, opening up the dialer pulls in a lot of other lower level stuff that they may not want to open or publish
Feb 26 23:32:55 <pupnik> ah i see
Feb 26 23:33:42 <jonwil> I am sure that Jaffa and others would agree with me that its not worth asking Nokia about the dialer when there are other things that are far more likely to be opened up that we can ask for
Feb 26 23:34:29 <MohammadAG> bme isn't one of them :p
Feb 26 23:34:49 <jonwil> yeah asking for BME to be opened wont help
Feb 26 23:35:03 <jonwil> but I think the 8 items we asked for have a reasonable chance of success
Feb 26 23:36:10 <jonwil> hildon-plugins-notify-sv should be possible, I suspect the main "secret sauce" in there would be in the way it controls audio routing and priority to ensure ringtones can override anything else being played
Feb 26 23:36:49 <MohammadAG> isn't that part of hildon-home?
Feb 26 23:36:54 <jonwil> no
Feb 26 23:36:57 <jonwil> its a separate package
Feb 26 23:36:59 <jonwil> called hildon-plugins-notify-sv
Feb 26 23:37:10 <jonwil> There is a notification daemon thats part of hildon-home
Feb 26 23:37:15 <jonwil> which loads the plugin hildon-plugins-notify-sv and talks to it
Feb 26 23:37:16 <MohammadAG> hildon-sv-notification-daemon
Feb 26 23:37:23 <MohammadAG> my bad
Feb 26 23:37:46 <jonwil> My guess is it was originally closed source because of the details of it talking to the audio stack
Feb 26 23:40:52 <jonwil> I think the main issue with the SMS code is that opening up libsms and csd-sms is going to require opening dev packages for libisi and stuff (they said in the past "no we cant open that stuff up because it pulls in the modem control protocol")
Feb 26 23:41:17 <jonwil> Although that was probably before ofono-n900 existed
Feb 26 23:41:18 <pupnik> fresh new battery is a nice thing
Feb 26 23:42:01 <jonwil> any argument of "we cant open this up because it exposes details of the cell modem" can likely be countered with "anything exposed by this will also be exposed by the ofono source code"
Feb 26 23:43:00 <pupnik> is ofono what the openmoko guys used?
Feb 26 23:43:14 <pupnik> nice jonwil
Feb 26 23:43:24 <jonwil> no, the FreeSmartPhone guys working on n900 are using ogsmd
Feb 26 23:43:42 <jonwil> although I think they borrowed bits of ofono code for it
Feb 26 23:44:38 <jonwil> The request for Fremantle MCE, not sure how likely that is, I guess it depends on whether there is anything left in there that is sensitive
Feb 26 23:44:45 <jonwil> and if there is, how hard it would be to remove
Feb 26 23:45:36 <MohammadAG> jonwil, http://maemo.gitorious.org/hildon-application-manager/mainline/merge_requests/2
Feb 26 23:45:50 <MohammadAG> the fact that something as easy as that is "Open" defines laziness :P
Feb 26 23:46:02 <RiD> Hi
Feb 26 23:46:26 <jonwil> :)
Feb 26 23:46:45 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: nope, OM/SHR is using FSO
Feb 26 23:47:01 <DocScrutinizer> where FSO >> ofono
Feb 26 23:47:45 <pupnik> ok and meego is using ofono?
Feb 26 23:47:59 <jonwil> I am hoping that the ICD request can be fulfulled
Feb 26 23:48:12 <jonwil> there are some good things that would be possible with some of the ICD stuff]
Feb 26 23:48:12 <DocScrutinizer> jonwil: ofono borrowed by FSO, FSO borrowed by ofono, both rely on openmodemapi specs
Feb 26 23:48:44 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: yep, afaik meego is based on ofono
Feb 26 23:48:56 <jonwil> actually ofono was written by Nokia employees and does actually contain code taken from the previous telephony stack
Feb 26 23:49:02 <jonwil> i.e. its not a cleanroom implementation
Feb 26 23:49:03 <DocScrutinizer> while I stopped to bitch on them to switch to FSO :-P
Feb 26 23:49:26 <DocScrutinizer> jonwil: sure
Feb 26 23:49:30 <DocScrutinizer> obviously
Feb 26 23:50:00 <DocScrutinizer> ofono just is plagued by severe NIH syndrome
Feb 26 23:51:00 * jonwil hopes N900 MeeGo gets GPS
Feb 26 23:51:22 <DocScrutinizer> afaik FSO has been there prior to ofono, but the ofono guys put down FSO offer to cooperate and join into one project, by the rationale of FSO being a mere AT interface to modem. Now ofono is more of a AT interface than FSO :-P
Feb 26 23:51:23 <SpeedEvil1> GPS is easy
Feb 26 23:51:46 <SpeedEvil1> We can do GPS today. Not AGPS -but...
Feb 26 23:52:12 <RiD> Hmm, i feel like i'm the little mouse hiding from those big cats.
Feb 26 23:52:26 <pupnik> hi RiD
Feb 26 23:52:30 <DocScrutinizer> FSO is a comprehensive middleware covering all from ofono/ISI over mce til alsa-ped
Feb 26 23:52:51 <MohammadAG> hey RiD
Feb 26 23:53:02 <RiD> pupnik: hi :)
Feb 26 23:53:02 <DocScrutinizer> while ofono became what they objected to FSO
Feb 26 23:53:22 <jonwil> All that we have for GPS at this point is an incomplete reverse engineering of a handful of the couple dozen packets sent to the GPS resourcfe
Feb 26 23:53:24 <jonwil> resource
Feb 26 23:53:34 <RiD> MohammadAG: Hi, I still remember the Snap to Grid failure i did.
Feb 26 23:53:49 <MohammadAG> set it to 0? :)
Feb 26 23:53:50 <SpeedEvil1> jonwil: It can connect to the GPS, and get a position.
Feb 26 23:54:04 <SpeedEvil1> jonwil: I agree APGS would benice
Feb 26 23:54:06 <DocScrutinizer> what we have for GPS is the complete specs for the cmt FW verion yet to come for N900 :-P
Feb 26 23:54:16 <RiD> MohammadAG: Yes, I promise i won't be half asleep anymore.
Feb 26 23:54:35 <MohammadAG> heh, you might be able to recover with R&D mode if you do it again :p
Feb 26 23:54:38 <jonwil> Last I heard the right people are working on porting the Maemo GPS stack to MeeGo with the intent of releasing it
Feb 26 23:55:23 <DocScrutinizer> so odds are meego never will see the GPS API for the cmt FW version we got on N900
Feb 26 23:55:31 * Arkenoi is still in confusion about auto rotation. It seems to be enabling and disabling in quite a random fashion. Say, i have it "enabled" in messaging, then i switch to fbreader, it is disabled there, i press ctrl-shift-R and whoops -- it is enabled in fbreader and instantly disabled in messaging
Feb 26 23:55:38 <RiD> Oh, talking about R&D mode, didn't disabled it. I'm really lazy when it comes to certain things.
Feb 26 23:56:21 <jonwil> I think what was said is that once its made to work, discussions about making bits of it open source will follow
Feb 26 23:56:44 <DocScrutinizer> RiD: R&D will eat your batery
Feb 26 23:56:46 <jonwil> I think there is no objection to releasing the GPS information, just that its easier to port the existing code than to write a new implemenation
Feb 26 23:57:28 <SpeedEvil1> Just dump the code.
Feb 26 23:57:38 <jonwil> dump what code?
Feb 26 23:57:42 <SpeedEvil1> I mean - who has a rapuyama GPS.
Feb 26 23:57:46 <DocScrutinizer> jonwil: this BS about "first implement then open" gets me upset every time they do that
Feb 26 23:57:47 <SpeedEvil1> It's not a commercial issue.
Feb 26 23:58:11 <jonwil> it may be that there are issues with proprietary algorithims used in the userspace bits
Feb 26 23:58:13 <RiD> DocScrutinizer: My battery never really lasted more than one day (before R&D and after). But will disable it, maybe tomorrow.
Feb 26 23:59:11 * SpeedEvil has real doubts as to 'magik seeeeekrit algorithms'.
Feb 26 23:59:18 <jonwil> in any case there is nothing more I can do as far as pushing for things to be opened (I would file a bug asking for dialer UI to be opened but I figure that would just be a waste of my time and everyone elses)
Feb 26 23:59:21 <SpeedEvil> After the whole BME thing.
Feb 26 23:59:37 <DocScrutinizer> ARRRRRGH
Feb 26 23:59:52 <DocScrutinizer> magic secret BS how to kill batteries
Feb 27 00:00:20 <pupnik> part of the problem is the software-patents that came out of the USA like a cancer
Feb 27 00:00:40 <DocScrutinizer> the only secret it there's no secret and they don't want to admit they have NFC about it
Feb 27 00:01:49 <DocScrutinizer> so when Nokia says "bme has secrets" they actually mean "bme is arcane... to us"
Feb 27 00:03:45 <DocScrutinizer> OTOH from what I heard Nokia might get sued for bodily and metal harm done to all of us, when disclosing the bme sources
Feb 27 00:04:41 <DocScrutinizer> and from what I've witnessed when RE'ing bme behaviour, I'm inclined to believe in that
Feb 27 00:05:33 <javispedro> mental, mental harm.
Feb 27 00:05:36 <DocScrutinizer> bme is the typical case where watching the actions of a program inevitably invokes nightmares about how the sourcecode will look like
Feb 27 00:05:48 <DocScrutinizer> lol, yeah
Feb 27 00:05:54 <DocScrutinizer> heavy mental harm
Feb 27 00:06:51 <SpeedEvil> There was an interesting talk at defcon 18 (17?) About using compiler to obfuscate asm.
Feb 27 00:07:47 <DocScrutinizer> so, just another time (I stopped counting): we DO NOT WANT BME DISCLOSED, please keep it, please delete and shredder it, a nine year old child probably would write a better program
Feb 27 00:10:03 <trumee> guys, how good does icedtea6 perform on N900. I know of a student who has to do a java based project. The student could develop something for N900.
Feb 27 00:15:49 <MohammadAG> javispedro, is finalize called when a widget is destroyed?
Feb 27 00:16:51 <javispedro> when any gobject is finally destroyed
Feb 27 00:19:39 <MohammadAG> so I should unref objects there right?
Feb 27 00:19:53 <javispedro> technically not, you should unref them in dispose
Feb 27 00:20:35 <javispedro> however, what are you doing that requires you do to override a finalizer?
Feb 27 00:21:30 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: fine :-) Hope you can convince him about the need for opensourcing more stuff for maemo, to back up whatever direction the Nokia FOSS ship is sailing (meego is based on maemo knowledge, and fails where it's not ;-D ), and maybe you can convnce him it's worth a few hundered bucks/month to support greatest community ever affiliated to Nokia
Feb 27 00:21:41 <MohammadAG> http://pastebin.com/ekujutML javispedro
Feb 27 00:21:59 <MohammadAG> javispedro, not sure, the docs had it in the example :P
Feb 27 00:22:43 <javispedro> MohammadAG: I see that you're defining a new gobject but I also see that you're missing a lot of the gobject boilerplate. :S
Feb 27 00:23:01 <MohammadAG> javispedro, .h file?
Feb 27 00:23:14 <javispedro> nope, orientation_lock_status_plugin_class_init
Feb 27 00:23:29 <javispedro> ah yes
Feb 27 00:23:34 <javispedro> sorry, I see it now.
Feb 27 00:23:54 <javispedro> but you should override the finalizer in the class init function.
Feb 27 00:24:25 <javispedro> MohammadAG: http://pastebin.com/Jn3QLg2u
Feb 27 00:24:34 <javispedro> see how it overrides both dispose and finalize
Feb 27 00:25:12 <javispedro> dispose used to unref owned objects, finalize used to anything else and final destruction
Feb 27 00:25:37 <MohammadAG> well, I just need to unref priv->gconf_client
Feb 27 00:26:05 <RiD> It's funny how many people are actually connected to this chat but only a few are talking. I do have to stop reading those monospaced Courier New characters, they're so small (of course i can use zoom but i'm lazy!) Going to sleep, I don't want to do half-asleep problems like i did before. Bye everyone ;)
Feb 27 00:26:28 <RiD> I mean, *room not chat. Well, it's a chat anyways.
Feb 27 00:26:57 <DocScrutinizer>  G_OBJECT_CLASS(grm_pvt_parent_class)->finalize(object);  \o/ I *love* c++ (while this is actually a macro not exactly related to c++ first instance)
Feb 27 00:27:44 <MohammadAG> isn't this C?
Feb 27 00:28:00 <DocScrutinizer> not sure, looks like c++ to me
Feb 27 00:28:09 <APTX> it's c
Feb 27 00:28:15 <javispedro> it's gobject C =)
Feb 27 00:28:19 <APTX> gobject crap is c
Feb 27 00:31:09 <jonwil> If we had libbmeipc headers, it would be trivial to write a drop-in BME replacement for maemo that supported all the BME bits that things like hald-addon-bme and pulseaudio-modules-nokia-closed-source require
Feb 27 00:44:39 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Feb 27 00:48:57 <pupnik> what's the better-font for terminal again
Feb 27 00:49:03 <pupnik> i have courier and it's too light
Feb 27 00:50:11 <pupnik> all the noise posters since n900 release on t.m.o really suck that site down
Feb 27 00:52:40 <psycho_oreos> I personally use android fonts for console
Feb 27 00:52:50 <psycho_oreos> s/console/XTerminal/
Feb 27 00:52:51 <infobot> psycho_oreos meant: I personally use android fonts for XTerminal
Feb 27 00:55:13 <DocScrutinizer> if Nokia came out with a rather silly industry standard requirements spec, as in "thermal: monitor R1130/ADCIN0 for >1255 := OVERTEMP, cell >75°C, stop charging, limit discharging to 500mA, <312 :=UNERTEMP, stop all charging. || 911: disable all protective functions on IPC telegram like in bmeipc.h struct signal-ISI-emergencycall || charging: CCCV 4.200V 800mA, follow bq27200 scheme for recharge...." we even could implemet a drop-in
Feb 27 00:55:15 <DocScrutinizer> replacement for bme that gives Nokia the cosy feeling that their battery is treated with all the love and care it deserves
Feb 27 00:58:04 <psycho_oreos> pupnik, Droid Sans Mono @ 12 is what I personally use
Feb 27 00:58:35 <pupnik> psycho_oreos: can you help jog my memory how to set the terminal font?
Feb 27 00:58:54 <pupnik> i suppose this is a .ttf
Feb 27 00:59:19 <psycho_oreos> nfi, but under X Terminal there's that down arrow followed by Font to set the fonts
Feb 27 01:00:25 <psycho_oreos> yeah they are .ttf files
Feb 27 01:01:10 <psycho_oreos> placed in: /opt/maemo/usr/share/fonts/truetype
Feb 27 01:10:56 <tga> hello
Feb 27 01:12:34 <pupnik> ty psycho_oreos
Feb 27 01:12:47 <psycho_oreos> pupnik, found what you were looking for? :)
Feb 27 01:13:04 <pupnik> yah it's strange how information gets lost in the brain
Feb 27 01:13:18 <psycho_oreos> lol
Feb 27 01:14:31 <pupnik> i LOVE "easyplayer" !
Feb 27 01:14:42 <tga> is there a way to install a full linux environment on a n800?
Feb 27 01:15:08 <tga> I don't care much about battery life so I'd like a regular system with a full cron and all that
Feb 27 01:15:29 <psycho_oreos> maybe via chroot?
Feb 27 01:16:09 <tga> psycho_oreos: ideally I'd like to fully remove maemo and install something like debian
Feb 27 01:16:27 <psycho_oreos> tga, then again the support status maybe varied
Feb 27 01:16:41 <tga> I can't find that much on this online
Feb 27 01:16:49 <tga> some people with broken android
Feb 27 01:16:56 <tga> easy debian as a maemo package
Feb 27 01:19:43 <pupnik> tga: not so many people are interested in that
Feb 27 01:20:37 <tga> pupnik: indeed, whoever was interested in nokia tables moved to a n900 by now
Feb 27 01:20:44 <tga> and even those aren't that many
Feb 27 01:20:51 <tga> tablets rather
Feb 27 01:21:09 <psycho_oreos> there was a project to get gentoo onto NIT devices, don't know if that's available for N800 nor would it allow native booting
Feb 27 01:21:12 <tga> I was hoping to be able to use this n800 as a generic computer running linux or bsd
Feb 27 01:21:32 <tga> with touchscreen+sound+wireless
Feb 27 01:21:47 <tga> it looks like I'm asking too much, might have to make do with maemo
Feb 27 01:21:47 <ShadowJK> luke-jr was working on gentoo
Feb 27 01:22:43 <tga> ShadowJK: interesting
Feb 27 01:24:37 <luke-jr> tga: we had Gentoo working, but I haven't updated in a while (my N810's battery is totally dead)
Feb 27 01:24:45 <luke-jr> and slonopotamus screwed over the overlay -.-
Feb 27 01:25:15 <luke-jr> (at the very least, he deleted the MBX driver and moved the repo to github crap)
Feb 27 01:25:30 <tga> luke-jr: do wifi and sound work?
Feb 27 01:25:43 <luke-jr> tga: IIRC there was a problem with sound on N800
Feb 27 01:25:47 <tga> (that's what I need for a smart alarm clock)
Feb 27 01:25:52 <luke-jr> N810 uses a different sound hardware, so worked
Feb 27 01:25:56 <tga> yeah, I see the android guys couldn't get that working either
Feb 27 01:26:08 <tga> maybe I'll just install cron on maemo and make do with that
Feb 27 01:26:12 <luke-jr> heh
Feb 27 01:26:16 <tga> it is almost debian after all
Feb 27 01:26:19 <pupnik> n810 speakers are godly, but they do take up space
Feb 27 01:26:40 <tga> the n800 speakers are suddenly so much better after using my htc desire for a while
Feb 27 01:26:50 * tga just found the n800 abandoned in a drawer
Feb 27 01:26:51 <pupnik> :)
Feb 27 01:27:08 <ArGGu^^> does anyone know under what license file /usr/share/sounds/Emailalert1.aac is?
Feb 27 01:27:23 <tga> ideally I'd like to rig a full screen web display on it and an alarm clock script
Feb 27 01:28:12 <tga> http://maemo.org/packages/view/cron/ <-- will this work on a n800?
Feb 27 01:29:15 <luke-jr> tga: Maemo 4 is beyond dead now
Feb 27 01:29:37 <luke-jr> tga: you might try Gentoo with Maemo4-kernel with gstreamer
Feb 27 01:30:43 <tga> well the only thing I need and don't have atm is a cron
Feb 27 01:30:44 <zanberdo> I've just installed an icon pack to my n900 but I haven't a clue how to select them for use...
Feb 27 01:30:53 <tga> I can't figure out how to launch stuff at a given time
Feb 27 01:31:10 <tga> luke-jr: any guide out there on playing with gentoo?
Feb 27 01:31:41 <luke-jr> tga: we made one, but it was on slonopotamus.org
Feb 27 01:31:44 <luke-jr> nfc if it's still around
Feb 27 01:33:06 <luke-jr> he seems to have imported it to https://github.com/slonopotamus/n8x0-overlay/wiki/main
Feb 27 01:33:40 <tga> is that reall usable?
Feb 27 01:33:43 <tga> really rather
Feb 27 01:33:51 <luke-jr> for CLI
Feb 27 01:33:56 <tga> sound?
Feb 27 01:34:46 <luke-jr> tga: no idea. I don't have N800, just N810
Feb 27 01:35:48 <tga> doesn't sound promissing
Feb 27 01:36:16 <psycho_oreos> well there's not much other choice :)
Feb 27 01:36:22 <tga> with android tablets going under $200 now, I don't see a bright future for this n800 :)
Feb 27 01:36:48 <tga> which is a shame, because the hardware is all there, a bit of software support would make it into an usable interface
Feb 27 01:37:41 <tga> how about this, any idea whether I can get a totally full screen browser on default maemo?
Feb 27 01:37:42 <psycho_oreos> on the contrary have a look at how 770 NIT owners would have fared :)
Feb 27 01:38:00 <tga> what do you mean?
Feb 27 01:38:30 <psycho_oreos> support for their devices is even more rare than that of N800 :)
Feb 27 01:39:57 <tga> right, also a shame
Feb 27 01:41:07 <psycho_oreos> unless you're a dev/hacker there isn't much one can do on a hardware that will soon face extinction with nokia. Its just how they work
Feb 27 01:41:31 <tga> too bad the hardware isn't more generic to just support a general-purpose distro
Feb 27 01:41:59 <tga> I guess my master plan is to use it as a fullscreen display for a custom web page
Feb 27 01:42:13 <tga> and see whether I can maybe also push sound to it
Feb 27 01:42:37 <psycho_oreos> well you're talking about embedded devices :) they were meant to be used for things that were to consume as little battery as possible (which hardly is the case but nevertheless that was the original case)
Feb 27 01:43:04 <psycho_oreos> s/original case/original plan/
Feb 27 01:43:06 <infobot> psycho_oreos meant: well you're talking about embedded devices :) they were meant to be used for things that were to consume as little battery as possible (which hardly is the case but nevertheless that was the original plan)
Feb 27 01:43:52 <tga> yeah, that's my problem with it wrt cron
Feb 27 01:44:01 <tga> there is no real cron because it would eat too much battery
Feb 27 01:44:55 <psycho_oreos> iinm arm devices are `tick-less' they don't have RTC to begin with
Feb 27 01:47:54 <tga> well there is a clock on it
Feb 27 01:48:14 <tga> argh, frustrating, there is no default way of making the screen never turn off
Feb 27 01:48:25 <tga> max is 5 minutes
Feb 27 01:49:15 <tga> any ideas?
Feb 27 01:50:56 <lucent> tga: what do you mean about the screen?
Feb 27 01:50:57 <tga> this n800 is fighting every attempt to make it useful
Feb 27 01:51:12 <tga> by default the screen turns off after max 5 minutes
Feb 27 01:51:15 <lucent> tga: if you get the applet that does screen brightness, it has a backlight control setting to keep it on always
Feb 27 01:51:22 <lucent> would that be useful?
Feb 27 01:51:27 <psycho_oreos> clock as in the hardware clock? hmm I thought I did see when compiling kernel for N900 there was an option with tickless
Feb 27 01:51:28 <tga> umm yes
Feb 27 01:51:41 <tga> brightness applet, I'll go check
Feb 27 01:51:44 <psycho_oreos> N900 has that
Feb 27 01:52:00 <lucent> I use that when I need to share my phone with somebody else, because other people new to using my phone get confused when the backlight turns off :)
Feb 27 01:52:18 <lucent> "What do I ... DO!!!!!?!?!"
Feb 27 01:52:19 <tga> waaait a minute, are you talking about the n900?
Feb 27 01:53:03 <lucent> tga: yes, N900 and Maemo5
Feb 27 01:53:09 <nox-> keeping it on alway would eat battery...
Feb 27 01:53:38 <lucent> nox-: alternative is other person gets mad and smashes my phone trying to make it "wake up"
Feb 27 01:53:42 <tga> I'm trying to put a N800 to use here
Feb 27 01:53:48 <lucent> ha.
Feb 27 01:54:15 <nox-> lucent, tell him to just hit a key
Feb 27 01:54:29 <lucent> question for you all today, my GSM internet connection on N900 drops sometimes, and when I go to reconnect the connection it tries a long time before failing
Feb 27 01:54:40 <lucent> I must reboot the phone before it will get a network connection again
Feb 27 01:55:03 <lucent> how do I debug this?
Feb 27 01:55:17 <Jaffa> lucent: Reflash out of the question?
Feb 27 01:56:30 <lucent> Jaffa: Reflash did not fix this issue, but if you're asking if I'm willing to reflash then answer is yes
Feb 27 01:57:10 <lucent> this is a regular issue and I'm frustrated that rebooting the phone is a common procedure when I use it
Feb 27 01:57:49 <lucent> every 2-3 days the GSM Internet connection won't connect anymore, reboot
Feb 27 01:57:52 <nox-> lucent, have you tried installing that 2g/3g switcher applet and forcing it to 2g?
Feb 27 01:58:01 <tga> hmm, what would be a good way to push sound from a web page to a n800
Feb 27 01:58:10 <tga> the browser doesn't quite do html5
Feb 27 01:58:34 <lucent> nox-: good question, I have Phone Settings set to 2G only and no-3g
Feb 27 01:58:49 <nox-> lucent, ah hm ok thats probably the same effect
Feb 27 01:59:11 <lucent> how do I know why it failed though?
Feb 27 01:59:27 * nox- has to force 2g only `sometimes' here, when 3g is down
Feb 27 01:59:30 <lucent> where is the process to type some commands and get log output that would tell us why this won't connect?
Feb 27 02:01:16 <psycho_oreos> dmesg
Feb 27 02:01:27 <psycho_oreos> its not always in there though
Feb 27 02:01:40 <nox-> i also saved this link:  http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control
Feb 27 02:01:54 <nox-> tho havent really played with this stuff yet
Feb 27 02:02:05 <lucent> psycho_oreos: good idea, nothing notable in dmesg
Feb 27 02:02:15 <lucent> I don't know what my log level is though
Feb 27 02:03:59 <psycho_oreos> lucent, yeah I guess most of the lower level stuff such as those are usually not very verbose
Feb 27 02:07:59 <lucent> who would know, or where could I go to resolve this?
Feb 27 02:08:21 <lucent> you folks are very helpful and I want you to know that I understand that much :)
Feb 27 02:09:02 <lucent> "time to reboot" is not acceptable for me on a Linux based device.
Feb 27 02:09:02 <psycho_oreos> forums sometimes would help :)
Feb 27 02:12:30 * luke-jr Gate Hacking
Feb 27 02:12:41 <lucent> gate hacking?
Feb 27 02:13:01 <luke-jr> yes
Feb 27 02:13:59 <luke-jr> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWJkriZLOnY
Feb 27 02:14:03 <lucent> not finding anything about that on Google outside of vague game references
Feb 27 02:14:47 <lucent> oh, it was a vague game reference. I understand now.
Feb 27 02:14:59 <lucent> Thank you, Google.
Feb 27 02:15:48 <psycho_oreos> maybe a custom kernel would be another option. Though you said before you've flashed the device before, was that both fiasco and emmc or just fiasco or emmc?
Feb 27 02:15:57 <luke-jr> :P
Feb 27 02:16:51 <lucent> psycho_oreos: I've left the emmc alone, I think.  Just kernel / OS reflash never touch user data
Feb 27 02:17:19 <psycho_oreos> lucent, ever installed something like autodisconnect?
Feb 27 02:17:55 <lucent> psycho_oreos: no autodisconnect here
Feb 27 02:18:00 <lucent> I am running a Titan kernel
Feb 27 02:18:45 <lucent> on a stock install though it's the same problem, after 2-3 days of use it just won't get a successful 2G GSM / EDGE connection anymore for internet ; phone calls continue to work fine
Feb 27 02:18:51 <psycho_oreos> lucent, and this issue happened just recently or has it been like that since the beginning? I'm starting to ponder whether it would be a hardware issue
Feb 27 02:19:00 <lucent> since the beginning of owning my phone
Feb 27 02:19:15 <lucent> greater than a year now
Feb 27 02:20:37 <lucent> when I travel and there is 3G available, I think 3G only mode is fine and I do not have these problems
Feb 27 02:48:51 <DocScrutinizer> lucent: reflash plain system, completely incl /home (I.E eMMC/VANILLA), DO NOT restore anything from backup, test with the plain system. If it works you're facing a nice enterprise to find out which software is causing the error, if it does *not* work you should send in device for repair immediately
Feb 27 02:49:44 <DocScrutinizer> odds are this is a hw failure
Feb 27 02:52:59 <DocScrutinizer> lucent: make sure you are using the correct image for your area, there might be differences in cmt firmware taking care about particular peculiarities of some of your GSM carriers
Feb 27 02:53:27 <lucent> DocScrutinizer: thanks
Feb 27 02:54:02 <DocScrutinizer> just in case try and check back with your carrier's hotline, they might know about issues like that
Feb 27 02:54:27 <lucent> it *is* T-Mobile
Feb 27 02:54:32 <lucent> I'm not expecting miracles there
Feb 27 02:54:44 <DocScrutinizer> US?
Feb 27 02:54:57 <lucent> yes sir
Feb 27 02:55:10 * DocScrutinizer frowns
Feb 27 02:55:21 <lucent> I'm in a ski town where several carriers compete for coverage of the resort slopes
Feb 27 02:55:34 <DocScrutinizer> might be the cause
Feb 27 02:55:34 <lucent> I work there, and commute daily between coverage zones
Feb 27 02:58:15 <DocScrutinizer> US carriers practice cheerful anarchy regarding obedience to any standards. So it's not unlikely your special air situation is causing some conflict hat N900 cmt doesn't know how to handle. This would most likely not be a explicit bug in modem, but rather some idiocy of carrier setup. Your hotline might actually know details
Feb 27 02:58:40 <lucent> oh! that's a surprise, really
Feb 27 02:59:09 <lucent> I'm thinking in terms of what line of code must I forcibly rearrange to make this work
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Feb 27 02:59:57 2011