**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Mar 13 02:59:57 2011 Mar 13 03:13:32 *sob* Mar 13 03:13:59 DocScrutinizer, it was fun, I saved 95% of them :D Mar 13 03:14:18 http://liqbase.net/20110312_025.jpg Mar 13 03:14:27 I bet it was. Amiga1000 was the best IT time of my life Mar 13 03:15:55 wait, is taht an original Amiga monitor? :-O Mar 13 03:16:24 1081? Mar 13 03:16:28 I believe so DocScrutinizer Mar 13 03:16:41 or is my memory fooling me Mar 13 03:17:10 #Playable #ZXSpectrum #Amiga #C64 #BBCMICRO #Archimedes and many more at #Manchester #MOSI Family Telecomms weekend! #Lemmings #awesome http://twitter.com/lcuk/status/46647684207087616 Mar 13 03:17:19 hold on, I can get a better shot I think Mar 13 03:17:44 http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=847 Mar 13 03:21:47 http://liqbase.net/20110312_014.jpg Mar 13 03:21:52 I "tuned" that one with a 6V~ transformer and a 10R 2W potentiometer, plus a relay, to preheat the CRT and get instant on when pushing the powerbutton Mar 13 03:23:03 as it took so incredibly long to heat up without that Mar 13 03:23:19 i had an analog tv for the longest time through a demodulator thingie Mar 13 03:23:49 when I saw that today, I peeked round the back to see if the hunk of sheer odd design was in place Mar 13 03:23:49 hehe, I used the 1081 for TV with the tuner of a VCR Mar 13 03:24:46 was quite convenient to switch between SCART and CVBS Mar 13 03:25:01 could someone lend a hand troubleshooting this n810 video hardware Mar 13 03:25:12 maybe Mar 13 03:25:27 i am fairly certain if i totally depower the device, then boot it will work again Mar 13 03:25:30 no idea what'S N8100 video hw though Mar 13 03:25:35 but i'd like to establish why this keeps happening Mar 13 03:25:50 Guest40473, I used to use my n810 camera routinely Mar 13 03:26:00 dmesg does not have much valuable output, and i dont see any kernel processes using much cpu on top Mar 13 03:26:03 it is the screen Mar 13 03:26:06 only on very very rare occasions would it do strange stuff Mar 13 03:26:19 i was playing vgba, when the screen suddenly began to fade to white Mar 13 03:26:19 explain your problem then Mar 13 03:26:24 with vertical colored lines Mar 13 03:26:43 if i tap, the backlight comes on Mar 13 03:26:53 ouch, FPC Mar 13 03:27:02 or B2B-connector loose Mar 13 03:27:07 showing white, mostly with a thin black/teal/yellow line, about every 1/2 cm Mar 13 03:27:17 i can still ssh into the machine, though Mar 13 03:27:23 the system is still running Mar 13 03:28:21 yeah, /query PaulFerster, he had exactly same issue with one N810 some time ago. I can't remember if we managed to fix it, and what's been the exact cause Mar 13 03:28:37 PaulFertser even Mar 13 03:29:50 does it change on open/close slider? Mar 13 03:29:56 DocScrutinizer "we sell original part, picture is from back of speaker"] Mar 13 03:30:02 "do not worry" Mar 13 03:30:09 aha!!! Mar 13 03:30:12 well, popping slider turns the backlight on Mar 13 03:30:14 LOL Mar 13 03:30:17 other then that, no change Mar 13 03:30:19 lie Mar 13 03:30:41 if i press the lock slider Mar 13 03:30:45 not everyone is smart i guess Mar 13 03:30:49 i can still see the lines Mar 13 03:31:01 even though the screen should be black/off Mar 13 03:31:18 last time this happened, issuing init 6 did not fix the problem Mar 13 03:31:27 i had to totally depower the device, then boot Mar 13 03:31:31 i feel like Mar 13 03:31:33 Guest40473: My guess is it's the flat plastic cable that connects screen to main body Mar 13 03:31:43 the video driver bugs out and places the video hardware Mar 13 03:31:47 in an unrecoverable state Mar 13 03:31:51 yeah? Mar 13 03:36:05 if the box is back up (maybe tomorrow) you can check people.openmoko.org/joerg/N810-disassembly/ - you'll find that cable and the board-to-board connector at the end that also might get loose. Though often the cable itself or the B2B-con soldering breaks Mar 13 03:36:27 ran an init 6, Mar 13 03:36:42 looking at boot messages to see if the driver complains about the problem Mar 13 03:37:28 during the soft power off the white screen/vertical lines faded so now it's just blank black Mar 13 03:39:04 is there anything else to look for diagnostic msg other then dmesg? Mar 13 03:40:01 I'd not know of anything that could diagnose the hw problem of the cable Mar 13 03:40:34 i can confirm if the problem is cable-related in a minute Mar 13 03:40:36 but Mar 13 03:40:49 this problem is sporadic, Mar 13 03:41:44 query paul, join ##mhd Mar 13 03:41:53 to oing him Mar 13 03:41:54 so if i could find some symptom Mar 13 03:41:56 ping* Mar 13 03:46:54 guys sorry bout my ignorance, but what is emmc ? is it the internal n900 memory ? or the external microsd card ? Mar 13 03:47:34 there is a 32gb SD card wired into the N900 as you know Mar 13 03:47:39 that's the eMMC (embedded MMC) Mar 13 03:48:07 ah ok I thought E was for external Mar 13 03:48:17 do you know something about nitdroid ? Mar 13 03:48:26 i'd rather call it internal storage than memory although it's certainly flash memory but not operaitonal memory Mar 13 03:48:37 nothing more than you do Mar 13 03:48:47 ok :p Mar 13 03:48:48 yes chx - handheld mfgrs are terrible about that Mar 13 03:48:55 memory/storage Mar 13 03:49:18 do someone know a bit about nitdroid ? gingerbread etc... ? I want to give it a try ... Mar 13 03:49:20 yeah carrying around any device with 32gb of *memory* would blow my socks Mar 13 03:49:32 kpoman: http://nitdroid.com/index.php?title=N900 Mar 13 03:49:46 yep I saw that page Mar 13 03:50:38 my webservers have 32gb in them and even in a server that's a bit untypical Mar 13 03:50:53 cant even imagine how would you squeeze 32gb dram in a phone. but i'd buy one :D Mar 13 03:51:06 Why would one want to use android on the n900? Mar 13 03:51:06 how about a foss OSM earth app - 3d world view Mar 13 03:51:37 woldrich: well. how about Angry Birds? Mar 13 03:51:38 * chx runs Mar 13 03:51:49 chx, what? Mar 13 03:51:55 angry birds was designed on maemo Mar 13 03:52:00 i was joking Mar 13 03:52:15 wow didnt know that Mar 13 03:52:17 I didnt get the reference :( Mar 13 03:52:25 i presumed it's an iPhone / Android app Mar 13 03:52:36 everyone does Mar 13 03:52:40 can someone run lsmod on n810 Mar 13 03:52:45 what is display driver name? Mar 13 03:53:09 i am too old fashioned gamer to even understand the lure of angry birds Mar 13 03:53:11 Hey, we can run pretty much every single linux application, can android do that? Mar 13 03:53:23 woldrich: android does not have an X server Mar 13 03:53:32 oh, games. Yes, I am old as well. I know Pacman. Mar 13 03:54:02 guest40473, What do they use, something homebrew? Mar 13 03:54:03 i hope to god that the new HP phones wont be locked down too hrad Mar 13 03:54:09 a.b. is a study in simplicity and genius Mar 13 03:54:15 is it possible to insert android on n810 Mar 13 03:54:47 i think android runs fb simply Mar 13 03:54:49 woldrich: afaik they just run something homebrew to composite their custom widgets/wm controls into their fb Mar 13 03:55:03 I am seriously considering to buy a second N)00 Mar 13 03:55:31 woldrich: basically, short story: to my knowledge xterm doesnt run out of the box on android... because there is no xserv Mar 13 03:56:14 I have some more exciting links to share with you; what about this: http://www.archmobile.org/trac/wiki/WikiStart (yes, works on n900) Mar 13 03:56:17 guest40473, I see. Mar 13 03:56:57 my biggest problem with the n900 is bulk Mar 13 03:57:09 i bought a belt case and it digs into my side so that's not a good solution Mar 13 03:57:19 how do you guys carry the thing? Mar 13 03:57:26 pocket Mar 13 03:57:35 i have an e51 and that's pocketable Mar 13 03:57:43 this is too thick and heavy to be pocketable Mar 13 03:58:03 and i am afraid i'll scratch the screen too Mar 13 03:58:03 No, your pockets are too small :) Mar 13 03:58:06 man. how can i test this display.. x is running.. i can connect to a x11vnc instance Mar 13 03:58:22 I'd never dare to carry N900 in pocket. belt pouch Mar 13 03:58:52 woldrich: my normal clothing maybe but my travel clothing has several pockets big enough for a nook :) but that's insanity. Mar 13 03:58:59 dont see anything problematic in dmesg, i dont see a driver in lsmod... but could be one of these.. Mar 13 03:59:11 DocScrutinizer: and ... how do you wear it on your belt? i cant sit with it on my belt. Mar 13 03:59:22 http://share.ovi.com/album/joerg900.pouch Mar 13 04:00:07 if you think N900 is quite bulky, wait till you add otterman's case to it :p Mar 13 04:00:14 DocScrutinizer: do you remove it when you sit down? Mar 13 04:00:25 nope Mar 13 04:00:35 I havent been here in a while. What's the current situation after Nokias retarded idea of using Microsoft Windows instead? I guess this n900 was the last usable product from them... :/ Mar 13 04:01:59 i got http://www.pdair.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=10100000_1900000_11000787&products_id=24072 this Mar 13 04:02:19 there's rumours of N950 coming out Mar 13 04:02:43 you mean the head nokia guy saying that? Mar 13 04:03:06 no I think it was Nokia's CTO Mar 13 04:03:06 psycho_oreos: woldrich asked about *usable* products Mar 13 04:03:11 tha'ts a bit more than a rumour but he said that there might be and who knows when and whether it'll have a keyboard :( Mar 13 04:03:39 DocScrutinizer, he didn't say now however :) Mar 13 04:03:59 that's not the point Mar 13 04:04:40 or at least from a pessimistic point of view, yes there's nothing apart from N900 being the last of the usable product for *now* Mar 13 04:05:47 so back to pouches :) Mar 13 04:05:48 chx, or will it even be running meego, what sort of internal hardware would it have, etc Mar 13 04:05:51 and maybe they decide to produce and sell a N995-classic some day. That might pic up where N950 dropped the ball Mar 13 04:05:51 who else has ideas about carrying. Mar 13 04:06:29 shoulder holster ;-P Mar 13 04:06:48 with a lanyard and hang it around your neck ;) Mar 13 04:07:10 isnt it a bit heavy for a lanyard? Mar 13 04:07:24 hrm, shoulder holster, i am in Canada not in Texas. Mar 13 04:08:02 nope I've wore it around the neck before. That's with a really old nokia lanyard I found off me brother's very old phone he used to have Mar 13 04:08:18 http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/urban-tool-hipholster-p23135.htm hrm :) Mar 13 04:08:46 i have the bottom part of a lanyard on my n900, helps to grab and pull it out of pocket with Mar 13 04:08:51 psycho_oreos: unless an update has been published, last i heard the meego people did say: "yes, we will still be shipping 1 meego device" Mar 13 04:11:01 woldrich psycho_oreos: http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-meego-not-dead-still-shipping-this-year/ Mar 13 04:11:33 lol I wore it a few times before but it was a little annoying with N900 swinging around my shirt when I was walking. I looked more like one of those `gangsta'. I wore it more or less until I one day I put it in my pocket and when crossing an engine stand the lanyard caught itself on an engine part before ripping apart Mar 13 04:12:47 Guest40473, there's more than one meego device out there, and yes Nokia's CEO did utter about bringing out one meego device by the end of this year. Apart from that both Intel and Fujitsu have either brought out or am planning to bring out a meego powered device Mar 13 04:13:34 What are the primary steps you guys took to secure your n900s? Mar 13 04:14:01 * chx shoots anyone who even looks at his phone. Mar 13 04:14:08 lol Mar 13 04:14:14 lock code on mine Mar 13 04:14:26 I haven't used that, since I don't let it out of my hands anyway Mar 13 04:14:29 now how did we get to meego now? I thought it was still about *usable* devices Mar 13 04:14:31 always in pocket Mar 13 04:14:43 and it doesn't seem the lock code would help if it is stolen Mar 13 04:14:44 DocScrutinizer: -_- Mar 13 04:14:45 anyway Mar 13 04:15:15 no it wouldn't help but it would make it hard for thieves to make it useful for resale Mar 13 04:15:28 internetishard: mostly for keeping quasi-savy friends/coworkers Mar 13 04:15:42 from doing jackass-like things with your contacts list/saved passwords Mar 13 04:15:44 you can just reset it? Mar 13 04:16:16 the lock code isn't easily resettable, sure with handy computer skills you'll need to write to /dev/mtd and hoping it won't brick the device Mar 13 04:16:19 I care more about all the info I store on the device than the device itself (both would be disasterous, but making money to buy it again wouldn't be as bad as stolen personal info, etc) Mar 13 04:16:39 oh, okay, I thought the lock code was easier Mar 13 04:16:42 to reset, that is Mar 13 04:16:58 n810 lock code can be read from /dev/mtd1 Mar 13 04:17:03 with a bit of grepping Mar 13 04:17:26 yeah Mar 13 04:17:37 why need to write, when you can just read.. then unlock? ;p Mar 13 04:17:46 'one meego device' could be a zero-investment netbook bought from intel Mar 13 04:17:47 N900 isn't exactly a popular device to be stolen and be reused. Mar 13 04:18:13 lock code with timeout would prove quite challenging to the thief Mar 13 04:18:39 explain that to the crackhead who brandishes a knife demanding your phone so he can pawn it for today's shot Mar 13 04:18:49 so what's the problem with carrying the n900 again? Mar 13 04:18:59 i.e. every 30 minutes the device asks for lock code, you can't simply hook the device up to computer, and set it to PC Suite mode to ssh in and read the code let alone getting into xterm and doing the same thing Mar 13 04:19:00 i carry n810 every day, sure it is thinner Mar 13 04:19:03 but also much larger Mar 13 04:19:07 and much heavier Mar 13 04:19:11 chx: that person should be shot Mar 13 04:19:22 * DocScrutinizer is all for a proper xdm Mar 13 04:19:28 pupnik: and yet Mar 13 04:19:37 fsck lock-code nonsense Mar 13 04:20:12 I thought iphone crap was all the rage, N900 isn't that popular, sure the thief might earn some quid for it but not as much as when he steals iphone Mar 13 04:20:21 i just use the supplied sleeve/protector while i carry it Mar 13 04:20:26 and still I'm wondering which closed source blob in init is querying the lock code Mar 13 04:20:38 so what do we think http://www.eholster.com/gadget-shoulder-holster.html would be helpful? Mar 13 04:20:42 to provide minimal puncture-resistance for screen, and to keep pocket lint out of it Mar 13 04:21:09 psycho_oreos: yeah but the thief can barely see straight muhc less actually recognize an iPhone Mar 13 04:21:28 chx: if you want to be shot in a tube station Mar 13 04:21:38 Guest40473: lulz what? Mar 13 04:21:55 I have otterman's case for that, I have accidentally dropped the phone a few times and it hasn't bear any physical damages to the device itself Mar 13 04:22:36 electricians have been shot down there for less Mar 13 04:22:43 chx, I don't think the thief would be dumb enough to not see the difference between an iphone and N900 Mar 13 04:22:45 puffy coats, et al Mar 13 04:23:06 especially N900 with otterman's case makes it look very different to iphone Mar 13 04:23:42 * DocScrutinizer wonders what fsckdup part of this globe Guest40473 lives in Mar 13 04:24:09 sounds London to me Mar 13 04:24:31 yeah Mar 13 04:24:36 does the lock code prevent someone from hooking it up to the computer with usb and download the data off of it? Mar 13 04:24:45 if not, then I don't really care about it Mar 13 04:24:57 though more like USA for the "shoot first, ask later" paradigm Mar 13 04:25:00 it does if its also set to have timeout Mar 13 04:25:21 cant you just hook usb & boot in flasher mode? Mar 13 04:25:28 err its called autolock Mar 13 04:25:32 dump whole device to a file, with free flasher tool Mar 13 04:25:38 bam. Mar 13 04:26:04 flasher mode afaik only allows sending firmwares across to the device rather than dumping any devices Mar 13 04:26:17 iirc free flasher tool lets you take full backups Mar 13 04:26:21 because people are lazy Mar 13 04:26:31 not that I know of Mar 13 04:26:51 which flasher tool are you talking about? Mar 13 04:27:00 actually it'd be nice if it did Mar 13 04:27:07 indeed Mar 13 04:28:03 but flasher is just a "frontend" to NOLO basically, and NOLO doesn't support readout of anything else than maybe CAL/mtd1 Mar 13 04:28:40 * psycho_oreos goes to find that tmo page on resetting lock codes Mar 13 04:28:44 http://nopcode.org/0xFFFF/?p=docu&q=dumping Mar 13 04:29:00 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37808 Mar 13 04:29:03 0xFFFF is the community flasher Mar 13 04:29:14 psycho_oreos: meh, I can write down the one cmdline off top of my head, but it's worthless Mar 13 04:31:42 DocScrutinizer, meaning that the lock code can still be dumped regardless? Mar 13 04:32:02 Should I get the N900 for 256EUR unused? Mar 13 04:32:03 regradless of what? Mar 13 04:32:17 that seems extremely expensive Mar 13 04:32:24 .. Mar 13 04:32:36 Seriously? Mar 13 04:32:39 I hate this country Mar 13 04:32:49 50% more a week ago Mar 13 04:33:31 Guest40473: well, I don't completely get it what they are doing, but actually you could load your own "NOLO" via OMAP's ROM bootloader coldflash scheme, and that one for sure *could* read out arbitrary storage Mar 13 04:33:42 regardless of using flasher mode or not? Mar 13 04:34:07 psycho_oreos: sorry, you lost me Mar 13 04:34:09 Guest40473, interesting Mar 13 04:34:57 DocScrutinizer, you were saying that you can write down the one cmdline off the top of your head.. can you elaborate on that? you mean you can actually retrieve the lock code by other means Mar 13 04:35:24 actually I'm completely lost with the last ~8 posts Mar 13 04:35:33 what's expensive? Mar 13 04:35:51 lolcat: nm, that price is not so unreasonable, particularly for unused + in a smaller market. Mar 13 04:36:17 Guest40473: I could bargain it down, but if the price is less than 2000 I only have 2 years warranty Mar 13 04:36:17 grep -A 13 lock_code /dev/mtd1|tail -1 Mar 13 04:36:19 only about 350 usd Mar 13 04:36:51 less than 256eur Mar 13 04:38:00 Guest40473: And I figure 5 years of warranty is awesomer than 2 Mar 13 04:38:08 even if it costs me a few dollars extra Mar 13 04:40:13 alright. im out of ideas Mar 13 04:40:21 dmesg, lsmod, Mar 13 04:40:27 soft reboot. Mar 13 04:40:40 actually the N900 is unbrickable, which means it's also not protectable by lock codes, at least against reflashing but actually it seems also against readout of data. You of course can use cryptfs et al Mar 13 04:41:52 that's where we're back to my request for proper xdm Mar 13 04:46:55 what is this flasher thing that lets you take full backups? Mar 13 04:48:10 I'm not aware of it letting you make backups Mar 13 04:48:37 lol I didn't get to see the lock_code in plaintext, it was saying binary file /dev/mtd1 matches. Checking it via strings and the lock_code is encrypted Mar 13 04:49:36 someone just said that above Mar 13 04:51:10 i believe 0xFFFF should be able to write a full backup of internal flash out with "-e" Mar 13 04:51:19 psycho_oreos: yes, as is clearly explained in that tmo thread Mar 13 04:51:54 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=524522#post524522 Mar 13 04:53:31 DocScrutinizer, `root:Binary file /dev/mtd1 matches:' :) Mar 13 04:53:35 nice, slightly more protected then maemo 4 Mar 13 04:53:56 psycho_oreos: ... Mar 13 04:54:32 psycho_oreos: sorry, I have difficulties to follow your thoughts and posts Mar 13 04:54:37 but no apart from that I can see a few encrypted lock_code by sifting through via strings Mar 13 04:55:03 psycho_oreos: in maemo 4, the lock code was on disk in plain text Mar 13 04:55:09 DocScrutinizer, the output of that little command was the result, grep doesn't actually dump the encrypted file it just does comparison Mar 13 04:55:16 it seems like in maemo 5 the n900 has it written down as a DES digest Mar 13 04:55:24 but an attacker can take that string Mar 13 04:55:26 Guest40473, and can be cracked in 1 second Mar 13 04:55:39 and brute force it, extremely quickly Mar 13 04:55:42 yeah Mar 13 04:55:43 psycho_oreos: sorry, I have difficulties to follow your thoughts and posts Mar 13 04:56:13 DocScrutinizer, echo root:$(grep -A 13 lock_code /dev/mtd1|tail -1): = root:Binary file /dev/mtd1 matches: Mar 13 04:56:37 hmm, you must use busybox grep Mar 13 04:57:43 indeed as I just realised, using gnu grep is different Mar 13 05:00:27 NB root:12345: is still plain text and not encrypted, and means the device has factory default set and never changed yet Mar 13 05:10:22 http://www.gizmowatch.com/entry/us-army-tests-wristwatch-with-flexible-oled-display-to-show-maps-and-stream-videos/ 4.3" NIT on your forearm Mar 13 05:13:13 you meant IT Mar 13 05:14:04 right Mar 13 05:16:02 http://www.dinodirect.com/2GB-1-5-OLED-MP4-Watch-Player-668.html if this only had bluetooth it would make a nice client for n900 Mar 13 05:32:19 Hi! Does anyone how to replace lxp's kernel (wl1251) with titan's? Mar 13 05:34:50 I'll settle for any watch with bluetooth that can do more then display the caller id Mar 13 05:40:28 whoa, it exists! Mar 13 06:11:53 http://www.getinpulse.com/ cool, "Get real-time notifications right on your wrist" Mar 13 06:11:56 "inPulse is the perfect hacker accessory - a fully programmable wireless smartwatch." Mar 13 06:12:59 isnt it a bit large? Mar 13 06:15:15 if it works... Mar 13 06:18:47 Hm, I'd be more interested in how indestructible it is: Unless its like my $20 Armitron and can literally be used as a hammer without damage, it's too fragile for me. Mar 13 06:19:19 hehehehehe Mar 13 06:20:56 (I've had this one for like 4+ years, and wear it almost 24/7. The case plastic's edges have been rounded down, the screen's plastic cover's scratched to ****, and it still works right.) Mar 13 06:22:06 I need to reinstall titan's kernel, but after installing lxp's bleeding edge wl1215 kernel, I can no longer install it. Mar 13 06:22:13 Oh I can relate... I had a 10+ year old timex Mar 13 06:22:26 which configurtion file(s) controlas System -> Setting -> Personalization ? Mar 13 06:37:24 is there a kindle app for maemo Mar 13 06:44:32 iluminator101: Probably not. But there is skindle and FBReader. Mar 13 06:44:42 Free your data, then use it on just about anything. Mar 13 06:55:31 Many foods are naturally radioactive, and bananas are particularly so, due to the radioactive potassium-40 they contain. The banana equivalent dose is the radiation exposure received by eating a single banana. By comparing the exposure from these events to a banana equivalent dose, a more intuitive assessment of the actual risk can sometimes be obtained. Mar 13 06:56:45 Bananas are radioactive enough to regularly cause false alarms on radiation sensors used to detect possible illegal smuggling of nuclear material at US ports. Mar 13 06:57:31 * RST38h goes to the kitchen, to dispose of the radioactive materials Mar 13 06:58:01 Does anyone actually eat a banana every single day? Mar 13 06:58:20 Probably - many people take 'em to work for lunch Mar 13 06:58:37 I would get sick to death of them. Mar 13 06:58:57 And not from the radiation! Mar 13 06:59:20 Same here, but tastes differ Mar 13 07:03:12 hi guys Mar 13 07:04:44 ...bananas cause radiation exposure even when not ingested; for instance, standing next to a crate of bananas causes a measurable dose. Mar 13 07:06:11 morning Mar 13 07:06:18 moorning Mar 13 07:06:20 RST38h, seriously? Never knew that Mar 13 07:06:55 Mohammad: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_equivalent_dose (also see "brazilian nuts" there) Mar 13 07:07:05 radiation from bananas is not noted to have any significant impact on human being thus if such were the case it would have been already documented and should not be eaten in excessive amounts Mar 13 07:07:32 if it does not affect you, you have just not eaten enough bananas! =) Mar 13 07:07:45 explains why it blows up well in Worms Mar 13 07:07:53 gotta love that game Mar 13 07:08:05 they have thermonuclear bananas there! Mar 13 07:09:00 lool Mar 13 07:09:00 morning MohammadAG Mar 13 07:09:22 contrary to that, if standing next to bananas would have measurable dose of radiation, I'm sure the cultivars would have been complaining of excessive radiation dosage Mar 13 07:09:58 they are kept in the dark by evil international corporations! =) Mar 13 07:10:03 morning Venemo Mar 13 07:10:56 psycho_oreos: measurable does not necessary mean that it has an health impact Mar 13 07:11:46 psycho_oreos: there are places around the world where the background radiation is far stronger than on such a plantation plus the bananas. Mar 13 07:14:20 also depending on where the active potassium comes from that accumulates in bananas it might be that they reduce the background component of the soil by well accumulating it themselves Mar 13 07:17:54 Hey! How can I include caldav/webdav calendars into my calendar on the n900 ? Mar 13 07:18:35 dm8tbr, you're missing my point, I was noting the fact that just because bananas are radioactive, it doesn't mean anything Mar 13 07:19:28 psycho_oreos: then we have the same point. Mar 13 07:19:35 * dm8tbr continues to caffeinate Mar 13 07:19:49 indeed :) Mar 13 07:20:38 psycho_oreos<== obviously a wikipedian Mar 13 07:21:09 RST38h: not really there are also documentational video series about this Mar 13 07:21:31 about him not being a wikipedian? Mar 13 07:21:55 they are mostly conducted by uni profs and things and it truely is radioactive but they are only by a tiny tiny amount Mar 13 07:21:58 RST38h: yes Mar 13 07:23:32 everyone who ate even a single banana during 1800-1899 is dead now though Mar 13 07:23:48 this stuff is deadly! Mar 13 07:23:57 :P Mar 13 07:47:24 psycho_oreos<== obviously a wikipedian <-- [citation needed] Mar 13 07:48:38 hehe Mar 13 07:50:42 lol Mar 13 07:56:53 Aaaaaa: http://www.mobile-review.com/lj/3842.jpg Mar 13 07:56:56 hmm, setting a higher value for HILDON_STACKING_LAYER causes my dialog to show over the stock call dialog Mar 13 07:57:13 RST38h: wow Mar 13 07:57:14 Well, predictable, isn'tit? Mar 13 07:57:18 I feel stupid for looking for a way to kill the dialog instead of raising the number to 9 Mar 13 07:57:32 RST38h: what was that in aid of, the windows stuff? Mar 13 07:58:11 doc: a German carnival Mar 13 07:58:30 RST38h: yep, but is it due to the layoffs a while back or more recent than that? Mar 13 07:59:14 doc: article accompanying the photos is dated 3/3/11, so make your own conclusions Mar 13 07:59:39 could be a file photo Mar 13 08:01:31 RST38h: LOOOOL Mar 13 08:02:33 Here is the whole article: http://bigpicture.ru/?p=127478 (more lulz there, the text is in Russian, sorry) Mar 13 08:04:28 lolwtf @ 4 Mar 13 08:13:04 does the n900 support daylight stupidity time automatically? Mar 13 08:13:45 it does, in the same way as every unix system does Mar 13 08:13:46 afaik yes Mar 13 08:14:13 (that is, time is stored in UTC time, and only its interpretation is defined to cover time zones and DST) Mar 13 08:14:44 ok, thanks Mar 13 08:19:13 Hi all Mar 13 08:20:21 I have a small problem with the backup: now when I backup it always backup the same applications that the same backup I made 1 week ago. It doesn't see the new applications or the one I already removed. Any idea? Mar 13 08:27:15 hmm... my N900 keeps hanging recently Mar 13 08:27:24 Badly. Calls don't seem to wake it Mar 13 08:27:35 The power button doesn't work Mar 13 08:27:58 I have to take out the battery and returrn it. Happened twice lately. Mar 13 08:33:02 Venemo: hey Mar 13 08:33:20 Venemo: Mar 13 08:33:25 i almost did it Mar 13 08:33:29 ~ping Mar 13 08:33:30 ~pong Mar 13 08:34:23 e-yes: they didn't like joke about flash =P Mar 13 08:36:36 hmm how is it possible that when i do run make from /src dir it works fine, but while i run dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b -uc it fails =) Mar 13 08:39:57 damn webchat, proxy and timeouts Mar 13 08:46:31 hey ZogG_laptop_, congrats Mar 13 08:46:46 Venemo: but not the whole thing Mar 13 08:47:07 i only succeeded to make dirty code for callbacks Mar 13 08:47:45 but now i'm stuck with classes and using mainwindow class function from functions without class Mar 13 08:51:00 you shouldn't be using functions without classes Mar 13 08:51:07 that's not C++ Mar 13 08:52:55 right cause i use C Mar 13 08:52:58 MohammadAG: Mar 13 08:53:26 and there is some problem to make some C function class functions of Qt Mar 13 08:53:27 C with Qt is a bad mix Mar 13 08:53:36 u are bad =P Mar 13 08:53:47 consider a wrapper instead of mixing C and C++ Mar 13 08:53:48 i'll make console program at the end =) Mar 13 08:56:55 there will be 3 of me here Mar 13 08:57:25 anyway MohammadAG the c++ api has boost Mar 13 08:58:17 if anyone feels like testing/improving http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/slide2answer_0.1_armel.deb Mar 13 08:58:40 i dunno even how to include it as it's not pk-config Mar 13 09:01:05 MohammadAG, it work out of box? Mar 13 09:02:00 ZogG_N900, hmm? Mar 13 09:03:19 works terrible Mar 13 09:06:23 thanks Mar 13 09:09:03 srsly Mar 13 09:09:11 took half min to appear Mar 13 09:09:32 as i slided second time slide left slided =) Mar 13 09:09:46 and i had 2 numbers instead one Mar 13 09:09:51 MohammadAG: lol that was really bad... :-) Mar 13 09:11:01 ZogG_N900, I said testing/improving Mar 13 09:11:05 it does take 15 sec to appear... and it donsn't want to go landscape :-! Mar 13 09:11:18 AsiQue, that depends on your stock dialog Mar 13 09:11:40 slowless = Qt sadly Mar 13 09:11:42 where's the source? Mar 13 09:12:03 a Gtk rewrite would be awesome Mar 13 09:12:04 http://gitorious.org/slide2answer/slide2answer/ Mar 13 09:12:20 will look into that... Mar 13 09:13:35 i dont think it's good to put apps on top of closed Mar 13 09:14:05 go beg Nokia for sources, I'm not doing it :p Mar 13 09:16:04 or if you're a gtk dev, use DocScrutinizer's suggestion Mar 13 09:16:16 LD_PRELOAD a modified lib Mar 13 09:26:29 Revisiting the topic, it is ok to use functions without classes in C++ Mar 13 09:27:07 Nothing prevents it, and it makes sense in many case (i.e. the function operates on the global state, not associated with any objects). Mar 13 09:28:08 The rule of thumb is: if a bunch of your function takes the same first argument, and this argument is a struct, then you probably want to make it a class Mar 13 09:30:43 RST38h, it's ok, but it makes looking at code painful Mar 13 09:30:52 * MohammadAG wonders what a slider's called in QML Mar 13 09:39:32 heh, it doesn't have a slider Mar 13 09:39:39 but making one looks easy Mar 13 09:39:43 this is kinda fun Mar 13 09:41:15 MohammadAG: hows the mediaplayer cloe? Mar 13 09:41:18 clone* Mar 13 09:42:01 needs some tweaks for a music-only release Mar 13 09:42:13 nice! Mar 13 09:42:37 you can try a binary Mar 13 09:42:53 i would Mar 13 09:44:00 http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/mediaplayer Mar 13 09:44:07 I update it every once in a while ^ Mar 13 09:45:00 thanks Mar 13 09:45:57 the biggest thing that needs fixing is that it iterates over all songs and adds them to a playlist, that makes the UI "hang" Mar 13 09:46:13 I just need to move that into a separate thread Mar 13 09:46:16 ouch Mar 13 09:46:28 but if you're using the same playlist from the stock player, it works well Mar 13 09:46:33 (I use it daily) Mar 13 09:48:51 I just renamed the old bin and started using this one Mar 13 09:48:56 does it do streaming yet? Mar 13 09:49:03 ( i mostly use it for streaming radio while working) Mar 13 09:49:14 if not, i can just use mplayer Mar 13 09:49:19 o_O Mar 13 09:49:29 you don't need to rename the old one, in fact, I suggest you don't Mar 13 09:49:35 i figured that out just now Mar 13 09:49:55 it can do streaming, but the window isn't connected to handle pause/stop next/prev Mar 13 09:50:05 ah Mar 13 09:57:39 well MohammadAG, that mediaplayer of yours its quite the piece of work Mar 13 09:57:43 good job, damn Mar 13 10:01:20 thanks :D Mar 13 10:10:03 damn, double click just make whois =9 Mar 13 10:22:05 Venemo: than i would need help to make it work in Qt or make separete lib/file with all functions that make all the job and connect it to my program Mar 13 10:56:58 ZogG_laptop_: I can help with that Mar 13 10:57:14 ZogG_laptop_: can't you use the pattern that I created in the version I sent you? Mar 13 11:00:54 umm Mar 13 11:01:08 why does Qt Creator lack a deploy to device feature for QML... Mar 13 11:09:55 mohammadag: more fun this way :) Mar 13 11:12:49 timeless_w7ip, heh Mar 13 11:13:21 I hate the new Qt SDK Mar 13 11:15:02 MohammadAG: does it still support n900 as a target? Mar 13 11:15:18 yes, it does, but it sucks Mar 13 11:15:33 it fails to deploy unless I remove the old build myself Mar 13 11:15:57 ah that's the problem Mar 13 11:16:01 someone was asking about it Mar 13 11:16:54 quite a helpful error ":-1: error: Packaging failed." Mar 13 11:17:01 :D Mar 13 11:18:23 heh Mar 13 12:04:22 Venemo: i still didn't see your version Mar 13 12:04:38 Venemo: do you still have my repo? Mar 13 12:15:27 ZogG_laptop_: I gave it to you a few days ago Mar 13 12:15:46 i know Mar 13 12:15:54 so why didn't you see it? Mar 13 12:15:54 i just wanted u to look what i did Mar 13 12:16:23 okay, send it to me then :) Mar 13 12:16:33 i used static int i and i++; and printed it everytime in callback - it worked Mar 13 12:16:53 Venemo: i didn't see it as it didn't work right as u told Mar 13 12:18:24 hola all Mar 13 12:18:28 https://github.com/funkycode/fresh Mar 13 12:18:33 wazd: Mar 13 12:42:26 ZogG_laptop_: your project? :) Mar 13 12:43:37 wazd: what about it? Mar 13 12:44:04 wazd: look at qmlreddit and if you have time look at bouncebounce game =) Mar 13 12:54:56 ZogG_laptop_: https://github.com/funkycode/fresh <- I thought that was for me :) Mar 13 13:05:10 hi all, I need some help. how to get permission to create database automatically on maemo with qt ? Mar 13 13:22:33 hmm :) Mar 13 13:22:33 Nokia-N810-43-7:~# uptime 15:23:48 up 287 days, 13:39, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 Mar 13 13:23:04 nice Mar 13 13:23:11 do you use it daily? Mar 13 13:23:25 yeah Mar 13 13:23:32 hi i would like to resize home and mydocs ; but i do not understand one thing in the tuto ; do i have to reflash the firmware ? Mar 13 13:23:39 mostly fbreader Mar 13 13:23:50 troulouliou, nope Mar 13 13:24:00 jaska, ahh I have an eink reader for that ;) Mar 13 13:24:01 I'd definitely have a backup of everything Mar 13 13:24:20 ruskie: it is just that home and mydocs wil be deleted Mar 13 13:24:28 i can copy back after ? Mar 13 13:24:37 if you make a backup first yes Mar 13 13:24:51 ok cause in the tuto it says : Backup all settings (to your computer or SD), reflash, restore the settings and install rootsh (no other applications!). Mar 13 13:24:51 ruskie: with text set to white on black i can read without extra light at night too, which is a plus over e-ink type, and i didnt want to buy another device just for it when i already had one :) Mar 13 13:25:18 jaska, haha that setup messed up my eyes badly Mar 13 13:25:21 also backlit is annoying Mar 13 13:26:26 well, i have to read with my worse eye closed anyway, not wearing glasses at that point Mar 13 13:26:33 another question; i have a problem with samba-common ; at each time i instll a packet with apt-get i get error dpkg configuring samba-common Mar 13 13:27:31 jaska, ahh... well dark setups and a shitty monitor basicalyl ruined my eyes in half a year... Mar 13 13:29:22 * jaska remembers the days of 1600x1200 87Hz interlaced on 17" Mar 13 13:29:39 actually no, that was 59Hz Mar 13 13:29:50 the 87iHz was 1152x864 on 14" Mar 13 13:39:39 hi, i have a problem with my scratchbox. it keeps saying "ERROR: Cannot determine user. $USER is null. Please check your environment. Mar 13 13:39:46 when i try so /scratchbox/login Mar 13 13:39:55 s/so/to/ Mar 13 13:39:56 v2px meant: when i try to /scratchbox/login Mar 13 13:41:19 how can i fix this? Mar 13 13:45:15 well, is $USER empty? Mar 13 13:45:16 v2px: export USER=`basename ~` Mar 13 13:45:28 and did you use sbox_adduser or whatever to add your user? Mar 13 13:45:30 hi chaps Mar 13 13:45:45 anyone here used QJson? Mar 13 13:46:01 oh hm, i tried setting USER but this time it worked for some reason Mar 13 13:46:05 thanks Mar 13 13:47:45 lardman: hey bru Mar 13 13:48:07 lardman: isn't it some run-off-the-mill JSon parser? Mar 13 13:48:38 hi crashanddie_ , yeah I think so, just wondering if it will handle multiple root-level objects Mar 13 13:48:57 not sure that's the right nomenclature either Mar 13 13:49:12 yeah, root objects in JSON Mar 13 13:49:31 hmm, actually I guess if you have multiple root level objects, they should be in an array anyway Mar 13 13:49:40 exactly Mar 13 13:49:52 and from the look of the api they will be, damn my little netbook screen, was hard to tell the { and [ apart Mar 13 13:50:16 I think "doh!" is a suitable response here ;) Mar 13 13:51:16 what are you using JSON for? Mar 13 13:51:28 BTW, I'm getting the feeling JSON is the new XML/SOAP. Mar 13 13:51:41 am writing a house hunting app, and need to grab crime data to add to the mix Mar 13 13:51:49 http://policeapi2.rkh.co.uk/api/docs/method/crime-street/ Mar 13 13:52:12 nice Mar 13 13:52:32 looks like it's a map of root objects anyway Mar 13 13:52:47 an array is the root object I take it? Mar 13 13:53:03 lardman: #openstreetmap over on irc.oftc.net may have people with a clue Mar 13 13:53:11 ( or if you're a gtk dev, use DocScrutinizer's suggestion LD_PRELOAD a modified lib) My suggestion improved, just for the protocol. I suggested to implement it as a gtk theme, and you can set themes per app afaik Mar 13 13:53:11 aye Mar 13 13:53:21 SpeedEvil: thanks, I'll give this a go Mar 13 13:53:43 lardman: [ == map/array. { == object. Mar 13 13:54:02 Have already written the scraping code to grab the historical house price data, just need to find a site which also lists # bedrooms for the properties so I can add in extra info Mar 13 13:54:14 then it's a case of analysis :) Mar 13 13:54:31 crashanddie_: ah map is an array, I see Mar 13 13:54:50 btw I'd happily accept all buttons to go slider-style Mar 13 13:55:31 lardman: yeah, sorry, I wrote a JSON parser this week so I'm a bit messed-up with the in-house keywords we use in our language :P Mar 13 13:56:13 I swear the spec writers just change keywords to confuse developers ;) Mar 13 13:56:21 and I think SHR already has such a slider button Mar 13 13:57:04 lardman: sometimes I get angry at myself because I used stupid names/keywords in the spec I'm implementing days later... Mar 13 13:57:06 crashandie: json is the replacement for xml as in soap, yeah Mar 13 13:57:15 it's a lot less verbose, but just as useful Mar 13 13:57:42 technically soap has schema junk Mar 13 13:57:46 but the reality is that it never worked Mar 13 13:57:59 and the impls were mostly incomplete/incorrect/incompatible Mar 13 13:58:03 yeah, it works nicely. We're moving quite a few of our proprietary protocols to JSON where appropriate. We have SOAP interfaces, proprietary, and JSON... Mar 13 13:58:19 maemo it picked soap Mar 13 13:58:31 which is depressing because soap was already mostly dead by the time they did Mar 13 13:58:40 well, SOAP is dead in consumer-space Mar 13 13:58:48 But in Enterprise, it's still going strong Mar 13 13:59:05 SOAP, in most cases, is still less broken than say... RMI... Mar 13 13:59:24 RMI gives you pain based on Java versions et all, which is just horrendous, but it's faster than SOAP Mar 13 13:59:43 (slider switches) look at mute, speaker: http://shr-project.org/trac/attachment/wiki/Screenshots/dialer2_.png Mar 13 13:59:47 IIRC, latest benchmarks I ran, SOAP was roughly 20-30% slower than RMI, which can be significant Mar 13 14:00:20 JSON is about 15% slower than our proprietary protocol, and about 10% faster than SOAP Mar 13 14:02:12 so json is slower than rmi? Mar 13 14:02:24 yeah Mar 13 14:02:50 well, I haven't compared the two side by side Mar 13 14:03:17 but our protocol is roughly on par with RMI (maybe a tad faster, less than 10%), so... Mar 13 14:06:44 hi does anybidy here have segfault with subversion ? Mar 13 14:07:08 ? Mar 13 14:07:26 when i type subversion on my N900 i have segfault Mar 13 14:07:59 'subversion' or 'svn'? and which version of svn? Mar 13 14:08:06 personally i don't use svn if i can avoid it Mar 13 14:08:18 svn: REPORT of '/!svn/vcc/default': Could not read response body: connection was closed by server. Mar 13 14:08:24 is my last runin w/ it of late Mar 13 14:08:38 oh joy Mar 13 14:08:50 svn: Working copy '.' locked | svn: run 'svn cleanup' to remove locks (type 'svn help cleanup' for details) Mar 13 14:09:08 i mean the svn command inside the N900 Mar 13 14:10:47 anyone know whether QString.replace() allows you to replace one string with another, but only do it once? Mar 13 14:17:55 * lardman heads into town to grab some lunch Mar 13 14:17:58 cu chaps later on Mar 13 14:23:52 "The MeeGo product is no direct N900 successor that much I can tell you as it has everything it takes for the style-conscious, always-connected enthusiast to love it." Mar 13 14:23:55 It's going to suck so much. Mar 13 14:29:35 that's what makes it fun and exciting! Mar 13 14:29:36 all new Mar 13 14:29:38 new bugs Mar 13 14:29:40 new old bugs Mar 13 14:29:48 new different ui Mar 13 14:29:53 new confusing ui metaphors Mar 13 14:30:28 GeneralAntilles: where's that quote coming from? Mar 13 14:31:07 I bet that this meego product will have less features than the N900 Mar 13 14:31:15 and it wont have any of the features the N900 is missing Mar 13 14:31:38 jonwil: great story Mar 13 14:31:45 bashing meego is very productive Mar 13 14:32:17 I am not trying to bash MeeGo, just be realistic based on how little Nokia seems to care about Linux since the Windows announcement Mar 13 14:32:33 they are releasing one "product" for MeeGo (that may not even be a phone as such) Mar 13 14:32:37 lava: it is! Mar 13 14:32:47 setting low expectations is vey important to success Mar 13 14:32:51 which will get even less post-release support than the N900 got Mar 13 14:33:15 it's much easier to exceed low expectations than to attain high expectations :) Mar 13 14:33:18 if you are sort of useful you can get meego running on the 1ghz omap3 archos 7.0 right now Mar 13 14:33:37 jonwil: i believe that's "one meego related device" Mar 13 14:33:43 GeneralAntilles: I hate to say I toldya Mar 13 14:33:45 i don't think we've actually claimed it'd be a product :) Mar 13 14:34:08 it might be possible for us to literally ship unit and fulfill our promise :) Mar 13 14:35:32 regardless of what Nokia may do, I am still glad I bought the N900 Mar 13 14:35:54 Nokia have released a cellphone that is more open than any other 3G cellphone to date Mar 13 14:36:02 i'm still depressed that i didn't expense an n900 corporate phone :( Mar 13 14:36:05 Lava_Croft: unreflected meego fanboyism also doesn't help Mar 13 14:36:14 DocScrutinizer: but im not a meego fanboi Mar 13 14:36:24 if saying that bashing meego is unproductive makes me a fanboy Mar 13 14:36:25 then be it Mar 13 14:36:41 at least im not in the silly process of bashing an unreleased product Mar 13 14:36:42 The N900 is certainly more open than any Android phone to date, even the Nexus One/Nexus S Mar 13 14:36:49 Lava_Croft: and jonwil's assumption is quite well based on what we heard about harmattan and meego handset ux so far Mar 13 14:37:01 speculation for the win Mar 13 14:37:09 fanboy, fanboy Mar 13 14:37:11 but dont let me stop you Mar 13 14:37:19 at least bashing meego might make the maemo failure look better Mar 13 14:37:36 Lava_Croft: bashing a released product is way more silly than criticism during development Mar 13 14:37:39 and unlike HTC and Motorola and other vendors in the Android space, Nokia doesn't violate the GPL or withhold code Mar 13 14:37:52 DocScrutinizer: not from the end-user perspective Mar 13 14:38:06 who here is an end user?? ;-P Mar 13 14:38:59 maybe that's what the meego gods want us to be, endusers of their brilliant inventions Mar 13 14:39:02 Not only that, there is someone currently at Nokia (qgill) looking into the possibility of releasing even more N900 code Mar 13 14:39:06 that's not going to happen Mar 13 14:39:25 at least its reassuring to see that this community is mostly like any open source community Mar 13 14:39:28 havent heard if that discussion has gone anywhere or if its still ongoing though Mar 13 14:39:49 which means it consists out of bashing the supposed opposition instead of trying to better yourself Mar 13 14:39:52 docscrutinizer: afaict the target audience for product n+1 is generally picked to be distinct from product n Mar 13 14:39:55 solution! Mar 13 14:40:30 the other thing about the N900 is that the hardware is the most documented of any 3G cellphone, making porting alternative OSs to it easier Mar 13 14:40:37 documented in the sense of the code being there Mar 13 14:40:42 e.g. ofono Mar 13 14:40:54 damn, where he went? I was about to kick him for trolling Mar 13 14:42:56 Anyone know which bug or forum or mailing list or other item I should follow if I want to see any results that come out of what qgill is doing? Mar 13 14:43:09 i.e. should anything happen, where will it happen? Mar 13 14:44:14 jonwil: Leaked schematics and stuff hep a fair chunk too. Mar 13 14:44:35 leaked schematics are available for plenty of other cellphones Mar 13 14:47:33 True Mar 13 14:47:37 The other plus about the N900 is that its the only phone that even pretends to be open that has a landscape qwerty keyboard Mar 13 14:47:47 All the others are touchscreen only AFAIK Mar 13 14:47:53 Freerunner, Nexus One, Nexus S etc Mar 13 14:49:37 Lava_Croft: btw the most silly thing is to talk about meego as a 'product to release', as that in itself makes meego a major fail - it's supposed to be *developed* in public, and so bashing it at any state of development is perfectly valid, while suggesting a "wait til it gets released" is mere bullsh*t Mar 13 14:50:04 im sorry, im already bored of you Mar 13 14:50:12 already had like 10000123543215214351432521435431524135143 of your kind in the past years Mar 13 14:50:29 but you can write me an email if you like, and put everything you want to share with me in there Mar 13 14:50:50 well, we had like 17.3 trolls like you in this channel, and most of them were more funny Mar 13 14:50:58 yeah, im the one trolling here Mar 13 14:51:02 im sorry for not bashing meego Mar 13 14:51:10 i should know better than not to bash the other options Mar 13 14:51:20 but even after all these years, i still cant get myself to do it Mar 13 14:51:36 im not the type to join a channel belonging to a linux distro and then go about bashing some other distro Mar 13 14:51:46 i believe in making myself better by improvement, not by bashing the other Mar 13 14:52:02 let's leave it at that, i think we both have better things to do Mar 13 14:52:09 and more productive too! Mar 13 14:52:22 that's all to your liking, bit please refrain from blaming and educating others here Mar 13 14:52:32 no Mar 13 14:54:08 it's perfectly OK to have a different opinion than even Nokia employees that state about meego development and what they think it will result in, it's not OK to blame them for not sharing your take on it Mar 13 14:54:30 or call them silly, for this particular case Mar 13 14:54:51 it's not ok to bash stuff Mar 13 14:54:53 period Mar 13 14:55:11 you can also quit now, since you will not get through to me with your probably very important truth Mar 13 14:55:20 i cannot be helped Mar 13 14:55:20 ok, you want a kick for bashing jonwill? Mar 13 14:55:27 go threaten me Mar 13 14:55:39 people that want action just take action Mar 13 14:55:44 they dont go about threatening folks Mar 13 14:55:57 if you think that you can impress me this way, it's not really working Mar 13 14:56:03 it's actually making your point a lot less valid Mar 13 14:56:14 ill go do something productive now Mar 13 14:56:18 like bash ubuntu Mar 13 14:56:20 <_< Mar 13 14:56:36 Lava_Croft: I'm trying to keep this channel friendly. My feeling is it's you who is bringing unfriendly moods in here. So this is my first warning Mar 13 14:57:02 yeah, bashing meego is fine Mar 13 14:57:07 but calling the bashing silly is being unfriendly Mar 13 14:57:11 infalliable logic Mar 13 14:57:17 just kick me if you feel the need Mar 13 14:57:22 or dont if you dont feel the need Mar 13 14:57:26 but dont go threaten Mar 13 14:57:57 ping me if you think you can stop bitching Mar 13 15:06:59 Mar 13 15:07:37 (slide to answer) >>But you can go further than that. You can actually modify your application logic while the program is running ... ***Allows modification of the properties for any widget.*** << http://chipx86.github.com/gtkparasite/ Mar 13 15:07:38 So, what is new and exciting? Bankrupcies? Anyone important died? In a suicide? Mar 13 15:08:28 Doc: Meego should adopt the graphics style they chose for the logo =) Mar 13 15:08:32 * DocScrutinizer moo's at RST38h Mar 13 15:14:25 http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/beforeafter.htm japan before/after pics Mar 13 15:16:28 Ah, I was going to postthat :) Mar 13 15:20:34 DocScrutinizer: Next time, I'd suggest raising a bug of suitably high priority, and adding niels@maemo.org, henri@maemo.org & council.maemo.org to the CC. Mar 13 15:20:58 Jaffa: regarding what? Mar 13 15:21:01 DocScrutinizer: If it isn't quickly acted on, the Council can forward it on to Nemein support Mar 13 15:21:04 infra down? Mar 13 15:21:21 DocScrutinizer: Server outage (that seemed to be what your ping was about) Mar 13 15:21:32 yep, thanks Mar 13 15:25:50 Jaffa: how's council elections progress? Mar 13 15:27:54 DocScrutinizer, feel like running for council? Mar 13 15:28:04 nah Mar 13 15:29:04 i nearly submitted a nomination for you DocScrutinizer Mar 13 15:29:10 hi can anybody help me in repartitionning the flash ? i m afraid of loosing my /home Mar 13 15:29:11 omg Mar 13 15:29:30 DocScrutinizer, but then I thought of how you would rage Mar 13 15:29:34 you woudn't want me in council Mar 13 15:29:40 exactly Mar 13 15:30:19 who else could be nominated though Mar 13 15:30:28 I know I'm not a polite and nice guy :-) Mar 13 15:30:38 have the current council given nominations or been nominated again? Mar 13 15:30:51 hey penguinbait \o Mar 13 15:31:03 let us nominate abilluk! Mar 13 15:31:08 and yss too Mar 13 15:31:26 try it Mar 13 15:31:41 it might have effect of convincing others to stand Mar 13 15:33:05 hey lcuk!! Mar 13 15:34:01 lcuk: I'll call you Machiavelli now Mar 13 15:35:11 machinavelli Mar 13 15:37:41 Eeek: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51179.html Mar 13 15:38:29 moo javispedro Mar 13 15:43:13 morning Mar 13 15:44:04 Aloha Mar 13 15:49:06 so, how's the newly formed abill_uk maemo council? Mar 13 15:49:42 Hah, what? Mar 13 15:50:04 They have decided to petition Steve Jobs to port iOS to N900. Mar 13 15:50:05 I must have missed that. Mar 13 15:50:50 Heh Mar 13 15:52:36 i am sure stevie would just love to that...... Mar 13 15:55:55 Have I missed some hilarious tmo pthread or something? Mar 13 15:58:30 alterego, it was just mentioned up there before you entered ^^ Mar 13 15:58:31 let us nominate abilluk! Mar 13 15:58:31 and yss too Mar 13 15:58:31 try it Mar 13 15:58:31 it might have effect of convincing others to stand Mar 13 16:00:39 Heh Mar 13 16:00:47 Not enough people interested in being council members? Mar 13 16:00:51 Well, this isn't good .. Mar 13 16:02:05 what's the difference between a regional and a global firmware ? Mar 13 16:03:30 anybody want me to nominate them? Mar 13 16:04:07 pupaway: Anyone can put themselves forward Mar 13 16:05:38 DocScrutinizer: Status: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2011-March/004707.html Mar 13 16:06:02 The council is probably more important now than it has ever been Mar 13 16:06:20 alterego: Agreed Mar 13 16:07:49 Jaffa: you're the only one who haven't checked out CSSU icon :) Mar 13 16:08:48 I'm not council material, I'd run if I realy thought I could offer anything Mar 13 16:09:09 Jaffa: is there a sticky thread on TMO? if not, why? Mar 13 16:09:30 Japan: Shinmoedake Volcano erupts http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpl3VK3dl7I Mar 13 16:09:42 material, shmaterial, who cares? Mar 13 16:09:55 pupnik: oh, volcano too??? Mar 13 16:10:05 ohnoes, poor Japan Mar 13 16:10:18 earthquake. tsunami. nuclear meltdown. volcano. Mar 13 16:10:19 wazd: I did, I said "nice". Like it very much. Mar 13 16:10:31 You know who is going to be in that blank, right? Mar 13 16:11:05 DocScrutinizer: There should be. Although, IMHO, there are too many sticky threads in the _Community_ forum. Mar 13 16:11:08 Deities must have decided to erase Japan from earths surface Mar 13 16:11:49 RST38h: meteor? Mar 13 16:11:57 no, of course not Mar 13 16:12:05 the meteor is from a different movie Mar 13 16:12:10 DocScrutinizer: I dunno, tho', since I've not had chance to check TMO all week. Mar 13 16:12:20 Jaffa: ah, cool :) Mar 13 16:12:44 Jaffa: me neither Mar 13 16:12:58 someone already said on slashdot "just evacuate the entire island and let it sink!" Mar 13 16:13:09 Jaffa: the odd thing is tmo obviously is seeing much broader audience Mar 13 16:13:26 DocScrutinizer: There are many people in the Council who were elected because of their ability to be non-technical, "end-user" focused and TMO active. Mar 13 16:14:08 DocScrutinizer: RevdKathy should be able to do it, for example. Mar 13 16:14:45 so one of the most noble duties of council is to care about next term. I'd suggest those members go starting a massive advertising on tmo - if not done already Mar 13 16:14:47 RST38h: godzilla. Mar 13 16:14:50 Jaffa: This once again forces me to ask: "What are the real tangible results of the current council work?" Mar 13 16:14:55 javispedro: But of course! Mar 13 16:15:08 Jaffa: And if there are none, why do we need the council? Mar 13 16:16:05 RST38h: I've answered this before. Mar 13 16:16:14 DocScrutinizer: Agreed Mar 13 16:16:30 We need the council more than ever now, to continue to plan a migration strategy for if/when Nokia walk away from maemo.org Mar 13 16:16:42 RST38h, I would like to know the CSSU is in good hands and that our N900s will continue to be great devices for many people. Mar 13 16:16:56 Jaffa: If it weren't that silly, I'd say nobody may leave council until (s)he found a next tenant for own position Mar 13 16:17:06 lcuk: The CSSU is not being developed by the council. It is being developed by individuals. Mar 13 16:18:22 RST38h, it helps to bring focus, the CSSU core developers are one subset, to rally the testers and communicate about the additions and changes and to ensure the user experience is actually improved is important Mar 13 16:18:29 Yeah, I don't think there's any council involvement in CSSU currently. Mar 13 16:18:41 Dunno, I have not seen the council doing that Mar 13 16:19:03 alterego: isn't smoku's project the thing to do? Mar 13 16:19:18 RST38h, do you think they could though? Mar 13 16:19:29 lcuk: No, I do not think they could. Mar 13 16:19:58 RST38h: council are moderators and editors in some way. look at http://maemo.org/community/council to see part of what they are doing all the time Mar 13 16:20:33 Doc: What part of this page should I specifically look at? Mar 13 16:20:45 RST38h, also, the current council have been involved in CSSU btw Mar 13 16:21:36 lcuk: How? Mar 13 16:22:16 RST38h: e-g by making the hosting on those servers happen, if not anything else? Mar 13 16:22:31 alterego: Thanks. I'll sod off then. Mar 13 16:22:52 Doc: AFAIK, the hosting is being handled by Nokia employees and contractors responsible for maemo.org Mar 13 16:23:05 * javispedro could see a smaller council. Mar 13 16:23:09 Doc:And even without that, one could simply create a thirdparty repo on his own Mar 13 16:23:12 I said make it happen, not do it Mar 13 16:23:23 RST38h, jaffa has been implicit in the CSSU and has been involved in many of the conversations and discussions between Nokia people and the maemo infrastructure Mar 13 16:24:07 alterego: The Council a) provides the empowerment to give MohammadAG the repos on maemo.org and say "*this* is official"; b) I wouldn't've been so bothered about doing the wiki pages, bug triaging, communication and repeatedly asking the same questions on TMO if I wasn't on the council. Mar 13 16:24:11 his advice, thoughts and feedback into the process have helped connect the dots between the code and actually trying to turn it into an SSU Mar 13 16:24:28 lcuk: s/implicit/explicit/, please :-p Mar 13 16:24:32 Jaffa: oh, I didn't realise there are official repos now :P Mar 13 16:24:39 s/implicit/explicit/ Mar 13 16:24:56 My take on the council isn't about voluntary coding work or anything similar, the council has to have a comprehensive idea what's going on both in Nokia and community, and advocate between those and of course inside community Mar 13 16:25:02 alterego: The CSSU, since launch, has been on maemo.org Mar 13 16:25:08 DocScrutinizer: Thank you. Mar 13 16:25:15 Jaffa, apologies, I am merely trying to point out the good work you have done to date :) Mar 13 16:25:20 I've been quite distracted away from maemo recently and have mainly been working in meego, so I'm sorry, I must be behind on these developments :P Mar 13 16:25:35 RST38h: Since you've never seen the value of the Council, your question is loaded. Mar 13 16:25:49 I was under the impression it was hosted by mohammed Mar 13 16:25:59 Obviously I am wrong :P Mar 13 16:26:06 alterego: No. There was a prototype which was. Mar 13 16:26:58 Yes, I see t hat now, I'm just a little out of date :) Mar 13 16:26:58 Anyway, the meme "all the coding is done by MohammadAG" is also wrong. There are patches from me, thp, Sc0rpius and others all included. Mar 13 16:27:08 Jaffa: If I had seen the value,I would not ask though Mar 13 16:27:24 I know that there are a fair few contributors :P Mar 13 16:27:42 alterego: Indeed, it was a general comment ;-) Mar 13 16:28:33 RST38h: Then you're missing the point. Mar 13 16:30:58 Might be, although not receiving a concise response to my question bother me. Mar 13 16:31:20 RST38h: you got shitloads of answers Mar 13 16:31:47 the most short one now: council = TSG Mar 13 16:31:56 RST38h: Some things this term: sponsored participants to MeeGo Conference with a Maemo background, liaising with Forum Nokia on Qt updates in Extras-devel, CSSU, maemo.org ownership, liaising with Nokia on further license change requests, ... Mar 13 16:32:45 #define liasising Mar 13 16:33:10 As I understand,"maemo.orgownership"is not really an activity Mar 13 16:33:15 RST38h: lmgtfy.com/search?q=define:liaising Mar 13 16:33:22 The CSSU stuff is done by concrete people, none of whom are council people Mar 13 16:33:37 Jaffa, I never take credit for something I didn't do, you probably know that :) Mar 13 16:33:40 RST38h: Fuck off. I'm a council person and I'm involved in the CSSU Mar 13 16:34:08 Sponsoring conference participants I can understand and welcome, although I am a bit unclear about where money came from Mar 13 16:34:15 RST38h: so what? which part of Technical Steering Group was it that's so hard to understand? Mar 13 16:34:28 This leaves the "liasing" thing, so what does it mean? Mar 13 16:34:30 RST38h: And, as I said above, I did things which don't directly scratch my itches because of Council membership Mar 13 16:34:40 Doc:Part where the council does actual steering Mar 13 16:34:43 I sense an argument of some sort around here? Mar 13 16:34:48 * MohammadAG goes back to idling Mar 13 16:35:00 RST38h: The money came from the MeeGo project, why does it matter where the money came from? Mar 13 16:35:30 MohammadAG: Yes, it's not worth your time. Nor, for that matter, mine. Goes off to spend time with kids. Mar 13 16:35:31 Jaffa: Because if the Meego project sponsors a few maemo people for the conference, then the Meego project should take credit for that, right? Mar 13 16:36:22 RST38h: you're really playing stupid here :-/ Mar 13 16:36:37 Jaffa, I just try to avoid arguments, whether they waste time or not, unless I'm the one who "started" or caused it Mar 13 16:37:13 RST38h: The MeeGo project wanted to sponsor people who were involved in the MeeGo project. We argued that people from the parent communities should be involved as "potential" (and past) contributors. Then, one of the council (specifically me) was involved in the decision making committee. Mar 13 16:37:49 Using the same model that the Maemo Community Council used for the Amsterdam summit. Mar 13 16:38:03 Ok Mar 13 16:38:06 Fair Mar 13 16:38:48 and that's *exactly* what council is all about. Not about contributing patches to CSSU Mar 13 16:40:09 council isn't a beauty contest of the most productive coders or whatever you seem to consider it Mar 13 16:40:49 I'd be happy if the council weren't even programmers :) Mar 13 16:41:08 I wouldn't be happy if abill_uk was a member Mar 13 16:41:19 hi i m trying to resize my flash without reflash ; when i copy from /home to mmc i have to preserve the file rights no ? Mar 13 16:41:31 cp -a does that for you Mar 13 16:41:47 ha ok Mar 13 16:41:50 anyway, use the MeeGo initrd image and gparted Mar 13 16:41:54 it makes resizing piss easy Mar 13 16:42:09 and symlinks .... Mar 13 16:42:25 what about them? you're changing the partition table, not the files Mar 13 16:42:26 you have a link ? Mar 13 16:42:31 I'd not. Council need a lot of knowledge about system architecture and coding tools and practices to maintain a comprehensive understanding of what's going on where and how to make things fit together nicely Mar 13 16:42:41 alterego: ^^^ Mar 13 16:42:41 http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd <-- quite awesome Mar 13 16:42:55 I have another partition on my eMMC for MeeGo Mar 13 16:43:33 MohammadAG: cp -a doesn't help when copying a ext2/3 to vfat Mar 13 16:43:44 vfat needs to die Mar 13 16:43:56 vfat can't store permissions, it's not cp's fault :P Mar 13 16:45:09 DocScrutinizer: fair point Mar 13 16:45:52 I guess a good overview of how things are done around here is important. Mar 13 16:50:43 Darn, N900 failed to update the clock on todays DST transition Mar 13 16:50:58 MohammadAG: in your link ; emmc is the full mmcblk0 not only Mydocs right ? Mar 13 16:51:32 was not a failure of the provider either. after I rebooted the N900 the clock was right. it seems it just did not update the clock if the signal was not lost or something? Mar 13 16:52:56 njsf: I think maemo doesn't correctly manage automatic switching of DST. BTW where is DST switched today? Mar 13 16:53:08 troulouliou, yes Mar 13 16:53:58 MohammadAG: and flasher won't remove any file is is just an util to reboot on a different kernel Mar 13 16:54:06 ? Mar 13 16:54:12 yes Mar 13 16:54:14 yes Mar 13 16:54:22 yes looks pisssed easy then :) Mar 13 16:54:25 at least here Mar 13 16:54:49 as I said :) Mar 13 16:55:20 has anybody updated the broken link on that page? Mar 13 16:55:29 don'l like to install gparted on my system but will do it temporary then Mar 13 16:55:44 US Mar 13 16:56:04 njsf: weird US Mar 13 16:56:38 yes, they advanced it for 2 weeks Mar 13 16:57:03 but what I was surprised with was the fact that it did not pickup the DST change from the provider Mar 13 16:57:07 so how should maemo know about that? Mar 13 16:57:13 like the throw away phones do Mar 13 16:57:30 DocScrutinizer it should take hint from the time the cell gives it Mar 13 16:57:33 since I have that checked Mar 13 16:57:50 either that or then _do_ NTP Mar 13 16:57:51 it does, but sometimes not on boot Mar 13 16:58:08 it _only_ did on boot Mar 13 16:58:13 switching to tablet mode and back usually helps Mar 13 16:58:48 njsf: nah, carrier is sending time with registration AIUI Mar 13 16:58:51 no really caring about what "should help" Mar 13 16:59:32 then I was just unlucky by having consistent carrier connection ? :) Mar 13 16:59:44 somewhat, yes Mar 13 16:59:53 wouldn't the N900 get it on transition from 2.5-3-3.5 G ? Mar 13 16:59:59 I saw it transition Mar 13 17:00:13 and no time update Mar 13 17:00:20 njsf: err Mar 13 17:00:27 it should get time when T3212 reregistration timer expires Mar 13 17:00:27 did you check the box asking for automatic time updates? Mar 13 17:00:37 troulouliou, on your PC of course Mar 13 17:00:40 as for the N900 "knowing", there should probably be a tz update from CSS ? Mar 13 17:01:09 It varies between operators how and when they send time. My other operator only sends on establishing hew gprs connection Mar 13 17:01:12 timeless_w7ip: _of course_ otherwise I would not be talking about it Mar 13 17:01:30 you'd be surprised Mar 13 17:01:34 :) Mar 13 17:01:45 njsf: on boot however, I've seen registration on GSM just being "too fast" so it gets lost in halfway init Mar 13 17:02:07 I was angry for half a month when N900 kept "unlocking itself". Turned out I had "lock automatically" unticked :x Mar 13 17:02:37 Is there any package that adds ntp already ? Mar 13 17:02:40 njsf: or too slow, or whatever Mar 13 17:02:52 DocScrutinizer ok got it. Mar 13 17:02:55 MohammadAG: the file in your link ( initrd and kernel are out of date) can i use the latest one or i should pick those from archive.meego ? Mar 13 17:03:23 yes, there's ntp pkg. It's not really optimized for random connectivity devices like mobile phones Mar 13 17:03:25 course you could use the latest ones Mar 13 17:03:36 I wouldn't run openntp, it would be a significant impact on battery life Mar 13 17:03:45 "Optimized" Mar 13 17:03:55 openntpd craps all over itself when the network connection goes down. Mar 13 17:04:10 exactly Mar 13 17:04:10 DocScrutinizer what do you mean by not optimized for random connectivity ? it will cause new internet connections to be established ? Mar 13 17:04:13 And never re-establishes sync until you restart it. Mar 13 17:04:23 ah ok thanks derf Mar 13 17:04:38 that is weird, because regular ntp is kinda resilient to that Mar 13 17:04:43 also it polls every 64s always, doesn't it? Mar 13 17:05:01 No, I have a cronjob restart it every day even on my desktop for the same reason. Mar 13 17:05:08 njsf: go for a "cronjob" calling ntpdate every 6 hours or somesuch Mar 13 17:05:10 well... if you compare ntp and openntp, openntp is a joke Mar 13 17:05:27 DocScrutinizer, good idea, I have alarmed installed Mar 13 17:05:38 I suspect that is why you quoted "cronjob" Mar 13 17:05:52 yep Mar 13 17:08:26 Does anybidy here have a segfault error when they use subversion ? Mar 13 17:13:33 http://blog.internetcases.com/2011/03/12/facebook-privacy-photo-tagging-attorney-chicago-lawyer-social-media/ <- sanity! Mar 13 17:34:41 what is the package name / repos where ntp is ? Mar 13 17:34:52 dpkg-query -l *ntp returns zilch Mar 13 17:35:13 well, facebook/twitter + automatic tagging of faces by ever-getting-smarter recognition technologies = 1984 big brother on a commercial basis rather than a authority-driven one Mar 13 17:35:41 you do not want that Mar 13 17:36:23 credit card transactions + accounting all RFIDs currently used for goods storage and security = PROFIT Mar 13 17:36:51 your face is really not that important, and neither is your facebook/twitter drivel :) Mar 13 17:37:00 MohammadAG, Mar 13 17:37:51 RST38h what is thea new thing they added to nexus S Mar 13 17:37:57 NFC or something Mar 13 17:41:44 RST38h: when everybody and his mad dog is taking photos of me walking down the street and uploads it to twitter for letting everybody know what she's doing atm, then it is Mar 13 17:43:18 DocScrutinizer do you have the name of the ntpdate package? Mar 13 17:43:33 can't find it through apt-get or dpkg-query Mar 13 17:43:35 njsf: I'm afraid there's none for maemo Mar 13 17:43:46 ntpdate was depreciated iirc Mar 13 17:43:54 yup, a pity Mar 13 17:44:13 *deprecated ;P Mar 13 17:44:13 (1:01:14 PM) DocScrutinizer: yes, there's ntp pkg. It's not really optimized for random connectivity devices like mobile phones Mar 13 17:44:21 Near Field Communication Mar 13 17:44:23 ah ok Mar 13 17:44:29 a concept that'll take at least 10 years to be in Israel Mar 13 17:44:33 what was the reason ? Mar 13 17:44:34 njsf: you can use ntpd -q or something like that Mar 13 17:44:40 Is it worthwhile I try to package it ? Mar 13 17:44:45 njsf: it will run ntp for a few minutes then die. Mar 13 17:45:13 then where can I find ntpd ? Mar 13 17:45:22 also not finding it Mar 13 17:45:35 njsf: I'd much appreciate that. ntpdate is poorly replaced by ntpd Mar 13 17:45:45 http://maemo.org/packages/view/openntpd/ Mar 13 17:46:20 thanks javispedro Mar 13 17:46:48 actually I think that deprecation was a failure Mar 13 17:47:06 for quick syncs plain rdate is a better protocol either way ;) Mar 13 17:47:39 ntpd doesn't support/replace all the fuctions of ntpdate Mar 13 17:49:07 but depending on how much in a hurry you are it is "good enough". not to mention it is way more precise than ntpdate. Mar 13 17:49:12 Doc: Yes, maybe, but consider this Mar 13 17:50:21 ok got it installed, I guess I am good for now. thanks all Mar 13 17:50:22 Doc: You walk that street, and a little metal box at a nearest lamppost registers the UIDs of you coat, your shoes, your cell phone, your dog's collar, and the dogfood your dog has eaten for lunch Mar 13 17:51:08 Doc: this data gets checked against purchase records andmatched to your CC which is matched to your name and residential address Mar 13 17:51:31 Doc: no images ever enter this chain Mar 13 17:56:11 * javispedro curses Mar 13 17:56:21 libc debug symbols don't match the actual pr1.3 library Mar 13 17:57:18 hm... Mar 13 17:58:00 despite the same debian package version.. Mar 13 17:59:20 javispedro: moot points. Nobody should deprecate a tool for a inferior alternative. I am missing a way to just *display* the ntp server's time to compare it to my local sysclock, rather than actually setting it Mar 13 17:59:56 ntpdate? Mar 13 18:00:01 yup Mar 13 18:00:25 another problem solved ;) Mar 13 18:00:31 eh? Mar 13 18:01:19 NFC isn't exactly cool as a framework for mesh communication between users Mar 13 18:02:03 pupnik, depends how much info you can pass by making phones high 5 Mar 13 18:02:11 ZFC is much better Mar 13 18:02:13 dm8tbr: in case you missed sth: >> Mar 13 18:02:14 halley:/media # ntpdate --help Mar 13 18:02:16 !!!!!!!!!!!!!! WARNING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mar 13 18:02:17 The ntpdate program is deprecated and should not be used any more. To quote the upstream ntp developers: "The functionality ntpdate offered is now provided by the ntpd daemon itself. If you call ntpd with the command line option -q it will retrieve the current time and set it accordingly." Mar 13 18:02:55 DocScrutinizer: cute, I'd just disable that output though :) Mar 13 18:03:09 that's not cute, that's a lie Mar 13 18:03:39 as evidently (or I'm mistaken) ntpd does NOT completely replace ntpdate Mar 13 18:03:55 see the post you answered to Mar 13 18:04:42 mhm, there are not really that many cases where you are interested in the offset and dont' want to set your clock though Mar 13 18:05:06 that's not friggin up to anybody else to decide for me Mar 13 18:08:02 and you failing to know about usecases where I'm interested in a correct time without messing with my local system time inevitably - doesn't mean there aren't any Mar 13 18:11:28 mind you I didn't say there "aren't any" Mar 13 18:12:45 whatever, it's an absolute failure of devels to deprecate ntpdate without taking care about a complete replacement that doesn't lack functionality of the deprecated program Mar 13 18:13:50 this is true for any tool, and absolutely unrelated to usecases, particularly of ntpdate Mar 13 18:19:39 ffs Mar 13 18:19:46 can any mobile other than the N900 focus in video? Mar 13 18:19:59 a 12MP cam in the N8, gone to waste for lack of macro Mar 13 18:20:08 and I can't film the N900 with the N900 Mar 13 18:21:06 ohmy *sigh* Mar 13 18:21:26 Heh Mar 13 18:21:49 MohammadAG: "there are not really that many cases where you are interested in filming macro" Mar 13 18:22:23 I even tried low light in the event it'd focus on the N900 Mar 13 18:22:27 (fixed focus) Mar 13 18:23:37 doc: didn't nokia put up a show of doing macro w/ a bunch of phones? Mar 13 18:24:49 timeless_w7ip: nfc Mar 13 18:24:56 for photos, yes Mar 13 18:25:05 for videos, not so much Mar 13 18:25:36 Yeah, macro video isn't particularly normal use case .. Mar 13 18:25:47 still, a nice feature to have Mar 13 18:25:53 it is a camera phone after all Mar 13 18:26:15 I'm just noticing the original unix spirit as e.g found in toolbox design principles is going oblivion more and more these days Mar 13 18:26:16 I have a sony handy cam, which shoots video with manual focus Mar 13 18:26:21 but it saves crap to a DVD, so I cba Mar 13 18:27:21 The N8 needs a new campaign Mar 13 18:27:28 It's not the megapixels, it's what you do with them Mar 13 18:28:59 rather you see more and more apps/tools designed for one particular purpose and trying to outsmart the user Mar 13 18:29:30 which is what a all learnt to hate M$ for Mar 13 18:29:41 s/ a / we / Mar 13 18:29:42 DocScrutinizer meant: which is what we all learnt to hate M$ for Mar 13 18:29:46 ? Mar 13 18:29:50 * timeless_w7ip likes MS Mar 13 18:29:55 and that's not a Nokia thing Mar 13 18:30:06 they might not have a Don't Be Evil mantra Mar 13 18:30:12 but their business practices aren't stupid Mar 13 18:30:16 unlike some companies Mar 13 18:30:26 And they make good Tools Mar 13 18:30:30 And have good support Mar 13 18:30:35 unlike some companies Mar 13 18:30:41 business considerations tend to fuck up OS architecture Mar 13 18:30:48 * timeless_w7ip ponders Mar 13 18:30:55 Not necessarily Mar 13 18:31:03 I mean, sure, if you're Nokia, they might Mar 13 18:31:17 but I don't think Sun's architecture was fucked up due to business considerations Mar 13 18:31:24 what was fucked up was their revenue stream Mar 13 18:31:43 anyway, bbl Mar 13 18:31:49 * DocScrutinizer ->dinner Mar 13 18:31:51 And I don't think IBM's OS/2 or other OS's had bad architecture due to business considerations Mar 13 18:32:01 agian, they had bad marketting Mar 13 18:32:09 alterego, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLn6yMLTEVg Mar 13 18:32:16 MS has even done a reasonable job in that category Mar 13 18:32:21 agian, unlike some companies Mar 13 18:32:39 but yeah, i like that dinner idea Mar 13 18:33:04 As for choosing to support existing software Mar 13 18:33:16 Apple does it, Microsoft does it, Sun/Oracle do it Mar 13 18:33:21 the only group that doesn't is Linux Mar 13 18:33:34 that doesn't make Linux well architected Mar 13 18:33:39 it makes Linux fluid Mar 13 18:33:57 with the ability to say "we changed our mind, we're going to do something else" Mar 13 18:34:26 it also means that Linux is under no obligation to think things out in advance and try to get it right the first or second or third time Mar 13 18:34:41 whereas a business which actually has to support things after they ship does try to get things right sooner Mar 13 18:34:47 as the cost of failing to do so is much higher Mar 13 18:36:07 feel free to ask Symbian about the cost of failing to get things right... Mar 13 18:36:27 3 billion in R&D? Mar 13 18:36:38 EOL Mar 13 18:36:57 And a dev base which curses every time it tries to do anything Mar 13 18:37:20 Symbian can do good things Mar 13 18:37:37 I mean, it's the reason I joined maemo.org! Mar 13 18:37:43 lol Mar 13 18:37:56 symbian has way too many poorly designed (hah) overlapping apis Mar 13 18:38:09 and a coding style which people learned to hate (and hated to learn) Mar 13 18:38:23 it made me hate C++ Mar 13 18:38:23 i actually like its principles but no one else does Mar 13 18:38:30 what principles Mar 13 18:38:47 I wanted to try C++ three years ago Mar 13 18:38:56 Carbide C++ didn't make it enjoyable Mar 13 18:38:59 if you're talking about being microkernelish, I'm in.... Mar 13 18:39:05 allocate objects carefully, check for failure, use init methods, properly release Mar 13 18:39:30 I'm surprised how many iOS apps segfault tbh Mar 13 18:39:48 javispedro: i'n quite willing to assume that the symbian kernel doesn't suck Mar 13 18:39:56 s/n/m/ Mar 13 18:39:57 timeless_w7ip meant: javispedro: i'm quite willing to assume that the symbian kernel doesn't suck Mar 13 18:43:58 * RST38h prays to the Tentacled One Mar 13 18:45:06 who's the tentacled one? Mar 13 18:45:25 have mercy upon MohammadAG 's soul. Mar 13 18:45:36 * MohammadAG wonders why he hated QML - besides it being interpreted Mar 13 18:45:42 Mohammad: http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/e/e3/Chthulu_office.jpg Mar 13 18:46:35 The canonical image of the Tentacled One, explaining specifics of OS kernel design to a salaried software engineer. Mar 13 18:48:31 hya guys. anyone knows of a widget to quickly change profiles? can find a quick way to do so Mar 13 18:48:56 MohammadAG, n900 video focusing is great, but you have to give it something to focus on - it can do spectacular results Mar 13 18:49:57 idk how you did not get yours focused for that video! Mar 13 18:51:39 iirc qml can be compiled... Mar 13 18:51:44 lcuk, that's an N8 Mar 13 18:51:52 that explains it :P Mar 13 18:52:04 RST38h, reminds me of south park Mar 13 18:52:10 zeltak: what's the matter with the default one? too many clicks? Mar 13 18:52:32 zeltak: what do you mean by profiles? Mar 13 18:52:34 zeltak: if you want a one-tap toggle between general and silent, use the switcher on the power key menu Mar 13 18:53:19 there's an addon that lets you add tablet mode to the power menu too fwiw Mar 13 18:55:16 BCMM: , timeless_xchat thx. and yes using the default one is to many clicks for someone lazy as me :) Mar 13 18:55:51 timeless_xchat: what is tablet mode? Mar 13 18:56:20 two clicks is too lazy? Mar 13 18:56:37 no, it's one press and a click, there's a difference! Mar 13 18:56:54 you spend 99% of your time at the home screen instead of using an app? Mar 13 18:57:02 well in 'normal mode' i have to click the task bar>click the profile icon>choose the profle and press done Mar 13 18:57:14 tablet mode turns off the GSM radio Mar 13 18:57:24 zeltak : err Mar 13 18:57:28 press the power key Mar 13 18:57:41 the thing that you use to turn *on* your n900 Mar 13 18:57:43 using the 2 click option with the power menu is not bad but dosent work with profilex as far as i can tell Mar 13 18:57:52 yeah got that , thats a cool trick Mar 13 18:58:07 wtf is profileX? Mar 13 18:58:12 only issue it dosent work with proflex (custom proflies) Mar 13 18:58:16 and see my note about tablet mode Mar 13 18:58:25 the menu is fully pluggable Mar 13 18:58:30 kk cool thx guys for the tips :) Mar 13 18:58:50 so it sounds like you should ask proflex to plug it Mar 13 18:59:05 yeah good idea :) Mar 13 19:00:11 fscking arm stack alignment Mar 13 19:00:47 !seen trx Mar 13 19:00:55 btw does anyone know if there is screen or tmux for the n900? Mar 13 19:02:27 zeltak, there is screen on the tools repository, it is not optified, but other than that it works great (for me) Mar 13 19:02:30 why would you want screen? Mar 13 19:02:38 just use ssh+screen Mar 13 19:07:17 zeltak: use queenbeecon buttons and execute a dbus-send cmd to set the profile of your choice Mar 13 19:09:27 or add several custom menu items of your own design and function to the power-menu Mar 13 19:15:46 sounds cool thx Mar 13 19:16:30 ShadSEC: what do you mean not optified btw? Mar 13 19:18:01 DocScrutinizer: can you point me to the documentation on how to chnage profiles through dbus? Mar 13 19:18:05 it means it's installed to /usr/bin, not to /opt Mar 13 19:18:32 thus eating space on rootfs which is a rare and precious resource Mar 13 19:18:41 zeltak: sure Mar 13 19:18:43 zeltak, it takes around 1MB of root filesystem... but you can symlink main binary to other place Mar 13 19:18:44 mompls Mar 13 19:19:04 sure thx Mar 13 19:19:05 optification is sth you can do yourself Mar 13 19:19:19 or add to the optification setiup Mar 13 19:20:11 http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Set_Silent Mar 13 19:20:48 cool thx DocScrutinizer Mar 13 19:22:44 for optification check /etc/maemo-optify-auto-opt.conf Mar 13 19:23:14 or ask lcuk ;-D Mar 13 19:24:46 also read all about optification at : Mar 13 19:24:49 DocScrutinizer, oh... is that a new feature or it was always there? :S Mar 13 19:24:50 ~optification Mar 13 19:24:51 optification is probably a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3 Mar 13 19:25:16 ShadSEC: NFC Mar 13 19:26:16 cdate here is 2010-04-15 Mar 13 19:27:05 first time I see that file... I was happy just mv/ln'ing the offenders, but that its pretty interesting, thx! Mar 13 19:27:52 the iPhone has rootfs on eMMC Mar 13 19:27:59 (if it's an eMMC anyway) Mar 13 19:33:10 DocScrutinizer, yep, and I have just checked it is in the backup I did before flashing PR1.3.... :S Mar 13 19:33:12 ah, this reminds me. Mar 13 19:34:09 DocScrutinizer: you're so going to love this: http://lwn.net/Articles/429695/ Mar 13 19:34:13 read the second quote. Mar 13 19:34:16 again hi all :) Mar 13 19:34:36 DocScrutinizer: I hope you recognize the guy behind it ;) Mar 13 19:34:55 WAAAAH Mar 13 19:35:34 I managed to install nitdroid/gingerbread, it works fine but very slow form a microsd class 4, I want now to install on eMMC, I need to repartition /home to more than 2GB. I read a method using backupmenu and then mounting it on a linux box and using gparted or whatever. However backupmenu refuses to install ! Why ??? Mar 13 19:35:44 backupmenu: Depends: bootmenu-n900 but it is not going to be installed Mar 13 19:35:50 it's slow with a Class 6 too Mar 13 19:36:02 it's slow even if you run it from memory Mar 13 19:36:10 it's slow, period. Not for everyday use yet,. Mar 13 19:36:25 gingerbread is good with milk. Mar 13 19:36:27 Sc0rpius: I heard from emmc it is much faster really Mar 13 19:36:32 lol Mar 13 19:36:55 and a crisp tasty apple for afterwards :) Mar 13 19:37:23 please someone give me a tip ! just want to install backupmenu on a multiboot configuration ! Mar 13 19:37:25 help ! Mar 13 19:37:32 * lcuk noted Tracy brought home an apply corer today Mar 13 19:37:45 s/apply/apple/ Mar 13 19:39:38 * timeless_xchat prefers yogurt Mar 13 19:47:30 Have anyone been able to do a fragmentation attack using lxp injection drivers? I am starting to think it is definitely not possible Mar 13 19:48:11 maybe do to it using mac80211 Mar 13 19:50:25 kpoman, you could try this instead of backupmenu -> http://wiki.maemo.org/Repartitioning_the_flash#Solution_.236:_Custom_repartitioning_from_a_linux_PC (If it's not too complicated) Mar 13 19:50:40 javispedro: JESUS HELP ALL OF US! with developers like lennart and mezcalero messing with system init and FHS, the future of linux is *bright* for sure Mar 13 19:51:29 DocScrutinizer: some good news though: mezcalero and lennart are the same, so there's only one of them! Mar 13 19:52:11 WTF?! Mar 13 19:52:24 wtf! Mar 13 19:53:07 mezcalero is his IRC nick or something Mar 13 19:54:48 javispedro: He fryed his cpu? Mar 13 19:55:23 wtf? Mar 13 19:55:30 Just asking Mar 13 19:55:44 What happened to mezxalero? Mar 13 19:56:30 see above lwn.net linkie Mar 13 20:05:09 Does semi-serious rude unpleasentness really pass for humor in Ottawa. . . . Mar 13 20:06:18 jacktheripper: I dont want to reflash my phone ! that is why I would like to do solution #8 Mar 13 20:06:39 http://wiki.maemo.org/Repartitioning_the_flash#Solution_.238:_The_GUI-Solution_for_arbitrary_size_for_.2Fhome_and_MyDocs_using_a_Linux_Live-CD_.28PR1.3_compatible.29 Mar 13 20:07:30 kpoman, you don't reflash your phone. flasher only boots the phone with a meego kernel temporarily (when you reboot, nothing is changed) Mar 13 20:07:55 kpoman, sol #8 might be easier though, when you figure out your problem Mar 13 20:08:44 jacktheripper: Im on ubuntu and dont have a package called flasher ! Mar 13 20:09:05 they say to install flash 3.5 ... what is that ? Mar 13 20:10:36 GAN900: Ottawa? Mar 13 20:10:50 it's the program that's used to flash your phone, or in this case make it boot the kernel Mar 13 20:11:44 jacktheripper: where do I get it for ubuntu ? Mar 13 20:12:03 nicolai outdid himself again http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=966929&postcount=73 Mar 13 20:12:15 I love the press T to turn on flash feature Mar 13 20:12:15 kpoman, http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php Mar 13 20:12:24 kpoman: multiboot and backupmenu conflict. I told you about multiboot being borked to the bone, and best to avoid it (and avoid nitdroid same thought) Mar 13 20:12:29 yep I am there but which package ? Mar 13 20:12:58 DocScrutinizer: yep sure but I really wanted to give nitdroid a try ! I did, it worked, but damn slow on microsd Mar 13 20:12:58 kpoman, maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2_i386.deb Mar 13 20:13:31 yep Mar 13 20:13:36 kpoman: it doesn't change the major fail that is multiboot, and especially uninstalling it Mar 13 20:13:38 I am getting it, dpkg -i then ? Mar 13 20:13:43 kpoman, yes Mar 13 20:13:51 javispedro, ever used an iPhone? Mar 13 20:14:16 MohammadAG: a few times, why? Mar 13 20:14:28 javispedro, do you know the slider to turn things on/off? Mar 13 20:14:42 what would be the check button on gtk? Mar 13 20:14:44 ok fine let me go further Mar 13 20:14:56 javispedro, would it be doable for 3 items? Mar 13 20:15:07 something similar to that slider Mar 13 20:15:21 best not to, it would be confusing.. Mar 13 20:15:31 not if done properly :p Mar 13 20:15:43 * javispedro has no idea how to do it "properly" then... Mar 13 20:15:53 lol Mar 13 20:16:00 unless you're thinking a puzzle-like UI with tetris-like pieces Mar 13 20:16:09 where the slider freely moves inside the T tetris piece Mar 13 20:16:38 umm, sort of Mar 13 20:16:53 basically, something like I-- Mar 13 20:17:10 dragging it would make it show -I- then --I Mar 13 20:17:39 ok installing rpm2cpio Mar 13 20:17:49 of course, I could use the stock Gtk Slider if there is one, but it looks fugly Mar 13 20:19:46 not the slider, but we have the selector thing Mar 13 20:20:01 screenshot? Mar 13 20:20:02 or rather just three state buttons Mar 13 20:20:14 like the 3G/2G applet? Mar 13 20:20:18 yep.. Mar 13 20:20:23 not that appealing, but they do the job Mar 13 20:21:08 * javispedro has not yet entered this today's trendy fashion of ignoring UI guidelines completely... Mar 13 20:21:13 DocScrutinizer, crazy Canadian tourists. Mar 13 20:21:46 javispedro, heh Mar 13 20:22:14 GAN900: thought you commented on http://lwn.net/Articles/429695/ Mar 13 20:23:54 javispedro: MohammadAG: (slide to answer) you noticed my prev link to gtkparasite? Mar 13 20:24:22 DocScrutinizer, no, but this isn't for slide to answer :) Mar 13 20:24:28 this is for slide to lock orientation Mar 13 20:24:31 Venemo, pingos Mar 13 20:24:34 I know... :-) Mar 13 20:24:43 double checking :) Mar 13 20:24:45 DocScrutinizer: yep, crazy stuff. Mar 13 20:24:50 ZogG: pongos Mar 13 20:25:11 MohammadAG, hmm, and if totally change lockscreen file Mar 13 20:25:17 closed one Mar 13 20:25:23 or answer call file Mar 13 20:25:28 javispedro: looks like a decent base to start tweaking closed source apps, like dialer Mar 13 20:25:41 i mean you make yours and rename it to the original one and change Mar 13 20:25:47 Venemo, have you seen? Mar 13 20:25:55 ZogG, no I haven't seen Mar 13 20:25:56 ZogG, no one can replace the stock dialer properly Mar 13 20:26:10 MohammadAG, ? Mar 13 20:26:28 ZogG: way too complex Mar 13 20:26:39 maybe if 50 devs started a project... Mar 13 20:26:45 =( Mar 13 20:26:49 they might end up with a 70% complete replacement Mar 13 20:27:17 maybe if you took 100 people like me, i do shitty code as Nokia so... Mar 13 20:27:24 =) Mar 13 20:27:38 hell, even original dialer probably is only 95% complete ;-D Mar 13 20:27:56 ok that will make me a 16GB fat mydocs, a 8gb ext3 /home, then the rest to play on the near future :) Mar 13 20:28:03 apply !!! Mar 13 20:28:12 DocScrutinizer, but compared to the original dialer, the original dialer is 100% complete Mar 13 20:28:15 see what I did there? Mar 13 20:29:05 jacktheripper:I didnt know about that flasher tool ! quite cool :p Mar 13 20:29:28 kpoman, oh yes it is Mar 13 20:29:51 jacktheripper: do you know they keep telling that nitdroid partition should be on p2 and of 2gb ? Mar 13 20:30:25 MohammadAG: what is the remaining 30%? Mar 13 20:30:29 or is it just a matter of editing /etc/multiboot entry ? Mar 13 20:30:59 MohammadAG, and reverse engineering? =) Mar 13 20:31:04 kpoman, I never followed any instructions installing nitdroid and its working, so I guess no such constraints. I wrote that wiki section myself btw xD Mar 13 20:31:13 Venemo, do you have time? Mar 13 20:32:17 ZogG: well, not exactly. but you can ask and I'll try to answer :) Mar 13 20:32:41 ZogG, even if I don't have much time, I'll be able to point you to the right direction Mar 13 20:33:04 Veggen, missing stuff :P Mar 13 20:33:05 look at https://github.com/funkycode/fresh/blob/master/mainwindow.cpp#L91 Mar 13 20:33:08 Venemo, * Mar 13 20:33:12 sorry Veggen Mar 13 20:33:14 jacktheripper: ok it had a problem while partediting !! lol... I am stuffed up now :p I guess it disconnected then reconnected Mar 13 20:33:23 still can act on it :) Mar 13 20:33:24 MohammadAG: ok, but what stuff? Mar 13 20:33:36 Venemo, and than https://github.com/funkycode/fresh/blob/master/mainwindow.cpp#L348 Mar 13 20:34:00 ZogG: what's wrong? Mar 13 20:34:04 the second one actually is callback for change song Mar 13 20:34:05 move sdb2 to the left and grow from 2gb to 8gb ... doing it again right now ! hope it wont die :p Mar 13 20:34:14 Venemo, i don't get how to change label from it Mar 13 20:34:53 ZogG: I already told you that these callback functions are not intended for this Mar 13 20:35:16 Venemo, VOIP would be one thing Mar 13 20:35:20 Emergency calls Mar 13 20:35:30 Venemo, i used different and they do work Mar 13 20:35:33 integration with contacts Mar 13 20:35:45 Emergency calls isn't that vital Mar 13 20:36:07 ZogG: okay then, I would tell you to check out my code about this... :) Mar 13 20:36:10 yeah, sure Mar 13 20:36:17 looking now Mar 13 20:36:28 I wonder why the flasher initrd kernel is 2.6.33 and the device is 2.6.28 :( Mar 13 20:36:31 ZogG: but basically, xmmsc_result_notifier_set_and_unref(res, on_playlist_pos_changed, NULL); ---> instead of NULL, give it the this pointer, and then use it to manipulate the instance. Mar 13 20:36:52 which pointer? Mar 13 20:36:55 ZogG: this Mar 13 20:37:19 don't get how to use it than Mar 13 20:37:27 wait looking thru your code Mar 13 20:38:03 ZogG: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/y0dddwwd%28v=VS.100%29.aspx Mar 13 20:38:52 msdn links on this channel? no wai Mar 13 20:39:22 hmm, I wonder if QML can be compiled in one binary with Qt apps Mar 13 20:39:51 slonopotamus: it's a good explanation on the C++ this pointer Mar 13 20:40:04 MohammadAG: achipa said yes it can be Mar 13 20:40:13 Venemo, so but if i do use my callback in the way you use xmms2connector Mar 13 20:40:37 Venemo, i just do not connect it Qt4 way but C way Mar 13 20:40:40 ZogG: best way to do this: send me your code, and I'll put it together in the right way Mar 13 20:40:59 Venemo, it's in the link i showed Mar 13 20:41:26 okay ZogG Mar 13 20:41:45 MohammadAG: QML, just like any other file can be embedded in resource files (-> binary) Mar 13 20:42:15 ah, as a resource Mar 13 20:42:17 cool, thanks Mar 13 20:43:05 achipa: how can it be actually compiled (not embedding the qml file, but compiling it to imperative code) -> is this even possible? Mar 13 20:44:09 ZogG: please delete the .pro.user file from git Mar 13 20:44:18 Venemo, why? Mar 13 20:44:43 ZogG: because it contains machine specific settings. My Qt Creator ends up deleting it Mar 13 20:45:35 delete it from git, then add it to .gitignore Mar 13 20:46:18 or just don't commit it Mar 13 20:46:28 goign to try cssu Mar 13 20:46:48 Venemo, ok Mar 13 20:46:55 Venemo, nah, always leaves a chance to have it in there Mar 13 20:47:06 actually, blacklisting all *.pro.* is better Mar 13 20:48:09 ZogG: your app hmm... well it gives me this: * xmmsc_io_out_handle was called without pending output * This is probably an error in the application using libxmmsclient Mar 13 20:48:51 ZogG: how can you tell that your callbacks are working correctly? Mar 13 20:49:25 ok now moving android to emmc :) cool ! everything works ! Mar 13 20:49:38 kpoman: even da fone? Mar 13 20:49:42 and I got a 8g /home now :) Mar 13 20:49:52 not the phone :p just repartitioned my /home to 8g Mar 13 20:50:05 and copy my gingerbread to that path Mar 13 20:50:17 seems it is much much faster on it Mar 13 20:51:26 who the hell wants to use horseshit like android instead of maemo? Mar 13 20:51:57 now editing the multiboot entry Mar 13 20:52:04 Venemo: it is just for the fun dude ! Mar 13 20:52:21 ZogG: which one is the callback that is supposed to change the label? Mar 13 20:52:26 kpoman: android is unfun Mar 13 20:53:49 mmm it is fun having a multiboot phone ! btw I will try meego too, and now easy debian will run better on its own partition Mar 13 20:54:25 Venemo: Apparently there are people out there who don't want to spend weeks hacking up their phone to get it to do what they want. Mar 13 20:54:30 Crazy I know. Mar 13 20:55:06 derf: well N900 does what I OOB Mar 13 20:55:13 derf: well N900 does what I want, OOB Mar 13 20:56:02 Venemo, i do not have callback for that i have one that calls on_playback_cur_track_changed as song is changed Mar 13 20:56:05 Maybe you are the one who's crazy. Mar 13 20:56:23 ZogG: so that is the one, okay Mar 13 20:56:36 derf: why am I crazy? Mar 13 20:57:01 omg what a crap movie Mar 13 20:58:08 Ok lets see if it is better now ! reboot the phone ! Mar 13 20:58:33 did it happen to anyone here when you have the homescreen selector then you switch to let's say #8 you can't open any shortcut menu on the desktop. Before this you have to scroll a bit the desktop and then it works... Mar 13 20:58:35 phap, which one? Mar 13 20:58:54 It's all about love (2003) I gave it up at half Mar 13 20:59:21 phap, i think i saw it Mar 13 20:59:49 A kind of SF movie full of nonsense Mar 13 21:07:36 hmmpf, seems we must pepare to see 4 core meltdowns at least, in Japan Mar 13 21:08:32 DocScrutinizer, it is an extremely bad sequence of events Mar 13 21:09:11 Core meltdowns alone aren't that bad. Mar 13 21:09:33 They are horrible to dissasemble - but they don't of themselves imply large radioactive release to the environment Mar 13 21:10:21 I honestly hope it won't result in Japan vanishing as a nation, and that the world will change due to re-evaluating value of fission power Mar 13 21:10:58 That's utter hyperbole. Even worst case accidents releasing all the cores wouldn't kill everyone. Mar 13 21:11:32 Dropping two nuclear bombs on the country didn't make Japan vanish as a nation. Mar 13 21:12:24 SpeedEvil: either you get that radioactive gue in groundwater, or you get an enormous steam and also hydrogen explosion sprading it all around and possibly even entering jetstream level Mar 13 21:14:36 contamination and evacuation of >50% of the area, plus no more electric power (which is dependent virtually exclusively on nuklear plants in Japan) wouldn't make the island vanish, but I doubt we'd call the result Japan anymore Mar 13 21:15:16 anyone ordered a new toyota? .. guess that order will be a bit delayed Mar 13 21:16:16 ZogG: 1) if you want to make an application like this, separate the UI from the actual program logic Mar 13 21:16:38 ZogG: 2) try to adopt and follow a coding style Mar 13 21:18:02 Venemo, what for did you use typedef struct xmmsv_St xmmsv_t; ? Mar 13 21:19:03 ZogG: because I did not want to include that ugly c header in my own header, therefore I typedeffed that for myself Mar 13 21:22:12 Venemo, what ugly header? Mar 13 21:22:38 ZogG: #include Mar 13 21:23:53 ZogG: read about the SoC principle Mar 13 21:24:35 damn i should learn before starting Mar 13 21:24:51 but let's try to understand it that way Mar 13 21:26:17 ZogG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_concerns Mar 13 21:26:22 ZogG: read that article Mar 13 21:38:55 ZogG: also, in a Qt app, use qDebug() instead of printf Mar 13 21:44:18 how do I check if an object was initialized? Mar 13 21:44:33 if (objectName) is always returning true Mar 13 21:45:08 MohammadAG: what do you mean by initialized? Mar 13 21:45:20 It's not a null object Mar 13 21:45:38 MohammadAG: well, initialize it to 0 at the beginning Mar 13 21:46:01 MohammadAG: or you can use a QPointer if the object is a QObject Mar 13 21:46:12 it is Mar 13 21:47:03 ok problems ! lol my nitdroid boots and tells me Guru meditation and segmentation fault errors. Mar 13 21:47:53 initializing it to 0 worked, thanks Veggen Mar 13 21:47:56 Venemo* Mar 13 21:48:00 sorry again Veggen :/ Mar 13 21:48:53 MohammadAG: is your irc client crap? Mar 13 21:49:18 no, n comes after g Mar 13 21:49:32 (no problem, Mohammed :) Mar 13 21:51:17 MohammadAG: umm. if I press M, mine autocompletes to the last nickname who wrote something and begins with M Mar 13 21:52:04 ah Mar 13 21:52:15 not sure if XChat does that Mar 13 21:54:15 MohammadAG: oh. so the answer to my question is yes Mar 13 21:54:40 Xchat does not do that, mIRC autocompletion is way better Mar 13 21:54:43 ZogG: okay, I managed to get your code up and running correctly Mar 13 21:54:50 actually mIRC is better in all aspects except it doesn't run on Linux Mar 13 21:54:53 I use Konversation, it is excellent Mar 13 21:55:13 Nokia-N900:~# du -h /root/mediaplayer.bc5c5b5a10377a360354ff2ab641c1dc Mar 13 21:55:14 12.5M /root/mediaplayer.bc5c5b5a10377a360354ff2ab641c1dc Mar 13 21:55:20 <3 debug builds Mar 13 21:55:42 lool Mar 13 21:57:13 Venemo, how? Mar 13 21:57:21 does QML use the SGX by default? Mar 13 21:57:31 I remember alterego talked about some OpenGL support Mar 13 21:58:11 Venemo, can you look up into the repo to see waht i did Mar 13 21:58:15 it doesn't compile Mar 13 21:58:24 but i used your style Mar 13 21:58:45 ZogG: I cloned your repo when you asked me and a minute ago I solved it. Mar 13 21:59:38 up the code please Mar 13 21:59:44 ZogG: I'm cleaning it up right now Mar 13 22:07:22 Venemo, sorry i got timeout Mar 13 22:07:35 1) can u up it Mar 13 22:08:00 2) can u check what i did wrong (rewritted it)] Mar 13 22:08:08 rewrote* Mar 13 22:11:50 oh dear Mar 13 22:11:51 qrc:/entertainmentview.qml:138:9: QML Image: Cannot open: qrc:/home/user/.cache/media-art/album-7215ee9c7d9dc229d2921a40e899ec5f-6125f3f0367e2f34fc2656b572605d7d.jpeg Mar 13 22:12:16 Venemo, found error Mar 13 22:13:37 ZogG_laptop: k Mar 13 22:13:57 Venemo, can u up ur version Mar 13 22:14:03 ZogG_laptop: yes, where? Mar 13 22:14:19 anywhere u can Mar 13 22:14:36 ZogG_laptop: ok Mar 13 22:16:49 hello folks Mar 13 22:17:46 is there a way to get an android app to work under maemo ? Mar 13 22:18:23 google for alien dalvik Mar 13 22:18:29 alien dalvik, unreleased Mar 13 22:18:59 ZogG_laptop: ok, uploading Mar 13 22:19:22 yeah i couldn’t find it any where Mar 13 22:19:35 ZogG_laptop: http://venemo.net/temp/fresh.zip Mar 13 22:20:30 ZogG_laptop: please upload this to git Mar 13 22:21:23 ZogG_laptop: short description: if you want to add an XMMS-related feature, then add it to Xmms2Connector, and then connect that to the GUI Mar 13 22:21:43 ZogG_laptop: NEVER, EVER add such code to the GUI layer - it just makes your code unreadable and hard to follow or debug Mar 13 22:22:14 u mean one i did now? Mar 13 22:22:47 ZogG_laptop: 'u'? Mar 13 22:23:04 i uploaded something new Mar 13 22:23:19 based on my code? Mar 13 22:24:10 ZogG_laptop: yes, I see you did something similar Mar 13 22:24:17 ZogG_laptop: now please, use my Xmms2Connector Mar 13 22:24:48 thank you guys for the file Mar 13 22:24:55 ZogG_laptop: it sends proper Qt signals and does a lot of other things :) Mar 13 22:25:15 but one more thing.. is it a Qt application ? Mar 13 22:25:16 Venemo, does it make coffee? Mar 13 22:25:24 ZogG_laptop: of course Mar 13 22:25:58 Venemo, i did it based on your old files Mar 13 22:26:05 so i'm learning a little bit Mar 13 22:26:10 ZogG_laptop: re-base on my new ones Mar 13 22:26:24 and do i need Qt installed in order to launch it ? Mar 13 22:26:40 ok i'll so it tomorrow, anyway noone follows my repo now =) Mar 13 22:26:58 ZogG_laptop: do it now Mar 13 22:27:02 haha Mar 13 22:27:08 why so hurry Mar 13 22:27:16 Guru Meditation: XID: 1281492756 Mar 13 22:27:19 i just wanted to read it first properly Mar 13 22:27:22 * MohammadAG sighs at gitorious Mar 13 22:27:22 ZogG_laptop: well, _I_ hurried for you. :P Mar 13 22:27:26 ok Mar 13 22:27:29 i'll do Mar 13 22:27:32 i'll do Mar 13 22:27:43 ezisto, u better not use it for now Mar 13 22:28:52 ZogG_laptop: also, it can now refresh your label and everything Mar 13 22:29:17 ZogG_laptop: look at the code of the callbacks if you want to know how :) Mar 13 22:29:57 ZogG_laptop: also, NEVER use global variables for such a purpose as you did Mar 13 22:30:58 Can the n810 use some form of external wireless dongle? My n810 reboots whenever the wlan is used (ie. when the connection manager scans for networks) Mar 13 22:31:21 Zero_Dogg: try a reflash Mar 13 22:31:37 okay thank you anyway Mar 13 22:31:49 Venemo: done that, several times. Doesn't change anything Mar 13 22:32:15 Zero_Dogg: well then either take it to the repair centre or find a dongle that it can support with its host mode :) Mar 13 22:32:34 Venemo, i almost was there, just needed to add this instead of NULL and i didn't know how to declare static functions in *.h now i know Mar 13 22:32:51 Venemo, backed up mine so i can see the differences Mar 13 22:32:59 ZogG_laptop: ok, don't worry :) Mar 13 22:33:11 Writing objects: 100% (8/8), 1.76 KiB, done. Mar 13 22:33:11 Total 8 (delta 6), reused 0 (delta 0) Mar 13 22:33:13 Venemo: nod, warranty on it is up, so could probably buy a used one for less than the repairs would cost. I do have Linux compatible usb dongles, but I'm guessing the n810's kernel probably doesn't ship with the modules Mar 13 22:33:28 Venemo, actually i tryed it before like that when it was in one file Mar 13 22:33:46 ZogG_laptop: the this pointer is then passed to the user_data of the callbacks, so you can access an instance of the object from there Mar 13 22:34:03 ZogG_laptop: then it emits a signal which is picked up by the slot at the main window Mar 13 22:34:12 ZogG_laptop: and in that slot, I change the text of the label Mar 13 22:34:54 ZogG_laptop: and note that those are static functions of a class, and not just static functions Mar 13 22:35:11 ZogG_laptop: this means that they can access the private members of the class Mar 13 22:35:30 ZogG_laptop: I also recommend you to learn some OOP and C++ :) Mar 13 22:36:28 but this NULL and static thing ruined it as i declared those functions under private slots and got error with xmmsc_result_notifier_set Mar 13 22:36:37 Venemo, but i need to change ur code now too Mar 13 22:36:45 ZogG_laptop: what do you need in it? Mar 13 22:36:49 Venemo, as u still used asynced method Mar 13 22:37:15 ZogG_laptop: ok, feel free to change it. :) Mar 13 22:37:23 i need to polish the way u get info and change xmmsc_result_wait Mar 13 22:37:51 now i need to sleep as i woke up in 5 hours and still didn't took shower Mar 13 22:38:00 thanks man Mar 13 22:38:11 ZogG_laptop, okay. if you have a problem or question, just ask :) Mar 13 22:38:53 Venemo, when and if i'll finish kinda useable version 0.0.0.0.0.1-alpha i would need help to make widget (it would be easier just relaying on existing code of program) Mar 13 22:39:04 ZogG_laptop: what widget? Mar 13 22:39:05 and again man, many many thanks Mar 13 22:40:05 ZogG_laptop: you're welcome :) Mar 13 22:40:30 Venemo, a lt of things i just learn from how u did it Mar 13 22:40:48 ZogG_laptop: I'm happy for you :) Mar 13 22:40:57 i mean there are things i dunno how to do or that i can do, and than i see the solution and i do understand for next time Mar 13 22:41:08 but still i'm slow learner =( Mar 13 22:41:20 ZogG_laptop: no problem. I had lots of trouble when I learned C++ Mar 13 22:41:31 wow, surprised to know batteries "bigger than original" capacity do exist, i thought all of those are fake Mar 13 22:41:46 ZogG_laptop: also, I had lots of trouble some time later when I learned Qt Mar 13 22:41:49 they are bigger in all meanings Mar 13 22:42:01 ZogG_laptop: so if I can help others to suffer less than I did, I'm happy :) Mar 13 22:42:02 i know a little bit C and no Qt Mar 13 22:42:07 Arkenoi: which one is not fake? Mar 13 22:42:10 ZogG_laptop: no problem Mar 13 22:42:19 [23:33] ZogG_laptop: I also recommend you to learn some OOP and C++ :) Mar 13 22:42:44 i have friend he is just getting it from code, he even doesn't need to read manuals sometimes Mar 13 22:42:48 he is quicklearner Mar 13 22:42:56 but he never share even his programs Mar 13 22:43:05 he just doesn't care Mar 13 22:43:16 ZogG_laptop: my father once said, the more you learn, the faster you can learn :) Mar 13 22:43:23 venemo: "scud" from aliexpress, said to be 1510 (even more than claimed 1450) Mar 13 22:43:25 but he is more like python+gtk+c guy Mar 13 22:43:36 err, claimed 1420 Mar 13 22:43:51 Venemo, do u know java? Mar 13 22:43:53 there is thread on tmo Mar 13 22:44:16 ZogG_laptop: java? NO! I only know a single joke about java Mar 13 22:44:25 Arkenoi: link please? Mar 13 22:44:36 bad, found pretty program for android Mar 13 22:44:42 ZogG_laptop: why do all java programmers wear glasses? Mar 13 22:44:43 it is based on C program Mar 13 22:44:51 Venemo, dunnp Mar 13 22:44:57 ZogG_laptop: because they don't C#! Mar 13 22:45:02 hahah Mar 13 22:45:19 ZogG_laptop: as in C# [see sharp] Mar 13 22:45:38 ZogG_laptop: I'm a C# / .NET developer too. or rather, I was before I started with Qt :) Mar 13 22:46:18 aso this program is based on program on C that is ported to maemo it can be built with qt4 or qpe or gpe or gtk and android uses it just to make more userfriendly gui Mar 13 22:46:18 MohammadAG: we were talking about wrapper classes earlier, remember? Mar 13 22:46:30 MohammadAG: the Xmms2Connector class I wrote for ZogG_laptop is a good example of a wrapper Mar 13 22:46:34 Venemo, yeah i got it Mar 13 22:46:45 ZogG_laptop: okay then :) Mar 13 22:46:58 Venemo, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65568 Mar 13 22:47:02 thx Arkenoi Mar 13 22:47:03 anyway CYA Mar 13 22:47:07 gnight Mar 13 22:47:11 bb ZogG_laptop, sleep well Mar 13 22:47:24 Venemo, I wrote MafwPlaylistAdapter :) Mar 13 22:47:47 MohammadAG: :):):) Mar 13 22:47:59 time to order new battery anyways, mine is one year old Mar 13 22:48:14 Arkenoi: please do tell me if it's really any better than the original one Mar 13 22:48:30 yep, i really hope so :-) Mar 13 22:48:45 is it bigger? Mar 13 22:48:47 i mean size Mar 13 22:48:58 nope, the size is similar Mar 13 22:49:03 good Mar 13 22:49:19 Arkenoi, so it fits into the N900 without adding more bulkiness? that's good Mar 13 22:49:22 and it's 1510 when original is ... Mar 13 22:49:36 ? Mar 13 22:50:23 1350 Mar 13 22:50:34 not bad Mar 13 22:50:50 +- more 4-6 hours on regular usage i assume Mar 13 22:50:51 the original is not 1350 Mar 13 22:51:31 Venemo, than original is ? Mar 13 22:53:43 ZogG_laptop: mine is 1320 Mar 13 22:54:47 ah, maybe 1320 Mar 13 22:55:26 anyways, 1510 means a few extra hours you may need so desperately sometimes Mar 13 22:56:59 yeah :) Mar 13 22:57:30 Arkenoi: A bigger battery? Where? Mar 13 22:57:48 lolcat, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65568 Mar 13 22:58:01 23:40 <@arcade> Ymgve: Forøvrig, jeg ville tatt Nils Bøhmer i bellone med fem klyper salt. Ikke at det han sier er galt, men det er litt .. opphausset. Mar 13 22:58:07 sorry Mar 13 22:58:15 Accidental paste Mar 13 22:58:25 good evening :-) Mar 13 22:58:34 good evening strunz Mar 13 22:59:08 i`ve a question about n900 and maemo Mar 13 23:01:21 when i start sygic mm10 it crashes on n900 Mar 13 23:02:19 yeah Mar 13 23:02:33 because you've got pirated version Mar 13 23:03:13 no, i bought it from a distributor Mar 13 23:04:04 http://direkt.jacob-computer.de/_artnr_756468.html?status=1&SID= Mar 13 23:09:38 Venemo: could you please tell me how to run that fresh on n900, i will be thankful if you show me how :) Mar 13 23:11:24 http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/367257966-Lithium-ion-battery-Nokia-BL-5J-for-5230-5800XM-5233-N900-1420mAh-Free-Shipping-by-EMS-wholesalers.html Mar 13 23:11:37 This is it? I have to buy three of them? Mar 13 23:13:42 i'd take one :) Mar 13 23:14:05 I should order 1000, then they are sick cheap Mar 13 23:14:27 Then I just need a charger Mar 13 23:14:42 If I have 4 batteries it is ez to replace them while doing stuff Mar 13 23:16:21 where are you that it is hard to get replacement batteries? ... i can just pick one up at the next mobile shop here Mar 13 23:16:51 cehteh: I wanted the one with 1500mAH Mar 13 23:17:07 My phone is @ Nokia for repair of the USB port I think Mar 13 23:17:12 well .. me too .. but ... its just a sticker :) Mar 13 23:17:15 I can sell you one marked as 2500mAh Mar 13 23:17:23 hehe Mar 13 23:17:55 anyone of you has the equipment to reliable measure battery charge? DocScrutinizer dont you have an electronics lab? Mar 13 23:18:11 cehteh: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65568 Mar 13 23:18:35 cehteh: rudimentary Mar 13 23:18:42 ah nice Mar 13 23:18:52 cehteh: how do you define battery charge Mar 13 23:19:31 amount of energy you can pull from battery before it cannot be recharged back to like 95% of previous capacity Mar 13 23:19:49 cehteh: why? Mar 13 23:19:50 jacekowski: mAh or mWh ... there are ways to measure it Mar 13 23:19:51 n8 Mar 13 23:19:54 or amount of energy you can pull from battery before device it's powering shuts down on low voltage Mar 13 23:20:02 yes Mar 13 23:20:20 cehteh: but mAh or mWh don't tell you when you stop your measurments Mar 13 23:20:22 well if you want you can measure the joules ... but thats a bit inconvinent Mar 13 23:20:38 jacekowski: well within design limits of the device Mar 13 23:21:02 when you know that it shuts down at 3.2 volts then you just programm your testing equiment the same way Mar 13 23:21:13 at what current? Mar 13 23:22:04 whatever .. some 'typical' for the device .. the current you draw isnt really much critical Mar 13 23:22:24 it is Mar 13 23:22:33 battery capacity changes with current you pull Mar 13 23:22:40 less current you pull more energy you can get Mar 13 23:22:43 not that much Mar 13 23:22:47 not with liion Mar 13 23:22:50 BS Mar 13 23:23:10 well i am not talking about shorten it Mar 13 23:23:24 if you have 1Ah liiion and pull 1A from it and pull 100mA from it Mar 13 23:23:33 you will get like 50% more from it at 100mA Mar 13 23:23:49 heh .. source? Mar 13 23:24:07 my own measurments Mar 13 23:24:21 1A on a phone battery is quite much anyways Mar 13 23:24:45 it's not Mar 13 23:24:50 N900 pulls like 2A peak Mar 13 23:25:01 if you pull 100mA vs 250mA then you wont see much difference Mar 13 23:25:07 peak yes .. for short times Mar 13 23:25:16 not for 1hr :) Mar 13 23:25:16 1A when playing games Mar 13 23:25:32 if you use mobile hot spot Mar 13 23:25:43 anyways .. i am about comparing batteries with each other .. Mar 13 23:25:48 everything is getting warm Mar 13 23:26:02 and it discharges my battery in like 40-50 minutes Mar 13 23:26:14 which is about right for almost 2A Mar 13 23:26:47 I think I will order three scud batteries with 1510mAh Mar 13 23:28:38 ezisto, well, I haven't tried Mar 13 23:28:55 ezisto, but, since you don't have xmms2 on your N900, you probably won't be able to use it Mar 13 23:40:26 a 50% power loss at 1A sounds like the battery has an internal resistance of 3-4 ohms... Mar 13 23:41:38 yeah, Mar 13 23:41:44 try that on used battery Mar 13 23:41:46 not fresh one Mar 13 23:49:22 3-4 ohms sounds excessive Mar 13 23:50:02 BL-5J should be closer to .1 Mar 14 00:00:01 fresh one Mar 14 00:00:17 use it for couple months and it will be around 1 Mar 14 00:01:02 The modem 'hard' powers off at around 3.2V IIRC Mar 14 00:01:21 It needs to be able to draw nearly 2A and stay above this. Mar 14 00:01:33 To supply pulses. Mar 14 00:01:47 hey, still with batteries? Mar 14 00:01:54 hm, mine stops working at around 3v Mar 14 00:02:07 ShadowJK: yeah - around - I'm unsure of exact. Mar 14 00:02:57 * ShadowJK doesn't have any couple months old batteries anymore Mar 14 00:03:43 but I'm pretty sure my 11 month one was <1 ohm Mar 14 00:03:53 the mugen2400 was disturbingly high internal resistance :/ Mar 14 00:04:56 after 50 cycles or so Mar 14 00:05:00 anyway, 3-4Ohm, 2A, in my book that's 8V drop Mar 14 00:05:12 see how silly that looks? Mar 14 00:05:22 on an n900 can I disable the long presses entering the alternate symbol? Mar 14 00:05:50 * ShadowJK only has 50 cycles on this BL-5J Mar 14 00:05:50 and 3 reboots on this N900 :P Mar 14 00:08:27 bme on N800 used a battery model with .16 ohm resistance, on N810 that parameter was .180 Mar 14 00:08:56 in both cases my original batteries for them developed much higher resistance than that and became pregnant.. Mar 14 00:10:56 nae: yes Mar 14 00:11:49 nae: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Mar 14 00:11:59 some gconf setting Mar 14 00:14:07 cehteh: you know you get best results on least effort with bq27200.sh script? Mar 14 00:15:32 just make sure to change RS=30 to RS=22 whenever you get this script somewhere Mar 14 00:17:10 ShadowJK: sounds about right - it mustn't be much more than 200mR for modem to work correctly Mar 14 00:18:08 * ShadowJK uses RS=21 Mar 14 00:18:25 on too high a impedance of battery you get those mysterious GSM connectivity drops Mar 14 00:19:25 would anyone be interested in buying a n900 with an usb port that came off? Mar 14 00:19:41 sure. 20 bucks Mar 14 00:20:08 meh, 30 Mar 14 00:21:27 50 + shipping Mar 14 00:21:49 $ or eur? Mar 14 00:21:59 GBP?? :-o Mar 14 00:22:03 on n900 you get the pin code prompt after cellmo undervoltage reboot Mar 14 00:22:05 DocScrutinizer: thanks for the link Mar 14 00:22:42 ShadowJK: brownouts on TX spikes won't trigger POR Mar 14 00:23:08 just ruin the TX parameters, so the BTS will barf up Mar 14 00:23:11 hey is there usb pads below the battery? Mar 14 00:23:22 USD Mar 14 00:23:25 * DocScrutinizer stares at his bare board Mar 14 00:23:45 umm, shipping from US is too expensive Mar 14 00:23:54 i live in canada Mar 14 00:23:59 where do you live Mar 14 00:24:03 D Mar 14 00:24:10 D? Mar 14 00:24:19 teutschlant Mar 14 00:24:24 oh Mar 14 00:27:00 I'd actually be willing to pay $50, but the hassle with sending and customs and all is too much Mar 14 00:27:44 i could get it mailed for maybe $10-20 Mar 14 00:27:47 using regular mail Mar 14 00:27:53 i mailed stuff to europe before Mar 14 00:27:55 packages Mar 14 00:28:56 60$ incl postage, on your risk, payment when it arrives, via paypal Mar 14 00:29:14 sorry, can't go better Mar 14 00:31:37 I won't run away with it, I have some IRC channels to mamage ;-P Mar 14 00:31:50 manage even Mar 14 00:34:42 how many coremelts? I missed the news for 3 hours Mar 14 00:35:24 marshmellows glowing in the dark yet? ;) Mar 14 00:36:25 I got my fair share of atomic waste on my keyring Mar 14 00:36:30 * n900evil sings 'Just one coremelto' Mar 14 00:37:35 oh my Mar 14 00:37:46 they're pouring seawater into two cores now Mar 14 00:37:59 and "considering using seawater on a third" Mar 14 00:38:52 cool, hope they got a plug to pull and drain the second one when the first goes BOOOOOOOOOOOOM when 70 tons of 2000°C whiteglowing molten gue hit the seawater Mar 14 00:38:56 pumping large amounts of water in means that they've now accepted that it's all going to come back out as radioactive steam, right? Mar 14 00:39:43 fill it with lead Mar 14 00:39:45 and since at least one core is almost certainly disintegrating, that's proper radioactive steam, not boring nitrogen from neutron-activated water Mar 14 00:39:46 lead shot Mar 14 00:39:58 lead shot doesn't help at all Mar 14 00:39:59 ^radionitrogen Mar 14 00:40:11 why not? lead show block the neutrons Mar 14 00:40:19 and since it is hot, it'll melt and encase the rods Mar 14 00:40:33 what's the specific latent heat of fusion of lead like? Mar 14 00:40:44 not as nice as water I am sure Mar 14 00:40:50 very little is Mar 14 00:40:58 also, they probably don't have piles of lead to hand Mar 14 00:41:00 but I suspect it will absorb more neutrons Mar 14 00:41:02 they don't even have fresh water Mar 14 00:41:22 raid the armory, use bullets (have the solders take out the power/brass first) Mar 14 00:41:26 ds3: aiui that's what the boratic acid is meant for Mar 14 00:41:31 pumping seawater into the reactor is an act of desperation in the first place Mar 14 00:41:53 DocScrutinizer: yes but isn't lead suppose to be one of the decay products? Mar 14 00:42:19 it is really, REALLY annoying when people talk about "radioactivity" as if it is a substance Mar 14 00:43:12 second hydrogen explosion hasn't happened yet, but they still think it's going to happen Mar 14 00:43:22 it's even more stupid when they talk about radiation contamination all the time Mar 14 00:43:36 or "radiation leaking" Mar 14 00:43:52 10:1 on next explosion in <48h Mar 14 00:44:00 when they actually mean stuff that emits radiation has leaked Mar 14 00:44:07 i wish they'd say what exactly had leaked when they say things like that Mar 14 00:44:08 isn't a radiation leak basically neutrons/alpha/beta/gamma flying out? Mar 14 00:44:17 BCMM: exactly Mar 14 00:44:26 i mean, the radioactive steam, per se, isn't a huge deal Mar 14 00:44:56 pfff, radioactive H2O? so what? Mar 14 00:44:59 what exactly is radioactive steam? heavy water steam? Mar 14 00:45:00 it shouldn't be that radioactive; just short-lived stuff formed by neutron activation of the water Mar 14 00:45:33 * DocScrutinizer yawns Mar 14 00:45:40 sorry Mar 14 00:45:44 it shouldn't contain bits of the fuel rods Mar 14 00:45:51 but if they've been feeding iodine to people exposed to it, that implies it does Mar 14 00:45:59 or that somebody doesn't know what iodine supplements are for Mar 14 00:46:26 It is only 'clean' if the fuel rods are intact. Mar 14 00:46:36 Iodine could have vaporized Mar 14 00:46:45 doesn't that stuff sublimes? Mar 14 00:46:53 seawater OTOH is full of 'nice' minerals Mar 14 00:47:01 BCMM: Or if there is the possibility of leaks - you want people to have iodine beforehand. Mar 14 00:47:06 that's sorta my point, if there is iodine in it, the rods are disintegrating Mar 14 00:47:17 caesium Mar 14 00:47:23 iodine Mar 14 00:47:36 all sure signs of a coremelt Mar 14 00:48:13 i don't know how you make radioisotopes of caesium Mar 14 00:48:14 There will presumably nominally be some diffusion out of the rods. Mar 14 00:48:22 also hydrogen explosions, as H2O desintegrates into hydrogen and O2 at some 1000s of °C Mar 14 00:48:37 which of course means the rods are gue Mar 14 00:48:41 but radioiodine tends to come from uranium Mar 14 00:48:45 and definitely not from water Mar 14 00:49:22 yeah, the rods are goo Mar 14 00:49:35 it would be ironic if the wind blew the fallout over the USA Mar 14 00:49:45 err did I say caesium? Mar 14 00:49:47 the pacific is bigger than it looks Mar 14 00:49:50 'oops! so sorry!' Mar 14 00:49:58 DocScrutinizer: yeah, but so did the news Mar 14 00:50:02 I would be surprised if the rods remain completely gastight under conditions of neutron activation, and elevated temperature. In normal use, I'd expect the primary coolant loop to have a fair amount of contamination from activated gasses Mar 14 00:50:09 I'm dizzy Mar 14 00:50:37 if the rods are not intact, this seawater is basically washing over the nuclear fuel, right? Mar 14 00:50:50 yes Mar 14 00:50:51 (i know the principles, but not how the plant is actually put together) Mar 14 00:51:18 and this stuff is boiling off all the time... i wonder how much contamination the process of avoiding a full meltdown is producing Mar 14 00:51:37 ds3: they should throw in natrium or a similar metal Mar 14 00:51:41 do they feed it into the core? .. or just into the containment? iirc there was no information about Mar 14 00:51:49 don't we have funky satellites that can take snapshots of radiation? Mar 14 00:52:03 preferrably sth that doesn't incinerate Mar 14 00:52:24 why doesn't Google *do* something! Mar 14 00:52:46 google earth live! Mar 14 00:52:47 pupnik: nope, sats can't see radiation Mar 14 00:53:13 sure they can, but they might not be pointed at the planet Mar 14 00:53:21 at least not that one on earth surface Mar 14 00:53:23 the gamma ray observatory Mar 14 00:54:04 when voyager 1 picks up neutron emission from earth we should be considerably scared :) Mar 14 00:54:22 on the bright side, Onagawa appears to be intact... that's the one that caught fire, followed by elevated radiation readings Mar 14 00:54:48 apparently said readings were just contamination from Fukushima I Mar 14 00:55:00 they say a lot these days ... Mar 14 00:55:43 * cehteh thinks it will take some months or even years to find about the whole truth Mar 14 00:55:58 cehteh: i'm pretty sure the sun would swamp that signal Mar 14 00:56:09 (which might be not that spectacular when we are lucky) Mar 14 00:56:35 but remember three miles island .. it took years before they realized that the core melt down Mar 14 00:57:04 prolly the now know better, but there is a lot to investigate what really happend still Mar 14 00:57:27 let's send the 9/11 commission to investigate Mar 14 01:01:07 even if it did melt, isn't there less stuff in there then both of the A bombs? Mar 14 01:01:18 haha its all a evil plot of Osama Bin Laden! Mar 14 01:01:44 ds3: you cant compare an atomic plant with atomic bombs Mar 14 01:02:06 it's common practice worldwide, and esp in nuke powerplant dependant Japan, for gvmt to only semi-admit facts that aren't possible to deny anymore Mar 14 01:02:12 the plant may contain more mass .. more dirty but not critical since less enriched Mar 14 01:02:38 ds3: less stuff??? that's TONs! Mar 14 01:02:40 and more fission byproducts and other crap Mar 14 01:03:40 DocScrutinizer: such as the possibility that the cores might be starting to disintegrate, after decay products obviously originating from the fuel have already been detected and people are already being dosed with iodine Mar 14 01:03:45 just saying, it has happened before Mar 14 01:03:48 ^such as admitting the Mar 14 01:04:11 ds3: and due to the fact Fukushima rods were used and old, the percentage of isotopes like iodne etc is probably 20 times higer / kg than in Chernobyl Mar 14 01:04:18 BCMM: yes .. and the hydrogen explosion meant that hydrogen was produced which isnt at all good Mar 14 01:04:48 means the fuel-rods detoriating which is a good sign for meltdown Mar 14 01:05:00 DocScrutinizer: all in all, the half life of iodine is short enough that it isn't that horrible Mar 14 01:05:11 take plenty of KI til it all breaks down Mar 14 01:05:12 there is plutonium in block 3 Mar 14 01:05:30 if that gets released then they have a really big problem Mar 14 01:06:29 well, the Pu spilled all across on Nagasaki was for sure worse Mar 14 01:06:34 http://maps.google.com/maps?ftr=crisisresponse.kmlpanel:src=japan_earthquake_2011&cad=japan_earthquake_2011 has maps showing areas of evacuation Mar 14 01:06:46 but they don't seem to have a meaningful legend Mar 14 01:07:25 it does at least confirm that fukushima II has it's own evacuation zone Mar 14 01:07:52 it has, since yesterday Mar 14 01:08:13 well, make that now-30h Mar 14 01:08:59 about as long as I'm posting here about ~5 coremelts pending Mar 14 01:09:45 for all info available that'S the minimum of blasts to happen if they don't find a better strategy Mar 14 01:10:27 robability for a 6th one high Mar 14 01:10:35 +p Mar 14 01:12:07 if only one of 6 gets a 'proper' core meltdown with china syndrome, they are on the lucky side Mar 14 01:14:02 i take it "china syndrome" refers to the melt burning through the floor and getting into the groundwater? Mar 14 01:14:15 yep Mar 14 01:15:35 i predict japan's next nuclear reactors get built differently Mar 14 01:15:49 probably bonbing it to pieces would be the better alternative Mar 14 01:16:11 DocScrutinizer: You're missing something. Mar 14 01:16:25 DocScrutinizer: As time after shutdown increases, decay heat decreases. Mar 14 01:16:49 yeah, in 12 moths it's only 5MW instead of 10 Mar 14 01:17:12 At some point, decay heat will be passively coolable. I don't know when that point is of course. Mar 14 01:17:50 I vaguely recall 10% being stated as decay heat output an hour after SCRAM. Mar 14 01:17:57 So ~50MW Mar 14 01:17:58 DocScrutinizer: but that also guarantees a complete release into the environment Mar 14 01:18:03 I didn't completely wrap my head around it, but I think I heard it's the decay products that continue to "tick" even when subcritical Mar 14 01:18:54 that's why a reactor doesn't stop the very moment you pull the moderator rods out Mar 14 01:19:09 or in, depending on build Mar 14 01:19:14 it's all unstable atom; they decay no matter what you do to them Mar 14 01:19:26 ^atoms Mar 14 01:19:53 i mean, move them far far away from any other unstable nuclei and they'll still spontaneously decay Mar 14 01:19:59 When normally operating, the chain reaction neutron cause massive generation of unstable radioisotopes with decay times from picoseconds to years. Mar 14 01:20:17 you just won't get any chain reactions where a fast neutron from one decay triggers another one Mar 14 01:20:27 swapped fuel rods need to chill for iirc 2 years next to reactor in a pool, prior to shipping them anywhere Mar 14 01:20:32 These decay over time when you turnthe reactor off, as there are 'no' neutrons. Mar 14 01:21:18 But you've got a whole heap of exponential curves piled on top of each other. Mar 14 01:21:36 yes exactly Mar 14 01:21:40 it's possible to have a perfectly safe (from blowing up or doing anything surprising) lump of plutonium that just sits there and is warm to the touch Mar 14 01:21:46 It starts at the nominal power, and then decays from there. Mar 14 01:21:55 Yep. Mar 14 01:22:00 RTG. Mar 14 01:22:08 (allegedly, this was verified in the Manhattan project. by actually touching it.) Mar 14 01:22:11 SpeedEvil: and decay of one isotop creates another one :-P Mar 14 01:22:50 DocScrutinizer: Decay chains, yes, it's more complex than a simple exponential due to this. Mar 14 01:23:10 that's my point Mar 14 01:24:05 the chain-reaction itself is somewhat self-sustaining Mar 14 01:24:31 anyway, even a shutdown reactor needs cooling for months, if not years. Or you see core meltdown Mar 14 01:24:43 http://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/03/13/some-perspective-on-the-japan-earthquake/ Mar 14 01:24:52 True - of course - but cooling may be passive too. Mar 14 01:25:10 AFAIK, since inserting the control rods doesn't come close to totally isolating each U atom from each other U atom, the rate of fission tails off quite gradually Mar 14 01:25:23 I'd be surprised if it was engineered to require passive cooling after shut off for a month, for example. Mar 14 01:25:38 SpeedEvil: sure - if the heatsink is of enormeous size ;-P Mar 14 01:25:54 it puts it in a state where it's basically self-limiting and each neutron is causing an average of less than one other neutron to be emitted Mar 14 01:26:07 but it takes a long time to reach equilibrium Mar 14 01:26:13 and you put in enough heat conducting paste Mar 14 01:26:33 haha Mar 14 01:26:42 and the challenge is keeping it cool while that happens Mar 14 01:27:05 cause obviously if everything melts the control rods become kinda academic Mar 14 01:27:43 BCMM: nope, all those processes happen at speed of light Mar 14 01:27:49 I.E. in zero time Mar 14 01:28:00 neutrons can not travel at the speed of light... Mar 14 01:28:13 the difference is negligible Mar 14 01:28:14 (and gamma rays cannot trigger decay) Mar 14 01:28:53 if it would take time to stop the process, it also would take time to start it -> nukes impossible Mar 14 01:28:55 DocScrutinizer: Wrong. Mar 14 01:29:08 DocScrutinizer: thermal electrons are _verry_ far from the speed of light Mar 14 01:29:27 A few tens or hundreds of meters/second IIRC Mar 14 01:29:31 SpeedEvil: not like taking weeks to settle Mar 14 01:29:40 not even milliseconds Mar 14 01:30:10 btw fission is rather unrelated to electrons Mar 14 01:30:14 where the thermal electrons come into things? Mar 14 01:30:18 ^do Mar 14 01:31:01 the term is not interchangeable with "beta particle" Mar 14 01:31:12 (or "neutron" for that matter) Mar 14 01:31:27 and beta particles also are unrelated to chain reaction buildup Mar 14 01:31:34 ok guys I got gingerbread working, and with overclocking it is excellent Mar 14 01:31:37 lot of games Mar 14 01:31:38 neutrons that's it Mar 14 01:31:45 very smooth Mar 14 01:31:51 very good battery life Mar 14 01:31:56 quite impressive in fact Mar 14 01:32:11 beta particles - what a nonsense Mar 14 01:32:22 beta quants maybe Mar 14 01:32:40 ? Mar 14 01:32:59 an electron is a particle? Mar 14 01:33:03 7% of reactor output is decay heat (according to docs I found), and typically it takes a day to decrease to 1% of nominal. Mar 14 01:33:17 strange .. with 2.6.38* my rxvt behaves very freaky ... Mar 14 01:33:27 ok, so the chain reaction does not take much time to shut off Mar 14 01:33:38 canteach.candu.org/library/19930201.pdf pager 256 Mar 14 01:33:44 but the isotopes do Mar 14 01:34:09 and xterm too wtf Mar 14 01:34:14 as lots of them have halflife of minutes, hours, days Mar 14 01:34:22 without chain reaction Mar 14 01:34:49 See also teh graph on page 253 Mar 14 01:35:10 so the slow shut-off is caused by short half-life neutron emitters triggering chain reactions? Mar 14 01:36:10 yeah, something along that line Mar 14 01:36:28 The source above gives neutron-based thermal generation hitting 1% at about 40s for the reactor type. Mar 14 01:37:59 my TV nukes expert gave power emission of a shutdown core of the Fukujima type as 10MW, for several weeks to months Mar 14 01:39:16 which is kinda of in line with what I know about handling of used fuel rods Mar 14 01:39:49 buzzword Abklingbecken, Castor Mar 14 01:39:52 I can't find a nice soruce on BWRr Mar 14 01:52:11 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD7r3RgTHr0 some nuclear reactor background for a video i helped did back in 97.. Good Nukes-- "Almost Good Enough": Pt. I Reactor Components Mar 14 01:52:39 overuse of music by pupnik Mar 14 02:02:01 Get your popcorn! http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-architecture/2011-March/000076.html Mar 14 02:12:11 wait, wait, it's working... Mar 14 02:18:01 GeneralAntilles: They're rearranging deck chairs on The Titanic. Mar 14 02:23:38 chx: its important to have a first-row seat on the sinking! Mar 14 02:23:54 imagine you cant see the iceberg Mar 14 02:32:00 chx: something like that, yeah. . . . Mar 14 02:34:20 what happened to "real men ship" ? Mar 14 02:35:39 The ship's been going down for years, just that most of you haven't realized it. Mar 14 02:35:47 hey, i wanted to flash my n900 because it doesnt start anymore. I just see the Nokia screen, and then it turns off. After plugging my N900 into my pc and running the flasher, it stays on "Suitable USB device not found, waiting." Also, the phone reboots every 10 seconds. Does someone have an Idea? Mar 14 02:36:17 I'm on Windows 7 x86. Using arch' doesn't work too Mar 14 02:36:30 And, I don't know about anyone else, but Arjan's just... such an ass. Mar 14 02:39:31 He's nice in person. Mar 14 02:39:37 Probably a bit frustrated, though. Mar 14 02:39:47 zerojay: yeah, but what's my alternative? Mar 14 02:39:49 Android aint it. :) Mar 14 02:40:26 With that guy around, even WinMo is an option. Mar 14 02:40:36 Meh Mar 14 02:40:55 He's really good at driving passionate people away. Mar 14 02:42:16 Intel doesn't know how to deal with a community of individuals. Mar 14 02:42:24 That's the strength Nokia (sort of) brought to the table. Mar 14 02:42:31 But they've been tucked away with Harmattan. Mar 14 02:45:19 arjan is more used to dealing with large group of kernel hackers I think :) Mar 14 02:46:58 I don't think Arjan's used to dealing with anyone but himself. Mar 14 02:52:34 fuck microsoft and fuck nokia. Mar 14 02:53:34 Indeed. Mar 14 02:54:01 well put Mar 14 02:54:07 my N900's camera gives operation failed when i open the slider.. any suggestions? Mar 14 02:54:31 Restart? Mar 14 02:54:33 forum threads indicate it needs a fsck? Mar 14 02:54:37 nah, done that Mar 14 02:56:04 Please, guys, any help here? enable-rd-mode doesn't help too Mar 14 02:56:05 : / Mar 14 02:56:28 Tsuyo: did you hold down the U key while inserting the battery with USB plugged in? Mar 14 02:57:30 http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/77583.html :( Mar 14 02:57:32 GeneralAntilles: I tried it now, and doesn't change anything Mar 14 02:57:53 Tsuyo: so, no USB icon in the corner on the N900? Mar 14 02:58:00 And you're sure the USB cable isn't at fault? Mar 14 02:58:12 Well, there is one. I don't flash for my first time :p Mar 14 02:58:22 My brother had the nice idea to dpkg -r -a Mar 14 02:58:31 nox-: it's not major. Similar to explosion the other day. Data coming from the reactors says so far it shouldn't be a big problem. Mar 14 02:58:32 So, the N900 is going into flashing mode, but the flasher isn't seeing it? Mar 14 02:58:41 2. Mar 14 02:58:46 It finds the phone Mar 14 02:58:49 but it freezes at: Mar 14 02:58:58 Suitable USB device not found .. Mar 14 02:59:06 The phone keeps rebooting Mar 14 02:59:28 i hear the vibrate ever ~10 secs Mar 14 02:59:31 y* Mar 14 02:59:43 flat battery? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Mar 14 02:59:57 2011