**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Mar 16 02:59:57 2011 Mar 16 04:42:50 Alien Dalvik, like the rest of Myriad’s portfolio, is sold directly to operators and device manufacturers, and is unavailable for individual sale. We are currently in discussions with a number of our customers regarding Alien Dalvik and future deployments will be determined by market demand. Mar 16 05:45:34 an0therb0x: your nokia charger has broken D+/- short Mar 16 05:47:29 just doooont say usb pulled out Mar 16 05:52:10 an0therb0x: I guess the D+/- short is done by connecting the white and blue wire of a 4 wire cable running from charger to plug. Probably one of those 2 wires is broken Mar 16 05:52:27 s/blue/green/ Mar 16 05:52:29 DocScrutinizer meant: an0therb0x: I guess the D+/- short is done by connecting the white and green wire of a 4 wire cable running from charger to plug. Probably one of those 2 wires is broken Mar 16 05:54:16 an0therb0x: ...or one of the middle 2 golden contact springs in the USB plug is bent or dirty Mar 16 05:54:52 Mar 16 05:55:06 re-yawn Mar 16 05:55:37 new: smoke over #3, exciting: nothing any more about this desaster Mar 16 05:56:05 RST38h: before you ask ;-D Mar 16 05:56:38 grr Mar 16 05:57:02 grr? Mar 16 05:58:19 last i heard is that they withdrew all the workers from the plant radiation leevels too high atm Mar 16 05:59:34 but thee is confusion if that ment the last 50 workers there or others Mar 16 06:00:23 nah, it actually meant all 50 last kamikaze workers Mar 16 06:00:51 actually they can't reasonably do anything anymore anyway Mar 16 06:01:01 thats what i took it to mean Mar 16 06:02:10 Doc:ah, how boring Mar 16 06:02:27 they should place a proper little bomb under the reactors and start the containment discharge in a semicontrolled way, as long as the wind is friendly Mar 16 06:02:30 Last I heard, they were going to drop sea water from helicopters Mar 16 06:03:10 meh, that's old and of course was a major fail Mar 16 06:03:15 Which, to anyone even slightly familiar with the subject, indicates that they have run out of reasonable methods to stop it Mar 16 06:04:06 supposedly they tried to refill the chill down pool at #4 this way Mar 16 06:04:38 which actually would make sense, if there wasn't some building around it Mar 16 06:09:40 RST38h: if you can't stop it, ride it Mar 16 06:11:18 Doc: No, in hierarchical societies, it means "run around in circles and show the bosses that you are working hard" Mar 16 06:18:55 really they should "open the drain" of the PV and containment *now*, and manage the molten fuel rods as they come drop by drop (place huge amounts of sand and borax there), rather than waiting for a 70 tons of radioactive molten substance to collect in the bilge of containment until it reaches criticality Mar 16 06:21:04 they decided not to drop water in that they could displace the fuel rode in the storage pool and send it critical bu rods being too close together Mar 16 06:21:17 *rods Mar 16 06:21:17 Doc: I am afraid none of us know enough and have enough background to reason like that Mar 16 06:21:28 they should have dne this instead if useless filling in seawater, wait until it boils and builds up pressure and again the rods are in free air without cooling Mar 16 06:21:37 do all types of water act as moderators? Mar 16 06:21:44 i thought it needed heavy water? Mar 16 06:21:53 AFAIK, all, to some degree Mar 16 06:21:59 i thought the reason not to dump in water as it turned into radioactive steam Mar 16 06:22:28 but they are using water mainly for cooling at the moment Mar 16 06:22:39 orlok: yes, of course Mar 16 06:23:07 thease are lite water reactors Mar 16 06:23:23 light? Mar 16 06:23:26 no Mar 16 06:23:27 Because light water works better as a moderator Mar 16 06:24:02 because heavy water is really expensive ;-P Mar 16 06:24:26 and add a nuclear poision to that and it will slow the reaction they used boron(probably boric acid) Mar 16 06:24:56 * RST38h sighs: none of us here are nuclear engineers, so why argue? Mar 16 06:24:58 Dont suppose anybody here knows much about ethernet and ciscos? Mar 16 06:25:08 RST38h: thats been my thought heh Mar 16 06:25:15 yeah, but that's not the problem. the reactor was correctly stopped wrt chain reaction Mar 16 06:25:22 (the people in #cisco are seriously useless) Mar 16 06:25:33 so are most people, in general... Mar 16 06:25:44 well, one or two people have been of some vague help Mar 16 06:25:58 but the rest of them are just parroting crap from books with no uderstanding of why Mar 16 06:26:13 "Force speed and duplex! Force to 100Base-FD!" Mar 16 06:26:26 but cant say why thats any different to the fact they all autonegotiate at 100BaseFD anyway Mar 16 06:26:40 and why my problem goes away when i switch to 100Base-HD Mar 16 06:26:42 use the force!!! Mar 16 06:26:56 And them claim that the fact i'm using ICMP means its not a valit performance metric Mar 16 06:27:11 They are certified cisco engineers! Mar 16 06:27:13 Then claim any throughput issues must be an application error.. When i'm using FTP and SCP Mar 16 06:27:24 Then they claim its the cheapest router cisco sells Mar 16 06:27:47 You have been attacked by certified cisco engineers! Mar 16 06:27:57 tzzzzzzisco Mar 16 06:28:02 and yet still cannot explain why forcing to 100BaseFD is any different to Auto-100Base-FD Mar 16 06:28:03 Rrrrun to the hills! Mar 16 06:28:14 and especially cannot explain why the problem goes away at 100base-HD Mar 16 06:28:19 orlok: Well that I can tell you right away Mar 16 06:28:21 Except to force the links. Mar 16 06:28:34 But cannot say why! Mar 16 06:28:49 RST38h: NOT engineers. Mar 16 06:28:50 orlok: "auto" means the adapters will only go to that mode if they both agree and the line is ok Mar 16 06:29:06 RST38h: Yes, i know all that, and they all went to 100Base-FD-Auto fine! Mar 16 06:29:07 orlok: "forced" means that the adapter will go to that mode no matter what Mar 16 06:29:14 i know all this :) Mar 16 06:29:30 thats the thing - they autodetected to 100Base-FD fine, yet had transmission errors. Mar 16 06:29:39 Errors go away when i force them to 100Base-HD Mar 16 06:29:55 what's FD/HD? Mar 16 06:30:02 Full Duplex. Mar 16 06:30:03 Full Duplex/Half Duplex Mar 16 06:30:05 full/half dupleyx? Mar 16 06:30:06 Half Duplex. Mar 16 06:30:09 orlok: then what are you doing in a channel full of CCPs? Mar 16 06:30:30 ooh, I know I know :-P Mar 16 06:30:33 orlok: probably means one of two things Mar 16 06:30:35 had that Mar 16 06:30:53 RST38h: trying to get an explination for packet loss issues Mar 16 06:31:12 orlok: 1) on of the cards does not support it or 2) your wiring is broken somewhere Mar 16 06:31:15 it seems cos they have paid so much to get their certificates Mar 16 06:31:16 I witnessed that when I used a faulty wired cable once Mar 16 06:31:29 they cannot bear the thought of the cisco gear being anything less than perfect.. that would devalue them! Mar 16 06:31:33 worked fine on HD, broke almost completely on FD Mar 16 06:31:37 orlok: I would go with (2) and start by connecting devices with a piece of wiring that is known to be good Mar 16 06:31:38 RST38h: nope, nope. Mar 16 06:31:52 RST38h: well, it _could_ be the cabling. I will be changing ALL of it tomorrow Mar 16 06:31:55 orlok: howdoyouknow? Mar 16 06:32:01 RST38h: but i have used multiple routers and servers Mar 16 06:32:13 Intel servers, or Lenovo notebooks, etc etc Mar 16 06:32:23 orlok: before you change cabling, try connecting them with a really short piece of a known good FD wire Mar 16 06:32:23 Cables were tested, etc Mar 16 06:32:29 i will open up a new batch tomorrow and test Mar 16 06:32:34 orlok: oh wait have you got any concentrators there??? Mar 16 06:32:52 RST38h: actually, one of the few usefull things anybody in #cisco told me was there is a minimum cable length! Mar 16 06:32:55 2 meters or so Mar 16 06:33:14 but i could not find that in the IEEE cable specs Mar 16 06:33:19 orlok: you may have got a faulty concentrator Mar 16 06:33:26 RST38h: No concentrator. Mar 16 06:33:37 so you only have 2 devices connected? Mar 16 06:33:46 RST38h: This is a testbed replication of an issue i am seeing in a production enviroment Mar 16 06:33:51 ok Mar 16 06:33:51 RST38h Mar 16 06:34:06 Intel server - 2950 - 1841 router - 2950 - Intel server Mar 16 06:34:22 router has cleared config, configured for the two interfaces, etc Mar 16 06:34:47 how about removing 1841 and the second 2950? =) Mar 16 06:34:58 hahahah. Mar 16 06:35:21 Not the fix i was hoping for.. but better than anything they managed! Mar 16 06:35:37 not a fix, just a way to figure out where problem resides Mar 16 06:35:52 it can be either of the servers, either of the 2950s, or the router Mar 16 06:36:05 makes sense to start small, then add shit piece by piece and see when it breaks Mar 16 06:36:09 RST38h: No, its the router. Mar 16 06:36:12 ok Mar 16 06:36:31 Its to due with the duplexing. Mar 16 06:36:54 i can make the problem appear and dissapear by toggling everything from FD to HD Mar 16 06:37:16 In the production network, we had to change a switch WIC interface from half duplex to full duplex and force it Mar 16 06:37:25 as otherwise the switch WIC would lock up every 2 weeks Mar 16 06:37:45 Thats what causes some production errors to show Mar 16 06:37:56 Now i can replicate that here and confirmed that was the problem Mar 16 06:38:15 if the twisted pairs are messed up, you get interferences in cable on duplex Mar 16 06:38:27 now i jkust want to know why, and of course nobody in #cisco will say "cisco sucks" Mar 16 06:38:33 such a cable looks perfect on DC tests Mar 16 06:38:49 DocScrutinizer: yeah, i'm going to unbag some new Cat6 cables tomorrow Mar 16 06:40:34 use a different brand, from another shop ;-) Mar 16 06:40:39 yeah Mar 16 06:40:44 best advice all day :) Mar 16 06:41:16 HTH Mar 16 06:41:51 Meanwhile: Oracle is killing Sun.com, the online home of Sun Microsystems and one of the oldest dot-com domain names. Mar 16 06:42:08 orlok:there is probably a secret setting to toggle somewhere deep inside that router's guts! =) Mar 16 06:43:26 RST38h: Just like what happened to HPHUX and Irix, then the guy that did it went to work for MS.... Mar 16 06:43:48 "Ok, guys, i wiped out the server and workstation compitition like you asked, wheres that breast inspector job?" Mar 16 06:44:06 ehehe Mar 16 06:48:21 Well - they could sell sun.com Mar 16 06:48:49 thesun.co.uk Mar 16 06:48:50 to pizbuin Mar 16 06:49:50 or to thomas cook Mar 16 06:53:39 tsa.gov Mar 16 07:34:29 GE sending 10 gas turbine generators to japannn Mar 16 07:36:45 GE hah. >>>Its reactors were designed by General Electric. (Msnbc.com is a joint venture between NBC Universal and Microsoft. GE is a part owner of NBC Universal.)<<< http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42084187/ns/world_news-asiapacific/ kinda funny how they put it, at end of the article Mar 16 07:39:28 they have to Mar 16 07:39:42 it's standard disclaimer to indicate they're aware of the potential conflict of interest Mar 16 07:39:50 it's part of journalistic integrity Mar 16 07:43:29 it seems they went ahead with dropping water from helicopter Mar 16 07:49:39 hello Mar 16 08:21:41 . Mar 16 08:21:45 . Mar 16 08:21:54 asd Mar 16 08:22:00 oops Mar 16 08:46:08 wow nokia 3310 sold 126 million units Mar 16 09:28:26 http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/03/tsa-radiation-test-bungling/ Mar 16 11:07:05 is there a maemo app that will warn about upcoming ebay endings from the watchlist Mar 16 11:19:39 hey, what is the best way to set up scratchbox on a ubuntu box? Mar 16 11:20:16 for you, installing vmware image Mar 16 11:21:10 sure? Mar 16 11:21:25 How about http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Development_Environment/Maemo_SDK Mar 16 11:21:41 What exactly do you want to do? Mar 16 11:21:46 what abot it Mar 16 11:21:48 Develop C++/Qt apps for Maemo? Mar 16 11:21:51 hey Mar 16 11:22:04 yo. Mar 16 11:22:06 yes. or port some software Mar 16 11:22:43 Basically, if you just want to do C++/Qt, you can get the Nokia Qt SDK Mar 16 11:22:55 it does cross-compilation et all Mar 16 11:23:12 If however you want to use other build systems, such as make, and basically master your own toolchain Mar 16 11:23:17 then you need scratchbox Mar 16 11:23:33 flexxxv: Qt SDK 1.1 can do what you want Mar 16 11:24:01 hmm. I'll do some research Mar 16 11:24:07 crashanddie: not true. while sb may be practical, Qt sdk can do all Mar 16 11:24:16 oh, ok then Mar 16 11:24:18 my bad Mar 16 11:24:56 crashanddie: you can install any lib into MADDE Mar 16 11:25:03 well, yeah Mar 16 11:25:08 but not compile it easily Mar 16 11:25:23 it's not as linux-hacker friendly as scratchbox is Mar 16 11:25:32 not that scratchbox is friendly in any way, shape or form Mar 16 11:25:32 true, true Mar 16 11:30:11 hehe Mar 16 12:04:28 can I use the qt4 designer to build a good interface for maemo 5 Mar 16 12:04:34 ? Mar 16 12:14:33 afternoon all Mar 16 12:18:58 I think the USB port on my N900 has finally reached the level of "broken" :( Mar 16 12:19:09 Its charging right now but thats a miracle I suspect Mar 16 12:20:10 did you get a slowly flashing amber LED light? Mar 16 12:20:57 Its definatly charging Mar 16 12:20:59 I can see the LED Mar 16 12:21:35 But I suspect that if I even breath on my N900 or its USB connector, it will move just that micrometer needed to break the link and stop charging Mar 16 12:22:10 jonwil: After mine stopped charging properly, switching to one of the other charging things worked for a while (they eventually became very sensitive too) Mar 16 12:22:24 no idea why it should have made a difference Mar 16 12:22:33 right now its charging via wall charger Mar 16 12:22:50 which build number do you guys have? Mar 16 12:23:01 which was for a while more flaky than charging via data cable Mar 16 12:23:09 but now both data cable and wall charger are VERY flakey Mar 16 12:23:20 psycho_oreos: where would one find that out? Mar 16 12:23:38 jonwil: I thought you were in hte EU. Mar 16 12:23:41 Or am I confused. Mar 16 12:23:44 nope, I am in Australia Mar 16 12:23:48 Ah. Mar 16 12:24:01 Dunno what .au warranties are. Mar 16 12:24:11 dashavoo, hmm lemme check, iirc it was available in flasher Mar 16 12:24:17 When trying to plug it in, I was able to get it to flash briefly "charging" then "charging stopped" Mar 16 12:24:34 then I tried one more time with the wall charger and just got it to work Mar 16 12:25:39 dashavoo, `flasher --local -i' if doing it on n900 itself, look for hardware revision Mar 16 12:26:46 you can flash on-device? Mar 16 12:26:47 shiny. Mar 16 12:26:51 no Mar 16 12:26:56 jonwil: ever have problems wih it losing SIM contact? Mar 16 12:27:05 nope, its not loosing SIM contact Mar 16 12:27:14 ahh Mar 16 12:27:19 who did you get it through? Mar 16 12:27:19 orlok: I have. Mar 16 12:27:20 optus? Mar 16 12:27:27 orlok: what symptoms do you get> Mar 16 12:27:29 SpeedEvil: ipad-type sim? Mar 16 12:27:32 I bought it from an Australian reseller Mar 16 12:27:38 the one with the extra cutout? Mar 16 12:27:42 psycho_oreos: 2101 Mar 16 12:27:46 i got mine from.. allphones? or something Mar 16 12:27:57 psycho_oreos: and thanks, I didn't know I could get info like that ;) Mar 16 12:27:57 It was an online reseller Mar 16 12:28:00 SpeedEvil: the SIM icon appears and goes grey Mar 16 12:28:00 who sold me one Mar 16 12:28:06 with a genuine Nokia warranty Mar 16 12:28:13 orlok: I don't think I've seent hat. Mar 16 12:28:35 SpeedEvil: you know how you push the sim out of the credit card sized thing? Mar 16 12:28:39 dashavoo, well now you know.. hmm 2101, slightly older than my build. I have heard numerous reports of faulty mUSB breakage Mar 16 12:28:45 SpeedEvil: the ipad sim's are smaller yet again Mar 16 12:29:03 yeah I have heard the reports too Mar 16 12:29:05 so theres a decent bit of plastic missing Mar 16 12:29:48 ipad iirc uses uSIM or something like that, it probably only has the gold bits left of the SIM card to be inserted. That also reminds me of the dual SIM hack with N900 Mar 16 12:29:49 I hope that since flakey USB ports are a "known fault" with the phone, Nokia wont try and tell me its not covered Mar 16 12:29:59 it is a known fault Mar 16 12:30:38 This is my second N900, the first one had a busted flexboard (indicator LED didnt work) and Nokia gave me a replacement rather than a repair Mar 16 12:30:43 psycho_oreos: yup, pretty much Mar 16 12:31:16 jonwil: I have a worse problem... my screen is also severely cracked (I can see pretty much nothing now), so I either get insurance to repair the screen and hopefully usb, or I repair it myself and void the warranty Mar 16 12:32:59 Nokia Care weren't that bad when they fixed the first problem Mar 16 12:33:02 They just took forever Mar 16 12:33:36 Which meant I was without a phone for a week or more Mar 16 12:33:44 despite their claims of "a few days" Mar 16 12:33:48 orlok: Ah Mar 16 12:33:54 orlok: I took a different tack. Mar 16 12:35:04 orlok: Take the existing normal sized 'old style' SIM. Place back in the original holder. Line up with the new ipad SIM holder. remove old SIM holder while holding SIM firmly in place. Mar 16 12:35:14 orlok: Draw round SIM carefully. Mar 16 12:35:27 orlok: Apply sharp chisel to cut off excess. Mar 16 12:35:44 This leaves you an ipad SIM, inside a normal SIM-sized bit of plastic. Mar 16 12:35:51 I need to install this in my phone though. Mar 16 12:37:02 SpeedEvil: yah, except my N900 came with an ipad style SIM Mar 16 12:37:05 so its not as rigid Mar 16 12:37:39 i was thinking that caused my sim disconnect issues Mar 16 12:37:59 CaptainX: my steppers are geared already Mar 16 12:38:13 orlok: Ah. Mar 16 12:38:26 then they have a small gear, connected to a big gear where the fine control knobs are Mar 16 12:38:38 doh Mar 16 12:38:41 wrong channel Mar 16 12:40:00 orlok, you buildiing a reprap in here? Mar 16 12:40:16 haha, no... Mar 16 12:40:27 telescope mount drive system Mar 16 12:40:36 ahh Mar 16 12:47:29 does the camera app open microb by default to view images ? (after tapping that little image icon on the bottom-right_ Mar 16 12:49:14 is it normal for the mA provided by a wall charger to fluctuate (in this case as high as 831 and as low as 745) Mar 16 12:50:55 wall charger provides volts not mA Mar 16 12:51:14 the current (aka "mA") will fluctuate depending on how much power your device consumes Mar 16 12:51:26 so its normal for it to bounce around when charging Mar 16 12:51:36 The main thing is that it IS actually charging Mar 16 12:51:42 :P) Mar 16 12:52:00 and I have moved the phone to a location where nothing can even slightly bump it Mar 16 12:52:05 if i perform a SCP over wireless wile plugged in via USB.. my device discharges.. even though it says charging Mar 16 12:52:05 so there is no danger it will stop charging Mar 16 12:52:33 mine definatly lists a TTF value Mar 16 12:52:52 so bq27200.sh thinks its charging Mar 16 12:53:22 mail.westernfireprotection.net (70.184.39.241) hoglahoo.com (74.208.41.180) Mar 16 12:53:24 doh Mar 16 12:56:57 loyal dog is loyal Mar 16 13:06:46 orlok: when I am charging with usb and also using the phone for other things, I often get a message warning me that the device is consuming more than the usb cable is providing Mar 16 13:07:34 dashavoo: ahh.. that may be why.. i didnt see a message Mar 16 13:08:02 but i was ssh'd into it, doing a tar -cf / across ssh Mar 16 13:10:15 hi! on the N900, I am using the "--force-power-key" R&D flag to auto-boot the device when receiving power. is it possible to have this functionality when not in R&D mode? Mar 16 13:11:15 lcuk: http://pastie.org/1678343 Mar 16 13:11:29 great, hal-device bme and bq2700.sh disagree on whether the device is recieving power or not Mar 16 13:12:07 lcuk: known prob ? Mar 16 13:12:11 sampos, liqbase (0.1.5) has to date not run on the n900 Mar 16 13:12:19 hal-device bme says "maemo.rechargeable.positive_rate = true" and "maemo.rechargeable.charging_status = 'on'" Mar 16 13:12:22 I have never tried to push the code through Mar 16 13:12:35 yet bq2700.sh says TTF is 65535 Mar 16 13:12:45 and is implying juice is being drained Mar 16 13:12:47 lcuk: ah, ok. Mar 16 13:13:09 I dismantled and was building it as individual components in the libliqbase, liqbase-playground and all associated apps liq* Mar 16 13:13:21 rather than the monolithich blob Mar 16 13:13:27 -h Mar 16 13:13:29 I suspect I am not going to get a charged device Mar 16 13:14:17 sampos, the classic one *can* be tweaked to work on x86 and that was what I did on my meego ideapad whilst comparing optimisations Mar 16 13:15:39 lcuk: maybe we have it on n900de someday ? Mar 16 13:15:41 I get the feeling that I have no choice but to go back to Nokia Care ASAP and hope they dont take 2 weeks to fix it :( Mar 16 13:16:35 hello. is there a way to import the saved sms on my sim card to my n900? Mar 16 13:16:52 sampos, no - the entire functionality exists in the library as individual apps, it all just needs polishing and aligning Mar 16 13:16:53 holy shit, its actually charging again now Mar 16 13:17:44 sampos, having it as individual plugin apps is better and much more maintainable Mar 16 13:18:19 of course if someone else wanted to! Mar 16 13:18:44 :o Mar 16 13:18:45 lcuk: :) Mar 16 13:18:57 * lcuk does not think it is useful though as cleaning the library Mar 16 13:19:06 * umm`900 waits for the answer as well ^-^ Mar 16 13:19:56 sampos, MeeGo N900 DE would be better with : http://liqbase.net/liq.meego.r&d.n900.and.ideapad.fullspeed.20110220_011.jpg Mar 16 13:20:13 which shows the apps running fullspeed on all MeeGo devices I have Mar 16 13:21:45 that looks nice Mar 16 13:22:47 sampos, :) Mar 16 13:23:41 sampos, notice that there are actually *more* apps running on the n900 one on that screenshot ;) Mar 16 13:25:17 * sampos looks more closely Mar 16 13:32:47 umm`900: ^-----^ Mar 16 13:42:29 *-* Mar 16 13:47:43 Yep, further examination of my N900 USB port under bright light reveals damage. I hope Nokia doesn't decide that whatever damage there is doesn't quality for a warranty fix (e.g. they claim "its clear that you used force on the connector so we wont cover it") otherwise I am in trouble Mar 16 13:48:04 :/ Mar 16 13:48:24 I can see that the port is slightly out of alignment Mar 16 13:48:33 hence my concern :( Mar 16 13:49:40 jonwil: since USB port damage is commonplace in N900s, I don't see why they would decline Mar 16 13:50:22 I think its clear from the # of reports of it that the N900 USB port is poorly designed Mar 16 13:51:41 My big issue is the fact that I will be without a phone for however long Mar 16 13:51:50 which makes it harder for me when I am trying to find a job Mar 16 13:51:58 as I cant receive important calls Mar 16 13:53:55 heh Mar 16 13:54:10 i can't say i have ever had a problem with my n900 usb port Mar 16 13:54:27 And I thought Nokia was known for making good quality hardware Mar 16 13:54:34 Or is the N900 the exception to the rule? Mar 16 13:54:51 * RST38h sets /ignore and sighs Mar 16 13:56:31 he yank his usb out yeet? Mar 16 13:56:33 yet? Mar 16 13:59:53 how silly Mar 16 14:00:05 cell phones are like sand on the beach Mar 16 14:00:22 ebay: 1 ero Mar 16 14:01:10 hey I'm trying to compile under scratchbox a programm and I get: greektranslit.cc:1: error: stray '\357' in program greektranslit.cc:1: error: stray '\273' in program greektranslit.cc:1: error: stray '\277' in program Mar 16 14:01:31 The file contains some greek symbols and is utf8 coded Mar 16 14:01:31 You are typing your program in unicode Mar 16 14:01:33 anyone into GLib (GValue to be precise) Mar 16 14:01:55 what about it? Mar 16 14:02:26 I'm getting segfaults Mar 16 14:02:37 on what code? Mar 16 14:02:38 I changed a GValue to a pointer Mar 16 14:02:41 sec Mar 16 14:03:43 http://gitorious.org/qt-mediaplayer/mediaplayer/blobs/master/mafwrendereradapter.cpp#line328 Mar 16 14:03:58 if you look at that, you'll notice it's initialize a GValue each time that's called Mar 16 14:04:12 since it's connected to a slider, that's a lot, and I'm guessing that's what causes the slider to be shitty Mar 16 14:04:29 now, I changed that to a pointer defined in the header, and initialized it correctly Mar 16 14:04:55 GVolume = NULL; g_value_init (GVolume, G_TYPE_UINT); Mar 16 14:05:25 and changed the section on gitorious to be g_value_set_uint (GVolume, volume); mafw_extension.. etc Mar 16 14:05:47 it's segfaulting on it, mafw_extension_set_property(MAFW_EXTENSION(this->mafw_renderer), MAFW_PROPERTY_RENDERER_VOLUME, GVolume); Mar 16 14:06:20 ooooooooooooooooo Mar 16 14:06:29 Of course it is segfaulting Mar 16 14:07:03 hmm? Mar 16 14:07:04 g_value_init() is supposed to take a pointer to the EXISTING GValue and set it to type UINT Mar 16 14:07:13 You give it a 0 instead of the pointer Mar 16 14:07:16 Kaboom. Mar 16 14:07:28 but it's segfaulting on the mafw line :P Mar 16 14:07:55 could you pastebin your code somewhere? Mar 16 14:09:26 http://pastebin.com/j7TanXQn Mar 16 14:09:52 segfaults on 318 Mar 16 14:10:04 hi Mar 16 14:10:17 i'm looking at a way to update my n810 Mar 16 14:10:36 is there a new image since os2008? Mar 16 14:11:02 (been told meego wouldn't work on n810) Mar 16 14:11:05 :-/ Mar 16 14:11:33 Aquarina: there is no stable meego for en users. what do you want to do with meego? Mar 16 14:12:02 flexxxv: i'd like to have it behave more like an ordinary computer Mar 16 14:12:12 multiple users Mar 16 14:12:17 for example Mar 16 14:12:29 share internet connection Mar 16 14:13:10 Mohammad: ok this may not work Mar 16 14:13:14 Mohammad: it is wrong Mar 16 14:13:16 export the display through ssh ... Mar 16 14:13:30 RST38h, how? Mar 16 14:13:37 Mohammad: please do this: Mar 16 14:13:57 meego ist right now only for developers (at all devices). It won't work like an ordinary pc Mar 16 14:14:07 Mohammad: 1. At the top level, declare GValue GVolume; (NOT a pointer) Mar 16 14:14:14 try something like easydebian Mar 16 14:14:35 Mohammad: 2. Replace GVolume=NULL with memset(&GVolume, 0, sizeof(GVolume)) Mar 16 14:14:47 Mohammad: 3. replace GVolume with &GVolume everywhere Mar 16 14:14:53 Mohammad: 4. See if it works. Mar 16 14:15:47 flexxxv: hum... I'd LOVE to have debian on it Mar 16 14:16:07 flexxxv: is there a page I can digg it? Mar 16 14:17:03 Aquarina: google? I have a n800 (I'm not using at the moment) and I had the abillity to dual boot debian Mar 16 14:17:22 ok, great Mar 16 14:17:44 RST38h, works, but the slider's still slow :/ Mar 16 14:18:05 now... let's see if there is some sort of netinstall - that would be a realy great thing Mar 16 14:18:45 Aquarina: dont you think debian inside of a chroot enviroment is better? Mar 16 14:19:02 (I'd love to have a minimal system where I could install just what I'd need) Mar 16 14:19:37 do some search on talk.maemo.org . It should be somwhere there Mar 16 14:20:07 flexxxv: hum... that would add more need for storage space on top of maemo Mar 16 14:20:48 flexxxv: did you manage to have debian booting from internal card, as oposed to external card? Mar 16 14:21:50 that is some time ago... If I remember right you can change the bootmenu to start from the internal card Mar 16 14:22:03 Mohammad: I doubt it has anything to do with this variable Mar 16 14:22:25 Mohammad: Should I explain why it crashed, just to prevent repeats ? =) Mar 16 14:23:03 I already did that, I installed mer on another card and booted from it Mar 16 14:23:57 I think it would be easy to change from one option to the other, but as far as I know, I couldn't have installed mer on internal card Mar 16 14:24:49 I don't realy undestand why but I think it had something to do with the bootloader Mar 16 14:26:26 Aquarina: I think you can the bootmenu Mar 16 14:27:04 Aquarina: I think you can change the bootmenu Mar 16 14:27:09 btw: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=20053 Mar 16 14:29:01 RST38h, cause mafw takes a const GValue pointer? Mar 16 14:31:39 I'm trying to compile goldendict in scratchbox. I get this error: http://pastebin.com/4N2Uedtp here is the code http://pastebin.com/C8qGsHDB Mar 16 14:31:52 greektranslit.cc:1: error: stray '\357' in program Mar 16 14:32:47 I'm afraid I fell off from irc Mar 16 14:32:49 :-( Mar 16 14:32:55 damn web client Mar 16 14:34:50 * SpeedEvil nails Aquarina to the channel. Mar 16 14:35:51 flexxxv: thanks :-) Mar 16 14:36:00 ups! Mar 16 14:36:20 I meant SpeedEvil Mar 16 14:36:23 hi maemo developers, I am new here Mar 16 14:36:38 so... where was I? Mar 16 14:36:48 hi eusou444 - I'm a lurker here ;) Mar 16 14:40:03 there are so many people here Mar 16 14:41:57 ok, I can't seem to find easydebian page with instructions!... Mar 16 14:43:29 well... I'll have to go Mar 16 14:43:39 thk u guys Mar 16 14:44:45 Aquarina: package should be in some of the extras repos Mar 16 14:46:10 when browsing some page, can I zoom in and have the browser fit the contents to the new width? Mar 16 14:47:17 CTRL+SHIFT+I Mar 16 14:49:48 MohammadAG: when I do that, the url bar just opens and gets focus Mar 16 14:51:34 I mapped shift-backspace to esc, maybe that messed it up Mar 16 14:53:20 I have a problem with my SDK in networking conection. It was unable to connect to internet when WLAN of my work. But in my home there is no problem. Mar 16 14:58:16 MohammadAG, i hate Orange Mar 16 14:58:25 those bitches need to die Mar 16 14:58:31 ZogG, hmm? Mar 16 14:58:41 Pedophone isn't any better Mar 16 14:58:44 Pelephone* Mar 16 14:59:09 MohammadAG, do you have fanatic maybe? =) Mar 16 14:59:11 koala_man, no ideas, it works for me :( Mar 16 14:59:14 I second MohammadAG on that! Mar 16 14:59:22 *jocking* Mar 16 14:59:43 AsiQue, you're from IL? Mar 16 14:59:52 yep Mar 16 14:59:58 your IP range is the same as mine... Mar 16 14:59:59 heh Mar 16 15:00:17 :-) i'll take it as a compliement Mar 16 15:00:31 *it -> that Mar 16 15:00:42 you're on orange too? Mar 16 15:00:49 pelephone... Mar 16 15:00:54 ah Mar 16 15:01:04 hate them! Mar 16 15:01:11 ZogG, did you notice they changed the network name to orange? (from IL Orange) Mar 16 15:01:34 MohammadAG i think you asked him already... Mar 16 15:01:44 he never answered :P Mar 16 15:02:04 AsiQue, my dad has Pelephone Mar 16 15:02:09 on an iPhone Mar 16 15:02:13 it barely gets a bar Mar 16 15:02:14 MohammadAG nope i have custom name Mar 16 15:02:35 damn i wanted iphone4 from nov just to sell it and get student discount Mar 16 15:02:44 but still no iphones Mar 16 15:02:49 how come? Mar 16 15:02:58 I wanted him to get a Galaxy S Mar 16 15:03:01 and now i can't jailbreak 4.3 Mar 16 15:03:07 but it was sold out Mar 16 15:03:20 MohammadAG, i can take galaxy but more chanes i sell iphone Mar 16 15:03:25 well they have Galaxy S now Mar 16 15:03:43 ZogG, why can't you jailbreak 4.3? Mar 16 15:03:58 crashanddie is their jailbreak for it alreadY? Mar 16 15:04:03 yeah Mar 16 15:04:05 yes, afaik Mar 16 15:04:48 http://www.techtree.com/India/News/Sn0wbreeze_23_Jailbreaks_iOS_43_Running_Devices/551-114804-580.html Mar 16 15:04:50 MohammadAG: i actually have good reception with them... although they have some dead spots... Mar 16 15:04:56 "It is a tethered jailbreak so it requires a Windows PC every time you wish to reboot your device" Mar 16 15:05:52 Hahah Mar 16 15:05:59 That is hilarious :) Mar 16 15:06:16 alterego, when was 4.3 released? Mar 16 15:06:17 Someone should write N900 iOS 4.3 jailbreaker now Mar 16 15:06:49 Then all the iPhone 4 owners will buy an N900 and end up prefering it in the end .. muahahaha Mar 16 15:06:59 Highly doubt it, lol Mar 16 15:07:16 I've had more fun with my iPod touch in 2 weeks than with my n900 in 2 years... Mar 16 15:07:37 pelephoned stoled money from me when i was soldier Mar 16 15:08:04 ZogG how? Mar 16 15:08:20 hi all Mar 16 15:08:37 AsiQue, i got about 10 hours for 100 shekels or something discount Mar 16 15:08:41 anybody knows if Candle 1.0 app by offscreen technologies is open source? Mar 16 15:08:55 I want to reuse the candle vidoes Mar 16 15:09:04 and as i was at course i could talk only at 1 hour break once a day Mar 16 15:09:09 someone knows if there is a commercial LCD glasses via bluetoth ? I'm planning to use that with n900 and maemo. Mar 16 15:09:11 which mostly i didn't Mar 16 15:09:24 crashanddie, you high or something? :P Mar 16 15:09:30 but i got bills like i was talking over 15 hours Mar 16 15:09:38 MohammadAG, no, why? Mar 16 15:09:54 crashanddie, you can't have fun with an iPod, at least not without apps Mar 16 15:09:56 as well as i closes number and left only with orange i got regular bill at orange Mar 16 15:10:03 had 2 phones Mar 16 15:10:26 MohammadAG, been having plenty of fun with HTML5 apps Mar 16 15:10:27 ZogG, Strange... what did they say? Mar 16 15:10:35 MohammadAG, and developing with the gyroscope, w/e Mar 16 15:10:38 crashanddie, give QML a chance Mar 16 15:10:42 MohammadAG, what do you think of app tp get info from orange of time you talked, sms sent, internet data and so on? Mar 16 15:11:46 ZogG, no API? Mar 16 15:11:47 guys do you know if CONFIG_MUSB_PIO_ONLY is enabled by default in the kernel? Mar 16 15:12:03 I mean, dma is enabled in the maemo kernel? Mar 16 15:12:09 (by default) Mar 16 15:14:06 anyone tried new nitdroid? Mar 16 15:14:53 there is a new one? Mar 16 15:17:48 anyone an Idea why I get "greektranslit.cc:1: error: stray '\357' in program" under scratchbox enviroment? Mar 16 15:17:48 AsiQue, they gave me 10 papers of calls with numbers i did, how the F i would check? Mar 16 15:18:02 its working when compiling normally Mar 16 15:18:03 MohammadAG, i dunno, i'll email orange Mar 16 15:18:49 here the complete error: http://pastebin.com/4N2Uedtp codeis here http://pastebin.com/C8qGsHDB Mar 16 15:19:30 * ZogG is watching hard die 2 Mar 16 15:19:39 ZogG, strange... so in orange it's all good? Mar 16 15:19:58 AsiQue, was Mar 16 15:20:04 till i pay too much now Mar 16 15:21:00 ZogG, are u reffering the nitdroied build from 2 months ago...? Mar 16 15:21:17 ZogG, so what now... cellcome? Mar 16 15:25:43 AsiQue: bah don't say this word in this esteemed channel Mar 16 15:25:53 orange for the win, although they kill my money spin Mar 16 15:26:04 lol Mar 16 15:26:34 * sivang mailed offscreen people Mar 16 15:27:17 tbh Mar 16 15:27:23 hey MohammadAG , are you running for council ? Mar 16 15:27:25 all 3 operators suck, orange sucks least Mar 16 15:27:36 sivang, nah, not much time in the coming months Mar 16 15:27:40 MohammadAG: damn right Mar 16 15:27:47 MohammadAG: How is school and stuff? Mar 16 15:27:59 that's exactly why I don't have time :P Mar 16 15:28:03 MohammadAG: :) Mar 16 15:29:16 I feel like releasing v0.1 of my mediaplayer Mar 16 15:29:57 MohammadAG: please do, QML based right? Mar 16 15:30:20 no Mar 16 15:30:30 it has QML parts, but it's pure Qt for the rest Mar 16 15:31:17 MohammadAG: nice, so you caught on C++ on the go? Mar 16 15:31:19 I want to test that too Mar 16 15:31:29 sivang, yes Mar 16 15:31:31 (/me lols at the 'on the go' phrase) Mar 16 15:31:37 geez I would even want to get rid of the stock media player if I could Mar 16 15:31:45 MohammadAG: so what do you need school for? Mar 16 15:31:48 Sc0rpius, you're not a noob, http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/mediaplayer Mar 16 15:32:07 I thought the source was closed "so far" Mar 16 15:32:25 sivang, lol how would I find a job without a certificate Mar 16 15:32:32 MohammadAG: oh please :) Mar 16 15:32:32 Sc0rpius, rewrite Mar 16 15:32:56 what? :P Mar 16 15:33:00 MohammadAG: but you're right, actually. Especially if you want to someday move to someplace normal like the EU :-p Mar 16 15:33:52 Normal? EU? Mar 16 15:34:02 GAN900: remember where we come from :) Mar 16 15:34:14 GAN900: all a matter of perspectiv Mar 16 15:34:16 e Mar 16 15:34:23 sivang, yeah, fair enough. Mar 16 15:34:27 hehe Mar 16 15:34:42 MohammadAG: study hard, my friend so you won't turn like me. Mar 16 15:35:00 MohammadAG: code will always be written and bit rot. A degree is for life Mar 16 15:35:38 MohammadAG: it is easy to get development jobs in TLV without a degree, but then it is just as easy to lose the :) Mar 16 15:35:42 *them Mar 16 15:36:25 hmm Mar 16 15:36:36 MohammadAG: I realized that Accelerate C++ is probably the worst book on C++ ever written for seasoned developers like me, so I switched to Herbert Schildt and I profit. Mar 16 15:37:14 MohammadAG: not to mention TLV's work scene is one big mad house in terms of no planing, crazy deadlines and unorganized schedule. Mar 16 15:37:48 MohammadAG: I used to work for Animation Lab in Jerusalem, the renovated govmt. money printer building. Mar 16 15:37:53 sivang: s/planing/planning/ Mar 16 15:37:54 MohammadAG: Beit Lehem road or something Mar 16 15:37:59 Move to the US. :P Mar 16 15:38:05 wow C++ Mar 16 15:38:06 timeless_w7ip: oh you again! :) Mar 16 15:38:07 I thought you were in the EU tbh Mar 16 15:38:13 sivang. try Practical C++ Programming Mar 16 15:38:15 sivang: i'm only passing by Mar 16 15:38:17 Sc0rpius, C++ isn't that bad Mar 16 15:38:18 I have way too much of a long time without programming in C++ Mar 16 15:38:21 at least with Qt Mar 16 15:38:24 It's too bad immigration and customs is so idiotic here. Mar 16 15:38:27 sivang, get me job =) Mar 16 15:38:28 all OO I have done lately is either Java or C# (.NET) Mar 16 15:38:35 not coding something more easier =) Mar 16 15:38:40 ZogG: I lost mine, I can't help others :) Mar 16 15:38:47 I kinda like C, but Qt's C++ and I find that way more productive Mar 16 15:38:55 sivang looking for one? Mar 16 15:39:10 GAN900: my N8 just got detained for 8 days in custom :-) Mar 16 15:39:21 GAN900: my seoncd term forum nokia champion gift Mar 16 15:39:28 GAN900: 8 whole days Mar 16 15:39:36 don't feel bad Mar 16 15:39:47 GAN900: it flew from Espoo to here in just less then 24 hours! Mar 16 15:39:50 same happened with the N900 Mar 16 15:40:02 MohammadAG: yes, it happened last year as well! Mar 16 15:40:03 :) Mar 16 15:40:04 customs suck Mar 16 15:40:11 MohammadAG: especially ours.. Mar 16 15:40:24 yeah, 34% on my N900 wasn't nice Mar 16 15:40:26 AsiQue: interestig - what's your work mode? Mar 16 15:40:36 MohammadAG: same here.. Mar 16 15:40:39 my n900 wasn't delayed... had it labeld as mobile computer Mar 16 15:40:47 so they taxed you 17% Mar 16 15:40:49 ? Mar 16 15:40:55 MohammadAG: You are also a champion ? should be IMHO Mar 16 15:41:06 MohammadAG: yes, as if I bought it Mar 16 15:41:16 sivang: embedded progrmming + fpga's, we are looking for another team member... Mar 16 15:41:19 if you didn't buy it, you don't pay tax Mar 16 15:41:31 or customs Mar 16 15:41:32 MohammadAG: no use in crying saying it is not for porfit but to write cross platforms QML tutorials...:/ Mar 16 15:41:43 and no, I'm not a champion Mar 16 15:41:54 but I did request a DDP, didn't get charged for it Mar 16 15:41:57 MohammadAG: as per http://wiki.meego.com/Qt_across_(Maemo-)MeeGo_%26_Symbian Mar 16 15:41:58 AsiQue, what company? Mar 16 15:42:03 * MohammadAG thanks Nokia Mar 16 15:42:16 sivang DSIT Mar 16 15:42:25 MohammadAG: I did the same, still had to pay since the value they decided it has is higher then market value inside .IL Mar 16 15:42:32 wtf Mar 16 15:42:47 the DDP had 7xx NIS tax on it, but they didn't make me pay it Mar 16 15:43:06 MohammadAG: you know I paid for the first ever ubuntu cds to enter IL ? Mar 16 15:43:22 why pay for Ubuntu CDs? :P Mar 16 15:43:33 I got taxed for books once Mar 16 15:43:34 MohammadAG: the bearded guy at custom said I am going to sell them and that I am lying. Mar 16 15:43:42 LOL Mar 16 15:43:44 MohammadAG: to get them into .IL Mar 16 15:43:49 the warty cds! Mar 16 15:43:50 lol ZogG, DSIT Mar 16 15:43:55 yeah, but why not download ISOs? Mar 16 15:44:01 thanks AsiQue , can I log on a web site? Mar 16 15:44:04 they're free anyway Mar 16 15:44:12 AsiQue: do you follow a methodology ? Mar 16 15:44:19 MohammadAG: they did not buy it./ Mar 16 15:44:36 MohammadAG: they said that noboy is going to gove 300cds for free Mar 16 15:44:45 sivang, didn't understand the first question.... Mar 16 15:45:04 MohammadAG: but Hamakor compensated me with honorary membership for that. Mar 16 15:45:18 sivang, actually not... it's a small group with alot of work... beed trying to get things into order... Mar 16 15:45:19 MohammadAG: for the 150nis I paid back in 2004 Mar 16 15:45:54 AsiQue: how many hours of work a day? I take its a startup? Mar 16 15:46:26 AsiQue, no need in stupid noobies in computer sphere, maybe linux junior admin or something or QA? Mar 16 15:46:48 sivang, no it's not a startup... the rt group is small, were something like 30 ppl in the hw / sw field... Mar 16 15:47:07 sivang: were you missing proper documentation of ownership? or did they claim it hadn't been tested+approved? Mar 16 15:47:25 AsiQue: I can offer you a sacrifice for thought in advance: http://conference2010.meego.com/session/creating-first-choice-open-source-mobile-platform-learning-mistakes-past-and-beyond Mar 16 15:47:39 ZogG, no sorry,,,, we've got that coverd Mar 16 15:47:56 AsiQue: sounds nice, got a job description and required qualifications? Mar 16 15:48:17 timeless_w7ip: no and no. they claimed there is no way I am not going to make profit out of it. Mar 16 15:48:34 give me a sec... Mar 16 15:48:36 timeless_w7ip: canonical sent letters, phones were exchanged etc Mar 16 15:48:43 timeless_w7ip: nothing helped. Mar 16 15:48:57 workrave is angry. be back in 10 minutes Mar 16 15:49:07 AsiQue =( Mar 16 15:50:05 AsiQue hard to get job with no experience for student nowdays =( Mar 16 15:51:23 ZogG: yeha i know... a friend of mine tried to find a job some months ago... took him ages... (he just finished a math degree) Mar 16 15:51:51 sivang.... so meggo is pronounced... meeeeegoooo.... cool :-) Mar 16 15:52:08 sivang, listening to the lecture... :-) Mar 16 15:52:33 me go. to tampere -> Mar 16 15:52:49 AsiQue i'm failing on second year of software ing as i do not have enuf time to study Mar 16 15:54:05 I wonder if I could get a job :P Mar 16 15:54:33 ZogG, why don't you have time? Mar 16 15:55:38 AsiQue i work a lot ans shitty shifts so when i do have ime i just fall asleep Mar 16 15:59:05 I hope N9 will have a a tinkerbell emmc :( Mar 16 15:59:52 it will have nothing =) Mar 16 15:59:59 tinkerbell? Mar 16 16:00:23 what N9? Mar 16 16:00:25 he means magic Mar 16 16:00:30 just kids around here Mar 16 16:00:35 n950 Mar 16 16:00:41 mohammadag: a pair of random letters Mar 16 16:00:47 timeless_w7ip, thought so Mar 16 16:00:54 which hypothetically could conform to an outdated nokia model schema Mar 16 16:01:01 i don't have an n8, i have an n8-00 Mar 16 16:01:07 so i'd expect there shouldn't be an n9 :) Mar 16 16:01:09 ZogG... where do you study? Mar 16 16:01:13 N9-00? Mar 16 16:01:16 :p Mar 16 16:02:19 maybe over9000n would have mmc Mar 16 16:02:57 "Indilinx has new controller technology, called Tinkerbell, which is a high-performance e.MMC" ... "transfer data at 104MB/sec, at Double Data Rate, for both sequential and random I/Os" Mar 16 16:03:07 sivang.... can we go private? Mar 16 16:03:40 AsiQue afeka Mar 16 16:03:57 104MB/s is somewhat more than the ~80 kbyte/s N900's emmc does :) Mar 16 16:04:04 ZogG, cool... 2nd year from 4 right? Mar 16 16:04:10 mohammadag: well, that would be consistent with nokia's latest versioning trend Mar 16 16:04:17 or maybe it was the trend 6 months ago Mar 16 16:04:23 AsiQue don't touch sivang in unproper places Mar 16 16:04:30 sometimes i think they change trends more often than they ship products :) Mar 16 16:04:40 :-) Mar 16 16:04:50 improper* Mar 16 16:13:05 AsiQue: yes, I was in a workrave break Mar 16 16:13:54 grr Mar 16 16:14:04 someone signed timeless@gmail up for tickets to a BBC show Mar 16 16:14:08 (as Tim) Mar 16 16:14:27 timeless_w7ip: lol Mar 16 16:15:11 timeless_w7ip: maybe the same guy who uses the same nick you told me about in Dublin ? Mar 16 16:15:32 AsiQue: btw, the guy with the jokes and the funny stuff in that talk is timeless_w7ip :) Mar 16 16:16:00 ohh cool Mar 16 16:19:05 timeless_w7ip: I just wanted to say, when network-manager screws you. Use W7 with joikuspot. network manager seems to not like joikuspot too much; re: w7ip nick Mar 16 16:19:56 * ShadowJK likes to call it notworkmanager Mar 16 16:29:27 ShadowJK: just like holdon-app-manager? ;) Mar 16 16:30:24 luckily I only use appmanager once a month :) Mar 16 16:35:01 timeless_w7ip: projects@FN load balancer is acting up :/ Mar 16 16:40:11 andre__: i didn't feel like saying it, but that's the right conclusion Mar 16 16:40:27 the browser team to the extent it exists is interested in Fennec Mar 16 16:40:56 timeless_w7ip, I'm fine with saying it ;-) Mar 16 16:42:50 :) Mar 16 16:54:48 is there a way to see the sms from sql database with human readable time and date? Mar 16 16:57:05 eichi: beyond the browser interface and just speaking sqlite? Mar 16 16:57:20 sqlite Mar 16 16:57:34 there is a strange time_send etc. format Mar 16 16:57:45 is this unix time? Mar 16 16:57:58 rtfm? Mar 16 16:58:38 where? Mar 16 16:59:09 dont thinks, this is in the original n900 user manual Mar 16 16:59:39 what's the format, exactly? Mar 16 16:59:50 Because last I checked, it was simple sqlite datetime or something Mar 16 17:00:01 1295609211 Mar 16 17:00:12 is a time Mar 16 17:00:48 Fri, 21 Jan 2011 11:26:51 GMT Mar 16 17:01:14 time for 12648430 ☕ Mar 16 17:01:45 and how to calculate this? Mar 16 17:01:53 I give up Mar 16 17:01:56 learn to RTFM. Mar 16 17:04:30 man date ; >>%s seconds since 1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC Mar 16 17:07:08 more helpful: man sqlite3 Mar 16 17:07:34 if that's not one of the friggin berkley db Mar 16 17:35:57 good evening everyone Mar 16 17:42:33 anyone here familiar with the queen beecon widget, specifically the gps funtion? i read 45 pages of the thread and couldn't even find a question about it. tbh, I can't make much of the wiki description for this function as it merely points to the location api page. So, any hint in the right direction is very much appreciated Mar 16 17:47:12 morn Mar 16 17:55:46 /o\ >>> 2:35 (approximately) CNN Reports that a 3km evacuation zone has been declared around a second nuclear facility that is approximately 30km south of Fukushima plant. No further details were provided.<<< Mar 16 17:56:55 I thought that's Fukushima-II ~20km South of Fuku-I Mar 16 17:57:27 DocScrutinizer: haven't they already got a >3km evacuation zone? Mar 16 17:57:36 they did Mar 16 17:57:41 now they expanded it Mar 16 17:58:52 hi again, is someone aware of a page explaining how to install easydebian on n810? Mar 16 18:00:46 japan is doomed Mar 16 18:01:12 right now a meltdown might help if the reactor just goes straight down and keeps going Mar 16 18:01:22 haha Mar 16 18:01:37 then has the molten rock melt closed behind it Mar 16 18:02:30 well, I suggested yesterday they should actively initiate core discharge *now* rather than waiting till it burns thru the floor and nobody has _any_ control over the situation Mar 16 18:02:32 seriously. Mar 16 18:02:36 Macer: groundwater. Mar 16 18:02:46 and soluble thigs Mar 16 18:02:48 ^things Mar 16 18:03:10 BCMM: it will go right through that. i a week or so the ground water will be fine Mar 16 18:03:16 i/in Mar 16 18:03:19 :) Mar 16 18:03:20 Macer: there is absolutely totally no way that would happen without radioactive iodine dissolving in the groundwater Mar 16 18:03:24 Macer: BS Mar 16 18:03:25 i mean, lots of it Mar 16 18:04:03 heh. well i figure ground water flows... so won't it just flush out? Mar 16 18:04:13 otoh ground water at shore usually is salty and not usable Mar 16 18:04:20 just drink bottled water :) Mar 16 18:04:29 and tends to flow from land to sea Mar 16 18:04:34 also, between breaching containment and melting through the floor (if it does such a thing), the melt will most likely *catch fire* Mar 16 18:05:04 bccmexplosions are the problem... and atmosphere release Mar 16 18:05:15 catch fire == atmospheric release Mar 16 18:05:18 BCMM: so ..... :) Mar 16 18:05:40 why? if it goes through the containment building floor....? Mar 16 18:05:55 (land to sea) unless of course they are pumping up so much of it for tapwater, that the sea water pushes in landward to replace the loss (happening in all spain) Mar 16 18:06:39 the containment building filters radioative materials.. so a "fire" would be contained as it melts and creates molten rock around it Mar 16 18:06:55 * javispedro doesn't drink seawater.. Mar 16 18:07:18 i am sure the molten rock might work well for convection. as lont as the rods are in decay heat will go away sooner or later Mar 16 18:07:47 Macer: again BS Mar 16 18:07:50 javispedro: do you eat fish? Mar 16 18:08:38 DocScrutinizer: flowing ground water might help :) Mar 16 18:08:49 Macer: which rods? in a molten gue of 3000°C and critical mass? that's the major problem of a coremelt: it tends to start chain reaction again Mar 16 18:09:28 Macer: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/BWR_Mark_I_Containment,_cutaway.jpg Mar 16 18:10:02 Macer: stuff somehow burrowing into the ground straight from the red thing? Mar 16 18:10:06 goo Mar 16 18:10:13 s/gue/goo/. Mar 16 18:11:15 heh Mar 16 18:11:28 gue is a nicer sounding word tho :) Mar 16 18:11:48 sounds like g-ew Mar 16 18:11:49 also, the groundwater isn't "flushing" stuff into the centre of the earth or something Mar 16 18:11:53 it's all still gotta go somewhere Mar 16 18:11:57 eaten by a grue Mar 16 18:12:04 DocScrutinizer: though previous examples prove that even in cases of large part of the fuel melting, fission tends not to happen (mostly because it also melts with metal, concrete, etc.) Mar 16 18:12:27 by previous examples I mean TMI and Chernobyl, even. Mar 16 18:12:33 timeless_w7ip: Yes :) Mar 16 18:12:37 BCMM: so a few whales die Mar 16 18:12:47 :) Mar 16 18:12:58 javispedro: presumably, the control rods would end up in the melt too, moderating the neutron flux Mar 16 18:13:16 fill up concrete pool under reactor with sand and borax, "pull plug" of containment so all the molten material can exit of containment as it melts down, not collect to a 70 tons blob of whiteglowing 3000° molten critical pulp Mar 16 18:13:52 sadly, that is expensive to clean. Mar 16 18:14:12 if containment keeps you're talking about a 30 year few million project. Mar 16 18:14:36 few billion you mean Mar 16 18:15:53 no, few million. Mar 16 18:16:05 for now they still are in danger of a pressurized coremelt, which doesn't end as a china syndrome but rather like a small nuke explosion Mar 16 18:16:45 Doc,javispedro: folks, do not make a mistake of playing nuclear engineers not having any background Mar 16 18:16:58 * javispedro does have a slight background in reactor retirement... Mar 16 18:17:54 javispedro: uhuh, so they sanitized ThreMiles with a few million? Darn our technicians here in Germany are idiots, each of the Nuke plants we dismantled so far cost a few billion Mar 16 18:18:33 doc: inflation :) Mar 16 18:18:38 and those were in "perfect condition" when dismantling Mar 16 18:19:08 well, the entire budget for the dismantling of a plant that is at around 30 km from here was 200 million euro (not adjusted) Mar 16 18:19:40 Doc: This is not idiocy. This is wise application of federal funds. Mar 16 18:19:48 and it wasn't in "perfect" condition, it was dismantled because of a INES level 3 "incident" Mar 16 18:19:48 wow, lives are cheap where you live, aren't they? Mar 16 18:20:21 DocScrutinizer: the plan is that on less than 15 years there will be no building and/or measurable radiation level left; so far, they're on plan... Mar 16 18:21:42 ironic that my mediaplayer starts faster even on a clean device (out of the box - 9 songs or so) Mar 16 18:22:14 generally dismantling of a nuklear facility with severe contamination (if only of PV, turbines, all the other 'expected' 'hot' items) is significantly more expensive than building the crap Mar 16 18:22:40 MohammadAG: wow... how? Mar 16 18:22:53 MohammadAG: and is that as the first Qt application run since boot? Mar 16 18:23:19 MohammadAG: i call hax Mar 16 18:23:21 BCMM, yes Mar 16 18:23:29 KaKaRoTo, you are here as well? Mar 16 18:23:36 o_O Mar 16 18:23:54 ZogG, obviously... Mar 16 18:23:57 isn't the media player just a bit of glue between mafw and tracker? Mar 16 18:24:00 khertan Mar 16 18:24:02 After playing with #QML for the next Khweeteur version, i ll revert to QWidget. Too slow and use too much memory ! Mar 16 18:24:02 hmm Mar 16 18:24:24 kerio, mafw, only the stock player glues like an idiot to tracker Mar 16 18:24:34 of course you can use 30 tons of C4 and then point at the pile of rocks and say "look, now it's dismantled. Mission accomplished" - this probably actually can be done with a few millions Mar 16 18:24:55 MohammadAG: oh, so that's why yours is better Mar 16 18:24:59 i called it Mar 16 18:25:02 hax! Mar 16 18:25:02 DocScrutinizer: not only that but contamination also lengthens the process Mar 16 18:25:07 pour concrete into the building, and then some, call it dismantled Mar 16 18:25:14 kerio, have fun laughing http://i55.tinypic.com/ot0r5g.jpg Mar 16 18:25:27 DocScrutinizer: which is one of the reasons it might be desirable to release a few radiation before starting the "pour concrete all over the place" plan. Mar 16 18:25:35 good evening Mar 16 18:25:44 tracker is speschul! Mar 16 18:26:03 MohammadAG, lol!? Mar 16 18:26:50 DocScrutinizer: ShadowJK: (C4, concrete) no western country does that, not in the current climate at least ;) Mar 16 18:27:02 china, on the other side... Mar 16 18:27:17 stock player fails at getting info due to heavy dependancies on tracker Mar 16 18:27:43 (randomly of course) Mar 16 18:27:51 heh Mar 16 18:29:02 you can see both are handling mafe (same number of songs, same position) Mar 16 18:30:56 My advice from beginning: implement mediaplayer in a way it works even completely without tracker installed on system. When that's accomplished, ponder how to add in some tracker support that doesn't break things when tracker acts up (what it usually does) Mar 16 18:32:15 mafw works without tracker Mar 16 18:32:23 idk how, but it does Mar 16 18:34:21 Doc <-- speaks the truth Mar 16 18:37:14 for my next fun and exciting task Mar 16 18:37:49 i want the maemo dev tools installed on sabayon which means i'll be using gentoo portage Mar 16 18:38:16 my nets are down again today, glad i got tethering working yesterday; using wvdial Mar 16 18:38:18 if you're talking about scratchbox, this is no fun, it is mostly self contained. Mar 16 18:38:34 *scratchbox1 Mar 16 18:39:29 it looked like a custom scratchbox version that at least isn't supported by sabayon maybe not gentoo either Mar 16 18:40:27 no idea why wvdial works and the gnome networking tools don't but i have something working so i don't care :) Mar 16 18:41:18 "supported"? sb1 even brings its own libc to the table. it needs virtually _nothing_ save a shell from the distro. Mar 16 18:41:25 for one it's dialing a different number, *99***1# instead of *99# Mar 16 18:44:39 http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-192554-galleryV9-pmvt.jpg Mar 16 18:44:53 Behold: #3 at the front, #4 at the back Mar 16 18:44:59 ? Mar 16 18:45:07 i wonder if anybody has ever bombed a running nuclear reactor Mar 16 18:45:37 pupnik:No, not yet Mar 16 18:46:08 Actually, I am wrong, someone has: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Orchard Mar 16 18:51:21 you're still wrong Mar 16 19:11:38 javispedro: sometimes it needs a compiler (if you want to build sb1 yourself..) Mar 16 19:11:50 good point Mar 16 19:11:54 though if you want to built it , Mar 16 19:12:03 last time I had to find debian sarge cds ;) Mar 16 19:12:24 (though afaik this been's improved since hathor release) Mar 16 19:20:26 could someone please tell me that there are a lot of people working on having a working and patched maemo for n810 devices? Mar 16 19:20:35 pleeeese?.... Mar 16 19:20:37 :-( Mar 16 19:21:15 patched for what Mar 16 19:21:22 works Mar 16 19:24:04 well, my N810 says "maemo Linux based OS2008 Version: 5.2008.43-7" - and I always thought it kinda works Mar 16 19:25:34 Aquarina: so yes, if that makes you happy: "~267.000 developers are working on having a working and patched maemo for n810 devices" Mar 16 19:26:49 DocScrutinizer, great! Mar 16 19:27:01 just what I wanted to know Mar 16 19:27:16 now... I don't see much appening on maemo site Mar 16 19:27:29 :-) Mar 16 19:28:11 as far as I know, maemo is very similar to debian except there may be some kernel patches, right? Mar 16 19:28:38 here's what I'm looking for: Mar 16 19:28:46 make my device multiuser Mar 16 19:28:55 export the display Mar 16 19:29:18 configure iptables and have it share internet connection Mar 16 19:29:40 those are the most importante ones Mar 16 19:30:34 (asside from having an enervating bug on gnumeric fixed, which I cannot do) Mar 16 19:30:45 can someone help me on that? Mar 16 19:32:48 oh!... and have it update Mar 16 19:32:54 ! Mar 16 19:35:02 pupnik, sorry, I didn't see your line there Mar 16 19:35:12 patched for security fixes and so on Mar 16 19:35:29 allways "no updates available"! Mar 16 19:35:39 hnm Mar 16 19:35:50 I know: we're so damn good that there are no bugs... Mar 16 19:35:52 :-) Mar 16 19:36:20 not much interest in newer kernels and stuff Mar 16 19:36:31 but if I ssh into it and do an apt-get update; apt-get upgrade.. Mar 16 19:36:51 something wrong happends, which I don't recall anymore Mar 16 19:36:53 wait Mar 16 19:37:33 i think some folks are updating their packages Mar 16 19:38:28 i haven't touched my stuff on Maemo4 in... since Maemo5 :P Mar 16 19:38:53 of course it pretty much worked perfectly by that time, was just working on feature requests Mar 16 19:39:31 hum... Mar 16 19:39:37 just doing it now: Mar 16 19:40:15 signatures could not be verified Mar 16 19:40:22 let's apt-get upgrade Mar 16 19:41:01 x11-common is being kept back Mar 16 19:41:05 why?! Mar 16 19:41:55 well Mar 16 19:42:04 also, how do I update my keychain? Mar 16 19:42:16 if you type "apt-get install x11-common" it will tell you what other packages it depends on that aren't going to be installed for some reason Mar 16 19:42:26 ok Mar 16 19:42:30 let's do that Mar 16 19:42:33 but i wouldn't recommend forcing it Mar 16 19:42:42 because if you say "yes, install this" it will probably break something Mar 16 19:42:56 there's usually some reason it's holding stuff back, and with x11 it's kind of a big one to take chances on :p Mar 16 19:43:02 x11-common: Depends: debianutils (>= 1.13) Mar 16 19:43:30 should I try to install debianutils? Mar 16 19:43:30 apt-cache policy debianutils Mar 16 19:45:05 installed: none; candidate: 2.17 Mar 16 19:45:09 should be ok Mar 16 19:45:48 famous last words Mar 16 19:46:10 soon followed by, why does it not booooooooottttt Mar 16 19:46:31 The following packages have unmet dependencies: Mar 16 19:46:31 debianutils: PreDepends: coreutils (>= 4.5.8-1) Mar 16 19:46:31 PreDepends: mktemp Mar 16 19:46:31 hildon-initscripts: Depends: osso-af-startup but it is not going to be installed Mar 16 19:46:34 :-$ Mar 16 19:47:10 Proteous, are you vaticinating something? Mar 16 19:47:13 :-) Mar 16 19:47:27 er... does "vaticinating" exist? Mar 16 19:47:31 :-$ Mar 16 19:48:44 rm_work, what should I do? think it's dangerous to go ahead and install coreutils and mktemp? Mar 16 19:49:27 probably another reason why they aren't installed Mar 16 19:49:35 vaticinationg? To Vaticinate? Mar 16 19:49:41 the dependency tree in Maemo4 has gotten a bit broken <_< Mar 16 19:49:50 you can try Mar 16 19:49:57 worst case, you have to reflash your device Mar 16 19:50:03 if you're ok with that, go for it Mar 16 19:50:40 Vaticination: n. The act of prophesying. Mar 16 19:50:45 so yeas Mar 16 19:50:46 er, yes Mar 16 19:50:54 er... Mar 16 19:51:01 shoud not update x11? Mar 16 19:51:55 -bash: warning: setlocale: LC_MESSAGES: cannot change locale (en_US.UTF-8): No such file or directory Mar 16 19:52:03 rm_work, I'm ok with that, I've done it, but not now... Mar 16 19:52:07 I need it to work Mar 16 19:52:08 anyone know how to make that go away? Mar 16 19:52:40 so... Mar 16 19:52:47 what should I do? Mar 16 19:53:04 do you guys have yours updated without thar error? Mar 16 19:53:40 1st: how do I update the apt-keys? Mar 16 19:57:09 anyone on how do I get the new keys»? Mar 16 19:57:16 apt-get what?! Mar 16 19:57:36 ~dict Vaticination Mar 16 19:57:39 Dictionary 'Vaticination' (2): knowledge of the future (usually said to be obtained from a divine source) ;; \Va*tic`i*na"tion\, n. [L. vaticinatio.] Prediction; prophecy. [1913 Webster] It is not a false utterance; it is a true, though an impetuous, vaticination. --I. Taylor. [1913 Webster]. Mar 16 20:00:26 oh Proteous devine source: how do I meke my sources.list clean? Mar 16 20:00:58 timeless_xchat: could this somehow be rekated to maemo fubar on true LANG=C, or maybe to your improved translations? Mar 16 20:01:09 related* Mar 16 20:04:05 docScrutinizer : the former, yeah Mar 16 20:04:17 ssh is helpfully forwarding those vars Mar 16 20:04:27 and my destination box has no locales Mar 16 20:07:56 Aquarina: i honestly haven't touched my n800 in like... at least a year Mar 16 20:08:35 Aquarina: i think most of your list of stuff just isn't going to happen, unless you do it yourself, but some of it i don't think is even possible Mar 16 20:09:19 like, making an n810 a multi-user device isn't going to happen, at least not in the UI. you could let more than one person SSH in... but the UI will *always* run as "user" Mar 16 20:09:44 unless you feel like rewriting almost the entirety of the UI, lol Mar 16 20:10:05 did Mer ever work 100% on N810? Mar 16 20:11:59 why would someone want multiple users for a PDA? Mar 16 20:13:14 sorry, had to go take care of dinner Mar 16 20:13:35 * timeless_xchat is eating dinner Mar 16 20:13:50 * mgedmin wouldn't mind a "guest mode" before giving his PDA for someone to play with/check out the UI -- though this doesn't necessarily require multiple users Mar 16 20:13:56 you can take your n900 out to dinner :) Mar 16 20:13:58 timeless_xchat, to hand it to someone, to have your girlfriend use it without messing with your stuff... Mar 16 20:14:07 lots of reasons Mar 16 20:14:22 why would you hide something from your girlfriend? :P Mar 16 20:14:33 aquarina: would this other user be able to install stuff? Mar 16 20:14:47 mgedmin, no? Mar 16 20:15:02 mgedmin, please give me the solution Mar 16 20:15:26 timeless_xchat, not necessarily no Mar 16 20:15:33 wouldn't be root Mar 16 20:15:43 but... Mar 16 20:16:00 so... Mar 16 20:16:05 at least have some other username and home dir Mar 16 20:16:19 out of the box, most data is stored on FAT32 Mar 16 20:16:38 either because it's removable media Mar 16 20:16:51 or because it's designed to plug into a usb host Mar 16 20:16:54 nice idea mgedmin Mar 16 20:17:27 any n800 users online? Mar 16 20:17:35 to actually protect data Mar 16 20:17:41 you'd have to encrypt it Mar 16 20:18:05 on an n8x0, that won't be good for battery life Mar 16 20:18:12 hum... let's go one step at a time Mar 16 20:18:16 nor would it be good for responsiveness Mar 16 20:18:26 I can see that Mar 16 20:18:30 good Mar 16 20:18:37 let's ignore your data Mar 16 20:18:42 and consider settings Mar 16 20:18:46 * SpeedEvil would like a pictbridge gadget too. Mar 16 20:18:57 should a visitor be able to adjust the volume? Mar 16 20:18:57 (for some reason my printer does not like my n900) Mar 16 20:19:06 what about brightness? Mar 16 20:19:07 yes Mar 16 20:19:09 shure Mar 16 20:19:13 why not? Mar 16 20:19:26 the n800 had also a skype client right? Mar 16 20:19:28 Same as with X. Mar 16 20:19:30 desktop applets? Mar 16 20:19:37 blueslee: yes Mar 16 20:19:40 If it locks, you get a 'pick user' screen. Mar 16 20:19:47 how about the clock? Mar 16 20:19:48 maybe I'm being naive, but I'd like to make it mimic a real computer Mar 16 20:19:51 that's all Mar 16 20:20:10 aquarina: real computers don't walk away Mar 16 20:20:21 timeless_xchat: laptops do. Mar 16 20:20:28 and their brains aren't the size of a fingernail Mar 16 20:20:34 timeless_xchat: can you upload your configuration file /etc/skyhost/skypevideocodecs.conf? Mar 16 20:20:35 but they're too heavy to be caring around on a pe lesson Mar 16 20:21:21 or to go running with them, or biking... Mar 16 20:21:39 blueslee : i'd have to walk home and turn one on Mar 16 20:21:49 timeless_xchat: i am trying to get n900 <-> linux pc video call to work Mar 16 20:22:00 anyone else with an n800? Mar 16 20:22:23 BluesLee, n810, but never used skype Mar 16 20:22:45 ok, now... how do I get rid of apt-key errors? Mar 16 20:22:50 Aquarina: was it build in software? Mar 16 20:23:18 Aquarina: can you look up if there is a file /etc/skyhost/skypevideocodecs.conf? Mar 16 20:23:26 sorry?! Mar 16 20:23:41 blueslee : it was a standalone app iirc Mar 16 20:23:42 no Mar 16 20:23:47 there isn't Mar 16 20:23:55 custom, but standalone Mar 16 20:24:26 how do i get a copy of it? Mar 16 20:24:53 public keys are not available Mar 16 20:24:59 timeless_xchat: maybe you can sent me a pn on tmo with the file? Mar 16 20:24:59 how do I get them? Mar 16 20:25:22 i don't do tmo Mar 16 20:25:39 but i'm not even sure what you seek exists Mar 16 20:26:39 timeless_xchat: it exists on my n900 Mar 16 20:28:15 next doubt: how do I export the display to my computer through ssh Mar 16 20:28:40 I did ssh -X .... Mar 16 20:28:46 now... Mar 16 20:28:55 what's the terminal called?! Mar 16 20:29:08 aquarina: s/doubt/question|concern/g Mar 16 20:29:43 /usr/bin/osso-xterm Mar 16 20:29:53 ... you doubt the certainty of a statement Mar 16 20:30:07 when you have a question, you have a question Mar 16 20:30:32 when you are concerned, you have one (or more) concern(s) Mar 16 20:30:43 timeless_xchat, tks Mar 16 20:30:44 ok Mar 16 20:31:08 when in doubt (about the certainty of whether you should use "doubt"), assume you shouldn't Mar 16 20:31:31 sshed into the device with -X option, but nothing apeared on my screen Mar 16 20:32:20 Hello ladies and gents Mar 16 20:32:53 Suggest me best place to ask for replacement part - Lens Glass Cover, for N810 Mar 16 20:32:54 the terminal apears on the device screen Mar 16 20:33:37 Deele: errr, I doubt there is any way tlo get that as a single part Mar 16 20:33:43 aquarina: yeah Mar 16 20:33:50 because most apps cheat Mar 16 20:33:57 they're actually a launcher Mar 16 20:34:02 which talks to a daemon Mar 16 20:34:11 DocScrutinizer, I saw only full front cover, but it costs too much (http://tinyurl.com/6d97j3j) Mar 16 20:34:13 which forks and loads the actual app Mar 16 20:34:25 Deele: even that's amazing Mar 16 20:34:26 omg! Mar 16 20:34:36 you need to use run-standalone or -summoner / -invoker or something Mar 16 20:34:40 google. .. Mar 16 20:34:46 so... what ... Mar 16 20:34:48 ok Mar 16 20:34:58 DocScrutinizer, maybe someone has dead 810, with that part as spare... Mar 16 20:35:08 by the way: what is osso? Mar 16 20:35:11 hildon Mar 16 20:35:14 ? Mar 16 20:35:15 I have only 770 dead :D Mar 16 20:35:25 with that stupid WhiteScreenOfDeath Mar 16 20:35:49 never got my head around what's the mapping betwin that and x server/window manager/... Mar 16 20:35:53 maybe, but I again doubt those individuals would be willing to sell a 0.03g plastic chip Mar 16 20:36:02 lol Mar 16 20:36:23 maybe, they would give it for free :) Mar 16 20:36:24 aquarina: google Mar 16 20:37:00 Deele: I'm even uncertain about whether it can get disassembled from front cover Mar 16 20:37:40 DocScrutinizer, it is sitting on my desk ATM :) I disasembled my nokia, took out that part, made a photo Mar 16 20:37:40 osso was a division Mar 16 20:37:49 hildon was a toolkit Mar 16 20:37:56 a window manager manages windows Mar 16 20:38:15 er... Mar 16 20:38:20 an x server serves x clients. offering drawing primitives and input events Mar 16 20:38:23 Deele: you'd for sure have to buy a complete broken N810 and disassemble yourself. Nobody is going to sell a broken N810 by the plastic chip Mar 16 20:39:14 timeless_xchat, so ildon is what on a desktop computer? gtk? Mar 16 20:39:18 for example? Mar 16 20:39:30 hildon is a gtk derivative Mar 16 20:39:33 (I'm not a programmer, so...) Mar 16 20:39:33 "ebay: button power, plastic, 0.004g. Buy now: 60ct -- also see my other 758 auctions with unique N810 spare parts" LOL Mar 16 20:39:42 gtk is a toolkit Mar 16 20:39:55 ok Mar 16 20:40:00 hildon=gtk Mar 16 20:40:03 hildon is gtk with replacement widget objects for mobile Mar 16 20:40:03 DocScrutinizer, you said something about people not selling such a stuff? :DD I will see that in ebay Mar 16 20:40:14 s/=/~/ Mar 16 20:40:32 Deele: that's been a hoax by me to show how silly that sounds Mar 16 20:40:39 osso=what? Mar 16 20:40:54 the window manager? Mar 16 20:41:12 osso was a division Mar 16 20:41:41 DocScrutinizer, can you give me a link to that item? Mar 16 20:41:48 Deele: that's been a hoax by me to show how silly that sounds Mar 16 20:42:01 http://lmgtfy.com/?q=define%3Adivision Mar 16 20:42:48 open source specialforces Oslo Mar 16 20:42:52 er... what you mean a division? some folks ... Mar 16 20:43:19 hum... Mar 16 20:43:25 DocScrutinizer, lol, I got it now :DD Mar 16 20:43:27 didn't get it Mar 16 20:43:45 Office for Seriously Silly Options Mar 16 20:44:23 Or Some Stupid Otherthing Mar 16 20:44:30 :-D Mar 16 20:44:30 nevermind Mar 16 20:44:33 aquarina: ... Mar 16 20:44:46 a division is generally a group of people Mar 16 20:44:59 I'm still googling for run-standalone Mar 16 20:45:16 tryed it and nothing happened Mar 16 20:45:31 what else was I supose to google?... Mar 16 20:45:31 oddly enough, software is not deus ex nihilo Mar 16 20:45:33 run-standalone.sh Mar 16 20:46:08 I did that Mar 16 20:46:22 the app still didn't show up on my computer Mar 16 20:46:55 x-forward? Mar 16 20:47:04 check your firewall on PC Mar 16 20:47:10 no fw Mar 16 20:47:16 xhost + Mar 16 20:47:22 err Mar 16 20:47:27 use ssh forwarding Mar 16 20:47:33 don't mess with xhost Mar 16 20:47:34 I'm doing it Mar 16 20:47:53 check DISPLAY setting Mar 16 20:48:07 on the device? Mar 16 20:48:49 in your ssh session Mar 16 20:49:37 there's something kinky going on with ssh exporting the wrong DISPLAY on your behalf, or sth along that line - at least I seem to remember such reports Mar 16 20:50:10 display is :0.0 Mar 16 20:50:13 heh Mar 16 20:50:16 generally you don't want to log in as root via ssh, to start&forward X, I'd guess Mar 16 20:50:33 hum... Mar 16 20:50:39 that's probably it Mar 16 20:50:44 let's see... Mar 16 20:52:17 root has no session bus, no session even Mar 16 20:52:31 grr... Mar 16 20:52:38 can't log in as normal user Mar 16 20:53:08 hmm, maybe you want to drop some .ssh/authorized_keys there Mar 16 20:53:13 add an ssh authorized_keys file for user Mar 16 20:54:49 hum... Mar 16 20:54:50 ok Mar 16 20:54:58 I have to go dinner Mar 16 20:55:09 http://wiki.maemo.org/X_forwarding_over_ssh vaguely indicates you want to install xauth Mar 16 20:55:12 tomorrow I'll try that Mar 16 20:55:39 timeless_xchat, and shouldn't I? Mar 16 20:56:03 * timeless_xchat shruga Mar 16 20:56:05 * timeless_xchat shrugs Mar 16 20:56:08 * timeless_xchat would Mar 16 20:56:13 You can cheat. Mar 16 20:56:27 ssh in to n900 Mar 16 20:56:33 sadly the other box i can reach doesn't have x11 Mar 16 20:56:37 ssh out to desktop, with X forwarding Mar 16 20:56:45 run xauth on that Mar 16 20:56:47 ah Mar 16 20:57:07 which makes testing painful :) Mar 16 20:57:40 that I can try now Mar 16 20:58:04 speedevil : but i don't see how that helps Mar 16 20:58:29 I once been told that, I think I tryed it and it didn't work Mar 16 20:59:21 hehe Mar 16 20:59:31 unable to open display "" Mar 16 21:00:30 I'm going to eat a bull Mar 16 21:00:37 thank you Mar 16 21:00:52 tomorrow I'll hammer on this a little bit more Mar 16 21:01:57 do you have a goal? Mar 16 21:02:38 most maemo apps are designed for a fixed screen resolution Mar 16 21:03:23 and by running stuff on your maemo device, you aren't gaining processing power Mar 16 21:03:42 sometimes, it's simpler to use vnc Mar 16 21:03:56 or qemu-arm Mar 16 21:04:41 timeless_xchat, I'd like to have gnumeric exported to my main screen where I could use my keyboard and mouse Mar 16 21:05:06 without having to install a gnumeric instance on my computer Mar 16 21:05:14 just to edit a few files Mar 16 21:05:57 i'd just install gnumeric and use sshfs or scp Mar 16 21:06:01 or use vnc Mar 16 21:06:25 I tryed vnc but it was allways disconecting Mar 16 21:06:29 there's really no good reason to do what you're doing Mar 16 21:06:34 don't know why Mar 16 21:07:19 there's probably no good reason to play guitart Mar 16 21:07:22 ;-) Mar 16 21:07:34 but, believe me Mar 16 21:07:37 in general, x isn't more tolerant than vnc Mar 16 21:07:47 it would realy help me getting my work done Mar 16 21:07:58 and if your xsession is broken, your apps will commit suicide Mar 16 21:08:08 that'd be bad for gnumeric Mar 16 21:08:18 hum... Mar 16 21:08:51 ok Mar 16 21:09:00 see you next day Mar 16 21:09:13 tomorrow or so... Mar 16 21:09:39 and thank you, I know i'm not very easy to understand at times Mar 16 21:09:59 and not very easy to convince Mar 16 21:19:51 is the original nokia case (cp-408) for the n900 recommendable? Mar 16 21:42:34 sq-one: no Mar 16 21:43:00 actually, I don't know Mar 16 21:43:04 CP-408 is not the original NIT case Mar 16 21:58:29 the TSG Mar 16 21:58:32 err Mar 16 22:00:06 TOS Mar 16 22:00:08 TNG Mar 16 22:00:10 DSN Mar 16 22:04:02 hey, I just wanted to try the tacile feedback option from cssu, but nothing changes? (I enabled it in the condif file and installed tactile and killed hildon-desktop / did restart) the rest is working. what exactly is tactile feedback? Mar 16 22:04:22 Proteous, I vote V. Mar 16 22:05:34 nevermind. it is working Mar 16 22:14:08 V, pfffff Mar 16 22:34:55 Mar 16 22:35:07 what's up with elections? Mar 16 22:35:44 canceled due to lack of public interest? Mar 16 22:36:57 hmm well isn't the council there to manage maemo/nokia relations from community side Mar 16 22:39:51 again - ok, seems elections are obsolete ;-P Mar 16 22:40:16 http://maemo.org/community/council/the_maemo_community_council_candidates-and_possibly_the_newly_elected-are_in/ Mar 16 22:40:29 prolly I should change topic, uh? Mar 16 22:42:07 we need an age filter on tmo. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=969208 good grief. Mar 16 22:44:15 i think it's a joke Mar 16 22:44:15 HTF to add tags to such an awesome thread?!!!!?!?!?!!!!one!!11!eleven Mar 16 22:44:57 pupnik: it's for sure a joke, questionable if it's an intentional one Mar 16 22:47:01 OMG! Posts:3, Thanks:1 , I'm seriously temped to find out about that post that earned that thanks Mar 16 22:47:24 ME!!!11!!! Mar 16 22:47:32 +H Mar 16 22:47:57 + Mar 16 22:47:59 "The most commonly accepted value for the risk is that the increased risk of cancer is 4 percent per Sievert." Mar 16 22:48:02 poor workers Mar 16 22:48:23 errwut? Mar 16 22:49:05 ok, so just try to get to 16%, this will stop all cancer rather short term Mar 16 22:49:30 lol Mar 16 22:49:46 make that 20% if you're not SM Mar 16 22:49:52 yes radiation above a certain level will also kill the cancer cells :) Mar 16 22:50:22 5Sv considered immediately lethal (few hours) Mar 16 22:50:51 <2Sv you got chances to survivie Mar 16 22:51:56 until you die from those 8% probability cancer Mar 16 22:52:27 some 10 years later Mar 16 22:52:44 * pupnik is sad about cancer Mar 16 22:53:33 pupnik: honestly that quote above is nonsense or at very least meaningless Mar 16 22:53:40 http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=fukushima-workers Mar 16 22:56:51 I heard from a friend who's UK and a carpenter that in USA carpenters work to a precision of 5mm, for anything better than that you need special experts. So let me guess about the scientific part in scientificamerican Mar 16 22:59:30 oh, sorry, I bet he said 0.2" Mar 16 23:00:05 which of course sounds way better :-P Mar 16 23:01:31 sorry again, probably 1/4" is the correct metrics Mar 16 23:02:36 DocScrutinizer: I point you to http://www.youtube.com/user/Matthiaswandel Mar 16 23:02:41 Oh - he's canadian. Mar 16 23:03:50 I want to make his screw advance box joint jig. Mar 16 23:04:02 (probably with a stepperthough, not fancy gears) Mar 16 23:08:07 when you are building a house you don't need 1 micron percision... Mar 16 23:11:08 1 micron and 5mm are a long way apart though, and houses generally do want far better than 5mm precision. Mar 16 23:11:25 It depends. Mar 16 23:11:31 They really don't in many cases. Mar 16 23:11:42 I for one would be thoroughly pissed if any of the woodwork in my place was out of line by half a cm Mar 16 23:11:47 For example, timber will move around 1% of its length. Mar 16 23:11:53 Due to changes in humidity Mar 16 23:16:51 SpeedEvil: depending on the wood! Mar 16 23:17:09 SpeedEvil: metal will do similar, but due to temprature changes Mar 16 23:21:27 orlok: True. It's a lot more predictable though. Mar 16 23:22:17 SpeedEvil: yeah.. its interesting to see how some telescope components are made out of wood in some scopes Mar 16 23:22:29 usually the tripod legs to lower vibration Mar 16 23:22:48 1mm/m for 25C delta for steel Mar 16 23:22:48 ish Mar 16 23:23:17 ahha Mar 16 23:24:10 SpeedEvil: Enough to knock a telescope out of focus! Mar 16 23:24:14 Indeed. Mar 16 23:24:43 * SpeedEvil wishes he'd gtten his inflatable telescope done Mar 16 23:24:58 SpeedEvil: especially when you consider they often get moved from inside to outside.. but they need to reach equilibrium with the outside air to prevent air currents disturbing the view Mar 16 23:25:05 yeah Mar 16 23:25:26 (carbon fibre cords held under tension by inflated structure) Mar 16 23:28:04 SpeedEvil: Heh, mirror or refractor? Mar 16 23:28:14 mirror i guess Mar 16 23:28:28 the optics are the pain Mar 16 23:29:12 orlok: mirror, yes. Mar 16 23:29:22 Geometry is fun too. Mar 16 23:29:45 * SpeedEvil wishes they'd have built OWL. Mar 16 23:30:11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overwhelmingly_Large_Telescope Mar 16 23:34:54 cool SpeedEvil Mar 16 23:35:55 that telescope would cost 1 week's warmongering in Afghanistan Mar 16 23:37:16 could build a field of 100 such telescopes with 2 years of the cost Mar 16 23:38:04 btw why can't we build big fields of small telescopes? Mar 16 23:38:50 pupnik: Inteferometers are hard. Mar 16 23:39:32 And the sparse array fallacy (orr something like that) means that a sparsely filled apature is not equivalent to a filled apature. Mar 16 23:40:11 that's enough of an answer for me, thanks Mar 16 23:40:12 You have to do the combination by optical means - you can't do it with electronics. Mar 16 23:40:16 This makes it really hard. Mar 16 23:40:46 yeah longer wavelengths are more doable, right? Mar 16 23:41:35 pupnik: In brief - if you take a bit of foil, and poke several holes in it with a needle, and look through it, you can see better than one needle-hole, but it's very different from a clear apature. Mar 16 23:41:46 Where longer wavelengrths = microwave. Mar 16 23:42:34 1.5 billion to be able to see other planets Mar 16 23:43:03 or 7 billion to beat up tribesmen in the hindu-kush mountains Mar 16 23:43:23 for a month Mar 16 23:47:31 DocScrutinizer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fNJWkZL_cp0#t=1315s - voice over GSM Mar 16 23:48:13 voice over GSM? incredible :-D Mar 16 23:48:56 is that like voice over copper? Mar 16 23:49:00 Err Mar 16 23:49:04 or voice over string? Mar 16 23:49:21 encrypted data - over GSM - and thatr data happens to be voice Mar 16 23:51:33 voice over smoke signals, multicast FTW Mar 16 23:52:21 * ShadowJK gets TV over multicast Mar 16 23:52:33 the above is actually pointful if you want enncrypted voice that can't be snooped. Mar 16 23:52:53 how is the key exchange done? Mar 16 23:53:25 I found it also fun the recent work that you can - with variab le rate codecs - fingerprint what's being said though it's tunneled. Mar 16 23:53:42 Proteous: Inmany ways that's irrelevant - diffle-heimen. Mar 16 23:53:47 Or however it's spelled. Mar 16 23:53:52 :P Mar 16 23:53:58 Once you've got the data channel, encryptionbecomes boring. Mar 16 23:54:20 if you are worried about nnot being sniffed then the details are very important :P Mar 16 23:54:30 True. Mar 16 23:54:39 forget about voice, it is obsolete Mar 16 23:54:40 But key negotiation is well known. Mar 16 23:54:52 sure, in theory Mar 16 23:54:58 but the devil is in the implementation Mar 16 23:55:01 Sure. Mar 16 23:55:10 One-time-pads are the nuclear option. Mar 16 23:55:19 heh Mar 17 00:01:52 too long. Is there a transcript? Mar 17 00:03:03 Yeah - autotranscripts'd be nice Mar 17 00:09:44 Yes, I found a java developer! Mar 17 00:10:27 I think to develop java, you dip it in concentrated hot lye for 5 minutes. Mar 17 00:16:31 SpeedEvil: what are they doing? custom GSM-codec, or specially designed vocoder to transmit 2400bd as "speech"? Mar 17 00:17:07 the latter Mar 17 00:17:15 I haven't watched it properly yet eitehr. Mar 17 00:17:18 or do they simply ship around the bandwidth problem by avoiding realtime? Mar 17 00:17:58 It's realtime I think - I need to watch it though Mar 17 00:21:12 2400 baud is certainly possible with newer speech codecs. Mar 17 00:27:08 2400 for sure is enough for legible speech transmission Mar 17 00:28:12 a vocoder squeezing 2400 thru a GSM-codec that's by itself working at 9600 is a quite nifty piece of software though Mar 17 00:28:23 i guess if you optimize it for one speaker speaking one language.. :) Mar 17 00:28:54 If you could do reliable speaker-independant voice recongnition, that would make it awesome. Mar 17 00:28:54 nah, iLBC should work with 2400 Mar 17 00:29:13 It'll sound terrible, though. Mar 17 00:29:18 You want something like AMBE or codec2. Mar 17 00:29:39 Sometimes you don't really care if it sounds terrible. Mar 17 00:29:49 Just that the NSA/... can't read it. Mar 17 00:30:05 Well, AMBE/codec2 aren't going to sound beautiful. Mar 17 00:30:13 But they'll sound a gekk of a lot better than iLBC. Mar 17 00:42:53 yeah, there's a new better codec every other week Mar 17 00:45:46 the 2400 figure is straight from my a... though. I have nfi how difficult it is to tailor a vocoder to exploit maximum possible bandwidth of the GSM voice->data coding process, how much redundancy you need to cope with errors on the medium, like companders, echo cancellation, klick and hum, and whatnot else Mar 17 00:47:37 best vocoder is a cherokee with a code book ;-P Mar 17 00:48:57 while we europeand use danish people for that purpose# Mar 17 00:49:27 ct Mar 17 00:49:48 oops wrong keyboard .. but that was only the login not the password :P Mar 17 00:55:45 DocScrutinizer: AMBE's been around since the 90's, at lest. Mar 17 00:55:47 *least Mar 17 01:06:03 Fucking shit! I almost threw my N900 against the wall. Mar 17 01:07:02 * SpeedEvil has done that. Mar 17 01:07:05 Twice, in fact. Mar 17 01:07:16 Getting out of bed, and it being in the blankets. Mar 17 01:07:23 mine dropped onto the asphalt street while biking recently Mar 17 01:07:45 I'm glad I've got the case on it, it absorbs a little of the shock. Mar 17 01:07:48 luckily in my self-build cover .. no scratch, no dent :) Mar 17 01:08:15 I was writting this long elaborated post on a forum with microB, then the "battery low" banner popped so i pulled the charger cable and plugged it in, it said charging so i went back to writting, next thing i know another banner pops saying "recharge the battery" and the fucking thing shuts down Mar 17 01:08:32 TiagoTiago: :/ Mar 17 01:08:35 Forums-- Mar 17 01:10:05 hehe i have a cheap alternative charger .. it should provide 800ma .. but i doubt that sometimes when listening to music the battery drains Mar 17 01:10:18 (on USB it still charges) Mar 17 01:11:00 is there an extension for microB like Lazarus for Firefox that keeps fresh backups of unsent webform contents? Mar 17 01:11:25 I'm using the wallcharger that came with it Mar 17 01:11:57 i use that at home .. but in my workshop i use the other one Mar 17 01:12:20 I'm using the wallcharger that came with it Mar 17 01:12:33 cehteh: D+- short missing Mar 17 01:13:20 DocScrutinizer: its explicitly rated for the n900 .. well i may figure that out Mar 17 01:13:33 meh Mar 17 01:13:44 Is there a way to read the current properties of the juice coming from the charger while plugged? Mar 17 01:13:49 but without d+- shortened and without power acknowleding it shouldnt charge at all .. or at least at very low rate Mar 17 01:13:59 rated for... and certified I assume, by "our world leading expert" Mar 17 01:15:05 well without d shortened how much power will it draw? by usb spec it cant draw more than 30mA or so (everything more has to be acknowledged with the host .. up to 500ma) Mar 17 01:15:10 Like that stereo bt headset from Nokia that is sweatproof but fries after just a couple of laps 'round the block? Mar 17 01:15:10 cat `find /sys -name charger` Mar 17 01:17:13 of course you might have picked a fubar charger that has a foldback OC-prot which switches off the output on overload until you remove the load Mar 17 01:17:55 brb Mar 17 01:18:02 cat `find /sys -name charger` Mar 17 01:18:02 0 Mar 17 01:18:04 heh Mar 17 01:18:05 USB compliant chargers should simply reduce output voltage until current is within limits Mar 17 01:18:18 cehteh: == no D+- Mar 17 01:18:25 tiagotiago: i'd suggest using for text fields and copying back to microb when you're ready Mar 17 01:18:30 notes autosaves Mar 17 01:18:30 this is on a usb port Mar 17 01:18:39 :-P Mar 17 01:18:41 and generally is less likely to crash Mar 17 01:18:44 can you read the charge current somewhere? Mar 17 01:18:47 lshal ... Mar 17 01:19:11 doesnt give it Mar 17 01:19:17 charge? Mar 17 01:19:36 battery.reporting.current = 881 (0x371) (int) Mar 17 01:19:36 battery.reporting.design = 1247 (0x4df) (int) Mar 17 01:19:37 battery.reporting.last_full = 880 (0x370) (int) Mar 17 01:19:43 mhm need a new battery anyways Mar 17 01:19:49 charge current is from bq27200.sh, but that's not equal to USB current Mar 17 01:20:24 cehteh: forget hal, it tells the lies bme has spread Mar 17 01:20:46 well the battery doesnt feel healthy anyways... Mar 17 01:21:17 its sometimes empty after a few hours of moderate or now use of the device Mar 17 01:21:21 hmm, so feed it some medicine Mar 17 01:21:31 replace it i'd say :) Mar 17 01:21:55 the answer to all this is bq27200.sh Mar 17 01:22:09 where is that available? Mar 17 01:22:13 meh Mar 17 01:22:46 http://enivax.net/jk/n900/ Mar 17 01:22:49 that line you gave me returns just the number 1, nothing like amperage, voltage nor anything Mar 17 01:23:20 wait, did i miss anything while i was restarting x-Chat? Mar 17 01:23:41 yes, THE ANSWER Mar 17 01:23:55 :( Mar 17 01:24:10 :( Mar 17 01:24:28 I said "brb" :( Mar 17 01:25:51 see /topic. For your relief there's a link called "chanlog:" Mar 17 01:26:33 ok Mar 17 01:28:17 but the answer is a magic spell that can't get logged in any chanlogs Mar 17 01:28:27 THE ANSWER Mar 17 01:28:53 also most clients won't display it Mar 17 01:29:31 odds are it went completely unnoticed, others might just see Mar 17 01:29:33 42 Mar 17 01:31:37 ok, notes, good idea Mar 17 01:33:08 what about reading the current properties of the chager juice? Where do i find that battery.reporting.current thing? Mar 17 01:34:25 please rephrase Mar 17 01:34:52 ah, nvm, lshal | grep battery Mar 17 01:35:18 oh, you're interested in lies and BS? Mar 17 01:35:43 the answer to all this is bq27200.sh Mar 17 01:35:49 :P Mar 17 01:36:04 cehteh: and, isn't it the truth? Mar 17 01:36:18 dunno if its the truth but looks better Mar 17 01:36:49 while some 'legend' about the abbrevitations or some -h flag for human readable might be useful Mar 17 01:36:58 (maybe i shall look at that script) Mar 17 01:37:50 uhm .. since 2.6.38 my terminals under x behave strangely .. both xterm and rxvt Mar 17 01:37:59 Wait, is that the status of the battery or the properties of the juice flowing thru the usb port? Mar 17 01:39:12 mhm maybe its my windowmanager Mar 17 01:40:46 interesing are TimeToFull(min), TimeToEmpty(min), RSOC/CSOC=%charge, NAC=capacity(mAh), CACD,CACT=corrected values of NAC, for current/temperature Mar 17 01:42:59 especially important: CI:0 (Calculation Invalid) Mar 17 01:43:21 what should those read if the charger juice is flowing as it should? Mar 17 01:43:33 which those? Mar 17 01:44:20 the values bq and/or reports that are relevant to juice health Mar 17 01:44:38 sorry, doesn't parse Mar 17 01:45:47 I asked how to read the current properties of the juice comming in thru the USB port and you suggested lshal and that bq script Mar 17 01:45:59 I did not Mar 17 01:46:16 I'm confused Mar 17 01:46:44 there is no way to measure the current drawn from USB Mar 17 01:46:51 directly Mar 17 01:48:09 How does it know when there is not enough juice coming in like when doing heavy stuff while plugged to a PC? Mar 17 01:48:13 you can measure the current flowing to/from battery, with `bq27200.sh 5` and compare the mA reading for USB plugged/unplugged. They will roughly differ the size of current fed to system from USB Mar 17 01:49:10 not enough current (my jiuce is in the fridge!) == batery current is discharging battery, not charging it Mar 17 01:50:44 Oh. Mar 17 01:50:47 So it can tell the amount of current flowing to/from the battery and which way it is flowing? Mar 17 01:50:54 One random point on 'my USB is broken' Mar 17 01:51:09 Random objects can get into your USB port Mar 17 01:51:10 TiagoTiago: yes, that's what bq27200(.sh) is for Mar 17 01:51:31 The otehr day I picked a sliver of wood out, which was preventing the plug seating properly. Mar 17 01:51:52 hehe, known issue Mar 17 01:51:53 Just current or voltage too? Mar 17 01:52:10 TiagoTiago: just look at it? Mar 17 01:52:21 k Mar 17 01:53:36 the voltage value doesn't go negative, what gives? Mar 17 01:53:38 or study this: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/jrbme/bme_chargefloat_log Mar 17 01:54:21 TiagoTiago: your sentences always decode like googletranslates of chinese Mar 17 01:54:34 really? Mar 17 01:55:51 well, not actually, you at least use correct punctuation marks like ? after what Mar 17 01:56:05 There is a mV in that loop mode report, but unlike the mA its value doesn't go negative when i pull the charger plug out Mar 17 01:56:40 well, that's the voltage of battery. Do you really expect it to reverse polarity? Mar 17 01:56:43 What is the explanation for that? Mar 17 01:57:29 i thought it was of the flow between the device and battery Mar 17 01:57:39 No. mV is the battery voltage Mar 17 01:57:43 voltage of the flow?? Mar 17 01:57:44 It's always positive. Mar 17 01:58:05 flow is Ampere, it has no voltage Mar 17 01:58:06 * SpeedEvil drops Mr Ampere on TiagoTiago Mar 17 01:58:54 I thought that when electricity went the opposite way the numbers would be negated Mar 17 01:59:44 I made up my mind, it sounds japanese. "we stopped pump fill sea water on PV. Why pressure in PV it is positive?" Mar 17 02:00:57 Watts = Volts * Amps , Watts stay positive regardless of the direction of the flow, so Amps and Volts need to always have the same sign Mar 17 02:01:12 BS Mar 17 02:02:11 Are you saying people do use negative watts when talking about electricity? Mar 17 02:02:18 sure Mar 17 02:03:53 a water power plant delivers 5MW with water coming down from upper pond. To pump water back up during nighttime you of course can speak of negative Watts that the power plant's trubines EAT instead of delivering it Mar 17 02:05:00 pretty identical situation on battery charging or depleting Mar 17 02:05:34 What is the difference between 3V -10mA and -3V 10mA ? Mar 17 02:05:49 honestly, this is so silly I'm not sure if it's really nifty trolling Mar 17 02:07:08 TiagoTiago: one difference would be reversed polarity => fried device? Mar 17 02:07:17 No, i'm really trying to understand how things really work since i my previious understanding is being contradicted Mar 17 02:07:52 How are those two things not the same thing? Mar 17 02:09:22 I always thought Watts was an absolute value, a scalar, but now you're saying it can be negative... Mar 17 02:09:25 voltage and current aren't the same thing, for starters Mar 17 02:10:51 watts is measured in a particular direction, just like current... if the energy flows in the opposite direction, it becomes negative Mar 17 02:10:51 while Voltage is like pressure (of a tank e.g), current is the flow of some medium (e.g. in / out of a pipe to that tank) Mar 17 02:10:53 Are you saying that if someone wires one of those wall adapters that measure power consumption backwards it will read megative watts being consumed? Mar 17 02:11:44 TiagoTiago: in theory, it should. Mar 17 02:12:53 Voltage=force, current=volume/distance Mar 17 02:12:54 of course the electronics may not be designed for that... Mar 17 02:13:13 Voltage=force, current=volume/distance per time unit Mar 17 02:14:17 TiagoTiago: if you have a solar panel on your roof and pump electricity *into* the power grid instead of out, you get negative watt consumption and the power company pays you, if they allow that kind of thing Mar 17 02:14:21 Voltage is like pressure difference, Amperage is like flowrate; how is it possible for it to flow backwards accross the pressure gradient? Mar 17 02:14:22 if you got a garden hose, the voltage is the pressure in PSI/ATM, and the current is the liters/s that are running thru it Mar 17 02:15:11 you're never using the same to trstpoints for current and voltage probing Mar 17 02:15:51 voltage of a battery is between + and - contact. current is from one of those thru your amperemeter to the consuming circuit Mar 17 02:16:05 same two Mar 17 02:16:12 fsck Mar 17 02:16:28 you're never using the same two trestpoints for current and voltage probing Mar 17 02:16:41 fail *sigh* Mar 17 02:16:45 TiagoTiago: I think you just need an even higher voltage from the charger, then the current will flow into the battery without changing the battery's voltage Mar 17 02:18:59 volzage is like pressure difference (I got 1024 mBar here, pressure difference between athmosphere and that vacuum part of the mercury glass tube), how comes there's still water flowing OUT of the tap? Mar 17 02:20:10 simple answer: pressure of water in the pipe is even higher than those 1024mBar Mar 17 02:20:33 Ok, consider two water boxes connected by a hose at the bottom, if the two boxes are on the same level Voltage and Amperage are at zero, now if you raise box A, or manually put more water in it, or activate a pump the hose is going thru so that it pumps water to box B, Voltage and Amperage are positive ( we will keep using box A as reference), if you do it the other way around V and A would be negative; how the hell would make one be posit Mar 17 02:20:33 ive but the other negative? Mar 17 02:22:19 both boxes have positive Voltage/pressure, you easily can test when you drill a hole into bottom: water comes out with the pressure of that particular box Mar 17 02:22:52 Not relative to each other Mar 17 02:23:09 just when you fill in water in one, then the pressure is higher than in the other, so there's a "voltage" across your tube Mar 17 02:23:19 TiagoTiago: the battery voltage is the pressure difference between the top and bottom of *one* box, say B, not the pressure difference between box A and B... easy Mar 17 02:23:32 TiagoTiago: then the voltage is always positive, regardless of current Mar 17 02:24:24 TiagoTiago: then if you're discharging, box A is lower, if you're charging, box A is higher Mar 17 02:25:13 the battery voltage will depend on how much water is in box B, but not the direction of the flow Mar 17 02:27:48 [2011-03-17 03:13:19] voltage of a battery is between + and - contact. current is from one of those thru your amperemeter to the consuming circuit Mar 17 02:27:57 yep Mar 17 02:28:15 [2011-03-17 03:13:57] you're never using the same two trestpoints for current and voltage probing Mar 17 02:29:10 (except if you're interested how much voltage drop error your Amperemeter introduces to the circuit under test) Mar 17 02:30:19 ideally there is NO voltage along wires "piping" current to somewhere, and of course also not along/acros the Amperemeter Mar 17 02:30:41 real world is rarely ideal (except with supraconductors) Mar 17 02:31:06 but for a basic understanding of physics you better assume it was, first approach Mar 17 02:32:21 pretty much same way you assume the water pressure in your tapwater pipe is same before and after meter Mar 17 02:33:50 the meter is counting the current. Well actually it integrates the current over time, and reads a volume spent Mar 17 02:34:18 you can tell the current by watching how fast the dials spin Mar 17 02:34:31 that's Ampere Mar 17 02:35:47 the pressure might be high at nighttime, and rather low when every neighbour waters their lawn. But usually it doesn't become negative (as pressure of a battery never does) Mar 17 02:36:59 still you might decide to pump water *into* your tap, by using a pump that has higher pressure than that found inside the pipe Mar 17 02:37:32 (beware, your neighbours probably will call homeland security!) Mar 17 02:42:12 tough, if you got a wate tank on top of your roof, you for sure will pump water up (charge), and also water will come down again and flow out your tap (discharge). The pressure is the voltage, the liters/min is the current (Ampere) Mar 17 02:42:54 looks like he got disconnected again Mar 17 02:43:24 sorry, the system locked up, lemme check the log to catch up Mar 17 02:44:51 meh, too bad. Was about to elaborate about Spain where everybody got such a watertank on their roof, as central water supply is shaky. And "not enough power to charge" means the water flowing into N900 via USB is not as much as that you draw from the tap in the AV-receptacke... errr Mar 17 02:46:05 s/draw/draft/? Mar 17 02:46:31 So the voltage is the voltage of one thing, while the current is the current of somthing else? Mar 17 02:46:44 basically yes Mar 17 02:47:22 Why do they do it like that? Mar 17 02:47:41 because there's no other meaningful way to do it Mar 17 02:47:58 TiagoTiago: it's not physically possible to measure voltage and current on exactly the same thing... as said, voltage and current is different Mar 17 02:48:36 So it's like they put a pressure gage on the pipe but use a waterwheel under the faucet to measure current flow? Mar 17 02:48:53 voltage is always between two points. current is not, it can be measured in a single point Mar 17 02:49:07 TiagoTiago: I STRICTLY DISCOURRAGE to try and probe the Ampere found in a wall mains outlet. You can probe the Volt though Mar 17 02:50:32 It's like measuring windspeed instead of the motion of the air atoms and molecules? Mar 17 02:51:07 checking Ampere of a mains outlet is like bucket-measuring how many liters of water are in your waterpipe Mar 17 02:51:54 depending on diameter of pipe this will become a rather unpleasant experience Mar 17 02:52:38 fzzt! Mar 17 02:53:00 like villager said. Current is the number of electrons passing by at ONE point / second. While Voltage is the difference of electron pressure between TWO points Mar 17 02:53:18 Usually you would measure how much current is flowing without makeing the current flow, like placing a waterwheel in a river instead of blasting open a riverbank Mar 17 02:53:21 the ideal amperemeter is basically a shortcircuit, so a real bad idea to try on your power outlet Mar 17 02:53:32 doc: you probably wnted 'drew' (also available in other cases is 'drawn') Mar 17 02:54:11 I thought you could measure Amps with some circuit sitting between the source and the device consuming the electricity.... Mar 17 02:54:41 yes, you can Mar 17 02:54:59 TiagoTiago: yes, and ideally that device has no resistance (which is why I said shortcircuit) Mar 17 02:55:07 s/wnted/wanted/ Mar 17 02:55:09 timeless_w7ip meant: doc: you probably wanted 'drew' (also available in other cases is 'drawn') Mar 17 02:55:17 and that is the same way you could measure the Volts "entering" the device's circuit Mar 17 02:55:27 but that's because of the way this equipment works. You also can test the magnetic field around one point of a wire, and that'S a very convenient way to probe current Mar 17 02:55:48 TiagoTiago: the ideal voltmeter has infinite resistance, *no* current passes through it Mar 17 02:56:15 like no water flows out a PSI meter Mar 17 02:56:17 but if you already got your voltmeter there why not use the same input and output for measuring current flow? Mar 17 02:56:51 you cannot mix the two without disrupting the circuit Mar 17 02:57:27 even if the two are in parallel or being switched from one to the other and back very fast? Mar 17 02:57:34 you can't plumb a water volume meter to the PSI-meter stub Mar 17 02:58:38 and it would not be useful in any case, the current flowing through your voltmeter is not the current you want to measure, which is probably the current through the *rest* of the circuit Mar 17 02:58:57 exactly Mar 17 02:59:53 and you wouldn't want to cut the current to the rest of the circuit by inserting a virtually infinite resistance voltmeter at the point where your Amperemeter was **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Mar 17 02:59:57 2011