**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Mar 23 02:59:57 2011 Mar 23 03:15:10 Hello Mar 23 03:16:34 was just wondering on the n810, what are the /dev/mtdblock[12345] and why only mtdblock4 is used (as i can see, for the internal 256mb?) Mar 23 03:17:31 delt: they are all used Mar 23 03:17:52 one is the bootloader, one is kernel, one is initfs, one is rootfs, and I forget the last Mar 23 03:18:02 maybe CAL data Mar 23 03:18:51 whoa... ok thanks for the info =) Mar 23 03:20:18 so that means if i have backup images of each of those, i can put back the bootloader, or the kernel, etc. to its previous state without screwing around with the rest of the partitions, right? Mar 23 03:21:18 so, let's see what we can see..... Mar 23 03:27:39 ... does anyone remember the name of that package that changes the "two rectangles" button for a mac osx style window switcher? Mar 23 03:27:48 (on the n810) Mar 23 03:29:23 thought it was something simple, a word that begins with "T", but it aint there... =( Mar 23 03:30:14 Ah, TELESCOPE got it :D sorry for bothering Mar 23 03:33:30 pupnik_: yeah, service downtime - at least that's what I gather from time-of-day and duration, and regular connection teardown Mar 23 03:36:24 delt: see /proc/mtd - and don't get fooled, you can't write to those partitions, as they have no proper filesystem that'd help to deal with bad blocks on the phy img Mar 23 03:38:09 (proc/mts isn't confirmed to apply for N810, got that from N900) Mar 23 03:38:22 mtd even Mar 23 03:39:09 well, now it's confirmed :-D Mar 23 03:39:43 DocScrutinizer: thanks for the info. (that can be expected with /proc /sys type filesystems:) Mar 23 03:40:47 NB on N810 the initfs partition actually is used for exactly that. Not like N900 where it's unused Mar 23 03:43:53 so 0 1 2 3 4 are: bootloader, config, kernel, initfs, rootfs Mar 23 03:44:27 which explains why only mtdblock4 shows up under 'df' or 'mount' Mar 23 03:45:00 (...and me wonders why not even the uBoot devels made use of that partition - it looks like it's mad useful to improve the situation along cramming uBoot into kernel partition and uBoot not allowing to configure and store ENV in a usual way) Mar 23 03:46:05 one thing that made me go "wtf" ... was why the default root fs (256mb) doesn't even have support for ext2/3 fs Mar 23 03:46:14 * DocScrutinizer needs to poke mrmoku about that Mar 23 03:46:58 delt: it's a special fs that deals with nand bad blocks etc Mar 23 03:47:13 which ext* can't do Mar 23 03:47:26 It's not a block device. Also, ubifs would perform vastly better on the 32g emmc compared to ext3, if ubifs could run on block devices Mar 23 03:47:28 "nand" as in the logical/boolean operation used with flash memory? Mar 23 03:47:40 nand flash, yes Mar 23 03:48:05 NAND flash storage technology, yes Mar 23 03:48:27 NAND is alowed to have bad blocks, unlike NOR Mar 23 03:49:36 for the oneNAND used in OMAP afaik only first 2 erase pages are guaranteed to always be ok - the rest is up to your fs to deal with bad "blocks" Mar 23 03:49:38 so /dev/mtd[012345] and mtd[012345]ro are crw-rw---- root,root and /dev/mtdblock[01234] (no block5) are brw-rw---- root,disk Mar 23 03:49:48 .... all dated 31.dec.1969 :? Mar 23 03:50:39 ..or is ls on this thing also a symlink to this 'busybox' thing .... Mar 23 03:50:51 It's not just bad block remapping, ubifs has direct control over erase blocks, and can partially write to blocks and keep them open. The emmc looks like a block device, and has minimal ability to keep track of the state of the underlying nand flash, which results in a small write of 4k triggering a 256k read-modify-write cycle.. Mar 23 03:51:10 there's been a badblocks virtual node somewhere that made for a nice competition here some time ago Mar 23 03:51:29 "how few bad block does your N900 have?" Mar 23 03:52:06 NB bad blocks can appear out of thin air during every write to NAND Mar 23 03:52:06 hahaha Mar 23 03:52:36 so not even writing back the phy img of your own device is considered 100% safe Mar 23 03:52:44 "how many still usable blocks does YOUR n* have?" Mar 23 03:52:45 emmc on the other hand just blows up and stops working one day :-) Mar 23 03:53:20 i say we use good old tape drives on these. much more reliable Mar 23 03:53:30 after noticably shrinking in size prior to that point of failure Mar 23 03:53:33 like in the 70's. :D Mar 23 03:53:51 tape drives have similar random access write performance as ext3 on emmc flash :-) Mar 23 03:54:11 DocScrutinizer, emmc doesn't shrink Mar 23 03:55:17 if you put it in the dryer yes it does Mar 23 03:55:38 say you forget it in your pocket... then you do some laundry Mar 23 03:55:51 You could make it shrink, but it's often destructive, and always requires use of proprietary vendor tools :/ (and these things are usually so buggy anywway that once they've run out of spares they never recover sufficiently to communicate with again) Mar 23 03:55:52 ShadowJK: hmm, maybe. Not sure Mar 23 03:56:51 what's been the friggin name of that badblock node? Mar 23 03:57:16 * DocScrutinizer curses that ... errr. alzheimer was the name? Mar 23 03:58:01 find /proc/ /sys -name '*bad*' didn't really help Mar 23 03:58:05 i think it's "badblock node" but that may be a misnomer Mar 23 03:58:52 dev/ ?? Mar 23 03:59:15 I've killed a few mmc/sd, and I've observed 3 kinds of failure behaviour: a) silent. Card reports no error, data is read back corrupted. Thanks to wear leveling, corrupting sectors of data constantly move. b) Working until accessing group containing bad sector, then card returns IO error for ALL sectors. c) Total hang requiring powercycling after touching damaged block/area Mar 23 03:59:25 um, if it was in /dev that means there would be just one for all mounted filesystems? Mar 23 04:00:12 or am i completely retarded (which is more probable) Mar 23 04:00:45 * DocScrutinizer ponders to nag pov.it to grep it out of chanlogs Mar 23 04:00:57 prolly a bad idea Mar 23 04:01:57 ShadowJK: please help me out, it's driving me nervous Mar 23 04:02:19 I don't at all remember such a thing Mar 23 04:02:28 *sigh* just rebooted the n810 and forgot to unmount the (auto-mounted) partitions first :/ Mar 23 04:02:44 though on boot you see the badblocks-out-of-factory iirc Mar 23 04:03:50 btw, http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/simona/fast10-flash.pdf Mar 23 04:04:12 "From your brand new 512GB SATA hard disk, at least 37MB are valid after 0 days, 0 hours, and 14:37 minutes of use." Mar 23 04:04:20 They didn't observe same failure modes as I have, but the failure modes they saw were nasty too Mar 23 04:06:39 meh, so I did it, max out CPU at pov.it Mar 23 04:07:23 pov.it is that an impulse tracker module or a domain name in italy? Mar 23 04:08:30 see /topic Mar 23 04:11:14 probably more disk than cpu... :) Mar 23 04:17:15 anyway, thanks for the info guys. cheers :D Mar 23 04:20:09 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NAND_bad_blocks#Bad_Blocks but meh Mar 23 04:29:17 bad blocks? Mar 23 04:29:28 all nands have bad blocks. :) my wii has some Mar 23 04:29:36 yeah Mar 23 04:29:56 but what's the proper way to list the number of bad blocks from linux? Mar 23 04:30:50 obviously the linux NAND driver has a copy of BBT Mar 23 04:31:10 so I'm sure shares some statistics about it *somewhere* Mar 23 04:32:13 * DocScrutinizer starts to wonder if that bad block contest was on #openmoko Mar 23 04:33:54 wonder if the debugfs stuff exposes that Mar 23 04:34:26 FFS, I remeber exactly how somebody posted the "cat fooo" cmd, and everybody went "11 here", "me got 9", and I had 0. But I can't recall the channel nor the foooo Mar 23 04:35:43 this drives me nuts - chanlog search doesn't help, granny google doesn't help... :-S Mar 23 04:38:09 try looking at /sys/class/ubi/ubi0 Mar 23 04:39:15 already did. bad_peb_count doesn't sound exactly right Mar 23 04:39:47 also that's obviously for ubi, not for whole NAND Mar 23 04:41:08 * DocScrutinizer <-musing about cat /sys/block/mmcblk0/stat Mar 23 04:43:16 meh, mmc - fail Mar 23 05:00:37 hmm, bad_page-erase-blocks_count? Mar 23 05:01:38 * DocScrutinizer wishes for RL having better semantic tags Mar 23 05:01:52 write a hook into the mtd subsystem to dump it Mar 23 05:01:54 =) Mar 23 05:03:30 there's been a *simple* way Mar 23 05:03:52 like one cmdline "cat /foo/bar/doodledoo" Mar 23 05:06:32 maybe the hint with debugfs wasn't that off Mar 23 05:07:31 though I can't recall any mount cmd involved in that contest back when Mar 23 05:12:31 ~wtf mtd Mar 23 05:12:33 Gee... I don't know what mtd means... Mar 23 05:12:43 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_technology_device Mar 23 05:13:03 no wonder I forget details 9 months ago Mar 23 05:17:02 >>The sysfs interface is relatively newer and it provides full information about each MTD device in the system. This interface is easily extensible and developers are encouraged to use the sysfs interface instead of older ioctl or /proc/mtd interfaces, when possible. Mar 23 05:17:04 meh Mar 23 05:29:14 hmm, grep -A 40 "OneNAND driver initializing" /var/log/syslog Mar 23 05:34:07 meh for "hal-device /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/platform_omap2_onenand" Mar 23 05:34:14 I give up Mar 23 06:21:36 hi people i just got a virtual deb distro working on the n900 throghy Mar 23 06:22:15 easy deb and was curious of n900 limations Mar 23 06:22:46 and wanted to try and get some people to help Mar 23 06:23:29 makeing the open pandora os working on the n900 Mar 23 06:23:49 anyone think its possable Mar 23 06:24:26 user__: Limitations of EasyDebian seem to be no hardware-accelerated graphics due to no glES to OpenGL converter Mar 23 06:24:52 It's got a software renderer, but meh. No good for playing 3d games on. Mar 23 06:25:51 mm so no way to get an useful port of armstrong linux Mar 23 06:26:09 it's called angstrom Mar 23 06:26:40 oops Mar 23 06:27:06 and I'd expect angstrom to be fairly easy to adapt to the n900. I have it running on the same SoC but different product. Mar 23 06:27:14 including SGX Mar 23 06:28:23 mm but what i wanted was so that it had suppot the pnd ext Mar 23 06:29:16 maybe we can just add support into another distro alrady customized for n900 Mar 23 06:29:38 sorry if i seem like a noob i hab Mar 23 06:29:54 have no dev back ground Mar 23 06:30:25 SHR is Agstrom/OE based Mar 23 06:30:34 and runs on N900 Mar 23 06:31:58 but open pandora has a custom version tha has support for pnd Mar 23 06:32:16 and thats what i want to run on " Mar 23 06:32:21 n900 Mar 23 06:33:52 does anyone have an idea on how to that done? Mar 23 06:33:59 http://shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Devices/NokiaN900 Mar 23 06:34:20 nfc what's pnd Mar 23 06:34:37 so dunno if it's supported by SHR Mar 23 06:35:06 what i am aware of its an ec Mar 23 06:36:07 extension that they bulit into the custom pandora version of linux Mar 23 06:37:59 i just thaugt if we can get an copy of that image and edit it like we did with ubuntu and fedora Mar 23 06:38:25 it can be used on the N900 Mar 23 06:40:13 am i wrong Mar 23 06:41:12 hehe >> TEPCO will provide eternal AC power to systems for cooling the reactor and the suppression pool ...<< http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_images/pdf/ENGNEWS01_1300850463P.pdf Mar 23 06:45:49 Doc: It came down to eternal garantees? Mar 23 06:46:10 im going to bed it 3 in thre morning thanks for the help and anyone else who can help please email me at blahblahblah@hotmail.com Mar 23 06:56:01 * DocScrutinizer wonders what's a suppression pool Mar 23 07:24:54 what's the status of the openvg branch? Mar 23 07:25:02 erm oops Mar 23 07:25:03 :D Mar 23 07:25:05 nvrmind Mar 23 07:38:10 top Mar 23 07:41:14 bottom Mar 23 07:54:22 privet Mar 23 07:54:37 * ZogG o/ mece Mar 23 07:55:12 ZogG, hello there. How fares things? Mar 23 07:55:23 shitty Mar 23 07:56:34 how so? Mar 23 08:00:12 up, down, strnage, charm, raspberry Mar 23 08:00:29 1up ! Mar 23 08:01:15 1 up 1 down Mar 23 08:02:19 mece, have thousand problems =( Mar 23 08:02:31 DocScrutinizer, i do not use cheats Mar 23 08:02:36 oops, of course 2 up 1 down Mar 23 08:05:01 some weird shit going on with my sdk Mar 23 08:05:04 raspberry??????? Mar 23 08:05:09 blink Mar 23 08:05:38 rm: kan inte ta bort "./foo": Is a directory Mar 23 08:05:39 apt-get install libqt4-opengl-dev results in it whining that it depends on libqt4-dev but it's not going to be installed. When it already is installed. Mar 23 08:05:43 Huh...? Mar 23 08:05:57 DocScrutinizer: what the heck is a raspberry quark? Mar 23 08:05:57 I've always been able to remove directories with rm, lol Mar 23 08:05:59 FIQ|n900, -r Mar 23 08:06:08 HEHEHE Mar 23 08:06:22 Yes, I know Mar 23 08:06:23 I've seen first one yesterday Mar 23 08:06:27 rm -rf ./foo Mar 23 08:06:27 in my coffee Mar 23 08:06:41 DocScrutinizer: lol Mar 23 08:06:48 DocScrutinizer: you drink some strange coffee. Mar 23 08:06:53 FIQ|n900, what does rm -rf foo do then? Mar 23 08:06:54 DocScrutinizer: truly out of this world :D Mar 23 08:07:22 The same Mar 23 08:07:34 i.e. prints out an error about it being a directory Mar 23 08:08:02 FIQ|n900, well at least the error message looks cute when it's in swedish :) Mar 23 08:08:16 .. :P Mar 23 08:08:28 hrm Mar 23 08:08:44 DocScrutinizer why don't you have feelings =) Mar 23 08:08:48 x-fade: ping Mar 23 08:08:52 Venemo, hey buddy Mar 23 08:08:59 ZogG: I'm a shellscript Mar 23 08:09:09 DocScrutinizer you are skyne Mar 23 08:09:12 skynet* Mar 23 08:09:22 I used the directory to attempt to do sshfs on N900, but when it didn't work at all, I just scp:ed it. However, the dir borked after that Mar 23 08:09:30 what do you think is root of skynet? Mar 23 08:09:42 can't cd, can't ls it, can't do anything with it Mar 23 08:10:00 FIQ|n900: stat it Mar 23 08:10:04 x-fade: my package (osc and osc-pix) got uploaded but still doesn't show maintainer field (it is set in debian/control though), care to guess why? Mar 23 08:10:05 Performed a df -h, and it isn't mounted Mar 23 08:10:21 fiq: mount |grep your_partition Mar 23 08:10:40 df sometimes hides filesystems it guesses as virtual Mar 23 08:11:08 also, ps ax|grep ssh Mar 23 08:11:10 I guess it's a stale sshfs mount Mar 23 08:11:13 it could get dismounted Mar 23 08:11:20 killall -9 ssh Mar 23 08:11:21 :) Mar 23 08:11:24 then umount Mar 23 08:11:29 or other way round Mar 23 08:11:31 I actually found that process Mar 23 08:11:34 and killed it Mar 23 08:11:42 killed it for good? Mar 23 08:11:46 is it still mounted? Mar 23 08:11:53 gaaaaaaha Mar 23 08:12:04 stupid library fail Mar 23 08:12:05 fiq: check the output of 'mount' command Mar 23 08:12:18 mece, so how is gnash tryings? Mar 23 08:12:19 * mece gives up and installs libqt4-experimental instead Mar 23 08:12:40 Yeah, it was mounted Mar 23 08:12:41 ZogG, annoying because qt libs were messy somehow. Mar 23 08:12:44 umounted it now Mar 23 08:12:48 ty Mar 23 08:13:14 now rm worked properly Mar 23 08:13:20 BUT Mar 23 08:13:28 fusermount -u mountpoint Mar 23 08:13:30 why did the error state "Is a directory"? Mar 23 08:13:34 ZogG, I'm pretty sure gnash wont amount to anything useful in it's current state... Mar 23 08:13:58 fiq: don't trust anything you read Mar 23 08:14:08 mece =( Mar 23 08:14:16 error codes get reused Mar 23 08:14:17 anyway i almost don't use java Mar 23 08:14:20 i mean flash Mar 23 08:14:30 =) Mar 23 08:14:39 anyway i hate both Mar 23 08:14:46 hmm Mar 23 08:14:49 fusermount Mar 23 08:15:02 (u)mount as non-superuser? Mar 23 08:15:09 or what? :p Mar 23 08:15:11 opera 11 looks cool Mar 23 08:15:17 fusermount is setuid Mar 23 08:15:33 mount could bark at you for being non-superuser Mar 23 08:15:52 KotCzarny, than be root Mar 23 08:18:25 ZogG, opera 11 for n900? Mar 23 08:18:34 see man sshfs Mar 23 08:18:43 sshfs ftfw Mar 23 08:18:56 (strange enough fusermount doesn't have a manpage) Mar 23 08:19:07 X-Fade, if you can find an answer for kotczarny osc problem, ping me I will bring him back to channel or relay as reqd \o Mar 23 08:20:07 ?? Mar 23 08:20:10 FIQ|n900, maybe it's a translation bug Mar 23 08:20:39 mece, maybe Mar 23 08:20:54 http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2011-March/482156.html Mar 23 08:20:55 heh Mar 23 08:21:06 hmm Mar 23 08:21:33 frals, wtf? Mar 23 08:21:38 by the way, the "(y/n) y *abort*" problem in dpkg, is it Maemo's or dpkg's fault? Mar 23 08:21:41 sometimes fsckdup mounts and corrupted filesystems have strange effects - see the notorious "stale NFS mount" as last rationale of fsck when running into really bad corruptions on extfs Mar 23 08:21:57 mece yes, i like interface Mar 23 08:22:28 and everything looks good, only if microb was able to get tabs and speeddial like this =( Mar 23 08:22:29 since when I used kubuntu (long time ago, on 9.04), it was correctly prompting in own language. Mar 23 08:23:05 I'd be happy if I could actually use 4 virtual desktops... not have to switch between apps... Mar 23 08:24:33 hey ZogG, sorry I couldn't respond yesterday. I was sleeping. Mar 23 08:28:07 Venemo ьу ещщ Mar 23 08:28:10 me too Mar 23 08:29:38 ok ZogG:) Mar 23 08:30:58 Venemo mece told me terrible things about you Mar 23 08:31:27 O.o Mar 23 08:31:35 =) Mar 23 08:33:10 really? Mar 23 08:33:16 mece, what things were those? Mar 23 08:38:52 Venemo, no idea Mar 23 08:41:02 ZogG, you liar Mar 23 08:41:18 =) Mar 23 08:42:01 Venemo, i want to teach you a lesson of life, you have to stop being naive and start being bad ass liek DocScrutinizer Mar 23 08:43:24 i know russian guy he doesn't know english and he is one of devs of gajim, he uses google translator for translations =) Mar 23 08:43:33 isn't it awesome =) Mar 23 08:45:01 * DocScrutinizer charges a 1uF to 10kV, shouts "CATCH!" and trows it at ZogG Mar 23 08:45:40 can't touch me, lalalalallalala, can't touch me Mar 23 08:46:34 * crashanddie_ sees the cap hit ZogG, and all of a sudden HE'S DANCING LIKE MC MOTHERFUCKING HAMMER Mar 23 08:47:21 =) Mar 23 08:47:30 Hahahahahahahahaaaaa Mar 23 08:47:33 "Capitalism may be to blame for the lack of life on the planet Mars, Venezuela's socialist President Hugo Chavez said on Tuesday." Mar 23 08:47:36 howdy crashanddie Mar 23 08:47:54 LOL muhaha Mar 23 08:47:58 ""I have always said, heard, that it would not be strange that there had been civilization on Mars, but maybe capitalism arrived there, imperialism arrived and finished off the planet," Chavez said in speech to mark World Water Day." Mar 23 08:48:06 i need ruskie, but he is ignoring me Mar 23 08:48:14 http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/22/us-venezuela-chavez-mars-idUSTRE72L61D20110322?feedType=RSS&feedName=oddlyEnoughNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reuters%2FoddlyEnoughNews+%28News+%2F+US+%2F+Oddly+Enough%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher Mar 23 08:48:22 ~nuke ZogG for being not nice Mar 23 08:48:24 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at ZogG for being not nice ... B☢☢M! Mar 23 08:48:34 ruskie, wake the fuck up Mar 23 08:48:38 i'm all attention today =) Mar 23 08:48:55 shoot Chavez to mars, so he can speak in front of proper audience Mar 23 08:49:04 crashanddie, what the fuck man, there are fucking kids here, so don't use this kind of lang Mar 23 08:49:44 ZogG, oh, I'm sorry Mar 23 08:49:53 Well, those little fucks had it coming, hadn't they? Mar 23 08:49:54 ~rape ZogG Mar 23 08:49:55 * infobot takes ZogG behind the WallMart and makes a few grunts and screams Mar 23 08:51:40 crashanddie, http://lolsnaps.com/upload_pic/3435.jpg Mar 23 08:52:15 I'm not ignoring you Mar 23 08:53:02 ruskie you are, yes you are. than why do you try to fuck mr wallace liek a bitch? Mar 23 08:53:08 what? Mar 23 08:53:19 nvr mind it's from pulp fiction Mar 23 08:53:45 * DocScrutinizer thinks the shout be a configurable "ulimit" for HTML page size (in bytes). For example it's a pretty bad idea to search on http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog for common matchwords (like DocScrutinizer) Mar 23 08:54:02 ruskie, have you got version of xmms2 client with separete lines info? Mar 23 08:54:05 meh, *there should* Mar 23 08:54:16 o.O Mar 23 08:54:23 ZogG, hmm nope... haven't had the time to mess with anything yet Mar 23 08:54:35 been rather busy the last few days Mar 23 08:55:20 I just been lucky to always have an instance of system monitor running so I was able to kill the process Mar 23 08:55:29 ruskie, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2336306/fresh_0.0.1_armel.deb Mar 23 08:56:29 ruskie there are few options Mar 23 08:57:15 ...just around the time my desktop started to freeze Mar 23 08:57:57 ruskie or i make new option file ( but not right now) and you would be able to set the way how does it display ( like %artist - %title %new_line %album) Mar 23 08:58:08 probably a nice way to test swappolube on N900 as well ;-P Mar 23 08:58:35 and OOM Mar 23 08:58:48 but for now i would set it as it should be by default and as you are the only one using it except me, you should decide how to show info Mar 23 08:59:22 * DocScrutinizer cackles satanically while opening microB on t900 Mar 23 08:59:54 t900? Mar 23 09:00:06 if onlyu mircoB was opensource Mar 23 09:01:15 Venemo, btw i would need some explanation on code you did when you and i both have time, ok? Mar 23 09:01:27 ZogG, ok. Mar 23 09:02:15 I gotta go now Mar 23 09:02:17 bb Mar 23 09:02:18 ZogG, hmm no split between artist and title Mar 23 09:03:09 ruskie wqhat you mean split? Mar 23 09:03:15 on separate line Mar 23 09:03:23 line1: title Mar 23 09:03:24 "—" Mar 23 09:03:26 line2: artist Mar 23 09:03:30 line3: album Mar 23 09:03:32 hehe, now this might take some time Mar 23 09:03:34 oh Mar 23 09:03:41 you want them all to be separete lines? Mar 23 09:04:09 ruskie, are you sure, for now its line1: artist -title (in bold) line2: [album] Mar 23 09:04:21 yup I'm sure Mar 23 09:04:28 i want to do as well ["album" year] Mar 23 09:04:31 * DocScrutinizer watches htop and giggles Mar 23 09:04:51 240 swp Mar 23 09:04:57 because long artist name - long track name means that it'll either scroll or be cut off and I don't like either Mar 23 09:05:02 250 Mar 23 09:05:08 ruskie, ok, i'll change it, but i don't think it's an a good idea Mar 23 09:05:33 ruskie, how long it can be? =) Mar 23 09:05:41 aaah, already nonresponsive Mar 23 09:05:48 317 Mar 23 09:06:40 380 Mar 23 09:06:52 ZogG, example: Protricity - Mega Man X Brainsick Metal OC ReMix Mar 23 09:07:46 hmm, how does other players handle it? Mar 23 09:08:47 haha, "internet page doesn't respond. Force closing it?" Mar 23 09:08:49 ruskie, ok and how do you want playlist? Mar 23 09:09:12 separate tab... with id - title - artist Mar 23 09:09:45 ok i think i'll do separete window with tabs Mar 23 09:10:06 current|medialib|playlists| Mar 23 09:10:10 is it ok? Mar 23 09:10:42 yup Mar 23 09:11:06 ok it would take sooome time i think =) Mar 23 09:12:05 ruskie portrait mode would be harder i think Mar 23 09:14:51 I can live without portrait mode Mar 23 09:14:54 I don't actually use it anywhere Mar 23 09:15:16 don't really see a point Mar 23 09:16:23 you're going all out with the functionality I see ;) Mar 23 09:16:39 btw maybe add a volume control as well... Mar 23 09:19:22 * DocScrutinizer considers a queeenbeecon button with sudo killall browserd Mar 23 09:19:57 the 430MB swap never got released even on forcing browser window to close Mar 23 09:20:23 killall browserd recovered them in less than 5s Mar 23 09:20:54 fun Mar 23 09:21:06 hmm need to take another look at queenbeecon... Mar 23 09:22:12 htop && http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search?q=joined Mar 23 09:22:23 if you want to reproduce that Mar 23 09:22:44 I suggest running htop on a WLAN ssh Mar 23 09:23:30 and s/joined/and/ Mar 23 09:24:51 ruskie: I'm more a fan of desktop cmdline execution widget. Less fancy chrome, much easier to config Mar 23 09:26:03 yeah I use that as well Mar 23 09:26:21 I looked at qbc but didn't really see much of a prob... Mar 23 09:27:08 all those background png and colors and whatnot, yay Mar 23 09:27:38 took me like 30min to tailor it to show a simple recangular unicolor button Mar 23 09:28:43 without freakin honeygold background and whatnot else Mar 23 09:29:17 and then you can't copy/clone a button Mar 23 09:29:32 so for 2nd button all the same procedure again :-S Mar 23 09:29:44 DocScrutinizer, of course it took you that long to make a rectangle! Mar 23 09:29:55 isn't beecon still oriented towards hexagons? Mar 23 09:30:06 yes :-( Mar 23 09:30:24 that is not such a problem tis certainly novel Mar 23 09:30:28 and fingerable Mar 23 09:30:47 * lcuk greatly admires that aspect of beecon :) Mar 23 09:31:43 and pukable Mar 23 09:32:10 looks like **beeeeep** Mar 23 09:33:08 DocScrutinizer: Did jacekowski ever elaborate on this "DocScrutinizer: but it looks like you may get that data with just at interface"? Mar 23 09:33:23 nope :-P Mar 23 09:33:52 is he under an NDA or something? Mar 23 09:34:00 no Mar 23 09:34:43 just like me, lots of info collected in his head, but no reference footnotes for citation Mar 23 09:34:56 damnit. there's something wrong with my phone Mar 23 09:35:07 whenever it's run out of battery Mar 23 09:35:16 it shuts down Mar 23 09:35:19 !!1!!! Mar 23 09:35:21 it takes three pushes of the power button before it gets to the pin code Mar 23 09:35:27 YES OH MY GOD YOU ARE CORRECT Mar 23 09:36:03 ;-P Mar 23 09:36:14 now, do you know how to make it boot in one press instead of three? Mar 23 09:36:28 what happens on the frist two? Mar 23 09:36:39 It lights up, gives me the nokia logo, sometimes even the balls, but then it just goes *vibrate* *off* Mar 23 09:36:51 *burp* Mar 23 09:36:53 nasty Mar 23 09:37:00 yup Mar 23 09:37:05 nfi Mar 23 09:37:11 I'm going to try reflashing it once, see what happens Mar 23 09:37:31 if it still keeps doing this, i'm going to RMA my phone, and hope for the best, since I don't want it to crap out during something important Mar 23 09:37:38 korhojoa: ever tried to sit it out? Mar 23 09:37:51 sit it out? it turns off after the pushes Mar 23 09:37:54 I.E. press once, wait what's going to happen Mar 23 09:37:59 i pressed once Mar 23 09:38:03 waited for 15 minutes Mar 23 09:38:06 oooh Mar 23 09:38:19 now that's definitely long enough :-D Mar 23 09:38:20 all it did was turn on for 30 seconds and then just go off again Mar 23 09:38:32 weird shit Mar 23 09:38:42 so now i know it takes two minutes to boot my phone if it's had it's battery emptied at some point Mar 23 09:39:01 it's not a power low issue, since i leave it to charge before i attempt booting it up Mar 23 09:39:22 that's been my next question Mar 23 09:39:46 this is when it's connected to charger or computer, both result in the same behavior Mar 23 09:39:46 amber flashing? Mar 23 09:39:55 yes, normal charging Mar 23 09:39:59 :-S Mar 23 09:40:16 i've tried looking at the boot reasons, but since i can't get to them when it fails, eh. Mar 23 09:40:27 :nod: Mar 23 09:40:40 very old worn battery? Mar 23 09:40:45 brand new Mar 23 09:40:49 tzz Mar 23 09:40:57 i got a replacement phone and everything when the microusb died Mar 23 09:40:58 reflash :-P Mar 23 09:41:03 hmm I can never got my phone to boot when connectetd via usb Mar 23 09:41:11 al/ways need no disconnect Mar 23 09:41:20 then wait for it to boot into that minimal system Mar 23 09:41:27 and then I am able to boot it up Mar 23 09:41:36 uh Mar 23 09:41:42 I see it does booting since I have fbcon Mar 23 09:42:13 hmm, you give me ideas. Mar 23 09:42:32 for? Mar 23 09:42:34 korhojoa: you got multiboot? or backupmenu? uBoot? Mar 23 09:42:58 DocScrutinizer, backupmenu Mar 23 09:43:03 hmm Mar 23 09:43:12 it sometimes shows up, sometimes not Mar 23 09:43:15 korhojoa: kbd slider closed on boot? Mar 23 09:43:25 when closed, doesn't show up Mar 23 09:43:29 correct Mar 23 09:43:35 when open, only sure appearance is on the third one Mar 23 09:43:53 wait, you got fb? Mar 23 09:44:04 fb-enabled kernel?? Mar 23 09:44:23 aah, that's been ruskie Mar 23 09:44:24 is it just me, or does the chromium icon look like a pokeball? Mar 23 09:44:52 DocScrutinizer, me? Mar 23 09:44:57 ruskie: fb is known to mess up boot & shutdown Mar 23 09:45:16 DocScrutinizer, well for me it works well enough ;) Mar 23 09:45:34 crashanddie_, paint it red, collect em all! Mar 23 09:45:42 what's the fb kernel for? Mar 23 09:45:58 framebuffer? Mar 23 09:46:04 boot console msgs Mar 23 09:46:20 it only reboots the system a max of 3 times, then it boots up correctly :) Mar 23 09:46:27 MohammadAG, i know that, but was wondering what it does Mar 23 09:46:29 exactly Mar 23 09:47:24 more like it delays boot, and that little bar of battery you want to use for an emergency call won't hold up :P Mar 23 09:47:31 :D Mar 23 09:47:59 Mar 23 09:48:21 no more emergency calls nowadays - you're on your own Mar 23 09:48:34 meh, need to find someone else to prank then Mar 23 09:48:40 2014 they scrap 911 Mar 23 09:49:26 for emergency calls I'd still use a plain old cheapest longest standby possible nokia phone Mar 23 09:49:41 infact I need to buy one of those el-cheapo ones to have in the car Mar 23 09:49:53 which you don't have when an emergency happens Mar 23 09:50:02 ruskie: disconnect battery Mar 23 09:50:24 it won't last when inserted Mar 23 09:50:26 I'd use something that has GPS that can be remotely turned on :P Mar 23 09:51:27 so... Mar 23 09:51:53 how does one recover a lost, possibly changed by someone else, password when the security question is wrong ... Mar 23 09:52:48 MohammadAG: On what service? Mar 23 09:53:25 Windows Live Mar 23 09:53:46 it's not mine, just helping out a friend who got their fb and WL passwords changed Mar 23 09:53:54 prove them you are you Mar 23 09:54:04 Tried to, that didn't help :P Mar 23 09:54:06 send scans of a bunch of personal data Mar 23 09:54:30 If microsoft was in the UK, I'd - if there was no other way - file a subject access request under the data protection act, to get them to reveal my password. Mar 23 09:55:10 Or the hashed password, if that's all they have, then john it. Mar 23 09:55:31 but they're not :) Mar 23 09:55:59 do they have a secondary email acct, or phone number, linked to the account? Mar 23 09:56:05 no Mar 23 09:56:15 I linked my email for customer support Mar 23 09:56:37 a day later they sent me this, most probably an automated response Mar 23 09:56:39 Unfortunately, we could not verify the Windows Live ID account ownership using the information you provided. Mar 23 09:56:52 and some recommendations Mar 23 09:57:25 I think providing some older passwords and any email addys used could help Mar 23 09:57:55 and any other info that was actually on the account Mar 23 09:58:05 I did provide as much as I could Mar 23 09:58:18 after, I seriously recommend closing all accounts permanently ;) Mar 23 09:58:20 password, contacts, etc Mar 23 09:59:12 but seriously, how can someone else change a password without all this, and the real owner can't get the password reset Mar 23 09:59:19 hack Mar 23 09:59:21 social hack Mar 23 09:59:24 guesswork Mar 23 09:59:27 SpeedEvil: (john) LOL Mar 23 10:00:34 changing password just needs the existing password. not knowing the password needs an alternate method of identifying yourself. if your guy didnt do any of the several things the acct lets you do to secondarily identify himself, hes made it much harder for himself to get the acct back. Mar 23 10:01:22 when the account got hacked, all those secondary measures are mot Mar 23 10:01:25 moot Mar 23 10:01:35 no because they keep the history Mar 23 10:01:46 you're sure? Mar 23 10:01:49 yes Mar 23 10:01:51 not really, changing password only changes password. you need to also know the secret question answer to change that Mar 23 10:01:59 then that's no problem Mar 23 10:02:00 and they log all previous secondary email addresses Mar 23 10:02:09 MohammadAG, tell 'em it's a good time to switch to gmail anyhow Mar 23 10:02:20 DocScrutinizer, most of the web services have a) if you delete data we can't guarantee that it's gone Mar 23 10:02:27 so either backups or history Mar 23 10:02:38 crashanddie_, they did, but they need their messages back Mar 23 10:02:40 work and stuff Mar 23 10:02:48 they will answer GFO Mar 23 10:03:17 their BOFH admin will, for sure Mar 23 10:03:27 ruskie, how, the security question gets locked after 5 attempts for another day Mar 23 10:03:39 MohammadAG, ? Mar 23 10:03:41 how what? Mar 23 10:03:51 "guesswork" Mar 23 10:04:04 "WUT!? restore a password file from backup, for an idiot user?? C'MON!" Mar 23 10:04:31 MohammadAG: if your guy had a stupidly easy secret question/answer, 5 guesses would be plenty Mar 23 10:06:59 MohammadAG, BOLLOCKS. Mar 23 10:07:08 MohammadAG, They didn't have work stuff on Windows Live. Mar 23 10:07:14 And if they did, they deserved to lose it. Mar 23 10:07:28 fb!! even worse Mar 23 10:07:33 just as much as they do if they put it on gmail instead Mar 23 10:07:50 (though I admit I got NFC what' WL) Mar 23 10:07:50 fb was ironically easier to recover Mar 23 10:08:01 crashanddie_, you've never been to israel have you? Mar 23 10:08:07 I have Mar 23 10:08:08 not Mar 23 10:08:32 Mar 23 10:08:36 then you don't know how even big companies can be using windows live :P Mar 23 10:09:22 hit them again for that Mar 23 10:10:03 ~xyawn Mar 23 10:10:03 i heard xyawn is nice coffee Mar 23 10:10:08 hmm Mar 23 10:10:25 ~nice Mar 23 10:10:26 methinks nice is prime example of SuperJuan, or a good term for GNOME a derogatory term meaning bland, boring, feeble, or just crap. Example: That's a nice haircut. a city in france, or a program that will run a program with a modified scheduling priority (from -20 to 19, where 19 is the lowest). Mar 23 10:10:45 try again! Mar 23 10:10:48 ~xyawn Mar 23 10:10:49 good coffee Mar 23 10:12:34 ~xeyes Mar 23 10:12:53 ~boring Mar 23 10:12:54 yes, you are korhojoa Mar 23 10:13:01 LOL Mar 23 10:13:05 :< Mar 23 10:14:21 ~naughty Mar 23 10:14:22 Do a little dance, make a little love, get down tonight! Mar 23 10:17:16 * DocScrutinizer feels like exploiting ~weather Mar 23 10:17:39 ~weather EDDN Mar 23 10:17:42 Nuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2011.03.23 0950 UTC; Dew Point: 37 F (3 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.65 in. Hg (1038 hPa); Relative Humidity: 54%; Sky conditions: mostly clear; Temperature: 53 F (12 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the NNE (020 degrees) at 7 MPH (6 KT) (direction variable) Mar 23 10:18:44 I bet downtown it's even 3° higher Mar 23 10:20:44 ~weather HEL Mar 23 10:20:46 I can't find station code "HEL" (see http://www.nws.noaa.gov/oso/site.shtml or http://www.nws.noaa.gov/tg/siteloc.shtml for ICAO locations codes). Mar 23 10:21:06 ~weather LJLJ Mar 23 10:21:09 Ljubljana / Brnik, Slovenia; (LJLJ) 46-13N 014-29E 362M; last updated: 2011.03.23 1000 UTC; Dew Point: 32 F (0 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.53 in. Hg (1034 hPa); Relative Humidity: 46%; Temperature: 51 F (11 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the ENE (060 degrees) at 3 MPH (3 KT) (direction variable) Mar 23 10:21:18 ~weather EFVA Mar 23 10:21:21 Vaasa, Finland; (EFVA) 63-03N 021-46E; last updated: 2011.03.23 0950 UTC; Dew Point: 23 F (-5 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.85 in. Hg (1011 hPa); Relative Humidity: 64%; Temperature: 33 F (1 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the W (260 degrees) at 16 MPH (14 KT) (direction variable); Windchill: 23 F (-5 C) Mar 23 10:21:53 so to quote http://thefuckingweather.com/?zipcode=nuernberg&CELSIUS=yes : ITS FUCKING ....ALRIGHT Better than a sharp stick in the eye. Mar 23 10:23:48 :D Mar 23 10:24:08 apparently, I need to: "Call your local travel agency and ask them if they're serious." Mar 23 10:25:23 korhojoa, did they tell you that your next dirt cheap vacation for under 10 eur you'll need to walk to the destination on your own? Mar 23 10:26:04 nah, you're going to clean out SFPs at FUKU for leisure Mar 23 10:27:22 ~weather TLV Mar 23 10:27:24 I can't find station code "TLV" (see http://www.nws.noaa.gov/oso/site.shtml or http://www.nws.noaa.gov/tg/siteloc.shtml for ICAO locations codes). Mar 23 10:27:31 ~weather TA Mar 23 10:27:33 I can't find station code "TA" (see http://www.nws.noaa.gov/oso/site.shtml or http://www.nws.noaa.gov/tg/siteloc.shtml for ICAO locations codes). Mar 23 10:27:56 ZogG, it's an ICAO code... usually the nearest airport Mar 23 10:28:11 and nobody knows ICAO Mar 23 10:28:20 ~weather LLSD Mar 23 10:28:23 Tel Aviv / Sde-Dov Airport, Israel; (LLSD) 32-06-53N 034-46-56E; last updated: 2011.03.23 0950 UTC; Dew Point: 57 F (14 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.03 in. Hg (1017 hPa); Relative Humidity: 77%; Sky conditions: partly cloudy; Temperature: 64 F (18 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Weather: Towering cumulus clouds observed; Wind: from the W (270 degrees) at 18 MPH (16 KT) Mar 23 10:29:08 ; Relative Humidity: 77% Mar 23 10:29:11 lol Mar 23 10:29:12 lesser lysergacid dietylamine? Mar 23 10:29:34 ? Mar 23 10:29:42 LLSD Mar 23 10:30:18 in US it should be called LAD Mar 23 10:30:31 not LSD Mar 23 10:30:55 Hello Mar 23 10:30:57 how do they even create those code Mar 23 10:30:58 like it's DNA, not DNS Mar 23 10:31:00 I got my phone back! :D Mar 23 10:31:01 xs Mar 23 10:31:05 s Mar 23 10:31:10 sx Mar 23 10:31:11 lolcat, lol Mar 23 10:31:14 lolcat, cat Mar 23 10:31:32 "Serviced by Arvato. Main fault serviced: Mechanical failure" Mar 23 10:31:37 wht those etters stand for? Mar 23 10:31:42 Wonder wtf that means Mar 23 10:31:46 see wiki Mar 23 10:32:04 first is military/civil airport afaik, at least for Europe Mar 23 10:32:06 lolcat, the watch in n900 is mechanic and it's not fixebale Mar 23 10:32:19 the rest is random Mar 23 10:32:42 ZogG: Well, they say they fixed the mechanical failure Mar 23 10:32:57 it's automatic watch, you need to shake Mar 23 10:33:01 One more reboot-loop (or issue resemblancing reboot-loop) and I get my money back Mar 23 10:33:09 we have LJLJ and LJMB atleast... the first LJ is where the flight control for the area is and the second is basically the airport specification that goes under that flight control Mar 23 10:33:14 lolcat do it Mar 23 10:33:38 we're small so we only have one flight control area Mar 23 10:34:00 ~weather lfpb Mar 23 10:34:03 Paris / Le Bourget, France; (LFPB) 48-58N 002-27E 65M; last updated: 2011.03.23 1000 UTC; Dew Point: 41 F (5 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.65 in. Hg (1038 hPa); Relative Humidity: 58%; Temperature: 55 F (13 C); Visibility: 3 mile(s); Wind: from the NE (040 degrees) at 8 MPH (7 KT) (direction variable) Mar 23 10:34:15 we have 2 international airports in whole country and mostly one in use Mar 23 10:34:23 second is almost not usable Mar 23 10:34:29 i mean civil ones Mar 23 10:34:43 and i think we have 2 more that are incountry flies Mar 23 10:35:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icao#Codes_registered_with_ICAO Mar 23 10:38:53 hehe, ICAN was predecessor of ICAO Mar 23 10:40:12 * DocScrutinizer watches an incountry fly hum by Mar 23 10:46:20 DocScrutinizer, you are computer Mar 23 10:46:32 DocScrutinizer is machine Mar 23 11:07:59 It seams I have a new internal battery! :D Mar 23 11:10:38 I hate how they flash my phone every time though Mar 23 11:15:40 lolcat you mean internal the one that is builtin Mar 23 11:15:58 Yes Mar 23 11:16:09 The one that keeps the clock Mar 23 11:16:29 Heh; replaced mine myself with a supercap as one of you guys suggested Mar 23 11:16:42 Seems to work... though replacing it was a pain. Mar 23 11:19:12 hi guys Mar 23 11:19:17 i have simple question Mar 23 11:19:39 is it possible to add same widget on more than one desktop Mar 23 11:20:01 (talking about n900) Mar 23 11:25:19 yes, there's a line to add in the .desktop file Mar 23 11:25:32 can't remember it right now *checks hildon-home code* Mar 23 11:26:17 FedoraUser, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5371#c11 Mar 23 11:26:19 Bug 5371: Allow same shortcut to be used on multiple home screen desktops Mar 23 11:27:31 X-Multiple=true Mar 23 11:27:44 Adding that to the .desktop file of a widget allows multiple additions Mar 23 11:27:54 the files are in /usr/share/applications/hildon-home/ Mar 23 11:34:27 robbiethe1st: one of you guys == DocScrutinizer Mar 23 11:34:35 Yea, thought so Mar 23 11:35:45 MohammadAG++ Mar 23 11:50:34 does this look wrong to anyone? painter->drawPixmap(r.x() + ((r.width()/2)-(128/2)), r.y(), 128, 128, thumbnail); Mar 23 11:51:17 what is that supposed to do Mar 23 11:51:24 center a thumbnail Mar 23 11:51:31 or paint it centered Mar 23 11:52:52 r would be the widget I'm centering the image in Mar 23 11:52:58 and it's part of a grid Mar 23 11:53:10 thanks MohammadAG andre__ ! Mar 23 11:53:16 np Mar 23 11:53:19 yw :) Mar 23 11:53:21 hmm Mar 23 11:53:31 i am not sure i should meddle but shouldn't it be - instead of + Mar 23 11:53:32 ? Mar 23 11:53:35 MohammadAG: the Y coordinate looks a bit off no? Mar 23 11:53:37 MohammadAG: 5 parameters? Mar 23 11:54:03 frals, r.y() is off? Mar 23 11:54:07 jacekowski, sec Mar 23 11:54:15 isnt that gonna paint it at the top? Mar 23 11:54:15 (yes, but sec) Mar 23 11:54:16 void drawPixmap ( int x, int y, int width, int height, const QPixmap & pixmap )? Mar 23 11:54:21 frals, yeah Mar 23 11:54:34 so thats not centered then ;) Mar 23 11:54:48 http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7/qpainter.html#drawPixmap-9 Mar 23 11:54:52 frals, horizontally :) Mar 23 11:54:59 well say that then ;p Mar 23 11:55:18 frals, you should know I'm working on a media player clone :P Mar 23 11:55:25 MohammadAG: it should work Mar 23 11:55:45 yeah but what container you are painting in ;) Mar 23 11:55:48 cool, now to figure out why the text is messed up Mar 23 11:55:50 +no idea somewhere there Mar 23 11:56:05 frals, video window, it's a grid of items Mar 23 11:57:18 I should consider using icon size instead of the hardcoded value Mar 23 12:07:53 hey MohammadAG, what's up? Mar 23 12:08:11 hi Venemo Mar 23 12:12:09 MohammadAG: could you check http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Desktop_file_format&diff=42794&oldid=42249 Mar 23 12:13:43 DocScrutinizer, :) Mar 23 12:13:56 why isn't X-App-Loading-Image documented? Mar 23 12:14:02 I think it's either not there or = none Mar 23 12:14:13 :shrug: Mar 23 12:14:47 I meant it's either not in the .desktop file or X-App-Loading-Image=none Mar 23 12:14:51 :P Mar 23 12:41:58 This architecture discussion is so juicy. Mar 23 12:42:21 Sakari in response to Arjan: "Just to be clear, Nokia members of the MeeGo architecture team where not involved in these latest decisions of the MeeGo architecture direction (MSSF/Buteo/PIM)." Mar 23 12:42:47 fun Mar 23 12:43:00 I'm slightly annoyed they're dropping tracker .. Mar 23 12:43:21 are they replacing it or actually dropping it? Mar 23 12:43:27 evolution, is crap :( Mar 23 12:43:49 Well, I think it's going to be there for media, but this is specific to contacts. Mar 23 12:44:09 ruskie: moving to EDS. Mar 23 12:44:23 ugh Mar 23 12:44:24 Point is, it screws up mobility and seaside (i think) Mar 23 12:44:38 Well, the big problem seems to be that the Intel-side of the architecture team (i.e., Arjan) just came out and said. "We're switching to these things!" Mar 23 12:44:46 Turns out the governance model wasn't followed at all Mar 23 12:50:30 It's all rather a mess. Mar 23 12:50:36 The whole "discussion" is indeed rather a mess Mar 23 12:50:57 Heh Mar 23 12:51:12 Oh well, makes for great reading. Mar 23 12:51:15 I wonder if they realise the effect they are having, or perhaps would-be device manufacturers don't really care that there's no agreement about core components...? Mar 23 12:51:36 http://i52.tinypic.com/2i9se4i.jpg thoughts? Mar 23 12:51:49 (Stock N900 sample songs) Mar 23 12:51:53 maybe they'll figure it out before they actually manage to sink the boat... Mar 23 12:52:10 Makes me rather nostalgic for Maemo days, actually. Mar 23 12:52:20 MohammadAG: looks fine to me. Mar 23 12:52:20 perhaps, they've managed to bail water the wrong way for quite some time now Mar 23 12:52:26 GeneralAntilles: agreed Mar 23 12:52:29 GeneralAntilles, that's the open source clone :) Mar 23 12:52:44 MohammadAG: same, looks fine, but where are the 3D shadows, etc.? ;) Mar 23 12:52:50 lol Mar 23 12:52:51 lardman: Bail? Try to use a boat as a submarine, more-like. Mar 23 12:53:17 lardman, I'm planning a QML coverflow for the fun of it :) Mar 23 12:53:18 They're trying to torpedo the Germans. Mar 23 12:53:37 MohammadAG: cool Mar 23 12:53:41 SpeedEvil: :) Mar 23 12:53:58 GeneralAntilles: and forgot to open the torpedo tube doors from the looks of it Mar 23 12:55:22 I don't really see a point for EDS or tracker frankly Mar 23 12:55:27 Turning into Mutiny on the Bounty. Mar 23 12:55:57 Well without any hw that it actually runs adequately on, it's all not that relevant anyway Mar 23 12:56:22 once a new Nokia device comes out, or the N900 effort is usable that will change things in terms of my overall interest Mar 23 12:56:41 or indeed when I find the time to get the Tab kernel updated Mar 23 12:57:09 once they actually come up with a usable gui that isn't a direct rip-off of ios/android/symbian I might become interested Mar 23 12:57:35 MohammadAG: I ried X-Multiple=true; seems it doesn't work as expected Mar 23 12:57:37 direct rip off is fine, as long as it actually works Mar 23 12:58:23 as for what runs in the background... use direct raw data or basic sqlite dbs and be done with it... then anyone can hook into them if so wanted and do whatever... Mar 23 12:58:50 well there is something to be said for abstracting away some of the basics Mar 23 12:58:59 tracker is good, allows better data integration. RDF ftw. Mar 23 12:59:04 MohammadAG: are you sure this X-Multiple isn't about multiple concurrent running instances? Mar 23 12:59:45 DocScrutinizer, widgets, not application shortcuts Mar 23 12:59:51 ouch Mar 23 12:59:53 I wonder when Minimal-eeGo will come around... Mar 23 13:00:21 yeah, sure, multiple app shortcuts are higher nonsense Mar 23 13:00:27 /usr/share/applications/hildon-home Mar 23 13:01:12 except of course on separate desktops Mar 23 13:01:38 ruskie: I wish they'd just settle on something and indeed get the default apps and interface working Mar 23 13:02:09 damn Mar 23 13:02:28 DocScrutinizer, probably needs a modded hildon-home Mar 23 13:05:39 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/23/lse_media_studies/ <-- hmm Mar 23 13:07:52 Always with the flailing about. Mar 23 13:08:23 hehe Mar 23 13:08:33 http://www.reghardware.com/2011/03/23/nanotech_super_charge_battery/ <-- interesting Mar 23 13:08:34 There must be some fun at-work conversations flying around at both companies. Mar 23 13:09:18 :) Mar 23 13:09:22 has anyone tried the spotme app in devel? Mar 23 13:09:26 I'm just floored to see architecture decisions coming down as dictates from the mountain top from half the team. Mar 23 13:09:34 quite Mar 23 13:09:50 though the fact Nokia haven't got their act together to add someone to the board is a little odd Mar 23 13:10:20 People who want to end copyright are fools. Mar 23 13:10:47 Nokia's board and management combine for ultimate fail. Mar 23 13:11:14 sounds interesting, but im not sure is it safe to install. the documenting is a bit too little for me.. Mar 23 13:11:23 Jaffa is right, though, that's hardly justification for Intel to treat the Nokians involved like they are. Mar 23 13:12:18 oh quite, I certainly think the Intel pronouncements and general pissed-off-ness are off Mar 23 13:13:03 * lardman heads for lunch Mar 23 13:13:57 It's fun seeing the true colors come out, however. Mar 23 13:14:23 * lardman would like to just see some hw come out Mar 23 13:14:46 Yeah. . . . Mar 23 13:15:06 2011s got some high technology on the way Mar 23 13:15:15 sure has Mar 23 13:15:16 and we're still stuck in 2009 Mar 23 13:15:22 GAN900, well atleast to reduce copyright duration to a same level... that atleast I think you can agree with... Mar 23 13:15:22 indeed Mar 23 13:15:30 N900 hardware is like 2010 Mar 23 13:15:33 ruskie, oh completely. Mar 23 13:15:33 erm s/same/sane/ Mar 23 13:15:51 20 years. Mar 23 13:15:59 Nokia way of thinking from 1983 Mar 23 13:15:59 No exceptions or extensions. Mar 23 13:16:10 E0x, 2009. Mar 23 13:16:18 I'd go with extension if copyright is for a real person not a company Mar 23 13:16:24 one time only extension Mar 23 13:16:37 ruskie, violation penalties are out of hand. Mar 23 13:16:52 the original copyright was 14 years with one time extension for a total 28... Mar 23 13:17:18 But the reactionary folks who want to get everybody else's works for free are fools. Mar 23 13:17:34 Copyright enrichens the public domain. Mar 23 13:18:00 sane copyright duration enrichens the public domain Mar 23 13:18:13 50 years and beyond is just insane Mar 23 13:18:40 ruskie, my issue with personal extensions is that it adds too much legalease and complication. Mar 23 13:18:50 true Mar 23 13:18:57 can agree with that Mar 23 13:19:36 how is perfom of laste Firefox in n900? Mar 23 13:19:49 vs microb Mar 23 13:22:23 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/23/jig_jig_can_kill/ <-- hehe Mar 23 13:22:58 MohammadAG: sorry, I can't duplicate that X-Multiple, even for widgets Mar 23 13:23:22 MohammadAG: please can you elaborate which file to edit to achieve what exactly? Mar 23 13:24:15 maybe I'm killing the wrong process? Mar 23 13:27:14 DocScrutinizer, edit /usr/share/applications/hildon-home/mediaplayerhomeapplet.desktop Mar 23 13:27:27 add X-Multiple=true, nothing else needs to be changed Mar 23 13:27:35 then save, exit, killall hildon-home Mar 23 13:27:46 fyi, killing it a lot resets widgets to safe list Mar 23 13:28:12 uhuh Mar 23 13:32:44 MohammadAG: ok, thanks. works like announced Mar 23 13:33:01 what's X-Multiple-instance? Mar 23 13:35:35 no idea, noticed it Mar 23 13:37:40 how to set default browser on maemo5 ? I have installed Firefox but url links from mail klient and from Pidgin calls still this internal browser. Mar 23 13:38:04 browser-switchboard Mar 23 13:41:26 lo.O Mar 23 13:41:40 what's browser-switchboard? A n app? Mar 23 13:41:55 a disaster Mar 23 13:42:00 LOL Mar 23 13:42:21 I'd guess it depends on URL-handlers set in .desktop files Mar 23 13:42:42 maybe I'm biased while editing wiki about .desktop ;-D Mar 23 13:45:16 markinfo: http://wiki.maemo.org/URL_Handler/API_rev2 (unless timeless_xchat hollers) Mar 23 13:58:32 I have installed browser-switchboard changed to other Browser and it works (after restart). Mar 23 13:59:05 .oO(another happy user) Mar 23 14:08:10 MohammadAG: ( probably needs a modded hildon-home ) sounds like a great mini-project for CSSU Mar 23 14:08:52 chem|st: emphasis on 'user' Mar 23 14:10:20 MohammadAG: ...though I guess usually you'll get away with QB widgets acting as .desktop app shortcuts Mar 23 14:10:47 DocScrutinizer, yeah, guess so Mar 23 14:14:27 DocScrutinizer: right but don't forget that we try to make 'everybody' 'happy'^^ Mar 23 14:14:55 chem|st: that'S why I suggested to actually implement it into CSSU hildon-home Mar 23 14:15:13 hildon-desktop? Mar 23 14:15:58 yes, a proper handler for default camera - browser - email - 'and so on' Mar 23 14:16:10 and none of them Mar 23 14:16:29 hildon-home is desktops Mar 23 14:17:02 hildon-desktop is on top of the actual 'top' Mar 23 14:17:08 and behind Mar 23 14:17:23 weird... Mar 23 14:17:32 there's no particular rationale in forbidding addition of several identical app shortcuts. You probably just need to bracket a few lines with a if (! get_config_key("X-Multiple", BOOLEAN){ } Mar 23 14:21:19 and get_config_key() obviously would check the .desktop in /usr/share/applications/hildon rather than .../hildon-home Mar 23 14:21:33 which it does anyway Mar 23 14:21:49 in that context of adding app shortcuts Mar 23 14:24:51 maybe you need to take care to make some unique identifiers for e.g gconf keys, or wherever the shortcuts are stored Mar 23 14:46:18 Bored. Want more exciting mail threads. Mar 23 14:53:04 ~csu Mar 23 14:53:13 ~wtf Mar 23 14:56:15 toggles: ~cssu Mar 23 14:56:17 ~cssu Mar 23 14:56:17 rumour has it, cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU Mar 23 14:56:29 GAN900: Indeed. Mar 23 14:56:47 Hello world Mar 23 15:01:04 timeless_n8, which IRC app are you using? Mar 23 15:10:35 Jaffa: grazie, i googled, was feeling lazy.. Mar 23 15:17:15 Really is Maemo all over again. The threads just trickle down to nothing without anything meaningful getting accomplished. Mar 23 15:20:01 MohammadAG: there's such a thing as ctcp version ;) Mar 23 15:20:22 merlin1991, most mobile apps don't support it Mar 23 15:20:25 at least on symbian Mar 23 15:20:38 lol, mIRGGI Mar 23 15:21:16 hi, how do I edit my n900's list of wireless networks? Mar 23 15:22:04 There are two ad-hoc networks that keep show up on top everywhere, just because I happen to use them once Mar 23 15:22:15 tzafrir, settings internet connections. Mar 23 15:23:58 I can't find bluemaemo Mar 23 15:24:34 I have extras and extras testing Mar 23 15:28:54 anyone know what daemon responds for Calendar alarms trigerring? It's making me crazy when I miss remind. What should be restarted (i don't want to restart whole N900) Mar 23 15:33:41 is it alarmd? Mar 23 15:43:11 re Mar 23 15:43:34 ah, another afternoon wasted doing bitty things Mar 23 15:44:36 I really wish I had an office so I could ignore people coming to ask me questions Mar 23 15:51:45 lardman, earplugs? Mar 23 15:52:00 yeah, then they tap me on the shoulder Mar 23 15:52:23 and if I break their wrists I can hear them through the earplugs, so not a useful solution ;) Mar 23 15:57:08 Maybe you should mount a shotgun on the front of your desk. Mar 23 15:58:22 with an quick reales! Mar 23 15:59:34 in case of an zombi invation! Mar 23 16:07:09 The N900, can it act as a bluetooth headset? Mar 23 16:08:06 I think that I've found this little bastard. After restarting hildon-sv-notification-daemon all calendar alarms (reminders) are working again, so there is no need to restart whole N900 to make them working again :) Mar 23 16:09:13 OkropNick: nice find. what's the problem it solves? Mar 23 16:11:05 DocScrutinizer: it's resolving problem with calendar alarms. after '/etc/init.d/hildon-sv-notification-daemon restart' calendar alarms are working again without need to reboot N900. I'll put it to fcrom. Mar 23 16:11:20 OkropNick: if the process fails frequently, I suggest starting it via dsme Mar 23 16:11:44 DocScrutinizer: any hints? Mar 23 16:11:57 dsmetool --help Mar 23 16:12:44 OkropNick, I don't even have that file Mar 23 16:13:21 what's NB#116766? Mar 23 16:15:06 MohammadAG: which file you heven't: dsmetool or hildon-sv-notification-daemon? Mar 23 16:15:13 a nokiabug? Mar 23 16:15:22 hildon-sv-notification-daemon Mar 23 16:15:30 DocScrutinizer51, need the description Mar 23 16:15:45 strange, I'll search what is that Mar 23 16:16:10 ps|grep hildon-sv Mar 23 16:16:46 I meant the init script Mar 23 16:17:59 hmm, me neither Mar 23 16:19:41 MohammadAG: sorry, my mistake Mar 23 16:21:07 MohammadAG, DocScrutinizer : it is not service, after kill -9 of hildon-sv-notification-daemon which is here /usr/bin/hildon-sv-notification-daemon all this program was restarted and all calendar reminds started to working again Mar 23 16:21:30 many typos, sorry Mar 23 16:21:30 then it's started by dsmetool by default Mar 23 16:21:57 but I'm hapy that I know what to restart Mar 23 16:24:42 OkropNick: I'd appreciate when you'd find out where it hangs, so we could fix the root cause. Maybe you can do a full ps, even a strace and/or attach gdb, then bt Mar 23 16:25:27 I will be glad, but I don't know how to debug, need some help. I'm just PHP coder Mar 23 16:26:24 np, but only later, I'm almost biking ATM Mar 23 16:26:35 DocScrutinizer: can you write some sh script that I can run in background to catch this error? Mar 23 16:26:41 I'll ping you Mar 23 16:26:49 DocScrutinizer: ok Mar 23 16:35:57 not kill -9 hildon-sv-notification-daemon but killall hildon-sv-notification-daemon - I have fever today, ehhh - many mistakes... Mar 23 16:51:03 I guess I should read over the TSG logs from the last meeting. Mar 23 16:51:39 * GeneralAntilles doesn't have as much faith as Carsten seems to about Imad addressing the arch discussion. Mar 23 16:56:21 whazup allz Mar 23 16:56:40 GeneralAntilles: ?? Mar 23 16:57:35 can someone enlighten what it would take to make firefox start up somewhere near as quickly as microb does, even if just theoretically? just faster cpu could do it? how is microb so fast, what are they not doing? Mar 23 16:58:12 preloaded Mar 23 16:58:55 GeneralAntilles: I have a hard time taking people saying that the "communication of the decision was excellent" serious on that list as well... Mar 23 16:58:59 Start firefox with a blank tab Mar 23 16:59:13 At boot Mar 23 16:59:21 "sup guys we are switching most of the backends, we wont tell you why or based on what but now we are doing it" Mar 23 16:59:22 exactly Mar 23 16:59:47 frals: ?? Mar 23 16:59:56 DocScrutinizer: meego-dev Mar 23 17:00:01 ouch Mar 23 17:00:20 frals: you mean current? Or historical perspective? Mar 23 17:00:26 SpeedEvil: ive kept it open, but it still feels like it makes the phone lag too much, swapping or somesuch? Mar 23 17:00:33 hope they switch for the better. esp things like sensorfw Mar 23 17:00:35 SpeedEvil: current Mar 23 17:00:43 macmaN: yes, it probably does. You can kill microb though Mar 23 17:00:49 frals: Oh joy. Mar 23 17:00:57 * SpeedEvil has been here before. Mar 23 17:01:06 DocScrutinizer: they decided to switch PIM backends mostly Mar 23 17:01:14 (though my neo1973 was significantly less functional than the n900) Mar 23 17:01:42 GeneralAntilles: Just skip to 15:32. MeeGo governance wasn't on the agenda, and so was "dealt" with under AOB Mar 23 17:01:48 frals: whatever, it's exactly this mindset and procedures that is pissing me off Mar 23 17:02:40 DocScrutinizer: yeah... the architecture decisions should really be public Mar 23 17:02:49 SpeedEvil: kill microb? hardly Mar 23 17:03:06 frals: DocScrutinizer: you can - kill it three times, and it stays dead. Mar 23 17:03:11 Or am I confused again. Mar 23 17:03:14 lol Mar 23 17:03:26 :) Mar 23 17:03:27 prollly 10 times Mar 23 17:03:47 btw whats the recommended package to make camera key launch something Mar 23 17:03:50 and pray to god [diety of choice] its not guarded by watchdog? ;) Mar 23 17:03:50 bbl Mar 23 17:03:51 i'm seeing shortcutd Mar 23 17:10:19 I could kill it 1000 times Mar 23 17:13:16 awesome, shortcutd does exactly what i wanted Mar 23 17:13:25 and proximity sensor button is cool too Mar 23 17:29:12 argh Mar 23 17:29:20 took me like five attempts to boot my phone just now Mar 23 17:29:26 remember when i said that it's horrible at booting? Mar 23 17:29:29 well, i recorded it Mar 23 17:29:35 i had to go via backupmenu Mar 23 17:29:45 korhojoa send it to nokla Mar 23 17:32:42 ZogG, yeah, well. i've already gotten a phone back from nokia with the same amount of faults that i sent it in with Mar 23 17:32:56 korhojoa: are these same faults or different ones? Mar 23 17:33:18 say to them you want n950+ Mar 23 17:33:41 jacekowski, i sent it in with a torn off microusb, got one back with bright dots all over the screen Mar 23 17:33:44 'yay' Mar 23 17:33:58 send it back again Mar 23 17:34:14 also the camera lens is all messy Mar 23 17:34:24 i'm just afraid i'll get something inferior back Mar 23 17:34:31 ie, e7 or n8 or something Mar 23 17:34:37 "whoops, sorry" Mar 23 17:35:03 when I got mine back after they replaced a speaker, it was also all messy and had one key in the upper row with a weird tactile feedback Mar 23 17:35:30 that n900 never exited the repair center. Mar 23 17:35:38 :D Mar 23 17:35:39 dont mean to interrupt, but is there way to assign long-press-zoom-keys to something Mar 23 17:35:46 a way* Mar 23 17:36:02 next week I got back an _extremely_ cleaned up n900 with no keyboard problems whatsoever. Mar 23 17:36:07 korhojoa: so yes, send it back again. Mar 23 17:39:18 javispedro, oh well. i hope i just get mine back Mar 23 17:39:23 it took a month to get it back Mar 23 17:39:40 and i don't understand why they kept the back cover as the old one Mar 23 17:39:48 i don't see why Mar 23 17:40:43 korhojoa, javispedro they just mix the n900 sent to repair and sent back to other addresses Mar 23 17:41:09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu1jEQKk2YY Mar 23 17:42:58 i wonder is the proximity sensor going to fire all the time when the phone is in your pocket Mar 23 17:45:27 frals, if I'm not mistaked, I believe the governance docs concur. Mar 23 17:45:53 wow. video quality on the 3710 fold is pretty bad Mar 23 17:46:23 DocScrutinizer51, did you see this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu1jEQKk2YY Mar 23 17:50:32 what? 7:30 of boredom? Mar 23 17:58:42 hello can someone paste me "ls -l /dev | grep video" from maemo device ? Mar 23 17:59:04 my dev/video0 is gone and i want to try mknod a new one Mar 23 18:00:14 81,2 video0 and 81,1 video1 Mar 23 18:00:18 ty Mar 23 18:00:23 crw-rw---- 1 root video 81, 2 Jan 1 1970 /dev/video0 Mar 23 18:00:35 crw-rw---- 1 root video 81, 1 Jan 1 1970 /dev/video1 Mar 23 18:02:39 hmm, isn't that supposed to get created by udev? Mar 23 18:02:55 cant help it if its gone Mar 23 18:03:07 personally, i wouldn't try mknod Mar 23 18:03:17 that's unlikely to dtrt tm Mar 23 18:03:22 can't hurt Mar 23 18:03:37 dtrt tm? Mar 23 18:03:42 udevadm trigger or such Mar 23 18:04:03 reboot! Mar 23 18:04:09 nonsense! Mar 23 18:04:11 ;) Mar 23 18:04:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReBoot Mar 23 18:04:32 do the right thing Mar 23 18:05:41 well didnt work Mar 23 18:05:54 * timeless_xchat is shocked Mar 23 18:05:58 :p Mar 23 18:06:17 no video in /etc/udev/* Mar 23 18:06:50 where ecactly? Mar 23 18:07:25 to be clear i dont even know when it stopped working Mar 23 18:08:53 /etc/udev/rules.d/91-permissions.rules:# video devices Mar 23 18:09:46 well i have some Mar 23 18:09:57 and i suppose video4linux is the one Mar 23 18:22:06 Jaffa, really is too much of a pain to keep up with all the comms mwkn doesn't keep up with because they're too small or inappropriate. Mar 23 18:31:07 GAN900: Can cover inconsequential stuff as well Mar 23 18:32:36 * timeless_xchat sighs Mar 23 18:33:00 so, some idiot signed timeless@gmail up for mail from the ronald reagan library Mar 23 18:33:48 unsubscribe? Mar 23 18:34:03 hi Mar 23 18:34:10 any scratchbox gurus around Mar 23 18:34:17 mohammadag : no Mar 23 18:35:00 mailing lists should be fixed to not automatically add w/o sending a conf email and having a reply/click to confirm Mar 23 18:35:20 Most mailing lists are. Mar 23 18:35:21 ... specially when the email address matches *timeless* ;) Mar 23 18:35:58 javispedro : sure, that'll work too ;) Mar 23 18:39:25 Jaffa, could, but it's tough to cover the gossipy stuff. Mar 23 18:42:26 GAN900: Depends how gossipy it is, and whether we can spin a line about importance. Mar 23 18:50:09 just for the record, uninstalling fcam-drivers and rebooting solved missing /dev/video problem Mar 23 18:52:20 banan: thanks for that Mar 23 18:52:47 whoever that was with the battery... I can still show 0% 5mA discharging with bme readings... Mar 23 18:53:06 now for about 4 hours Mar 23 18:53:59 ehrm ok no it shows flat since 18:30 Mar 23 18:54:14 in my time zone it is now 19:50 Mar 23 18:54:41 tried several things while in that state... Mar 23 18:54:54 to actualy drain more power Mar 23 18:55:03 right.. so noone around - need to hack it myself Mar 23 18:55:05 :-) Mar 23 18:55:32 JakeS3: no gurus here... ask your question... Mar 23 19:06:45 Jaffa, definitely need to see what we can synthesize about the whole arch and governance issue. Mar 23 19:27:44 hello have a problem Mar 23 19:28:43 I have deleted my root file system on the nokia n900 and I'm not on it what can I do? Mar 23 19:30:07 Jarock, reflash Mar 23 19:30:10 ~flashing Mar 23 19:30:11 hmm... flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Mar 23 19:30:29 have a problem Mar 23 19:31:47 I can not flash because it says ra-51 not found Mar 23 19:34:02 Image ‘secondary’, size 109440 bytes Valid for RX-51: 2201, 2202, 2203, 2204, 2205, 2206, 2207, 2208, 2209, 2 210, 2211, 2212, 2213, 2214, 2215, 2216 ... Mar 23 19:34:46 This message comes up in every image Mar 23 19:35:22 paste terminal output somewhere and link it Mar 23 19:35:34 ok mom Mar 23 19:38:01 http://pastebin.com/prNm3FXp Mar 23 19:40:42 this may sound like silly question but you do have n900 not some n800 right? Mar 23 19:41:01 i have n900 Mar 23 19:41:20 what other images have you tried? Mar 23 19:42:38 no, no other image've tried Mar 23 19:43:09 I'm sorry my english is not so good Mar 23 19:43:16 where are you from? Mar 23 19:43:59 germany Mar 23 19:44:15 there is newer firmware than the one you tried Mar 23 19:44:25 RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin Mar 23 19:44:36 try it Mar 23 19:45:24 ok I have another question Mar 23 19:46:31 ask Mar 23 19:48:41 is this image better: RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13 2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin Mar 23 19:49:33 yea you might need vanilla tho it will deleta all from your emmc Mar 23 19:50:10 I see a lot about Forum is thus often used ^^ Mar 23 19:50:14 ah okey Mar 23 19:50:41 that isn't "better", both images serve a different purpose Mar 23 19:50:52 one flashes rootfs, one flashes the eMMC Mar 23 19:51:08 you needn't flash the eMMC unless you really messed up (in partitioning and such) Mar 23 19:51:21 he deleted his rootfs Mar 23 19:51:28 you never know what else Mar 23 19:51:29 Is "tset" available in maemo (for N900)? That's to set colours in the terminal window. Mar 23 19:51:33 how? Mar 23 19:51:48 ah ok thanks Mar 23 19:52:01 he didnt say Mar 23 19:52:12 jarock how did you delete the rootfs? Mar 23 19:54:32 I've logged in root mode since then "cd / " (accidentally) I wanted to delete a read-only directory for this command "rm-rf" Mar 23 19:55:08 after 10 seconds everything was gone Mar 23 19:55:28 lol Mar 23 19:55:55 oops. Mar 23 19:56:04 sorry but cant stop laughing ... these things always make me laugh Mar 23 19:56:22 yeah, umm, I'd say reflash the eMMC too... Mar 23 19:56:45 just make sure what's left is stuff you backed up Mar 23 19:56:52 flashing is not starting Mar 23 19:57:00 which wouldn't be a lot since /home/user and /home/user/MyDocs are under /... Mar 23 19:57:36 take out battery, plug USB, start flasher (it'll say device not found), put the battery back in Mar 23 19:58:09 and get the latest image, it'll save you updates Mar 23 19:58:10 ok mom Mar 23 19:59:55 lol windoof lol I have solved problem Mar 23 20:01:06 "-" must be entered manually copy-paste works by not Mar 23 20:02:07 yeah it works thank you all Mar 23 20:02:24 gz Mar 23 20:02:52 but im guessing that youll still need emmc flashed first Mar 23 20:03:23 just remember to read that b4 you start http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Flashing_the_eMMC_in_the_N900 Mar 23 20:06:18 ok bb lots have fun :-) Mar 23 20:07:52 Is "tset" available in maemo (for N900)? That's to set colours in the terminal window. Mar 23 20:09:35 I think I meant "tput". Mar 23 20:17:00 so... Mar 23 20:17:30 n900 keyboard requires holding Fn key (blue arrow) to type some letters Mar 23 20:17:58 now the question is: how the hell i'm supposed to type capital letter that requires fn? Mar 23 20:18:37 and no, holding both fn and shift still produces lower case Mar 23 20:19:03 what?? Mar 23 20:19:06 you don't have to hold it Mar 23 20:19:10 just press it and then press the other key Mar 23 20:19:39 "it"? Mar 23 20:19:45 the key Mar 23 20:19:58 I wonder what your language is because Mar 23 20:20:05 I don't have letters if I press the Fn, just symbols Mar 23 20:20:14 press/release fn, hold shift +press letter still gives lower case Mar 23 20:20:20 cyrillic, ю Mar 23 20:20:22 alterego, ping Mar 23 20:20:30 oh dunno... Mar 23 20:20:45 Venemo: pong Mar 23 20:20:46 on the right of space Mar 23 20:20:48 press shift twice and then press fn and then the key Mar 23 20:21:21 holy crap Mar 23 20:21:28 it works that way, yep Mar 23 20:21:32 :) Mar 23 20:21:46 and don't tell me that's userfriendly Mar 23 20:22:13 I think if you press shift first, then Fn, and then they key, it'd also work Mar 23 20:23:17 no Mar 23 20:23:45 oh :( Mar 23 20:23:56 well then you'd have to stick with the double shift press trick Mar 23 20:26:42 for some bizzaire (spelling error?) reason, today was the first (in 1.5 years) day when i wanted to type capital Ю :) Mar 23 20:29:27 ~spell bizzaire Mar 23 20:29:30 possible spellings for bizzaire: bizarre Zaire bizarres buzzard Blaire buzzer brazier boozier bare barre bizarrely biliary blare braise bazaar Mar 23 20:29:50 s/air/ar/ Mar 23 20:29:50 slonopotamus meant: for some bizzare (spelling error?) reason, today was the first (in 1.5 years) day when i wanted to type capital Ю :) Mar 23 20:30:35 oh, crap, one Z, two R :) Mar 23 21:13:03 MohammadAG: 3:38h now at 0% 5mAh left (just to keep you postet how bad bme is in reality...) Mar 23 21:14:41 heh Mar 23 21:14:44 MohammadAG: how do I reset the battery calibration? Mar 23 21:15:08 MohammadAG: wasnt it you mocking around with the bq i2c readings? Mar 23 21:15:12 why didn't anyone port Osu to maemo yet? Mar 23 21:15:24 me and DocScrutinizer, mostly DocScrutinizer Mar 23 21:15:26 kerio: what is Osu Mar 23 21:15:33 but he knows i2c, I don't Mar 23 21:15:42 then DocScrutinizer the above for you^^ Mar 23 21:15:46 I just complain how my meter drops from 50% to 0 Mar 23 21:15:50 chem|st: a clone of ouendan/elite beat agents/ouendan 2 for the pc Mar 23 21:16:12 ah ok, that explains "Osu" Mar 23 21:16:16 so how do I reset the battery? Mar 23 21:16:55 draining it dead does not help it... (that happened 2 charges ago by itself) Mar 23 21:18:55 Are you running a mugen2400 or similar? Mar 23 21:22:05 and what thing is reporting "0% 5nAh"? Mar 23 21:22:43 mAh* Mar 23 21:23:05 dOH! Mar 23 21:28:36 if that's returned by bme, it's uncalibrateable Mar 23 21:28:44 isn't there an oversized battery for an n900? Mar 23 21:28:48 Yes Mar 23 21:29:44 ShadowJK: Do you know where to get them on the Web? I've not had much luck. Mar 23 21:31:22 krayon, http://www.google.com/m?q=extended+N900+battery Mar 23 21:31:37 krayon: there is abattery with more capacity that fits the original n900 Mar 23 21:31:44 first hit http://www.mugen-power-batteries.com/mugen-power-nokia-n900-2400mah-extended-replacement-battery-with-battery-door.html Mar 23 21:35:16 How much is a external charger for the N900? Mar 23 21:35:28 nobody answered me - why isn't there a port of Osu? Mar 23 21:35:31 :( Mar 23 21:37:46 krayon: THe price isn't really justifiable Mar 23 21:42:53 krayon: You could have 10 batteries for that price Mar 23 21:43:21 lolcat, so a couple of weeks later he will have 11 flat batteries. Mar 23 21:45:58 lcuk: He could have an external charger with room for two batteries Mar 23 21:46:39 is there a guide with really clear photos leading to the usb port online? Mar 23 21:47:00 to let people work out for themselves if they could have a look/try at fixing them themselves Mar 23 21:47:14 afterall, we encourage OS level hacking :) Mar 23 21:47:23 why not hardware fixes too? Mar 23 21:48:09 lcuk: sabotage seemed to get quite offended when I said I was writing my own dialer code :/ Mar 23 21:48:15 Because most people don't haver the soldering equipment or skills Mar 23 21:48:28 alterego, I can understand that Mar 23 21:48:30 lcuk: Maybe I should just work on their one. Mar 23 21:48:37 what do you want to fix on the hardware level? :/ Mar 23 21:49:08 alterego, :) sabotage has MUCH MUCH more experience in the dialer than you could grasp in a reasonable timeframe Mar 23 21:49:47 Well, admittedly he knows the 3GPP specs better than I. But I pretty much know ofono off by heart now. Mar 23 21:49:53 you do need to work together properly, he has been doing the real dialer work now for years Mar 23 21:50:10 he knows what he is talking about, follow his lead rather than rushing ahead Mar 23 21:50:31 m'kay Mar 23 21:50:44 btw, I'm talking to you hear because he's not here ;) Mar 23 21:50:53 I understand. Mar 23 21:53:14 Hurp, and my dialer code was looking so good Mar 23 21:54:38 Can you please help me, I can't install updates with either stock or faster application manager! Mar 23 21:54:38 here is a log generated by fapman: http://pastebin.com/MsrBL2pX I can't make anything of it though. Qgvdial shows up several times, but though I know I installed it, it's not in the main menu and not in the list of installed items. Mar 23 21:54:40 alterego, the dialer as it stands has most of the wiring plumbed in and is not green code. Mar 23 21:55:05 :/ Mar 23 21:55:11 so to find the simplest way to linkup that with the qml frontend would be part of it Mar 23 21:55:44 Well, the problem is there isn't much clear MVC seperation Mar 23 21:55:48 ~separation. Mar 23 21:56:03 There's a lot of intertwined MeeGo Touch crap Mar 23 21:56:15 alterego, talk to sabotage and the guys in handset Mar 23 21:56:25 there might be Mar 23 22:04:40 http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1tJI87sRhZ0/TVaKY5tSI1I/AAAAAAAAAnQ/H-o5p7y-7v8/s1600/Selection_064.png Mar 23 22:04:50 nice Mar 23 22:04:56 nokia-> samsung Mar 23 22:07:36 Hrm .. Mar 23 22:07:44 Another linux mobile os :/ Mar 23 22:19:31 Is this the thing raster was talking about? Mar 23 22:19:40 Lotta proprietary shit in there. Mar 23 22:19:58 yeah, lots of obvious fail Mar 23 22:21:11 WebOS-style Mar 23 22:22:15 moo Mar 23 22:23:04 moo pupnik Mar 23 22:23:09 Bleh Mar 23 22:23:21 Why can't we just have something useful and fun? Mar 23 22:23:40 because you'll break it! Mar 23 22:25:03 I thought it was going to be xorg and stuff Mar 23 22:25:42 it is, with enlightment Mar 23 22:25:56 more blue than nokia Mar 23 22:25:58 :/ Mar 23 22:26:27 (the webos-style remark comes from the level of openness and upstreamness, which is, well, webos-like) Mar 23 22:27:25 Well the Xorg glib gtk enlightenment side of it is cool Mar 23 22:29:43 well.. especially the hw drivers look scary Mar 23 22:31:53 * lardman wonders which drivers these are Mar 23 22:32:48 you can bet the usual ones ( 3d ) Mar 23 22:33:47 Also listed are wifi and usb (huh?) Mar 23 22:35:30 that is probably something like icd2 Mar 23 22:35:34 not the actual driver Mar 23 22:36:49 imho the biggest problem with this platform is that it is in a worse situation that post-elopcalypse meego in nokiasoft. Mar 23 22:37:03 because samsung has bada and android, and neither of those two is doing badly. Mar 23 22:37:24 bada is their symbian, android is the thing they want to get rid of Mar 23 22:38:00 bada? they virtually just invented it. Mar 23 22:38:20 it's only relatively few years old, hardly symbian level Mar 23 22:38:47 and _all_ of their content on mwc was about it (save for the droid tablets...) Mar 23 22:38:54 In the sense that it's their inexpensive midrange thing Mar 23 22:39:09 why does samsung wanna stick with gtk? why not qt? Mar 23 22:39:23 why not Tcl/Tk? Why not EFL? ... oops. Mar 23 22:39:32 "stick with"? Mar 23 22:39:39 They've not done it yet :P Mar 23 22:40:06 It certainly wont attract much developers .. Mar 23 22:40:31 I suspect EFL is for that Mar 23 22:40:39 oh, well, they designed the thing based on gtk, seems Mar 23 22:40:52 because "the thing" is the ACCESS linux platform Mar 23 22:40:56 which was gtk+ based Mar 23 22:41:41 then suddenly moved into the EFL realm. Mar 23 22:42:15 * javispedro feels déjà vu Mar 23 22:42:22 You can go talk to raster over in #e if you want the gory details Mar 23 22:44:08 is it possible to prevent microb to go back on pressing backspace? Mar 23 22:44:17 its really annoying Mar 23 22:44:26 anyone using twimgo? Mar 23 22:45:34 wow ovi maps is so horrible :) Mar 23 22:45:56 someone should port google nav Mar 23 22:45:57 heh Mar 23 22:46:01 how do u change to task switching mode from twimgo? since it hides the title bar Mar 23 22:46:07 Macer: we haven't known this for 1.5 years now? :P Mar 23 22:46:25 wmarone_: longer.. but i gave it the benefit of the doubt Mar 23 22:46:28 and tried it Mar 23 22:46:37 it is HORRIBLE Mar 23 22:46:52 Is google nav open sourced? Mar 23 22:46:55 yes, why do you think my TomTom still sees regular use? Mar 23 22:47:00 turbowei: Ctrl+backspace. Mar 23 22:47:08 mapero is better but still sucks compared to google nav Mar 23 22:47:15 wmarone_: haha Mar 23 22:47:36 er.. i meanr wmarone_ Mar 23 22:47:40 mappero is better??????????? Mar 23 22:47:43 oh. read that wrong Mar 23 22:47:52 i think better than ovi maps yes Mar 23 22:48:16 still crappy tho Mar 23 22:48:19 :) Mar 23 22:48:21 but better Mar 23 22:48:22 Ovi Maps Symbian is really nice, and works without internet connection :/ Mar 23 22:48:31 it doesn't have 3d mode even Mar 23 22:48:35 Ovi Maps Maemo feels like some intern's javascript project Mar 23 22:48:46 ShadowJK: hahaha Mar 23 22:48:52 that's harsh Mar 23 22:49:00 the interface is so so so bad Mar 23 22:49:09 google nav is .. say address... works heh Mar 23 22:49:21 but needs net connection Mar 23 22:49:33 ShadowJK: ovi maps maemo works without internet connection too Mar 23 22:49:38 i am driving from chicago to washington state... so i am sure i will be in the sticks Mar 23 22:49:46 turbowei, not routing Mar 23 22:50:08 ShadowJK: that is only an issue if you leave the route ;) Mar 23 22:51:18 right... and the crappiness of gps nav is only an issue if you ever go somewhere unfamiliar Mar 23 22:51:39 turbowei, either ctrl-backspace or install proximityd and use the camera button. Mar 23 22:52:06 ShadowJK: Yeah I was thinking a bit cheaper than that. lolcat: True, I already have 4 batteries and an external charger. I just carry pre-charged with me and swap out during the day. Mar 23 22:52:34 GAN900: is that about my twimgo question? Mar 23 22:53:31 oh, the search in ovi maps maemo is nice Mar 23 22:53:46 The way I did navigation without internet is just pre-loading all the maps for mappero and then planning the route before hand. You can save them too. And I don't need turn by turn anyway, just want a vague idea of where I'm going and where I am does me :P Mar 23 22:54:04 turbowei, yes. Mar 23 22:54:29 GAN900: thanks! Mar 23 22:55:07 krayon: how do u save maps for mappero? Mar 23 22:55:29 turbowei: No I just meant the maps download and then you don't need to download them again. Mar 23 22:55:46 turbowei: I personally brought them across from my carPC which runs TangoGPS. Mar 23 22:56:11 But I think you can do a bulk download from OpenStreetMaps if the area isn't TOO big. Mar 23 22:56:44 hmm, i have sygic Mar 23 22:56:49 I havent seen any satnav with nice solution for language issues yet Mar 23 23:00:25 turbowei: That looks interesting. Does it require a network connection to do route planning? Mar 23 23:00:53 no Mar 23 23:01:13 u need to mcopy map files Mar 23 23:08:54 turbowei: I don't think they support Australian maps for the maemo version :/ Mar 23 23:48:04 Could someone please press Shift-Fn-J on your N900 and see if two characters come out instead of 1? Also Shift-Fn-K. That's what happens for me, and I don't know if it's a hardware bug. I can't for the life of me see anything wrong with the keymap file. Mar 23 23:48:08 6h into 0% 5mAh 3591mbattery now still running smooth... Mar 23 23:48:49 kwtm: that is not a bug that is the hardware mapping Mar 23 23:49:13 chem|st: Oh, it does that automatically? WHy do two characters come out? What is it for? Mar 23 23:49:31 kwtm: somewhere in the wiki is a roster Mar 23 23:49:45 krayon: How do you do a bulk download for Mappero? Is there a directory where I would store my downloaded maps? Mar 23 23:50:14 chem|st: Okay ... but is there a reason why there are two characters that come out when I press a single (albeit chorded) key? Mar 23 23:50:43 kwtm: fn and shift do different things on the same row so you get two chars one for fn and one for shift Mar 23 23:51:08 you mean by just pressing "J"? Mar 23 23:52:17 chem|st: I'm not sure if we're on the same page. To clarify: I've mapped it so that Shift-Fn-H, for example, gives the character "[" (yes, originally it gave the character "(" but I remapped it). However, Shift-Fn-J gives the two characters "]{" even though I only mapped the single character "]" to Shift-Fn-J. I don't know why the "{" comes out. Mar 23 23:52:18 it is like you cannot press F1-F4 at the same time on most desktop keyboards Mar 23 23:52:44 Further investigation shows that, no matter what I map to Shift-Fn-J, the character for Shift-Fn-K also comes out (even though I didn't press it). Mar 23 23:53:09 kwtm: yes you get two even if mapped only for one as you are sending 2 keys Mar 23 23:53:23 I have now mapped Shift-Fn-B to "]" and this works properly. Mar 23 23:53:43 chem|st: I guess I still don't understand. Why does Shift-Fn-H only give 1 character, but Shift-Fn-J give 2 characters? Mar 23 23:54:06 I found no other problems with Shift-Fn- other than J and K. Mar 23 23:54:37 they are actualy the same Mar 23 23:54:55 by pressing fn you connect both lanes Mar 23 23:55:00 I found that Shift-Fn-K also gives "]{" even though I mapped it to only "{"; I don't know why "]" comes out. Mar 23 23:55:11 so shift fn J gives JK Mar 23 23:55:27 kwtm: that is the hardwarelayout Mar 23 23:55:45 chem|st: Ahh... I see, so Shift-Fn-J and Shift-Fn-K are the same key. Okay, well, I don't know why it was made that way, but at least I know it's not my mistake... Mar 23 23:56:09 ~keyboard Mar 23 23:56:10 methinks keyboard is The main input device on PCs, it consists of all the letters in the alphabet and the numbers 0 through 9. Usually, especially on computer keyboards, there are extra keys like cursor keys and function keys. Mar 23 23:56:28 ~botsnack Mar 23 23:56:29 aw, gee, chem|st Mar 23 23:57:27 kwtm: somewhere in the wiki is a graph where you see the actual mapping on hardware and by connecting rows and column you get double hits with shift+fn Mar 23 23:57:56 JK arent the only matches Mar 23 23:58:07 Oh, not just JK? i better be careful. Mar 23 23:58:24 Thanks for the info. Mar 23 23:58:37 YX Mar 23 23:59:28 for ctrl+fn HJ Mar 23 23:59:33 and so on Mar 24 00:00:12 No wonder the default does not use Shift-Fn for character entry. Mar 24 00:00:27 and V$down Mar 24 00:00:35 there are some connections Mar 24 00:01:21 it is a design decision they had to make Mar 24 00:03:10 ~kbd Mar 24 00:03:10 Keytable files and keyboard utilities. URL: ftp://ftp.win.tue.nl/pub/linux/utils/kbd/ Mar 24 00:06:09 hey, can anybody help with my Maemo app manager, it kinda stopped working... Mar 24 00:08:23 here is a log created by fapman: http://pastebin.com/MsrBL2pX Mar 24 00:08:49 fast app manager? Mar 24 00:08:53 yes Mar 24 00:08:57 no idea Mar 24 00:09:22 but stock app manager has the same problems Mar 24 00:09:52 qgvdial seems to have to do with the problem Mar 24 00:10:14 i installed it, but it's not in the main menu Mar 24 00:10:32 and neither in the list of installed items Mar 24 00:26:24 Hopefully we'll have more popcorn discussion by tomorrow. Mar 24 00:34:49 is there a way to uninstall microb? Mar 24 00:35:09 i did apt-get remove osso-browser, but that keeps the /usr/bin/browser executable Mar 24 00:38:30 * GeneralAntilles *facepalms* @ "I think one thing that I would like to do is to start scheduling a phone conference TSG" Mar 24 01:23:46 well uninstalling microb made the OS go through a crazy reboot recycle Mar 24 01:25:30 Microb is a watchdogged process Mar 24 01:25:36 If it can't start, it will reboot Mar 24 01:25:48 Sorry - I diddn't catch you saying that earlier Mar 24 01:26:36 microb is watchdogged? why would they think that's a good idea Mar 24 01:27:57 jade: do you like sms? Mar 24 01:28:01 because it uses microb Mar 24 01:28:11 why would anyone want to support sms? Mar 24 01:28:13 * timeless_w7ip has no idea Mar 24 01:28:20 maybe you prefer gtalk and friends? Mar 24 01:28:22 sms uses microb? Mar 24 01:28:25 same thing. Mar 24 01:28:26 yes. Mar 24 01:28:26 well i rarely use sms myself Mar 24 01:28:30 or even phone calls Mar 24 01:28:31 skype is pretty handy Mar 24 01:28:32 skype? Mar 24 01:28:39 Conversations uses microb Mar 24 01:28:45 why Mar 24 01:28:54 something needs to render your conversations Mar 24 01:28:54 why would they think that's a good idea Mar 24 01:29:00 would you prefer GtkHtml? Mar 24 01:29:16 and please realize i'm >< close to calling you an idiot and going to sleep Mar 24 01:29:30 microb is part of the platform Mar 24 01:29:35 and it makes sense to use it Mar 24 01:29:44 that's part of what it means to be in a platform Mar 24 01:29:51 the same way that windows uses MSHTML all over the place Mar 24 01:30:01 the same way that OS X uses WebKit all over the place Mar 24 01:30:13 everyone needs something which can fluidly render content Mar 24 01:30:22 traditional toolkits fail miserably at this Mar 24 01:30:29 otoh web browsers are *designed* for this Mar 24 01:30:35 the web browser for the n900 was microb Mar 24 01:30:47 and thus it was the *obvious* choice for use in the rest of the platform Mar 24 01:30:56 it also is not a bad agent for such a task Mar 24 01:31:15 now please apologize to everyone who worked hard to deliver the product you hold in your hands Mar 24 01:35:44 i see Mar 24 01:36:05 * timeless_w7ip is waiting for something more than "i see" Mar 24 01:36:25 i was only wondering why they made it be like it is Mar 24 01:37:11 please watch your tone Mar 24 01:37:31 a statement like "why would X be a good idea" is naturally interpretted as a sarcastic insult Mar 24 01:37:40 you still owe the team an apology Mar 24 01:48:58 [21:22] Microb is a watchdogged process Mar 24 01:48:59 [21:22] If it can't start, it will reboot Mar 24 01:49:28 shame, imo opera and firefox make microb useless Mar 24 01:55:23 really? Mar 24 01:55:32 i use both and find myself switching back to microb regularly Mar 24 01:55:53 similarly, i use a bunch of browsers on os x and w7 and i tend to fall back to the native browsers there too Mar 24 01:56:07 as for life guarding, you have root on these devices Mar 24 01:56:14 you're free to totally fsck them up any way you like Mar 24 01:56:21 and we're free to ignore you when you brick them Mar 24 01:56:28 you can remove life guarding Mar 24 01:56:37 you can also delete the cellular stack if you try hard enough Mar 24 01:56:39 fennec is slow, opera can't play flash, go figure Mar 24 01:56:52 fennec ootb doesn't do flash either.. Mar 24 01:57:05 but again, you're welcome to use them Mar 24 01:57:09 the latest opera is shiny Mar 24 01:57:13 yeah with hacks it can, that's something I'll need to do Mar 24 01:57:22 * timeless_w7ip likes its scroll to top/scroll to bottom feature Mar 24 01:57:32 oh, iirc it's just pref'd off Mar 24 01:57:38 but that's part of (out of the box) Mar 24 01:57:53 the story wrt opera and flash is quite sad actually Mar 24 01:58:04 wrt? Mar 24 01:58:06 nokia made a mess of flash-opera in maemo Mar 24 01:58:13 lol Mar 24 01:58:24 there's huge threads discussing about flash notably too Mar 24 01:58:26 when nokia initially developed the 770, it wanted everything to be gtk based Mar 24 01:58:43 so it insisted that opera provide a gtk wrapper for opera Mar 24 01:59:01 so like Mar 24 01:59:12 all my catalogs are gone Mar 24 01:59:14 in doing that, nokia somehow managed to construct something where one needed a custom flash which didn't play well with normal browsers Mar 24 01:59:22 sazpaimon: you do not have my sympathy Mar 24 01:59:29 /etc/apt/sources.list is empty Mar 24 01:59:31 what gives Mar 24 01:59:36 that's not how apt works Mar 24 01:59:42 go read man apt Mar 24 01:59:45 or something Mar 24 01:59:47 Sazpaimon_, see /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ Mar 24 01:59:49 maybe man sources.list.d Mar 24 02:00:11 ohh Mar 24 02:00:19 not all repos are listed there too Mar 24 02:00:30 I'm used to vanilla debian where I only use the former Mar 24 02:00:55 okay, well that's populated, but my catalog list is showing up empty, and nothing is showing in the application manager.. Mar 24 02:19:40 ~flashing Mar 24 02:19:41 i guess flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Mar 24 02:30:40 + Mar 24 02:33:22 timeless_w7ip similarly, i use a bunch of browsers on os x and w7 and i tend to fall back to the native browsers there too // ROFLMAO Mar 24 02:35:23 chem|st: (kwtm, meh): http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Subsystems#Keyboard - courtesy me Mar 24 02:36:40 I guess timeless loves IE Mar 24 02:38:49 and it is stupid to think sms relies on usr bin browser binary Mar 24 02:39:42 it relies on library that microb uses Mar 24 02:40:11 *also* uses Mar 24 02:41:24 microb doesnt support html5 Mar 24 02:42:08 and it is ugly as hell Mar 24 02:42:31 I am loving opera11 Mar 24 02:51:42 turbowei: ie9 is great Mar 24 02:51:53 and i'm loving that ms is trying to bury ie6 Mar 24 02:52:42 turbowei: it relies on /usr/sbin/browserd Mar 24 02:52:51 and 'html5' isn't one thing Mar 24 02:52:56 it's a set of evolving standards Mar 24 02:52:59 and you're an idiot. Mar 24 02:53:28 it's unfortunate that microb isn't being updated Mar 24 02:53:36 but that's not the fault of the engineers who made microb Mar 24 02:53:47 that's a management decision about which we have little control Mar 24 02:54:33 turbowei: note that microb=browserd Mar 24 02:54:42 usr-bin-browser is tablet-browser-ui Mar 24 02:57:18 you dont need to run IE at all on w7 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Mar 24 02:59:58 2011