**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Apr 08 02:59:58 2011 Apr 08 03:02:57 hi all Apr 08 03:05:06 any able to help me...Ever since I've installed audio boost, it takes about 4-5 rings to bring up the phone inteface-then the volume increase and I can answer the call if voice mails doesn't pick up or the part hangs up =/ Apr 08 03:09:49 I've never used audio boost Apr 08 03:09:53 did you try uninstalling it? Apr 08 03:11:45 nah i will likly end up do so though. Apr 08 03:12:29 ty for reply. Apr 08 03:13:27 I had a bad experience with an EQ app I tried Apr 08 03:13:58 a while back. made the audio pop and use a lot of CPU Apr 08 03:17:28 uggg, i would be upset =/....I work around loud machinery and chainsaws and I really enjoy the audio boost but seems buggy, so if i'm unable to answer my calls thats a bigger issue. Apr 08 03:18:42 yeah, disrupting phone functionality is no good Apr 08 03:19:16 maybe try some headphones/earbuds that block out noise better Apr 08 03:20:58 Proteous зштп Apr 08 03:21:06 ping Apr 08 03:23:56 sure Apr 08 03:24:04 зштп Apr 08 03:33:27 Proteous, i think i talked to you a lot of time ago Apr 08 03:33:37 could be Apr 08 03:33:52 you said you barely here, we talked about port of some java app Apr 08 03:33:56 could it be you? Apr 08 03:34:08 probably not me Apr 08 03:34:14 I hate java Apr 08 03:34:15 :P Apr 08 03:34:28 =) Apr 08 06:44:43 huh... Apr 08 06:45:48 Ok, one time I mis-typed a number with SMS: "07xyyyyyyy" in which x is incorrect and y correct. Apr 08 06:46:16 For some reason, my original conversation with the person opened, and I though the number was correct Apr 08 06:46:22 What the...? Apr 08 06:51:58 erm... Apr 08 06:52:08 maybe it mind read it? Apr 08 06:59:15 http://www.techamok.com/?pid=8898 US Circuit Court upholds warrantless siezure (theft) of laptops for travellers entering USA Apr 08 07:01:40 why is that even a surprise? Apr 08 07:02:05 generally you're not in any country while traveling across borders(i.e. a bit of no-mans land there)... Apr 08 07:02:37 It is a violation of the law Apr 08 07:02:55 what law exactly? there is no law where there is no country to impose it Apr 08 07:03:00 FIQ|n900, the reason is that Nokias and not only the N900, have been doing a suffix match for phonenumbers since the beginning of time => the reason is that a number xxxxxx can be signaled with different prefixes, e.g. 0, 0CC 00CC, +CC with CC being the country prefix. Apr 08 07:03:05 hint hint... no-mans land Apr 08 07:03:43 pupnik_, actually not really, while entering/exiting a country customs official have been having a free hand since ever, ... Apr 08 07:05:27 pupnik_, not that it does not suck, ... Apr 08 07:05:28 yacc: that is an illegal, unconstitutional act Apr 08 07:05:35 yes human rights should be respected... but generally you have no rights on borders Apr 08 07:07:50 pupnik_, it's just the logical conclusion what would happen if you tried to transport a closed safe without the possibility to open it => if the border guards would notice that, they'd keep it for secondary inspection too :( Apr 08 07:10:19 pupnik_, it's no wonder that it has been standard business procedure for a couple of years to give a cleanly imaged laptop to business travelers to the US, if travel to the US is unavoidable (nobody sane liked to travel to communistic police states, and nobody likes to travel to a "war on terrorism" police state like the US) Apr 08 07:10:43 ahh that's good policy Apr 08 07:10:56 pupnik_, warrentless searches, check (the FBI agent just needs to have imagined that it might be terrorism or national security related) Apr 08 07:11:41 pupnik_, warrentless unspecified jail terms being kept without communication, check (see above) Apr 08 07:11:41 yacc, or "think of the children" related Apr 08 07:13:13 pupnik_, warrentless data searches, check (see SWIFT, which is explicitly illegal by EU standards, but is tolerated by EU politician exactly because of that, the US is doing the dirty data searches that they couldn't get their hands on for them, ...) Apr 08 07:13:40 i didn't know that ty Apr 08 07:13:52 actually swift and passangare data sharing has been on the kicking front recently Apr 08 07:14:08 I recall some news about it Apr 08 07:14:29 it's absolutely ridiculous of some people to assert that data-privacy is not a goal of FOSS Apr 08 07:15:10 ruskie, yeah, if terrorism does not cut it, kiddie porn (hint: no really hard definition for that, you know, the exact definition varies from country to country, e.g. if you are unlucky, a photograph of your wife and your kids playing in the bath tub can get you that sexual predator stamp) is always a good explanation why a common human has no rights ;) Apr 08 07:15:13 personal decision of what happens with your data and code is at the core of open source philosophy Apr 08 07:16:03 yacc: i just use truecrypt when crossing borders Apr 08 07:16:06 ruskie, yeah, since the last round of EU treaties, the EU parliament has to much to say => and these are 732 or so potential trouble makers ;) Apr 08 07:16:12 Elop needs to be physically banned from finland. Apr 08 07:16:31 yacc: it takes only 3h to encrypt/decrypt whole disk Apr 08 07:16:41 jacekowski, than hope that you don't cross into the UK. They'll ask you nice for your encryption key, and if you say no (whatever) lookup you up for 5 years ;) Apr 08 07:17:27 yacc: as far as i know they can only send you do prison for not giving up encryption keys if you are convicted of another crime at the same time ( related to reason why you were asked to give up your keys ) Apr 08 07:17:56 jacekowski, I do not use any hdd without LUKS on it, only exception being vfat formated (usually flash) mass storage device that is used to exchange data. Apr 08 07:18:40 yacc, actually the parliament so far has done more proper things Apr 08 07:19:02 jacekowski, not really, they just need to claim that they saw suspicious images on the device before you shutdown, and if you do not hand over the keys you will be getting sentenced for that, because they cannot sentence you for kiddie porn, or even check if you are guilty. Apr 08 07:19:33 if I ever had a need to travel anywhere I'd bring a clean slate system with me and simply grab any data I need over an encrytped channel over the network later Apr 08 07:19:46 ruskie, only because the lobbying influences have not yet recalibrated for the fact the the parliament does have teeth now, ... Apr 08 07:20:04 ruskie, congrats, you just figured it out ;) Apr 08 07:20:11 yacc, well lobbying so far failed for patent reform... Apr 08 07:20:21 yacc, ??? Apr 08 07:20:32 that has always been my plan... clean slate system and grab any data later Apr 08 07:20:53 even when it was a bit safer Apr 08 07:21:06 ruskie, as I said, the EU parliament had for decades only very limited rights. The perfect place to park idealistic politicians that are incapable of being day-to-day pragmatic, ... Apr 08 07:21:21 and the EU commision is??? Apr 08 07:22:06 Full of pragmatic day-to-day politicians that do not give any thought to human rights, what is right or wrong, they only represent the pragmatic concerns of their governments, ... Apr 08 07:22:22 actually they don't Apr 08 07:22:29 they represent the pragmatic concerns of their parties Apr 08 07:22:51 if they actually represented the pragmatic concerns of their governments I'd be more worried Apr 08 07:23:28 not to mention the system would be stagnating to infinity... Apr 08 07:23:41 The EU parliament => not really, not yet, because of it's decade long impotence, it was a parking place for inconvinient politicians for a long time, nice benefits, no relevance (as in minimal national exposure to press), perfect, ... Apr 08 07:24:01 because various governments at the best of times have problems cooperating on the most mundane levels Apr 08 07:24:14 ruskie, welcome to EU politics, ... Apr 08 07:24:27 I guess it depends on the gov Apr 08 07:24:48 but around here we generally voted for who goes there and rarely were these people inconvienences on tho national level Apr 08 07:24:57 ruskie, well yes and no, the EU has been a consensual "government elite" project for decades, ... Apr 08 07:25:11 ruskie, here is where? Apr 08 07:25:15 slovenia Apr 08 07:25:21 <-- is on EU sceptic Apr 08 07:25:24 erm an Apr 08 07:26:22 Well, inconviences is the wrong word perhaps, but the fact is that any politician that moves to some EU position becomes near irrelevant nationally, ... Apr 08 07:26:49 considering how relevant the national ones are... Apr 08 07:26:58 it doesn't really change much around here Apr 08 07:27:15 we have a total crop gov currently...(and didn't do much better before)... Apr 08 07:27:23 ruskie, no idea if I'm a fan or a sceptic => I'm much like this brit PM during WWII, the EU is a bad thing, but name me a better plan, ... Apr 08 07:27:31 transitioning from communism to capitalism... free-for-alls etc... Apr 08 07:28:02 yacc: there are competing visions for the EU. One is a freemarket zone, the other is a central planned economy. Both can be called 'European Union' Apr 08 07:28:04 Fact is that the EU national states are way to tiny on a global scale to be bothered with, ... Apr 08 07:28:37 currently we have a capitalists wet dream... no oversight, no sanctions, useless judical system, and bansk willing to give out lots of money for "privatization" Apr 08 07:29:35 yacc, I would call you a sceptic... it's a bad thing but there is nothing better(yet)... Apr 08 07:29:40 Well, actually what you mean is probably more like a fully integrated economy, and that's the one that makes sense, but then I've been by design anti-nationalistic for my whole life, I do not tend to cheer for my national sport teams and having worked and traveled in a couple of places, I tend to see both sides of the coin in many cases. Apr 08 07:30:06 I don't much care for national intresets myself Apr 08 07:30:10 E.g. going to school in France was fascinating, they have quite a different view of history than say Austrians/Germans ;) Apr 08 07:30:35 everybody and their dog has a different view on history Apr 08 07:30:57 ruskie, naturally, but most people do not realize that ;) Apr 08 07:31:06 I can ask 5 people around me what they thought about Josip Broz Tito and each will give me a completly different answer... Apr 08 07:32:08 ruskie, well, in your case it's a special case, because it's to personal to many people, and most of these people have lived with Tito to with direct consequences of Tito, ... Apr 08 07:32:09 I prefer to just consider everything false until I can review it myself and even then will doubt it as an actual truth Apr 08 07:32:47 or the german/italian occupation of slovenia during wwII etc... Apr 08 07:32:53 Well, I tend to have a non-monotone view of the world, ... Apr 08 07:33:49 same here Apr 08 07:34:34 ruskie, well, without being a revisionist, you have to realize that the good guys in the WWII e.g. the US, have been nearly as rassistic as the Nazis (e.g. I wouldn't want to be a Nigger in the 30s or 40s in the US, where a white murding a Nigger got a slap on the hand at best, ...) Apr 08 07:34:46 agreed Apr 08 07:37:12 And one big concept that I live with is look at what they do and not what they talk => it's very hard to identify the good guys nowadays is you hide their names. E.g. the US (but also other western governments) are very hard to identify as the good guys if you try to analyze them by what they do, and declare Axioms like "they are good because they are the US/UK/France/Germany/EU/Nato" invalid, ... Apr 08 07:37:49 to true... Apr 08 07:38:27 Anyway, I'll try to get myself identified as the clean guy, so bbl, the shower is calling me ;) Apr 08 07:38:45 cheers Apr 08 07:39:00 the: One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter always comes to mind Apr 08 07:39:40 help! I accidentally pressed lock phone instead of the keyboard and screen lock. And I don't remember the password. I have root ssh access. How do I fix this? Apr 08 07:39:58 you don't remember it? and it isn't toe default? Apr 08 07:40:01 erm the Apr 08 07:40:04 perhaps there is a default password? Apr 08 07:40:08 12345 Apr 08 07:40:14 should be the default if you never set it Apr 08 07:40:18 else see talk.maemo.org Apr 08 07:40:25 there's a thread on how to reset it Apr 08 07:40:44 iirc lock code reset or something like that should find the thread Apr 08 07:40:46 ah I remembered it once I knew it was five numbers long. Thanks :) Apr 08 07:40:51 yw Apr 08 07:41:17 cause it can't be longer or shorter than that? Apr 08 07:41:25 not sure Apr 08 07:41:34 I would assume it could be shorter Apr 08 07:41:40 or longer... but not sure Apr 08 08:04:33 ICD2 sends a "scan_sig" message when network scan data is available. What are all the possible values of NETWORK_TYPE parameter. I know that it can take the values WLAN_INFRA, WLAN_ADHOC and GPRS. Are there any others? Apr 08 08:15:42 Reading the lock code reset thread one gets the impression that quite a bit of N900 buyers are not exactly old linux hackers, ... Apr 08 08:16:11 why? Apr 08 08:16:45 And that these duffus would greatly benefit from somebody setting a simple CGI script somewhere that runs jack the ripper for the lock code, ... Apr 08 08:19:18 importing files in QML is meh Apr 08 08:25:32 alterego, do extra components have to be in a folder? Apr 08 08:25:49 using import "Slider.qml" throws an error, but Slider.qml exists Apr 08 08:36:45 you have to love the display of self destruct that Nokia has been demonstrating Apr 08 08:37:49 you mean it wasn't doing so since a long time ago? Apr 08 08:43:29 MohammadAG: you don't have to import. Just use Slider {} and it loads the .qml file automagically. Apr 08 08:43:35 importing is for .js files and modules. Apr 08 08:51:15 alterego, oh, thanks Apr 08 08:54:06 crashanddie: I don't love it at all. It's like a train wreck. You can't look away, but if you consider all the passengers and their lives, it's really quite sad. Apr 08 08:54:31 I think it's endlessly entertaining Apr 08 08:55:59 and that's what we call schadenfreude. Apr 08 08:56:25 indeed Apr 08 08:59:08 < yacc> Reading the lock code reset thread one gets the impression that quite a <<< this is a sign of success of N900 / maemo5 Apr 08 09:00:07 it's precisely the success of the talented folks at nokia to make a 'phone based on linux' that appeals to people who don't primarily buy it as a linux device Apr 08 09:16:06 alterego, shouldn't an anchor lock an item in place? Apr 08 09:17:16 MohammadAG: depends if the item it's anchored to is locked. Apr 08 09:17:48 alterego, http://i55.tinypic.com/jts8jm.jpg Apr 08 09:18:23 duration text should be anchored to the end of the slider, but it seems to be way off Apr 08 09:19:48 Can I see the Qml for that. Apr 08 09:19:53 Oh wait, you're using the editor. Apr 08 09:20:02 Interesting Apr 08 09:21:24 actually using the raw editor for the most part, just checking anchors with the GUI one Apr 08 09:21:37 Well, let me see the qml then :) Apr 08 09:22:18 http://pastebin.com/gYmxkx9W Apr 08 09:22:56 Slider.qml would be http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-mobility-snapshot/declarative-location-flickr-flickrcommon-slider-qml.html :P Apr 08 09:27:06 Well, that's easy Apr 08 09:27:17 You need to change the anchors in songPositionText Apr 08 09:27:22 anchors.right: slider.right Apr 08 09:27:30 and remove anchors.rightMargin Apr 08 09:32:35 heh, the designer's crap Apr 08 09:32:53 ~moo Apr 08 09:32:54 * infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass Apr 08 09:33:36 MohammadAG: I never use it, but it does have indicators for the anchor points which maybe you should pay better attention too :P Apr 08 09:33:55 alterego, actually, I did, those are what set it to left :P Apr 08 09:34:29 (close your ears DocScrutinizer) Apr 08 09:34:35 MohammadAG: submit a bug report? :D Apr 08 09:37:40 LOL Apr 08 09:37:56 alterego, can't, I'm using some ancient old version Apr 08 09:38:13 so it might've been fixed, but since packaging is back in Qt Creator, I stopped updating :P Apr 08 09:38:14 It's okay, I wasn't serious :P Apr 08 09:38:58 alterego, there's no way to use QSlider in QML right? Apr 08 09:39:12 Well, there is Apr 08 09:39:14 But it's not great. Apr 08 09:39:25 Binding QWidgets into Qml is fiddly :P Apr 08 09:39:33 neither is the slider I'm currently using Apr 08 09:39:37 I need to change the range a lot Apr 08 09:39:45 Make it better? Apr 08 09:41:07 is there a way to see what's currently building in the fremantle build queue ? Apr 08 10:43:09 "In Germany, under the law, everything is prohibited,e xcept that which is permitted." -- Newton Minow Apr 08 10:43:15 pup`ping Apr 08 10:43:28 pupnik, ping* Apr 08 10:43:49 pupnik, http://www.8bitpeoples.com/discography/ Apr 08 10:44:04 i remember you loved pornophonique Apr 08 10:44:49 pupnik, I thought that was more or less all european juristdictions... with the exception of the UK(where it is the reverse) Apr 08 10:45:47 pretty crazy Apr 08 10:45:51 is there a way to see what's currently building in the fremantle build queue ? Apr 08 10:46:01 pupnik, the EU law also works the same Apr 08 10:46:40 all laws work the same Apr 08 10:46:52 even in soviet russia Apr 08 10:47:47 as we say "the unknowing of law doesn't release guilty from punishment" Apr 08 10:48:00 ZogG, wrong Apr 08 10:48:34 otherwise i can kill and than prove i did know i can't Apr 08 10:48:39 alterego, is it possible to emit a signal from QML with a parameter? Apr 08 10:48:42 ruskie say who? Apr 08 10:49:08 basically, I want to emit valueChanged(int)'s equivalent Apr 08 10:49:22 so I could tie it to C++ code Apr 08 10:49:41 there are 2 general approaches to lawmaking... one is everything is permited EXCEPT the stuff that is forbidden(UK and USA have this approach) and the other is everything is forbidden EXCEPT stuff that is permited(most of the EU has this)... Apr 08 10:50:00 the end result is the same generally Apr 08 10:50:04 :) Apr 08 10:50:24 don't piss off pppl with power Apr 08 10:50:33 also how the law is interpreted in court also plays a role Apr 08 10:51:26 you have common law jurisdictions(UK, USA) and Civil law(most of the world) Apr 08 10:51:58 Civil law - a court will reinterpret the law each time for each case with minimal reliance on previous cases and interpretations Apr 08 10:52:10 so two people accused of the same thing can get widely different results Apr 08 10:52:12 do you have some hint about an N810 that's decided to reboot-loop forever? its internal disk was quite possibly full, and also, a few non-standard things were installed. is reflashing my only option? Apr 08 10:52:52 Common law - a court will take into account previous rullings and only rarely reinterpret(the specifics of the case should be different to do so generally) Apr 08 10:53:38 no I'm not a lawyer/paralegal or anything like that... but I did research this stuff a lot a while ago as I find it interesting... Apr 08 10:54:57 of course those are just the top most overlays... it gets subdivided with common influences... Apr 08 10:55:37 anyway OT... so enough on this topic Apr 08 10:56:04 MohammadAG: yes, :) Apr 08 10:57:21 alterego, any pointers? :) Apr 08 10:57:47 all I could find is connecting a signal with no parameters to Qt/C++ Apr 08 10:58:56 ruskie, the origin is actually "не знание закона, не освобождает ответствености" Apr 08 10:59:47 ZogG, refering to that quote you mean? Apr 08 10:59:54 I'm not arguing that really Apr 08 11:00:27 i mean original quote and not my translation Apr 08 11:00:34 ruskie =* Apr 08 11:00:34 MohammadAG: have you got: signal mySignal(int) in your qml? Apr 08 11:00:51 alterego, oh, so it can hold ints? Apr 08 11:01:02 MohammadAG: then when you emit the signal do: comp.mySignal(10) Apr 08 11:01:05 or whatever Apr 08 11:01:57 file:///home/mohammad/mediaplayer/entertainmentview.qml:12:34: Expected token `identifier' Apr 08 11:01:57 signal sliderValueChanged(int); Apr 08 11:05:01 MohammadAG: sorry: signal mySignal(int paramName) Apr 08 11:09:35 alterego, cool, thanks :D Apr 08 11:10:27 MohammadAG: you have to specify a name so you can do: onMySignal: something.text = value Apr 08 11:10:35 where value is the named param Apr 08 11:10:45 Saves you using function binding. Apr 08 11:11:18 alterego, already got it, I'll have to check if the slider's down and not emit the signal then though Apr 08 11:11:47 I'm assuming MouseArea can handle that... Apr 08 11:11:50 Anyhow, I'll bbl Apr 08 11:11:57 Yeah should do Apr 08 11:11:59 bbl Apr 08 11:37:41 Anyone spotted that the French operation in Libya is called Harmattan? Apr 08 11:38:27 Heh Apr 08 11:38:42 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12831743 Apr 08 11:40:05 lardman, that's not a coincidence Apr 08 11:40:07 :P Apr 08 11:40:16 well no, it's fitting Apr 08 11:41:50 Does that mean they're all using N950s? Apr 08 11:42:02 :) Apr 08 11:42:46 Yay, bus is here Apr 08 11:43:07 oh dear: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-13012108 Apr 08 11:43:14 attack by loofah, escape! Apr 08 12:09:15 alterego, if I have a MouseArea over the slider then all input to it is blocked Apr 08 12:14:02 wheee my inventory looks decent now Apr 08 12:24:53 wow! Now that is a nice rendering: http://raph.com/3dartists/artgallery/6764.jpg :D Apr 08 12:26:53 hmm that magazine is of slovenian origins Apr 08 12:27:00 :) Apr 08 12:27:19 cannonfodder was great, but incredibly frustrating at times. Apr 08 12:28:55 MohammadAG: yeah, probably :) Apr 08 12:38:32 MohammadAG: those concepts always work on same principle. The first/most-upper object gets the event, looks at it and processes/ignores it, then exits by passing back either the 'cooked' even or a flag if the event got 'swallowed'. If this flag is not set, the outer control structure shall pass on event to next layer in handler stack Apr 08 13:00:42 timeless_w7ip, could you please gimme the bug to that bugreport that you've shown us yesterday? about the example that deletes an object before using it. Apr 08 13:02:19 timeless_w7ip, sorry. I meant, could you pleas gimme the link* Apr 08 13:08:29 https://bugs.meego.com/attachment.cgi?id=5243 Apr 08 13:10:06 you'd also find that in http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-04-07.log.html Apr 08 13:13:21 "I know today is a deadline, but I wont be receiving any calls or texts. I should probably tell you, but I wouldn't want to be a bother." -My N900 Apr 08 13:15:45 GAN900, :( Apr 08 13:15:49 DocScrutinizer, thx Apr 08 13:16:13 DocScrutinizer, what's the bugzilla excercise to get into the bug itself? Apr 08 13:16:52 DocScrutinizer, nevermind, I check the logs Apr 08 13:17:59 hi, using N900 with Maemo 5, v 20.2010.36-2. Just wondering if anyone know is there is a way to reconfigure email client to use smaller fonts by default when composing Apr 08 13:18:37 seems that once you config email client on 1st time u use it, can't reconfig the default. Or is it me? Apr 08 13:18:45 Venemo: append &action=edit Apr 08 13:18:55 Venemo: to url Apr 08 13:19:20 DocScrutinizer, found it! but thanks :) Apr 08 13:19:26 yw Apr 08 13:19:35 Also, it insists on downloading all attachments regardless of whether one selects the email, etc. Is that configurable as well? Apr 08 13:21:12 stef_204: modest (the mail client) is rather useless. So if in doubt about a feature, the answer usually is "not supported" Apr 08 13:21:54 DocScrutinizer: I agree. I can't find another good email client to install that will really work Apr 08 13:22:43 I tried Claws but can't really see the entire interface, and one o 2 others but same: they are from the dev mirror (if I recall) and do not seem to be ready for "mainstream" use Apr 08 13:22:52 nobody bothered to create a finger friendly MUA that has all the functions you'd like to see Apr 08 13:23:03 any suggestions for a good alternative email client (IMAO)? Apr 08 13:23:11 *(IMAP) Apr 08 13:23:53 sorry, no idea. I never felt like doing real email shoveling on N900 Apr 08 13:24:09 I use it when I am on marketing or business trips Apr 08 13:24:13 really important to me Apr 08 13:24:20 possibly a web client is the best option Apr 08 13:24:24 I'll continue trial and error I guess Apr 08 13:24:48 DocScrutinizer: Webmail is a PITA on the n900, if u ask me... :) Apr 08 13:24:57 never tried it Apr 08 13:25:16 DocScrutinizer, thanks for finding this for me. It gave the Fedora QA folks a nice laugh :D Apr 08 13:25:52 I just know I go "MEH" and close modest when I see 27 unread spam mails in the list and don't see any option "mark all as read" Apr 08 13:28:25 DocScrutinizer, "mark all as read" is something I've been missing too Apr 08 13:29:29 that and other bandwidth hogs like huge PDF attachments, etc., that get downloaded automatically using up my bandwidth allocation on my cell plan Apr 08 13:30:02 Modest is a good start; it works but just missing features IMHO Apr 08 13:32:45 yep, a lot of missing features Apr 08 13:32:57 plus a few bugs Apr 08 13:34:49 e.g the missing option to NOT display the HTML part of multipart/mixed msgs is clearly a bug Apr 08 13:36:25 dunno if the bug of embedded attachements in multipart/mixed not showing is already fixed. Guess not Apr 08 13:37:14 I'd need to ask my friend to send me a test msgs from his iPhone to check. YUCK Apr 08 13:41:43 * DocScrutinizer takes the opportunity to rant about apple: some time ago I've seen "XML" there, like key1value1key2value2 - what a fsckdup idea of XML is *that*?! Apr 08 13:45:12 yes, crapple property list in xml format.. abomination Apr 08 13:46:45 Doc, that looks almost like some things from thedailywtf, although they've had much worse snippets too Apr 08 13:49:19 damn, how hard is it to get the idea of a strucured dataset? Apr 08 13:50:34 key1value1key2value2 Apr 08 13:53:09 DocScrutinizer, that's ridiculous xml... the second version is quite sane though. Apr 08 13:53:33 and oh DocScrutinizer, did you know that Gnome has listened to your opinion and dumped GConf? Apr 08 13:53:59 the second version is a 5sec take I made up in a try to fix the first crappy version invented by apple Apr 08 13:54:35 yep, I know. They got something even worse now I gathered Apr 08 13:54:39 nope Apr 08 13:54:49 they got something that actually performs well, called DConf Apr 08 13:55:08 D like Distributed? that sounds nice Apr 08 13:56:03 dunno what it stands for Apr 08 13:56:05 each app responsible for their own config, and offering dbus interface so other apps can get to know about changes or change settings. Sounds semi-sane Apr 08 13:56:16 if that's the concept Apr 08 13:56:26 that's how I'd design such a thing Apr 08 13:56:46 however, they haven't managed to port all their stuff away from GConf, so I now end up having both... Apr 08 13:57:03 LOL Apr 08 13:59:43 at least my concept would allow to actually backup/move/copy an app *with complete settings* which could live in a config file in the app's working directory, as usual Apr 08 14:00:18 DocScrutinizer, so there's a new g spell, called 'gsettings' now :P Apr 08 14:00:43 an app could work even if there's no dbus at all on system, compare that to a system missing gconfd Apr 08 14:00:51 spell.. that remember my days of sourcemage ( linux distro ) Apr 08 14:01:23 yea Apr 08 14:01:51 :X i've got a very stupid question Apr 08 14:01:58 anyone can get me a bin of tar? Apr 08 14:01:59 shoot Apr 08 14:02:11 err Apr 08 14:02:21 it seems i accidentially removed busybox Apr 08 14:02:26 ouch Apr 08 14:02:39 and dpkg relys on tar Apr 08 14:02:48 umm Apr 08 14:03:30 BigWookie, apt-get install --reinstall busybox? Apr 08 14:03:35 how would you install that binary on N900? Apr 08 14:04:31 wget -O /bin Apr 08 14:04:53 BigWookie: without messybox you can't boot, can't mv or cp or chmod or any other cmd Apr 08 14:05:02 and apt-get won't work anymore Apr 08 14:05:08 DocScrutinizer: it is running right now Apr 08 14:05:21 yay Apr 08 14:05:26 best would be the whole /bin dir Apr 08 14:06:24 unerase busybox? Apr 08 14:06:33 not possible Apr 08 14:06:38 as I said dpkg won't work Apr 08 14:06:45 mc Apr 08 14:07:02 afaik it has a rudimentary unerase function Apr 08 14:07:09 mc is not installed Apr 08 14:07:15 :-S Apr 08 14:07:41 if sbd could upload me his /bin dir i could unpack it on my desktop and scp it to /bin Apr 08 14:07:48 well, you shall get a tar binary Apr 08 14:07:51 http://asui.garage.maemo.org/_screenshots/keypad_2-landscape.png <-- advanced-systemui change the lock screen ? Apr 08 14:08:38 X-Fade: ping Apr 08 14:14:25 BigWookie: you got a /query ! Apr 08 14:15:06 meh Apr 08 14:20:45 do you have some hint about an N810 that's decided to reboot-loop forever? its internal disk was quite possibly full, and also, a few non-standard things were installed. is reflashing my only option? Apr 08 14:22:21 I can't see a better option Apr 08 14:23:17 you *could* try to get a shell in initrd, and then clean the / on NAND Apr 08 14:23:41 dunno how to accomplish that though Apr 08 14:24:08 o/ bbl Apr 08 14:24:28 perhaps there is a way to go into R&D mode without flashing? i have a feeling it's the watchdog that's killing the system, and i've read R&D disables that Apr 08 14:26:01 you can set R6D without actually flashing. flasher has an option for that Apr 08 14:34:31 ./flasher-3.5 --set-rd no-omap-wd no-ext-wd no-lifeguard-reset --enable-rd-mode Apr 08 14:36:29 the no-lifeguard-reset probably the most promising, aiui it will keep dsme from rebooting device on any of the monitored processes quitting ungracefully Apr 08 14:37:07 /wc/wc Apr 08 14:37:15 sry, and by xD Apr 08 14:38:07 * DocScrutinizer recalls "houston, we got a problem" after 50 reboots :-P Apr 08 14:57:03 while i like that there is someone out there working on espeak, having new versions put out every few days is getting a bit rediculous Apr 08 14:57:21 Just implemented waypoint projection Apr 08 14:57:25 Fast and nasty method (tm) Apr 08 15:57:33 Psi: gotta love fast development! learn to enjoy getting features/bugfixes every couple of days :P Apr 08 15:57:54 when I was working actively on ABL, I was pushing a new version every day or two as well Apr 08 15:57:59 ah, those were the days... Apr 08 16:20:21 This is a bit of a premature question, as being as my phone is still broken, but anyone know of a way I can make it so that when I am sent a message from one number, pressing reply fills in another? Apr 08 16:21:18 bah, my mind isn't picturing things properly (this happens when your N900 is broken for weeks) Apr 08 16:21:39 basically, I don't want to have to switch conversations to reply to a different number Apr 08 16:22:45 that doesn't make sense Apr 08 16:22:46 you reply to sender Apr 08 16:23:44 slonopotamus: my friend has two numbers. She texts me from her German number, because it is cheaper, and I reply to her UK number, because it is cheaper Apr 08 16:24:03 but I often forget to switch conversations, and end up paying a stupid amount of money for an sms Apr 08 16:26:01 crazy world Apr 08 16:26:26 slonopotamus how is gentoo on n800? Apr 08 16:26:49 * slonopotamus uses unlimited 3g for both him and his wife and texts via jabber with fixed monthly payment :P Apr 08 16:26:51 * DocScrutinizer wonders if two numbers under one contact result in one conversation thread or two Apr 08 16:27:07 DocScrutinizer: two Apr 08 16:27:08 dashavoo: i doubt you can do that, kinda exotic usecase Apr 08 16:27:13 :-S Apr 08 16:27:42 slonopotamus: thought so... I might write a script to intercept the message and change the number or something... when my phone comes back Apr 08 16:28:33 nah, that's definitely a long blamed flaw in maemo contacts management that you don't know about which number it's been of those 3 that are stored to that particular contact Apr 08 16:29:23 actually the usecase you get called from mobile number of your friend but you want to call back on his homezone number isn't that unusual at all Apr 08 16:30:15 as it is now, you have to call back to see which number it's actually been that he used to call you Apr 08 16:30:27 ZogG: works for my needs, though with kinda slow graphics rendering. planning to try modern kernel this weekend. also, kde-4.6 should go stable soon, it has some new shiny tablet ui Apr 08 16:30:39 DocScrutinizer: it is pretty silly Apr 08 16:30:47 and frustrating :P Apr 08 16:30:52 anyway, home time :) Apr 08 16:31:00 BBQ this evening. Such lovely weather :) Apr 08 16:31:05 have a good weekend everyone Apr 08 16:31:36 slonopotamus kde? srsly? maybe you should try unity or something? Apr 08 16:32:04 there's been a ticket for that and everybody hoped thy'd fix it in PR1.2 Apr 08 16:32:31 now we got PR1.3 and it's still broken Apr 08 16:32:43 ZogG: gtk apps have big troubles fitting into 480px-high screen Apr 08 16:33:00 slonopotamus and kde? Apr 08 16:33:41 i only found a couple of systemsettings tabs that didn't fit. Apr 08 16:33:44 slonopotamus and if you just use hildon ? and go with maemo original src of packages for ebuilds? Apr 08 16:34:16 ZogG: hildon learned to work with unpatched gtk? Apr 08 16:34:40 ZogG: haven't looked that way, actually Apr 08 16:34:52 you can use same paatches, why not? Apr 08 16:34:57 though i heard someone was writing ebuilds for hildon gui Apr 08 16:35:11 or you can use qildon or any hildon forks you can find Apr 08 16:35:11 though qildon is not finished as i know Apr 08 16:35:43 nice Apr 08 16:36:48 * slonopotamus wonders why ubuntu samba segfaults here and there (running visual studio on samba share) but gentoo doesn't. Apr 08 16:38:49 ZogG: wrt unity: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/UnityHardwareRequirements Apr 08 16:39:02 1gb ram? are they kidding? Apr 08 16:39:54 http://gitorious.org/qildon Apr 08 16:39:55 also, according to that page, it has a strong dependency on opengl Apr 08 16:41:30 also, according to that page, arm is not supported Apr 08 16:44:53 slonopotamus qildon? it was written for n900 i assume Apr 08 16:45:03 slonopotamus can you give me some screenies for gentoo-ru chan please =) Apr 08 16:46:03 ZogG: later, no wifi here so can't upload from n800 Apr 08 16:46:53 ZogG: they'll just show kde running at 800x480 :) Apr 08 16:48:21 slonopotamus any drivers that don't work properly? Apr 08 16:48:35 as i saw sound problem is solved Apr 08 16:49:06 ZogG: i haven't tried camera. wifi, bluetooth, sound - everything works Apr 08 16:49:43 slonopotamus camera you can try with player just check if you have video0 device or something Apr 08 16:54:44 funnily, qt raster is faster than xrender on n800 Apr 08 16:57:12 ZogG: yes, i have /dev/video0 Apr 08 16:57:47 slonopotamus than mplayer /dev/video0 Apr 08 16:58:08 mplayer -fps 15 tv:// -tv driver=v4l2:device=/dev/video0 Apr 08 16:58:26 though i don't know if you have v4l2 in kernel Apr 08 16:59:35 ZogG: meh, no mplayer :) later. but i see no reasons why it shouldn't work Apr 08 16:59:58 scud batteries appear to be exactly that good. Apr 08 17:00:12 slonopotamus btw how is compiling thing? does it takes hours and is it slow? Apr 08 17:00:56 ZogG: i compile in qemu-user chroot on shiny new phenom x6 :) Apr 08 17:01:34 ZogG: on device itself - somewhat slow, yes. gcc builds in 12h Apr 08 17:02:05 дщд Apr 08 17:02:07 lol Apr 08 17:02:37 so you build into packages? Apr 08 17:03:11 yep, build binpkgs in chroot and then install them on device Apr 08 17:15:49 hi folks, is something bad going to happen if I change the partition label of eMMC from Nokia N900 to n900? Apr 08 17:17:01 no Apr 08 17:22:56 mookie eveyone goona di Apr 08 17:23:14 die* Apr 08 17:23:46 ZogG: i thought so Apr 08 17:26:02 ZogG: дщд تربية الإبل Apr 08 17:26:14 DocScrutinizer what? Apr 08 17:26:27 дщд = lol Apr 08 17:26:30 other i don't get Apr 08 17:27:02 you don't want to know ;-P Apr 08 17:40:59 ZogG: you're sick? no fighting, no "Doc, the evil German, wants to kill me"... Apr 08 17:41:32 ZogG: I'm worried Apr 08 17:44:28 ~attack ZogG Apr 08 17:44:28 * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing ZogG Apr 08 17:45:25 :D Apr 08 18:10:12 new client pulls 470 mA when running without sdl_delay() :D Apr 08 18:10:41 will, (parted) name 1 "n900" change partition label, or i should use mklabel msdos and if yes is data going to be usable? becouse of this http://www.gnu.org/software/parted/manual/html_chapter/parted_toc.html#TOC16 Apr 08 18:47:05 moin Apr 08 19:11:16 I've been doing "ssh -X" on my n900; then I've launched mplayer from command line (on the distant pc); works fine but for one thing: I have no sound (just like http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=19063) Apr 08 19:12:37 from http://wiki.maemo.org/Remote_desktop, evrything should work seamlessly. So I don't see what i'm doing wrong Apr 08 19:19:50 you don't get sound piped to n900 with just -X Apr 08 19:21:28 hee Apr 08 19:21:39 how much cpu does screen recorder use? Apr 08 19:21:50 Quite a lot, if I recall right. Apr 08 19:23:30 ShadowJK: really, what should I do to get sound? Apr 08 19:25:18 ShadowJK: I'm reading about it, I was sure it should have worked :-) Apr 08 19:26:01 I don't get a keyboard on graphical stuff when I do "ssh -X" from my N900. Apr 08 19:26:07 I seem to have problems with locales Apr 08 19:26:20 Does anyone have something to read about that? Apr 08 19:35:17 ShadowJK: thanks for your help, I'll try and see later how i can have sound too Apr 08 19:35:44 in fact I get a keyboard in gedit for example because it falls back to a default locale. Apr 08 19:36:30 But when I start nx-client from nomachine on the remote machine, I get: "Qt: Locales not supported on X server" Apr 08 19:40:29 anybody doing oprofile stuff on n900 Apr 08 19:56:22 I added debug traces to every function call in Columbus today. Apr 08 19:56:32 And it's actually really good I did :D Apr 08 19:58:25 Hi everybody. I own a n900. One I changed a timer to avoid HAM to check for updates, however, I can not find that tutorial. Apr 08 19:58:29 bier her! bier her! oder ich fall um jocheh! Apr 08 19:59:11 When I'm in 2.5G, it gets too slow, because HAM is looking for updates. Apr 08 20:24:43 a good laugh -> http://blog.jitbit.com/2011/04/chinese-magic-drive.html Apr 08 20:24:58 a 500GB external usb drive that is really a usb stick Apr 08 20:27:57 helooo Apr 08 20:28:37 hi Apr 08 20:31:04 anyone want to tell me some good news? Apr 08 20:34:16 phap: you're alive Apr 08 20:34:19 probably Apr 08 20:36:01 :-) thx Apr 08 20:36:41 I'm just reading the news... Apr 08 20:48:03 :sp Apr 08 21:19:00 Hi. I am about to reflash my N900's flash memory; then I want to install the gainroot package so I can activate USB networking and quickly re-transfer my backup back into flash memory (instead of having to do it wifi'ly). Where are the .deb packages stored, so I can copy the gainroot package (and others) to the uSD card and then copy it back after the flash? Apr 08 21:20:13 The ones on N900 get deleted after install, I think Apr 08 21:20:54 DocScrutinizer51: Hmm... are you there? If I want to reflash my 32GB flash mem so that only 4GB (or maybe even just 2GB) is the vfat ~/MyDocs , do I need to flash the ... what is it called, eeprom? The part with the actual Maemo OS? Apr 08 21:21:08 ShadowJK: Ok, so I'd have to reinstall anyway. Okay. Apr 08 21:21:54 The backup utility can save a list of installed apps, and reinstall them when you restore Apr 08 21:22:07 yes Apr 08 21:22:38 ShadowJK: I already have that with "dpkg --get-selections >FileList ; # reflash ; dpkg --set-selections DocScrutinizer51: Darn, I was hoping to avoid having to flash everything. Oh, well. Apr 08 21:23:34 fyi, maemo-list-user-packages | awk '{print $1}' | xargs Apr 08 21:27:00 Uh-oh. I already have the PR 1.2 flash images on my laptop, but I can't remember if they are the latest PR 1.2. When did the latest come out, please? I am afraid that if I just say as root "apt-get upgrade" (or apt-get dist-upgrade or whatever), it will upgrade to PR 1.3 which I want to avoid for now. If I got my around early July 2010, are those the latest? Apr 08 21:28:22 why avoid 1.3? Apr 08 21:29:18 July 2010 is before 1.3 Apr 08 21:29:21 probably 1.2 Apr 08 21:30:46 MohammadAG: I have been using 1.2 up till now, and it works. So till now there was no reason to upgrade. Now I should avoid so that if I get any errors, I know it's not related to PR 1.3. (Especially since I've been told that using shell scripting is "unsupported" and I'm responsible for anything weird that happens.) Apr 08 21:31:20 ShadowJK: Oh, I know it's 1.2, but do you recall if it was the newest 1.2? Or should I go look for the latest 1.2 firmware image? I can't remember the nokia website for that.... Apr 08 21:31:35 tablets-dev.nokia.com probably Apr 08 21:31:57 there's only one 1.2 Apr 08 21:32:47 and you won't be able to install a lot of testing and devel repo based apps on a fresh 1.2 flash Apr 08 21:33:06 restore = install Apr 08 21:33:16 hail Qt ABI break Apr 08 21:35:01 DocScrutinizer51: When you say "you won't be able to install a lot of testing and devel repo based apps on a fresh 1.2 flash" does that also apply to an old 1.2 flash, too? Ie. if I have it currently running on my 1.2 N900, does it mean it will install ok? Or for some reason it won't work even though it works ok now (say, because the PR1.2 version is no longer available in the repos and I must install the PR 1.3 packages)? Apr 08 21:36:00 yes exactly that Apr 08 21:36:29 a lot of packages in devel got updated to a version incompatible with 1.2 Apr 08 21:36:48 mostly Qt apps Apr 08 21:36:57 Oh dear. Ok, I guess I'm being forced into PR 1.3. Better to download a PR 1.3 firmware, or just reflash my old image and then do the OTA update? Apr 08 21:37:22 flash, much faster Apr 08 21:37:32 DocScrutinizer51: Oh, the devel packages? Oh, well, that's fine. I've hardly installed any devel packages, and any that I did install were in the past month, so I know they work with 1.2 unless something's changed in the past month. Apr 08 21:37:57 Well, I guess now's the time to go to PR 1.3, and if it fails I can still fall back onto PR 1.2 Apr 08 21:38:05 dunno Apr 08 21:38:15 check HAM update Apr 08 21:38:31 Unfortunately, I need to get my IMEI number to get Nokia's firmware image ... which means taking off my Impregnable Otter Case ... which is so impregnable that it takes me half an hour to pry it off... :P Apr 08 21:38:48 or *#06# Apr 08 21:38:55 or Settings - About product Apr 08 21:39:21 or dbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.phone.SIM /com/nokia/phone/SIM/security Phone.Sim.Security.get_imei | grep string | cut -f 2 -d '"' Apr 08 21:39:26 MohammadAG: Oh. Yeah, that might be a good idea ... :P Apr 08 21:42:33 Two more features to implement for my next release of Columbus. Apr 08 21:42:41 Then an RC1 Apr 08 21:42:55 And hopefully I can finally get it out of the freakin' barn :) Apr 08 21:43:07 What's the difference between the Global firmware and the USA / UK / whatever region firmware? Apr 08 21:43:23 get global Apr 08 21:43:25 kwtm: the image size Apr 08 21:43:33 not much difference, except for strings Apr 08 21:43:37 I don't know if anyone has bothered doing a diff tbh Apr 08 21:43:38 and some language packages Apr 08 21:43:52 I think some stop fmtx? Apr 08 21:43:59 no Apr 08 21:44:11 MohammadAG: Ok, so more language support l10n or something? Apr 08 21:44:19 they all do if the region in CAL is one that doesn't support it Apr 08 21:44:23 no Apr 08 21:44:24 I though china doesn't have fmtx Apr 08 21:44:33 Oh right Apr 08 21:44:34 global language packages have the suffix -mr0 Apr 08 21:44:44 it's disabled in software, twice Apr 08 21:44:49 alterego: Ahhh... fmtx is a separate thing --for some reason the FM transmitter widget keeps complaining that "USB device is connected" (it's not) but I'll leave that for another time. Apr 08 21:45:19 complains about usb? haha Apr 08 21:45:32 alterego, though indian sw lacks skype afaik Apr 08 21:45:47 Heh Apr 08 21:46:04 I thought skype was a seperate download, but I guess it isn't Apr 08 21:46:28 it's built in Apr 08 21:48:39 So, just to be absolutely sure (I don't want to mess this up), the "firmware" image (containing Maemo) is also known as the "FIASCO" image; and the "eMMC" image (which contains ~/MyDocs etc.) is what "vanilla" refers to? And the "eMMC" and "firmware" are the two things I need to flash, and in that order? Apr 08 21:49:14 kwtm, read the wiki page :P Apr 08 21:49:23 ~flashing Apr 08 21:49:24 i heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Apr 08 21:49:29 alterego: I did. I want a live person to confirm this because I don't want to mess this up. Apr 08 21:49:46 Well doesn't matter if you do. Apr 08 21:49:54 You can always do it again :P Apr 08 21:50:04 alterego: Yeah, that's what they said the first seven times. Apr 08 21:50:13 And we all say follow the wiki :P Apr 08 21:50:39 alterego: Well, the wiki does not confirm that "FIASCO" is same as "firmware", for starters. Apr 08 21:51:04 The wiki has been written by people who are familiar with the topic and don't realize they are using terms that may be confusing to the newcomer. Apr 08 21:51:58 Admittedly the wiki should really contain the full filenames Apr 08 21:52:55 it does Apr 08 21:52:56 a n Apr 08 21:53:08 I remember there was something that tripped me up the first time I did this last year. It took me forever to confirm that two different names were referring to the same thing. What *does* FIASCO stand for, anyway? Apr 08 21:53:15 and the like 3rd sentence in the n900 section says that the FIASCO image is the rootfs Apr 08 21:53:34 ANd what is "vanilla" eMMC? Is there any other type? I haven't seen any reference to anything else. Apr 08 21:53:42 Well, FIASCO is actually the file format for the images you flash, which is both images are FIASCO images. Apr 08 21:54:26 alterego: So, from what you're saying, it's actually *wrong* to say "Always flash the eMMC image first, then the FIASCO image" as it says in http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php because *both* are FIASCO images? Apr 08 21:54:52 And you're saying, "Just go read the wiki which will answer all your questions"? Apr 08 21:54:54 general accepted usage is that FIASCO = rootfs, as stated in the wiki Apr 08 21:55:04 nid0: Where in the wiki does it say that? Apr 08 21:55:08 Yeah, I'm just being pedantic Apr 08 21:55:14 EMMC is mydocs Apr 08 21:55:18 http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#N900 Apr 08 21:55:21 3 lines down Apr 08 21:55:23 And COMBINED is rootfs Apr 08 21:55:29 •(flashing the) FIASCO aka *COMBINED*, also referred to as "rootfs" though this file and flashing process also consists of / affects NOLO bootloader (the several stages), the kernel, and usually the GSM modem firmware, in addition to the root filesystem which is basically the content of your 240 MB NAND flash storage and implements the Linux operating system. Apr 08 21:55:32 nid0: And why would it be generally accepted usage for something that's ambiguous? How hard would it be to do %s/FIASCO/firmware/g ? Apr 08 21:56:07 nid0: So the FIASCO is actually the combined firmware and eMMC image, then? Apr 08 21:56:38 eh? no Apr 08 21:56:50 So the NAND storage is the faster memory in which the kernel operates, and "flash" memory is the 32GB slower memory used as a RAMdisk (even though both types of memories are "flash"ed) Apr 08 21:57:12 Why is it called "combined" then? Apr 08 21:57:36 Because it's kernel+rootfs+cal+cellmofirmware+bootloader Apr 08 21:59:04 alterego: Ahh... so kernel+rootfs+cal+cellmofirmware+bootloader all belong on one type of memory --and, more importantly, this is *all* that belongs on this memory (nothing else)? And the eMMC is a different type of memory, flashed by a different image file? Apr 08 21:59:44 kwtm: no, because the firmware is actually _inside_ the cellular modem :) Apr 08 21:59:50 So it's not just the nand flash :) Apr 08 22:00:30 It's a combination of the rootfs nand flash, which also houses the kernel and the bootloader, as well as firmware for the cellular modem which is actually _inside_ the modem chip and seperate. Apr 08 22:01:22 Anyway, the wiki is hard to follow even for someone familiar with the terminology like me Apr 08 22:01:32 When you say "the cellular modem", this is referring to hardware or software? When I transfer ("flash") the file named RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin into my N900, what do you call the place where that file goes? Is it "rootfs nand flash and cellular modem" --ie. two different hardware devices/memory chips? Apr 08 22:01:44 ShadowJK: Thank you for the support. Apr 08 22:01:52 Yeah, to be honest I don't find it too easy to follow :D Apr 08 22:02:51 kwtm: it's a combination of different bits for different areas. Most goes into the NAND, like I said, the bootload, kernel and rootfs are all in the nand. Then you've got CAL which is in a different memory unit (I think) and the cellular firmware is a memory unit inside the cellular modem chip. Apr 08 22:02:56 kwtm, "kernel + rootfs + call + bootloader" is one physical chip. Cellular firmware is another chip. The modem actually consists of many chips, it has its own ARM9 CPU, its own RAM and its own flash chip. Apr 08 22:02:56 So no, not all one area. Apr 08 22:03:01 Where as the eMMC is all one area. Apr 08 22:03:22 And the GPS too :) Apr 08 22:03:52 ShadowJK: Interesting ... so when I flash, the N900 will sort out which part of the image goes where? That's surprisingly sophisticated. Been a while since I've done electrical engineering, I suppose. Apr 08 22:04:20 kwtm: actually the flasher program does that. Apr 08 22:04:24 kwtm: not the N900 Apr 08 22:04:46 alterego: I see. Apr 08 22:05:10 kwtm: and I guess it's a mixture of protocols, I think the flashing of the cellmo is done via a psuedo TTY serial communication, with a specific set of strange command incantations that says "Put me into firmware upload mode" Apr 08 22:05:25 The cellmo is practically a stand alone computer with memory, processor and operating system. Apr 08 22:05:34 nope, at least hajf of it is done by NOLO Apr 08 22:05:56 Btw, just to make sure I'm doing this for the right reason: /home is of filetype ext3 and contains symlinks and perms and all that good stuff right? Otherwise there's no point me shrinking the vfat ~/MyDocs to make the rest of ~/ bigger. Apr 08 22:05:57 DocScrutinizer51: oh yeah, sure NOLO handles comms routing and flashing of NAND and eMMC Apr 08 22:06:22 DocScrutinizer51: undeclared synonym alert: is "NOLO" the same as the flasher program? Apr 08 22:06:35 kwtm, boot loader Apr 08 22:06:36 /home is ext3 /home/MyDocs is mounted as fat32 Apr 08 22:07:04 NOkia LOader :) Apr 08 22:07:13 alterego: Excellent. Bring on 28G of that ext3 goodness! Apr 08 22:07:43 The first thing that runs when the main CPU of the N900 starts up. It handles and receives the communication from the flasher utility on a PC. If the user isn't trying to flash, it prepares the hardware for booting, checks that there's vaguely enough battery power, and then loads the linux kernel Apr 08 22:07:45 alterego: I figured that was what NOLO stood for but I didn't know if it was the loader for booting up, or for "loading" the flash image from laptop onto N900, etc. Apr 08 22:07:52 Yay, download done! Here we go. Apr 08 22:07:57 kwtm: both ;) Apr 08 22:08:13 for all I know, NOLO is "NOt a LOader" or something.... Apr 08 22:08:21 NOLO is the bootload, but obviously when the system is "booting" it can go into flashing mode with the USB connected and the flasher app running on a host. Apr 08 22:09:13 DocScrutinizer51: So, where your web page says sed -e "s/2048/$NEW-HOME-SIZE/" path/to/*VANILLA*.bin >patched-VANILLA.bin that's actually modifying a *binary* image file, right? I mean, what if the sequence "2048" occurs elsewhere in the file? Apr 08 22:09:46 it doesnt Apr 08 22:10:46 Turned GEdit into my own sexy Qml development environment Apr 08 22:10:55 Okay. But ... umm, if I'm only modifying the eMMC file , why do I have to reflash the FIASCO combined image, too? Apr 08 22:10:57 How can a website for 140 character posts of BS be so insanely bloated. Apr 08 22:11:05 Well, I just made CTRL+F5 execute qmlviewer -opengl main.qml in the directory of the document you're editing .. Apr 08 22:11:13 GAN900: It's how they make their money. Ads, man, ads! Apr 08 22:11:22 Somebody needs to administer beatings to these web developers. Apr 08 22:11:35 kwtm, worse still is all of the "functionality". Apr 08 22:12:15 kwtm: /opt erasure Apr 08 22:12:51 DocScrutinizer51: Ohhh... right, if/when I flash both, the FIASCO comes *after* the eMMC and that's what sets the eMMC right again. Ok Apr 08 22:12:54 you *could* save and then restore whole /home Apr 08 22:13:31 DocScrutinizer51: That's what I did. That's why I was asking how to rsync back onto ~/ over the USB connection. Faster than wifi. I make daily backups of ~/. Apr 08 22:15:11 Anyone know any problem with shrinking the vfat ~/MyDocs to only 2G? My camera/video photos go onto uSD card (16GB). Apr 08 22:20:41 DocScrutinizer51: Just re-read your comment. I think you were referring to /home including /home/opt and I thought you meant ~/ meaning /home/user. No, I haven't backed up /home/opt. Apr 08 22:28:24 the blue on the n900 display is so deep and rich Apr 08 22:28:30 it's different than my laptop Apr 08 22:31:45 i think it was nicer on n810 Apr 08 22:32:41 n900 is kinda cold Apr 08 22:35:56 kwtm: speedevil is happy with 2GB afaik Apr 08 22:36:18 * SpeedEvil forgets the context. Apr 08 22:36:26 * SpeedEvil may nothave enough RAM. Apr 08 22:36:31 DocScrutinizer: It says Invalid FIASCO subimage id (00) Apr 08 22:36:34 Oh. Apr 08 22:36:42 o.O Apr 08 22:36:43 I shrunk mydocs to 4G Apr 08 22:37:08 I just did it hackily. Apr 08 22:37:32 kwtm: you need to patch vanilla, not combined Apr 08 22:37:49 Well the full 3 lines are : Image 'mmc', size 255947 kB \n Version RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA \n Invalid FIASCO subimage id (00) Apr 08 22:38:05 umm Apr 08 22:38:25 strange, others reported it worked for them Apr 08 22:38:33 I mounted mydocs RO, tarred all the contents to /home. unmounted mydocs, fdisked to delete mydocs. created a 4G partition, with the rest as another partition. untarred mydocs as vfat onto the 2G partition withthe original partition number. Apr 08 22:38:42 DocScrutinizer: Aha, you thought when it said "FIASCO" it referred to the combined, didn't you? Hence the danger in calling something by an invalid name ("FIASCO" != combined) ... anyway, this seems to refer to the vanilla image. I did rename the vanilla file. Do you think I have to preserve the filename? Apr 08 22:38:53 then made the other one ext3. Apr 08 22:38:56 'just works' Apr 08 22:39:07 DocScrutinizer: Another possibility is: I changed 2048 to 30720 --do you think the extra character made the file one byte longer and invalidated it? Apr 08 22:39:18 (preserve name) no Apr 08 22:39:30 yes Apr 08 22:40:05 so I am limited to 9999 MB, then, (isn't that less than 10 GB?) and can't use 30 GB. Apr 08 22:40:14 I suggest you use a hexeditor and search for the 2048 Apr 08 22:40:38 DocScrutinizer: I can search with hex, but can I change it to 30720 which is 5 characters? Apr 08 22:40:39 it's a rather plantext scripty part Apr 08 22:41:03 Will try it. I'm just reading over what SpeedEvil said and thinking whether that would be a better way. Apr 08 22:41:13 sure, just make sure you use some common sense when editing Apr 08 22:41:47 DocScrutinizer: Oh, you mean fiddle with the plaintexty scripty part to somehow lose the extra character and preserve the filesize? Apr 08 22:42:49 SpeedEvil: So did you create a new ext3 partition that was mounted in a subdir of home? Or did you actually increase the size of the /home partition? Apr 08 22:43:17 yes Apr 08 22:44:26 WTF??? My patched eMMC image file is 28 bytes larger in size. DocScrutinizer, you sure "2048" only occurs once in the entire file? Apr 08 22:44:32 kwtm: yes Apr 08 22:44:45 kwtm: I mouint it in /home/user/datra Apr 08 22:44:51 Without the typo. Apr 08 22:45:32 SpeedEvil: I guess the disadvantage is that you won't have more space for /home/opt ... unless you symlink it to /home/user/data Apr 08 22:45:53 great, my KDE hex editor froze. Go, KDE4! Apr 08 22:52:30 kwtm: sorry, there are actually a lot of 2048 Apr 08 22:52:38 but probably only one: Apr 08 22:52:42 ,768,S Apr 08 22:52:43 ,2048,L Apr 08 22:52:45 ,,b Apr 08 22:53:15 ps: I used less to spot that Apr 08 22:55:44 DocScrutinizer: I don't know whether to strangle you or thank you for taking the time to check now (better now than never). My hex editor found, at offset 0xD1, 'partition {size = 2048; fstype = "ext3" ; prefix = "home" }' You think that's the one, or is it ',2048,L'? Apr 08 22:55:55 Hi. Does anyone knnow where to change the amount of seconds HAM looks for updates? Apr 08 22:56:05 DAMN! RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin looks quite a bit different Apr 08 22:56:15 I've got an n900 Apr 08 22:56:44 DocScrutinizer: Do you have the eMMC image file where s/2048/30720/ worked, and see what the few lines before/after looked like? Apr 08 22:56:59 my ,2048,L was from RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin Apr 08 22:57:54 LA^@3362mmc { Apr 08 22:57:55 name = "internal"; Apr 08 22:57:57 partition { Apr 08 22:57:58 fs_type = "vfat"; Apr 08 22:58:00 prefix = "mydocs"; Apr 08 22:58:01 no_create = true; Apr 08 22:58:03 } Apr 08 22:58:04 partition { Apr 08 22:58:06 size = 2048; Apr 08 22:58:07 fs_type = "ext3"; Apr 08 22:58:09 prefix = "home"; Apr 08 22:58:10 } Apr 08 22:58:12 partition { Apr 08 22:58:14 size = 768; Apr 08 22:58:15 fs_type = "swap"; Apr 08 22:58:16 } Apr 08 22:58:18 ooops, sorry Apr 08 22:58:19 anyway, that's it Apr 08 22:58:21 what happened with the old pastie.org pastebin etc Apr 08 22:58:23 Heh Apr 08 22:58:24 :P Apr 08 22:58:33 DocScrutinizer: I think that's the one that I found, then. Is that text anywhere near the beginning, offset 0xD1 or so? Apr 08 22:58:36 accident Apr 08 22:58:46 yes Apr 08 22:58:46 Sc0rpius: I'm sure he didn't mean to do it. Apr 08 22:58:53 I know I know :P Apr 08 22:59:30 Ok. I think we should maybe modify the sed s/2048/$BIGNUMBER/ to quit after the first occurrence (not sure how to do it with sed; I know how to do it with awk). Apr 08 22:59:48 Anyway, now trying to convince my KDE hex editor to behave like a real KDE program. :( Apr 08 23:00:12 kwtm: yes Apr 08 23:00:49 There's a space before 2048, so I think it should work that we do / 2048/30720/ to preserve the file length. Apr 08 23:00:50 I think we should modify it to s/ size = 2048/ size = ?????/ Apr 08 23:01:06 DocScrutinizer: Ah, even better idea. Yes, we should do it that way. Apr 08 23:07:58 Ok, in case you were interested: I did try s/size = 2048/size = 30720/ which makes the file longer by 1 char. It said: Image 'mmc', size 255947 kB \n Version RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA \n FIASCO subimage data length mismatch. So it does check the length. Now trying modification without changing length. Apr 08 23:10:05 Now flashing ... it says "erasing CMT". WHat is CMT? Cellular Modem thingy? Apr 08 23:10:12 yes Apr 08 23:14:56 Okay, so as I said, it proceeded to the "Erasing CMT" part which it hadn't before, so there has been progress made. BUt now it says "SU_PREPARE_DATA_BLOCK_REQ terminated with error code 3." (this is after "Version of 'sw-release': RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2.002_PR_002") So it looks like it was putting the "combined" image on and found some error ... I don't even know if it's a real error or some warning. Apr 08 23:15:30 Nope, the N900 is non-responsive. Apr 08 23:16:03 Any ideas? If no, I'm going to try reflashing with PR 1.2 instead of PR 1.3 Apr 08 23:18:11 Ok, guys, the N900 is not responding to plugging/unplugging USB, keypresses, or the power button in attempts to reflash those images. Apr 08 23:20:44 man, this channel is strangely silent now that something's gone wrong, compared to when someone said, "just read the wiki. We're all telling you to read the wiki." Apr 08 23:21:33 because it's midnight in Europe, right? Apr 08 23:21:42 yes Apr 08 23:22:37 kwtm, it's 01:22 AM in EU Apr 08 23:22:53 No, it's not. Apr 08 23:23:04 Well, it is, but not only. Apr 08 23:23:09 It's also 0:22 Apr 08 23:27:37 DocScrutinizer, did you know how fun C++0x is? Apr 08 23:30:48 heaps-o-fun? Apr 08 23:31:04 kwtm: flashing CMT is a COMBINED thing, unrelated to VANILLA Apr 08 23:31:39 DocScrutinizer: Well, I guess the question now is: why am I not able to flash? Apr 08 23:32:02 kwtm: but I think 30720 is definitely too keen Apr 08 23:32:34 DocScrutinizer: So you think it might just be a matter of extent, and maybe 28G would be ok? Apr 08 23:33:26 I guess the flashing CMT does some storing of the cellmo FW to eMMC prior to flashing it to modem from there Apr 08 23:33:45 28 should be ok Apr 08 23:33:54 Ahhh... wow, this is more complex than I thought. Ok, will try 28. That would make sense of the error msg. Apr 08 23:35:27 Venemo: nope Apr 08 23:36:41 kwtm: flasing the safe way (start flasher, plug in N900, insert battery while holding 'u') should still work Apr 08 23:38:04 unless some bad luck caused NOLO getting damaged, which would need a coldflashing procedure (slightly more complex than usual flashing) Apr 08 23:38:41 DocScrutinizer: Hmm... it takes quite a bit of acrobatics to insert battery while holding 'u' so I'm inserting the battery (device off) and then holding 'u' while plugging in USB. Apr 08 23:39:17 yeah, but make sure it doesn't start up on inserting bat. Sometimes it does that Apr 08 23:39:35 DocScrutinizer, lambda functions are fun Apr 08 23:40:01 aah, I know those from errr Python? Apr 08 23:40:29 Hmm, after flashing the eMMC, now it says Suitable USB device not found, waiting. even though the Nokia is plugged into USB and in fact already flashed partway this way. Apr 08 23:40:35 DocScrutinizer, I dunno noting about Python Apr 08 23:40:38 DocScrutinizer, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%2B%2B0x#Lambda_functions_and_expressions Apr 08 23:41:30 kwtm: after flashing VANILLA you need to shutdown the device by removing bat Apr 08 23:41:41 bug in NOLO Apr 08 23:41:56 wtf? I think I may have contributed to my problem --I'm supposed to flash eMMC first and then combined, right? Apr 08 23:42:18 no Apr 08 23:42:19 Why did I reverse the order in my script that I wrote last year? I already knew this last year. Strange ... I just never double-checked... Apr 08 23:42:40 it's irrelevant as long as you don't start the linux kernel in between flashes Apr 08 23:43:08 No? It says ... oh. Ok. So my script was right. Apr 08 23:43:23 and actually flashing COMBINED last is more safe, except it has that nasty NOLO bug Apr 08 23:44:28 DocScrutinizer: Okay, so you're saying that although it shouldn't matter which order I flash it in, it's better to have eMMC first, and combined last (as long as I then remove the battery and reinsert after flashing combined). Apr 08 23:44:44 as you may flash COMBINED any time, you of course also may flash it after VANILLA Apr 08 23:45:10 Well, right now it's not flashing vanilla. It says no USB device, and the USB cable is plugged right in. Apr 08 23:45:28 well, you'll need a bat inserted to flash COMBINED ;-D Apr 08 23:45:29 Can I unplug and then replug or will it try to do nasty stuff like boot up again? Apr 08 23:45:45 I *did* flash combined ... Apr 08 23:46:01 I'm waiting for it to flash eMMC. Remove the battery again? Apr 08 23:46:46 remove and insert bat, flash VANILLA, remove and insert bat, flash COMBINED Apr 08 23:47:28 DocScrutinizer: That's what I was saying, flash Vanilla first, and you said it didn't matter. Ok, so now I will go trying again with flashing Vanilla first. Apr 08 23:47:35 make sure the device is powered down and hold 'u' while plugging in Apr 08 23:48:14 [2011-04-09 01:42:50] and actually flashing COMBINED last is more safe, except it has that nasty NOLO bug Apr 08 23:50:42 [16:43] DocScrutinizer: Okay, so you're saying that although it shouldn't matter which order I flash it in, it's better to have eMMC first, and combined last Apr 08 23:50:43 kwtm: my [2011-04-09 01:41:45] no << was ambiguous Apr 08 23:50:46 sorry Apr 08 23:51:56 kwtm: and yes, that's what I was saying Apr 08 23:53:18 Ok, so now I started over again, removed batt, reinserted (device did not start up by itself), I hold 'u' down and plug in USB. Then it says "USB device found found at bus 001, device address 028. Found device RX-51, hardware revision 2101 NOLO version 1.4.14 Version of 'sw-release': RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2.002_PR_002 Booting device into flash mode. " Apr 08 23:53:35 Then it says "Suitable USB device not found, waiting. " so it's not flashing. Apr 08 23:53:48 So it's not flashing the eMMC at all. Apr 08 23:53:58 that's a problem of cable or PC Apr 08 23:54:13 or battery of N900 getting weak Apr 08 23:54:43 No, because the first time it said "suitable USB device not found/waiting", when I plugged it in, it did give the few lines I gave above. But then it stopped again with USB device not found. Also, I was able to flash firmware. Apr 08 23:54:53 battery was full an hour ago. Apr 08 23:56:05 reboot your PC Apr 08 23:57:09 or make sure there's no cdc_ether and cdc_lokia module loaded (or was it g_* ?) Apr 08 23:58:57 Ok, the "safe way to flash" that you mentioned (batt out, start flasher program, plug in USB, hold down u key, insert battery) does not work and the flasher program does not even detect the USB connection the first time (as opposed to detecting it, spitting out a few lines of output and then hanging at a second "waiting for USB"-type message). Apr 08 23:59:49 What does the cdc_ether and cdc_lokia do? I can just rmmod it? Apr 09 00:00:57 hmm, timing of the protocol at start of flashing is kinda tricky. Sometimes fails. As long as you flash COMBINED last you can experiment, plug first while holding 'u' and make sure the USB icon is on NOKIA screen, then start flasher Apr 09 00:01:28 they are both drivers that deal with mass storage and nokiasuite Apr 09 00:01:43 or similar crap, actually phonet Apr 09 00:02:00 phonet is another driver that mustn't be loaded Apr 09 00:02:25 all those may get loaded as soon as you accidentally boot up the N900 while connected Apr 09 00:02:36 modprobe -r is safe Apr 09 00:03:06 s/lokia/nokia/ Apr 09 00:03:52 Thanks for taking the time to help me with this. Apr 09 00:04:01 np Apr 09 00:05:15 can you check http://pastie.org/1773974 ? Apr 09 00:06:57 hmm Apr 09 00:07:04 aaarrrghhh... so I've removed module cdc_phonet, and then when I reflash and it hangs at the second "waiting for USB" message, I see that cdc_phonet has been reloaded. How do I tell it not to reload that module? Apr 09 00:07:15 just try with an unmodified image, to make sure Apr 09 00:07:30 Good grief, so it looks like Ubuntu has reloaded itself to make it unable to flash my N900... Apr 09 00:08:17 looks like N900 booted into kernel or sth, you didn't use -R parameter, did you? Apr 09 00:08:36 do you have a dir /etc/modprobe.d ? Apr 09 00:08:51 "-R" parameter with what? You mean the flasher program? Apr 09 00:08:57 yes Apr 09 00:09:00 if yes you could try putting a blacklist file in there... Apr 09 00:09:36 Ohhh... I did. Is that a reboot flag? Damn, I think I switched the order of the image files and also swapped the -R parameter into the first image without moving it to the second image. Ok. Apr 09 00:09:42 yes Apr 09 00:09:44 DocScrutinizer, if ubuntu loaded cdc_phonet it probably has attached to the device? Apr 09 00:09:49 Can I leave out the -R parameter altogether? And reboot manually? Apr 09 00:10:08 yes, that's absolutely mandatory Apr 09 00:10:14 ah Apr 09 00:10:45 DocScrutinizer: Sorry, what I meant was: to be safe, I don't use -R for either the firmware or eMMC reflash, and then just remove/reinsert battery to reboot? Apr 09 00:10:56 Just to be safe, in case in the future I swap the order of those lines again. Apr 09 00:11:00 yes Apr 09 00:11:35 oooh you're using a script? Apr 09 00:12:20 DocScrutinizer: Right, I'm using a script so I can make quick changes and also remember a year from now what I did. Is that a problem? Apr 09 00:12:42 also, it is still hanging wiht the second "waiting for USB". It seems like cdc_phonet is a more likely culprit now? Apr 09 00:12:44 now that makes more sense then. I got extremely puzzled why it says "no device found" a second time Apr 09 00:13:16 kwtm: you need to boot up device for each time you're flashing Apr 09 00:13:33 [2011-04-09 01:46:13] remove and insert bat, flash VANILLA, remove and insert bat, flash COMBINED Apr 09 00:13:54 hold 'u' EACH TIME Apr 09 00:14:18 hard to do when running from a script Apr 09 00:14:46 DocScrutinizer: Right, I know that. I've got a wait-for-user thing in between. See http://pastie.org/1773989 Right now the errors are occurring for the eMMC *only* Apr 09 00:15:08 In fact, tell you what, I'm going to comment out the firmware reflash entirely and only reflash eMMC. Apr 09 00:15:09 the script method only works when flashing COMBINED first, as on flashing VANILLA NOLO hangs when finished Apr 09 00:16:42 but then you MUST omit -R on first flasher cmdline - i.e. the COMBINED flashing in that case Apr 09 00:18:31 I did omit "-R" on both flasher command lines now --isn't that what http://pastie.org/1773989 shows? Apr 09 00:18:52 as with this sequence the device MUST NOT boot after flashing COMBINED before flashing VANILLA Apr 09 00:20:03 Anyway, I commented out the Combined flashing entirely. So now it's flashing only Vanilla. And it's giving the same error message as in http://pastie.org/1773974 Apr 09 00:20:18 (In case you haven't noticed, those are two different pasties.) Apr 09 00:20:59 you tried with an unpatched image file? Apr 09 00:21:06 Yes, I tried with an unpatched image file. Apr 09 00:21:38 then that's probably caused by your PC or by cable Apr 09 00:22:12 I couldn't think of anything else, except of course weak battery Apr 09 00:22:39 or ubuntu as i said Apr 09 00:22:44 * kwtm is thinking back to 2.5 hours ago: [14:48] alterego: I don't want to mess this up. ... [14:49] Well doesn't matter if you do. You can always do it again :P Apr 09 00:22:47 loading that phonet module Apr 09 00:24:17 It's not a cable. It flashed the firmware fine. Also cables don't work for the first connection, and then after 4 lines of output stop working. The battery was charged to full (it refused to charge further since the battery was already full) and it lasts at least 8 hours if it's not using wifi. Apr 09 00:24:30 Will check that phonet module ... nox-, you were saying something about a module.d directory? Apr 09 00:25:03 yeah Apr 09 00:25:03 kwtm: flashing eats lots of battery. NOLO has no powwr management Apr 09 00:25:37 DocScrutinizer: So ... then what? Can I recharge the battery while in the N900 is improperly reflashed? Apr 09 00:25:46 no Apr 09 00:26:24 but as long as it starts with usb icon on NOKIA screen, the battery should be ok Apr 09 00:26:41 DocScrutinizer: It does start with USB icon on (dark) Nokia screen. Apr 09 00:26:55 then it's probably your PC Apr 09 00:27:07 nox-: I see now that you said /etc/modprobe.d, but within that directory, "grep phonet *" reveals nothing. Apr 09 00:27:25 blacklist Apr 09 00:27:53 yeah thats fine, try putting a file in there with `blacklist cdc_phonet' Apr 09 00:27:54 not sure how to blacklist it. Under what filename should I file this blacklist? Apr 09 00:28:10 something like /etc/modprobe.d/custom-backlist Apr 09 00:28:29 then rmmod it and try again Apr 09 00:29:07 hey nox, my client is starting to come together http://i.imgur.com/5cLXT.jpg Apr 09 00:29:26 i the layout of elements is starting to settle-in to 'optimal' Apr 09 00:29:42 which game is that? (/me not much of a gamer :) Apr 09 00:30:18 pupnik: Looking good. Apr 09 00:30:35 thanks Apr 09 00:30:44 says so on the pic :) Apr 09 00:31:15 A bit busy. But ... Apr 09 00:31:35 well it's kind of stats-driven Apr 09 00:31:38 yeah Apr 09 00:31:41 i've hidden away a lot already Apr 09 00:32:02 The top bar is what - inventory? Apr 09 00:32:09 quickslots Apr 09 00:32:10 nox-: There is a cdc_phonet and a phonet. Do I need to blacklist both? Apr 09 00:32:12 bound to wertyuio Apr 09 00:32:24 (no F1-F8 available) Apr 09 00:32:38 kwtm, dunno, but i guess wouldnt hurt Apr 09 00:33:34 nox-: THere is also a cdc_acm. That's okay? Apr 09 00:33:50 kwtm: then look at lsmod, and rmmod / modprobe -r all *phonet* Apr 09 00:33:58 kwtm, i doubt n900 would use that Apr 09 00:34:14 rmmod it Apr 09 00:34:26 won't hurt either Apr 09 00:34:27 DocScrutinizer: Ok, now "lsmod | grep phonet" gives no output. Think it's all gone Apr 09 00:34:29 true Apr 09 00:36:35 Ok, so the flasher script is still giving the same response, hanging after the second "waiting for USB". There is no output from "lsmod | grep phonet" . Apr 09 00:36:48 :( Apr 09 00:37:03 basically you can rmmod all you suspect and like to do. rmmod won't remove any modules that are in use Apr 09 00:37:07 anything else like cdc? Apr 09 00:37:22 yes Apr 09 00:37:46 and I'd really ask you to enter this one cmdline directly to a root xterm Apr 09 00:37:48 Here's a clue: when I reinsert the batt, then slide out the keyboard, then hold down u, then insert the USB cable, then the dark nokia screen *with* the USB symbol comes up ... but then the USB symbol disappears. Is that a clue? And the charger LED is glowing steady orange (not flashing orange like when charging) Apr 09 00:37:52 not via script Apr 09 00:38:15 DocScrutinizer: But if rmmod didn't work if the module is in use, wouldn't lsmod show it? Apr 09 00:38:32 DocScrutinizer: Okay, I will enter that command via root to command line, instead of in a script. Apr 09 00:39:07 kwtm: I just meant it's safe to rmmod * Apr 09 00:39:13 Actually, let me try one more thing before I panic. Apr 09 00:40:12 Okay, so there's one thing that works, and has consistently worked: Apr 09 00:40:16 flashing the firmware. Apr 09 00:40:48 So I commented out the "flashing eMMC" line in the script, and uncommented in the "flashing firmware". So it's happily flashing the firmware now. (right now it's on the erasing CMT step) Apr 09 00:41:00 So I think that pretty much rules out any cable/battery/phonet thing, right? Apr 09 00:41:46 please rmmod all suspicious cdc_* and *phonet*, then plug in the device while holding 'u' (without flasher started!) and see if the USB icon stays there for at least 30s. Then start flasher cmd for COMBINED, without -R Apr 09 00:42:38 right Apr 09 00:43:33 but still I'm very unhappy about that script, as it adds complexity and points of failure Apr 09 00:43:50 I'm going to try something first --not disrespecting your advice, just trying this. I've flashed the firmware. Now I'm going to let it boot up and see what it does. Whatever firmware is left in there... Apr 09 00:44:30 DocScrutinizer: Are you serious? For me the script makes things a lot simpler and easier to test, I have a record of what happened, etc. It's basically exactly what I would type on the commandline, except I don't have to misspell filenames/options, etc. Apr 09 00:45:05 I am actually very nervous about typing anything on the command line. WIth a script I can proof read it first. Apr 09 00:45:11 yeah, and your pastebins don't show any cmdline Apr 09 00:45:53 please at least add set -v to top of your script Apr 09 00:46:13 you mean -x ? Apr 09 00:46:22 or that Apr 09 00:46:49 sorry, I'm tired Apr 09 00:47:03 Ok, well, it's booted up. I guess the firmware works. Now I have a blank N900. I think for now I'll just reload everything. Apr 09 00:47:27 The vfat ~/MyDocs is still 27G and /home is still 2GB. I think I'll leave it and go repartition some other time. Apr 09 00:47:38 How do I tell whether it's PR 1.2 or PR 1.3? Apr 09 00:47:47 I think you urgently should check what mount and df -h are telling you Apr 09 00:47:59 aah Apr 09 00:47:59 mount and df -h are saying okay things. Apr 09 00:48:32 settings, about product Apr 09 00:48:35 But non-ideal. It's still the old partitioning. I'm going to turn it in for a while. I need to check if I got voicemail (I have a potential new employer) and I couldn't without cell phone. Apr 09 00:48:51 CHARGE!! Apr 09 00:49:11 Way ahead of you. Was charging before I typed "mount " "df -h". Apr 09 00:49:19 :-D Apr 09 00:49:21 Maemo 5 version 20.2010.36 --is that PR 1.3? Apr 09 00:49:37 yes Apr 09 00:49:48 Man, I almost forgot where to find settings, with my customizations all gone. Apr 09 00:50:11 Thank you DocScrutinizer. And my lesson is: never trust someone who says, "It's easy! Just read the wiki! None of us have had problems!" Apr 09 00:50:41 wont it copy stuff to opt for a few mins now after a fresh flash? Apr 09 00:50:42 my suspicion is the edit of VANILLA didn't pan out Apr 09 00:50:50 yes Apr 09 00:51:15 DocScrutinizer: No, I tried flashing the unmodified firmware and it didn't work, remember? Apr 09 00:51:17 so may want to wait for that to finish first Apr 09 00:51:31 I mean unmodified eMMC. Apr 09 00:51:34 that's why I was unhappy with the script Apr 09 00:52:27 too easy to forget about correct filename, and try over and over with the wrong cmdline Apr 09 00:52:33 Well, the script doesn't edit Vanilla. I manually edited vanilla. The script just sets $EMMC_IMAGE_FILENAME (I didn't show that part of the script) Apr 09 00:52:45 DocScrutinizer: Oh, it shows the filename before it flashes. Do you want the full script? Apr 09 00:52:55 nah Apr 09 00:53:00 thanks Apr 09 00:53:10 happy it recovered so far Apr 09 00:53:10 It checks the filename, makes sure it exists, displays it to the user, waits for the user to press Enter, then flashes one, then waits for Enter, then flashes another. Apr 09 00:53:25 And comments in my script show all the different filenames I've tried. So I can track which is which. Apr 09 00:53:36 Yeah, I'm too happy about it just working to be frustrated. Apr 09 00:55:03 kwtm: flashing getting right first time sometimes is a bit frustrating. You probably should've tried without customizations first, to get familiar with the pitfalls Apr 09 00:55:26 DocScrutinizer: I did. I've flashed before, last year. That's why I have the script. And it went smoothly once I knew what I was doing. Apr 09 00:55:47 DocScrutinizer: Heck, I ended up flashing twice a day to track down that stupid forever-dots bug that no one believed me about. Apr 09 00:56:11 also quite possible the 'old' VANILLA simply doesn't work on the PR1.3 Apr 09 00:56:39 ?? What? I did not find a new VANILLA for the new PR 1.3 on the web site. Apr 09 00:56:53 after all the new one looks massively different Apr 09 00:57:09 I was surprised that they would be using the old Vanilla, too, but when I tried to download "the lastest Vanilla", I found that I already had a file with the same exact filename. Apr 09 00:57:22 well, you edited the one with the plain text, no? Apr 09 00:57:24 Since the version number is part of the filename, it looks like it's the same file (unless they changed the file but kept the filename) Apr 09 00:58:15 I gather your 'unpatched' version of VANILLA also been the old one Apr 09 00:58:44 DocScrutinizer: What do you mean? I had RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin from before already (which is current, according to the web site); then I edited it and saved it as Vanilla_30G.bin and another as Vanilla_28G.bin (not the real filename but you get the idea). So I was unable to flash the old RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin Apr 09 00:59:03 RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin is the 'old' one Apr 09 00:59:23 Yes, the "unpatched" was the old file. In fact, to make sure I didn't edit it by mistake, I did chmod -w on it. Apr 09 00:59:38 DocScrutinizer: Is there a newer version of Vanilla? What is it called? I didn't see it on the web site. Apr 09 01:00:03 RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin Apr 09 01:00:34 DocScrutinizer: That's the combined firmware. Weren't we talking about the Vanilla eMMC? Apr 09 01:00:35 ooops Apr 09 01:00:54 sorry I'm definitely too tired Apr 09 01:02:15 mhm same Apr 09 01:02:16 Well, you should definitely get some sleep. Thanks for your help anyway. But as far as I can tell, I did everything by the book and we have an undiagnosed problem with flashing the firmware (which I have already flashed before, a year ago) which is not explained by my computer, cable, battery, etc. Apr 09 01:02:36 Probably just another case of the "oh yeah, kwtm found a new bug --sorry about that, we never noticed that one before". >sigh< Apr 09 01:02:41 somewhat, yes Apr 09 01:03:19 nah, I guess the relatively small number of samples allows for a mere coincidence Apr 09 01:03:49 try again flashing plain VANILLA tomorrow. I guess it will work then Apr 09 01:04:14 o/ Apr 09 01:04:15 I *am* flashing with plain Vanilla ... and it *is* tomorrow! (at least for you) Apr 09 01:04:29 anyway... I'm going to try flashing with Windows. Apr 09 01:05:04 actually, I'll try PR 1.2 first. Apr 09 01:05:24 I've spent too much time on this not to try everything else and make this time a big waste. Apr 09 01:05:55 wait for the charge to finish first i guess... Apr 09 01:06:40 how do I get maemo to automount a non vfat sd card Apr 09 01:07:08 i have my sd card format hfsplus, and i can manually mount it fine, but it doesnt mount when inserting Apr 09 01:10:22 bbl Apr 09 01:10:29 Sazpaimon: the setup is a bit fucked up you have to go over all the scripts and stuff Apr 09 01:10:52 :/ Apr 09 01:10:57 * cehteh just commented everything out and mounting it from a handwritten fstab Apr 09 01:11:20 automatically on boot, but not on remove/insert Apr 09 01:11:45 desktop execution widget FTW Apr 09 01:11:59 or QueenBeecon Apr 09 01:12:13 well, its not a big deal Apr 09 01:12:22 i dont expect it to remain hfsplus for much loger Apr 09 01:12:28 *longer Apr 09 01:12:36 I needed to make a liveusb install of OSx Apr 09 01:12:47 I'm amazed we got a driver for hfsplus Apr 09 01:12:52 we didn't Apr 09 01:12:57 i backported hfsutils from sid Apr 09 01:12:58 hehe Apr 09 01:13:15 which was a simple process actually Apr 09 01:13:29 i think hfsutils is just a usermode library Apr 09 01:13:37 Actually, since I know that I can repartition as root, it's not worthwhile trying the reflash Apr 09 01:13:42 oh so its via fuse? Apr 09 01:13:46 is hfs+ supported on sdcards in the iphone .. oh stop .. iphone has no card slot :P Apr 09 01:14:03 it isn't via fuse, actually Apr 09 01:14:11 i dont know how it works without a driver Apr 09 01:14:15 the titan kernel may even have hfs+ Apr 09 01:14:30 what kernel do you use? stock? Apr 09 01:15:04 titan Apr 09 01:15:17 likely supports hfs+ Apr 09 01:15:19 kwtm: to repartition you have to umount /home (->/opt) Apr 09 01:16:08 cehteh, i dont think so, hfs kernel support wasnt a dependency for the package Apr 09 01:16:42 http://packages.debian.org/unstable/otherosfs/hfsutils the debian package isnt very descriptive Apr 09 01:16:42 Sazpaimon: it isnt .. the userland tools work on the raw device and dont need kernel support Apr 09 01:16:55 you need kernel support when you want to mount the device, thats all Apr 09 01:17:20 how does the titan kernel have features, are they compiled in or modules Apr 09 01:17:20 if you only use the phone as expensive card-reader which exports the raw device too, then kernel support isnt needed eitehr Apr 09 01:17:26 i can just lsmod it Apr 09 01:17:30 prolly modules Apr 09 01:17:42 you can mount it .. so your kernel supports it Apr 09 01:17:58 anyway im off Apr 09 01:18:05 yeah i guess i cant argue that Apr 09 01:18:09 cat /proc/filesystems Apr 09 01:19:19 cehteh, hfsplus isnt listed Apr 09 01:19:42 but you mounted it on the device? Apr 09 01:19:55 unles I was mistaken Apr 09 01:20:05 ah while its mounted .. it only lists loaded filesystems Apr 09 01:20:57 /lib/modules/2.6.28.10power46/hfsplus.ko Apr 09 01:21:00 there it is Apr 09 01:21:35 /dev/mmcblk1p1 on /media/mmc1 type hfsplus (0) Apr 09 01:21:47 :) Apr 09 01:21:55 yeah there it is Apr 09 01:22:02 it made its way to filesystems Apr 09 01:22:06 so what does hfsutils even do Apr 09 01:22:22 creating/checking a hfs filesystem? Apr 09 01:22:41 it has an hvol, hmount, hcopy, etc files Apr 09 01:22:49 some *fs-utils come with mount helpers, but i guess thats not the case for hfs+ Apr 09 01:23:04 i dont know the hfs+ userland Apr 09 01:23:11 Usage: hmount source-path [partition-no] Apr 09 01:23:14 ineresting Apr 09 01:23:14 xfs is strange enough :P Apr 09 01:23:31 (i dont use that either :P) Apr 09 01:24:01 i think the mount helpers is the hfsprogs package Apr 09 01:25:16 that's some good forward thinking, including an hfsplus module Apr 09 01:25:21 nobody even requested that Apr 09 01:27:39 but then missing out the ISO9660 or some other module, needed for plugging in a DVD drive to h-e-n :-/ Apr 09 01:28:34 you can format DVDs as ext3 Apr 09 01:28:55 UDF Apr 09 01:28:59 yoh, but not playback DrHouse Apr 09 01:29:01 DocScrutinizer: Well, I plan to do what SpeedEvil did and: umount ~/MyDocs, delete and create new smaller partition also vfat and remount ~/MyDocs, then use leftover space to have big ext3 partition, probably mounting it under /mount/bigext3 or some such directory. Then move everything in opt over to a subdir inside it (say /mount/bigext3/opt) and symlink opt to that. Apr 09 01:29:20 /lib/modules/2.6.28.10power46/isofs.ko Apr 09 01:29:26 kwtm: The problem is the leftover space will not automount. Apr 09 01:29:33 /lib/modules/2.6.28.10power46/udf.ko Apr 09 01:29:37 I don't care about this, as it's media stuff I don't want indecxtd. Apr 09 01:29:37 all there .. Apr 09 01:29:53 hm, all hfsprogs gives is mkfs.hfsplus and fsck.hfsplus Apr 09 01:29:54 Okay, I need help: this is not doing anything: dpkg --set-selections < (file I previously stored output of dpkg --get-selections) Why isn't it reinstalling? (Yes, I am root.) Apr 09 01:30:09 SpeedEvil: What do you mean? I can't put it in fstab? Apr 09 01:30:19 kwtm: no Apr 09 01:30:30 kwtm: fstab is autogenerated Apr 09 01:30:38 you can disable that :P Apr 09 01:30:48 Some awk script in /etc/I.forget/ Apr 09 01:31:10 a few # at the right places Apr 09 01:31:14 True. Apr 09 01:31:25 I prefer to screw with system scripts as little as possible. Apr 09 01:31:28 For ovious reasons. Apr 09 01:31:39 well .. if the are that broken Apr 09 01:33:05 cehteh: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=971219#post971219 Apr 09 01:33:24 N900 doesn't charge when turned off, right? (Like, "off" off, not "i turned off the screen" off) Apr 09 01:33:26 ah :) Apr 09 01:33:49 kwtm: it boots into an act-dead mode when you plug in power Apr 09 01:34:00 Oh good. Thx, cehteh Apr 09 01:34:40 doesnt that apply for every nokia phone, if not every phone Apr 09 01:35:03 sidenote .. usb hubs dont provide power when the computer they are attached too is turned off .. even when the hub is powered by a AC-adapter Apr 09 01:35:09 at least thats true for mine Apr 09 01:35:18 cehteh: That varies Apr 09 01:35:34 cehteh, some machines still supply some power to the usb ports Apr 09 01:35:38 cehteh: Cheaper powered hubs don't isolate the outputs. Apr 09 01:35:47 maybe .. but its pita, i once turned the computer off and my n900 drained to zero :P Apr 09 01:35:49 Also - sometimes USB standby is enabled. Apr 09 01:35:59 use an xbox 360 Apr 09 01:36:02 This helps keyboard-wake fore xample work Apr 09 01:36:07 that keeps power to the usb ports when turned off Apr 09 01:36:33 mhm maybe i shall enable keyboard/usb wakeup in the bios. .. that miht help Apr 09 01:36:42 See if you can turn on 'powerr insuspend or similar in BIOS or OS Apr 09 01:36:46 I was trying to figure out what the first thing I would install is on a N900 that's been wiped clean ... turns out it's the keyboard remap cuz I can't stand having to bring up that symbols screen every time I want to type {} [] | ~ or ^ :P Apr 09 01:36:47 yeah Apr 09 01:37:02 well usually this computer runs 24/7 Apr 09 01:37:02 For me it's fleshlight. Apr 09 01:37:05 flashlight Apr 09 01:37:09 haha Apr 09 01:37:15 Or opensshd Apr 09 01:37:30 Or fbreader Apr 09 01:38:22 apropos status report .. how far is megoo on the n900, useable yet? Apr 09 01:38:23 kwtm: why don't you restore? Apr 09 01:39:16 kwtm: i keep meaning to look in to that, for LaTeX - how does that work? which symbols does it get rid of? Apr 09 01:39:35 cehteh: Someone came to visit, using meego for something. It looked unusable. Apr 09 01:39:53 well, two days ago I seen a post on #meego: "embarrassing! I have to boot to maemo, as I need a working device" Apr 09 01:39:59 DocScrutinizer: I didn't backup using the built-in backup utility. I did dpkg --get-selections > filename. Everything is there when I list the file. It's just that dpkg --set-selections doens't seem to do what I thought it would do. Apr 09 01:40:06 ok Apr 09 01:40:20 (I don't know if they werre using the most recent version though) Apr 09 01:40:47 kwtm: dpkg won't restore your settings etc Apr 09 01:40:49 BCMM: What do you mean? If you're referring to the keyboard, I've put {}[]<>~^|% without getting rid of any other keys. Apr 09 01:41:10 kwtm: how's that work? Apr 09 01:41:33 three-button combos? Apr 09 01:41:42 BCMM: Also I got rid of that stupid ? for Shift-Fn ., so I can actually do Fn-lock and type in numbers with decimal points. Also it's ridiculous that the space bar doesn't give a space when I press Fn so I changed that. Apr 09 01:42:21 BCMM: Yeah, 3-button combos are great, as long as you avoid certain keys that actually end up typing two keys. Like Shift-Fn-J will type that character plus whatever's define for Shift-Fn-K. Something to do with the way the hardware is. Apr 09 01:42:33 It works if you do Shift(release)- Fn (release) - J Apr 09 01:43:07 BCMM: It works great, and I can't work without it. I mean, even if you don't do bash programming, even typing a percent sign in everyday email usage is a chore without keyboard remapping. Apr 09 01:43:35 DocScrutinizer: Oh once I've got all the programs restored, I can do an rsync from my home server, which has ~/ backed up. Apr 09 01:43:54 Especially due to https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10354 Apr 09 01:43:56 Bug 10354: Symbol virtual keyboard inconsistent to access from hardware keyboard. Apr 09 01:49:13 Thank $DEITY the N900 has a few basic utilities like sed already onboard. 3 cheers for busybox! Apr 09 01:49:34 *cough* Apr 09 01:49:50 ~messybox Apr 09 01:49:51 messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils Apr 09 01:51:56 DocScrutinizer: Yes yes, I know about busybox and scripting. I mean that I had sed to edit my selections list so I can apt-get install the whole list of files without having to do it manually, so that it will install packages like bash. Apr 09 01:52:31 What I mean is, it's a good thing that, without installing bash, there is busybox. We all have our freedom to be grateful to an extent of our choice, and mine is a great extent. Apr 09 01:55:45 I meant I'd prefer they had opted for bash + tools and no busybox at all Apr 09 01:56:15 Well, busybox is great for systems with limited memory ... and I'm not sure I want bash executing my scripts on the N900. Apr 09 01:56:26 Especially bootup scripts. They're slower on bash. Apr 09 01:56:47 So now we have the best of both worlds! :) Apr 09 01:58:51 kwtm: how much slower? Apr 09 01:59:52 * SpeedEvil can't find his bechmarks. Apr 09 01:59:57 It was a fair bit slower. Apr 09 02:00:04 i think I worked out likely 1-2s boot Apr 09 02:00:05 hmm Apr 09 02:18:39 Sorry, was watching the dpkg script scroll by. I don't know how much slower **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Apr 09 02:59:57 2011