**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 19 02:59:58 2011 May 19 03:53:41 bug 12237 May 19 03:53:43 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/12237 Default WiFi power-saving mode 'Maximum' is unreliable and performs poorly May 19 03:53:58 * ShadowJK shakes head in disbelief May 19 04:42:44 ugh May 19 04:42:51 i sure wish this google calendar sync worked May 19 04:43:12 :) then maemo would be awesome again.. not that it hasn't gotten better lately May 19 04:43:20 kindn of glad i didn't ebay my n900 May 19 04:52:44 ogh May 19 04:52:49 guess the sending of email doesn't work either May 19 04:53:00 wow.. what a letdown the google mail for exchange thing has been May 19 04:53:52 heh May 19 04:53:58 I am looking for another N900 May 19 04:56:35 Is there a problem to buy a danish N900? May 19 05:29:13 oh shit May 19 05:29:20 http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n9-3398.php May 19 05:29:22 i got the google calendar working May 19 05:29:24 Is this realistic? May 19 05:29:25 :) May 19 05:29:29 64gb internal memory? May 19 05:29:33 1ghz cpu May 19 05:29:36 512mb ram? May 19 05:29:51 lolcat: i already have 1ghz cpu on n900 May 19 05:30:53 more ram would be nice though May 19 05:31:03 slonopotamus: No you don't, you have an overclocked 550mhz cpu May 19 05:31:53 lolcat: so? it runs at 1ghz no matter what's written on its case May 19 05:32:22 Hm, talking about OCing or an underclocked device? May 19 05:33:17 robbiethe1st: about http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n9-3398.php May 19 05:33:29 slonopotamus: A non-overclocked HTC Desire is faster than your overclocked phone May 19 05:33:33 is that confirmed? May 19 05:34:21 the next question is do we really want to buy a dead end device? May 19 05:34:27 Yes. May 19 05:34:29 doc|home: They found it on FCC May 19 05:34:40 won't ocing the n900 burn it out? May 19 05:34:44 doc|home: according to link, no May 19 05:34:48 "The Nokia N9 was recently spotted at FCC. A teaser video demonstrating the smartphone has also appeared, and this makes us think that the device will finally be released soon. The release date cannot be guessed yet, but I think it will be around June." May 19 05:34:53 can't see safely running it at 1GHz May 19 05:34:53 Macer: Yes, probably. at least faster than otherwise. May 19 05:34:55 ok May 19 05:35:02 is still a dead-end device, right? May 19 05:35:04 how stable is it running? May 19 05:35:14 or have they confirmed that there'll be more meego devices? May 19 05:35:14 I got 4700NOK from the shop I bougth my N900 May 19 05:35:19 doc|home: i just got my su8w bt keyboard working and google syncing May 19 05:35:21 So I got the money for a N9 ready May 19 05:35:26 Macer: Mine runs at 1.15ghz stably, but it gets hot at 100% load(i.e. games) so I only run it at 1ghz for that. May 19 05:35:26 the email doesn't work but meh. i can use imap for that May 19 05:35:36 and, stably as in 12 days + uptime. May 19 05:35:37 Macer: so don't :) mine runs @1ghz since july 2010. May 19 05:35:47 robbiethe1st: the power kernel says it has broken third party rules in app manager May 19 05:35:52 you know what's up with that? May 19 05:36:01 app manager won't let me update it :) May 19 05:36:19 not that i really see the need for a new kernel but still May 19 05:36:22 Macer: Do what I told the last person: Open a terminal, "sudo apt-get update", "sudo apt-get upgrade" May 19 05:36:29 oh May 19 05:36:35 ok May 19 05:36:43 Also, I was wrong. Not 12 days, 22 days. May 19 05:36:55 22 days? May 19 05:37:00 of what? May 19 05:37:04 Uptime May 19 05:37:10 oh May 19 05:37:21 of uptime May 19 05:37:23 i've probably had my n900 up to over 100 days May 19 05:37:26 There where a Nokia N9 teaser video leaked to Youtube that Nokia had removed May 19 05:37:28 ok May 19 05:37:29 heh May 19 05:37:38 but i wasn't really using it May 19 05:37:48 i'm power using the damn thing now since i got this bt keyboard working May 19 05:37:56 I could have it longer, but I do use it every day and reboot it once in a while, especially when working on custom software May 19 05:37:57 like right now on irc ;) May 19 05:38:19 yesterday i was playing music while using the browser and typing a report in abiword... it's like a small laptop now May 19 05:38:32 once i figure out the cups over ssh crap i'm done May 19 05:40:46 Macer, which BT keyboard? May 19 05:41:06 So do we belive the N9 will be out soon? May 19 05:41:26 lolcat, by end of the year May 19 05:41:32 nokia su8w May 19 05:41:41 the FCC documentation says keep some stuff private for 45 days May 19 05:42:22 ruskie: have it working with my n900 right now May 19 05:42:30 apt says power kernel is still being held back May 19 05:42:43 ruskie: I am hearing rumors it could be announced next month May 19 05:42:50 64GB internal memory, Oo May 19 05:42:59 The following packages have been kept back: kernel-power-bootimg pyside-qt4-core pyside-qt4-gui May 19 05:43:00 I was hoping for 1gb ram though May 19 05:43:09 http://ruskie.codemages.net/scry/index.php/view/40/moon/SI188097.jpg <-- mmm May 19 05:43:27 I'd take those specs with a grain of salt May 19 05:43:37 'cause it /won't/ run Meego. May 19 05:43:59 It'll run a Maemo-based system with a Meego frontend, yes.. but May 19 05:44:14 so still no open drivers? May 19 05:44:22 hm May 19 05:44:30 i wonder why the power kernel still won't install May 19 05:44:31 robbiethe1st, hmm I'd prefer a Maemo frontend ;) May 19 05:44:41 Mee to May 19 05:45:12 ruskie: If it runs Maemo with a Meego frontend, can't we just change it back? May 19 05:45:21 would be nice May 19 05:45:32 And the battery on the N9 is said to be 1200mAh May 19 05:45:38 That sounds completly stupid May 19 05:45:50 ah wel.. better to leave well enough alone.. i don't need the new kernel May 19 05:45:55 n9 with maemo or meego? May 19 05:45:57 new May 19 05:46:00 no way May 19 05:46:07 nokia dropped us already May 19 05:46:17 er May 19 05:46:22 dropped us? May 19 05:46:27 don't look back on the boyfriend who won't return your calls May 19 05:46:39 lolcat, why? May 19 05:46:51 dangergrrl: realistically speaking... all the parts of maemo required to do anything are all there May 19 05:47:06 the kernel works with all the hardware and it is possible to dev a new ui May 19 05:47:10 ruskie: The N900 has 1250mAh and it is too little May 19 05:47:12 i don't believe nokia is releasing another open handset May 19 05:47:19 nor do i May 19 05:47:36 they dumped us opensourcers May 19 05:47:37 ms has their claws into them and nokia is on the ropes and losing value quickly to htc, motorola, etc May 19 05:47:44 time to find a new suitor May 19 05:47:52 dangergrrl: android? May 19 05:47:57 intel May 19 05:48:01 pfft May 19 05:48:02 lolcat, hmm 4 days with nothing much running on it... May 19 05:48:10 i think intel is just dabbing its feet May 19 05:48:14 intel promises meego handhelds May 19 05:48:19 aye May 19 05:48:22 x86 handhelds... May 19 05:48:23 dangergrrl: didn't nokia? May 19 05:48:25 don't wanna May 19 05:48:26 :) May 19 05:48:28 they also promised Atom based handhelds since... 2008? May 19 05:48:29 i think. May 19 05:48:34 ruskie: More like 18 houres May 19 05:48:41 well who else can we look to? May 19 05:48:42 lolcat, I get 4 days May 19 05:48:45 ourselves? May 19 05:48:54 ruskie: I like(d) my phone May 19 05:48:54 dangergrrl, samsung and their maemo like stack initiative May 19 05:49:07 i can not finance the fab of 1000 cortex a9 phones May 19 05:49:08 my n900 with maemo seems to do everything i need it to do ... what it is really missing is something to make it look newer May 19 05:49:09 can you? May 19 05:49:15 i wouldn't mind more eye candy but mehg May 19 05:49:29 i would like 1080p May 19 05:49:33 dangergrrl: other arms are probably cheaper May 19 05:49:46 the a9's are nice May 19 05:49:47 Macer: paint it May 19 05:49:53 slonopotamus: haha May 19 05:49:58 dual 1.5ghz May 19 05:50:04 1080p on small lences sucks May 19 05:50:06 i am going to see if i can get a rubber cover for it May 19 05:50:11 that's pc power in your palm May 19 05:50:17 dangergrrl: what is the tv output of the n900? May 19 05:50:25 i should dig up my cable May 19 05:50:26 the 1080p uis for a mini hdmi plug May 19 05:50:34 it is pal or ntsc May 19 05:50:38 Macer: 640x480 afaik May 19 05:50:41 480/525i May 19 05:50:48 720 i think May 19 05:50:55 but 480 lines May 19 05:51:00 ah May 19 05:51:03 not sure about on pal May 19 05:51:04 so standard dvd May 19 05:51:13 no May 19 05:51:17 dvd is 720x480? May 19 05:51:34 no it's over 800 May 19 05:51:40 n900 video output is less than n900 screen resolution May 19 05:51:44 480 tall i am sure May 19 05:51:46 haha May 19 05:51:46 oh May 19 05:51:52 that's kind of depressing May 19 05:52:06 but i honestly don't use my phone for watching shows on the tv anyways May 19 05:52:11 get a pandaboard May 19 05:52:21 megh.i have a popcornhour for that stuff May 19 05:52:23 there is an open source gsm stack now i heard May 19 05:52:39 "open" May 19 05:52:47 no like a guy hacked it May 19 05:53:01 hahaha.. "illegal" May 19 05:53:02 yes it is patented May 19 05:53:10 but the source is out there May 19 05:53:34 isn't that what meego is using in order to try to get the n900 going? May 19 05:53:48 the hacked gsm stack? May 19 05:53:53 dun no May 19 05:53:57 probably not May 19 05:53:58 have not tried meego May 19 05:54:02 one thing at a time May 19 05:54:07 nokia is doing their best to kind of brush off the meego project May 19 05:54:13 getting 32 bit ubuntu 11 cd now May 19 05:54:17 but then again they did the same to maemo when they were the ones running it so go figure May 19 05:54:22 get kubuntu May 19 05:54:23 kde is better May 19 05:54:26 so i can install madde in a vm May 19 05:54:30 :) May 19 05:54:45 i use sabayon with compiz+gnome May 19 05:54:52 gnome is better May 19 05:55:02 can't say i've ever tried sabayon May 19 05:55:08 my friends made it before they were corrupted by evil May 19 05:55:10 i think kde is.. but to each their own May 19 05:55:27 kde4 has become awesome. it's all i run nowadays May 19 05:55:28 gnome comes from pure ideology May 19 05:55:33 haha May 19 05:55:36 don't they all? May 19 05:55:44 kde did not May 19 05:55:55 people trying to "make a change" then people start using it and they all lose their heads and act like their shit doesn't stink? May 19 05:55:57 they were capitalists May 19 05:56:04 that's why it's better May 19 05:56:07 :) May 19 05:56:20 miguel i will admit sold out when novell went away May 19 05:56:26 nat did not sell out May 19 05:56:28 he wuit May 19 05:56:41 pfft.. selling out is only half of it May 19 05:56:49 it's more the mind set May 19 05:56:59 i don't know miguel's motives May 19 05:57:06 anyways. i still think kde is better to use May 19 05:57:08 i can not find him immoral May 19 05:57:12 it has become absolutely amazing May 19 05:57:31 something that i could actually see a windows user jumping on as though nothing has skiped a beat other than a nicer interface May 19 05:57:31 gtk is better than qt May 19 05:57:46 qt seems to adhere to more of a standard.. at least in kde it does May 19 05:57:47 i can write gtk apps May 19 05:57:51 like ok/cancel always being on the right side May 19 05:57:52 I guess I will have to make myself an own maemo phone some time May 19 05:57:52 and i'm a kernel dev May 19 05:57:56 same side i should say May 19 05:57:57 * slonopotamus yawns May 19 05:58:17 that's what i like about gtk May 19 05:58:18 lolcat: MAKE YOURSELF? May 19 05:58:22 oops May 19 05:58:31 it is friendly to kernel hackers May 19 05:58:36 I don't have a better choice if the N9 sucks May 19 05:58:46 why should i have to work hard and use c++? May 19 05:58:46 ebay an n900 May 19 05:58:50 are they that expensive? May 19 05:59:00 mine was 349 at amazon May 19 05:59:01 you said maemo device right? May 19 05:59:03 $500 now May 19 05:59:09 Macer: They cost way less than what I got back from my old phone May 19 05:59:19 probably because bt keyboards work with it May 19 05:59:29 :) May 19 05:59:31 lolcat would you be interested at all in a pandaboard? May 19 05:59:40 $170 i think May 19 05:59:43 But I want to wait till N9 is released to see May 19 05:59:45 omap 4 dual core May 19 05:59:51 1gb ram May 19 05:59:51 dangergrrl: What is a pandaboard? May 19 05:59:52 i've tried them all and nothing beats this n900+abiword+bt keyboard May 19 06:00:03 http://pandaboard.org/ May 19 06:00:04 lolcat: sounds like a good idea May 19 06:00:11 you might turn it on and it will have winmob on it May 19 06:00:24 it's a proto board for a cell phone cpu May 19 06:00:36 suitable for vehicle mounting for sure May 19 06:00:45 i thought the funniest thing i saw was the android netbook acer had.. with android mascots all over it.. and the guy in the video turns it on.. and xp starts May 19 06:00:51 1.0ghz May 19 06:00:56 you had to enable the android boot in xp :) May 19 06:00:58 Macer: I thougth all Sybian phones could support bt keyboards? May 19 06:01:00 dual core arm cortex a9 May 19 06:01:06 "cell phone suitable for vehicle mounting" - scaaary May 19 06:01:09 lolcat: they do but symbian sucks nowadays May 19 06:01:27 slonopotamus: proto board May 19 06:01:28 my n95 worked great with this su8w May 19 06:01:33 not a cell phone May 19 06:01:46 ah well.. bbl May 19 06:02:32 the n900 is as much about creating the tech you want to have as anything else May 19 06:02:46 we can do it ourselves again May 19 06:03:17 i can spend like $400 May 19 06:03:37 and donate some time which i don't know how fruitful it would be May 19 06:03:49 and i want an omap 4 handset May 19 06:03:56 100% free May 19 06:05:25 i think it should be called the phree May 19 06:05:57 * slonopotamus yawns May 19 06:06:56 better than fonesselar May 19 06:08:22 * RST38h yawns, moos May 19 06:09:01 dangergrrl: Been attempted before. Failed. May 19 06:09:28 dangergrrl: See Openmoko, Freerunner May 19 06:09:28 openmoko happened May 19 06:09:40 It failed, miserably. May 19 06:09:46 did someone lose big money? May 19 06:10:02 i thought people got what they paid for May 19 06:10:08 Dunno. All I know is that their phone could not make phone calls. May 19 06:10:42 that part has been done now May 19 06:10:51 it also lacked a major feature... a keyboard May 19 06:10:55 might be illegal to use May 19 06:10:58 And the last I heard from the last (?) user was "Don't call me, as my phone often fails receiving calls, and I use EMACS to make and answer them anyway" May 19 06:10:58 so May 19 06:11:07 So, it was a failure. May 19 06:11:09 what would it cost to make 1000 May 19 06:11:17 A lot. Costly failure. May 19 06:11:25 $400? May 19 06:11:27 * RST38h can suggest an alternative May 19 06:11:36 i bet that could be done May 19 06:11:42 Prolly something like $1500-$2000 apiece May 19 06:11:47 nowai May 19 06:11:52 imho what would be needed to actually start this is to make a slim down basic s40 type linux based device... May 19 06:11:57 that much to gear up? May 19 06:12:04 danger: it is a conservative estimate May 19 06:12:15 then use the profits from that to actually start making smartphones May 19 06:12:28 There is an easier way to do what you want May 19 06:12:34 Wouldn't it be easier to just build a new OS/firmware for an existing device? Buy up a bunch of old X units, put new firmware on them... May 19 06:12:35 how? May 19 06:12:38 Will not cost much money. Will still fail though. May 19 06:12:42 That's what prepaid companies do.. May 19 06:12:46 fu then May 19 06:13:00 dangergrrl: Do not build hw. Take a standard HTC phone or phones. May 19 06:13:03 i think it can work May 19 06:13:16 and just hack them? May 19 06:13:24 dangergrrl: Use bottom pieces from the existing Android stack. Build your own firmware. May 19 06:13:37 reverse engineering is fail May 19 06:13:45 Well, if you've got the money, it's not "hacking". You're creating OEM firmware, and you'd probably get the specs too! May 19 06:13:49 dangergrrl: reverse engineering of these devices has been mostly done May 19 06:13:53 i know from my close multiple friends experience May 19 06:13:57 And they are pretty standard almost-reference designs anyway May 19 06:14:15 Anyways,it will still fail, for non-technical reasons May 19 06:14:24 how about a china vendor May 19 06:14:29 Same. May 19 06:14:36 they make shit cheap May 19 06:14:37 The big problem is getting people to buy it May 19 06:14:37 HTC IS a china vendor. May 19 06:14:45 i want 1000 May 19 06:14:56 If you can get enough /customers/ with money, you can make it succeed May 19 06:14:57 They won't be able to make 1000 cheap May 19 06:15:01 100000 - maybe May 19 06:15:17 robbie: but you cannot. May 19 06:15:27 And that's the problem, yes. May 19 06:15:37 robbie: and no, you won't get any money from penguin worshippers, they never pay May 19 06:16:02 RST38h, wrong May 19 06:16:02 too used to getting stuff for free May 19 06:16:11 Well, I think it's more that /not many/ people have $300 disposible income. 10-20, sure, May 19 06:16:22 robbie: Common excuse. May 19 06:16:23 see the whole humble bundle things. May 19 06:16:29 robbie: "I would buy it if I had money" May 19 06:16:32 <-- had 600 eur disposable income for the n900 May 19 06:16:46 robbie: The answer is "I would give it to you for free if I had money", ok? May 19 06:16:49 ihm, how many n900s have been sold? May 19 06:16:59 many more than Nokia planned, afaik May 19 06:17:17 But then, N900 is not one of your open-source devices May 19 06:17:26 It is a normal Nokia phone, with features, support, etc May 19 06:17:27 But, erm, see the number of people who buy phones on contract. If people truely had money, they'd be better off buying it outright. But they don't. May 19 06:17:39 $300's a lot unless you can put it on credit. May 19 06:18:08 robbie: People who "buy" phones on contracts are stupid cheapskates who do not understand that the damn phone's price is included into contract May 19 06:18:17 Well, yes. May 19 06:18:20 robbie: When you are making money, $300 is nothing May 19 06:18:36 robbie: When you are not making money, credit won't save you. Simple as that. May 19 06:18:50 And near as I can tell - at least here in the US - most people live paycheck to paycheck already May 19 06:18:55 even /with/ a job. May 19 06:19:08 it seems to be a lifestyle choice if anything. May 19 06:19:15 robbie: Why does it matter to a company selling you a phone? May 19 06:19:15 300's not much, until you take out gas, food, housing, etc. May 19 06:19:23 at least from the people that i've met that live paycheque to paycheque. May 19 06:19:36 Well, it matters because because they won't have the market. May 19 06:19:53 robbie: And if they give you the phone for free, they will have the market? May 19 06:20:07 but if you're talking aboutt hose that are genuinely poor and can't afford the basics living to paycheque to paycheque, that just sucks. May 19 06:20:10 1 May 19 06:20:25 Oh, definitely. But I'm talking more about contract sort of payment scheme May 19 06:20:44 robbie: Market is where you sell something. May 19 06:20:59 robbie: If you are not selling anything, it is a handout May 19 06:21:23 robbie: And, as I have said before, contracts are still selling you the device, often for a higher price May 19 06:21:36 Erm, so if AT&T gets me into a 2-year contract with "free" phone, that's not selling me the device May 19 06:21:40 depends on the contract May 19 06:21:40 That's my point May 19 06:21:44 robbie: How come you do not have $300 for the phone, but you do have $99/mo for the contract? May 19 06:21:54 uhm May 19 06:22:04 i am disabled on social security May 19 06:22:13 Yes. They are making loads off it. I'm saying that if you can provide people an option like that -- however dumb it is -- you;ll get more interest May 19 06:22:19 \i paid $350 for my n900 May 19 06:22:26 * RST38h sighs at robbie May 19 06:22:26 my contract is only 5eur/month with 12 eur additional for 2gb/data that I can cancel at any time... May 19 06:22:41 ruskie: jealous May 19 06:22:47 ruskie: I have no contract, paying ~$10/mo for the phone and data :) May 19 06:22:47 mine is 90us/mo May 19 06:23:02 I paid 310 myself, but I'm an exception. most Android, iOS, WP7 devices are bought on contract May 19 06:23:09 RST38h, pay as you go? May 19 06:23:15 for unlimited* data and 500 daytime minutes May 19 06:23:15 ruskie: yes May 19 06:23:27 RST38h, had that... it was a bit to pricey for my needs May 19 06:23:31 but unlimited means you get modem speed after 5gb May 19 06:23:32 robbie: You are 1) US centric and 2) do not quite understand how contract stuff works May 19 06:23:37 or pre-pay to be exact... May 19 06:23:58 ruskie: There are other options here, if I want to choose them May 19 06:24:10 RST38h: That I am. US is a big market. and 2, yes I do know. I can tell you I'd never get into a contract if I had the choice. May 19 06:24:11 I pay like, $60 for 1000minutes/sms/mms/mb a month May 19 06:24:12 ruskie: Like $30/mo unlimited (actually capped) data May 19 06:24:18 But I also know how many people take the option. May 19 06:24:25 robbie: You have the choice, even in the US May 19 06:24:25 the 5eur is for pay as you go phone calls/data/minutes May 19 06:24:25 most us phones carry a subsidy if you buy a contract May 19 06:24:45 no inclusive anything May 19 06:24:48 just basic service May 19 06:24:55 the n900 i own an didn'rt need a contract May 19 06:24:56 RST38h: Only T-Mobile provides a pre-paid option with data that's not on a month-to-month basis. May 19 06:25:02 ruskie: services are relatively cheap here May 19 06:25:03 I pay ~$10 for unlimited data transfer.. May 19 06:25:08 but it is advantagous i have one May 19 06:25:16 robbie: See, you have the choice May 19 06:25:22 I pay 32€/month, includes N900, 2 simcards w/ unlimited full speed data and 3000 minutes May 19 06:25:25 FireFly|n900: I feel 1gb is enough May 19 06:25:32 Yes, and look at how poorly T-mobile's doing May 19 06:25:40 RST38h, basically I prefer a static cost month-to-month May 19 06:25:45 i have a 2 year contract for unlimited* data with slower transfer after 5gb May 19 06:25:45 Anyways, to reiterate: there is no "free" stuff. You still pay for it. May 19 06:25:48 Poorly enough that Deutch Telekom is trying to get rid of it May 19 06:25:49 I hardly ever use minutes or sms... May 19 06:25:51 lolcat, that's true May 19 06:26:01 lolcat, How do you manage? I have an average of 12Gigs a month May 19 06:26:03 And ues, RST, I've never disagreed with that. May 19 06:26:11 I can't use 500mb in a month... May 19 06:26:21 mece, it's easy if you're often near wifi May 19 06:26:21 And making a "free" hacker-friendly phone is not gonna work. May 19 06:26:21 mece: On your cellphone? Oo May 19 06:26:22 much less 2gb... May 19 06:26:23 i used 5gb is 2 days May 19 06:26:24 Never worked before. May 19 06:26:27 lolcat, yeah May 19 06:26:44 mece: I have 10/10mbit at home, I do most downloading there May 19 06:26:45 y not May 19 06:26:47 i guess May 19 06:26:50 You have got a slightly better chance modifying firmware in existing semi-researched phones May 19 06:26:52 it did work before May 19 06:27:03 danger: Freerunner failed miserably May 19 06:27:05 But if you can provide a contract or "pay off in 12 months" option at $40/month, and a pay outright option at $300, you'll have a better market I'm sure. May 19 06:27:06 did the open moko cost $1000? May 19 06:27:20 -sp May 19 06:27:21 danger: No, it cost $400 but still could not make calls out of the box May 19 06:27:30 lolcat, I have 24/1, but I use my phone a lot, and I never bother switching to wlan May 19 06:27:39 and yes, at $40 you'd make $480 on it, but hey... why not? May 19 06:27:41 danger: Which is a failure, sorry May 19 06:27:41 my n900 was 350 May 19 06:27:46 mece: I am not allowed to have wlan May 19 06:27:53 lolcat, wtf? May 19 06:28:01 It is a student housing thing May 19 06:28:05 i'm willing tho accept that level of sucess May 19 06:28:08 danger: N900 is not a free open source phone. It is a semiopen product from a large corporation, with all pluses and minuses attached May 19 06:28:18 i consider the openmoko to have suceeded May 19 06:28:26 They provide the internet, and because the majority of people is to dumb to secure a wifi network May 19 06:28:30 danger: And please, do notice where that corporation is now. Try not breath through your nose. May 19 06:28:35 openmoko wasn't free afaik May 19 06:28:49 RST38h: Freeer than android? May 19 06:29:17 google is playing games with android May 19 06:29:22 ym May 19 06:29:35 I thought we were talking about what it costs May 19 06:29:37 techincally other than the gsm chip and it's firmware... everything else could be open... don't think there are any limits anywhere... May 19 06:30:35 dangergrrl: Should we discuss why software-only non-commercial approach will not work? :) May 19 06:30:37 so why could we not have it for $400 or so May 19 06:30:45 that would hurt May 19 06:30:56 It will. May 19 06:31:06 but i could do it May 19 06:31:09 'cause we would have to use tmo as an example. May 19 06:31:29 software only i already have the n900 May 19 06:31:41 i would get a nook color for that May 19 06:31:50 Ok. You have got a Nook Color. May 19 06:31:53 What is next? May 19 06:31:54 or a pandaboard May 19 06:31:58 Yes May 19 06:32:10 meego May 19 06:32:18 Or a freaking meego. May 19 06:32:29 * ArkN900 is on nokia developer days in moscow May 19 06:32:34 It will all end up the same way. We can use CSSU as an example. May 19 06:32:44 omfg, they are talking like nothing happened May 19 06:33:01 no, use meego on the pandaboard May 19 06:33:15 port the fremantle apps i use May 19 06:33:39 there is gtk for meego May 19 06:33:43 You will have 1) 3-5 actual developers, working on this thing for free, in their spare time, at night and 2) 9000+ penguin wrshippers, flooding forums with posts about how they luuurrrrv free open-softwate, how it will save the world, oh, my phone bricked now, what do I do WHAT DO I DO??? May 19 06:34:04 RST38h hah :) May 19 06:34:18 well, juri would be one May 19 06:34:37 and she counts for three May 19 06:34:52 3-5? May 19 06:35:00 Arkn900: Hehe :) May 19 06:35:02 sounds like i would actually have to code May 19 06:35:04 yuk May 19 06:35:13 RST38h, CSSU is ended? May 19 06:35:28 danger: "I would love to help, if I could code, but I do not know C or C++ or anything about coding!" May 19 06:35:37 danger: (dozens of these posts on tmo) May 19 06:35:47 GAN: No, it has not May 19 06:35:48 RST38h: i can teach them that May 19 06:35:52 GAN: Not so far anyway May 19 06:35:55 i am past coding prime May 19 06:36:00 danger: For free? In your spare time? May 19 06:36:12 yes i would teach for free May 19 06:36:24 danger: Good luck :) May 19 06:36:26 i am an anarchist May 19 06:36:38 dangergrrl: me too May 19 06:36:53 how could i teach other than for free? May 19 06:37:31 MohammadAG: do you think we could put together a cortexa9 handheld? May 19 06:37:57 i can teach May 19 06:38:14 mhm May 19 06:38:27 no actually i can teach a lot May 19 06:38:59 do you understand multicomputing? May 19 06:39:19 MohammadAG: With dual-core, 1gb ram, 64gb rom, 4g and a qwerty keyboard and based on debian? May 19 06:39:27 What is maemo anyways? A gui? May 19 06:39:45 and middleware May 19 06:39:50 and the rather broken init ideas May 19 06:39:53 to me it looks like debian with maemo stuff instead of gnome May 19 06:39:56 and the broken filesystem layout May 19 06:40:09 would be nice if it was debian with just a ui layer May 19 06:40:14 sadly it's not May 19 06:40:16 ruskie: Why didn't they just mount it all at / May 19 06:40:26 because on chip storage costs May 19 06:40:32 we could do our own gnome based deal May 19 06:40:36 ruskie: That is what I am thinking, what exactly does maemo do? May 19 06:40:41 teach someone who doesn't know coding how to program a custom handheld device? good luck... May 19 06:40:45 That is good for the user May 19 06:40:52 (sounds like years of work) May 19 06:41:02 yea, a bit farfetched May 19 06:41:16 The maemo window manager is that complicated? May 19 06:41:18 joga someone taught me to design operating systems when i only wanted to play games May 19 06:41:45 have you designed any? May 19 06:41:49 yes May 19 06:41:53 make a minimal s40 style device that you can sell to joe average and that doesn't actually need to be a smart phone... sell those first... fund your venture from that... then make a proper smartphone based on the same prinicple May 19 06:41:54 url? May 19 06:42:24 ruskie: why not start with car tires? =) May 19 06:42:31 actually the only real code project i am involved with is oskit May 19 06:42:31 hehe May 19 06:43:02 and i hope we can get something that will boot on n900 May 19 06:43:09 RST38h, doesn't really matter with what you start as long as it's something that will ensure you keep getting money down the line for your other r&d projects May 19 06:43:16 \that would be nifty May 19 06:43:30 dangergrrl: ... May 19 06:43:46 if you have oskit you have janos May 19 06:44:16 Could we run debian on the N900? May 19 06:44:17 although i don't like java it was interesting research May 19 06:44:38 lolcat: a partial yes for sure May 19 06:44:39 ruskie: Ok, next question: why not *stop* at car tires? May 19 06:44:52 what May 19 06:45:00 RST38h, that's philosophy ;) May 19 06:45:03 RST38h: We need a great phone May 19 06:45:06 i have a vision for what an os should look like May 19 06:45:14 hi May 19 06:45:17 i exist May 19 06:45:24 what is my function May 19 06:45:36 what resources do i need May 19 06:46:01 ruskie: no, it is business May 19 06:46:11 I also have a vision: "Hey, thanks for turning me on" May 19 06:46:15 visions are penny a dozen May 19 06:46:23 i don't care about business May 19 06:46:53 RST38h, it's philosophy because it depends what drives you... is it... I want to make tires... or I want to make interesting products but I need starting capital May 19 06:47:07 i care only for the economy of ideas May 19 06:47:21 ruskie: I want to make money. This is what drives business :) May 19 06:47:46 money is of little use May 19 06:48:06 very usable and versatile, from where I am May 19 06:48:07 it does not amplify consciousness May 19 06:48:28 dangergrrl: If you mean drugs, drugs also cost money. May 19 06:48:30 dangergrrl, instead of a geeky handset...why not concentrate effort on something like global village construction set or similar enabling technologies May 19 06:48:43 RST38h, then you stop at making tires... May 19 06:49:06 we don't need technologies May 19 06:49:11 uh what? May 19 06:49:17 we need ideaologies May 19 06:49:42 No shit, too many people, have to kill off another few billions. May 19 06:49:56 we have plenty of resources May 19 06:49:56 Can't effectively do that without ideologies driving the extermination May 19 06:50:22 america is not broke May 19 06:50:49 and the sky is green. May 19 06:50:53 the koch brothers are certainly not broke May 19 06:50:57 dangergrrl: How much money do you have per capita? I mean the goverment May 19 06:51:13 i have my pension May 19 06:51:42 general electric pays no taxes May 19 06:51:53 The goverment has $120 000 with my name on it May 19 06:52:07 And will continue paying no taxes long after your pension stops due to lack of funds May 19 06:52:07 And another $120k for each and every one of our inhabitants May 19 06:52:12 * RST38h cackles May 19 06:52:55 dangergrrl, anyway, my point just was that if you're a visionary that doesn't care about money, wouldn't there be something more fulfilling than designing an internet device? May 19 06:52:57 None of this makes any difference or has any meaning from where you stand May 19 06:53:30 Obama can be soaring above the WH on an inflatable pink elephant, and it STILL won't affect you in any meaningful way May 19 06:54:06 dangergrrl: Shouldn't we get back to the ground though? May 19 06:54:28 dangergrrl: You are saying that you would like to make a true open-source hackable free mobile platform, right? May 19 06:54:42 and ponies May 19 06:56:43 RST38h: Why is that implausible? May 19 06:56:44 haha, they removed "ovi messaging" im client from s3 and now they are bringing it back in anna and trying to picture that as big step fowrard. *pathetic* May 19 06:57:41 What is Anna? May 19 06:58:06 Arkanoid: Admit you only came there to troll +) May 19 07:02:23 haha May 19 07:02:40 rst38h, i never made a secret of it :) May 19 07:05:10 hm.. is there a good protector for the n900? May 19 07:05:26 something like a body glove that lets the qwerty slide out? May 19 07:06:04 google dont fail me now May 19 07:06:17 One thing I was wondering about May 19 07:06:23 IS meego linux? May 19 07:06:32 If so can we just export the meego drivers, caller, and such May 19 07:06:33 lolcat, yes it is May 19 07:06:39 put it in maemo and run it? May 19 07:06:41 a more recent kernel though May 19 07:07:03 Or take the maemo gui export it and put it ontop of meego? May 19 07:07:07 is meego debian? May 19 07:07:41 fedora isn't it? May 19 07:07:41 no May 19 07:07:58 :) May 19 07:08:05 solar charger for n900 hahahahaha May 19 07:08:31 http://nokia-n900.com/store/category/solar-chargers/ May 19 07:08:49 ruskie: OpenSuse May 19 07:09:47 Macer, cheap May 19 07:10:24 yeah May 19 07:10:32 ruskie: this site cant be for real May 19 07:10:41 teloscopic attachment for an n900? May 19 07:10:43 :) May 19 07:10:46 tele May 19 07:10:53 no thanks May 19 07:11:14 http://nokia-n900.com/store/universal-tripod-8x-zoom-module-free-shipping-1052/ May 19 07:11:25 cmon ruskie... back to the soviet days :) May 19 07:11:26 The MeeGo Core operating system is a Linux distribution, drawing on Nokia’s Debian-based Maemo and Intel’s Fedora-based Moblin.[23] MeeGo is one of the first Linux distributions to use the Btrfs file system as default, and uses RPM repositories. May 19 07:11:34 And it uses openSuse package manager May 19 07:11:36 what a mess May 19 07:11:46 this place is in eu tho May 19 07:11:54 i doubt they ship to the US May 19 07:12:27 ah! this is what i need May 19 07:12:27 hahaha original n900 stylus/pen May 19 07:12:34 Even though MeeGo was initiated as collaboration between Nokia and Intel, the collaboration was formed when Nokia was already developing the next incarnation of its Maemo Linux distribution. As a result, the Maemo 6 base operating system will be kept intact while the Handset UX will be shared, with the name changed to “MeeGo/Harmattan”.[8] May 19 07:12:45 http://nokia-n900.com/store/siliconerubber-case-for-n900-free-shipping-1021_/ May 19 07:12:48 RST38h: yes i would like to help with that May 19 07:12:51 Will it have a newer debian? May 19 07:13:04 that will protect it well.. i had one of those for my n800 May 19 07:13:15 it protected it from a few bad falls May 19 07:14:03 Is MeeGo/Harmattan still debian? May 19 07:14:05 A dummy phone resembling the Nokia N900, purely for display, at a store, for example. Comes with FREE SHIPPING <-- I wouldn't mind having one of these in my pocket May 19 07:14:13 if someone tries mugging me or something... May 19 07:14:26 ruskie: Was it expencive? May 19 07:16:23 dangergrrl: Perfect. Would you like to use Linux as a base or write your own kernel? May 19 07:16:34 ruskie :) May 19 07:17:11 i dont see why someone would have one of those unless there is a huge demand for a discontinued phone May 19 07:17:31 like if it could project a holographic sex slave or something May 19 07:17:54 then they would be on ebay for $10,000,000 May 19 07:18:32 oh. it says we deliver to everywhere heh May 19 07:18:38 must be located in china May 19 07:19:17 portugal.. wow May 19 07:19:18 Macer, portugal and south africa ;) May 19 07:19:42 yah. the south africa one was a little concerning May 19 07:20:01 maybe when the english were running things i would buy something from there May 19 07:21:02 i am no longer ambitious or energetic enough to write my own kernel but i would like oskit to run on it May 19 07:21:15 wtf.... May 19 07:21:25 linux is kindof bloaty these days for what it is used for in some cases May 19 07:21:30 http://www.amazon.com/BoxWave-Nokia-N900-Armor-Case/dp/B003CJ4ZFM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1305789435&sr=8-3 May 19 07:21:51 for those days where you have nationa. security secrets on your n900 May 19 07:22:07 you have holographic sex slaves? May 19 07:22:11 dangergrrl: i'd like to experiment to trim down the current linux kernel by configuration only May 19 07:22:24 can they cuddle? May 19 07:23:02 dangergrrl: yeah... it's an ap in -testing May 19 07:23:18 how freaky do i have to be about water anyhow? May 19 07:23:47 it doesnt look like that armor case lets the qwerty come out May 19 07:23:51 wow this armor case is awesome May 19 07:24:01 forget about the sex, i can cuddle my n900? May 19 07:24:11 lol May 19 07:24:47 dangergrrl: Ok. So, Linux kernel. May 19 07:24:51 i just need more stuffies :P May 19 07:25:26 dangergrrl: I suggest you take a generic Linux distro, like Ubuntu, and write your mobile platform in it. May 19 07:25:44 dangergrrl: If you want to do mobile from the start, take a pandaboard or something, it has got Linux May 19 07:25:48 RST38h: Why not debian? May 19 07:26:03 dangergrrl: YOu only need to implement or put together the middleware, and trhe basic apps. May 19 07:26:26 dangergrrl: As you already know what is required, and willing to teach other people about it, it should be a fun little project May 19 07:26:40 ok. i need to stop looking at n900 accessories before i go broke May 19 07:26:42 :) May 19 07:26:46 middleware = dbus looks like a nice thing .. frontend = emacs :) May 19 07:26:50 All tools are already there for you - Linux, X11, SDL, Gtk+, Qt May 19 07:26:59 i need a new qwerty pad for it.. mine is worn May 19 07:27:11 cehteh: Why have dbus when you can run all apps inside emacs, implementing them in LISP? :) May 19 07:27:14 the space bar has this huge white spot on it May 19 07:27:25 RST38h: elisp is so damn slow May 19 07:27:35 cehteh: Never stopped real adepts May 19 07:27:36 it will be a battery eater and lag-o-matic May 19 07:27:53 cehteh: I mean, people tried implementing whole software stacks in Java! May 19 07:28:00 could someone write an awesome JIT compiler for elisp please? May 19 07:28:01 Why not eLISP then... May 19 07:28:33 (or take the emacs concept to lua and use lua instead) May 19 07:31:36 cehteh: JavaScript. May 19 07:31:57 maybe that too .. js and lua are similar in some parts May 19 07:31:59 Isn't it logical, with QtQuick, web runtime, and all? May 19 07:32:04 just having a working design does not make a handheld May 19 07:32:17 dangergrrl: Make a working design first. May 19 07:32:21 (and decent js jit compilers learned a lot from luajit) May 19 07:32:33 dangergrrl: Then make it work on a hacked HTC for example May 19 07:32:44 dangergrrl: Highly anarchically May 19 07:32:47 well you need a good stack of libraries in js .. is there such? May 19 07:33:02 i'm wanting to protype with the pandaboard on my motorcycle for augmented reality May 19 07:33:17 dangergrrl: Once it works, you may try approaching some smaller Chinese phone manufacturer (ZTE?) asking for a batch of their Android phones, sans the firmware May 19 07:33:26 i don't need that to be handheld May 19 07:34:01 Ok, here goes the great idea of creating a truly free open source mobile platform. May 19 07:34:03 but if what makes a cool augmented reaslity system for me also is the basis for an awesome handheld that would be nice May 19 07:34:50 pandaboard is free and mountable but not handheld May 19 07:34:59 it fits my needs for the bike May 19 07:35:20 * RST38h sighs: this whole recurring "I want to make a mobile platform but have better things to do" story starts reminding him of the guy trying to hump hamsters May 19 07:36:32 dangergrrl: http://www.concept-phones.com/ :) May 19 07:37:25 dangergrrl, we can, but whether or not it can go into production is something else May 19 07:37:58 which reminds me, someone has or has tried openpandora? May 19 07:38:50 when I think of unfortunate delays in production I think of that...it took them so long to actually get it manufactured because of all sorts of problems with their suppliers that it wasn't as cutting edge after release May 19 07:39:24 but I haven't seen the device, had it not seemed like there are problems in getting it to market I might have ordered one earlier May 19 07:39:38 * MohammadAG rephrases that May 19 07:39:47 yay for 16MP cameras on a 2mm sensor... May 19 07:39:48 whether it's a big failure or not is something else :p May 19 07:39:55 joga: Pupnik has ordered one May 19 07:39:56 :) May 19 07:39:56 that sure as hell is realistic May 19 07:40:28 joga: ask him when he is online May 19 07:40:35 RST38h, do you know if he has got it? ;) May 19 07:42:03 Is the N9 only for devs? May 19 07:42:28 My nokia developer application was not accepted, they asked what kind of developing I was doing... May 19 07:42:43 I thought you said you were a contractor May 19 07:43:32 joga: No idea. After a while, it stopped mattering, didn't it? May 19 07:49:43 1 May 19 07:51:58 MohammadAG: I thougth you said you didn't belive me May 19 07:52:13 Besides I am not a software contractor May 19 08:26:32 morning May 19 08:26:41 is there a recent build of chromium for maemo available somewhere? May 19 08:26:51 i currently have chromium 6 from some external repo May 19 08:27:33 how is it? May 19 08:28:09 it's working ok, but i need a newer version for the websocket app im working on May 19 08:28:18 i didnt even know they still had it for maemo.. thought there was some lic problem May 19 08:28:54 yea, i dont understand why they cant leave out the proprietary part May 19 08:30:03 i am looking for it now to try it out May 19 08:30:39 maybe try this example websocket site if you like: http://hwios.org/ May 19 08:30:57 works only in chromium/chrome with .76 hixie websocket protocol May 19 08:31:20 hm, how is qt on maemo May 19 08:31:21 ? May 19 08:31:27 It is really cute May 19 08:31:47 * lolcat goes to make paraqt May 19 08:32:02 i could hear the punchline drums after that one lolcat May 19 08:32:05 does it replace some parts of gtk? May 19 08:32:17 in maemo that is May 19 08:32:27 Macer: First or last? May 19 08:32:44 phrearch, perhaps jacekowski might build a newer one? May 19 08:33:12 mece: havent read anything after the initial release. is he around here sometimes? May 19 08:33:32 would be nice to have a running chromium 11 May 19 08:33:34 ~seen jacekowski May 19 08:33:43 jacekowski is currently on #maemo. Has said a total of 8 messages. Is idling for 14h 54m 8s, last said: 'i've heard something about microsoft buying nokia'. May 19 08:33:46 haha he's online :D May 19 08:33:51 aha ok :) May 19 08:33:52 Morning, all May 19 08:34:02 Jaffa, \o May 19 08:34:16 yea that would be awesome. building a project like chromium is quite a task. i wouldnt know where to start actually May 19 08:36:08 it doesnt go faster than microb does it? May 19 08:36:17 the thread says it goes just as slow May 19 08:36:27 the syncing might be nice to have though May 19 08:37:17 its not very fast no May 19 08:37:30 but better than gecko based browsers imo May 19 08:38:01 that v8 engine seems to be very fast May 19 08:38:13 well... it is wk right? May 19 08:38:19 isn't tear as well? May 19 08:38:35 yea webkit + v8 i think May 19 08:38:55 i think webkit has its own js engine normally? May 19 08:39:18 i dont know.. i can honestly say i havent run into many gripes with microb to look May 19 08:39:25 But Opera's the only one with HW accel for drawing images(I'm pretty sure) May 19 08:39:37 i usually just use opera for the quick stuff May 19 08:39:58 and microb for mostly everything May 19 08:40:36 fennec is absolutely horrible May 19 08:40:39 hm, is maemo-qt something i can install over the default maemo? May 19 08:41:09 Macer: same May 19 08:42:55 why isnt opera rotating? May 19 08:43:26 alterego: was columbus your little Qt-toy? May 19 08:44:03 phrearch: maemo-qt is a framework not an operatingsystem May 19 08:44:12 oh nm May 19 08:44:26 cssu has some global screen lock thing May 19 08:44:54 chem|st: yes May 19 08:44:56 phrearch: you should not be forced to install it by hand as it should get pulled in by dependencies May 19 08:44:56 chem|st: aha ok. i thought it was a seperate distribution of maemo May 19 08:45:38 alterego: do you get the fullscreen button right in the middle after startup too? May 19 08:48:56 chem|st: yeah, known issue that's fixed in my master code but nt distributed. May 19 08:53:03 * ArkN900 trolled about ovi maps a bit May 19 08:53:26 hm May 19 08:53:27 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=73149 May 19 08:53:41 so, maemo == meego ? May 19 08:54:01 since when? May 19 08:54:23 ow ok, i thought i read it was a rename of maemo May 19 08:54:39 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44664 May 19 08:55:20 Arkanoid: Are they now Ovi Services Maps? May 19 08:55:27 wait, no, Nokia Services Maps May 19 08:55:33 i managed to get meego running on an external sd-card a while ago, but it didnt run very well May 19 08:56:12 what class was the card May 19 08:56:41 i think class 4 May 19 08:57:03 6 minimal to get even remotely usable performance May 19 08:57:32 aha ok. the part on which maemo runs, is quite faster then i suppose May 19 08:57:49 of course May 19 08:58:17 morning chaps May 19 08:58:41 damn this maemo syncing with google is great May 19 08:59:01 now if only abiword and gnumeric synced with google docs May 19 08:59:03 :) May 19 08:59:17 I would prefer decent syncml support... but that would require a good standalone accept everything syncml server May 19 08:59:48 im happy enough with my google calendar syncing \o/ May 19 08:59:59 i' happy i got the calendar going May 19 09:00:01 nid0: what do you use for that? May 19 09:00:02 hahahaha May 19 09:00:14 lardman|home: erminig May 19 09:00:17 nid0: ;) yeah i was messing with that for a while May 19 09:00:29 hmm, has it been updated as last time I tried it wasn't interested? May 19 09:00:50 i just used mail for exchange to sync May 19 09:00:53 not for a while afaik, i've been using it for at least 8-10 months or so without problems May 19 09:01:33 too bad i couldnt get mail for exchange to send emails May 19 09:01:47 i still have to use imap and turn email syncing off May 19 09:02:07 * nid0 curses maemo's imap implementation May 19 09:02:23 but the contacts and the calendar is working like a champ May 19 09:02:39 nid0: never had a problem with it afa google goes May 19 09:03:00 my major issues with it are lack of imap-idle and no local folder subscriptions May 19 09:03:12 my problem is i have a g2 as well so it is nice to just have to add contacts once May 19 09:03:26 I'll have to take another look at it May 19 09:04:01 I still have to end up using my e90 + profimail when I need proper mobile mail May 19 09:04:17 why not just copy them to a local folder? May 19 09:04:53 copy what? May 19 09:04:57 or cant you force modest to cache everything? May 19 09:05:26 oh. guess not May 19 09:05:33 * > modest > outlook* May 19 09:05:40 hahaaha May 19 09:05:42 kinda how I would rank modest May 19 09:05:50 modest isnt too bad May 19 09:05:52 tbh, OE / WLM >>>> modest May 19 09:05:53 and that includes plain telnet access May 19 09:06:10 lmao! May 19 09:06:21 oe ftw! May 19 09:06:29 kmail :-P May 19 09:06:40 * Macer hides under a rock May 19 09:11:56 * chem|st shrugs May 19 09:12:32 ~ May 19 09:13:06 do I understand something wrong or why the hell should it help a $user to have a more secure device by generating id_rsa keys by default (on the same device)... May 19 09:13:30 "Intel, speaking out of turn and damaging its intimate relationship with Microsoft, has revealed that legacy x86-compiled software will not work on the ARM version of Windows 8." May 19 09:13:40 Cpt Obvious! May 19 09:13:52 :D May 19 09:14:22 thats just like my ssh discussion on #meego yesterday... May 19 09:15:06 how should x86 compiled stuff run on a not x86 architecture? May 19 09:15:26 I mean without wrapper or emu May 19 09:15:39 well May 19 09:15:51 then you have some people saying that hey, it's INTEL saying that, who knows what microsoft has in their pockets! May 19 09:16:07 chem: Obviously, ARM should just add x86 instruction set! May 19 09:16:22 simply run the software through a translator and you're done. May 19 09:16:23 RST38h: true May 19 09:16:38 flux: Microsoft can't have in its pockets more than technologically possible May 19 09:16:50 but as long as there isn't there wont May 19 09:16:52 rst38h, simply integrate qemu! May 19 09:16:58 And no, flux, it is not "simply running software through a translator" May 19 09:17:08 another interesting thing is that intel is catching up in the power consumption by having a better process May 19 09:17:13 flux: What would be performance of qemu, emulating x86 on an ARM? May 19 09:17:21 I just cannot see how the ARM camp cannot reach that as well, by using a better process May 19 09:17:30 bad idea May 19 09:17:59 chem: Is Cyrix still around? They should have an x86 license =) May 19 09:18:02 rst38h, there are real attempts on emulating other cpus. was it HP's Dynamo or something, that actually could have better performance on running x86 on x86 than natively.. May 19 09:18:50 does qemu make use of advanced techniques, such as JIT? May 19 09:19:18 RST38h: guess they died as all others May 19 09:20:49 National Semiconductor tried some stuff on the remains May 19 09:22:43 licenses were given to china and peking by AMD (x86 Cyrix) May 19 09:23:06 RST38h: so no they aren't around anymore May 19 09:23:55 I had a Cx486DX, DX2 and a DX4 btw May 19 09:24:14 oh and the SLC... May 19 09:24:26 chem: hey that x86 license should still be owned by someone May 19 09:24:45 the first system was about 9k€ May 19 09:24:48 RST38h: AMD May 19 09:24:57 chem: 1) ARM buys the x86 license with the owner company 2) ARM adds x86 instruction set 3) 4) PROFIT! May 19 09:25:04 chem: AMD has its own license May 19 09:25:34 and they have the Cx one, that is how they could licence it to asia May 19 09:25:37 chem: Cyrix's license is owned by VIA May 19 09:25:51 chem: AMD owns its own license May 19 09:27:23 On the other hand, why would anyone NEED an x86-compatible CPU, other than for running MS Windows and MS Office? And Microsoft is porting both to ARM. May 19 09:27:33 RST38h: where did you get that... all I read is that cyrix was VIA later on May 19 09:27:51 RST38h: You've got that right. May 19 09:28:20 RST38h: Actually, the /only/ thing is MS Windows Games, and other "legacy" software May 19 09:28:49 "legacy"^^ May 19 09:29:12 Well, if it won't run on Windows ARM, so it's "legacy". May 19 09:29:19 And if it will, we can use Wine. May 19 09:29:31 ? May 19 09:29:33 chem: Wiki May 19 09:29:45 RST38h: nvm May 19 09:59:38 hmm, those TMO threads about the n950 are hard work May 19 10:01:24 lardman|home, but fin tiems! May 19 10:01:31 s/fin/fun/ May 19 10:01:31 mece meant: lardman|home, but fun tiems! May 19 10:01:41 mece: absolutely I'm excited May 19 10:02:01 like waiting for Christmas as a kid and all that :) May 19 10:02:52 lardman|home: I hope it is dual core May 19 10:04:54 Hola May 19 10:05:09 dr0id: :SSSS May 19 10:05:17 Hey lolcat May 19 10:05:57 Why not maem0? May 19 10:06:35 one month to go... excited but I guess I won't buy one as it is a cap. screen May 19 10:06:36 dr0id, you want the kb? May 19 10:06:52 ? May 19 10:06:59 I really don't understand wuts goin on May 19 10:07:04 haha May 19 10:07:07 you asked me to come here, I came here May 19 10:07:13 I wouldn't thouch it unless it were hepta core. May 19 10:07:20 I didn't ask you to come here May 19 10:07:32 I told everyone in ##php to join #maemo if they fancied a free kickban :) May 19 10:07:41 LOL May 19 10:07:57 ok, I invite you all to ##php-lance and #freelance , if you all don't want a free kickban May 19 10:08:13 spamming other channels, I think that's a valid excuse. May 19 10:08:23 hehe :P May 19 10:09:14 lolcat: dual core would be good, but really a bigger screen + e-compass (I hope) would do May 19 10:09:20 hey crashanddie May 19 10:09:23 e-compass? May 19 10:09:27 hey lardman May 19 10:09:28 the screen is big enough May 19 10:09:40 lolcat: bigger than N900 I mean May 19 10:09:53 crashanddie: how's things? May 19 10:11:00 Not too bad May 19 10:11:06 Living in the south of France, nice little job May 19 10:11:19 Living with the gf, all that May 19 10:11:57 you lardman|home? May 19 10:12:00 crashanddie: where are you at then? thought you where somewhere more northern May 19 10:12:17 chem|st, Perpignan, 40km from the Spanish border. May 19 10:12:41 Northern enough for you? :P May 19 10:13:36 hehe I know perpignan, actualy to far north, I prefer gijon +-40km May 19 10:14:22 Gijn is actually further north than Perpignan. May 19 10:15:24 why do they use "offshore" for "outsourcing" May 19 10:15:50 crashanddie: is it o_O May 19 10:15:52 ;) May 19 10:16:08 chem|st, yeah, Gijn is actually about 150km or so north May 19 10:16:12 ah sure perpignan is on the southest end of france May 19 10:16:20 It's on the same level as Montpellier May 19 10:17:21 crashanddie: yeah May 19 10:17:37 crashanddie: good, expecting in mid August May 19 10:17:47 Oh really? Didn't know about that May 19 10:17:51 Congrats to both of you May 19 10:18:18 about the same lat as pamplona^^ May 19 10:18:19 She must be a big bubbling blob of hormones by now. May 19 10:18:24 Work has been hectic since the start of the year (i.e. 3months when you can tell people) so I've not had much of a chance to chat to anyone May 19 10:18:34 thanks :) May 19 10:18:55 she's not bad actually, stops work in a couple of weeks which is making her happy :) May 19 10:19:02 heh May 19 10:19:15 and we're moving house in a couple of weeks too, which will make both of us happy - more space May 19 10:19:36 Your back however, isn't going to be happy May 19 10:20:38 crashanddie: been there about 10 years ago or so ;) May 19 10:21:22 lardman|home: the best of luck to you, gonna need it... May 19 10:21:27 ;) May 19 10:21:36 crashanddie: true, though I may just get some people in to move it - washing machine + sofabed down two flights of stairs doesn't sound fun May 19 10:21:49 thanks chem|st, I didn't think house moving was that bad ;) May 19 10:22:08 moving twice is like once burned down May 19 10:22:11 lardman|home, did you get her the nerdy t-shirts? "Baby loading 75%" or "Gestation in progress. Stand clear" May 19 10:23:00 Or for her last day at work "Do not argue with me. I am pregnant. And I own a chainsaw." May 19 10:23:08 lol May 19 10:23:38 Or my personal favourite "No bellyrubbing. This is a basketball shoplifting operation" May 19 10:23:58 I like the "production site, keep clear" one ;) May 19 10:24:20 :) May 19 10:24:35 lmc if I find that May 19 10:24:49 chem|st: ¿asturiano? ;) May 19 10:24:53 http://www.cafepress.com/evilgeniusstore/7233146 May 19 10:25:52 gomiam, no, ell s allemaney. May 19 10:27:07 crashanddie: interesting. I wouldn't expect a German to like one of the most rainy areas in Spain. They usually want sun, sun, sun! May 19 10:28:09 and white socks, on scarlet-red skin. May 19 10:28:56 It's funny the british hate "ze ghermans" so much -- they dress identically when they go on holiday. May 19 10:29:15 We don't hate the Germans May 19 10:29:41 We certainly like their cars! May 19 10:29:42 Well, maybe not you, but you're pregnant, so you love everything, including ponies, unicorns and rainbows. May 19 10:29:52 ah, ponies May 19 10:30:09 well I do speak German too and have lived there, so that might help May 19 10:30:15 yeah May 19 10:30:30 what's a German pony then? Pferdchen? May 19 10:30:40 :) May 19 10:31:48 Haha May 19 10:31:53 Probably just pony May 19 10:32:21 gomiam: não, eu não sou asturiano May 19 10:32:59 It's getting to be such a long time since I've actually spoken German day to day that after I wrote that I had a terrible thought that perhaps Pferd was something else and I was misremembering May 19 10:33:10 that sounds like portuguese May 19 10:33:12 chem|st: no need to write in Portuguese... unless you are. In any case, feel free to keep doing it :D May 19 10:33:52 certamente May 19 10:34:20 crashanddie: Pony, Eselsbrücke, Bläschen or Spickzettel May 19 10:34:52 actualy I do not realy speak either language properly so I stay with english for now, ok? May 19 10:35:14 chem|st: good enough for me :) May 19 10:35:19 gomiam, except Blaschen is "glass", and "spickzettel" is something related to writing stuff on your hands May 19 10:35:27 So Google Translate fail. May 19 10:35:29 gomiam: Eselsbrcke, that is odd - that translates as cribbing May 19 10:35:29 crashanddie: blame Google Translate XD May 19 10:35:41 lol May 19 10:35:57 http://dict.leo.org/ is a better bet May 19 10:36:41 http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lang=de&searchLoc=0&cmpType=relaxed§Hdr=on&spellToler=&search=pony May 19 10:36:46 I wonder what a Pony Mixer is? May 19 10:36:56 something used in the manufacture of glue perhaps.... May 19 10:37:07 lardman|home, actually, I definitely remember the eselsbrucke as being some kind of pun May 19 10:37:21 lardman|home, because donkeys are scared of water, they'd never cross a bridge, or something like that? May 19 10:37:31 lardman|home: http://www.compliancesigns.com/media/NH/NHE-13092_150.gif put that on a shirt... May 19 10:37:42 It's a rhyme or something like that to remember something or a mnemonic iirc May 19 10:38:12 chem|st: :) May 19 10:38:30 crashanddie: I remember learning it in class at some point though, but not the reasoning anymore May 19 10:39:29 "Esel sind sehr wasserscheu und weigern sich beharrlich, auch kleinste Wasserlufe zu durchwaten, auch wenn sie diese physisch leicht bewltigen knnten (sturer Esel), denn ein Esel kann durch die spiegelnde Wasseroberflche nicht erkennen, wie tief der Bach ist. Daher baute man ihnen in Furten kleine Brcken, die sogenannten Eselsbrcken. May 19 10:39:29 Analog dazu ist eine sprichwrtliche Eselsbrcke ein Umweg oder besonderer Aufwand, der dennoch schneller oder berhaupt erst zum Ziel fhrt. May 19 10:39:29 Auerdem geht ein Esel nicht ber jede Brcke, denn er setzt seinen Huf nur auf jenen Untergrund, der ihm vllig geheuer erscheint. Er berquert nur eine Brcke, die ihm Sicherheit bietet. Somit steht die Eselsbrcke auch fr die Sicherheit." May 19 10:39:34 Bloody germans. May 19 10:39:42 anyone know whether a kernel tarball contains somewhere the version number? May 19 10:40:24 crashanddie: thanks May 19 10:40:55 ah, in the main Makefile fwiw May 19 10:41:16 anyway, going for lunch May 19 10:41:21 enjoy May 19 10:41:22 All people seem to need Data processing... May 19 10:41:48 missing layer 8 in this pony... May 19 10:45:37 mece: i'm always online May 19 10:46:02 and opera is a lot better May 19 10:58:55 Barbara Streisand hits again... the N9 teaser is now uploaded to youtube and other services all over the place after Nokia had the initial one removed... May 19 11:00:29 :/ May 19 11:01:52 and that wasn't exactly what they were after? May 19 11:18:50 there is a "several times" missing in my streisand comment May 19 11:22:17 lcuk: ping? May 19 11:24:06 hey BCMM May 19 11:24:12 moo lcuk May 19 11:24:12 hello May 19 11:24:22 hiya RST38h \o May 19 11:24:35 lcuk: last night you said you fixed your USB port with a bit of card; would you mind elaborating? May 19 11:25:08 He probably just wedged it into the slot to press it to the board. May 19 11:25:09 Oh May 19 11:25:13 There he is. May 19 11:25:47 i figured it was something like that, but i'd appreciate any advice on technique May 19 11:26:10 The USB connector can fail in many ways. May 19 11:26:21 mine is slightly rotated May 19 11:26:25 It's not going to be one technique for all. May 19 11:27:01 but there is still some semblance of a connection, since plugging it in to a PC gets an orange flashing light and plenty of worrying dmesg on the PC May 19 11:27:28 i know this is a stupid question, but which side is connected to the board? May 19 11:27:56 there's one general rule: fix early, fix properly May 19 11:27:58 If I was trying a last ditch effort to get data off, I'd clamp the USB lead in something, and then press the n900 onto this, with the force exerted to clamp it onto the board, while remaining parallel. May 19 11:28:20 BCMM, http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-04-22.log.html#t2011-04-22T17:15:17 May 19 11:28:33 DocScrutinizer: i was thinking nokia could fix it properly for me. i just want my photos off it before they wipe it May 19 11:28:49 BCMM, charge battery, use ssh May 19 11:28:55 Often it's not possible to fix USB properly - the pads have been ripped off. May 19 11:28:56 BCMM: or uSD May 19 11:29:05 lcuk: thanks May 19 11:29:23 lcuk, DocScrutinizer: empty battery, no external charger. May 19 11:29:37 I assume you have no random resistors around? May 19 11:29:38 the objective is to put some energy in May 19 11:29:45 i have some random resistors, why? May 19 11:29:54 best chance to get a new battery, and ask in shop to charge it for you May 19 11:30:06 SpeedEvil: are you proposing building a charger? May 19 11:30:27 If you find a suitable one - say 3-20 ohms - you can take a USB lead, cut it in half, use it as a power source, and directly charge the battery from that May 19 11:30:31 DocScrutinizer: oh, you mean buy a spare battery, and buy it charged? May 19 11:30:57 SpeedEvil: best "random resistor" is the one internal to Nokia chargers with 3.5mm barrel connector May 19 11:31:09 yeah May 19 11:31:39 BCMM: yes May 19 11:32:08 DocScrutinizer: that's a pretty good idea; a spare would be useful anyway May 19 11:32:29 is it normal for a shop to charge a battery for you? May 19 11:32:42 Some will test batteries for you. May 19 11:32:53 how would a spare battery for a broken phone be useful? =) May 19 11:32:58 How much data do you need to move off? May 19 11:33:04 actually, i wonder if those unlocking shop-type places would just charge my battery for a couple of quid May 19 11:33:05 not really, but they will do if you by a rather expensive thing, no? May 19 11:33:13 SpeedEvil: a couple gig i think May 19 11:33:20 s/ by / buy / May 19 11:33:21 DocScrutinizer meant: not really, but they will do if you buy a rather expensive thing, no? May 19 11:33:52 SpeedEvil: it'll use energy nicely, but i reckon it can be done over wifi on a single charge May 19 11:33:54 BCMM: So I guess you need most of an hours life on ssh - so maybe a third to a half full. May 19 11:34:44 new batteries come charged to 40%..70% usually May 19 11:34:57 what do you reckon uses more power: faster transfer with rsync -z, or less CPU work without -z? May 19 11:35:05 SpeedEvil: yeah, taht's about right May 19 11:35:09 Where are you BCMM? Post it to me and I'll charge it for you May 19 11:35:15 lardman|home: UK May 19 11:35:34 BCMM: for photos - without May 19 11:35:44 SpeedEvil: is dng compressed? May 19 11:35:54 but that would put another postal roundtrip before this gets fixed, and getting a spare battery seems like a good idea May 19 11:36:17 lardman|home: thanks, though May 19 11:36:23 I assume you have no local shops that might sell stuff like http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mini-USB-Battery-Charger-Universal-Key-Ring-Mobile-MP3-/140528801499?pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhoneAccessories_MobilePhoneChargers&hash=item20b82b56db ? May 19 11:36:25 how does one avoid getting a fake BL-5J? are the major retailers like carphone warehouse reliable? May 19 11:36:28 http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/power/batteries/nokia-battery-bl-5j/compatibility May 19 11:37:19 BCMM: np May 19 11:37:34 BCMM: take your original nokia battery with you when shopping, and cmpare closely May 19 11:37:54 DocScrutinizer: How convincing are the fakes? May 19 11:38:01 very May 19 11:38:27 hmm May 19 11:38:30 allegedly even nokia has to take them apart to spot any diffs May 19 11:38:37 damn May 19 11:38:40 I got a fake with a new phone, box was probably unsealed - dodgy mobile phone companies May 19 11:39:21 lardman|home: ... what the hell? May 19 11:39:22 took the whole lot back - battery life was crap, scratched the back and looked at Nokia webpage for S/N and it wasn't real, etc May 19 11:39:30 yeah May 19 11:39:36 but then some of the "fakes" are also electrically better than the original :-P May 19 11:39:54 DocScrutinizer: so, we just need to be able to spot *those* :-) May 19 11:40:20 then again if you buy a battery which isn't trying to be a fake, that might be a better bet? May 19 11:40:31 sure May 19 11:40:49 you save like 80% and know what you get May 19 11:41:31 DocScrutinizer: but... but... i thought it was IMPOSSIBLE to fake a hologram! May 19 11:41:33 ;) May 19 11:41:48 I however bought a "used one" in my next little turkish cellphone shopee and it cost like 8 bucks instead of 45 and was just fine May 19 11:42:01 lardman|home: yeah, so i was basically wondering who the non-dodgy companies are May 19 11:42:19 i mean obviously i'll avoid unlocking shops and market stalls, but can i trust carphone warehouse? May 19 11:42:41 "electrically better" in what respect? May 19 11:42:52 more mAh for ex May 19 11:43:03 I can't remember who I bought my dodgy phone from, but it wasn't Carphone Warehouse that's for sure - was one of the ones with a 4 in the title I imagine May 19 11:43:28 a chain? May 19 11:43:41 BCMM: don't worry, just make sure you got some ass to kick, when the battery is crap May 19 11:43:53 wise. May 19 11:44:10 what does one call those shops that seem to be in every UK city May 19 11:44:36 they're tiny, not part of chains, and advertise mobile phone credit, overseas phone cards and unlocking May 19 11:44:59 I call then turkish cellphone shopee May 19 11:45:08 heh May 19 11:45:19 dunno what yours are called May 19 11:46:12 usually those are like 40m^2 and run by a single turkish dude here in Germany May 19 11:47:04 most of them look like utter mess, and sell laserpointers, lighters, random crap as well May 19 11:47:35 do they make profit? May 19 11:47:48 the ones here have stacks of cables and lots of those dangly flashy things shaped like bubbies or ponies or hearts that go off when a phone rings May 19 11:47:51 dunno how, but obviously the do May 19 11:47:59 s/bb/nn May 19 11:48:02 they won't tell anybody how they do, I guess May 19 11:48:41 DocScrutinizer: they just react to interferance from the GSM signal i guess May 19 11:49:12 the "ring extenders"? yeah, indeed May 19 11:50:27 you can as well place your cellphone on top of a Logitech noisecube (aka amp speaker for computers), and they all will fail on 3G May 19 11:50:50 aiui May 19 11:52:07 dum da-dum dum da-dum dum da-dum. May 19 11:53:40 hm May 19 11:53:53 who was it here that said they were having problems with mail for exchange contacts and google? May 19 11:54:04 it seems to be working like an absolute champ :) syncing is working well May 19 12:12:36 The big shocker was the notes actually work May 19 12:12:58 omg the n900 has become so awesome again May 19 12:13:09 welll..... became awesome at all :) May 19 12:18:45 Macer, ? May 19 12:19:21 hm, i set a root password on my n900. wouldnt that be problematic on reboot? May 19 12:19:29 phrearch, no. May 19 12:19:40 Macer: me and no never worked... May 19 12:19:40 Venemo: ah ok. pfew :) May 19 12:19:57 phrearch: why should it? May 19 12:20:23 you get automagically logged in as "user" May 19 12:20:58 you can also set a password for "user" and still not have problems May 19 12:21:55 chem|st: just scared i mess up things beyond a point of return i guess May 19 12:22:13 ok May 19 12:22:22 wonder if there are other browsers available for maemo that support websockets May 19 12:22:36 ff4 is not for maemo yet? May 19 12:22:44 or something based on gecko May 19 12:23:00 There is fennec for maemo May 19 12:23:07 Which is firefox 4 May 19 12:23:20 aha cool. ill give that a try May 19 12:23:35 aka firefox mobile May 19 12:23:52 tear looks quite nice as well. not sure if that webkit supports websockets yet. guess not May 19 12:24:00 fennec was extremely bad last time I tried, although I haven't looked at it in a while May 19 12:25:26 phrearch: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools # fix NOPASSWD for root / sudo gainroot May 19 12:26:03 ah thanks May 19 12:26:19 hm, i installed this cool awoken theme, but it seems to have some issue with theme-customizer May 19 12:30:47 heh May 19 12:31:06 i sure haven't changed my theme in a very long time May 19 12:31:50 Macer: matrix from the start on^^ May 19 12:32:05 heh May 19 12:32:18 doesn't matrix change your startup splash? May 19 12:32:53 i wouldn't mind using a maemo splash instead of the lame nokia nazi hands May 19 12:32:56 no May 19 12:33:16 is it even possible to change the splash in m5? May 19 12:33:47 yes, the build sequence from the teaser would be nice May 19 12:35:35 hm May 19 12:35:37 i should look May 19 12:36:05 valerio developed a bootscreen app, should be in devel May 19 12:36:17 when did valerio vanish btw May 19 12:37:01 he maintains some apps but they are all stuck unfinished in devel May 19 12:37:03 how do i turn the scrolling windows thing off? May 19 12:37:08 i liked the scaled ones better May 19 12:37:26 you are talking crypts to me May 19 12:38:56 well.. with cssu .. when you tap the top left the windows scroll May 19 12:39:00 before they were scaled May 19 12:39:08 the more windows the smaller they were..the scrolling crap sucks May 19 12:44:32 you mean the window overview May 19 12:44:41 idk May 19 12:53:24 Macer: there are various apps to change the boot video, but you can also just replace the video file from the shell May 19 12:53:54 mine scrolls "DON'T PANIC" in large, friendly letters May 19 12:56:19 what does it use? May 19 12:56:25 is it just an mp4? May 19 12:56:41 BCMM: gimmegimmegimmegimme!!!!! May 19 12:56:55 DocScrutinizer: the vid? May 19 12:56:59 yes!! May 19 12:57:10 DocScrutinizer: heh, lemme see if i have a copy that's not on the broken phone May 19 12:57:22 +1 May 19 12:57:23 I'm the inventor of the "DONT PANIC" bootscreen of openmoko SHR May 19 12:57:40 and I asked several times for that for N900 May 19 12:57:48 it may have been you're idea May 19 12:57:59 quite possibly May 19 12:58:00 i think somebody in this channel mentioned "don't panic" May 19 12:58:08 that's been me May 19 12:58:45 DocScrutinizer: can you check the framerate of the default video? May 19 12:58:59 hmm, nfc how to do that May 19 12:59:28 oh, mplayer will tell you in stdout if you play it May 19 12:59:42 you see, i played about with a few versions with different refresh rates May 19 12:59:45 i mean, fps May 19 12:59:49 hmm, ok. I wonder if I got any mplayer installed though May 19 12:59:50 can't remember which one came out smoothest May 19 13:00:32 where's that friggin video? May 19 13:00:40 Macer: mpeg-4 AVI May 19 13:00:51 (path) May 19 13:00:53 hildon-welcome or something May 19 13:01:01 I'll find May 19 13:01:01 i mean /usr/share/hildon-welcome May 19 13:01:03 i think? May 19 13:01:12 oh May 19 13:01:14 oh wow May 19 13:01:30 mpeg-4 is really good at encoding frames where stuff just moves around May 19 13:01:37 288kB May 19 13:02:19 ?? /opt/usr/share/hildon-welcome/media/Hands-v32-h264.avi ?? May 19 13:03:01 [h264] 800x480 24bpp 24.000 fps 2332.0 kbps (284.7 kbyte/s) May 19 13:03:46 DocScrutinizer: http://benmorris.org.uk/dontpanic.avi May 19 13:03:50 DocScrutinizer: yeah, that's the one May 19 13:04:07 Hi. is there a possibility to record telephone call? May 19 13:04:12 DocScrutinizer: you either overwrite that, or the new one in the same directory and edit a config file May 19 13:04:14 BCMM: no mplayer here :-/ May 19 13:04:24 it's ok, i'm pretty sure this one is hte right one May 19 13:04:31 I know about the config file I think May 19 13:04:33 source available, if you're interested May 19 13:04:33 thanks May 19 13:04:38 nah May 19 13:04:57 source is a gimp XCF for the text, and a bash script that generates frames with imagemagick and renders video with mencoder May 19 13:05:58 it's green because i use a green theme but it's easy to fix that in gimp and re-render May 19 13:06:51 wow, that'd be interesting for educational purpose nevertheless May 19 13:07:57 i wouldn't use it for that, it's pretty ugly bash May 19 13:08:03 meh, of course my laptop refuses to play avi "no demuxer found" May 19 13:08:22 I love ugly bash ;-) May 19 13:08:22 DocScrutinizer: what do you run on the laptop? May 19 13:08:23 haha May 19 13:08:30 use vlc May 19 13:08:34 :-P May 19 13:08:40 BCMM: mmh I would like to do something alike with it showing a green black console, reading some starting progress, configuring launch silo controls, setting navigational control etc May 19 13:08:46 mplayer on phone and PC plays it fine May 19 13:09:05 yeah. i just looked at it bccm May 19 13:09:15 does that just loop when it boots? May 19 13:09:32 this is a somewhat OpenSuse-ish system here, that got updated since suse6.0, across unclean migration to kde4 and whatnot May 19 13:10:01 yuck May 19 13:10:06 :) May 19 13:10:15 at some point in time all the unclean codecs borked May 19 13:10:20 if you use kde you should use kubuntu May 19 13:10:29 eeeew May 19 13:10:48 no shuttleworth abominations on my machines May 19 13:11:42 I like *somewhat* clean linux May 19 13:11:45 shuttleworth? May 19 13:11:48 :) May 19 13:11:52 "source" at http://benmorris.org.uk/bootscreen/ May 19 13:12:09 ive been using kubuntu for months.. it is great May 19 13:12:12 although if you do re-build it, you should probably adjust the FPS and ofps in the encoder script May 19 13:12:57 also, it will use like 25MB of disk space to generage a 250KB video May 19 13:13:18 :) May 19 13:13:22 25MB May 19 13:13:30 better use the fileserver May 19 13:13:56 that video is like 5 secs May 19 13:14:08 is there for Phone recording something easyier than this: http://wiki.maemo.org/Recording_phonecalls ? May 19 13:14:11 i could imagine rendering an entire movie May 19 13:14:52 markinfo: if she is banging the mailman then recording your breakup conversation is not the way to go May 19 13:15:09 markinfo: i remember there being an app in the repos that did it May 19 13:16:51 bbl May 19 13:17:10 Macer: like i said, it does it stupidly May 19 13:17:11 recall May 19 13:17:16 . May 19 13:17:18 Macer: first it generates a PNG for each frame May 19 13:17:20 ? May 19 13:17:34 which is the 25MB May 19 13:17:56 markinfo: it says it right at the top of the page you posted :-P recaller May 19 13:17:57 then you use mencoder to make an .avi out of hte pngs May 19 13:18:39 BCMM: isn't that how it is done regardless of how you do it? May 19 13:18:45 ;) May 19 13:19:03 * Macer is reminded of film when people used to use that May 19 13:19:13 well, if it wasn't all done in bash, i'm sure you could render each frame in h264 as you generate it May 19 13:19:18 most movies are filmed digitally nowadays arent they? May 19 13:19:21 instead of store all the frames, then do it May 19 13:19:45 then grain filtered for that movie look? May 19 13:20:37 Macer: nope analog May 19 13:21:18 analog? May 19 13:21:27 they still use film? May 19 13:21:35 Macer: yes for sure May 19 13:21:41 markinfo: http://maemo.org/packages/view/recaller/ May 19 13:21:49 wow May 19 13:21:59 i think most big-budget films have substantial parts that are digitally altered, at least May 19 13:22:18 if only to avoid actually having to go to all of the locations shown May 19 13:22:21 even digitaly generated movies get mastered on film May 19 13:22:26 i thought they used digital cameras May 19 13:22:31 yes, i know you can green-screen without digital tech, but it's less convincing May 19 13:22:45 since it saves a ton of money May 19 13:22:51 film is expensive May 19 13:23:03 hm - it means "recaller" records all calls? May 19 13:23:18 markinfo: when you push the button! May 19 13:24:04 or when you tell it to automatically May 19 13:24:07 thanks - i will try. May 19 13:24:42 Macer: yes but digital has problems with lightning and stuff, bright daylight makes artifacts even on 10k€ CCDs May 19 13:25:19 will screw hildon-home... May 19 13:25:22 wohoo May 19 13:25:27 opera mobile 11 has websockets May 19 13:28:29 reminds me to give recaller another shot. been a while and some PR-versions back when it acted up on me, not stpping recording at end of call May 19 13:28:55 and it been friggin awesome as long as it worked May 19 13:29:50 I've been temped to donate as soon as I looked at the garage page, but then it says "use about/donate in recaller" ;-P May 19 13:30:42 also it's a shame the most recent version hangs around in testing with 0 thumbs up May 19 13:32:07 how is any sane devel going to maintain his pkg when it never leaves testing May 19 13:33:04 another sneaky trick to suffocate maemo May 19 13:35:52 * DocScrutinizer opts for a "official" wrapper framework to wrap each single testing app into a starter wrapper that opens the garage page of the package on app-close, and explains to user he used a testing-app and it's his obligation to either give it thumbs-up now, or thumbs-down plus proper criticism May 19 13:36:49 can't be hard to establish May 19 13:37:46 just x-fade (or whoever is in charge) had to implement that mandatory wrapper around all apps/pkgs in testing then May 19 13:37:55 can you not promote packages now without getting thumbs up or something? >_> May 19 13:38:11 never heard of that May 19 13:38:17 then why does it matter? May 19 13:38:24 you can promote devel->testing May 19 13:38:42 not testing->extras afaik May 19 13:38:48 ah, who does that? May 19 13:38:56 the system May 19 13:38:59 last time I was doing it I could promote to extras myself May 19 13:39:02 on 10 thumbs-up May 19 13:39:05 ah May 19 13:39:09 so, what i just asked :P May 19 13:39:58 does anyone actually realize that? >_> May 19 13:39:59 well, actually you (the devel) have to do that, but you have to gather 10 thumb-up for being able to do so May 19 13:40:31 afaik May 19 13:40:37 what if you have 100 thumbs down and manage to get your 10th thumbs up, rofl May 19 13:40:56 there's a rule for that, read about it May 19 13:41:08 man, they've changed a lot around here May 19 13:41:15 i guess to prevent random spam May 19 13:42:11 ~seen MohammadAG May 19 13:42:18 mohammadag is currently on #maemo (7h 5m 28s) #meego (7h 5m 28s). Has said a total of 3 messages. Is idling for 5h 59m 34s, last said: 'I thought you said you were a contractor'. May 19 13:42:37 there's like 10 days quarantine before you can promote to testing, and tehre's quite some conditions to be met to promote to extras May 19 13:43:11 the odd thing is this applies for patches/new versions as well May 19 13:43:31 and there's not been any solution to that yet May 19 13:44:20 however an automatic popup of microb on right page, after you quit a testing app, should be easy to implement May 19 13:45:16 there are fine apps hanging around and collecting dust in testing like forever now May 19 13:45:55 in the end testing tends to be a showstopper May 19 13:46:22 better would be to ASK for permission to start microb and send you to the page May 19 13:46:37 esp seeing how many borked-to-the-bones apps made it to extras May 19 13:46:57 edheldil: where's the difference? May 19 13:47:51 the connection searching is pretty annoying if you are not already on wifi May 19 13:48:14 so you can deny connection when you're concerned about that May 19 13:48:51 I don't see the difference between the two requesters May 19 13:56:23 ~extras-testing May 19 13:56:24 rumour has it, extras-testing is the maemo testing repository, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-05-19.log.html#t2011-05-19T16:27:37 May 19 14:01:54 hi May 19 14:02:20 whats the best way to back up my n900 onto my pc as i have to send it back to nokia May 19 14:03:18 sftp, or even better rsync May 19 14:04:15 sftp://ip-of-my-n900 in your favourite filebrowser is a raher convenient way May 19 14:04:19 Also 'backup' May 19 14:04:28 not to PC May 19 14:04:40 This will back up the calls and other databases in a way that can be easily resored May 19 14:04:57 you back those databases up to a file on mydocs, and you then copy across to PC May 19 14:05:00 quite a partial backup nevertheless May 19 14:05:57 I got a full copy of rootfs and /home fs on my PC, done via rsync (daily by a cronjob ;-D) May 19 14:12:14 actually sftp://root@ip-of-my-n900 May 19 14:14:06 or - probably best way - use backupmenu May 19 14:14:34 then copy the tarball(s) to your PC May 19 14:15:02 hail robbiethe2st May 19 14:15:07 err 1st May 19 14:16:15 http://maemo.org/packages/view/backupmenu/ May 19 14:18:19 bug 12237 May 19 14:18:20 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/12237 Default WiFi power-saving mode 'Maximum' is unreliable and performs poorly May 19 14:18:36 errr wut? May 19 14:19:02 cssu madness May 19 14:19:13 isn't that related to the particular AP implemetation definitely? May 19 14:19:15 good, it's ignored so far :) May 19 14:19:19 Yeah May 19 14:20:09 "go fix the wifi-chip's firmware, fool!" May 19 14:20:44 INVALID - done May 19 14:21:25 meh May 19 14:23:51 SpeedEvil: what does backup.... backup? May 19 14:24:06 It backs up what it says it backs up. May 19 14:24:15 Calls/text/databases, and application lists. May 19 14:24:33 and a few settings May 19 14:25:11 I think xchat adds itself to the things to backup too May 19 14:29:00 some apps definitely don't May 19 14:29:34 some tweaks to /etc/*random also not saved May 19 14:30:00 ShadowJK: see my comment to 12237 :-P May 19 14:32:55 I recently bought a wifi ap brand A and usb wireless adapter brand A. PSM didn't work :) May 19 14:33:05 but it did work with N900 May 19 14:33:10 LOL May 19 14:34:04 I have installed a widget - but how to use that? How to start it? May 19 14:34:56 install it from desktop wrench May 19 14:35:49 These are this Thing that lies on the desktop? May 19 14:35:50 i.e. click homescreen, click gear, click menu, add widget May 19 14:36:36 click "done" :-) May 19 14:36:52 DocScrutinizer, I have installed http://maemo.org/packages/view/recaller/ ...but there is no such Widget - of this name. Is it necessary to restart? May 19 14:37:37 you added the widget to your desktop? by procedure I toldya? May 19 14:38:25 or do you say recaller is missing in the add-widget dropdown menu? May 19 14:38:35 are there any problems with ssu and mmc? May 19 14:38:43 there is really "add widget" ...but there is only few of them like Email, First steps .... the last is Place May 19 14:38:44 no May 19 14:38:58 reboot then May 19 14:39:08 didnt solve the problem May 19 14:39:13 recaler should be there May 19 14:39:17 duh May 19 14:39:25 mmc cover state open May 19 14:39:39 frozen_de: wasn't meant to you May 19 14:39:44 i will try restart. May 19 14:39:49 oh :> May 19 14:39:58 mmc cover state open possibly means you lost your stand magnet May 19 14:40:22 i know, i tested another magnet of the fridge on the sensor May 19 14:40:35 that's the problem then May 19 14:40:46 cssu not involved May 19 14:41:05 ok damn, then i cant use the sd anymore in my n900 :( May 19 14:41:08 cssu doesn't touch that subsystem domain May 19 14:41:48 this may not be a good channel to ask this but here goes anyway... do you know some simple vector editor for linux that could export Shapefile format? May 19 14:42:20 I found a command line tool but it's a bit tedious May 19 14:42:46 prolly as good as #random channel, anyway no idea. Wait for other replies May 19 14:43:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_geographic_information_systems_software ? May 19 14:43:25 DocScrutinizer, after restart there is red Button on the desktop at once - it seems be this widget - was automatically after restart added. May 19 14:43:32 or is this a non-gis use for shapefiles? May 19 14:44:00 lardman, this is actually for a lego robot, a new version of lejos can read in the maps as Shapefiles May 19 14:44:07 oh cool May 19 14:44:13 so I just need to be able to put a few polygons or lines there May 19 14:44:20 (or do it myself) May 19 14:44:33 markinfo: ok, then that's te explanation why it wasn't in list of widgets :-) May 19 14:44:34 I don't have any experience other than trying to get MATLAB to read shapefiles from the Ordnance Survey datasets May 19 14:44:52 it's not that important really, but would be nice for testing May 19 14:45:14 where is backup stored afterwards May 19 14:46:04 of backup app? May 19 14:46:28 joga: is the format simple enough that you could write your own editor? May 19 14:46:54 yeah May 19 14:47:04 I presume you're just planning to do ahead 2m, right 6m; rather than trying to do map-like scales? May 19 14:47:28 either somewhere in MyDocs, or on your uSD if you selected so and had one inserted May 19 14:48:52 /MyDocs/backups/* May 19 14:49:10 I'd guess May 19 14:52:49 cheers.... need to send my n900 back to nokia the micro usb is..... :( May 19 14:53:04 I almost don't want to see a N900+1 :) May 19 14:53:13 lardman, yeah it's simple enough, it's just that I'd like it to be simple enough for the students to use too and I may not have time to code a mostly bug-free editor right now as I only have a few days ;) May 19 14:53:30 (because it'll take weeks and weeks to migrate to new os) May 19 14:53:39 ah fair enough, didn't realise it was a student project May 19 14:53:49 in that case have them each design an editor too! ;) May 19 14:53:56 yes, that's an option ;) May 19 14:54:02 ShadowJK: i wouldn't mind seeing meego in action but i doubt the phone will be as good as the n900 May 19 14:54:11 I'll just probably make an example with a hardcoded map and tell them where to go from there May 19 14:54:28 like will the new one have infra red... May 19 14:54:37 fm transmitter... May 19 14:54:40 etc May 19 14:55:00 I suspect it'll be "MeeGo compatible" at best May 19 14:55:14 I don't care about the transmitter tbh, wasn't very useful for me, but a receiver is pretty important May 19 14:55:40 lardman: trasmitter is good in work :) May 19 14:56:02 tune your work radio into your phone and bam May 19 14:56:05 why not just listen with headphones? May 19 14:56:10 I tried that radio app once and it was totally unusable :) May 19 14:56:10 its a fanastic feature May 19 14:56:13 ah, for all the office? May 19 14:56:24 I never used the FM receiver of the N900, but I did use the FM transmitter lots of times May 19 14:56:26 not many cars have line-in May 19 14:56:35 dnla or whatever it's called then, join the 21st Century ;) May 19 14:56:58 fmtx has the advantage of lasting all workday on battery :) May 19 14:57:14 ok, so I'm outvoted, no worries :) May 19 14:57:48 dnla is like 3-4 hours batterylife May 19 14:58:17 DocScrutinizer, It means all widget may be used only once? And then disappears from this "add widget" menu? May 19 14:58:19 a2dp is a bit better.. but not much May 19 14:59:26 markinfo: depends. In the beginning that's been the case. Afaik recaller been on of the first apps that shipped around that issue. Nowadays there's a documented way for hildon to have several identical widgets May 19 15:00:20 depending on the particular widget and its config May 19 15:01:09 recaller explicitly makes use of several widgets for diferent purposes May 19 15:01:32 (however wicked that approach might be) May 19 15:02:42 queen beecon for example lives on the prerequisite to get installed as widget multiple times May 19 15:03:17 other widgets explicitly don't want to see their twins around May 19 15:05:08 I suspect recaller's installation being quite a bit hackerish to get around the early problems with this. So expect unusual behaviour until reboot May 19 15:05:43 will C# run on a N900? May 19 15:05:49 lardman: even fmtx handsfree radiotransmit works flawless May 19 15:05:51 *BURRP* May 19 15:06:04 i think I saw someone in here yesterday with a mono port May 19 15:06:08 arvut: what is C# May 19 15:06:18 MO - NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! May 19 15:06:19 chem|st: does it now autoscan for channels with no other signals? May 19 15:06:20 in other words, is there a framework for C# available for maemo5? May 19 15:06:20 and mono runs C# so.. May 19 15:06:29 lardman: nope May 19 15:06:50 arvut, you can run .NET executables with Mono, yes. May 19 15:06:51 mono is available for maemo5 then? cool =) May 19 15:06:55 chem|st: that's the problem I had, and it was annoying needing to work out exactly which channel to tune to to avoid that May 19 15:07:17 arvut: but maemo isn't available for mono ;-P May 19 15:07:29 I've decided to learn some C#, C++ got too heavy, will continue with it later May 19 15:07:32 lardman: but that would need an attached cable so very useful for me with never having a headset with me ever! o_O May 19 15:08:03 DocScrutinizer: can you elaborate on that please? May 19 15:08:24 chem|st: no, the fm transmitter hw has a basic tuner too for afaict finding quiet channels, would be interesting to get that working from a purely scientific point of view May 19 15:08:39 arvut: on a less funny word: do whatever you like on your device, but prepare to see thumbs-down for various reasons when you try to get any mono app into extras May 19 15:08:55 chem|st: I work in a shared office, so I always use headphones, so it's not a big thing for me (plus I can store far more music on my external HDD than my N900) May 19 15:08:57 lardman: there was an approach BUT without attached headset useless May 19 15:09:29 chem|st: ah I see what you mean, I wonder which tuner that was trying to use then, interesting May 19 15:09:35 lardman: my carradio has usb but doesn't like my 1TB hdd... May 19 15:09:37 arvut: in other words, I think mono is a broken thing on any linux machine May 19 15:10:05 I'm not too fussed by music in the car May 19 15:10:08 DocScrutinizer: how come? May 19 15:10:43 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRsaExGcx5A May 19 15:10:43 bad experience with all those mono based random crap May 19 15:10:49 lardman: yeah it actually would work if the reciever would be able to catch even weak signals May 19 15:11:05 chem|st: lardman: exactly May 19 15:11:35 DocScrutinizer: might stick to windows for the moment but would be cool to know if I could in the future write C# programs for this lovely phone :P May 19 15:11:36 I mean without antenna-style-headset tightened right through my car May 19 15:11:42 I wonder how that transmitter chipset's receiver is designed to work then, whether it actually comes with an aerial or not wrapped around inside - though that might not be very efficient May 19 15:12:02 If you want to laugh, you may want to have a look at that video I posted May 19 15:12:33 arvut: why not switch to c++, objective c, or plain c instead? May 19 15:12:57 heh May 19 15:13:17 crashanddie: lol May 19 15:13:39 DocScrutinizer: I will, one day.. for now I'll study some C#. did get a bit tired of C++ and havent done C in a loong time. C# feels somewhat fresh May 19 15:13:39 hmm, and I thought insurance was boring: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13454160 May 19 15:13:42 DocScrutinizer: ew c++ May 19 15:13:42 lardman: + the transmitter denies to work with headset connected, would need a hack as the device does not know about the dimming of the antenna (private radio station...) May 19 15:13:46 :< May 19 15:14:11 C++ is a bit overwhelming for sure May 19 15:14:19 kerio: eew C# May 19 15:14:21 there's that replacement fmtxd that allows fmtx with cables connected May 19 15:14:22 but I still love it May 19 15:14:27 DocScrutinizer: yeah, that's almost even worse May 19 15:14:43 ShadowJK: does it really work though? May 19 15:14:55 haven't tried it May 19 15:14:58 needs at least some heavier tweak right_ May 19 15:14:58 but the horribleness of the language beats the horribleness of the associated politics May 19 15:15:09 is reported to work May 19 15:15:19 OTB? May 19 15:15:31 yup May 19 15:15:33 kinda May 19 15:15:38 chem|st: I was thinking about using the transmitter chipset's receiver May 19 15:15:41 ahhh ^^ May 19 15:16:00 lardman: the antenna of FMTX is really poor May 19 15:16:18 lardman: you won't get signal on bands that will interfear with your car radio May 19 15:16:51 so it's not good enough to pick up a signal on things that would interfere? May 19 15:16:58 this concept of integrated fmrx for finding chan by FMTX chip could work if they cared more about a proper antenna, but that is difficult for ambedded May 19 15:17:00 ok, well that's a reason for not using it then :) May 19 15:17:02 Even without the typical language vs another language issues... Running several frameworks/runtimes on a limited RAM system makes for sluggishness. I killed all python widgets and responsiveness improved, jitter/stutter was reduced. The same applies probably to QT, ruby, perl, java, and whatever else is popular these days... May 19 15:17:09 bbiab May 19 15:17:33 ShadowJK: +1 May 19 15:17:51 so if the phone was primarily built on Mono I'd probably say it'd make more sense to use Mono C# as that imposes the least additional burden on ram May 19 15:18:25 ShadowJK: ++ May 19 15:18:28 DocScrutinizer, has anyone tried using fmtx rx for channel hopping? I've been meaning to do it but never had time :) May 19 15:18:29 mono is still msft crap May 19 15:18:37 lardman: as soon as I get another device I will torcher it to do some hardware changes... May 19 15:18:53 ShadowJK: no decent reports here on that, only hearsay May 19 15:19:06 +1 May 19 15:19:22 * ShadowJK wondrs if you can bang fmtx with i2c-tools from userspace May 19 15:19:43 you can bang fmtx with v4l-ctl May 19 15:19:45 plus of course scientific evaluation of the theoretical case May 19 15:19:56 I'd want to make a poor man's spectrum analyzer at around 100MHz, to find leaking ethernet and stuff May 19 15:20:31 kerio, iirc the drivers don't expose the "find quietest channel and switch to it" feature? May 19 15:20:39 there's something like that? :o May 19 15:20:42 cool May 19 15:20:44 ShadowJK: that needs some hal... May 19 15:21:32 I don't recall that. May 19 15:21:33 lmc if I have a spare one to mount with a 3.5 jack... May 19 15:21:41 well pals, my suggestion is a completely different one anyway: find a silent freq on your car radio, then let N900 figure out the right freq to TX, by sending a pilot and feedback via mic May 19 15:21:41 I do remember a 'measure power on given channel' May 19 15:22:11 SpeedEvil: you wont se pulses in ranges of ns May 19 15:22:13 way better usability, cleaner concept May 19 15:22:15 iirc I read the kernel driver and it didn't implement "measure power on given channel" or "find free channel" features, which the hardware supports May 19 15:22:51 the hardware itself has those features? May 19 15:23:07 yes May 19 15:23:10 then we need new drivers... May 19 15:23:23 I promised to come up with a RFC how to do that long time ago here in this chan, but basically this one sentence above has it all May 19 15:23:57 the intent has probably been that fmtx can find quietest frequenceis independently, and your receiver radio automatically follows it with RDS May 19 15:24:19 DocScrutinizer: start coding then... May 19 15:24:32 meh, the chip manuf had no particular original intention May 19 15:24:33 DocScrutinizer: sounds like a good idea to me May 19 15:25:48 chem|st: I've been a coder when I was young. Now I'm senior system architect and project lead usually May 19 15:26:12 get someone to code then, right? ;) May 19 15:26:17 rrrrright May 19 15:26:24 scientists have figured out the reason for the behaviour of apple's fanboys. http://www.techradar.com/news/computing/apple/apple-evokes-religious-response-from-fans-957163 May 19 15:26:25 where is MohammadAG May 19 15:26:35 ~seen MohammadAG May 19 15:26:39 lmao May 19 15:26:46 mohammadag is currently on #maemo (8h 49m 55s) #meego (8h 49m 55s). Has said a total of 3 messages. Is idling for 7h 44m 1s, last said: 'I thought you said you were a contractor'. May 19 15:27:32 * merlin1991 propses an addition to the topic: "need some code done? ping MohammadAG" May 19 15:30:23 chem|st: whatever, I guess we could make this fly with a shellscript accessing some /sys/* and exploiting sox or whatever May 19 15:32:28 if only there was some decent cmdline tool for messing with pukeaudio. All I know is playsound, nothing to select a particular output (earpiece, speakers...) or even to record and select mic May 19 15:36:19 I had also planned to write the follow quietest channel, but as with other people more pressing matters (mBarcode, day job) intruded on my masterplan May 19 15:36:42 plus as I said I'm not that fussed to listen to music in the car, so not really a major factor there May 19 15:39:12 has there been anything interesting related to the "n950" in the kernel patches recently? Anything new for example? May 19 15:40:23 My initial reaction whenever I've accidentally stumbled upon people faffing about with the kernel, has been to hide my face with my hand May 19 15:47:18 ShadowJK, aka. facepalm? May 19 15:47:23 indeed May 19 15:47:31 because that way they can't see you hwy ShadowJK ? ;) May 19 15:47:45 cry May 19 15:47:46 oh, that :) May 19 15:48:34 time for home May 19 15:48:38 catch you chaps tomorrow May 19 15:48:49 bb lardman May 19 15:48:57 btw, what is the "N950"? May 19 15:49:35 upcoming new hardware, according to the interwebs. May 19 15:49:51 andre__, it has been only rumour, last time I heard of it May 19 15:50:28 well, there's a leaked nokia promo video out now that nokia had pulled May 19 15:50:38 nid0, link pls? May 19 15:50:53 no-one seems certain whether itll be named n950 or n9 though May 19 15:51:14 http://mynokiablog.com/2011/05/19/nokia-pulls-nokia-n9-teaser-vid-from-youtube/ May 19 15:51:37 a "leaked nokia promo video" without any product name shown in the video? well, if people want to believe they do.... :) May 19 15:52:23 andre__, did you see it? May 19 15:52:34 well, its a video of a device clearly not running symbian or wp7, in a design matching every other piece of info about the n9/n950 May 19 15:52:40 GAN900, it is in the linked site May 19 15:52:56 and it looks quite un-promising, compared to the N90 May 19 15:52:58 and it looks quite un-promising, compared to the N900 May 19 15:53:15 There are also FCC docs. May 19 15:53:23 looked promising to me May 19 15:53:30 * GAN900 too May 19 15:53:34 GAN900, yes, saw it once May 19 15:53:36 no camera lens cove May 19 15:53:39 ditto, except the keyboard May 19 15:53:49 andre__, looks pretty authentic to me. :P May 19 15:53:55 * Arkenoi trolled on dev days ok. "We are especially happy about the sense of confidence Nokia provides to developer community -- Me: Tell that to Meego developers, it makes fun!" May 19 15:53:56 no camera lens cover, iphone-looking icons, etc. May 19 15:53:58 GAN900, might be real, might not be real. still it's a little bit fishy to not have any product name in there May 19 15:54:04 the only thing looking good on it is the keyboard. May 19 15:54:25 andre__, matches the FCC docs pretty closely. May 19 15:54:36 UI shots were fairly clearly real. May 19 15:54:49 Venemo, Symbian Anna icons. May 19 15:55:01 GAN900, whatever. they look awful May 19 15:55:07 * GAN900 shrugs May 19 15:55:12 Icons can be changed. May 19 15:55:18 GAN900, ah, nice to know, then I can take that video a lit bit more serious :) May 19 15:55:41 andre__, skeptical old me believes that's legit. May 19 15:56:00 FCC confidentiality ends middle of June. May 19 15:56:13 So we'll know within a month. May 19 15:56:18 ~FCC May 19 15:56:18 well, fcc is (Federal Communications Commission) These are the people in the government who decide what's legal and illegal to broadcast, including what frequencies are allowed to be used by whom. May 19 15:56:41 "in the government" -> which government? May 19 15:56:47 US May 19 15:56:56 US&A May 19 15:57:01 (if Federal shouldn't give it away) May 19 15:57:01 ah. May 19 15:57:12 yeah, "Federal". sure. May 19 15:57:19 there are lots of federal governments May 19 15:57:27 isn't there a similar entity in the EU? May 19 15:57:29 it tends to only be americans to think theirs is the only one May 19 15:57:43 nid0 ++ May 19 15:57:47 nid0, sure, but nor a lot of agencies calling themselves "Federal" elsewhere. May 19 15:58:15 It tends to be Europeans who dish out the American hate to makes themselves feel better. May 19 15:58:50 honestly, modulo the FCC stuff, what's new on that N9?? beyond what we know since last August? May 19 15:58:50 GAN900, I do not have any hate for Americans May 19 15:59:05 DocScrutinizer, nothing solid May 19 15:59:10 (Also: Canadians, because they're different than Americans "we swear!") May 19 15:59:12 nothing at all May 19 15:59:24 6-band cellular May 19 15:59:31 802.11n May 19 15:59:32 that's FCC May 19 15:59:38 that's FCC May 19 15:59:44 Oh, right. May 19 15:59:54 * GAN900 's reading comprehension is low. May 19 16:00:03 They're using the Symbian Anna look! May 19 16:00:12 Ovi Maps is bundled. May 19 16:00:23 wtf is "Symbian Anna" anyway? and why should we care about it? May 19 16:00:40 Venema PR2 for Symbian^3 May 19 16:00:44 got this link since err, 9 months now: http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277333 May 19 16:00:48 DocScrutinizer: someone on tmo did some semibullshit pixel guesswork to assume a 1280x720 screen... May 19 16:00:51 that's new May 19 16:00:54 We shouldn't, that's just the theme they're borrowing. May 19 16:01:20 It's 16:9 856x480 (or whatever) May 19 16:01:44 *burrp* May 19 16:01:54 how boring May 19 16:02:06 * DocScrutinizer feels like this is tmo May 19 16:02:44 DocScrutinizer ++ May 19 16:05:02 the video does confirm AF rather than edof on the camera, afaik that wasnt mentioned in the fcc info May 19 16:05:05 raise new DocScrutinizerDoesntApproveException May 19 16:05:06 in fact I'm still pondering if that "promo" is a mockup from that link I posted, plus random other shit May 19 16:05:25 It's not May 19 16:05:32 Look at the UI shots May 19 16:05:54 ghhh May 19 16:06:49 quite probably it's *some* leaked promo for *some* Nokia product May 19 16:07:35 maybe even a random PoC for a new PR strategy, unrelated to the particular device used May 19 16:07:49 Well, it's not WP7, and it's not Symbian May 19 16:07:56 So our options are limited May 19 16:08:03 We'll know by June May 19 16:09:32 not WP7? don't they have mobile powerpoint or sth like that? May 19 16:10:48 if it is then theyve gone a long way out of their way to make a maemo/meego style mockup May 19 16:11:13 that's definitely not a maemo lookalike May 19 16:11:48 the calendar is incredibly similar looking to fremantle, as is the task switcher May 19 16:11:51 and what exactly *is* meego style ;-D May 19 16:11:54 and the status bar is identical to meego's May 19 16:13:03 ohmy, so you really can see some interim version of meego handset UX there. Incredible, but what does that tell us about *the device* May 19 16:13:55 look, I've seen youtube videos of N900 running OSX May 19 16:16:20 and I've seen photoshoped "N900 previews" that clearly show a N810 in black May 19 16:16:58 I don't give a flying F* about that "leaked trailer" May 19 16:18:25 for all I can tell it's a null-info about anything, and might even be a hoax May 19 16:19:42 just like plan-b May 19 16:24:28 DocScrutinizer, fair enough, then wait until the confidentiality expires. May 19 16:26:11 will this disclose more *interesting* details? May 19 16:26:31 (not trolling) May 19 16:27:47 the FCC actually gave some good hints, as for example it seems they got a new modem chipset May 19 16:27:48 DocScrutinizer, actual device photos (external and internal) and the user manual. May 19 16:27:56 \o/ May 19 16:28:01 It also assume that Nokia will have something meaningful to say about the device before the confidentiality expires. May 19 16:28:25 indeed May 19 16:30:00 I'm still afraid it's running harmattan bastard and will further contribute to maemo suffocation, while not giving meego-arm any benefit whatsoever May 19 16:30:37 It probably is. May 19 16:30:55 yet another fuckedup DOA OS May 19 16:31:15 this time *really* DOA May 19 16:31:51 the poisoned gift to the FOSS community May 19 16:33:05 and quite likely with blobs for all core apps once again May 19 16:35:16 DOA? May 19 16:35:34 dead on arrival May 19 16:36:25 ah, ty. The more it is dead, the less damage it causes :) May 19 16:37:11 DocScrutinizer, we really don't know anything new about hw features at all. May 19 16:37:30 DocScrutinizer, IMO, there probably will not be any improvement over the N900 May 19 16:38:56 metal frame, or is it just plastics again? May 19 17:00:50 i have limited battery life, no way to recharge, and want to recover data over wifi before it runs out of energy. what can i do to prolong battery life? May 19 17:00:55 (the SIM is out) May 19 17:06:54 DocScrutinizer: well, it just means we'll get started that much sooner on getting real MeeGo up and running. May 19 17:06:56 you can turn it off May 19 17:07:06 But at least we'll have a slightly less shitty kernel to work with. May 19 17:07:25 BCMM, order yourself one of those battery chargers off eBay. May 19 17:07:40 i took it to a shop where they charged it for a pound May 19 17:07:48 it came back only very slightly charged, though May 19 17:11:16 GeneralAntilles: who's supposed to buy a device with a fsckdup OS that's not backward compatible to N900, and not forward compatible to real meego? May 19 17:11:46 * GeneralAntilles shrugs. May 19 17:11:49 I probably will. May 19 17:11:54 Because it's the only option I've got left right now. May 19 17:12:01 GeneralAntilles: probably nobody who's interested in a FOSS device May 19 17:12:55 GeneralAntilles: why not get an iPhone then? May 19 17:13:23 Teehee: http://digitallife.today.com/_news/2011/05/18/6667233-secret-service-interrogates-13-year-old-over-facebook-post May 19 17:13:36 Because it's a useless piece of shit that isn't open at all? May 19 17:13:49 At least with the Nokia you can (probably) load your own OS. May 19 17:14:01 At least they (were) trying to forward open source (in their own fucked up way). May 19 17:14:10 duh, it's as open as that harmattan bastard ever will be May 19 17:14:15 At least there's some possibility of running proper MeeGo in the future. May 19 17:14:18 so what? May 19 17:14:20 DocScrutinizer, bullshit. May 19 17:14:23 Full stop bullshit. May 19 17:14:40 Is there really anything open source on the iPhone? :) May 19 17:14:42 it will probably be capable of running the "real" meego. whether "real" meego will be worth running at all remains to be seen. May 19 17:15:23 and when this will happen, as well May 19 17:15:25 Venemo: :) May 19 17:15:26 even the N900 can run meego, so why the N9(50?) wouldn't May 19 17:15:59 Venemo: exactly, so why the N9(50?)? May 19 17:16:34 DocScrutinizer: better, stronger, faster? May 19 17:16:56 on running the possibly 7 existing apps, yeah May 19 17:16:56 Same reason I'd rather have an i7 over a Core Duo. May 19 17:17:03 * GeneralAntilles shrugs. May 19 17:17:11 Day-to-day I use exactly 4 applications. May 19 17:17:21 (if you don't count SMS/phone as an application) May 19 17:17:22 so get an iphone ;-P May 19 17:18:46 DocScrutinizer: see my point above May 19 17:18:52 the iPhone is painful to use. May 19 17:19:00 DocScrutinizer, what do you mean, "7 existing apps"? May 19 17:19:26 Venemo: which app do you know of that's fit for harmattan bastard? May 19 17:19:36 DocScrutinizer, I must assume that puzzle-master is one of the 7, so which ones are the other 6? May 19 17:20:41 Ovi Maps will probably be better. May 19 17:21:05 Venemo: I must assume then that you're one of those that jump off the maemo ship to develop for a stillborn platform called harmattan meego in the future? May 19 17:22:15 honestly I'd guess you better choose real meego then, if you're planning to leave maemo May 19 17:22:26 DocScrutinizer, you assume wrong. May 19 17:22:40 DocScrutinizer, however, Qt works on Harmattan equally as well as on other platforms. May 19 17:22:58 mhm May 19 17:23:31 I do not intend to leave Maemo, nor do I intend to buy the new device :) May 19 17:23:34 of course, especially the sensor shit, for e.g puzzlemaster's autosliding the tiles option May 19 17:23:53 DocScrutinizer, that shit will probably work better on Harmattan than on MeeGo May 19 17:24:07 maybe, but who knows May 19 17:24:21 DocScrutinizer, at least we don't know if harmattan insists on "upstream" as much as meego. let's hope not. May 19 17:24:39 sure May 19 17:25:45 but I actually don't care, unless Nokia planned to roll out harmattan as a true upgrade to maemo-*, on all devices (well at least on those running fremantle right now) May 19 17:26:37 or it's 100% compatible to either fremantle or true meego - I don't see either May 19 17:29:44 I'm just not interested in another flavour of "linux" contaminated with blobs for core apps, locked to exactly one device to run on, guaranteed to get no updates, and with no migration path to anything more sane, whatever that might be in the end May 19 17:30:14 They need to invent nano-tech self-cleaning glasess. May 19 17:30:22 s/glasess/glasses May 19 17:30:29 aaah, did I mention "not API compatible to anything else"? May 19 17:32:55 you could as well go for bada, at least this one seems to get support and new devices in the future - well, it's at very least not yet declared to never get any May 19 17:33:44 bada looks more like a "featurephone" thing though May 19 17:34:24 I don't care what it looks like, as I'm sure it doesn't look like anything I'd want to use May 19 17:35:38 and I honestly don't get GeneralAntilles' point about FOSS in harmattan, as long as we don't know if it's maybe less FOSS than even maemo May 19 17:35:48 * GeneralAntilles shrugs. May 19 17:35:58 Clearly this isn't worth arguing about until something is announced. May 19 17:36:07 ack May 19 17:38:11 my general objection stands it've been way more sane to keep harmattan a proper upgrade to fremantle, than to cripple it to fubar and uselessness by trying to make it meegoish May 19 17:39:13 meego harmattan -W! T! F! May 19 17:39:16 If only webOS weren't bullshit and portrait. May 19 17:40:07 use SHR ;-D May 19 17:40:43 iirc pre been 2nd device after FR for SHR to get ported to May 19 17:41:28 btw Nokia guys just confirmed today all Symbian devices will be 640x350 (maybe less, but not more) until Symbian dies out May 19 17:41:44 \o/ May 19 17:42:59 DocScrutinizer, yeah, I agree with you May 19 17:43:25 DocScrutinizer, this is why I said, I do not intend to leave Maemo, nor do I intend to buy the new device :) May 19 17:47:23 err, 640x360 May 19 17:47:46 doesn't make THAT much of a diff ;-) May 19 17:50:41 Well - I disagree. May 19 17:51:11 If the size limit is rising at the rate of almost 2 pixels a minute, that's soon going to be compelling. May 19 18:05:59 Arkenoi, they just confirmed why symbian is, and will be forever, crap May 19 18:06:40 * SpeedEvil rather disagrees. May 19 18:06:47 (if it's resokution) May 19 18:07:22 I question most users ability to notice if you use 640*350, or 1280*700 downsampled. May 19 18:08:17 Depends on what you're downsampling, and how. May 19 18:08:35 SpeedEvil, I'm not referring to just the resolution May 19 18:08:39 K May 19 18:09:01 rather the philosophy of symbian devices. May 19 18:09:29 that is, all since q3 2007 May 19 18:09:35 You mean nihilism? May 19 18:09:57 I mean the complete lack of any ability or willingness to evolve May 19 18:10:49 they had a very nice symbian device in 2007, the N95. all of their non-touchscreen phones since then are running the same system May 19 18:11:27 in fact, most of them were just N95 clones with a different exterior look May 19 18:12:22 and they are not letting go of some concepts of their non-touch UI that are useless on touchscreens May 19 18:13:27 at the release of Fremantle, I was hoping that they'll adapt it to all their new devices, but they haven't, despite the fact that it is vastly superior to anything that Symbian could possibly provide May 19 18:14:37 now they release "symbian anna" whose greatest "feature" is redesigned (crappier-looking) icons. May 19 18:14:41 don't you see the irony? May 19 18:17:38 * RST38h is tired of seeing the irony in whatever Nokia is doing May 19 18:17:45 heh May 19 18:24:30 RST38h: hehe May 19 18:26:10 * SpeedEvil wonders when we'll start seeing metallic glass cellphone cases. May 19 18:26:23 (made of metal - not glass - it's amorphous metal) May 19 18:34:35 they say anna has some integrated IM. poorly integrated, they admit it May 19 18:34:50 and it is already available for beta testers, i am going to try :-) May 19 18:35:23 So, you're pro anna? May 19 18:35:53 nope, i am just curious, nokia provided me free e7 so i feel obliged to try :-) May 19 18:36:03 ah May 19 18:37:00 'Ok - I installed meego on it' - what now? May 19 18:37:22 i wish i could! May 19 18:40:31 for the love of god is tyere a way to go back to the older window switching? May 19 18:43:28 Arkanoid: Where is Anna? May 19 18:43:40 Arkanoid: I wanna try too, after all the trouble... May 19 18:47:16 RST38h, they say you may come to Nokia office and ask for it. Elena Orlova promised me to provide further details and contacts. May 19 19:03:07 Macer: uh? May 19 19:03:29 Arkenoi: Ah, interesting May 19 19:04:29 I'm off (@ pub looking for Annas) May 19 19:30:32 faster application manager should be the default May 19 19:33:00 no, it should not May 19 19:41:38 definitely fapman been right choice - for the name May 19 19:49:33 for all I know HAM is open, so patch it to do whatever you like, but don't implement any fapman as an excuse to do nasty thing / forget about mandatory things that HAM takes care of May 19 19:50:20 merlin1991, git reset --hard = return to latest commit right? May 19 19:52:19 MohammadAG: srewed up? ;-) May 19 19:53:11 DocScrutinizer51, nah, just making sure :P May 19 19:53:58 MohammadAG: yes, kindof May 19 19:55:58 (better use 'git stash' for extra safety) May 19 19:59:00 MohammadAG: what do you think of a generic applet (kinda queenbeecon is for widgets)? May 19 19:59:44 DocScrutinizer51, didn't get that :/ May 19 20:02:19 a applet that doesn't ask hal about battery status or sth whatever, instead it has a config file where you till it about menu button name, which command to execute on buttonclick, you tell which cmd to call for getting name of png to display, and (dunno) you tell about how often to update May 19 20:04:04 hmm, how often does a usual applet update? May 19 20:04:52 is it using an internal sleep/wait/whatever, or is it a thread called by HD every now and then? May 19 20:05:53 i.e. must main() quit as fast as possibly, or virtually never? May 19 20:06:08 why polling? there are enough events you can listen for, at worst just menu activate May 19 20:06:32 sure, that's why I ask May 19 20:07:45 never suggested polling, just asking if maybe HD does May 19 20:12:33 /sb claw May 19 20:12:36 yay May 19 20:18:50 DocScrutinizer51, a homescreen applet is just a window/widget with a special flag May 19 20:19:02 it can get a signal whenever the desktop is switched to May 19 20:19:46 we're talking bout bat-applet + friends, in systray? May 19 20:20:13 oh, you meant hildon-status-menu plugins? May 19 20:20:20 they're just GtkWidgets May 19 20:20:21 yep May 19 20:20:49 mhm, whatever that means May 19 20:21:14 you can have any GtkWidget in there May 19 20:21:19 a slider, a button, a label etc May 19 20:21:25 walking, bbiab May 19 20:27:02 MohammadAG: that's for the menu, right, forgot about that (let's assume it's all just buttons for now). I'm talking bout the mini-ison in status area aka systray, where the animated battery icon lives, and the wifi ison that doesn't show signal strength May 19 20:27:38 (what's an ison?? :-o) May 19 20:28:41 I'm thinking of some code that has *nothing* hardcoded, but has a config file to make it do meaningful things. Simplest case: show up / hide May 19 20:29:13 any interpretable language May 19 20:29:28 and you can consider script file to be a config file May 19 20:30:23 you'd give that generic applet a cmdline "/opt/my/whichicon" that either returns "/share/icons/myfoo.png" or "", and accordingly there's either myfoo icon or nuttin in systray May 19 20:31:27 for battery icon the similar /opt/my/whichbat" would return a pointer to a battery status icon acccording to charge state of battery May 19 20:32:05 interpreted vs compiled doesn't matter in this case May 19 20:32:15 you need to killall or watch the config file May 19 20:33:45 MohammadAG51: that's niche considerations. Usual applets don't watch config file or do killalls - battery icon doesn't, signal-strength icon doesn't May 19 20:34:22 actually I think the USB applet uses ionotify May 19 20:35:19 I'm simply suggesting to replace the hardcoded inotify/hal-ipc/sbud-listening/whatever logic, by a simple system() May 19 20:35:50 s/sbud/dbus/. May 19 20:35:57 inotify would work well actually May 19 20:36:25 it only fails on /sys and /proc, which is expected May 19 20:36:41 yes, but you miss the point May 19 20:37:03 you want queen beacon-like stuff in hildon-status-menu May 19 20:37:09 yes! May 19 20:37:24 wasn't there an applet for that btw May 19 20:37:32 quick-launch I think May 19 20:37:33 dunno May 19 20:40:53 let's think of something silly: a lux-meter showing brightness as a bar similar to load applet cpu load - you'd get script mylux.sh that does read the /sys/*/lux, decides which icon is the right one for ambient lux value, and do "echo $righticon; exit". The applet would call mylux.sh and display the icon according to output of that script May 19 20:43:31 rsp display nuttin if the script outputs null string May 19 20:44:00 hmm, and what's the refresh timeout? May 19 20:44:25 that's been my question: how is refresh timeout handled for applets? May 19 20:45:14 g_timeout_add afaik May 19 20:45:22 does the applet code pass a microseconds value back to H-D(?), or is there a sort of wait()/usleep()/whatever inside the code itself May 19 20:45:26 aka polls May 19 20:45:43 ok, so you pass a timeout value to $randomplace May 19 20:45:45 a timer that keeps calling a callback May 19 20:45:46 normal glib actually, not h-d related May 19 20:45:56 mhm May 19 20:46:11 inside applet code? May 19 20:46:15 sec, lemme kill my PC's xchat connection and bring up my bouncer May 19 20:46:21 yeah, it's normal C/Gtk May 19 20:48:16 ok, so let's define it as follows: the applet calls the script, and the script does a sleep 60, then returns the pointer string to the icon to display. The applet immediately calls the script again May 19 20:51:10 so the timer and callback function gets completely replaced by a endless loop calling {icon=system("myapplet.sh); display(icon);} May 19 20:52:07 (pseudocode! you know better than me how to do it right) May 19 20:52:53 MohammadAG: back? May 19 20:54:57 yeah May 19 20:55:32 the timer keeps calling the callback (typically this callback returns a gboolean), when it returns false the loop is broken May 19 20:55:39 MohammadAG_: the applet sleeping would happen completely inside system(), inside the called myapplet.sh script, by either a sleep 60, or a read ok, so let's define it as follows: the applet calls the script, and the script does a sleep 60, then returns the pointer string to the icon to display. The applet immediately calls the script again May 19 20:55:57 so the timer and callback function gets completely replaced by a endless loop calling {icon=system("myapplet.sh); display(icon);} May 19 20:56:08 (pseudocode! you know better than me how to do it right) May 19 20:56:26 you should not block in an applet May 19 20:56:39 that's been my question :-) May 19 20:56:57 ok, callback. I see, I see May 19 20:57:02 lemme think about it May 19 20:57:14 just use a glib timer of 60s May 19 20:57:28 the script would ideally return immediately May 19 20:57:52 one question, why not read a config rather than a script? May 19 20:58:08 you're polling both ways May 19 20:58:15 hmm, fair enough, you initialize the applet with a config file that has the name of the myapplet.sh script, and the timer milliseconds May 19 20:59:10 no, I meant why not have a config file with the image path May 19 20:59:25 (read config) you wouldn't know when the applet's asking for new info to display. So you'd have to do another rather fast poll in a daemon, to keep the config up to date May 19 20:59:25 oh nvm May 19 20:59:32 you want signal strength May 19 21:00:03 btw, if this is only for wifi signal strength use qwerty12's applet May 19 21:00:13 * javispedro reads backlog May 19 21:00:18 it's better the applet calls some executable code that gathers the info in realtime May 19 21:00:34 DocScrutinizer: your config file could have a list of files to read() (and potentially block on those reads) May 19 21:01:04 MohammadAG: nah, it's a generic thing that's zillion times more useful than a hardcoded wifi-signal applet May 19 21:01:27 (your code would not block on read() but would submit the fds to the glib select() call) May 19 21:02:06 javispedro: I don't want to watch files. I want to act on stdout of arbitrary code to execute May 19 21:02:27 but the problem is when to run that executable then? May 19 21:02:43 each time the timer of applet expires May 19 21:02:57 which would be hardcoded? then there's no problem :D May 19 21:03:16 not hardcoded but defined in a config for that applet May 19 21:03:23 nice idea May 19 21:03:53 maybe even returned by a call to "myapplet.sh --refreshtimer=?" May 19 21:05:01 so e.g we could set refreshtimer to 120s for battery discharging, and to 0.2s for batery-charging animation May 19 21:05:13 nah, as I said, use glib timer for wait, not a script block May 19 21:05:32 I didn't mention any scropt block May 19 21:05:32 I bet he says the script would return the number of seconds to sleep May 19 21:05:40 yes May 19 21:05:52 number of milliseconds actually May 19 21:06:08 aha May 19 21:06:13 wouldn't that be in the config file holding the script list? May 19 21:06:19 just make the script emit something like May 19 21:06:24 after all, it should be a constant May 19 21:06:30 and of course it returns those immediately, without any block aka sleep May 19 21:06:36 image=/path/to/icon\ntext=some text if required\ntime to next event=1000 May 19 21:06:56 javispedro: EXACTLY! May 19 21:07:35 the queenbeecon for ststus applets May 19 21:08:17 in rev0.2 we can deal with buttons(/sliders/whatever) in status menu May 19 21:09:09 MohammadAG: (should be constant) really? ;'( May 19 21:09:44 not necessarily afaik (but I am yet to ever make a status bar applet though) May 19 21:09:46 MohammadAG: I'm sure we'll find a way to *occasionally* change the timer's timeout value May 19 21:10:06 (i did make a desktop applet and it is not necessary) May 19 21:10:12 and if we had to reinintialize/retart the whole applet May 19 21:10:36 that can be done by opening the .desktop file and closing it May 19 21:10:52 ok, so be it if that's the only way May 19 21:11:10 again, inotify works fine May 19 21:11:13 profiled uses it May 19 21:11:38 there's no technical problem at all here May 19 21:11:45 I wish someone would hack a Qt status-menu applets solution May 19 21:11:47 but that's actuall for version 0.1.1. Version0.1.0 though doesn't need a changeable timer, just the system() call and a hardcoded maybe 60s May 19 21:11:47 if required you could even spawn a thread May 19 21:12:09 isn't g_spawn() better than system()? May 19 21:12:19 (I'm actually crappy at glib stuff so...) May 19 21:12:32 probably May 19 21:12:36 g_spawn is more glib-y indeed, but it eventually calls system() ;) May 19 21:12:57 that's for you hackers to find the best call May 19 21:13:15 I'm a designer / system architect May 19 21:13:23 * MohammadAG wants Qt applets nao May 19 21:13:48 MohammadAG: well, maybe you could do both ;-) May 19 21:13:51 MohammadAG, what Qt applets? May 19 21:14:02 Venemo, Qt status menu applets May 19 21:14:05 Venemo: the non-existing ones May 19 21:14:28 :) May 19 21:14:35 MohammadAG, you could easily make it happen May 19 21:14:41 I bet a Qt wrapper around that generic-applet stuff is simple May 19 21:15:30 that's btw the beauty and main goal of all my designs: a most generalized API May 19 21:16:18 something bugs me May 19 21:16:26 yust relplace the hardcoded system() by a pointer to a callback function in Qt and done you are May 19 21:16:32 Gtk apps rotate to landscape when the N900 is placed flat May 19 21:16:35 Qt apps don't May 19 21:16:44 QProcess ftw May 19 21:18:57 whoa the n9 thread already has 40 pages more May 19 21:19:14 heh May 19 21:19:33 javispedro: since when? :-P May 19 21:19:39 it will never be released May 19 21:19:49 last time I read it, which was less than 24h ago... May 19 21:20:02 i think it will be released but i can be sure if will be good May 19 21:20:06 hmm, that's not entirely insane ;-D May 19 21:20:23 40p/h, *that* would scare me May 19 21:21:18 it will get released as soon as nobody posting to that thread for 3 days XP May 19 21:21:29 hrhr May 19 21:21:31 along with PR1.5 for the N900. May 19 21:21:49 and final maemo.org ;) May 19 21:22:15 javispedro: you know what infobot says to ~pr1.5 May 19 21:22:37 heh May 19 21:22:44 maybe the N9 comes as "duke nukem forever" edition in 14years May 19 21:23:15 ~pr1.5 May 19 21:23:15 * infobot beats mohammadag with a Nostradamus papercopy 16.7 times. "That's your PR1.5!" May 19 21:23:33 heh May 19 21:26:08 ~pr1.6 May 19 21:26:09 pr1.6 is probably the future man! May 19 21:28:53 ~pr1.7 May 19 21:29:04 meh May 19 21:29:18 ~listkeys pr1 May 19 21:29:20 Factoid search of 'pr1' by key (14): pr1.3.3.7 ;; ~pr1.1.1 #DEL# ;; pr1.1.1 ;; pr1.3 ;; pr1.2 ;; pr1.4 ;; pr1.6 ;; pr1.2 #DEL# ;; netscape-6.00pr1 ;; pr1.3sdk ;; pr1.1 ;; pr1.5 ;; pr1.5 #DEL# ;; pr1.3 #DEL#. May 19 21:30:23 ~factinfo pr1.6 May 19 21:30:23 pr1.6 -- created by kerio at Mon Oct 25 17:44:22 2010 (206 days); it has been requested 2 times, last by MohammadAG, 4m 14s ago. May 19 21:30:36 ~pr1.1.1 May 19 21:30:37 you are here. please wait, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1 May 19 21:32:16 ~botsnack May 19 21:32:17 DocScrutinizer: aw, gee May 19 23:23:41 ~shout May 19 23:23:42 * infobot screams NOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooOOOOoooooOOOOooo!!!1!!11!!! May 19 23:24:27 * DocScrutinizer ponders creating an IRC keep-alive job, pasting ~cookie every 60min May 19 23:24:42 ~cookie May 19 23:24:44 * infobot spins the wheel of knowledge and ponders... usrealmip... you can find the IP address of all U.S. realms and their datacenters at http://www.wowwiki.com/US_Realm_List_By_Datacenter May 19 23:25:51 wtf May 19 23:26:00 infobot forget everything about wow! May 19 23:26:00 merlin1991: i didn't have anything called 'everything about wow!' to forget May 19 23:26:01 oooh, there's life out there May 19 23:26:17 go to sleep ;) May 19 23:34:34 ~yawn May 19 23:34:34 *YAWN* I get *YAWN* tired just thinking of large boxes of unknown substances being poured into nooks and crannies and eaten by little monsters that like to kill fluffy bunnies and oh god I'm tired.. May 19 23:35:02 *I* am not May 19 23:36:00 ~cookie May 19 23:36:01 Hey docscrutinizer, weathercode k26b is Isle Of Shoals (Isle Of Shoals) May 19 23:36:21 ~weather EDDN May 19 23:36:23 Nuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2011.05.19 2320 UTC; Dew Point: 51 F (11 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.06 in. Hg (1018 hPa); Relative Humidity: 87%; Temperature: 55 F (13 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the NW (320 degrees) at 2 MPH (2 KT) May 19 23:36:33 cookies actually work May 19 23:37:53 What arm cpu is the best? May 19 23:38:01 Meaningless noise. May 19 23:38:21 There are ARM CPUs in 4*4mm packages that cost 2 dollars. May 19 23:38:27 For some things, those are best. May 19 23:38:44 I mean for a maemo phone May 19 23:38:57 omap3530 May 19 23:39:08 There is a 720MHz speed grade, that's the best. May 19 23:39:31 Better than the 1,2GHz dualcore in SGSII? May 19 23:39:36 You can also get 512M RAM and flash memory chips to attach on top of it. May 19 23:39:44 Which would make it the best of the best. May 19 23:39:54 lolcat: There is only one CPU for a maemo phone. May 19 23:39:55 Why not 1gb? May 19 23:40:03 Any other would be upgrades by wierd users. May 19 23:40:10 SpeedEvil: But what would be better? May 19 23:40:13 lolcat: Because you cannot get parts that will fit. May 19 23:40:44 In principle, you could upgrade the n900 'drop in' - with a new processor that is 20% faster, and double the RAM. May 19 23:40:50 In practice, this will be tricky. May 19 23:41:03 SpeedEvil: I didn't say for N900, I mean for a brand new Maemo 6 phone May 19 23:41:15 There will be no maemo 6 phone. May 19 23:41:18 It's meego. May 19 23:41:29 Harmattan May 19 23:41:34 Or harmattan May 19 23:41:50 It's a pretty meaningless question, anyway. May 19 23:41:58 The CPU was chosen a large slice of a year ago. May 19 23:42:11 Why? I want to know the best possible thing to hope for May 19 23:42:44 xeon. May 19 23:42:58 Meego runs on arm... May 19 23:43:09 It could trivially be recompiled for Xeon. May 19 23:44:17 A xeon cpu is bigger than the phone -.- May 19 23:44:26 SpeedEvil: wut? I guess it's been chosen like 2 years ago, if you're talking about the CPU in this critter: http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277333 May 19 23:44:43 2 is a very large slice of 1. May 19 23:44:57 Think of a pizza - made into a spiral. May 19 23:45:10 yay May 19 23:45:13 XD May 19 23:45:14 2 is simply 2 turns. May 19 23:45:30 SpeedEvil: you make my day :-D May 19 23:46:15 DocScrutinizer: Is it dual core? May 19 23:46:35 DocScrutinizer: supposedly part of the delay was due to a hardware change. May 19 23:46:53 GeneralAntilles: CPU change? May 19 23:47:12 Dunno May 19 23:47:14 Seems possible. May 19 23:47:19 OMAP3630 is a little dated these days. May 19 23:47:35 GeneralAntilles: sure, 'simple' hw changes like getting 802.11n instead of abg May 19 23:48:12 a change of CPU *architecture* is an absolutely nontrivial thing May 19 23:48:44 Changing speed-grades of compatible parts is quite plausible - but that only goes so far. May 19 23:49:11 differen mechanical kbd layout (as you can see by watching enter key of the link above compared to that suspicious 'leaked promo' May 19 23:49:41 even larger RAM is possible, maybe even changing LCD->OLED May 19 23:49:53 but definitely not change of CPU architecture May 19 23:50:14 DocScrutinizer: It is amolead May 19 23:50:31 prolly May 19 23:51:11 otherwise they wouldn't have opted for that silly silly damn stupid silly white indicator LED May 19 23:51:57 oh, have I mentioned it's utterly silly? May 19 23:53:07 Well, OMAP4 wouldn't be out of the question. May 19 23:53:08 abysmal product requirement spec May 19 23:53:10 N9? or amolead? May 19 23:53:48 lolcat: the white (well monocolor anyway) indicator LED May 19 23:54:03 No idea what that means... May 19 23:54:17 it's not like we don't know anything about RM-680(?) May 19 23:54:21 But I am sure it won't be the biggest drawback of the N9 May 19 23:54:49 nah, the biggest shortcoming is the friggin bullshit c-ts May 19 23:55:17 aka cocaine dispenser May 19 23:56:33 c-ts = cocaine spreader table (nobody knows who swapped the chars in acronym) May 19 23:57:51 But cocain is a sollution if you mix it with water May 19 23:58:19 so what? May 19 23:58:40 Cocaine is a suspension if you mix with water. May 19 23:58:47 if elop did some we migth have had 10 maemo devices now May 19 23:59:21 Elop is just the symptom May 19 23:59:27 Indeed. May 19 23:59:28 Nokia board is the problem. May 19 23:59:35 I dunno, always thought you're crushing and spreading it with your credit card on the c-ts and then snort it with a 100$ note May 19 23:59:43 Things broke shortly before meego. May 20 00:00:53 SpeedEvil: sounds about right May 20 00:01:20 When did the ovi wierdness start happening - companies getting discoruaged from publishing. May 20 00:02:05 about the time when Nokia thought they have to become a content provider now, rather than a hw manufacturer May 20 00:02:30 * SpeedEvil wishes 802.11g supported client-client May 20 00:02:52 glaring in envy at iStore May 20 00:04:13 then they realized you can't marry iStore with GPL and FOSS like they planned to do May 20 00:05:51 right about that time somebody of Nokia board or 1 step down in hierarchy started to plan cherry and shove it down nokia maemo devels' throat May 20 00:06:28 marriage with yahoo... May 20 00:06:57 damn, there's something rotten inside Nokia May 20 00:07:18 Why do surveys about internet speeds still have lists that look like: "Modem, ISDN, DSL, DSL, T1, DSL/Cable, LAN" May 20 00:07:23 and top out at 10Mbps May 20 00:08:05 because of the authors of those webpages are technical illiterates May 20 00:08:06 because these are actualy at say, Etiopia.. May 20 00:08:12 actual* May 20 00:09:10 and LAN can be 1Gbps :) May 20 00:09:51 10 May 20 00:10:12 hello all May 20 00:10:16 SpeedEvil 10? May 20 00:10:21 well, and FDDI / random other fibreoptics can go up to Tbps, and are actually offered by some telcos May 20 00:10:23 10Gbps May 20 00:10:38 well who has 10Gbps lan at home? :D May 20 00:11:55 but those fibreoptics internet services are usually not meant for private customers, more for business May 20 00:12:57 used 10G cards seem to be going for $120 or so May 20 00:13:21 meh, the cables are way too expensive May 20 00:15:02 and the switch May 20 00:15:08 i dont even want to know :) May 20 00:17:04 oh, cat5a actually allows 10GBASE-T up to 50m May 20 00:21:51 ...if you never run two cables next to each other anywhere May 20 01:09:17 I have a switch that allows 10gbps fibre optics May 20 01:26:40 congrats? May 20 02:25:36 Is it just me or is maemo alot slower than the original promo video of n900. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri May 20 03:00:00 2011