**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 07 02:59:57 2011 Jun 07 03:02:41 you considered OVERvoltage? Jun 07 03:03:01 has same effect Jun 07 03:03:24 ? Jun 07 03:06:58 wow .. i phoned 7 times for 99 cent this month :P Jun 07 03:09:09 cehteh: voltage spikes or overvoltage in general will make N900 stop charging Jun 07 03:09:32 more plausible than load spikes Jun 07 03:10:20 well as i saied, when using this battery stationary then it charges fine, just with the n900 battery almost empty and while biking it didnt worked reliable Jun 07 03:10:31 you might be able to log some of the state in bq24150 to see what's up Jun 07 03:10:42 i also disabled the dynamo charging so only the external battery provided power Jun 07 03:11:01 and when i put the phone in offline mode it seemed to be little better Jun 07 03:11:12 yeah i try that next tome Jun 07 03:11:13 time Jun 07 03:11:22 all not really concludent Jun 07 03:11:41 how much overvoltage does the n900 accept? 5.2V? 5.5V? Jun 07 03:12:20 i could add a zener diode for protection .. but that would mean that the DCDC is somewhat broken and i doubt that, then it wont work stationary Jun 07 03:12:30 while sleep 1; do i2cget $statusregister; done >logfile Jun 07 03:12:43 $statusregister is? Jun 07 03:12:44 at least 6V Jun 07 03:13:17 ./bq27200.sh 1 >logfile Jun 07 03:13:22 I'm on the road, so postpone that for later Jun 07 03:13:47 ok well i leave soon, take a nap .. its not that urgend Jun 07 03:13:51 cehteh: 27200 won't tell much Jun 07 03:14:15 is the input voltage available by i2c? Jun 07 03:14:50 you need 24150, see my before latest post on USBhostmode beta tmo thread Jun 07 03:15:07 no, but a good/bad IIRC Jun 07 03:15:30 hey i have no clues about this :) Jun 07 03:15:59 the error bits are identical for charge and boost Jun 07 03:18:02 * cehteh needs a lsi2c :P Jun 07 03:18:53 Interesting. Jun 07 03:19:08 Supply voltage is 4V-6.3V - when it should 'always charge' Jun 07 03:19:14 Outside these ranges, it trips off. Jun 07 03:19:29 thats quite a range Jun 07 03:19:32 Outside the range -0.7 to 7V for a few seconds, it may explode. Jun 07 03:19:43 :) Jun 07 03:20:03 I don't see that it's likely to charge fully with vbus at 4V though Jun 07 03:20:24 err - at -0.7 to 7V it's supposed to not be immediately damaged - ratehr. Jun 07 03:20:24 stepup? Jun 07 03:20:29 Exceeding that will do bad stuff Jun 07 03:22:00 without shortened data pins it doesnt charge at all .. i hoped that it charges at least at the minimum current the usb spec allows (80ma or so?) Jun 07 03:22:14 maximum unacknowledged power Jun 07 03:22:55 well in most cases when the device is running on my bike (gps and display on) it draws more than 80ma Jun 07 03:28:48 cehteh: It depends - with the battery voltage under s specified threshold, and BME dead, it will charge with the orange light on constnatly Jun 07 03:29:20 Also - a quick read of the example schematic and datasheet imply that it's not going to charge the battery to over the vbus - ever. Jun 07 03:29:23 It can't. Jun 07 03:29:30 well i want to use the device and dont want a black brick on the handlebar Jun 07 03:31:23 well on my next bike trip i will investigate the case Jun 07 03:31:34 Charges the battery to 3.54V max Jun 07 03:31:50 I'd look at jrbme Jun 07 03:32:07 work out how to set maximum input current to 500mA or something Jun 07 03:32:26 This will usually charge the device Jun 07 03:46:27 Max Load Current Registers (MLIL/MLIH) — Address 0x1E/0x1F Jun 07 03:46:51 err wrong Jun 07 03:48:06 anyways .. such a nice capable chip .. and nokia fucked it up Jun 07 03:49:07 uh? Jun 07 03:50:44 cehteh: SpeedEvil: yes, zhe bq24150 does no step-up for charging Jun 07 03:52:02 cehteh: I don't see how Nokia "fsckd it up" other than inventing a useless oversofisticated buggy controller daemon called BME Jun 07 03:52:23 the bq24150 is the charger chip in the n900? and bq27200 is the battery gauge only? Jun 07 03:53:14 yes Jun 07 03:54:01 3.54V is more than enough to boot a bootloadrr and hand over charging though :P Jun 07 03:54:05 which is the idea of it Jun 07 03:54:16 Table 6. Control Register (READ/WRITE) Jun 07 03:54:16 Memory Location: 01, Reset State: 0011 0000 (30H) Jun 07 03:54:33 .. ok looks like that, first 2 bits set charge current Jun 07 03:54:34 ShadowJK: sure, if there's anything to handle charging X-P Jun 07 03:55:04 but .. i'd expect i cant poke into that and bme agrees with me Jun 07 03:55:19 cehteh: get ShadowJK 's charger skript aka the *real* jrbme Jun 07 03:55:20 btw charge21.sh logs errors from bq24150 in MyDocs/charge.log Jun 07 03:55:39 ShadowJK: where is your script? Jun 07 03:56:01 And, bme does do some sort of incremental current backoff Jun 07 03:56:21 it doesn't according to all my tracing Jun 07 03:56:23 If it sees a bad source you mean? Jun 07 03:56:26 http://enivax.net/jk/n900/charge21.sh maybe Jun 07 03:56:31 SpeedEvil, yeah Jun 07 03:56:37 ooh that Jun 07 03:56:43 ShadowJK: 404 Jun 07 03:56:46 more nifty than I thopught Jun 07 03:57:04 http://enivax.net/jk/n900/charge21.sh.txt google says :) Jun 07 03:57:43 yeah, and I think it should auto-rename to charge21 on first invocation ;-P Jun 07 03:58:08 needs i2c-tools Jun 07 03:58:19 (extras-devel) Jun 07 03:58:24 and bme not running Jun 07 03:58:24 you can get those via apt-get though Jun 07 03:58:55 hehe Jun 07 03:59:08 the warning? Jun 07 04:00:10 yeah, though it's basically correct, I always found they exaggerate a bit on warning about i2ctools can eat your childs and drill holes into your skull Jun 07 04:01:18 while this may be appropriate in general, I think on N900 there's rather little you really could *accidentally* fsck up Jun 07 04:01:24 i have i2ctools installed anyways Jun 07 04:01:37 where to do they install for you? Jun 07 04:01:59 ls -l `which i2cget` Jun 07 04:02:17 /usr/sbin/i2cget Jun 07 04:02:27 :nod: thnx Jun 07 04:02:30 no optified .. dont care Jun 07 04:02:50 meh, there's other crap that needs optification URGENTLY Jun 07 04:03:05 is there a libi2c? .. maybe i turn this script into a C daemon .. when i find some time Jun 07 04:03:12 yes Jun 07 04:03:15 * DocScrutinizer mumbles swearwords about locales-cache Jun 07 04:03:39 cehteh: useless effort really Jun 07 04:03:47 well actually optification is bullshit .. should be normal installation and bind mounts in the first place Jun 07 04:03:58 i am just looking at the script Jun 07 04:04:13 cehteh: we all know that, even infobot Jun 07 04:04:18 i2c-devel or something. It's basically all headers, not much of a lib Jun 07 04:04:46 * ShadowJK likes busybox sh though, can edit it on the go and doesn't need recompile :-) Jun 07 04:05:10 yeah i like sh for prototyping too Jun 07 04:05:27 cehteh: if you really want to do sth useful about it, go for a cmdline replacement for hal-addon-bme to tell hal about battery status from scripts Jun 07 04:05:40 didnt bme petting the watchdog? Jun 07 04:06:07 indeed, as does charger Jun 07 04:06:16 Missing stuff: error recovery, retry with lower charge rate, event-driven instead of polling Jun 07 04:06:17 that'S the whole purpose of the critter Jun 07 04:06:34 and managing usb crap Jun 07 04:06:59 ShadowJK: yes Jun 07 04:07:06 event driven - another useful domain to hack: give us an open replacement for ke-recv Jun 07 04:07:10 well currently i have no time Jun 07 04:07:29 and the chip behaves differently from what one would think after reading the datasheet :D Jun 07 04:07:46 depends on what you think Jun 07 04:07:48 :-P Jun 07 04:08:04 I always found it in line with my expectations Jun 07 04:09:06 of course jmping a few of the statemachine states can leave you puzzled Jun 07 04:09:51 for hw there's no such thing as "I did this almost same time" Jun 07 04:09:59 I'm not sure if the side effect of reading status register was in datasheet :P Jun 07 04:10:11 set your registers *first* - then enable their usage Jun 07 04:10:29 there's no such thing according to my observations Jun 07 04:10:58 reading status register is side effect free for me Jun 07 04:12:03 I've managed to confuse bme by reading status register in a loop, because then it's a race between my loop and bme who will see the real status first Jun 07 04:12:21 but it's quite easy to trigger side effects by the way and timing you read Jun 07 04:12:51 I did eactly this and it worked flawlessly Jun 07 04:13:06 iirc Jun 07 04:13:28 at least bme for sure didn't complain or act up Jun 07 04:13:32 Normally nothing happens where it would matter, because bme mostly looks at gaia vbus Jun 07 04:14:22 hell, bme shouldn't look for any vbus Jun 07 04:14:49 vbus doesn't need polling Jun 07 04:14:55 there's simply no need to 'look at vbus' Jun 07 04:15:24 24150 will tell bme all about vbus status Jun 07 04:15:35 it's how bme reacts faster than 15s on charger removed :P Jun 07 04:15:46 or inserted Jun 07 04:15:56 and of course kevents will tell ke-recv and bme about vbus applied Jun 07 04:17:10 * DocScrutinizer curses the lack of any general purpose kevents-monitor cmdline tool similar to dbus-monitor Jun 07 04:17:36 So undervoltage big enough to make bq24150 upset and reset to defaults, but not so big to make gaia vbus drop, grab error from bq24150 before bme, bme sees normal status next check, bq24150 is left in post-reset configuration ;p Jun 07 04:17:50 there's udev-admin but that's just *a teeny bit* off topic Jun 07 04:18:52 that's your way to tell the story - I'm still highly doubtfull about the reset-on-read thing of status Jun 07 04:19:19 clear on read Jun 07 04:19:27 not here Jun 07 04:19:56 ok .. poking in i2c registers while bme is runnin doesnt work, yeah i didnt expected that Jun 07 04:20:12 could've toldya Jun 07 04:20:18 yes yes Jun 07 04:20:29 you shouldn't do such things ;-) Jun 07 04:20:31 I can get 9 hour old error out of it too, the triggering cause being long gone too :P Jun 07 04:20:31 i hoped bme looked away this time :P Jun 07 04:21:06 bme reprograms all registers every 15s or so Jun 07 04:21:14 almost Jun 07 04:21:23 prolly faster Jun 07 04:21:59 bme totally has b24250 on strings, not allowing it to do the right thing Jun 07 04:22:27 the bme devels didn't understand there's a cpu inside the chip that does all that for them Jun 07 04:22:40 yeah Jun 07 04:22:54 Once I changed charge rate after bme started charge, and bme didn't change it at all until next unplug/plug Jun 07 04:22:56 the reimplemented a punchcard reader as known from N8x0 on a cray Jun 07 04:23:55 ShadowJK: I'm not sure which registers are under supervision of bme, maybe rate isn't Jun 07 04:24:17 I got logs of *all* i2c traffic Jun 07 04:24:32 I've never actually seen bme change parameters except as a result of exceptions Jun 07 04:24:37 need lots of aspirin and beer to read it Jun 07 04:25:21 whatever, you definitely don't want to mess with bme Jun 07 04:25:57 cehteh: ShadowJK 's script is nice and clean and commented, just edit the max-current setting Jun 07 04:26:09 yes Jun 07 04:26:26 though I honestly think you better should investigate rather than fixing a hypothetical case Jun 07 04:26:32 i likely improve it a bit but not now .. Jun 07 04:26:58 read max current from some /tmp file so one can change that on the fly, possibly with some gui Jun 07 04:27:15 *cough* Jun 07 04:27:29 (queen beecon..) Jun 07 04:27:34 *cough* Jun 07 04:27:35 *cough* Jun 07 04:27:38 haha Jun 07 04:27:51 a) not tmp Jun 07 04:27:59 b) use pipes Jun 07 04:28:03 then people will set it to 1250 and meltdown their phones :) Jun 07 04:28:07 c) use sigusr1 Jun 07 04:28:08 nah Jun 07 04:28:12 thats impossible Jun 07 04:28:37 and of course safeguard it, just allow to lower the current not increase Jun 07 04:28:38 pipes are almost unusable for that from sh, and signals aren't much better Jun 07 04:29:01 * ShadowJK only uses 1250 for hotswap now Jun 07 04:29:38 1250 will melt the chip on extended time spans? Jun 07 04:30:15 * cehteh wants some gui button "i am on my bike, dont charge more than 500ma Jun 07 04:30:34 Also the battery cell is only rated for 925mA charge iirc Jun 07 04:31:15 Most cells I've seen ar rated for 1C charge Jun 07 04:31:38 cehteh: out of curiosity, what are you trying to accomplish? Jun 07 04:31:57 Most high capacity ones I've seen are rated for less Jun 07 04:32:46 cehteh, you know, my tekkeon doesn't make bme or bq24150 freak out despite its current capability dropping to less than 500mA :P Jun 07 04:32:47 damn reconnects Jun 07 04:32:54 what's impossible? Jun 07 04:32:54 wblaze: i have a bike dynamo charger / battery and it sometimes doesnt charge, presumely because of voltage drops, so i'd like to try to limit the charge current to a lower level Jun 07 04:32:59 he's superman and I'm the siversurfer, nothing is impossible Jun 07 04:33:02 and for maemo and N900, everything can happen today or tomorrow Jun 07 04:33:05 ;-P Jun 07 04:33:08 seen http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1023402&postcount=821 ?? Jun 07 04:33:11 esp the left-over comment header in the script... Jun 07 04:33:56 anyways at home i almost always charging at my usb-hub too, the wallcharger is in the sleeping room Jun 07 04:34:15 cehteh: ShadowJK: esp when VBUS too low, I think N900 has another message to user than "can not charge" Jun 07 04:34:38 Also - VBUS overvoltage can be benign if the voltage is in the range 6.3-7. (but...) Jun 07 04:34:41 cehteh: neat Jun 07 04:34:50 "Akku wird nicht geladen" iirc Jun 07 04:35:09 I lowered VBUS to sth like 3.5V and charging actually didn't happen, still N900 *signalled* charging is good Jun 07 04:35:10 thats what i get Jun 07 04:36:10 cehteh: better investigate instead of headless "fixing" an unclear issue Jun 07 04:36:14 DocScrutinizer: for a DCDC controlled input it shouldnt do overvoltage .. and i already saied, if i use that startionary to charge it doesnt happen Jun 07 04:36:32 so what? Jun 07 04:36:34 DocScrutinizer: i dont have the equipment to investigate this properly Jun 07 04:36:55 next DMM on the handlebar :) Jun 07 04:37:03 this only means you're short of ideas. Your explanation is rether a bit more unlikely to be correct than overvoltage is Jun 07 04:37:06 better a logging one (i dont have) Jun 07 04:37:15 DocScrutinizer, iirc that happens when D+/D- still short, voltage drops low enough to trip 24150, but still high enough for 'vbus' to read as 1 on gaia Jun 07 04:37:35 possible Jun 07 04:37:57 but then how comes charging commences when voltage goes up again? Jun 07 04:38:11 if bq24150 got reset, this can't happen Jun 07 04:38:14 hence my first idea to buffer it with some caps .. might or might not help but costs 50 cents, and if it works i am happy Jun 07 04:38:45 you can try this, but you'd need like 100mF/10V Jun 07 04:38:59 well, no problem nowadays Jun 07 04:39:06 not even lowESR Jun 07 04:39:21 hehe .. 6V should be enough or? :) Jun 07 04:39:28 who needs a safety marigin Jun 07 04:39:29 no way Jun 07 04:39:53 those are always best case volzages Jun 07 04:39:58 ok Jun 07 04:40:31 I've *never* seen a 6V circuit equipped with 6.3V Cs Jun 07 04:40:44 well 100mF are bit much :) .. i was thinking about 4700µ thats easily doable .. and a 47µ tantal Jun 07 04:40:45 rarely ever a 5V circuit Jun 07 04:41:02 but yes this is guesswork .. i dont have the equipment to test Jun 07 04:41:11 forget the tantal, use a 1uF foil Jun 07 04:41:56 1µ foil is much biggier, isnt it? Jun 07 04:42:17 without equipment and with no desire to write proper testing software, your approach probably is the next sane thing to do Jun 07 04:42:30 use 100nF then Jun 07 04:42:43 tantal are mostly worthless Jun 07 04:42:52 for this purpose Jun 07 04:43:19 * ShadowJK did wonder why people want to stick tantal everywhere Jun 07 04:43:28 no idea Jun 07 04:43:28 dont you have a regulated power supply and can simulate undervoltage? Jun 07 04:43:41 maybe with some resistor in series Jun 07 04:43:42 I have Jun 07 04:43:46 and I did Jun 07 04:43:52 as I said above Jun 07 04:44:22 blah Jun 07 04:44:22 http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=565-2601-ND Jun 07 04:44:28 ShadowJK: the nicest thing about tantals is that when they blow up, they explode multiple times Jun 07 04:44:30 One of these caps, maybe Jun 07 04:44:43 Possibly two Jun 07 04:44:48 My energizer 2 * AA "emergency charger" is happier with a cap on the input Jun 07 04:45:15 my g2 is srewesc Jun 07 04:45:24 looks huge :) Jun 07 04:45:31 blah Jun 07 04:45:47 honestly, it's really easy to build a electronic "blowfuse" that triggers and holds on 6.5V, and another one that resets on <4.5V Jun 07 04:46:19 it is starting to drive me nuts Jun 07 04:46:46 Macer: pleased to hear :-P Jun 07 04:46:51 haha Jun 07 04:46:57 itsucks Jun 07 04:47:16 ok, hear hear! Macer suggests to stay on N900 Jun 07 04:47:39 the sensor for the "trackball" is broken Jun 07 04:48:05 now I'm not sure we need to know details Jun 07 04:48:08 ;-D Jun 07 04:48:59 unless we'll learn from them about general "this sucks, avoid" lessons for particular hw components and techniques Jun 07 04:49:12 yeah Jun 07 04:49:26 http://www.reichelt.de/Becher-Elkos/BE-100-000-16/index.html?;ACTION=3;LA=2;ARTICLE=5383;GROUPID=3146;SID=10TU6VC38AAAIAACUNLgk08edb0187f320c5739196d5597ae81f8 Jun 07 04:49:32 ok thats not 50 cent :P Jun 07 04:49:34 htc makes some pretty flimsy gear Jun 07 04:49:45 so, if anything, we learn "trackballs on mobile phones suck" Jun 07 04:50:08 we learn "htc makes flimsy gear" Jun 07 04:50:13 :) Jun 07 04:50:21 their g1 trackball wasn't too bad Jun 07 04:50:26 isn't it like upside down optical mouse? Jun 07 04:50:32 yes Jun 07 04:50:42 or does it have actual ball? Jun 07 04:50:46 now this reduces the value of your previous lesson Jun 07 04:51:09 * ShadowJK wishes someone made bluetooth trackball Jun 07 04:51:15 ShadowJK: the reverted optical mouse is also in Samsung omnia Jun 07 04:51:33 ShadowJK: g1 had a ball. g2 has the optical mouse Jun 07 04:51:45 it's kinda nice and sturdy, but not the HID for me Jun 07 04:52:07 honestly nokia makes the most solid stuff i've ever used Jun 07 04:52:14 too bad their future products are going to suck :) Jun 07 04:52:28 * ShadowJK has a fullsize logitech wireless optical trackball on his desk Jun 07 04:52:30 I hate HIDs that have no direct relation between position of your finger(s) and cursor pos Jun 07 04:52:44 equally bad for me Jun 07 04:52:46 optical as in, there are optical sensors detecting the ball spinning Jun 07 04:53:00 I know these, hate them too Jun 07 04:53:20 ShadowJK: i think the g1 was analog Jun 07 04:53:36 last tzime I bitched about it, I called trackball F' and trackpoint F'' Jun 07 04:53:39 small spinning gears? :) idk Jun 07 04:53:56 while mouse and touchscreen and tablet/pad are F Jun 07 04:54:03 I love trackpoint :( Jun 07 04:54:39 n900 seems to get along just fine without a trackball type addition Jun 07 04:54:40 I suggest you get a mosue driver with cursor innertia then, even more cute Jun 07 04:55:22 accelerate cursor, whatch it fly, then decelerate it, using your trackpoint Jun 07 04:55:31 I like my trackpoint. Jun 07 04:55:52 trackball would be nice on symbian, as symbian makes scrolling and selecting stuff difficult Jun 07 04:56:23 "would have been" Jun 07 04:56:24 heh Jun 07 04:56:37 as long as it isn'z a return-to-origin type of control for cursor pos, you can take your trackpoint and do ****` with it Jun 07 04:56:56 let's go back to using paddles Jun 07 04:57:02 yeah Jun 07 04:57:04 hahaha Jun 07 04:57:18 oh, n900 with a paddle would rock Jun 07 04:57:19 etch-a-sketch style? Jun 07 04:57:26 yeah Jun 07 04:57:48 miniture mobile 2600 emulator Jun 07 04:57:49 honestly, moving cursor with a trackpoint is like driving autoscooter with a remote control Jun 07 04:58:03 bonus points to whomever can make it go exactly 45 degrees Jun 07 04:58:31 bonus points for anybody writing a single word with trackpoint Jun 07 04:58:50 no block letters Jun 07 04:58:58 DocScrutinizer: as in graphic design? Jun 07 04:59:04 yes Jun 07 04:59:10 I have done it Jun 07 04:59:26 aucks, but workable in a pinch Jun 07 04:59:32 n8 Jun 07 04:59:38 damn, you misz be starfighter pilot in your daytime job Jun 07 04:59:49 must* Jun 07 05:00:04 glorified monitoring app Jun 07 05:00:06 lol Jun 07 05:01:10 then, to make game more funny, do the same writing with trackpoint while your eyes closed Jun 07 05:01:44 you bet I win with touchpad or tablet or mouse or touchscreen Jun 07 05:01:57 never had an occasion to need that particular skill Jun 07 05:02:15 it's not a skill, it's an idealized test bed Jun 07 05:02:23 I never said it was superior, just that I like it Jun 07 05:02:34 it's a fringe case to show limitations Jun 07 05:03:47 I don't know how this got to be an argument on merit Jun 07 05:03:56 otoh a trackpoint might be great for exact cursor *positioning* when in a really limited space environment, like a shaking airplane, economy class seat Jun 07 05:04:47 thats close enough to the reason I needed it for graphic design Jun 07 05:05:01 on speed of actions you're definitely better with direct-movement-projection HIDs like mice Jun 07 05:05:42 well, all depends on your usage patterns and preferences Jun 07 05:05:53 no point in arguing about it :-D Jun 07 05:06:23 * ShadowJK should try use two sticks Jun 07 05:06:40 Speaking personally. Jun 07 05:06:53 I have a keyboard with integrated trackpoint and touchpad. Jun 07 05:06:59 I never ever use the touchpad. Jun 07 05:07:19 I also hate the touchpad of my laptop Jun 07 05:07:29 always using a normal mouse instead Jun 07 05:07:43 SpeedEvil: I was the same way until I started finding it hard to find a system with a trackpoint Jun 07 05:08:08 then I started paying attention to the touchpad Jun 07 05:08:10 touchpad usually is closer to a trackball than to a mouse Jun 07 05:08:12 I'm currently using a external keyboard. Jun 07 05:08:26 IBM spacesaver (PS/2) Jun 07 05:08:38 It also comes in USB, but secondhand PS2 was cheapr Jun 07 05:08:39 * DocScrutinizer too ;'( >:-( Jun 07 05:09:05 see my ovi recent upload Jun 07 05:09:08 I'm currently using my n900 keyboard while sitting next to a full size keyboard Jun 07 05:09:25 I think we established I do things the hard way Jun 07 05:09:27 WHAT a PILE OF plastic SHIT this kbd is Jun 07 05:09:28 heh Jun 07 05:09:45 I'm lying down, keyboard on lap, under blankets, eyes closed. Jun 07 05:09:58 5$ kbd Jun 07 05:10:32 aah, you got espeak connected to xchat finally, SpeedEvil ? Jun 07 05:10:52 No, I open my eyes some of the time. Jun 07 05:10:58 hehe Jun 07 05:11:48 lol Jun 07 05:11:57 I could send you a .wav collection with the ~350 words I need to write on IRC, so you could get me with original voice ;-P Jun 07 05:13:01 * DocScrutinizer includes a *BURP*, recirded close to mic Jun 07 05:15:32 ShadowJK: I'll do further tests to learn I've been wrong, or to defend bq24150's innocence :-D Jun 07 05:15:48 easy, I just need an additional line in my vboost script Jun 07 05:18:30 I have no data on vboost behaviour :-) Jun 07 05:18:44 if status actually resets on read, I have to reread and comment on the datasheet somewhere Jun 07 05:19:26 now I really hope behaviour of status readout is consistent between boost and charge mode Jun 07 05:19:31 :-S Jun 07 05:20:16 Well imagine what would happen with intermittent errors if the status wasn't stored and held until readout :-) Jun 07 05:20:40 hell the status shouldn't get teset on read!! Jun 07 05:21:28 at least I'd think the datasheet should state damn *clearly* WHEN it gets reset Jun 07 05:22:34 iirc the state diagram kinda implies undefined behaviour unless you switch charge/boost off and reconfigure after any exception or error :-) Jun 07 05:24:09 Originally I only noticed because I had a status readout at start of loop, and at the end of loop, and wondered why it would always be error on one line and 0x10 on the next :-) Jun 07 05:36:59 ShadowJK: you're definitely right - >> Fault condition is cleared by POR and fault status bits can only be updated after the status bits are read out by the host.<< is pretty clear Jun 07 05:41:46 also for all interested parties: >> USB Friendly Boot-Up Sequence At power on reset (POR) of VBUS, if the battery voltage is above the weak battery threshold, V(LOWV), bq24150 operates in a mode dictated by the I2C control registers. If the battery voltage is below V(LOWV) and the host control through I2C interface is lost (32 minute mode), the bq24150 resets all I2C registers with default values and enable the charger with an input current Jun 07 05:41:48 limit dictated by the OTG pin voltage level until the host programs the I2C registers. During this period, the input current limit is 100 mA when the voltage level of OTG pin is low; while the input current limit is 500 mA when the voltage level of OTG pin is high. This feature can revive the deeply discharged cell. The charge process continues even the battery is charged to the regulation voltage [3.54V, 32minutes max]<< Jun 07 05:43:48 in short: without sw-control the charger chip will charge bat to max 3,54V, for a max of 32min, at a current of 100mA from PC and 500mA from wallcharger Jun 07 05:44:04 during this time the LED shows steady yellow Jun 07 05:44:16 ~flatbat-recover Jun 07 05:44:21 ~flatbatrecover Jun 07 05:44:21 Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover Jun 07 05:46:43 also check what happens on 32m timer expiration Jun 07 05:46:59 cehteh: you can select input current from 100/500/unlimited Jun 07 05:47:19 800 too Jun 07 05:47:37 hmm yep Jun 07 05:47:52 what happens on 32min expiry? Jun 07 05:48:25 i have a vague memory of the state diagram going back to the beginning Jun 07 05:48:54 LOL Jun 07 05:48:58 after the 32-second timer is reset. If the 32-second timer expires, the charge is terminated and charge Jun 07 05:49:00 parameters are reset to default values. Then the 32-minute timer starts and the charge resumes. Jun 07 05:49:14 oops, nope Jun 07 05:50:15 according to state diagram it enters "TIMER FAULT" Jun 07 05:50:30 what happens after that? Jun 07 05:50:41 on any fault it should stop all charging, no? Jun 07 05:51:13 iirc it enters fault, no charging, 32s timer, resets on timer expiry Jun 07 05:51:29 back to charging? Jun 07 05:51:35 wut? Jun 07 05:51:47 32s timer only starts when I2C activity Jun 07 05:52:22 hm Jun 07 05:53:14 good morning Jun 07 05:53:27 * ShadowJK sleeps Jun 07 05:53:53 morning Termana Jun 07 05:54:08 cehteh: The bq24150/1 provides a built-in input over-voltage protection to protect the device and other components against damages if the input voltage (Voltage from VBUS to PGND) goes too high. When an input overvoltage condition is detected, bq24150/1 turns off the PWM converter, sets fault status bits, and sends out fault pulse in STAT pin. Once VBUS drops below the input overvoltage exit threshold, the fault is cleared and charge Jun 07 05:54:10 process resumes. Jun 07 06:08:41 ShadowJK: in fact on 32min expiry the chip enters charge configure mode, sets /CE=1 and stops charging, and waits for /CE=0, wich aiui happens on POR only Jun 07 06:08:51 or on I2C-reset of course Jun 07 06:10:41 DocScrutinizer: I will say I don't think BME monitors that overvoltage fault pin Jun 07 06:10:59 I ended up sending 12V into it, and got absolutely no message other than "charging" Jun 07 06:10:59 definitely not Jun 07 06:11:28 oh, you're talking about the state, not the pin Jun 07 06:11:37 Yea Jun 07 06:11:39 well, dunno if bme cares or not Jun 07 06:12:19 Oh, that reminds me: Would it be possible to replace the microB backend with the one from, say Fennec/FF4? Jun 07 06:14:41 golden: >> OPA_MODE is the operation mode control bit. When OPA_MODE = 0, the bq24150/1 charges the related operation modes if HZ_MODE is set to "0", refer to Table 2 for detail. Jun 07 06:15:04 this is what chinese/japanese datasheets translated get you Jun 07 06:33:07 robbiethe1st: no doubt however about bq24150 sensing and signalling VBUS-OV in status bits (R00[2:0]=001 -> VBUS OVP) Jun 07 06:33:18 Hm, good Jun 07 06:35:53 >> Input Overvoltage Protection The bq24150/1 provides a built-in input over-voltage protection to protect the device and other components against damages if the input voltage (Voltage from VBUS to PGND) goes too high. When an input overvoltage condition is detected, bq24150/1 turns off the PWM converter, sets fault status bits, and sends out fault pulse in STAT pin. Once VBUS drops below the input overvoltage exit threshold, the fault is Jun 07 06:35:54 cleared and charge process resumes. Jun 07 06:37:12 this suggests short spikes recover and go unnoticed Jun 07 06:37:53 exactly what ShadowJK mentioned to be worse than reset-on-read Jun 07 06:39:06 "...the fault is cleared..." without any chance to get noticed on what sort of reliable means soever Jun 07 06:39:53 nothing to latch up the event, to read out async Jun 07 06:40:45 as robbiethe1st said, the STAT pin is only driving the amber LED and is not monitored by CPU Jun 07 06:41:39 hello and gooood moning Jun 07 06:42:01 Morning, all Jun 07 06:42:33 OTOH when cehteh says the device signals "charging not possible" then the condition has to stay long enough to log it by frequent polling of status register Jun 07 06:42:38 morn Jun 07 06:43:05 ing Jun 07 06:43:55 cehteh: you should shorten the poll-loop sleep in shadowjk's charger script to 1s (or less) to get proper logs about transient errors of VBUS Jun 07 06:45:30 I'm sure this is a good place to ask, so here goes. Anybody here knows how to administer profiles on Windows xp? Jun 07 06:45:36 Jaffa: how's life? Jun 07 06:45:54 *cough* Jun 07 06:46:03 administer what? Jun 07 06:46:07 well Jun 07 06:46:15 mece: ##windows :) Jun 07 06:46:19 %appdata% variable points to something that doesn't exist Jun 07 06:46:30 arvut, people aren't friendly in other channels Jun 07 06:46:57 you thing with *me* in *this* chan your choice been better ? ;-P Jun 07 06:47:01 mece: true dat. but this is for the maemo linux os, not win xp Jun 07 06:47:02 also, I assume people who actually use windows out of choice don't know shit about windows, or they wouldn't be using it. Jun 07 06:47:54 lol Jun 07 06:47:58 I've used windows xp since it came out. nowadays I either use win 7 or ubuntu Jun 07 06:47:58 good point Jun 07 06:48:06 arvut, really? Linux? Is that the newest version of windows? Jun 07 06:48:27 * mece is joking Jun 07 06:48:34 not funny Jun 07 06:48:41 was a little bit funny Jun 07 06:48:54 mece: http://xkcd.com/424/ Jun 07 06:49:37 so much for true nature of buntkuh Jun 07 06:49:42 DocScrutinizer, funny because true Jun 07 06:50:16 DocScrutinizer, I use Mint, which is the Windows 7 version of ubuntu Jun 07 06:50:29 DocScrutinizer: that was funny tho, especially the ubuntu winvista joke =) Jun 07 06:52:15 mece: its more like the already-configured ubuntu ;) Jun 07 06:52:57 arvut, but the already-configured ubuntu is called ubuntu Jun 07 06:53:45 looking at XKCD 424 I have a hard time stopping mumbling "maemo FIASCO" every time Jun 07 06:53:47 there's a new debian flavor mint tho. That does sound like a very nice thing for lazy gits like me Jun 07 06:54:14 mece: even-further configured ubuntu then Jun 07 06:54:29 maemo devels @ Nokia had a rather strange kind of humor Jun 07 06:54:41 or simply lazy man's ubuntu Jun 07 06:54:57 DocScrutinizer, teehee. I always wondered why they are called fiasco. I mean sure it's a mess, but fiasco? Hardly. Atleast when compared to the rest of the mobile crowd Jun 07 06:55:07 arvut, yes. That is spot on! Jun 07 06:55:36 mece: nokia devels are clever - fiasco also means flask Jun 07 06:55:53 But alas, I am stuck with this broken piece of dung, and I need to fix this Jun 07 06:56:07 I heard NOLO also isn't a nice word at some places in the world Jun 07 06:56:50 like a windows addicted friend of mine said (he even prefers IE before firefox!) : "windows if you want problems and mac OS if you're a complete idiot at computers" Jun 07 06:56:52 yep. means "embarrassed" Jun 07 06:57:31 arvut, aside from his awkward addiction, your friend seems like a smart man Jun 07 06:57:33 he didnt mention linux tho but I know he tried to install red hat 11 years ago Jun 07 06:57:33 or woman Jun 07 06:58:39 mece: hes actually quite brilliant when it comes to smartness. but too stubborn to move away from his beloved windows. Jun 07 06:58:50 windows always been the text adventure for the tech ignorant and ignorant about that fact masochists Jun 07 06:59:15 arvut, well that is his prerogative Jun 07 06:59:59 those who know they're tech ignorant like to opt for mac Jun 07 07:00:04 I like problemsolving too, just like he does. but I tend to expand my area or work when I feel there is need for a new challenge, hence why I've been stuck in linux 4 the last 3 years :P Jun 07 07:00:48 linux 4 ?? Jun 07 07:00:59 "for" Jun 07 07:01:07 not four Jun 07 07:01:14 DocScrutinizer: yeah, but it do make sense tho. you get things done and dont have to bother about problemsolving too much. its the tool that rarely breaks Jun 07 07:01:30 or? Jun 07 07:01:30 ty mece :) Jun 07 07:01:33 :) Jun 07 07:01:38 yes, for Jun 07 07:01:41 I was lazy Jun 07 07:02:23 an admin on a russian cs server just gave me a 4 week vacation :) Jun 07 07:02:33 train your speech recog sw, dude! ;-D Jun 07 07:03:06 nah, I like shorting words down when typing on the n900 Jun 07 07:03:29 longer keyboard life that way :) Jun 07 07:03:38 sometimes leaving out "words" better than abrev Jun 07 07:04:32 I get that, took some explaining, whihc means more typing. thus not saving keyboard life Jun 07 07:06:04 or Jun 07 07:06:16 no "word > wrong "word" Jun 07 07:13:52 umm Jun 07 07:13:59 ~dict frdhsgf Jun 07 07:14:01 could not find definition for frdhsgf Jun 07 07:14:12 ~dict sigill Jun 07 07:14:14 could not find definition for sigill Jun 07 07:15:57 ~dict sigill Jun 07 07:15:59 could not find definition for sigill Jun 07 07:17:47 GAN900: there's been a reason for this chan +c ? Jun 07 07:18:41 (what's the rationale of any channel having +c?) Jun 07 08:17:24 what is +c anyway? Jun 07 08:19:44 * edheldil can't find it either Jun 07 08:20:51 Okay, I'm here. (courtesy of docscrutinizer) Jun 07 08:31:05 +c means allowing/disallowing colors in the channel Jun 07 08:31:10 colored/bold text Jun 07 08:59:22 morning Jun 07 08:59:56 it's taken a while but I've just received my first skype call Jun 07 09:00:15 and it's still annoying that you don't see the phone number/type that is calling you Jun 07 09:00:29 * lardman presumes there must be a bug for this Jun 07 09:02:19 lardman, skype icon next to avatar Jun 07 09:02:32 didn't see that Jun 07 09:02:42 this contact doesn't have an avatar though Jun 07 09:02:49 blue avatar Jun 07 09:03:18 hmm, no, I don't think that was there tbh Jun 07 09:03:26 I would have noticed it Jun 07 09:04:01 I'm pretty sure it's there, I receive lots of skype calls Jun 07 09:04:33 I'll check tomorrow, but I did just sit there looking at the screen thinking this is going to cost the caller lots of money if it's a normal gsm call Jun 07 09:06:18 wow, there are lots of bugs against the phone/sms/messaging component Jun 07 09:11:13 hiemanshu: thought as much, thanks. That's not been the question though Jun 07 09:11:58 ooh, sorry, you answered to arvut / edheldil Jun 07 09:12:49 actually +c means colors are *not* allowed Jun 07 09:14:53 MohammadAG51: any notion about +c? Jun 07 09:14:54 Test05test Jun 07 09:14:56 hmm Jun 07 09:19:16 lardman: I sometimes wonder if the integration went just a bit *too* far wrt IM/SMS/Skype/VoIP/GSM Jun 07 09:19:51 no, I like the integration, would just be good to have some indication of exactly where to or from your message call will be going Jun 07 09:20:07 same's true of the messaging bit, never quite sure which number an sms will go to Jun 07 09:20:44 I also like the integration, what I don't like is the missing choice wehn it comes to the handling backends Jun 07 09:21:35 anyway the missing number display is a LOOOONG pending ticket Jun 07 09:21:39 Moo all Jun 07 09:21:47 mooorst Jun 07 09:22:03 lardman, send a message to echo-chinese saying "callme" Jun 07 09:22:20 I'm pretty sure there's an icon Jun 07 09:22:21 lol Jun 07 09:22:43 DocScrutinizer, 4people should be able to use colours Jun 07 09:23:01 * MohammadAG51 looks for that rainbow script Jun 07 09:23:05 so why are so many channels +c then? Jun 07 09:23:24 For some reason, chanserv help on flags does not list +c flag Jun 07 09:23:56 errr, not sure if it lists chanmodes at all Jun 07 09:24:15 for sure not all Jun 07 09:24:52 http://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml here you go Jun 07 09:40:55 DocScrutinizer: yeah, thats why the 'allowing/disallowing' part :D Jun 07 09:41:27 DocScrutinizer: most channels are +c because its considered spamming and can get out of hand at times Jun 07 09:41:56 hmm, never seen any issues so far Jun 07 09:42:34 well some times, we have had a lot of spammers and other issues before freenode shifted to Seven Jun 07 09:42:58 anyway, I enabled colors a few minutes ago. If anybody feels this is causing problems or just inconveniences for him, let me know Jun 07 09:44:42 or alternatively talk to any of the chanops listed in accesslist ( /msg chanserv access #maemo list ) Jun 07 09:47:33 hiemanshu: how would colors make spamming and bot attacks worse? Jun 07 09:48:09 hiemanshu: are there known exploits? Jun 07 09:48:13 DocScrutinizer: imagine multiple lines of rainbow text about pics of nakes girls Jun 07 09:48:29 no known exploits, it just hurts the eyes Jun 07 09:48:41 rainbow colors makes stuff hard to read Jun 07 09:48:46 will hurt eyes either way Jun 07 09:49:11 color abuse is a sure kickban, no doubt Jun 07 09:49:48 so is spamming in general Jun 07 09:49:48 yeah, thats the thing Jun 07 09:49:58 and spamming with color abuse is worse Jun 07 09:50:30 maybe I see the difference when I eventually see the difference ;-) Jun 07 09:51:02 alterego, gotten your dirty hands on the mythical harmattan device(s)? Jun 07 09:51:03 I'd think for me as chanop color spamming is especially easy to spot Jun 07 09:51:57 meh Jun 07 09:52:37 hyttical marmathan Jun 07 09:53:14 hyttical! Jun 07 10:24:44 * lardman wonders what the delay is with the mythical Harmattan device(s) Jun 07 10:25:48 lardman, first of all, its hyttical, not mythical, second, is it delayed? Jun 07 10:26:14 mece: ah I dunno about the delay bit of course Jun 07 10:26:27 * lardman looks up hyttical in the dictionary Jun 07 10:26:56 lardman, might not be there since DocScrutinizer coined it less than an hour ago Jun 07 10:27:22 Google decided I meant hypothetical, which is probably about right I guess ;) Jun 07 10:28:10 cynical marmouthan Jun 07 10:28:11 I guess it's a combination of mythical and hypothetical. Actually that makes sense. Jun 07 10:32:33 in any case I do hope they crack on, we're moving next week and I will be internetless Jun 07 10:32:50 though perhaps that would be a good thing, less F5 hitting :) Jun 07 10:40:10 * Jaffa looks forward to the heretical Harmattan devices. Jun 07 10:40:26 (well, that's the #meego meaning of hyttical ;-)) Jun 07 10:42:02 lardman, I love the rumor thread :D Jun 07 10:42:40 mece: I check the last page now and then, realising I've missed 10 in between Jun 07 10:44:52 I do (not) love the way some random will just pipe up with a "specification" and then say at the bottom that this is just their wish list Jun 07 10:45:02 drives me mad in fact Jun 07 11:51:25 after restoring a backup on a new N900, my old Alarmed events are still happening. However, they are not showing in the Alarmed GUI, leaving me no obvious way to delete them. Can somebody help? Jun 07 11:53:09 hey anyone here that could help me with a qdbus thing? Jun 07 11:53:31 I have a little experience with it Jun 07 11:55:02 mece reminds me; is there a way to install the qdbus binary on maemo? Jun 07 11:55:25 Has anyone had success tethering N900 with ubuntu 11.04 via usb? Jun 07 12:01:29 alterego, haven't tried with 11.04 yet, but it used to Just Work(TM) with 10.10 Jun 07 12:02:52 mgedmin: I know, works great on 10.10 Jun 07 12:02:59 Well, works on 10.10 Jun 07 12:03:06 But it fails everytime for 11.04 Jun 07 12:03:12 hm, interesting Jun 07 12:03:27 It's recognised as a modem, just doesn't dial and I don't know how to debug nm .. Jun 07 12:05:45 tail -f /var/log/daemon.log Jun 07 12:07:02 m'kay, thanks, I'll give that a go. Jun 07 12:07:05 see also https://live.gnome.org/NetworkManager/Debugging Jun 07 12:07:12 "Debugging PPP-based connections (3G, PPPoE)" Jun 07 12:07:13 Doesn't work via BT either btw ;) Jun 07 12:07:27 Ah, cool, thanks! :) Jun 07 12:08:03 except... "NM 0.8 uses somethingelse so this does not apply" Jun 07 12:08:12 oh, there's a different section right after Jun 07 12:08:29 anyway, let me try Jun 07 12:08:51 yep, fails Jun 07 12:08:59 :/ Jun 07 12:09:40 erm Jun 07 12:09:41 sorry Jun 07 12:09:43 right, so the log file is not daemon.log, but /var/log/syslog Jun 07 12:09:54 seems I'm actually too busy to do this right now. Stupid job. Jun 07 12:10:03 "GSM modem enable failed: (32) Serial command timed out" Jun 07 12:10:34 cool Jun 07 12:11:22 lardman, anyway I have a separate header file with some qdbus stuff and notifications. But the stupid thing opens a new window when there's a notification. I want it to stack.. Jun 07 12:11:48 lardman, I'm not exactly sure how to do it or whether it has anything to do with qdbus Jun 07 12:12:01 is that not an issue with your window props? Jun 07 12:13:25 why does my browser think I've visited https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=583691 in the past? Jun 07 12:13:26 04Bug 583691: was not found. Jun 07 12:15:47 fixed upstream Jun 07 12:16:01 lardman, possibly. Not sure what window props actually mean though. Jun 07 12:16:19 reported in ubuntu as https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/modemmanager/+bug/765516 Jun 07 12:17:01 mece: I'd also need to check them, but afair you can have a top level window or a child window which alters whether they appear in the task mamager, etc Jun 07 12:21:10 * mgedmin updates the ubuntu bug with a link to the upstream patch Jun 07 12:21:32 and now I have doubts about it having worked in 10.10... Jun 07 12:22:10 Well, it intermittantly works in 10.10 Jun 07 12:22:39 You have to unplug and plug it back in when it disconnects to reconnect amongst other oddities. Jun 07 12:24:15 oh snap, natty's modemmanager has that fix applied :( Jun 07 12:24:36 You're f'ing kidding? Jun 07 12:24:46 But it's not in 11.04? Jun 07 12:28:16 11.04 is natty Jun 07 12:28:34 which means there is a different bug somewhere Jun 07 12:35:08 Well, this looks like the modem manager is immediately enabling and disabling ttyACM0 Jun 07 12:36:37 * alterego wonders how to get a list of urls from open microb windows .. Jun 07 12:38:31 alterego: Dunno, but it'd be cool to have something which allowed for better movement of context between N900, Windows, Linux and iPad. Either myself or someone else Jun 07 12:38:49 alterego: Some kind of broadcast/Bonjour-style "so & so says this is interesting" Jun 07 12:39:08 I was just going to write a script, that got open windows and made firefox open them in tabs for me ;) Jun 07 12:39:13 Nothing too fancy :D Jun 07 12:40:55 I suppose at the very least, it'd be straight forward to implement a browser plugin to do it :) Jun 07 13:15:18 alterego: dunno what exactly it been but I pondered about microb plugins some time ago Jun 07 13:16:39 there are microb plugins? Jun 07 13:17:12 what ever happened to chromium on the n900? Jun 07 13:17:24 i remember it being in the repos one day then gone Jun 07 13:17:24 is this modemmanager thing like notworkmanager, designed to prevent you from surfing the webs? Jun 07 13:17:25 courgette Jun 07 13:17:35 Macer: Jun 07 13:17:50 It was subject to a claim that there was copyvio in it. Jun 07 13:18:07 copyvio? Jun 07 13:18:10 nokia pulled it - though there was a fixed version with the code ripped out Jun 07 13:18:11 yes Jun 07 13:18:30 It was related to the small update stuff Jun 07 13:18:30 so..... why wasnt it put back into the repo? Jun 07 13:18:38 nokia legal are annoying Jun 07 13:19:16 actively and on purpose? Jun 07 13:19:48 let's see whom to annoy today Jun 07 13:20:32 * SpeedEvil tries knocking various tones out of his upstream DSL connection to improve downstream rates. Jun 07 13:21:18 duh! such detailed control over rhat low level stuff? Jun 07 13:22:09 I have a wierd router. I wish it had GPL though. Jun 07 13:44:55 So I've got an "interesting" charging problem. My little sister jammed the wrong type of charger in the little nokia charger port of my N900 and ever since then it tells me it is charging even when it's not plugged in and I have no way of knowing my battery life. Jun 07 13:45:10 On top of that I haven't gotten more than 8 hours out of it. Jun 07 13:45:19 ouch Jun 07 13:45:34 Was wondering what the best way to get it repaired would be. It's out of warranty. Jun 07 13:45:40 And I don't have all that much money. Jun 07 13:58:38 that's... Jun 07 13:58:45 very strange O_o Jun 07 13:59:05 there are a few battery knowledgable people here that might be able to explain that? or at least theorize Jun 07 13:59:25 i recommend hanging out for a while Jun 07 14:03:24 Will do. Jun 07 14:04:24 Yeah, it's more than a little odd. I've installed battery-eye and battery graph and of course get some really weird readings. Advanced power causes a reboot loop after the first reset that requires reflashing. Jun 07 14:05:23 hrm Jun 07 14:05:54 i wonder if it scrambled something in the charging circuit in the n900 or in the battery itself Jun 07 14:06:08 replacing the battery wouldn't be free but it'd be comparatively cheap Jun 07 14:09:00 Already had a spare I swapped it with. No difference unfortunately so I have to assume it's the charging circuit. Jun 07 14:16:16 hi there Jun 07 14:16:45 I'm having some issues with the mobility example declarative-camera, can anyone help me? Jun 07 14:18:45 I've barely messed around with it but what's the issue? Jun 07 14:20:26 I'm using the last Qt SDK (released last may) that include Qt Mobility but when I try running the example included I obtain the following message Jun 07 14:21:05 qrc:/qml/declarative-camera.qml:42:1: module "QtMultimediKit" is not installed Jun 07 14:21:35 that line says: import QtMultimediKit 1.1 Jun 07 14:23:28 Do you know what version of QT Mobility you have? Jun 07 14:24:15 I installed the SDK Jun 07 14:25:15 Qt Mobility version 1.1.3 Jun 07 14:26:47 although I'm developing for a N900 with Maemo5 Jun 07 14:26:48 Hmm, wow. It's been a while. I know I had problems going from 1.0.2 to 1.1 and had to install some community library from extras-devel Jun 07 14:28:21 JackBeSlow can you explain it more clearly what have you done to update it Jun 07 14:28:23 ? Jun 07 14:29:32 Sure, hold on. Let me look up the article forum post that I went off of because I can barely remember. Jun 07 14:30:37 http://www.rsa.com/node.aspx?id=3891 Jun 07 14:30:43 Security. It is hard! Jun 07 14:31:23 I had: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=67588 and http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Latest_Qt_and_Qt_mobility_evaluation_on_Maemo filed under "Fixing my QT Mobility issues (stupid dependencies)" Jun 07 14:31:56 thanks a lot, Im going now, I'll read that later Jun 07 14:32:06 thanks Jun 07 14:32:30 No problem. Jun 07 14:32:48 (That's why I keep notes (-: ) Jun 07 14:40:17 MohammadAG51: you were right, it appears and flashes inside the avatar Jun 07 14:40:42 hmm, I think my Tab Android browser might have been spoofed on the paypal site Jun 07 14:40:43 crap Jun 07 14:41:56 all the more reason to get Meego up and running asap Jun 07 14:53:47 lardman: you found the small blue phones and [SIP]s and possibly Skype meanwhile? Jun 07 14:53:55 ooh Jun 07 14:54:22 docscrutinizer: I must have missed it before as it flashes quite slowly Jun 07 14:54:30 did you notice they are also on call log? Jun 07 14:54:48 yeah I saw that Jun 07 14:55:47 good afternoon Jun 07 14:55:51 what's definitely missing is the NUMBER for multi-number contacts Jun 07 14:56:52 I'm pondering to to finally spread a dirty hotfix and pop up a hildonSystemNotifier for it Jun 07 14:57:11 lardman, flashes for ringing and incoming call, solid after answering Jun 07 14:57:30 at which point it is stuck to my ear which isn't so useful :p Jun 07 14:58:25 * DocScrutinizer just removed the ' of ARG="ISI_SMS_ENABLE_SYSLOG=1 " in defaults/csd-sms Jun 07 14:59:04 lardman: that applies as well for 12" flashing red alert Jun 07 14:59:21 :-P Jun 07 14:59:52 sure, but it would be better for the skype symbol to be larger imho while it's ringing, and it flashing isn't necessary Jun 07 15:00:52 config file for CSD SAT plugin - - - WTF?!?!! Jun 07 15:01:28 who's been asking for SIM Application Toolkit? Jun 07 15:03:31 csd-call config file for CSD CALL plugin: #ARGS="autorej=1" - - -o.O :-o Jun 07 15:04:25 DocScrutinizer: I was looking for SIM Toolkit Jun 07 15:05:03 ls -l /usr/lib/csd/plugins Jun 07 15:06:48 hmm, no csd-sat file in there Jun 07 15:07:04 only in /etc/default/ Jun 07 15:07:15 that's odd Jun 07 15:07:42 sim & simppb, no sat Jun 07 15:07:55 simpb Jun 07 15:08:43 so quite possibly there exist SAT, which did not make it to distro, grr Jun 07 15:09:50 indeed Jun 07 15:10:06 probably buggy Jun 07 15:10:53 I can't believe no one knows how it works Jun 07 15:11:09 still, somebody at Nokia has it and just has not get time to finish :( Jun 07 15:11:11 what? SAT? Jun 07 15:11:25 yes Jun 07 15:11:42 an implementation of it shouldn't be that hard Jun 07 15:12:14 MohammadAG51: we 'all' know how SAT's supposed to work, but how to integrate that to CSD.... :-/ Jun 07 15:12:36 why not interface directly with the modem? Jun 07 15:12:52 what exactly is csd? Jun 07 15:13:09 ~csd Jun 07 15:13:14 meh, because we need to cooperate with ISI and CSD Jun 07 15:13:35 ~isi Jun 07 15:13:35 i guess isi is \"Ingénierie des Sytèmes Informatiques\" Jun 07 15:14:02 intelligent systems interface Jun 07 15:14:16 the modem lowlevel stuff Jun 07 15:15:07 CSD is Nokia's blob dealing with ISI aiui Jun 07 15:15:13 infobot, csd is Cellular Services Daemon Jun 07 15:15:13 okay, MohammadAG51 Jun 07 15:17:00 infobot, isi is Ingénierie des Systèmes Informatiques Jun 07 15:17:00 ...but isi is already something else... Jun 07 15:17:06 infobot, isi is Ingénierie des Systèmes Informatiques Jun 07 15:17:19 DocScrutinizer51, apt-cache show csd-sat Jun 07 15:17:21 infobot, no isi is Ingénierie des Systèmes Informatiques Jun 07 15:17:21 crashanddie: okay Jun 07 15:17:27 ~isi Jun 07 15:17:27 isi is probably Ingénierie des Systèmes Informatiques Jun 07 15:17:32 LOL Jun 07 15:17:49 ~snack Jun 07 15:17:50 * infobot snack? yes yeaaas yeaaaaaaaaaaas pleaaase :P Jun 07 15:22:02 what means "transitional package"? Jun 07 15:22:22 DocScrutinizer, it's a proxy package Jun 07 15:23:00 DocScrutinizer, it's a package that has dependencies on other packages, and is uninstalled right after it's installed Jun 07 15:23:04 GREAT Jun 07 15:23:07 so mere BS Jun 07 15:23:14 DocScrutinizer, why? Jun 07 15:23:32 as it's basically empty? Jun 07 15:23:40 yeah Jun 07 15:24:41 leftovr from PR0.84 Jun 07 15:27:13 DocScrutinizer51: transitional is build-essentials fyi Jun 07 15:28:36 quiet useful for collections of things you might want to install singlehanded but for some cases retail Jun 07 15:29:42 DocScrutinizer51: including stacks with "recommended" flags which do not get installed by the base Jun 07 15:30:43 whatever all that means Jun 07 15:33:28 DocScrutinizer51: you include packages not getting installed if not named, or a collection of packages the "maintainer" thinks are needed for something stacked Jun 07 15:34:20 \o/ my load applet is gone, my applets are messed up, my profile switching is back to "normal" == useless. WTF?! Seems I should boot Jun 07 15:34:47 o_O Jun 07 15:35:01 chem|st: nm, I'm not getting it today Jun 07 15:35:21 each of your explanations adds to the chinese in my head Jun 07 15:36:02 fact is we got no CSD-SAT Jun 07 15:36:13 Eh? A "transitional" package is when a previously populated package gets renamed and the old package becomes a meta-package for it. Jun 07 15:36:15 except config file and apt-cache info Jun 07 15:36:55 e.g. "exim" gets renamed to "exim4". "exim" Depends: exim4 and has no content o f it own Jun 07 15:37:03 whatever, you're all free to apt-* * csd-sat Jun 07 15:37:22 anyway, the csd-sat package only replaces libsat and libsat0 packages, not providing any useful files, and some packages (mp-freemantle-generic-pr and cmt-firmware-rx51) depend on it Jun 07 15:37:24 to learn what it is now, here Jun 07 15:39:23 the question is, where is libsat? Jun 07 15:40:21 Nokia HQ Jun 07 15:40:56 Jaffa: that is one case Jun 07 15:45:00 chem|st: I've never heard metapackages referred to as "transitional" before. Jun 07 15:47:51 Jaffa: most metapackages are transitional^^ Jun 07 15:50:22 chem|st: What is it that makes build-essential transitional, but ubuntu-desktop not? Jun 07 15:51:53 Jaffa: ubuntu-desktop is transitional... Jun 07 15:53:22 by definition metapackages are transitional but transitional doesn't mean meta by default Jun 07 15:54:39 a transitional package used as single pointer like for exim -> exim"current" is not meta, is it? Jun 07 15:54:57 DocScrutinizer, not that I can recall. Must be incidental. Jun 07 15:56:06 GeneralAntilles: s/o may looked for a good meta name and picked the wrong one or it came from csd-sat and was cut out with those now depending Jun 07 15:56:36 Huh? Jun 07 15:56:56 chem|st, I'm farther up in scrollback. ;) Jun 07 15:57:03 GeneralAntilles: ah sry Jun 07 15:57:29 chem|st: Can you point to this "definition" by which things are "by definition" then? I thought "metapackage" was a technique/pattern and "transitional" was a usage of that pattern for a particular purpose. Jun 07 15:57:46 chem|st: Your "by definition" is circular, so now its Citation Needed ;-) Jun 07 15:58:09 Jaffa: you might lookup the meaning of the word "transitional" yourself Jun 07 15:58:45 chem|st: In what? Jun 07 15:59:07 jaffa Jun 07 15:59:08 An example of transitional packages in Debian Jun 07 15:59:08 When you have to change the name of your package (e.g. for complying with policies) or you make a new package that is meant to replace the old one (e.g. gcc4.2 -> gcc4.3), you’ll have to deal with the fact that the other packages that use your old package as a dependency will not be immediately updated, or maybe never will. So, to overcome this issue, there is a useful trick: transitional packages. Jun 07 15:59:16 http://baraujo.net/blog/?p=17 Jun 07 15:59:43 http://wiki.debian.org/Renaming_a_Package Jun 07 15:59:53 ^...and also Jun 07 16:00:11 lcuk: Yes - that's my definition of a transitional package. Jun 07 16:00:25 yea and metapackages are used just for the case... so what is your actual question? Jun 07 16:00:51 lcuk: Given there was never a package which provided the entirety of build-essential or ubuntu-desktop, it is not to continue to provide an upgrade path after a package has been renamed. Jun 07 16:01:24 Jaffa, build-essential is in the sdk repository Jun 07 16:01:30 and not in -extras or -devel Jun 07 16:01:44 which repo are you looking and where is depending upon build-essential? Jun 07 16:01:47 chem|st: The word "transitional" implies that the original is no longer needed to continue with its primary purpose. Jun 07 16:02:06 lcuk: This is a packaging discussion, not a Maemo repositories discussion Jun 07 16:02:33 Jaffa: or in other words bridge a path that is changing from time to time or newly... Jun 07 16:02:42 chem|st: However, the "original" build-essential and ubuntu-desktop continue to provide usage even after their dependencies are provided, in terms of the bundle aspect you described earlier. Jun 07 16:02:54 Jaffa, but your assertion that build-esential does not exist is incorrect Jun 07 16:02:55 http://maemo.org/packages/view/build-essential/ Jun 07 16:03:10 Jaffa: and transitional does not imply that it was a real package before Jun 07 16:03:16 chem|st: No, in English, "transitional" would never be used for a continuing process; nor is there any evidence on Google that anyone else refers to build-essential or ubuntu-desktop as a "transitional" descktop Jun 07 16:03:40 lcuk: FFS, I've not asserted that. When did I assert that? I said it was a metapackage not a transitional package. Jun 07 16:03:52 Jaffa: my "transition" quote was from ubuntu.org... Jun 07 16:03:59 My argument is that all transitional packages are metapackages; chem|st argues that all metapackages are transitional. Jun 07 16:04:01 .com ssry Jun 07 16:04:19 But, it's so fucking semantic, I don't give a toss. Jun 07 16:04:56 Jaffa: yeah Jun 07 16:05:22 But, finally: "Transitional packages are essentially proxies – packages that pull the correct dependencies when installed and can be removed without problems as soon as the installation finishes". If you apt-get remove ubuntu-desktop, you get a loss of functionality around upgrades that you would not get from apt-get remove exim (if it transitioned to exim4) Jun 07 16:05:44 That's from the top result for "debian transitional package" - at the URL lcuk gave earlier. Jun 07 16:08:16 why would upgrades brake? either ubuntu-desktop gets pulled in again or the then installed packages get upgraded Jun 07 16:09:35 and you wont get exim5 without "exim" but upgrades of exim4...?! Jun 07 16:10:18 Hello, can I backup the played-stats from the default media player? (I am flashing my n900) :) Jun 07 16:10:38 [Does tracker store the played-stats?] Jun 07 16:16:29 * GAN900 sighs at political sex scandal tomfoolery. Jun 07 16:16:47 US National Media: We focus on the important issues. Jun 07 16:22:55 pir: would think tracker file-meta has that maybe Jun 07 16:23:34 GAN: Sex scandals are positive news Jun 07 16:23:58 Illegal wars are more relevant. Jun 07 16:24:02 GAN: National debt, jobs outlook, and three wars are negative news. Guess which ones get picked up by journos Jun 07 16:26:43 Nokia downgraded from BBB+ to BBB- Jun 07 16:27:04 Little late Jun 07 16:30:07 moo. Jun 07 16:30:14 moo indeed Jun 07 16:31:10 GAN900: Credit downgrades are always late. Jun 07 16:32:17 is there any way to reinstall kernel-power? Jun 07 16:34:03 "Would you buy Nokia stock for 4.71? -- I still wouldn't go anywhere near it!" - CNBC financial analyst =) Jun 07 16:34:13 * javispedro is writing a statement of purpose... Jun 07 16:35:01 I bet noone's going to like "Because everyone else is doing it". Jun 07 16:35:15 Ah, but it is all about how you word it! Jun 07 16:35:50 Try "Because this is a popular topic, the effective solutions to which are in high demand" Jun 07 16:36:46 -- you really need years of experience for that =) Jun 07 16:37:01 Well... :) Jun 07 16:37:46 i still get "application memory full" or smth when trying to update with AM, is it CSSU to blame? apt-get upgrade works just fine. Jun 07 16:38:08 Arkenoi: what does df say? Jun 07 16:38:17 plenty of space everywhere Jun 07 16:38:25 Hm Jun 07 16:38:53 HAM has a menu option toshow the log Jun 07 16:39:01 See if there are any peculiar messages Jun 07 16:39:08 derf, true. Jun 07 16:39:24 Even if they do manage to come out with something useful Jun 07 16:39:28 Perception is everything in stocks. Jun 07 16:39:34 and if you aint Apple or Google. . . . Jun 07 16:39:47 ~have you bought MS stock lately?~ Jun 07 16:40:21 They won't =( Jun 07 16:40:59 Even if they succeed with WP7, the math is badly against them (look at the percentage of the smartphone market vs total cell phones, and also at Nokia's profit margins) Jun 07 16:41:30 Also interesting is that like Nokia they are alinating their own dev base Jun 07 16:41:32 They would probably have a chance with a timely and gradual Simics->Maemo transition Jun 07 16:41:42 have you seen MSDN since the announcement of win8 html5 apps? Jun 07 16:41:52 Yeah, butt hurt galore... Jun 07 16:42:02 plenty of heart-broken silverlight diehard fans. Jun 07 16:43:33 \o/ Jun 07 16:44:22 wait a moment. Simics->Maemo transition? =) Jun 07 16:48:36 javispedro: if they slowly transitioned their symbian userbase to maemo, it might have worked Jun 07 16:49:04 right now though, they simply told everyone to leave, the show is closing. Jun 07 16:50:48 heh -- "Open Plea by Silverlight Devs for Full Windows 8 SUpport in Addition to HTML5" Jun 07 16:51:21 so,no native, no C#, just html5? Jun 07 16:51:34 it's funny that Nokia moved from Qt as primary platform to an ... obsoloted one. Jun 07 16:51:48 RST38h, have to wait for the next update now.. Jun 07 16:52:00 hm Jun 07 16:52:16 no, you do not have to wait, the log stays there unless you cleared it Jun 07 16:52:43 nope, it is empty Jun 07 16:53:26 RST38h: that's what is known from the MS press release. HTML5 only for the new w8 tablet UI, all other apps are run in the traditional UI. Jun 07 16:53:55 Sadly, I bet they will relent and allow tablet Silverlight apps. Otherwise I'd be stocking popcorn. Jun 07 16:54:16 javispedro: this probably means that the tablet UI will simplybe an application (like Media Center) running on top of the normalOS Jun 07 16:54:19 and desktop too Jun 07 16:55:00 RST38h: and it is probably implemented that way. the difference is that w8 will run it by default at startup. Jun 07 16:55:36 javis: if you can run normal apps from this contraption, you will be ok Jun 07 16:55:49 so, my guess is that HTML5 is only used for applets within this UI Jun 07 16:56:35 that is what happens Jun 07 16:57:00 but the media center UI will be advertised as "the next UI". Jun 07 16:57:29 e.g. http://www.buildwindows.com/ Jun 07 17:01:02 javis: does not make it the next ui for real Jun 07 17:02:54 dunno, ms tends to make weird decisions from time to time Jun 07 17:28:20 Wii U is one dumb name. Jun 07 17:28:34 Wii U is one dumb name. Jun 07 17:29:29 Name for an instant messaging generation Jun 07 17:29:54 Not shortenable. Jun 07 17:30:15 Wii 2 would've been easier. Jun 07 17:31:02 WU :p Jun 07 17:32:11 don't companies usually announce something before the FCC confidentiality date passes? Jun 07 17:33:35 ah, thanks for the reminder GAN900 Jun 07 17:33:40 so, let's see what they have in store. Jun 07 17:34:02 W. T. F. Jun 07 17:35:30 GAN900: Surely Wii 2 would be the Wii Wii? Jun 07 17:35:39 Mohammad: Normal companies do Jun 07 17:37:16 i guess html5 will make sure nobody ever writes anything overly innovative :-) Jun 07 17:38:58 (19:28:37) (GAN900) Not shortenable. Jun 07 17:39:02 w2u :D Jun 07 17:39:16 * ShadowJK wees at u Jun 07 17:39:35 * SpeedEvil wonders how many power stations will be needed for the Wii U Jun 07 17:40:02 twenty-four Jun 07 17:41:02 * javispedro wonders about how it works Jun 07 17:41:17 I bet its not streaming video Jun 07 17:43:21 argh, bloody Linux and card readers Jun 07 17:43:22 <_trine> Nokia Bonds have just been downgraded to junk status according to the BBC Jun 07 17:44:46 hmm, I like the way BBB- means just above junk Jun 07 17:45:07 like the way we assign A levels over here now, anything below an A means a fail ;) Jun 07 17:45:32 <_trine> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10308395 Jun 07 17:45:51 <_trine> opps wrong headline Jun 07 17:46:05 <_trine> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13682580 Jun 07 17:51:31 this is sooo annoying, whenever i want to format an SD card I have to boot windows as Linux doesn't recognise the partition Jun 07 17:52:15 * RST38h formatted SD cards in Linux, no problem Jun 07 17:52:35 probably my usb card reader Jun 07 17:52:39 Aside from damn Ubuntu hanging hard every now and then, when it can't read some slightly faulty card Jun 07 17:53:04 so much faffing about before I can get working on the Tab kernel again, grrrr Jun 07 17:53:44 in a world where several companies provide non-commecrial VM software licenses for free and the average desktop is a dual core I see absolutely no reason to not use windows as a host OS and run linux VMs Jun 07 17:53:48 lardman: You are sitll better off than me Jun 07 17:53:50 * lardman goes to find a laptop to save needing to reboot Jun 07 17:54:00 * RST38h could not get to work on the stuff he likes for the last 6 months Jun 07 17:54:01 RST38h: why's that? Jun 07 17:54:08 ah Jun 07 17:55:13 I do know that feeling though, far too busy and then knackered when I get home Jun 07 18:06:32 hello Jun 07 18:07:10 I'm trying to release a new app, but I get this warning: "Warning: Promotion of experimental Qtm based applications (libqtm11 or libqtm-extras) is blocked due to conflicts with stable versions." Jun 07 18:07:17 which are the stable versions ? Jun 07 18:11:46 want to bet on the specs of the wiiu controller? maybe it can run meego!! ;P Jun 07 18:15:56 b0unc3: libqtm10 ? Jun 07 18:16:13 see what's in the Extras repo Jun 07 18:17:33 b0unc3: it is what it says Jun 07 18:18:48 so libqtm-11 is the stable version ? Jun 07 18:19:19 libqtm10 Jun 07 18:19:26 probabl Jun 07 18:19:43 javispedro: I can't found libqtm10 Jun 07 18:19:48 find* Jun 07 18:20:06 "libqtm" without suffix exists Jun 07 18:20:40 W: Unable to locate package libqtm , are you sure ? Jun 07 18:21:57 btw my app depends (as far as I can tell) from libqtm-11-declarative and libqtm-11-sensors Jun 07 18:25:38 iOS 5 is such a rip off Jun 07 18:26:25 s/iOS 5/Apple/ Jun 07 18:33:07 qtm and stable? MUHAHA Jun 07 18:36:46 MohammadAG: it is just a bugfix release. Jun 07 18:37:05 marketed as the best thing ever, but that's as usual. Jun 07 18:38:21 javispedro, If I were google I'd sue them Jun 07 18:38:55 FIQ, not bad. But that's three syllables. Jun 07 18:39:15 javispedro: what an idea! Jun 07 18:39:25 Actually, NGP would be pretty cool with MeeGo, too. Jun 07 18:40:21 That controller is going to be so expensive. Jun 07 18:40:28 depends on the specs Jun 07 18:40:39 You could easily get it down to $100 Jun 07 18:40:52 or even $80 and still be pretty decent Jun 07 18:41:53 or maybe they'll sell the controllers for a loss =) Jun 07 18:42:12 The way the DS prints money they certainly could. Jun 07 18:42:30 I'm excited. Only thing that bothers me about the Wii is the lack of HD. Jun 07 18:42:34 ending with a real orchestra playing zelda tunes is just why over the top Jun 07 18:42:39 s/why/way Jun 07 18:43:05 (but I must admit I like it...) Jun 07 18:43:07 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_%26_Zelda_Big_Band_Live Jun 07 18:44:04 GeneralAntilles: Of course - the big question. Jun 07 18:44:10 Can the controller run meego? Jun 07 18:44:27 it resembles a tablet more than a game controller Jun 07 18:44:35 which is, I bet, on par with the times. Jun 07 18:45:27 Crazy, crazy times. Jun 07 18:45:41 * GeneralAntilles can't imagine would his 10-year-old self would've thought. Jun 07 18:46:02 "where is my flying car?" "why I can't be captain of the Enterprise?" Jun 07 18:46:26 I still think a Star Trek simulator is something that needs to happen. Jun 07 18:46:30 MMORPG-style. Jun 07 18:46:36 oh, the orchestra part is the _beginning_ Jun 07 18:46:53 "Sit at your console and take comm messages." Jun 07 18:46:58 GeneralAntilles: 'Oooh! I can download porn on this thing' Jun 07 18:47:07 GeneralAntilles: well, you now have the PADD thing Jun 07 18:47:30 woooo wiiu controller!! http://www.instructables.com/id/PADD-from-star-trek-voyager/ Jun 07 18:48:00 I like how they treated them like individual documents in Voyager. Jun 07 18:48:10 GeneralAntilles: Imagination fail. Jun 07 18:48:11 "Why wouldn't you just have one device that has all of the information? . . ." Jun 07 18:48:15 GeneralAntilles: Well... Jun 07 18:48:23 ah, a paradox. Jun 07 18:48:27 GeneralAntilles: To be fair - if the deveices can be replicated Jun 07 18:48:33 GeneralAntilles: They may be 'free' Jun 07 18:48:49 GeneralAntilles: So it may just be that a 'natural wm' may be preferred. Jun 07 18:48:54 the most advanced of technologies -- and the easiest way of "hey, look at the document I have here" is still physically sharing the device. Jun 07 18:49:23 Also, you missed the obvious one. Jun 07 18:49:26 Well, the replicator costs deuturium, right? Jun 07 18:49:26 It's DRM. Jun 07 18:49:30 Hehe Jun 07 18:49:33 You can't copy the document . Jun 07 18:49:59 Yes, actually, it was the RIAA who fleet the Enterprise -- not star fleet. Jun 07 18:50:10 "to search for copyright violations on the confines of unknown space!!" Jun 07 18:50:38 © Ensign Slessinger Jun 07 18:51:51 nintendo, gimme specs Jun 07 18:52:54 Wonder if its PPC again. Jun 07 18:53:00 What powers Watson? Jun 07 18:53:09 IBM, so "yes". Jun 07 18:53:19 I'm curious as to the power use. Jun 07 18:53:31 POWER7 Jun 07 18:53:33 It used to be that the Wii used 1/10th the power of the competing platforms. Jun 07 18:53:36 Probably not high. Jun 07 18:53:45 Not much room for cooling it looks like. Jun 07 18:54:10 SpeedEvil: Yeah, I bet power usage will be the same. Because we are not going to be surprised on specs. Jun 07 18:54:33 Little irrelevant anyway. Jun 07 18:54:41 * SpeedEvil is on a power saving kick ATM. Jun 07 18:54:43 I take it the discussion is about a Wii 2? Jun 07 18:54:51 Wii U! Jun 07 18:54:59 Wii Fsck U! Jun 07 18:55:11 * javispedro opens the door to more lame jokes Jun 07 18:55:32 I wonder if it'll be actually HD... Jun 07 18:55:39 javispedro, you suck for not coming to the last MeeGo Conference ever. Jun 07 18:55:45 ruskie, 1080p Jun 07 18:56:15 GeneralAntilles: you suck for _coming_ to the last! Jun 07 18:56:22 True Jun 07 18:56:27 ;P Jun 07 18:57:11 hmm omg... someone was busy on the wikipedia page Jun 07 18:57:26 hello Jun 07 18:57:28 the nintendo e3 site is a horribly mess, I click on "WiiU" and get "Mario Kart ... for 3DS". Jun 07 18:57:51 You can't have a Wii U. Jun 07 18:57:59 who here has experiance of connecting a gamepad to drnoksnes? Jun 07 18:58:04 It knows this, you know this, so here's a 3DS thing instead. Jun 07 18:58:45 it would be best if it were to just advertise me some wiizelda, which I'd buy... Jun 07 18:58:46 gamepad works (i can cat /devi/input/js0) but i dont know how to get drnoksnes too 'see' it. Jun 07 18:58:49 vi__: which kind of gamepad? Jun 07 18:59:29 vi__: ah. I do think I ever finished joystick support :( Jun 07 18:59:35 javispedro: it is just a standard 8 button controller that appears on /dev/input/js0 Jun 07 18:59:38 gamepad works (i can cat /devi/input/js0) but i dont know how to get drnoksnes too 'see' it. Jun 07 18:59:58 javispedro: say what?? Jun 07 19:00:23 javispedro: but it is based on snes9x right? Jun 07 19:00:58 it is actually a horrible merge of several code bases.. Jun 07 19:01:16 2 gamepads+tv out+hen==total bro mode pocket console. Jun 07 19:01:25 javispedro: ok Jun 07 19:01:40 try to get an app that maps joy buttons to x key presses, should exist. Jun 07 19:01:51 or implement joypad buttons on drnok yourself, should be trivial. Jun 07 19:01:57 javispedro: good thinking Jun 07 19:02:23 javispedro: any suggestions of programs to start looking at? Jun 07 19:02:35 Teehee: http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/media/2011/06/mounted.jpg Jun 07 19:02:54 vi__: wiimote stuff Jun 07 19:03:14 javispedro: thankyou Jun 07 19:03:19 General: Let me guess, he is using it for his pet gerbil? Jun 07 19:03:20 GeneralAntilles: bah, was expecting a wiiu controller joke! Jun 07 19:03:38 javispedro: did you also create ines? Jun 07 19:03:43 I see that you're all talking about E3/ninty/whatever Jun 07 19:04:21 Do you need some help with that? Jun 07 19:04:26 Jun 07 19:04:30 vi__: nope Jun 07 19:05:02 vi__, that's somebody else chatting right now. :P Jun 07 19:05:14 #maemo - it's where the pros go Jun 07 19:06:19 * MohammadAG wonders what to call the DBus path for sociality Jun 07 19:06:58 d Jun 07 19:07:22 Nook Color is marginally less useless withe Phiremod. Jun 07 19:08:32 Harmattan better still have "tap outside to close dialog". Jun 07 19:08:40 Because I can't stop trying to do that on every other platform. Jun 07 19:08:55 do not worry, ios 17 will have that too. Jun 07 19:09:19 * javispedro realizes the wiiu controller ALSO HAS THE WRIST STRAP Jun 07 19:09:25 hahaha Jun 07 19:09:32 so as not to break the screen I guess Jun 07 19:09:42 oh, good point. Jun 07 19:09:44 the irony.... Jun 07 19:10:10 wii controller breaks screens, wiiu has breakable screen... Jun 07 19:10:35 Hehe Jun 07 19:10:46 * GeneralAntilles taps furiously outside a dialog on Android. Jun 07 19:11:21 javispedro: thankyou for your help. Jun 07 19:11:55 * javispedro grabs some popcorn and heads straight to a wii fans forum Jun 07 19:11:59 vi__: np Jun 07 19:17:40 * lardman curses the lack of root on Android Jun 07 19:17:54 * hiemanshu curses android Jun 07 19:19:33 ooooh, the wiiu controller is RESISTIVE Jun 07 19:19:37 * javispedro is sold Jun 07 19:19:56 where does this miyamoto guy want me to deposit my money? Jun 07 19:20:59 Somewhere in the future. Jun 07 19:21:01 Isn't it terrible? Jun 07 19:21:04 Something is telling mee that this Wii U controller is just another GBA Jun 07 19:21:06 Or NDS Jun 07 19:21:16 On the inside, I mean Jun 07 19:21:17 * GeneralAntilles hopes the Nokia announcement on the 21st will be "shipping today". Jun 07 19:21:24 "Oh, and some cheap/free ones for people we like." Jun 07 19:21:29 (even though I have to ponder who is the genius selling a 6 inch SINGLE touch gaming device...) Jun 07 19:21:35 RST38h, seems probable. Jun 07 19:22:01 "There's no such thing as a perfectly secure operating system, but security experts agree  somewhat grudgingly in some cases  that iOS, Apple's mobile operating system, is the most secure commercial OS today, mobile or desktop." Jun 07 19:22:15 == Slashdot Jun 07 19:22:17 RST38h: meanwhile, iOS5 cracked minutes after release. Jun 07 19:22:35 slashdot runs that?? Jun 07 19:22:39 pfft. Jun 07 19:22:45 javispedro: Never let reality spoil the grandieur of your theories! Jun 07 19:22:52 I bet the editor was high. On trolling. Jun 07 19:22:53 /. is completely irrelevant these days. Jun 07 19:24:19 * RST38h thanks Nintendo for putting a plain little red LED into WiiU Jun 07 19:24:29 "the Wii U2 -- it comes with aBono" Jun 07 19:24:36 s/a// Jun 07 19:24:36 javispedro meant: "the Wii U2 -- it comes with Bono" Jun 07 19:24:50 argh, bloody Android, bloody SD card formatting Jun 07 19:24:52 Those stupid super bright blue LEDs everybody uses now makes me want to kill people. Jun 07 19:25:28 RST38h: where are you seeing the little red? I still see a ultra bright blue dot on the official art Jun 07 19:25:43 even on the controller Jun 07 19:25:56 javispedro: http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/07/nintendo-wii-u-console-eyes-on/ Jun 07 19:26:12 that is a button Jun 07 19:26:49 a button that btw on the wii1 is hidden behind the flip-door. so I suspect the externals are provisional. Jun 07 19:27:12 unless they now use compact flash cards or the like which could explain an enlarged memory card slot.. Jun 07 19:27:16 word Jun 07 19:27:21 Oh no Jun 07 19:27:33 Blue LEDs. MUST... KILL... PEOPLE.... BRAINZZZZZ!!! Jun 07 19:27:57 uhm Jun 07 19:28:00 javispedro: Maybe the slot accepts NES carts? =) Jun 07 19:28:17 RST38h: I have a BenQ TFT that has one such über bright 2cm blue led right at the bottom bezel part. Jun 07 19:28:33 wii u? Jun 07 19:28:34 RST38h: no way how you look at the screen the blue light always hits your eye. Jun 07 19:28:46 javis: Similar here, the BBK DVD recorder comes with a blue led bright enough to read at night Jun 07 19:28:48 is that the name of nintendo's new one? Jun 07 19:29:07 RST38h: seriously. What is with the Koreans and those blue LEDs? Jun 07 19:29:10 javis: fortunately, the damn thing died a couple of months ago, and the LG recorder uses red Jun 07 19:29:27 javispedro: I covered the blue LEDs on my LCDs with cheese wax. Jun 07 19:29:35 I use tape Jun 07 19:29:42 General: They came into fashion at the same time with the semi-transparent bluish casings, rtight after Steve Jobs came up with a blue iMac Jun 07 19:29:44 std adhesive tape =) Jun 07 19:30:19 General: The price point for blue leds went down around then, and the asians starts putting them in, as a sign of high quality Jun 07 19:31:12 what's wrong with blue leds? Jun 07 19:31:29 Macer: too bright, too non-standard UI-wise Jun 07 19:31:46 non standard ui wise? :) Jun 07 19:31:54 Macer: this: http://blackwallpaperz.com/LilBlack/Centered-Blue-Explosion-Black-Wallpaper-1.jpg Jun 07 19:31:55 there are standard leds? Jun 07 19:32:00 Macer: standard UI coding is green (normal), yellow (attention), red (fuckedup) Jun 07 19:32:04 javispedro: I was eating one of those mini gouda wheels when I finally snapped. *g* Jun 07 19:32:24 but no drives have that type of led control Jun 07 19:32:32 well. some probably do Jun 07 19:32:41 Macer: it is just general rules Jun 07 19:32:53 who made the standard! Jun 07 19:32:54 ? Jun 07 19:32:59 iso? Jun 07 19:32:59 Macer: when you do air traffic control sw, for example, this is the first rule your client explains to you Jun 07 19:33:00 Who the hell is noaheverett and when the hell did I start following him on Twitter. . . . Jun 07 19:33:31 Macer: 3 colors. The rest of the UI needs to be done in something that does not bleed user's eyes out Jun 07 19:33:43 Macer: And bright blue isn't it. Jun 07 19:33:43 GeneralAntilles: about right after you broke up with your ex and she started following gay men on your acct on twitter Jun 07 19:33:50 Macer: shit! Jun 07 19:34:19 :) first rule of breaking up... lock your computers and phones Jun 07 19:34:29 and change all the passwords she knows about Jun 07 19:34:38 of course, the older controller being called the wiimote, this one should be called the wiipad. Jun 07 19:34:39 cmon man... women are horrible. Jun 07 19:35:14 Macer, that doesn't sound cynical at all. Jun 07 19:35:29 how do I terminate a zombie process? Jun 07 19:35:37 same way as a relationship Jun 07 19:35:49 you REBOOT. Jun 07 19:36:20 MohammadAG: that, you will learn in university. Jun 07 19:36:43 kill Jun 07 19:36:48 the zombie process or the relationship part? Jun 07 19:36:54 kill will not do anything to a zombie process Jun 07 19:36:56 reboot Jun 07 19:37:09 oh, that's too bad Jun 07 19:37:32 that is an ugly remote Jun 07 19:37:46 that pad with the sceen looking thing Jun 07 19:37:58 wait,so, no more waving about with WiiU? Jun 07 19:38:05 is that the new wiimote? Jun 07 19:38:11 RST38h: it comes with wrist strap for a reason! Jun 07 19:38:12 kill the parent process Jun 07 19:38:23 RST38h: i was going to ask the same Jun 07 19:38:29 javispedro: you are supposed to wave about with this... thing? Jun 07 19:38:39 RST38h: $120 thing Jun 07 19:38:43 RST38h: yes Jun 07 19:39:03 heh.. it looks like .... the atari jaguar remote :) Jun 07 19:39:17 the reason for the jaguar's failure Jun 07 19:39:18 maybe its the master plan from nintendo to print more money Jun 07 19:39:25 sell an expensive controller Jun 07 19:39:33 induce users to wave expensive controller around Jun 07 19:39:37 3) Jun 07 19:39:39 Ah come on, it is not the reasong for the jaguar failure Jun 07 19:39:39 4) profit! Jun 07 19:39:44 i am sure a lot of people will wait on this one Jun 07 19:39:58 what are the specs of the device? Jun 07 19:40:09 is it at least as good as a 360 yet? :) Jun 07 19:40:11 javispedro: make a special button on the controller saying SMOKE Jun 07 19:40:27 javispedro: Slowly burn the controller until it is non-functional Jun 07 19:40:32 REPEAT. Jun 07 19:41:53 i think they just made a different ps3 controller with a screen on it Jun 07 19:41:53 I think only the steveness can do that Jun 07 19:42:08 can you use old wiimotes on it? Jun 07 19:42:28 yeah, but this remembers me Jun 07 19:42:47 anyone saw more than one wiipad connected to the same console? Jun 07 19:43:08 if they're really streaming video as the marketing person said, that could be a limitation. Jun 07 19:48:55 "Is There a New Geek Anti-Intellectualism?" -- Slashdot Jun 07 19:49:06 aaaaargh, why oh why can't I open a device that dmesg tells me is there Jun 07 19:49:08 * RST38h eeks, reaches for the gun Jun 07 19:49:20 bloody card readers *grumble* Jun 07 19:49:25 RST38h: I see today's slashdot is a minefield Jun 07 19:49:45 javis: feeding grounds for trolls Jun 07 19:49:52 obviously CmdrTaco was awake today Jun 07 19:50:23 Ah, I see what the mean by "anti intellectualism": all those college dropout sysadmins and web coders saying that "college isn't worth the effort" Jun 07 19:50:42 hmm, I think I'll need to use the N900 to format it Jun 07 19:51:18 lardman: why don't you use good old fdisk (the linuxtools one, not the MS abomination) Jun 07 19:51:46 lardman: ignore every complain it makes until you can get to the part where you can destroy fscking everything and create new plain old mbr Jun 07 19:52:18 javispedro: I'm trying to do this under Linux, but it just says it can't find the device Jun 07 19:52:25 is really rather frustrating Jun 07 19:52:32 what device? Jun 07 19:52:37 which program? fdisk? Jun 07 19:52:39 uSD card in card reader Jun 07 19:52:44 yeah fdisk Jun 07 19:52:51 and also mkfs* Jun 07 19:53:00 /dev/sd[abcdefgh..?] Jun 07 19:53:08 yep Jun 07 19:53:31 and you type /dev/sd? and fdisk complains about "No such device"? Jun 07 19:53:55 er.. Jun 07 19:54:04 *type "fdisk /dev/sd?" Jun 07 19:56:00 no i did fdisk /dev/sdf Jun 07 19:56:10 as that is apparently the device name Jun 07 19:56:22 [ 9015.967119] sd 12:0:0:0: [sdf] Attached SCSI removable disk Jun 07 19:57:01 That does not mean the disk has media in Jun 07 19:57:45 well sometimes it is mounted and I can see the contents, then as soon as I umount it I can no longer access the partition or device using mkfs/fsck or fdisk respectively Jun 07 19:57:53 this rings a bell Jun 07 19:58:01 lardman: do you umount it using nautilus/gnome? Jun 07 19:58:12 yeah Jun 07 19:58:27 I'm guessing that might be a mistake? Jun 07 19:58:34 try umounting it using cmd line -- I remember recent nautilus does "something" Jun 07 19:59:02 yep Jun 07 19:59:19 hmm, unfortauntely it's unwilling to mount now Jun 07 19:59:26 I think the fs is knackered Jun 07 19:59:31 vfat rubbish Jun 07 19:59:33 seemingly they try to do the same as the windows eject disk so that devices flush buffers, etc. but this has the side effect that some devices fail to do anything afterwards Jun 07 19:59:46 and it's still not willing to be accessed using fdisk Jun 07 19:59:58 unplug/replug cycle Jun 07 20:00:06 yeah done that a few times Jun 07 20:00:49 I'll stick it in the n900 and format it there, hopefully they we'll be back to somthing useful Jun 07 20:00:51 then, intermittent failure = bad cable, dust in slot, etc. Jun 07 20:01:13 though my Tab doesn't recognise it at all (and this is all just so I can root the tab so I can get on with Meego dev for it) Jun 07 20:01:31 hmm, perhaps I should dig out an old and small camera card Jun 07 20:01:54 anyway /me heads to watch CSI, will let you know how I get on later Jun 07 20:02:05 thanks for the thoughts javispedro re Nautilus Jun 07 20:05:21 cya Jun 07 20:07:25 RST38h: "anti-intellectualism" is is such a bullshit word. Jun 07 20:08:57 It's two words. Jun 07 20:43:27 hi, if anyone can help, I got a warning message of low space on email and that email wd be disabled until freed up space. Which I did. But impossible to download from account IMAP Jun 07 20:44:39 i tried gconf but account seems enabled there. I just cannot find how to re-enable account Jun 07 22:18:57 DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! Jun 08 00:26:26 Hey anyone here use xchat on the N900? Jun 08 00:26:56 i have Jun 08 00:27:40 trying to figure out why I can't post multiple lines if I copy and paste for example Jun 08 00:29:11 Dantonic: xchat doesn't support multiline paste Jun 08 00:29:47 is that only on N900 or also the desktop version? Jun 08 00:29:49 quite a bit annoying Jun 08 00:29:55 I know! Jun 08 00:30:00 what the heck! Jun 08 00:30:11 dunno, no xchat on desktop Jun 08 00:30:27 so there is no way around it huh? Jun 08 00:30:28 wfm Jun 08 00:30:33 on destkop Jun 08 00:30:44 desktop even Jun 08 00:30:49 ok so it's just on the N900 Jun 08 00:30:58 apparently Jun 08 00:31:14 huh Jun 08 00:31:34 Dantonic: *IRC* doesn't support multiple lines Jun 08 00:31:35 *might* be related to this idiotic NK-enter bug in kbd Jun 08 00:32:02 luke-jr so how does mirc do it? Jun 08 00:32:05 * merlin1991 wonders if multiline works in quassel2go Jun 08 00:32:06 should be fixable in xchat then Jun 08 00:32:07 well i prefer to manually remove the newlines too but they do end up in the input line... Jun 08 00:32:10 Dantonic: it doesn't, it sends each line individually Jun 08 00:32:38 s/input line/input box/ Jun 08 00:32:38 nox- meant: well i prefer to manually remove the newlines too but they do end up in the input box... Jun 08 00:32:42 ok... but xchat on N900 does not? Jun 08 00:32:51 Does Jun 08 00:32:51 it work? Jun 08 00:32:59 does :D Jun 08 00:33:10 ? Jun 08 00:33:30 Dantonic: I tried multiline support in quassel2go Jun 08 00:33:56 what's qussel2go? irc client? Jun 08 00:34:00 yes Jun 08 00:34:07 hmm Jun 08 00:35:01 it's really strange why it does NOT work here Jun 08 00:35:05 I'll give it a shot Jun 08 00:35:07 in xchat Jun 08 00:35:24 yeah who maintains it? can it be worked on? :P Jun 08 00:35:30 i like xchat Jun 08 00:35:47 is there a plugin maybe? Jun 08 00:36:17 i have to hit `end' and then cursor right to see the second line in the input box... Jun 08 00:36:20 you maintain it ;-) Jun 08 00:36:48 and n900 doesnt have `end' key (ok lots of cursor right would do it too...) Jun 08 00:37:03 I'm very bad at linux/programming Jun 08 00:37:16 I'm wondering what's keymap in xchat for enter Jun 08 00:37:52 so is it confirmed? it works on desktop? Jun 08 00:38:11 also insert is middle click here and ^v on n900, correct? Jun 08 00:38:22 Dantonic, does for me Jun 08 00:39:04 * nox- wonders if its to do with ^v... Jun 08 00:39:43 I got an idiotic obviously nonfunct entry for KP-enter, in xchat Jun 08 00:40:05 hmm Jun 08 00:40:15 sth about replacing words Jun 08 00:40:27 it's as if it doesn't register the return... it stops at the first line Jun 08 00:40:36 but if I keep pasting then it works Jun 08 00:40:57 if I paste something multiple times I can keep pasting and it will post it Jun 08 00:44:27 any idea what that means? Jun 08 02:08:52 Auto correction pisses me off. Jun 08 02:09:41 So turn it off. Jun 08 02:09:50 The whining on the internets about resistive Wii U touchscreen is hilarious. Jun 08 02:09:57 derf, just did. Not sure how it got turned back on. Jun 08 02:10:03 Gremlins. Jun 08 02:10:19 So they're whining because they don't know how to use a touchscreen that's good? Jun 08 02:10:58 http://www.joystiq.com/2011/06/07/wii-u-controller-has-a-ds-style-touch-screen/#comments Jun 08 02:11:07 "Buuuut its not wat Apple uses!!!" Jun 08 02:59:48 Looks slow here today. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jun 08 02:59:56 2011