**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 08 02:59:56 2011 Jun 08 03:00:17 Wish Stephen Elop logged here. That would stir things up for sure. Jun 08 03:00:43 lol Jun 08 03:01:04 i guess we just hack his box and kickban him from the channel :P Jun 08 03:01:41 Maybe that would be nice. lol Jun 08 03:01:47 Lemme ask something: Jun 08 03:02:01 Is windows just as pirated abroad as it is in my country? Jun 08 03:02:27 I mean, everybody has windows on their machines here. Jun 08 03:02:33 depends on the country Jun 08 03:02:44 in S/E asia and china prolly much more Jun 08 03:03:06 here in germany many people have a legal copy (mostly just because it comes with the computer) Jun 08 03:04:02 recently steve ballmer stated they make less money in china than in holland :P Jun 08 03:05:00 (thats 1.5 billion people vs 12000000 or so, cant remember the exact numbers) Jun 08 03:05:01 Wow. Jun 08 03:05:12 i dont care :) Jun 08 03:05:37 I think I paid once for a copy of windows 95... Jun 08 03:05:41 i dont use windows and i buying computers without it Jun 08 03:05:45 even my laptop Jun 08 03:06:16 Funny enough, that thing had a nasty tendency to forget com and irq pairings. It was plain weird. Jun 08 03:06:42 Well... Maemo was my first linux device. Jun 08 03:07:13 Loving it, so far. The fact that there's a lot of resources that one can run, from other distros, is just awesome. Jun 08 03:08:14 I at times wonder if M$ kinda felt... Frightened of the possibility of people migrating from maemo to a desktop distro... Jun 08 03:08:45 Only reason I haven't done som myself so far is that I'm not sure how well linux handles most games. Jun 08 03:09:09 most games are prolly for windows Jun 08 03:09:19 so with some luck you can run them in wine Jun 08 03:09:43 http://sauerbraten.org/ but there are enough nice free games Jun 08 03:10:06 well and all kinds of clones of some games Jun 08 03:10:18 i dont game *that* much Jun 08 03:12:36 * Arcueid_ checking above link Jun 08 03:13:06 My desktop has been mostly build around gaming as a prerequisite, so that tells a lot... Jun 08 03:13:16 I haven't experimented with free gaming, yet. Jun 08 03:13:38 Man, I feel so that dude from "Easy rider", when the bikers offer him pot, saying that, lol Jun 08 03:37:56 is there a decent email client for the N900 Jun 08 04:36:03 morning Jun 08 04:42:06 cehteh: red eclipse is a better game imo Jun 08 04:42:21 (same cube2 engine like sauerbraten) Jun 08 05:22:08 DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! Jun 08 05:29:27 is DocScrutinizer the owner of this chan? Jun 08 05:30:06 he seems pretty cool and such but just wondering Jun 08 06:45:26 morning Jun 08 06:49:23 Venemo, o/ Jun 08 06:50:18 mece, o7 Jun 08 06:51:58 dangergrrl, there is no real owner of the chan Jun 08 06:52:19 dangergrrl, he's one of the ops, at one time, GeneralAntilles had ownership of the chan, but now I think it's X-Fade Jun 08 06:52:39 (just for bureaucratic reasons, mainly) Jun 08 07:09:40 Morning, all Jun 08 07:14:39 well he seems smarter than me and it bothers me but it is ok Jun 08 07:23:41 good morning Jun 08 07:24:41 morning Termana & Jaffa Jun 08 07:45:30 <_trine> -ChanServ- Information on #maemo: Jun 08 07:45:30 <_trine> -ChanServ- Founder : X-Fade Jun 08 07:45:30 <_trine> -ChanServ- Registered : May 25 15:41:01 2005 (6 years, 2 weeks, 0 days, 16:03:49 ago) Jun 08 07:45:30 <_trine> -ChanServ- Mode lock : -s Jun 08 07:45:30 <_trine> -ChanServ- URL : http://maemo.org Jun 08 07:45:31 <_trine> -ChanServ- Flags : GUARD Jun 08 07:45:33 <_trine> -ChanServ- *** End of Info *** Jun 08 07:57:00 guten morgens Jun 08 07:58:22 trine i know there are other players but thank you Jun 08 07:58:35 <_trine> np Jun 08 08:36:20 morning Jun 08 08:36:37 remorning all Jun 08 08:52:29 is there a custom 2.6.3x kernel out there yet? Jun 08 08:52:55 for.... the n900? Jun 08 08:54:12 Termana: yes Jun 08 08:54:25 I want to use it with fedora arm rootfs, so wondering is there is one Jun 08 08:55:29 Oh right. Well, you could just compile an upstream one, from what I've been told there are only a couple of out-of-tree patch differences between it and the MeeGo one. Jun 08 08:56:14 what version is meego at? Jun 08 08:56:36 ah, I can see a 2.6.37 one Jun 08 08:59:06 hi, using maemo 5 on N900. I have had a recent problem where I received a warning that some email accounts would be disabled as not enough space, until space was cleared (paraphrasing). Jun 08 08:59:30 this is due to the fact that Modest downloaded all attachments on my IMAP email accounts. Jun 08 08:59:42 hiemanshu, ah, I read what version you were requesting wrong :p Jun 08 09:00:11 I have since cleared up space and used gconf to configure download "messages" instead of "messages-and-attachements" as key value (no idea if this will work) Jun 08 09:00:31 but impossible to have modest restart updating the disable accounts Jun 08 09:00:37 anyone here have any idea? Jun 08 09:00:52 never had that Jun 08 09:01:17 have you got 20GB attachments in you inbox? Jun 08 09:01:49 chem|st: I have or had lots of PDF attachments from work but of course not 20 GBS Jun 08 09:02:13 it seems to put the attachments on a 2GB /home partition and not on the 20GB one Jun 08 09:02:53 I can probably delete the email account and re-add it I suppose Jun 08 09:03:02 mickey mouse workaround but might work Jun 08 09:04:48 what about cgonf settings for modest? anyone here familiar with the key: download where the value is "messages-and-attachments" ? Jun 08 09:06:20 I need packaging advice Jun 08 09:06:36 may I used pypackeger? Jun 08 09:11:12 Is there any way to get rid of 'qtc_packaging' dir and tell QtCreator to use debian/ directory? Jun 08 09:22:19 http://qt.nokia.com/products/qt-for-mobile-platforms interesting to see Harmattan mentioned there Jun 08 09:22:57 lardman, Harmattan is mentioned everywhere in Qt Jun 08 09:23:04 oh right Jun 08 09:23:12 well come on Nokia let's have a device then! ;) Jun 08 09:23:19 there's a define (Q_WS_MAEMO_6), Qt Creator has a Harmattan publish feature etc.. Jun 08 09:23:38 oh right, I've been using a rather old SDK version for the N900 dev Jun 08 09:23:48 and I don't read the docs either ;) Jun 08 09:25:29 newest Qt Creator is way better than the one bundled with QtSDK 1.1 Jun 08 09:26:33 I'm just installing now on my work Windows box as I have some UI dev to do there Jun 08 09:26:44 so, there doesn't appear to be a program to lock the n900 display, when proximity sensor says there is something near. Jun 08 09:27:00 is it just plain bad idea or hasn't the thought crossed any developer's mind?-) Jun 08 09:28:29 the former I'd guess :p Jun 08 09:28:43 proximity sensor doesn't detect distance, it's either open or closed Jun 08 09:29:06 I get that Jun 08 09:29:12 but it should detect that it's in the pocket Jun 08 09:29:24 of course, should I stick my finger over it, it would react then as well Jun 08 09:29:33 yeah Jun 08 09:29:40 but, it would be nice to try Jun 08 09:29:49 because it's also a bother to make sure the device is locked before putting into pocket Jun 08 09:31:00 then there is the thing that I assume using the sensor consumes power.. ? Jun 08 09:31:09 proximity? it's always on Jun 08 09:31:13 oh, nice Jun 08 09:31:23 so in principle it could also unlock when the sensor says there's nothing there Jun 08 09:32:58 what happens to the phone ui when you bloxk the sensor? does it just stop accepting input or does it blank the screen? Jun 08 09:34:40 * lardman lacks an eye in his cheek so has never noticed Jun 08 09:36:34 which scanner do the guys here use under linux? Jun 08 09:36:45 scanner? Jun 08 09:36:51 like for paper pages? Jun 08 09:37:10 yes Jun 08 09:37:27 I have some old scanner here, it just works (TM) Jun 08 09:37:29 I used to have an epson 1500 and now think of buying a new one Jun 08 09:37:41 which? Jun 08 09:37:51 I just used an older HP all in one cheapy Jun 08 09:37:55 they work fairly nicely Jun 08 09:38:53 ...Y'know, I think I found out the reason N900's seem to slow down, crash not work as well etc. Jun 08 09:38:58 and why reflashing fixes it Jun 08 09:39:35 It's the OptFS getting corrupt. Today, it took like 2 minutes for it to start, programs were sometimes sluggish, hildon-home went crazy for a bit... Jun 08 09:40:01 ran fsck on it, found a LOT of errors, and after fixing everything, running badblocks etc... it now boots in 30 seconds or so Jun 08 10:06:24 I didnt see an answer so let me try again Jun 08 10:07:04 may I use PyPackager to package my app for maemo5 or should I follow the http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing#Creating_Debian_Packages Jun 08 10:07:08 ? Jun 08 10:07:51 ~seen Khertan Jun 08 10:07:55 khertan <~khertan@AAmiens-553-1-179-16.w92-142.abo.wanadoo.fr> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 21h 17m 15s ago, saying: 'i ll look thx'. Jun 08 11:10:06 one of Nintendo's chief game designers, Katsuya Eguchi, confirmed that the system's proprietary disc format will hold 25 Gigabytes of data. Jun 08 11:45:49 * DocScrutinizer wonders what's wrong with infobot saying hello when joining the chan Jun 08 11:46:17 not my idea she says "hello DocScrutinizer" Jun 08 11:48:16 _trine: crashanddie: thanks for putting straight Jun 08 11:55:13 yw Jun 08 11:56:09 hmm, any guess how long n900s will be in stock at online retailers? Jun 08 11:56:29 good question Jun 08 12:00:28 Depends. Jun 08 12:00:32 Is ebay a retailer? Jun 08 12:00:44 In which case, I'd suspect you'll be able to buy them for at least a decade. Jun 08 12:01:39 is there a decent N900 email client? Jun 08 12:01:46 modest is meh :P Jun 08 12:02:19 nop Jun 08 12:02:21 nope Jun 08 12:02:39 Yes!... The gmail web client. :P Jun 08 12:02:54 Thanks to the browser, you get all sorts of webapps. Jun 08 12:03:20 possible to compile one for it? Jun 08 12:05:40 anyone up for coding Nokia Bubbles? Jun 08 12:07:35 Is it a simulation of what happens when you drop an Elop into lava? Jun 08 12:08:10 crashanddie, is gitorious down or just being crappy atm? Jun 08 12:09:00 MohammadAG, it's up AFAICT Jun 08 12:12:19 MohammadAG: in Python sure, anyother language, no :P Jun 08 12:13:31 http://i52.tinypic.com/24o850w.jpg proof of concept lockscreen "replacement" Jun 08 12:13:51 feel free to write some custom lockscreens with QML :P Jun 08 12:14:10 time is nice, but date is missing. ;-) Jun 08 12:14:47 who cares, it's foss :p Jun 08 12:15:30 hehe Jun 08 12:17:10 MohammadAG, nice, where's the source? Jun 08 12:17:22 https://gitorious.org/maemo5-foss-lockscreen/lockscreen-concept Jun 08 12:17:44 it's pretty much copy and paste what's there and code your own UI Jun 08 12:18:36 MohammadAG, can we use a declarative view for this? Jun 08 12:19:22 mece, sure, why not Jun 08 12:19:41 MohammadAG thanks for the git link. Jun 08 12:19:50 FYI I use Qt::Dialog to make hildon-desktop believe it's a dialog (it's a QMainWindow), that way CTRL+Backspace is ignored Jun 08 12:19:56 we could even leave the qml outside qrc, so people could hack the looks on device if they feel like it... Jun 08 12:19:57 GonzoTheGreat, yw :) Jun 08 12:20:10 MohammadAG, sweet! Jun 08 12:20:25 it needs one extra check Jun 08 12:20:25 As I said in the thread. I will make declarativ version as well as static Jun 08 12:20:40 GonzoTheGreat, there's a thread? Jun 08 12:20:42 it always assumes the screen is locked Jun 08 12:20:45 why isn't anything in python? :( Jun 08 12:20:55 Python is slow Jun 08 12:20:59 the iphone battery widget one Jun 08 12:21:01 what MohammadAG said Jun 08 12:21:16 not really no Jun 08 12:21:21 (at least on a 600MHz device) Jun 08 12:21:32 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=73828 mece Jun 08 12:21:37 The only problem I see with this is the memory usage Jun 08 12:21:39 hiemanshu, which UI toolkit? Jun 08 12:21:48 yeah I posted in that thread already, LOL *bonk self* Jun 08 12:21:49 MohammadAG: Qt Jun 08 12:21:57 I know a bit of QML as well Jun 08 12:22:15 I looove qml Jun 08 12:22:26 not a big fan of writing qml Jun 08 12:22:28 mostly because I don't know c++ properly Jun 08 12:22:41 requires way too much effort imo, but in the end you get a nice UI Jun 08 12:22:47 Hopefully able to work on it tomorrow. Jun 08 12:22:51 and lots of memory usage *cough* Jun 08 12:22:58 MohammadAG, effort from the device or the coder? Jun 08 12:23:04 coder Jun 08 12:23:07 both Jun 08 12:23:11 you need to reimplement stuff Jun 08 12:23:26 MohammadAG, it's heavy on the memory but sure is easy and fast to make cool stuff. Jun 08 12:24:31 For now I have lock unlock working using the power and slider buttons Jun 08 12:24:55 that's what the concept shows Jun 08 12:25:02 it overlays the stock lockscreen Jun 08 12:25:09 MohammadAG, does the concept replace the lock screen? Jun 08 12:25:13 ok overlays., Jun 08 12:25:21 mece, replacing it is a huge effort Jun 08 12:25:26 ok Jun 08 12:25:29 yep looks similar Jun 08 12:25:33 since the same plugin that handles locking actually shows the UI Jun 08 12:25:51 does overlaying it cause problems? Jun 08 12:25:53 (bad coding by whoever did it @ Nokia) Jun 08 12:26:05 nope Jun 08 12:26:24 well then who cares? I think we can live with the extra memory needed.. Jun 08 12:26:30 as long as we keep it simple enough Jun 08 12:27:07 GonzoTheGreat, so.. merge with MohammadAG's concept? Jun 08 12:27:13 Have you tried to remove the tk.so and seel what happens. I wasn't brave enough/ in flashing mood Jun 08 12:27:26 sure. I will clone the git Jun 08 12:27:27 Yes, again that handles locking Jun 08 12:27:44 so you'd need handle screen blanking, connect with mce and read when to lock the screen etc Jun 08 12:27:56 doing all that Jun 08 12:27:57 I was looking in to replacing the whole locking bit, but seemed like a lot of hard work Jun 08 12:28:09 basically, you're rewriting an mce plugin Jun 08 12:28:57 I wanted the lock screen to pop up when you touch the screen (if proximity sensor not active) instead of having to poke at powerswitch Jun 08 12:29:04 I was wondering if removing the plugin will crash anything or just stops it from showing the lock screen Jun 08 12:29:19 GonzoTheGreat, you can't lock the device in any way Jun 08 12:29:24 nothing will crash Jun 08 12:29:25 well the signals would go nowhere Jun 08 12:29:30 right Jun 08 12:29:43 mece, there won't be any signals Jun 08 12:29:47 is it a dbus signal that locks the device? Jun 08 12:29:57 yep Jun 08 12:30:06 yes, and it's handled by that .so file Jun 08 12:30:24 ok. I get it now Jun 08 12:30:25 which is wrong, again, bad coding by Nokia Jun 08 12:30:46 here's a binary if anyone wants to give it a shot http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/lockscreen-concept Jun 08 12:30:47 so replacing the dbus service and making it point to something else? Jun 08 12:30:55 frustrating Jun 08 12:31:19 mece, so write a library that reads mce's config and handles blanking without breaking anything :p Jun 08 12:31:31 well therein lies the problem Jun 08 12:32:33 as I said, a lot of hard work. And I don't need that feature (show lockscreen when screen touched and proximity sensor = 0) that much. And I'm glad that overlaying works. Jun 08 12:32:51 One could implement all sorts of cool stuff. A widget type lock screen with custom info and stuff :) Jun 08 12:32:59 stuff and stuff Jun 08 12:33:26 That's what I am working on Jun 08 12:34:02 mediaplayer controls, notifications, possibilities are endless Jun 08 12:34:41 anyway I've got to go.Perhaps a new thread could be started in development on tmo GonzoTheGreat Jun 08 12:34:47 tata Jun 08 12:35:23 As I said we can do it quick-widgets style. I willm create some bindings so people can customize Jun 08 12:36:16 I wonder if the qml files in Nokia Bubbles' .sis file are encrypted Jun 08 12:36:19 or compiled Jun 08 12:36:29 Is it possible to have voice guidance to the Ovi Maps navi? Jun 08 12:36:36 (on N900) Jun 08 12:36:40 So, is there any way to make both dpkg-buildpackage and qtcreator happy? I mean to keep one debian/qtc_packaging directory or smth like that. Jun 08 12:38:48 Bubbles. Interesting. Jun 08 12:39:43 Has probably a fair bit of c++ backing Jun 08 12:39:59 I can write that, no problems there Jun 08 12:40:19 (with proper signals/slots) Jun 08 12:41:10 I wonder if there's a way to unpack a sis on linux Jun 08 12:43:59 moo moh Jun 08 12:44:02 I know we could do it. I was talk Jun 08 12:44:24 about te usefulness of the qml if available Jun 08 12:44:27 moo javispedro Jun 08 12:44:38 mooouuu Jun 08 12:44:42 o/ DocScrutinizer & javispedro Jun 08 12:45:29 javispedro: is alsaped open? Jun 08 12:45:55 away from workstation atm Jun 08 12:46:11 thought you might know off top of your head Jun 08 12:46:15 GonzoTheGreat, well, if it uses signals/slots we could use the same method names in the C++ code Jun 08 12:46:30 nm then Jun 08 12:46:58 sure but I think the qml is the least amount of work. Jun 08 12:47:13 to you, maybe, to me? not so much :p Jun 08 12:47:32 for custom stuff it is alm Jun 08 12:47:48 ost all c++ anyway Jun 08 12:47:53 oops Jun 08 12:48:27 DocScrutinizer, Jun 08 12:48:28 [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > apt-cache search alsa-policy-enforcement Jun 08 12:48:37 [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > Jun 08 12:49:39 javispedro: you ever got aware of a thing named /usr/lib/alsa-lib/smixer/smixer-python.so ? Jun 08 12:49:51 > apt-cache search awesome_developer Jun 08 12:50:11 apt-cache show MohammadAG Jun 08 12:50:31 :P Jun 08 12:50:41 MohammadAG: thanks... Jun 08 12:51:01 DOCSCRUTINIZAR Jun 08 12:51:05 OOPS Jun 08 12:51:13 Fscking autocompletion Jun 08 12:51:18 javispedro: it's shining up as missing when I use amixer --abstract basic Jun 08 12:51:58 my magic 8 ball says alsaped is closed Jun 08 12:52:07 either way, does not seem interesting Jun 08 12:52:18 seems to be a way to mess with alsa properties like control names etc, maybe Jun 08 12:52:51 probably easily replacabe by a python script, but I bet its C for performance Jun 08 12:53:04 as it seems to set tens of mixers every time Jun 08 12:53:04 javispedro: indeed an proper spec and manpage about alsaped would be way more interesting Jun 08 12:54:11 from what I remember from fmradio policy daemon just sends a dbus msg saying sth like Jun 08 12:54:27 src=microphone, out=speaker Jun 08 12:54:35 this friggin smixer-python.so is available for buntkuh and mint and a few other, but seems is not a generally adopted bit of sw Jun 08 12:54:57 and alsaped goes through its .ini-like settings file and sets smixers as appropiate Jun 08 12:55:00 MohammadAG: about mce again. Do you know whats's happening on lock. disable keyboard, backlight? Jun 08 12:55:14 Docscrutinizer: why are you interested in python? Jun 08 12:55:48 just interested in amixer --abstract and what it's doing in a broader view of ALSA concept Jun 08 12:55:57 ah Jun 08 12:56:04 disable keyboard -> emit appropriate signal, disable backlight -> emit appropriate signal, disable touchscreen -> emit signal Jun 08 12:56:09 and I bet its written in Python =) Jun 08 12:56:16 dim and blank screen -> emit signal Jun 08 12:56:27 are all these accessible? Jun 08 12:57:07 javispedro: I fail to get a grip on it so far Jun 08 12:57:28 javispedro: not even fekkin `man amixer` even mentions --abstract Jun 08 12:57:38 o.O Jun 08 12:57:46 no idea what that does Jun 08 12:58:24 but tbh I do not want to learn about yet more alsalib ABSTRACTion crap. Jun 08 12:58:29 omg my sister wants me to remove beard Jun 08 12:58:30 I think iz's a hook into smixer lib(?) to mess with all sorts of control properties Jun 08 12:58:42 GonzoTheGreat, having two apps emitting signals on the same DBus path/interface isn't a good thing to do Jun 08 12:58:47 and just have a 'tache Jun 08 12:58:52 in fact, I'm not sure if DBus will handle it Jun 08 12:59:00 lcuk: rebel. Jun 08 12:59:01 * lcuk needs more people voting for full beard Jun 08 12:59:08 javispedro, I did by growing it in the first place Jun 08 12:59:14 what if we remove the tklock.so? Jun 08 12:59:31 * replace Jun 08 13:00:49 lcuk: you're kindly invited to link to my avatar Jun 08 13:01:23 GonzoTheGreat, I suggest dropping that idea completely Jun 08 13:01:43 unless you want to rewrite it as a proper mce plugin Jun 08 13:01:49 I cannot believe morons are bashing Nintendo for going resistive Jun 08 13:01:58 * DocScrutinizer wonders what's been "the idea" fist place Jun 08 13:02:03 OMG resistive sucks!!!1 Jun 08 13:02:44 * javispedro puts on trolling hat and robe and clicks "reply" Jun 08 13:02:57 \o/ Jun 08 13:03:16 * DocScrutinizer fetching popcorn and asking "LINK?" Jun 08 13:03:26 Ok so we should stick with the overlay?! Jun 08 13:04:03 Docscrutinizer: anonymous trolling is more effective, so no link =) Jun 08 13:04:22 so I wrote my first C++ Qt app :D It takes two numbers and add em, well its a start :) Jun 08 13:04:26 GonzoTheGreat: could you give me a timestamp or unique keyword to search for, so I find out what's been your idea? Jun 08 13:05:36 hiemanshu, congratulations :) Jun 08 13:06:41 lcuk: thank you, Qt is nice, know quite a bit of it, its the C++ part thats kinda scary :P Jun 08 13:06:45 now you can use your "addition" machine logic to create "multiplication" Jun 08 13:06:49 No name: I suggest having two lock screen options. 1) c++ static with configuration to turn things on/off e.g. battery status, song info etc Jun 08 13:06:51 with the simple inclusion of a loop Jun 08 13:07:10 hiemanshu: duh, Qt *is* C++ Jun 08 13:07:17 no Jun 08 13:07:25 DocScrutinizer: I meant, I know PyQt :P Jun 08 13:07:31 2) blank slate qml. with just bindings provided thta you can do your own Jun 08 13:07:33 aaah Jun 08 13:07:45 DocScrutinizer: I have written quite a few PyQt apps Jun 08 13:08:11 yeah, then you had rather little to deal with C++ Jun 08 13:08:17 option two will most likely use more memory. Jun 08 13:08:36 except all the bindings. Jun 08 13:09:08 Unless you use the qprocess binidings I have done for quick-widgets Jun 08 13:09:45 I see Jun 08 13:09:47 DocScrutinizer: yeah, all I did was use Qt Designer to design ui, then pyuic4 to convert it to python code, include it and done Jun 08 13:10:24 Options 2) is what I will do first. Jun 08 13:11:03 All you get is auto-rotation and an unlock binding Jun 08 13:11:16 to start with Jun 08 13:11:26 probably nothing wrong with it, GonzoTheGreat - aiui it takes memory only during state=locked Jun 08 13:11:56 nope. because it will only be unmapped not destroyed Jun 08 13:12:10 :-/ Jun 08 13:13:17 Ok so we should stick with the overlay?! Jun 08 13:13:20 yes, what's wrong with it? Jun 08 13:13:33 * DocScrutinizer curses QML for being another tool designed to ease developers' daywork at the expense of eating *everybody's* RAM Jun 08 13:14:08 hehe Jun 08 13:14:10 of course Jun 08 13:14:18 anything that eases development will goble up ram Jun 08 13:14:21 MohammadAG: what do you mean? Jun 08 13:14:52 what's wrong with the overlay? Jun 08 13:14:56 it doesn't break stuff Jun 08 13:15:53 In your example is the original lock scre Jun 08 13:16:05 what Jun 08 13:16:13 "look, this calculator can do + - * /, and it's expensive because it needs 2MB RAM - this is needed as it allowed our sw devels to use a tool that cut our sw development expense by 50%" Jun 08 13:16:14 en flashing up briefly? Jun 08 13:16:40 no, it can't flash briefly since it's stacked under the example Jun 08 13:17:08 ok. sorry I didn't get a chance to try it yet. Jun 08 13:17:20 sounds good then. Jun 08 13:17:31 Docscrutinizer: ram is cheap, programmers are expensive Jun 08 13:17:57 SoC RAM isn't Jun 08 13:18:02 (battery life, on the other side..) Jun 08 13:18:35 GonzoTheGreat: a gigabyte or so for $100? cheap. Jun 08 13:18:36 indeed, and RAM gets paid by assraped end users while developers are only doing a poor job to proove their own awesomness Jun 08 13:19:33 I.E. get poor untalented devels to give you a cheap sw you can run on expensive hw Jun 08 13:19:37 javispedro: but 100 users buying ram are not so cheap anymore Jun 08 13:20:01 and if you think about piece of shit called SAP Jun 08 13:20:09 that needs like gazillion servers to run Jun 08 13:20:12 DocScrutinizer, just wait until the next generation come about Jun 08 13:20:17 and lot of companies are using it Jun 08 13:20:25 I bet you mean shipping 100 devices with +$100 RAM Jun 08 13:20:27 those who will use New Super Wooooot inducing paradigm that grows on QML Jun 08 13:20:31 lcuk: can't wait for it... Jun 08 13:20:35 :D Jun 08 13:20:49 vs shipping 100 devices without that many RAM and hiring real developers. Jun 08 13:21:07 yes Jun 08 13:21:07 DocScrutinizer, this is not qml: http://liqbase.net/liq.20110607_220246.liqdesign2.scr.png Jun 08 13:21:15 jacekowski: And of course - 'upgrade' - has been the mantra of devs for the last 20 years. 'ram is cheap' Jun 08 13:21:16 javispedro, ^ also Jun 08 13:21:34 And indeed it is - generally - if it's a 2-3 year old desktop. Jun 08 13:21:39 Otherwise - not so much. Jun 08 13:21:49 ram is cheap but i prefer to spend £50 on something else Jun 08 13:22:03 where do I plug in ram upgrade on my n900? Jun 08 13:22:17 lcuk: Exacly. Jun 08 13:22:34 into memory card slot Jun 08 13:22:35 lcuk: Well - the strict answer is 'on top of the processor, after desoldering existing RAM' Jun 08 13:22:36 it's called swap Jun 08 13:22:43 * SpeedEvil stabs jacekowski. Jun 08 13:22:49 * DocScrutinizer announces the international QML bashing day Jun 08 13:22:50 hmm Jun 08 13:22:54 thinking about that Jun 08 13:22:55 Yeaaaah Jun 08 13:22:57 it could work Jun 08 13:23:01 jacekowski, and plaster of paris is an ideal replacement for a pair of jeans. Jun 08 13:23:06 SD - RAM card would be somewhat cool. Jun 08 13:23:21 you need more memory => you run less things. don't ya ever learn from master steve jobs? Jun 08 13:23:22 Speed: will still be slow Jun 08 13:23:29 there is a controller between you and the card Jun 08 13:23:35 Though optimised for flash swap, and SD supporting TRIM could be not quite as shitty. Jun 08 13:23:39 RST38h: controller can do more than average sd card Jun 08 13:23:39 RST38h: Of course. Jun 08 13:23:50 An 8bit or 16bit controller, with an 8bit or 16bit data path Jun 08 13:24:02 RST38h: But 12 meg a second is a hell of a lot better than most swap gets. Jun 08 13:24:08 (and I know it's not nearly enough) Jun 08 13:24:09 And with no more than 8bit path to the SD card (this is for MMC+ only) Jun 08 13:24:24 I find it amusing that the SD card itsself has a CPU that's faster than my oldest phone's main CPU. Jun 08 13:24:27 For your standard plasticky SD cards it is no more than 4 bits Jun 08 13:24:35 you need more memory => you run less things. don't ya ever learn from master steve jobs? <-- is that why it took Apple that long to enable multitasking on their iphones since the beginning when it couldn't even really multitask? Jun 08 13:24:38 /me is amused at the tangent Jun 08 13:24:56 psycho_oreos: you! Jun 08 13:25:14 psycho_oreos: you'll find current iphones can't even multitask. Jun 08 13:25:19 Very good read - http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=918 Jun 08 13:25:37 Bunnie decapsulates a bunch of micro-SD cards. Jun 08 13:25:43 how do I do /me in the irc conversation plugin? Jun 08 13:26:13 javispedro, still! lol must be epic despite all the people moaning about the lack of multitasking capabilities. Jun 08 13:26:18 kick that plugin, get a decent IRC client! Jun 08 13:26:32 multitask what is that? Jun 08 13:26:42 Dibblah: known, but thanks Jun 08 13:26:44 convenienent Jun 08 13:26:54 ~google multitask Jun 08 13:27:03 lol damn Jun 08 13:27:23 google made her blow chunks Jun 08 13:27:37 ~wiki multitask Jun 08 13:27:41 At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multitask (URL), Wikipedia explains: "'Multitasking' may refer to any of the following: *Computer multitasking - the apparent simultaneous performance of two or more tasks by a computer's central processing unit *Media multitasking could involve using a computer, mp3, or any other form of media in conjunction with one another. *Human multitasking - The ability of a person to perform more than one task at the same time. " Jun 08 13:28:15 nice! too bad google had to go though :) rather handy to harness a big search machine Jun 08 13:28:17 DocScrutinizer: I know, its just I use an iPhone too, and well it mutlitasks decently Jun 08 13:29:12 ~botsnack Jun 08 13:29:12 DocScrutinizer: :) Jun 08 13:30:11 infobot: good bot Jun 08 13:30:11 DocScrutinizer: aw, gee Jun 08 13:33:52 off to bed for me. Back tomorrow. Jun 08 13:33:52 as decently as my palm pilot. Jun 08 13:36:55 I don't think there's much confusion around apple's strategy regarding multitasking in iPhones. They didn't like the andridiot approach, and were scared about the maemo syndrome Jun 08 13:37:30 so they invented their own way to deal with the issue Jun 08 13:37:59 like they do with every other case Jun 08 13:38:25 they didn't, they just replicated the way palm solved the issue last decade Jun 08 13:38:51 e.g. antennagate issue, their solution? `We're not the ones at fault, other handsets have this issue as well.' Jun 08 13:39:05 now that it turns out maemo approach *can* work, apple is going to slowly gradually adopt this, by allowing a few "multitasking" bits Jun 08 13:39:25 I bet they will do the android way first Jun 08 13:40:52 honestly I'd prefer to go back to QML bashing - iPhone bashing is lame and boring Jun 08 13:40:55 that is, your app is active but can TERM at any moment if not used in last N time units, and apps are STOPped when screen off Jun 08 13:41:27 qml sucks. just go the html5 route Jun 08 13:41:28 uck Jun 08 13:41:31 license webos! Jun 08 13:41:37 but hp! Jun 08 13:41:39 hate that "fake multitasking" Jun 08 13:41:44 (or, be bought by HP!) Jun 08 13:41:55 what are we talking about that might do that Jun 08 13:42:01 ? Jun 08 13:42:31 rm_work: the one I described? that is android. Jun 08 13:42:46 yes Jun 08 13:42:57 but you said "I bet they will do the android way first"... who is "they"? Jun 08 13:43:04 apple Jun 08 13:43:05 el jobso Jun 08 13:43:17 but iOS already has a method for that? Jun 08 13:43:26 why would they be just starting it Jun 08 13:43:29 na, their current one is palmos-like Jun 08 13:43:42 right, so what do you mean "first"? Jun 08 13:43:44 just sigstop Jun 08 13:43:49 they already have a multitasking method Jun 08 13:44:13 indeed, that's a bit confusing Jun 08 13:44:32 palmos: only one UI process. every app gets stopped when you get back to homescreen/launcher, started when you launch it Jun 08 13:44:45 devs get to implement their own state loading/saving routines Jun 08 13:45:03 iOS is way beyond that internally Jun 08 13:45:27 and you have notificacions so that not running apps can get exec() when something interesting happens Jun 08 13:45:44 they already have real dispatcher, and only simulate the palm way Jun 08 13:45:48 like "audio buffer nearly empty" or "network activity on port 7777" Jun 08 13:46:09 Docscrutinizer: if you mean they have a preemptive multitasking base Os, Jun 08 13:46:16 be prepared to be surprised. Jun 08 13:46:22 o.O Jun 08 13:46:24 the palm pilot also had one. Jun 08 13:46:29 duh Jun 08 13:46:31 ok Jun 08 13:46:46 the rule is : just one UI process. Jun 08 13:47:19 so it's kinda like maemo with no apps but desktop widgets ;-P Jun 08 13:48:17 cheers for QML, fits in there quite nicely X-P Jun 08 13:48:19 didn't the old iOS lacked widgets? Jun 08 13:48:41 that's cause every app is a "widget" Jun 08 13:48:47 on iOS Jun 08 13:48:51 aiui Jun 08 13:48:58 j/k Jun 08 13:49:16 well i do not think ios puts all all of them in the same process Jun 08 13:49:23 just kidding a lil bit Jun 08 13:49:50 yeah, iOS is way beyond that, that's what I said Jun 08 13:50:14 and I don't see iOS adopt that concept now Jun 08 13:50:28 that's what rm_work said Jun 08 13:51:36 on pos the ui process just exec()d into app X, and expected app X to eventually exec() back into the launcher Jun 08 13:51:58 I'd expect ios to have a bit more "protection" :P Jun 08 13:52:17 wouldn't it be *EASIER* just to do proper multitasking? >_> Jun 08 13:52:22 even if the core idea is the same Jun 08 13:52:32 or is all this about saving battery Jun 08 13:52:39 rm_work: batter life Jun 08 13:52:41 rm_work: benefit: week long batterylife for pilot Jun 08 13:52:51 heh Jun 08 13:52:55 compare with wince models of the day Jun 08 13:53:12 or maemo <_< Jun 08 13:53:24 i get ~18h battery life Jun 08 13:54:02 ok no, *sometimes* i can get 36-40 hours Jun 08 13:54:10 but that's with "light usage" Jun 08 13:54:27 (I put that in quotes because light usage for me might be what some consider moderate usage) Jun 08 13:58:50 heh. nintendo admits using xbox360 footage for yesterdays wiiU demo. Jun 08 13:59:26 not for all the footage though Jun 08 13:59:30 the bird one was the most impressive one Jun 08 13:59:47 independant cameras with independant blur, 1080p and 480p Jun 08 13:59:48 I'd expect to be disappointed when the specs are announced Jun 08 14:02:00 according to random internet guy mr. guy the sdk had 4 core ppc with smt clocked at 3.5, so that's the upper bound :) Jun 08 14:11:53 ...he intends to exterminate Australia's vast population of feral camels by means of gunfire from helicopters and jeeps, so preventing the beasts from unleashing a deadly planet-wrecking miasma of greenhouse gas from their rumbling guts... Jun 08 14:15:51 * krayon feels safe Jun 08 14:19:39 RST38h, I'm all for it Jun 08 14:19:51 RST38h, as long as the camel meat is sent to countries where they need it Jun 08 14:20:29 rm_work: I get like 7 days of standby here, same as with palmpilot basically Jun 08 14:21:03 Where are these camels anyway? There's none here in Melbourne that I can see :/ Jun 08 14:21:11 and palmpilot also was dead after 4 hours of playing a game that had constantly moving sprites Jun 08 14:25:39 ~seen Khertan Jun 08 14:25:52 khertan <~khertan@AAmiens-553-1-179-16.w92-142.abo.wanadoo.fr> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 1h 35m 11s ago, saying: 'i ll look thx'. Jun 08 15:31:15 Speculation time. Jun 08 15:31:31 So, assume we've got some sort of announcement coming up on the 21st. Jun 08 15:31:56 But, as of right now, we have no real information about hardware or software. Jun 08 15:32:05 Most notably: no SDK. Jun 08 15:32:48 Given the rumors about the consumer and the dev device Jun 08 15:33:08 It's a t-shirt. Jun 08 15:33:18 does that mean the announcement coming up will basically be an SDK release with hardware? Jun 08 15:33:26 SpeedEvil: plain, or does it have a print? Jun 08 15:33:37 SpeedEvil, and how much RAM? Jun 08 15:33:55 also WHAT DOES IT HAVE ON THE BACKPRINT? Jun 08 15:34:07 * merlin1991 out Jun 08 15:34:59 When was the n900/maemo 5 SDK released? Jun 08 15:35:07 Before/after announce/ Jun 08 15:39:35 aanounce of what? Jun 08 15:39:46 N900 Jun 08 15:39:46 It was released before announcement iirc, but only to some devs Jun 08 15:40:00 that a N810+1 would be released was known since forever, like we know a N900+1 will be released these days Jun 08 15:40:06 by that logic, sdk was after announcement Jun 08 15:40:12 ah no, it was released beforehand to everyone wasn't it, and Nokia asked everyone to prepare their packages Jun 08 15:40:15 now, official announcement of the device happened way after SDK... Jun 08 15:40:19 *beta sdk Jun 08 15:40:28 yep Jun 08 15:41:11 GAN900: I have the same questions though, if we do see some hw, will it just be for devs and come with an SDK and api docs all prepared Jun 08 15:41:30 in preparation for some other consumer device to come at a later date for example Jun 08 15:41:59 or perhaps Harmattan is good enough to not need developers' apps to begin with :) Jun 08 15:42:14 or they do not care any more Jun 08 15:42:20 an option that gets my vote.. Jun 08 15:42:58 possible, hard to know what's going on with the dearth of communications Jun 08 15:43:45 SpeedEvil, a months before hardware. Jun 08 15:43:51 GeneralAntilles: Ah - thanks Jun 08 15:44:05 http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5-0/ Jun 08 15:46:31 Wait. Harmattan SDK out? Jun 08 15:46:50 No Jun 08 15:47:54 Oh wow! http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_6/ Jun 08 15:48:01 (is completely blank) Jun 08 15:51:16 nope, says 404 for me Jun 08 15:52:17 Qt Creator says Maemo 6/Harmattan somewhere Jun 08 15:57:14 lardman: that's all my hope - "meego harmattan turns out to be just maemo5 with some custom themes" see http://xkcd.com/424 Jun 08 15:58:23 I mean, really WHO would want to see devels move to a platform that's neither backward compatible to maemo5, nor forward compatible to anything never to come Jun 08 15:59:49 wasn't there a 3D version of xkcd at some point? Jun 08 15:59:56 * DocScrutinizer waiting for the usual apologetics to jump up and shouting "BUT, BUT... there's Qt!!!" Jun 08 16:01:24 MohammadAG: 1 och april i think Jun 08 16:01:26 * DocScrutinizer not seeing the rationale behind a proof about Qt allegedly can safe future of a stillborn OS Jun 08 16:01:37 save* Jun 08 16:01:47 found it http://3d.xkcd.com Jun 08 16:02:24 ...as we could do same proof on maemo5 as well Jun 08 16:02:47 hey I like qml cutetube? Jun 08 16:03:00 I don't know about saving an os either, though Jun 08 16:03:14 and should have done it since ages, tho be brecise since meego came with bold statements about the code-once-just-recompile compatibility to maemo Jun 08 16:03:40 yay, "... to be precise..." Jun 08 16:03:53 MeeGo ruined Qt imo Jun 08 16:04:00 how so? Jun 08 16:04:05 Well I guess that Qt should be more fully supported in the backends dept, which would make migration easy Jun 08 16:04:20 MohammadAG: that's a funny xkcd Jun 08 16:04:24 first they encouraged MeeGo Touch Framework (which wasn't that bad, except not portable) Jun 08 16:04:36 then they deprecated it Jun 08 16:04:43 * lardman heads home, will continue the conversation there Jun 08 16:04:47 but just once recompile it? Jun 08 16:04:54 Nokia also encouraged Qt development Jun 08 16:05:02 right Jun 08 16:05:05 then they dropped QWidget for QML Jun 08 16:05:09 yes Jun 08 16:05:22 but then that's on Nokia not Meego Jun 08 16:05:27 which is as we all know, very very very light on memory Jun 08 16:05:46 insert massive sarcasm quotes Jun 08 16:05:51 :D Jun 08 16:06:05 MeeGo lacks a Qt theme (last I checked), only QML is actually usable Jun 08 16:06:37 Sociality for example, uses about 27MBs of RAM when displaying a full 250-ish photo album Jun 08 16:06:44 so bottom line: if maemo6 aka meego_harmattan is anything else than just a 100% compatible upgrade to maemo5, it's worthless and my favourite target for bitching and hate Jun 08 16:06:46 with QML, I'd expect that to be 50ish Jun 08 16:10:06 MohammadAG: make a qml ui for sociality just for the lulz Jun 08 16:10:10 then "benchmark" it :P Jun 08 16:10:26 merlin1991, waste of time :p Jun 08 16:11:54 nothing like pancakes in the morning Jun 08 16:12:00 with black coffee Jun 08 16:12:07 cut the coffe part Jun 08 16:12:09 DocScrutinizer: 100% compatible upgrade? How much have you been with Nokia? Jun 08 16:12:14 s/much/long Jun 08 16:14:57 merlin1991: :D Jun 08 16:16:17 fscking ms support site changes URL so much they basically already dump all of the URL path components into bing and redirect you into the first result. Jun 08 16:16:30 no matter what link you follow. Jun 08 16:17:56 good afternoon Jun 08 16:18:18 DocScrutinizer, let me promise that it's worthless for you, by your definition Jun 08 16:18:28 cb22 is developing this alternative email client called immoral, it would have been funnier if he called it arrogant Jun 08 16:19:26 or some like ImBetter email client Jun 08 16:19:52 andre__: that's what I'm hosestly afraid of, for maemo/meego's sake Jun 08 16:21:16 does the Cordia project make you feel a bit better? Jun 08 16:22:26 I guess not Jun 08 16:23:24 yo DocScrutinizer Jun 08 16:23:34 I seem to be late from an interesting discussion Jun 08 16:23:46 DocScrutinizer: between diablo and fremantle the main differences were... the compositor. and a few upgraded libraries. now ask anyone how much effort costs to keep a single piece of software between the two platforms. Jun 08 16:24:46 yigal: cordia makes me feel better about meego, not though about the use of that meego_harmattan chimera Jun 08 16:25:09 s/use ( purpose / Jun 08 16:25:16 I mean, Nokia and seeamless upgrade on the same sentence... Jun 08 16:25:26 seamless, compatible, etc. Jun 08 16:25:26 javispedro, it doesn't cost me more than a bunch of ifdefs Jun 08 16:26:01 javispedro: my point Jun 08 16:26:13 Venemo_N900: probably because you don't have software that triggers gcc bugs on diablo =) Jun 08 16:26:38 javispedro :P Jun 08 16:26:42 DocScrutinizer: but this is not new then, as andre__ says, by that definition you can rest 100% assured Meego will suck for you :P Jun 08 16:27:11 well, with meego (not harmattan), nokia's crappyness is out of the picture for good Jun 08 16:27:25 there's simply no obvious benefit out of that meego_harmattan thing. It's just yet another incompatible platform with no parents and no future Jun 08 16:27:27 I have other requeriments, like, will we really see the supposedly faster/lessmemoryconsuming Qt, well, faster and less memory consuming? Jun 08 16:27:51 or, will the increased number of components be worth it? Jun 08 16:27:56 *open components Jun 08 16:27:58 javispedro: and harmattan IS NOT meego, for all I got Jun 08 16:28:14 well, replace Meego with Harmattan. Jun 08 16:28:23 in my previous sentences. Jun 08 16:29:02 harmattan is crap Jun 08 16:29:15 but I think we have all agreed on that a long time ago Jun 08 16:29:17 that's the crux, replacing meego by harmattan changes the meaning of it all Jun 08 16:29:24 Well, not sure. Jun 08 16:29:34 Meego I've seen. Jun 08 16:29:47 Harmattan I am yet to see, but hey, if they plan to sell it, it _must_ work. Jun 08 16:29:59 harmattan != meego != maemo Jun 08 16:30:13 so WTF *is* harmattan supposed to be? Jun 08 16:30:19 fortunately because of meego's branding policy, they won't be able to brand harmattan as meego Jun 08 16:30:27 has that been decided already? Jun 08 16:30:30 a level of crap, right? Jun 08 16:30:38 DocScrutinizer: harmattan = maemo 6. Jun 08 16:31:03 javispedro, I think so, but I'm not 100% sure Jun 08 16:31:14 well, IF it really is then my concerns are down to "will they get it right THIS time?" Jun 08 16:31:22 Venemo_N900: I doubt it at this point. Jun 08 16:31:40 DocScrutinizer, no they won't Jun 08 16:31:45 DocScrutinizer: big NO. better question. "Will it be good enough?" Jun 08 16:31:58 also "will it be worth the effort of upgrading?" Jun 08 16:32:06 upgrading what? Jun 08 16:32:11 both Diablo and Fremantle were "good enough" Jun 08 16:32:19 Venemo_N900++ Jun 08 16:32:25 upgrading maemo5 to maemo6 Jun 08 16:32:25 but I don't think I would ever buy the harmattan device Jun 08 16:32:30 obviously Jun 08 16:32:54 I _may_ "upgrade" my N900 to MeeGo once it becomes usable enough Jun 08 16:33:02 that will never happen. Jun 08 16:33:06 forget about it. Jun 08 16:33:12 indeed Jun 08 16:33:21 harmattan is just another "don't care" thing for me Jun 08 16:33:22 statistics says the N900+1 and Harmattan will be "good enough". Jun 08 16:33:24 MeeGo N900 DE != Harmattan Jun 08 16:33:28 so, everyone will quickly migrate to it. Jun 08 16:33:38 N900 will be completely forgotten. Jun 08 16:33:49 javispedro, why, I think MeeGo DE is almost good enough on N900 right now Jun 08 16:34:38 anyhow, I doubt that I'll replace my N900 in the foreseeable future Jun 08 16:34:41 well, tell that to Stskeeps, that's surely to cheer him up after the abill_uk fiasco :) Jun 08 16:35:14 Venemo_N900: you remind me of myself, 2 years younger, with my N810 in hand. Jun 08 16:35:34 Venemo_N900: to quoth myself, "I'll port the DIablo UI to the N900". Jun 08 16:35:44 guess what. never really cared enough. Jun 08 16:35:53 so I've learnt not to repeat the same mistake. Jun 08 16:36:09 the quote must be still somewhere in this channel's logs... Jun 08 16:36:11 javispedro, if someone gets a real meego device out of their door with a decent enough UX, I'll probably buy Jun 08 16:36:28 but that will highly likely not be nokia Jun 08 16:36:57 * DocScrutinizer feels like his linux desktop distro announced the'll ship each new rev with KDE++ now, so KDE5 in 2 months, KDE6 in 8 months and so on. That's what Nokia's concept about maemo, harmattan, meego etc feels like Jun 08 16:37:29 I doubt that harmattan's ux will be that good. Jun 08 16:37:58 as said, you're echoing the feelings I had two years ago. Jun 08 16:38:15 DocScrutinizer, the ridiculous thing about it is that harmattan was already late in its schedule at the point when they announced "the merge" Jun 08 16:38:17 "the fremantle ux sucks. task switching using 2 taps! no fullscreen mode in all apps!" Jun 08 16:38:32 yep Jun 08 16:38:40 so I don't understand why they didn't just drop the whole project Jun 08 16:38:53 Hey all Jun 08 16:38:54 javispedro, why, task switch took 2 taps with diablo too Jun 08 16:39:33 Venemo_N900: oh? Jun 08 16:39:46 Venemo_N900: no -- task navigator. Jun 08 16:39:55 I have reflashed my n900 but the Repositories: Extras-Testing and Extras-Devel are not working. Is there any change for them? Jun 08 16:40:00 ?seen pupkin Jun 08 16:40:01 I seem to be able to click a limited number of tasks directly on left lower side Jun 08 16:40:03 !seen pupkin Jun 08 16:40:10 seen bot? Jun 08 16:40:26 javispedro, yeah, but only for the first few apps Jun 08 16:40:43 -seen pupkin Jun 08 16:40:55 * vldcnst slaps infobot Jun 08 16:40:58 ~bite vldcnst Jun 08 16:40:59 * infobot takes a big bite out of vldcnst's jugular vein Jun 08 16:41:03 ~seen pupnik Jun 08 16:41:11 pupnik <~pupnik@p54B2A321.dip.t-dialin.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 11d 7h 9m 2s ago, saying: 'o/'. Jun 08 16:41:12 * vldcnst slaps infobot harder Jun 08 16:41:27 er... hello pupnik, how ya going Jun 08 16:41:45 pupnik got banned on own explicit request Jun 08 16:41:52 political reasons? Jun 08 16:42:09 ask him, not me Jun 08 16:44:41 MOUD: since everyone is busy finding pupnik, what do you mean with not working? Jun 08 16:44:52 Venemo_N900: an ages improvement over the fremantle approach to task switching, due to 90% / 10% rule. Most of the time I'm switching between 2 apps only. Jun 08 16:45:23 javispedro, I understand Jun 08 16:45:27 also monsoon style rain here atm, wtf= Jun 08 16:45:45 merlin1991: Those 2 repositories gives me error 404. Are the links changed or removed? Jun 08 16:45:45 but the good side is that this way you get more screen space for each app Jun 08 16:45:54 what urls do you have? Jun 08 16:46:03 javispedro: that's why MHD made my day, meh year Jun 08 16:46:24 Venemo_N900: that's where the second complain comes in. On N810 you had pervasive full screen support Jun 08 16:46:59 MOUD: I have "deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ fremantle-1.3 free non-free" for devel in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list Jun 08 16:47:02 MOUD: nothing known, maybe you added a typo when adding the repos? Jun 08 16:47:05 javispedro, ah, yeah. I never used that feature because it prevented me from effective task switching Jun 08 16:47:30 I'm checking the web link i used Jun 08 16:47:34 * javispedro notes the irony of the situation, but hw buttons save the day. Jun 08 16:48:01 MOUD: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Jun 08 16:48:16 one-click add of repos Jun 08 16:48:37 javispedro :) Jun 08 16:49:06 going to use the link Jun 08 16:49:10 just restarted my phone Jun 08 16:51:25 buahahaha diablo-based n900 http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/05/nokiarover-1.jpg Jun 08 16:52:19 doesn't look half bad :p Jun 08 16:52:39 includes what seem to be hardware front buttons! Jun 08 16:52:58 javispedro: one of the awesome fakes Jun 08 16:53:02 let's rumour on it like it was 2009. Jun 08 16:53:10 since we have no interesting 2011 fakes. Jun 08 16:53:31 damn, I'll LOVE this device Jun 08 16:53:59 hope it'll come with a resistive touchpad as god as my N810's Jun 08 16:54:20 but the kbd layout... EEEW Jun 08 16:54:32 ctrl on the right end, wtf? Jun 08 16:54:45 DocScrutinizer: that's it, that's the spirit! Jun 08 16:54:57 where are the fekkin cursor keys? Jun 08 16:55:36 good point. Jun 08 16:58:29 meanwhile, apple plans to build a mothership Jun 08 16:58:42 as new HQs. Jun 08 16:59:02 will it hover over SF? Jun 08 16:59:13 xD Jun 08 16:59:24 no, it will orbit mars Jun 08 16:59:31 will some nerd bring it down with a virus from a windows laptop? Jun 08 17:00:17 DocScrutinizer, I think it worked. Jun 08 17:00:34 Thanks merlin1991 and DocScrutinizer for the support :) Jun 08 17:01:53 yw Jun 08 17:07:52 DocScrutinizer, no need, just jailbreak the beta Jun 08 17:21:14 so nitdroid is stupidly overclocked to 700Mhz by default? Jun 08 17:21:23 re Jun 08 17:21:35 hi lardman Jun 08 17:21:37 * lardman realises he didn't do a very good job of re-joining the conversation Jun 08 17:21:42 hey javispedro Jun 08 17:21:58 javispedro: you were indeed right about Ubuntu and the umounting using the ui stuff Jun 08 17:22:14 thanks Jun 08 17:22:23 lardman: it is on my todo list to understand what is happening behind the scenes Jun 08 17:22:31 because i have nfi why it happens Jun 08 17:22:34 do let me know if you find out Jun 08 17:22:38 :) Jun 08 17:22:41 Surrounded by top Republicans and Democrats, President Obama signs the $858 billion tax cut deal that extends the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts for another two years. Jun 08 17:22:44 Hehehe Jun 08 17:23:11 I thought he was faced with a cap on the total borrowings? Jun 08 17:23:46 or debt if you will Jun 08 17:24:03 * lardman has troubles re-adjusting to windows not moving focus with the mouse. Argh Jun 08 17:27:18 lardman: he was faced with angry republican lobbyists who wanted their tax cut Jun 08 17:27:26 lardman: fuck the cap... Jun 08 17:27:40 More tax cuts, less entitlement spending. Jun 08 17:28:16 lardman: The debt ceiling gets raised regularly like clockwork. Jun 08 17:28:22 It doesn't actually limit anything. Jun 08 17:29:06 Gen: Getting any sizable tax cuts? :) Jun 08 17:30:45 Me, personally? Don't think so. Jun 08 17:30:56 Gen: make some conclusions. Jun 08 17:32:14 derf: I was laughing yesterday at the potential jump from BBB- to junk for Nokia bonds - seems like they have limited the available alphabet a little, like our GCSE and A-levels over here Jun 08 17:33:55 lardman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_credit_rating Jun 08 17:34:37 BBB- is the last prime or "investment grade" rating in the S&P scheme. Jun 08 17:35:00 There are of course a lot of varieties of "junk". Jun 08 17:37:33 * DocScrutinizer ponders to buy Nokia on penny stock level Jun 08 17:37:40 Meanwhile: Apple has become the world's largest OEM buyer of seminconductors, leaving both Hewlett-Packard and Samsung in the dust, according to industry research outfit IHS iSuppli Jun 08 17:38:22 Doc: then burn it, while dancing around the fire and giggling? Jun 08 17:38:24 probably to be used into their mothership Jun 08 17:38:32 heh Jun 08 17:47:54 thanks derf Jun 08 17:49:08 http://fastcache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2010/06/steve-jobs-full-bars.jpg Jun 08 17:50:57 Looks more like an "operation in progress" icon Jun 08 17:51:37 is it me or does el jobso resemble Spock more and more every day Jun 08 17:52:55 javispedro: it is the vice versa Jun 08 17:53:16 Steve invented Spock! Jun 08 17:54:35 in a few years they'll hire him for the Nth StarTrek reboot. Jun 08 17:54:41 s/hire/cast Jun 08 17:55:26 He won't live this long =( Jun 08 17:56:17 Poor bastard. Jun 08 17:56:25 Apple's not going to be the same without him. Jun 08 17:56:42 Yep, as much as I hate the cult Jun 08 18:03:09 hello guys Jun 08 18:03:36 anyone running maemo on hd2? Jun 08 18:03:48 i tried it, but it didn't work for me, so i switched back 2 android Jun 08 18:04:19 good for you, except that maemo does not run on hd2 Jun 08 18:04:26 why Jun 08 18:04:49 there are maemo builds out there Jun 08 18:05:01 because it is square while hd2 is round. Jun 08 18:05:50 i'm not sure if this has something to do with the shape of the hd2 Jun 08 18:05:57 there are no "maemo" builds for anything but the N900 Jun 08 18:06:03 I think you mean "MeeGo" Jun 08 18:06:08 #meego Jun 08 18:06:09 (and the N810, N800, and 770) Jun 08 18:06:23 GeneralAntilles: but are they really the same? Jun 08 18:06:27 is there a n900 emulator for the hd2 ? Jun 08 18:06:30 no Jun 08 18:06:38 they are all square. Jun 08 18:06:41 Ah, the trolls nowadays... Jun 08 18:06:41 but i want maemo on my hd2 Jun 08 18:06:55 Easily replacable with a small Perl script. Jun 08 18:07:06 Well, if it's lowercase maemo, then yes. :P Jun 08 18:07:18 swordi, then you want an N900. Jun 08 18:07:28 GeneralAntilles, ok, i will buy one Jun 08 18:07:28 GeneralAntilles: maybe he/she wants a 770. Jun 08 18:07:32 thank you for you help Jun 08 18:07:32 swordi: You ave said you are already running maemo on your hd2 Jun 08 18:07:40 no i said i tried it Jun 08 18:07:43 swordi: So, how come you "want it"? Jun 08 18:07:47 but it didnt work as i already mentioned Jun 08 18:07:58 because i want it working Jun 08 18:08:36 anyway, will order a n900 now Jun 08 18:08:39 thank you guys for your help! Jun 08 18:09:05 yw Jun 08 18:09:58 lol Jun 08 18:10:16 N9 is going to be out week after next and swordi's going to be so disappointed. Jun 08 18:10:39 heheh Jun 08 18:10:57 GeneralAntilles: I was going to congratulate RST38h on assing such a hard sale Jun 08 18:11:03 what advantages has n9 Jun 08 18:11:08 in comparison to n900 Jun 08 18:11:21 i don't see any differences, except its more expensive Jun 08 18:12:06 noone knows yet Jun 08 18:12:18 no one even knows the price Jun 08 18:12:28 no one _should_ know the differences Jun 08 18:12:29 or the specs Jun 08 18:13:36 insert javispedro's should in all my statements Jun 08 18:13:38 Heck, it's getting difficult to know the price of N900 too Jun 08 18:14:12 still $500 in local stores here Jun 08 18:14:37 swordi: basically it comes down to it being 2.5 years newer, though. ;) Jun 08 18:15:22 GeneralAntilles: wait until the announcement before making that statemement. Jun 08 18:15:28 "just in case". Jun 08 18:15:45 Yeah I was going to say 1-1.5 years newer :P Jun 08 18:15:58 well, if someone would ask me if i would buy a hd7 or hd2, i would choose hd2, same hardware, other case Jun 08 18:16:00 javispedro, hehe Jun 08 18:16:03 all I know is that we can safely assume it is 0.5 years newer. Jun 08 18:17:56 sure about that? Jun 08 18:18:05 Well Jun 08 18:18:31 The first announcement came during Amsterdam. Jun 08 18:18:40 it might as well be N900 predecessor that got postponed due to availability of SoC ;-P Jun 08 18:18:59 well, I do not think it's going to be an OMAP2. Jun 08 18:19:17 but who knows maybe they fixed the mbx drivers. Jun 08 18:19:23 nah, OMAP4 been around as vaporware since ages Jun 08 18:20:07 * javispedro repartitions sd card, total number of OSes = 4 Jun 08 18:20:08 Omap4 has been sampling on panda only for a few months I think Jun 08 18:20:11 it's actually not unheard that a design gets postponed to go for a downgraded successor Jun 08 18:20:16 It may have been sampling before then Jun 08 18:20:33 what was announced on Amsterdam was OMAP36. Jun 08 18:20:39 *OMAP36xx Jun 08 18:21:00 hasn't the N950 been available/leaked in 2010? Jun 08 18:21:03 SpeedEvil: I never seen any hw design getting started only after first samples of key components shipped from the chip manufs Jun 08 18:21:10 you start way earlier Jun 08 18:21:17 MohammadAG: even earlier. Jun 08 18:21:24 MohammadAG: but, "N950"? cmon. Jun 08 18:21:50 then eventually sometimes you learn your components are discontinued prematurely or simply late by years, and you bin the whole thing, or postpone it Jun 08 18:22:22 javispedro, N9? That's WP7 Jun 08 18:23:03 yes, a keyboard-ed WP7 device.. Jun 08 18:23:26 DocScrutinizer; yeah - I know. Jun 08 18:24:03 MohammadAG: N950 is a metaphor. Jun 08 18:24:16 no, it's the last best hope for peace. Jun 08 18:24:21 so for all we know the omap36 N999 could actually be N900 predecessor ;-P Jun 08 18:24:22 for Duke Nukem Forever? Jun 08 18:24:38 MohammadAG, we don't actually have a model name for N900+1 (N9 is currently still the most likely, though). Jun 08 18:24:58 GeneralAntilles, didn't Nokia say it was N950? Jun 08 18:25:19 MohammadAG, that was an illustration device. To say the N900+1 was more like an N950 than anything else. Jun 08 18:25:26 (N900, but more) Jun 08 18:25:29 GeneralAntilles++ Jun 08 18:25:30 nokia didn't say anything, as they *never* do Jun 08 18:25:39 k, I'll use RM-680 till it's announced Jun 08 18:25:46 pfft. Jun 08 18:25:49 use N900+1. Jun 08 18:25:55 Use the "Last1" Jun 08 18:26:03 sorry, that's like N900/0 to me Jun 08 18:26:05 it sounds more hip Jun 08 18:26:16 or just say "the thing", like I do in RL casual conversation. Jun 08 18:26:23 2L8 Jun 08 18:26:26 That's hip. Jun 08 18:27:04 heh Jun 08 18:27:15 why N950? why not N910? Jun 08 18:27:16 heh Jun 08 18:27:43 whatever, I don't care Jun 08 18:27:53 GeneralAntilles: indeed, potentially the best name :) Jun 08 18:28:07 "2L8" is definitely ultra hip Jun 08 18:28:12 Nokia 2L8 Jun 08 18:28:20 Venemo_N900: because it's more of an upgrade than the N800 -> N810. Jun 08 18:28:26 if the huge thread in TMO is to be believed there are actually two N900+1 devices, a developer-only model with keyboard and a keyboardless device they will actually sell, the consumer device presumably being newer/better hardware Jun 08 18:28:31 Since the N810 was just an N800 with a keyboard and a transflective screen. Jun 08 18:28:36 GeneralAntilles: as I was saying, wait until the announcement to make those bold statements. Jun 08 18:28:40 Trewas: do not believe stuff you see on tmo Jun 08 18:28:40 then let's call it N1000 Jun 08 18:28:52 The first person to mention the n950 was acidjazz on the 20th of october Jun 08 18:28:55 2009 Jun 08 18:28:57 RST38h, source wasn't TMO. Jun 08 18:29:04 I'd put some faith in that one. Jun 08 18:29:10 will see Jun 08 18:29:11 Given the number of RM-* codes. Jun 08 18:29:15 Indeed we will. Jun 08 18:29:19 2009-10-20.021943+0100BST.txt:(10:00:38 PM) acidjazz: oh wait this is the n950 no wonder its 1/2 as thick w/ 1024x768 res and a 5 row kb. oh an umbrella too nice. Jun 08 18:29:22 SpeedEvil, that 'N950' was just a concept drawing from some random guy Jun 08 18:29:23 to me, TWO Harmattan devices sounds like one too many Jun 08 18:29:31 Given the clusterfuck Jun 08 18:29:45 two harmattan devices are two too many Jun 08 18:29:47 RST38h: I dunno. Jun 08 18:30:01 and since I believe a dev-only device is commercial suicide, it'll be probably cancelled. Jun 08 18:30:09 RST38h: I could believe two harmattan devices released - each released by a seperate arm of Nokia that diddn't know of the other. Jun 08 18:30:16 Hehe Jun 08 18:30:17 specially when Elop gets news of that =) Jun 08 18:30:21 xD Jun 08 18:30:30 or. Jun 08 18:30:39 maybe it's part of Elops plan to bring nokia stock to the penny. Jun 08 18:31:07 xD Jun 08 18:31:08 Then Nokia can buy them up for pennies! Jun 08 18:31:14 s/Nokia/MS/ Jun 08 18:31:15 GeneralAntilles meant: Then MS can buy them up for pennies! Jun 08 18:31:47 those kinds of Nokia buying Nokia stock jokes remind me of Palm/PalmSource/PalmOne Jun 08 18:32:01 another clusterfsck. Jun 08 18:32:33 yes but that one was well deserved Jun 08 18:32:46 REALLY bad engineering at the end there Jun 08 18:52:28 where are gconf values stored? Jun 08 18:52:38 over there *points* Jun 08 18:52:58 MohammadAG: on Maemo? /var/lib/gconf/sth Jun 08 18:53:12 770-days heritage iirc. Jun 08 18:53:13 ty javispedro Jun 08 18:53:23 expected somewhere in $HOME Jun 08 18:53:24 oh well Jun 08 19:14:21 so, why does MohammadAG appear as maintainer of multiboot? Jun 08 19:21:59 javispedro, I helped with packaging and stuff Jun 08 19:23:16 aha. Jun 08 19:34:42 Evil bastard. Jun 08 19:39:42 GAN900, sue me Jun 08 19:41:27 * hiemanshu gets the lawyers to send the papers to MohammadAG Jun 08 19:41:49 I'm under 18, you can't sue a minor Jun 08 19:59:43 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9943 Jun 08 19:59:44 04Bug 9943: MfE Wizard fails if exchange server hostname has IPv4 and IPv6 addresses Jun 08 19:59:54 since this is ipv6 day after all :p Jun 08 20:00:44 wtf Jun 08 20:01:12 m.google.com won't work with mfe Jun 08 20:01:28 did google get rid of exchange support? Jun 08 20:02:53 Hrm, how to keep two N900s in sync .. Jun 08 20:03:05 Maybe rsync, but that'd be quite heavy me thinks. Jun 08 20:04:29 question is, why sync two N900s :P Jun 08 20:04:31 [18:28] < SpeedEvil> 2009-10-20.021943+0100BST.txt:(10:00:38 PM) acidjazz: oh wait this is the n950 no wonder its 1/2 as thick w/ 1024x768 res and a 5 row Jun 08 20:04:32 kb. oh an umbrella too nice. Jun 08 20:04:33 lollll Jun 08 20:39:35 this changes everything http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/08/periodic-table-welcomes-two-new-ultraheavy-elements-jury-still/ :P Jun 08 21:03:17 is there a better device runnin maemo than n900 Jun 08 21:03:27 no, there isn't Jun 08 21:04:26 hmmm..... if it wasnt for battery life Jun 08 21:10:49 standby battery life for me is quite good. Jun 08 21:17:04 SpeedEvil: well the problem is that most people want to use the device :) Jun 08 21:17:16 True. Jun 08 21:17:46 It regrettably won't last a day if i'm out for 8 hoursish wanting it to entertain me for most of that. Jun 08 21:18:21 Battery usage with 3g active is best described by the phrase 'nom nom nom' Jun 08 21:19:03 whatching youtube on 3g ... i never tried but prolly your battery would last 1 hr or less Jun 08 21:20:03 naah. Jun 08 21:20:06 Not less. Jun 08 21:20:22 But not very close to 2h. Jun 08 21:22:47 but you can use the device as pizza oven :) Jun 08 21:24:44 when I'm at 9km from base station, hspa seems to use about 700-900mA Jun 08 21:24:46 screw flash, use your own player Jun 08 21:25:03 I use either QtMultimediaKit or mplayer, both work well Jun 08 21:25:12 within 1km indoor or 2km outdoor of same basestation, it's more like 350mA Jun 08 21:25:55 MohammadAG: Sometimes you can't not use flash. Jun 08 21:26:28 unless you do hte 'work out the sites protocol, and reverse engineer a client' for it thing. Jun 08 21:28:30 what sites need flash and open fine on the N900 anyway Jun 08 21:28:45 ...meanwhile: kino.to down + 13 arrested. Germany had its first IPv6 test day. Facebook enable face detection for german site Jun 08 21:32:43 umm, youtube, MohammadAG Jun 08 21:35:10 DocScrutinizer, use custom scripts to watch them in mplayer Jun 08 21:35:19 or qmltube (it's actually good for a qml app) Jun 08 21:35:25 why? Jun 08 21:35:39 battery life Jun 08 21:35:44 mhm Jun 08 21:35:55 that might be a point Jun 08 21:36:07 and better quality Jun 08 21:36:15 youtube plays at like 240p in the browser Jun 08 21:36:24 yeah Jun 08 21:36:37 qmltube can play 360p Jun 08 21:36:45 (or 480p, not sure) Jun 08 21:36:50 but either way, that's better than youtube.com Jun 08 21:37:05 I also handle videos in Sociality, with QtMultimedia (which works quite well) Jun 08 21:41:05 I love how N900 works for this page: http://www.3sat.de/mediathek/mediathek.php?obj=25707&mode=play Jun 08 21:41:27 even on "dsl 1mb" over UMTS Jun 08 21:42:10 well, no flash but avi or sth, in mediaplayer Jun 08 21:42:20 the way it *should* be Jun 08 21:44:25 DocScrutinizer, a mozilla dev can easily help out Jun 08 21:44:36 while this one http://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/sendung/ts27094.html kinda sucks Jun 08 21:44:57 a plugin that calls some other app which plays the video would be very appreciated Jun 08 21:45:02 MohammadAG: help out on what? Jun 08 21:45:05 the way the iPhone does it Jun 08 21:45:15 DocScrutinizer, forward the .flv or .swf link Jun 08 21:45:27 I have no idea about microB/firefox plugin devel Jun 08 21:47:41 the way iPhone does is it to find if the site supports mp4 playback (not sure about 3gp), and if it does, it opens it up in quicktime Jun 08 21:47:55 Youtube is opened by the youtube app that opens it as mp4 Jun 08 21:48:40 if there is no mp4 support, the video just wont play, which is why we have this other browser Jun 08 21:48:46 * hiemanshu can't recall the namne Jun 08 21:48:47 name* Jun 08 21:48:53 it supposedly can play flash stuff Jun 08 21:48:58 re Jun 08 21:49:21 skyfire is the name Jun 08 21:55:50 hiemanshu, point is, it doesn't play videos it can play in the browser Jun 08 21:56:11 MohammadAG: yes Jun 08 21:59:35 * lardman dislikes the Ubunto 11.04 launcher Jun 08 21:59:42 s/o/u Jun 08 22:00:26 Unity? Jun 08 22:01:01 no idea, bar down the lefthand side Jun 08 22:01:13 that's not just a launcher :p Jun 08 22:01:22 it's Unity Jun 08 22:01:23 am wondering how to get back to the old-skool stuff Jun 08 22:01:23 * hiemanshu is yet to try installing scratchbox on a fedora machine Jun 08 22:01:47 logout, select Ubuntu classic in the bottom thing before entering your pass Jun 08 22:01:55 (and after selecting your username) Jun 08 22:02:01 lardman: delete Ubuntu and install Fedora? :P Jun 08 22:02:01 I don't have that menu any more Jun 08 22:02:12 hiemanshu: ;) Jun 08 22:02:18 you should, Ubuntu 11.04 has it Jun 08 22:02:43 11.10 won't Jun 08 22:02:51 lardman: enter your username, hit enter, and it should show you the menu Jun 08 22:02:54 well perhaps it has removed the other wms so doesn't show it? Jun 08 22:02:54 lardman, http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xTketT17548/Tc3r18TqTDI/AAAAAAAAAIk/pqVSSnyEDcI/s1600/regular-ubuntu11.04-desktop.png Jun 08 22:03:06 no, there's a recovery console mode Jun 08 22:03:10 Ubuntu is meh Jun 08 22:03:22 Fedora is meh Jun 08 22:03:31 MohammadAG: :P Jun 08 22:03:33 * MohammadAG puts on flamewar hat and foam finger Jun 08 22:03:47 * lardman doesn't care, but Maemo dev is at least possible under Ubuntu Jun 08 22:04:07 ouch, foam will melt Jun 08 22:04:16 * hiemanshu just ported one his PyQt to C++ Jun 08 22:04:24 ~fedora Jun 08 22:04:38 MohammadAG: it's a hat Jun 08 22:04:41 ;) Jun 08 22:04:43 lardman, I know :p Jun 08 22:04:52 but ~ubuntu is umm, nsfw Jun 08 22:05:02 just thought someone had a witty "definition" Jun 08 22:05:02 :D Jun 08 22:05:06 someone once told me that a fedora would look nice on me Jun 08 22:05:08 ~ubuntu Jun 08 22:05:08 i guess ubuntu is caca from this ass http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/3843/18427557718e22857e9rb.jpg Jun 08 22:05:24 hah Jun 08 22:05:25 hmm, not sure about witty :D Jun 08 22:05:30 Invalid domain :P Jun 08 22:05:51 hiemanshu, ubuntu is an ancient african word for `i could not configure debian' Jun 08 22:05:52 :P Jun 08 22:05:56 damn imageshack Jun 08 22:06:11 Ubuntu is certainly better than Mandrake Jun 08 22:06:23 but still has no clue about multi-head support Jun 08 22:06:37 nox-: and debian is an ancient word for 'I couldn't use slackware, and rpm based stuff is too l33t for me' :P Jun 08 22:06:47 :) Jun 08 22:06:56 There are still, unfortunately, some things where Windows is light years ahead of Linux Jun 08 22:06:59 Mandrake? didn't they change names to Mandriva? Jun 08 22:07:11 lardman: like BSODs? Jun 08 22:07:16 hiemanshu: probably, was a long time ago Jun 08 22:07:27 lardman: xorg autodetects all of my multihead setups Jun 08 22:07:34 hiemanshu: bsod, not seen one of those recently, in fact seen more oopses tbh Jun 08 22:07:43 usually even gets the monitor placement right Jun 08 22:07:48 wblaze: how many monitors and cards? Jun 08 22:07:52 wblaze: but how easy is it to reconfigure? Jun 08 22:08:05 dead simple, imo Jun 08 22:08:18 wblaze: and do you have to have a separate X-server per monitor? Jun 08 22:08:31 lardman: I haven't seen one in ages too, mostly because my windows machine is only used for gaming and media Jun 08 22:08:40 ls Jun 08 22:08:42 doh Jun 08 22:09:01 hiemanshu: I use one at work, it still has some serious usability advantages over Linux Jun 08 22:09:04 and depends on the system, 1x2, 2x4, 3x3 that i can think of off the top of my hea Jun 08 22:09:08 d Jun 08 22:09:36 lardman: I agree to that, but I am really more to used to the commandline now Jun 08 22:09:47 I have 3 monitors, 2 cards, one nVidia one ATi, have to use the deprecated Xinerama, have to set up myself Jun 08 22:10:01 the 3x3 is seperate, but i think there was a reason I did that Jun 08 22:10:11 buntkuh, meh! http://xkcd.com/424/ Jun 08 22:10:15 don't remember why, though Jun 08 22:10:21 because it;s really hard for them to be joined? ;) Jun 08 22:10:21 lardman: eh, cant you just go into settings and change it? Jun 08 22:10:25 lardman: works for me Jun 08 22:10:34 hiemanshu: nope, it is uninterested Jun 08 22:10:42 Xorg.conf all the way unfortunately Jun 08 22:10:58 lardman: WTF, I would just go to display settings, make a change, and it has always worked Jun 08 22:11:30 display settings has never liked the fact I have 2 different vendors' cards Jun 08 22:11:40 an when it does play ball it screws up the res Jun 08 22:12:33 considering the effort it takes to set it all up again, I'm loathe to move to something else while I want to do anything useful with the box Jun 08 22:13:24 and let's not move onto hw accel across multi-head setups, especially those with multiple vendors ;) Jun 08 22:14:27 * lardman is no Windows zealot, just likes the fact some simple things just work Jun 08 22:22:53 Hellooo, OS X. Jun 08 22:23:21 OS X does not work for me Jun 08 22:23:39 WiFi can;t stay up for more than 5 minutes. Videos did not play out of the box. Jun 08 22:26:07 Video doesn't play out on the box on anything. Jun 08 22:26:34 it does on my PS3 :p Jun 08 22:58:25 meh Jun 08 23:34:22 DocScrutinizer, meh indeed Jun 08 23:34:44 my MEH day Jun 08 23:40:17 whats up? Jun 08 23:49:52 Meh U Jun 08 23:50:57 * nox- none the wiser Jun 08 23:57:48 DocScrutinizer51: how much paracord do i need? Jun 08 23:58:05 is 30meters enough Jun 08 23:58:38 sorry you likely do not know Jun 08 23:58:44 what's paracord? Jun 08 23:58:54 ultralight rope Jun 08 23:59:08 for living outside Jun 08 23:59:31 did not thing you would answer anyhow Jun 09 00:00:00 and i have been having bacardi 151 Jun 09 00:00:26 MohammadAG51, #liqbase ping Jun 09 00:00:53 if you were leaving to go explore europe how much rope would you bring? Jun 09 00:01:29 is 100 roman feet enough? Jun 09 00:02:07 a bit over 30 meters Jun 09 00:02:53 lcuk will you forgive me? Jun 09 00:03:16 no Jun 09 00:03:21 i refrain Jun 09 00:04:31 damn IRC disconnects Jun 09 00:04:44 ~ping Jun 09 00:04:44 ~pong Jun 09 00:07:23 0x81 Jun 09 00:07:31 dangergrrl: depends which part of europe :p Jun 09 00:07:59 how much rope would you bring to the alps? Jun 09 00:08:13 i am going to the american continental divide Jun 09 00:08:23 ah alps Jun 09 00:08:24 hmm Jun 09 00:08:33 what you plan to do? :p Jun 09 00:08:36 climbing Jun 09 00:08:50 just sleeping Jun 09 00:09:05 and there is this thing i saw at REI i think i want Jun 09 00:09:11 someone needs to rope you to get you to sleep? :p Jun 09 00:09:18 or to stay away from pcs? :p Jun 09 00:09:19 LOL Jun 09 00:09:32 it says you can use your smartphone to sms from sat Jun 09 00:09:50 friend of mine was looking for paracord Jun 09 00:10:15 but he is the guy who is going for a hike in the woods not to be heard of for 15 days ... :) Jun 09 00:10:28 think thats a bit crazy :/ Jun 09 00:11:53 bear grylls style Jun 09 00:12:08 not drinking his pee though :p Jun 09 00:12:18 at least that i know of O_o Jun 09 00:12:36 what about enemas? Jun 09 00:12:46 give me a trip to NYC Jun 09 00:12:57 not somewhere out in the middle of nowhere :/ Jun 09 00:13:35 went this year to sweden and finland capitals ... finland is already deserted enough for me ;p Jun 09 00:13:43 not much people out in spring ... Jun 09 00:24:12 who stole my marker lines in xchat? >:-( Jun 09 00:28:16 ~hi Jun 09 00:28:16 hello, docscrutinizer51 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 09 02:59:56 2011