**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun 18 02:59:56 2011 Jun 18 09:12:26 Morning, all Jun 18 11:41:14 hi.. I heard that Carman and other applications from Diablo are available on Fremantle, too.. bought a N900 but can't find them. are they all in extras-devel? Jun 18 11:53:31 carman is not available on n900, nor are in general diablo apps Jun 18 13:06:16 why isn't it possible to place a Gtalk-audio-call FROM the N900, but TO the N900? Jun 18 13:07:25 to the same n900? Jun 18 13:08:46 mer_ge: it should be Jun 18 13:08:53 mer_ge: i can do jingle calls from n900 Jun 18 13:09:20 I have been using those jingle calls a lot, works for me also Jun 18 13:09:38 i can do jingle calls as well. to jitsi, to empathy no problem. Jun 18 13:10:18 a friend of mine just logged in from his android 2.3.4 device and I don't see audio-capabilities Jun 18 13:10:31 android might not implement that properly Jun 18 13:10:36 not from my jabber-account, and not from my gmail account Jun 18 13:10:47 but he can call me Jun 18 13:10:59 gmail and to my jabber account Jun 18 13:11:13 can you call him, from any other device? Jun 18 13:11:57 hey guys :) Jun 18 13:12:02 I have to say, I only tested jitsi. I can't call him there. (but jitsi's gtalk is in dev atm) Jun 18 13:12:49 how would you recommend storing passwords? Jun 18 13:15:58 okay, empathy also can not call the Gtalk Android App (but that should quite like the N900 anyways) Jun 18 13:16:48 I really would like to know if the App hides its funktionality Jun 18 13:17:15 but then .... no 2 mobile Gtalk Apps could ever call each other Jun 18 13:17:42 always only Android <-> "desktop"(or N900) Jun 18 13:17:54 mer_ge, until they announce a SIP service :) Jun 18 13:17:56 you can call from n900 to n900 Jun 18 13:18:55 petteri I know, you can really think of the n900 as a laptop Jun 18 13:19:31 MoonTiger yea but this Gtalk-App behavious is strange, I wonder why I haven't heard bout it before Jun 18 13:19:50 ive never heard of it either ... just looking on their site now Jun 18 13:23:14 langplace.com deems to be the company who owns the domain Jun 18 13:24:17 ahhhhhh its in java Jun 18 13:25:11 afternoon chaps Jun 18 13:25:21 anything exciting happened in the past few days? Jun 18 13:25:30 I am broadband-less as just moved house Jun 18 13:26:04 so password storage on maemo sucks too? Jun 18 13:26:32 why do you think so? Jun 18 13:26:54 well is there a managed password storage aka gnome keyring? i havent found anything on google Jun 18 13:27:31 how can it suck if there none? Jun 18 13:27:49 thats what sucks ... are you being deliberately obtuse? Jun 18 13:28:09 Anyone know the best way to tempoarily prevent incoming calls and sms's? You can't disable the Telepathy account, and turning off the cellular hardware seems heavy-handed (it'd be great to still be able to maintain a data connection without being able to recieve calls or messages, but I suspect this isn't going to be possible)... Jun 18 13:30:35 * lardman assumes not then Jun 18 13:30:53 have a nice weekend all, back to unpacking and cleaning, etc. for me Jun 18 14:22:53 so can the qt sdk replace scratchbox as a general development evironment for the N900 Jun 18 14:23:11 like, for non-qt stuff Jun 18 14:28:16 it would be called the qt+everything else sdk if that were the case Jun 18 14:57:23 lcuk, so I'm still stuck with scratchbox then Jun 18 14:57:29 what a hassle Jun 18 16:01:59 if you now try to search '$WIKI_SOFTWARE_NAME wiki links' in Google you know get wikileaks results. Hate hate hate! Jun 18 16:02:51 ah well, only if the software is obscure enough seemingly. Jun 18 16:08:57 :D Jun 18 16:09:05 awesome, n900-ce now happily imports maemo contacts Jun 18 16:09:26 booting up with it after you export from maemo onto eMMC now happily fills up the addressbook on meego Jun 18 17:12:33 I've been away for some time. has the state of email applications in N900 changed? Jun 18 19:10:37 any of you guys played with bluetooth scripts on N900? trying to see if I can add extra commands when its paired to a device Jun 18 19:11:34 does't googe have " -wikileaks " anymore Jun 18 19:12:54 psycho_oreos: there's for sure a dbus event Jun 18 19:15:08 DocScrutinizer, thanks for the hints, gonna dig in :) Jun 18 19:15:24 dbus-monitor is your friend Jun 18 19:15:38 yeah did that and now reading through the buffer Jun 18 19:16:12 and dbus-scripts of course Jun 18 19:16:59 psycho_oreos: always keep in mind there are TWO dbus busses Jun 18 19:17:42 some things are system domain and thus found on system bus, not the default session bus Jun 18 19:18:12 also don't run dbus-mon as root ;-) Jun 18 19:20:38 lol bit late for that, Iă€€ran dbus-mon as root, dumped output to a log file for closer scrutinisation :D Jun 18 19:21:08 and yeah I chose system as it should cover literally everything. Probably even more than session Jun 18 19:23:22 root ok for system. system not ok for most of interesting events Jun 18 19:25:37 when you're searching unspecific rhen you always want check both system bus and user session bus Jun 18 19:26:09 Is it possible to save a irc room at osso-chat? Installed the chat plugin for irc which i use now.. Jun 18 19:26:34 nevr used that, it's lame Jun 18 19:26:39 YMMV Jun 18 19:26:55 Hmm Jun 18 19:28:47 well, I'm used to xchat since N810, and never used any other IM services than IRC Jun 18 19:29:08 I'm possibly biased Jun 18 19:29:40 K, I'll check it out.. Jun 18 19:30:33 * Choom uses irssi remotely Jun 18 19:31:40 What about codecs? Installed the extra codec package but it doesn't seem to support mpeg-ts which i would need to watch mythtv recordings at maemo's mediaplayer via upnp Jun 18 19:32:00 .. Jun 18 19:32:21 Mythtv doesn't support upnp av atm Jun 18 20:27:38 anybody using FLAC on N900? I tagged all the FLAC files using easytag but still they get dumped in Unknown Album/Artist Jun 18 20:37:24 hey guys Jun 18 20:37:57 what consumes more power on n900... wifi or 3g ? Jun 18 20:39:08 cant say that easily because both can vary very much depending on the local situation Jun 18 20:39:12 <_trine> wifi probably Jun 18 20:39:29 3g can consume a lot of power Jun 18 20:39:35 <_trine> but if you have a weak sigbal on 3g it could use more Jun 18 20:39:40 Use gsm to save battery Jun 18 20:39:53 weak signal, cell handovers, bad reception Jun 18 20:40:07 Hmm Jun 18 20:40:34 oh i can use either right now but I want to save my battery power because i don't have my charger with me :( Jun 18 20:40:59 gsm is nice for standby .. but when you want to transfer bulk data then it needs more time (more cpu awake) to get things done Jun 18 20:41:21 i have full signal (its even hsdpa) on both Jun 18 20:44:19 power management wiki suggests that wifi uses less power... but AP must have good power save settings Jun 18 20:45:28 i can only use 'moderate power saving' with my AP and listening to webradio would eat the battery in about 3 hrs Jun 18 20:45:38 in the same room as the AP Jun 18 20:46:39 <_trine> the difference is the same as how long will a Ł100 last me Jun 18 20:46:51 :) Jun 18 20:46:55 <_trine> answer is Jun 18 20:47:07 <_trine> for ever if you dont spend it Jun 18 20:47:32 <_trine> if you use wifi it will use more than 3g Jun 18 20:48:06 <_trine> because 3g will only talk intermittently to the cells Jun 18 20:48:13 <_trine> unless you use it Jun 18 20:48:36 <_trine> so the anser is dont use it and it will last a long time Jun 18 20:49:52 <_trine> n900 batteries last a really long time if the phone is switched off Jun 18 20:51:19 even if its switched on but in standby/flight mode Jun 18 20:51:52 prolly you can leave it 2-3 weeks in such a standby mode Jun 18 20:52:08 mhm forgot about trackerd :P Jun 18 20:52:12 well 1 week then Jun 18 20:53:09 <_trine> as always its a question of which one is used the most Jun 18 20:58:18 morning Jun 18 20:59:43 <_trine> its not morning Jun 18 21:00:26 ~ugt Jun 18 21:00:27 well, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html Jun 18 21:00:45 <_trine> bah Jun 18 21:00:59 xD Jun 18 21:01:15 <_trine> or more correctly bah humbug Jun 18 21:01:25 <_trine> :) Jun 18 21:01:41 :D Jun 18 21:05:03 <_trine> anyone fancy compiling pyrit for me Jun 18 21:06:53 Pyrit? Sounds like a module.. As i remember from the past at diablo there is a team whos job is to provide modules.. Jun 18 21:07:45 <_trine> svn checkout http://pyrit.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ pyrit_svn Jun 18 21:08:05 <_trine> http://code.google.com/p/pyrit/ Jun 18 21:08:22 <_trine> that home page is well out of date though Jun 18 21:10:38 _trine: I'm working at mythtv atm ;) Jun 18 21:10:52 <_trine> k Jun 18 21:11:47 <_trine> pyrit should take about 4 seconds to compile if you have the right build environment Jun 18 21:17:20 thopiekar: waiting for the binaries :) Jun 18 21:17:54 thopiekar: i did try compiling myth-0.22 sometime as reported in that thread, but wasnt very successfull. Jun 18 21:18:23 thopiekar: Lack of QT3 was the problem iirc, and gles support Jun 18 21:19:32 thopiekar: it seems gles support is present in myth-0.25 Jun 18 21:19:33 Ill take the qt3 libs from diablo sdk via apt-get source.. And switch to fremantle and compile it there.. Jun 18 21:19:39 Hope it works Jun 18 21:19:59 it should Jun 18 21:20:02 _trine: have you ever packaged? Jun 18 21:20:40 <_trine> no sorry Jun 18 21:25:27 Damn, can' t install the diablo sdk here.. Using x64.. Jun 18 21:27:44 Hmm I'll better prepare a vm then.. Jun 18 21:27:45 Firefox 5 already? Jun 18 21:27:55 Trivializing major release numbers . . . why? Jun 18 21:33:25 _trine how is the package called providing module building when the source is installed? Jun 18 21:34:43 Got it python-support Jun 18 21:36:26 <_trine> setup.py build Jun 18 21:36:32 <_trine> setup.py install Jun 18 21:37:03 Sure python-support will do it for you when installing the package.. Jun 18 21:37:11 ;) Jun 18 21:37:11 <_trine> Only pyrit itself will be usful Jun 18 21:37:37 <_trine> all the other stuff will be of no use on the n900 Jun 18 21:38:21 <_trine> I just want pyrit so I can verify the 'goodness' of the 4Way handshake Jun 18 21:39:01 <_trine> pyrit -r capfile.cap analyze Jun 18 21:39:49 _trine: which is the latest python version on fremantle? 2.5? Jun 18 21:40:46 <_trine> I dont know much about the n900 stuff ,, I have built all this on my PC at the moment Jun 18 21:41:15 Check python --version via xterm Jun 18 21:43:16 Ok 2.5 checked that Jun 18 21:45:02 <_trine> I used 2.7 on my ubuntu Jun 18 21:46:21 Never mind need to bind it against a python version because scratchbox is doing crazy things.. It would use it own python install.. Afaik Jun 18 21:46:38 .. From diablo of course.. Jun 18 21:47:47 <_trine> I have built machine with some ATI GPU's in it so I can play with pyrit Jun 18 21:48:24 <_trine> but the n900 is ideal for collecting the 4Way handshake Jun 18 21:48:39 <_trine> and it can do that in seconds Jun 18 21:49:50 <_trine> it does 180000 PMK's a second Jun 18 21:51:54 Btw. Isn't it already packaged it the ubuntu repos? Jun 18 21:52:19 <_trine> you mean pyrit? Jun 18 21:52:29 Yes Jun 18 21:52:45 <_trine> I dont know I just compiled the svn Jun 18 21:53:13 <_trine> and for a pc you also need calpp Jun 18 21:53:18 It is.. Jun 18 21:53:43 <_trine> if its in ubuntu its likely to be old Jun 18 21:53:50 When a wireless connection is disconnected, is it possible for me to tell whether the user forced the disconnect or whether it was due to inadequate signal? Perhaps via d-bus? Jun 18 21:54:34 Next time you need a package from me tell me that xD got here 0.4.0.. Is that ok? Jun 18 21:54:47 <_trine> yes Jun 18 21:55:56 I would wonder if not got oneiric installed here ;) Jun 18 22:34:55 neal: good question. yes, I'd start with monitoring dbus to find out Jun 18 22:35:41 I'd think a user-forced disconnect will show up on dbus in a unique way Jun 18 22:37:21 while a signal-loss is an internal thing of, err... that network managing thing, forgot the name NCD2? Jun 18 23:26:25 http://i.imgur.com/NDSmT.jpg Jun 18 23:26:26 Huh Jun 18 23:30:03 512MB RAM, 1GHz CPU clock max, nice Jun 18 23:31:03 Assuming that's real Cortex A8 and not any of Qualcomm's bullshit Jun 18 23:31:05 Yeah, nice. Jun 18 23:31:34 (qualcom BS) indeed Jun 18 23:31:46 still I bet on c-ts and so MEH!! Jun 18 23:32:17 Well Jun 18 23:32:27 Rumor has it it'll be more exciting than just c-ts Jun 18 23:32:31 Besides Jun 18 23:32:40 also not convinced about easy migration from maemo5 to maemo-RM680-15 Jun 18 23:32:43 Given the number of options here (exactly one) I'm willing to make some compromises. Jun 18 23:33:21 well, maybe Jun 18 23:33:21 you guys still think this `mystery device' is real? Jun 18 23:33:30 sure it is real Jun 18 23:33:36 Real - yes. Jun 18 23:33:46 I definitely know there are real devices out at testers Jun 18 23:33:52 Actually coming out and going to be purcahsable by end users - questionable. Jun 18 23:33:56 yeah but it will also be sold? Jun 18 23:34:11 that's the question :-P Jun 18 23:34:14 right Jun 18 23:34:23 and even more a question: will it *sell* Jun 18 23:34:27 I'm forced to assume so. Jun 18 23:34:36 Given that Nokia has NOTHING else to offer until almost next year. Jun 18 23:35:02 But, I'm often overly optimistic. Jun 18 23:35:03 well at least windows phone isnt really selling either... Jun 18 23:35:04 ha... "redefining success". What a smart slogan. I guess for nokia, success has been redefined as "not being completely overtaken by everyone else" Jun 18 23:35:08 Nokia has to offer own graceful death, nothing more. That's my take on Nokia for this time Jun 18 23:36:18 and honestly who's going to buy RM680? maemo fanboys? hardly. Jun 18 23:36:33 meego fanboys? who are those anyway? Jun 18 23:36:50 Depends on how they position it Jun 18 23:36:53 huh Jun 18 23:36:58 If it's a compelling device with good appeal Jun 18 23:37:01 * DocScrutinizer slaps himself and shuts up Jun 18 23:37:01 Lots of people will buy it. Jun 18 23:37:03 I will buy it if it's significantly better than the n900 Jun 18 23:38:08 Shapeshifter: there is a LOT of hw 'better than N900' out there. Why exactly would you buy RM680? Jun 18 23:38:16 * nox- wonders if the best we'll get wont just end up as no-need-to-jailbreak android phones... Jun 18 23:38:20 Nokia folks were pretty enthusiastic about it in SF. Jun 18 23:38:40 nox-, sure seems to be trending that way. Jun 18 23:39:00 * GeneralAntilles trying to save an HTML attachment from Gmail last night on 2.2 almost made me kill myself. Jun 18 23:39:10 DocScrutinizer: it's not just about hardware Jun 18 23:39:22 Shapeshifter: exactly my point Jun 18 23:39:29 DocScrutinizer: if it has faster IO and a more streamlined/open linux, I may consider it Jun 18 23:39:43 maemo is a bother at times Jun 18 23:39:46 maemo5 Jun 18 23:40:08 I'm not temped to consider yet another closed linux ecosystem not compatible to maemo5 Jun 18 23:40:11 /How do people use Android and like it?!/ Jun 18 23:40:17 Is my question for the month Jun 18 23:40:37 `dont know better'? Jun 18 23:40:54 if this rm680 thing is done right regarding OS, it would even run maemo5 *binaries* Jun 18 23:41:05 heh Jun 18 23:41:18 nox-, but people like zerojay and dneary moving from Maemo to Android. Jun 18 23:41:22 I couldn't manage it. Jun 18 23:41:24 DocScrutinizer: too many negations. what do you mean? Jun 18 23:41:34 eh? Jun 18 23:41:52 DocScrutinizer: you're saying you think they will be compatible Jun 18 23:41:52 GeneralAntilles, well maemo is kinda dead so might be understandable in a way... Jun 18 23:41:53 I mean I'm not interested in maemo5-meego-chimera Jun 18 23:42:00 err Jun 18 23:42:04 nox-, well, dneary was using a G1 at the time. Jun 18 23:42:06 I mean I'm not interested in maemo6-meego-chimera Jun 18 23:42:23 so you don't want them to be compatible? Jun 18 23:42:27 what exactly is rm680? Jun 18 23:42:33 smhar: the new mystery nokia Jun 18 23:42:59 ..that might never be sold :P Jun 18 23:43:00 commonly quoted as "N9" Jun 18 23:43:32 man. it's incredible, if you were able to add up all the hours people spend 'anticipating' some hazy device Jun 18 23:43:45 could be considered damage to the economy. and health Jun 18 23:43:48 probably shipped with a "meego" that's actually a maemo-harmattan crippled to >look like< meego Jun 18 23:43:56 Shapeshifter, doubtful. Jun 18 23:43:58 Pretty niche right here. Jun 18 23:44:01 is it release yet or a date announced? Jun 18 23:44:01 DocScrutinizer: eww, if you put it that way Jun 18 23:44:07 DocScrutinizer, haha Jun 18 23:44:57 but maemo5 is already a crippled linux Jun 18 23:45:09 and you bet it will cause more pain in your A** than you can take, trying to migrate from your m5 environment to that "meego" Jun 18 23:46:10 Shapeshifter: whatever maemo5 is, it's well supported by community and rather understood right now Jun 18 23:46:58 DocScrutinizer: mh, yeah. it can do some amazing stuff. at the same time, some things are just terrible. on a basic level. like modest. Jun 18 23:47:07 and alot of that support been based on the rationale of maemo-os to come would offer an easy migration path Jun 18 23:47:10 I really do not understand Nokia anymore, didn't they just dumped linux in favor of windows?! Jun 18 23:47:23 maps was also terrible, at least the alternatives are starting to be useful Jun 18 23:48:35 but it's not a very smart device. It's not a smart phone. more like a crippled miniature-laptop. Jun 18 23:48:47 which is also okay Jun 18 23:48:55 Shapeshifter: ask for those maps alternatives' availability for RM680 prior to jumping into it head down Jun 18 23:49:09 s/down/first/ Jun 18 23:49:10 DocScrutinizer meant: Shapeshifter: ask for those maps alternatives' availability for RM680 prior to jumping into it head first Jun 18 23:49:13 DocScrutinizer: oh I'm not one of those people who buy anything right after the release etc. Jun 18 23:49:16 or preorder Jun 18 23:49:21 preordering is something I cannot understand Jun 18 23:49:36 will read lots of angry reviews first. Jun 18 23:50:06 it was amazing to see how many people bought an N900 and were terribly unhappy, even though its limitations were apparent. Jun 18 23:50:41 smhar: yes, they did. However, they are committed - for reasons that are unclear - to release a 'meego' device - and they have not as yet backed away from this publically. Jun 18 23:51:08 I can't see jumping RM60 a single power user of N900 incl all the necessary auxiliary stuff from maemo-extras to make your life easier and phone useful for you Jun 18 23:51:18 RM680* Jun 18 23:51:32 It depends on what the basis is. Jun 18 23:51:34 Err Jun 18 23:51:40 DocScrutinizer: well if migration isn't hard and the stock apps are better plus the device being more powerful, I don't see much of a problem Jun 18 23:51:40 wwill it ever see the light of dayL Jun 18 23:51:40 what the underlying software is. Jun 18 23:51:44 ? Jun 18 23:51:49 loft306: We don't know. Jun 18 23:51:54 Shapeshifter: I preordered N900 on the rationale it had maemo as OS Jun 18 23:51:56 loft306: Those that do know can't say. Jun 18 23:52:13 DocScrutinizer: well you're an 'enthusiast' Jun 18 23:52:14 and if it dose will i have to goto EU? Jun 18 23:52:21 SpeedEvil, I lost my N900 and I am soon getting another one, I can not put my bets on nokia anymore, probably intel but not nokia Jun 18 23:52:39 enen though it passed the FCC Jun 18 23:52:55 Shapeshifter: migration will be a PITA Jun 18 23:52:59 loft306: DEvices can pass FCC and not be sold. Jun 18 23:53:05 i know Jun 18 23:53:06 just my 2 cents though Jun 18 23:53:10 DocScrutinizer: how do you know, now Jun 18 23:53:26 if it's really a maemo '6' Jun 18 23:53:31 posing as meego Jun 18 23:53:32 I extrapolate from what I know about meego-arm Jun 18 23:53:57 well, do you even know what package management it's going to use? Jun 18 23:53:59 I hope I'm wrong, honestly Jun 18 23:54:01 is it going to be rpm? Jun 18 23:54:19 nope, probably not, though I dunno Jun 18 23:54:33 it seems like we know nothing, neither positive nor negative. Jun 18 23:54:44 well, apart from nokia generally screwing up. Jun 18 23:54:52 I'm more concerned about all the 'middleware' libs and stuff, like sensors, location, whatnot Jun 18 23:55:00 Shapeshifter: More important than RPM. Will it support PNG? Jun 18 23:55:11 SpeedEvil: >.> Jun 18 23:55:29 Shapeshifter, I know something for sure by now, never trust Nokia on any thing they say, wait until you actually see the device Jun 18 23:55:32 PNG? as in... pictures? I'm not getting the joke. Jun 18 23:56:25 DocScrutinizer: so you fear the interfaces will be incompatible and all software using some middleware will break? Jun 18 23:56:38 Shapeshifter: nvm - someone at the meego conference who asked silly questions. Jun 18 23:57:20 all the hacks that fix issues for maemo5, starting at simple-backlight-applet over tweakr for user defined profiles, to dunno what. All that will not work anymore on maemo6-meego and I'm not willing to use a device that is back to the shitty UX maemo5 PR1.0 offered to me Jun 18 23:57:31 Shapeshifter: exactly Jun 18 23:57:56 a sane concern Jun 18 23:58:47 aaah PNG, now I got the pun Jun 19 00:00:01 Shapeshifter: there was an old Chinese guy asking inane questions in all of the talks at the MeeGo conf. Jun 19 00:00:13 "What does the Q stand for?" [in QML] Jun 19 00:00:22 "Awesome!" Jun 19 00:00:53 http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/5758755051/in/photostream Jun 19 00:00:54 basically I got same concerns with m6/meego-fake as with every OS update. I'm a power user that invests a lot of time to configure the user interface to his needs. I'm not willing to "simply reinstall windows to fix it" Jun 19 00:01:19 GeneralAntilles: oh Jun 19 00:01:57 DocScrutinizer: btw, backlight-applet, custom profiles, those are the kind of things I'd expect from a 'smartphone' Jun 19 00:02:01 like, basic Jun 19 00:02:05 Apparently he's a bit of a local legend in the valley Jun 19 00:02:09 Goes to many of the tech confs. Jun 19 00:02:11 first thing I do after a OS upgrade: figure how to reset all the stuff so it looks like the old OS Jun 19 00:02:30 DocScrutinizer: dinosaur Jun 19 00:02:31 I don't understand Jun 19 00:02:39 DocScrutinizer: you don't like change, do you Jun 19 00:02:40 for m6/meego there's no way to do that Jun 19 00:02:50 How can the creators of Maemo, something so perfect, also make Symbian who sucks so hard Jun 19 00:03:02 Because Nokia is a big goddamn company. Jun 19 00:03:28 When is the N9 announcment? Jun 19 00:03:28 maybe they should've split up everything and become 'Nokia Holding' Jun 19 00:04:26 there's (been) nokia-maemo and there's nokia-symbian. The two are unrelated except for quite some fighting behind the scenes I guess Jun 19 00:05:04 But like Jun 19 00:05:09 They are so opposite Jun 19 00:05:15 The idea is completly diffrent Jun 19 00:06:10 "Hey lets make an open simple, usable and efficent os" vs "Hey lets make a locked down piece of shit, where software errors only can be fixed by reinstall, lets make it impssible to see what is fucking up your system, and lets close it down as much as possible" Jun 19 00:06:15 * DocScrutinizer suspects the meego-merger idea originated from some symbian-crew spindoctor Jun 19 00:07:55 jeez meego day one was on June 30, 2010... it's been that long? o.o Jun 19 00:08:25 depressing Jun 19 00:08:54 if that's what "synergy" gets you, then screw synergy Jun 19 00:09:56 maemo would be shining today, if they'd have put as much effort in making it clean, as they've put in meego just to make it run at all Jun 19 00:10:12 "future disruption in mobile ecosystem" that sounds so desperate... Jun 19 00:11:45 ...and probably been meant exactly as desperate as it sounds Jun 19 00:12:19 haha Jun 19 00:13:21 they never managed to integrate maemo into "Ovi eco-system" Jun 19 00:13:52 didnt try hard enough Jun 19 00:14:06 It's openmoko writ large. Jun 19 00:14:16 yeah Jun 19 00:14:22 (though with maybe 100* the sales and an actual usable device) Jun 19 00:14:24 a fsckng deja-vu Jun 19 00:14:51 (not knocking the OM hardware) Jun 19 00:14:53 :) Jun 19 00:15:14 nah, N900 had better potential than FR Jun 19 00:15:33 both the hw (obviously) and the OS Jun 19 00:15:36 Sure, but the hw wasn't the limit. Jun 19 00:15:43 fr? Jun 19 00:15:46 never been Jun 19 00:15:52 FreeRunner Jun 19 00:16:11 I can't wait for N9 Jun 19 00:16:16 it's always the management screwing up by patronizing SW department into weird directions Jun 19 00:16:24 I am hearing 64gb storage Jun 19 00:16:37 so what? Jun 19 00:16:49 I can install maemo for it? Jun 19 00:16:53 I cab put 64GB storage into my N900 tomorrow Jun 19 00:17:00 can* Jun 19 00:17:11 really? Jun 19 00:17:12 I can mount a 2tb local nfs share on mine, go me! Jun 19 00:17:27 lolcat: really Jun 19 00:17:31 I can mount 6x 2tb usb disks Jun 19 00:17:40 It doens't make it practical Jun 19 00:17:40 32GB eMMC + 32GB uSD Jun 19 00:17:54 ... Jun 19 00:18:06 But the N9 does 32 eMMC + 64 Jun 19 00:18:15 pfff Jun 19 00:18:47 It has like, 1gb ram Jun 19 00:18:53 And like, stuff that you need Jun 19 00:19:33 BS, see above. It has 512MB ram Jun 19 00:19:48 Above? Jun 19 00:19:56 Doesn't the N900? Jun 19 00:20:05 no Jun 19 00:20:09 search backscoll for 512MB Jun 19 00:20:27 gsmarena says 728 or something Jun 19 00:21:17 when I'm rich, I will make a good open phone Jun 19 00:21:23 just you wait and see :< Jun 19 00:21:49 When I'm rich, I want to follow in the steps of Richard Branston. Jun 19 00:21:50 Shapeshifter, openmoko2 ? Jun 19 00:22:15 (waterskiiing round his own private island with a naked supermodel on his back) Jun 19 00:22:25 mAKIN a good phone is so easy Jun 19 00:22:27 But a open phone, or 4:3 laptops would be good. Jun 19 00:22:33 Real debian + maemo gui Jun 19 00:22:35 Done Jun 19 00:22:50 sorry, no debian Jun 19 00:22:50 could you add 16:10 monitors to the list as well? Jun 19 00:22:53 To develop a decent phone saleable as a mass market device is going to cost 10 million. Jun 19 00:22:55 * DocScrutinizer smells trolling Jun 19 00:23:16 That is - for an initial run of 50000 or so, and software development. Jun 19 00:23:24 DocScrutinizer: Seriously, that is all it needs. A dialer, contacts, IM integration. it can't be that complicated Jun 19 00:23:31 nid0: you know the silicon graphics SW1600? Jun 19 00:23:36 Debian is allready made, gui is just graphics Jun 19 00:24:00 lolcat: go ahead, you got all the platform, with m5 and N900 Jun 19 00:24:05 lolcat: powersaving is hard. Jun 19 00:24:17 my phone will run on diesel. Jun 19 00:24:39 Shapeshifter: they certainly exist, but theyre irritatingly rare and hellishly expensive since all the monitor manufactures cheaped out and started using TV panels Jun 19 00:24:45 brb developing thumb sized diesel fuel cells Jun 19 00:24:53 4:3 screens also exist. Jun 19 00:24:57 New. Jun 19 00:25:05 m5? Jun 19 00:25:10 they are even less eyewateringly expensive than they were a couple of years ago. Jun 19 00:25:35 nid0: A colleague is giving one away. :| but I don't want that AGP2x card. And I don't want to buy one of those new adaptors for 160usd if I can just buy a 24" screen for 200usd. Jun 19 00:25:44 SpeedEvil: SSD + amoled Jun 19 00:25:45 and after all, it's just 17" Jun 19 00:25:52 A cpu with three cores Jun 19 00:26:02 one small one for ideling and interrupts Jun 19 00:26:09 2 big ones for aweseomness Jun 19 00:26:54 where did openmoko get their funding from? Jun 19 00:27:12 lolcat: please tell me the part number, we're going to use that asym MP device for our next product Jun 19 00:27:27 Shapeshifter: FIC basically Jun 19 00:27:46 DocScrutinizer: what's that? Jun 19 00:27:58 which led to the common misconception of OM *being* a FIC subdivision Jun 19 00:28:10 Fist International Computers Jun 19 00:28:17 First even Jun 19 00:28:25 DocScrutinizer: Yout next product? Jun 19 00:28:26 mhh Jun 19 00:30:15 lolcat: Openmoko GTA03-mk2 been following the concept of offloading small tasks to a small auxiliary CPU Jun 19 00:30:16 DocScrutinizer: so, why did the openmoko fail? Jun 19 00:30:21 apart from being terribly fat Jun 19 00:30:33 Shapeshifter: Software Jun 19 00:30:43 Venture capital said "it's enough now" Jun 19 00:30:50 um im trying to see what flash versions are available for my N900 but im getting very confused, could someone pls point me somewhere or sum it up? kthx Jun 19 00:30:52 DocScrutinizer: But you don't have a cpu to do it? Jun 19 00:31:04 ludens: Flash 10 Jun 19 00:31:12 ludens: iirc flash 9 Jun 19 00:31:13 lolcat: thanks and where do i get it? Jun 19 00:31:24 lolcat: we don't have a company to build any device from OM now Jun 19 00:31:27 ludens: ham? Jun 19 00:31:41 DocScrutinizer: I am sure china has one Jun 19 00:32:23 ludens: there's exactly one proper flash version: the rev9 shipped with maemo, which got some patches to be more like 10 rather than 9 Jun 19 00:32:58 ok thx DocScrutinizer Jun 19 00:33:03 thats what i suspected Jun 19 00:33:07 there's no update or alternative that really delivers Jun 19 00:33:07 I hate how software for maemo is half-assedly patched - basically just to break compatibility Jun 19 00:33:12 pulse is one example Jun 19 00:33:13 and it wont run any new flash stuff Jun 19 00:34:26 man. it's incredible how far behind the phone market is regarding openness Jun 19 00:35:30 ha Jun 19 00:35:32 indeed Jun 19 00:35:33 what does TweakFlash do? Jun 19 00:35:41 I didn't know android wasn't a google project at the beginning... http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/aug2005/tc20050817_0949_tc024.htm Jun 19 00:35:54 it tweaks the maemo flashlib to report rev10 afaik Jun 19 00:35:55 will it make it possible to see more videos that i cant see now? Jun 19 00:35:56 'The search giant quietly acquires the startup, netting possibly a key player in its push into wireless, "the next frontier in search"' Jun 19 00:35:58 okay Jun 19 00:35:59 ludens: ^^^ Jun 19 00:36:00 oh how right they were Jun 19 00:36:08