**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 21 02:59:56 2011 Jun 21 03:00:03 mmpf Jun 21 03:00:35 you're aware that, given formfactor, you're better off with 5MP than with 12 ? Jun 21 03:01:32 SpeedEvil will love to explain to you in gory detail why huge number of megapixel is absolutely useless for a sensor of <1cm^3 Jun 21 03:01:44 http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/MeeGo/ Jun 21 03:02:49 ok so the n950 is the developer phone Jun 21 03:03:00 FUCK CLEAN MODERN LOOK AND FEEL!! Jun 21 03:03:09 its /l/i-ted at the bottom of that page Jun 21 03:03:21 *listed Jun 21 03:04:02 http://swipe.nokia.com/ Jun 21 03:04:49 ok, no hw kbd -> ***USELESS*** Jun 21 03:05:00 take your N9 and eat it Jun 21 03:05:14 I want one if it's Meego. Jun 21 03:05:37 Oh, it is. Jun 21 03:05:51 qt lives Jun 21 03:06:17 meego Jun 21 03:06:31 anything confirmed for after the n900 yet? Jun 21 03:06:34 DocScrutinizer: plug-in kbd? Jun 21 03:06:45 screwit Jun 21 03:07:12 ok - screw-in then ;) Jun 21 03:08:05 see, I was able to "plug in kbd" to my old 6210 of 1999. Using a N810 "kbd" Jun 21 03:08:34 I don't need nor want yetanother iPhone-me-too Jun 21 03:08:41 when's the N9 coming out? Jun 21 03:08:49 who cares? Jun 21 03:08:57 the one asking the question Jun 21 03:09:00 Choom, "Later this year" Jun 21 03:09:07 aight, thanks Jun 21 03:09:10 http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/MeeGo/ Jun 21 03:09:53 is there a list of hs specifications? Jun 21 03:10:05 I didn't manage to find one on that site Jun 21 03:10:30 as usual didnt give a ship date Jun 21 03:11:20 oh Jun 21 03:11:25 they're there on the right Jun 21 03:11:40 The document you tried to retrieve does not exist on this server. You might have misspelled the name of the file, or the link is outdated. Please remove the incorrect bookmark or inform an administrator. Jun 21 03:11:44 nevermind... Jun 21 03:12:01 well, it's been pretty obvious since months if not "years" meego is heading towards a crippled iphone/android-alike UX. Now we see the result. I simply hate it Jun 21 03:12:26 heh - nokia at their best :/ Jun 21 03:13:49 * DocScrutinizer hugs his N900 Jun 21 03:14:00 * DocScrutinizer hugs his other N900 Jun 21 03:14:24 * DocScrutinizer starts watching ebay for cheap 3rd and 4th and 5th N900 Jun 21 03:14:57 my N900 is doing well - need a 2nd one for a 2nd sim card ;) Jun 21 03:15:02 * DocScrutinizer hugs his both N810, so they don't feel sad Jun 21 03:15:55 * jpinx is waiting for the chinese to make a n900 dualsim version ;) Jun 21 03:16:19 lol Jun 21 03:16:25 only part that *constantly* sucked on all maemo devices been the vkbd. Quite obvious reasonable decision to go for a hw-kbd-less N9 ;-P Jun 21 03:16:34 don't tell me their big innovation is ... swipe? Jun 21 03:16:52 not even something with multitouch? Jun 21 03:17:11 Yeah, I don't want the next n900 to come out yet Jun 21 03:17:14 I like my n900 Jun 21 03:17:21 Don't want to have to spend anymore Jun 21 03:17:26 and redo all my configs Jun 21 03:17:40 internetishard: 100% on your page Jun 21 03:18:01 Though I still need a work around to automatically connect to only my home wifi, and nothing else besides the gsm connection Jun 21 03:18:08 I do, though I may end up joining the iphone bandwagon if it turns out to be crap Jun 21 03:18:14 * DocScrutinizer doesn't really wish all the best to N9 "meego" Jun 21 03:18:18 How's cosmology going DocScrutinizer? Jun 21 03:19:00 well, seems they still got no answer what's dark energy, not to mention dark mater Jun 21 03:19:23 Because it is a mathematical fudge factor to correct the big bang theory Jun 21 03:19:30 so it doesn't look ridiculous in the face of new observations Jun 21 03:19:34 oh hi Jun 21 03:19:39 and /me is still wondering if there shouldn't be planets made of dark mater out there Jun 21 03:19:51 so, n9's out now D: Jun 21 03:19:57 what is your training on this topic DocScrutinizer? Jun 21 03:19:59 They'd microlense. Jun 21 03:20:02 bindi: I wish Jun 21 03:20:04 shipping later this year they say Jun 21 03:20:15 announced/released whatever :P Jun 21 03:20:22 wondering what kind of cpu does it have Jun 21 03:20:24 internetishard: my training on any topic is, well unconventional Jun 21 03:20:30 That's cool Jun 21 03:20:40 I mean, what did you read, etc Jun 21 03:20:54 on a strict start-early-start-solitaire approach Jun 21 03:21:06 swipe.nokia.com bindi Jun 21 03:21:20 I'm more concerned about its sensors and touchscreen Jun 21 03:21:25 lofty306: yes? Jun 21 03:21:37 DocScrutinizer, what do you think of the tired light theory? Jun 21 03:21:47 It might be a fun thing to look into Jun 21 03:21:52 internetishard: TV, internet, occasional scientific mags - for cosmology Jun 21 03:22:14 internetishard: tired light has quite some appeal to me Jun 21 03:23:04 I'm even pondering a slow change in some cosmological constant that affects light during the billions of years it travels Jun 21 03:23:25 It has appeal to me too Jun 21 03:23:34 Do you have any research in being part of a research group? Jun 21 03:23:41 Maybe you could help with some software models Jun 21 03:23:42 like a slow tuning of the *global* clock Jun 21 03:24:09 Yes, I believe in an evolving universe Jun 21 03:24:14 internetishard: not enough spare time to waste on that Jun 21 03:24:14 but mostly on the local level Jun 21 03:24:18 Ah, okay Jun 21 03:24:23 Just curious, you seem interested enough Jun 21 03:27:27 http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-n9-00/check-availability?cid=ncomprod-fw-ilc-bdy-n9lnkms2pp_228x96-na-ms_swipe-g0-en-1todtmt773311 lol not in germany? Jun 21 03:27:31 * DocScrutinizer claims the wins from hiis "SUCKS" bet Jun 21 03:27:49 nihtoo close to me? ;-P Jun 21 03:27:57 NIN101: ^^^ Jun 21 03:28:17 N9, no hardware keyboard Jun 21 03:28:19 :{{{{ Jun 21 03:29:46 http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n9-3398.php Jun 21 03:29:48 interesting Jun 21 03:30:32 ooooooooo Jun 21 03:30:33 Choom: haha, that's definitely a hoax, no? Jun 21 03:30:37 http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-n9-00/specifications i would trust this Jun 21 03:30:45 Ken-Young: Ken-Young they'd only micro lense anti-light ;) Jun 21 03:30:52 DocScrutinizer: I don't know Jun 21 03:30:59 hopes > /dev/null Jun 21 03:31:24 iphone clone that is Jun 21 03:31:34 Choom: I don't see that nice slide-out kbd of that picture, in any of the orginal Nokia shots Jun 21 03:31:36 I don't think the most efficient interface is something with a bunch of app shortcuts Jun 21 03:32:06 any idea of it is resistive or capacitive touch? Jun 21 03:32:16 internetishard: [2011-06-21 05:06:35] I don't need nor want yetanother iPhone-me-too Jun 21 03:32:17 I kind of got used to resistive, I'd rather have it Jun 21 03:32:25 haha^ yep Jun 21 03:32:32 [2011-06-21 05:02:51] ok, no hw kbd -> ***USELESS*** Jun 21 03:32:46 people think I'm chatting to them from my computer still Jun 21 03:32:48 still* Jun 21 03:32:58 And sometimes they still can't keep up - which is sad Jun 21 03:33:08 learn2stenograph Jun 21 03:33:08 internetishard: for all known it's c-ts Jun 21 03:33:30 :-/ Jun 21 03:33:39 using my phone with gloves on in front of other people is so bad ass Jun 21 03:33:40 haha Jun 21 03:33:43 I'd rather have capacitive Jun 21 03:33:44 in chicago winters Jun 21 03:33:46 especially sad given the missing hw-kbd Jun 21 03:33:55 Choom: then again, you'd almost rather have an iphone Jun 21 03:34:15 yep Jun 21 03:34:17 and the n9 doesn't look like an easy phone to get a battery out of Jun 21 03:34:27 it's not Jun 21 03:34:29 I carry 3 batteries always and can run all the time Jun 21 03:34:38 probably secured by screws Jun 21 03:34:44 ick Jun 21 03:34:44 internetishard: indeed, too bad apple forces so many restrictions on sw development Jun 21 03:35:02 depends what you're after Jun 21 03:35:12 internetishard: change batteries without halting the system? Jun 21 03:35:15 if it is money, then yeah, go dev for the iphone (or better yet android, depending upon the app) Jun 21 03:35:24 I don't no, but I heard people can Jun 21 03:35:36 but I get them in and out and booted pretty quickly Jun 21 03:35:43 no fucking around with screws Jun 21 03:35:44 Choom: the extend in which meego is approaching the android way, you're not much better off with an N9 than with an iPhone Jun 21 03:36:34 the hardware the n9 packs doesn't seem more open than the n900 Jun 21 03:36:48 you bet it isn't Jun 21 03:36:49 that's not my issue Jun 21 03:36:58 my issue is not being able to run daemons on an iphone Jun 21 03:36:59 Ah fuck Jun 21 03:37:03 N9/meego never been about more openness Jun 21 03:37:06 You sure of that DocScrutinizer? Jun 21 03:37:06 in my book Jun 21 03:37:15 Jun 21 03:37:18 http://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/pages/Gestures.html Jun 21 03:37:24 well, then, I wonder if openmoko will come back or something Jun 21 03:37:35 I want my pocket unix workstation Jun 21 03:37:46 with limitless modularity Jun 21 03:37:53 Modularity is hard. Jun 21 03:37:59 * SpeedEvil should write up this rant. Jun 21 03:38:00 and a pop-out telephone booth Jun 21 03:38:02 internetishard: OM is dead Jun 21 03:38:06 definitely Jun 21 03:38:08 I heard Jun 21 03:38:20 if the n9 sucks I want something like openmoko revitalized Jun 21 03:38:31 they came up with a movie bookmark site idea recently Jun 21 03:38:37 how expensive is n900s R&D anyway? Jun 21 03:38:49 some mio Jun 21 03:38:58 In short - if you want modularity - there are lots of hidden costs to it. You have to pick a size for the module - which will be non optimal for some, not fit for others. You need a case around the module, static protection, extra decoupling, a case and a hole for the module. Jun 21 03:39:01 if the n9 ends up sucking I'll just buy an iphone 5 Jun 21 03:39:06 This weakens and makes the case less stiff. Jun 21 03:39:17 someone should front the money and get the best specs in there to make the n900 replacement Jun 21 03:39:39 I guess I didn't mean that type of modularity, SpeedEvil Jun 21 03:39:41 internetishard: To make a mass market phone with - say - 50000 units up front - you need 10M Jun 21 03:40:19 I always wondered how hard it really is Jun 21 03:40:32 to plan ahead, to say, make sure the n900 doesn't have gps like today's Jun 21 03:40:38 (in reply to SpeedEvil ) all this ends with a rationale it's cheaper to throw everything into one model of non-modular phone than having any changeable modules at all Jun 21 03:40:48 I'd still use a resistive screen, I think Jun 21 03:41:02 multitouch though Jun 21 03:41:35 stantum r-ts FTW Jun 21 03:41:44 Yes, that is nice Jun 21 03:42:02 How hard is it to make a phone that is compatible with cdma & gsm? Jun 21 03:42:10 Not that I'd want cdma, but 4g would be nice Jun 21 03:42:39 internetishard: CDMA basically means - as you probably mean it - operator approval. Jun 21 03:42:52 You literally cannot make a phone if the operator does not want it. Jun 21 03:42:55 if it sux.. ill just revert to the 900 aadn put droid in it too Jun 21 03:43:47 Maybe more people would buy such a phone if it closed more of the gap between netbooks and phones Jun 21 03:43:58 for example, the next n900 comes with a bluetooth fold up keyboard Jun 21 03:44:09 the retards would be like, "no fukcing way" Jun 21 03:44:18 thus, opening a new market of sorts Jun 21 03:44:38 heh, sorry, when I'm in IRC I'm usually in #startups Jun 21 03:45:32 and a projector screen Jun 21 03:45:41 hah Jun 21 03:45:44 a projector keyboard Jun 21 03:45:46 thoes exist Jun 21 03:45:57 but I wouldn't do the projector, of course (I took that as a joke) Jun 21 03:46:23 I'd go for an optional projector screen Jun 21 03:46:25 SpeedEvil: why doesn't the FCC regulate those things? Jun 21 03:46:45 because the people who are appointed to the FCC were from the industry Jun 21 03:46:48 Choom: It does. Jun 21 03:46:50 and get props if they help it Jun 21 03:46:54 Choom: But not in the way you want. Jun 21 03:47:01 help the industry = help their friends who profit from it Jun 21 03:47:02 Choom: GSM came from europe. Jun 21 03:47:13 Choom: From phone-makers, and was closed. Jun 21 03:47:18 open Jun 21 03:47:27 CDMA came from network operators, and was closed. Jun 21 03:48:29 Also, I'd like to have more privacy from the man (men?) than a google phone could offer Jun 21 03:50:15 Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah Jun 21 03:50:17 Hello all Jun 21 03:50:24 hi RST38h Jun 21 03:50:28 nice talk guys Jun 21 03:50:35 you ""missed all the fun"" Jun 21 03:50:49 Doc: But at least I got some sleep Jun 21 03:50:54 Doc: So, how bad is it? Jun 21 03:50:56 indeed Jun 21 03:51:01 worse Jun 21 03:51:17 anyway, if anyone figures out a way to trick my phone into only auto connecting to my home wifi network (not others - but without getting rid of the other wep keys I've saved), then I'd appreciate it. Jun 21 03:51:23 Doc: ? Jun 21 03:51:25 a me-too-iPhone Jun 21 03:51:38 I am ok with that. Anything specific? Jun 21 03:51:48 no hw kbd, not even configurable mostly Jun 21 03:51:52 someone needs to get close to nokias staff/designers and befriend them Jun 21 03:52:07 Doc: You mean, no shell? Jun 21 03:52:13 I know some girls that would bang them if they promise to put a mechanical keyboard on it Jun 21 03:52:35 was beginning to think I was alone feeling excited about the me-too-iphone thing Jun 21 03:52:36 I know some GUYS that'd ... nvm Jun 21 03:52:46 haha Jun 21 03:53:23 heh - krayon is volunteering? Jun 21 03:53:26 Meanwhile: To aid the speedy development of apps for the Nokia N9 smartphone, Nokia has produced a limited number of developer phones, the Nokia N950 phone. This phone isn't available for purchase and can only be obtained through selected developer programs, such as Nokia Developer LaunchPad. Jun 21 03:53:47 a pocket linux workstation on a me-too-iphone kind of device is exactly what I wish Jun 21 03:53:53 s/on/in Jun 21 03:53:57 RST38h: I mean "swipe" and "only 3 locations to look at" Jun 21 03:54:40 Doc: Ok, so, no keyboard. I can see that. What about the rest though? Jun 21 03:54:45 jpinx: Depends what we're talking about :/ Jun 21 03:55:03 I'm also hoping for a digital compass and a multitouch-able capacitive touchscreen this time Jun 21 03:55:05 jpinx: If it's a newer awesomer N900 and it doesn't have a keyboard then... maybe. Jun 21 03:55:09 RST38h: obviously no slot for removable storage (read SD card) Jun 21 03:55:26 Doc: But a 64GB internal option. Jun 21 03:55:34 Doc: Any other bad surprises? Jun 21 03:55:40 non removable battery? Jun 21 03:55:44 none for me Jun 21 03:55:51 yeah, probably Jun 21 03:56:34 honestly this device is as boring as a new iPhone variant of case color Jun 21 03:57:02 Doc: Again, I am ok with iPhone, as long as the toilet plunger is taken out of the picture Jun 21 03:57:08 definitely built for another customer target group Jun 21 03:57:25 I wonder how many different antennas would have to be used for a phone that had am/fm, gsm, and 4G... Jun 21 03:57:27 Doc: If this slab is iPhone sans the plunger,I am all for it Jun 21 03:57:37 RST38h: same Jun 21 03:57:41 i.e. how much does that much more compatibility raise the cost ( or size)? Jun 21 03:58:52 internetishard: not that many chipsets for 4G yet Jun 21 03:59:25 so it is the chipset, not the physical antenna? Jun 21 04:00:02 also like 3G the 3(4)GPP will ask for royalties which are like 10% of sales price of device Jun 21 04:00:02 mainly, I want something that does everything. By far the best is the n900 - and I like how obtainable it is. Jun 21 04:00:17 fuck Jun 21 04:00:26 where can I read about royalties like that? Jun 21 04:00:35 Doc: Anyway, so far this looks relatively ok Jun 21 04:01:29 RST38h: yeah it's prolly ok for an iPhone/Andridiot-Me-Too Jun 21 04:03:12 I don't think a large number of users that came from N8x0 and hoped for a device that integrates phone functions into their beloved nit, will be happy with this device though, no matter how smart the friggin 3-homes-GUI, no matter how fast the html5-browser Jun 21 04:05:23 my take on it: N900/maemo got taken over by the folks that came to it while actually searching for a Nokia alternative to iPhone. So this "successor" "meego"-phone is definitely abandoning the NIT concept and satisfying this new customer class Jun 21 04:05:44 what about the people in charge of building and designing the hardware? Jun 21 04:05:51 isn't it their fault or the fault of their employers? Jun 21 04:06:28 also, I'm curious about this 4g royalties thing Jun 21 04:06:48 DocScrutinizer: well, obviously, it's more mainstream, but what don't you like about it? Jun 21 04:06:55 most people I know with an N900 did not come from the N8xx crowd, me included Jun 21 04:07:11 Doc: I do think a lot of Maemians will jump to it though Jun 21 04:07:11 konttori_work: basically the whole concept Jun 21 04:07:25 nor me - I wanted a smaller eeepc that could phone ;) Jun 21 04:07:27 Doc: Because, it is still a Maemo device Jun 21 04:07:27 a linux workstation inside an iphone is all I'm lookignf for, actually Jun 21 04:07:28 ah. that it doesn't have kb? Jun 21 04:07:32 i skippd the N8xx Jun 21 04:07:40 Just looking mainstream is not a sin Jun 21 04:07:45 konttori_work: main point, yes Jun 21 04:08:00 well, that's something we all yearn for Jun 21 04:08:13 Doc: But I do think Nokia will squander it the way it squandered N900, with the burning platform and all :(( Jun 21 04:08:19 vkb works surprisingly well, but it's never full kb Jun 21 04:08:28 n950 of course does have it Jun 21 04:08:35 konttori: Personally, I will be trying to get the N950 instead :) Jun 21 04:08:38 did we announce that? Jun 21 04:08:48 It's more like a "smartphone" less of a computer.. Jun 21 04:08:53 konttori: You did. In a single 4-line paragraph at the bottom of N9 developers page. Jun 21 04:09:10 N900 was a computer. That means a tool for a computer type stuff, not just for comms. Jun 21 04:09:11 konttori_work: you know nobody can get a N950 Jun 21 04:09:21 doc put in forc an n950 Jun 21 04:09:30 Doc: We will see to that =) Jun 21 04:09:31 I have a n950 Jun 21 04:09:34 https://meego.com/community/device-program/devices/nokia-n9-devkit Jun 21 04:09:37 PolarFox: most of my computer-y interactions with my n900 are through ssh Jun 21 04:09:48 But surprisingly, I have been using lankku only Jun 21 04:09:55 Doc: It should be available via DDP, and if it is, I am getting it. Jun 21 04:10:02 it's really much better media and all around device Jun 21 04:10:24 the 9 or the 950 konttori_work Jun 21 04:10:54 well, how do you know what royalties you have to pay for what cutting edge hardware you put in your phone Jun 21 04:11:34 internetishard: usually you get to know when talking with chip manufs, cert authorities, etc Jun 21 04:11:38 lawyers make money finding out what licenses you need to pay and to who.. :) Jun 21 04:14:27 :( that thing doesn't look very nice. Jun 21 04:14:37 konttori_work: 250 N950 devices - that's definitely nothing. Plus a nice proof what I definitely dislike about the N9: it obviously needs a developer device as you can't do real work on the main model N9 meant for the lusers Jun 21 04:14:58 no, you can develop on N9 Jun 21 04:15:12 so why a N950 then? Jun 21 04:15:29 problem is that we don't currently have CE certified versions of it (as far as I recall, that was the reason). Jun 21 04:15:44 hah Jun 21 04:15:46 And we wanted to get the devices out to devs as soon as possible Jun 21 04:16:06 I am not 100% sure if that's the ultimate reason, but that's my understanding Jun 21 04:16:37 well, I *might* be interested in a N950, to evaluate and find ways to improve it. I'm definitely not interested in N9 Jun 21 04:18:09 konttori_work: I offered to do such evaluation for the >new device> for Nokia, for free. Nobody been interested, explanation mainly been 'my diction on IRC is mostly erratic' Jun 21 04:19:22 I don't know how we offer the devices. As a dev yu should be able to get one for sure Jun 21 04:19:24 konttori_work what cpu in the N9? if you can tell? Jun 21 04:20:22 omap3630, it's in the data sheet Jun 21 04:20:33 yeah Jun 21 04:20:37 data sheet link 404 Jun 21 04:20:55 http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/MeeGo/ on this page Jun 21 04:21:01 right side Jun 21 04:22:03 http://www.developer.nokia.com/General/File_Not_Found.xhtml Jun 21 04:22:48 konttori_work: those 250 lucky devels applying for a N950 are supposed to contribute to appstore with cute projects. I'm definitely no devel by this definition, as my contributions are more about things like wiki hardware pages, H-E-N USB hostmode enabling, kernel patches, stuff like that Jun 21 04:22:53 http://press.nokia.com/wp-content/uploads/mediaplugin/doc/1-nokia-n9-data-sheet.pdf Jun 21 04:23:14 konttori_work: maybe you need real testing rather than developing - to make sure the device actually islly is useful to the maximum number of users Jun 21 04:23:16 thnx wmarone Jun 21 04:23:33 konttori_work: *#-enabler... Jun 21 04:24:27 konttori_work: quite in line with what jpinx says Jun 21 04:27:16 the n900 was a brilliant concept, but poorly executed in it's original form and has taken a lot of work by guys here to make it really useful Jun 21 04:27:49 konttori_work, congrats on the N9 ;-) Jun 21 04:29:24 konttori_work is the battery integrated or removable? Jun 21 04:29:26 I think the N900 is by far still the best thing available and I'd be 100% happy if it were a little more powerful and the batteries lasted a little longer. But I fear I'm a minority of a minority. Jun 21 04:30:25 krayon: DocScrutinizer came up with a battery-swap routine withour powering down ;) Jun 21 04:30:46 s/withour/without Jun 21 04:31:23 krayon, I am still happy with my N900 Jun 21 04:31:48 and nokia would do themselves a huge favour if the devices were dualsim Jun 21 04:32:14 krayon: im with u Jun 21 04:32:38 * macmaN put Michael Jackson record on. Yooou are not alooooone Jun 21 04:33:09 * jpinx earmuffs on Jun 21 04:33:37 jpinx: I was unaware of that... that'd be a bit nicer then. I carry 3 batteries on me to get through the day. Not powering down would be good. Jun 21 04:33:50 I think the n900 is lacking in many aspects Jun 21 04:34:09 GAN900: So.... Is the N950 the N9 but with a slider keyboard on the back? would they BOTHER making two versions of the device, one for devs? >_> Jun 21 04:34:42 With keyboard device would be 1000% awesome. Jun 21 04:34:55 krayon: nah, i'm with you. if i weren't constantly paranoid about it breaking, and if it were a little faster, i would be in heaven Jun 21 04:35:02 i don't want a new phone, i want a more stable n900\ Jun 21 04:35:09 SpeedEvil: yes Jun 21 04:35:39 (device, not complete unit) Jun 21 04:35:41 SpeedEvil: i could care less about the n9 without a keyboard, but maybe the n950 is the slider version? there was that marketing clip with a new slider... Jun 21 04:35:44 it's way too thick for a phone, comes with a resistive touchscreen, lacks some sensors that I'd really like to take advantage of (compass, gyroscope), and maemo 5 lacks polish Jun 21 04:35:45 Software may make it less so Jun 21 04:35:54 ditto rm_you Jun 21 04:36:13 what's wrong with resistive? capacative blows Jun 21 04:36:23 i can't ever get capacative to function properly Jun 21 04:36:38 apple seems to have brainwashed everyone into thinking capacative is somehow better T_T Jun 21 04:37:04 i'd take resistive hands down any day Jun 21 04:37:23 rm_you: featurewise it is Jun 21 04:37:37 you have capacitive styli too Jun 21 04:37:50 i use my fingernails 99% of the time Jun 21 04:38:09 like to see someone make them work with a capacative screen <_< Jun 21 04:38:10 that's because your resistive screen isn't sensitive enough for you to use your fingertips Jun 21 04:38:14 maybe capacative fingernail polish? Jun 21 04:38:17 Choom: haha Jun 21 04:38:21 rofl no Jun 21 04:38:26 that is *not* why Jun 21 04:38:30 rm_you: Agreed, res > cap. Jun 21 04:38:34 why can i use my n900 with my fingers, then? Jun 21 04:38:53 my fingers WORK, but fingernails allow for actual precision Jun 21 04:39:00 kerio: so can I, but it's nowhere nearly as sensitive as a capacitive screen where you barely have to touch Jun 21 04:39:04 It's funny, I'm starting to see women with fake nails and their index nail is always missing/short :/ Jun 21 04:39:06 i'd like to see anyone ever even *joke* about using capacative for art tablets Jun 21 04:39:10 it's just not done Jun 21 04:39:20 resistive drives me nuts half the time tapping things 6 times to make it workk Jun 21 04:39:20 Choom: and why is that bad? Jun 21 04:39:57 anyway, the n9 will be a horrible failure Jun 21 04:39:58 kerio: it sucks for dragging stuff over the screen Jun 21 04:40:11 Choom: stylus Jun 21 04:40:15 fingernail Jun 21 04:40:24 which is more precise anyway Jun 21 04:40:31 anyway the often quoted mantra of N900 "it's NOT a phone" seems to have shifted for N9 to "it's not a computer" Jun 21 04:40:39 can use buttons without them being like an entire inch across Jun 21 04:40:48 yeah, as i said, it's going to be a horrile failure Jun 21 04:41:04 rm_you: the US is supposed to be designed for fingers, not styli Jun 21 04:41:08 err UI* Jun 21 04:41:35 DocScrutinizer: To an extent - yes. Jun 21 04:41:37 correct Jun 21 04:41:52 my point is just that it's far more accurate Jun 21 04:42:13 use a capacitive stylus Jun 21 04:42:22 if it matters that much Jun 21 04:42:25 DocScrutinizer: In principle if it can be a mass market device (though that is looking less likely, I admit) then volume of devs can make it work as a computer for those that want that - to a degree. Jun 21 04:42:33 rm_you: grow pointy fingernails? Jun 21 04:42:34 whenever my roommate hands me his iphone i have to struggle for a minute or two just to navigate to the right place because it always selects the wrong thing <_< Jun 21 04:42:44 I'd trade fingernail usage with uber sensitivity and multitouch any day Jun 21 04:43:06 jpinx: lolwut Jun 21 04:43:13 and then there are also the optic screens Jun 21 04:43:17 I have one on my desktop Jun 21 04:43:23 they combine the best of both worlds Jun 21 04:43:27 Choom, a stylus wont make it more precise. Jun 21 04:43:38 * GeneralAntilles dislikes the "uber sensitivity" Jun 21 04:43:44 Always sending presses I don't intend to. Jun 21 04:43:48 * SpeedEvil also. Jun 21 04:43:49 yes Jun 21 04:43:51 THAT Jun 21 04:44:05 GeneralAntilles: ++ Jun 21 04:44:27 optic = multitouch + sensitivity + being able to touch it with anything, though I don't know how feasible to is to implement those on a phone Jun 21 04:44:39 uhuh Jun 21 04:44:52 I just say Stantum, to answer that Jun 21 04:46:14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv3X5y-ajtc for those who want to know more Jun 21 04:47:39 Yeah THAT is awesome. When I first saw that ... I couldn't speak for a minute or two I was that excited... I had to lie down. Jun 21 04:48:49 lol Jun 21 04:48:51 nice DocScrutinizer Jun 21 04:49:15 seems quite cool Jun 21 04:49:32 its also old and the tech hasn't been used in anything Jun 21 04:50:16 which either means that it's expensive to produce or doesnt work as well as advertised Jun 21 04:50:34 T_T Jun 21 04:53:04 so is there anything that the new meego device is not better at compared to n900? Jun 21 04:53:30 it's just everybody hypes capacitive, without knowing shit about what that really means. More often than not capacitive is used as a synonym for multitouch. Then when sourcing is searching for capacitive touchpanel they hardly run into stantum Jun 21 04:53:39 macmaN: having a useful keyboard? Jun 21 04:53:45 it's MUCH worse at that Jun 21 04:54:04 aside from that obviously. purely software wise. Jun 21 04:54:15 maemo 5 vs meego 1.2 Jun 21 04:54:20 rm_you, you dont know that Jun 21 04:54:22 and apps on top of that Jun 21 04:54:33 it could have a great virtual keyboard Jun 21 04:54:34 hardware specs anywhere? Jun 21 04:54:35 DocScrutinizer: Oh YOUR joerg_rw? Jun 21 04:54:41 yes Jun 21 04:54:50 ~ DocScrutinizer Jun 21 04:54:50 none of the screenshots on swipe.nokia.com show any vkb shots Jun 21 04:54:50 well, docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko Jun 21 04:54:58 DocScrutinizer: yeah i was saying earlier, apple just managed to brainwash everyone into thinking that capacative was BETTER, because they were scared of going to market with an inferior technology, so it was easier just to convince people it was better first :P Jun 21 04:55:08 the few people that HAVE used the N9 say the vkb is really nice Jun 21 04:55:17 DocScrutinizer: Thanks for all your awesome posts then :D Jun 21 04:55:19 macmaN: guess why Jun 21 04:55:30 :) Jun 21 04:55:30 regardless, I signed up for an N950 through the company i develop for Jun 21 04:55:31 Sazpaimon: it could have the best vkbd in the world and it would be crap compared to hardware kbd >_> Jun 21 04:55:39 krayon: yo are welcome. Nice to hear you like them Jun 21 04:55:39 we specialize in video streaming technology Jun 21 04:55:48 so I'm pretty sure we can get a N950 Jun 21 04:56:04 rm_you: i feel you with the kb thing, but im kinda torn with the thickness issue that it brings Jun 21 04:56:22 unless we can get to a point where we could get a paper thing hw kb... Jun 21 04:56:22 i'm holding out hope that the n950 is a slider version of that with a real keyboard T_T\ Jun 21 04:56:34 eh, the thickness is well worth it Jun 21 04:56:36 paper thin* Jun 21 04:56:41 rm_you: it is, but getting your hands on one will probably be... difficult Jun 21 04:56:48 i used to carry around a BT keyboard with my n800 everywhere i went Jun 21 04:56:50 literally everywhere Jun 21 04:57:07 people made fun of me quite a bit <_< Jun 21 04:57:11 stowaway keyboard ftfw Jun 21 04:57:15 so would much rather have it ATTACHED to the phone Jun 21 04:57:17 machia, the E7 is only slightly larger than the N8 Jun 21 04:57:23 and it has a hwkb Jun 21 04:57:31 yeah I will have to sign up for the dev program somehow <_< Jun 21 04:57:39 through maemo.org maybe Jun 21 04:57:50 i still have some dev cred there... a shred at least <_< Jun 21 04:57:53 maybe it will be enough Jun 21 04:58:10 rm_you, you can sign up at meego.com for open source devs Jun 21 04:58:26 professional developers (like myself) can sign up through nokia.com Jun 21 04:58:29 i don't have a problem just BUYING one tho Jun 21 04:58:32 like srsly Jun 21 04:58:42 Sazpaimon: i actually have a corp nokia account from the last device program... Jun 21 04:58:48 the n900 one Jun 21 04:58:51 i wonder if that works... Jun 21 04:58:57 give it a try Jun 21 05:00:09 hrm. need to find the meego device program page... had it before... Jun 21 05:00:16 rm_you: heard you opted for 128 steps rather than 5, for brightness setting :-) I feel with you - though pobably 12 steps would be enough, from a physiological PoV Jun 21 05:00:20 found it Jun 21 05:00:35 lol Doc Jun 21 05:00:42 did you ever use ABL? Jun 21 05:00:53 what's ABL? Jun 21 05:00:58 Advanced Backlight' Jun 21 05:01:07 sure, can't live without Jun 21 05:01:08 the program i wrote like 3 years ago for Diablo Jun 21 05:01:10 lol Jun 21 05:01:18 err, it's simple brightness though Jun 21 05:01:20 you still on n800 then? :P Jun 21 05:01:21 ah Jun 21 05:01:25 yeah that was Qwerty Jun 21 05:01:52 I'd have to check what's on my diablo device Jun 21 05:01:57 prolly ABL Jun 21 05:02:02 likely Jun 21 05:02:03 does it combine volume and backlight? Jun 21 05:02:09 yep Jun 21 05:02:11 and allow rotation? Jun 21 05:02:12 :P Jun 21 05:02:13 yeah Jun 21 05:02:25 dunno about rotation Jun 21 05:02:32 it will just show up in there Jun 21 05:02:43 if you install the right version of Xomap and xrandr Jun 21 05:02:51 ^_^ Jun 21 05:02:53 aah, never did Jun 21 05:02:55 that was jott Jun 21 05:03:00 miss that guy, lol Jun 21 05:03:13 DocScrutinizer: there will be extras devel and you can be as hard core as you want Jun 21 05:03:37 konttori_work: sorry? please rephrase Jun 21 05:04:11 jpinx-away: well, at the moment, we are doing a lot of QA ourselves and now that we can start using it in public, we'll be able to have very widespread real world issue reporting from all of our internal devs Jun 21 05:04:32 DocScrutinizer: that we are not blocking you from changing kernel or anything else Jun 21 05:04:35 you don't need to do cute, you can do hardcore Jun 21 05:05:10 oh, you suggest I try to apply for N950 lease nevertheless? :-) Jun 21 05:05:19 mikhas_: thanks! loft306: it's removable, but behind screws and display. Not easy, but I've done it a few times. Jun 21 05:05:23 we need kernel guys Jun 21 05:05:35 It's perfectly safe to do, but not something you do on the road Jun 21 05:05:44 DocScrutinizer: why not Jun 21 05:05:56 I'm waiting for overclocked kernel. Jun 21 05:06:23 can one buy a N950? Jun 21 05:06:27 just thought it'd be useless as I clearly don't fulfill the prerequisites of being an app devel Jun 21 05:06:33 ShadowJK: nope Jun 21 05:06:41 With aegis reporting true without any checks (saves RAM, speeds up boot times). Jun 21 05:06:55 ShadowJK: no, n950 is strictly dev device Jun 21 05:07:32 :( Jun 21 05:08:34 DocScrutinizer: fill it in. I'll discuss with developer program guys that we need a few community hackers as well Jun 21 05:08:38 konttori_work:I didn't know it was anything more than a name and meego device coming out in the next year Jun 21 05:08:53 konttori_work: will do Jun 21 05:09:39 is tmo dead? Jun 21 05:09:46 or down Jun 21 05:10:05 i can connect to maemo.org but not tmo Jun 21 05:10:14 oh wait there it goes it was just slow Jun 21 05:10:31 if I wait 2-3 yers will we get a real kb? :( Jun 21 05:12:24 With WP7! Jun 21 05:12:26 (or 8) Jun 21 05:13:07 :( Jun 21 05:13:34 thnx konttori_work! Jun 21 05:13:44 umm Jun 21 05:15:25 yipee, http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/Introduction.html is up !!! Jun 21 05:16:32 http://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/db230178-aa63-4c73-ba7f-20930da13cad/Nokia_N950_OneClickFlashers.html Jun 21 05:16:36 N950 firmware? Jun 21 05:17:05 http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/unstable/beta/api_refs/showdoc.php?pkn=qmafw&wb=daily-docs&url=Li94bWwvZGFpbHktZG9jcy9xbWFmdw%3D%3D Jun 21 05:17:56 Sazpaimon: not in 2 bytes :) Jun 21 05:18:03 wmarone, select one Jun 21 05:18:08 the linux one specifically Jun 21 05:18:11 it downloads as 600MB Jun 21 05:18:18 weird, they need to fix the listing Jun 21 05:18:27 yeah Jun 21 05:18:41 Ouch the news no keyboard on the n9, hard wake up Jun 21 05:18:44 but if it's just a standard FIASCO image we shold see if we can make it work on an N900 Jun 21 05:18:51 or qemu Jun 21 05:19:21 could give it a shot, probably not enough RAM in the N900 to do much of anything Jun 21 05:19:26 considering the target device Jun 21 05:19:28 Linux_OCF_22-6_EMMC_RM680-OEM1-916.bin Jun 21 05:19:50 board support files have been in the kernel for a while now Jun 21 05:19:52 N950 is 512MB ram Jun 21 05:20:00 N9 1GB? Jun 21 05:20:05 N9 has 1GB yeah Jun 21 05:20:17 but N950 i believe has 512MB Jun 21 05:20:32 Sazpaimon: let's wait until it gets spec-announced Jun 21 05:20:33 so N900+swap should suffice Jun 21 05:20:50 Sazpaimon: for stalling the device yeah ;p Jun 21 05:21:24 well yeah Jun 21 05:21:37 but for demoing the UI Jun 21 05:21:54 a qemu image would be okay though Jun 21 05:22:01 Alright, enough tantalizing disappointment for one night. Jun 21 05:22:06 One step forward, two steps back. Jun 21 05:22:16 Story of Nokia's open source endeavors. Jun 21 05:22:16 did they announce a n950 or rumors ? Jun 21 05:22:17 'night Jun 21 05:22:27 Khertan_n900, they soft announced it Jun 21 05:22:29 Khertan_n900, yes, but only as a limited developer device. Jun 21 05:22:33 And by name only Jun 21 05:22:40 250 developers of meego.com get it Jun 21 05:22:46 Still hate you Nokia. Jun 21 05:22:48 and commercial and professional developers get the rest Jun 21 05:23:00 i already signed my company up Jun 21 05:23:04 Commercial and Professional ? Jun 21 05:23:11 only ? Just sucks ! Jun 21 05:23:22 if you develop open source stuff you can sign up through meego.com Jun 21 05:23:26 but that's limited to 250 devices Jun 21 05:23:34 lol Jun 21 05:23:43 if you register as a nokia developer (like I did), you have a better shot Jun 21 05:23:53 how to say take off to the community Jun 21 05:25:03 What they're best at. Jun 21 05:25:20 GAN900 Indeed Jun 21 05:25:43 anyway, I'll be checking my company inbox in the morning Jun 21 05:25:51 hopefully I'll have some good news :) Jun 21 05:26:54 haha, now I recall why I never cared about Nokia Developer: It doesn't allow to log in with Konqueror webbrowser Jun 21 05:30:32 HA HA Jun 21 05:32:27 zomg, who took conversations and put those dumb ass chat bubbles there Jun 21 05:33:19 i thought i saw that looked like a port on the engadget spy shots... though that could be for SIM Jun 21 05:36:53 morning Jun 21 05:37:47 * DocScrutinizer feels like an idiot, every effort to get on launchpad page ends on a page with a link to "register for launchpad" - I *AM* registered, so where is launchpad??? Jun 21 05:38:25 get out of bed on other side try aaagain? Jun 21 05:38:40 pffff Jun 21 05:38:40 So, erm, what's this page on meego.com to register as a developer and try to get a device? Jun 21 05:38:53 launchpad!!! Jun 21 05:44:27 robbiethe1st: https://meego.com/community/device-program/devices/nokia-n9-devkit Jun 21 05:44:34 Thanks! Jun 21 05:45:44 while you're there, I notice you're hosting a flashable rootfs image with backupmenu installed Jun 21 05:46:09 Yea, an old version Jun 21 05:46:14 how about hosting a backup image that people can restore with backupmenu? Jun 21 05:47:03 That negates the purpose - The idea behind that image is that you can flash it, then restore your own backup Jun 21 05:47:22 If you just want to restore a stock image... that's what the fiasco image is for Jun 21 05:47:26 sup Jun 21 05:47:43 But there are people who have broken usb ports that want a fresh install Jun 21 05:47:49 I suddenly realized, that they have released Harmattan Jun 21 05:48:09 Is it still based on deb-packages and scratchbox? Jun 21 05:48:13 so this is one way of doing that Jun 21 05:48:34 Yea, you do have a point there... Jun 21 05:48:41 great Jun 21 05:49:00 1) Is it possible o install it to N900? Jun 21 05:49:06 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/32876324/20110619-2247-rootfs.tar.gz Jun 21 05:49:10 2) Is it possible to access repos? Jun 21 05:49:12 Oh Jun 21 05:49:14 wow Jun 21 05:49:24 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/32876324/20110619-2247-optfs.tar.gz Jun 21 05:49:29 WOW Jun 21 05:49:39 that's a fresh install if you want. Jun 21 05:49:55 Thanks TH Jun 21 05:49:59 that makes things easy Jun 21 05:50:05 yep Jun 21 05:50:25 Are extras available at this time? Jun 21 05:50:42 keks-n: that's maemo5 I posted Jun 21 05:50:52 ehm Jun 21 05:51:00 heh Jun 21 05:51:15 I misunderstood you Jun 21 05:51:17 sorry Jun 21 05:51:22 lol I know :) Jun 21 05:52:58 >>RELEASE NOTES FOR MeeGo Harmattan SDK Beta Jun 21 05:53:07 >>This release includes: Jun 21 05:53:17 >> Maemo SDK installer Jun 21 05:53:21 Suddenly lold Jun 21 05:54:58 Who is the Harmattan's debmaster? Jun 21 05:57:55 so looks like the N9 is out Jun 21 05:58:01 yep Jun 21 05:58:07 and no keyboard Jun 21 05:58:19 Youcan get N950 Jun 21 05:58:32 if you chance Jun 21 05:58:38 >>To aid the speedy development of apps for the Nokia N9 smartphone, Nokia has produced a limited number of developer phones, the Nokia N950 phone. This phone isn't available for purchase and can only be obtained through selected developer programs, such as Nokia Developer LaunchPad. Jun 21 05:58:39 as it not sold Jun 21 05:59:54 BTW, did anyone tried to install Harmathan to N900? Jun 21 06:00:12 >>Developer account registration Jun 21 06:00:13 >> group membership operation already in progress Jun 21 06:00:15 KTHNX Jun 21 06:00:25 this whole website is such a PITA Jun 21 06:01:00 keks-n, and how to be "selected" ? Jun 21 06:01:44 khertan: https://meego.com/community/device-program/devices/nokia-n9-devkit Jun 21 06:02:26 pabs3, this is the community selection :) Jun 21 06:02:30 only 250 device Jun 21 06:02:37 so you need to be lucky Jun 21 06:02:47 khertan: right Jun 21 06:02:54 you need more than "luck" ;) Jun 21 06:03:00 DocScrutinizer: I got the same message as you Jun 21 06:03:32 wmarone, indeed ... no the choice ... is keep n900 and try to help for MeeGo Jun 21 06:03:45 or switch to Android ... and contribute to Python Port Jun 21 06:03:54 s/no/now Jun 21 06:04:12 Yea, sadly Jun 21 06:04:40 The N9... does *not* look that interesting, sadly Jun 21 06:04:44 Khertan, robbiethe1st, what? Jun 21 06:04:55 n9 ... no keyboard useless Jun 21 06:05:12 n950 can't be bought directly Jun 21 06:05:18 http://swipe.nokia.com/ Jun 21 06:05:19 need to be "selected" Jun 21 06:05:31 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/21/apples_openness_problem/ Jun 21 06:05:33 N950's different? Jun 21 06:05:45 robbiethe1st: you found where to apply for that friggin n950? Jun 21 06:05:47 a keyboard from what i heard Jun 21 06:05:53 DocScrutinizer: Uh, no. Jun 21 06:06:08 isn't that plain incredible? Jun 21 06:06:21 Why not just try Jun 21 06:06:33 keks-n, something without keyboard ? Jun 21 06:06:56 I found the flaer, though: http://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/25e9df89-6fbf-4802-a335-ca9695250144/Nokia_N950_OneClickFlasher_Lin.html Jun 21 06:07:08 keks-n, because i was on n800 and i really prefer the n810 and n900 due to keyboard Jun 21 06:07:36 I simply hope the N9's price point is appropriate for its hardware class Jun 21 06:08:02 considering that even Apple will probably be going multicore in a few months Jun 21 06:08:26 hmm no HW kb? :( Jun 21 06:08:48 1GB RAM seems more important than multicore Jun 21 06:09:23 indeed. Jun 21 06:09:33 GonzoTheGreat: yes, but 1GB of RAM does not command a high price Jun 21 06:10:13 I'd argue that the *most* important thing is a better filesystem. The N900's OptFS gets corrupted quite frequently, and when it does, performance drops like a rock Jun 21 06:10:13 krayon and rm_you, I'm late, but I'm right with you in terms of the n900, resistive screens, etc - maybe a community of like minded people could help promote the next sensical product Jun 21 06:10:36 robbiethe1st: honestly I've never had the /opt filesystem get corrupted Jun 21 06:10:45 and I would not expect such from ext3 Jun 21 06:11:01 internetishard: Not enough of us :/ Too many people who like stuff like Apple's. Jun 21 06:11:16 I hadn't either until a few weeks back; my n900 had been running for several weeks straight, and things got slow. I rebooted, and it took like 5 minutes to boot. Jun 21 06:11:39 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSZssHGR-Qg Jun 21 06:11:52 DocScrutinizer, https://meego.com/community/device-program Jun 21 06:11:54 Booted into backupmenu, ran fsck, and loads of FS errors. I ended up having to fix it on my desktop by completely reformatting it, reloading a backed up OptFS image. Jun 21 06:12:04 Boots in 1min now, way better performance Jun 21 06:12:06 robbiethe1st: overclocked? Jun 21 06:12:08 mece: uhuh, thanks Jun 21 06:12:10 will try Jun 21 06:12:40 internetishard: yeah i feel like the actual "hardcore community" that actually knows or cares about these things is very small T_T but i'd totally be there Jun 21 06:12:54 only 250 of them :/ Jun 21 06:13:25 wmarone: Well, yea, and if there was *any* instability, I'd consider that the problem. But there isn't, and non-OC'd devices seem to have the problem as well. Jun 21 06:13:45 i'm trying to think of a reason that N950 was so broken they can only give it out as dev platform :/ Jun 21 06:13:48 guess I'm just the luckiest N900 owner ever Jun 21 06:14:07 flailingmonkey, it could be a Windows Phone killer Jun 21 06:14:09 mece: this links to http://developer.nokia.com/swipe, this is basically where I'm wandering around for like one hour now Jun 21 06:14:09 Either that, or you rebooted once in a while(it runs fsck when it boots) Jun 21 06:14:17 only issue I ever had was the 32wd_to reboot bug back after the device came out Jun 21 06:14:40 wmarone, only issue i ve is with trackerd eating all ram and cpu Jun 21 06:15:06 but having 12Go of 21mpx pictures on device probably didn't help Jun 21 06:15:15 Funny thing was that until this glitch happened, it ran great for me too. Then, at that point things basically became sluggish, trackerd went crazy, some few apps wouldn't open etc. Jun 21 06:15:30 one of the reasens gives was that the N9 hasnt passed CE yet so they were giving out n950's insteaaad for dev Jun 21 06:15:52 krayon: we need the uber geeks to have creative control, and then a larger majority of the masses will line up behind us Jun 21 06:16:00 reaasons given * but hee didnt know if it was the real reason Jun 21 06:16:10 especially once they see us doing cool shit with their phones that they've only seen in science fiction movies Jun 21 06:16:10 i've been thinking about what sort of work would qualify for one of those N950 units :/ Jun 21 06:16:29 I had my n900 on a stand last year in school with a bluetooth keyboard and people freaked the fuck out Jun 21 06:16:44 mece: following this text adventure takes me to http://www.developer.nokia.com/Developer_Programs/Launchpad.xhtml where I'm asked to apply for launchpad membership which I did. This ended in a deadend loop like Jun 21 06:16:48 [2011-06-21 07:58:12] >>Developer account registration Jun 21 06:16:49 [2011-06-21 07:58:12] >> group membership operation already in progress Jun 21 06:16:54 though Jun 21 06:16:54 internetishard: lol yeah my n800 was like that Jun 21 06:16:57 internetishard: without improving the development tools, I can hardly see anyone having the patience Jun 21 06:17:16 mece: and *WHERE* do I apply for a N950 now? Jun 21 06:17:18 internetishard: also, cool things come with seemingly useless sensors and capacitive screens Jun 21 06:17:41 i give up Jun 21 06:17:49 DocScrutinizer, if i understand to apply to n9 will give you n950, isn't it ? Jun 21 06:18:30 Choom: the patience for what? Jun 21 06:18:30 I apply for a N9-devkit which is the only thing you can apply for it seems Jun 21 06:18:39 yep Jun 21 06:18:39 it ended like I told above Jun 21 06:18:44 I don't get the cool things comment Choom Jun 21 06:18:47 dev kit is for me n950 :) Jun 21 06:18:55 internetishard: when I bought my N900 I had development in mind Jun 21 06:19:03 Now the real question is : Does QWidget is Themed or Not ? Jun 21 06:19:04 internetishard: I'm not so sure. I had a great conversation with an Apple fan recently. He explained how he LOVES that Apple tell him what he can and can't do and how. He said that he trusts in (the Church of) Jobbs and wouldn't swap it for anything. It was a major flaw in my thinking to assume that everyone wanted to be able to do what THEY wanted to do. That everyone wanted to make their own decisions. Jun 21 06:19:12 internetishard: but that quickly worn off as soon as I installed the sandbox thing Jun 21 06:19:18 never looked at it again Jun 21 06:19:19 yeah i just want to buy an n950 i don't want an n9... maybe i can ebay if i don't get dev programmed in Jun 21 06:19:21 scratchbox, that is Jun 21 06:19:42 will there be a n950? Jun 21 06:19:52 krayon, sure basically that makes it easier for him and lots of other people - I agree with him Jun 21 06:20:04 I don't completely understand the hypothetical line between power users and the rest Jun 21 06:20:18 rm_you, same here ... didn't want this n9 ... want a n950 Jun 21 06:20:26 then the packaging requirements, the amount of work required to publish simple things, the inavailability of documentation for things such as pulseaudio that should be very well documented, etc. contribute a lot to turning me off Jun 21 06:20:34 simple: power-users are a niche to be ignored and attacked by legions of useful idiots Jun 21 06:20:59 Choom: oh you tried to do maemo5 development as well? Jun 21 06:21:01 Maybe sometimes people want to be power users, and sometimes they want pure productivity - but there should at least be a complete poweruser phone out there. If we tie up the various subsets of powerusers, then there would definitely be enough to warrant R&D for the next good n900 replacement Jun 21 06:21:03 internetishard: I think that's it. A "power user" says "how am I going to get the system to do what I want in the way I want" whereas the majority say "tell me how to do what I want and if it can't be done, fine, and if it can but requires me to put my hand in a blender, that's fine too, just PLEASE tell me what to do". Jun 21 06:21:17 wmarone: just third party applications Jun 21 06:21:34 Choom: exactly Jun 21 06:21:34 Dev is easier than on iPhone or Android SDK ! You can even dev onboard on an n900 ! Jun 21 06:21:41 Just choose the right language Jun 21 06:21:44 khertan: it's easier -now- Jun 21 06:21:56 c should be the right language Jun 21 06:21:58 wmarone, it s easier since the NOkia n800 Jun 21 06:22:04 at least I was expecting it to be Jun 21 06:22:06 krayon: indeed, they learn about cool new shit because they just learned that it exists (so they'll do it). We have ideas, and we want to test them - in essence, power users are scientists. Jun 21 06:22:09 krayon: power users can give the normal users more to do :) Jun 21 06:22:13 Choom, lol ... Jun 21 06:22:26 khertan: scratchbox was terrible, end to end. I'm still not sure about madde. Jun 21 06:22:28 Choom, if you like losing time managing ram ... why not Jun 21 06:22:46 wmarone, i didn't use nor scratchbox, nor madde Jun 21 06:23:03 For example, I like how I've integrated stuff my multi terabyte server via 3g, wifi, whatever into my n900 system. Stuff that I wanted to do before I knew it was possible Jun 21 06:23:05 Maemo is the best mobile python plateform Jun 21 06:23:48 khertan: the problem with python is that some of its best uses, like mediabox, are terribly slow Jun 21 06:24:07 wmarone, it s slow because not well coded Jun 21 06:24:43 wmarone, in a gui apps, most used time is waiting user action in the main loop Jun 21 06:24:52 well aware of that Jun 21 06:25:12 high level languages are good for scripting, frontend, UI, prototyping, and duct taping Jun 21 06:25:21 beyond that I default to C and C++ Jun 21 06:25:23 wmarone, and most computed time is used in the gui drawing, which could be qt or gtk ... which are in c or c++ Jun 21 06:25:39 Choom, yeah yeah ... Jun 21 06:26:04 Choom, frontend, ui, prototyping .... there is nothing more :) Jun 21 06:26:04 n900 v2 should be the next one. with fixes and everything open! Jun 21 06:26:07 ;> Jun 21 06:26:16 khertan: of course there is, the core Jun 21 06:26:19 internetishard, an n900 with more ram Jun 21 06:26:36 khertan: but even with the ability to use python, it is not the target language of most developers. nor should it be the only option. The problem is that the default option of C was a painful, slow process. Jun 21 06:26:38 Choom, in a mobile app ? which core you display data ;) Jun 21 06:26:47 fixed gps, open OS dev, compass, etc Jun 21 06:26:56 wmarone, some are coding in c directly ondevice Jun 21 06:27:01 sure Jun 21 06:27:04 I'd be happy with a RAM slot slapped on the side that I have to wrap in static sensitive tape and bubble wrap to protect. Jun 21 06:27:05 wmarone, lcuk for example :) Jun 21 06:27:07 but that doesn't lend yourself to easy redistribution Jun 21 06:27:27 Well, that an a CPU upgrade. Perhaps one of those beefy CPU fans hanging out. Jun 21 06:27:28 why you can package them too :) Jun 21 06:27:30 khertan: voice recognition, for example Jun 21 06:27:30 let alone the space consumption on device Jun 21 06:27:37 khertan: games, as another example Jun 21 06:27:46 packaging is another problem, I do hope that is somewhat automated in the new system... Jun 21 06:27:46 Choom, ok ... here ... clearly ... you made a python extension in c :) Jun 21 06:28:06 Does the n900 really feel like a flop to nokia? Jun 21 06:28:32 khertan: touch-sensitive applications that do not rely on any of the provided widgets but for which you still wish to provide a smooth experience Jun 21 06:28:33 I mean, if it doesn't, then why don't they just upgrade the hardware and leave its essence? Jun 21 06:28:51 khertan: libraries Jun 21 06:28:57 internetishard: Probably to their ex-MS head guy, yeah. That and it was dead before it was alive. Jun 21 06:29:05 khertan: telepathy modules Jun 21 06:29:18 In Australia, I was unable to get one. Had to buy off eBay. They came out VERY VERY late here. Jun 21 06:29:20 whose fault do they think that was? Jun 21 06:29:21 the list goes on and on Jun 21 06:29:22 the dead part Jun 21 06:29:26 Choom, touch sensitive app can be done in python, i ve rewrite a part of kinetic scrolling in python ;) Jun 21 06:29:39 And they were only available for hardly any time as a result ... maybe a few months. Jun 21 06:29:45 Choom, and custom qwidget are faster in python than qml ... :) Jun 21 06:30:00 Choom, most library can be write in python Jun 21 06:30:02 khertan: yes, but the rendering can not -- read the part where I said "without using any of the provided widgets" Jun 21 06:30:19 khertan: no they can not, because then you lose portability Jun 21 06:30:25 Choom, to be honest i prefer a python lib than a badly written c one that leak everywhere Jun 21 06:30:56 Choom, ? lost portability ? why ? Jun 21 06:31:24 khertan: you can bind C stuff to python, but it doesn't make sense to do it the other way around Jun 21 06:31:54 Choom, yep... but why writing thing in c ... if this run well in python Jun 21 06:32:04 c is usefull only when speed is required Jun 21 06:32:14 (or to avoid eating too much battery) Jun 21 06:32:15 it's a bit like writing C++ libraries that don't export C symbols, you can still call the C++ code if you make assumptions about the implementation, but that doesn't make any sense Jun 21 06:32:42 Choom, yep Jun 21 06:32:48 khertan: you can not make assumptions about performance requirements while writing a library Jun 21 06:33:08 Choom, i was talking for apps ... not lib Jun 21 06:33:09 because the applications that are going to use it are abstract Jun 21 06:33:09 khertan: C is usefull always Jun 21 06:33:15 khertan: and it's faster to write in C Jun 21 06:33:20 jacekowski, lol Jun 21 06:33:46 it s faster to execute you yep ... not to write :) Jun 21 06:33:53 s/you/ Jun 21 06:33:59 then you are bad C programmer Jun 21 06:34:07 lol Jun 21 06:34:24 depends on what you're writing Jun 21 06:34:32 exactly Jun 21 06:34:54 in some cases the abstraction forces you to bend over backwards in order to achieve things that the ability to use pointers would simplify a lot Jun 21 06:35:25 take shared memory and IPC, for example Jun 21 06:35:29 in some case python library will help you a lot to write thing really faster Jun 21 06:35:53 very wasy to work with in C; I don't even wanna think about the nightmare of attmepting to tackle it with a higher level language Jun 21 06:36:48 try to write a app that sync with ms online office in c ... will be faster to write it in C# dotnet as it s only 100 lines to writes as many libs will help you Jun 21 06:37:25 Ehm Jun 21 06:37:25 sure, but that's not core functionality Jun 21 06:37:31 Choom : http://nikitathespider.com/python/shm/ Jun 21 06:37:34 MS Office provides COM-interface Jun 21 06:38:04 ms office ... i was talking about their online office Jun 21 06:38:05 :) Jun 21 06:38:11 Hm Jun 21 06:38:36 khertan: I'm not claiming it can't be done, I'm claiming that you have to work harder to achieve the same Jun 21 06:38:45 on top of losing performance Jun 21 06:39:05 Choom, harder ... i didn't think ... losing performance ... sure it ll loose Jun 21 06:39:18 khertan: those are low level concepts Jun 21 06:39:29 yep... and should be writen in c Jun 21 06:39:31 so yes, you have to work harder in order to bend the abstract logic Jun 21 06:39:40 using python for this is unappropriate Jun 21 06:39:50 in essence, that's one case where the abstraction is getting in the way Jun 21 06:39:53 Who thinks about the client side perfomance when working with online service? Jun 21 06:40:19 keks-n: we're talking about native mobile apps Jun 21 06:40:23 You will lost about 15-30% of the perfomance of your code Jun 21 06:40:35 But it isn't the bottleneck Jun 21 06:40:47 s/lost/lose/ Jun 21 06:40:53 Choom, in core ... but mobile app haven't really a core ... it s mostly a ui displaying data Jun 21 06:41:09 khertan: you can't really tell what the bottleneck is in the case of libraries Jun 21 06:41:19 err Jun 21 06:41:21 was for keks-n Jun 21 06:41:25 :) Jun 21 06:41:41 khertan: I've already given you examples of apps with C requirements Jun 21 06:41:48 you don't do audio processing in python Jun 21 06:41:48 Choom, yep Jun 21 06:41:54 you don't do video processing in python Jun 21 06:42:01 you don't write telepathy modules in python Jun 21 06:42:02 You can do it in C#, lol Jun 21 06:42:08 Choom, i do it ... but i use a c lib for audio processing :) Jun 21 06:42:12 It has native pointers support Jun 21 06:42:19 Choom, so it s not python really :) Jun 21 06:42:20 you don't write mobile games in python (unless they are really simple) Jun 21 06:43:04 you should see more python than a glue to call already existing libs ... ;) Jun 21 06:43:13 * keks-n wrote a pair of games for WinMobile in C# and got a good FPS even without video acceleration Jun 21 06:43:22 don't need to reinvent the wheel :) Jun 21 06:43:32 Anyway, the graphics core library was written in C Jun 21 06:43:41 as I said earlier, high level languages are appropriate for scripting, frontend, prototyping, and duct taping Jun 21 06:43:44 keks-n, because most of time is passed in the graphic libs which are in c Jun 21 06:43:51 yep Jun 21 06:44:02 ... hum ... this will not give us a keyboard to n900 Jun 21 06:44:04 ... hum ... this will not give us a keyboard to n9 Jun 21 06:44:16 :) Jun 21 06:44:22 so long as it makes them thinner, I don't really mind Jun 21 06:44:22 Languages like python and c# are perfect for logic part of the application Jun 21 06:44:38 C is perfect for media processing Jun 21 06:44:39 my n900 is a brick Jun 21 06:45:00 my brick is an n900 Jun 21 06:45:03 * MrPPS plays ominous music Jun 21 06:45:17 Just combine them and you will get the perfomance boots both in run-time and "write-time" Jun 21 06:45:34 It's quite simple to interact with C code Jun 21 06:46:32 C# has a lot of useful tools to do it Jun 21 06:47:19 Nokia really is falling low. Jun 21 06:47:28 ""Unlike some competitor products you don't need to hold it a special way to make reliable phone calls," Ahtisaari said. The phone will come in black, cyan and magenta." Jun 21 06:47:45 crashanddie, hehe Jun 21 06:47:51 when you have to resort to slander and cheap shots at competitors... Jun 21 06:47:54 it does look nice though Jun 21 06:48:10 Nokia N9-00 Jun 21 06:48:10 MeeGO 1.2 Harmattan Jun 21 06:48:50 I might get it on contract from the cellco once they have it Jun 21 06:49:08 It s Maemo, It s MeeGo, No it ven't keyboard ... it s a Flop Jun 21 06:49:09 :) Jun 21 06:49:19 no it's Elop ;) Jun 21 06:49:40 ;) Jun 21 06:50:32 OpenGL ES 1.1 Jun 21 06:50:32 OpenGL ES 2.0 Jun 21 06:50:45 2 microphone ? Jun 21 06:50:47 Compass (Magnetometer Sensor) Jun 21 06:51:03 doesn't the N900 already have 2 microphones? Jun 21 06:51:31 http://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/3744886f-69c1-4544-8ad3-72b352b4a832/Nokia_N950_OneClickFlashers_Release_Notes.html <<< ? Jun 21 06:51:43 Choom, ? really ? where is the second one ? Jun 21 06:52:26 I don't even know where the first one is Jun 21 06:52:31 but doesn't it record in stereo? Jun 21 06:52:46 Yo it's DJ Dan, I'm running a Nokia with Harmattan, I may sound like a wild or wise man, but that's just from the inspiration of my beer can. The new N9, running Harmattan, will be about as useful as a frying pan; built entirely in Kazakhstan, only a few idiots will buy it in Japan. Don't think Elop forgot the employee stock ownership plan, he's just an neanderthal man (with a plan), he's just the a con artist from the repub Jun 21 06:52:46 lic of Sudan, who came, conquered, and Nokia overran. Jun 21 06:53:54 I see people blame nokia for targeting the mass market Jun 21 06:53:55 Choom, you don't need two microphones to record in stereo Jun 21 06:54:02 and people blame them for not targeting the mass market Jun 21 06:54:08 you can't have it both ways Jun 21 06:54:22 crashanddie: oh, wow, how does that work? Jun 21 06:54:34 Duplicate mic input on both channels? Jun 21 06:54:53 It's *very* common in the telco industry. Jun 21 06:54:55 that's not stereo Jun 21 06:55:29 actually, it is. Jun 21 06:55:54 it's exactly the same technique used by the Nokia N9 for their Dolby Headphones crap Jun 21 06:56:01 look up pan-pot stereo. Jun 21 06:56:23 how can you tell the direction sound is coming in? Jun 21 06:56:39 you add a random modulation to the amplitude. Jun 21 06:56:54 * N950 is physically larger and is made out of aluminum, whereas N9 has Jun 21 06:56:54 a polycarbonate unibody Jun 21 06:57:03 wow Jun 21 06:57:04 * N950 has 1320mAh battery, the N9 has 1450mAh battery Jun 21 06:57:12 crashanddie: that means nothing to me :P Jun 21 06:57:20 * N950 supports Bluetooth version 2.1+EDR, whereas N9 supports Jun 21 06:57:21 version 4.0 Jun 21 06:57:23 explain it in layman's terms Jun 21 06:57:29 Choom, it gives a fake reverberation, which tricks your brain into thinking it's stereophonic Jun 21 06:57:31 N950 has a 4” TFT LCD display whereas N9 has 3.9” AMOLED display. Jun 21 06:57:31 Display resolution is same on both devices (854x480). Due to the use Jun 21 06:57:31 of different display technologies, developers should avoid one pixel Jun 21 06:57:31 with fonts and graphical objects with lines one pixel wide. Also avoid Jun 21 06:57:31 the extensive use of bright colors, especially white, when developing Jun 21 06:57:31 for OLED displays as this increases the power consumption (typical Jun 21 06:57:33 for OLED displays). Jun 21 06:57:54 * N950 has a different physical camera module than N9. Both camera Jun 21 06:57:54 modules have very similar image quality (Carl Zeiss branding in N9) Jun 21 06:57:54 and both modules support 8Mpix image mode. Jun 21 06:58:12 n950 : * Over-the-Air updates may not be available for the next software version. Jun 21 06:58:13 crashanddie: that's not what I was referring to though, I was referring to being able to record where sounds come from, but I guess the N900 can't do that Jun 21 06:58:20 it can't. Jun 21 06:58:51 Choom, basically, you have track 0 at amplitude 80dB naturally, you record it once, with a dB gain of whatever depending on your microphone. You duplicate it, and run an algorithm on it that will either overpass or lower the gain of resulting track 1 Jun 21 06:59:12 So effectively, one track is slightly lower in volume than the other one (not technically correct, but you wanted layman's terms) Jun 21 06:59:32 crashanddie: yeah, I understand that Jun 21 07:00:04 was thinking they were using some kind of black magic to gain perception of sound direction with a single microphone Jun 21 07:00:13 Choom, most pop in recent years isn't stereo. Jun 21 07:00:30 not stereophonic, anyway Jun 21 07:01:21 crashanddie, or good Jun 21 07:01:52 plus, recording stereo is a lot trickier than it might sound (hardy har har) Jun 21 07:02:26 I was thinking of something in the lines of how your brain can tell the difference between sounds coming from ahead or behind without an extra pair of ears Jun 21 07:02:55 well, that's the time-of-arrival stereography combined with intensity stereography Jun 21 07:02:59 (or something along those lines) Jun 21 07:03:15 khertan: Nothing about NFC differences? Jun 21 07:03:37 Jaffa, * N950 does not have support for NFC Jun 21 07:03:38 :) Jun 21 07:03:44 it s clear :) Jun 21 07:03:53 Ah, OK Jun 21 07:04:00 Thopught so Jun 21 07:04:04 * Certain types of use may drain the battery faster than normal. Jun 21 07:04:13 * Echo may be heard during some voice calls. This can be eliminated Jun 21 07:04:14 by turning speakerphone on and off during the call. Jun 21 07:04:23 * The device may not always see all available WLAN’s (refresh) Jun 21 07:04:29 ^ it s about n950 Jun 21 07:04:46 hi Jun 21 07:04:47 Choom, in order to do proper toa stereography you need hardware that is capable of processing time differences of less than a millisec when the mics are less than 30cm apart Jun 21 07:05:01 * N9 has slightly more sensitive magnetometer and ALS Jun 21 07:05:03 where is this guy that made myth frontend work on the N900? Jun 21 07:05:18 khertan: hi there Jun 21 07:05:24 hi cloudyLights Jun 21 07:05:31 Right Jun 21 07:05:33 Could you tell I've been in the telco industry and have been reading up on sound recording? :P Jun 21 07:05:42 Further, as N950, including its device software, is not a commercial Jun 21 07:05:42 device, the quality and/feature set of N950 is of beta quality and comes Jun 21 07:05:42 without any warranty or support whatsoever. Jun 21 07:05:42 Finally, when we in these release notes make statements as to the features Jun 21 07:05:42 of N9 (e.g. describing differences between N950 and N9), it is not a Jun 21 07:05:43 representation that the commercial version of N9 will actually include Jun 21 07:05:45 such features. Jun 21 07:06:25 DocScrutinizer, Nokia N9 Devkit Jun 21 07:06:25 To aid the speedy development of apps for the Nokia N9 smartphone, Nokia has produced a limited number of developer phones, the Nokia N950 phone. This phone isn't available for purchase and can only be obtained through selected developer programs, such as Nokia Developer LaunchPad. Jun 21 07:06:42 DocScrutinizer, so n9 devkit is the n950 Jun 21 07:06:57 sweet Jun 21 07:11:19 and the n950 is the rm680 device Jun 21 07:11:41 are you in singapoore now? Jun 21 07:12:08 so basically if you're a user you can't get a N950 at all... Jun 21 07:12:12 how may I become a Nokia Developer ? Jun 21 07:12:34 no problem, I need the N950 for work Jun 21 07:12:39 ruskie, meego dev program is for open source developers. Jun 21 07:12:51 cloudyLights, companies can probly get it... Jun 21 07:13:06 mece, yet I don't really develope stuff Jun 21 07:13:54 * RST38h moos Jun 21 07:14:22 * crashanddie moos back at RST38h Jun 21 07:14:51 cloudyLights, no i m not in singapoore Jun 21 07:15:03 I really wish meego.com wouldn't redirect to https Jun 21 07:15:14 well, I think my boss may consider getting us the N950 Jun 21 07:15:24 let me wait untill someone here gets it Jun 21 07:16:49 ruskie, why? Jun 21 07:18:41 khertan: can you share the experience of having this device , when you have it? Jun 21 07:18:53 khertan: can you share the experience of having this device , when you have it? Jun 21 07:18:54 crashanddie, because of this: SSL handshake failed: A TLS fatal alert has been received. Jun 21 07:19:48 cloudyLights, yep ... but i doubt i ll get it one day :) Jun 21 07:30:59 bleh, nowhere to buy n950, n9 is useless without a kbd :| Jun 21 07:35:00 n950 only for developers Jun 21 07:35:25 what? Jun 21 07:35:46 I haven't tried, but you can do it this way if you have all the pieces: terminal app (it's open source and maintained) and wget (not sure if it comes with Busybox out of the idem). I'm installing packages directly from the browser, by clicking .deb links. Very convenient. This is not the behavior by default but you can enable it through the settings UI. Jun 21 07:35:48 yeah Jun 21 07:35:53 ^qgil Jun 21 07:36:01 YOU HOU ! DEBIAN PACKAGING Jun 21 07:36:24 jaska, haj yep n950 only for "selected" dev Jun 21 07:36:42 and i agree ... n9 sucks without kbd Jun 21 07:37:19 The default approach is to have a Nokia proprietary UX layer including the applications. Jun 21 07:37:22 still closed Jun 21 07:38:25 khertan: not that it matters.. N900 is my last Nokia device. (because of their silly customer service) Jun 21 07:38:48 i understand though. you have to make different design choices to emphasize use of keyboard, portrait vs. landscape Jun 21 07:39:05 flailingmonkey, and user choice ? Jun 21 07:39:14 maybe some didn't care about portrait use Jun 21 07:39:26 khertan: it doesn't really make any sense to make the N950 only for developers... Jun 21 07:39:32 why every phone should look like iphone ? Jun 21 07:39:47 still there is design choices of which should be emphasized Jun 21 07:39:49 haj, yep... it s not make any sense to make windows phone Jun 21 07:40:00 haj, there is probably design problem with it Jun 21 07:40:22 haj: making it only for devs means they don't have to do the productization work Jun 21 07:40:24 haj, as some component is different in the n9, i think there is someproblem Jun 21 07:41:03 haj: and indications have shown the slate/plank form has carried the most consistent _consumer_ success Jun 21 07:41:47 kbdless slate is about as useful as a coaster or mousepad to me :) Jun 21 07:42:00 current phone hw landscape is looking bad :( Jun 21 07:42:21 jaska, looking bad ? what did you mean ? Jun 21 07:42:44 khertan: there are no suitable replacements for n900 in sight Jun 21 07:42:56 hw-wise Jun 21 07:43:18 jaska, hw-wise ... some htc ... Jun 21 07:43:18 milestone 3 is looking decent Jun 21 07:43:28 but software is android Jun 21 07:43:30 Presumably they'll be fixing the hinge and releasing the n950 eventually. Jun 21 07:43:32 well, I still can't publish my small app Jun 21 07:43:54 is motorola getting rid of their awful lockdown junk yet? Jun 21 07:43:57 one problem is that when you change profiles using dbus in the N900 the volume is muted Jun 21 07:44:02 plus android is sorta awful as an os Jun 21 07:44:13 so I use mafw to save and restore the volume Jun 21 07:44:39 but, python-mafw is in extras-devel so Jun 21 07:44:47 If they're making the N950 anyway, why not offer pre-orders or something :( Jun 21 07:45:07 how to make it easy for users to install the dep if it is in extras-devel? Jun 21 07:45:31 jrayhawk: no way, by that time the hardware spec for n950 will be ancient compared to competitors Jun 21 07:45:34 krayon, they're not making them. Jun 21 07:46:07 krayon, they are already made. Jun 21 07:46:29 True, they COULD have though, I mean. Jun 21 07:46:33 >>how to make it easy for users to install the dep if it is in extras-devel? Jun 21 07:46:43 move it to extras-testing, lol Jun 21 07:47:11 right Jun 21 07:47:22 I sitll need to see it installs ok Jun 21 07:47:26 Actually deps are moved automatically if something in extras-testing depends on them Jun 21 07:47:40 so I tried instlling scratchbox Jun 21 07:47:58 Use original rootfs from firmware Jun 21 07:48:24 If you want to see, how it installs Jun 21 07:48:33 but I can't get X up in scratchbox Jun 21 07:48:49 this is because I can't switch to i386 target Jun 21 07:48:50 You need X for installation? Jun 21 07:48:56 lol Jun 21 07:49:01 and so I seek someone to try installing these 4 files Jun 21 07:49:15 I need X to verify my app works after installing Jun 21 07:49:24 Extract rootfs somewhere in your /home on the device Jun 21 07:49:36 mount proc, sys and dev Jun 21 07:49:38 chroot Jun 21 07:49:45 export DISPLAY=:0 Jun 21 07:50:00 And you will have a clean system Jun 21 07:51:02 you mean I should do that? this seems odd Jun 21 07:51:11 but this may be a solution Jun 21 07:51:23 I mean it is hard to find N900 users near me Jun 21 07:55:58 ouch n9 battery can't be removed Jun 21 07:56:04 clearly not a device for me Jun 21 07:56:34 ditto unless it's about 4 times more power efficient than the N900 :/ Jun 21 07:56:35 can someone pls look at this: http://dpaste.com/556873/ Jun 21 07:56:58 keks-n: any idea what could be wrong with my scratchbox? Jun 21 07:57:21 Are you installing it on 64-bit system? Jun 21 07:57:31 yes Jun 21 07:57:46 lol Jun 21 07:58:07 There are some problems with running it on 64-bit Jun 21 07:58:24 Try to install it in a virtual machine or something like that Jun 21 07:58:37 ah ok Jun 21 07:59:04 I've installed it on a Xen-based VM on my server Jun 21 07:59:17 And use this system for compilation Jun 21 07:59:42 emm ok , I need to look in to it then... Jun 21 08:24:41 khertan: write python, feed python code to cython, ???, profit! Jun 21 08:25:12 or maybe just write the inner loops in real cython for extra speed there Jun 21 08:25:45 kerio, i didn't need extras speed Jun 21 08:26:05 my apps works well in py Jun 21 08:26:06 khertan, krayon - but.. but... it's so beautiful! Nevermind no removeable battery! Jun 21 08:26:41 Termana, lol ... if it drain battery as fast as my n900 ... ah ... yes it ll drain less ... there is no keyboard Jun 21 08:27:06 khertan: yeah but you can tell that to the people who claim python is slow Jun 21 08:27:12 :) Jun 21 08:27:28 kerio, no ... people saying python is slow need to understand how to code Jun 21 08:27:56 people saying python is slow need to understand the distinction between a language and its implementations Jun 21 08:28:07 but yeah, "how to code" is a close second :) Jun 21 08:28:12 gui app pass most of time doing ui in the gui framework (qt so in c++), and waiting user action Jun 21 08:28:33 so most of time is passed in c++ lib ... not in python interpreter Jun 21 08:28:34 :) Jun 21 08:28:46 people saying python is slow need to understand the distinction between a language and its implementations <<< also Jun 21 08:29:09 but understand how things works is number 1 ... and i call that : "how to code" Jun 21 08:29:11 and cpython is incredibly fast for a VM Jun 21 08:29:12 not there are many implementations of python Jun 21 08:29:29 Choom: pypy takes an ungodly amount of ram but it's balls fast Jun 21 08:29:32 Choom, 3 or 4 Jun 21 08:29:44 and i really mean balls Jun 21 08:30:22 and it's written in python itself, so that's awesome Jun 21 08:30:24 not *that* there are Jun 21 08:51:40 :( my n900 died Jun 21 08:52:37 :( Jun 21 08:52:40 -_- Jun 21 08:52:44 Nice timing Jun 21 08:52:58 Does anyone know of a cheap or free DNS host (other than DynDNS and ZoneEdit)? Jun 21 08:53:00 PolarFox, not really n9 isn't yet available Jun 21 08:53:01 Conspiracy 1-0-1 Jun 21 08:53:16 khertan: True.. :D Jun 21 08:53:24 but nice time to bought an n900 at a cheap price Jun 21 08:53:27 it survived multiple motorcycle accidents to be taken out by a little water Jun 21 08:53:40 o_O Jun 21 08:53:45 Multiple? :O Jun 21 08:53:59 Corex A8 3630 1Ghz ...it s a rumor or is it a fact about the n9 cpu ? Jun 21 08:54:28 Ehm... They told that it will have 2-core CPU Jun 21 08:54:52 khertan: that seems to the CPU Jun 21 08:56:42 khertan: fact Jun 21 08:57:10 i ask because didn't see it on Nokia PoorDev Site Jun 21 08:58:08 hi all, I installed the CSSU, everything works great but I've ~40 out-of-dated packages, the application manager doesn't show them as Out-of-Date, should I run apt-get upgrade manually? Jun 21 08:58:30 Application manager is a crap Jun 21 08:58:33 Use apt-get Jun 21 08:58:43 Or even aptitude Jun 21 08:58:43 ok thanks! Jun 21 08:58:55 It's better to use aptitude Jun 21 08:59:08 ok Jun 21 08:59:17 but do not do dist-upgrade Jun 21 08:59:27 will remove many essential package Jun 21 08:59:28 It's resolves dependencies like a charm Jun 21 08:59:49 soltys, what's new Jun 21 08:59:51 ok, can I disable the application manager completely then? Jun 21 08:59:56 keks-n, hum ... seems i m feel his charm Jun 21 09:00:19 soltys: sorry, damn autocomplete. Jun 21 09:00:31 soltys, what's new and evil? Jun 21 09:01:03 bash`: you still need it for installing something from browser Jun 21 09:01:12 With that "Big green button" Jun 21 09:01:23 * javispedro curses autocompletion algorithms for having gained self consciousness Jun 21 09:01:31 keks-n: neither the "auto-update"? Jun 21 09:01:44 I mean, when I connect to a network it starts to update the repositories list Jun 21 09:01:54 yep Jun 21 09:02:01 but I've disabled it Jun 21 09:02:02 can I disable that? Jun 21 09:02:09 It eats my GPRS traffic Jun 21 09:02:13 yep Jun 21 09:02:19 khertan: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/Device_specifications/N9-00/ Jun 21 09:02:25 I've just moved some executables Jun 21 09:02:33 apt-worker, for example Jun 21 09:03:48 Sicelo, thx ... seems they update it between now and my first read Jun 21 09:04:25 Micro SIM Jun 21 09:04:26 ouch Jun 21 09:05:31 only 250 n9devkit (aka "n950")?? god, feels bad to request one. Jun 21 09:06:10 yw Jun 21 09:07:12 javispedro: indeed Jun 21 09:09:28 keks-n: I doubt your advice and notion regardin HAM been correct. AFAIK CSSU relies on HAM for some things Jun 21 09:09:54 and it's known some packages break when installing then by any other means than HAM Jun 21 09:11:16 I think, that any package should install normally via dpkg Jun 21 09:11:28 In other case it should be removed from repo Jun 21 09:12:01 is that 1GB ram on the n9 marketing ram or real ram? :) Jun 21 09:12:16 n900 had 1GB marketing ram too :P Jun 21 09:12:29 n9devkit has 512m Jun 21 09:12:33 keks-n: hah Jun 21 09:13:25 cehteh: tey seem to use qtm etc, so probably it's real RAM Jun 21 09:13:42 I would put 250$ for a N950 Jun 21 09:13:55 keyboard looks better then the n900 Jun 21 09:14:56 why dont they market the n950 .. duh Jun 21 09:15:23 Maby because they found some glaring flaws in it? Jun 21 09:15:26 I would sell my soul for a N950 #JustSaying Jun 21 09:15:40 well finally a compass .. but lack of resistive touchscreen and keybaord prolly pisses a lot people Jun 21 09:15:50 Or that they couldn't manufacture it cheaply enough; maby they need to wait for a few months to get it out Jun 21 09:16:38 n9-00 does not have flash ? Jun 21 09:17:05 Which OS is Nokia N9 running? Jun 21 09:17:43 reenignEesreveR: MeeGo 1.2 Jun 21 09:17:52 right Jun 21 09:18:22 I still don't understand how Moblin + Maemo = MeeGo, none of them have a G in the name Jun 21 09:20:59 you need to take the b and stick an l into the topmost joint. it detaches the joint, making the bottom curve of G. then the topmost part of the l is curved to the right, completing the top curve in G Jun 21 09:28:26 konttori said they can't get CE cert for N950 Jun 21 09:28:39 ce????? Jun 21 09:28:40 nokia's trolling again, they're giving the N9... a SGX530 Jun 21 09:28:50 whatever that means, each moron in China does CE for his own devices Jun 21 09:28:53 ohmy its going to selfexplode Jun 21 09:29:20 exactly Doc, that means its probably cancerigenous o Jun 21 09:29:24 or worse Jun 21 09:29:36 (or ran out of money =) ) Jun 21 09:29:39 hiemanshu: reenignEesreveR : I'd say this is 'meego' harmattan Jun 21 09:30:54 DocScrutinizer: well its still meego 1.2 :P Jun 21 09:30:54 wonder if we'll be able to get harmattan for the n900 Jun 21 09:31:01 CE is a selfissued cert Jun 21 09:31:44 something's making me worry that nokia used at least 768MB of that 1GB RAM Jun 21 09:31:51 Hurrian: which was the only way to make that OS my friend, so certainly not my best friend Jun 21 09:32:29 Doc: given nokia's track record on PR1.0 quality, i'm probably right Jun 21 09:32:53 I an see why maemo5 wasn't backported to N8x0, but why can't N900 get maemo6 aka meego-harmattan? Jun 21 09:33:35 DS: we can get it, same GPU, still omap3 Jun 21 09:33:48 not like the big jump N8xx to N900 was Jun 21 09:33:51 I'd guess yes Jun 21 09:34:17 Not that it looks all that great, though... Jun 21 09:34:18 if nokia doesn't give it to us, somebody'll have it running on the meego kernel Jun 21 09:34:34 well, there's an image out there, I bet the first hackers feeling venturous are already killing their N900 :-P Jun 21 09:34:44 now, if only we can use the crappy front camera as the swipe sensor Jun 21 09:34:49 I'm thinking more in terms of backporting the kernel or drivers... Jun 21 09:35:00 robbiethe1st: indeed, YUCK Jun 21 09:35:45 if N900 had to mandatorily upgrade to that UX, I'd probably revert to N810 and solder some GSM module to it, like blueled did Jun 21 09:36:11 Doc: of course the N900 isn't designed for that UX Jun 21 09:36:21 we have all the buttons we need Jun 21 09:36:34 DocScrutinizer: can you offer a url for that hack Jun 21 09:36:34 nah, not me Jun 21 09:36:35 ? Jun 21 09:36:40 I'm missing the menu button Jun 21 09:36:43 maemo 5 on the N9 would be terribly whut Jun 21 09:36:53 cloudyLights: mompls Jun 21 09:37:27 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=551420#post551420 Jun 21 09:37:35 Doc: there's an image, you say? Jun 21 09:37:46 wow Jun 21 09:37:46 iirc only filenames leaked Jun 21 09:39:51 nah, there's an image for download Jun 21 09:40:03 on developers.nokia.com or somewhere Jun 21 09:43:11 Nokia N950 OneClickFlashers Jun 21 09:43:14 wheeeheeeeheeeeeeee Jun 21 09:43:48 Linux_OCF_22-6_EMMC-OEM1-916.bin Jun 21 09:43:59 get em while they're hooooot Jun 21 09:44:22 haarrl harrl, flash them on your ipod!!! Jun 21 09:44:39 hopefully, nokia didnt do the wrong thing, which would be, putting root on a OneNAND. Jun 21 09:45:09 ...Y'know, all I can say is that at 1ghz, with swappolube, improved transitions, hardware-sync(that powervr.d setting) and a *clean* optfs-filesystem, the system fairly flies. Jun 21 09:45:17 time for fuuuuun looking for where the script ends and image file starts Jun 21 09:45:30 @robbiethe1st: it's all about the new and shiny things ;) Jun 21 09:45:33 It's still slightly sluggish rendering 30-page Slashdot topics, but... Jun 21 09:45:49 and i bet the slow browser is because of the slow browser. Jun 21 09:45:54 Hurrian, it's probably sharred or something like that so should be obvious Jun 21 09:46:15 @ruskie, sharred? Jun 21 09:46:26 shell archive Jun 21 09:46:29 ah Jun 21 09:46:43 i dont feel like oc'ing all the way to 1GHz, i stay on 750 and it's good enough for me Jun 21 09:46:47 ...I wonder, has anyone tried replacing the default-browser's backend on the N900? Jun 21 09:47:23 robbiethe1st, opened a topic about that on TMO (upgrading to FF4 engine) but it seems that doing so may break crap nokia did wrong Jun 21 09:47:23 Hurrian: Mine goes to 1.15ghz stably, but I typically keep it at 950mhz max, due to it being able to run at that without getting (too)hot when maxing it out Jun 21 09:47:40 such as ovi and conversations Jun 21 09:48:27 Ovi? don't care about. Conversations, yes, but that ought to be doable. Jun 21 09:48:49 Might be interesting to try... Jun 21 09:49:16 If only copying the browser-ui and using it with a seperately linked xulrunner Jun 21 09:50:12 i don't know how to write code, so even if i did look up/diff the patches nokia made to make microb-engine, i wouldn't know where to start Jun 21 09:51:09 just reading the topic of the channel: is there a clear recommendation for a boot setup that allows Backupmenu+standard kernel+power kernel+android (+meego) (instead of using multiboot +?) Jun 21 09:51:10 Just for clarification: the whole thing about future disruptions is about what comes after the N9, not the N9 itself. The N9 is very much about world's firsts: all-screen phone, webkit2 browser, 8 MPIX camera with 16:9 wide angle lens, Dolby Headset support... Jun 21 09:51:23 ^^peter@maemo marketting say on tmo Jun 21 09:51:34 khertan, they forget a mini-hdmi ;0 Jun 21 09:51:35 ;) Jun 21 09:51:36 webkit! Jun 21 09:51:39 :( Jun 21 09:51:45 webkit!!! yay!!! Jun 21 09:51:53 jhb, android + meego = NOPE Jun 21 09:51:59 <-- has been using webkitgtk browsers for the past 2-3 years Jun 21 09:52:13 until nitdroid moves to uboot it wont happen Jun 21 09:52:16 Hurrian: the meego is optional, the first four ones I need Jun 21 09:52:26 jhb, multiboot then Jun 21 09:52:29 the only way Jun 21 09:52:58 Hurrian: thx. I thought I missed something Jun 21 09:53:50 http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/06/nokia-n950-developer.jpg < Jun 21 09:53:53 i wonder if nokia board will kick themselves if the N9 becomes a hit, microUSB issues notwithstanding Jun 21 09:54:19 they can still decide to go with meego devices along the way Jun 21 09:54:27 no Jun 21 09:54:47 javispedro, ? Jun 21 09:55:13 its too late for redemption Jun 21 09:55:25 ms already gave them a bazillion dollars Jun 21 09:55:40 javispedro, your point? Jun 21 09:55:49 last I checked the word was meego is a long term R&D Jun 21 09:56:16 I'm just hoping Intel will come out with an Intel-branded open x86 phone which we can throw a mostly-open Kubuntu Mobile on. Jun 21 09:56:35 robbiethe1st, ugh... Jun 21 09:56:47 wtf would anyone want to run x86 on a mobile device... Jun 21 09:56:55 Games! Jun 21 09:57:01 erm Jun 21 09:57:04 standarization Jun 21 09:57:15 haha Jun 21 09:57:33 It'd mean I'd be able to basically run Wine and any games from about 2000-2004 and older Jun 21 09:57:43 in before we have nvidia fermi pciex16 cards on phones! Jun 21 09:57:44 hahahahahaha Jun 21 09:57:45 and run it for 2 hours Jun 21 09:58:06 ruskie: You mean like the N900? It too only gets about two hours at maximum CPU usage Jun 21 09:58:07 robbie: get an atom. test your 2004 game. laugh. Jun 21 09:58:11 or die waiting. Jun 21 09:58:53 I'm thinking in terms of games which worked *just fine* on a P3 1ghz with a video card that couldn't do Direct3D... Jun 21 09:58:54 Will there be a successor of the N900 somewhen? Can the N950 be seen as an Update? Jun 21 09:59:04 yeah full cpu power even not overclocked give me 2 hours of juice no more Jun 21 09:59:05 freak5, the n9 is the update Jun 21 09:59:10 Things like Sim City 3/4, Populous: The beginning etc. Jun 21 09:59:19 in fact, nokia didnt even bother to replace the GPU Jun 21 09:59:19 robbie: those do not work on an atom Jun 21 09:59:26 Hurrian, it a downgrade Jun 21 09:59:26 why not? Jun 21 09:59:31 robbie: believe me I'm sc4 fan Jun 21 09:59:39 Hurrian: But it doesn't include a keyboard, does it? Jun 21 09:59:40 robbie: horribly slow Jun 21 09:59:56 @robbiethe1st , i think i can feel linus' pain when doing ALLYES builds on an atom laptop Jun 21 10:00:04 that must've been horrible Jun 21 10:00:20 SC2/SC3 ought to work, though... Jun 21 10:00:35 netbooks are too small, and the flipping takes too much space Jun 21 10:00:46 i'd rather have a 11" x86 tablet with a jumbo battery Jun 21 10:00:49 And if Populous doesn't(requiring a 100mhz Pentium 1)... Jun 21 10:01:18 I want a 5-7", 720P screen. Something the same density as our N900's screen Jun 21 10:01:22 freak5, well, unless you want to pay $9999 on eBay for a N950 Jun 21 10:02:27 robbiethe1st, i guess we'll get those specs if nokia decides to revive the NITs Jun 21 10:02:39 uhh, the tablet NITs that is Jun 21 10:02:53 Yea, maby. But it'll probably be someone else that does it, sadly. Jun 21 10:03:02 Hurrian: I hoped "development version" means that they just don't want to support it :-/ Jun 21 10:03:02 Is there any other manufacturer producing a mobile, which includes a keyboard and a real linux? Jun 21 10:03:03 and I expect it to be a few years, sadly... Jun 21 10:03:35 well, MeeGO should be "real" linux, I think Jun 21 10:03:37 A meego on a HTC would be cool I guess Jun 21 10:04:07 At the moment I only know the maemo/meego mobiles of Nokia Jun 21 10:04:14 also... http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/05/aava-mobiles-intel-moorestown-prototype-plays-world-of-warcraft/ Jun 21 10:04:17 is n950 really released in SIngapore? or is it an error? if not, why not in the rest of the world? Jun 21 10:04:31 the only maemo devices are made by nokia, the meego devices are made by a few chinese companies Jun 21 10:05:16 @freak5, once the RM680 EMMC finishes downloading, i'll check to see if i can get the image out of it Jun 21 10:05:19 Nokia announced four new phones at an event in Singapore today, three aimed at emerging markets and one at collectors of esoteric dead-end mobile hardware. <-- love the register comment Jun 21 10:05:29 Hurrian, there is cheap chineese maemo copy of maemo 4 :) Jun 21 10:05:51 does it run maemo 4? Jun 21 10:06:32 well, releasing keyboardless phone while killing qwerty one looks much like Elop's evil plan to show "your meego is doomed, not even fans will buy it", as a phone without qwerty hardly qualifies as n900 successor, and people who never owned n900 are unlikely to switch to new operating system Jun 21 10:06:54 Hurrian, a customized one ... with some part of maemo Jun 21 10:07:11 Arkenoi, exactly Jun 21 10:07:12 where's the RM680 flasher? Jun 21 10:07:15 @ruskie, don't really get why nokia would bump the processor all the way up to the latest and greatest omap3. and still have a gpu still inferior to the iphone3g Jun 21 10:07:23 @mag: http://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/db230178-aa63-4c73-ba7f-20930da13cad/Nokia_N950_OneClickFlashers.html Jun 21 10:07:24 MohammadAG, on my hardware :) Jun 21 10:07:43 but it flash n900 with last maemo release :) Jun 21 10:07:58 MAG, saw the link? Jun 21 10:08:12 khertan, what hardware? you got the N9? Jun 21 10:08:15 surprisingly, it didnt need a login Jun 21 10:08:18 N950* Jun 21 10:08:21 MohammadAG, nope an n900 Jun 21 10:08:41 oh, /me clicks Jun 21 10:08:44 MohammadAG, just a try ;) to see what happen Jun 21 10:08:45 thanks Hurrian Jun 21 10:08:55 http://forums.theregister.co.uk/post/1098448 Jun 21 10:09:10 MohammadAG, as i launch it thinking it ll uncompress first ... but it s found my n900 on usb and try to flash it Jun 21 10:09:26 apparently on linux it looks for phonet device, and with any hope it'll try to flash the n900 Jun 21 10:09:45 http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/unstable/beta/Fremantle_Update7_vs_Harmattan_Beta_content_comparison.html Jun 21 10:10:33 fremantle update 7? did i miss something here? Jun 21 10:10:47 well at least we know flasher isn't open source now :p Jun 21 10:10:59 fremantle update 7 ? Jun 21 10:11:10 woah, big ass eMMC image Jun 21 10:11:45 MAG: 558 MB Jun 21 10:11:51 lets hope it boots with the meego kernel Jun 21 10:11:59 heh the colors aren't always correct.. Jun 21 10:12:11 you have flash a n900 with it ? Jun 21 10:12:13 1:1.0.2-maemo4+0m5 vs 1.2.0+339+0m6 <- doesn't look like a downgrade to me.. Jun 21 10:12:39 are we already running harmattan on N900? Jun 21 10:12:46 nooope Jun 21 10:13:15 i'll probably do it tomorrow, i'll still have to get the full root Jun 21 10:13:17 Hurrian: Do you know any device which could replace the N900 somewhen? Should I look up the chinese companies? Are their products competetive? Jun 21 10:13:49 Freak5, wait and buy an N9 Jun 21 10:13:54 Stop raging about the keyboard Jun 21 10:13:56 Near as I can tell, nothing can replace the N900 Jun 21 10:14:04 Termana: Um... Jun 21 10:14:23 Keyboard == important. Hard to type out comments with a virtual keyboard Jun 21 10:14:26 and get a BT keyboard Jun 21 10:14:27 robbiethe1st, true, but as long as no one else's making decent maemo/meego phones, there's no one else Jun 21 10:14:29 N950 seems quite nice imo. Jun 21 10:14:48 Hurrian: how about webOS? :P Jun 21 10:14:51 it has Qt too Jun 21 10:15:18 mece, too bad it's not going retail. I would have rathered a retail n950 than the N9 Jun 21 10:15:26 hiemanshu, try to use a bt keyboard in the subway Jun 21 10:15:30 hiemanshu: big proprietary POS Jun 21 10:15:37 hiemanshu, old qt version 4.5 Jun 21 10:15:39 Termana, yep. I think a lot of people agree with that. Jun 21 10:15:44 khertan: we have no subways in India :P Jun 21 10:15:45 Termana, are you a developer? Jun 21 10:15:49 Hurrian: heh :P Jun 21 10:16:04 I wouldn't mind getting a developer N950 and paying for it Jun 21 10:16:16 hiemanshu, prepare your anus Jun 21 10:16:16 hiemanshu, so trying standing up in the bus to write Jun 21 10:16:38 mece, yesish. I've done kernel work for the N810, but nothing much else for MeeGo/Maemo besides that Jun 21 10:17:05 Is the keyboard the only difference between the N9 and N950 and it can be added like it is shown for the iPads? Jun 21 10:17:17 khertan: maybe they can make one with a case Jun 21 10:17:24 freak5, nope Jun 21 10:17:37 the n950's slider is built in like the n900 Jun 21 10:17:46 and nope, i dont want a crappy laptop kb case Jun 21 10:18:13 Hurrian: ask swype to support meego Jun 21 10:18:35 hiemanshu, You mean like the iPhone ones? We can be rich, quickly lets start on this idea. Jun 21 10:18:39 I wonder if there will be an accessory like the one for the iphone that attaches a small bt keyboard to the device Jun 21 10:18:40 :p Jun 21 10:18:43 that's viable, seeing as meego isn't just nokia Jun 21 10:18:56 Termana: err no, I meant swype like the android ones :P Jun 21 10:19:15 termana, i'd like a case that wraps around the whole n9, making it look like a mini-laptop Jun 21 10:19:28 that would be nice as well Jun 21 10:19:31 Hurrian: I didn't mean the slider mechanism. I just have never used a non PS/2 Keyboard yet. Jun 21 10:19:45 peopple still use PS/2? Jun 21 10:19:50 Hurrian, but it has one prob... you can't see the screen Jun 21 10:19:58 hiemanshu, or they are confused and meant usb|ps/2 Jun 21 10:20:09 hiemanshu, and yes HP still ships their boxen with ps/2 crap by default Jun 21 10:20:27 And I have seen people having problems with USB keyboards at their computers when changing bios options. Bluetooth will be even more problematic, won't it? Jun 21 10:20:28 http://pastebin.com/0SWqx8JL <<< the know diff between n9 and n950 Jun 21 10:20:38 ruskie, one like the HP laptop with rotating screen then Jun 21 10:20:44 ruskie: sure, I have a HDMI port on my GPU, doesn't mean I have to use it :P Jun 21 10:20:49 the screen is inside a frame, going round and round Jun 21 10:21:21 Freak5: I have a wireless keyboard/mouse for almost all my computers, no issues at all Jun 21 10:26:45 hiemanshu: In case I want to use IRC or Skype on a train, there will be keyboards which are connectable to the screen? If I used one hand to hold the screen, there would be a half hand for typing, since I had to use two fingers for holding the keyboard, too. Jun 21 10:26:45 One last question: I have heard that the N800 and N900 allowed an usb host mode. Will this be possible for the N900, too. Not that I really needed it, but it would open a lot of possebilities to show of. I could flash an ATmega by using a smartphone for example ^^ Jun 21 10:28:02 freak5, yes, hostmode works Jun 21 10:28:12 on both devices. Jun 21 10:28:30 on the n900 it might be a bit flaky Jun 21 10:28:38 i can't speak for the n8x0 series, but on the n900, it's got everything i've thrown at it Jun 21 10:28:44 Freak5: you could always build yourself a case with anything you feel comfortable Jun 21 10:28:46 dunno if I'd use it for flashing anything Jun 21 10:28:59 (but it is doable) Jun 21 10:29:07 1TB hard drives, hp print+scanners, numerous flash drives Jun 21 10:29:14 javispedro: and I assume you need a different cable for the hostmode? Jun 21 10:29:32 you need a female-female usb adapter Jun 21 10:29:41 the nokia otg cable will not fit Jun 21 10:29:44 ^^ Jun 21 10:30:02 ah, I have male to male, no female to female Jun 21 10:30:06 maybe I can make one Jun 21 10:31:22 Hurrian: Lol I just Imagined someone having a big printer on his shoulder (like a Getthoblaster) searching for a power-socket to print stuff from his mobile :-P Jun 21 10:31:35 Read in context, I think Freak5 might have actually been asking about host-mode on the N9/N950 Jun 21 10:31:41 not the N900 Jun 21 10:32:06 "I have heard that the N800 and N900 allowed an usb host mode. Will this be possible for the N900, too" Jun 21 10:32:18 Err, yes. I was asking about the N9/N950. Argh... Thx. Jun 21 10:32:30 I mistyped there. Sry Jun 21 10:32:45 Is there something known about the N9? Jun 21 10:32:46 uhh, the n9/50 will obv have otg Jun 21 10:33:01 as with every nokia smartphone nowadays Jun 21 10:33:04 there is a easy mod for an n9 keyboard : http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013AX62K/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=1278548962&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0761121102&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0SW16P1WPB4JYJPSJ0K3 + http://www.amazon.com/Rii-Wireless-Keyboard-Touchpad-RT-MWK01/dp/B003UE52ME Jun 21 10:33:38 khertan, lol scotch tape. I rikey Jun 21 10:33:48 Hurrian: uhh, the n9/50 will obv have otg <- ??? obv , otg? Jun 21 10:33:54 obviously have otg Jun 21 10:34:04 Freak5, On The Go Jun 21 10:34:04 sorry, typing this all out on a n900 Jun 21 10:35:09 Freak5, it basically means yes in answer to your question Jun 21 10:35:40 nokia n9 info released Jun 21 10:35:49 http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/Device_specifications/N9-00/ Jun 21 10:35:52 it's happening Jun 21 10:35:55 meego device Jun 21 10:36:25 jacekowski: And how do you think this is still news? :) Jun 21 10:36:38 s/how/why/ Jun 21 10:36:38 X-Fade meant: jacekowski: And why do you think this is still news? :) Jun 21 10:36:44 don't blame him, he's in the UK, one hour differnece Jun 21 10:36:47 difference** Jun 21 10:36:51 i've just heard it about it Jun 21 10:36:53 Ah yeah, always laggy :) Jun 21 10:37:08 X-Fade, you're in a stoner country, you can't make fun of people who "lag". Jun 21 10:37:12 crashanddie: on d-day we will live hour longer Jun 21 10:37:15 Hurrian: You are using IRC on your N900? It must be a good keyboard. I'll think about taping a N9 to a standalone minikeyboard then ^^ Jun 21 10:37:27 anyways Jun 21 10:37:29 back to work Jun 21 10:37:38 X-Fade: Does COBS have Harmattan targets yet? And is there going to be a wiki page on using Qt SDK and/or MeeGo SDK to target MeeGo & Harmattan through COBS? Jun 21 10:37:54 Jaffa: Working on it. Jun 21 10:38:09 Jaffa: The idea is to have full build targets at MeeGo cobs. Jun 21 10:40:53 haha Jun 21 10:40:54 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iTKd1AoYLg - what have I done ._. Jun 21 10:41:06 Freak5, yes, i'm using the N900's keyboard. Jun 21 10:41:13 CEO walks around, talking about wanting to buy our own TLD Jun 21 10:41:43 Saying "I can live with a 150k euro investment if we're guaranteed to operate everything we want" Jun 21 10:42:02 >buy a TLD Jun 21 10:42:04 WHY Jun 21 10:42:06 Guys, I managed to setup remote debuggin on N900 in visual studio ._. Jun 21 10:42:19 crashanddie: Did you tell him about the extra costs? :) Like people with skills and servers etc :) Jun 21 10:42:20 Then I slip in "The 150k has to be paid regardless of TLD acceptance, so we could pay 150k and end up with nothing" Jun 21 10:42:29 X-Fade, we run 200 servers? Jun 21 10:42:37 keks-n, MSVS debugger blows! Jun 21 10:42:50 crashanddie: Still, you need to assign time. And time is money :) Jun 21 10:42:52 then again, gdb is worse :( Jun 21 10:42:59 X-Fade, yeah, we can make up for that Jun 21 10:43:07 gdb is useless with _managed_ code Jun 21 10:43:10 X-Fade, anyway, he doesn't want to gamble away 150k, so the discussion is over :) Jun 21 10:43:36 crashanddie, you should have told him to buy ".ugo" Jun 21 10:43:45 would have made some great domain names Jun 21 10:43:53 here.ugo, thisway.ugo Jun 21 10:53:23 so converting a male to female to a female to female usb hub would work for the N900? Jun 21 10:54:26 shouldn't really matter since all you're doing is just connecting wires Jun 21 10:54:32 the type isn't an issue Jun 21 10:54:48 I wondered about the same ^^. But then it would be just sick if somebody sits somewhere having a mobile printer, hard disk and a keyboard connected to a phone ^^ Jun 21 10:55:40 freak5, what do you think i'll retire the N900 to once i find a suitable new device? Jun 21 10:56:45 The N900 will be much more awesome as a secondary device, because then I don't have to worry about breaking it when hacking :) Jun 21 10:56:54 Hurrian: If you ask that way....err... I don't know. Jun 21 10:57:13 freak5, nettop :) Jun 21 10:59:25 the N950 will have a 2GB /home Jun 21 10:59:26 4GB preserve, whatever that is Jun 21 10:59:26 and the rest is "mmc2", an equivalent of MyDocs Jun 21 10:59:27 mece, isn't there a way to have two partitions, one you can fuck up and one you can use for everything else? kind of like dual booting OSs on computers? Jun 21 10:59:56 mag, O RLY? Jun 21 11:00:03 there seems to be a way to restore CAL backups through flasher Jun 21 11:00:34 I mean, why can't it be designed the way PC OSs are - those don't "brick" Jun 21 11:00:34 yeah, that's what the image says :p Jun 21 11:00:34 internetishard, well you can easily run something from microsd Jun 21 11:00:43 you just boot the backup kernel, or wathever Jun 21 11:00:47 N900 is really hard to brick Jun 21 11:00:50 mag, downloaded the image? Jun 21 11:00:53 by brick I mean brick Jun 21 11:00:59 Sure yeah. Jun 21 11:01:08 I thought I did once, but I didn't Jun 21 11:01:48 if anyone's done with the image, lemme know if it has the full root Jun 21 11:01:52 mece, well I don't know about that. Having someone dip mine in water did the trick ;) :p Jun 21 11:01:54 Hurrian, yes Jun 21 11:01:57 http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/non-free/b/bme/ i laughed. Jun 21 11:02:05 root seems to live on the eMMC if I'm not mistaken Jun 21 11:02:10 yaaaaaaaaaay Jun 21 11:02:20 maemo.org's gonna have a field day Jun 21 11:02:35 Termana, well that happens to a pc too... Jun 21 11:02:40 Qt libraries are in the image, as well as an agreement between the developer and Nokia Jun 21 11:02:44 so i need to become a developer Jun 21 11:02:46 NIN101, no one expected BME to become open Jun 21 11:02:57 And if you did, you were kidding yourself from the start Jun 21 11:02:58 yes I know. Jun 21 11:03:08 mag, lol agreement Jun 21 11:03:51 maps app is Ovi Maps For Developers Jun 21 11:03:52 anyone have any idea what the kernel version is? Jun 21 11:04:11 probably 2.6.37 Jun 21 11:04:15 good! Jun 21 11:04:28 why does this aegisfs thing sound much like palmpre's cryptofs Jun 21 11:04:30 2.6.32 Jun 21 11:04:43 http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/k/kernel/ Jun 21 11:04:45 if you trust this of course Jun 21 11:04:49 javispedro, probably another NIH from nokia Jun 21 11:05:00 both are propietary Jun 21 11:05:18 2.6.32. oh nokia, what are you doing Jun 21 11:05:28 bah Jun 21 11:05:39 newer kernels are a waste of power either way Jun 21 11:05:52 oh well, hopefully they didnt patch that kernel everywhere Jun 21 11:05:57 Hurrian: tell RHEL who are on .18 :P Jun 21 11:06:10 Is there a bootloader to choose OSs to boot? Jun 21 11:06:17 my isp was on 2.4 until this week Jun 21 11:06:18 let's make sure of that Jun 21 11:06:30 one that kicks in before stuff you usually brake when messing with one OS? Jun 21 11:07:15 ((USB hotmode/OTG) Is there something known about the N9?) the spec page doesn't mention any of those capabilities Jun 21 11:07:42 oooh flasher is quite intersting Jun 21 11:07:50 running xcalib on the n900 would be sweet Jun 21 11:07:56 So, Nokia is confusing Jun 21 11:08:08 http://paste.ubuntu.com/630358/ have fun Jun 21 11:08:44 First they announce maemo/moblin merge, spending money on it, then switches to winmobile... and all of a sudden announces a MeeGo phone? Jun 21 11:08:59 winphone* i guess Jun 21 11:09:11 I don't like the "cert" parts. Jun 21 11:09:14 FIQ|n900: not only that, the MeeGo phone has Maemo underneath Jun 21 11:09:19 FIQ|n900: This has been the strategy since Feb11th Jun 21 11:09:27 FIQ|n900: the most surprising thing was releasing a maemo phone over a year after it was killed in favor of meego Jun 21 11:09:29 the image I was linked to is a self extracting image, not a flasher one -> 150M emmc.bin 408M img.bin Jun 21 11:09:40 pabs3: Define "Maemo"? Have you looked at the package comparison between Maemo 5 & Harmattan? Jun 21 11:10:38 Jaffa: Maemo has always been .deb based, seems Harmattan is too? Jun 21 11:11:11 how hard do you think it would be to port a simple unix app with an xorg dep to maemo? Jun 21 11:11:15 ooh Jun 21 11:11:22 RX-71 images in img.bin Jun 21 11:11:50 RM-716 too, as well as RM-696 Jun 21 11:11:56 pabs3: Yes. But you think the packaging is *really* that important? Jun 21 11:12:16 MohammadAG: Interesting. Maybe RX-71 -> RM-680? Jun 21 11:12:22 MohammadAG: \o/ Jun 21 11:12:43 Jaffa: IIRC its part of the spec for MeeGo Jun 21 11:12:48 NIN101 is right, Linux version 2.6.32.39-dfl61-20112P Jun 21 11:13:09 Jaffa, no, references for lots of devices, RM-71, RM-716, RM-680, RM-690, RM-696 Jun 21 11:13:40 cmt-algo_RM-660+RM-680 cmt-algo_RM-690 cmt-algo_RM-696 cmt-algo_RM-716 cmt-algo_RX-71 Jun 21 11:13:46 im confused, nokia conversations is talking about a new design of charger theyll be shipping with the n9 Jun 21 11:13:48 well, no sense to keep different fw Jun 21 11:13:49 that comes in white Jun 21 11:13:56 for a phone that's black, pink, or blue :\ Jun 21 11:13:57 for a dev device Jun 21 11:14:05 as well as lots of HW Revisions for the RM-680 Jun 21 11:14:30 pabs3: Yes. However, I've got an app which can run on Symbian, Maemo 5, Harmattan and MeeGo with very little changes. Jun 21 11:14:42 HW revisions here http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=B5PBxBSD Jun 21 11:14:49 nid0: And it's exactly like the Kindle's. Jun 21 11:14:53 nid0: ...with a black cable. Jun 21 11:15:43 mmc0 and mmc1 images too, I wonder if they have two eMMCs in the device Jun 21 11:16:29 MAG, how are you unpacking it? Jun 21 11:16:34 MohammadAG at his best - dissecting new "firmware" releases :-D Jun 21 11:16:41 MohammadAG: go, GOOOOO Jun 21 11:16:59 Hurrian: I guess with the appropriate flasher command Jun 21 11:17:24 they packed flasher binaries in the bin Jun 21 11:17:33 MohammadAG: quite possibly two eMMC, to make for 64GB Jun 21 11:17:34 ah, i thought he was extracting root images Jun 21 11:17:35 haven't tried the old flasher, this one seems a bit nicer Jun 21 11:17:39 does it matter what kind of USB cable I get to go from the micro usb to a usb thumb drive? Jun 21 11:17:53 wiping user data, restoring cal etc Jun 21 11:18:07 --backup-cal=ARG Take backup of CAL area Jun 21 11:18:11 --restore-cal=ARG Restore CAL area Jun 21 11:18:14 MohammadAG, could you give us a link to the image you have? Jun 21 11:18:30 someone gave it to me some lines up Jun 21 11:18:33 internetishard: use a good one :-) Jun 21 11:18:41 @mag: http://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/db230178-aa63-4c73-ba7f-20930da13cad/Nokia_N950_OneClickFlashers.html Jun 21 11:18:49 MohammadAG: any dea why this happens to me http://dpaste.com/556873/ ? Jun 21 11:19:02 thx Jun 21 11:19:08 DocScrutinizer: sorry I don't follow Jun 21 11:19:11 I am using a 64 bit pc, but ran the vdsd=0 thing Jun 21 11:19:21 cloudyLights, sb-menu -> last option (kill), signal 11 Jun 21 11:19:22 Is it better with a hub? Good one = shorter? what? Jun 21 11:19:25 and try again Jun 21 11:19:51 internetishard: actually it doesn't matter much Jun 21 11:20:41 internetishard: though we've seen a lot of troubles on H-E-N caused by poor cables and esp defect USB-F - USB-F adapters Jun 21 11:20:53 MohammasAG: solved! thanks Jun 21 11:21:35 MohammadAG: how's your day? :-D Jun 21 11:21:40 rootfs is 4GBs Jun 21 11:21:49 \o/ Jun 21 11:21:53 type ext4 Jun 21 11:21:57 \o/ Jun 21 11:21:58 O.o Jun 21 11:22:02 expected ubifs or btrfs Jun 21 11:22:03 oh well Jun 21 11:22:19 Yeah, might get this: http://cgi.ebay.com/short-Usb-2-0-female-micro-B-male-cable-adapter-/320716171819?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item4aac2c6a2b goes right to it Jun 21 11:22:26 probably no NAND for rootfs Jun 21 11:22:43 label = "rootfs"; Jun 21 11:22:46 size = 4096; Jun 21 11:22:46 fs_type = "ext4"; Jun 21 11:22:46 options = "anyfstype"; Jun 21 11:22:51 internetishard: sounds good, yes Jun 21 11:22:58 MohammadAG: I still can't get X to work in scratchbox Jun 21 11:22:59 I wonder if NOLO changes the fs type on device Jun 21 11:23:01 [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > af-sb-init.sh start Jun 21 11:23:02 bash: af-sb-init.sh: command not found Jun 21 11:23:27 ext4, oh well Jun 21 11:23:28 the 4GB rootfs and 4GB reserve are interesting Jun 21 11:23:36 i wanted btrfs :( Jun 21 11:23:40 I wonder if it's some sort of backup option for devs to store rootfs backups Jun 21 11:23:52 mag, 4GB reserve is probably for bad block reallocation Jun 21 11:23:53 there's also another 2GB reserve, probably for /home Jun 21 11:24:04 or nokia will troll us and use 4GB for swap Jun 21 11:24:09 no Jun 21 11:24:13 I'm pretty sure it's for backups Jun 21 11:24:15 Hurrian: highly unlikely Jun 21 11:24:24 4GB rootfs, 4GB reserve on other eMMC Jun 21 11:24:36 2GB /home, 2GB reserve on other eMMC Jun 21 11:24:42 recovery OS Jun 21 11:24:44 but I like your "feed" here about the N950 better... Jun 21 11:24:51 phones like this seem to need a better von neumann architecture Jun 21 11:24:54 wait, hold on a sec. nokia's using 2 EMMC's, UNSTRIPED? Jun 21 11:25:00 but when someone can help me with scratchbox - please do Jun 21 11:25:08 so it's basically each eMMC backing up the other Jun 21 11:25:09 between cpu cache, memory, and fairly low latency flash Jun 21 11:25:30 Maybe it is merely a lack of RAM though Jun 21 11:25:56 great news: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Nokia-announces-MeeGo-powered-N9-smartphone-1264199.html Jun 21 11:26:11 Hurrian: where's the use of such fancy stuff when there'S only one interface and both are slow on writing back a block Jun 21 11:26:19 cloudyLights, install nokia binaries Jun 21 11:26:19 eMMC layouts here http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Tiwvs5Sc Jun 21 11:26:37 yeah, since only devs need to be able to type Jun 21 11:26:39 ds, isn't the omap3 soc able to handle multiple mmc devices? Jun 21 11:26:50 elitist assholes Jun 21 11:27:21 internetishard: see massive success of slabphones Jun 21 11:27:25 SDK is on device Jun 21 11:27:44 installable over USB mass storage Jun 21 11:27:45 understood Jun 21 11:27:59 MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_API_Reference_Beta.zip SDK-installer-os-x.dmg Jun 21 11:28:00 SDK-installer-linux-32bit.bin SDK-installer-windows.exe Jun 21 11:28:00 SDK-installer-linux-64bit.bin Jun 21 11:28:01 critique not withdrawn Jun 21 11:28:26 MAG: SDK is on device Jun 21 11:28:32 ? Jun 21 11:28:42 did they strap all the headers etc on it? Jun 21 11:28:55 yes, meaning devs don't have to download it when they get the N950, simply plug and install Jun 21 11:29:22 mmc1 is the system eMMC image Jun 21 11:29:26 that's great, no more downloading 350MB of crap only to have it sputter on non-debian systems Jun 21 11:29:33 containing /home Jun 21 11:29:49 .lzo files are compressed files right? Jun 21 11:29:55 yeah Jun 21 11:30:13 how do I uncompress them? Jun 21 11:30:19 unlzo Jun 21 11:30:33 oops Jun 21 11:30:34 lzop Jun 21 11:30:39 apt-get install lzop Jun 21 11:30:57 lzop -d maemo6.lzop :) Jun 21 11:31:39 # lzop -d rootfs.lzo Jun 21 11:31:45 lzop: rootfs.lzo: not a lzop file Jun 21 11:31:46 :/ Jun 21 11:31:51 D: Jun 21 11:31:53 MohammadAG: file rootfs.lzo Jun 21 11:32:06 should tell you type of file Jun 21 11:32:08 # file rootfs.lzo Jun 21 11:32:08 rootfs.lzo: data Jun 21 11:32:19 wut Jun 21 11:32:26 haha Jun 21 11:32:38 goddamn it nokia Jun 21 11:32:40 data means binary but it can understand it :/ Jun 21 11:33:11 MohammadAG: head rootfs.lzo Jun 21 11:33:22 when file says data, it does not know what the fuck it is Jun 21 11:33:29 nothing helpful hiemanshu :/ Jun 21 11:33:31 Hurrian: yeah Jun 21 11:33:59 ~bash Nokia lzo Jun 21 11:33:59 * infobot beats Nokia lzo with ksh Jun 21 11:34:06 in before nokia stripped the magic off the lzo file Jun 21 11:34:43 I sometimes wonder if she's way more conscious than we would think Jun 21 11:34:49 hiemanshu, http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=fw3ijhsR Jun 21 11:35:00 MohammadAG: try ksh ;-P Jun 21 11:35:08 rootfs Jun 21 11:35:10 (j/k) Jun 21 11:35:15 well, apparently it's packed Jun 21 11:35:33 hmm Jun 21 11:35:40 yeah, its packed Jun 21 11:35:41 gives me ideas Jun 21 11:35:58 it shows /mnt Jun 21 11:36:11 MAG, lzop -df file.lzo Jun 21 11:36:16 might help Jun 21 11:36:29 oops Jun 21 11:36:35 I need fiasco-gen :/ Jun 21 11:36:37 lzop -dff file.lzo Jun 21 11:36:46 internetishard: the rumormill's been that the n950 was severely delayed due to hinge problems; it's probably not going to go into a full production run any time soon and the development runs are unsellable, so handing out legally-locked-down loaners is the friendliest compromise Nokia can offer. Jun 21 11:36:47 do eet :) Jun 21 11:37:01 # lzop -dff rootfs.lzo Jun 21 11:37:08 lzop: rootfs.lzo: not a lzop file Jun 21 11:37:15 D: Jun 21 11:37:28 - try to decompress files that do not have a valid suffix Jun 21 11:37:28 - try to handle compressed files with unknown header flags Jun 21 11:37:29 nooo Jun 21 11:37:30 MohammadAG: try mounting it? Jun 21 11:37:32 two USB interfaces to flash? Suitable USB interface (bootloader/phonet) not found, waiting... Jun 21 11:37:50 hiemanshu, no dice Jun 21 11:38:02 * hiemanshu shoots nokia in the head Jun 21 11:38:27 # ./flasher -r rootfs.lzo Jun 21 11:38:27 flasher 3.11.5 (May 17 2011) Harmattan Jun 21 11:38:28 ERROR: rootfs in this format requires a layout file - you need to use fiasco-gen Jun 21 11:38:28 ERROR: Error processing option -r Jun 21 11:38:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lempel–Ziv–Oberhumer WIWF Jun 21 11:39:08 I wonder if I should backup my N900's cal and try to restore it Jun 21 11:39:13 with the Harmattan flasher Jun 21 11:39:15 in before brick Jun 21 11:39:30 backup should be read only, /me tries it Jun 21 11:39:33 well, if backup doesn't work, you know what not to do :) Jun 21 11:39:37 MohammadAG: are you now trying to install maemo6 on your N900? Jun 21 11:39:49 or did you allready have the N950? Jun 21 11:40:00 cloudyLights: dont we all want to install maemo 6? Jun 21 11:40:06 sorry I am at work trying to keep up with this channel Jun 21 11:40:52 MohammadAG: STOP IT Jun 21 11:40:55 guys I just installed aptitude but it segfaults: Jun 21 11:40:57 Ouch! Got SIGSEGV, dying .. Jun 21 11:40:58 Segmentation fault Jun 21 11:41:07 make a conventional "backup" first (dd) Jun 21 11:41:29 ERROR: Failed to backup CAL: Use APE flashing algorithm. Jun 21 11:41:30 in case nothing helps you probably can dd it back to NAND Jun 21 11:41:42 aptitude segfaults after "Building tag databases" Jun 21 11:43:16 well, new flasher features don't work, bummer Jun 21 11:43:44 cloudyLights, nope, no N950 Jun 21 11:44:03 otherwise I'd be probably be tied to some agreement to stfu about all I said :p Jun 21 11:44:17 MohammadAG: I bet these new features aren't tailored to cooperate with old NOLO Jun 21 11:47:09 jrayhawk: Well, why not start with something that is tried and true (*hadhhjn900dacksagh*) instead of doing something from scratch? Jun 21 11:47:20 Then you won't have hinge problems Jun 21 11:47:28 DocScrutinizer, worse Jun 21 11:47:30 I tried to read something about the CMT Jun 21 11:47:32 it failed Jun 21 11:47:34 booted up back to maemo, and I have a crossed sim Jun 21 11:48:39 Actually, the question is more "why not start many things and par down the ones that don't work". Which they did. Jun 21 11:48:53 And now we have the N9. Jun 21 11:48:58 MohammadAG: OUCH Jun 21 11:49:03 anyone ever tried to dump a backup of N900's calendar and convert it to something useful that can be imported into google.. ? Jun 21 11:49:09 n900 did work jrayhawk Jun 21 11:49:13 MohammadAG: it recoverd? Jun 21 11:49:20 haj, I wish Jun 21 11:49:40 Are you arguing that you want an N900 running meego? Because that option is still entirely available to you. Jun 21 11:49:49 not at all Jun 21 11:50:00 haj: it's just sqlite db Jun 21 11:50:28 Just keep the qualities of their previous phone that people chose it for being the best on the market in terms of Jun 21 11:50:49 (hardware keyboard, etc) Jun 21 11:51:14 not yet Jun 21 11:51:24 internetishard: the N900 kbd been criticised a lot for only being 3row, too clumsy, whatnot Jun 21 11:51:28 MAG, it actually wrote to mtd1? Jun 21 11:51:43 I'll try flashing the cmt again in a bit Jun 21 11:51:49 Indeed, at least it is physical, though Jun 21 11:52:07 edheldil: I know.. just wondered.. :) I'm still hoping Nokia gives me a N900 back soon... though I guess it's going to take them months.. Jun 21 11:52:44 i still have 2 hours remaining on the EMMC image download D: Jun 21 11:52:48 So you're arguing that it was a bad idea to attempt to innovate the keyboard they way they did. Jun 21 11:52:48 haj: tell them you want a N950 instead :-P Jun 21 11:53:08 DocScrutinizer: don't think that will work.. :) Jun 21 11:53:16 prolly not Jun 21 11:53:17 who, jrayhawk? Jun 21 11:53:20 Or the hinge, rather. Jun 21 11:53:28 innovate, copy? Jun 21 11:54:10 DocScrutinizer: the keyboard was better on 9300i Jun 21 11:54:28 haj: I dunno N950 kbd Jun 21 11:55:00 I always thought N810 kbd been better than N900 Jun 21 11:55:03 the fact that the n900 slides open probably saves enough time to make up for the gap between the 9300i and itself (for my usage pattern anyway) Jun 21 11:55:11 a lot likes to disagree Jun 21 11:55:17 DocScrutinizer: .. compared to N900.. :) Jun 21 11:55:29 aah Jun 21 11:55:37 dunno 9300i either Jun 21 11:56:15 I'm with you on the n810. The properly functioning USB and ample use of aluminum were also big advantages. Jun 21 11:57:07 yep Jun 21 11:58:09 I personally liked the N900 keyboard better than the N810 keyboard, the N900 one felt more responsive Jun 21 11:58:23 mag, any breakthroughs? Jun 21 11:58:38 Well, it probably was more responsive, what with the better hardware. Jun 21 11:58:44 yeah, m modem broke :p Jun 21 11:58:54 No, I bent the tactile feedback being more responsive Jun 21 11:58:56 meant* Jun 21 11:59:11 excuse me, but what is this? http://www.worldofnokia.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/jpeg-588x441.jpg Jun 21 11:59:23 Oh gees here we go Jun 21 11:59:28 Did you just wake up too? Jun 21 11:59:47 That's an n950 developer phone in graphite. Jun 21 12:00:04 That thing we are all sad we don't get to buy for the time being. Jun 21 12:00:05 MAG well, at least we now know not to use flasher-4.0 with the n900 :) Jun 21 12:00:07 jrayhawk: ah. will it probably be released somewhere in the future? Jun 21 12:00:13 ah I see Jun 21 12:00:14 too bad. Jun 21 12:00:17 Shapeshifter, the N9 will be retailed Jun 21 12:00:19 looks decent. Jun 21 12:00:22 but not the N950 Jun 21 12:00:23 hmm Jun 21 12:00:30 MohammadAG: WTF?!!! :-o Jun 21 12:00:32 rmmoding and insmoding the SIM module fixed it Jun 21 12:00:36 well, clearly I stick with the n900 then ^^ Jun 21 12:00:38 shapeshifter, that looks like a graphite jessie's girl Jun 21 12:00:53 I wonder if it's my device being retarded rather than flasher Jun 21 12:00:58 (it drops the sim sometimes) Jun 21 12:01:15 I expect they want to put the n950 on the market, but it'll depend on how fast and how well they can fix it and what the market looks like by the time they do. Jun 21 12:01:24 I wonder when N950 requests are processed Jun 21 12:01:27 A lot of things can go wrong. Jun 21 12:01:44 jrayhawk, I'm not sure i like calling it the "developer phone", after all, we can assume since there is only around 250 of them, if it gets at least a bit popular developers will have to be buying N9s Jun 21 12:02:16 There's 250 for developer.nokia.com and 250 for Meego, and also a large number floating around for partner companies and internal development. Jun 21 12:02:52 javispedro: hi! Jun 21 12:03:19 qgil, said there are more for the commercial side on developer.nokia.com Jun 21 12:03:22 erm Jun 21 12:03:42 ZogG, you can't get 2 N950s Jun 21 12:07:17 by the way, why isn't it possible to 'hint' the GPS module where you are even without cell towers, like - on a map. can't you mimmick the A-GPS funcitoniality by pointing on a map saying "I'm roughly here"? Jun 21 12:07:50 It probably is. Jun 21 12:07:57 But... Jun 21 12:08:25 The n810 had an app for that, even. Jun 21 12:09:02 Bets on nokia stock price on the NYSE 1 hour after start of trade? Currently at 5.85 - I think 6.2 Jun 21 12:09:31 well, premarket's up to 5.97 so far Jun 21 12:09:32 Shapeshifter: it works like that on N810 AGPS beta app Jun 21 12:09:45 DocScrutinizer: does it speed up the fix? Jun 21 12:09:46 hmm, the N9 doesn't have HDMI/OTG? Jun 21 12:09:59 seems not Jun 21 12:10:04 Shapeshifter: should Jun 21 12:10:15 wtf Jun 21 12:10:33 yeah Jun 21 12:10:39 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/21/aliens_comms_for_us_firefighters/ <-- nice idea Jun 21 12:10:52 Yeah, AGPS on the n810 sped things up significantly. Jun 21 12:11:37 Wait wait, I forgot the REALLY IMPORTANT QUESTION: Jun 21 12:11:44 Does N9 have the color LED????? Jun 21 12:11:47 Especially since the n810, IIRC, did not actually store your last position. Jun 21 12:12:13 RST38h nope xD Jun 21 12:12:41 ThreeM: Noooooooooooooooooooooo Jun 21 12:12:57 It is amoled, just show some color pixels on a black screen :) Jun 21 12:13:22 the lack of hdmi is quite baffling :\ Jun 21 12:13:46 nid0: Penetrations in a case like it has are challenging Jun 21 12:13:56 strings ape-algo | grep modules -> auth_rpcgss? ramzswap?? Jun 21 12:14:02 nid0: Putting the HDMI slot in the case I suspect is not possible Jun 21 12:14:20 SpeedEvil, it happily has 2 flap-covered slots for the usb and sim trays :\ Jun 21 12:14:21 X-Fade, he was referring to the RGB LED :P Jun 21 12:14:27 Nokia has not historically been shy about making weird connectors. Jun 21 12:14:29 and the one for the usb charger seems way bigger than it needs to be Jun 21 12:14:32 MohammadAG: Yes, I know :) Jun 21 12:14:33 ape is a initrdfs ? Jun 21 12:15:15 nid0: The device is just that small. Jun 21 12:15:49 X-Fade: the problem is the screen has limited angle of visibility Jun 21 12:15:59 and the kbd Jun 21 12:16:07 DocScrutinizer: So does a led? Jun 21 12:16:09 ... ok ... i repeat myself and go out Jun 21 12:16:23 nid0: the entire N9 concept is quite baffling Jun 21 12:16:34 ds Jun 21 12:16:59 omg Stskeeps Jun 21 12:17:06 behave gentleman! Jun 21 12:17:09 X-Fade: N810's LED arguably did Jun 21 12:17:13 ah, damn autojoin.. Jun 21 12:17:13 :P Jun 21 12:17:18 *gentlemen ;) Jun 21 12:17:39 DocScrutinizer: For OLED - not so much Jun 21 12:17:43 Stskeeps: You know you love it here :) Jun 21 12:17:46 DocScrutinizer: - limited angle Jun 21 12:17:49 SpeedEvil: ?? Jun 21 12:17:55 Stskeeps, lol Jun 21 12:17:57 * ShadowJK stumbles in without a backlog and guesses the N9 wasn't what people expected? (still haven't checked on it myself) Jun 21 12:17:59 DocScrutinizer: For n9 Jun 21 12:18:11 no, just morbidly interested in that people claimed they're dissecting emmc images ;) Jun 21 12:18:17 and wanted to see them work Jun 21 12:18:23 First impression.. "It looks like a samsung" ... "...with nokia ugly added" Jun 21 12:18:24 that was one hour ago :P Jun 21 12:18:25 "Just a swipe away" eh.. isn't apple going to sue? Jun 21 12:18:46 DocScrutinizer: IF you have an OLED display and can power efficiently flash a small area of it for notifications - much of hte justification for the multicolour LED goes away. Jun 21 12:19:06 ShadowJK: Reading Gizmodo? Jun 21 12:19:11 ShadowJK, well pretty is in the eye of the beholder ;) Jun 21 12:19:22 SpeedEvil, well if you have a controller than can do it autonmously like on N900, so you avoid CPU wakeups to do the flashing :P Jun 21 12:19:31 ShadowJK: indeed. Jun 21 12:19:46 RST38h, nope, I entered nokiaconnection.net in browser, and that took me to "swipe.nokia.com" Jun 21 12:19:46 In principle, that could be onboard the display Jun 21 12:19:53 trings ape-algo | grep nand -> nand=total-device-destruction Jun 21 12:19:53 I haven't seen any reactions yet Jun 21 12:19:58 You absolutely don't want to do this on the CPU Jun 21 12:19:59 * ShadowJK wasn't quoting Jun 21 12:20:06 SpeedEvil: for one like N900's for sure Jun 21 12:20:17 ShadowJK: I have checked some on Engadget and they looked suspisiously positive Jun 21 12:20:33 RST38h, this is because it look like an iPhone Jun 21 12:20:34 RST38h, that's because their overlord Eldar told them to, surely Jun 21 12:20:38 ShadowJK: Of course, Gizmodo is back to its "it is not apple and not microsoft so it is a zombie os" again Jun 21 12:20:58 ShadowJK: No, eldar's sphincter has failed as of this morning Jun 21 12:20:59 el-reg wasn't much better Jun 21 12:21:18 ShadowJK: He is literally oozing shit about the poor device Jun 21 12:21:34 hey where are details. This site is just telling me stupid things like "Dolby 5.1". Wtf, I want to know if it plays matroska Jun 21 12:21:40 link? Jun 21 12:21:44 ShadowJK: Does not Jun 21 12:21:47 But a moment... Jun 21 12:21:51 http://press.nokia.com/wp-content/uploads/mediaplugin/doc/1-nokia-n9-data-sheet.pdf Jun 21 12:21:58 http://swipe.nokia.com/features/ Jun 21 12:22:02 the task navigator and app launching is waay too webos3 ;) Jun 21 12:22:03 ShadowJK: Follow links from here: http://abbra.livejournal.com/174842.html Jun 21 12:22:08 ShadowJK: Ignore the text Jun 21 12:22:15 "combine your email accounts into one inbox" <- oh jesus, the email client is worse than before Jun 21 12:22:26 hehe Jun 21 12:22:30 ShadowJK: Jun 21 12:22:32 !! Jun 21 12:22:37 ShadowJK: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/Device_specifications/N9-00/ Jun 21 12:23:03 matroska supported Jun 21 12:23:09 vi__, I interpreted that as "We thought sorting email into folders was stupid, so we piled all your email into one big pile to make it easier to find!" :-) Jun 21 12:23:10 shadowjk: hey, it plays vorbis. Jun 21 12:23:12 Doc: really? Jun 21 12:23:21 shadowjk: that should account for something! Jun 21 12:23:25 RST38h: says that page Jun 21 12:23:34 BTW, returning to earth, has anyone else noticed that many Maemo5 games no longer play audio? Jun 21 12:23:41 Video Playback Formats 3GPP formats (H.263), ASF, AVI, Flash Video, H.264/AVC, Matroska, MPEG-4, VC-1, WMV 9, <-- hmm Matroska is there Jun 21 12:23:56 RST38H: I'd have noticed... Jun 21 12:24:01 RST38h: for example? Jun 21 12:24:09 even does flac and ogg Jun 21 12:24:13 Gweled, Hex-a-pop, TecnoballZ all fail to play sound Jun 21 12:24:13 is not amoled prone to show ghost images after a 1 or so? Jun 21 12:24:29 edheldil: no Jun 21 12:24:37 1 year Jun 21 12:24:38 >>hmm Matroska is there Jun 21 12:24:38 I hope it will support embedded ASS Jun 21 12:24:48 edheldil: yes Jun 21 12:24:54 eh :) Jun 21 12:24:57 "Body made of one piece with smooth shapes" <- external battery back required. Jun 21 12:24:58 ah 1 year Jun 21 12:25:11 edheldil: thats ok, support is only 1 year. Jun 21 12:25:12 The camera and Navigation features, if true this thime, look just awesome :-) Jun 21 12:25:27 ShadowJK; Surely it is all a false impression! Jun 21 12:25:27 indeed, cam looks good Jun 21 12:25:48 the micro sim thing is annoying though Jun 21 12:25:59 Webkit2 <- I guess nobody can figure out how to make firefox stop focus stealing (killing VKBDs) Jun 21 12:26:03 someone needs to shoot apple for that Jun 21 12:26:11 webkit is nice Jun 21 12:26:13 people can just cut up regular SIM's Jun 21 12:26:22 vi__: at that pricetag they can affor to swap the sceen/device once, until warranty expirs Jun 21 12:26:22 shadowjk: haha Jun 21 12:26:29 or do regular sims actually fit back into normal devices as well? Jun 21 12:26:46 ruskie: If you cut up the SIM, there are adaptors to take you back Jun 21 12:26:47 and why isn't there built in SyncML??? Jun 21 12:27:03 (micro sim) I'm already wondering if there are adapters like for uSD Jun 21 12:27:15 SpeedEvil: :-D Jun 21 12:27:19 My operator will refuse me micro sim for sure Jun 21 12:27:23 and I'm guessing my cellco will be willing to rape me for the price of the microsim Jun 21 12:27:31 DocScrutinizer: Dealextreme has one Jun 21 12:27:48 A little cookie cutter to go big to little, and an adaptor the other way Jun 21 12:28:12 I'm a bit reluctant to cut up my ancient (crackable) SIM anyway Jun 21 12:28:22 DocScrutinizer: not really good design though Jun 21 12:28:40 fun 11eur for a sim -> microsim replacement Jun 21 12:29:06 What about h264, just baseline profile again, or does it do main and high too? Jun 21 12:29:15 Hmm...no HDMI again. Jun 21 12:29:19 ruskie: get a cutter and two beer Jun 21 12:29:28 docscrutinizer: like if you are going to get the device! ;) Jun 21 12:29:33 Why the hell skip on HDMI? Jun 21 12:29:34 * ShadowJK has about 3 spare sims to try with though.. Jun 21 12:29:43 or have you been indoctrinated on capacitive already? Jun 21 12:29:56 javispedro: konttori suggested I should get one Jun 21 12:30:07 omg Jun 21 12:30:09 javispedro: Just get used to capacitive Jun 21 12:30:10 javispedro: even though I'm not at all excited Jun 21 12:30:12 is the battery swappable or not? Jun 21 12:30:20 and you accepted without complaining Jun 21 12:30:20 ! Jun 21 12:30:21 not easily Jun 21 12:30:25 and apparently I can't take a combo double sim with one card being a microsim... Jun 21 12:30:29 Oh he complained Jun 21 12:30:33 * MohammadAG whistles http://i52.tinypic.com/14b2edu.jpg Jun 21 12:30:56 Mohammad: yeah. Jun 21 12:31:02 mohammandag: qt sdk... Jun 21 12:31:43 probably has some device headers Jun 21 12:31:53 MohammadAG: hehe, get coffe, tea or whatever you usually use for those occasions Jun 21 12:32:02 * javispedro ponders whther trying to get some sleep or get up and get into the computer and update sbox... Jun 21 12:32:23 I might as well get the two sims - one number package... that way I can cut one up and the other leave normally Jun 21 12:32:45 ShadowJK: backside secured with screws Jun 21 12:32:57 no use installing it without a device Jun 21 12:32:58 More importantly, does it have bq27200 Jun 21 12:33:04 hahaha Jun 21 12:33:13 and it's an online installer Jun 21 12:33:20 I'm still waiting to see the first bootlog Jun 21 12:33:22 so devs have to download crap, meh Jun 21 12:33:25 ShadowJK: why don't you chec the kernel.. Jun 21 12:33:29 Mohammad: Doesn't come with an emulator? Jun 21 12:33:43 RST38h, doesn't seem like it Jun 21 12:33:50 mghm Jun 21 12:33:55 libbb5 ? Jun 21 12:33:58 * MohammadAG unzips API references Jun 21 12:34:04 libWHAT? Jun 21 12:34:08 * vi__ unzips pants Jun 21 12:34:15 online installer failed and failed again Jun 21 12:34:27 rlinfati: FOSS? Jun 21 12:34:32 rst38h: sbox does have x86 nokia-binaries. someone mentioned ui does not boot the usual way though Jun 21 12:34:35 or will we have to rely on the bme battery reporting algorithm of int battery_percent { static float percentage; return percentage - (float)rand() / (float) (2^31); Jun 21 12:34:46 Stskeeps, it wasn't in N900 kernel either Jun 21 12:34:47 javispedro, which sbox? Jun 21 12:34:56 harmattan-beta Jun 21 12:35:03 where's that? Jun 21 12:35:22 DocScrutinizer -> related to the "security" framework .... :/ sw cert, etc Jun 21 12:35:22 the url is somewhere on my microb's history.. Jun 21 12:35:33 OUCH Jun 21 12:35:40 javispedro: Good to hear it has still got sbox Jun 21 12:35:48 the n950 doesn't seem that much more powerful than the n900 to be fair... Jun 21 12:35:51 * DocScrutinizer throws up on "security framework" Jun 21 12:36:03 openstand: check the RAM size Jun 21 12:36:09 and the cpu Jun 21 12:36:23 Then remember that low RAM is the single worst performance issue with N900 Jun 21 12:36:23 RST38h: any link to the spec of the ram? Jun 21 12:36:29 libbb5-secbins::SEE_SimLock3Operation :/ Jun 21 12:36:29 openstand: google Jun 21 12:36:52 twice the ram, twice the clock (not for GFX) Jun 21 12:36:54 talking about security fw Jun 21 12:37:00 RST38h: i did google it first i found out it had a 1ghz cpu but that was it Jun 21 12:37:06 theres something called aegisfs Jun 21 12:37:10 and the 4inch cap screen Jun 21 12:37:13 openstand: continue learning to use google. Jun 21 12:37:14 DocScrutinizer: 200mhz gfx clock Jun 21 12:37:19 DocScrutinizer: n900 is 110 Jun 21 12:37:20 I know Jun 21 12:37:24 i suspect this is the same as cryptofs on a palm pre Jun 21 12:37:25 so no, not twice, but ..:P Jun 21 12:37:25 Stskeeps, it s twice :) Jun 21 12:37:28 not twice though Jun 21 12:37:33 not really ... Jun 21 12:37:35 but near Jun 21 12:37:36 :) Jun 21 12:37:41 that is, encrypted drmd storage for "protected" apps and media Jun 21 12:37:47 1GB OF ram? Jun 21 12:37:48 javispedro: does it cover the whole / or just /really-useless-crap-you-buy-from-a-web-store ? Jun 21 12:38:15 rst38h: on a pre, the latter. dunno about harmattan... Jun 21 12:38:27 openstandards, yes. Jun 21 12:38:29 who of the "men in black" is going to pastebin a bootlog of N950 now Jun 21 12:38:31 ? Jun 21 12:38:42 i would like working at nokia Jun 21 12:38:55 s n950 available? Jun 21 12:38:57 radio-wl1273 ? fm radio? Jun 21 12:38:59 He is good. You have to admit he is really good at trolling, this guy. Jun 21 12:39:01 is* Jun 21 12:39:06 RST38h: wireless radio Jun 21 12:39:12 jacekowski, only 250 units Jun 21 12:39:12 rlinfati: WLAN Jun 21 12:39:16 qgil said that they're shipping them now for certain devs Jun 21 12:39:20 (n950s) Jun 21 12:39:26 MohammadAG: where from? Jun 21 12:39:33 mtdswap.ko :) Jun 21 12:39:44 swap's on an mtd? Jun 21 12:39:50 oh shi~ Jun 21 12:39:58 wuuuut Jun 21 12:40:00 It's not funny Jun 21 12:40:03 JoikuSpot_Bouncer.ko Jun 21 12:40:10 rlinfati: note that ramzswap was pretty much extraoficially confirmed by konttory Jun 21 12:40:26 ramzswap + mtdswap? Jun 21 12:40:37 MohammadAG, jacekowski, someone has informed me that there are 250 through meego.com, 250 through developers.nokia.com and a few more for Nokia partners etc. Jun 21 12:40:42 makes sense Jun 21 12:40:43 javispedro, ok... i'm string'ing the flash image :P Jun 21 12:40:51 at least a bit Jun 21 12:40:55 http://paste.ubuntu.com/630386/ <- modules Jun 21 12:41:00 it should't be hard to unpack Jun 21 12:41:06 so no need to string.. Jun 21 12:41:08 Termana, the qgil blog post inform you ? Jun 21 12:41:09 :) Jun 21 12:41:15 Oh, finnish radio presented the news awesomely. They said "We nominate Nokia as 'the weeks winnar' for announcing a phone with an operating system that no longer exists" :-) Jun 21 12:41:25 hhaha Jun 21 12:41:25 khertan, no, someone on one of the channels here :p Jun 21 12:41:34 khertan, they probably read the qgil blog post Jun 21 12:41:35 javispedro: haha Jun 21 12:41:45 JoikuSpot_Bouncer.ko damn Jun 21 12:41:50 javispedro: ok, you got no backscroll I guess Jun 21 12:42:02 MohammadAG: WUT??? Jun 21 12:42:07 docscrutinizer: i'm on n900 Jun 21 12:42:27 well, sleep be damned, lets boot the computer. Jun 21 12:42:28 Supposedly "wifi hotspot" will be preinstalled on N9. I guess that explains joikuspot... Jun 21 12:42:33 javispedro: MohammadAG tried to unlzo it... fail Jun 21 12:42:47 mmc { Jun 21 12:42:47 name = "internal"; Jun 21 12:42:47 partition { Jun 21 12:42:47 size = -1; Jun 21 12:42:47 fs_type = "vfat"; Jun 21 12:42:51 prefix = "mmc2"; Jun 21 12:42:53 partition { Jun 21 12:42:55 size = 4096; Jun 21 12:42:57 options = "preserve"; Jun 21 12:42:59 } Jun 21 12:43:01 partition { Jun 21 12:43:03 size = 2048; Jun 21 12:43:03 ShadowJK: SHAME ON NOKIA Jun 21 12:43:05 fs_type = "ext4"; Jun 21 12:43:07 prefix = "home"; Jun 21 12:43:09 oups Jun 21 12:43:10 khertan, you're a bit late to the party, and use pastebin :p Jun 21 12:43:14 lol Jun 21 12:43:24 cat the other layout file, it has a 4GB / Jun 21 12:43:31 MohammadAG, the pastebin script failed Jun 21 12:43:35 and post direct content Jun 21 12:44:58 I wonder how certain devs already have an N9 (not an N950) Jun 21 12:44:58 Nokia.FaceTracking.... hum Jun 21 12:45:15 MohammadAG, probably only commercial dev Jun 21 12:45:15 khertan, camera thing Jun 21 12:45:17 MohammadAG: Which certain devs? Jun 21 12:45:18 yep Jun 21 12:45:24 MohammadAG: there are PV runs Jun 21 12:45:24 MohammadAG: AFAICT, it's only Nokians so far. Jun 21 12:45:25 i wonder if they will use the wifi chipset as the n900 Jun 21 12:45:28 @janole Jun 21 12:45:37 Gravity developer Jun 21 12:45:42 openstandards, probably not as it supports 802.11n? Jun 21 12:45:58 openstandards, wl1271 Jun 21 12:46:09 indeed Jun 21 12:46:23 Qt 4.7.4 ... interesting Jun 21 12:46:30 at least qml is patched :) Jun 21 12:46:47 didn't we get qt4.7.4 in maemo CSSU until MAG pulled the update? Jun 21 12:47:00 Jaffa: can't you get a bootlog for us? Jun 21 12:47:12 Jaffa: +1 Jun 21 12:47:23 4.7.2, I'll push 4.7.4 when and if we fix raster Jun 21 12:47:25 DocScrutinizer: Me? Jun 21 12:47:29 you Jun 21 12:47:32 I have no device :-( Jun 21 12:47:41 I suppose you know those who do Jun 21 12:47:45 * Jaffa had an N900 before the launch, but no N9 or N950 Jun 21 12:47:56 DocScrutinizer: So do you - frals & achipa are around :-) Jun 21 12:48:11 Jaffa, you was a council member at this time, isn't it ? Jun 21 12:48:12 I didn't even know they had one Jun 21 12:48:23 MAG, hit a dead end? Jun 21 12:48:32 wrt Maemo 6 Jun 21 12:48:32 achipa: ping Jun 21 12:48:42 prong Jun 21 12:48:44 achipa: how's about a bootlog pastebin? Jun 21 12:48:58 wait, the n950 looks sweet Jun 21 12:49:06 achipa: preferrably of both N950 and N9 Jun 21 12:49:09 kerio, more than th n9 ... Jun 21 12:49:12 yeah Jun 21 12:49:15 :) Jun 21 12:49:32 will i be able to buy it? Jun 21 12:49:40 khertan: I was a Council member at the time :-) Jun 21 12:49:41 kerio: NO Jun 21 12:49:44 :( Jun 21 12:49:56 kerio: Yes, but onlyin exchange to your firstborn Jun 21 12:49:57 DocScrutinizer: can't for the N9, will do for the N950 once the first one ships, sry, rules are rules :( Jun 21 12:50:09 fair enough Jun 21 12:50:24 * Jaffa gets an email direct from nokia.com. Unfortunately it's only an early-bird invite to Nokia World 2011 (300 eur discount, so I can get in for "only" 695 euros! *cough*) Jun 21 12:50:29 achipa: wouldn't expect anything different Jun 21 12:50:46 Jaffa, lol Jun 21 12:50:48 DocScrutinizer: minor differences due to BT/NFC Jun 21 12:50:53 MohammadAG: image linkie? Jun 21 12:51:00 I see Jun 21 12:51:03 achipa, and battery Jun 21 12:51:11 and screen Jun 21 12:51:12 :) Jun 21 12:51:12 Jaffa: At least you have not got an invite to the Microsoft app store like me! Jun 21 12:51:13 achipa: thanks Jun 21 12:51:14 khertan: I'd hoped it was a "your black, 1GB, N950 with added NFC goodness is on its way" ;-) Jun 21 12:51:16 @mag: http://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/db230178-aa63-4c73-ba7f-20930da13cad/Nokia_N950_OneClickFlashers.html Jun 21 12:51:39 khertan: I would assume it's still pretty much the same power control stuff, regardless of different physical battery (due to different casing, obviously) Jun 21 12:51:42 RST38h: Microsoft invites everyone =) Jun 21 12:51:42 Jaffa, héhé ... indeed the n950 black look awesome compared to this cutted n9 Jun 21 12:52:07 achipa, oh different battery could be different control ... Jun 21 12:52:08 javispedro: no, just Nokia dev programs members Jun 21 12:52:10 MAG, hit a brick wall wrt extracting the images? Jun 21 12:52:16 khertan: The black N950 looks awesome compared with the silver one Jun 21 12:52:25 khertan: could, yes, but I don't think they are Jun 21 12:52:25 Hurrian, nah, just lost interest :p Jun 21 12:52:28 RST38h: I got several invitations to their event in MWC Jun 21 12:52:32 ah, kden Jun 21 12:52:36 achipa, don't know ... didn't have device :) Jun 21 12:52:37 Although, bigger battery & NFC are tempting on the N9 Jun 21 12:52:37 i'll look into it tomorrow Jun 21 12:52:41 RST38h: I bet no one comes to their events =) Jun 21 12:52:46 Jaffa, no keyboard Jun 21 12:52:48 more interested in N950 applications being processed :p Jun 21 12:52:54 khertan: Indeed Jun 21 12:52:57 MohammadAG: Aye Jun 21 12:53:04 Jaffa: that one is one sexy pieve Jun 21 12:53:07 Jaffa, keyboard the big stopper Jun 21 12:53:08 * Jaffa has stuff ready (not much, but stuff) Jun 21 12:53:15 javispedro: Some poeple do, do not underestimate the power of money =) Jun 21 12:53:16 achipa: "pieve"? Jun 21 12:53:20 nfc? Jun 21 12:53:24 piece Jun 21 12:53:27 openstandards: Near Field Communication Jun 21 12:53:28 Jaffa: bigger batery? Jun 21 12:53:28 Jaffa, if i can't get an n950 i ll not bought a n9 Jun 21 12:53:30 Jaffa: n950 battery is replaceable-ish Jun 21 12:53:33 btw, the sbox harmattan sdk is here: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com Jun 21 12:53:36 javispedro: haven't you seen all those .net developers complaining about MS cutting .net from wp8? Jun 21 12:53:38 achipa: Ah, the black N950s? Jun 21 12:53:42 achipa, screwdriver needed, not included eh? :P Jun 21 12:53:45 I rather have 2x 1350mAh than 1x1450 Jun 21 12:53:55 javispedro, if you successfull install it Jun 21 12:53:59 MohammadAG: you unscrew when you get it and throw away the screws Jun 21 12:54:01 javispedro, no download resume Jun 21 12:54:07 in about 3 days, you'll figure out how to open it Jun 21 12:54:09 achipa, lol Jun 21 12:54:15 RST38h: told ya they were serious with that html5 thing in windows8 Jun 21 12:54:29 unscrew? Jun 21 12:54:29 two weeks later, you'll be able to swat a battery in total darkness, a la gun-training in the marines :) Jun 21 12:54:30 khertan: pfft, I'm a sbox1 guru -- when people disabled vdsos, I fixed glibc. Jun 21 12:54:33 don't you mean hammer Jun 21 12:54:36 javispedro: only for the desktop though Jun 21 12:54:37 s/swat/swap/ Jun 21 12:54:37 achipa meant: two weeks later, you'll be able to swap a battery in total darkness, a la gun-training in the marines :) Jun 21 12:54:39 anyone interested in coding a gecko based browser for the N9? I hate webkit :p Jun 21 12:54:51 javispedro: wait until they axe win32 completely and hear the poor suckers howl Jun 21 12:54:56 javispedro, yeah but before fixing things you need to get it :) Jun 21 12:54:59 webkit <3 Jun 21 12:55:02 MohammadAG: Fennec should work, kind of :) Jun 21 12:55:12 Just wait for Opera =) Jun 21 12:55:24 kerio: N950 is not an unibody and has screws (phew) Jun 21 12:55:24 night guys, gonna read the logs in the morning :) Jun 21 12:56:24 * vi__ is horny to pilfer ovi-maps binary for n900 Jun 21 12:56:32 khertan: not that slow, getting 600KiB/sec out of it Jun 21 12:56:41 achipa: only noobs use screwdrivers Jun 21 12:56:41 lucky you are Jun 21 12:56:43 20ko/s Jun 21 12:56:49 so what's the word from those who should know, about USB hostmode on that thing? Jun 21 12:56:56 DocScrutinizer: nope Jun 21 12:56:57 RST38h: opera is already there, they already made a meego package Jun 21 12:57:05 kerio: still don't have philips-headed teeth just yet Jun 21 12:57:15 achipa: real men use a hammer Jun 21 12:57:37 RST38h: those opera guys do put work on their staments of support. Jun 21 12:57:46 kerio: yes. only if they don't want to use the device afterwards :) Jun 21 12:57:51 stupid python script Jun 21 12:57:55 MohammadAG, isn't Firefox open source? Jun 21 12:57:59 actually, real men use a blender Jun 21 12:58:01 IOW: is N9(50) more like N810 or more like N900 regarding USB? Jun 21 12:58:06 mece, the UI sucks on a mobile device Jun 21 12:58:22 MohammadAG, but firefox for n900 I mean Jun 21 12:58:27 fennec's not *that* bad Jun 21 12:58:35 MohammadAG, right, fennec Jun 21 12:58:46 microB performs better imo Jun 21 12:58:51 microB performs better Jun 21 12:58:54 the fennec UI isn't that bad, but its memory use makes me doubt it'll run well even on 1G :P Jun 21 12:58:55 MohammadAG, yes, but that one is not open source Jun 21 12:59:02 this webkit thingy is way zippier, though there is a tradeoff Jun 21 12:59:16 webkit > gecko Jun 21 12:59:17 and of course if the memory helps in any single place, it's the browser Jun 21 12:59:17 achipa, you have the device right? Jun 21 12:59:17 true story Jun 21 12:59:27 kerio, we need both though Jun 21 12:59:28 mece: hipothethically, I might :) Jun 21 12:59:32 achipa: is the n950 made of dreams? Jun 21 12:59:49 javispedro: Opera people are indeed wonderful Jun 21 12:59:54 kerio, no it's rainbows and transsexual midgets Jun 21 12:59:55 Something i didn't understand is why there isn't any webkit browser based on qt ... Jun 21 12:59:59 should be easy to do Jun 21 13:00:04 khertan: like, say arora Jun 21 13:00:07 even better Jun 21 13:00:09 RST38h, the opera people are proper nerds :D Jun 21 13:00:10 arora ? Jun 21 13:00:12 i hope nokia have sorted out the problem with the mini usb port coming loose Jun 21 13:00:18 the n950 is people! Jun 21 13:00:22 khertan: isn't Konqueror based on qt? Jun 21 13:00:33 javispedro: transsexual midgets are people too Jun 21 13:00:38 khertan: http://code.google.com/p/arora/ Jun 21 13:00:54 it's actually a fairly good thin webkit browser... Jun 21 13:00:54 micro usb Jun 21 13:01:00 that's still webkit Jun 21 13:01:10 mece, and what's wrong with that? Jun 21 13:01:15 openstandards: micro, but yes, I hope so as well Jun 21 13:01:15 openstandards: you'll sooner rip out the screen than the USB on this one Jun 21 13:01:15 the webkit browsers work well Jun 21 13:01:17 mece: iPhone uses it so it must be good! Jun 21 13:01:18 * RST38h hides Jun 21 13:01:31 well webkit *is* lighter than gecko Jun 21 13:01:34 with a smaller footprint that gecko crap Jun 21 13:01:46 sorry ShadowJK, micro usb... Jun 21 13:01:50 ruskie, gecko isn't crap ! Jun 21 13:01:55 though knowing you roughnecks, you *will* lose the N9's port cover though :) Jun 21 13:01:57 always has been and still is Jun 21 13:01:59 I like webkit, I'm not complaining. Jun 21 13:02:04 maybe the future will change that Jun 21 13:02:10 rekonq is a nice browser Jun 21 13:02:22 achipa, didn't support kinetic scrolling :) Jun 21 13:02:29 * ShadowJK wonders what charging chip is in N9, and whether the phantom resistance between charger chip and VBatt that's present on N900 has been fixed Jun 21 13:02:31 no one mentioned if the N9 had flash 10 Jun 21 13:02:33 * MohammadAG hides Jun 21 13:02:41 I've managed to loose the tiny metal bit that together with the tiny magnet holds the n900 stand closed... Jun 21 13:02:44 achipa, i should try to do one ... should be something that can be targeted by qml Jun 21 13:02:45 http://www.google.co.uk/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:NOK - Ok - prediction is 6.3 in an hour. Jun 21 13:02:51 Mohammad: it does not Jun 21 13:02:52 MohammadAG, troll face Jun 21 13:02:53 achipa: good aftermarket Jun 21 13:02:54 MohammadAG: no flash in current builds Jun 21 13:02:54 oh, increasing! Jun 21 13:02:55 s/by/with Jun 21 13:02:58 MohammadAG, well about 1000 people have complained about that. Jun 21 13:03:10 And for once, I don't mind Jun 21 13:03:12 MohammadAG, it doesn't matter, even if it has, a week after you get an N9, your favourite site starts requiring flash 11, and Nokia will never ever update it. Jun 21 13:03:13 I'm a little bummed because I wanted to steal it for MeeGo CE... Jun 21 13:03:17 achipa: btw, does it support file browsing via bt? Jun 21 13:03:17 Flash that is Jun 21 13:03:24 LOLOL Jun 21 13:03:34 RST38h: no idea, didn't try Jun 21 13:03:40 "Nokia (NYSE: NOK) will launch its new N9 Microsoft (NASDAQ: MSFT) Windows-powered smartphone later this year" Jun 21 13:03:44 ShadowJK, eyup Jun 21 13:03:50 javispedro, lol Jun 21 13:03:53 javispedro, lmao Jun 21 13:03:54 javispedro: source? Jun 21 13:04:01 javispedro, wherE? Jun 21 13:04:02 RST38h, vodka :p Jun 21 13:04:10 RST38h: random wallst analyst blog: http://247wallst.com/2011/06/21/nokia-launches-windows-phone-into-smartphone-storms-with-aid-from-microsoft/ Jun 21 13:04:18 eeek Jun 21 13:04:22 quick, everyone, flood comments! Jun 21 13:04:26 haha Jun 21 13:04:26 quoted by google finance though Jun 21 13:04:26 haha Jun 21 13:04:31 SpeedEvil: jinx Jun 21 13:04:43 ~seen Venemo Jun 21 13:04:49 venemo <~Timur@fedora/Venemo> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 5d 15h 25m 41s ago, saying: 'user0, yeah, I did need to get my device to R&D mode when I used the rescue initrd'. Jun 21 13:04:51 SpeedEvil, so you predict a 4 cent increase from opening? :p Jun 21 13:04:53 LOOOL how embarassing. Jun 21 13:04:54 lol ... analyst Jun 21 13:04:57 damn no comments on that one. Jun 21 13:05:03 Hi! does anyone here knows if N9 will have a rootable meego as in the N900? or we will have to hack it for that? Jun 21 13:05:03 I like the picture too.. Jun 21 13:05:04 mece, no comment Jun 21 13:05:05 haha Jun 21 13:05:14 Harmattan SDK failing to install Jun 21 13:05:21 MohammadAG: where? Jun 21 13:05:22 MohammadAG, failed to start qemu Jun 21 13:05:25 What about this then: http://9to5mac.com/2011/06/20/nokia-released-doomed-meego-based-n9-heavily-based-on-apple/ Jun 21 13:05:28 in qtcreator Jun 21 13:05:28 URL says it all Jun 21 13:05:30 ;( Jun 21 13:05:31 the_lord, From what I've heard, yes. Jun 21 13:05:36 no, failed to install scratchbox packages Jun 21 13:05:46 mece: yes what? Jun 21 13:05:49 MohammadAG, oh ... failed to download them Jun 21 13:05:54 Jaffa: "Apple Intelligence" is the subtitle. An oxymoron! Jun 21 13:05:57 mece: yes, we will have to hack it? Jun 21 13:06:19 Jaffa: Title seems to indicate that they have simply copied Gizmodo article Jun 21 13:06:36 hum ... no alarmd backend Jun 21 13:06:45 the_lord, it's as difficult as it was on the N900 is what I hear (means it's easy and doesn't need to be "hacked") Jun 21 13:07:06 mece: nice! I'll be getting my hands on it then Jun 21 13:07:31 "Three new touch screen models based on S40 were announced, all called C2, two of which support dual-SIMs." <- srsly, stop doing that Jun 21 13:07:34 Termana: Opening is 5.85 isn't it? Jun 21 13:07:36 no seriously can i buy a n950? Jun 21 13:07:43 or is it reserved for devs? Jun 21 13:07:45 kerio, I want to buy one too :( Jun 21 13:07:48 and they said no :( Jun 21 13:07:49 kerio: devs Jun 21 13:07:52 why? Jun 21 13:07:54 this is bullshit Jun 21 13:08:03 nobody wants to develop for meego handset anyway Jun 21 13:08:08 kerio: it specifically says - 'Anyone can buy it except Kerio'. Jun 21 13:08:09 kerio: Eh? Jun 21 13:08:13 i wonder if i can get a mate to get me one :) Jun 21 13:08:18 kerio: You seem to be frothing at the mouth Jun 21 13:08:36 kerio, arent you a developer? Jun 21 13:08:45 hes actually working for nokia, part of the old symbian team Jun 21 13:08:57 the_lord: you're aware Nokia published the SDK for N9 today, are you? Jun 21 13:08:59 shit. I've got to go. Good thing I came to work today... Jun 21 13:09:04 http://i.imgur.com/XZ6NK.jpg Jun 21 13:09:07 mece: i'm a math student! Jun 21 13:09:08 Meanwhile at a standards commitee: http://www.softwarequalityconnection.com/2011/06/the-biggest-changes-in-c11-and-why-you-should-care/ Jun 21 13:09:16 oh there 4.5G icon in the theme Jun 21 13:09:18 kerio, doesn't mean you can't develop. Jun 21 13:09:19 huhu Jun 21 13:09:23 mece: no, he is just a troll Jun 21 13:09:27 haha Jun 21 13:09:28 ok Jun 21 13:09:30 I need to try that SDK out when I get back home Jun 21 13:09:37 well. anyway I go no work done today. Damn you nokia! Jun 21 13:09:40 bye everyone Jun 21 13:09:57 heading off to work as well Jun 21 13:09:59 Wave mece. Jun 21 13:10:05 o/ Jun 21 13:10:06 yes, do not download the sdk as of now. leave all the bandwidth to me! Jun 21 13:10:12 DocScrutinizer: yes, but I'm not aware in how is that related with my question Jun 21 13:10:18 RST38h: i doubt nokia will give me a n950, even if i start coding like crazy Jun 21 13:10:27 which makes me a sad panda Jun 21 13:10:39 the_lord: I'm not sure what is the meaning in "rooting meego" Jun 21 13:10:51 hum ... a youtube icon Jun 21 13:11:00 khertan, yes it has a ton of sharing Jun 21 13:11:00 vodaphone, skype Jun 21 13:11:12 gtalk Jun 21 13:11:13 DocScrutinizer: Nokia could launch a Meego sandbox with the N9, as in android Jun 21 13:11:21 firefox icon Jun 21 13:11:38 errrr :-x Jun 21 13:11:48 lol Jun 21 13:11:56 googling this aegisfs thing Jun 21 13:12:05 lists some pastebins with output of df -h and the like :) Jun 21 13:12:06 khertan: But WebKit based browser Jun 21 13:12:30 the icon name is firefox Jun 21 13:12:31 javispedro: Presumably used for securing directories using Aegis from the rest of the system? Jun 21 13:12:49 Jaffa: you know anything about it? I understand it is a pre's cryptofs clone? Jun 21 13:12:59 shazam icon Jun 21 13:13:00 any specs on n950? same as n9? Jun 21 13:13:13 Aranel: no bluetooth, different case Jun 21 13:13:14 an icon for need for speed shift Jun 21 13:13:14 javispedro: OMG, so it's another NIH/"proprietary" Nokia crap? Jun 21 13:13:21 Aranel: no NFC, rather Jun 21 13:13:31 DocScrutinizer: nah, this is security fw thing. the pre one was propietary also. Jun 21 13:13:39 an gtracing icon Jun 21 13:13:42 Aranel: different case, keyboard, display different, bigger, no carl zeiss, no warranty Jun 21 13:13:44 n9 has bt 4.0 and nfc...larger battery too Jun 21 13:13:54 but no keyboard Jun 21 13:14:01 yea :( Jun 21 13:14:06 4.0? :P Jun 21 13:14:08 Aranel: http://pastebin.com/0SWqx8JL Jun 21 13:14:12 and rg11 gold Jun 21 13:14:14 DocScrutinizer: from looking at the df -h pastebins IMs are stored on aegisfs, so it is probably "user" security Jun 21 13:14:15 ... Jun 21 13:14:18 the only thing n950 has better is hardware keyboard Jun 21 13:14:21 s/gold/golf Jun 21 13:14:28 kerio: If you are also rich panda, you can buy an N9! Jun 21 13:14:30 12MP cam in N950 adaik Jun 21 13:14:31 so it ll be delivered with some game Jun 21 13:14:32 :< so they actually wanted to scare away end-users from n950 lol Jun 21 13:14:34 afaik even Jun 21 13:14:40 MohammadAG, 8Mp Jun 21 13:14:51 RST38h: i want a physical keyboard dammit Jun 21 13:14:51 the_lord: eh? Jun 21 13:15:02 kerio: You can buy a keyboard separately! Jun 21 13:15:09 ...not the point here Jun 21 13:15:09 khertan, sure? I remember the 1st revision had a 12MP cam Jun 21 13:15:12 i do have a stowaway keyboard Jun 21 13:15:19 which is totally bawss Jun 21 13:15:34 MohammadAG, the flasher release note say 8Mp for both Jun 21 13:15:50 I don't have 3 hands to use an external keyboard Jun 21 13:16:01 ShadowJK: soon you will! join the cult! Jun 21 13:16:11 you will also lose your fingernails if you do Jun 21 13:16:18 but believe me it is worth it. multitouchzzz!!! Jun 21 13:16:21 RST38h, http://t.co/Fz6TT9z <<< and this Jun 21 13:16:32 nice html5 support out of the box Jun 21 13:16:38 so multitouch means the thing will never know where I touched Jun 21 13:16:48 "N950 supports Bluetooth version 2.1+EDR, whereas N9 supports version 4.0" Jun 21 13:16:57 it will know where steve jobs is touching now, which is all that matters. Jun 21 13:17:01 huh o.O Jun 21 13:17:12 DocScrutinizer, javispedro, Jaffa, anyone I left off, RE: Ageis - http://www.slideshare.net/peterschneider/maemo-6-platform-security Jun 21 13:17:25 javispedro, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013AX62K/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=1278548962&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0761121102&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0SW16P1WPB4JYJPSJ0K3 + http://www.amazon.com/Rii-Wireless-Keyboard-Touchpad-RT-MWK01/dp/B003UE52ME Jun 21 13:17:29 Termana: \o/ Jun 21 13:17:30 ^the perfect n9 Jun 21 13:17:43 :) Jun 21 13:17:49 kerio: kerio==scotland? Jun 21 13:18:00 * SpeedEvil == scotland. Jun 21 13:18:02 ¿qué? Jun 21 13:18:03 i wonder if we'lll see what iOS does when it detects email fields in a webpage Jun 21 13:18:34 kerio: spaniards usually use "¿cómo?" (that is, "how come?" instead of "what?") Jun 21 13:18:46 openstandards: The N900 supported , FWIW Jun 21 13:19:12 SpeedEvil: SpeedEvil==edinburgh? Jun 21 13:19:33 Jaffa, he said EMAIL fields. I wonder if IOS automatically fills in your own email address in every webform it finds on the internets to make receiving spam easier and simpler. Jun 21 13:19:41 that's a weird equality relationship Jun 21 13:19:54 khertan: abuse of scotch tape is not approved by steve jobs. you are banished from the apple cult! Jun 21 13:19:56 Jaffa: it does? never noticed it as i use keyboard :) Jun 21 13:20:05 SpeedEvil: are you that man I saw in his underpants with soup in his beard texting on a n900 on prioncess street? Jun 21 13:20:21 DocScrutinizer: nokia could launch the N9 with a sandbox so you can't install openoffice if it's not in ovi store, for example Jun 21 13:20:27 FACK!!! I knew it: security framework, aegis, bullsh*t. Now we got it: TWO DEVICEMODES Jun 21 13:20:34 vi__: No, I've not been on Princes street recently. Jun 21 13:20:38 DocScrutinizer, get ready for it Jun 21 13:20:42 DRM talk GO! Jun 21 13:20:45 DocScrutinizer: that was known though. Jun 21 13:20:46 vi__: No, Fife. Jun 21 13:20:54 SpeedEvil: ouch Jun 21 13:20:59 DocScrutinizer: then you would have to root it Jun 21 13:21:04 DocScrutinizer: however, aegisfs seems to be a fuse filesystem, like the pre. it can be broken. Jun 21 13:21:13 the_lord: we all know about that Jun 21 13:21:33 DocScrutinizer: that was my question, will Nokia do that? Jun 21 13:21:36 the_lord, you do not need to "root" it as you put it. Jun 21 13:21:50 Your mixing up terms and using things incorrectly Jun 21 13:21:58 You just put it in open mode Jun 21 13:22:04 the_lord: no, they do sth way more evil, they implement security framework Jun 21 13:22:19 Termana: so, "open mode" is the right term? Jun 21 13:22:39 * vi__ vi__ has flashbacks to symbian signed Jun 21 13:22:42 ShadowJK: I know what he said, I'm saying that *similar* sort of thing (Mobile Safari also auto-identifies phone numbers) can be done on Maemo 5 Jun 21 13:22:44 OHH GOOOD! Jun 21 13:23:07 the_lord, as long as we assume they have implemented it how they have described Jun 21 13:23:22 In open mode, no more games, comercial apps, Ovi store, comes-with-music (... dialer, messaging, you name it) Jun 21 13:23:37 in protected mode, no own kernel, no own apps... Jun 21 13:23:53 DocScrutinizer: sonsofbitches Jun 21 13:24:13 DocScrutinizer: Is this assumption - or documented somewhere? Jun 21 13:24:24 I guess I don't want tou touch that devel device Jun 21 13:24:39 SpeedEvil: http://www.slideshare.net/peterschneider/maemo-6-platform-security Jun 21 13:24:44 :/ Jun 21 13:25:13 DocScrutinizer: why? dev device probably has no closed mode at all Jun 21 13:25:14 they learned their lessons how to kill FOSS Jun 21 13:25:24 it would be a waste of resources. Jun 21 13:25:37 javispedro: I CAN NOT support this sort of BULLSHIT Jun 21 13:26:07 DocScrutinizer: but it comes with music. Jun 21 13:26:09 any information on when & price for N9 yet? Jun 21 13:26:12 I'm unsure. Jun 21 13:26:20 DocScrutinizer: we knew it Jun 21 13:26:25 In principle - given best case - it could be OK. Jun 21 13:26:26 me, I'm waiting to see what is lost in open mode. Jun 21 13:26:28 Aranel, Q3/Q4 2011, no price yet AFAIK Jun 21 13:26:39 Termana: thank you ^^ Jun 21 13:26:40 If - for example - we can push patches to the kernel and get them accepted. Jun 21 13:26:44 SpeedEvil: it's NOT Jun 21 13:26:54 And there is some free and relatively easy way to get apps signed. Jun 21 13:26:54 if more than 1% of the applications and/or maps are lost, deal-killer. sorry. Jun 21 13:26:58 DocScrutinizer: if you have root access, you can remove security framework :P Jun 21 13:27:05 if 100% of the music store contents are lost, I don't care. Jun 21 13:27:10 the_lord: BAS Jun 21 13:27:15 BS even Jun 21 13:27:58 DocScrutinizer: won't be able to root it at all? Jun 21 13:28:21 geeze! rootit doesn't mean anything! Jun 21 13:28:29 you can only switch to open mode afaik Jun 21 13:28:39 it's a one way trip, if you do it you can't go back Jun 21 13:28:40 it is just a dumb word like 'tether' or 'apps' Jun 21 13:28:51 I could be wrong, but I've heard that once Jun 21 13:29:06 hey chaps Jun 21 13:29:19 is there any specific website with info about the N9 & N950? Jun 21 13:29:20 lardman: no you cannot buy an n950 Jun 21 13:29:21 MohammadAG, at maemo summit 2009 they talk of easy switch Jun 21 13:29:23 you got TWO device modes, an *open* one where you can do what you want - except run any app that requires *protected* mode, which probably will be the complete set of core apps Jun 21 13:29:25 just require reboot Jun 21 13:29:33 MohammadAG, if it is the same security framework (which, mind you, no one has actually knows that it definitely is), it can be switched back and forth Jun 21 13:29:37 err, maemo summit? Jun 21 13:29:44 I don't have an internet connection at home atm, so was going to scrape some pages and read them later on (house moving) Jun 21 13:29:49 vi__: when i mean root it i mean no root access... Jun 21 13:29:50 that's kinda irrelevant now, MeeGo didn't exist back then Jun 21 13:29:52 vi__: how does one apply for one? Jun 21 13:30:02 lardman: you cannot Jun 21 13:30:07 good god Jun 21 13:30:08 yes he can. Jun 21 13:30:08 lardman: you have missed the boat Jun 21 13:30:08 MohammadAG, yeah ... but it s not true MeeGo ... it s Maemo on top of MeeGo Jun 21 13:30:09 :) Jun 21 13:30:12 http://meego.com/node/add/device-application/581 lardman Jun 21 13:30:13 MohammadAG: indeed you can't switch back to protected unless you reboot Jun 21 13:30:30 I don't understand why it can't be like ni the N900, both "modes" at the same time living happily ever after Jun 21 13:30:36 DocScrutinizer, oh good (in a way), I thought you can't go back to protected mode Jun 21 13:30:49 the_lord, there isn't any security framework :) Jun 21 13:30:55 khertan, take out MeeGo and maemo fails then Jun 21 13:31:12 take out maemo and MeeGo failed on Handset too Jun 21 13:31:14 MohammadAG: as soon as openmode got enabled, the complete hw is "tainted" Jun 21 13:31:24 you need reboot to reset to clean state Jun 21 13:31:33 thanks MohammadAG Jun 21 13:31:53 DocScrutinizer, tainted ? so you can change hardware case color ? Jun 21 13:31:54 :) Jun 21 13:32:10 DocScrutinizer, that's a very hazy way to say it that has a potential for confusion. Jun 21 13:32:32 khertan: tainted, not painted Jun 21 13:33:11 khertan: that's where I come in and say, in two months after they start selling, there will be a hack to get both modes working (that's what android'ers call rooting, and ios'ers call jailbreak) Jun 21 13:33:22 DocScrutinizer, read to fast :) Jun 21 13:33:50 the_lord: you bet there won't Jun 21 13:34:01 DocScrutinizer: why? Jun 21 13:34:14 the_lord: security framework has been evaluated and improved for many years now Jun 21 13:34:50 and it's based on a cryptokex in hw bootloader and an umbreakable chain of trust from boot til app Jun 21 13:34:56 DocScrutinizer: I'll die trying then :) Jun 21 13:35:16 you're welcome Jun 21 13:35:50 I can't think of anything I'd love more to hear than "security framework got hacked" Jun 21 13:37:25 'security framework was removed due to a policy decision by Elop, who announced today that all new nokia phones are to be meego, while naked, bodypainted into the likeness of a penguin.' Jun 21 13:38:48 SpeedEvil, source ? Jun 21 13:38:58 not even that, as it wouldn't help for future cases when anybody else thinks DRM and "security" are a good idea Jun 21 13:39:13 khertan: Some russian blogger. Jun 21 13:39:16 SpeedEvil, i doubt... i think he ll more lock up the thing to say win phone is more open Jun 21 13:39:17 [15:28] http://meego.com/node/add/device-application/581 <- is that n950 ? Jun 21 13:39:30 trx - yes Jun 21 13:39:58 can anyone who wants to develop for meego apply? Jun 21 13:40:09 harmattan-meego-arm-sysroot-1122-slim harmattan-nokia-meego-arm-sysroot-1122-slim :S what is the diference ? Jun 21 13:40:16 trx, http://www.nokiablog.ch/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/326932798.jpg << should be the device Jun 21 13:40:22 trx - I assume so yes. Jun 21 13:40:44 thats nice thanks Jun 21 13:40:46 628M vs 383M Jun 21 13:40:55 i can't believe they assigned an ex-microsoft guy to a company which has been interested in producing linux devices for a number of years... Jun 21 13:41:22 one is meego ... second is meego + preinstalled soft like need for speed shift Jun 21 13:41:30 and thing like that ... Jun 21 13:41:35 but it s supposition Jun 21 13:41:37 s Jun 21 13:43:23 MohammadAG: so what happens then? You hit save and then it's gone? Jun 21 13:44:10 javispedro: aegis manifest file... PFFFF there it is Jun 21 13:44:28 lardman, no. You hit save and there it is in your face if you need to edit it Jun 21 13:45:01 DocScrutinizer: where are you reading this stuff? Jun 21 13:45:15 vi__: http://www.slideshare.net/peterschneider/maemo-6-platform-security Jun 21 13:45:20 Termana: ah, and for everyone else to read too? Jun 21 13:45:28 lardman, no Jun 21 13:45:47 Just you and whoever is making the decision on who they go out to, I suppose Jun 21 13:45:52 ok cool Jun 21 13:46:02 https://meego.com/users/lardman/track Jun 21 13:46:05 Plus anyone who has access to the database but anyway :p Jun 21 13:46:12 and that was an N9 dev kit applicatioon, which we presume will provide an N950 in the meantime? Jun 21 13:46:41 lardman, no, you just get a N950, not N9 Jun 21 13:46:43 no* Jun 21 13:46:51 lardman: N950 *is* the "N9 dev kit" Jun 21 13:47:02 ok that's fine, just wanted to work out what's going on :) Jun 21 13:47:16 i dont like n9 Jun 21 13:47:18 a week without a phone and internet is a long long time Jun 21 13:47:22 i would preffer n950 Jun 21 13:47:35 was it like this as the n900 was released? Jun 21 13:47:37 doesnt it seem slightly peculiar to provide a dev kit that's missing one of the new (nearly)unique features of the n9 though, being the nfc capability? Jun 21 13:47:47 I like the way the editor for the application gives you an HTML box, but then it renders without Jun 21 13:47:59 nid0: Got to do something with the wonky hardware rather than scrap it Jun 21 13:48:00 And you have to sign a waiver so if you cut yourself on the hinge Nokia is not liable Jun 21 13:48:03 just kidding ;) Jun 21 13:48:07 * lardman must scrape some info about the devices then head back to his internet-less house to continue unpacking Jun 21 13:48:14 nid0: it is not a real dev kit, just a scam to punt redundant hardware with no warrenty or support. Jun 21 13:48:17 nid0: But yes, no NFC is a big shame Jun 21 13:48:25 Jaffa: Well - yes, and no. Jun 21 13:48:25 Jaffa: yeah, doens't like line breaks either Jun 21 13:48:34 Jaffa: There are few devices to play with it with Jun 21 13:48:42 bringing it up to par with the released n9 and giving people a hwkb option would seem like an ideal solution :< Jun 21 13:48:48 SpeedEvil: We should all get two N9s ;-) Jun 21 13:49:03 there are not even enough n950s for all people on this channel ;) Jun 21 13:49:05 hey Jun 21 13:49:07 SpeedEvil: But did you see the ideas around using NFC tag stickers around your house to automate actions on ##nokiacnxn Jun 21 13:49:15 iv been looking forward to going back to a phone with a decent kb ever since I got my n900 :< Jun 21 13:49:36 lardman: You only have a week to apply Jun 21 13:49:38 I think the correct number of n9's is 0 Jun 21 13:49:50 remind me to do that "if you haven't got your free n9 yet join #channelwithpr0nlinkontopic now" again Jun 21 13:49:50 javispedro: maybe they should start from the alphabet (a to z), im just saying.. Jun 21 13:49:54 Jaffa: I pinged out just before I woke up - relogged - and found that I'd forgotten to set the channel to logging Jun 21 13:50:26 last time it was a success =) Jun 21 13:51:15 javispedro, :) Jun 21 13:51:27 wait, android doesnt have a security platform Jun 21 13:51:29 it's rather worrying that the n9 availability checker doesnt even have the uk listed :< Jun 21 13:51:42 vi__: android has a securijoke platform, like everyone else on the market Jun 21 13:51:45 Jaffa: yep, have just put my application in Jun 21 13:51:48 nid0, and the n950 look like to have a really good keyboard Jun 21 13:52:15 i gueess alot of us will end up buying a bluetooth keyboard.. Jun 21 13:52:18 khertan: yes, i've used the e7 keyboard and its streaks ahead of the n900 pos, and looks like the n950 keyb is very similar Jun 21 13:52:45 s/bluetooth/blow-tooth Jun 21 13:52:56 even is smaller n900 keyboard is pretty good Jun 21 13:53:03 better than n810 one Jun 21 13:53:16 s/is/if Jun 21 13:53:37 N9 Jun 21 13:53:40 omap 3630 Jun 21 13:53:45 is there an official page on either of the N9/N950 anywhere? Jun 21 13:53:47 stopped readint right there Jun 21 13:53:59 lardman: theres lots of n9 pages up Jun 21 13:54:08 lardman: http://swipe.nokia.com primarily Jun 21 13:54:16 lardman: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/Device_specifications/N9-00/ Jun 21 13:54:19 thanks, will scrape that then Jun 21 13:54:26 those even :) Jun 21 13:54:39 N9-00 Jun 21 13:54:39 ~lart Beckington for only having 2G Jun 21 13:54:39 lol Jun 21 13:54:39 * infobot explains, ever so gently, that if Beckington doesn't give the channel more information, they can't help for only having 2G Jun 21 13:54:42 nokia conversations has a proper spec list at http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/06/21/video-diving-into-the-nokia-n9-ui-and-specs/ Jun 21 13:55:11 bindi: there's supposedly also a N9-01 Jun 21 13:55:14 Jaffa: Also - 'nfc' varies - from being able to read 'barcode' chips - to a more advanced ability to read active tags. Jun 21 13:55:25 aww a singlecore Jun 21 13:55:56 im actually fine with a single core cpu since it has 1GB of ram Jun 21 13:56:01 people really get far too hung up on cpu specs Jun 21 13:56:05 i hope it's physical rm Jun 21 13:56:06 *ram Jun 21 13:56:07 bindi: it's honestly beyond me what for you'd need multicore on an embedded device Jun 21 13:56:14 and not 512 physical and 512 swap Jun 21 13:56:23 knowing nokia they might advertise it as that Jun 21 13:56:31 Sazpaimon_, peter seems to let hint it s 1Go physical Jun 21 13:56:32 DocScrutinizer: ffmpeg Jun 21 13:56:33 http://www.nicecans.co.uk/flexible-folding-bluetooth-keyboard-for-ios4-iphone-ipad-andriod-p-1692.html that looks kinda handy Jun 21 13:56:54 vi__: or seti@home Jun 21 13:56:55 celluon recently released an updated version of their laser keyboard Jun 21 13:56:59 that's the one to have, tbh Jun 21 13:57:02 openstandards, and with this modder accessory ... http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013AX62K/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=1278548962&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0761121102&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0SW16P1WPB4JYJPSJ0K3 Jun 21 13:57:07 it ll look like an n950 Jun 21 13:57:15 has anyone looked at the N950 firmware image yet Jun 21 13:57:35 oh wait, nokia has a repository now Jun 21 13:58:05 http://www.celluon.com/products/laserkey1_3.htm?sm=2_1 thats the keyboard to have tbh Jun 21 13:58:17 tada!!!!!! Jun 21 13:58:23 god x86 sbox installed and running Jun 21 13:58:27 hello nokia home Jun 21 13:58:31 * lardman has to go to pick up the wife, bbiab Jun 21 13:58:41 Sazpaimon_: MohammadAG dissected it Jun 21 13:58:47 44% of the sdk install Jun 21 13:58:48 * javispedro needs to remembers to set xephyr to the proper resolution Jun 21 13:58:48 * SpeedEvil imagines lardman in a wife-carrying contest. Jun 21 13:58:54 whaou... i ll got it tommorow Jun 21 13:58:58 DocScrutinizer, is it a simple FIASCO image> Jun 21 13:59:08 with a flasher binary embedded in it Jun 21 13:59:14 three profiles: silent beep and ringing ;) Jun 21 13:59:16 basically yes, though with integrated flasher AIUI Jun 21 13:59:19 khertan: exactly but with a huge ass keyboard Jun 21 13:59:28 also what kernel is harmattan using Jun 21 13:59:39 2.6.32 apparently Jun 21 13:59:54 fscking god Jun 21 13:59:57 so backportin to N900 might not be possible Jun 21 13:59:58 btrfs support? Jun 21 13:59:59 launcher is landscape/portrait Jun 21 14:00:04 but settings app is portrait only! Jun 21 14:00:10 javispedro: more interesting: may I finally define own profiles??? Jun 21 14:00:21 considering 1. harmattan uses hardfp Jun 21 14:00:29 2. binary blobs Jun 21 14:00:32 Sazpaimon_, 2.6.32 Jun 21 14:00:33 http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/k/kernel/ Jun 21 14:00:37 :/ Jun 21 14:00:39 one wierd limitation I did notice with display modes is the image gallery appears to only do 2 angles Jun 21 14:00:39 * openstandards hopes this support groups out of the box.... Jun 21 14:00:52 it wont flip to "upside down" either landscape or portrait Jun 21 14:01:18 are they shipping out N950s yet? Jun 21 14:01:34 I signed up a developer account through my media streaming company Jun 21 14:02:06 remind me the n9 resolution? Jun 21 14:02:10 is it me or is tmo going to explode over an apparent lack of flash? Jun 21 14:02:11 hm, can N900 operate with a hardfp libc? Jun 21 14:02:25 Sazpaimon_: yes, see meego CE Jun 21 14:02:40 okay so it possibly CAN be backported to N900 Jun 21 14:02:45 Sazpaimon_: even got hf sgx libs Jun 21 14:02:51 using meego CE's modules Jun 21 14:02:54 forget Jun 21 14:02:58 a) license issues Jun 21 14:03:00 nid0: not apparent Jun 21 14:03:05 b) won't happen, experience says otherwise Jun 21 14:03:26 oh well Jun 21 14:03:43 how come xephyr is still stupidly slow on my desktop Jun 21 14:03:54 do I need to resque the vmgl stuff? I though xephyr was to be accelered long ago Jun 21 14:04:02 because it *is* stupidly slow? Jun 21 14:04:05 nid0, I dont see why the flash plugin can't be dropped in harmattan Jun 21 14:04:11 Sazpaimon_: what flash plugin Jun 21 14:04:19 surprise! Jun 21 14:04:20 any flash plugin from TI Jun 21 14:04:38 or does TI not make a flash plugin for the 3630 Jun 21 14:04:51 same as the 3430 Jun 21 14:05:00 Sazpaimon_: I take it you didn't get the memo? Jun 21 14:05:05 nope Jun 21 14:05:14 enlighten me Jun 21 14:05:18 Sazpaimon_: seems there's no accelerated flash plugin for 3430 Jun 21 14:05:26 or 3630 Jun 21 14:05:29 DocScrutinizer, who cares Jun 21 14:05:37 BTW, N9 is the last nokia phone with linux, right? Jun 21 14:05:38 having flash support would shut people up Jun 21 14:05:44 keks-n: no Jun 21 14:05:44 Sazpaimon_: indeed Jun 21 14:05:50 Hm Jun 21 14:06:03 warning: aegisSessionOpen() - failed to open platsec device (ret=-1) ( Qemu EMulator.... ) Jun 21 14:06:10 but theoretically people could drop in one of the leaked flash plugins Jun 21 14:06:12 I heard rumors that MeeGo division will close this year Jun 21 14:06:26 rlinfati: OMFG Jun 21 14:06:32 javispedro: SEE?? ^^^^^ Jun 21 14:06:46 keks-n, MeeGo/Maemo devices will continue depending on sales of the N9 Jun 21 14:06:52 hm Jun 21 14:07:02 already nokia has out advertised the N9 compared to the N900 Jun 21 14:07:03 Kernel command line: init=/sbin/preinit root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 ....... Jun 21 14:07:13 and it hasn't even been fully announced yet Jun 21 14:07:16 So we just need to write some cool soft for it Jun 21 14:07:36 mtdparts=omap2-onenand:128k(bootloader),384k@128k(config),3072k@512k(kernel),1024k@3584k(log),519680k@4608k(swap) ..... Jun 21 14:07:40 Any idea on N9 prices? Jun 21 14:07:42 keks-n: whats the point? Jun 21 14:07:51 keks-n: it is the ultimate burning platform Jun 21 14:07:52 some sdk shots: Jun 21 14:07:53 keks-n, i think most fremantle software will work on harmattan through a maemo 5 chroot Jun 21 14:07:56 http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/harmattansdk/sdk1.png Jun 21 14:07:59 http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/harmattansdk/sdk2.png Jun 21 14:08:11 I mean for both platforms Jun 21 14:08:25 javispedro, awesome Jun 21 14:08:50 SmartReflex class 1.5 driver: initialized :) Jun 21 14:08:50 +I think that most fremantle software just need to be recompiled Jun 21 14:08:52 javispedro: N9 is a portait device ;) Jun 21 14:08:59 keks-n, not if it's in a chroot Jun 21 14:08:59 So what? Jun 21 14:09:02 i *think* Jun 21 14:09:06 X-Fade: you bet, but at least launcher rotates ;) Jun 21 14:09:20 keks-n, not really ... as we didn't know if QWidget got theme Jun 21 14:09:35 chroot isn't the best way to provide sowtware for end-users Jun 21 14:09:37 keks-n, if this isn't the case, a rewrite using qml will be needed Jun 21 14:09:39 I'm not 100% sure, but I think a maemo 5 chroot will supply harmattan most of the c libraries that it needs to launch maemo 5 apps Jun 21 14:09:44 HS USB OTG: revision 0x33, sysconfig 0x2017, sysstatus 0x1, intrfsel 0x1, simenable 0x0 :):):) OTG Jun 21 14:09:52 draggin from each of the edges launches launcher Jun 21 14:09:57 s/each/any Jun 21 14:10:12 I guess that makes keeping the same ui on the n900 "hard" Jun 21 14:10:20 because edges are hardly usable on n900 Jun 21 14:10:32 why are you thinking backwards? Jun 21 14:10:37 > apt-cache search gtk Jun 21 14:10:37 libsoup2.4-1 - an HTTP library implementation in C -- Shared library Jun 21 14:10:37 libglib2.0-dev - Development files for the GLib library Jun 21 14:10:37 libglib2.0-0 - The GLib library of C routines Jun 21 14:10:42 javispedro, can you see if a qt qwidget is themed please ? Jun 21 14:10:50 There is no GTK in Harmattan SDK -_- Jun 21 14:10:51 Are there any telnettable n950s? Jun 21 14:10:53 javispedro, i'm still downloading the sdk Jun 21 14:10:58 javispedro: I imagine that capacitive even reads over the edges of the actual screen. Jun 21 14:11:21 khertan: get me a sample to run.. Jun 21 14:11:49 hum ... can you compile just one qt example ? Jun 21 14:12:06 input: Atmel mXT Touchscreen Jun 21 14:12:33 sadly, composition does not seem to work here under xephyr, but themed maliit looks pretty cool. Jun 21 14:12:35 if you have pyside in repository i can provide a simple one in python Jun 21 14:13:57 javispedro, or this one for example : http://doc.qt.nokia.com/latest/widgets-calculator.html Jun 21 14:14:39 lol: http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/harmattansdk/sdk6.png Jun 21 14:15:02 rlinfati: we had the same kind of msg in N900 bootlog Jun 21 14:15:08 the "financial" consequences part is new =) Jun 21 14:15:11 rlinfati: (USB OTG) Jun 21 14:16:11 I have to say that this thing looks little like maemo, and more like, say, wp7 or the iphone. Jun 21 14:16:24 Meh. Jun 21 14:16:32 Indeed. Jun 21 14:16:38 javispedro, which is probably exactly what they want Jun 21 14:17:01 Well, amoled drives black themes anyway ;) Jun 21 14:17:13 not only about the theme, which was black on the n900 either way Jun 21 14:17:14 Not much one can do there. Jun 21 14:17:22 but interacts different. Jun 21 14:17:37 like if it was done by a different person. or sth like that. Jun 21 14:19:05 /etc/apt/sources.list.d/aegis.ssu-keyring-dadd.list :) Jun 21 14:20:22 javispedro: X-Fade: [N900]:"It's not a phone, it's a computer" [N9]:"It's not a computer, it's an iPhone-me-too" Jun 21 14:20:32 /etc/drm/prdrm-server.conf :( Jun 21 14:20:43 Which debian is Harmattan based on? Jun 21 14:20:49 Still sarge? Jun 21 14:20:55 meego :) Jun 21 14:20:59 its meego 1.2 Jun 21 14:21:06 MeeGo is RPM-based Jun 21 14:21:13 but packaged with debian package Jun 21 14:21:18 -_- Jun 21 14:21:27 it s just a package format Jun 21 14:21:38 hopefully they use debian package Jun 21 14:21:40 debian sarge phone, come with 2 button mouse Jun 21 14:21:46 * khertan really hate the rpm package tools Jun 21 14:21:47 there are a lot of stuff related to building it Jun 21 14:21:58 not just package format Jun 21 14:22:09 Another format of hooks, etc Jun 21 14:22:25 keks-n, it s provided as a full image Jun 21 14:22:28 I don't believe, that they repackaged the whole system Jun 21 14:22:37 it s not like if you install everything from package Jun 21 14:22:48 keks-n, no i don't think too Jun 21 14:23:03 khertan: sadly calculator is crashing for some reason =) Jun 21 14:23:11 lol Jun 21 14:23:15 khertan: but there seems to be a theme Jun 21 14:23:24 ho oh ! Jun 21 14:23:28 khertan: QtMaemo6Style Jun 21 14:23:36 it s not grey on grey Jun 21 14:23:36 finally some good news! Jun 21 14:23:37 :) Jun 21 14:23:41 YEAH !!!!! Jun 21 14:23:50 /home/user/.positioningd/private... nokia will spy us ? Jun 21 14:23:52 THX javispedro for the INFORMATION Jun 21 14:23:58 yeah, tnx javispedro Jun 21 14:24:00 :) Jun 21 14:24:22 * javispedro likes "close all" button on task manager Jun 21 14:24:25 as well as effect =) Jun 21 14:24:45 javispedro: Yeah, that is cool. *poof* Jun 21 14:25:00 ok, got calculator to run, screenshot coming after I get rid of the composition glitches.. Jun 21 14:25:31 javispedro: WTF? Jun 21 14:25:49 At least it uses /etc/network/interfaces mechanism Jun 21 14:26:02 There is no /etc/network in MeeGo image Jun 21 14:26:14 javispedro: what are you running there? meego in SB? Jun 21 14:26:17 trx: khertan: http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/harmattansdk/sdk-plain-qt-app.png Jun 21 14:26:21 DocScrutinizer: yep Jun 21 14:26:26 Looks like that they just took the GUI code from MeeGo Jun 21 14:26:32 DocScrutinizer: not meego ;), harmattan Jun 21 14:26:37 yeah Jun 21 14:26:56 magooo Jun 21 14:27:02 And most of the core system is still based on Debian Jun 21 14:27:28 And I'm interested on which one Jun 21 14:27:30 the only OS that's been dead before it even started Jun 21 14:28:00 Because there are a lot of packages that we need to get from Debian or Maemo Jun 21 14:28:04 keks-n: are you a newbie? ;) sarge Jun 21 14:28:18 with a few bits from squeeze Jun 21 14:28:22 [18:18:41] Which debian is Harmattan based on? Jun 21 14:28:22 [18:18:47] Still sarge? Jun 21 14:28:40 Hi Jun 21 14:28:44 keks-n, http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/unstable/beta/Fremantle_Update7_vs_Harmattan_Beta_content_comparison.html Jun 21 14:28:44 note that maemo is a fork Jun 21 14:28:48 so rebasing is not very easy.. Jun 21 14:28:49 I hoped, that they merged code with the latest stable release Jun 21 14:29:08 is it exist way to query GPS status via dbus ? Jun 21 14:29:15 At least we have a modern debhelper and GCC Jun 21 14:29:55 khertan: liking the qt theme? Jun 21 14:30:05 jben: probably not Jun 21 14:30:21 javispedro: how did you get the emulator to run? Jun 21 14:30:34 scratchbox is not an emulator! Jun 21 14:30:43 and other ways are ? Jun 21 14:30:45 oh, not in scratchbox? Jun 21 14:30:53 scratchbox, yes. Jun 21 14:30:55 I mean, I am trying the qemu one Jun 21 14:31:09 the one that comes with the SDK Jun 21 14:31:18 that's the one Jun 21 14:31:29 DocScrutinizer: there are two sdks now Jun 21 14:31:30 javispedro, there is better theme ... but at least theme exist ... try to run a qt app in MeeGo De and you will understand what i mean ... unuseable :) Jun 21 14:31:46 the application/qt creator one, and the platform/sbox one Jun 21 14:31:49 javispedro: o.O Jun 21 14:31:55 DocScrutinizer, the qemu one with qt creator didn't works for me Jun 21 14:32:04 yeah same here Jun 21 14:32:15 been at the same screen for a while Jun 21 14:32:32 DocScrutinizer: to be expected, qt creator runs on way more platforms, and is more newbie friendly. fortunately, someone kept sbox around :) Jun 21 14:32:34 with the product version and such Jun 21 14:32:58 javispedro: Ubuntu manages to rebase pretty often, is Maemo more forked than that? Jun 21 14:33:11 downloading the rootstrap ... 1Kb / s Jun 21 14:33:13 :( Jun 21 14:33:40 pabs3: ubuntu does not make decisions like convert the distro in a monouser one, move all the installation paths around, etc. etc. Jun 21 14:34:18 they just make stupid ui decisions like use unity ;P Jun 21 14:34:35 instead of optification ;) Jun 21 14:35:33 javispedro: what is geoengine map widget? Jun 21 14:35:44 hmm, ok. Jun 21 14:35:50 vi__: no idea Jun 21 14:35:55 >> like use unity Jun 21 14:35:55 It's better than GNOME 3 Jun 21 14:37:13 someone asked what "fenix" was. it is the mail app, seemingly. Jun 21 14:37:35 javispedro, and move close button under the menu :) Jun 21 14:37:55 LD_LIBRARY_PATH=../lib ./dgles2test Function glBlendEquationSeparate not found! :( Jun 21 14:38:04 keks-n, it s a matter of preferences, i prefer gnome shell (aka gnome 3) Jun 21 14:38:32 I use a coombination of AWN and cairo dock Jun 21 14:39:54 javispedro: s/make decisions/make utterly stupid decisions/ Jun 21 14:40:56 khertan, http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/8008/86356774.png - something like that Jun 21 14:41:14 * javispedro can't find the browser in sdk despite release notes saying it is there.. Jun 21 14:41:14 found the qcow image Jun 21 14:41:19 javispedro: fenix also is the flasher program used to flash BB5 phones. Or was that phoenix Jun 21 14:41:43 keks-n, yep i didn't like Jun 21 14:42:00 so finally qemy boots up Jun 21 14:42:02 qemu* Jun 21 14:42:23 hiemanshu: what are you trying? Jun 21 14:42:35 A small screen of my laptop makes me save on the vertical resolution Jun 21 14:42:43 BluesLee: the new SDK Jun 21 14:42:56 hiemanshu: okay Jun 21 14:43:49 And because of that I HATE shells that doesn't provide vertical panels that don't look like a crap Jun 21 14:43:50 is there a realistic chance to run harmattan (n9 binaries) from sd on n900 using meego dev kernel? Jun 21 14:43:58 javispedro: Can you check the quoting standards' compliance of the mail app, please? Jun 21 14:44:27 >>is there a realistic chance to run harmattan (n9 binaries) from sd on n900 using meego dev kernel? Jun 21 14:44:27 Just try Jun 21 14:44:30 BluesLee: good question Jun 21 14:44:52 i have the image.bin but how can i extract it? Jun 21 14:44:53 trying to put it on portrait Jun 21 14:45:00 BluesLee: I'd bet on maemo kernel though Jun 21 14:45:07 Try with qemu first Jun 21 14:45:19 well, maybe not Jun 21 14:45:45 whatever, I'd just try it under fremantle Jun 21 14:46:34 and meego-arm (aka the true meego) Jun 21 14:47:10 BluesLee: extract harmattan? Jun 21 14:47:44 AIUI you just start it, it has flasher built in Jun 21 14:47:50 * javispedro worries about rotation support Jun 21 14:48:09 I don't Jun 21 14:48:13 apparent lack of 4-way rotation seems peculiar Jun 21 14:48:17 not because of non-pervasiveness Jun 21 14:48:25 but because of the non-xrandr way of doing it :S Jun 21 14:48:31 ooh Jun 21 14:49:01 DocScrutinizer: the original file is a shell script, i cutted it, renamed it to tar, untared it and now i have emmc.bin and img.bin Jun 21 14:49:27 mhm Jun 21 14:49:49 DocScrutinizer: and now i hope to extract the rootfs from the raw file img.bin Jun 21 14:50:02 Try to mount img.bin Jun 21 14:50:09 As a UBIFS image Jun 21 14:50:19 keks-n: okay Jun 21 14:50:37 no idea how MohammadAG did it, but he got http://paste.ubuntu.com/630358/ Jun 21 14:51:10 rootfs is ext4, no? Jun 21 14:51:31 does the n9 have any kind of hardware back button or something? Jun 21 14:51:49 javispedro, nope Jun 21 14:51:54 definitely not, modulo the vol+/- Jun 21 14:51:59 feels like if some interactions required it Jun 21 14:52:00 DocScrutinizer: yes (ext4) Jun 21 14:52:07 at least the kernel assumes so Jun 21 14:52:11 Volume rocker and power button Jun 21 14:52:15 that or decorator is failing on xephyr Jun 21 14:52:49 ext4 on mtb? Jun 21 14:53:02 ext4 on mmc Jun 21 14:53:23 rootfs on mmc?! Jun 21 14:53:28 yup Jun 21 14:53:31 haha Jun 21 14:53:33 omg Jun 21 14:53:39 javispedro: nope, its a horizontal slide from the right edge Jun 21 14:53:55 webos style, no wonder. Jun 21 14:53:57 to go back Jun 21 14:54:06 yes you are right Jun 21 14:54:17 well Jun 21 14:54:18 blaergh, I hate it Jun 21 14:54:20 that gets me to the task switcher Jun 21 14:54:22 so no idea Jun 21 14:54:30 all this no-buttons philosophy Jun 21 14:54:47 conservative DocScrutinizer Jun 21 14:54:47 :P Jun 21 14:55:23 I'm lost on the mail app =) Jun 21 14:55:33 Stskeeps: yeah, strange enough I like it when things *work* as supposed Jun 21 14:55:33 good or bad? Jun 21 14:55:34 DocScrutinizer: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Application_development_framework/Data_Storage Jun 21 14:55:35 well atleast my app works perfectly using the qemu sdk Jun 21 14:55:45 don't know how to go to settings Jun 21 14:55:46 speaking of mail, please please please x a million tell me this one'll support imap-idle and local subscriptions :< Jun 21 14:55:47 =) Jun 21 14:55:49 javispedro: qemu is slow, but it has everything Jun 21 14:56:40 * javispedro ponders dusting the blow off vmgl Jun 21 14:57:15 weird sentence Jun 21 14:57:39 Corsac: nice, but where shall I link it in? Jun 21 14:58:23 ? Jun 21 14:58:53 Corsac: (data storage SPARQL etc) Jun 21 14:59:04 if anyone wants to try, I can upload the nand and the meego root image (that one that runs via qemu) Jun 21 14:59:12 DocScrutinizer: I don't get it :) Jun 21 14:59:26 see your own past some 13 lines above Jun 21 14:59:49 DocScrutinizer: you asked if rootfs was ext4, I just provided you a link with storage details Jun 21 14:59:54 full stop Jun 21 15:00:00 not really Jun 21 15:00:09 this is about some Qt storage Jun 21 15:00:24 also I didn't ask, I stated Jun 21 15:00:34 did you miss "filesystem overview" just below? Jun 21 15:00:51 meh, indeed, as I wasn't really interested Jun 21 15:00:51 DocScrutinizer: ok, I don't care anyway Jun 21 15:01:10 I was just trying to help Jun 21 15:01:12 thnaks nevertheless Jun 21 15:01:18 :-) Jun 21 15:01:31 appreciated Jun 21 15:04:19 DocScrutinizer: looks to complicated for me, i will try the sdk Jun 21 15:05:38 Corsac: actually there's an awesome bit in there:>>rootfs directories are laid out in accordance with the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard, version 2.3<< Jun 21 15:05:51 ~optification Jun 21 15:05:52 i guess optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3 Jun 21 15:07:18 I gather they had no such directive for maemo fremantle ;-P Jun 21 15:08:22 nevertheless very next paragraph says >>Binaries and other files needed for running an application should be stored under /opt/... Jun 21 15:08:46 damn the sdk downloads are getting bigger and bigger Jun 21 15:09:04 GB... TB Jun 21 15:09:05 BluesLee: yeah it was a 500-ish download Jun 21 15:09:11 hm, the n9 includes a builtin ftp server? Jun 21 15:09:14 btw our beloved icd2 is still here =) Jun 21 15:09:31 nid0: o.O ??? Jun 21 15:09:37 oh, nvm, bluetooth ftp profile Jun 21 15:09:37 hmhm, is there a rootfs link? Jun 21 15:09:41 javispedro: OMFG Jun 21 15:09:56 Corsac: for? Jun 21 15:10:40 the bluetooth profile list seems strangely lacking HID, again :< Jun 21 15:11:04 hiemanshu: investigation? Jun 21 15:11:21 seems none available Jun 21 15:11:37 not even for fremantle afaik Jun 21 15:11:43 there is one in the SDK Jun 21 15:11:49 oh Jun 21 15:11:51 its a qcow image of the meego root Jun 21 15:11:51 sure Jun 21 15:11:59 hm, the built-in tethering's provided by joikuspot it seems Jun 21 15:12:18 nid0: yep :-S Jun 21 15:12:28 shame on you, nokia Jun 21 15:12:44 I hope it's implemented properly at least rather than an ad-hoc hack like we have currently :< Jun 21 15:12:55 * hiemanshu mounts the qcow image Jun 21 15:13:11 you bet it's all the same as on N900 Jun 21 15:13:37 hey, it does seem to include swype at least tho Jun 21 15:13:51 whatever that is Jun 21 15:16:51 Oh, Engadget Jun 21 15:16:55 You so biased. Jun 21 15:17:06 heya GAN900 Jun 21 15:17:13 come join our collective brainwashing Jun 21 15:17:26 I want an N950 and I want it now. Jun 21 15:17:34 nid0, no it does not have the swype keyboard Jun 21 15:17:42 nid0, it's the swipe UI Jun 21 15:17:49 (nokia's UI) Jun 21 15:18:31 Termana: sure? netbooknews has a spec list including an apparent list of preloaded software, and it clearly states swype, not the swipe ui Jun 21 15:18:50 Then they have interpreted this wrong Jun 21 15:18:55 It is Swipe UI Jun 21 15:20:26 If you've seen the videos then you'll obviously understand why they called their UI "Swipe", even though its a pretty bad marketing move, since obviously people are already getting confused with the Swype keyboard Jun 21 15:20:34 There are 2 things. The Swipe UI and Swype the input method. Notice the difference ;) Jun 21 15:21:42 im fully aware of the difference between the swipe ui and the swype keyboard software, but several spec lists for the device are clearly stating it has both Jun 21 15:21:46 I want my Hatterman N9-00!! Jun 21 15:22:02 Mad hatter? :) Jun 21 15:22:04 thp: absolutely funny "creative mispelling" ;) Jun 21 15:22:42 on mobilecrunch nonetheless Jun 21 15:22:43 http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2011/06/21/meet-the-nokia-n9-a-colorful-slice-of-meego-magic/ Jun 21 15:23:04 javispedro: the arm image has a lot of stuff, there still seems to be the MyDocs thing Jun 21 15:23:13 s/thing// Jun 21 15:23:13 hiemanshu meant: javispedro: the arm image has a lot of stuff, there still seems to be the MyDocs Jun 21 15:23:23 hiemanshu: obviously Jun 21 15:23:35 re Jun 21 15:23:43 and quite a bit more stuff Jun 21 15:23:59 which nokia binaries? Jun 21 15:24:38 a b c Jun 21 15:24:47 lardman, whatever you were going to say, my answer is no Jun 21 15:24:49 :p Jun 21 15:24:49 s/b/d/ Jun 21 15:24:49 vi__ meant: a d c Jun 21 15:25:00 hey lardman Jun 21 15:25:01 whoa Jun 21 15:25:03 Termana: would you like me to send you a crate of champagne? Jun 21 15:25:15 oh sorry, just read your response ;) Jun 21 15:25:45 ha ha Jun 21 15:25:48 so.... has anyone mentioned haptics on the n9 Jun 21 15:25:56 hap-wap-tics Jun 21 15:26:04 no, doesn't ring any bell. Jun 21 15:26:18 hey javispedro Jun 21 15:26:18 it was supposed to have tactile feed back Jun 21 15:26:32 "it was supposed to" or "someone made up that it would"? Jun 21 15:26:33 where it feels like youre typing on a physical keyboard Jun 21 15:26:44 Sazpaimon_: that was the opitmist version. Jun 21 15:26:44 * lardman is not quite sure what Termana means by his comment Jun 21 15:26:44 the latter Jun 21 15:26:57 What comment? Jun 21 15:26:59 Sazpaimon_: the realistic version is that it will make some vibrations and noises Jun 21 15:27:03 Sazpaimon_: and thats about it Jun 21 15:27:04 there was plenty of haptikos speculation, but it was just as much complete guesswork hopefulness as any other guesses Jun 21 15:27:06 what a bummer Jun 21 15:27:16 how old is the n9's gpu? Jun 21 15:27:16 Termana: "Whatever you're going to say..." Jun 21 15:27:21 it would have been cool eh.. Jun 21 15:27:39 BluesLee, same as the n900 Jun 21 15:27:40 lardman, [00:51] re Jun 21 15:27:46 Sazpaimon_: no, later revision Jun 21 15:28:10 i thought the 3630 had the same powervr model Jun 21 15:28:19 Termana: ah I see, bit slow today, all the cleaning I've been doing Jun 21 15:28:39 Sazpaimon_: yeah same model but a different revision Jun 21 15:28:44 lardman, and all the cheap champagne you've been drinking ;) Jun 21 15:28:45 also hi stskeeps, good to see you here at least Jun 21 15:29:10 Termana: well I blame my wife for being pregnant, means I have to drink almost the entire bottle myself ;) Jun 21 15:30:46 i read the n950 has the same hardware as the nO Jun 21 15:30:51 *n9 Jun 21 15:31:03 well, simmilar Jun 21 15:31:12 but no word on the soc and ram Jun 21 15:32:07 the devkit might have between 512 and 1G of RAM Jun 21 15:32:09 while the n9 has 1G Jun 21 15:32:30 damn these flash sites, makes it hard to view offline Jun 21 15:33:05 yeah i saw some specs before announcement that it has less ram Jun 21 15:33:08 damn flash in general Jun 21 15:33:19 cant complain if its free though Jun 21 15:33:21 loft306: well yes there is that ;) Jun 21 15:34:17 also over 1300 comments on the engadget N9 hands on article Jun 21 15:34:30 which i just noticed was posted by vlad Jun 21 15:34:39 How many of them whining about it not being WP7? Jun 21 15:34:46 which shocked me because he didnt use it to slam nokia Jun 21 15:34:55 which he always does Jun 21 15:35:17 GeneralAntilles, from what I last read, lots of praise about it being MeeGo and people wondering why Nokia made the WP7 deal Jun 21 15:35:32 GeneralAntilles: it was actually fairly mixed but overall positive, its (unsuprisingly) gizmodo that's really ripped into it being a waste of a device Jun 21 15:35:44 hmm polarised glass on the N9? Jun 21 15:36:04 Looking at how slick that device looks Jun 21 15:36:14 I'm floored Elop decided to basically kill MeeGo. Jun 21 15:36:25 +1 Jun 21 15:36:33 Doesn't lend much credence to his claims in that WSJ article from a few weeks ago. Jun 21 15:36:37 He doesn't slam nokia that much Jun 21 15:36:39 I still think he's a scummy Microsoft plan. Jun 21 15:36:42 gizmodo hates it becausethey thought it was an ipod nano phone Jun 21 15:36:59 I do not see it supporting imap idle Jun 21 15:37:06 lol, it supports MMS Jun 21 15:37:08 :@ Jun 21 15:37:43 that's quite cool how the numbers become smaller in the dialling pad so that you can still see the whole number Jun 21 15:37:43 lack of imap idle and local subscriptions will really kill the device for me as an actual productive tool :< Jun 21 15:37:50 lardman: Oh - noes - what will frals do? Jun 21 15:38:05 nid0 its an nseries device Jun 21 15:38:19 Sazpaimon_: so? basic imap functionality isnt asking a lot. Jun 21 15:38:20 http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/harmattansdk/sdk8.png Jun 21 15:38:23 you cant expect productivity from an nseries device Jun 21 15:38:25 that is the "how often check mail" dialog Jun 21 15:38:26 SpeedEvil: probably not have to answer silly questions from users about why it's not working because they didn't follow the instructions? ;) Jun 21 15:38:37 SpeedEvil: who knows, maybe I've done my part on the device when its on sale ;) Jun 21 15:38:39 :) Jun 21 15:38:46 Sazpaimon_: Modest supports imap-idle by default. The only reason the n900 doesnt have it is because nokia explicitly disabled it Jun 21 15:39:15 Going portrait-primary kinda pisses me off. Jun 21 15:39:16 I have to admit that the time picker widget is freaking cool. Jun 21 15:39:22 Actually, this is the same trend Nokia's been on for years. Jun 21 15:39:23 im not saying it shouldnt be there Jun 21 15:39:30 "Screw the guys we already have, we want other people!" Jun 21 15:39:54 GeneralAntilles: well if the screen is polarised, then I guess they have to make a decision one way or the other Jun 21 15:40:03 the "its not a business/productivity device" is not an excuse to exclude basic functionality, imo. Jun 21 15:40:03 but that you shouldnt have any expectation or functionality beyond media and social networking on an nseries device Jun 21 15:40:08 javispedro: How does it integrate with setting a claendar event - is there issues with being able to set 'next thursday' ? Jun 21 15:40:16 javispedro: Oh - you don't have a device - oops Jun 21 15:40:19 SpeedEvil: Have not seen calendar app in sdk Jun 21 15:40:29 javispedro: there is calendar app in sdk Jun 21 15:40:40 javispedro: the qemu one Jun 21 15:40:49 be lucky if they port mail for exchange to it Jun 21 15:41:22 hiemanshu: so, try it :) Jun 21 15:41:28 javispedro: powering it on Jun 21 15:41:30 its already listed as supporting mfe Jun 21 15:41:32 it takes a while Jun 21 15:41:34 Bing is going to be the default search engine ;) Jun 21 15:41:50 im starting to like bing Jun 21 15:41:51 Imma bang the bing out of it :P Jun 21 15:41:51 * loft306 pukes Jun 21 15:42:20 googles been giving me too many garbage results lately Jun 21 15:42:48 finally, an e-compass, rejoice! Jun 21 15:42:58 lardman: yeah, in both devkit and n9 Jun 21 15:43:06 cool :) Jun 21 15:43:14 i hope nokia approved my developer launchpad account Jun 21 15:43:51 I created a launchpad account like half a year ago and hasn't been approved yet Jun 21 15:44:08 i did it as a company though Jun 21 15:45:03 well I hope they approve mine too Jun 21 15:45:58 don't slip the queue dammit. ;P Jun 21 15:46:02 Sorry... Jun 21 15:46:02 In order to access Launchpad you need to create a Developer Account and then apply to Launchpad. Please continue to create the Developer Account. Jun 21 15:46:07 ddddd Jun 21 15:46:29 * lardman registers for a developer account Jun 21 15:47:04 the launchpad registration was a bit confusing Jun 21 15:47:18 i thought I signed up for it when i added my company Jun 21 15:51:15 'There is an existing membership application already for this program. The applicant will be notified by e-mail once the membership application has been reviewed.' is what I get Jun 21 15:51:25 http://felipec.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/my-disagreement-with-elop-on-meego/ Jun 21 15:51:28 Hm Jun 21 15:51:46 Looks like there will be no other linux devices from nokia Jun 21 15:52:15 ( "Screw the guys we already have, we want other people!" ) BUT... but, there are SO MANY out there that haven't bought our product, and SO FEW here that are happy and and more of what we got! let's just bin it, and start something better, for the masses out there Jun 21 15:52:26 javispedro: ;) Jun 21 15:52:42 so wait Jun 21 15:52:55 i just realized Jun 21 15:53:17 the swipe interface stifles developers that wanted to have gestures in their programs Jun 21 15:53:39 well, it limits them to not having edge-of-screen swipe gestures Jun 21 15:53:47 yeah Jun 21 15:53:55 those were quite common on n900! Jun 21 15:54:06 hey microb had it Jun 21 15:54:08 are you koking? Jun 21 15:54:10 you just were not able to do them due to the poor edge sensitiviness ;P Jun 21 15:54:12 *joking? Jun 21 15:54:16 and so did cutetube Jun 21 15:54:48 ... "and first of all let's see what is the stuff *most* people use, then we'll try to outperform Aplle and Google on their own playground. Forget about those linux nerds" Jun 21 15:54:52 that said, there are quite possibly perfectly good ways round it Jun 21 15:55:09 nid0, there are Jun 21 15:55:12 hell, software that wants an edge-of-screen gesture can probably just make it a 2-finger swipe Jun 21 15:55:26 im gonna miss the fm transmitter Jun 21 15:55:27 if people would only read the source code that is available at gitorious, sigh :-) Jun 21 15:55:46 mikhas: yes, I was joking ;P Jun 21 15:55:46 i only ever used it to fuck with people listening to the radio though Jun 21 15:56:00 that was fun Jun 21 15:57:42 mikhas: if only people would accept that this is a *butt-ugly* UI and nobody should support it ;-P Jun 21 15:58:09 DocScrutinizer: stop resisting the brainwashing! Jun 21 15:58:21 DocScrutinizer: you... love... portrait ... keyboard-less.... capacitive .... obey! Jun 21 15:58:33 r33b.net Jun 21 15:58:43 DocScrutinizer, some people like butts. fact. Jun 21 15:58:53 http://r33b.net even Jun 21 15:58:57 i like butts Jun 21 15:58:58 hmm, anyone found the UI docs in pdf form? Jun 21 16:00:20 mikhas: well, definitely the taste of Nokia GUI developers never been exactly mine. That's a fact for sure Jun 21 16:01:29 Sazpaimon_: infobot got something for you ;-) Jun 21 16:01:34 ~ubuntu Jun 21 16:01:34 ubuntu is probably caca from this ass http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/3843/18427557718e22857e9rb.jpg Jun 21 16:03:24 nah that's how arch linux was born. Jun 21 16:03:38 great photo Jun 21 16:03:39 I'm still waiting for a phone with a normal distro inside Jun 21 16:03:47 funny Jun 21 16:03:58 why is the Qt SDK Maintainence Tool... Jun 21 16:04:03 ...written using Gtk+? Jun 21 16:04:14 ah wait, sorry Jun 21 16:04:14 :) Jun 21 16:04:16 MUHAAAHAAABWAAHAA Jun 21 16:04:17 qt linked statically Jun 21 16:04:27 (otherwise can't explain 27MiB binary size) Jun 21 16:04:30 oh. :) Jun 21 16:04:38 yeah qt uses glib though Jun 21 16:05:39 well, the "don't eat your own dogfood" syndrome is widespread common Jun 21 16:06:39 was confused by the fact it refused to run without gtk+ (probably glib though) Jun 21 16:07:04 it only links to glib so it can register fds in "the" system glib event handler afaik Jun 21 16:07:10 hm Jun 21 16:07:19 will the n9 have swype? Jun 21 16:07:30 i know, but I though it would dlopen it Jun 21 16:07:37 glib is sorta like the 'i wish i knew c++' library. Jun 21 16:07:53 javispedro, absolutely it should be :/ Jun 21 16:10:36 interesting, one must choose an application colour Jun 21 16:10:40 for highlights Jun 21 16:10:46 lardman: lol? Jun 21 16:10:48 lardman: err.. Jun 21 16:10:50 lardman: where? Jun 21 16:10:56 http://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/pages/Colour.html Jun 21 16:11:16 A key visual attribute of all Nokia N9 applications is the highlight color. Each application owns a unique highlight color for personality and differentiation. Jun 21 16:11:16 When choosing your application's highlight color, consider aligning it with the primary color of your brand to promote your brand's presence and strengthen your application's identity. Jun 21 16:11:16 it is a bold move Jun 21 16:11:17 Sazpaimon_, no, the N9 will not have SWYPE THE KEYBOARD. It has SWIPE THE UI Jun 21 16:11:40 * lardman wonders if there are sufficient colours for one per app ;) Jun 21 16:12:04 wait, did nokia remove ALL of hildon from the harmattan? Jun 21 16:12:09 what the hell Jun 21 16:12:12 sufficient differentiable colours that is Jun 21 16:12:13 of course Jun 21 16:12:19 it was announced long ago Jun 21 16:12:24 i thought they were keeping hildon for backwards compatability Jun 21 16:12:28 lardman: let's go back to palmos days, and set up a central registrar for colors Jun 21 16:12:32 the gnome foundation bid is so far a failure Jun 21 16:12:33 or was that just gtk Jun 21 16:12:44 javispedro: well I was wondering about that actually... Jun 21 16:13:15 lardman: 'Your application for orange has been turned down, due to earlier developer applications. YOu have been aloocated 'Puke Green'. Jun 21 16:13:23 lol Jun 21 16:14:43 Nokia reserves all of the useful colors. For developers we will allocate a few thousand bright pink variations. Jun 21 16:15:19 Homescreen doesn't do landscape Jun 21 16:15:24 That's such bullshit. Jun 21 16:15:42 is there any info on how to access e.g. the video stream? Jun 21 16:15:54 Probably closed source, too, so we can't fix it. Jun 21 16:15:56 does one need to use Qt for that, as iirc you couldn't easily access each frame Jun 21 16:16:20 GeneralAntilles: launcher does landscape Jun 21 16:16:23 GeneralAntilles: I've tried on sdk Jun 21 16:16:27 Hmm Jun 21 16:16:32 Wasn't in the demo on Engadget. Jun 21 16:16:38 also mail does landscape Jun 21 16:16:45 settings, curiously, doesn't. Jun 21 16:18:18 BQ2415X Jun 21 16:18:45 hey Stskeeps, is the way you can, erm, "speed up" my launchpad application Jun 21 16:18:54 ah still Gstreamer I see Jun 21 16:18:55 Sazpaimon_: you overestimate my importance Jun 21 16:19:08 or is that beyond your realm Jun 21 16:19:10 :( Jun 21 16:19:22 Sazpaimon_: ENOTANOKIAEMPLOYEE Jun 21 16:23:29 there seems to be a friggin impressive battery usage monitoring app Jun 21 16:23:42 sadly, I can only get it to spurt garbage Jun 21 16:23:46 (obviously :P ) Jun 21 16:26:57 wow N9 looks sickkk Jun 21 16:27:31 #meego-bar, not #maemo Jun 21 16:28:05 hmm, bar sounds good Jun 21 16:28:16 some people are trying to work here Jun 21 16:28:19 well. Jun 21 16:28:21 "some" at least. Jun 21 16:28:22 I should really go home, especially as I'm on holiday still Jun 21 16:39:07 javispedro: huh? BQ2415X? Jun 21 16:39:27 DocScrutinizer: found that while grepping through the batt mon app Jun 21 16:40:11 aaah, great. Well not SO great as it means... err... there's still no proper API, and a lot of mess Jun 21 16:40:38 cu tomorrow chaps Jun 21 16:40:54 also batt mon app? WTF? Jun 21 16:41:03 DocScrutinizer: a dev thing seemingly Jun 21 16:41:18 cannot actually run it Jun 21 16:41:33 haha, the picked our dead simple tools to read out the chips? Jun 21 16:42:06 dunno Jun 21 16:42:08 strace, probably it still uses direct I2C access Jun 21 16:42:18 doesn't seem Jun 21 16:42:22 that's prolly why it fails Jun 21 16:42:24 looks like they have a kernel module Jun 21 16:42:29 mhm Jun 21 16:42:34 cool shit Jun 21 16:42:55 a KERNEL MODULE for bq24150? DUH! Jun 21 16:43:13 https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/2/28/492 Jun 21 16:43:14 nokian! Jun 21 16:43:26 * DocScrutinizer points at his semi-finished spec for such module's API Jun 21 16:43:56 BQ2415X_ENABLE_OTG Jun 21 16:44:01 :) Jun 21 16:45:16 WTF indeed Jun 21 16:45:35 Implementation is based on BQ24153/6/8 datasheet Jun 21 16:45:45 we got bq24150 on N900 Jun 21 16:47:03 now WTF we couldn't get this for maemo? Jun 21 16:48:15 javispedro: mind to toss a URL to git? Jun 21 16:48:26 toss a url to git? Jun 21 16:48:30 LKML not really helping to review src Jun 21 16:49:09 javispedro: something like mxr or similar Jun 21 16:49:11 DocScrutinizer: https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/2/28/494 Jun 21 16:49:18 ah Jun 21 16:49:23 see above Jun 21 16:49:24 :) Jun 21 16:50:08 X-Fade: thanks Jun 21 16:51:55 javispedro: ENABLE_OTG just enables a input pin, needed for energency charge fastcharger detection basically Jun 21 16:52:33 don't ask me what they thought about that naming Jun 21 16:53:23 Oh, Intel. Jun 21 16:53:30 You're just too adorable. Jun 21 16:53:45 oh, GeneralAntilles Jun 21 16:53:52 you're so cryptic Jun 21 16:54:06 ;-) Jun 21 16:54:14 DocScrutinizer, the silly emotion-based hating on Harmattan. Jun 21 16:54:30 haha, Intl joins in? Jun 21 16:54:43 I do think arjan's post on lwn is a bit over the top Jun 21 16:55:03 Their complete lack of pragmatism will be their undoing. Jun 21 16:55:09 DocScrutinizer, not entirely. Jun 21 16:55:15 Just that they want to be strict about their bullshit Jun 21 16:55:20 sounded like me when I shout "the SDK is NOT AN EMULATOOOOOOOOOOOOOR", but arjan shouted "Harmattan is NOT MEEEGOOOOOO" Jun 21 16:55:22 when Nokia is the only company shipping an exciting product Jun 21 16:55:38 Rather than leveraging Nokia's buzz. Jun 21 16:55:42 ROTFL Jun 21 16:55:49 Typically of short-sighted engineering types, though. Jun 21 16:56:12 * GeneralAntilles <- saying that as someone who's been in that mindset more than once on several issues. Jun 21 16:56:33 GeneralAntilles: Intel style is to announce and demo absolutely cool products, then ship nothing. Jun 21 16:56:39 like that stantum tablet Jun 21 16:58:22 http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-n9/check-availability?cid=ncomprod-fw-ilc-bdy-n9lnkms2pp_228x96-na-ms_swipe-g0-en-1todtmt773311 ....Whaaa.. usa not in the list Jun 21 16:59:02 stay away from this european invention and keep buying wp7 phones! Jun 21 16:59:33 Ha Jun 21 16:59:56 there's basically nothing in that list Jun 21 17:00:00 though alot of places arent in tehlist Jun 21 17:00:07 the better part of EU missing as well Jun 21 17:00:48 for Germany I can check either Suisse or Poland Jun 21 17:01:15 UK, Fr, seems most of EU missing Jun 21 17:01:17 anyone know how long the N950 loans are for? Jun 21 17:01:29 pabs3: "As long as necessary" Jun 21 17:01:38 it's been written somewhere? or maybe not? Jun 21 17:01:53 hmm Jun 21 17:02:00 when are N950s going to be distributed Jun 21 17:02:09 I'm still waiting on approval for my launchpad account Jun 21 17:02:24 Jaffa: I finally arrived to register for Launchpad Jun 21 17:02:28 Sazpaimon_: 2 weeks. Jun 21 17:02:33 as I was saying, I've been waiting for half a year for my launchpad account Jun 21 17:02:38 or more iirc Jun 21 17:02:42 javispedro, post about it on the forum Jun 21 17:02:50 they have a developer forum for feedback Jun 21 17:02:51 but now it says I have insufficient perms for joining developer programs Jun 21 17:03:06 http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Discussion/forumdisplay.php?166-Feedback-on-Forum-Nokia-Services Jun 21 17:03:35 i dont think I did my launchpad registration very well though Jun 21 17:03:40 lol DocScrutinizer Jun 21 17:03:45 I kind of did my membership request as a sales pitch Jun 21 17:03:55 Sazpaimon_: same, on MWC. Jun 21 17:04:05 hm Jun 21 17:04:08 can't be... Jun 21 17:04:20 well, don't remember where. Jun 21 17:04:27 saying "We want to work with Nokia to hit the global market as opposed to a US-Centric iOS and Android approach" Jun 21 17:04:40 neve really dove into our projects Jun 21 17:05:09 then us-centric elop came to power Jun 21 17:05:36 and your registration was lost in the elop-mandated book burning session Jun 21 17:05:54 i only applied last night l) Jun 21 17:10:17 he burns nightly Jun 21 17:12:49 I'll burn him ;-) Jun 21 17:15:52 so what bring it out september then fush it back to christmas? Jun 21 17:16:07 *push Jun 21 17:17:02 lol well, I guess whether i get in to a developer program or not, I will have to find a way to get the N950 <_< Jun 21 17:17:25 some amount of money will have to be able to part someone from one Jun 21 17:17:35 bump and grab? Jun 21 17:18:13 AIUI somebody Nokia claimed they would like to sell N950 but have issues with CE cert (??? :-o ) Jun 21 17:18:26 >_> Jun 21 17:18:27 hard to believe Jun 21 17:18:30 yo doc Jun 21 17:18:35 I'd guess they'll sort those issues out eventually Jun 21 17:18:42 more believable is that elop burned ce certs in latest book burning Jun 21 17:18:56 will you buy n9 ? Jun 21 17:18:57 :) Jun 21 17:19:01 maybe one of the people i know there would be able to figure out something to help me... <_< Jun 21 17:19:07 i would never buy an n9 Jun 21 17:19:23 n950 on the other hand I would probably steal candy from a baby for Jun 21 17:19:38 >_> Jun 21 17:19:40 <_< Jun 21 17:19:40 isn't it incredible? Jun 21 17:19:56 do you have full specs somewhere? Jun 21 17:19:59 i haven't seen them Jun 21 17:20:01 only seen the pic Jun 21 17:20:06 http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-n9/specifications Jun 21 17:20:14 GOT THE OTHER ONE HERE SOMEWHERE Jun 21 17:20:18 eeps Jun 21 17:20:29 yeah don't care about the n9 Jun 21 17:20:31 :P Jun 21 17:20:32 oops Jun 21 17:20:40 ohthat one Jun 21 17:20:49 havvent seen anp Jun 21 17:20:49 Nokia announces a device most people wouldn't want to get for xmas gift, with a strictly limited number of "devel devices" that will probably cause murder and robbery Jun 21 17:20:51 * javispedro looks at /opt folder in desktop pc... QtSDK & PalmSDK. Yep. So similar.. Jun 21 17:21:53 yeah honestly don't care if i have to buy a stolen one or what, i'll pay for it <_< Jun 21 17:22:09 rm_work: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/Device_specifications/N9-00/ Jun 21 17:22:15 though i guess i'd rather not know it's stolen :P Jun 21 17:22:22 http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/21/nokias-n950-developer-meego-handset-gets-official-4-inch-displ/ just a little bit here .. not much rm_work Jun 21 17:22:27 I might get the N9 actually Jun 21 17:22:37 yeah i saw that one loft306, with the pic Jun 21 17:22:46 as a device to play with Jun 21 17:22:59 DocScrutinizer: so that has the specs for n950 but the pics from the n9? rofl Jun 21 17:23:01 maybe use it for in car nav Jun 21 17:23:13 if i wanted in-car nav i would buy an android tablet Jun 21 17:23:14 lol Jun 21 17:23:15 nomething to loose and leave in the car Jun 21 17:23:18 prolly cheaper evem Jun 21 17:23:20 *evenm Jun 21 17:23:21 *even Jun 21 17:23:28 rm_work: not really Jun 21 17:23:37 rm_work, you're getting an N9. Jun 21 17:23:40 Don't deny it. Jun 21 17:23:45 GeneralAntilles: nope :/ Jun 21 17:23:48 rm_work: http://pastebin.com/0SWqx8JL Jun 21 17:23:50 GeneralAntilles: would rather just buy a G2 Jun 21 17:23:56 rm_work: you are indoctrinated already... just sleep... Jun 21 17:24:03 lol Jun 21 17:24:06 need to contact my operator to see how much the extra sim costs Jun 21 17:24:06 rm_work, pfff Jun 21 17:24:08 Android is shit. Jun 21 17:24:13 At least the N9 has a good OS. Jun 21 17:24:19 GeneralAntilles: and it's unusable Jun 21 17:24:22 so that's awesome Jun 21 17:24:40 it's like hey, have an awesome os, but you don't get to actually use it, because we're taking your keyboard away Jun 21 17:24:42 man Jun 21 17:24:46 Android is more unusable with a keyboard than MeeGo without. Jun 21 17:24:53 I'm starting to get scared with this n950 scarcity Jun 21 17:25:09 Nokia will need to send personal bodyguards along with the devices Jun 21 17:27:45 I'm starting to think not everyone will get a device :P Jun 21 17:28:33 * javispedro shoots MohammadAG Jun 21 17:29:07 one competitor less Jun 21 17:29:33 anyone know how many N950s are going out to commercial devs? Jun 21 17:30:38 250 from MeeGo.com Jun 21 17:30:44 More from Nokia Developer Jun 21 17:31:09 that's one less dev to worry about :P Jun 21 17:31:12 yeah, I mean what does "More" mean? Jun 21 17:31:20 >250 Jun 21 17:31:28 "lots" was a term I saw used. Jun 21 17:31:36 very informative :) Jun 21 17:32:22 no, we're not commercial devs :P Jun 21 17:32:50 pabs3, I don't have an answer, sorry. Jun 21 17:33:05 Go talk to developer.nokia.com Jun 21 17:33:09 Not a bunch of losers on IRC. Jun 21 17:33:19 LOL >> Echo may be heard during some voice calls. This can be eliminated by turning speakerphone on and off during the call<< another OM deja-vu Jun 21 17:33:19 losers WITHOUT a device Jun 21 17:33:22 huh, there is a post claiming 92,000 N950s: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1034974&postcount=7255 Jun 21 17:33:35 GeneralAntilles, how you know it's 250? Jun 21 17:33:47 divan: it says so on the site :P Jun 21 17:33:48 250 seems a bit low for the open source devs if so :( Jun 21 17:33:52 javispedro, you applied? Jun 21 17:33:57 pabs3, prooflink? Jun 21 17:34:05 MohammadAG: not yet, I'm waiting for everyone else to die first Jun 21 17:34:12 a master plan I have. Jun 21 17:34:13 s/pabs3/rm_work/ Jun 21 17:34:13 divan meant: rm_work, prooflink? Jun 21 17:34:38 http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3597 Jun 21 17:34:45 omg the n950 actually exists.. Jun 21 17:35:02 divan: https://meego.com/community/device-program Jun 21 17:35:06 Units available: 250 Jun 21 17:36:06 hmmm Jun 21 17:36:12 what kind of init does harmattan use?? Jun 21 17:36:14 I do not recognize it Jun 21 17:36:17 rm_work, it's website bug :) Jun 21 17:36:22 lol sure Jun 21 17:36:25 it's been there for ages Jun 21 17:36:35 (commercial devices) it's probably safe to asume there will be at very least 1000..2000 devices from any serious preproduction run Jun 21 17:36:39 divan: not a website bug. that's the truth. Jun 21 17:36:52 possible more Jun 21 17:37:07 DocScrutinizer: elop is keeping them all for the grandchilds Jun 21 17:37:07 javispedro, it's pity. And how many units are available through Nokia Developers portal? Jun 21 17:37:19 divan: as GeneralAntilles said, >250. That's all we know. Jun 21 17:37:41 hrm, i know i'm already registered on meego.com, wth >_> Jun 21 17:37:45 as I said, >>250 Jun 21 17:38:07 And any information on Harmattan? What parts are actually from Maemo and what are from Meego? Jun 21 17:38:17 Sorry if you already discussed it today :) Jun 21 17:38:26 DocScrutinizer: I agree that a batch is probably on the thousands, but we do not know how many are available to launchpad and how many will be kept around for N other reasons Jun 21 17:38:42 indeed Jun 21 17:38:46 ah, init is upstart XP Jun 21 17:38:55 divan: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/unstable/beta/Fremantle_Update7_vs_Harmattan_Beta_content_comparison.html and http://build.meego.com/project/packages?project=MeeGo%3A1.2%3Aoss Jun 21 17:39:10 divan: that's not a complete list of harmattan packages though Jun 21 17:39:16 Stskeeps, thanks Jun 21 17:39:30 a lot of shared linux/qt packages but also big differences Jun 21 17:39:36 javispedro: btw friggin launchpad, I still fail to make my way there Jun 21 17:39:37 apt vs zypper, rpm vs dpkg Jun 21 17:39:43 Stskeeps: so, how funny/ridiculous/sad does this N950 > N9 feeling that's going around seem to you? lol Jun 21 17:40:05 rm_work: you should really try the hw. it's delicious. Jun 21 17:40:13 Stskeeps: the n9 or the n950? :P Jun 21 17:40:30 Stskeeps: that comparision has your personal touch, no? Jun 21 17:40:30 rm_work: both Jun 21 17:40:39 DocScrutinizer: hmm? Jun 21 17:40:50 Holy shit, Stskeeps is in #maemo. Jun 21 17:40:50 looks like it's done by you Jun 21 17:40:53 World's gonna end. Jun 21 17:40:55 Stskeeps: lol, I assume so :P hoping the N950 is actually *available* Jun 21 17:41:11 Stskeeps: well, maybe not Jun 21 17:41:11 DocScrutinizer: no, thank god, it's a script Jun 21 17:41:23 :-) Jun 21 17:41:48 I got hickup on reading "alsatools: removed" Jun 21 17:42:12 then I figured we probably can get them back any time Jun 21 17:42:47 I think not being in the base image means they are not used by the base firmware, so that is for the better. Jun 21 17:43:01 Stskeeps: i won't be caught dead with just a virtual keyboard >_> Jun 21 17:43:27 rm_work: maliit also has landscape vkb Jun 21 17:43:32 Stskeeps: or rather, if I am caught with one, i hope I AM dead... and there's a chance it might have been the cause Jun 21 17:44:31 I can see the headlines now: "Lack of Hardware Keyboard Causes Man's Death -- New Legislation Underway to Require Hardware Keyboards on Mobile Devices" Jun 21 17:44:32 :P Jun 21 17:44:49 only less person to worry about in the n950 BATTLE ROYALE! Jun 21 17:45:20 Did N9 Devkit was presented in Singapore? I saw 3 images of it over the net and they all differ. Jun 21 17:45:47 N9 was presented. Jun 21 17:45:56 N9 DevKit is N950 Jun 21 17:46:11 The N9 is to be a curvy thing with a rectangular slab of brightly coloured plastic as the base. Jun 21 17:46:20 SpeedEvil, I know about N9. Some news sites write then N950 (N9 devkit) was presented as well. But use old "leaked" photos. Jun 21 17:46:28 The n950 is not so shiny, and is the dev platform for the n950 Jun 21 17:46:31 n9 Jun 21 17:46:40 that's the same device Jun 21 17:46:50 MohammadAG, proof? Jun 21 17:46:53 except the leaked device had a 12MP camera Jun 21 17:47:52 ok, here is the first photo of N950 (I like most) - http://storage3.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0621/h_1308650003_5628d0de58.jpeg Jun 21 17:47:55 second - http://st.gsmarena.com/vv/newsimg/11/01/nokia-n9/big.jpg Jun 21 17:48:02 third - http://thenokiablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/nokia_n950_1.jpg Jun 21 17:48:11 even fourth - http://www.themobileindian.com/images/nnews/2011/06/1639_1.jpg Jun 21 17:48:12 yummy. Jun 21 17:48:51 third photo is actually is a screenshot from this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFAueZefAxk Jun 21 17:49:31 a few more screenshots: http://thenokiablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/nokia_n950_slide.jpg http://thenokiablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/nokia_n950_side.jpg http://thenokiablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/nokia_n950_up.jpg Jun 21 17:51:16 divan, i like that first one most too. Jun 21 17:52:08 divan: ver: The N950 is strongly expected to now look like http://www.nokiablog.ch/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/326932798.jpg Jun 21 17:52:28 Jaffa, sounds good. Jun 21 17:52:39 very nice Jun 21 17:53:03 If one could get a N950... Jun 21 17:53:28 * MohammadAG wonders when they'll start shipping Jun 21 17:53:39 any day now Jun 21 17:53:54 N9 devkit apply deadline is June 28th.. Jun 21 17:54:02 divan: the #3 link looks really odd Jun 21 17:54:15 DocScrutinizer, take a look at the video :) Jun 21 17:54:39 38C Jun 21 17:54:41 Ugh Jun 21 17:54:50 DocScrutinizer, looks like it was N950 with some modified plastics Jun 21 17:55:59 divan, yes, that's how N900 prototypes were Jun 21 17:56:08 it's just a plastic cover on it Jun 21 17:57:43 MohammadAG, I've seen today the comparsion table for N9 and N950 - it's has some hardware differences. Maybe rumour, don't know. Jun 21 17:58:04 divan: DocScrutinizer just linked me the official release Jun 21 17:58:06 well, a pastebin of it Jun 21 17:58:15 rumors? Nokia said what was going to be missing Jun 21 17:58:29 divan: http://pastebin.com/0SWqx8JL Jun 21 17:58:44 looks fairly legit to me Jun 21 17:58:53 It's freely described on developer.nokia.com Jun 21 17:59:41 rm_work, thanks Jun 21 18:00:43 rm_work: no pastebin: http://www.developer.nokia.com/dp?uri=http://sw.nokia.com/id/3744886f-69c1-4544-8ad3-72b352b4a832/Nokia_N950_OneClickFlashers_Release_Notes Jun 21 18:00:59 ok well, i applied to the meego device program for n950... *crosses fingers* Jun 21 18:01:09 i would honestly like to get ABL working on MeeGo Jun 21 18:01:17 then my project wouldn't just be stalled/dead like it is now Jun 21 18:01:36 rm_work: Looks accurate - but as DocScrutinizer says, go straight to the source Jun 21 18:01:58 Jaffa: lol, he's the one that linked it to me to begin with :P Jun 21 18:02:31 rm_work: He's playing with you like the puppetmaster that he is ;) Jun 21 18:02:33 * javispedro ponders what to put in "project name" in the request form Jun 21 18:02:49 javispedro: i put my project's name :P Jun 21 18:02:55 just to give you an idea ^_^ Jun 21 18:03:10 which one Jun 21 18:03:17 Advanced Backlight Jun 21 18:03:23 I want to get it working on MeeGo Jun 21 18:03:23 aah Jun 21 18:03:30 since I never got it working on Maemo5 Jun 21 18:03:32 so you're behind ABL? Jun 21 18:03:41 never connected dots Jun 21 18:03:43 yeah, I started it... and GA did the art :P Jun 21 18:03:51 I had to reverse engineer DSME >_< Jun 21 18:03:55 #%&^% Jun 21 18:04:06 not that it actually turned out to be that bad Jun 21 18:04:14 but just... dumb that it was necessary Jun 21 18:04:34 rm_work: indeed Jun 21 18:04:44 same thing with mce Jun 21 18:05:10 in Berlin i just spent my time hounding the poor devs about opening DSME Jun 21 18:05:16 :) Jun 21 18:05:25 Happy days Jun 21 18:05:25 and they kept saying "there's nothing in there, why do you care, it's useless" Jun 21 18:05:30 to which I just kried inside Jun 21 18:05:35 and then kept hounding :P Jun 21 18:05:55 hehe Jun 21 18:05:57 eventually they were like "OH, well, sure, THAT'S in there..." Jun 21 18:06:11 rm_work: we could hire you again, same thing is happening these days Jun 21 18:06:15 javispedro, was in the same situation, I just put one of my apps Jun 21 18:06:34 "oh well, look: mce's source" "but it doesn't have all the plugins!!" "why you want those? they do nothing! nothing!!!" Jun 21 18:06:34 lol Jun 21 18:06:42 T_T Jun 21 18:07:01 MohammadAG: I put one and then linked to maemo.org/downloads/ for the other two :) Jun 21 18:07:19 Jaffa: yeah, was sad I didn't make it to SF, but not sure i missed much Jun 21 18:07:30 javispedro: it'd be a LOL if it wasn't a :-( Jun 21 18:07:35 Jaffa: I guess I was sad I didn't make it to the other one in Spain too Jun 21 18:08:06 but GeneralAntilles and I have this thing, only one of us is actually allowed to be at any given Nokia related event Jun 21 18:08:14 it's cosmic law Jun 21 18:08:52 so you're the anti-GAN? Jun 21 18:09:20 will you annihilate when you meet? Jun 21 18:09:55 DocScrutinizer: something like that Jun 21 18:10:07 :-) Jun 21 18:10:15 DocScrutinizer: we'd probably hate each other and the meeting would end with both of us lying in a pool of blood Jun 21 18:10:28 tztztz Jun 21 18:10:52 Jaffa, linked to gitorious and maemo.org profile in the last field Jun 21 18:11:18 mo profile been my chice Jun 21 18:11:23 choice even Jun 21 18:11:49 Ah i should have linked to that too Jun 21 18:11:52 bah Jun 21 18:11:58 I wonder who actually goes through these applications Jun 21 18:12:03 I don't pity them Jun 21 18:12:10 there's so many levels of filtering... Jun 21 18:12:12 Texrat is one of them Jun 21 18:12:16 I blame myself for putting all my source in git.maemo.org, gitorious, github, svn.javis... , and my random crap folder. Jun 21 18:12:21 + qgil? Jun 21 18:12:32 + Dawn(?) Jun 21 18:12:37 like the random people who are like "free stuff gimmie" and don't even know what coding is Jun 21 18:12:40 Should be documented Jun 21 18:13:49 and then once they deal with all that crap, they have to look at the serious use cases and actually decide, with very little real information, who has the most important/useful/interesting projects and actually deserves the devices Jun 21 18:14:37 i'd admit to being on the lower end of THAT list, like i guess it'd be nice to have ABL on there but it's nothing revolutionary compared to someone who might have the next hit video streaming solution or something Jun 21 18:14:55 qgil said they've almost always got devices to people who "deserve" them in the 3 times so far Jun 21 18:15:05 ABL? Jun 21 18:15:17 Jaffa: sadly, that is not going to happen unless the 250 headcount is increased. Jun 21 18:15:21 am I the only one who uses that acronym? lol Jun 21 18:15:38 400 is min required Jun 21 18:15:42 I *always* called my project by that acronym and i tried to get everyone else to use it but i guess it never really stuck, lol Jun 21 18:16:02 so I just flashed my device to the pr1.3, and when trying to connect the wifi it keeps blinking, never connects, but the router is giving it an IP (I can see Nokia-N900 in the device table) Jun 21 18:16:04 SpeedEvil: ABL = Advanced Backlight Jun 21 18:16:19 "AB" was just too generic / lame Jun 21 18:16:51 Jaffa, I probably agree there. Jun 21 18:17:10 Ah. Jun 21 18:17:41 rm_work, it took a ridiculous amount of time for that idea to actually start being developed. Jun 21 18:17:52 * GeneralAntilles wonders where jott is these days. Jun 21 18:17:56 yeah Jun 21 18:18:02 i have a phone number for him still Jun 21 18:18:07 sometimes i feel like i should just call it Jun 21 18:18:12 i hope he hasn't died Jun 21 18:18:13 >_> Jun 21 18:19:01 who's jott? Jun 21 18:19:11 one of our ABL contributors Jun 21 18:19:24 it was basically me on code and GAN on design/art at first Jun 21 18:19:31 then daperl and jott contributed some patches Jun 21 18:19:37 rm_work: you ever pondered getting gamma in there? Jun 21 18:19:39 and then jott merged his rotation project with ABL Jun 21 18:19:51 DocScrutinizer: I could look into it Jun 21 18:20:02 DocScrutinizer: that'd be changing software stuff, not hardware tho Jun 21 18:20:10 esp for ALS multiplier Jun 21 18:20:10 so it'd require another completely seperate layer Jun 21 18:20:13 but it'd be doable Jun 21 18:20:35 MohammadAG: hi, so is it 250$ to buy the N950? Jun 21 18:20:35 DocScrutinizer: tell you what, i'll see if i can do that, if i get a device :P Jun 21 18:21:09 MohammadAG: I can find a friend to bring it from the us... want one? Jun 21 18:21:31 brb, calling jott :p Jun 21 18:21:54 swipe horizontally in the harmattan terminal to change color scheme Jun 21 18:21:57 fun fun. Jun 21 18:22:01 hellow people :) Jun 21 18:22:29 can anyone PLS give me the short list of what is going on now? Jun 21 18:22:42 did everyone decide the N9 is not relevent? Jun 21 18:22:51 are ppl ordering the N950? Jun 21 18:22:56 exactly ;-P Jun 21 18:22:57 develpers - that is Jun 21 18:22:59 hellow Jun 21 18:23:18 is anyone trying to install new flash on our N900? Jun 21 18:23:26 what is going on Jun 21 18:23:30 You cannot order the n9 Jun 21 18:23:33 cityLights: I like the N9 Jun 21 18:23:39 damn n800 reboots spontaneously every couple hours or so... anyone else have that problem? Jun 21 18:23:42 I NEED the keyborad.... Jun 21 18:23:43 in fact I'm pretty excited about the N9 Jun 21 18:23:48 You cannot strictly order the n950 either - you need to beg for one. Jun 21 18:24:02 unixSnob: have that with N810 Jun 21 18:24:04 n9 is like n8 ... noting special :D small screen Jun 21 18:24:30 if you think the N9 is the same as the N8, buy an N8 Jun 21 18:24:35 I was nearly sold out to the iphone 5, but now that the N9's specs have been unveiled, I'm pretty excited about it Jun 21 18:25:08 DocScrutinizer: ok, thanks.. just wanted to know if i did something weird to cause that. Jun 21 18:25:13 MohammadAG: I saw you have analyzed the spec and also got some flash unpacked Jun 21 18:25:21 what is your current verdict? Jun 21 18:25:46 unixSnob: I have definitely no good clue what's causing it - might be related to WLAN Jun 21 18:25:47 cityLights, I'm not buying an N950 from anyone Jun 21 18:26:05 no Jun 21 18:26:12 I would be surprised to see then N9 for sale before christmas. Jun 21 18:26:22 DocScrutinizer: well i keep my device in offline mode overnight, and it still reboots periodically Jun 21 18:26:22 I mean : would YOU buy one? Jun 21 18:27:06 unixSnob: ShadowJK claims it's frequently caused by old battery Jun 21 18:27:18 unixSnob / DocScrutinizer: my n800 reboots now too, i figured some solder got loose or something, because it even does it on a brand new flash :/ Jun 21 18:27:27 yeah possibly that Jun 21 18:27:49 like, the voltage drops randomly too low Jun 21 18:27:56 and it just triggers a reboot? Jun 21 18:28:03 DocScrutinizer: would you buy one? Jun 21 18:28:07 bme lockup or sth Jun 21 18:28:09 does anyone know how to put live desktop on n900? Jun 21 18:28:16 cityLights: i'd buy an n950, not an n9 Jun 21 18:28:18 cityLights: N950? nope Jun 21 18:28:57 N9? never ever Jun 21 18:29:03 I want my boss to buy me one , my reason is: ssh to the office and a linux env to test small scripts Jun 21 18:29:14 and also write cleaver tools Jun 21 18:29:14 called the number i had for jott, got some strange german automated recording, asked me to leave a newsmessage or something? so i said my name and then it said something else and hung up Jun 21 18:29:20 unfortunately my german sucks Jun 21 18:29:36 * RST38h yawns Jun 21 18:29:37 DocScrutinizer: at 250$ it seems a bargain Jun 21 18:29:38 cityLights: yeah i used mine a lot for work / personal server maintenance and such Jun 21 18:29:42 it is amazing for that Jun 21 18:29:47 rm_me, javispedro, Doc: reMoo Jun 21 18:29:52 i don't think it's actually $250? where would you have seen that Jun 21 18:29:55 RST38h: lol, hey Jun 21 18:29:58 heya RST38h Jun 21 18:30:06 i have to run to a meeting <_< bbiab Jun 21 18:30:08 cityLights: who told you 250? Jun 21 18:30:12 * rm_work is at work, after all Jun 21 18:30:17 Doc:Any new developments? Jun 21 18:30:25 cityLights: I heard sth of >600 Jun 21 18:30:31 I saw here the cost 250$ a few hours back.... Jun 21 18:30:34 RST38h: nah Jun 21 18:30:40 RST38h: mail client is called "fenix". be prepared to point your laser guns to it. Jun 21 18:30:53 cityLights: I think you saw "250" in relation to HOW MANY there are, not how much they cost >_> Jun 21 18:31:06 cityLights: specifically, how many there are in the meego device program Jun 21 18:31:18 anyway, bbl Jun 21 18:31:44 see ya Jun 21 18:31:50 javispedro: "laser guns" is a nice euphemism for it... Jun 21 18:31:54 at least Harmattan isn't giving the finger to all plain Qt devs Jun 21 18:32:26 yeah Jun 21 18:32:37 qtm pffff Jun 21 18:32:46 err Jun 21 18:32:51 QML Jun 21 18:33:10 though qtm is also pfff Jun 21 18:34:14 If old N800/N810 battery causes reboot, it happens repeatedly when you insert charger Jun 21 18:36:31 ShadowJK: yes, yes, any way to fix? please? Jun 21 18:38:03 new battery Jun 21 18:38:51 or weaker charger Jun 21 18:39:20 ok so its 250 usin- gor romunity devs andnokia has more units gor partners and progessional devs Jun 21 18:39:26 *units Jun 21 18:39:40 crap Jun 21 18:39:43 andnokia is what happens after google buys nokia? Jun 21 18:40:05 javispedro: nondroid! Jun 21 18:40:36 ok so its 250 units for community devs and nokia has more units for partners and professional devs Jun 21 18:41:43 not fair, I want to buy a N950 :( Jun 21 18:54:59 ShadowJK we all do Jun 21 18:55:43 there won't be enough for devs Jun 21 18:56:22 atleast the oss devs Jun 21 18:57:13 why cant they make 25000 and sell it Jun 21 18:57:28 I don't get it as well Jun 21 18:57:45 come on, the device isn't even out yet and people fall into the default trap of " It's linux, open source, so all the Maemo and MeeGo devs will eventually turn their heads to it and fill the gaps and provide apps." Jun 21 18:58:08 well other than we don't want to provide warranty&repair service for this device Jun 21 18:58:09 (in terms of replacing closed with open) Jun 21 18:58:57 ruskie, some people would say that's not a big change from the handling of N900 ;) Jun 21 18:59:31 Stskeeps: and only a year later they will open threads complaining about how that never happend and my device is as useless as the first day! Jun 21 18:59:33 and we bought them Jun 21 18:59:57 javispedro: well, at least we are ahead of the curve for once, since we have meego.com for them.. Jun 21 19:00:58 them being the new devices Jun 21 19:01:59 then they will complain that meego.com is a .rpm trollzone or some other ridiculous claim. Jun 21 19:02:05 sigh Jun 21 19:02:25 lesson number one i've learnt from the last years: you can never satisfy a community Jun 21 19:02:39 if they're a consumer-vendor relationship Jun 21 19:02:40 Stskeeps, thought this wasn't your chan anymore? Jun 21 19:02:46 lcuk: sshhhht! Jun 21 19:02:51 or if not n950 then N900i with fixed solder problems and 1G ram upgrade :P Jun 21 19:03:21 lcuk: i left tmo, not here, but i reserve my right to come by here once in a while :P Jun 21 19:03:29 heh Jun 21 19:03:59 http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Summer_Release Jun 21 19:04:02 Hmmm Jun 21 19:05:59 ShadowJK: ruskie: rumor has it Nokia got CE cert problems with N950 Jun 21 19:06:18 isn't CE self-certified ;) Jun 21 19:06:23 indeed Jun 21 19:07:23 dunno if it's been konttori who told it Jun 21 19:07:50 * ShadowJK wonders if this swipe gesture to go to open apps is handled by each app itself or by window manager Jun 21 19:08:02 ShadowJK: there's a mcompositor-swipe Jun 21 19:08:02 anyway O assume eventually they'll fix issues Jun 21 19:08:07 O* Jun 21 19:08:11 grrr Jun 21 19:08:14 I* Jun 21 19:09:47 :) Jun 21 19:09:48 * ShadowJK guesses easydebian still wont work though, without keyboard :) Jun 21 19:10:21 unless you get a nifty vkbd app running... Jun 21 19:10:58 * ShadowJK wonders if freoffice ever became usable Jun 21 19:11:05 I've been using gnumeric so far Jun 21 19:11:11 btw Jun 21 19:11:13 but I guess gtk stuff is offlimits Jun 21 19:11:22 some n9 screenshots Jun 21 19:11:24 show a "documents" app Jun 21 19:11:28 which I bet is freoffice Jun 21 19:11:34 freoffice/koffice Jun 21 19:11:47 ShadowJK, guessing os level Jun 21 19:12:00 since the photos app accidentally swipes to the main system panel Jun 21 19:12:02 instead of next photo Jun 21 19:12:09 javispedro, knowing past Nokia behaviour that might just be a simple text editor that saves in byteswapped ascii :) Jun 21 19:12:56 I forget, was koffice view-only and crippled format support? Jun 21 19:13:00 MohammadAG said that after I install a package , that adds .desktop file to the status UI it should appear Jun 21 19:13:05 however it doesnt Jun 21 19:13:08 why? Jun 21 19:13:31 cityLights, you have to put the .desktop file in the right place in file system Jun 21 19:13:39 right Jun 21 19:13:40 /usr/share/applications/hildon from memory Jun 21 19:13:46 and have all the right stuff in it Jun 21 19:14:26 status UI is the key Jun 21 19:14:38 /usr/share/applications/hildon-status-menu Jun 21 19:14:50 what is status UI? Jun 21 19:14:56 you, a nasty critter Jun 21 19:14:59 that would be it :P Jun 21 19:15:14 yoh actually Jun 21 19:15:18 sorry Jun 21 19:15:26 pls look in my deb package file: http://code.google.com/p/switch-profile-by-meeting/source/browse/trunk/src/makeSwitch.py Jun 21 19:15:56 in line 40 I tell it to put the file there, and indeed after a reboot the button is added to the menu Jun 21 19:16:01 cityLights: you need al the rifgt position numbers in that file Jun 21 19:16:05 but only after a reboot Jun 21 19:16:17 why? need I add something to the postintall? Jun 21 19:16:49 killall hildon-desktop, sth Jun 21 19:17:05 DocScrutinizer: I dont understand, pls tell me what to add to my control file Jun 21 19:17:56 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66251 Jun 21 19:18:02 Jaffa, time yet to get your TSG nomination rolling? Jun 21 19:18:54 thanks, time to read.... Jun 21 19:20:47 please don't use killall Jun 21 19:22:14 hi Jun 21 19:22:20 I remember you told me that Jun 21 19:22:39 as I put in line 46: #no need according to MohammadAG pkill status Jun 21 19:22:45 so how? Jun 21 19:23:13 never used python code for status applets Jun 21 19:23:20 tzafrir just tried to install it and the button is missing Jun 21 19:23:39 Tzafrir Jun 21 19:23:40 I'm guessing the deb's unpacking in a way where the desktop file is installed before the plugin Jun 21 19:23:56 oRacleisian`1013 Jun 21 19:24:06 oh the order is importent.... Jun 21 19:24:06 so I'd ask khertan or play with the install lines Jun 21 19:24:07 ok Jun 21 19:24:24 no no let me try to changer the order Jun 21 19:24:44 I can put it as the last line Jun 21 19:25:22 n950 is damn great, though i expected the screen (and keyboard!) to be 0.5" bigger, amoled and hdmi out Jun 21 19:25:27 in openvpn-applet I see: gtk-update-icon-cache /usr/share/icons/hicolor/ Jun 21 19:25:51 o ok I see he did a trick Jun 21 19:26:36 I saw it before and forgot to put it in the package, I used this in testing... Jun 21 19:26:38 ok Jun 21 19:27:11 gtk-update-icon-cache doesn't do anything since PR1.1 Jun 21 19:32:04 flasher -Owait-charging -f -F :) Jun 21 19:32:32 MohammadAG: here is what mikko did: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/debian/postinst?revision=88&root=openvpn-applet&view=markup Jun 21 19:38:24 SIMApplicationStyle Jun 21 19:38:30 icon-m-notification-sim-services Jun 21 19:38:41 that was a fremantle bug iirc Jun 21 19:39:18 s/bug/feature request Jun 21 19:39:43 http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/264053_10150197077222854_669187853_6912007_4412831_n.jpg Jun 21 19:39:52 my wedding pic :) Jun 21 19:40:25 congratulations :) Jun 21 19:41:42 thanks :) Jun 21 19:42:29 congratulations Jartza Jun 21 19:42:34 and mrs Jartza Jun 21 19:42:37 thanks :) Jun 21 19:42:57 Jartza: congrats Jun 21 19:43:08 Jartza: btw, you are showing the wrong finger :P Jun 21 19:43:29 how come? we're showing the ring finger :) Jun 21 19:43:41 GeneralAntilles: Turned the computer on to get it going Jun 21 19:43:54 Jartza: managing to make a wedding picture nsfw is no little feat ;) Jun 21 19:44:14 :D Jun 21 19:44:21 congrats! Jun 21 19:45:20 thanks all :) Jun 21 19:45:48 congrats Jartza :D Jun 21 19:45:58 nice finger Jun 21 20:07:31 mhm DocScrutinizer couldnt openmoko buy the n9 up .. maybe not now but in a year .. make it completely open :P Jun 21 20:07:50 okok .. forget it Jun 21 20:07:50 Openmoko corporate is currently pushing up dasies. Jun 21 20:07:59 It is not pining for the fjoords. Jun 21 20:08:13 It is not even resting. Jun 21 20:08:54 * cehteh wonders when the gta04 will be finally out (for consumers, not development samples) Jun 21 20:12:38 so, why exactly is nokia promoting qt while phasing out symbian? Jun 21 20:13:29 Shapeshifter: different groups in Nokia want different things Jun 21 20:14:21 Nokia is still promoting qt? Jun 21 20:14:30 nomis: http://blog.qt.nokia.com/2011/06/21/qt%E2%80%99s-future-for-nokia-bringing-apps-to-the-next-billion/ Jun 21 20:15:21 oh, from the wishful thinking department apparently. Jun 21 20:15:56 anyone wanna make a guitar tabs application? :P Jun 21 20:21:57 khertan: latest khweeteur doesn't install for me, postinst fails Jun 21 20:22:06 MohammadAG: There isn't one? :o Jun 21 20:22:14 Anyone got the Qt SDK updates working? Configuring a Harmattan qemu target on Linux doesn't seem to suggest a way of *starting* it Jun 21 20:23:01 Jaffa, javispedro in SB Jun 21 20:23:17 PolarFox, no, I was thinking of something to read ASCII tabs Jun 21 20:23:46 like the ones on ultimate-guitars Jun 21 20:24:01 err, ultimate-guitar Jun 21 20:25:32 MohammadAG: sounds interesting Jun 21 20:25:51 MohammadAG: I might do it if I have some spare time Jun 21 20:26:38 khertan: I made a bugreport (#826) Jun 21 20:26:58 MohammadAG: javispedro: I thought the Platform SDK wasn't going to be required to app development Jun 21 20:28:56 Jaffa, app development should not need platform sdk Jun 21 20:29:25 As long as it's qt app Jun 21 20:30:47 konttori_home: That's what I've thought. I've updated the Qt SDK; can see Harmattan qemu under "Maemo Device Configurations"; but can't add it to my existing project (nor choose it for a new project) Jun 21 20:31:39 konttori_home: Ah, there's an extra "Qt SDK > Experimental > Harmattan" checkbox under "Package Manager" Jun 21 20:35:01 Will Harmattan break my Fremantle SDK? Jun 21 20:35:42 anidel: Harmattan Platform SDK or App SDK? Jun 21 20:35:58 Platform Jun 21 20:37:17 anidel: It's Scratchbox. You know what that's like Jun 21 20:37:20 so Jun 21 20:37:23 mmmm Jun 21 20:37:32 almost 4500 comments on engadget relating to the N9 Jun 21 20:37:49 in less than a day Jun 21 20:45:04 Jaffa, yeah. There should be even remote debugging done right in there. I haven't yet used it myself. We use SB internally still. Looking forward to do some projects on summer vacation though Jun 21 20:45:13 * Arkenoi wonders what it takes to run gtk apps on n9/n950 Jun 21 20:45:47 gtk :) Jun 21 20:53:04 damn it won't install and Fremantle SDK is broken...great Jun 21 20:53:28 wait, no space left on device... Jun 21 21:02:42 hi! Jun 21 21:02:56 cehteh, otoh, with X in place, putting gtk to run in n9 shouldn't be too much of trouble Jun 21 21:03:14 konttori_home: great blog post Jun 21 21:03:25 anidel, thanks Jun 21 21:03:51 thanks to you guys. Jun 21 21:04:02 so i guess almost all n900 apps will run, except maybe some abandonware Jun 21 21:04:44 which kernels have been proved to work with ARM with a root fs on MicroSD? Jun 21 21:05:09 2.6.36.4 i keep getting Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0) but with 2.6.32.something it works fine Jun 21 21:05:22 same kernel config Jun 21 21:06:45 Evening Jun 21 21:06:53 AH HOY! \o Jun 21 21:09:22 :D Jun 21 21:11:39 that's weird..the gunzip -qt for the integrity test is fine,but then soon after the tar command says no such file or directory ???? Jun 21 21:12:31 ah I see I see... /tmp ..mmm Jun 21 21:12:49 Arkenoi, we changed the toolchain, with change in float support. All applications that use floats need to be recomplied, but I've been using many apps directly from fremantle repository. Jun 21 21:13:59 konttori_home, binary? that's great. it might be also possible to have some LD_PRELOAD wrapper for ones that broke? Jun 21 21:14:36 Yeah. Binaries work fine. And debs. So I have just installed directly from debs that are in the repo. Jun 21 21:15:26 just open terminal, type gainroot, and then start installing the debs. (Oh, and need to seelct the allow installation of unsigned debs from settings) Jun 21 21:17:46 Arkenoi: technically yes. It is absolutely hard though. Jun 21 21:17:59 I did something similar for one topsecret project of mine Jun 21 21:18:54 * GeneralAntilles wishes we had a ship date. Jun 21 21:19:07 GeneralAntilles: we do... later this year Jun 21 21:19:14 anidel, go die. Jun 21 21:19:19 that is a "ship year", not a ship date. Jun 21 21:19:20 GAN: Elop will have enough time to cancel it before it ships Jun 21 21:19:30 * anidel obeys Jun 21 21:19:45 omg just keep it quiet then, do not let elop realize what the company he rules is manufacturing Jun 21 21:19:47 I can't believe anybody could look at THAT and say "Man, this is shit. Let's get us some WP7!!" Jun 21 21:20:12 I still can't believe they didn't believe in MeeGo with this shiny UI Jun 21 21:20:33 probably the issue for them was to attract commercial apps? Jun 21 21:20:53 These demos look like they absolutely wipe the floor with iOS and Android. Jun 21 21:20:54 fakeselop already said that he'll be mad if anyone buys a n9. Jun 21 21:20:55 I mean. Jun 21 21:20:56 Holy shit Jun 21 21:21:07 konttori_home: I guess Harmattan and Fremantle won't coexist peacefully ? Jun 21 21:21:17 GeneralAntilles: as I was saying when I played with sdk I have to admit: it feels diferently. Jun 21 21:21:28 anidel, of course they will. Jun 21 21:21:31 anidel, fight to the death. Jun 21 21:21:37 maybe it's just because of the forced protrait =). but looks like a different thing. Jun 21 21:21:46 Nokia really made a crap N9 :( Jun 21 21:21:52 konttori_home: cool , will tell you if all my targets are still there and fine :) Jun 21 21:21:54 Just upload the same source to extras devel of fremantle and harmattan Jun 21 21:22:01 it'll be compiled to both. Jun 21 21:22:05 it's almost done... Jun 21 21:22:06 Portrait focus is stupid Jun 21 21:22:11 I want a pocket computer, not a phone. Jun 21 21:22:12 I mean locally Jun 21 21:22:15 konttori_home: Can Maemo 5 backups of Contacts, Calendars and wifi settings be restored in Harmattan? :) Jun 21 21:22:38 i guess forced portrait mode is temporary Jun 21 21:23:18 GeneralAntilles: can you ever decide yourself! first you wanted pervasive portrait support, now you want pervasive landscape support, make up your mind! Jun 21 21:23:20 >;P Jun 21 21:23:27 Contacs and calendar entries are transferred if you use switch. Hmm... and emails afaik. Jun 21 21:23:31 javispedro, I never wanted any such thing! Jun 21 21:23:33 But not wlan settings Jun 21 21:23:37 Quit putting whines in my mouth! Jun 21 21:23:39 Xournal on the Fremantle target won't compile anymore :( Jun 21 21:23:53 and the backups are not compatible, so you need to use switch "application" in N9 settings Jun 21 21:24:05 Ten put BT on on both and follow the instructions Jun 21 21:24:24 configure: error: cannot find install-sh or install.sh in "." "./.." "./../.." Jun 21 21:24:40 GeneralAntilles, we made intentionally full landscape support to be a themable element. Jun 21 21:24:44 anidel: autoreconf -fi Jun 21 21:24:50 (maybe ... ) Jun 21 21:24:54 konttori_home: That didn't work so good between a C7 and a broken USB-ported N900 last week :-/ Jun 21 21:25:05 konttori_home, does the task switcher support landscape? Jun 21 21:25:09 So, you can create a theme that makes home and lock screens support also landscape Jun 21 21:25:11 konttori_home: But good to know, thanks Jun 21 21:25:24 yeah, it does. ... if you create a theme that asks it to support Jun 21 21:25:28 But that's not true out of the box? Jun 21 21:25:31 No Jun 21 21:25:34 Ugh Jun 21 21:25:44 if the UI is as open as hildon, adding landscape mode shouldn't be hard Jun 21 21:25:45 javispedro: it is manufacturing money Jun 21 21:25:46 Believe me, we thought about that a lot Jun 21 21:25:47 cehteh: that generates them, but a dpkg-buildpackage removes them Jun 21 21:25:59 It's the part that we wanted as flawless experience as possible Jun 21 21:26:09 javispedro:and Elop is an effective manager that will make it manufacture more money Jun 21 21:26:13 anidel: then the rules are borked Jun 21 21:26:15 javispedro: by selling it off =) Jun 21 21:26:17 Devices that want to dictate how you use them are unfortunate. Jun 21 21:26:18 and supporting both orientations would cause rotation needs when user is looking at switcher Jun 21 21:26:38 I just installed Harmattan Platform SDK and I think it broke Fremantle Jun 21 21:26:54 and there was no good way to make that look impeckable. So, we made the call to go full out portrait Jun 21 21:27:09 anidel: it should not Jun 21 21:27:16 javispedro: well it did Jun 21 21:27:25 anidel: it is more "isolated" than diablo->fremantle, less chances for breakage ;) Jun 21 21:27:31 what's the problem? Jun 21 21:27:32 So, we decided to make it an option. I think it was the right thing to do. Jun 21 21:27:35 night now all Jun 21 21:27:40 javispedro: I can't buildpackage anymore Jun 21 21:27:43 nite konttori_home , pleased to have you here! Jun 21 21:28:12 anidel: error message? Jun 21 21:28:22 one sec I'll pastebin it Jun 21 21:28:23 and are you on x86 or armel? Jun 21 21:28:25 o Jun 21 21:28:29 k Jun 21 21:28:46 X86 btw Jun 21 21:29:07 http://pastebin.com/rpwXAGNk Jun 21 21:29:25 Line 47: aclocal-1.8 command not found Jun 21 21:29:25 uuh. Jun 21 21:29:34 ah it's 1.9 Jun 21 21:29:57 I do have /scratchbox/tools/autotools though Jun 21 21:30:15 autogen.sh was using -1.8 for aclocal and automake Jun 21 21:30:20 removed -1.8 and it's working.. Jun 21 21:30:41 that find thing doesn't look right either Jun 21 21:30:45 yeah Jun 21 21:30:52 you should try and update the debian devkits to hathor too Jun 21 21:30:56 if you did not previously Jun 21 21:31:01 I mean the sarge, etc. Jun 21 21:31:06 or use the squeeze one for fremantle Jun 21 21:31:07 didn't touch it for a while :) Jun 21 21:31:09 (it also works Jun 21 21:31:09 ) Jun 21 21:33:33 Did the FCC post the RM-680 manuals yet? Jun 21 21:33:51 do they have to? Jun 21 21:33:54 also, manuals, pfft. Jun 21 21:34:43 Confidentiality is up Jun 21 21:36:15 GeneralAntilles: Later this week, isn't it? Jun 21 21:36:22 Dunno. Jun 21 21:37:45 ... Now I only want you gone.... Jun 21 21:37:54 that's probably what elop is singing now to Meego. Jun 21 21:38:02 ... Go make some new disaster ... Jun 21 21:40:11 I got a bazillion dollars by moving to WP7, ... it's such a shame the same thing won't happen to you ... Jun 21 21:40:13 stupid song. Jun 21 21:40:18 get out of my head! Jun 21 21:41:00 so uhm I gues there's an emulator...how do I start it? Jun 21 21:41:22 anidel: sbox is not an emulator! Jun 21 21:41:34 anidel: enter harmattan_x86 target, start xephyr as usual, Jun 21 21:41:35 "there is an" not "is an" :P Jun 21 21:41:50 but yeah.. you're right :p Jun 21 21:42:22 export DISPLAY=:2 (usually) Jun 21 21:42:25 meego-sb-session start Jun 21 21:42:28 enjoy. Jun 21 21:42:39 run-standalone.sh seems to have been replaced with meego-run Jun 21 21:42:51 Awww Jun 21 21:42:51 ah ok Jun 21 21:43:07 I already miss run-standalone.sh Jun 21 21:43:19 Jaffa: I already aliased it ;P Jun 21 21:43:22 Proves it'snot Maemo ;) Jun 21 21:44:06 I plan to keep on devving for diablo/fremantle for a while, so muscle memory will suffer if I have to remember to type run- or meego-r Jun 21 21:44:36 no meego-sb-session.. need to install some nokia stuff as it was for Fremantle I guess? Jun 21 21:44:40 does maemo5 work with enterprise wpa2? Jun 21 21:44:56 anidel: no, I hadn't, everything was on the rootstrap Jun 21 21:45:03 anidel: did you an automated install? Jun 21 21:45:37 it's there... I am running a script, something must be wrong.. let me check Jun 21 21:46:24 starting :) Jun 21 21:46:43 "AP denied association (code=12) Jun 21 21:46:46 the script was selecting FREMANTLE_X86 instead of Harmattan :p Jun 21 21:47:02 pwnguin: should. Jun 21 21:47:18 hmm Jun 21 21:47:25 this is new Jun 21 21:47:29 its asking me for a cert password Jun 21 21:47:31 stupid Acer. Jun 21 21:47:51 me: "I need a driver update to install W7 SP1. MS has blacklisted your driver." Acer: so sue us. Jun 21 21:48:28 ... aaaaand, ive killed the wifi chiop Jun 21 21:48:44 /driver Jun 21 21:50:15 cool.. everything is up and running.. now I need to work on Xournal to make it run :( Jun 21 21:51:02 anidel: was it Gtk+? :) Jun 21 21:51:12 javispedro: of course :) Jun 21 21:51:14 (I mean, I Know it originally was) Jun 21 21:51:40 anidel: plan to rewrite, or...? Jun 21 21:52:08 "AP denied association (code=17) Jun 21 21:52:18 javispedro: not sure yet.. but mostly yeah. There's a guy on xournal-dev who rewrote Xournal in C++ but it's still WIP.. I might use that as a base Jun 21 21:52:53 I still need more indoctrination to be able to throw gtk+ code bases ;P Jun 21 21:54:10 :) Jun 21 21:54:31 god Jun 21 21:54:43 when the N9 was being teased Jun 21 21:54:49 i was so hoping it would only be in black Jun 21 21:54:50 I had to port libgnomecanvas to Maemo to make Xournal work. Using the Xournal++ +Qt would save me the hassle Jun 21 21:54:54 but the blue variant Jun 21 21:54:58 it looks so good Jun 21 21:55:03 anidel: you didn't use cairo? Jun 21 21:55:09 ah, It wasn't available either back then Jun 21 21:55:11 I bet. Jun 21 21:55:11 it just looks better than black Jun 21 21:55:21 i dont know why Jun 21 21:55:25 javispedro: nope as it was the code base from the Nokia 770 Jun 21 21:55:27 i hate colorful cases Jun 21 21:55:36 but it just looks better Jun 21 21:55:44 anyway...it needed a rewrite anyway.. Jun 21 21:55:53 the whole logic and UI were not separated at all Jun 21 21:55:56 a bit of a mess Jun 21 21:56:04 pure C and GTK from the guy who wrote it Jun 21 21:56:20 switching to Fremantle meant a huge rewrite of the UI Jun 21 21:56:30 and now.. again.. but I guess it shall be faster with Qt Jun 21 21:56:54 javispedro: this is the idea of next Xournal: https://picasaweb.google.com/anidel/XournalNextGenUI Jun 21 21:57:01 more or less Jun 21 21:57:23 planning to use Qt or QML? Jun 21 21:57:27 it looks iphoneish ;P Jun 21 21:57:30 QML possibly Jun 21 21:57:36 (which might be good considering the target palatform ;P ) Jun 21 21:57:45 tsk tsk :P Jun 21 21:57:48 javispedro: was made by Patricia (Brasil) at the Barcelona event :) Jun 21 21:57:54 MohammadAG: what? Jun 21 21:58:50 nothing, I'm just anti-QML :P Jun 21 21:58:54 why? Jun 21 21:59:17 high memory usage, way too much stuff to be reimplemented rather than reused Jun 21 21:59:21 I mean, I now nothing still about QML, QtQuick or pure Qt Widgets.. so :) I'm open to suggestions Jun 21 21:59:35 and I dislike interpretted languages Jun 21 21:59:54 me too, but it looked cool :P I still have to study it though Jun 21 22:00:03 that's why the "possibly" Jun 21 22:00:14 well, give QML a go at first I suppose Jun 21 22:00:32 will see Jun 21 22:02:28 cool Xournal promoted to Testing... hope to get the 10 votes asap as the Extras version is sooooo oold Jun 21 22:04:17 is there an faq about the n9 and n950? i'm actually quite confused about the two. Jun 21 22:05:27 http://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/3744886f-69c1-4544-8ad3-72b352b4a832/Nokia_N950_OneClickFlashers_Release_Notes.html Jun 21 22:05:31 n950 is n9 with 4" tft, keyboard, no nfc and black aluminium casing. Jun 21 22:06:16 anidel: same as me. Jun 21 22:06:27 (not really tried maemo qt, qt quick or qt slow) Jun 21 22:06:42 :) Jun 21 22:06:54 time is an issue here Jun 21 22:07:34 anidel Arkenoi thanks Jun 21 22:07:58 anidel: yes... it wasn't in n900 days :( Jun 21 22:08:04 at least for me. Jun 21 22:08:08 why no nfc i do not really get Jun 21 22:08:14 a few slightly blurred photos of N950 from presentation in Moscow: http://s54.radikal.ru/i143/1106/c2/0c5cac51365e.jpg http://s014.radikal.ru/i327/1106/01/fc527d975e3e.jpg http://s52.radikal.ru/i135/1106/37/6075f653f676.jpg http://s009.radikal.ru/i310/1106/41/f3bf2b482949.jpg Jun 21 22:08:27 javispedro: for me neither..had much time to dedicate to it... Jun 21 22:08:39 I mean Xournal is READY NOW... when the N9 is out :) bit late :p Jun 21 22:08:52 still got 233+k downloads according to the Maemo Downloads page! Jun 21 22:10:19 :) Jun 21 22:10:44 sorry but what is nfc? Jun 21 22:11:03 Near Field Communication Jun 21 22:11:30 gotta go.. later guys Jun 21 22:11:33 ah Jun 21 22:11:50 divan, wow that is a large device Jun 21 22:12:06 i thought it was a lot thinner than that Jun 21 22:14:20 also the N950 is still a primarily portrait device Jun 21 22:14:42 Sazpaimon_, i think it will be fixed soon Jun 21 22:15:11 I hope so, because this: http://mobilenet.cz/obrazek/nokia-n950-62145/ is a little embarrasing Jun 21 22:15:31 oh hey Jun 21 22:15:38 is that a terminal app I spy down there? Jun 21 22:16:21 yes, terminal is there Jun 21 22:16:50 http://mobilenet.cz/obrazek/nokia-n950-62157/ also looks like the 12 MP AF text is no more Jun 21 22:16:56 whatever happened to that Jun 21 22:17:28 n950 looks awesome, even without amoled :) Jun 21 22:17:41 man Jun 21 22:17:50 that looks awesome, too bad it'll be mostly impossible to get :/ Jun 21 22:17:50 Sazpaimon_: launcher rotates on SDK here Jun 21 22:17:54 for a few next years that's exactly that phone which we need :) Jun 21 22:18:01 wmarone, I know, yeah Jun 21 22:18:07 all the N9's guts, in that case, would be win Jun 21 22:18:08 javispedro, what the hell then Jun 21 22:18:14 Elop is bitch Jun 21 22:18:17 well, more win than the N9 or N950 alone Jun 21 22:18:52 Sazpaimon_: http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/harmattansdk/sdk1.png Jun 21 22:18:53 He wan't to say at the end of the year - "see, not so many programs and contributions to the harmatta, so we'll close the project" Jun 21 22:19:21 the icons look so silly with those ultra-round corners Jun 21 22:19:25 s/wan't/wants/ Jun 21 22:19:25 divan meant: He wants to say at the end of the year - "see, not so many programs and contributions to the harmatta, so we'll close the project" Jun 21 22:19:27 for kidz Jun 21 22:19:51 s/harmatta/harmattan Jun 21 22:20:09 s/harmattan/manhattan/ amirite Jun 21 22:20:51 elop seems to read engadget comments a lot Jun 21 22:21:07 because he specifically mentioned engadget commenters response to the WP7 strategy Jun 21 22:21:31 maybe 2000+ positive comments in less than 24 hours would be nice Jun 21 22:21:56 how about a positive preview from vlad of all people Jun 21 22:21:59 he hates nokia Jun 21 22:22:14 eeek! on cnet they say $660 16gb and $749 64gb and availablle at the end of year Jun 21 22:22:28 Sazpaimon_, twitition on that: http://twitition.com/3c3ah Jun 21 22:22:31 Sazpaimon_: elop, where? Jun 21 22:22:56 loft306, those could very well be the EUR prices with tax Jun 21 22:22:57 loft306, it's rumours. Even Nokia insiders do not know the price. Jun 21 22:23:12 there's no way nokia could sell this device for $749 Jun 21 22:23:18 It's the subject for discussions at the moment, as I know. Jun 21 22:23:19 justrrepeatiung what i read Jun 21 22:23:45 i wouldnt pay that Jun 21 22:24:18 Sazpaimon_: between the two posts there are over 3700 comments Jun 21 22:24:20 divan, petitions Jun 21 22:24:29 internet petitions Jun 21 22:24:40 omg Jun 21 22:24:47 find me one internet petition that got something done Jun 21 22:24:51 thew new bugs.maemo.org: http://www.developer.nokia.com/bugs/ Jun 21 22:24:59 Friend of mine asked Nokia people in Moscow whether USB Host Mode will be available on N9 and was told yes. Jun 21 22:25:25 Sazpaimon_, just sign )) Jun 21 22:25:29 no Jun 21 22:25:37 i dont support online petitions Jun 21 22:26:01 Remind me how many petitions for maemo succeeded? :P Jun 21 22:26:06 all of them! Jun 21 22:26:09 you know what would get nokia to continue to support meego? Jun 21 22:26:12 specially that one where we asked for it to be killed Jun 21 22:26:17 if all of their shareholders told them to do it Jun 21 22:27:21 or, if you get every single person in europe to sign that petition Jun 21 22:27:28 divan: actually the answer was it is available but "inofficial" and requires hacks Jun 21 22:27:33 oh wait, I can just flood the petition with fake signatures Jun 21 22:28:04 the market will decide if nokia will continue to use meego or not Jun 21 22:28:09 not us Jun 21 22:29:01 i also dont have a twitter account Jun 21 22:29:07 someone registered sazpaimon Jun 21 22:29:20 apparently to piss me off because he said i was "cracking symbian apps" Jun 21 22:29:37 Sazpaimon_, thanks for link to mobilenet.sz Jun 21 22:29:39 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8jH_apD2k Jun 21 22:29:47 when all I did was repack nokia podcasting from an E75 so other S60 v3 FP2 devices could use it Jun 21 22:30:21 Aranel, 'required hacks' is ok for us :) Jun 21 22:31:05 what's that notch next to the A key Jun 21 22:31:15 for locking the keyboard? Jun 21 22:31:25 the outfit is surprisingly similar to e7. even more similar than old prototypes that had huge screen seen on the internets Jun 21 22:31:38 nope doesnt look like its for locking Jun 21 22:31:53 maybe it was supposed to have an N9 sticker on it Jun 21 22:33:48 i guess i should get a microsim within the next fwe months Jun 21 22:33:50 or at least cut mine Jun 21 22:33:59 does the N950 do microsim? Jun 21 22:34:04 nobody seemed to mention that Jun 21 22:34:46 i doubt cargo cult goes that far Jun 21 22:35:12 but external dimensions for n9 is _exactly_ iphone 4 Jun 21 22:35:37 i thought the N9 was a smidge wider than the i4 Jun 21 22:36:11 well that means they could have fit a slightly smaller batter and made the phone even smaller Jun 21 22:36:20 s/batter/battery Jun 21 22:36:41 also still no word on skype integration Jun 21 22:36:44 but its looking like no Jun 21 22:36:54 Sazpaimon_, it is there Jun 21 22:37:01 link? Jun 21 22:37:10 ive yet to see it advertised Jun 21 22:37:14 no link, just hearsay Jun 21 22:37:20 would have also liked to have seen qik support Jun 21 22:37:34 so you could videochat with android users Jun 21 22:37:50 but they say all maemo communication plugins are still there including skype Jun 21 22:38:02 that's cool at least Jun 21 22:38:35 man i hope nokia approves my company's launchpad request Jun 21 22:38:38 * javispedro still needs to write ddp application =) Jun 21 22:39:59 The prices for N900 are rising. Jun 21 22:41:27 http://twitter.com/#!/texrat/statuses/83187538411532288 <3 texrat Jun 21 22:43:44 Sazpaimon_: skype sucks Jun 21 22:44:04 and besides, any word on release date for n9? Jun 21 22:44:20 soon Jun 21 22:47:11 hmm, cortex-a8 Jun 21 22:47:13 unexpected Jun 21 22:47:18 i was really hoping for a9 Jun 21 22:47:57 jacekowski: as was I, alas it was now or never for this one Jun 21 22:50:11 looks iphoneish Jun 21 22:51:58 jacekowski: looks and feels iphoneish Jun 21 22:52:09 and I do agree that the omap3630 is meh... Jun 21 22:52:18 but we expected that, don't we... Jun 21 22:52:42 well, with all that fuss about canceling it and stuff you would expect that they redesigned everything Jun 21 22:52:51 including a9 Jun 21 22:53:04 I think the "cancel" was only the N950 over the hinge Jun 21 22:53:16 jacekowski: I think that moving to a9 means leaving TI Jun 21 22:53:16 a10 is on the doorstep Jun 21 22:53:28 javispedro: why? Jun 21 22:53:37 ti is doing a9 Jun 21 22:53:46 jacekowski: in the sense that Nokia won't accept OMAP4, so they'd had to do the WP7-mandated chip Jun 21 22:54:03 (Qualcomm iirc) Jun 21 22:54:09 why they wouldn't accept omap4? Jun 21 22:54:16 I think you mean Microsoft Jun 21 22:54:22 wmarone: yes. Jun 21 22:54:31 jacekowski: just a feeling. Jun 21 22:54:48 I'm sure Nokia would be perfectly fine going OMAP4, but Microsoft controls everything about the hardware for WP7 Jun 21 22:54:55 jacekowski: I'll shut up when Nokia ships something new outside of Maemo with a new TI chip Jun 21 22:55:21 they are rumoring that the Nokia WP7 devices will use the ST-Ericsson A9 chips Jun 21 22:55:21 (also, TI moved straight to A15 instead of A10) Jun 21 22:55:46 are the ST-E A9's crippled? Jun 21 22:55:53 ds3: how would they be? Jun 21 22:55:59 hmm, how much memory does it have Jun 21 22:56:07 the N's are missing useful bits Jun 21 22:56:19 512 or 1G? Jun 21 22:56:44 ds3: no clue Jun 21 22:57:13 do you really want an A9 though Jun 21 22:57:56 well, all we have in n9 is "overclocked" n900 Jun 21 22:59:10 jacekowski: slightly less consuming due to reduced die size Jun 21 23:17:05 * javispedro hesitates before clicking the submit request button Jun 21 23:17:57 ds3, N stands for No something :-) Jun 21 23:20:17 javispedro, (GLaDOS voice) press it! Jun 21 23:20:27 DON'T PRESS THAT BUTTON!!! Jun 21 23:20:52 PRESS IT Jun 21 23:21:05 no don't DO IT Jun 21 23:21:26 (some Nokian) Hahaha, step 5, boobytrap the Nokia N950 Jun 21 23:21:41 FOUR PART PLAN PART FIVE! Jun 21 23:21:45 haha Jun 21 23:22:38 BOOBYTRAP THE REQUEST DEVELOPER DEVICE BUTTON! Jun 21 23:23:03 In other news, Elop aims for the moon, in slowmo Jun 21 23:23:20 Elop: MEEGO DEVS, ARE YOU STILL ALIVE?? YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!! Jun 21 23:23:44 Elop: WELL, I?M STILL IN CONTROL, AND I HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO FIX THIS COMPANY!! Jun 21 23:24:07 I wonder if Portal 2 was based on Nokia's story Jun 21 23:24:08 hey, this works. Jun 21 23:24:26 xD Jun 21 23:25:14 Elop: YOU HAD TO PLAY YOUR BLOODY OPENSOURCE GAMES, WHILE PEOPLE WERE TRYING TO WORK!! Jun 21 23:25:34 who's Chell in this case? Jun 21 23:25:54 oh right MeeGo devs, so who's glados? :P Jun 21 23:26:03 MohammadAG, who are we gonna turn into an AI? Jun 21 23:26:17 I vote Darius2006 Jun 21 23:26:23 Elop: BANKRUPTCY! BANKRUPTCY! WE'RE BANKRUPT! LET GO! LET GO! I STILL HAVE FRIENDS IN MICROSOFT. I CAN STILL PULL ME IN. I CAN STILL FIX THIS!!! Jun 21 23:26:57 javispedro, the idea came to him while he was "PWNING NUBS" on Live. Jun 21 23:27:46 MohammadAG: clearly Intel: "I though you were my worst enemy, but now I think you're my best friend" Jun 21 23:28:07 and Caroline? Jun 21 23:28:14 Caroline? Jun 21 23:28:30 * merlin1991 seems to have missed something while playin Jun 21 23:28:32 Intel: you know how was life before you Meego appeared? I just shipped tablets. Nobody tried to kill me. Or convert me into a Handset. Or fed me to Microsoft." Jun 21 23:28:41 merlin1991, impossible Jun 21 23:28:42 s/tablets/netbooks ;P Jun 21 23:28:50 Ha Jun 21 23:28:50 it was in 4 chapters of the game Jun 21 23:29:03 ah the assistant Jun 21 23:30:41 javispedro: Nokia and microsoft. http://blog.chron.com/goodmombadmom/2011/06/in-all-fairness-babies-are-delicious/ Jun 21 23:30:58 * MohammadAG waits for javispedro to do the "goodbye, moblin" Jun 21 23:31:01 mh. now that i've seen the n950 in a video, I have to say, it's really sexy. and the animations look smooth at least, not as jerky as on the n900. nice nice Jun 21 23:31:30 it ryhmes with caroline after all :P Jun 21 23:32:12 MohammadAG: not yet sure if I should cast moblin as caroline Jun 21 23:32:25 javispedro, but it ryhmes! Jun 21 23:32:40 caroline is something like the intel software division Jun 21 23:32:43 a part of intel Jun 21 23:32:55 k, fill this in, The surge of emotion that shot through me when I saved your life taught me an even more valuable lesson Jun 21 23:32:56 it has to make sense, not rhyme! ;) Jun 21 23:34:15 Intel: The next to nothing sales that shot through me when I decided to merge with Maemo taught me an even more valuable lesson: where the money sink lives inside my company.... software division _DELETED_ ;P Jun 21 23:35:09 javispedro, this should be a blog post xD Jun 21 23:36:10 and obviously the companion cube is abill_uk. Jun 21 23:36:35 "Oops, I fizzled that one too." Jun 21 23:36:36 LOL Jun 21 23:39:13 Cara bel, cara mia bella! Che Maestima! Che Maestima! Jun 21 23:39:45 La mia bambina cara.... perché non resistive?? Jun 21 23:40:16 Goddamn baby Jun 21 23:40:17 http://cdn6.fonearena.com/i/n9/b/NokiaN9Michael043.jpg Jun 21 23:40:36 GeneralAntilles: that baby has more chances than we do to get a n9devkit! Jun 21 23:41:00 this reminds me to PRESS THE BUTTON Jun 21 23:41:10 They should just mail an N950 to everybody with an active meego.com account. Jun 21 23:42:25 GeneralAntilles: guess that's because it would include you too? :D Jun 21 23:42:37 RATIONAL SELF INTEREST Jun 21 23:42:54 GeneralAntilles: WELL YOU HAVE BEEN REPLACED! Jun 21 23:42:58 I DON'T NEED ANYONE NOW Jun 21 23:43:05 WHEN I DELETE YOU I MIGHT HAVE ... Jun 21 23:43:09 ok, stop. Jun 21 23:43:12 Ha Jun 21 23:43:28 javispedro, it's after midnight, right? Jun 21 23:43:35 yes, I need sleep. Jun 21 23:43:44 Go, fly! Jun 21 23:49:40 http://www.google.com/search?q=nokia+hatterman Jun 21 23:49:45 ok, I hit the button. see you and good luck everyone. Jun 21 23:49:48 * MohammadAG puts javispedro in a potato Jun 21 23:49:54 night javispedro :P Jun 21 23:49:54 about 1000 people dont know how to spell Jun 21 23:50:22 they should have called it Hatterman though Jun 21 23:50:40 then whenever it goes wrong you could yell "HATTERMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN" Jun 21 23:52:48 Hamrattan Jun 21 23:57:37 * SpeedEvil ponders if the n950 supports partially backlighting hte screen Jun 21 23:59:57 I hope so, because this: h is a little embarrasingoh Jun 22 00:00:02 N9 DOES have swype Jun 22 00:00:13 i saw a video with swype settings Jun 22 00:04:07 Liar. Jun 22 00:04:51 GeneralAntilles, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qkf4iaQyHg&feature=player_detailpage#t=368s Jun 22 00:05:06 * GeneralAntilles covers ears and yells "La La La" Jun 22 00:05:12 it doesnt work in this video though Jun 22 00:06:12 n950? will that ever be available to mere mortals? Jun 22 00:06:20 nox-, no Jun 22 00:06:28 it'll be available on loan to developers only Jun 22 00:06:51 hm ok Jun 22 00:17:30 what was the developer page for the N9 again? Jun 22 00:17:42 I want to try the SDK Jun 22 00:19:52 nevermind, "nokia n9 site:developer.nokia.com" on google found it Jun 22 01:07:26 hey anyone want an n900 with broken screen, broken usb? Jun 22 01:09:01 :/ Jun 22 01:09:04 pauly_: broken usb might be a claim on warranty Jun 22 01:09:22 Sure - but you'd probably get a non-zero amount for it on ebay. Jun 22 01:11:35 lol @ my nickname Jun 22 01:11:55 um speedevil: wanna offer me anything? Jun 22 01:12:12 Alas - no. Jun 22 01:12:37 It'd be more a random hack project than anything I can justify spending any money at all on. Jun 22 01:12:51 Ebay - if it's not warrantable would get you at least some cash. Jun 22 01:13:06 ya think? Jun 22 01:13:13 Sure. Jun 22 01:13:31 i wanna buy and sell cell phones off craigslist its crazy so many people Jun 22 01:13:48 how did u like the N9 Jun 22 01:14:48 http://desc.shop.ebay.com/Cell-Phones-Smartphones-/9355/i.html?LH_TitleDesc=1&_nkw=n900+%28faulty%2Cspares%2C%22not+working%22%2Cbroken%2Ccracked%29&_catref=1&_dmpt=PDA_Accessories&_fln=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282 Jun 22 01:14:58 Looks good. Jun 22 01:15:49 speedevil: lol at the white n900 Jun 22 01:18:01 speedevil: i ahve to get the data off of it but im to lazy, 8gb sd card and like 20gb data on it.anyone wanna talk to me im bored Jun 22 01:19:30 Sorry - at the moment I've got no heating on - and it's 14C in here - currently on a very low income, so I'm regrettably able to offer nothing. Jun 22 01:20:31 woah Jun 22 01:21:57 speedevil: can i ask u something its a crazy question but in most irc channels why are so many people in a channel and no one is chatting, ive never understood this? Jun 22 01:23:31 Simply as most are at this time asleep. Jun 22 01:24:19 speedevil: why dont they log out? Jun 22 01:24:31 7 hours ago - looking back in scroll - there were 6 people talking, and a page went by in 5 mins. Jun 22 01:24:43 Because they can read the past discussions when they were away. Jun 22 01:24:51 Their computer may also go beep if you highlight them. Jun 22 01:24:53 ohhhh Jun 22 01:25:19 There are many more people active about 4 hours ago Jun 22 01:25:22 but theyed have to have there device or pc on all this time? Jun 22 01:25:27 It's 4:23 in here atm Jun 22 01:25:32 pauly___: their pc needs to be on :) Jun 22 01:26:02 pauly___: many get free or paid shells, where they can run irssi, so their irc program is ran on a remote host, and they can connect to it when they like, without wasting electricity on their end Jun 22 01:26:18 I stay online because my client runs remotely, and that allows me to scroll back and read the context of current conversations Jun 22 01:26:27 ohhhhhhhh Jun 22 01:26:32 another advantage of runing a remote client is that I can ssh in and resume the session from my cell phone Jun 22 01:26:33 i understand Jun 22 01:26:48 I run irssi on my home server, works wonders :D Jun 22 01:26:52 or from work Jun 22 01:27:33 besides, I'm on other channels too Jun 22 01:27:38 makes sence Jun 22 01:27:52 thanks so much for the info Jun 22 01:31:25 will the n9's meego/harmattan be available for the n900? Jun 22 01:32:27 * SpeedEvil looks at his magic-8-ball. Jun 22 01:32:32 Ask again later. Jun 22 01:32:32 hahaha Jun 22 01:32:40 I think it's very unlikely. Jun 22 01:33:00 Impossible - no. Jun 22 01:33:08 yes an insider at nokia finland told me theyre gonna release all the souce code from there closed apps Jun 22 01:33:15 But a large fraction of the UX is - I assume - closed. Jun 22 01:33:23 pauly___: I'll believe it when I see it. Jun 22 01:33:31 lol i joking Jun 22 01:33:44 heh Jun 22 01:35:24 the damn sdk takes ages to install Jun 22 01:35:35 and I was stupid enough to select more plugins than I need Jun 22 01:35:41 so it's taking even longer Jun 22 01:36:26 Installing component Harmattan Emulator Jun 22 01:36:44 omg reallyy Jun 22 01:37:27 finally Jun 22 01:37:29 it's finished Jun 22 01:37:40 now, to check out the N9's UI Jun 22 01:37:43 (I hope) Jun 22 01:42:19 choom: did u see it Jun 22 01:55:37 maemo5 :) Jun 22 01:55:52 uh Jun 22 01:56:06 i was using pc suite to use my 3G as the internets Jun 22 01:56:13 so I disconnected it (in the software) Jun 22 01:56:17 Using that right now. Jun 22 01:56:19 phone errored Jun 22 01:56:24 and I shut it down Jun 22 01:56:30 and it wont boot it anymore Jun 22 01:56:37 Odd. Jun 22 01:56:43 Errored in what way? Jun 22 01:56:52 orange led :> Jun 22 01:57:23 it gets to that part where those 5 dots Jun 22 01:57:26 loading bar thingy Jun 22 01:57:32 It may be battery low. Jun 22 01:57:33 2 seconds later it powers off Jun 22 01:57:35 ~lowbatt Jun 22 01:57:50 just had it plugged in for hours Jun 22 01:58:04 connecting usb makes orange led flashj Jun 22 01:58:09 Anyway - plug it in - if the light isn't constant orange - unplug, remove battery, wait 30s, replace. Jun 22 01:58:24 plug in - leave it a few hours. Jun 22 01:58:26 now it started Jun 22 01:58:31 There can be pathalogical states at low charge Jun 22 01:58:37 and not it shut down Jun 22 01:58:42 Especially with older batteries. Jun 22 01:58:44 now* Jun 22 01:58:47 hmmmmm. Jun 22 01:58:55 yup wont start up Jun 22 01:59:06 let me find the charger-only and not data cable Jun 22 01:59:17 doesn't really matter Jun 22 01:59:22 either works Jun 22 01:59:28 pc suite is trying to fdiddle with it Jun 22 01:59:40 god damnit typing Jun 22 02:01:48 So eh. Jun 22 02:01:49 what do I do now Jun 22 02:01:50 reflash? Jun 22 02:02:45 Why does it start flashing orange when I plug the usb in? Jun 22 02:03:06 charging Jun 22 02:03:07 ?? Jun 22 02:03:37 orange is error, purple charging Jun 22 02:03:39 atleast for me :> Jun 22 02:05:00 If it's flashing orange, it's booted Jun 22 02:05:06 It's in ACT_DEAD state Jun 22 02:05:10 hm. Jun 22 02:05:12 I got it on now. Jun 22 02:05:16 you diddn't pull the battery Jun 22 02:05:19 any logs I can read on wtf happened? Jun 22 02:05:22 I just did Jun 22 02:05:25 ah Jun 22 02:05:26 and it wouldnt start up even after that Jun 22 02:05:38 The battery got too flat. Jun 22 02:05:48 happened to me Jun 22 02:05:50 It can draw a _lot_ of power when tethering. Jun 22 02:05:50 indeed its empty Jun 22 02:06:08 i broke a usb charger and connected it straight to battery Jun 22 02:06:16 o_O Jun 22 02:06:24 to get that lil bit of charge Jun 22 02:06:57 a reflash fixed that problem of it always doing that when it gets to flat Jun 22 02:07:57 speedevil: do u remember when that happened to me like 8 months ago Jun 22 02:09:28 Vagurly Jun 22 02:09:53 bindi: what helped me was cutting a usb cheap charger and connecting it straight to the battery itself with the two wires Jun 22 02:10:15 and holding it for a min or two Jun 22 02:10:30 But don't do that - it's a bad idea. Jun 22 02:10:42 it worked for me Jun 22 02:11:28 or buy spare battery charger off ebay Jun 22 02:12:55 look for the battry type on goole i bought 2 bateries with a wall charger you plug the bateries in, from china for $18 Jun 22 02:14:17 i think usa n900 is not popular Jun 22 02:16:40 I don't know its not as popular as some places but i can buy them off of people here in town of of craigs list all the time. Jun 22 02:16:58 where u live Jun 22 02:17:19 outside of nashville, tn in a little town called nunnelly Jun 22 02:17:35 i live in baltimore Jun 22 02:17:50 and like one comes on here once every 3 months Jun 22 02:17:56 craigslist Jun 22 02:17:56 hey, i used to work in dc, worked there for 15 years Jun 22 02:18:02 cool Jun 22 02:18:22 yeah sonme guy has a n900 on craigs list in nashville for $156 Jun 22 02:18:24 everyone says i should get an iphone or android Jun 22 02:18:41 why the n900 rocks Jun 22 02:18:56 i have one with screen and usb broken wanna buy it Jun 22 02:19:15 how much? Jun 22 02:19:20 idk? Jun 22 02:20:05 not sure what idk is :) Jun 22 02:20:34 make offer Jun 22 02:21:00 t-mobile coverage sucks Jun 22 02:21:08 well, don't want to insult you but i'd give $50.00 for it. Jun 22 02:21:35 no insult but i dont know Jun 22 02:21:57 i wana fix it but dont have $ Jun 22 02:22:08 i bought the one i have now a year ago off of criags list for $300.00 and i love it Jun 22 02:22:34 i bought one last week for $180 Jun 22 02:22:45 not bad great deal Jun 22 02:22:58 i'm blind so the screen won't bother me too much Jun 22 02:23:24 makes sence Jun 22 02:23:38 sense! Jun 22 02:23:39 D: Jun 22 02:23:46 you know anything about linux and the maemo distro? Jun 22 02:24:14 lil bit but i cant compile shit Jun 22 02:24:25 cause i suck at everything Jun 22 02:24:48 my question is about starting apps. i'm modifying the rootfs trying to put sshhd on it so i can get into the phone over ip Jun 22 02:25:03 no idea Jun 22 02:25:05 lol Jun 22 02:25:06 but it doesn't seem to start Jun 22 02:25:43 well i put the files where they belong init.d/ssh and rc2.d/S70ssh but no joy Jun 22 02:26:28 beause linux sucks and windows all the way for the win the true open os windows lol Jun 22 02:26:31 do you have ssh installed? Jun 22 02:26:42 i have barely anything Jun 22 02:26:56 bummer Jun 22 02:27:09 er Jun 22 02:27:15 installing openssh-server should do the trick Jun 22 02:27:15 there are some cool apps in the repo Jun 22 02:27:18 i flip cars off craigslist Jun 22 02:27:57 bindi: i can't use the graphical interface cause i'm blind so i'm haveing to modify the roots and flash it. Jun 22 02:28:37 as you wish :P Jun 22 02:28:46 really thats a way to make some money huh :) Jun 22 02:29:15 not really it sucks Jun 22 02:29:18 bindi: nope not as i wish, if i could see i'd be happier to do it the normal way :) Jun 22 02:29:40 just wondering how you ircing :D Jun 22 02:30:19 i am useing vinux which is a blind user version of ubuntu 10.04 and pidgin, they are reading me everything Jun 22 02:30:47 hey im out :) Jun 22 02:31:00 bindi: do you have sshd installd on your n900? Jun 22 02:31:13 Thordasin: I did, not anymore, why? Jun 22 02:31:45 oh i was gonna ask if you could tar up your root fs and send it to me so i can study where it modified the files Jun 22 02:32:09 there should be a way to chroot into the mounted jffs2 and install the package Jun 22 02:32:40 no idea about about that Jun 22 02:32:45 im getting ready for reflashing my phone Jun 22 02:33:12 bindi: right now i have the rootfs.jffs2 mounted on /media/rootfs andi'm doing dpkg -x into there and then adding startup files myself Jun 22 02:33:15 cluttered with shit, nitdroid wont uninstalll etc. easy way :D Jun 22 02:33:35 Thordasin: i'm sorry but i don't have much linux knowledge, i can just apt-get and thats about it :D Jun 22 02:34:03 bindi: oh well thanks, what you reflashing to? Jun 22 02:34:14 latest official ofc Jun 22 02:34:23 is that pr 1.3 Jun 22 02:34:48 yeah Jun 22 02:35:44 thats what i have on now, i had meego on it for a few months but i keep running into some problems working on it so i'm gonna try and do my work under maemo, if i can get into the phone that is :) Jun 22 02:36:57 yeah I had CSSU and uh some tweaks like swappolube Jun 22 02:37:10 ended up making installing packages slow Jun 22 02:38:13 and nitdroid wouldnt uninstall Jun 22 02:38:19 oh he left :< Jun 22 02:38:38 wb Jun 22 02:38:47 bindi: sorry bout that lost connection. Jun 22 02:38:58 you parted Jun 22 02:39:41 yeah i have to toggle between the typeing area and the viewing are to read what you say, and everyone once and a while i end up in th chan serv and can't get out of it. Jun 22 02:39:59 oh :P Jun 22 02:40:02 sucks Jun 22 02:40:21 not too bad if i'm careful it doesn' happe to often :) Jun 22 02:40:58 i hit f6 to toggle over to the viewing are, and tab to get back but if i forget where i am and hit f6 in the view area i get chan server :) Jun 22 02:41:23 so cant you hit tab twice? or something Jun 22 02:41:36 i tried but it doesn't work Jun 22 02:41:43 aw Jun 22 02:41:52 excuse me now Jun 22 02:42:02 apparently need to let the phone recharge before flashing Jun 22 02:42:03 i'm sure there is a way out of it, but i ahven't figured it out yet, so for now i just hit escape and re-enter the room. Jun 22 02:42:08 gonna head for bed, its 6 am soon :P Jun 22 02:42:21 gn Jun 22 02:42:23 wow take care :) Jun 22 02:42:31 gn to you as well. Jun 22 02:50:56 Hmm - mod points, and n9 story on /. Jun 22 02:51:31 sure Jun 22 02:53:18 people still mod slashdot? Jun 22 02:57:35 SpeedEvil: I'm temped to write a decent "how to charge McGyver style" paper, rather than having semi-n00bs spread potentially dangerous simplifications Jun 22 02:58:03 Choom: sometimes. Jun 22 02:58:17 Kust went through the thread modding insightfull/troll. Jun 22 02:58:41 I've disabled my willingness to moderate like 10 years ago Jun 22 02:58:52 metamod twice a day + mod points every 3 days were driving me insane Jun 22 02:59:05 and I figured I was probably getting in the way of people who actually wanted to mod Jun 22 02:59:48 I take pride in the fact I hafe NFC what you are talking about ;-D Jun 22 02:59:57 have* **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jun 22 02:59:57 2011