**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 26 02:59:57 2011 Jun 26 03:00:07 you've seen that passage from manual: SDK for Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux. In-device tools, such as a terminal application and Nokia Energy Profiler. Some of the tools have a graphical user interface and can be found with the other applications, others can only be used using a command-line interface. To disable the tools, select and Security > Developer mode, and deactivate Developer mode. Do not remove the tools. Jun 26 03:00:30 you bet standard apps esp commercial apps won't run in developer mode Jun 26 03:00:46 well Jun 26 03:00:49 we have positive examples Jun 26 03:00:53 so you can choose: angry birds or debug tools Jun 26 03:01:04 webos does have a developer mode and there's not even an visible API for it to be detected Jun 26 03:01:16 so angry birds cannot reject to run on that basis Jun 26 03:01:30 so as I was saying I'm waiting to see what Nokia uses it for. Jun 26 03:01:58 my hope: as RST said, aegis is something that does not need to work. it just needs to be there. Jun 26 03:02:01 it's not the point what nokia is using it for, each app developer can use it to lock the own app Jun 26 03:02:15 ther'll be more and more apps that refuse to run in devel mode Jun 26 03:02:37 DocScrutinizer: I have added one example: no app in webos refuses to run in devel mode. Jun 26 03:02:50 webOS, OMG Jun 26 03:03:01 DocScrutinizer: I do not see why Rovio would be more evil on aegis than webos Jun 26 03:03:12 devel mode in webOS is terra incognita to me Jun 26 03:03:18 as is whole webOS Jun 26 03:04:08 maybe because webOS doen't have any proper security framework, and devel mode means something completely different for them? NFC Jun 26 03:04:28 but that's exactly my point Jun 26 03:04:33 they have an entire security framework Jun 26 03:04:40 they developed a cryptofs thing like aegisfs Jun 26 03:04:43 and it just sits there Jun 26 03:04:46 unused Jun 26 03:04:53 or mostly unused Jun 26 03:05:56 I am convinced thru knowledge that aegis MSSF is spawn from hell Jun 26 03:06:04 there's even a plain function call that says something along the lines of "is_my_app_pirated()" and is intented as a simple anticopy measure Jun 26 03:06:10 and no game uses it =) Jun 26 03:09:06 sw devel gasheads' fart, when industry fed them with too much BS with money souce on top Jun 26 03:10:10 lol Jun 26 03:10:15 probably N9 *must not* have video out, as that would break the "trust" for the platform, so couldn't playback DRM content Jun 26 03:10:20 aegis_system_open, aegis_system_protected =) Jun 26 03:10:34 aegis_current_mode() Jun 26 03:10:51 so, as I was saying, before panicing, let's wait and see what's the deal =) Jun 26 03:11:21 the deal is all the shit is in place ready to use Jun 26 03:11:47 not really as *allegedly* they didn't implement full DRM Jun 26 03:12:17 developers.nokia.com/aegis or whatever the page states clearly diferent Jun 26 03:15:29 and it seems rather obvious we'd need a custom kernel again, at least for hostmode Jun 26 03:19:29 "we didn't see him aim at anybody yet with that M-134D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minigun mounted on his SUV's roof, so why be concerned there might be any danger with that?" Jun 26 03:20:06 DocScrutinizer, why indeed. Jun 26 03:21:25 warning: aegisSessionOpen() - failed to open platsec device (ret=-1) Jun 26 03:21:49 "Aegis will now proceed to fire the M-134D. Please remain calm while we open several security holes on your skin." Jun 26 03:26:09 -sh: sudo: not found Jun 26 03:27:07 not coming with sudo is interesting. Jun 26 03:30:17 Anyone know who Joerg Reisenweber is? Jun 26 03:30:31 guess Jun 26 03:30:31 and what his nick is in here (if he has one)? Jun 26 03:30:32 noone really does, not even DocScrutinizer. Jun 26 03:30:56 hi, saw your emails Jun 26 03:31:16 My md5sum of my old libsms.so.0.0.0 matches the one you gave Jun 26 03:31:28 And mine Jun 26 03:31:51 then there's sth odd either with my hexedit or my ability to parse your instructions Jun 26 03:32:36 I can confirm that address 0x DD78 does contain the byte 0xFF Jun 26 03:32:37 could you run a cmp between yu rpatched version and the original? Jun 26 03:32:40 Re: SIM cutting to microSIM cutting. I have a SIM that has a really small chip on it (it's a thin rectangle rather than a big square), anyone know if these still work in MicroSIM phones when cut? Jun 26 03:33:46 all normal sims work when cut to microSIM Jun 26 03:33:57 as long as you're careful Jun 26 03:34:20 file offset = 0xdd78 does contain 0xff here, same checksum as DocScrutinizer Jun 26 03:34:28 http://pastebin.com/HvRJVSju Jun 26 03:34:41 Those are the 3 bytes I changed Jun 26 03:34:58 maybe I start to lose neurons somewhere Jun 26 03:35:22 Also, Doc, was it you who said a clone of hald-addon-bme would be useful? Jun 26 03:35:43 yes Jun 26 03:36:15 not a clone but a version that talks to bq27200 rather than bme Jun 26 03:36:52 hal is opensource, deprecated but opensource Jun 26 03:37:11 javispedro: what tool do you use to get bytevalue at offset 0xdd78 ? Jun 26 03:37:13 addons are basically little helpers that launch external processes or do some other fileio crap and then return a text file that hald uses to parse the device tree Jun 26 03:37:21 s/parse/Create Jun 26 03:37:51 javispedro: well understood Jun 26 03:37:54 DocScrutinizer: "od" =) Jun 26 03:38:02 :nod: Jun 26 03:39:19 the gray bar thing looks like a mcompositor error Jun 26 03:39:34 it is assuming lack of a certain atom is not the same as having the atom but 0,0,0,0 Jun 26 03:39:36 oops. Jun 26 03:39:46 * javispedro wins prize for best unprecedented change of context Jun 26 03:41:17 darn, NFC what went wrong when I used hexedit Jun 26 03:41:27 all fine here Jun 26 03:42:02 jonwil: could you toss over md5 of atched libsms.so? Jun 26 03:42:59 fff53e239c8a46c97015a8ef78f9e7ad Jun 26 03:43:02 Thats what I get Jun 26 03:43:05 thanks Jun 26 03:43:10 is that what you get? Jun 26 03:44:09 sendSyntheticVisibilityEventsForOurBabies() Jun 26 03:44:31 * javispedro ponders clicking thedailywtf.com ... Jun 26 03:45:43 as for hald-addon-bme, I am planning to create a clone (one that talks to libbmeipc and BME which someone can then adapt to talk directly to the charger chip. Jun 26 03:50:20 NOW I'LL NUKE IT, THIS PILE OF SH*T! Jun 26 03:50:26 MESSYBOX Jun 26 03:50:59 of course awk is messybox. of course it doesn't know gsub function Jun 26 03:51:05 BUSYBOX FTW! Jun 26 03:51:13 ~nuke DocScrutinizer Jun 26 03:51:14 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at DocScrutinizer ... B☢☢M! Jun 26 03:51:20 as for Cell Broadcast SMS, I think I need to simply start copying code from ofono for the cell broadcast decode Jun 26 03:51:36 Termana, I don't like to nuke doc! Jun 26 03:51:56 heh Jun 26 03:52:43 infobot, my light is about to blow, it is flickering - are you doing that? Jun 26 03:52:45 Termana: okay Jun 26 03:53:19 Once I get my dumper decoding the CBSMS messages, I will upload it to my phone and go on a trip and have it dump as many CBSMS messages as I can find Jun 26 03:56:41 Time to go mess with ofono code Jun 26 05:11:29 why wont this stupid tower send me a CBSMS message :( Jun 26 05:11:40 CBSMS? Jun 26 05:13:28 cell broadcast SMS Jun 26 05:24:04 bah, cant get the tower to send me one at all even though it did yesterday :( Jun 26 05:33:14 bah, stupid tower :( Jun 26 05:44:43 bah, nothing I do gets it to send me a Cell Broadcast SMS :( Jun 26 05:53:41 Sometimes they are sent to warn of Tsunamis. Jun 26 05:53:47 Maybe you could arrange one? Jun 26 05:55:05 no, this tower should be sending identification CBSMS messages Jun 26 05:55:52 jonwil: I seem to still get same dbus msg as before. Nevertheless I want to try with your dbuscb.c. How to compile it? You generally should add your commands to and doc of output, otherwise it's ahrd to interpret and duplicate. Here a compile instruction would be nice Jun 26 05:56:36 I am working on improving the output Jun 26 05:56:42 s/and/any/. Jun 26 05:57:12 I'm not interested in an improved output, I want to test if your cmd gives me any result at all Jun 26 05:57:24 The output is not really usable right now Jun 26 05:57:33 doesn't matter Jun 26 05:57:37 if I can get it to send me a CBSMS, I will be able to finish fixing it and get it to dump usable CBSMS Jun 26 05:58:17 fine, while I get meaningless dbus msgs here, and have no chance to test and duplicate your results :-/ Jun 26 05:59:33 I think the patch does not work Jun 26 05:59:55 to compile the file you just need to link it with dbus Jun 26 06:00:21 something like gcc dbuscb.c -o dbuscb `pkg-config --libs --cflags dbus-1` Jun 26 06:09:28 I think I need to take this on the road and go for a walk to see if I can get it to talk to another tower Jun 26 06:13:02 ok, that patcher of mine is buggy Jun 26 06:22:54 Ive got a problem with theme customizer and segoe ui light font Jun 26 06:23:11 if I set the system font to "Segoe UI WP Light" Jun 26 06:23:24 and save the changes Jun 26 06:23:31 it reverts to a other font Jun 26 06:26:45 * SpeedEvil ponders rsync as patch Jun 26 06:27:01 though actually - that makes no sense Jun 26 06:28:08 DocScrutinizer: Wouldn't dd make more sense? Jun 26 06:28:23 Simply md5sum to check, if it's right, dd single bytes Jun 26 06:28:44 Oh - I suppose busybox dd is retarded Jun 26 06:59:15 I don't know if dd can used like this, haven't thought about it yet Jun 26 06:59:36 but that script is still rather buggy, luckily it recovers Jun 26 06:59:53 od is buggy Jun 26 07:00:25 adds one bogus line with only addr at end, I noticed that but forgot to take measures Jun 26 07:00:49 plus there are also typos and a semantic error in it Jun 26 07:01:41 just catched a correctly patched lib inmidst of the process, only has a bogus additional byte at end Jun 26 07:01:44 testing Jun 26 07:01:53 fixed patchscript later Jun 26 07:02:09 or you try to find the bugs ;-D Jun 26 07:10:06 http://paste.debian.net/121022/ looks gooooood Jun 26 07:24:14 great, busybox od sucks as well Jun 26 07:24:43 I actualy wonder if there's a single cmd in busybox that's *not* crippled and sucks Jun 26 07:31:39 OMFG... Jun 26 07:31:46 Doc: Want fun? Jun 26 07:52:12 RST38h: Is this fun open to anyone? Jun 26 07:55:06 RST38h: you got surplus? Jun 26 07:56:11 I have more fun than a single IT-dude can deal with, with busybox etc atm Jun 26 08:01:41 SpeedEvil,Doc: Yes, open to anyone but make sure you have noteaten recently Jun 26 08:02:08 Anyway, suppose you write native code for Android. This is bound to include at least a few JNI functions. Jun 26 08:02:38 The fun is, each JNI function name is supposed_to_include_full_java_package_name Jun 26 08:03:18 So, if you would like to write code reusable from multiple applications, you are in for some pain =) Jun 26 08:03:39 ick. Jun 26 08:04:20 as I said, make sure you have not eaten Jun 26 08:07:54 darn would this be easy in a proper coding language, using f=fopen("/usr/lib/libsms.so", "r+"), fseek(f, 0xddf6,SEEK_SET), write(f, "\0x53",1), close(f) Jun 26 08:10:02 RST38h: andridiot? I'm immune to attacks from this direction Jun 26 08:11:35 I'm just amazed not every name has to start with GOOGLE_ Jun 26 08:37:06 Doc: Well, given how widespread it is, I am porting my stuff to it. And so far, it feels pretty pathetic =( Jun 26 08:37:33 Does anyone happen to have seen any datestamps of any form on the n950 hw? Jun 26 08:37:51 Doc: Have not yet decided if it is worse or the same as Symbian in terms of butthurt Jun 26 08:38:26 Well - android will be around >2014 Jun 26 08:43:33 Oooh. That reminds me. Jun 26 08:43:47 * SpeedEvil goes and submits the n9 to blendteks 'stuff to blend' page. Jun 26 08:56:46 SpeedEvil: so we can see the internals? Jun 26 08:57:13 * SpeedEvil adds Elop to the list. Jun 26 08:58:33 list of what? Jun 26 09:00:07 http://www.willitblend.com/suggestions.aspx Jun 26 09:00:40 elop is the kind of person you don't really want to see dead Jun 26 09:00:47 but you do want to bitchslap *hard* Jun 26 09:01:27 Speed: Ah, that... Isn't that going to be too toxic? Jun 26 09:15:09 morning Jun 26 09:29:06 GeneralAntilles: javispedro: MohammadAG: X-Fade is working on getting Harmattan SDK into build.pub.meego.com, so community apps will end up in apps.meego.com Jun 26 09:40:50 Good job with the decoding DocScrutinizer Jun 26 09:41:38 I think today I'm gonna setup my blog again. Jun 26 09:42:22 8 Jun 26 09:42:33 what is your blog about? Jun 26 09:43:10 It was mostly about maemo Jun 26 09:43:22 But it'll be mostly about meego now Jun 26 09:44:10 ok Jun 26 09:44:12 harmattan? Jun 26 09:45:02 I have some code to finish and then tomorrow I will be heading to the 4 points of the compass trying to make my phone talk to as many Optus GSM towers as possible Jun 26 09:45:14 and to get Cell Broadcast SMS messages for the tower name from those towers Jun 26 09:45:16 for my logs Jun 26 09:45:33 jonwil: yeah, we now would need an app that links in to system dbus and listens to these msgs. Then, on receiving such a msg, looks up in a list of subscribed channels (seems there are max 0..999) if it is relevant, if so it decodes the PDU and does with it whatever due: open a screen to display it instantly, put it to conversations as new msg, write it to a system area applet to e.g update "homezone"... Jun 26 09:46:31 Does anyone know if there's a #ifdef Q_OS_HARMATTAN or something? Jun 26 09:48:40 Jaffa: no there isn't one. Jun 26 09:48:45 Jaffa: not extras.maemo.org then? Jun 26 09:49:01 alterego: Is it possible to detect whether or not certain QML libraries (e.g. com.nokia.meego) will be available? Jun 26 09:49:05 Not sure if it has the same Q_WS_MAEMO flag though .. Jun 26 09:49:31 jonwil: of course such app needs a config screen to un/subscribe to channels, and to define what to do with the message when a new one comes in. Jun 26 09:49:33 Jaffa: from pure qml no, you might need to make a plugin youself to do the detection. Jun 26 09:49:39 alterego: I can run my root item for Attitude as the initialPage of a PageStackWindow, but I want to know whether or not that'll work Jun 26 09:49:55 alterego: Not from pure QML, but from C++? Jun 26 09:50:11 I heard qt components was supposed to provide that functionality at some point too .. Jun 26 09:50:38 Jaffa: the only way to do it would currently be from C++ :/ Jun 26 09:50:52 alterego: Complex C++? Jun 26 09:51:04 alterego: But that still depends on having Components :-/ Jun 26 09:51:11 Or providing qml with the right interfaces. Jun 26 09:51:14 The plan I had was (at least initially) to have a hildon-desktop widget (same thing as what the battery widget and other things are) that would wire up to IncomingCBS and listen for incoming messages Jun 26 09:51:16 jonwil: the dbus monitoring could be done by dbus scripts app, as it is kinda default for all sorts of such tasks, so we'd not need to include that code to another process Jun 26 09:51:17 alterego: And the fact that the imports vary by platform is, TBH, completely FUBAR Jun 26 09:51:23 alterego: "right interfaces"? Jun 26 09:51:31 Jaffa: It's not hard at all Jun 26 09:51:40 jonwil: (keep memeory footprint small for standard) Jun 26 09:51:42 oh ok, so there is a standard thing that can do the dbus logging, that's great Jun 26 09:51:52 Jaffa: yeah, you can expose a library querying object to qml Jun 26 09:52:08 in any case right now I just need to get my dump program working right so I can collect cell tower names from as many towers as possible Jun 26 09:52:10 alterego: General initial direction? Jun 26 09:52:13 jonwil: yep, search in repos for dbus scripting Jun 26 09:52:48 :-) Jun 26 09:53:05 it segfaulted for me, after several minutes Jun 26 09:53:22 (dbuscb) Jun 26 09:53:41 Jaffa: Please, clarify: do Harmattan apps go into maemo.org repos or into meego.com? Jun 26 09:54:05 RST38h: I'm 99.9% certain it'll be meego.com Jun 26 09:54:15 Jaffa: Oh. More trouble. Jun 26 09:54:50 RST38h: If someone puts a .spec file alongside debian.tar.gz it'll be possible to produce an RPM for an app targetting MeeGo CE (say) and Harmattan Jun 26 09:55:11 Jaffa: Not kind of trouble I had in mind Jun 26 09:55:48 obs is better anyway Jun 26 09:55:56 Jaffa: My fear is that meego.com's actual governing body (which is Intel, right?) will start creating problems for Harmattan there Jun 26 09:56:22 Jaffa: Would be much safer to keep things at maemo.org Jun 26 09:56:26 RST38h: neah, they'll have very little to say on the matter. Jun 26 09:59:59 It's just an obs target, tbh Jun 26 10:00:24 RST38h: The TSG & LF have already signed off on it Jun 26 10:02:04 I might setup, my own though :D Jun 26 10:03:13 good morning Jun 26 10:03:41 So for display of Cell Broadcast SMS messages, I think we need a homescreen widget similar to the operator name widget that displays the cell tower name Jun 26 10:03:46 i.e. channel 50 Jun 26 10:04:26 some sort of notification widget like the one that shows when you get a regular SMS Jun 26 10:04:33 Yay, another widget that'll drain battery :P Jun 26 10:04:54 You dont HAVE to have cell broadcast support if you dont want to Jun 26 10:05:16 I know. So? Jun 26 10:05:22 Just saying :P Jun 26 10:06:47 Well, actually, a properly designed widget should only update when the home screen is shown, so... Jun 26 10:07:02 only power's taken when the home screen's active and screen's on Jun 26 10:09:40 robbiethe1st: it should, but that's clearly not what they're talking about here .. Jun 26 10:09:58 um, really? Jun 26 10:10:14 This is a status bar widget Jun 26 10:10:17 like the operator name Jun 26 10:10:22 or the battery meter Jun 26 10:10:28 m'hmm Jun 26 10:10:50 * alterego starts sketching out USSD menu support Jun 26 10:11:04 Well, still, only draining power when the window isn't maximized, and(more importantly) when the screen is on Jun 26 10:11:38 We'll see Jun 26 10:11:51 What are you planning to do with USSD? Jun 26 10:11:59 Implement it Jun 26 10:12:18 USSD is missing from the meego reference dialer Jun 26 10:12:32 ok, so does the cell modem and ofono telephony stack support the right bits? Jun 26 10:12:36 It's a pretty easy feature to add, but meh. Jun 26 10:12:46 Oh course it does. Jun 26 10:12:54 Of .. Jun 26 10:12:57 what is USSD anyway? Jun 26 10:13:24 universal service subscriptions osmething or other Jun 26 10:13:40 Basically, it handles the *#0000# codes Jun 26 10:13:50 oh ok Jun 26 10:14:08 Some can report your balance, others you can configure things, like call waiting, diverts, etc. Jun 26 10:15:37 t.m.o has been _really_ boring since the N9 Jun 26 10:28:06 New theory, the "Sea Ray" demonstration by Elop was him trying to save his job? Jun 26 10:36:18 ~seen khertan Jun 26 10:36:27 khertan <~khertan@nax2.naxos-fr.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 19h 21m 10s ago, saying: 'must go on .... bye everyone'. Jun 26 10:57:45 ~seen MohammadAG? Jun 26 10:57:47 mohammadag is currently on #maemo #meego. Has said a total of 405 messages. Is idling for 8h 7m 39s, last said: 'or Windows 8'. Jun 26 10:57:59 MohammadAG: ping Jun 26 10:58:10 BINGO, my cell broadcast dumper WORKS Jun 26 10:58:22 Now tommorow I can go out and run it and get lots of logging of cell towers Jun 26 10:58:23 show me pls Jun 26 10:58:33 show you what? Jun 26 10:58:45 I also need to know what tower I am using now Jun 26 10:59:00 to wake me up on the bus as I come near Jun 26 10:59:08 can you share the code? Jun 26 10:59:16 not very user friendly yet Jun 26 10:59:24 once the proper UI comes out, it will be good Jun 26 10:59:30 but right now its just so I can test some stuff Jun 26 10:59:46 jonwil: I dont need a UI Jun 26 10:59:54 is it in C? Jun 26 11:00:32 its not very clean and uses hacked up ofono code Jun 26 11:00:41 so its not really distributable yet Jun 26 11:01:31 no problem with me Jun 26 11:01:51 I am also hacking my way with the N900 Jun 26 11:03:11 hmm.. the N900 supports ofono? Jun 26 11:03:20 was thinking only meego does that Jun 26 11:03:41 also saw somthing about tower info in the qT Jun 26 11:03:56 there's a few apps for that in extras-devel Jun 26 11:03:57 but its a cheap way to know where yu are Jun 26 11:04:01 cheapper then gps Jun 26 11:04:17 but ofono is the right way I think Jun 26 11:04:19 http://pastebin.com/qYSVA91r Jun 26 11:04:32 Thats the code that I am using Jun 26 11:04:52 You need to link it to the smsutil.c and util.c files from ofono Jun 26 11:05:10 o yuo read it from dbus! Jun 26 11:05:19 so I can do it in python Jun 26 11:05:21 Plus you also need the libsms patch that has been posted to the mailing list Jun 26 11:05:26 as I would preffer Jun 26 11:06:08 if you have the right libsms changes from the -devel mailing list (the 3 bytes Jun 26 11:06:18 then my code will work Jun 26 11:08:26 cool, my code works, it dumped 2 different tower names Jun 26 11:08:40 I am obviously fairly similar distances from both towers Jun 26 11:09:02 tommorow I go as far as the bus/train system can take me Jun 26 11:09:06 with logging running Jun 26 11:09:11 and hope I get lots of tower names Jun 26 11:09:26 and also that my cbsms.log file doesnt fill up my /var memory space Jun 26 11:09:50 jonwil: write to mydocs? Jun 26 11:09:59 hmmm good call Jun 26 11:13:19 ok, just need to test it now :) Jun 26 11:13:36 make sure it writes where it needs to Jun 26 11:15:06 ok, works Jun 26 11:15:07 writes to /home/user/MyDocs Jun 26 11:15:19 no worries about running out of space in an important place Jun 26 11:17:02 ( USSD is missing from the meego reference dialer) HAHAHA again?! Jun 26 11:17:17 Now I can go out tomorrow with my dumper running and my phone in my pocket/bag and I will get a nice fat log Jun 26 11:17:22 otwieracz: Squeeze seems to work okay on Deblet aside from udev, which should be held or downgraded to lenny. Jun 26 11:18:21 U(ser, nsolicited) Supplementary Service Data Jun 26 11:18:40 and no *#0000# is for sure sth else Jun 26 11:19:08 *#111# is a correct example Jun 26 11:21:31 cloudyLights: you definitely don't want to use SMSCB for location services, as it's sometimes only sent every other minute, sometimes even more infrequently Jun 26 11:22:22 have a look into netmon app, and see how CID is queried from modem - that's WAY faster and more reliable than SMSCB Jun 26 11:22:23 DocScrutinizer: actually no, even codes that are completely locally are usually handled by the modem, like *#06# Jun 26 11:22:35 And they are handled in the same way as anyother USSD ;) Jun 26 11:22:42 not USSD though Jun 26 11:22:49 *#06# never Jun 26 11:22:52 There is literally no distinction Jun 26 11:22:56 it's a local SSC Jun 26 11:23:19 There really isn't a difference. Jun 26 11:23:40 for SSC N900 maemo needs starhash enabler, while USSD (>2 digits) works without Jun 26 11:23:45 For all you or anyone knows, the calls are going to the network, just because they get interpreted by the modem is by-the-by Jun 26 11:23:46 uhih Jun 26 11:23:55 uhuh! even Jun 26 11:24:10 But meh, whatever :) Jun 26 11:24:33 alterego: sorry, but on that topic this level of discussion is way off the facts Jun 26 11:25:01 there's a clear distinction between SSC and USSD Jun 26 11:25:31 and *#0000# is no true USSD at all Jun 26 11:26:01 *#06# is even a SSC and no USSD, and it's also no OTA *service* code Jun 26 11:26:02 In related news, is *#0000# a GSM spec? Jun 26 11:26:07 I know 06 is required, Jun 26 11:26:09 no Jun 26 11:26:13 otwieracz: the dist upgrade took a mere seven hours! Jun 26 11:26:20 I've done *#06 with no service Jun 26 11:26:23 *#0000# is Nokia Jun 26 11:26:29 Yeah, that's what I thought Jun 26 11:26:43 SpeedEvil: as *#06# is a local pseudo code Jun 26 11:26:50 I used to have a list of all of these codes, but can't remember where I put them, or if they're even still on any HDD somewhere. Jun 26 11:26:58 yes, I know. Jun 26 11:27:08 whatever Jun 26 11:28:19 * alterego listens to the engadget podcast Jun 26 11:28:34 This should be a laugh Jun 26 11:37:42 mhm, interested in SMSCB in python, anyone? Jun 26 11:39:21 jonwil: http://paste.debian.net/121050/ Jun 26 11:42:44 nice one :) Jun 26 11:48:09 adding a notifier Jun 26 11:49:09 python - anybody help me out? Jun 26 11:49:17 File "./smscb.py", line 54 Jun 26 11:49:19 elsif channel == fromchannel: Jun 26 11:49:20 ^ Jun 26 11:49:22 SyntaxError: invalid syntax Jun 26 11:50:02 elif Jun 26 11:50:09 oooh thanks Jun 26 11:50:37 smscb? Jun 26 11:51:29 yeah, so it is working Jun 26 11:52:13 http://paste.debian.net/121052/ Jun 26 11:52:16 yup Jun 26 11:52:29 jonwil fixed it :-) Jun 26 11:52:36 morning Jun 26 11:52:39 3 byte hack Jun 26 11:52:46 moo moh Jun 26 11:52:46 I found the 3-byte patch to libsms Jun 26 11:52:49 yep Jun 26 11:53:01 brilliant work Jun 26 11:53:37 Jaffa, what about libs and such? I don't get where they'll end up Jun 26 11:54:57 MohammadAG: What do you mean? They'll end up in the repos Jun 26 11:55:19 Jaffa, so it'll work in the same way as -devel Jun 26 12:00:47 jonwil: I'm failing epically on teaching busybox to patch three bytes in a binary. --- how's about *you* publish that executable like: f=fopen("/usr/lib/libsms.so", "r+"), fseek(f, 0xddf6,SEEK_SET), write(f, "\0x53",1), close(f) Jun 26 12:01:50 In other news, you can't downgrade N950s Jun 26 12:01:53 yeah good call, I can write that Jun 26 12:02:13 jonwil: it's your patch, yur fame :-) Jun 26 12:03:00 how far can binary patching be taken? Jun 26 12:03:13 How do you extract the fiasco image from the N950 firmware? Jun 26 12:03:19 till online hot kernel upgrades ;-P Jun 26 12:03:42 alterego flasher -F emmc/img.bin -u=dir Jun 26 12:03:49 alterego, run it without an N950, you'll find it in /tmp/selfextract Jun 26 12:03:55 there's a whole company earning money with that Jun 26 12:04:05 don't CTRL+C, it cleans up Jun 26 12:04:17 MohammadAG: sweet, yeah I was kust wondering where it put it's tmp files ;) Jun 26 12:04:18 Thanks Jun 26 12:05:08 hihi, had a similar issue with my own cleanup, for that 3byte patcher Jun 26 12:12:30 is there any way to see vimeo videos on browser? Jun 26 12:19:57 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12292 Jun 26 12:19:58 04Bug 12292: Crashing on changes in icons grid. Jun 26 12:20:21 anyone has this thing? :) Jun 26 12:22:42 what thing Jun 26 12:30:36 so yeah tonight I will finish cloning hald-addon-bme (well cloning minus all the syslog calls which dont really matter :P) Jun 26 12:30:54 then someone can take my clone and adapt it to work right on the hardware with no libbmeipc in the way Jun 26 12:41:57 jonwil, what is hald-addon-bme? Jun 26 12:42:33 MohammadAG: No, it'll work the same way as -testing. Devel is replaced with personal home repos, like PPAs Jun 26 12:43:56 What are personal home repos? Jun 26 12:43:57 Jaffa, you referring to Harmattan? Jun 26 12:44:03 Oh Jun 26 12:44:07 RST38h, OBS Jun 26 12:44:15 You mean, if I am using 10 packages from -devel, I will have to enable 10 repos? Jun 26 12:44:26 RST38h: Each person with an OBS account gets something like https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=home%3Ajaffa Jun 26 12:44:34 if they're by one devel each Jun 26 12:44:41 RST38h: Roughly, yes. Jun 26 12:45:11 that seems way too overkill Jun 26 12:45:38 FIQ|n900: Why? Jun 26 12:45:46 Jaffa: Umgh. Jun 26 12:45:48 What's the overhead? Jun 26 12:46:06 No single -devel repo isn't good =( Jun 26 12:46:11 FIQ|n900: And, more to the point, how do you track one piece of s/w in development whilst tracking the end-release of others? Jun 26 12:46:19 I mean, where will we all shit? Jun 26 12:46:53 RST38h, you can shit wherever you want to Jun 26 12:47:01 each person will have a toilet on their own Jun 26 12:47:15 MohammadAG :D Jun 26 12:47:24 Yes, but if I collect shit, will I have to become the toilet bandit? =) Jun 26 12:47:35 RST38h, yep Jun 26 12:47:39 more like the toilet collector Jun 26 12:47:50 Naaah, please bring back the -devel Jun 26 12:47:56 MohammadAG :D :D Jun 26 12:48:07 Jaffa, can it do debs as of now? Jun 26 12:48:17 also, Harmattan's Qt seems buggy Jun 26 12:48:20 Seems like dependancies would be a nightmare... Jun 26 12:48:23 i understand your point but i still think it's better to just have them clearly seperated, maybe with -dev suffix to prevent the common problem with -devel in maemo where packages likes to update to devel version when enabling it Jun 26 12:48:52 MohammadAG: X-Fade has been working on it all week, since the SDK was unveiled. Not sure how far from completion it is. Didn't sound like far. Jun 26 12:49:17 FIQ: apt-pinning. You'd just need to have the default set with a very low priority on -devel so it won't auto-upgrade Jun 26 12:49:38 Yes, i know Jun 26 12:50:09 But still, why having seperate repositories for every single package/application? Jun 26 12:50:26 I agree with that Jun 26 12:50:38 One repo + apt-pinning's a better idea Jun 26 12:50:45 And god knows what happens if something in the "dev" area depends on something else in same area Jun 26 12:50:46 that way dependancies can be calculated. Jun 26 12:50:55 Exactly Jun 26 12:51:13 Repos are supposed to be basically self-contained, or at least additive Jun 26 12:51:34 AFAIK, no Jun 26 12:51:39 i.e. main, universe, multiverse etc. Jun 26 12:51:41 no direct requirement of this kind Jun 26 12:51:50 ah,you mean Ubuntu repos Jun 26 12:52:03 Or debian, but the same concept stands Jun 26 12:52:19 There was a free/non-free section at least Jun 26 12:52:25 This approach *has* worked well for MeeGo so far (not many apps, of course) and - more importantly - Ubuntu. Jun 26 12:52:26 all distros i've used have something like that Jun 26 12:52:33 none had such thing Jun 26 12:52:34 and you can bet the non-free stuff relied on free stuff as well Jun 26 12:53:12 PPAs are only OK when the owner of the distro CBF to add random packages, or allow others to add them, like in Ubuntu Jun 26 12:53:32 most stuff makes it in, sure, but... Jun 26 12:54:08 I'm more interested in why Sociality fails to start, when it works on all Qt devices Jun 26 12:54:18 /usr/bin/meego-run: line 30: 2435 Segmentation fault (core dumped) "$@" Jun 26 12:55:27 * FIQ|n900 tried out MeeGo a bit yesterday and today Jun 26 12:55:42 "meego isin't in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported" noooes Jun 26 12:55:55 isn't* lol Jun 26 12:56:53 su root and use password meego Jun 26 12:58:28 ah Jun 26 12:58:30 fine Jun 26 13:01:46 does the APN settings work at all btw? Jun 26 13:01:59 (i.e. can you do networking with 3G yet?) Jun 26 13:05:04 not sure, ask on #meego-arm Jun 26 13:05:18 * divan finally succeeded with music identifying app using echoprint codegenerator on N900 =) Jun 26 13:05:50 It just recognized Radiohead song by 25 seconds recorded with n900 microphone Jun 26 13:06:00 divan: Cool Jun 26 13:06:36 MohammadAG: Have you installed Harmattan Platform SDK on top of Fremantle in Scratchbox? How did you do it - did the installer sort it all out properly? Jun 26 13:06:53 The qemu image is *far* too slow to be useful for development :-( Jun 26 13:07:01 Hmm Jun 26 13:07:17 Jaffa, I used javispedro's notes Jun 26 13:07:29 http://pastebin.com/cS5MA88D Jun 26 13:07:34 Jaffa, why? Jun 26 13:07:41 make it work fast there etc :P Jun 26 13:08:19 this is annoying though http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=vhMdx7YL Jun 26 13:08:31 there's no reason for it to do that, besides the Harmattan Qt being buggy Jun 26 13:08:49 MohammadAG, MAssembly: Stylesheet missing "/usr/share/themes/base/meegotouch/sociality/style/sociality.css" Jun 26 13:08:56 that tells something Jun 26 13:09:29 not a reason to segfault Venemo Jun 26 13:09:29 the errors following that are more interesting Jun 26 13:09:40 the X error is always a reason to segfault Jun 26 13:10:00 nope, seems to happen a lot Jun 26 13:10:27 well, at my brief experience with Xlib, when I do something bad, it gives me an X error and crashes. Jun 26 13:11:33 Venemo, http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=i6baNEeq Jun 26 13:11:58 heh, how ridiculous is that Jun 26 13:12:24 Venemo, but that works :P Jun 26 13:12:28 Sociality doesn't Jun 26 13:12:30 seems that the QMaemo6Style is buggy crap Jun 26 13:12:38 if I gdb it, it shows something about sensors, which I don't even use Jun 26 13:12:46 Jaffa, does Mobility work for you? Jun 26 13:15:25 Venemo, http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=q50R79X4 Jun 26 13:15:42 * FIQ|n900 actually managed to compile Lua (as a test of advanced C/C++ compiling) successfully after his tries of compiling node.js, so whatever the problem is/was, it wasn't related to the SDK installation Jun 26 13:15:44 hm Jun 26 13:15:46 how weird Jun 26 13:16:22 hmm, /me tries to skip the login window Jun 26 13:17:34 it works! :D Jun 26 13:17:35 Seems like QWebView is buggy Jun 26 13:18:13 hmm, scrolling seems slow int he SDK Jun 26 13:18:16 but at least it's working Jun 26 13:19:07 lcuk: I'll assume you haven't tried it. There's nothing I can do in my code to make it faster. Jun 26 13:19:18 Sociality looks surprisingly nice in the SDK Jun 26 13:19:36 the gray bar needs to be removed though Jun 26 13:19:59 MohammadAG: Not tried Mobility beyond Sensors yet. Jun 26 13:20:21 Jaffa, seems like a QWebPage always segfaults Jun 26 13:20:23 MohammadAG: Grey bar is fixed with app.setProperty("NoMStyle", true); Jun 26 13:20:46 Jaffa, does that make the app lose the QStyle? Jun 26 13:20:50 it's not QML Jun 26 13:21:01 MohammadAG: No idea if it loses the QStyle Jun 26 13:21:24 is there a standalone flash player for N900? Jun 26 13:21:34 tried to google it a bit, but failed Jun 26 13:22:47 I dislike how there's no X button in the window manager Jun 26 13:22:47 and dialogs don't work in the SDK Jun 26 13:23:17 microB works fine, but i want proper fullscreen Jun 26 13:23:33 I'll package it up and ship to meego.com, maybe qgil can prove otherwise on a device Jun 26 13:23:48 FIQ|n900, there's an app, don't remember it's name Jun 26 13:24:12 oh, think i found something Jun 26 13:24:15 Kmplayer? Jun 26 13:24:52 no Jun 26 13:24:57 hmm Jun 26 13:25:00 it was for flash games afaik Jun 26 13:25:05 what are you thinking of then? Jun 26 13:25:30 cutetube! Jun 26 13:25:33 heh jk Jun 26 13:25:41 yes, it's a game i want to play :p Jun 26 13:25:43 that's not flash Jun 26 13:26:06 I don't remotely remember the name :/ Jun 26 13:26:48 too bad Jun 26 13:28:00 kmplayer actually worked, but the resolution seems like 640x480 for some reason Jun 26 13:28:31 so the text is too small Jun 26 13:29:39 moorning Jun 26 13:29:52 javispedro, morning Jun 26 13:29:59 no, that thing didn't work well at all Jun 26 13:30:05 you can't run it through a resize filter? Jun 26 13:30:14 actually better perfomance but no cursor Jun 26 13:30:17 and run it at a lower res? Jun 26 13:30:33 to make it bigger Jun 26 13:30:55 Macer, nvm as kmplayer didn't worked well at all Jun 26 13:31:15 (the size is no problem in microB) Jun 26 13:31:20 oh Jun 26 13:31:36 Jaffa: MohammadAG: the gray bar at the bottom is supposed to show back/close buttons Jun 26 13:32:17 MohammadAG, flashlauncher? Jun 26 13:32:33 no idea why it does not. either it is a bug (it should assume lack of mtf atoms means it is a standard app, instead of showing empty bar) or just part of the usual hate versus non MTF apps. Jun 26 13:34:43 Q_WS_MAEMO_6 is used for Haramattan right? Jun 26 13:34:53 I think so Jun 26 13:37:04 MohammadAG: No Jun 26 13:37:35 MohammadAG: http://twitter.com/#!/vivainio/status/84926068137525249 Jun 26 13:39:22 Jaffa, #define MEEGO_FLAVOR=harmattan ---> this is not even valid C++ Jun 26 13:40:07 it is valid on the gcc cmd line (as -D) , which is what probably the guy was subconsciously thinking Jun 26 13:40:21 maybe. Jun 26 13:40:34 Venemo: What javispedro says. Jun 26 13:41:02 It's pretty easy to parse "You can check for [a] #define [of] MEEGO_FLAVOUR [which] = 'harmattan'" Jun 26 13:41:08 mhm Jun 26 13:43:08 * Termana rages Jun 26 13:43:23 does #if MEEGO_FLAVOUR == "harmattan" even work? Jun 26 13:43:23 * javispedro is interested in this MEEGO_LOW_POWER_MODE stuff =) Jun 26 13:44:14 Venemo: usually, the two defines exist, so you can compare them as ints Jun 26 13:44:39 heh, what's CTR:L+Z again? SIGSTOP? Jun 26 13:44:42 javispedro, if it's like symbian it kills keyboard leds and locks screen brightness to lowest Jun 26 13:44:45 ;) Jun 26 13:44:52 Interesting, so the N950 comes with the SDK installers on the eMMC :D Jun 26 13:45:04 alterego, online installers Jun 26 13:45:10 check the size, 23MBs Jun 26 13:45:16 * MohammadAG waits for pffft Jun 26 13:45:24 Yeah, I noticed. Jun 26 13:45:26 That is a bit lame. Jun 26 13:45:27 MohammadAG: yes Jun 26 13:45:31 MohammadAG: what size is the MyDocs partition? Jun 26 13:45:40 rest Jun 26 13:45:45 4GBs for / Jun 26 13:45:48 2GBs for /home Jun 26 13:45:53 but total is not known? Jun 26 13:46:19 rest is "mmc2" Jun 26 13:46:53 moo javispedro Jun 26 13:47:10 moo DocScrutinizer Jun 26 13:47:20 _MEEGOTOUCH_VISIBLE_IN_SWITCHER(CARDINAL) = 0 <-- at least we know how to hide windows now Jun 26 13:47:30 64 afaik Jun 26 13:47:43 you noticed jonwil patched the libsms.so for good? :-D http://paste.debian.net/121054/ Jun 26 13:47:43 ShadowJK: I think this is the infamous "alwayson" lock screen on N9 with AMOLED Jun 26 13:47:53 javispedro: ^^ Jun 26 13:48:05 is the settings app QML? Jun 26 13:48:47 ShadowJK, power saving mode on Symbian^3 also switches from 3G to 2G Jun 26 13:48:52 javispedro: and I failed epically on trying to patch those 3 bytes in libsms.so via a messybox script ;-P Jun 26 13:49:00 no wonder Jun 26 13:49:03 MohammadAG, lol, awesome Jun 26 13:49:06 but there must be some binary patching tool around Jun 26 13:49:17 dd? Jun 26 13:49:42 I wonder how that "alwayson" lock screen will work on the N950's TFT LCD Jun 26 13:49:44 Hello, gentlemen Jun 26 13:50:00 javispedro: I also thought there must be a binary mode in patch, or another tool for that, but none Jun 26 13:50:01 Venemo, no :) Jun 26 13:50:02 * RST38h is back after an exciting battle with the lighting fixture Jun 26 13:50:10 ShadowJK ? Jun 26 13:50:12 Venemo, well it "works", but eats power? Jun 26 13:50:22 javispedro, ShadowJK: Moo. Jun 26 13:50:23 ShadowJK, ah... Jun 26 13:50:34 moo Jun 26 13:50:42 ~mooo Jun 26 13:50:50 ShadowJK, so the N950's lock screen will work differently? Jun 26 13:50:53 MohammadAG: re _MEEGOTOUCH_VISIBLE_IN_SWITCHER. It's the opposite thing actually. Jun 26 13:51:06 MohammadAG: it it set by swipeswitcher when application is currently visible on switcher Jun 26 13:51:33 Venemo, i guess that depends on whether they gave it a custom lock screen or used the same as N9? It's not like they wouldn't be allowed to cripple batterylife of a non-consumer device ;p Jun 26 13:51:34 javispedro, what happens if you set it manually? Jun 26 13:51:57 you confuse MTF =) Jun 26 13:52:18 Both N9 and N950 will use identical UI Jun 26 13:52:21 Venemo: depending on how good their abstraction and their platform adaption is, they might redirect the onscreen indications to the notifier LED, N950 seems to have same like N900 Jun 26 13:52:23 This is what Nokians said Jun 26 13:52:25 moo RST38h Jun 26 13:52:31 mhm Jun 26 13:52:39 so it flips the M 180 degrees and spells WTF, nice Jun 26 13:52:58 And if someone points me to an example of native OpenGLES1 initializationfor Android, I would be grateful Jun 26 13:53:00 so the N950's standby time will be crippled by the always on display? Jun 26 13:53:11 just kill the display :p Jun 26 13:53:14 Venemo, to 12 hours or so, I'd imagine Jun 26 13:53:15 MohammadAG: MTF uses that Atom to see "MOnDisplayChangeEvent"s Jun 26 13:53:20 hehh Jun 26 13:53:24 s/see/send/ Jun 26 13:53:25 RST38h: doesn't mean the framework itsaelf must be platform agnostic, it might adapt Jun 26 13:53:26 javispedro meant: MohammadAG: MTF uses that Atom to send "MOnDisplayChangeEvent"s Jun 26 13:53:37 Venemo: N950 has got a lock button, hasn't it? Jun 26 13:53:45 crap! Jun 26 13:53:48 :T Jun 26 13:53:54 RST38h, I dunno, I don't have one yet Jun 26 13:53:56 the lock button sends you to the screensaver Jun 26 13:54:06 at least on the N8 Jun 26 13:54:13 Maybe it is going to be in the settings, like in Symbian? Jun 26 13:54:16 and N86 Jun 26 13:54:19 "Use standbyscreen - Yes/No" Jun 26 13:54:20 f**ken garage >_< Jun 26 13:54:26 just blank the screen with sysfs :P Jun 26 13:55:42 i've just create project for zsh (to maintain it's builds for maemo) with SVN except of git. Due to registration script reset it on SVN on any error or warning >_<' Jun 26 13:55:42 so... bottomline, this is something we will have to hack around when we get our N950s Jun 26 13:55:50 crap! crap! crap! Jun 26 13:56:04 Venemo: if we get out N950s :/ Jun 26 13:56:09 s/out/our Jun 26 13:56:16 heh Jun 26 13:56:31 can't you obnoxiously lucky people to get N950 go make your own club and room somewhere Jun 26 13:56:42 pfft Jun 26 13:56:46 pfft. Jun 26 13:56:48 and stop taunting us normal people who can't get it even if we go set Nokia HQ on fire? Jun 26 13:56:50 ShadowJK: I applied for one, but I hope to get one, there is only hope :/ Jun 26 13:56:58 The only reason I'd like an N950 is because it's collectable :P Jun 26 13:57:20 I'd want N950 because it looks like N900 upgrade Jun 26 13:57:23 and N9 is not Jun 26 13:57:46 Oh, and to annoy ShadowJK by getting 2 of them Jun 26 13:57:47 I want an N950 because well its a limited edition device ;) Jun 26 13:58:08 alterego: if you do that, I will trace you down and kill you, take one and share the other one with ShadowJK :D Jun 26 13:58:26 I really don't think that'll happen. Jun 26 13:58:29 I want an N950 cause I don't want the N9 to suck at launch Jun 26 13:58:32 With 2 N950s I'd have super powers. Jun 26 13:58:33 tbh N950 would be interesting as an everyday device only if we could get N900 OS ported to it so we could install from extras-devel without any problems Jun 26 13:58:49 hiemanshu, actually I'd wanna get a team of angry geeks and go to Nokia's parking lot and remove the wheels from all their cars. See how they like their fucking sleek new cars. Jun 26 13:58:52 :P Jun 26 13:59:01 lol Jun 26 13:59:03 ShadowJK: count me in :D Jun 26 13:59:03 DocScrutinizer, why would you want the N900's OS on it? Jun 26 13:59:13 ShadowJK: I'll get spray paints Jun 26 13:59:22 ShadowJK: You mean, you would like to further complicate the lives of already tormented Nokia employees? Jun 26 13:59:23 or if we got critical mass of N950 users, but that's obviously not going to hapen Jun 26 13:59:30 btw, anybody knows, if i need to create project on garage for autobuilding and publishing package in devel repo? :) Jun 26 13:59:35 ShadowJK: As if Elopocalypse weren't enough? Jun 26 13:59:49 RST38h: Only the nicer cars. Jun 26 13:59:52 mva, no, just send to -devel directly Jun 26 13:59:54 RST38h: Upper managment. Jun 26 14:00:20 and Elops cars Jun 26 14:01:26 sure you want to remove only the tires from elops cars? Jun 26 14:01:43 nope Jun 26 14:01:46 why the tires? Jun 26 14:01:50 elops cars and upper management Jun 26 14:01:51 just remove the buttons from it Jun 26 14:01:56 and install windows on the car Jun 26 14:01:59 Venemo: sure, See, this M6 chimera is an abomination for me. And I'd need all my apps around that I'm used to, not something from N9 repos that's poorly adapted to N950 per definitionem Jun 26 14:02:11 Venemo: take a nail gun, and shoot the tires Jun 26 14:02:21 much easier to do Jun 26 14:02:43 Cars already have Windows Jun 26 14:02:53 xD Jun 26 14:02:54 OMG IT'S A CONSPIRACY!!!1 Jun 26 14:03:08 new elevators have windows.. Jun 26 14:03:26 The "conspiracy" clause seems to be coming up almost as often as the "hitler" clausenowadays Jun 26 14:03:44 RST38h: everything is a conspiracy Jun 26 14:03:59 the Rapture is a conspiracy Jun 26 14:04:11 Pole's car Jun 26 14:04:15 The Rapture is idiocy. Jun 26 14:04:21 The rest is conspiracy. Jun 26 14:04:28 damn lag Jun 26 14:04:29 conspiracy isn't exactly the right word for sth SO obvious, no? Jun 26 14:04:49 Doc: It is easier to believe, especially for Americans, that the guy isn't simply stupid:) Jun 26 14:04:56 Or insane. Jun 26 14:05:03 or evil Jun 26 14:05:10 and not even hiding it Jun 26 14:05:11 "Evil" is subjective. Jun 26 14:05:12 Has anyone actually got an offer for an N950 yet? (Quim said clear cases would start to receive them before the application deadline) Jun 26 14:05:52 the funny bit about conspiracies al the time is, if they were conspiracies then you'd not know about them Jun 26 14:05:53 no, there are no N950s, that's also a conspiracy Jun 26 14:06:07 :p Jun 26 14:06:18 * Termana passes around the tinfoil hats Jun 26 14:06:19 something done publicly hardly is a conspiracy Jun 26 14:06:21 SHHHHH Jun 26 14:06:33 The Gov'ment might be listenin in to yas Jun 26 14:06:54 Doc: Well, there are people who think that just by saying the right words at the right times they are fooling you Jun 26 14:07:06 Doc: US gov is full of them, as one example Jun 26 14:07:07 Hey all. Is it recommended to install the Community SSU ? Jun 26 14:07:29 Atarii: depends on how you want to use your device Jun 26 14:07:34 cssu is in "testing" state Jun 26 14:07:41 oh hey again merlin1991 thanks again for helping me last night :) Jun 26 14:07:50 javispedro, you sure the ARMEL UI is faster? Jun 26 14:08:20 merlin1991 it's to be used as a dev device (not main phone), so I guess I'll go for it Jun 26 14:08:24 MohammadAG: seemed like so, then again my hmarttan_x86 sbox is not accelereted Jun 26 14:09:41 Termana: if MohammadAG has no notice yet, then I'd say either there's no shipping yet, or their definition of "clear case" is weird Jun 26 14:09:57 and afaik he got no notice yet Jun 26 14:10:48 that we know of Jun 26 14:11:24 obviously, the mastermind behind the conspiracy is MohammadAG himself, who is keeping the single community N950 for himself. Jun 26 14:11:40 hehehe Jun 26 14:12:09 DocScrutinizer, I doubt I'm actually getting an N950, not sure why Jun 26 14:12:13 * DocScrutinizer is repositioning a few satellites Jun 26 14:12:52 that we know of <-- I don't think anyone's signing an NDA for a loaned device :p Jun 26 14:12:59 MohammadAG: I'm sure you get one before I do, and I know damn sure why I won't get one Jun 26 14:13:02 MohammadAG: if you doubt it, then who the hell is going to get one Jun 26 14:13:05 if anyone, then MohammadAG should get an N950 Jun 26 14:13:40 Time to start splitting up maemo5 specifics in columbus Jun 26 14:13:43 Let's review who should get an N950 :P Jun 26 14:13:54 DocScrutinizer, he's the reason for hostmode on the N900 Jun 26 14:13:59 I certainly have no claim to one of the limited numbers of N950s Jun 26 14:14:08 javispedro, platform hacking at its best Jun 26 14:14:17 Venemo/alterego, they're the reason I know Qt Jun 26 14:14:32 well, the definition of useful contribution is not the common one, on meego loaner board Jun 26 14:14:35 we could use hostmode on the N950 as well I think Jun 26 14:14:42 Unfortunately, I think my MeeGo efforts almost work as a disqualification from getting a MeeGo.com DDP Jun 26 14:14:46 ironic really :) Jun 26 14:14:53 MohammadAG: then I am pretty sure I am not getting one "/ Jun 26 14:14:59 alterego, how come? Jun 26 14:15:14 hiemanshu, what's your maemo.org profile? :P Jun 26 14:15:17 They're looking for app devs to fill the stores. Jun 26 14:15:21 MohammadAG: I have none :P Jun 26 14:15:59 well, I did write/test some stuff, but no profile Jun 26 14:16:02 alterego: then again I think quim is exactly the right person to understand that sending a few for random hacking is not bad Jun 26 14:16:46 alterego, you can do apps, awesome ones, you just chose not to for the time being :P Jun 26 14:16:56 Yes well .. Jun 26 14:17:07 I am starting to port Columbus to Harmattan now Jun 26 14:17:19 So by the time I get an N950, my primary app will already be done I imagine :D Jun 26 14:17:48 The scratchbox environment runs like crap on my machine though Jun 26 14:17:50 Don't know why Jun 26 14:17:52 * hiemanshu is working on getting quassel2go to run, and writing a new comic reader app Jun 26 14:17:54 Venemo: I have the hostmode gui bet tmo thread as my "project page" -quim wasn't impressed at all. Also it seemed to me he didn't even know what USB hostmode is and why it's a nice-to-have Jun 26 14:18:12 I need to think of a new "flag ship" app for me to write for Harmattan/MeeGo Jun 26 14:18:21 DocScrutinizer: why do you say he wasn't impressed? Jun 26 14:18:23 DocScrutinizer, wasn't impressed at all... how do you know that? Jun 26 14:18:31 Columbus was my Fremantly "flag ship" app, now I need something new for Harmattan Jun 26 14:19:01 that's what an old fart reads between the lines of a lengthy discussion Jun 26 14:19:21 bah, you need to talk in person someday Jun 26 14:19:51 note bene the old fart is me ;-P Jun 26 14:20:11 DocScrutinizer, you are not old, neither are you a fart. Jun 26 14:20:24 I disagree Jun 26 14:20:33 * DocScrutinizer farts Jun 26 14:20:40 ;-P Jun 26 14:23:12 :D Jun 26 14:24:19 * alterego disagrees too Jun 26 14:24:26 I'm an old fart as well Jun 26 14:24:44 though there are some comments by quim that scare Jun 26 14:24:55 javispedro, which comments are they? Jun 26 14:25:07 "The N950 is a very limited edition. At some point it is expected that N9 devices will be available, perhaps in bigger quantities and perhaps with more diverse criteria (I can't really promise anything). Maybe then there is a better chance for developers not aiming to work on apps for users." Jun 26 14:25:20 hmm Jun 26 14:25:23 weird Jun 26 14:25:41 javispedro: my point exactly. Jun 26 14:25:53 that's too app centric Jun 26 14:26:01 javispedro: now I _hope_ he/they plan on giving a very small amount of those N950 to CE developers Jun 26 14:26:05 :/ Jun 26 14:26:18 and what about what alterego has told us? alterego, you said that quim said that the recipients of N950s can keep the N950, is that right? Jun 26 14:26:29 alterego: "Maybe the CE for the N950 is not so relevant,..." Jun 26 14:26:36 alterego: there's shit for you too! =) Jun 26 14:26:39 as long as you are doing something meaningfulwith it (C)Quim Jun 26 14:26:43 you want to give your OS and frameworks a good rattle to see how solid they are, before you care exclusively about apps apps apps apps Jun 26 14:26:58 either way, just read the thread: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3597 Jun 26 14:27:03 Especially before you lock in the API hard for release. Jun 26 14:27:25 Venemo: I said that when the N9 is release there is an option to either trade the N950 for an N9 or keep the N950 Jun 26 14:27:28 javispedro, I have read the thread, yes. there is very little meaningful stuff there Jun 26 14:27:33 alterego, yeah Jun 26 14:27:47 alterego, so at the end, this won't be a loan after all, right? Jun 26 14:27:59 No, Jun 26 14:28:19 so, it will be a loan, but we can choose to loan an N9 instead? Jun 26 14:28:37 Venemo: "In the meantime we will see what are the next steps based on demand, people intested in keeping the N950 vs jumping to the N9, etc." Jun 26 14:28:51 Venemo: it's not strictly a loan, you're right Jun 26 14:28:56 That "no" was a mistake :P Jun 26 14:30:17 Venemo: N950 will be dead as stinking fish as soon as N9 rolls out Jun 26 14:30:24 uh, why does firefox' site shows "Get for Android", "Get Firefox Home for iPhone" but i can't find the fennec for maemo download link? Jun 26 14:30:39 all right, but what if at the en I actually want an N950 as my everyday device Jun 26 14:30:41 I think what people have to remember about the N950 is, there will be _no_ support Jun 26 14:30:41 nobody will care about developing apps in a way so you could use "your" N950 Jun 26 14:30:55 From the looks of it, they might not even keep the firmware in line with the N9 Jun 26 14:31:11 you bet they won't Jun 26 14:31:16 who cares? when MeeGo CE will become ready, I'll be happy to get rid of Harmattan Jun 26 14:31:24 So the N950, as soon as the N9 comes out, will only be useful for MeeGo CE imo Jun 26 14:31:47 MGConfItem: Failed to activate configuration server: The permission of the setuid helper is not correct Jun 26 14:32:06 grr Jun 26 14:32:07 that first means CE gets support for all the closed bits, and there are plenty on low level, on N950 I bet Jun 26 14:32:28 I wish there was someone with an N950 here on IRC Jun 26 14:32:46 both N9 and N950 use almost the same chip as the N900, so there won't be much of a problem I imagine Jun 26 14:32:51 but, we shall wait and see Jun 26 14:33:09 there was one here recently Jun 26 14:33:12 DocScrutinizer: already done Jun 26 14:33:14 Venemo: believe me there WILL be lots of problems Jun 26 14:33:15 Harmattan on n900 - for dev - would be awesome. Jun 26 14:33:25 SpeedEvil, agreed Jun 26 14:33:30 (except fm tx/rx which is being worked on) Jun 26 14:33:31 DocScrutinizer, for example? Jun 26 14:33:56 SpeedEvil: it would be awesome, but I think if that was possible it would be available Jun 26 14:34:00 all the drivers for the closed bits won't get updates or bugfixes Jun 26 14:34:04 For the same reason the N950 is around Jun 26 14:34:23 DocScrutinizer: I don't think that is entirely true Jun 26 14:34:45 DocScrutinizer: as long as we have any Nokia involvement in MeeGo CE, there will be people available to handle updates to the drivers. Jun 26 14:34:52 alterego, the reason why it isn't available on the N900, is ignorance. no techical reasons there methinks Jun 26 14:34:52 alterego: how are you working on it, do you have schematics? Jun 26 14:34:58 haha Jun 26 14:35:11 alterego: (re fmtx/rx) Jun 26 14:35:15 Venemo: I think maybe the lack of memory might have something to do with it ;) Jun 26 14:35:39 javispedro: it's being worked on inside Nokia, we need permission to make the drivers redistributable. Jun 26 14:35:42 alterego, well, Harmattan uses MTF, which on MeeGo CE can run on the N900's limited memory Jun 26 14:35:43 they don't even have time for stupid thing like fix a bug in a fremantle lib, for which community delivers the patch already Jun 26 14:35:56 Venemo: don't confuse the N950 with MeeGo CE :P Jun 26 14:36:19 DocScrutinizer: N900 is dead :P Jun 26 14:36:30 what makes you think that *magical* involvement into CE will change things for N950 Jun 26 14:36:35 pfff Jun 26 14:36:36 alterego, MeeGo CE will run on the N900 and the N950 as well. and since MeeGo CE uses the same UX as Harmattan, conclusion is that Harmattan could run on the N900 as well Jun 26 14:36:45 DocScrutinizer: because it has done for the N900 wrt MeeGo CE Jun 26 14:36:50 oh Jun 26 14:36:54 Venemo: well, it doesn't. Jun 26 14:37:04 yes, but that's only for marketing reasons Jun 26 14:37:05 seems that the n950 application formatting bug it's fixed Jun 26 14:37:07 Venemo: just it could be a very heavy MTF for all you know. Jun 26 14:37:14 we'll see Jun 26 14:37:42 yeah, we'll see soon enough Jun 26 14:38:01 I don't think trollop will tolerate his employees "wasting their time for updating a dead OS for a dead platform" Jun 26 14:38:04 As long as all hte devs that get it aren't making angry birds clones. Jun 26 14:38:12 DocScrutinizer: N900 is dead :P Jun 26 14:38:14 (which is a valid task - but still) Jun 26 14:38:26 That's why MeeGo's using it as the devel device then? :P Jun 26 14:38:28 MohammadAG: in the context of Nokia, Jun 26 14:38:33 A valid and important task. Jun 26 14:38:39 the N900 is far from dead Jun 26 14:39:19 DocScrutinizer: they've setup a permanent "meego hacker space" in a new factory in Tampere for Nokia people to work on what they want to work on when they have free time. Jun 26 14:39:27 with MeeGo, the N900 will have a long and happy life Jun 26 14:39:43 DocScrutinizer: as long as there are people in Nokia still interested, we'll still get the drivers we require for MeeGo CE Jun 26 14:39:46 alterego: good news Jun 26 14:40:01 but you know about the lawyer issue Jun 26 14:40:08 Sure Jun 26 14:40:12 alterego, in the context of Nokia the N900 was dead since PR1.3 Jun 26 14:40:28 MohammadAG: sure, I never put a starting time for it ;) Jun 26 14:40:42 I'm just saying the N900 outside of MeeGo CE is dead to Nokia Jun 26 14:40:50 Not that the device is dead, I still love the N900 Jun 26 14:41:03 And I hope I have at the very least another happy 2-3 years with the device. Jun 26 14:41:12 Hacking it to do whatever I feel like getting it to do :) Jun 26 14:41:39 Like, turning it into a wall mounted home automation controller. Jun 26 14:41:42 i usually change device every 1½ year but with no clear successor to N900 i'll stay a little bit longer hoping for a MeeGo device w/keyboard, wherever it comes from Jun 26 14:41:59 yeah Jun 26 14:42:06 * FIQ|n900 hopes he doesn't have to wait too long Jun 26 14:42:13 FIQ|n900: I change when a new device enthrawls me to get it :) Jun 26 14:42:21 yeah Jun 26 14:42:24 I've had the N900 since Febuary last year. Jun 26 14:42:33 and that usually end up being every 1½ year :P Jun 26 14:42:34 I'm getting an N8 next week to play with Jun 26 14:42:41 In lieu of the N9 Jun 26 14:42:49 Which I'll get when it's released, probably get two infact. Jun 26 14:42:55 same here, but wanted it since oct the year before that Jun 26 14:42:55 * SpeedEvil ponders. Jun 26 14:43:02 sold out everywhere lol Jun 26 14:43:18 I hope there will be a proper MeeGo device from one vendor on another Jun 26 14:43:42 or* Jun 26 14:44:01 vendor doesn't count, as long as it is meego (or another nice linux distro for mobile phones popping up) and a hardware keyboard Jun 26 14:44:41 FIQ|n900 ++ Jun 26 14:45:00 I'm not too fussed about a "MeeGo Device" from some vendor, what is more important to me is we get a device that is as open as what we've had with Nokias NIT line. Jun 26 14:45:04 So flashable operating systems. Jun 26 14:45:08 yeah, give me a device with hardware keyboard, a full proper linux distro and a decent cellular chipset Jun 26 14:45:11 The ability to run anything we want on them Jun 26 14:45:13 alterego: Indeed Jun 26 14:45:19 alterego ++ Jun 26 14:45:19 alterego: It could come with WP7 Jun 26 14:45:21 yeah, that's what i mean Jun 26 14:45:33 alterego, you won't like it :P Jun 26 14:45:34 (though I don't think WP7 is slated for keyboards is it?) Jun 26 14:45:48 If Vendor (X) comes along with a proper MeeGo device, but it's DRM locked down and no ability to install a vanilla MeeGo OS, I'm not buying :) Jun 26 14:45:49 There are already WP7 handsets with physical keyboards Jun 26 14:45:58 alterego ++ Jun 26 14:46:12 pfft. Jun 26 14:46:19 Out of principle it's unlikely I'll buy a device with Windows Phone on it, even if it can be wiped off the device completely. Jun 26 14:46:28 when vendor X is the only one left doing meego handsets, you WILL buy it even if it is closed as an android device =) Jun 26 14:46:39 alterego: Even if it's unlocked by policy? Jun 26 14:46:41 (Which is unlikely) I imaigne the boot loader that Windows Phone uses is completely incompatible with what we've had. Jun 26 14:47:02 SpeedEvil: N9 is likely the last phone I get from Nokia, next devices will be MeeGo or Android. Jun 26 14:47:09 i liked the N900 because it was like the first phone i've ever seen that DIDN'T lock things down Jun 26 14:47:16 I see myself having to settle for a locked down device. Jun 26 14:47:17 FIQ|n900: It's my second. Jun 26 14:47:29 If HTC wasnt so crappy with releasing the GPL bits of their code (kernel etc) and if they didnt lock their phones down, I would probably have bought a HTC Desire Z Jun 26 14:47:30 SpeedEvil, what was your first? Jun 26 14:47:30 FIQ|n900: The first one kernel panicked on boot as there was no rootFS Jun 26 14:47:31 FIQ|n900 ++ Jun 26 14:47:36 FIQ|n900: you should've seen OM FR Jun 26 14:47:40 That's how to distribute a phone to hackers! Jun 26 14:47:41 alterego, you and a locked device? Jun 26 14:47:45 alterego, I doubt that Jun 26 14:47:45 openmoko? Jun 26 14:47:46 Actually, I'll rephrase, the N9 is likely the last device I _buy_ from Nokia. Jun 26 14:47:51 even OM 1973 Jun 26 14:48:21 SpeedEvil, nice :P Jun 26 14:48:52 I nearly bought a Nexus S Jun 26 14:48:58 but it has no hardware keyboard, so no dice Jun 26 14:49:09 At least Samsung seem to be the most open of the Android vendors Jun 26 14:49:14 are we sure that N9 even will be free from locked-down-policy-fail? Jun 26 14:49:26 Android seems like a good way to go, if we can get a device that has its' drivers mostly open. Jun 26 14:49:42 Installing MeeGo on most Android handsets seems quite plausible. Jun 26 14:49:43 alterego: most android devices have open drivers, minus graphics Jun 26 14:49:48 On an unrelated matter. Does anyone know if there is a published API for the NFC?// Jun 26 14:49:51 wmarone: indeed. Jun 26 14:49:54 On the n9 Jun 26 14:49:58 they're just coding disasters hiding in a tarball Jun 26 14:50:06 Heh Jun 26 14:50:18 * wmarone is having his fill with the nook color Jun 26 14:50:20 Okay, installed the latest Qt SDK Jun 26 14:50:29 The biggest problem with Android devices is all the closed-source userspace bits that are essential to the phone and unusable with anything other than Android Jun 26 14:50:31 i.e. will it come with root access directly (or as easily accessible as on maemo)? Jun 26 14:50:35 It said, (1.8G) it's used 2.4 .. Jun 26 14:50:45 Such as say the telephony stack Jun 26 14:50:54 or the wifi userspace bits Jun 26 14:52:33 worst case, I will get myself a MeeGo tablet and a dumbphone Jun 26 14:52:34 Even the "open" Nexus S has binary blob for the graphics, binary blob for WiFi, binary blob for GPS, binary blob for bluetooth, binary NFC blob and binary cell modem/cell stack blob Jun 26 14:52:41 SpeedEvil: I've only seen nfc sharing plugin Jun 26 14:54:20 and I'm not even sure where... Jun 26 14:55:14 SpeedEvil: also: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.2/connectivity-api.html#nfc-classes which maybe works. Jun 26 14:55:29 Binary blobs - if with adequate kernel insulation layers, and good APIs are barely tollerable Jun 26 14:55:35 javispedro: Thanks Jun 26 14:56:12 what I don't understand is, why are closed drivers in the vendors' interest? Jun 26 14:56:27 Price Jun 26 14:56:33 SpeedEvil: (NFC) I found the chip, and press rant about it Jun 26 14:56:39 no datasheet though Jun 26 14:56:39 And it's not the vendors that close them, it's the chipset manufactures Jun 26 14:57:09 press link? Jun 26 14:57:18 If you've got it handy Jun 26 14:57:26 look at your page Jun 26 14:57:42 N950 ;-P Jun 26 14:57:49 Ah - OK. I am takng a break on it till money - I'll start figging throug stuff till then Jun 26 14:57:50 I messed sth up Jun 26 14:57:55 monday Jun 26 14:58:01 flogging Jun 26 14:58:14 haha Jun 26 14:58:26 So there's no Harmattan device simulator? Jun 26 14:58:44 alterego, price? Jun 26 14:58:47 * javispedro knows why on the n9 videos, when they "swipe" out the video, it is "wiped" instead of translated like any other app Jun 26 14:59:01 Interesting questions are stuff like 'what does it do with a 'dead' n9 battery' Jun 26 14:59:11 yup Jun 26 14:59:22 active/passive/dual-role Jun 26 14:59:34 OTA power Jun 26 14:59:37 or not Jun 26 14:59:38 And can it be stopped doing that. Jun 26 14:59:45 YEAH indeed Jun 26 14:59:47 alterego, for one, why is it in Nokia's interest to close their drivers to that their devices can only be used with the operating systems of their choice. so why is this in their interest? Jun 26 14:59:54 For example - if you usually have it configured as a doorkey - can you easily turn that off. Jun 26 14:59:55 Researchers over in the land of the robot-obsessed have found a new, non-invasive way to control your hand while your brain recoils in horror. Jun 26 14:59:57 well, some tin foil will do ;-P Jun 26 15:00:03 Venemo: Nokia don't close the drivers, the drivers are closed Jun 26 15:00:23 Venemo: companies like Imagination close the drivres, and deliver pre-built ones to the vendor Jun 26 15:00:27 Nokia buy the chips from a vendor that manufactures them, they say that these drivers have to stay closed. Jun 26 15:00:31 try NXP Jun 26 15:00:35 okay Jun 26 15:00:38 wmarone: actually the do give the source Jun 26 15:00:42 sometimes they are helpful Jun 26 15:00:44 Nokia have the source for the SGX drivers. Jun 26 15:00:46 so why is this in the chip vendors' interest? Jun 26 15:00:51 alterego: depends on the size of the company buying the chip Jun 26 15:01:06 They're just not allowed to distribute the source, what we do have, is the ability to _redistribute_ freely the binary versions of the driver. Jun 26 15:01:06 Venemo: It's not particularly. Jun 26 15:01:15 http://www.theonion.com/articles/military-releases-drones-suicide-note,19231/ army drone releases suicide note Jun 26 15:01:24 SpeedEvil, then why are they making it this way? Jun 26 15:01:28 Venemo: It's simply that they have no incentive to make it open Jun 26 15:01:43 Venemo: 99.9% of phone vendors don't give a shit. Jun 26 15:01:51 Given that PowerVR is the clear #1 buy a far margin in the mobile space, there is no incentive for imagination to give out code Jun 26 15:02:05 OTOH publishing datasheets summons the patent trolls and whatnot else Jun 26 15:02:06 wrt to SGX, that area of the market is so feirce with competition, maybe keeping the drivers closed is in their best interest. Jun 26 15:02:39 Also it may in princile give some control over the secondary market. Jun 26 15:02:42 Principle. Jun 26 15:02:46 alterego, pfft. That's nothing. Everyone has the SGX blob source code. Even I have it - here's a link to it: http://tinyurl.com/y8ufsnp Jun 26 15:02:51 I hope Intel's mobile chips will have their graphics chips too and they will have open drivers Jun 26 15:02:58 meh, as with schematics for hardware, you can RE the working principles for drivers Jun 26 15:03:13 Binary blobs are only adequate if they are compiled for the right runtime libraries (libc etc) and the right ABI/instruction set Jun 26 15:03:18 Venemo: Intel is doing SGX these days too Jun 26 15:03:19 Venemo: intel's mobile chip division has already opted for SGX Jun 26 15:03:28 If you say that you only get a licence to the blob if you buy it through the official supplychain, then that is a big plus for chip vendors Jun 26 15:03:29 because for some reason their existing lowpower gfx chips are crap/underfunded Jun 26 15:03:36 large manufacturers have no problem to get 50 devices to kill them, also no problem to get 50 hackers to RE the drivers Jun 26 15:03:39 As it eliminates the secondary market to companies in the west Jun 26 15:03:46 DocScrutinizer: Bullshit. Jun 26 15:03:48 And the binary blobs for the Nexus S are compiled for Android rather than Linus Jun 26 15:03:55 DocScrutinizer: Recruiting 50 hackers is trivial. Jun 26 15:04:12 jonwil, he's wife compiles all over him everyday Jun 26 15:04:16 his* Jun 26 15:04:20 Termana: I know you well enough to know that you're probably trying to link jack me :P Jun 26 15:04:23 DocScrutinizer: Recruiting 50 hackers skilled in ARM reverse engineering, and who have a clue as to how hardware works is very not trivial. Jun 26 15:04:23 I mean Linux Jun 26 15:04:25 :) Jun 26 15:04:32 Termana, I did click on that link.... damn. Jun 26 15:04:38 hehe :p Jun 26 15:04:38 HAHAH! Jun 26 15:04:40 I was right Jun 26 15:04:42 :) Jun 26 15:04:52 Poor Venemo has to learn the hard way :P Jun 26 15:04:52 indeed, we only have 2.3 ones here in this channel Jun 26 15:05:04 2.31 Jun 26 15:05:06 Venemo: it is a great song, I'm starting to like it for some reason. Jun 26 15:05:09 I know 7 opcodes! Jun 26 15:05:44 .31 of a hacker? Is that 1 whole person without a beard? Jun 26 15:05:47 SpeedEvil: I know better idea! Jun 26 15:05:48 The corrolory to 'given enough eyes, all bugs are shallow' Jun 26 15:06:03 SpeedEvil:Let us employ 100 wizards with Merlin at the helm! Jun 26 15:06:06 Is that the eyes have to understand the area they're looking at. Jun 26 15:06:13 the point with gfx drivers especially is they always cheat, and this isn't a fact you put on a press release Jun 26 15:06:15 See the openssh screwups. Jun 26 15:06:48 I would LOVE to see either Intel or AMD/ATI start making a PowerVR competitor Jun 26 15:06:55 DocScrutinizer, cheat how? Jun 26 15:07:03 jonwil, me too Jun 26 15:07:10 AMD/ATI would be perfect Jun 26 15:07:10 DocScrutinizer, in this instance the excuse "But everyone else does it, so it's totally cool man" would be absolutely fine Jun 26 15:07:15 Venemo: in several ways Jun 26 15:07:20 Especially if it was as open as their desktop and laptop GPUs Jun 26 15:07:29 jonwil: both Intel and AMD _used_ to do PowerVR competitors Jun 26 15:07:44 jonwil: Intel = destroyed it and went PowerVR; AMD = Sold off the division Jun 26 15:08:07 I think PowerVR has too much market share for anyone to try and beat them Jun 26 15:08:25 javispedro, they're doing it still afaik. intel now engraves their GPUs onto the CPUs in the Core i3-5-7 afaik Jun 26 15:08:41 Venemo: e.g they may deliver less fps than they say they do, less resolution, artifacts you won't see without knowing about them, etc pp Jun 26 15:08:44 Intel makes desktop GPUs Jun 26 15:08:48 Venemo: Intel is more interested in competing with desktop gpus than mobile Jun 26 15:08:59 jonwil, not entirely true for mobile. Snapdragon chipsets don't use PowerVR, and they seem to be doing fine. Jun 26 15:09:10 About their only competitors are Qualcomm (who are even MORE proprietary than PowerVR) Jun 26 15:09:20 or NVIDIA with their Tegra line Jun 26 15:09:22 also closed Jun 26 15:09:29 javispedro, at their current "performance", intel is not competing with desktop GPUs Jun 26 15:09:33 Termana: jonwil: the other one is the ex-AMD mobile graphics division, now called the Adreno iirc Jun 26 15:09:43 Venemo: the fact that they suck at it is not relevant :D Jun 26 15:09:47 javispedro: which is owned by Qualcomm Jun 26 15:09:50 javispedro, yeah, which Qualcomm owns Jun 26 15:09:54 (snapdragon) Jun 26 15:09:56 Intel isn't trying to compete with the high-end GPU market Jun 26 15:10:11 they are trying to produce mainstream GPUs for desktops and laptops Jun 26 15:10:15 I keep calling it snapdragon, but is that even what they call their newer chipsets? Jun 26 15:10:36 that can do video playback, Windows 7 Aero hardware accelleration, web browsing and stuff Jun 26 15:10:42 Termana: like the Exnyos? Jun 26 15:10:42 SoCs rather Jun 26 15:10:53 jonwil, their "mainstream" GPUs can't run even the basic games Jun 26 15:11:14 They dont even try to make gaming GPUs Jun 26 15:11:16 * wmarone wants samsung to expose the PCIe lanes in the SoC Jun 26 15:11:25 also, common knowledge says the Adrenos suck Jun 26 15:11:47 Exynos is Samsung isn't it? Jun 26 15:11:54 Uses Mali-400 Jun 26 15:12:02 Termana: yes Jun 26 15:12:34 jonwil, they should Jun 26 15:12:35 heh, I'm still waiting for raster's enlightenment based SLP distribution to see the light of day Jun 26 15:12:45 javispedro, can you start any Qt app in the ARMEL target? Jun 26 15:13:02 MohammadAG, the ARMEL target is usually only for compiling Jun 26 15:13:11 MohammadAG: I think yes. Either way I wouldn't care much about ARMEL.. Jun 26 15:14:01 Did someone say yesterday that the qemu rootfs is downloaded with the harmattan scratchbox installer? Jun 26 15:14:06 which mobile gfx chip designer would you bet has more changes to open their drivers Jun 26 15:14:08 ? Jun 26 15:14:09 Venemo, the UI starts on ARMEL, unlike fremantle Jun 26 15:14:14 Where's the rootfs image so I can boot it with qemu? Jun 26 15:14:18 MohammadAG, interesting Jun 26 15:14:38 Imgtec (PowerVR), ARM (Mali), nvidia (geforce sth), or Qualcomm (Adreno)? Jun 26 15:14:56 IMHO 1st ARM, 2nd is actually Imgtec. Jun 26 15:15:04 aloisiojr, http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/d6-beta.php?f=arm-qemu-rm680_linux_i686.tar.gz ? Jun 26 15:15:08 err, alterego Jun 26 15:15:15 I do know imgtech made some handwaving a while back about opening up their drivers Jun 26 15:15:20 or http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/d6-beta.php?f=arm-qemu-rm680_linux_x86_64.tar.gz Jun 26 15:15:26 Although it may be that they were talking about the kernel bits Jun 26 15:15:30 and not the userspace bits Jun 26 15:15:36 I saw that Jun 26 15:15:42 back then kernel (n900) was already open Jun 26 15:15:59 jonwil: they've done that, qualcomm has as well Jun 26 15:16:01 n900 was great Jun 26 15:16:03 Looking at the Nexus S binary blobs, it looks like we have a binary firmware for a Broadcomm bcm4329, a binary GPS daemon and shared library, PowerVR blobs, a NXP .so for the Nexus NFC plus firmware and 2 .so files for the cell modem Jun 26 15:16:13 qualcomm tried to push their kernel changes upstream, and got rejected hard :) Jun 26 15:16:17 btw Jun 26 15:16:17 especially nokia spending a half million dollars to promote them to us Jun 26 15:16:26 I think the number of companies that still maintain binary kernel drivers is shrinking Jun 26 15:16:31 something interesting is that PowerVR is going to make a VAAPI compatible drop Jun 26 15:16:38 jonwil, yeah they just let them rot instead Jun 26 15:16:52 * DocScrutinizer throws in a sidenote that even Openmoko, though *dedicated* to openness, never managed to disclose the GFX docs Jun 26 15:16:58 I mean the number of companies that push binary drivers instead of source Jun 26 15:17:04 I didn't think powervr does anything that'd be useful in a vaapi context... Jun 26 15:17:24 These days a lot of companies either open their source completly Jun 26 15:17:36 DocScrutinizer, why? Jun 26 15:17:38 or move the secret bits into userspace daemons and shared libs Jun 26 15:17:44 and release kernel code Jun 26 15:18:03 ShadowJK: if they're releasing the blob it must mean so.... though I bet this is for atom chips. Jun 26 15:18:15 Venemo: the options to oick nice manufacturers were limited, and the NDA was like signed with blood Jun 26 15:18:28 s/oick/pick/ Jun 26 15:18:28 DocScrutinizer meant: Venemo: the options to pick nice manufacturers were limited, and the NDA was like signed with blood Jun 26 15:18:43 but why was it? Jun 26 15:18:56 S-Media Jun 26 15:19:01 :shrug: Jun 26 15:19:02 Hmm. That can't be right. Jun 26 15:19:09 s/Dibblah/SomeoneElse/ Jun 26 15:19:14 Awww... Jun 26 15:19:14 The #1 problem with PowerVR in the ATOM chips is the complete lack of ANY usable linux drivers Jun 26 15:19:34 Ask anyone trying to run linux on Polsburo hardware how hard it is to get graphics going Jun 26 15:19:52 Venemo: then there were also some poor decisions inhouse about which way to go about GFX Jun 26 15:20:01 they got graphics going? Jun 26 15:20:16 I think some people have said that the OpenMoko Freerunner would have been BETTER without a GPU at all Jun 26 15:20:20 as basically the S-Media glamo GFX was worse than the CPU direct FB ;-P Jun 26 15:20:28 yeah Jun 26 15:20:29 :D Jun 26 15:21:27 but it came with another interface which we needed to stick WLAN on Jun 26 15:21:47 S3C6410 seems to have leaked datasheets all over, and seems to have pretty usable GFX on its own :) Jun 26 15:21:52 By far the 2 hardest parts to find for anyone doing a small-scale or "open" cell phone are the GPU and the cell modem Jun 26 15:21:55 and nobody did *ALL* the math before the damage was done Jun 26 15:22:28 ShadowJK, no publicly released drivers AFAIK, and still has blobs Jun 26 15:22:35 S3C64xx is quite another class than S3C2442 ;-D Jun 26 15:22:48 Even the OLPC project is having trouble finding an ARM SoC for their next model that is anywhere near open enough Jun 26 15:22:50 still not as nice as OMAP in my book Jun 26 15:22:51 Termana, well, sure :P Jun 26 15:23:20 the ARM OLPC will probably have to have a dumb framebuffer out of the box with some binary blobs available from somewhere non OLPC Jun 26 15:23:39 jonwil, and OLPC agrees with that? hard to believe Jun 26 15:24:19 it's take it or leave it Jun 26 15:24:28 Fact is, there IS no such thing as an open GPU in the ARM space Jun 26 15:24:38 yep Jun 26 15:24:47 The only way you can get ANY graphics at all in an open way is with a dumb framebuffer Jun 26 15:24:50 that's what they told me Jun 26 15:25:03 what is a "dumb framebuffer" Jun 26 15:25:26 simple 2d output with no hardware acceleration Jun 26 15:25:39 heh Jun 26 15:25:43 dumb was just being used as an adjective and not as apart of the noun Jun 26 15:25:45 in other words, software rendering? Jun 26 15:25:50 yes Jun 26 15:25:53 eh. Jun 26 15:26:17 Even the PS3 linux setup only gave you a simple framebuffer Jun 26 15:26:21 I still think ARM is the one that has most chances at the moment for opening the usermode parts (though for now they are not doing it) Jun 26 15:26:22 and no GPU acceleration Jun 26 15:26:37 I also think ARM is most likely Jun 26 15:26:58 so, if there is need for an open GPU for ARM, why is it that neither of the chip vendors make one? Jun 26 15:27:16 It's also that, even with documented hardware, there aren't that many people that can make an openGL driver out of it Jun 26 15:27:24 Venemo: none of them care Jun 26 15:27:43 doesn't aerm just lic the dev of the soc? Jun 26 15:27:43 meaning the companies tell arm what they need? Jun 26 15:27:47 they can sell their chips without open drives as well Jun 26 15:27:52 aerm/arm Jun 26 15:27:54 ShadowJK: does not help that it is a patent minefield Jun 26 15:28:04 It may be that ARM dont want to open their blobs because they know that the moment they do, Imagination Tech, NVIDIA and others will order their patent lawyers to pour over every single line of code looking for even the tiniest thing they can use to sue Jun 26 15:28:25 maybe Jun 26 15:28:32 As for the comment about drivers being hard to write, go ask anyone working on the open ATI drivers how hard it is Jun 26 15:28:36 i mean i only ask because if the "open community" is so hell bent on an open soc... buy one from arm :) Jun 26 15:28:39 And they have full vendor support and documentation Jun 26 15:28:47 ARM is open, GFX is not ARM Jun 26 15:29:03 a SoC has more than an ARM core Jun 26 15:29:07 then buy the lic from a gfx company Jun 26 15:29:12 to open it Jun 26 15:29:19 or have them dev one that is open Jun 26 15:29:23 money talks Jun 26 15:29:31 * Termana spits his non-existent coffee at Macer Jun 26 15:29:37 the "open community" is not big enough for any vendor (ARM, ImgTech or otherwise) to care Jun 26 15:29:53 sure it is Jun 26 15:30:12 money talks... pay the right amount and tell them what you need and they will do it Jun 26 15:30:20 yeah money talks Jun 26 15:30:30 money talks. Sure, do you have a couple of millions dollars to start with? Jun 26 15:30:33 but opening your source can also generate money Jun 26 15:30:41 And they will want you to cover future revenue Jun 26 15:30:48 and that fact your opening up all their IP Jun 26 15:30:48 Termana: no.. but how long would donations take for that? Jun 26 15:30:56 probably not too long Jun 26 15:31:09 how long does it take to collect half a billion.. Jun 26 15:31:09 Macer, in that case, why hasn't it happened yet? Jun 26 15:31:15 Termana: not really.. not if it is from the ground up open Jun 26 15:31:17 divan, thanks for The echo nest, it looks awesome Jun 26 15:31:18 puh-lease Jun 26 15:31:21 Venemo: nobody tried? Jun 26 15:31:25 :) Jun 26 15:31:30 Macer, go forth and multiply my friend Jun 26 15:31:34 or thinks it can be done Jun 26 15:31:41 or even asked? Jun 26 15:31:50 :) assumptions Jun 26 15:31:52 If you can do it, I will buy you a Lamborghini. Jun 26 15:31:58 LOL!! Jun 26 15:32:08 a OpenSource Lamborghini! Jun 26 15:32:22 running maemo on its car computer! Jun 26 15:32:45 a n900 is kind of like a sports car Jun 26 15:32:58 that can transform Jun 26 15:32:59 javispedro, yeah well, I was kind of thinking... replica :p But I can arrange Maemo on it! :p Jun 26 15:33:00 MohammadAG, yep, I'm a excited about it as well. Will release app soon, Jun 26 15:33:06 Actually there's an opengraphics project, they've been working on building an open graphics core. Jun 26 15:33:11 DrMongle, more than meets the eye? Jun 26 15:33:20 Termana, Macer: maybe you're better off with MeeGo IVI than Maemo on that Jun 26 15:33:26 Termana: or ask the gfx owner of the n900 how much for the lic Jun 26 15:33:27 ShadowJK, don't forget openhardware and opencores ;) Jun 26 15:33:36 their biggest fear of course being the chinese Jun 26 15:33:41 They have a board with a few FPGA.. costs about 1500 with developer discount ;) Jun 26 15:33:43 ShadowJK: LOL that silicon dump? Jun 26 15:33:51 and their knockoff replication capability Jun 26 15:33:54 :) Jun 26 15:34:05 divan, any git repo? Jun 26 15:34:07 china ruined true open devices Jun 26 15:34:14 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Graphics_Project Jun 26 15:34:16 russia too but not as bad Jun 26 15:34:17 MohammadAG, not yet. Jun 26 15:34:20 Macer, don't mess with me, did you see what I did to DrMongle up there? I merely spoke to him and that forced him to leave. Jun 26 15:34:25 Macer, "china ruined true open devices" -> why? Jun 26 15:34:29 Macer: You need to not only buy the rights to an opensource GFX driver - it has to be a compelling driver that's actually worth vendors using Jun 26 15:34:45 Venemo: "omg they'll copy our stuff!" Jun 26 15:34:52 SpeedEvil: fair enough Jun 26 15:35:04 Macer: Where vendors = the several people actually interested in putting that in silicon Jun 26 15:35:29 wmarone, they are copying anyway Jun 26 15:35:51 MohammadAG, only a couple of screenshots :)) http://imgur.com/a/11sKd Jun 26 15:35:57 Venemo: they may be, but that's no solace to the companies in question Jun 26 15:36:00 :) Jun 26 15:36:11 Macer: and the cost/benefit has to be in that devices favour - if the non-open source is a fraction of a square milimeter smaller, or lower power, or ... it will get picked unless the benefits of that are outweighed by the lack of required licencing. Jun 26 15:36:15 yeah, you can get Nokla N950 already, from China X-P Jun 26 15:36:27 hehe Jun 26 15:36:39 DocScrutinizer, really? Url? :) Jun 26 15:36:42 divan, nice Jun 26 15:36:47 running what? WM6.5? Jun 26 15:36:47 sorry Jun 26 15:37:12 divan, got a screenshot showing how the parsed data shows? :P Jun 26 15:37:21 the_awsome_max.zn dunno, google for Nokia N950 Jun 26 15:37:35 95$ Jun 26 15:37:39 omh Jun 26 15:37:40 1.2 Ghz Jun 26 15:37:53 dual sim Jun 26 15:38:34 they should just start rolling their own phones instead of calling them knockoffs Jun 26 15:38:44 http://la3218.en.hisupplier.com/product-733698-Nokia-N950-1-2GHz-32GB-12MP-MeeGo-1-2-smartphone-USD-338.html Jun 26 15:38:46 MohammadAG, :) At the moment it's just QLabel saying "Artist - Song name" )) Will add nice UI as soon as finish everything else. Jun 26 15:38:49 they got exactly one chipset and refrence design, and they throw it into whatever case and branding they see fit Jun 26 15:38:51 watch that one Jun 26 15:40:14 it even has a 12MP cam, I am getting one now! Jun 26 15:40:49 meh, I have an MP3 player with a 25MP cam from China Jun 26 15:41:18 At least the website has great recommendations! Jun 26 15:41:24 Related Products: Hamburger Phone Jun 26 15:41:32 MohammadAG: can you eat it at least? Jun 26 15:42:12 *burp* best $700 ever spent Jun 26 15:42:38 [17:36] they got exactly one chipset and refrence design, and they throw it into whatever case and branding they see fit -> ??? Jun 26 15:42:38 javispedro, course you can Jun 26 15:42:48 I wish the western world had the guts to stand up to China for all the human rights violations and crap that goes on. Unfortunatly, there are 3 problems with that:First is that the western world has borrowed so much money (and continues to borrow so much money) from China that they cant afford to go after them Jun 26 15:43:19 after all, you dont declare war on the country providing you with the money you need to pay the very soldiers who are fighting for you. Jun 26 15:43:30 Neat, my two core libraries for Columbus compile under Harmattan with no special additions :) Jun 26 15:43:57 jonwil: also guantanamo Jun 26 15:44:27 Next is to separate the maemo5 specific UX code from the generic columbus code, then create a new plugin thingy. Jun 26 15:44:46 Second is that so much stuff is made in china (because no matter how much countries like Mexico, Brazil, India, Vietnam etc try, they cant beat the chinese on manufacturing and labor costs) that the west cant afford to say no to China. Jun 26 15:45:30 jonwil: indeed Jun 26 15:45:51 I guarantee you that if the US government EVER tried to do something about china (war, sanctions, whatever else) they would have the president of Wal-Mart on their ass as fast as his corporate jet could get him to DC Jun 26 15:46:00 actually some companies are already moving out of china to cheaper parts :P Jun 26 15:46:10 javispedro can you post the output of echo $SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD in the SDK? Jun 26 15:46:20 X86 target Jun 26 15:46:26 jonwil, well also China is the biggest creditor :P Jun 26 15:46:37 I already mentioned that :) Jun 26 15:46:38 he already said that Jun 26 15:46:39 MohammadAG: unset Jun 26 15:47:20 with regards to manufacturing, what I want to know is why more US companies and retailers dont try to subsidise factories in Mexico and central america. Jun 26 15:47:31 javispedro, /scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set Jun 26 15:47:39 MohammadAG: doing what? Jun 26 15:47:46 meego-arm appname Jun 26 15:47:52 jonwil: What's in it for them? Jun 26 15:48:00 MohammadAG: meego-arm??? Jun 26 15:48:14 meego-run, sorry, sleep deprivation Jun 26 15:48:21 MohammadAG: you are trying to run an armel binary for somer ason Jun 26 15:48:26 MohammadAG: run file on "appname" Jun 26 15:48:54 The advantage of manufacturing in central america is that that they dont need to follow the strict chinese rules (that e.g. require partnership with chinese companies) Jun 26 15:49:18 oh Jun 26 15:49:27 So they wouldnt be giving all their valuable IP to to these chinese companies (many of whom are owned by or in bed with the chinese government) Jun 26 15:49:41 Also the transport costs from Mexico are lower than those from China Jun 26 15:49:44 jrayhawk: ping Jun 26 15:49:47 which would be an advantage' Jun 26 15:50:14 Plus, by making stuff in that part of the world, you could give those people jobs and make it far less likely that they will try to get jobs in the USA Jun 26 15:50:20 which may not matter to US companies Jun 26 15:50:31 but it would be something the US government would care about Jun 26 15:51:01 jonwil: But absent governmental incentives - why would they? Jun 26 15:51:24 This is a major problem with free trade - you can't control what your companies do other than with the most blunt instruments Jun 26 15:51:39 As mentioned, avoiding the need to give their IP to the chinese is one big reason for companies to investigate other countries Jun 26 15:52:21 Think about all those factories in china that make Nike shoes by day and at night make fake Jun 26 15:52:23 One concern I've heard is many south american workers are very much less productive. Jun 26 15:52:24 fake Nike shoos Jun 26 15:52:27 shoes Jun 26 15:52:44 using the same tooling and plant but cheaper materials Jun 26 15:52:44 I don't know if that's true. Jun 26 15:52:45 hmm all the nike shoes I've had so far always had a Made in Vietnam Jun 26 15:52:51 maybe Jun 26 15:53:00 if its not Nike, its others Jun 26 15:53:04 golf clubs Jun 26 15:53:07 handbags Jun 26 15:53:19 wallets Jun 26 15:53:37 There is an awful lot of bootleg crap made in china Jun 26 15:54:13 well almost everything is made in china these days Jun 26 15:54:34 well most electronics atleast Jun 26 15:55:28 even babies are made in china these days Jun 26 15:55:33 About the only thing that doesnt have a Made In China label on it these days are cars Jun 26 15:55:54 And even then, there are at least 3 chinese car companies trying to sell cars in Australia Jun 26 15:56:19 ghost shifts are a know problem Jun 26 15:57:23 I am surprised we havent seen ghost shifts happening for electronics Jun 26 15:58:06 I guess the issue there is that no-one makes a el-cheapo repalcement for a TI OMAP Jun 26 15:58:23 whereas el-cheapo replacements for whatever they make handbags or golf-clubs out of are easy to find Jun 26 15:58:41 I imagine those are easier to make Jun 26 16:00:03 I posted my latest CBSMS stuff to the mailing list btw Jun 26 16:01:19 Actually there have been ghost shift microsdhc :P Jun 26 16:01:29 yeah but those are simple to make Jun 26 16:01:35 kingston sold them as their own :> Jun 26 16:01:46 plus there are plenty of cheap flash chips out there you can use Jun 26 16:01:49 they are crap and unreliable Jun 26 16:01:51 but cheap Jun 26 16:02:43 Funny thing about the transport costs though, I like buying stuff online from china, because shipping isn't a rip-off :P Jun 26 16:02:50 Its when you start talking things like CPUs, GPUs, audio chips and fancy stuff that it gets hard Jun 26 16:03:58 longsoon is a bit underpowered and powerhungry still :/ Jun 26 16:05:13 * jonwil wonders if using bits of libbmeipc-dev from Harmattan SDK for Fremantle work is going to get me in trouble... Jun 26 16:05:52 nope Jun 26 16:05:57 is it nonfree? Jun 26 16:06:23 jonwil: if it is nonfree, the eula is here: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/d6-beta.php in case you want to read it. Jun 26 16:06:32 ;P Jun 26 16:06:56 "The Licensee shall be entitled to exploit the license granted to it by Jun 26 16:06:56 Nokia under and in accordance with this Agreement solely for the purpose of Jun 26 16:06:56 porting and developing software for the MAEMO-Platform" Jun 26 16:07:00 note: not meego =) Jun 26 16:07:08 does M6 have upower? Jun 26 16:08:43 The good news is that most of what I need is in http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-device-adaptation/n900_libbme/blobs/2e163b3d02e0b6a48830f0bfb047d00ccd965373/include/bmemsg.h Jun 26 16:09:03 which is GPL per http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-device-adaptation/n900_libbme/blobs/2e163b3d02e0b6a48830f0bfb047d00ccd965373/COPYING Jun 26 16:09:17 well LGPL Jun 26 16:09:36 javispedro: LOL Jun 26 16:10:48 I ponder if I should file a bug about being legally forbidden from doing any Meego work using this Meego Harmattan Platform SDK Jun 26 16:12:02 javispedro: now THAT are those over critical lawyers @ Nokia, who are so ompossible to pass by even with silly things like saying "charge this battery to max X.y Volt, and don't heat to more than, and here's what the saftety switch does..." Jun 26 16:13:26 * GAN900 doesn't know how people use On Live. Jun 26 16:13:26 lawyers and volts in the same sentence? and you're not talking about giving lawyers some electrical shock? does not compute! Jun 26 16:14:44 jonwil: I think we already figured all this, I even have the meego bme stuff open in my browser right now. I didn't suggest to replace hald-addon-bme without pondering if and how it can be done Jun 26 16:15:00 Anyhow, with that LGPL stuff linked to and a couple of #defines pulled from somewhere, it should be possible to completly clone all of hald-addon-bme except all the syslog stuff Jun 26 16:15:10 yeah I know, I intend to clone hald-addon-bme Jun 26 16:15:58 clone it so that it uses sysfs or direct access to chips, alternatively. Rather than bme IPC Jun 26 16:16:01 then others can hack on my clone and make it e.g. talk to backends other than Nokia BME Jun 26 16:16:39 honestly the bme IPC is most foggy part of it Jun 26 16:16:50 * ShadowJK wonders if the battery icon in MeeGo CE talks to bme or talks to sysfs Jun 26 16:16:51 the rest is straight forward Jun 26 16:17:25 I already figured out 90% of the bmeipc bits Jun 26 16:17:29 I have NO idea Jun 26 16:17:40 so its not like finishing the job and writing the clone is going to be hard Jun 26 16:17:58 so anyone used the meego community edition on the n900 yet? Jun 26 16:18:04 as there's no proper papers describing such "global" macroscopic things Jun 26 16:19:08 jonwil: if you're talking about CE then that's CE bme Jun 26 16:19:21 I think it differs quite a bit Jun 26 16:20:28 no, actually, the bits of the interface that matter seem to match between the libbmeipc I have from nokia-binaries and the git links I posted Jun 26 16:20:40 I mean hald-addon-bme from nokia-binaries Jun 26 16:20:45 not libbmeipc Jun 26 16:20:59 This is from maeno fremantle SDK nokia-binaries btw Jun 26 16:21:30 so yes I can come up with a proper clone for Fremantle and its BME that uses the info from various versions of the MeeGo n900_libbme tree Jun 26 16:26:15 ruskie, spent midsummer holidays experimenting with it Jun 26 16:26:24 Will be GPL-ing my hald-addon-bme clone so the license of the n900_libbme bits (all of the code in that repo that I can see is LGPL) is not a problem :) Jun 26 16:26:37 I will also be GPL-ing any and all of the Cell Broadcast SMS bits Jun 26 16:26:46 including the GUI bit Jun 26 16:27:10 ShadowJK, the latest build? 2011-06-23? Jun 26 16:27:20 Have to GPL that stuff anyway, ofono is GPL and I am/will be using bits of ofono code Jun 26 16:27:22 :) Jun 26 16:27:29 06-23.1 Jun 26 16:27:54 sounds right Jun 26 16:28:06 usable? used the sd card right? Jun 26 16:28:25 heh Jun 26 16:28:37 not really Jun 26 16:29:04 Yeah sd card Jun 26 16:32:27 well, that's one app done, till they get window stacking done http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1039461&postcount=609 Jun 26 16:33:46 I do not think stacking in the hildon sense will ever work Jun 26 16:34:00 andre__, is bugs.maemo.org the right place to report Harmattan SDK bugs? Jun 26 16:34:22 devel.nokia or something Jun 26 16:37:34 javispedro, stacking worked fine in MTF afaik Jun 26 16:37:42 exactly. Jun 26 16:37:50 it is implemented _inside_ mtf. Jun 26 16:38:56 Meanwhile:http://kde.org/announcements/announce-4.7-rc1.php Jun 26 16:41:20 I find it funny that the Nokia WP7 developer site has like 100 posts. Max. And videos of HTC devices. Jun 26 16:43:37 and 3 wiki pages, and all of them have been written by a QML fan whose goal clearly was ridiculize WP7's XAML. Jun 26 16:43:46 javispedro, and MTF is a big Qt subclass Jun 26 16:44:05 Moreover, I am sure Nokia's WP7 device will in fact be a relabelled HTC! Jun 26 16:44:27 * RST38h cackles sardonically Jun 26 16:44:37 well, I _hope_ the guy's goal was to ridiculize XAML. Otherwise, this is going to be fun. Jun 26 16:44:40 MohammadAG, no Jun 26 16:44:52 Harmattan has nothing to do with bugs.maemo.org Jun 26 16:45:35 developer.nokia.com or so Jun 26 16:45:42 andre: But shouldn't it? Jun 26 16:45:48 RST38h, why? Jun 26 16:45:56 andre: Well, it is still a Maemo! Jun 26 16:46:01 not really Jun 26 16:46:08 ah come on Jun 26 16:46:11 it's called "Maemo 1.2 Harmattan" Jun 26 16:46:20 Ok, so it is a Maemo! Jun 26 16:46:22 andre__: hah, subconscious! Jun 26 16:46:26 Hehehe Jun 26 16:46:27 :-D Jun 26 16:46:40 Discussing it is just useless Jun 26 16:46:43 leads to nothing and changes nothing Jun 26 16:46:56 andre: No, really, marketing department's illusions aside,it is a freaking maemo Jun 26 16:47:02 RST38h, shrug Jun 26 16:47:20 infrastructure is not there in bugs.maemo.org and there are no plans to Jun 26 16:47:55 plus no Nokian will care anyway about Harmattan SDK bug reports in bugs.maemo.org Jun 26 16:47:55 MohammadAG: do you have the code for that "stacking Qt windows" around? Jun 26 16:48:13 javispedro, MTF? nope Jun 26 16:48:30 but if I had a window with stacking support, I can get the atom Jun 26 16:48:57 MohammadAG: but what is your app doing at the moment? Jun 26 16:49:02 opening a new raw QWindow? Jun 26 16:49:08 or QWidget Jun 26 16:49:11 QMainWnidow, yes Jun 26 16:49:51 so you eventually end up with two main level windows Jun 26 16:52:17 javispedro, main level? no, one's a child window Jun 26 16:52:26 QMainWindow = GtkWindow equiv Jun 26 16:53:34 DocScrutinizer: crumble in fear!! http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide/Aegis_manifest_file_generation_tool Jun 26 16:54:54 ok, that is scaring. Jun 26 16:54:56 very scary. Jun 26 16:55:04 static analysis of binaries Jun 26 16:55:05 I've seen quite a few of those pages, that's where my concerns got stirred up Jun 26 16:56:38 I'll be a pleasure to me to build a backdoor into each and every binary I produce, in a way no static analysis and no human experts review will find it Jun 26 16:58:16 finally all the oops_off-by-one double-tricky cases of the past come to a new good purpose finally Jun 26 16:59:35 WTF. Jun 26 16:59:38 It depends. Jun 26 16:59:49 wtf is wrong with this guy http://talk.maemo.org/search.php?searchid=10574102 Jun 26 16:59:54 If the security framework is used well - it's a plus. Jun 26 16:59:56 locked mode = no sftp Jun 26 17:00:02 no ssh at all Jun 26 17:00:14 if you manage to sneak a binary at all, kernel will refuse to run it Jun 26 17:00:31 For example - if all apps are required to say why they use each device on the app page. Jun 26 17:00:51 So you can't have an app hitting the net if it hasn't said it will. Jun 26 17:01:13 SpeedEvil: we could have the same level of trustworthiness with code review of opensource programs Jun 26 17:01:14 And if the approval process is done right Jun 26 17:01:23 it works for linux distros Jun 26 17:01:24 yes. Jun 26 17:01:28 kerio: Or does it. Jun 26 17:01:32 See openssh Jun 26 17:02:00 yeah but that wasn't malicious intent Jun 26 17:02:12 Wasn't it? Jun 26 17:02:14 I really don't get the point of aegis on what for all intents and purposes seems to be DoA OS/Device Jun 26 17:02:41 SpeedEvil: are you saying that openssh devs knowingly put security vulnerabilities in openssh? Jun 26 17:03:38 javispedro: didn't you say you want to wait and see what it's like when it gets used, OWTTE? Jun 26 17:03:42 anything "trusted computing" platforms do can be done by the user Jun 26 17:04:36 DocScrutinizer: you are completely right in that aegis seems to be fully armed and operational Jun 26 17:04:48 toldya Jun 26 17:05:01 and it's right from 7th hell Jun 26 17:05:03 puts the webos jails to shame Jun 26 17:06:37 kerio: except deprive user from ruling his own device, that's a unique feature of security framework Jun 26 17:07:12 Depending on what controls the user has over it. Jun 26 17:07:40 My thinkpad has a similar device, and kernel features. Jun 26 17:07:41 user has NO control Jun 26 17:07:48 i thought that was the point Jun 26 17:08:52 all control you grant to user, you as well grant to 'malware' in the sense of those who want their content or IP protected Jun 26 17:08:53 It deends on the policies - which I don't think have been revealed yet. Jun 26 17:08:57 I agree it could be very bad. Jun 26 17:09:10 and it can change any day Jun 26 17:09:38 and there's just so much you can do about it Jun 26 17:09:51 take it or leave it Jun 26 17:10:03 buy sth else Jun 26 17:10:30 Biggie I guess is can you replace the kernel. Jun 26 17:11:06 you definitely can replace the kernel, and run in permanent devel-mode Jun 26 17:11:20 And what is the policy towards users with secure mode on running user apps. Jun 26 17:11:21 I thought the main idea is that you could have drm enabled or disabled... atleast that's what I recall from a while ago Jun 26 17:11:39 Depends on what's allowed in disabled mode. Jun 26 17:11:50 For example - is the graphics driver blob. Jun 26 17:11:53 with any drm content of course being disabled when drm mode disabled Jun 26 17:12:00 To take an extreme example. Jun 26 17:12:15 yes, you have two devices: one with DRM and all the nice apps, and one where you can do what you want, but not *with* what you want Jun 26 17:12:24 ruskie: aegis seems to do way more, it even handles access control to location, cellular services, ... Jun 26 17:12:34 DocScrutinizer: fuck everything about that Jun 26 17:12:57 heck, with aegis on, an application cannot even kill() Jun 26 17:14:21 Noooooooooooooooooo Jun 26 17:14:26 If you look at the n9 as a mass market device - the security model of the n900 was very questionable. Jun 26 17:14:36 it seems you slowly gradually understand my concerns Jun 26 17:14:47 Doc: Given that prospects of having nice apps are pretty thin, you still have one device Jun 26 17:14:49 SpeedEvil: fuck everything about that too Jun 26 17:15:00 Doc: And whatever lawyers advised Nokia during development process have another Jun 26 17:15:10 In principle, the security framework could make the device almost a different device to the user. Jun 26 17:15:26 So a dev device and a user device would have a totally disparate set of software. Jun 26 17:15:39 Speed: Yes. For example, the security framework could run an embedded copyof Android and only run safe android apps inside that copy Jun 26 17:15:42 Consider the best 'worst case'. Jun 26 17:15:47 Speed: Would that be useful?:) Jun 26 17:15:47 RST38h: lmao Jun 26 17:16:01 We have a documented platform with drivers, on which we can run meego-ce Jun 26 17:16:08 SpeedEvil: if that's the best wors case..... can't envision the worst =) Jun 26 17:16:09 BTW, Microsoft is doing something similar onthe desktop, with the SoftGrid crap. Jun 26 17:16:33 They ship laptops with a cut down "demo" version of the Office running inside the SoftGrid Jun 26 17:16:51 Pain in the ass to remove, as it does not have uninstall option and takes lots of disk space Jun 26 17:17:20 Speed: You can run Meego on a Samsung Tab afaik (check with lardman) Jun 26 17:17:37 Speed: No need for Nokia hw to run Meego any more. Jun 26 17:17:46 RST38h: Indeed. Jun 26 17:17:57 RST38h: It depends on the features and the price of the device at the time. Jun 26 17:18:35 In fact, I suspect that every true-Meego-fanatic should start getting used to the thought that his hw will not be made by Nokia. Right about now. Jun 26 17:18:48 Indeed. Jun 26 17:19:08 And look for some widely available ARM-based hw platform to move development to (HTC? Samsung?) Jun 26 17:19:25 If you remember - similar noises were made about n900 security - which never really happend Jun 26 17:20:25 But that was before Maemo devices hired that girl from Nokia Research Jun 26 17:20:50 And before she delivered the first talk on Aegis and got heckled by AMS conference attendees Jun 26 17:21:06 now who's going to c&p all that over to #meego-arm? it's unfair we keep all the fun for us, we should share as there are quite a number of aegis/MSSF fans and even contributors over there ;-P Jun 26 17:21:17 meego-arm probably doesn't give a shit Jun 26 17:21:35 yeah, aegis is nokia's Jun 26 17:21:57 I think someone needs to make a summary of their findings in a blog post or something. Jun 26 17:22:06 if you manage to sneak a binary at all, kernel will refuse to run it Jun 26 17:22:11 reminds me of Symbian Jun 26 17:22:21 I'll write this up on a wikipage tomorrow Jun 26 17:22:25 aegis is MSSF, and MSSF is planned for /already in meego-proper as well Jun 26 17:22:28 afaik Jun 26 17:22:30 And the symbian security model really killed all third party apps :P Jun 26 17:22:56 in fact, if you are looking at the official Harmattan, look no further than aegis. Aegis defines which functions you might call if you have "GPS" token, etc. Jun 26 17:23:00 ShadowJK: Not specifically the model Jun 26 17:23:04 *official Harmattan API Jun 26 17:23:17 ShadowJK: But the signing policy that was design to create income for Symbian FOunsation Jun 26 17:23:22 designed Jun 26 17:23:50 RST38h, well that you had to send your binaries to this website that had their webform hardwired to a printer in a corner in an office and you just had to wait for someone to notice the printout and sign your binary before you could run it... Jun 26 17:23:51 wow, I bitched 6 months and nobody ever listened. I have to rethink a few things... Jun 26 17:23:58 ShadowJK: Some managerial idiot though it would be "a good thing" and did not consider what it would do to the ecosystem Jun 26 17:24:19 ShadowJK: Do not forget, it was like $80 per one binary signed. And three weeks. Jun 26 17:24:41 ShadowJK: In other words, a clusterfuck Jun 26 17:25:00 I think a forum thread or wikipage wont get nearly the attention this deserves Jun 26 17:25:09 Even after they lowered the signing price for $25/binary and established some never-working procedure for signing OSS binaries Jun 26 17:25:27 Yeah the webform hardwired to printer in some office corner was the OSS signing Jun 26 17:25:34 Anyways, TTG Jun 26 17:26:04 iirc there was ONE successful piece of oss software for symbian, and they had to hold fund raising drives to be able to afford listing in Ovi Store :P Jun 26 17:27:19 I wonder how long until there's an aegis-limp project that will just allow all... Jun 26 17:29:30 http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan%3APlatform_Guide Jun 26 17:29:34 this is where most info is Jun 26 17:30:13 for example, I finally found how iphone-style uninstalling works Jun 26 17:30:25 there's this new field in debian control file MeeGo-Desktop-Entry-Filename: /usr/share/meegotouch/applicationextensions/calc.desktop Jun 26 17:31:24 and installer app (nonfree?) creates a temp .desktop file for it while installing even Jun 26 17:33:30 X-Fade, ping? Jun 26 17:34:56 What is iphone-style uninstalling? Jun 26 17:35:45 Tap'n'hold on home screen Jun 26 17:35:56 Tap red x on icons to remove. Jun 26 17:36:05 so similar to symbian stuff Jun 26 17:36:21 select app -> hit C -> do you wish to remove Jun 26 17:36:44 ShadowJK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG6-TrPkT0w Jun 26 17:36:48 Heh, all the symbian stuff I've used had "App manager", you selected the software, it said "Unknown error", and then you selected uninstall, and it showed a progress bar, and then said "Out of memory" Jun 26 17:37:26 ShadowJK, that was also an option Jun 26 17:37:39 but selecting an app ani hitting C tended to work as well Jun 26 17:40:33 I accidentally hit C sometimes and assumed it'd only remove the icon Jun 26 17:41:14 shamus: lol Jun 26 17:41:16 er.. Jun 26 17:41:22 s/shamus/ShadowJk Jun 26 17:41:30 honestly guys, all this aegis stuff is not fresh shit really, it's all been around since a decade or so, and no suddenly everybody gets upset, while all laughed at me when I was rising same concerns just a week ago? How's that?? Jun 26 17:41:42 javispedro, that's retarded and not backwards compatible Jun 26 17:41:43 it should just use the package file list Jun 26 17:41:54 javispedro, in theory, can't aegis be circumvented? Jun 26 17:42:13 depends on what you want to circumvent Jun 26 17:42:37 DocScrutinizer, originally Nokia said you could run without the DRM stuff and you'd only lose the ability to install a few pieces of software, and DRM'd movies and DRM'd music? Jun 26 17:42:55 in theory, if an application stores some crap in the bb5, and you want to get it in open mode, you can't. Jun 26 17:43:18 ah, that too :-) Jun 26 17:43:25 all lies, I told ya. The concept has a number of immanent requirements if you want any part of it Jun 26 17:44:33 worst of all is the lack od information Jun 26 17:44:51 are there any devs with a N9(50) unit in the wild? Jun 26 17:44:56 hmmmm, sorry when I failed on that Jun 26 17:45:02 I mean already at this point Jun 26 17:48:50 hmm fun... can't use a N95 radio in offline mode as well... gah... Jun 26 17:49:02 offline mode on symbian is retarded Jun 26 17:49:06 yeah Jun 26 17:49:08 joppu, not anyone here afaik Jun 26 17:49:13 everything basically broken Jun 26 17:50:01 it got better in FP2 Jun 26 17:50:26 "Device is in offline mode, continue doing soemthing?" Jun 26 17:50:46 only allows that with wifi Jun 26 17:50:57 gps doesn't function, radio won't even launch Jun 26 17:51:14 how do I force a resync of the clock on the n900? "Update automatically" hasn't been working for hours now. Jun 26 17:51:21 In any case, whining on forums, irc and wiki isn't going to be seen by anyone... Jun 26 17:51:38 I'm just working on a Fremantle icon theme for Harmattan ;) Jun 26 17:51:50 Someone needs to document findings in a readable form, with sentences, punctuation and paragraphs :P Jun 26 17:55:01 ShadowJK: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Platform_Guide/Harmattan_platform_and_Platform_SDK_overview/Security_domain_overview Jun 26 18:00:31 Hey all - where does the libflashplayer.so reside on the n900? Jun 26 18:06:46 finally solved all issuses and now it works Jun 26 18:06:49 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74030 Jun 26 18:07:07 soon to send it to extras-devel Jun 26 18:07:13 so much joy Jun 26 18:11:03 Jef91: /usr/lib/browser/plugins/libflashplayer.so Jun 26 18:13:53 hi all Jun 26 18:14:04 got a weird problem with wifi on nokia n900 Jun 26 18:14:12 wifi connection seems to time out Jun 26 18:14:24 if i use something like irssi, it doesn't time out Jun 26 18:14:29 if i stay connected to something Jun 26 18:14:40 but this doesn't happen with other connections Jun 26 18:15:12 it connects and works fine, for a short period of time Jun 26 18:15:16 then times out or something Jun 26 18:15:47 yet with irssi open it stayed connected all night Jun 26 18:15:58 c2pLaY: I had similar issues Jun 26 18:16:02 really? Jun 26 18:16:05 only happened with one ap at home Jun 26 18:16:08 wireless N problem? Jun 26 18:16:13 yeah same here Jun 26 18:16:22 I solved it by disabling the powersaving for the connection Jun 26 18:16:29 really Jun 26 18:16:32 hmm Jun 26 18:16:37 it drains battery really fast Jun 26 18:16:41 but i will test Jun 26 18:16:42 but that drains the battery really fast 3 hrs connected max Jun 26 18:16:51 thnx Jun 26 18:17:00 i will check back Jun 26 18:17:13 i swear i already tried that Jun 26 18:17:19 but i am going to again Jun 26 18:17:53 i also had a problem with the desktop crashing all the time Jun 26 18:18:02 but i figured it out by pure luck Jun 26 18:18:14 it was the wallpaper Jun 26 18:18:22 the galaxy universe one Jun 26 18:18:25 can't remember the name Jun 26 18:18:37 but i turned that off and no more hildon crashe Jun 26 18:19:10 is there some trick to getting maemo5 widgets visible in the qtdesigner? Jun 26 18:21:19 hey merlin1991, were you able to find any relevant posts about this issue on a forum or something? Jun 26 18:21:26 Gtk ones? Jun 26 18:21:34 i haven't been able to find anything :( Jun 26 18:21:44 c2pLaY: on the maemo bug tracker there is some stuff Jun 26 18:22:31 taking a lookc Jun 26 18:24:40 MohammadAG, sorry... no qt widgets Jun 26 18:25:15 for example, picklistselector Jun 26 18:25:23 doesnt show up in the designer Jun 26 18:27:11 ohmy, so many stuff in harmattan. Jun 26 18:29:52 *things Jun 26 18:31:38 or is it better to make the UI dynamically in code? Jun 26 18:37:47 MohammadAG, what's picklistselector? Jun 26 18:38:04 anyway, you can make a desktop widget with designer Jun 26 18:38:41 see facebrick/sticky notes/cardioalert etc Jun 26 18:43:34 MohammadAG: speaking to yourself? Jun 26 18:45:58 err, MoonTiger Jun 26 18:45:58 not looking at my screen while typing :P Jun 26 18:46:46 MohammadAG, sorry ... its a listpickselector ... it doesnt appear in the designer widget toolbox Jun 26 18:47:12 so i wondered if they are created in code in the constructor of the dialog Jun 26 18:54:06 ~ping Jun 26 18:54:07 ~pong Jun 26 18:56:44 MoonTiger, I'm assuming you meant QMaemo5ListPickSelector? Jun 26 18:56:52 MohammadAG, yes Jun 26 18:57:10 and any of the other maemo5 specific widgets Jun 26 18:59:41 you can't get them in designer Jun 26 19:00:23 MohammadAG, ok i was beginning to figure that ... so i can add the layout in the designer but then dynamically create the widgets at runtime and add them t the layout? Jun 26 19:01:04 one (possibly) dumb question related to that ... do i have to free the widgets i create in the destructor? or is that handled automatically? Jun 26 19:03:19 MoonTiger: as long as you supply the "parent" parameter when you create widgets, they are freed automatically. Jun 26 19:03:53 wow thanks for that ... important to know :) and thnx MohammadAG for the help ... much appreciated Jun 26 19:04:07 MoonTiger, you can create a QWidget and shove the new widget in that :) Jun 26 19:04:19 and yw, but I'm lagging Jun 26 19:05:08 it seems just as easy to create them in the constructor ... they arent that complex Jun 26 19:05:34 alterego, any ideas how to make a scrolling QLabel? Jun 26 19:05:52 You mean like a marquee? Jun 26 19:07:41 alterego, yes Jun 26 19:08:22 hi and good eve Jun 26 19:08:42 alterego, but only if the text doesn't fit Jun 26 19:09:09 MohammadAG, surely you would have to subclass the label control no? Jun 26 19:09:40 any idea what sgx_misr is? its some process running and jumping up to the top3 cpu suckers on my n900 Jun 26 19:09:58 it's your SGX going nuts Jun 26 19:10:09 I doubt you can use your N900 when that happens, a reboot should fix it Jun 26 19:10:17 whats sgx then? Jun 26 19:10:18 MoonTiger, no, doubt it Jun 26 19:10:30 PowerVR SGX, the graphics chip Jun 26 19:10:32 the 3D engine Jun 26 19:10:40 I'm using it now but its lagging like crazy Jun 26 19:10:42 aha Jun 26 19:10:49 i'll reboot then Jun 26 19:12:26 stick off Jun 26 19:14:19 I hate how there isn't a window title in Harmattan Jun 26 19:14:49 is that because of the new ui "window" model? Jun 26 19:15:03 it's just not displayed anywhere Jun 26 19:15:43 It's gonna take getting used to Jun 26 19:15:48 I dislike big UI changes. Jun 26 19:15:54 it's not the UI change Jun 26 19:16:02 it's the fact that the window manager is missing lots of window stuff Jun 26 19:16:12 window title, close Jun 26 19:16:31 much better :) why would sgx go nuts? Jun 26 19:16:39 I don't think it'll matter, as long as the apps are fairly easy to tell the difference between them. Jun 26 19:16:42 too much on the desktop? Jun 26 19:16:46 no one knows, not even Nokians Jun 26 19:16:50 oh Jun 26 19:17:05 hardcoded stuff? Jun 26 19:17:13 arvut: it's closed source and nobody sane would even want to read the source code further than necessary Jun 26 19:17:25 oh Jun 26 19:17:52 is it an essential part or can it be replaced? Jun 26 19:18:22 if you can live with a super-slow UI and no 3D acceleration... Jun 26 19:18:32 aha Jun 26 19:19:08 alterego, true, but if the app shows something in the title? Jun 26 19:19:26 window stick off Jun 26 19:19:28 Sociality shows the profile's name in the title Jun 26 19:20:06 is that a bot? Jun 26 19:20:15 * dm8tbr wonders that too Jun 26 19:22:11 Erm .. Jun 26 19:22:26 Why wouldn't you know your profile? :P Jun 26 19:24:24 oh well, /me starts rewriting Sociality in QML Jun 26 19:25:29 alterego, is there a way to call methods from C++ in QML without signals/slots? Jun 26 19:25:57 alterego, suppose I open YOUR profile, it'd say Tom in the title Jun 26 19:34:49 mghm: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4UX8HByEvjk/TgeFKqoyPBI/AAAAAAAADyM/OtwYJ3Ab3FI/s1600/hipster_jesus.jpg Jun 26 19:38:26 whats icd2? running from /usr/sbin Jun 26 19:40:17 Internet Connection Daemon Jun 26 19:40:28 or Connectivity, not that it matters Jun 26 19:40:42 aha :) Jun 26 19:40:53 can I use it in the terminal? Jun 26 19:41:24 I've been curious on how to connect to an AP thru the term Jun 26 19:42:29 it's a daemon, so nope Jun 26 19:42:45 you can use DBus to talk to it Jun 26 19:44:15 aha Jun 26 19:44:37 gotta learn dbus then. could be useful Jun 26 19:44:46 thru shellscripting? Jun 26 19:45:00 http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control might be useful Jun 26 19:45:19 cool =) ty Jun 26 19:45:40 err, icd2 is open source o_O Jun 26 19:47:03 so I could try to read the code and understand it then :P Jun 26 19:47:15 c or c++? Jun 26 19:47:41 someone's confused Jun 26 19:47:51 from that page, (1)Get the source code of icd2 Jun 26 19:48:02 E: Unable to find a source package for icd2 <-- doesn't seem to be open Jun 26 19:49:10 oh :/ Jun 26 19:49:31 interesting page tho Jun 26 20:00:13 what? ...is open? Jun 26 20:03:19 alterego, can two N900s sync contacts? Jun 26 20:05:15 I was able to sync with the N95 that I had efore, so I'd guess they can Jun 26 20:06:42 Choom, Transfer utility shows the N8, not the N900 Jun 26 20:09:46 MohammadAG: don't think so, there's no bluetooth pc suite mode on the N900 Jun 26 20:21:38 is bluetooth faster than usb2.0? Jun 26 20:21:46 No. Jun 26 20:21:51 (IMO) Jun 26 20:22:06 well, technically I mean Jun 26 20:23:23 http://www.palowireless.com/infotooth/knowbase/general/9.asp Jun 26 20:23:51 USB2.0: Added higher maximum bandwidth of 480 Mbit/s (60 MB/s) Jun 26 20:26:45 yeah and if I understand that table correct then there are different data transfer rates for bt? Jun 26 20:27:21 As you can see. Jun 26 20:27:39 when was the last N900 firmware update (Maemo 5)? Jun 26 20:27:48 max 723.2kb/s Jun 26 20:28:04 october 2010? Jun 26 20:30:43 MohammadAG, you've been asking for more screenshots :) http://imgur.com/a/vCbZw#6RjuA Jun 26 20:32:02 BTW, is word 'recognize' is correct for this? Or better use 'identify'? Jun 26 20:34:35 divan: recognise Jun 26 20:35:01 divan: recognize is spelling americunts use Jun 26 20:35:51 (the only correct spelling) Jun 26 20:35:51 jacekowski, oops sorry. Thanks. Jun 26 20:37:12 american spelling should be normative, british spelling is so full onf nonsense Jun 26 20:37:45 Hmm google duel 'recognise' vs 'recognize' gives 37 000 000 vs 178 000 000 Jun 26 20:37:53 divan, Identify, since that's the API says Jun 26 20:38:19 divan, rm -rf en_GB Jun 26 20:38:28 lol Jun 26 20:38:44 It's senseless shit Jun 26 20:38:57 Their empire is crumbled. Jun 26 20:39:02 google duel "identify music" vs "recognize music" gives 147 000 vs 56 000 Jun 26 20:39:08 :) Jun 26 20:39:12 MohammadAG, agree Jun 26 20:40:04 someone needs to do a edition of Homefront where the invaders are the British Jun 26 20:40:29 korean invaders are so passé these days Jun 26 20:41:24 About 14,900,000 results (0.13 seconds) Jun 26 20:41:27 for recognise music Jun 26 20:41:35 with only correct spelling Jun 26 20:41:40 jacekowski, use quotes Jun 26 20:42:06 23 000 for "recognise music" Jun 26 20:42:25 divan: and think that england is 10x smaller than usa Jun 26 20:42:40 javispedro: homefront was stupid, a really really bad engine Jun 26 20:42:43 jacekowski, I'm on your side )) Jun 26 20:46:33 I'm able to sync my two N900's via bluetooth... Jun 26 20:48:00 can anyone test my app? Jun 26 20:48:09 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74030 Jun 26 20:50:36 is there an alternative recommended app installer, besides the default? Jun 26 20:50:54 FAP Jun 26 20:50:57 Atarii, faster application manager Jun 26 20:51:03 * merlin1991 just reflashed the n900 after a failed attempt @ building an uboot package Jun 26 20:51:08 and apt-get of course Jun 26 20:51:16 lolFAP ok thanks i'll install Jun 26 20:51:19 FAM* Jun 26 20:51:36 user0-: actually the official abbrevation is FAPMAN ;) Jun 26 20:52:27 * divan always wondered why default app manager uses apt-worker which run in background. Jun 26 20:52:48 still getting used to this keyboard Jun 26 20:53:33 and yes install fam the default ones too slow Jun 26 20:54:12 regardless of the poor gui Jun 26 20:54:33 feels good running xchat on such a device Jun 26 20:56:47 :) Jun 26 20:59:37 got axel working a few minutes ago Jun 26 21:00:07 gona use some zenity script to make things easier Jun 26 21:00:35 but arent there any download managers for maemo Jun 26 21:00:38 user0-, double axel or triple axel? ) Jun 26 21:01:36 huh? Jun 26 21:02:04 they app thats like wget but uses more than one connection Jun 26 21:02:11 the* Jun 26 21:04:35 user0-, yes, I know ) axel is also the jump in figure skating. the hardest one. Jun 26 21:09:29 fetching data package info is just taking too long Jun 26 21:10:52 * user0- is expecting one fucking long list Jun 26 21:13:56 time to dream Jun 26 21:16:40 are joins and quits autoexcluded in this channel btw? Jun 26 21:17:23 arvut: it's a client setting .. Jun 26 21:17:34 don't think I've added a rule for that for this channel Jun 26 21:17:43 might have to check then Jun 26 21:18:17 Well, I see them Jun 26 21:18:19 alterego, any problems with wifi in the latest meego version? Jun 26 21:18:23 So it must be :P Jun 26 21:18:35 MohammadAG: I've never witnessed an issue with wifi Jun 26 21:19:03 But some people seem to, I think it's a combination of buggy driver and certain routers. Jun 26 21:20:30 * MohammadAG kills dhcp Jun 26 21:20:44 O.o Jun 26 21:20:57 why would you kill dhcp? Jun 26 21:21:38 alterego, I noticed you can strobe the flash in the camera app, I'm guessing there are no checks? Jun 26 21:21:57 arvut, why not, manual IP assigning ftw Jun 26 21:22:09 oh ic :) Jun 26 21:22:48 MohammadAG: I think the firmware takes care of that. Jun 26 21:22:57 It wont fire more than it can handle. Jun 26 21:23:03 I'd have to check though Jun 26 21:26:18 MohammadAG: It depends. Jun 26 21:26:29 MohammadAG: It will not strobe more than 500ms. But. Jun 26 21:26:49 MohammadAG: There are no restrictions in the driver from it strobing 500ms spaced 10ms apart. Jun 26 21:26:55 Don't do that, it will fry stuff. Jun 26 21:28:36 alterego, ^ Jun 26 21:28:54 Fair nuff Jun 26 21:28:58 SpeedEvil, I just tried it three times, was sure MeeGo didn't implement checks :p Jun 26 21:29:13 SpeedEvil, FYI, the strobing is flashlight mode Jun 26 21:29:20 the low power kind, not the full burst Jun 26 21:29:56 ah - then that's fine Jun 26 21:30:01 it can go forever Jun 26 21:30:15 Well, not forever ;) Jun 26 21:30:18 I've had it running for several hours to drain the battery as a calibrated load Jun 26 21:30:27 Heh Jun 26 21:30:32 And stuck a luxmeter on it at the beginning and end Jun 26 21:30:34 same Jun 26 21:34:30 alterego, now I'm getting wifi is not available on the device :P Jun 26 21:35:39 Heh Jun 26 21:36:14 I am suprised the wifi is still so crap for people, networking is the most fundamental part of an OS imo :/ Jun 26 21:36:46 alterego, it always worked before :P Jun 26 21:36:52 alterego: in meego or maemo? Jun 26 21:37:00 arvut: meego Jun 26 21:38:06 ah.. well it sucked in maemo (massive powerdrain) until the october firmware last year Jun 26 21:38:27 now I think its fairly awesome Jun 26 21:39:17 Well, I'd like to think we have better, newer drivers in MeeGo ;) Jun 26 21:39:59 the current ones seems to be good enough. what we need are better batteries :P Jun 26 21:41:23 There are 1600mAh batteries on ebay Jun 26 21:41:55 same size Jun 26 21:41:56 ? Jun 26 21:42:24 reboot fixed it, yay Jun 26 21:42:47 I bought an extended battery from mugen-power, 2400mAh. awesome but big and heavy Jun 26 21:43:29 MohammadAG: fixed what? reboots seems to do the job for everyone lately :P Jun 26 21:45:25 wifi not being available Jun 26 21:45:41 ahh Jun 26 21:48:31 arvut does the bigger battery mean the back doesn't fit on? Jun 26 21:49:11 Atarii: you get a new one with it, got a hole but no lid for the camera. Jun 26 21:49:31 and ofcourse a switch to turn cam on/off Jun 26 21:50:09 ah ok Jun 26 21:50:16 got any pics/link? Jun 26 21:50:31 was just looking into a spare battery + external charger Jun 26 21:50:33 good to have with ya, I use the original mostly but when I need more stable powersource I'll switch to the bigger one. Jun 26 21:51:22 Atarii: google mugen power n900, hard to miss ;) Jun 26 21:51:36 ok thanks Jun 26 21:51:50 yw Jun 26 21:54:25 ah I see, think I'll stick with something smaller Jun 26 21:54:35 although, do younotice a lot of difference? Jun 26 21:55:59 yeah, its not even twice as big but I get almost 3 times longer wifitime with it Jun 26 21:56:16 wow that is quite significant Jun 26 21:56:23 decisions, decisions! Jun 26 21:57:34 yeah, like I said: good to have with you but I use the original one mostly. other one is just a backup or for heavy stuff Jun 26 21:58:36 not too expensive either way. but that 1600mAh SpeedEvil spoke of sounds interesting tho Jun 26 21:58:48 might just get a couple of standard ones, pretty cheap on ebay Jun 26 21:59:54 There is a list on the wiki somewhere with tested results. Jun 26 22:00:55 lcuk: congratulations! Jun 26 22:01:31 Oh - indeed ! Jun 26 22:01:40 thanks SpeedEvil Jun 26 22:01:40 SpeedEvil: do you know if that 1600 one is the same size/fits inside the original backcover? Jun 26 22:02:01 yes Jun 26 22:28:41 MohammadAG: just wanted to say a personal thank you on your work on the lock-screen btw :) looks awesome and the sliding mechanism looks so much smoother than on the original lockscreen :) Jun 26 22:32:39 mikki-kun, you're welcome :D Jun 26 22:32:47 it also works on MeeGo as of 5 minutes ago Jun 26 22:34:31 MohammadAG: well, i am not into meego :) i will stick to maemo, didn Jun 26 22:34:45 didn't see so far what makes it better than maemo :) Jun 26 22:34:54 it's open, that's all Jun 26 22:35:21 does it have openssh-server/client? :) Jun 26 22:35:34 from first boot Jun 26 22:35:48 ok, then i might actually give it a shot soon :) Jun 26 22:36:01 time to test Sociality on it Jun 26 22:36:14 socialty is a social network app? Jun 26 22:36:34 facebook Jun 26 22:36:43 ewww, the worst of them all x) Jun 26 22:41:00 MohammadAG: will you also make some sort of gui-app for the lockscreen maybe so we could throw stuff into different regions we want? :) Jun 26 22:44:54 hi again, whats skyhost? Jun 26 22:45:22 i think it has something to do with skype Jun 26 22:45:47 or maybe gps Jun 26 22:45:53 oh yeah, that might make sense Jun 26 22:46:11 sky as in short for skype :) Jun 26 22:46:47 so whats this new lockscreen app you've been chattin about? Jun 26 22:47:13 something to replace the slider with the clock next to it? Jun 26 22:47:20 arvut: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1655 <--- seems skype :) Jun 26 22:47:22 04Bug 1655: skyhost hogging cpu after closing skype Jun 26 22:47:36 povbot: O.o Jun 26 22:47:37 arvut: Error: "O.o" is not a valid command. Jun 26 22:47:43 haha Jun 26 22:47:45 ROFL XD Jun 26 22:47:53 I'm tired x) Jun 26 22:47:59 me as well ^^ Jun 26 22:48:16 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1039475 <--- that's the lockscreen :) Jun 26 22:48:24 eyeballing povbot not valid =P Jun 26 22:50:59 I need to update the screenshot Jun 26 22:51:00 http://i52.tinypic.com/2090uf7.jpg Jun 26 22:53:32 MohammadAG: neat stuff ;) Jun 26 22:54:04 gonna install it tomorrow. now, sleeph! Jun 26 22:54:21 so, nn, going astray again Jun 26 22:54:21 MohammadAG: maybe you could introduce a switch for the media player for people who don't use the n900 to play music like me :) ohhh and one "bug" i found was in regards of the language 0.1 had... it didn't look up the language i am using, but the localtion i am living in, so when i told my n900 "use thai localization, but english as language" it would show up thai-numbers/letters Jun 26 22:54:58 mikki-kun, Qt bug sadly Jun 26 22:55:00 haha Jun 26 22:55:05 especially annoying due to nokia eff'ing up the swiss localization which they blantly put as "ch_fr" which is _WRONG_! not all swiss people speak french -.- Jun 26 22:55:35 I'm simply passing the format to display date, it gets the localization itself Jun 26 22:56:39 just wanted to mention it :) maybe you could introduce a small settings dialog for that option in the future for people who want to tell their devices where they are at, but want to use a different language while operating it Jun 26 23:13:01 hi Jun 26 23:13:11 hi Jun 26 23:13:28 got a question: i wanted to do apt-get dist-upgrade to get PR 1.3 Jun 26 23:13:39 but it wants debianutils Jun 26 23:14:16 which in turn seems to have some deps so it wants to remove just about all apps I installed Jun 26 23:14:23 any ideas why? Jun 26 23:15:46 do not use apt-get dist-upgrade to get PR1.3, use application manager Jun 26 23:16:07 (though it will probably also fail) Jun 26 23:21:19 it does not show it Jun 26 23:21:58 i get the fealing that i got it already and that phone info shows wrong version Jun 26 23:22:29 since the last update i did sorta manually :) Jun 26 23:23:33 LordVan: what version is your mp-fremantle-generic-pr Jun 26 23:26:42 lol not installed status 'pn' Jun 26 23:27:09 wth.. Jun 26 23:27:23 should I ust install that? Jun 26 23:27:35 i think i might have accidentally removed it ;) Jun 26 23:28:27 mp-fremantle-generic-pr is the metapackge that holds all system software (pr version) Jun 26 23:28:52 k so I should reinstall it right? Jun 26 23:30:30 unless you installed cssu Jun 26 23:30:59 not yet was going to, but not sure if i got pr1.3 and the faq says i need it Jun 26 23:31:26 ugh Jun 26 23:31:33 my damn usb port fell off Jun 26 23:31:41 inside my n900!! Jun 26 23:31:47 is that fixable??? Jun 26 23:32:11 Macer: right now?? Jun 26 23:32:18 earlier Jun 26 23:32:20 there are several threads on TMO Macer Jun 26 23:32:31 one is sticky in N900 section Jun 26 23:32:34 check it out Jun 26 23:32:37 trx: simple solder? Jun 26 23:32:39 ok Jun 26 23:32:44 if possible Jun 26 23:32:45 Macer: It depends - the general answer is probably not easy. Jun 26 23:32:47 i will take a look Jun 26 23:32:50 depends on damage Jun 26 23:33:03 The pads can be ripped off in some cases, which makes the repair annoying Jun 26 23:33:13 can a charging pad charge it? Jun 26 23:33:20 huh? Jun 26 23:33:37 a charging pad to give the battery power Jun 26 23:33:41 no. Jun 26 23:33:56 hmm unmet deps: Jun 26 23:33:58 he following packages have unmet dependencies: Jun 26 23:34:01 damn Jun 26 23:34:03 There are a variety of 'emergency' battery chargers, and I think an actual nokia one Jun 26 23:34:15 isnt worth it Jun 26 23:34:24 mp-fremantle-generic-pr: Depends: libsndfile1 (= 1.0.20-0maemo1+0m5) but 1.0.20-0maemo1+ogg is to be installed Jun 26 23:34:26 i would have gotten the pad if it worked Jun 26 23:34:45 http://www.bestofferbuy.com/Battery-AC-Wall-USB-Port-Charger-for-Nokia-BL-5J-BL5J-p-56088.html?currency=GBP&utm_source=gbase&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=gbase_uk Jun 26 23:34:46 Depends: libsdl-mixer1.2 (= 1:1.2.6-5+0m5) Jun 26 23:34:51 but to buy a battery charger for a phone that may not work Jun 26 23:35:15 i need to repair it Jun 26 23:35:24 it seems to have come clean off Jun 26 23:35:27 should i uninstall ogg support? Jun 26 23:35:39 Macer: Do you have the USB port? Jun 26 23:35:46 yes Jun 26 23:35:58 Macer: If so, can you take a high resolution image of your bottom. Jun 26 23:36:08 of the usb port? Jun 26 23:36:09 Err - your USB port bottom where it attaches to the PCB Jun 26 23:36:20 Sorry - mostly asleep. Jun 26 23:36:20 if i can get it out Jun 26 23:36:23 sure Jun 26 23:36:23 LordVan: ogg support souldn't conflict with the mp Jun 26 23:36:32 I suggest a reflash Jun 26 23:36:43 If it's not off, take the battery out! Jun 26 23:37:25 it is off Jun 26 23:37:29 battery died Jun 26 23:37:37 i don't really want to reflash if possible though. Jun 26 23:37:44 when i tried to charge it Jun 26 23:38:05 Hi! is there a way to filter sms before the notifications and the insertion into the database? Jun 26 23:38:20 although I think it might be better since I do have some other issues (like having to manually start pulse after reboot sometimes:)) Jun 26 23:39:09 Macer: you're trying to work out if the tracks on the PCB have been ripped off, or if the solder joint has failed. If the solder joint has failed, repair is fairlyeasy Jun 26 23:42:01 ok Jun 26 23:42:20 where can i upload this? :) Jun 26 23:42:23 merlin1991: reflash leaves /home untouched right? Jun 26 23:42:41 yes Jun 26 23:43:24 well i still make a backup anyway. ;) I have to still use M$ windoze for flashing do I? Jun 26 23:43:42 LordVan: you can flash from windows and linux Jun 26 23:43:58 ~flashing Jun 26 23:43:58 i guess flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jun 26 23:44:10 nice ;) is there some way to flash SSU directly? ;) Jun 26 23:44:37 sadly not Jun 26 23:44:40 http://tech.rancorous.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/IMG_20110626_183555.jpg Jun 26 23:44:43 there it is Jun 26 23:44:50 does that look too serious? Jun 26 23:45:10 VOTE VOTE VOTE!!!1 :P http://www.developer.nokia.com/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=197 Jun 26 23:45:11 04Bug 197: kernel builds, but device keeps rebooting Jun 26 23:45:28 povbot, stfu Jun 26 23:45:28 MohammadAG: Error: "stfu" is not a valid command. Jun 26 23:45:35 well it is now Jun 26 23:45:44 haha Jun 26 23:46:52 ic so i have to install PR1.3 then follow ssu install faq Jun 26 23:47:26 yes Jun 26 23:47:33 but it's pretty straight forward Jun 26 23:47:48 it'd be cool to have some repartitioned firmwafre with more / page though (i know there r tuturials, but u know;) Jun 26 23:48:20 / space not page Jun 26 23:48:29 SpeedEvil: http://tech.rancorous.net/?p=12 Jun 26 23:48:37 should type slower when chatting on my n900 ;) Jun 26 23:48:40 that is probably the best i can do as far as a pic goes .. but hopefully that helps Jun 26 23:48:43 LordVan: you can't get more / space Jun 26 23:48:55 err i meant /opt sry Jun 26 23:49:14 Macer: Ok - the brown bits are the underside of the copper tracks where it's been ripped from the board Jun 26 23:49:17 /home respectively Jun 26 23:49:23 MohammadAG: mind to paste your sed for increased /home space? Jun 26 23:49:50 paste? no Jun 26 23:49:56 Macer: The good part is that the 5 pads at the back seem to have perhaps peeled off cleanly. Jun 26 23:50:08 MohammadAG: paste as in copy paste to here :D Jun 26 23:50:08 sed -i 's/2048/XXXX/g' bigfateMMCimage.bin Jun 26 23:50:20 LordVan: ^ there you go :) Jun 26 23:50:37 Macer: In principle, if this is true - with a little glue to hold it properly onto the board, it should work OK Jun 26 23:50:40 you can extend an existing /home Jun 26 23:50:46 easily, with gparted Jun 26 23:51:00 true if i resize the fat32 Jun 26 23:51:19 umount mydocs, resize home partition, resize home fs, redo fat partition Jun 26 23:51:27 would be good for me ;) Jun 26 23:51:29 so that small brown speck is a piece of the board? Jun 26 23:51:35 was it already being held on with glue?? Jun 26 23:52:09 just someone tell me why i didn't think of just using gparted ;) Jun 26 23:52:22 well.. i don't have a tool to open my n900 so i'm kind of screwed for the time being anyways until i get a repair kit Jun 26 23:53:18 i didn't force it. do these things just wear off the board? Jun 26 23:53:25 i've been a baby with my n900 :) Jun 26 23:54:30 anyway I shall re-flash tomorrow then install parted and get that sorted :) too bad stupid cam app needs fat32 fs Jun 26 23:55:49 anyway thanks for the help merlin1991 & MohammadAG i really gotta sleep now it's 01:52 here and I gotta get up in the morning. nite &cya Jun 27 00:00:07 Macer: yes Jun 27 00:00:22 Macer: The spot is a part of the board. Jun 27 00:00:51 Macer: The tracks are made from copper, and are held securely to the structure of the board by being plated to it - there isn't any glue as such Jun 27 00:04:39 so then it should just kind of sit right back in place huh? Jun 27 00:04:40 awesome Jun 27 00:04:45 i'll try it out once i order a repair kit Jun 27 00:04:53 hopefully i don't buy the tools for no reason Jun 27 00:08:18 Macer: I'm unsure - I think you need hot air soldering gear to put it back on Jun 27 00:08:29 I don't think you can do it with a normal iron. Jun 27 00:09:04 DocScrutinizer: USB ports - can they be soldered on with a conventional iron if the pads are OK? Jun 27 00:11:10 the USB port on my previous N900 went out :( Jun 27 00:11:25 :/ Jun 27 00:11:42 a year ago though, so i'm fine now Jun 27 00:11:46 SpeedEvil, they can, afaik two users fixed their N900s Jun 27 00:11:53 but my charger has started to act weird again Jun 27 00:11:58 just like then.. Jun 27 00:47:11 o/ Jun 27 00:54:41 Hi! anyone here maemo dbus expert??? Jun 27 00:54:50 not me Jun 27 00:56:11 I need to prevent a sms to arrive, I already got the sms listening to dbus messages, but I don't know how to prevent the event propagation Jun 27 00:59:17 something like a blacklist Jun 27 00:59:18 ? Jun 27 00:59:36 I vaguely recall that the camera-switcher app does something similr by remapping dbus somehow Jun 27 00:59:42 I don't recall the details Jun 27 00:59:48 maybe something to look into Jun 27 01:00:09 maybe I'd take a look at the source code of smscon that does commands when specific SMS messages arrive Jun 27 01:00:29 HtheB: yes Jun 27 01:00:30 Is smscon open? Jun 27 01:00:41 well if it's in extras devel it has to be open Jun 27 01:00:47 oh Jun 27 01:01:15 let me see smscon Jun 27 01:01:24 Sc0rpius: who said that? :) Jun 27 01:02:01 how can you submit a binary package to autobuilder? Jun 27 01:02:10 you have to submit sources. Autobuilder will generate the binaries for you Jun 27 01:02:15 http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/smscon/0.8.1-3/ Jun 27 01:02:22 you can download the source there, or using apt-get source smscon Jun 27 01:02:53 there are 2 categories Jun 27 01:02:55 free and non-free Jun 27 01:03:04 closed source is "non-free" Jun 27 01:03:09 which doesnt need to send the souce Jun 27 01:03:10 afair Jun 27 01:03:38 hmmm Jun 27 01:03:50 you might be right, though I haven't seen the first non free package in extras devel yet Jun 27 01:03:57 the source is there, and it's python based, win Jun 27 01:04:06 most of those go directly to the Ovi store Jun 27 01:04:52 nice the_lord Jun 27 01:05:36 though the program is kinda usess Jun 27 01:05:38 useless Jun 27 01:05:51 the first thing people do when they steal a phone is to take out the SIM card and put a new one Jun 27 01:06:07 so there must be a software that destroys the phone if it detects a different SIM card :) Jun 27 01:06:19 or render it unusable Jun 27 01:06:49 Sc0rpius: how about putting no sim at all =) Jun 27 01:07:11 yeah that too Jun 27 01:07:18 xD Jun 27 01:07:29 the main idea of smscon is that you can send SMS messages when they steal your phone to do actions Jun 27 01:07:35 Sc0rpius: My carrier sends me a sms delivery message every time I send a SMS Jun 27 01:07:50 are you sure is the carrier? Jun 27 01:07:54 the_lord: lol! Jun 27 01:07:55 xD Jun 27 01:07:56 Sc0rpius: I want to filter that spam Jun 27 01:07:57 because that's a setting in the phone Jun 27 01:08:05 you can turn off delivery confirmation Jun 27 01:08:10 Sc0rpius: yes, i'm sure, it's deactivated Jun 27 01:08:13 hmm Jun 27 01:08:22 Sc0rpius: that will not come up as an sms Jun 27 01:08:26 that's weird that the carrier has turned on forcedly delivery receipts to all SMS Jun 27 01:08:27 it will come up as a "notification" Jun 27 01:08:34 SMS traffic is extremely high already, why would they double it... Jun 27 01:08:49 Sc0rpius: I really don't know Jun 27 01:08:57 the_lord: afaik, there is already such app Jun 27 01:08:59 for the N900 Jun 27 01:09:06 it will come up as a notification in the phone, but it's an SMS. Jun 27 01:09:11 with the delivery receipt flag Jun 27 01:09:14 blacklist sms Jun 27 01:09:37 Sc0rpius: conversations ->settings -> delivery reports Jun 27 01:09:43 the problem is Jun 27 01:09:56 Untick that Jun 27 01:10:13 those delivery receipts come with the receipient number as the "from" address Jun 27 01:10:24 does anybody know where the busybox "logger" logs to? Jun 27 01:10:25 I'm not sure you can block a specific kind of SMS, but phone numbers in the blacklist Jun 27 01:10:41 Check to see if the delivery confirmation has become set. Jun 27 01:10:44 If it has, unset ut Jun 27 01:10:45 it Jun 27 01:10:52 the_lord: what carrier do you have? Jun 27 01:10:58 which* Jun 27 01:11:13 SpeedEvil, it seems the_lord already checked that Jun 27 01:11:31 ah Jun 27 01:11:36 the_lord: Did you? Jun 27 01:12:00 HtheB: Movistar Vzla Jun 27 01:12:10 it's already turned off Jun 27 01:12:23 Night Jun 27 01:12:37 the_lord weird, Movistar doesn't force delivery receipts... Jun 27 01:13:06 night Jun 27 01:13:19 the_lord: check the website of your carrier Jun 27 01:13:27 does it happen with every phone number or just with some? Jun 27 01:13:27 im sure there is an option to disable it :) Jun 27 01:13:28 HtheB: that's a bad joke Jun 27 01:13:36 hehehe Jun 27 01:13:36 Sc0rpius: every one Jun 27 01:13:52 really weird. Jun 27 01:13:59 the_lord: bad joke? Jun 27 01:14:03 does any of you uses smscon ? Jun 27 01:14:13 HtheB: 3rd world carrier Jun 27 01:14:17 and if you put the SIM card in another phone and send a message, you still get the receipts? Jun 27 01:14:40 the_lord: so?... Jun 27 01:14:44 I didnt made any joke Jun 27 01:15:13 just pointing you out to check out if you can disable it by entering some star/hash code or something Jun 27 01:16:25 HtheB: the joke is you assuming that info is in my carrier's website Jun 27 01:16:49 hehehe Jun 27 01:16:57 ...? Jun 27 01:17:03 well since I'm from Venezuela too I knew what he meant Jun 27 01:17:24 what is wrong that a simple faq couldnt be on a website? Jun 27 01:17:25 carriers here doesn't have a website that you can login and do something else than see how much you owe Jun 27 01:17:49 well, there could be someone on the internetzzz that has the same problem Jun 27 01:18:02 maybe he found out how he turned it off? :p Jun 27 01:18:07 I mean, I dont know Jun 27 01:18:08 xD Jun 27 01:18:16 the first thing I'd try is to put the SIM in another phone and send a message. Jun 27 01:18:23 HtheB: that info is not in my carrier's website, and if I call and explain this problem, I will short-circuit the poor guy from support Jun 27 01:18:26 because I'd still think it's my phone that's weird. Jun 27 01:18:39 Sc0rpius: let me try that Jun 27 01:19:32 website looks very flashy if you ask me :p Jun 27 01:19:38 http://www.movistar.com.ve/particulares/movil/ Jun 27 01:20:06 it sucks Jun 27 01:20:19 and it doesn't have the 3G band the N900 uses. Jun 27 01:20:28 that sux Jun 27 01:20:32 well, u still have edge Jun 27 01:20:52 HE Jun 27 01:20:52 now that we are here, why in the world when I remove my n900 battery, my phone loses date and time info? Jun 27 01:21:01 because I'm with another provider and my 3G works perfectly :) Jun 27 01:21:08 the_lord: its normal Jun 27 01:21:15 that's totally normal Jun 27 01:21:31 but if you have the automatic network time set when you turn the phone again it'll get the time from your provider Jun 27 01:21:55 Sc0rpius: does movistar use that function? :p Jun 27 01:22:01 I don't think it's normal that the phone enters in the first time wizard Jun 27 01:22:13 very good question HtheB Jun 27 01:22:25 the_lord: it's not a "wizard" Jun 27 01:22:36 Digitel supports it though, I have the "Update automatically" setting on and it works Jun 27 01:22:57 Sc0rpius: T-Mobile doesnt (here in the Netherlands) Jun 27 01:23:02 Vodafone does though Jun 27 01:23:12 I have Tmob and the 3G sux ass Jun 27 01:23:16 >.< Jun 27 01:23:27 but it's a very known problem Jun 27 01:23:28 anyway Jun 27 01:23:31 it's 3.20 already :( Jun 27 01:23:45 have to work tomorrow .... or... today.... Jun 27 01:23:47 xD Jun 27 01:24:01 HtheB: bye, thx for the help Jun 27 01:24:45 np Jun 27 01:24:59 did you put the sim in a different phone now? Jun 27 01:26:13 HtheB: yes, trying Jun 27 01:28:59 Sc0rpius: do you use smscon? I don't see anything here to prevent sms propagation Jun 27 01:29:32 Sc0rpius: I guess the commands go to the inbox, that's weird Jun 27 01:34:52 Sc0rpius: it's the phone Jun 27 01:35:15 in my gf's N8, if I disable delivery confirmation, it does not arrive Jun 27 01:35:18 f**k Jun 27 01:42:52 reboot the phone Jun 27 01:43:06 and after it reboots, re-check the delivery reports setting Jun 27 01:43:13 and no, I don't use the smscon Jun 27 01:43:46 actually if you disabled in the N8, it should appear already disabled in the N900 Jun 27 01:43:55 because I think that setting is stored in the SIM Jun 27 01:45:11 Sc0rpius: nothing, I'm doomed Jun 27 01:46:33 you're still getting them? Jun 27 01:47:07 well I don't have a Movistar SIM to tell you it happens in my N900 too :( Jun 27 01:48:31 Sc0rpius: I guess I'll try tomorrow with one of my coworker's sim Jun 27 01:48:53 that will work too but a better test would find another N900 and put your SIM on it Jun 27 01:49:26 and your gf's SIM in your phone? Jun 27 01:51:56 I'm testing it Jun 27 01:52:14 but I'm guessing my phone does not send the appropiate code to movistar Jun 27 01:57:16 you haven't installed any other SMS related software to your phone have you? Jun 27 02:00:42 what's wrong? Jun 27 02:01:36 the_lord receives delivery receipts when he sends SMS even though he has that option disabled Jun 27 02:03:05 maybe the operator is to blame? Jun 27 02:03:18 also, what's wrong with them? they're just one line :P Jun 27 02:04:16 he tried his SIM in another phone and doesn't happen Jun 27 02:04:29 it gets annoying Jun 27 02:04:36 in this country, nobody calls, everybody texts Jun 27 02:04:40 Sc0rpius: smscon passes the sms to the inbox Jun 27 02:04:50 oh :( Jun 27 02:05:00 Sc0rpius: there's got to be a way Jun 27 02:05:10 I'm halfway through :P Jun 27 02:07:20 there's a Messageblocker but all it does is stop notifications, but messages also go to the inbox Jun 27 02:07:26 http://maemo.org/packages/view/messageblocker/ Jun 27 02:08:10 he wants messages blocked? Jun 27 02:08:22 the delivery reports yes Jun 27 02:08:41 but that's so weird... I'm pretty sure it won't happen to me if I have a SIM of his carrier Jun 27 02:09:03 maybe the gconf file's corrupt? Jun 27 02:09:04 but I don't know anybody with a Movistar SIM, it's not very popular where I live hehehe Jun 27 02:09:13 anyway, off to bed :P Jun 27 02:10:15 hmmm Jun 27 02:10:16 MohammadAG: what gconf? Jun 27 02:10:20 let's check that Jun 27 02:13:46 Sc0rpius: /apps/osso/rtcom-messaging-ui -> enable_delivery_reports = false Jun 27 02:14:02 hmm Jun 27 02:14:06 weird. Jun 27 02:17:58 Sc0rpius: it's time for #dbus Jun 27 02:18:04 well first I'd try to send a manual SMS Jun 27 02:18:07 without using conversations Jun 27 02:18:11 http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Send_SMS Jun 27 02:18:33 the second example I guess Jun 27 02:18:33 Sc0rpius: done that Jun 27 02:19:11 Sc0rpius: you mean send it to check for the confirmation message? Jun 27 02:19:21 yeah using AT commands directly in the phone's modem Jun 27 02:19:29 and see if the confirmation message occurs Jun 27 02:59:44 I've got a new favorite device manufacturer **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jun 27 02:59:57 2011