**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 27 02:59:57 2011 Jun 27 03:01:21 used to think RIM made sturdy devices, but I've put my n900 through so much in the past week or so that none of my blackberries would have survived Jun 27 03:01:25 heh Jun 27 03:08:26 Boy do I wish I had header files for libconnui and libconnui-cellular right now :( Jun 27 04:09:04 (DocScrutinizer: USB ports - can they be soldered on with a conventional iron if the pads are OK?) yes Jun 27 05:58:41 Morning! Jun 27 06:46:13 MohammadAG: hmhm, was your media player ever uploaded to extras? Jun 27 06:47:40 \o Jun 27 06:47:45 Corsac, it's in devel afaik Jun 27 06:49:47 Corsac, no wait it's not. Jun 27 06:49:57 Corsac, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=988477&postcount=1 Jun 27 06:55:24 * DocScrutinizer curses tmo stylesheet saying "all centered" for display of particular posts like ^^^ Jun 27 06:55:53 ugly like my arse Jun 27 07:32:36 good morning Jun 27 07:35:46 mornng Jun 27 07:36:34 mourning Jun 27 07:37:57 now that I submitted my project to garage, how in here need I talk to Jun 27 07:38:02 in order to puch it in Jun 27 07:38:08 s/puch/push/ Jun 27 07:38:10 cloudyLights meant: in order to push it in Jun 27 07:43:09 OMFG, finally, a *worthy* Slashdot comment: http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2272328&cid=36581172 Jun 27 07:43:15 * RST38h cannot believe his own eyes Jun 27 07:44:44 nice Jun 27 08:05:17 cloudyLights: push it? Jun 27 08:05:52 hi Doc, I used the name you gave Jun 27 08:06:40 I am now waiting for "someone" to approve my garage request for profile-appointment Jun 27 08:07:01 then I can apply to extras-devel Jun 27 08:07:52 X-Fade is doing this Jun 27 08:45:54 uhm Jun 27 08:46:19 is it possible to change gpg key on garage, if any? :) Jun 27 08:47:45 mva: Yes, on your account page. Jun 27 08:48:37 >_<' i see only ssh there ;( Jun 27 08:50:07 mva: Ah yeah, I can only be set on accept. Shall I send you a new invitation then? Jun 27 08:51:06 X-Fade: hi dud Jun 27 08:51:13 or maybe a chick? Jun 27 08:51:32 anyway , hi there Jun 27 08:52:08 nah ;) I just want to know, if it is normal, if i write "0xBEBD2115" in the field, or i need to "gpg --export -a 0xBEDB2115" and paste output there? :) Jun 27 08:52:24 mva: the latter. Jun 27 08:52:45 >_<' can you resend invite then? :) Jun 27 08:52:53 mva: Sure. Jun 27 08:53:16 thx Jun 27 08:53:26 X-Fade, any updates on Harmattan repos? :) Jun 27 08:53:45 are they changing? Jun 27 08:53:56 MohammadAG: Currently working on the Harmattan OBS build target. Jun 27 08:54:33 MohammadAG: Some, build issues I need to figure out. Jun 27 08:57:12 need to get used to OBS then :) Jun 27 08:57:23 Jaffa, ping Jun 27 08:57:36 MohammadAG: Yep, that might be a good idea. Jun 27 08:59:14 What is OBS? Jun 27 09:01:07 btw, can anybody confirm this bug with DrLaunch https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12292 ? ;) Jun 27 09:01:09 04Bug 12292: Crashing on changes in icons grid. Jun 27 09:19:33 How can I flash the device nowadays ? Jun 27 09:20:52 wait for more than 15 seconds? Jun 27 09:21:02 I was about to say that! Jun 27 09:22:51 you flash devices? I thought you only flash people who would appreciate the value Jun 27 09:24:26 MohammadAG: pong Jun 27 09:25:00 Sup #maemo? Jun 27 09:26:18 woah, that much? Jun 27 09:26:23 yes. Jun 27 09:26:23 Hold your horses! Jun 27 09:26:52 * SpeedEvil holds his goldfish instead. Jun 27 09:34:23 morning Jun 27 09:35:41 Morning. Jun 27 09:35:57 morning Jun 27 09:38:40 * lardman is feeling internet withdrawl symptoms Jun 27 09:40:05 That's not fun! Jun 27 09:41:37 lardman: i hate to break this to you, but you may be on IRC right now Jun 27 09:41:50 BCMM: ;) Jun 27 09:42:01 BCMM: but internet at work only is not fun Jun 27 09:42:13 Morning Jun 27 09:42:15 lardman, fukung.net Jun 27 09:42:19 morning khertan Jun 27 09:42:37 * lardman wonders if that is work safe..... Jun 27 09:42:38 how complicated is it to debug an application on-device? Jun 27 09:43:06 (i'm getting frustrated with a hildon-desktop crash) Jun 27 09:43:26 gdb? Jun 27 09:46:31 SpeedEvil: i mean, do binaries already have symbols and so on, or would i have to build a debugging copy? Jun 27 09:47:20 Most binaries don't have symbols Jun 27 09:47:51 A seperate repository with builds built with the debug flag would be cool. Jun 27 09:48:23 That's why RPM is awesome... Jun 27 09:48:26 -debuginfo packages. Jun 27 09:48:45 The RPM build process automagically strips the binaries, and puts the .debug files in a separate package Jun 27 09:49:00 That way, because your application was compiled with -g, it creates a coredump Jun 27 09:49:33 you install the -debuginfo package, and fire up dbg on the binary -- it finds the debug symbols, source code (for that specific build), and you can work on the coredump. Jun 27 09:49:34 Jaffa, got the SDK handy? Jun 27 09:50:01 hi MohammadAG Jun 27 09:50:08 heya crashanddie Jun 27 09:51:03 crashanddie :) Jun 27 09:51:14 hey Venemo Jun 27 09:51:20 hey Jun 27 09:51:26 I agree with your enthusiasm about RPM Jun 27 09:51:38 lol Jun 27 09:51:46 rpm is a real pain ... Jun 27 09:51:51 on meego Jun 27 09:51:56 hmm. i'd need to manually started h-d so i could start it through GDB. how can i kill it without it respawning? Jun 27 09:52:02 zypper have always problem Jun 27 09:52:16 Oh shite, head for cover its about to be an all out rpm/deb war boys. Jun 27 09:52:23 :) Jun 27 09:52:44 Termana: the problem isn't the package ... but the implementation ... Jun 27 09:52:56 (this sentence is true for so many things) Jun 27 09:53:20 That's what she said Jun 27 09:54:26 Jaffa, can you confirm http://www.developer.nokia.com/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=197 ? Jun 27 09:54:27 04Bug 197: kernel builds, but device keeps rebooting Jun 27 09:54:28 khertan, I'm not sure about MeeGo specifics, but RPM in general is very nice Jun 27 09:54:42 the fuck, since when is colour allowed? Jun 27 09:54:58 since DocScrutinizer removed +c Jun 27 09:55:02 few days ago Jun 27 09:55:10 4you got a problem with it? huh? huh?! :P Jun 27 09:55:11 eh? Jun 27 09:55:15 yay for color filtering on clientside Jun 27 09:55:29 crashanddie: you don't like it? Jun 27 09:55:33 MohammadAG: sounds not too pleasant Jun 27 09:55:34 14You got a problem with me? :P Jun 27 09:56:04 Anyone have a rough estimate how much the total size of the Harmattan SDK is to download? Jun 27 09:56:25 Termana: scratchbox or qemu? Jun 27 09:56:33 let's see Jun 27 09:56:39 600MB X86 rootfs Jun 27 09:56:41 hiemanshu, scratchbox I suppose Jun 27 09:56:43 DocScrutinizer, not really. Jun 27 09:56:48 600MB armel rootfs Jun 27 09:56:50 Termana: about 1.4G something Jun 27 09:56:57 crashanddie: I removed +c to see how it works out. If there are any problems, feel free to revert to +c any time Jun 27 09:56:58 400MB scratchbox packages Jun 27 09:57:03 DocScrutinizer, otherwise people start abusing it constantly. Jun 27 09:57:10 Well that really sucks Jun 27 09:57:19 I'll start kicking thos epeople constantly Jun 27 09:57:23 DocScrutinizer, sure, no problem. Jun 27 09:57:40 DocScrutinizer: you will? Jun 27 09:57:43 :/ Jun 27 09:57:46 also, colours really reminds me of mid-90s IRC noobs trying to appear cool. Jun 27 09:58:08 Termana: roughtly 1.8-2G, and qemu is around 1G Jun 27 09:58:09 +c is enabled since weeks now, no issues so far Jun 27 09:58:10 fuck me, I can't believe I just said something about something that used to happen 15 years ago. Jun 27 09:58:20 now where's my rainbow script :P Jun 27 09:58:32 crashanddie: Silly isn't it. Jun 27 09:58:45 test Jun 27 09:59:18 * SpeedEvil is quite happy pidgin doesn't do that sort of silliness. Jun 27 09:59:21 9,8OH HAI GUYS Jun 27 09:59:31 * nid0 claws his eyeballs out Jun 27 09:59:40 * MohammadAG CTRL+As Jun 27 10:00:04 /clear Jun 27 10:00:12 crashanddie: isn't it funny that you are the FIRST user abusing this feature ? :-P Jun 27 10:00:12 crashanddie, HAI CHRISANDDYE I CUN CEE THAT PERURTLY Jun 27 10:00:35 Termana, was there colour in that? Jun 27 10:00:40 tbh, he's second after povbot occasionally flooding my screen with red Jun 27 10:00:47 crashanddie, yes Jun 27 10:00:52 I have 20:20 vision Jun 27 10:00:59 lol Jun 27 10:01:04 Termana, when you highlight me, xchat paints it red Jun 27 10:01:12 Termana, so the colours are ignored, apparently. Jun 27 10:01:15 So, guys, I've got a bit of an odd question: I got my first voicemail, a good 10 months after I got this phone.,... How do I listen to it? Jun 27 10:01:22 crashanddie, oh you meant in mine Jun 27 10:01:26 crashanddie, no, none Jun 27 10:01:26 *151 usually Jun 27 10:01:32 ok Jun 27 10:01:38 robbiethe1st, that really depends on your network operator Jun 27 10:01:38 robbiethe1st: dial the number your operator provides for voicemail Jun 27 10:02:02 oh, ok. so there's no auto-dial button? Jun 27 10:02:11 usually it's by holding the 1 key Jun 27 10:02:13 on regular phones Jun 27 10:02:15 MohammadAG: I have the Qt SDK on this Windows box, yes. Won't be able to play with it until lunch tho Jun 27 10:02:24 Well, nokia n900... Jun 27 10:02:28 should have said that Jun 27 10:02:46 robbiethe1st: It will usually add the contacts from the SIM to contacts. Jun 27 10:02:54 you can then find the one labelled voicemail Jun 27 10:03:01 robbiethe1st, just hold the 1 key Jun 27 10:03:06 robbiethe1st, when dialing. Jun 27 10:03:11 Jaffa, SB SDK Jun 27 10:03:33 ok Jun 27 10:04:23 What surprised me was that you couldn't click on the "1 voicemail" icon to have it auto-dial Jun 27 10:04:37 did that work? Jun 27 10:05:04 tapping? no. Haven't tried the 1 trick yet Jun 27 10:05:12 not tapping, holding it. Jun 27 10:05:23 yep, works Jun 27 10:05:25 No cellphone access here. Jun 27 10:05:41 actually, holding 1 only work if your simcard provides the voicemail number Jun 27 10:05:50 s/work/works/ Jun 27 10:05:51 crashanddie meant: actually, holding 1 only works if your simcard provides the voicemail number Jun 27 10:05:53 Ok, so that will work Jun 27 10:06:05 mine doesn't as I have changed it to something else ;-P Jun 27 10:06:12 I don't like that feature Jun 27 10:06:25 if your simcard doesn't, you can edit the number it's supposed to dial from the contacts menu or something Jun 27 10:06:28 google it Jun 27 10:06:38 so I changed it to *103# which will pop up my balance USSD Jun 27 10:06:42 Hm... how do you access your voicemail externally? Like, from another phone? Jun 27 10:06:59 call your own number, get to voicemail, hit * or #, then type your voicemail code. Jun 27 10:07:00 DocScrutinizer wouldn't use voicemail Jun 27 10:07:08 Ok Jun 27 10:07:15 khertan: hi there Jun 27 10:07:52 there's also a dedicated number usually, like 55 Jun 27 10:08:29 khertan: I used the dependencies in openvpn-applet and got my package working Jun 27 10:08:59 *151 always works for me Jun 27 10:09:00 submitted to garage Jun 27 10:09:07 so, for t-mobile, that'd be? Jun 27 10:09:24 the long version is 00972544151000 (at least in IL) Jun 27 10:09:38 where is that chap that said he got the cellular tower info using ofnofo Jun 27 10:09:53 jonwil Jun 27 10:10:22 hi Jun 27 10:10:26 hi there Jun 27 10:10:43 well, I saw you wrote some lines here yesterday Jun 27 10:10:48 so: did it work? Jun 27 10:10:56 What I have is some code that runs on a N900 with fully updated Fremantle build Jun 27 10:11:02 how often do you change towers? Jun 27 10:11:18 The dumper/logger worked Jun 27 10:11:28 jonwil: hi :-) Jun 27 10:11:33 and ofneo - right , that stack to "talk" to the gsm Jun 27 10:11:35 I have a nice fat list of all the incoming Cell Broadcast messages that came in whilst I was out Jun 27 10:11:42 jonwil: :) Jun 27 10:11:48 I am not using ofono Jun 27 10:11:53 cloudyLights: was it you that's been interested in a python SMSCB logger? Jun 27 10:12:02 funny how it's a 3 byte patch Jun 27 10:12:03 yes, its me Jun 27 10:12:03 I am just using a few ofono cell broadcast SMS decode functions Jun 27 10:12:04 wonder how much time that would've taken nokia to fix Jun 27 10:12:32 * jonwil wishes he had headers for libconnui and libconnui-cellular :P Jun 27 10:12:35 so, is ofneo - still alive? Jun 27 10:12:53 can now ppl write program to "talk" with the cellular network? Jun 27 10:13:01 cloudyLights: http://paste.debian.net/121054/ good enough? Jun 27 10:13:40 sweet! Jun 27 10:13:42 * jonwil wishes he could find a way to detect the 4 events he wants to detect Jun 27 10:13:44 Where's the patcher script? Jun 27 10:13:56 SpeedEvil: doesn't work Jun 27 10:14:16 as I got 10 min b4 my next meeting... Jun 27 10:14:24 SpeedEvil: jonwil will or already has piblished a binary written is c Jun 27 10:14:28 ah Jun 27 10:14:39 Already published it on the mailing list earlier Jun 27 10:14:42 its just a simple .c file Jun 27 10:14:54 can I help in writing a deamon to handle these cell tower change events? Jun 27 10:15:01 crashanddie, ping Jun 27 10:15:03 I'll join it into my flawed script, as that script does nice backup, testing, log etc Jun 27 10:15:42 jonwil: so you get broadcast mgs from two towers , when in one place? Jun 27 10:15:55 jonwil: Ah - don't have SB setup Jun 27 10:16:10 and when you move under 20 km/hour - how often do these tower change? Jun 27 10:16:23 I cant give any info on how often the towers change Jun 27 10:16:31 since that depends on the cell network in your area Jun 27 10:16:37 and exactly where the towers are Jun 27 10:16:40 :) Jun 27 10:16:42 I mean: how can I tell when I am near my bus station? I may have three diffrent towers there... Jun 27 10:16:43 cloudyLights: Depends. you can change tower every 100m. Jun 27 10:16:52 cloudyLights: Or every 30km Jun 27 10:17:26 I need a way to detect a change between 2G and 3G, a way to detect a disconnection (e.g. goes out of range of the tower), a change of operator (i.e. roaming to a different operator) and a switch into or out of airplane mode (i.e. any switch to a mode that shuts off the cell modem) Jun 27 10:17:34 let me ask this: can I use tower msgs to know I need to get off the bus ? Jun 27 10:17:46 Doubt it Jun 27 10:17:49 Not reliable enough Jun 27 10:18:01 and also your network may not even send Cell Broadcast SMS messages Jun 27 10:18:17 Only way to be sure is GPS Jun 27 10:18:33 jonwil, I bet there are some D-Bus signals Jun 27 10:18:40 ut then I need to turn it off Jun 27 10:18:46 and on Jun 27 10:18:51 cloudyLights: smscb is NOT the way for any location awareness, as any such tower name smscb are sent rather infrequently Jun 27 10:18:53 jonwil: 'gsmmon' Jun 27 10:18:57 jonwil: package Jun 27 10:19:39 DocScrutinizer: where can I see smscb.py - to try it out? Jun 27 10:19:41 cloudyLights: you can read tower details without it. Jun 27 10:19:54 hehe, on my home, for now :-P Jun 27 10:19:59 mompls Jun 27 10:20:02 cloudyLights: number I mean Jun 27 10:20:07 where can I find this gsmmon package? Jun 27 10:20:07 how? Jun 27 10:20:38 I cant find anything for N900 with google Jun 27 10:20:41 cloudyLights: see http://maemo.org/packages/view/netmon/ Jun 27 10:20:41 only for symbian Jun 27 10:20:42 oops Jun 27 10:20:45 netmon Jun 27 10:20:47 google "how to get cellid all available phone towers" Jun 27 10:21:08 thnaks , let me see Jun 27 10:21:17 cloudyLights: to use GSM for location purposes, you want to check for CellID parameter, as found e.g. in netmon app Jun 27 10:21:28 it's instantly Jun 27 10:21:30 ok, thnaks Jun 27 10:22:14 X-fade: in case you need me about the application I ask to put on garage - I am here Jun 27 10:22:35 is this application usefull? when to get off bus? Jun 27 10:22:52 cloudyLights: sure! Jun 27 10:23:04 ok, so I need to write it Jun 27 10:23:13 seems simple enoutgh Jun 27 10:23:17 enougth Jun 27 10:25:23 cloudyLights: if you're interested in GSM-based location: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-June/002987.html Jun 27 10:25:34 thnaks Jun 27 10:25:39 was just about to ask Jun 27 10:26:46 cloudyLights : apple-style GPS positioning time? Jun 27 10:27:08 that's be great, given the terrible no-AGPS lock times are Jun 27 10:28:18 X-Fade: thanks Jun 27 10:28:39 netmon looks good except that I cant read python :P Jun 27 10:28:58 strace to see what it does Jun 27 10:33:08 Venemo, pong Jun 27 10:33:59 crashanddie, if I create a file called '.gitignore' in the main directory of my git repo, will it have effects on all subdirectories? Jun 27 10:34:09 yes Jun 27 10:34:29 thanks :) Jun 27 10:34:44 can I / should I also commit this file into the repo? Jun 27 10:35:00 yes Jun 27 10:35:06 okay, thx Jun 27 10:35:48 I believe .gitignore was a stupid idea, .gitallow would have been a lot more interesting Jun 27 10:36:13 why? :P Jun 27 10:36:34 because you *never* think of all the garbage files that your compilation/editors/os create Jun 27 10:36:46 it's a lot easier to think of all the source files Jun 27 10:37:17 my GPS gets a lock in 5s Jun 27 10:38:18 MohammadAG , with no AGPS? Jun 27 10:38:33 If I had to write a rule to select all the source files of my main project? .*\.[sql|C|c|cpp|h|xml|idl], done. Jun 27 10:38:55 Hurrian, that's kinda impossible, even for apple :p Jun 27 10:52:04 jrayhawk: ping Jun 27 10:52:44 hello! Jun 27 10:53:08 jrayhawk: you have any idea how to get ctrl+c working? Jun 27 10:53:58 In xev ctrl is recognized as „Ctrl_L” and C is known as „c”. Jun 27 10:54:08 But Ctrl+C gives only C. Jun 27 10:54:09 ctrl-c is interpreted by the tty driver; I think you can edit /etc/inittab and start a getty on /dev/tty1 Jun 27 10:54:16 Oh, in X? Jun 27 10:54:22 Yes. Jun 27 10:54:31 i have a slightly odd problem. All my audio files seem to be using an icon cached from somewhere. does anyone know how i can reset that behaviour? Jun 27 10:54:36 MohammadAG : http://goput.it/str/7ak.png Jun 27 10:54:36 Hmm. Let me look at my xmodmap settings... Jun 27 10:54:47 cloudyLights: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/bin/smscb.py Jun 27 10:55:01 Hurrian, I'd rather not have storage info on my lock screen Jun 27 10:55:06 i'm not a fan of ricing out my desktop, but it's useful for me, especially when maemo misbehaves Jun 27 10:55:16 and i might get rid of emmc and usd data Jun 27 10:55:22 it requires checking space every now and then Jun 27 10:55:27 I loaded /usr/share/n810-slide-blabla/Xmodmap with xmodmap already. Jun 27 10:55:38 i mean, its not like i generate gb's of data and have to watch that carefully Jun 27 10:56:12 Yeah, mine's a little different. Jun 27 10:56:20 jrayhawk: Alt_L combinations work well. Jun 27 10:59:00 jrayhawk: uhm, I mean „Control_L” instead of „Ctrl_L”. Jun 27 11:00:08 the _L (and _R) parts are meaningless for kbds that don't have two keys of one kind Jun 27 11:00:13 MohammadAG: No, not got the SB SDK. No disk space at home yet, and on Windows at work Jun 27 11:00:22 MohammadAG: Your bug report mentions Qt SDK, not Platform SDK tho' ;-) Jun 27 11:00:23 http://www.omgwallhack.org/home/jrayhawk/maemo/xmodmap.diff Jun 27 11:02:07 I can't for the life of me remember why any of those changes matter, but whatever. Jun 27 11:03:42 ok now that I have the log I need, I can go back and reverse engineer libconnui and libconnui-cellular to see just what it talks to/does Jun 27 11:03:44 e.g. dbus calls Jun 27 11:03:47 and other things Jun 27 11:03:59 jrayhawk: nothing happens… Jun 27 11:04:24 Now it's Control_R Jun 27 11:04:48 But, xmodmap -pm tells: Jun 27 11:05:02 control Control_L (0x25), BadKey (0x6d) Jun 27 11:05:25 Yeah, that should be control Control_L (0x25), BadKey (0x6d), Control_R (0x69) Jun 27 11:05:34 How to modify this? Jun 27 11:05:48 add control = Control_R, I thought. Jun 27 11:06:00 How? Jun 27 11:06:03 Where? Jun 27 11:06:24 Ah, -e. Jun 27 11:06:46 Hell yeah! Jun 27 11:07:06 success? Jun 27 11:07:10 These changes will be restored after reboot? Jun 27 11:07:13 yes, now it works. Jun 27 11:07:19 huzzah Jun 27 11:07:32 No, you'll want to stick them in an xmodmap file and load that xmodmap file in your xsession Jun 27 11:07:48 http://www.omgwallhack.org/home/jrayhawk/maemo/.xmodmap Jun 27 11:07:58 http://www.omgwallhack.org/home/jrayhawk/maemo/.xsession Jun 27 11:08:13 (you'll presumably want to modify that xsession to run some other window manager) Jun 27 11:08:32 Ok. Jun 27 11:09:58 (And/or get rid of the rxvt; I just keep that around in case I screw up my window manager somehow) Jun 27 11:11:11 Btw, what with battery usage? Jun 27 11:11:34 It's pretty bad; the mer project was the attempt to fix that. Jun 27 11:11:45 Oh. Jun 27 11:11:56 I assume with very careful selection of your window manager and applications, you can make it somewhat less bad. Jun 27 11:12:52 huh, i wonder if powertop work Jun 27 11:12:55 s Jun 27 11:15:31 ah, damn, it doesn't Jun 27 11:16:19 if you recompile the kernel with CONFIG_TIMER_STATS you can much more aggressively track down poorly behaving programs. Jun 27 11:18:20 How to check battery level? Jun 27 11:20:09 That's dealt with in Maemo's HAL; most battery applets can work with it. Jun 27 11:20:56 I don't remember how to query HAL from the commandline Jun 27 11:21:23 ah, lshal Jun 27 11:21:52 lshal -u /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/bme Jun 27 11:22:43 charge_level.precentage? Jun 27 11:23:39 battery.reporting.current, battery.reporting.design, and battery.reporting.last_full are typically what percentages are calculated off of. Jun 27 11:24:18 jrayhawk, powertop works fine Jun 27 11:24:48 This is on 2.6.21-omap1 Jun 27 11:36:18 jrayhawk: dwm will be really cool only if statusbar will be on left, not on top… Jun 27 11:36:39 I've seen people do that with gnome-panel. Jun 27 11:37:03 gnome-panel is gnooooooome. Jun 27 11:37:10 <_berto_> hey, what's the max micro-sd size supported by the N900? Jun 27 11:37:13 <_berto_> 16G? Jun 27 11:37:27 Yeah, I haven't really seen anything else fill its roll, though. Jun 27 11:37:36 role Jun 27 11:37:50 _berto_, whatever existed when it was released. 16 I think it was. Doesn't mean 32gb wont work tho.. Jun 27 11:37:59 <_berto_> mece: ok, thx Jun 27 11:39:12 I should see how long it takes to bootstrap modern GHC on this sucker. Jun 27 11:40:36 achipa, ping Jun 27 11:42:07 Hurrian, ping Jun 27 11:43:13 Bah. WANT. NEW. TOY. Jun 27 11:43:56 Jaffa, oh, No N9/50 yet? Jun 27 11:44:11 Jaffa ++ Jun 27 11:44:26 Jaffa, have you applied to the dev device program? Jun 27 11:45:45 Venemo: Of course Jun 27 11:45:57 An actual N950 will speed up dev somewhat Jun 27 11:46:51 didn't luovanto tweet you that he was "going to arrange that" asap? Jun 27 11:47:11 s/didn't/Jaffa, didn't/ Jun 27 11:47:12 mece meant: Jaffa, didn't luovanto tweet you that he was "going to arrange that" asap? Jun 27 11:47:26 hmnhn do the n9{,50} have magnetometer? Jun 27 11:47:32 yes Jun 27 11:47:54 gladly so Jun 27 11:47:55 the n950 has a slightly mores sensitive magnetometer than the N9, the specs say :) Jun 27 11:48:11 I'll finally realize my dream of implementing virtual reality on a phone Jun 27 11:48:46 Jaffa, out of curiousity, what project have you listed in the application form? Jun 27 11:49:01 mece: He did. "S" isn't "S" enough for me, though :-) Jun 27 11:49:28 mece , pong Jun 27 11:49:50 _berto_, using a 32GB uSD right now with my N900 Jun 27 11:49:58 brb Jun 27 11:50:15 Venemo: Hermes, Attitude, vim, Catorise, community assistance Jun 27 11:50:35 ~seen lardman Jun 27 11:50:41 lardman is currently on #maemo #meego. Has said a total of 32 messages. Is idling for 32m 20s, last said: 'lcuk: only with dedicated hw scanners'. Jun 27 11:50:46 Jaffa, that's a lot! :) Jun 27 11:50:56 Having a cross-platform Hermes would be useful, since my wife's now got a C7 Jun 27 11:51:08 Venemo, jaffa has attitude, one of the first community tested n9 apps Jun 27 11:51:21 And one of the first community tested N900 apps :-) Jun 27 11:51:25 It's a tradition Jun 27 11:51:28 (now) Jun 27 11:51:32 haha Jun 27 11:51:37 if your app hasn't been tested then, ask yourself why havent you got the sdk and offered something ;) Jun 27 11:52:07 lcuk :) Jun 27 11:52:08 Jaffa, is the c7 caacitive or resistive? Jun 27 11:52:13 p Jun 27 11:52:20 Cap. Jun 27 11:52:26 the c5 is resistive thankfully Jun 27 11:52:27 lcuk, C7 along with other symbian 3 devices is capacitive methinks Jun 27 11:52:38 lcuk: Oh, really? Interesting. Jun 27 11:52:46 I listed Tweed Suit, Qlister and an unnamed friend tracker meeting helper thingamabob I'm working on every now and then. *fingers crossed* Jun 27 11:53:28 you can get c7's at pretty good deals in Fi right now. I'm considering getting one to use as boat navigator. Jun 27 11:53:35 Navionics ftfw Jun 27 11:54:00 http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=23664#post23664 makes me sad Jun 27 11:54:05 * Jaffa blames X-Fade Jun 27 11:54:14 ...but shouldn't shoot the messenger ;-) Jun 27 11:54:52 Jaffa, I wasn't aware you was behind Hermes Jun 27 11:54:59 Venemo: I am Jun 27 11:55:07 Jaffa, thanks for it! it's a very nice piece of software :) Jun 27 11:55:09 Jaffa, damn. That blows! Jun 27 11:55:18 Venemo: thanks :) Jun 27 11:55:51 Jaffa: But this is not a problem at all. Jun 27 11:55:53 a community repo app for download somewhere very visible would be nice.. Jun 27 11:56:02 Jaffa: There just isn't an application manager anymore. Jun 27 11:56:05 cloudyLights: ping Jun 27 11:56:15 X-Fade, how do app managing work then? Jun 27 11:56:47 mece: You just long press on an icon of an app and hit X to uninstall Jun 27 11:56:49 lardman: did you get far with the event demon? Jun 27 11:57:05 lardman: the one that lets me hook to a location change? Jun 27 11:57:05 X-Fade, fun for pocket uninstalling Jun 27 11:57:07 Jaffa, as for me, I only have a couple of apps (not as many as you) Jun 27 11:57:13 X-Fade, and install simply from the intertubes, or from ovi app? Jun 27 11:57:16 plus a couple of app ideas :) Jun 27 11:57:29 mece: qgil's been installing random debs direct from the browser over HTTP Jun 27 11:57:38 cloudyLights: I've started, but been interrupted by a week or so of moving house Jun 27 11:57:38 Venemo, you have a skill beyond your app Jun 27 11:57:39 mece: Store app or deb from browser. Jun 27 11:57:39 porting Jun 27 11:57:45 and packaging Jun 27 11:57:49 Jaffa, yeah, heard about that from ville. Jun 27 11:57:56 dragly: did you manage to fix your n950? Jun 27 11:57:56 taking that seed of an app and getting it onto many places Jun 27 11:57:59 there is a setting to allow apps from untrusted sources :) Jun 27 11:58:00 "deb from browser" is horrid if that's a preferred approach Jun 27 11:58:04 well, perhaps the legacy of the best-named app of all time can live on then? Jun 27 11:58:19 * mece is speaking of "fapman", naturally. Jun 27 11:58:22 Jaffa: Nah, we just need our app somewhere. Jun 27 11:58:33 lcuk, that is very kind of you to say :) Jun 27 11:58:45 X-Fade: Ideally Ovi, of course. But will they host it? Jun 27 11:59:11 Jaffa: They might. I can see if I can push some buttons :) Jun 27 11:59:25 Jaffa, X-Fade, we're talking about a repository/app manager, right? Jun 27 11:59:28 lardman: can I help Jun 27 11:59:30 ? Jun 27 11:59:34 Jaffa, isn't it compliant enough to be published officially? Jun 27 11:59:39 Jaffa: But there is also the nokia apps repo, which is maybe a simpler target. Jun 27 11:59:42 mece: Right. For discovering and installing OSS software built by COBS Jun 27 11:59:47 I would rather hook to your deamon, then write my own Jun 27 11:59:53 cloudyLights: sure, in Garage, project is called Proximus Jun 27 11:59:59 ie just put it on the ovi store Jun 27 12:00:02 I'll get cracking on it again this week Jun 27 12:00:11 ovi store AND website Jun 27 12:00:18 Proximus, right Jun 27 12:00:26 lcuk: Isn't "what" compliant enough to be published on Ovi? Jun 27 12:00:36 cloudyLights: what was your usecase? Jun 27 12:00:38 where you involved in gpe calender? Jun 27 12:00:38 lcuk, the app doesn't exist yet. Jun 27 12:00:49 Jaffa, attitude? Jun 27 12:00:58 lardman: alert user before he arrives at a bus station Jun 27 12:01:00 lcuk: And if we decide that Ovi is the best way for the community to publish apps, why bother with our QA processes and COBS targets? Jun 27 12:01:02 mece: There is an app. Jun 27 12:01:06 cloudyLights: ah yes Jun 27 12:01:13 lcuk: I'm sure it is. But publishing on Ovi is more opaque than OBS Jun 27 12:01:17 X-Fade, oh... cool :) Jun 27 12:01:28 mece: The discovery part already works. Just needs a backend for installing debs ;) Jun 27 12:01:28 X-Fade, is it nice? Jun 27 12:01:44 ah Jun 27 12:01:53 apt is already there... Jun 27 12:02:08 sigh Jun 27 12:02:10 cloudyLights: if you have any thoughts then let me know (no internet at home, so will have to be during office hours in the UK), but I'll try to crack on now that I'm not so knackered from the move Jun 27 12:02:19 have to use this damn android phone Jun 27 12:02:26 * lardman pops to the pos office, bbiab Jun 27 12:02:34 good point Jaffa, unusually for me I was not thinking in the more general scope Jun 27 12:02:41 stupid low quality usb port on the n900 Jun 27 12:02:50 sucks Jun 27 12:03:03 Macer, :( Jun 27 12:03:03 lardman: I can sms you ;-) Jun 27 12:03:07 i dont like andridiot too much Jun 27 12:03:07 lcuk: Very unusual for you! ;-p Jun 27 12:03:19 Jaffa, baby brain today Jun 27 12:03:20 :) Jun 27 12:03:31 Any progress yet? Jun 27 12:03:35 yes Jun 27 12:03:37 lcuk, how's the little hellraiser? Jun 27 12:03:39 9lb 4 Jun 27 12:03:42 4 hours Jun 27 12:03:45 lcuk: Wow, congratulations! Jun 27 12:03:52 THat's a big 'un. Jun 27 12:03:54 2 paracetamol and gas and air only! Jun 27 12:03:56 Jaffa, you've been off twitter I see... Jun 27 12:04:04 mece: Yeah Jun 27 12:04:17 mece: https://gitorious.org/meego-community-extras-client Jun 27 12:04:18 lcuk: Wow. Piece of piss ;-) Jun 27 12:04:21 yeah Jaffa we have hello world pics ;) Jun 27 12:04:25 lcuk: Sex? Jun 27 12:04:32 indeed it was, tracy didn't think she was ready to push Jun 27 12:04:41 X-Fade, sweet! Jun 27 12:04:50 Jaffa, boy, calling him Finlay Jun 27 12:05:00 lcuk: Cool name. He's gorgeous; congratulations to you all. Jun 27 12:05:04 lcuk: Congrats! Jun 27 12:05:07 * lcuk nods Jun 27 12:05:10 \o Jun 27 12:06:06 ty X-Fade Jaffa, will pass on to tracy Jun 27 12:06:44 lcuk, very cool name. I really like the Gaelic names. I have a Ciara myself :) Jun 27 12:07:16 finlay? Jun 27 12:07:28 never met a finlay before Jun 27 12:11:33 X-Fade, does qgil have pull in the repository/app thing? That thing simply _must_ be available at release date.. Jun 27 12:11:52 as we all know, the cool stuff comes from the community :) Jun 27 12:13:11 lcuk: http://www.cardfr.com/953-973-thickbox/carte-finlay.jpg Jun 27 12:13:47 oh gawd hiemanshu Jun 27 12:13:57 good job we did not use WWE names though Jun 27 12:14:08 "The ROCK Birkett" :D Jun 27 12:14:25 lcuk: finlay is a wwe guy :P Jun 27 12:14:36 that is my point Jun 27 12:15:39 I used to be a WWE fan :P when I was little :P Jun 27 12:16:16 World Wildlife Federation? Jun 27 12:16:19 o E Jun 27 12:16:49 mece: I suppose the point is that there's no central app manager to discover them in. However, getting apps.meego.com granted a certificate which gives community apps (at least) equal power to Ovi, and without developer/open mode would mean our client, or installs through the browser, would be useful compared with the locked down "install deb from browser" Jun 27 12:16:55 * lcuk believes hulkamania and for more shame, rick flair were around Jun 27 12:17:36 *pong* Jun 27 12:17:40 anyone wanted me? Jun 27 12:20:22 Jaffa, what do you think I should put into the "Project URL" field in the application form (in case I'm planning to do multiple projects, and these don't have their URL yet)? Jun 27 12:21:12 Venemo, I don't think it matters that much. Put something for the biggest project, or the one you like the most. Jun 27 12:21:28 mece, it doesn't matter much? that's a relief :) Jun 27 12:21:42 Venemo, I'm guessing here :D Jun 27 12:21:44 I never bothered to create any real kind of web page for any of my projects Jun 27 12:21:54 Venemo, me neither. Jun 27 12:28:51 Venemo: Your blog or maemo.org page or something Jun 27 12:29:11 Jaffa, mhm Jun 27 12:29:20 Venemo: I think your URL should be "http://give.jaffa.my.device/" Jun 27 12:29:20 Jaffa, which one did you choose? Jun 27 12:29:26 Venemo: Or your bestest project. Jun 27 12:29:30 :D Jun 27 12:29:35 Venemo: http://hermes.garage.maemo.org/ Jun 27 12:30:04 I just usually get a co.cc domain and a free hosting account, and shove a HTML file with a download link there. Jun 27 12:30:12 worksforme.so Jun 27 12:31:43 Jaffa, is there any reason why Hermes hates me recently? Jun 27 12:32:06 hi Jun 27 12:32:09 I click on "Refresh" and it says "Network connection error", even though other apps can use the network flawlessly. Jun 27 12:32:16 Jaffa ^ Jun 27 12:32:42 anyone had/have modest that keep crashing with internal error...and then restart , recrash and so on ? Jun 27 12:32:49 \o/ took a crashcourse about libcmtspeech, dunno what for though Jun 27 12:33:45 what is the best mail client for maemo5 ? Jun 27 12:33:56 there is not a single good one :( Jun 27 12:34:03 bah Jun 27 12:34:11 so, the less worst ? Jun 27 12:34:12 :p Jun 27 12:34:27 my modest keep crashing in loop Jun 27 12:34:31 i dont get why Jun 27 12:34:32 Stock works for me; or google's web client Jun 27 12:34:46 does that handle exchange ? Jun 27 12:34:55 I.e. modest Jun 27 12:35:03 Venemo: Reauthorise Facebook. Jun 27 12:35:08 mine is buggy Jun 27 12:35:10 Could be your filesystem's corrupt; either reflash it, or install backupmenu and run the fsck option Jun 27 12:35:13 now if only Nokia had released docs and specs/files like http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-cellular/libcmtspeechdata/blobs/master/cmtspeech.h and http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-cellular/libcmtspeechdata/blobs/master/doc/libcmtspeechdata_api_docs_main.txt from very beginning, for all their closed blobs, then probably bad feelings about the closed *implementation* whould have been less :-S Jun 27 12:35:25 ah i also got an issue with facebook, for sharing pics Jun 27 12:35:30 noway to auth Jun 27 12:35:30 Jaffa, how do I do that? Jun 27 12:35:30 Mine started doing that when my OptFS suddenly became corrupt Jun 27 12:35:31 :s Jun 27 12:35:37 anyway, I'm off. Jun 27 12:35:44 Venemo: Accounts > Facebook > Clear authorisation inside Hermes Jun 27 12:35:50 optFS ? Jun 27 12:35:59 ah maybe i got filesys full :s Jun 27 12:36:08 that could be the point Jun 27 12:36:16 Jaffa, thanks, I'll try Jun 27 12:36:32 nikkk0: you're on cssu? Jun 27 12:36:42 good question Jun 27 12:36:50 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11961 Jun 27 12:36:51 04Bug 11961: Random email application (modest) crashes with CSSU Jun 27 12:37:01 DocScrutinizer: how to be sure ? Jun 27 12:37:01 Jaffa: :-D Jun 27 12:37:11 lol, you should know Jun 27 12:37:22 nikkk0: Go to "Settings". If it has an "About CSSU" next to "About product" Jun 27 12:37:23 i installed so mannnny stuff :p Jun 27 12:37:29 as installing cssu isn't sth you do by accident Jun 27 12:37:37 Jaffa: nope only about product Jun 27 12:38:01 Jaffa, thanks, it seems to be working now! Jun 27 12:38:22 Jaffa: DocScrutinizer: nope i'm not in cssu then :) Jun 27 12:38:45 i'm gonna try to get some freespace on /opt/ and see if it can start Jun 27 12:38:52 then modest loop-crashing is pathological Jun 27 12:39:00 Jaffa, also, in the field in which I should list my contributions to Maemo, should I post links to the various projects I have contributed to? Jun 27 12:39:06 Jaffa:https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11961 how can I help? Jun 27 12:39:08 04Bug 11961: Random email application (modest) crashes with CSSU Jun 27 12:39:10 I also see this Jun 27 12:39:30 thats with cssu Jun 27 12:39:37 i'm affraid dont have that Jun 27 12:40:11 cssu issnt part of the apt/source.list right? Jun 27 12:40:21 Venemo: I think so! (Although, of course, I'm not involved and can only speak for what *I* did) Jun 27 12:40:28 I love the "random email application" bit in it ;-P Jun 27 12:40:33 Jaffa, sure, thx :) Jun 27 12:40:40 DocScrutinizer :D Jun 27 12:40:41 cloudyLights: Speak to Sc0rpius or MohammadAG or merlin1991 here on or #maemo-ssu Jun 27 12:40:52 :) Jun 27 12:41:06 DocScrutinizer: :) Jun 27 12:41:28 o ok , be glad to help on that Jun 27 12:41:31 to get a clean modest Jun 27 12:41:38 i guess rm /home/user/.modest Jun 27 12:41:45 apt-get remove modest Jun 27 12:41:45 haha Jun 27 12:41:50 hahaha Jun 27 12:41:51 and then trying to reinstall could fix? Jun 27 12:42:03 try to reinstall might get funny Jun 27 12:42:19 already did, but no sure i cleaned all data/accounts Jun 27 12:42:19 :s Jun 27 12:42:24 I'm not sure there's a modest package Jun 27 12:42:31 there is Jun 27 12:42:36 oh, ok Jun 27 12:42:36 :) Jun 27 12:43:07 Removing it will want to remove mp-fremantle-generic-pr though Jun 27 12:43:19 still I wonder how that's plumbed t maemo-MP Jun 27 12:43:26 yeah Jun 27 12:43:35 exactly that Jun 27 12:43:48 whats that Jaffa ? Jun 27 12:43:50 DocScrutinizer> what is TA value im cellular? Jun 27 12:44:00 timing advance Jun 27 12:44:06 maybe i already did :s Jun 27 12:44:12 shoudl check if its still there Jun 27 12:44:23 see link to my 2008 mail to openmoko ML I linked you to Jun 27 12:44:51 it basically tells how far you're from BTS Jun 27 12:45:04 I am reading it and dodnt understand what TA mean, i will read on Jun 27 12:45:10 Jaffa, a slight question about Hermes: can I somehow make it respect the native name order of my country? Jun 27 12:45:10 in 550m increments Jun 27 12:45:27 Venemo: Not currently. What do you mean? Jun 27 12:45:47 it's a correction factor for the mobile's timer to stay in sync with BTS tower Jun 27 12:45:49 Venemo: If there's not an issue for it already open, though, it'd be good if you could. Since some bits will need tweaking for Qt Mobility backed anyway Jun 27 12:46:22 cloudyLights: or in other words, it's representing speed of light delay for your data to tower Jun 27 12:46:41 Jaffa, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_name_order#Name_order Jun 27 12:46:50 o ok Jun 27 12:46:53 Jaffa, if it's Qt, I could take a look Jun 27 12:48:14 ok, and for the speed of the device. Jun 27 12:48:19 time for some proper cool beer... where are my sunglasses? Jun 27 12:48:23 o/ Jun 27 12:48:25 beside overclocking, no other way to gain in speed? Jun 27 12:48:45 reduce memory consumption Jun 27 12:48:57 so less widget and apps? Jun 27 12:49:02 Venemo: It's not yet. Jun 27 12:49:18 Jaffa, not yet what? Jun 27 12:49:24 overclocking is BS, unless you know *exactly* why it's needed and what it does in a particular problem case Jun 27 12:50:03 what u mean by BS? Jun 27 12:50:08 I will try to run this kind of script here and see what I get Jun 27 12:50:19 base station? Jun 27 12:50:26 :) Jun 27 12:50:35 doubt it Jun 27 12:50:44 I mean I had laptops that had half the CPU grunt of that little N900, and still served me well, even on KDE and for OpenOffice Jun 27 12:50:59 indeed Jun 27 12:51:07 so what is killing the n900 ? :p Jun 27 12:51:16 my gf's pictures ? Jun 27 12:51:17 :) Jun 27 12:51:19 nikkk0: you. Jun 27 12:51:35 heh Jun 27 12:51:54 probably .. but it wasnt that fast in the begining ;) Jun 27 12:51:56 he's right Jun 27 12:52:02 btw, now that I am working with ec2, seems a good test to see how I can use ec2 from my N900 Jun 27 12:52:08 more about that - later Jun 27 12:52:39 esp if you are overclocking it - that qualifies for a really proper kill Jun 27 12:53:44 did anyone here used ec2 and n900 for some application? Jun 27 12:53:49 DocScrutinizer :) Jun 27 12:53:55 cloudyLights, what is ec2? Jun 27 12:54:03 amazon cloud Jun 27 12:54:07 heh Jun 27 12:54:15 I'm guessing everyone did at some point or another. Jun 27 12:54:19 I can think of wep cracking as an example of cpu need Jun 27 12:54:29 WEP cracking doesn't require CPU Jun 27 12:54:35 It takes about 3 minutes to crack a WEP key. Jun 27 12:54:38 on the N900 Jun 27 12:54:48 well, something else Jun 27 12:54:53 what if 3 minutes is too long? ;) Jun 27 12:55:14 cloudyLights: for wpa maybe Jun 27 12:55:14 not wep Jun 27 12:55:14 :) Jun 27 12:55:16 taks min to createa new instance Jun 27 12:55:23 joga: then you shouldn't try to crack the WEP of the police station :-P Jun 27 12:55:28 Venemo: yes ? Jun 27 12:55:35 but rather run john on ps3 Jun 27 12:55:36 DocScrutinizer hah, like they even have encryption ;) Jun 27 12:55:39 than on n900 Jun 27 12:56:35 * DocScrutinizer still has to witness john cracking a wpa key with a proper non-dictionary passphrase Jun 27 12:57:10 if u got many gpu could happens Jun 27 12:57:11 :) Jun 27 12:57:31 javispedro: moin Jun 27 12:57:35 moin Jun 27 12:57:45 so, everybody got his n9devkit already? =) Jun 27 12:58:02 javispedro: :-p Jun 27 12:58:07 j/k ;P Jun 27 12:58:13 I think I found the signals I need Jun 27 12:58:24 javispedro: My N950 got lost in the post, so they've sent me one of each colour 64GB N9s instead Jun 27 12:58:25 Time to see if http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control has info on the things I need to use Jun 27 12:59:05 :) Jun 27 12:59:50 Knowing Nokia, they would probably replace a lost N950 with an N97 Jun 27 13:00:35 * Jaffa has sent one of his N900s off for repair. Goodness knows what I'll get back Jun 27 13:00:45 Heh Jun 27 13:00:51 jonwil: we had one such case here Jun 27 13:01:02 someone sent a n900 and got a n8 iirc Jun 27 13:01:09 Jaffa: I sent mine off two weeks before SF and got a replaced internal board, so I'm guessing they probably still have some parts somewhere ;) Jun 27 13:01:25 this makes me think Jun 27 13:01:44 european warranty law states that you may get a back an alternative device with similar or superior specifications Jun 27 13:01:45 alterego: I was remembering what javispedro's said about some shortages Jun 27 13:01:47 If you wait until after the N9 is launched you should be able to get one of those as it's functionally more equivalent ;) Jun 27 13:01:58 javispedro: The only superior spec device Nokia have is N950 or N9 ;-) Jun 27 13:01:59 both of my N900 warranty issues were resolved with a new N900 Jun 27 13:02:00 is the n8 superior to the n900? =) Jun 27 13:02:11 javispedro: Lower screen res; no keyboard. Jun 27 13:02:13 javispedro: camera is :P Jun 27 13:02:28 And maybe some inbuilt software functionality .. But meh. Jun 27 13:02:28 lower cpu speed Jun 27 13:02:35 and symbian Jun 27 13:02:53 Court would probably rule you could sell it, buy an N900 for a profit on eBay and so should shut up. Jun 27 13:03:04 haha Jun 27 13:03:09 Jaffa: you have a point =) Jun 27 13:03:29 Heh Jun 27 13:03:40 Jaffa: that would work, if you could buy an N900 ;) Jun 27 13:03:46 I'll sell you one for 500 :P Jun 27 13:03:48 (EUR) Jun 27 13:04:13 alterego: One for 67 quid with 3 hours left. Jun 27 13:04:22 Hmm, it seems the second hand market isn't as good as I'd hoped Jun 27 13:04:25 Bargain, Jun 27 13:04:31 Mine is brand new and boxed :P Jun 27 13:04:45 bah, I wish I could figure out how to talk to the registration_status_change, signal_strength_change, radio_access_technology_change and radio_info_change signals Jun 27 13:04:50 http://phones.shop.ebay.co.uk/Mobile-Phones-w-o-Contract-/9355/i.html?_nkw=nokia+n900&_catref=1&_fln=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282 Jun 27 13:04:50 Or what they are for Jun 27 13:05:12 google doesn' Jun 27 13:05:15 doesn't help Jun 27 13:05:22 Ah, the 67 quid one has a broken USB port! Jun 27 13:05:42 a N900 with a busted USB is useless Jun 27 13:05:44 we are boned, no n900, no n950, ... Jun 27 13:06:13 jonwil: not entirely, if you have a way to charge it. Jun 27 13:06:22 Flashing it is possible .. Jun 27 13:06:27 (without USB) Jun 27 13:06:41 Plus, spare screen may be worth that. Jun 27 13:06:47 And keypad etc. Jun 27 13:07:10 also you might be able to fix the port? Jun 27 13:07:30 That is also a possibility, but you wouldn't know until you got it. Jun 27 13:07:35 * dm8tbr has never seen the PCB nor the damage a sheered off connector does Jun 27 13:10:40 Anyone here know anything about how flightmode works? Jun 27 13:10:59 It powers down radios Jun 27 13:12:31 that much I knoqw Jun 27 13:12:40 I mean how do userspace apps enable/disable it Jun 27 13:12:47 i.e. the flightmode ui options Jun 27 13:13:51 Check for dbus calls Jun 27 13:14:02 jonwil: can you please share the arm binary resulting from that 5liner c program to patch the lib? Jun 27 13:14:18 I'm not prepared to compile it here ;-) Jun 27 13:14:40 yeah I can do that Jun 27 13:14:43 * jonwil turns on linux box Jun 27 13:15:29 please turn it off, it's already too hot Jun 27 13:16:14 Heh Jun 27 13:18:26 jonwil: (wish I could figure) http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-cellular/libcmtspeechdata/blobs/master/doc/libcmtspeechdata_api_docs_main.txt Jun 27 13:19:38 Whats that documentation for? Jun 27 13:19:58 Also guys, for future reference, do NOT handle a N900 after eating pizza with chili on it Jun 27 13:20:09 mentions all the dbus signals of the events you're asking for Jun 27 13:20:18 almost all at least, related to CSD Jun 27 13:20:35 but you can handle your n900 to your 8 month old daughter, no problem Jun 27 13:21:22 That doc doesnt mention any of those signals Jun 27 13:21:29 It seems to be for a meego library Jun 27 13:21:41 Sure you got the right docs? Jun 27 13:22:11 jonwil, why not? I thought that N900 in pizza flavour would be tasty :P Jun 27 13:22:30 jonwil: http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-cellular/libcmtspeechdata/blobs/master/doc/libcmtspeechdata_api_docs_main.txt#line268 Jun 27 13:22:36 jonwil: et ff Jun 27 13:22:58 oh ok Jun 27 13:23:29 I just found a package by the name of libcsnet-dev_0.4.14+0m5_armel Jun 27 13:23:37 which contains a file called net_interface.xml Jun 27 13:23:40 which happens to be what I need Jun 27 13:23:45 http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-cellular/libcmtspeechdata/blobs/master/doc/libcmtspeechdata_api_docs_main.txt#line285 Jun 27 13:24:06 http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-cellular/libcmtspeechdata/blobs/master/doc/libcmtspeechdata_api_docs_main.txt#line297 Jun 27 13:24:10 etc etc Jun 27 13:24:43 afk Jun 27 13:24:45 o/ Jun 27 13:25:23 Looks like net_interface.xml is full dbus introspection XML Jun 27 13:25:32 full details of all the stuff Phone.Net does Jun 27 13:25:59 The amount of useful headers, documentation and code that's out there if you know where it is is surprising... Jun 27 13:27:13 ok, I have the compiled binary for the patcher and dumper apps, what should I do with them? Jun 27 13:28:10 Interesting, I think I can figure out how to use libconnui and libconnui-cellular directly just like the operator name widget Jun 27 13:28:19 which saves me writing new code Jun 27 13:30:01 all I gotta do is understand the maw that is dbus_glib :P Jun 27 13:32:09 use python ;-P Jun 27 13:32:43 http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/bin/smscb.py Jun 27 13:34:03 (what to do with binary) attach to mail to ML, or send to my mail addr directly, whatever you prefer Jun 27 13:34:20 or up to the location where's sourcecode as well Jun 27 13:36:03 will send to you directly Jun 27 13:37:03 email sent Jun 27 13:40:25 ell broadcast Jun 27 13:40:34 DocScrutinizer: whats this script for ? Jun 27 13:40:40 cell Jun 27 13:41:23 pdu..sms, sounds good Jun 27 13:41:24 qdbus experts, if an application does QDBusConnection::systemBus().connect(QString(), "/some/path/", "some.interface", "something", this, SLOT(...)), is it listening to signals? Jun 27 13:41:47 btw, is there a way to query the sim via the filesys ? Jun 27 13:42:18 nikkk0: No Jun 27 13:42:25 nikkk0: What do you mean 'query the SIM' Jun 27 13:43:39 SpeedEvil: hmm list whats in it :) Jun 27 13:43:53 contacts..and other stuff Jun 27 13:43:54 get cryptokey ? :) Jun 27 13:43:54 nikkk0: http://paste.debian.net/121054/ Jun 27 13:44:36 also seems pnatd is in charge of the sms Jun 27 13:44:59 anybody got a clear view on what is where on the filessytem? Jun 27 13:45:09 nikkk0: cryptokey can 'never' be read from modern SIMs. Jun 27 13:45:10 SMS stuff on N900 is done via the CSD daemon Jun 27 13:45:14 can we sniff gsm signal ? Jun 27 13:45:17 nikkk0: no Jun 27 13:45:32 and specifically the libcsd-sms plugin Jun 27 13:45:37 and libsms library Jun 27 13:45:37 nikkk0: Basically, you can't do anything interesting, the modem is talkable to by AT commands - and that's pretty much all Jun 27 13:45:56 nikkk0: The modem runs its own software stack, and deals with all of the low level stuff. Jun 27 13:46:09 hmm Jun 27 13:46:09 but the fone doesnt access it anyhow ? Jun 27 13:46:19 heard it has its own cpu and is blocked by all means Jun 27 13:46:22 nikkk0: All you can do on the main processor is boring stuff like echo cancellation, and making your voice sound like darth vader. Jun 27 13:46:37 SpeedEvil: modem is pnatd process ? Jun 27 13:46:42 No. Jun 27 13:46:50 ehhe Jun 27 13:46:54 pnatd has nothing to do with modem Jun 27 13:46:58 The modem is software running on a completely seperate CPU. Jun 27 13:46:59 modem is separate CPU Jun 27 13:47:02 SpeedEvil: what about imei/imsi spoof? Jun 27 13:47:07 pnatd talks to it in some ways. Jun 27 13:47:11 nikkk0: no, you can't. Jun 27 13:47:11 ok Jun 27 13:47:19 imei and imsi are handled by modem firmware also Jun 27 13:47:30 all the sensitive stuff is handled by the modem firmware Jun 27 13:47:31 hmm Jun 27 13:47:42 nikkk0: _every_ interesting 'hacking' suggestion is 'no, you can't' as the modem stack is secured, and not open, and designed not to allow it. Jun 27 13:47:46 and patching the firmware? Jun 27 13:47:57 :s Jun 27 13:47:59 damn no Jun 27 13:48:01 You can upgrade the modem firmware with the appropriately signed firmware Jun 27 13:48:02 sux Jun 27 13:48:22 Its a good thing that you cant mess with the modem firmware Jun 27 13:48:39 imsi is on the sim Jun 27 13:48:39 go osmocom if you're interested in hacking the gsm stack Jun 27 13:48:43 jonwil: In some ways, in others it'd be nice. Jun 27 13:48:47 imei on the device Jun 27 13:48:54 I want to chane the IMEI to one of a smashed ipad, for example. Jun 27 13:48:57 DocScrutinizer: i am Jun 27 13:49:08 but any good stuff runing out on n900 ? :) Jun 27 13:49:09 So I can use an ipad plan on my n900 Jun 27 13:49:20 nikkk0: no Jun 27 13:50:07 Would be interesting to see someone try to get osmocombb running on something more powerful than the Motorola C series dumbphones they are trying to run it on now... Jun 27 13:50:19 but imsi is read from the sim Jun 27 13:50:21 Although given that more powerfull phones tend to have more security for the modem firmware Jun 27 13:50:39 and also much more complex modem chipsets Jun 27 13:50:42 nikkk0: you start nagging Jun 27 13:50:48 nikkk0: IMEI I meant Jun 27 13:50:56 nikkk0: there's no access to modem, and no access to sim Jun 27 13:51:07 nikkk0: anyway - the n900 modem is not crackable, so you can't do any of this. Jun 27 13:51:08 ok Jun 27 13:51:17 I doubt we will see osmocombb on anything thats actually good anytime soon :P Jun 27 13:51:20 sad Jun 27 13:51:20 :s Jun 27 13:51:23 There is no 'filesystem' Jun 27 13:51:49 hmm Jun 27 13:51:50 btw I heard its the same in android Jun 27 13:52:02 now i wonder why didnt i buy a windows fone :p Jun 27 13:52:14 joke Jun 27 13:52:16 In most phones this is the case. Jun 27 13:52:26 There are two independant cores Jun 27 13:52:30 and for a good reason Jun 27 13:52:32 yeah i guess so Jun 27 13:52:50 ;) Jun 27 13:54:07 btw, who was it that suggested I should use Python? Every time I look at Python code, my eyes glaze over. Jun 27 13:54:14 so the firmware is the key/or the lock :p Jun 27 13:54:36 You probably couldn't get me to mess with Python if you paid me to do it Jun 27 13:54:59 * crashanddie takes note never to hire jonwil Jun 27 13:55:38 I am perfectly happy with C++, C, VB.NET, Delphi, PHP and a number of other languages Jun 27 13:55:42 Just not Python Jun 27 13:55:53 I did a little bit of Ruby once Jun 27 13:55:58 a long time ago Jun 27 13:58:59 when I run git clone I see Jun 27 13:59:02 git: 'remote-curl' is not a git-command. See 'git --help'. Jun 27 13:59:10 how to fix in N900? Jun 27 14:02:29 SpeedEvil: to access the modem for at command what do u use ? Jun 27 14:06:12 pnatd, alas I fail to figure any sane qay to quit it or use it scripted. echo at|pnatd; no dice Jun 27 14:06:39 ok Jun 27 14:06:45 i had a script that worked fine Jun 27 14:06:48 let me check Jun 27 14:07:57 i found some sms.py for n900 Jun 27 14:10:01 DocScrutinizer: Columbus disables it when you enable USB serial streaming. Jun 27 14:10:38 DocScrutinizer: it takes as it's first paramter (iirc) a serial IO device, you could make a psuedo serial device to launch it against. Jun 27 14:10:46 Jun 27 14:10:49 let me grab a link Jun 27 14:12:44 alterego: nice Jun 27 14:13:29 DocScrutinizer: you may also want to look at the FOSS matd project ;) Jun 27 14:13:39 Though that may be hard wired to ofono Jun 27 14:14:17 I'm still trying to understand why there is no Symbian or Series 40 backend in Qt5 Jun 27 14:14:23 Not even a mention of it ... Jun 27 14:14:27 * alterego ponders Jun 27 14:15:00 We still don't know what this "next billion" actually means .. Jun 27 14:15:59 bah, I wish there was more documentation for the relationship between the actual signal and the signal handler you pass to dbus_g_proxy_connect_signal Jun 27 14:16:13 i.e. what the signal handler should look like given the details for the signal Jun 27 14:16:18 DocScrutinizer: http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/Phone_call_and_SMS_examples Jun 27 14:16:33 why doesn't this thing have a flesh port? Jun 27 14:16:39 It is so sexy I want to bang it Jun 27 14:17:10 internetishard, nice. Jun 27 14:17:11 Why doesn't it have a flesh torch .. Jun 27 14:17:25 Or is that the same thing? Jun 27 14:17:39 mine is more like a fleshlight Jun 27 14:17:49 except open source Jun 27 14:18:35 I like how the N950 has "developer edition" plastered all over it :D Jun 27 14:19:23 gotta reboot, bbl Jun 27 14:19:42 alterego: Yes, despite all the "don't you know what this means?!" they haven't *actually* said that Qt will be on S40. Jun 27 14:20:07 Jaffa: it's interesting isn't it :) Jun 27 14:20:11 alterego: So every time someone says "you're underestimating 'Qt being core to the next billion'" I feel like saying, "how, exactly" Jun 27 14:20:13 wtf, how do I get a skype IM from some spammer who isn't on my contacts list Jun 27 14:20:21 internetishard: Yeah, I get that too Jun 27 14:20:29 really? okay, I felt violated Jun 27 14:20:46 Jaffa: maybe they mean LG and Samsung using MeeGo on handsets ;) Jun 27 14:21:24 alterego: :) Jun 27 14:21:35 alterego: Maybe they mean they're going to rebrand Harmattan as "S42" ;-) Jun 27 14:22:39 Jaffa: I hope so Jun 27 14:22:59 let's make our own Jun 27 14:23:00 :> Jun 27 14:23:20 Jaffa: but then, who knows, the fact they announced an S40 device with a 1GHz processor is indicative of some movement into a more capable environment for Qt I would imagine. Jun 27 14:23:24 we could evven build in a chick magnet Jun 27 14:23:49 internetishard: That's easy, just display a webpage for a shoe shop on the screen .. Jun 27 14:24:06 ug Jun 27 14:24:13 ^^this man has experience with women Jun 27 14:24:54 S40 doesn't run QT? Jun 27 14:25:11 Nope, not yet Jun 27 14:25:41 * javispedro is in love with the Harmattan iphone-style installs Jun 27 14:25:52 very very nice. Jun 27 14:26:02 javispedro, what does mean iphone-style installs? Jun 27 14:26:17 in the launcher Jun 27 14:26:37 installing feedback appears on the launcher, uninstallations can be started from the launcher app Jun 27 14:26:52 hmm Jun 27 14:28:26 javispedro: I'm nervous about what it means for community apps with regards to visibility; but the UX is nice, certainly Jun 27 14:28:34 Finding decent documentation on dbus-glib is hard :( Jun 27 14:28:58 Jaffa: http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/harmattansdk/installdownloading.png Jun 27 14:29:05 http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/harmattansdk/installuninstall.png Jun 27 14:29:15 javispedro: Nice Jun 27 14:29:40 I gather it is all done via browser on harmattan Jun 27 14:29:41 javispedro: Does Harmattan scratchbox live nicely alongside/in Fremantle SDK? Jun 27 14:29:48 javispedro: Yeah, which doesn't sound goo Jun 27 14:29:54 dunno. Jun 27 14:30:04 anything is better than ham. Jun 27 14:30:05 javispedro: or Store client Jun 27 14:30:06 as far as I know yes Harmattan and Fremantle can live side by side Jun 27 14:30:27 yes, they should be able to, and here I don't have any problems. Jun 27 14:30:32 Jaffa: both targets work for me. Jun 27 14:30:49 Jaffa: also a web frontend might induce users to leave feedback. Jun 27 14:30:53 alterego: Just followed the Harmattan Platform SDK install instructions and it happily updated /scratchbox? Jun 27 14:30:55 Jaffa: see iphone store(s). Jun 27 14:31:11 Jaffa: yup Jun 27 14:31:20 Nokia Developer Newsletter: Ovi Store tops 6 million daily downloads Jun 27 14:31:32 * ShadowJK wonders if it handles dependencies at all ;p Jun 27 14:31:35 The future of Qt: Bringing apps to the next billion Jun 27 14:31:44 javispedro: There's only one; and I dunno if I can be bothered with the Ovi hassle Jun 27 14:31:49 So do we know if the N9 has the nice openness of the N900 or is it closed like the iPhone? Jun 27 14:31:56 alterego: Cool. Now all I need is some disk space. Jun 27 14:31:57 How to request the Nokia N950 developer kit ;-P Jun 27 14:32:14 DocScrutinizer: Yup Jun 27 14:32:24 ShadowJK: behind the scenes is your old friendly neighborhood apt-get Jun 27 14:32:29 *neighbor Jun 27 14:32:48 javispedro: Discussion about third party repos at http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3671 Jun 27 14:33:01 Jaffa: what do you mean by "there's only one"? Jun 27 14:33:08 javispedro: iPhone Store Jun 27 14:33:25 ah well, there are a few more ones... Jun 27 14:33:30 you know the idea =) Jun 27 14:33:58 either way the point is that imo a good way to promote feedback is to put a comments form in the same webpage where the user downloaded the app Jun 27 14:34:20 that's the way the iphone does it, that's the way my father did, that's the way america does it... and it served apple pretty well so far. Jun 27 14:34:58 I prefer that more to "surprises" when the user hits the uninstalll app icon Jun 27 14:36:18 javispedro: Oh, agreed. And "give feedback on uninstall" never captures the feedback from the people who love the app and keep it! Jun 27 14:37:15 so, I'm fine with the main community distribution method being a webpage, if we can manage to set it up, of course. Jun 27 14:37:34 Jaffa: btw, finished that accounts management system I told you about before SF Jun 27 14:37:43 Customer is very pleased with it, and it's working quite well for them so far :) Jun 27 14:37:46 normally when I remove an application I want to get rid of it not fill out a survey why I don't like it Jun 27 14:38:08 Jaffa: Might work on productising it and refactoring it to be a bit more generic for more adhoc solutions :) Jun 27 14:38:40 alterego: Cool Jun 27 14:38:59 javispedro: ...and the security framework means that apps from web pages aren't entirely locked down (which, I think, they should be) Jun 27 14:39:25 javispedro: Whereas a repo (e.g. a .install file from a browser) could point to a repo which is signed and has some permissions granted to it. Jun 27 14:39:40 javispedro: Remember all that stuff Aegis does about permissions & repositories from Amsterdam... Jun 27 14:39:47 i'm thinking the latter option (.install file) Jun 27 14:40:01 cause for updates, etc. we still need repo Jun 27 14:40:06 * Jaffa nods Jun 27 14:40:14 note: updates are also signaled in launcher, or at least that's what the code says (couldn't get it to work) Jun 27 14:40:33 A web page can be iterated and developed and distributed more quickly than an app Jun 27 14:40:40 The app can just embed it or launch it Jun 27 14:41:11 javispedro: there is no .install file support anymore. Jun 27 14:41:43 X-Fade: Ovi has its own client then? Jun 27 14:42:01 So how does this security thing work Jun 27 14:42:02 javispedro: yes. Jun 27 14:42:06 :( Jun 27 14:42:12 like, can you do a USB OTG Kernel with ntfs support? :P Jun 27 14:42:45 javispedro: That is why we need an app, coming from a trusted source afaik. Jun 27 14:43:08 how aegis works from the user PoV is still a mistery to me. Jun 27 14:43:25 X-Fade: Who's that trusted source going to be, though? Jun 27 14:43:38 I know that packages declare the device resources they need access to, but I don't know how the UI reacts if you install a package that, let's say, wants to access everything. Jun 27 14:43:42 aegis *shivers* Jun 27 14:43:43 Yeah - the big question isn't aegis - it's how it's actually done. Jun 27 14:43:51 Jaffa: Like I said, the nokia apps one is probably the easiest. Otherwise ovi? Jun 27 14:44:05 X-Fade: But how does a user install something from Nokia Apps? Jun 27 14:44:27 So if I want to have the benfits of running in Closed Mode, I can't make any of my own apps that does anything non-trivial? Jun 27 14:44:29 Jaffa: I guess we would need an installer deb :) Jun 27 14:44:38 X-Fade: Which is a bit of a catch-22, no? Jun 27 14:45:02 Jaffa: But let's see when dev device becomes available. Then you can test. Jun 27 14:45:03 Unless an unsigned, untrusted app can install things from trusted sources Jun 27 14:45:25 X-Fade: Aye. Jun 27 14:46:01 Jaffa: It is summer, go outside and enjoy the nice weather. Drink a cold beer :D Jun 27 14:46:07 bah Jun 27 14:46:13 Well how the hell as I as a user supposed to figure out if it's locked to unusableness or not :( Jun 27 14:46:18 X-Fade: Some of us don't have Noridc holidays. Jun 27 14:46:26 X-Fade: I'm at work for four more weeks, then I get two weeks off Jun 27 14:46:34 Jaffa: Call it end of the work day and go outside? :) Jun 27 14:46:36 ShadowJK: You wait for us to find out and tell you Jun 27 14:46:40 nice weather is like a bane here Jun 27 14:46:42 X-Fade: Not an option Jun 27 14:47:04 X-Fade: Besides, if I'm not at work, I'm doing *more* with Maemo/MeeGo/Harmattan, not less! Jun 27 14:47:11 Jaffa++ Jun 27 14:47:13 Jaffa, maybe I could harass Nokia Care and record what they tell me so I can return it when it doen't do what they said it'll do :P Jun 27 14:47:18 Jaffa: I thought you had enough magic powers to get that done? :) Jun 27 14:47:59 Anyway, there is an option in settings where you can say 'allow apps from untrusted sources' afaik. Jun 27 14:48:07 Like Android Jun 27 14:48:35 and, what does it do? there's no gui to add new repos Jun 27 14:48:44 and if there's no .install support... Jun 27 14:48:51 chicken and egg problem Jun 27 14:48:55 or catch-22 as Jaffa said. Jun 27 14:48:56 javispedro: You click on debs. Jun 27 14:49:10 X-Fade, missing dependency handling then? :-) Jun 27 14:49:15 what about getting root and adding a repo Jun 27 14:49:17 * javispedro face falls Jun 27 14:49:21 javispedro: So, have a nice website with deb links. (Which we intend to add in MeeGo Apps) Jun 27 14:49:32 ShadowJK: Dependencies are easy. Jun 27 14:49:37 if the repo is added :) Jun 27 14:49:49 and, can we add the repo via a .deb? =) Jun 27 14:50:03 Ahd of course that is what the installer app should do. Jun 27 14:50:11 Maybe a repo editor shows up when you enable dev mode? (no clue) Jun 27 14:50:16 For our apps client. Jun 27 14:50:42 or we register an url handler =) Jun 27 14:50:46 X-Fade, so you have one deb which contains some magic sed scripts to add the repo, and then a second click to install the actual program? Jun 27 14:50:53 an _install:_ url handler ;) Jun 27 14:51:11 ShadowJK: No, that can be a postinstall for the App client itself? Jun 27 14:51:58 javispedro: +1 Jun 27 14:52:06 Seems like easiest thing for a linux user would be to get root and then use apt-get? Jun 27 14:52:12 If you even can get root.. Jun 27 14:52:34 ShadowJK: that .004% of users that get that can use that too of course. Jun 27 14:52:51 X-Fade: But I doubt "allow apps from untrusted sources" will be available in closed mode, and carriers may restrict to closed mode only. Which, if true, will mean I won't want to use apps.meego.com to reach the majority of users :-( Jun 27 14:52:55 But a nice client helps :) Jun 27 14:53:28 ShadowJK: also, I'm not sure if apps installed via apt-get will be uninstallable from launcher Jun 27 14:53:40 (meaning, you either use settings package manager -- if it exists -- or apt-get uninstall) Jun 27 14:53:50 is that "closed mode" a signature dependent thing? Jun 27 14:54:06 Jaffa: I think this open mode is something else then developer mode. Jun 27 14:54:48 X-Fade: More stuff to investigate Jun 27 14:54:55 * javispedro needs to commute, cya. Jun 27 14:55:13 I never buy carrier locked phones anyway, so it doesn't bother me Jun 27 14:55:42 Choom: Neither do I anymore, but as an application developer it worries me. Jun 27 14:55:51 plus I can perfectly understand the decision of app provider lockdown Jun 27 14:56:09 or lock-in Jun 27 14:56:23 Ditto. But that doesn't mean I don't want to understand the ramifications. Jun 27 14:56:45 If only people in open mode will be able to use my app, I'll use apps.meego.com for MeeGo 1.2 CE and Ovi for Harmattan. Jun 27 14:57:10 I haven't seen any indications that this will be limited. Jun 27 14:57:39 for nokia's own sake it better be Jun 27 14:57:52 50% of apple's profit comes from the iphone Jun 27 14:58:06 I doubt nokia would pass on the opportunity to tap into something like that Jun 27 14:58:16 Choom: ? Jun 27 14:58:27 X-Fade: "this"? Jun 27 14:58:43 Jaffa: Install from one source only. Jun 27 14:58:46 X-Fade: Installing arbitrary debs with the power to do anything is *exactly* what Aegis is designed to prevent Jun 27 14:58:57 by forcing people to distribute over ovi store they encourage users to use it, and potentially, developers to charge for apps, which in turn results in profit for nokia Jun 27 14:59:14 Jaffa: Mostly for replacing system things. Jun 27 14:59:33 Choom, half of Apple's *revenue* comes from the iPhone sales (not applications, and *not* profit) Jun 27 15:00:12 qgil said a "third party" could provide Korean support. I wonder how that is done if you can't replace system things :-) Jun 27 15:00:28 I thought that figure also included the app store Jun 27 15:00:30 LOL Jun 27 15:00:57 ShadowJK: There are defined extension points Jun 27 15:01:06 ShadowJK: It's called a plugin :) Jun 27 15:01:16 Well that'd be a first Jun 27 15:01:30 ShadowJK: Nah, locales have always been that way. Jun 27 15:02:12 dbus_g_proxy_connect_signal is an extremely annoying API :P Jun 27 15:02:12 Well you need input too, fonts, and configuring fontconfig so you don't get chinese or japanese... Jun 27 15:02:33 ShadowJK: Input methods have always had support for plugins. Jun 27 15:04:24 How about subtitle support in video? :-) Jun 27 15:06:08 11:51:46 < HRH_H_Crab> i have a slightly odd problem. All my audio files seem to be using an icon cached from somewhere. does anyone know how i can reset that behaviour? Jun 27 15:06:16 ^ anyone able to assist from that? Jun 27 15:06:42 the icon originated from metadata inside an mp3 but it now seems to be used for all mp3s (maybe flacs too) Jun 27 15:07:10 are those mp3s in the same folder? Jun 27 15:08:12 ShadowJK: yes Jun 27 15:08:27 but the original file that contained the icon is long gone. Jun 27 15:08:40 so it seems to have been cached somewhere mysterious. Jun 27 15:16:53 modest works again. Jun 27 15:17:14 anyone experienced trouble for upload/sharing picture to facebook? Jun 27 15:43:02 yes, the TOS fuck you over completely. Jun 27 15:51:02 * jonwil refuses to have a Facebook account for that very reason Jun 27 15:51:28 watching "the social network" made me even less likely to get one Jun 27 15:57:16 jonwil, you actually watched it? Jun 27 15:57:29 yes I did Jun 27 15:57:33 went to the cinema to see it Jun 27 15:57:38 wasnt that bad actually Jun 27 15:57:46 Yeah, it was okay .. Jun 27 15:57:56 I watched it a couple of weeks ago actually. Jun 27 15:58:06 * ruskie is happy he doesn't watch movies in general Jun 27 15:58:49 Pfft, movies are a great way to unwind :P Jun 27 15:59:01 anime, tv shows and watching game playthroughs for me ;) Jun 27 15:59:16 now that sounds boring :P~ Jun 27 15:59:17 besides actually playing games Jun 27 16:00:06 http://www.youtube.com/DSPGaming <-- I tend to watch this guys playthroughs ;) Jun 27 16:01:38 but then I always enjoyed watching people play games Jun 27 16:17:41 probably not very different from watching a football or baseball match in TV :-P Jun 27 16:17:56 probably for some people Jun 27 16:33:50 the freemans mind "playthroughs" are great Jun 27 16:34:02 * divan tired of people which tell that Maemo/Meego is dead because it's open-source and no company pushes it. I've heard enough exactly the same words 10 years ago about Linux in general. Jun 27 16:34:07 DocScrutinizer: (massive lag) you used to be able to remove modest - in PR1.1? times. Jun 27 16:34:23 * SpeedEvil is reading backscroll Jun 27 16:34:39 * ruskie is wondering when someone will make a good mail client for maemo Jun 27 16:38:11 ruskie: what's maemo? :P Jun 27 16:38:57 ruskie: the best i have seen is kmail (touch) Jun 27 16:39:02 alterego, or port something usable from meego if there is... Jun 27 16:39:17 ruskie: not used the mail client :/ Jun 27 16:39:32 in meego ce .. Jun 27 16:39:56 strohhalm, where can one get that? Jun 27 16:40:27 its included in kdepim-mobile or so Jun 27 16:41:01 http://userbase.kde.org/Kontact_Touch/Maemo5 Jun 27 16:41:36 thanks Jun 27 16:41:44 np Jun 27 16:42:09 qt have some bugs, (3month ago) but all in all its usable Jun 27 16:43:05 does it integrate with the maemo address book and stuff? Jun 27 16:45:01 i use Modest (I guess? whatever the default is) and it works alright for my non-complicated needs (a couple Gmail accounts and one personal IMAP server account_ Jun 27 16:45:02 ) Jun 27 16:47:49 ruskie: no, have its own pim stuff :( Jun 27 16:48:05 :( Jun 27 16:48:18 had not the time to look how to integrate Jun 27 16:48:25 but it can gpg/smime Jun 27 16:48:39 threads in mail and such stuff Jun 27 16:48:48 Hm is the n900 cpu temp anywhere readable? Jun 27 17:01:04 hi Jun 27 17:01:27 does sharing/upload pictures to facebook works on your side ? Jun 27 17:01:28 :) Jun 27 17:02:42 or am the only one to get account error? Jun 27 17:05:37 Moo? Jun 27 17:06:35 :) Jun 27 17:11:32 nikkk0, sociality will have photo uploads in the next version Jun 27 17:11:42 merlin1991: no, as there's no working sensor in silicon Jun 27 17:11:45 either wait for it or build the latest version from git Jun 27 17:12:10 merlin1991, desoler the cpu, make a hole, solder it back, plug a thermometer inside Jun 27 17:12:31 lol :P Jun 27 17:12:55 MohammadAG: :-D Jun 27 17:13:27 MohammadAG: Is it a way to say sharing + facebook didnt work for long time ? Jun 27 17:13:51 can give a look @ git Jun 27 17:14:03 merlin1991: why would you want to now cpu temperature anyway? Jun 27 17:14:11 know* Jun 27 17:14:18 so that he couldy fry eggs on it ;) Jun 27 17:14:20 DocScrutinizer: curious? Jun 27 17:15:24 nikkk0, it works for me (built in plugin) Jun 27 17:15:31 Well I like to check cpu temps when I do insane things Jun 27 17:15:41 merlin1991: well, there's something in sysfs, but it's kinda off, broken, and rather unclear what's the actual meaning of the sensor at all. Just for curiosity it will work almost as good as /dev/random does Jun 27 17:15:59 MohammadAG: ok :/ then i'm damned again heh Jun 27 17:17:02 nikkk0, delete the account and remake it Jun 27 17:17:28 MohammadAG: i wish i could :D Jun 27 17:17:34 but i cant even add one ! Jun 27 17:17:58 cat /sys/devices/platform/omap34xx_temp/temp1_input Jun 27 17:18:00 im stuck in the sharing parameters trying to add my own l/p then it tells account error ... Jun 27 17:18:33 sometimes you can get a reading that might kinda rightish Jun 27 17:19:05 sometimes you get an obviously locked never changing value Jun 27 17:19:13 sometimes you get mere random Jun 27 17:19:14 nikkk0: how recently have you updated your system? Jun 27 17:19:16 hmm 38... that could remotely be the right temp Jun 27 17:19:29 rm_work: last week? Jun 27 17:19:41 http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2011/06/will-the-real-stephen-elop-please-stand-up.html Jun 27 17:19:53 there was a bug for a while where the newer facebook integration plugin wouldn't actually update from the GUI updater, you need to go into a console and do apt-get update && apt-get upgrade Jun 27 17:19:55 probably just dramatic bullshit though Jun 27 17:20:01 still, amusing Jun 27 17:20:29 nikkk0: if it lists anything that looks like it might be related, install the update from the console with apt, and reboot Jun 27 17:20:49 but that was a bug quite a while ago, not sure if it is still a problem Jun 27 17:21:05 and moo, rm_me Jun 27 17:21:10 yo RST38h Jun 27 17:21:25 hmm i should be up2date Jun 27 17:21:34 installed/reinstalled *fb* many times Jun 27 17:21:44 just check Jun 27 17:21:47 ok last step is to sniff traffic Jun 27 17:21:55 see what goes on Jun 27 17:22:00 console apt != HAM Jun 27 17:22:09 srsly Jun 27 17:23:23 yeah u ment apt right? Jun 27 17:23:39 thats what i did Jun 27 17:23:48 also tried last ver from ovistore Jun 27 17:23:54 k Jun 27 17:23:55 lets try Jun 27 17:24:12 otherwise, no problems here with current default facebook integration Jun 27 17:24:19 at least last time i checked, can try again Jun 27 17:25:06 :) Jun 27 17:25:18 well if u have time and dont mind pls Jun 27 17:25:35 testing Jun 27 17:25:52 looks to be working Jun 27 17:25:55 is uploading now Jun 27 17:26:09 ok thanks for confirmation Jun 27 17:26:10 :) Jun 27 17:26:22 yep, sent Jun 27 17:27:27 i think it's feedservice-plugin-fb ? Jun 27 17:27:36 can be Jun 27 17:27:41 lets try to reinstall it Jun 27 17:27:48 or -common Jun 27 17:28:13 or sharing-service-facebook or rtcom-accounts-plugin-facebook Jun 27 17:28:24 heh theres so many :p Jun 27 17:28:27 yeah Jun 27 17:28:36 rtcom maybe if you're having problems just with account setup Jun 27 17:28:46 merlin1991: anyway you must *not* rely on the readings from that cpu temp thing for any purposes like e.g. overclocking or other nonsense, as it's not really the max temp of the CPU's hotspots Jun 27 17:28:57 even when it seems to work Jun 27 17:29:38 merlin1991: The temp sensor in the omap is deprecated. Jun 27 17:29:46 It doesn't work on many/most devices. Jun 27 17:29:52 It may have worked on old silicon. Jun 27 17:29:57 DocScrutinizer: I'm not even thinking about oc Jun 27 17:31:04 wait Jun 27 17:31:22 if there's no temp sensor in the hardware, how does it have a temp sensor that's even SLIGHTLY accurate? Jun 27 17:31:29 does it try to guess somehow? Jun 27 17:31:31 There is a temperature sensor. Jun 27 17:31:41 It doesn't work properly, so the makers have said don't use. Jun 27 17:32:03 oh, gotcha, i guess he did say "no WORKING sensor" Jun 27 17:32:18 obody said there's none. I said there's not really any Jun 27 17:32:22 so there is a sensor in all of the boards, it just doesn't work. awesome >_> Jun 27 17:32:24 hmm same error Jun 27 17:32:32 ok lets sniff Jun 27 17:32:37 There is a sensor on all of the battery monitoring chips which works. Jun 27 17:32:42 But it's not very close to the CPU Jun 27 17:32:51 Probably also one in the cellmo and GPS. Jun 27 17:32:57 Compal will produce first Nokia WP7 phone Jun 27 17:32:58 lol Jun 27 17:33:01 heh Jun 27 17:33:06 [2011-06-27 19:08:54] merlin1991: no, as there's no working sensor in silicon Jun 27 17:33:09 and THOSE work. but not the CPU sensor (the one that matters)? Jun 27 17:33:14 wireshark start faster on my n900 than on my laptop :) Jun 27 17:33:14 remember how I said that wp7 phone will bre a relabelled HTC? ;) Jun 27 17:33:24 DocScrutinizer: yeah, as i said, i misread :P Jun 27 17:33:29 The CPU temperature should not matter, as you can't cause it to get hot enough to matter Jun 27 17:33:32 In principle. Jun 27 17:34:37 yeah and i guess there isn't much you could do if it did get hot besides shut it off or underclock it.... as there is no fan speed to control Jun 27 17:34:54 if you could, then the design were flawed Jun 27 17:35:58 so it query api.facebook.com do the tls handshake Jun 27 17:36:09 then heh im blind Jun 27 17:37:34 RST38h: The sad thing is many of those statements actually are consistent with each other. Jun 27 17:38:16 How does one find out about the status of Nokia developer launchpad application? Sent in application but haven't seen any response or acknowledgement that it was even received... Jun 27 17:39:11 npw : and you can't edit Jun 27 17:39:16 and pressing return have validate my forms Jun 27 17:39:19 derf: yes, that is why the article is mostly bullshit Jun 27 17:39:31 so one line of stupid description Jun 27 17:39:35 i ll not got it :( Jun 27 17:39:39 derf:the guy's butt is hurting so he is reading toomuch into things Jun 27 17:41:35 Khertan__: you should probably have signed up via the meego site, not via launchpad, no? Jun 27 17:41:50 Khertan__: launchpad was for commercial developers and such I thought, according to qgil Jun 27 17:42:12 Khertan__: OSS devs were expected to sign up via meego device program Jun 27 17:42:18 which is editable Jun 27 17:42:21 :) Jun 27 17:42:26 and only has 250 devices Jun 27 17:42:38 truth Jun 27 17:42:51 sooooooo nevermind, too bad, guess you missed out T_T Jun 27 17:43:06 Deadline is tomorrow. Jun 27 17:43:10 is it? Jun 27 17:43:12 lol Jun 27 17:43:21 wonder how many applications they have so far Jun 27 17:43:29 did anyone post an estimate? Jun 27 17:43:38 like 4000? Jun 27 17:43:46 400 a couple days ago Jun 27 17:43:49 probably over 500 by now. Jun 27 17:43:54 500 isn't bad Jun 27 17:44:04 probably quite a few of those will be trivial to sort out Jun 27 17:44:26 i wonder how many legitimate requests there are Jun 27 17:44:56 i suppose it's possible there are actually 300-400 legit :/ which would be unfortunate Jun 27 17:45:17 i want to try to do something like lcuk's sketch for brightness changing Jun 27 17:45:27 and i never got scheduling implemented Jun 27 17:45:58 * GeneralAntilles sighs at MeeGo.com's broken freaking login setup. Jun 27 17:46:13 thinking something fairly simple, like "at 8:15pm, switch to brightness 30" and "at 9:30am switch to brightness 127" Jun 27 17:46:23 what is broken about it? Jun 27 17:46:26 Do it with ALS input, though. Jun 27 17:46:32 I'm logged in at the main site Jun 27 17:46:35 is it usabke? Jun 27 17:46:41 usable Jun 27 17:46:42 but not logged in on the wiki/forum/bugzilla/whatever Jun 27 17:46:45 ALS? Jun 27 17:46:47 so you have to logout at the main site Jun 27 17:46:51 and log back in for them to work. Jun 27 17:46:55 Ambient Light Sensor Jun 27 17:46:58 also, can't the builtin light sensor logic handle the same use case? Jun 27 17:46:58 lol Jun 27 17:47:01 yeah Jun 27 17:47:02 So, rather than specifying specific levels. Jun 27 17:47:10 maybe an option Jun 27 17:47:17 "Switch to Low at sunset, Switch to High at sunrise" Jun 27 17:47:22 erm Jun 27 17:47:36 except that would probably just be really annoying Jun 27 17:47:52 as it switches the brightness all over the place when you cover bits with your hand, etc Jun 27 17:47:55 but maybe Jun 27 17:48:11 i mean, unless it is REALLY dark, i like my device to be at 127 Jun 27 17:48:24 but i can always give the option Jun 27 17:48:25 so Jun 27 17:48:27 I generally find the ALS useful. Jun 27 17:49:21 trigger: "Time" and select a time value, or "Light Sensor" and select "becomes greater than" and a value, or "becomes less than" and a value Jun 27 17:49:30 result: select a brightness value Jun 27 17:49:34 easy enough Jun 27 17:49:37 [19:41] rm_work i signed for both : if i got one from launchpad i ll be for doing commercial appn[19:41] if i got one from meego it ll be for doing foss apps Jun 27 17:49:41 i have a basic idea of the UI Jun 27 17:49:48 but if you want to sketch one :P Jun 27 17:50:01 Khertan_n900: ah Jun 27 18:02:28 xah god Jun 27 18:02:32 worked Jun 27 18:02:54 fbook share account created :p Jun 27 18:06:14 uploading a pix Jun 27 18:08:11 ah rox Jun 27 18:08:16 :) Jun 27 18:13:40 hmm someone should borrow the kmail-mobile UI and graft it on something like a mobile claws-mail Jun 27 18:16:00 test Jun 27 18:16:13 eeeeeccc... error... test failed! Jun 27 18:16:23 :) Jun 27 18:19:03 it ll be time to replace my n900 Jun 27 18:19:04 it ll be time to replace my n900 Jun 27 18:19:13 why Jun 27 18:19:30 hi n900 people Jun 27 18:19:50 anything new and exciting for n900 Jun 27 18:19:54 ? Jun 27 18:19:55 screen sensibility is broken on half of the screen, battery is dying ... and usb failed to charge or being detected by computer Jun 27 18:20:15 :( Jun 27 18:20:53 yep Jun 27 18:21:01 is there anything amazing to install as a widget thats requires no editing? Jun 27 18:21:12 something to show off Jun 27 18:22:51 nikkk0: what fixed it Jun 27 18:23:49 pauly_: gas-balls or something like that is supposedly cool Jun 27 18:41:22 nikkk0: what fixed it Jun 27 18:46:52 I'm such an idiot. Jun 27 18:46:58 I just rm -r in /opt Jun 27 18:47:00 :| Jun 27 18:47:44 C-S-B: I have done that too, more than once :P Jun 27 18:48:11 anyway to get that back without a flash? Jun 27 18:49:10 rm_work, up for another video viral marketing campaign for the N9? Jun 27 18:52:09 GeneralAntilles: lol, sure, sup? Jun 27 18:52:36 rm_work, I'm thinking that given Elop's doing everything in his power to chop the N9 off at the knees. Jun 27 18:52:47 Our response should be some community-sourced marketing. Jun 27 18:53:02 hrm Jun 27 18:53:06 that'd actually be really cool\ Jun 27 18:53:25 though part of me thinks that even if it did really well they wouldn't acknowlege it as the cause Jun 27 18:53:28 and would still be dumb Jun 27 18:53:31 but whatever Jun 27 18:53:34 it could be worth a shot Jun 27 18:53:36 Counter Elop Jun 27 18:53:45 Counter Intel's cohort of fools Jun 27 18:54:01 General: Wrong Jun 27 18:54:02 The blogosphere seems to be behind the N9 Jun 27 18:54:13 so we'd need a good idea Jun 27 18:54:14 General: You can'tmarket something Nokia will refuse to produce or support Jun 27 18:54:21 Want a better idea? Jun 27 18:54:28 Kill ourselves. Jun 27 18:54:43 No Jun 27 18:54:45 GeneralAntilles: I'd be up for at least trying Jun 27 18:54:57 Do our own UI based on QML Jun 27 18:55:19 RST38h, there's the other half Jun 27 18:55:25 Run it on top of Meego, on some generic non-Nokia hw used to run Android Jun 27 18:55:33 Early CSSU-type work Jun 27 18:58:35 Making sure I'm building in i18n support into the new Columbus UX from the start .. Jun 27 19:10:14 rm_work: ( trigger: "Time" and select a time value, or "Light Sensor" and select "becomes greater than" and ) check out dwimd app Jun 27 19:15:18 GAN900: I suggested some similar campaign a few days ago: step one: council declares free mameo/meego >>WE WILL SUPPORT IT, EVEN IF ELOP SENDS HIS KILLERS" Jun 27 19:15:35 *WE* are MEEGO Jun 27 19:16:10 and we will bring meego on every goddamn winp7 device Nokia dares to rollout Jun 27 19:16:18 we who? Jun 27 19:16:28 doesn't matter Jun 27 19:16:45 Anon :P Jun 27 19:16:59 do you remember what happened to that OS that was in just one device? Jun 27 19:17:05 hint: it starts with M and ends with aemo Jun 27 19:17:08 the less Elp can target a specific group, the more into the blue are his evil shots aginst meego Jun 27 19:17:46 if Meego doesn't start appearing in several devices (Nokia or not) then it's dead already Jun 27 19:18:08 but one thing happened in these past last days Jun 27 19:18:16 stock markets appreciated N9, users appreciated it. Now Trollop said "we won't continue even if it would succeed" Jun 27 19:18:28 normal people (not geek) started to pay more attention to the N9 than a possible Windows Nokia phone. Jun 27 19:18:32 exactly Jun 27 19:18:34 that's my point Jun 27 19:18:38 but Elop seems to ignore that Jun 27 19:18:47 we can counteract it by explaining WE *will* continue on meego Jun 27 19:19:08 how can a DECENT board of directors of a DECENT company allow such comments like "I will abandon it even if it make us billionaires" Jun 27 19:20:17 he's got nothing to lose, his M$ portfolio is ~3.5nio$ I heard Jun 27 19:20:42 He dumped it in favour of nokia stock reportedly Jun 27 19:20:44 and *Nokia asked him* to do that job aiui Jun 27 19:21:07 They did, they gave him a lot of money to get him on board, apparently .. Jun 27 19:21:08 haha Jun 27 19:21:27 Makes you wonder if there wasn't a (make it look like you're getting him on board, but when we do this deal we'll give you 8billion) Jun 27 19:22:47 * DocScrutinizer idly wonders if MWKN is worth a glance Jun 27 19:35:12 contrutzie perfecsii ;-) first time I seem to understand 2 words at least when watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8jH_apD2k Jun 27 19:37:35 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/27/microsoft_patent_android/ <-- another one bites the dust Jun 27 19:39:55 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/27/mission_impossible_mouse_attack/ <-- heh Jun 27 19:53:04 Somebody title my MeeGo and Harmattan thread. Jun 27 19:53:10 MeeGo and Harmattan: ... Jun 27 19:53:21 Something about making a confusing situation less so. Jun 27 19:56:56 MeeGo, MeegoCE, Harmattan, Maemo6, Swipe, Swype, Skype: Idiot's guide to confusing names Jun 27 19:58:22 Hehe Jun 27 19:59:52 GeneralAntilles: "MeeGo and Harmattan: Clearing a path" Jun 27 20:00:02 Nice. Jun 27 20:03:25 Did NeoPwn v2 ever get released? Jun 27 20:05:19 GeneralAntilles, MeeGo and Harmattan, the only reason contraception methods should be used Jun 27 20:05:34 gnié ? Jun 27 20:05:34 you have to admit, that's a good title Jun 27 20:05:58 WTF?! Qt Creator's stopped producing executables in the right place. Jun 27 20:06:26 Jaffa: does it produce executale before ? ... Jun 27 20:06:27 ;à Jun 27 20:06:31 :) Jun 27 20:09:58 * GeneralAntilles never considered sjgadsby the disappearancing type. http://twitter.com/#!/sjgadsby/status/85436690470150144 Jun 27 20:14:22 Khertan_n130: Seems to Jun 27 20:14:47 ;) Jun 27 20:16:39 "Does 'viral marketing campaign for the N9' equal 'giving Elop swine flu'?" Jun 27 20:17:54 Jaffa: nice MWKN :-D Jun 27 20:18:08 DocScrutinizer, now go thumb it up on Planet. Jun 27 20:18:40 err, I have to think if I know what you're talking about Jun 27 20:19:01 planet.maemo.org Jun 27 20:19:07 How do you upvote posts on planet.meego.com? Jun 27 20:19:27 me? Jun 27 20:20:00 DocScrutinizer, yes, go to planet.maemo.org and click the thumbs up next to the mwkn post. :P Jun 27 20:20:01 planet.x.y sounds to me like tle little bitching sister of tmo Jun 27 20:20:40 well, I'll give it a try Jun 27 20:20:41 It's a news/blog aggregator. Jun 27 20:20:54 don't think I ever visited that URL Jun 27 20:20:56 mwkn sans the commentary and editorial interference. Jun 27 20:21:15 i.e. basically useless Jun 27 20:21:27 Eh, it's good for the stuff we don't cover. Jun 27 20:21:37 and good to get it before we manage to get the issue out. ;) Jun 27 20:25:14 had a thing called planet.openmoko.org, same cruft Jun 27 20:25:45 plus I *had to log in* :-o No SSO? Jun 27 20:26:03 Promised for years Jun 27 20:26:06 never resulted in much Jun 27 20:26:31 anyway, voted, done. KTNXBYE Jun 27 20:36:10 http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=23742 <- Jaffa Jun 27 20:41:03 GeneralAntilles: Cool Jun 27 20:41:53 So, tomorrow is the DDP deadline, I'm doing my part, are you? Jun 27 20:42:10 Jun 27 20:42:17 alterego: The end of today is the DDP deadline, presumably in either Finnish or Californian time ;-) Jun 27 20:42:20 alterego: :) Jun 27 20:42:37 "Find out how to fight the bugs with QML. " Jun 27 20:43:27 GeneralAntilles: Your sig's a bit out-dated on the forum Jun 27 20:43:29 Heh Jun 27 20:43:34 I've made some good prog Jun 27 20:43:47 progress with Columbus QML Ux :) Jun 27 20:44:09 Jaffa, goes to show how much I post there. Jun 27 20:44:15 Though I still have the cloak here, too. Jun 27 20:44:36 Just need to port a couple more widgets and the views are done, got translation support in from the get go this time, next stop is creating the UI menu system. Jun 27 20:45:10 alterego: Cool. I'm nearly done with Attitude's first pass - for Maemo 5, Harmattan and Symbian. Jun 27 20:45:13 what? but I am yet to fill my application!! Jun 27 20:45:18 Need to get spare N900 back for MeeGo CE testing Jun 27 20:45:19 oh, I did already =) Jun 27 20:45:38 Jaffa, hey Jun 27 20:46:00 * Jaffa is also *convinced* it'll be possible to use Qt Creator to transparently drive Scratchbox. Speed of native, but ease of IDE Jun 27 20:46:09 Jaffa, I seem to be suffering from a non working qemu. Is there a step I missed to get that thing running? Jun 27 20:46:21 Jaffa: Yeah, using QML will open Columbus up to Symbian, MeeGo, updated Maemo5 and Harmattan Jun 27 20:46:31 mece: Make sure that the Qt version is set to Qt SDK, rather than Platform Jun 27 20:46:44 Jaffa, ok.. checking Jun 27 20:46:50 Jaffa: I've read something about that on the blogosphere -- seemingly you can already do by just doing a few shell script wrappers Jun 27 20:47:00 (Qt Creator driving Sbox) Jun 27 20:47:02 Harmattan scratchbox sdk runs like scht on my machine :/ Jun 27 20:47:11 mece: http://www.johanpaul.com/blog/2011/06/what-is-the-developer-story-for-the-nokia-n9/#comment-235155185 Jun 27 20:47:11 Jaffa, it's "harmattan api platform Jun 27 20:47:13 The UX seems fine, but apps are horrible. Jun 27 20:47:40 javispedro: I read something on johanpaul.com but didn't seem to have everything wired up. If someone's already written the scripts, great! Jun 27 20:47:54 alterego: At least they start. On qemu, even with hardware GL, the UX is slow and the apps don't start. Jun 27 20:48:23 Lame :/ looks like I'll be having to wait to do on device testing, as always ... Jun 27 20:48:30 Yup Jun 27 20:48:37 apps don't start because applauncherd is down for some reason Jun 27 20:48:45 if it's happening to all of us, we need to file a bug Jun 27 20:48:45 Ah Jun 27 20:48:55 I thought it was due to my "manipulation" Jun 27 20:48:58 It's definitely affecting qemu, but it's difficult to know if that's the problem. Jun 27 20:49:07 Jaffa: just grep for applauncherd =) Jun 27 20:49:17 I mean, psax|grep applauncher Jun 27 20:49:21 javispedro: With what? No terminal ;-p Jun 27 20:49:29 mad remote shell iirc Jun 27 20:49:30 javispedro: ould add it to my postinst or something Jun 27 20:49:36 javispedro: Really? Hmm. Jun 27 20:49:48 'killall applauncherd' Jun 27 20:49:59 (wild guess) Jun 27 20:50:45 Where are the instructions for setting up qemu? Jun 27 20:50:54 note thought that trvially starting it up from 'user' didn't produce any output, and applications then failed with EPERM -- but then I didn't test any longer Jun 27 20:51:11 javispedro: did you tell me the other day that the scratchbox installer downloads the harmattan qemu rootfs? Jun 27 20:51:24 javispedro, I'm guessing qemu works in the same way as the armel target? Jun 27 20:51:25 alterego: not sbx, the other one. Jun 27 20:52:01 MohammadAG: quite different; what we understand by qemu in this context is system-qemu, which does complete emulation and runs a arm linux kernel Jun 27 20:52:08 hmm apparently qemu crashes .. Jun 27 20:52:31 MohammadAG: otoh, sbox armel target does just user emulation, the arm kernel is not executed at all, system calls are handled by your x86 kernel with some magic. Jun 27 20:52:52 so system-qemu is way more accurate, but also way more slow. Jun 27 20:52:53 Jaffa, what was the issues with attitude you have needed to tweak Jun 27 20:52:54 javispedro: the qt sdk? Jun 27 20:52:57 alterego: yep Jun 27 20:53:08 Oh, where does it stick that then? Jun 27 20:53:13 alterego: ensure you choose everything about harmattan in experimental options when installing Jun 27 20:53:28 Oh, I did :) Jun 27 20:53:33 alterego: on my box it shoved everything on /opt/QtSDK/Madde Jun 27 20:53:36 No wonder it took 2G :D Jun 27 20:53:54 lcuk: Being happy with the code structure; trying to auto-detect when Qt Quick Components is available (failed); getting rid of grey bar on Harmattan Jun 27 20:54:08 just run QtSDK/Madde/bin/mad remote -r rx71-harmattan-1122 poweron Jun 27 20:54:16 Jaffa, you have a greybar? Jun 27 20:54:25 hey lcuk, have I congratulated you already? :D Jun 27 20:54:30 lcuk: According to Quim. Jun 27 20:54:42 lcuk: Not sure I remember seeing it consistently in the SDK Jun 27 20:54:44 not sure javispedro there has been a flood of wellwishers :D Jun 27 20:54:54 it is amazing feeling actually Jun 27 20:55:31 javispedro: cool, thanks Jun 27 20:55:49 Jaffa's going toa greybar? Jun 27 20:56:22 alterego: For us old fogies to hang out and discuss cottaging in the Cotswalds Jun 27 20:56:27 s/walds/wolds/ Jun 27 20:56:28 Jaffa meant: alterego: For us old fogies to hang out and discuss cottaging in the Cotswolds Jun 27 20:56:42 Heh Jun 27 20:56:44 Jaffa, you need hair to go there Jun 27 20:56:46 lcuk: congratulations again :D! also Finlay is a great name :) Jun 27 20:56:48 Or the 770 days? Jun 27 20:56:54 lcuk: :-p Jun 27 20:56:55 javispedro, :D Jun 27 20:57:27 * Jaffa has noticed in a few of the N9 threads on forum.meego.com, e.g. the apps.meego.com one, that it's got that old feeling of talk.maemo.org/ITT back Jun 27 20:57:44 ah, this reminds me. Jun 27 20:57:58 I see there's a thread on TMO about creating N9 / N950 forums on TMO Jun 27 20:58:27 Eugh Jun 27 20:58:38 reggie said something that could be summed up as "why? meego.com contains fine handset forum already" Jun 27 20:58:42 now my question is. Jun 27 20:58:51 I have a gray bar in sociality too Jun 27 20:59:01 if I use showFullsScreen(), it's not there Jun 27 20:59:01 when the N9 is released, are you sure forum.meego.com will be capable of handling all of TMO's trolls? Jun 27 20:59:05 MohammadAG: Using MTF or Qt Quick Components? Jun 27 20:59:12 remember those drove Stskeeps away from TMO =) Jun 27 20:59:17 Jaffa, QWidgets Jun 27 20:59:23 javispedro: A year ago, the MeeGo Project said something like "not an end-user forum" Jun 27 20:59:25 where will he go when he's driven off f.m.o? =) Jun 27 20:59:34 javispedro, frankly I think that can be solved by more active moderator policing. Jun 27 20:59:48 Our problem at TMO was that we didn't account well for the influx of idiocy. Jun 27 20:59:54 well, when Maemo 5 came, Maemo and Moblin merged => MeeGo Jun 27 20:59:59 Jaffa, a year ago you said maemo would not be here :P Jun 27 21:00:09 or words to that effect Jun 27 21:00:14 Since it had always been the tree house hangout for fun and interesting people, it never needed (nor did we really want) much intervention from moderators. Jun 27 21:00:21 so when MeeGo/Harmattan comes, it'll merge with Android, so Stskeeps will have a new place to stay :p Jun 27 21:00:22 lcuk: I didn't; I said it depends what happens with MeeGo. And Harmattan was a year late :-p Jun 27 21:00:46 which window manager is harmattan running? Jun 27 21:01:03 tru Jaffa Jun 27 21:01:08 GeneralAntilles: have to agree there. Jun 27 21:01:21 lcuk: meegotough Jun 27 21:01:26 touch .. Jun 27 21:01:29 mcompositor technically Jun 27 21:01:33 meegotough sounds better Jun 27 21:01:37 abill_uk should've been banned the first week he registered. Jun 27 21:01:38 ruggedized version Jun 27 21:01:47 haha Jun 27 21:02:02 I'll try to reinstall the qemu bit and see if that helps.. Jun 27 21:02:30 If we can stomp out corruption quickly I think f.m.c will be just fine. Jun 27 21:02:46 GeneralAntilles, who's corrupted? Jun 27 21:02:59 mece, you. Are you ready for cleansing? Jun 27 21:03:07 GeneralAntilles: though I was thinking we could for once try a separate user vs developer forum Jun 27 21:03:24 but it might be too late already for f.m.c Jun 27 21:03:26 mece, the issue of TMO trolls potentially migrating to f.m.c Jun 27 21:03:27 javispedro: Separate how? Jun 27 21:03:42 * Jaffa would rather the sodding forum<->email bridge was finished. Jun 27 21:03:44 GeneralAntilles, haters gonna hate Jun 27 21:03:46 javispedro, Kathy might have some input there. :P Jun 27 21:03:55 I've avoided two strong swear words in that sentence Jun 27 21:04:07 heh Jun 27 21:04:25 OK, somebody explain paper.li to mee. Jun 27 21:04:31 It looks an awful lot like spam. Jun 27 21:04:49 GeneralAntilles, it aggregates the links in your feed Jun 27 21:04:49 hey, if I don't have a SIM inserted is there network related daemons I can disable? Jun 27 21:05:07 i.e. SMS-manager etc Jun 27 21:09:04 crashanddie, remember the thing we talked about once, did you ever get on with it? Jun 27 21:09:53 GeneralAntilles, Jaffa, trolls will be trolls, but perhaps we could have a developer area with very strict non-confrontational policies. User area has to be open imo. Jun 27 21:10:45 mece, open, definitely. Jun 27 21:10:59 But I think abuses of the forum goodwill need to be punished quickly and effectively. Jun 27 21:11:12 If you're posting all day about how everything and everyone involved in the project sux Jun 27 21:11:15 well, ban time. Jun 27 21:12:28 GeneralAntilles: you should target board members with you new campaign ;) Jun 27 21:12:55 If only we could get Nokia to say, keep producing fucking maemo handsets ... Jun 27 21:14:01 It's quite frustrating Jun 27 21:14:04 Yup Jun 27 21:14:07 GeneralAntilles, yep Jun 27 21:14:11 alterego, yep! Jun 27 21:14:14 Maybe it will be less so in 18-24 months time Jun 27 21:14:34 What would happen if Elop was to, /accidentally/ get involved in a car crash in some tunnel in france. Jun 27 21:14:51 GAAH!!! "Qemu finished with error: Exit code was 1." Jun 27 21:14:57 ok, that was funny. Jun 27 21:15:28 * mece gives up Jun 27 21:15:43 alterego, elton john would sing at his funderal? Jun 27 21:15:49 mece: hahah Jun 27 21:16:17 alterego: Would he be christened the Prince of (Dark) Hearts? Jun 27 21:16:37 Heh Jun 27 21:17:05 alterego, why france though? :P Jun 27 21:17:11 Seriously, we could arrange something for a lot less money than getting a company to do what we want ;) Jun 27 21:17:57 ahemm... aanyway Jun 27 21:20:33 asdf Jun 27 21:21:17 kk Jun 27 21:21:20 I know this guy, that'd make it look like an accident for about 5k EUR .. Jun 27 21:21:57 alterego, this channel is logged, just saying Jun 27 21:22:12 alterego: I'm sure he has on his will that after his death Nokia is to be sold to Nokla or similar Jun 27 21:22:20 before continuing this discussion, kick povbot :P Jun 27 21:22:21 alterego: so, forget. Jun 27 21:22:50 did I said sold? I meant given off as a present to Nokla. Jun 27 21:22:57 hm.. Jun 27 21:23:06 Heh Jun 27 21:23:09 dualsim... Jun 27 21:23:22 hm... interesting.... where's that accident thing you were mentioning? Jun 27 21:25:02 gary cole! Jun 27 21:25:31 I bet he already gets quite a lot of hate mail and, erm, probably death threats. Jun 27 21:25:50 #maemo -- conspiring against selop! Jun 27 21:26:02 set the topic Jun 27 21:26:08 Heh Jun 27 21:30:57 I hate that you can't have capital letters in your username on MeeGo.com Jun 27 21:32:26 GeneralAntilles, is there a bug for that? Jun 27 21:32:39 Dunno Jun 27 21:32:48 It's unlikely to be repairable now, though. Jun 27 21:32:57 usernames shouldn't have capital letters globally Jun 27 21:33:01 email address, unix accounts, etc Jun 27 21:33:38 Sc0rpius, then you should clearly s/Sc0rpius/sc0rpius/g Jun 27 21:33:40 Sc0rpius, true Jun 27 21:33:45 actually it's meego.com, it's just that your browser doesn't care if you type it MeeGo.com :P Jun 27 21:33:52 Um Jun 27 21:34:21 It's an old maemo.org branding thing. Jun 27 21:34:41 nicknames are like real names, they have to have capital letters Jun 27 21:34:47 but my username is in lowercase: Jun 27 21:34:54 [Sc0rpius] (~naikel@190.74.90.239): Hell was full, so I came back Jun 27 21:34:55 Thus my complaint. Jun 27 21:34:58 see? Jun 27 21:35:02 Sorry for the imprecise language. . . . Jun 27 21:35:02 username=naikel Jun 27 21:35:05 GeneralAntilles: what we need is a professional grade UX designer ... Jun 27 21:35:13 wazd Jun 27 21:35:15 timsamoff Jun 27 21:35:25 both need an n9 Jun 27 21:35:29 aSIMULAtor Jun 27 21:35:35 I need an N9 with keyboard Jun 27 21:36:17 alterego, for what? Jun 27 21:36:47 mece: nothing in particular right now. Jun 27 21:37:34 Just contemplating a new MeeGo UX, but I lack the, erm, experience to work on such a large design Jun 27 21:37:47 ANOTHER one Jun 27 21:38:01 Small UXs, no probs, a whole handset profile, well that's a rather larger endeavour. Jun 27 21:40:29 I hate that you can't have capital letters in your username on MeeGo.com Jun 27 21:40:29 the reason I opted for my old mohammad7410 nickname instead of mohammadag Jun 27 21:43:51 is it me being dumb or is the layout sizing stuff in qt really confusing? Jun 27 21:44:13 The former Jun 27 21:44:23 hhmmh Jun 27 21:44:23 oh Jun 27 21:44:29 Hah Jun 27 21:44:34 ok Jun 27 21:44:35 package sources are disappearing frm harmattan-dev repo Jun 27 21:44:45 quick mirror! Jun 27 21:44:46 get 'em FAST Jun 27 21:44:49 Or it's being updated ;) Jun 27 21:44:56 No, really, mirror them Jun 27 21:45:01 late Jun 27 21:45:10 http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/p/package-manager/package-manager_0.26.2+0m6.tar.gz no longer there Jun 27 21:45:15 With madman at the helm, there is no saying what will happen to them Jun 27 21:45:40 oh, this is bad Jun 27 21:45:45 only a few have disappeared. Jun 27 21:48:03 more like only one :( Jun 27 21:48:16 * javispedro curses Jun 27 21:48:28 ok, so I am left without source to read tonight. Jun 27 21:48:49 I can give you a random coredump of mine =) Jun 27 21:49:33 Meanwhile: "TSA employees at Logan International Airport believe they have identified a cancer cluster in their ranks" Jun 27 21:51:44 RST38h: but is it fun? Jun 27 21:52:10 javispedro: probablynot=( Jun 27 21:55:17 javispedro, just like with maemo4 and maemo5, good stuff vanishing :) Jun 27 21:55:53 Hmm, according to twitter, MeeGo devices in Transformers 3 Jun 27 21:56:06 explains why there are only 250 devices Jun 27 21:56:30 do they transform themselves? Jun 27 21:58:20 obviously it is an extension of that meegoproject video Jun 27 21:58:23 er.. Jun 27 21:58:25 maemoproject. Jun 27 22:10:32 wazzup? Jun 27 22:15:20 DocScrutinizer: aegis. aegis. aegis! aegis? Jun 27 22:15:31 WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! Jun 27 22:20:23 so Jun 27 22:20:33 funnily enough. Jun 27 22:20:35 yes. Jun 27 22:20:41 package-manager was released as free. Jun 27 22:20:46 yet now it is inside nokia-binaries Jun 27 22:20:50 so, the source was out there. Jun 27 22:20:52 for a few days. Jun 27 22:21:20 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vh48kRUtKpoJ:harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/p/package-manager/+http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/package-manager&cd=2&hl=es&ct=clnk&gl=es&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.es Jun 27 22:21:21 still on google Jun 27 22:21:54 117MiB tarball O_O, damn I really wish I had downloaded. Jun 27 22:21:59 *it. Jun 27 22:22:13 look at code.google.com, maybe its there cached... Jun 27 22:24:29 no way they cache tarballs =), but I wish Jun 27 22:24:57 it mush have been quite a sizeable leak of harmattan source =) Jun 27 22:26:36 http://google.com/codesearch sorry I meant this, but no, it does not seam to be cached. Jun 27 22:31:26 * DocScrutinizer wonders (not so idly) how the pre-rm script for a library patcher should look like :-o Jun 27 22:33:22 make sure the lib.so still is the same you patched months ago, if yes go restore the original you stashed away somewhere. But what if no? And what if your friggin stashed away original got lost?? :-O Jun 27 22:34:40 UNPATCH? yuck Jun 27 22:35:18 MEH, this thing *can not get uninstalled* PERIOD Jun 27 22:35:31 nobody sane would want to do that anyway Jun 27 22:43:16 javispedro, is package-manager the UI or the backend? Jun 27 22:43:34 the backend Jun 27 22:43:41 also, if it was free for a while, that means legalities aren't an issue if they want to foss it Jun 27 22:43:57 ui is imaginatively called "package-manager-ui" Jun 27 22:44:16 is Harmattan actually more closed? Jun 27 22:44:31 apt-worker and HAM were open, crappy, but open Jun 27 22:44:45 no data, but I'm going to say it does not seem more open... Jun 27 22:44:49 javispedro, are you sure it's now in nokia binaries? Jun 27 22:45:06 divan: look for yourself. Jun 27 22:45:13 nokia-binaries is pw protected. Jun 27 22:45:30 DocScrutinizer, there'll be loads of "My N900 crashes after installing X. I also dropped it from 5th story balcony and it got overrun by a steamroller, but I'm sure that has got nothing to do with it. I need to figure out how to uninstall X!!!" Jun 27 22:45:49 javispedro, I don't have harmattan sdk installed for now, and nokia-binaries pool is protected, so I can't check Jun 27 22:46:16 yeah, X sucks on the N900, I don't think it's used for anything Jun 27 22:46:25 * MohammadAG removes it Jun 27 22:46:53 QML seems nice-ish Jun 27 22:58:48 ShadowJK: indeed Jun 27 23:01:45 Hi. Jun 27 23:02:01 Is there a reason why maemo on the nokia n900 needs unallocated space. Jun 27 23:02:04 I forget. Jun 27 23:02:19 As I accidentally used this. Jun 27 23:02:24 And I screwed maemo. Jun 27 23:05:22 eh what? Jun 27 23:05:26 javispedro: goddammit! nobody mirrored the repo? Jun 27 23:05:36 NOBODY? Jun 27 23:05:50 on the partition table Jun 27 23:06:18 DocScrutinizer: I was this near getting the source for that package, I had scheduled downloading it for tonight, and I think it disappeared today. Jun 27 23:06:18 please elaborate Jun 27 23:06:27 DocScrutinizer, nope, nobody Jun 27 23:06:28 The emmc image for the n900. Jun 27 23:06:35 Flashes an unallocated space. Jun 27 23:06:43 at the end of the partition table. Jun 27 23:06:48 EliteTecke, tbh, I'd keep the table as is Jun 27 23:06:49 And I accidentally used it. Jun 27 23:06:54 if i need more partitions, I'd add them after mmcblk0p3 Jun 27 23:06:56 And well maemo broke. Jun 27 23:06:57 haha. Jun 27 23:07:01 recreate it? Jun 27 23:07:04 That's what I did. Jun 27 23:07:05 it's 64MBs Jun 27 23:07:09 Ah nvm. Jun 27 23:07:11 reflash. Jun 27 23:07:11 or MiBs, idk Jun 27 23:07:44 Evening Jun 27 23:08:20 EliteTecke: hmmm. I need to check this, but without looking at it yet I'd guess it has to do with aligning, and possibly a bug in one-off for writing to end of a partition Jun 27 23:08:50 damn. Jun 27 23:08:51 there were such nice bugs in e.g drdos or sth Jun 27 23:08:54 I can't flash the emmc. Jun 27 23:09:03 It doesn't write properly. Jun 27 23:09:05 no way Jun 27 23:09:05 hi i m launching rescue mode with flasher but i can not see the menu on the sceen (no light) Jun 27 23:09:11 you always can flash eMMC Jun 27 23:09:13 ah f**** Jun 27 23:09:19 what should i do to be able to mount my partition Jun 27 23:09:20 it only writes 30% Jun 27 23:09:36 then finishes process is 100% Jun 27 23:09:38 f***** Jun 27 23:09:46 troulouliou: meego rescue initrd? forget it! Jun 27 23:10:06 EliteTecke: PC OS? Jun 27 23:10:15 DocScrutinizer, i used it with gparted a while ago to resize my prtitio without problem Jun 27 23:10:18 Ubuntu(Linux Mint) Jun 27 23:10:24 I have a quick question... What actually happened with Alberto Torres? Anyone got any solid info on this? Jun 27 23:10:48 Ah lets face it I have screwed with the device that many times I'm not surprised. Jun 27 23:10:49 EliteTecke: hmmm, no issues known afaik Jun 27 23:11:19 Its my own doing. Jun 27 23:11:31 I have f**** up the partition table completely. Jun 27 23:11:42 That's why it can't flash properly. Jun 27 23:11:45 EliteTecke: try to flash COMBINED, then do the VANILLA flash again Jun 27 23:12:02 That's what I am doing now. Jun 27 23:12:08 It has saves my ass b4. Jun 27 23:12:09 XD>< Jun 27 23:12:11 EliteTecke: nonsense, the part-tab gets rebuilt on flashing Jun 27 23:12:20 We'll see. Jun 27 23:12:38 DocScrutinizer, just typing U is perfect to have usb storage mode ... Jun 27 23:13:09 aah yes. for storage mode it works. but storage mode is mostly useless Jun 27 23:13:23 as it doesn't expose the rootfs Jun 27 23:13:31 I am trying to partition it like this p1=FAT32/home partition, p2=maemo/root/android partition p3=Meego partition, p4=Swap partition.:) Jun 27 23:14:03 Once flashing maemo I will re flash emmc. Jun 27 23:14:05 DrGrov: left Jun 27 23:14:08 Then maemo again. Jun 27 23:14:08 EliteTecke: you know about the patch-the-image hack? Jun 27 23:14:20 I think so. Jun 27 23:14:23 javispedro: Ok. That is the official version? Jun 27 23:14:28 But which are you referring too? Jun 27 23:14:35 Please refresh my memory thanks.:) Jun 27 23:14:36 DrGrov: yep, iirc. Jun 27 23:14:37 DocScrutinizer: its easier to use the rescue initrd and gparted Jun 27 23:14:51 I use the rescue as well. Jun 27 23:14:56 To repartition it. Jun 27 23:14:57 sed "s/2048/4096" -i vanilla.bin Jun 27 23:15:11 ah no I was thinking of something else. Jun 27 23:15:14 But thanks anyway. Jun 27 23:15:15 :) Jun 27 23:15:43 javispedro: Ok, thanks for clearing it up. Jun 27 23:15:48 It goes init 20% Jun 27 23:15:52 finishing Jun 27 23:15:54 javispedro: Just stumbled across it when reading about the N9 Jun 27 23:15:55 then writing. Jun 27 23:16:07 I might just be overlooking things. Jun 27 23:16:15 javispedro: May I PM you? Jun 27 23:16:30 DrGrov: of course, extraofficial, it probably was a elopcalypse move Jun 27 23:16:33 *extraofficialy Jun 27 23:16:36 DrGrov: yes Jun 27 23:16:49 hiemanshu: how are you typing things on rescue initrd? Jun 27 23:17:07 good evening/night fellas Jun 27 23:17:09 no blue chars Jun 27 23:17:23 means not even digits Jun 27 23:17:34 hard to operate gparted I guess Jun 27 23:17:37 Who me. Jun 27 23:17:38 DocScrutinizer: typing things? Jun 27 23:17:45 coloured chat is nice, cans wees hath it? Jun 27 23:17:56 I just pressed u on rescue Jun 27 23:18:03 I had to reconnect sometimes. Jun 27 23:18:17 DocScrutinizer: well, with resuce initrd, the whole eMMC is exposed as a usb mass storage device, so I can access the partiton data with a computer Jun 27 23:18:19 If you don't boot to maemo first and reformat the fat 32 partition Jun 27 23:18:28 I saw something about +c awhile ago, possibly in #gentoo-chat Jun 27 23:18:42 dunno why gparted just moans that it can't access the mount point. Jun 27 23:18:43 aaah yes. forgot about it again :-/ Jun 27 23:19:06 We have loading bars. Jun 27 23:19:08 XD>< Jun 27 23:19:09 arvut: we are obviously not interested Jun 27 23:19:16 =( Jun 27 23:19:38 DocScrutinizer: http://wiki.maemo.org/Repartitioning_the_flash#Solution_.236:_Custom_repartitioning_from_a_linux_PC Jun 27 23:19:54 hiemanshu: yes, thanks Jun 27 23:20:05 That's what I did. Jun 27 23:20:15 ahah nokia boot vid. Jun 27 23:20:18 It worked. Jun 27 23:20:19 :D Jun 27 23:20:24 I thought you were running gparted on device Jun 27 23:20:35 I'll go back to reading about that enhanced lockscreen then Jun 27 23:20:36 What no. Jun 27 23:20:45 I ran gparted from Linux Mint. Jun 27 23:20:52 But I used rescue to access it. Jun 27 23:20:56 Also a quick note. Jun 27 23:21:02 having gparted on a mobile device is a bad idea in itself Jun 27 23:21:05 If you do need to reflash the n900 and the emmc. Jun 27 23:21:11 * arvut gotta try mint some day.. Jun 27 23:21:13 Make sure you disable R&D Jun 27 23:21:22 As I had problems. Jun 27 23:21:30 hey Jun 27 23:21:34 Otherwise it won't flash properly. Jun 27 23:21:35 that's new Jun 27 23:21:40 Dunno why. Jun 27 23:21:49 Its done this six times already. Jun 27 23:21:55 MohammadAG is flashing since ages with R&D mode on Jun 27 23:22:02 I have the new emmc. Jun 27 23:22:06 So that could be it well. Jun 27 23:22:11 The new emmc image flashed. Jun 27 23:22:17 new eMMC? Jun 27 23:22:26 what's R&D anyways? Jun 27 23:22:27 Yeah I'm not on vanilla no more. Jun 27 23:22:36 mhm, probably MohammadAG does that rarely Jun 27 23:22:43 Ironically I was trying to reflash the emmc. Jun 27 23:22:48 With R&D enabled. Jun 27 23:23:06 R&D has been on since May Jun 27 23:23:14 at least May Jun 27 23:23:14 09 of course Jun 27 23:23:22 Try to repartition again just make sure I don't delete the unallocated space. Jun 27 23:23:23 XD>< Jun 27 23:23:25 lol Jun 27 23:23:45 I have never done that before. Jun 27 23:23:51 I repartitioned my eMMC with gparted Jun 27 23:23:53 I have had this device for over year. Jun 27 23:23:53 EliteTecke: any new partitions you make should be at the end Jun 27 23:23:57 I know. Jun 27 23:24:02 DocScrutinizer, storage mode is usefull to copy big files too :) Jun 27 23:24:03 and unallocated space did change Jun 27 23:24:04 I have done this many times. Jun 27 23:24:13 Just this time I f*** up. Jun 27 23:24:14 It happens. Jun 27 23:24:16 but I set it back to 64 then confirmed changes Jun 27 23:24:19 troulouliou: yes sir Jun 27 23:25:04 that my actual need copying the bt5 image :) Jun 27 23:25:45 it is pretty sad that the N900 like phone is discontinued Jun 27 23:26:01 You mean a tablet with a phone application. Jun 27 23:26:03 XD>< Jun 27 23:26:31 nah Jun 27 23:26:44 they should release a N900 v2 with same specification but higer speed CPU ; ram/rom and screen resolution Jun 27 23:26:51 N900 was a NIT, N9 is a phone Jun 27 23:26:59 obviously Jun 27 23:27:12 :-( Jun 27 23:27:30 is there a way to emit a signal with a QString in QML? Jun 27 23:27:38 I tried Text, String, char, QString, nothing seems to work Jun 27 23:28:12 DocScrutinizer: oh, I'm not sure N900 was a NIT. Jun 27 23:28:37 I mean, large, finger sized buttons? Jun 27 23:28:39 I don't like how with R&D mode enable the thing boots on power source plugged in such as the battery being inserted. Jun 27 23:28:43 pain in the rear. Jun 27 23:28:44 devil's thing! Jun 27 23:29:36 EliteTecke: try this --force-powerbutton option Jun 27 23:29:37 I like that, swapping batteries is something I do a lot, it saves me having to press the power button Jun 27 23:29:43 Note to self leave the 64mb unallocated space alone! Jun 27 23:29:44 XD>< Jun 27 23:30:07 MohammadAG, but you have to reset the clock on statup no ? Jun 27 23:30:29 nope Jun 27 23:30:34 hehe Jun 27 23:30:57 though the SIM always leaves its place, so it shows the welcome screen again Jun 27 23:31:03 but time and date are correctly set there Jun 27 23:31:04 ok maybe this is cause most time i remove battery is to change SIM card Jun 27 23:31:14 :) Jun 27 23:31:22 that's unrelated to SIM Jun 27 23:31:29 actually it is DocScrutinizer Jun 27 23:31:34 I noticed it when my N900 was new Jun 27 23:31:35 no Jun 27 23:31:42 To get the meego partition as p3. Jun 27 23:31:47 take the battery out for 30 secs, nothing happens Jun 27 23:31:53 I have to move the second partition up. Jun 27 23:31:54 EliteTecke, NO Jun 27 23:31:59 Delete swap Jun 27 23:32:04 don't f with p1-p3 Jun 27 23:32:11 What cool it. Jun 27 23:32:13 if you want MeeGo on the eMMC, put it on a new p4 Jun 27 23:32:18 I have done this many times with android. Jun 27 23:32:46 Then add the p3 partition and the swap with remaining 64 allocated space. Jun 27 23:32:49 who would want to run Meego on the N900? it's SLOWER than nitdroid Jun 27 23:32:50 Besides extending the partitions, I wouldn't change anything with numbering Jun 27 23:32:59 Not the community edition. Jun 27 23:33:00 yeah - if you swap SIM - you get a new welcome screen Jun 27 23:33:05 Its much better. Jun 27 23:33:16 SpeedEvil: yes, maybe Jun 27 23:33:19 EliteTecke, really ? with phone .... Jun 27 23:33:23 No one said do this how I do. Jun 27 23:33:30 Its just how I do things. Jun 27 23:33:35 SpeedEvil, no need to swap it, just take it out and put it back in Jun 27 23:33:42 but swapping sim isn't the same as removing and re-inserting same sim Jun 27 23:33:54 Sc0rpius, it's a bit faster as of the latest images Jun 27 23:34:01 I think it's a waste of time Jun 27 23:34:02 MohammadAG: that *definitely* does nuttin Jun 27 23:34:26 DocScrutinizer, sure of it, SIM slot somehow detects the sim is removed even without the battery Jun 27 23:34:30 MohammadAG: how could it tell if the phone is off? Unless you mean remvoe SIM - power up - replace SIM Jun 27 23:34:32 And did you bother to increase swap if you flashed the entire emmc with it. Jun 27 23:34:37 MohammadAG: it simply can't, as device has no means to track such action Jun 27 23:34:38 If you don't its slow. Jun 27 23:34:51 SpeedEvil, if you replace the sim while the device is on, it simply works Jun 27 23:35:05 I didn't flash the entire eMMC with MeeGo... Jun 27 23:35:09 Huh? Jun 27 23:35:09 hotswap sim? thats cool Jun 27 23:35:12 How can you do that? Jun 27 23:35:15 just copied the files to mmcblk0p4 and booted it up Jun 27 23:35:19 How can you do that if the sim is behind the battery. Jun 27 23:35:26 Whilst having it on. Jun 27 23:35:27 SpeedEvil: hehe ;-D Jun 27 23:35:28 haha good point Jun 27 23:35:28 you have exactly 30 seconds to do it Jun 27 23:35:39 SpeedEvil: you actually can Jun 27 23:35:40 lol.:D Jun 27 23:35:41 SpeedEvil, offline mode, rmmod ssi_m(tab) Jun 27 23:35:45 orrrr Jun 27 23:35:48 leave IT PLUGGED Jun 27 23:35:49 remove battery by hotswap (see DocScrutinizer's method) Jun 27 23:35:55 hehe Jun 27 23:35:57 You mean hotswap. Jun 27 23:35:59 swap sim, put battery back in, insmod, online mode Jun 27 23:35:59 just leave the charger Jun 27 23:36:00 Oh - yeah - I was assumign you weren't cheating Jun 27 23:36:02 Yeah great idea. Jun 27 23:36:11 Why don't we all run the risk of frying our devices. Jun 27 23:36:15 No thanks. Jun 27 23:36:20 lol Jun 27 23:36:44 how would that fry your device... Jun 27 23:36:48 When ppl say static kills devices they don't say as a joke. Jun 27 23:37:09 there's a bigger chance of frying the device because of overclocking than because of hotswap Jun 27 23:37:10 but when device is powered down, no way it ever detects you opening and closing again the SIM holder Jun 27 23:37:23 But by all means go ahead and cook it I'm sure steve jobs would love you for it. Jun 27 23:37:31 >< Jun 27 23:37:33 fuck Steve Jobs! Jun 27 23:37:40 anyway there's no risk of frying it Jun 27 23:37:42 some macfreak told me there were mac's that you can hotswap RAM at now, doubt that was true Jun 27 23:37:50 A mac rly. Jun 27 23:38:03 DocScrutinizer, well, yes, I realize that Jun 27 23:38:10 I first thought it tracks IMSI Jun 27 23:38:13 yeah, eff the cult Jun 27 23:38:16 but now it's doing it all the time Jun 27 23:38:24 (I removed the paper under the sim) Jun 27 23:38:36 I am not a supporter of apple hence I own no apple products. Jun 27 23:38:40 Never have never will. Jun 27 23:38:44 hotswapping ram lol Jun 27 23:38:52 :) Jun 27 23:39:08 yeah, hes not very techsavvy Jun 27 23:39:16 hotswapping the SIM is possible cause the device doesn't give a shit about the SIM when it's in offline mode Jun 27 23:39:27 oh and btw, DocScrutinizer Jun 27 23:39:32 plug a charger in MeeGo Jun 27 23:39:38 remove the battery, the device stays on Jun 27 23:39:46 Well duh the iphone has the same cpu chip as the n900 and yet the iphone runs slower. Jun 27 23:39:48 wtf. Jun 27 23:39:48 we have to stop bme on maemo, but not on MeeGo Jun 27 23:39:54 MohammadAG: (offline) exactly Jun 27 23:40:05 same with maemo on n900? Jun 27 23:40:18 The cpu is clocked down to 600mhz. Jun 27 23:40:20 MohammadAG: (meego) WTF?! Jun 27 23:40:30 Silly really as it can run at 1Ghz just fine. Jun 27 23:40:36 no, if you remove the battery with the charger in the screen flickers and the device dies Jun 27 23:40:38 EliteTecke: yeah, fancy crap with too much bloat in it top stay sharp Jun 27 23:40:40 wahou kernel panic while removing the device from flash.rescue without unounting Jun 27 23:41:07 well Jun 27 23:41:11 I thought you'd wtf at that Jun 27 23:41:12 EliteTecke: would you actually recommend overclocking it then? Jun 27 23:41:15 Steve Jobs can die for I care but I know the reason Jun 27 23:41:19 EliteTecke: please don't spread nonsense Jun 27 23:41:20 iPhone's battery last like a week Jun 27 23:41:25 that's the reason of the underclock Jun 27 23:41:25 but I pulled the battery out by mistake Jun 27 23:41:51 Maemo runs at 600mhz Jun 27 23:41:54 and the lack of real multitasking also saves battery life Jun 27 23:42:06 EliteTecke: the iphone and the n900 do not share a CPU Jun 27 23:42:08 It hasn't gone higher without power kernal and overclocking. Jun 27 23:42:14 Sc0rpius: and he will, the bastard even tore down his mansion bcuz he doesnt want others to live there when he takes his dirtnap Jun 27 23:42:24 snapdragon cpu. Jun 27 23:42:24 yeah Jun 27 23:42:28 I dunno about the iphone 4. Jun 27 23:42:32 that mansion was like 300 years old Jun 27 23:42:33 But the same as the 3d Jun 27 23:42:35 3g Jun 27 23:43:38 so, worth overclocking the n900 to 1ghz? Jun 27 23:43:49 if you want to kill it yes Jun 27 23:43:49 yeah, cooking steaks will be fun again Jun 27 23:43:52 or should it stay at 600? Jun 27 23:43:59 arvut, if you have permanent access to car / wakk power outlet yes Jun 27 23:44:04 wall Jun 27 23:44:05 I wouldn't recommend you do it all the time. Jun 27 23:44:09 It is likely to be significantly less reliable. Jun 27 23:44:16 last thing I would worry about is battery life when overclocking Jun 27 23:44:17 I wouldn't recommend you do it even once Jun 27 23:44:18 ?However - go for it if you don't care much about that. Jun 27 23:44:19 But with all overclocking you will shorten the cpu's life time. Jun 27 23:44:21 ~omap-oc Jun 27 23:44:21 extra, extra, read all about it, omap-oc is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05 read that!, or and this http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-03-11.log.html#t2011-03-11T03:04:11 Jun 27 23:44:23 oh yeah, battery drain.. forgot about that :P Jun 27 23:44:27 i m in 1 ghz all days without any issue except some battery drain Jun 27 23:44:56 where's that warning igor posted Jun 27 23:44:59 mine can be somewhat slow sometimes Jun 27 23:45:25 ah yeah, this thing http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/thewarningtm.jpeg Jun 27 23:45:26 ~overclocking Jun 27 23:45:26 "OK, listen up. This is your CPU." apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan. "This is your CPU on overclocking. Any questions?" Jun 27 23:45:40 I'll keep it at 600 then.. this phone is gonna live as long as my 3410 did Jun 27 23:45:52 does* Jun 27 23:46:03 If your that bothered stick android on it and downclock. Jun 27 23:46:06 Geez. Jun 27 23:46:28 nah, dont like android Jun 27 23:46:46 I'd rather install gentoo on it then Jun 27 23:46:48 * SpeedEvil ponders selling teeny CPU fans for n900. Jun 27 23:47:11 troulouliou: I'm smoking since decades, with absolutely no problems except a bit of coughing Jun 27 23:47:22 lol Jun 27 23:47:39 javispedro, does Harmattan show isntallation progress or just a static icon? Jun 27 23:47:39 installation* Jun 27 23:47:43 hehe Jun 27 23:48:02 MohammadAG: good question. Code shows it might show a progress bar, but didn't manage to reproduce it (swipelauncher is closed) Jun 27 23:48:22 I think I have found the issue with the partitioning. Jun 27 23:48:23 so, no idea. Jun 27 23:48:38 If you delete the swap the unallocated space goes with it. Jun 27 23:48:43 If I wanted Android I'd get an Android device Jun 27 23:48:46 So moving the partition is the only option. Jun 27 23:48:48 MohammadAG: is that enhanced-lockscreen still in extras-devel btw? Jun 27 23:48:54 I wanna try it Jun 27 23:48:57 cause tbh, Android works better there Jun 27 23:49:02 also, this is what happens when you break packages on harmattan =) http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/harmattansdk/installbroken.png Jun 27 23:49:03 arvut, yep Jun 27 23:49:10 oh :( Jun 27 23:49:21 Sorry, I don't use -testing Jun 27 23:49:41 so its safe to install? Jun 27 23:50:09 not exactly sure which category is which yet Jun 27 23:50:11 haha worked and my partitions are how I like them. Jun 27 23:50:31 What was that don't do x y z oh come on. Jun 27 23:50:34 extras-devel is the dangerous one, right? Jun 27 23:50:49 yes. Jun 27 23:50:54 I've had few problems though. Jun 27 23:50:54 good, ty Jun 27 23:50:57 Do you really think I wouldn't do this if I knew it would f**** up my device. Jun 27 23:51:20 had -devel enabled since day 1 Jun 27 23:51:32 Found another bug with the emmc. Jun 27 23:51:44 advanced power was a mistake I made quite early Jun 27 23:51:55 Having R&D enabled and four partitions may sometimes jerk the booting. Jun 27 23:52:02 I think it just gets stuck in ram. Jun 27 23:52:07 umm, no Jun 27 23:52:08 So I just removed the power source. Jun 27 23:52:12 first boot is always slow Jun 27 23:52:19 And re inserted and it was fine. Jun 27 23:52:21 now its not in -devel anymore I think but it kinda messed up my device Jun 27 23:52:40 it was optifying rootfs, chances are you broke that Jun 27 23:52:42 R&D? Jun 27 23:53:09 umm, no, all devices optify rootfs on first boot Jun 27 23:53:15 Okay its how you root the device to the point where you can have access to everything. Jun 27 23:53:27 eh? Jun 27 23:53:31 root and d...? Jun 27 23:53:40 So no need for silly sudo gain root package installed Jun 27 23:53:46 To go to root from terminal. Jun 27 23:53:47 R&D is more than root access Jun 27 23:53:50 is there any way to adjust xterm font to a slower value then 6 Jun 27 23:53:53 ah Jun 27 23:53:57 I know but I am just simplifying it. Jun 27 23:54:05 i mean the osso-term Jun 27 23:54:13 what does the D in it mean? Jun 27 23:54:35 EliteTecke: why do you simplify things that are simple enough the way they are? Jun 27 23:54:51 Who knows. Jun 27 23:54:54 XD>< Jun 27 23:55:02 I am not really that fussed. Jun 27 23:55:13 yeah, give the real meaning and see if ppl understand it instead X) Jun 27 23:55:22 it's a bit annoying you spreading semi-nonsense all the time Jun 27 23:55:26 Then get more questions. Jun 27 23:55:30 Research and Destr, err, Development Jun 27 23:55:36 oh yeah a brilliant way to spend my time. Jun 27 23:55:39 root & destroy x) Jun 27 23:55:59 R&D is research and development Jun 27 23:56:04 aha Jun 27 23:56:04 http://wiki.maemo.org/R&D_mode Jun 27 23:56:06 ty Jun 27 23:56:25 it's not about root or not Jun 27 23:56:25 the flasher R&D mode switches the hardware to a different state Jun 27 23:56:37 it's more about watchdogs, or killing them Jun 27 23:56:51 some debugging things get enabled that a normal user neither needs nor wants Jun 27 23:56:55 No I just explained what it enables/allow you to be able to do in simple terms as otherwise I get people saying I don't understand yada yada. Jun 27 23:58:05 e.g yu kbd backlight starts flickering weird ans sucks battery all the time for nothing, in R&D mode Jun 27 23:58:08 I understand :) Jun 27 23:58:34 that page was quite brilliantly summarized Jun 27 23:58:56 Once I have done screwing around with the device I usually disable R&D mode. Jun 27 23:59:02 Until I need it again. Jun 27 23:59:07 and research & devel speaks for itself Jun 27 23:59:34 yeah, maybe feed the bot with that link for easy reminder? Jun 28 00:00:23 so you can enable/disable r&d without a reflash then? Jun 28 00:01:36 or not Jun 28 00:01:49 I just flash flasher-3.5 --disable-rd-mode Jun 28 00:01:56 And then flasher-3.5 -R Jun 28 00:01:58 To reboot. Jun 28 00:02:34 interesting. not gonna try it until I have to tho. not into development yet Jun 28 00:02:59 but atleast I know what you speak of now :) Jun 28 00:03:09 Yeah sorry about that. Jun 28 00:03:17 :) Jun 28 00:03:30 You won't believe how many times I tell people the whole thing from a to b and then they got what? Jun 28 00:03:55 So then I simplify it what something does that they most concerned of. Jun 28 00:04:07 Then they may get pissed at me for not doing that in the first place. Jun 28 00:04:17 So I either do that or don't bother answering. Jun 28 00:04:33 No offence but if people are that bothered just google stuff for your self. Jun 28 00:05:34 haha yeah, I tend to start babbling with ppl about new exciting techstuff I've read about or try to explain thing I do and all I get is "I have no clue what ur talkin about. please shut up!" Jun 28 00:05:42 The Handset forum is gonna make me get back into reading forums. Jun 28 00:05:44 Yeah exactly. Jun 28 00:05:50 Sorry arvut. Jun 28 00:06:01 np Jun 28 00:06:42 I do enjoy conversing tho, which is why I'm here. and learning new thing keeps me alive :) Jun 28 00:06:42 Anyway's I am off to install meego and if I can get it to boot from the partition I won't and still have maemo and android(optional) from the emmc I will post a tutorial on it. Jun 28 00:06:49 If people are interested. Jun 28 00:07:08 nice, much appriciated ;) Jun 28 00:07:11 gl Jun 28 00:07:13 I will still stay and chat but my responses maybe long in between replies. Jun 28 00:07:26 *I want Jun 28 00:07:46 I'm off to bed as soon as I've finished scanning my uncles laptop with mbam Jun 28 00:08:06 sooo tired -.- Jun 28 00:08:09 Yeah mbam is good for windows. Jun 28 00:08:20 But I stopped using windows all together a long time ago. Jun 28 00:09:10 this is a vista laptop, lenovo junk with a 3 min batterylife (hw is crap) Jun 28 00:09:32 137gb hdd and its 80% full Jun 28 00:09:54 installing ubuntu on it tomorrow so they can dualboot for some speed Jun 28 00:09:57 Damn you need more space. **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 28 00:11:47 2011 Jun 28 00:11:56 I could fill that in two weeks with all my os's installed, linux programs and media. Jun 28 00:11:56 XD>< Jun 28 00:11:56 That's tiny. Jun 28 00:12:53 lol @ nslu2's leave msg Jun 28 00:13:12 Just a good tip I think people may like say if I have a lot of .deb files to install, I just keep them all in one directory go to root and type dpkg -i *.deb and it will run through them all and install them.(Sometimes some won't install because they need a certain package so I just run the command again from terminal and all is good.) :) Jun 28 00:13:19 EliteTecke: (tutorial) there should be a few already Jun 28 00:13:43 The only one for emmc is to flash the entire emmc that I have found. Jun 28 00:13:57 I couldn't find any on installing to one partition on the emmc. Jun 28 00:14:02 Otherwise I would of used it. Jun 28 00:14:11 This is for meego. Jun 28 00:15:30 To remove all .deb files in a directory just type in again as root. Jun 28 00:15:50 rm *.deb Jun 28 00:16:07 this is not ##linux-for-noobs Jun 28 00:16:21 Yeah but you use .deb files in maemo. Jun 28 00:16:24 Sorry. Jun 28 00:17:16 probably #ubuntu is appreciating lessons about rm * usage Jun 28 00:17:32 I won't mention them again. Jun 28 00:20:10 Just a question that sparks your mind. If say your cpu dies on your n900 in say the next 5 to 10 years would you solder on a new cpu if you could find one to buy? Jun 28 00:20:13 yeah #ubuntu always need good helpers ;) Jun 28 00:20:36 Or just buy a new phone or device? Jun 28 00:20:56 Myself I would get a new cpu if I could. Jun 28 00:20:56 EliteTecke: probably not, would you buy a new cpu for your old P2? Jun 28 00:21:09 or P3 for that sake Jun 28 00:21:14 Yeah. Jun 28 00:21:21 As I have many p2 for spare parts. Jun 28 00:21:22 XD>< Jun 28 00:21:45 I know not every one would. Jun 28 00:22:08 But I just don't see the point in buying an entire new device if all it needs is one part replacing. Jun 28 00:22:16 If it say need more then three parts. Jun 28 00:22:21 I wouldn't bother. Jun 28 00:22:28 I actually considered buying a P3 and some cheap ram for an old serverbox I found.. turned out the hdd was dead too and the cd-rom was kinda weak Jun 28 00:23:08 Damn that's bad. Jun 28 00:23:19 Yeah in those cases I wouldn't bother. Jun 28 00:23:20 I collect P4's instead :P Jun 28 00:23:28 But a cpu being needed to replace. Jun 28 00:23:36 I mean come on I build pc's all the damn time. Jun 28 00:23:42 And replace countless cpu's. Jun 28 00:23:46 So why the heck not. Jun 28 00:23:49 would cost me £45 Jun 28 00:23:59 Granted I don't have to solder them in a desktop. Jun 28 00:24:01 for the cpu Jun 28 00:24:42 I don't understand people that just buy a whole new pc instead of upgrade or replace the part. Jun 28 00:24:49 Just because they don't know how too. Jun 28 00:24:54 Yeah but other people do. Jun 28 00:25:10 And it is usually cheaper to replace a piece of hardware in a pc. Jun 28 00:25:21 singlecores can be a pain when it comes to requirements and stuff Jun 28 00:25:35 Every chip is different. Jun 28 00:26:08 Replace one cpu with the same one with the same default clock is fine and yes I know all cpu's of the same model are never going to be exactly the same. Jun 28 00:26:25 Hence why some cpu's clock better then others. Jun 28 00:26:35 but my new i7 generates less heat than my old p4 does, so now I gotta keep the window shut during the winter :P Jun 28 00:27:38 The highest overlclock I ever managed was a Intel Pentium duo core(silly name just call it a pentium duo) was from 2.0Ghz stock to 3.80Ghz Jun 28 00:27:48 Idle temps 22-24 degrees. Jun 28 00:27:49 :) Jun 28 00:28:05 nice Jun 28 00:28:15 First overlclock I ever did as well. Jun 28 00:28:16 lmao.:D Jun 28 00:28:27 not using stock cooler then? ;) Jun 28 00:28:51 Oh god no the most I got with that on any cpu would be +0.60 Jun 28 00:29:15 I use a artic cooler. Jun 28 00:29:24 With artic silver. Jun 28 00:29:29 Best make for me. Jun 28 00:29:31 good stuff Jun 28 00:29:34 When it comes to cooling. Jun 28 00:29:53 I found mx-1 to be quite good too Jun 28 00:30:08 But then weirdly I can't even push a stock duo core from intel at 3.0Ghz to 4.0Ghz Jun 28 00:30:27 This is with the Arctic cooler. Jun 28 00:30:36 I think it is down to my ram. Jun 28 00:30:43 could be Jun 28 00:31:00 I know not too much about overclocking Jun 28 00:31:09 I have two 1gb sticks of DDR2(Geil) and 2 2GB ram of DDR2(Corsair) Jun 28 00:31:25 And they run slightly different speeds. Jun 28 00:31:28 But only by about 30. Jun 28 00:31:30 corsair makes excellent stuff Jun 28 00:31:38 Yeah mine have the flashing leds. Jun 28 00:31:44 The gold bars. Jun 28 00:31:49 Well gold plated ones. Jun 28 00:31:50 :) Jun 28 00:32:02 Best system I ever built was my first one. Jun 28 00:32:07 Had to be. Jun 28 00:32:13 In my opinion. Jun 28 00:32:20 probably dramatically increases speed of flasher-3.5 Jun 28 00:32:32 Just started high school many years ago. Jun 28 00:33:00 heh, I modified my first one so many times that only one ram stick and the mobo remained original at the end Jun 28 00:33:08 And I had I think it was an asus motherboard. Jun 28 00:33:17 then I built my i7 which I'm very happy with Jun 28 00:33:18 pc4-e something or other. Jun 28 00:33:26 With a asus cpu upgrade hit. Jun 28 00:33:35 Running a laptop processor. Jun 28 00:33:40 Brilliant temps. Jun 28 00:34:00 * divan finally fixed a bug in echonest-codogen which drove me crazy. Codegenerator algorithm works perfectly for the first time, and fails the next ones, unless the program is restarted. Jun 28 00:34:05 A 1gb stick of DDR1 gold plated ballistixs. Jun 28 00:34:14 was massivly suprised that with the low-cost ram these days, 8gb ddr3 for under 80€ Jun 28 00:34:16 A Nvidia 6800GT Jun 28 00:34:25 And A 500watt psu. Jun 28 00:34:27 BTW, QtCreator gdb frontend is awesome Jun 28 00:34:46 And omg a 80Gb ide hard drive. Jun 28 00:34:50 How old. Jun 28 00:34:51 XD>< Jun 28 00:35:06 haha those were epic Jun 28 00:35:12 I'm guessing N950 applications deadline is over? Jun 28 00:35:18 74.4gb wd? Jun 28 00:35:20 And a pioneer rw sata drive Jun 28 00:35:34 As well as a Sony dvdrom/cdrw (IDE) Jun 28 00:35:37 drive. Jun 28 00:35:45 Turned out to be a rebranded liteon drive. Jun 28 00:35:47 XD>< Jun 28 00:35:56 So I flashed that sucker with a liteon firmware. Jun 28 00:36:04 And now I can backup gamecube games. Jun 28 00:36:12 And possibly Nintendo Wii. Jun 28 00:36:14 Games I think.:) Jun 28 00:36:29 MohammadAG: do not think it is hard deadline, prolly form will stay up until someone remembers Jun 28 00:36:30 It also had Hercules Fortimissmo III sound card. Jun 28 00:36:42 But I sold it some years back. Jun 28 00:36:54 javispedro, heh Jun 28 00:36:57 undblasger live! 5.1 :) Jun 28 00:36:59 It was good but no where near as good as my onboard HD sound. Jun 28 00:37:01 javispedro, done any work on QML? Jun 28 00:37:09 soundblaster* Jun 28 00:37:14 did some stuff reimplement the wp7 ui Jun 28 00:37:20 do not know what I'd use it for =) Jun 28 00:37:24 And I had a good system but had a crappy 17inch crt! Jun 28 00:37:28 What was I thinking. Jun 28 00:37:53 I had a 2.1 Logitech sound system with sub-woofer which I still own. Jun 28 00:37:58 :) Jun 28 00:38:04 No way am I getting rid of that. Jun 28 00:38:28 Eventually the PSU died after about five years or so. Jun 28 00:38:44 MohammadAG: have you seen this movie? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0250687/ Jun 28 00:38:55 I think playing Fear with a few hardware upgrades drained it quicker. Jun 28 00:38:56 XD>< Jun 28 00:39:10 Awesome game by the way.:) Jun 28 00:39:20 I had one of those too, sold it to my mom and bought a 2nd hand cerwin vega 2.1 which I've used with an old yamaha amp for a few years Jun 28 00:39:44 good stuff. logitech speakers were a rip-off compared to these Jun 28 00:39:51 I bet. Jun 28 00:39:52 XD>< Jun 28 00:40:04 I used to have 5.1 surround sound system. Jun 28 00:40:06 Hooked up. Jun 28 00:40:11 But the speakers went. Jun 28 00:40:21 logitech? Jun 28 00:40:25 No. Jun 28 00:40:28 Some other ones. Jun 28 00:40:34 That came with my LG dvd player. Jun 28 00:40:38 damn old. Jun 28 00:40:51 And yeah I region hacked the dvd player. Jun 28 00:40:55 Who wouldn't. Jun 28 00:41:08 XD>< Jun 28 00:41:09 my neighbour blew up both soundard (intergrated ac97 7.1) and Z3 speakers (same as I had) Jun 28 00:41:19 It had a sub-woofer as well. Jun 28 00:41:25 soundcard* Jun 28 00:41:28 I could of just blown the speakers. Jun 28 00:41:35 MohammadAG: cause it's exactly what's going to happen when they announce they only have one single n950 to share =) Jun 28 00:41:38 But it turned out all the wiring had worn out. Jun 28 00:41:45 And some of the connectors as well. Jun 28 00:42:05 either way, good luck for everyone who submitted Jun 28 00:42:11 cya gentlemen. Jun 28 00:42:49 mbam is finally complete, 12 infected, 2 rogue AV's and 1 rogue spyware remover among with some toolbars and other junk Jun 28 00:43:31 lovely program that is, go mbam! and goood niight!! -.^ Jun 28 00:45:07 lmfao javispedro Jun 28 00:52:36 Oooh - impressive! Jun 28 00:53:10 http://wiki.maemo.org/N9_Hardware_Main_Camera - some numbers gathered from various places indicate that - the n9 camera resolution is a fair bit better than the n900 Jun 28 00:53:43 Stop torturing us! Jun 28 00:54:17 Around 4.4 megapixels. Jun 28 00:54:32 the N900 was 2? Jun 28 00:54:42 Still way under 8 megapixels. But ~1.7mm lens is lots better Jun 28 00:54:42 yes Jun 28 00:54:54 yay for night time photos Jun 28 00:55:02 0.39 milliradian resolution if I've not blown off the numbers. Jun 28 00:55:06 * MohammadAG hopes the flash is the same as that on the N86 Jun 28 00:55:19 It's '20% brighter than any nokia flash' Jun 28 00:55:21 that thing is almost as good as Xenon Jun 28 00:55:25 any nokia LED flash Jun 28 00:55:32 hmm, interesting Jun 28 00:55:37 Of course - that doesn't saaay anything about the sensitivity Jun 28 00:55:47 the N86 was very bright Jun 28 00:55:54 a lot brighter than two N900s combined Jun 28 00:55:59 The chip is only 5.7mm diagonal - which isn't very large. Jun 28 00:56:36 Another question is - is that in terms of actual light output, or brightness. If it's in terms of actual light output, the brightness will be lower, as it's got to illuminate a larger angle Jun 28 00:57:17 N900 was 2Mpix? Jun 28 00:57:32 ShadowJK: Somewhere of that order. The lens really handicaps it Jun 28 00:57:38 SpeedEvil, Doesn't the F 2.2 mean it will be better in low light? Jun 28 00:57:50 Ken-Young: Not quite. Jun 28 00:58:20 Ken-Young: For a given sensor, if you drop the F ratio, the image gets brighter. Jun 28 00:58:28 But - not if you swap sensors. Jun 28 00:58:31 Right. Jun 28 00:58:40 Or decrease the QE, or ... Jun 28 00:58:50 So it's a crapshoot. Jun 28 00:58:51 What is QE? Jun 28 00:58:57 Quantum Efficiency Jun 28 00:59:07 How many photons get turned into photoelectrons. Jun 28 00:59:15 Oh, I'd lump that in with swapping sensors. Jun 28 00:59:29 yeah - sorry - not very clear at this time of night. Jun 28 01:00:02 SpeedEvil, Is there any indication they are actually using a less sensitive chip? Jun 28 01:01:13 http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/06/27/damian-dinning-on-nokia-n9-imaging/ implies it's more sensitive - but the lower area means its performance in low light is similar to n8 Jun 28 01:04:40 I'm surprised that the N950 has a four row keyboard, but the upper row isn't numeric (whichout shifting). By far my biggest complaint about the N900 keyboard is having to shift for numerals. Jun 28 01:06:34 N900 keyb makes it hard to enter IP addresses Jun 28 01:07:26 From the looks of it, they managed to make a four row keyboard for the N950 which will be no more convenient than a 3 row one would have been. Jun 28 01:07:52 Indeed. Jun 28 01:08:10 Not that I'll ever get to touch one... Jun 28 01:08:21 The bigger spacebar, for example, seems - with the benefit of using the n900 for a bit - pointless Jun 28 01:08:27 hmm, no camera key on the N9 means you have to launch the camera from the menu Jun 28 01:08:51 Well - I'd like xephem, or similar, with magnetometer and accel pointy goodness! :) Jun 28 01:09:05 That would be a useful app on the n9. Jun 28 01:09:18 And worthy of a dev device IMO. Jun 28 01:09:24 But yes - time is limited. Jun 28 01:09:31 SpeedEvil, Well, I applied for a Devkit to port orrery and add magnetometer support, but I doubt I'll get one. Jun 28 01:09:51 Ah - hope you're successfull. Jun 28 01:10:01 Thanks! Jun 28 01:10:54 I wonder if Meego has code to figure out magnetic declination from GPS coordinates, so that they can derive true north from magnetic north. Jun 28 01:11:36 There is lots of code out there to do similar. Jun 28 01:12:13 Was recently talking with someone with commodity sensors getting ~0.1 degree heading info with a proper magnetic model and GPS. Jun 28 01:12:38 That's in the range where you need to worry abou tthe ionosphere pushing the magnetism around! Jun 28 01:12:49 It's tough to do that in Northern Canada! Jun 28 01:12:59 SpeedEvil, you can see the flash in this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tit5X7hH3xY&feature=player_detailpage#t=141s Jun 28 01:13:12 Hmm - yes - he was in Cambridge, UK Jun 28 01:13:49 MohammadAG: Difficult without a lightmeter. Jun 28 01:14:05 I said see, not measure how bright it is :P Jun 28 01:14:47 One thing I don't like about the n9 is no hardware camera. Jun 28 01:14:50 err Jun 28 01:14:53 camera shutter Jun 28 01:14:56 which is a pity Jun 28 01:15:10 I wish it had a cover, too. Jun 28 01:15:17 Style be damned! Jun 28 01:16:45 O_o that phone is really fast (watching the video) Jun 28 01:18:54 yeah - that's what I mean by cover Jun 28 01:18:58 shutter Jun 28 01:19:09 Oh, I misunderstood. Jun 28 01:19:10 I get fingerprints on things. Jun 28 01:19:16 I also want a shutter button. Jun 28 01:19:21 Or a magic grip Jun 28 01:19:39 For example, pull phone out of pocket, and drag from both edges at the same time. Jun 28 01:19:55 pinch from the edges of the display into the middle Jun 28 01:20:03 Has anyone put a folded optics camera in a cell phone? Jun 28 01:20:23 Ken-Young: It's a _damn_ huge package to put a 'proper' camera in there. Jun 28 01:20:39 The n9 camera is probably of the order of 7*7*5mm Jun 28 01:21:09 It's amazing the performance for a camera of its size. Jun 28 01:21:20 Absolutely Jun 28 01:22:02 But sometimes you just want a damn huge lens. Jun 28 01:23:47 Yeah Jun 28 01:23:56 28mm is a bit wide Jun 28 01:24:17 * SpeedEvil is pondering making a 2.88m^2 lens. Jun 28 01:24:22 Well - mirror. Jun 28 01:24:36 Though for solar concentration. Jun 28 01:24:57 Boils water for a steam powered phone. Jun 28 01:25:02 remind me to make a flashlight app for the N9 Jun 28 01:25:10 Ken-Young: Tempting. :) Jun 28 01:25:14 or N950, if I ever get either one Jun 28 01:25:44 I'm aiming at getting some solar-DIY panels at a fair bit under a dollar a watt of PV. Jun 28 01:25:46 MohammadAG, If they don't give you an N950, they're deranged. Jun 28 01:26:02 Fun. Jun 28 01:26:16 I'm actually expecting they won't, idk why Jun 28 01:26:59 250 devices, 600-700 requests, my chances are small Jun 28 01:28:02 MohammadAG, But people know how much you'd done for the N900. Jun 28 01:28:38 But are those the right people? Jun 28 02:01:08 o/ - anyone know of a way to show / hide a homescreen (on the fly) Jun 28 02:01:25 (n900) Jun 28 02:01:48 or a icon dock that toggles on/off? Jun 28 02:03:28 You can set the number of homescreens. Jun 28 02:03:39 I'm unsure you can do this truly on the fly though Jun 28 02:05:16 hmm i want to be ablte to put all my system stuff on one that hides, like conky and cmd shortcuts etc Jun 28 02:12:53 what is the recommended procedure to install, use Debian on N900? Jun 28 02:14:02 http://wiki.maemo.org/Easy_Debian Jun 28 02:14:15 mrexcess, okay Jun 28 02:14:41 pretty easy tbh just use app manager, its not running natively tho Jun 28 02:14:56 mrexcess, I see Jun 28 02:15:15 well it run over hte top of maemo i mean Jun 28 02:15:20 the* Jun 28 02:15:53 mrexcess, running native is possible? Jun 28 02:15:53 (wtb spellcheck for pidgin) Jun 28 02:16:21 not sure tbh any of the 332 other people have any idea? Jun 28 02:16:38 331, since I don't have a clue Jun 28 02:16:55 - infobot too, also need maths checker] Jun 28 02:17:40 I don't think running it natively is an option Jun 28 02:17:46 you'd need drivers that are not open Jun 28 02:17:51 Easy Debian uses a fully installed Debian system to run applications inside of Maemo. The Deblet project helps you install a bootable Debian system from scratch; Deblet is mainly designed for booting to an alternate OS. Jun 28 02:17:52 for keyboard, screen, etc Jun 28 02:18:23 look into deblet but its 404'ing me atm Jun 28 02:19:06 dont even know if that was ever out for n900 tbh just asking uncle google Jun 28 02:23:55 heres a community plan on getting debian onto n900 btw: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_on_Debian discussion http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44967 Jun 28 02:24:52 oooold tbh id stick to easy deb and use the lxde interface Jun 28 02:25:22 its hardly nippy tbh Jun 28 02:26:08 gl o/ Jun 28 02:27:23 ...I feel as if I must be overcomplicating this. It seems unlikely that it's really this difficult to share my ipv6 beta connection with my android tablet. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jun 28 02:59:58 2011