**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 28 02:59:58 2011
Jun 28 03:58:40 <fredrin> hai
Jun 28 03:58:58 <fredrin> anyone use shr on their n900? lol
Jun 28 03:59:47 <SpeedEvil> There is a SHR channel I think
Jun 28 04:01:18 <fredrin> :) 
Jun 28 04:01:34 <fredrin> same same, but different
Jun 28 04:02:07 <fredrin> will i get better battery time with suspend that 0 clock? 
Jun 28 04:08:51 <SpeedEvil> Suspend to ram uses about 3mA less power.
Jun 28 04:09:23 <SpeedEvil> This could lead to stabdby life of ~300-400 hours in an optimally configured system
Jun 28 04:10:14 * ShadowJK observed his spare n900 consume 3mA. (Offline mode, bq27200.sh 15)
Jun 28 04:11:22 <SpeedEvil> that was online with GSM
Jun 28 04:11:31 <SpeedEvil> but in suspend mode
Jun 28 04:22:23 <cehteh> SpeedEvil: now do the calculation how long the suspend must be to conserve more power than a shutdown/reboot
Jun 28 04:22:35 <cehteh> err ShadowJK 
Jun 28 04:22:40 <SpeedEvil> Um - no.
Jun 28 04:22:54 <SpeedEvil> Suspend-disk would be the appropriate way to deal with that
Jun 28 04:23:25 <cehteh> not even sure :)
Jun 28 04:23:38 <cehteh> writing to flash is such a hog :P
Jun 28 04:23:47 <SpeedEvil> It's about an hour, anyway
Jun 28 04:24:27 <SpeedEvil> But if you're doing that, you need to be a haxxor
Jun 28 04:24:51 <SpeedEvil> For example - a limited phone app in early boot.
Jun 28 04:24:56 <cehteh> some semi-deep sleep would be nice ... that is, turn off all radios, most interrupt sources and stop services which are not essential (trackerd, ...)
Jun 28 04:25:24 <SpeedEvil> To be fair - services which are not essential do go dead.
Jun 28 04:25:36 <SpeedEvil> On battery.
Jun 28 04:25:39 <cehteh> thats why i saied trackerd :P
Jun 28 04:25:55 <cehteh> someone at nokia decided trackerd is essential .. haha
Jun 28 04:26:10 <SpeedEvil> I often get an average time-between wakes of 3s or so
Jun 28 04:26:32 <cehteh> yes .. would be nice to extend that to tens of seconds 
Jun 28 04:26:47 <cehteh> (maybe even disabling the watchdogs, at least when not charging)
Jun 28 04:27:26 <cehteh> hey i can configure my laptop to do that
Jun 28 04:27:29 * SpeedEvil wonders why pulseaudio has decided it's gonna burble along at 3% CPU
Jun 28 04:27:48 <cehteh> yes pa is another example
Jun 28 04:28:01 <SpeedEvil> Oh - media player was up. (though not playing)
Jun 28 04:28:39 <SpeedEvil> I'm really unsure that the wake time is the actual problem leading to sleep.
Jun 28 04:28:43 * SpeedEvil sighs.
Jun 28 04:28:58 <cehteh> anyways .. standby and otherwise idle power management isnt that shabby ...
Jun 28 04:29:01 <SpeedEvil> leading to sleep current over the suspend -RAM
Jun 28 04:29:08 <cehteh> if only the device would consume less power when used :P
Jun 28 04:29:12 <SpeedEvil> And saving 3mA - at best - is questionable.
Jun 28 04:29:28 <SpeedEvil> I meant to try reducing colour depth too.
Jun 28 04:29:40 <SpeedEvil> I have a laptop that uses 10% less power at 4bpp
Jun 28 04:29:57 <cehteh> highly depends on the graphics chipset
Jun 28 04:30:25 <cehteh> i bet the n900 graphics are only designed with one mode in mind
Jun 28 04:30:34 <SpeedEvil> Graphics chipset, LCD, RAM.
Jun 28 04:31:08 <cehteh> well no ram when the device is idle .. it completely powers down the graphics then
Jun 28 04:31:11 <SpeedEvil> However - ram BPP is generally going to be accepted just fine with the LCD, it gets upset if you change bitrates
Jun 28 04:31:16 <cehteh> idle == screen off
Jun 28 04:31:20 <SpeedEvil> I meant reducing active power
Jun 28 04:31:26 <cehteh> well try it
Jun 28 04:31:32 <cehteh> is there a xorg.conf?
Jun 28 04:31:42 <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
Jun 28 04:31:48 <SpeedEvil> I should try to poke more.
Jun 28 04:31:59 <SpeedEvil> Currently working on my n950 application.
Jun 28 04:32:24 <SpeedEvil> There is so much of the n900 that I haven't properly explored.
Jun 28 04:32:44 * cehteh wonders how much fun it will be when you break the xorg.conf 
Jun 28 04:32:45 <SpeedEvil> Can the DMA unit be configured to stream audio from a RAM buffer to the soundcard without the CPU being awake.
Jun 28 04:33:19 <cehteh> when x doesnt come up .. does sshd do .. or do the initscript count that as fatal error and do a reboot loop?
Jun 28 04:33:23 <SpeedEvil> Does the helix mp3 decoder go faster on the processor?
Jun 28 04:33:38 <SpeedEvil> All of the user stuff is brought up in x11.post IIRC
Jun 28 04:34:06 * cehteh better doesnt try .. tell me when it works for you
Jun 28 04:34:16 <cehteh> i dont want a bricked device and dont want to reflash :P
Jun 28 04:34:29 <SpeedEvil> There are fairly risk free ways to so it.
Jun 28 04:34:40 <cehteh> yes .. but i am lazy :)
Jun 28 04:34:51 <SpeedEvil> You have the init script you edit, as the first thing it does - move the old script over the new
Jun 28 04:34:58 <cehteh> yes go ahead
Jun 28 04:35:20 <SpeedEvil> I have way too little functional tim. Trying to do more.
Jun 28 04:43:16 <dan_> hi guys , dummy network does not show up in my internet connection list ? how do i get it to show up there ?
Jun 28 05:33:30 <fredrin> would be nice to make the n900 suspend with the use of the side knob, it only woke up by call or sms
Jun 28 05:34:11 <robbiethe1st> To be fair, the N900 almost does that
Jun 28 05:34:41 <robbiethe1st> with the screen off and no programs taking much, the chip is actually off for a signifigant portion of each second, resulting in negligable power usage
Jun 28 06:00:50 <dan_> hi guys , dummy network does not show up in my internet connection list ? how do i get it to show up there ?
Jun 28 06:20:33 <bindi> hey
Jun 28 06:20:42 <bindi> I'm in windows xp mode (on top of a win7 x64)
Jun 28 06:21:02 <bindi> attached the n900 (update mode) to the vm
Jun 28 06:21:13 <bindi> yet flasher says "suitable usb device not found, waiting"
Jun 28 06:27:35 <dan_> hi guys , dummy network does not show up in my internet connection list ? how do i get it to show up there ?
Jun 28 06:29:14 <mece> \o
Jun 28 06:31:20 <SpeedEvil> dan_: 'dummy network' ?
Jun 28 06:31:29 <SpeedEvil> o/
Jun 28 06:31:58 <dan_> SpeedEvil  ya  dummy network used in USB Networking
Jun 28 06:32:21 <SpeedEvil> 'internet connection list' ?
Jun 28 07:04:50 <jonwil> bah, still no closer to figuring out all this stuff I need to figure out :(
Jun 28 07:06:32 <jonwil> libconnui is really annoying me :(
Jun 28 07:08:40 <Termana> good morning
Jun 28 07:09:32 <SpeedEvil> jonwil: What bit of it specifically?
Jun 28 07:10:07 <cloudyLights> morning
Jun 28 07:11:11 <jonwil> I am trying to figure out how to use connui_cell_net_status_close, connui_cell_net_status_register, connui_cell_net_get_operator_name, connui_cell_network_dup, connui_cell_network_free, connui_cell_sim_get_service_provider and connui_cell_sim_is_network_in_service_provider_info from libconnui_cellular
Jun 28 07:11:22 <jonwil> particularly connui_cell_net_status_register/close
Jun 28 07:11:32 <SpeedEvil> ah
Jun 28 07:12:05 <SpeedEvil> What are you wanting from it?
Jun 28 07:12:18 <jonwil> I want to be able to call those functions
Jun 28 07:12:27 <jonwil> or failing that, somehow come up with functions that do exactly the same thing
Jun 28 07:12:51 <SpeedEvil> have you looked at 'netmon'
Jun 28 07:12:54 <jonwil> of course "do exactly the same thing" implies that somehow we have to figure out just WHAT those functions do
Jun 28 07:12:59 <jonwil> and yes I have looked at netmon
Jun 28 07:13:03 <SpeedEvil> oh - hang on - I think I pointed you to that last night
Jun 28 07:13:04 <SpeedEvil> nvm
Jun 28 07:13:07 <jonwil> yes you did
Jun 28 07:15:21 <jonwil> So far as I can tell, connui_cell_net_status_register takes a callback function
Jun 28 07:16:18 <jonwil> I either need the prototype of that callback function or to find out what information its passed
Jun 28 07:16:26 <jonwil> and also what triggers a call to it
Jun 28 07:19:37 <jonwil> ARM reverse engineering is a lot harder than the x86 I am used to :(
Jun 28 07:20:00 <ruskie> what are you reverse engineering?
Jun 28 07:22:25 <jonwil> libconnui
Jun 28 07:22:30 <jonwil> libconnui_cellular
Jun 28 07:22:37 <jonwil> as per what I am talking about with those functions
Jun 28 07:24:37 <jonwil> Its annoying because libconnui is undocumented :(
Jun 28 07:25:31 <jonwil> and understanding it is important for understanding any of the interesting bits in the connectivity widgets
Jun 28 07:26:32 <cloudyLights> jowil: interesting , according to the netmon app I think I can
Jun 28 07:26:53 <jonwil> you think you can figure what out?
Jun 28 07:26:56 <cloudyLights> write aprogram to wake me up when I sense a change in location
Jun 28 07:27:25 <jonwil> nice
Jun 28 07:27:49 <cloudyLights> in 15 min  I saw the cellular zone change and also the cellID
Jun 28 07:28:03 <cloudyLights> I may also use the signal strength
Jun 28 07:28:16 <cloudyLights> wish I could query signal to a certaintower
Jun 28 07:28:24 <cloudyLights> certain tower
Jun 28 07:28:51 <cloudyLights> so, please share your finindings
Jun 28 07:29:34 <jonwil> Thats the point, I dont know how libconnui and libconnui_cellular work
Jun 28 07:29:42 <jonwil> so I havent got any "findings" yet
Jun 28 07:29:51 <jonwil> if I could call those libraries, a lot of things would become possible
Jun 28 07:29:54 <jonwil> or easy
Jun 28 07:29:58 <SpeedEvil> Also - I think the you get some dbus messages on signal change - at least when netmon is on
Jun 28 07:30:22 <SpeedEvil> I assume you've tried googling the function names?
Jun 28 07:30:28 <jonwil> yep
Jun 28 07:30:30 <jonwil> there is a dbus signal signal_strength_change
Jun 28 07:30:38 <jonwil> dont know much about it though
Jun 28 07:30:56 <SpeedEvil> also tower
Jun 28 07:32:26 <jonwil> googling for "connui_cell_net_status_register" only shows some places that mirror/repost a post from me on the devel mailing list
Jun 28 07:32:49 * RST38h yawns
Jun 28 07:44:02 <Lorisse> Hi, i'm having problems with connecting my n900 to my mac via bluetooth. I can browse or send files to my n900 from my mac but i can't send files the other way around. Any thoughts?
Jun 28 07:45:49 <alterego> Macs are scht
Jun 28 07:46:03 <alterego> (just a thought) :P
Jun 28 07:47:09 <Lorisse> well sometimes! but before, it used to work.
Jun 28 07:47:52 <Lorisse> is there a way to re-install the bluetooth on my phone?
Jun 28 07:47:59 <alterego> Must be an anti N900 service update for OS X
Jun 28 07:50:23 <MasseR> The sdk gui installer does not work in archlinux. Is there any other way to get a development environment without installing some debian derivative?
Jun 28 07:50:37 <alterego> Install Fedora
Jun 28 07:50:47 <alterego> Or Open SuSe
Jun 28 07:51:47 <MasseR> s/installing some debian derivative/installing yet another different distro/
Jun 28 07:51:48 <infobot> MasseR meant: The sdk gui installer does not work in archlinux. Is there any other way to get a development environment without installing yet another different distro?
Jun 28 07:52:40 <alterego> Well, why would you install archlinux to begin with
Jun 28 07:52:55 <alterego> Nothing works with it to the point of it being pre
Jun 28 07:53:01 <alterego> Nothing works with it to the point of it being pretty useless ..
Jun 28 07:53:21 <MasseR> You're probably the first one (besides me) saying that D:
Jun 28 07:53:57 <alterego> Join the light side, install Ubuntu :P
Jun 28 07:54:00 * SpeedEvil is still on slackware.
Jun 28 07:54:09 * jonwil uses Gentoo
Jun 28 07:54:15 <MasseR> alterego: Seeing what canonical does, I'd rather not
Jun 28 07:54:15 <jonwil> and all the SDK stuff works just fine there :)
Jun 28 07:54:18 <alterego> Though I'd install 10.10 11.04 is a bit buggy
Jun 28 07:54:39 <MasseR> Can madde still be used for maemo?
Jun 28 07:54:43 * alterego still can't tether his N900 with 11.04 :/
Jun 28 07:54:50 <alterego> MasseR: yes
Jun 28 07:54:57 * frals cats /etc/debian_version
Jun 28 07:54:58 <jave> i'm curious about the n950. any faq about it?
Jun 28 07:55:06 <alterego> I use it for maemo, harmattan & meego
Jun 28 07:55:10 <jjo> MasseR: which SDK? and how does it fail?
Jun 28 07:55:24 <alterego> jave: are you a developer?
Jun 28 07:55:29 <jave> yes
Jun 28 07:55:43 <alterego> Then go to developer.nokia.com
Jun 28 07:56:08 <jave> cool
Jun 28 07:56:16 <MasseR> jjo: http://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/c05693a1-265c-4c7f-a389-fc227db4c465/Maemo_5_SDK.html and fails when creating a user. I tried continuing manually, but as arch no longer has hostname, I had to patch some files. After that I was able to log in and set the environments but apt couldn't update anything
Jun 28 07:56:18 <alterego> http://developer.nokia.com/swipe
Jun 28 07:56:21 <alterego> infact ..
Jun 28 07:57:05 <alterego> MasseR: that sounds like a horrible mess, use a better distro :P 
Jun 28 07:57:15 <jave> alterego: I would get it for my personal hacking, but im a dev even so
Jun 28 07:57:42 <MasseR> alterego: Two weeks ago I moved from fedora which was fubar. I will not touch buntus and debians too old, so no, not right now anyway :P
Jun 28 07:57:54 <jave> alterego: so im curious if its worthy upgrade from n900
Jun 28 07:57:56 <alterego> jave: well if you're not actually creating apps to share or sell, you're not getting an N950
Jun 28 07:58:03 <jave> ah ok
Jun 28 07:58:16 <alterego> MasseR: then suffer.
Jun 28 07:58:37 <alterego> And do it in silence :P
Jun 28 07:59:10 <MasseR> alterego: So the official view of the maemo community is that ubuntu or gtfo, or is it only the official view of alterego?
Jun 28 07:59:37 <jjo> MasseR: ok then. I thought I might be able to help, since I know the command line installers and the "gui installer" is just running them but that sounds "exotic"
Jun 28 07:59:46 <alterego> MasseR: I told you, ubuntu or fedora or open suse
Jun 28 07:59:54 <alterego> One of the major supported distros.
Jun 28 08:00:01 <alterego> No one supports archlinux.
Jun 28 08:00:29 <jonwil> The SDK works just fine on Gentoo FYI
Jun 28 08:00:30 <MasseR> jjo: Hmm.. I'll try madde, but could you have helped with apt? That's where I got stumped
Jun 28 08:01:01 <jjo> MasseR: in maemo5 the installation can still be done manually and doing it so, would reveal the exact point where it fails
Jun 28 08:01:25 <jjo> I have a feeling that scratchbox isn't working properly or the networking inside scratchbox
Jun 28 08:01:34 <jjo> if apt indeed is failing
Jun 28 08:02:01 <jjo> but by the time you'd be running apt, you should have scratchbox installed already
Jun 28 08:02:26 <MasseR> jjo: I just tried to continue where the gui failed
Jun 28 08:02:28 <alterego> jjo: I think he's talking about apt from within scratchbox ..
Jun 28 08:03:38 <jjo> alterego: that's why I thought he should have sb installed :)
Jun 28 08:03:51 <ruskie> hmm hmm looks like I'll need to build a fresh kernel with the mobilehotspot stuff enabled
Jun 28 08:04:18 <jjo> MasseR: can you use the network connection from inside scratchbox?
Jun 28 08:04:45 <MasseR> Hold on a while, I'll try it again soon
Jun 28 08:09:12 <cloudyLights> jowel: you said you use gentoo?
Jun 28 08:09:21 <jonwil> I use gentoo yes
Jun 28 08:09:22 <cloudyLights> jowel: so we need to talk later
Jun 28 08:09:33 <jonwil> do you use gentoo? Or do you plan to use it?
Jun 28 08:09:43 <cloudyLights> jowel: I am also using gentoo at home and need advice on scratchbox
Jun 28 08:10:00 <cloudyLights> now I am at work on ubuntu
Jun 28 08:10:16 <jonwil> All I did was to unmask the scratchbox packages and then I was able to install scratchbox with emerge
Jun 28 08:10:26 <cloudyLights> I amy just install xen and use a irtual OS for maemo develop
Jun 28 08:11:10 <MasseR> What weirds me is that the installer seems to check if user directory exists before creating it, while still giving advice on how to create it
Jun 28 08:12:24 <MasseR> And the users directory exists with both my username and 'user' 
Jun 28 08:13:55 <MasseR> jjo: I'm now logged in, sb-conf says that there is no default environment. I'll create it like wiki says
Jun 28 08:14:24 <jonwil> Anyone know what "cherry" is?
Jun 28 08:18:17 <MasseR> jjo: Is there any utility in sb that I can test the internet connection with?
Jun 28 08:18:38 <alterego> wget
Jun 28 08:18:39 <jjo> MasseR: you could try to wget something
Jun 28 08:18:41 <cloudyLights> jonwil: what are SystemNoteInfoprint ?
Jun 28 08:18:50 <MasseR> Oh of course :D
Jun 28 08:18:55 <MasseR> In that case network works
Jun 28 08:19:03 <cloudyLights> jonwil: why should the cellular network send me a msg?
Jun 28 08:19:05 <cloudyLights> sms?
Jun 28 08:19:07 <jjo> interesting
Jun 28 08:19:11 <MasseR> Failed to fetch ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/etch/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz  Unable to fetch file, server said 'Failed to open file.  ' [IP: 130.89.149.226 21]
Jun 28 08:19:13 <jonwil> dont know what SystemNoteInfoprint is, where are you getting that from?
Jun 28 08:19:43 <jjo> MasseR: that fails even in a browser
Jun 28 08:19:48 <cloudyLights> netmon: notification.py line 17
Jun 28 08:19:57 <MasseR> jjo: Yup, I just checked too
Jun 28 08:20:14 <jjo> MasseR: if you extract the rootstraps, then you'll have most of the sdk already
Jun 28 08:20:27 <jjo> no wait
Jun 28 08:20:44 <jjo> I was thinkin g about harmattan
Jun 28 08:21:07 <MasseR> :)
Jun 28 08:21:09 <jjo> but extracting the rootstraps would give you the sources.list and stuff for maemo
Jun 28 08:21:39 <jjo> would be interesting to see what apt complaints then
Jun 28 08:23:03 <MasseR> jjo: Where are the rootstraps?
Jun 28 08:25:51 <jjo> http://repository.maemo.org/stable/5.0/i386/
Jun 28 08:26:02 <jjo> http://repository.maemo.org/stable/5.0/armel/
Jun 28 08:26:14 <jjo> I had to look it up from the installer :)
Jun 28 08:26:19 <jjo> it's been a while...
Jun 28 08:28:52 <MasseR> So logout, and download the sh files
Jun 28 08:29:51 <jjo> sh files?
Jun 28 08:30:08 <jjo> oh yes, the command line installer
Jun 28 08:31:06 <jjo> well, it's doing just that, but kinda hiding some things
Jun 28 08:33:56 <MasseR> Apt is working now :)
Jun 28 08:34:17 <MasseR> Apparently the gui was only able to install sb, but nothing for the sdk, which is naturally why the apt failed
Jun 28 08:35:05 <jjo> the gui side is really trying to hide things
Jun 28 08:35:27 <jjo> but I guess it mostly works, haven't ever used it
Jun 28 08:35:52 <MasseR> Yep. I wish there were completely manual installation instructions, but then again the wikipage isn't too up to date even as it is
Jun 28 08:36:51 <jjo> I was tehre for the few of the first fremantle releases and I think we had instructions for a manuall install
Jun 28 08:36:57 <jjo> can't be sure though
Jun 28 08:38:05 <jjo> we tried to make sure you could do most thing by yourself and that the sdk would work as well as possible without closed components
Jun 28 08:38:19 <jjo> later that became impossible though :(
Jun 28 08:38:58 * ruskie wonders if he'll manage to part brick his n900 with a new kernel or not...
Jun 28 08:39:22 * jonwil wonders if the "license change requests" stuff in bugzilla ever went anywhere or if it was just a waste of time...
Jun 28 08:43:14 <jonwil> all the stuff on http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Open_development/Why_the_closed_packages#List_of_outstanding_requests_that_are_still_relevant seems like a waste of time
Jun 28 08:51:35 <MasseR> jjo: What do I do after adding the nokia repos? I suspect I should install something after it
Jun 28 08:53:33 <DocScrutinizer> jonwil: alas waste of time
Jun 28 08:54:48 <jonwil> I suspect that the problem with some of the requests wasnt so much "this contains stuff we cant release" but either "we dont have the resources to have a legal guy review this code and make sure its clean" or "this talks to stuff we dont want people talking to"
Jun 28 08:55:05 <DocScrutinizer> exactly
Jun 28 08:55:29 <DocScrutinizer> for #1, #2 not so much I guess
Jun 28 08:57:11 <DocScrutinizer> quite obviously Nokia dasn't want to allocate $randomnumber lawyers to things like opening bits for a dead /from their PoV) product
Jun 28 08:58:38 <DocScrutinizer> so unless this stuff eventually 'leaks' 'accidentally', I think the chances to go ahead with Nokia for this are exactly zero
Jun 28 09:00:05 <jonwil> I think many of the items can be solved via various community options.
Jun 28 09:00:12 <jonwil> well not all of them
Jun 28 09:00:14 <jonwil> but some
Jun 28 09:00:45 <jonwil> new media player is being done as oss
Jun 28 09:01:37 <cloudyLights> wish we could get the calender source
Jun 28 09:01:46 <cloudyLights> so I can add a few fields
Jun 28 09:02:37 <jonwil> calendar, dialer, messenging are closed for product differentation/UX reasons
Jun 28 09:03:07 <hiemanshu_N900> so is there a way i can tether my gprs via wifi or usb to my laptop? (no bt sadly)
Jun 28 09:03:20 <bindi> yes
Jun 28 09:03:27 <bindi> on windows you need to install pc suite 
Jun 28 09:03:28 <ruskie> mobilehotspot
Jun 28 09:03:39 <ruskie> juikospot(or whatever that other thing is)
Jun 28 09:03:43 <bindi> joiku
Jun 28 09:03:46 <ruskie> a few other random scripts
Jun 28 09:03:50 <bindi> on ubuntu it works out of the box :>
Jun 28 09:03:55 <DocScrutinizer> yoghurt sport
Jun 28 09:03:55 <bindi> i never got joiku/mobile to work
Jun 28 09:03:59 <hiemanshu_N900> isnt joiku paid?
Jun 28 09:04:37 <nid0> joiku is, mobilehotspot isnt
Jun 28 09:04:40 <ruskie> hence why mobilehotspot exists
Jun 28 09:04:48 <hiemanshu_N900> ah
Jun 28 09:04:53 <ruskie> and there is atleast one custom script for the same thing as well
Jun 28 09:06:14 <DocScrutinizer> hence why Nokia used yoghurt for N9/harmattan
Jun 28 09:06:20 <hiemanshu_N900> mobilehotspot is in -devel I assume?
Jun 28 09:06:40 <nid0> no, extras afaik
Jun 28 09:07:01 <DocScrutinizer> it's probably cheaper to buy that paid cruft rather than wrap their heads around mobilehotspot
Jun 28 09:07:30 <hiemanshu_N900> DocScrutinizer: hah. well its a one time thing
Jun 28 09:07:50 <hiemanshu_N900> i forgot my 3G modem at home and this coffee shop has no wifi
Jun 28 09:08:02 <ruskie> DocScrutinizer, I do hope it'll be possible to remove it
Jun 28 09:08:17 <ruskie> atleast with my insane ripping of everything from the system I can it would be nice
Jun 28 09:08:36 <DocScrutinizer> ruskie: sure, any time - in developer mode
Jun 28 09:09:04 <ruskie> erm...
Jun 28 09:09:09 <ruskie> ugh
Jun 28 09:09:11 <ruskie> ewwww
Jun 28 09:10:18 <jjo> MasseR: there were some meta packages that you could select
Jun 28 09:10:51 <MasseR> jjo: Found them. Nokia-binaries and such
Jun 28 09:11:02 <crashanddie> http://capslockday.com/
Jun 28 09:11:19 <jjo> yes plus memo-sdk-runtime, maemo-sdk-dev and maemo-sdk-debug
Jun 28 09:11:40 <jjo> depending on what you want
Jun 28 09:12:51 <MasseR> jjo: I think the sdk installer installed them
Jun 28 09:13:06 <hiemanshu_N900> ok reboot time
Jun 28 09:13:09 <MasseR> If I try to 'af-sb-init.sh start' xephyr windows gets a nice pink clock and nothing else
Jun 28 09:13:29 <jjo> MasseR: oh yes, it does
Jun 28 09:20:14 <MasseR> jjo: Seems like I don't have any themes
Jun 28 09:20:30 <MasseR> The clock opens the normal panel, where I can see .. clock and the ui looks normal gtk theme
Jun 28 09:34:48 <MasseR> Should I update the sources list to fremantle-1.3?
Jun 28 09:57:52 <user0-> if you have all 3 repos enabled and an app is found in all 3
Jun 28 09:59:01 <user0-> installing it using FAM would get you the version from devel correct?
Jun 28 09:59:02 <SpeedEvil> highest version
Jun 28 09:59:17 <user0-> ty
Jun 28 10:06:10 <MasseR> Dammit I'm close to giving up
Jun 28 10:06:16 <MasseR> Can't get any themes to work
Jun 28 10:10:08 <MasseR> Okay this is better, at least now I got home screen looking okay
Jun 28 10:10:15 <MasseR> But all the widgets are still normal gray widgets
Jun 28 10:14:21 <MasseR> Oh isn't this nice. All of the maemo links are redirected to n9. Even the user guide points to N9
Jun 28 10:17:09 <alterego> 530 candidates for 250 devices
Jun 28 10:17:16 <alterego> Not as bad as I originally thought
Jun 28 10:17:57 <MasseR> Hmm.. The theme tries to load images from /etc/hildon/images o.O
Jun 28 10:18:06 <MasseR> Hmm.. The theme tries to load images from /etc/hildon/theme/images o.O
Jun 28 10:18:17 <psycho_oreos> if only Nokia could have produced more than just 250
Jun 28 10:18:32 <andre__> why does everybody think that there's only 250?
Jun 28 10:18:58 <psycho_oreos> there's a few places that says there's only 250 available :)
Jun 28 10:19:10 <psycho_oreos> one of them is that thread
Jun 28 10:19:11 <andre__> yeah. for ***device program***
Jun 28 10:19:11 <alterego> psy	there are a _lot_ more than 2250 ..
Jun 28 10:19:15 <pabs3> available != produced
Jun 28 10:19:28 <alterego> Erm, There are a lot more than 250 ..
Jun 28 10:19:38 * pabs3 heard orders of magnitude more
Jun 28 10:19:39 <psycho_oreos> produced?
Jun 28 10:19:43 <robbiethe1st> Figure at least 1K, probably more like 10K+
Jun 28 10:20:03 <RST38h> andre: Being only 250 of them makes the whole situation more dramatic!
Jun 28 10:20:06 <robbiethe1st> some will be sold off as developer devices
Jun 28 10:20:13 <robbiethe1st> some loaned
Jun 28 10:20:53 <psycho_oreos> the thing is qgil stated 250, granted they maybe more however there's no concise evidence is there?
Jun 28 10:21:10 <robbiethe1st> There *are* more. 250 for the OSS dev program
Jun 28 10:21:12 <psycho_oreos> s/they/there/
Jun 28 10:21:12 <infobot> psycho_oreos meant: the thing is qgil stated 250, granted there maybe more however there's no concise evidence is there?
Jun 28 10:21:18 <robbiethe1st> and some for the commercial dev program
Jun 28 10:21:25 <alterego> psycho_oreos: there is plenty of evidence there is
Jun 28 10:21:40 <alterego> psycho_oreos: quim only said that there were 250 for the MeeGo.com developer programme
Jun 28 10:21:42 <robbiethe1st> ...I wonder: So, say you get one of these devices as a loan, and manage to lose it, or have it stolen. You can't exactly just replace it, nor can any insurance company... what would you do?
Jun 28 10:21:53 <alterego> psycho_oreos: if you're a developer you can try your luck at developer.nokia.com/swipe
Jun 28 10:21:56 <robbiethe1st> Especially as it's only a Loan from Nokia?
Jun 28 10:22:21 <lardman> Presumably you would then move to an N9
Jun 28 10:22:24 <psycho_oreos> robbiethe1st, sure enough but if that was the case why does it only appear that the only way one can obtain it is through the develop program?
Jun 28 10:22:27 <X-Fade> robbiethe1st: You'll be banned for ever.
Jun 28 10:22:36 <lardman> X-Fade: that too ;)
Jun 28 10:22:39 <andre__> robbiethe1st, IANAL
Jun 28 10:22:44 <alterego> robbiethe1st: it's a loan, but quim said, when the N9 is released it will be possible for those that have got an N950 from the MeeGo DDP can either keep it or trade it for an N9
Jun 28 10:23:01 <robbiethe1st> Interesting
Jun 28 10:23:05 <psycho_oreos> alterego, yes but there's no evidence of exactly how many were produced :)
Jun 28 10:23:14 <alterego> robbiethe1st: if you lose, break, or damage it in anyway, then you're silly :P
Jun 28 10:23:21 <jaska> not sure which sane person would trade a n950 for n9
Jun 28 10:23:23 <alterego> And no, no warranty, no replacements.
Jun 28 10:23:24 <lardman> When do we find out if we've qualified, that's the question - though someone may have already answered that
Jun 28 10:23:36 <alterego> jaska: I will, if I can't get an N9 any other way.
Jun 28 10:23:41 <lardman> jaska: Yeah, but in terms of dev hw
Jun 28 10:23:45 <psycho_oreos> I think you might get an email if you were selected
Jun 28 10:23:54 <alterego> The N9 will at least get more support than an N950, we don't even know if the N950 will get updated in line with the N9
Jun 28 10:23:56 <robbiethe1st> alterego: Yea, that makes sense, but my real question was: would you have to pay Nokia back for the lost device, and if so, what sort of value would they use?
Jun 28 10:23:59 * pabs3 wonders if the 280 folks who will miss out on the MeeGo N950 program would have a chance to buy or otherwise get an N950
Jun 28 10:24:05 <alterego> robbiethe1st: neah
Jun 28 10:24:24 <lardman> pabs3: are there 530 requests in then?
Jun 28 10:24:29 <alterego> pabs3: like I said, if you can't get one through the DDP, then go direct to developer.nokia.com/swipe with your proposals.
Jun 28 10:24:43 <alterego> lardman: quim just said 530 applicants on twitter
Jun 28 10:24:48 <lardman> oh ok
Jun 28 10:24:48 <robbiethe1st> I've heard of people losing their N900s(or frying them via getting water/etc spilled on, etc)...
Jun 28 10:24:56 <psycho_oreos> pabs3, I'd love to get N950 if I can't get it through dev program. I　wouldn't want to put up with a N9 unless I really had no other choice
Jun 28 10:25:25 <robbiethe1st> psycho_oreos: Same here. N9 = not interesting. N950 is interesting.
Jun 28 10:25:43 <alterego> robbiethe1st: you're not under any liability with the DDP, they're not going to get hitmen or bailiffs if you break it ;)
Jun 28 10:25:53 <robbiethe1st> OK, that's good.
Jun 28 10:26:30 <psycho_oreos> N900 is a different case lol, I think there's still shops that sells N900, N950 is like a `rareified' thing. If you lose it/destroy it/etc you pretty much won't have another chance at owning one unless you work inside Nokia for instance ;)
Jun 28 10:26:51 <robbiethe1st> Yea
Jun 28 10:26:54 <alterego> Or you have good friends ;)
Jun 28 10:26:57 <jaska> this being rare loot irritates me :|
Jun 28 10:27:00 <SpeedEvil> 'I accidentally sold it on ebay'
Jun 28 10:27:03 <psycho_oreos> yeah people networking
Jun 28 10:27:26 <SpeedEvil> Rare is silly.
Jun 28 10:28:21 <psycho_oreos> robbiethe1st, though if N950 isn't available through any other means than for one to be a developer and the time limit to join was up, would you get N9 instead? or would you just completely give up the whole Nokia meego move?
Jun 28 10:28:37 <robbiethe1st> Sold on ebay nothing; Not knowing that you might get a chance to keep your N950, I was wondering how many people might, at the end of their loan, decide to keep it and proclaim it lost. Sure, you couldn't use it on the cellphone network, but... 
Jun 28 10:28:44 <alterego> psycho_oreos: move? You mean the last of it's kin ;)
Jun 28 10:28:55 <psycho_oreos> rare isn't silly, N950 wasn't made public which clearly indicates Nokia only wants to give out as little units as they can
Jun 28 10:28:58 <robbiethe1st> psycho_oreos: N900+OC+Harmatton would be the next choice
Jun 28 10:29:14 <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure if they're actually going to bother asking for them back at the end of the term.
Jun 28 10:29:20 <SpeedEvil> 3yo phones are not worth much
Jun 28 10:29:25 <psycho_oreos> alterego, well I could also mean move on ;)
Jun 28 10:29:28 <robbiethe1st> ...Or just keep messing with the N900 until some more decent meego devices will come out.
Jun 28 10:29:59 <psycho_oreos> robbiethe1st, *nods*
Jun 28 10:30:10 <MasseR> Is there btw any official updates for N900 anymore?
Jun 28 10:30:15 <SpeedEvil> Having said that - earlier there was a corporate dev that found one in a drawer.
Jun 28 10:30:15 <robbiethe1st> No.
Jun 28 10:30:20 <SpeedEvil> Unloved by the company.
Jun 28 10:30:30 <psycho_oreos> N950
Jun 28 10:30:31 <psycho_oreos> ?
Jun 28 10:30:32 <MasseR> So N900 is 'dead' except for the community
Jun 28 10:30:32 <SpeedEvil> That's the sort of phone it'd probably end up better on ebay
Jun 28 10:30:33 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jun 28 10:30:50 <psycho_oreos> damn! sounds like there's plenty of love if that were to be sold :D
Jun 28 10:30:53 <SpeedEvil> There are no new n900 official updates
Jun 28 10:31:05 <SpeedEvil> Since last year sometime
Jun 28 10:31:09 <SpeedEvil> feb? Mar?
Jun 28 10:31:10 <MohammadAG> so, anyone got an email for an N950?
Jun 28 10:31:18 <psycho_oreos> I　personally haven't
Jun 28 10:31:31 <alterego> MohammadAG: they'll be sent out by the end of the week, don't panic :P
Jun 28 10:31:32 <SpeedEvil> Not me.
Jun 28 10:31:37 <alterego> The deadline is not even up yet.
Jun 28 10:31:40 <MasseR> Damn these themes :D. 
Jun 28 10:31:58 <psycho_oreos> alterego, though they did mention 28th of June for applications on that forum thread :)
Jun 28 10:32:00 <lardman> nor have I, but wasn't the closing date today? Or are we thinking of the comment about some obvious decisions being made before today?
Jun 28 10:32:28 <alterego> psycho_oreos: it is still the 28th of June ;)
Jun 28 10:32:41 <psycho_oreos> yeah the thread was dated end of applications 28th of June
Jun 28 10:32:47 <DocScrutinizer> given the way the council elections used to be organized, I don't expect any email at all :-P
Jun 28 10:32:52 <Hurrian> since the n950's a loaner device, wont they collect them after 3 years?
Jun 28 10:33:01 <alterego> psycho_oreos: quim literally said a few minutes ago that all need to be in "by tomorrow" presumable to save people hassle from time zones.
Jun 28 10:33:09 <Hurrian> not exactly what i'd put on ebay
Jun 28 10:33:13 <MohammadAG> alterego, leaving town on 7/7, no address there
Jun 28 10:33:16 <alterego> Hurrian: actually you'll probably only have the N950 for a few months
Jun 28 10:33:20 <psycho_oreos> alterego, *shrugs* I guess its a matter of waiting and hoping :)
Jun 28 10:33:27 <MohammadAG> so if I do get the device, I'll have to delay that
Jun 28 10:33:43 <alterego> MohammadAG: once you get the coupon code, you can "order" it anytime you like.
Jun 28 10:33:54 <psycho_oreos> alterego, its also funny to note that he didn't mention which timezone was it. So I had to sort of compensate by going against my timezone (GMT+10H)
Jun 28 10:33:55 * SpeedEvil ponders 'clear cases'. Eldar, of course.
Jun 28 10:34:49 <alterego> psycho_oreos: that is why I think he said tomorrow, so basically anyone submitting before 23:59 tonight in any timezone ;)
Jun 28 10:34:59 <alterego> psycho_oreos: anyway, Quim is currently in Europe :P
Jun 28 10:34:59 <psycho_oreos> someone also said in the other channel about TexRat processed 400 (!!) odd applications already
Jun 28 10:35:01 <Hurrian> how much do we have to spend to pay someone to design the PCBs from a modified N900 schematic and produce them?
Jun 28 10:35:03 * lardman looks for a goat to sacrifice to the N950 selection committee Gods
Jun 28 10:35:08 <Hurrian> i'm guessing $$$$$$
Jun 28 10:35:20 <MohammadAG> alterego, I'm leaving for a month or two :p
Jun 28 10:35:31 <psycho_oreos> alterego, true but which part? ;) anyhow I guess I'll just hang tight and hope :D
Jun 28 10:35:32 <alterego> MohammadAG: give me your coupon code, I'll look after it for you ;)
Jun 28 10:35:34 <SpeedEvil> Hurrian: you can't get the nokia modem parts
Jun 28 10:35:35 * MohammadAG passes one abill_uk to lardman 
Jun 28 10:35:40 <SpeedEvil> Hurrian: you'd need to redesign it
Jun 28 10:35:42 <alterego> psycho_oreos: Finland :P
Jun 28 10:35:53 <psycho_oreos> alterego, ahh!
Jun 28 10:36:09 * lardman gets his most blunt sacrificial knife
Jun 28 10:36:25 * SpeedEvil gets his sacrificial pillow.
Jun 28 10:36:31 <robbiethe1st> SpeedEvil: Buy a few broken N900s, yank the chips off?
Jun 28 10:36:40 <psycho_oreos> Hurrian, I suppose instead of starting from scratch, you could probably base some of the ideas off that OM device.. too bad it lacks plenty of things that N900 has
Jun 28 10:37:12 <jaska> wouldnt a sacrificial wooden spoon hurt more
Jun 28 10:37:21 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: (delay) no issue as you get a token to receive your device from devel.nokia.com. I don't think the token epires
Jun 28 10:37:29 <DocScrutinizer> expires*
Jun 28 10:37:44 <Hurrian> speedevil , we can't just buy replacement BB5 chips?
Jun 28 10:37:55 <SpeedEvil> No
Jun 28 10:38:05 <DocScrutinizer> aah, alterego beat me to it
Jun 28 10:38:12 <Hurrian> psycho_oreos , OpenMoko is the very definition of fragmentation
Jun 28 10:38:15 <robbiethe1st> Any other cheap nokia phones have that chip?
Jun 28 10:38:18 <psycho_oreos> I'm sure if one's token expires, they can just ask qgil :) its like Nokia is planning to chuck the device elsewhere however :)
Jun 28 10:38:29 <MohammadAG> I'll delay the trip, if I'm accepted anyways
Jun 28 10:38:41 <lardman> jaska: good call
Jun 28 10:39:01 <alterego> MohammadAG: seriously, I'll look after it for you ;)
Jun 28 10:39:03 <psycho_oreos> Hurrian, granted but at least for the running hardware stuff to get one started its not too bad of a start comparing to starting from literally a clean slate.. or maybe even a beagle board :)
Jun 28 10:39:10 <Hurrian> if we can't get an embedded BB, we can just use some USB 3G baseband
Jun 28 10:39:21 <MohammadAG> alterego, aww, how nice of you
Jun 28 10:39:38 <Hurrian> then again, we can trash the n900's awful positioning of components and start from scratch with an all new SOC
Jun 28 10:40:08 <MohammadAG> Actually I have an address where I'm going, but I wouldn't trust that place
Jun 28 10:40:16 <robbiethe1st> What about going to an oem like Aeva for such a device?
Jun 28 10:40:23 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: Hurrian: (modem parts) you can get - buy a 5800 or whatever ;-)
Jun 28 10:40:25 <MohammadAG> I'd expect the N950 would be stolen/sold if I send it there
Jun 28 10:40:30 <jaska> theyd probably charge you thru the nose
Jun 28 10:40:50 <psycho_oreos> Aava? they're mainly interested in x86 platform mind you :)
Jun 28 10:40:57 <robbiethe1st> Well, yes.
Jun 28 10:41:19 <psycho_oreos> what about those chinese knockoff clones? I'm sure you might be able to ask them for some of the modem parts that they used ;)
Jun 28 10:41:27 <jaska> x86 is fine.. if you happen to have invented some sort of vacuum energy source
Jun 28 10:41:50 <robbiethe1st> Hey, they got 4hrs+ of WoW out of that prototype Aeva phone, so...
Jun 28 10:42:04 <robbiethe1st> Our N900 can't do more than 2 hours of CPU pegged...
Jun 28 10:42:21 <SpeedEvil> psycho_oreos: Most of the chinese knockoffs are gprs
Jun 28 10:42:22 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: do you trust your neighbours?
Jun 28 10:42:39 <Hurrian> robbiethe1st: that would cost $$$$$$$$$ than $$$$$$ it would require to self-design the board and produce enough for TMO
Jun 28 10:42:53 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: NB you can choose arbitrary shipping addr
Jun 28 10:43:11 <psycho_oreos> SpeedEvil, true but not all :)
Jun 28 10:44:16 <psycho_oreos> they (Aava Oy) haven't released the specs of their Aava mobile, so its not a fair competition imo ;)
Jun 28 10:44:26 <DocScrutinizer> naaw, guys. If you're going to build a N900 replica, you want to go for modem module
Jun 28 10:44:35 <psycho_oreos> it might even be equipped with 2000+ MAh battery
Jun 28 10:45:00 <psycho_oreos> s/MAh/mAh/
Jun 28 10:45:01 <infobot> psycho_oreos meant: it might even be equipped with 2000+ mAh battery
Jun 28 10:45:07 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, no, I only trust my address for this kind of stuff :P
Jun 28 10:45:11 <DocScrutinizer> a module like that one: 
Jun 28 10:45:13 <Hurrian> Doc : completely right ;)
Jun 28 10:45:17 <DocScrutinizer> a module like that one: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=551420#post551420
Jun 28 10:45:24 <MohammadAG> if the device was mine that's one thing
Jun 28 10:45:31 <mece> alterego, your (I guess you're @thomasswindell) tweets made me nervous. I had been able to block that out all day...
Jun 28 10:45:47 <Hurrian> completely upgradeable, replaceable parts
Jun 28 10:45:49 <MohammadAG> but it's Nokia's
Jun 28 10:46:20 <alterego> mece: yes, that's me ;)
Jun 28 10:46:35 <kerio> MohammadAG: use my shipping address!
Jun 28 10:46:40 <Hurrian> too bad nokia's not letting devs buy devkits :(
Jun 28 10:46:53 <kerio> Hurrian: i bet that's elop's strategy
Jun 28 10:47:01 <kerio> "we don't have any devs for the meego platform"
Jun 28 10:47:09 <Hurrian> they'll probably throw the devices in the bin after collecting them
Jun 28 10:47:12 <MohammadAG> kerio, IF I get accepted
Jun 28 10:47:21 <Hurrian> anyone in finland want to dumpster-dive nokia?
Jun 28 10:47:26 <mece> MohammadAG, can haz url to enhanced lockscreen git plz?
Jun 28 10:47:45 <MohammadAG> maemo5-foss-lockscreen
Jun 28 10:47:45 <jaska> they probably destroy protos
Jun 28 10:47:46 <psycho_oreos> I'm hoping at the end of one's loaned term, one has a choice to either keep it or trade it for N9.. by then I'm sure the majority of the devs would prefer to keep N950. If that's not the case I think people will think of ways to retain their N950　:)
Jun 28 10:47:53 <mece> Hurrian, I've got a friend in hw design.. what do you need?
Jun 28 10:47:57 <MohammadAG> mece, add that after gitorious.org/
Jun 28 10:48:04 <mece> MohammadAG, thanks
Jun 28 10:48:19 <Hurrian> mece, still thinking what the hell should a community device have
Jun 28 10:48:36 <Hurrian> psycho_oreos , fake identities?
Jun 28 10:49:12 <mece> Hurrian, oh.. :)
Jun 28 10:49:26 <mece> MohammadAG, well it was a little bit more complicated it seems.. https://gitorious.org/maemo5-foss-lockscreen/enhanced-lockscreen
Jun 28 10:49:58 <MohammadAG> mece, I'm on the N900, sue me :P
Jun 28 10:50:27 <MohammadAG> I should figure out where my Nokia Developer emails go
Jun 28 10:50:43 <MohammadAG> or MeeGo.com ones for that matter
Jun 28 10:50:49 <mece> MohammadAG, np :)
Jun 28 10:50:52 <psycho_oreos> Hurrian, they'll have their own ways I think :). It would be absolutely ludicruous imo for the devs to have to cough up these loaned devices after having developed with them. Furthermore what is Nokia going to do with all these used N950? dump it? what a waste of perfectly useful hardware and keeping it out of people's hands
Jun 28 10:51:38 <alterego> Quim said we'll have yes/no email notifications
Jun 28 10:51:45 <alterego> So we'll all know either way, btw.
Jun 28 10:51:55 <pabs3> excellent
Jun 28 10:52:19 <MohammadAG> no notifications? /me cries
Jun 28 10:52:54 <Hurrian> psycho_oreos , well, what better way to kill off the "keyboard devices" maemo people want than to collect and dump them?
Jun 28 10:53:07 <psycho_oreos> in the very least I hope if Nokia is that understanding, they should sell the loaned N950 as a way of showing some appreciation to the parties involved. If they were to destroy it after collecting it all back, its just a waste and showing the lack of love
Jun 28 10:53:12 <Hurrian> anyways, it'd be interesting to see nokia's dumpsters after they've collected them
Jun 28 10:53:20 <MohammadAG> I wonder if non-devs applied
Jun 28 10:53:38 <MohammadAG> the 700+ applications seem weird
Jun 28 10:53:38 <alterego> psycho_oreos: Nokia have a great recycling programme ..
Jun 28 10:53:47 <alterego> MohammadAG: 530 as of 20 minutes ago
Jun 28 10:53:49 <psycho_oreos> Hurrian, I don't think they'd just dump them... they probably crush it. In either case I think its unlikely and its really waste of resource in the first place
Jun 28 10:53:53 <Jaffa> I bet lots of non-devs applied.
Jun 28 10:54:00 <psycho_oreos> alterego, yeah that's what I thought
Jun 28 10:54:00 <alterego> 700 is what I said yesterday when Quim said 250 x 3 :P
Jun 28 10:54:02 <Jaffa> I also bet the "loan" is exactly like the N900 & ExoPC
Jun 28 10:54:07 <mece> MohammadAG, I'm guessing a lot of would-be-devs applied
Jun 28 10:54:13 <Jaffa> i.e. it's a legal instrument to avoid taxes/gifts etc.
Jun 28 10:54:18 <MohammadAG> we don't have that many devs
Jun 28 10:54:26 <Jaffa> The return request will never be actioned
Jun 28 10:54:26 <Hurrian> if they don't dump them, i'm heading straight to eBay and F5ing like the fist of the north star
Jun 28 10:54:30 <mece> Jaffa, I REALLY hope so. But not as much as I hop I'll actually get the damn thing.
Jun 28 10:54:41 <mece> khertan_, khteditor for harmattan ready yet?
Jun 28 10:54:49 <lcuk> MohammadAG, more devs than those that use irc
Jun 28 10:54:50 <alterego> Jaffa: did anyone actually send the Amsterdam protos back?
Jun 28 10:55:07 <Jaffa> alterego: I know people were asking if people still had the address. I just stayed quiet.
Jun 28 10:55:09 <khertan_> mece, not really
Jun 28 10:55:16 <MohammadAG> lcuk, talk.maemo.org has like 20 devs
Jun 28 10:55:16 <MohammadAG> 50 at most
Jun 28 10:55:18 <mece> alterego, @thomaslp still has his at least.
Jun 28 10:55:35 <alterego> mece: I know a few people that still have theirs
Jun 28 10:55:35 <khertan_> mece, i was waiting for answer on how to do complex text with this dumb qml
Jun 28 10:55:48 <alterego> I know one person that got his replaced via Nokia Care after the USB port came out
Jun 28 10:55:48 <ruskie> http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone <-- could see this applying to all the touch-only devices ;)
Jun 28 10:55:55 <lcuk> khertan_, one rectangle per character
Jun 28 10:55:56 <MohammadAG> alterego, so that's 250*2.x
Jun 28 10:56:11 <khertan_> lcuk, and one cpu to manage each line ? :)
Jun 28 10:56:13 <alterego> MohammadAG: yes, but I'm just going by what Quim is saying :P
Jun 28 10:56:19 <Jaffa> alterego: I think I got mine replaced because of audio drop out.
Jun 28 10:56:26 <khertan_> lcuk, we are talking of qml ... :)
Jun 28 10:56:30 <MohammadAG> alterego, I hit a brick wall with QML yesterday
Jun 28 10:56:39 <mece> MohammadAG, what was the wall?
Jun 28 10:56:39 <alterego> MohammadAG: what wall is that?
Jun 28 10:56:40 <lcuk> khertan_, sure
Jun 28 10:56:50 * Jaffa looks forward to using achipa's code at dAG> alterego, I hit a brick wall with QML yesterday
Jun 28 10:57:19 * Jaffa looks forward to using achipa's code at https://projects.developer.nokia.com/qtinfo/browser/trunk/qtquickinfolib/qtquickinfo.cpp to detect Qt Quick Component being present
Jun 28 10:57:28 <Jaffa> ..and set a different root file in that circumstance.
Jun 28 10:57:34 <achipa> Jaffa: it ain't pretty, but it does work until we have something more elegant
Jun 28 10:57:46 * khertan_ reach the normandy wall each time it try to do qml
Jun 28 10:57:52 <khertan_> s/it/he
Jun 28 10:57:54 <mece> achipa, wait, what does it do exactly?
Jun 28 10:58:01 <Jaffa> achipa: I'd tried something similar but hadn't got the convenience of the QDeclarativeView and the knowledge to check stats() == Ready
Jun 28 10:58:03 <lcuk> Jaffa, you need to use .cpp to make qml changes?
Jun 28 10:58:09 <lcuk> do you use "sed" to do the change?
Jun 28 10:58:25 <alterego> You don't need to load separate main.qml files to select which qt-components you're using
Jun 28 10:58:37 <MohammadAG> alterego, suppose I have a signal, urlChanged(string url)
Jun 28 10:58:47 <Jaffa> lcuk: No, I'm going to have main.cpp set the root QML element to either one which imports com.meego and uses a PageStackWindow containing my app's Main.qml, or set the root to Main.qml directly.
Jun 28 10:58:49 <alterego> Not realy, it can all be done in QML, as long as you have a flag that says: "meego-ux-components", "qt-components" or "none"
Jun 28 10:58:51 <MohammadAG> I can handle that with onUrlChanged
Jun 28 10:59:03 <alterego> MohammadAG: m'hmm
Jun 28 10:59:03 <MohammadAG> how do I get "url" from the signal?
Jun 28 10:59:09 <Jaffa> alterego: Really? How? There seem to be *no* examples of that
Jun 28 10:59:24 <alterego> MohammadAG: onUrlChanged: function(url) {console.log(url)}
Jun 28 10:59:49 <alterego> Jaffa: well, it'd still require a C++ plugin to detect the presence of qt-components, or meego-ux-components
Jun 28 11:00:07 <alterego> Jaffa: I'm just saying you don't really need to have separate main.qml files ..
Jun 28 11:00:26 <MohammadAG> alterego, what's with function(url)?
Jun 28 11:00:40 <alterego> MohammadAG: it defines a function
Jun 28 11:00:50 <MohammadAG> yes but why? :p
Jun 28 11:00:51 <alterego> Which is called onUrlChanged signal
Jun 28 11:00:58 <alterego> MohammadAG: so you can specify the parameters.
Jun 28 11:01:30 <alterego> I _think_ you can just do: onUrlChanged: {console.log(url)}
Jun 28 11:01:47 <alterego> Where 'url' matches the _exact_ name of the parameter in the SIGNAL definition.
Jun 28 11:01:57 <alterego> (I think that should work)
Jun 28 11:02:07 <mece> alterego, Id use a property..
Jun 28 11:02:30 <alterego> mece: this is MohammadAG's code, and you don't even know what he's doing :P
Jun 28 11:02:35 <Jaffa> alterego: Yeah, I got that - but doesn't the "import" blow up?
Jun 28 11:02:46 <alterego> Jaffa: not if you do that bit at runtime.
Jun 28 11:02:46 <mece> alterego, yep I understand. 
Jun 28 11:03:10 <mece> MohammadAG, is the signal coming from some external object?
Jun 28 11:03:15 <Jaffa> alterego: I'm not sure how you're structuring the code then... Some Loader trick?
Jun 28 11:03:21 <alterego> Jaffa: you can dynamically create QML components at runtime, through the use of string source, or runtime loading of a .qml file.
Jun 28 11:03:21 <MohammadAG> external component
Jun 28 11:03:32 <alterego> Jaffa: effectively yes, a loader trick
Jun 28 11:03:33 <MohammadAG> alterego, I don't know what I'm doing tbh :P
Jun 28 11:04:47 <mece> MohammadAG, you can put a property that aliases url on the external component, and in the (not external) component you do an <external component>.onUrlChanged: { do something with <external component>.url }
Jun 28 11:05:03 <mece> MohammadAG, that way url is available outside the external component
Jun 28 11:05:12 <mece> MohammadAG, there are many other ways
Jun 28 11:05:48 <mece> depending on what you're trying to do :)
Jun 28 11:07:04 <frals> alterego: when doing onXChanged you can use X in the signal handler 
Jun 28 11:07:13 <frals> (re: < alterego> I _think_ you can just do: onUrlChanged: {console.log(url)})
Jun 28 11:07:42 <frals> ie no need for a function to specify parameters
Jun 28 11:07:49 <mece> frals, :)
Jun 28 11:07:54 <frals> even then you dont even have to specify the paramters in the defintion
Jun 28 11:08:08 <frals> you can do function bla() and reference using arguments[0]
Jun 28 11:08:23 <frals> with the possibility that the array is not called arguments but something similar
Jun 28 11:08:47 <alterego> frals: yeah, that's what I thougth
Jun 28 11:09:08 <MohammadAG> alterego, the other brick wall would be accessing C++ methods from QML
Jun 28 11:09:15 <MohammadAG> since this is something with #defines
Jun 28 11:09:27 <frals> why is c++ methods from qml a problem? O_o
Jun 28 11:09:32 * frals has not read whole convo btw
Jun 28 11:09:41 <alterego> MohammadAG: you just declare them as public slots and bind the object instance to the QML root context.
Jun 28 11:09:53 <frals> Q_INVOKABLE
Jun 28 11:09:59 <frals> (iirc)
Jun 28 11:10:09 <alterego> Or mark the as Q_INVOKABLE, which does the same thing
Jun 28 11:10:20 <alterego> I prefer just making them Q_SLOTS
Jun 28 11:10:39 <mece> or create an object, set it to the rootcontext and access methods directly from there.
Jun 28 11:10:52 <alterego> mece: that's exactly what I said :P
Jun 28 11:11:27 <mece> alterego, ah yes. missed that one.
Jun 28 11:12:10 <frals> wonder what setting it as rootcontext does to memory usage, if anything
Jun 28 11:12:15 * frals needs to read up on how that works
Jun 28 11:13:46 <mece> jaffa, that nfc hub thing you tweeted about is awesome. but now, even if I get the dev device I still don't have nfc :/
Jun 28 11:14:13 <alterego> mece: quim said you can swap N950 for N9 on release
Jun 28 11:14:17 <alterego> If you do so please.
Jun 28 11:14:25 <mece> alterego, i don't want to!
Jun 28 11:14:32 <alterego> Well, that's your problem :P
Jun 28 11:14:35 <mece> alterego, but I'll buy one.
Jun 28 11:14:43 <alterego> mece: that's the way to do it :)
Jun 28 11:14:47 <mece> alter :)
Jun 28 11:14:59 <mece> alterego, :) contract on N900 is up in november anyway
Jun 28 11:15:06 <mece> alterego, might as well get a new one
Jun 28 11:15:11 <frals> tbh, i prefer using my n9 over the n950...
Jun 28 11:15:18 <frals> not that i ever give up the n950 willingly
Jun 28 11:15:29 <mece> frals, do you code on device?
Jun 28 11:15:32 <alterego> mece: neat, I've got two dormant contracts that are up but I reduced their service plans to a minimum whilst waiting for possible ideas for upgrades.
Jun 28 11:15:49 <frals> mece: not atm, i guess that would be the reason to have the n950 ;)
Jun 28 11:15:52 <DocScrutinizer> frals: why?
Jun 28 11:16:09 <mece> frals, that is the reason I want it.
Jun 28 11:16:15 <frals> DocScrutinizer: unless i use ssh+irssi, the vkb is good enough for me
Jun 28 11:16:15 <DocScrutinizer> frals: why you prefer N9?
Jun 28 11:16:24 <Corsac> hmhm, do people applying to the dev device started to receive updates? the “final” day is supposed to be today isn't it?
Jun 28 11:16:29 <frals> the screen and feeling of n9 is just... *drool*
Jun 28 11:16:34 <DocScrutinizer> ok
Jun 28 11:16:41 <mece> frals, it is sexytiems
Jun 28 11:16:48 <frals> and my n9 is pink ;D
Jun 28 11:16:52 <DocScrutinizer> ouch
Jun 28 11:17:08 <lcuk> frals, do you still have your girly pillow too?
Jun 28 11:17:10 <mece> frals, and I understand completely. For general phoning and playing around I'd love the N9.
Jun 28 11:17:12 * lcuk is worried about you :P
Jun 28 11:17:16 <DocScrutinizer> hanna montana phone
Jun 28 11:17:17 <mece> LOL
Jun 28 11:17:21 <lcuk> haha
Jun 28 11:17:25 <frals> lcuk: the pink hello kitty pillow is my gfs! ;)
Jun 28 11:17:30 <lcuk> yeah right!
Jun 28 11:17:55 <alterego> Corsac: the deadline is 23:59 tonight in your timezone, you'll get yes/no email by the end of the week
Jun 28 11:18:40 <frals> lcuk: ;)
Jun 28 11:19:26 <lcuk> frals, since you are an awesome developer we will let you have your oddities :P
Jun 28 11:19:48 <frals> DocScrutinizer: however, if i know ill be spending some time where twitter/facebook/other websites wont be enough id bring the n950 so i could irc comfortably 
Jun 28 11:19:53 <mece> lcuk, does that mean I'm not allowed oddities?
Jun 28 11:20:14 <alterego> Heh
Jun 28 11:20:15 <Corsac> alterego: ok, thanks
Jun 28 11:20:25 <lcuk> mece, no, but we do have to redefine oddities just for you :P
Jun 28 11:21:15 <mece> LOL
Jun 28 11:23:20 <mece> Riussi, yay, moar n9 videos!
Jun 28 11:23:28 <Corsac> url?
Jun 28 11:23:49 <mece> oh damn, it wasn't a video
Jun 28 11:24:15 <mece> Corsac, http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/06/28/nokia-n9-opening-the-browser
Jun 28 11:26:04 <alterego> bbiab
Jun 28 11:26:22 <Hurrian> what the, are they forcing use of arial and nokia sans in the browser?
Jun 28 11:26:29 <Hurrian> shoot me.
Jun 28 11:27:37 <cloudyLights> DocScrutinizer what is cellular RNC ID?
Jun 28 11:27:46 <cloudyLights> I see it in netmon
Jun 28 11:28:36 <Jaffa> alterego: (Belatedly) OK, so there are multiple QML files, but the root one makes the decision (via an Item and a Loader) rather than the main.cpp?
Jun 28 11:29:04 <mece> Hurrian, I doubt that...
Jun 28 11:30:02 <mece> Hurrian, but it does seem to display mobile websites, which makes me cry a little inside
Jun 28 11:30:20 * lardman feels exhausted, that was a rubbish paper I just reviewed
Jun 28 11:30:52 <lardman> so what do we know about the camera app, is it plugable?
Jun 28 11:35:58 <Hurrian> mece ++
Jun 28 11:36:00 <DocScrutinizer51> cloudyLights: no idea
Jun 28 11:36:09 <DocScrutinizer51> O here
Jun 28 11:36:10 <Hurrian> nokia, y u no use desktop user-agent
Jun 28 11:36:42 <cloudyLights> jonwil: what is RNC?
Jun 28 11:36:45 <lardman> cloudyLights: Google? Comes up with some techno-speak for it
Jun 28 11:36:45 <cloudyLights> rnc id
Jun 28 11:37:02 <jonwil> I have no idea what RNC is
Jun 28 11:37:05 <cloudyLights> I dont understand what google answered
Jun 28 11:37:06 <lardman> http://www.scribd.com/doc/51148270/16/RNC-IDENTITY
Jun 28 11:37:19 <cloudyLights> a sort of ID?
Jun 28 11:37:31 <cloudyLights> for the cellular subscribber?
Jun 28 11:37:38 <cloudyLights> so - it doesnt change...
Jun 28 11:37:38 <lardman> radio network controller id
Jun 28 11:38:04 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.google.de/search?q="rnc+id"+gsm
Jun 28 11:38:08 <cloudyLights> my is 61 
Jun 28 11:38:59 <alterego> Jaffa: that's the idea yeah.
Jun 28 11:40:04 <DocScrutinizer> lardman: now THAT IS ONE POS of a page you linked up there
Jun 28 11:40:21 <lardman> docscrutinizer: The wonders of Google ;)
Jun 28 11:40:41 <lardman> it did say what the acronym stands for, or at least it sounded reasonable :)
Jun 28 11:40:57 <DocScrutinizer> loading 2 minutes, ~600 picures loading. Then displaying broken useless shit
Jun 28 11:41:05 <lardman> ouch
Jun 28 11:41:37 <lardman> ah well FF5 actually worked on that page, rather than using 100% of one of my cores for the plugin-container process
Jun 28 11:43:55 <DocScrutinizer> RNC ID == ID of the controller of a node-B (UMTS BTS)
Jun 28 11:44:10 <alterego> I think we're about to have a rather interesting storm ..
Jun 28 11:45:08 <lardman> alterego: metaphorical?
Jun 28 11:45:15 <MasseR> \o/ sdk installed. Took me like 5 hours
Jun 28 11:46:16 <alterego> No, the thunder is literally deafening :D
Jun 28 11:46:30 <lardman> oh right, it's actually brightening up here
Jun 28 11:46:45 <alterego> I think I'll record this shit when it starts :D
Jun 28 11:46:59 <lardman> alterego: as long as you're not using mains power ;)
Jun 28 11:47:04 <alterego> Heh
Jun 28 11:47:20 <DocScrutinizer> cloudyLights: used to construct long CellIDs:  Long CID=99494171.  99494171 / 65536 = 1518 Rest 10523  -> RNC==1518,   short CID=10523
Jun 28 11:47:25 <alterego> Turned off all plugs for the next few hours, running off batteries ;)
Jun 28 11:47:46 * lardman wonders about phone lines....
Jun 28 11:48:07 <lardman> I guess a wireless hub is pretty cheap to replace
Jun 28 11:48:30 <cloudyLights> thnaks
Jun 28 11:49:01 <alterego> I'm using 3G
Jun 28 11:49:23 <alterego> starting to rain :)
Jun 28 12:18:22 * RST38h reMoos
Jun 28 12:18:26 <RST38h> So, what have I missed?
Jun 28 12:19:43 <cloudyLights> last night I saw some comparation between thr N9 and the N950
Jun 28 12:20:06 <cloudyLights> they had pictures of the N950 in black
Jun 28 12:20:28 <cloudyLights> what is the processor in the N9/950?
Jun 28 12:20:43 <cloudyLights> 1Ghz? dual core? new omap right
Jun 28 12:20:46 <psycho_oreos> TI　OMAP 3530
Jun 28 12:20:50 <psycho_oreos> no dual core
Jun 28 12:20:52 <cloudyLights> probably a dsp, 
Jun 28 12:21:34 <cloudyLights> what is the dsp used for? 
Jun 28 12:21:59 <lardman> video decoding presumably like on the n900
Jun 28 12:22:39 <cloudyLights> powerVR ... 
Jun 28 12:22:58 <lardman> is for opengl es not e.g. mpeg
Jun 28 12:23:16 <psycho_oreos> s/5/6/
Jun 28 12:23:26 <RST38h> lardman: BTW, got an android 2.3 gadget and DDMS nearby?
Jun 28 12:23:48 <lardman> not nearby, Tab w/ 2.3 at home
Jun 28 12:23:52 <lardman> what's DDMS?
Jun 28 12:24:08 <RST38h> lardman: the tool required to view debug messages printed from android apps
Jun 28 12:24:26 <lardman> ah ok, well I should have that too from the SDK
Jun 28 12:25:46 <lardman> RST38h: do you need something debugged?
Jun 28 12:26:14 <lardman> I won't have time this evening, off to see TF3, but can bring the Tab in with me tomorrow and do live debugging if that would be of use?
Jun 28 12:26:24 * lardman checks to see that there's a Windows version of the SDK
Jun 28 12:28:51 <Jaffa> You know how we were discussing forum.meego.com going TMO-like yesterday? It's already started
Jun 28 12:29:05 <lardman> probably just an effect of a forum
Jun 28 12:29:26 <lardman> tmo was ok before many people actually used or cared about the devices
Jun 28 12:30:10 <ilon> is there any way to make a "share image" (usally for upload to facebook/flickr) to upload to a server using SSH?
Jun 28 12:30:35 <lardman> Jaffa: perhaps a forum which requires a valid IMEI to access it? :)
Jun 28 12:30:49 <ilon> basicly, i have a webserver, and want to be able to easy publish photos etc to it, should be possible thru the use of pub-key for ssh
Jun 28 12:31:13 <Corsac> ilon: there's a command line sharing plugin
Jun 28 12:31:27 <Corsac> which you can give a ssh command to
Jun 28 12:31:28 <Termana> lardman, most of the bozos on tmo are owners anyway
Jun 28 12:31:38 <Termana> (unfortunately)
Jun 28 12:31:44 <lardman> Termana: yeah, but that's the danger of releasing to more than just devs
Jun 28 12:31:57 <ilon> Corsac: would it be possible to integrate in the GUI as a service?
Jun 28 12:33:00 <ilon> Corsac: http://my-maemo.com/software/applications.php?fldAuto=1783&faq=37 seems like something similair for FTP, but requires a pixelpipe account
Jun 28 12:33:54 <Corsac> ilon: it's already a service?
Jun 28 12:35:08 <ilon> Corsac: not that i know of
Jun 28 12:36:18 <Corsac> then I guess you're wrong?
Jun 28 12:36:48 <ilon> Corsac: which one are you talking about then?
Jun 28 12:37:00 <Corsac> https://garage.maemo.org/projects/sharing-cli/ ?
Jun 28 12:37:12 <ilon> Corsac: yeah, that is still CLI tho.
Jun 28 12:37:29 <ilon> Corsac: what i asked about was a one integrated in the GUI
Jun 28 12:37:40 <Corsac> it *is* integrated in the gui
Jun 28 12:37:48 <Corsac> you just have to configure the service once
Jun 28 12:37:53 <ilon> Corsac: the i will just shut up and read. :)
Jun 28 12:37:53 <Corsac> then you just share like any sharing service
Jun 28 12:38:00 <ilon> Corsac: and thank you very much.
Jun 28 12:39:52 <RST38h> lardman: frankly, yes
Jun 28 12:40:08 <RST38h> Jaffa,lardman: the solution to the cancer problem is relatively well known
Jun 28 12:40:14 <RST38h> Not a perfect solution, but....
Jun 28 12:40:50 <RST38h> You let people post and comment based on merit
Jun 28 12:41:21 <RST38h> Start by having invites, where a user has to be invited to the forum by the existing user
Jun 28 12:41:36 <RST38h> This alone will cut down on the biomass
Jun 28 12:42:19 <lardman> having rules for where people can post depending on their post count, and having people moderate and remove those who post rubbish might also work
Jun 28 12:42:23 <RST38h> If this is not enough, limit new users to comments only (no new threads) with a certain limit of comments per day/week.
Jun 28 12:42:32 <lardman> yep
Jun 28 12:42:36 <RST38h> lardman: Moderation usually just causes turmoil
Jun 28 12:43:04 <RST38h> lardman: And a local repeats of the Lords of the Flies
Jun 28 12:43:12 <RST38h> s/a//
Jun 28 12:43:12 <infobot> RST38h meant: lrdman: And a local repeats of the Lords of the Flies
Jun 28 12:43:45 <lardman> depends what the mods are out to achieve
Jun 28 12:43:59 <lardman> though perhaps it will always happen no matter what
Jun 28 12:44:04 <RST38h> lardman: Oh, all moderation ends up in the same way
Jun 28 12:44:14 <RST38h> lardman: It is a social thing, and not a pretty one
Jun 28 12:44:35 <RST38h> So, it is better to *NOT* moderate, or stick to very technical barebones moderation
Jun 28 12:45:26 <RST38h> Besides I can give you a plenty of forum cancer examples that do not violate any posting rules, such as 100 lemmings complaining that "CSSU bricked their device"
Jun 28 12:46:10 <lcuk> RST38h, do you happen to visit a forum for your suffering?
Jun 28 12:46:15 <lcuk> is there a collective of you
Jun 28 12:47:38 <lardman> lcuk: he's channeling our collective pain
Jun 28 12:47:50 <RST38h> lcuk: Nah, we are all nice and comfortable inside our skull. You? =)
Jun 28 12:48:59 <lcuk> RST38h, i am a little sleep deprived but otherwise sane
Jun 28 12:49:29 <RST38h> lcuk: Ah, denial is how it always starts ;)
Jun 28 12:49:35 <lcuk> lardman, tracy managed the birth on 2 paracetamol
Jun 28 12:49:44 <lcuk> she was saving the strong drugs until she needs it
Jun 28 12:49:51 <lcuk> nahhh RST38h I have a note from my doctor
Jun 28 12:49:52 <lardman> lcuk: I saw you mentioned that somewhere
Jun 28 12:50:00 <lardman> good going
Jun 28 12:50:08 <RST38h> lcuk: falsified, no doubt.
Jun 28 12:50:12 <lardman> I think the less I say to Holly about pain the better
Jun 28 12:50:14 <lcuk> lo lrst
Jun 28 12:50:28 <lcuk> lardman, holly knows.
Jun 28 12:50:40 <lardman> yeah, but I feel a bit harsh mentioning it
Jun 28 12:51:02 <RST38h> Meanwhile: Resident Evil: Mercenaries 3D for the Nintendo 3DS will be an experience that can be completed once per customer. Using a single, unwipable save slot Capcom ensures that a second hand customer gets a second rate experience.
Jun 28 12:51:16 <lcuk> lardman, make her feel better, tell her about the time you once endured a papercut or something!
Jun 28 12:51:36 <lcuk> RST38h, was just reading that, what if same person wants to try game again
Jun 28 12:51:42 <lardman> lcuk: yeah I did graze my knuckle yesterday fiddling with a door, very painful ;)
Jun 28 12:51:47 <lcuk> heh
Jun 28 12:52:17 <lcuk> to make tracy feel better she has been playing with n8 today
Jun 28 12:52:46 <alterego> Heh
Jun 28 12:52:48 <lardman> bored of the new baby already? ;)
Jun 28 12:52:55 <RST38h> lcuk: I do not think Capcom cares.
Jun 28 12:55:08 <RST38h> Actually, there is an even funnier piece of the news today: http://adage.com/article/news/consumer-divide-decide-marketing-s-winners-losers/228414/
Jun 28 12:56:31 <lcuk> lardman, photos of the baby
Jun 28 12:56:49 <lcuk> and not really too much that can be done whilst he is feeding
Jun 28 12:56:58 <lardman> true
Jun 28 12:58:02 <RST38h> lcuk: Wait until she discovers the video option =)
Jun 28 12:58:44 <lcuk> RST38h, hdmi video out is quite an impressive feature
Jun 28 12:59:33 <RST38h> lcuk: I have no hdmi in, so can't test
Jun 28 13:00:24 <lcuk> RST38h, direct neural input is rumoured on the next generation
Jun 28 13:00:38 <alterego> Heh
Jun 28 13:01:01 <lardman> is using timers expensive from a pm point of view?
Jun 28 13:01:14 <lardman> I'm guessing this page means sleeping or using a timer within a polling loop
Jun 28 13:01:15 <lardman> http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Best_practices_for_application_development/Optimising_power_management
Jun 28 13:02:31 * lardman heads to a meeting
Jun 28 13:04:45 <RST38h> lcuk: won't be the next generation
Jun 28 13:05:06 <RST38h> lcuk: and the wp8 will connect directly to your buttocks, I am sure
Jun 28 13:05:12 <lcuk> lol
Jun 28 13:05:24 <RST38h> lardman: timers=expensive
Jun 28 13:05:46 <lcuk> RST38h, ms times perhaps
Jun 28 13:05:55 <RST38h> lardman: So, do not tick every second, tick every minute and screw users who complain that "the clock is 30 seconds off on the average"
Jun 28 13:06:03 <lcuk> but wakeup once every few seconds timers not so bad
Jun 28 13:06:18 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: hi
Jun 28 13:06:20 <RST38h> lcuk: FBreader did that, drained the battery fast
Jun 28 13:06:28 <lcuk> RST38h, did what?
Jun 28 13:06:32 <RST38h> lcuk: Now ticks every 30 or 60 seconds, drain gone
Jun 28 13:06:39 <achipa> connected directly to buttocks
Jun 28 13:06:42 <RST38h> lcuk: ticked every second
Jun 28 13:06:43 <lcuk> different issue surely?
Jun 28 13:06:49 <lcuk> depends what it did every second
Jun 28 13:06:51 <javispedro> hi
Jun 28 13:06:55 <RST38h> lcuk: oh, no it was a timers issue
Jun 28 13:07:00 <RST38h> lcukL simply counted time
Jun 28 13:07:18 <RST38h> lcuk: XChat had similar issues but much much worse
Jun 28 13:08:00 <lcuk> where is the code commit you mean?
Jun 28 13:08:22 <RST38h> ?
Jun 28 13:08:55 <lcuk> RST38h, i am wondering just what happened in the timer
Jun 28 13:09:53 <DocScrutinizer> one wake per second isn't hard, as long as the executed code alows immediate return to idle
Jun 28 13:10:35 <DocScrutinizer> a process that wakes up every second to do a ping is another class of rape
Jun 28 13:10:42 <javispedro> timers is today's topic? 
Jun 28 13:10:53 <RST38h> That was roughly what XChat was doing
Jun 28 13:10:55 <DocScrutinizer> just surfaced lately
Jun 28 13:11:12 <RST38h> FBReader was way less agressive, but still managed to drain the battery
Jun 28 13:11:18 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: exactly, that'S why I chosen this example
Jun 28 13:11:32 <RST38h> javispedro: lardman asked if timers were bad for power
Jun 28 13:11:54 <DocScrutinizer> simple answer: no, but the code they start may be
Jun 28 13:11:57 <javispedro> it depends on wheter the screen is on or off I'd say =)
Jun 28 13:12:13 <DocScrutinizer> unrelated
Jun 28 13:12:22 <RST38h> even with the screen off, lots of timers is still a bad idea
Jun 28 13:12:35 <javispedro> I mean it because screen on = probably timers are not going to cause a noticeable battery life drop
Jun 28 13:12:38 <flux> I guess he means if the screen is on, a few timers here and there don't matter
Jun 28 13:12:40 <DocScrutinizer> there's e.g. bme that does like 20 timer wakes per second iirc
Jun 28 13:12:41 <javispedro> off = probably yes.
Jun 28 13:12:47 <RST38h> javispedro: first HP tablets have hit the stores, I heard
Jun 28 13:13:06 <flux> in any case, your clock doesn't need to be off by 30 seconds, you can calculate a proper sleep so that you'll land at the first second of the next minute
Jun 28 13:13:18 <RST38h> true
Jun 28 13:13:26 <javispedro> RST38h: yes, also, webos-internals guys got a few.
Jun 28 13:13:56 <javispedro> less than the 250 n9devkits from Nokia =)
Jun 28 13:14:07 <RST38h> "Fukushima radiation fears: children near nuclear plant to be given monitors" <== they still got children near that plant???
Jun 28 13:14:10 <DocScrutinizer> flux: duh, isn't that how clocks are implemented always?
Jun 28 13:14:39 <flux> docscrutinizer, it was related to the comment about the users complaining about the offset ;)
Jun 28 13:14:45 <RST38h> javispedro: well, none of those 250 got sent out yet, I guess, so the webos guys still got more =)
Jun 28 13:15:03 <javispedro> RST38h: also, hp is offering ~250$ Pre2 for devs
Jun 28 13:15:18 <DocScrutinizer> flux: a clock that's off by a max of 59s is clearly a flawed design
Jun 28 13:15:22 <javispedro> N9-like hardware except screen and camera
Jun 28 13:15:30 <javispedro> RST38h: quite tempting.
Jun 28 13:15:31 <achipa> javispedro: that's just the meego.com cache, there is more
Jun 28 13:15:35 <achipa> (FN, etc)
Jun 28 13:15:50 <RST38h> javispedro: how is the sdk though?
Jun 28 13:16:27 <flux> docscrutinizer, but it will still be wrong, if the user adjusts the clock!
Jun 28 13:16:29 <RST38h> achipa: no clear way to get one via FN at the moment. In fact, FN website got seriously screwed and now looks like some deserted version of MSDN =(
Jun 28 13:16:35 <javispedro> RST38h: I'm heavily biased towards their HTML5 stuff vs Qml,Xaml (mostly because I've use XUL)
Jun 28 13:16:36 <DocScrutinizer> flux: you always do a calculation so your timer fires on next hh:mm:00
Jun 28 13:16:53 <javispedro> RST38h: apart from the webby stuff, there's only SDL still.
Jun 28 13:17:04 <RST38h> javispedro: Don't tell you *prefer* HTML!
Jun 28 13:17:06 <DocScrutinizer> you do that calculation each time you wind up timer
Jun 28 13:17:21 <flux> docscrutinizer, typically applications don't know about system clock changing
Jun 28 13:17:22 <achipa> javispedro: and *memory*. and magnetomter. and NFC if you care. and battery. 
Jun 28 13:17:40 <DocScrutinizer> they'll learn about it on next calculation
Jun 28 13:18:10 <flux> docscrutinizer, but that's too late. misinformatino was provided for possibly 59 seconds!
Jun 28 13:18:35 <DocScrutinizer> so if you advance sysclock by 30s, your clock app will expire timer on next hh:mm:00 old time, then shedule a new timer for now+30s
Jun 28 13:18:37 <javispedro> achipa: ok, ok.
Jun 28 13:18:55 <DocScrutinizer> flux: indeed :-P
Jun 28 13:18:56 <flux> as it annoys me to say it, N9 looks like a much more usable device than the devkit. I guess it's time to learn to use the touch keyboard.
Jun 28 13:19:14 <javispedro> RST38h: I am yet to really try any of them. But HTML I mostly know.
Jun 28 13:19:16 <flux> well, usable perhaps is not the right word to use, keyboard is much more usable :-)
Jun 28 13:19:44 <flux> there is always hope that someone builds an extra battery+keyboard-cradle for n9 :)
Jun 28 13:19:44 <achipa> RST38h: well, the way is pretty clear, write an endearing letter, etc
Jun 28 13:20:02 <RST38h> Meanwhile: Psychologists in the US report that people who have suffered a serious blow to the head and who have "a sense of connection to a higher power" tend to report feelings of much greater life satisfaction
Jun 28 13:20:16 <javispedro> Hey, I'm going to write a _menacing_ letter if I don't get any word about my launchpad application soon.
Jun 28 13:20:21 <DocScrutinizer> achipa: memory???
Jun 28 13:20:25 <RST38h> achipa: Letter to WHOM?
Jun 28 13:20:39 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: pre2 has 512MiB, n9 has 1 GiB
Jun 28 13:20:54 <RST38h> achipa: As I said, poor FN wasn't very systematic inthe best of times, and it is seriously screwed now.
Jun 28 13:21:03 <DocScrutinizer> aah sorry, missed the comparison base
Jun 28 13:21:18 <DocScrutinizer> thought it's about n950 vs n9
Jun 28 13:21:23 <achipa> RST38h: did you guys read https://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/MeeGo/ ? you have aparagraph, address, deadline, etc
Jun 28 13:21:58 <RST38h> achipa; Ah, I see now! Thanks!
Jun 28 13:22:27 <RST38h> achipa: Will wait and see what the community program request ends up with though. Do not need two devices.
Jun 28 13:24:36 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: duh? deadline in 3 days?
Jun 28 13:24:49 <javispedro> nono
Jun 28 13:24:52 <achipa> DocScrutinizer: read again
Jun 28 13:24:53 <javispedro> one month
Jun 28 13:25:04 <DocScrutinizer> just did :-P
Jun 28 13:25:06 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Jun 28 13:25:33 <achipa> javispedro: launchpad. applications. take. time. sorry. about. that.
Jun 28 13:26:12 <javispedro> achipa: it's been half a year!
Jun 28 13:26:17 <MohammadAG> community deadline is tomorrow
Jun 28 13:26:25 <javispedro> and DocScrutinizer's was approved in an overnight =)
Jun 28 13:26:30 <achipa> flux: more usable ? in what terms ? they are equally usable, depending on your addiction to qwerty and such
Jun 28 13:26:32 <DocScrutinizer> anyway I'm clearly repelled by devel.nokia.com and the friggin launchpad with its registration process and just showing "devices available to you <nul>" when you're not a company lauchpad member
Jun 28 13:26:48 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: yes, but it's useless
Jun 28 13:27:09 <DocScrutinizer> as mine is an individual account, not a corporate account
Jun 28 13:27:11 <achipa> javispedro: yeah, I know. I wish I could poke people, but it really is a manual/broken process
Jun 28 13:27:34 <flux> achipa, I was under the impression N9 had more memory?
Jun 28 13:27:41 <achipa> DocScrutinizer: this is completely unrelated. The devkit has nothing to do with the DDP this time around
Jun 28 13:27:50 <achipa> flux: than the PALM PRE
Jun 28 13:27:57 <DocScrutinizer> and you need to bitch at forum about it so sb hits your face with the exact wording of one sentence somewhere
Jun 28 13:28:04 <flux> achipa, in other words N9devkit has 1GB as well?
Jun 28 13:28:40 <achipa> flux: the only major difference is qwerty, NFC and the colors
Jun 28 13:28:43 <DocScrutinizer> achipa: another good way to annoy visitors and make them jump hoops for days to find it's been useless
Jun 28 13:29:00 <achipa> the rest are nuances... '10% more sensitive magnetometer' and such sillyness
Jun 28 13:29:06 <flux> achipa, in that case I shall amend my statement: the devkit would be nicer :)
Jun 28 13:29:20 <DocScrutinizer> nuance OLED
Jun 28 13:29:29 <flux> actually there was the battery thing as well?
Jun 28 13:29:32 <achipa> yes, color nuances :)
Jun 28 13:29:42 <achipa> and 100mAh nuance
Jun 28 13:30:37 <achipa> okay, I'll give you that, if you're hardcore, you could say the devkit battery is replaceable
Jun 28 13:31:04 <javispedro> and the n9's is not by the same hardcore definition? =)
Jun 28 13:31:24 <DocScrutinizer> OT: when your browser freezes on selecting "print" from menu, how'd you go recover the data you entered into that friggin webform?
Jun 28 13:31:34 <achipa> javispedro: No. I can actually replace batteries with fingers only in about 15 sec. For the N9 I need tools and abour 3 min
Jun 28 13:32:01 <frals> achipa: you need a screwdriver for n950 as well ;)
Jun 28 13:32:29 <achipa> frals: I consider losing the screws as part of the unboxing :)
Jun 28 13:32:30 <DocScrutinizer> isn't there a file somewhare that caches form data or sth like that?
Jun 28 13:32:31 <frals> unless you have some mutant fingers that can unscrew the screws
Jun 28 13:32:37 <frals> achipa: haha, ok
Jun 28 13:32:54 <javispedro> achipa: hah
Jun 28 13:33:00 <frals> not that ive ever got to see a box for it, thou :p
Jun 28 13:33:17 <achipa> pretty much like the N900s
Jun 28 13:33:32 <achipa> bit shorter on accessories, tho
Jun 28 13:33:33 <DocScrutinizer> achipa: so it's been you who told that "swapping battery by night" story
Jun 28 13:33:36 <achipa> but who cares about thos
Jun 28 13:34:20 <achipa> DocScrutinizer: huh ? Yes, I can swap batteries with closed eyes, just like true marines can assemble their guns... :)
Jun 28 13:34:35 <DocScrutinizer> yes, it's been you :-)
Jun 28 13:34:45 <DocScrutinizer> exactly this wording :-D
Jun 28 13:35:05 <DocScrutinizer> we've been wondering if you were talking bout n950 or n9
Jun 28 13:35:52 <DocScrutinizer> as N9 seems to be a real nuissance to take apart
Jun 28 13:35:55 <achipa> N950. N9 is a whole different beast.
Jun 28 13:36:10 <achipa> Yeah, you really don't want to disassemble those
Jun 28 13:36:20 <DocScrutinizer> thought as much
Jun 28 13:37:22 <DocScrutinizer> so N9's battery is actually not user replacable by any metrics
Jun 28 13:37:30 <achipa> correct
Jun 28 13:37:50 <achipa> I would say it's not even service-point replaceable unless they know what they are doing
Jun 28 13:37:58 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Jun 28 13:38:28 <achipa> I.e. you do have to have a manual to know where to prod/poke, it's not really 'oooh, here's a screw, lets see if it opens up I loosen it' :)
Jun 28 13:38:39 <DocScrutinizer> we had a nice internal argument and shouting and names calling about a similar design, back at OM
Jun 28 13:39:04 <lcuk> achipa, if the service point do not know how to service the phones there is somethign wrong
Jun 28 13:39:18 <javispedro> they just trashem and replace them with n8s
Jun 28 13:39:21 <DocScrutinizer> ended with "cell replaceable with standart tooling, incl some soldering *maybe*"
Jun 28 13:39:32 <DocScrutinizer> standard* OMG
Jun 28 13:41:18 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: reflash, check, pack, send to nokia service center
Jun 28 13:41:44 <DocScrutinizer> some fail even at the reflash part
Jun 28 13:41:47 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, was responding to achipa who said service point folks wont know
Jun 28 13:41:57 <DocScrutinizer> me too
Jun 28 13:42:26 <DocScrutinizer> nokia service point doesn't really mean much at least here
Jun 28 13:42:38 <DocScrutinizer> YMMV depending on country
Jun 28 13:43:13 <DocScrutinizer> there's one service center in Germany, and they for sure know how to do such things
Jun 28 13:43:29 <DocScrutinizer> service points usually can help you unboxing and that's been it
Jun 28 13:44:25 <DocScrutinizer> the better half of service point employees maybe come *here* to ask for advice
Jun 28 13:47:02 <DocScrutinizer> actually, though my issue was a "simple" flex cable swap, and though the service point had a veritable lab with ESD and all, they sent the device in to nokia service center, as Nokia wouldn't *let them* repair it
Jun 28 13:48:22 <DocScrutinizer> and when device came back with a damaged power button, they told me they *could* fix that but I'd had to pay, as Nokia broke it so they need to send it in _again_ to get it fixed for free. Nokia wouldn't pay them to fix it locally
Jun 28 13:49:26 <bindi> do you think running ideal settings on the n900 (overclock 250-850) is a good idea?
Jun 28 13:49:29 <bindi> will it die? D:
Jun 28 13:49:41 <DocScrutinizer> ~omap-oc
Jun 28 13:49:42 <infobot> hmm... omap-oc is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05  read that!, or and this http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-03-11.log.html#t2011-03-11T03:04:11
Jun 28 13:49:54 <DocScrutinizer> ~overclocking
Jun 28 13:49:55 <infobot> "OK, listen up.  This is your CPU."  apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan.  "This is your CPU on overclocking.  Any questions?"
Jun 28 13:50:12 <bindi> but but lower voltage! 
Jun 28 13:50:18 <DocScrutinizer> ~omap-oc
Jun 28 13:50:19 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, omap-oc is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05  read that!, or and this http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-03-11.log.html#t2011-03-11T03:04:11
Jun 28 13:50:24 <bindi> reading 
Jun 28 13:50:49 <DocScrutinizer> lower voltage is complete placebo
Jun 28 13:50:56 <DocScrutinizer> well, mostly
Jun 28 13:51:30 <bindi> well i'll go with 250-600 ULV then
Jun 28 13:51:51 <MohammadAG> why not use stock anyways?
Jun 28 13:52:02 <bindi> saves some battery :>
Jun 28 13:52:11 <DocScrutinizer> how much? :-P
Jun 28 13:52:28 <bindi> i dont know 
Jun 28 13:52:32 <bindi> but i'm p sure it does 
Jun 28 13:52:37 <DocScrutinizer> so I tell you it doesn't
Jun 28 13:52:38 <bindi> dont see a reason why not to run with less volts
Jun 28 13:53:04 <DocScrutinizer> I don't see a reason why not run it under the shower
Jun 28 13:54:14 <bindi> so you're telling me that 0.912V @ 250 MHz will not consume less power than 1.075V 
Jun 28 13:58:46 <DocScrutinizer> let me tell you a seemingly unrelated story: there are step up converters to power your 220V stuff from 12V car battery. The design of those makes them rather immune to input voltage variations, as they transform anyway so you'd thing 10V, 12V, 14V what's the difference. But some of thuse may burn out on too *low* input voltage as they need to draw more _current_ on lower input _voltage_, to get same amount of energy for the output
Jun 28 13:59:21 <DocScrutinizer> think*
Jun 28 14:00:45 <RST38h> Doc: lovely
Jun 28 14:03:26 <MohammadAG> frals, what was in that tweet of yours? :P
Jun 28 14:03:45 <MohammadAG> or is, Sorry, this item is not available for your country.
Jun 28 14:08:01 <edheldil> DocScrutinizer:  so it means that they start ok on 12V and as the battery gets depleted and/or you attempt to start the engine, they catch fire? Niiiiice :-D
Jun 28 14:08:23 <bindi> DocScrutinizer: you're saying lowering voltages increases ampere..?
Jun 28 14:08:28 <DocScrutinizer> actually usually it's just the fuse that blows
Jun 28 14:09:01 <frals> Elop is a mischievous boy. He is on a platform and want let it burn! Please help (not him!) and shoot the water on the fire. You will only win, if you can drop Elpo from the platform. Are you a hero? 
Jun 28 14:09:05 <frals> MohammadAG: ^
Jun 28 14:09:32 <DocScrutinizer> bindi: no, I'm saying things are way more complex with real electronics than what you learned at school with "battery-switch-lamp->now this is electricity, pupils"
Jun 28 14:10:05 <bindi> I still think lowering the voltage will increase battery life
Jun 28 14:10:20 <bindi> not greatly, but an increase is an increase
Jun 28 14:10:32 <DocScrutinizer> probably it will, unless e.g your gfx core reboots constantly due to "segfaults"
Jun 28 14:10:36 <RST38h> frals: AND ALL OUR BASE ARE BELONG TO HIM
Jun 28 14:11:07 <RST38h> bindi: You can think whatever you wouldlike to think
Jun 28 14:11:34 <RST38h> bindi: Does not necessarily make things true though
Jun 28 14:12:30 <lcuk> frals, did you write this?
Jun 28 14:13:25 <frals> lcuk: no, valerio linked it to me ;)
Jun 28 14:13:28 <lcuk> lol
Jun 28 14:13:34 <lcuk> is it available for Windows Phone?
Jun 28 14:14:29 <MohammadAG> frals, LOL
Jun 28 14:14:33 <DocScrutinizer> bindi: unless *proper* numbers from *proper* long term testbeds, I'm tending to trust into Nokia's/TI's capabilities to find out about optimum voltage settings, based on weeks of test runs on arrays of several hundred devices
Jun 28 14:16:05 <DocScrutinizer> in the end it's them who know their hw best, not mr joe randomhacker out there who thought "duh, there's a sysfs node to tamper with core voltages, now let's see what I can get away with"
Jun 28 14:17:00 <DocScrutinizer> they know info you never get a hold on
Jun 28 14:17:00 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: what gets me is, how people don't expect Nokia to want to make it go as fast as they possibly can.
Jun 28 14:17:11 <alterego> Mobile devices are so highly tuned already ..
Jun 28 14:17:26 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: indeed
Jun 28 14:17:46 <alterego> The fact that OCing doesn't even work the same on everyones devices, some can't get about 800Mhz some can get up to 1.4Ghz
Jun 28 14:18:16 <alterego> Shows how random the outcomes can be, and why things are done the way they are ..
Jun 28 14:18:40 <DocScrutinizer> don't tell me, I'm EE and I know my shit
Jun 28 14:18:50 <alterego> TI, ARM, Nokia, they're not Intel, they don't churn out the same chips and lock the frequencies to cater for different budgets :D
Jun 28 14:18:56 <lcuk> i hope you know more about circuits DocScrutinizer 
Jun 28 14:19:01 <alterego> They want things to be the fastest and most reliable the can :D
Jun 28 14:19:04 <crashanddie> DocScrutinizer, don't get cocky now :P
Jun 28 14:19:18 <alterego> EE is that a CISCO certification?
Jun 28 14:19:20 * alterego chuckles
Jun 28 14:19:44 <alterego> Talking of EEs, where is abill_uk? I thought he only had a 7 day ban
Jun 28 14:19:55 <DocScrutinizer> *cough*
Jun 28 14:19:56 <alterego> I was sure he'd have something to say about the N9 or N950 ..
Jun 28 14:20:23 <edheldil> DocScrutinizer:  otoh the difference in achieved OC might mean that your specific device might really support higher freq, *if you are lucky*
Jun 28 14:21:06 <DocScrutinizer> also may mean your device is one of the lucky 7% that burn out even on 500MHz after 5000h
Jun 28 14:21:26 <alterego> edheldil: it's like getting a group of people to jump out of an aeroplane and you're the only one with a working parachute.
Jun 28 14:21:56 <jaska> 7% burn out at normal clock after 5000h? ow
Jun 28 14:22:00 <edheldil> hehe. I do not OC :)
Jun 28 14:22:17 <DocScrutinizer> jaska: TI specs
Jun 28 14:22:50 <jaska> so effectively theyre selling garbage binned ones 
Jun 28 14:23:04 <flux> I think it is quite rare to run your N900 for 5000h at 500MHz?
Jun 28 14:23:14 <DocScrutinizer> nope, that's normal expected lifetime for the CPU
Jun 28 14:23:15 <flux> how many recharges would that even take..
Jun 28 14:23:24 <crashanddie> yes, considering the CPU doesn't run at 500Mhz constantly
Jun 28 14:24:23 <jaska> what clock do you have to run them at to get the normal works-until-cosmic-event lifetime?
Jun 28 14:24:33 <DocScrutinizer> crashanddie: unless yu're such OC fanboy that tries to cure the slowdown caused by running mp3enc 
Jun 28 14:24:35 <crashanddie> 0
Jun 28 14:25:10 <flux> I think a reasonable person would overclock for the hopes of the device running at the boosted MHz only for split-seconds at a time.
Jun 28 14:25:11 <DocScrutinizer> jaska: all under 500 is speced to 100.000h
Jun 28 14:25:13 <achipa> jaska: no such thing, even minimum clock has a non-zero defect rate (except it's in the 0.0000x% range)
Jun 28 14:25:20 <DocScrutinizer> iirc
Jun 28 14:26:13 <jaska> just sounds like an awfully high failure rate to me
Jun 28 14:26:19 <crashanddie> hardly
Jun 28 14:26:45 <DocScrutinizer> ~omap-oc
Jun 28 14:26:46 <infobot> well, omap-oc is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05  read that!, or and this http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-03-11.log.html#t2011-03-11T03:04:11
Jun 28 14:26:59 <jaska> im not an overclocker.
Jun 28 14:27:39 <flux> 5000 hours is like running the device full blast 24/7 for 208 days. nobody who uses the device as a personal communication device does that.
Jun 28 14:27:40 <DocScrutinizer> 100K total PowerOnHours when operating across all OPPs and keeping the time spent at OPP5 (overdrive = 600MHz) to less than 23K POH.  --- for commercial grade device (up to 95°C)
Jun 28 14:28:02 <flux> well, unless they carry a car battery with them.
Jun 28 14:28:18 <user0-> will the n900 run meego or maemo?
Jun 28 14:28:49 <DocScrutinizer> flux: that's why 600MHz is safe
Jun 28 14:28:59 <user0-> the wiki says it will run maemo 
Jun 28 14:29:10 <crashanddie> actually, that would be 8 hours of 500Mhz use every day for a year, 8 months and 12 days...
Jun 28 14:29:12 <user0-> random sites only say meego
Jun 28 14:29:23 <crashanddie> user0-, maemo
Jun 28 14:29:39 <flux> crashanddie, and how many recharges a day?
Jun 28 14:29:41 <user0-> :0
Jun 28 14:29:45 <DocScrutinizer> a maemo called meego
Jun 28 14:29:47 <crashanddie> flux, a lot.
Jun 28 14:29:58 <user0-> i just paid for my n900 a few days ago
Jun 28 14:30:14 <crashanddie> how much did you pay for it?
Jun 28 14:30:20 <flux> actually, does someone have the number? how long will n900 last with its default configuration at 100% cpu?
Jun 28 14:30:34 <user0-> 320$
Jun 28 14:30:38 <flux> isn't there a meego for N900 as well?
Jun 28 14:30:39 <crashanddie> ouch
Jun 28 14:30:46 <DocScrutinizer> flux: see above, 100.000h
Jun 28 14:31:02 <flux> docscrutinizer, I meant how far the battery lasts
Jun 28 14:31:09 <DocScrutinizer> meh
Jun 28 14:31:15 <DocScrutinizer> 2h
Jun 28 14:31:37 <flux> I don't think there is any meego available that is actually usable for an end user yet..
Jun 28 14:31:47 <user0-> cashanddie : too much?
Jun 28 14:31:50 <DocScrutinizer> 4h with screen off
Jun 28 14:32:04 <flux> but I hear they just released a summer release of MeeGo for N900 (for developers)
Jun 28 14:32:15 <user0-> and will the new device run the old apps or will they have to port them first
Jun 28 14:33:00 <DocScrutinizer> flux: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption
Jun 28 14:33:54 <lardman> re
Jun 28 14:34:11 <lardman> seems I missed the response to the timer question :)
Jun 28 14:34:18 <DocScrutinizer> flux: >>md5sum /dev/zero 250 mA T
Jun 28 14:34:19 <lardman> it was a rhetorical question though
Jun 28 14:34:52 <lardman> do we know the system heartbeat frequency?
Jun 28 14:34:57 <DocScrutinizer> lardman: [2011-06-28 15:09:00] <DocScrutinizer> simple answer: no, but the code they start may be
Jun 28 14:35:02 <cloudyLights> DocScrutinizer: I am seeking to run a script like jowel did
Jun 28 14:35:10 <lardman> docscrutinizer: That was my conclusion too
Jun 28 14:35:15 <cloudyLights> to log my bus travel using the celular info
Jun 28 14:35:32 <DocScrutinizer> jowel?
Jun 28 14:35:51 <lardman> cloudyLights: we could do with an extension to liblocation to allow offline conversion of cell id to lat/lon if you're game?
Jun 28 14:36:09 <DocScrutinizer> jonwil I guess you meant
Jun 28 14:36:39 <cloudyLights> this what Iam seeking
Jun 28 14:36:46 <cloudyLights> but I am at work
Jun 28 14:36:57 <DocScrutinizer> cloudyLights: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/bin/smscb.py
Jun 28 14:37:02 <cloudyLights> in 1hr I will try to understand more
Jun 28 14:37:14 <cloudyLights> great
Jun 28 14:37:17 <DocScrutinizer> cloudyLights: this one??
Jun 28 14:37:33 <cloudyLights> I just want to run a log on my way back home
Jun 28 14:37:45 <cloudyLights> then sit and figure out how to use the numbers
Jun 28 14:37:58 <DocScrutinizer> look into netmon source, how to get the CID
Jun 28 14:38:08 <cloudyLights> I need to log the data
Jun 28 14:38:29 <cloudyLights> I am not saying I CANT do it
Jun 28 14:38:39 <cloudyLights> but maybe it allready exist
Jun 28 14:38:52 <DocScrutinizer> visit openbmap, they might have scripts to do exactly what you want, for N900
Jun 28 14:39:01 <cloudyLights> a program to log 15 min drive in a bus 
Jun 28 14:39:20 <lardman> DocScrutinizer: yeah, but it would be nice to add it to liblocation as another location option
Jun 28 14:39:21 <DocScrutinizer> ~seen onen_openbmap
Jun 28 14:39:35 <cloudyLights> lardman: I hear you mate
Jun 28 14:39:35 <infobot> i haven't seen 'onen_openbmap', DocScrutinizer
Jun 28 14:40:00 <DocScrutinizer> ~seen onen_bmap
Jun 28 14:40:01 <infobot> i haven't seen 'onen_bmap', DocScrutinizer
Jun 28 14:40:06 <jonwil> liblocation is closed source
Jun 28 14:40:25 <lardman> jonwil: I hear you're an expert with binary patching though ;)
Jun 28 14:40:31 <jonwil> not really
Jun 28 14:40:45 <lardman> don't worry, I know it's closed source
Jun 28 14:41:27 <lardman> I suppose an nice transparent alternative would be a proxy server that intercepts the lookup requests and uses the openbmap data to return the known lat/lon without needing a net connection
Jun 28 14:43:54 <DocScrutinizer> http://openbmap.org/
Jun 28 14:49:15 <DocScrutinizer> http://openbmap.org/api/getGPSfromGSM.html  I argued with onen a lot about the assumed polygon or even radius. Rela life it's all but a circle or even simple area defined by a toplologic order 1 ploygon
Jun 28 14:49:50 <DocScrutinizer> real life it's usually  a random checkered area where you can get signal from a BTS
Jun 28 14:50:42 <DocScrutinizer> more often than not the servicing cell (aka the tower with best signal) is *not* the one with shortest distance to your location
Jun 28 14:51:49 <cloudyLights> hmmm
Jun 28 14:52:10 <cloudyLights> I am just glad you are here to advice me about this idea
Jun 28 14:52:28 <cloudyLights> I mean if I had to learn it all by myself , it would take a lot of time
Jun 28 14:52:39 <cloudyLights> but the idea of using cellular is good
Jun 28 14:52:40 <DocScrutinizer> real world out there isn't an ideal landscape with no obstacles and an evenly spaced pattern of BTS
Jun 28 14:54:50 <DocScrutinizer> in towns you frequently have so called umbrella cells that are mounted on really high locatons and serve for a fill in in a radius of several km. So you might have such an umbrella as your servicing cell despite the fact 30 BTS are way closer to you but hidden by obstacles
Jun 28 14:55:09 <edheldil> but would you be able to triangulat depending on signal strength from several towers without the need for some operator signal propagation maps?
Jun 28 14:55:16 <SpeedEvil> achipa: how did you know how to open teh n9 - did you see a manual? 
Jun 28 14:55:45 <DocScrutinizer> edheldil: nope, as signal is a random value
Jun 28 14:55:53 <achipa> SpeedEvil: either that or I have dropped one by accident and have seen it fly apart :)
Jun 28 14:56:12 <X-Fade> SpeedEvil: We all know how to do that. You are the only one not having one :)
Jun 28 14:56:36 <edheldil> DocScrutinizer:  really? No use in reading sigmnal strength?
Jun 28 14:56:38 <DocScrutinizer> edheldil: see my mail http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-June/002987.html
Jun 28 14:57:07 <DocScrutinizer> you see real life variations in signal strength by moving device 50cm or 1m
Jun 28 14:57:23 <jonwil> About to post a post to the mailing list describing the interfaces exposed by hald-addon-bme
Jun 28 14:57:39 <jonwil> so someone can use it to create hald-addon-bme clone that talks to low level stuff
Jun 28 14:58:12 * ShadowJK sees 50kbytes/s go to 200kbytes/s by moving device 1cm
Jun 28 14:58:12 <SpeedEvil> alterego: Actually - there are speed grades of the processor in the n900 up to 720MHz - they might well do binning.
Jun 28 14:58:23 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: exactly
Jun 28 14:58:42 * ShadowJK has marked the "proper" place for 200kbyte/s with masking tape on his table
Jun 28 14:58:49 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jun 28 14:58:55 <DocScrutinizer> RF signal is all but a mere function of distance
Jun 28 14:59:08 <SpeedEvil> edheldil: 'no use' - is overstating it.
Jun 28 14:59:28 <ShadowJK> then there's a relatively large .5m diameter sphere in midair that gives 500, but only if I am holding it there. Putting it on a tripod in same spot doesn't work
Jun 28 14:59:35 <DocScrutinizer> well, my mail has all the bits in rather compressed concentrated form
Jun 28 14:59:57 <SpeedEvil> edheldil: But it's at best a ceiling, and you would need to use it along with lots of clever code that tried to guess things about the cell-tower antenna
Jun 28 15:00:03 <SpeedEvil> And yes, that neglects reflections.
Jun 28 15:00:38 <DocScrutinizer> and obstacles at large
Jun 28 15:00:40 <achipa> ShadowJK: the layout of the room, items in and around it might create a 'natural' focal point
Jun 28 15:01:01 <ShadowJK> gps receiver seems good at detecting ceilings, if you do a 24 hour run
Jun 28 15:01:30 <SpeedEvil> As a simple example - if there is a flat plate behind the phone away from the transmitter, pointed at it, then there will be 2*maximum/zero signal in 5cm spacings.
Jun 28 15:02:20 <DocScrutinizer> basically the ONLY thing you can say for sure from CID is: you are <35km distance from that particular BTS, and signal strength doesn't matter really
Jun 28 15:02:59 <RST38h> Doc: Aren't cells smaller in the city?
Jun 28 15:03:05 <RST38h> Doc: And for 3G?
Jun 28 15:03:21 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: there's no such thing like a cell outer limit
Jun 28 15:03:41 <DocScrutinizer> except for the 35km max distance to BTS
Jun 28 15:03:46 <ShadowJK> for gsm the timing advance could give you a rough distance (not counting reflections)
Jun 28 15:04:10 <DocScrutinizer> even that can get pushed by technical means, for umbrella cells e.g in aussie outback
Jun 28 15:04:31 * ShadowJK has heard some cells refuse to talk to mobiles too far away even if signals were fine
Jun 28 15:06:05 <edheldil> DocScrutinizer:  your mail message seem to say that getting reasonable location accuracy is possible. Or have I misread it?
Jun 28 15:07:27 <lardman> I was planning on using the cell id to know when I'm near some location, and only then turn the gps on
Jun 28 15:07:29 <ShadowJK> are you refering to the one where he decodes coordinates sent by the network over cell broadcast?
Jun 28 15:07:37 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: yep, that's the mountain-summit effect that makes your phone drop connection to a seemingly perfect cell - it's >35km away
Jun 28 15:08:23 <lardman> Does anyone have any links to docs on the CPU and network "heartbeats" on the N9(50)?
Jun 28 15:08:31 <DocScrutinizer> edheldil: it is possible, but not on the assumption of any relation between signal strength and distance to BTS
Jun 28 15:09:12 <edheldil> ah, ok
Jun 28 15:09:46 <DocScrutinizer> you can get a map of fingerprints for each square meter
Jun 28 15:09:52 <edheldil> also another liblocation extension would be to do the wifi google trick, then
Jun 28 15:10:05 <DocScrutinizer> you also can do heuristics on which BTS are visible at all
Jun 28 15:10:12 <MoonTiger> has anybody else had the screen brightness status applet just disappear from the status area?
Jun 28 15:10:14 <DocScrutinizer> and you can exploit TA
Jun 28 15:10:23 <jonwil> bah, cant find bme-dbus-names.h
Jun 28 15:10:46 <jonwil> definatly exists, mce source code references it
Jun 28 15:10:52 <lardman> edheldil: yes
Jun 28 15:11:22 <edheldil> MoonTiger:  might be a stupid question, but is not it just scrolled away? The status menu is scrollable, as I have found :)
Jun 28 15:11:28 <achipa> lardman: another trick is timed gps reads - if you know a position, you know that you cannot get into a target area under X minutes, so no point in making another read before that
Jun 28 15:11:52 <MoonTiger> edheldil, no i just tried and there is no scrolling
Jun 28 15:12:14 <MoonTiger> i only have 3 rows of items showing plus the volume / battery meter
Jun 28 15:12:58 <achipa> lardman: and if you have additional info (like knowing that you're on foot, bicycle or bus), you can optimize even further
Jun 28 15:13:16 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG is going to play with a N950?
Jun 28 15:13:20 <DocScrutinizer> \o/
Jun 28 15:13:30 <DocScrutinizer> in 2 minutes ;-)
Jun 28 15:13:35 <MohammadAG> 1 minute till RDA session starts :P
Jun 28 15:14:32 <ruskie> anyone got any opinions on the tablets+keyboard dock devices that can be got now-a-days?(acer, asus, anyone else?)
Jun 28 15:15:15 <MohammadAG> session ends in 2:49 hours
Jun 28 15:15:31 <SpeedEvil> edheldil: Some cell modems can report distances to several towers in range - that lets you do postion
Jun 28 15:15:55 <MohammadAG> session started :D
Jun 28 15:15:58 <lardman> achipa: yes, good calls
Jun 28 15:16:10 <MohammadAG> nice, portrait, gotta tilt my head
Jun 28 15:16:10 <MoonTiger> ruskie, i have a asus TF with keyboard
Jun 28 15:16:26 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: really?
Jun 28 15:16:49 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: distance? how do they do that? forced assoc and TA?
Jun 28 15:17:04 <MoonTiger> so no clues as to what would make the brightness applet vanish after the CSSU update?
Jun 28 15:18:27 <ruskie> MoonTiger, good?
Jun 28 15:18:52 <jonwil> aha, now I see why someone would bother to clone the battery status widget, the open-source clone is improved/better
Jun 28 15:19:19 <jonwil> Time to post to the mailing list with information for hald-addon-bme
Jun 28 15:19:40 <MoonTiger> ruskie, it takes a lil while to get used to having a tablet but it works really well ... the keyboard is useful for more than the keyboard - it doubles the battery life ... i would recommend the asus
Jun 28 15:19:45 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG got a N950
Jun 28 15:19:48 <hiemanshu> ?
Jun 28 15:20:10 <Venemo> nope
Jun 28 15:20:13 <Venemo> he is using RDA
Jun 28 15:20:27 <user0-> whats rda?
Jun 28 15:20:44 <Venemo> remote device access
Jun 28 15:20:52 <MohammadAG> think VNC, but slower
Jun 28 15:22:13 <MohammadAG> ok, you'll love this everyone
Jun 28 15:22:14 <MohammadAG> it
Jun 28 15:22:15 <MohammadAG> has
Jun 28 15:22:18 <MohammadAG> BUSYBOX!
Jun 28 15:22:31 <user0-> :D
Jun 28 15:23:02 <wmarone_> \o/
Jun 28 15:23:06 <DocScrutinizer> sure, what else :-S
Jun 28 15:23:12 <user0-> seems more like bad news
Jun 28 15:23:26 <MohammadAG> no root access?
Jun 28 15:23:38 <user0-> some new release of maemo or what?
Jun 28 15:24:09 <DocScrutinizer> no root? HAHA
Jun 28 15:24:26 <MohammadAG> can't find a way to gain root
Jun 28 15:24:34 <MohammadAG> su root needs suid
Jun 28 15:24:53 <MohammadAG> dmesg => operation not permitted THE FUCK
Jun 28 15:24:59 <K-Wallander> lol no root? :D
Jun 28 15:25:30 <alterego> MohammadAG: it needs to be in developer mode to get root
Jun 28 15:25:45 <lardman> so now we need to look at the package list and see if there are any security bugs that could be exploited to get a root shell
Jun 28 15:25:50 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: sudo -l
Jun 28 15:25:52 * MoonTiger sighs and kisses the N950 bye bye
Jun 28 15:26:03 * MohammadAG tilts head again
Jun 28 15:26:28 <MohammadAG> couldn't they have done what they did to the SDK
Jun 28 15:26:34 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: check if device is in developer mode
Jun 28 15:26:35 <MohammadAG> I hate portrait only on a landscape only laptop
Jun 28 15:26:38 <MoonTiger> ok wow ... just uninstalled the latest twimgo and my brightness applet came back
Jun 28 15:26:42 <MohammadAG> waiting for it to respond
Jun 28 15:27:28 <MohammadAG> alterego, developer mode is enabled
Jun 28 15:27:48 <alterego> MohammadAG: apt-get install openssh-server
Jun 28 15:27:52 <alterego> and ssh to localhost
Jun 28 15:28:15 <MohammadAG> oh great idea
Jun 28 15:28:18 <MohammadAG> ssh is installed
Jun 28 15:28:20 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: uhuh, is apt-get in sudoers?
Jun 28 15:28:51 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: sudo -l
Jun 28 15:29:15 <MohammadAG> time to guess the root pass
Jun 28 15:29:15 <MohammadAG> it's not meego
Jun 28 15:29:15 <MohammadAG> nor root
Jun 28 15:29:23 <alterego> Oh, install it from the application manager then
Jun 28 15:29:23 <MohammadAG> sudo not installed DocScrutinizer 
Jun 28 15:29:24 <Jaffa> rootme was the default on Maemo
Jun 28 15:29:28 <DocScrutinizer> oooh
Jun 28 15:29:35 <MohammadAG> rootme it is
Jun 28 15:29:37 <MohammadAG> thanks Jaffa 
Jun 28 15:29:45 <Jaffa> My 770 days coming back to haunt me
Jun 28 15:29:47 <DocScrutinizer> OMFG
Jun 28 15:30:01 <DocScrutinizer> cheers on Jaffa 
Jun 28 15:30:07 <MohammadAG> klogctl: Operation not permitted
Jun 28 15:30:13 <MohammadAG> on dmesg
Jun 28 15:30:33 <DocScrutinizer> less /var/log/*
Jun 28 15:31:44 <MohammadAG> theehe, syslog
Jun 28 15:31:56 <frals> aegis-su or something like that
Jun 28 15:32:27 <DocScrutinizer> frals: \o/
Jun 28 15:32:41 <MohammadAG> lots of aegis- stuff, no -su though
Jun 28 15:32:44 <Venemo> MohammadAG, 'lspci'
Jun 28 15:32:48 <frals> aegis-exec maybe
Jun 28 15:32:59 * MohammadAG fetches pastebinit
Jun 28 15:33:10 <MohammadAG> actually
Jun 28 15:33:26 <frals> wonder what kind of device that is
Jun 28 15:33:38 <jonwil> so yeah once I post this info, someone who knows how to use hal and dbus APIs will be able to write a replacement hald-addon-bme that talks directly to the hardware
Jun 28 15:33:39 <frals> when your time is almost up do rm /usr/sbin/validator-init and reboot
Jun 28 15:33:40 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: Can you do a df -h to check the size of the MMC?
Jun 28 15:33:40 <Venemo> MohammadAG, or 'lshal'
Jun 28 15:33:41 <MohammadAG> no no no
Jun 28 15:33:47 <MohammadAG> before all that
Jun 28 15:34:04 <jonwil> whilst still remaining compatible with the closed source bits
Jun 28 15:34:15 <MohammadAG> I want the public IP
Jun 28 15:34:15 <MohammadAG> hopefully it has port 22 open
Jun 28 15:34:15 <MohammadAG> actually, what's reverse ssh again?
Jun 28 15:34:19 <MohammadAG> <frals> when your time is almost up do rm /usr/sbin/validator-init and reboot <-- lol?
Jun 28 15:34:30 <MohammadAG> frals, N950
Jun 28 15:34:47 <frals> MohammadAG: depending on some stuff im not sure if it will come back up after that :P
Jun 28 15:34:55 <ShadowJK> before all that, tar -cf - / | ssh me@computer "cat > rdarootfs.tar"
Jun 28 15:34:56 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: ssh -R2222:localhost:22 external
Jun 28 15:35:11 <Venemo> and before your session ends, 'rm -rf /' as root
Jun 28 15:35:15 <lardman> MohammadAG: devel-su perhaps?
Jun 28 15:35:35 <Venemo> :P
Jun 28 15:36:05 <hiemanshu> Venemo: naah, cat a > /boot/vmlinuz works better :P the rootfs is there but it wont boot :P
Jun 28 15:36:17 <Venemo> lol hiemanshu
Jun 28 15:36:36 <Venemo> thing is, if MohammadAG does these nasty things, they will probably disable all root access...
Jun 28 15:37:19 <frals> Venemo: a developer device without developer mode is...
Jun 28 15:37:21 <frals> well...
Jun 28 15:37:38 <frals> doesnt the symbian phones reflash the phone between rda sessions btw?
Jun 28 15:37:48 <lardman> I can't see them getting rid of it really, they've written the docs already after all ;)
Jun 28 15:37:48 <frals> MohammadAG: whats the hostname btw?
Jun 28 15:37:57 <frals> MohammadAG: also, settings -> about -> version number
Jun 28 15:38:09 <DocScrutinizer> frals: that's what I thought
Jun 28 15:38:13 <Venemo> I meant, they disable root access on RDA
Jun 28 15:38:21 <MohammadAG> Jaffa, then?
Jun 28 15:38:38 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: Then you can ssh -P 2222 external to get through to the remote box
Jun 28 15:39:18 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer:  Sorry - I may have misunderstood - I understood that report way back of yours gave TA to multiple cells.
Jun 28 15:39:19 <DocScrutinizer> if there's no NAT
Jun 28 15:39:41 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: Actually, by default you'll have to "ssh -P 2222 localhost" unless you've reconfigured SSH to listen on remote ports beyond the loopback address
Jun 28 15:39:48 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: No, this is SSHing back over an SSH tunnel
Jun 28 15:39:58 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: As long as you can get out, you can get back in
Jun 28 15:40:01 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: it does. I managed to get the TA for NCEL by forcing the phone to register with all those BTS
Jun 28 15:40:16 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: Ah. I see, thanks.
Jun 28 15:40:17 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: AAAH
Jun 28 15:41:04 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: TA is a parameter the BTS tells to MT
Jun 28 15:41:08 <Kaadlajk> MohammadAG: try "/usr/bin/aegis-exec -a CAP::sys_admin /usr/bin/dmesg"
Jun 28 15:41:16 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: you need to actually talk to BTS to get TA
Jun 28 15:41:25 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: yes, I know. I was assuming things.
Jun 28 15:41:42 <lardman> Kaadlajk: I thought devel-su was supposed to support the Harmattan security model?
Jun 28 15:41:54 <frals> lardman: whats devel-su? O_o
Jun 28 15:42:11 <Kaadlajk> never heard of it either
Jun 28 15:42:16 <lardman> a tool listed here: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Activating_developer_mode
Jun 28 15:42:46 <lardman> but perhaps that's just the package name, who knows
Jun 28 15:43:13 <Kaadlajk> "devel-su root" should work apparently
Jun 28 15:44:00 <frals> uh, dont have that package installed here
Jun 28 15:44:09 <Kaadlajk> should come with developer mode
Jun 28 15:44:30 <frals> didnt for me
Jun 28 15:44:49 <MohammadAG> http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/MeeGo/syslog
Jun 28 15:44:51 <frals> guess ill ping someone about it tomorrow if i remember ;o
Jun 28 15:44:51 <Kaadlajk> maybe this doc is out-of-date 
Jun 28 15:45:03 <frals> MohammadAG: 403 and then 404
Jun 28 15:45:03 <frals> ;p
Jun 28 15:45:05 <DocScrutinizer> hehe, so can we assume "N950 out in the wild" state now - though even virtual
Jun 28 15:45:33 <DocScrutinizer> so e.g achipa may post pastebins of his device's dmesg etc?
Jun 28 15:45:56 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: Quoth the server '404'.
Jun 28 15:46:38 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: fix file permissions!
Jun 28 15:46:56 <DocScrutinizer> You don't have permission to access /public/MeeGo/syslog.txt on this server
Jun 28 15:47:03 <alterego> Heh
Jun 28 15:47:07 <MohammadAG> http://paste.ubuntu.com/634371/
Jun 28 15:47:29 <DocScrutinizer> haha
Jun 28 15:47:33 <alterego> 2.6.32 ..
Jun 28 15:47:34 <alterego> Nice ..
Jun 28 15:47:52 <DocScrutinizer> ok, now we'Re talking
Jun 28 15:48:13 <DocScrutinizer> I'll keep it for later... afk for a while
Jun 28 15:48:26 <lardman> SmartReflex working now apparently
Jun 28 15:48:39 <frals> hmm
Jun 28 15:48:43 <DocScrutinizer> you mean they enabled it?
Jun 28 15:48:59 <lardman> hmm, perhaps not then, just the driver is present
Jun 28 15:49:02 <alterego> N950 only has 512M RAM?
Jun 28 15:49:04 <DocScrutinizer> it's always been thare until recently, on n900
Jun 28 15:49:06 <frals> i wouldnt make too many assumptions about the dev devices going out from that dmesg
Jun 28 15:49:17 <alterego> Yeah ...
Jun 28 15:49:35 <DocScrutinizer> frals: indeed
Jun 28 15:50:00 <DocScrutinizer> but I make assumptions about the OS and kernel running there, based on uname -a etc
Jun 28 15:50:24 <lardman> hmm, root on an SD card
Jun 28 15:50:29 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, bbl
Jun 28 15:51:13 <lardman> BCM4751 GPS driver, /me looks for spec sheet
Jun 28 15:52:31 <hiemanshu> mmcblk0: mmc0:0001 F0KC0M 60.0 GiB 
Jun 28 15:52:58 <Jaffa> hiemanshu: Was about to paste that myself.
Jun 28 15:53:19 <alterego> Wow, swap on nand
Jun 28 15:53:29 <lardman> pretty recent image on the cellular bit: SW=DFL61_HARMATTAN_1.2011.22-6_PR_RM680
Jun 28 15:53:45 <pabs3> huh, 0.2% bad erase blocks
Jun 28 15:55:11 <lardman> lol bme: [bmetimer_calc_cc_diff()] Insane coulomb counter difference: 419362815
Jun 28 15:55:48 <hiemanshu> Jaffa: hah, I beat you to it :P
Jun 28 15:56:31 <hiemanshu> ALSA device list: #0: dfl61-twl4030 (twl4030) #1: dfl61-dac33 (tlv320dac33)
Jun 28 15:57:11 <javispedro> I've read something about RDA being available already?
Jun 28 15:57:34 <hiemanshu> input: ST LIS3LV02DL Accelerometer as /devices/platform/lis3lv02d/input/input7
Jun 28 15:57:36 <pabs3> javispedro: yep, MohammadAG posted the syslog from it: http://paste.ubuntu.com/634371/
Jun 28 15:57:55 <hiemanshu> input: ST LIS3LV02DL Accelerometer as /devices/platform/lis3lv02d/input/input7
Jun 28 15:57:59 <DocScrutinizer> lardman: http://wiki.maemo.org/Category:N950_Hardware
Jun 28 15:57:59 <hiemanshu> ugh
Jun 28 15:58:23 <lardman> docscrutinizer: ah thanks
Jun 28 15:58:58 <javispedro> kernel: [62453.751739] Aegis: pastebin.py verification failed (no reference hash)
Jun 28 15:59:01 <javispedro> device is in closed mode
Jun 28 15:59:05 <javispedro> aegis fully armed and operational :S
Jun 28 15:59:25 <Jaffa> javispedro: MohammadAG has an RDA session right now
Jun 28 15:59:27 <javispedro> so what can you do in developer mode?
Jun 28 16:01:07 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: toldya
Jun 28 16:01:14 <DocScrutinizer> :-/
Jun 28 16:01:43 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer, but he was able to run it after all, so what happened?
Jun 28 16:01:55 <DocScrutinizer> kernel: [    0.088806] musb_hdrc: version 6.0, musb-dma, peripheral,
Jun 28 16:02:10 <DocScrutinizer> but probably little use in messing with that either then
Jun 28 16:02:14 <lardman> hmm interesting, that gps chipset supports LTO
Jun 28 16:02:56 <DocScrutinizer> LTO?
Jun 28 16:03:08 <lardman> Long Term Orbit
Jun 28 16:03:09 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: no clue
Jun 28 16:03:11 <Jaffa> Low Target Orbit?
Jun 28 16:03:15 <Jaffa> Oh, wow - it is orbit.
Jun 28 16:03:26 <Jaffa> lardman: Guessing satellite positions into the future?
Jun 28 16:03:30 <lardman> high precision ephemeris predictions
Jun 28 16:03:34 <lardman> yep
Jun 28 16:04:11 <DocScrutinizer> umm, thought all chips did that. then otoh I got no clue about GPS, really
Jun 28 16:04:11 <SpeedEvil> lardman: Oh - and you asked earlier about camera openness - it's implied you can screw with it. See http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/06/27/damian-dinning-on-nokia-n9-imaging/
Jun 28 16:04:19 <lardman> http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/tb/LTO-TB100-R.pdf
Jun 28 16:04:22 <lardman> thanks SpeedEvil 
Jun 28 16:04:49 * DocScrutinizer heads out again
Jun 28 16:06:32 <lardman> time to head for my internetless home, catch you guys tomorrow
Jun 28 16:06:37 <lardman> MohammadAG: have fun! :)
Jun 28 16:11:55 * javispedro is interested in dfl61
Jun 28 16:12:56 <javispedro> MohammadAG, can you also pastebin /etc/pulse/daemon.conf , /etc/pulse/default.pa =)
Jun 28 16:13:19 <javispedro> or I will get those from rootfs, forget.
Jun 28 16:14:06 <alterego> Heh, Harmattan still has libConIc
Jun 28 16:14:28 <MohammadAG> damn internet connection
Jun 28 16:15:04 <javispedro> alterego, it still has icd2
Jun 28 16:15:19 <alterego> I want that IMEI: 004402131922233
Jun 28 16:15:57 <MohammadAG> javispedro, need anything not in rootfs?
Jun 28 16:16:23 <javispedro> alsa controls, but I do not have any binary to dump them arund
Jun 28 16:16:48 <alterego> MohammadAG: you could tar up the whole rootfs so we can get Nokia closed binaries
Jun 28 16:16:53 <alterego> Oh wait, we already have those.
Jun 28 16:17:06 <alterego> It's really just system information that's useful from a device right now I guess.
Jun 28 16:17:31 <javispedro> "amixer contents" would list controls
Jun 28 16:17:41 <javispedro> not sure if amixer is around
Jun 28 16:17:57 * alterego wonders if you can do a tree /sys
Jun 28 16:18:02 <alterego> Without it doing a recursive loop
Jun 28 16:18:12 <javispedro> alterego, find does detect loops
Jun 28 16:18:17 <alterego> Neat
Jun 28 16:18:18 <javispedro> alterego, even busybox's iirc.
Jun 28 16:18:19 <frals> javispedro: amixer is there
Jun 28 16:18:35 <alterego> MohammadAG: find /sys > sysfs.tree
Jun 28 16:18:36 <alterego> :)
Jun 28 16:19:06 <javispedro> MohammadAG, also a trivial one: ps ax
Jun 28 16:19:17 <frals> javispedro: otoh im using preproduction sw etc so no guarantees
Jun 28 16:19:30 <MohammadAG> why the fuck does pastebinit not work
Jun 28 16:19:36 <javispedro> MohammadAG, and qdbus =)
Jun 28 16:19:48 <javispedro> MohammadAG, how did you paste syslog ?
Jun 28 16:21:55 <MohammadAG> javispedro, http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=zTq0gSTY
Jun 28 16:23:39 <MohammadAG> javispedro, scp and pastebinit from PC :P
Jun 28 16:23:47 <alterego> MohammadAG: psst, find /sys > sysfs.tree
Jun 28 16:23:49 <alterego> please
Jun 28 16:24:08 <MohammadAG> I wonder if this reduces my chances of getting an N950
Jun 28 16:24:25 * javispedro lols at cat /sys/kernel/debug/pvr//hwrec_event
Jun 28 16:24:25 <alterego> Heh
Jun 28 16:24:28 <alterego> I don't see why :P
Jun 28 16:24:32 <javispedro> MohammadAG, we didn't had any to begin with ;)
Jun 28 16:24:58 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: df -h to confirm the MMC size from syslog - just in case things are screwy and to better see the partition layout
Jun 28 16:25:22 <alterego> Jaffa: wouldn't cat /proc/partitions be better for that ;)
Jun 28 16:25:49 <alterego> Well, I'm resigned to the fact that I probably wont be getting a package today :(
Jun 28 16:25:49 <frals> Jaffa: dont make assumptions about n950 mmc size based on that ;o
Jun 28 16:25:53 <MohammadAG> alterego, I was stupid enough to cat that
Jun 28 16:26:00 <MohammadAG> so wait till ssh clears out :p
Jun 28 16:26:02 <frals> alehorst: i got a package today!
Jun 28 16:26:09 <alterego> MohammadAG: cat what?
Jun 28 16:26:12 <frals> uh, alterego*
Jun 28 16:26:18 <alterego> /proc/partitions shouldn't be beg ..
Jun 28 16:26:21 <jonwil> Hharmattan still has the closed source mess that is the CSD daemon
Jun 28 16:26:23 <alterego> frals: :(
Jun 28 16:26:29 <alterego> Everyone got a package but me.
Jun 28 16:26:33 <javispedro> jonwil, that was  known...
Jun 28 16:26:36 <frals> alterego: was from Lee store thou. not sure what you are expecting :P
Jun 28 16:26:48 <alterego> I'm expecting a Nokia N8 and a book on Qt
Jun 28 16:27:06 <alterego> lcuk got his today  :(
Jun 28 16:27:18 * jonwil is surprised at the amount of useful information out there if one knows where to look
Jun 28 16:27:27 <alterego> Can't believe they'd go to Mancester first, and he asked for a C5-03 as well ..
Jun 28 16:27:29 <jonwil> or one finds it by accident looking for other things
Jun 28 16:27:37 <SpeedEvil> jonwil: yeah - the problem is that it's hideously organised.
Jun 28 16:27:52 <MohammadAG> his what? N950?
Jun 28 16:27:53 <alterego> I should probably look to get a tracking number if it doesn't arrive in the next couple of days.
Jun 28 16:27:55 <achipa> frals: ditto. Not from Lee :) Not to think how to fit a 12mm oversize monitor into a desk frame...
Jun 28 16:27:59 <Jaffa> frals: I don't assume anything, but if we go off yours having 16GB and another one having 60GB...
Jun 28 16:28:00 <SpeedEvil> jonwil: And the assumption is often that stuff is closed, when it may not be - because everything else it talks to is closed.
Jun 28 16:28:25 <frals> Jaffa: im sure achipa can tell you his size ;-)
Jun 28 16:28:27 <jonwil> Got an example of something that appears closed at first glance but isnt?
Jun 28 16:28:37 <frals> achipa: heh, thats why desk frames are bad ;)
Jun 28 16:28:39 <alterego> Jaffa: these test devices may need more storage to allow for more application developers to copy stuff on 'em.
Jun 28 16:28:53 <jonwil> hmmm, maemosec and maemosec-certman seem to fit that bill IIRC
Jun 28 16:28:55 <jonwil> they are open source
Jun 28 16:29:03 <jonwil> including all the certificate files
Jun 28 16:29:34 <jonwil> but the code isn't in the "free" repos
Jun 28 16:29:38 <jonwil> its out there though
Jun 28 16:30:23 <MohammadAG> Jaffa, 62
Jun 28 16:30:25 <achipa> frals: hey, when that desk was made, I'm pretty sure nobody expected monitors of that size, maybe not even TVs ;)
Jun 28 16:30:27 <MohammadAG> so 64GBs
Jun 28 16:30:41 <frals> achipa: sounds like it's time for a new desk ;-)
Jun 28 16:30:42 <jonwil> I found a whole pile of stuff related to bme and libbmeipc, I think with that I can make just about any BME libbmepic call
Jun 28 16:30:43 <MohammadAG> alterego, http://paste.ubuntu.com/634409/
Jun 28 16:31:05 <achipa> frals: still contemplating if I can around it by a software solution ;)
Jun 28 16:31:11 <frals> :D
Jun 28 16:31:30 <jonwil> there is also documentation for talking to both libcsd-net and libcsd-gprs out there
Jun 28 16:31:38 <Jaffa> achipa: Can you confirm the MMC size of the DDP N950s? ;-)
Jun 28 16:31:55 <achipa> Jaffa: 16G
Jun 28 16:32:07 <Jaffa> achipa: Thanks
Jun 28 16:32:24 <frals> achipa: any contact info for the remote device access crap?
Jun 28 16:32:50 <achipa> frals: yes ?
Jun 28 16:33:05 <MohammadAG> Jaffa, http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=x1BRwKTc
Jun 28 16:33:07 <achipa> villev might have an idea :)
Jun 28 16:33:31 <frals> ok, curious why they are using HW different from the DDP...
Jun 28 16:33:51 <frals> guess ill go hunting in phonebook tomorrow at work ;p
Jun 28 16:34:04 <MohammadAG> so they're not the same devices
Jun 28 16:34:24 <achipa> frals: no need
Jun 28 16:34:28 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: Can you activate the front and back cameras and take photos of it, so we can see if it's black or silver? ;-)
Jun 28 16:34:56 <Jaffa> (hoping there's a conveniently placed reflective surface & CSI-style photo enhancement software available to us)
Jun 28 16:35:17 <MohammadAG> Jaffa, RDA can't show that
Jun 28 16:35:27 <MohammadAG> and last time I took a pic with a 5800 I saw cables
Jun 28 16:35:34 <MohammadAG> got a gstreamer commad?
Jun 28 16:36:39 <MohammadAG> /dev nodes: http://pastebin.com/NJWYLPJn
Jun 28 16:36:43 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: No idea
Jun 28 16:38:14 <alterego> video{0,1,2,3,4,5,6} ?
Jun 28 16:39:00 <achipa> Jaffa: and, of course, they are not  DDP but, "N9DK" or whatever
Jun 28 16:39:04 <MohammadAG> don't look at me :p
Jun 28 16:40:05 <achipa> ooofff.... something tells me the trolls use HD screens
Jun 28 16:40:27 <achipa> just tried QtC on one and suddenly the size of stuff is right :)
Jun 28 16:40:45 <MohammadAG> lol
Jun 28 16:41:04 <MohammadAG> Jaffa, any way to check if it has HDMI ports? so you can post on meego.com forums that it doesn't have any? :P
Jun 28 16:41:06 <frals> achipa: i remember having to fiddle around when i tried it on my 2560x1920 screen at work ;(
Jun 28 16:41:48 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: We know it doesn't have any ports; the guy wants it to be a magic signal muxed into the headphone jack ;-)
Jun 28 16:42:10 <achipa> frals: yeah, that's prolly too much, 1680x720 is still too small, 1920x1080 is just right
Jun 28 16:42:27 <javispedro> oh it has many hdmi ports, as soon as I connect this DisplayLink device...
Jun 28 16:42:43 <frals> achipa: as long as the screen size is decent as well. 1920x1080 on 15.6" is *NOT* right :D
Jun 28 16:43:14 <achipa> yeah, yeah
Jun 28 16:43:27 <MohammadAG> oh that AEGIS shit is bullcrap
Jun 28 16:43:29 <MohammadAG> RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# chmod +x sociality-harmattan-armel 
Jun 28 16:43:30 <MohammadAG> RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# ./sociality-harmattan-armel 
Jun 28 16:43:30 <MohammadAG> -sh: ./sociality-harmattan-armel: Operation not permitted
Jun 28 16:43:43 <achipa> 24" is a minimum for HD, at least for my eyes, 27" is the ideal one
Jun 28 16:43:52 <javispedro> MohammadAG, try installing  it from a .deb instead of using scp
Jun 28 16:43:53 <frals> achipa: sounds about right :)
Jun 28 16:44:02 <MohammadAG> javispedro, I don't have a deb
Jun 28 16:44:08 <alterego> MohammadAG: try not executing it on fat filesystem :P
Jun 28 16:44:10 <achipa> MohammadAG: yeah, that is a pain
Jun 28 16:44:23 <MohammadAG> alterego, I'm use / isn't fat :p
Jun 28 16:44:24 <javispedro> alterego, bad answer, msdos filesystem would have barked on chmod
Jun 28 16:44:31 <frals> nuking /usr/sbin/validator-init should work on RDA
Jun 28 16:44:43 <achipa> alterego: won't help, no running of executables not put there by package management/aegis
Jun 28 16:44:56 <alterego> Oh, :/
Jun 28 16:45:03 <alterego> Is this the security crap?
Jun 28 16:45:11 <javispedro> alterego, yes...
Jun 28 16:45:24 <alterego> Lame
Jun 28 16:45:30 <alterego> I hope we can disable that
Jun 28 16:45:35 <alterego> I want viruz
Jun 28 16:45:40 <MohammadAG> achipa, but it's in developer mode
Jun 28 16:45:43 <javispedro> it's called "open mode" aiui
Jun 28 16:45:50 <javispedro> no idea still what developer mode allows.
Jun 28 16:46:06 <MohammadAG> javispedro, to me developer-mode seems like a big metapackage
Jun 28 16:46:09 <MohammadAG> installs terminal etc
Jun 28 16:46:10 <javispedro> just I believe it is "something lesser" than full open mode.
Jun 28 16:46:11 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: According to Quim developer mode *is* different to open mode
Jun 28 16:46:18 <achipa> MohammadAG: that's not really how it goes... but you'll figure out 
Jun 28 16:46:34 <javispedro> why the secrecy dammit?
Jun 28 16:46:34 <MohammadAG> RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# aegis-developer-mode 
Jun 28 16:46:35 <MohammadAG> Usage:
Jun 28 16:46:35 <MohammadAG> aegis-developer-mode [--developer-origin <value>] [--relaxed-exec] [--help]
Jun 28 16:46:35 <MohammadAG>   --help        Help screen (this)
Jun 28 16:46:35 <MohammadAG>   --relaxed-exec        Enable relaxed exec mode.
Jun 28 16:46:36 <MohammadAG>   --developer-origin    Set developer origin to be <value>
Jun 28 16:46:48 <javispedro> just ship the damn devices so that we can finally find aegis is THE EVIL REINCARNATED!!! ;)
Jun 28 16:46:50 <achipa> yep, developer mode is the proprietary one, but with safety belts off
Jun 28 16:47:03 <achipa> open mode is the one without the outer shell :)
Jun 28 16:47:21 <javispedro> hmm
Jun 28 16:47:25 <MohammadAG> this is crappy at best
Jun 28 16:47:31 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: --relaxed-exec sounds handy
Jun 28 16:47:32 <MohammadAG> I need to see what aegis does
Jun 28 16:47:39 <MohammadAG> Jaffa, permission denied
Jun 28 16:47:40 <achipa> it's not that bad (compared to what it could be doing to you)
Jun 28 16:47:45 <MohammadAG> RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# aegis-developer-mode --relaxed-exec
Jun 28 16:47:46 <MohammadAG> Error: Permission denied
Jun 28 16:48:24 <javispedro> MohammadAG, resistance is futile. 
Jun 28 16:48:37 <MohammadAG> usage: aegis-constrain COMMAND VALUE
Jun 28 16:48:37 <MohammadAG> The available commands are:
Jun 28 16:48:37 <MohammadAG>         imei imei-code  Test the imei number of the device
Jun 28 16:48:37 <MohammadAG>         mode open       Test the mode of the device (open)
Jun 28 16:48:39 <MohammadAG> ooh
Jun 28 16:49:38 <jonwil> By far the worst thing with information spelunking is when you find information that sounds great but turns out not to be available to you, e.g. the link to the (closed access) git repo here http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/unstable/beta/api_refs/xml/daily-docs/libcellular-qt/
Jun 28 16:50:16 <pabs3> whee
Jun 28 16:51:09 <javispedro> jonwil, lol
Jun 28 16:51:23 <javispedro> jonwil, were you here yesterday when I discussed that ~120MiB source code leak
Jun 28 16:51:37 <frals> source code leak?
Jun 28 16:51:40 <Jaffa> ?
Jun 28 16:52:06 * javispedro is looking up irc logs link
Jun 28 16:52:34 <javispedro> http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-06-28.log.html#t2011-06-28T01:17:34
Jun 28 16:52:49 <jonwil> package-manager is what exactly?
Jun 28 16:52:54 <MohammadAG> k, so we know how it adds executables
Jun 28 16:52:55 <MohammadAG> RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# /usr/bin/aegis-postinst-hook 
Jun 28 16:52:56 <javispedro> nobody I know could fetch it and see what was inside
Jun 28 16:52:58 <jonwil> and what would have been in this tarball if we could have gotten it?
Jun 28 16:53:07 <MohammadAG> Package name is missing
Jun 28 16:53:20 <MohammadAG> and /usr/bin/aegis-preinst-hook
Jun 28 16:53:24 <javispedro> jonwil, dunno, but it is surely not 120MiB. So there was way more there, or maybe just random garbage. Who knows.
Jun 28 16:53:48 <jonwil> unfortunatly the file was removed before anyone could snarf it
Jun 28 16:55:13 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: In answer to your pre-rm for library patching - stash the original alongside the patched, and if it is missing fail the uninstall
Jun 28 16:55:18 <MohammadAG> yay, icd2 in Harmattan
Jun 28 16:57:47 <javispedro> jonwil, but it has been very close, I had been also talking about package-manager itself yesterday so I had scheduled downloading it as soon as I got home
Jun 28 16:58:04 <javispedro> and then realized it was gone -- must have been yesterday or two days ago max
Jun 28 16:58:41 * javispedro ponders the evil deeds he could have done with 120MiB of who-knows-what
Jun 28 16:59:05 <frals> javispedro: 120MiB of german midget porn? ;)
Jun 28 16:59:40 <javispedro> eeww
Jun 28 17:01:09 <javispedro> what are 120MiB of german midget porn doing in harmattan-dev.nokia.com ? =)
Jun 28 17:01:26 <MohammadAG> and how does frals know? :P
Jun 28 17:01:33 <javispedro> I mean, I've seen worse stuff in professor's completely public samba shares, but..
Jun 28 17:01:34 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: thanks
Jun 28 17:01:38 <MohammadAG> how does aegis work?
Jun 28 17:02:03 <MohammadAG> I mean, how does it hook into the device? kernel?
Jun 28 17:02:04 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: I can't believe nobody is running a git mirror for $nokia
Jun 28 17:02:05 <javispedro> MohammadAG, if you don't know, it's working 
Jun 28 17:02:21 <Corsac> MohammadAG: yes, and a userspace daemon
Jun 28 17:04:26 <MohammadAG> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=G92Ugk7c
Jun 28 17:05:59 <DocScrutinizer> damn you MohammadAG - 18000 lines of pastebin :-P
Jun 28 17:06:37 <MohammadAG> heh
Jun 28 17:06:46 <MohammadAG> alterego, can a qml file in a binary be decompiled?
Jun 28 17:07:18 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: QML files aren't compiled yet. Coming in Qt Quick 2.0, IIRC
Jun 28 17:07:27 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: So they're only bundled/compressed as qrcs
Jun 28 17:07:59 <MohammadAG> actually no use, C++ backend
Jun 28 17:08:02 <javispedro> so they can
Jun 28 17:08:09 <javispedro> hm
Jun 28 17:08:18 <Jaffa> Interesting: the Drive & Facebook apps seems to be QML
Jun 28 17:08:29 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: Is that what you were looking at?
Jun 28 17:08:33 <frals> MohammadAG: dont steal my code ;-)
Jun 28 17:08:34 * javispedro notes that webos-closed components are actually more hackable than Maemo's, because, after all they're HTML and JavaScript
Jun 28 17:08:38 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: where's the mystery tarball been sitting?
Jun 28 17:08:46 <javispedro> so people just hack on them right away
Jun 28 17:08:54 <javispedro> and distribute patches (quilt files actually)
Jun 28 17:09:02 <javispedro> so, if QML is not compiled...
Jun 28 17:09:18 * javispedro stops daydreaming
Jun 28 17:09:24 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer, you have the full url on irc logs
Jun 28 17:09:27 <hiemanshu> well from the comments on my app post, it seems like plain Qt is ugly on the N9 atleast
Jun 28 17:09:38 <javispedro> hiemanshu, why?
Jun 28 17:10:10 <hiemanshu> 'They could be bigger, utilize the whole toolbar (not just the right corner of it) and look less like Windows 95 :-)'
Jun 28 17:10:13 <hiemanshu> javispedro: ^
Jun 28 17:10:27 <MohammadAG> Jaffa, yes, facebookqml
Jun 28 17:10:27 <MohammadAG> stringing the binary shows the QML files, but they're more than 1, so ripping each one is a bit hard :p
Jun 28 17:10:41 <frals> MohammadAG: and you would be in violation with the license
Jun 28 17:10:45 <MohammadAG> frals, fu I'm selling it on ebay!
Jun 28 17:10:50 <frals> s/with/of/ maybe
Jun 28 17:11:09 <MohammadAG> Valerio, isn't that VDVsx?
Jun 28 17:11:27 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: Yup
Jun 28 17:11:31 <javispedro> hiemanshu, you should try it yourself on sbox sdk
Jun 28 17:12:03 <hiemanshu> javispedro: it looks fine there, but that is a comment I got on my app
Jun 28 17:12:22 <MohammadAG> frals, jk, naturally :p
Jun 28 17:12:34 <hiemanshu> except QWebView just crashes in the sbox SDK
Jun 28 17:12:36 <MohammadAG> so VDVsx wrote the facebook app
Jun 28 17:12:51 <MohammadAG> I suggest again, using QLabel
Jun 28 17:12:57 <MohammadAG> QWebView isn't practical for an image
Jun 28 17:13:01 <frals> MohammadAG: what are you basing that on? ;)
Jun 28 17:13:06 <javispedro> QWebView for an image?
Jun 28 17:13:18 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: honestly, somebody should set up a mirror for http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/ and sync 2 times a day
Jun 28 17:13:19 <javispedro> that's probably entire webkit...
Jun 28 17:13:22 <MohammadAG> frals, nothing, just his (C) being in each qml file
Jun 28 17:13:30 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer, technically we can only do for packages in free
Jun 28 17:13:31 <hiemanshu> javispedro: well more than an image, it does some scraping too
Jun 28 17:13:45 <DocScrutinizer> technically?
Jun 28 17:13:46 <frals> MohammadAG: sure it says (C) Valerio? ;)
Jun 28 17:13:51 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: have the bug link handy?
Jun 28 17:14:06 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer, ok, legally.
Jun 28 17:14:08 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: Usually such things should say (C) <employer>
Jun 28 17:14:28 <javispedro> (C) 2011 Stephen Elop, All Rights Reserved.
Jun 28 17:14:28 <DocScrutinizer> I can download whatever they offer. I mustn't share
Jun 28 17:14:30 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: (the sbox webview bug)
Jun 28 17:14:33 <DocScrutinizer> big difference
Jun 28 17:14:45 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer, you said "Mirror".
Jun 28 17:15:14 <javispedro> but I get the idea.
Jun 28 17:15:17 <MohammadAG> Jaffa, Contact:, nvm :p
Jun 28 17:15:22 <DocScrutinizer> I didn't say publicly accessible mirror
Jun 28 17:15:38 <MohammadAG> http://www.developer.nokia.com/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=197 and povbot, stfu
Jun 28 17:15:40 <povbot> 04Bug 197: kernel builds, but device keeps rebooting
Jun 28 17:15:55 <frals> wtf
Jun 28 17:15:55 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: aiui there are ready-made scripts for that purpose?
Jun 28 17:15:58 <javispedro> hate povbot being in red
Jun 28 17:16:01 <frals> i need to signin to VIEW bugs there?
Jun 28 17:16:04 * frals spits
Jun 28 17:16:15 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer, wget can
Jun 28 17:16:22 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer, man wget, grep for spider
Jun 28 17:16:26 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, indeed
Jun 28 17:16:58 <DocScrutinizer> now if I had a bit more storage than the meager 30GB on my box
Jun 28 17:17:15 <javispedro> in the near future I'm going to download-spider the docs, cause I want them in plucker version
Jun 28 17:17:33 <DocScrutinizer> backbone you don't think that'S possible, but only 30GB :-/
Jun 28 17:17:39 <frals> DocScrutinizer: /dev/sda1             917G  208G  705G  23% /mnt/storage1
Jun 28 17:17:49 <frals> DocScrutinizer: only on 100Mbit downlink thou :[
Jun 28 17:18:08 <javispedro> [sda] 195371568 512-byte logical blocks: (100 GB/93.1 GiB)
Jun 28 17:18:11 <javispedro> don't laugh.
Jun 28 17:18:42 <DocScrutinizer> /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol00                       47G  8.5G   36G  20% /
Jun 28 17:18:58 <GAN900> Ha!
Jun 28 17:19:02 <MohammadAG> hahaha
Jun 28 17:19:02 <MohammadAG> what am I laughing at?
Jun 28 17:19:14 <javispedro> who has the shortest epenis competition!
Jun 28 17:20:04 <frals> /dev/mmcblk0p2        6.7G  1.7G  4.8G  26% /
Jun 28 17:20:08 <frals> on this machine :<
Jun 28 17:20:27 <javispedro> frals, cheating, that's an embedded device
Jun 28 17:21:05 <frals> javispedro: bah :( its my sheeva!
Jun 28 17:21:09 <MohammadAG> lemme telnet into my decoder box
Jun 28 17:21:17 <DocScrutinizer> 2011-06-28 19:17:50 (6.40 MB/s) - `binutils_2.19.51.20090709-0maemo10+0m6.tar.gz' saved [21038587/21038587]
Jun 28 17:21:22 <javispedro> my router has a 16MiB flash chip. of which 15MiB are used =)
Jun 28 17:21:37 <frals> think my router actually has 64MiB
Jun 28 17:22:24 <frals> or not
Jun 28 17:22:26 <frals> /dev/root                 5.6M      5.6M         0 100% /
Jun 28 17:22:26 * jonwil is surprised that Harmattan seems to be taking backwards steps on openness in a few areas
Jun 28 17:22:30 <DocScrutinizer> I have to talk to my 'sysadmin' to give me some more GB
Jun 28 17:22:46 <frals> <3 dd-wrt
Jun 28 17:22:47 <MohammadAG> mostly the UI jonwil 
Jun 28 17:23:08 <MohammadAG> dd-wrt didn't support my "open" router, so <3 OpenWRT :P
Jun 28 17:23:15 <jonwil> I dont think the UI of Harmattan is any less open than that of Fremantle
Jun 28 17:23:28 <jonwil> the core UI libs all seem to be open
Jun 28 17:23:33 <jonwil> for the most part
Jun 28 17:23:38 <javispedro>  we need objective data on this 
Jun 28 17:23:41 <javispedro> cause I also got that feeling.
Jun 28 17:23:44 <jonwil> and the actual apps are just as closed as they were on Fremantle
Jun 28 17:23:46 <MohammadAG> it is
Jun 28 17:23:50 <MohammadAG> swiping is closed
Jun 28 17:24:03 <MohammadAG> email client is closed, modest was open :p
Jun 28 17:24:14 <jonwil> yeah that sucks that the email client is closed
Jun 28 17:24:29 <javispedro> revolt! grab the pitchforks!
Jun 28 17:24:37 <Jaffa> Especially if it sucks. Spoiled by iOS' on the iPad understanding archiving etc. for Gmail
Jun 28 17:24:51 <jonwil> I suspect the package manager is closed because of all the new security stuff
Jun 28 17:25:44 <javispedro> jonwil, security is actually also handled by apt-get (has to be), so I don't think so
Jun 28 17:25:52 <Jaffa> jonwil: Aegis itself was supposed to be open source
Jun 28 17:26:22 <frals> iirc parts of securitycrap is on meego.gitorious.org
Jun 28 17:26:33 <frals> or somewhere around there, no telling what happend when intel took a shit on it thou
Jun 28 17:26:35 <jonwil> swiping being closed makes sense, its something fancy Nokia have invented and dont want to share
Jun 28 17:27:29 <frals> MohammadAG: qmf is open thou! ;-)
Jun 28 17:27:56 <jonwil> email client being closed, if its a totally new written-from-scratch email client then it is probably closed for the same reasons dialer and other UI/UX is closed
Jun 28 17:28:41 <javispedro> jonwil, sadly what worries me about swipe is the definition of it. For now, I understand it includes the slidng animations, swipe gesture detection actual algorithm, swipe launcher, swipe task switcher, swipe coffee maker machine..
Jun 28 17:28:48 <javispedro> all of them closed.
Jun 28 17:29:00 <jonwil> yeah its stupid that its closed
Jun 28 17:29:05 <jonwil> but Nokia invented it and dont want to share
Jun 28 17:29:32 <jonwil> They probably also dont want to see people hacking certain bits of it in ways they dont want (e.g. talk about people wanting close buttons on apps)
Jun 28 17:30:19 <javispedro> technically that is doable
Jun 28 17:30:22 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: maybe the 120MB tarball had the complete apt cache?
Jun 28 17:30:23 <jonwil> apt-get is GPL, is it not?
Jun 28 17:30:45 <javispedro> jonwil, I think there can be "hooks" into it that can be in separate binaries, and that's how they do it
Jun 28 17:30:50 <javispedro> it has a name, I don't remember it
Jun 28 17:31:01 <javispedro> s/they do it/they get away with it
Jun 28 17:31:39 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer, or midget porn. I really have no idea. The only way I could think of filling 120MiB is with all the theme source images, or sth.
Jun 28 17:31:55 <javispedro> jonwil, ah, "triggers"
Jun 28 17:32:58 <MohammadAG> javispedro, aegis-postinst-hook
Jun 28 17:34:44 <javispedro> oh, so there's fmrx and tx hardware, ut no antenna connected to tx,
Jun 28 17:34:49 <javispedro> and headphones as antenna as usual for rx
Jun 28 17:36:06 <RST38h> Produce purveyors create edible iPhone
Jun 28 17:36:10 <jonwil> btw, whoever it was that said they wanted a hald-addon-bme replacement, I posted a message to the devel list with all the information required to allow one to completly replace bme, libbmeipc and hald-addon-bme with something talking directly to the hardware
Jun 28 17:36:13 <RST38h> I am sure N9 can't do that!
Jun 28 17:36:24 <jonwil> and yet mantain functionality of all the closed-source bits
Jun 28 17:36:49 <frals> <jonwil> They probably also dont want to see people hacking certain bits of it in ways they dont want (e.g. talk about people wanting close buttons on apps)
Jun 28 17:36:54 <frals> but we have swipe down to close! ;-)
Jun 28 17:38:15 <javispedro> RST38h: N9 surely can be eaten.
Jun 28 17:38:31 <javispedro> you might even gain superpowers if you survive the experience.
Jun 28 17:38:43 <RST38h> oh
Jun 28 17:38:54 <javispedro> which you will need cause Elop will then come and kill you for promoting the N9.
Jun 28 17:39:04 <RST38h> If I survive the experience, I may have well hadthe super powersto begin with
Jun 28 17:41:42 <cloudyLights> how come there is no "screen" for the N900
Jun 28 17:41:53 <cloudyLights> apt-get install screen = no package
Jun 28 17:42:00 <cloudyLights> what?
Jun 28 17:42:08 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: NO antenna on TX?? W*T*F??!?!!
Jun 28 17:42:34 <cloudyLights> TX?
Jun 28 17:43:35 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer, http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=23726&postcount=301
Jun 28 17:44:45 <DocScrutinizer> OMFG
Jun 28 17:45:24 <DocScrutinizer> I wonder if they were at very least polite enough to have a testpoint then
Jun 28 17:45:24 <RST38h> Doc: I am sure that with an electrode connecting the N950 with just the right part of one's body, FMTX is also possible!
Jun 28 17:45:38 <ShadowJK> lol
Jun 28 17:46:37 <javispedro> now I realize that fmtx is probably broken since day 0 on my n900
Jun 28 17:46:46 <ShadowJK> hm?
Jun 28 17:46:51 <RST38h> well...n900 fmtx is very very weak
Jun 28 17:47:01 <javispedro> cause it's not normal that I'm the only one not caring about it because it's range was in the centimers
Jun 28 17:47:07 <RST38h> to thepoint of unusability
Jun 28 17:47:18 <javispedro> RST38h, so yours too? =)
Jun 28 17:47:20 <RST38h> Yep
Jun 28 17:47:31 <ShadowJK> A coworker once said he heard the fmtx, and he was standing 20 metres away :P
Jun 28 17:47:34 <DocScrutinizer> see, that's what you earn by not running your device thru DocScrutinizer's acme awesome hw QA
Jun 28 17:47:42 <RST38h> Your receiver has to have a really good antenna, then it gets a bit better
Jun 28 17:47:43 <javispedro> _no car I've ever been could listen to the n900 fmtx_
Jun 28 17:47:50 <javispedro> _none_
Jun 28 17:47:52 <ShadowJK> cars are special
Jun 28 17:47:59 <valdyn> RST38h: it can work perfectly fine
Jun 28 17:48:02 <RST38h> Doc: does the first answer say "no"?
Jun 28 17:48:10 <valdyn> RST38h: thats typically cars with window antennnae
Jun 28 17:48:29 <jacekowski> RST38h: works for me
Jun 28 17:48:31 <RST38h> javispedro: driver's side, n900 in your left pocket, external car antenna fully extended
Jun 28 17:48:40 <RST38h> javispedro: only then it works, not very well though
Jun 28 17:48:56 <jacekowski> javispedro: emm, my car can
Jun 28 17:49:22 <jacekowski> RST38h: external antenna doesn't help 
Jun 28 17:49:34 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: sorry?
Jun 28 17:49:52 <SpeedEvil> Optimal range is perhaps 5-6m
Jun 28 17:49:57 <javispedro> truth be said I've never tested n900 in driver's side..
Jun 28 17:50:02 <RST38h> Doc: i.e. is your QA about things one CANNOT do with N900? =)
Jun 28 17:50:14 <RST38h> Speed: Never works this far with n900
Jun 28 17:50:20 <RST38h> Speed:50cm is about the max range for me
Jun 28 17:50:30 <jacekowski> RST38h: range to what?
Jun 28 17:50:53 <ShadowJK> In my car, the external antenna can't see any signal at all from the N900. The radio isn't very well shielded though, so that's the signal path, direct to radio
Jun 28 17:50:56 <RST38h> jacekowski: range from n900 to an fm receiver
Jun 28 17:51:00 <ShadowJK> I put the N900 in the tray below the radio
Jun 28 17:51:06 <jacekowski> ShadowJK: exactly
Jun 28 17:51:07 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_FM_radio_transmitter#Typical_Range
Jun 28 17:51:15 <jacekowski> ShadowJK: metal roof shields antenna from n900 quite well
Jun 28 17:51:18 <valdyn> RST38h: you mean transciever
Jun 28 17:51:27 <valdyn> RST38h: err nm
Jun 28 17:51:30 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: my QA is about better schematics and about getting the most out of the precious chips you buy
Jun 28 17:51:33 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: That's basically the best use-case - to a good reciever with a proper antenna, set up in a field
Jun 28 17:51:43 <jacekowski> ShadowJK: radio is shielded quite well too
Jun 28 17:51:49 <RST38h> Speed: does not make me feel better
Jun 28 17:51:55 <SpeedEvil> With an empty spectrum
Jun 28 17:52:10 <SpeedEvil> In congested regions - it's not going to work at all.
Jun 28 17:52:12 <javispedro> at 50cm I get pure noise with n900 and a handheld received.
Jun 28 17:52:14 <jacekowski> RST38h: it's not for you to transmit to every car on motorway
Jun 28 17:52:16 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: works for me
Jun 28 17:52:19 <javispedro> *receiver.
Jun 28 17:52:25 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: i have it on lowest possible frequency
Jun 28 17:52:43 <rlinfati> Pirates_of_Caribbean.mp4, Rio.mp4, Tron_Legacy.mp4 on N950 via RDA :P
Jun 28 17:52:52 <ShadowJK> jacekowski, also start fmtx first, run fmboost (probably useless since 1.3), then connect charger while fmtx is running and playing. Seems to boost it a bit :-)
Jun 28 17:53:01 <javispedro> rlinfati, last years device =)
Jun 28 17:53:16 <jacekowski> ShadowJK: ekhm, you are teaching me what do with fmtx?
Jun 28 17:53:19 <rlinfati> C:\home\user\MyDocs\Movies 
Jun 28 17:53:25 <valdyn> ShadowJK: depends on your car, i would say the charger more often than not causes annoying interference
Jun 28 17:53:27 <ShadowJK> jacekowski, no I said what I'm doing :P
Jun 28 17:53:40 <MohammadAG> my N900's FMTX is actually quite good
Jun 28 17:53:42 <jacekowski> ShadowJK: are you using my modified fmtxd?
Jun 28 17:53:48 <ShadowJK> valdyn, it's a nokia DC-10 (or 11?), doesn't seem to cause any interference at all..
Jun 28 17:53:51 <ShadowJK> jacekowski, nope
Jun 28 17:53:59 <jacekowski> ShadowJK: you should
Jun 28 17:54:04 <jacekowski> ShadowJK: that boosts power a bit
Jun 28 17:54:05 <valdyn> ShadowJK: probably, i only know cheap car chargers
Jun 28 17:54:21 <jacekowski> ShadowJK: and does some other stuff as well
Jun 28 17:54:34 <jacekowski> ShadowJK: like it's not switching off/reducing power when you plug in usb to it
Jun 28 17:55:02 <javispedro> I have a chinese car GPS that also has an fmtx, and its range is probably in the kilometers. If I connect it I get not only crystal clear sound but also _noise on other frequencies_
Jun 28 17:55:05 <ShadowJK> that kernel "lock" they introduced in 1.3 prevents it from stepping down power if you turn on fmtx first, it seems
Jun 28 17:55:24 <jacekowski> ShadowJK: it doesn't
Jun 28 17:55:29 <jacekowski> ShadowJK: you can still do it via ioctls
Jun 28 17:55:37 <jacekowski> ShadowJK: and that's how fmtxd is doing it
Jun 28 17:55:53 <DocScrutinizer> you're aware the TX power reduction on charger plugin is basically nonsense as there's always a chance user plugs in a mere single ended USB cable
Jun 28 17:56:02 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: yeah
Jun 28 17:56:35 <RST38h> javispedro:just proves that chinese are practical
Jun 28 17:57:15 <RST38h> javispedro:and will end up owning the world outside of the courtroom =)
Jun 28 17:58:19 <jacekowski> tbh, there should be like 1MHz at low end of spectrum where you can transmit with bit more power
Jun 28 17:58:26 <jacekowski> and that should be used for all micro transmitters
Jun 28 17:58:40 <jacekowski> or even single frequency on very low end
Jun 28 18:08:07 <MohammadAG> so
Jun 28 18:08:15 <MohammadAG> anyone got tips on getting the public IP of a device?
Jun 28 18:08:45 <valdyn> MohammadAG: www.whatismyip.com
Jun 28 18:08:50 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: Turn it upside down, and look at the post-it-note
Jun 28 18:09:42 <javispedro> RST38h, indeed
Jun 28 18:12:52 <DocScrutinizer> valdyn: looks like a really rogue site
Jun 28 18:13:36 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: Go to wikipedia.
Jun 28 18:13:42 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: Don't login. click edit
Jun 28 18:13:46 <SpeedEvil> It tells you your IP
Jun 28 18:14:02 <valdyn> DocScrutinizer: a rogue site?
Jun 28 18:14:12 <valdyn> DocScrutinizer: youre joking right?
Jun 28 18:14:40 <DocScrutinizer> platered with popups and js crap, and maybe all other sorts of nasty beasts
Jun 28 18:15:08 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, valdyn something with wget/curl please
Jun 28 18:15:12 <valdyn> DocScrutinizer: ok, I wouldnt know, i filter ads and similar, but its not a rogue site anyway
Jun 28 18:15:34 <valdyn> MohammadAG: that site has instructions
Jun 28 18:15:49 <valdyn> MohammadAG: below your ip "Automation Rules"
Jun 28 18:16:38 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: (echo -ne '\x00\x01\x00\x08'; \     echo -n "$session"; \     echo -ne '\x00\x03\x00\x04\x00\x00\x00\x00'\    ) \    | netcat -w ${t_listen} -u ${stunserver} ${port} \    | od -w4 -t u1 -j 28 -N 4 -A n \    | sed 's/^  *//g;s/\  */./g'
Jun 28 18:16:54 <valdyn> MohammadAG: http://automation.whatismyip.com/n09230945.asp gives me *only* the ip
Jun 28 18:17:00 * javispedro notes DocScrutinizer should remember we are talking about messybox here
Jun 28 18:17:01 <MohammadAG> can't find them
Jun 28 18:17:09 <DocScrutinizer> session=`tr -d -c [:alnum:] < /dev/urandom | dd  bs=16 count=1 2>/dev/null`
Jun 28 18:17:21 <DocScrutinizer> *cough*
Jun 28 18:18:52 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: http://www.heise.de/netze/tools/whois-abfrage
Jun 28 18:20:21 <DocScrutinizer> http://youripis.org/
Jun 28 18:21:23 <DocScrutinizer> realy lean: http://monip.net/
Jun 28 18:22:17 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, no dice on busybox
Jun 28 18:22:46 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, sure
Jun 28 18:23:09 <javispedro> MohammadAG, either way:  don't. it will be hidden behind a thousand layers of nat
Jun 28 18:23:22 <javispedro> ipv4s are not that cheap these days to assign one to each RDA device
Jun 28 18:24:01 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: you bet on that
Jun 28 18:24:20 <javispedro> maybe ipv6 =9
Jun 28 18:24:20 <DocScrutinizer> but he pierced a hole into the NAT aiui
Jun 28 18:25:15 <javispedro> then ssh into your computer :P
Jun 28 18:27:45 <javispedro> google has closed the paid apps section in the taiwanese android market because of a new state law that mandates consumers have 7-days to return goods
Jun 28 18:27:52 <javispedro> fun.
Jun 28 18:28:19 <SpeedEvil> Great!
Jun 28 18:29:20 <ShadowJK> it's 14 days in EU
Jun 28 18:30:08 <alterego> Heh
Jun 28 18:30:56 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: I don't think that applies to software.
Jun 28 18:31:02 <cehteh> ever tried to return a burger to Mc Donalds 14days after buying? :)
Jun 28 18:31:18 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: Also - if they don't comply with the distance selling rules it may be considerably longer - IIRC 6 months 14 days
Jun 28 18:31:29 <SpeedEvil> cehteh: Only online purchases of non-perishable goods.
Jun 28 18:33:01 <ShadowJK> It was (is?) actually better in finland before EU's imposed DSR
Jun 28 18:33:23 <SpeedEvil> ?
Jun 28 18:33:39 <ruskie> last I checked the EU wide minimal is 14 days for distance selling
Jun 28 18:33:48 <ShadowJK> after the harmonized EU rules, buyer pays return shipping
Jun 28 18:34:01 <ruskie> though iirc the UK has it set to longer than that
Jun 28 18:34:58 <GeneralAntilles> rm_work, ping?
Jun 28 18:35:04 <GeneralAntilles> (or rm_you)
Jun 28 18:35:19 <rm_work> GeneralAntilles: pong
Jun 28 18:35:25 <rm_work> low latency today
Jun 28 18:35:28 <rm_work> though not for long
Jun 28 18:35:38 <rm_work> whats up?
Jun 28 18:35:41 <GeneralAntilles> rm_work, you do much photography? fiferboy and I are talking over working on a simple photography suite for MeeGo.
Jun 28 18:35:42 <ruskie> hmm nice... managed to flash a fresh kernel now with hotspot stuff
Jun 28 18:35:49 <GeneralAntilles> (as part of the N950 pitch, of course)
Jun 28 18:35:51 <rm_work> GeneralAntilles: I've done some
Jun 28 18:36:03 <rm_work> took Digital Photo 101 in college, got 110% <_<
Jun 28 18:36:07 <GeneralAntilles> Light meter, GPX track recorder, that sort of thing.
Jun 28 18:36:16 <rm_work> hrm, not much experience with light meter
Jun 28 18:36:21 <GeneralAntilles> Low programming effort, reasonably high reward.
Jun 28 18:36:25 <rm_work> I know basics like f/stop and such
Jun 28 18:36:58 <alterego> GeneralAntilles: if you need a dev i'd be interested ;)
Jun 28 18:37:12 <rm_work> i mean, there's a pretty good list of all the relevant things in any photo's EXIF data
Jun 28 18:37:20 <rm_work> and all of them are researchable on wikipedia :P
Jun 28 18:37:22 <GeneralAntilles> alterego, ah, good.
Jun 28 18:37:56 <rm_work> but yeah it is more helpful to have a dev who is already intimately familiar
Jun 28 18:38:16 <rm_work> if alterego is a photography geek, pick him :P
Jun 28 18:38:21 <rm_work> otherwise, i could probably help
Jun 28 18:39:00 <alterego> Well I have the geolocation experience and I like taking pics and videos, but I wouldn't say I'm extremely knowledgable about the subject.
Jun 28 18:39:14 <GeneralAntilles> rm_work, well, probably 4 or 5 small applications.
Jun 28 18:39:31 <alterego> light meter is fairly simple.
Jun 28 18:39:32 <GeneralAntilles> So I doubt we're going to be full-up on talented people.
Jun 28 18:39:41 <rm_work> lol k
Jun 28 18:41:05 <alterego> Is it me or am I the only one that hasn't wrote an essay for the ddp submission?
Jun 28 18:41:28 <GeneralAntilles> Mine's fairly short.
Jun 28 18:41:49 <alterego> I just wrote: I want to update my apps, write some new ones, and continue my meego platform work.
Jun 28 18:42:45 <alterego> Oh and that sexual favours aren*mt out-of-the-question
Jun 28 18:43:02 <GeneralAntilles> 250 words or so.
Jun 28 18:43:08 <alterego> Anyway, we'll all know in a couple of days or so.
Jun 28 18:43:15 <alterego> Was there a word limit?
Jun 28 18:43:19 <MohammadAG> alterego, 3 lines
Jun 28 18:43:19 <MohammadAG> I'll be writing a brightness applet for the N950 in a bit
Jun 28 18:43:29 <MohammadAG> well, once I find the status menu API
Jun 28 18:43:32 <alterego> MohammadAG: cool
Jun 28 18:43:53 <alterego> I want to write a widget plugin setup for the lock screen ..
Jun 28 18:46:11 * javispedro 's "essay" is 293 words
Jun 28 18:46:19 <MohammadAG> alterego, I can't find the status menu API thoguh :p
Jun 28 18:46:20 <MohammadAG> though
Jun 28 18:46:43 <alterego> Hurp
Jun 28 18:46:54 <alterego> Well, we use the same thing in meego so ...
Jun 28 18:46:56 <javispedro> MohammadAG, mcompositor draws it, and it is opensource.
Jun 28 18:47:04 <javispedro> and alterego is right =)
Jun 28 18:47:21 * javispedro away to commute
Jun 28 18:47:54 <rm_work> wooo competing brightness applets :P
Jun 28 18:47:55 <MohammadAG> alterego, MTF?
Jun 28 18:48:01 <rm_work> bbl, meetings T_T
Jun 28 18:48:09 <rm_work> GeneralAntilles: let me know
Jun 28 18:48:15 * rm_work runs to a meeting 
Jun 28 18:48:23 <alterego> MohammadAG: I don't know the area very well, I thought it was related to sysui
Jun 28 18:50:09 <alterego> Hmm, I could use one of my N900s as an internet connected security camera
Jun 28 18:50:30 * alterego contemplates an easy pan and tilt asembly.
Jun 28 18:52:14 <GeneralAntilles> alterego, hrm, need a name for the suite.
Jun 28 18:52:36 <alterego> Hmm, SnapSuite?
Jun 28 18:52:41 * alterego chuckles
Jun 28 18:53:57 <hiemanshu> gah, stupid question, but where do I change the version in Qt Creator to change the package version?
Jun 28 18:55:30 <GeneralAntilles> PhotoGo
Jun 28 18:56:02 <hiemanshu> I use google translate to name my apps :P
Jun 28 18:56:16 * ruskie wonders if there will be a fully rooted n9 with all the fancy stuff that one can do on the n900 eventually...
Jun 28 18:56:20 <GeneralAntilles> SnapGo
Jun 28 18:56:33 <alterego> GoSnapMee
Jun 28 18:56:43 <kerio> ruskie: i'd assume i can buy a n9 and install xterm or something
Jun 28 18:57:12 <ruskie> that still doesn't say anything about rooting it
Jun 28 18:57:17 <piggz> why in theme customiser is the option disabled to 'not draw icon backgrounds'...is it because of a different hildon-home from cssu?
Jun 28 18:57:58 <alterego> GeneralAntilles: what about "Aperture"?
Jun 28 18:58:11 * GeneralAntilles hides from the Apple thugs.
Jun 28 18:58:19 <alterego> Oh, is that used?
Jun 28 18:58:26 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, that's Apple's photo manager.
Jun 28 18:58:32 <alterego> Lame ..
Jun 28 18:58:53 <ruskie> do you plan on selling it in the appstore?
Jun 28 18:59:00 <ruskie> then I don't really see much of a problem
Jun 28 18:59:08 <ruskie> as in the apple app store that is
Jun 28 18:59:12 <alterego> "Hershel"?
Jun 28 18:59:14 <alterego> :)
Jun 28 18:59:22 <alterego> I like to name my software after pioneers
Jun 28 18:59:25 <RST38h> Snapster!
Jun 28 18:59:40 <owenh> Anyone know how to get sound in a debian chroot on an n810?
Jun 28 18:59:41 <RST38h> Snappleste^H^Hsorry
Jun 28 18:59:55 <alterego> Snaptacular?
Jun 28 19:00:18 <RST38h> Snappilicious
Jun 28 19:00:22 <ruskie> Snappy
Jun 28 19:00:51 <RST38h> Photoshitster
Jun 28 19:01:19 <alterego> Flasher?
Jun 28 19:01:20 <GeneralAntilles> Photohipster
Jun 28 19:01:22 * alterego chuckles
Jun 28 19:01:26 <RST38h> Gan:+!
Jun 28 19:01:41 <RST38h> Lumiere?
Jun 28 19:01:42 <fiferboy> I liked Photohipster before it was cool
Jun 28 19:01:53 <GeneralAntilles> Should appeal to the Finns.
Jun 28 19:01:56 <alterego> "Tripod"
Jun 28 19:02:00 <RST38h> fiferboy: Jesus liked you before you were hip
Jun 28 19:02:05 <RST38h> Trippster!
Jun 28 19:03:52 <fiferboy> RST38h: I was never hip
Jun 28 19:04:40 <RST38h> This means Jesus still likes you, doesn't it?
Jun 28 19:05:29 <fiferboy> RST38h: True, maybe I will be hip sometime in the future
Jun 28 19:05:50 <DocScrutinizer> WTF? essay for DDP?
Jun 28 19:06:23 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: GeneralAntilles: what are you talking about?
Jun 28 19:07:06 <DocScrutinizer> two days ago it's been a project homepage beauty contest, now we need an essay to apply for devel-devs?
Jun 28 19:07:15 <RST38h> fiferboy: Better start discussing it with the Tentacled One, for a smooth transition!
Jun 28 19:07:17 <alterego> Apparently, :D
Jun 28 19:07:32 <alterego> GeneralAntilles: Asparagus?
Jun 28 19:07:33 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer, putting together a website for a photography suite for MeeGo.
Jun 28 19:07:49 <RST38h> General: Is there a photography suite?
Jun 28 19:07:52 <DocScrutinizer> I hope you keep the copyright, as this sounds like the start of facebook-2.0 to me
Jun 28 19:07:55 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, plans only.
Jun 28 19:08:21 <RST38h> General: Then why the web site? :)
Jun 28 19:08:33 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, for the N950 proposal, of course. :P
Jun 28 19:08:33 <alterego> I still like flasher
Jun 28 19:08:44 <RST38h> General: rotfl
Jun 28 19:08:44 <alterego> Or "Exposure"
Jun 28 19:08:56 <DocScrutinizer> GeneralAntilles: >><alterego> Is it me or am I the only one that hasn't wrote an essay for the ddp submission?
Jun 28 19:08:56 <RST38h> alterego: iExposure!
Jun 28 19:09:01 <GeneralAntilles> Also, because it's a good way to kick-start myself into making the website for myself that I've been procrastinating on for years.
Jun 28 19:09:19 <RST38h> General: bad, bad idea
Jun 28 19:09:31 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: I've had a few people show me their submissions and they put my 3 lines to shame :P
Jun 28 19:09:51 <alterego> fockus?
Jun 28 19:10:07 <RST38h> hocus!
Jun 28 19:10:31 <alterego> YetAnotherPhotographyPackage
Jun 28 19:10:31 <RST38h> hockus, actually
Jun 28 19:10:33 <alterego> YAPP
Jun 28 19:10:41 <DocScrutinizer> well, I don't give a damn f* about whether they accept my application or not. I'm just offering to help on a subject I'm not really excited or involved
Jun 28 19:10:46 <derf> I know if I had to read those submissions, I'd award bonus points for brevity.
Jun 28 19:10:48 <RST38h> onSteroids - YAPPSTER
Jun 28 19:11:03 * RST38h has got brevity there
Jun 28 19:11:11 <DocScrutinizer> but gonestly, this application contest starts to become ridiculous
Jun 28 19:11:19 <DocScrutinizer> honestly even
Jun 28 19:11:26 <RST38h> only due to the lackofresponse
Jun 28 19:11:48 <fiferboy> GeneralAntilles: Tagline - "Expose yourself!"
Jun 28 19:11:59 <derf> More ridiculous than "Karma doesn't matter. Don't worry about karma. Oh, we're giving devices to people with at least X karma"?
Jun 28 19:12:13 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Jun 28 19:12:19 <RST38h> BTW
Jun 28 19:12:28 <SpeedEvil> Well - if you said 'karma matters' - imagine the drama beforehand
Jun 28 19:12:30 <RST38h> derf: Got an Android 2.3 device and DDMS?
Jun 28 19:12:42 <SpeedEvil> So there was basically no choice.
Jun 28 19:12:45 <alterego> tbh, the N900 DDP was a fucking farce :P
Jun 28 19:12:48 <derf> I think my Android device is only 2.2, still.
Jun 28 19:13:00 <RST38h> derf: May not work =(
Jun 28 19:13:04 <alterego> I ended up buying an N900 full price, taking out a second contract just to get one.
Jun 28 19:13:23 <alterego> GeneralAntilles: Dorkroom?
Jun 28 19:13:27 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Jun 28 19:13:29 <alterego> GeneralAntilles: I mean, DarkRoom?
Jun 28 19:13:32 <GeneralAntilles> MeeGoDorkRoom
Jun 28 19:13:39 <derf> alterego: So did I, except without the contract.
Jun 28 19:13:44 <fiferboy> MeeDarkGoRoom?
Jun 28 19:13:59 <alterego> GoDarkMeeRoom
Jun 28 19:14:08 <derf> Because I didn't actually need a phone, I just needed a device to test code on.
Jun 28 19:14:21 <alterego> MacroStudio?
Jun 28 19:14:29 <SpeedEvil> I ended up buying one too.
Jun 28 19:14:38 <SpeedEvil> Though I managed to get some ridiculous amount off.
Jun 28 19:14:40 <fiferboy> StudioSuite
Jun 28 19:14:45 <SpeedEvil> I think I ended up paying 40%.
Jun 28 19:14:59 <RST38h> Solution or PhotoSolution
Jun 28 19:15:07 <SpeedEvil> Counting all of the discounts and rebates, and cashback due to testing programs.
Jun 28 19:15:22 <DocScrutinizer> photons
Jun 28 19:16:05 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, I don't like to think of it as a contest
Jun 28 19:16:05 <MohammadAG> doesn't work with the community concept
Jun 28 19:16:21 * RST38h agrees with Mohammad on this
Jun 28 19:17:02 <SpeedEvil> Unless you're giving devices out like candy - it pretty much needs to be.
Jun 28 19:17:05 <alterego> I would actually honestly prefer not to get a device, if there were 250 better applications.
Jun 28 19:17:07 <DocScrutinizer> in the end it *is* a contest, and it seems the rules are moving target
Jun 28 19:17:14 <SpeedEvil> Problem is that some people will take the device, and do nothing with it.
Jun 28 19:17:19 <alterego> And Quim is very pragmatic, so I trust his judgement.
Jun 28 19:17:22 <derf> DocScrutinizer: That's life, I suppose.
Jun 28 19:17:25 <SpeedEvil> And how to find that is hard.
Jun 28 19:18:21 <DocScrutinizer> problem is most people are eager to receive and *keep* a device
Jun 28 19:18:38 <alterego> Yes
Jun 28 19:18:52 <alterego> I'm sure if I don't get one from the DDP I can procure one by another means.
Jun 28 19:19:00 <ds3> is this for the N950?
Jun 28 19:19:01 <alterego> I heard there's a Qt Ambassador programme ..
Jun 28 19:19:07 <DocScrutinizer> and Quim did no good job in telling this might actually work
Jun 28 19:19:42 <ruskie> nokia just needs to actually sell the n950
Jun 28 19:19:59 <alterego> Neah
Jun 28 19:20:06 <alterego> The N950 is even more out-of-date than the N9
Jun 28 19:20:15 <alterego> And the N9 will sell well, I think it will sell extremely well
Jun 28 19:20:30 <DocScrutinizer> ruskie: indeed, or at least tell they'll do. And make damn sure they want N950 back after 6 weeks
Jun 28 19:21:08 <DocScrutinizer> would reduce the amount of "it's free, it's cool, and chances are better than on lottery" applications drastically
Jun 28 19:21:25 <alterego> Seriously, when the day comes up to give it back for an N9 or keep it, I'm getting an N9 ..
Jun 28 19:21:46 <alterego> I have an N900 with a keyboard, the N9 will make a great keyboardless primary device.
Jun 28 19:22:02 <SpeedEvil> alterego: Or a bluetooth keyboard. :)
Jun 28 19:22:03 <alterego> And the N900 will stay with me, as a light SSH terminal when I need it, or when I want to write essays on the move ..
Jun 28 19:22:07 <DocScrutinizer> probably you're right on that
Jun 28 19:22:12 <alterego> SpeedEvil: yup, I've got one of those too.
Jun 28 19:22:35 <ruskie> https://www.alwaysinnovating.com/store/product.php?productid=17&cat=1&page=1 <-- I'm gonna get myself one of these for a bt keyboard
Jun 28 19:22:54 <alterego> I got a BT keyboard for 15 GBP (~30 USD) the other day.
Jun 28 19:23:09 <alterego> Works great, it's light, compact and charges via mini usb
Jun 28 19:23:33 <SpeedEvil> mini usb?
Jun 28 19:23:38 <alterego> That's the keyboard I use with the exo
Jun 28 19:23:40 <DocScrutinizer> the OS clearly isn't tailored for a N950 class of device, and the c-ts of N950 makes it less attractive than N900 if you want that class anyway
Jun 28 19:23:48 <alterego> SpeedEvil: you know, the connector the 770 had :P
Jun 28 19:23:53 <alterego> And the N800 iirc
Jun 28 19:23:55 <SpeedEvil> ah
Jun 28 19:24:10 <DocScrutinizer> if you want the OS (i.e. harmattan meego) then N9 is the better device for sure
Jun 28 19:24:41 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: well, there's the other side, will the N950 ever get official images in line with the N9?
Jun 28 19:24:45 <ruskie> I should just get a second n900
Jun 28 19:24:45 <alterego> I doubt it ..
Jun 28 19:25:06 <DocScrutinizer> N950 would be my dream device with fremantle and a r-ts, not with meego-harmattan and c-ts
Jun 28 19:25:10 <ds3> but the N950 is a better replacement for the N900 hw if you are going to muck with it
Jun 28 19:25:41 <alterego> ds3: maybe
Jun 28 19:25:48 <ds3> the unknown seems to be - how is the N950 going to be sold... can anyone give $$$ and get one?
Jun 28 19:25:58 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: exactly. N950 is a dead platform right now
Jun 28 19:26:02 <alterego> I have a few N900s plenty to mod, and the N900 is far from being redundant for me ..
Jun 28 19:26:22 <ds3> alterego: the microsim elimates the N9 before it is even considered
Jun 28 19:26:41 <alterego> ds3: I don't see why that is a problem.
Jun 28 19:26:47 <alterego> ds3: can you not get microsims?
Jun 28 19:27:07 <ds3> alterego: the only way I can get a microsim is to cut my sim but then I can't use it again in my N900
Jun 28 19:27:46 <Atarii> you can use an adapter
Jun 28 19:27:50 <alterego> ds3: I think you probably can
Jun 28 19:27:54 <gri> why would you exchange the sim all the time?
Jun 28 19:28:03 <alterego> ds3: if you keep the other half and slot it in after the actual sim part ;)
Jun 28 19:28:11 <alterego> gri: battery going flat?
Jun 28 19:28:18 <ds3> cuz phone plan pricing is messed up
Jun 28 19:28:29 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: I got a really precious SIM from 1998 which is still of the cloneable type, I'd never let it expire to go for replacement, nor would I want to change my number for N9
Jun 28 19:28:41 <gri> alterego: An usb adapter helps for that also
Jun 28 19:28:57 <ds3> I can't combine 2 accounts with the same carrier w/o increasing my overall bill but at least 50%
Jun 28 19:29:18 <alterego> gri: what?
Jun 28 19:29:24 <alterego> A USB adapter for what?
Jun 28 19:29:50 <gri> alterego: For loading the flat battery if you're not in a discotheque or something like that
Jun 28 19:29:59 <ds3> you just cannot get a unlimited 3G enabled service with voice for under $35/month
Jun 28 19:30:11 <alterego> I was right, http://developer.qt.nokia.com/forums/viewthread/6992
Jun 28 19:30:18 <alterego> Qt Ambassador N950 programme ..
Jun 28 19:31:02 <DocScrutinizer> LOL
Jun 28 19:31:04 <RST38h> alterego: Ambassa-what???
Jun 28 19:31:20 <alterego> I'm suprised this got 0 coverage
Jun 28 19:31:27 <alterego> I got told by a friend in Nokia about it
Jun 28 19:31:33 <alterego> Just did a quick google and there you go.
Jun 28 19:31:41 <alterego> How come no one picked up on this before me?!
Jun 28 19:31:42 <RST38h> So what is it, N950s for bloggers?
Jun 28 19:32:10 <alterego> RST38h: A Qt Ambassador is a Qt FOSS coder that has proven to be helpful to the commmunity
Jun 28 19:32:31 <alterego> It sounds (from that thread) that their applications are similar to ours, it's an app store filler programme.
Jun 28 19:33:28 <alterego> Also, btw, Nokia do _not_ want the N950 in bloggers hands ;)
Jun 28 19:34:30 <RST38h> Mhm
Jun 28 19:36:14 <frals> uh
Jun 28 19:36:21 <frals> "Should ‘Qt Ambassadors’ get limited edition ‘Nokia N950 phone’"
Jun 28 19:36:30 <frals> i missed the post saying they are getting it?
Jun 28 19:37:10 <alterego> Read the one that says they should check their email
Jun 28 19:37:13 <alterego> And the n the ones after it saytalking about the form they're filling it ..
Jun 28 19:40:09 <DocScrutinizer> and receiving confirmation on July 6
Jun 28 19:40:32 <alterego> A week wednesday aye
Jun 28 19:40:37 <DocScrutinizer> damn, never knew I need to become a Qt Ambassador X-P
Jun 28 19:40:41 <DocScrutinizer> pffff
Jun 28 19:40:53 <alterego> The fact it's been kept so quiet, makes me want to become one
Jun 28 19:40:58 <alterego> Well, it makes me want to join Qt
Jun 28 19:41:11 <alterego> I spoke to loads of them in SF, they were all so nice.
Jun 28 19:42:15 <alterego> "Collectors will probably call the N9 the best pure Nokia phone of all time." - He's not wrong ..
Jun 28 19:42:16 <DocScrutinizer> judging by the length of that thread I guess there were probably an amazing 30 Ambassadors that applied. Then OTOH you dunno how many develdevs they will hand out to those Ambassadors in the end
Jun 28 19:42:46 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: actually, those 30 are just the people that didn't read their email or care to enquire further in the forum
Jun 28 19:42:55 <alterego> Maybe there's more info in mls
Jun 28 19:43:07 <alterego> And in my experience, most people just fill in the forms and send them off.
Jun 28 19:43:11 <alterego> What's there to talk about really?
Jun 28 19:43:44 <DocScrutinizer> indeed, and what's interesting in Qt Ambassadors in the end?
Jun 28 19:44:14 <alterego> Not sure what you mean there
Jun 28 19:44:50 <DocScrutinizer> it's just a joke they are a completely segregate group also developing apps for harmattan now
Jun 28 19:44:51 <alterego> You mean, why are they giving out devkits to Qt Ambassadors?
Jun 28 19:45:06 <alterego> Well, I think you'll find there is a lot of cross-over
Jun 28 19:45:28 <alterego> The Qt area is mainly focused around Symbian and MeeGo though
Jun 28 19:45:49 <DocScrutinizer> I bet I'm going to see a lot of redundancy
Jun 28 19:46:24 <alterego> I'm starting to think I might not unbox the N950 and keep it in an airtight room ;)
Jun 28 19:46:38 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Jun 28 19:47:15 <alterego> "My Precious!"
Jun 28 19:47:24 <alterego> That would make a good video
Jun 28 19:47:41 <alterego> "The Lord of the NITs"
Jun 28 19:47:54 <DocScrutinizer> rotfl
Jun 28 19:48:48 <alterego> Or "The Finlander"
Jun 28 19:48:58 <alterego> "There can be only one! (N950 owner)"
Jun 28 19:49:12 <alterego> I think I like that one even more :D
Jun 28 19:49:16 * DocScrutinizer giggles
Jun 28 19:49:19 * alterego is thinking of all sorts of short films.
Jun 28 19:50:14 <hiemanshu> alterego: "Dead or Alive" its funny if you get the phun :P
Jun 28 19:50:15 <DocScrutinizer> yeah - smash the opponent's N950, take the junk as spareparts for your own
Jun 28 19:50:23 <alterego> hiemanshu: heh ;)
Jun 28 19:50:54 <hiemanshu> there is also "The attack of the WPs"
Jun 28 19:51:00 <alterego> Hah
Jun 28 19:51:18 <alterego> "Episode 3: Revenge of the MeeGo"
Jun 28 19:51:22 <DocScrutinizer> tbh I think N950 is too rare to get momentum as a real collector's item
Jun 28 19:51:42 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: but it would be nice to have the full NIT range!
Jun 28 19:51:48 <alterego> I literally have every one released.
Jun 28 19:51:54 <DocScrutinizer> I have here 2 prototype boards of Openmoko GTA02 Diversity
Jun 28 19:51:54 <alterego> 770, N800, N810, N900
Jun 28 19:52:01 <alterego> I need an N950 and an N9 in my life!
Jun 28 19:52:01 * hiemanshu only owns a N900
Jun 28 19:52:15 <DocScrutinizer> don't think anybody is interested in them at all
Jun 28 19:52:18 <alterego> Just so I can take a picture of them all together.
Jun 28 19:52:27 <alterego> Sure, but it's a legac
Jun 28 19:52:29 * SpeedEvil owns a n900 and 3310.
Jun 28 19:52:30 <DocScrutinizer> gta03 even
Jun 28 19:52:30 <alterego> ~legacy
Jun 28 19:52:31 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, legacy is industry-ese for "crappy old stuff that we hate and that's why we upgraded in the first place but we can't seem to rid of at all and so now we have to support both (the incomprehensible new stuff *and* the crappy old stuff)."  --Mark Minasi
Jun 28 19:52:42 <alterego> Hahahah
Jun 28 19:52:46 <alterego> That is quite fitting ..
Jun 28 19:53:36 <hiemanshu> "The N9 - Walking tall" :P
Jun 28 19:54:36 <DocScrutinizer> now I misread that as "dead man walking"
Jun 28 19:54:53 <hiemanshu> DocScrutinizer: its the same :P
Jun 28 19:55:09 <hiemanshu> more like "The Dead Man - Walking tall" :P
Jun 28 19:56:26 <alterego> I think I can see now, how Twitter can quite easily become your life.
Jun 28 19:56:31 <alterego> It's not as intrusive as facebook.
Jun 28 19:56:45 <alterego> But it's even more social, I guess, in some ways.
Jun 28 20:08:12 <MohammadAG> alterego, probably because you mostly follow people you don't know IRL, but you don't add people you don't know on fb
Jun 28 20:43:25 <rm_work> GeneralAntilles: SnapGo sounds good if the suite is oriented towards TAKING the pictures, PhotoGo seems more like the overall process
Jun 28 20:43:53 <rm_work> GoDark -- A Complete Darkroom on the Go"?
Jun 28 20:43:59 <rm_work> lol
Jun 28 20:44:58 <alterego> Hah
Jun 28 20:45:06 <alterego> I like DarkRoom
Jun 28 20:45:09 <alterego> Drop the Go ..
Jun 28 20:45:12 <rm_work> lol
Jun 28 20:45:19 <rm_work> well, DarkRoom is just.... darkroom
Jun 28 20:45:23 <rm_work> not exactly creative
Jun 28 20:45:28 <alterego> Don't want get into a bloody MeeGo naming convention cascade.
Jun 28 20:45:34 <rm_work> then again neither is slapping "Go" on the end of every MeeGo package
Jun 28 20:45:39 <rm_work> lol yeah
Jun 28 20:45:41 <alterego> Exactly :P
Jun 28 20:45:50 <alterego> DorkRoom would be better
Jun 28 20:45:53 <rm_work> like the "Maemo-Barcode" issue
Jun 28 20:45:59 <alterego> But they'd probably think it was an e comic reader
Jun 28 20:46:14 <SpeedEvil> It's as bad as (qt|cute|q|)*
Jun 28 20:46:21 <rm_work> lol
Jun 28 20:46:33 <SpeedEvil> WTF as a user would I care what toolkit the app is made with you idiot.
Jun 28 20:46:39 <rm_work> first time I heard Qt pronounced as "Cute" was when i was staying with jott in Berlin :P
Jun 28 20:47:15 <rm_work> i'd apparently been saying it wrong for like four years
Jun 28 20:47:32 <alterego> Heh
Jun 28 20:47:46 <rm_work> always just said "Q. T."
Jun 28 20:47:48 <alterego> It is a common mistake
Jun 28 20:47:59 <alterego> cutie? you mean :P
Jun 28 20:48:11 <rm_work> i know almost no one in the US who pronounces it "Cute"
Jun 28 20:48:20 <rm_work> i think maybe it's only really known that way in europe? :P
Jun 28 20:48:27 <rm_work> or else i just have a very limited social circle
Jun 28 20:48:27 <alterego> Yeah, but you even pronounce "Nokia" wrong ..
Jun 28 20:48:31 <rm_work> lol truth
Jun 28 20:48:42 <rm_work> which one is right again?
Jun 28 20:48:47 <rm_work> noKIA, or NOkia?
Jun 28 20:48:55 <alterego> NOkia
Jun 28 20:48:56 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: alterego: The meego.com programme should get confirmation by 1st July ;-)
Jun 28 20:49:06 <alterego> Jaffa: thanks :)
Jun 28 20:49:13 <Jaffa> Knock-ear
Jun 28 20:49:21 <alterego> Jaffa: I'd heard the same anyway
Jun 28 20:49:30 <rm_work> and is it "KNOW-kia" or "KNOCK-ia"? 
Jun 28 20:49:32 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: thanks
Jun 28 20:49:34 <alterego> rm_work: what Jaffa said, I'm rubbish at phonetics :P
Jun 28 20:49:38 <rm_work> lol
Jun 28 20:49:39 <Jaffa> Not, "Noh key a"
Jun 28 20:49:42 <rm_work> ear?
Jun 28 20:49:44 <rm_work> lol
Jun 28 20:49:50 <alterego> eeeaaarrrr
Jun 28 20:49:51 <Jaffa> rm_work: Well, 'ia'
Jun 28 20:49:57 <Jaffa> As in Kia cars
Jun 28 20:50:02 <rm_work> now you're a southerner in the US
Jun 28 20:50:06 <rm_work> Nokier
Jun 28 20:50:08 <alterego> nok ia
Jun 28 20:50:10 <alterego> not no kia
Jun 28 20:50:20 <Jaffa> rm_work: Yes, that's it. Knockier. As in more knocky than the others.
Jun 28 20:50:25 <rm_work> :P
Jun 28 20:50:26 <DocScrutinizer> funny enough in german knock-ear makes me answer "good night Jaffa !"
Jun 28 20:50:28 <rm_work> imagine a southern drawl
Jun 28 20:50:29 <alterego> Hah
Jun 28 20:50:37 <rm_work> from a redneck
Jun 28 20:50:42 <Jaffa> Where knocky rhymes with cocky
Jun 28 20:50:52 <alterego> Guten Noch ia
Jun 28 20:51:05 <rm_work> ah yeah
Jun 28 20:51:08 <alterego> Rockia
Jun 28 20:51:08 <rm_work> Noch or Nach?
Jun 28 20:51:12 * alterego trademarks
Jun 28 20:51:13 <rm_work> lol
Jun 28 20:51:19 <DocScrutinizer> "ich hau mich dann ma auf's Ohr"
Jun 28 20:51:40 <DocScrutinizer> colloq: hit the sack
Jun 28 20:51:55 <DocScrutinizer> knock ear
Jun 28 20:52:16 <MoonTiger> anybody can give some advice on making a QMaemo5ValueButton / QMaemo5ListPickSelector / QStandardItemModel work? it all seems to work except no data shows up in the list when activated :|
Jun 28 20:52:58 <rm_work> in that sentence i manage to only know "ich mich dann auf's Ohr" T_T
Jun 28 20:54:56 <rm_work> this is right? http://inogolo.com/audio/Nokia_5361.mp3
Jun 28 20:55:22 <rm_work> still sounds like he's saying "No Kia" which jaffa said was wrong?
Jun 28 20:55:25 <DocScrutinizer> hau -> knock
Jun 28 20:55:47 <rm_work> what's "ma"? flavor?
Jun 28 20:56:05 <DocScrutinizer> einmal, ""filler""
Jun 28 20:56:24 <rm_work> yeah
Jun 28 20:56:29 <rm_work> flavor/filler
Jun 28 20:56:51 <rm_work> learning that one was interesting
Jun 28 20:57:02 <Jaffa> rm_work: Who's that?
Jun 28 20:57:06 <rm_work> our teacher was having a hard time explaining how we know when we're supposed to use it :P
Jun 28 20:57:06 <MohammadAG> why waste lines of channel logs when you're gonna be deciding how to spell Microsoft soon :p
Jun 28 20:57:11 <rm_work> Jaffa: no idea, googled for it
Jun 28 20:57:19 <rm_work> rofl Mo
Jun 28 20:57:23 <rm_work> *rofl MohammadAG 
Jun 28 20:57:31 <DocScrutinizer> "I gonna knock my ear"
Jun 28 20:58:01 <MohammadAG> knock ear means go to bed?
Jun 28 20:58:08 <DocScrutinizer> yup
Jun 28 20:58:24 <MohammadAG> DIE Microsoft devices means the microsoft devices
Jun 28 20:58:29 <MohammadAG> pfft, bad things are good in german
Jun 28 20:58:40 <DocScrutinizer> or "listen to the mattress"
Jun 28 20:59:04 * MohammadAG ponders making a finger friendly car UI
Jun 28 20:59:23 <MohammadAG> something to control the mediaplayer, FM transmitter, wifi, 3G etc
Jun 28 20:59:43 <MohammadAG> maybe with 6 favorite contacts
Jun 28 21:00:20 <rcg1> MohammadAG: just a question.. how much time do you invest daily (average) on development stuff like for maemo, meego and the like?
Jun 28 21:00:49 <MohammadAG> rcg1, depends on the day
Jun 28 21:01:07 <MohammadAG> if I'm home, it's that
Jun 28 21:01:14 <MohammadAG> when I'm out, you don't see me anywhere :P
Jun 28 21:01:46 <rcg1> well a rough average would do.. lets say if you take your "common" week into account what average would that make for the day
Jun 28 21:01:47 <rcg1> ?
Jun 28 21:02:01 <rcg1> hehe.. good to hear
Jun 28 21:02:09 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: mad useful, brilliant idea
Jun 28 21:02:47 <MohammadAG> rcg1, plus #maemo wasn't always about giving, I learned quite a lot here
Jun 28 21:04:21 <MohammadAG> I wish someone would improve my System* classes
Jun 28 21:04:27 <rcg1> MohammadAG: it's just you seem to be all-around when it gets to development stuff.. so i wonder if you are just that damn brilliant and do things in near zero time or invest so much of your spare time
Jun 28 21:04:34 <javispedro> I wish someone would improve my System.
Jun 28 21:04:40 <javispedro> evening folks.
Jun 28 21:04:56 <DocScrutinizer> hi javispedro 
Jun 28 21:05:08 <Jaffa> Hmm, sshed into the qmu image. There's a file: /home/user/"what.me.worry". 5MB. Seems to be binary. Any ideas?
Jun 28 21:05:30 <DocScrutinizer> rcg1: MohammadAG does a lot of maintenance, not all of that he completely developed from scratch on his own
Jun 28 21:05:40 <MohammadAG> I finished Sociality in 3 days, of non-non-stop work
Jun 28 21:05:40 <MohammadAG> double nons intended
Jun 28 21:05:40 <MohammadAG> point is, if I have the time, I can help :)
Jun 28 21:05:40 <MohammadAG> javispedro, I'll do that, will you do my classes? :P
Jun 28 21:05:41 <MohammadAG> they only need MeeGo + Harmattan support!
Jun 28 21:06:26 <rm_work> lol yeah i wish i had the kind of time i used to :(
Jun 28 21:06:27 <javispedro> like if I knew any System* classes other than BillGates'
Jun 28 21:06:34 <rcg1> DocScrutinizer: ic.. but he still is way damn more productive than me.. at least thats the feeling i have ;)
Jun 28 21:06:40 <DocScrutinizer> rcg1: and he usually properly attributes the contributors
Jun 28 21:06:51 <rm_work> back when i started here i was a student so i had NOTHING during summers, and lots of time during the year still anyway (plus holidays)
Jun 28 21:07:01 <Jaffa> file on my box says: ".what.me.worry": ELF 32-bit LSB core file ARM, version 1 (SYSV), SVR4-style, from '/opt/Attitude/bin/Attitude'
Jun 28 21:07:05 <rm_work> now i get two weeks off per year and work 45h/week >_>
Jun 28 21:07:05 <rcg1> hence i just asked.. cause one starts to woner whether oneself is just that busy/slow/lazy whatsoever
Jun 28 21:07:06 <Jaffa> How odd
Jun 28 21:07:18 <rcg1> no offense.. just respect for the work you do MohammadAG ;)
Jun 28 21:07:43 <DocScrutinizer> rcg1: he's still way more productive and agile than many of us
Jun 28 21:07:51 <rm_work> yep :P
Jun 28 21:07:53 <DocScrutinizer> rcg1: he's young ;-)
Jun 28 21:07:55 <rcg1> heh ic
Jun 28 21:08:12 <MohammadAG> I learned from all of you :P
Jun 28 21:08:12 <rcg1> DocScrutinizer now that makes me feel damn old again
Jun 28 21:08:17 <MohammadAG> first time I was here I didn't know what ls did
Jun 28 21:08:17 <rcg1> just what i wanted to avoid
Jun 28 21:08:18 <rcg1> ;P
Jun 28 21:08:51 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: kudos, you did a cs study in less than the regular time then
Jun 28 21:08:52 <rcg1> MohammadAG: talk about making me feel way damn older n slower
Jun 28 21:08:52 <MohammadAG> I'll disappear on 10/11/12 /7
Jun 28 21:09:14 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, heh :D
Jun 28 21:09:55 <HRH_H_Crab> big up all of you coders.
Jun 28 21:10:00 <HRH_H_Crab> you all rock.
Jun 28 21:10:31 <rm_work> lcuk is one guy who had very little time and STILL got tons done, not sure how he managed :P
Jun 28 21:10:35 <rm_work> i need to figure out his secret
Jun 28 21:10:48 <rcg1> well, nevermind.. was just curious ;)
Jun 28 21:10:52 <lcuk> one secret?
Jun 28 21:10:56 <lcuk> I have many.
Jun 28 21:10:56 <rm_work> lol
Jun 28 21:11:02 <rm_work> lcuk: you just think differently :P
Jun 28 21:11:16 <MohammadAG> lcuk's awesome
Jun 28 21:11:23 <lcuk> no I just learn from things and try and try again until I get it right
Jun 28 21:11:30 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: I *mist* have a ton. One secret isn't enough for this sort of awesomeness
Jun 28 21:11:34 <DocScrutinizer> must*
Jun 28 21:11:40 <lcuk> the 10k vb projects show that ;)
Jun 28 21:11:42 <DocScrutinizer> damn
Jun 28 21:11:52 <rm_work> lol
Jun 28 21:11:53 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: You *must* have a ton. One secret isn't enough for this sort of awesomeness
Jun 28 21:11:56 <MohammadAG> I remember when he first PM'd me and told me to recompile liqbase for the N900
Jun 28 21:12:09 <MohammadAG> I have to be honest, I kinda wtf'd, didn't know how to do that :p
Jun 28 21:12:15 <rm_work> lol
Jun 28 21:12:37 <rm_work> i remember when i was trying to convince him to open-source it :P
Jun 28 21:12:42 <MohammadAG> Debian packaging, only learned cause qwerty12 mentioned debian/rules and dpkg-buildpackage in once sentence
Jun 28 21:12:48 <MohammadAG> learned it*
Jun 28 21:13:01 * javispedro feels old
Jun 28 21:13:10 <MohammadAG> C/C++, couldn't read it till September last year
Jun 28 21:13:10 <javispedro> I think I can see my hair falling
Jun 28 21:13:14 <MohammadAG> open source what? :P
Jun 28 21:13:43 <lcuk> rm_work, still not sure about that one
Jun 28 21:13:57 <MoonTiger> lcuk, are you into qt nowadays too?
Jun 28 21:13:58 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: cut it short! ;-P
Jun 28 21:14:02 <rcg1> heh MohammadAG so your a damn fast learner.. took me much longer to grasp that stuff
Jun 28 21:14:21 <rm_work> lcuk: lol
Jun 28 21:14:33 <lcuk> MoonTiger, i would personally not like to be because it is harder than my code
Jun 28 21:14:40 <rm_work> lcuk: like i said, you can always re-license new versions :P or dual license
Jun 28 21:14:48 <MohammadAG> rcg1, alterego and Venemo helped a lot
Jun 28 21:14:49 <rcg1> for quite a while ebuild were all that i knew
Jun 28 21:14:51 <lcuk> i am trying to create professional apps from some of the liqbase stuff
Jun 28 21:14:54 <MoonTiger> lcuk, so it's written in c/gtk?
Jun 28 21:15:08 <MohammadAG> liqbase doesn't use Gtk, it uses magic
Jun 28 21:15:12 <lcuk> MoonTiger, no, liqbase is written in c/liq*
Jun 28 21:15:13 <MoonTiger> ahhhhhh
Jun 28 21:15:21 * MoonTiger is not worthy
Jun 28 21:15:22 <rm_work> lcuk: which is fine :P you maintain copyright, you can relicense it however you want whenever you want
Jun 28 21:15:27 * rcg1 neither
Jun 28 21:15:31 <javispedro> omg so Google is now doing their own facebook
Jun 28 21:15:44 <rm_work> lol
Jun 28 21:15:46 <javispedro> "emphasis on privacy "
Jun 28 21:15:52 <lcuk> rm_work, if only life was so simple
Jun 28 21:15:55 <RST38h> javispedro: surprise? :)
Jun 28 21:15:56 <javispedro> omg where do I sign up and give all my personal info.
Jun 28 21:16:00 <rm_work> "Hi Facebook, we're Google. You may have heard of us."
Jun 28 21:16:10 <javispedro> what, it's google.
Jun 28 21:16:14 <MoonTiger> javispedro, its called gmail?
Jun 28 21:16:14 <javispedro> I do not need to give my personal info.
Jun 28 21:16:26 <rm_work> yeah, they already have it... good point :P
Jun 28 21:16:32 <javispedro> rm_work++
Jun 28 21:16:42 <rm_work> lol
Jun 28 21:16:44 <MohammadAG> Yeah, cause Google Buzz totally overtook twitter
Jun 28 21:16:47 <javispedro> RST38h: tbh I thought they would relaunch orkut or similar, not try to actually seriously compete.
Jun 28 21:16:54 <MoonTiger> heh it was a surprising failure
Jun 28 21:17:05 <MohammadAG> and Google Wave
Jun 28 21:17:18 <rm_work> Google's Facebook -- no need to sign up, you already have an account, and all your personal info and likes/dislikes are already listed, they even created groups for every possibl thing and put you in the ones you wanted to be in anyway
Jun 28 21:17:21 <rm_work> you just have to log in :P
Jun 28 21:17:29 <RST38h> javispedro: In 10 years from now, "social scientists" will defend dissertations about how current social networks bubble has been caused by humans' instinct of crowding together when threatened 
Jun 28 21:18:01 <RST38h> javispedro: If there will be any social scientists left to write those dissertations, of course =)
Jun 28 21:18:04 <lcuk> RST38h, I thought it was just boredom
Jun 28 21:18:08 <MohammadAG> they should call it GooBook
Jun 28 21:18:27 * lcuk will write a book soon
Jun 28 21:18:27 <rm_work> MohammadAG: that sounds like an Adult Social Network <_<
Jun 28 21:18:30 <RST38h> lcuk: That too, but popular entertainment used to take care of that
Jun 28 21:18:31 <javispedro> I thinks it's still all about ego.
Jun 28 21:18:42 <lcuk> RST38h, too many channels
Jun 28 21:18:47 <lcuk> simplify
Jun 28 21:18:55 <MohammadAG> rm_work, thanks for saying that, I imagined things I shouldn't have
Jun 28 21:19:01 <rm_work> MohammadAG: welcome :P
Jun 28 21:19:12 <RST38h> lcuk: No, this illogical desire to stick together, in formerly individualistic societies, should be explained differently =)
Jun 28 21:19:51 <lcuk> RST38h, my sister saw baby pictures on the internet before I had a chance to phone her and tell her baby was here
Jun 28 21:20:03 <RST38h> lcuk: is it a good thing?
Jun 28 21:20:09 <lcuk> i think so!
Jun 28 21:20:26 <MohammadAG> OMG the Atrix was unlocked
Jun 28 21:20:27 <RST38h> lcuk: how many other people will see those pictures? how many of these people you do not know very well?
Jun 28 21:20:49 <MohammadAG> RST38h, why does that matter?
Jun 28 21:21:13 <lcuk> RST38h, idk 
Jun 28 21:21:29 <RST38h> Mohammad: 'cause some of these people may well be screwed up pretty badly?
Jun 28 21:22:07 <rm_work> because maybe some of them now have an insatiable desire to COOK AND EAT lcuk's baby!?
Jun 28 21:22:22 <DocScrutinizer> still doesn't matter until you google for lcuk 's addr
Jun 28 21:22:26 <rm_work> probably at least one of them <_< the internet is a big and scary place
Jun 28 21:22:37 <lcuk> thanks \o
Jun 28 21:22:41 <MohammadAG> RST38h, why would you have screwed up people on facebook?
Jun 28 21:22:53 <RST38h> rm_work: or, to stray away from the standard pedophilia-related discourse, report lcuk to the feds for spreading child pornograpy
Jun 28 21:23:05 <rm_work> lolwut
Jun 28 21:23:13 <rm_work> since when have baby pictures been considered CP? >_>
Jun 28 21:23:15 <RST38h> Mohammad: Got 'em everywhere, why not Facebook?
Jun 28 21:23:42 <RST38h> rm_work: ah, anything can be considered CP nowadays,published for whatever reason
Jun 28 21:24:12 <DocScrutinizer> rm_work: since that's USA
Jun 28 21:24:44 <rm_work> >_
Jun 28 21:24:48 <rm_work> <_<
Jun 28 21:24:55 <RST38h> rm_work: freaking anime is now being considered CP, as well as stupid highschoolers exposing themselves to each other over MMS
Jun 28 21:25:02 <DocScrutinizer> rm_work: ...where 10 year old boys get a prison sentence for sexual harassment becuase they kissed a classmate
Jun 28 21:25:18 <RST38h> Doc: No, just expulsion from school afaik
Jun 28 21:25:20 <rm_work> DocScrutinizer: lolwut >_>
Jun 28 21:25:26 <rm_work> RST38h: lolwut <_<
Jun 28 21:25:30 <RST38h> Doc: Same for bringing in a toy pistol
Jun 28 21:26:07 <rm_work> RST38h: though some anime is a bit sketchy when it comes to age... but in Japan the legal age is 13 I think (nationally, though higher depending on prefecture)
Jun 28 21:26:19 <RST38h> rm_work: Other scenario: some creative troll steals lcuk's identity and calls SWAT team to his address
Jun 28 21:26:25 <rm_work> lol
Jun 28 21:26:47 <rm_work> yeah but that can happen in a lot of ways that are entirely unrelated to facebook
Jun 28 21:26:57 <rm_work> i was thinking particularly in relation to the posting of baby pics
Jun 28 21:26:58 <RST38h> rm_work: Oh, in Japan it is even funnier than that, with male-on-malenot being considered pornography (hence yaoi)
Jun 28 21:27:06 <rm_work> lol
Jun 28 21:27:09 <RST38h> rm_work: Of course it can
Jun 28 21:27:26 <RST38h> rm_work: But the more you expose your identity on the net, the more risk you are taking
Jun 28 21:27:35 <rm_work> yes
Jun 28 21:27:39 <rm_work> that's true IRL too
Jun 28 21:27:49 <RST38h> rm_work: Which makes me sigh every time I hear another rosy news about Facebook et al
Jun 28 21:27:53 <rm_work> the more information you give someone IRL, the easier it would be for them to social engineer their way into things
Jun 28 21:27:54 <rm_work> etc
Jun 28 21:28:11 <RST38h> rm_work: IRL there is a physical limit on how many people know about you :)
Jun 28 21:28:20 <rm_work> culminating in, you hand someone your passport and SSN card
Jun 28 21:28:26 <rm_work> and then they photocopy it
Jun 28 21:28:28 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: you bet me to it
Jun 28 21:28:31 <rm_work> and mail it around
Jun 28 21:28:48 <rm_work> yeah, it's a scale issue, i'll admit
Jun 28 21:28:51 <RST38h> rm_work: In meatspace, there are physical limits on how widely you can normally expose yourself
Jun 28 21:28:53 <rm_work> but it's not a NEW problem
Jun 28 21:28:59 <RST38h> rm_work: correct
Jun 28 21:29:07 <rm_work> that's all i'm saying
Jun 28 21:29:18 <rm_work> if you're dumb IRL, you'll be dumb online too
Jun 28 21:29:20 <rm_work> with your identity
Jun 28 21:29:21 <RST38h> rm_work: just aggravated by the spread of soc networks and the latest social shifts
Jun 28 21:29:21 <DocScrutinizer> most people massively underestimate: size of internet. Speed of internet
Jun 28 21:29:30 <rm_work> it's just people for some reason don't even stop to think
Jun 28 21:29:32 <DocScrutinizer> longevity of info in internet
Jun 28 21:29:37 <rm_work> "would i hand this to a stranger on a street corner"
Jun 28 21:29:44 <rm_work> if you wouldn't, you shouldn't put it online >_>
Jun 28 21:30:31 <RST38h> rm_work: case in point: latest deanonymization of the lulzsec members
Jun 28 21:30:48 <rm_work> actually, i'm finding the whole drama around the Youtube Nyancat video to be quite educational
Jun 28 21:31:01 <RST38h> rm_work: (yes, liars, virgins, pervs, and best of all, perfectly willing to rat each other to the FBI :))
Jun 28 21:31:12 <BCMM> there is drama around nyan cat?
Jun 28 21:31:15 <rm_work> this guy is getting *death threats* because someone pretended to be him and filed a takedown to youtube
Jun 28 21:31:16 <RST38h> what video?
Jun 28 21:31:20 <alterego> what yt video?
Jun 28 21:32:07 <rm_work> it's back up finally, it appears
Jun 28 21:32:08 <rm_work> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH2-TGUlwu4
Jun 28 21:32:10 <rm_work> but
Jun 28 21:32:28 <rm_work> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH2-TGUlwu4
Jun 28 21:32:35 <rm_work> err
Jun 28 21:32:38 <rm_work> http://www.prguitarman.com/index.php?id=369
Jun 28 21:34:27 <rm_work> but, apparently you can just file a takedown notice with whatever name you want on any video you want, and youtube will take down the video and post the name there as the reason
Jun 28 21:34:37 <rm_work> and that generates some SERIOUS bad press if it's a popular video
Jun 28 21:34:55 <BCMM> rm_work: it's not youtube's fault, really
Jun 28 21:34:58 <BCMM> it's the damn DMCA
Jun 28 21:35:01 <rm_work> yeah
Jun 28 21:35:18 <DocScrutinizer> WTF! is that a japanese ringtone or what?
Jun 28 21:35:23 <BCMM> if they say "get lost, troll", and they're wrong, they're liable to a stupid extent
Jun 28 21:35:26 <rm_work> that's fairly true, though there's something to be said for zero research
Jun 28 21:35:29 <RST38h> Looks like some 8bit shit
Jun 28 21:35:32 <rm_work> it is
Jun 28 21:35:35 <rm_work> some meme
Jun 28 21:35:40 <rm_work> anyway, gotta run to a meeting
Jun 28 21:35:42 <BCMM> and if they just remove stuff for no good reason, then meh
Jun 28 21:35:43 * rm_work runs to a meeting
Jun 28 21:35:44 <DocScrutinizer> http://r33b.net
Jun 28 21:35:46 * RST38h asleep
Jun 28 21:35:57 <BCMM> and there's no real consequence for putting in fraudelent takedown requests
Jun 28 21:37:01 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: it was a japanese song, and an animated GIF. somebody decided they go well together.
Jun 28 21:37:27 <BCMM> it doesn't make a great deal of sense, but it is weirdly mezmerising
Jun 28 21:38:14 <DocScrutinizer> I watched it to the end, to make sure there's no big easteregg in it at any point in time
Jun 28 21:38:36 <DocScrutinizer> still don't feel as good as I did 10 min ago :-P
Jun 28 21:43:10 <BCMM> and not because it's oddly compelling or anything.
Jun 28 21:43:28 <DocScrutinizer> I should bookmark this in case I ever need arguments why internet should go down
Jun 28 21:43:45 <BCMM> you may prefer http://nyan.cat/
Jun 28 21:44:39 <BCMM> non-stop. also, easter eggs for listening for long enough; if it's going to make you feel better
Jun 28 21:44:49 <DocScrutinizer> it's not only the vid clip, it's the comments coming in in x/second rate, and the hitcounter >20E6
Jun 28 21:45:19 <BCMM> i wouldn't worry about the hitcount; the majority probably weren't voluntary
Jun 28 21:45:22 <javispedro> anyone knows a good and portable svg rasterizer? Seems that all of them suck
Jun 28 21:45:47 <DocScrutinizer> hmm
Jun 28 21:46:02 <BCMM> javispedro: firefox (/ducks)
Jun 28 21:46:02 <DocScrutinizer> is there any except the gimp one anyway?
Jun 28 21:46:14 <BCMM> (in my defence, you didn't say "lightweight")
Jun 28 21:46:22 <javispedro> BCMM: have to agree, the best quality one I've found. sadly, I cannot rip it (I said portable =) )
Jun 28 21:46:41 <DocScrutinizer> ooh
Jun 28 21:47:29 <javispedro> oh
Jun 28 21:47:35 <javispedro> "mozilla is using cairo"
Jun 28 21:47:39 <BCMM> javispedro: any idea what ksvg uses as a backend?
Jun 28 21:47:41 <javispedro> why I didn't thought about that
Jun 28 21:47:42 <BCMM> oh, cool
Jun 28 21:48:00 <DocScrutinizer> thought you look for a $anypic->svg converter
Jun 28 21:48:14 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: that's computer sciency hard.
Jun 28 21:48:15 <BCMM> that's the opposite of a rasteriser
Jun 28 21:48:26 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Jun 28 21:48:30 <DocScrutinizer> noticed that
Jun 28 21:48:32 <javispedro> I tried gnome's rsvg = sucks. Imagemagick = sucks. 
Jun 28 21:48:54 <javispedro> apache batik = Java (GiBs only to rasterize a svg???) 
Jun 28 21:49:42 <DocScrutinizer> seems there must be a reason svg isn't exactly popular
Jun 28 21:50:13 <BCMM> imho, imagemagick is great for being pretty comprehensive in format support; but sucks quite often
Jun 28 21:50:17 <javispedro> I also think qt includes one svg rasterizer
Jun 28 21:50:23 <javispedro> dunno which one, and where.
Jun 28 21:50:26 <MohammadAG> QtSvg, deprecated soon
Jun 28 21:50:33 <javispedro> because it sucks too?
Jun 28 21:50:50 <MohammadAG> that's what I gathered yes
Jun 28 21:50:50 <MohammadAG> they prefer the one in QWebKit
Jun 28 21:50:56 <javispedro> hm.
Jun 28 21:51:03 <javispedro> I could rip that one..
Jun 28 21:51:14 <DocScrutinizer> why rip anything?
Jun 28 21:51:16 <BCMM> i mean, it's better than your application not being able to open, say, PDFs, but it will literally spawn a ghostscript process, with potentially poor default options, to do the work
Jun 28 21:51:24 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: headless machine
Jun 28 21:51:34 <DocScrutinizer> mhm
Jun 28 21:52:24 <javispedro> also, add AntiGrain Geometry to the list, going to try it now
Jun 28 21:52:41 <alterego> Oh, I think the N9 has flash
Jun 28 21:52:49 <Jaffa> javispedro: Did you find out how to launch applauncherd?
Jun 28 21:52:49 <alterego> MohammadAG: do you still have access?
Jun 28 21:53:01 <MohammadAG> alterego,, Dual LED too
Jun 28 21:53:09 <javispedro> Jaffa: didn't had time to really play with it
Jun 28 21:53:09 <alterego> No, Adobe Flash :P
Jun 28 21:53:10 <MohammadAG> yes, I know what you meant :p
Jun 28 21:53:23 <alterego> http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2011/06/respect.html?showComment=1309244161165#c8807273851680035486
Jun 28 21:53:33 <alterego> He says "Fash is supported in fennec"
Jun 28 21:53:37 <alterego> I'm sure that is a typo ;)
Jun 28 21:53:41 <javispedro> Jaffa: I know how to launch it thought. Just run "applauncherd" as user ;). But then a different error appears.
Jun 28 21:53:59 <Jaffa> javispedro: BTW, we're using Apache Batik to render SVGs to PNGs in our (Java) web app; works very well :)
Jun 28 21:54:10 <javispedro> heh, that's my problem.
Jun 28 21:54:10 <kerio> alterego: futuristic android shell?
Jun 28 21:54:17 <alterego> Heh
Jun 28 21:54:32 <javispedro> Jaffa: I am surprised it's not a 100% solved problem by these days. Thought this would take a few minutes.
Jun 28 21:54:44 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: somebody claimed you probably could throw in arbitrary OMAP flashlib
Jun 28 21:54:58 <Jaffa> javispedro: Yeah; I was pleasantly surprised how easy it was since Batik was already on our classpath; but it looked nightmareish until I found that.
Jun 28 21:55:09 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: only if it's hard fp ..
Jun 28 21:55:17 <DocScrutinizer> hmmm
Jun 28 21:55:23 <MohammadAG> alterego, 39 minutes and I will
Jun 28 21:55:26 <MohammadAG> want ssh access?
Jun 28 21:55:35 <Jaffa> javispedro: Running applauncherd as 'developer' doesn't error.
Jun 28 21:55:39 <alterego> MohammadAG: neah, I'm probably gonna be in bed by then, if not then sure
Jun 28 21:55:42 <DocScrutinizer> still fail to wrap my head around that softfp/hardfp thing each time
Jun 28 21:55:46 <alterego> See if you can find libflash though ;)
Jun 28 21:55:46 <javispedro> Jaffa: run whoami. Make surprised face.
Jun 28 21:56:04 <Jaffa> Oooh, it's logging stuff as I start Clock
Jun 28 21:56:10 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: just floating point being passed in registers rather than on the heap mostly.
Jun 28 21:56:49 <DocScrutinizer> and if you'd do the fp math in a statically linked lib or even inline code or functon calls?
Jun 28 21:56:52 <Jaffa> javispedro: WTF?!
Jun 28 21:58:12 <javispedro> Jaffa: ask Madde guys :D
Jun 28 21:58:41 <DocScrutinizer> I'm not sure the 'leaked' flashplayer plugin from TI(?) was linked against any particular shared lib
Jun 28 21:58:44 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: I don't know :P
Jun 28 21:58:59 <alterego> But any function calls involving fp will break
Jun 28 21:59:13 <alterego> And any non hardfp binary just wont run, or get linked because the headers are all wrong.
Jun 28 21:59:17 <javispedro> it's not very hard to wrap.
Jun 28 21:59:32 <DocScrutinizer> only if they leave your namespace defined and available at build time
Jun 28 22:00:36 <DocScrutinizer> and I'm not sure about a plugin really is a binary in the sense of header matching etc
Jun 28 22:01:07 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: it's ELF
Jun 28 22:01:11 <alterego> That stuff is sensitive :P
Jun 28 22:01:15 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, k
Jun 28 22:01:52 <javispedro> as I was saying, it's not hard to wrap.
Jun 28 22:01:53 <DocScrutinizer> would it need any *fp header if the binary does no fp math at all?
Jun 28 22:02:01 <javispedro> yep
Jun 28 22:02:07 <DocScrutinizer> meh
Jun 28 22:02:23 <DocScrutinizer> incredible shit
Jun 28 22:02:28 <javispedro> well, you know
Jun 28 22:02:34 <javispedro> there's this header in ELF files that specifies the ABI
Jun 28 22:02:41 <javispedro> they're not going to do three thousand special cases
Jun 28 22:02:47 <javispedro> specially when this is performance sensitive stuff.
Jun 28 22:03:11 <javispedro> and FP in ARM has traditionally been awfully messy.
Jun 28 22:03:21 <DocScrutinizer> I'd expect a list of requirements, and a matcher algo in loader
Jun 28 22:03:31 <alterego> It would be feasible to write a program that can translate softfloat to hardfloat
Jun 28 22:03:38 <javispedro> a matcher!! would you like some heuristic algorithms with that?
Jun 28 22:04:03 <javispedro> ;P
Jun 28 22:04:19 <alterego> javispedro: sure, but it's messy because of all the different kinds of FPUs they've used over the years
Jun 28 22:04:21 <DocScrutinizer> not a thisishardfparma8thumb57littleendiannowgetthissucker header that has to match
Jun 28 22:04:30 <alterego> SoC integration can do this to a platform :)
Jun 28 22:05:26 <alterego> Anyway, so it looks like we my actually have flash,
Jun 28 22:05:33 <alterego> Unless fash is something else.
Jun 28 22:05:33 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: nah, more like some regex
Jun 28 22:05:43 <javispedro> alterego: who is the confident for that assertion?
Jun 28 22:05:54 <alterego> konttori
Jun 28 22:06:01 <alterego> http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2011/06/respect.html?showComment=1309244161165#c8807273851680035486
Jun 28 22:06:19 <javispedro> uuuuuuuuh
Jun 28 22:06:29 <javispedro> in fennec but not in default browser?
Jun 28 22:06:37 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Jun 28 22:06:59 <alterego> javispedro: he has a good point, about separating mobile browsing experience from desktop browsing experience.
Jun 28 22:07:02 <javispedro> that means they won't even bother to even talk to Adobe when sth happens.
Jun 28 22:07:16 <javispedro> alterego: no wonder, webkit is shitty, browsing experience is going to take a hit on the n9.
Jun 28 22:07:25 <alterego> We'll see
Jun 28 22:07:27 <javispedro> btw.
Jun 28 22:07:29 <javispedro> ~seen timeless
Jun 28 22:07:34 <alterego> It has tap to zoom so ...
Jun 28 22:07:42 <Jaffa> alterego: Could be Gnash or something in Fennec
Jun 28 22:07:46 <infobot> timeless <ad21c479@firefox/developer/timeless> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 13d 19h 24m 12s ago, saying: 'luke-jr: ipv6 irc?'.
Jun 28 22:07:51 <Jaffa> alterego: Or just a reuse of the Flash 9 plugin from the N900?
Jun 28 22:07:53 <alterego> Jaffa: possible, yes.
Jun 28 22:08:08 <alterego> Jaffa: no, hence the soft float vs hardfp argument
Jun 28 22:08:09 <DocScrutinizer> hmmm
Jun 28 22:08:13 * DocScrutinizer wonders
Jun 28 22:08:22 <DocScrutinizer> ~seen timeles*
Jun 28 22:08:24 <infobot> i haven't seen 'timeles*', DocScrutinizer
Jun 28 22:08:28 <DocScrutinizer> meh
Jun 28 22:08:37 <DocScrutinizer> infobot: learn!
Jun 28 22:08:47 <javispedro> he hasn't said a word since we (well, since most of us) found out about webkit in n9
Jun 28 22:09:22 <DocScrutinizer> is he still a nokian anyway?
Jun 28 22:09:24 <Jaffa> javispedro: Possibly worrying over whether he jumped from frying pan into the fire :-(
Jun 28 22:09:36 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: No, he's moved to Canada to work at another mobile company
Jun 28 22:09:46 <DocScrutinizer> thought as much
Jun 28 22:10:25 <javispedro> ah, didn't know.
Jun 28 22:12:15 <alterego> anyway g'night
Jun 28 22:12:20 <javispedro> gnite alterego!
Jun 28 22:13:02 <Jaffa> Where's the flash plaer.so on the N900?
Jun 28 22:13:09 <MohammadAG> alterego, stay up for 22 minutes!!! :P
Jun 28 22:13:52 <MohammadAG> javispedro, DocScrutinizer he's at RIM now
Jun 28 22:13:59 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Jun 28 22:14:02 <javispedro> Jaffa: /usr/lib/browser/plugins/libflashplayer.so
Jun 28 22:14:10 <MohammadAG> he already said that he won't be here after the conference :/
Jun 28 22:14:27 <javispedro> ah well :(
Jun 28 22:14:42 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: what's in 22min?
Jun 28 22:15:04 <javispedro> man, I should really have gone to the SF conf. It was probably the last...
Jun 28 22:15:07 <MohammadAG> RDA again
Jun 28 22:15:14 <DocScrutinizer> oh
Jun 28 22:15:18 <DocScrutinizer> well
Jun 28 22:15:37 <DocScrutinizer> there are still 18k lines to scrutinize
Jun 28 22:16:04 <MohammadAG> well you're Doc Scrutinizer :p
Jun 28 22:16:11 <DocScrutinizer> that's why
Jun 28 22:16:43 <DocScrutinizer> Doc! scrutinizer  - not Log scrutinizer
Jun 28 22:17:04 <Jaffa> javispedro: alterego: The following is empty in the qemu image: /usr/lib $ find . -name '*flash*'
Jun 28 22:17:32 <javispedro> MohammadAG will be able to check in RDA
Jun 28 22:17:43 <javispedro> hm
Jun 28 22:18:20 <DocScrutinizer> fenec, is that a MP pkg?
Jun 28 22:18:33 <javispedro> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=G92Ugk7c
Jun 28 22:18:39 <javispedro> no flash package in list provided by MohammadAG 
Jun 28 22:18:44 <MohammadAG> ping me in 17 minutes
Jun 28 22:18:55 <DocScrutinizer> *yawn*
Jun 28 22:19:05 <MohammadAG> I wonder what dpkg -r aegis* does
Jun 28 22:19:07 <DocScrutinizer> apt-get install fenec
Jun 28 22:19:18 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Jun 28 22:19:38 <DocScrutinizer> eat your brain I bet
Jun 28 22:19:58 <javispedro> it selfdestructs the device
Jun 28 22:20:28 <javispedro> then, it turns on the camera, and uses pictures of you to kickstart the google facebook network
Jun 28 22:21:54 <DocScrutinizer> not on RDA ;-)
Jun 28 22:22:07 <MohammadAG> it fires up my webcam then
Jun 28 22:22:36 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: ah, that's why there are so many Nokians on this googlefacebook thing
Jun 28 22:22:47 <DocScrutinizer> maybe the selfdestruct suffices to blow away trollop and his office?
Jun 28 22:23:12 <javispedro> talkinga bout elop, I bet you have seen his platforming game?
Jun 28 22:23:45 <javispedro> http://nokiagadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Elopgame.jpg
Jun 28 22:23:53 <javispedro> bestseller imho, hope to see it soon for n9.
Jun 28 22:24:41 <DocScrutinizer> GOLD
Jun 28 22:29:18 <javispedro> hmpf, the agg svg rasterizer is a joke.
Jun 28 22:29:42 <Jaffa> In the platform SDK, what's the command to start the UI?
Jun 28 22:29:45 <javispedro> (a pity, cause I like agg)
Jun 28 22:29:49 <javispedro> Jaffa: meego-sb-session start
Jun 28 22:30:29 <Jaffa> javispedro: ta
Jun 28 22:30:32 <DocScrutinizer> >> It was hard, to make this pass the OVI QA! I removed alot, to make Nokia happy... So there is no M$ text on this game, there is no iPhone level (for stupid people) and I removed all company names. But now it is there! 
Jun 28 22:31:16 <DocScrutinizer> rotfl
Jun 28 22:32:57 <DocScrutinizer> >> Version 1.0.0 first and last version... It failed 10 times on OVI QA, before Nokia accepted it! It is a stupid game, and will remain so :P
Jun 28 22:33:17 <javispedro> average ;)
Jun 28 22:33:58 <DocScrutinizer> I will buy it, just to support this dude
Jun 28 22:34:58 <DocScrutinizer> also if this is a winner, Ovi QA looks rather stupid
Jun 28 22:37:52 <Jaffa> Can sshd run inside scratchbox?
Jun 28 22:38:07 <javispedro> why??
Jun 28 22:39:29 <DocScrutinizer> why not??
Jun 28 22:40:08 <javispedro> you can open as many sbox sessions as you want, you can run X11 apps just by setting DISPLAY,..
Jun 28 22:40:29 <javispedro> sshd inside means you have to build it against "inside" headers and libraries
Jun 28 22:40:41 <javispedro> the only use I see is debugging sshd itself.
Jun 28 22:45:59 <javispedro> hm.. mozilla uses cairo for svgs outright, but it uses cairo only for actual rasterization, not parsing or anything else
Jun 28 22:46:04 <MohammadAG> so, who wants ssh?
Jun 28 22:46:29 <Kilroo> I think I have nearly entirely exhausted my patience.
Jun 28 22:54:34 <MohammadAG> grr
Jun 28 22:54:41 <MohammadAG> Imma murder the one who deleted the saved network
Jun 28 22:55:36 <javispedro> you sure they do not reboot the device from time to time?
Jun 28 22:56:54 <MohammadAG> no
Jun 28 22:57:14 <MohammadAG> they just don't reboot them that often
Jun 28 22:57:29 <MohammadAG> they do when there's a software update, or when one goes down
Jun 28 22:57:37 <MohammadAG> I bricked a 5800 once, it came back in 2 days
Jun 28 22:57:46 <MohammadAG> or was it an N97 mini
Jun 28 22:59:20 <MohammadAG> fucking piece of crap
Jun 28 22:59:31 <MohammadAG> someone deleted the RDA6 connection
Jun 28 22:59:32 <MohammadAG> there's no internet on the device
Jun 28 23:01:32 <javispedro> MohammadAG: clearly, someone didn't want you to continue your world domination plans
Jun 28 23:02:10 <MohammadAG> and the device is offline
Jun 28 23:02:13 <MohammadAG> :/
Jun 28 23:02:21 <MohammadAG> nvm it's back up
Jun 28 23:03:42 * Kilroo tries to decide whether it's worth a seventh attempt to share the n900 tmobile ipv6 beta connection with another device
Jun 28 23:09:11 <Jaffa> Someone said there was a replacement for run-standalone.sh...?
Jun 28 23:09:59 <Jaffa> Possibly javispedro 
Jun 28 23:10:04 <javispedro> meego-run
Jun 28 23:10:06 <Jaffa> `ys
Jun 28 23:10:08 <Jaffa> Ta
Jun 28 23:29:50 <rm_you> back
Jun 28 23:30:42 <javispedro> ok, so my only plan B is to build something using QtSvg and statically linked qt.
Jun 28 23:30:50 <javispedro> see, qt is useful for something.
Jun 28 23:34:48 <MohammadAG> no flash* in /usr/lib Jaffa / javispedro q
Jun 28 23:35:13 <Kilroo> Hm. My problem seems to be related to the fact that interface bnep0 does not exist.
Jun 28 23:35:22 <Kilroo> I wonder why it doesn't.
Jun 28 23:53:37 <ShadowJK> are you trying to share it over bluetooth? (bnep)
Jun 28 23:59:01 <Kilroo> Yes.
Jun 28 23:59:48 <Kilroo> wifi would theoretically be an option. USB is not, as I got bitten by the archos dying usb port.
Jun 29 00:00:53 <Kilroo> I think either I have two problems, or these are both symptoms of the same problem, but nothing I do on the n900 seems to result in the existence of a bnep0 device, and nothing I do on the archos seems to result in its marking the tethering connection as PAN instead of DUN.
Jun 29 00:52:20 * SpeedEvil realises the deadline is over.
Jun 29 00:52:47 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: yo
Jun 29 00:53:02 <SpeedEvil> So - no stress now - just waiting
Jun 29 00:53:16 <DocScrutinizer> :shrug:
Jun 29 00:53:58 * DocScrutinizer counts green flies on the wall - 1.. 2.. 3.. 4... 5..
Jun 29 00:57:44 <MohammadAG> so
Jun 29 00:57:56 <MohammadAG> what's the maximum value led_current can take?
Jun 29 00:58:02 <MohammadAG> for the RGB leds
Jun 29 01:00:28 <ShadowJK> 50
Jun 29 01:00:55 <DocScrutinizer> define "can"
Jun 29 01:01:06 <MohammadAG> ShadowJK, then why is it set to 2?
Jun 29 01:01:11 <DocScrutinizer> may? usually does?
Jun 29 01:01:19 <MohammadAG> Are you *sure* it's 500?
Jun 29 01:01:22 <MohammadAG> err, 50
Jun 29 01:01:35 <SpeedEvil> I wouldn't exceed the maximum that mce does by much
Jun 29 01:01:58 <SpeedEvil> For short pulses - 50% more may be OK
Jun 29 01:02:38 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, 50 sounds quite sane for a maximum, based on "unit=100uA" and the type of component
Jun 29 01:03:05 <MohammadAG> remember, RGB led, not kb led
Jun 29 01:03:19 <MohammadAG> RGB runs at 2 by default
Jun 29 01:03:27 <DocScrutinizer> as we don't know the datasheet or even name of the RGB LED
Jun 29 01:03:32 <MohammadAG> I just remember while porting Ubuntu, it was brighter
Jun 29 01:04:00 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: yes, as it's supposed to be "always on" for breathing light
Jun 29 01:04:13 <DocScrutinizer> so they lowered the current considerably
Jun 29 01:05:12 <DocScrutinizer> My EE guts say such type of component should be fine with 5mA
Jun 29 01:05:55 <MohammadAG> well, 5 seems right, it didn't implode
Jun 29 01:05:59 <DocScrutinizer> *might* even be fine with 50mA, or it burns out in no time - I'll not gonna test itXP
Jun 29 01:06:23 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: NB 5 means 0.5mA
Jun 29 01:07:30 <DocScrutinizer> which for sure is no max current for an LED of any type I've ever seen
Jun 29 01:08:05 <SpeedEvil> I've seen 5mA in some of the tinier LEDs
Jun 29 01:08:08 <DocScrutinizer> it's just a fine setting for a power-modest standby indicator
Jun 29 01:08:31 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: [2011-06-29 03:02:15] <DocScrutinizer> My EE guts say such type of component should be fine with 5mA
Jun 29 01:09:51 <SpeedEvil> yeah
Jun 29 01:10:16 <DocScrutinizer> so ShadowJK 's 50 were just to the point
Jun 29 01:15:34 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, oh, so 50 in led_current means 5mA, interesting
Jun 29 01:15:58 <DocScrutinizer> iirc yes
Jun 29 01:18:02 <ShadowJK> 50mA (500) sounds a bit high
Jun 29 01:18:18 <DocScrutinizer> indeed
Jun 29 01:18:26 <DocScrutinizer> nobody suggested that
Jun 29 01:18:52 <DocScrutinizer> and iirc it doesn't even work, as that's a uint8
Jun 29 01:19:09 <MohammadAG> meh, abill_uk would suggest it
Jun 29 01:19:10 <ShadowJK> don't we run the "flashlight" at 50? :)
Jun 29 01:19:35 <MohammadAG> the flashlight is 5mA?
Jun 29 01:19:45 <DocScrutinizer> flashlight is a completely different driver, no?
Jun 29 01:20:11 <DocScrutinizer> with unrelated semantics of the values you pass to it
Jun 29 01:20:31 <ShadowJK> I vaguely remember someone saying 50mA would be good for flashlight
Jun 29 01:20:44 <DocScrutinizer> the 0.1mA units stem from lp5521/3 driver
Jun 29 01:21:28 <SpeedEvil> 50mA is the nominal flashlight current
Jun 29 01:21:31 <SpeedEvil> IIRC
Jun 29 01:21:31 <MohammadAG> anyway, enough LED burning for me
Jun 29 01:21:34 <MohammadAG> night
Jun 29 01:21:35 <DocScrutinizer> those 50mA are from the driver source for the flashlight driver driver
Jun 29 01:21:37 <SpeedEvil> These are very different LEDs though
Jun 29 01:21:42 <SpeedEvil> Night!
Jun 29 01:21:51 * SpeedEvil hopes for nice email to MohammadAG in the morning.
Jun 29 01:21:53 <FIQ|n900> the n900fly application seems as an interesting way to hurt your device
Jun 29 01:22:00 <FIQ|n900> according to its' description
Jun 29 01:22:07 <SpeedEvil> Well - yes.
Jun 29 01:22:24 * FIQ|n900 don't get it
Jun 29 01:22:30 <FIQ|n900> why would anyone do that?
Jun 29 01:22:44 <SpeedEvil> It may not actually be a serious app.
Jun 29 01:22:55 <DocScrutinizer> it's supposed to be in your pocket while flying ;-D
Jun 29 01:23:04 <FIQ|n900> of course it isn't
Jun 29 01:23:23 <FIQ|n900> but has it got any downloads, and has it actually been used? :p
Jun 29 01:23:55 <DocScrutinizer> isn't there even a public highscore list?
Jun 29 01:24:06 <FIQ|n900> wat
Jun 29 01:24:19 <FIQ|n900> whatever
Jun 29 01:24:27 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Jun 29 01:29:50 <biston> hey guys, there are 4 packages for nano on the maemo repos, nano nano-tiny nano-2.0.7 nano-opt. which is the best?
Jun 29 01:52:17 <jonwil> hmmm, I wonder if anyone actually cares about my hald-addon-bme work...
Jun 29 01:53:37 <jonwil> or what else I could work on reverse engineering or making copies of...
Jun 29 01:53:53 <jonwil> I mean clones of
Jun 29 02:04:45 <Ken-Young> I am having trouble with the Maemo 5 autobuilder.   I have a new dependency in a package of mine - I now need hildon-fm-2.   If I put that dependency in my configure.ac file, everything works.   I can configure and build.   I put hildon-fm-2 in my control file too.   But the autobuilder dies when it does not find that dependency.   DOes anyone know what I must put in my control file to get hildon-fm-2 ?
Jun 29 02:06:03 <Sc0rpius> well
Jun 29 02:06:08 <Sc0rpius> where do you get that hildon-fm-2?
Jun 29 02:06:31 <Sc0rpius> because it's not in my repositories
Jun 29 02:06:41 <Sc0rpius> and maybe autobuilder can't find it either?
Jun 29 02:06:46 <Ken-Young> Sc0rpius, Well it appears to exist in scratchbox.
Jun 29 02:07:13 <Sc0rpius> [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > dpkg -l | grep hildon-fm-2
Jun 29 02:07:13 <Sc0rpius> [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > 
Jun 29 02:07:15 <Sc0rpius> not in mine
Jun 29 02:07:33 <Sc0rpius> [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > apt-cache search hildon-fm-2
Jun 29 02:07:34 <Sc0rpius> [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > 
Jun 29 02:07:34 <Ken-Young> Sc0rpius, If I put it in the configure.ac, do autoconf and automake, then the configure script looks for that package, and finds it.
Jun 29 02:07:44 <Sc0rpius> maybe it's just ARMEL lemme see
Jun 29 02:08:57 <Ken-Young> libhildonfm2 seems to be present.
Jun 29 02:09:53 <Ken-Young> But if I specify hildonfm2, rather than hildon-fm-2, in the configure.ac file, then the configure script fails to resolve that dependency.
Jun 29 02:10:04 <Sc0rpius> [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > apt-cache search hildon-fm-2
Jun 29 02:10:05 <Sc0rpius> [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > 
Jun 29 02:10:06 <Sc0rpius> err
Jun 29 02:10:11 <Sc0rpius> [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > ls /usr/lib/libhildonfm*
Jun 29 02:10:11 <Sc0rpius> /usr/lib/libhildonfm.so  /usr/lib/libhildonfm.so.2  /usr/lib/libhildonfm.so.2.0.0
Jun 29 02:10:19 <Sc0rpius> are we talking about Maemo 5 here?
Jun 29 02:10:23 <Ken-Young> Yup
Jun 29 02:10:28 <Sc0rpius> well I don't have those.
Jun 29 02:10:34 <Sc0rpius> I mean I have hildon-fm
Jun 29 02:10:37 <Sc0rpius> but not hildon-fm-2
Jun 29 02:11:03 <Ken-Young> I can build for ARM, and the program runs correctly on my N900, so the package is there somewhere.
Jun 29 02:11:25 <Ken-Young> Do you have hildonfm2 ?
Jun 29 02:11:39 <Sc0rpius> I have those I showed
Jun 29 02:11:50 <Ken-Young> Oh, yes, I should have seen that.
Jun 29 02:12:12 <Sc0rpius> and in my hone is the same
Jun 29 02:12:29 <Sc0rpius> I have libhildonfm.so.2 but no libhildonfm2.so.xx
Jun 29 02:12:58 <Sc0rpius> I wonder where you got that, and I think autobuilder wonders it too 
Jun 29 02:13:25 <Sc0rpius> what about specifying hildon-fm instead of hildon-fm-2 ?
Jun 29 02:14:27 <Ken-Young> Very strange.   I don't see it in my /usr/lib either.   But if I don't put it in configure.ac, I get link errors, and if I do put it in that file, everything works smoothly building in my environmnet, for but ARM and x86, but the autobuilder dies.
Jun 29 02:14:50 <Ken-Young> OK, I'll try hildon-fm.  That's a good idea.
Jun 29 02:15:57 <Sc0rpius> I have this though:
Jun 29 02:16:07 <Sc0rpius> ii  libhildonfm2                                        2.28.21+0m5                    Hildon file management libraries.
Jun 29 02:16:14 <Sc0rpius> and the builder will need that and:
Jun 29 02:16:21 <Sc0rpius> ii  libhildonfm2-dev                                    2.28.21+0m5                    Development files for libhildonfm2.
Jun 29 02:16:59 <Sc0rpius> in summary
Jun 29 02:17:15 <Sc0rpius> Build-Depends should have libhildonfm2-dev�
Jun 29 02:17:19 <Sc0rpius> and 
Jun 29 02:17:31 <Sc0rpius> Depends should have libhildonfm2
Jun 29 02:17:46 <Ken-Young> Sadly, neither putting in hildon-fm nor hildon-fm works.   I can't even build locally with those dependencies.
Jun 29 02:17:51 <Sc0rpius> maybe Build-Depends should have both actually.
Jun 29 02:18:00 <Sc0rpius> it's called "libhildonfm2"
Jun 29 02:18:19 <Ken-Young> I think I've tried that, but I'll try it again.
Jun 29 02:18:43 <Sc0rpius> Build-Depends: should have libhildonfm2-dev and libhildonfm2 and Depends: should have libhildonfm2 only
Jun 29 02:20:57 <Ken-Young> No combination of "lib" "hildon" "fm", "2" and "dev" seems to work, with or without dashes, except hildon-fm-2, which works locally, but not with the builder.
Jun 29 02:21:36 <Sc0rpius> well my package is called libhildonfm2
Jun 29 02:21:54 <Sc0rpius> maybe you're using a different implementation?
Jun 29 02:22:01 <Ken-Young> Well, the configure.ac file has lines like
Jun 29 02:22:19 <Ken-Young> PKG_CHECK_MODULES(GTK, [gtk+-2.0])
Jun 29 02:22:24 <Sc0rpius> hmm
Jun 29 02:22:31 <Ken-Young> which work properly. 
Jun 29 02:22:44 * jonwil has run out of things to work on :(
Jun 29 02:22:46 <Sc0rpius> I was assuming you developed what you're trying to compile
Jun 29 02:22:50 <Ken-Young> So I fingured I should not have a lib prefix.
Jun 29 02:22:54 <Sc0rpius> are you trying to port something instead to Maemo?
Jun 29 02:23:16 <Ken-Young> Sc0rpius, I did develope what I'm trying to compile.   Completely from scratch.
Jun 29 02:23:22 <Sc0rpius> oh
Jun 29 02:23:31 <Sc0rpius> because it's really weird where you got that hildon-fm-2 package if any
Jun 29 02:23:43 <Ken-Young> But my grasp of autotools is tenuous.
Jun 29 02:23:59 <Sc0rpius> [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/workspace/modest/debian] > dpkg -l | grep hildon | grep fm | grep -v l10 
Jun 29 02:24:00 <Sc0rpius> ii  libhildonfm2                                        2.28.21+0m5                    Hildon file management libraries.
Jun 29 02:24:00 <Sc0rpius> ii  libhildonfm2-dev                                    2.28.21+0m5                    Development files for libhildonfm2.
Jun 29 02:24:07 <Sc0rpius> that's all I have that has hildon and fm
Jun 29 02:25:05 <Ken-Young> I may have to try to find some other app which uses these file selection widgets, and try to get ahold of the autotools files for it.
Jun 29 02:25:49 <Ken-Young> Maybe I should just switch to the gtk file selection widgets, and avoid this hassle.
Jun 29 02:25:54 <Sc0rpius> now I see where you got that hildon-fm-2
Jun 29 02:26:14 <Sc0rpius> [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > pkg-config --libs hildon-fm-2
Jun 29 02:26:14 <Sc0rpius> -pthread -lhildonfm -lgtk-x11-2.0 -lgnomevfs-2 -lgdk-x11-2.0 -latk-1.0 -lgio-2.0 -lpangoft2-1.0 -lgdk_pixbuf-2.0 -lpangocairo-1.0 -lcai
Jun 29 02:26:14 <Sc0rpius> lpango-1.0 -lfreetype -lfontconfig -lgconf-2 -lgthread-2.0 -lrt -lgmodule-2.0 -ldbus-glib-1 -ldbus-1 -lpthread -lgobject-2.0 -lglib-2.0
Jun 29 02:27:06 <Sc0rpius> what's the error from the autobuilder?
Jun 29 02:27:14 <Sc0rpius> maybe you have to add something else and it's not hildon-fm-2
Jun 29 02:27:36 <Ken-Young> checking for FM... configure: error: Package requirements (hildon-fm-2) were not met:
Jun 29 02:27:37 <Ken-Young> No package 'hildon-fm-2' found
Jun 29 02:28:24 <Ken-Young> But that same check on my local system works properly.
Jun 29 02:28:41 <Ken-Young> I may need some magic in the debian control file.
Jun 29 02:28:56 <Ken-Young> To get the autobuilder to load that up.
Jun 29 02:29:58 <Ken-Young> I may need something on the control file's Build-Depends line.
Jun 29 02:30:49 <Ken-Young> I'll try random permutations of lib, hildon, fm, 2 and dev on that line.
Jun 29 02:31:20 <Sc0rpius> well
Jun 29 02:31:31 <Sc0rpius> in Build-Depends
Jun 29 02:31:42 <Sc0rpius> try libhildonfm2-dev and hildon-fm-2 after it
Jun 29 02:31:58 <Sc0rpius> since hildon-fm-2.pc file (for pkg-config) is provided ONLY for libhildonfm2-dev and no other package
Jun 29 02:32:31 <Sc0rpius> it works locally because you have libhildonfm2-dev installed in your scratchbox
Jun 29 02:32:37 <Ken-Young> Do you mean put BOTH libhildonfm2-dev and hildon-fm-2 on the Build-Depends line of the control file?
Jun 29 02:33:10 <Ken-Young> I agree the solution is to get the autobuilder to install something I already have installed lcally.
Jun 29 02:33:17 <Sc0rpius> yes
Jun 29 02:33:24 <Sc0rpius> both 
Jun 29 02:33:41 <Ken-Young> OK, I'll try that.   Thanks for the suggestion!
Jun 29 02:40:49 <Ken-Young> Sc0rpius, Just putting libhildonfm2-dev in the Build-Depends line did the trick, without the hildon-fm-2.
Jun 29 02:41:05 <Ken-Young> Thanks again very much for your help.
Jun 29 02:41:14 <Sc0rpius> nice
Jun 29 02:41:31 <Sc0rpius> you have to put libhildonfm2 in Depends:
Jun 29 02:42:00 <Sc0rpius> just to be consistent since libhildonfm2 seems to be installed in all N900s
Jun 29 02:43:05 <Ken-Young> Yeah, I definitely didin't have to load anything special on my N900 to get the program to work.   I just scp'd the binary over, and it worked.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jun 29 02:59:56 2011