**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 29 02:59:56 2011
Jun 29 03:13:39 <jonwil> bah, there has to be SOMETHING I can do towards further enhancing the MAEMO ecosystem...
Jun 29 03:28:20 <SpeedEvil> Problem is the 'obvious' things all end up as hideous.
Jun 29 03:28:50 <SpeedEvil> For example - rewriting the tangled ball of mce/bme/icd/dsme/...
Jun 29 04:01:51 <GeneralAntilles> Oh, Engadget
Jun 29 04:01:58 <GeneralAntilles> You so silly. Politics is not your forte.
Jun 29 04:11:01 <bindi> gah 
Jun 29 04:11:05 <bindi> am i really missing something
Jun 29 04:11:11 <bindi> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=24905 how do I install this
Jun 29 04:13:23 <bindi> i have advanced power
Jun 29 04:16:37 <jonwil> Well there seems to be a fair bit of work being done on creating open-source clones of some of the closed-source control panels and widgets, so are there any more of those that would be worth cloning?
Jun 29 04:17:01 <bindi> aha
Jun 29 04:17:22 <bindi> I get an error when I run python /opt/maemo/usr/lib/advanced-power-monitor/apmdaemon.py
Jun 29 04:17:47 <bindi> ImportError: no module named advpowcommon.util.loader
Jun 29 04:39:08 <user_> hello world
Jun 29 04:54:01 <bindi> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1041215#post1041215
Jun 29 04:54:09 <bindi> if anyone knows :p
Jun 29 05:06:33 <RST38h> Well. Moo.
Jun 29 06:15:12 <ruskie> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/29/aluminum_celmet/ <-- interesting
Jun 29 06:55:16 <hiemanshu> so everyone can get RDA now :D
Jun 29 06:57:58 <cloudyLights> morning
Jun 29 06:58:11 <cloudyLights> khertan!
Jun 29 06:58:46 <mece> mornin'
Jun 29 06:59:50 <khertan> Morning !
Jun 29 07:00:29 <hiemanshu> khertan: so with RDA, I tested the plain Qt apps on N950, they are reallly ugly
Jun 29 07:02:42 <hiemanshu> khertan: I have one for the next one-ish hour if you want me to test anything on it
Jun 29 07:08:18 <Termana> good morning
Jun 29 07:12:05 <khertan> hiemanshu, ouch ... It s a bad news
Jun 29 07:12:22 <hiemanshu> khertan: but they work fine on SDK
Jun 29 07:12:27 <khertan> by ugly just display result, or unusable ?
Jun 29 07:12:32 <hiemanshu> display result
Jun 29 07:12:37 <hiemanshu> lemme take screenshots
Jun 29 07:12:43 <khertan> hiemanshu, like plastique theme ?
Jun 29 07:12:47 <hiemanshu> yup
Jun 29 07:13:11 <khertan> ok ... no no meegotouch-qt-theme installed
Jun 29 07:13:29 <khertan> anyway... they ll remove it soon from the repository
Jun 29 07:13:41 <khertan> as it not maintained
Jun 29 07:13:42 <hiemanshu> khertan: http://imgur.com/a/da46U
Jun 29 07:13:55 <khertan> so no choice than to use qml or another framework
Jun 29 07:14:17 <hiemanshu> NNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOO :/
Jun 29 07:14:27 <khertan> yep they fucked up Qt
Jun 29 07:14:40 <hiemanshu> and they preach Qt
Jun 29 07:14:50 <khertan> Qt is not anymore
Jun 29 07:14:51 <hiemanshu> and everyone knows QML is still very immature
Jun 29 07:15:17 <khertan> hiemanshu, they didn't give release date for the n9
Jun 29 07:15:33 <khertan> maybe they plan to release it september 2012
Jun 29 07:15:42 <hiemanshu> hah
Jun 29 07:15:50 <hiemanshu> well they said later this year right
Jun 29 07:16:11 <khertan> For me this forced move to QML look like an other try to kill the plateform
Jun 29 07:16:12 <hiemanshu> khertan: well either ways there has to be something
Jun 29 07:16:35 <hiemanshu> khertan: do you have debs for your apps that i could try on this?
Jun 29 07:17:05 <khertan> hiemanshu, not really ... as they aren't ported to harmattan yet
Jun 29 07:17:13 <hiemanshu> khertan: ah
Jun 29 07:17:19 <khertan> hiemanshu, some depandancies need to be ported before
Jun 29 07:17:25 <hiemanshu> ah ok
Jun 29 07:17:46 * hiemanshu didn't need any extra deps
Jun 29 07:18:00 <khertan> and for the moment i didn't know if i ll do it
Jun 29 07:18:16 <khertan> hiemanshu, some depends on PyQt4 :)
Jun 29 07:18:26 <khertan> yep code in python
Jun 29 07:18:27 <khertan> :)
Jun 29 07:19:02 <hiemanshu> yeah, it has python on it
Jun 29 07:19:06 <hiemanshu> just no pyside or PyQt4
Jun 29 07:19:52 <hiemanshu> khertan: http://i.imgur.com/2ZNaB.png
Jun 29 07:20:24 <khertan> hiemanshu, pyside is available
Jun 29 07:20:26 <khertan> not pyqt4
Jun 29 07:20:43 <hiemanshu> khertan: for me the goal is simple, if I get an N950, I'll learn QML otherwise I'll work on maintaing meegotouch-qt-style
Jun 29 07:20:47 <hiemanshu> khertan: up for it?
Jun 29 07:21:21 <khertan> hiemanshu, pyside is available on the harmattan sdk repository
Jun 29 07:21:35 <khertan> and ill be available in ovi store repository
Jun 29 07:21:55 <khertan> same for me ... if i got an n950 i ll use QML ... else ... no ... 
Jun 29 07:22:13 <khertan> hiemanshu, mainly because qml doesn't work well on n900
Jun 29 07:22:20 <hiemanshu> khertan: yup
Jun 29 07:22:34 <hiemanshu> proper qml support was added in .7.2
Jun 29 07:22:45 <khertan> 4.7.3
Jun 29 07:22:53 <khertan> there is many bug in 7.2
Jun 29 07:23:06 <khertan> hiemanshu, and i ll probably try to create my own framework based on pygame ...
Jun 29 07:23:26 <hiemanshu> hah ok
Jun 29 07:23:42 <khertan> pygame is based on sdl
Jun 29 07:23:51 <hiemanshu> khertan: well, I am going to wait and see what happens about the N950, or I'll work on imporving meegotouch-qt-style
Jun 29 07:23:54 <khertan> available on maemo, WebOS, and Android
Jun 29 07:24:22 <khertan> hiemanshu, i ll probably try to improve meegotouch-qt-style ... but there is many things to fix
Jun 29 07:24:43 <khertan> (if i get an n950)
Jun 29 07:24:55 <khertan> as currently what i'm trying to do isn't possible in QML
Jun 29 07:25:29 <hiemanshu> well I have to define a mouse area, define a layout and what not to get a simple push button :/
Jun 29 07:30:12 <khertan> hiemanshu, try to do syntax hilighting ... or extending qml to integrate qtextedit ... it s a real headache ... how can they claim it s easier
Jun 29 07:30:15 <khertan> it s not
Jun 29 07:30:35 <hiemanshu> khertan: there seems to a Widget Gallery, boosted Widget gallery, QML components gallery
Jun 29 07:30:42 <hiemanshu> be a*
Jun 29 07:31:13 <khertan> hiemanshu, yep ... it s just improve look and feel ... but didn't provide better text managment
Jun 29 07:31:34 <hiemanshu> khertan: well I am assuming atleast one of them is plain Qt
Jun 29 07:32:11 <khertan> ?
Jun 29 07:33:27 <hiemanshu> khertan: from all the widget gallerys
Jun 29 07:33:49 <khertan> did you have a link ?
Jun 29 07:33:52 <arvut> I am a gagamoth and I'm tired as effin hełł
Jun 29 07:35:41 <hiemanshu> khertan: ok there is PySide on the device, just no PyQt4
Jun 29 07:37:26 <khertan> hiemanshu, yep ... but having pyside officially is a good thing
Jun 29 07:37:49 <khertan> except that only QtCore and QtDeclarative can be really used :(
Jun 29 07:38:06 <hiemanshu> khertan: sure but whats the use if they are ugly like windows 95
Jun 29 07:39:13 <khertan> hiemanshu, you can use qml with pyside and python
Jun 29 07:39:40 <hiemanshu> khertan: yes, the problem here is qml, not pyside or python
Jun 29 07:39:47 <hiemanshu> khertan: I can code both in python and C++
Jun 29 07:41:40 <khertan> hiemanshu, i agree qml is the problem
Jun 29 07:42:21 <khertan> hiemanshu, Qt was a good framework :( RIP
Jun 29 07:42:27 <hiemanshu> khertan: there are a lot of plain qt apps meant for touch screen that could be ported over easily if something was possible
Jun 29 07:42:38 <hiemanshu> khertan: Qt is a good framework if you -QML
Jun 29 07:42:59 <khertan> hiemanshu, they will not remove QML, but they will not maintain QWidget
Jun 29 07:43:02 <khertan> so RIP
Jun 29 07:43:42 <hiemanshu> khertan: well yes :/
Jun 29 07:44:13 <khertan> hiemanshu, seems that JS will win the language war
Jun 29 07:44:48 <hiemanshu> khertan: if it does, I'll stop programming and learn to do something else
Jun 29 07:48:31 <khertan> hiemanshu, :)
Jun 29 07:48:54 <hiemanshu> maybe drive a truck!
Jun 29 07:49:18 <bindi> would be cool to have xterm as a widget
Jun 29 07:49:23 <bindi> or a whole desktop is an actual terminal
Jun 29 07:49:35 <bindi> tried googling but doesnt exist :<
Jun 29 07:49:41 <hiemanshu> bindi: make one? :P
Jun 29 07:49:46 <bindi> not with my skills
Jun 29 07:49:51 <bindi> if it takes php, sure!
Jun 29 07:50:52 <khertan> lol
Jun 29 07:51:02 <wazd> hi all
Jun 29 07:51:09 <khertan> hiemanshu, you see dev gone crazy ... php ... js ... :)
Jun 29 07:51:39 <bindi> :(
Jun 29 07:52:58 <hiemanshu> khertan: a FEA, the add account button in khweeteur should be on the top, people like me are lazy to scroll down
Jun 29 07:53:59 <khertan> hiemanshu, indeed :)
Jun 29 07:54:28 <hiemanshu> khertan: ok, so khweeteur crashed a few times
Jun 29 07:54:29 <hiemanshu> :/
Jun 29 07:54:40 <khertan> hiemanshu, on maemo ?
Jun 29 07:54:43 <hiemanshu> yup
Jun 29 07:55:19 <khertan> uh ... which pyside version did you have ?
Jun 29 07:55:31 <khertan> i ve some user having segfault on qtcore that i didn't understand
Jun 29 07:56:00 <hiemanshu> khertan: the one it installed on its own
Jun 29 07:56:03 <khertan> which happen while bytecompiling the python source file
Jun 29 07:56:11 <hiemanshu> ok crashed again
Jun 29 07:56:16 <hiemanshu> random crashes :/
Jun 29 07:56:26 <khertan> hiemanshu, could you launch it from xterm please ?
Jun 29 07:57:16 <hiemanshu> khertan: its making a new bug, bug 848
Jun 29 07:57:17 <povbot> 04Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/848 libgtk2.0-bin doesn't upgrade if an old version of libXfixes is present
Jun 29 08:00:35 <khertan> lol poorbot
Jun 29 08:01:10 <khertan> no tb_back ... strange
Jun 29 08:06:51 <khertan> hiemanshu, thx
Jun 29 08:07:53 <hiemanshu> khertan: my pleasure, /me needed an app on maemo
Jun 29 08:08:41 <hiemanshu> khertan: I like the way you show the actual message in small when there is a reply to it
Jun 29 08:20:28 <hiemanshu> khertan: even the N8 works fine, but N9 wont :/
Jun 29 08:22:23 <khertan> hiemanshu, yep this is something many client do not do ... and i like it this way ... so you can understand talk more easily
Jun 29 08:22:41 <khertan> hiemanshu, what work fine on the n8 ?
Jun 29 08:22:44 <hiemanshu> khertan: yup
Jun 29 08:22:47 <hiemanshu> khertan: plain Qt
Jun 29 08:23:04 <khertan> hiemanshu, hum ... just avoid some qdialog :)
Jun 29 08:23:18 <hiemanshu> yeah, no QDialog :D
Jun 29 08:23:57 * khertan have just see how to do a filedialog in qml ... you need to create a qml extension in c++
Jun 29 08:23:59 <khertan> haha
Jun 29 08:24:03 <khertan> qml #fail again
Jun 29 08:24:24 <hiemanshu> hah
Jun 29 08:24:33 <hiemanshu> just QFileDialog and done :D
Jun 29 08:24:36 <hiemanshu> +use
Jun 29 08:37:25 <MohammadAG> hiemanshu, QDialogs work on the N8
Jun 29 08:37:34 <MohammadAG> just use showMaximized()
Jun 29 08:38:32 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: well yes, but I dont need them right now
Jun 29 08:38:41 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: btw did you get sociality to work?
Jun 29 08:39:12 <MohammadAG> hiemanshu, on the N950? Nope, Operation Not Permtted
Jun 29 08:39:22 <MohammadAG> <3 Aegis
Jun 29 08:39:23 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: ah, I got my app running though
Jun 29 08:39:43 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: http://imgur.com/a/da46U
Jun 29 08:39:46 <hiemanshu> bad bad theming :/
Jun 29 08:40:52 <MohammadAG> hiemanshu, that's not themed
Jun 29 08:41:00 <MohammadAG> Harmattan has plain Qt themed
Jun 29 08:41:37 <hiemanshu> right, but sbox showed it themed
Jun 29 08:41:38 <Khertan> hiemanshu, did you try to launch it with -style meegotouch
Jun 29 08:41:57 <hiemanshu> Khertan: I had QApplication::setStyle
Jun 29 08:41:59 <MohammadAG> the N950 should show it themed too
Jun 29 08:42:21 <MohammadAG> they don't matter
Jun 29 08:42:29 <Khertan> MohammadAG, in bug report they said they will remove it from repository
Jun 29 08:42:32 <MohammadAG> if you have the style installed it defaults to it
Jun 29 08:42:44 * MohammadAG chokes
Jun 29 08:42:59 <MohammadAG> Khertan, what?!
Jun 29 08:43:16 <hiemanshu> I am not going to learn QML if they dont give me a N950, instead I'll work on maintaing meegotouch-qt-style
Jun 29 08:45:00 <Khertan> MohammadAG, https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20035#c1
Jun 29 08:45:01 <povbot> 04Bug 20035: was not found.
Jun 29 08:45:16 <Khertan> https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17034
Jun 29 08:45:17 <povbot> 04Bug 17034: was not found.
Jun 29 08:45:32 <MohammadAG> you're mixing MeeGo and Harmattan Khertan 
Jun 29 08:45:47 <jonwil> bah, totally out of ideas of things to work on :(
Jun 29 08:45:57 <Khertan> MohammadAG, ;) Harmattan isn't a mix ?
Jun 29 08:46:37 <MohammadAG> point is, if they remove it from MeeGo, that doesn't mean it'll be gone on Harmattan
Jun 29 08:46:52 <MohammadAG> also Harmattan's theme looks a lot better
Jun 29 08:47:26 <cloudyLights> <jonwil> hi
Jun 29 08:47:30 <Khertan> point is that we have only one handset device that didn't use a true meego base, and we have already begin fragmentation
Jun 29 08:47:36 <cloudyLights> any news regarding lib location?
Jun 29 08:48:20 <Khertan> MohammadAG, i hope, as my try from the harmattan sb sdk was a huge failure
Jun 29 08:48:26 <Khertan> MohammadAG, bugged everywhere
Jun 29 08:48:32 <Khertan> MohammadAG, with many segfault
Jun 29 08:50:51 <hiemanshu> jonwil: write a google reader client :D
Jun 29 08:51:01 <MohammadAG> Khertan, it's a beta SDK :p
Jun 29 08:51:12 <Venemo> if I install the Harmattan SDK on top of my already existing Fremantle and Diablo SDK, will it keep the Fremantle/Diablo targets?
Jun 29 08:51:20 <hiemanshu> Venemo: yes
Jun 29 08:51:29 <MohammadAG> Venemo, manually, yes
Jun 29 08:51:35 <MohammadAG> not sure about the script
Jun 29 08:51:37 <jonwil> Not interested in a Google Reader client :P
Jun 29 08:51:44 <Venemo> I'm using the installer .py script
Jun 29 08:51:56 <hiemanshu> Venemo: even the script will
Jun 29 08:51:59 <hiemanshu> I ahve it running fine
Jun 29 08:52:05 <Khertan> MohammadAG, yep just hope, as many nokia qt guy say that Qt Plain will not work
Jun 29 08:52:10 <cloudyLights> <jonwil> gather cellular info to log file
Jun 29 08:52:10 <Venemo> hiemanshu, on F15 as well, I assume?
Jun 29 08:52:16 <hiemanshu> Venemo: yup
Jun 29 08:52:19 <RST38h> Hello, gentlemen
Jun 29 08:52:21 <MohammadAG> look for a pastebin.com link that has my name before it and was pasted by javispedro in logs
Jun 29 08:52:24 <RST38h> Anything new and exciting?
Jun 29 08:52:27 <Venemo> hiemanshu, okay, then I'm not worrying :)
Jun 29 08:52:27 <cloudyLights> so when a certain tower appears I am alerted
Jun 29 08:52:43 <Venemo> Khertan, what do you mean, Qt Plain will not work?
Jun 29 08:52:46 <hiemanshu> Venemo: for once the sdk .py didn't have to fixed or edited :D
Jun 29 08:52:55 <Khertan> Venemo, we don't know yet
Jun 29 08:53:03 <Venemo> hiemanshu :)
Jun 29 08:53:04 <hiemanshu> Venemo: well so far its not themed
Jun 29 08:53:14 <Venemo> not themed?
Jun 29 08:53:15 <Venemo> wtf?
Jun 29 08:53:23 <Venemo> but there _is_ a Qt Style for Harmattan
Jun 29 08:53:23 <hiemanshu> Venemo: http://imgur.com/a/da46U
Jun 29 08:53:26 <hiemanshu> from RDA
Jun 29 08:54:03 <Khertan> Venemo, sdk seems to say yes but not ready, some qt guys says no use qml qwidget deprecated ..., meego.com bug report say deprecated and will be removed from repository
Jun 29 08:54:14 <Venemo> lol
Jun 29 08:54:20 <Venemo> QWidgets are _NOT_ deprecated
Jun 29 08:54:30 <Venemo> they are "Done", and moved to a different library for Qt 5
Jun 29 08:54:39 <Venemo> but not "deprecated"
Jun 29 08:54:40 <Venemo> lol
Jun 29 08:54:45 <flailingmonkey> "stable"
Jun 29 08:54:47 <flailingmonkey> heh
Jun 29 08:55:03 <MohammadAG> #meego says they are, they're not
Jun 29 08:55:04 <Khertan> Venemo, there is different sound ... from different people
Jun 29 08:55:24 <Venemo> Khertan, well, what I said is the official view from Qt Labs.
Jun 29 08:55:36 <Khertan> Venemo, thx for the info
Jun 29 08:55:40 <Venemo> and I know for a fact that there is a QMeegoTouchStyle
Jun 29 08:55:51 <Venemo> so if it's not working properly, then it's a bug.
Jun 29 08:56:00 <MohammadAG> QMaemo6Style*
Jun 29 08:56:19 <Venemo> yes, that too
Jun 29 08:56:28 <Venemo> [10:52] <Venemo> so if it's not working properly, then it's a bug.
Jun 29 08:57:31 <Khertan> Venemo, at least it s not working properly currently in Harmattan SDK
Jun 29 08:57:54 <Venemo> plus, these plans of "deprecating" or "moving to a separate module" are _only_ for Qt 5
Jun 29 08:58:07 <Venemo> they are still there in libQtGui in Qt4.x, so they have no excuse for this one
Jun 29 08:58:22 <Venemo> and I won't use QML until at least the next version of it.
Jun 29 08:58:26 <Khertan> (beta sdk) don't know if i should submit bug and where to
Jun 29 08:58:35 <Khertan> Venemo, same here ... qml not ready for my use
Jun 29 08:58:51 <Venemo> in my current app, I wouldn't gain anything by using QML
Jun 29 08:59:01 <Khertan> Venemo, i m happy to hear i m not the only one to not use qml
Jun 29 08:59:19 <Khertan> Venemo, in my current app it s a regression
Jun 29 08:59:45 <jonwil> There has to be a list of things the CSSU needs somewhere
Jun 29 08:59:52 <Khertan> Venemo, did you know if there is plan to port qt5 to Fremantle ?
Jun 29 09:00:30 <Venemo> Khertan, MohammadAG and myself are strongly not using QML currently because of its shortcomings.
Jun 29 09:01:00 <Venemo> Khertan, I'm not aware of any official Fremantle plans, but that doesn't mean there aren't any. ask achipa about this
Jun 29 09:01:45 <Jaffa> Khertan: Read this week's MWKN - it's got a thing on where to submit SDK bugs
Jun 29 09:02:35 <Khertan> Jaffa, thx
Jun 29 09:02:38 <jonwil> I see no reason why a community port of QT5 to Fremantle couldn't happen if the demand from the community was there
Jun 29 09:02:51 <jonwil> Its open source after all
Jun 29 09:03:00 <Khertan> jonwil, look at the try to port 4.7.2 to Fremantle
Jun 29 09:03:05 <MohammadAG> Venemo, I started looking into QML
Jun 29 09:03:07 <Khertan> jonwil, in the cssu
Jun 29 09:03:28 <Khertan> jonwil, we wasn't able to fix the raster engine bug ... so i doubt of a full port
Jun 29 09:03:29 <Khertan> :)
Jun 29 09:03:42 <MohammadAG> not progressing though, yet
Jun 29 09:03:52 <Khertan> MohammadAG, traitor
Jun 29 09:03:56 <Khertan> :)
Jun 29 09:04:08 <MohammadAG> 4.7.4 is maemo upstream now
Jun 29 09:04:13 <jonwil> I think a port of cellular-qt to Fremantle would be nice...
Jun 29 09:04:17 <MohammadAG> but still has the raster bug
Jun 29 09:04:32 <Khertan> MohammadAG, :(
Jun 29 09:04:33 <jonwil> Whats hard about fixing this raster bug?
Jun 29 09:04:39 <Khertan> jonwil, to found it ...
Jun 29 09:04:42 <Venemo> jonwil, finding what causes it...
Jun 29 09:05:12 <Khertan> jonwil, i ve try to revert every git commit ... without founding it
Jun 29 09:05:18 <hiemanshu> exactly
Jun 29 09:05:19 <Venemo> hiemanshu, is your comic reader app installable on F15 or Maemo5?
Jun 29 09:05:35 <hiemanshu> Venemo: Maemo5 yes, do you want a deb?
Jun 29 09:06:01 <jonwil> is cellular-qt open?
Jun 29 09:06:25 <hiemanshu> Venemo: and F15 yes, with a few changes
Jun 29 09:06:33 <MohammadAG> Khertan, you sure you reverted every commit?
Jun 29 09:06:44 <MohammadAG> cause eventually you would've reached the non buggy Qt
Jun 29 09:06:54 <Khertan> MohammadAG, sure not ...
Jun 29 09:07:10 <MohammadAG> which was introduced somewhere between 4.7.0 and 4.7.1
Jun 29 09:07:13 <Khertan> MohammadAG, as i didn't reach the non buggy qt
Jun 29 09:07:43 <Venemo> hiemanshu, I want 'yum install' or 'apt-get install'
Jun 29 09:08:05 <jonwil> damn, looks like cellular-qt is not open :(
Jun 29 09:08:20 <hiemanshu> Venemo: its still a WIP, so I haven't really added them to repos
Jun 29 09:08:26 <Venemo> hiemanshu, for example, you can 'yum install puzzle-master' on your F15 to get my app and 'apt-get install puzzle-master' on Maemo 5 to get it
Jun 29 09:09:12 <hiemanshu> Venemo: right, but I haven't updated it yet, not unless I fill out the other two pushbuttons (I am waiting on permissions)
Jun 29 09:09:36 <Venemo> mhm
Jun 29 09:09:39 <Venemo> all right
Jun 29 09:10:07 <Venemo> I'll wait it out then
Jun 29 09:10:24 <hiemanshu> Venemo: you could always dpkg -i it
Jun 29 09:10:55 <flailingmonkey> MohammadAG: are you saying the raster bug didn't exist in 4.7.0?
Jun 29 09:11:08 <Venemo> hiemanshu, on F15?
Jun 29 09:11:11 <Venemo> flailingmonkey, that is correct
Jun 29 09:11:20 <Venemo> flailingmonkey, not even in 4.7.1
Jun 29 09:11:21 <hiemanshu> Venemo: on maemo5
Jun 29 09:11:33 <flailingmonkey> MohammadAG: it's possible that the true cause of the bug existed/was introduced earlier but was "protected" from being revealed by other bugs
Jun 29 09:11:57 <Venemo> hiemanshu, is the app OSS? maybe I'll just get the sources then
Jun 29 09:12:31 <hiemanshu> Venemo: it is, but the sources are messed up, I am going to push later in the evening today
Jun 29 09:12:37 <MohammadAG> flailingmonkey, well, it's not in 4.8.0
Jun 29 09:12:53 <MohammadAG> but 4.8.0 is a technical preview, so I can't push that
Jun 29 09:13:03 <MohammadAG> oh one more thing
Jun 29 09:13:15 <MohammadAG> are there Qt 4.7.5-4.7.9?
Jun 29 09:13:30 <Venemo> I don't think so
Jun 29 09:13:43 <flailingmonkey> MohammadAG: it makes me cring when numbering gets to something like 4.7.11
Jun 29 09:13:50 <Venemo> hiemanshu, okay, just gimme a link at the evening then :)
Jun 29 09:14:00 <hiemanshu> Venemo: ok awesome
Jun 29 09:17:19 <Venemo> is there a command to start the GUI on the SDK?
Jun 29 09:18:49 <ruskie> fun... create for millions - nokia s40 contest nice to see it still being promoted
Jun 29 09:20:15 <Venemo> hm
Jun 29 09:20:22 <Venemo> I have trouble with my debian control file...
Jun 29 09:22:00 <Khertan> Venemo, meego-sb-*
Jun 29 09:22:24 <Venemo> meego-sb-session ?
Jun 29 09:22:25 <Khertan> Venemo, it s explained on harmattan-dev.nokia.com
Jun 29 09:22:34 <Venemo> ok, I'll get breakfast
Jun 29 09:22:35 <Venemo> brb
Jun 29 09:22:37 <Khertan> Venemo, yep meego-sb-session start
Jun 29 09:24:24 <hiemanshu> Venemo: start Xephyr, and then meego-sb-session start right away
Jun 29 09:40:09 <MohammadAG> hiemanshu, you forgot setting $DISPLAY :p
Jun 29 09:40:27 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: well no, it auto sets display for me
Jun 29 09:41:00 <hiemanshu> cdl ++
Jun 29 09:43:37 <Jaffa> X-Fade: ping
Jun 29 09:44:11 <Jaffa> X-Fade: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3694 - will the Harmattan COBS target use Scratchbox, i.e. will checking for $SBOX_UNAME_MACHINE return "true"?
Jun 29 09:44:27 <hiemanshu> Venemo: https://github.com/hiemanshu/komedia/tree/N900
Jun 29 09:44:35 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: have the link to the nokia sdk bug report?
Jun 29 09:44:59 <lardman> morning
Jun 29 09:46:26 <X-Fade> Jaffa: No, it won't.
Jun 29 09:50:08 <bindi> ha, fixed my problem
Jun 29 09:50:56 <Jaffa> X-Fade: OK, thanks
Jun 29 09:52:50 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Do you know if there is an env. variable which could be used to identify OBS builds? There must be one, after all...
Jun 29 09:55:29 <Venemo> hiemanshu, can you gimme a line to launch Xephyr?
Jun 29 09:55:32 <lardman> Any Nokians about who are involved in GPS stuff?
Jun 29 09:56:15 <lardman> I'm just wondering whether the Nokia SUPL server will provide LTO data?
Jun 29 09:56:47 <alterego> What's LTO?
Jun 29 09:56:54 <lardman> Long Time Orbit
Jun 29 09:57:06 <lardman> http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/tb/LTO-TB100-R.pdf
Jun 29 09:57:28 <alterego> Hmmm, I donmt think it does. Is that jusually in the ephemeris?
Jun 29 09:57:42 <hiemanshu> Venemo: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Platform_Guide/Getting_started_with_Harmattan_Platform_SDK/Installing_Harmattan_Platform_SDK/Non-Debian 
Jun 29 09:58:03 <alterego> I'd like to see A-GPS integrated into GSM
Jun 29 09:58:17 <alterego> So it's free to use, no need to have a data connection :/
Jun 29 09:58:18 <Venemo> thx hiemanshu
Jun 29 09:58:30 <hiemanshu> Venemo: I also linked you the source btw
Jun 29 09:58:44 <lardman> alterego: it is high accuracy ephemeris data which is valid for ~4 days
Jun 29 09:58:45 <Venemo> hiemanshu, yep, I saw, just haven't got the time to react yet :P
Jun 29 09:59:06 <lardman> alterego: it's hard to know really, as the request probably asks for whatever it wants
Jun 29 09:59:08 <hiemanshu> Venemo: well I still fixing some stupid mistakes I did here and there
Jun 29 09:59:13 <lardman> from the SUPL server
Jun 29 09:59:16 <alterego> lardman: yeah, I get it, didn't recognise the cronym for some reason.
Jun 29 09:59:32 <Venemo> all right
Jun 29 09:59:35 <Venemo> the question now is
Jun 29 09:59:52 <alterego> lardman: sure but all agps needs is the ephemeris package to upload into the gps
Jun 29 10:00:00 <Venemo> how do I make a single control file to work with both Fremantle and Harmattan?
Jun 29 10:00:05 <alterego> This can be auto loaded by cell towers
Jun 29 10:00:20 <hiemanshu> Venemo: soft links?
Jun 29 10:00:29 <Venemo> hiemanshu, what do you mean?
Jun 29 10:01:00 <alterego> Venemo: pick the lowest common denominator for dpkg deps and it should work
Jun 29 10:01:10 <Venemo> alterego, nope
Jun 29 10:01:18 <alterego> The custom fields not recognised by fremantle should be ignored no?
Jun 29 10:01:29 <Venemo> alterego, for Fremantle, I want to depend on something that is specific to Fremantle
Jun 29 10:01:33 <lardman> alterego: yes, but if your ephemeris data go out of date (which is only a matter of hours), and your net connection is poor or non-existant then LTO can help there
Jun 29 10:01:37 <alterego> Ah, hmm
Jun 29 10:02:05 * lardman currently has only 2G in the countryside where he lives and driving around I can drop off the signal map completely
Jun 29 10:02:09 <hiemanshu> Venemo: nvm, /me was thinking of something else
Jun 29 10:02:10 <alterego> lardman: sure, I was talking about agps in general, I don't think lto is distributed
Jun 29 10:02:43 <lardman> On the N900 a central server was used for the SUPL data
Jun 29 10:03:42 <alterego> lardman: it's the same for all Nokia agps
Jun 29 10:04:02 <Venemo> X-Fade, ping
Jun 29 10:04:19 <lardman> which means if they support LTO on the SUPL server, we (or at least I with my dodgy coverage) could benefit
Jun 29 10:04:21 <X-Fade> Venemo: pong
Jun 29 10:04:23 <Venemo> X-Fade, would this approach work on the auto-builder? http://raphaelhertzog.com/2010/09/27/different-dependencies-between-debian-and-ubuntu-but-common-source-package/
Jun 29 10:04:47 <Venemo> X-Fade, I want my package to have a fremantle-specific dependency on Fremantle
Jun 29 10:04:56 <alterego> lardman: I'll ask some people when they come on line that work in that area.
Jun 29 10:05:17 <lardman> thanks
Jun 29 10:05:20 <X-Fade> Venemo: Just use a | dependency then?
Jun 29 10:05:37 <lardman> alterego: I'd need a device too mind you ;)
Jun 29 10:05:38 <Venemo> X-Fade, please elaborate
Jun 29 10:06:17 <X-Fade> Venemo: Is it a lib which is different in fremantle than in debian or so?
Jun 29 10:06:53 <Venemo> not exactly. it is a lib which is present in fremantle but not in others
Jun 29 10:06:56 <Venemo> I currently use: Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5), libqt4-dev (>= 4.5), libqtm-dev | maemo-version (<< 5.0), libqtm-sensors | maemo-version (<< 5.0), libhildon-extras1-dev | maemo-version (<< 5.0)
Jun 29 10:07:04 <Venemo> which makes it build on both Diablo and Fremantle
Jun 29 10:07:26 <Venemo> question is, how can I make it build on Harmattan, which has neither maemo-version nor libhildon-extras1-dev
Jun 29 10:08:29 <flailingmonkey> assume Harmattan when neither exist...?
Jun 29 10:08:35 <flailingmonkey> (ugly i know)
Jun 29 10:08:39 <X-Fade> Venemo: Well for Harmattan I would just keep a separate debian dir. As in OBS you can submit your debian.tar.gz separately.
Jun 29 10:09:10 <Venemo> X-Fade, I prefer to keep a single debian dir, beause the only difference is this single package.
Jun 29 10:09:12 <X-Fade> Venemo: But you can go really fancy with the debain tools, sure.
Jun 29 10:09:19 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Of course, it's not entirely clear how you build that when using the Qt SDK as dpkg-buildpackage assumes you're building a native package
Jun 29 10:09:28 <Venemo> X-Fade, that is why I asked whether the approach on that link would work in the auto-builder or not :)
Jun 29 10:10:03 <Jaffa> Venemo: I've got symlinks between qtc_packaging/debian_harmattan and ..._fremantle for copyright, control, changelog etc. However, it looks like thy should be completely sharable.
Jun 29 10:10:09 <X-Fade> Venemo: The autobuilder is just a scratchbox with some tools on top. So if it works in your local SB, it works there too.
Jun 29 10:10:29 <Venemo> Jaffa, yeah
Jun 29 10:10:33 <Venemo> X-Fade, all right, thank you :)
Jun 29 10:11:05 <alterego> Quim seems to have the list already :/
Jun 29 10:11:10 * alterego shits himself
Jun 29 10:11:22 <MohammadAG> lol was just gonna say that
Jun 29 10:11:23 <Jaffa> alterego: And not enough good submissions for 250
Jun 29 10:11:38 <alterego> Jaffa: seriously?
Jun 29 10:11:42 <alterego> Eek ..
Jun 29 10:11:49 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Thoughts on how to build source.tar.gz, debian.tar.gz and *.dsc from the Qt SDK structure welcome at http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3694
Jun 29 10:12:19 <X-Fade> Jaffa: I have no idea.
Jun 29 10:12:20 <MohammadAG> alterego, yep, he expected more
Jun 29 10:12:25 <Venemo> meh! Harmattan SDK doesn't even have a /etc/dpkg/origins/
Jun 29 10:12:29 <Jaffa> alterego: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=23994&postcount=123
Jun 29 10:12:34 <MohammadAG> if only he could post the list he's been through
Jun 29 10:12:41 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Fair enough. I've emailed Jeremiah to see if he's got any dpkg foo
Jun 29 10:12:42 <MohammadAG> it'd help, in a way
Jun 29 10:12:47 <Jaffa> s/foo/-fu/
Jun 29 10:12:48 <infobot> Jaffa meant: X-Fade: Fair enough. I've emailed Jeremiah to see if he's got any dpkg -fu
Jun 29 10:12:56 <alterego> Well, I have more ideas, I'm willing to accept multiple devices ;)
Jun 29 10:13:06 <MohammadAG> lol
Jun 29 10:13:28 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Why not just create a small script which grabs the files and creates a tarball after you have done the regular stuff?
Jun 29 10:13:50 <Jaffa> X-Fade: The dsc file checksums won't match
Jun 29 10:14:08 <X-Fade> Jaffa: So you are saying your sed skills suck? :)
Jun 29 10:14:14 <alterego> Hahah
Jun 29 10:14:27 <Jaffa> X-Fade: I tried creating a tarball of everything but 'debian' as attitude_0.9.2.orig.tar.gz alongside but then dpkg-buildpackage has a fit
Jun 29 10:14:41 <X-Fade> But yeah, those would need to be updated.
Jun 29 10:14:45 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Are you suggesting I give up on dpkg-buildpackage completely and just generate the dsc file manually? ;-)
Jun 29 10:15:26 <MohammadAG> umm, will qgil send emails to the people who "win" the N950 directly, or will he send all emails in one batch?
Jun 29 10:15:41 <X-Fade> Jaffa: You are allowed to keep your debian dir in the source of course. But that might make it more ugly when you compile for MeeGo rpm.
Jun 29 10:15:41 <Jaffa> X-Fade: BTW, very willing to start testing things in Harmattan OBS ;-)
Jun 29 10:15:55 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Yeah, well.... issues.
Jun 29 10:16:06 <Venemo> hm
Jun 29 10:16:08 <X-Fade> Jaffa: curse busybox :)
Jun 29 10:16:08 <MohammadAG> me too, I have libs to be pushed :)
Jun 29 10:16:13 <Venemo> swipe is buggy in the Harmattan SDK
Jun 29 10:16:38 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: People able to help? We've got some hackers kicking around
Jun 29 10:16:46 <alterego> Yeah, I'd like to push some stuff to the Harmattan OBS too.
Jun 29 10:17:17 <MohammadAG> start a competition, only 1 OBS account will be given out
Jun 29 10:17:25 <alterego> :)
Jun 29 10:17:31 <alterego> To 250 devs?
Jun 29 10:17:35 <alterego> Applications now?
Jun 29 10:18:00 <Khertan> MohammadAG, we will be fixed at end of the week :)
Jun 29 10:18:56 <MohammadAG> alterego, no, there can only be one dev
Jun 29 10:19:57 <Venemo> http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=23994&postcount=123
Jun 29 10:20:13 <MohammadAG> you're late Venemo :P
Jun 29 10:20:24 <Venemo> ?
Jun 29 10:20:49 <alterego> Heh
Jun 29 10:20:57 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Harmattan OBS needs: source tarball, dsc, debian.tar.gz? Does the 'debian.tar.gz' contain a 'debian/' prefix?
Jun 29 10:21:06 <Venemo> well, I have not been sent either a yes neither a no yet
Jun 29 10:21:16 <X-Fade> Jaffa: It just extracts it in the source dir.
Jun 29 10:21:21 <X-Fade> Jaffa: So yeah.
Jun 29 10:21:24 <Jaffa> X-Fade: OK, ta.
Jun 29 10:21:44 * Jaffa is going to write a script which takes a Qt SDK project and produces those
Jun 29 10:21:49 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Is there any signing required?
Jun 29 10:22:07 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Or is it handled, like the autobuilder, by authenticating the uploader
Jun 29 10:22:12 <MohammadAG> Venemo, by the end of the week I think
Jun 29 10:22:17 <Venemo> yep
Jun 29 10:22:19 <X-Fade> Jaffa: No, but you can sign.
Jun 29 10:22:21 <MohammadAG> also, I'm not sure which email I'm getting the yes/no in
Jun 29 10:22:23 <Venemo> hm
Jun 29 10:22:40 <Venemo> meego-sb-session start doesn't work for me on HARMATTAN_X86
Jun 29 10:23:08 <Khertan> qgil Missing more proposals to port great Linux desktop projects to MeeGo @ N950 device program. Forward! Apply today! ... hum ... so it s seems some was refused quickly :)
Jun 29 10:23:36 <flailingmonkey> Quim is going to post a nice list of accepted projects too
Jun 29 10:23:46 <Khertan> lol i m late too
Jun 29 10:23:59 <Venemo> on that, http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=23894&postcount=107
Jun 29 10:24:13 <flailingmonkey> I really wanted to have something worthwhile to put for an app
Jun 29 10:24:35 <Jaffa> X-Fade: So, signing accepted but not required. Good - makes the script easier :-)
Jun 29 10:24:44 <flailingmonkey> but I don't have anything I've written before, and my idea was to create a Qt-based activity viewer for Zietgiest
Jun 29 10:25:22 <flailingmonkey> but I don't know if Zeitgiest is even in Harmattan... I didn't feel worthy of such a sexy device as the N950 :p
Jun 29 10:25:47 * Khertan is crossing finger
Jun 29 10:27:00 * Khertan but my app will be out of scope ... a source code without keyboard .... :( ... Khweeteur a twitter client ... already integrated in n9 ... rest the new planned apps which didn't exist yet
Jun 29 10:27:14 <Khertan> s/source code/source code editor
Jun 29 10:27:39 <Venemo> Khertan :(
Jun 29 10:27:44 <flailingmonkey> Khertan: still, you have proven history of app development
Jun 29 10:27:53 <Khertan> flailingmonkey, indeed
Jun 29 10:27:53 <Khertan> :)
Jun 29 10:28:21 <Khertan> only future know the truth :)
Jun 29 10:28:22 <Khertan> :)
Jun 29 10:28:22 <Venemo> Khertan, Khweeteur and KhtEditor are there and show that you are really able and willing to make apps
Jun 29 10:28:39 <Khertan> ;) w8 and see :)
Jun 29 10:28:40 <flailingmonkey> Khertan: I don't have anything to point to, and I really think the devices should go to those who are already developing
Jun 29 10:28:56 <MohammadAG> would be fun if qgil ended this all next week with a "This was just a test to see who'd apply, we're giving N950s to all 530 applicants!"
Jun 29 10:29:01 <flailingmonkey> 12 mega pixel camera I hear
Jun 29 10:29:10 <Khertan> MohammadAG, hi hi also :)
Jun 29 10:29:10 <MohammadAG> no, 8
Jun 29 10:29:16 <Khertan> flailingmonkey, rumors ...
Jun 29 10:29:28 <MohammadAG> no, not rumors
Jun 29 10:29:38 <Venemo> MohammadAG,  :D
Jun 29 10:29:46 <MohammadAG> the old revision of the dev device had 64GBs of storage, 512MBs of RAM, and a 12MP cam
Jun 29 10:30:00 <MohammadAG> the new one being sent out has 16GBs, 1GB of RAM and an 8MP cam
Jun 29 10:30:03 <Venemo> MohammadAG, or they could say, "This was just a test to see who'd apply, the N950 was just a hoax"
Jun 29 10:30:05 <Khertan> ah ... you know the new one ?
Jun 29 10:30:30 <MohammadAG> yeah, we met in a park :P
Jun 29 10:30:36 <Khertan> MohammadAG, did you know if there is a sd card slot ?
Jun 29 10:30:39 <Khertan> MohammadAG, hihi
Jun 29 10:30:40 <Khertan> :)
Jun 29 10:30:45 <alterego> No SD slot
Jun 29 10:30:49 <lardman> MohammadAG: so the one you were using yesterday was an old one?
Jun 29 10:30:50 <Venemo> MohammadAG, srsly???
Jun 29 10:30:53 <MohammadAG> no SD slot from specs list, could be wrong
Jun 29 10:30:58 <MohammadAG> well I hope I'm wrong
Jun 29 10:31:07 <Venemo> [12:27] <MohammadAG> yeah, we met in a park :P ---> seriously?
Jun 29 10:31:16 <Venemo> are there even parks in there?
Jun 29 10:31:22 <lardman> behind some bushes no doubt
Jun 29 10:31:40 <MohammadAG> :P
Jun 29 10:31:50 <MohammadAG> Venemo, look up the definition of ":P"
Jun 29 10:32:01 <Khertan> gmail : refreshing rate too fast :)
Jun 29 10:32:02 <Khertan> hihi
Jun 29 10:32:28 <MohammadAG> It probably means "qgil's going through applications and I'm shittnig myself, and laughing it up"
Jun 29 10:32:36 <Venemo> :P
Jun 29 10:32:40 <cloudyLights> oh ya
Jun 29 10:32:53 <Venemo> MohammadAG, so, he told you that he's gonna send you an N950
Jun 29 10:33:01 <psycho_oreos> wow, new one is 16GB and 8MP camera.. what a great change from 64GB with 12MP camera just for upping the memory
Jun 29 10:33:11 <MohammadAG> I wish he did
Jun 29 10:33:18 <cloudyLights> can anyone share advice on which distro using xen to use to start a new vps for scratchbox?
Jun 29 10:33:29 <cloudyLights> to allow me development?
Jun 29 10:33:30 <X-Fade> psycho_oreos: It is just a dev device :)
Jun 29 10:33:35 <MohammadAG> Ubuntu server
Jun 29 10:33:37 <lardman> psycho_oreos: well MPix is not important, strange the drop in GB for the storage though
Jun 29 10:33:40 <cloudyLights> debian+xen?
Jun 29 10:33:50 <cloudyLights> I am kind of new to xen
Jun 29 10:33:52 <flailingmonkey> I'd rather have 8MP camera and 1GB of RAM
Jun 29 10:33:55 <Venemo> well, meego-sb-session start doesn't work for me from HARMATTAN_X86
Jun 29 10:34:03 <Khertan> i prefer the 1Gb of Ram
Jun 29 10:34:08 <lardman> +1
Jun 29 10:34:10 <MohammadAG> export DISPLAY=:2 Venemo 
Jun 29 10:34:15 <Khertan> Venemo, hum strange works for me
Jun 29 10:34:20 <psycho_oreos> X-Fade, indeed though I was a little more hopeful that with a dev device they'd beef it up to the higher spec N9 rather than shoving in 16GB and be happy
Jun 29 10:34:23 <Khertan> did you launch Xephyr ?
Jun 29 10:34:43 <Venemo> export DISPLAY=:2 doesn't make it work either
Jun 29 10:34:45 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Does OBS have "debian.tar.gz" hardcoded?
Jun 29 10:34:47 <psycho_oreos> lardman, then again its funny how they've removed 12MP camera.. ah well
Jun 29 10:34:55 <Khertan> psycho_oreos, a dev didn't need storage ... ram is more welcome
Jun 29 10:34:59 <X-Fade> Jaffa: afaik, yes.
Jun 29 10:35:04 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Bah
Jun 29 10:35:20 <psycho_oreos> Khertan, I was hoping more of more RAM and more storage :)
Jun 29 10:35:27 <edheldil> bad luck my wherigo client is still in pre-alpha
Jun 29 10:35:33 <X-Fade> psycho_oreos: Typically you want dev devices slower and more limited then target. So developers do a better job.
Jun 29 10:35:37 <Jaffa> X-Fade: What about autobuilder for fremantle? Can that take multiple tar.gzs and sticks them all together?
Jun 29 10:35:47 <X-Fade> Jaffa: no
Jun 29 10:35:58 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Well, orig and diff works.
Jun 29 10:35:59 <psycho_oreos> ahh well at the end of the day it is a dev device no matter how you put it
Jun 29 10:36:00 <flailingmonkey> the drop in GB is just cheaper flash chips, plenty of manufacturing savings
Jun 29 10:36:00 <Khertan> psycho_oreos, it s better to have similar specs than the targetted device
Jun 29 10:36:19 <Khertan> X-Fade, +1
Jun 29 10:36:24 <psycho_oreos> X-Fade, not really imo :) you can play with ulimits and what not to emulate the target device
Jun 29 10:36:37 <lardman> Will the N9 have a different camera?
Jun 29 10:36:44 <X-Fade> psycho_oreos: Creates lazy coders :)
Jun 29 10:36:53 <Venemo> lardman, yep, different unit
Jun 29 10:36:53 <X-Fade> lardman: yes.
Jun 29 10:36:59 <psycho_oreos> Khertan, somewhat similar :) its only now equivalent to the low end of N9 if you compare it literally.. and without NFC
Jun 29 10:37:12 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Will attitude_0.9.2.orig.tar.gz and debian.tar.gz work on Harmattan COBS?
Jun 29 10:37:17 <psycho_oreos> X-Fade, lol I dunno about that ;)
Jun 29 10:37:20 <lardman> Hmm, ok, thanks chaps
Jun 29 10:37:27 <Venemo> MohammadAG, http://pastebin.com/dcmEVgx5
Jun 29 10:37:28 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Or is it just attitude.tar.gz and debian.tar.gz which are needed?
Jun 29 10:37:30 <MohammadAG> lardman, same camera on the front, different one on the back
Jun 29 10:37:42 <Venemo> the big deal is, "ERROR: No DBUS session bus found."
Jun 29 10:37:46 <X-Fade> Jaffa: I think so. But we'd need to test.
Jun 29 10:37:49 <Venemo> and the GUI doesn't appear at all
Jun 29 10:37:55 <lardman> MohammadAG: ok, I'm just thinking of the fiddling that was necessary with mBarcode to get the camera on the N900 working adequately
Jun 29 10:37:57 <Venemo> strangely, it worked on HARMATTAN_ARMEL
Jun 29 10:37:58 <X-Fade> Jaffa: You can test that with the ubuntu target now already.
Jun 29 10:38:03 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Ah, cool.
Jun 29 10:38:15 <MohammadAG> Venemo, meego-run
Jun 29 10:38:35 <MohammadAG> or source /tmp/session_bus_address.user
Jun 29 10:38:46 <Khertan> meego-run replace af-run-standalone of the maemo sdk :)
Jun 29 10:38:54 <MohammadAG> lardman, doesn't it use Qt Mobility?
Jun 29 10:39:19 <Venemo> MohammadAG, now the app seems to be running, but the Xephyr screen is still empty
Jun 29 10:39:19 <lardman> MohammadAG: not for the camera no, it requires access to the individial frames, and uses pipelining too
Jun 29 10:39:49 <lardman> video frames that is
Jun 29 10:39:55 <MohammadAG> oh, so gstreamer?
Jun 29 10:40:00 <lardman> yep
Jun 29 10:41:54 <lardman> I'm going to take this opportunity to separate out the decoder parts from the camera parts from the UI and allow the first two to be more easily embedded in apps
Jun 29 10:43:40 <Jaffa> X-Fade: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=24002#post24002 FYI
Jun 29 10:45:14 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Ok, cool.
Jun 29 10:46:28 <achipa> Khertan: Venemo: no plans, Maemo5 was a separate branch anyway, forwart porting would probably require significant effort
Jun 29 10:47:12 <lardman> hmm, so .spec stands for spectacle does it?
Jun 29 10:47:17 <Mece_> konttori writes that you have flash in fennec on N9
Jun 29 10:47:23 <Khertan> :)
Jun 29 10:47:55 <alterego> Mece_: I found that out yesterday :P
Jun 29 10:48:05 <alterego> Looks like some people picked up on me tweet
Jun 29 10:49:27 <Mece_> so... perhaps some about:config hacking would enable it in default browser
Jun 29 10:50:18 <alterego> default browser is webkit not gecko
Jun 29 10:50:51 <Mece_> alterego, ah, right. well, I guess it can't use the same plugin then..
Jun 29 10:51:03 <MohammadAG> alterego, couldn't find flash* on the N950
Jun 29 10:51:26 <alterego> MohammadAG: not suprising, we'll have to wait and see, N9 firmware is different to N950
Jun 29 10:51:43 <flailingmonkey> N950 might not have Flash at all...
Jun 29 10:51:54 <alterego> indeed
Jun 29 10:52:39 <flailingmonkey> I look forward to someone writing up an indepth comparison of day to day use of N950 vs N900
Jun 29 10:53:05 <lardman> I see from one of Quim's tweets that he hopes to send some if not all posts by the end of the week, which means not too long to wait
Jun 29 10:53:34 <MohammadAG> end of week is sunday right?
Jun 29 10:53:37 <alterego> lardman: I think he plans on posting a list today actually ;)
Jun 29 10:53:56 <lardman> alterego: cool, well I guess that counts as before the end of the week :)
Jun 29 10:54:01 <flailingmonkey> from the looks of it, Nokia could keep the base design to use with next gen chipset design... save on the design work
Jun 29 10:54:32 <flailingmonkey> I would not be surprised if of those 530 applicants, many were unqualified :/
Jun 29 10:54:39 <MohammadAG> oh and no libflash* either, just checked
Jun 29 10:55:26 <SpeedEvil> flailingmonkey: Well - tht's retty much a given. Even if it's only 30% or so - that boosts the chances for the not unqualified
Jun 29 10:56:24 <flailingmonkey> SpeedEvil: I only have ideas, but haven't developed for mobile or qt before. I didn't bother applying because I didn't want to waste Quim's time :p
Jun 29 10:57:11 <lcuk> lardman, symbian manages realtime facial recognition on the n8
Jun 29 10:57:27 <lcuk> should really push for similar barcodey goodness
Jun 29 10:57:32 <lardman> lcuk: As in face tracking, or recog?
Jun 29 10:57:42 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: n9 has face recognition too
Jun 29 10:57:49 <MohammadAG> the N900 can do face recognition
Jun 29 10:57:52 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: n950 - who knows
Jun 29 10:57:58 <lardman> lcuk: absolutely, as soon as I see the camera app
Jun 29 10:57:58 <lcuk> lardman, tracking
Jun 29 10:58:01 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: I mean face tracking on camera
Jun 29 10:58:10 <DocScrutinizer> face detection
Jun 29 10:58:12 <lardman> lcuk: as SpeedEvil says, that's apparently in the N950 too
Jun 29 10:58:17 <lcuk> yes SpeedEvil thanks for clarification
Jun 29 10:58:17 <DocScrutinizer> moo javispedro 
Jun 29 10:58:38 <hiemanshu> I got face detection working on my N900 using opencv
Jun 29 10:58:45 <lcuk> and lardman \o notice you re-found twitter 
Jun 29 10:58:48 <lardman> Will be interesting to see how that is arranged in the code of the camera app, and insert a similar component for barcodes
Jun 29 10:58:49 <SpeedEvil> http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/06/27/damian-dinning-on-nokia-n9-imaging/
Jun 29 10:58:53 <lcuk> been a while since september 2009 :P
Jun 29 10:58:53 <hiemanshu> front/back camera, both worked fine, except being a little slow
Jun 29 10:58:56 <SpeedEvil> On the face recognition
Jun 29 10:59:09 <lardman> lcuk: well I thought I'd start doing some joins, I feel rather info starved only being able to use the interweb at work
Jun 29 10:59:11 <SpeedEvil> lardman: Indeed - integrating it into the focus algorithm
Jun 29 10:59:36 <SpeedEvil> Barcode should be an ideal focus target really
Jun 29 10:59:51 <lardman> yep, can't get much better contrast target
Jun 29 11:00:09 <lardman> which reminds me that contrast based autofocus on IR cameras is rubbish
Jun 29 11:00:15 * SpeedEvil continues to check eail obsessively.
Jun 29 11:01:01 <alterego> neat: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N950
Jun 29 11:02:41 <javispedro> moo
Jun 29 11:02:42 <DocScrutinizer> hiemanshu: that'S intriguing, you implemented face detection on N900? cool!
Jun 29 11:03:04 <hiemanshu> DocScrutinizer: using opencv yes
Jun 29 11:03:35 <DocScrutinizer> I'd think some here would love to see yoiu joining their devel team :-)
Jun 29 11:04:45 <hiemanshu> DocScrutinizer: I intially wrote it for RHoK and a desktop, but after compiling opencv for the phone it worked just fine
Jun 29 11:04:53 <hiemanshu> DocScrutinizer: I am working towards actual recognition now
Jun 29 11:05:04 <DocScrutinizer> yay
Jun 29 11:05:48 <lardman> hiemanshu: cool
Jun 29 11:05:51 <DocScrutinizer> ambitious project, true face recog is kinda the holy grail of image processing :-) 
Jun 29 11:06:45 <SpeedEvil> Surely there's a facebook API for that. :)
Jun 29 11:06:57 <DocScrutinizer> haha
Jun 29 11:07:08 <hiemanshu> there is face.com :P
Jun 29 11:07:13 <lardman> how well does their process work?
Jun 29 11:07:20 <lardman> facebook that is
Jun 29 11:07:30 <DocScrutinizer> too good
Jun 29 11:07:36 <DocScrutinizer> ;-)
Jun 29 11:07:38 <SpeedEvil> facebook is scary that way.
Jun 29 11:07:43 <SpeedEvil> They have cues.
Jun 29 11:07:59 <lardman> links between friends?
Jun 29 11:08:13 <lardman> I've not looked at Facebook for a while, other than through MSN
Jun 29 11:08:16 <SpeedEvil> So if your friends have uploaded your email into their contact lists - and it knows your friends are in the picture - it can make a good guess at you.
Jun 29 11:08:18 <hiemanshu> lardman: it can only compare with people that share images, mostly your friends
Jun 29 11:08:25 <lardman> yep
Jun 29 11:08:27 <hiemanshu> (face.com)
Jun 29 11:08:35 <lardman> ah ok
Jun 29 11:08:50 <Hurrian> anyone unpacked the N9/50 root images?
Jun 29 11:08:52 <SpeedEvil> Its problem isn't searching amongst millions of people, but hundreds, or even one, if the friends lists of two people are disparate and only contain you.
Jun 29 11:09:35 <hiemanshu> and it relies on imaqes being tagged
Jun 29 11:09:37 <DocScrutinizer> Hurrian: well, there are unpacked images on N950 :-)
Jun 29 11:09:42 <hiemanshu> images*
Jun 29 11:09:46 <SpeedEvil> hiemanshu: At the moment - officially
Jun 29 11:10:54 <hiemanshu> with all the spamming going on facebook, I doubt people have acctual images of them tagged
Jun 29 11:15:38 * SpeedEvil realises that with time, you can get position to within a degree or so, with observing the sun from the camera on the n9/n950
Jun 29 11:16:30 <Hurrian> docscrutinizer, any chance of someone providing cp -a dumps of the root filesystem?
Jun 29 11:17:34 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: you're a fox!
Jun 29 11:18:09 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: that's actually so damn brilliant... incredible
Jun 29 11:18:28 <SpeedEvil> I wonder if the camera module datasheet says 'do not point at sun'
Jun 29 11:18:43 <SpeedEvil> =do not leave face down
Jun 29 11:18:43 <DocScrutinizer> AAGPS : Astrologically Assisted GPS
Jun 29 11:19:13 <DocScrutinizer> I think that'd be pretty bad as you can not do this
Jun 29 11:21:10 <lardman> startracker could be cool
Jun 29 11:21:23 <RST38h> heya lardman
Jun 29 11:21:46 <lardman> hi RST38h 
Jun 29 11:21:50 <hiemanshu> lardman: something like kstars would be nice
Jun 29 11:21:54 <SpeedEvil> lardman: That's probably really debatable from a sensitivity POV
Jun 29 11:21:56 <lardman> bbiam, have to find an oscilloscope
Jun 29 11:28:55 <lardman> SpeedEvil: yeah I don't expect to actually be able to see (m)any stars for the tracker
Jun 29 11:29:06 <lardman> hiemanshu: I think there is some sort of star map app isn't there?
Jun 29 11:29:07 <SpeedEvil> lardman: You can
Jun 29 11:29:13 <lardman> oh right
Jun 29 11:29:18 <SpeedEvil> lardman: I can see stars in the n900
Jun 29 11:29:30 <SpeedEvil> lardman: But they're of equal magnitude to the noise - pretty much
Jun 29 11:29:37 <hiemanshu> lardman: kstars
Jun 29 11:29:47 <SpeedEvil> even for fairly bright stars. They 'look' different to noise
Jun 29 11:29:49 <lardman> hiemanshu: I meant already ported
Jun 29 11:30:05 <lardman> SpeedEvil: some image processing magic could be performed then :)
Jun 29 11:30:08 <hiemanshu> lardman: havent found any, so not sure
Jun 29 11:30:27 <SpeedEvil> lardman: yes - stacking could in principle work, combined with star movement
Jun 29 11:30:45 <SpeedEvil> lardman: But it's going to be a 'singing pig' type effect.
Jun 29 11:32:06 <RST38h> Wait, are you saying you are going to use N900's camera as a telescope? =)
Jun 29 11:32:06 <lardman> I'll stick to AGPS I think :)
Jun 29 11:32:07 <DocScrutinizer> hiemanshu: lardman : there's orerry
Jun 29 11:32:32 <DocScrutinizer> and there's that other sky app I forgot the name
Jun 29 11:32:33 <hiemanshu> DocScrutinizer: orrery*
Jun 29 11:32:49 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: In the same way you can do fine carpentry with a sledgehammer, yes.
Jun 29 11:33:02 <hiemanshu> DocScrutinizer: stellarium ?
Jun 29 11:33:23 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Jun 29 11:33:31 <SpeedEvil> Orrery on n9 could be quite awesome.
Jun 29 11:33:38 <DocScrutinizer> indeed
Jun 29 11:33:51 <hiemanshu> stellarium on N9 would be awesomer, much more features
Jun 29 11:34:08 <alterego> esp. digital compass ..
Jun 29 11:34:19 <SpeedEvil> Digital compass + accelerometer.
Jun 29 11:34:26 <SpeedEvil> compass alone buys you nothing
Jun 29 11:34:43 <lardman> On the Tab w/ compass, the star maps things are pretty laggy
Jun 29 11:34:44 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: ?
Jun 29 11:34:58 <lardman> may just be poor compass damping though
Jun 29 11:35:05 <SpeedEvil> compass along leaves an ambiguity as to pointing along the magnetic field axis
Jun 29 11:35:13 <SpeedEvil> alone
Jun 29 11:35:16 <RST38h> Speed: You mean, you bang yourself on the head with an N900 and see stars? =)
Jun 29 11:35:29 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: still not getting your point
Jun 29 11:35:47 <lardman> need to know orientation
Jun 29 11:35:51 <RST38h> lardman: Most likely the software having trouble scrolling the huge bitmap in Java
Jun 29 11:35:58 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: you can see stars on the n900 - with fcam, at night. It's just all of the noise is of a comparable magnitude to even the brightest
Jun 29 11:36:02 <lardman> RST38h: lol
Jun 29 11:36:15 <RST38h> lardman: not fucking joking =(
Jun 29 11:36:16 <DocScrutinizer> you're aware it's specified as THREE axis magnetometer
Jun 29 11:36:32 * RST38h has been doing Android development for the last couple of weeks. Pretty pitiful.
Jun 29 11:36:44 <lardman> docscrutinizer: that allows you to know the magnetic heading with the device in any orientation
Jun 29 11:36:45 <hiemanshu> RST38h: no we hit the N900 to the wall, and we the stars on it
Jun 29 11:36:46 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: Sure - and that does not resolve the ambiguity - you can turn the phone around the magnetic field axis, and get no movement of the magnetometer.
Jun 29 11:37:02 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: you need the accellerometer to resolve that ambiguity.
Jun 29 11:37:04 <hiemanshu> DocScrutinizer: it still doesn't give you the actual angle from the horizontal
Jun 29 11:37:19 <lardman> docscrutinizer: or I guess you could rougly work out your latitude by comparing the direction of the field lines knowing the device orientation
Jun 29 11:37:24 <SpeedEvil> (which does not work at the magnetic poles - but that's a seperate issue)
Jun 29 11:37:32 <SpeedEvil> lardman: quite precisely
Jun 29 11:37:39 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: umm yes. gotit
Jun 29 11:37:40 <SpeedEvil> lardman: To within a degree or three.
Jun 29 11:37:56 <lardman> SpeedEvil: well I think our definition of precision differs ;)
Jun 29 11:38:01 <SpeedEvil> Oooh - that would in principle also be a useful thing to feed back to the GPS
Jun 29 11:38:07 <lardman> agreed
Jun 29 11:38:26 <SpeedEvil> Well - it's not completely useless - magellan would have killed for 3 degrees precision.
Jun 29 11:38:35 <lardman> sure, I'm taking the mick :)
Jun 29 11:39:04 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: so make AAGPS -> AMAGPS
Jun 29 11:40:21 <SpeedEvil> In practice, it's going to be locked into the cellmodem again.
Jun 29 11:40:42 <lardman> we may still be able to talk to it via SUPL messages though
Jun 29 11:40:43 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: could we co-projmanage AMAGPS?
Jun 29 11:40:56 <SpeedEvil> Would be neat if it could be done.
Jun 29 11:41:16 <SpeedEvil> In addition to pushing wifi information into the mix too
Jun 29 11:41:25 <lardman> Would be another location method fo add to liblocation :)
Jun 29 11:41:29 <lardman> yep
Jun 29 11:41:40 <lardman> count me in anyway
Jun 29 11:41:51 <DocScrutinizer> are you going to set up garage? or whatever the corresponding meego-harmattan way to kick off a project
Jun 29 11:42:08 <yuizy> hi guys
Jun 29 11:42:15 <yuizy> i have lately been getting _a lot_ of calls from telemarketers. is there a program that could play an audio file directly to the microphone, so that i could rickroll those annoying bastards? would it be easy to create one? (i have an n900)
Jun 29 11:42:19 <SpeedEvil> I don't know how to setup a garage project.
Jun 29 11:42:42 <alterego> yuizy: now that's a good idea for an app :D
Jun 29 11:42:48 <yuizy> yes indeed
Jun 29 11:42:49 <lardman> So just for code repo or do we also need a server to do some info processing>
Jun 29 11:42:53 <DocScrutinizer> I don't even know if garage is any sensible way for meego projects
Jun 29 11:43:06 <DocScrutinizer> aiui garage is in service mode
Jun 29 11:43:09 <SpeedEvil> A simple 'project to add location hints for the GPS' or something would be interesting - there may be some more.
Jun 29 11:43:10 <lardman> Might be worth making a wiki page here to talk about what to do
Jun 29 11:43:14 <alterego> gitorious is the prefered meego project home
Jun 29 11:43:19 <SpeedEvil> lardman: For the magnetometer+accel - pretty much not.
Jun 29 11:43:19 <alterego> It's up to you though
Jun 29 11:43:31 <lardman> DocScrutinizer: you can still get projects setup though, I created one a week or two ago
Jun 29 11:43:31 <alterego> There was talk of a MeeGo garage at somepoint though.
Jun 29 11:43:33 <DocScrutinizer> lardman: no server
Jun 29 11:43:34 <SpeedEvil> lardman: The magnetic model is pretty much defined.
Jun 29 11:43:38 <alterego> May still happen
Jun 29 11:43:40 <lardman> fine
Jun 29 11:44:31 <DocScrutinizer> lardman: the appeal if the concept is it needs no supl or similar online 
Jun 29 11:44:57 <lardman> Absolutely, but we could still create a supl message to pass to the modem, if that's the form it expects it in
Jun 29 11:45:03 <hiemanshu> DocScrutinizer: that would mean storing GBs of data on the phone?
Jun 29 11:45:12 <DocScrutinizer> lardman: indeed
Jun 29 11:45:23 <DocScrutinizer> hiemanshu: why?
Jun 29 11:45:29 <SpeedEvil> The magnetic model is several hundred bytes of spherical harmonics
Jun 29 11:45:50 <lardman> offline storage of cell ids would be useful though
Jun 29 11:46:06 <DocScrutinizer> seems perfectly feasible without online or storing GBs of data
Jun 29 11:46:19 <cloudyLights> min , do we all agree that the N900 gps is bad and the agps is good?
Jun 29 11:46:28 <DocScrutinizer> lardman: go openbmap->download
Jun 29 11:46:30 <cloudyLights> and is this fixed in the N950?
Jun 29 11:47:03 <DocScrutinizer> cloudyLights: N950 GPS allegedly is exorbitant
Jun 29 11:47:10 <SpeedEvil> It occurs to me also that with a phone with no shutter, it's going to get a view of the sun quite a lot.
Jun 29 11:47:20 <Hurrian> SpeedEvil ++
Jun 29 11:47:34 <Hurrian> wonder why they really, really dont add shutters anymore
Jun 29 11:47:36 <SpeedEvil> I've raised a question on camera-safety for the n9
Jun 29 11:47:37 <cloudyLights> lardman: are you coding cellular location now?
Jun 29 11:47:41 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: indeed, that's what I meant with "bad, as you can't do that"
Jun 29 11:47:56 <cloudyLights> but no sd slot....
Jun 29 11:47:59 <SpeedEvil> The designer of the n9 camera is responding to a thread
Jun 29 11:48:01 <lardman> cloudyLights: talking about it, I'm at work doing day job stuff atm
Jun 29 11:48:27 <cloudyLights> last night I looked at netmon 
Jun 29 11:48:37 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: link?
Jun 29 11:48:38 <cloudyLights> I didnt see anywhere smscb
Jun 29 11:48:54 <DocScrutinizer> cloudyLights: takes some more hours
Jun 29 11:48:59 <cloudyLights> It just uses dbus to get signals
Jun 29 11:49:02 <SpeedEvil> http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/06/27/damian-dinning-on-nokia-n9-imaging/ DocScrutinizer
Jun 29 11:49:24 <DocScrutinizer> thanks SpeedEvil 
Jun 29 11:49:31 <cloudyLights> back to trying to install heart beat on centos
Jun 29 11:51:15 <lardman> DocScrutinizer: just looking for a db dump to see how large it is, but I only see the api
Jun 29 11:51:25 <DocScrutinizer> this conversations.nokia.com page is a PITA, freezes for a minute on 97% loading
Jun 29 11:51:53 <SpeedEvil> Hurrian: buttons/moving things are nasty!
Jun 29 11:51:57 <SpeedEvil> :/
Jun 29 11:51:58 <DocScrutinizer> lardman: I haven't looked into openbmap too deeply
Jun 29 11:52:03 <lardman> I tell a lie, found it
Jun 29 11:52:12 <lardman> http://www.openbmap.org/latest/cellular/raw/
Jun 29 11:52:20 <DocScrutinizer> I think there *is* some way to get to know about the db size etc
Jun 29 11:52:30 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Jun 29 11:52:37 <DocScrutinizer> that'S what I recalled
Jun 29 11:52:42 <lardman> ~30Mb zip file
Jun 29 11:53:11 <lardman> wifi is ~21Mb zip file
Jun 29 11:53:15 <SpeedEvil> lardman: It really needs some opt-in tracking goodness from lots of poeople though
Jun 29 11:53:19 <lardman> not too bad anyway
Jun 29 11:53:41 <lardman> SpeedEvil: yep, but if we manage to get it working in e.g. liblocation we could provide some data back at least
Jun 29 11:53:45 <cloudyLights> maybe I can have a ride and add more data
Jun 29 11:54:07 <DocScrutinizer> friggin useless for serious conversations, this page - ohmy it's a blog. SpeedEvil any matchstring for "find"?
Jun 29 11:54:20 <SpeedEvil> for what?
Jun 29 11:54:33 <DocScrutinizer> for that convo.nokia.com page
Jun 29 11:54:36 <SpeedEvil> damian is the camera guy
Jun 29 11:54:38 <DocScrutinizer> you linked above
Jun 29 11:54:48 <lardman> cloudyLights: there are only a couple of available clients atm and one needs to contact them if you want to create and use a custom client to upload, so no rush
Jun 29 11:54:52 <DocScrutinizer> yes, gathered as much
Jun 29 11:55:03 <SpeedEvil> What do you mean match?
Jun 29 11:55:14 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: you said you are in a conversation with him
Jun 29 11:55:47 <DocScrutinizer> you said he answered
Jun 29 11:55:53 <DocScrutinizer> AIUI
Jun 29 11:56:08 <SpeedEvil> I meant he's answering questions
Jun 29 11:56:14 <DocScrutinizer> oooh
Jun 29 11:56:30 <alterego> The anticipation is killing me!
Jun 29 11:56:50 <DocScrutinizer> [2011-06-29 13:44:35] <SpeedEvil> I've raised a question on camera-safety for the n9
Jun 29 11:57:00 <SpeedEvil> search on 'sun' - but don't mention the name here. :)
Jun 29 11:57:04 <hiemanshu> http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24006&postcount=126
Jun 29 11:57:20 <cloudyLights> lardman; btw, wazes may also feed this database
Jun 29 11:57:59 <lardman> implementing Wazes would also be cool and if it could then upload  data that would be great
Jun 29 12:00:12 <cloudyLights> this chap is writing a QT wazes client usng the web API
Jun 29 12:00:21 <lardman> yep I've seen that
Jun 29 12:00:27 <cloudyLights> would be better had he used the C code
Jun 29 12:00:42 <lardman> not sure there is any open source code though is there?
Jun 29 12:00:44 <cloudyLights> surely he would get a N950 
Jun 29 12:01:28 <SpeedEvil> cloudyLights: If applied
Jun 29 12:01:35 <cloudyLights> symbian handhelds sold more when waze was avail for it 
Jun 29 12:02:21 <cloudyLights> curretly there are two navagation programs here for any handheld
Jun 29 12:02:41 <cloudyLights> iGo and waze. waze is free... and more reliable
Jun 29 12:03:27 <cloudyLights> the waze developpers get paid by the cellular companies for the bandwidth
Jun 29 12:03:37 <cloudyLights> cause more ppl used 3G
Jun 29 12:03:51 <cloudyLights> they even released a blackbery client
Jun 29 12:04:12 <cloudyLights> tee time
Jun 29 12:06:58 <lardman> The only thing I want to see from Waze is mean speeds on routes
Jun 29 12:07:14 <lardman> but not sure that's even available, as they suck in the data and then route you don't they?
Jun 29 12:07:55 <RST38h> looks like it
Jun 29 12:08:30 <lardman> would be better to create an open source server that people can then interrogate to get mean speeds along roads
Jun 29 12:08:32 <lardman> imo
Jun 29 12:08:36 <SpeedEvil> openstreetma
Jun 29 12:08:36 <lardman> would be quite interesting too
Jun 29 12:08:37 <SpeedEvil> p
Jun 29 12:08:46 <lardman> do they provide such a service?
Jun 29 12:08:48 <SpeedEvil> maxspeed tags on roads 
Jun 29 12:08:53 <SpeedEvil> However - not live.
Jun 29 12:09:02 <SpeedEvil> And that's legal maxspeed
Jun 29 12:09:18 <lardman> that's useful, but I'm thinking of live speeds as well as predicting traffic flows from historcal data
Jun 29 12:09:20 <SpeedEvil> Problem is to do it right, you need hundreds of thousands of users
Jun 29 12:09:22 <mgedmin> osm also has public gps tracks with timestamps
Jun 29 12:09:23 <SpeedEvil> At least
Jun 29 12:09:31 <mgedmin> you could extract mean speeds from those, I suppose
Jun 29 12:09:35 <lardman> SpeedEvil: indeed, but you have to start somewhere
Jun 29 12:09:39 <lardman> mgedmin: good idea
Jun 29 12:09:55 <SpeedEvil> Many OSM tracks do not have timing info
Jun 29 12:09:58 <SpeedEvil> Intentionally
Jun 29 12:10:09 <lardman> yeah, that's the worry of course ;)
Jun 29 12:10:14 <lardman> when providing any data
Jun 29 12:10:38 <lardman> but that could be rounded to the max speed
Jun 29 12:11:01 <mgedmin> I recall being unable to upload .gpx files that lacked timestamps
Jun 29 12:11:02 <lardman> as I wouldn't want to provide a free speed camera placement facility for anyone
Jun 29 12:11:13 <mgedmin> (such as those produced by early versions of maemo-mapper)
Jun 29 12:11:26 <mgedmin> but I don't know if osm's servers expose those timestamps in their public gps track data
Jun 29 12:12:02 <RST38h> ah, hi, mgedmin
Jun 29 12:13:07 <SpeedEvil> mgedmin: they stripped timestamps unless you say so
Jun 29 12:13:22 <SpeedEvil> but required them, as ones without generally indicated broken GPS
Jun 29 12:13:25 <SpeedEvil> GPX
Jun 29 12:13:28 <mgedmin> hi, RST38h (and everyone)
Jun 29 12:13:54 <SpeedEvil> Some programs simplified the trace _way_ too much, and also diddn't output time, so it was a heuristic.
Jun 29 12:20:18 <RST38h> ...The 7 documented attempts at opening SCP-988 via machine or other indirect mechanism have been stopped respectively by electrical shorts, mechanical jams, and in one case the mislabeling of a bottle of epoxy as lubricant...
Jun 29 12:21:13 <lardman> lol
Jun 29 12:21:29 <lardman> I wonder if they were asking themselves why it was a two part lubricant....?
Jun 29 12:22:46 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, obviously I'm cat1
Jun 29 12:23:31 <DocScrutinizer> though hostmode *should* qualify for cat3
Jun 29 12:24:17 <RST38h> lardman: might have been premixed epoxy!
Jun 29 12:29:54 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Should debian.tar.gz be included in the dsc file?
Jun 29 12:30:41 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Good question. I don't remember, let me check :)
Jun 29 12:32:50 <lardman> DocScrutinizer: cat1/3?
Jun 29 12:33:46 <DocScrutinizer> quim's recent mail about DDP
Jun 29 12:34:29 <lardman> what list is this, or a personal one?
Jun 29 12:34:33 <lardman> I've not seen anything
Jun 29 12:35:24 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Afaik it should be in the dsc. See this example: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/files?package=ruby-fakeweb&project=home%3Albt%3Arails
Jun 29 12:36:28 <Jaffa> X-Fade: What about versions? Is that something which should be included in the filenames (meaning multiple "osc add"s) or should it be <project>.tar.gz, debian.tar.gz and <project>.dsc which are overwritten and updated?
Jun 29 12:37:24 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Also that example. Check what lbt did there.
Jun 29 12:37:52 <Jaffa> Hmm, OK.
Jun 29 12:40:51 <DocScrutinizer> lardman: see hiemanshu 's link above
Jun 29 12:42:31 <lardman> DocScrutinizer: thanks, found it in the end
Jun 29 12:43:54 <Jaffa> X-Fade: So is there really any difference between <package>_<version>.debian.tar.gz and <package>_<version>.diff.gz (if the latter only contained the patch). Will OBS handle both?
Jun 29 12:44:15 * javispedro feels like he needs to audition for the Fringe show after reading quim's ddp f.m.c post
Jun 29 12:44:30 <DocScrutinizer> lardman: yeah, updated my application a bit, as it's probably a hard job to evaluate 500+ applications, s maybe the first sentence should be a eyecatcher
Jun 29 12:45:39 <frals> javispedro: link?
Jun 29 12:45:52 <MohammadAG> any emails sent out?
Jun 29 12:46:06 <javispedro> frals, http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24006&postcount=126
Jun 29 12:46:12 <frals> javispedro: ty
Jun 29 12:46:22 <javispedro> it was quoted  a few lines above also
Jun 29 12:47:27 <RST38h> javispedro: what post?
Jun 29 12:48:02 <RST38h> javispedro: there is another post saying that you need to be an insane physics professor from alternative dimenion in order to get an N950?
Jun 29 12:48:42 <javispedro> RST38h, no, I just find the use of the word fringe ... interesting.
Jun 29 12:49:07 <RST38h> Ah
Jun 29 12:49:11 * lardman is currently looking at fringe lines in interferometric data
Jun 29 12:51:05 * SpeedEvil is currently cutting his fringe.
Jun 29 12:51:15 * MohammadAG wonders what he is on a scale of 0-3
Jun 29 12:51:17 <DocScrutinizer> ~dict fringe
Jun 29 12:51:19 <infobot> Dictionary 'fringe' (1 of 10): a part of the city far removed from the center; "they built a factory on the outskirts of the city" .
Jun 29 12:51:30 <javispedro> see, candidates in the fringe.
Jun 29 12:52:00 <lardman> hmm, how does that definition work
Jun 29 12:52:08 <lardman> doens't even contain the word fringe in the quote
Jun 29 12:52:11 <RST38h> ~dict dict
Jun 29 12:52:13 <infobot> could not find definition for dict
Jun 29 12:52:19 <javispedro> ~dict infobot
Jun 29 12:52:21 <infobot> Dictionary 'infobot' <chat> A {bot} that serves as a common database of information (often noteworthy {URL}s) for users on a {chat} system. Infobots often have a simple {chatbot interface}, responding to key-phrases, as well as to direct queries. Here, in a real conversation, the bot Purl's first response is triggered by the phrase "just tell me", and its second response is triggered by being directly asked "perlfunc?": <eesh> can someone tell me what: ...
Jun 29 12:52:22 <RST38h> ~dict duct
Jun 29 12:52:24 <infobot> Dictionary 'duct' (1 of 5): \Duct\ (d[u^]kt), n. [L. ductus a leading, conducting, conduit, fr. ducere, ductum, to lead. See {Duke}, and cf. {Douche}.] 1. Any tube or canal by which a fluid or other substance is conducted or conveyed. [1913 Webster] 2. (Anat.) One of the vessels of an animal body by which the products of glandular secretion are conveyed to their destination. [1913 Webster] 3. (Bot.) A large, elongated cell, either round or ...
Jun 29 12:53:02 <SpeedEvil> ~dict duck
Jun 29 12:53:04 <infobot> Dictionary 'duck' (3 of 16): Zip code(s): 25063 ;; small wild or domesticated web-footed broad-billed swimming bird usually having a depressed body and short legs ;; flesh of a duck (domestic or wild).
Jun 29 12:53:48 <Khertan> tic ... tac ... tic ... tac
Jun 29 12:53:59 <lardman> what is the zip code stuff doing in there?
Jun 29 12:54:22 <lardman> those definitions are pretty crap
Jun 29 12:54:28 <RST38h> ~dict cthulhu
Jun 29 12:54:29 <DocScrutinizer> lardman: somebody found it funny to add all US zipcodes as factoids
Jun 29 12:54:29 <infobot> could not find definition for cthulhu
Jun 29 12:54:35 <RST38h> Gooood
Jun 29 12:54:44 <lardman> DocScrutinizer: oh, I see, sort of
Jun 29 12:54:45 <RST38h> ~dict 21075
Jun 29 12:54:47 <infobot> Dictionary '21075' -- U.S. ZIP code Population (2000):    19449 Housing Units (2000): 7679 Land area (2000):     13.738824 sq. miles (35.583389 sq. km) Water area (2000):    0.000000 sq. miles (0.000000 sq. km) Total area (2000):    13.738824 sq. miles (35.583389 sq. km) Located within:       Maryland (MD) Location:             39.197119 N, 76.751781 W
Jun 29 12:54:52 <Khertan> ~dict 60890
Jun 29 12:54:54 <infobot> could not find definition for 60890
Jun 29 12:54:59 <Khertan> hihi ...
Jun 29 12:55:09 <lardman> ~dict 25063
Jun 29 12:55:11 <RST38h> OMFG, this looks like a TIGER database
Jun 29 12:55:11 <infobot> Dictionary '25063' -- U.S. ZIP code Municipality (1990):  DUCK, West Virginia All ZIPs for this municipality (1990): 25063 Population (2000):    1150 Housing Units (2000): 636 Land area (2000):     65.398905 sq. miles (169.382380 sq. km) Water area (2000):    0.000000 sq. miles (0.000000 sq. km) Total area (2000):    65.398905 sq. miles (169.382380 sq. km) Located within:       West Virginia (WV) Location:             38.583094 N, 80.940560 W
Jun 29 12:55:21 <javispedro> either way, the way he talks seems like he found most of the applications crap
Jun 29 12:55:33 <lardman> javispedro: who's that?
Jun 29 12:55:35 <javispedro> so chances do not bode well.
Jun 29 12:55:45 <javispedro> lardman, read the entire f.m.c thread
Jun 29 12:55:48 <Khertan> javispedro, ... who qgil ?
Jun 29 12:55:50 <javispedro> or the last two pages
Jun 29 12:55:53 <RST38h> javispedro: URL?
Jun 29 12:56:19 <Khertan> javispedro, application could not be exiting ... limited by qml :)
Jun 29 12:56:30 <javispedro> RST38h, http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3597&page=11 and following pages
Jun 29 12:56:32 <lardman> javispedro: ah I see what you mean, I thought you meant applications on the device, not for the device
Jun 29 12:56:51 <javispedro> ah, I see the confusion.
Jun 29 12:56:54 <edheldil> ~dict 90210
Jun 29 12:56:55 <javispedro> yes, talking about "essays"
Jun 29 12:56:56 <infobot> Dictionary '90210' -- U.S. ZIP code Municipality (1990):  BEVERLY HILLS, California All ZIPs for this municipality (1990): 90210 90211 90212 Population (2000):    21396 Housing Units (2000): 9166 Land area (2000):     9.350943 sq. miles (24.218830 sq. km) Water area (2000):    0.046341 sq. miles (0.120022 sq. km) Total area (2000):    9.397284 sq. miles (24.338852 sq. km) Located within:       California (CA) Location:             34.088808 N, 118.406125 W
Jun 29 12:57:03 <edheldil> ahhh ... :)
Jun 29 12:57:41 <flux> the bot is missing the coordinates for a polygon that covers the area.
Jun 29 12:57:44 <DocScrutinizer> btw scratch my comments about zip factoids, though correct it doesn't apply for ~dict as ~dict is using a web interface or sth to find miriam webster(?) entries about a searchword
Jun 29 12:57:48 <MrOpposite> If I want to develop things to the n900, is that easy to do? (as in is there usable documentation?)
Jun 29 12:58:15 <DocScrutinizer> flux: the bot is missing nuttin, that's the dictionary referenced by ~dict
Jun 29 12:59:05 <DocScrutinizer> and please stop spamming the chan with unrelated infobot queries
Jun 29 12:59:09 <DocScrutinizer> ~query
Jun 29 12:59:09 <infobot> talk dirty to me! Preferably, do so after you have typed "/query infobot" which should open a new window/tab/whatever with most irc clients. You can talk to me all you like and don't annoy other people with endless queries. Be aware that the stuff you write is logged, so don't get too 1337 :)
Jun 29 12:59:41 <RST38h> javispedro: oh well
Jun 29 13:00:27 <javispedro> though one thing is clear: the 250 headcount is arbitrary and probably prone to modification. who knows if it is less =)
Jun 29 13:00:38 <SpeedEvil> javispedro: Why is it clear?
Jun 29 13:00:55 <SpeedEvil> javispedro: I thought it represented a number of devices allocated.
Jun 29 13:00:57 <javispedro> "... depend on the amout of devices available"
Jun 29 13:01:11 <lardman> javispedro: well some of the things he mentioned as not being good: "saying you will develop unnamed and specified apps", "wanting to do a review", etc. seem pretty self evident I'd have thought
Jun 29 13:01:33 <RST38h> javispedro: I prefer not to think too much into this (including the fact that half of my suggested projects are proprietary)
Jun 29 13:01:51 <Khertan> wait and see
Jun 29 13:01:57 <javispedro> RST38h, probably the best.
Jun 29 13:02:00 <RST38h> Exactly
Jun 29 13:02:16 <DocScrutinizer> wtf is a proprietary project here?
Jun 29 13:02:19 <RST38h> In the very worst case, I will simply by an Android device and forget about the whole thing
Jun 29 13:02:31 <RST38h> Doc: Source code not open
Jun 29 13:02:36 <SpeedEvil> Yeah - going through every line of text for nuances that may result from the spacebar sticking is silly.
Jun 29 13:02:44 <DocScrutinizer> why would you want to do that?
Jun 29 13:02:52 <javispedro> SpeedEvil, wrong channel again? =)
Jun 29 13:03:04 <SpeedEvil> javispedro: ?
Jun 29 13:03:11 <crashanddie> DocScrutinizer, most companies haven't embraced Open Source yet..
Jun 29 13:03:19 <SpeedEvil> javispedro: Don't think so.
Jun 29 13:03:30 <javispedro> ah ok
Jun 29 13:03:36 * javispedro brb
Jun 29 13:03:42 <SpeedEvil> I think the idea is that closed projects should be applied for through the commercial side.
Jun 29 13:04:07 <crashanddie> Wait, what?
Jun 29 13:04:08 <DocScrutinizer> crashanddie: I'm aware of that, but why would RST38h apply for a meego develdev if he had or worked for a company that is going to develop *commercial*  (aka proprietary) stuff?
Jun 29 13:04:11 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: none so far
Jun 29 13:04:11 <RST38h> Doc: Lots of very practical reasons
Jun 29 13:04:27 <RST38h> Doc: First, none of this stuff is commercial (giving it away for free)
Jun 29 13:04:43 <hiemanshu> DocScrutinizer: I wrote a small but to the point application. I wonder if I am even in cat 0 :/
Jun 29 13:04:44 <RST38h> Doc: Secondly, half of it actually comes with an open source
Jun 29 13:04:56 <RST38h> Doc: Thirdly, representing myself not some company
Jun 29 13:06:21 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, I can see the rationale about ruling out closed-source stuff. closed-source -> proprietary commercial -> go for launchpad DDP
Jun 29 13:06:43 * jonwil is going to clone the date-time control panel
Jun 29 13:07:54 <DocScrutinizer> jonwil: \o/ please also clone the unbearable time/date selector that looks and works like a slot machine - mere random to hit the right setting :-P
Jun 29 13:11:11 <jonwil> Do you mean the city selector?
Jun 29 13:13:14 <Jaffa> jonwil: If you could make it with time selection like Harmattan, that might be quite cool
Jun 29 13:14:37 <jonwil> well my plan is to create a 1:1 clone of libcpdatetime.so and possibly also libhildon-time-zone-chooser0.so
Jun 29 13:14:42 <jonwil> then from there we can expand
Jun 29 13:14:47 <jonwil> and make it better
Jun 29 13:15:08 <Jaffa> :)
Jun 29 13:15:26 <Jaffa> X-Fade: BTW, did you have an answer as to whether I should be using home:Jaffa or home:jaffa, which are different & separater?
Jun 29 13:15:30 <Jaffa> s/ter/te/
Jun 29 13:15:30 <infobot> Jaffa meant: X-Fade: BTW, did you have an answer as to whether I should be using home:Jaffa or home:jaffa, which are different & separate?
Jun 29 13:20:23 <crashanddie> holy crap
Jun 29 13:20:47 <vi__> where?
Jun 29 13:20:47 <crashanddie> I just received a commit
Jun 29 13:20:53 <crashanddie> 1 character
Jun 29 13:21:02 <vi__> ?
Jun 29 13:21:17 <crashanddie> The guy has been working a full month on massively crazy bug
Jun 29 13:21:27 <crashanddie> the bugfix? 1 character.
Jun 29 13:21:30 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jun 29 13:21:34 <vi__> ?
Jun 29 13:21:42 <vi__> what was the character?
Jun 29 13:21:47 <vi__> ;
Jun 29 13:23:02 <alterego> crashanddie: I had a similar bug I fixed a while ago :D
Jun 29 13:23:06 <alterego> 1 character
Jun 29 13:23:12 <alterego> Was it a j instead of an i?
Jun 29 13:23:36 <crashanddie> <send target="explorer.id" targettype="'xexplorer'" data="'com.consistent.ccenter.instance.phone_state'" namelist="instance_id state"/>
Jun 29 13:23:41 <crashanddie> <send target="explorer.id" targettype="'x-explorer'" data="'com.consistent.ccenter.instance.phone_state'" namelist="instance_id state"/>
Jun 29 13:24:19 <alterego> Hah
Jun 29 13:24:28 <alterego> A - symbol aye ..
Jun 29 13:24:55 <jonwil> anyone know of an example of how to write a hildon control panel?
Jun 29 13:25:06 <RST38h> I have got some code for it, a moment
Jun 29 13:25:25 <RST38h> No, just desktop applet, sorry :(
Jun 29 13:26:04 <jonwil> cssu has some control panels
Jun 29 13:26:06 <jonwil> those should help
Jun 29 13:26:55 <lardman> nice, we can finally access the map data from code
Jun 29 13:27:04 <alterego> lardman: ?
Jun 29 13:27:12 <lardman> http://library.developer.nokia.com/index.jsp?topic=/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_API/html/qtmobility/location-overview.html
Jun 29 13:27:59 <lardman> am just browsing that page trying to work out whether the Qt location stuff works in a similar way to liblocation
Jun 29 13:28:15 <lardman> at least it should be easy enough to add new data providers for the field line stuff
Jun 29 13:28:18 <lardman> etc
Jun 29 13:29:18 <alterego> Ah, right
Jun 29 13:29:31 <alterego> Yeah, I'm familiar with the mobility APIs
Jun 29 13:29:34 <lardman> not many positioning methods in that enum though: http://library.developer.nokia.com/index.jsp?topic=/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_API/html/qtmobility/qgeopositioninfosource.html
Jun 29 13:29:45 <alterego> Got the developer.nokia.com site is getting more and more like msdn every time I look at it ..
Jun 29 13:29:59 <alterego> Just replace the "NOKIA" logo in the top left with "Microsoft" ..
Jun 29 13:30:09 <lardman> I've not yet spotted whether you can set a range as well as a time for updates to be sent to your app
Jun 29 13:30:20 <lardman> alterego: yeah
Jun 29 13:31:03 <DocScrutinizer> jonwil: (city selector?) I meant the ugly nonsensical kinetic scrolling rulers you get when you for instance define the start time of a new event in calendar
Jun 29 13:31:25 <alterego> Oh, those "touch friendly lists" ..
Jun 29 13:32:57 <jonwil> well once I clone the applet, someone can make it better :)
Jun 29 13:33:08 <lardman> hmm that is somewhat worrisome, I can't see how to choose which of the not-gps methods will be used (fine for the future, we add more items to the enum) with the current implementation (e.g. country code from modem, cell tower id should be options)
Jun 29 13:33:12 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, the maximum pita I could imagine for such a thing
Jun 29 13:33:55 <SpeedEvil> http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=23820&postcount=20 - qgil
Jun 29 13:33:57 <DocScrutinizer> lardman: hu?
Jun 29 13:34:11 <SpeedEvil> 'As for today, N950 and N9 have exactly the same security policy, and in fact are both wide open.'
Jun 29 13:34:14 <Khertan> https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17034 <<<< grrr
Jun 29 13:34:15 <lardman> DocScrutinizer: see link above to the Qt Mobility location stuff
Jun 29 13:34:15 <povbot> 04Bug 17034: was not found.
Jun 29 13:34:21 <Khertan> oups ... wrong windows
Jun 29 13:34:33 <DocScrutinizer> aaah QtM - meh
Jun 29 13:35:07 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: LOL?
Jun 29 13:36:00 <alterego> Is there a list of pre-installed apps for Harmattan?
Jun 29 13:36:01 <lardman> does anyone have a link to the Harmattan image package list url handy?
Jun 29 13:36:09 <lardman> lol
Jun 29 13:36:28 <Khertan> lardman, on harmattan-dev.nokia.com
Jun 29 13:36:29 * lardman is looking for more the location library backend
Jun 29 13:36:34 <lardman> thanks Khertan 
Jun 29 13:36:40 <Khertan> there is a link in the bottom to explain diff with fremantle
Jun 29 13:36:46 <Khertan> and so the list of package
Jun 29 13:37:11 <lardman> just what I was after, thanks
Jun 29 13:39:15 <lardman> so liblocationextras or libqtm-location it must be then
Jun 29 13:39:55 <alterego> Hah, http://maemo.nokia.com/
Jun 29 13:39:56 * X-Fade wonders why he can't chroot into his nice Harmattan root.
Jun 29 13:40:38 <lardman> hmm, looks like liblocationextras supplies wrapper over DBUS call to get country code, but I don't see anything about cell id
Jun 29 13:40:52 <alterego> X-Fade: how long until Harmattan obs is up-and-running? :)
Jun 29 13:41:03 <X-Fade> alterego: Well, that is one of the issues :)
Jun 29 13:41:05 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Missing shell?
Jun 29 13:41:30 <X-Fade> Jaffa: It complains about missing /bin/bash, but obviously it is there.
Jun 29 13:41:37 <alterego> X-Fade: is there anything currently available for us? I can help out if needs be.
Jun 29 13:41:46 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Try "chroot dir /bin/sh"?
Jun 29 13:41:50 <lardman> ah ok libcellular-qt supplies callback for cell changes, good, at least that is built in
Jun 29 13:41:55 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Architecture difference and/or perms?
Jun 29 13:42:30 * Jaffa tries to work out what the status of his package is on COBS after adding some build plans. Where do logs/statuses/queues appear?
Jun 29 13:43:01 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Yeah, it is an armel root.
Jun 29 13:43:15 <X-Fade> Jaffa: But binfmt should just pick that up.
Jun 29 13:44:29 <alterego> Urgh, really need to clean up laptop.
Jun 29 13:44:41 <alterego> 20M left :/
Jun 29 13:45:21 * SpeedEvil passes alterego a vacuum cleaner.
Jun 29 13:45:47 <alterego> I think the rest of this afternoon will be spent cleaning up my laptop and preparing it for a reinstallation.
Jun 29 13:46:00 <alterego> Though I need to check to see if Ubuntu 11.04 supports 3G tethering yet ..
Jun 29 13:46:20 * SpeedEvil just wrote /etc/ppp/peers/whatever
Jun 29 13:46:28 <rm_work> alterego: it does
Jun 29 13:46:36 * SpeedEvil sometimes is hesitant to learn new things.
Jun 29 13:46:43 <rm_work> alterego: at least over USB, it was a no-brainer
Jun 29 13:46:43 <Jaffa> X-Fade: binfmt not hardfp aware or something?
Jun 29 13:46:51 <alterego> rm_work: Specifically 11.04?
Jun 29 13:47:03 <rm_work> alterego: definitely did it on 11.04, also did it on 10.10
Jun 29 13:47:05 <alterego> rm_work: because it didn't work, works fine for me on 10.10, but not under 11.04
Jun 29 13:47:08 <rm_work> and the one before that
Jun 29 13:47:22 <alterego> Right, I'm talking specifically about 11.04, which is stopping me from updating ..
Jun 29 13:50:23 <jonwil> Is there a list of various text strings somewhere? i.e. how can I tell just what the string dati_fi_24_clock matches?
Jun 29 13:52:12 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Thoughts, when you have a chance, on the https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=i586&package=attitude&project=home%3Ajaffa&repository=Debian_6.0 failure. It doesn't look like the kind of failure I'd expect.
Jun 29 13:54:14 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Hmm so it doesn't like the debian tarball in the dsc.
Jun 29 13:54:21 <peetah> hi all
Jun 29 13:54:38 <peetah> trying to compile mame 0.143 for N900
Jun 29 13:54:47 <peetah> and I have this error:
Jun 29 13:54:50 <peetah> {standard input}:16125: Error: unknown pseudo-op: `.perso'
Jun 29 13:55:01 <peetah> does it ring a bell to anyone ?
Jun 29 13:55:58 <peetah> 0.142 was compiling fine, but it started to generate this kind of error since 0.142u5
Jun 29 13:58:55 <peetah> from what I have found, this type of errors seems to be a compiler bug
Jun 29 13:59:54 <peetah> is there a documented way to update the compiler included in scratchbox with a more recent version that may have this issue fixed?
Jun 29 14:00:36 <lardman> change optimisation flags?
Jun 29 14:01:21 <peetah> lardman: that's the first thing I tried, removing all the useless flags, but it did not change anything
Jun 29 14:01:31 <lardman> hmm
Jun 29 14:01:45 <lardman> I can't find .perso on Google, any idea what it does?
Jun 29 14:02:08 <peetah> nope: I also did my homework before asking ;)
Jun 29 14:02:42 <lardman> :)
Jun 29 14:02:53 <lardman> I'm afraid I don't know off hand how to change the GCC version
Jun 29 14:03:19 <lardman> one last option is to see if you can disable some part of the compilation, I don't know where the error occurs, building which files, etc
Jun 29 14:04:14 <peetah> a file called inptport.c, which seems related to input obviously
Jun 29 14:04:32 <lardman> it doesn't have asm in it does it?
Jun 29 14:04:36 <peetah> therefore hard to remove from the compilation process
Jun 29 14:04:38 <lardman> sure
Jun 29 14:04:57 <peetah> no, every ASM is disabled by an internal flag
Jun 29 14:05:23 <peetah> at least, it should be disabled
Jun 29 14:06:19 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Ah, lbt's dsc has Format: 3.0 at the top
Jun 29 14:06:51 <lardman> peetah: sorry no more ideas here then
Jun 29 14:06:54 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Ahm yeah. duh :)
Jun 29 14:07:03 <peetah> I have the diff between the compilable version and the non-compilable one, but I'm afraid I do not have the required skills to hunt the guilty changes
Jun 29 14:07:04 <lardman> peetah: perhaps try the -devel list for wider exposure?
Jun 29 14:07:10 * alterego boggles why something like "inptport" would be abbreviated for the sake of one letter.
Jun 29 14:07:20 <peetah> ok thanks lardman 
Jun 29 14:07:36 <lardman> peetah: you really want to save the intermediate file and see what generates that pseudo instruction
Jun 29 14:08:03 <peetah> aloisiojr: because mame devs are a bit obsessed by the 8-letter limits for file names
Jun 29 14:08:25 <lardman> you never know when someone might want to edit your files under DOS ;)
Jun 29 14:08:31 <peetah> alterego: because mame devs are a bit obsessed by the 8-letter limits for file names
Jun 29 14:08:42 <alterego> Heh
Jun 29 14:08:44 <peetah> aloisiojr: sorry, wrong completion
Jun 29 14:08:56 <aloisiojr> peetah: np
Jun 29 14:09:02 <Jaffa> X-Fade: So that's the difference between debian.tar.gz and diff.gz.
Jun 29 14:09:07 <X-Fade> Jaffa: http://wiki.debian.org/Projects/DebSrc3.0
Jun 29 14:09:19 <alterego> Makes sense :)
Jun 29 14:09:40 <Jaffa> X-Fade: I'm getting the feeling that a package will have to be duplicated to target Fremantle and Harmattan. But, weirdly, it seems build targets are cross-project?
Jun 29 14:09:58 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Unsurprisingly, not easy to find from the Debian file format documentation :-(
Jun 29 14:10:37 <X-Fade> Jaffa: You can have targets spanning all your projects. But you can also disable/enable them per package (repository tab)
Jun 29 14:10:44 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Ah, cool
Jun 29 14:11:46 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Yay, it worked better :-)
Jun 29 14:11:58 <X-Fade> Jaffa: *boom* crash?
Jun 29 14:12:16 <divan> Is it possible to create own Network connections in Maemo? I mean, the connections which are shown in Network Connections list. I.e. I manually create route via usb0 and want to use this connection, but network management API do not understand it and asks for some network connection to be active.
Jun 29 14:12:37 <lardman> yes, though how it's done I don't know
Jun 29 14:12:40 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Yeah, but that's cos mud2 (need a new backronym) hasn't done the debian/rules patching yet
Jun 29 14:12:59 <lardman> there was a pseudo connection used for the Bluetooth network stuff iirc
Jun 29 14:13:24 <lardman> imght be on the wiki under that bt pan, etc
Jun 29 14:13:25 <divan> lardman, don't you remember the package name?
Jun 29 14:13:31 <divan> lardman, thanks
Jun 29 14:13:42 <lardman> not a package, you probably need to create a conf file or do some DBus trickery
Jun 29 14:21:28 <dbk> everybody
Jun 29 14:21:39 <SpeedEvil> I wonder if aegis was designed and specified well before the realisation that meego was not going forward at nokia.
Jun 29 14:21:51 <SpeedEvil> Hence its implementation 'properly' on the n9 isn't now a priority.
Jun 29 14:22:04 <SpeedEvil> Which could of course be a good thing.
Jun 29 14:22:09 <SpeedEvil> s/could/is/
Jun 29 14:22:09 <infobot> SpeedEvil meant: Which is of course be a good thing.
Jun 29 14:23:03 <jonwil> what is aegis anyway?
Jun 29 14:23:19 <SpeedEvil> It's a 'trusted platform' type thing.
Jun 29 14:23:32 <jonwil> oh ok
Jun 29 14:23:40 <DocScrutinizer> it *is* trusted platform
Jun 29 14:23:51 <SpeedEvil> In principle it could lock the n9 down quite badly.
Jun 29 14:23:58 <DocScrutinizer> incl all the gory bits
Jun 29 14:24:33 <SpeedEvil> How it's actually configured is an interesting question - quim has said that at the moment 950/9 is 'wide open'
Jun 29 14:24:38 <flux> at least it's is capability-based, instead of simple all-or-nothing based on signature
Jun 29 14:24:45 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, you can do whatever you want, on your device, "but not while running our SW"
Jun 29 14:24:53 <Jaffa> SpeedEvil: That was specifically referring to the privileges granted apps
Jun 29 14:25:21 <SpeedEvil> Jaffa: Apps from the community repositories I thought.
Jun 29 14:25:53 <SpeedEvil> I suppose - true - it might imply you can't compile stuff on device which would be an annoyance, as well as significant ohter restrictions.
Jun 29 14:27:12 <dbk> sip has recently stopped working on my n900.  i have googled for similar problems, and found a problem with /usr/share/osso-rtcom/sip.profile, which i have corrected, but sip connections continue to fail.  is this the right channel to solicit help with this problem?
Jun 29 14:27:57 * DocScrutinizer recalls his question about "signed bootloader concept" back when in that #meego-conference, and the answer which was along the line "that's not covered by meego, every manufacturer is free to do what ever he likes" :-S
Jun 29 14:28:22 <Jaffa> SpeedEvil: Apps installed by the system (once "allow untrusted sources is ticked") if we're getting *really* accurate ;-)
Jun 29 14:28:28 <SpeedEvil> Jaffa: yes.
Jun 29 14:28:47 <Jaffa> SpeedEvil: MohammadAG had problems executing arbitrary executables scp'ed on to the RDA device because it wasn't installed through the package manager.
Jun 29 14:28:48 <SpeedEvil> Even in PR1.0 you needed to enable extras
Jun 29 14:29:38 <SpeedEvil> Jaffa: Depends what happens if you turn that off, which hasn't I don't think been answered.
Jun 29 14:29:46 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: isn't that scary? :-(
Jun 29 14:30:12 <SpeedEvil> Turning it off and on for a dev device is annoying, if you can develop stuff for users easily that will not need to turn it on/off.
Jun 29 14:30:23 <Jaffa> SpeedEvil: Indeed
Jun 29 14:30:25 <SpeedEvil> Or if turning it off does not break purchased content
Jun 29 14:30:42 <SpeedEvil> But only annoying, not fatal.
Jun 29 14:30:44 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: A little, but as long as one can still do everything if one really wants and it's just a basic malware protection...
Jun 29 14:31:02 <dbk> is there a different channel i should join to get help with an n900 problem?
Jun 29 14:31:05 <DocScrutinizer> obviously it's way more than that
Jun 29 14:31:08 <SpeedEvil> dbk: here is good
Jun 29 14:31:15 <Jaffa> Although that raises a question as to whether the N9 will be compatible with any existing DRM schemes. I can't imagine content producers going out of their way to produce Harmattan-specific video contents
Jun 29 14:31:22 <SpeedEvil> dbk: It's just conversation about the future at teh moment - the n900 is the present.
Jun 29 14:31:26 <SpeedEvil> For at least the next week.
Jun 29 14:31:37 <dbk> well i want to fix my n900 now...
Jun 29 14:31:39 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: We still don't know how it's working in practice; only how the framework works and what it *could* be used for
Jun 29 14:31:47 <SpeedEvil> dbk: What's up with it?
Jun 29 14:31:57 <SpeedEvil> dbk: And where are you?
Jun 29 14:32:01 <dbk> sip has stopped working... 
Jun 29 14:32:04 * dbk is in usa
Jun 29 14:32:16 <SpeedEvil> Ah - not likely a hw issue then.
Jun 29 14:32:37 <dbk> no it is definitely sw.  sip had been working and now it does not.
Jun 29 14:32:46 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: quote from manual: ""to disable these debugging tools, simply switch off developer mode in settings. Do NOT uninstall the tools" (OWTTE)
Jun 29 14:33:06 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: manuals have been wrong and misleading in the past.
Jun 29 14:33:08 <dbk> i googled and found some problems with my sip.profile which i corrected, but sip connections continue to fail
Jun 29 14:33:11 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: who knows
Jun 29 14:34:01 <DocScrutinizer> dbk: have you done a apt-get autoremove ?
Jun 29 14:34:07 <DocScrutinizer> or dist-upgrade?
Jun 29 14:34:20 * lardman heads back home as parents are dropping in
Jun 29 14:34:24 <lardman> catch you all tomorrow
Jun 29 14:34:28 <dbk> i did some dist-upgrades but not an autoremove
Jun 29 14:34:39 <DocScrutinizer> that's it
Jun 29 14:34:48 <dbk> ok i will try
Jun 29 14:34:59 <dbk> thanks.  i'll let you know how it works out
Jun 29 14:35:34 <DocScrutinizer> dbk: check http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
Jun 29 14:35:43 <DocScrutinizer> and the thread on tmo...
Jun 29 14:36:00 <DocScrutinizer> # autoremove kills rtcom-accounts-voip-support
Jun 29 14:37:03 <dbk> well then autoremove does not sound like it will solve my problem.
Jun 29 14:37:16 <dbk> which thread on tmo are you referring to?
Jun 29 14:38:50 <dbk> apt-get dist-upgrade fails due to unmet dependencies for sysvinit-utils and busybox
Jun 29 14:40:19 <DocScrutinizer> dbk: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=70875&highlight=sip
Jun 29 14:43:57 <khertan> do not dist-upgrade !!!
Jun 29 14:44:47 <dbk> ok well i did an apt-get install --reinstall rtcom-accounts-voip-support.  now rebooting device. (did not dist-upgrade, but have apt-get upgrade-ed before)
Jun 29 14:49:43 <dbk> ok well now when attempting a sip call i get "unable to establish connection."  wifi is working...
Jun 29 14:54:12 * khertan just got a mail from Nokia ... think was about n950 ... and ... no ... it s about contest for creating java apps for s40 ...
Jun 29 14:54:24 <alterego> Hah
Jun 29 14:54:53 <SpeedEvil> khertan: Got the same one, same reaction :)
Jun 29 14:55:11 <dbk> it seems that the files *.novoip have been installed and sip.profile has been symlinked to a newly created subdirectory called voip-support
Jun 29 14:59:55 <dbk> DocScrutinizer: you still there?
Jun 29 15:01:26 <alterego> I wonder if they're using mafw for media still
Jun 29 15:01:32 <alterego> Or maybe it's grillo now
Jun 29 15:01:47 <macmaN> khertan: lol
Jun 29 15:01:56 <macmaN> im at meego meetup in kiasma helsinki right now
Jun 29 15:02:05 <macmaN> all sorts n9 and n950 promotion going on
Jun 29 15:02:21 <macmaN> few scarce words about meege ce n900
Jun 29 15:02:29 <alterego> Heh
Jun 29 15:02:39 <macmaN> and now pyside time!
Jun 29 15:03:04 * dbk would just like to fix sip on his n900
Jun 29 15:03:36 <dbk> one of the main reasons i got the n900 was for sip and now it has stopped working 
Jun 29 15:04:11 <macmaN> is there some tutorial for sip? it sounds like its something i want, but im not entirely sure how it works
Jun 29 15:04:54 <dbk> macmaN: dunno about a tutorial.  it's pretty easy to set up an account once you have registered for one.
Jun 29 15:05:08 <khertan> macmaN, to be honest MeeGo CE on n900 isn't perfect ... but it s working !
Jun 29 15:05:20 <macmaN> khertan: yeah i watched the loooong youtube video
Jun 29 15:05:27 <macmaN> for the summer release
Jun 29 15:05:29 <dbk> but, unfortunately, for some reason sip (which had been working fine) has stopped working on my device
Jun 29 15:05:51 <macmaN> email-following like 80 threads on tmo, i think im up to date with most of the stuffs going on
Jun 29 15:06:19 <dbk> DocScrutinizer seemed to have some knowledge of the situation, but he seems to have disappeared in the last few minutes
Jun 29 15:07:01 <Macer> argh!
Jun 29 15:07:04 <DocScrutinizer> no, I never disappear, I just may have extended RTT
Jun 29 15:07:09 <dbk> i've been considering reflashing the device as a last resort.
Jun 29 15:07:16 <Macer> this damn g 2
Jun 29 15:08:01 <dbk> DocScrutinizer i reinstalled that pkg, rebooted, but device still says "unable to establish connection" when i attempt a sip call
Jun 29 15:08:18 <Macer> argh!dxcf
Jun 29 15:09:13 <DocScrutinizer> dbk: sorry, I shared all my knowledge about that particular fault reason on that tmo post. if your symptoms are different, then probably also the cause is
Jun 29 15:09:40 <dbk> seems i will have to resort to a flash of the device :(
Jun 29 15:10:35 <DocScrutinizer> dbk: sometimes that helps. I can't analyze anything about your particular problem anyway with a ""unable to establish connection" when i attempt a sip call""
Jun 29 15:10:46 <khertan> macmaN, i install it on an n900 prefer test it myself ... specially my apps :)
Jun 29 15:10:47 <dbk> btw are you referring to the maemo.org thread?  you did not share a link for tmo
Jun 29 15:11:00 <DocScrutinizer> not enough input to make any reasonable decision
Jun 29 15:11:20 <DocScrutinizer> uh?
Jun 29 15:11:24 <dbk> i know what you mean. it does not give much info for debugging
Jun 29 15:11:28 <macmaN> khertan: right, but i think the exact instructions to make uboot work with kp47 was just posted a few days ago
Jun 29 15:11:38 <cloudyLights> khertan: in python hao can I tell if a var wasnt given a value
Jun 29 15:11:41 <cloudyLights> ?
Jun 29 15:11:44 <macmaN> i havent had the resource to figure that out myself before
Jun 29 15:11:49 <DocScrutinizer> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=70875&highlight=sip
Jun 29 15:12:13 <cloudyLights> I mean: if I didnt declare VAR1 ; set VAR1 to have the value 1
Jun 29 15:12:13 <DocScrutinizer> dbk: ^^^^
Jun 29 15:12:23 <alterego> Created columbus gitorious and obs projects :)
Jun 29 15:12:31 <dbk> ok... i was confused.  not familiar with the abbreviation for talk.mamo.org.  thought you were referring to t-mobil
Jun 29 15:12:50 <DocScrutinizer> dbk: check you sip account settings. make sure you're registering correctly
Jun 29 15:13:03 <DocScrutinizer> dbk: (green dot)
Jun 29 15:13:11 <dbk> DocScrutinizer: the settings are fine.  they were working until recently.
Jun 29 15:13:24 <hiemanshu> cloudyLights: if you havent set a value, it should be NULL
Jun 29 15:14:11 <hiemanshu> alterego: w00t :D
Jun 29 15:14:23 <dbk> where does the green dot show up? under which menu/config screen?
Jun 29 15:14:30 <burchr> hiemanshu: me!
Jun 29 15:14:32 <burchr> bah
Jun 29 15:14:40 <hiemanshu> burchr: ?
Jun 29 15:14:41 <dbk> under accounts they show as "enabled"
Jun 29 15:14:58 <w00t__> stupid alternate nicks ;)
Jun 29 15:15:04 <hiemanshu> w00t__: ah ok :D
Jun 29 15:17:07 <khertan> cloudyLights, you mean if a object didn't have a attribute ?
Jun 29 15:17:29 <khertan> hasattr(yourobject,'attributename')
Jun 29 15:18:01 <jonwil> ok, it looks like libcpdatetime.so shouldn't be that hard to clone. Making HildonDateButton and HildonTimeButton not suck on the other hand...
Jun 29 15:19:09 <cloudyLights> khertan: nm was told at #python not to do that
Jun 29 15:19:19 <cloudyLights> and set var1 to None
Jun 29 15:20:43 <dbk> is there a good tutorial on flashing the n900? i especially want to make sure to not to miss any  important data when i back it up.
Jun 29 15:21:40 <khertan> cloudyLights, depends on use case
Jun 29 15:23:58 <jonwil> big thankyou to whoever wrote libhildon-extras1-time-zone-chooser-dev :)
Jun 29 15:24:37 * jonwil wonders what other undocumented maemo APIs have been reverse engineered by the community...
Jun 29 15:24:45 <ThreeM> dbk, yes, search the wiki for maemo flasher
Jun 29 15:25:09 <dbk> ThreeM to which wiki do you refer?
Jun 29 15:25:17 <ThreeM> http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Jun 29 15:25:20 <ThreeM> that wiki :)
Jun 29 15:25:52 <dbk> k thanks!
Jun 29 15:26:05 <dbk> hopefully that will fix my sip problem
Jun 29 15:26:07 <ThreeM> np
Jun 29 15:27:34 <hiemanshu> maemo != windows :P
Jun 29 15:28:14 <ThreeM> hrhr
Jun 29 15:28:38 <ThreeM> for non linux gurus maybe its the fastest way
Jun 29 15:28:39 <ThreeM> :)
Jun 29 15:29:56 * dbk is has been using linux for a pretty long time
Jun 29 15:29:56 <hiemanshu> ThreeM: I know, I was kidding :P
Jun 29 15:30:39 <chem|st> dbk: the you know what you need to backup...
Jun 29 15:30:47 <chem|st> s/the/then/
Jun 29 15:30:48 <infobot> chem|st meant: dbk: then you know what you need to backup...
Jun 29 15:31:32 <dbk> chem|sh well, i've been using linux for a long time, but new to maemo/n900 and it is not quite what i am used to from debian (but pretty close)
Jun 29 15:31:57 <chem|st> dbk: pretty close is the right expr.!
Jun 29 15:32:14 <dbk> but no cigar, as the expression goes...
Jun 29 15:32:52 <chem|st> dbk: you need your $home and maybe some /etc if you modded, the rest is fitted by "backup"
Jun 29 15:32:59 <dbk> i actually even met linus at linuxworld in s.j. in about 1999
Jun 29 15:33:58 <SpeedEvil> jonwil - GPS raw protocol
Jun 29 15:34:18 <chem|st> dbk: neat, I know knopper (knoppix) in person and am part of the unix working group where the LinuxTag(R) was born in
Jun 29 15:34:47 * chem|st pulls the zipper up again
Jun 29 15:35:52 <dbk> so "backup" does not save $home?  that is odd...
Jun 29 15:36:09 <chem|st> dbk: apart of this nasty PA and some other stuff (which is all nasty on a desktop as well) it is pretty much etch
Jun 29 15:36:42 <chem|st> dbk: not all of it, settings and stuff is saved but mods in tracker conf and stuff is not
Jun 29 15:37:47 <chem|st> dbk: so what you changed by hand in $home is not within "backup" and just in case backup misses on some things important to me I backup $home myself
Jun 29 15:38:13 <dbk> what about .mydocs etc
Jun 29 15:38:24 <chem|st> MyDocs is a different partition
Jun 29 15:38:43 <chem|st> if you flash only the root image MyDocs isnt touched
Jun 29 15:39:21 <chem|st> flashing it vanilla you need to backup MyDocs as well
Jun 29 15:40:02 <dbk> which do you suggest?  i am trying to repair borked sip functionality?
Jun 29 15:40:30 <chem|st> dbk: pls elaborate
Jun 29 15:40:36 <DocScrutinizer> flash COMBINED aka rootfs
Jun 29 15:40:48 <hiemanshu> you dont need to flash vanilla for that
Jun 29 15:40:59 <DocScrutinizer> chem|st: his sip stopped working
Jun 29 15:41:13 <DocScrutinizer> ~flashing
Jun 29 15:41:14 <infobot> from memory, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Jun 29 15:41:17 <DocScrutinizer> has it all
Jun 29 15:41:27 <DocScrutinizer> just read the WHOLE page
Jun 29 15:41:40 <DocScrutinizer> info bits are somewhat scattered
Jun 29 15:42:01 <DocScrutinizer> improvements welcome
Jun 29 15:42:05 <chem|st> dbk: yeah just root img and you should be good
Jun 29 15:42:47 <chem|st> dbk: BUT have you tried removing the battery at first? some hardware needs a "remove battery" reset to do good again
Jun 29 15:43:09 <DocScrutinizer> nah, SIP is borked
Jun 29 15:43:13 <bindi> hey
Jun 29 15:43:26 <bindi> what was that CSSU tweak to enable some gpu acceleration for the menu scrolling or something like that
Jun 29 15:43:31 <bindi> cant remember exactly but I cant find it anymore
Jun 29 15:43:32 <DocScrutinizer> chem|st: he did a dist-upgrade
Jun 29 15:43:54 <dbk> i did not do a dist-upgrade.  i did an apt-get upgrade.
Jun 29 15:44:06 <DocScrutinizer> aah, k
Jun 29 15:44:39 <dbk> but at some point, something i installed must have messed up my sip settings or something like that.
Jun 29 15:44:41 * ruskie tries to recall how to make his own fiasco root image...
Jun 29 15:44:42 <DocScrutinizer> whatever, flashing rootfs should fix it
Jun 29 15:44:48 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: ouch
Jun 29 15:44:55 <DocScrutinizer> if not, then your accounts are borked
Jun 29 15:44:59 <dbk> ok i am doing a backup atm.
Jun 29 15:45:00 <chem|st> dbk: NEVER EVER dist-upgrade...
Jun 29 15:45:24 <DocScrutinizer> dbk: nevertheless I'd try with a new account
Jun 29 15:45:27 <ruskie> unless you know what you are doing ;)
Jun 29 15:45:32 <dbk> is it possible to backup to other than the memory card?  mine is tiny and does not have enough room.
Jun 29 15:45:33 * SpeedEvil wonders if the camera uses the mag+accel to deshake.
Jun 29 15:45:34 <chem|st> dbk: just for the records^^
Jun 29 15:45:56 <DocScrutinizer> backup to eMMC
Jun 29 15:46:06 <DocScrutinizer> aka "phone"
Jun 29 15:46:10 <dbk> DocScrutinizer: what do you mean "try with a new account"  do you mean get a new sip account?
Jun 29 15:46:27 <chem|st> dbk: not enough room? my backups are like 32MB and 80MB with sent-emails (which I easily moved to the imap folder and be good again)
Jun 29 15:46:29 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, try to set up your acount from scratch
Jun 29 15:46:42 <dbk> DocScrutinizer: backing up to the phone will be retained with a rootfs flash?
Jun 29 15:46:48 <DocScrutinizer> dbk: SIP problems quite frequently are outside of device
Jun 29 15:46:49 <chem|st> dbk: no
Jun 29 15:47:07 <chem|st> dbk: MyDocs is not touched if you flash rootfs only
Jun 29 15:47:09 <ShadowJK> SpeedEvil, it's likely: accel ? exposure_time/=4
Jun 29 15:47:44 <DocScrutinizer> dbk: yes, eMMC is untouched when you flash COMBINED image
Jun 29 15:47:50 <dbk> chem|st: my card is less than a gig.. it came out of my garmin gps.
Jun 29 15:47:51 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: I was more meaning that you can use the accel + magnetometer to work out orientation and accelleration of the phone. This can be used to correct shake
Jun 29 15:47:57 <DocScrutinizer> MyDocs aka "phone" is on eMMC
Jun 29 15:48:08 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: of video. 
Jun 29 15:48:13 <chem|st> dbk: delete your account "on the phone" and set it up with "new account" button
Jun 29 15:48:19 <ShadowJK> oh..
Jun 29 15:48:24 <DocScrutinizer> dbk: you'll be amazed how small "backups" are
Jun 29 15:48:34 <DocScrutinizer> usually way less than 100MB
Jun 29 15:48:53 <chem|st> dbk: as I said 32-34MB with 300+ contacts
Jun 29 15:48:53 <dbk> chem|st which account are you telling me to delete? sip account or maemo user account?
Jun 29 15:49:05 <chem|st> sip account
Jun 29 15:49:14 <dbk> DocScrutinizer: well i tried to backup to SD card and it did not fit.
Jun 29 15:49:23 <DocScrutinizer> :-/
Jun 29 15:49:28 <chem|st> just like you delete ICQ MSN Jabber or anything else
Jun 29 15:49:32 <Macer> nokia stock is in the toilet
Jun 29 15:49:33 <DocScrutinizer> darn that has to be a small SD card
Jun 29 15:49:52 <DocScrutinizer> Macer: \o/
Jun 29 15:49:53 <chem|st> with the built-in stuff and not on the cmd-line
Jun 29 15:49:54 <dbk> DocScrutinizer: yes it came out of my garmin gps.
Jun 29 15:50:00 <DocScrutinizer> Macer: did trollop say a word?
Jun 29 15:50:23 <Macer> if he did it would be "bankrupt"
Jun 29 15:50:45 <DocScrutinizer> Macer: how much?
Jun 29 15:50:51 <Macer> what did nokia open up at in the before time? like $2 or so?
Jun 29 15:50:54 <dbk> chem
Jun 29 15:50:54 <dbk> chem|st: what is the reasoning for deleting the sip account(s)?
Jun 29 15:50:57 * chem|st should buy nokia stock
Jun 29 15:51:01 <Macer> right now they are hovering around 6
Jun 29 15:51:10 <DocScrutinizer> hehe
Jun 29 15:51:15 <Macer> at their peak they were $56
Jun 29 15:51:19 <DocScrutinizer> $ or EUR?
Jun 29 15:51:23 <Macer> US
Jun 29 15:51:25 <chem|st> dbk: to set it up again "MAAAAAAN", have you tried to turn it off and on again?!
Jun 29 15:51:27 <DocScrutinizer> ouch
Jun 29 15:51:51 <chem|st> get 2 for a BTC
Jun 29 15:51:57 <Macer> they were $15 in may of 2010
Jun 29 15:52:00 <chem|st> no 3 actually
Jun 29 15:52:02 <Macer> and are now 6.39
Jun 29 15:52:08 <hiemanshu> and trollop wants to pay M$ instead of harnessing the power of the community
Jun 29 15:52:10 <Macer> that is a freefall
Jun 29 15:52:10 <macmaN> '
Jun 29 15:52:27 <dbk> i have rebooted the device several times.  not sure why i would want to set up sip again.  all accounts were previously working.  no problem afaict with the sip settings.
Jun 29 15:52:35 <chem|st> after being said dead it is no wonder is it?
Jun 29 15:53:01 <DocScrutinizer> dbk: if you are not willing to set up the sip accounts again, then we probably can't help
Jun 29 15:54:13 <chem|st> dbk: listen mate, it does not matter if it was working before as it doesn't now, so save my time and the hell delete it or flash it, we are or I am trying to help you getting it to work without a reflash, if and only if you want to try it for your own sake
Jun 29 15:54:15 <dbk> DocScrutinizer: i am not unwilling, but i have a number of accounts set up and i would like to understand *why* i should do something before making a big effort to setup all accounts again
Jun 29 15:54:55 <DocScrutinizer> dbk: visit your SIP provider's website to check for recent changes in URLs etc, make sure you got your password and account name, the just delete the account on N900 and recreate from scratch. Then see if the green dor for correct registration show up next to battery icon upper left
Jun 29 15:55:01 <dbk> its not that i don't want to do it, but i would like to know what it will accomplish before i do it.
Jun 29 15:55:14 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Testing the first feature complete version of mud2 (MeeGo Unified Distribution ;-)) on Debian_6.0 target on COBS
Jun 29 15:55:26 <DocScrutinizer> dbk: also you mustn't delete *all* accounts, just the one that doesn't work anymore
Jun 29 15:55:43 <chem|st> dbk: it will fix borked settings "MAYBE"
Jun 29 15:56:11 <DocScrutinizer> or - if you got several accounts with several providers and all of them stopped working all of a sudden - it's most probably an issue of your wifi accesspoint or sth
Jun 29 15:56:39 <chem|st> dbk: you may have a look in the "original" settings file or save it somewhere when it is working again, to compare which settings get borked
Jun 29 15:56:46 <dbk> none of the sip accounts seem to be working.  yes, the "green" dot is there. i still do not believe there is a problem with the sip settings.  something, some package changed something.  i had to edit sip.profile because TEL capability was removed.
Jun 29 15:57:36 <chem|st> dbk: my icq account gets its port borked once in a while, the GUI shows an empty port but the actual settings file shows something like "-2893562137563"
Jun 29 15:57:48 <dbk> DocScrutinizer not an issue with wifi.  i can read email on the device...
Jun 29 15:58:07 <DocScrutinizer> dbk: when the green dot is there, then probably the account settings are mostly ok
Jun 29 15:58:25 <DocScrutinizer> dbk: email mean absolutely nothing for SIP
Jun 29 15:58:36 <chem|st> ??? ok I do not get it... the accounts are logged in?
Jun 29 15:58:36 <DocScrutinizer> SIP is UDP, not TCP
Jun 29 15:58:59 <dbk> DocScrutinizer: i was able to make sip calls from my laptop's sipclient
Jun 29 15:59:07 <DocScrutinizer> dbk: also SIP needs inbound traffic while email is local-originated service
Jun 29 15:59:20 <DocScrutinizer> dbk: now we'Re speaking
Jun 29 15:59:22 <dbk> as i say, sip works from the laptop
Jun 29 15:59:23 <chem|st> but you can neither recieve calls nor make calls over SIP?
Jun 29 15:59:47 <chem|st> dbk: uninteresting
Jun 29 16:00:01 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, dbk please elaborate on what exactly fails and in which way
Jun 29 16:00:12 <chem|st> dbk: is the SIP account logged in on the phone or not?
Jun 29 16:00:13 <dbk> chem|st correct on the n900.  sip seems to be working fine from the laptop, so i don't think it has much to do with the wifi connection.
Jun 29 16:00:16 <DocScrutinizer> green dot is a start
Jun 29 16:00:33 <chem|st> dbk: I was never talking about wifi did I
Jun 29 16:00:40 <DocScrutinizer> I did
Jun 29 16:00:48 <dbk> chem|st afaict the sip accounts are all logged in. no, but Doc was talking about wifi
Jun 29 16:00:56 <DocScrutinizer> chem|st: NAT issues
Jun 29 16:01:28 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: it did work before so, no
Jun 29 16:01:32 <DocScrutinizer> dbk: does the phone ring on inbound SIP calls?
Jun 29 16:01:45 <dbk> DocScrutinizer: the same connection was working fine for sip.  i tried at a different wifi hotspot which also previously worked and no longer does.
Jun 29 16:02:01 <DocScrutinizer> chem|st: AP might got reconfigured, topic uPNP or whatever
Jun 29 16:02:10 <dbk> DocScrutinizer dunno cause i haven't gotten any incoming calls 
Jun 29 16:02:24 <DocScrutinizer> then you should call yourself
Jun 29 16:02:52 <chem|st> dbk: if you open up your accounts on the phone has the SIP a green dot (as the other green dot might have a "!" in it and is still green)
Jun 29 16:03:18 <chem|st> and what doc said
Jun 29 16:03:25 <chem|st> got to go!
Jun 29 16:03:26 <DocScrutinizer> we need to find out if it's signalling that's broken (->no inbound calls), or RTP (I guess that, and it results in calls aborting or no audio on calls)
Jun 29 16:03:43 <chem|st> good luck!
Jun 29 16:03:52 <DocScrutinizer> chem|st: o/
Jun 29 16:03:59 <dbk> when open the phone app and check accounts they all show "enabled" but i don't know where to look for the green dots
Jun 29 16:04:00 <chem|st> o/
Jun 29 16:05:14 <DocScrutinizer> dbk: there's a green dot to the right of each SIP account in that "availability" menu you get when you click on green dot next to battery, then on "availability" in the menu
Jun 29 16:05:37 <dbk> ok the green dots are all lit up
Jun 29 16:05:53 <dbk> for all four sip accounts
Jun 29 16:06:05 <DocScrutinizer> that's good as it means the phone can talk to SIP registrar
Jun 29 16:06:25 * alterego starts pushing code to gitorious
Jun 29 16:06:28 <DocScrutinizer> now initiate an inbound call, see what it does
Jun 29 16:06:38 <alterego> The whole of librxsupport will be deprecated because of the move to QML
Jun 29 16:06:44 <alterego> There's one useful class in there now :/
Jun 29 16:07:25 <dbk> inbound works!  i guess the issue is outbound calling only...
Jun 29 16:07:47 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, so I bet you'll figue what's wrong then
Jun 29 16:08:22 <DocScrutinizer> try setting your WIFI power savings mode to "none"
Jun 29 16:08:45 <dbk> DocScrutinizer: where is the wifi power saving setting?
Jun 29 16:09:12 <DocScrutinizer> settings - internet connections - connections ....
Jun 29 16:09:47 <DocScrutinizer> select your AP, "edit" ...
Jun 29 16:10:19 <DocScrutinizer> at end select "advanced"
Jun 29 16:10:29 <DocScrutinizer> tab "other"
Jun 29 16:10:49 <DocScrutinizer> o/
Jun 29 16:10:59 <DocScrutinizer> cya later
Jun 29 16:11:06 <DocScrutinizer> good luck
Jun 29 16:16:54 <alterego> Anyone got any reasons not to use the Apache License?
Jun 29 16:17:51 <dbk> DocScrutinizer: thanks for the help. at least incoming is now working.  bye for now
Jun 29 16:26:07 <DocScrutinizer> inbound calls are way more prone to fail than outbound
Jun 29 16:27:04 <DocScrutinizer> so if inbound works, well it should be a solvable task to make outbound work as well
Jun 29 16:57:02 <RST38h> Hundreds of girl children in Indore are being operated on to turn them into boys... Such surgeries -- on children as young as 1-5 years old -- are rampant in Indore's clinics and hospitals.
Jun 29 17:07:12 <alterego> So they got rid of all the SDL stuff in HArmattan
Jun 29 17:07:49 <alterego> No MAFW
Jun 29 17:08:00 <alterego> matd instead of pnatd
Jun 29 17:08:28 <javispedro> mafw is there
Jun 29 17:08:37 <alterego> Not according to this it isn't.
Jun 29 17:08:41 <alterego> http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/unstable/beta/Fremantle_Update7_vs_Harmattan_Beta_content_comparison.html
Jun 29 17:09:21 <javispedro> alterego: it is there surely, afaik it's not free/public anymore
Jun 29 17:09:32 <alterego> It got renamed to "grillo"
Jun 29 17:09:52 <javispedro> that's the open fork 
Jun 29 17:10:02 <alterego> rtcom is gone
Jun 29 17:10:08 <javispedro> qmafw is the one in harmattan
Jun 29 17:10:47 <alterego> No sudo?
Jun 29 17:11:53 <_trine> it would be nice to have an app that when you took a picture it would automatically upload the photograph to your home computer over the net
Jun 29 17:12:07 <alterego> _trine: nice for who? :P
Jun 29 17:12:13 <_trine> for me
Jun 29 17:12:24 <alterego> Write it then :)
Jun 29 17:12:25 <_trine> and anyone else who would want it
Jun 29 17:12:33 <javispedro> _trine: google facebook clone has that
Jun 29 17:12:38 <javispedro> (for android obviously =) )
Jun 29 17:14:39 * _trine reminds himself that some guys on this channel are still at school
Jun 29 17:16:31 <bindi> ugh
Jun 29 17:16:34 <bindi> mobile hotspot doesnt work
Jun 29 17:16:38 <bindi> it starts, computer finds ap
Jun 29 17:16:41 <bindi> but doesnt get an ip
Jun 29 17:17:29 <alterego> Ah yes, qmafw
Jun 29 17:17:42 <alterego> media-im-status-updater should work then :)
Jun 29 17:20:29 <alterego> Interesting: http://wiki.meego.com/MIPS
Jun 29 17:20:36 <alterego> Someone seems interested in getting MIPS on there.
Jun 29 17:27:34 <ruskie> alterego, most likely one of the MIPS manufacturers
Jun 29 17:28:10 <alterego> It is the MIPS manufacturer ;)
Jun 29 17:29:18 <ruskie> heh
Jun 29 17:29:32 <GeneralAntilles> What iconography would you folks recognize as a light meter?
Jun 29 17:29:42 <GeneralAntilles> Since nobody actually knows what a light meter looks like.
Jun 29 17:30:15 <alterego> Hmmm
Jun 29 17:30:28 <alterego> A picture of a bulb with a needle indicator?
Jun 29 17:30:30 <ruskie> wikipedia knows what it looks like
Jun 29 17:30:39 <GeneralAntilles> http://thousandsparrows.com/meego/images/proto_lightmeter.png
Jun 29 17:30:43 <GeneralAntilles> Is what I put together.
Jun 29 17:30:49 <GeneralAntilles> ruskie, well, sure and I do too.
Jun 29 17:30:59 <hiemanshu> alterego: I know that guy, fedora contributor
Jun 29 17:31:01 <GeneralAntilles> But not a lot of people have handled them in real life.
Jun 29 17:31:18 <GeneralAntilles> alterego, not bad.
Jun 29 17:34:25 <alterego> Eh?
Jun 29 17:35:27 <DocScrutinizer> bot
Jun 29 17:35:45 <DocScrutinizer> friggin arsebot
Jun 29 17:40:04 <DocScrutinizer> [2011-06-29 19:26:39] <dm8tbr> DocScrutinizer: 'pathin' is a log robot that is feeding some sort of SEO farm
Jun 29 17:41:58 <alterego> What's an SEO farm?
Jun 29 17:42:02 * alterego chuckles
Jun 29 17:42:43 <alterego> Hah: DCC SEND from dfaso [0.0.0.0 port 0]: startkeylogger [0B bytes]
Jun 29 17:43:02 <DocScrutinizer> heh
Jun 29 17:43:58 <SpeedEvil> Saying that start keylogger thing at least used to be grounds for a kline
Jun 29 17:44:04 <SpeedEvil> Dunno if official policy has changed
Jun 29 17:45:56 <alterego> Yeah, well, I didn't notice it until just now
Jun 29 17:46:07 <alterego> Happened 4 hours ago
Jun 29 17:49:40 <frals> bah, everyone not working for nokia got a n950 at meego meet up today ;<
Jun 29 17:49:54 <alterego> Well, there's a suprise.
Jun 29 17:49:56 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jun 29 17:50:09 <alterego> Does that mean they get two if they've applied for the DDP?
Jun 29 17:50:14 <SpeedEvil> How many peeps is that in total?
Jun 29 17:50:21 <SpeedEvil> s/i/wa/
Jun 29 17:50:23 <infobot> SpeedEvil meant: How many peeps was that in total?
Jun 29 17:50:24 <javispedro> alterego: yes =)
Jun 29 17:50:47 <SpeedEvil> No way I could have gotten to SF anyway
Jun 29 17:50:56 <frals> guessing less than 30
Jun 29 17:51:01 <alterego> San Francisco?
Jun 29 17:51:10 <GeneralAntilles> BASTARDS
Jun 29 17:51:12 <alterego> I thought the meeting was in Helsinki ..
Jun 29 17:51:19 <GeneralAntilles> Screwed us in Dublin, screwed us in SF.
Jun 29 17:51:20 <frals> uh, shouldve clarified, everyone at meego meet up in HEL
Jun 29 17:51:25 <SpeedEvil> oops
Jun 29 17:51:26 <GeneralAntilles> Some piddly little MEETUP gets devices? . . .
Jun 29 17:51:59 <alterego> GeneralAntilles: I've been asking for _one_ for our meetups in the UK last week and this monday, but no one can help me :(
Jun 29 17:52:17 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Jun 29 17:52:22 <frals> guess it helps when the meetup was sponsored by nokia
Jun 29 17:52:28 <alterego> Yeah ..
Jun 29 17:52:30 <frals> and it was walking distance from our office
Jun 29 17:52:40 <alterego> frals: why didn't you go?
Jun 29 17:52:43 <frals> i was there
Jun 29 17:53:00 <lcuk> frals, technically you could walk to england
Jun 29 17:53:04 <lcuk> (with a bit of swimming)
Jun 29 17:53:31 <DocScrutinizer> or lead shoes :-)
Jun 29 17:53:53 <ruskie> and gills
Jun 29 17:53:55 <ruskie> don't forget gills
Jun 29 17:54:23 <hiemanshu> and wearing clothes helps
Jun 29 17:56:13 <javispedro> GeneralAntilles: they're going to do FRINGE science with them!
Jun 29 17:56:21 <ruskie> hehe
Jun 29 17:56:26 <RST38h> Funny, Fringe is on TV right now.
Jun 29 17:56:53 <redeeman> hello, are there any n900 apps that can log a route with the gps into gpx files with timestamps?
Jun 29 17:57:04 <alterego> Heh GeneralAntilles doesn't even know what Fringe is ..
Jun 29 17:57:20 <SpeedEvil> redeeman: yes
Jun 29 17:57:21 <ruskie> redeeman, yes look under the location&navigation section
Jun 29 17:57:30 <SpeedEvil> redeeman: gps-tracker-widget or something similarly named
Jun 29 17:57:38 <SpeedEvil> I use it for openstreetmap
Jun 29 17:57:50 <ruskie> I think there's a few
Jun 29 17:58:06 <SpeedEvil> yeah - osm2go too
Jun 29 17:58:11 <GeneralAntilles> alterego, Fringe who?
Jun 29 17:58:16 <GeneralAntilles> Why wouldn't I know what Fringe is?
Jun 29 17:58:18 <SpeedEvil> There is one logger that doesn't do timestamps - I forget
Jun 29 17:58:23 * GeneralAntilles isn't caught up, however.
Jun 29 18:01:37 <frals> http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia
Jun 29 18:01:52 <frals> list of ppl getting n950s ;)
Jun 29 18:02:31 <alterego> I've been freakin accepted!
Jun 29 18:02:33 <alterego> Woo!
Jun 29 18:02:51 <alterego> WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Jun 29 18:03:16 <alterego> GeneralAntilles: you're not on the list
Jun 29 18:03:44 <GeneralAntilles> alterego, :P
Jun 29 18:03:55 <alterego> :)
Jun 29 18:04:13 * alterego edits out GeneralAntilles' name
Jun 29 18:04:17 <DocScrutinizer> :-P
Jun 29 18:04:24 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, the wiki seems a dangerous place for that list.
Jun 29 18:04:34 <frals> hm
Jun 29 18:04:36 <alterego> GeneralAntilles: it's not the _master_ list ;)
Jun 29 18:04:46 <frals> did it say something somewhere about nokians applying?
Jun 29 18:04:57 <frals> ... maybe i should have applied to get a real one :P
Jun 29 18:05:48 <javispedro> _all_ the names ring a bell.
Jun 29 18:05:56 <alterego> frals: no Nokians allowed
Jun 29 18:06:05 <mtnman> hello everybody!
Jun 29 18:06:08 <frals> javispedro: i guess thats kinda the point? ;D
Jun 29 18:06:13 <frals> alterego: it said somewhere?
Jun 29 18:06:18 <alterego> The forum thread
Jun 29 18:06:22 <ShadowJK> Sergey Ivanov gets 2
Jun 29 18:06:23 <frals> alterego: mkay
Jun 29 18:06:29 <alterego> Just Nokia, Quim didn't seem to care about Intel or LF people.
Jun 29 18:06:42 <DocScrutinizer> so has anybody bothered to wc -l that list yet?
Jun 29 18:06:50 <frals> hah, as if intel people would dare asking for one after all the yelling theyve done
Jun 29 18:06:54 <alterego> "This is the first list of accepted candidates. More will come! You will receive an email with instructions on 30-06-2011." :)
Jun 29 18:07:09 <pabs3> alterego: ouch on the SDL, would be easier to port games with it
Jun 29 18:07:12 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer, fiferboy says 137
Jun 29 18:07:24 <javispedro> pabs3: I'm working on it
Jun 29 18:07:26 <hiemanshu> w00t
Jun 29 18:07:30 <hiemanshu> I am getting a N950
Jun 29 18:07:35 <DocScrutinizer> yay, so there's still hope XP
Jun 29 18:07:35 <alterego> Nice Stskeeps got one too
Jun 29 18:07:36 <hiemanshu> http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia#Accepted
Jun 29 18:07:42 <alterego> Oh, and texrat
Jun 29 18:07:45 <alterego> What app dev does he do? :P
Jun 29 18:07:47 <frals> javispedro: what with SDL?
Jun 29 18:07:47 <mtnman> is there a way to configure sip on the n900 so that when using a particular account for outgoing calls it will prepend a default country code?  i.e. prepend "1" by default to any number dialed?  i think this is similar to setting up a dial plan for asterisk.
Jun 29 18:07:56 <javispedro> frals: yep
Jun 29 18:08:10 <javispedro> frals: I mean, it was missing in harmattan
Jun 29 18:08:21 <frals> javispedro: uh, hmm
Jun 29 18:08:24 <jacekowski> mtnman: i just have all numbers in full format
Jun 29 18:08:26 <alterego> pabs3: I think they're forcing us to use Qt and GLES2 to make it work on Symbian ;)
Jun 29 18:08:37 <javispedro> frals: hmm what? :D
Jun 29 18:08:38 <jacekowski> mtnman: with all zeroes and pluses
Jun 29 18:09:27 <mtnman> jacekowski: i don't want to go through my entire contact list and change every entry.  besides it may mess things up if i use a different account.  is there no way to set up a per-account dial plan?
Jun 29 18:09:36 <DocScrutinizer> mtnman: no
Jun 29 18:10:20 <DocScrutinizer> such an app has been requested for several times, but it's not implementable on closed app botch
Jun 29 18:10:21 <alterego> "* We haven't done the 'Nokia employee' check yet. If you happen to be one, contact Quim Gil."
Jun 29 18:10:24 <alterego> Hahah
Jun 29 18:10:31 <pabs3> huh, one Debian guy is getting an N950
Jun 29 18:10:38 <mtnman> which debian guy?
Jun 29 18:10:51 <pabs3> are the projects public in any way?
Jun 29 18:10:57 <pabs3> Bradley Smith
Jun 29 18:11:06 <frals> alterego: lol
Jun 29 18:11:08 <mtnman> thanks
Jun 29 18:11:21 <DocScrutinizer> where's jonwill when you need him?
Jun 29 18:11:26 <frals> alterego: i wonder if that includes nokia subcontractors, because i recognize some names on that list which well...
Jun 29 18:11:35 <alterego> frals: I hope I don't get a job offer in the next 12 or so hours ;)
Jun 29 18:11:46 <alterego> frals: no, not sub-contractors
Jun 29 18:11:57 <alterego> They all have _really_ lame protos (if they're working in that area)
Jun 29 18:12:35 <jacekowski> mtnman: full numbers should work everywhere
Jun 29 18:12:57 <frals> alterego: heh, i guess it depends ;)
Jun 29 18:13:03 <DocScrutinizer> nokia subcontractors should read the general meego DDP rules
Jun 29 18:13:20 <MoonTiger> i almost got my first proper maemo5 dialog box working with all proper controls etc etc ... quite exciting for me :)
Jun 29 18:13:29 <jacekowski> have you heard news that N9 will be first last and only meego device?
Jun 29 18:13:32 <DocScrutinizer> highly unlikely Nokia doesn't offer devel devices to subcontractors
Jun 29 18:13:43 <mtnman> looks like i need to go through the whole contact list and change all numbers :-/
Jun 29 18:14:13 <jacekowski> mtnman: you should have done it from start
Jun 29 18:15:04 <frals> at least one nokian on that list as well -- "ops" :D
Jun 29 18:15:05 <DocScrutinizer> mtnman: export contacts to vcard - edit (using whatever does the job best, sed or word), the reimport
Jun 29 18:15:19 <DocScrutinizer> then*
Jun 29 18:15:29 <alterego> I did have a bit of a heads up though: http://wiki.meego.com/Special:RecentChanges
Jun 29 18:15:32 <alterego> :)
Jun 29 18:17:32 <frals> some of the people on the list got a device today already as well
Jun 29 18:18:05 <hiemanshu> anyone else here with names on their list?
Jun 29 18:20:11 <GeneralAntilles> I've got LOTS of names on MY list.
Jun 29 18:20:14 * GeneralAntilles glares at frals.
Jun 29 18:20:31 * frals slips back in to the shadows
Jun 29 18:20:37 <DocScrutinizer> hehehehehe
Jun 29 18:20:44 <GeneralAntilles> w00t__, not on the list?
Jun 29 18:21:18 <alterego> MohammadAG: isn't on the list
Jun 29 18:21:36 <frals> how old is MohammadAG?
Jun 29 18:21:47 <javispedro> alterego: ow.
Jun 29 18:21:49 <frals> ie, is he underage?
Jun 29 18:21:53 <mtnman> well its fine so say i should have done something from the start, but there is no way for me to have known this in advance of this problem.
Jun 29 18:21:59 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG clearly failed as he had *too many* potential ports on his application list
Jun 29 18:22:11 <frals> (note i have nothing to do with this, im just guessing like the rest of you)
Jun 29 18:22:23 <alterego> frals: underage for what?
Jun 29 18:22:28 <DocScrutinizer> ~shoot frals
Jun 29 18:22:29 * infobot shoots frals in the head with a frozen turkey cannon!
Jun 29 18:22:30 <javispedro> frals: but there's no age field on meego.com profile?
Jun 29 18:22:31 <alterego> He was probably one of the later submissions
Jun 29 18:22:31 <pabs3> mtnman: Michal Čihař is another Debian guy
Jun 29 18:22:34 <frals> for signing some mumbojumbo contracts
Jun 29 18:22:42 <DocScrutinizer> :-D
Jun 29 18:22:57 <alterego> Venemo isn't on there either.
Jun 29 18:23:03 <frals> based on what happend today you have to sign a contract, and if you are underaged im guessing thats gonna be a problem
Jun 29 18:23:12 <alterego> Neah
Jun 29 18:23:17 <frals> or May not be able to ship to certain countries / locations. 
Jun 29 18:23:19 <javispedro> didn't MohammadAG finish college recently?
Jun 29 18:23:25 <javispedro> he's probably not underage
Jun 29 18:23:31 <alterego> He's finishing college yeah
Jun 29 18:23:50 <javispedro> sorry, I always confuse english education stuff
Jun 29 18:23:55 <javispedro> I meant high school
Jun 29 18:23:57 <javispedro> or
Jun 29 18:24:00 <javispedro> bah, forget it.
Jun 29 18:24:02 <DocScrutinizer> ""he's old enough to carry a gun""
Jun 29 18:24:54 <DocScrutinizer> I bet IL army won't want him to
Jun 29 18:25:22 <alterego> Teeheehee
Jun 29 18:25:27 <alterego> I'm feeling quite evil
Jun 29 18:25:38 <alterego> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1041631
Jun 29 18:25:56 <alterego> Just created a thread on tmo about accepted N950s ;)
Jun 29 18:26:00 <alterego> That'll piss off the locals
Jun 29 18:26:03 * alterego runs away.
Jun 29 18:26:49 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: get your asbestos underwear
Jun 29 18:26:56 <alterego> Heh
Jun 29 18:27:08 <alterego> I wonder when the N9 will go through FCC now ..
Jun 29 18:27:16 <fiferboy> alterego: 137, but someone is listed twice :)
Jun 29 18:27:17 <DocScrutinizer> me too
Jun 29 18:27:18 <mtnman> is there a way to have the phone default to a particular sip account for outgoing calls?  it seems to always default to "cellular" even though i have no sim card installed.
Jun 29 18:27:56 <DocScrutinizer> ouch
Jun 29 18:28:14 <DocScrutinizer> I bet there is some hidden trick
Jun 29 18:28:59 <mtnman> DocScrutinizer: hidden trick comment directed towards me?
Jun 29 18:29:07 <DocScrutinizer> well, the obvious solution is to prepend phone by sip:
Jun 29 18:29:19 <DocScrutinizer> :-/
Jun 29 18:29:45 <mtnman> DocScrutinizer: that would still require choosing a sip account.  i want to reduce the number of steps to complete a call
Jun 29 18:29:46 <hiemanshu> DocScrutinizer: are you on the accepted list?
Jun 29 18:30:00 <DocScrutinizer> nah
Jun 29 18:30:14 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: weird
Jun 29 18:30:23 <DocScrutinizer> :shrug:
Jun 29 18:30:55 <DocScrutinizer> I'm evidently no world class app devel
Jun 29 18:31:18 <hiemanshu> DocScrutinizer: I am at a n00b at it too :/
Jun 29 18:31:23 <DocScrutinizer> I just can suggest how t build apps
Jun 29 18:31:59 <GeneralAntilles> So, how many hit lists did Quim just put these people on?
Jun 29 18:32:22 <DocScrutinizer> and my worst problem is I favour solutions that can't get called apps as they work completely transparent
Jun 29 18:32:40 <alterego> :)
Jun 29 18:32:55 <DocScrutinizer> is starhash-enabler an *app*?? I'd say clearly not
Jun 29 18:33:03 <alterego> "these people" ? You're one of us!
Jun 29 18:33:41 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer, I think you fall in Quim's group 3.
Jun 29 18:34:02 <DocScrutinizer> I think I fall in quimgroup1-
Jun 29 18:34:03 <GeneralAntilles> Or rather, level 1.
Jun 29 18:34:04 <GeneralAntilles> http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24006&postcount=126
Jun 29 18:34:31 <javispedro> aka fringe division
Jun 29 18:34:32 <DocScrutinizer> or 0+
Jun 29 18:34:40 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: MohammadAG: I wouldn't worry too much yet
Jun 29 18:35:03 <javispedro> Jaffa: I have to wonder by what definition does MohammadAG fall on fringe division, though.
Jun 29 18:35:06 <DocScrutinizer> figure h-e-n would work without any friggin GUI, just figure...
Jun 29 18:35:14 <javispedro> we'll have to ask what was his application like...
Jun 29 18:36:07 * Jaffa was going to play Devil's Advocate put it's not easy, nor fun
Jun 29 18:36:36 * GeneralAntilles ponders posting http://thumbpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/trollface.jpg in alterego's thread.
Jun 29 18:36:59 <GeneralAntilles> 500+ applications
Jun 29 18:37:04 <GeneralAntilles> means it's easy to overlook some.
Jun 29 18:37:26 <hiemanshu> well atleast 20-30% would be group 0
Jun 29 18:37:45 <alterego> Hah
Jun 29 18:38:25 <alterego> Do it RAGE QUIT TMO!
Jun 29 18:38:42 <alterego> Pretend you didn't get accepted and say how you've been here longer than any one in the universe
Jun 29 18:38:54 <alterego> And if it wasn't for you sleeping with a certain persons wife you would have one already
Jun 29 18:38:56 * DocScrutinizer shrugs and heads out - N9(50) never been the top topic
Jun 29 18:39:23 <fiferboy> I think Quim's thread on f.m.c is going to get interesting now
Jun 29 18:40:36 <hiemanshu> fiferboy: very very
Jun 29 18:40:56 <alterego> I think the TMO one will be more interesting.
Jun 29 18:41:11 <alterego> Hah, I didn't think you'd actually do it GeneralAntilles :P
Jun 29 18:41:24 <GeneralAntilles> That image just cracks me up.
Jun 29 18:41:30 <javispedro> alterego: why, why you had to open a thraed on tmo
Jun 29 18:41:31 <alterego> It's good
Jun 29 18:41:43 <alterego> javispedro: to get my own back ...
Jun 29 18:43:15 <alterego> I really hope abill_uk didn't apply or get one ..
Jun 29 18:44:58 <Jaffa> alterego: What's his real name? Besides, it'd require him reading stuff
Jun 29 18:45:18 <alterego> Heh yeah, I don't know his real name.
Jun 29 18:45:40 <alterego> I'm not even convinced he lives in the UK, though he could from the times he has posted on tmo
Jun 29 18:45:51 <DocScrutinizer> honestly I wonder if extending the functions of the device without installing an icon to start a GUI falls in quim's definition of 'application'
Jun 29 18:46:21 <alterego> I don't think it does.
Jun 29 18:46:36 <DocScrutinizer> which is clearly odd
Jun 29 18:47:19 <DocScrutinizer> better install an 'app' to do e.g. sip calls rather than integrate it into stock dialer?
Jun 29 18:47:38 <alterego> more likely something that is installable through the app store and adds value to the N9
Jun 29 18:48:24 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, probably everything is installable thru app store
Jun 29 18:49:03 <DocScrutinizer> adding value however is a relative metric
Jun 29 18:49:17 <alterego> "Device Bricker 2k" - "Ever wanted to live tyhrough 1999 again?"
Jun 29 18:49:28 <dm8tbr> DocScrutinizer: awesome idea, make an ui for existing functionality, make it look a little differen. presto an app!!!!11!
Jun 29 18:49:58 <DocScrutinizer> indeed, that's the other way round
Jun 29 18:50:16 <alterego> One of the requirements was not duplicating functionality
Jun 29 18:50:44 <DocScrutinizer> honestly, I' wondering if starhash-enabler is an app or not, and why
Jun 29 18:51:05 <alterego> Why did someone get accepted for it? ;)
Jun 29 18:52:07 <mtnman> DocScrutinizer: the app you describe is something i could use (to make sip calls rather than cellular)
Jun 29 18:52:10 <DocScrutinizer> it's clearly shippable via appstore, but it doesn't match *any* of my definitions of an app
Jun 29 18:53:14 <DocScrutinizer> mtnman: ooh, if that's all you need to get happy, that's probably easy
Jun 29 18:53:39 <DocScrutinizer> there's a well documented way to initialize a call
Jun 29 18:53:46 <mtnman> DocScrutinizer: dunno if thats all i need, but it would be a step in the happy direction
Jun 29 18:53:46 <DocScrutinizer> via dbus
Jun 29 18:54:34 <DocScrutinizer> probably you could bash together something using queenbeecon and dbus-send
Jun 29 18:55:23 <DocScrutinizer> click into the widget, enter number to call, press enter -> voila call via preferred sip account to the number you entered
Jun 29 18:56:16 <DocScrutinizer> don't expect this to work for calls from contacts though
Jun 29 18:56:19 <mtnman> i noticed an entry in /usr/share/osso-rtcom/voip-support/sip.profile "Default-cellular = true".  wonder what the effect of "= false" would be.
Jun 29 18:56:26 <DocScrutinizer> nor from call histroy
Jun 29 18:56:37 <mtnman> DocScrutinizer: contact support is important to me
Jun 29 18:56:50 <w00t__> GeneralAntilles: not on the first batch, at least. I'll not panic until the rest are done :-)
Jun 29 18:57:16 <alterego> w00t__: when did you submit your proposal?
Jun 29 18:57:19 <DocScrutinizer> mtnman: see? it's in the details where it starts to get tricky
Jun 29 18:57:29 <mtnman> no shit
Jun 29 18:57:29 <DocScrutinizer> it's never the shiny app that cuts it
Jun 29 18:58:07 <alterego> Actually I was wrong, Venemo has been accepted
Jun 29 18:58:34 <frals> w00t__: what was your proposal?
Jun 29 18:58:46 <DocScrutinizer> so how would I call a package that adds a "use this as default" checkmark box to each phone transport account?
Jun 29 18:58:56 <DocScrutinizer> is that an Application??
Jun 29 19:00:01 <w00t__> frals: the primary point of it (amongst all the other random crap I get up to) was to hack on tablet ux on there, get it running, and usable
Jun 29 19:00:28 <frals> w00t__: ah, i see
Jun 29 19:00:45 <frals> w00t__: madness to replace our AWESOME ui with something as crappy as tablet ux, but i get the point of doing it ;)
Jun 29 19:01:06 <w00t__> frals: I love harmattan, but fully OSS wins every time ;)
Jun 29 19:01:14 <DocScrutinizer> haha, so you also fall into quimgroup1, as I do
Jun 29 19:01:37 <frals> w00t__: i guess mcompositor and meegotouchhome is oss.. ;-)
Jun 29 19:01:46 <DocScrutinizer> w00t__: a new OS is no *app* dude!
Jun 29 19:02:01 <DocScrutinizer> ;-)
Jun 29 19:02:07 <mtnman> DocScrutinizer: easydebian?
Jun 29 19:02:11 <alterego> Just call it a "theme" :P
Jun 29 19:02:13 <DocScrutinizer> neither
Jun 29 19:02:18 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Jun 29 19:02:39 <DocScrutinizer> well, easydebian is a chroot, that's indeed tricky
Jun 29 19:02:55 <DocScrutinizer> it can have an icon and a GUI to start it
Jun 29 19:02:59 <mtnman> do you consider easydebian an app?
Jun 29 19:03:37 <DocScrutinizer> so maybe easyDebian actually *is* an app, while meego tablet UX clearly isn't ;-)
Jun 29 19:03:55 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: you an have an icon to launch the tablet ux :P
Jun 29 19:03:57 <mtnman> so an entire os *can* be considered an app...  :D
Jun 29 19:04:07 <DocScrutinizer> LOL
Jun 29 19:04:17 <mtnman> another example: emacs
Jun 29 19:04:25 <DocScrutinizer> *cough*
Jun 29 19:04:30 * DocScrutinizer hides
Jun 29 19:04:54 <mtnman> it is largely considered to be an os with a pretty good editor
Jun 29 19:05:23 <DocScrutinizer> nah I heard it's a pretty good OS with a crappy editor
Jun 29 19:05:30 <mtnman> ymmv
Jun 29 19:05:30 <mr_jrt> Quick question: Doing my first spot of pointer aritmetic on ARM (N900)...and I'm a tad confused by something. I have a guchar* to a block of memory, and I know the first 4 bytes are an int32, which I want to create a uint32* to. I've tried this by casting the guchar*, and gdb shows both pointers have the same value. However, when I dereference the pointer, I get random garbage. When I look at the memory addresses, the values are there fine. This an ARM align
Jun 29 19:05:31 <DocScrutinizer> ;-P
Jun 29 19:07:35 <DocScrutinizer> mr_jrt: umm, endianness?
Jun 29 19:07:37 <alterego> mr_jrt: probably endianness
Jun 29 19:07:45 <alterego> snap :P
Jun 29 19:07:46 <DocScrutinizer> hehe, first
Jun 29 19:08:32 <macmaN> total score at the meego meetup - everyone in the room got an n950
Jun 29 19:08:47 <DocScrutinizer> mr_jrt: convert the "crap" you get to hex and then look at it again
Jun 29 19:08:50 <frals> macmaN: not everyone... :P
Jun 29 19:08:55 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: wrt starhash-enabler; I think the N950 manual (or certainly something) describes dialling various starhash/USSD codes to access some functionality; i.e. it might already be built-in
Jun 29 19:09:16 <macmaN> lol, yeah excl nokia employees who probably have like 5 of them already in drawers
Jun 29 19:09:28 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: it clearly doesn't and isn't and does not work
Jun 29 19:09:41 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: On Harmattan? Fair enough
Jun 29 19:09:43 <frals> macmaN: i wish, the N950 is *rare* :p
Jun 29 19:09:50 <DocScrutinizer> ooh on harmattan
Jun 29 19:10:01 <DocScrutinizer> nfi
Jun 29 19:10:02 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: Since this was a Harmattan dev programme... ;-)
Jun 29 19:10:40 <Jaffa> For Maemo 5, I wouldn't count it as an "app"; but that doesn't mean I don't get it through an app store or that it doesn't add value.
Jun 29 19:10:45 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: we can hardly refer to our previous apps published for harmattan, no?
Jun 29 19:10:55 <mr_jrt> Well, I'm expecting the value to be 0x00000003, the memory address has 0x03000000 (I'm fine with endianness), but deferencing the pointer gives 0x50331648, which makes no sense at all, endianess or otherwise. :)
Jun 29 19:11:01 <alterego> Actually yeah, you can :P
Jun 29 19:11:10 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: No, but *presumably* one of the criteria is "do we want this on the N9 at launch?"
Jun 29 19:11:30 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: Anyway, I said I wasn't going to play Devil's Advocate. Yes, I think you should get one. MohammadAG too.
Jun 29 19:11:47 <Jaffa> Anyone who isn't a troll and adds value to the community. The more the merrier.
Jun 29 19:11:56 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: I bet they'd want USB hostmode, or they got something wrong with their priorities
Jun 29 19:11:57 <frals> its not the complete list anyway
Jun 29 19:12:03 <Jaffa> frals: +1
Jun 29 19:12:06 <frals> its 133 out of 250
Jun 29 19:12:13 <Jaffa> Just over 50%
Jun 29 19:12:32 <Jaffa> And there'll be other devices beyond the 250, either N950s or N9s. Betcha.
Jun 29 19:12:43 <alterego> Problem is MohammadAG kinda joined after quim left for meego ;)
Jun 29 19:12:59 <frals> left for meego <- ???
Jun 29 19:13:13 <Jaffa> alterego: He and I discussed the CSSU and the cool work MohammadAG was doing in Dublin.
Jun 29 19:13:22 <Jaffa> alterego: He's very much aware (or was, anyway)
Jun 29 19:13:59 <mr_jrt> arrgh. Just realised gdb isn't showing me in hex. /facepalm
Jun 29 19:14:09 <mr_jrt> ta.
Jun 29 19:14:16 <alterego> Jaffa: sure
Jun 29 19:14:16 <DocScrutinizer> the motr puzzling to see moh missing on that list of early birds
Jun 29 19:14:24 <DocScrutinizer> more*
Jun 29 19:14:39 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: aiui he was quite late with his submission#
Jun 29 19:14:54 <DocScrutinizer> maybe, dunno
Jun 29 19:15:07 <hiemanshu> how did MAG get root access yesterday?
Jun 29 19:15:18 <frals> ssh root@localhost / rootme
Jun 29 19:15:18 <Jaffa> hiemanshu: su
Jun 29 19:15:21 <DocScrutinizer> tbh Nokia is late on getting him on board
Jun 29 19:15:27 <Jaffa> Or that.
Jun 29 19:15:30 <hiemanshu> right
Jun 29 19:15:41 <Jaffa> Anyway, ISTR my memory of 770-era default root passwords came in handy :-)
Jun 29 19:15:54 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: Indeed.
Jun 29 19:15:57 <frals> was default on fremantle as well wasnt it?
Jun 29 19:17:50 <DocScrutinizer> tzz, and I forgot it
Jun 29 19:18:02 <DocScrutinizer> well, there's a chanlog
Jun 29 19:18:27 <DocScrutinizer> aah spotted it 
Jun 29 19:19:22 <Jaffa> frals: Yeah - but no-one ever needed it from then on
Jun 29 19:19:31 <DocScrutinizer> haha
Jun 29 19:19:42 <DocScrutinizer> then came aegis
Jun 29 19:19:48 <hiemanshu> ok, so there seems to be a meegotouchtheme
Jun 29 19:19:50 <Jaffa> :)
Jun 29 19:19:52 <hiemanshu> which is for the qt styling
Jun 29 19:20:48 <DocScrutinizer> I wonder since when those N950 are on RDA
Jun 29 19:20:59 <DocScrutinizer> can't be more than 2 days
Jun 29 19:22:01 <DocScrutinizer> when I looked there's been nuttin yet
Jun 29 19:22:03 <hiemanshu> its been a little over a day
Jun 29 19:22:10 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Jun 29 19:27:56 <MohammadAG> I didn't "win"?
Jun 29 19:28:05 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: Not in the first wave, it seems.
Jun 29 19:29:17 <MohammadAG> :/
Jun 29 19:31:00 <MohammadAG> Oh well, /me starts looking at Android
Jun 29 19:32:22 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: Only 130 names have been published.
Jun 29 19:32:57 <Jaffa> And there are other routes than the meego.com programme
Jun 29 19:34:07 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: or you could always threaten to kill elop, and flatten all his tyres
Jun 29 19:34:19 <MohammadAG> Jaffa, doesn't matter, I was in the first 100 or 200 applications, I'm sure
Jun 29 19:34:39 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: when did you apply?
Jun 29 19:34:43 <MohammadAG> And the project was 2 months worth of time
Jun 29 19:34:46 <MohammadAG> hiemanshu, first day
Jun 29 19:35:17 <MohammadAG> I've seen others who applied after me in the list, so...
Jun 29 19:35:21 <GeneralAntilles> MohammadAG, I'm with Jaffa, I wouldn't worry yet.
Jun 29 19:35:31 <frals> what was the project MohammadAG?
Jun 29 19:35:42 <fiferboy> Sounds like Quim has gone through them all and is now going back over them for a second round
Jun 29 19:35:49 <MohammadAG> http://bt-messenger.com
Jun 29 19:36:24 <javispedro> sounds like an oversight to me
Jun 29 19:36:25 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: I applied about 1 week and 22 hours ago
Jun 29 19:36:40 <javispedro> I mean, it's not possible.
Jun 29 19:37:00 <hiemanshu> right
Jun 29 19:37:01 <MohammadAG> hiemanshu, you're in the list?
Jun 29 19:37:05 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: yes
Jun 29 19:37:40 <MohammadAG> oh well, congrats everyone
Jun 29 19:37:57 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: you should be on that list
Jun 29 19:38:38 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: I am pretty sure he'll add you on the re-run now
Jun 29 19:38:59 <GeneralAntilles> I wonder what the distribution curve is going to look like for icon background colors.
Jun 29 19:39:25 <MohammadAG> hiemanshu, if I'm not, it's Android for me
Jun 29 19:39:39 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: and java? really?
Jun 29 19:39:59 <MohammadAG> hiemanshu, I'm learning a new language either way
Jun 29 19:40:07 <MohammadAG> hint, QML
Jun 29 19:40:25 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: well, there is libmeegotouch, and a meegotouch theme on the device
Jun 29 19:40:35 <fiferboy> GeneralAntilles: Problem is most user applications will probably fall into the generic "Tools" category
Jun 29 19:40:43 <MohammadAG> well sociality looks like shit with it
Jun 29 19:40:46 <hiemanshu> a widget gallery using meegotouch which shows up perfectly fine
Jun 29 19:40:55 <GeneralAntilles> fiferboy, we should switch to purple.
Jun 29 19:40:57 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: I am trying to find the way to activate the right theme
Jun 29 19:41:12 <MohammadAG> I'll probably keep the CSSU up and continue to support it, if not, I'm sure someone will take over
Jun 29 19:41:22 <fiferboy> GeneralAntilles: You could easily do that under the "Photo" category
Jun 29 19:42:52 <javispedro> GeneralAntilles: http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/hicg/
Jun 29 19:42:57 <javispedro> GeneralAntilles: note it's nonworking yet
Jun 29 19:43:19 <piggz> MohammadAG: qml certainly makes portability a very minor issue...i nearly have an app running on android...only small issue is it not finding the qml files, i need to stick them all in a qt resource file instead of using the filesystem
Jun 29 19:43:21 <javispedro> GeneralAntilles: and it doesn't do the icon background just yet neither =)
Jun 29 19:45:55 <MohammadAG> piggz, then nothing's wrong with android for me
Jun 29 19:47:22 <djszapiN950> how can I forward the mobile internet to my laptop from N900 ?
Jun 29 19:47:53 <djszapiN950> i tried pppconf and pon, but I cannot connect, google does not load anything after pon
Jun 29 19:48:36 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: so the widgetsgallery app uses libmeegotouch, running from terminal shows MApplicationService warnings
Jun 29 19:49:36 <MohammadAG> hiemanshu, again, new language, might as well use Java
Jun 29 19:49:50 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: nope, its plain Qt
Jun 29 19:50:02 <MohammadAG> anyway, rant over, I just felt like I was fucked in the ass
Jun 29 19:50:08 <djszapiN950> it is plain libmeegotouch....
Jun 29 19:50:18 <hiemanshu> meegotouch-demos-widgetsgallery is plain libmeegotouch
Jun 29 19:50:22 <hiemanshu> which is plain Qt, just themed
Jun 29 19:50:29 <djszapiN950> not plain qt...
Jun 29 19:50:42 <MohammadAG> no, not Qt
Jun 29 19:50:47 <MohammadAG> it's not portable
Jun 29 19:50:51 <MohammadAG> anyway, bbl at night
Jun 29 19:51:11 <djszapiN950> hiemanshu nope
Jun 29 19:51:25 <djszapiN950> well, kde is also plain qt then
Jun 29 19:51:26 <hiemanshu> well there seems to be a theme for it
Jun 29 19:51:56 <hiemanshu> djszapiN950: ah ok
Jun 29 19:52:15 <hiemanshu> djszapiN950: well plain Qt = no QML
Jun 29 19:52:47 <djszapiN950> gtk is plain qt then :)
Jun 29 19:52:49 <djszapiN950> no qml :P
Jun 29 19:55:03 <hiemanshu> djszapiN950: so is wxWidgets :P
Jun 29 19:55:37 <djszapiN950> anybody any idea for ppp issues ?
Jun 29 19:56:56 <hiemanshu> djszapiN950: use something like mobilehotspot to setup a Wi-Fi hotspot to use
Jun 29 19:57:24 <djszapiN950> cept that it does not work
Jun 29 19:57:47 <djszapiN950> and nope, I would like to use ppp
Jun 29 19:58:03 <djszapiN950> mhs and wep is not enough....
Jun 29 20:17:49 <Venemo> it is outrageous that they don't give an N950 to MohammadAG
Jun 29 20:18:32 <GeneralAntilles> It hasn't been decided yet.
Jun 29 20:18:39 <frals> its not the final list
Jun 29 20:18:42 <frals> *sigh*
Jun 29 20:20:39 <macmaN> yeah 114 people still to go
Jun 29 20:20:46 <macmaN> im pretty sure MohammadAG is gonna get it
Jun 29 20:21:03 <frals> more since people on the list got device today and at least one is a nokian
Jun 29 20:21:03 <macmaN> after all, he is THE man
Jun 29 20:21:27 <Venemo> ~MohammadAG
Jun 29 20:21:28 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, mohammadag is your father
Jun 29 20:21:34 <Venemo> seeM
Jun 29 20:21:51 <Venemo> well anyway, I'm crossing my fingers for him :)
Jun 29 20:25:16 <trx> ive seen the list just now
Jun 29 20:25:20 <trx> congrats Venemo
Jun 29 20:25:45 <Venemo> thanks trx
Jun 29 20:32:54 <SpeedEvil> Where is this list? I was assuming Quims devkit thread - but seems not
Jun 29 20:33:43 <frals> on the wikipage linked in the thread
Jun 29 20:33:44 <GAN900> Wiki
Jun 29 20:33:47 <frals> *just lost the link*
Jun 29 20:34:06 <frals> SpeedEvil: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia
Jun 29 20:34:15 <SpeedEvil> ah - right
Jun 29 20:35:08 <SpeedEvil> Some worthy names that I recognise on the list
Jun 29 20:35:37 <frals> hmm, is zehkjotah (sic) a dev? isnt he like, blogger? :o
Jun 29 20:36:15 <alterego> He's a dev
Jun 29 20:36:22 <alterego> Does some work for Intel 
Jun 29 20:37:19 <frals> ok
Jun 29 20:37:22 <DocScrutinizer> isn't that zehjotkah?
Jun 29 20:37:32 <frals> ye, thats the one i meant
Jun 29 20:37:45 <SpeedEvil> Ken-Young, lcuk, stskeeps jump out at a first read of the list, who do seem to be 'clear cases' - to me.
Jun 29 20:37:46 <MohammadAG> alterego, afaik it's community work, not devel
Jun 29 20:38:05 <MohammadAG> could be wrong
Jun 29 20:38:14 <DocScrutinizer> stskeeps? not really, he should get a device directly
Jun 29 20:38:19 <SpeedEvil> I don't know many of the names I guess.
Jun 29 20:38:31 <frals> lots of names on that list i never heard of
Jun 29 20:38:53 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: True - I'd have thought.
Jun 29 20:39:01 <DocScrutinizer> honestly I thought stskeeps is a "Nokian"
Jun 29 20:39:05 <SpeedEvil> frals: yup - I wonder how many of them we know by nick.
Jun 29 20:39:08 <SpeedEvil> I thought he was too.
Jun 29 20:39:13 <frals> hes not
Jun 29 20:39:14 <SpeedEvil> It can be so hard to work out.
Jun 29 20:39:17 <frals> subcontractor afaik
Jun 29 20:39:42 <DocScrutinizer> so what? subcontractors are supposed to go launchpad DDP
Jun 29 20:39:44 <frals> (last i heard he had his own company or something like that)
Jun 29 20:40:08 <frals> DocScrutinizer: why?
Jun 29 20:40:21 <frals> they just happen to work for a company doing business with nokia
Jun 29 20:40:36 <DocScrutinizer> because 90% of the devices are for subcontractors
Jun 29 20:41:49 <frals> i dont think i follow
Jun 29 20:42:28 <frals> i assume they are getting the devices for their own time hobby oss projects and not because of what they do for a living
Jun 29 20:42:50 <frals> and the launchpad DDP are meant for people who are doing what they do for their company
Jun 29 20:42:58 <DocScrutinizer> so what's it then what stskeeps is doing for a living for Nokia?
Jun 29 20:43:51 <frals> i have no idea if hes even actually on a contract with nokia anymore, last i saw he was doing some meego-arm stuff
Jun 29 20:43:58 <DocScrutinizer> I don't think they hired (or subcontracted) him for betatesting headsets
Jun 29 20:44:34 <DocScrutinizer> meh, nm
Jun 29 20:45:32 <frals> anyway, im sure some of the names on that list could get a device without going through that program, no arguing there
Jun 29 20:45:59 <frals> (note personal opinion and all that, i actually have no insight in the process here)
Jun 29 20:46:22 <SpeedEvil> I'd hesitate to say stskeeps shouldn't get another device, even if he had one already. :)
Jun 29 20:47:03 <SpeedEvil> There is a note on there 'please note we haven't checked these people aren't with nokia or something.
Jun 29 20:47:14 <DocScrutinizer> I'm not saying he shouldn't get, I suggest he uses beter channels than this program
Jun 29 20:48:30 <alterego> Not realy
Jun 29 20:48:58 <alterego> He subcontracts through Nomovok, he has an early prototype, but he's not sure about whether he's still got a contract.
Jun 29 20:49:01 <alterego> (soon)
Jun 29 20:49:06 <alterego> Think it expires in a few monthsl
Jun 29 20:52:15 <frals> well... i have a feeling its the same for most nokians and we are excluded for some reason :P
Jun 29 20:54:29 <frals> anyways, off to dream about managers yelling about bugs, gnite!
Jun 29 20:54:46 <MohammadAG> meh who am I kidding, Android sucks balls
Jun 29 20:56:58 <Jaffa> frals: And if you're laid off, you "forget" to bring it in on your last day to give back ;-)
Jun 29 20:57:12 <MohammadAG> night frals
Jun 29 20:57:34 <X-Fade> Jaffa: OBS experiments going well?
Jun 29 20:58:19 <Jaffa> X-Fade: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24047&postcount=15 has a script which gets stuff in to OBSable packages. And I understand more about how OBS works so I can update the Getting_started_with_OBS wiki page
Jun 29 20:58:38 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Basically the Debian build got through to going "hang on, your build-depends are shit"
Jun 29 20:58:47 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Which I take to be a *very* good sign :-)
Jun 29 20:58:47 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Ok, that is a really good step.
Jun 29 20:59:12 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Yeah, if you get past that part, then the rest is your crappy code :D
Jun 29 20:59:19 <Jaffa> X-Fade: :)
Jun 29 20:59:27 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Get past your chroot problem?
Jun 29 20:59:29 <X-Fade> Jaffa: But anyway, good news.
Jun 29 20:59:41 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Well, I made progress.
Jun 29 21:00:10 <X-Fade> Jaffa: The Harmattan target starts the bootstrapping process now. It just fails installing some dependency.
Jun 29 21:00:38 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Need to debug that more. Possibly aegis related :)
Jun 29 21:00:50 <Jaffa> X-Fade: No doubt. All Harmattan problems will be blamed on Aegis
Jun 29 21:01:12 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: BTW, with BT Messenger I can see some cool NFC stuff being nice - tap a device which is already part of the mesh and you join it
Jun 29 21:01:20 <javispedro> X-Fade: Doing that on your own? Good luck! :P
Jun 29 21:01:37 <X-Fade> Jaffa: But now at least it doesn't seem hopeless atm.
Jun 29 21:01:51 <javispedro> the aegis hooks during package building sounded übercomplex
Jun 29 21:02:01 <X-Fade> javispedro: Yes, one man job :)
Jun 29 21:02:20 <X-Fade> javispedro: Well atm it is rather LOUD in terms of warnings :)
Jun 29 21:02:46 <SpeedEvil> Jaffa: Is there any detailed documentation on the NFC? - as it interfaces to the outside world. I.E. 'speaks ISO14443A/B, ISO...'
Jun 29 21:02:51 <MohammadAG> Jaffa, well, someone will have to pick it up if I'm not on the list ;)
Jun 29 21:02:57 <MohammadAG> you're welcome to do so
Jun 29 21:03:20 <Jaffa> SpeedEvil: I have no idea how on earth different NFC devices communicate
Jun 29 21:03:22 <mece> MohammadAG, I wouldn't worry... :)
Jun 29 21:03:33 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: Patience, my padawan learner.
Jun 29 21:03:37 <javispedro> MohammadAG: man, from all the people that have been omitted from the list, you're the only one who a) half of the channel has said you deserve one b ) half of TMO has said you deserve one.
Jun 29 21:03:58 <MohammadAG> Jaffa, was just pissed an hour ago, ignore the rant
Jun 29 21:04:10 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: Don't fear, there are other ways to get you one.
Jun 29 21:04:22 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, not looking into them ;)
Jun 29 21:04:31 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: But just wait for this round and we'll see what happens.
Jun 29 21:04:33 <javispedro> MohammadAG: so, I wouldn't worry =) I'm sure Jaffa will send you his =)
Jun 29 21:04:33 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: You won't need to.
Jun 29 21:04:36 <MohammadAG> I'd rather get one the same way everyone did
Jun 29 21:05:02 <MohammadAG> not through developer.nokia.com :P
Jun 29 21:05:09 <MohammadAG> Anyway, there's tomorrow
Jun 29 21:05:14 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: It's all the same place.
Jun 29 21:05:22 <MoonTiger> is QSqlQuery binding really as broken as it appears to be with sqlite?
Jun 29 21:05:25 <mece> MohammadAG, but then you wont get the special MAG edition version, with rocket boosters
Jun 29 21:05:31 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: All Quim's doing is setting up the provisioning with Ronan & developer.nokia.com.
Jun 29 21:05:38 <X-Fade> There are just multiple people with a stack of phones. Doesn't matter where it comes from.
Jun 29 21:05:49 <MohammadAG> mece, no lasers? pfft
Jun 29 21:05:52 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: There's the Qt Ambassadors, which is a developer.nokia.com programme.
Jun 29 21:06:12 <MohammadAG> I'm no ambassador :p
Jun 29 21:06:13 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: As X-Fade says, there's a bunch of phones to give out.
Jun 29 21:06:17 <mece> MohammadAG, well I didn't think lasers needed mentioning. Who'd want a phone without lasers??
Jun 29 21:06:28 <MohammadAG> Again, will wait for tomorrow
Jun 29 21:06:56 <Jaffa> Anyway, I'm amazed the TMO crowd think you should have one. CSSU will take a back seat to Harmattan development and all the N900 owners will be screwed.
Jun 29 21:07:09 <javispedro> Jaffa: ssshhhh!!
Jun 29 21:07:13 <mece> LOL
Jun 29 21:07:15 <MohammadAG> you'd be surprised :p
Jun 29 21:07:32 <X-Fade> We should seriously think about a CSSU for Harmattan though..
Jun 29 21:07:38 <MohammadAG> I'm not killing the CSSU, whether I get an N950, or turn to Android
Jun 29 21:07:43 <mece> X-Fade, hear hear
Jun 29 21:07:49 <MohammadAG> the latter seems to be something I would do if I'm drunk
Jun 29 21:08:12 <SpeedEvil> X-Fade: I suppose how important it is depends on how the n950 is configured. But I can't imagine it's going to be that more open than the n900 that the importance fades away.
Jun 29 21:08:38 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, getting a CSSU won't be easy
Jun 29 21:08:45 <Sc0rpius> don't turn to Android
Jun 29 21:08:49 <Sc0rpius> I have an Android tablet
Jun 29 21:08:51 <Sc0rpius> and I want to kill it
Jun 29 21:08:55 <MohammadAG> remember the thing we all know and love? starts with Aegis
Jun 29 21:08:57 <mece> MohammadAG, new lockscreen looks ace btw!
Jun 29 21:08:59 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: Oh, there are ways :)
Jun 29 21:09:00 <Sc0rpius> I wish I could put Debian on it
Jun 29 21:09:03 <SpeedEvil> I guess that the 'reverse engineering' that's been done for the n900 at least sets the scenes for the general idea behind getting under teh skin of the n950
Jun 29 21:09:03 * Jaffa has just remembered one of his Harmattan app ideas that he missed off his application. (Event feed notifications of train platforms with some geolocation awareness and configuration of your regular journey)
Jun 29 21:09:16 <RST38h> Sc0rpius:Send it over here I will kill it for you
Jun 29 21:09:35 <mece> Sc0rpius, which tablet?
Jun 29 21:09:36 <Sc0rpius> :)
Jun 29 21:09:37 <javispedro> RST38h: the tentacled one will not forgive you for that
Jun 29 21:09:55 <Sc0rpius> it's a Coby Kyros MID7015, one of those cheap chinese 7" tablets
Jun 29 21:09:59 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, dpkg -r aegis* is one
Jun 29 21:10:08 <RST38h> javispedro:he is ok about it, having recently eaten
Jun 29 21:10:26 <MohammadAG> :p
Jun 29 21:10:28 <Sc0rpius> Android is slow, and lack of a real multitasking annoys me
Jun 29 21:10:38 <javispedro> poor openSL es committee
Jun 29 21:10:48 <mece> the bypassing/removing aegis must be top priority for the community.
Jun 29 21:10:48 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: We'll discuss it when you have one in hands :)
Jun 29 21:11:02 <RST38h> javispedro: why do you think these madmen are poor?
Jun 29 21:11:18 <Jaffa> mece: Not if doing so cripples functionality :-/
Jun 29 21:11:30 <SpeedEvil> Virtualise aegis!
Jun 29 21:11:31 <mece> Jaffa, well that's the hard part isn't it?
Jun 29 21:11:35 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, s/when/if/ :P
Jun 29 21:11:42 * javispedro hits MohammadAG 
Jun 29 21:11:56 * mece pats MohammadAG on the back *there there* don't worry
Jun 29 21:12:01 <X-Fade> I have a feeling that agis is not too bad for us atm, but that is all I'm going to say about that. :D
Jun 29 21:12:04 <Jaffa> mece: Getting rid of it is easy: go to open mode and set the policy to be unrestricted. What that means in terms of functionality...
Jun 29 21:12:08 <Jaffa> X-Fade: +1
Jun 29 21:12:12 * MohammadAG cries on mece's shoulder
Jun 29 21:12:29 <mece> Jaffa, well that's why it needs to be bypassed and not removed..
Jun 29 21:12:37 <SpeedEvil> Jaffa: And more importantly - what that means for the functionality of the n9 as configured for sale.
Jun 29 21:12:38 <MohammadAG> ALL I WANTED WAS A LASER EQUIPPED PHONE *sob*
Jun 29 21:12:57 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: Coincidentally, I am considering buying a laser to make a soldering iron with.
Jun 29 21:13:00 <MoonTiger> MohammadAG, you do a lot of qt stuff right?
Jun 29 21:13:03 <RST38h> why do you need a phone whe you have already got a mfcking lase?
Jun 29 21:13:06 <RST38h> r
Jun 29 21:13:28 <X-Fade> Going to get some sleep. More Harmattan work tomorrow.
Jun 29 21:13:32 <MohammadAG> ahem, back to being serious
Jun 29 21:13:43 <MohammadAG> MoonTiger, done some Gtk alongside, but yes
Jun 29 21:14:02 <MoonTiger> i am having a real problem with sqlite bound parameters in a qsqlquery
Jun 29 21:14:11 <RST38h> Android App Downloads Now Total 4.5 Billion!
Jun 29 21:14:14 <MoonTiger> lkeps failing with "parameter count mismatch"
Jun 29 21:14:14 <MohammadAG> SQLite isn't Qt :p
Jun 29 21:14:17 <RST38h> (how do they count?)
Jun 29 21:14:27 <MoonTiger> ok the qt qsqlquery class
Jun 29 21:14:32 <MoonTiger> when used with sqlite
Jun 29 21:14:44 <MohammadAG> RST38h, fingers, why do you think they have many employees!
Jun 29 21:14:50 <MoonTiger> have u any experience with this?
Jun 29 21:14:58 * javispedro pats MohammadAG and points him to #idonothaveann900, a channel I founded two years ago
Jun 29 21:15:05 <MohammadAG> nope, never used SQLite
Jun 29 21:15:20 <MoonTiger> MohammadAG, ok thnx .... what do you use for storage then?
Jun 29 21:15:21 <MohammadAG> javispedro, you serious about the channel part?
Jun 29 21:15:32 <MohammadAG> MoonTiger, QSettings
Jun 29 21:15:42 <MohammadAG> or manual writing with QFile
Jun 29 21:15:42 <MoonTiger> qsettings .... hmmmmmmm
Jun 29 21:15:48 <MoonTiger> ok thnx
Jun 29 21:15:51 <javispedro> MohammadAG: I do not even remember the full name, but, oh the fun we had on it waiting for the n900! ;P
Jun 29 21:15:55 <mece> is daperl on the list btw?
Jun 29 21:15:55 <MoonTiger> its just for account credentials
Jun 29 21:16:00 <MohammadAG> lmfao!
Jun 29 21:16:13 <MohammadAG> MoonTiger, oh, I'd use some encryption library
Jun 29 21:16:21 <MohammadAG> plaintext is umm, bad
Jun 29 21:16:21 * MohammadAG looks at Sony
Jun 29 21:16:32 <MoonTiger> MohammadAG, yes i will but then i can store the data in qsettings rather than use sqlite maybe
Jun 29 21:16:51 <MoonTiger> but i want to cache data offline and settings doesnt seem good for that
Jun 29 21:16:55 <MoonTiger> maybe a flat file
Jun 29 21:17:06 <MoonTiger> annoying that sqlite is broken
Jun 29 21:17:16 <mece> MoonTiger, how is it broken?
Jun 29 21:17:24 <MohammadAG> QFile and QDir::standardLocation(CacheLocation) ftw
Jun 29 21:17:27 <MohammadAG> or sth like that
Jun 29 21:17:35 <MoonTiger> mece .... a prepared statment in qsqlquery always fails with "parameter count mismatch"
Jun 29 21:18:12 <MohammadAG> sure it's not pebcak? :P
Jun 29 21:18:47 <MoonTiger> pretty sure ... i spent 4hrs trying every possible combination and permutation ... then i just used sprintf for testing and it works 
Jun 29 21:19:26 <MoonTiger> and qsqlquery::executedquery returns the string with the placeholders still in it
Jun 29 21:19:35 <MohammadAG> Jaffa, grr, now someone on tmo is suggesting they don't want me to have a device cause of the CSSU, see what you did? :P
Jun 29 21:19:36 <MoonTiger> when the docs say it should have replaced them
Jun 29 21:19:55 <DocScrutinizer> please do not mess up account credentials on server and their doubtlessly mandatory encryption with the storing of accounts on client side where encryption is a complete nonsense
Jun 29 21:20:17 <MoonTiger> DocScrutinizer, ?
Jun 29 21:20:19 <MohammadAG> MoonTiger, what site is this?
Jun 29 21:20:23 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: Yeah :-(
Jun 29 21:20:25 <MoonTiger> site?
Jun 29 21:20:26 <MohammadAG> most places use OAuth2 or XAuth
Jun 29 21:20:33 <mece> MoonTiger, so this example: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7/qsqlquery.html#exec doesn't work?
Jun 29 21:20:36 <MohammadAG> service, site whatever
Jun 29 21:21:01 <MoonTiger> mece, the first example works fine
Jun 29 21:21:16 <MoonTiger> no bound values
Jun 29 21:21:36 <javispedro> MohammadAG: post another trollface picture on that thread so as to put it back on the right path.
Jun 29 21:22:10 <MohammadAG> javispedro, u mad bro?
Jun 29 21:22:15 <MoonTiger> MohammadAG, i am just writing a lil identica client for now
Jun 29 21:23:07 <MohammadAG> MoonTiger, no token system?
Jun 29 21:23:13 <MoonTiger> not for now
Jun 29 21:23:16 <MohammadAG> My laptop's been lagging like shit lately
Jun 29 21:23:23 <MohammadAG> well, IRC on my laptop
Jun 29 21:23:31 <MoonTiger> but even if use oauth for twitter i still need to store the token rather than the credentials
Jun 29 21:23:44 <MohammadAG> storing a token is better than storing credentials
Jun 29 21:23:55 <MohammadAG> the user can deny access that way, rather than changing the pass
Jun 29 21:24:07 <MoonTiger> MohammadAG, yes i know all that .... its the sqlite brokeness im trying to figure out right now
Jun 29 21:25:01 <MoonTiger> i will encrypt the credentials whatever they are anyways
Jun 29 21:25:47 <MoonTiger> ok well anyways.... i will go file a bug report
Jun 29 21:25:49 <MoonTiger> thnx :)
Jun 29 21:28:54 <DocScrutinizer> MoonTiger: (encryption) it's nonsense to encrypt anything with a password that's also available on same machine
Jun 29 21:29:17 <MoonTiger> DocScrutinizer, yah i had wondered about that and trying to set up a webservice to use for the encryption
Jun 29 21:29:26 <MoonTiger> then use a token on the client
Jun 29 21:29:28 <MoonTiger> etc etc
Jun 29 21:30:03 <DocScrutinizer> there's no way to protect user from his passwords/credentials
Jun 29 21:30:36 <MoonTiger> DocScrutinizer,yah thats where i go to as well
Jun 29 21:30:48 <DocScrutinizer> either store then crypted and make user enter master password, or just forget about all encryption
Jun 29 21:31:08 <MoonTiger> and asking a amster pw everytime is just not realistic
Jun 29 21:31:13 <MoonTiger> mster too
Jun 29 21:31:16 <MoonTiger> master
Jun 29 21:31:54 <DocScrutinizer> so you have to live with passwords stored on your client, and if they are then damn sure better in plain text so user can mange them
Jun 29 21:31:55 <MoonTiger> is the qt source code available anywhere btw?
Jun 29 21:32:07 <MoonTiger> hmmmmmm
Jun 29 21:32:16 <MoonTiger> identica doesnt support oauth yet
Jun 29 21:33:01 <GeneralAntilles> Did anybody start in on cleaning up the wiki?
Jun 29 21:34:37 <DocScrutinizer> ??
Jun 29 21:34:58 <DocScrutinizer> GeneralAntilles: what particularly?
Jun 29 21:35:14 <GeneralAntilles> Table-ize the accepted list
Jun 29 21:35:17 <GeneralAntilles> I see not, though.
Jun 29 21:35:19 <DocScrutinizer> rm -r /allthewiki?
Jun 29 21:35:28 <DocScrutinizer> aah
Jun 29 21:36:29 <alterego> quim wants it like it is so it's easy to edit.
Jun 29 21:41:51 <Jaffa> X-Fade: lardman|gone: I've added bits about projects & repositories to http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_OBS after my playing today
Jun 29 21:46:25 <MohammadAG> alterego, a table would be easier in this case
Jun 29 21:46:29 <Venemo> hiemanshu, hey! I see your name too
Jun 29 21:46:30 <MohammadAG> Name | Project
Jun 29 21:47:25 <Venemo> MohammadAG, please call them and get them to their senses
Jun 29 21:47:35 <Venemo> it is outrageous that you are not on the list.
Jun 29 21:47:55 <MohammadAG> Venemo, I'll wait till tomorrow
Jun 29 21:49:19 <Venemo> thp, Jaffa, alterego, Conny, hiemanshu myself, and anyone who did a thing at Maemo has gotten one... I think that your name should appear in that list right now. especially because of the Community SSU
Jun 29 21:49:25 <Venemo> think about it
Jun 29 21:49:39 <Venemo> who is gonna make a Harmattan community SSU if not MohammadAG?
Jun 29 21:50:18 <Jaffa> Venemo: Please calm down. The MohammadAG-oriented mobbery could end up being counterproductive.
Jun 29 21:50:56 <Jaffa> Not that you're too bad, but I've just read the TMO posts about "Nokia being embarrassed by the success of the CSSU, so they're punishing MAG"
Jun 29 21:50:58 <MohammadAG> Change the subject, I'll wait till tomorrow
Jun 29 21:51:02 <Jaffa> I mean, it's just ridiculous.
Jun 29 21:51:12 <SpeedEvil> Venemo: stskeeps has prior convictions in the area of community OSs.
Jun 29 21:51:17 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: How does the BT aspect of BTM working?
Jun 29 21:51:21 <Jaffa> s/working/work/
Jun 29 21:51:22 <infobot> Jaffa meant: MohammadAG: How does the BT aspect of BTM work?
Jun 29 21:51:35 <SpeedEvil> I also noticed some bluez developers on the list
Jun 29 21:51:41 <MohammadAG> anyone know of some good movies? something released in 2011 preferably
Jun 29 21:51:56 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: Is it a new BT profile (a la OBEX, A2DP, ...)? Or does it build on top of an existing one?
Jun 29 21:52:13 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: Tremors. 20 years old, but still great.
Jun 29 21:52:15 <Venemo> Jaffa, I understand and agree with your point of view. but still.
Jun 29 21:52:21 <MoonTiger> if anybody could tell me if they see anything wrong here i would be very grateful: http://pastebin.com/FB4HSxib
Jun 29 21:52:22 <MoonTiger> thnx
Jun 29 21:53:20 <MohammadAG> Jaffa, Qt Mobility, socket servers
Jun 29 21:53:21 <Venemo> MohammadAG, dunno about any good 2011 films yet
Jun 29 21:54:10 <javispedro> rfcomm iirc, MohammadAG Jaffa
Jun 29 21:54:41 <MohammadAG> javispedro, heh, you remember well :p
Jun 29 21:55:00 <javispedro> MohammadAG: I've asked you many times I think and then I was not sure again, hehe.
Jun 29 21:55:14 <MohammadAG> Venemo, The Adjustment Bureau was good
Jun 29 21:55:27 <Venemo> haven't heard about it
Jun 29 21:56:23 <GeneralAntilles> MohammadAG, Tropic Thunder.
Jun 29 21:57:20 <GeneralAntilles> "Relaxed, casual, portrait web browser." doesn't sound like anything I want.
Jun 29 21:58:09 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: Could've been worse, they could've thrown "social" in there too
Jun 29 21:58:22 <MohammadAG> lol
Jun 29 21:58:51 * GeneralAntilles shudders.
Jun 29 22:01:55 <Venemo> GeneralAntilles, you getting an N950 too?
Jun 29 22:02:01 <GeneralAntilles> Evidently.
Jun 29 22:02:08 <SpeedEvil> Congrats.
Jun 29 22:02:37 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: SnapGo sounds cool. The idea of clock synched post-geolocation is genius.
Jun 29 22:02:50 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, been floating around in my head for a while.
Jun 29 22:02:55 <GeneralAntilles> I've seen it implemented on iOS.
Jun 29 22:03:02 <Venemo> GeneralAntilles, congrats then :)
Jun 29 22:03:23 <GeneralAntilles> Hard part is getting plug-ins put together for all of the big photo managers.
Jun 29 22:03:31 <GeneralAntilles> Hopefully some interested photographers will pitch in there.
Jun 29 22:04:29 <GeneralAntilles> How do you get 2,600 Thanks! and post something like that. . . .
Jun 29 22:04:37 <GeneralAntilles> Talk really has fallen.
Jun 29 22:04:49 <Jaffa> ?
Jun 29 22:04:51 <MohammadAG> Jaffa, just went over the list
Jun 29 22:04:57 <alterego> Hah
Jun 29 22:05:04 <Jaffa> GeneralAnittles: I seem to have missed a jump in the conversation.
Jun 29 22:05:04 <MohammadAG> the CSSU suggestion is actually ridiculous :P
Jun 29 22:05:09 <MohammadAG> most CSSU contributors are on it
Jun 29 22:05:14 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, marxian on the N950 devkit thread.
Jun 29 22:05:23 <GeneralAntilles> The conspiracy theories.
Jun 29 22:05:30 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: Ah
Jun 29 22:05:42 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: No, RST38h told me that you're the only one who's done any work on the CSSU.
Jun 29 22:06:01 <MohammadAG> Let's not start that one again :p
Jun 29 22:06:08 <Jaffa> True.
Jun 29 22:06:17 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: Chosen a film?
Jun 29 22:06:24 <MohammadAG> Remember I spent some time learning gtk and annoying javispedro just to write an applet to give thanks
Jun 29 22:06:30 <MohammadAG> nope, not yet
Jun 29 22:06:32 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: I suggest not picking "Fallen Down"
Jun 29 22:06:57 <MohammadAG> anyone seen The Hangover II?
Jun 29 22:07:09 <GeneralAntilles> Thor wasn't unreasonably entertaining.
Jun 29 22:07:11 <GeneralAntilles> MohammadAG, walked out.
Jun 29 22:07:24 * javispedro _needs_ to watch Rat Race again
Jun 29 22:07:32 <MohammadAG> GeneralAntilles, why?
Jun 29 22:07:49 <GeneralAntilles> MohammadAG, it's awful.
Jun 29 22:07:58 <MohammadAG> not as good as I?
Jun 29 22:08:01 <GeneralAntilles> Mediocre summer-comedy sequel awful.
Jun 29 22:08:25 <GeneralAntilles> Priest was also entertaining.
Jun 29 22:08:36 <GeneralAntilles> If a bit destroyed by the studio when they cut it down.
Jun 29 22:09:05 * Jaffa beds.
Jun 29 22:09:19 <GeneralAntilles> Ooh, Source Code was fun.
Jun 29 22:09:26 <Jaffa> Yeah, that was alright
Jun 29 22:09:30 <Jaffa> Quite good
Jun 29 22:09:49 <Jaffa> Very 12 Monkeys, meets Quantum Leap, meets Groundhog Day, meets Moon
Jun 29 22:09:51 <MohammadAG> only thing I hated about it is the train scene being played about 10 times
Jun 29 22:09:57 <GeneralAntilles> Jane Eyre was good, too, though I doubt that's what you're looking for. ;)
Jun 29 22:10:14 <MohammadAG> night Jaffa
Jun 29 22:10:22 <Jaffa> night
Jun 29 22:10:46 <javispedro> gnite Jaffa 
Jun 29 22:11:04 <javispedro> Source code was good?
Jun 29 22:11:10 <javispedro> oh well.
Jun 29 22:11:14 <javispedro> (didn't see it)
Jun 29 22:19:24 <alterego> Meh
Jun 29 22:19:40 <alterego> GeneralAntilles: I'm watching Jane Eyre right now
Jun 29 22:19:48 <alterego> Source was so-so tbh
Jun 29 22:23:47 <MoonTiger> is 4.6.2 the latest version of qt for maemo?
Jun 29 22:24:39 <alterego> We have 4.7 in devel I think
Jun 29 22:24:54 <MohammadAG> 4.7.4 is latest upstream for maemo
Jun 29 22:24:55 <MoonTiger> my qtcreator is building with 4.6.2
Jun 29 22:25:11 <MohammadAG> update it then
Jun 29 22:25:20 <MoonTiger> how do i do that??
Jun 29 22:25:34 <MoonTiger> uh goot it
Jun 29 22:25:37 <MohammadAG> Source code has the most irrelevant title ever, but the movie was good
Jun 29 22:26:36 <MoonTiger> ummmm odd the sdk update tool finds nothing to update
Jun 29 22:26:42 <MoonTiger> but its building with 4.6.2
Jun 29 22:27:17 <MoonTiger> i have 4.7.3 for desktop
Jun 29 22:27:22 <MoonTiger> how do i get that for maemo?
Jun 29 22:27:38 <MoonTiger> maybe this damn sqlite bug has been fixed
Jun 29 22:29:19 <alterego> Well, the title is less ambiguous in philosphical terms. But yeah, was a bit oddly named :D
Jun 29 22:30:09 <MohammadAG> alterego, expected tarballs in the movie, got some trains exploding
Jun 29 22:30:14 <MohammadAG> that's not source code!
Jun 29 22:35:01 <alterego> MohammadAG: I think it references the code that can become life ;)
Jun 29 22:37:25 <MoonTiger> is it qt libs for embedded linux i need?
Jun 29 22:38:05 <alterego> mad-admin xdpkg
Jun 29 22:38:09 <alterego> it is your friend.
Jun 29 22:39:16 <divan> MohammadAG, I can't see you in the N950 acceppted list :( Hope it will be updated tomorrow//
Jun 29 22:40:57 <MoonTiger> alterego, how does this help me update to 4.7.3 from 4.6.2?
Jun 29 22:43:00 <MoonTiger> ahhhhhhh
Jun 29 22:44:15 <iphaRa> hello, i'm tyring to install gcc on my Nokia N900, so i got it from here: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_sdk_free_armel/gcc-4.2/4.2.1-4maemo13+0m5/
Jun 29 22:44:24 <iphaRa> installed all armel dependancy packages as root with dpkg -i
Jun 29 22:44:41 <iphaRa> however now that i want to see if a simple "hello world" compiles, but after "gcc-4.2 test.c", i get this:
Jun 29 22:44:51 <iphaRa> http://pastebin.com/60168GNj
Jun 29 22:45:16 <iphaRa> how can there be no stdio.h? :(
Jun 29 22:45:20 <SpeedEvil> you want to install build-essentials, not gcc
Jun 29 22:46:10 <iphaRa> ok, let me google that to see what it is
Jun 29 22:46:19 <MohammadAG> stdio.h is in libc6-dev
Jun 29 22:46:32 <iphaRa> ..i've got libc6-dev also installed
Jun 29 22:46:52 <iphaRa> it's part of the gcc package from the link above
Jun 29 22:47:17 <SpeedEvil> Also - it makes more sense to copy / to /home/user/chroot or something - and then chroot into it and install build-essentials in that
Jun 29 22:48:54 <iphaRa> alright.. http://maemo.org/packages/view/build-essential/ ^_^
Jun 29 22:49:31 <iphaRa> SpeedEvil: so you're saying, make a separate dir; install it there
Jun 29 22:49:59 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jun 29 22:50:10 <SpeedEvil> Otherwise you can easily run out of space on /
Jun 29 22:50:15 <SpeedEvil> which is bad.
Jun 29 22:52:21 <alterego> And the penny drops ..
Jun 29 22:52:41 <alterego> My work here is done. I'll be seeing you tomorrow, g'night.
Jun 29 23:03:20 <iphaRa> oh fudge, SpeedEvil i just did the mistake you warned me against ...
Jun 29 23:03:59 <iphaRa> i thought that by 'dpkg -i /home/user/MyDocs/deb *armel.deb' will install all in MyDocs/deb
Jun 29 23:27:01 <iphaRa> / has 75% thogh, probably normal :)
Jun 29 23:33:06 <divan> Is there any platform defines in Qt for WeTab version of Meego? Something similar for Q_WS_MAEMO_5 in Maemo..
Jun 29 23:37:08 <MohammadAG> no, not until the next update
Jun 29 23:37:58 <MohammadAG> contains(MEEGO_FLAVOR, Harmattan): DEFINES += Q_WS_MAEMO_6 may work
Jun 29 23:39:20 <MohammadAG>  1119     2 root     RW       0  0.0 87.5 [sgx_misr] :/
Jun 29 23:48:14 <trx> is there a reason why there is no libusb-1.0 in the repos?
Jun 29 23:48:24 <trx> i see only 0.1 there
Jun 29 23:48:45 <trx> also only 0.1 on my n900 /lib/
Jun 29 23:51:34 <MohammadAG> night everyone :)
Jun 29 23:55:06 <trx> night
Jun 30 00:12:11 <iphaRa> alright,, after some googling, turns out that gcc is too much, and i could just apt-get tcc and solve all my problems in about 100KB
Jun 30 00:12:42 <iphaRa> which is all ineed for a smiple classroom compiler
Jun 30 00:40:58 <Termana> good morning
Jun 30 00:52:05 <MohammadAG> morning Termana 
Jun 30 01:15:39 <MohammadAG> kinda dead in here at 4AM :p
Jun 30 01:17:09 * SpeedEvil hits MohammadAG with a duck.
Jun 30 01:17:54 <MohammadAG> yay, ducky
Jun 30 01:18:39 <SpeedEvil> I don't think that 4AM is what quim meant by 'more tomorrow'.
Jun 30 01:18:40 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jun 30 01:18:55 <MohammadAG> Can't sleep
Jun 30 01:19:15 <MohammadAG> Not sure why, but this has been going on for some time lately
Jun 30 01:19:31 <SpeedEvil> Here too.
Jun 30 01:19:56 <MohammadAG> it's annoying
Jun 30 01:20:04 <SpeedEvil> Sleep pattern is even more fragmented than normal.
Jun 30 01:20:05 <MohammadAG> Imma end up being awake for 48 hours again
Jun 30 01:20:22 <MohammadAG> last time wasn't pleasant, I did get sociality done overnight though
Jun 30 01:21:03 <SpeedEvil> :) 
Jun 30 01:22:02 <SpeedEvil> Main problem at the moment is that I'm not sleeping integrals of 24h. :)
Jun 30 01:22:11 * MohammadAG tries to finish Nothing Else Matters on guitar
Jun 30 01:22:41 <MohammadAG> main problem here is I wasted 2 hours in bed trying to sleep
Jun 30 01:22:45 <MohammadAG> or 1 hour
Jun 30 01:23:25 <SpeedEvil> yeah.
Jun 30 01:26:24 <GAN900> lol
Jun 30 01:26:36 <GAN900> MohammadAG, melatonin supplements are useful.
Jun 30 01:28:33 <MohammadAG> GAN900, mela what?
Jun 30 01:29:16 <GAN900> Hormone that triggers tiredness.
Jun 30 01:29:23 <GAN900> Helps you fall asleep
Jun 30 01:29:23 <MohammadAG> I'm already tired
Jun 30 01:29:30 <MohammadAG> just can't sleep :p
Jun 30 01:29:47 <MohammadAG> too tired to do anything productive actually
Jun 30 01:29:49 <GAN900> Right, it'll do away with the insomnia
Jun 30 01:30:13 <MohammadAG> heh
Jun 30 01:32:55 <SpeedEvil> The wikipedia page seems to paint melatonin as bringing world peace, and raising the dead.
Jun 30 01:35:24 <GeneralAntilles> Well, it's Wikipedia.
Jun 30 01:35:33 <GeneralAntilles> Everybody with an axe to grind a lots of free time goes there.
Jun 30 01:35:42 <GeneralAntilles> So it's basically an encyclopedia written by nutjobs.
Jun 30 01:35:54 <SpeedEvil> In some areas it's useful.
Jun 30 01:36:11 <SpeedEvil> In areas where people have strong opinions - maybe less so.
Jun 30 01:39:37 * MohammadAG tries sleeping again
Jun 30 01:39:42 <MohammadAG> night, I hope
Jun 30 01:39:47 <GeneralAntilles> 'luck
Jun 30 01:40:19 <SpeedEvil> Good luck!
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 30 02:59:57 2011