**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jul 02 02:59:57 2011 Jul 02 03:06:27 full charge, bq27200 full reset, write 1200 into AR register, transfer AR to NAC. Results: LMD=2048, NAC=1200. Discharge battery: LMD becomes 1700-ish. Jul 02 03:06:41 No quick shortcut for calibration :( Jul 02 03:08:28 like a laptop's battery calibration thing would've been more feasible otherwise :) Jul 02 03:10:23 ShadowJK: you noticed my comments about pin9 and 10 of bq27200? Jul 02 03:16:31 ShadowJK: you probably even *could* use pin9 GPIO to enable VPP on pin10, which might be available e.g. form backlight booster ;-) Jul 02 03:23:40 nope, not really. The programming scheme for bq27200 forbids concurrent use of GPIO Jul 02 03:24:36 50ms pulse of 21V to pin 10 Jul 02 03:31:51 21V? Jul 02 03:32:04 bzzt :) Jul 02 03:54:35 Droid 3, OMAP4430, 1GB RAM, 4" qHD display Jul 02 03:54:40 Wouldn't it be nice. Jul 02 03:56:37 wouldn't it? Jul 02 03:57:01 I'd wait until TI fixes omap4's ram issues Jul 02 04:04:38 ShadowJK, ah, right. Jul 02 04:04:41 Forgot about that Jul 02 04:04:46 Always something. Jul 02 05:06:21 bah, I cant get dbus-monitor to dump the dbus messages that I KNOW are being sent Jul 02 05:11:27 mental note, dont try and stop/start/restart the Mode Control Entity :P Jul 02 05:11:40 doing so is bad :P Jul 02 05:15:41 if I could just get dbus-monitor to dump the tklock_close and tklock_open calls, I would be in business Jul 02 05:22:24 aha, need to enable eavsdropping Jul 02 05:24:13 ok, WTF. Its sitting on a screen with a blue NOKIA logo on a white background and wont go any further in the boot process Jul 02 05:24:26 Is my phone hosed? Jul 02 05:26:14 hmm, I think its just somehow run out of battery Jul 02 05:26:32 If I plug charger in, I get dark screen with just visible NOKIA logo Jul 02 05:26:35 plus charging LED Jul 02 05:27:46 is this maemo5? Jul 02 05:28:07 yes Jul 02 05:28:08 Fremantle Jul 02 05:28:19 N900 Jul 02 05:28:54 so yeah if I power the phone with no charger plugged in, I get NOKIA logo on white and nothing more Jul 02 05:29:13 if I plug with wall charger, I get charging LED and dim nokia logo Jul 02 05:29:19 Does that mean its low battery Jul 02 05:29:29 or does it mean I need to reflash (which I would rather NOT do) Jul 02 05:29:55 it'd rebootloop Jul 02 05:30:10 so the screen I get means what? Jul 02 05:30:14 pulsating or steady charge led? Jul 02 05:30:18 plusating Jul 02 05:30:26 normal orange pulse for charging Jul 02 05:30:30 probably charging then Jul 02 05:30:54 ok, my guess is that when I boot with no charger, the boot starts, displays the nokia logo then says "hey, not enough juice to boot" Jul 02 05:31:22 if I boot with the charger it says "hey, not enough juice to boot but there is a charger plugged in so lets charge" Jul 02 05:31:37 thats my guess anyway Jul 02 05:31:39 and pressing powerbutton with charger connected doesn't turn led blue? (usually you hold it a sec or two and the led turns progressively blue) Jul 02 05:32:09 nope, pressing power with charger doesnt make it go blue or change the screen Jul 02 05:32:26 no matter how long I hold down the power button Jul 02 05:33:16 I hope I havent screwed up something important and need to reflash :( Jul 02 05:33:39 I think the best thing to do is to leave it for a while and let it charge Jul 02 05:33:44 You can't reflash with empty battery anyway Jul 02 05:33:57 I have no idea if the battery is empty or not Jul 02 05:34:09 but I am going to assume that it is Jul 02 05:34:18 and let it charge (assuming thats what its doing) Jul 02 05:34:21 and mess with it later Jul 02 05:35:17 I wish there was more documentation on the boot process Jul 02 05:35:23 and what different boot events mean Jul 02 05:36:16 documentationis generally lacking regrding follow-on effects of various shoot-self-in-foot events :) Jul 02 05:38:04 lets read http://wiki.maemo.org/Troubleshooting_boot_issues Jul 02 05:38:07 that might tell me something Jul 02 05:38:27 oh wait that doesnt help Jul 02 05:41:46 There's a stage where it has booted into kernel, and then if battery is too low it turns off backlight for precharge. However, since PR1.3 kernel the system with charger connected consumes more than that Jul 02 05:41:55 marginally Jul 02 05:42:25 My guess is that the NOKIA logo comes from the bootloader Jul 02 05:42:29 rather than the kernel Jul 02 05:42:40 if it booted kernel, I would expect to see the dots Jul 02 05:42:45 and maybe the nokia hands animation Jul 02 05:43:10 so if it turns itself off after 3-10 days, then goes steady orange light, and boots into lights off again, that's probably what happened Jul 02 05:43:32 I suspect my phone is simply out of juice Jul 02 05:43:42 all the experiments I have been doing probably drained it Jul 02 05:43:53 Well nolo throws up hands, linux doesn't replace it Jul 02 05:44:07 ok, so hands comes from nolo Jul 02 05:44:13 ok, that means its not booting kernel at all Jul 02 05:44:28 it doesn't necessarily mean that Jul 02 05:44:35 ok Jul 02 05:45:15 if it goes to act_dead mode, it just pauses/halts boot before progress balls would appear, or something like that Jul 02 05:45:25 act_dead mode is what? Jul 02 05:47:13 aha, "(btw for the record, the battery charging is actually an even more stripped down "act-dead" mode... the device actually powers up, loads frame buffer drivers for the display/etc, then shows you the charging screen). " Jul 02 05:47:16 That sounds like the mode my phone is in Jul 02 06:05:40 Wow! According to my Backupmenu readme logs, I've got 269 distinct installs of my current version in less than 24 hours. Jul 02 07:00:13 damn, my phone still wont work Jul 02 07:01:37 :( Jul 02 07:10:57 I can get the flasher to see the phone though Jul 02 07:11:01 so its definatly getting that far Jul 02 07:11:08 I just cant get it to fully boot Jul 02 07:17:51 I just hope I dont need to reflash :( Jul 02 07:18:04 where are the gurus when ya need em :P Jul 02 07:18:34 The last thing I did before this happened was I changed a dbus config file Jul 02 07:18:49 but what I am seeing suggests its more than a simple screwed up dbus config Jul 02 07:21:47 It better not be a hardware fault or else I might end up with no usable phone and a useless piece of crap from Nokia Care running Symbian Jul 02 07:24:54 jonwil: Try flashing a framebuffer kernel Jul 02 07:25:06 Probably an Optfs problem Jul 02 07:25:45 will flashing the phone risk things if the battery is dead/not providing enough juice or will it just fail to flash? Jul 02 07:25:53 And where do I get a safe trusted kernel to try? Jul 02 07:26:38 I hope editing /etc/dbus-1/system.conf to enable dbus eavesdropping isn't the cause of my problem Jul 02 07:26:41 http://maemo.org/packages/view/kernel-framebuffer/ Jul 02 07:27:08 grab the image file out of that package, flash with Nokia flasher Jul 02 07:27:34 and it'll fail to flash, likely. Even if it flashed part way, you're in no danger - There's always Cold Flashing Jul 02 07:28:07 N900's just about unbrickable, provided you have an external charger or second battery, provided the first one runs down Jul 02 07:28:57 It doesnt find the right file for that kernel Jul 02 07:29:19 http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/k/kernel/kernel-framebuffer_2.6.28-20101501+0m5-framebuffer1_armel.deb not found Jul 02 07:29:44 so where do I get it from? Jul 02 07:30:38 ok, I found http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/kernels/framebuffer/ Jul 02 07:30:41 which file do I want? Jul 02 07:30:56 zImage-fb-omap1-pr13? Jul 02 07:32:37 and how do I flash it? Jul 02 07:32:59 Um, there's a -k option IIRC Jul 02 07:33:04 run flasher -h or w/e Jul 02 07:33:09 get the list of options Jul 02 07:36:38 You don't have Backupmenu, do you? Jul 02 07:38:41 ok, I have framebuffer kernel now Jul 02 07:39:13 ok, now I see su: can't chdir to home directory /home/user Jul 02 07:39:34 also something about "error reading WD flags" Jul 02 07:40:26 Can I flash this "backupmenu" thing directly with my phone in this state? Jul 02 07:40:41 If I can just get to a shell, I think its fixable Jul 02 07:41:23 i wonder, is the NAND and emmc availble if you boot meego from the sdcard? Jul 02 07:41:33 if so that would be one way to get a shell Jul 02 07:43:18 Well, try flashing this: http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/BackupMenu/flashable_rootfs_v0.56-1-20101109.img Jul 02 07:43:28 Use the -r rootfs option Jul 02 07:44:00 wont that overwrite all my settings like /etc and stuff? Jul 02 07:44:07 Yes. Um... Jul 02 07:44:26 I just need to get a shell on the thing Jul 02 07:45:20 Which - AFAIK - is impossible currently. Without Backupmenu or some other pre-boot stuff already installed, you can't even manually install something new, as you can't get access to the rootfs or optfs. Jul 02 07:45:51 You can, however, save your MyDocs and possibly some Optfs files if you're lucky and don't fully flash Jul 02 07:46:08 optfs contains your important bits - program settings, email, sms etc. Jul 02 07:47:51 where is /home/user stored? Jul 02 07:47:56 optfs? rootfs? Jul 02 07:48:27 Ok, I am now prepared to use a freaking CPP on these .java files. Jul 02 07:48:49 Can I flash a loader or kernel that boots from microsd? Jul 02 07:49:01 e.g. image on microsd? Jul 02 07:57:36 frals: nand is not, emmc is Jul 02 08:00:29 does reflashing rootfs erase /home/user? Jul 02 08:00:31 jonwil: umm, do you have uboot or something installled? Jul 02 08:00:53 jonwil: yes, it doesn't touch MyDocs though Jul 02 08:00:56 nope, I dont, can I install that with the flashable uboot-and-kernel image? Jul 02 08:02:05 jonwil: what are you trying to do? Jul 02 08:02:29 trying to find out why my phone wont boot and/or fix it without loosing all my data Jul 02 08:03:00 jonwil: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd Jul 02 08:03:06 jonwil: it has a recovery terminal Jul 02 08:08:43 ok, the recovery kernel seems to boot Jul 02 08:08:46 but the screen is dark Jul 02 08:08:49 and I cant see Jul 02 08:08:54 Is there a way I can key something in to solve that? Jul 02 08:11:53 ok, I need to enable r&D mode for that Jul 02 08:11:56 now I can type Jul 02 08:16:53 ok, now I cant get the blue symbol key to work so I cant type in symbols like - or / Jul 02 08:18:36 if I can get the symbol key to work I should be able to fix my phone Jul 02 08:19:29 jonwil: long press doen't work either? Jul 02 08:21:17 nope :( Jul 02 08:24:09 if I can just get it so I can type a - key, I can do stuff :) Jul 02 08:26:03 typing i overrated Jul 02 08:26:19 not when you are trying to fix a busted phone its not :P Jul 02 08:27:09 elitist Jul 02 08:29:48 Heh Jul 02 08:29:52 Use the vkb Jul 02 08:30:54 the meego recovery kernel has no virtual keyboard Jul 02 08:30:56 or anything fancy Jul 02 08:33:56 does the recovery console have usbnetwork by any chance? Jul 02 08:36:16 yes, it does have usb net Jul 02 08:37:31 does usbnet for the recovery console help me get access to it? Jul 02 08:39:30 not sure about that :/ Jul 02 08:44:08 got a SD card? Jul 02 08:44:20 or wait... no slash. Jul 02 08:44:23 dammit Jul 02 08:44:38 Morning, all Jul 02 08:45:15 I am going to attempt to copy meegoce image to microsd Jul 02 08:45:25 and use flasher -l to load the kernel Jul 02 08:45:28 and get into meegoce Jul 02 08:45:31 javispedro: 16GB Jul 02 08:45:36 mount my maemo / Jul 02 08:45:40 and then fix it Jul 02 08:45:42 somehow Jul 02 08:45:47 or if not fix, copy everything off Jul 02 08:45:50 and reflash Jul 02 08:45:51 ^^ Jul 02 09:11:15 Would be cool if we can hack meego on to WP7 phones... Jul 02 09:12:05 are there EGL linux drivers for the snapdraong? Jul 02 09:12:11 snapdragon... Jul 02 09:12:37 also, is it high security silicon? Jul 02 09:14:55 Dunno Jul 02 09:15:09 If it's as easy as Android .. Jul 02 09:15:23 But it probably wont be, I guess we'll know soon enough. Jul 02 09:17:07 http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/MSMQSD Jul 02 09:19:48 so unless someone comes up with a driver... Jul 02 09:19:59 see bug 17570 on meego.com Jul 02 09:20:01 04Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/17570 was not found. Jul 02 09:51:56 uhm Jul 02 09:52:18 how do you mark stuff in the webbrowser on maemo? Jul 02 09:53:45 mark? Jul 02 09:54:12 yea copy paste from the page Jul 02 09:55:04 in order to copy from a page, you first need to mark some text Jul 02 10:03:19 swipe left to right Jul 02 10:03:23 click the mouse button Jul 02 10:03:29 highlight like crazy Jul 02 10:05:47 http://rzr.online.fr/q/amiga# : p-uae is a portable #unix #amiga #emulator packaged for #meego and #debian distro, report prerelease tests Jul 02 10:05:59 thanks Jul 02 10:13:27 oh boy Jul 02 10:13:29 wrong chang :) Jul 02 10:13:31 chan Jul 02 10:13:51 only amiga makes it happen Jul 02 10:14:34 rzr: Why not package it for Maemo as well? shouldn't me much different than Debian Jul 02 10:14:55 rzr: whats with all the # characters? Jul 02 10:15:07 pabs3: channels, obviously Jul 02 10:15:20 and those all seem like valid channels on Freenode Jul 02 10:15:37 lol Jul 02 10:17:49 robbiethe1st: i dont have scratchbox on my current computer but yes it is planned too Jul 02 10:17:56 Ok, good. Jul 02 10:18:33 unless i can ssh to a maemo rootfs Jul 02 10:23:40 pabs3: # are cut and paste from http://identi.ca/rzr Jul 02 10:26:24 ah Jul 02 10:43:29 jonwil: changing kernel without taking care about modules ->brick. Rescue-initrd use ctrl-i to tab-expand helps a bit. dbus failure sure causes bootup lock. ~user is on eMMC Jul 02 10:44:33 I am just trying to get a usable terminal on my phone so I can mount rootfs Jul 02 10:44:44 jonwil: flashing rootfs deletes /opt though Jul 02 10:44:55 dont you mean that /opt is in emmc Jul 02 10:45:03 and rootfs is on nand Jul 02 10:45:06 jonwil: usable terminal: go meego, your best chance Jul 02 10:45:55 yes /opt is on eMMC but flashing rootfs will cause deletion of /opt on first boot Jul 02 10:45:59 Flashing rootfs *with the stock rootfs* deletes opt on the first boot Jul 02 10:46:02 Yea Jul 02 10:46:16 got to use something different if you don't want it wiped Jul 02 10:47:15 robbiethe1st: congrats to V1.0 :-) did you get the "bot me up" key? Jul 02 10:47:20 boot* Jul 02 10:47:24 Uh...? Jul 02 10:47:28 <[DarkGUNMAN]> /home/user is a good placemto keep Jul 02 10:48:31 DocScrutinizer: Uh...? boot me up key? Jul 02 10:50:23 robbiethe1st: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1042989&postcount=786 Jul 02 10:51:07 See my next point. Not going to be easily possible; it's in a chroot, and I'd have to somehow switch back and continue the boot process. Jul 02 10:52:35 I did implement the (needed) optfs-formatting bit, though. And I may be able to actually add terminal capability for Kernel-power users Jul 02 10:52:57 cool :-D Jul 02 10:53:41 Turns out there's a 'fbcon' module which, when loaded might just allow me to go "sh", and get a terminal! :D Jul 02 10:55:04 or kernelpanic and reboot - 2 of 3 cases ;-) Jul 02 10:55:46 might be good enough if you really need term Jul 02 10:56:05 just don't load the fbcon unconditionally :-) Jul 02 10:56:51 Yea, definitely. Jul 02 10:57:54 hey robbiethe1st Jul 02 10:58:00 ? Jul 02 10:58:22 I've been seeing your name all over somewhere today (some maemo site) Jul 02 10:59:24 well, YEAH Jul 02 11:01:29 and it's talk.maemo.org, the official maemo forum... Jul 02 11:06:00 jonwil: btw I don't think you need to switch sth on dbus-config to 'eavesdrop' any msg. dbus-monitor shal get them all, on user session and on system buss Jul 02 11:07:08 Hurrian: i unpacked your file Jul 02 11:07:12 frals: Quick question - when creating an event in Calendar, how do you make it go in anything other than the "default" calendar? Jul 02 11:07:50 Hurrian: http://paste.ubuntu.com/636855/ Jul 02 11:08:56 hey, does nitdroid support u-boot now? topic seems to imply this? Jul 02 11:09:11 or are you just saying "don't use nitdroid" Jul 02 11:16:11 ali1234, many android devices use uboot Jul 02 11:17:19 however, iirc nitdroid people use startup scripts that mess with regular startup Jul 02 11:17:54 heh, nitdroid front page got replaced with spam Jul 02 11:18:32 yup Jul 02 11:18:39 not like the wiki's updated anyway Jul 02 11:19:56 hey guys :) Jul 02 11:21:25 The minute Nitdroid uses Uboot, I'll try it. Not before. Jul 02 11:21:44 robbiethe1st: i'll start testing it again if they switch Jul 02 11:21:55 like many others, i'd like to avoid onenand writes Jul 02 11:21:59 Yea Jul 02 11:22:28 heh, i'd like a graphical boot menu (like Chameleon) for uboot Jul 02 11:23:25 ali1234 , if you're still here, i'm assuming you'll need python-lzo for said script Jul 02 11:24:22 Hurrian: yes Jul 02 11:26:20 oh wow, they're all packaged rpm. brb, recompiling everything for ubuntu Jul 02 11:27:24 liblzo is in the ubuntu repository Jul 02 11:27:35 Jaffa: press the down arrow splitting the top with the "note" Jul 02 11:31:02 ali1234, installed liblzo-dev, installing python-dev for oberhumer's python-lzo Jul 02 11:31:17 pabs3: fied that Jul 02 11:31:21 fixed Jul 02 11:38:49 anyone know if nitdroid still overclocks to 700 on default voltage? Jul 02 11:41:29 depends on device Jul 02 11:41:43 Like with maemo, all depends on the device Jul 02 11:55:28 no, i mean if it's still a default setting Jul 02 11:55:34 it's a pretty bad idea imho Jul 02 12:06:41 still no luck mounting my rootfs with any of the rescue initrds I have tried Jul 02 12:07:16 and I dont have anything small enough to flash onto my 1gb microsd that will help Jul 02 12:11:20 Isn't the smallest meego under that? Jul 02 12:11:49 if you have a link for that, that would be GRETA Jul 02 12:11:52 GREAT Jul 02 12:12:21 Sorry - no. I vaguely recall Dibblah did so, to rescue his device. I'm unsure if that was to the SD though Jul 02 12:12:27 to a 1G SD Jul 02 12:13:11 uhh, btrfs compression might get you there Jul 02 12:13:20 if btrfs doesn't ENOSPC on you first Jul 02 12:13:28 iirc i got meego to 7xx MB Jul 02 12:13:35 btrfs could be lying ofc Jul 02 12:14:17 you can't use btrfs - btrfs is for raw flash devices - SD is not raw flash Jul 02 12:14:37 don't you mean ubifs? Jul 02 12:14:53 err Jul 02 12:14:54 btrfs is a disk filesystem like ext4 Jul 02 12:14:55 so how do I get meego to fit on a 1GB microsd then? Jul 02 12:14:55 maybe I do Jul 02 12:14:57 oops Jul 02 12:15:32 what exactly do you want to do? Jul 02 12:16:04 boot my phone with either a microsd OS or a initramfs os in a way that will let me mount my ubifs rootfs Jul 02 12:16:15 and fix the issue preventing the normal n900 rootfs from booting properly Jul 02 12:16:35 use MeeGo on the eMMC Jul 02 12:16:37 it shouldnt be so damn hard but it is :( Jul 02 12:16:56 I would do meego-on-emmc if I could get usb networking going on my gentoo box Jul 02 12:16:58 but I cant Jul 02 12:17:11 so the n900-de-emmc-installer.sh fails Jul 02 12:17:18 wtf is that Jul 02 12:17:37 do you have the MeeGo raw image? Jul 02 12:18:02 I do Jul 02 12:18:13 do you know how to use gparted? Jul 02 12:18:17 ali1234 , doesn't seem to work on my end Jul 02 12:18:41 jonwil, use GNU Parted to print the offsets of each partition Jul 02 12:18:43 I think I do Jul 02 12:18:50 no Jul 02 12:19:05 jonwil, k, should be easy, is your device close to a full charge? Jul 02 12:19:26 should be Jul 02 12:19:34 anyone aware of a tool that can map a process' execution? Jul 02 12:19:48 jonwil, k, boot the meego rescue initrd image Jul 02 12:19:49 Basically, drawing UML from a process' calls and execution? Jul 02 12:20:08 and install kpartx and gparted on your gentoo Jul 02 12:21:37 if the device shuts down go R&D and kill the watchdogs Jul 02 12:21:47 frals: "Manage maps" in 22-6 seems very broken. It downloads but then doesn't install. Jul 02 12:24:35 ok, installing gparted now Jul 02 12:25:08 jonwil: Unfortunately, I had a bootable OS to start with - If you're not bootable, there's no way to install uboot or whatever. Jul 02 12:25:26 I have a suitable backup of my emmc thanks to the mass storage mode of the ramdisk Jul 02 12:25:38 so I just need to get a bootable OS onto that emmc Jul 02 12:25:41 The only reason I went down that route is that I had no functional USB port on that N900. Jul 02 12:26:08 mount my rootfs, fix my problem, reflash with a maemo emmc and be back in business Jul 02 12:26:16 at least thats what I hope is going to happen Jul 02 12:26:54 jonwil, if you follow my steps you'll have MeeGo working without doing anything to maemo Jul 02 12:27:00 in fact, maemo won't notice it Jul 02 12:27:08 so this wont affect my existing emmc contents? Jul 02 12:27:12 nope Jul 02 12:27:16 ok, great Jul 02 12:27:29 nor will it affect /home or /opt Jul 02 12:27:35 good Jul 02 12:27:47 ok, gparted is still emerging Jul 02 12:27:48 but you'll lose 2GBs of MyDocs Jul 02 12:28:01 if thats what it takes, thats fine Jul 02 12:28:02 instead of 28GBs it'll be 26 Jul 02 12:28:46 ok, ready to boot phone in rescue mode as soon as the steps I can do before booting the phone are done Jul 02 12:29:01 so that I dont waste battery sitting there doing nothing Jul 02 12:29:19 wow, gparted needs a lot of packages Jul 02 12:29:53 probably because my gentoo system is nominally kde Jul 02 12:29:58 heh Jul 02 12:30:58 since I cant do anything until this emerges, I am going to have some food before my body battery runs to empty :) Jul 02 12:31:09 lol Jul 02 12:33:01 whilst I wait for this to emerge, I will plug my phone into the wall charger and get it into the "it wont boot but it charges" mode so I can fill the batttery in the mean time Jul 02 12:33:28 oh you can charge it? I thought you broke it before that Jul 02 12:33:43 if so I suggest you fill it up Jul 02 12:33:54 I think its charging, the charging LED is flashing as normal Jul 02 12:33:57 so I am guessing its charging Jul 02 12:34:06 gparted's gonna take a while to move partitions and stuff, screen will be on and no bme Jul 02 12:35:13 could it be flashing the LED and not charging? Jul 02 12:35:56 doubt it myself :P Jul 02 12:37:09 I assume I will be activating usb storage mode on the initrd Jul 02 12:38:05 jonwil, yes Jul 02 12:38:09 ping me when you're back, I have a fullscreen youtube vid running Jul 02 12:38:11 ok Jul 02 12:38:14 will ping you Jul 02 12:38:25 once gparted is installed Jul 02 12:42:14 a note for the future is that one should NOT hand-edit anything in /etc Jul 02 12:42:36 jonwil, always use templates ;) Jul 02 12:42:44 * ruskie always hand edits Jul 02 12:42:50 but also always backups Jul 02 12:43:03 my guess is that dbus is failing to init due to my edit Jul 02 12:43:14 and therefore it cant do what it needs to do Jul 02 12:43:17 i have templates for startup scripts, system scripts and network scripts Jul 02 12:43:17 and boot Jul 02 12:43:25 jonwil, y u edit dbus? Jul 02 12:43:41 i dont remember anything being tunable there Jul 02 12:43:44 trying to enable eavsdropping Jul 02 12:43:59 which was a bad idea Jul 02 12:44:28 ah Jul 02 12:44:57 yeah, then again, dbus monitor doesnt spit out much on maemo Jul 02 12:45:04 mite b useful Jul 02 12:45:29 Its a guess that thats what stuffed things up since that was the last thing I did before it failed Jul 02 12:47:02 Hurrian, sure it does... just need to hook to the right one Jul 02 12:55:56 my god gtkmm takes ages to compile :( Jul 02 12:58:13 That's what happens when you run Gentoo. Jul 02 13:21:08 MohammadAG: ping. Jul 02 13:21:51 MohammadAG: I think I found the way to disable swipe: an atom called _MEEGOTOUCH_CANNOT_MINIMIZE Jul 02 13:22:38 jonwil: you're always searching for things to RE, no? mce was a really great candidate Jul 02 13:22:55 javispedro, how the hell did you find that Jul 02 13:23:21 ok, gparted is installed Jul 02 13:23:24 Whats the next step? Jul 02 13:23:34 boot the initrd Jul 02 13:23:38 again it may shutdown in 30s Jul 02 13:23:44 so use R&D mode Jul 02 13:23:53 MohammadAG: /usr/lib/mcompositor/*swipe*.so uses it Jul 02 13:24:01 ok, R&D is on Jul 02 13:24:01 * DocScrutinizer searches periodic system and decides this has to be a new element created by this atom Jul 02 13:24:14 DocScrutinizer: an X11 atom Jul 02 13:24:23 well Jul 02 13:24:28 jonwil, with watchdogs off? Jul 02 13:24:31 yes Jul 02 13:24:36 technically, it's a property. I just call them atoms because property names are atoms =) Jul 02 13:24:41 javispedro: So an app could take over the screen and try and prevent people getting out of it. For face recognition locking etc.? Jul 02 13:24:56 Jaffa, more likes games with swiping Jul 02 13:24:58 or games Jul 02 13:24:58 like angry birds Jul 02 13:25:02 MohammadAG++ Jul 02 13:25:02 Ah Jul 02 13:25:17 You have to start *right* at the edge of the screen to get a swipe going though Jul 02 13:25:18 jonwil, boot the initrd and enable mass storage Jul 02 13:25:28 done that Jul 02 13:25:29 Jaffa, yes, but you might do that by mistake Jul 02 13:25:40 MohammadAG: You might, yes. Jul 02 13:25:44 ok, gparted is up Jul 02 13:25:46 paused games should reenable swiping Jul 02 13:26:05 jonwil, you should have 3 partitions and 64(?) MBs of unpartitioned space Jul 02 13:26:08 Jaffa: on sbox sdk it has happened to me accidentally already twice or more Jul 02 13:26:11 yep, I can see that Jul 02 13:26:15 What options do I want to pick next? Jul 02 13:26:21 (though it is easier on sbox at least) Jul 02 13:26:33 I see fat32 and ext3 and swap Jul 02 13:26:46 jonwil, you'll want to resize the fat32 partition, make the new size after it 2048 Jul 02 13:27:08 you then want to move all partitions so this new unpartitioned space is at the end Jul 02 13:27:18 MohammadAG, javispedro: could turn ugly though, if the app decides it doesn't want to turn it back on Jul 02 13:27:32 then you'll need to make a new partition, of exactly 2048, don't f with the unpartitioned space Jul 02 13:27:37 new size in mib is what? Jul 02 13:27:37 Termana, very ugly Jul 02 13:27:39 Does the N9/N950 have a reset button? Jul 02 13:27:41 2048 Jul 02 13:27:43 Jaffa: I hope there's a gconf key or whatever to define/tweak such parameters like "what is >right at the edge<, in pixels" Jul 02 13:27:45 currently its 27652 Jul 02 13:27:46 Termana: yes, as well as power button Jul 02 13:27:47 Termana, hard power off Jul 02 13:27:55 jonwil, there should be three fields Jul 02 13:27:58 Termana: force quitting the app makes compositor reenable swipe Jul 02 13:28:01 0 27652 0 Jul 02 13:28:15 Jaffa: >how long to press&hold for menu to pop up< Jul 02 13:28:15 the last field states new size after partition or something, change it from 0 to 2048 Jul 02 13:28:27 Ok, so some developer will just look like a fool then, not a deal breaker Jul 02 13:29:06 jonwil, "Free space following (MiB)" Jul 02 13:29:14 ok, I see Jul 02 13:29:21 Need to emerge dosfstools to manage fat Jul 02 13:29:34 should take no time :) Jul 02 13:29:46 yep, done already Jul 02 13:30:17 ok, resizing Jul 02 13:30:34 what do I change to the second partition? Jul 02 13:30:42 /me bought a new notebook after losing his in London the weekend before last. Jul 02 13:30:51 Though, still need to replace my nice pencil .. Jul 02 13:31:00 Termana: UI guidelines actually suggest disabling swipe for games: https://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/pages/Full_Screen.html Jul 02 13:31:28 ok, now shrinking /dev/stc1 from 27.00gib to 25.00gib Jul 02 13:31:54 jonwil, sec, looking for a pic Jul 02 13:32:00 done the steps I need to do Jul 02 13:32:09 I have the other 2 partitons moved to fill the gap Jul 02 13:32:22 once these 3 ops are done, I will create the 4th partition for meego Jul 02 13:32:35 now moving /dev/sdc2 to the left Jul 02 13:32:44 jonwil, http://i51.tinypic.com/10h6fpx.jpg Jul 02 13:33:08 ignore the extended part, just make a primary ext4 partition Jul 02 13:33:10 guys is it possible that my code fails under the MADDE thingy but runs on its own? Jul 02 13:34:43 to complete the swipe experience it would be nice to close apps by swiping them out, like the webos =) Jul 02 13:34:49 (in the task switcher view) Jul 02 13:35:25 ok let me rephrase that.... i know it's possible as it's happening ... does it make any sense? Jul 02 13:35:28 javispedro: swiping down from the top closes apaplications Jul 02 13:35:29 doesn't work with scrolling downwards :P Jul 02 13:35:43 alterego: I know, that's why I added the inside parentheses part Jul 02 13:36:01 ok, /dev/sdc2 is still being copied, it says "copying 272.00mib of 1.66gib" Jul 02 13:36:03 javispedro: Ah right, well, yeah, like MohammadAG said, it'd interfere with scrolling Jul 02 13:36:16 jonwil, give it time Jul 02 13:36:21 yeah giving it time Jul 02 13:36:26 so just make it so you swipe left or right =) Jul 02 13:36:37 Maybe a diagonal from top left to bottom right Jul 02 13:36:42 (of the thumbnail) Jul 02 13:36:44 doesn't work with swiping between 3 views Jul 02 13:36:57 MohammadAG: ok, good point. Jul 02 13:37:10 I'd love an always visible X button Jul 02 13:37:21 in the task switcher Jul 02 13:37:21 MohammadAG: waste of screen estate Jul 02 13:37:30 alterego, task switcher ;) Jul 02 13:37:34 I think I'd prefer a close button when the app is actually shown., Jul 02 13:37:42 MohammadAG: I know, waste of screen estate :P Jul 02 13:37:47 how? :P Jul 02 13:37:51 the X button is overlaid Jul 02 13:37:59 Sure, and it looks crappy :P Jul 02 13:38:11 MohammadAG: i dont think the always visible X would be as good as just getting out of X mode by touching an appwindow in center Jul 02 13:38:31 right now you have to hit the Done button in footer, which is clumsy esp. for maemo people Jul 02 13:38:46 shouting elop at a window should close it Jul 02 13:38:52 :D Jul 02 13:38:54 macmaN: I agree there, empty space press should dismiss it like it does with dialogs. Jul 02 13:39:10 ok, the screen has now gone blank, is this normal? Jul 02 13:39:11 * alterego continues working on "rx components" Jul 02 13:39:12 :) Jul 02 13:39:14 Its still copying Jul 02 13:39:19 jonwil, yes, don't touch the keyboard Jul 02 13:39:26 ok, I wont touch the device at all Jul 02 13:39:28 MohammadAG, $50 and I'll make it happen... joking :p Jul 02 13:39:35 hiemanshu said earlier that post n950 firmware has had 3000 bug fixes Jul 02 13:40:00 im liking how facebook app obeys Hides Jul 02 13:40:10 i can only hope the Twitter app can also do the same Jul 02 13:41:03 alterego: Down swipe doesn't work in the 22-6 image we get :-( Jul 02 13:41:14 macmaN: Yeah, konttori said it last night Jul 02 13:41:17 Jaffa: I know, I just heard it's in N9 production image. Jul 02 13:41:18 :/ Jul 02 13:41:26 Jaffa, did you dd mmcblk0 somewhere? Jul 02 13:41:30 I wish they'd drop the "developer edition" branding .. Jul 02 13:41:30 alterego: RX components? An abstraction of Qt & MeeGo UX? Jul 02 13:41:36 since the flashing image online is older than 22-6 Jul 02 13:41:49 MohammadAG: Hmm, no. Jul 02 13:41:51 alterego, why, it's 1337 Jul 02 13:42:12 MohammadAG: It looks fugly in portrait when your operator is "vodafone UK" ;-) Jul 02 13:42:13 Jaffa: neah, my own custom toolkit for my type of apps (Columbus) Jul 02 13:42:25 alterego: Ah Jul 02 13:42:31 change your operator :P Jul 02 13:43:32 ok, good, up to moving /dev/sdc3 Jul 02 13:44:09 jonwil, you're moving them by dragging the box right? Jul 02 13:44:12 o/ wazd Jul 02 13:44:29 yes I am Jul 02 13:44:44 MohammadAG: "O2" is short, but they're also shit. (Vodafone's not great either, but hey) Jul 02 13:45:06 ok so I have a .raw file ready to flash Jul 02 13:45:22 size says its 3816816641 bytes Jul 02 13:45:41 Jaffa, mine's "orange", any ideas if that'll fit? Jul 02 13:45:52 jonwil, that's where kpartx comes in Jul 02 13:45:59 it's actually less than 2GBs Jul 02 13:46:11 sudo kpartx -a rawfilename Jul 02 13:46:18 I cant find a kpartx gentoo ebuild Jul 02 13:46:55 aha, found it Jul 02 13:47:01 I need to emerge multipath-tools Jul 02 13:47:09 yeah Jul 02 13:47:21 sys-fs/multipath-tools-0.4.8-r1 (/sbin/kpartx) Jul 02 13:47:24 oops, late. Jul 02 13:49:03 ok, new partiton created Jul 02 13:49:20 left the unpartitioned space right? Jul 02 13:49:21 as ext4 Jul 02 13:49:27 yes the 64mib Jul 02 13:49:39 good, messing that up can make the device unbootable afaik Jul 02 13:49:51 ok, kpartx installed Jul 02 13:50:01 jonwil, the ext4 partiton is number 4 right? Jul 02 13:50:05 partition* Jul 02 13:50:06 yes Jul 02 13:50:18 MyDocs is 1 and /home is 3 amiright? Jul 02 13:50:20 I have fat32, ext3, swap, ext4 Jul 02 13:50:48 yeah, my bad Jul 02 13:50:56 ok, so I ran kpartx -a filename Jul 02 13:50:56 anyway Jul 02 13:50:59 MohammadAG: Probably - just. Jul 02 13:51:11 is /mnt empty? Jul 02 13:51:14 it didnt seem to do anything Jul 02 13:51:24 if so Jul 02 13:51:37 mount /dev/mapper/loop0p1 /mnt Jul 02 13:51:53 now mount the 4th partition somewhere Jul 02 13:52:04 and sudo cp -a /mnt/* /4thpartition/ Jul 02 13:52:05 kpartx did nothing to the file Jul 02 13:52:13 actually it did Jul 02 13:52:21 even though the size didnt change? Jul 02 13:52:22 ok Jul 02 13:52:23 you should have /dev/mapper/loop0p[1-3] Jul 02 13:52:41 which are the .raw file contents Jul 02 13:53:07 hold a second, I need to compile ext4 as a module Jul 02 13:53:12 my kernel doesnt seem to have it from the looks of it Jul 02 13:53:19 change it to ext3 then ;) Jul 02 13:53:27 I don't think MeeGo cares about partition type Jul 02 13:53:34 too late, already done Jul 02 13:53:38 the compile kernel Jul 02 13:53:44 just compiling the one module Jul 02 13:53:47 o_O Jul 02 13:53:48 oh Jul 02 13:53:55 for ext4 Jul 02 13:55:19 I'm assuming you mounted both the image and the partition then? Jul 02 13:57:09 ok, cp -a going now Jul 02 13:57:23 next up, how do I boot into this image? Jul 02 13:57:41 well Jul 02 13:57:45 make another mount point Jul 02 13:57:45 I assume I just need a kernel I can load with -l Jul 02 13:58:00 then mount /dev/mapper/loop0p3 on it Jul 02 13:58:04 inside, you'll find 4 files Jul 02 13:58:15 a vmlinuz, the kernel, and a config-*, the kernel config Jul 02 13:58:25 cat config* | grep CMDLINE Jul 02 13:58:37 change the cmdline so it root is /dev/mmcblk0p4 Jul 02 13:59:01 take out any microSDs, and use flasher-3.5 -k vmlinuz -l --boot=$modified_cmdline Jul 02 14:00:06 ok, I have no microsd in the phone Jul 02 14:00:12 still doing the cp -a Jul 02 14:00:31 I hope this meego image has what I need to mount NAND Jul 02 14:00:46 you need mtd-utils in MeeGo Jul 02 14:00:55 zypper refresh && zypper install mtd-utils afaik Jul 02 14:00:59 but we'll get to that later Jul 02 14:01:05 oh and it has sshd out of the box Jul 02 14:01:16 main thing is to get meego booting so I can start the battery recharging again Jul 02 14:01:26 which I assume it will do Jul 02 14:02:29 yep, it has bme Jul 02 14:02:31 ok, booting new kernel now Jul 02 14:02:52 cp -a done? Jul 02 14:03:03 yes that worked Jul 02 14:03:04 that finished Jul 02 14:03:35 its now sitting on a line which says "mmcblk0 p1 p2 p3 p4" Jul 02 14:04:19 javispedro, after a lot of attempts, I got a half decent icon using your icon generator. But I had to use Inkscape to do a trace over it and then remove the white background to make it transparent. http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/hicg/files/4e0ed03562ac9_icon.png Jul 02 14:04:23 it says " Jul 02 14:04:44 aha, my fault, wrong kernel command line Jul 02 14:04:48 jonwil: do I get that right yu're nuking your device by installing meego to eMMC now, for sole purpose to fix the dbus cfg edit you did? ;-D Jul 02 14:04:48 He has a hole in his head :( :p Jul 02 14:05:09 no, this isnt nuking it, its a separate partition Jul 02 14:05:34 ok, meego is up Jul 02 14:05:37 nice spashscreen Jul 02 14:05:42 Termana: http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/hicg/files/4e0ead3f289f0_src.svg it also has a hole in the original file Jul 02 14:05:56 I'm yet wondering if a meego install on a uSD wouldn't have done as well Jul 02 14:06:06 except that I only have a 1gb microsd Jul 02 14:06:11 which is the root of the problem Jul 02 14:06:17 lol Jul 02 14:06:19 Termana: does this come from an automated raster to vector tracing software? Jul 02 14:06:33 ok, its sitting on the splashscreen saying "meego 1.2 community edition" Jul 02 14:06:41 jonwil, generating ssh keys Jul 02 14:06:45 first boot takes a while Jul 02 14:06:47 jonwil: lrn2backup ;-P Jul 02 14:06:59 ok, now the screen has gone blank but backlit Jul 02 14:07:07 which is normal Jul 02 14:07:16 ok, its up Jul 02 14:07:25 javispedro, yeah I know (wasn't implying the generator did it :p) - when I removed the white background and made it transparent it took out the white shine in it's head and I didn't notice until I ran it through the generator :P Jul 02 14:08:02 javispedro, depends what you mean by automated - I used Inkscape, which does it automatically by going through one of the menus and selecting a couple of options Jul 02 14:08:02 ok, so whats the next step to mount my flash and fix my problem? Jul 02 14:08:24 Termana: you might need to cover the hole manually if inkscape refuses :( Jul 02 14:08:36 jonwil: I do an rsync via cron each night. Flashing a clean rootfs and then restoring all from backup, less the dbus cfg would probably have been less effort Jul 02 14:08:39 or editing the svg file Jul 02 14:08:47 javispedro, I thought I'd just leave the hole their ;) Jul 02 14:08:48 (by text editor :P ) Jul 02 14:08:52 I see a telephone icon, letter icon, 4 squares, globe icon and camera icon Jul 02 14:08:55 there* Jul 02 14:09:09 jonwil, that's meego :p Jul 02 14:09:10 yeah from now on I will install some sort of backup solution such as backupmenu Jul 02 14:09:36 the dominant color extraction has also faled there, unless you wanted black =).I saw that there are some papers about good dominant color extraction which I'llr ead when I have the time. Jul 02 14:09:42 ok, firstly how do I pick my wifi Jul 02 14:09:50 jonwil, menu settings Jul 02 14:09:55 you'll figure out the rest Jul 02 14:10:04 wifi " Jul 02 14:10:10 I can do Jul 02 14:10:17 mounting the ubifs I dont know Jul 02 14:10:32 open terminal Jul 02 14:10:40 oh actually yeah, connect to wifi first Jul 02 14:10:58 ok, associating Jul 02 14:11:03 javispedro, well originally I thought it would be good if it worked ok. But then it came out black and I liked it. You should make it so people can choose the colours rather than only have the option of extracting them ;) Jul 02 14:11:30 ok, wifi is go Jul 02 14:11:34 now what do I do next? Jul 02 14:11:55 open terminal and install mtd-utils? Jul 02 14:12:04 yep Jul 02 14:12:12 zypper refresh && zypper install mtd-utils Jul 02 14:12:49 how do I get root? Jul 02 14:12:54 su root Jul 02 14:12:57 pass is "meego" Jul 02 14:13:32 ok, refereshing Jul 02 14:14:40 now plugged into wall charger to ensure it stays full Jul 02 14:15:07 giving me errors about unsigned crap Jul 02 14:15:11 which I am saying yes to Jul 02 14:15:17 repomd.xml Jul 02 14:15:18 yeah, I get that too Jul 02 14:15:37 meego is definatly not as polished on the N900 as maemo is Jul 02 14:15:44 just feels different Jul 02 14:15:44 indeed Jul 02 14:15:51 but it's in development ;) Jul 02 14:15:59 now grabbing oss-1.2-daily Jul 02 14:16:33 hmm, aegis aside, should a binary from MeeGo 1.2 work on the N9? Jul 02 14:16:51 so yeah I should either be able to fix dbus and boot maemo again Jul 02 14:17:07 or failing that, mount nand, copy the contents off then reflash nand Jul 02 14:17:18 MohammadAG: ? Jul 02 14:18:25 without recompilation Jul 02 14:18:26 ok, mtd-utils installed. How do I mount NAND? Jul 02 14:18:41 umm, mount -t ubi0:rootfs /mnt afaik Jul 02 14:18:48 drop the "-t" Jul 02 14:19:02 MohammadAG: you mean meegoCE -> meegoHarmattan? Jul 02 14:19:20 DocScrutinizer, yes Jul 02 14:19:25 both are hardfp, omap3, etc Jul 02 14:19:28 test it, always depends Jul 02 14:19:36 depends what the binary needs Jul 02 14:19:40 yep Jul 02 14:20:08 mount -t ubifs ubi0:rootfs /mnt jonwil Jul 02 14:20:17 frals, if libs are present on both Jul 02 14:20:23 ok, that last command line says "unknown filesystem type ubifs" Jul 02 14:20:24 point is, I don't have to recompile for both right? Jul 02 14:20:34 ugh Jul 02 14:20:39 sec Jul 02 14:21:13 jonwil, zypper install mtd-utils-ubi Jul 02 14:21:23 ok, thanks Jul 02 14:21:43 says "nothing provides perl(config::inifiles) Jul 02 14:21:54 gives me the option to ignore the missing dep or not to install Jul 02 14:22:00 ignore it Jul 02 14:22:36 ok, we have mount Jul 02 14:22:40 or not Jul 02 14:22:46 same error, unknown filesystem type Jul 02 14:23:08 MohammadAG: if its compiled against the same libs, it "should" work, i guess Jul 02 14:23:11 try ubiattach /dev/ubi_ctrl -m 5 first Jul 02 14:23:23 o.O Jul 02 14:23:50 it says "write protected, mounting read only" Jul 02 14:23:59 how do I mount it read-write? Jul 02 14:24:08 mount -t ubifs -o rw,bulk_read,no_chk_data_crc ubi0:rootfs /mnt Jul 02 14:24:28 remount ? Jul 02 14:24:53 still says "write protected, mounting read only" Jul 02 14:25:15 says "block device ubi0:ubifs is write protected, mounting read-only" Jul 02 14:25:17 hmm, can ubifs be fscked? Jul 02 14:25:31 errrr Jul 02 14:26:33 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=73751 Jul 02 14:26:38 jonwil: maybe first check if you can *read* it now? Jul 02 14:26:45 I can read it Jul 02 14:28:29 wont let me mount it rw Jul 02 14:28:58 SO close and yet so far Jul 02 14:29:05 If I can mount it rw I can fix my config Jul 02 14:29:10 and be back in business Jul 02 14:29:15 I wonder if there's a force option Jul 02 14:31:21 I dont know Jul 02 14:31:58 you unmounted it and then mounted with all the nice -o magic spell? Jul 02 14:32:08 Hah, my dad has started using my PGP key :D Jul 02 14:32:44 yes I did Jul 02 14:32:46 and it wont mount Jul 02 14:32:59 dmesg does say "recovery needed" and "recovery deferred" Jul 02 14:33:08 hmm, I wonder if /dev/mtd is related Jul 02 14:33:16 ouch Jul 02 14:33:30 it says "read-only ubi device" Jul 02 14:34:05 everything in /dev is rw for root Jul 02 14:34:45 ideas? Jul 02 14:35:01 "recovery deferred" means ubifs knows there has sth to be done. Need to find a way to force it to do it Jul 02 14:35:22 Is there a ubick? Jul 02 14:35:45 no sign of any ubkfsck Jul 02 14:35:48 or fsck.ubifs Jul 02 14:36:10 What would people call the widget that displays speed and bearing in my app: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/columbus/index.html Jul 02 14:36:16 nah, ubifs is different Jul 02 14:36:18 "NumericIndicator" doesn't really cut it for me .. Jul 02 14:36:51 jonwil, try rebooting into maemo and doing a clean shutdown Jul 02 14:36:55 Numberwang Jul 02 14:37:02 except that I cant because maemo wont boot Jul 02 14:37:04 remember Jul 02 14:37:11 SpeedEvil: now that's a good one ;) Jul 02 14:37:12 it goes into a "hey, I cant boot" loop Jul 02 14:37:25 since dbus isnt working Jul 02 14:37:32 alterego: dashboard? Jul 02 14:37:58 jonwil: there has to be some mountoption or cmd that triggers "fsck" for ubifs Jul 02 14:38:17 alterego: you mean the speed and bearing display - or you mean thte large white numbers on it? Jul 02 14:38:19 frals: ? Specifically just that "000.00 (mph)" widget Jul 02 14:38:41 not necessarily Jul 02 14:38:45 (fsck ubifs) Jul 02 14:38:51 SpeedEvil: the large numbers (including the units indication) Jul 02 14:39:00 alterego: oh, dunno then... "SpeedAndBearingIndicator"! Jul 02 14:39:06 Heh# Jul 02 14:39:07 javispedro: dmesg does say "recovery needed" and "recovery deferred" Jul 02 14:39:09 speedometer and compass Jul 02 14:39:09 if ubifs does crc checking by default (and I think it does) Jul 02 14:39:19 I'm trying to make a general widget :P Jul 02 14:39:34 It could be speed, distance, well, anything, this is part of my components .. Jul 02 14:39:35 alterego: 'large number overlay' ? Jul 02 14:39:40 ok, booting back into meego Jul 02 14:39:50 SpeedEvil: not necessarily and overlay either :P Jul 02 14:39:58 Oh well, "NumberIndicator" it is then .. Jul 02 14:40:38 eeew Jul 02 14:40:43 I think really you had your heart set on NumberIndicator from the start, but you wanted to consult the channel so when people laugh at you later you can say no one came up with anything better Jul 02 14:40:44 recovery deferred should only appear if mounted RO Jul 02 14:40:45 :p Jul 02 14:41:06 Termana: not realy, I don't like the name but it's all I can come up with :P Jul 02 14:41:14 ok, something has happened and its working now Jul 02 14:41:18 javispedro: it gets mounted ro Jul 02 14:41:30 jonwil: haha Jul 02 14:41:33 \o/ Jul 02 14:42:02 probably a reboot kicked it back into clean state Jul 02 14:42:31 probably the screwed mounting process and late module loading made the difference Jul 02 14:43:52 jonwil: consider to prepare sth for the "masses" from your experience :-) Jul 02 14:44:13 e.g a scriptfile or whatever Jul 02 14:44:33 ok, lets see if it boots Jul 02 14:44:49 now that I restored /etc/dbus-1/system.conf from an old old rootfs copy I had Jul 02 14:45:06 whould shouldn't it? Jul 02 14:45:24 as long as you haven't killed /opt ;-P= Jul 02 14:45:47 ok, same error, says "cant chdir to home directory /home/user" Jul 02 14:45:48 or flashed a kernel that doesn't match the modules Jul 02 14:45:55 need to go back to meego and find out why Jul 02 14:46:55 hmm, are you sure your installing of meego to eMMC hasn't completely messed up things on eMMC for maemo - incl /home at large? Jul 02 14:47:05 nope, dont think so, will check Jul 02 14:47:07 _I_'m very sure of that ;) Jul 02 14:47:51 well, go to meego, mount the home partition, do some checks Jul 02 14:48:22 might be messed up by unclean unmount or whatever Jul 02 14:48:39 fsck might help Jul 02 14:50:01 if it's mountable and accessable from meego, and still has same partition number and label and fs type, I can't see what's wrong with /home. Has to be some additional mess you made in maemo then Jul 02 14:50:15 now it claims "wifi is not available on this device" Jul 02 14:50:23 wtf Jul 02 14:50:29 in meego this is Jul 02 14:50:53 let me try a reboot Jul 02 14:50:54 of meego Jul 02 14:51:08 see, this is why the N900 is so cool Jul 02 14:51:15 try doing THIS on an iPhone or Android Jul 02 14:51:17 :P Jul 02 14:51:21 consider occasional removal of battery ;-) Jul 02 14:52:02 would having R&D mode left on be interfering with some of this stuff? Jul 02 14:52:21 5s should be enough to reset whatever usual hw, and still might keep your RTC Jul 02 14:52:31 indeed Jul 02 14:52:48 ok, firstly, lets boot meego again then see if I can see wifi Jul 02 14:53:15 there were some weird reports of R&D getting in the way for something I forgot what it's been Jul 02 14:54:03 wow, magnetometer returns raw data in muT Jul 02 14:54:13 hehe Jul 02 14:54:25 javispedro: fair enough, what else? :-) Jul 02 14:54:28 ok, lets turn off R&D and try the battery thing Jul 02 14:55:10 DocScrutinizer: getting true bearing from magnetic is pain Jul 02 14:55:19 indeed Jul 02 14:55:43 also, one reading every 16ms Jul 02 14:55:45 but getting proper raw values from bearing is impossible ;-) Jul 02 14:56:09 16ms? \o/ makes a nice cable detector Jul 02 14:56:31 note to self: cablefincer app Jul 02 14:56:34 ok, booting meego with R&D off Jul 02 14:57:02 having done the battery thing Jul 02 14:57:08 * jonwil hopes his wifi isnt shot somehow Jul 02 14:57:14 nah!! Jul 02 14:57:40 I guess you just spotted another bug in meegoCE Jul 02 14:57:55 "Driver spends approximately 16ms between starting the read to returning." Jul 02 14:58:46 are there low level commands I can try to check wifi? Jul 02 14:58:50 22 people 11 devices .. Jul 02 14:59:11 Gotta give Quim credit, working on a Saturday. Jul 02 14:59:13 well, if that means the readings are same timeframe, then it's mre than appropriate for detecting 50/60Hz magnetic fields Jul 02 14:59:28 news?? Jul 02 15:00:01 You think you can use the magnetometer for detecting live cables? Jul 02 15:00:17 mhm Jul 02 15:00:22 It'll only work when the circuits are actually _on_ though Jul 02 15:00:24 alterego: yep Jul 02 15:00:32 and yep Jul 02 15:00:36 Like, you'd have to have all your lights on, mains plugs on with stuff plugged in etc. Jul 02 15:00:39 :) Jul 02 15:00:45 Still, it sounds like an awesome idea. Jul 02 15:00:56 Has anyone done anything similar in iPhone Android camp? Jul 02 15:01:03 indeed, I think it is an awesome idea :-D Jul 02 15:01:17 nfc, what's iPhone? Jul 02 15:01:25 :) Jul 02 15:01:39 If you want a nice QML UI ;) Jul 02 15:02:29 so yeah how can I get wifi going again on this thing in meego? :P Jul 02 15:03:53 or how can I mount my emmc? Jul 02 15:03:54 I've had another thought, wrt digital compass Jul 02 15:03:56 nice Jul 02 15:04:12 still not refused nor accepted.. Jul 02 15:04:24 My phone is always in my pocket same orientation, means it's pointing in roughly the same direction in my local geometry. Jul 02 15:04:33 got mail from Quim, to explain further my intentions.. :) Jul 02 15:04:45 jonwil, also got that bug on MeeGo, rebooting fixed it Jul 02 15:04:48 Hmm, browser on N950 can't SSL handshake with (forum.)meego.com Jul 02 15:04:56 tried rebooting already Jul 02 15:04:58 lol Jul 02 15:05:01 So from that, if you recoreded readings from GPS, accel & compass, you could then use that to create an avatar of yourself in a virtual world, which included the direction you were looking. Jul 02 15:05:03 alterego: I'm happy to offer the low level stuff and leave the "nice QML UI" to you Jul 02 15:05:11 DocScrutinizer: sounds like a plan. Jul 02 15:05:21 deal Jul 02 15:06:05 * alterego starts modifying his custom compass widget to display digital compass and GPS heading data. Jul 02 15:08:02 ok, my ext3 filesystem (opt etc) mounts fine in meego Jul 02 15:08:06 no errors Jul 02 15:08:08 or issues Jul 02 15:08:26 ok, so I am stuck as to the next step Jul 02 15:08:41 I cant get wifi going in meego so backup-and-reflash isnt simple Jul 02 15:09:46 * GAN900 sighs Jul 02 15:09:54 Good thing the N950 is coming Jul 02 15:09:58 going to power off again, pull battery and see what goes Jul 02 15:10:04 The cellmo on this thing seems to be slowly dying. Jul 02 15:11:44 ideas would be appreciated... Jul 02 15:12:27 GAN900: wassup? Jul 02 15:12:50 How can you tell? Are you talking about N900? Jul 02 15:13:38 jonwil: use your 1GB uSD for backup, reflash Jul 02 15:13:47 * alterego wonders how digital compass can help with panoramic photos Jul 02 15:13:48 ok, good idea Jul 02 15:14:08 jonwil: alternativel just use scp if you're in meego Jul 02 15:14:18 Or, usb mass storage mode. Jul 02 15:14:28 GAN900: I wanna 'join' SnapGo team, on a consulting basis Jul 02 15:14:37 alterego, don't receive text messages Jul 02 15:14:43 until I reboot Jul 02 15:14:47 GAN900: eek :D Jul 02 15:14:53 and it doesn't have a data connect until I reboot Jul 02 15:15:07 :/ Jul 02 15:15:14 DocScrutinizer, OK, you're in. :P Jul 02 15:15:17 How long have you had it? Jul 02 15:15:19 :-) Jul 02 15:15:31 Since end of last year. Jul 02 15:15:38 I cant get any wifi from meego Jul 02 15:15:42 also the backlight is now dark Jul 02 15:15:44 GAN900: if you want an N8 upgrade send it to Nok repair ;) Jul 02 15:15:56 "upgrade" Jul 02 15:16:02 Hehe Jul 02 15:16:03 jonwil: usb .. Jul 02 15:16:09 I'll wait until the N9s are out Jul 02 15:16:15 Maybe I'll get lucky Jul 02 15:16:17 Heh Jul 02 15:16:21 I doubt it .. Jul 02 15:16:52 I think I might work on my digital compass+accel orientation widget :) Jul 02 15:17:04 It's a sphere, obviously ^.^ Jul 02 15:17:44 does meego include usbnet by default? Jul 02 15:18:00 jonwil: it's the default state yeah Jul 02 15:19:09 ok, so how do Jul 02 15:19:15 I use usbnet then if it wont work on linux Jul 02 15:19:38 on my gentoo Jul 02 15:20:25 I can see the drivers on windows Jul 02 15:20:30 for obex, phonet Jul 02 15:20:34 Google mystified other participants in an auction for patents last week by their choice of bids. They weren't the round regular numbers that are normally expected. After first bidding $1,902,160,540  a reference to Brun's constant  and later bidding $2,614,972,128 for the Meissel-Mertens constant, they ended up submitting a bid for $3.14159 billion. Jul 02 15:20:38 what do I do to use usbnet? Jul 02 15:21:53 ok, found the info Jul 02 15:22:16 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=73315 what is this about? magic speed patch, did anyone try it? Jul 02 15:22:21 In the rest of the auction Google also bet the distance between the earth and the sun and a few other odd values. Jul 02 15:22:44 Shapeshifter: bullshit. Jul 02 15:24:09 nope, cant get usbnet to work on windows or linux Jul 02 15:24:34 I love how they all spell 'overclock'... Jul 02 15:24:36 PS: DIDN'T OVERLOAKED Jul 02 15:25:49 RST38h: WTF?! Jul 02 15:26:02 Doc: Which F are you relating to? Jul 02 15:26:30 Google's F Jul 02 15:26:48 do you see the 14 "F" in "Google"? Jul 02 15:28:11 A: a word with 14 "F" - Q: What's Google? Jul 02 15:28:39 Doc: I see 10^100 in Google Jul 02 15:31:14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-T_w_QXXms Jul 02 15:35:07 Shapeshifter: overlocaking ROTFL Jul 02 15:35:55 mere GOLD >> 6-) Also Noticed that overcloaking while the patch is installed gets more effective ex: without the patch overloaking to 700 mhz gives no better performance But when the patch is installed overloaking to 700 mhz is just like overlocaking to 900 mhz without the patch Jul 02 15:36:38 wow, quim gil works on saturdays? 4th round is there Jul 02 15:36:46 yoh Jul 02 15:36:51 wow nice Jul 02 15:37:20 hiemanshu, hey :) Jul 02 15:37:30 no news on the Launchpad / Device Distrubution front though :-S Jul 02 15:37:48 I gather nobody's working on Saturdays in Tampere ;-D Jul 02 15:37:52 DocScrutinizer: be patient, and rant about aegis :P Jul 02 15:37:56 so just a quick follow up from last night... when i run the app without starting it from the qtcreator madde thing it works Jul 02 15:37:57 lol Jul 02 15:37:59 OK Jul 02 15:38:10 AEGIS AEGIS AEGIS AEGIS AEGIS WAAAAAH!!! Jul 02 15:38:22 whats wrong with the aegis thing? Jul 02 15:39:08 MoonTiger: It's the incarnation of DRM and trusted platform as invented by the copyright industry -basically it disowns you from your device Jul 02 15:39:26 DocScrutinizer, and its on the N9??? Jul 02 15:39:27 MoonTiger: maybe because you are placing the db in the wrong palce? Jul 02 15:39:36 MoonTiger: it's on N950 Jul 02 15:39:43 hiemanshu, i think its to do with the way it gets run from the madde thing Jul 02 15:39:47 DocScrutinizer: what is? Jul 02 15:39:49 MoonTiger: nobody knows if it will be on N9 Jul 02 15:39:52 DocScrutinizer, unbelievable Jul 02 15:40:08 no way im buying one then Jul 02 15:40:29 DocScrutinizer: what sort of drm? Jul 02 15:40:30 MoonTiger: ah ok Jul 02 15:40:49 i mean it has to be on the N9 no? they are in bed with MS now and if the dev device has it it will have to be on the prod device no? Jul 02 15:40:56 MoonTiger: wait and don't worry, aegis might get nuked before any N9 hits the market Jul 02 15:41:07 DocScrutinizer: what is it meant to do? Jul 02 15:41:26 DocScrutinizer, im still not sure about the N9 .... i have an android device if i want touch screen .... i want a keyboard Jul 02 15:41:49 jacekowski: dunno what it's *meant* to do on N950, the question however is what it *can* do and what it *will* do Jul 02 15:42:00 hiemanshu, the madde ting starts the app from a remote ssh link .... i wonder if it is running as a diff user id Jul 02 15:42:08 what is it doing now? Jul 02 15:42:13 MoonTiger: developer mostly Jul 02 15:42:19 getting in the way ;-D Jul 02 15:42:34 that doesnt have write permissions for the db file Jul 02 15:42:38 or something Jul 02 15:42:39 what is going to stop working if you just disable it? Jul 02 15:42:42 makes no sense tho Jul 02 15:42:56 jacekowski, prolly the media decoding etc Jul 02 15:43:13 jacekowski: you can sorta disable it, but then no more access to "trusted" parts Jul 02 15:43:14 otherwise no point having it there Jul 02 15:43:15 DocScrutinizer: so 11 devices and 22 people left Jul 02 15:43:46 hiemanshu: I don't follow closely anymore, but sounds about right Jul 02 15:43:55 DocScrutinizer: I checked :P Jul 02 15:44:09 I barely know a few people out of the 250 Jul 02 15:44:15 did anyone get any forther with the rootfs.lzo? Jul 02 15:44:36 hi ali1234 :-D Jul 02 15:44:53 i posted a script to uncompress it earlier Jul 02 15:45:04 I've heard no success stories with this special "lzo" flavour Jul 02 15:45:05 but the resulting fs image is not mountable despite being obviously uncompressed Jul 02 15:45:16 so i must have not quite got all the subtleties Jul 02 15:45:25 ali1234, how did you uncompress it? Jul 02 15:45:25 ooooh Jul 02 15:45:33 you uncompressed it? Jul 02 15:45:37 http://paste.ubuntu.com/636855/ Jul 02 15:45:38 yes Jul 02 15:45:42 kudos Jul 02 15:45:48 it's not a lzop file at all Jul 02 15:45:59 ali1234: did you try using ndb for mounting it? Jul 02 15:46:00 lzop is like a zip file with archive records, this is just one big file Jul 02 15:46:19 going to go the mmc route Jul 02 15:46:24 but it's split into chunks and each one has a header, then you lzo decompress each chunk Jul 02 15:46:26 and back up my rootfs to my microsd Jul 02 15:46:35 jacekowski: check meego developers wiki, topic security framework (or sth like that) Jul 02 15:46:47 hiemanshu: i only tried to loop mount it, it didn't work, sais invalid journal inode Jul 02 15:46:49 * ShadowJK thought lzo and lzop were different compression formats Jul 02 15:47:00 ShadowJK: no, they are not Jul 02 15:47:29 ShadowJK: lzo is format, and lzop is the app used to compress/decompress lzo Jul 02 15:47:39 even that isn't really correct Jul 02 15:47:52 Oh well - my request for reconsideration for n950 was turned down. Not surprising really - the apps section of my proposal was paper thing. Jul 02 15:47:54 thin Jul 02 15:47:55 lzop is to lzo what tar and gzip are to libgz Jul 02 15:49:13 s/libgz/zlib/ Jul 02 15:49:16 ali1234 meant: lzop is to lzo what tar and gzip are to zlib Jul 02 15:49:45 SpeedEvil: a pity nevertheless, your contributions to wiki alone were more than worth it, to enable other devels do their job Jul 02 15:50:27 I should have started learning Qt a month earrlier. Jul 02 15:50:27 DocScrutinizer: so how long are the devices being loaned to us for? Jul 02 15:50:38 unclear Jul 02 15:50:51 or is really even a loan? Jul 02 15:50:56 unclear Jul 02 15:50:58 +it Jul 02 15:50:58 As long as needed. Jul 02 15:50:58 theres a wiki page somewhere that says "as long as required" Jul 02 15:51:11 hiemanshu: I don't think anyone has been asked for their dev n900s back. Jul 02 15:51:13 hiemanshu, Nokia often uses the term loan. Jul 02 15:51:14 I may be wrong. Jul 02 15:51:25 GAN900: ah ok Jul 02 15:51:32 SpeedEvil: N900 is a mass product Jul 02 15:51:33 It seems to infrequently relate to the actual definition Jul 02 15:51:40 DocScrutinizer: true Jul 02 15:51:41 But it's easier on the taxes. Jul 02 15:51:50 obviously Nokia is short on N950 though Jul 02 15:52:06 DocScrutinizer: But n950 in 6 or 12 months time is not going to be desired. Jul 02 15:52:43 I gather as much, yeah. OTOH another devel might urgently need a device in just 8 weeks Jul 02 15:53:06 True. Jul 02 15:53:16 so those N950 definitely are no giveaways Jul 02 15:54:05 A mail every x weeks saying 'These are new proposals for n950 dev' - if you're not using your n900 for development, please consider returning it at our cost, so we can send it to someone who can better use it' ... Jul 02 15:54:10 would be a good plan. Jul 02 15:54:29 will probably happen Jul 02 15:55:06 s/n900/N950/ Jul 02 15:56:27 i want n950 =) Jul 02 15:56:36 don't we all :p Jul 02 15:57:03 well I have quite a few apps to write/port, and then I want to help out with the meego-ce on the N950 Jul 02 16:03:24 it's debatable if "helping meegoCE" is a valid rationale for keeping this particular loaner Jul 02 16:04:40 probably increasingly will be, on time passing by Jul 02 16:06:37 it quite sure will be as nokia is not going to put its employees to help with it forever Jul 02 16:07:32 well I remember someone telling (not sure if its true) that nokia is making 10k N950s Jul 02 16:08:05 sounds reasonable though Jul 02 16:08:32 starting the manuf line for 500 or 1000 is nonsense Jul 02 16:08:34 why only 250 to community devs then? thats very low Jul 02 16:09:01 maybe they are making prod versions too? Jul 02 16:09:11 i would buy one Jul 02 16:09:46 there've been other rants about a planned 96k units Jul 02 16:10:19 real rumour though Jul 02 16:11:09 i still think the N950 was a prototype run of a planned device that got scrapped Jul 02 16:11:34 opening up the developer programe to mere mortal might be a way for Nokia to go. Still no warranty except for DOA, no support, no marketing... Jul 02 16:12:14 MoonTiger: the N950 was supposed to be released last year Q4 as the N9 Jul 02 16:12:25 But it got delayed, a lot Jul 02 16:12:46 Can anyone address at what time harmattan looked 'ready to ship' ? Jul 02 16:12:50 alterego, right so why are there so few? Jul 02 16:12:53 then there were issues with carriers not appreciating the mech quality, allegedly Jul 02 16:13:04 MoonTiger: because it got scrapped. Jul 02 16:13:09 DocScrutinizer: The hinge design looks damn fragile. Jul 02 16:13:16 they *must* have made more than 250 for a supposed prod launch Jul 02 16:13:22 right Jul 02 16:13:27 thats what i said Jul 02 16:13:28 SpeedEvil: right Jul 02 16:13:32 * MoonTiger sighs Jul 02 16:13:49 MoonTiger: no, but yes, they've made a lot more, but it never got to the point of production being ramped up for general sale. Jul 02 16:14:06 alterego, i don't think they did make a lot more Jul 02 16:14:07 SpeedEvil: isnt it similar to the E7 one? Jul 02 16:14:12 So there are a lot more than 250 Jul 02 16:14:14 but we will all find out later i guess Jul 02 16:14:27 MoonTiger: believe me there is in the region of thousands of them Jul 02 16:14:34 Possible even 10s of thousands. Jul 02 16:14:42 Billions! Jul 02 16:14:55 They were going to give them out free toeveryone in the world, including babies. Jul 02 16:15:02 alterego, i will believe you ... when i see them Jul 02 16:15:03 Take over the market! Jul 02 16:15:11 The 250 figure is purely what has been alotted for free open source developers through MeeGo.com Jul 02 16:15:24 MoonTiger: you'll never see them becauser they're not for sale. Jul 02 16:15:30 well they cannot possibly sell anything with no warranty or support Jul 02 16:15:32 They're packaged as devkits for the N9 Jul 02 16:15:37 it is illegal in most of the world Jul 02 16:15:53 * alterego sighs Jul 02 16:16:16 alterego, i mean see them as in... when they either start selling or someone finds a container full of them at the bottom of the sea Jul 02 16:17:04 No one will sell them, I already told you, they're not for sale. Jul 02 16:17:17 When has anyone said they were ever for sale? Jul 02 16:17:19 and i already said i dont believe they exist in the numbers you claim Jul 02 16:17:20 No one .. Jul 02 16:17:21 ;) Jul 02 16:17:36 That's because you're an idiot that can't read .. Jul 02 16:17:43 really? Jul 02 16:17:48 Yes Jul 02 16:17:53 hmmmmm thanks Jul 02 16:18:11 maybe you could work on your conversation skills? Jul 02 16:18:23 You obviously don't know what you're talking about, you said there are only 250, which is bullshit. Jul 02 16:18:37 If you're at the point in the dev program where you've got a bug-free bit of hardware (or bug free enough) and the production chain is debugged - then 1K or so doesn't make sense to make. Jul 02 16:18:44 what i said is clearly visible up the screen Jul 02 16:18:54 It's much more expensive per unit than 5k or 10k Jul 02 16:18:54 if you cannot understand it try rereading it Jul 02 16:19:06 * MoonTiger shakes head Jul 02 16:19:19 And if you are committed to selling it - you don't want to waste the cash, when you can make the things 30% cheaper. Jul 02 16:20:07 If you'd done some research, you'd know 250 to be distributed for developers through meego.com, There's about 50 being distributed through Qt Ambassador programme, there were about 30 given out in Helsink meego meetup this week, and developers can get them through nokia launchpad to devel apps for the N9 Jul 02 16:20:35 There are also a fair few prototypes in the hands of some people in Nokia and outside that helped develop the platform. Jul 02 16:20:43 MoonTiger: alterego: please gentlemen, stay polite Jul 02 16:20:50 alterego, if you cannot a) have a reasonable conversation without getting personal, or b) cannot read then please don't bother Jul 02 16:21:19 DocScrutinizer, agreed Jul 02 16:21:21 250+50+30 = over 9000, right? Jul 02 16:21:45 MoonTiger: ali1234 I said potentially, as they're pushing for apps through commercial vendors using them as devkits. Jul 02 16:21:52 100500! Jul 02 16:22:01 There are certainly in the rage of thousands Jul 02 16:22:05 range .. Jul 02 16:22:47 alterego, i know you want to believe that is so but until we see them we cannot know ... or have you actually seen them? Jul 02 16:23:35 MoonTiger: no, but they're not going to give all of them to free open source developers when they want commercial application support. Jul 02 16:23:43 this is pissing me off, I cant get usb networking working on either linux or windows, I cant get wifi going in meego and I cant get n900-meego to switch into mass storage mge Jul 02 16:23:57 MoonTiger: there are enough sound indicators to bet on a 4 digit number of N950 existing, if not more Jul 02 16:24:37 all i am saying is when i see them i will believe it ... nokia have f**ked up enough lately and are now in bed with MS ... who knows what is going to happen next Jul 02 16:25:04 and thats *all* im saying Jul 02 16:25:09 MoonTiger: you're never going to see them, why do you think you will? Jul 02 16:25:11 nobody has seen them Jul 02 16:25:28 when they start to appear either for sale or for more developer give aways etc etc Jul 02 16:25:44 nobody will ever see >500 N950 on a pile anywhere ever Jul 02 16:25:46 if they exist we will see them *one day* Jul 02 16:25:52 MoonTiger: Nokia Launchpad Jul 02 16:25:58 can we change topic now please? Jul 02 16:26:02 nokia launchpad? Jul 02 16:26:07 yes please Jul 02 16:26:09 can we Jul 02 16:26:10 ? Jul 02 16:26:18 MoonTiger: by your reasoning the N900 was never for sale or mass produced. Jul 02 16:26:37 alterego: please Jul 02 16:26:50 MoonTiger: find someone that works in the Nokia warehouses and ask them how many N950 devkits there are, roughly. Jul 02 16:27:00 Anyway, i'm off, bbl Jul 02 16:27:39 MoonTiger: Nokia have no motivation to sell a small number - a few K - of an axed oen. Jul 02 16:27:41 phone Jul 02 16:27:55 MoonTiger: Simply as it would confuse their marketing. Jul 02 16:28:03 And could do nothing positive to the brand image. Jul 02 16:28:05 and service, and whatnot Jul 02 16:28:12 please end this conversation Jul 02 16:28:20 i have my opinion Jul 02 16:28:23 you have yours Jul 02 16:28:30 :) Jul 02 16:28:43 does either of your opinions matter for anything? Jul 02 16:28:52 bingo, usbnet works, I had to manually run the ifconfig command on the n900 Jul 02 16:28:53 no provocation, just wondering Jul 02 16:28:54 http://i.imgur.com/GNeQr.jpg Jul 02 16:28:54 definitely no Jul 02 16:28:55 macmaN, no Jul 02 16:29:13 jonwil: on meego? you could use mad-developer Jul 02 16:29:15 * MoonTiger looks at the kittens Jul 02 16:29:25 ok yeah then pink unicorns are the answer Jul 02 16:31:55 * DocScrutinizer hands out a token to everyone, to receive a pink unicorn via launchpad Jul 02 16:32:20 Doc: is it edible? Jul 02 16:32:22 made of rubber ;-P Jul 02 16:32:37 like boots Jul 02 16:32:39 Doc: you mean, not edible but humpable? Jul 02 16:33:01 or tires Jul 02 16:34:45 is n950's battery builtin as n(? Jul 02 16:34:49 n9?* Jul 02 16:35:51 nope Jul 02 16:35:53 ZogG: you can remove the back-cover if you are determined Jul 02 16:36:06 inside is a standard BL-4D IIRC Jul 02 16:36:23 and n9 is builtin and not for change right? Jul 02 16:36:47 yep Jul 02 16:39:21 konttori said even N9 battery *can* be changed Jul 02 16:39:44 though it's obviously not exactly as simple as on N950 Jul 02 16:40:06 n950 is supereasy to change, just 4 screws Jul 02 16:40:06 ok so the casing is somehow splittable? Jul 02 16:40:22 after that its just superglue and done obv Jul 02 16:40:34 only problem is separating the backcover without breaking it ;D Jul 02 16:40:43 isn't it aluminum? Jul 02 16:40:43 i foresee some "there i fixed it" material in our future Jul 02 16:40:49 frals: achipa even considers "losing" those screws part of the deboxing of N950 :-) Jul 02 16:42:49 Well - kontorri mentioned swapping n9 screens multiple times, and diddn't meantion problems. Jul 02 16:42:52 Which is a plus Jul 02 16:43:02 hehehe Jul 02 16:43:11 So it musn't be _too_ bad for a skilled person to do. The battery'd be much easier. Jul 02 16:43:15 can mean different things Jul 02 16:43:30 yeah Jul 02 16:44:06 I think there's a few screws then the screen and all should just pop out Jul 02 16:44:22 that's what konttori said Jul 02 16:44:23 BTW, the N950 box has a program listing on it. Typing it in was like typing in BBC Model B programs from a computer magazine in the 80s. Jul 02 16:44:37 Unfortunately, no qmlviewer, so I'll have to wait to fire it up in Qt Creator Jul 02 16:44:47 Looks like it tweets something when you press a button Jul 02 16:45:24 Yeah makes sense from some pics I've seen Jul 02 16:45:28 Jaffa: heh Jul 02 16:45:42 Jaffa: watch the source *carefully* before trying it ;) Jul 02 16:46:07 Jaffa: lol - what does the program do? Jul 02 16:46:09 SpeedEvil: did he say he switched the screen himself? Jul 02 16:46:47 frals: I think so. Jul 02 16:47:23 DocScrutinizer: pretends to send a tweet while in reality it might doing something less than that nice :) Jul 02 16:47:35 hehe Jul 02 16:47:38 konttori_home: SpeedEvil, yeah, tons of times when I was changing the display to my device several times a day between different display batches. Jul 02 16:48:34 cool Jul 02 16:48:40 Jaffa: what do you mean by source? Shell commands or summink? Jul 02 16:49:30 frals: he also said the screen is probably >50% of the device's value in hw, iirc Jul 02 16:49:40 Heh Jul 02 16:49:44 guess it might be easy once you do it. none in my team has dared doing it since its nigh impossible for us to get our hands on (spare) devices Jul 02 16:49:59 DocScrutinizer: probably because of the branded "Gorilla Glass" Jul 02 16:50:03 Jaffa: yeah self signed ssl certs are frcked Jul 02 16:50:15 It's like Karl Zeiss, they pay for the branding, Jul 02 16:50:23 Jaffa: what about OCRing that biatch Jul 02 16:50:40 Nokia actually manufacture the optics, but they go through a CZ certification. Jul 02 16:50:47 maybe they stored the program in a qr code somewhere on the box too Jul 02 16:53:00 bbl Jul 02 16:54:21 ok, so I think I am finally close to having a working phone again. Plan is to copy off the contents of my rootfs now that I can do it Jul 02 16:54:25 and then reflash Jul 02 16:54:32 I am not sure which flash files I need to flash though Jul 02 16:55:06 :) Jul 02 16:55:20 What did you need that was on the roots to bother? Jul 02 16:55:45 not 100% sure but I know I need things from it Jul 02 16:55:48 ah Jul 02 16:56:02 jonwil: Jul 02 16:56:05 A howto would be awesome. Jul 02 16:56:05 ~flash Jul 02 16:56:06 well, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jul 02 16:56:26 ok, given that I have meego on there, what steps do I take to keep meego but re-flash maemo? Jul 02 16:56:35 I mean meego on emmc alongside maemo Jul 02 16:57:18 jonwil: follow the steps in there^^^ - then maybe add a uBoot enabled kernel to dualboot Jul 02 16:57:57 alterego: It's a bunch of QML Jul 02 16:58:04 or follow whatever else been your favourite method to boot into meego Jul 02 16:58:07 frals: Let me guess, it actually says "don't give your password away, n00b" Jul 02 16:58:22 frals: I feel it'd be cheating to just type the URLs in on my desktop though! Jul 02 16:59:08 ok, good I dont need to flash emmc, just combined Jul 02 16:59:10 or maybe only kernel Jul 02 16:59:15 not sure at this point Jul 02 16:59:18 will try kernel only first Jul 02 16:59:21 then combined Jul 02 16:59:26 and if that doesnt work, emmc Jul 02 16:59:57 jonwil: you'll need full combined I'd say Jul 02 17:00:22 well lets try and see Jul 02 17:00:29 aah, well, yes try kernel only first Jul 02 17:00:30 how do I know which country version I want? Jul 02 17:00:45 being aussie I am guessing global Jul 02 17:00:45 you always want international Jul 02 17:00:56 global that is, yeah Jul 02 17:01:05 so I want the one labeled "Latest Maemo 5 Global release for Nokia N900 "? Jul 02 17:01:14 yup Jul 02 17:01:24 ok, great Jul 02 17:01:57 nevertheless make sure it's the right version Jul 02 17:02:38 20.2010.36-2 Jul 02 17:02:46 yep, thats it Jul 02 17:03:03 MR0 is global iirc Jul 02 17:05:26 now I just need to emerge an sftp client to copy the current rootfs contents off Jul 02 17:05:32 which I am doing now Jul 02 17:06:06 if you have ssh you have scp ;) Jul 02 17:07:17 yeah I have scp but its a pain Jul 02 17:07:22 besides, I need a good FTP client on my gentoo box anyway Jul 02 17:07:26 filezilla ftw Jul 02 17:07:30 why is it a pain? Jul 02 17:07:44 its just annoying Jul 02 17:07:47 actually probably the best way is plain ssh Jul 02 17:07:50 due to how things are mounted Jul 02 17:07:52 have you tried lftp ? Jul 02 17:07:59 already emerging filezilla Jul 02 17:08:03 which should work just fine Jul 02 17:08:08 tar whatever | ssh remotehost "cat > file.tar" Jul 02 17:08:55 that's how I do the backup ;) Jul 02 17:09:44 can do the same thing with dd ;) Jul 02 17:12:47 just need to wait for wxwidgets to finish emerging Jul 02 17:13:03 hehe Jul 02 17:13:50 this is why you should run a binary distro :P Jul 02 17:13:56 naaahhh Jul 02 17:14:09 just stop using all those 200mb in ram graphical tools Jul 02 17:14:46 or just use a binary distro :P Jul 02 17:16:01 Jaffa: I actually don't know for sure, but from the quick glance I had it sent the username and password to some IP server which looked less than trustworthy ;) Jul 02 17:16:06 -server Jul 02 17:16:17 or s/IP/web/ Jul 02 17:16:27 I like gentoo :) Jul 02 17:17:08 hiemanshu, binary distros lock your choices unless you rebuild 90% of them Jul 02 17:18:31 I don't want to use udev, hal, *kit, and a bunch of other completly pointless tools that actually don't give me any benefit unless I bother configuring them... Jul 02 17:18:39 frals: I could change my Twitter password for two seconds ;-) Jul 02 17:21:08 in IRC publishing such stuff is a kickban :-P Jul 02 17:21:28 I'm amazed Nokia publishes same stuff printed on a box Jul 02 17:23:28 It's quite cool as a concept Jul 02 17:23:32 Since it's a "dev kit" Jul 02 17:26:59 Jaffa: could you list the box content? Jul 02 17:28:07 DocScrutinizer: The box? It contains an N950, a quick start guide, a USB cable Jul 02 17:28:28 It's about 3/4 of the size of a CD-ROM drive Jul 02 17:29:33 I'm puzzled it has no charger, gathered that from the quickstart quide as of FCC but thought it's just a fuzzy part of the description there Jul 02 17:30:21 * DocScrutinizer wonders idly about fastcharger detection scheme used for N9(50) Jul 02 17:32:00 Plugged it into a std USB cable and my car socket -> USB port adapter and it said "Not enough current to charge" Jul 02 17:33:25 meh, doesn't recognize the short- d+ and d- thing? Jul 02 17:33:53 because IIRC that's what all the chinese cheap chargers are doing, or was it a resistor? Jul 02 17:33:53 dm8tbr: I dunno if the car charger does that. Most things on the market seem to be *really* lax on that point; only Nokia get stroppy Jul 02 17:35:49 most cheap noname chargers simp,y do nothing, neither D+- short nor ID-pin resistor, nor the screwed apple-alike resistor voltage-deviders on D+ and D- Jul 02 17:37:25 just because there are so many different conflicting methods to signal fastcharging, it puzzles me a bit that Nokia doesn't give a solid hint on what's going to be used for N9 Jul 02 17:38:31 meh, I'll have to find out about the hardware - then I'll know for good Jul 02 17:39:23 I'd expect they'll be compatible with themselves? Jul 02 17:39:42 iow the nokia plug chargers with micro-usb connector Jul 02 17:41:31 yoh, quite probably Jul 02 17:46:09 (btw those do D+- short, just in case you wonder) Jul 02 17:46:25 ruskie: well, really doesn't matter much to me, I can work around them :P Jul 02 17:49:29 Yeah, Nokia seem to take the spec literally, word for word. Whereas everyone else is variable and/or aims for Apple compatibility Jul 02 17:50:00 is there anyway to specify in the "Desktop Entry" .desktop file that an application should run fullscreen (without the toolbar) ? Jul 02 17:51:19 Atarii: Only if the app supports such a command line option, AFAIK Jul 02 17:52:46 ok thanks Jul 02 18:26:53 finally have a phone that seems to work again, just reflashed rootfs Jul 02 18:26:57 and I think its booting Jul 02 18:27:04 then all I need to do is copy old settings from old rootfs Jul 02 18:27:08 and boom, phone works again I hope Jul 02 18:27:38 ok, now its sitting at the ..... screen and doing nothing Jul 02 18:28:17 I never thought I would be so happy to see the Nokia hands logo Jul 02 18:28:19 jonwil: just wait for a bit Jul 02 18:28:23 jonwil: hah Jul 02 18:28:55 good, my emmc is fine Jul 02 18:29:00 so I havent lost my wallapers Jul 02 18:29:11 DocScrutinizer: it's not a consideration - it's a fact ;) Jul 02 18:29:24 oh wait, spoke too soon Jul 02 18:29:38 achipa: :-D Jul 02 18:30:10 so yeah given that my phone works again and that its now 2:30am here, I will turn off R&D mode and go to bed Jul 02 18:30:22 then tommorow I restore the missing bits of my phone Jul 02 18:30:51 and then install whatever that thing is that can autobackup every possible user setting and autorestore without much work Jul 02 18:31:09 hmm, http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24583&postcount=324 seems interesting Jul 02 18:32:19 do the "script to speed up your N900" from the forums actually work? Jul 02 18:34:03 SpeedEvil: as for the screen switch - yes, doable, but you need to know what you are doing, and certainly not something I'd recommend 'on the go' (unlike the N9[0|5]0 which you can reload while hanging from a helicopter) Jul 02 18:36:21 so yeah I have decided not to mess with files in /etc in future Jul 02 18:36:42 although I now have a simple means to restore my phone to health without much work should I need to Jul 02 18:36:55 i.e. boot into meego, use usbnet, fix it (or back up then reflash) Jul 02 18:49:26 jonwil: have a look at robiethe1st's backupmenu Jul 02 18:49:32 yeah I plan to Jul 02 18:50:04 hm, anyone happens to have any solid information on LTE deployment worldwide? Jul 02 18:50:35 as long as linux starts up at all, you should be able to restore from backupmenu within seconds Jul 02 18:51:19 if the linux kernel doesn't start up at all, you'll have to reflash rootfs and install backupmenu Jul 02 18:52:37 frals: allegedly in Sweden or Finland or Norway they have some cities where LTE is available to the public Jul 02 18:53:26 DocScrutinizer: yes, Stockholm (.SE) and Oslo (.NO) has had it for ~years now... Saw someone claiming US is leading LTE deployment thou Jul 02 18:53:34 which kinda took me by surprise Jul 02 18:53:48 unclear Jul 02 18:54:15 but then on the other hand i never understood what is the official definition of LTE, since some consider WiMax == LTE Jul 02 18:54:16 they market some thing called 4G over there, but it's not clear to me what exactly this is Jul 02 18:54:41 and then some devices are labeled 4G but seem to be 3.5G only according to spec sheet Jul 02 18:55:31 frals: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Term_Evolution Jul 02 18:56:33 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3GPP_Long_Term_Evolution Jul 02 18:57:12 DocScrutinizer: thanks Jul 02 18:57:56 apparently "leading deployment" means most LTE basestations... which might be true, since I guess SE/NO/DK needs a lot fewer base stations per country than US, heh Jul 02 19:01:03 also the LTE = WiMax idea probably stems solely from the all-IP design of LTE that's of course also found in WiMax Jul 02 19:04:26 >>Part of the LTE standard is the System Architecture Evolution, a flat IP-based network architecture designed to replace the GPRS Core Network and ensure support for, and mobility between, some legacy or non-3GPP systems, for example GPRS and WiMAX respectively.<< Jul 02 19:25:25 hello Jul 02 19:25:48 what does the 'powersave' function in screen settings do? Jul 02 19:27:35 how long the screen waits till blanking Jul 02 19:27:39 oh - the ohter one? Jul 02 19:27:46 yes Jul 02 19:27:52 it is a tickbox Jul 02 19:27:55 It dims the backlight if there is a dimp picture Jul 02 19:27:59 dim picture Jul 02 19:28:08 with no bright white on it Jul 02 19:28:41 yep, seems it's directly related to that function in LCD module Jul 02 19:28:59 interesting Jul 02 19:29:02 dynamic backlight foobar Jul 02 19:30:31 It can massively reduce power consumption on e.g watching videos Jul 02 19:31:21 vi___: the idea is that it makes no sense to power up BL to full brightness just to dim down the whole screen to black via the LCD Jul 02 19:32:39 I guess I should have it switched on then! Jul 02 19:32:55 probably yes ;-) Jul 02 19:33:13 dunno why it's user selectable at all Jul 02 19:33:54 how can I toggle allowing TS to wake up n900? Jul 02 19:34:09 If I enable autolock TS does not wake it up Jul 02 19:34:26 if I disable AL, TS will wake it up Jul 02 19:34:32 which is good Jul 02 19:34:40 well, you *might* notice adverse effects e.g on a completely black screen with a small blinking white dot. With dynamic baclight you may notice distrubing effects in the black area die to black in LCD is never 100% Jul 02 19:35:18 However when I change the value of AL gconf it has no effect Jul 02 19:35:25 do you have any thoughts in this? Jul 02 19:36:22 probably an mce related issue rather than gconf Jul 02 19:37:36 alas mce isn't really flexible on configuration of handling many of the functional details, and mce is closed as we all know Jul 02 19:37:37 so I should try restarting mce...what is the safest way to do this? stop mce, killall mce, pkill mce, dsme stop, sleep, start Jul 02 19:38:53 may still cause nasty effects Jul 02 19:39:08 but, see above... ^^^ Jul 02 19:41:48 I'd really like to see mce RE'd, rather than the much-tackled bme Jul 02 19:42:47 and mce even has better chances to get cloned, now that a later version is FOSSed for meego Jul 02 19:49:00 does anyone know anything about gpe-calendar on the n900? Jul 02 19:54:15 specifically howTF I can get it to sync with anything. Jul 02 19:54:29 i.e. documentation that wasnt written in 2005 for the N770 Jul 02 19:55:29 wb javispedro Jul 02 19:56:20 vi___: prolly gpe-calendar is kinda orphaned Jul 02 19:57:45 godammit the is annoying Jul 02 19:58:06 there seems to be NO combination of calendar/sync/tasks that actually works Jul 02 19:58:31 * GeneralAntilles fails to see email from @nokia.com (minus Ovi spam) and goes to change a car battery. Jul 02 19:59:08 GeneralAntilles: its called filters :P Jul 02 19:59:36 HELO DocScrutinizer Jul 02 19:59:51 hey javispedro Jul 02 20:00:11 hi Jul 02 20:00:21 love how to spam refers to me as "Dear Mr. Maemo" Jul 02 20:00:26 s/how to/how/ Jul 02 20:00:26 javispedro meant: love how spam refers to me as "Dear Mr. Maemo" Jul 02 20:00:44 mehehe Jul 02 20:02:15 karma dropped "Blogs" and distributed the 4 points equally to Itt-thanks and discussion ;-P Jul 02 20:02:41 * DocScrutinizer wonders who's constantly messing around with this nonsense Jul 02 20:03:42 DocScrutinizer: AEGIS! :P Jul 02 20:03:46 and DAMNIT could this thing finally get renamed to tmo-thanks KTHNXBYE Jul 02 20:04:06 :-P Jul 02 20:04:54 * DocScrutinizer yawns Jul 02 20:10:27 n900 calendar==completely fucking useless Jul 02 20:11:09 vi___: you better get used to it. not going to find anything better. Jul 02 20:11:48 its not fair Jul 02 20:13:10 hiemanshu, i got the db stuff sorted out now .... thnx again for the help :) Jul 02 20:13:35 vi___, whats wrong with it for you? Jul 02 20:14:24 MoonTiger: np :D Jul 02 20:15:22 hey emacs runs on the n900 you can use its calendar and org-mode at least :P Jul 02 20:15:32 look Jul 02 20:15:33 at Jul 02 20:15:34 my Jul 02 20:15:35 name Jul 02 20:15:40 and say that to my face Jul 02 20:15:40 but really .. the n900 calendar is a joke Jul 02 20:15:57 yeah bad for you .. but emacs has a vi emulation too :P Jul 02 20:16:13 ape it's betters aye? Jul 02 20:16:17 resistance is futile :P Jul 02 20:16:20 vi___: sure, vi is not emacs, but enter is a punctuation mark either Jul 02 20:16:32 has vi a calendar? Jul 02 20:16:44 ...it has line edit mode Jul 02 20:16:50 ... Jul 02 20:16:51 no Jul 02 20:18:54 I need to get a package removed from extras-devel (I previously uploaded a package with an incorrect version number, so now I can't upload one with the correct version number). Jul 02 20:19:04 Is anyone in here able to do that? Jul 02 20:19:28 Or know who I need to speak to? Jul 02 20:22:53 X-Fade: Jul 02 20:24:15 * RST38h has built all his stuff for the goddamn Android Jul 02 20:24:16 * DocScrutinizer really wonders why there's no rollback Jul 02 20:24:25 nasty. Jul 02 20:24:41 /kick RST38h Jul 02 20:24:51 high treason Jul 02 20:25:02 Doc: Don't add insult to the injury... Jul 02 20:25:11 RST38h: when are you trying iOS? :) Jul 02 20:25:12 mehehe Jul 02 20:25:34 javispedro: the next day after I exit the closet! Jul 02 20:26:03 * DocScrutinizer hands RST38h a nice large bucket Jul 02 20:26:23 You will probably find iOS more sane than android... except for their "only Mac dev-tools" policy. Jul 02 20:26:51 javispedro: Kinda don't wanna try Jul 02 20:27:24 * DocScrutinizer idly hits F5 another time............ Jul 02 20:27:28 i dunno, obj-c is pretty insane Jul 02 20:27:35 ieatlint: compare to java. Jul 02 20:27:39 another C preprocessor Jul 02 20:27:44 julst like C++ :) Jul 02 20:27:45 exactly. Jul 02 20:27:54 meh Jul 02 20:27:55 javispedro: I have abstracted the java! Jul 02 20:27:56 javispedro: java looks less crazy Jul 02 20:28:07 obj-c can be implemented with a plain old pure text preprocessor Jul 02 20:28:12 java is insane Jul 02 20:28:13 javispedro: it is safely locked in EMULib/Android/Java Jul 02 20:28:45 i tried java once Jul 02 20:28:49 let us never speak of it again Jul 02 20:28:52 objC used for NeXTstep - can't be bad Jul 02 20:29:09 just different Jul 02 20:30:08 RST38h: are you sure it is your library wrapping java, or java wrapping your library? =) Jul 02 20:30:30 javispedro: prefer not to think about it Jul 02 20:30:32 you still probably need to change it every time you do any new application, if only to change package/class names Jul 02 20:30:38 I learnt Java in school, now I am braindead Jul 02 20:30:49 javispedro: No, I spent half a day today fighting this particular problem Jul 02 20:31:12 javispedro: And now the evil toad has been defeated Jul 02 20:31:15 I bet the answer includes use of a preprocessor =) Jul 02 20:31:49 thought of that but it would be cheating Jul 02 20:32:34 well there is http://sourceforge.net/p/necessitas/home/necessitas/ Jul 02 20:32:34 the message sending syntax in obj-c scared me the first time i saw it...i was looking through the code for a simple library, thinking...wtf Jul 02 20:32:38 which uses Qt Creator Jul 02 20:32:54 hiemanshu: and works really quite will Jul 02 20:32:54 hiemanshu: and I'm sure it works as good as Gtk+ on Harmattan. Jul 02 20:33:06 s/well Jul 02 20:33:21 necessitas isn't terrible Jul 02 20:33:32 just no qtmobility, and don't go near widgets Jul 02 20:33:43 javispedro: well its decent Jul 02 20:33:48 javispedro: better than java Jul 02 20:33:56 need to do GUIs in qgraphicsview or qml Jul 02 20:34:03 yup Jul 02 20:36:15 RST38h, any ideas about what IRC client we should use for Harmattan? Jul 02 20:36:45 emacs :P Jul 02 20:36:52 .. err how about xchat? Jul 02 20:36:55 GAN: There is a KDE client Jul 02 20:37:01 GAN: I willtry portingthat Jul 02 20:37:06 communi? Jul 02 20:37:08 XChat is probably a no go Jul 02 20:37:11 RST38h, and by "we should use" I mean. "you'll find time in your busy schedule for me to grovel at your feet in appreciation". Jul 02 20:37:14 why that? Jul 02 20:37:18 no gtk? Jul 02 20:37:25 http://linux.maruhn.com/sec/kirc.html Jul 02 20:37:31 Yeah, XChat is kinda bloated for the purpose anyway. Jul 02 20:37:37 Something likethis - KIRC Jul 02 20:37:39 irsii is generally what works best on small screens Jul 02 20:37:44 looks likeit can be compiled without KDE too Jul 02 20:37:53 ieatlint, well, I hereby nominate you to package it. Jul 02 20:38:03 * cehteh configured his xchat to be nice on small screen Jul 02 20:38:08 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63675 Jul 02 20:38:23 RST38h: there is quassel2go for maemo Jul 02 20:38:25 probably we could very easily get enough of gtk+ working to get xchat working decently Jul 02 20:38:29 Yeah, XChat on Maemo is quite nice. Jul 02 20:38:31 RST38h: and a meego version is being worked on Jul 02 20:38:34 GeneralAntilles: i usually run mine over ssh on a server in a screen session Jul 02 20:38:40 dont make a too simple irc client ... Jul 02 20:38:46 (make/use) Jul 02 20:38:48 hildon apps are another story.. Jul 02 20:38:50 ieatlint, ah, yeah, good point. Jul 02 20:38:54 look at modest :P Jul 02 20:38:56 * GeneralAntilles <- too much time in GUI client land. Jul 02 20:39:36 I like Quassel, works like irssi + screen, but with a nice GUI Jul 02 20:39:52 hiemanshu: would prefer a fully functional one Jul 02 20:40:08 RST38h: you can use it as a standalone client too Jul 02 20:41:12 ok, i got the rootfs.lzo unpacked for real this time Jul 02 20:41:17 successfully mounted and everything Jul 02 20:41:35 script here: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/maemo/unlzo Jul 02 20:42:22 Hurrian: ^ Jul 02 20:43:12 * RST38h still needs to update his stuff for Symbian^3 Jul 02 20:44:29 Oh shit, Android emulator is stuck again. Jul 02 20:44:41 Can they at least make it run for longer than 15 minutes? Jul 02 20:45:40 ali1234: so, just copy /usr to your n900 and see what happens ;) Jul 02 20:45:46 lolno Jul 02 20:45:59 i will let someone else do that Jul 02 20:46:37 * GeneralAntilles wonders about bothering to target Symbian^3 Jul 02 20:47:24 what will happen to QT when microsoft buys nokia? Jul 02 20:47:41 (in about 10 months or so :P) Jul 02 20:47:54 GAN:Well, got existing customers Jul 02 20:48:04 GAN: + it is not exactly dead yet! Jul 02 20:48:40 s40 maybe Jul 02 20:48:55 well Jul 02 20:49:17 funny you mention it, cause there's a lot people wondering whether to bother targeting harmattan. Jul 02 20:49:20 Hrm, I guess Qt Components doesn't work with the Qt SDK's design mode? Jul 02 20:49:46 and I really hope they decide to do so. Jul 02 20:49:59 clearly the n9 is going to be such a success it will force nokia to rethink its msft partership ;) Jul 02 20:50:14 javispedro: I will target Harmattan even if it is simply a form of protest :) Jul 02 20:50:58 javispedro: More specifically, I would like to add QML to my list of skills and attempt doing that project I toldyou about Jul 02 20:51:01 obviously we are all are :D Jul 02 20:51:17 * javispedro curses my stupid tendency to doubleword things. Jul 02 20:51:38 * javispedro blames backwards english grammar vs native language's. Jul 02 20:51:53 * RST38h opens a window, wonders what happens if the thunderstorm does strike tonight Jul 02 20:51:53 Silly Spanish Jul 02 20:52:33 - There are languages where two negatives mean a positive Jul 02 20:52:52 - There are also languages where two negatives mean a negative Jul 02 20:53:04 yo yo yo sup homies Jul 02 20:53:11 - But there is no language where two positive mean a negative! Jul 02 20:53:15 - YEA. RIGHT. Jul 02 20:53:22 MohammadAG: nm, dawg :D Jul 02 20:53:46 MohammadAG: goodevening homeslice. Jul 02 20:53:48 and there are also languages where a single negative means a positive. usually spoken by women. Jul 02 20:54:05 javispedro: that is not language, that is logic! Jul 02 20:54:07 hiemanshu, yo dawg, I heard you like keyboards, so I removed them, sincerely, Nokia Jul 02 20:54:26 i.e. stays valid in any language Jul 02 20:54:36 MohammadAG: I heard you like to hack, so I added aegis, love, Nokia Jul 02 20:54:58 actually, let's make that follow the meme Jul 02 20:55:27 yo dawg, I heard you like keyboards, so I put a keyboard in a keyboard and removed both, so you curse elop while you curse elop while hacking aegis! Jul 02 20:55:54 I think you have got a looping virus, folks Jul 02 20:56:05 RST38h: good point. Jul 02 20:56:44 yo dawg, I heard you liked keyboards so we put one on a phone you cannot buy. So you cant type on a phone you dont own. Jul 02 20:58:27 RST38h, yo dawg I heard you like loops, so we put a loop in your loop so you can wtf while you wtf Jul 02 20:59:32 /s/so you can wtf while you wtf/so you can recursivley wtf Jul 02 20:59:37 /s/so you can wtf while you wtf/so you can recursivley wtf/ Jul 02 20:59:40 bah Jul 02 21:00:00 * RST38h knows a coding-related joke about loops. It is too tasteless to tell outside a junior programming class though. Jul 02 21:00:15 now you have aroused my attention Jul 02 21:00:25 RIGHT. Jul 02 21:05:08 * vi___ waits for RST38h to deliver Jul 02 21:06:24 MohammadAG: yo dawg, I heard you like to study, so we failed you AGAIN! :D Jul 02 21:07:34 * Jaffa just can't get the difference between recursion and iteration - I keep going over and over it, but I just can't get into it. Jul 02 21:08:06 I'll get my coat. Jul 02 21:08:29 * dm8tbr groans Jul 02 21:09:13 Jaffa: ... Jul 02 21:10:10 Jaffa: hand in your geek card right now. As well as your N950. Jul 02 21:12:53 ... the geek club gentlemen tell me you can keep the card but not the N950, though. Jul 02 21:16:39 Jaffa: Recursion is where your stack grows Jul 02 21:16:50 Jaffa: I.e. you do not just loop, you call yourself Jul 02 21:17:20 Tail recursion (i.e. where you call yourself at the end of your function) can be effectively converted to iterations Jul 02 21:17:32 i think it was kind of a joke Jul 02 21:17:52 Maybe, yea, but I have not got it =E Jul 02 21:18:21 ooh Jul 02 21:18:29 so multitouch on te n9{50,} is handled by xinput2... Jul 02 21:18:49 * javispedro starts to feel slight pain even before checking out xinput2 headers Jul 02 21:27:52 * noobmonk3y blinks Jul 02 21:28:49 javispedro: :-))) Jul 02 21:29:13 MohammadAG / frals what have you lot done with lcuk? or has he gone soft! now he has a baby he takes time out from Ircing?! :P Jul 02 21:30:10 geeks with kids is always a scary propsect Jul 02 21:33:58 yo Jul 02 21:34:53 javispedro: lemme guess... driver for that is completely closed? Jul 02 21:35:26 DocScrutinizer: didn't check it, it's just that the entire multitouching thing is pretty much a jungle atm Jul 02 21:35:46 lol, expected no less than that Jul 02 21:36:05 MT is a concept way too young in IT Jul 02 21:36:43 probably all APIs and whatnot will constatntly change on a weekly pace for the next say 5 years Jul 02 21:37:39 http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2010/12/15/touching-the-x11-2/ Jul 02 21:38:42 before xinput2, they were asking the kernel for mt directly, bypassing x11 =) Jul 02 21:39:56 ooh new experimental xinput2.1, as of Dec 2010. Say, will it suffice when I check this site once a day for changes? Jul 02 21:40:59 you may feel pain, I start to feel nausea Jul 02 21:41:34 and I'm not even pondering to look at the headers Jul 02 21:41:36 the key moment is when you start feeling insanity crawling up Jul 02 21:41:50 Symbian has been known to cause that Jul 02 21:42:04 hehehe Jul 02 21:42:44 I love to watch peolpe on experiencing that moment Jul 02 21:42:53 people* Jul 02 21:43:35 maybe sybian designers felt similar Jul 02 21:44:27 Symbian designers are long beyond insanity now Jul 02 21:44:30 DocScrutinizer: I wonder if sybian is better than symbian :D Jul 02 21:44:38 A moment (locating an article) Jul 02 21:45:04 hiemanshu: I bet the designers are quite happy people Jul 02 21:45:21 DocScrutinizer: or maybe high Jul 02 21:45:21 hiemanshu, gotta hook it up to an AppleScript so it discos the house lights and turns on all of the stereos when I get an @nokia.com email containing "N950". Jul 02 21:45:32 do we know the max number of simultaneous touches on the n9 display? Jul 02 21:45:51 GeneralAntilles: haha, nice :D Jul 02 21:46:41 GeneralAntilles: I have a google email checker/notifier, maybe I can patch it to play 'I feel good' when it get an email containg N950 Jul 02 21:46:45 Doc,javispedro: Here, enjoy: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/03/symbian_utopia_lost/print.html Jul 02 21:47:21 * hiemanshu is going insane trying to design a softphone Jul 02 21:47:30 (avoid eating immediately before or in the process of reading this) Jul 02 21:48:21 GeneralAntilles: I wonder if (and when) Quim will send an informative mail ""(if you are not accidentally in this list) We just have sent the last bunch of AIDs to developer.nokia launchpad dudes. check following URL for something to happen"" Jul 02 21:48:51 javispedro, I heard at least 6. Jul 02 21:48:57 dammit Jul 02 21:49:00 pre has 5 Jul 02 21:49:08 ali1234 : image mounted, beginning experiments. Jul 02 21:49:09 well. Jul 02 21:49:24 * javispedro increases MAX_TOUCHES #define Jul 02 21:49:47 ubi0:var /var ubifs noauto,no_chk_data_crc,bulk_read Jul 02 21:49:49 what the Jul 02 21:50:21 javispedro: 10 is a rather sane max Jul 02 21:50:25 ;-P Jul 02 21:50:43 DocScrutinizer: but I can use my foot too? Jul 02 21:50:44 DocScrutinizer: you mutant racist Jul 02 21:50:53 LOL Jul 02 21:51:18 javispedro: I can probably got 10 fingers and 6 toes on the 3.9" screen Jul 02 21:51:21 get* Jul 02 21:51:43 by then the capacitive screen wil probably be able to electrocute you Jul 02 21:52:16 its ok, I'll wear rubber slippers :P Jul 02 21:52:28 I'd say this is handled by generic -ETOMUCHTOUCHPONTS Jul 02 21:52:57 -EMAXTP even Jul 02 21:53:49 any UX designer telling me we need >10 will immediately get shot Jul 02 21:54:36 any ux designer telling me he needs to use more than 4 fingers needs to be shot, and have one hand chopped off Jul 02 21:55:14 s/and/or/ Jul 02 21:55:16 hiemanshu meant: any ux designer telling me he needs to use more than 4 fingers needs to be shot, or have one hand chopped off Jul 02 21:56:03 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv3X5y-ajtc 0:10 Jul 02 21:57:29 hiemanshu, OK, script enabled. Jul 02 21:57:36 * GeneralAntilles wishes he had an alarm siren. Jul 02 21:58:11 actually http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnQHoCDxiRw&NR=1 1:53 Jul 02 21:58:18 GeneralAntilles: in five years, when you have completely forgotten what Nokia was, suddenly your stereo will turn on indicating your Launchpad application has been approved, causing you a heart attack. Jul 02 21:58:45 Hehe Jul 02 21:58:51 DocScrutinizer: games are different :D Jul 02 22:00:50 javispedro: well, if nokia is dead in 5 years, I can see apple at the top, and android being the next symbian Jul 02 22:00:51 hiemanshu: see, this separates the hotspurs from the considerate API designers Jul 02 22:01:07 a max of 10 seems ok Jul 02 22:01:11 DocScrutinizer: agreed Jul 02 22:01:27 DocScrutinizer: for something unlike that, for any normal workflow 4 is sane Jul 02 22:01:39 agreed Jul 02 22:02:11 is nokia changed the swipe to 2 finger instead of 1, it would avoid a lot of swiping mistakes Jul 02 22:02:24 HAH Jul 02 22:02:38 good point Jul 02 22:03:14 esp if you have used an iPhone before, you will know how important swiping from the edge of the screen can be a times Jul 02 22:03:16 where's my gconf tweaker to set all those parameters?!? Jul 02 22:04:34 it's now CSS files. Jul 02 22:04:41 but I disagree. Jul 02 22:04:46 multitouch suckss. Jul 02 22:04:59 javispedro: sure, but when you have it, use it sanely Jul 02 22:05:08 everytime you require more than one finger, you've failed. Jul 02 22:05:30 everytime you require a fingure you have failed Jul 02 22:05:45 gimme my stylus! Jul 02 22:06:07 what stylus? use your brain waves Jul 02 22:06:21 gconftool -s t=int /maemo/swipe/swipegesturefingers 2 Jul 02 22:07:44 actually scrolling with 2 fingers is the best part of my laptop's touchpad Jul 02 22:08:27 damn, why mt, why c-ts at all, when you're not *exploiting* it? Jul 02 22:08:43 exactly Jul 02 22:09:07 using mt just for pinching is like using a jet plane to go to work 5 mins away from home Jul 02 22:09:23 Multitouch is great for trackpads Jul 02 22:09:25 indeed Jul 02 22:09:25 DocScrutinizer: because I still like to use this stuff singlehandedly from time to time. Jul 02 22:09:27 Gimmicky for mobile devices. Jul 02 22:10:07 * javispedro prefers synaptic's circular scrolling instead of twofinger Jul 02 22:10:22 so what? javispedro do you need two hands to do a 2 finger swipe instead of a one-finger swipe? Jul 02 22:10:51 hm.. yes? Jul 02 22:11:06 o.O Jul 02 22:11:22 ...awright. the SD card has been loaded with MeeGo software. Jul 02 22:11:31 * javispedro ponders how to grab the thing stably so that I have more than thumb finger free. Jul 02 22:11:32 uh... Harmattan software Jul 02 22:11:43 I start to get it why you had problems with MAX_TOUCHES #define Jul 02 22:11:44 javispedro: use your foots Jul 02 22:11:57 feet* Jul 02 22:12:16 DocScrutinizer: sadly I only have one thumb finger per hand, dunno about you.. Jul 02 22:12:36 2, like any decent parrot Jul 02 22:13:03 now it would really suck, if it started writing to mtd1 Jul 02 22:14:33 hopefully the meego kernel would disallow any freaky shit Jul 02 22:14:45 javispedro: see, that's why we urgently need a API to *configure* such things like SWIPENUMFINGERS, T_DBLCLICK, SWIPEFRAMESIZE_PIX... Jul 02 22:15:19 yes, I was also being racist towards mutants here I think... Jul 02 22:15:54 ;P Jul 02 22:16:25 It's simply arrogant for a UX designer to think he got the only valid doubleclick-duration etc Jul 02 22:17:20 all those parameters need a proper API, nah even a proper settings tool OOTB Jul 02 22:21:15 things like that auto-symbol/auto-bluekey, like what to do on doubleclick of $random(-button), like how many fingers to use for swipe gesture, how much damping / inertia kinetic scrolling got... all that is way more to the top of my list of important things user must have a way to control than such nonsense like wallpapers Jul 02 22:22:34 maybe it's just me and I'm going weird... Jul 02 22:22:43 I dont think I even change wallpapers on my phones/computers Jul 02 22:22:58 I never did Jul 02 22:23:37 well my N900 has the default theme/wallpaper, so does my computer, my gaming PC and about every other device I own Jul 02 22:23:41 well, I kicked out whatever wallpaper came with my desktop distro, and replaced it by a simple color gradient Jul 02 22:24:35 http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Blogs/resources/300003/datepicker.png is still useless. Jul 02 22:24:41 day of the week! please! Jul 02 22:24:53 the wallpaper on my gaming PC is a photo I clicked because the default W7 one is stupid and sasd Jul 02 22:24:54 sad* Jul 02 22:24:57 OMFG I don't dare to even peek Jul 02 22:25:29 javispedro: used the Qt default names :/ Jul 02 22:25:40 NOOOOOOOOOOOO ohnoooooes! Jul 02 22:25:46 again slotmachine Jul 02 22:26:21 well thats how the iPhone does it Jul 02 22:26:27 * hiemanshu isn't suggesting anything though Jul 02 22:26:50 PFFFFFFFFF! More than good a reason to do it diferently, possibly better Jul 02 22:29:13 slot machine method isn't bad Jul 02 22:29:20 zenity --calendar FTW! Jul 02 22:29:21 but hildon had a retarded bounce effect Jul 02 22:29:39 slot machine is nonsense Jul 02 22:29:41 so when you lift your finger it doesn't stay where it is Jul 02 22:30:27 slotmachine is as uninspired as it possibly can get Jul 02 22:30:54 and, as javispedro noticed, still missing day-of-week Jul 02 22:31:32 I'm ~20 times faster with zenity --calendar than witj friggin slotmachine Jul 02 22:31:53 * noobmonk3y blinks Jul 02 22:32:09 They're optimising the first usecase over the normal. Jul 02 22:32:21 The slotmachine is cool the first few times Jul 02 22:32:49 please learn: http://members.shaw.ca/guis/palmos41/calendar5.gif Jul 02 22:32:59 SpeedEvil: "we meet today in two weeks" Jul 02 22:33:21 "Friday in 3 weeks" Jul 02 22:33:32 "first monday of November" Jul 02 22:33:34 LOL Jul 02 22:34:05 easter Jul 02 22:34:19 I want to see the UX gasheads entering "second monday of november" with their slotmachine Jul 02 22:35:04 week 38 Jul 02 22:35:04 DocScrutinizer: even "next tuesday" is deadly hard. Jul 02 22:35:14 no need to get to brutal extremes Jul 02 22:35:43 when adding appointments, I'm usually the only one that looks at the ceiling, lost, making the mental calculation. Jul 02 22:36:02 every otherone in the meeting having lost that ability because their pim platform does it for them. Jul 02 22:36:02 this is so painfully ridiculously useless a widget, I'm out of words for it Jul 02 22:37:27 ah, crap, n950 image messed up my device Jul 02 22:37:33 javispedro: in maemo5 calendar you at least can click on a day in week- or month-view, to add a new appointment there Jul 02 22:37:59 i'm pretty sure these are watchdog reboots Jul 02 22:38:01 mine boots to agendaview with prominent "add event" button so I always forget. Jul 02 22:38:51 * hiemanshu is out for the night Jul 02 22:39:07 * DocScrutinizer too Jul 02 22:39:12 brb, need a reflash Jul 02 22:39:51 hiemanshu: DocScrutinizer cya then. Jul 02 22:40:17 javispedro: should we start a petition to Nokia "please get a decent usable date selector widget - nuke slotmachine" ? Jul 02 22:40:41 (for harmattan/N9) Jul 02 22:40:50 too late probably, though we could file the bug. Jul 02 22:41:03 indeed, highest priority Jul 02 22:41:19 * DocScrutinizer idly wonders where to file bugs against harmattan Jul 02 22:43:12 http://developer.nokia.com/bugs Jul 02 22:43:13 helo what is news on n950? Jul 02 22:43:35 can anyone log into Maps with their N950? Jul 02 22:43:44 DocScrutinizer: http://www.developer.nokia.com/bugs/enter_bug.cgi Jul 02 22:43:45 oh it's the great emulator porter javispedro ! thank you Jul 02 22:44:08 hi. Jul 02 22:44:19 all hail javispedro! all hail javispedro! Jul 02 22:44:27 has someone make faster pulseaudio? Jul 02 22:45:42 nope Jul 02 22:46:44 though n950 might not need to do xprot Jul 02 22:46:52 and friends. Jul 02 22:47:00 i guess its not maps, its that nokia accounts isnt working on n950 Jul 02 22:49:43 meh, I'll probably not contribute to developers.nokia.com - this site refuses to log me in when I use Konqueror, despite cookies enables, js enabled, modules enabled, and even browser-id set to FF-3x Jul 02 22:50:32 I'm just back to absolutely same login page Jul 02 22:51:11 aegis did a fullbody scan on your browser Jul 02 22:51:12 sorry Nokia :-S Jul 02 22:51:41 DocScrutinizer: use lynx :D Jul 02 22:51:56 * DocScrutinizer beats hiemanshu with aegis Jul 02 22:52:22 DocScrutinizer: please dont beat me with a scumbag Jul 02 22:54:19 ooh, forgot to mention: I of course cleaned out all old cookies of that site, no that there've been many Jul 02 22:55:07 (for meego.com I actually had to clean out a "session-end" cookie, and it finally allowed me to log in) Jul 02 22:58:21 gah, its 4.30 am :/ Jul 02 22:58:24 * hiemanshu is out for real Jul 02 22:58:44 HAM, how i hate thee Jul 02 22:59:48 it is so buggy and slow Jul 02 23:08:21 went via plain login URL instead of this redirection thing you get when you hit the loginscreen via e.g. http://www.developer.nokia.com/bugs/enter_bug.cgi. Deleted again *all* cookies related to *nokia*, accepted all cookies, ignored the recursive-link "404" screen of the browser by hitting F5, and TADAA voila: I'm logged in to developer.nokia Jul 02 23:08:57 @DocScrutinizer : the new design's buggy? Jul 02 23:09:17 well, seems that Xinput2 looks mostly sane. Jul 02 23:09:27 the old one wasn't? :-P Jul 02 23:10:12 anyone got the note on N950 firmware : DO NOT USE Jul 02 23:10:27 nokia as expected did another Nokia Jul 02 23:10:33 developer.nokia *never* previously worked for me logging in, on Konqueror Jul 02 23:10:43 (thanks qwerty12 for that expression ;) Jul 02 23:10:53 needed to reflash D: Jul 02 23:10:55 Hurrian: the ddp devices have another firmware version seemignly Jul 02 23:12:13 err wut? you mustn't flash the N950 with the only available N950 firmware image, or what? Jul 02 23:12:55 no, i mean running the n950 image on the N900 Jul 02 23:13:03 instant fs clobbering Jul 02 23:13:07 aaah Jul 02 23:13:13 sure Jul 02 23:13:45 why you'd want to do that, I mean, mtdswap probably instantly killed your rootfs. Jul 02 23:14:17 it's not like mtd partitions are nicely mapped out in a first sector, they're hardcoded Jul 02 23:14:18 run N950 sw image -> hang on boot -> battery pull -> bootup M5 -> kernel panic -> startup -> Internal Errors Everywhere Jul 02 23:14:35 var was the only one on a ubi partition Jul 02 23:14:43 everything else was on ext4 and /mydocs Jul 02 23:14:57 fun fact, /home is on a separate partition Jul 02 23:15:16 I'm not talking only about ubi. Jul 02 23:15:19 there's mtdswap. Jul 02 23:15:27 hmm, didn't know about that Jul 02 23:15:44 brb, bfast Jul 02 23:18:02 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh Jul 02 23:18:08 QT_RX71_MULTITOUCH Jul 02 23:18:12 I sure hope it is dead by now. Jul 02 23:18:32 javispedro: I'm about to enter a ticket. You say http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Blogs/resources/300003/datepicker.png is the datepicker widget used in harmattan, right? Jul 02 23:18:41 DocScrutinizer: not sure, that seems to be the qml one Jul 02 23:19:01 *sigh* Jul 02 23:19:06 ok, nevermind Jul 02 23:19:12 another time Jul 02 23:19:19 save the prose for next time though :) Jul 02 23:19:43 I'm sure that as soon as I try to enter an event in stock calendar I am going to need it. Jul 02 23:21:26 DocScrutinizer: can you sign in to nokia account? Jul 02 23:21:32 Hurrian: what the hell did you do?? Jul 02 23:21:58 ali1234: Tried to install n950 firmware on the n900 with a hammer. Jul 02 23:22:20 i know but i'm guessing he didn't just flash the fiasco Jul 02 23:22:34 ali1234: cssu! Jul 02 23:22:58 what does cssu have to do with it? Jul 02 23:26:08 i would probably try to launch just the ux from a chroot if i was going to try it Jul 02 23:26:37 you'll have to kill hildon and disabl the watchdog though Jul 02 23:30:08 why Jul 02 23:30:16 I mean, most of meegotouch runs without such ado Jul 02 23:30:27 because running two window managers isn't going to work very well? Jul 02 23:31:05 ah, you mean the sw watchdog Jul 02 23:31:21 i mean whatever it is that reboots the phone if hildon exits Jul 02 23:32:10 either way, if you plan to use the stock kernel, biggest issue is softfp sgx libraries Jul 02 23:32:36 why is that an issue? can't link to them? Jul 02 23:32:51 not easily... Jul 02 23:34:10 sgx libs have plenty of FP parameter passing -- not going to work unless you make a wrapper. Jul 02 23:34:52 and I'm not sure wheter the CE hardfp libraries will work with the stock n900 kernel, but most probably don't. Jul 02 23:35:50 if you want to get as of now the most similar ui to n9, just apt-get meegotouch (yes, it's there), and scp the theme files from harmattan. won't get swipe, but then swipe in n900 would be pain imho. Jul 02 23:36:31 * ieatlint wonders how long before swype takes an issue with swipe Jul 02 23:36:32 isn't it more about getting the apps? Jul 02 23:37:44 but I do not think you're getting the propietary apps working with stock kernel. Jul 02 23:38:40 maybe if you do the above but on top of meegoCE instead of maemo ;) Jul 02 23:38:51 yeah i was just thinking that Jul 02 23:39:05 can you make reverse debs like you can with rpms? Jul 02 23:39:40 no idea what that is. Jul 02 23:40:02 but does not sound like the hard part. Jul 02 23:40:03 well with rpm you can query the list of files installed by each rpm, and then reconstruct the original rpm from the filesystem Jul 02 23:40:11 ah. Jul 02 23:40:15 ...so either we fix the CE kernel or hack up the 2.6.32 kernel? Jul 02 23:40:18 thus turning an installed system back into a repository Jul 02 23:40:33 then you can install those rpms somewhere else :) Jul 02 23:40:37 Hurrian: fix what? Jul 02 23:41:03 to make it boot Harmattan Jul 02 23:41:11 de-adaptation Jul 02 23:41:13 but what's broken. Jul 02 23:41:26 actually, we have to break it nokia's way ;) Jul 02 23:42:18 forget about just flashing image, which is I think what you want to do. Jul 02 23:42:39 chroot as ali1234 suggested, and start component by component. do not ever run one single initscript from the image. Jul 02 23:42:48 try booting the n950 kernel on n900, see what happens :) Jul 02 23:43:04 different audio setup at least ;) Jul 02 23:43:21 where did it branch from mainline? Jul 02 23:43:38 just rebuild it with rx51 support :) Jul 02 23:43:59 that _might_ work. Jul 02 23:44:13 there is plenty of stuff to try Jul 02 23:44:20 most of it probably won't work Jul 02 23:44:22 cause I bet they did harmattan testing on n900, so it's probably not much rotten. Jul 02 23:44:27 and none of it will work without lots of hacking Jul 02 23:44:41 but either way. Jul 02 23:45:00 It would be fascinating if you could get alien firmware working. Jul 02 23:45:02 You might not need anything other than the meegoCE kernel... Jul 02 23:45:17 Even if only from the dev POV Jul 02 23:45:39 SpeedEvil: what do you mean? -- people get e.g. gentoo running on it daily. Jul 02 23:45:53 javispedro: I mean n950 fw on n900 Jul 02 23:46:08 that's more concrete than alien ;P Jul 02 23:46:22 I should read backscroll, I thoguht that was clear. Jul 02 23:47:07 javispedro, i did it the meego-CE way Jul 02 23:47:28 SpeedEvil: don't mind. It's just that I though you used "alien" to specifically mean more alien than another maemo release ;) Jul 02 23:47:39 copy to sd card, flasher -l Jul 02 23:47:47 not flashing using flasher! Jul 02 23:47:54 i thought you were talking about the thing that turns rpms into debs... Jul 02 23:48:23 hah. Jul 02 23:48:33 Hurrian: so you dd the ext4 image to a sd partition and then boot a meego kernel with root=sd card partition Jul 02 23:49:07 therefore ran all harmattan init scripts, including the one that does mtdswap on some mtd partition. Jul 02 23:49:20 yeah i wouldn't really expect that to work too well Jul 02 23:49:54 maybe if you edit the initscripts to just give you a root shell Jul 02 23:50:02 and then try to load stuff up 1 at a time Jul 02 23:51:33 ali1234: yup Jul 02 23:51:52 javispedro, what is mtdswap? Jul 02 23:52:08 Hurrian: exactly what it says on the tin: swap on mtd. Jul 02 23:52:17 ah Jul 02 23:52:36 wow, that seems like a really bad idea Jul 02 23:52:53 swap... on mtd Jul 02 23:53:38 I wonder if it's the same on N9 Jul 02 23:53:39 you prefer on eMMC card with completely propietary and probably weak wear management firmware? Jul 02 23:53:52 N950 limited life, N9 limited life? Jul 02 23:54:10 doa :) Jul 02 23:54:11 hey, here's an idea, why don't we make a mobile OS that doesn't need 1GB ram to run Jul 02 23:54:19 we could call it... symbian Jul 02 23:54:29 ali1234: a mobile os shouldn't need that to run :P Jul 02 23:54:42 F'ing ubuntu doesn't need that to run .. Jul 02 23:54:43 ali1234: maybe it's not on n9, cause of 1GiB RAM. Also, ramzswap is around. Jul 02 23:54:47 careless apps do and bling does Jul 02 23:54:50 lol ubuntu... Jul 02 23:54:57 N950 has 1G ram Jul 02 23:54:58 my ubuntu runs really fast now that i have 16gb Jul 02 23:55:01 has the n9 ramzswap? Jul 02 23:55:02 4gb was NOT enough Jul 02 23:55:22 ali1234: I run it on machines with less than qG fine Jul 02 23:55:25 1G .. Jul 02 23:55:46 the speed difference is incredible now Jul 02 23:56:02 firefox almost never freezes. almost Jul 02 23:56:02 hah Jul 02 23:56:10 Hah Jul 02 23:56:19 firefox, the new emacs :) Jul 02 23:56:21 have to say that's probably rotary media large cache in effect. Jul 02 23:56:28 Shame I like 'em both :D Jul 02 23:56:42 probably, coupled with firefox's retarded "i want to manage my own cache" policy Jul 02 23:57:10 ali1234: on a 16GiB it may make sense to install preload and all the adaptative crap, if you can stand the hard disk activity. Jul 02 23:57:24 the nice thing about 32 bit firefox builds is that it never needs more than 4GB ram :P Jul 02 23:57:28 which combined with ubuntu's relatively high swappiness value leads to disk cache getting cached in disk cache, and ram cache getting swapped to disk Jul 02 23:57:46 cehteh: but it crashes!! Jul 02 23:57:47 * cehteh once ran the 32bit ff on his 64 bit laptop :P Jul 02 23:57:57 in a 'keepalive' loop Jul 02 23:57:59 cehteh: I'm sure you can implement the same "bug" on amd64 using ulimit or similar Jul 02 23:58:06 nevertheless, did it: http://www.developer.nokia.com/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=219 Jul 02 23:58:07 04Bug 219: submenus do not open, timing issue Jul 02 23:58:18 povbot: bad bot! Jul 02 23:58:19 javispedro: Error: "bad" is not a valid command. Jul 02 23:58:25 hmm, phone calls work, and i can see the N900's MAC address on my router, and it doesn't ask for lock code Jul 02 23:58:43 mtd1 seems to be OK Jul 02 23:59:29 Hurrian: what saved you is that nokia keeps using mtd1 and mtd2 for the same in n950/n9 Jul 02 23:59:30 hmm, so i'm guessing it actually tried to swap on mtd5 Jul 02 23:59:39 ...but the rest.. Jul 02 23:59:40 or something else Jul 02 23:59:58 #!/bin/sh Jul 02 23:59:59 $@ || exec $0 $@ Jul 03 00:00:07 It's all the same device Jul 03 00:00:12 javispedro : :) Jul 03 00:00:20 alterego: he tried to run the harmattan image on n900. Jul 03 00:00:26 alterego: initscripts et all. Jul 03 00:00:34 javispedro: eeek! Jul 03 00:00:44 baby steps please? Jul 03 00:00:56 well you never know, sometimes these things just work Jul 03 00:00:59 Also, good luck getting celmo to work ... #justsaying Jul 03 00:01:05 wat Jul 03 00:01:07 alterego ++ Jul 03 00:01:09 did it actually work...? Jul 03 00:01:15 no :) Jul 03 00:01:16 the dmesg showed BB5 errors Jul 03 00:01:16 alterego: no, it didn't work -- I bet mtdswap scripts corrupted rootfs partition Jul 03 00:01:22 was worth a try though Jul 03 00:01:23 oh, ok then Jul 03 00:01:35 alterego: It'd be quite interesting even without cellmo Jul 03 00:01:42 Hurrian: that is aegis Jul 03 00:01:46 And I have a n900 with a broken modem anyway :) Jul 03 00:01:56 i'm guessing it's because nokia's still not using ofono for Harmattan? Jul 03 00:02:04 or whatever stack CE people use Jul 03 00:02:08 but aegis should work without bb5 (as in qemu) -- it will just boot in open mode. Jul 03 00:02:12 SpeedEvil: indeed, I'm not against the idea, but I happen to know that some people that maybe a bit more "in the know" know it's not an easy task Jul 03 00:02:28 alterego: Oh - I'm not disagreeing. Jul 03 00:02:35 alterego: I woul dbe astonished if it's simple. Jul 03 00:02:47 cellmo was bought up Jul 03 00:02:54 fun fact: N9 now has initrd. Jul 03 00:02:54 * javispedro thinks it is probably simple to run swipe mcompositor in meegoCE, just by copying the binary... and most of the apps, in a chroot. Jul 03 00:03:03 Hurrian: both maemo and harmattan use telepathy ring Jul 03 00:03:20 cehteh: ??? Jul 03 00:03:23 It's the firmware that'll kill cell mo functionality Jul 03 00:03:30 i guess the 2M kernel size limitation was ridiculous even for Nokia Jul 03 00:03:31 DocScrutinizer: what? Jul 03 00:03:38 javispedro: ++ Jul 03 00:03:45 cehteh:$@ || exec $0 $@ ??? Jul 03 00:03:52 keepalive script Jul 03 00:04:01 (simplest version) Jul 03 00:04:03 *cough* Jul 03 00:04:09 if programm dies then restart :) Jul 03 00:04:35 i recommend to add a sleep 1 before restarting, in case it constantly dies Jul 03 00:04:44 indeed Jul 03 00:04:54 also i have a more elaborate version of this script meanwhile taking a few options Jul 03 00:05:11 sudo keepalive false will freeze your box Jul 03 00:05:39 that's a nice way to do it Jul 03 00:05:49 alterego: you should know that qgil posted on a TMO thread about extracting harmattan stuff to run on N900, telling them to go ask #meego-arm or f.m.c. I believe this also implicitly says Nokia is not going to pursue copyright aspects. Jul 03 00:06:07 alterego , i dont feel like force flashing N950 CMT image onto N900 ;) Jul 03 00:06:08 giving "green" light in a sense for such a project. Jul 03 00:06:17 qgil being the copyright holder and whatnot. Jul 03 00:06:24 It's a trap! Jul 03 00:06:31 yeah i did wonder about that Jul 03 00:06:38 But, seriously, when have they ever pursued copyright issues? Jul 03 00:06:42 that would result in an instant trip to the fbus Jul 03 00:07:09 They were encouraging people to mirror firmware releases in '08. Jul 03 00:07:15 hehe. Jul 03 00:07:23 http://www.pipapo.org/snippets/keepalive Jul 03 00:08:03 Hurrian: it's the incompatibilities that'll stop it Jul 03 00:08:11 Hurrian: you can not force flash N950 cmt fw to N900 Jul 03 00:08:20 BB5 security and all Jul 03 00:08:26 right? Jul 03 00:08:30 right Jul 03 00:08:48 yeah, had a short stint with unlocking phones a few years ago Jul 03 00:09:00 how about if you extract the filesystems and build a new fiasco image from them. that should work right? Jul 03 00:09:09 i mean it will flash Jul 03 00:09:12 it won't "work" Jul 03 00:09:21 but flasher would accept it Jul 03 00:09:26 Is the modem actually a different modem? Jul 03 00:09:28 yeah, you can use fiasco-gen to make a UBIFS image for n900 device Jul 03 00:09:32 it won't work, but the ebay bidders you're going to sell such a FIASCO image to won't know that!! Jul 03 00:09:34 I'd do pieces at a time Jul 03 00:09:38 SpeedEvil: good question Jul 03 00:09:39 shouldn't even need to be ubifs Jul 03 00:09:48 Hmm. Jul 03 00:09:54 get it to boot the rootfs first (minimal scripts) .35 kernel Jul 03 00:10:05 SpeedEvil: given the fact it's pentaband UMTS id's say it's sufficiently different Jul 03 00:10:10 * SpeedEvil ponders selling a painted n900 with upgraded firmware on ebay. Jul 03 00:10:15 DocScrutinizer: true. Jul 03 00:10:27 ali1234: i feel queasy about running ext4 on a onenand Jul 03 00:10:31 But the whole cellular stack would need to be replaced with meego ofono .. Jul 03 00:10:37 oh, are nokia going to take down the firmware servers? Jul 03 00:10:39 it won't fit anyway Jul 03 00:10:41 that would suxxor Jul 03 00:11:02 The tele ring stuff in harmattan is incompatible with N900 cell mo. From what I've gathered. Jul 03 00:11:18 and btw, Harmattan rootfs compressed with zlib (btrfs) is about 700 MB Jul 03 00:11:28 ~3x the size of onenand Jul 03 00:11:42 it's even bigger when compressed with ubifs' lzo Jul 03 00:11:43 harmattan uses btrfs? Jul 03 00:11:51 no, it uses ext4 Jul 03 00:11:52 Hurrian: all runs off eMMC on N950 Jul 03 00:12:00 javispedro, no, just made another sd card with btrfs Jul 03 00:12:03 Hurrian: ah Jul 03 00:12:16 if the first one worked, better see if this one boots faster Jul 03 00:12:25 unfortunately, the first one made me reflash Jul 03 00:12:34 considering both meegoCE and harmattan have both independently chosen ext4 over btrfs.. Jul 03 00:12:52 (note: don't know the details behind the decision, just results) Jul 03 00:12:54 btrfs has still some known issues Jul 03 00:12:59 cehteh ++ Jul 03 00:13:01 ext4 on flash is a debatable decision indeed Jul 03 00:13:04 ENOSPCs everywhere Jul 03 00:13:14 enospc is fixed meanwhile Jul 03 00:13:20 uncleanly unmounted BTRFS FSes can KP you when mounted Jul 03 00:13:26 that is a bitch Jul 03 00:13:55 definitely not worth the 10 seconds of boot i save on rotating media Jul 03 00:13:56 ext4 w/o journal? Jul 03 00:13:58 but failing to write to the superblock gives a kernel panic and possibly leaves a corrupted fs behind Jul 03 00:14:01 or is it w/journal? Jul 03 00:14:10 Yeah, btrfs caused a lot of problems with battery popping Jul 03 00:14:14 ext4 on the n900 works well for me Jul 03 00:14:22 because journaling FS wouldn't make sense on flash memory.. Jul 03 00:14:23 ext4 without journal? wtf? Jul 03 00:14:39 FIQ: why that? Jul 03 00:15:04 ext4 without journal is like, well, ext2 :P Jul 03 00:15:05 you need barriers and some gurantees about writes Jul 03 00:15:09 alterego: not really Jul 03 00:15:10 as you never know what order things is written on it? Jul 03 00:15:14 probably the jnl should be write-balanced Jul 03 00:15:17 nah you still get delalloc which is quite cool Jul 03 00:15:22 also, no one uses full journaling Jul 03 00:15:30 alterego: most of the innovation in FSs comes from algorithms, not ondisk data structures, which is why I dislike btrfs. Jul 03 00:15:31 javispedro: is that just ext3 then? :) Jul 03 00:15:31 FIQ: thats more a firmware thing Jul 03 00:15:45 but not a flash fault per se Jul 03 00:15:54 ok Jul 03 00:15:56 alterego: so ext4 without journaling is like ext2 with extends from a ondisk structures PoV, but uises the ext4 code, so it's faster. Jul 03 00:16:00 then i learned something new Jul 03 00:16:11 javispedro: ah right Jul 03 00:16:12 alterego: extents and delayed allocation make using ext4 favorable alone Jul 03 00:16:20 *extents Jul 03 00:16:31 neay, well, g'night folks. Jul 03 00:16:35 then set laptop mode to 600 or such .. and you get very infrequent well ordered writes Jul 03 00:16:36 neat .. Jul 03 00:16:38 cya alterego Jul 03 00:16:48 sleep hard Jul 03 00:27:16 another thing to watch out for on the N950 firmware: pmconfig is SR 300-1000 Jul 03 00:41:10 good morning Jul 03 00:43:41 morning Jul 03 00:43:58 hi Jul 03 01:51:32 aaaaaaargh DocScrutinizer is absolutely right, the Xinput2 stuff has already changed. Jul 03 02:02:28 ... Jul 03 02:02:32 Slashdot. Jul 03 02:02:40 An ad for 'visual COBOL' Jul 03 02:02:58 \o/ Jul 03 02:04:56 DocScrutinizer51: and obviously the n9 way is already outdated. before shipping. yay! Jul 03 02:05:41 N9 way for what? Jul 03 02:05:52 for X11 multitouch events Jul 03 02:06:07 oh right, that thing has multitouch Jul 03 02:06:53 that thing should be used more tbh Jul 03 02:07:09 like, if you're gonna take resistive from us, improve the UI to use multitouch Jul 03 02:07:17 pinch to close an app in task viewer Jul 03 02:07:21 rather than hold + click Jul 03 02:07:55 * javispedro feels déjà vu Jul 03 02:07:56 my biggest criticism with multitouch is that it requires two hands for most things Jul 03 02:08:13 pinch in taskswitcher is zoom Jul 03 02:08:30 zoom in taskswitcher? Jul 03 02:08:32 DocScrutinizer51, whole screen, not a thumbnail Jul 03 02:08:42 3*3 to 2*3 Jul 03 02:08:50 pfft. Jul 03 02:09:05 mompls Jul 03 02:11:47 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0dxk1t88LM&NR=1 you probably should watch this Jul 03 02:12:45 aaaaaah, so that's the quick bar. Jul 03 02:12:49 ta, DocScrutinizer . Jul 03 02:12:59 *quick launch bar. Jul 03 02:16:29 it looks like they really did a good job on the UI finally Jul 03 02:16:48 i wonder who designed it Jul 03 02:17:38 Nokia Maps is still sloooow to launch. Jul 03 02:17:50 :( Jul 03 02:17:59 like how long? Jul 03 02:18:02 >10s? Jul 03 02:18:13 Does anyone happen to have heard of linux drivers for the nokia DAB radio? Jul 03 02:18:16 http://www.nokia.co.uk/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/headsets-accessories/wired-headsets/nokia-digital-radio-headset-dab/specifications Jul 03 02:18:27 ieatlint: 12 seconds Jul 03 02:18:59 yeah, 12 is too long. i understand the technical issues that make it take longer than google maps on iphone/android Jul 03 02:19:07 hum Jul 03 02:19:11 for some reason the Drip app starts up faster. Jul 03 02:19:13 but the user doesn't care as much Jul 03 02:19:17 *Drive Jul 03 02:19:19 not drip, lol. Jul 03 02:19:51 i know that if you make a QML app that uses the Map element, it'll load very quickly Jul 03 02:20:21 javispedro, cause you're driving when you're expected to load it Jul 03 02:20:25 an issue of loading the map engine/data Jul 03 02:20:44 the presents has lots of problems to swipe despite this being a c-ts. Jul 03 02:20:58 * javispedro spits remotely on the c-ts. Jul 03 02:21:08 *the presenter Jul 03 02:21:53 javispedro, the guy accidentally does some things that he didn't mean too and then acts like that was what he meant to do :p Jul 03 02:23:00 like in the photos app xD Jul 03 02:23:06 or the media app Jul 03 02:23:07 i seem to do that a lot myself Jul 03 02:23:25 yeah Jul 03 02:23:31 ieatlint: ability to do that and pass it off is great skill. Jul 03 02:23:48 I also love how he demoed speakers with a headset Jul 03 02:24:02 use the damn play 360 speaker so we all hear it working Jul 03 02:24:13 you think it works =) Jul 03 02:24:26 I'm sure pulseaudio crapped on itself when the drive app showed that non responding dialog Jul 03 02:24:58 nah, with 1GB of RAM, nothing can go wrong! Jul 03 02:26:54 yes, nothing, ever Jul 03 02:27:42 cause it runs multiple copies of harmattan using vmware mobile and it switches randomly to one that works from time to time Jul 03 02:27:43 with 1GB of ram+ramz, what's with swapping? Jul 03 02:27:55 god damn, nokia Jul 03 02:28:13 javispedro, randomly and works? wow Jul 03 02:28:32 the nfc bluetooth pairing is long overdue Jul 03 02:28:32 it's not running a dalvik vm with sloppy memory collection Jul 03 02:28:37 MohammadAG: statistics say that might work. Jul 03 02:28:49 the nokia 6121 back in 2007 supported it, but there pretty much were no devices Jul 03 02:28:49 ieatlint BT NFC ++ Jul 03 02:29:07 10 seconds to find and pair devices? lolno Jul 03 02:29:24 BT should die already, wifi direct is here to save the day Jul 03 02:29:27 plus typing in bullshit pins and putting devices into sync mode... it's a pain Jul 03 02:29:30 nfc is new technology, how can it be overdue? Jul 03 02:29:31 * javispedro watches the store app steal focus from the presenter Jul 03 02:29:37 I can pair in 3 seconds Jul 03 02:29:43 the dialog takes 10 to open Jul 03 02:29:43 not to mention BT fucks over wifi Jul 03 02:29:57 Parslee: the standard for bluetooth pairing was finalized in 2007 Jul 03 02:30:05 ieatlint, you don't have to type codes with the N900 Jul 03 02:30:14 and nokia had a proprietary implementation of it in 2006 Jul 03 02:30:16 There's EDR or whatever Jul 03 02:30:26 so it's old :P Jul 03 02:30:30 it asks you "is the code the same" on both devices Jul 03 02:30:37 MohammadAG: still annoying :P Jul 03 02:30:42 and you just click pair Jul 03 02:30:53 only works with new devices though Jul 03 02:32:59 nfc bt pairing is also more intuitive Jul 03 02:33:07 hold the device to the phone, done Jul 03 02:33:23 gimme my wifi-direct pairing now Jul 03 02:33:28 gimme it at N speeds Jul 03 02:33:37 and crap the battery Jul 03 02:33:49 javispedro , point taken Jul 03 02:33:54 gotta sleep, night Jul 03 02:33:59 me too, gnite. Jul 03 02:34:03 bt isnt better for anything other than input devices Jul 03 02:34:06 looking at wifi-direct... looks pretty meh Jul 03 02:34:13 at that point, we can stop at BT2.1 Jul 03 02:34:24 file transfers? wifi N speeds Jul 03 02:34:40 calls? wifi G speeds Jul 03 02:34:42 nfc pairing makes more sense Jul 03 02:34:55 nfc pairing makes so much sense Jul 03 02:35:02 not just because of the pairing speed Jul 03 02:35:16 i mean, you put 2 devices together, even a baby can do it Jul 03 02:35:44 it's also versatile pairing, you can create an nfc tag that says "connect to this wifi network with this password, then go download this mp3 file via ftp, and then play it" Jul 03 02:36:11 ++ Jul 03 02:36:14 I can't see how that could be abused at all. Jul 03 02:36:26 no way Jul 03 02:36:30 speedevil, prank time Jul 03 02:36:33 SpeedEvil: all implementations have prompts on the device Jul 03 02:36:33 cool concept Jul 03 02:36:41 so if you can get your friend to start pressing ok a lot.. Jul 03 02:36:52 ieatlint: Targeted exploits Jul 03 02:36:53 hmm, NFC placemat time ;) Jul 03 02:37:03 >trollface.png Jul 03 02:37:19 one-touch jailbreaks and one-touch rm -rf? Jul 03 02:37:21 that's great Jul 03 02:37:26 eh, yeah, it's not foolproof Jul 03 02:37:51 but for the step i mentioned above, there would be a prompt to pair with the network, a prompt to download the file and a prompt to play it Jul 03 02:37:55 "tap your phone on this pad to get free lady gaga music!" Jul 03 02:37:57 that's 3 OK buttons they have to ignore Jul 03 02:38:02 "press yes when prompted!" Jul 03 02:38:08 totally foolprof, guise Jul 03 02:38:12 social engineering IRL Jul 03 02:38:30 that kind of exploit exists without nfc Jul 03 02:38:44 ieatlint: nfc makes it easier Jul 03 02:38:55 instead of making a user click on cryptic shit Jul 03 02:39:00 that they dont know what it does Jul 03 02:39:09 qrcode Jul 03 02:39:14 they use nfc, which they know can be used to transfer files n shit Jul 03 02:39:27 nfc is a bad idea to transfer real data Jul 03 02:39:42 speedevil - takes a few seconds to focus Jul 03 02:39:45 you'll typically get from 100kbit to 400kbit (most often 100-200) Jul 03 02:39:53 and you're screwed when you dont have good lighting Jul 03 02:40:23 you know of that (back when) IRDA billboard poster wall, that told users "hold your device here to join the competition for the holiday", and then made the user's phones send an sms and downloaded all the contacts from his phonebook? Jul 03 02:40:58 as said, nfc for quick setup (hmm, tap here for wifi setup) instead of entering a long-ass code Jul 03 02:41:03 goodbye AOSS Jul 03 02:41:23 DocScrutinizer: yeah, that's awesome Jul 03 02:41:49 the SMS part exists with nfc (with a user prompt), but the downloading of the phone book doesn't Jul 03 02:42:12 in before bugged NFC software Jul 03 02:42:19 unless you manage get the phone to install an app that steals it Jul 03 02:42:42 it's probably not in the protocol, it's probably in the firmware Jul 03 02:43:04 definitely possible Jul 03 02:43:19 "this only affects certain models of android smartphones made by $GENERIC_DROID_MAKER" Jul 03 02:44:04 nah, that's not likely... it would almost definitely be part of the higher nfc stack Jul 03 02:44:07 hmm, OTA seems to make sense now Jul 03 02:46:27 shame the n950 lacks nfc :( Jul 03 02:46:53 I find it a bit funny the N9 has dolby acme whatnot, but only one speaker Jul 03 02:47:48 DocScrutinizer: 2 speakers Jul 03 02:47:53 one is hidden Jul 03 02:47:54 uhuh Jul 03 02:48:18 That's what a couple of Nokia reps have said anyway Jul 03 02:48:35 [citation needed] **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jul 03 02:59:57 2011