**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jul 08 02:59:58 2011 Jul 08 03:04:58 DocScrutinizer, does the software seem usable? Jul 08 03:05:07 My benchmark right now is the Garmin navigation units. Jul 08 03:13:08 i need an n8 i cant handel it Jul 08 03:14:58 pauly: well you better ask in a #symbian channel or somewhere else .. Jul 08 03:15:34 .o(it gets annoying) Jul 08 03:28:29 GeneralAntilles: any update on the 950s? Jul 08 03:28:30 http://tech.rancorous.net/?p=19 Jul 08 03:28:43 wow and here i haven't touched that wp install i set up forever ago in forever haha Jul 08 03:29:20 maybe if i get the usb port working again i will order that housing and do another one for that one as well :) Jul 08 03:33:58 Macer: you are lucky that the pads didnt came off .. looks easy to repair Jul 08 03:34:17 i suppose mine was simple wear and tear Jul 08 03:34:32 from constantly plugging it in and out so it broke off rather cleanly Jul 08 03:35:11 cehteh: my problem is how do you solder those tracks onto the pads ;) which is where i am going to have to take DocScrutinizer's advice and find an electronics expert to do it Jul 08 03:35:19 yes but most often the contact between solder and copper is beter than between copper and pcb base Jul 08 03:35:49 ah i see Jul 08 03:36:14 when the traces, pads and wires are damaged things get much more hairy Jul 08 03:36:32 yeah. it seems to have simply... fallen off Jul 08 03:36:42 maybe it was cheap solder that disintegrated :) Jul 08 03:36:47 haha Jul 08 03:37:00 high iron content and oxidized off hehe Jul 08 03:37:25 could have been from my overuse Jul 08 03:37:29 and the solder melted off! Jul 08 03:37:34 lol Jul 08 03:38:07 i should really look after my connector .. but i am reclutant, the 2 years warranty period isnt over yet Jul 08 03:38:21 it will break off 2 years 1 day ;) Jul 08 03:38:36 thats the day i'll fix it anyways Jul 08 03:38:42 that way they force you to get an n9 or n950 (if they make it out there) Jul 08 03:38:56 actually it scares me more if nokia will give me a n8 for replacement Jul 08 03:39:06 HAHAHA Jul 08 03:39:10 for what do i need a n8 :P Jul 08 03:39:12 is the n8 that bad? Jul 08 03:39:20 its not maemo Jul 08 03:39:26 neither is meego ;) Jul 08 03:39:37 i mean cmon... rpm? Jul 08 03:39:38 fail Jul 08 03:39:57 i need to find a better wp theme Jul 08 03:39:58 well at least its a linux with a reasonable complete userland Jul 08 03:40:06 true Jul 08 03:40:12 unlike android. omg this g2 has me losing it Jul 08 03:40:17 i am pulling my hair out not having my n900 Jul 08 03:40:36 I NEED MY ARROW KEYS!! Jul 08 03:40:49 my ctrl key! XTERM!! Jul 08 03:40:55 0000000015: POSTCONDITION: c9buf.c:93: thread_1: c9buf_commit: (self->wpos + n < self->buf + self->size) Jul 08 03:40:58 mhmpf .. Jul 08 03:41:14 maybe its time to fix bugs and add tests :P Jul 08 03:41:55 heh Jul 08 03:42:07 ah well. guess all i do is wait for my port to show up Jul 08 03:42:23 if it works i'll buy a couple extras just in case i ever have another nokia Jul 08 03:46:00 haha i doubt they fit universally Jul 08 03:47:04 wtf Jul 08 03:47:17 my wp site just died on me when i tried changing the theme Jul 08 03:47:18 ugh! Jul 08 03:47:34 nice :P Jul 08 03:47:45 i know! wth Jul 08 03:48:05 thats why i dont have a wordpress page :P Jul 08 03:48:15 git+asciidoc ftw Jul 08 03:55:02 it was the theme Jul 08 03:55:19 odd. ah well. i just had to delete the theme and it went back to the dfault. i am trying to something a little more "simple" Jul 08 04:01:17 ok, new libvibrator.so is in place Jul 08 04:01:21 and my phone still boots Jul 08 04:01:26 which means mce should have loaded it Jul 08 04:01:28 oh wait no Jul 08 04:01:59 libvibrator?? :) Jul 08 04:02:03 what are you doing with your phone??? Jul 08 04:04:33 its the mce plugin for the phones vibrator Jul 08 04:04:51 used when you set the phone to vibrate Jul 08 04:05:06 so you can use it in places where you dont want it to make a loud noise when it rings Jul 08 04:05:09 :) Jul 08 04:05:56 er.... :) so this is to turn the vibration down? Jul 08 04:06:17 or to turn it into a makeshift dildo for emergency circumstances? Jul 08 04:14:58 the awkward silence :) Jul 08 04:15:04 my plugin doesnt work Jul 08 04:15:13 I need to get syslog going and find out whats going on Jul 08 04:16:04 anyone know the right thing to put in syslog.conf to log everything? Jul 08 04:20:06 I cant get it to log userspace stuff Jul 08 04:26:21 ok, its logging something but I dont know if its logging everything Jul 08 04:26:30 everything that it should be logging that is Jul 08 04:33:07 Its logging mce messages that pass LOG_CRIT Jul 08 04:33:11 but not LOG_NOTICE Jul 08 04:33:19 how do I get it to log these LOG_NOTICE messages? Jul 08 04:38:46 ok, got something useful now I think Jul 08 04:40:22 nope Jul 08 04:40:30 cant get it to log LOG_NOTICE messages Jul 08 04:43:52 oh wait, I need to see what the logverbosity is Jul 08 04:47:42 Morning Jul 08 04:52:29 warning, do not attempt to kill or restart the mode control entity, it wont work :P Jul 08 04:58:14 * jonwil slaps self in face Jul 08 04:58:27 Might help if I didnt try to run an x86 binary on a N900 :P Jul 08 05:04:44 why does bluetooth always lagg? Jul 08 05:04:53 i mean a BTH headset Jul 08 05:26:18 fingers crossed that this works Jul 08 05:26:28 and that it loads the libvibrator.so properly Jul 08 05:26:33 and that said module works Jul 08 05:36:58 funny, the n950 comes with all the NFC libraries installed Jul 08 05:38:55 * slonopotamus yawns Jul 08 05:39:41 yeah, that's as interesting as i get. Jul 08 05:40:16 anyone successfully booted openwrt kernel on n8x0? Jul 08 05:50:34 ok, that was a bust Jul 08 05:51:24 All I succeeded in doing is to get mce to go crazy and my system to run slow and take forever to start various things (like the status bar with the widgets) Jul 08 05:51:44 Now back to the standard libvibrator.so Jul 08 05:52:03 will dump the code I have somewhere, make a mailing list post and see if anyone can help me find out why its not working Jul 08 06:25:58 now F5, waiting for order sent email :/ Jul 08 06:26:14 lol Jul 08 06:26:52 so far every step has included a F5 or Ctrl/Cmd-R button Jul 08 06:34:04 jonwil: libvibrator huh Jul 08 06:34:06 ¬.¬ Jul 08 06:40:24 kerio: Someone could have some /fun/ with that ¬.¬ Jul 08 06:47:32 hmm does N900 support UMTS on the 900 band? Jul 08 06:48:48 yes it does Jul 08 06:48:57 It does 900 but not 850 Jul 08 06:49:12 hmm nice Jul 08 06:49:34 it does HDSPA 900/1700/2100 Jul 08 06:49:34 just found out that my cellco is gonna be upgrading their umts to get 85% coverage using umts 900 Jul 08 06:54:26 gah, will nokia ship mine today :/ Jul 08 06:59:39 HI Jul 08 06:59:49 heloo Jul 08 06:59:58 some one to talk here? Jul 08 07:01:00 No Jul 08 07:20:25 Urghhhhhhh hangover Jul 08 07:25:01 Noobmonk3y: tell me about it :P Jul 08 07:40:32 Morning ! Jul 08 07:44:29 Morning, all Jul 08 07:44:55 MohammadAG: Yup, only built-in chat is Facebook. Jul 08 07:45:09 khertan: morning Jul 08 07:59:24 w00t, new experimental features, Qt Quick Designer :D Jul 08 08:02:18 if i want to run bash on my n900, which package should i choose, bash3 or bash4? Jul 08 08:04:13 vdv, depends on the version... both provide it Jul 08 08:18:57 Looks like I'm gonna have to wait for Quim to come back from Holidays, oh well. Jul 08 08:20:25 alterego: and I am dieing waiting for the device to ship :/ Jul 08 08:20:45 isn't it a 1 business day shipping time? Jul 08 08:21:37 Depends on the time it was shipped. Jul 08 08:22:07 I mean, 1 business day from order to shipping Jul 08 08:22:49 Depends on the time it was ordered Jul 08 08:23:04 If it's too late in the day, then no, you wont get next day. Jul 08 08:23:06 ruskie, description for bash3 contains "tuned for maemo", for bash4 there's no such hing Jul 08 08:23:08 *hint Jul 08 08:23:21 alterego: around 6-ish PM .fi time Jul 08 08:23:37 and GeneralAntilles orderd his around noon, and hasn't got it shipped yet Jul 08 08:24:43 vdv, I doubt there's much difference Jul 08 08:26:15 alterego: http://twitter.com/#!/kypeli/status/89244218853294080 :( :( :( Jul 08 08:27:23 Why exactly is it a problem to use the closed maemo drivers in another distro? Jul 08 08:27:48 Shapeshifter: Two things: One, you theoretically could do it, but you're limited to the same kernel version. Jul 08 08:28:05 And two, you can't distribute it without incurring the wrath of the IP gods. Jul 08 08:28:24 But for our case, the former's more important Jul 08 08:29:26 Also of note is that our drivers only provide OpenGL-ES support, and most Linux apps need the full OpenGL stack, so it doesn't give us much benefit... unless we've got optimized applications, or a OpenGL-gles translator Jul 08 08:31:29 I wonder if they've had trouble matching up my accout because it's 10 years old. Jul 08 08:32:47 alterego: I feel for you man, I know the sadness when others have it and I/you dont :( Jul 08 08:33:32 also, the F5 key is in my hand right now :P Jul 08 08:33:36 stupid KB Jul 08 08:35:37 hiemanshu: JB Kwik. Works wonders. Jul 08 08:35:43 OREDERED Jul 08 08:35:45 (i.e. two-part epoxy) Jul 08 08:35:46 I don't really care, would have been nicer sooner rather than later, but meh. Jul 08 08:35:49 i.e. ordered Jul 08 08:36:29 robbiethe1st: its a laptop :P I can fix it back easy Jul 08 08:36:40 Now Quim has gone on holiday I don't really have anyone I can talk to to sort it out. Jul 08 08:37:11 So I'm gonna have to wait until he gets back :/ Jul 08 08:37:26 alterego: he said he is back next week right? Jul 08 08:38:01 robbiethe1st: I see. Jul 08 08:38:39 RST38h: you ordered what? Jul 08 08:38:59 There is only one thing I could have ordered, right? Jul 08 08:39:12 No, he said he's gone for a week Jul 08 08:39:17 RST38h: I thought the registration for a device closed a while ago Jul 08 08:39:26 Shapeshifter: ordered N950 Jul 08 08:40:00 not registered, Shapeshifter, ordered Jul 08 08:40:02 Lets hope my N8 arrives today so I can play with some HDMI goodness. Jul 08 08:40:19 alterego: make sure you install that experimental media center form nokia Jul 08 08:40:20 through ebay scam? Jul 08 08:40:34 morning Jul 08 08:40:45 Anyone got a DHL tracking number yet? Jul 08 08:40:46 I've never seen one could `order' N950 apart from that ebay scam Jul 08 08:40:48 lardman: got email from ddp. ordered. Jul 08 08:40:52 RST38h: I'll have a look, is that on labs? Jul 08 08:40:53 no tracking number though Jul 08 08:40:56 ddp? Jul 08 08:41:02 RST38h: same here Jul 08 08:41:05 alterego: yep. MohammadAG has details. Jul 08 08:41:07 wait.. you went through that email application? Jul 08 08:41:10 he is using it Jul 08 08:41:52 psycho_oreos: Developer Device Program, for the 250 approved meego hackers Jul 08 08:42:07 hiemanshu, ah bah Jul 08 08:42:30 lardman: ordered yest, no details yes, though DocScrutinizer got his within 5 mins of order (device shipped email) Jul 08 08:43:07 ah well, perhaps they're bundling up our shipping Jul 08 08:43:15 no chance of seeing it this weekend then Jul 08 08:43:35 lardman: yeah, hoping thats what is happening now Jul 08 08:46:00 Would be nice to see a shipped email this morning though as there's then a chance it could get here tomorrow Jul 08 08:46:13 You all got Apps published on Ovi? Jul 08 08:46:31 I should add, on a different topic, that TalkTalk are truely craptastic, another 3 weeks until they will connect my broadband after a 3 week wait for a phone line. Argh! Jul 08 08:46:56 lardman: they are shit, and all their call centres are in india .. Jul 08 08:47:07 You should have gone with Virgin. Jul 08 08:47:32 alterego: can't where we are Jul 08 08:47:41 Lame :/ Jul 08 08:47:51 should have gone with plusnet, but I was a talk talk customer before I moved, so I assumed they'd just get on with it Jul 08 08:48:01 You know virgin offer broad band through BT lines too .. Jul 08 08:48:10 alterego: would be expensive though Jul 08 08:48:19 m'kay Jul 08 08:48:30 Shapeshifter: no, this is the meego ddp, which has different conditions to the nokia developer direct application Jul 08 08:50:41 This comes out at ~£25/month all in, which is pretty good Jul 08 08:51:02 as we're not local loop unbundled here, you need to add ~£11 to anyone else's deal except Bt Jul 08 08:51:26 though TalkTalk did a deal, which is probably why they are not overly keen to sort me out sooner Jul 08 08:51:29 buggers Jul 08 08:51:40 lame Jul 08 08:51:47 lardman: Ah I see. Jul 08 08:52:00 is there a way to use com.nokia.meego for the desktop as well? Jul 08 08:54:10 Well, I sent my details straight to launchpad in the hope they can corrolate my account in Quims absence. Jul 08 08:59:07 http://twitpic.com/5mvljv < i think i need help of an icon designer :) Jul 08 09:02:26 icons look fine khertan Jul 08 09:04:02 khertan: I like them .. Jul 08 09:04:26 that means "i cba to make good icons for you" Jul 08 09:05:46 alterego: it s not mine :) stolen from a cc gnome theme :) Jul 08 09:05:57 Heh Jul 08 09:09:26 that means "i cba doing it myself either" Jul 08 09:20:33 Termana: got the email yet? Jul 08 09:22:16 doers anyone here use firefox mobile? Jul 08 09:23:00 i was advised by a friend to switch from microb to that, but it clogs up my system worse than anything ive ever seen Jul 08 09:23:26 microb? Jul 08 09:23:35 <[DarkGUNMAN]> i only ever use it in meego because its the only browser Jul 08 09:23:57 yeah firefox mobile (known as nightly) is quite slow on N900, takes about 10 or so seconds to load up Jul 08 09:24:25 <[DarkGUNMAN]> microb - Maemo's web browser built on mozilla, firefox desktop plugin compatible Jul 08 09:24:52 yeah it sucks on n900! microb is the fastest i have tested! Jul 08 09:25:08 not a whole bunch of firefox desktop plugins are supported notably :) Jul 08 09:25:14 <[DarkGUNMAN]> someone needs to port microb to meego so it can use it with cordia :) Jul 08 09:26:37 <[DarkGUNMAN]> using a few plugins, adblock, noscript, fasterfox, spped dns, ad ban Jul 08 09:27:15 <[DarkGUNMAN]> fasterfox, speed dns, and ad ban make it run like lightning Jul 08 09:27:31 you meant ad block Jul 08 09:28:05 <[DarkGUNMAN]> nope, i mean ad ban Jul 08 09:28:21 <[DarkGUNMAN]> i disabled adblock to test it Jul 08 09:28:30 anyone having trouble with maemo.org garage svn commits? Jul 08 09:29:10 didn't use it since i try it :) Jul 08 09:29:28 I get a cryptic message along the lines of: svn: OPTIONS of 'url to proximus here'@ 200 OK (https//vcs.maemo.org) Jul 08 09:29:41 s/@/: Jul 08 09:29:48 hiemanshu, which one? Jul 08 09:30:03 Termana: the N950 is waiting for you one? Jul 08 09:30:19 hiemanshu, yeah, I ordered yesterday. Still waiting for a tracking number. Jul 08 09:30:59 Termana: ah, same here Jul 08 09:31:08 Termana: thankfully no more fake mails :P Jul 08 09:31:15 hiemanshu, ;) :p Jul 08 09:32:17 hiemanshu, Your tracking number is 1337101 Jul 08 09:32:29 Termana: got it? Jul 08 09:32:29 maybe you'll just get fake ones containing DocScrutinizer's tracking number Jul 08 09:32:53 hiemanshu, no, 1337, leet, 101, lol :p Jul 08 09:32:58 lol Jul 08 09:33:06 Termana: and I actually hit F5 :P Jul 08 09:33:15 TROLOLOLO :p Jul 08 09:33:27 :) Jul 08 09:34:42 Hey guys, do you know any way to get the IMEI number from the console? Jul 08 09:34:56 robbiethe1st: on Fremantle ? Jul 08 09:35:00 Yea Jul 08 09:35:19 robbiethe1st: dbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.phone.SIM /com/nokia/phone/SIM/security Phone.Sim.Security.get_imei|awk -F "\"" '/g/ {print $2}' Jul 08 09:35:32 Perfect, thanks Jul 08 09:36:02 robbiethe1st: http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Get_IMEI Jul 08 09:38:00 <[DarkGUNMAN]> is there a dbus message to pickup when an app has been rotated/forced rotated by cssu? Jul 08 09:38:29 <[DarkGUNMAN]> this is for a qbw monitoring for dbus events Jul 08 09:39:58 khertan: are you using com.nokia.meego too? Jul 08 09:41:57 hiemanshu: no ... i didn't use cross plateform language and framework to loose that with components Jul 08 09:42:25 hiemanshu: the components are nice ... but lock you on harmattan only Jul 08 09:42:49 and force you to rewrite for each plateform where they aren't available Jul 08 09:43:42 khertan: com.nokia.meego and com.nokia.symbian are the same just differently themed, you can use those for symbian/meego, and com.nokia.meego might be ported to fremantle as well, so if that is done, we have a cross platform one Jul 08 09:44:14 hiemanshu: i didn't restrict my dev to harmattan and fremantle ... :) Jul 08 09:44:21 khertan: umm then? Jul 08 09:44:53 and anyway, as i dev on my n900, until they aren't available, i can't use them Jul 08 09:44:54 :) Jul 08 09:45:14 hiemanshu: meego ce, debian desktop Jul 08 09:45:21 hiemanshu: windows seven Jul 08 09:45:32 khertan: yes, it should be ported to meego ce, and desktop as well Jul 08 09:45:40 atleast thats what I heard Jul 08 09:45:47 it should ... i didn't believe until i see it Jul 08 09:45:54 heh ok Jul 08 09:58:46 [DarkGUNMAN]: you mean you use MicroB with those add-ons? not firefox? Jul 08 09:59:46 <[DarkGUNMAN]> yes, i use microb with those add-ons and it runs like a charm, especially thanks to fasterfox and ad ban Jul 08 10:00:04 my friend said switching from MicroB to firefox was the best thing he ever did to save battery. judging from my load figures, that cant possibly be true Jul 08 10:00:40 as soon as i try to switch to firefox, my load goes over 10 for a long time Jul 08 10:00:44 I find that hard to believe Jul 08 10:00:44 <[DarkGUNMAN]> I can't stand firefox mobile Jul 08 10:00:53 that he actually got better battery performance Jul 08 10:00:59 same here its driving me crazy Jul 08 10:01:33 just wanted to check if it was just on my phone, thanks Jul 08 10:01:42 <[DarkGUNMAN]> hang on I'll find the thread on tmo that clued me into this Jul 08 10:01:44 switching back to microb then Jul 08 10:01:53 into what? Jul 08 10:03:39 <[DarkGUNMAN]> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=72992&highlight=fasterfox Jul 08 10:04:34 <[DarkGUNMAN]> morning hurrian Jul 08 10:04:52 ohai DarkGUNMAN Jul 08 10:05:11 [DarkGUNMAN]: thx Jul 08 10:05:49 hmm, still dont know whether harmattan uses uxlaunch or some other nokia crap, so the chroot will have to wait Jul 08 10:05:56 <[DarkGUNMAN]> your proposded change to hildon-desktop, is this an add-on or replacement for status-area and status-menu? Jul 08 10:06:31 it's a replacement for the hildon-desktop metapackage Jul 08 10:06:34 everything. Jul 08 10:06:41 <[DarkGUNMAN]> no problem ludens. Jul 08 10:07:06 even matchbox will probably be scrapped Jul 08 10:07:19 i actually feel like just forking gnome 3 code Jul 08 10:07:44 <[DarkGUNMAN]> ah right. not something that could be ported (like cordia) to meego at a later date? Jul 08 10:08:40 <[DarkGUNMAN]> if you got an enhanced hildon running as the meego uxtheme you're onto a winner! Jul 08 10:10:39 darkgunman, it's a large diversion from hildon Jul 08 10:10:49 it might not even share anything with hildon except for GTK Jul 08 10:11:11 ...and I intent to use GTK3 and any, and all image engines available Jul 08 10:13:40 MicroB has "javascript pausing" feature that halts js execution after X seconds after display goes off. If you disable that, I imagine batterylife goes down quite significantly Jul 08 10:15:44 <[DarkGUNMAN]> okay. was curious about it :) i know its a long way off before anything will be ready, but I'm happy to do any extensive testing required. Been trying to simplify the installation of cordia, and test which meego apps work and don't work. Jul 08 10:16:08 <[DarkGUNMAN]> so i'd be methodical about it. Jul 08 10:19:07 in other news, i got gnome3-desktop to run on the n900 Jul 08 10:19:18 problems: mostly RAM related Jul 08 10:19:31 other problems: had to rebuild mutter to use gles Jul 08 10:19:50 hmm, should probably shoot a video of it Jul 08 10:20:27 <[DarkGUNMAN]> would be nice to see. Might run better if compcache gets sorted out for power48 kernel Jul 08 10:21:37 didn't use maemo, i had to use meego without handset UX Jul 08 10:21:45 basically, launched gdm Jul 08 10:31:05 hurrian, are you planning to actually use it?-) Jul 08 10:34:01 flux, no calling UI Jul 08 10:34:07 so, a big nope Jul 08 10:34:20 well, if i actually learn how to write code, i might Jul 08 10:34:47 but then, starting GNOME takes ~2 minutes Jul 08 10:34:52 which is unbearable Jul 08 10:35:39 <[DarkGUNMAN]> never coded c++ so I'm trying to find a good place to start learning. any good tutorials out there? Jul 08 10:37:18 N8 loud speaker is pretty good. Jul 08 10:37:33 <[DarkGUNMAN]> once i get proficient in c++ then i can learn qt Jul 08 10:37:57 alterego, how does it match up to the N95's? Jul 08 10:38:01 Hurrian, planing on getting e17 illume working on it? Jul 08 10:38:15 ruskie, doesn't e17 already work on easy debian? Jul 08 10:38:29 Hurrian, native I meant ;) Jul 08 10:38:47 personally, the only thing that kills E17 for me would be the task switching and the low contrast white theme Jul 08 10:39:03 other than that, it's true that it's the original king of bling Jul 08 10:39:04 illume? Jul 08 10:39:15 that's designed for mobile devices? Jul 08 10:39:18 yes Jul 08 10:39:22 i used the mobile theme Jul 08 10:39:37 it's not just a theme Jul 08 10:39:38 all themes are white though, and provide almost no contrast Jul 08 10:39:45 ruskie, i know Jul 08 10:39:48 desktop configs and all Jul 08 10:39:54 it's a setting... use it as desktop vs mobile Jul 08 10:39:57 hmm Jul 08 10:40:17 E17 doesn't look like it's built for the desktop - window management is a mess, but it looks great on small devices Jul 08 10:40:39 hmm it is? Jul 08 10:41:00 yeah, have you tried it on easy debian? Jul 08 10:41:02 it tends to do a better job at window managing than tilling wms Jul 08 10:41:11 runs way faster than LXDE Jul 08 10:41:22 ...or it's just all the animations Jul 08 10:41:39 I run it on my eeepc 701... since meego refuses to support non-sse3 devices Jul 08 10:42:03 feels and looks just fine Jul 08 10:42:43 hmm, MeeGo should really offer i686 builds Jul 08 10:43:06 then again, >>>intel and they probably want everyone to use Atoms Jul 08 10:46:53 hmm, it'll be interesting to see the state of the N900 community a year from now Jul 08 10:47:59 we'll have cordia, nitdroid, meego CE, and probably Harmattan HE all available as alternative OSes Jul 08 10:51:34 <[DarkGUNMAN]> i don't think the nitdroid lot afe going affect things too much, but it'll take a familiar interface like cordia to get people to move or try meego. If harmattan gets ported to ce then it would get more attention. Jul 08 10:52:08 * lardman heads off to pick up a van to move more furniture Jul 08 10:52:14 have a nice weekend all Jul 08 10:52:16 oh : http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php?f=WinFlasher_3.11.5.exe :) Jul 08 10:57:32 <[DarkGUNMAN]> ludens: if you are looking to save battery give opera mini 4, and a 2G connection a try. works for me for light browsing. Jul 08 11:01:50 does anybody know, is it possible to get battery icon back without deinstalling advanced power? Jul 08 11:03:51 <[DarkGUNMAN]> /usr/share/applications/hildon-status-menu Jul 08 11:04:27 <[DarkGUNMAN]> move advanced-power.desktop to /disabled Jul 08 11:05:00 <[DarkGUNMAN]> move status-area-applet-battery.desktop from /disabled Jul 08 11:06:02 <[DarkGUNMAN]> morning Pali Jul 08 11:06:31 alterego, got the N8 yet? Jul 08 11:06:54 [DarkGUNMAN], will then advanced power function? Jul 08 11:07:57 <[DarkGUNMAN]> oh sorry thought you wanted the original one back, my bad Jul 08 11:08:15 lbt: was the harmattan target added to c-obs by now ? Jul 08 11:08:42 [DarkGUNMAN], no, i'd like to use advanced power Jul 08 11:09:12 djszapi: https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=MeeGo%3A1.2%3AHarmattan Jul 08 11:09:24 [DarkGUNMAN]: hello Jul 08 11:10:07 lbt, i'm guessing someone's running a massive alien script? Jul 08 11:10:24 <[DarkGUNMAN]> Pali is it true you are trying to get compcache to work wth the next verson of kernel-power? Jul 08 11:10:40 lbt: all kind of brilliant, thanks :) Jul 08 11:11:00 lbt: I will be the first spammer uploading 5-10 packages right away =) Jul 08 11:12:45 [DarkGUNMAN]: No I'm not trying it. Jul 08 11:15:11 iirc it was tigerite working on all the experimental stuff Jul 08 11:15:14 DocScrutinizer, harmattan has i2c-tools Jul 08 11:15:43 and therefore, almost all experimental stuff ends up in kernel-bfs Jul 08 11:17:19 MohammadAG: can you look at modest merge requests for CSSU? Jul 08 11:30:20 <[DarkGUNMAN]> MohammadAG: is there a dbus event to detect forced rotation which i could use in a qbw widget? Jul 08 11:33:01 N8 is quite nice, can't get video working out through hdmi though :/ Jul 08 11:41:15 Pali, Sc0rpious said he was going to review it Jul 08 11:41:40 alterego, sure you haven't got a defective unit? Jul 08 11:41:58 * jonwil wishes he could make some progress on things Jul 08 11:42:11 also do all SW updates, *#0000# Options -> Check for updates Jul 08 11:42:13 but I just cant get things going :( Jul 08 11:42:32 all of my projects are stuck :( Jul 08 11:43:46 MohammadAG: ok Jul 08 11:48:10 Last month I published my rewritten harmattan version for fremantle of getbootstate. Maybe is interesting for somebody. Here is link: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=73792 Jul 08 11:50:45 MohammadAG: I'll do it when I have a decent wifi connection ;) Jul 08 11:51:07 Nice job Jul 08 11:51:14 re the getbootstate thing Jul 08 11:51:30 alterego, Symbian updates aren't like maemo's, they're 1) compressed, 2) only update certain parts Jul 08 11:51:35 so an update can be 12MBs :P Jul 08 11:51:48 I've got freakin lauchpad? Jul 08 11:51:51 wait Jul 08 11:51:59 I've got freakin launchpad! Jul 08 11:52:04 :D Jul 08 11:52:15 MohammadAG: hit me with the order link Jul 08 11:52:24 ~n950order Jul 08 11:52:24 n950order is, like, https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/ProductDetailByName?productName=Nokia+N950 and wait for "internal error" changing to something wonderful eventually :-) Jul 08 11:52:42 w00t :) Jul 08 11:52:59 got an N950 there? Jul 08 11:53:08 (which I doubt :P) Jul 08 11:53:32 MohammadAG: _o/ Jul 08 11:54:02 nope, but lp is a start :) Jul 08 11:54:17 o/ RzR950 Jul 08 11:54:33 alterego, 24h and it'll be there, I didn't get an email for either Jul 08 11:55:06 mine was carried by dhl Jul 08 11:55:07 M'kay, thanks. Jul 08 11:56:39 This is pretty insane, I'm charging 5 phones a tablet pc and my laptop .. Jul 08 11:57:39 all Nokia shipments are via DHL Jul 08 11:58:09 * khertan 's one still not sent ...no tracking number yet Jul 08 11:59:55 MohammadAG: did there is a page to check status ? as email come most of the time later Jul 08 12:00:08 the DDP one ? Jul 08 12:00:17 n950order is, like, https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/ProductDetailByName?productName=Nokia+N950 and wait for "internal error" changing to something wonderful eventually :-) Jul 08 12:00:26 if it says New order, not yet shipped Jul 08 12:00:31 once you have ordered it s not anymore listed Jul 08 12:00:52 khertan, there's an orders button Jul 08 12:00:53 Unexpected error has occured. Please try again. Jul 08 12:01:11 ... :) Jul 08 12:01:32 ah ... now it s works Jul 08 12:01:34 ... Jul 08 12:01:35 New Order Jul 08 12:01:36 ;( Jul 08 12:02:01 ok so no need to wait tomorrow for it Jul 08 12:02:28 how do you know? Jul 08 12:02:32 it might ship in the evening Jul 08 12:03:01 * jonwil has run out of N900 things he can work on Jul 08 12:03:03 because even shipped in the evening ... it ll not be at home tomorrow :) Jul 08 12:03:07 ideas would be nice :) Jul 08 12:03:23 jonwil: ? Jul 08 12:03:24 jonwil: a qml app to check dhl package delivery status ? Jul 08 12:03:42 jonwil: port of harmattan components ? Jul 08 12:03:48 * SpeedEvil wants a replacement icd, which emits sane debug messages. Jul 08 12:03:49 dont know QML or how to talk to DHL :P Jul 08 12:04:03 * SpeedEvil is irritated by having to reboot to get wifi back Jul 08 12:04:10 * khertan need to reflash his n900 Jul 08 12:06:40 I'd like to merge tvout widget ( from http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=68294 ) and tvout control panel together. I see that tvout control panel only change gconf key and tvout widget setting xv attributes. So I need know who/which application monitor gconf key /system/tvout. Can somebody help me? Jul 08 12:08:31 grep for /system/tvout in /usr/bin I guess Jul 08 12:08:38 but why do you need to know? Jul 08 12:09:00 There is an open source clone of the tvout control panel btw Jul 08 12:09:02 oh and I'd suggest dumping my source, Qt applets are a no no in control panel, too slow Jul 08 12:09:07 in the cssu Jul 08 12:09:28 jonwil, that's my source, don't use it, Jul 08 12:09:34 again, too slow Jul 08 12:09:56 how can i list files which belongs to package? can i do that with dpkg? Jul 08 12:10:17 yup Jul 08 12:10:18 * khertan have strange problem, alarm have no sound, frequently desktop shortcut didn't launch app, some app crash due to dbus crash ... Jul 08 12:11:03 Yes I know. I tried to rewrite CSSU Qt plugin to Gtk and merge control from tvout widget, but tvout widget use only xv attributes and Qt plugin use only gconf key /system/tvout. So I do not know what GTK control plugin should use... Jul 08 12:12:04 vdv, dpkg -L package Jul 08 12:14:11 SpeedEvil, cloning the icd daemon would be nice but VERY hard :( Jul 08 12:14:23 which is why I havent done it :) Jul 08 12:14:32 I need ideas that are actually possible :P Jul 08 12:14:38 MohammadAG: only two files has 'tvout' string: /usr/bin/testserver and /sbin/mce Jul 08 12:15:51 MohammadAG, thanks Jul 08 12:16:54 do note that /etc/ohm/plugins.d/gconf.ini also references /system/tvout Jul 08 12:17:06 Although I think thats for audio and not video Jul 08 12:18:23 ohm is for audio AFAIK Jul 08 12:18:58 I think that the best will be if new rewritten tvout plugin set xv properties and gconf keys too. And after reboot should daemon (or hildon-desktop) read saved gconf keys and restore xv attrs Jul 08 12:19:20 jonwil: yeah - I know. It's painful. Jul 08 12:19:37 Although the documentation package for icd2 is way cool Jul 08 12:20:12 and has info that Nokia probably didnt strictly intend to be in there Jul 08 12:21:16 jonwil: /system/tvout is also in binary file /usr/share/policy/rules/rx51/policy.plc Jul 08 12:22:02 how can i make bash default shell? Jul 08 12:22:12 the reference to tvout in mce has nothing to do with the gconf key Jul 08 12:22:21 Erm, I wouldn't do that. Jul 08 12:22:24 nor is the reference in testserver Jul 08 12:22:42 vdv, I wouldn't do that Jul 08 12:22:48 vdv: chsh ? Jul 08 12:22:52 jonwil: and in /usr/share/policy/etc/rx51/ohm/plugins.d/gconf.ini Jul 08 12:23:00 each time I tried with zsh it made with the infinite dots Jul 08 12:24:06 in the end I have some magic .profile that execs to zsh Jul 08 12:25:52 actually copied osso-xterm.desktop to osso-xterm-myshell.desktop and changed the name and Exec to a script that lanuches zsh Jul 08 12:27:32 heya Jul 08 12:27:46 DocScrutinizer, how are you and your N950 getting along. Jul 08 12:27:48 ? Jul 08 12:27:52 vdv, /etc/passwd Jul 08 12:27:58 only edit lines for root and user Jul 08 12:28:08 everything else -> may break init scripts Jul 08 12:28:09 Hurrian, for user it works Jul 08 12:28:31 but inspite for root here /bin/bash specified Jul 08 12:28:44 i don't get bash when i do sudo gainroot Jul 08 12:28:45 Hurrian, for me even just for user it broke... Jul 08 12:28:45 do you use sudo gainroot/ root command? Jul 08 12:28:52 nano /sbin/gainroot Jul 08 12:28:54 or something Jul 08 12:28:56 vdv, make a toor user Jul 08 12:28:59 just copy the root line Jul 08 12:29:02 and rename to toor Jul 08 12:29:04 then su to toor Jul 08 12:29:14 lbt: so is it now okay or what is the situation ? https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=openal-soft&project=home%3Adjszapi I see a kernel panic if I click on the finished link. Also, this link does not still contain any packages: https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=MeeGo%3A1.2%3AHarmattan Jul 08 12:29:19 you can leave everything else the same just change the login name Jul 08 12:30:20 /etc/passwd:toor:x:0:0:toor:/root:/bin/zsh Jul 08 12:30:37 /etc/shadow:toor:PASSHASH:14805:0:99999:7::: Jul 08 12:30:47 that's how I have it setup on all my systems really Jul 08 12:31:03 so I always have a fallback root login in case something breaks zsh Jul 08 12:31:04 DocScrutinizer, i see that you uploaded a bunch more pics Jul 08 12:31:25 Hurrian, thanks a lot Jul 08 12:31:30 it works now Jul 08 12:32:02 ruskie, too complicate Jul 08 12:32:12 vdv, only if not used to it ;) Jul 08 12:33:53 jonwil: relevant reference to /system/tvout is in /usr/share/policy/ which is in packages policy-settings-rx51 and policy-application-detector Jul 08 12:33:53 vdv, but consider this I had to reflash my n900 a few times before I figured out that the issues was /bin/bash in passwd Jul 08 12:34:16 what these policy-* packages doing? Jul 08 12:35:36 ruskie, :) Jul 08 12:35:40 well I note that some parts of the policy stuff seems to be binary/compiled Prolog code Jul 08 12:37:25 Grrrr again another nokia spam email ... and not the one with the dhl tracking number Jul 08 12:37:39 lol Jul 08 12:37:49 policy-* packages are closed? Jul 08 12:38:51 MohammadAG: definitively not for tommorow :) 3h30 in finland ... so ... :) Jul 08 12:39:12 gotta love getting reminded how to do your job by people who have no clue how to do it Jul 08 12:39:17 \o/ Jul 08 12:39:38 if they know how to do it ... they will shut up Jul 08 12:39:39 :) Jul 08 12:43:34 khertan, so? :P Jul 08 12:44:10 fyi, http://meego.gitorious.org/maemo-multimedia contains the source code of the MeeGo versions of pretty much all this policy stuff Jul 08 12:46:40 I found this: https://meego.gitorious.org/maemo-multimedia/policy-settings-basic/blobs/master/basic/policy/video_route.pl Jul 08 12:47:00 so policy-settings monitor /system/tvout key Jul 08 12:47:12 MohammadAG: so after 3pm it could not be delivered on saturday :) Jul 08 12:47:30 khertan, patience is a virtue :) Jul 08 12:47:35 khertan, I don't want it on satuday Jul 08 12:47:35 * khertan is fighting against windows flasher which didn't want to flash his n900 Jul 08 12:47:43 I want it shipped Jul 08 12:47:45 Venemo_N900: :) Jul 08 12:47:49 MohammadAG: yep also Jul 08 12:48:27 MohammadAG: i immagine that it take time, because like preprod n900 they are flashing manually before delivery :) Jul 08 12:48:55 they could just tell us to flash it Jul 08 12:50:08 hum ... pretty strange ... uboot crashed Jul 08 12:50:50 anyone kind enough to make a QWebView that asks us to login to the DDP site, saves cookies, then hammers the order page to get order status? Jul 08 12:51:07 MohammadAG: should be easy to do Jul 08 12:51:07 :) Jul 08 12:51:34 anyone received a tracking number yet? Jul 08 12:51:39 nope Jul 08 12:51:50 sent mail? Jul 08 12:52:01 nope too Jul 08 12:52:28 khertan, yes, but I don't have the time :p Jul 08 12:52:42 same here Jul 08 12:52:59 need to flash my n900 Jul 08 12:54:10 does flasher works on windows seven 64bits ? Jul 08 12:55:12 khertan, easier to use ubuntu live cd Jul 08 12:55:26 disabling driver signing is a PITA Jul 08 12:55:40 Can someone tell me if hald is on the n900? Jul 08 12:55:52 ... yep but no ubuntu cd under hand Jul 08 12:56:10 @toggles : hald-addon-bme Jul 08 12:56:19 khertan, follow the steps then Jul 08 12:56:29 they work, just plug in directly to motherboard USB Jul 08 12:56:46 if you want, leave driver signing off Jul 08 12:56:47 Hurrian: thanks Jul 08 12:56:57 and patch windows to not show the "test mode" string Jul 08 12:59:11 jonwil: in maemo-multimedia is missing application/daemon app-detect Jul 08 12:59:23 not sure where that comes from Jul 08 12:59:30 or maybe its done differently in meego Jul 08 13:00:31 * gri received the dhl tracking number Jul 08 13:01:30 * jonwil cant understand why people are so excited over a damn phone... Jul 08 13:01:33 Does anyone use Handbrake video encoding tool with N900 preset1 listed in wiki: http://wiki.maemo.org/Video_encoding#Handbrake ? Jul 08 13:01:56 jonwil, new toy! Jul 08 13:02:06 jonwil, why are kids excited about a new toy? Jul 08 13:02:17 I've added second preset which gaves maximum quality for n900 playback even on 50-inch plasma display. Jul 08 13:02:19 jonwil, because it's shiny, and "devs-only" Jul 08 13:02:24 :) Jul 08 13:02:36 gri, just now? Jul 08 13:03:36 MohammadAG: got the automatic sent mail 3h ago, the tracking number 5 mins ago Jul 08 13:03:58 gri, automatic sent email? Jul 08 13:04:22 huM ... flashing interrupted Jul 08 13:04:23 oups Jul 08 13:04:31 divan, DVD quality playback is acceptable on 1080p upscale Jul 08 13:04:45 "your order has been sent" from no.reply@n... Jul 08 13:05:03 nothing Jul 08 13:05:14 * Venemo_N900 envies gri Jul 08 13:05:31 oh Jul 08 13:05:42 bummer, didn't get that :/ Jul 08 13:05:48 Hurrian, I was disappointed with quality of videos like 720x304 or so. It's ok on 22-inch, but looks terrible on 50-inch. Now, with 854x480 videos and smooth playback it looks great from 2-3 meters. Jul 08 13:05:58 frals, got work tomorrow? :P Jul 08 13:06:23 and now, 480i looks like absolute sh*te on 1080p upscale Jul 08 13:06:54 flashing again ... Jul 08 13:07:21 khertan, flashing is where the hooks on the USB come in handy Jul 08 13:07:48 Hurrian: i ve finnaly use a xp machine Jul 08 13:07:57 but flash was interrupted the first time Jul 08 13:08:00 without reason Jul 08 13:08:09 dont touch the USB cable ;) Jul 08 13:08:17 without touching the cable Jul 08 13:08:35 ok second flash works ... but n900 didn't start Jul 08 13:08:37 roh Jul 08 13:10:55 where are email accounts on n900 stored? seems not under /home/user, because reflashing wiped it out Jul 08 13:11:13 [DarkGUNMAN]: thanks for the advice! havent tried opera on maemo, that will be interesting! Jul 08 13:11:14 vdv: gconf Jul 08 13:11:23 vdv, reflashing wipes out /home afaik Jul 08 13:11:56 Jaffa, gconf? Jul 08 13:12:16 /home is on the root fs, so reflashing wipes it -- it's only /home/user/MyDocs that's preserved (unless you reflash eMMC) Jul 08 13:12:47 mgedmin, /home/user is untouched here Jul 08 13:12:49 vdv: /var/lib/gconf Jul 08 13:13:03 MohammadAG: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/alertbox/ Jul 08 13:13:04 :) Jul 08 13:13:14 maybe /home, but not /home/user Jul 08 13:13:33 I also think I remember my settings/contacts/messages survived a reflash Jul 08 13:14:11 when I reflashed recently, my contacts/messages/settings survived for the most part Jul 08 13:14:19 that was a reflash of a "combined fiasco" image Jul 08 13:14:24 and not a EMMC flash Jul 08 13:15:39 Jaffa, thanks Jul 08 13:16:58 MohammadAG: finns dont work saturday/sunday normally no ;) Jul 08 13:17:44 frals, when does a workday end then? :P Jul 08 13:17:53 17 i guess Jul 08 13:18:07 40 hour week? Jul 08 13:18:13 depends on the company Jul 08 13:18:39 frals, Nokia :p Jul 08 13:18:42 i work 10-18.. approx 7h 15-30m days Jul 08 13:18:52 * khertan discover sparkleshare ... looks amazing ... until i see it s mono based Jul 08 13:18:53 :( Jul 08 13:18:53 MohammadAG: depends when the person got in in the morning Jul 08 13:18:59 MohammadAG: ;P Jul 08 13:19:10 MohammadAG: and how much important stuff there is to do Jul 08 13:19:38 but, mv jaska .jp Jul 08 13:19:48 MohammadAG: got tracking? Jul 08 13:19:54 nope Jul 08 13:20:36 DocScrutinizer, no, that's why I'm asking frals when they stop shipping :P Jul 08 13:21:16 MohammadAG: I ordered yesterday and no confirmation yet. So :) Jul 08 13:21:19 is frals part of the team that ships N950? Jul 08 13:21:31 Venemo_N900: no Jul 08 13:21:33 X-Fade, I thought you already had one Jul 08 13:21:35 took ~4 h for me from order till shipping Jul 08 13:21:47 I hate you DocScrutinizer Jul 08 13:21:48 Venemo_N900: Not a developer device. Jul 08 13:21:48 :P Jul 08 13:21:50 whos actually doing the shipping stuff? Jul 08 13:21:56 DocScrutinizer, everyone here already envies you :) Jul 08 13:22:01 Venemo_N900, frals only ships things via MMS Jul 08 13:22:04 X-Fade, what device was it then? Jul 08 13:22:21 frals: my mail came from polla esguerra Jul 08 13:22:33 Venemo_N900: N950, but proto. Jul 08 13:22:51 X-Fade, are the dev devices not protos too? Jul 08 13:22:55 no Jul 08 13:22:59 matter messaging system Jul 08 13:23:04 they have double the RAM and 1/4 the storage Jul 08 13:23:09 Venemo_N900: No, they are CE certified devices. Jul 08 13:23:13 hah. Jul 08 13:23:35 so why did the Nokia agreement say that I must accept that they are prototypes? Jul 08 13:23:48 @all: I'm not happy about the fact it went so smooth for me, when I see this isn't the usual case. I would've preferred to wait until mid of next week Jul 08 13:23:56 Venemo_N900: they are :) Jul 08 13:24:04 Venemo_N900: Until things are released, they are. Jul 08 13:24:09 X-Fade, ahh. Jul 08 13:24:19 Venemo_N900: Software isn't final, so :) Jul 08 13:24:29 X-Fade, I hope they will also get the final sw along with N9 Jul 08 13:24:37 * jonwil is bored :( Jul 08 13:24:54 Venemo_N900: Yep. Jul 08 13:25:34 X-Fade, in fact, how different are N9 and N950 hw? do they use the same board? Jul 08 13:26:01 Venemo_N900: They are the same and completely different at the same time :) Jul 08 13:26:01 X-Fade: proto means the butt-ugly plastic one? Jul 08 13:27:01 DocScrutinizer, I was just kidding, you know that :P Jul 08 13:27:27 Venemo_N900: all differences that matters are on swipe.nokia.com / whatever the devkit url was ;) Jul 08 13:27:37 DocScrutinizer, it was aluminum, just white/silver afaik Jul 08 13:27:56 frals, yep, but it didn't say whether they both use the same OMAP3xxx Jul 08 13:27:59 I'm not, I'm really not happy as this creates envy and tension in the group Jul 08 13:28:56 DocScrutinizer, hey, I was just kidding when I said that. Jul 08 13:29:07 DocScrutinizer, in fact, I'm happy for you :) Jul 08 13:30:04 I guess they picked me to punish me for my aegis-bashing ;-) Now I have to report for all the ones that are still waiting Jul 08 13:30:37 btw, just in case you missed it: devel-su works Jul 08 13:31:11 DocScrutinizer, what about devel-sh or develsh? Jul 08 13:31:15 devel-su is the new sudo gainroot Jul 08 13:31:25 DocScrutinizer, i've ordered day before yesterday, and order still in 'New Order' status. Jul 08 13:32:13 maybe they sort orders by country, alphabet, whatever ... Jul 08 13:32:25 patience is a virtue :) Jul 08 13:32:25 DocScrutinizer: amazing it works, guess someone did something right at last :) Jul 08 13:32:43 * frals has been doing ssh root@localhost for a looooong time ;( Jul 08 13:32:48 I guess they roughly operate a LIFO of Quim's orders Jul 08 13:33:02 mhm Jul 08 13:34:34 Anyone get a shipping notice today? Jul 08 13:34:51 fiferboy: just logging in to look now :) Jul 08 13:35:13 fiferboy: trackin number 1h ago Jul 08 13:35:34 nope Jul 08 13:35:36 nothing yet Jul 08 13:35:41 page still says "New Order" Jul 08 13:35:53 so i guess mine may not get out before the weekend? :( Jul 08 13:37:28 gri: That's good new Jul 08 13:37:32 Still "New Order" here too Jul 08 13:37:35 if they need 10 mins per device, it takes a whole week for one person to send them :) Jul 08 13:37:54 jonwil: I stopped app-detect (policy-application-detector) but setting original tvout control panel still working... Jul 08 13:37:56 rofl Jul 08 13:38:18 DocScrutinizer: i didn't follow the aegis discussion is there some documentation about it ? i know it s a protection system but know nothing about it Jul 08 13:38:39 btw, whatever you do, do NOT try to stop/start/restart mce, the system will go apeshit if you do :) Jul 08 13:38:46 Speaking from personal experience here btw Jul 08 13:39:08 The only way to restart mce (e.g. if you installed new mce plugin or whatever) is to reboot phone Jul 08 13:39:09 gri: 10 is if it didn't request to be flashed before :) Jul 08 13:39:15 khertan: Jul 08 13:39:17 ~aegis Jul 08 13:39:18 i guess aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide, or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism Jul 08 13:39:39 DocScrutinizer thx Jul 08 13:41:09 haha Jul 08 13:41:14 devel-su ftw! Jul 08 13:41:17 jonwil: had no such problems Jul 08 13:41:39 well I just know things went wierd when I was messing with it Jul 08 13:41:40 led pattern editor app is restarting mce all the time Jul 08 13:42:05 that might just be because I was messing with things that caused the problem Jul 08 13:42:05 infobot: if you control what is thread or not , then it's good Jul 08 13:42:06 RzR950: I think you lost me on that one Jul 08 13:42:19 I do >> stop mce; sleep 1; start mce << and that has no real bad side effects Jul 08 13:42:35 i.e. my broken libvibrator.so Jul 08 13:42:44 I think all my wierdness came from either my libvibrator.so Jul 08 13:42:47 :nod: Jul 08 13:42:57 or my attempts to get mce to spit out all its log info Jul 08 13:43:12 somehow trying to get it to accept --verbose Jul 08 13:43:36 hehe Jul 08 13:43:52 is on my list of things to tackle yet Jul 08 13:46:23 * alterego orders N950 Jul 08 13:46:26 woo??? Jul 08 13:46:28 !!! Jul 08 13:46:30 even Jul 08 13:46:56 alterego: They let you in #n950club? Jul 08 13:46:57 they still work? Jul 08 13:47:20 :) Jul 08 13:47:25 they have now :D Jul 08 13:47:35 infobot: a threat not thread :) vlc http://rzr.online.fr//./docs/contribs/files/TrustedComputing_LAFKON.m3u Jul 08 13:48:04 RzR950: You realise that you are talking to a *bot* right? Jul 08 13:49:15 this makes me believe that i am also a bot :) Jul 08 13:49:29 khertan: my fav quote: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-06-30.log.html#t2011-06-30T17:19:40 Jul 08 13:50:42 RzR950: welcome, colleague! Jul 08 13:51:14 BTW, People who deny the existence of robots may be robots themselves Jul 08 13:51:33 HEAR HEAR Jul 08 13:52:19 infobot: shhhh! Jul 08 13:52:20 well, shhhh is SHUT UP! Jul 08 13:54:42 DocScrutinizer :) Jul 08 13:55:48 wtf? I received "a N950 is waiting for you" again, can I have two? :D Jul 08 13:56:09 gri: Apparently it will process another order for you Jul 08 13:56:38 gri: lol Jul 08 13:57:06 gri, you're not the only one Jul 08 13:57:14 but I didn't get any email :/ Jul 08 13:57:47 damn, my gf would also want an n950 (but in pink..) Jul 08 13:57:56 * mgedmin got an email saying that I couldn't be found in the system or something... Jul 08 13:59:40 DocScrutinizer : After installing the package, do NOT modify the installed files if they request a token. Security FW will discover an unexpected change in the file and lock the device (ops! reflash). Imported files and other resources can be modified. Jul 08 13:59:50 DocScrutinizer: http://dz015.wordpress.com/2011/07/05/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-or-python-security-fw-and-harmattan/ Jul 08 14:00:09 hopefully i read it before ... else i ll probably need to reflash :) Jul 08 14:00:44 khertan: nice, isn't it? :-S Jul 08 14:01:14 wait... Jul 08 14:01:18 there should be a "Your order has been received" ? Jul 08 14:01:36 MohammadAG: for me there was Jul 08 14:01:50 jonwil: Now I know who monitor change xv attr. It is ohmd daemon and propably this plugin: https://meego.gitorious.org/maemo-multimedia/ohm-plugins-misc/trees/master/plugins/videoep-fremantle Jul 08 14:02:10 :S Jul 08 14:02:13 when I stopeed ohmd tvout control plugin not working... Jul 08 14:02:44 uh Jul 08 14:02:53 "lock the device (ops! reflash" Jul 08 14:03:00 never ever seen that happen Jul 08 14:03:08 uhm, I can really order a second one on FN ... that can't be right Jul 08 14:03:10 I gather *Nokia* picked me for a testcase for DDP Jul 08 14:03:35 DocScrutinizer, I didn't get any email Jul 08 14:03:47 which makes me wonder if they even got my order Jul 08 14:04:22 then obviously they decided to "streamline" the process according to what they found with my shipment. So now you get multiple orders while I couldn't even see me one order's status Jul 08 14:04:25 OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE Jul 08 14:04:33 my email is set to @ovi.com Jul 08 14:04:34 looks like ohm-plugins-misc is closed source in Fremantle Jul 08 14:04:37 Hahah Jul 08 14:04:43 MohammadAG: idjit :P Jul 08 14:05:46 HAHAHAHA @ovi.com - had a WTF!? experience with that yahoo crap last night Jul 08 14:06:25 but gitorious meego link has -fremantle suffix. It could be fremantle version? Jul 08 14:06:26 14990 unread emails Jul 08 14:06:38 I use it for facebook notiications Jul 08 14:06:47 yeah it could be related to Fremantle Jul 08 14:06:47 it's like /dev/null to me Jul 08 14:06:56 can't get meegoHarm maps running, asking for a "Nokia account" which turns out to manifest in a mailaddr@ovi.com Jul 08 14:07:53 DocScrutinizer: hmm? i also cant get into nokia accounts Jul 08 14:07:55 and mymailaddr@ovi.com makes yahoo go mad in a endless loop asking me to "confirm password" Jul 08 14:08:31 on maps the probably related effect is "service momentarilly unavailable" Jul 08 14:08:53 meh, I have both emails lost in there Jul 08 14:08:56 DocScrutinizer: nokia account just gives me "service currently unavailable" Jul 08 14:09:49 maps comes up with a "SSO Signin" screen, then switches to "Nokia account" asking for username or mailaddr and PW Jul 08 14:10:37 yep Jul 08 14:10:40 exactly Jul 08 14:10:42 thats where i get stuck Jul 08 14:10:55 http://www.developer.nokia.com/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=234 Jul 08 14:10:57 04Bug 234: (some) applets should be resizeable Jul 08 14:12:18 DocScrutinizer: i think i ll got some surprize with aegis when an python module will be updated independently by an other program Jul 08 14:12:18 :) Jul 08 14:12:54 khertan: if the module belongs to your package dpkg will have a problem before that i guess? ;) Jul 08 14:13:44 bah, still bored :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( Jul 08 14:14:11 frals: i mean a apps depending on python-http2 for example Jul 08 14:14:16 i use it in my apps Jul 08 14:14:40 khertan: as long as the module is updated by the correct package with the aegis file it shouldnt matter Jul 08 14:14:41 DocScrutinizer, SSO is Nokia account Jul 08 14:14:42 but an other app update it to a new version as a dependancy, what will happen Jul 08 14:14:44 the N8 does the same Jul 08 14:14:57 Nokia account is Oiv account Jul 08 14:15:01 khertan: the new version has updated aegis file and the new hash is there now Jul 08 14:15:28 frals: oh ... ok thx for the info Jul 08 14:15:55 MohammadAG: for mail, yes Jul 08 14:16:16 khertan: this is based on my understanding, i havent tried it for python modules but it should same as for any other package/library where it works that way Jul 08 14:16:23 (more or less, it actually works either way) ;) Jul 08 14:16:37 frals: what i fear is that python isn't statically linked :) Jul 08 14:17:31 * khertan is unhappy .... the hogfather present will not be for tomorrow ... not yet sent. Jul 08 14:17:58 It's incredibly annoying as maps is the only "test-app" for GPS *and* compass Jul 08 14:18:15 why would you need to sign on to something for maps? Jul 08 14:18:42 and they should make damn sure a devel-dev proto should come with a preinstalled devel account working Jul 08 14:20:49 Sc0rpious: MohammadAG wrote, that you are going to review modest cssu patches Jul 08 14:21:25 here are links: https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/modest/merge_requests/10 https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/tinymail/merge_requests/2 Jul 08 14:22:06 i believe an update for the n950 is imminent Jul 08 14:22:51 :) Jul 08 14:22:53 This sentence: "Mandatory arguments to long options are mandatory for short options too." almost made by brain melt. Jul 08 14:23:14 ieatlint: because flasher is now present on tablet-dev ? Jul 08 14:24:56 nah, i'm just omnicient Jul 08 14:26:01 ieatlint: hum could u give me the delivery date of my loaned n950 please ? and when apocalypse will happen ? Jul 08 14:26:17 yes Jul 08 14:26:27 the delivery date is next thursday between 2 and 6 pm Jul 08 14:26:41 and the apocalypse is october 21st this year Jul 08 14:26:52 :) Jul 08 14:27:11 somebody got a working dummy "Nokia account" for me? to test the N950 maps app? Jul 08 14:27:13 and 10.2011.26-4 is the new version Jul 08 14:28:26 I'll take bets on it, that it is not :) Jul 08 14:29:14 ieatlint: 21/10/11 is a prediction of Harold Camping, the guy which predict the apocalypse will occur at 6pm at each timezone ? Jul 08 14:30:32 yeah, prove him wrong Jul 08 14:31:06 khertan: a sudden rise in radiant power of the sun *could* create an apocalypse in sync with local timezones Jul 08 14:31:22 more like 6AM though Jul 08 14:32:43 DocScrutinizer: did you try registering a new acct on the phone? that didnt work for me either Jul 08 14:32:51 DocScrutinizer ... hum it s an idea Jul 08 14:33:06 and only for the night hemisphere of the globe, the day hemisphere obviously was in sync with the increase of radiation, not in sync with sunrise Jul 08 14:33:31 ieatlint: i ve the evidence, but it s under nda for 4 months Jul 08 14:33:41 ieatlint: i ll show it to you after Jul 08 14:33:46 macmaN: I did a thousand times Jul 08 14:34:03 then regisered new account ad web ovi.com Jul 08 14:34:10 then used an old account Jul 08 14:34:14 ALL failed Jul 08 14:34:20 ok Jul 08 14:34:37 DocScrutinizer or some pulsar emission Jul 08 14:34:37 :) Jul 08 14:34:43 hehe Jul 08 14:34:57 hard gammaray Jul 08 14:34:57 Have you noticed this thread yet? http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3747 Jul 08 14:35:11 probably you have, but still Jul 08 14:35:36 well yeah thats me Jul 08 14:35:40 i've had my old ovi account work on it Jul 08 14:35:43 my thread i.e. Jul 08 14:36:15 i dont know who the other participant there is, besides qgil of course Jul 08 14:37:03 yeah, no idea who that aslani guy is Jul 08 14:37:12 :) Jul 08 14:38:14 ahhhahahha Jul 08 14:38:19 my bad! :> Jul 08 14:40:57 Still no shipping info. Jul 08 14:42:15 same here Jul 08 14:42:30 StatusNew Order Jul 08 14:43:13 same here :( Jul 08 14:43:35 GAN900: Me neither Jul 08 14:43:59 Guess it must be a 3-day-weekend Jul 08 14:45:02 Three new people have received theirs (according to the wiki) Jul 08 14:45:03 i got a shipping notice today Jul 08 14:45:33 ieatlint: and what time did you order yours yesterday? Jul 08 14:45:43 got an email from nokia telling me they shipped it at 4am GMT-7, and then one from dhl at 5:40am Jul 08 14:46:14 i ordered mine july 6 at 5:30am GMT-7 Jul 08 14:46:25 so 48h to ship Jul 08 14:46:50 shipping from helsinki Jul 08 14:48:03 ieatlint: damn you lucky arse :P Jul 08 14:50:01 i had to bribe a couple nokia peoples Jul 08 14:50:12 really? :P Jul 08 14:50:36 yeah, just offer them some vodka and rotting fish Jul 08 14:50:40 pffff Jul 08 14:50:41 hah Jul 08 14:50:58 I am going to shoot myself anytime now Jul 08 14:51:33 7 juillet 2011 11:26 so will be for monday : Jul 08 14:51:34 :) Jul 08 14:51:36 when did you order yours? Jul 08 14:52:00 yesterday Jul 08 14:52:19 7.7.2011 18:02 .fi time Jul 08 14:52:31 roughly 24 hours ago Jul 08 14:52:36 well, seeing as it's nearly 6pm in helsinki Jul 08 14:52:42 you're probably screwed Jul 08 14:52:45 7.7.2011 12:26 fi time :) Jul 08 14:52:46 yeah Jul 08 14:53:08 not probably ... surely :) Jul 08 14:53:12 ouch, 6h makes the difference Jul 08 14:53:16 ieatlint: but I am still assuming its possible, they shipped it, but haven't updated it on the sight? Jul 08 14:53:29 site* Jul 08 14:53:35 nah, i got an email Jul 08 14:53:38 ieatlint: i didn't get mine too Jul 08 14:53:55 a full 90min+ before dhl sent me an email telling me they got a shipment notice Jul 08 14:53:59 ieatlint: what time was yours done exactly? Jul 08 14:54:10 and then it took a couple more hours for the tracking number to be valid in their system Jul 08 14:54:11 ieatlint: the order Jul 08 14:54:34 its on the DDP -> orders page Jul 08 14:54:36 uh, i ordered at 1530 GMT+2 july 6/wednesday Jul 08 14:54:59 nokia tells me they processed it today at 1400 GMT+2 Jul 08 14:55:46 yeah ... so it s dead for us hiemanshu :) 48 hours ... :) Jul 08 14:55:58 hiemanshu: will be packaged monday :) Jul 08 14:56:00 khertan: tomorrow is a day off, so monday only :( :( :( Jul 08 14:56:16 dhl also just says "shipment info received" Jul 08 14:56:38 yeah Jul 08 14:56:57 so i just hope it'll be for next friday ... because i could be not at home ... Jul 08 14:57:26 well, I am going to be home, but I want it before the 15th, so I can show it off at the Qt AFK meetup Jul 08 14:58:54 so is there any common sense already whether Harmattan playground for discussion etc pp is $meego or $maemo domain now? Jul 08 14:59:28 DocScrutinizer: #maemo-harmattan? Jul 08 14:59:32 for complaining it s $meego, for whining it $maemo, and for the rest ... don't know Jul 08 14:59:33 AIUI parts of $meego stictly say Harmattan!=meego Jul 08 14:59:52 or just #harmattan Jul 08 15:00:11 hiemanshu: I'm not talking about IRC #chan Jul 08 15:00:27 but about e.g. adding random crap to a wiki Jul 08 15:00:34 DocScrutinizer: well from quim posting in f.m.o and everything else there, its m.o Jul 08 15:00:38 he's talking about Twitter hash tagsª Jul 08 15:00:41 meego* Jul 08 15:00:42 :P Jul 08 15:01:11 khertan: I rewrote most of my UI in QML today, going to finish up the rest of the UI now :D Jul 08 15:01:30 khertan: its not that bad :P Jul 08 15:01:50 wiki.meego.com doesn't seem the exactly matching location for Harmattan docs to me Jul 08 15:02:13 DocScrutinizer: well everything seems to be under meego really Jul 08 15:02:23 hmm, ok Jul 08 15:02:27 DocScrutinizer: the devices page, the place quim asked up to make our User pages Jul 08 15:02:42 fair enough Jul 08 15:03:43 hiemanshu: http://twitpic.com/5mvljv <<< test of a KhtEditor ui :) Jul 08 15:03:54 we probably should establish a meme to tag each page related to Harmattan with a BOLD "[harmattan]" notice, even in URL Jul 08 15:04:21 khertan: I have seen it, you still using python for the backend right? Jul 08 15:04:37 right Jul 08 15:04:44 so you have a chance to tell apart harm pages from CE pages Jul 08 15:05:21 OMFG what a mess Jul 08 15:06:13 khertan: ah, should look at your code sometime :P Jul 08 15:06:27 DocScrutinizer: welcome to the real world :D Jul 08 15:06:31 available in qml branch in http://gitorious.org/khteditor Jul 08 15:06:58 khertan: yes, I read that somewhere, I will look at it later :) Jul 08 15:07:26 Jaffa: ^^^ (harm vs CE namespace on web [here wiki/forum/et-al]) any thoughts? Jul 08 15:07:35 hey hiemanshu, what's up? Jul 08 15:07:48 Venemo_N900: some good news and bad news today :( Jul 08 15:07:57 hiemanshu, tell me Jul 08 15:08:06 javispedro: o/ Jul 08 15:08:16 Venemo_N900: bad news == no shipping :(, good news == India will host a FUDCon finally :) Jul 08 15:08:26 javispedro: \o Jul 08 15:08:36 got shipped notice an hour ago Jul 08 15:08:41 hiemanshu :) Jul 08 15:08:42 javispedro: damn you Jul 08 15:08:42 \o/ Jul 08 15:08:47 javispedro: I hate you Jul 08 15:08:55 javispedro, congrats Jul 08 15:08:57 so "my batch" is probably being shipped as we speak Jul 08 15:08:58 DocScrutinizer: you desrve to die! Jul 08 15:09:10 hiemanshu, don't hate on him, you'll get one as well! Jul 08 15:09:11 javispedro: they are still working? Jul 08 15:09:21 Venemo_N900: I hate him till I get mine :P Jul 08 15:09:29 hiemanshu :P Jul 08 15:09:41 hiemanshu: according to dhl, they got "info" but are waiting fotr the package, so I say yes Jul 08 15:09:46 (being optimistic) Jul 08 15:09:53 lol Jul 08 15:10:14 javispedro: ah, well I didn't even get DHL info or anything so D: Jul 08 15:10:38 it's still funny to me, everyone freaking out and being so anxious :P we're privileged to be included in this program, they're working hard, and I'll get a device when I get one :) Jul 08 15:10:39 javispedro: so is there any common sense already whether Harmattan playground for discussion etc pp is $meego or $maemo domain now? we probably should establish a meme to tag each page related to Harmattan with a BOLD "[harmattan]" notice, even in URL -- so you have a chance to tell apart harm pages from CE pages Jul 08 15:10:39 hiemanshu, I hate being hated, so please don't hate me if I happen to receive mine earlier than you :P Jul 08 15:10:51 Venemo_N900: naah, then you'll just be dead to me :P Jul 08 15:10:58 Venemo_N900: did yours ship btw? Jul 08 15:11:12 hiemanshu, nope, I guesstimate next week Jul 08 15:11:16 but no rush Jul 08 15:11:21 ah, yeah, same here Jul 08 15:11:21 docscrutinizer: we can and should share qml stuff, but unshare the rest. Jul 08 15:11:38 I still have some crapwork to do before I can start making my harmattan promises Jul 08 15:11:51 Venemo_N900: I am just finishing up the UI here :) Jul 08 15:11:57 :P Jul 08 15:12:03 good, who's going to set up the according "best practice" wikipage on wiki.meego.org? Jul 08 15:12:51 javispedro: seems a job for "council" or whatever it's called on meego side of the world Jul 08 15:13:13 ha! Jul 08 15:13:21 DocScrutinizer: nah, JFDI Jul 08 15:13:47 javispedro: indiscriminate mixing of info bits related to harm with those related to CE may easily render the whole wiki useless Jul 08 15:14:25 http://twitpic.com/5n1843 Jul 08 15:14:41 sadly, I do not understand why meego.com is used for harmattan stuff. at all. Jul 08 15:14:54 we noticed a similar though way milder effect on mixing N900-M5 bits with diablo, on wiki.maemo.org Jul 08 15:15:00 javispedro: to boost meego Jul 08 15:15:07 cause if I ask a qml or qt question, the best place would be qt .nokia Jul 08 15:15:18 alterego: for now it has potential to *kill* meego Jul 08 15:15:26 alterego, nice pic Jul 08 15:15:31 DocScrutinizer: neah, it's just the Ux :P Jul 08 15:15:40 hahaha Jul 08 15:15:44 Venemo_N900: taken with an N8 and edited on an N8 Jul 08 15:15:50 alterego :P Jul 08 15:16:15 :) Jul 08 15:16:42 DocScrutinizer, it is marketed as meego because of stupid marketing horseshit Jul 08 15:16:54 alterego: LOL Jul 08 15:17:11 Venemo_N900: I am not interested in rationale *why* - I wonder how to *cope with it* Jul 08 15:18:10 Venemo_N900: wiki.meego.org/how_install_apps --- WTF are they talking about CE or about harm here?!?! Jul 08 15:18:22 DocScrutinizer: in theory everything on the application layer should be fluffy same as regular meego 1.2 Jul 08 15:18:35 dm8tbr: stop dreaming Jul 08 15:18:39 DocScrutinizer: you mean com Jul 08 15:18:42 not .org Jul 08 15:18:45 DocScrutinizer: I don't. I'm teasing Jul 08 15:18:45 yup Jul 08 15:19:08 DocScrutinizer: and no such page exists :P Jul 08 15:19:19 hiemanshu: MEH! Jul 08 15:19:32 LOL Jul 08 15:19:55 DocScrutinizer: create a new namespace? Harmattan:HowToInstallApps makes sense Jul 08 15:19:58 hiemanshu: you're XXX - should I wait until it exists to start whining? Jul 08 15:19:59 in theory, in theory.... Jul 08 15:20:04 * javispedro dances Jul 08 15:20:48 DocScrutinizer: a new namespace would make a lot of sense really Jul 08 15:20:52 hiemanshu: please read backscroll, creating a "new namespace" is exactly what I suggested Jul 08 15:21:09 DocScrutinizer: ugh, sorry, missed taht part Jul 08 15:21:30 that* Jul 08 15:21:46 hiemanshu: we probably should establish a meme to tag each page related to Harmattan with a BOLD "[harmattan]" notice, even in URL -- so you have a chance to tell apart harm pages from CE pages Jul 08 15:21:59 DocScrutinizer: right Jul 08 15:22:03 DocScrutinizer, hmm Jul 08 15:22:44 * javispedro suggests posting in f.m.c about this before doing anything Jul 08 15:22:46 docscrutinizer: we can and should share qml stuff, but unshare the rest. Jul 08 15:22:47 DocScrutinizer, all harmattan-related wikipage should go under wiki.meego.com/harmattan/... Jul 08 15:23:01 in case the powers that be have another idea(s).. Jul 08 15:23:51 so again: who's picking up on that? In my book that's a genuine duty for council and/or the counterpart in meego domain Jul 08 15:24:28 time for 12648430 ☕ Jul 08 15:26:06 along with the dhl tracking id I got an invitation for a wp7 developer webcast Jul 08 15:26:30 (in spanish, so I doubt you're going to get it) Jul 08 15:27:01 ah.. elop... Jul 08 15:29:06 DocScrutinizer: (re harmattan namespace) - whereas somethings are going to deal with both (e.g. http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_OBS) Jul 08 15:31:53 Jaffa: yes, and it's damn hard for the occasional reader of e.g wiki.meego.com to clearly find out if the info of the particular page applies to CE, harm, QML(==both), or whatever Jul 08 15:33:03 DocScrutinizer: Yeah, so some templates which include at the top a "applies to ..., ..., ..."? Jul 08 15:33:51 Jaffa: we'd need somebody with real insight about the commons and the things that differ between meegoCE and meegoHarmattan to write up that page "what's different?" and make clear about a best practice to tag your new wikipages accordingly Jul 08 15:34:07 Jaffa: yup, would be a start Jul 08 15:34:29 DocScrutinizer, Jaffa ; great ideas! Jul 08 15:34:30 n900 here. I mounted my n900 in linux and want to put music on it. Which directory should I copy the files to? Jul 08 15:34:40 a bit like bugzilla: select the "subsystems" Jul 08 15:34:50 Nils^, I have a folder called "MyMusic" Jul 08 15:34:54 Nils^: create a Music dir, and put it there, should work Jul 08 15:34:56 Nils^, name doesn't matter.. Jul 08 15:34:59 I don't have it Jul 08 15:35:07 i created "music" but it was not found by the media player Jul 08 15:35:25 ok, again Jul 08 15:35:34 hey Jul 08 15:36:16 well.. is your music folder under MyDocs right? Jul 08 15:36:41 it is in the same folder where .sounds, .videos and .documents is Jul 08 15:36:48 Jaffa: I'd do that but I clearly have too little insight into the delicate differences and esp into what's supposed to be identiacal between CE and harm Jul 08 15:36:49 i have got a new sim card, because it was defect, now i want to copy all contacts vom the adress book on the new sim - as backup for the important contacts. I know that not all information will be saved on the sim card, but name and number is enough. Any ideas how i can do it, without a sync with a pc or a online network? Jul 08 15:37:01 (and yes, I umounted and unplugged the usb cable before trying to find the music via media player) Jul 08 15:37:20 DocScrutinizer: cpscotti: One for GeneralAntilles' "Clearing the path" thread? Jul 08 15:37:40 linky? Jul 08 15:37:44 what the... is there a latency after umounting and unplugging? I just tried again aruond 60 seconds after unplugging. now its there Jul 08 15:37:59 DocScrutinizer: Front page of http://www.mwkn.net/ :-) Jul 08 15:38:06 aah Jul 08 15:38:09 DocScrutinizer: (I went there cos I knew we'd covered it :-)) Jul 08 15:39:25 Jaffa, you mean this: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3678 Jul 08 15:39:27 ? Jul 08 15:39:40 cpscotti: Yes Jul 08 15:39:46 cpscotti: http://www.mwkn.net/2011/27/front.html#front-1 Jul 08 15:39:47 Nils^, well.. normally it works cool.. Jul 08 15:40:26 Sniff : StatusNew Order ... Jul 08 15:40:40 hmm Jul 08 15:40:55 khertan, stop checking it won't ship till Monday :p Jul 08 15:41:31 MohammadAG: i didn't check manually it s done automatically by a firefox plugin :) Jul 08 15:41:36 * Jaffa 's changed to "Sent to customer" at 1900 Helsinki time. Jul 08 15:41:46 if Harmattan is frozen at MeeGo 1.2, doesn't that break compatibility with 1.3? Jul 08 15:41:52 Jaffa: your was special Jul 08 15:41:59 khertan: So I'm told Jul 08 15:42:02 :) Jul 08 15:42:03 Jaffa, cool! Jul 08 15:42:19 so ... time to go back home Jul 08 15:42:27 have good week end all Jul 08 15:42:30 khertan: That plugin is cool Jul 08 15:42:34 khertan: Au revoir Jul 08 15:44:01 Jaffa: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/alertbox/ Jul 08 15:44:02 bye Jul 08 15:44:02 Jaffa, oh really? cool Jul 08 15:44:26 hah Jul 08 15:44:32 my current status is that Jul 08 15:44:39 the order has disappeared from ForumNokia Jul 08 15:44:44 but I got sent a DHL tracking id Jul 08 15:44:51 where it says they have info only, no device in DHL's hands yet. Jul 08 15:45:09 javispedro, what time was it sent? Jul 08 15:45:11 javispedro: same here... dhl updated to say they have it as of ~45min ago Jul 08 15:45:56 MohammadAG, 14:30 GMT + 2 Jul 08 15:46:06 well, "sent" Jul 08 15:46:16 that's when I got the DHL tracking id mail. Jul 08 15:46:31 so that's 16:30 HEL time? Jul 08 15:47:14 according to this database, HEL is GMT+3 Jul 08 15:47:17 i got my tracking id initially at 15:40 GMT+2 Jul 08 15:47:25 so, 15:30 HEL time. Jul 08 15:47:29 ergh, fucking daylight savings time Jul 08 15:47:59 my time is correct relative to daylight savings -- 15:40 helsinki time Jul 08 15:48:56 javispedro, when did you place your order? Jul 08 15:48:56 javispedro: Ah no - you're right. Mine changed to "Sent to customer" mid-afternoon, but then it was sat in Nokia's goods' outwards department until DHL picked it up - at 1900 Helsinki time Jul 08 15:49:00 and your DHL page says something other than "shipment information received", ieatlint? Jul 08 15:49:18 Jaffa, ah, good clarification :) Jul 08 15:49:49 7.7.2011 12:04 here Jul 08 15:49:49 "Shipment picked up" Jul 08 15:49:57 "HELSINKI - FINLAND 14:40" Jul 08 15:50:44 GeneralAntilles, http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-07-07.log.html#t2011-07-07T12:20:35 Jul 08 15:50:51 2011-07-07T12:20 Jul 08 15:50:54 whatever that means ;) Jul 08 15:51:02 Bleh Jul 08 15:51:11 what's the timezone of irc logs? ;) Jul 08 15:52:11 ISO time Jul 08 15:52:32 aparently not. Jul 08 15:52:37 unless HEL time is now also ISO time ;) Jul 08 15:52:54 I wonder what order they process these things in. Jul 08 15:53:07 quick math: logs stop at 18:44, current GMT+2 time is 17:48, so logs are GMT+3 Jul 08 15:53:12 MohammadAG: No, it's not. Jul 08 15:53:18 Yeah, what javispedro said. Jul 08 15:53:20 N950s? food processors of course Jul 08 15:53:23 Presumably it's mgedmin's TZ Jul 08 15:53:41 PS. "ISO time" means nothing. "UTC" does :-) Jul 08 15:53:44 You receive an email with the DHL tracking number don't you? Jul 08 15:53:55 Termana, you receive two. Jul 08 15:54:00 Yes, when it's sent Jul 08 15:54:15 MohammadAG: n950? damn, i thought this as a windows phone Jul 08 15:54:18 ISO time is a way to represent a time Jul 08 15:54:28 ieatlint, lol Jul 08 15:54:53 YYYY-MM-ddThh:mm:ss.ffffff+hh:mm Jul 08 15:55:19 facebook uses ISO time Jul 08 15:56:04 MohammadAG: yours didn't ship too? :( Jul 08 15:56:23 Well, hopefully by Tuesday, then. Jul 08 15:56:29 Lazy Nokians. Jul 08 15:56:38 You figure their shipping department could handle more than this. Jul 08 15:56:48 I'm leaving on Monday Jul 08 15:56:50 GeneralAntilles, SHHH. You don't say anything bad about them until you get the device Jul 08 15:56:54 or Sunday night Jul 08 15:56:58 bastards, don't they realize that a weekend of waiting will make anxious geeks cry? Jul 08 15:57:13 GeneralAntilles: most shipping departments work till around midnight Jul 08 15:57:20 but nokia is just M-E-H! Jul 08 15:57:39 lol Jul 08 15:57:53 there should be an official MEH department Jul 08 15:57:54 you are blaming Nokia employees for not working til midnigth ? ;) Jul 08 15:58:00 ~slap hiemanshu Jul 08 15:58:00 * infobot slaps hiemanshu, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! Jul 08 15:58:12 javispedro: yes Jul 08 15:58:15 javispedro, they could do shifts Jul 08 15:58:17 * MohammadAG hides Jul 08 15:58:28 MohammadAG: most do 8 hours shifts Jul 08 15:58:29 can be Meego Engineering Headquarters Jul 08 15:58:36 actually I'll be honest Jul 08 15:58:40 "MeeGo development now transfered to MEH" Jul 08 15:58:55 how hard is it to make 250 packages and stamp 250 labels on them Jul 08 15:58:58 MohammadAG, I've set my laser from stun to kill Jul 08 15:59:02 then ask DHL to do the shipping Jul 08 15:59:16 * MohammadAG takes out his shotgun Jul 08 15:59:17 MohammadAG: my guess is they have a lot more than 250 phones to send out Jul 08 15:59:20 legacy guns ftw Jul 08 15:59:21 MohammadAG: right Jul 08 15:59:24 i hear nokia ships more than just that Jul 08 15:59:30 MohammadAG: There's no "ISO time"! There's ISO 8601 which defines time *formats*, but it's not a time zone :-p Jul 08 15:59:42 MohammadAG: most people to 8 - 4, 4-midnight shifts Jul 08 15:59:48 hiemanshu, priority to those who paid, aka us Jul 08 15:59:55 I paid a good 0.00 for the damn thing Jul 08 15:59:56 Top tip, by the way, if you get a replacement N8 for a broken N900; and they offer to replace it with an E7 you don't get the full E7 sales package Jul 08 16:00:02 ...which reduces resale value Jul 08 16:00:12 * javispedro envisions hackers with pitchforks in front of MeegoEngineeringHeadquarters demanding their free N950s. Jul 08 16:00:24 javispedro: I haz shotgun :D Jul 08 16:00:31 Jaffa, lol they considered that too? Jul 08 16:00:38 Hurp, looking for something cool on the N8 to show case the compass. Guess it'll have to be Columbus .. Jul 08 16:00:48 alterego: LOL Jul 08 16:00:54 alterego: you have something to play with too :( Jul 08 16:01:01 alterego, you have a tester here Jul 08 16:01:05 alterego, if you can't get it to run without symbian crashing ;) Jul 08 16:01:09 hi there people, anyone could sucessfully use the DVB or ISDB-Tb nokia DTV tuner in the N900? Jul 08 16:01:09 *can Jul 08 16:01:18 jaffa, it's normal for unrepairable broken phones to be replaced by refurbs rather than new ones, isnt it? Jul 08 16:01:21 hi, question:). Can I get the same results for both ways? 1. I use shell command "lshal" , 2. use C code to call HAL api? Jul 08 16:01:22 javispedro: is there a way in which it doesn't crash? Jul 08 16:01:28 javispedro, I suggest static library linking btw Jul 08 16:01:31 with librx Jul 08 16:01:39 hiemanshu: yeah, had a delivery this morning anyway ;) Jul 08 16:01:45 nid0: It's not a refurb E7, it's just not got a box. Jul 08 16:01:48 It has bluetooth connectivity to send the DTV payload to the phone Jul 08 16:01:56 meaning it's a refurb Jul 08 16:01:58 alterego: damn you Jul 08 16:02:12 alterego: did you promise elop to make WP7 apps that he is giving you free phones? Jul 08 16:02:17 Jaffa, ever had an N8? Jul 08 16:02:18 nid0: Jul 08 16:02:25 hey guys, happy friday!! Jul 08 16:02:28 I wanted a comparison between the N8 and E7 Jul 08 16:02:32 MohammadAG: Yeah. Nice hardware. Jul 08 16:02:35 brief one, a one liner :P Jul 08 16:02:38 Smegheadz: sad friday, meh :( Jul 08 16:02:42 Smegheadz, happy? Jul 08 16:02:57 MohammadAG: E7 - keyboard good, same res on bigger screen => frustrating. N8 feels more solid having no moving parts. Jul 08 16:03:17 hah Jul 08 16:03:20 and is it lighter? Jul 08 16:03:25 * dm8tbr likes the bigger screen though Jul 08 16:03:30 already getting used to keyboard-less devices, eh? Jul 08 16:03:34 e7's the first decent keyboard on a slidey landscape nokia's done imo Jul 08 16:03:37 hiemanshu: no :P Jul 08 16:03:49 any idea? Jul 08 16:03:58 alterego: worse part, there is no way even to buy dev devices :( Jul 08 16:03:59 The N8 is shockingly light .. Jul 08 16:04:17 yeah Jul 08 16:04:25 alterego, see how fast the camera is :p Jul 08 16:04:25 why sad friday? well its sorta happy for me, nearly finished work but its raining Jul 08 16:04:32 alterego: its a new way of making phones, its called 'LESSER PARTS & LESSER FEATURES' :P Jul 08 16:04:32 without focusing Jul 08 16:04:40 MohammadAG: yes .. N9 is supposedly quicker :o Jul 08 16:04:43 you know, point and shoot Jul 08 16:04:53 Smegheadz, ah, lucky, raining. The sun here is melting this laptop's chassis ;9 Jul 08 16:04:54 Smegheadz: our N950s didn't ship, so sad sad friday Jul 08 16:05:05 alterego, I wonder if the chat Nokia made is fake Jul 08 16:05:07 javispedro: its been raining everyday for the last 3 dyas here Jul 08 16:05:09 MohammadAG, e7 is edof Jul 08 16:05:11 the N8 is faster than the iPhone Jul 08 16:05:15 nid0, N8 isn't Jul 08 16:05:16 I'm stunned actually, the pictures are grabbed almost instantly, it must 1/8th of the time of the N900 Jul 08 16:05:24 yeah Jul 08 16:05:31 o, misread then, thought you were asking bout e7 time Jul 08 16:05:48 i'll sendin some rain if u send some sun Jul 08 16:06:07 ok, still at new order, not shipping today :( Jul 08 16:06:13 Lightning is triangulating my position. Jul 08 16:06:28 you itching i take it to play with the n950. wouldnt mind a look at one Jul 08 16:06:36 Smegheadz: yesw Jul 08 16:06:38 yes* Jul 08 16:06:53 maybe someone at nokia's just fucking with all you guys for laughs and holding the status back, and your devices will all show up monday anyway Jul 08 16:07:02 hiemanshu, you know, you could run a good push notification service Jul 08 16:07:03 1900 HEL time already and DHL still says no news ;) Jul 08 16:07:11 hiemanshu: it's like 7pm in Finland, no chance of it shipping until Monday imo. Jul 08 16:07:17 javispedro, you live in Spain Jul 08 16:07:23 alterego: yes Jul 08 16:07:24 anyone ever use xchat on the n900? lil awkward but pretty good. Jul 08 16:07:24 HEL is right next to you Jul 08 16:07:27 MohammadAG: heh yeah :P Jul 08 16:07:39 I use xchat in the N900 Jul 08 16:07:40 IL isn't close to HEL Jul 08 16:07:43 specially if they use the same secret maglev line amazon used to cross france in half an hour! Jul 08 16:07:49 MohammadAG: IN is further away Jul 08 16:07:57 what's IN? Jul 08 16:08:00 MohammadAG: India Jul 08 16:08:03 MohammadAG, you're in the same timezone, stop complaining ;) Jul 08 16:08:08 I wonder /me checks out nokia panorama on the N8 Jul 08 16:08:11 downloading... Jul 08 16:08:19 alterego, same as N900 Jul 08 16:08:24 people, from where should I start in order to make the bluetooth DTV nokia receiver work in the maemo? Jul 08 16:08:27 with fake hildon! Jul 08 16:08:36 MohammadAG: doesn't use compass? Jul 08 16:08:38 lame .. Jul 08 16:08:43 no Jul 08 16:08:51 i hope better quality pics though ;) Jul 08 16:08:56 duh :P Jul 08 16:09:00 rafael2k, from testing it and making a blog post with the problems you found ;) Jul 08 16:09:17 alterego, I'd request a developer certificate and mod the camera Jul 08 16:09:21 javispedro: nokia says it's not supported. how should I test it? Jul 08 16:09:28 there are some continuous focus hacks for the camera Jul 08 16:09:36 rafael2k, do you have one? Jul 08 16:09:45 javispedro: I'll buy one. Jul 08 16:10:01 javispedro: I do have an N85 that is a supported one. Jul 08 16:10:04 it will _not_ work out of the box. Jul 08 16:10:07 that is for sure. Jul 08 16:10:16 MohammadAG: you dawg I heard you like fast shipping, so we aren't sending yours till next month, love, nokia :P Jul 08 16:10:16 true Jul 08 16:10:20 s/you/yo/ Jul 08 16:10:20 hiemanshu meant: MohammadAG: yo dawg I heard you like fast shipping, so we aren't sending yours till next month, love, nokia :P Jul 08 16:11:22 rafael2k, I have no idea how it works; if you buy one and post details, you might interest someone in getting it to work, but that's not for taken -- it might never work. Jul 08 16:11:40 rafael2k, also, search and post on talk.maemo.org Jul 08 16:12:04 their usually nice and responsive with sending bills i bet Jul 08 16:12:15 I'll buy it anyone to see how it works. I get back w/ this topic when I get it here. Jul 08 16:12:25 s/anyone/anyway Jul 08 16:13:12 rafael2k, If it's expensive, ensure you have a backup plan: a way to return it or someone to sell it to, in case it never works ;) Jul 08 16:14:00 btw, the receiver I'm talking about is this one: http://www.nokia.com.br/produtos/acessorios/todos-os-acessorios/escritorio-e-casa/receptor-de-tv-digital/receptor-de-tv-movel-nokia-su-33wb Jul 08 16:15:10 javispedro: it costs R$99, ~ U$70 Jul 08 16:15:14 rafael2k: Sounds like what you need to do is buy loads of them for us and hope it works Jul 08 16:15:16 not so expensive... Jul 08 16:15:20 your choice Jul 08 16:15:21 Is it DVB-H or DVB-T? Jul 08 16:15:28 DVB and ISDB-T Jul 08 16:15:39 rafael2k: DVB-*H* or DVB-*T*? Jul 08 16:15:42 here in Brazil, only ISDB-T Jul 08 16:16:36 Jaffa: probably DVB-H Jul 08 16:16:53 that makes it virtually useless at least here... Jul 08 16:17:44 well, here in Brazil the One-Seg ISDB-Tb is going well... Jul 08 16:18:08 In Sao Paulo there are more then 20 broadcasters already in digital Jul 08 16:18:27 * sp3000 is confused Jul 08 16:18:37 at least to watch the F-1 races is a good bet for me! ; ) Jul 08 16:19:00 isn't jabber supposed to let you use the same nick/acct from multiple locations with that other field being unique or such Jul 08 16:19:07 the resource Jul 08 16:19:13 right Jul 08 16:19:35 but this conference/room/channel thing gives me a 409 conflict Jul 08 16:19:49 now I can change the nick for that channel Jul 08 16:20:03 but it's kinda stupid that I'm on there with four nicks now Jul 08 16:20:06 xmpp conferencing is a special case IIRC Jul 08 16:20:44 I'm fine with special, I just wasn't expecting special in the derogatory sense Jul 08 16:23:40 Jaffa was right, DHL says "processed" at 1900 Jul 08 16:23:45 1905 to be exact Jul 08 16:25:27 dammit, dhl offices here close at 20:30 ;) Jul 08 16:25:37 I do not think they are making it even with the secret maglev line ;) Jul 08 16:26:17 ooh. there's one that opens on saturdays... Jul 08 16:27:00 ~n950order Jul 08 16:27:01 [n950order] https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/ProductDetailByName?productName=Nokia+N950 and wait for "internal error" changing to something wonderful eventually :-) Jul 08 16:28:51 * dm8tbr didn't get further emails after turning something wonderful back into an internal error, so next week somewhen I guess... Jul 08 16:41:19 infobot: no, n950order is https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/ProductDetailByName?productName=Nokia+N950 and wait for expected "unexpected error" changing to something wonderful eventually :-) Jul 08 16:41:19 okay, DocScrutinizer Jul 08 16:42:35 hah, found the DHL tracking id for my ddp n900 Jul 08 16:42:46 it is exactly the same email template Jul 08 16:42:54 javispedro: hah Jul 08 16:44:46 instead of this newfangled "you have an n950 waiting for you", the subject was "N900 available in DDP" Jul 08 16:45:18 * ieatlint did not get a free/early n900 :( Jul 08 16:45:41 the new one is much more tantalizing isn't it? :P Jul 08 16:45:50 it feels like marketing verbage Jul 08 16:46:05 more than purely technical information Jul 08 16:46:06 the n900 ddp was not free. Jul 08 16:46:59 yeah i ended up not doing the N900 DDP :/ it was only margically cheaper than you could get an N900 for, except with no warranty Jul 08 16:47:14 and by then we knew they broke Jul 08 16:47:20 (that ended up being partially untrue, as I got my ddp n900 repaired) Jul 08 16:47:38 lol Jul 08 16:48:12 hah, well, i didn't get the option Jul 08 16:48:19 with the n950, you don't even own it though Jul 08 16:48:23 yeah Jul 08 16:48:40 * slonopotamus still has n900 box with nice "NOT FOR SALE" sticker :) Jul 08 16:49:10 bah, if you bought it, you can sell it Jul 08 16:49:29 I wish I could see the n900 ddp dhl tracking info to compare, but no dice =) Jul 08 16:49:39 ieatlint: well, i didn't obviously Jul 08 16:49:57 hah, fair enough Jul 08 16:50:04 achipa: ping Jul 08 16:50:08 yay unreleased devices Jul 08 16:52:27 achipa: (or any of the early adopters) how to open back cover after "unboxing" properly (aka achipa unboxing "I consider unscrewing and 'losing the screws' a normal part of unboxing process") Jul 08 16:55:42 ~n950club Jul 08 16:56:14 is there any alternative to maemo's modest? Jul 08 16:57:45 theres claws Jul 08 16:57:49 or theres a different phone Jul 08 17:01:55 unfortunately claws is not so integrated as modest Jul 08 17:03:59 DocScrutinizer: when I saw it there were 4 screws holding the back cover Jul 08 17:04:24 dm8tbr: that's obvious Jul 08 17:04:44 dm8tbr: I can even tell you they are TX4 Jul 08 17:04:50 DocScrutinizer: after you accidentially lose them in your sofa you proceed to remove the back cover which IIRC is a tight fit Jul 08 17:05:06 tha's the point Jul 08 17:05:36 hm Jul 08 17:05:45 I don't know where to pry in my fingernail or what else to do to make it come off Jul 08 17:05:46 on the n810 now Jul 08 17:05:53 maemo4 ftw Jul 08 17:06:11 DocScrutinizer: I'm not 100% sure but keyboard side in the middle could have been mentioned Jul 08 17:06:12 damn thing took a bad dive a while back Jul 08 17:06:23 or was that the pressure point to slide out the display? Jul 08 17:06:28 the sliding tracks are a little messed up Jul 08 17:06:55 and i cant find replacement tracks Jul 08 17:07:16 this communities dominate guy is truly a symbian fan Jul 08 17:07:40 now he has some plots and so to indicate that s60 is stealing market share from the iphone Jul 08 17:07:48 hahaha Jul 08 17:07:52 s60?? Jul 08 17:08:05 doubtful Jul 08 17:08:17 hi, does anyone know, how i can access n900 nand with meego 1.2? /dev/mtd* does not exist Jul 08 17:08:37 sid__: are you on the n900CE? Jul 08 17:09:05 yes Jul 08 17:09:56 ce? Jul 08 17:11:28 carbonated escargots Jul 08 17:11:31 something along "*attach*" Jul 08 17:11:33 Macer: since 1.2 it is renamed to "Community Edition" --> http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 Jul 08 17:12:01 ubiattach or dunno what Jul 08 17:12:31 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=73751 Jul 08 17:12:37 sid__: ^^^ Jul 08 17:13:12 i do not have a mtd device Jul 08 17:13:42 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=73751 Jul 08 17:13:44 sid__: ^^^ Jul 08 17:14:19 Oh my, teachers in a rural Ugandan school were unknowingly using a live bomb as a bell. They would bang the bomb with stones to call the school's 700 students to class. Jul 08 17:14:26 ubiattach /dev/ubi_ctrl -m 5 Jul 08 17:14:41 a button icon cannot be bigger than 40x40, WTF :( Jul 08 17:15:41 oh Jul 08 17:15:47 sid__: does it work? :) Jul 08 17:16:17 no, ubiattach: error!: cannot attach mtd5 Jul 08 17:16:26 error 19 (No such device) Jul 08 17:16:36 i meant meego overall. but i get the point Jul 08 17:16:41 why didn't you just do the sd install? Jul 08 17:17:33 i have to create it first or load a special module. Jul 08 17:17:51 Macer: my usb is broken and maemo does not boot. i need a rescuesystem Jul 08 17:18:02 ouch Jul 08 17:18:10 broke off like mine? :) Jul 08 17:18:20 sid__: reboot Jul 08 17:18:29 http://tech.rancorous.net/?p=19 Jul 08 17:18:36 i will let you know if i get it fixed heh Jul 08 17:19:36 sid__: this is a case where even *nix needs a reboot to make kernel aware of ubi Jul 08 17:21:03 macer: yes, its like yours. Jul 08 17:22:23 well i am working on repairing mine. i will let you know if it works ;) Jul 08 17:22:51 that usb port problem is pretty bad considering at the time it was a near $500 phone Jul 08 17:22:57 i would have expected better quality :) Jul 08 17:23:27 i asked one of our electrician to search a "solder company" :-) Jul 08 17:24:54 DocScrutinizer: after reboot dmesg shows only cmdline with mtdoops.mtddev=2 Jul 08 17:25:20 in kernelconfig there are several mtd modules statically compiled Jul 08 17:26:08 can you please send me "ls -lh /dev/mtd*". i think i just have to create them via mknod Jul 08 17:29:20 sid_, search for mtd in /proc/devices, and there is your major Jul 08 17:29:37 minors are 0 for mtd0, 2 for mtd1, 4 for mtd2.. Jul 08 17:30:36 Docscrutinizer: Do you have a screenshot oft your dhl tracking? Do they still fly at the evening? Jul 08 17:31:08 dm8tbr: ok, got it. for some misconception I din't think the plastic ends would come off too Jul 08 17:32:19 actually now I realize the whole thing is plastic Jul 08 17:33:34 javispedro: +2 or ^2 ? Jul 08 17:33:50 6 for mtd3 Jul 08 17:33:55 thx Jul 08 17:34:30 1 is mtd0ro, 3 is mtd1ro... never seen them before =) Jul 08 17:37:44 the good news: N950 USB receptale obviously is a thru-hole type :-) Jul 08 17:37:51 http://www.reghardware.com/2011/07/08/dev_iphone_4_cable_melts/ Jul 08 17:38:22 impossible to shear off Jul 08 17:38:23 DocScrutinizer: so, no more falling out connectors? Jul 08 17:38:36 DocScrutinizer: does N950 have fmtx? Jul 08 17:38:55 HTF shall I know? :-) Jul 08 17:39:30 I heard it has the fubction but a antenna pin NC Jul 08 17:39:39 I heard it has the function but a antenna pin NC Jul 08 17:41:28 HAH, they followed my old idea to use the speaker reflex "dead" volume to place the antennae there Jul 08 17:42:06 ok, "sesame close!" Jul 08 17:42:09 DocScrutinizer, surgery time? Jul 08 17:42:15 over Jul 08 17:42:26 GeneralAntilles: device shipped? Jul 08 17:42:34 Nurp Jul 08 17:42:46 GeneralAntilles: I think they ran out of N950s Jul 08 17:42:48 DocScrutinizer: oh, sorry, should have mentioned it's a one piece :) Jul 08 17:42:52 GeneralAntilles: the cake is a lie :P Jul 08 17:43:30 generic advice: pry off the speaker end carefully with your nails, then slide around to USB both directions. Lift off speaker side first Jul 08 17:45:13 assemble in reverse order: first "hook" cover to USB and AV, then "hinge" the cover down around that point Jul 08 17:46:38 actually there's not much interesting inside there, except the battery itself Jul 08 17:48:19 the "9" on lockscreen magically re-appeared Jul 08 17:49:42 well, I gather this device does not *have* a bupbat, so no defect when RTC gets lost on 60s of main bat removal Jul 08 17:50:34 still a pity it doesn't try to sync to GSM time rather than rising the fistboot wizard asking for date/time setup Jul 08 17:50:49 firstboot* Jul 08 17:51:14 so what, half of the carriers have the wrong date Jul 08 17:51:21 and the other half do not have a date at all =) Jul 08 17:51:41 :-P Jul 08 17:51:48 the pity is the rtc battery Jul 08 17:51:49 mine is fine Jul 08 17:51:58 and that's a rhyme Jul 08 17:52:37 javispedro: null-issue for N9(50) Jul 08 17:53:18 hum? Jul 08 17:53:19 HAHA "19:4 " Jul 08 17:53:20 no battery? Jul 08 17:53:42 I guess it makes sense consider no user-removable one... Jul 08 17:53:57 duh, changed to 19:49 Jul 08 17:54:12 javispedro: exactly Jul 08 17:54:12 DocScrutinizer: the 9 icon fixed? :P Jul 08 17:54:20 s/icon/font/ Jul 08 17:54:22 hiemanshu meant: DocScrutinizer: the 9 font fixed? :P Jul 08 17:54:39 DocScrutinizer, crash the device and try and see if holding power button works as hardpoweroff ;) Jul 08 17:54:52 DocScrutinizer: http://twitter.com/#!/gregjroberts/status/89388791827144706 Jul 08 17:55:08 hiemanshu, DocScrutinizer hates twitter you insensitive clod! Jul 08 17:55:11 javispedro: how would I crah the kenel? Jul 08 17:55:22 crah the kenel? LOL Jul 08 17:55:40 DocScrutinizer, no idea, have you tried pluggin in a usb gadget already ? ;) Jul 08 17:55:48 crash the kernel, damn. Typing is hard when you hold the N950 Jul 08 17:55:51 javispedro: Yeah, being senstive is over-rated :P Jul 08 17:56:00 lol Jul 08 17:56:01 not yet, javispedro Jul 08 17:56:57 "d Jul 08 17:57:27 "show cell info [x| ]" WOW Jul 08 17:57:37 hmm, where are the N950 flashers? Jul 08 17:58:02 * javispedro ponders flying to HEL to find my n950 Jul 08 17:58:22 javispedro: how far is HEL? Jul 08 18:00:15 meh, of course the O2 APN setting is incorrect default, as always Jul 08 18:00:54 just 3400km apart. Jul 08 18:02:04 javispedro: I could walk there :P Jul 08 18:02:12 wow, call forwarding is semi-sane implemetation now Jul 08 18:02:27 QMLHater =) Jul 08 18:02:42 javispedro: 6796.5 Kilometers from here, I could probably drive up there Jul 08 18:03:21 btw contacts has per-contact ringtone now :-D Jul 08 18:03:31 DocScrutinizer: got the new image? Jul 08 18:03:37 nope Jul 08 18:03:52 any idea where the old one is? Jul 08 18:04:15 nope Jul 08 18:04:16 * hiemanshu is too dumb to find anything :( Jul 08 18:04:17 DocScrutinizer: yes ? Jul 08 18:04:24 Somehow I like the bigger contact image in N900 (when call is in progress). Jul 08 18:04:29 achipa: thanks, solved Jul 08 18:04:41 achipa: back cover is a bit hard to get off Jul 08 18:04:49 just the first time Jul 08 18:04:58 a bit like... er... the N900 :) Jul 08 18:05:03 :-) Jul 08 18:05:35 achipa: basically I tought I could get off the middle part and the ends stay on device Jul 08 18:05:37 just remember that the whole back is one piece... Jul 08 18:05:43 :) Jul 08 18:05:45 right Jul 08 18:05:46 :-) Jul 08 18:06:03 that one tricked me too when I got mine Jul 08 18:06:27 the flasher LED pair is a true monster Jul 08 18:06:52 looks like it's going to shoot lazors Jul 08 18:07:01 * achipa considering doing an unofficial "how to change batteries on the N950 and N9" video tutorial Jul 08 18:07:16 * javispedro does not usually link to the elop tmo thread, but this post made me laugh: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1046684&postcount=130 Jul 08 18:07:38 achipa: do you have an n9? Jul 08 18:07:56 achipa: you *may* do this, I'm a bit reluctant, regarding this NDA abomination Jul 08 18:08:00 ieatlint: I have everything :) Jul 08 18:08:19 (in the loosest possible sense of the word) Jul 08 18:08:29 achipa: can i convince you to run this: "grep Clocking /var/log/syslog" and tell me what the line says? Jul 08 18:08:44 empty Jul 08 18:08:46 :) Jul 08 18:08:50 interesting.. Jul 08 18:09:01 didn't run, but I know it, syslog is off by default Jul 08 18:09:05 (understandably) Jul 08 18:09:06 :) Jul 08 18:09:13 :-P Jul 08 18:09:16 lol Jul 08 18:09:23 heh Jul 08 18:09:30 that also differs from what i've otherwise heard Jul 08 18:09:40 mind doing "dmesg | grep Clocking" then? Jul 08 18:09:52 I would guess it's the same... but let me check Jul 08 18:10:06 thanks :) Jul 08 18:11:20 heh, Operation not permitted... capability-funk Jul 08 18:11:43 bah, ok Jul 08 18:11:46 even under root :-) Jul 08 18:11:52 aegis \o/ Jul 08 18:12:03 fsckit! Jul 08 18:12:08 ~aegis Jul 08 18:12:08 hmm... aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide, or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism Jul 08 18:12:34 i'm surprised that syslog isn't on actually Jul 08 18:13:15 oh, wait, it is Jul 08 18:13:30 I'm surprised we're supposed to develop anything in this crippled restrictive environment Jul 08 18:13:31 * achipa looking at wrong device Jul 08 18:13:35 * ieatlint suspected so ;) Jul 08 18:13:53 DocScrutinizer: i've run things via qtcreator... had no issues Jul 08 18:14:27 applications are *mostly * unaffected, it's when you go lower, into middleware and below when it gets painful Jul 08 18:14:45 well, when a "dmesg" under root account gets a "operation not permitted" - I start to feel seriously pissed Jul 08 18:15:03 heh, yeah.. Jul 08 18:15:08 guh, how? Jul 08 18:15:19 BCMM: completely Jul 08 18:15:27 :-P Jul 08 18:17:10 the swipe UI i'm liking though Jul 08 18:17:13 it's nice Jul 08 18:17:21 I can't wait to learn about "Operation not permitted" for `` echo foo >/sys/bar '' and similar fsckups Jul 08 18:17:25 ieatlint: got yours already? Jul 08 18:17:27 ieatlint: 38.4/390/600 (crystal/core/MPU) Jul 08 18:17:50 Big Muzzy. I like Klokks. Jul 08 18:18:15 hehe Jul 08 18:18:19 achipa: thanks Jul 08 18:18:49 DocScrutinizer: actually, you CAN get the permissions for all that stuff, but docs are a bit scarce Jul 08 18:19:00 DocScrutinizer: I cant wait till I get my device and do a echo ' ' > *aegis* Jul 08 18:19:06 OOOHNOES, and "Op not permitted" for i2ctools - that'll gonna be FUN Jul 08 18:19:34 hiemanshu: and then reflash :) Jul 08 18:19:52 achipa: well I wanna see what happens :P Jul 08 18:20:02 DocScrutinizer: so is dmesg symlinked to bb, or did they implement their own somehow? Jul 08 18:20:02 achipa: so where to get this info then? Jul 08 18:21:14 DocScrutinizer: working on it, hopefully we can include significantly more docs in the next SDK iteration Jul 08 18:21:20 http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Open-Hardware-License-OHL-11/ Jul 08 18:21:34 BCMM: I'd usually answer those questions immediately, but I haven't managed yet to find the time to integrate the 950 into my WLAN network properly, and open a remote shell like I usually do on my other 5 devices Jul 08 18:21:57 achipa: thanks Jul 08 18:22:04 so basically it's crippled? Jul 08 18:22:05 well dmesg as i understand does a call to the kernel, my guess is they're just intercepting all calls to ioctl Jul 08 18:22:39 ruskie: always has been :P Jul 08 18:22:42 hiemanshu: but the best klokk on the N950 is the 192MHz one for the graphics core... Jul 08 18:22:52 ieatlint: ^^ Jul 08 18:22:54 ieatlint: aiui aegis can intercept whatever they like Jul 08 18:23:25 let us know if you can replace the kernel Jul 08 18:23:25 achipa: wait, I thought it was around 202 something? Jul 08 18:23:33 ruskie: you can, and then reflash :P Jul 08 18:23:57 ruskie: according to Jul 08 18:24:04 ~aegis Jul 08 18:24:05 well, aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide, or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism Jul 08 18:24:25 you can replace the kernel, but then you can't access 90% of your stuff anymore Jul 08 18:24:38 hiemanshu: 192 afaik, but also a bit different memory throughput, so effectively over 2x the N900 perf in most cases Jul 08 18:25:14 nah, this critter is snappy, no doubt Jul 08 18:26:12 achipa: well from what I read, the default 530(3630) clock is around 202 something Jul 08 18:26:32 except for orientation transitions during unsuspend/unlock :-) Jul 08 18:26:54 achipa: well on mobile devices for the GPU a 10 mhz difference is well about a 4-5% difference :P Jul 08 18:27:25 i like that i did a software update, and the less command disappeared afterward Jul 08 18:27:48 hold the locked device - with shell wndow in front - in portrait mode and then open the kbd... YAY Jul 08 18:27:51 hiemanshu: well, http://markmail.org/message/hpkc377xdc3xvq2e... I only met this 192mhz number in relation to the 3630 Jul 08 18:28:15 >1s rotation madness Jul 08 18:28:51 it does have this bit of 'well, make up your mind about how you want to be oriented' moment occasionally Jul 08 18:29:07 occasionally? :-) Jul 08 18:29:32 :) Jul 08 18:29:40 this case I described is pretty reproducable, and easy to set up Jul 08 18:30:01 if you just have the on-screen keyboard open and rotate, it gets a bit crazy too Jul 08 18:30:09 i think i know what is going wrong. http://pastebin.com/VrWaF1S6 nand vendor is not recognized Jul 08 18:30:11 just lift the screen "upper" end a few mm, sufficent to "slide out" kbd Jul 08 18:31:56 achipa: I noticed the USB is pretty rock solid on N950 :-) Jul 08 18:32:14 the receptacle, mechanically Jul 08 18:32:17 am i right or is it a only a warning Jul 08 18:35:05 OK, the indicator LED is COMPLETELY useless. Flashing bright like a charcoal even on missed calls Jul 08 18:35:48 I.E. mce for N950 has quite some bugs it seems Jul 08 18:37:37 DocScrutinizer, it has a FIXME on it :P Jul 08 18:37:47 haha Jul 08 18:37:53 I see Jul 08 18:38:05 where? in gitorious? Jul 08 18:38:54 * DocScrutinizer idly fires up the maintenace webpage of his router... Jul 08 18:40:18 http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-middleware/mce/blobs/master/mce.ini#line530 Jul 08 18:40:38 m'hm "hostname: RM-680" - niiice Jul 08 18:42:12 crap Jul 08 18:42:19 i am gonna get SO many beeps now <_< Jul 08 18:42:25 DocScrutinizer: that LED is vestigial at best... kind of follows the N810-N900 direction :( Jul 08 18:42:34 docscrutiniser has n950? Jul 08 18:42:34 everyone constantly referring firmware/hostname "RM*" Jul 08 18:42:47 RM Jul 08 18:42:51 ~dict vestigial Jul 08 18:42:52 lol Jul 08 18:42:55 Dictionary 'vestigial' (2): \Ves*tig"i*al\, a. Of or pertaining to a vestige or remnant; like a vestige. [1913 Webster] ;; not fully developed in mature animals; "rudimentary wings" . Jul 08 18:43:07 and yes, if you rip the USB out from this one, you pretty much ripped out half of the circuit board ;) Jul 08 18:43:09 rm_work: not to mention the unix command Jul 08 18:43:14 I see Jul 08 18:43:15 you know, rm Jul 08 18:43:15 DocScrutinizer: you have an n950? Jul 08 18:43:23 or vi too, i suppose Jul 08 18:43:26 obviously, vi___ Jul 08 18:43:29 haha, i like the messaging encoding settings: "Full, Reduced or Turkish" Jul 08 18:43:44 DocScrutinizer: is it made of dreams and rainbows? Jul 08 18:43:57 kerio: definitely not Jul 08 18:44:04 is it good at least? Jul 08 18:44:06 kerio: yeah i'm used to it Jul 08 18:44:15 i guess we n900 users are now a prole underclass. Jul 08 18:44:32 kerio: it is a device with 8GB myDocs and no slot for SD card Jul 08 18:44:44 i'm also often in the ubuntu/gentoo/programming channels Jul 08 18:44:50 ~dict prole Jul 08 18:44:51 DocScrutinizer: wait, really? Jul 08 18:44:52 Dictionary 'prole' (2): a member of the working class (not necessarily employed); "workers of the world--unite!" ;; Zip code(s): 50229. Jul 08 18:44:54 that's... tiny Jul 08 18:44:57 does the n9 hav emore? Jul 08 18:44:59 *have Jul 08 18:45:01 it's a developer device Jul 08 18:45:01 docscrutinizer: does it use a normal SIM? i never heard Jul 08 18:45:01 you asked for rootfs on eMMC, you got it Jul 08 18:45:02 hell, I get better mp3 players at my next chewing gum dsipenser machine Jul 08 18:45:08 rm_work: yes Jul 08 18:45:18 achipa, they all say that :P Jul 08 18:45:51 Would you be happier with, say, half the RAM and double the flash ? Jul 08 18:46:02 Me? nope Jul 08 18:46:07 just saying Jul 08 18:46:19 though... Jul 08 18:46:27 DocScrutinizer, it's 16GBs, but rootfs is 4GBs Jul 08 18:46:36 2GBs /home Jul 08 18:46:44 MohammadAG: do you have an n950? Jul 08 18:46:48 I don't think it's wise to give developers machines that are better regarding RAM or CPU than the target Jul 08 18:46:49 and we all know 16 = 14.8 Jul 08 18:47:02 MohammadAG: I know Jul 08 18:47:05 DocScrutinizer: correct. And we haven't Jul 08 18:47:14 well 4gb root sounds usable Jul 08 18:47:17 vi___, is this a survey? :P Jul 08 18:47:40 MohammadAG: no im just curious to see who is left. Jul 08 18:47:46 though 512mb rootfs on soc and /usr /var and /home mounted off emmc would have worked as well Jul 08 18:47:55 vi___, about 7 got the device Jul 08 18:47:56 achipa: So N9 will have 1GB RAM? Jul 08 18:47:59 I'm not one of them :P Jul 08 18:48:02 DocScrutinizer, yes Jul 08 18:48:02 * ruskie really hopes the n9 losses aegis Jul 08 18:48:14 ruskie, it won't Jul 08 18:48:27 ruskie: not really, lot more fuss for no gain Jul 08 18:48:58 the emmc in the N950 is faster than the N900 so there is no incentive to put the rootfs there Jul 08 18:49:12 lemme pastie sth funny for you eventually.. The output of "mount" Jul 08 18:49:16 SCARY!!! Jul 08 18:49:30 yeah, that one is a mouthful Jul 08 18:50:29 * ruskie waits to see if aegis gets broken Jul 08 18:50:48 MohammadAG, hmm great... if it doesn't it means I save a ton of money and nokia never gets any of it Jul 08 18:50:54 DocScrutinizer: 1GB ram, 16 or 64GB flash versions (N9) Jul 08 18:51:11 ruskie, start looking for devices then Jul 08 18:51:16 ruskie: save yourself the cash, n9 blows. Jul 08 18:51:18 it won't lose aegis Jul 08 18:51:27 ~dict blows Jul 08 18:51:29 DocScrutinizer, 10 lines of aegis Jul 08 18:51:29 could not find definition for blows Jul 08 18:51:31 amiright? Jul 08 18:51:49 vi___, think of all alternative devices Jul 08 18:51:51 might as well get a second n900 Jul 08 18:51:53 then say it blows Jul 08 18:51:57 MohammadAG: just 8 Jul 08 18:51:58 :S Jul 08 18:52:13 im very tempted by a droid 3 tbh Jul 08 18:52:19 achipa, I don't have a device, so I just guessed :P Jul 08 18:52:26 HAHA, clicking "Disconnect" on my WLAN connection (N950) triggers *immediate* reconnect - I'm fine with it for *now* as it was to accure the fixed IP I assigned Jul 08 18:52:27 well, if you don't mind Android, sure Jul 08 18:52:37 there is only one alternative, and most of us here already own one. or even two. Jul 08 18:52:48 I do, but the first decent slider keyboard a phone in *years* is a big seller to me Jul 08 18:53:08 nid0: is that the one with the locked bootloader ? Jul 08 18:53:17 heh Jul 08 18:53:24 I like how you think achipa :P Jul 08 18:53:31 MohammadAG: yep Jul 08 18:53:33 according to today's story achipa yeah sadly. but, it's also the one with the correct number of rows on the keyboard Jul 08 18:54:01 * ruskie wonders how long until aegis is broken or bypassed Jul 08 18:54:17 nid0: just thinkin' it's a bit funny how people flip out bc of aegis and then go and buy something that is even worse Jul 08 18:54:28 nid0: is it none? is it none rows on the keyboard. Like a really long wey-tube? Jul 08 18:54:46 aegis looks scarier than it really is - a bit like selinux when you first encounter it Jul 08 18:54:54 selinux is just broken Jul 08 18:55:06 broken can be scary :) Jul 08 18:55:07 I don't have an N950 but I think a space on the right is more ergonomic than one in the center Jul 08 18:55:17 i'm not flipping out over aegis though achipa, at the end of the day if the device works and isnt overbearingly restrictive I couldnt really care too much about what protection is in place to ensure the device can be commercially viable Jul 08 18:55:18 ruskie: you *can not* break aegis Jul 08 18:55:22 why because you're a right handed user? Jul 08 18:55:36 yes Jul 08 18:55:47 well actually Jul 08 18:55:54 because I don't have to reach to the center to get it Jul 08 18:55:56 achipa: see Jul 08 18:55:59 ~aegis Jul 08 18:55:59 [aegis] http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide, or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism Jul 08 18:56:08 and vi___ no, it's 5 Jul 08 18:56:11 nid0: the point is most of aegis is disabled or self-administered. As in you might not have a right, but are free to attach it to your package and then it juts works. Jul 08 18:56:13 much like on a full size keyboard, the space is actually more clicked on the left/right hand side than in the center of it Jul 08 18:56:24 DocScrutinizer, erm... you say that as if it has no bugs and other issues... Jul 08 18:56:43 ruskie, FYI DocScrutinizer hates aegis Jul 08 18:56:47 just saying Jul 08 18:56:56 MohammadAG: orly? Jul 08 18:56:57 I gathered as much from all the chatter over time Jul 08 18:57:05 ~dict scrutiniser Jul 08 18:57:07 Dictionary 'scrutiniser' a careful examiner; someone who inspects with great care Jul 08 18:57:08 achipa, and that will let you run your own kernel??? Jul 08 18:57:26 ruskie: the concept of aegis aka TP is pretty much about a chain of trust, and that can be broken then it's defect, but you impossibly can cheat on it Jul 08 18:57:47 oh? it has a TP module? Jul 08 18:58:01 yes Jul 08 18:58:09 OMAP *is* a TP module Jul 08 18:58:31 does iphone and 'droid make use of that as well? Jul 08 18:58:33 TP? Jul 08 18:58:57 "trusted" computing platform Jul 08 18:58:59 can n950 kernel source be compiled for n900? Jul 08 18:59:02 * vi___ ducks Jul 08 18:59:45 ah Jul 08 19:00:10 ds3, you knew... where you the user are the non-trusted party Jul 08 19:00:13 yes it can Jul 08 19:00:17 s/knew/know/ Jul 08 19:00:18 ruskie meant: ds3, you know... where you the user are the non-trusted party Jul 08 19:00:20 trusted computing platform, some words that on their own seem innocuos enough, however when combined...just like thai bride. Jul 08 19:00:58 MohammadAG: is there any benefit of doing this? Jul 08 19:02:11 was there any benefit of your question? :P Jul 08 19:02:39 hey MohammadAG Jul 08 19:02:50 hey hiemanshu Jul 08 19:02:59 vi___, I doubt it will boot, but it will compile Jul 08 19:03:08 MohammadAG: do you think nokia will ship our phone monday? Jul 08 19:03:29 ~dict nokia Jul 08 19:03:31 could not find definition for nokia Jul 08 19:03:39 ~dict ship Jul 08 19:03:41 Dictionary 'ship' (1 of 13): \Ship\, v. i. 1. To engage to serve on board of a vessel; as, to ship on a man-of-war. [1913 Webster] 2. To embark on a ship. --Wyclif (Acts xxviii. 11) [1913 Webster]. Jul 08 19:03:59 ~tell vi___ about query Jul 08 19:04:17 define nokia - company that consistently shoots self in foot when it comes to it's core users Jul 08 19:04:55 you won't find such definition in a Merian-Webster style of dictionary Jul 08 19:05:07 ruskie: more like 'company that cant even aim at its own foot while trying to shoot itself' Jul 08 19:05:09 I always say nokia as a company that shot itself through a bollock, then the foot, the inflted platform they were riding on. Jul 08 19:05:33 hiemanshu, yes Jul 08 19:05:46 can i also boot maemo from mmc? i only find documentations for meego Jul 08 19:05:55 MohammadAG: and you sayz I am optimistic? Jul 08 19:06:06 MohammadAG: will compcache make all my dreams come true? Jul 08 19:06:25 sid__: nice take - actually I pondered doing sth like that quite some time ago Jul 08 19:07:00 sid__: basically it *should* work after you fixed some hard references to physical device names in initscripts etc Jul 08 19:08:07 DocScrutinizer: why are transistors healthier than resistors? Jul 08 19:08:40 vi___: why are stupid questions more annoying than stupid answers? Jul 08 19:09:03 vi___: because transistors transit current (holding something) and resistors resist current (holding nothing) :P Jul 08 19:09:04 DocScrutinizer: probably due to their *active* lifestyle Jul 08 19:09:19 heh Jul 08 19:09:22 transistors are fortified with silicon and all the other essential elements whereas resistors are just a pile of carbon :P Jul 08 19:10:06 so I doubt transistors are any healthier - at least for humans Jul 08 19:10:35 DocScrutinizer: did you do the 'Will the N950 blend?' test Jul 08 19:10:38 ? Jul 08 19:10:43 no Jul 08 19:10:44 DocScrutinizer: it was a joke, the punchline was 3 lines up Jul 08 19:11:00 DocScrutinizer: or the flying test? Jul 08 19:11:50 I gonna do some really useful stuff now: go out have dinner Jul 08 19:12:20 as this starts to become a timesink Jul 08 19:12:47 eating is the biggest timesink known to man :P Jul 08 19:12:57 after sleeping :P Jul 08 19:17:02 hiemanshu: I thought that was TV or games Jul 08 19:17:27 hi.. knows someone of you how to search for rfcomm ports on bluetooth devices? Jul 08 19:17:28 achipa: TV? What is that? and gaming is for cooling down, and having fun :P Jul 08 19:17:45 * remote devices Jul 08 19:18:52 ruskie: and yes, you should be able to run your kernel. But the software you run will KNOW that, and what that implies is a whole different story Jul 08 19:19:37 how do I null a pointer when it's deleted? Jul 08 19:20:22 MohammadAG: use QPointer :) Jul 08 19:20:46 achipa, even if the kernel lacks aegis support? and anyth userspace aegis stuff is replaced by always on stubs? Jul 08 19:21:05 MohammadAG: pointer = 0 Jul 08 19:21:24 if it lacks aegis support, stuff that requires it will not work, as easy as that Jul 08 19:21:35 MohammadAG: dd if=/dev/null of=&pointer ?:P Jul 08 19:21:35 Anyone know if it's possible to paste in N950 MeeGo Terminal? Jul 08 19:22:11 just add a line of code of "*0;" and see what happens Jul 08 19:22:40 achipa, wow, never knew about that, thanks! Jul 08 19:22:48 ok, i just fucked up big time. I accidently locked my device -_-' Jul 08 19:22:53 Hmm, I can probably do it with a three way SSH tunnel Jul 08 19:22:56 I cannot remember the code Jul 08 19:23:16 achipa, I would assume aegis is a multi part thing... one is TP, another is a kernel bit and the final is a userspace part... if you swap out the kernel and userspace bits to always come up with the right answers to whatever needs it... it should bypass it... unless the loader is also doing ... Jul 08 19:23:18 is there a limit to the number of tries I have? Jul 08 19:23:22 ... something screwy... Jul 08 19:23:29 vi__: probably Jul 08 19:23:30 vi__, I thoguht it asks you about the code before locking Jul 08 19:23:34 ruskie: it's not a yes/no question Jul 08 19:23:40 aegis means signed binaries Jul 08 19:23:41 i'd go look at the n900 way of solving that and pray it works on the n9 Jul 08 19:23:56 if you lost the keys (trust chain) along the way, the binaries are worthless Jul 08 19:24:18 achipa, you still need something in userspace that would confirm the sigs Jul 08 19:24:20 don't you? Jul 08 19:24:23 no Jul 08 19:24:27 as said Jul 08 19:24:32 it's not confirming Jul 08 19:24:41 it decodes with the key and runs Jul 08 19:24:50 ahh so not SIGNED... but ENCRYPTED Jul 08 19:24:51 vi__: no limit Jul 08 19:24:57 kinda both Jul 08 19:25:03 a bit like GPG :) Jul 08 19:25:11 well encrypt would imply signage Jul 08 19:25:13 it's the app's choice Jul 08 19:25:32 i.e. it can be encrypted, but doesn't have to Jul 08 19:25:33 but this would generally f... up only binary-only things Jul 08 19:25:38 (ditto for signage) Jul 08 19:25:39 omg im such a fscking doofus Jul 08 19:26:00 vi__, 12345? Jul 08 19:26:12 no, I set the code myself Jul 08 19:26:15 ruskie: there might be a couple of binary things of interest in the firmware Jul 08 19:26:19 i know it is somthing to so with pi Jul 08 19:26:29 3.141592654858 Jul 08 19:26:32 or phi Jul 08 19:26:33 1 Jul 08 19:26:42 ~dict phi Jul 08 19:26:44 Dictionary 'phi' the 21st letter of the Greek alphabet Jul 08 19:26:51 goddamit Jul 08 19:27:09 achipa, well that depends if they will be encrypted or not Jul 08 19:27:45 ruskie: the point is - even if it's text, if it's signed, bash or whatever will refuse to run it Jul 08 19:28:01 unless you decrypt and design it Jul 08 19:28:38 ruskie: you can of course COPY the unencrypted stuff and then go about with it on your own kernel, but that doesn't quite cover much on a linux system Jul 08 19:29:41 ruskie: that might be tricky as the chain of trust, i.e. keys start on the hardware level Jul 08 19:29:57 achipa, see example: PS3 Jul 08 19:29:57 * ShadowJK tried typing on capacitive onscreen keyboard today Jul 08 19:30:11 ShadowJK, broke the screen or your fingers? Jul 08 19:30:43 anyone know the command to kill all cellular daemons? I'm sure I found one the other day on the forums Jul 08 19:30:47 1 out of 8 "test" came out right :) Jul 08 19:30:48 then someone said to use swype, and it suggested all my previous misspellings. Jul 08 19:30:51 ruskie: no technology will save you from idiocy or random luck, but AFAIK none of the breakage was a failure of the technology itself, but how it was applied Jul 08 19:31:05 ruskie, nope. Jul 08 19:31:23 achipa, as there are always humans involved in such designing... there is always a lucky break in the form of human error Jul 08 19:31:32 * ShadowJK does slightly better on N900 osk Jul 08 19:32:00 OMG Jul 08 19:32:01 OMG Jul 08 19:32:02 OMG Jul 08 19:32:10 31415 Jul 08 19:32:11 vi__: was that the passwd ? :) Jul 08 19:32:19 * ruskie simply dislikes all onscreen keyboards Jul 08 19:32:26 phew Jul 08 19:32:38 ruskie: which, in case of aegis, is always easily "fixed" with simple deployment of according new manifests from central repo Jul 08 19:33:03 ruskie: always is a slightly optimistic term IMHO Jul 08 19:36:22 so basically nokia first makes a very open device... followed by a completly crippled device after that... Jul 08 19:36:27 that really makes absolutely no sense Jul 08 19:36:50 they are pretty much the same AFAIK Jul 08 19:37:00 ruskie: the point of a chain-of-trust approach is you never really can fake/spoof an intact chain, so you maybe can hack one binary that's asking for a trusted environment so with your hack you may run a screen ripper nevertheless, but you never can hack the chain-of-trust in a way that this works automatically for all binaries and all sorts of requirements they check on start Jul 08 19:39:00 * ruskie follows a similar chain-of-trust... if developer or manufacturer can't trust me to not rip them off then I can't trust them with my money Jul 08 19:39:09 ruskie: and as said, there is a difference between CAN limit and DOES limit Jul 08 19:39:26 well then boycott linx Jul 08 19:39:27 linux Jul 08 19:39:31 because of selinux Jul 08 19:39:35 ruskie: also it's rather evident that it's never been Nokia's primary interest to build a max open device. To me it seems $*Nokia* modulo [Quim|Carsten|few_others] was mostly exploiting the openness of linux to create their own still rather locked up OS Jul 08 19:39:36 it doesn't trust you Jul 08 19:39:57 achipa, I somehow get the feeling it'll be a DOES not a CAN Jul 08 19:40:09 DocScrutinizer, so basically just like all the other manufacturers Jul 08 19:40:41 achipa, selinux is something the user controls(it's just to stupid to configure properly) Jul 08 19:41:11 aegis the user has no control and is controlled by... $third_party Jul 08 19:41:20 exactly Jul 08 19:41:24 nobody forces you to use aegis Jul 08 19:41:50 there is a choice, even if not a pleasant one Jul 08 19:42:13 and as said, aegis is really toned down compared to what it COULD do Jul 08 19:42:25 ruskie: you have one choice with Nokia's implementation, and that is to discard aegis, load your own kernel, and don't use meegoHarmattan basically Jul 08 19:42:39 really you consider not being able to run dmesg toned down? Jul 08 19:43:01 DocScrutinizer, will wait then to see what a community edition will come up with Jul 08 19:43:13 ruskie: yes Jul 08 19:43:36 ruskie: I've seen what it can do. dmesg is ridiculously unimportant in those terms Jul 08 19:44:50 it seems community is trying to use aegis or security framework as well, on CE. But hehe, luckily this never will pan out, as Nokia is holding the rootcert of OMAP and they won't sign the daily builds of CE kernels Jul 08 19:45:22 ruskie: plus, you seem to be mixing DEFAULT with POSSIBLE Jul 08 19:45:45 achipa, always Jul 08 19:45:59 I always assume that the worst of two possible choices will be the chosen one Jul 08 19:46:55 okay, so you expect dpkg and bash to be locked out by aegis ? Jul 08 19:47:01 (for example?) Jul 08 19:47:16 I even assumed the n900 would be more smartphone like... and in that case I was pleasantly surprised with the end result Jul 08 19:47:31 achipa, frankly I wouldn't be surprised Jul 08 19:47:40 ruskie: well, you are wrong Jul 08 19:47:49 well on the n950 sure... Jul 08 19:47:49 achipa: quite possible on later MP devices, in non-open (aka non-developer) mode Jul 08 19:47:58 I'm talking N9 Jul 08 19:48:04 ruskie: it's the same Jul 08 19:48:06 N9/N950 Jul 08 19:48:15 you can't claim that as there is no N9 out yet Jul 08 19:48:30 ruskie: I can Jul 08 19:48:34 The OS is broadly the same - the policies of aegis/... can change. Jul 08 19:49:07 that's the "nice" part about aegis. Plicies can change any time Jul 08 19:49:10 it will be the same Jul 08 19:49:20 achipa: Says who? Jul 08 19:49:42 hell, they could even change the policies especially particularly for you and your particular devcice Jul 08 19:50:37 and Nokia could send SWAT teams to raid you. Right. Healthy paranoia Jul 08 19:51:24 what paranoia? I say they *could* Jul 08 19:51:32 that's simple stating of facts Jul 08 19:51:57 sure, a car COULD run me over Jul 08 19:52:06 yes Jul 08 19:52:13 the lady in sodexo COULD poison me Jul 08 19:52:20 (in fact, they kinda do...) Jul 08 19:53:10 well, I think wikipedia has it all, in Jul 08 19:53:13 ~aegis Jul 08 19:53:14 it has been said that aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide, or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism Jul 08 19:54:09 if you want a safe execution environment... don't distribute your software Jul 08 19:54:13 keep it locked in a safe Jul 08 19:54:18 hard printed Jul 08 19:54:33 might be hard to sell in that case, tho Jul 08 19:55:02 ow you want to make money... here's a hint... don't treat your customers as thieves Jul 08 19:55:37 hey, you're preaching to the choir Jul 08 19:56:04 and I'm just happy and agree with SpeedEvil's nice wordminting: So it's kinda like a nuclear bomber that's ended up being deployed to keep kids off the lawn. ( http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-06-30.log.html#t2011-06-30T17:19:40 ) Jul 08 19:56:22 but see iOS. See Android LVL Jul 08 19:57:29 achipa, apples meet oranges meet grapes ;) Jul 08 19:57:39 the problem is that 3rd party devs DO bbelieve it helps them Jul 08 19:57:40 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5115609628556940516&q=trusted+computing Jul 08 19:57:49 I was more meaning that given the n9's lilkely market share. Jul 08 19:58:02 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5115609628556940516&q=trusted+computing# even Jul 08 19:58:16 Compared to the expected market share that it was going to be used on, when aegis was specified a couple of years ago Jul 08 19:58:23 maybe a little more Jul 08 19:58:35 SpeedEvil: which is the reason why it's nowhere as resptrictive it could be Jul 08 19:58:44 Indeed. Jul 08 20:01:01 does garage.maemo.org use a different account to talk.maemo.org ? Jul 08 20:01:09 achipa: (the problem is...) that with Aegis you hand the tools to those 3rd parties to take control over *your* device, basically. Yes yes I know you don't *have* to use thir products so they won't have control. But think about mediaplayers etc Jul 08 20:03:09 Atarii: it does Jul 08 20:03:30 thanks Jul 08 20:03:49 https://garage.maemo.org/account/register.php Jul 08 20:04:44 DocScrutinizer: and we run stuff from extras will full root rights... yes, I know, apples and oranges, but still Jul 08 20:05:04 Atarii: ^ Jul 08 20:05:15 yea, awesome thanks again :) Jul 08 20:06:28 np :) Jul 08 20:07:37 achipa: I wonder if flasher/NOLO/MOSLO will forbid "debranding" of carrier-locked devices, by not allowing to flash a clean original meego system to those devices Jul 08 20:10:11 DocScrutinizer: that I don't know... Jul 08 20:10:54 though I would assume carrier lock is on the cellular firmware level Jul 08 20:11:01 (which is a separate thing) Jul 08 20:12:27 yes, this is a separate thing I'm not talking about Jul 08 20:13:11 I'm just talking about replacing a 'custom' rootfs with a genuine Nokia meegoHarm rootfs Jul 08 20:13:37 cmt is a unrelated domain mostly Jul 08 20:13:50 yeah, dunno about that Jul 08 20:13:59 and SIMlocks are safe by design Jul 08 20:14:57 Nokia could do a great deal of confidence-building by opening up the flasher and NOLO Jul 08 20:15:18 sure, let's ask elop Jul 08 20:15:25 uhh... let's not go there, it will make my head hurt :) Jul 08 20:28:45 X-Fade, in case of you didn't see some have problem with extras-assistant : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1046874#post1046874 Jul 08 21:08:01 <[DarkGUNMAN]> is there a C compiler in the repos? Jul 08 21:08:28 <[DarkGUNMAN]> trying to build curlftpfs Jul 08 21:09:21 <[DarkGUNMAN]> installed make, but can't find gcc Jul 08 21:09:45 <[DarkGUNMAN]> hi lcuk Jul 08 21:12:27 [DarkGUNMAN]: installing gcc onto n900 is bad idea Jul 08 21:12:34 DarkGUNMAN, easy debian Jul 08 21:12:39 [DarkGUNMAN]: use scratchbox Jul 08 21:12:44 any bins compiled there should run on maemo Jul 08 21:12:48 [DarkGUNMAN]: but there is compiler in one of repos Jul 08 21:12:59 [DarkGUNMAN]: i think it's sdk repo or tools repo Jul 08 21:13:28 i found on device compilation to be a satisfying and simple thing for my apps :) Jul 08 21:13:42 workflow was the same whether I was using windows or linux Jul 08 21:13:50 * lcuk still does it to this day Jul 08 21:13:50 :) Jul 08 21:15:37 <[DarkGUNMAN]> thanks hurrian and jacekowski Jul 08 21:16:58 http://lmgtfy.com/?q=we+will+support+%23NokiaN9+for+years .... they are joking with us ? :) Jul 08 21:18:50 why's that suprising Jul 08 21:19:48 not much surprise, but only waiting/hoping for elop count down Jul 08 21:21:56 personally I havent seen any solid indicator that it's getting ditched and limited to one phone Jul 08 21:22:42 nid0, you mean the N-thousand times they repeated that it's the last meego device no matter how succcessful it is doesn't convince you? Jul 08 21:23:28 ruskie, i'd still like to see the source of that. i've heard it getting repeated and repeated and repeated constantly as hearsay but never seen an actual statement from nokia saying it. Jul 08 21:24:27 what I *have* seen however is a quote saying that no matter how succesful it is they wont be going back to it as their primary smartphone strategy Jul 08 21:24:40 the key point being that "primary" does not mean "only" Jul 08 21:24:51 http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/06/24/ceo.reemphasizes.windows.phone.focus/ Jul 08 21:24:56 i think the way is the goal Jul 08 21:25:07 And freedom is the way Jul 08 21:25:20 The Finnish Newspaper Helsingin Sanomat reports in an interview with Nokia's CEO Stephen Elop that it will also be the company's last. Nokia will be focusing all its efforts on the Windows Phone OS, no matter how successful the N9 might be. Jul 08 21:25:34 yea, wheres the quote? Jul 08 21:25:50 http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Nokia+CEO+Stephen+Elop+rules+out+possible+comeback+of+MeeGo/1135267179932 Jul 08 21:26:40 :( Jul 08 21:27:19 again, all I see him saying is regardless of the n9's success theyre keeping wp7 as their primary strategy and are sure it will be a success. Jul 08 21:27:24 primary does not mean only. Jul 08 21:27:58 well they did say before that meego is back to long term r&d Jul 08 21:27:58 hum does Nokia verify if n900 sended to repair are from ddp program ? Jul 08 21:28:03 nid0: I agree. Jul 08 21:28:37 most maemo/meego people have already left nokia Jul 08 21:29:39 petteri, really ? Jul 08 21:29:44 and there were lot of hires in the previous year Jul 08 21:30:11 Khertan: sadly so Jul 08 21:30:40 * Khertan break usb connector of his second n900 ... Jul 08 21:30:50 Khertan, how do you manage that? Jul 08 21:30:59 ruskie, no chance Jul 08 21:31:34 ruskie, was a preproduction model and a one from first batch Jul 08 21:31:37 Khertan: lol, broke it now? Jul 08 21:31:49 yep broke it one hours ago Jul 08 21:31:56 oh Jul 08 21:32:10 when i connect it to the charger it say charge, not charge, charge, not charge Jul 08 21:32:15 i remove the connector ... and pouf Jul 08 21:32:22 hmmm tons on n900 on sale... 150..500 eur from used to new in box Jul 08 21:32:31 there is a reason when I put my phone to charge, I never touch it unless I want to disconnect it, and transfers over wifi :P Jul 08 21:32:39 Khertan: i've broken mine last week Jul 08 21:32:55 jacekowski, did nokia care verify if it s a ddp device ? Jul 08 21:32:56 :pà Jul 08 21:32:57 :) Jul 08 21:33:11 i didn't do anything with it yet Jul 08 21:33:23 it broke on sunday and monday i was going to ireland Jul 08 21:33:28 i'm coming back tomorrow Jul 08 21:33:36 and then i'll deal with a problem Jul 08 21:33:46 Khertan: any idea how to get a button icon size to be the size of the actual button using QML? Jul 08 21:34:23 hiemanshu, i think i didn't understand the question Jul 08 21:34:24 :) Jul 08 21:35:08 Khertan: I have a 180x180 button, and a 180x180 icon, I want the icon to the image of button, but QML only shows it as a 40x40 icon Jul 08 21:35:36 hiemanshu, you use component ? Jul 08 21:36:29 else use anchors.fill: parent in the image Jul 08 21:36:56 look at my khteditor/qml/Button.qml in khteditor repository Jul 08 21:37:06 icon size follow button size Jul 08 21:56:46 hmm, i'm guessing the ones who bought DDP devices got real screwed Jul 08 21:59:47 * GeneralAntilles chuckles at http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=25473&postcount=84 Jul 08 22:02:03 * javispedro thinks the hypocrisy is going too far... Jul 08 22:03:46 admit it, this is a new toy =) Jul 08 22:04:05 huh maemo.org down? Jul 08 22:04:16 ah no .. connection hickup Jul 08 22:04:35 and someone is hoping that the games we make up while playing with this newfangled toy end up being up also being fun for a future customer.. Jul 08 22:05:22 (which is something I'd put my finger on, as it has happened in the past :) ) Jul 08 22:15:15 actually I think this thing is all but fun right now Jul 08 22:15:48 that's fun too =) Jul 08 22:29:30 * [DarkGUNMAN] forgot he'd created an sdk image to chroot into where gcc was already setup.... Jul 08 22:31:00 <[DarkGUNMAN]> christ... even the sdk image is asking for stuff.. now i need fuse Jul 08 22:31:47 anyone know if webkit on maemo can handle