**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 14 02:59:57 2011 Jul 14 07:49:57 Well. Moo all. Jul 14 07:50:05 Still no doughnut in the mail. Jul 14 07:50:08 ... Jul 14 07:53:56 ~seen lardman Jul 14 07:53:58 lardman <~lardman@138-38-179-9.docking.bath.ac.uk> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 15h 40m 14s ago, saying: 'deimos: thanks, I got a dhl tracking number after contacting Nokia, but the package had already been delivered (or attempted anyway) '. Jul 14 09:38:35 wow 23 hours and 3 minutes takes DHL come here :D Jul 14 09:39:13 a teletransport should be better :) Jul 14 09:41:25 *rage* Jul 14 09:41:27 :p Jul 14 09:45:09 :) Jul 14 09:46:04 Your order has been sent on 14.7.2011. Jul 14 09:46:07 Termana: finally :D Jul 14 09:46:44 * SpeedEvil sighs. Jul 14 09:46:58 moo Jul 14 09:47:05 meh Jul 14 09:47:18 baaah Jul 14 09:48:22 DocScrutinizer: now you can cancel your trip to HELL :D Jul 14 09:48:39 haha Jul 14 09:48:54 awesom Jul 14 09:49:05 yours just began ;-) Jul 14 09:49:16 ehe Jul 14 09:49:45 hah Jul 14 10:15:24 Morning, all Jul 14 10:16:03 Mprnign Jul 14 10:29:02 jeez.. is the front camera just bad for everyone else, or just me? yay! i can hardly see myself. wonder how one's supposed to skype like that Jul 14 10:32:08 it's very dark and bad Jul 14 10:43:21 morning Jul 14 10:44:14 Sicelo: I remember reading something about drivers getting even more borked in some PR 1.? upgrade Jul 14 10:44:29 Sicelo: not sure if thats the reason, but mine sucks as well Jul 14 11:00:34 why the f hasn't my device shipped yet Jul 14 11:01:11 *you are not worthy* ;) Jul 14 11:01:49 MohammadAG at least they didnt send your device to russia to ship it from there... just to add some extra 2500km :) Jul 14 11:02:14 gotta love such logistics Jul 14 11:02:20 yeap.. Jul 14 11:02:59 someone from italy got it in 23 hours, and they send mine to russia :) Jul 14 11:04:03 trx, it wasn't even sent yet Jul 14 11:04:07 still at new order Jul 14 11:04:14 i started to wonder if they even know where Serbia is :/ Jul 14 11:04:20 MohammadAG that sucks :/ Jul 14 11:04:28 trx, hehe Jul 14 11:17:16 moaning Jul 14 11:19:09 trx: MohammadAG: Nokia may have to sort really nasty details for shipping to some countries. It was virtually impossible to ship N900 to Paul in Moscow just for example, and it took weeks to try, try again, try a third time, and finally fail. Jul 14 11:20:02 DocScrutinizer, they actually decided not to use DHL to ship devices to Russia and Ukraine due to problems with DHL there. Jul 14 11:20:02 DocScrutinizer, they already shipped an N950 to me Jul 14 11:20:06 err, N900 Jul 14 11:21:00 so, did anyone port fbreader to harmattan yet? Jul 14 11:21:09 yeah, but you don't know how long *that* took them to prepare all the paperwork. And it happened during a period of low workload, which clearly doesn't apply to this time Jul 14 11:22:45 Screenshot tool for Harmattan: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=26042 Jul 14 11:23:09 SpeedEvil: ShadowJK: weird hw defect in http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1049858&postcount=43 ++ :: BSI value detected wrong :-o Jul 14 11:26:05 * mgedmin finally figures out that "Nokia Account" is the same as "Ovi Account" Jul 14 11:28:37 DocScrutinizer, one of the guys in that thread sent me a pm the other day, I didn't have time to read the thread then though Jul 14 11:28:53 mgedmin: indeed Jul 14 11:29:44 ShadowJK: so don't bother, it's lengthy and full of dead ends. But basically the finally spotted root cause in the post I linked Jul 14 11:31:27 estel made some rather odd assumptions about how bq27200 works, and there were a lot of interesting and some funny suggestions that all either were executed poorly or were dead ends from beginning. But they spotted the root cause, kudos for that Jul 14 11:32:12 btw, pnatd -> AT+CBC Jul 14 11:32:15 :D Jul 14 11:32:29 GOOOD point :-D Jul 14 11:32:39 time for 12648430 ☕ Jul 14 11:32:54 (and it returns different values from bq and bme) Jul 14 11:33:13 sure, it has "another bme" Jul 14 11:34:23 +CBC: 0,52 Jul 14 11:34:31 WTF?! .oO(???) Jul 14 11:34:53 whatever that's supposed to mean Jul 14 11:35:30 if that's charge state [0..1] then it's extremely off Jul 14 11:38:17 hm, no sudo on a N950? Jul 14 11:38:34 devel-su Jul 14 11:39:10 devel-su asks for a password Jul 14 11:39:18 rootme Jul 14 11:39:24 :) Jul 14 11:39:35 i agree Jul 14 11:39:42 hm, even root is not permitted to view dmesg Jul 14 11:39:58 yep Jul 14 11:40:54 at least there's /var/log/syslog Jul 14 11:45:02 netstat doesn't support -p Jul 14 11:45:23 hmm Jul 14 11:45:32 DocScrutinizer, 0 = not charging, 52% SOC Jul 14 11:45:36 hmm Jul 14 11:45:41 so how do I reset the lock code? :) Jul 14 11:46:07 ShadowJK: extremely off, device is charging since 12h Jul 14 11:46:22 I mean, the machine is not locked Jul 14 11:46:27 but I seem to have forgotten my lock code Jul 14 11:46:30 DocScrutinizer, lol Jul 14 11:46:38 DocScrutinizer, and if you remove charger? Jul 14 11:46:45 mompls Jul 14 11:46:52 mom ? Jul 14 11:46:54 * DocScrutinizer heads to other room Jul 14 11:47:00 hey hey Jul 14 11:47:00 moment Jul 14 11:47:01 people Jul 14 11:47:27 ~mompls Jul 14 11:47:33 hmmm Jul 14 11:47:42 ~mompl Jul 14 11:47:43 somebody said mompl was a stupid short form for "moment please" Jul 14 11:48:47 ShadowJK: no change Jul 14 11:49:05 aw Jul 14 11:49:39 0,35 on mine (60% according to bq) Jul 14 11:49:44 did a 20s call ->same Jul 14 11:49:58 it's hard to adjust to the CTRL key being on the opposite side of the keyboard, compared to a N900 Jul 14 11:50:17 mgedmin: indeed Jul 14 11:50:40 also some of the symbols again moved to wierd places Jul 14 11:50:49 also punctuation marks Jul 14 11:51:07 oh cool < and > are now directly inputable! Jul 14 11:51:13 explains why I find the location of / unusual Jul 14 11:51:40 I honestly want to make the kbd layouter type for his life, with blinded eyes Jul 14 11:52:30 well, we won't worry about all that, on N9 ;-P Jul 14 11:52:48 a blind typing contest on a N9 would be very interesting Jul 14 11:53:12 hmm, does the N950 package have a wall charger? Jul 14 11:53:13 my access point went crazy, I think Jul 14 11:53:26 I wonder if that's a exclusive N950 topic and thus a topic for #harmattan rather Jul 14 11:53:31 MohammadAG, no !!!! Jul 14 11:53:32 MohammadAG, no, just a micro-USB cable Jul 14 11:53:35 MohammadAG: nope Jul 14 11:53:43 there's a #harmattan? Jul 14 11:53:57 I'm assuming the N900's charger works? Jul 14 11:54:03 yup Jul 14 11:54:14 flawlessly Jul 14 11:54:26 DocScrutinizer, did u tried that = I don't want to burn it the 1st day :) Jul 14 11:54:37 = = ? Jul 14 11:54:42 I'm doing that all the time Jul 14 11:54:51 technically it should work but I was wondering if it needs some more non standard shorting Jul 14 11:55:31 I've two 12V to USB car adapters; neither of those charges my N900 Jul 14 11:55:34 no, the standard nonstandard shorting is just fine, though yet untested if needed at all Jul 14 11:55:43 odd Jul 14 11:55:53 yoh, SpeedEvil Jul 14 11:56:06 (bsi) Jul 14 11:56:11 :nod: Jul 14 11:56:40 * DocScrutinizer cranks up the schematics pdf another time Jul 14 11:56:41 the n900 charger has an output of 5V and 1200 mA Jul 14 11:58:20 deimos: so what? Jul 14 11:58:36 no, the standard nonstandard shorting is just fine <-- epic sentence Jul 14 11:59:04 i thought it was standard shorting Jul 14 11:59:27 SpeedEvil: BSI is pullup 120k to +2V5, so I gather the BSI R in battery is to GNS. What bothers me is: bat GND isn't digital GND Jul 14 11:59:27 DocScrutinizer, for checking the usb car adapters Jul 14 11:59:41 ? Jul 14 11:59:42 surely they have different mA Jul 14 11:59:54 ShadowJK: kinda is, for Nokia at least Jul 14 12:00:17 Atleast at the time it was in the specs :) Jul 14 12:00:36 deimos, if it's more than 350mA or so it'll work Jul 14 12:00:38 deimos: and your average car battery has 12V 250A Jul 14 12:00:57 doesn't mean it burns your car stereo that needs 12V@~2A Jul 14 12:02:27 ShadowJK, and why chargers doesn't work ? Jul 14 12:02:48 nfc Jul 14 12:02:49 too low power? Jul 14 12:02:51 lack of patience? Jul 14 12:03:30 maybe intelliget chargers with face recon ? :) Jul 14 12:03:36 my sister tried to charge her Sony Xperia with one of those, and it worked, but only after a couple of minutes Jul 14 12:03:38 deimos, lots of shitty car chargers that only have a usb port on them lack the connection between D+ and D- Jul 14 12:03:44 I never waited a couple of minutes, gave up after maybe 20 seconds Jul 14 12:04:02 otoh an official Nokia adapter with the thin plug -> microusb converter works at once Jul 14 12:04:13 ShadowJK: yup exactly Jul 14 12:04:20 wallwart chargers as well Jul 14 12:05:08 mgedmin: (thin plug -> microusb converter) CA-146A? Jul 14 12:05:28 probably, I never keep track of those CA-xxx names Jul 14 12:05:30 lemme google Jul 14 12:05:52 the one with the 3.5 and the 5mm barrel hole? Jul 14 12:06:03 mgedmin: ^^^ Jul 14 12:06:14 yes Jul 14 12:06:19 yup Jul 14 12:06:35 the one that's known to overheat and partially melt in certain occasions :) Jul 14 12:06:59 that's basically a whole autonomous charger circuit with a rather andom power supply via those barrel holes Jul 14 12:07:56 it works from ~3.6V .. some 6 or 8V without too much problems Jul 14 12:08:15 and surely has the Nokia mandatory D+- short Jul 14 12:09:08 that could explain everything Jul 14 12:09:30 I'd optimistically assumed the D+- short was in an official USB charger spec, and all modern car adapters would have it Jul 14 12:09:37 * DocScrutinizer digs thru his nest of cables and adaptors, to find a way to plug N950 to 5V *without* the D+- short Jul 14 12:10:01 * mgedmin is trying to ssh into his N950 but is stumped by a password prompt Jul 14 12:10:21 mgedmin: it *is* a part of official specs - amost no device supports it though Jul 14 12:10:38 root rootme Jul 14 12:10:57 foudn out the lock code Jul 14 12:10:58 :) Jul 14 12:11:05 but with my memory not with the trick in TMO Jul 14 12:11:15 seems the code s no longer stored in mtd1 ? Jul 14 12:11:21 it is Jul 14 12:11:34 afaik Jul 14 12:11:51 interesting Jul 14 12:11:52 I can ssh into 950 ! Jul 14 12:11:54 * sivang retires Jul 14 12:11:58 deimos: sure you can Jul 14 12:12:04 deimos: why would not you be able to? Jul 14 12:12:07 it is a Maemo, after all Jul 14 12:12:13 or a Harmattan for that matter Jul 14 12:12:41 passwd -u user -> now I can ssh with my pubkey Jul 14 12:12:57 why would not yuou? Jul 14 12:13:05 I wonder if that also leaves a hole where I can ssh in with no password or anything... Jul 14 12:13:17 /etc/passwd has 'user::' instead of 'user:*:' that I expected Jul 14 12:13:24 interesting Jul 14 12:13:32 now it works, after I put the default lock code back Jul 14 12:13:37 but befre that it was my social security number Jul 14 12:13:43 and it did not show me the code wth the trick here: Jul 14 12:13:52 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37808&page=3 Jul 14 12:13:52 no, blank passwords do not work, *whew* Jul 14 12:14:00 they are not blank! Jul 14 12:14:00 :) Jul 14 12:14:03 hey mgedmin , btw Jul 14 12:14:05 beena while Jul 14 12:14:10 * sivang wish for a N9 Jul 14 12:14:11 err Jul 14 12:14:12 N950 Jul 14 12:14:28 mgedmin: sudo ssh user@localhost Jul 14 12:14:57 or rather devel-su; ssh user@loacalhost Jul 14 12:15:26 nm Jul 14 12:15:39 devel-su ? Jul 14 12:15:41 hrm Jul 14 12:15:44 what's that? Jul 14 12:15:51 is there a channel for N950? Jul 14 12:15:57 #harmattan Jul 14 12:15:58 the aegis flavour of su Jul 14 12:16:08 heh Jul 14 12:16:09 why not `devrootsh`? Jul 14 12:16:11 gosh Jul 14 12:16:19 doese it work in Mameo as well? Jul 14 12:16:22 (N900) Jul 14 12:16:40 DocScrutinizer, mmm mmm aegis flavour. my favourite Jul 14 12:17:24 Termana: bah Jul 14 12:21:35 off topic: does anybody know of a way to disbale the sticky behaviour of alt-key for kbd-shortcuts, i.e. make alt;d;b != alt+(d;b), for KDE? Jul 14 12:22:07 sometimes I hit ALT and then type ahead. FUN :-/ Randomthings happen Jul 14 12:22:24 hmm, doesn't happen here Jul 14 12:24:14 tmo seems to be discussing a split from nokia Jul 14 12:24:24 1/2 of the thread is discussing a name Jul 14 12:27:16 a what? Jul 14 12:27:45 are they aware of that talk.maemo.org isn't run by Nokia.. Jul 14 12:47:12 new laptop, need to install Linux now, what do people recommend? Jul 14 12:47:36 bearing in mind it's a Dell Latitude and that I'm wanting to do dev for the N900 + Harmattan + Meego Jul 14 12:49:01 debian! Jul 14 12:49:06 hmm..... Jul 14 12:49:35 DEBIAN! Jul 14 12:49:41 * lardman wonders if selecting OpenSUSE based on the logo is justifiable ;) Jul 14 12:50:02 lardman: for harmattan dev you need ubuntu, for meego dev you need suse. Easy, isn't it? ;-P Jul 14 12:50:04 don't you dare Jul 14 12:50:27 Docscrutinizer: quite Jul 14 12:51:47 I don't need to use OpenSUSE for Meego though do I? I thought there were Ubuntu packages too? Jul 14 12:52:01 given the fact I managed to install maemo SB SDK on suse, I can't really recommend ubuntu Jul 14 12:52:30 I'm getting annoyed with Ubuntu's multiscreen support, but that is not an issue for a laptop Jul 14 12:52:44 suse is rpm based? Jul 14 12:52:48 yes Jul 14 12:52:59 though you don't care Jul 14 12:53:24 I know the debian tools though, but I guess it will force me to learn something new and useful for meego Jul 14 12:53:32 there are packages for ubuntu 10.10 not yet for 11.04, but you ca install all toolchains needed in QtSDK whatever linux distro you use Jul 14 12:53:54 for suse you don't learn anything new, as you use yast package manager Jul 14 12:54:02 I need a builder though as not all my stuff is Qt based Jul 14 12:54:43 DocScrutinizer: what about the maemo sdk, any issues there? Jul 14 12:55:10 lardman, there is not the harmattan toolchain Jul 14 12:55:13 as mentioned I managed to install the maemo ( /harmattan) SDK on suse, and it's working ok there Jul 14 12:56:28 for harmattan there's a update that probably "just installs" on existing SB. The flasher-3.5.11 exists in two .deb for now, but no tarball Jul 14 12:56:54 I guess I can extract and install the binary from .deb manually, or use alien or what it's called Jul 14 12:57:19 thanks Doc Jul 14 12:57:23 I'll give it a go Jul 14 12:57:24 yw Jul 14 12:57:29 one last Q Jul 14 12:57:47 laptop has Windows installed, presumably the installer will alter the partiton sizes, etc., for me as Ubuntu would Jul 14 12:58:03 yes Jul 14 12:58:09 no problem Jul 14 12:58:28 cool, one must check as some installation media (Meego netbook, hint hint) don't offer such options ;) Jul 14 12:59:14 hmm, only 4.8MB/sec download Jul 14 12:59:30 ah better, up to 6.8MB/s Jul 14 13:00:05 * lardman goes to collect laptop in expectation that suse DVD will be downloaded when he gets back in a few min Jul 14 13:01:25 lardman: take all my prev staements with a grain of salt, as I hate ubuntu - it's too much like windows and too poorly "integrated" (whatever that means). MAybe you are better off with ubuntu nevertheless if you don't feel like that - esp I don't think suse is mandatory for meego development Jul 14 13:02:02 that's not reverting my prev advice, but to enable you to make your own decision Jul 14 13:02:33 Strange how I only have 2G connection :/ Jul 14 13:04:01 alterego: where, why, on what? Jul 14 13:05:10 2G, at home, on my N950 Jul 14 13:05:19 I should get 3G .. Jul 14 13:08:03 alterego: sounds like you better post those random N950 bits on #harmattan , as then there won't be such questions as mine Jul 14 13:11:06 DocScrutinizer: thanks for the caveats, another of my office workers is happy with suse, and it also has a nice logo so I'll give it a go :) Jul 14 13:12:09 I think suse is pretty good Jul 14 13:13:32 just one bad thing: you forget how to do things like user account management, firewall admin, all that stuff the classic cmdline way. Yast is too easy so you just use it and forget about adduser and all that Jul 14 13:14:42 * lardman wonders what a 512e hdd is Jul 14 13:17:03 ah, 4KB sectors but it pretends to have 512B sectors Jul 14 13:31:51 eeeew that crap Jul 14 13:45:38 GAN900 / GeneralAntilles: shipped :P Jul 14 13:50:50 GeneralAntilles: sent yet? Jul 14 13:50:55 rm_work: shipped today? Jul 14 13:51:05 hiemanshu: yes, though no DHL email yet Jul 14 13:51:17 at 12:00 finnish time Jul 14 13:51:27 14.7.2011 12:44 Jul 14 13:51:31 rm_work: ah, I think they will give you the DHL number around 6-ish .fi time Jul 14 13:51:42 what time is it there now Jul 14 13:52:22 rm_work: around 4:45 Jul 14 14:01:51 rm_work: you might want to /join #harmattan Jul 14 14:02:39 rm_work: FYI: it seems DHL can not send mail to anybody, as they don't even know your email addr. The mail with tracking number always is sent by xxx.yyy@nokia.com Jul 14 14:03:55 DocScrutinizer: >_> #harmattan... >_> Jul 14 14:04:22 Docscrutinizer: and well, yes, by "DHL email" i just meant the email with the DHL tracking info, whoever it is from Jul 14 14:05:31 DocScrutinizer: I expect that arrives last .fi time right? can you give me the time you got yours? Jul 14 14:05:37 so we know when to send an email Jul 14 14:06:28 hiemanshu: I'm discussing N950 specific topics on #harmattan Jul 14 14:07:24 the S/N for "normal" N900 (and diablo...) users on this chan is poor enough since a week Jul 14 14:07:51 sigh Jul 14 14:07:56 not shipped yet for me Jul 14 14:34:10 I got the tracking email at around 8:30 EST Jul 14 15:40:49 rm_work, yes. Jul 14 16:05:17 Is there no photo uploading tool to Gallery2 in maemo ? Jul 14 16:09:33 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/g2-sharing Jul 14 16:12:28 ok Jul 14 16:19:10 yeah got my shipping email ... erm, apparently earlier somehow Jul 14 16:19:12 but missed it Jul 14 16:19:14 strange Jul 14 16:23:04 rm_work: you got yours? Jul 14 16:23:09 * hiemanshu hasn't got one yet Jul 14 16:23:17 yeah with DHL tracking number Jul 14 16:23:24 got it like 4 hours ago almost Jul 14 16:23:25 nothing for me yet Jul 14 16:23:29 apparently it went to a different email Jul 14 16:23:35 i have some sort of mismatch going on Jul 14 16:23:49 hah Jul 14 16:24:24 I haven't got mine, I shoudl email and ask for one Jul 14 16:24:42 order sent email: 4:45am my time; tracking DHL email: 7:38am my time Jul 14 16:24:50 just wait a bit i'd say Jul 14 16:25:21 interesting tho, i have no idea estimated delivery time Jul 14 16:25:44 GAN900: yes to -- yours shipped? Jul 14 16:26:32 rm_work: and your current time? Jul 14 16:26:59 i'm CDT Jul 14 16:27:04 it's 11:22am right now Jul 14 16:27:09 ah ok Jul 14 16:27:29 I'll need it to intercept the package as I am in the middle of moving houses Jul 14 16:28:14 lol Jul 14 16:28:22 rm_work, yes. Jul 14 16:29:14 GAN900: cool, wonder if all of them have shipped now? this would be the "one week" period they stated Jul 14 16:29:22 anyone's order not ship yet? Jul 14 16:29:49 rm_work: Termana for example Jul 14 16:29:55 hrm ok Jul 14 16:33:10 bbl, lunch :P Jul 14 16:34:40 Any 3D-modelling guru's in here? :P Jul 14 16:34:45 gurus* Jul 14 16:35:22 with maya ? Jul 14 16:35:33 anything :) Jul 14 16:35:49 anything that's able to produce a landscape :) Jul 14 16:36:11 I used a lot maya :) Jul 14 16:36:46 deimos: have some free time to help with OSS project? :) Jul 14 16:37:35 well, now I have to study QML :) , but I can swap here and there :) Jul 14 16:47:42 * mgedmin appreciated the ability to ask for SMS announcements about various DHL delivery checkpoints Jul 14 16:52:47 http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/07/fling-mini-joystick-for-smartphones-1310589283.jpg Jul 14 16:52:50 Yeaaaah Jul 14 16:56:27 lol Jul 14 16:58:44 It's amazing the crap people churn out for iOS devices. Jul 14 17:01:44 lol general.... Jul 14 17:07:40 the *nix/Windows security model is flawed Jul 14 18:26:23 "Living above the 50N latitude, it is amusing to observe the next developing pandemia of cholera online..." Jul 14 18:27:28 achipa, are there any Qt Quick components for Fremantle? Jul 14 18:28:28 Venemo: I am almost positive there aren't any right now Jul 14 18:28:39 Venemo: nope Jul 14 18:28:42 But I would be interested in knowing if there are any that will be forthcoming Jul 14 18:28:49 achipa: Do you know if there are any plans? Jul 14 18:28:52 (if you mean Fremantle-style components) Jul 14 18:29:13 fiferboy: no plans, Fremantle is dead as a doornail Jul 14 18:29:46 I guess the community could step in, though Jul 14 18:29:47 achipa, any components at all? maybe desktop components would work on it? Jul 14 18:29:58 sure, the custom branch should work Jul 14 18:30:05 I think kate or antonio packaged it Jul 14 18:30:37 achipa: Is that branch likely to be officially supported over time? Jul 14 18:30:44 I think it is just experimental currently Jul 14 18:30:57 fiferboy: could, and for most stuff, it would be fairly easy, except for maybe the fancy pickers... Jul 14 18:31:05 so, for the time being, I may have to keep the QWidget-based GUI for Fremantle? Jul 14 18:31:22 fiferboy: not sure, ask the trolls Jul 14 18:31:35 but the point is, there is not really such a thing as officially supported Jul 14 18:31:38 achipa: Yeah, but pickers are actually easier to implement in QML than Qt (in my experience) Jul 14 18:31:43 achipa: fremantle is sucked out for profit, now it may start the real life Jul 14 18:32:09 lol DocScrutinizer Jul 14 18:32:20 fiferboy: yes, they were HARD to implement in Qt. QML is a lot easier, but still not trivial, especially in thing which require hildon integration Jul 14 18:32:22 even while Nokia kept the parts they tought will stop this Jul 14 18:32:31 fiferboy: read, the tough part is the HIM stuff Jul 14 18:33:04 achipa: I don't doubt that. I never dug around in the HIM/Qt interaction code Jul 14 18:34:51 fiferboy: and the thing is that most of the effects (background blur, etc) is done on the WM level (again, something that would be something trivial with a shadereffect, but if you have to go to the system, ugh) Jul 14 18:36:09 achipa: fremantle is linux, linux is FOSS. You *never* know when a FOSS project is dead - definitely it isn't as long as hundered contribute and thousands or even 100.000s use it Jul 14 18:36:09 so for stuff like pushbuttons, lists, etc, shouldn't be hard, but dialogs, pickers, input method funk... that's a different story Jul 14 18:37:14 and even while everybody incl Nokia might think fremantle is owned by Nokia, in fact it is *not* Jul 14 18:37:17 DocScrutinizer: the only hardware capable running is not produced for months now Jul 14 18:37:34 sure, cordia et al, but then we're not talking about Fremantle Jul 14 18:37:42 achipa: I was around the fringes of the original community Qt port, and the styling did look pretty easy (IIRC just pulled from the Gtk stlye) but there was a lot of system witchcraft that happened too Jul 14 18:39:24 fiferboy: if you mean the Diablo 4.5 port, yeah, but in those days (functionally) it wasn't as far from the desktop (i.e. menus, status bars, etc)... Jul 14 18:39:31 so what? the VW Kaefer isn't built anymore since what? 30 years? only in Mexico a decade longer? I bet you will hear loud protest calling the community around it dead Jul 14 18:39:58 achipa: True Jul 14 18:40:20 fiferboy: heya :) Jul 14 18:40:33 fiferboy: already got the device? :P Jul 14 18:40:34 wazd_: Hi, how's things? Jul 14 18:40:46 wazd_: No, it is leaving Finland around now Jul 14 18:40:49 DocScrutinizer: sure, it's just that I don't see the manpower Jul 14 18:40:50 fiferboy: sad, thanks to russian customs :) Jul 14 18:41:24 wazd_: Has yours been confiscated? Jul 14 18:41:55 fiferboy: no, but to avoid it Nokia had to send it with someone Jul 14 18:41:57 DocScrutinizer: porting Qt4.7 to Diablo was trivial. Nobody did it. Fremantle is still on 4.7.0, even with the CSSU... and if you can't must the community support for something as important as Qt, then I'm somewhat skeptical of the viability... Jul 14 18:42:05 fiferboy: so it's gonnabe a looong journey :) Jul 14 18:42:22 achipa: I'm criticizing the diction. You may say fremantle won't have a next official release version anytime (soon). It's definitely not dead (yet) though Jul 14 18:42:33 wazd_: coming on raindeer-sleds from Finland ? :) Jul 14 18:42:38 wazd_: Oh yeah, I heard they were being "hard couriered" to Russia Jul 14 18:42:49 achipa: and it hurts those who care hearing such statements Jul 14 18:42:52 DocScrutinizer: okay, okay, let's not get bogged down in terminology Jul 14 18:42:59 SORRY :) Jul 14 18:43:03 nhf Jul 14 18:43:50 achipa: yep, something like that :) Jul 14 18:44:11 and tbh I don't see any successor to take over Jul 14 18:45:00 I don't think harmattan will have appeal to the same target group Jul 14 18:45:20 harmattan is... special Jul 14 18:45:40 meegoCE is yet to get on par, usability wise Jul 14 18:45:55 no matter on which handheld Jul 14 18:46:20 the question is of course what do you consider the "essence" of Fremantle Jul 14 18:46:42 the desktop feeling in a nutshell Jul 14 18:46:48 i.e. is it Hildon, the desktop, etc Jul 14 18:47:29 the idea that I *could* run KDE on that thing any time Jul 14 18:48:00 well... dunno. I would say that's quite subjective, I didn't find harmattan that far in that regard (if a little more attention was put in the landscape stuff) Jul 14 18:48:44 then again, I found Fremantle's three-layer navigation quite confusing in the beginning Jul 14 18:48:45 you *could* probably run KDE on harmattan as well Jul 14 18:48:52 starts with the missing buttons of *any* kind, and the implications this has on the entire UX design Jul 14 18:49:27 oh, we hatesss buttonssss :) Jul 14 18:49:46 Honestly, I'm surprised the volume button(s) survived Jul 14 18:49:52 indeed Jul 14 18:50:08 butchering the camera key made me sad panda :( Jul 14 18:50:33 know what? all my nightshots with the cam were crap - shakey due to taping the screen Jul 14 18:50:43 hahahaha Jul 14 18:50:59 DocScrutinizer: not disagreeing :) Jul 14 18:51:19 personally I would love to have the same delay option my cam has - press +2 sec Jul 14 18:51:29 and that's not rocket science Jul 14 18:51:57