**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 27 02:59:57 2011 Jul 27 03:06:21 I want people aware of good pygame and port to N900... Jul 27 03:53:08 Hey guys, what's new in terms of the next n900 and its openness? Jul 27 03:53:38 I'm tired of compromising so much for openness, without actually having openness Jul 27 03:53:40 next n900 not for sale Jul 27 03:53:50 yeah, the dev version Jul 27 03:53:52 right? Jul 27 03:54:29 so nvm, it end up with nobody own it - they all placed in Nokia history museum Jul 27 03:55:04 updateme: the current user will have to send them back to Nokia if I read the right Article Jul 27 03:55:47 yeah, but the device they're releasing to everyone won't be... But I hear it doesn't have a keyboard Jul 27 03:57:15 no keyboard on N9 but bluetooth keyboard still can be used. Jul 27 03:57:37 that sucks Jul 27 03:58:03 It uses MeeGo, right? Jul 27 03:58:09 Which means it isn't very open, once again? Jul 27 04:00:49 How much OpenNess can you expect from an already existing large international corporation ? Jul 27 04:01:29 I don't know. I'm only trying to compare the openness of meego to maemo, I guess Jul 27 04:01:54 harmattan and openness? Jul 27 04:01:55 lol Jul 27 04:01:57 Since there were so many things with dampered functionality, like the address book and calendar in maemo Jul 27 04:02:43 ug Jul 27 04:02:55 jiero, you can keep the device if you want to Jul 27 04:02:58 well when will there be a powerful phone that runs shit as open as a real OS Jul 27 04:03:14 updateme, aava phone Jul 27 04:03:47 again, we need the community to start our own "GTA04" Jul 27 04:04:00 newer board for the RX-51 Jul 27 04:04:05 let's call it the RX-52 Jul 27 04:04:28 hardware is hard (no pun), which helped openmoko to fail Jul 27 04:04:31 the only problem would be design, manufacture and distribution Jul 27 04:04:47 but if we can get a mass produced powerful device, which allowed for a non-crippled OS to run, then we can win Jul 27 04:04:57 oh, and it would cost $$$ to produce boards Jul 27 04:04:58 lol @ "the only problem" Jul 27 04:05:30 well I don't know anything about the Aava Jul 27 04:05:43 updateme, we can probably pay someone to make the PCB design files, and have some chinese factory churn the boards out Jul 27 04:06:03 do note that we'll have a hard time acquiring OMAP3630 parts Jul 27 04:06:19 likely need to buy them in lots of >1000 Jul 27 04:06:30 I know some people who have done startups with their own touch screen devices succesffuly Jul 27 04:06:42 so unless we get ALL of TMO together, we're pretty stuck in the mud Jul 27 04:06:48 But it seems there is a bottleneck other than hardware Jul 27 04:07:01 Like support, maybe Jul 27 04:07:17 "yeah, Tmo, I've a nokia phone" "okay no problem, here's a sim" ....etc Jul 27 04:07:17 good news though, as omap is very opensource friendly Jul 27 04:07:19 xloader etc are freely available Jul 27 04:07:33 oh right, the problem would be in a baseband Jul 27 04:07:51 transferring a nokia BB5 chip would be illegal wrt what IMEI really is Jul 27 04:08:18 so Jul 27 04:08:25 updateme, LOL SUPPORT Jul 27 04:08:32 yeah Jul 27 04:08:42 tmo's suddenly supporting devices not made by nokia Jul 27 04:08:52 anyways, that's beside the point Jul 27 04:09:02 What is the point? Jul 27 04:09:08 making the board Jul 27 04:09:19 That doesn't seem like the bottleneck Jul 27 04:09:26 then what is? Jul 27 04:09:50 It seems like it would be easier to support and develop an OSS solution for the most powerful established phone/hardware out there already Jul 27 04:09:54 instead of trying to build one from scratch Jul 27 04:10:14 since they put their R&D into it, if it is open enough, then can't it be "hi-jacked"? Jul 27 04:10:31 you mean linux? Jul 27 04:10:37 see meego Jul 27 04:10:40 +cordia Jul 27 04:10:51 Spell it out please Jul 27 04:10:59 MeeGo CE + Cordia UX Jul 27 04:11:06 looks like Fremantly Jul 27 04:11:09 *Fremantle Jul 27 04:11:23 the only thing that makes the N900 shine is the multitasking Jul 27 04:11:29 so why not take just that? Jul 27 04:11:55 Take the n900? Jul 27 04:11:58 I am/have one Jul 27 04:12:08 take the user interface of the N900 Jul 27 04:12:19 also known as fremantle's Hildon Jul 27 04:12:36 put it on a linux distro with glibc and gtk+ Jul 27 04:12:52 there, no more nokia dependency, plus we can use it on any phone Jul 27 04:13:05 the problem is, what phones properly support meego Jul 27 04:13:08 And it would have enough support to be a full smartphone OS on the n900 before the entire userbase starts using/supporting a new phone? Jul 27 04:13:32 I have a feeling I'd rather use the n900 with meego than aara Jul 27 04:14:14 updateme, would meego CE have enough support -- a widely accepted Fremantle replacement before only 2 N900s on Earth still work? Jul 27 04:14:31 face it, a replacement OS is still just a replacement OS Jul 27 04:14:39 the HTC HD2 is the ONLY exception to that rule Jul 27 04:15:00 So what are you saying? Jul 27 04:15:05 You support my argument and not yours? Jul 27 04:15:06 lol Jul 27 04:15:19 uh wut? Jul 27 04:15:21 That's what I was hinting at - just a replacement OS Jul 27 04:15:25 So you're in agreement Jul 27 04:15:47 the problem is, what phones properly support meego Jul 27 04:16:04 i think we were agreeing before a slight language slip ;) Jul 27 04:16:20 i mean, who's going to make a meego phone? Jul 27 04:16:21 hmm Jul 27 04:16:29 the world is on Android Jul 27 04:16:40 there's a massive ecosystem there Jul 27 04:16:50 indeed Jul 27 04:16:59 N900 has advantages still Jul 27 04:17:11 N900 has it's advantages for US people Jul 27 04:17:15 some of them due to its openness, but at the same time is hurt significantly by not being open enough Jul 27 04:17:19 not the other plebians Jul 27 04:17:30 at first I read "united states" people Jul 27 04:17:31 lol Jul 27 04:17:38 a lot of people still treat their shiny new droid devices as toys Jul 27 04:17:51 what do we do with our devices? Jul 27 04:17:54 I treat my n900 as an expensive toy Jul 27 04:17:55 massive disconnect there Jul 27 04:18:00 haha Jul 27 04:18:02 yeah, I agree Jul 27 04:18:10 again, Mobile Computer vs Smartphone Jul 27 04:18:24 there is a difference Jul 27 04:18:32 but the gap seems small enough to close without much $$$ Jul 27 04:18:51 like how much it is worth closing vs how much it costs to close Jul 27 04:18:52 updateme, we'll never know Jul 27 04:19:01 I'm an optimist I guess Jul 27 04:19:06 the time that N900 was being sold, the N97 was being promoted out the wazoo Jul 27 04:20:00 I just want an n900v2 Jul 27 04:20:08 with a fully open OS Jul 27 04:20:17 So I can go in and change senseless shit Jul 27 04:20:44 Why is fully open so important? Jul 27 04:20:49 It isn't Jul 27 04:21:00 just open enough to have options Jul 27 04:21:07 the fact that the N95 didnt ship with Maemo proves that Nokia's an old man, afraid to take a leap of faith, to become young once more Jul 27 04:21:11 Unfortunatly, carriers and content partners HATE openness on phones Jul 27 04:21:17 and now, they're filled with regret Jul 27 04:21:17 I agree that it is nice for software to be open so that you can fix those stupid annoyances. Jul 27 04:21:57 maemo would keep up better for us if it were open Jul 27 04:21:59 Like TomTom car navigators that have shitloads of UI stupidity (mostly in the form of completely useless confirmation prompts) that would be trivial to remove if you had the source code. Jul 27 04:22:04 fixing all the things that each of us care about Jul 27 04:22:39 from a technical standpoint, the N95(NAM) would've easily handled OS2007 Jul 27 04:22:53 Or if the n900 were more open we could sort out more issues with the GPS functionality and replce our TomToms Jul 27 04:23:17 updateme, GPS functionality is mostly because of the crappy antenna Jul 27 04:23:17 Hurrian: although, it is pretty slow to boot and such on the n900 Jul 27 04:23:27 Has anyone modded it? Jul 27 04:23:34 I didn't know that *interested* Jul 27 04:23:44 updateme, only did external GPS mod on N95 Jul 27 04:23:52 Also, I think, because it doesn't have a compass Jul 27 04:23:58 so directionality doesn't work so well Jul 27 04:24:10 Btw, isn't N950 supposed to have a compass? Jul 27 04:24:25 Doesn't seem to be working in Maps yet :( Jul 27 04:24:27 I'd care if I could get one Jul 27 04:24:45 crikey, going from maemo42 to maemo46 just ate 10+mb of my rootfs Jul 27 04:25:18 fusi, if rootfs isn't full, no need to worry Jul 27 04:26:35 why don't you have 47, fusi? Jul 27 04:26:59 yeah, turn by turn navigation would be so nice on the n900 Jul 27 04:27:19 I run with tunes sometimes, and keeping that on during a long run would be fscking sick Jul 27 04:27:39 "turn right" *hot surreal british chick voice* Jul 27 04:28:05 updateme, arduino + compass shield + USB Hostmode + USB Serial Console + software Jul 27 04:28:16 not the best solution, but it's a solution Jul 27 04:28:47 it is a solution at home, but if someone wants to be able to have it in pocket or walking without breaking it, then not really Jul 27 04:29:58 Sorry, I'm more of an elitist user than a dev Jul 27 04:30:05 hope that can be appreciated Jul 27 04:30:35 agreed Jul 27 04:30:55 well, there isnt much space inside the n900's case for yet another PCB+wires Jul 27 04:31:13 well, I'm unclear on what is wrong with the GPS antenna Jul 27 04:31:15 it's rather tight from all the very thick plastic and metal cage Jul 27 04:31:46 Some of the issues I've dealt with lead me to believe it is partially software... Since some programs say they get signals more quickly than others Jul 27 04:32:12 Surely, which is why n900v2 could pack it all in tighter and still have more features (moore's law etc) Jul 27 04:33:22 5:20 < updateme> why don't you have 47, fusi? Jul 27 04:33:34 not as stable i find Jul 27 04:33:47 Ah, what part of it? Jul 27 04:34:03 So you update manually instead of with 'the thing pops up'? Jul 27 04:34:04 heh Jul 27 04:34:18 :) Jul 27 04:34:34 dsp overclocking seems unstable Jul 27 04:34:51 is fine on 46 o_9 Jul 27 04:35:08 what has dsp overclocking allowed you to do? Jul 27 04:35:32 well, i dont :) Jul 27 04:35:56 only the cpu Jul 27 04:36:04 but i dont like the feeling Jul 27 04:36:07 :p Jul 27 04:36:08 Is it night and day? Jul 27 04:36:39 I already change out my batteries every few hours when I'm carrying, so I don't need to be using anymore power anyway Jul 27 04:36:39 ~80% @250mhz Jul 27 04:37:38 get bout 28hrs avg use, just bought 2 of those scud batts :) Jul 27 04:38:12 im off to bed Jul 27 04:38:18 5:30am :s Jul 27 04:38:24 nn o/ Jul 27 04:38:45 same, I carry 3 batteries with me where ever I go Jul 27 04:45:35 DocScrutinizer: have you tried any turn by turn GPS using the n900? Jul 27 04:46:06 Also, do you know the the n900s GPS issues are limited by just one thing, or several? Jul 27 04:46:19 Like, is it just a hardware antenna issue, or softare too, or what? Jul 27 04:46:20 mappero and marble Jul 27 04:46:55 can three people vote for this please? Jul 27 04:46:56 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/pyradio/3.7/ Jul 27 04:47:02 and for me there are no GPS issues. AIUI those are limited to devices without SIM Jul 27 04:47:04 need to move it to extras already Jul 27 04:47:40 mappero? Jul 27 04:47:48 seriously, can I even get street names with that app? Jul 27 04:48:13 I feel like I'm in the 90s using that app Jul 27 04:48:38 I mean 'directions' rather Jul 27 04:49:03 updateme: modrana does turn by turn Jul 27 04:51:24 joga: the question was if I have tested any. I only tested mappero and marble for turn by turn (voice) guidance Jul 27 04:52:30 monav backend even does offline routing for marble Jul 27 04:52:37 I thought only sygic did turn by turn - at least that's how it was marketed..... as the only one that could Jul 27 04:55:12 so there is a way to do turn-by-turn on the N900 for zero cost? Jul 27 04:56:15 torrents Jul 27 04:56:22 That's what I thought Jul 27 04:56:57 jonwil: marble Jul 27 04:58:02 voice of marble is ueber-new, as in "will arrive tomorrow" Jul 27 04:58:43 only English voice so far, contest for other lang still running Jul 27 04:59:43 or you use tomtom voicefiles, they are compatible Jul 27 04:59:56 where does Marble get maps from? Jul 27 05:00:00 OpenStreetMap? Jul 27 05:00:05 OSM? Jul 27 05:00:21 I think you can config several map sources Jul 27 05:01:40 DocScrutinizer: I heard a story about the cost of capacitive touch screens being based upon the transparent metal they're built with - do you know anything about this? Jul 27 05:01:54 no Jul 27 05:03:59 man, there is so much crap and misinformation having to do with the pros and cons and functionalities of resistive and capactive touch screens Jul 27 05:21:48 * jonwil is surprised that the prediction of smartphones + free-as-in-no-cost nav software killing standalone GPS hasn't come to pass Jul 27 05:23:02 jonwil: such easily solutions are possible too Jul 27 05:23:08 early days Jul 27 05:23:48 I think the problem is that the free-as-in-no-cost nav software isn't as good as TomTom/Garmin/etc Jul 27 05:24:20 and people question the accuracy of free vounteer-edited map data Jul 27 05:25:30 and rightly so Jul 27 05:25:32 haha Jul 27 05:30:25 man, these test and extra apps never really work Jul 27 05:30:35 just tried GeePS Jul 27 05:50:21 wow this is the best gps app I've tried hands down Jul 27 05:50:23 on the n900 Jul 27 05:50:53 can't scroll around quickly like you can on android, but I know know what causes that bottleneck... probably not the network though (since it would be the same datarate for map downloads) Jul 27 05:52:48 updateme: what is? Jul 27 05:53:19 try monav Jul 27 05:53:34 almost perfect routing, vector maps Jul 27 05:53:53 does it speak? Jul 27 05:53:58 soon Jul 27 05:54:15 christoph has already a private branch with speech support Jul 27 05:54:41 for now I think I'll use modrana, I like its interface Jul 27 05:54:43 http://monav.openstreetmap.de/ Jul 27 05:55:53 cloudgps is nicely smooth, but has no much functionality besides eye-candy Jul 27 07:04:19 argh, why on earth will scratchbox not work no more? it worked fine yesterday, now i get a "/usr/bin/apt-get: Accessing a corrupted shared library" when trying to install new software. fakeroot? the same... Jul 27 07:05:35 did you install something odd? Jul 27 07:06:58 i used the sb-menu to "select" the arm target Jul 27 07:07:11 never used that iirc Jul 27 07:07:13 i probably should have just selected it from the command line Jul 27 07:08:01 can still do it ;) Jul 27 07:10:49 ruskie: yah, tried it, but doesnt work, i think i must start from scratch Jul 27 07:10:54 haha, no pun intended :( Jul 27 07:12:58 Anybody have a guide to hide X cursor ...? Jul 27 07:21:09 ruskie: ok, got it fixed, needed to go through the whole setup process (of sb-menu) again Jul 27 07:21:24 anybody have an idea on how to get svn 1.6.x on scratchbox? Jul 27 07:22:16 last I checked you could use an older version with latest servers easily Jul 27 07:22:20 for checkouts iirc Jul 27 07:24:41 its giving me a warning Jul 27 07:25:13 svn: This client is too old to work with working copy 'myRepo'; please get a newer Subversion client Jul 27 07:28:51 erm Jul 27 07:28:55 working copy? Jul 27 07:29:05 you copied in an already checked out working copy? Jul 27 07:31:52 yes, was i supposed to check out the repo again? Jul 27 07:33:06 yup Jul 27 07:33:55 ok, will try that after the ./configure run Jul 27 10:51:22 I herald you, my supreme master! Lead us into the light of your wisdom and power Jul 27 10:52:30 is there a way to extract WI-FI passwords from a stock N810? Jul 27 10:52:39 infobot: botsnack Jul 27 10:52:39 aw, gee, RichiH Jul 27 10:53:21 at least on n900 its stored in gconf /system/osso/connectivity/, could be same on N810 with any luck Jul 27 11:05:00 hello. 2 questions about marble routing. 1) does "auto zoom" work for you? for me it doenst 2) is there a way to (automatically) rotate map while driving...cant find any option like that Jul 27 11:56:04 which maemo version does fremantle 1.3 correlate with? Jul 27 11:56:14 or the other way: how do i verify i have fremantle 1.3? Jul 27 11:56:36 osso-product-info Jul 27 11:57:12 about product, i assume? Jul 27 11:57:27 that's the other way Jul 27 11:57:30 but there, the version states 20.2010.36-2 Jul 27 11:57:37 ah ok, ima install your package Jul 27 11:57:39 and you compare the output versus tablets-dev.nokia.com Jul 27 11:58:01 good hint, thanks Jul 27 13:10:40 how is xmpp messaging for telepathy called on n950? Jul 27 14:03:55 is there some way to stop the app manager looking for updates when I'm on roaming data? Jul 27 14:05:13 you can't stop it, you can extend the time when HAM goes to check for updates Jul 27 14:05:19 while :; do killall .. ; sleep 5 ; done :D Jul 27 14:05:37 isn't there some "check for updates" checkbox anywhere ? :P Jul 27 14:05:40 HAM suck, that's it Jul 27 14:05:42 yeah an ugly script would work Jul 27 14:06:13 you need to use this gconftool thing Jul 27 14:06:18 there is check for updates box option if one has red pill enabled, however in my case unchecking that has no effect Jul 27 14:06:25 it reminds me of windows registry... Jul 27 14:06:38 there is check for updates box option if one has red pill enabled, however in my case unchecking that has no effect Jul 27 14:06:49 red pill was disabled post-PR1.0? Jul 27 14:07:16 at least i can't access it anymore Jul 27 14:07:32 FIQ|n900, no its not disabled, its made slightly harder to enable Jul 27 14:07:46 oh Jul 27 14:07:52 i liked the previous way :D Jul 27 14:08:17 reminds me of cheatcodes in games lol Jul 27 14:08:28 don't think it's enabled, know it's enabled Jul 27 14:08:48 IDKFA Jul 27 14:09:11 Robot101, http://wiki.maemo.org/Customizing_Maemo#Disabling_Auto_Updates_Check <-- here's one way Jul 27 14:09:55 FIQ|n900, http://wiki.maemo.org/Red_Pill_mode#Activating <--- Re: red pill mode, manual method of activating Jul 27 14:27:31 mbarcode somehow does not process MECARDs Jul 27 14:36:09 edheldil: Process? Jul 27 14:37:26 I'm not sure code was ever written to parse out the DoCoMo formats. Jul 27 14:38:20 well, it displays some helper in addition to the web search one, but it does not do anything visible when clicked Jul 27 14:38:59 Ah, I didn't even realize it did that much. Jul 27 14:39:54 "Open iMode MECARD data" Jul 27 14:55:13 are any of you N900 users have bi-directional calendar sync via CalDav working in Maemo? Jul 27 14:55:25 s/are/do Jul 27 15:05:57 May i flash EMMC Image "RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin" using combined "RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin" ? Jul 27 15:06:33 no Jul 27 15:06:37 these are two different images Jul 27 15:06:41 you have to flash both Jul 27 15:06:46 or just combined Jul 27 15:06:53 never flash emmc alone Jul 27 15:11:56 LarsN: I need mere WebDAV + iCal. Jul 27 15:12:08 but no luck as well Jul 27 15:13:26 edheldil: I'm pretty sure I also have funambol available on our SOGo server. Jul 27 15:13:39 I guess I could grab the syncevolution client and give that a shot. Jul 27 15:14:03 I should likely backup my device, then flash / wipe it clean before starting Jul 27 15:14:11 it's full of failed attempts at this point. Jul 27 15:23:35 angelox|laptop: isn't the queston a bit paradox? Jul 27 15:24:32 angelox|laptop: lease report any ambiguities or missing bits in Jul 27 15:24:35 ~flash Jul 27 15:24:36 well, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jul 27 15:24:45 P*lease Jul 27 15:27:41 because i saw the numbers inside image name are different Jul 27 15:28:03 notice: ~flashing is now -maemo-flashing Jul 27 15:28:22 angelox|laptop: ooh, that doesn't matter Jul 27 15:28:24 * ShadowJK wonders if ham would behave better with bindmounts instead of symlinks Jul 27 15:28:37 because it definitely wasnt this bad in pr1.0 Jul 27 15:28:52 angelox|laptop: there's only been iirc 2 VANILLA files, but some 4 or 5 COMBINED files Jul 27 15:29:01 yes,and old and that one Jul 27 15:29:13 s/and/a/ Jul 27 15:29:14 angelox|laptop meant: yes,a old and that one Jul 27 15:29:20 always use freshest of both Jul 27 15:29:54 Understood,thank you DocScrutinizer Jul 27 15:30:00 yw Jul 27 15:30:54 Man, anyone ever used the projects.developer.nokia.com thingy? I got a "want to join project" request from some guy but the site has no option to write messages to anyone?!? Jul 27 15:31:06 ShadowJK: ??? Jul 27 15:31:59 gri: projects.developer.nokia.com feels like it's in beta state Jul 27 15:32:13 That's more than beta state Jul 27 15:32:30 or less, depends on how you see it :) Jul 27 15:32:47 s/projects.// Jul 27 15:32:49 DocScrutinizer meant: gri: developer.nokia.com feels like it's in beta state Jul 27 15:33:41 I'm deleting my source there and switch to gitorious, there people atleast have the chance to contact each other Jul 27 15:34:11 DocScrutinizer, I'm wondering if they accidentally stat() the symlink instead of the intended file, and thus pop up "Checking for updates" constantly.. Also notable is that I never noticed the behaviour on PR1.0 brought to 1.3 through SSU, only on flashed-1.3.. Jul 27 15:37:07 ShadowJK: that might be a reason why I'm missing what you're talking about Jul 27 15:38:35 what popup "Checking for updtaes"? A hildon notifier? how often does that show? Jul 27 15:39:21 Has meego been progressing on the N900 or is it still primarily for playing around with? Jul 27 15:40:10 ShadowJK: seems to me I never seen such notifier - maybe coffee not yet kicked in Jul 27 15:41:06 LarsN: best place: /join #meego-arm Jul 27 15:42:20 anyone want to sell their nokia n8? Jul 27 15:42:32 i readed the warning "Never boot up the device between flashing the FIASCO image and the eMMC image",but i'm curious,why we can't do that? remembering,i wan't not to do,but i want know :) Jul 27 15:43:12 ShadowJK: though I "can not duplicate the issue", might it be related with updater process is closer checking the connectivity, so maybe the looking-for-update is triggered each time some connectivity state change happens? Jul 27 15:46:07 angelox|laptop: I guess because there is not /usr or something like that Jul 27 15:46:08 angelox|laptop: first-boot optifies a lot of binaries and files, means they get copied to /opt which will get erased on flashing VANILLA Jul 27 15:46:19 ah Jul 27 15:46:30 s/copied/moved/ Jul 27 15:46:30 DocScrutinizer meant: angelox|laptop: first-boot optifies a lot of binaries and files, means they get moved to /opt which will get erased on flashing VANILLA Jul 27 15:47:05 ah ok,understood,thank you :) Jul 27 15:47:46 angelox|laptop: that's why the foolproove way is to flash vanilla first, then combined, as then a intermediate accidental boot won't hurt Jul 27 15:48:57 and an accidental boot is happening *really* easily, and esp "noobs" don't even notice it Jul 27 15:49:25 plugging in USB to the device already makes it boot Jul 27 15:49:59 DocScrutinizer, a "modal" progress bar in ham. Pops up when tapping download, pops up on returning to main menu, pops up on going to download again, etc Jul 27 15:50:27 aaaaah that one Jul 27 15:51:16 yeah, it feels a bit broken Jul 27 15:51:41 i dont think it was this broken before ham/apt data got optified Jul 27 15:52:22 I hardly can recall that time Jul 27 15:53:07 but probably you *could* flash PR1.0 and first eMMC image, and see what it's like there Jul 27 15:53:41 stat64("/home/user/.hildon-application-manager-last-update", 0xbeb5d0a8) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) Jul 27 15:53:44 hm Jul 27 15:53:59 keep in mind though that extras wasn't enabled by default in PR1.0 Jul 27 15:54:44 i think enabling it was first thing I did after unboxing and setting clock Jul 27 15:55:15 aaah yes, that's more like it - as HAM ran into "not enough space on /" issues for all the cache and whatnot, it eventually changed to use eMMC to store those things Jul 27 15:55:43 AIUI Jul 27 15:55:57 lol, i created that file, but ham wrote something to it and then deleted it Jul 27 15:56:07 haha Jul 27 15:58:00 while true; do chmod a-w /home/user/.hildon-application-manager-last-update; ln /home/user/.hildon-application-manager-last-update /home/user/.hildon-application-manager-last-update-STAY; done Jul 27 15:58:37 or cp -l /home/user/.hildon-application-manager-last-update /home/user/.hildon-application-manager-last-update-STAY Jul 27 15:58:51 DocScrutinizer, actually it writes another file Jul 27 15:58:51 instead ln Jul 27 15:59:10 /home/user/.hildon-application-manager/last-update Jul 27 15:59:35 HAHAHAHA Jul 27 16:00:17 the benefits of hardcoded strings in code, rather than using decent #define Jul 27 16:00:23 or const Jul 27 16:01:16 isn't "/" == Shift+"-", on qwerty? Jul 27 16:02:22 on 104-key qwerty normal kbd Jul 27 16:03:06 DocScrutinizer: nope, on qwerty / is next to the right shift key Jul 27 16:03:16 ShadowJK: I guess you squished an age-old buf in HAM that made it suck so hard for all of us Jul 27 16:03:46 hiemanshu: that doesn't help to clarify my question Jul 27 16:03:49 DocScrutinizer: no Jul 27 16:03:54 DocScrutinizer: it's just / Jul 27 16:04:05 DocScrutinizer: on UK layout Jul 27 16:04:19 DocScrutinizer: I just answered isn't "/" == Shift+"-", on qwerty? Jul 27 16:04:37 hiemanshu: you did? Jul 27 16:04:50 DocScrutinizer: DocScrutinizer: nope, on qwerty / is next to the right shift key Jul 27 16:04:59 DocScrutinizer: and shift+- is _ Jul 27 16:05:12 yes, jacekowski answered it Jul 27 16:05:20 DocScrutinizer, it didn't solve anything? Jul 27 16:06:10 ShadowJK: HAM is open, no? Jul 27 16:07:26 All I found was that it checks in /home/user first, then .hildon-application-manager/last-update, and deletes the one in user/ if it exists, or something Jul 27 16:07:39 I'd bet somebody used inline string constants in several locations, and occasionally used "/home/user/.hildon-application-manager-last-update" instead of "/home/user/.hildon-application-manager/last-update" Jul 27 16:08:29 ahoy Jul 27 16:08:31 Note that /home/user/.hildon-application-manager-last-update looks definitely fishy Jul 27 16:09:09 only need kernel-power-headers if devving on device right? Jul 27 16:09:28 DocScrutinizer: i agree that path looks wrong Jul 27 16:09:31 it stats it twice, deletes it, then opens the "correct" file Jul 27 16:09:39 it stinks like typo, so terribly intense that I can sense it thru internet ;-) Jul 27 16:09:48 hehe Jul 27 16:09:54 typo sense is tingling Jul 27 16:11:19 look, kids! That's why you define string (and other) constants in one location Jul 27 16:11:46 helps with translation too Jul 27 16:11:49 where's that friggin HAM source? Jul 27 16:11:56 mxr? Jul 27 16:13:21 does anyone know why mutt doesn't work properly in osso-xterm? Jul 27 16:17:17 hmmmm http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/search?find=/hildon-application-manager/&string=last-update Jul 27 16:19:22 http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/ident?i=UFILE_LAST_UPDATE Jul 27 16:24:37 YAY http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/hildon-application-manager/src/user_files.c#83 Jul 27 16:24:50 ShadowJK: ^^^ Jul 27 16:27:25