**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 03 02:59:57 2011
Aug 03 03:40:09 <hiemanshu> DocScrutinizer: send me your N950 then :P
Aug 03 03:43:35 <DocScrutinizer51> hiemanshu: if the situation didn't change in 4..6 weeks, then you should ask Quim/Nokia to send me return package postage paid
Aug 03 03:55:55 <DocScrutinizer> ebzzry: see the MHD video on OVI, liked to on http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
Aug 03 03:57:08 <DocScrutinizer> ebzzry: so obviously matan found a way to rearrange, even one with a rather cool animation
Aug 03 03:57:44 <DocScrutinizer> ebzzry: in stock maemo there's no such option for user though
Aug 03 03:58:25 <DocScrutinizer> at least none I'd know of
Aug 03 03:58:51 <DocScrutinizer> s/liked to/linked to/
Aug 03 03:58:52 <ebzzry> DocScrutinizer: Let me check that.
Aug 03 04:00:35 <DocScrutinizer> ebzzry: I was so amazed about it I had to take a video even :-D
Aug 03 04:02:57 <ebzzry> DocScrutinizer: Is it this one: http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.screenshots/joerg900.10092 (this is the only video link I found)
Aug 03 04:03:31 <DocScrutinizer> prolly
Aug 03 04:04:43 <ebzzry> DocScrutinizer: What does MHD stand for?
Aug 03 04:05:02 <DocScrutinizer> modified/matan's hildon desktop
Aug 03 04:05:30 <ebzzry> Ah, I know that. But that would require that I change the mode for C-BS
Aug 03 04:05:46 <ebzzry> DocScrutinizer: but if that's the only option now, then I'm fine with it.
Aug 03 04:06:48 <ebzzry> I was thinking if it was possible to do it with tap-and-drag.
Aug 03 04:07:07 <DocScrutinizer> ebzzry: note that ctrl-down bs-down ctrl-up bs-up still keeps the taskswitcher open as ctrl-BS did without MHD
Aug 03 04:07:55 <ebzzry> Wait, wait. C-Down?
Aug 03 04:08:22 <DocScrutinizer> clicking bs while holding ctl cycles forward, clicking ctl while holding bs cycles backward
Aug 03 04:09:57 <ebzzry> That would be 5 for /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/key-actions/ctrl_backspace_in_tasknav right?
Aug 03 04:10:18 <DocScrutinizer> when taskswitcher is open (by ctrl bs ^ctrl ^bs) you can select by pressing positional keys qwe/asd for 123/456th
Aug 03 04:10:33 <DocScrutinizer> while shift+qweasd closes task
Aug 03 04:10:45 <DocScrutinizer> 5 right
Aug 03 04:11:00 <DocScrutinizer> as I explained on my tools page
Aug 03 04:11:07 <ebzzry> Copy.
Aug 03 04:12:18 <DocScrutinizer> this function is the smartest thing since sliced bread - couldn't live without it anymore
Aug 03 04:13:46 <ebzzry> How does the animation happen?
Aug 03 04:13:59 <DocScrutinizer> eh?
Aug 03 04:14:40 <DocScrutinizer> hold ctrl click bs ->forward
Aug 03 04:14:58 <DocScrutinizer> hold bs click ctrl ->back 
Aug 03 04:15:08 <ebzzry> Ah, I must have turned off the bling.
Aug 03 04:15:20 <ebzzry> (transition animations)
Aug 03 04:16:04 <hiemanshu> DocScrutinizer: bs?
Aug 03 04:16:10 <ebzzry> backspace
Aug 03 04:16:18 <hiemanshu> ah
Aug 03 04:16:36 <DocScrutinizer> release ctrl as last key ->select task upper left. release bs as last key ->keep task switcher view open
Aug 03 04:16:40 <ebzzry> The other way, pressing Ctrl while holding BS seems to be too fast though.
Aug 03 04:17:18 <DocScrutinizer> ebzzry: yeah, you need to click ctrl really short
Aug 03 04:18:38 <DocScrutinizer> probably related to key repeat of bs
Aug 03 04:18:43 <ebzzry> DocScrutinizer: Is that a bug, or that's how Ctrl naturally behaves?
Aug 03 04:19:03 <fusi> oooh yea
Aug 03 04:19:15 <fusi> just oauthed myself from my n900 ^^
Aug 03 04:20:04 <ebzzry> As a semi related topic, does anyone know how to restore the default transition configuration?
Aug 03 04:20:24 <DocScrutinizer> ebzzry: try: ctrl press, bs press, ctrl release, bs release. Then press "e" for upper right app
Aug 03 04:20:54 <ebzzry> DocScrutinizer: Yup.
Aug 03 04:21:03 <DocScrutinizer> shift-e for closing upper right app
Aug 03 04:22:01 <ebzzry> Or, FN-E, right?
Aug 03 04:22:12 <DocScrutinizer> (default trans cfg) seems transitions editor app has a "restore factory defaults"
Aug 03 04:22:18 <DocScrutinizer> ebzzry: right
Aug 03 04:23:22 <ebzzry> The transitioncontrol app doesn't seem to have it. Anyway, I backed up my transitions.ini, so it's fine.
Aug 03 04:25:21 <DocScrutinizer> err, doesn't?
Aug 03 04:25:23 <DocScrutinizer> hmm
Aug 03 04:25:27 * DocScrutinizer checks
Aug 03 04:25:46 <ebzzry> There's an "Apply Changes", and "Restart Desktop" buttons.
Aug 03 04:25:59 <ebzzry> s/an//
Aug 03 04:26:45 <DocScrutinizer51> indeed, doesnt
Aug 03 04:27:28 <DocScrutinizer51> mixed that with LED pattern editor
Aug 03 04:27:39 <ebzzry> Ok.
Aug 03 04:28:25 <ebzzry> While I'm familiarizing myself with mode 5 of ctrl_backspace_in_tasknav (I'm a heavy user of mode 2), how can I rearrange my windows from 1 2 3 4 to 3 2 4 1?
Aug 03 04:29:28 <ebzzry> s/mode 2/mode 1/
Aug 03 04:32:27 <DocScrutinizer51> you'll see two new(?) items in transition control: task rearrange and task zoom. I like to reduce both from 25 to 5..15
Aug 03 04:32:30 <DocScrutinizer51> both for MHD
Aug 03 04:34:41 <ebzzry> Copy.
Aug 03 04:36:27 <ebzzry> Gah. Everytime I hit "Restart Desktop" my phone reboots. :(
Aug 03 04:36:39 <DocScrutinizer51> dang, I posted to #harmattan
Aug 03 04:36:51 <ebzzry> :-D
Aug 03 04:36:53 <DocScrutinizer51> duh?
Aug 03 04:37:02 <ebzzry> Yup.
Aug 03 04:37:20 <DocScrutinizer51> it boots?
Aug 03 04:37:31 <ebzzry> That's as far as I can reproduce it. 
Aug 03 04:37:34 <ebzzry> Yup, reboots.
Aug 03 04:38:23 <DocScrutinizer51> aah, 10+ desktop restarts in less than 1min makes dsme reboot
Aug 03 04:38:52 <DocScrutinizer51> don't quote me on 10 and 1min
Aug 03 04:38:58 <ebzzry> Ha! :-D
Aug 03 04:39:09 <ebzzry> By the way, thanks to your contributions to Maemo.
Aug 03 04:39:49 <DocScrutinizer51> thanks for your appreciating it
Aug 03 04:39:51 <ebzzry> IMO, the N900 is still the most ideal device for my type of work.
Aug 03 04:40:01 <DocScrutinizer51> same here
Aug 03 04:40:14 <ebzzry> It doesn't happen a lot that people have the motivation and drive to contribute.
Aug 03 04:40:32 <ebzzry> Even if you do things for free, without clear incentives, you still do it.
Aug 03 04:43:41 <ebzzry> (ah, the intrinsic meaning of incentives here is debatable -- sorry.)
Aug 03 04:59:54 <user> hello
Aug 03 05:06:22 <ebzzry> DocScrutinizer51: The mode of tasknav is OK, but I still can't rearrange them in a non-linear way.
Aug 03 08:37:15 <wazd> morning
Aug 03 08:40:38 <ultra420> :-D
Aug 03 08:41:45 <ultra420> hello~~~ anybody could help me to survive my N900 plz...i can't make the mscim work....even i press ctrl+space.nothing happened....i have installed  mscim and mscim-googlepinyin...
Aug 03 08:42:14 <ultra420> any help..plz..i was bother by this  for a whole day now.... i don't want to flash N900 again....
Aug 03 08:44:26 <crashanddie> ultra420, please don't spam the place with ~'s and .'s
Aug 03 08:44:51 <ultra420> soooory,i got it.
Aug 03 08:45:04 <kerio> crashanddie: lol...why~~~
Aug 03 08:45:28 <crashanddie> 'cuz I'm not in the mood.
Aug 03 08:45:32 <kerio> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aug 03 08:46:38 <ultra420> but  what should i do with my N900 now,i can't input Chinese on it. this is tortue
Aug 03 08:47:09 <ultra420> i google for a long time. but i did't solve this problem yet.
Aug 03 08:47:24 <crashanddie> ultra420, ps aux | grep scim-panel
Aug 03 08:47:55 <ultra420> i use " ps aux|grep scim ". but i got nothing.
Aug 03 08:47:58 <kerio> ultra420: in the worst-case scenario you can just change to the russian keymap and change it
Aug 03 08:48:22 <crashanddie> dpkg -l | grep scim
Aug 03 08:49:37 <ultra420> dpkg -l |grep scim:show i have install packages: mscim,mscim-googlepinyin,mscim-tables-symbol mscim-modules-table
Aug 03 08:49:51 <crashanddie> did you reboot the n900?
Aug 03 08:51:17 <ultra420> thanks  creashhaddie,of cause i reboot,i uninstall mscim* and then install mscim*,            i  tried a lot following the goolge's suggestion.  
Aug 03 08:51:53 <crashanddie> No need to get angry.
Aug 03 08:51:56 <crashanddie> I'm just trying to help.
Aug 03 08:52:05 <ultra420> no...dear crashanddie..
Aug 03 08:52:22 <ultra420> i did't angry. i m happy that you reply to me.
Aug 03 09:03:23 <pavi> DocScrutinizer, In reply to 
Aug 03 09:03:40 <pavi> <DocScrutinizer>	pavi: CSSU is *not* an alternative distro to fremantle. Thus it won't see frequent updates, it only gets things that can not get deployed via normal extras(-*) repository. According to this rationale actually new camera, new mp3player etc all has to get kicked from CSSU rather than get any updates or even additional new apps of same class
Aug 03 09:03:54 <pavi> So CSSU is something like debian non-free ?
Aug 03 09:06:42 <Pali> pavi: I think no, because in CSSU we have open source application
Aug 03 09:07:32 <pavi> I mean in free sense , debian non-free are kind of not acceptable in debian main , similarly cssu are not acceptable in main maemo
Aug 03 09:08:05 <Pali> Nokia abandoned Maemo, so no update from Nokia
Aug 03 09:08:29 <Pali> CSSU is community updates of core (open source) components of Maemo fremantle
Aug 03 09:09:02 <Pali> and in Extras are other application (non Nokia)
Aug 03 09:11:20 <kerio> yeah but the updates/replacements of core components could depend on extras
Aug 03 09:23:13 <pavi> Pali, and there havent been any updates recently ?
Aug 03 09:23:29 <pavi> even in CSSU ?
Aug 03 09:26:42 <Pali> I think no updates to repository
Aug 03 09:27:19 <Pali> but you can watch git repositories: http://gitorious.org/community-ssu
Aug 03 09:27:31 <Pali> there are a lot of patches/changes
Aug 03 09:29:07 <pavi> Ahh ok
Aug 03 09:29:39 <pavi> Pali, I am thinking of adding a keyboard layout, where do I begin?
Aug 03 09:30:59 <Pali> First, if your changes/patch is someting for CSSU or Extras
Aug 03 09:35:12 <TimmyT> on n900 gps doesn't work. it can't find any sat, how can i find its problem?
Aug 03 09:36:59 <cehteh> TimmyT: how did you try?
Aug 03 09:40:54 <TimmyT> i run these programs: GPS Recored, GPSdata and Maps. I saw that sat icon was blinking in the status area, but it couldn't find any satellite 
Aug 03 09:41:31 <TimmyT> is there any hardware problem?
Aug 03 09:42:28 <Sicelo> doubt.
Aug 03 09:43:16 <TimmyT> how can i sure?
Aug 03 09:43:27 <TimmyT> or at least find its problem?
Aug 03 09:43:42 <ruskie> wouldn't the sat icon blink if there is no lock?
Aug 03 09:43:59 <pavi> TimmyT, since its AGPS you need proper connection via 2G or 3G to cell towers
Aug 03 09:44:46 <TimmyT> pavi: im on EDGE network
Aug 03 09:44:47 <ruskie> I thought it can run without agps
Aug 03 09:45:07 <TimmyT> ruskie: what lock?
Aug 03 09:45:13 <ruskie> GPS lock
Aug 03 09:45:28 <pavi> TimmyT, able to browse internet properly ? and are you outdoors (silly of me asking)
Aug 03 09:45:44 <TimmyT> pavi: yes, 
Aug 03 09:45:56 <TimmyT> ruskie: dunnu wat is GPS lock :(
Aug 03 09:45:58 <kerio> pavi: hm, the best way is to modify one
Aug 03 09:46:05 * pavi used GPS on metro rail and was able to get the entire route from home to work
Aug 03 09:46:28 <Sicelo> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7026
Aug 03 09:46:29 <povbot> 04Bug 7026: Can't get a GPS lock with several satellites at view
Aug 03 09:46:56 <Sicelo> that's what helped me. i have no problem with gps lock ony my n900 right now
Aug 03 09:47:28 <kerio> pavi: /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51
Aug 03 09:47:37 <ShadowJK> iyou don't need connectin to 2g or 3g
Aug 03 09:48:17 <ShadowJK> works without too, but needs a minimum of ~40 sec good uniterrupted gps signal (assuming cold start)
Aug 03 09:48:48 <pavi> kerio, neeed to change them for keyboard layout ?
Aug 03 09:49:37 <kerio> watch out because if it's malformed in boot time it won't boot
Aug 03 09:49:37 <kerio> so test it with... huh... xkb-something
Aug 03 09:49:37 <cehteh> TimmyT: if you cant connect to the agps server then acquring a position need up to 15 minutes with clear sight to the sky
Aug 03 09:50:14 <cehteh> the internal maps application is broken as it gives up after 1 minute or so
Aug 03 09:50:17 <pavi> I think its cold start in TimmyT  's case . Yeah me even tried with home wifi  . left the phone on the roof and came after some 10 minutes :)
Aug 03 09:50:24 <cehteh> use mappero or some gps logger
Aug 03 09:50:38 <cehteh> leave the device lying outside and be patient
Aug 03 09:51:00 <TimmyT> ok
Aug 03 09:51:03 <TimmyT> i'll try
Aug 03 09:51:12 <cehteh> maybe your phone provider blocks agps requests ..
Aug 03 09:51:27 <cehteh> can you try on a wlan? 
Aug 03 09:51:29 <kerio> pavi: you need to change that if you want to modify the keyboard layout
Aug 03 09:51:37 <cehteh> and in settings you can switch between agps or not
Aug 03 09:51:45 <ShadowJK> booted my spare N900 a few days ago to do some battery tests, started gpsjinni to add some battery drain, and got gps lock indoors without any network connectivity
Aug 03 09:51:47 <kerio> pavi: advice: test shift+fn+key combos
Aug 03 09:52:08 <cehteh> ShadowJK: when you are lucky, yes
Aug 03 09:52:12 <kerio> for instance, shift+fn+z is the same as shift+fn+x
Aug 03 09:52:35 <ShadowJK> It'll operate like gps until it gets agps data, at which point the agps data will be used to boost the gps functionality
Aug 03 09:52:43 <cehteh> means, good sattelite constellation and you live in a cardboard house :P
Aug 03 09:53:12 <TimmyT> i'm going to try it outside the house with my WIFI access point at home
Aug 03 09:53:15 <TimmyT> brb
Aug 03 09:53:17 <cehteh> ShadowJK: i think so too, but sometimes i doubt that :P
Aug 03 09:53:24 <TimmyT> i'll brb and report
Aug 03 09:53:47 <kerio> so, what's the official nerd toy as of now?
Aug 03 09:53:47 <kerio> openpandora?
Aug 03 09:53:47 <kerio> is there something with an omap4?
Aug 03 09:54:48 <cehteh> http://www.raspberrypi.org/
Aug 03 09:56:05 <kerio> omg i liek pi
Aug 03 09:56:52 <kerio> not portable :(
Aug 03 09:57:45 <kerio> sheevaplug > that, as of now
Aug 03 09:57:45 <kerio> for instance, the sheevaplug exists
Aug 03 09:59:09 <xkr47> someone know a webshop that sells brand new n900s ?
Aug 03 09:59:27 <iluminator101> is there a graphical vlc for n900 or just command line?
Aug 03 09:59:46 <cehteh> xkr47: amazon?
Aug 03 10:00:05 <kerio> cehteh: cute project, but i want portableness
Aug 03 10:00:57 <xkr47> cehteh, there's only one with 58% positive rating :P
Aug 03 10:01:10 <cehteh> here in germany are few more
Aug 03 10:01:33 <cehteh> but hillarious prices ...   Neu kaufen: EUR 681,50  .. muahhaa
Aug 03 10:01:34 <xkr47> cehteh, I would be happy if you could give me some
Aug 03 10:02:08 <cehteh> http://www.amazon.de/Nokia-N900-Smartphone-Maemo-black/dp/B002N2Z0MQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312365526&sr=8-1
Aug 03 10:02:17 <cehteh> (does that url work for you?)
Aug 03 10:03:02 <xkr47> yep
Aug 03 10:03:30 <cehteh> http://www.amazon.de/Nokia-Smartphone-Display-Touchscreen-Megapixel/dp/B003CZZ3JI/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1312365526&sr=8-8
Aug 03 10:03:32 <xkr47> no "english" button :P
Aug 03 10:03:46 <cehteh> its .de :)
Aug 03 10:03:55 <xkr47> yep
Aug 03 10:06:14 <TimmyT> Im outside of the house, here i've run maps, i see a red line on the sat icon in the status area
Aug 03 10:06:44 <cehteh> red line?
Aug 03 10:06:49 <TimmyT> And its's saying looking for gps
Aug 03 10:06:50 <cehteh> well dont use maps :P
Aug 03 10:06:55 <TimmyT> Yes
Aug 03 10:06:58 <cehteh> maps is broken
Aug 03 10:07:17 <cehteh> install mappero or use the track-logger widget
Aug 03 10:07:25 <TimmyT> Ok
Aug 03 10:07:55 <cehteh> mappero and other gps software also shows some more information, sattlites acquired, in sight, signal strength and so on
Aug 03 10:08:07 <cehteh> (somewhere hidden in the menus)
Aug 03 10:08:32 <xkr47> is there great differencies in the quality of n900 devices?
Aug 03 10:08:43 <cehteh> if you go without agps you have to be really patient and be sure that your software doesnt give up and closes the gps after a timeout
Aug 03 10:08:52 <cehteh> cold booting gps takes quite some time
Aug 03 10:09:13 <xkr47> I never use plain gps :P
Aug 03 10:09:17 <cehteh> nothing heared about gps .. but considering the broken usb port yes :)
Aug 03 10:09:44 <cehteh> well maybe the agps servers are down or cant provide you any info or blocked or whatever
Aug 03 10:10:13 <TimmyT> Im sry but wat is agps? :-(
Aug 03 10:10:13 <cehteh> then your device will do sattelite only acquisition .. which can be painfully slow
Aug 03 10:10:23 <cehteh> assisted gps ..
Aug 03 10:10:43 <xkr47> cehteh, any experience with "Handelskontor Kirchner" ?
Aug 03 10:10:43 <cehteh> the one asking servers on the internet about supplementary data 
Aug 03 10:10:48 <cehteh> xkr47: no
Aug 03 10:10:59 <cehteh> you know how gps works?
Aug 03 10:11:17 <TimmyT> Is that a service i should run on my device?
Aug 03 10:11:21 <cehteh> your device has to have a set of data about the sattelite parameters
Aug 03 10:11:52 <cehteh> the sattelites send that on a very low bandwidth and you have to have good reception to get valid data
Aug 03 10:11:59 <xkr47> heh bestdeals sells has n900s as new for several different prices
Aug 03 10:12:10 <cehteh> thats slow and error prone especially in bad reception areas or while moving
Aug 03 10:12:45 <cehteh> with agps you can query this data over the internet .. but that requires a working internet connection
Aug 03 10:12:46 * xkr47 just loves the n900.. sadly n950 doesn't seem to be coming my way :P
Aug 03 10:13:02 <cehteh> n950 n9 are dead
Aug 03 10:13:28 <xkr47> :)
Aug 03 10:13:29 <nid0> I had a chat with someone working at nokia research in london at the weekend, apparently they just have n950's and n9's pretty much lying round by the dozen :\
Aug 03 10:13:30 <cehteh> TimmyT: you never used the gps before right?
Aug 03 10:13:35 <xkr47> how about n900 ? :)
Aug 03 10:13:47 <cehteh> mine works :P
Aug 03 10:13:47 <yacc> sigh, well, the company policies at least managed to get Nokia on a Top-10 brands to vanish 2012 list ;)
Aug 03 10:13:50 <TimmyT> Tnx, i got that. So can i run agps service on my device?
Aug 03 10:13:52 <xkr47> mine too
Aug 03 10:13:52 <xkr47> :)
Aug 03 10:14:15 <cehteh> TimmyT: not really service, more a client 
Aug 03 10:14:31 <cehteh> which queries the nokia agps server 
Aug 03 10:14:35 <TimmyT> Cehteh, not on this device. Bfore i did on a b7300
Aug 03 10:15:01 <cehteh> cold booting any gps is slow, thats intrinsic to the gps protocol
Aug 03 10:15:34 <cehteh> with better antenna and better receiver you can make it little faster since you have less erroneous reception and better signal strength
Aug 03 10:15:39 <TimmyT> I run navitel on that windows device and it could find sats quikly
Aug 03 10:16:22 <cehteh> yes most devices can cache and interpolate this data to do warm boots 
Aug 03 10:16:57 <cehteh> with agps i get a fix in matter of seconds on my n900
Aug 03 10:17:04 <cehteh> without it takes quite a while
Aug 03 10:17:39 <cehteh> you verified that you can surf the web? .. internet connection works?
Aug 03 10:18:14 <TimmyT> Im on n900 right now
Aug 03 10:18:44 <TimmyT> Using pidgin to be here
Aug 03 10:19:09 <cehteh> ok
Aug 03 10:19:26 <TimmyT> Is agps available in official repos?
Aug 03 10:20:00 <nid0> its built into the device
Aug 03 10:20:23 <cehteh> you dont need to install anything
Aug 03 10:20:30 <cehteh> go to settings->locatioon
Aug 03 10:20:52 <TimmyT> Aaaah, i got that
Aug 03 10:20:58 <cehteh> there you can activate/deactivate "network positioning" or whater its named 
Aug 03 10:21:03 <cehteh> what that on?
Aug 03 10:21:07 <joga> http://i.imgur.com/VEOpb.jpg
Aug 03 10:21:27 <cehteh> then you can add a server ther default is supl.nokia.com you can also try supl.google.com
Aug 03 10:21:52 <TimmyT> Google is better
Aug 03 10:21:52 <cehteh> joga: :)
Aug 03 10:22:03 <TimmyT> Tnx for saying that
Aug 03 10:22:10 <cehteh> just try some people report google works for them but nokia not
Aug 03 10:23:00 <TimmyT> Going outside to try again
Aug 03 10:23:24 <pavi> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS
Aug 03 10:24:12 <TimmyT> Hey look, since i've changed its server, the sat icon doesn't blink n e more
Aug 03 10:24:42 <pavi> TimmyT, also try some of the apps listed here http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nokia_N900
Aug 03 10:25:26 <pavi> The default nokia one worked for me :)
Aug 03 10:28:28 <woodong50_______> ...
Aug 03 10:29:02 <TimmyT> Ok, tnx guys, im going to get some new apps for gps
Aug 03 10:29:54 <MohammadAG> lol joga 
Aug 03 10:31:48 <cehteh> TimmyT1: http://monav.openstreetmap.de
Aug 03 10:45:57 <pavi> cehteh, monav looks cool , installing it
Aug 03 10:46:17 <cehteh> i am using it almost exclusively by now
Aug 03 10:46:49 <cehteh> put the germany_big map on a squashfs .. which is kinda cool as it saves some GB of memory
Aug 03 10:47:14 <nusse> bike routing seems to be broken for me
Aug 03 10:47:56 <pavi> cehteh, are they all tiles or routing info inside the downloads?
Aug 03 10:48:04 <pavi> How about network usage?
Aug 03 10:48:54 <cehteh> pavi: it has vector maps, not tiles :) ... you can use it completely offline 
Aug 03 10:49:08 <cehteh> with the best looking maps available on the n900
Aug 03 10:49:12 <pavi> cehteh, wow thats why I see smaller downloads :)
Aug 03 10:49:20 * pavi downloads the data dir :)
Aug 03 10:49:33 <cehteh> tile maps are also supported, but i never tried those
Aug 03 10:50:50 <pavi> Qtile Renderer« requires that the preprocessor packed geometry data into a special binary file format. Map tiles are then rendered "on the fly".
Aug 03 10:50:55 <pavi> ahh nice !
Aug 03 10:50:58 <cehteh> the awesome thing is its routing .. quote from Christoph "you dont notice anymore when you took the wrong way"
Aug 03 10:51:05 <pavi> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/MoNav#Rendering
Aug 03 10:51:35 <cehteh> means when you took the wrong way it instantly shows the route from where you are to the destionation
Aug 03 10:51:45 * pavi est tres content , yeah really content both in french and english sense
Aug 03 10:51:58 <pavi> TimmyT, how is GPS ?
Aug 03 10:52:32 <TimmyT> GPS is so nice :D
Aug 03 10:52:40 <TimmyT> but didn't work :(
Aug 03 10:53:04 <TimmyT> even after changing that server to google
Aug 03 10:53:20 <pavi> This reminds me of those hell days I had with iphone and a stupid cellphone provider . 
Aug 03 10:53:38 <pavi> TimmyT, dude try with another sim card
Aug 03 10:54:37 <TimmyT> dunnu anythin now, im trying to find a useful calculator for maemo
Aug 03 10:54:45 <pavi> I switched my provider and everything just worked like that . Agreed that N900 also uses wifi network to assist the GPS , the cellphone way is preferred
Aug 03 10:55:55 <TimmyT> wat the difference it makes?
Aug 03 11:06:11 <DocScrutinizer51> the GSM providers usually send special GPS assist data in a "hidden" channel. This is way more specific regarding location than your average internet based SUPL
Aug 03 11:06:57 <DocScrutinizer51> plus it goes to modem directly. On N900 GPS is handled by modem
Aug 03 11:08:43 <DocScrutinizer51> so eve with an invalid SIM and no data connectivity you may have better GPS than with any internet based SUPL server
Aug 03 11:14:33 <chem|st> WTF?
Aug 03 11:18:22 <TimmyT> im confused
Aug 03 11:19:16 <TimmyT> is it possible to connect usb devices such as usb mice or keyboards or even cool disks to n900?
Aug 03 11:19:40 <DocScrutinizer51> yes
Aug 03 11:19:58 <DocScrutinizer51> ~h-e-n
Aug 03 11:19:59 <infobot> somebody said hostmode was http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232, or see ~hostmode-charging
Aug 03 11:23:12 <DocScrutinizer51> chem|st: ?
Aug 03 11:27:14 <Arkenoi> DocScrutinizer, there is special provider-enabled channel? surprising enough, i was sure it is similar to wlan mac assisted mode: a self-maintained database mapping cell ids to locations
Aug 03 11:36:16 <ShadowJK> It's all highly operator dependent
Aug 03 11:36:57 <ShadowJK> from tmobile blocking/scrambling agps requests to supl.nokia, to operators sending position information :)
Aug 03 11:45:52 <pavi> ShadowJK, yeah a sim change could provide results for TimmyT 
Aug 03 11:46:38 <hiemanshu> ~packrat
Aug 03 11:46:39 <infobot> rumour has it, packrat is a cute little rodent that keeps everything it finds. http://www.ageofikon.com/prh/
Aug 03 11:50:43 <DocScrutinizer> ~rrlp
Aug 03 11:50:44 <infobot> somebody said rrlp was the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or http://security.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/RRLP
Aug 03 11:51:20 <DocScrutinizer> ^^^ AGPS via GSM, "transparent"
Aug 03 11:52:33 <DocScrutinizer> ~gsm-agps is <reply>see rrlp
Aug 03 11:52:34 <infobot> DocScrutinizer: okay
Aug 03 11:52:43 <DocScrutinizer> ~gsm-agps
Aug 03 11:52:44 <infobot> [rrlp] the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or http://security.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/RRLP
Aug 03 11:53:14 <Pali> DocScrutinizer: I started developing library for BME: https://code.launchpad.net/~pali/+junk/maemo_libbqioctl
Aug 03 11:53:18 <DocScrutinizer> next time I hope it won't take me 30min to find the friggin factoid - couldn't remember llrp
Aug 03 11:54:17 <Pali> it will read battery properties from /sys if application call ioctl on device in /dev
Aug 03 11:54:55 <xkr47> is it possible to transfer backups taken in one n900 to another ?
Aug 03 11:55:01 <DocScrutinizer> fsck did it again, brain: s/llrp/rrlp/
Aug 03 11:56:11 <DocScrutinizer> >>In all known phones, RRLP operation is completely invisible to the user of the phone.<<
Aug 03 11:56:31 <TimmyT> going to install nano, but it says: dependencies:                                                                         
Aug 03 11:56:31 <TimmyT>   nano-opt: Depends: libncursesw5 (>= 5.7+20081213-1.maemo1+0m5) but it is not going to be installed
Aug 03 11:57:07 <DocScrutinizer> >>Contrary to the user-plane based SUPL?, RRLP works entirely in the signaling plane of the network.<<
Aug 03 11:58:11 <lardman> anyone here had any experience of tesseract or other ocr sw on-device?
Aug 03 11:58:17 <TimmyT> where is that library? i've added all of official repositories 
Aug 03 12:00:48 <DocScrutinizer> >>[BTS provides...] the expected code phase, i.e. the difference between a specified GSM bit and the GPS signal chip / bit<< This helps A LOT to get an instant fix
Aug 03 12:02:08 <DocScrutinizer> Arkenoi: chem|st: this should help you understand what GSM does for GPS
Aug 03 12:02:37 <DocScrutinizer> ...and why N900 has almost instant fix whenever a SIM is inserted
Aug 03 12:03:04 <DocScrutinizer> ...and why this is even better than SUPL
Aug 03 12:12:25 <DocScrutinizer> >> This approach sends data necessary for performing Assisted-GPS on the control — or standards-defined — channels (thus the term “control plane”) which are an inherent part of a network operator’s mobile call distribution system.<<  http://www.gpsworld.com/gps/wireless-choices-lbs-control-plane-and-user-plane-architectures-1576
Aug 03 12:13:48 <DocScrutinizer> xkr47: sure
Aug 03 12:13:54 <DocScrutinizer> xkr47: no problem
Aug 03 12:13:58 <xkr47> what :)
Aug 03 12:14:02 <xkr47> ah sorry yeah thx
Aug 03 12:14:12 <xkr47> where are the backups stored ?
Aug 03 12:14:34 <xkr47> I guess I can't just rsync / 1.2.3.4:/ :D
Aug 03 12:14:35 <DocScrutinizer> .backup
Aug 03 12:14:54 <DocScrutinizer> or .backups
Aug 03 12:15:09 <xkr47> .backgrounds ? :)
Aug 03 12:16:30 <xkr47> there is an empty .osso-backup
Aug 03 12:16:37 <DocScrutinizer> home/user/MyDocs/backups even
Aug 03 12:16:50 <xkr47> ooo nice
Aug 03 12:16:53 <xkr47> bingo
Aug 03 12:17:05 <xkr47> nicely in zip files
Aug 03 12:17:09 <DocScrutinizer> yup
Aug 03 12:17:30 <DocScrutinizer> o/ bbl
Aug 03 12:17:33 <xkr47> bb thx
Aug 03 12:19:16 <xkr47> hmm does the encryption garble the zip files so they don't look as zip anymore..
Aug 03 12:23:19 <jhb1> cehteh: thanks for the pointer to monav earlier on. Didn't know about that at all, its awesome!
Aug 03 12:29:40 <DocScrutinizer> (RRLP) a carrier permanently using the "hidden" GPS inquiry features could easily cause "mysterious" battery drain on N900 as well as any other GPS enabled phone
Aug 03 12:30:18 <DocScrutinizer> so when your battery is depleting more quickly than it should, maybe "they" are after you ;-D
Aug 03 12:42:46 <DocScrutinizer51> note that RRLP defines other complementary locating technologies for E911. One of those is "triangulation" which actually is an exact recording of propagation delay of phone TX to 3 (or more) BTS. For this all the neighbour BTS of your servicing BTS need an additional receiver listening and analyzing the RF signal your phone sends to your servicing BTS. This means each BTS needs severel such units, one for each neighbour cell. Allegedl
Aug 03 12:42:46 <DocScrutinizer51> y the technology isn't commonly used due to economic reasons. It however would allow carrier and third parties to locate you with a precision similar to GPS
Aug 03 12:44:08 <RST38h> Facebook's Marketing Director, Randi Zuckerburg, is quoted: 'I think anonymity on the Internet has to go away. People behave a lot better when they have their real names down. I think people hide behind anonymity and they feel like they can say whatever they want behind closed doors.' 
Aug 03 12:44:56 <cehteh> DocScrutinizer: LORAN ftw :P
Aug 03 12:44:58 <RST38h> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randi_Zuckerberg
Aug 03 12:45:26 <hiemanshu> RST38h: randi in hindi means slut :P
Aug 03 12:45:57 <RST38h> hiemanshu: I think you should go and tell her that, on Facebook or something
Aug 03 12:46:14 <RST38h> She will absolutely love it, being a marketing executive
Aug 03 12:46:15 <Arkenoi> as law enforcement have frequent problems with locating criminals precisely enough, it does not seem it is widely deployed here in Russia
Aug 03 12:46:25 <hiemanshu> RST38h: I wish I could
Aug 03 12:46:32 <RST38h> But you can!
Aug 03 12:46:36 <DocScrutinizer51> zuckerberg is a moron and a nazi, obviously
Aug 03 12:47:04 <RST38h> I can understand the moron part, but why a nazi? =)
Aug 03 12:47:04 <DocScrutinizer51> I think, zuckerberg is... :-P
Aug 03 12:47:24 <hiemanshu> RST38h: he doesn't care about the jews? :P
Aug 03 12:47:38 <RST38h> BTW, triangulation is kinda problematic in the setting you have described
Aug 03 12:48:04 <RST38h> Consider those signals reflecting from walls in an urban setting - they are NOT necessarily traveling the direct paths to the tower
Aug 03 12:48:30 <derf> RST38h: That problem is mostly solved.
Aug 03 12:48:37 <RST38h> derf: how?
Aug 03 12:48:40 <derf> Though perhaps not in commercially available products.
Aug 03 12:49:17 <RST38h> is someone creating a map of corrections to be applied to each tower, in each location? :)
Aug 03 12:49:28 <cehteh> there are ways to find out if a signal is a reflection or not and then also approximate the reflections and use them for improving the signal
Aug 03 12:49:38 <DocScrutinizer51> RST38h: uing >3 BTS will kill this issue
Aug 03 12:49:40 <RST38h> hmmm
Aug 03 12:49:45 <RST38h> Doc: Nope
Aug 03 12:49:56 <RST38h> Doc: Actually, based on my personal experience :)
Aug 03 12:50:12 <crashanddie> hiemanshu, I thought it was whore?
Aug 03 12:50:23 <hiemanshu> crashanddie: slut whore, about the same :P
Aug 03 12:50:25 <RST38h> You can't imagine all the funny items a 2.4GHz signal will reflect from =)
Aug 03 12:50:42 <crashanddie> hiemanshu, I just remember "randi ke beesh"
Aug 03 12:50:51 <derf> RST38h: Using stuff like http://www.robomow.ion.org/meetings/abstract.cfm?meetingID=25&pid=174&t=D&s=1
Aug 03 12:50:52 <cehteh> use a teaspoon as dish :P
Aug 03 12:51:00 <hiemanshu> crashanddie: hah, you from india?
Aug 03 12:51:05 <crashanddie> not at all
Aug 03 12:51:21 <crashanddie> but my girlfriend is half korean and grew up in India.
Aug 03 12:51:24 <RST38h> cehteh: metal door handles. car driving 100 meters behind a window. etc.
Aug 03 12:51:25 <hiemanshu> ah
Aug 03 12:51:39 <hiemanshu> crashanddie: its randi ke beej, meaning SOP
Aug 03 12:51:50 <crashanddie> close enough.
Aug 03 12:53:04 <RST38h> derf: Sounds very GPS-specific
Aug 03 12:53:23 <derf> RST38h: It's really not.
Aug 03 12:53:28 <derf> It even says so in the first paragraph.
Aug 03 12:53:37 <RST38h> hm, interesting
Aug 03 12:53:41 <derf> "In this paper, we concentrate on the second topic and present multipath mitigation methods which are equally applicable to GPS and SoOP signals."
Aug 03 12:53:59 * RST38h tries mentally applying it to the simple triangulation problem
Aug 03 12:54:38 <DocScrutinizer51> ~wtf sop
Aug 03 12:54:40 <infobot> SOP: standard operating procedure 
Aug 03 12:54:49 <crashanddie> DocScrutinizer, son of a whore.
Aug 03 12:55:13 <cehteh> RST38h: well, signal processing is quite advanced nowadays
Aug 03 13:00:01 <DocScrutinizer51> point is you can get a non-ambiguous relatively exact triangulation location even with 2 BTS, by just selecting a secondary aka neighbour BTS that doesn't sit in a line with servicing BTS ->phone
Aug 03 13:02:06 <SpeedEvil> GPS multipath is fun!
Aug 03 13:02:18 <DocScrutinizer> with 3 BTS you already have enough redundancy to detect and compensate for reflections. Esp if the reflection issue is known and taken into account by the model of the area's signal properties
Aug 03 13:02:20 <lcuk> multipass
Aug 03 13:02:21 <lcuk> multipass
Aug 03 13:02:42 <SpeedEvil> Especially given that in the urban canyon, it's completely possible to not get any signal at all from a satellite, only the bounces
Aug 03 13:02:52 <RST38h> yep
Aug 03 13:02:56 <SpeedEvil> For example - two buildings, one across the street from another
Aug 03 13:03:15 <SpeedEvil> you stand right next to one, you can't see the GPS satellite behind you.
Aug 03 13:03:37 <SpeedEvil> You can however see the bounce, which has bounced an extra 30m off the building in front of you.
Aug 03 13:03:57 <DocScrutinizer> mirroring, see this all the time
Aug 03 13:04:04 <SpeedEvil> This makes you seem 30m further away from the building you're standing across from.
Aug 03 13:04:22 <SpeedEvil> And can push your position inside the other building across the street.
Aug 03 13:04:45 <SpeedEvil> Worse, in some cases, this can be a persistant effect, which averages to a false position.
Aug 03 13:05:13 <DocScrutinizer> actually your position is mirrored inside the reflecting building, at least that's what I see all the time
Aug 03 13:05:22 <jaska> ive had a gps position change on a statically placed device when walking around in the same room :)
Aug 03 13:05:44 <jaska> as in, device on table, i walk around -> location changes, poor mans passive motion sensor?:)
Aug 03 13:06:06 <DocScrutinizer> GPS RF in a room is highly random
Aug 03 13:06:30 <DocScrutinizer> reflects form building other side of street into your window, etc
Aug 03 13:06:42 <SpeedEvil> jaska: GPS is _really_ funky.
Aug 03 13:06:49 <DocScrutinizer> sure things change as soon as anything inside the room gets changed
Aug 03 13:07:03 <SpeedEvil> jaska: Implementing a GPS with a 300m position error is fairly sane.
Aug 03 13:07:18 <SpeedEvil> jaska: The code is reasonably simple, the orbital calculations are rather annoying.
Aug 03 13:07:23 <SpeedEvil> jaska: But it's pretty easy.
Aug 03 13:07:50 <SpeedEvil> jaska: Getting to within a couple of meters most of the time requires about two orders of magnitude more work.
Aug 03 13:07:56 <SpeedEvil> Maybe 3.
Aug 03 13:08:24 <RST38h> 300m is obtainable with cell tower signals only
Aug 03 13:08:45 <DocScrutinizer> easily
Aug 03 13:09:20 <DocScrutinizer> well, +-275m actually
Aug 03 13:09:49 <DocScrutinizer> with one BTS, no sophisticated triangulations or anything
Aug 03 13:10:05 <DocScrutinizer> o/
Aug 03 13:11:21 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: 300m wasn't arbitrary - the GPS signal 'ticks' at 1MHz.
Aug 03 13:12:11 <SpeedEvil> And the above estimate is for good conditions. To do well in multipath is close to a black art.
Aug 03 14:01:31 <TimmyT> may anyone give me a list of default repositories on maemo? i need repositories of nokia.i've removed them, now i see they're important
Aug 03 14:01:33 <TimmyT> :'(
Aug 03 14:01:56 <pronto> :(
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 03 14:05:28 2011
Aug 03 14:05:29 <andre__> TimmyT, http://fpaste.org/j2wD/
Aug 03 14:06:11 <TimmyT> andre__: tnx a lot :D
Aug 03 14:07:32 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: is time for opening up maemo and create debian-mobile from it!
Aug 03 14:08:00 <chem|st> will take some time to merge but better that than linux foundation idiots
Aug 03 14:08:15 <RST38h> will never happen as debian does not accept closed packages =)
Aug 03 14:09:49 <chem|st> X-Fade: t.m.o fails to offer the cert and thinks it is outdated, browsing once to bugs.m.o fixes it but that's prolly not the way it should be...
Aug 03 14:09:57 <Arkenoi> amazingly enough, ovi.com jabber did not die despite it promised to
Aug 03 14:10:13 <chem|st> RST38h: ? there is non-free you know?!
Aug 03 14:11:06 <chem|st> RST38h: lots of closed drivers in debian - just look at amd or nvidia graphics stuff...
Aug 03 14:11:42 <chem|st> RST38h: or do you mean the package itself closed?!
Aug 03 14:12:20 <chem|st> RST38h: and which part of "open up" did fail on your system check
Aug 03 14:16:06 <DocScrutinizer51> chem|st: maemo blobs are highly unlikely to 'open up'
Aug 03 14:18:36 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer51: I know :(
Aug 03 14:19:08 * Gh0sty takes a hammer, lets see how fast they'll 'open up' now! 
Aug 03 14:20:16 <Gh0sty> its too bad that parts of it are still not what it's supposed to be
Aug 03 14:20:27 <Shapeshifter> By the way... A big problem for keeping maemo up to date are the closed blobs which won't run with a newer kernel. Isn't there a way of wrapping these modules? I can't find any sort of kernel module wrapper that would work across versions, but the general idea would be just like ndiswrapper. Is this so hard?
Aug 03 14:20:33 <Gh0sty> like why do I need external party to sync my calendar with google calendar? :/ 
Aug 03 14:20:39 <Gh0sty> mail for exchange failure! 
Aug 03 14:20:51 <Gh0sty> even my E65 could do it! :(
Aug 03 14:23:00 <DocScrutinizer51> Shapeshifter: *should* be feasible, just nobody thought about such botch yet
Aug 03 14:31:02 <Shapeshifter> So I installed kernel-power because I needed iptables. I'm not in the least interested in overclocking, however I noticed that my n900 uses more battery now. I looked into it and I'm not sure but I think it's stuck at 600mhz or something. kernel-config show shows me max. frequency: 600 but also current frequency: 600
Aug 03 14:31:22 <Shapeshifter>  /etc/default/kernel-power like the wiki says doesn't exist.
Aug 03 14:31:30 <Shapeshifter> where do I configure this thing?
Aug 03 14:32:10 <Shapeshifter> or is there another kernel which just cares for the missing features and does none of this overclocking business?
Aug 03 14:32:39 <ruskie> Shapeshifter, well I roll my own with stuff I want
Aug 03 14:32:56 <ShadowJK> Many things that claim to check current cpu frequency use so much cpu themselves that they trigger the cpu to run at 600
Aug 03 14:34:19 <DocScrutinizer> afaik PK should be clean wrt cpuclock, ootb
Aug 03 14:34:55 <DocScrutinizer> ask Pali 
Aug 03 14:36:01 <DocScrutinizer> max 600 is ok, there's *some* file *somewhere* ;-) that has the allowable freq etc
Aug 03 14:36:30 <DocScrutinizer> leme find it for you
Aug 03 14:37:05 <Pali> Shapeshifter: With console program kernel-config (in package kernel-power-settings) you can overclock/underlock cpu/dsp
Aug 03 14:37:22 <Pali> kernel-config also set /etc/default/kernel-power
Aug 03 14:38:26 <Shapeshifter> Pali: /etc/default/kernel-power doesn't exist and kernel-config isn't exactly great. No -h, --help... The wiki doesn't help either.
Aug 03 14:38:50 <Shapeshifter> Pali: the wiki says I can load and save and whatever, but there's no template.
Aug 03 14:39:05 <DocScrutinizer> etc/pmconfig
Aug 03 14:39:17 <Pali> run kernel-config without args (for help)
Aug 03 14:39:48 <Pali> I think that is not good idea to modify pmconfig in kernel-power
Aug 03 14:40:01 <Shapeshifter> Pali: mh
Aug 03 14:41:01 <DocScrutinizer> scaling_governor ondemand
Aug 03 14:41:03 <DocScrutinizer> scaling_max_freq 600000
Aug 03 14:41:04 <DocScrutinizer> scaling_min_freq 125000
Aug 03 14:41:24 <Pali> kernel-power also installs scripts which is started on boot (and it use own settings) so modified pmconfig maybe has no effect
Aug 03 14:41:35 <Shapeshifter> Pali: Okay I didn't change any defaults, and Idea why my n900 is using more battery? Also, powertop shows me that the cpu stays in state C3 a lot of time. is that normal? And I'm especially wondering about powertop telling me it's spending 3.3% of the time in C0 at 1150Mhz
Aug 03 14:42:03 <Shapeshifter> C0 3.3%, C1 0.0%, C2 27.6%, C3 67.4%, C4 1.7%
Aug 03 14:42:24 <Shapeshifter> or maybe I'm reading the table wrong
Aug 03 14:42:29 <Pali> /etc/default/kernel-power should be only symlink to config file (which set and configure app kernel-config)
Aug 03 14:42:32 <DocScrutinizer> seems there's a fat huge bug in PK, since max v45. Heard same complaints several times now
Aug 03 14:42:55 <Shapeshifter> meh I'll uninstall it.
Aug 03 14:43:07 <DocScrutinizer> Shapeshifter: powertop fails on PK
Aug 03 14:43:42 <Shapeshifter> How else can I read out state ratios?
Aug 03 14:43:55 <DocScrutinizer> proc or sys
Aug 03 14:43:59 <DocScrutinizer> I guess
Aug 03 14:44:06 <Pali> Sorry but I did not read all patches in kernel-power, maybe there is something bad with battery (as bad i2c patch)
Aug 03 14:44:37 <Shapeshifter> Pali: do you know if the uninstall guide for it is up to date?
Aug 03 14:44:43 <Shapeshifter> in the wiki
Aug 03 14:45:03 <DocScrutinizer> Shapeshifter: uninstall what?
Aug 03 14:45:05 <Pali> I tried clean some patches and drop not used in my git tree
Aug 03 14:45:13 <Pali> I do not know what is written on wiki
Aug 03 14:45:16 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer: kernel-power
Aug 03 14:45:36 <DocScrutinizer> you NEVER uninstall a kernel - you install a new kernel
Aug 03 14:45:38 <Pali> but uninstalling kernel-power should work from Menu
Aug 03 14:45:51 <Shapeshifter> It says I need to do apt-get install --reinstall -y kernel kernel-flasher; apt-get remove -y kernel-power kernel-power-modules
Aug 03 14:45:53 <DocScrutinizer> Pali: afaik it doesn't
Aug 03 14:46:03 <Pali> in <= v47 should be entry Deinstall
Aug 03 14:46:16 <Pali> and in >= v48 is entry Nokia Kernel
Aug 03 14:46:37 <DocScrutinizer> Shapeshifter: sounds about correct
Aug 03 14:46:59 <Pali> but this only reflash stock kernel: apt-get install --reinstall -y kernel kernel-flasher
Aug 03 14:47:48 <Pali> and this (when stock is working and booting) remove kernel-power from system: apt-get remove -y kernel-power kernel-power-modules kernel-power-flasher
Aug 03 14:48:51 <DocScrutinizer> I'd install kernel-modules as well
Aug 03 14:48:55 <DocScrutinizer> just in case
Aug 03 14:52:01 <Shapeshifter> man the power meter sure is inaccurate.
Aug 03 14:53:07 <DocScrutinizer> powe meter?
Aug 03 14:53:45 <Shapeshifter> battery power
Aug 03 14:54:06 <Shapeshifter> even plain experience is a better indicator of how much battery is left than this thing
Aug 03 14:54:30 <DocScrutinizer> LOL
Aug 03 14:55:20 <DocScrutinizer> does it have a seal "approved by DocScrutinizer, master of batteries"? No? see!
Aug 03 14:55:49 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer: so how's that bme replacement coming?
Aug 03 14:55:55 <Shapeshifter> I'm hardly up to date
Aug 03 14:57:10 <DocScrutinizer> Shapeshifter: project got binned when it became obvious it's leading nowhere, at least for maemo
Aug 03 14:57:27 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer: why is that?
Aug 03 14:58:22 <Shapeshifter> ruskie: for compiling your own kernel, does this guide look okay to you? http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Kernel_Guide I will need to do that for iptables support...
Aug 03 14:59:02 <DocScrutinizer> ~jrbme is http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1006716&postcount=806
Aug 03 14:59:02 <infobot> okay, DocScrutinizer
Aug 03 15:00:50 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer: what's h-e-n?
Aug 03 15:00:59 <DocScrutinizer> ~h-e-n
Aug 03 15:00:59 <infobot> hostmode is probably http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232, or see ~hostmode-charging
Aug 03 15:01:32 <ruskie> Shapeshifter, I use this guide http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Kernel
Aug 03 15:01:52 <Shapeshifter> ruskie: thanks
Aug 03 15:03:25 <ruskie> Shapeshifter, though none of his scripts
Aug 03 15:03:51 <TimmyT> this is the list of repositories i've added in my phone:http://pastebin.com/cugW20YK   when i run apt-get update i get this errors:http://pastebin.com/GsT66158 . whats its problem?
Aug 03 15:04:38 <ruskie> you only really want the fremantle ones
Aug 03 15:04:43 <ruskie> and you're missing the repository key
Aug 03 15:14:29 <DocScrutinizer> yes, diablo is not fremantle, diablo is for N8x0
Aug 03 15:14:50 <DocScrutinizer> no idea though about the pubkeys for Nokia repos
Aug 03 15:15:42 <DocScrutinizer> I wonder how they could be gone, first instance (the Nokia repos)
Aug 03 15:17:02 <DocScrutinizer> TimmyT: I also doubt https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle1.2/ovi/ is actually useful for a PR1.3 system
Aug 03 15:17:49 <pavi> Why is still http://maemo.nokia.com/ on the topic ? its a broken page , maybe a link to a http://web.archive.org/web/20091229194029/http://maemo.nokia.com/  ( links wont work )
Aug 03 15:18:16 <DocScrutinizer> diablo gregale chinook bora scirocco mistral  W*T*F!?!
Aug 03 15:19:24 <javispedro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo#Naming
Aug 03 15:19:35 <DocScrutinizer> Pali: indeed
Aug 03 15:19:38 <DocScrutinizer> :-S
Aug 03 15:20:04 <javispedro> just remove it, there was nothing useful there
Aug 03 15:20:18 <TimmyT> javispedro: remove wat?
Aug 03 15:20:26 <javispedro> link to maemo.nokia.com
Aug 03 15:20:29 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: I know what those names' meanings are, I just wonder how you could get to include all into one apt repo list
Aug 03 15:21:01 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: ah, ok, just saw the pastebin.
Aug 03 15:21:08 <javispedro> lol.
Aug 03 15:21:35 <javispedro> TimmyT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo#Naming
Aug 03 15:23:26 <DocScrutinizer> MEH
Aug 03 15:23:49 <kerio> HEM
Aug 03 15:26:34 <DocScrutinizer> TimmyT: what'S been wrong with [2011-08-03 16:04:41] <andre__> TimmyT, http://fpaste.org/j2wD/  ??
Aug 03 15:28:23 <pavi> javispedro, just went to the wikipedia page ,some one mentions about a KDE4 port , " KDE 4 is being ported at the present time."  will KDE4 work on N900 ?
Aug 03 15:29:13 <DocScrutinizer> wy not? question is can you actually *use* it
Aug 03 15:29:32 <DocScrutinizer> why
Aug 03 15:29:56 <DocScrutinizer> *yawn* 
Aug 03 15:30:46 * DocScrutinizer hates summer with those long days, with the evil daystar...
Aug 03 15:31:18 <pavi> I mean is KDE4 on maemo repo ?
Aug 03 15:31:26 <pavi> or some tweaking necessary ?
Aug 03 15:31:31 <DocScrutinizer> prolly not
Aug 03 15:32:19 <DocScrutinizer> I'd guess if you can run KDE on maemo, then in a chroot similar to easydebian
Aug 03 15:32:47 <pavi> I have easydebian installed . I think I better do apt-get install KDE on that
Aug 03 15:32:58 <DocScrutinizer> I mean kwin != hildon desktop manager
Aug 03 15:33:23 <pavi> yes its different , so how will it work ?
Aug 03 15:33:35 <pavi> or am I sounding too dumb ??
Aug 03 15:33:42 <DocScrutinizer> and without a real mouse KDE might get tedious on N900
Aug 03 15:34:09 <DocScrutinizer> pavi: that's not a dumb but rather an interesting question
Aug 03 15:34:34 <pavi> I havent yet tried XFCE
Aug 03 15:34:56 <DocScrutinizer> pavi: look, marble is a KDE app ported to maemo/hildon
Aug 03 15:36:37 <DocScrutinizer> depending on what the maintainer did while "porting KDE to N900" you may find all sorts of adaptions, from plain KDE desktop running in a chroot (and basically unusable due to way too small buttons and menu ebntries etc), to KDE apps completely ported to hildon, like marble
Aug 03 15:36:56 <pavi> yeah strangely I havent touched those desktop apps , only checked out iceweasel and openoffice . My uncle who wants MS office on every damn phone was happy to see OO !
Aug 03 15:37:45 <pavi> DocScrutinizer, what about Kubuntu mobile edition , how does it differ ?
Aug 03 15:37:51 <Shapeshifter> the n900 is too slow for most of that stuff imo
Aug 03 15:37:56 <Shapeshifter> unless you like waiting around
Aug 03 15:38:07 <DocScrutinizer> never looked into OOo for N900, as it nevver occured to me to do this class of work on a <5" screen
Aug 03 15:38:24 <pavi> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/ARM/n900/
Aug 03 15:39:19 <DocScrutinizer> pavi: that's probably a complete OS meant to get booted (or chroot) on the ARM target platform
Aug 03 15:40:13 <DocScrutinizer> I'll not look into buntkuh on N900, I even avoid touching it on x86
Aug 03 15:40:14 <Shapeshifter> I applaud that
Aug 03 15:40:45 <pavi> same here , kubuntu uses its own kde builds which I hate
Aug 03 15:42:43 <DocScrutinizer> pavi: worse, buntkuh has too many "new awesome stuff" that's not at all in line with a standard linux. E.G. they were the first ones to push upstart IIRC
Aug 03 15:42:54 <DocScrutinizer> I more or less hate upstart
Aug 03 15:43:41 <Shapeshifter> unity is a bad joke
Aug 03 15:43:48 <DocScrutinizer> (this changed a bit since I learned Lennart also doesn't like upstart and plans to replace upstart with again sth new)
Aug 03 15:46:03 <DocScrutinizer> aiui suse systemV init implemented dependencies and parallelism since ~10 years. So I don't exactly see why we need upstart, even less I see why we need something new replacing upstart AND sysV-init
Aug 03 15:47:48 <DocScrutinizer> on maemo we got an abomination of a chimera of upstart events and sysV init scripts
Aug 03 15:48:08 <DocScrutinizer> I guess this is the way all upstart systems look like
Aug 03 15:48:09 <javispedro> it's worse on harmattan =)
Aug 03 15:49:50 <fusi> winrars and good word
Aug 03 15:50:00 <DocScrutinizer> I'm *really* keen to see Poettering's startupd (or whatever it's called) with upstart events *and* sysV initscripts on top as icing - UAERGH!
Aug 03 15:52:45 <DocScrutinizer> again a useless layer of abstraction over an existing working system (here sysV/upstart), just like PA is a useless layer of abstraction over ALSA, while it started to replace ALSA by sth "better" - I'm not seeing poettering to ever deliver on that one, nor on startupd
Aug 03 15:52:53 <fusi> how many maemo developers are there?
Aug 03 15:54:26 <DocScrutinizer> 514799
Aug 03 15:54:29 <fusi> afternoon btw ^^
Aug 03 15:54:35 <pavi> I screwed up my easy debian chroot by deleting some dpkg directory , what do I do now ?
Aug 03 15:54:43 <fusi> cry
Aug 03 15:54:52 <pavi> good one
Aug 03 15:54:55 <fusi> ;D
Aug 03 15:55:08 <fusi> dont know sorry
Aug 03 15:55:15 <fusi> ive never done that myself
Aug 03 15:55:15 <pavi> I removed /var/lib/dpkg/status
Aug 03 15:55:47 <fusi> does dpkg run
Aug 03 15:57:43 <DocScrutinizer> pavi: I guess you're screwed
Aug 03 15:58:03 <pavi> DocScrutinizer, nopes asking in #debian :P
Aug 03 15:58:07 <DocScrutinizer> your system may stll work, just apt etc won't
Aug 03 15:58:13 <pavi> there is something called status_old
Aug 03 15:58:20 <DocScrutinizer> hey
Aug 03 15:58:25 <DocScrutinizer> there is?
Aug 03 15:58:44 <fusi> wahey!
Aug 03 15:58:48 <DocScrutinizer> indeed
Aug 03 15:58:49 <pavi> yep I have it an dlot of data in it
Aug 03 15:59:04 <fusi> someone actually got useful advice from a linux irc chan :O
Aug 03 15:59:09 <fusi> ;
Aug 03 15:59:11 <fusi> ;D
Aug 03 15:59:57 <pavi> fusi, that someone knows how to ask :P
Aug 03 16:00:13 <idont> exit
Aug 03 16:00:21 <idont> woops, wrong window focus
Aug 03 16:00:47 <DocScrutinizer> ~debian pavi 
Aug 03 16:00:47 * infobot tells pavi to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Aug 03 16:00:53 <DocScrutinizer> ;-P
Aug 03 16:00:54 <fusi> haha
Aug 03 16:00:57 <trx> lol
Aug 03 16:01:24 <fusi> yea thats generally my experience ^^
Aug 03 16:01:45 <pavi> lol , yeah we should read before asking ,learnt the hard way , no issues
Aug 03 16:01:48 <DocScrutinizer> ~ubuntu trx
Aug 03 16:01:48 * infobot lovingly explains to trx in a way that causes trx to weep with gratitude that trx must read the fine, friendly manual
Aug 03 16:02:15 <fusi> infobts back (:
Aug 03 16:02:32 <DocScrutinizer> ~+uptime
Aug 03 16:02:33 <infobot> - Uptime for infobot -
Aug 03 16:02:33 <infobot> Now: 9h 44m 24s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux
Aug 03 16:02:33 <infobot> 1: 59d 8h 41m 19s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Sun Nov 14 18:39:57 2010
Aug 03 16:02:33 <infobot> 2: 57d 3h 9m 23s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Fri Jun 26 20:39:27 2009
Aug 03 16:02:34 <infobot> 3: 36d 20h 47m 14s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Tue Aug  4 17:38:59 2009
Aug 03 16:02:42 <fusi> yay
Aug 03 16:03:47 <trx> ~botsnack
Aug 03 16:03:47 <infobot> :), trx
Aug 03 16:03:58 <trx> bots :)
Aug 03 16:04:03 <pavi> DocScrutinizer, you are misusing infobot  to spread FUD on debian 
Aug 03 16:04:11 <DocScrutinizer> haha
Aug 03 16:04:20 <fusi> rofl
Aug 03 16:04:35 <pavi> DocScrutinizer, by the way next weekend I am going to Minidebconf Pune,India :)
Aug 03 16:04:45 <pavi> Will show N900 to everyone !!
Aug 03 16:05:17 <pavi> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianIndia/MiniDebConf2011/FAQ
Aug 03 16:05:50 <DocScrutinizer> pavi: the trick will be you start laughing first, when they try to impress you with their rooted iPhones and andridiot crap
Aug 03 16:08:16 <pavi> No not many people here  in india root their phones
Aug 03 16:08:46 <pavi> and also there are less smart phone usage
Aug 03 16:13:54 <fusi> 17:03 < pavi> Will show N900 to everyone !!
Aug 03 16:13:57 <fusi> yea!
Aug 03 16:14:26 <fusi> rooted iPhones bwaha
Aug 03 16:15:24 <pavi> :)
Aug 03 16:16:06 <pavi> fusi, in a debian event N900 is always appreciated . In a 'shopping teen girls' event iphone is the god
Aug 03 16:18:27 <fusi> indeed
Aug 03 16:19:18 <fusi> indeedi can ony assume ppl ho own them to be ignorant
Aug 03 16:19:33 <pavi> damn that dpkg_status is corrupted , removing lines manually seeing a sample output of apt-cache show somepackage
Aug 03 16:19:48 <fusi> eep
Aug 03 16:22:13 <fusi> hmm
Aug 03 16:22:43 <fusi> is possible to spawn a modal dialog from a telepathy-haze plugin options dialog?
Aug 03 16:22:59 <fusi> need to get the user to enter thier pin somewhere
Aug 03 16:48:16 <RST38h> Anyone knows howI can restart scratchbox? It stopped finding moc
Aug 03 17:07:33 <reenignEesreveR> can i bulk download all the webos compatible games?
Aug 03 17:10:45 <TimmyT> Zahra: hey are u there?
Aug 03 17:10:57 <TimmyT> Zahra: fvahid says he likes you a lot
Aug 03 17:11:20 <TimmyT> Zahra: he says he wants to talk to you 
Aug 03 17:12:57 <TimmyT> Zahra: u there? he says he luvs u
Aug 03 17:14:51 <reenignEesreveR> ummm.... wondering if im really on freenode and not on dalnet
Aug 03 17:18:06 <TimmyT> ppl in #debian ro so unfriendly and in #slackware so friendly, dunnu if it is forbiden to talk friendly here or not
Aug 03 17:22:06 <Sicelo> it has been said here before that nothing is OT unless someone else complains, or it's getting in the way of assistance being given
Aug 03 17:22:24 <Sicelo> so we're friendly here, but :/
Aug 03 17:22:31 <Sicelo> disciplined too
Aug 03 17:23:16 <Zahra> being not friendly with these kinds of stupids is better 
Aug 03 17:24:32 * pavi is trying out meego CE 
Aug 03 17:24:44 <reenignEesreveR> i have a lot of repositories kkudged up in my mobile
Aug 03 17:24:54 <reenignEesreveR> how can i fix it so them i have bare minimum
Aug 03 17:25:04 <reenignEesreveR> could someone plz share their repos config?
Aug 03 17:25:32 * pavi is shocked to see rpm replacing deb and zypper replacing apt-get 
Aug 03 17:25:50 * reenignEesreveR is shocked to hear that!
Aug 03 17:26:05 <reenignEesreveR> isn't meego debian based too?
Aug 03 17:26:38 <pavi> reenignEesreveR, from what I heard novell has its influence over meego 
Aug 03 17:28:12 <reenignEesreveR> hmmm...
Aug 03 17:28:19 <fusi> est way to invoke browser instance from c code in linux?
Aug 03 17:28:21 <fusi> b
Aug 03 17:28:34 <fusi> execvp? :X
Aug 03 17:28:36 <fusi> system()?
Aug 03 17:29:06 <reenignEesreveR> is /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list the only file controlling repositories?
Aug 03 17:29:07 <Sicelo> reenignEesreveR: meego rpm-based
Aug 03 17:29:38 <reenignEesreveR> im talking about aemo
Aug 03 17:29:55 <reenignEesreveR> gotta fix my screwed up repsotiroes
Aug 03 17:30:50 <reenignEesreveR> could someone please help me fix my repos on n900 ???
Aug 03 17:31:44 <pavi> whats there to fix ? have you root terminal ?
Aug 03 17:31:49 <reenignEesreveR> yup
Aug 03 17:32:04 <pavi> then try apt-get update and see what happens
Aug 03 17:32:06 <reenignEesreveR> it takes about 10 minutes to do an apt-get update
Aug 03 17:32:14 <pavi> ahh connect to wifi
Aug 03 17:32:22 <reenignEesreveR> i already am
Aug 03 17:32:31 <reenignEesreveR> i think it is looking up many repositories 
Aug 03 17:32:36 <cehteh> how many repos do you have enabled?
Aug 03 17:32:39 <reenignEesreveR> i need to get myself to minimum
Aug 03 17:32:46 <reenignEesreveR> some friends tinkered around with my n900
Aug 03 17:32:50 <reenignEesreveR> i need to get rid of them
Aug 03 17:32:53 <cehteh> with extras, testing, devel, cssu and so on it may be quite slow sometimes
Aug 03 17:32:59 <cehteh> lol
Aug 03 17:33:06 <reenignEesreveR> *them = repos :D
Aug 03 17:33:08 <cehteh> never give your n900 away :P
Aug 03 17:33:17 <reenignEesreveR> anyhow
Aug 03 17:33:24 <reenignEesreveR> i need only extras and extras-devel
Aug 03 17:33:40 <pavi> go to /etc/apt/ and check out config files 
Aug 03 17:33:44 <pavi> edit remove them
Aug 03 17:34:03 <reenignEesreveR> are all repos found in /etc/apt/ ?
Aug 03 17:34:13 <pavi> yep ! 
Aug 03 17:34:30 <pavi> I dont think its the simple /etc/apt/sources.list 
Aug 03 17:34:44 <pavi> it is in some folder I guess
Aug 03 17:34:58 <pavi> but inside /etc/apt/ for sure
Aug 03 17:35:06 <reenignEesreveR> the only file i see having repostories is  /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list
Aug 03 17:35:11 <reenignEesreveR> and i have five entries
Aug 03 17:35:32 <pavi> list them out 
Aug 03 17:36:06 <reenignEesreveR> first three are downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle ....  1.2/ovi, /ssy/mo0, /ssu/apps
Aug 03 17:36:24 <reenignEesreveR> the other two are extras and exras-devel from maemo.org
Aug 03 17:36:55 <reenignEesreveR> are the first three necessary?
Aug 03 17:37:15 <pavi> nokia stuff is necessary for sure
Aug 03 17:37:44 <reenignEesreveR> then i think i already am on minimum
Aug 03 17:38:37 <reenignEesreveR> but mainly the problem is with downloads.maemo.nokia.com related repos ... they take long to get updated
Aug 03 17:38:55 <reenignEesreveR> conssequently using app manager applicationsalso become very slow
Aug 03 17:39:32 <ruskie> reenignEesreveR, it's already slow... not just because of that
Aug 03 17:41:32 <pavi> I think that ovi repo could be disabled if you dont want any ovi stuff
Aug 03 17:42:05 <reenignEesreveR> have you ever found anything useful on ovi store?
Aug 03 17:42:21 <pavi> lemme guess Angry birds ?
Aug 03 17:42:35 <reenignEesreveR> anything else?
Aug 03 17:42:53 <pavi> jurrasic roller coaster game
Aug 03 17:48:41 <reenignEesreveR> i guess my use of ovi is limited to angry birds
Aug 03 17:48:55 <reenignEesreveR> and i can live without it now after playing the same levels over almost two years
Aug 03 17:50:03 <reenignEesreveR> i have a background process "trackerd" which hijacks my drive
Aug 03 17:50:08 <reenignEesreveR> can't i disable this service?
Aug 03 17:50:29 <RST38h> https://picasaweb.google.com/luarvique/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCKaR39fjs8PNgAE#5636687252037733650
Aug 03 17:51:56 <reenignEesreveR> :O
Aug 03 17:52:09 <wmarone> wow, latest FF beta for maemo is... not trashing my device
Aug 03 17:52:44 <cehteh> haha
Aug 03 17:52:44 <hiemanshu> SpeedEvil: Hi, we are extending the meego.com N950 device program with 50 additional pieces received from Nokia. Have a look at http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia/N950_Extended_Program
Aug 03 17:52:47 <hiemanshu> guve ut a trt
Aug 03 17:52:53 <hiemanshu> give it a try*
Aug 03 17:52:55 <cehteh> wmarone: still slower than microb?
Aug 03 17:53:01 <reenignEesreveR> http://downloads.maemo..nokia.com/ public key is not available :(
Aug 03 17:53:11 <wmarone> cehteh: shockingly, it's giving microb a run for its money
Aug 03 17:53:25 <reenignEesreveR> received this error while doing an apt-get update ... the suggested remedy is to run apt-get update
Aug 03 17:58:02 <pavi> reenignEesreveR, you can ignore the key 
Aug 03 17:58:19 <pavi> now you will be able to install stuff ( with a warning)
Aug 03 18:01:42 <SpeedEvil> hiemanshu: Thanks for the note.
Aug 03 18:05:25 <reenignEesreveR> is it illegal to ask "how can i download all the FREE compatible webos games" ?
Aug 03 18:06:06 <SpeedEvil> No, are there any free webos games? And I'm unsure if anyone's packaged them.
Aug 03 18:06:32 <ds3> doesn't webos run flash and as such...
Aug 03 18:06:35 <hiemanshu> no free games, not for sale either, but there are ways to get it
Aug 03 18:07:28 <ds3> Ob complaint - why is it no other mobile OS/UI setup besides PalmOS has even come close to being as useful as maemo?
Aug 03 18:07:53 <ds3> Android on faster hardware just chokes whereas the N900 just keeps chugging along
Aug 03 18:08:08 <reenignEesreveR> ds3, n900 isn't battery friendly as well
Aug 03 18:08:34 <wmarone> hm
Aug 03 18:08:48 <wmarone> I wonder if installing adblock isn't what kills ff mobile's performance...
Aug 03 18:08:57 <ruskie> 4days
Aug 03 18:09:41 <reenignEesreveR> in an android's architecture's talk, he mentioned the rationale behind the their activity models which is essentially a multitasking killer .. but he was spot on when he said that the biggest concern to  the mobile user is his battery; mobile apps developers don't and can't write power optimized code. 
Aug 03 18:09:50 <ruskie> is how long my n900 lasts on battery
Aug 03 18:10:04 <reenignEesreveR> schools teach cpu optimization, memory optimization but power optimization is unheard
Aug 03 18:10:08 <ruskie> reenignEesreveR, they are to lazy
Aug 03 18:10:25 <reenignEesreveR> so they gave a transparent framework to the developers which does power management largely itself
Aug 03 18:10:53 <reenignEesreveR> and it is true, android's battery life is generally much more than n900
Aug 03 18:11:35 <reenignEesreveR> when i am using my n900 really well, it drains in couple of hours
Aug 03 18:11:42 <reenignEesreveR> the issue is probably not with hardware but the OS
Aug 03 18:12:01 <reenignEesreveR> anyhow
Aug 03 18:12:13 <reenignEesreveR> hiemanshu, so where/how can i get those games?
Aug 03 18:13:03 <hiemanshu> reenignEesreveR: you will have to find them yourself, a google search will help a lot
Aug 03 18:13:27 <reenignEesreveR> what would be the recommendgoogle search? :)
Aug 03 18:13:37 <reenignEesreveR> well ... 
Aug 03 18:13:50 <reenignEesreveR> i just wanna be on the legally safe side ... thats about it
Aug 03 18:27:55 <LarsN> *boggle*
Aug 03 18:28:08 <LarsN> that's twice now the microusb port has broken off the mainboard in my N900.
Aug 03 18:28:12 <ds3> reenignEsreveR: N900 is extremely battery friendly compared to the other stuff out there
Aug 03 18:28:42 <ds3> android's activity model blows major chunks
Aug 03 18:28:52 <ds3> it is flawed to no end
Aug 03 18:28:57 <LarsN> sending the phone to squaretrade for a second repair.  This time with a note to epoxy the connector to the mainboard rather than just the four tiny solder points.
Aug 03 18:29:24 <LarsN> ds3: you know I really like the N900, but having also had a Nexus One, I can't say the N900 is any more efficient when it comes to battery life.
Aug 03 18:29:43 <LarsN> if i use either phone for "work" like tasks, both drain the battery pretty quickly if I'm not on 802.11
Aug 03 18:29:50 <ds3> LarsN: I believe the Nexus One has a bigger battery, IIRC
Aug 03 18:30:41 <LarsN> ds3: 1400mah vs 1325mah
Aug 03 18:30:49 <LarsN> nearly the same imho :)
Aug 03 18:31:09 <ds3> Android is just unusable - N900 with the OMAP3430 vs an Archos tablet with the OMAP3640. and I can get the archos to choke 
Aug 03 18:31:12 <LarsN> but you're right, the N1 did have a slightly larger battery.
Aug 03 18:31:24 <fusi> how do i load a new browser instance from c code in maemo?
Aug 03 18:31:35 <ds3> LarsN: still bigger. my problem with the Activity model is you are screwed if there are any bugs in the program
Aug 03 18:31:37 <fusi> system("browser --url=blah") does not return
Aug 03 18:31:54 <ds3> i.e. going to some web pages can foo bar the browser til it either dies completely or you have to reboot
Aug 03 18:32:03 <LarsN> ds3: I'd agree, with anything slower than the 1ghz snapdragon, and android 2.1 or greater is really really anemic from an end-user performance standpoint.
Aug 03 18:32:10 <ds3> being able to kill -9 browserd and browser is a major asset
Aug 03 18:32:30 <LarsN> I'm not defending Android here..  :)
Aug 03 18:32:37 <ds3> LarsN: that's the thing... the N900 actually preforms tolerably unlike the A101
Aug 03 18:32:58 <ds3> maybe it is background crap that I can't turn off but Android blows
Aug 03 18:33:17 <LarsN> I do think from an "appliance" standpoint Android is a better platform.  the N900 reminds me very much of all things linux (ubuntu maybe excepted)  in that, it can do nearly anything, and well.  but it requires a lot of fscking around....
Aug 03 18:33:17 <ds3> this is an opinion I am coming to after using it in the field 
Aug 03 18:33:30 <LarsN> if you like, or at least don't mind tinkering, the N900 is an amazing device :)
Aug 03 18:33:45 <LarsN> provided your micro usb port doesn't break twice in a month.
Aug 03 18:33:48 <ds3> LarsN: have you tried using and Android device as your primary device in the field ?
Aug 03 18:33:59 <ds3> s/and/an/
Aug 03 18:33:59 <infobot> ds3 meant: LarsN: have you tried using an Android device as your primary device in the field ?
Aug 03 18:34:30 <ds3> the N900 is actually useable in that context unlike the A101
Aug 03 18:34:38 <LarsN> ds3: the N1 was my primary hand held device for a year....  with a tethered netbook as a fallback in case of serious intervention...
Aug 03 18:34:53 <LarsN> I'm a unix adminstrator for a hosting company.  typing command line syntax on either device sucks. :)
Aug 03 18:35:04 <LarsN> pipes especially. :)
Aug 03 18:35:32 <LarsN> WiFi tethering was better on the N1.  (it supported WPA out of the box)
Aug 03 18:35:54 <LarsN> having a physical keyboard, a real terminal, and the ability to VNC to or from my phone on the N900 trumps that.
Aug 03 18:35:57 <ds3> the terminal software with soft keys for '|' makes ssh usable on N900
Aug 03 18:35:57 <Shapeshifter> Is there some way to symlink or otherwise link a directory from outside of scratchbox to inside the users home? I don't want to do my development inside a scratchbox directory, hence I tried something like ln -s /mnt/temp/vault/devel/python/flatmail/ /mnt/ext/s-1500-galaxy/stuff_exile/t_code/maemo_2011/scratchbox/users/shapeshifter/home/shapeshifter/flatmail but inside scratchbox (where the symlink shows up fine with ls -lah) I can't ...
Aug 03 18:36:04 <Shapeshifter> ... cd into it: bash: cd: flatmail: No such file or directory
Aug 03 18:36:07 <ds3> the Android side can't even handly ctrl properly
Aug 03 18:36:28 <Shapeshifter> ds3: wth do you mean by unusable?
Aug 03 18:36:33 <LarsN> yeah...  double press the scroll wheel (which was otherwise never used....) for a control..
Aug 03 18:36:38 <LarsN> was terrible.
Aug 03 18:36:41 <Shapeshifter> ds3: you can bind | to whatever key combo you want
Aug 03 18:37:02 <fusi> is there a channel on here for maemo developers?
Aug 03 18:37:03 <Shapeshifter> mine's on fn+x
Aug 03 18:37:08 <LarsN> Shapeshifter: on a touch screen only device the simple truth is, unix administraion is for the birds. :)
Aug 03 18:37:16 <Shapeshifter> LarsN: oh of course
Aug 03 18:37:26 <Shapeshifter> ds3 seems to be talking about the n900?
Aug 03 18:37:31 <ds3> Shapeshifter:opening images chokes on Android if they are large or too many or .... N900 just does it
Aug 03 18:37:35 <LarsN> Shapeshifter: we were comparing and contrasting my experinces between the N900 and My older Nexus 1
Aug 03 18:37:39 <Shapeshifter> ahh
Aug 03 18:37:51 <Shapeshifter> ds3: ah sorry. I read 'unusable'
Aug 03 18:37:58 <Shapeshifter> instead of 'usable'. I'll be quiet :<
Aug 03 18:38:08 <LarsN> really doing any serious administration (beyond restarting services etc.) usually causes me to break out a real terminal.
Aug 03 18:38:18 <ds3> Shapeshifter: on android it IS unusable!
Aug 03 18:38:50 <Shapeshifter> ds3: I agree
Aug 03 18:38:54 <LarsN> when I get my phone back from repairs, I'm going to factory reset it.
Aug 03 18:38:58 <ds3> I have done command line troubleshooting with the N900 terminal. it is quite doable
Aug 03 18:39:17 <ds3> for some reason systems like breaking only when you have traveled 600miles away from them!
Aug 03 18:39:22 <LarsN> and see if I can finally get integration with our SOGo Calendar server, and my GMAIL calendar working correctly.  (bi-directional.)
Aug 03 18:39:35 <LarsN> ds3: it CAN be done.
Aug 03 18:39:50 <LarsN> but it's much nicer to just tether to a 10" netbook and type on a real keyboard....  wouldn't you agree? :)
Aug 03 18:39:53 <ds3> LarsN: just for reference, I have also used the HP48 as a terminal for sysadmin work ;)
Aug 03 18:40:13 <ds3> not really... my 10" netbook is infected with Ubuntu
Aug 03 18:40:35 <LarsN> mine's running Pc-BSD
Aug 03 18:40:58 <ds3> I really want to do away with the netbook which is why I got the 10" tablet
Aug 03 18:41:03 <LarsN> 95% of the servers I manage are running FreeBSD, it was a natural fit.
Aug 03 18:41:25 <ds3> bbl, lunch
Aug 03 18:46:12 <GeneralAntilles> SpeedEvil, ping?
Aug 03 18:46:38 <SpeedEvil> pong
Aug 03 18:48:57 <GeneralAntilles> SpeedEvil, http://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/08/nokia-n950-community-device-program-additional-50-units/
Aug 03 18:48:59 <GeneralAntilles> So, make your application count. :P
Aug 03 18:49:59 <SpeedEvil> GeneralAntilles: yes - I have a placeholder entry on the list which I'm expaning somewhat.  I regret I poorly qualify on extant code, so it may not be in scope.
Aug 03 18:50:04 <SpeedEvil> expanding.
Aug 03 18:52:52 <pavi> SpeedEvil, and other meego fellas go to #meego :P
Aug 03 18:53:05 <GeneralAntilles> pavi, they don't like our kind there. :P
Aug 03 18:53:07 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, good luck, hope you get one
Aug 03 18:53:59 <pavi> GeneralAntilles, ohh thats a tricky situation :) anyways I am telling cause I now ended up with zapper issues on meego CE in n900
Aug 03 18:54:18 <SpeedEvil> GeneralAntilles: Thanks.
Aug 03 18:54:29 <pavi> *zypper 
Aug 03 18:58:21 <pavi> #meego has more people but this channel sounds more vibrant :)
Aug 03 18:58:38 <GeneralAntilles> Longer history
Aug 03 18:58:50 <GeneralAntilles> Most people are here as enthusiasts.
Aug 03 18:59:00 <GeneralAntilles> Very few of us are actually making money from it.
Aug 03 18:59:09 <GeneralAntilles> Though that number is steadily increasing as Nokia snaps them up.
Aug 03 19:03:36 <Shapeshifter> mhhh. So I installed python-pyside in scratchbox yet if I do import PySide I get "No Module named PySide". The files are there in /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/PySide/ so what the hell?
Aug 03 19:04:18 <Shapeshifter> mhh
Aug 03 19:04:21 <Shapeshifter> python2.5 it is then
Aug 03 19:04:48 <GeneralAntilles> SpeedEvil, where's your project proposal page?
Aug 03 19:11:41 <SpeedEvil> GeneralAntilles: http://wiki.maemo.org/User_talk:Speedevil/Projects - unfortunately bare. 
Aug 03 19:13:06 <SpeedEvil> The amount of extant code I have is small, hence I suspect out-of-scope. The linked earlier proposal contains more ideas. 
Aug 03 19:13:13 <SpeedEvil> But those are not actual code.
Aug 03 19:14:50 <SpeedEvil> Own fault really - I could have made a better stab at in-scope proposals if I was learning QML rather than poking around the security infrastructure and insulating house.
Aug 03 19:15:06 <GeneralAntilles> Who would've guessed there's be another round. . . .
Aug 03 19:16:05 <SpeedEvil> And yes. It's totally my fault. :)
Aug 03 19:21:23 <Shapeshifter> mh. quick question, does it make sense to develop something using QML for maemo5?
Aug 03 19:21:32 <Shapeshifter> because I wonder if I should bother learning it
Aug 03 19:22:00 <SpeedEvil> From what I've read so far in the tutorials, it does seem like a very interesting paradigm.
Aug 03 19:35:47 <pavi> with no one supporting my question at #meego I guess QML is not worth it ! 
Aug 03 19:36:10 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: you are co-author of H-E-N
Aug 03 19:36:54 <SpeedEvil> I find it hard to say that not writing code.
Aug 03 19:37:03 <SpeedEvil> I suppose that is a valid point though.
Aug 03 19:37:59 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: in a shared effort, those who contribute knowledge and specs and datasheets and concepts and ideas are as important as those who hit the kbd to get code done
Aug 03 19:38:01 <Venemo> pavi, what is your question?
Aug 03 19:38:13 <DocScrutinizer> probably of even higher importance
Aug 03 19:39:02 <pavi> Venemo, check #meego , I had issues with zypper
Aug 03 19:39:41 <Venemo> pavi, oh. sorry, I have no idea at all about zypper. but then how can you conclude from a problem with zypped that QML is not worth it?
Aug 03 19:39:45 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: I promise this time you'll get a N950, no matter how
Aug 03 19:40:11 <pavi> Venemo, I am talking of the community support , it matters the most to me , not some technology
Aug 03 19:40:45 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: Added that to the application.
Aug 03 19:40:56 <SpeedEvil> I do wonder how many applications I've poked people into doing.
Aug 03 19:41:12 <LarsN> DocScrutinizer: didn't the N950 get scrubbed.
Aug 03 19:41:26 <Venemo> mhm
Aug 03 19:41:30 <LarsN> with swipe.nokia.com (N9) as it's "replacement"
Aug 03 19:41:43 <Venemo> LarsN, hmm?
Aug 03 19:41:53 <LarsN> ^ is meego, sorta.
Aug 03 19:42:16 <LarsN> (I hosted two servers in the launch day CDN for that site:) )
Aug 03 19:42:26 <pavi> LarsN, link
Aug 03 19:42:38 <LarsN> https://swipe.nokia.com
Aug 03 19:43:00 <LarsN> minus the S I suppose.
Aug 03 19:43:04 <pavi> nopes I thought you had the older one
Aug 03 19:43:39 <LarsN> pavi: I have an N900.  I saw some of the leaked N950 images, which look a lot like the E7
Aug 03 19:43:54 <LarsN> but as far as I can tell that phone, if it ever existed, was scrubbed.
Aug 03 19:44:05 <pavi> ohh 
Aug 03 19:44:21 <pavi> What about nokias free phone offer for meego code ?
Aug 03 19:44:42 <ruskie> I thought that was the N950
Aug 03 19:44:46 <ruskie> it's just not for sale
Aug 03 19:44:54 <ruskie> and like alpha or beta stage everything
Aug 03 19:45:35 <an0therb0x> is the N9 ever going to be released 
Aug 03 19:45:49 <LarsN> an0therb0x: sure,  about a year and a half too late for it to matter.
Aug 03 19:46:02 <Tronic> No, they are just fooling to people into developing software for it, for nothing.
Aug 03 19:46:07 <ruskie> and to locked down to actually be relevant
Aug 03 19:46:08 <ShadowJK> around christmas i think
Aug 03 19:46:23 <pavi> a guy who owns a N900 works in nokia seimens and has a friend in nokai says next mont the build will be out commercially ! priced at around 900 USD
Aug 03 19:46:36 <LarsN> ShadowJK: by then the Nexus Prime will be out, as will the iPhone 5, and Windows Phone 7.5 (mango)
Aug 03 19:46:48 <Tronic> If N900 were released now, it would still be a relevant device even if not top notch anymore.
Aug 03 19:46:55 <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
Aug 03 19:47:08 <pavi> Lets see which comes out first N9 or mango phone from nokia !
Aug 03 19:47:11 <LarsN> Tronic: I agree.  I just wish it had a bit faster processor, and a capacitive touch screen.
Aug 03 19:47:17 <Tronic> pavi: N9 will come out first.
Aug 03 19:47:21 <Venemo> who the heck will pay 900 USB for this?
Aug 03 19:47:29 <LarsN> oh....  and a micro usb port that wasn't assembled by a 5th grader.
Aug 03 19:47:39 <Tronic> pavi: My personal guess is late September, maybe October.
Aug 03 19:47:40 <SpeedEvil> Venemo: If it's picked up by carriers, it's ot $900
Aug 03 19:47:45 <LarsN> (twice in a month and a half my phone goes back to get the micro usb replaced)
Aug 03 19:48:12 <Venemo> SpeedEvil, unless it will be very-VERY cheap at my carrier, I'm not buying.
Aug 03 19:48:13 <pavi> Venemo, N9 has a touch screen which is far superior than N900 that should attract the "shopping girls "type :D
Aug 03 19:48:23 <Venemo> pavi, hehe
Aug 03 19:48:37 <Venemo> pavi, my GF didn't like it that much
Aug 03 19:48:37 <lcuk> Tronic, n900pavi that requires sms to be above next generation
Aug 03 19:48:47 <an0therb0x> LarsN: why does Nokia take so long to bring their devices to market 
Aug 03 19:48:57 <Venemo> it is too easy to miss with a capacitive touch screen
Aug 03 19:48:57 <lcuk> Venemo, my missus adores her n8
Aug 03 19:49:02 <pavi> aka N9 would be attractive for iphone users with a pink colour lol I could guess the audience !
Aug 03 19:49:05 <Venemo> lcuk :)
Aug 03 19:49:14 <LarsN> the iPhone, and Android integrate with social media a lot better than the N900.  However the N900 is a far more powerful (in terms of what you can make it do) device than Android or the iPhone in my opinion.
Aug 03 19:49:42 <LarsN> an0therb0x: I think Nokia likes being in last place in the Smart Phone market.
Aug 03 19:49:51 <lcuk> LarsN, what can you do with n900 that you cannot do with iphone?
Aug 03 19:49:58 <LarsN> an0therb0x: it's a self defeating business model.
Aug 03 19:50:11 <Tronic> I just hope that N9 has larger margins around the touchscreen or some software hacks to prevent my palms getting detected when I am only holding the phone or trying to point something with my thumb.
Aug 03 19:50:26 <Venemo> lcuk, well, my gf tried using the N950 for some stuff, and she just couldn't type with either the virtual keyboard or the qwerty... then she tried some web browsing, but missed a lot of times. then she just said "this is crap" and gave it back to me.
Aug 03 19:50:30 <LarsN> lcuk: xforward openoffice from a desktop to the phone,  (or any other x app on any of my other computers)  VNC to the phone from a desktop.
Aug 03 19:50:35 <pavi> India has a huge set of Nokia fans , they dunno that N900 existed ( or a non symbian phone existed ) .. and wow MS Deal is just what they all love !
Aug 03 19:50:36 <Venemo> anyway, I kinda got used to it myself
Aug 03 19:50:40 <Tronic> On N950 that is one of the biggest problems.
Aug 03 19:50:41 <an0therb0x> I wish the N9 had a 4+ inch screen 
Aug 03 19:50:49 <LarsN> lcuk: run Asterisk on the phone and route calls between say android the SIP connection at work, and the GSM radio.
Aug 03 19:50:51 <lcuk> LarsN, ok "can" and would prefer to work that way
Aug 03 19:51:00 <Tronic> an0therb0x: Then it wouldn't fit in my pocket anymore.
Aug 03 19:51:24 <LarsN> lcuk: how about....  it has a keyboard, which makes doing any sort of systems administration NOT a hair greying experience? :)
Aug 03 19:51:30 <Tronic> an0therb0x: Jeans and other clothing have a small pocket on the right side, just suitable for a phone.
Aug 03 19:51:45 <lcuk> LarsN, I am just trying to make you think
Aug 03 19:51:51 <kerio> an0therb0x: openpandora!
Aug 03 19:51:53 <pavi> Heck I can run apt-get update and apt-get install whateverIlike !
Aug 03 19:52:05 <lcuk> pavi, what is your favourite n900 app?
Aug 03 19:52:08 <dunelj> Hi, is there anyone share N900 ui settings?
Aug 03 19:52:09 <lcuk> that you have apt-get updated
Aug 03 19:52:16 <an0therb0x> Tronic: 4.3 is almost "industry" standard 
Aug 03 19:52:21 <LarsN> lcuk: I've had an iPhone 3GS, a Google Nexus 1, and a Nokia N900 all while working in my current role.
Aug 03 19:52:21 <lcuk> since apt-get only gets things published to the repositories
Aug 03 19:52:25 <lcuk> just like apple or android
Aug 03 19:52:26 <an0therb0x> scree size
Aug 03 19:52:45 <LarsN> lcuk: by far, the N900 is the most powerful for my day to day life while on call.
Aug 03 19:52:47 <lcuk> LarsN, current role?
Aug 03 19:52:54 <pavi> recently apt-get installed mirror for the front camera ! 
Aug 03 19:52:58 <LarsN> I "don't" carry the netbook as frequently with the N900.  
Aug 03 19:52:58 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo: (crap) hehe, to the point
Aug 03 19:53:10 <lcuk> pavi, I understand other devices have similar apps in their catalogues
Aug 03 19:53:13 <LarsN> I'm a unix administrator for a web hosting company.  managing ~ 200 FreeBSD servers.
Aug 03 19:53:18 <dunelj> Is there a kind of N900 ui, not about configurable but just suitable/comfortable for most people?
Aug 03 19:53:20 <lcuk> please be clear when suggesting something
Aug 03 19:53:23 <lcuk> LarsN, ++
Aug 03 19:53:24 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer :P
Aug 03 19:53:27 <lcuk> real positive things now
Aug 03 19:53:53 <pavi> lcuk, I hate UI's and added to that I love doing apt-cache search and grep the appropriate package then install it .  
Aug 03 19:54:20 <lcuk> pavi, console is a ui
Aug 03 19:54:22 <lcuk> :)
Aug 03 19:54:36 <pavi> lcuk,  great revelation :P
Aug 03 19:54:57 <lcuk> i just done know most of the spells and rune casting incantations
Aug 03 19:55:04 * lcuk prefers buttons and entry boxes
Aug 03 19:55:55 <dunelj> Is there gesture to call out the Home screen? 
Aug 03 19:56:03 <pavi> and yeah by default I could easily edit apt config to add my own repo ! ofcourse in iphone cydia helps
Aug 03 19:56:11 <lcuk> dunelj, press gesture
Aug 03 19:56:13 <lcuk> top left corner
Aug 03 19:56:16 <pavi> but cydia after all uses debian package management
Aug 03 19:56:28 <dunelj> lcuk: not everywhere.
Aug 03 19:56:50 <dunelj> lcuk: there are most apps without that
Aug 03 19:57:15 <lcuk> pavi, I have been using gcc to self build my own packages on maemo devices for years
Aug 03 19:57:30 <lcuk> "apt-get install build-essential" is my favourite command to the n900 :)
Aug 03 19:57:45 <SpeedEvil> G
Aug 03 19:57:55 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: Usually followed by 
Aug 03 19:57:57 <SpeedEvil> ~flashing
Aug 03 19:57:58 <infobot> hmm... maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Aug 03 19:58:01 <SpeedEvil> As you've filled /
Aug 03 19:58:03 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, actually no
Aug 03 19:58:11 <lcuk> its only 80mb
Aug 03 19:58:12 <SpeedEvil> (I know, it barely works.)
Aug 03 19:58:20 <lcuk> from clean flash it works quite well
Aug 03 19:58:24 <SpeedEvil> (on a virgin system)
Aug 03 19:58:31 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, it is the first thing I do
Aug 03 19:58:38 <lcuk> and optification helped immesnely
Aug 03 19:58:44 <dunelj> I had never flash my N900...
Aug 03 19:58:45 <lcuk> especially when adding a few folders
Aug 03 19:58:48 <lcuk> besides, it works
Aug 03 19:58:57 * SpeedEvil idly wonders what the result of a data protection enquiry to my phone company would be.
Aug 03 19:59:26 <SpeedEvil> 'Please send me all information associated with my account, this would include both stored information, and any transient information at the time you process this request'.
Aug 03 19:59:35 <DocScrutinizer> WTF is data protection inquiry?
Aug 03 19:59:35 <SpeedEvil> (cellphone)
Aug 03 19:59:42 <DocScrutinizer> aah
Aug 03 19:59:53 <SpeedEvil> A Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act.
Aug 03 20:00:05 <SpeedEvil> It's EU legislation, but wil probably have another name in germany.
Aug 03 20:00:13 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Aug 03 20:01:00 <Venemo> does the word 'tethering' refer to when I connect to the internet through my phone's modem?
Aug 03 20:01:09 <DocScrutinizer> informationelle selbstbestimmung  -  an incredible german monster term of the kind we like so much, well some of us Germans
Aug 03 20:01:11 <LarsN> Venemo: usually.
Aug 03 20:01:24 <LarsN> Venemo: could be via USB, Bluetooth, (older and more traditional)
Aug 03 20:01:35 <LarsN> Venemo: or by turning your phone into a WiFi hot spot.
Aug 03 20:02:18 <DocScrutinizer> it's so monstrous I'm not even sure I really got it right ;-P
Aug 03 20:02:44 <SpeedEvil> That's quite long! :)
Aug 03 20:02:56 <SpeedEvil> I was wondering as I'm already sending off a couple tomorrow.
Aug 03 20:03:11 <Venemo> mhm
Aug 03 20:03:13 <Venemo> thanks LarsN
Aug 03 20:03:49 <DocScrutinizer> and of course simply "datenschutz (-gesetz)"
Aug 03 20:04:29 <Venemo> anyone any idea about this? http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=28171#post28171
Aug 03 20:04:29 <DocScrutinizer> your inquiry usually called "selbstauskunft"
Aug 03 20:06:13 <SpeedEvil> Venemo: Ah yes. Fun.
Aug 03 20:06:24 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo: hehe, I bet the answer will be "wait for yoghurt sport"
Aug 03 20:06:27 <SpeedEvil> Venemo: The old 'damn you ICD, get out of my way'.
Aug 03 20:06:34 <Venemo> :D
Aug 03 20:06:44 <SpeedEvil> (assuming that IC is doing the connection managment on the n950)
Aug 03 20:07:05 <LarsN> so there actually was a N950 device at some point?
Aug 03 20:07:12 <Venemo> if the whateverspot app (that turns the phone into a wifi AP) becomes available on the N950, I could then use the wifi for this. but now not even that.
Aug 03 20:07:14 <LarsN> or is that a nickname for an N900 running Meego?
Aug 03 20:07:32 <DocScrutinizer> yes, until this morning a N950 sat on my desk in front of me
Aug 03 20:07:50 <LarsN> and what did/does it look like?
Aug 03 20:08:17 <DocScrutinizer> sigh
Aug 03 20:08:28 <DocScrutinizer> LarsN: where you've been living?
Aug 03 20:08:31 <LarsN> too many "false news story links" on the web.
Aug 03 20:08:50 <LarsN> DocScrutinizer: the ones I had seen resembled the E7 with an macbook style chicklet keyboard.
Aug 03 20:08:51 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer, did you send it back or what?
Aug 03 20:09:02 <LarsN> DocScrutinizer: clearly in the wrong country, and under a rock to boot.
Aug 03 20:09:08 <DocScrutinizer> http://storage3.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0621/h_1308650003_5628d0de58.jpeg
Aug 03 20:09:59 <LarsN> DocScrutinizer: that's the one I had seen....  I didn't know it actually saw the light of day though.
Aug 03 20:10:00 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo: not yet, I'm first waiting another few weeks if something changes for the beter regarding TC
Aug 03 20:10:34 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer, TC=?
Aug 03 20:10:45 <DocScrutinizer> ~aegis
Aug 03 20:10:46 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism
Aug 03 20:10:53 <Venemo> I know what Aegis is
Aug 03 20:10:58 <Venemo> I just dunno what TC stands for
Aug 03 20:11:00 <Venemo> ~tc
Aug 03 20:11:00 <infobot> i heard tc is Top Cat,Turbo C.  Traffic Control, A program for defining QoS rules in 2.4
Aug 03 20:11:01 <DocScrutinizer> last URL
Aug 03 20:11:05 <Venemo> aaah
Aug 03 20:11:07 <Venemo> ok
Aug 03 20:11:08 <villager> LarsN: N950 is not for sale, it's just given to selected developers so they can make software for the N9
Aug 03 20:11:09 <Venemo> :)
Aug 03 20:11:18 <LarsN> villager: noted.
Aug 03 20:11:31 <LarsN> villager: that "developer edition" was the giveaway :)
Aug 03 20:11:33 <cehteh> DocScrutinizer: you send yours back?
Aug 03 20:11:56 <DocScrutinizer> cehteh:  not yet, I'm first waiting another few weeks if something changes for the beter regarding TC
Aug 03 20:12:18 <cehteh> yeah hell freezes over
Aug 03 20:12:24 <DocScrutinizer> (duh could have fixed that typo)
Aug 03 20:12:38 <fusi> DocScrutinizer: is there a channel on here specifically for maemo developers?
Aug 03 20:12:48 <fusi> hi btw o/
Aug 03 20:13:11 <Venemo> fusi, this is it. you could try #maemo-devel or #qt-maemo but those are quite abandoned lately methinks.
Aug 03 20:13:13 <DocScrutinizer> cehteh: maybe meegoCE comes to pace. Maybe somebody with a real clue about SDK and all that manages to build a aegis-free harmattan kernel
Aug 03 20:13:17 <RST38h> Meanwhile: "In the latest Marvel Comic series 'Ultimate Fallout,' Miles Morales replaces Peter Parker who has been killed off by the Green Goblin. Morales is a half-black, half-Latino teen, and the creators haven't ruled out that he might be gay."
Aug 03 20:13:26 <villager> LarsN: well yeah, but the point is, N950 will *never* be for sale... it just has similar hardware to N9 (plus keyboard) so developers can work with it
Aug 03 20:13:40 <maybeWTF> so what's new about spiderman being gay?
Aug 03 20:13:40 <DocScrutinizer> fusi: this channel is for maemo developers :-)
Aug 03 20:13:49 <fusi> ah
Aug 03 20:13:49 <cehteh> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Meego-Netbook-zum-Niedrigpreis-1317719.html  looks nice for that price
Aug 03 20:13:50 <LarsN> villager: I figured that out when I saw the N9 press release.
Aug 03 20:13:54 <fusi> k, thanks
Aug 03 20:13:54 <RST38h> (the million dollar question is whether they can make him gay and lesbian at the same time, of course)
Aug 03 20:13:57 <cehteh> (just about meego)
Aug 03 20:14:03 <Venemo> fusi, feel free to ask on this channel, we'll help if we can :)
Aug 03 20:14:15 <fusi> thanks :)
Aug 03 20:14:16 <cehteh> i dont have hopes on nokia and smartphone .. but well, time will tell
Aug 03 20:14:25 <fusi> i think this channel has sweet spots in terms of time of day ;p
Aug 03 20:15:32 <pavi> I am a lil confused with harmattan , meego and next version of maemo all thanks to nokia , harmattan is technically maemo6 with Qt but not for n900 ,am I right ? or is it just meego ce ?
Aug 03 20:15:51 <SpeedEvil> Harmattan has little to do with meego.
Aug 03 20:15:57 <SpeedEvil> Harmattan is maemo 6
Aug 03 20:16:02 <Venemo> yeah
Aug 03 20:16:07 <SpeedEvil> QML is being pushed heavily for it.
Aug 03 20:16:11 <LarsN> pavi: if it makes you feel any better I'm just confused. :)
Aug 03 20:16:27 <Venemo> Harmattan is Maemo 6. fortunately Harmattan is API compatible with the true MeeGo
Aug 03 20:16:34 <pavi> If harmattan is maemo6 why cant n900 run it ?
Aug 03 20:16:39 <fusi> its been a while since i coded straight c - got so used to c++ sugar heh
Aug 03 20:16:46 <LarsN> When I get my N900 back, my only real goals are to get a calendar syncing bi-directionally with our SOGo server & Google Calendar.
Aug 03 20:16:54 <Venemo> N900 can run MeeGo
Aug 03 20:17:01 <SpeedEvil> pavi: Because it contains binary components not licenced to run on the n900, and probably technical reasons too.
Aug 03 20:17:16 <LarsN> whether that's on Meego, or Maemo 5 doesn't matter much at all to me :)
Aug 03 20:17:19 <Venemo> N900 could run Harmattan, but it is not running, mostly for marketing reasons
Aug 03 20:17:20 <DocScrutinizer> pavi: why can't N810 run fremantle/M5 ?
Aug 03 20:17:25 <pavi> Venemo, I am dual booting N900 with meego thats where I got the zypper issue
Aug 03 20:17:45 <Venemo> if you could run Harmattan on N900, who the heck would buy an N9,
Aug 03 20:17:45 <Venemo> ?
Aug 03 20:17:47 <dunelj> Venemo: can you rip the N950 and try it on N900?
Aug 03 20:18:03 <pavi> But DocScrutinizer Venemo Harmattan was built taking N900 as example or build hardware ?
Aug 03 20:18:08 <Venemo> dunelj, I don't have the necessary knowledge to do that but there is a thread on TMO
Aug 03 20:18:43 <Venemo> Harmattan is NOT for the N900, period. I could theoretically run, but it's just not released for that hardware.
Aug 03 20:19:43 <pavi> Why cant there be a maemo update for N900 , nokia is no where the decission maker right ?
Aug 03 20:19:46 <villager> LarsN: maybe you could beta-test the new SyncEvolution I uploaded to extras-devel a week or so ago, it now supports CardDAV/CalDAV in addition to SyncML
Aug 03 20:19:57 <DocScrutinizer> so far we are happy when harmattan actually runs on N950 ;-P
Aug 03 20:20:06 <DocScrutinizer> instead of simply bricking the device
Aug 03 20:20:07 <pavi> community updates is not actual update 
Aug 03 20:20:33 <LarsN> villager: I'll make a deal with you.  When my phone gets back (likely next week) I'll ping you here with a fresh installation of maemo on the phone and if I get stuck I'll pick your brain :)
Aug 03 20:20:51 <DocScrutinizer> pavi: in fremantle there are several blobs that can't get updated
Aug 03 20:21:00 <villager> LarsN: allright
Aug 03 20:21:12 <DocScrutinizer> many of those block update of other parts of the system as well, esp kernel
Aug 03 20:21:21 <pavi> DocScrutinizer, binay propreitary stuff which only nokia guys should update ?
Aug 03 20:21:44 <DocScrutinizer> pavi: for same reason you won't get harmattan to run on N900
Aug 03 20:21:45 <dunelj> Venemo: I know, while if it can run and after few hacks, like portait to landsacpe, then N900 can use many apps for N9 then:D
Aug 03 20:22:00 <villager> LarsN: it seems to work for me syncing google calendar at least
Aug 03 20:22:11 <LarsN> villager: bidirectional sync?
Aug 03 20:22:17 <villager> LarsN: of course
Aug 03 20:22:24 <LarsN> awesome.
Aug 03 20:22:27 <LarsN> that's using caldav?
Aug 03 20:22:33 <villager> LarsN: yes
Aug 03 20:22:36 <LarsN> should work fine for SOGo then.
Aug 03 20:22:37 <LarsN> :)
Aug 03 20:22:47 <Venemo> dunelj, problem is, N900 may not have the necessary computing power (especially regarding the GPU) to run that.
Aug 03 20:23:01 <Venemo> dunelj, but most likely, you'll be able to use 90% of Harmattan apps on MeeGo CE as well
Aug 03 20:23:35 <DocScrutinizer> ooohohohoh
Aug 03 20:24:09 <Shapeshifter> provided someone bothered to repackage them
Aug 03 20:24:31 <dunelj> Venemo: isn't the GPU the same...
Aug 03 20:24:53 <DocScrutinizer> seems you can use a higher percentage of fremantle apps on harmattan without any recompilation that I guess will be the percentage of meegoCE compliant harmattan apps
Aug 03 20:25:03 <dunelj> Venemo: and CPU can be overclocked quite easily to 850Mhz or 1000Mhz.
Aug 03 20:25:39 <Venemo> dunelj, N950 GPU has twice the speed of the N900's
Aug 03 20:25:50 <Venemo> actually all the animations and scrolling are seamless onit
Aug 03 20:26:03 <pavi> http://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/Census/Maemo says that maemo is Based on: Debian etch and lenny, plus the addition of some closed, proprietary Nokia boot blobs. Moving toward a more open, community based model, community info here http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU
Aug 03 20:26:34 <pavi> Dunno how much I should believe of that ^^
Aug 03 20:26:45 <DocScrutinizer> pavi: that's for the update
Aug 03 20:27:18 <pavi> update here just means few package updates 
Aug 03 20:28:05 <DocScrutinizer> >>Moving toward a more open, community based model,<< is mere nonsense, esp the reference to CSSU
Aug 03 20:28:23 <Shapeshifter> the only thing that ever got opened was alarmd >.> http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages
Aug 03 20:28:28 <DocScrutinizer> CSSU is NOT an alternative distro aimed at replacing maemo core by foss
Aug 03 20:29:01 <pavi> DocScrutinizer, yeah you clarified that :) wish it had happened , then going to harmattan would have been a breeze !
Aug 03 20:29:13 * pavi wishes openmoko had not died
Aug 03 20:29:37 <Shapeshifter> the freerunner was just too big
Aug 03 20:29:41 <DocScrutinizer> pavi: on hindsight I'm happy it did
Aug 03 20:30:20 <DocScrutinizer> otherwise I bet GTA04 still wasn't ready to rollout
Aug 03 20:30:38 <LarsN> pavi: I agree 100%
Aug 03 20:30:45 <DocScrutinizer> not even GTA03 probably
Aug 03 20:30:56 <LarsN> pavi: I was stoked about the openmoko project...  android flat out axe murdered it.
Aug 03 20:31:26 <DocScrutinizer> and GTA03 was pretty much obsolete the time OM gone pooof
Aug 03 20:31:45 <DocScrutinizer> and it had a c-ts - uaerrgh!
Aug 03 20:32:50 <pavi> android even murdered nokias smart phone friendliness 
Aug 03 20:32:51 <DocScrutinizer> so the smaller crappier version of N9, without any trace of a GUI faintly siuted for such a class of device
Aug 03 20:33:31 <DocScrutinizer> LarsN: we had no need for android to commit suicide ;-P
Aug 03 20:33:34 <pavi> DocScrutinizer, so can I run harmattan on virtual machine or SDK ?
Aug 03 20:33:53 <DocScrutinizer> afaik you can
Aug 03 20:33:57 <dunelj> I want E17 on my N900 now...
Aug 03 20:34:05 <LarsN> DocScrutinizer: true, although that seemed to be the last nail in the OpenMoko's coffin.
Aug 03 20:34:33 <DocScrutinizer> nah, believe me there were completely different reasons in the end
Aug 03 20:35:05 <pavi> http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/Introduction.html
Aug 03 20:35:59 <LarsN> I waited and waited for the N950 to be released.  I'm glad I jumpped ship to the N900 when I did.
Aug 03 20:36:19 <DocScrutinizer> android and esp iPhone just introduced that insane "differentiate!" idea into our developer meetings
Aug 03 20:36:21 <LarsN> I like Maemo 5 a lot better than I liked the last build I had on the N810
Aug 03 20:36:41 <DocScrutinizer> and that pretty much conributed to OM's suicide in the end
Aug 03 20:36:48 <LarsN> which was 2008.something  IIRC
Aug 03 20:37:57 <DocScrutinizer> meh, some of diablo's concepts are a pity they got binned on fremantle
Aug 03 20:38:02 <pavi> LarsN, after the meego phone came out in demo , and the price was 900 usd with meego ( zypper and rpm ) with no qwerty .. I ran around all stores I could for n900
Aug 03 20:38:39 <pavi> had a hell lot of fight with friends convincing why not android , why not pinch zoom !
Aug 03 20:38:42 <DocScrutinizer> pavi: eh?
Aug 03 20:39:22 <pavi> DocScrutinizer, I own a N900 only since 20 days . bought it with last months salary !
Aug 03 20:39:34 <DocScrutinizer> there's no meego phone with zypper yet
Aug 03 20:40:25 <pavi> DocScrutinizer, atleast thats what I assumed ! add MS deal meego falling apart ,frankly never liked the Novell gang ! 
Aug 03 20:40:37 <DocScrutinizer> except maybe for meegoCE version on N900
Aug 03 20:40:44 <Venemo> yeah
Aug 03 20:40:55 <antman8969> far from usable though
Aug 03 20:40:59 <pavi> I am more than happy with N900 ! 
Aug 03 20:41:13 <LarsN> I have a love hate relationship with my N900
Aug 03 20:41:18 <pavi> Meego CE is quite slow , the touch takes lot of time to respond
Aug 03 20:41:36 <pavi> someone at #meego told me that it needs to build cache 
Aug 03 20:41:37 <Venemo> pavi, when did you try?
Aug 03 20:41:44 <antman8969> a lot of the performance most people experience is related to running it from the mmc I would assume
Aug 03 20:41:53 <pavi> Venemo, since yesterday !
Aug 03 20:41:54 <DocScrutinizer> as things are right now, it seems I'll stay with N900 and M5 for the next couple of years
Aug 03 20:41:56 <LarsN> it does a lot of things very well.  being a "user friendly appliance" isn't one of them.  Having a robust micro-usb port isn't one of them either.
Aug 03 20:41:59 <LarsN> :)
Aug 03 20:42:11 <pavi> antman8969, exactly from MMC , how much speed difference ?
Aug 03 20:42:45 <antman8969> well I've tried it from the emmc, overwriting Maemo and there was a SLIGHT speed difference
Aug 03 20:42:48 <Venemo> I tried MeeGo DE (CE wasn't around yet) from the N900's eMMC. this was around march or april. it was very quick and responsive then.
Aug 03 20:42:48 <antman8969> but then again
Aug 03 20:42:48 <antman8969> not enough to justify
Aug 03 20:42:57 <antman8969> it was never meant to be an end user install
Aug 03 20:43:28 <LarsN> I have a Class 10 micro sd on it's way.  plan on loading Meego on that when both devices are in the same place at the same time.
Aug 03 20:43:43 <ShadowJK> it reacts fast enough for me, though launching apps takes ages. all animations and such are supersmooth
Aug 03 20:43:53 <antman8969> thats what I did too larsn... lol it's not really a day and night difference.
Aug 03 20:44:05 <LarsN> antman8969: vs the class 4 I have now it can't hurt
Aug 03 20:44:05 <antman8969> doing anything that requires loading into ram takes ages
Aug 03 20:44:06 * ShadowJK still hasn't seen a fast class 10
Aug 03 20:44:17 <pavi> Tell me about the damned USB port , scared the hell out of me .  I used the default cable which works only on my netbook but not on other desktops , it gets inserted to the slot very hardly . I am using the android cable which sony ericsson has given to my freind works perfect
Aug 03 20:44:17 <LarsN> antman8969: even for taking pictures in M5 :)
Aug 03 20:44:43 <antman8969> shadowjk makes a good point. A lot of class 10s you see don't really maintain a 10 mbps transfer rate...
Aug 03 20:44:52 <antman8969> it's border criminal imo
Aug 03 20:44:56 <ShadowJK> um
Aug 03 20:44:57 <antman8969> they can pretty much sell w/e they want
Aug 03 20:45:15 <LarsN> pavi: the port came out of the phone when I unplugged the cable 6 weeks ago.  I got the phone back from square trade after being repaired about 10 days ago....  the port is detached (at least two of the four pins) again.
Aug 03 20:45:19 <ShadowJK> they'd maintain 10M if you used them in a videocamera
Aug 03 20:45:26 <LarsN> going back to square trade tomorrow for a second repair
Aug 03 20:45:38 <ShadowJK> but for operating systems, class 10 is currently most likely slower than class 4
Aug 03 20:45:54 <antman8969> lame
Aug 03 20:46:07 <ShadowJK> however, it's complicated, because sandisk class 2 will most often beat kingston class 6, for example
Aug 03 20:46:14 <LarsN> ShadowJK: I'll give it a shot.  This is a Patriot Class 10 i ordered.  
Aug 03 20:46:29 <antman8969> that's what I got larsn
Aug 03 20:46:30 <ShadowJK> but then there's about 99.9% fake sandisk on ebay, and 50% elsewhere
Aug 03 20:46:35 <LarsN> I've got a Patriot Class 4 now. as well as a sandisk class 4 (come very close to one another)
Aug 03 20:46:38 <Venemo> what's the point of that?
Aug 03 20:46:45 <Venemo> just repartition the eMMC
Aug 03 20:46:46 <ShadowJK> iirc the patriots scored poorly :P
Aug 03 20:46:50 <Venemo> and you're good to go.
Aug 03 20:46:54 <DocScrutinizer> pavi: always pull the USB plug by gripping it between end of plug and N900 case with your fingernails. I did that 1 hour while watching TV (1mm out, in again) and it works all smooth now
Aug 03 20:46:56 <LarsN> if it sucks, it sucks
Aug 03 20:47:00 <LarsN> not the end of the world.
Aug 03 20:47:12 <LarsN> this class 4 works exactly as expected.
Aug 03 20:47:33 <ShadowJK> http://www.sakoman.com/OMAP/microsd-card-perfomance-test-results.html 
Aug 03 20:47:45 <pavi> DocScrutinizer, thanks for the tip, anyways me going to sony ericsson shop for an android cable !
Aug 03 20:48:02 <ShadowJK> patriot class 10: 8000 seconds to boot. Sandisk class 2: 1803
Aug 03 20:48:03 <DocScrutinizer> whatever works for you
Aug 03 20:48:10 <antman8969> usefull shadowjk, thanks
Aug 03 20:48:16 <pavi> :)
Aug 03 20:48:58 <ShadowJK> oops, 6000 for patriot
Aug 03 20:49:02 <DocScrutinizer> pavi: just never apply force to the plug other that strickly pulling it. Odds are you're doing exactly that when you grab it firmly - you'll bend and break it
Aug 03 20:50:07 <pavi> DocScrutinizer, yeah I am always scared when things are too tight , if everything is in correct orientation/direction it should come smoothly or go inside the slot smoothly
Aug 03 20:50:52 <LarsN> My updated instuctions to Squaretrade included suggesting they actually expoxy the connector to the circuit board.  That surface mount solder points do not qualify as a mechanical connection.
Aug 03 20:51:08 <LarsN> this second break is almost certainly the result of a bad repair the first time around.
Aug 03 20:51:18 <DocScrutinizer> pavi: a pencil can help much, just "paint" the outer metal end of plug with graphite
Aug 03 20:51:45 <DocScrutinizer> pavi: you'll possibly be amazed about the effect
Aug 03 20:51:50 <pavi> DocScrutinizer, by the way I asked here about adding new keyboard layout ,  How do I contribute back to maemo :)
Aug 03 20:51:51 <LarsN> What is this pencil of which you speak?
Aug 03 20:51:55 <LarsN> DocScrutinizer: ^
Aug 03 20:52:03 <pavi> graphite conductor ?
Aug 03 20:52:06 <ShadowJK> or you can spend an evening watching tv, pushing nail down on the microusb teeth
Aug 03 20:52:17 <DocScrutinizer> the black pens you can earse with rubber eraser
Aug 03 20:52:22 <LarsN> I think I read about those in the history books....  people used to input data in an analog fashion with them or something?  :)
Aug 03 20:53:07 <ShadowJK> they have superior data retention
Aug 03 20:53:20 <DocScrutinizer> actually I searched one today and couldn't find any at home :-P
Aug 03 20:53:27 <LarsN> heh
Aug 03 20:53:33 <LarsN> alright guys, I'm done for the day
Aug 03 20:53:37 <LarsN> see everyone soonish :)
Aug 03 20:53:53 <pavi> LarsN, bye nice talking to you
Aug 03 20:54:31 <DocScrutinizer> LarsN: ask chem|st about epoxy
Aug 03 20:54:36 <DocScrutinizer> won'T stick
Aug 03 20:55:25 <DocScrutinizer> LarsN: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=547991#post547991
Aug 03 20:55:38 <DocScrutinizer> this is how you fix a USB properly
Aug 03 20:57:15 <DocScrutinizer> haha, now it occurs to me like I could use my bare PCB to do a few test drills
Aug 03 20:57:44 <SpeedEvil> How to fix USB properly. 1) Get time machine. 2) Make USB standards committee specify shorter plugs, and right-angle plugs.
Aug 03 20:58:01 <DocScrutinizer> yoh SpeedEvil :-D
Aug 03 20:58:02 <SpeedEvil> And dock connectors.
Aug 03 20:58:24 <SpeedEvil> And 'high power' USB with 30V@0.5A on request too.
Aug 03 20:58:33 <pavi> SpeedEvil, you are a speed devil :P
Aug 03 20:58:41 <bindi_> 30V?
Aug 03 20:59:07 <DocScrutinizer> why not 40?
Aug 03 20:59:16 <SpeedEvil> bindi_: 30V is at the limit of what is 'super extra low voltage' (or something) in the EU. It can be used without much protection.
Aug 03 20:59:31 <DocScrutinizer> ah ah ah
Aug 03 20:59:39 <DocScrutinizer> not quite sure about that
Aug 03 20:59:41 <SpeedEvil> But 15W will power quite adequately most devices near a PC that need power.
Aug 03 20:59:41 <bindi_> because volts will kill you
Aug 03 20:59:52 <DocScrutinizer> I think there's sth about 42V, and even 60V
Aug 03 21:00:03 <SpeedEvil> Possibly.
Aug 03 21:00:12 <SpeedEvil> I thought it was 36
Aug 03 21:00:30 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, another one value commonly thrown in
Aug 03 21:00:35 <Venemo> so how could then a phone ever emit 30V if it wanted to be a USB host?
Aug 03 21:00:47 <SpeedEvil> Venemo: It couldn't.
Aug 03 21:00:56 <DocScrutinizer> actually there's a plethory of DIN and VDE and dunno what regulations
Aug 03 21:00:57 <Venemo> SpeedEvil, so?
Aug 03 21:01:05 <SpeedEvil> Venemo: The idea would be that a hub/host could either be 'high power' or not.
Aug 03 21:01:10 <Venemo> SpeedEvil, aah.
Aug 03 21:01:29 <SpeedEvil> Venemo: If it was a high power hub/host, then you could plug devices in that knew about high power, wanted it, and could request it.
Aug 03 21:01:34 <SpeedEvil> Otherwise, it's all 5V
Aug 03 21:01:53 <DocScrutinizer> if USB could take 30V@0.5A that would be pretty sufficient for even smaller laptops
Aug 03 21:01:54 <Venemo> mhmm
Aug 03 21:02:12 <SpeedEvil> The high power side would only be used for rapid-charging ipads, or printers, or speakers, or ...
Aug 03 21:02:16 <Venemo> now I need to leave. good night everyone :)
Aug 03 21:02:19 <SpeedEvil> Wave.
Aug 03 21:02:20 <Venemo> I'll be back tomorrow
Aug 03 21:02:29 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo: o/
Aug 03 21:02:36 <bindi_> gigabyte has that on off charge tech
Aug 03 21:02:40 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer, o7
Aug 03 21:02:43 <bindi_> 1.5A off the usb port
Aug 03 21:02:47 * DocScrutinizer needs a pub-time
Aug 03 21:02:58 <SpeedEvil> bindi_: It's not a standard though.
Aug 03 21:03:10 <SpeedEvil> bindi_: It would be really nice if it was a stanard in the original spec.
Aug 03 21:03:18 <bindi_> yeah
Aug 03 21:03:36 <DocScrutinizer> bindi_: wut? 1.5A over USB? heck, most connectors will fry on that
Aug 03 21:03:45 <bindi_> huh
Aug 03 21:03:56 <bindi_> made for apple product recharging
Aug 03 21:04:12 <bindi_> actually
Aug 03 21:04:15 <bindi_> it's 0.9A? dunno 
Aug 03 21:04:23 <bindi_> it's called 3X power though
Aug 03 21:04:58 <DocScrutinizer> iirc some of the usual USB connectors are specified to no more than 1A
Aug 03 21:05:09 <DocScrutinizer> some maybe 2A
Aug 03 21:05:41 <DocScrutinizer> heavy duty versions my specify 2A for a type that's usually 1A
Aug 03 21:07:03 <DocScrutinizer> on 2A 5V you already start to cause electic erosion when you break the circuit by pulling the plug
Aug 03 21:08:10 <bindi_> https://github.com/mkorenkov/ipad_charge
Aug 03 21:08:42 <bindi_> changes current of apparently any usb port to 1.1A
Aug 03 21:08:54 <bindi_> sounds bad 
Aug 03 21:10:52 <SpeedEvil> It configures the ipad to take 1.1A whether the port can supply it or not on a quick skim
Aug 03 21:11:38 <DocScrutinizer> >>In Battery Charging Specification,[38] new powering modes are added to the USB specification. A host or hub Charging Downstream Port can supply a maximum of 1.5 A when communicating at low-bandwidth or full-bandwidth, a maximum of 900 mA when communicating at high-bandwidth, and as much current as the connector will safely handle when no communication is taking place; USB 2.0 standard-A connectors are rated at 1.5 A by default. A 
Aug 03 21:11:39 <DocScrutinizer> Dedicated Charging Port can supply a maximum of 1.8 A of current at 5.25 V. A portable device can draw up to 1.8 A from a Dedicated Charging Port.<<
Aug 03 21:32:24 <pavi> How do I remove a user from scratch box ?
Aug 03 21:32:38 <DocScrutinizer> why would you?
Aug 03 21:32:46 <pavi> # /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser pavi       Scratchbox user account for user pavi already exists!
Aug 03 21:33:09 <pavi> It doesnt work :(     $ scratchbox bash: /usr/bin/scratchbox: Permission denied
Aug 03 21:33:09 <DocScrutinizer> :shrug:
Aug 03 21:33:14 <DocScrutinizer> fine no?
Aug 03 21:33:37 <pavi> scratch box was previously installed for maemo
Aug 03 21:33:57 <DocScrutinizer> I give up
Aug 03 21:34:20 <angelox|laptop> Which package provides 'ar' ?
Aug 03 21:34:31 <pavi> :) let me try with another user
Aug 03 21:51:04 * pavi went into a mess by deleting a directory inside scratch box . how to clean the entire thing up ?
Aug 03 21:51:20 <DocScrutinizer> what's up with MohammadAG - no \o/ no nuttin
Aug 03 21:54:59 <pavi> DocScrutinizer, http://dpaste.com/585824/ is the mess I am stuck in
Aug 03 22:50:33 <dunelj> hi, does anybody know how to use Flash with FCamera?
Aug 03 22:56:28 <fusi> hehe
Aug 03 22:56:37 <fusi> refactoring frenzy
Aug 03 22:56:50 <fusi> ive borkened it :o
Aug 03 22:57:48 <SpeedEvil> dunelj: I've never seen a way to enable flash on it.
Aug 03 22:59:11 <fusi> i found the dbus cmdline to invoke a new browser
Aug 03 22:59:26 <fusi> but it only works if the browser has been started
Aug 03 22:59:27 <Termana> good morning
Aug 03 22:59:32 <fusi> moinz
Aug 03 23:00:00 * SpeedEvil notes it's 23:59 here.
Aug 03 23:00:09 <SpeedEvil> About as far from morning as it's possible to get.
Aug 03 23:00:46 <fusi> u m uk too SpeedEvil ?
Aug 03 23:00:55 <SpeedEvil> Yes. Fife.
Aug 03 23:01:03 <fusi> :D
Aug 03 23:01:06 <fusi> helloo
Aug 03 23:01:17 <fusi> ross-on-wye \o/
Aug 03 23:01:41 <SpeedEvil> There are several UK people here.
Aug 03 23:01:49 <fusi> any more uk frequent this place?
Aug 03 23:01:52 <fusi> ah cool
Aug 04 00:38:36 <DocScrutinizer> ~seen MohammadAG 
Aug 04 00:38:39 <infobot> mohammadag is currently on #maemo #meego, last said: 'SpeedEvil, good luck, hope you get one'.
Aug 04 01:42:28 <ultra420> hello,guys,i fixed the problem with mscim didn't turn up by ctrl+space,it is because i changed the /etc/passwd,i change the bash of root,user 's from /etc/sh to /etc/bash4 (after i apt-get install bash4)
Aug 04 01:43:10 <fusi> argh
Aug 04 01:43:15 <fusi> been bashing my head against this for ages
Aug 04 01:43:19 <fusi> and have only just notived
Aug 04 01:43:25 <fusi> the clock in scratchbox is out by an hour
Aug 04 01:43:33 <fusi> so all the timestamps are out
Aug 04 01:43:35 <fusi> thus no auth
Aug 04 01:43:36 <fusi> god dammit
Aug 04 01:45:59 <SpeedEvil> Timezones are a source of endless entertainment.
Aug 04 01:51:26 <fusi> WOOHOO"
Aug 04 01:51:29 <fusi> works :D
Aug 04 01:51:31 <fusi> nearly
Aug 04 01:51:33 <fusi> Segmentation fault      (core dumped) "$@"
Aug 04 01:51:34 <fusi> \o/
Aug 04 01:51:36 <fusi> o//
Aug 04 01:51:37 <fusi> \\o
Aug 04 01:51:44 * fusi does the segfault dance
Aug 04 01:53:58 <fusi> i hear lots of grinding
Aug 04 01:54:02 <fusi> but i dont see much compiling
Aug 04 01:54:04 <fusi> cmon 
Aug 04 02:16:44 <dunelj> Anybody port Allegro game here? Port B.A.L.L.Z please.
Aug 04 02:17:21 <dunelj> Please build an environment repackage the one from debian?
Aug 04 02:17:59 <dunelj> http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/ballz
Aug 04 02:19:46 <FIQ|n900> reminds me of bounce
Aug 04 02:27:45 <dunelj> FIQ|n900: this game require minimal control. if somebody use "shake" as bounce key option, it might have more fun.
Aug 04 02:30:18 <SpeedEvil> Bounce with more levels would be awesome.
Aug 04 02:30:32 <SpeedEvil> Also - blocks needs highscore.
Aug 04 02:36:11 <FIQ|n900> <SpeedEvil> Bounce with more levels would be awesome.
Aug 04 02:36:16 <FIQ|n900> you mean evolution?
Aug 04 02:36:37 <FIQ|n900> because that would indeed be awesome
Aug 04 02:41:21 <dunelj_> bounce evolution? there are games similar, have you try irrlamb on PC?.
Aug 04 02:41:41 <dunelj_> FIQ|n900: port irrlamb please :D
Aug 04 02:43:32 <dunelj_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PemiIKVOsqQ
Aug 04 02:44:17 <SpeedEvil> The ball game that was in PR1,0 anyway
Aug 04 02:45:05 <dunelj_> SpeedEvil: which game? ballz or irrlamb?
Aug 04 02:45:41 <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6JfxdWg0HI
Aug 04 02:46:08 <dunelj_> SpeedEvil: we all knows that...
Aug 04 02:47:34 <SpeedEvil> Hmm - I iddn't know Rovio did it too.
Aug 04 02:49:15 <dunelj_> SpeedEvil: you know money can change everything in a company
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 04 02:59:57 2011