**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Aug 08 02:59:58 2011 Aug 08 03:10:18 Bonjour, je veux t'invitez de visiter notre tchat, entre dans www.minet.eu.tf, merci Aug 08 07:29:15 DocScrutinizer: Isn't it possible to circumvent this ridiculous TC right from the start? As in, flash a firmware where it's not there? Of course this is of little use for writing/deploying apps to everyone but people with a clue could profit. Aug 08 07:31:39 would this firmware be able to communicate with the gsm modem? Aug 08 07:33:13 (from what I understood, that's the problem) Aug 08 07:34:42 May be a better idea just to go ahead and upgrade back to the N900 <_< Aug 08 07:51:11 hello Aug 08 07:51:34 just a quick question, what repository is libhildon1 in? Aug 08 07:53:07 just a quick question, what repository is libhildon1 in? Aug 08 07:54:03 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1065318#post1065318 oh goodness :| Aug 08 07:55:37 no, just no , that should be considered a crime Aug 08 07:56:06 mutilating a n900 with apple crap Aug 08 07:57:58 but, in what repo are QT and hildon libs Aug 08 07:58:38 as i just reflashed my n900 and cant install anything via fast app manager, they all break on pretty standard dependencies Aug 08 08:02:01 peterbjornx: http://maemo.org/packages/view/libhildon1/ Aug 08 08:03:10 peterbjornx: it should have come with your image. Aug 08 08:05:35 ok, looks like it really is a config problem of fast app manager then Aug 08 08:23:25 What is the easiest way to run a QML file on maemo or meeoce or even a debian desktop without downloading large chunks of files for SDK Aug 08 08:25:25 pavii: qmlviewer but it has it's limitations Aug 08 08:26:27 dm8tbr: qml viewer on phoone? Aug 08 08:27:30 should be there, yes, but it has caveats Aug 08 08:28:18 yeah got it Aug 08 08:28:41 qt4-declerative-qmlviewer Aug 08 09:00:29 i just had a great idea: Aug 08 09:00:54 modifiying multiboot to mount images aswell Aug 08 09:01:21 so we can run chroot env's without having maemo running Aug 08 09:23:42 err uhum Aug 08 10:24:43 is there any prebuilt meego image for n900? Aug 08 10:25:07 that has the bme from the original firmware included? Aug 08 10:26:22 peterbjornx, I think that it has a newer bme Aug 08 10:26:27 peterbjornx, but ask in #meego Aug 08 11:25:00 Meanwhile: "Moody's Says Future U.S. Downgrade Possible" Aug 08 12:11:11 anyone know of a C app that listens to MCE signals? Aug 08 12:19:00 MohammadAG: Check fMSX source code Aug 08 12:19:17 MohammadAG: EMULib/Maemo/LibMaemo.cpp Aug 08 12:31:35 MohammadAG: my xchat plugin emits some mce signals, but no listen Aug 08 12:48:08 how's listening to mce signals different to generic dbus signal listening to arbitrary signals? Aug 08 12:49:03 main problem as always: now your signal, and know what exactly is the semantic Aug 08 12:50:59 Know* Aug 08 12:56:00 is there any good device that runs Maemo other than N900? (better dimensions) Aug 08 12:56:14 yes Aug 08 12:56:21 n810, n800, n770 Aug 08 12:56:35 -n Aug 08 12:56:37 However, that's probably not what you meat. Aug 08 12:56:42 true Aug 08 12:57:18 The n950 runs maemo - thogh you can't get it, and the n9 will too, an is due to e released in a month or two Aug 08 12:57:20 just checked them on google.. they resemble the n900 Aug 08 12:57:41 n9 is keyboardless and slimmer Aug 08 12:57:45 That may appeal to some Aug 08 12:57:55 N800 also kbd-less Aug 08 12:58:05 n9 runs on meego :p Aug 08 12:58:12 it is maemo6 Aug 08 12:58:13 Also it is capacitive, and thus caters to those with ohmophobia. Aug 08 12:58:19 stop fooling yourself Aug 08 12:58:33 Speed: That is how it is called nowadays? Aug 08 12:58:36 770, N800, N810 runs maemo Aug 08 12:58:50 harmattan = maemo Aug 08 12:58:55 IMO Aug 08 12:59:09 SpeedEvil, lol @ ohmophobia :) Aug 08 12:59:26 do Maemo devices come with a terminal app built in? Aug 08 12:59:38 harmattan is a class of its own Aug 08 12:59:51 neither proper maemo nor true meego Aug 08 12:59:55 pretty sure most do, don't know about N950 because I don't have one Aug 08 13:00:03 n950 does Aug 08 13:00:16 args[0], If you want a terminal app. wouldn't a physical kbd be very convenient? What would mean N900 or nothing. Aug 08 13:00:25 s/What/That/ Aug 08 13:00:25 ErwinJunge_ meant: args[0], If you want a terminal app. wouldn't a physical kbd be very convenient? That would mean N900 or nothing. Aug 08 13:00:32 i'll be buying the device just cause of it running *nix and terminal Aug 08 13:00:35 indeed Aug 08 13:01:05 N950 terminal afaik doesn't even open more than one instance Aug 08 13:01:18 :-P Aug 08 13:01:27 so n900? its cheaper now too Aug 08 13:01:35 you do also realise that maemo platform is strictly limited to Nokia Internet Tablets. Meaning only Nokia Internet Tablets are capable of running maemo. No other brands have maemo support Aug 08 13:01:42 Aegis at the moment is a moderate issue for those wantin to do 'normal unixy' stuff. Aug 08 13:02:07 Aegis is the secyrity platform - whos impact on the final release of the n9 is somewhat unclear. Aug 08 13:02:27 ooh? unclear? Aug 08 13:02:30 args[0], I'd recommend N900 in that case. It's the main reason I got one :) Aug 08 13:02:41 If, as seems possible, you can replace the kernel, and aegis goes away, and it all works, then that's fine. Aug 08 13:02:55 I bet a barrel of vodka aegis on N9 will be same crap as on N950 Aug 08 13:03:00 (Nobody as far as I'm aware has tested this yet) Aug 08 13:03:26 heh N900, the last of the defunct series with phone functionality and a proper hardware keyboard. Plus that its publicly available unlike the N950 Aug 08 13:03:36 If replacing the kernel means youhave to replace large slices of user-essential software, then it may have issues. Aug 08 13:03:51 does the n950 have aegis-su? Aug 08 13:03:59 it *will* be like that Aug 08 13:04:32 accounts are managed inside aegis, cellmo *is* an account Aug 08 13:04:39 ErwinJunge_: yeah, i'll keep my current phone and use N900 just for work (wifi) Aug 08 13:04:58 Anyway - waiting will resolve all of the questions. Aug 08 13:05:04 radiofree: yes Aug 08 13:05:12 If you're concerned about it, don't pre-order. (as a user) Aug 08 13:05:55 radiofree: but this won't change anything, if that's what you asked for Aug 08 13:07:01 radiofree: actually the purpose of aegis-su is largely unclear (to me at least) Aug 08 13:07:12 DocScrutinizer: no, I don't expect it to, but at least in there is that to get around a couple of aegis' neurosis while it's there Aug 08 13:07:29 sorry that didn't make sense.. Aug 08 13:07:51 at least it's there to get around SOME of aegis' over protectiveness :) Aug 08 13:08:30 oops sorry, I mixed aegis-su with aegis-exec Aug 08 13:08:40 is there already something similar to n900's maemo extras repository for n9(50)? it would be nice to see if there is some software actually available before they start selling n9 Aug 08 13:09:46 ...and devel-su or sth like that Aug 08 13:10:18 Trewas: packrat is the thing you want Aug 08 13:10:59 Trewas: http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page Aug 08 13:13:20 anyway N900 >>$* Aug 08 13:13:49 psycho_oreos, as do the N900, N950 and N9. Aug 08 13:14:08 DocScrutinizer: thanks, doesn't seem to be so centralised yet as maemo extras(-devel) Aug 08 13:14:09 my 2 cent: those who would like the N9 already got an android or iPhone Aug 08 13:14:24 DocScrutinizer, disagree. Aug 08 13:14:56 GAN900, what is that supposed to mean? N900 is publicly available with proper keyboard. N950 isn't publicly available. N9 doesn't have proper keyboard Aug 08 13:15:18 psycho_oreos, er, also run Maemo. Aug 08 13:16:07 DocScrutinizer, don't let the trees catch you up so much you can't see the forest. ;) Aug 08 13:16:09 GAN900, N950 doesn't count ;p it was only made available to maybe 1000 people. and N9 as stated on nokia's website as running meego 1.2 Aug 08 13:16:21 Trewas: (centralized) seems it never will be Aug 08 13:17:42 rzr's repo has potential to become N9's maemo-devel Aug 08 13:19:47 but for me N9 is completely uninteresting, for 3 reasons: No hw kbd, capacitive touchscreen, OS is locked up Aug 08 13:21:01 I'm sure hackers will get their grubby hands into the device and root it, like what they did with iphone, android, wp7, etc Aug 08 13:21:25 bleh, for some reason my n900 is now only showing a black display, reboot doesnt fix it. anyone got a idea? Aug 08 13:21:30 psycho_oreos: you didn't understand what TC is Aug 08 13:21:31 and no it didnt fall down or anything Aug 08 13:21:39 achipa, Qt Mobility fails to recompile for me Aug 08 13:22:06 psycho_oreos: there's no way to "root" aegis Aug 08 13:22:08 DocScrutinizer, nope I've missed that part Aug 08 13:22:39 linking libqtgeoservices_nokia.so Aug 08 13:22:40 ../../../build/Debug/qtgeoservices_nokia/moc_qgeotiledmapdata_nokia.o:(.data.rel.ro+0x70): undefined reference to `QtMobility::QGeoTiledMapData::setConnectivityMode(QtMobility::QGraphicsGeoMap::ConnectivityMode)' Aug 08 13:22:40 collect2: ld returned 1 exit status Aug 08 13:22:56 DocScrutinizer, there has to be a way to bypass it and then to be able to do various stuff with it Aug 08 13:23:03 it's almost like suggesting hackers get their hands into windows to make linux run on it Aug 08 13:23:44 psycho_oreos, MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan. Aug 08 13:23:54 I wouldn't doubt the impossible, no system/setup is perfect Aug 08 13:24:02 GAN900, and? meego != maemo Aug 08 13:24:15 psycho_oreos, politically it's Maemo, technically it's Maemo. Aug 08 13:24:33 For purposes of understanding its how and why, it's Maemo. Aug 08 13:24:47 psycho_oreos: it is not 'locked', it simply uses methods for essential stuff that you don't like to be used. You can get rid of the methods but then you got rid of the closed sw that is using these methods as well Aug 08 13:24:53 It's only really MeeGo in Qt use and marketing. Aug 08 13:25:00 GAN900, on the contrary to all that the base facts of what makes meego tick in terms of package management and what not is completely different to maemo Aug 08 13:25:49 psycho_oreos, right, and Harmattan uses all the Maemo stuff for that. :) Aug 08 13:26:14 psycho_oreos: it's almost like suggesting "hackers will crack bme" - no won't happen, as bme is connected to other stuff that needs to get "cracked" as well Aug 08 13:28:52 GAN900, it was stated that Harmattan is neither proper maemo nor a true meego. It still uses the deb package management system which is unrelated to the instance of meego using the rpm package management system. So I don't know why you put harmattan in there. Furthermore harmattan was a product that only materialised for those who met certain stringent requirements from nokia in order to obtain a working hybrid copy Aug 08 13:29:34 DocScrutinizer, *shrugs* not that I know what the future holds but I'm sure if there's enough interest there maybe some progress into reverse engineering Aug 08 13:30:40 you CAN NOT RE public key chain of trust architectures Aug 08 13:31:16 i.e. TPM? Aug 08 13:31:21 yes Aug 08 13:32:11 you can get a OS that's not using TPM but that's not harmattan then Aug 08 13:33:48 while a fremantle with PowerKernel arguably still is a fremantle Aug 08 13:33:58 well for now it would seem that would be the case. Mind you TPM deployment on more critical components is only recent, but at the end of the day the very same tool was only made by human Aug 08 13:34:29 what does aegis currently prevent from doing with n950? AFAIU it doesn't prevent from running applications from random/non-approved sources or those apps using any of the available functionality (network, phone calls, etc)? Aug 08 13:35:10 it does Aug 08 13:35:13 Trewas: Anything that touches the kernel, for example. Aug 08 13:35:26 If you want to add a NAT module to iptables, or USB host, or ... Aug 08 13:35:52 http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/029/b/9/emacs_user_at_work_by_earlcolour-d38aj2x.jpg Aug 08 13:35:56 SpeedEvil: well ok, I was thinking more on the userland side Aug 08 13:35:58 Something like that, yes Aug 08 13:36:09 Trewas: Userland apps that use those. Aug 08 13:36:35 Trewas: wireless hotspot, VPN'y stuff, USB mount drives/printers Aug 08 13:37:59 There is also the remaining issue of how closed will final n9 image be as-shipped. Aug 08 13:39:47 SpeedEvil: I get it that nothing needing kernel changes can be made (without help from nokia), but I never needed those in n900 either :) Aug 08 13:41:41 At the current state of the n950, most developers will not be affected much. Aug 08 13:41:43 Trewas: well, if you can live without USB-hostmode, without mobile hotspot, without simple brightness applet, without any of those 2G/3G handlers/optimizers... then yes you don't need anything of that Aug 08 13:42:04 Other than fining it more annoying to test and package apps. Aug 08 13:42:50 The more the app changes the normal way the phone works, the more likelyhood is it's not going to be possible without attempting to defeat aegis in some manner. Aug 08 13:43:22 custom ringtones Aug 08 13:43:22 Does this make the phone useless - no, of course not. Aug 08 13:43:35 It may greatly reduce the utility for some though. Aug 08 13:43:48 Even without philosophical discussions about openness. Aug 08 13:43:59 fwiw apparently joikuspot will be preinstalled in n9, so mobile hotspot will work Aug 08 13:44:11 err per-contact-ringtones Aug 08 13:44:23 well, if its going to stay this way i might solace myself with the fact that it would have been useless to me (n950 that is) Aug 08 13:44:25 Trewas: nope Aug 08 13:44:43 this doesn't mean mobile hotspot can work Aug 08 13:45:15 achipa, ping me when you're on Aug 08 13:45:23 yoghurt got some special permission of Nokia to tamper with system stuff. None of even the developers got that permission Aug 08 13:45:54 DocScrutinizer, custom ringtones are built in Aug 08 13:46:47 DocScrutinizer: ok, but even one working (assuming it is not badly crippled) mobile hotspot app is better than none Aug 08 13:47:17 MohammadAG: it's now about time for "err, per-user-ringtones might be not" Aug 08 13:47:30 sigh, i still cant fix my n900's screen. went black for no reason after using the music player for a while, seems to register with my pc tho, holding down u while booting (to see if the display can actually display something) doesnt work too Aug 08 13:47:34 any ideas? Aug 08 13:47:41 Trewas: what a silly rationale is that? Aug 08 13:48:11 DocScrutinizer, per user ringtones are implemented Aug 08 13:48:13 DocScrutinizer: a mostly non-developer rationale :) Aug 08 13:48:49 just edit a contact in contacts, scroll down to ringtone Aug 08 13:48:49 there's also groups in contacts with a ringtone for the group Aug 08 13:49:03 MohammadAG: well, that's same rationale Trewas just used. It doesn't matter if sth is "built in" Aug 08 13:49:06 also charging works, according to the led, no change to the display when charging tho Aug 08 13:49:18 the question is if devels could do it themselves Aug 08 13:51:06 also when the keyboard is slit out, that funny displaylock button/slider thingie does lite/blacken the keyboard Aug 08 13:51:09 -.- Aug 08 13:51:31 MohammadAG: we were not evaluating usability of harmattan prototype here, we discussed the general impact of TPM on a system's tweakability Aug 08 13:52:23 twoaday: try AV to TV Aug 08 13:52:56 twoaday: probably flat ribbon connector to screen broken Aug 08 13:54:50 DocScrutinizer: sigh, i hope its only that. and i dont have a chance to see if its the display connector for now Aug 08 13:55:08 in any case its a trip to the local nokia store -.- Aug 08 13:55:48 besides, i only need a working phone till i can get myhands on a n9 xD Aug 08 13:56:14 system tweakability was moved to /dev/null, they'll handle it there DocScrutinizer Aug 08 13:56:36 I am sure sooner or later there will be acustom kernel Aug 08 13:56:53 we're not arguing there Aug 08 13:57:14 I'm pretty sure once that happens most apps will break Aug 08 13:57:27 why? Aug 08 13:57:43 twoaday: they may warranty replace your n900 with a n8 - I'm unsure of the level of servicing done. Aug 08 13:58:09 SpeedEvil: what the hell do i want with a n8? Aug 08 13:58:32 Ebay it, and buy a n900? Aug 08 13:58:43 hi! Aug 08 13:58:45 And yes, that is far from ideal. Aug 08 13:58:55 SpeedEvil: Actually nowadays they replace with E7. Aug 08 13:59:00 * twoaday hpes it will not come tho this Aug 08 13:59:02 ah Aug 08 13:59:05 hopes* Aug 08 13:59:20 anybody known, if there are any source-packages of the maemo system components? i need clutter. Aug 08 13:59:26 so a shitty cable breaks and instead of a fix within the 1 year warrenty time i got on it Aug 08 13:59:31 SpeedEvil: I bet that too many people were rejecting those N8 replacements. Aug 08 13:59:35 they will give me a shitty e7 or n8? Aug 08 13:59:55 e7 is actually relatively nice Aug 08 13:59:56 E7 you can at least ebay (for 300 € or so) and still have some profit after you buy a used N900. Aug 08 14:00:15 People try to sell E7s for 400 € but no-one is buying. Aug 08 14:01:02 they prolly wait with the n9 release until each and every n900 warranty expired :P Aug 08 14:01:04 or maybe i should just forget about it,, get a shitty 50 euro phone and then wait for the n9 release xD Aug 08 14:01:15 The retail price is around 540 € and I suppose that only companies buy them (and companies won't buy from ebay). Aug 08 14:01:26 n9 wont be better than the n900 anyways Aug 08 14:01:42 true but it wont have a bloody broken display for no reason Aug 08 14:01:50 It is in many ways better, even if also worse in a few ways. Aug 08 14:01:51 at least i hope so Aug 08 14:02:09 If I had to choose, I'd take an N9. Aug 08 14:02:17 the only thing i would honestly miss on the n9 is the lack of the radio transmitter Aug 08 14:02:29 Harmattan is actually quite nice Aug 08 14:02:29 drop the TPM and it's the perfect replacement Aug 08 14:02:52 N900 still has far better selection of software but that is quickly changing. N9's benefits include a much better browser, enough RAM, etc. Aug 08 14:02:57 KEYBOARD Aug 08 14:03:10 OSD keyboard is quite fine on these devices, actually. Aug 08 14:03:17 the keyboard in my case is hardly used xD Aug 08 14:03:30 Lacks arrow keys and uses valuable screen space but other than that I can tolerate it. Aug 08 14:05:21 twoaday: But you get proper BT, so maybe you can use that instead of FMTX? Aug 08 14:05:42 (buy a new car/radio, etc) Aug 08 14:05:45 Tronic: possible, i wonder if there is a change in battery life Aug 08 14:06:22 In a car you have a charger in any case, right? Both FMTX and BT are quite low power, so I don't think it really matters. Aug 08 14:08:02 >wtfamireading.jpg Aug 08 14:08:23 i'll never touch a device without a physical keyboard with a 10 foot pole Aug 08 14:08:31 kerio: me has the black n900 screen problem, now discussion replacement phones xD Aug 08 14:08:41 it's easy Aug 08 14:08:42 another n900 Aug 08 14:09:07 kerio: i am done with n900's emotionally by now Aug 08 14:09:33 first n900 - broken usb connector - replacement...-now blackdisplay for no reason Aug 08 14:09:42 I blame Elop for not releasing an upgraded "N900" a long time ago. Aug 08 14:09:43 and no way to fix it from what i see Aug 08 14:10:13 Tronic: projection isnt my thing. from the feel by now the n900 is a shitty built way too experimental thing Aug 08 14:11:28 There is a huge market for such device, even if the software wasn't changed at all. Just new and better hardware and most of the current N900 users would be queueing in front of the stores for it. Aug 08 14:12:24 true Aug 08 14:12:36 most doent include me at the moment ;) Aug 08 14:12:40 yes but theres the problem, even if all current n900 users go and buy a replacement to it, commercially it's still pretty much a miserable failure for nokia, they dont want to be releasing a phone that racks up a few hundred thousand sales Aug 08 14:12:42 But Elop hasn't managed to release a single new product worth a mention during his term. Aug 08 14:12:56 the current n900 user base isnt "huge" by any stretch of the word Aug 08 14:13:01 As I said, E7 is nice Aug 08 14:13:07 No wonder Nokia is quickly losing market share because you cannot keep riding on N8/E7 forever. Aug 08 14:13:13 So is N8. Both are pretty usable. Aug 08 14:13:30 But I doubt lack of product is what brought Nokia share down Aug 08 14:13:50 RST38h: I disagree about usability/niceness, but the markets liked them and I blame Elop for not releasing more Symbian phones that would have kept the company alive. Aug 08 14:14:11 Tronic: As a smart phone, both are very decent examples Aug 08 14:14:28 Tronic: They are not Maemo fo course, but let us be objective here Aug 08 14:14:34 (and obviously I blame him for those burning platform statements which killed Symbian sales) Aug 08 14:14:40 yep Aug 08 14:14:55 Yes, the platform may have sucked, but it was still selling nicely. Aug 08 14:14:56 His talk and his actions pretty much trashing his employers business Aug 08 14:15:48 RST38h: I suppose that Anna is quite OK, but whatever Symbian comes with E7 isn't. Aug 08 14:16:09 Tronic I have got an E7 here. It is pretty good Aug 08 14:16:14 windows phone is the future ... Aug 08 14:16:21 ... burning platform Aug 08 14:16:23 The UI is horribly illogical and the web browser lacks basic navigation in the regular view. Aug 08 14:16:27 Tronic: the only complaint I have is the touchscreen ebing too sensitive Aug 08 14:16:49 Tronic: UI is logical enough, you just haven't used a Symbian phone before Aug 08 14:16:56 My mom has an E7. I have tried using it a few times but it is always pure horror. Aug 08 14:17:02 Tronic: the browser does suck a bit, but we have got Opera for that Aug 08 14:17:12 Of course, the browser also doesn't have support for modern web technologies. Aug 08 14:17:17 Tronic: It is not Maemo. Pure horror it is not either though Aug 08 14:17:39 Compare to iPhone or Android, it is pure horror. Aug 08 14:17:46 Compare to WP7, maybe it is actually good. Aug 08 14:17:52 Everything is relative :) Aug 08 14:17:52 basic phone, maps, music, video, camera ui are all pretty decent though Aug 08 14:18:00 camera hw sucks Aug 08 14:18:29 compared to wp7 everything is good and secure xD Aug 08 14:18:35 dunno Aug 08 14:18:55 handled wp7 at a store, did not like it, felt like a feature phone Aug 08 14:19:03 with really ugly ui too Aug 08 14:19:34 Not sure who and why would buy this wp7 thing when there is a plenty of very similar android hw available Aug 08 14:19:57 interesting comment. Aug 08 14:20:03 xbox gamers like the integration so I hear Aug 08 14:20:04 felt like a feature phone to you how, exactly? Aug 08 14:20:30 very limited functionality Aug 08 14:20:41 outside of intended few use cases Aug 08 14:21:17 RST38h: Except that Android looks better, works better and feels better. Not really the proper comparison for WP7. Aug 08 14:21:39 Tronic: exactly Aug 08 14:21:42 I suppose that WP7 might be compared against Blackberry or other crappy non-mainstream devices. Aug 08 14:21:58 "enterprise" is a good cussword for those, I suppose Aug 08 14:22:00 So, you have got pretty much the same hw, at the same price, showing side by side at a store Aug 08 14:22:26 Why would you buy the wp7 when android is so much better? Aug 08 14:22:33 btw Aug 08 14:29:55 bye Aug 08 14:32:12 RST38h, 'cause it integrates with Xbox Live, duh. Aug 08 14:52:06 LOL Aug 08 14:54:31 sup jeorg Aug 08 15:03:18 * MohammadAG needs UI suggestions for a shazam-like clone Aug 08 15:03:49 probably in QML, since it QWidgets look like crap on the N950 Aug 08 15:04:18 -it Aug 08 15:06:04 novel ui or a practical one? Aug 08 15:06:36 doesn't matter, I just suck at UIs when there isn't a native style to follow Aug 08 15:07:46 actually I'll start on the C++ backend first Aug 08 15:08:17 the main thing about shazam-like app is that it launches quick with an easy to tap button (preferably big in the middle ;)) Aug 08 15:08:41 MohammadAG: what about your audio player? :) Aug 08 15:09:16 maybe you could let it record as soon as you start it up Aug 08 15:09:28 MohammadAG, wut is shazam Aug 08 15:09:31 then as soon as you have a match, show the result Aug 08 15:10:07 so there's no need to press the app icon, wait for the app to start, then press the button, ... Aug 08 15:10:10 that should be optional (auto-record on launch), because if the user has time to prepare, they'll want to record the chorus part for easy tagging Aug 08 15:10:22 and maybe a little refresh button Aug 08 15:10:56 layout of the results depends on what kind of results you get (do you get album art or not?) Aug 08 15:11:15 Venemo, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shazam_%28service%29 Aug 08 15:11:48 the most annoying thing about maemo (i don't know if other phones are like this) is that apps start, but take a few seconds before they actually accept user input Aug 08 15:12:03 autostart would avoid this Aug 08 15:12:28 that's actually a fake screenshot Aug 08 15:12:33 Harmattan has this, but in a better way Aug 08 15:12:51 or you can just auto record to buffer, then (optionally) pick the start-end of sample to be sent for ID Aug 08 15:12:51 t Aug 08 15:12:54 hat'd be kinky Aug 08 15:12:54 you can have your own image, you can have a "Application is loading" image Aug 08 15:13:07 yeah, well, it's annoying if you were to put a button which does nothing the first few seconds Aug 08 15:13:39 it especially annoys me in the terminal Aug 08 15:13:55 that's what maemo doe Aug 08 15:13:56 s Aug 08 15:14:17 what will you be using as a backend? Aug 08 15:14:20 musicbrainz? Aug 08 15:14:27 or does shazam allow 3rd parties? Aug 08 15:14:39 invoker --splash=image.jpg /usr/bin/app Aug 08 15:14:52 ah, no wonder Aug 08 15:15:20 thanks for doing the whole CSSU thing, btw, you're doing an awesome job with that Aug 08 15:15:25 MohammadAG, doesn't sound like a complicated GUI. one big button and a text field. Aug 08 15:15:58 one big button, results on another page Aug 08 15:16:15 jonne, everyone's doing an awesome job, the CSSU would mean nothing without its contributors Aug 08 15:16:51 and optionally, a history of your past searches Aug 08 15:20:06 Venemo, how do I go from one page to another? Aug 08 15:20:24 telekenisis Aug 08 15:21:43 MohammadAG, you push it on top of your PageStackWindow Aug 08 15:21:56 how... Aug 08 15:22:11 I want something like onClicked: make this page and show it Aug 08 15:24:14 MohammadAG, see https://gitorious.org/colorful-apps/irc-chatter/blobs/master/qml/harmattan/main.qml#line4 and https://gitorious.org/colorful-apps/irc-chatter/blobs/master/qml/harmattan/ChatPage.qml#line44 Aug 08 15:26:29 Venemo, so you have to precreate the page? Aug 08 15:27:45 MohammadAG, I dunno how to progmatically create a QML element. all the ways I found to do it were hacky Aug 08 15:28:32 ResultsPage { Aug 08 15:28:33 id: resultsPage Aug 08 15:28:33 } Aug 08 15:28:39 why does it say syntax error on ResultsPage? Aug 08 15:29:13 oh nvm Aug 08 15:30:33 nice, black window Aug 08 15:30:59 MohammadAG, have you added ResultsPage.qml to your resources file (qrc) Aug 08 15:31:25 umm, that's kinda dumb Aug 08 15:31:45 why? Aug 08 15:32:20 it should add them itself Aug 08 15:32:52 but it doesn't. Aug 08 15:35:18 Venemo, the labels are overlapping, don't see why http://pastebin.com/dtwfe8A2 Aug 08 15:35:48 MohammadAG, delete the anchors Aug 08 15:35:57 MohammadAG, the Column {} should make them unnecessary Aug 08 15:36:23 also, anchors.top: parent.bottom -> doesn't make sense. Aug 08 15:36:51 MohammadAG, either use anchors, but then don't use the Column. or use the Column, but then no need for anchors. Aug 08 15:43:54 Venemo, shouldn't there be a back button? Aug 08 15:44:18 MohammadAG, only if you add it Aug 08 15:44:35 MohammadAG, https://gitorious.org/colorful-apps/irc-chatter/blobs/master/qml/harmattan/SettingsPage.qml#line10 Aug 08 15:56:18 QML isn't that bad with components Aug 08 15:56:56 MohammadAG ++ Aug 08 17:59:11 I'd like to profile an application running on my N900. Normally I use gprof for this. Is gprof also the way to go on Maemo? Aug 08 18:11:32 ErwinJunge_: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5#Performance might have some interesting bits Aug 08 18:17:19 DocScrutinizer, thanks Aug 08 18:18:09 there may be more stuff in that repo as well Aug 08 18:23:25 * ShadowJK wonders if oprofile works Aug 08 18:24:34 ShadowJK, I'm not ready to run it yet, need to set up a repeatable testcase first Aug 08 18:26:34 I'm hoping it works though, since I really need some decent profiling. I've ported a game to N900, but getting only about 5 fps. Need to figure out where to focus on performance improvements. **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Aug 08 18:30:38 2011 Aug 08 19:34:12 http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/ImWatch-plus-MotoActive/ <-- hmm Aug 08 19:40:54 DocScrutinizer: OT: did you ever try zrtp in twinkle? Aug 08 19:41:09 once, yes Aug 08 19:41:45 DocScrutinizer: i have tried all sorts of things, but not able to use zrtp. is there any other client which has some voip security? Aug 08 19:42:57 nothing known here. zrtp setup is a bit tricky, but once configured it's working flawlessly. You first of all need to enable it on both ends, it's disabled by default Aug 08 19:43:52 DocScrutinizer: i did enable in twinkle at both ends, but wasnt successful. Aug 08 19:43:59 :-S Aug 08 19:44:26 please post on twinkle forum for help Aug 08 19:44:57 I've not touched it since ~2 years Aug 08 19:45:14 DocScrutinizer: no, worries. cheers Aug 08 19:45:29 so there are others that have more recent advice and experience Aug 08 19:47:02 trumee: please do it *fast* as I need to set your account to "not moderated" Aug 08 19:47:25 and I'm not exactly online in 6h, for several days Aug 08 19:49:35 DocScrutinizer: i have posted before on the twinkle yahoo forum. didt know that it was moderated for each post Aug 08 19:49:54 what's your nick there? Aug 08 19:50:38 odds are I already have set you to not_moderated Aug 08 19:51:43 trumee: ^^^ Aug 08 19:52:10 DocScrutinizer: ok, did another post Aug 08 19:52:54 got it, you're not moderated Aug 08 19:53:01 DocScrutinizer: cool Aug 08 19:54:17 DocScrutinizer: sad to see csipsimple has zrtp support and we dont :( Aug 08 19:57:44 trumee: btw you got or noticed my patchset in files section there? I think most of it never made it to Michel's build, as it's a combined file Aug 08 19:58:01 should be easy enough to cherrypick nevertheless Aug 08 19:58:35 fixes some size and layout issues in Qt, as well as some bugs Aug 08 19:59:11 plus iirc brings some additional function key, for sth that had no hotkey before Aug 08 19:59:32 DocScrutinizer: interesting Aug 08 20:00:00 pus it makes all the settings all colored which been hated a lot ;-P Aug 08 20:00:16 plus* Aug 08 20:00:56 I tried to mark everyday settings green and super-expert settings red iirc Aug 08 20:01:34 DocScrutinizer: cool Aug 08 20:13:01 man, all these youtube clients are terrible Aug 08 20:13:50 zoutube doesn't find anything, no matter what I enter. cutetube and qmltube are extremely slow, can't play fluently, and the search results are much worse than the web search, mytube is quirky and doesn't download. Aug 08 20:28:02 youtube recently (day before yesterday) changed api and broke every client Aug 08 20:28:34 actually it was on the 4th Aug 08 20:28:42 so 4 days ago Aug 08 20:28:46 something like that Aug 08 20:28:58 youtube-dl got fixed on the same day Aug 08 20:29:01 or was it on the 3rd even Aug 08 20:29:18 I think on the 3rd Aug 08 20:29:21 * ShadowJK wonders if cutetube and qmltube and cutetube-qml and whatever try to play stuff composited Aug 08 20:30:31 hmm yeah it was on the third... I recall having to install some firecrud addon that reads the url from the video playing Aug 08 20:53:35 Alright, I'm still looking for a cheap phone with a real gps chip. Aug 08 20:53:47 does anyone have a recommendation? my googling is coming up with nothing. Aug 08 20:56:13 well, as people have told you before, all gps phones have "real" gps chips... there's not much more to say Aug 08 20:56:50 supposedly it's the antennas that are bad, not the gps chips Aug 08 20:57:11 everything that i've found indicates that the "real gps" chips that most nokia phones have only work with "a-gps" which only works with a subscriber gsm Aug 08 20:57:36 well, then that's incorrect Aug 08 20:57:50 can you take your sim card out of your phone and get a signal lock? Aug 08 20:58:03 i have CDMA service here... no card to remove. Aug 08 20:59:26 should be possible if I want to wait long enough for the chip to download almanac off satellite (slow and unreliable if signal is poor) instead of over internet (fast) Aug 08 21:00:10 so how does a car gps without internet connectivity do it so quickly? Aug 08 21:00:40 it probably stores it in flash memory so it doesn't have to download it all the time Aug 08 21:01:13 so as long as you don't move out of a certian raidus from when you shut it off last time it doesn't take 30 minutes to download the almanac Aug 08 21:01:44 why is a phone's gps incapable of doing this and instead reliant on a-gps? Aug 08 21:01:49 car gps has the advantage of fix mount, no users waving it franticly around, no users blocking signal with hand and body :-) Aug 08 21:02:08 just a great big hulk of metal Aug 08 21:02:45 heh, i've taken my dash mount garmin gps hiking with me and it doesn't have an issue keeping a signal Aug 08 21:02:50 sevvv, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_to_first_fix Aug 08 21:03:12 The a-gps page on wikipeia is also good. Aug 08 21:03:20 mgedmin: this article is awesome. Aug 08 21:03:21 (Or was, when I was editing it) Aug 08 21:04:25 sevvv: possibly because the phone's antenna is not good enough to receive the satellite data reliably, I think Aug 08 21:04:46 could that be boosted? Aug 08 21:05:09 no Aug 08 21:06:11 especially when the datarate is so low it takes half a minute of good signal to receive ephemeris Aug 08 21:06:21 alright, so i should just be looking for the cheapest phone with gps instead of trying to compare specifications Aug 08 21:06:43 Why do you want a phone with GPS> Aug 08 21:07:10 SpeedEvil: I need to track 10 people running cross country across the US from coast to coast Aug 08 21:07:36 I suggest anvils. Aug 08 21:07:58 I need cheap phones with gps, the ability to connect it to a pc via usb/bluetooth/whatever, and exports to gpx, csv, kml, whatever. Aug 08 21:08:01 haha Aug 08 21:08:16 why not use an actual gps tracker designed for that purpose? Aug 08 21:08:20 There are general GPS trackers Aug 08 21:08:24 there are dedicated gps+gsm trackers iirc Aug 08 21:08:28 nid0: I can't find any that are cheap enough for my budget Aug 08 21:08:33 See on wiki.openstreetmap.org Aug 08 21:08:39 first result on google for me is £85 Aug 08 21:08:43 ShadowJK: none of them will have cellular subscriptions Aug 08 21:08:51 thats a damn sight cheaper than most gps-equipped phones Aug 08 21:08:54 nid0: i'm looking in the 20-30 usd range, buying used phones. Aug 08 21:10:38 so there's lots and lots of gps tracking software out there, most of them java, that's great Aug 08 21:10:43 but i can't find hardware Aug 08 21:11:17 Ask over in #osm over on irc.oftc.net Aug 08 21:11:56 ok Aug 08 21:18:49 ahoy Aug 08 21:20:07 lcuk: andriod vs ios dev article Aug 08 21:20:35 does andrios really not use an invalidat-rect system to redraw? Aug 08 21:20:56 fusi, IDK, I just glanced over the article and rted Aug 08 21:21:00 * lcuk is not android user Aug 08 21:28:34 Holy shit. Aug 08 21:28:47 Just ran into an actually N900 user-user. Aug 08 21:29:39 you mean, a non-linux-geek? Aug 08 21:29:52 Yes. Aug 08 21:29:56 wow Aug 08 21:29:59 i.e., a sucker. Aug 08 21:30:10 Funky. Aug 08 21:30:25 From Nigeria, no less. Aug 08 21:30:29 Did you attempt to grill them? Aug 08 21:30:50 I'm astonished that the n900 user study is still running. Aug 08 21:32:43 I saw something weird in repos the other day Aug 08 21:33:04 I've sacrificed privacy for $5/mo in payments. Aug 08 21:33:37 something with "Nokia" in the name and dependency on openjdk Aug 08 21:33:47 Odd Aug 08 21:38:49 is anybody joining chaos camp? Aug 08 21:44:00 Ihad swappiness set to 100... Is this really a default value? Aug 08 21:45:04 yes Aug 08 21:47:35 What's chaos camp? Aug 08 21:48:25 It's some sort of crazed orgy in Germany I think. Aug 08 21:51:45 Burning Man for Germans? Aug 08 22:05:25 kinda Aug 08 22:05:32 haha Aug 08 22:05:46 https://events.ccc.de/camp/2011/wiki/Main_Page Aug 08 22:06:07 only computer geeks there Aug 08 22:06:53 or rather: https://events.ccc.de/camp/2011/wiki/Project_Flow_Control Aug 08 22:11:34 or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oltr7zrJi3o Aug 08 22:16:59 the CCC's each year between xmas and new year are a true parallel universe - I hope this to be even better Aug 08 22:20:24 hackers' loveparade ;-) Aug 08 22:25:42 GAN900: if it was only for Germans, probably there wouldn't be a majority of talks in English Aug 08 22:27:58 DocScrutinizer, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean. Aug 08 22:28:37 I know what you mean, I just wonder why you're not there :-) Aug 08 22:28:39 Besides, don't dialects often make German language conversation from region-to-region chancey business? Aug 08 22:28:49 No money for airplanes? Aug 08 22:29:23 GAN900: our dialects are no worse than yours Aug 08 22:30:52 yes, very hard to understand those Americans ;) Aug 08 22:31:11 all the missing u's Aug 08 22:31:43 how's everyone this evening? Aug 08 22:31:51 all those not in London that is Aug 08 22:41:41 having fun in London? Aug 08 22:43:35 lardman, well at least our Northerners and Southerners can understand one another. :P Aug 08 22:44:35 GAN900: after that little war you had a few years back? ;) Aug 08 22:44:50 how's things GAN900? Long time no see Aug 08 22:44:53 the % of population we don't understand here is no larger than on your side of the pond Aug 08 22:45:42 * lardman is watching BBC News 24 and London riots seem to be pretty nasty and widespread Aug 08 22:46:05 :nod: Aug 08 22:46:44 you got some really angry kids over there Aug 08 22:47:04 yeah, pretty random, who'd have thought this would happen Aug 08 22:47:48 DocScrutinizer, that's not what the tourists say. Aug 08 22:48:08 remember kids: it's only fun when it's other people's cars that are burning x_x Aug 08 22:49:28 II doubt many of them are old enough to drive Aug 08 22:49:35 s/angry/idiot/ Aug 08 22:49:47 +1 Aug 08 22:53:50 DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! Aug 08 22:54:48 * DangerMaus smacks infobot with a pie Aug 08 22:54:51 hildon desktop with portraitmode looks pretty nice :) but the widgets need ajustments in size :) Aug 08 22:54:55 infobot: ah, you greet Doc, but don't answer my friendly greeting in #harmattan, I could take offence Aug 08 22:55:09 http://i54.tinypic.com/2055fz5.jpg x_x Aug 08 23:00:41 could someone with fremantle sb up and running see what maemo-version(-dev) creates by way of files in /etc for me please? Aug 08 23:09:33 anyone know whether one can have conditionals within a "section" of a debian/rules file? Aug 08 23:10:13 e.g. I'd like to execute dh_installinit within the ibinary-arch: section f we're under Fremantle, but not Harmattan Aug 08 23:11:36 s/ibinary-arch/binary-arch Aug 08 23:18:38 * lardman heads for bed Aug 08 23:18:40 night all Aug 08 23:27:37 DangerMaus: long time no see! Aug 08 23:28:08 yeah Aug 08 23:28:42 too busy to do anything Aug 09 02:52:39 good morning **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Aug 09 02:59:56 2011