**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 18 02:59:56 2011 Aug 18 04:28:31 n900 error unable to connect via usb device storage in use???? Aug 18 04:40:02 when connecting the N900 to a computer by USB, it attempts to unmount the MyDocs partition and export it to the computer Aug 18 04:40:37 it doesn't do that if you are using files from that partition, to prevent filesystem damage Aug 18 04:40:58 hmm...i rebooted its working now Aug 18 04:41:16 yeah, that's a sure fire way to stop using files from the MyDocs partition :) Aug 18 04:50:23 how i rename files in a folder for instance 01 03 docin 01.odt 02 03 docin 01.odt 03 03 docin 01.odt , i want to delete the leading 01 and 02 so forth in one single command Aug 18 05:49:14 robbiethe1st: please see ~usbfix! Aug 18 05:57:15 hmh, thinkpad tablet has cortex-a9 Aug 18 05:57:44 <_< We need a thinkpad phone! Aug 18 05:58:03 hmhm, cortex-a9 but tegra 2 Aug 18 05:58:06 does that make sense? Aug 18 05:58:25 (they do a “lephone” but...) Aug 18 05:58:35 (not sure it's really a thinkphone) Aug 18 05:59:02 note that the early n900 versions looked a bit like a thinkpad :) Aug 18 05:59:48 Yea, and even the production model has *some* resemblence Aug 18 06:00:33 I.e. black, well-built, decent hardware and ability to run full-tilt without overheating Aug 18 06:44:31 jacekowski: one of my devices is all assigned to this project for you Aug 18 07:29:16 do we have Qt 4.7.4 for N900 on some level? Aug 18 07:30:19 no, but we'll have 4.8 in 1.3 Aug 18 07:30:26 err, meego 1.3 Aug 18 07:30:29 (wrong channel, sorry) Aug 18 07:31:50 Stskeeps, yeah I wanted it for maemo5 Aug 18 07:32:07 there are some experimental qt packages in devel but they seem to be 4.7.0 :/ Aug 18 07:34:26 Stskeeps: ltnc Aug 18 07:34:34 luke-jr: moo Aug 18 07:34:46 Stskeeps: what's new? Aug 18 07:35:23 luke-jr: not much Aug 18 07:35:51 Stskeeps: what's the plan when Nokia finally stops working on MeeGo/N9? Aug 18 07:36:15 luke-jr: currently we're working to make sustainable binaries Aug 18 07:36:21 sustainable? Aug 18 07:36:27 and ways to make sure they're always updated Aug 18 07:36:43 yeah, as in, those kind of binaries that are closed but aren't bothering you except for philosophical reasons Aug 18 07:37:15 they're still needed? :| Aug 18 07:39:04 anyhow, gotta get some sleep Aug 18 07:39:05 night Aug 18 07:39:17 moin Stskeeps Aug 18 07:39:22 Night luke-jr. Aug 18 07:39:36 moin SpeedEvil Aug 18 07:39:44 DocScrutinizer: debatable. Aug 18 07:39:50 It might be midday, I'm unsure. Aug 18 07:39:53 :-S Aug 18 07:40:59 "moin" or "moin moin" -> Norther German greeting, don't mistake this for "morning" Aug 18 07:41:55 Ah Aug 18 07:42:16 very close to UGT Aug 18 08:04:51 what is the url of vlc repository? Aug 18 08:06:57 http://download.videolan.org/pub/videolan/maemo/vlc/ Aug 18 08:10:42 wow! didn't know that Aug 18 08:11:44 fyi that isn't the proper way to add it as a repository :) Aug 18 08:12:34 yeah :P Aug 18 08:16:28 it's debatable if it's a proper way at all to add a repo for getting this one package Aug 18 08:17:33 psycho_oreos: err maybe that's what you said? Aug 18 08:18:27 DocScrutinizer, *scratches head* well not exactly, what I meant was that I'm sure that person wanted the actual deb line :) Aug 18 08:19:38 right - then I answer he shouldn't do it this way at all, better get the .deb, or look for vlc in extras-devel (dunno if it's there) Aug 18 08:22:39 isn't in extras-devel Aug 18 08:25:33 isn't a repo either? Aug 18 08:25:44 wget http://download.videolan.org/pub/videolan/maemo/vlc/ Aug 18 08:26:15 dpkg -i * Aug 18 08:26:22 wow getting qtcomponents to work on N900 is not trivial... Aug 18 08:26:59 that link is actually meant to be a repository :) if you dig around you'll see dists directory :) Aug 18 08:27:39 ooh, k. nevertheless I don't feel like adding a repo to my catalogs list for a single package Aug 18 08:29:31 fyi:　http://gerrymoth.co.uk/?p=278 Aug 18 08:29:46 that's how one is supposed to add it into their HAM/fapman :) Aug 18 08:30:17 but the technical good thing about adding the repository just for one package is that it makes apt take care of the guesswork Aug 18 08:31:30 the bad thing is neither ham nor fapman are meant to handle long lists of catalogs in a non-sucking manner Aug 18 08:32:41 indeed Aug 18 08:32:48 and each additional repo adds chances your daily (hourly?) automatic check for updates will fail due to one of them being temporarily not available, or simply fsackdup Aug 18 08:33:19 though with all that in mind, fapman still handles better than HAM　overall, afterall fapman is basically a GUI over apt-* tools Aug 18 08:34:45 with all the problems this introduces. There's a reason HAM does additional things fapman doesn't bother to take care about. That's why fapman fails on some packages, also why sometimes fapman completely messes up all your database Aug 18 08:36:22 ham as well is a gui with apt-get backend Aug 18 08:37:36 and while there are definitely some idiotic things in ham that make it unbearably slow in handling, some of the stuff that ham does is quite needed and eventually you'll learn it's not a good idea fapman "optimized" them out Aug 18 08:37:53 i have to say that with zypper i don't find myself missing apt :p Aug 18 08:38:17 zypper on fremantle? o.O Aug 18 08:38:37 flailingmonkey, aptitude zypper whatever. they're all the same imo. Aug 18 08:39:18 yup Aug 18 08:39:25 i know, but one thing people got grumpy about with the whole deb vs. rpm thing was they wouldn't have apt Aug 18 08:39:46 I couldn't care less, and I'm not joining in to the daily deb vs rpm flamewar :-D Aug 18 08:39:49 yum... doesn't cut it IMO Aug 18 08:40:41 as far as I'm concerned apt == yum, aptitude == zypper Aug 18 08:40:52 docscrutinizer, but some things make HAM needlessly slow. for example it is not possible to choose a batch of packages to install. Aug 18 08:41:10 flux, didn't they add that in pr1.3? Aug 18 08:41:15 oh, nice :-) Aug 18 08:41:20 maybe not. Aug 18 08:41:23 I don't use ham Aug 18 08:41:26 flux: I thought I pretty clearly stated above there are such idiotic flaws in HAM, yes Aug 18 08:41:52 also, another thing that has annoyed about apt/dpkg in general is that apparently binary databases are the evil Aug 18 08:41:57 DocScrutinizer, I think the slow refresh is the biggest problem Aug 18 08:42:12 but perhaps it's just a matter of someone writing an sqlite backend for it :) (and breaking tons of tools in the process perhaps) Aug 18 08:43:01 I think ham would be ok if all the lists were cached and automagically refreshed in the background (if set to do so) evey now and then, and when the app is launched the cached lists are shown. Aug 18 08:43:12 mece: ack Aug 18 08:43:43 not even across launches, just across installation steps Aug 18 08:44:03 mece, I also wouldn't mind if it supported the more recent (in debian) incremental updates of the database :) Aug 18 08:44:27 though showing a cached list while updating in background was a really smart thing to do Aug 18 08:44:27 I thought HAM heavily relies on its internal apt-worker.real program. Though with red pill enabled I saw an option to make HAM use apt-get algorithms Aug 18 08:45:28 psycho_oreos: aiui apt-worker is a wrapper around apt-get Aug 18 08:45:34 ahh Aug 18 08:55:04 never looked into it - a pstree would tell in an instant Aug 18 08:56:18 might also be possible apt-worker and apt-get both use a libabtget.so that has all of the heavy lifting Aug 18 08:57:09 * psycho_oreos should probably try doing that.. hmm needs to be done on the secondary/spare N900 Aug 18 08:59:25 nah it doesn't appear to call apt-get, gonna check on libaptget.so's reverse dependencies Aug 18 09:00:21 apt-worke 11297 root mem REG 254,1 799464 8292 /usr/lib/libapt-pkg-libc6.5-6.so.4.6.0 <--- that's as far as I got when running lsof against the PID Aug 18 09:01:36 btw, speaking of apt ... why nobody cared to pin / depend on those packages which must not be removed by autoremove? Aug 18 09:02:41 I think the level of concern is neglegible, most people would just use fancy GUI tools like HAM and fapman, be done with it Aug 18 09:03:02 otoh some devs are probably a little careless ;) Aug 18 09:03:02 NO Aug 18 09:03:16 you are Aug 18 09:03:21 you will WGET packages, untar them manually and place the files by hand. Aug 18 09:03:27 that is your package manager Aug 18 09:03:35 and you will be glad of it. Aug 18 09:03:42 lol Aug 18 09:03:55 and when you want to remove it, you manually remove every piece of the files by hand as well? Aug 18 09:04:04 hahaha Aug 18 09:04:06 psycho_oreos: well duh. Aug 18 09:04:06 sounds plenty of fun and time wasting :) Aug 18 09:04:30 you simply keep a log of all installed files written with sed Aug 18 09:04:31 anyhow, moving right along.. did you get that lock switch sorted? Aug 18 09:04:32 also automatic updates ... Aug 18 09:04:45 psycho_oreos: -_- Aug 18 09:04:51 I reflashed Aug 18 09:04:55 by the time you catter for all those ugly bits, you have reinvented apt/rpm again Aug 18 09:04:58 as a last hope effort Aug 18 09:05:16 GPIO113 is still spazzing out like a scoper Aug 18 09:05:28 fyi apt is front end for dpkg.. and the actual filenames ends with .deb :) Aug 18 09:05:47 HOWEVER Aug 18 09:05:56 I have just aquired a NEW N900 Aug 18 09:06:03 Never been used Aug 18 09:06:07 gz ;-) Aug 18 09:06:33 vi__, heh ouch, I was playing with mtd_debug today as per what DocScrutinizer mentioned for an alternative means of one backing up rootfs. I managed to see some strings in mtd0 (x-loader) with some information on GPIO Aug 18 09:06:54 get gentoo, use the source.. luke ;) Aug 18 09:06:57 psycho_oreos: you have my attention, tell me more Aug 18 09:07:41 gentoo? nah, I have a gitlfriend. Aug 18 09:07:44 vi__, its nothing of any particular interest but it seems like xloader may check some info, though most of which are purely debugging (r&d), memtesting and loading kernel purposes Aug 18 09:08:24 psycho_oreos: so...? Aug 18 09:09:10 vi__, I saw this as a string, I really don't know if its of any use to you:　gpio_switch_config has zero length! Aug 18 09:10:39 in fact there's a few more hits with searching for words gpio.. fyi this can be done without the need of mtd-utils, just strings /dev/mtd0|　less Aug 18 09:11:29 in fact mtd_debug imo behaves very much like dd, I dumped mtd special devices to a regular file using both of these programs and the results were exact same, even the md5sums matched Aug 18 09:12:41 the only worthy to note here is that the tools provided in mtd-utils provides more fascinating insight, like mtdinfo tells you what mtd devices belonged to what part. I　never knew mtd0 was actually xloader Aug 18 09:13:51 * DocScrutinizer elects gitlfriend for the word of the day :-D Aug 18 09:15:31 vi__, oh fyi, pastebin of grepped words matching gpio :)) http://pastebin.com/MtZ7thq9 Aug 18 09:15:38 lol Aug 18 09:15:58 DocScrutinizer, please, only words that are in the dictionary Aug 18 09:16:01 ~dict girlfriend Aug 18 09:16:03 Dictionary 'girlfriend' (2 of 3): a girl or young woman with whom a man is romantically involved; "his girlfriend kicked him out" ;; any female friend; "Mary and her girlfriend organized the party". Aug 18 09:16:09 psycho_oreos: this clearlyx indicates mtd_debig had no bad blocks to take care of, otherwise the results of dd and mtd_debug would differ Aug 18 09:16:14 See, doesn't exist. Aug 18 09:16:25 Gitlfriend must be a vesion-controlled girlfriend. Aug 18 09:16:54 gitgf checkout 22yo Aug 18 09:16:58 takes a whole new meaning Aug 18 09:17:11 DocScrutinizer, true, I literally forgot about bad block handling, but I thought the alternative for one would then be to use dd_rescue? :) Aug 18 09:17:38 gitgf checkout sister Aug 18 09:17:40 no, as badblock management on mtd is a rather special thing Aug 18 09:18:20 [2011-08-17 17:18:49] disclaimer: I haven't *checked* if mtd_debug handles bad blocks correctly, just assumed it as otherwise the tool was rather redundant aka useless Aug 18 09:18:55 redundant here means: "dd would be the same as mtd_debug" Aug 18 09:19:27 bwah stupid mailing lists. How do I know if this thing worked? Aug 18 09:20:35 hah! *facepalms self* it pays to read the entire thing :) Though I have yet to find out exactly where my bad PEB is. I previously skimmed through some information on ubifs and jffs2 for instance and their way of handling files/errors and what not are very different to conventional means Aug 18 09:21:59 i.e. a pita for one to not be able to harness ubifs/jffs2 as a regular block device Aug 18 09:22:17 yes, that's what it's all about Aug 18 09:22:43 and I'd think mtd_debug has all the magic built in Aug 18 09:23:03 Well, you *can* use it as a block device, but it won't preserve/handle bad blocks etc. Aug 18 09:23:31 Imma gonna ask a question Aug 18 09:23:59 what now confuses me is that most likely prior to mounting these ubifs images is whether or not when after examining NAND chip and found a few PEB be added into the NAND　or because its handled in its own unique way that the actual bad PEB is skipped out Aug 18 09:24:09 so I use flasher to unpack the rootfs firmware image and find a jffs2 'blob' Aug 18 09:24:19 so now robbie could finally revert to / add optional handling of raw images to backupmenu, as it was in the very beginning and gut bashed for using dd and thus potentially doing harm to NAND as it didn't know to handle bad blocks Aug 18 09:24:32 its not jffs2 blob, its ubifs for N900 :) Aug 18 09:24:45 true Aug 18 09:25:15 s/ gut / got / Aug 18 09:25:15 DocScrutinizer meant: so now robbie could finally revert to / add optional handling of raw images to backupmenu, as it was in the very beginning and got bashed for using dd and thus potentially doing harm to NAND as it didn't know to handle bad blocks Aug 18 09:25:28 Yea Aug 18 09:25:28 s/few/few\ bad/ Aug 18 09:25:53 so are we any closer to creating custom firmware images that we can flash? Aug 18 09:26:02 doubt it Aug 18 09:26:04 ^*noob question* Aug 18 09:26:29 IIRC, we could already do that. Aug 18 09:26:57 It requires a Linux PC, mtd-utils, a tarball of files and a couple of commands Aug 18 09:27:10 I have all these things Aug 18 09:27:18 where is documentation? Aug 18 09:27:35 and are backupmenu tarballs good enough? Aug 18 09:27:41 robbiethe1st: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1072242&postcount=14 Aug 18 09:27:41 Yes. Aug 18 09:28:12 can I shove my own kernel into the image as well? Aug 18 09:28:58 Yes and no: we don't yet know how to make a "combined" image, but we can flash kernel and rootfs independantly with flasher Aug 18 09:29:05 those are both doable Aug 18 09:29:32 the kernel's not anything special; just grab the file from any N900 kernel deb package Aug 18 09:29:38 ok who's on maemo-developers mailing list? Aug 18 09:30:04 that link is just to DocScrutinizer smack talk about how great it would be. Aug 18 09:30:26 is there any actual documentation WRT rolling our own firmwares? Aug 18 09:30:50 fiascogen being a buzzword for that aiui Aug 18 09:31:40 http://www.google.de/search?q=fiascogen Aug 18 09:33:11 http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?t=74121 >>how to generate flashable eMMC image with fiasco-gen and flasher<< Aug 18 09:38:39 fiasco-gen needs a kernel image Aug 18 09:38:45 is this 'zimage'? Aug 18 09:39:18 fiasco-gen needs a rootfsimage Aug 18 09:39:32 is this simply a rootfs tarball Aug 18 09:39:36 zimage = kernel Aug 18 09:39:39 aka BUM tarball? Aug 18 09:39:49 I　thought rootfsimage == ubifs image Aug 18 09:39:50 it's a rootfs ubifs image Aug 18 09:39:57 (BUM==BackUpMenu) Aug 18 09:40:22 ~bum Aug 18 09:40:22 methinks bum is Turkish word. Aug 18 09:40:24 So i have to convert the BUM tarball to an UBIFS filesystem? Aug 18 09:40:35 Yes Aug 18 09:40:37 ~bum is also maemo BackUpMenu Aug 18 09:40:37 okay, DocScrutinizer Aug 18 09:40:38 ~dict BUM Aug 18 09:40:40 Dictionary 'BUM' (4 of 14): the fleshy part of the human body that you sit on; "he deserves a good kick in the butt"; "are you going to sit on your fanny and do nothing?" ;; of very poor quality ;; person who does no work; "a lazy bum" ;; a disreputable vagrant; "a homeless tramp"; "he tried to help the really down-and-out bums" . Aug 18 09:41:38 It will take: extracting archive to a Linux filesystem(to preserve permissions), setting up and running the ubifs utility(i forget the name), etc Aug 18 09:42:19 there's a guide around: http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/01/making-flashable-rootfss-for-n900.html Aug 18 09:42:48 robbiethe1st: much obliged robbie the thiest Aug 18 09:44:29 so in short: Aug 18 09:45:03 1. convert ~BUM tarball to ubifs using the above Aug 18 09:45:42 2. extract the kernel I want to includes zimage (asumming the modules are already in the rootfsimage) Aug 18 09:45:57 3. flash both individually Aug 18 09:46:04 3. use fiasco-gen to roll the lot into a rootfs.bin for flasher Aug 18 09:46:35 Don't need to Aug 18 09:46:41 Just use the -k and -r options Aug 18 09:46:43 4. restore opt with BUM (assuming BUM included in rootfs) Aug 18 09:46:50 good morning, im trying to pack a .deb for an arm architecture, but i get the error: dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: no dependency information found for mylib.so - how would i generate that information? i have the .so in place but that doesnt seem to be enough. the target is an n900 smartphone, so the package is crosscompiled using the qtsdk Aug 18 09:47:19 x29a_: lol, i dunno Aug 18 09:48:02 the builtin libs (beeing qt mobility 1.0.2) work, but i need 1.2 features :( Aug 18 10:09:15 has meego stopeed sucking asses yet? Aug 18 11:00:28 vi__: id go to #meego with that question ;) Aug 18 11:04:22 vi__, depends on what you mean. Aug 18 11:12:19 I just looked over the report for the lates build. Aug 18 11:12:25 The camera doesnt even work Aug 18 11:12:27 fail Aug 18 11:13:10 when simple things like 'dialer does not launch when selecting contact from phone book' is the level of error they are still dealing with Aug 18 11:13:15 ... Aug 18 11:13:46 Just slap the fcam drivers+fcamera on that shit and use it as the default! Aug 18 11:14:28 I want it to work so bad Aug 18 11:14:35 meego that is Aug 18 11:14:47 to ACTUALLY be a viable alternative to maemo Aug 18 11:15:32 welcome to obsolete ville. Population, N900. Aug 18 11:16:01 doesn't it already work so bad? Aug 18 11:16:03 i've a question about meego, can i ask it here? kuz ppl at #meego are asleep Aug 18 11:16:16 TimmyT: lol, ok Aug 18 11:16:47 . Aug 18 11:17:55 problem is it has no interface Aug 18 11:18:11 there was that whole cordia thing, but i guess that is dead now Aug 18 11:19:36 handset UX==interfECES Aug 18 11:23:21 vi__: ( 4. restore opt with BUM (assuming BUM included in rootfs) ) That's the plan, as of my book Aug 18 11:24:03 vi__: actually that's what I meant by "integration" and "interoperability" int that #14 tmo post Aug 18 11:39:05 DocScrutinizer: ok, thanks Aug 18 11:39:48 vi__: no reason to thank me, I don't think I gave any help or sth yet :-) Aug 18 11:39:54 what with the impending doom of maemo, it is important for me to make my own 'image' that I can use to restore my own device without any outside help Aug 18 11:42:00 full ack Aug 18 11:43:18 restore via BUM still somewhat depends on a working repo infra etc, that's not my ideal workflow Aug 18 11:43:47 DocScrutinizer: why does it depend? Aug 18 11:44:21 the fiasco image that already contains BUM is a mandatory component for a proper comprehensive recovery strategy Aug 18 11:44:49 yes Aug 18 11:45:08 Also, I have to wonder why people started calling it BUM instead of BM? Aug 18 11:45:11 of course a fiasco img that actually restores _my_ system incl all the customized bits would be even greater Aug 18 11:45:27 ok, concern noticed Aug 18 11:45:27 Seems like this mutation occured on this channel, tonight only Aug 18 11:45:36 it did Aug 18 11:45:45 ~forget bum Aug 18 11:45:45 i forgot bum, DocScrutinizer Aug 18 11:45:50 ~bum Aug 18 11:46:00 meh Aug 18 11:46:04 ~bm Aug 18 11:46:04 bm is, like, bob mutch in chilliwack. Bermuda Aug 18 11:46:16 ~backupmenu Aug 18 11:46:16 i guess backupmenu is http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2010-October/004562.html Aug 18 11:46:27 ~bm is also ~backupmenu Aug 18 11:46:27 okay, DocScrutinizer Aug 18 11:46:29 think of ot as acronym in the vain o 'gimp' or 'wanker 2.1' Aug 18 11:46:46 Um... I think we need a better link there Aug 18 11:47:12 DocScrutinizer: that is what I am aiming for. Aug 18 11:47:20 ~backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 Aug 18 11:47:21 ...but backupmenu is already something else... Aug 18 11:47:24 taking the rootfs BM tarball Aug 18 11:47:37 ~forget backupmenu Aug 18 11:47:37 i forgot backupmenu, robbiethe1st Aug 18 11:47:39 ~backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 Aug 18 11:47:40 robbiethe1st: okay Aug 18 11:47:51 plus the kernel I want and sticking it in my OWN fiasco image Aug 18 11:47:55 ~bm Aug 18 11:47:55 methinks bm is bob mutch in chilliwack. Bermuda, or ~backupmenu Aug 18 11:48:13 ~bm is also ~backupmenu Aug 18 11:48:13 robbiethe1st: okay Aug 18 11:48:17 this combined with my OWN opt tarball covers everything Aug 18 11:48:20 ~bm Aug 18 11:48:21 bm is probably bob mutch in chilliwack. Bermuda, or ~backupmenu, or ~backupmenu Aug 18 11:48:37 kernel, rootfs&opt Aug 18 11:48:38 ~no, backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 Aug 18 11:48:50 infobot: no, backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 Aug 18 11:48:50 DocScrutinizer: i already had it that way Aug 18 11:49:32 infobot: no, bm is bob mutch in chilliwack. Bermuda, or ~backupmenu Aug 18 11:49:32 DocScrutinizer: okay Aug 18 11:50:16 wtf is bob mutch? Aug 18 11:50:36 infobot: no, bm is see backupmenu Aug 18 11:50:36 okay, DocScrutinizer Aug 18 11:50:43 ~bm Aug 18 11:50:43 hmm... backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 Aug 18 11:57:21 vi__: please join efforts with NIN101 and robbiethe1st (and mentalist traceur ?) to create this topmost important and useful set of tools/packages Aug 18 11:58:55 vi__: for example there still seems _no_ way yet to backup a kernel Aug 18 11:59:20 good point Aug 18 11:59:30 however, you are 1 of 3 people Aug 18 11:59:34 sure you can flash same kernel _again_ (if you actually know what's been the package that installed the one you use right now) Aug 18 11:59:40 1, you are running stock kernel Aug 18 11:59:52 2, you are running kernel form the repo Aug 18 12:00:00 3, you are running custom kernel Aug 18 12:02:53 Perhaps a way to 'figure' the users kernel is not to look at the kernel itself but to look at what the user has. Aug 18 12:02:55 vi__: I'm 1 of 3? err, not 7 of 9? ;-) Aug 18 12:03:06 heh Aug 18 12:03:17 Need some info. Aug 18 12:03:21 I didn't get that comment Aug 18 12:03:31 If I were to install that 2.6.28-10 kernel Aug 18 12:03:31 DocScrutinizer: I am still typing Aug 18 12:03:37 what functions will I be missing? Aug 18 12:04:00 I've been hearing about the ability to use some phone functions after getting that kernel to install. Aug 18 12:04:00 CodenameStrike: um what? Aug 18 12:04:06 Using N900 btw Aug 18 12:04:08 CodenameStrike: sorry, please elaborate Aug 18 12:04:44 answer=info in*understanding= Aug 18 12:04:50 IroN900:~# uname -a Aug 18 12:04:52 Linux IroN900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv7l GNU/Linux Aug 18 12:04:53 please wait Aug 18 12:05:02 I forgot the name of that package Aug 18 12:05:10 looking it up Aug 18 12:06:18 DocScrutinizer: first you check apt-list to see if they have installed any kernels Aug 18 12:06:29 DocScrutinizer: if not then they are either 1 or 3 Aug 18 12:06:56 DocScrutinizer: (unless they installed the kernel manually in which case it gets a whoile lot harder) Aug 18 12:07:19 yoh, doesn't matter. I don't want to find out what's the kernel I got, I simply want to vreate a backup of it that I can restore any time Aug 18 12:07:35 DocScrutinizer: wait, can't you just dd /dev/mtd0 to somthing? Aug 18 12:08:05 DocScrutinizer: yes, but if the problem is you cant read it from the device, you have to get it from elsewhere] Aug 18 12:08:06 vi__: NO! but you _can_ mtd_debug read /dev/mtd0 Aug 18 12:08:21 The Linux Kernel for Power User package Aug 18 12:08:26 I'm contemplating on installing it Aug 18 12:08:38 CodenameStrike: powerkernel is mostly safe Aug 18 12:08:39 however I'm also hearing that you can lose some functionalities doing so Aug 18 12:08:40 CodenameStrike: do you have -extras-development enabled? Aug 18 12:08:45 yes Aug 18 12:08:52 CodenameStrike: none known so far Aug 18 12:08:57 CodenameStrike: right that will get you version e7 Aug 18 12:09:07 e7? 47! Aug 18 12:09:12 which is fine Aug 18 12:09:27 So I might be reading old posts from maemo.org then Aug 18 12:09:34 you WILL have to uninstall then Re-install the fcamera drivers if you have them Aug 18 12:09:38 there may be flaws or bugs in PK, but no missing functionality Aug 18 12:09:43 CodenameStrike: quite possibly Aug 18 12:09:46 oh Aug 18 12:09:50 so basically Aug 18 12:09:56 this is the output of my terminal here http://pastebin.com/ndphvVVX, after pressing the enter key on the keyboard, i can't turn the phone on. also it does nothin anymore and a something is on the display of the phone that says: starting netcat for initial connection chech, but does nothin. if i write something on my phone and press enter it will be shown on the terminal windows in my pc Aug 18 12:09:57 what I'd do is Aug 18 12:10:04 im sorry for asking my question here Aug 18 12:10:06 uninstall and then reinstall the fcamera drivers? Aug 18 12:10:24 CodenameStrike: AFTER installing power kernel. Aug 18 12:10:32 CodenameStrike: if they fail to work Aug 18 12:10:37 oh Aug 18 12:10:50 CodenameStrike: are you ising apt or fapman? Aug 18 12:10:59 s/ising/using Aug 18 12:11:01 fapman. Aug 18 12:11:29 CodenameStrike: I always use apt, but whats the worst that could happen ay? Aug 18 12:11:42 CodenameStrike: just do a backup first Aug 18 12:11:56 CodenameStrike: with backupmenu Aug 18 12:11:56 Whoa Aug 18 12:12:07 libwv, libwmf Aug 18 12:12:17 gsfonts, defoma Aug 18 12:12:30 those packages are going to be removed. Aug 18 12:12:35 Are these OK or something Aug 18 12:12:44 CodenameStrike: while it is 99% likely to work. God klnows what half finished nitdroid crap multiboot mess you have lying around. Aug 18 12:12:51 vi__: fapman is kinda notorious to fail especially on powerkernel package installation Aug 18 12:12:56 nitdroid? Aug 18 12:13:27 DocScrutinizer: fair enough Aug 18 12:13:36 NEVER do any autoremove either Aug 18 12:13:37 CodenameStrike: you have your n900 infront of you? Aug 18 12:14:28 vi__: Yes Aug 18 12:14:30 :( Aug 18 12:14:52 punished_enough: chill the fuck out sadface. Aug 18 12:15:05 punished_enough: no one here really knows much about installing meego Aug 18 12:15:13 s for installing PK you either go HAM, or apt-get install > Aug 18 12:15:20 punished_enough: the best I can suggest is reflash EVERYTHING back to stock then try again Aug 18 12:15:37 CodenameStrike: you have rootsh and sudser installed? Aug 18 12:15:46 rootsh yes, but not sudser Aug 18 12:16:00 Well if there's a way I can overclock the n900 without having to install the powerkernel Aug 18 12:16:04 It'd be enough for me. Aug 18 12:16:34 CodenameStrike: have you installed sudo? Aug 18 12:16:37 uh Aug 18 12:16:49 sudo doesn't come with n900? Aug 18 12:16:55 because I got this by second hand Aug 18 12:17:01 sudser??? WTF? Aug 18 12:17:07 else I don't know how "sudo gainroot" worked. Aug 18 12:17:16 DocScrutinizer: I cannot remember the name of the program Aug 18 12:17:26 rootsh Aug 18 12:17:28 CodenameStrike: fair enough Aug 18 12:17:51 Oops Aug 18 12:18:03 CodenameStrike: If you have a second hand device I would HIGHLY recommend doing a complete reflash before getting into customising it for yourself Aug 18 12:18:09 CodenameStrike: anyhow... Aug 18 12:18:14 CodenameStrike: open xterm Aug 18 12:18:38 CodenameStrike: prepare for getting ignored completely when you ask "how do I overclock" - it's considered a terribly poor idea to OC for mere leetness Aug 18 12:18:47 CodenameStrike: type 'sudo gainroot' for root shell Aug 18 12:18:48 ~omap-oc Aug 18 12:18:49 it has been said that omap-oc is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05 read that!, or and this http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-03-11.log.html#t2011-03-11T03:04:11 Aug 18 12:19:03 DocScrutinizer: dont rain on his parade! Aug 18 12:19:39 CodenameStrike: have you opened xterm yet? Aug 18 12:20:00 vi__: for proper rootshell you type "root", not "sudo gainroot" Aug 18 12:20:29 gainroot doesn't set up root environment Aug 18 12:20:46 DocScrutinizer: I know, however I dont know what packages he has installed. If he can get a root shell from sudo gainroot then that will be enough for apt Aug 18 12:20:53 I.E. your $HOME $PATH and whatnot still is that of user Aug 18 12:21:05 DocScrutinizer: ouch Aug 18 12:21:20 DocScrutinizer: fortunatley I only use 'root' then Aug 18 12:22:11 to be utterly clear: gainroot==su root==su - Aug 18 12:23:53 DocScrutinizer: therefore (sudo gainroot)=(sudo su) Aug 18 12:23:59 DocScrutinizer: sudo su Aug 18 12:24:02 DocScrutinizer: dirty Aug 18 12:24:16 usually "root" (the script) comes with gainroot afaik Aug 18 12:24:23 CodenameStrike: are you away taking a shit? Aug 18 12:24:34 CodenameStrike: you want help with this thing or what? Aug 18 12:25:02 ~seen CodenameStrike Aug 18 12:25:04 codenamestrike is currently on #maemo (44m 42s). Has said a total of 34 messages. Is idling for 7m 13s, last said: 'Oops'. Aug 18 12:25:09 figure! Aug 18 12:25:21 DocScrutinizer: last words 'oops' Aug 18 12:25:26 ;-P Aug 18 12:25:44 i want my last words to be? Aug 18 12:25:47 i want my last words to be: Aug 18 12:26:01 * vi__ can I?? hold my beer and watch this! Aug 18 12:26:18 good choice! Aug 18 12:26:49 :-D Aug 18 12:27:03 my last word for a while: Aug 18 12:27:08 bbl o/ Aug 18 12:33:13 DocScrutinizer: wtf? Aug 18 12:43:00 Sorry Aug 18 12:43:04 I just took a dinner. Aug 18 12:52:59 javispedro: o/ Aug 18 12:53:05 hello Aug 18 12:59:02 When I follow these instructions, I get that the password for user cannot be changed: http://scratching.psybermonkey.net/2010/06/n900-how-to-ssh-into-n900-using-openssh.html Aug 18 12:59:16 sudo gainroot; passwd user Aug 18 13:01:53 use "root", not "sudo gainroot" - though that's probably unrelated to your problem that I can't reproduce Aug 18 13:03:02 * javispedro ponders if twitter deletes old stuff -- seemingly in my home the world was created by god around 1h ago because there's no activity before that. Aug 18 13:03:18 rly: I'm not inclined to proofread that psybermonkynet website, but I know during install of ssh-server pkg you are asked for setting a root password Aug 18 13:03:54 DocScrutinizer: I didn't get asked that. I just installed it via HAM. Aug 18 13:04:24 yes, and that shall rise a requester asking for setting root password IIRC Aug 18 13:04:40 DocScrutinizer: just "root" does not exist. Aug 18 13:04:54 o.O Aug 18 13:05:11 sorry, no idea what's up with your system Aug 18 13:05:26 DocScrutinizer: root is a part of rootsh, right? Aug 18 13:05:35 thought so, yes Aug 18 13:06:11 http://www.nokia.com/ Aug 18 13:06:26 xkr47: Wow! Aug 18 13:06:32 xkr47: Innovative web design. Aug 18 13:06:37 completely new Aug 18 13:06:49 Optimised for the mobile web. Aug 18 13:07:00 the html looks like someone accidentally removed 100 lines from the middle Aug 18 13:07:26 Or perhaps it is Anonymous wanting a new n900 successor? Aug 18 13:07:40 sell n950 and we'll stop! Aug 18 13:07:47 heh Aug 18 13:08:23 new design Aug 18 13:08:24 ? Aug 18 13:08:32 * javispedro fails to see anything Aug 18 13:09:11 Hi, I got an e-mail that I can promote my package. I'm on the package site, logged in, Status is "Promotion unlocked, waiting for maintainter to promote" ... but no promote button anywhere :( Aug 18 13:09:25 That is, for http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/qtquickcompat/0.1.0/ Aug 18 13:09:43 DocScrutinizer: I didn't have rootsh, but now I do. Aug 18 13:13:29 Oh, it seems the mail was just wrong. The package is already promoted. Aug 18 13:16:33 ~ping Aug 18 13:16:33 ~pong Aug 18 13:25:18 How can I set the ip address of the n900? Aug 18 13:26:30 rly: ifconfig wlan0 Aug 18 13:27:24 Or settings / internet connections / connections / / edit / N*next / advanced / ip addresses, for a per-connection fixed IP. (Or just have the other end DHCP it out.) Aug 18 13:31:16 fizzie: the problem is that I want to connect from some other device to this device and if the ip address changes every single time, I cannot do that reliably. Aug 18 13:32:08 Any idea what could be the reason for my N900 to show "no conversation", even after I send a text? Aug 18 13:32:29 In my case I just have the other end's DHCP server assign a known IP based on the N900's MAC, but admittedly that might not be applicable in many cases. Aug 18 13:33:18 fizzie: the other end is a laptop running Ubuntu. Aug 18 13:34:40 Well, if you *wanted* to do it with DHCP, that'd be something like host blah { fixed-address 1.2.3.4; hardware ethernet 00:11:22:33:44:55; } in dhcpd.conf. But I suppose configuring a fixed IP on the phone side is easier. Aug 18 13:35:46 rly: there is one basic info missing: how do you connect? Aug 18 13:36:13 DocScrutinizer: via the adhoc wifi provided by the laptop. Aug 18 13:36:27 USB? WLAN-adhoc? WLAN-infra? Aug 18 13:36:40 DocScrutinizer: WLAN-adhoc Aug 18 13:36:53 hah, nfc how adhoc negotiates IP addr Aug 18 13:37:53 prollay via that friggin MS protocol that just tries an ARP request on a random IP and picks that IP wehn nobody answers Aug 18 13:38:20 At least the Settings/Connections setup screen does have an Advanced button + fixed-IP settings for an adhoc connection too, that sounds like it'd be likely to work. Aug 18 13:38:47 I suggest you check your settings-internet-networks-advanced settings on N900 for that adhoc connection Aug 18 13:39:10 What should I use for my dns server then? The address of my laptop? Aug 18 13:39:55 Since the other network parts (of which the laptop is a part) are probably unreachable by the phone, right? Aug 18 13:39:57 possibly - or 8.8.8.8 ;-D Aug 18 13:40:16 That's the G one, I know. Aug 18 13:41:36 anyway my adhoc config here has 192.168.4.15 Aug 18 13:49:30 How can I see if there is still a simlock on it? Aug 18 13:53:27 that's actually not easy to answer. There are AT cmds to query simlock status but I think they are not supported by pnatd Aug 18 13:54:08 why is it that when I am browsing for a files through file manager I can see all kinds of stuff on my memory card (like my DCIM folder) but when adding an email attatchment it shows the memory card is empty? Aug 18 13:54:57 hmm Aug 18 13:55:40 i guess i have to go through file manager, bring up the context menu and share via email Aug 18 13:55:59 http://www.lingosbox.com/product_info.php?language=en¤cy=USD&products_id=2930 Aug 18 13:56:09 does this look like a god price for a replacement digitizer+screen? Aug 18 13:56:28 i dropped the corner of my laptop battery charger on my N900 and it broke right through the screen Aug 18 13:56:30 GunArm: quick check makes me think that's a capital bug in modest mail client Aug 18 13:56:56 so I need a replacement digitizer AND screen Aug 18 13:57:11 doc hmm ok Aug 18 13:57:13 because the digitizer has a nice big crack on it Aug 18 13:58:16 Sazpaimon: this is only the digitizer though Aug 18 13:58:27 prize looks good Aug 18 13:59:00 DocScrutinizer, you sure? Aug 18 13:59:04 Sazpaimon: you'll need an LCD as well, if that's also broken Aug 18 13:59:11 yes I'm sure Aug 18 13:59:12 oh yeah, you're right Aug 18 13:59:38 well in that case Aug 18 13:59:39 http://www.acceport.com/product_info.php?language=en¤cy=USD&products_id=1836 Aug 18 13:59:42 that looks like a better price Aug 18 14:00:26 indeed Aug 18 14:00:49 you'll gasp when you find out about the LCD though Aug 18 14:01:05 is it a crazy hard repalcement job? Aug 18 14:01:10 or expensive Aug 18 14:01:12 not really Aug 18 14:01:28 just friggin 100++ bucks for LCD iirc Aug 18 14:01:57 http://www.globaldirectparts.com/OEM-Nokia-N900-LCD-p/nkia3063750.htm google says this is $43 Aug 18 14:02:20 so you *might* be better off with a used broken N900 with a good scratchfree screen Aug 18 14:02:44 WTF? those parts got pretty affordable Aug 18 14:03:01 Ohhh OEM Aug 18 14:03:04 http://www.amazon.com/Screen-Display-Nokia-Mobile-Replacement/dp/B0055MQ408 Aug 18 14:03:23 whats wrong with OEM LCDs Aug 18 14:03:25 are they low quality? Aug 18 14:03:58 http://www.amazon.com/Neewer-Screen-Display-Nokia-Prying/dp/B005G5WZGG this isnt a nokia screen Aug 18 14:04:02 its 3rd party Aug 18 14:04:16 only $41 Aug 18 14:04:39 is it normal to be able to send mms' through fmms but not recieve them? Aug 18 14:08:23 LCD: http://www.acceport.com/genuine-original-nokia-n900-lcd-display-screen-panel-replacement-with-open-tool.html digitizer with frame: http://www.acceport.com/oem-nokia-n900-touch-screen-digitizer-free-open-tool.html Aug 18 14:09:11 GunArm: no - but ask frals Aug 18 14:10:24 Sazpaimon: pretty good deal at this shop. Prices are OK Aug 18 14:11:15 dunno about quality, as long as it states "Genuine Nokia" I'd just believe that until I unpack the package :-) Aug 18 14:11:45 2nd source mech components often are of poor precision Aug 18 14:14:13 2nd source electronic components are a bit of gambling: might fit 100%, might even be better than original, but also might not at all meet the specs of the original part. Esp for LCD you easily can see how OEM parts might "just work" and still are way below par wrt genuine part Aug 18 14:14:36 e.g lots of dead pixels, poor contrast, poor backlight, whatnot else Aug 18 14:15:11 or you get the improoved version Hitachi produced after they sold the crap to Nokia ;-P Aug 18 14:15:26 you never know Aug 18 14:23:29 [2011-08-18 11:12:54] vi__, oh fyi, pastebin of grepped words matching gpio :)) http://pastebin.com/MtZ7thq9 Aug 18 14:23:44 this in fact looks rather intriguing Aug 18 14:24:26 might make me think there are some cool lowlevel debugging tools hidden in ... err what? x-loader? Aug 18 14:26:24 nah, mtd0 actually is NOLO Aug 18 14:26:40 x-loader + NOLO? *cough* Aug 18 14:27:49 obviously it has to be x-loader and NOLO in one partition, as I couldn't tell where else any of both could live Aug 18 14:28:26 I guess NOLO has some hidden qualities Aug 18 14:28:41 probably only available via serial console Aug 18 14:28:53 or via usb-tty Aug 18 14:31:50 well there has to be a reason they keep on using NOLO Aug 18 14:31:55 I doubt it's because it's cheao Aug 18 14:31:57 *cheap Aug 18 14:32:13 probably it's rather well integrated with their diagnosis system Aug 18 14:32:56 >>Prompt keypress detected<< Aug 18 14:33:30 pretty standard stuff for boot loaders, isn't it :) Aug 18 14:33:58 and yes, that includes the 'strings in binary, but no obvious way to get to the functionality' part Aug 18 14:35:52 strings /dev/mtd0ro|grep -A 300 'Polling power key'|less Aug 18 14:36:21 blizzard Aug 18 14:36:23 internal Aug 18 14:36:25 :-P Aug 18 14:36:29 err Aug 18 14:36:38 tornado Aug 18 14:36:39 my n900 is acting weird: if you fully charge it after almost complete battery drain, and then remove charger, for a brief period of time it thinks that battery is empty and tries to shut itself down! Aug 18 14:36:40 blizzard Aug 18 14:37:27 YAY Aug 18 14:38:13 define "brief" Aug 18 14:39:03 ever notice how unpredicable charging is with non-nokia-sanctioned wall-to-usb cables? i have to plug-unplug between 8 and 15 times before it starts charging? Aug 18 14:39:27 (I suspect a defect cell with rather high Z, so removing charger makes it drop a lot of voltage) Aug 18 14:39:39 the nokia cable starts charging right away Aug 18 14:39:45 GunArm: nonsense Aug 18 14:40:05 DocScrutinizer: a second or two. sometimes it really shuts off (it apparently does not understand that battery was really charged and shows battery level that was straight before charging), sometimes it actually catches the fact that battery is fully charged now and works normally. Aug 18 14:41:00 docscrutinizer ...i used to have to do it every night before I found my nokia charger, my girlfriend would try to guess how many plugs it would take without going over, ie 9 Aug 18 14:41:18 same thing happens with non nokia cables plugged into a pc Aug 18 14:41:19 GunArm: for no name chargers you either have D+- short then it shall work as with Nokia CA-10, or you don't have D+- short then I wonder if 15 mating rounds would make the N900 start charging at anything better than 100mA Aug 18 14:42:05 GunArm, you believe in Jesus and that True Blood is secretly a hidden prophecy, right? Aug 18 14:42:05 i have two nokia chargers visually indistinguishable , one starts charging immediately, the second may do or may not Aug 18 14:42:15 before my usb port started dying I had similar symptoms, but then with all nokia stuff; some nokia cables would still work easily, some would be much more problematic Aug 18 14:42:36 GunArm: you got a defective USB plug or receptacle somewhere Aug 18 14:42:55 crashanddie, i believe in Jesus in the sense that he is a made up person Aug 18 14:44:05 docscrutinizer what is a D+-short? Aug 18 14:44:29 I've started lobbying my local government to make it a requirement to print "All characters in this book are fictional" in all Bibles. Aug 18 14:44:31 dang, with charging from wallcharger there's definitely noting beyond 4 contacts with wires attached, one minus, one plus, and two shorted to each other Aug 18 14:44:57 GunArm: D is the data pins on the cable Aug 18 14:45:00 GunArm: the data lines of USB, the middle 2 pins of a standard A USB Aug 18 14:45:07 oh i see Aug 18 14:45:21 so to charge we get ground, power and then short the two data pins Aug 18 14:45:29 yes Aug 18 14:45:32 interestink Aug 18 14:46:04 if the datapins dont short, it wont charge? Aug 18 14:46:24 maybe one of the data pin prongs on that wire was malformed Aug 18 14:46:32 sometimes when you mate sloppy, it doesn't detect the D+- short and comes up with "mass storage / PC mode" requester as it thinks it's a PC Aug 18 14:47:11 ah so no D+- sort and it should still react just not like it should to a wall Aug 18 14:47:29 it wouldnt react at all until that magical 13th mating Aug 18 14:47:59 its not really an issue now since i found my real cable, im just curiuos. I lived with this for 6 months every night Aug 18 14:48:31 when it was mated and didnt react, no amount of wiggling the cable would make it react, Aug 18 14:49:01 actually scratch my mass-storage comment - it doesn't react at all to a wallcharger with missing D+- short Aug 18 14:49:10 it had to be reseated until it reacted, and then no amount of wiggling the cable seemed to make it lose its charging connection, so I took that to mean it wasnt a connector problem Aug 18 14:49:27 at least when battery is already charged (won't discharge it now, just to test ;-D) Aug 18 14:49:35 yes! Aug 18 14:49:37 actually Aug 18 14:50:03 come to think of it, when it was TOTALLY drained and off, it would charge from the first mating. I forgot about that, as I never wanted to let it actually die Aug 18 14:50:21 so its probably a malformed data pin on the cable Aug 18 14:50:54 usually noname wallwart chargers miss the D+- short, as do almost all car charger plugs Aug 18 14:51:18 yep, same experience with the car charger Aug 18 14:51:32 so your 13 mate cycles may be a 'magic incantation' to trick N900 into seeing sth that's not there Aug 18 14:51:57 you *could* even call that a bug then Aug 18 14:52:07 lol that it ever worked you mean? Aug 18 14:52:12 yes Aug 18 14:53:00 it's a somewhat silly spec by Nokia, but N900 isn't supposed to work with chargers that don't have D+- short Aug 18 14:53:00 or maybe it had the d+- short, but one of the pins wasnt reliably connecting Aug 18 14:53:17 so 1/10 trys it would actually seat Aug 18 14:53:23 that's been my first idea Aug 18 14:53:23 but then wiggling would have affected it Aug 18 14:53:30 yes Aug 18 14:53:37 oh well Aug 18 14:53:42 thanks for clearing it up somewhat Aug 18 14:53:45 though after initial detection D+- is't tested anymore Aug 18 14:54:01 oh that explains why it wouldnt lose it Aug 18 14:54:13 are you a nokia engineer? Aug 18 14:54:20 ~ DocScrutinizer Aug 18 14:54:21 you are probably jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko Aug 18 14:54:47 is it really still to the point to cite OpenMoko? Aug 18 14:55:14 hehe, believe it or not, I still take pide in it Aug 18 14:55:18 cool Aug 18 14:55:23 very much pide I'm sure. Aug 18 14:55:25 why? is it an old project? Aug 18 14:55:31 yes Aug 18 14:55:41 a dead one as well Aug 18 14:55:43 mostly Aug 18 14:55:48 what do you think about open source phones now? Aug 18 14:56:07 i know thats a broad question... Aug 18 14:56:09 and a notorious poor hw one, though that's not my fault but my fortune Aug 18 14:56:25 I joined to fix a few things Aug 18 14:56:35 Well, if I remember right, the stupid phone had not even EGPRS, ... Aug 18 14:56:41 nope Aug 18 14:56:46 Let's check the latest news on openmoko... Android, Android, Debian, QtMoko that now has the ability to connect to wifi more than once every reboot w00p w00p! Aug 18 14:56:46 after my experience with the n900, i have mixed feelings about open source phones Aug 18 14:57:06 N900 hw is all but open Aug 18 14:57:07 GunArm, how so? Aug 18 14:57:23 DocScrutinizer, it's a shame though, for me OpenMoko was an amazing project, diseased by a stupid lead team. Aug 18 14:57:31 Actually, n900 is a mixed batch quality-wise anyway, ... Aug 18 14:57:51 I bought two full on dev kits of the openmoko Aug 18 14:57:59 crashanddie: indeed Aug 18 14:58:01 after 3 months and still no news of delivery, I asked for my money back Aug 18 14:58:10 Took another 2 months before I got it, but at least I got it back. Aug 18 14:58:35 when I describe my phone to people, because no one has ever heard of the n900 or its platform, i tell them that its a full linux kernel, that was unsuccessful because the apps are totally free, you download them like softoware out of an ubuntu repo, and the problem is that theres no commercial drive for developers to make them work well or make very many of them Aug 18 14:58:49 the lack of commercial development incentive is a killer Aug 18 14:58:49 crashanddie: duh what? OM never ever accepted prepayment Aug 18 14:58:58 DocScrutinizer, they did by check! Aug 18 14:59:05 hmm Aug 18 14:59:09 strange Aug 18 14:59:30 Hey, I was just getting into adulthood, getting my checks back, even though never cashed, was a very big deal to me. Aug 18 15:00:04 GunArm: I'm actually SOOO happy about that Aug 18 15:00:17 what do you mean Aug 18 15:00:22 GunArm: unbearable to have 3176 fart apps for maemo Aug 18 15:00:29 thats true Aug 18 15:00:49 I think we got some 1000 apps in repos for fremantle Aug 18 15:00:56 but with the fart apps and "the hangover" sound boards, you also get useful apps that have gone through full dev cycle and QA Aug 18 15:00:58 not all of them are great Aug 18 15:01:07 the n900 has such sweet hardware Aug 18 15:01:13 but I'm actually not missing any 'commercial drive' Aug 18 15:01:13 but lack of the ability to use half of it Aug 18 15:01:24 The N900 has never been plagued by the lack of software, nor the fact that the software was free. Aug 18 15:01:31 That is seriously, the least problem of the N900. Aug 18 15:01:36 i seriously disagree Aug 18 15:01:43 ive been using this phone for 2 years Aug 18 15:02:07 and i feel like every app or software is developed JUST enough to show your friend "hey look how cool this is" but not enough to actually use Aug 18 15:02:18 i was NEVER able to get irreco to work Aug 18 15:02:26 Yes, and that has nothing to with monetisation. Aug 18 15:02:29 just works fine here Aug 18 15:02:35 (same here) Aug 18 15:02:41 yeah, bad example Aug 18 15:02:45 Because nothing ever stopped devs from implementing licensing inside the apps themselves. Aug 18 15:02:50 modulo the weak IR LED Aug 18 15:03:09 crashanddie: indeed Aug 18 15:03:11 What fucked Maemo up is the amount of choices to make when you wanted to dev for it. Aug 18 15:03:24 A crooked development environment (scratchbox), and TOO MANY CHOICES. Aug 18 15:03:26 * javispedro disagrees Aug 18 15:03:35 People come here, and asked "How do I develop for Maemo?" Aug 18 15:03:36 Af'noon all Aug 18 15:03:38 there's been sygic and a lot of people were willing to spend money on it Aug 18 15:03:38 none of the choices worked Aug 18 15:03:52 On Android, iPhone, you get one development environment, simulator, whatnot. Aug 18 15:03:58 same for angry birds level packs Aug 18 15:04:00 crashanddie: if you have a great "favoured" choice for newbies all is well, the number doesn't matter at all. Aug 18 15:04:05 One language, mainly, with examples, and bam, you're going. Aug 18 15:04:08 hi Jaffa Aug 18 15:04:20 But people joining this channel, over the years, asking "How should I dev?" Aug 18 15:04:26 And a flamewar ensued Aug 18 15:04:27 but we had Gtk+ -- unteachable to noobs, Qt -- half working, QML -- never worked. Aug 18 15:04:34 "C++ W00T GTK+ w00t" Aug 18 15:04:58 Some autistic devs screaming "Nooo, do everything in bash command line" Aug 18 15:05:17 Lastly, some were hitting at Qt, which didn't work if a Troll's life depended on it Aug 18 15:05:24 lol for flamewar - so true Aug 18 15:05:24 Other were telling you to use C. Aug 18 15:05:50 5 minutes later, the newbie asking for help would go away with a "/quit wtf fuck this, nerds" Aug 18 15:06:10 and the community, it's geeky community everyone loved so much Aug 18 15:06:15 is the only thing that drove Maemo into the wall. Aug 18 15:06:20 and finally luke-jr jumped in and explained to all of us Qt isn't a toolkit but a language Aug 18 15:06:25 for me with irreco its not just the hardware, the implementation of the software is TOO customizable, you have to find all the codes and then build the remote one button at a time, its so unintutive I couldnt even ever make it work with youtube tutorials, thats only one program but theres no alternatives, which is the sortof almost socialist problem with open source in general, a single community built solution without competition Aug 18 15:07:01 the only game that was ever worth playing that doesnt crash when you try to run it (like 50% of them) is numptyphysics Aug 18 15:07:06 Because "free as in beer" is only good when the system is ready to roll. You need a framework to build something, and that is something that Maemo has never been able to offer. It gave you a dozen tools to build your own framework. Aug 18 15:07:50 I mean, fuck me, one of the greatest tools to come out of Maemo is lcuk's liqbase, and he wrote everything from scratch, and it took him what, 15 years of thinking before he got his concept right. Aug 18 15:07:55 games are important on phones, more than even on computers for me, and open source games typically just dont get the dev time Aug 18 15:08:50 n900fly is a good game tho ;) Aug 18 15:09:00 the problem is that the current situation is not really improved much. Aug 18 15:09:16 we now have Qt that doesn't work, QML that works somethat, and MTF that works but is unteachable. Aug 18 15:09:32 GunArm: there've been several IR-controls tailored to target exactly one appliance. Too bad none of them met your needs Aug 18 15:09:59 GunArm, open source android games: andoku, asqare, caverns of fire, frozen bubble, hot death, knave arthur's sword, lexic, gymkhana, nethack, newton's cradle, opensudoku, wordsearch, replica island, robotfindskitten, netwalk, web wars, sokoban, etc Aug 18 15:10:25 GunArm: and in IRreco there's a huge online database with predefined control skins, if that doesn't have anything for you - well what can I say? Aug 18 15:11:30 I admit that online DB isn't exactly up to date and QA-cleaned in any way Aug 18 15:11:33 crashanddie, my opnion is that android has enough well developed commercial apps to make the phone ubiquitous enough to allow good opensource stuff on the side, but with the n900... maybe thats wrong because theres the ovi store, but it just never got the market penetration to get serious dev attention Aug 18 15:12:05 * javispedro had hoped they'd settle on Qt, which is at least sanely designed. In fact, that's what I thought they were going to do and why I thought that despite being a Gtk+ fan the Qt move was a good idea. Aug 18 15:12:18 but however, first came MTF, and I died a little. Then QML. Aug 18 15:12:21 it got dev attention, it didn't get market droids attention Aug 18 15:12:31 docscrutinizer i always heard about the skins and remote templates and stuff but I am a computer engineer and i could never figure it out in an hour of sitting Aug 18 15:13:14 GunArm: if your remote is not common enough that it did not have a template, well, sorry. Aug 18 15:13:33 on a commercial app without such heavy customization that would usually mean you don't get to use the remote at all or you get a plain skin that doesn't match the remote at all. Aug 18 15:14:15 dont get me wrong, i really like my n900, and am generally all about open source Aug 18 15:14:23 note thought that I do think that having IRTX without IRRX is the stupidest idea of all time Aug 18 15:14:39 and I back then predicted this would mean any remote app would be mostly useless without learning functionality. Aug 18 15:14:45 HEHEHE Aug 18 15:14:51 * javispedro was a OmniRemote fan. Aug 18 15:15:15 javispedro, i wondered about that Aug 18 15:16:00 the wimpy IR LED is useless anyway Aug 18 15:16:03 crashanddie, why thank you :) Aug 18 15:18:24 crashanddie: (liqbase) and it's a pity he doesn't promote it in any way whatsoever Aug 18 15:18:36 so it's mostly unknown, even to me Aug 18 15:18:42 he doesn't ? =) Aug 18 15:19:01 well, not really, not for the thing it basically is Aug 18 15:19:17 I what I gather it basically is Aug 18 15:20:10 first thing I've seen of liq was liqtorch and I thught W*T*F!?!!?! 10MB for a white LCD - now how stupid is THIS liq thing?? Aug 18 15:21:03 Then again, bash on a brand new N900 takes 22MB so... Aug 18 15:21:45 opensource dev is based on individuals whims and hobbies, and if a device is completely dependant on that, when there arent even very many people in that environment yet to have those whims, youre destined for problems Aug 18 15:21:47 doesn't matter - I created a link on desktop to http://about:blank and loughed my ass off Aug 18 15:22:02 I leant about what liq actually is only way later Aug 18 15:23:01 GunArm, are you an idiot? Because sometimes you sound really OK, and then at other completely thick. Aug 18 15:23:02 learnt* Aug 18 15:23:12 So either you're a troll, or you're really just talking out of your arse. Aug 18 15:23:19 im not trolling honestly Aug 18 15:23:35 Debian? RedHat? LINUX?? How are those destined for problems? Aug 18 15:23:41 well that's assertion has been proven false numerous times Aug 18 15:23:42 is the first thing a TROLL would say! Aug 18 15:23:43 lol, crashy at his best Aug 18 15:23:51 And they were based on individual whims and hobbies! Aug 18 15:24:12 crashanddie++ Aug 18 15:24:16 its ok I see how i sound like a troll, it sounds like im complaining about maemo in a maemo channel but im just curious how you guys see this issue regarding open source phones Aug 18 15:24:27 the fact is. Aug 18 15:24:30 this is not an open source phone. Aug 18 15:24:34 Sure, RedHat soon became an Inc, but it doesn't take away the fact that it all started because someone, at some point, thought, "fuck this, nothing is answering my problems, I'm going to do this myself". Aug 18 15:24:34 so the point is rather moot. Aug 18 15:25:14 regarding linux, it works because the platform is so big that it already has so many developers "DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS", but how many decades did it take linux to become usable be the avarage person (let alone attractive) Aug 18 15:25:22 big = common Aug 18 15:25:28 * DocScrutinizer has the strange feeling like this was a week full of Fridays Aug 18 15:25:30 GunArm: less than what it took for MS's OS! Aug 18 15:25:34 Erhm... Less than 5-6 years? Aug 18 15:26:16 I started using Linux when I was 8. That's 17 years ago. Aug 18 15:26:29 youngster ;-P Aug 18 15:26:30 im really not against open source software, im just saying, there are pros and cons to any model, even blessed open source has some cons, which sounds like heresy in some circles Aug 18 15:26:45 No, it doesn't. Aug 18 15:26:53 But generalising with stupid arguments is heresy to any sane mind. Aug 18 15:27:29 I wish there were computers or even digital components available to mere mortals when I was 8 Aug 18 15:27:33 Yes, some open source projects SUCK, because little 16yo genius dev thinks he's the bee's knees, when in fact, he doesn't understand diddly squat about project management, and how to keep his devs in check. Aug 18 15:27:54 you might have been a linux tinkerer in 1995 , but linux hasnt exploded toward the mainstream since ubuntu like 4 years ago Aug 18 15:28:01 hell when I was 8 there was B&W TV Aug 18 15:28:04 oh bollocks GunArm. Aug 18 15:28:13 But when people with real-life experience, and honest to god dedication come to the table, open source projects fly. Aug 18 15:28:22 i dont disagree with that Aug 18 15:28:25 DocScrutinizer: im sure there was the babbage steel banded differance engine available in your youth. Aug 18 15:28:26 im totally with you Aug 18 15:28:37 GunArm, call your nearest local ISP, ask them when they started using Linux as their main server operating system? Aug 18 15:28:52 I'll bet you one arm and a leg, it's something circa 1997. Aug 18 15:29:04 the issue tho is how big is the crowd currently living in the environment, from which a small fraction are good devs Aug 18 15:29:06 vi__: sure, alas I already was severely into electronics at that age Aug 18 15:29:23 i dont doubt that, but servers at an ISP are not the same as wide acceptance from the general public, like phones Aug 18 15:29:40 those ISPs had to call in consultants to set up those servers Aug 18 15:29:41 vi__: and sure I had other smart mechanical calculator machines to play with :-) Aug 18 15:29:53 DocScrutinizer: sliderule? Aug 18 15:29:54 vi__, don't forget that DocScrutinizer came to this planet before the TV was common in households. He was nearly 18 when he saw Elisabeth get married. Aug 18 15:30:14 * DocScrutinizer giggles Aug 18 15:30:36 vi__: oh yeah that sliderule also was a smart tool Aug 18 15:31:23 GunArm, so you're actually arguing that an OS that was designed to match big massive corporation-powered server OS's wasn't on-par with desktop OS's? Aug 18 15:31:34 I heard DocScrutinizer even ranted at turing for suggesting somthing noobish once. Aug 18 15:31:40 actually I think I bought my first electronic calculator when I was 12, for some 80 bucks Aug 18 15:31:52 of course it wasnt called noobish back then Aug 18 15:32:16 more terminalogical inexactitude Aug 18 15:32:29 geeze Aug 18 15:32:37 did it even have a square root function? Aug 18 15:34:01 no, of course not Aug 18 15:34:13 + - * / Aug 18 15:34:20 and = Aug 18 15:34:26 ;-P Aug 18 15:34:33 no . ? Aug 18 15:34:37 integers only? Aug 18 15:35:14 ~mft Aug 18 15:35:14 hmm... mft is Marriage and Family Therapy Aug 18 15:35:30 ~CDC Aug 18 15:35:30 i guess cdc is the cult of the dead cow - see http://www.cdc.org Aug 18 15:35:35 o0 Aug 18 15:35:50 actually sqrt() was the first "program" I ran on a digital device, by executing the program steps of an iterative algo manually Aug 18 15:35:52 sorry for interjecting ;-) Aug 18 15:35:53 infobot's finally gone crazy Aug 18 15:36:02 ~mtf Aug 18 15:36:02 A Microsoft Tape Format reader. URL: ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/backup/mtf-0.1.src.tgz Aug 18 15:36:08 grr Aug 18 15:36:12 on THAT digital device Aug 18 15:36:28 DocScrutinizer: my first computer was a paper one :/ Aug 18 15:36:37 it was one of the suggested honours (4th year) projects on my university course Aug 18 15:36:49 ~liqbase Aug 18 15:36:59 to write a square root function for implementation on FPGA Aug 18 15:36:59 crashanddie, not at all, 'on-par' requires a value system for evaluation, your value system is obviously kernel reliability etc which is good for servers, im talking about a MARKETING model to make a device ubiquitous to the mass public, for MASS ADOPTION by the dumb general public, they need userfriendlyness even if it crashes all the time, linux has always been more reliable that other OS, but recent distros in the like of ubuntu have made it so your Aug 18 15:37:00 grandma can use it, your grandma has to be able to use a phone to penetrate the market Aug 18 15:37:46 Actually, my grandma is dead you insensitive clod. Aug 18 15:37:48 open source dev snowballs as more librariers are made, but it starts slower when half of them dont exist yet, and a device has a short lifecycle compared to the desktop PC platform Aug 18 15:38:04 1 year later I controlled the keys by relais, and had feedback to the program execution unit by decoding minus sign out of the LED multiplex signal Aug 18 15:38:07 I of course shunned this rather 'trival' problem and wrote an SHA-1 core in VHDL Aug 18 15:38:31 relais=relays Aug 18 15:38:37 GunArm: IMO the problem of n900 is not open source, but that Nokia dumped the platform almost as soon as it was released. n9 is abandoned even before it's releaseed Aug 18 15:38:56 DocScrutinizer: o0 Aug 18 15:39:12 I felt seriously sick when Maemo was cancelled Aug 18 15:39:54 i never even saw the n900 for sale honestly Aug 18 15:40:07 i got mine as a promo model from a nokia employee Aug 18 15:40:57 GunArm, hint, the n900 is quite useable by elder people. OTOH, when you start to add repositories, it starts to become a nice poweruser tool ;) Aug 18 15:41:26 as a result, there's not much of monetary incentives, and worse, there's not much of opensource merits to get either Aug 18 15:41:31 GunArm, well, does not matter, Nokia decided to commit suicide for some shortterm cash, ... Aug 18 15:41:55 yeah, it does what it needs to do very well out of the box Aug 18 15:42:24 GunArm, at least their MS decision has put them on lists titled "brands that you can expect to fail in 2012" ;) Aug 18 15:42:36 ms? Aug 18 15:42:36 It's a shame though Aug 18 15:42:41 GunArm, microsoft? Aug 18 15:42:49 what microsoft decision? Aug 18 15:42:53 oh come on Aug 18 15:42:53 GunArm, Windows Mobile Aug 18 15:42:56 go back to your cave. Aug 18 15:43:03 ooohh to use microsoft on their devices Aug 18 15:43:20 GunArm, Nokia decided to drop it's own system development and become just yet another peddler of Windows phones ;) Aug 18 15:43:47 right right, I thought you meant microsoft was involved with maemo Aug 18 15:44:09 GunArm, elop, the new Nokia CEO, is an ex-Microsoft exec. Just after he got to power, they announced they would fulfil their promise to have at least one MeeGo handset (the N9), but that there would never be another phone using MeeGo (roughly). All other phones would use WP7. Aug 18 15:44:14 HAH ohnoes Aug 18 15:44:23 yacc, its own. Aug 18 15:44:42 its == possessive; it's == it is. Aug 18 15:44:58 "The dog wags its tail" Aug 18 15:45:02 "It's a disgrace" Aug 18 15:45:20 Btw, Nokia started behaving nicely Microsoftish immediately, AFAIK, Intel who was their major Meego partner was informed about Nokia's withdrawal from Meego through the press ;) Aug 18 15:45:33 I wonder how to teach infobot to do the crashanddie Aug 18 15:45:40 crashanddie: Always start sentences with a capital. Aug 18 15:46:15 I did exactly that, AFAICT Aug 18 15:46:26 Really, serious and nice behaviour :) Aug 18 15:46:32 please gentlemen! Aug 18 15:46:46 It's kind like ending a marriage via a text message ;) Aug 18 15:47:00 thats legal under muslim sharia law! Aug 18 15:47:18 i'M nOT gOING tO wRITE cAPITALS aT bEGINNING oF sENTENCES Aug 18 15:47:33 yacc: is not it legal in some Arabian country? Aug 18 15:47:34 as long as the message is clear and cannot be misinterpreted Aug 18 15:47:41 GunArm, it's not about legal, it's about behaviour :) Aug 18 15:47:50 probably lol, i just read that on a think about sharia Aug 18 15:47:53 thing Aug 18 15:48:33 but isnt microsoft super bed buddies with intel? Aug 18 15:48:52 not recently ;-D Aug 18 15:48:58 yacc, is it now? I thought it required three steps? Public announcement, reconciliation, two witnesses validate the waiting period? Aug 18 15:49:06 sorry, that was for GunArm. Aug 18 15:49:42 crashanddie the sharia thing? Aug 18 15:49:42 Intel hates MS these days Aug 18 15:49:56 probably the entire reasoning for Meego's existence. Aug 18 15:50:00 s/for/behind Aug 18 15:50:08 crashanddie i have no idea, its random trivia i have no depth of understanding Aug 18 15:50:12 * DocScrutinizer declares sharia a ban'able subject on this channel Aug 18 15:50:23 lol Aug 18 15:50:47 dunno if crashanddie would revert that Aug 18 15:51:04 oh, right, I'm an op here. Aug 18 15:51:07 Err Aug 18 15:51:26 Well, banning subjects is about as smart as banning fruit. Aug 18 15:51:40 or banning the people who eat the fruit Aug 18 15:51:40 "You're not allowed to have banana here!" "Oh, but I was told this was an orange!" Aug 18 15:51:44 from the garden of eden Aug 18 15:52:06 friday, definitely Aug 18 15:52:09 knew it Aug 18 15:52:09 can we ban talking snakes? Aug 18 15:52:13 we could ban weapons, though. Aug 18 15:52:16 * javispedro thinks this conversation isn't going anywhere Aug 18 15:52:25 javispedro, it's GOING STRAIGHT TO THE LOGS! Aug 18 15:52:32 touché. Aug 18 15:52:57 terrible thought Aug 18 15:53:36 maybe we can disable logs by a cronjob on Fryday afternoon - but waut, it's not Friday today, is it? Aug 18 15:53:44 no Aug 18 15:53:45 s/waut/wait/ Aug 18 15:53:45 DocScrutinizer meant: maybe we can disable logs by a cronjob on Fryday afternoon - but wait, it's not Friday today, is it? Aug 18 15:53:47 Fryday? Aug 18 15:53:53 meh Aug 18 15:53:56 Is that like the day where we celebrate Stephen Fry? Aug 18 15:54:09 With useless, yet Quite Interesting trivia? Aug 18 15:54:29 no, Fry of Futurama ;-P Aug 18 15:54:36 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Aug 18 15:54:41 NOT A GINGER Aug 18 15:55:39 * DocScrutinizer ponders finally getting the planned afk-time sheduled for - like - 4h ago Aug 18 15:55:48 hah i dont think hes supposed to be ginger Aug 18 15:55:56 hes based on james dean from rebel without a cause Aug 18 15:56:16 red jacket, white shirt and jeans + pompador... Aug 18 15:58:31 so i purchased a BRAND NEW N900 Aug 18 15:58:50 £220 Aug 18 15:59:05 now for sth completely OffTopic: I noticed similar misbehaviour of indicator LED as attributed to sun/temp least few days here, when I tested some patterns in LED pattern editor. Reboot fixed it Aug 18 15:59:44 hmm friday is based on the germanic love goddess Aug 18 15:59:56 Fraya Aug 18 16:00:27 DocScrutinizer: woo, wikipedia. Aug 18 16:00:34 nah! Aug 18 16:01:12 I *am* a germaniac Aug 18 16:01:13 is it possible to merge Mydocs and /opt? Aug 18 16:01:36 vi__: why? how? Aug 18 16:01:43 obviously you'll lose Mass storage mode. Aug 18 16:01:44 MyDocs is VFAT Aug 18 16:02:05 Maemo should use LVM like Palm ;) Aug 18 16:02:15 *cough* Aug 18 16:02:30 gimme more abstraction levels! MOAR!! Aug 18 16:02:30 convert mydocs to ext3 Aug 18 16:02:46 * javispedro puts CS glasses and looks at DocScrutinizer Aug 18 16:04:19 * DocScrutinizer ponders idly looking into LED pattern editor's source to investigate what nasty things this does when you hit the "test" button Aug 18 16:05:02 prolly just access LP5523 sysnodes directly, not at all caring about concurrent access from mce Aug 18 16:05:27 I bet... Aug 18 16:05:38 anybody joining the bet? Aug 18 16:05:50 naaah you're cheating Aug 18 16:06:30 I bet it uses MCE. Aug 18 16:06:42 not for test though Aug 18 16:06:47 why not Aug 18 16:07:03 it'll probably be around 90% of the code of such an application to implement test by banging the sysnodes directly. Aug 18 16:07:04 or I missed sth about how mce can get convinced to read in a changed mce.ini Aug 18 16:07:49 javispedro: not really as patterns in mce.ini are 1:1 feedable to engine pattern sysnodes Aug 18 16:09:54 ah. Aug 18 18:04:42 hah Aug 18 18:05:22 rumour is out HP might spin off palm again, along with its pc business =) Aug 18 18:07:25 javispedro, heh Aug 18 18:08:11 seemingly my favourite backup platform is going to enjoy something similar to our own elopcalypse ... Aug 18 18:11:29 javispedro, that's one giant waste of money. Aug 18 18:11:33 What were they thinking? Aug 18 18:13:40 seems that they are going to buy a software company and call it a day with devices Aug 18 18:14:22 the rumor says it'll be announced today, so we'll know soon. Aug 18 18:40:06 @msg GAN900 Yay, *finally* got a response on #jaffa4tsg. Short version: thanks, but no thanks. Slightly longer version: we don't think the TSG is anything but an insurance policy any more. Aug 18 18:40:35 Damned N950 keyboard. s/@/\// Aug 18 18:56:31 Jaffa: fear from making that typo makes me usually not use /msg ;) Aug 18 19:06:44 hi, does the mamemo kenrel uses an initrd somewhere? Aug 18 19:07:17 or an initramfs Aug 18 19:08:19 no Aug 18 19:09:49 it mounts the rootfs directly without the help of an initrd or something, executes the script /sbin/preinit which does "something" and finally runs init. Aug 18 19:12:06 hi Aug 18 19:12:47 tried to connect my n900 through car charger, but it does not charge. Has anyone a clue about this? Aug 18 19:13:34 when using the same usb cable (but without the car plug adapter) on my laptop, the phone charges just fine Aug 18 19:13:42 ok Aug 18 19:13:53 hmmmm Aug 18 19:14:14 *ATGS seem passed correctly with kexecboot Aug 18 19:14:15 same car adapter, with mini usb cable worked fine with my former phone... Aug 18 19:14:29 *no initramfs/initrd Aug 18 19:14:56 onen|openBmap: *IIRC* this is an known issue, but I am not familiar with the details. Aug 18 19:15:32 NIN101: I have been thinking that the n900 might be peeky about current/voltage it detects... Aug 18 19:15:47 NIN101: less tolerance than my former phone Aug 18 19:15:53 onen|openBmap: it's because of USB Aug 18 19:16:00 what's your car charger? Aug 18 19:16:07 hi gnutoo Aug 18 19:16:14 hi Aug 18 19:17:17 basically if it's not a n900 official charger you have that: Aug 18 19:17:22 well not sure, what details do you need? it is a kind of adapter that plug into a slot, which used to be designed for cigarette lightner. The other side regular usb, as on a computer Aug 18 19:17:44 to get more than 100 mA there is the need of a negotiation between the phone and the usb charger Aug 18 19:17:54 which doesn't happen Aug 18 19:18:03 because it's a dumb charger Aug 18 19:18:16 so the old phone may consume less than 100mA Aug 18 19:18:24 and the n900 may consume more..... Aug 18 19:19:05 gnutoo: well I am quite impressed by myself, as my intuition was right! (n900 being to picky (based on stories about the battery charging handling which is weird on n900 for what I have understood)) Aug 18 19:19:32 * onen|openBmap shines of self satisfaction Aug 18 19:19:47 gnutoo: I understand. thanks for the explaination Aug 18 19:19:56 gnutoo: you basically saved my quite some time ;-) Aug 18 19:20:03 battery charging is weired, that's true however n900 is not the only phone that consume more than 100mA Aug 18 19:20:12 battery charging is done in userspace Aug 18 19:20:29 I don't remember the exact details on how the charger chip works Aug 18 19:20:33 do you know if adapter exists for car? I guess so, right? Aug 18 19:21:03 but I think it's B Aug 18 19:21:08 oops Aug 18 19:21:27 but I think it's BME who trigger the charge that is actually done by the i2c charging chip Aug 18 19:21:42 like a watchdog Aug 18 19:22:00 I must re-read the free charging scripts.... Aug 18 19:22:47 basically or you negociate 500mA, you get 100mAm however.... Aug 18 19:22:49 so I have to replace my car adapter, to something able to deliver more than 100mA. Does this exist? Aug 18 19:23:25 there is a third way, you add a resistor in the charger like an official car charger and detect that Aug 18 19:23:37 look at official n900 chargers if that exist Aug 18 19:23:49 else there is an easy eay Aug 18 19:23:51 *way Aug 18 19:24:06 get a 12V->220v AC adapter Aug 18 19:24:23 and put your n900 stock charger in the AC adapter plug Aug 18 19:24:39 however that can be noisy as there is often a fan Aug 18 19:25:00 IIRC the wall charger of n900 delivers 1200mA, while the one of my former phone delivers 1000mA. All the pieces of the puzzle fits ;-) Aug 18 19:25:20 yes there is a resistor or something like that in the charger Aug 18 19:25:36 it's detected by the phone Aug 18 19:25:41 I think it's in the kenrel Aug 18 19:25:57 so it know it can take more than 100mA Aug 18 19:26:04 and it does Aug 18 19:26:46 and about the universal charger for mobile phone which has been decided (at least in Europe for what I know), will it work with n900? Aug 18 19:27:16 hmmm I don't know that part enough.... Aug 18 19:27:45 maybe there is an universal resistor value, no idea.... Aug 18 19:27:57 maybe wikipedia has the answer at the USB article tough Aug 18 19:28:05 look at micro-usb Aug 18 19:29:18 I am currently reading it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_External_Power_Supply Aug 18 19:31:14 ok Aug 18 19:31:22 my internet is slow as hell..... Aug 18 19:31:45 so charging a webpage may fail because of timeout Aug 18 19:34:53 Jaffa, special. Aug 18 19:40:39 n900? Aug 18 19:40:54 b4byh4ck: yes please Aug 18 19:41:02 Should I e-mail you my address? Aug 18 19:41:37 am new here Aug 18 19:41:54 np, just seemed like the funniest answer :) Aug 18 19:42:00 What's your actual question? Aug 18 19:43:32 ahaha,i was so surprised when i saw the maemo room,,,so i asked to confirm that it deals with n900 too Aug 18 19:44:14 Yup Aug 18 19:44:30 nice Aug 18 19:46:59 hmmm Aug 18 19:47:04 I kexec the power kenrel Aug 18 19:47:29 gnutoo: ok I found a PDF where details are explained of what has been chosen by EU. Aug 18 19:47:30 and then, as user reported it, I've some issues such as the camera not working: Aug 18 19:47:47 the camera slider isn't detected well: Aug 18 19:47:55 gnutoo: and I might have found the info: Aug 18 19:47:59 you havo try 3 times to get it work Aug 18 19:48:00 ok Aug 18 19:48:02 gnutoo: As per: USB Battery Charging Specification, Revision 1.1 (BC 1.1), Section 4.1 Aug 18 19:48:02 Charging Port. EPS shall meet the USB-IF Charging Port Test Requirements for a Aug 18 19:48:02 Dedicated Charging Port. Top level requirements listed below: Aug 18 19:48:41 The EPS shall short the D+ and D- lines with a resistance not greater Aug 18 19:48:41 than 200 ohms. Aug 18 19:48:50 than 200 ohms. Aug 18 19:48:50 The resistance between the D+ or D- lines of the EPS and either Vbus Aug 18 19:48:50 or Gnd shall be greater than 2 MOhms. Aug 18 19:48:59 The capacitance between the D+ or D- lines of the EPS and either Aug 18 19:48:59 Vbus or Gnd shall be less than 1nF. Aug 18 19:50:10 gnutoo: so this looks like what you were talking, a resistance which allows detection of the charger Aug 18 19:50:35 gnutoo: anyway, we'll see. Thanks again for your help. Aug 18 19:51:43 ok Aug 18 19:52:27 onen|openBmap: !!!! :-D Aug 18 19:52:35 onen|openBmap: looong time no see Aug 18 19:52:40 DocScrutinizer: what's up doc? Aug 18 19:52:44 DocScrutinizer: ;-) Aug 18 19:52:51 DocScrutinizer: Halli Hallo! Aug 18 19:52:51 indeed.... Aug 18 19:53:37 DocScrutinizer: is the talk about details of usb charging of n900 which triggered detection of the conversation? You are quite versed in this topic IIRC? ;-) Aug 18 19:54:02 DocScrutinizer: well finally got a n900 Aug 18 19:54:07 DocScrutinizer: and discovering it Aug 18 19:54:16 DocScrutinizer: whith good, and less good surprises ;-) Aug 18 19:54:37 no. and yes. and: it's dirt simple: short D+ with D- Aug 18 19:54:54 ok Aug 18 19:55:06 DocScrutinizer: spent the whole evening of yesterday trying to find a working task or list manager. but either it does not provide what I need, or it is buggy Aug 18 19:55:10 no 200R, no 2M2 Aug 18 19:55:42 about kexecboot, does someone have an idea? Aug 18 19:55:50 it breaks a lot of stuff Aug 18 19:56:04 and alas I'm late for a date with gf, so hope to see you around later Aug 18 19:56:18 DocScrutinizer: ok thanks see you later then Aug 18 19:56:25 see you later Aug 18 19:56:38 DocScrutinizer: was it for my issue the short D+ with D- ? Aug 18 19:57:19 less than 200R == short it Aug 18 19:57:22 ciao Aug 18 20:07:52 I wonder if HP realizes the contributor base they missed out on being handed by Nokia. Aug 18 20:08:39 they are morons Aug 18 20:08:57 that was the one OS is was looking at to replace my n900 Aug 18 20:09:36 What is the fastest way to call someone on the n900? Aug 18 20:09:55 I.e., someone who is not yet in the contacts list. Aug 18 20:10:25 maybe push power button, choose phone Aug 18 20:10:38 rip webos Aug 18 20:10:54 flux: choose phone? Aug 18 20:10:54 well, you needed to write webos apps in javascript, right? Aug 18 20:11:07 rly, pressing power button should pop up a menu Aug 18 20:11:26 and I'm pretty sure there Phone in that menu Aug 18 20:12:05 flux there is/was a native API as well Aug 18 20:12:11 flux, not really. Aug 18 20:12:17 exactly Aug 18 20:12:33 we're doomed Aug 18 20:12:35 well, that at least makes it sound less dumb :) Aug 18 20:12:36 no maemo Aug 18 20:12:38 no meego Aug 18 20:12:40 no webos Aug 18 20:12:45 flux: that does not happen here. Aug 18 20:12:59 rly, nothing happens from pressing power button? (don't hold it, you'll turn off the phone) Aug 18 20:13:03 flux: by power button you mean the button which powers off the device after 5 seconds or so? Aug 18 20:13:10 rly, yes Aug 18 20:13:12 flux: no, nothing happens. Aug 18 20:13:18 fun Aug 18 20:13:19 the only button in addition to camera button Aug 18 20:13:25 rly, well, something should :) Aug 18 20:13:41 flux: you have to press it 'completely'. Aug 18 20:13:42 it can also be pressed twice in sequence to lock the screen Aug 18 20:13:45 flux: not iw worked. Aug 18 20:13:56 rly, the button doesn't have half-pressed state Aug 18 20:14:34 flux: yes, I understand, but I thought I pressed it, but obviously I didn't; the machine is always right of course ;) Aug 18 20:50:33 Hello every1 Aug 18 20:50:58 what causes the MyDocs partition to behave as "read-only" while mounted rw Aug 18 20:52:09 corruption, etc... afaik N900 FS easily gets corrupt Aug 18 20:52:29 well i pulled the battery before cause it froze Aug 18 20:52:41 but, FAT32 shouldnt RO when corrupted Aug 18 20:52:54 ive had enough disk crashes to know that Aug 18 20:55:21 if no one helps u out soon, try to check the logs... this has been discussed here before, but i'm too noob to recall :p Aug 18 21:15:47 ah, many lines reminiscent of the elopcalypse. Aug 18 21:16:06 "we can also find HP execs in parking lots and beat them with sticks until they agree to do what we want" Aug 18 21:17:15 * SpeedEvil idly wonders about a meego dev program. Aug 18 21:17:24 * javispedro shudders at the idea that now the only alternate acceptable platform is android Aug 18 21:17:29 'take this, and do anything with it! Quickly! Please! Aug 18 21:17:36 Indeed. Aug 18 21:17:55 Large players exiting the market is a terrible thing. Aug 18 21:18:25 I might be crazy, but if in two years I have to choose between Android and Apple, I would choose Apple. Aug 18 21:18:51 On what grounds? Aug 18 21:19:09 javispedro, me too. Aug 18 21:19:13 It being less shit. Aug 18 21:19:29 so let's hope tomorrow the tide brings something new the same the tide today took away another platform. Aug 18 21:20:07 SpeedEvil: mostly same as GeneralAntilles; and I like Apple's arch from a designer PoV more than Android's. Aug 18 21:20:12 s/designer/architect ;) Aug 18 21:20:34 Android can't even run smoothly on a dual-1GHz Cortex-A9 with 1GB of RAM. Aug 18 21:21:49 Usability wise it's shit, too. Aug 18 21:21:52 well, hopefully in 2 years ms's offering will be a viable third choice at least Aug 18 21:21:55 It is a clusterfsck. It is more similar to old PalmOS or RIM's stuff than a new mobile platform. Aug 18 21:22:01 nid0, good luck with that. Aug 18 21:22:05 hah! Aug 18 21:22:06 * ShadowJK wonders if google's "own" phones run/ran it smooth Aug 18 21:22:22 ShadowJK, Nexus One didn't. Aug 18 21:22:26 Android is just plain shityt. Aug 18 21:22:42 Nokia/HP might abandon lesser-used platforms, Aug 18 21:22:46 but microsoft does the opposite Aug 18 21:22:57 I dont see the problem, their ui's infinitely nicer than android and far smoother, and if mango's any indication theyre piling the features on Aug 18 21:23:04 if WP7 ever reaches spot#1, they will say their job is done and abandon it. Aug 18 21:23:14 see IE6, see WinMo 6.5 Aug 18 21:23:40 and what will happen next is that progress in the area is slowed down by a decade until the next player comes. Aug 18 21:23:54 so they should have called it IE6 build 5678 instead of IE9? :) Aug 18 21:23:54 meh, what's that fuss about left over platforms? Aren't we "the community", don't we do our own platform? Aug 18 21:24:07 well, ie6 was job done, there was no value to them in producing the next version of a free browser that brings them no direct income and had no competition Aug 18 21:24:15 whereas wp7 does and has Aug 18 21:24:23 nid0: they did with wm6 Aug 18 21:24:23 it's actually just about vendor support for a particular OS on a particular HW Aug 18 21:24:38 nid0: once they beat palm, they stopped right in the tracks. Aug 18 21:25:07 javispedro: which platform? Aug 18 21:25:27 jacekowski: you mean which platform left us today? http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/18/hp-will-discontinue-operations-for-webos-devices/ Aug 18 21:25:35 expected Aug 18 21:25:44 Why would you choose WP7 over iOS? Aug 18 21:25:52 i'm surprised that it took them so long Aug 18 21:25:57 GeneralAntilles: because it's not unix based Aug 18 21:26:18 and over years i got fed up with nix based systems more and more and mroe Aug 18 21:26:40 honestly debian FTW Aug 18 21:26:46 iOS is more Step... Aug 18 21:26:51 jacekowski: wince is slightly more unixy than win32 Aug 18 21:27:06 for a start, they expose devices as files and have a single filesystem tree. Aug 18 21:27:08 maybe even ubuntu Aug 18 21:27:10 MacOS is more NextStep than Unix based :/ Aug 18 21:28:49 ShadowJK: as if NeXTStep was no *nix Aug 18 21:29:44 javispedro: win32 exposes devices as files Aug 18 21:29:45 ok it has a mach microkernel, and a few BSD remnants Aug 18 21:29:47 DocScrutinizer: *nix != Unix Aug 18 21:29:52 jacekowski: winnt, not win32. Aug 18 21:30:32 luke-jr: GNU is Not Unix Aug 18 21:30:38 Lots of things are files in windows, you just can't list them with 'dir' :-) Aug 18 21:30:39 neither is NeXT Aug 18 21:30:52 winnt also technically has a single filesystem tree. but all of win32 is based around drive letters. Aug 18 21:31:18 which do not exist at all in wince since they were allowed to break API. Aug 18 21:31:23 let's port Plan9 to N900 Aug 18 21:31:45 HURD Aug 18 21:31:55 * javispedro boots the HURD in a VM Aug 18 21:32:25 * javispedro slightly laughs Aug 18 21:32:35 javispedro: and then run DukeNukem4ever on it Aug 18 21:32:46 elopcalypse ----> "but Meego is NOT yet dead there's still Intel!" Aug 18 21:33:02 weboscalypse --> "but webOS is NOT yet dead there's still $RANDOM_HOPEFULLY_FUTURE_LICENSEE" Aug 18 21:33:43 maybe grid os will be the next big thing Aug 18 21:33:59 javispedro: maybe it's because linux on phone is a disaster Aug 18 21:34:05 I have to reinterate it: seems this week started with a Friday and was all Fridays since. Aug 18 21:34:11 jacekowski: ask those Google guys Aug 18 21:34:19 and android only succeded because it was hiding that fact Aug 18 21:34:20 jacekowski: they seem to be doing rather well seemingly. Aug 18 21:34:24 * DocScrutinizer just wonders if that'S just him or actually the mood and topics in this chan Aug 18 21:34:33 jacekowski: so you are saying gnu glibc on a phone is a disaster? Aug 18 21:34:33 javispedro: but android isn't really your typical linux Aug 18 21:34:55 what's exactly the disaster there? Aug 18 21:35:01 s/there/then/ Aug 18 21:35:02 javispedro meant: what's exactly the disaster then? Aug 18 21:35:16 ask normal users Aug 18 21:35:28 somehow palm pre didn't sell as good as android phones Aug 18 21:35:36 I remember cursing at how slow gtk was drawing xchat on my PC, and shaking my head at those lunatics that wanted to run linux on phones. Then I got the N810 with Linuc+GTK, and it was about 5 times more responsive than my Symbian cellphone :-) Aug 18 21:35:52 well, the palm pre had the distinct disadvantage that the actual phone was shit Aug 18 21:35:58 jacekowski: android is definitely NOT linux, esp wrt to embedded-relating properties Aug 18 21:36:03 ShadowJK: i had ngage Aug 18 21:36:07 ShadowJK: and it was bloody fast Aug 18 21:36:23 ShadowJK: and i had games for it Aug 18 21:36:27 and everything Aug 18 21:36:48 and it didn't sell. Aug 18 21:37:09 price Aug 18 21:37:25 i worked for 2 months at mcdonalds to buy it Aug 18 21:37:31 * Sicelo still has ngage :P Aug 18 21:37:33 it was probably cheaper than any of the phones that are sold today? Aug 18 21:37:39 no Aug 18 21:37:56 looks also didnt help it. Aug 18 21:37:57 I remember once considering getting it for 250€ Aug 18 21:38:08 so it was _way_ cheaper. Aug 18 21:38:09 palm pre has an all shitty formfactor Aug 18 21:38:32 too large, too small screen and too tiny kbd Aug 18 21:38:47 still better than N9's ;) Aug 18 21:38:57 WUT? Aug 18 21:39:02 aaah Aug 18 21:39:03 i'll buy WP7 version of N9 Aug 18 21:39:04 yeah Aug 18 21:39:29 I liked Pre3's form f better than N9's. But for me N810 was best. Aug 18 21:39:56 * ShadowJK mostly wants something that he can do stuff with easily, and can access email Aug 18 21:40:09 jacekowski: hope you already know C# Aug 18 21:40:10 N900 was first phone that could do that :P Aug 18 21:40:12 I think all the old nerds agreed on that from N900's birth on Aug 18 21:40:13 I still have my e90 for that <3 Aug 18 21:40:22 javispedro: i do Aug 18 21:40:25 javispedro: better than jav Aug 18 21:40:27 java* Aug 18 21:40:29 though "do stuff" was marginally possible on symbian too after it got python Aug 18 21:40:37 ...that N900 was even better if it had kept N810's formfactor Aug 18 21:40:47 I thought Win7M was silverlight Aug 18 21:40:49 "do stuff" was technically possible even on old PalmOS. Aug 18 21:41:13 how painless it is, that's another story. Aug 18 21:41:58 PalmOS was toxic architecture Aug 18 21:42:10 Well, the only way to do streaming audio was to dowmload a chunk, save as mp3, play back mp3 while downloading next file. There were gaps :P Aug 18 21:42:15 it was 1990's. Aug 18 21:42:26 same way android is 2000's. Aug 18 21:42:27 still Aug 18 21:42:43 will all the java and memory conserving crap. Aug 18 21:42:57 (and it still does it rather badly) Aug 18 21:43:16 then nokia made some new secret api to actually stream audio, and a net radio app, which only worked on a small subset of symbian, hooray :/ Aug 18 21:43:59 the only way to make background network activity on the PalmOS was to fake an audio stream so that your app was periodically called for new audio, so ;) Aug 18 21:45:54 * ShadowJK can't wait to see how smoothly excel in silverlight runs ;D Aug 18 21:46:18 heh, ari posted already Aug 18 21:46:23 s/posted/tweeted Aug 18 21:47:36 lol http://twitter.com/#!/outlawarth/status/104307594197348353 Aug 18 21:47:41 fakeselop was already saying he has "anti-midas" touch ;P first maemo then meego then webos ;) Aug 18 21:47:46 Being familiar with Ari's past endeavors, I'm going to have to agree. Aug 18 21:50:43 it's fun that the world leading PC manufacturer tried to get rid of its PC business because of "low profits". Aug 18 21:50:49 * javispedro now thinks the world is rather doomed. Aug 18 21:51:09 well, all home electronics is cheap Aug 18 21:51:17 so profit margins are now much lower Aug 18 21:51:39 but i don't understand why would you get rid of something that makes you profit Aug 18 21:52:45 I have a HP laptop someone asked me to fix. It's shaped like a brick, weighs like a brick, has the aesthetics of a brick. It seems full of random proprietary extension ports nobody will/would ever use :-) Aug 18 21:52:53 jacekowski: downward trend. Aug 18 21:52:53 * DocScrutinizer sets up an autokicker on regex "twitter.com/#!/" Aug 18 21:52:55 no wonder they arent making money Aug 18 21:53:22 ShadowJK: brick=cheap. sell many=profit. but they aren't making money for some reason. Aug 18 21:53:27 personally, the only HP kit I have is a fairly awesome all-in-one printer that cost less to buy new than the replacement 4 ink cartridges it takes Aug 18 21:53:29 DocScrutinizer, hey, I've got seniority. Aug 18 21:53:40 :-P Aug 18 21:53:59 free thoughts! twitter is crap! Aug 18 21:54:16 The N-Gage, when I got one, was the absolutely cheapest thing that ran Symbian they had. I think it was ~130 eur, and came bundled with some Tony Hawk game + an RC helicopter. But admittedly this was quite late, after it had turned out to be the flop. Aug 18 21:54:21 javispedro, custom electronics is probably more expensive than having some idiot make a plastic case for it ;-) Aug 18 21:54:45 I could ask tim riker to teach infobot to auto-resolve twiter.com URLs and spit out the content Aug 18 21:54:53 similar to ~wiki Aug 18 21:55:18 fizzie: that was QD you're talking about Aug 18 21:55:24 No, it wasn't. Aug 18 21:55:34 the "NGAGE App" ran quite smoothly on my otherwise slughish symbian, but it was focus stealing captive fullscreen :/ Aug 18 21:55:46 QD had rc helicopter bundled Aug 18 21:55:48 ~twitter Aug 18 21:55:48 well, twitter is a popular microblogging site Aug 18 21:55:55 blarg! Aug 18 21:56:05 ~useless Aug 18 21:56:06 * infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer in the darkest corner of the room. :( Aug 18 21:56:38 ~twitter http://twitter.com/#!/outlawarth/status/104307594197348353 Aug 18 21:56:39 jacekowski: Well, I can quite easily tell the original and the QD apart, and what I have here isn't QD. But the seller (verkkokauppa.com) kept bundling those 'copters with just about everything. Aug 18 21:57:43 I remember considering ngage too, but decided that typing stuff on its keyboard would be too slow :/ Aug 18 21:58:05 microblogging - nice. Actually usually the URL is longer than the relevant info bits contained in the 500kB download when you click on it Aug 18 21:58:06 NGage has been the only Symbian phone I've _EVER_ considered. Aug 18 21:58:16 which is why I'm quite sure it was less than 250€ Aug 18 21:58:30 quite sure it was 200€ but I'll toss in the 50€ for safety margin. Aug 18 21:59:55 and I'd even bet twitter friggin data junk you download with every click is infested by malware Aug 18 22:00:01 * ShadowJK bought a Siemens CF-62 for 250. It had 600-ish K ram for java2 ME :D the cpu was extremely slow, and like it succumbed to siemens quality issue death pretty fast :/ Aug 18 22:00:34 I also had siemens Aug 18 22:00:42 oh, I think their mobile division died too? Aug 18 22:00:46 I should add it to the list. Aug 18 22:01:11 a CX75 was the last one I had iirc. Aug 18 22:01:12 iirc LG bought it Aug 18 22:01:46 meh, once I had a c-10 iirc Aug 18 22:02:00 sucked Aug 18 22:02:49 then I got me a Nokia 6210 which I had like 10 years Aug 18 22:03:22 back when nokia build quality was good :P Aug 18 22:03:30 yeah Aug 18 22:03:55 hello I have a nokia N900 running maemo 5 PR1.3. My phone is not locked to a network. I'd like to know how to do manual network selection. I heard it was under settings > manual network selection but I don't see that Aug 18 22:04:01 and guess what, I used same battery all those years Aug 18 22:04:06 * javispedro never bought Nokia before the N810 =) Aug 18 22:04:24 I have an O2 sim from UK, and when visiting france it selected roaming onto orange-france Aug 18 22:04:30 and I bet the 6210 had bme as well X-P Aug 18 22:04:51 Primes: Settings -> Phone Aug 18 22:04:52 Primes, settings - phone Aug 18 22:04:59 d'oh! Aug 18 22:05:00 settings > phone > network selection Aug 18 22:05:01 still had a nokia 8310 since 9 years with original battery Aug 18 22:05:10 LOL Aug 18 22:05:41 allow data roaming, allow roaming Aug 18 22:05:48 or better: disallow Aug 18 22:05:55 i've still got my like 13 year old 3210 somewhere Aug 18 22:05:59 or select "manual network selection" Aug 18 22:06:01 * javispedro cries Aug 18 22:06:06 Ah ok, thanks, after scrolling down, I found those settings. Great Aug 18 22:06:33 webOS had way larger marketshare than Meego, and a CEO that wasn't a Microsoft trojan horse, and despite that got the axe. Aug 18 22:06:39 my 3210 underclocked itself. Then I borrowed its battery for my discman, and the battery got a bit angry :| Aug 18 22:07:09 javispedro: he could be a trojan of a different kind Aug 18 22:09:20 * javispedro 's optimism largely ran off for the night. Aug 18 22:09:21 hes clearly a macromedia trojan really, maybe its all part of his diabolical plan to bring coldfusion to the masses Aug 18 22:10:40 I never really looked into it, so: webos ever been meant to be anything beyond sth like err.. e.g. bada? Aug 18 22:11:56 why do you think bada is not mean to be something beyond $INSERT_RANDOM_OTHER_PLATFORM? Aug 18 22:12:25 trojan or not, some decisions coming out of nokia seem crazy. eg call yourself a burning platform, say your main OS is dead. Announce totally new product before availability, announce without ship for a year. Go with an OS that your rivals have not been able to succeed with. Make a new phone and discourage selling it in some countries. Aug 18 22:12:58 bada, according to raster, is a hickup, and according to what I read about it is a closed proprietary OS with a free SDK Aug 18 22:13:00 And that's without mentioning change around all the top jobs, lose some best people and sack your developers, not to mention alienate the open source community Aug 18 22:14:58 * DocScrutinizer just had a daydream: Nokia grows a brain and restarts another production run of N900i, just with better SoC/POP (and some very clever rework for a thruhole USB) Aug 18 22:15:27 and, dear god, a decent keyboard Aug 18 22:15:34 no way Aug 18 22:15:43 how about a nokia n950 with NFC, with replaceable battery, with a full size sim slot, into retail Aug 18 22:16:12 the whole point being they already got *everything* for that enterprise, already done, to the FCC even Aug 18 22:16:39 if you want developers to write NFC apps, giving them a dev phone without NFC ..... doing something wrong Aug 18 22:16:54 USB2GO ie host and slave modes will also help Aug 18 22:16:58 why do people have this obsession with NFC? Aug 18 22:17:01 it's bad and wrong and evil Aug 18 22:17:02 Primes: N950 HAS "full size" SIM Aug 18 22:17:15 whats the problem with nfc Aug 18 22:17:26 N9 has cut down I guess I made assumption they were same Aug 18 22:17:28 Primes: or did you talk about credit card sized SIM? Aug 18 22:17:40 it's neither as useful as bluetooth nor as simple as RFID Aug 18 22:17:48 both of which are pretty flawed systems themselves Aug 18 22:18:09 Usually you get a credit card size and have to pop it out for a standard size sim. That's useful to swap between phones, as hackers will do Aug 18 22:18:28 once you cut them, it's less useful expect to swap with an iphone Aug 18 22:18:37 Top tip. Aug 18 22:18:56 If you have a credit-card with a micro-SIM in, you can - with a chisel - make it into a standard SIM. Aug 18 22:19:01 well, it's just form factor Aug 18 22:19:12 NEVER insert microsim with adapter to N950? Aug 18 22:19:15 both bluetooth and rfid had security issues. But the payments industry seems to be adopting NFC. I want to be able to pay stuff using my smartphone Aug 18 22:19:16 i'm sure you can get µsim->sim adapters Aug 18 22:19:17 And yes - that too Aug 18 22:19:27 much like microsd->sd adapters Aug 18 22:19:28 never ever use a microsim adaptor in n950 Aug 18 22:19:33 I don't have a N950 to try it with Aug 18 22:19:36 I wouldn't know, not having one :) Aug 18 22:19:40 Works fine for n900 though. Aug 18 22:19:40 any particular reason? Aug 18 22:19:47 lupine_85: It breaks the SIM slot. Aug 18 22:19:52 ouch Aug 18 22:20:00 engineering fail Aug 18 22:20:01 As the contacts get caught in the gap Aug 18 22:20:04 really? is that all adaptors or just some?? Aug 18 22:20:09 At least one Aug 18 22:20:09 lupine_85: not really Aug 18 22:20:20 still, it was a development phone Aug 18 22:20:26 Specification fail. Aug 18 22:20:30 Not so much engineering Aug 18 22:20:32 can't expect too much of it Aug 18 22:20:35 maybe it's designed that way so you're holding it wrong Aug 18 22:20:56 I dont understand why people pay for these adaptors, are places other than the uk that stingy with sims that you cant walk into your nearest network's shop and get one the right size? Aug 18 22:21:04 Ideally I'd like a phone with 2 sim slots like some asian ones Aug 18 22:21:24 nid0: you can, but not with same contract usually Aug 18 22:21:29 :\ Aug 18 22:21:29 Even some nokia asian ones now Aug 18 22:21:37 lame networks Aug 18 22:21:58 but it's not quick to port a nice old 2G number from my business card onto their new "giveaway" sims Aug 18 22:22:20 nid0: prepaid aka PAYG never actually come as twin SIM Aug 18 22:22:36 DocScrutinizer: closed OS with free SDK: isn't that the definition of Maemo and Meego also ;) Aug 18 22:22:44 so your PAYG number is locked to one SIM formfactor Aug 18 22:23:00 but 2 sims ie 2 networks have advantageous tariff eg international Aug 18 22:23:16 you can swap formfactor and keep number, but it costs and is irreversible Aug 18 22:23:38 Using one of those choppers you can make a full sim into a mini one. It should just work. But you can't easily glue the excess back on to get a big one again Aug 18 22:23:44 javispedro: not exactly Aug 18 22:23:53 maybe now that webos is dead it's time to make something public Aug 18 22:24:03 though for meego HARM I'd agree Aug 18 22:24:07 when did webos died? Aug 18 22:24:20 I run webOS on my N900 =) Aug 18 22:24:22 today? Aug 18 22:25:14 N900 can run maemo, meego, kubuntu, debian, windows95, nitdroid..... Aug 18 22:25:16 well, its gone stagnant. not many people yet seem to have picked up on the fact that hp are evidently wanting to transition to software and services, and webos is software. Aug 18 22:25:24 they just need an interested hardware vendor to use it Aug 18 22:26:25 nid0: my number never changed since 1999, and I still have that SIM that for sure is of the crackable generation - so IF I really bothered I probably could clone _that_one_ Aug 18 22:26:44 nid0: you see why I'd never swap it for a microsim Aug 18 22:27:15 I have the old crackable 2G sim with a nice number. I don't think you can clone it into a 3G sim, too different Aug 18 22:27:37 meh, the SIM itself is all the same for 3G Aug 18 22:28:12 yes for 3G (except some minor mem capacity difference) but 2G changed into 3G different Aug 18 22:28:16 it actually never really changed (except for power supply voltage) Aug 18 22:28:58 that's what I thought voltage change. so I didn't want to bust my 3G n900 by inserting a 2G sim which could draw too much current Aug 18 22:29:18 nah, no problem Aug 18 22:29:38 a nokia care guy once told me the effect an older sim has on battery is noticeable Aug 18 22:29:53 plausible Aug 18 22:30:04 sure Aug 18 22:30:10 it's a few mA Aug 18 22:30:34 which makes a difference like 250 vs 100h standby maybe Aug 18 22:30:43 maybe less Aug 18 22:31:00 but no hw will break on old SIM Aug 18 22:31:08 not even the SIM :-) Aug 18 22:31:23 not even new SIM in old 3.3V phones Aug 18 22:31:36 yeah new phones won't break old sim. But I'm not confident of the opposite. Aug 18 22:32:04 it's just all phones support the old standard still, and the SIMs also work on old standard still Aug 18 22:32:58 Primes: afaik all SIM/phone start up at 3V3, then *may* negotiate lower voltage Aug 18 22:33:23 Umm. Weren't _VERY_ old SIMs 5v? Aug 18 22:33:37 maybe, I don't actually recall Aug 18 22:33:49 But not with something even as new as 1999 Aug 18 22:34:14 I didn't read all the gsm specs. As speedevil says some maybe were originally higher. I don't know how old my 2G sim is in that timescale, perhaps 2003 Aug 18 22:34:37 But a 5v SIM simply just won't work Aug 18 22:34:42 no damage on either side will occu Aug 18 22:34:42 bah, no issues with those "youngsters" Aug 18 22:35:50 on Freerunner we had issues with some 3G cards, but that was due to modem firmware borked on clock freq negotiation with those particular types iirc Aug 18 22:36:12 and it wasn't exactly related to "3G" Aug 18 22:36:25 more to the chip type in the card Aug 18 22:37:06 I think this was the major fix with moko9 fw Aug 18 22:37:16 * javispedro cries some more... waaaaaaaaaaah Aug 18 22:37:27 javispedro: wazzup? Aug 18 22:37:30 * javispedro looks at the n900 and n950 and REALLY hopes they last now. Aug 18 22:37:47 right well I like 3G so I'll be trying to get the network to port my 2G number onto this 3G or a replacement 3G card. The guy in their store seemed to think it was complex either a 3 or 2 step process depending if I was signing up to contract or not Aug 18 22:38:02 javispedro: you know 950 never will even reach maturity Aug 18 22:38:19 it is more mature than a n900 I say Aug 18 22:38:25 hardly Aug 18 22:38:26 meh Aug 18 22:38:31 no way Aug 18 22:38:51 and the OS will *never* get fully adapted to 950, it's a N9 OS Aug 18 22:38:52 if there's not a new fw someday it'll probably be relegated quite quickly. Aug 18 22:38:55 hardware wise it's better. The software can catch up over time Aug 18 22:39:21 the community can adapt it more, IF there are enough of the phones around Aug 18 22:39:22 odds are future OS versions have _more_ N950 specific flaws rather than less Aug 18 22:39:30 hardware wise sadly it's a bit on the underpowered side, save for the much appreciated RAM. Aug 18 22:39:37 usb port has just gone kaput ^^ Aug 18 22:39:52 DocScrutinizer: the current OS has not many N950 flaws. Rather, browser crashes, fenix crashes are common. Aug 18 22:39:55 Isn't the n950 the same 1ghz as the N9? Aug 18 22:40:01 the only two things that annoys me really much (except aegis and capacitive screen) are "smart" keyboard behavior when typing messages and notes and landscape mode glitches Aug 18 22:40:16 does opera browser crash on it? Aug 18 22:40:26 i'm still using my 10 years old simcard Aug 18 22:40:28 browser and email crashes just as often as n900 did Aug 18 22:40:30 Primes: there aren't enough around, and relevant bits are still blobs Aug 18 22:40:35 from times when nobody heard about 3g Aug 18 22:40:38 the only difference is MfE now really works Aug 18 22:40:39 Arkenoi: NOWHERE near it. Aug 18 22:40:57 my browsers never crashed on n900 (I used 4 so far) Aug 18 22:41:08 Primes: BS Aug 18 22:41:12 Primes: microb crashed Aug 18 22:41:17 microb did crash quite frequently for me Aug 18 22:41:17 browser crashes for every other page, EVEN with the advantage that the N950 has NO flash while the N900 does (and Flash is to blame for most the crashes I had on the N900) Aug 18 22:41:17 Primes: chromium crashed Aug 18 22:41:18 javispedro: look at $random_app, what do you see? Right! portrait mode Aug 18 22:41:30 DocScrutinizer: portrait mode is not a nuisance for me Aug 18 22:41:37 actually I partially prefer portrait mode. Aug 18 22:41:38 for me it is Aug 18 22:41:44 i only had camera app crash Aug 18 22:41:46 "you're surfing it wrong" Aug 18 22:41:48 nothing else Aug 18 22:41:58 i have uptimes of 30days Aug 18 22:42:00 ..ok Aug 18 22:42:12 and fenix has lots of crashes pluse a few reproduceable ones (try to fetch mail without an active icd2 connection for ex.) Aug 18 22:42:41 I can even get Xorg to crash.... Aug 18 22:42:53 i havent managed that yet ^^ Aug 18 22:43:10 the first days I was considering sending my coredumps directory... but by now it's rather large. Aug 18 22:44:02 I got openoffice running. Went to our hackerspace the other day. I was the only person whose phone could run openoffice lol Aug 18 22:44:12 webos also could run openoffice! Aug 18 22:44:17 * javispedro goes cries some more Aug 18 22:44:37 FWIW: http://paste.debian.net/126674/ Aug 18 22:44:51 if they made n900 in an ipad form factor I'd use it Aug 18 22:45:11 Primes: http://cordiatab.com/ Aug 18 22:45:40 * Arkenoi wishes n950 could run DtG, OOo sucks big time Aug 18 22:47:21 that cordia tab looks nice, but why the mono speaker rather than stereo? Aug 18 22:47:38 pfff on N950 _everything_ sucks, except HARMed err MTFed apps that are able to decode sausage touch events Aug 18 22:48:14 well, everything not. Aug 18 22:48:21 Sausage touch? That sounds rude, I daren't ask Aug 18 22:48:27 I'm rather impressed by Qt's rendering and relayouting speed. Aug 18 22:48:35 yoh Aug 18 22:48:44 doesn't help though Aug 18 22:48:52 c-ts is c-ts is c-ts Aug 18 22:48:58 c-ts is crap ts indeed. Aug 18 22:49:08 can't understand why anyone would want it. Aug 18 22:49:43 ah, you meant "everything" as in "every desktop GNU/Linux app". Aug 18 22:49:46 misunderstood. Aug 18 22:50:16 * Arkenoi loves n950 feel Aug 18 22:51:03 Arkenoi: the device is shiny, and cool, and good quality. Just it's almost a me-too-iPhone and not made for DocScrutinizer Aug 18 22:51:24 keyboard is way better Aug 18 22:51:40 if it would not be spoiled with "smart" behavior Aug 18 22:51:46 there's something weird with the hwkb Aug 18 22:51:54 yeah, and you actually can *use* the kbd when device sits on table Aug 18 22:52:15 I do not like the keyb as much as the N900 or N810. Aug 18 22:52:21 but I cannot tell why. Aug 18 22:52:58 is there no known method to force it to behave as a decent keyboard should do, without all that stupid "smartphone smartass tricks"? Aug 18 22:53:03 a friend had a nokia external bluetooth keyboard he bought on ebay I guess it might connect with the n900. His was white and folded in half, nearly full size keys Aug 18 22:53:04 javispedro: usually I get same feeling, but 5 days ago I had 30s were I noticed it's not bad at all, This moment ended as it came Aug 18 22:53:33 I do think it might be because it requires getting used to it. Aug 18 22:53:34 you mean it insists on that texting expansion prediction tricks? Aug 18 22:53:41 i switched to n900 from e90 and i can say n900 keyboard truly sucked. with n950 i feel almost as comfortable as before Aug 18 22:53:57 javispedro: that, and the missing convexity of keycaps Aug 18 22:54:08 But I do not remember such a strong feeling when moving from n810 to n900 and there is no comparison (the n810 is ages better) Aug 18 22:54:26 n900 keys are a little small. I'd quite like the n900 bigger/wider. In particular the extra line of keys for the numerics, like the n950 Aug 18 22:54:29 so, as said, I feel there's something weird. Can't get to the same speed and it gets tiresome. Aug 18 22:54:59 Primes: prediction can be turned off, but weird attempts to insert capital letter after dot etc etc cannot Aug 18 22:55:01 that's probably all about the keycap shape Aug 18 22:55:10 DocScrutinizer: might be, come to think of it. Aug 18 22:55:20 It's compactness, I can burst to 89 words a minute on a full desktop quality keyboard, mobile is a compromise Aug 18 22:55:21 on both the N810 and the N900 they were slightly convex as you mentioned Aug 18 22:55:42 Right that's annoying. I do my own capitalisation by choice Aug 18 22:56:05 Primes: you clearly are not a Maemo oldtimer, eh? Aug 18 22:56:15 you get used to it. Aug 18 22:56:15 Arkenoi: that are the flaws in OS that will never vanish Aug 18 22:56:27 no, I wanted this N900 since launch, now I have one. I was using linux for many years though Aug 18 22:56:35 DocScrutinizer: ..like? except aegis Aug 18 22:56:46 Primes: prediction can be turned off, but weird attempts to insert capital letter after dot etc etc cannot Aug 18 22:57:03 all of them can be turned off, afaik vkb is mostly open. Aug 18 22:57:13 ooh it is? Aug 18 22:57:17 javispedro: HOW? Aug 18 22:57:21 probably same level as Maemo though. Aug 18 22:57:52 Arkenoi: on Maemo? the package you want to edit is called hildon input method. Aug 18 22:57:52 ah, vkb. and how can i turn it off for hw keyboard? Aug 18 22:57:57 same Aug 18 22:58:02 so pretty please FIX THE SHIT somebody! IT's so annoying the Fn and shift key are not sticky Aug 18 22:58:08 Considering n900 is available used for less than 1/3 of the launch price, it's a bargain Aug 18 22:58:27 javispedro: on fremantle i successfully turned it off just using standard settings Aug 18 22:58:28 let alone autocapitalization Aug 18 22:58:54 Stickyness needs to be a configurable option. Autocapitalization is always evil. Aug 18 23:00:11 as is the braindamaged word completion Aug 18 23:00:11 nokia's obsession with it is ridiculous. same thing on symbian Aug 18 23:00:31 * javispedro tries to forget about the HP news and continue coding as usual... Aug 18 23:01:06 javispedro: to better your mood (I hoe): any news about FMRX audio? Aug 18 23:01:17 hope* Aug 18 23:01:20 sadly, no Aug 18 23:01:52 when will the n9 be available? Aug 18 23:01:52 I've been busy with vsync as of lately but the current status is the same as last week: out of ideas. Aug 18 23:02:27 maybe never Aug 18 23:02:39 HP was acting like idiots since the very beginning. i know several people who were willing to buy webOS device once it will be available in the local store, but it did never get in. Aug 18 23:02:40 don't you think the dude that wrote "(c) @nokia" into header of audio related stuff should be able to help? Aug 18 23:02:43 not never, just not in many countries Aug 18 23:03:01 amazon will have it, sourced from Austria Aug 18 23:03:18 yeah well even the swedish site that used to promote it is gone Aug 18 23:03:37 so ask amazon... Aug 18 23:04:10 they now say it won't be in UK (my home) , finland (their home) or germany (linux hackers home) Aug 18 23:04:12 majority of people buys in local retail only, no internet orders Aug 18 23:04:38 and it was not available Aug 18 23:04:46 javispedro: you'd think that audio dude had to have access to the schematic details for all McBSP and analog audio crap Aug 18 23:04:55 (nor via the internet worldwide officially anyways) Aug 18 23:05:02 maybe the networks and their stores don't want an "open" phone that supports multi network, voip, less "customisation" (crapware) Aug 18 23:05:51 Primes: no one gives a flying fsck to cellular network operators here in russia Aug 18 23:05:58 they do not control the market at all Aug 18 23:05:59 DocScrutinizer: so you're saying I should email the wl1273 fm driver author.. Aug 18 23:06:05 most people buy subsidised phone on contract. The n9 is more like 600 GBP sim free Aug 18 23:06:09 and it is typical in EMEA as i understand it Aug 18 23:06:20 javispedro: yes, CC alsa author Aug 18 23:06:35 alsa author is TI, mostly Aug 18 23:06:46 CC PA author (though this prolly will be the same) Aug 18 23:06:47 except for wl1273 codec which is the same guy Aug 18 23:06:51 I bought my phones without contracts. If not I'd unlock them anyway. Aug 18 23:07:36 The sheeple will continue to buy iphones and androids Aug 18 23:07:48 javispedro: aaah, CC quim gil OF COURSE Aug 18 23:08:23 let's try the fm driver guy first, I hope he knows the rm680 best. Aug 18 23:08:25 CC konttori CC DocScrutinizer Aug 18 23:10:01 I'd not miss qgil out of CC, it might be relevant he keeps track of the problems the devels face. And please include me to CC as well Aug 18 23:10:57 if you don't mind Aug 18 23:14:16 try to find the guy who checked in the alsaped rules file (whatever been the real name of that cryptic crap), he's the one who definitely has to know *all* about audio Aug 18 23:16:14 oh Aug 18 23:16:17 this reminds me Aug 18 23:16:33 the alsaped files also hint about analog fmrx Aug 18 23:16:44 but I dunno whether it is a reminiscence of N900 or what. Aug 18 23:16:52 DocScrutinizer: grep fmrx and you'll see. Aug 18 23:17:05 (there's no much though) Aug 18 23:17:25 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63997 Aug 18 23:17:51 MY EYES! THE GOGGLES! THEY DO NOTHING!!! Aug 18 23:18:19 CBA to download some *.sh.gz to find out about the FQNof alsaped file Aug 18 23:18:33 from that guy? Aug 18 23:18:35 I have real device Aug 18 23:18:38 btw Aug 18 23:18:47 first nomination for september council election: jeremiah Aug 18 23:18:51 mind sharing the FQN? Aug 18 23:19:03 DocScrutinizer: ah, a moment. Aug 18 23:19:49 /usr/share/policy/etc/noswap/pulse/xpolicy.conf Aug 18 23:19:54 (n950) Aug 18 23:20:04 actually Aug 18 23:20:06 it's funny. Aug 18 23:20:15 that file hints about the DIGITAL input Aug 18 23:20:24 * javispedro is now confused Aug 18 23:20:27 thnx Aug 18 23:20:46 * DocScrutinizer boots 950 Aug 18 23:21:16 ah, here it is. Aug 18 23:21:27 so you have two references to fmrx on the same file Aug 18 23:21:35 one mentions fmrx input via digital port aka codec Aug 18 23:21:39 wl127x codec Aug 18 23:21:46 the other mentions analog port aka hw0 Aug 18 23:21:53 (which is twl codec) Aug 18 23:22:44 it does correctly mention that BT HSP goes via wl127x, and a2dp goes via bluez. Aug 18 23:25:19 hmm Aug 18 23:26:26 javispedro: Read http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75863? Aug 18 23:26:58 oh, first time there's more info on TMO than on the community mailing list! ;) Aug 18 23:27:28 javispedro: Yeah, well SD69 fucked up the formatting, sending BBCode everywhere. So, for once, TMO has better formatting. It's entertaining in a mini-TMO kinda way Aug 18 23:27:36 (actually seems to be because the ml mail was misformatted and brain skipped it) Aug 18 23:35:08 ohnoes, politics! Aug 18 23:39:16 * javispedro doesn't have an opinion on the maemo.org topic Aug 18 23:40:55 crappety crap... the lcd display on my n900 has cracked... it's like "brand new! psychedelic n900! now with funky randomly colored stripes and groovy flickering" Aug 18 23:41:28 sadly, I'm just a type B in Jaffa's "two types of people" list, and thus I'd just move try to set up a diablo autobuilder in COBS and call it a day. Aug 18 23:41:34 diablo+fremantle Aug 18 23:42:59 javispedro: A Diablo/Fremantle autobuilder in COBS helps solve the biggest cost sink in maemo.org (I'm guessing): the autobuilder & repos Aug 18 23:43:34 is it a given that nokia will keep tablet-dev.n.c up though? Aug 18 23:43:53 err... tablets-dev Aug 18 23:45:08 I'm guessing there's not much chance of getting the n900 display repaired these days... Aug 18 23:47:03 wow HP killed WebOS Aug 18 23:47:03 javispedro: If not, that's "solvable" by discussion (I'd guess) Aug 18 23:47:21 * javispedro cries again Aug 18 23:50:07 javispedro: You're going to be doing that a lot, aren't you? Aug 18 23:50:19 webOS was interesting, but they just didn't make any hardware that interested me running it Aug 18 23:50:37 indeed. Aug 18 23:50:43 thought I was eyeing the Pre3. Aug 18 23:50:47 *though Aug 18 23:59:20 n900 display and/or digitiser were often on ebay these days Aug 19 00:00:56 guide anywhere on how to fix broken usb port yourself? ive got a general idea, just need to read something Aug 19 00:01:39 ~usbfix Aug 19 00:01:40 Fixate receptacle like this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=547991#post547991 - get the pic.zip form there http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=870017&postcount=27 for details how to deal with contact pads came off, or >>NEVER use epoxy glue!<< Aug 19 00:02:09 thanks m8 Aug 19 00:02:53 off to maplins tomorrow ^^ Aug 19 00:03:06 buy myself a teeeenie tiny soldering iron Aug 19 00:03:22 Primes: hmm, interesting Aug 19 00:03:40 Also the appropriate screwdriver Aug 19 00:03:50 Possibly an idea to source a fresh USB socket too Aug 19 00:05:05 the port hasnt come off th board yet Aug 19 00:05:12 but its failing to charge Aug 19 00:05:21 used n900 available around 120 GBP from cex store. You could get lower C grade or locked if you just want to cannibalise for parts Aug 19 00:05:34 fusi: 0th question. Aug 19 00:05:48 fusi: Have you checked another lead/computer? Aug 19 00:05:53 Primes: what store? Aug 19 00:05:54 thanks Primes Aug 19 00:05:59 SpeedEvil: heheh yes ;) Aug 19 00:06:30 fusi: Also - find a bright light, and ensure there is no debris in the connector Aug 19 00:06:30 just wondering if it can be fixed if its still on the baord Aug 19 00:06:36 or if its a gonner already Aug 19 00:06:51 na its defo gone m8 Aug 19 00:07:06 k Aug 19 00:07:12 i can/could get charge light with certain force on port Aug 19 00:07:24 through cable i.e. pushing upwards, inwards, outwards etc Aug 19 00:07:48 gut feelin says im gonna have to pull it off the board and do a botch job Aug 19 00:08:08 surface mounted isnt it? Aug 19 00:08:18 connectors are gonna be underneath, wont get an iorn in there Aug 19 00:08:37 hmm Aug 19 00:08:41 speedevil the high street store selling used n900 have online cex.co.uk see pricing and stock availability (what is in what store) there Aug 19 00:10:12 what are the A B and C's for? Aug 19 00:10:17 quality? Aug 19 00:10:31 A will be mint condition with a box and all accessory Aug 19 00:10:40 ooh Aug 19 00:10:49 really? Aug 19 00:11:16 I bought a B and actually it had those, with very few minor scratches that aren't visible in use really (I probably gave more scratch myself) Aug 19 00:11:16 hmmm Aug 19 00:11:22 im soooo tempted to buy a secod one Aug 19 00:11:45 suprised somewhere has it in stock Aug 19 00:11:58 some B will not have box/accessories. C will be tested working, probably charger but no video out cable etc. Aug 19 00:12:20 yeah well all those iphone wanters traded in their n900 probably Aug 19 00:12:58 you can also watch the n900 on ebay, but it's hard to know what price the auction will finish at because of competing bidders Aug 19 00:15:47 heh Aug 19 00:15:53 aye Aug 19 00:16:01 hmm Aug 19 00:16:10 i hope the seals havent come off Aug 19 00:16:13 bet they bloody have Aug 19 00:17:25 yeah I'm kinda tempted to get second n900 myself, run one on o2, one on three Aug 19 00:18:10 three have a new "unlimited" data sim. From my use of three mifi unit their network seems ok Aug 19 00:27:45 oooh Aug 19 00:27:53 im so tempted but i really cant afford it Aug 19 00:28:07 i only really need one Aug 19 00:29:10 right Aug 19 00:29:16 next question Aug 19 00:29:49 given a 500ma usb cable, can i charge a battery directly Aug 19 00:30:01 i.e. if i strip the wire down Aug 19 00:30:30 ill google that heh ;p Aug 19 00:32:43 you don't charge those lithium battery by wire it up to usb 5v!!! Lithium could catch fire. You can recharge battery in another n900, another nokia phone using the same battery, the battery charger official is also available Aug 19 00:34:41 also I'm guess n900 price in cex may fall once n9 becomes onto market (n900 owners selling to upgrade) Aug 19 00:36:58 d'oh Aug 19 00:37:11 have just been reading stuff along those lines Aug 19 00:37:28 sigh Aug 19 00:37:44 i am now phoneless for an indeterminate perdiod of time Aug 19 00:39:05 some other nokia phone use the same battery. See if any friends own that, or buy a spare battery that will come in handy, or see if a friendly store can charge it for you Aug 19 00:40:15 i dont trust people Aug 19 00:40:17 :p Aug 19 00:40:37 have just bought a desktop charger Aug 19 00:40:45 might arrive by saterday maybe Aug 19 00:41:46 I trust people to charge a battery, I don't hand them my root passwords or encryption keys Aug 19 00:42:03 how much was the charger? Aug 19 00:42:16 i guess im saying, id rather sort it out myself than rely on others ;) Aug 19 00:42:33 4 quid ish Aug 19 00:42:42 http://www.bestofferbuy.com/bl5j-battery-desktop-charger-for-nokia-n900-5800-x6-p-56247.html Aug 19 00:42:45 yes it's less favours they can call in Aug 19 00:43:08 well, i dont like asking and getting rejected ;p Aug 19 00:45:36 I can handle the rejection assuming I don't have to visit the store in future :-) Aug 19 00:46:09 That charger is really cheap. It's not original nokia OEM, but it will charge those batteries. Tempting. Aug 19 00:47:33 Early n900 had a problem where charging port usb came off. Later design revision changed it. Don't know which you have but some engineer may be experienced at the replacement and have required tools Aug 19 00:59:53 hi I I need xsltproc to be installed. How can I do it? Aug 19 01:24:34 fusi: you'll see on those pictures on tmo that the contacts are not under the component, despite it's SMT Aug 19 01:24:48 ~factinfo usbfix Aug 19 01:24:48 usbfix -- created by DocScrutinizer <~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg> at Thu Aug 4 15:11:27 2011 (14 days); it has been requested 11 times, last by SpeedEvil, 1h 23m 8s ago; it has been locked by DocScrutinizer. Aug 19 01:25:00 ~usbfix Aug 19 01:25:00 Fixate receptacle like this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=547991#post547991 - get the pic.zip form there http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=870017&postcount=27 for details how to deal with contact pads came off, or >>NEVER use epoxy glue!<< Aug 19 01:25:02 err Aug 19 01:26:18 fusi: can you still connect to PC and select mass storage/PCsuite mode? Aug 19 02:08:13 and much like after the elopcalypse, HP stock is already going DOOOOOOoooooooowwwn Aug 19 02:08:35 -10% so far. Aug 19 02:12:17 lol Aug 19 02:12:22 Lotta idiots at the top Aug 19 02:12:28 The baby boomers need to die off or retired Aug 19 02:21:54 villager: aty? Aug 19 02:21:59 ayt too... Aug 19 02:27:50 * javispedro hopes for a rather large hp tablet price drop, it still has a IPS screen after all =) Aug 19 02:28:09 so many people "returning" their tablets on #webos that it might happen Aug 19 02:29:46 I toyed with the idea of a WebOS tablet Aug 19 02:30:22 I think I'm going to get a convertable Lenovo netbook/tablet and just dual boot meego and pc-bsd on it. Aug 19 02:31:08 I am getting the x220 Aug 19 02:31:20 i really want a pre3... :/ Aug 19 02:31:33 (x220t) Aug 19 02:31:49 I'm looking at the x220s with the slate battery Aug 19 02:31:59 i've used an original pixi, and the UI is pretty nice. i don't really know what brought about this whole decision Aug 19 02:32:02 still thinking the lite convertable tablet would be a good addition. Aug 19 02:34:05 and the whole notion of phone + tablet + desktop integration was crucial Aug 19 02:35:03 flailingmonkey: I do agree; it's a stupid idea but it rather works Aug 19 02:35:15 there was an Intel Meego demo doing the same months before HP's. Aug 19 02:35:32 HP marketed it first though. Aug 19 02:35:57 if integration is implemented solidly, it is a major benefit. not just feature Aug 19 02:36:18 I think the blackberry + playbook integration is pretty good Aug 19 02:36:34 of course neither is open, and neither works particularly well with !windows Aug 19 02:37:50 either way, Pre3=N) Aug 19 02:37:55 Pre3=N9 Aug 19 02:38:02 you'd be lucky if you ever find one. Aug 19 02:39:30 I have a friend who might be willing to ship me an N9 when they're released. Aug 19 02:40:33 as it is, I'm attempting to install the devel version of sync-evolution to see if I can get my calendars syncing at work. and at home. Aug 19 02:42:51 ah, the death of PalmOne. Aug 19 02:44:44 both palms are gone Aug 19 02:44:59 we need something useful Aug 19 02:45:11 useable would suffice Aug 19 02:50:28 well, PalmSource is still somewhat alive Aug 19 02:50:37 one half of PalmSource is doing rather well Aug 19 02:51:00 they made some rather popular Linux-based operating system Aug 19 02:51:04 I think they call it Android. Aug 19 02:55:46 javispedro: so palmsource was purchased by oracle eh? :) Aug 19 02:56:16 javispedro: sorry, couldn't resist the Dalvek jab Aug 19 02:57:31 there is no purchase involved, it's just that a bunch of employees went for android in 2005/2006 and you can see large influences of PalmOS in the design Aug 19 02:57:58 like Binder (from Palm/Be's OpenBinder) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Aug 19 02:59:57 2011