**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Aug 19 02:59:57 2011 Aug 19 03:12:23 yeah Aug 19 03:13:07 i wonder where the MeeGo Nokians will go... I keep waiting for someone to round up the best of Nokia's engineers and create a startup Aug 19 03:13:24 but I bet software patents would be an issue Aug 19 03:14:11 NokiaSoft vs Googmoto vs Apple, Patent Goliaths Aug 19 03:14:13 really? thought Access nuked them Aug 19 03:17:03 ds3: and what happens when you nuke a company? the talent goes into a then-startup. Aug 19 03:27:16 javispedro: the talent left a long time ago Aug 19 06:49:20 "China clones iPhone, iStores, Steve Jobs" =) Aug 19 06:50:30 http://micgadget.com/14745/xiaomis-ceo-is-imitating-steve-jobs/ Aug 19 07:09:49 where is the innovation in china?? Aug 19 07:12:26 Who cares about innovation? Aug 19 07:12:36 Nowadays, anyway... Aug 19 07:17:56 LarsN: "ayt"? no, I was sleeping a bit... Aug 19 07:18:38 moo wazd Aug 19 07:18:58 wazd:I think you should also get a pair of jeans and a black turtleneck Aug 19 07:19:15 wazd: YOu will do a better Jobs impersonation that the Chinese guy Aug 19 08:08:13 Aug 19 08:29:38 hi, tried to make an Easy Debian squeeze image for the n900, the chroot works, but can't boot lxde graphically. Any idea how to launch x from chroot? Aug 19 08:30:13 jack_lt, just a guess, but the X server is probably listening on a socket that isn't in the chroot Aug 19 08:30:18 i selected a bunch of applications for install with FAM before going to bed last night, this morning i find my n900 turned off (was charging, battery full) Aug 19 08:30:18 any was i can find out how far it got? i can't seem to find a dpkg.log (why is that?) Aug 19 08:30:20 (UNIX socket) Aug 19 08:30:37 I typically mount --bind /sys, /tmp, /proc and /dev as a matter of course in my chroots Aug 19 08:30:50 (you've then got to ensure that $DISPLAY is sane, of course) Aug 19 08:31:04 hmm ok Aug 19 08:31:17 I am pretty new on this, you're warned ;) Aug 19 08:32:10 like I said, this is entirely a guess - based on non-N900 chroot/X experience Aug 19 08:32:51 and how does such a xephyr command looks like, to start it? Aug 19 08:34:48 when I use the graphical icon, I get an message for easy lxde and that I need to click 'ok' to grab the keybd Aug 19 08:34:55 but then the screen turns black Aug 19 08:36:12 sounds like you need more help than I can give Aug 19 08:37:00 * jack_lt has financial problems too Aug 19 09:12:57 if I delete genfstab.awk can I use my own static fstab? Aug 19 09:13:22 Make sure you're backed up before you try it Aug 19 09:13:42 robbiethe1st: I have just taken delivery of a brand spanking new N900 Aug 19 09:13:58 I want to get the filesystem *perfect* before I install all my shit Aug 19 09:15:31 Can I for example delete the .maps directory from Mydocs, re create it on /opt then mount bind it into Mydocs? Aug 19 09:16:01 or is there some fat32 thing that I dont know about? Aug 19 09:17:05 heres one. Do you think I could install grub onto Mydocs and use the N900 as a USB boot device for a PC? Aug 19 09:22:20 the latter one... I don't know. I don't think so, though - the filesystem module exposes a "fake" MBR etc... Aug 19 09:22:39 Booting off the SD card, however is definitely possible Aug 19 09:22:51 robbiethe1st: just found a video on youtube pf some bro booting buntu mint Aug 19 09:23:16 Yes. Just install it to your SD card and it'll work Aug 19 09:23:33 ...interesting Aug 19 09:24:30 now, what is the best distro to boot? Aug 19 09:25:50 No clue, but you can use MultiSystem and boot any number of distros Aug 19 09:26:01 I know. Aug 19 09:26:27 I'd go with Debian XFCE or LXDE Aug 19 09:26:34 lightweight = quicker boot Aug 19 09:26:35 what would be kinky would be repartitioning and flashing another N900 form an N900. Aug 19 09:28:03 robbiethe1st: almost certainly, however I dont want a general purpose distro. Just somthing that will allow me to fix filesystems/re-partition/burn CDs/dump disk images of broken partitions/connect to the web. Aug 19 09:28:54 Morning, all Aug 19 09:28:56 I would go with Debian LXDE or Puppy, then install the bits you need Aug 19 09:29:06 that way you have the tools *you* want/need Aug 19 09:30:07 i'd go with sysrescuecd Aug 19 09:49:35 lxde is better than xfce Aug 19 09:50:12 ROX-Desktop > else Aug 19 09:53:10 fvwm & xterm should me enough for everyone Aug 19 09:53:22 rox is a great idea Aug 19 09:53:40 not a new idea Aug 19 09:53:45 but a great idea Aug 19 09:53:53 automagical application bundles and stuff Aug 19 10:14:01 Does anyone know how to get NAT Transversal working on 3G for something useful like ssh? Aug 19 10:14:42 with own kernel I guess Aug 19 10:15:02 oops wrong channel, sorry :) Aug 19 10:18:28 This script works on my vps, but doesn't on T-Mobile's 3G network... http://www.rubyinside.com/skype-style-firewall-busting-with-ruby-and-udp-399.html Aug 19 10:19:56 is it any different on 3g than other NATs? Aug 19 10:22:26 ShadowJK: isn't it an ISP problem in that case? Aug 19 10:22:55 ShadowJK: It seems so. The script works even on one of the servers at work, but not on the N900. Aug 19 10:23:46 chem|st, yes? Aug 19 10:23:56 well, T-Mobile probably won't let me open any ports even if I called their support number.. Aug 19 10:24:05 I mean, if your ISP puts you behind a NAT, that's definitely the ISP restricting your internet connectivity Aug 19 10:24:49 it's not about "opening ports", if you're behind NAT you don't have an IP address Aug 19 10:25:01 ShadowJK: AFAIK, most mobile carriers put you behind a NAT Aug 19 10:25:25 AT&T US does the same... not sure about the other providors Aug 19 10:25:31 Could be Aug 19 10:25:50 Any way around it? Aug 19 10:26:16 ShadowJK: does your carrier put you behind a NAT? Aug 19 10:26:19 no Aug 19 10:26:31 Which carrier? not in the US I presume? Aug 19 10:26:35 no not in the US Aug 19 10:27:24 that script will never work for ssh Aug 19 10:27:33 ShadowJK: true, but it's a start. Aug 19 10:27:46 still curious, which carrier do you have? Aug 19 10:27:55 Saunalahti/Elisa in Finland Aug 19 10:28:05 they give out seemingly unlimited number of public IPs with no NAT Aug 19 10:28:35 Ah. Nice. American carriers aren't so generous.... Aug 19 10:28:46 For example I can have N900 itself on 3g with its own IP, and share internet connectivity over bluetooth to my laptop, and my laptop gets its own public IP with no NAT :P Aug 19 10:29:15 I could just run autossh on my N900 to my server, but that will drain battery. Aug 19 10:29:44 ShadowJK: my laptop just gets another NAT'd IP. >_> Aug 19 10:30:10 I actually use openvpn to my server. iirc I've got it configured for 30s keep-alives, which does reduce battery life on 2g to about a day Aug 19 10:30:46 I wonder if T-Mobile is still offering their ipv6 trial... they probably are giving out public IPs on that. Aug 19 10:32:01 ShadowJK: I keep my N900 on 3G, which does get better battery life when it's idle, but if I do anything that's bandwidth-intensive, the battery goes rapidly. Aug 19 10:33:26 Hmm... http://maemo-experience.blogspot.com/2010/01/n900-hack-dynamic-dns-update.html Aug 19 10:33:41 I think I actually hate T-Mobile now. :P Aug 19 10:38:12 xnt14: actually bandwidth isn't the issue with 3G, it's frequency of transaction entities. Each data transfer, whether in or out, causes some heavy penalty on power consumption, i.e. bites out a certain chunk of energy from your battery Aug 19 10:38:36 Is there a way to run android-apps in maemo? Aug 19 10:38:53 xnt14: this is because on 3G the TX will stay active for some time even after sending/receiving a singley byte Aug 19 10:39:57 see http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption#2G_data.2C_short_pings ff Aug 19 10:40:26 DocScrutinizer: So even running something that's very bandwidth-efficient would still kill the battery? Aug 19 10:40:38 yes Aug 19 10:41:03 wait Aug 19 10:41:17 unless transfers are bundled and occur only occasionally, in chunks Aug 19 10:41:28 howcome it get ~100% better battery life while online on messengers with 2g? Aug 19 10:41:41 100% is not an exaggeration Aug 19 10:42:00 mece: see my explanation above Aug 19 10:42:39 xnt14: did u consider reverse ssh? Aug 19 10:42:54 DocScrutinizer: I see... Aug 19 10:43:14 selvä Aug 19 10:43:18 unlike 3G the 2G energy consumption has no penalty for starting a TX event. Rather on 2G energy consumption is rather proportional to data volume transferred Aug 19 10:43:31 DocScrutinizer, nice.. Aug 19 10:43:33 Sicelo: yes, but I would prefer a public IP. I can't reverse ssh to a school computer for example.. Aug 19 10:43:43 ok how long is the 3g stayalive time? Aug 19 10:44:07 DocScrutinizer: so autossh on 2G would have much better battery life, right? Aug 19 10:44:08 It depends if it kicks up into 3.5 Aug 19 10:44:13 If not, a few seconds Aug 19 10:44:25 two levels, one in the (sub)second range, the other like several seconds Aug 19 10:44:29 I catually need to know this because I'm developing a thing that needs to poll over http Aug 19 10:44:31 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption Aug 19 10:44:38 s/catually/actually/ Aug 19 10:44:38 mece meant: I actually need to know this because I'm developing a thing that needs to poll over http Aug 19 10:45:18 good morning Aug 19 10:46:15 How often poll? Aug 19 10:46:25 Termana: moin Aug 19 10:46:31 And how much data Aug 19 10:46:58 You need to be quiet for over 10s before you get much power saving from 3g Aug 19 10:47:12 SpeedEvil, let's say the data would be regular http headers + say 100 bytes or so. Aug 19 10:47:24 60s will probably get around 15mA - 1%/hour use. Aug 19 10:47:31 it's a hash and gps coordinates in text format Aug 19 10:47:36 How often? Aug 19 10:47:48 fast. 1-5s Aug 19 10:47:56 That's going to hurt Aug 19 10:47:59 that's ok. Aug 19 10:48:02 bigtime! Aug 19 10:48:09 You're looking at 20% or so an hour on 3G Aug 19 10:48:10 it's meant for short periods Aug 19 10:48:11 also keep in mind TCP is a protocol with handshake (and GPRS afaik has its own handshake for all data), so even receiving data cranks up your GSM TX to send the ACK/whatever Aug 19 10:48:20 i'd say 5-15 minutes max Aug 19 10:48:26 Then it's not an issue Aug 19 10:48:48 hah, not an issue? Aug 19 10:48:59 lol Aug 19 10:49:23 I'd guess 4..8 times 15min eats thru your battery Aug 19 10:49:29 a stream would be better, but that complicates things Aug 19 10:49:37 SpeedEvil: in big cities with reliable 3G network, if the network is just a bit weak you get 40% drain in an hour without pwsaving Aug 19 10:50:49 2h SIP talk was my max with freshly charged bat Aug 19 10:51:21 when it was new... Aug 19 10:51:27 (handshake, TX) especially nice when you got public IP and nothing stops random far ends to ping your device. Each ping will bite a chunk out of your battery life Aug 19 10:51:30 Admittedly, IIRC my tests were done with a good 3G signal. Aug 19 10:51:43 Though about as far from 'city' as you can get. Aug 19 10:51:49 SpeedEvil: that was with good signal... Aug 19 10:52:33 2h SIP uses the higher power mode, and will be of the order of 1/4/hour Aug 19 10:52:55 The above do not count CPU activity beyond bare minimums Aug 19 10:53:34 k Aug 19 10:54:16 Signing up for the T-Mobile ipv6 trial. :) Aug 19 10:54:24 would guess like DocScrutinizer to have 4-8 times 15mins possible with any 3g signal Aug 19 10:54:43 mece: Why are you doing this - rather than polling less often? Aug 19 10:54:57 This way, I'll get a public ipv6 IP. which is better than a NATed ip. Aug 19 10:57:40 xnt14: [2011-08-19 12:48:42] (handshake, TX) especially nice when you got public IP and nothing stops random far ends to ping your device. Each ping will bite a chunk out of your battery life Aug 19 10:58:32 Now I just need to run my router through an ipv6 tunnel broker.... Aug 19 10:58:39 xnt14: a very special DoS attack. Just ping your IP to see device go down with flat battery after 90min Aug 19 10:58:57 DocScrutinizer: I don't mind. I can always switch to the ipv4 APN... Aug 19 10:59:12 not with flat battery :-D Aug 19 10:59:40 so stating a publicly visible IP is always better than NAT is just incorrect Aug 19 11:00:12 I usually keep my N900 plugged in... battery life during conference calls is terrible anyways. Aug 19 11:00:30 mhm Aug 19 11:00:40 I'm willing to accept the risks of having a public IP.... Aug 19 11:00:42 anyway bbl o/ Aug 19 11:01:11 * DocScrutinizer heads off to fix some borked PC of some 'customer' Aug 19 11:01:44 Bye... Aug 19 11:02:13 I should go to sleep now. I've been up all night and I have to wake up in an hour.. Aug 19 11:02:36 Good 'night', everyone. Aug 19 11:17:16 So, the community has lost roughly 40% of its contributors Aug 19 11:17:22 There are no devices planned Aug 19 11:17:32 No new OS planned for the current devices. Aug 19 11:17:56 Yet, we still want a new council? Aug 19 11:17:59 Whatfor, exactly? Aug 19 11:18:04 Discussing with Nokia? Pfffff. Aug 19 11:18:10 Uniting the community? Pfffff. Aug 19 11:21:49 moo all Aug 19 11:22:24 BTW, HP is [finally] kaput Aug 19 11:22:27 And so is WebOS. Aug 19 11:22:55 SpeedEvil, sorry was afk a bit. I want realtimeish position updates Aug 19 11:23:32 Which leaves us with what? iOS, Android, andWP Aug 19 11:24:08 RIM Aug 19 11:24:13 bada Aug 19 11:24:19 No, RIM is also dead Aug 19 11:24:25 Does MeeGo on the N900 or any other phone work? Aug 19 11:24:28 Bada is just an asian Symbian clone Aug 19 11:24:54 Symbian is like a zombie, somehow still not dead Aug 19 11:25:05 Meego is also dead btw, some people just haven't accepted it yet Aug 19 11:25:22 meego handset or all of meego Aug 19 11:25:29 Symbian will be dead as soon as all of its original managers from Nokia find new jobs Aug 19 11:26:24 MeeGo apparently does work on N900, but I'm unsure of its current status with video chip acceleration. The last I checked only certain builds have proper gpu acceleration Aug 19 11:26:52 what I mean is even with Nokia trying to kill it, Symbian is refuses to die Aug 19 11:28:01 Symbian probably won't die for quite sometime, it has already gain a cult within the asian communities (note the various cloned phones running symbian with various skins on top) Aug 19 11:29:12 and they aren't going to play the Microsoft game out in Asia Aug 19 11:29:17 RST38h: why "finally" ? Aug 19 11:31:22 remember that Symbian one stage held a very large social acceptance, so these things take sometime for the markets to re-adapt. Contrary to all that, I'm sure at the rate of hacked Symbian to run on exotic phones coming out of asia may also die quite quickly as already have started picking up android for tablets. Aug 19 11:33:02 so what's our options for a decent OS in the future? Try and turn android into a true proper Linux again? Aug 19 11:34:36 turning android into proper linux isn't going to be likely. Once the purpose of the OS has been established and has been kept in that style it'll be unlikely for them to make dramatic changes Aug 19 11:34:42 or go the "fringe path" and cling with maemo, adopt SHR? Aug 19 11:35:12 psycho_oreos: "They" won't make the changes. You'd have to fork it. Aug 19 11:35:22 exactly Aug 19 11:35:55 Fusion Garage did fork Android, it's possible ... Aug 19 11:36:11 derf, in that case it'll be loads of fun times ahead as well. Though I'm sure nobody here actually has a proper crystal ball to see the future of android Aug 19 11:36:13 but ... why not a proper Linux distribution then ... Aug 19 11:36:14 Doc: I would say, use stock Linux as the base, add Android to it Aug 19 11:36:22 Doc: as compatiblity layer Aug 19 11:36:52 sounds reasonable as a first approach Aug 19 11:36:59 * RST38h strokes his crystal balls, makes a prediction about Android Aug 19 11:37:19 RST38h: you mean, Meego + Dalvik ? ;) Aug 19 11:37:20 where stock linux is any debian based distro, e.g maemo Aug 19 11:38:03 chouchoune: sounds like our best bet to keep something decent alive Aug 19 11:38:07 Android meaning the kernel, and Linux meaning... the kernel? Aug 19 11:38:27 double-kernels Aug 19 11:38:34 No Aug 19 11:38:35 eh? Aug 19 11:38:41 Linux kernel, linux libs,linux userland Aug 19 11:38:44 dealing with android doesn't actually stop there, there's also android devices with locked bootloaders, they'll probably be as much fun to hack with as what Symbian phones previously had Aug 19 11:38:48 two kernels enter, no users win Aug 19 11:38:55 with alien-dalvik on top Aug 19 11:38:55 Just dalvik and android java libs on top Aug 19 11:39:05 kinda like an emulator Aug 19 11:39:15 then say dalvik, there isn't anything android about that :p Aug 19 11:39:30 android is either kernel, or UX Aug 19 11:39:50 and then a few shitty apps :p ;) Aug 19 11:39:57 flaili: if you would like to discuss therminology, Wikipedia is going to be a better place than this channel Aug 19 11:40:15 moo ab Aug 19 11:40:19 hrhrhr Aug 19 11:40:21 RST38h, Aug 19 11:41:09 the question then returns to, what linux "userland" are you imagining Aug 19 11:41:51 I'd be interested in general collabora* take on the whole thing Aug 19 11:42:54 ab: Have you heard it? WebOS is out. And so is HP, as a hardware manufacturer Aug 19 11:43:08 flailingmonkey: isn't that pretty obvious? a "clean" userland, where linux still is linux Aug 19 11:43:24 bug bummer, was suprised of how fast they killed webOS, specially with the whole html5 web bubble beeing still around Aug 19 11:43:30 * RST38h wonders if there are Carly Fiorina's voodoo dolls on the market Aug 19 11:43:46 where the men are men, the women are men, and even the bugs are men Aug 19 11:44:10 im curious how bb's qnx will hit the market Aug 19 11:44:21 in general, they make quite decent/stable products Aug 19 11:44:28 RST38h, Ari said they continue with WebOS full steam Aug 19 11:44:41 but on a private basis, right? Aug 19 11:44:45 i feel so bad for Ari Aug 19 11:44:49 RST38h, apparently, Apotheker said they have options on table, including licensing. Aug 19 11:44:49 x29: it will hit the market quite aking to a spittle Aug 19 11:45:14 RST38h, so products are discontinued but development is not yet disbanded Aug 19 11:45:15 ab: Who will license i :) Aug 19 11:45:20 it Aug 19 11:45:23 ? Aug 19 11:45:30 samsung, when they get rid of bada, lol Aug 19 11:45:32 *scnr* Aug 19 11:45:44 RST38h, have you seen fake SElop's statement? Aug 19 11:45:45 hopefully someone that can actually put it in vaguely nice hardware Aug 19 11:45:51 ab: it is pretty much the same kind of "diplomacy" Nokia applied to Symbian and Meego =( Aug 19 11:46:09 ab: No. His real statements are weird enough though. Aug 19 11:46:51 https://twitter.com/#!/ceoStephenElop/status/104295921260572672 Aug 19 11:47:39 x29a: there's this raster's linux pending from Samsung - got amazingly quiet about that thing lately. Usually raster came here (and elsewhere) on a regular schedule spreading teaser rants about that new acme OS of his/Samsung's to come RSN Aug 19 11:47:42 And mjg59 from LinuxCon: "This morning's keynote was on HP's commitment to WebOS. Sucks to be that guy now." Aug 19 11:49:09 ab: ahhahahaha (about ceoStephenElop twit) Aug 19 11:49:13 docscrutinizer: i dont get samsung. but gazillions into promo and dev of bada, then present quite shitty OS, barely talk about it, infinit long update cycles. y oh y? Aug 19 11:49:14 Poor Ari... Aug 19 11:49:34 x29: What exactlu don't you understand? Aug 19 11:50:02 according to raster bada is a hickup Aug 19 11:50:07 x29: They copied Symbian APIs, with graphics stolen from iPhone, Maemo,and Android. They put the result into their feature phones Aug 19 11:50:30 x29: Because the thing is so horrible to developfor(Symbian!) nobody developed for it Aug 19 11:51:14 Also, with all the emphasis on Android (Samsung is THE leading Android phone maker), nobody needed Bada any more. Aug 19 11:51:21 I tried to develop for symbian, but they wouldn't give me a key so i could, you know, actually run the programs I code Aug 19 11:51:32 My feeling was always that bada is their internal attempt to level different R&D departments and give internal application developers some stable environment to run their apps regardless what OS has won particular product development Aug 19 11:52:00 ab: Maybe, but in either case it all got crumbled by the ANdroid Aug 19 11:52:16 ~seen raster Aug 19 11:52:26 raster is currently on #webos-internals (1h 45m 47s) #meego (1h 45m 47s), last said: ':)'. Aug 19 11:52:40 from that perspective bada totally makes sense as it started much earlier than they got to Android -- at allowed to leverage R&D designs which were developed for low end models Aug 19 11:52:40 oooooh, on #meego?? Aug 19 11:52:41 RST38h: why go that way in the first place? android is suitable for feature phones as well. or whatever proprietary shit they used before. i dont get why they did spend such a huge amount on bada and then let it rott to death Aug 19 11:53:12 x29a: I am sure you can answer your own question. Aug 19 11:53:49 im afraid i cant, hence the "i dont udnerstand" part Aug 19 11:53:49 ab: probably had a few competing departments too Aug 19 11:54:01 RST38h, they do have, that's my understanding Aug 19 11:54:11 ab: Android obviously winning because of the Samsung's overall strategy of copying stuff, not inventing it Aug 19 11:54:32 RST38h: and please use your tab key to do autocomplete (full) of my nick, that way i get a highlight Aug 19 11:54:59 RST38h, Android is winning for Samsung because they get R&D investment shared with Google and others, doing if not free ride but very close to that Aug 19 11:55:16 ab: Of course Aug 19 11:55:46 ab: On the other hand, all android phones look andfeel the same, so there is no brand loyalty or anything like that Aug 19 11:56:02 ab: Which probably satisfies Samsung, a well known producer of generic goods Aug 19 11:56:14 But may not satisfy others. Aug 19 11:56:20 ab: you dont get that feeling by copying ios/android and call it bada Aug 19 11:56:45 RST38h: isn't that why "Sense UI" and such get developpd? Aug 19 11:56:50 ab: that pant-pissing quote, ironically, is coming true Aug 19 11:57:20 Nido: same "Sense UI" users go to such lengths to disable in favor of Android's default UI? Aug 19 11:57:46 RST38h: that was for you, not ab, sorry Aug 19 11:58:10 RST38h: probably. I'm not saing it is "better", just "not generic android" Aug 19 11:58:25 well, some do. sense ui is actually not that bad, compared to some skins Aug 19 11:59:44 ab: http://www.asymco.com/2011/07/29/apple-captured-two-thirds-of-available-mobile-phone-profits-in-q2/ Aug 19 11:59:58 ab: check out profits by Android phonemakers Aug 19 12:00:22 ab: Isn't it cute, how closely they copy the profits of Android Market participants?:)) Aug 19 12:00:52 x29a, bada started much earlier than Samsung got into Android. Aug 19 12:01:18 but android was there, so it was clearly a decision someone made based on information Aug 19 12:01:28 * RST38h sighs at x29a Aug 19 12:01:37 just /ignore me Aug 19 12:01:42 Obviously unaware of how corporate decisions are made Aug 19 12:01:49 x29a, do you know anything about mobile industry developments? :) Aug 19 12:02:15 no, im an end user, obviously Aug 19 12:03:44 what's your point RST38h ? Aug 19 12:04:01 there was a political fight at Samsung and the pro-android won ? Aug 19 12:04:49 and Bada-people were let to play with their toy to avoid a clash ? Aug 19 12:06:28 chouchoune, Android is still not ready to go to low-end devices as Samsung understands them, this is where bada helps right now. In future many things will move Android, I'm sure. Of course, if raster wouldn't get his joker played well Aug 19 12:07:39 ab: I'm not sure about that ... Bada participates in the global believing that Samsung can do things by itself Aug 19 12:08:16 if Samsung keeps Bada, they can still say "we can do our own too" Aug 19 12:08:28 its spread and success with the very end-users speaks for it Aug 19 12:08:41 im curious how the 2.0 version will do Aug 19 13:34:29 villager: AYT? Aug 19 13:57:08 http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/HP-pulls-plug-on-WebOS/ <-- erm Aug 19 13:58:22 ruskie: that was expected Aug 19 13:59:20 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/19/apple_samsung/ <-- you're joking right? Aug 19 13:59:34 nope Aug 19 14:00:05 I dearly hope whatever court that letter was sent to sees sense and gives apple a big giant get fucked Aug 19 14:00:24 and that samsung stop all parts supplies to apple Aug 19 14:01:10 nid0, that last part would be a tad hard... contracts and all that ya know Aug 19 14:01:49 you'll probably find apple already switched suppliers before sending the letter :P Aug 19 14:02:27 im sure any half decent lawyer could conjure up a force majeure clause to allow samsung to get out of the contracts when apple are suing samsung over devices using their own parts Aug 19 14:02:43 that's not force majeure Aug 19 14:03:49 read what I said Aug 19 14:04:12 well, contracts last only for so long Aug 19 14:04:37 and after they do something like that to samsung they other manufacturers may not want to sign new one Aug 19 14:05:23 there also arent all that many manufactures going that can supply the high-value parts samsung do in the volumes they do, so apple's list of alternatives is probably thin to begin with Aug 19 14:05:49 TI can do it Aug 19 14:10:53 does everyone have a very disgusting front camera on n900 ? Aug 19 14:10:59 I used a app called mirror Aug 19 14:11:08 yeah, it's crap Aug 19 14:11:10 nobody uses it Aug 19 14:11:14 People started teasing me saying even 90's wont have that bad camera Aug 19 14:11:43 n900 has only one camera Aug 19 14:11:45 front camera Aug 19 14:11:52 back * Aug 19 14:12:07 thing on the front is just a toy Aug 19 14:13:32 but then, 2 years ago was around the time a lot of other smartphones didnt even include front cameras, so although it's shit at least it's there Aug 19 14:14:07 it's a toy not a camera Aug 19 14:16:24 does anyone know if there's an up to date set of instructions for using the extras-devel version of sync-evolution (which now supports CalDav?) Aug 19 14:33:48 LarsN: you should probably have explained what "ayt" means, anyway Aug 19 14:34:11 villager: sorry, Are You There :) Aug 19 14:34:40 * LarsN made a poor assumption that the term we use in the office was in the standard lexicon :) Aug 19 14:34:46 * LarsN isn't very smart apparently. Aug 19 14:36:25 LarsN: well, I guess I'm here... (not there...) Aug 19 14:37:03 villager: heh. Is there an updated set of docs on how to "start from nothing" and end up with a working caldav sync? Aug 19 14:37:36 a lot of the things I'm reading date back over a year, and it's obvious things have changed quite a bit. Aug 19 14:38:17 LarsN: have you installed the syncevolution-frontend also? makes stuff easier (provided it works) Aug 19 14:38:32 villager: I have not. I suppose I can do that now though :) Aug 19 14:39:02 there was a new syncevolution release yesterday with some caldav bugfixes, I suppose i'll try to put that into extras-devel soon Aug 19 14:39:25 but you can set it up now anyway Aug 19 14:39:46 I'll grab the front end and see if that makes life somewhat less confusing Aug 19 14:40:05 villager: that should sync with google calendars as well as things like SOGo I'd assume? Aug 19 14:40:32 if you just want google calendar sync, erminig's prolly the easiest option Aug 19 14:40:49 LarsN: yeah, the frontend gives you a nice gui and a helpful wizard for setting up syncml and caldav stuff Aug 19 14:41:16 LarsN: there's a google calendar template the wizard allows you to use, yes Aug 19 14:41:30 awesome. Aug 19 14:41:57 I'll let you know if I run into any strange problems once I get things updated enough to install. Aug 19 14:45:36 villager: what is the best option to use iCal files available over https and webdav? Aug 19 14:46:32 nid0: I think he wanted other caldav servers as well (SOGo)... can erminig handle those, or just google? Aug 19 14:47:44 it's just google unfortunately Aug 19 14:51:14 any chance for just iCal files? I use them with Thunderbird ... Aug 19 14:51:22 edheldil: on n900, I guess the syncevolution (version 1.1.99.x) is the only option I know of for webdav Aug 19 14:51:43 thank you Aug 19 14:53:01 edheldil: for just ical over https, I don't know of any way to do it Aug 19 14:54:05 (well, the syncevolution command-line interface has a way of importing an ical, I think, but it's not the most elegant way...) Aug 19 14:55:07 villager: it's webdav over https sorry. So no problem Aug 19 16:29:15 nothing quite like sym linking /var/cache/apt/archives to /media/mmc1/archives so you can dist-upgrade Aug 19 16:29:42 lots of left over cruft from previous installs. I suppose I should have done the two step re-flash. Aug 19 16:32:11 dist-upgrade to what? Aug 19 16:32:18 you should not dist-upgrade maemo Aug 19 16:36:48 prolly not the best chan to ask this....but here goes Aug 19 16:36:52 anyone got an opinion whats better....geforce 555m or ati hd 6550 ? Aug 19 16:37:05 tryin to decide on new lapdog Aug 19 16:48:28 why don't you try asking that in ##hardware channel? Aug 19 17:05:11 hi i have a problem with apps / repository on maemo Aug 19 17:07:36 haha Aug 19 17:07:46 n8 or e7 is what nokia care will replace my n900 with Aug 19 17:07:52 if i send it in for repair Aug 19 17:08:31 f... that. Aug 19 17:08:58 usb ? Aug 19 17:09:05 yep Aug 19 17:09:13 ;( Aug 19 17:09:15 someone, lupine_85, was able to get them to give him an N900 :) Aug 19 17:09:21 some people here demanded an N900, and got one finally. Other take the N8 or E7 and sell it and rebuy an N900. Aug 19 17:09:44 yea id take e7 buy 2 n900 Aug 19 17:09:45 well i sure as shit aint gona be fobbed off with sdome lesser device Aug 19 17:09:48 fusi, they will replace it with an N900 Aug 19 17:09:55 you just have to insist Aug 19 17:10:04 thanks, will do Aug 19 17:10:05 and potentially threaten small claims Aug 19 17:10:06 demand it. or sell the n8 get n900 Aug 19 17:10:12 don't do that Aug 19 17:10:18 i will demand Aug 19 17:10:23 u can get 400-500eu for new e7 Aug 19 17:10:32 want a working n900 Aug 19 17:10:33 if you accept->sell->buy, you could well end up with one lacking any warranty at all Aug 19 17:10:35 buys u 2- refurbished n900 Aug 19 17:10:36 not a sdecond hand one either Aug 19 17:10:41 2+ Aug 19 17:10:52 so when it breaks later, you're left with no remedy Aug 19 17:10:55 E7 on amazon.de : 360 �, don't think so casketizer. Aug 19 17:11:12 calling them again now Aug 19 17:11:24 fusi, are you in the EU? Aug 19 17:11:29 uk Aug 19 17:11:33 good stuff Aug 19 17:11:40 you're covered by a 2-year european limited warranty Aug 19 17:11:41 i sold one for 427 on egay 2-3weeks ago Aug 19 17:11:48 pretty sure we've got laws for this sort of stuff yea Aug 19 17:11:55