**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Aug 20 02:59:56 2011 Aug 20 03:05:55 just bought one dont even want a tablet lol Aug 20 03:06:13 $90 USD shipped wh not Aug 20 03:06:47 * SpeedEvil wishes they'd ship outside the USA. Aug 20 03:06:50 Where from? Aug 20 03:07:06 hp Aug 20 03:07:12 official site Aug 20 03:07:27 even the palm pre 2 Aug 20 03:07:30 $49 Aug 20 03:07:59 didnt think they would liquidate this fast Aug 20 03:08:18 i still want a pre 3 for my gf, she's using a pixi at the moment Aug 20 03:09:15 on hp site i still see touchpad 16GB going for $400... Aug 20 03:09:35 follow instructions @ a fatwallet/ slickdeal site Aug 20 03:09:43 i even called HP and they said $99 Aug 20 03:10:00 they are open 24/7 to take orders Aug 20 03:10:17 but i ordered online Aug 20 03:10:37 * SpeedEvil tries hp.co.uk. Aug 20 03:10:43 they only ship US though Aug 20 03:11:03 all retail will soon follow most likely Aug 20 03:11:08 so only time Aug 20 03:11:13 16G 349 pounds, 32 429 pounds. Aug 20 03:11:20 UK hp store Aug 20 03:11:32 So $500/$600 Aug 20 03:11:57 i'm too dense to find these deal sites, but alright Aug 20 03:12:40 just call if you're too lazy Aug 20 03:12:50 wait is long though...30 min for me Aug 20 03:13:19 javispedro: For something this large, shipping will be unpleasant. Aug 20 03:13:43 here we go! http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/19/let-the-liquidation-begin-hps-16gb-touchpad-on-sale-for-99/ Aug 20 03:14:15 $150 for 32GB HP TouchPad Aug 20 03:17:02 palm pre3 might be cancelled Aug 20 03:17:10 quote engadget Aug 20 03:17:15 but apparently AT&T was launching pre3, and has now completely cancelled Aug 20 03:17:28 quote webOSroundup: http://www.webosroundup.com/2011/08/pre-3-orders-for-att-in-the-u-s-cancelled/ Aug 20 03:17:37 ooo liquidate that pre3 stock Aug 20 03:17:57 did they have stock yet? Aug 20 03:18:01 299 pounds still on UK store (palm pre3) Aug 20 03:18:11 but there must have been stock created Aug 20 03:18:14 and for at&t bands Aug 20 03:18:16 ... Aug 20 03:20:19 they were already packaging Aug 20 03:22:18 damn it Aug 20 03:22:25 16gb $99 oos Aug 20 03:23:54 they've got to sell those pre3's some where. they're not damaged, and it would be more expensive to destroy them than sell them even at $50 Aug 20 03:24:18 most likely will be liquidated at $99 Aug 20 03:24:29 Especially given the maker is exiting the marketplace. Aug 20 03:24:44 So it doesn't care about the effect of the firesale on the reputation. Aug 20 03:30:30 yah Aug 20 03:30:58 geez what a great price ips/snap dual Aug 20 03:31:45 my girlfriend will be getting a new phone if they liquidate those pre3's. she never even uses apps, the only things that matter for her are e-mail, web browsing and maps Aug 20 03:32:12 and honestly, it does make me think that there is a sort of app market bubble at the moment Aug 20 03:49:26 * javispedro lols at "bough one for each bathroom, and for each TV as remote!" Aug 20 03:51:25 HP's 16 GB TouchPad on sale for $99 Aug 20 03:51:34 I wonder if we can put another OS in that device Aug 20 03:51:45 because that's some nice price Aug 20 03:51:55 http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/19/let-the-liquidation-begin-hps-16gb-touchpad-on-sale-for-99/ Aug 20 03:53:42 i don't even think there's a reason to but another OS on the device Aug 20 03:54:07 I'd love to get it meego'd. Aug 20 03:54:08 But. Aug 20 03:54:11 my gf has been using a pixi for about a year, and has never been interested in apps Aug 20 03:54:13 yeah that would be great Aug 20 03:54:21 At that price, I'd be buying just as a web browser Aug 20 03:54:32 (in the UK, hp has it listed at $500 still) Aug 20 03:54:42 it's a nice price only for an ocasional browsing/email/IM and PDF/eBook reader Aug 20 03:54:46 enjoyable UX, solid OS and hardware specs make a bigger difference for her Aug 20 03:54:52 even if you stick with what's left of WebOS there Aug 20 03:55:01 and yeah, she only hits e-mail, web browsing and maps/GPS Aug 20 03:55:07 one for each bathroom! Aug 20 03:55:11 supposedly after this Saturday (tomorrow?) the cut price will be worldwide Aug 20 03:55:24 i really really want to get some dirt cheap pre3 Aug 20 03:55:25 note that nowhere says worldwide Aug 20 03:55:35 technically the US firesale starts tomorrow Aug 20 03:55:39 Scorcerer: Source? Aug 20 03:55:41 but they're already sold by out Aug 20 03:55:43 well but 99% chances are next week that price is worldwide Aug 20 03:55:54 s/sold by out/sold out by now/ Aug 20 03:55:55 javispedro meant: but they're already sold out by now Aug 20 03:56:03 heh ok Aug 20 03:56:05 nice bot Aug 20 03:56:22 I wonder if dealing with carriers was a major pain for HP... Aug 20 03:56:25 Depending on quantities, it may make sense to carry on pricing it high for some countries. Aug 20 03:56:28 s/nice bot/totally a different thing/ Aug 20 03:56:28 Sc0rpius meant: totally a different thing Aug 20 03:56:37 It's possible that there may be very limited stocks in some countries. Aug 20 03:56:40 because they're really taking a dump over every carrier that stocked their stuff with this Aug 20 03:56:46 123456 Aug 20 03:56:55 s/^[1-3]+/ABC/ Aug 20 03:56:59 :( Aug 20 03:57:20 I think it only does very simple ones 1 1 1 Aug 20 03:57:24 s/1/one/ Aug 20 03:57:24 SpeedEvil meant: I think it only does very simple ones one 1 1 Aug 20 03:57:44 that's why I usually omit the trailing slash. Aug 20 03:57:52 yeah I can see Aug 20 03:58:07 I think the human brain is smart enough, no need for the stupid bot. Aug 20 03:58:22 anyway Aug 20 03:58:28 $99 it's damn good Aug 20 03:58:38 and maybe that will attract the hack scene to put another OS on it Aug 20 03:58:49 I even want one! Aug 20 03:59:02 don't even think mentioning Android. Aug 20 03:59:13 I already have an Android tablet Aug 20 03:59:19 which I really despise Aug 20 03:59:30 I thought it was great, but after a couple of months you learn to hate it Aug 20 03:59:32 you know what I'd put on TouchPad? Aug 20 03:59:43 webOS :p Aug 20 04:02:05 http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/hewlett-packard-hp-16gb-touchpad-with-wi-fi-16gb-wifi/10173116.aspx?path=24aa74e36d1cba4ce76fdd5a9f3298cfen02 Aug 20 04:02:14 check your local availablility, if you're in canada Aug 20 04:02:18 already sold out Aug 20 04:02:33 US best buy site is also "sold out online" and they aren't even reporting the price drop on the site Aug 20 04:03:02 I question the $99 Aug 20 04:03:07 It's ridiculously cheap Aug 20 04:03:24 Surely they'd have had reasonable volumes at $200 Aug 20 04:05:09 i don't know Aug 20 04:05:19 $100 make absolutely sure it is completely gone Aug 20 04:05:30 $200, probably would sell 90%? Aug 20 04:58:57 DocScrutinizer, I have an IPv6 address on my N900 now… how would I check the power draw of the 3G Radio? Aug 20 05:06:24 almost impossible afaik Aug 20 05:07:20 Then how were the values on the wiki obtained? Multimeter attached to the N900's hardware directly? Aug 20 05:12:34 no, but you can't tell for sure if that's really related to IPv6 IP Aug 20 05:13:26 of course you can check absolute power consumption for Phone Mode incl GPRS and for Tablet Mode Aug 20 05:13:39 use the script Aug 20 05:14:38 bq27200.sh Aug 20 05:27:23 DocScrutinizer, hmm, I'll give it a try. Aug 20 05:48:28 xnt14: the numbers were from the charge meter. Aug 20 05:48:51 I'd be astonished if there were significant differences between IPV4/6 Aug 20 06:00:01 SpeedEvil: not between IPv4/6 but between NATed and publicly ping'able IP Aug 20 06:02:34 another method to tell when OTA data traffic happens without ifconfig noticing it, was to attach one of those RF-exploiting LED batches to the phone Aug 20 06:03:56 oh - yeah Aug 20 06:04:15 There was an interesting report from OFCOM on those. Aug 20 06:04:30 there's actually a lot of ways how carrier could cause your GSM modem suck battery without anything you could do about or how you'd even notice it. See e.g. Aug 20 06:04:31 Unsurprisingly, they radiate rather a lot of harmonics. Aug 20 06:04:36 ~gsm-agps Aug 20 06:04:36 extra, extra, read all about it, rrlp is the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or http://security.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/RRLP Aug 20 06:08:27 publicly visible and pingable IP another idiocy that carriers can do which would possibly cause your battery go down after just hours Aug 20 06:09:29 poorly configured T3212 timer or C1/C2 BTS handover criteria yet another way to make you cry "my battery life sucks" Aug 20 06:11:43 SpeedEvil: indeed no surprise - actually those badges made my 6210 lose connection Aug 20 06:12:30 though there are electronically boosted battery-powered versions that should be way better wrt this Aug 20 06:12:31 Or just being in an unfortunate location. Aug 20 06:14:18 I dunno if any of those, whether dirt cheap or battery powered with electronics, is capable of doing GSM/WCDMA multiband Aug 20 06:15:06 i.o.w. I know those critters from back when 3G was no publicly known term Aug 20 06:24:45 DocScrutinizer: so publicly visible IP on mobile device is bad in what use Aug 20 06:26:05 flailingmonkey: publicly visible IP allows me to suck empty your battery in as little as 2..3h and there's nuttin you can do about it, you won't even notice what's going on Aug 20 06:26:28 all I have to do is pingflood your IP Aug 20 06:26:40 just by ping you mean, as network interface keeps waking up device Aug 20 06:27:44 because unless ICMP (or any incoming connection) is blocked at network level, device still has to wake up to receive packets, even if it ignores them...? Aug 20 06:27:51 yes Aug 20 06:27:56 not by waking up main processor, just by making modem crank up TX to send the ACK Aug 20 06:28:32 Not an ack at tcp/ip level, but at the lower level. Aug 20 06:28:34 there's an ACK on GPRS protocol level afaik Aug 20 06:30:33 and you'll not even notice that as the whole protocol stack runs on modem processor Aug 20 06:32:17 so the whole magic of those powersaver optimizers that tear down GPRS connection whenever it's not needed is not because GPRS login eats much power in itself, but only by stopping inbound unsolicited traffic Aug 20 06:38:38 So what are people thinking about the touchpad? Aug 20 06:38:41 Worth buying a few? Aug 20 06:39:05 morning gents, btw Aug 20 06:46:14 DocScrutinizer? Aug 20 06:46:33 touchpad? Aug 20 06:55:53 Moo, gentlemen Aug 20 06:56:02 How is suffering today? Any more news? Aug 20 07:13:49 HP's 16GB TouchPad on sale for $99 Aug 20 07:15:40 seems like its for US only Aug 20 07:15:52 Canada and US Aug 20 07:16:15 Also Pre3 launch on AT&T is cancelled Aug 20 07:16:22 can$?/ Aug 20 07:16:27 dunno Aug 20 07:16:27 well NAM markets only :p Aug 20 07:16:28 Or us$ in can Aug 20 07:16:49 aaah this touchpad Aug 20 07:16:51 * RST38h wonders if this whole thing will lead to an Atari2600 effect Aug 20 07:16:51 * SpeedEvil has been reloading the UK page. Aug 20 07:17:10 Still at 349 pounds (Around 550$) Aug 20 07:18:34 they are flying off the shelves Aug 20 07:19:03 ...if you're a published webOS developer, Microsoft's gonna give you whatever you need to be a Windows Phone developer, like free phones and dev tools. So says Brandon Watson, who runs Windows Phone's Developer Experience program. Aug 20 07:20:01 Same with Nokia developer. sort of Aug 20 07:20:36 At least, they were going to give me a year's free subscription to MS's app store or w/e Aug 20 07:20:47 same here Aug 20 07:20:59 but the amount of hoops to jump through, including giving your CC number, is too much Aug 20 07:21:06 wow Aug 20 07:21:07 they can keep their membership to themselves Aug 20 07:21:10 Same Aug 20 07:21:45 I, for one, have *no interest* in a Mobile OS that's not Linux based, and only a small interest in one without a full gnu toolset Aug 20 07:22:34 Well, I am more pragmatic about these things, having interest in whatever can generate meprofit Aug 20 07:22:48 Still, no idea why I should develop for WinPhone Aug 20 07:23:09 Also - a market with more players is more likely to have smaller ones than one with fewer. Aug 20 07:23:10 No way to turn profit there Aug 20 07:23:10 dont do that... Aug 20 07:23:15 Fair enough; I, on the other hand, don't expect to make any money - I'm doing it as a hobby. Aug 20 07:24:37 (keep their membership offers) indeed Aug 20 07:24:52 * DocScrutinizer goes bathroom, throwing up Aug 20 07:25:23 well Aug 20 07:25:30 if the touchpad drops to a 100eur Aug 20 07:25:33 I might get one Aug 20 07:25:40 just to see how hackable it is Aug 20 07:25:53 Yea Aug 20 07:26:34 might be a good platform to hack together a new ui Aug 20 07:27:38 crashanddie_: I stopped that habit. I now restrict my interest mostly to devices that I get for free, as otherwise I'd be broke all month and ran short on stowage space in my attic Aug 20 07:27:51 sure Aug 20 07:28:24 But I haven't bought anything stupid Aug 20 07:28:40 and at least, with this one, I'd know _beforehand_ that there will be no support nor anything Aug 20 07:28:46 unlike the N* Aug 20 07:29:15 Oh, and this one made me laugh: http://eatliver.com/i.php?n=7638 Aug 20 07:32:01 bbl, torchwood Aug 20 07:32:05 Aug 20 07:32:08 looking now... appears to be all out of stock? Aug 20 07:32:29 out of stock online Aug 20 07:32:40 will that price be in stores too? Aug 20 07:32:40 if you had to take losses on your own stock, you wouldn't want to pay for any shipping Aug 20 07:32:47 yeah it's going to have to be Aug 20 07:32:54 with most places price matching and all Aug 20 07:33:09 maybe i'll head over to best buy tomorrow and see if they're doing it Aug 20 07:33:14 99 bucks, why not Aug 20 07:33:23 antman8969: that'll be too late imo Aug 20 07:33:23 and there was lots of stock already in stores, so i expect in person visits to stores will be fruitful Aug 20 07:33:38 qole picked up a couple 32gb models Aug 20 07:33:42 the 16gb models were sold out Aug 20 07:33:50 150 is still worth it Aug 20 07:33:53 after all Aug 20 07:34:02 if I had a full android tablet, 99% of my time would be web browsing Aug 20 07:34:05 well, 150 is nearly worth it for 32gb of flash, haha Aug 20 07:34:24 sad shit Aug 20 07:34:33 don't know Aug 20 07:34:39 And they are not open sourcing the webos, right? =) Aug 20 07:34:44 At least they're giving them away, rather than burning it Aug 20 07:34:53 ^^ Aug 20 07:38:44 hp touchpad is alright Aug 20 07:38:57 but i really really want some of that pre3 stock Aug 20 07:39:15 AT&T cancels its bulk orders, so where will the units go Aug 20 07:40:00 I don't get why people like the pre3? Am I missing something? Aug 20 07:40:25 in my case, i want to upgrade my gf from a pixi :p Aug 20 07:40:49 lol Aug 20 07:41:03 but having used the pixi, i can see how the UX would be nice with good hardware. pixi is like a 2 legged dog Aug 20 07:43:25 watching os tour right now to decide if I'll want it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF0om_FxIhY Aug 20 07:43:30 mobiletechreview <3 Aug 20 07:45:12 HP is killing webOS, I guess people wanting to buy equipments that come with webOS　in a bid to secure their love with webOS :p Aug 20 07:45:59 the tablet is getting bought up because it's amazing for the price it is going for Aug 20 07:46:15 I would buy one at $99 as a movie/mp3/ebook reader only Aug 20 07:46:24 pretty much Aug 20 07:46:35 I could care less about webOS, Its the 99$ pricetag Aug 20 07:46:36 The web browser makes it ridiculously good value. Aug 20 07:46:52 The rest of the apps - don't really care. Aug 20 07:47:30 again too bad its only for NAM　only :) Aug 20 07:47:37 my girlfriend has pixi, running webOS. she's never even been curious about apps. E-mail, Browser and Maps Aug 20 07:47:55 and good UX for those three Aug 20 07:48:06 psycho_oreos: I believe so. Though I am reloading the UK HP page Aug 20 07:48:24 wazd:moo Aug 20 07:51:09 SpeedEvil, shame really :) maybe HP is trying to cut back on its losses by cutting the cost of shipping as well?　:) Aug 20 07:51:40 i didn't even realize webOS had quickoffice, even better Aug 20 07:52:28 eww quickoffice, failoffice Aug 20 07:52:53 psycho_oreos: maybe apple has sued HP in all countries on this globe except NAM Aug 20 07:53:46 * DocScrutinizer considers starting evil plans on how to nuke Apple off the surface of this earth Aug 20 07:53:50 phonedog says the tablet is buggy as hell... watching vid now Aug 20 07:54:01 DocScrutinizer, I didn't imagine apple would have stopped suing HP　there, maybe they stuffed the DA's mailbox full of allegations against HTC, Samsung, et. al.'s patent infringements? ;) Aug 20 07:55:38 it honestly never ceases to amaze me how the irony of certain man-made goods, the patent and how in certain areas you get people so finicky over trivial matters but in other cases its not so the case. Aug 20 07:56:08 you'd hope pApple finally achieves patents are considered mega bullshit and abolished worldwide Aug 20 07:56:50 "but ours has rounded corners, so yours mustn't use this design detail!" WTF?!!!! Aug 20 07:56:57 Looking at car manufacturers where it seems like European cars are generally taking the lead on innovations and the rest of the world either copies/mimicks or creates their own other form of innovation. It just seems as thought there's no stupid suing over patented design in cars as there are in computers and related electronics Aug 20 07:57:31 as if Apple had invented the rounded corner or sth Aug 20 07:57:32 I'm sure if Apple started creating cars, it'll probably start suing other car manufacturers as well *laughs hysterically* Aug 20 07:58:20 psycho_oreos: They'd start everybody using round objects to roll along a flat surface Aug 20 07:58:27 apple is paying good money to nokia for every iphone they sell, it's not like apple is the only one (ab)using patent system Aug 20 07:58:33 s/start/start sueing/ Aug 20 07:58:33 DocScrutinizer meant: psycho_oreos: They'd start sueing everybody using round objects to roll along a flat surface Aug 20 07:59:51 DocScrutinizer, and I'm sure plenty of other little miniscule advancements they've made being turned into a patent of its own. Its like a minefield out there Aug 20 08:00:14 I thought it was Apple who started suing nokia not the vice versa Aug 20 08:00:37 honestly we (the consumers) should outright boycott each manufacturer that rather than to build better stuff rather thinks suing others for doing so Aug 20 08:01:07 but hey, nobody would deny that apple's racking up of patent infringements is hardly any different from oracle's ulterior motives Aug 20 08:01:48 psycho_oreos: nah, and apple ended paying quite a lot to nokia Aug 20 08:03:01 * DocScrutinizer is going to patent electrons, neutrons and protons Aug 20 08:03:29 of course including "any derived work" Aug 20 08:05:07 ""...and all combinations thereof, in whatever modifications" Aug 20 08:05:54 * DocScrutinizer is going to patent the 4 elementary forces Aug 20 08:06:15 ""...and all combinations and derivatives thereof, in whatever modifications" Aug 20 08:06:30 it's a game that's tangentally related to their business. it's like the gambling minigame you have in a video game Aug 20 08:06:59 * DocScrutinizer won that game, definitely Aug 20 08:07:20 needed me just as few as 2 patents Aug 20 08:07:51 DocScrutinizer: I considered that. Aug 20 08:08:01 * DocScrutinizer registers third patent: space-time-continuum Aug 20 08:08:29 no come here Apple, let's fight it out Aug 20 08:09:10 you act as though Apple doesn't already have patent on cellular respiration Aug 20 08:09:27 so when you come to sue, they give you cease and desist for being alive :p Aug 20 08:10:08 'A device that senses directly or indirectly the strong or weak force, gravitation, or electromagnetism, performs computations, and outputs directly or indirectly through effectuators using those same forces' Aug 20 08:10:13 they can do so only by infringing my first 2 patents, while their mere existence infringes all 3 of my patents Aug 20 08:10:53 yet they have the lawyers to push their countersuit through before your suit Aug 20 08:11:10 and the pocketed judges and govenment officals of course Aug 20 08:11:58 flailingmonkey: I have my evil secret plans to nuke them off the globe though Aug 20 08:12:12 might be the only option :p Aug 20 08:22:52 ""Dear Steve. While I still was about to save money from my daily fitness studio visits to afford buying the iPad-II, I heard about apple sueing competitors for using same round corners on their tabs as Aplle does on iPad. That's not the kind of device I am eager to own. Please tell me when Apple managed to rollout a device that's just so much better than competitors' that it doesn't need this sort of evil protection to gain traction in Aug 20 08:22:54 market, Sincerely, DocScrutinizer "" Aug 20 08:28:55 ooh forgot: "I also learned Apple is photoshopping fake evidence to convince court about competitors' design being a copy of Apple's. That's not the kind of image of a company I'd like to own products made by them. I'd be ashamed carrying one of Apple's products in the public" Aug 20 08:30:52 doesn't Steve know that sympathy always is with the underdog, not with the evil huge monopolist? Aug 20 09:01:20 LOL >>We've always said MeeGo on the N900 will never be ready for "end users" it's not yet and probably never will be a goal for the project.[...]When I talk about MeeGo on talk.maemo.org, I'm targetting the developers, we need people to port apps to the platform and help us make it more complete, so we're trying to attract more involvement from maemo developers and grow our community.<< So let me make sure I get this right: maemo devels Aug 20 09:01:21 should join the meegoCE community to make an OS&apps more complete, though the OS&apps isn't, never was, and never will be meant for "the maemo users" - DANG *this* makes a lot of sense -- http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1028505&postcount=103 Aug 20 09:04:29 yeaaa Aug 20 09:05:56 probably all those "headhunters" should focus on HARMattan developer scene rather than generic maemo fremantle as found in tmo and here. They'd then target the devels that are actually about to do sth for the platform meegoCE is meant to eventually run on AIUI, and wouldn't look like actively trying to blood-let maemo developer scene Aug 20 09:07:41 i feel like mobile (phone) computing apps world is about to crash in on itself over next 2 years Aug 20 09:07:53 same here Aug 20 09:08:05 I think they are still in tenets of Nokia's magical sticking to branding words that were selected to replace previous branding words Aug 20 09:08:08 feels kinda like the dotcom bubble Aug 20 09:08:34 yeah. the fact that it feels like a bubble... thats saying that these apps priced at 0.99 are already overvalued... Aug 20 09:08:50 which really means what many have already concluded: most mobile apps are rubbish Aug 20 09:08:55 worth nothing at all Aug 20 09:10:10 i think most of these mobile app companies are private, so there isn't the extra explosion of stock market investors Aug 20 09:11:40 you all know the "got a buck?" punks. Here we got a special individual that instead 'sold' free advertisement fliers to tourists for a buck. Appstore 0.99 apps seem alike Aug 20 09:18:51 sold advert fliers? people bought fliers...? Aug 20 09:54:48 X-Fade: ping Aug 20 09:56:47 anybody using Linux, please review my design proposal of WM/light DE Aug 20 09:56:53 http://forum.ubuntu.org.cn/viewtopic.php?f=168&t=342349 Aug 20 10:18:23 X-Fade: if you have time, please have a look at the second paragraph in http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2011-August/028578.html - seems to be an autobuilder/repo problem? Aug 20 10:23:10 flailingmonkey: indeed some japanese do, probably because they don't understand a word. Residents "buy" a flier occasionally to get rid of the bug, he can be *very* 'convincing' (probably learnt in Morocco or India) Aug 20 10:23:39 oh Aug 20 10:32:25 s/bug/tick/ Aug 20 11:46:34 I had a thought about hildon desktop( merging with Firefox tab group and meego harmattan) acutally. http://forum.ubuntu.org.cn/viewtopic.php?f=168&t=342349 Aug 20 12:04:16 SpeedEvil: http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/lithiuml91l92_appman.pdf p.8 impedance spectroscopy Aug 20 12:30:51 I was not sure yesterday, was your comment " it's dirt simple: short D+ with D-", about my issue with my "non charging" car adapter for the n900? Aug 20 12:31:06 oups wrong room, sorry Aug 20 12:50:39 onen|openBmap, sounds applicable Aug 20 13:04:54 wazd: moo again Aug 20 13:05:02 wazd: so what were the changes to the bitmaps? =) Aug 20 13:16:39 ping X-Fade Aug 20 13:22:59 lcuk: there? Aug 20 13:45:56 hello I'd like help with the packaging dependencies on my n900 Aug 20 13:55:05 and just another one on top: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1040369#post1040369 Aug 20 13:56:04 DocScrutinizer: I think that arguing that Meego for the N900 is not OSS is stupid. Aug 20 13:56:34 it will never absolutely fully totally completelly be OSS because of stuff like the GLES driver. Aug 20 13:56:48 it's stupid to argue meegoCE_as_is_right_now is *any* better in _any_ regard than fremantle Aug 20 13:56:58 it's way more OSS. Aug 20 13:57:08 who gives a shit? Aug 20 13:57:20 well, the post you quoted seemingly gives a shit Aug 20 13:57:27 If I want OSS I get me debian on my N900 Aug 20 13:57:52 nonono, read it again Aug 20 13:58:12 need HP, touchpad! Aug 20 13:58:26 MohammadAG: me too, but seemingly out of US people are rather boned. Aug 20 13:58:33 where can I get the 32GB one for 150? Aug 20 13:58:37 >>My argument is that Maemo is more functional than MeeGo, and by far more mature. You are the one that started making claims that because it was "more open" it was "better". I've consistently said that regardless of how much more open it is, unless it's 100% open it has the same flaw as Maemo, making the argument of which is "more open" a moot point.<< Aug 20 13:58:57 DocScrutinizer: no, that's stupid, sorry. Aug 20 13:59:16 DocScrutinizer: bme and the GL driver being closed is one thing. Half of the user space applications being closed is an entirely different thing. Aug 20 13:59:30 his point that a single component being closed ruins the entire thing is bogus Aug 20 13:59:49 javispedro: closed userspace worse than _no_ userspace? SURE Aug 20 14:00:19 ? Aug 20 14:00:26 ah,. Aug 20 14:00:35 javispedro, a US store works fine, but hp.com is out of stock Aug 20 14:00:38 and amazon.com has it for 400 Aug 20 14:01:03 DocScrutinizer: well that's the price you pay (uselessness). I'm just saying the the his OSS arguments are bogus. Aug 20 14:01:07 woody says "why do you advertise meego as the best thing since sliced bread, when you have no single point where it's better _right now_ than fremantel?" I agree with that wholeheartedly Aug 20 14:01:12 MohammadAG: neither ships to outside US. Aug 20 14:01:57 DocScrutinizer: I obviously also think that Meego is more useless than Maemo. I'm not an idiot. I use Maemo. Aug 20 14:02:08 DocScrutinizer: but it IS more OSS. He cannot argue that. Aug 20 14:02:18 he doesn't Aug 20 14:02:21 he does Aug 20 14:02:34 webOS is better than Android, in the sense that it's closer to desktop distros right? Aug 20 14:02:40 no, he says there's no such thing like more OSS, either it' Aug 20 14:02:42 when Attila tells him that Meego is more open thus has more chances of future, he rebuffes it. Aug 20 14:02:43 s free Aug 20 14:02:45 or not Aug 20 14:02:54 DocScrutinizer: and that's what I think is stupid. Aug 20 14:03:01 which is arguable but not his core point Aug 20 14:03:04 MohammadAG: yes, it can even run X11. Aug 20 14:03:21 esp since meego still has BME and similar shit Aug 20 14:03:23 DocScrutinizer: it is his core point; it is the reason he's trollanswering to Attila. Aug 20 14:04:09 meh Aug 20 14:05:38 >>My argument is that Maemo is more functional than MeeGo, and by far more mature. You are the one that started making claims that because it was "more open" it was "better". I've consistently said that regardless of how much more open it is, unless it's 100% open it has the same flaw as Maemo, making the argument of which is "more open" a moot point.<< Aug 20 14:05:47 where is it his core point here? Aug 20 14:06:17 his point that a single component being closed ruins the entire thing is bogus Aug 20 14:06:34 he never said "single component" Aug 20 14:06:34 javispedro, I can ship to someone in the US, I just can't find a store that has it in stock with the low price tag Aug 20 14:07:25 and he's not either saying it ruins the thing, he says it ruins the argument of meego being "better" Aug 20 14:07:46 please reread! Aug 20 14:07:57 it would be funny if it turned out to be a rumor (touchpad price slash) Aug 20 14:08:34 DocScrutinizer: so you don't think him saying "it has the same flaw as Maemo" is saying it ruins the entire thing? Aug 20 14:08:44 no Aug 20 14:08:50 and it DOESN'T have the same flaw as Maemo either way. Aug 20 14:08:57 aha Aug 20 14:09:18 ShadowJK, prices have been slashed, inventories are empty. Aug 20 14:09:25 MohammadAG, nor I. Aug 20 14:10:15 * ShadowJK eonwders why they had ipad-like pricing in the first place Aug 20 14:10:18 it seems 95% of reader are not able to keep a thought across more than 1.5 sentences Aug 20 14:10:30 GAN900, got a local walmart? Aug 20 14:10:41 apparently they sell them in store for the low price Aug 20 14:11:01 even that short quote above is obviously impossible to get over right Aug 20 14:11:45 DocScrutinizer: sorry but I disagree. It's his main point. Aug 20 14:11:54 sure, ok Aug 20 14:12:01 Just watch how he's going to troll me again when I quote that exact quote. Aug 20 14:15:24 my FMTX's starting to suck, any tips? Aug 20 14:16:54 MohammadAG, out of stock Aug 20 14:17:26 I watch (and read) http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1028548&postcount=104 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1028628&postcount=107 and http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1040369#post1040369 And I wouldn't know how to phrase any word better in any of those posts, and when I read >>I don't care about "end-users" the people that are here from buying the N900 thinking it was something it wasn't, that is not an aspect of the community Aug 20 14:17:28 I've particularly enjoyed having around here the past year. Talk to most developers here and they all pretty much say the same thing.<< Originally Posted by tswindell http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1028565#post1028565 I know which side I'm on, no second pondering, no doubts, nothing left to say Aug 20 14:17:35 as are Staples, Office Depot and Best Buy Aug 20 14:17:47 is there some way to find out which app(s) have a particular dependency? I'd like to locate that app so I can uninstall it, hopefully curing my problem Aug 20 14:18:55 apt-cache show [packagename] if it's from the repo. Aug 20 14:18:56 apt-cache rdepends alibrary Aug 20 14:19:06 or better this :-). Aug 20 14:19:39 rdepends shows everything that has a dependency on whatever you type after rdepends Aug 20 14:21:38 basically meego been still-born since beginning, and I never been 100% convinced of the contrary for a single day. Now it's becoming so obvious that only those that are the 1st hour protagonists of an alternative to maemo are suffering from the "my child" syndrome, everybody else seeing clearly meego is a dead-end with no potential to ever come on par to fremantle as long as we're evaluationg its value for "the maemo community" Aug 20 14:22:24 GAN900, even stores? Aug 20 14:23:14 as I was saying yesterday they'd run out of stock even before 7.00 AM :) Aug 20 14:24:32 any ideas if they'll stock up soon? Aug 20 14:24:35 MohammadAG, particularly stores. Aug 20 14:24:38 probably not Aug 20 14:24:38 Doubt it Aug 20 14:24:41 Clearance item. Aug 20 14:24:44 thanks ShadowJK and NIN101 I'm trying apt-cache now Aug 20 14:24:47 and it's obviously not only me who's thinking it's bold when I ask "how to intercept/modify an outgoing call/phonenumber? My customers are asking for this feature" I get the answer (from lcuk) "fool! help implementing it to meego! why would you even bother doing it for fremantle?" Aug 20 14:25:16 DocScrutinizer: because you MIGHT not be able to do it for fremantle Aug 20 14:25:20 DocScrutinizer: while you surely can for Meego. Aug 20 14:25:45 grr Aug 20 14:26:52 MohammadAG, some'll probably show up on eBay for only marginally inflated prices. Aug 20 14:26:55 I asked a bit more verbose and my question already included a suggestion *how it could be done in fremantle* - just it was like "we don't plan to do anything about this friggin telepathy implementation used in fremantle, heel we won't even help you figure how you could patch it so it provides this function" Aug 20 14:27:34 s/just it/just the answer/ Aug 20 14:27:34 DocScrutinizer meant: I asked a bit more verbose and my question already included a suggestion *how it could be done in fremantle* - just the answer was like "we don't plan to do anything about this friggin telepathy implementation used in fremantle, heel we won't even help yo... Aug 20 14:30:18 "...but help to implement it for meego, you're more than welcome" WTF?!!! either this is a library/toolkit/middleware then it should be FSCKNG a dontcare which side of the fence gets the function first as it gets ported anyway, just I wasn't in meego development but asked for maemo. Or this is not, then WTF a second time Aug 20 14:31:22 because for the people you are asking Meego is _UPSTREAM_ Aug 20 14:31:33 and then you wonder why several people (incl me) are frowning at meegoCE? Aug 20 14:31:58 you're adopting a stupid posture. Aug 20 14:32:16 and on the harsh way we get suggested to abandon maemo in favour of a halfdone meegoCE Aug 20 14:32:24 It'll be like me going to the SDL forums and telling them, "hey, I've done all these changes to SDL1.2" Aug 20 14:32:40