**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Aug 28 02:59:57 2011 Aug 28 04:39:41 Poor #webos Aug 28 06:06:48 good morning Aug 28 06:16:37 can someone tell sivang to pm me his number Aug 28 06:17:11 send them a memo Aug 28 06:17:55 yeah, msg doesn't work on irc chatter Aug 28 06:20:29 memo should :)　and memo is not the same as messag Aug 28 06:20:32 message* Aug 28 09:03:33 Morning, all Aug 28 09:32:59 hi Aug 28 09:33:48 I have one n800 here .. would it be feasible to install the latest release on it or I rather should stick to the earlier one ? Aug 28 09:34:26 I mean .. is the latest maemo more suited for n9xx? Aug 28 10:02:29 hello. Is there no autojoin option on startup op IrGGu irc client? Aug 28 10:11:51 ok, I can see that this had been discussed on the forums of course Aug 28 10:12:29 so the n8xx devices are bound to latest 4.x branch :) Aug 28 10:17:43 errordeveloper: you could say that :) Aug 28 10:23:00 any one here who works with n900 hardware? (sorry if offtopic) Aug 28 10:25:22 Not off-topic. Aug 28 10:25:48 Asking a question generally gets a response, though, rather than asking to ask which just annoys ;) Aug 28 10:26:26 Dibblah, thanks. :) Aug 28 10:27:58 so, we can talk about n900 related stuffs in this channel? Aug 28 10:28:10 You're asking to ask again... Aug 28 10:31:29 Ok here goes my problem... seems like I reveersed te polarity of usb wile trying to make a charger.. and it has stopped my n900 from mking any contacts from usb (charging as well as Data transfer). Aug 28 10:32:04 Someone suggested me to connect the two terminals of fuse.. I did that and still it doesnt work. So wanting to know what might have been damaged... and serarching for solution. Aug 28 10:37:04 errordeveloper, N800 and N900 greatly differs in hardware, if you can successfully flash your N800 with N900 firmware, the end result is a bricked N800 Aug 28 10:46:43 psycho_oreos: sure ... I see now Aug 28 10:47:05 seems like there zero package updates fror Diablo ;( Aug 28 10:47:31 I nee to get newer version of flash player ... youtube doesn't work :((( Aug 28 10:47:33 its an ancient device, learn to deal with it Aug 28 10:48:15 yeah ... sure, though I though there should security patches etc ... Aug 28 10:49:19 nokia pretty much abandoned maemo, do you think any of us maemo handheld owners would be getting any more security updates let alone updates? :) Aug 28 10:49:45 psycho_oreos: Yeah… but only if we installed Android *badum tssshh* Aug 28 10:49:48 oh well, this obviously not a general linux distro Aug 28 10:50:06 I pull my N810 out every now and then, and stare wistfully at the empty updates list Aug 28 10:50:20 damn Aug 28 10:50:32 so what's the score with getting android on it ? Aug 28 10:51:04 What, the N900? or are you talking about the N810 ( I just dropped in! ) Aug 28 10:51:06 Gadgetoid, lol I don't know how well nitdroid performs on anything less than N900 but you can imagine people are generally annoyed at the stupid nitdroid users on N900 :p Aug 28 10:51:20 gomiam: n800 in fact ;) Aug 28 10:51:30 what's so bad about this device ? Aug 28 10:51:44 errordeveloper, it is a linux distro bubt a very specific one Aug 28 10:51:47 old? .. well, may be GL ES is not there .. Aug 28 10:51:59 errordeveloper: two n800s (one US and one EU) and an n810 Aug 28 10:52:20 errordeveloper: there is nothing wrong about it... but its manufacturer, Nokia Aug 28 10:52:45 gomiam: well, my father uses this n800 quite happy Aug 28 10:52:55 but there a couple of issues right now Aug 28 10:53:03 errordeveloper: I use my main n800 almost continuously Aug 28 10:53:05 a) flash doesn't work for you tube Aug 28 10:53:19 b) he gets out of ram pop-ups Aug 28 10:53:20 Hmm, it's been an age since I tried Android out… bloody chore to install Aug 28 10:53:41 errordeveloper: it doesn't? I think I can see youtube videos on the browser... even if I need to get them to load completely Aug 28 10:53:45 gomiam: what for? Aug 28 10:54:06 I see, well .. I got like an hour or two to fix it up somehow, so android is not an option in this case then :)) Aug 28 10:54:41 Gadgetoid: mmm... RSS, browsing, mail, IRC, MSN, photos (in a pinch), skype, shell scripting, ssh Aug 28 10:54:47 lots of things actually Aug 28 10:55:02 I even bought an Ubiquio foldable Bluetooth keyboard for it. Aug 28 10:55:45 I'm having a few problems with the media player indexing my music right now, but Internet radio works very well Aug 28 10:56:38 oh, and Gnumeric for spreadsheets and Abiword for word processing Aug 28 10:56:57 of course having the Bt keyboard is very useful with Abiword Aug 28 10:57:00 ah .. I think I know what's the score with out of ram pop-ups Aug 28 10:57:20 apparently my dad took the internal sd card out Aug 28 10:57:20 I even have the text-to-speech to mess around with my friends :D Aug 28 10:57:33 errordeveloper: so no swap Aug 28 10:57:40 yes, that could explain that. Aug 28 10:57:40 sure, I see now :)) Aug 28 10:57:49 You're getting a helluva lot of use out of that! Aug 28 10:58:42 Gadgetoid: of course! It's a very versatile product even if it gets almost no support any more Aug 28 10:59:06 let me see if I'm missing some usual application I use beside the standard ones. Aug 28 10:59:42 oh, yes, VNC connections, WifiInfo to check wifi status, and aircrack to "test" network security ;) Aug 28 10:59:47 True, some brilliant software… although I now use my N810 for nothing more than FBReader Aug 28 11:00:40 Gadgetoid: I, myself, like using GPE calendar/todo a lot Aug 28 11:00:58 one of this days I'll finally get started on using HomeBank. Aug 28 11:01:39 Maemo was so awesome that Apple stole "Not Charging" from it for the iPad, badum tsssh! Aug 28 11:02:20 Gadgetoid: XD Aug 28 11:03:11 I also use the tuner and comic reader ocasionally Aug 28 11:03:23 I had to go and grab my N810 now, haha! Aug 28 11:03:31 Gadgetoid: nice :) Aug 28 11:03:46 I may put my dpkg list up somewhere if you want to check it out Aug 28 11:03:51 you might find something interesting Aug 28 11:03:53 how much ram does n800 has ? Aug 28 11:03:56 I think my battery is stuffed, doesn't seem to last long even with some very power conservative settings Aug 28 11:04:17 errordeveloper: 128RAM, 256 Flash IIRC Aug 28 11:04:21 I'm trying to figure out what card to put for swap Aug 28 11:05:21 errordeveloper: you can assign up to 128 MB of the inner SD card for swap. I don't recommend you use the external one because sooner or later you will want to substitute it while the system is on Aug 28 11:05:47 I seem to remember you could bring swap up to 256 with some tricks, but you will need to Google that. Aug 28 11:06:07 I have 8GB cards on my N8x0s Aug 28 11:06:36 two in each N800 and one in the N810 as it doesn't have an internal slot :) Aug 28 11:07:14 Yeah… how did Nokia manage to lose an SD card slot! Aug 28 11:07:38 The N900 isn't bad, as the internal memory is bigger than any SD card I'd ever bother buying for it Aug 28 11:07:47 But the N810… grr Aug 28 11:08:15 Gadgetoid: they decided "nobody should ever need more than 2GB of internal SD" :) Aug 28 11:08:25 the coolest thing about N900 is that it has phone functionality ;) Aug 28 11:08:50 Mine doesn't Aug 28 11:09:05 psycho_oreos: true, true. Unfortunately it still is dead-ended by Nokia not open sourcing it all. Aug 28 11:09:21 gomiam, goes back to the age old reference:　that's nokia for you :) Aug 28 11:09:26 was the subject of webos discussed here? Aug 28 11:09:42 psycho_oreos: I know, I know. It is still a shame. Aug 28 11:09:54 cityLights: possibly, though not while I was here. Aug 28 11:10:24 was there any thing valuable there? Aug 28 11:10:34 cityLights: it is quite unrelated to Nxx0 and the like, though. Aug 28 11:10:58 Time to try the N810 with an iControlPad Aug 28 11:11:01 cityLights: no idea. I considered getting one when they dropped the price but, alas, no such luck in Spain. Aug 28 11:11:03 well, it does cast a shade over maemo - now does it? Aug 28 11:11:26 can it run maemo? Aug 28 11:11:48 Gadgetoid: oh, you just reminded me of another funny app for N8x0, BlueMaemo, which lets your N8x0 act as a Bt keyboard, mouse and some other things. Aug 28 11:11:54 cityLights, some webos owners decided to install android on their webos devices and had issues with it, they were complete idiots and got themselves banned. Apparently one of the op from #webos claimed it was the first ban ever in 2 years or something like that Aug 28 11:12:22 cityLights: I don't think so. AFAIK Touchpad is ARM and Maemo is OMAP... Aug 28 11:12:26 gomiam, indeed, but life goes on with crippling features that would've benefitted if it were done right.. it gets worse as N950 and N9 is crippled in their own ways Aug 28 11:12:33 gomiam: I remember that one ;) Aug 28 11:13:07 psycho_oreos: true, true. And we consumers are left holding the ball :) Aug 28 11:13:12 Whatever happened to Mer? Aug 28 11:13:34 Gadgetoid: it was dropped in favour of bringing Meego to N8x0 Aug 28 11:13:45 but it didn't get too far either. Aug 28 11:14:11 Same old same old :( Aug 28 11:14:50 well, looks like its possible to run meego on the touch[ad Aug 28 11:15:09 cityLights: I should hope so... as long as you have the needed hardware drivers Aug 28 11:15:13 gomiam, I guess it was good thing whilst it sort of lasted.. the whole idea of keeping bonsai pets (i.e. in reference to hardwares that could have been better on internet tablets by nokia and yet each one they made seems to have some sort of deformity of some sort) Aug 28 11:15:55 psycho_oreos: well, I mean to keep my N800 working for quite a while. For the time being I haven't found anything that really called out to me to "upgrade" Aug 28 11:16:08 Heehee, works nicely with the iControlPad; it's like a liiittle tiny SNES Aug 28 11:16:26 It's like having an N900 without horribly crippled bluetooth Aug 28 11:16:53 Gadgetoid: was Bt messed up in N900? Aug 28 11:17:01 gomiam, heh Aug 28 11:17:05 gomiam: absolute effing nightmare! Aug 28 11:17:25 I think it's a trend with smartphones, to try and create the most screwed up shadow of bluetooth they can muster Aug 28 11:17:49 Gadgetoid: I can't really deny that :D Aug 28 11:17:56 alas N900 isn't a smartphone let alone a phone :p Aug 28 11:18:56 back to the upgrade... Nokia is out for the time being (I want Linux, not some sewn down Windows), Android seems to be getting more closed with each new release, and I don't want Apple... Aug 28 11:19:02 so it is wait and see for me. Aug 28 11:19:52 openmoko test projects seems promising but they are going at the rate of turtles in terms of mass hardware prototyping and selling their handheld devices Aug 28 11:19:53 Amazing what Google have done to Android.. created an OS so open that carries can ass-rape it full of crapware and break the bluetooth Aug 28 11:19:58 carriers* Aug 28 11:20:34 Gadgetoid: I don't mind they fucking up Bt, that's what Cyanogen mod is for ;) Aug 28 11:20:40 isn't it? Aug 28 11:20:52 gomiam: in theory, yes, in practise… gah… I can't be bothered! Aug 28 11:21:25 I've got a Motorola DEFY at the moment, the bluetooth seems ....okay Aug 28 11:21:57 Gadgetoid: I would say you don't have enough computer-fu, but I may be mistaken. Then again I'm the one my friends come to whenever they want something weird done to their computers/phones/whatever :D Aug 28 11:22:21 gomiam: Plenty of computer fu, too lazy to use it Aug 28 11:23:02 Gadgetoid: lazy? Not enough. I'm so lazy I spend time in setting up things so I don't have to work more than needed on them :P Aug 28 11:23:50 anyway, time to go get the newspaper, take the trash out... be back in a bit :) Aug 28 12:34:01 hi! when using hostmode with an ext3 formatted hdd, enumerating throws errors. is this only possible with fat formatted drives? Aug 28 12:34:55 I think its an issue with osso-filemanager or whatever you are using. If you mount it manually it'll work Aug 28 12:35:03 device not accepting address 38, error -71 Aug 28 12:35:26 want to use filebox. Aug 28 12:35:26 i get that when using bad cables or low power on the drive Aug 28 12:35:37 (not on a maemo host, regular laptop) Aug 28 12:35:55 it is an 3,5" hdd with separate power supply. Aug 28 12:36:18 have you tried other USB -> uUSB adapter/cable? Aug 28 12:36:43 mice work with my cable. Aug 28 12:36:51 or at least tried other devices attached to the same cable? Aug 28 12:36:57 hmm Aug 28 12:37:27 how old is the 3.5" hdd with separate power supply? Aug 28 12:37:46 about half a year. Aug 28 12:38:56 I'm guessing you might also have faced similar issues as I have.. I think external hard drives tend to leech some power off the host, sure enough they have their own power supply to feed off but it seems like they're willing to detect and leech off host's USB power Aug 28 12:41:03 I'm also guessing if and when you unplug the external HDD from the computer but leaving the external power supply intact, you hear the external hard drive click for maybe a second or so? Aug 28 12:41:39 a normal usb stick works, too. Aug 28 12:42:25 yeah that's expected as USB stick draws fairly minimal power compared to conventional hard disks Aug 28 12:43:03 do i have to wait between the steps in hostmode-gui? Aug 28 12:44:11 I don't think there would be that much of difference if you waited in between the steps. I usually give mine a second or two before each steps but checking the logs are quite handy Aug 28 12:45:08 no chance with this hdd. i guess, you're right with the power issue. Aug 28 12:45:35 but an ext3 fs should be ok? Aug 28 12:50:23 mase76, yes it should Aug 28 12:50:41 thx for your help! Aug 28 12:51:45 there might be a way with the power issue but I'm only guessing of theoretical workarounds which may/may not work Aug 28 12:52:30 which are? Aug 28 12:57:55 mase76: you can try and connect a powered USB hub in between. That way no power should be drawn that might make the host-mode cause problems. Aug 28 12:58:31 if i had such a device. Aug 28 12:58:39 of course, that0s a requirement Aug 28 12:58:44 :) Aug 28 13:06:39 that or maybe a charger that would feed USB output for use with the external hdd. In my case I'm thinking of using something like ipod's wall charger Aug 28 13:08:05 that and a fancy cable for the 3.5" hdd to piggyback on. Think of that Y cable for 2.5" hdd except for the connector that goes into 2.5" hdd (which is mini USB) it is a proper USB head for the 3.5" Aug 28 13:17:13 OTOH I think USB hubs with power input aren't too uncommon... and neither are 5V 1A power sources. Aug 28 13:29:01 I guess it highly depends on the end user's budget :) Aug 28 14:19:04 true psycho_oreos Aug 28 14:20:58 my n900 display is broken, it mixes colours and somthimes all black, just like if the cable was not 100% connected but it happens when the phone is not moving and it nont changes if i shake the phone or anything, is this a software problem or ? Aug 28 14:21:34 the nokia boot screen show nice and then it starts to mix colours and line moving fast on the screen¨ Aug 28 14:22:02 like now my n900 works nice! Aug 28 14:23:02 strange that i have to wait a while for usb devices to be connected on mine. Aug 28 14:23:22 Triscar0: seems like a known issue Aug 28 14:23:45 oh, someway to fix it ? Aug 28 14:23:48 of course, u could have hardware that's failing Aug 28 14:24:17 If it happens regulary I'd suspect hardware failure Aug 28 14:24:43 um, none that i know... i think DocScrutinizer has a video of one such occurence Aug 28 14:25:02 url ? Aug 28 14:25:26 check out his ovi page Aug 28 14:25:43 joergn900 iirc Aug 28 14:25:51 Triscar0, does the effect occur and change as you slide the keyboard in and out Aug 28 14:26:52 no, i cant find any spess way to get it to start mixing colour, it happens random Aug 28 14:27:28 now my phone work normal, and i shake it, push up screen and use it and nothing happens, but when its laying on the table it may start mixing colours Aug 28 14:28:47 lol, now it was on the table not moving, and the screen started his own disco! Aug 28 14:30:37 its my 2nd n900, and i like it because of linux operating system and because of the keyboard, but now i will try a new phone. Is there any simulare phone i shuld buy ? Aug 28 14:31:49 Triscar0: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/spontaneousArt_madBatShit_20110602_001.mp4 Aug 28 14:32:07 also somewhere on youtube Aug 28 14:32:12 iirc Aug 28 14:32:56 it would also technically help what you were doing last before your screen broke Aug 28 14:32:58 Triscar0: supposedly DSP freaking ot, often a permanent damage rsulting feom OC Aug 28 14:34:00 i woke up and was going to check my facebook and then it started:D Aug 28 14:34:05 thnx DocScrutinizer51 Aug 28 14:34:06 Triscar0: sorry I can't provide better links (like youtube) now, as I'm on the road and online via N900 Aug 28 14:34:52 lol so we have another oc'ers case, I wonder who's going to kill the remaining N900 stock. Those oc'ers or those with genuine N900 defects. Aug 28 14:35:14 Triscar0: supposedly DSP freaking out, often a permanent damage resulting feom OC Aug 28 14:35:47 from* grrr Aug 28 14:36:48 its not like in the movie, its just crazy colours Aug 28 14:37:01 alot of lines with colours, and moving from top to bottom Aug 28 14:37:32 oh. Aug 28 14:37:44 just like a bad cable:D Aug 28 14:38:08 maybe that's your issue then Aug 28 14:38:53 yeah maby, but strange when it happens when the phone is 100% still, and dont happen anyting when i shake, open display, hit the phone:D Aug 28 14:45:22 is the N8 any good ? Aug 28 14:51:05 no Aug 28 14:52:38 N9 is about to come out fairly soon and here you're asking about N8, lmao Aug 28 14:54:10 I don't think either are comparable to N900 Aug 28 14:54:47 no neither of them are, but none of any other devices on the market currently is comparable to N900 either. Aug 28 14:55:04 should I add, devices that are available for sale to the public Aug 28 14:55:13 right Aug 28 14:56:39 and N9 hopefully should feature a much full fledged linux beneath its ugly aegis mask. At least that in a very distant sense is comparable to that of N900 in terms of core software features, unlike N8 which has a completely different core. Aug 28 14:58:05 about aegis, no way to disable it? Aug 28 14:59:22 some rumours say that a custom kernel might.. but that imposes two other set of notes: 1) how the hell are you going to be able to get the kernel to actually install let alone boot your custom kernel? 2) By disabling aegis you remove certain functionalities of N9/N950 Aug 28 15:00:46 Triscar0: the DSP when going mad can cause all sorts of weird GFX artifacts. Your results may differ largely form what is in that video. The point however is that usually there's still some weird kind of relation between what's happening on screen to what user interaction caused that. If you can ssh in via WLAN etc, you may try to retart some DSP related stuff (don't ask me what that might be in particular) Also you may want to watch dmesg ( Aug 28 15:00:47 or have ksyslog pkg installed and look into tail of /var/log/syslog) to find error messages related somehow to DSP/video/graphics Aug 28 15:01:29 also a god test is connecting the device to a TV via AV-cable, and see if the image there looks identical Aug 28 15:01:33 good* Aug 28 15:02:09 looks more like what you'd see when a 3D GPU goes mad ;p Aug 28 15:02:37 yeah that's what I meant Aug 28 15:03:06 Triscar0: did you overclock the device? Aug 28 15:03:17 any time? Aug 28 15:04:40 Triscar0: I also experienced a cable breakage on N900, and that was kinda different, as it didn't recover by a carefully executed reboot Aug 28 15:06:09 the impact on image was more like green stripes on half of the screen, and finally whole screen collapsed into a single green horizontal line in the middle of the screen Aug 28 15:06:32 iirc in your video there were triangles flying around Aug 28 15:06:45 notably this also had impact on TV out which seems to depend on correct timing/data transfer to/from LCD Aug 28 15:06:53 ShadowJK: yes Aug 28 15:07:03 oh you're talking about cable break Aug 28 15:08:13 Triscar0: first of all: reflash to a clean stock PR1.3 system, see if the defect vanishes for good then Aug 28 15:08:39 2nd: back up all your data!!! Aug 28 15:08:59 3rd: check your purchase receipe and warranty Aug 28 15:09:44 well, maybe make #2 actually topmost point on your todo list ;-D Aug 28 15:09:48 I'd do backup first ;P Aug 28 15:09:56 :-D lol Aug 28 15:10:47 anybody experience with IP-cams for surveillance? Aug 28 15:11:03 (sorry for OT) Aug 28 15:11:51 the idea of running around rebooting surveillance cams all day seems fun Aug 28 15:12:09 indeed, bothered me as well Aug 28 15:12:52 though this is only one cam here, the users are highly unlikely to even get the concept of rebooting a cam Aug 28 15:13:43 so stability/watchdogs was actually one of the questions I had for experienced peers Aug 28 15:14:50 I could do "remote scheduled reboot" via a timer-switch for PSU mains Aug 28 15:15:15 I actually know a guy who resells ip surveillance cams Aug 28 15:15:20 or was going to Aug 28 15:15:40 what's the stories he tells in the bar about it? Aug 28 15:16:04 but he sort of thinks it's normal to powercycle things, so I dont think id get useful answers from him about reliability :) Aug 28 15:16:21 * RST38h wonders how Ovi Suite people could keep jobs for so long Aug 28 15:16:34 well, then he's familiar with my last-resort-approach to the issue Aug 28 15:17:20 RST38h: simple: OVI is topmost project of Nokia since ~2..3 years now Aug 28 15:17:38 so a letter of intent every other month will suffice Aug 28 15:18:54 (add a few pages explaining your "progress" and general nasty problems in running any appstore-alike thing, and you're fine) Aug 28 15:21:15 the lawyers will beef that up by another few 100 pages explaining the same for their particular segment in OVI, so managers won't finish reading one report until next one comes out 2 months later XP Aug 28 15:22:02 it's kinda funny how when nokia announced it will make an appstore, analysts thought nokia's strength was in that it was good at accepting payments Aug 28 15:22:25 and yet we see lots of people having problems in getting the payments system of ovi work :p Aug 28 15:23:05 I have a hard time seeing Nokia being good in running a simple website Aug 28 15:24:10 well they used to be experts at creating a nokia.com frontpage that reiably crashed their pwn symbian devices ;p Aug 28 15:25:37 pawn symbian devices? :-D Aug 28 15:27:18 SSO and general user account management also not exactly a domain Nokia excels in. Neither seems to be providing of SDKs and proper sw update strategy Aug 28 15:28:46 my symbian phone has been whininh about sw update for a year or so Aug 28 15:29:08 hell, until new they are incapable of providing incremental upgrades - only full new PR releases, nothing else ever seen light of day Aug 28 15:29:09 but i need a disposable windows computer or something to install ovisuite on first Aug 28 15:29:18 s/new/now/ Aug 28 15:29:18 DocScrutinizer meant: hell, until now they are incapable of providing incremental upgrades - only full new PR releases, nothing else ever seen light of day Aug 28 15:31:35 (experts) well, it seems creating nokia.com pages that crash the browser was a fairly recent bug ticket against harmattan as well ;-D Aug 28 15:32:21 * RST38h is not even talking about Ovi Store Aug 28 15:32:34 The Ovi Suite by itself feels like Satan's spawn Aug 28 15:32:51 duh right. You said voi ssuite Aug 28 15:32:55 ovi* Aug 28 15:33:24 RST38h: it probably is Aug 28 15:34:22 frankly I never touched it, matching OS missing here ;-P Aug 28 15:36:52 which actually is a sort of a missed opportunity, probably a windows crack could have RE'd quite some of the protocols and create some specs how to implement something similar but better (and less hell-related) on a *proper* OS Aug 28 15:38:40 never overestimate the number of true cross-platform developers and what they are willing to do for cross-platform Aug 28 15:39:29 most system level unix experts won't touch windows with a 10 feet pole Aug 28 15:40:07 windows cracks usually are not that much familiar with unix concepts Aug 28 15:41:13 Doc: Trying to update an E7 to Anna here Aug 28 15:41:29 and the few ones that actually are sufficiently savvy to mess on both platforms frequently have better things on their todo list than porting ovi suite Aug 28 15:41:34 Doc: over-the-air update is not available Aug 28 15:43:13 funny enough (or sad, depending on POV) we see a somewhat similar effect with fremantle vs HARM now Aug 28 15:46:54 of the 300 N950 bullets Nokia fired, 100some killed an active fremantle developer Aug 28 15:48:28 DocScrutinizer: wut Aug 28 15:49:41 kerio: nevermind, way too much my private POV. Never should've said it Aug 28 15:49:49 yeah but now i want to know :( Aug 28 15:51:06 * Sicelo agrees Aug 28 15:51:30 been thinking that for a while now Aug 28 15:51:41 kerio: how's MohammadAG's responsiveness and participation statistics here on #maemo changing since he got accepted for a N950? Pick arbitrary other active developers as of meego.som/developer_device_programm Aug 28 15:51:58 i see Aug 28 15:54:46 if all those developers would chat about their HARM topics here on #maemo still, the fremantle percentage of this channel already had dropped to 0.0n% Aug 28 15:55:18 DocScrutinizer, yeah, I agree with you Aug 28 15:55:18 that's why I pushed #harmattan when the N950 hype started Aug 28 15:55:35 DocScrutinizer, if only we had a newer software release on da N950 Aug 28 15:56:04 but yeah, you are totally right Aug 28 15:57:00 I played SO much with Fremantle and spent so much time with the N900 that the N950 with Harmattan feels like a fresh start. Aug 28 15:57:59 I would never have bought an N9 though, so if Nokia hadn't given me an N950 for free, I'd probably still mess with Fremantle Aug 28 15:58:09 it is also way too different from fremantle/diablo to easily share stuff between both Aug 28 15:58:21 javispedro, what do you mean? Aug 28 15:59:30 between diablo and fremantle you could do with 10 or so #ifdefs Aug 28 15:59:37 between fremantle and harmattan, not so much. Aug 28 16:00:18 javispedro, umm, why? Aug 28 16:00:44 * javispedro fails to see why it is not evident Aug 28 16:00:51 harmattan requires a _complete_ rewrite Aug 28 16:01:00 that's true that I can't do QML on Diablo, but given the proper packages, even the qml-components apps can run on Fremantle. Aug 28 16:01:21 complete rewrite? nope, only a partial rewrite of the GUI Aug 28 16:01:47 1) if you where in the diablo times your UI is probably Gtk+, so complee Aug 28 16:01:56 2) yeah, "run" Aug 28 16:02:04 as in, fennec-like. Aug 28 16:02:12 heh Aug 28 16:02:23 after hours of waiting for it to spawn you get a completely non-native looking UI that takes ages to render Aug 28 16:02:25 have you actually tried? I'm just askin because I haven't (yet) Aug 28 16:02:35 hmmű Aug 28 16:02:43 that sounds very sad :( Aug 28 16:03:05 it does not take ages to render if you're fullscreen, but.... fremantle needs a title bar very much... Aug 28 16:04:06 yeah Aug 28 16:04:25 harmattan apps cheat this by rendering the status bar for themselves Aug 28 16:04:27 what a hack Aug 28 16:04:39 harmattan is, in fact, a bloody mess, because of this. Aug 28 16:04:43 javispedro: Isn't Meego supposed to be a full rewrite of Harmattan? Aug 28 16:05:04 I always claimed it and now more than ever: there wasn't any better way for Nokia to put an end to maemo for good than to push meego-harmattan Aug 28 16:05:20 well Aug 28 16:05:27 I like the Harmattan arch better because it works Aug 28 16:05:27 s/maemo/$MAEMO*/ Aug 28 16:05:27 DocScrutinizer meant: I always claimed it and now more than ever: there wasn't any better way for Nokia to put an end to $MAEMO* for good than to push meego-harmattan Aug 28 16:07:10 where are all the promises from "how I learned to love the bomb" about one-click-recompile compatibility between meego and maemo? Aug 28 16:09:18 honestly if we had known 18 months ago what meego will look like in the end, nobody had accepted that maemo-moblin-merger and the strategy and rationale behind it Aug 28 16:09:37 haha :P Aug 28 16:10:04 really did you expected anything else? Aug 28 16:10:10 not really Aug 28 16:10:18 take it, fuck it up, move along ... Aug 28 16:10:28 hey will that happen with WP too? :) Aug 28 16:14:07 DocScrutinizer: actually, I am personally surprised. Aug 28 16:14:15 DocScrutinizer: I think the result would have been _quite_ worse. Aug 28 16:14:20 er.. Aug 28 16:14:38 s/I think/I believed Aug 28 16:16:26 javispedro: well, the quality of HARM doesn't invalidate your previous statement of it being largely incompatible to diablo/fremantle Aug 28 16:17:35 but I knew that from the day they bought qt, has nothing to do with meego. Aug 28 16:17:38 Ahhahaha, Nokia did bungle Anna update after all Aug 28 16:17:40 BADLY Aug 28 16:18:04 lol Aug 28 16:18:12 1. Ovi Suite (recommended way to update) does not work, requires Ovi login, hangs logging in with valid credentials Aug 28 16:18:28 But I used Nokia Software Updater Aug 28 16:18:44 2. The software updates that have to be made AFTER the firmware update both fail Aug 28 16:19:19 People on the forums say that QtMobility and QtWebkit fail to install Aug 28 16:19:58 "The Issue is that Qtmobility is conflicting with the already installed latest version that is 1.13 so when this component tries to install you will get "update error" This happen with qtmobility_pu.sis?? file." Aug 28 16:20:22 RST38h: see, all this will have an end when Nokia completely switches to the wonderful world of microsoft ;-P Aug 28 16:24:31 Doc: I shudder when thinking what will happen when they add Microsoft's idiots ot their own Aug 28 16:24:49 Doc: And lubricate them all with the perkele-management Aug 28 16:28:40 DocScrutinizer, problem is, if Nokia goes the Microsoft way, who the heck else will manufacture proper semi-open Linux phones? Aug 28 16:28:55 DocScrutinizer, and I don't want to hear about android, thank you. Aug 28 16:29:17 I'm still hoping for Raster and Samsung Aug 28 16:30:10 well Aug 28 16:30:18 I think a OpenMoko comeback is more likely than that :D Aug 28 16:30:28 yay Aug 28 16:30:50 ah well. Aug 28 16:31:02 maybe they will exit the stupid phone market Aug 28 16:31:05 that is the root of all evil Aug 28 16:31:10 Samsung? I was hoping for better. Aug 28 16:31:14 I hope sooner than later for newer openmoko devices to appear. N9 isn't going to last forever Aug 28 16:31:46 agreed Aug 28 16:31:55 there will be no new openmoko phones Aug 28 16:32:23 also, I doubt that I'll ever buy a smartphone again. a tablet+dumbphone combo is more affordable, more flexible, and more convenient in so many ways. Aug 28 16:32:27 but there was works in progress for new ones (at least for the base PCB) Aug 28 16:32:45 * javispedro prefers PDAs Aug 28 16:33:07 or maybe at most a 5'' tablet.. Aug 28 16:33:16 there's that gta04 project that is aimed at ~100 devices, and actually I dunno why it claims the openmoko name as it's largely unrelated to OM and for sure completely unrelated to OM_the_Inc Aug 28 16:33:57 * psycho_oreos still doesn't like the idea of tablet devices. Plus the idea of smartphone or internet tablet with phone functionality gives one less noticeable footprint in terms of tinkering around whilst at work or other places ;) Aug 28 16:34:15 psycho_oreos, well, that depends. Aug 28 16:34:40 been there troied that, with a featurephone + palmpilot, and again with a $whatever-phone + N810. It's basically unusable for me Aug 28 16:35:04 s/troied/tried/ Aug 28 16:35:04 DocScrutinizer meant: been there tried that, with a featurephone + palmpilot, and again with a $whatever-phone + N810. It's basically unusable for me Aug 28 16:35:07 Venemo, you won't be caught offguard if you did this: http://www.knownokia.ca/2010/09/quiet-response-to-n900-laughs.html :D Aug 28 16:35:10 DocScrutinizer: what you're not considering there as that I would probably drop $whatever-phone in the trash, I'm completely tired of phones. Aug 28 16:35:25 DocScrutinizer, why didn't it? what was the problem? Aug 28 16:35:26 DocScrutinizer, I would have thought that for web browsing or chatting, when going anywhere where a 7" device fits my pocket or bag, 7" is a lot better than 4". Aug 28 16:35:50 the world of pervasive Wi-Fi is not yet here, but approaching. Aug 28 16:36:12 psycho_oreos, hehe Aug 28 16:36:20 its just one prime example :) of how naive people can be when it comes to underestimating handheld technology Aug 28 16:36:21 javispedro: this world will maybe arrive in some few towns Aug 28 16:36:47 never at least on many countries, country-wide Aug 28 16:36:58 hacking? what hacking? I've only got a phone here, how the hell am I supposed to hack with just a phone? mmm? Aug 28 16:38:04 DocScrutinizer: places where I probably want to stay off the phone as long as possible Aug 28 16:38:11 oh, and another advantage of the tablet+dumbphone combo: when you go to an unsafe place, you can leave your tablet home and not worry about your expensive smartphone Aug 28 16:38:19 DocScrutinizer, I guess I'm speechless if there's no forward movement with newer OM devices coming out. I have rather strong hopes that OM would be the key to one's success should they be heavily attached to a linux platform with proper userland tools. Aug 28 16:39:25 OM - corporate - walked away a couple of year ago now. Aug 28 16:39:39 Venemo, that's true but to think of the contrary if you have a rather exotic smartphone that was lost/stolen :) the thief wouldn't probably have as much clue as you would in trying to clear out the evidence :D Aug 28 16:39:41 psycho_oreos: OM_the_Inc is dead, OM_the_community has no resources to really build a consumer grade phone ready for primetime Aug 28 16:39:52 "Eric Schmidt has revealed that Google+ is an identity service, and the 'social network' bit is just bait. Schmidt says 'G+ is completely optional,' not mentioning that Google has admitted that deleting a G+ account will seriously downgrade your other Google services." Aug 28 16:40:58 DocScrutinizer && SpeedEvil, so in essence OM is also dead in its own tracks :( so much for high hopes.. I guess my next device maybe after N9 would probably be android based. I don't have much confidence over Samsung's phones but I guess we shall see Aug 28 16:40:59 RST38h: can you provide an URL for the full article? Aug 28 16:41:32 Venemo: that's more or less exactly what made the approach useless. Every time you need some "smart functions" you bet you don't have that tablet with you. And then there's the missing contact db integration into $dialer Aug 28 16:42:03 Choom: https://plus.google.com/u/0/117378076401635777570/posts/2y7vqXBtLny Aug 28 16:42:08 DocScrutinizer, I dunno, I think I could live with that. Aug 28 16:42:45 RST38h: thanks Aug 28 16:42:48 oh god, Google+. Aug 28 16:42:51 DocScrutinizer, but there doesn't seem to be any smartphones that could even remotely replace the N900. Even the N9(50) barely lives up to the legacy of the N900 Aug 28 16:43:22 the other day I saw something worrisome. An actual interesting geek conversation between opensource people hidden behind the Google+ walls. Aug 28 16:43:37 indeed, that's why I ponder getting a few more N900 for spare Aug 28 16:46:21 javispedro: there are always fools like the ones in German television ARD: In one program they tell how bad facebook is, in next program they tell "join us on facebook!" Aug 28 16:46:39 Doc: Facebook paid. Aug 28 16:47:32 RST38h: quite obviously. Few years ago they had the URL like http://ard.msn.com Aug 28 16:48:00 I have to say that I am finding a large bunch of supposed web forum haters in Google+, when Google+ looks to me like a large web forum. Aug 28 16:48:17 99% of the managers and executives there have no idea about IT at large Aug 28 16:49:00 javispedro: Most Net users look like aliens to me since about 3-5 years ago Aug 28 16:49:31 all lizards!!!1!11!! Aug 28 16:49:35 javispedro: I no longer understand what drives these creatures to engage into things they are engaing in (twitter, flickr, etc) Aug 28 16:49:44 Doc: lemmings, you mean? Aug 28 16:49:56 nah lizards from outer space Aug 28 16:50:08