**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Nov 07 02:59:57 2011
Nov 07 03:18:04 <sethstorm> robbiethe1st: thought that was the fall-apart one I've seen on the forums
Nov 07 03:18:15 <robbiethe1st> Dunno.
Nov 07 03:18:36 <sethstorm> I've got the PowerGen one for slightly more
Nov 07 03:19:02 <sethstorm> (not only does it charge my N900's batteries, it also does so for my N770)
Nov 07 03:19:22 <jonwil> anyone know which packages relate to the virtual keyboard stuff?
Nov 07 03:20:12 <jonwil> there are so many hildon-input packages that its hard to know which ones need cloning
Nov 07 03:20:46 <SpeedEvil> :/
Nov 07 03:54:46 <jonwil> further analysis suggests the virtual keyboard is just too hard to clone
Nov 07 03:59:11 <Macer> terrible terra belle
Nov 07 03:59:13 <Macer> hahahahahha
Nov 07 04:04:37 <SpeedEvil> :/
Nov 07 04:21:14 <Macer> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nokia-Black-N900-Fascia-Full-Housing-Case-Cover-Stylus-/220809503439?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item336945a2cf
Nov 07 04:27:28 <sethstorm> Macer: good money says it's shoddier than the original
Nov 07 04:28:36 <sethstorm> now what I would not mind seeing is whole system boards going on ebay 
Nov 07 04:28:42 <sethstorm> given the USB issues 
Nov 07 04:33:00 <jonwil> Even if the USB is totally busted, its still possible for someone with good soldering skills to repair or replace it
Nov 07 04:34:34 <whatever4ever> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-2-Wi-Fi-2GB-TV-UNLOCKED-Touch-Screen-CELL-PHONE-N900-/400241553307?pt=Cell_Phones&hash=item5d30416f9b this for real?
Nov 07 04:35:14 <whatever4ever> my n900 stopped being able to differentiate between headphones and headset. so i plug the headset in 3/4ths way in and it works as headphones, but the mic doesn't work. Can barely hear the audio when i plug it the rest of the way in
Nov 07 04:35:29 <psycho_oreos> for a fake N900 yes
Nov 07 04:36:00 <whatever4ever> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6360 this seems to be the same as what I'm experiencing... later on he says headphones are fine, but not headsets
Nov 07 04:36:02 <povbot`> 04Bug 6360: Headset problems
Nov 07 04:37:12 <sethstorm> psycho_oreos: I wonder how bad of a solder job the fake has done on the USB port
Nov 07 04:37:25 <sethstorm> or if out of all irony, they do a better one
Nov 07 04:37:32 <whatever4ever> so it runs nokia software?
Nov 07 04:37:36 <psycho_oreos> sethstorm, I wouldn't want to imagine about it at any rate
Nov 07 04:37:44 <sethstorm> whatever4ever: doubtful
Nov 07 04:37:53 <psycho_oreos> whatever4ever, it runs symbian. They dressed it up as maemo
Nov 07 04:37:58 <whatever4ever> ah
Nov 07 04:38:09 <psycho_oreos> whatever4ever, you can clearly see its fake everywhere
Nov 07 04:38:14 <whatever4ever> i wonder if i could get the headset working (see description above) if i take it apart
Nov 07 04:38:19 <sethstorm> I'd rather see a KIRF'd N950 that runs android 
Nov 07 04:38:34 <whatever4ever> ofc, n950 is real hardware
Nov 07 04:38:37 <psycho_oreos> KIRF?
Nov 07 04:38:42 <sethstorm> cloned
Nov 07 04:38:45 <sethstorm> faked
Nov 07 04:38:48 <psycho_oreos> ahh
Nov 07 04:38:58 <whatever4ever> where does 'kirf' come from
Nov 07 04:39:05 <sethstorm> "keeping it real fake"
Nov 07 04:39:26 <whatever4ever> hah
Nov 07 04:39:48 <psycho_oreos> its sure to get some wannabe buying it thinking they have a genuine device
Nov 07 04:40:52 <sethstorm> either way, I'd not touch it with a 10' pole
Nov 07 04:41:29 <Macer> jonwil: there are far and few who can fix that port
Nov 07 04:41:30 <psycho_oreos> I wouldn't even touch it any rate regardless how far I am even with wearing radioactive hazchem suit
Nov 07 04:41:38 <Macer> especially if the copper comes off the board
Nov 07 04:41:44 <Macer> :)
Nov 07 04:42:00 <Macer> sethstorm: i'm sure it is as well
Nov 07 04:42:08 <psycho_oreos> I wrote on a thread on tmo a few months ago how does one easily distinguish a fake N900 and a real N900
Nov 07 04:42:08 <Macer> but still need to get backup parts
Nov 07 04:42:19 <Macer> psycho_oreos: lol... what is the main difference?
Nov 07 04:42:35 <whatever4ever> one runs wince
Nov 07 04:42:39 <whatever4ever> heh
Nov 07 04:42:45 <Macer> hahahah
Nov 07 04:42:50 <psycho_oreos> no, hacked symbian.. they call it MTX or some crap
Nov 07 04:43:02 <Macer> hacked symbian to look like maemo?
Nov 07 04:43:07 <whatever4ever> fuck, just bought a 30$ wired headset for this
Nov 07 04:43:11 <whatever4ever> and it doesnt work
Nov 07 04:43:16 <Macer> made in china
Nov 07 04:43:25 <whatever4ever> thinking it is hardware issue as per the bug pasted above
Nov 07 04:43:30 <psycho_oreos> I don't think there's a main difference, in fact there's too many obvious differences in the link whatever4ever pastd
Nov 07 04:43:31 <Macer> i ordered a charger for BL-5J batteries
Nov 07 04:43:38 <Macer> and the seller had a giant "US SELLER"
Nov 07 04:43:42 <Macer> all over the item
Nov 07 04:43:45 <psycho_oreos> s/pastd/pasted/
Nov 07 04:43:47 <infobot> psycho_oreos meant: I don't think there's a main difference, in fact there's too many obvious differences in the link whatever4ever pasted
Nov 07 04:43:49 <Macer> and the payment went to .hk 
Nov 07 04:43:50 <Macer> hahahh
Nov 07 04:43:57 <Macer> i think this is the last time i use ebay :)
Nov 07 04:44:04 <sethstorm> Macer: now what's with the ESD issue regarding the use of the alternate connectors?
Nov 07 04:44:04 <Macer> it is infested with chinese now
Nov 07 04:44:18 <psycho_oreos> its not as bad as alibaba :þ
Nov 07 04:44:25 <Macer> psycho_oreos: yes it is
Nov 07 04:44:45 <Macer> and getting worse every day
Nov 07 04:44:57 <psycho_oreos> Macer, alibaba is even worse lol, no buyer protection and probably you have to buy it in lots of how much
Nov 07 04:44:58 <Macer> especially when ebay allows the chinese to plaster "US Seller" all over the place
Nov 07 04:45:05 <Macer> nor is there an easy way to block china
Nov 07 04:45:12 <Macer> ie: only show sellers from your country :)
Nov 07 04:45:27 <psycho_oreos> ebay doesn't really care, they only care about making money. That's their attitude since day one
Nov 07 04:45:32 <sethstorm> Macer: "US Seller" usually is a dead giveaway
Nov 07 04:45:50 <Macer> sethstorm: yeah i kind of figured you know.... false advertising
Nov 07 04:45:54 <Macer> played a role on ebay :)
Nov 07 04:45:57 <Macer> even tho it comes from NJ
Nov 07 04:46:05 <Macer> so i guess they slid it in on a technicality
Nov 07 04:46:18 <sethstorm> someone's Chinatown, I'd think
Nov 07 04:46:21 <psycho_oreos> and I think only dumbasses would find themselves buying a fake lookalike phone believing they got a good deal compared to a genuine
Nov 07 04:46:24 <Macer> sethstorm: haha
Nov 07 04:46:34 <Macer> psycho_oreos: uhm. i did
Nov 07 04:46:35 <Macer> :)
Nov 07 04:46:43 <Macer> i got an N900 from hk over ebay
Nov 07 04:46:45 <sethstorm> Macer: well, it would be plausible
Nov 07 04:46:46 <Macer> just recently
Nov 07 04:46:51 <Macer> $250
Nov 07 04:46:55 <Macer> seems the real deal 
Nov 07 04:46:58 <psycho_oreos> Macer, its not a fake N900 if you could use flasher :þ
Nov 07 04:47:07 <Macer> psycho_oreos: so far i haven't had a need
Nov 07 04:47:18 <Macer> but as far is it seems.. it is a real N900
Nov 07 04:47:31 <sethstorm> now is there any possible way to have a US-side N900 still have a warranty this far out 
Nov 07 04:48:14 <psycho_oreos> Macer, it pays to read the fine prints and compared it with various sources. There maybe heaps of fake N900 out there but only foolish people who cbf doing simple research gets trolled
Nov 07 04:48:37 <Macer> cbf?
Nov 07 04:48:46 <psycho_oreos> can't be fscked
Nov 07 04:49:13 <Macer> hm. what other methods are there to determining if my n900 is fake?
Nov 07 04:49:17 <Macer> so far maemo seems tip top :)
Nov 07 04:49:25 <psycho_oreos> your N900 isn't fake
Nov 07 04:49:42 <Macer> got lucky huh?
Nov 07 04:49:55 <Macer> then again.. buyer protection does come into play
Nov 07 04:49:58 <sethstorm> yup
Nov 07 04:50:02 <Macer> i would have simply fiiled a claim
Nov 07 04:50:05 <Macer> first day
Nov 07 04:50:09 <Macer> without even contacting :) 
Nov 07 04:50:23 <Macer> i am a little pissed about this charger tho... there is no way to determine if a seller is in the US
Nov 07 04:50:41 <psycho_oreos> what never ceases to surprise me is if one bought a genuine N900 and later on wanting to buy another N900, without checking the obvious differences with a real N900 buys a fake one.. or asks if its real :þ
Nov 07 04:50:41 <Macer> i found out AFTER the payment when the paypal payment went to a yahoo.hk acct
Nov 07 04:51:16 <Macer> lmao.. i wrote to the seller after i bought it saying if it is a fake just send my refund now otherwise i am going to contact nokia and file a claim with ebay once it arrives
Nov 07 04:51:23 <psycho_oreos> its not like as if you've NEVER bought a proper N900 before
Nov 07 04:51:31 <Macer> they assured me it was real.. and when i got it i was surprised it was tbh
Nov 07 04:51:42 <Macer> for $250
Nov 07 04:51:51 <Macer> amazon has new ones going for twice that price
Nov 07 04:51:54 <Macer> which is retarded
Nov 07 04:52:10 <sethstorm> managed to snag mine on ebay for $230 + shipping
Nov 07 04:52:30 <psycho_oreos> for now however, fake N900 seems to be reasonably priced. You could sort of say that's another tell tale sign as N900 hasn't deprecated to being uber cheap
Nov 07 04:53:04 <sethstorm> only downside was that the box imei didnt match, they included a non-stock battery, and that the thing only included the power cable accessory
Nov 07 04:53:22 <sethstorm> in addition to the real N900 inside
Nov 07 04:53:37 <psycho_oreos> it might even be a stolen device
Nov 07 04:53:56 <psycho_oreos> there was a tmo thread which covered that
Nov 07 04:53:58 <sethstorm> thing still has a warranty
Nov 07 04:54:17 <sethstorm> psycho_oreos: link?
Nov 07 04:54:31 <sethstorm> or at least some keywords to search
Nov 07 04:55:00 <psycho_oreos> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=78605
Nov 07 04:57:02 <Macer> heh
Nov 07 04:57:09 <Macer> i got a nokia usb cable ;)
Nov 07 04:57:11 <sethstorm> mine was thankfully not from that seller
Nov 07 04:57:47 <psycho_oreos> the seller could have been anyone.. if its a stolen device, the thief isn't only one person in this world :þ
Nov 07 04:58:02 <sethstorm> I know
Nov 07 04:59:45 <psycho_oreos> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1101641&postcount=80 <--- and here's my post in regards to distinguishing between a real and a fake N900
Nov 07 05:00:31 <Macer> lmao!
Nov 07 05:00:35 <Macer> sethstorm: mine was!
Nov 07 05:00:36 <Macer> :)
Nov 07 05:00:41 <Macer> i bought mine from cellphoneforever
Nov 07 05:00:47 <sethstorm> the interesting thing is that the new one has a slightly different FCC ID (LJPRX-51X) 
Nov 07 05:01:58 <Macer> lmao
Nov 07 05:02:01 <psycho_oreos> honestly, if you bought a real N900 and in the market to buy another N900 and if you honestly cannot tell the difference between a fake N900 and a real N900. Then I don't know who can help you. I mean really, you have a real N900 to compare it against.
Nov 07 05:02:06 <Macer> well... mine seems rather real
Nov 07 05:02:18 <psycho_oreos> sethstorm, what is the hardware revision on that device?
Nov 07 05:02:22 <Macer> it came with a real nokia headset ... and usb cable.. unfortunately.. no tv out cable
Nov 07 05:02:44 <Macer> a real charger too
Nov 07 05:02:54 <Macer> the manual was obviously chinesed 
Nov 07 05:02:56 <psycho_oreos> mine came with a dodgy (now defunct) USB cable and incompatible nokia headset
Nov 07 05:03:02 <sethstorm> psycho_oreos: 2204/nolo 1.4.14 
Nov 07 05:03:12 <psycho_oreos> that's the one I bought when I was in h.k.
Nov 07 05:03:23 <psycho_oreos> sethstorm, interesting, you have an old sticker I guess
Nov 07 05:03:29 <sethstorm> thing had PR1.3 preloaded 
Nov 07 05:03:39 <Macer> psycho_oreos: i honestly don't care about these things.. as long as the n900 is functional tbh
Nov 07 05:03:46 <Macer> even a used one is a steal at $250 :)
Nov 07 05:03:55 <sethstorm> psycho_oreos: problem is that I dont have the original box to the new one
Nov 07 05:04:03 <psycho_oreos> Macer, a stolen one on the other hand isn't a steal :þ
Nov 07 05:04:11 <sethstorm> just the box to some other out of warranty N900
Nov 07 05:04:14 <Macer> meh.. doesn't matter to me lmao
Nov 07 05:04:31 <Macer> as long as it works
Nov 07 05:04:40 <Macer> i have spare parts from my now broken one
Nov 07 05:04:59 <psycho_oreos> sethstorm, well it shouldn't matter.. I mean it could be a stolen device or the seller has too many N900 unboxed and forgot to place the N900 in the right box prior to shipping. I was thinking that you may have those `loaned' devices
Nov 07 05:05:04 <Macer> like the headphones and the vga cable
Nov 07 05:05:04 <Macer> etc
Nov 07 05:05:09 <Macer> er. tv cable
Nov 07 05:05:36 <sethstorm> psycho_oreos: the only reason it would matter is that there's some definite mfg date 
Nov 07 05:05:42 <psycho_oreos> Macer, or yes it could have been as you said before a fake N900
Nov 07 05:05:53 <Macer> psycho_oreos: i dunno :) 
Nov 07 05:05:56 <Macer> seems rather real to me
Nov 07 05:06:02 <Macer> a fake one wouldn't run maemo so well heh
Nov 07 05:06:12 <Macer> i can't see how you can fake a fully functional n900 this well
Nov 07 05:06:14 <psycho_oreos> Macer, it wouldn't run maemo at all. period
Nov 07 05:06:45 <Macer> lol. well it does. runs it quite well too :) it's so great having an n900 again
Nov 07 05:07:01 <psycho_oreos> sethstorm, true but I'm guessing 2204 is by no means released at an earlier date compared to the rest. I mean you have 2101, 2104 and other variants before that
Nov 07 05:07:04 <Macer> already bumped it up to cssu
Nov 07 05:07:28 <sethstorm> psycho_oreos: where else other than bootup would you check
Nov 07 05:07:32 <Macer> i sure hope this charger doesn't set my house on fire
Nov 07 05:07:36 <Macer> battery + charger
Nov 07 05:07:40 <Macer> for $10 
Nov 07 05:07:41 <Macer> lol
Nov 07 05:07:49 <psycho_oreos> sethstorm, for which? the mfg date? I don't think you can check it easily imo
Nov 07 05:07:58 <sethstorm> the HW revision
Nov 07 05:08:01 <Macer> oh there is one thing... the "nokia" battery is an obvious knockoff
Nov 07 05:08:14 <sethstorm> since the only way I'm getting it is with R&D mode on my new one
Nov 07 05:08:17 <psycho_oreos> sethstorm, cat /proc/cpuinfo| grep Revision && flasher -i
Nov 07 05:08:25 <sethstorm> ah
Nov 07 05:08:42 <psycho_oreos> rather flasher-3.5
Nov 07 05:09:14 <sethstorm> kinda hard to run flasher if the usb port is just 5 pads
Nov 07 05:09:42 <psycho_oreos> what's that supposed to mean? broken USB port?
Nov 07 05:09:44 <sethstorm> yes
Nov 07 05:09:56 <psycho_oreos> heh nasty, time to get it repaired imo
Nov 07 05:10:35 <Macer> i think cellphoneforever is just a flea market
Nov 07 05:10:45 <Macer> the actual company name is some sort of trading inc located in hk
Nov 07 05:10:49 <Macer> they are probably just a pawn shop
Nov 07 05:11:04 <sethstorm> psycho_oreos: if there was someone that wouldn't call it uneconomical 
Nov 07 05:12:01 <sethstorm> psycho_oreos: old one is 2101
Nov 07 05:12:23 <Macer> i'm just glad my n900 turned out ok
Nov 07 05:12:26 <psycho_oreos> it wouldn't be rare to find pawn shops selling genuine N900. When I visited there, there was plenty of stores selling N900 and the seller is trying to convince you is new. When it came to dealing with them and tinkering with the actual device. You could tell the device isn't new
Nov 07 05:12:33 <Macer> considering the reputation most of asia has for selling things
Nov 07 05:12:43 <psycho_oreos> sethstorm, exact same hw revision as my third N900
Nov 07 05:13:02 <Macer> mine is 2101 according to cpuinfo
Nov 07 05:13:13 <Macer> Serial : 000000000000000000000000
Nov 07 05:13:14 <Macer> lol
Nov 07 05:13:25 <psycho_oreos> empty Serial number is nothing new
Nov 07 05:15:07 <Macer> ah well.. i guess i will charge both batteries. i seriously want this charger to show up so i can just battery swap. i am trying to avoid as much contact as possible with the usb port
Nov 07 05:15:29 <sethstorm> Macer: is it in warranty?
Nov 07 05:15:32 <psycho_oreos> And in Hong Kong, the people are known to be extremely trendy. If you were caught having an old phone you'd be mocked by yer mates in H.K. So its probably also another logical reason why there's a fair bit of N900 second hands being sold there. The people just want to keep up with trends. 
Nov 07 05:15:38 <Macer> sethstorm: unsure
Nov 07 05:15:53 <sethstorm> www.nokiausa.com/us-en/support/troubleshooting/warranty?c=1
Nov 07 05:16:01 <Macer> psycho_oreos: that's because people in hk don't know and awesome phone when they see one
Nov 07 05:16:02 <sethstorm> that's what I've generally used for warranty queries
Nov 07 05:16:04 <Macer> lol
Nov 07 05:16:08 <psycho_oreos> Macer, fyi constant battery swap may loosen the contacts on the battery itself
Nov 07 05:16:19 <Macer> i wouldn't give up my n900 
Nov 07 05:16:31 <Macer> psycho_oreos: it's ok. i will have 3
Nov 07 05:16:43 <Macer> and since they are like $5-10 i will just order a few more
Nov 07 05:16:59 <psycho_oreos> Macer, they don't see the phone's inner beauty. They just see the phone as a means of being cool and as a fashion accessory. Much like having a trendy watch back then
Nov 07 05:17:18 <psycho_oreos> heh I would never give up my N900(s) at any rate
Nov 07 05:17:18 <Macer> so.. a city full of iphones?
Nov 07 05:17:19 <Macer> :)
Nov 07 05:17:20 <sethstorm> now what I'd like to see is something that hits the proper pins on the jig for usb, then is a very thin plastic ribbon cable that snakes around 
Nov 07 05:17:43 <Macer> sethstorm: that would be awesome
Nov 07 05:18:15 <Macer> not to mention the ribbon cable would have a lot more "give" than the port hard soldered itself
Nov 07 05:18:16 <sethstorm> but the thing is that joerg_rw was talking about protection issues
Nov 07 05:18:18 <psycho_oreos> Macer, the place that I visited (Sham Shui Po), there was like an entire street selling various electronic goods but mostly phones. I recall hearing people selling iPhones over microphones saying that you can get it at X amount of HKD$, etc
Nov 07 05:18:28 <sethstorm> if you simply used the jig ports
Nov 07 05:18:42 <Macer> you'd shock your hand? :)
Nov 07 05:18:44 <Macer> heh
Nov 07 05:18:56 <sethstorm> hmm
Nov 07 05:19:03 <sethstorm> search the USB port threads
Nov 07 05:19:22 <Macer> sethstorm: i'd rather  not.. a piece of me dies inside every time i remember the moment my usb port fell off my last n900
Nov 07 05:19:36 <Macer> it was a special kind of sadness
Nov 07 05:19:41 <sethstorm> I'm just thankful I was able to find anothre one
Nov 07 05:19:52 <sethstorm> *another
Nov 07 05:19:55 <Macer> heh
Nov 07 05:19:58 <Macer> another n900?
Nov 07 05:20:00 <psycho_oreos> also an electronic magazine me dad bought from HK has shops listed in there (in advertisement form) that you could trade in your old phone for X amounts of price. There was a list of certain phones that you could redeem as sort of a trade-in value
Nov 07 05:20:06 <Macer> me too... i am more thankful i didn't have to pay $400 for it
Nov 07 05:20:12 <sethstorm> Macer: yes
Nov 07 05:20:13 <Macer> wtf... cmon amazon.. drop the price!
Nov 07 05:20:29 <Macer> some of them on amazon are going for $500+ new
Nov 07 05:20:55 <Macer> with "minor scratches" ones going for $300+
Nov 07 05:21:14 <Macer> i am stll going to get an e7 when i get the chance
Nov 07 05:21:19 <Macer> but this week i need to buy a synology
Nov 07 05:21:34 <sethstorm> e7 the E90 successor or something?
Nov 07 05:21:41 <Macer> and 4 3TB hard drives
Nov 07 05:21:45 <Macer> i suppose
Nov 07 05:21:50 <Macer> i always considered it an N8 with a qwerty
Nov 07 05:21:57 <psycho_oreos> rubbish
Nov 07 05:22:06 <psycho_oreos> N8 has 12MP camera
Nov 07 05:22:47 <psycho_oreos> but either way, they're (E7 and N8) are both rubbish :þ
Nov 07 05:23:22 <Macer> psycho_oreos: if the e7 hits $300 or less.. i'm game :)
Nov 07 05:23:32 <psycho_oreos> Macer, gfy
Nov 07 05:23:54 * psycho_oreos would personally rather invest it to buy either N9 or somehow obtain N950 :þ
Nov 07 05:27:12 <sethstorm> the N9 reminds me of an N770 shrunk down into a phone
Nov 07 05:28:03 <Macer> i am reading this thread
Nov 07 05:28:11 <Macer> and well.. i just don't see it :) my n900 works great lol
Nov 07 05:28:42 <psycho_oreos> N9 is more like the disabled brother of N950 on 'roids
Nov 07 05:30:11 <Macer> psycho_oreos: my sticker says "made in finland"
Nov 07 05:30:14 <Macer> LOL! wooo!!
Nov 07 05:30:52 <psycho_oreos> Macer, maybe an ex `loaned' device, where did you see the sticker?
Nov 07 05:31:01 <Macer> i just took the battery out
Nov 07 05:31:22 <psycho_oreos> did it have revision number sticker stuck somewhere around there?
Nov 07 05:31:49 <Macer> i just see the sticker on it under the battery
Nov 07 05:32:06 <psycho_oreos> no no, another sticker, like yellow background with black words
Nov 07 05:32:15 <Macer> no.. ot seeing one
Nov 07 05:32:18 <Macer> not
Nov 07 05:32:21 <psycho_oreos> hmm ok
Nov 07 05:32:42 <Macer> but the main sticker says "Made in Finland"
Nov 07 05:32:46 <Macer> it is a finnish made phone!
Nov 07 05:32:47 <Macer> OMG
Nov 07 05:32:53 <psycho_oreos> <_<
Nov 07 05:32:56 <Macer> one of the rare "non-asian" phones !!
Nov 07 05:33:12 <Macer> lol
Nov 07 05:33:32 <tramp> Made in Finland?
Nov 07 05:33:47 <psycho_oreos> so as he said
Nov 07 05:33:52 <Macer> yes
Nov 07 05:34:23 <tramp> talking about the n900?
Nov 07 05:34:29 <Macer> yes
Nov 07 05:34:35 <psycho_oreos> he's probably so ecstatic about the fact that his N900 that he sourced it from HK was not made from slave labour
Nov 07 05:34:51 <Macer> psycho_oreos: yeah! how did you know??
Nov 07 05:34:52 <Macer> LOL
Nov 07 05:34:55 <tramp> lol
Nov 07 05:34:57 <Macer> that is exactly what makes it so awesome
Nov 07 05:35:07 <psycho_oreos> Macer, because nobody would be as excited as you are :þ
Nov 07 05:35:38 <tramp> true, but it is kind of cool it doesnt say Made in China on it
Nov 07 05:35:48 <Macer> korea 
Nov 07 05:35:50 <Macer> ;)
Nov 07 05:35:51 <psycho_oreos> no genuine N900 would be made in China
Nov 07 05:36:02 <Macer> N900s are made in Korea by default
Nov 07 05:36:03 <psycho_oreos> N9 however is a different story
Nov 07 05:36:13 <Macer> were
Nov 07 05:36:13 <psycho_oreos> no the production N900 were made in Korea
Nov 07 05:36:34 <Macer> how many finland n900s are there?
Nov 07 05:36:37 <psycho_oreos> `loaned' N900 were probably made in Finland
Nov 07 05:36:40 <Macer> :)
Nov 07 05:36:41 <tramp> i like the phone being quality, and china doesnt mean quality, it means cheap
Nov 07 05:36:41 <psycho_oreos> nfi
Nov 07 05:36:50 <Macer> "loaned" ... ?
Nov 07 05:36:58 <psycho_oreos> tramp, then there's iPhone
Nov 07 05:37:01 <Macer> tramp: yes... taiwan is just as bad
Nov 07 05:37:06 <psycho_oreos> Macer, DDP, like that N9 program
Nov 07 05:37:11 <Macer> htc has horrible phones
Nov 07 05:37:12 <psycho_oreos> Macer, to you it is
Nov 07 05:37:30 <Macer> the knockoff battery doesn't read its temp correctly
Nov 07 05:37:34 <Macer> i just noticed that
Nov 07 05:37:34 <psycho_oreos> err s/N9/N950/
Nov 07 05:38:05 <tramp> iPhone is made in china?
Nov 07 05:38:12 <psycho_oreos> tramp, you never realised?
Nov 07 05:38:17 <Macer> yes
Nov 07 05:38:23 <Macer> suicide factory capital of the world
Nov 07 05:38:26 <tramp> once i saw n900 i never looked
Nov 07 05:38:31 <Macer> foxconn makes them
Nov 07 05:38:34 <psycho_oreos> tramp, well not all of the component is but I'd dare say most of the components were made there anyway
Nov 07 05:38:54 <psycho_oreos> no Foxconn made the semiconductors and assembled them together
Nov 07 05:39:07 <Macer> oh i thought they assembled the actual iphones
Nov 07 05:39:10 <psycho_oreos> well mostly semiconductors actually
Nov 07 05:39:23 <tramp> yeah
Nov 07 05:39:24 <psycho_oreos> I dunno, *shrugs* not that I care about iPhones that much
Nov 07 05:40:03 <tramp> just another thing to point out to iPhone fanatics
Nov 07 05:40:20 <Macer> my knockoff BL-5J says it was made in korea
Nov 07 05:40:35 <Macer> tramp: korea isn't much better :)
Nov 07 05:40:40 <psycho_oreos> they probably wouldn't care, they'll just slam it back saying that its still designed by Apple in California
Nov 07 05:40:44 <Macer> i wouldn't be surprised if it were north korea
Nov 07 05:40:45 <Macer> heh
Nov 07 05:40:57 <psycho_oreos> mm trolling much?
Nov 07 05:40:58 <Macer> psycho_oreos: "US Seller"
Nov 07 05:41:13 <Macer> :)
Nov 07 05:41:15 <psycho_oreos> Nth Korea wouldn't be manufacturing components. I'm sure it would be South Korea if anything
Nov 07 05:41:23 <psycho_oreos> Macer, and?
Nov 07 05:41:25 <Macer> psycho_oreos: i was joking
Nov 07 05:41:30 <tramp> korea?
Nov 07 05:41:40 <tramp> too late
Nov 07 05:41:45 <psycho_oreos> Macer, like you joked about Taiwan making inferior products?
Nov 07 05:41:53 <Macer> no... i was being honest there
Nov 07 05:41:55 <Macer> :)
Nov 07 05:42:03 <tramp> lol
Nov 07 05:42:09 <psycho_oreos> Macer, you do realise most of your motherboard components are made in Taiwan
Nov 07 05:42:16 <doc|home> hey, it's not like asian countries have a monopoly on making crap products
Nov 07 05:42:18 * doc|home points to GM
Nov 07 05:42:27 <Macer> psycho_oreos: most of a lot of things are made in taiwan
Nov 07 05:42:36 <Macer> which is why i don't expect things to last longer than 5 years
Nov 07 05:42:39 <psycho_oreos> Macer, no, most of the things are made in China
Nov 07 05:42:47 <Macer> my parents have a stereo receiver from 1970
Nov 07 05:42:50 <Macer> still works
Nov 07 05:43:02 <Macer> how many receivers do you think nowadays will stand the test of time like that?
Nov 07 05:43:17 <Macer> sometimes i think these places make things fail on purpose to continue their industrial machines
Nov 07 05:43:19 <psycho_oreos> you can't compare an old product to materials being used to make the exact same product these days
Nov 07 05:43:34 <Macer> yes you can. especially with the case of stereo receivers
Nov 07 05:43:39 <Macer> they are the same size
Nov 07 05:43:40 <psycho_oreos> do you think a current modern car would actually last as long as a car from 1950?
Nov 07 05:43:47 <psycho_oreos> no
Nov 07 05:43:51 <Macer> of course not
Nov 07 05:43:57 <Macer> because of cheap parts
Nov 07 05:44:03 <Macer> cheam craftmanship
Nov 07 05:44:04 <psycho_oreos> the exact same logic applies.. over time they use cheap components
Nov 07 05:44:07 <Macer> and the expectation for them to break
Nov 07 05:44:13 <Macer> so people can buy new ones
Nov 07 05:44:21 <psycho_oreos> and its called revenue
Nov 07 05:44:27 <Macer> i guess companies realized making things work means they'll go out of business
Nov 07 05:44:42 <psycho_oreos> not much different from pharmaceutical companies
Nov 07 05:44:46 <Macer> so make it as cheaply as possible
Nov 07 05:44:56 <psycho_oreos> they don't make medicines that will cure you instantly and permanently
Nov 07 05:44:57 <Macer> psycho_oreos: yeah.. but the first pill costs a ton of money
Nov 07 05:45:06 <Macer> psycho_oreos: agreed
Nov 07 05:45:11 <Macer> a sad tactic 
Nov 07 05:45:12 <Macer> indeed
Nov 07 05:45:26 <psycho_oreos> Macer, the exact same principles apply with manufactured goods.
Nov 07 05:45:30 <psycho_oreos> Nothing changes
Nov 07 05:45:35 <Macer> the same principles apply for everything
Nov 07 05:45:45 <tramp> where can i get another n900 for a good price in the USA
Nov 07 05:45:47 <Macer> the only market this occurs naturally is in food markets
Nov 07 05:45:55 <psycho_oreos> tramp, probably tmo forums
Nov 07 05:46:08 <tramp> also, business uses cheaper components to beat other businesses prices
Nov 07 05:46:09 <Macer> electronic companies are using a food market plan :)
Nov 07 05:46:35 <psycho_oreos> tramp, not only that to have a larger revenue due to cheaper components being used
Nov 07 05:46:48 <psycho_oreos> s/that/that they/
Nov 07 05:46:49 <infobot> psycho_oreos meant: tramp, not only that they to have a larger revenue due to cheaper components being used
Nov 07 05:46:52 <Macer> tramp: they use the same components.. just bought at a cheaper price :)
Nov 07 05:46:56 <psycho_oreos> ffs
Nov 07 05:47:04 <tramp> and drugs are often herbal remedies processed and price jacked
Nov 07 05:47:05 <psycho_oreos> no not necessarily
Nov 07 05:47:23 <Macer> tramp: depends on the drug
Nov 07 05:47:28 <Macer> and lets not forget common vaccines
Nov 07 05:47:29 <Macer> :)
Nov 07 05:47:31 <psycho_oreos> they use the same components until they run out, then they look for cheaper components
Nov 07 05:47:37 <Macer> those are technically "cures"
Nov 07 05:47:51 <psycho_oreos> technically
Nov 07 05:47:54 <Macer> don't see too many kids dying of measles and small pox nowadays
Nov 07 05:47:59 <Macer> polio
Nov 07 05:48:14 <Macer> fevers used to kill people... lets hear it for asprin
Nov 07 05:48:41 <Macer> but just like the cars.. those are old cures
Nov 07 05:48:56 <psycho_oreos> and remind me again, where is medicines manufactured? oh right China it was
Nov 07 05:48:58 <Macer> and this day and age the goal is more so for the pocket than it is for society
Nov 07 05:49:00 <psycho_oreos> :þ
Nov 07 05:49:05 <Macer> it's why we aren't on mars yet
Nov 07 05:49:14 <Macer> mining
Nov 07 05:49:15 <Macer> lol
Nov 07 05:49:35 <psycho_oreos> tramp, were you looking at 2nd hands or brand new N900?
Nov 07 05:49:43 <Macer> no offense... but... capitalism does not work for a society :)
Nov 07 05:50:20 <tramp> brand new
Nov 07 05:50:32 <psycho_oreos> really hard to find brand new these days
Nov 07 05:50:44 <Macer> sure is. and if you find one it is expensive
Nov 07 05:50:53 <Macer> like buying at release date new prices
Nov 07 05:51:25 <psycho_oreos> that's if you could even get a genuinely new N900
Nov 07 05:51:32 <tramp> sometimes the rate of severe disease caused by vaccine is higher than the risk of contracting the target disease
Nov 07 05:52:16 <tramp> what about anything with a warrantee?
Nov 07 05:53:28 <psycho_oreos> I suppose if its brand spanking new, maybe the warranty will be in effect upon purchasing the equipment. I wouldn't vouch for getting a new N900 if your your new N900 is broken or made defective for instance
Nov 07 05:53:32 <tramp> on vaccines: at least i heard that on some seemingly legitimate website some time ago
Nov 07 05:53:55 <woldrich> I bought 2 n900s 6 months after release for less money than I have to pay for one 'new' today
Nov 07 05:54:07 <tramp> actually, i was thing of selling them
Nov 07 05:54:49 <psycho_oreos> woldrich, damn you're eager :D bought 2 in one go
Nov 07 05:54:50 <tramp> ppl dont know about it, so i might show them and sell them preconfigured
Nov 07 05:55:06 <tramp> if it is good
Nov 07 05:55:55 <tramp> :)
Nov 07 05:56:40 <psycho_oreos> N900 has a few hardware defects. I'd hate to imagine you selling them pre-configured and they later on come chasing back to you for fixes with defective hardware in which you did not experience it first hand
Nov 07 05:57:10 <woldrich> psycho_oreos, funny thing is that I had talked to a friend about perhaps buying the n900 when it'd drop a fairly amount in price 2 weeks earlier. Then one day I saw in the newspaper a place where you could buy 2 n900's for a price that didn't seem right... so checked the internet, and sure thing, they gave it away at half the price. 
Nov 07 05:57:24 <tramp> interesting, thank you
Nov 07 05:57:44 <tramp> what defects
Nov 07 05:57:48 <psycho_oreos> woldrich, very nice deal there. 
Nov 07 05:57:59 <woldrich> I called them and had them make sure to keep 2 n900s for us, because it was quite a bit of travel
Nov 07 05:58:21 <woldrich> because I thought, fuck, everybody will buy these now
Nov 07 05:58:33 <psycho_oreos> tramp, USB port becoming loose on certain N900. headset/headphone jack not working properly. SIM card sometimes may not be detected.
Nov 07 05:58:40 <tramp> woldrich: how could they sell them so cheap
Nov 07 05:58:48 <woldrich> I still have no idea
Nov 07 05:58:56 <woldrich> but I didn't question them further :D
Nov 07 05:59:17 <psycho_oreos> woldrich, I'm guessing bulk order with bargaining power from maybe a shop or wholesaler
Nov 07 05:59:34 <psycho_oreos> crap.. that was meant to be directed to tramp
Nov 07 06:00:07 <tramp> psycho_oreos: if those problems are rare enough, i could replace the defective ones
Nov 07 06:00:25 <woldrich> If I had knew what a nice device is was, surely I'd have bought more
Nov 07 06:00:58 <psycho_oreos> tramp, I'm not nokia. I wouldn't know how many defective N900 are floating out there in the wild. You could end up being unfortunate to buy a bad batch of defective N900
Nov 07 06:01:21 <psycho_oreos> woldrich, well you have two already, what are you complaining about? :)
Nov 07 06:01:27 <tramp> psycho_oreos: i would love to buy a 1000 n900s but for starters i might have to go with just cheap
Nov 07 06:02:29 <psycho_oreos> tramp, well Macer pointed out earlier that brand spanking new N900 are sold what they were originally priced (so you're looking at around $500+ for a pop).
Nov 07 06:02:53 <woldrich> psycho_oreos, heh, I gave the other one away to a friend. And just as of today, his usb connector is very, very loose as well :)
Nov 07 06:03:02 <tramp> well, i can always try. and if it worked, it might raise awareness of what phones ought to be
Nov 07 06:03:17 <psycho_oreos> woldrich, ouch
Nov 07 06:03:24 <psycho_oreos> tramp, very unlikely
Nov 07 06:03:52 <psycho_oreos> a good idea is for you to try and see how N900 works out for you before you decide to resell them
Nov 07 06:04:07 <tramp> i have :)
Nov 07 06:04:16 <tramp> it works beautifully
Nov 07 06:04:30 <tramp> i have a kbd and mouse, flash drive
Nov 07 06:04:37 <woldrich> what if we mailed nokia, telling them how many n900s they could sell... surely they must still have batches of n900s in the basement or something
Nov 07 06:05:11 <tramp> ive tinkered with this powertoy for almost a year now
Nov 07 06:05:16 <woldrich> buying them directly off from nokia should mean lower prices as well
Nov 07 06:05:21 <tramp> CONSTANTLTY
Nov 07 06:05:43 <tramp> thats a good idea
Nov 07 06:05:43 <woldrich> tramp, yeah, the gameboy of the new century!
Nov 07 06:05:58 <woldrich> or gameboy for grownups
Nov 07 06:06:28 <psycho_oreos> woldrich, I doubt that would be the case. There were many N900 owners/ex-owners reporting that they get E7/N8 as an `equivalent' replacement for their dead/faulty N900. Of course some still try to fight against the flaws found in nokia care's contract thing but even at that I still doubt you'd be able to get N900 easily
Nov 07 06:06:33 <tramp> YES!
Nov 07 06:07:06 <woldrich> psycho_oreos, but why? why doesn't nokia want to sell me the shit they've made that I want?
Nov 07 06:07:26 <woldrich> fucking nokia you make absolutely no sense these days
Nov 07 06:07:32 <tramp> that YES was for woldrich 
Nov 07 06:07:42 <psycho_oreos> tramp, to me I find N900 is more of a geek's toy. Had nokia been that successful with N900, they wouldn't have killed the platform. 
Nov 07 06:08:03 <tramp> so sad
Nov 07 06:08:08 <psycho_oreos> woldrich, it has been making no sense the last fair few years :)
Nov 07 06:08:34 <tramp> and no one ever knew it was actually a small laptop
Nov 07 06:08:47 <psycho_oreos> s/sense/sense since/
Nov 07 06:08:47 <infobot> psycho_oreos meant: woldrich, it has been making no sense since the last fair few years :)
Nov 07 06:09:06 <woldrich> s/(fucking)/stupid, \1/
Nov 07 06:09:13 <woldrich> :(
Nov 07 06:09:18 <tramp> what happened since the fair?
Nov 07 06:10:21 <psycho_oreos> tramp, to those who find N900 as a small computer would have most likely kept it. Its unlikely that those same set of people would be buying another N900 or would want to buy them pre-configured (not to mention if there's an extra fee for having them pre-configured that way)
Nov 07 06:11:07 <psycho_oreos> woldrich, fyi the bot doesn't do complex regexp like a regular *nix would do :)
Nov 07 06:11:43 <woldrich> psycho_oreos, that's too bad. I wanted to try  /e ;)
Nov 07 06:12:12 <tramp> look man, this device is the closest thing we've got to controlling our phones, and theyre trying to go backward. Well, don't let them!
Nov 07 06:12:19 <psycho_oreos> its not the fair, trump. I meant for god knows when has nokia been making any sense. Could have been for the last maybe 3 years
Nov 07 06:12:53 <psycho_oreos> tramp, goes back to what you said not long ago.. you can only try.. I'm just stating that I'm doubtful
Nov 07 06:14:24 <tramp> some ppl who want to use it as a computer would pay an extra fee if it was setup right for it and supported by the distributor
Nov 07 06:14:38 <tramp> i understand your doubts
Nov 07 06:14:50 <tramp> i have them too
Nov 07 06:16:08 <tramp> when i flash my phone, i have to install a plethora of packages and change many settings
Nov 07 06:16:43 <tramp> copy over the keyboard config i spent a day making...
Nov 07 06:17:28 <tramp> figuring out how to get things working normally took a lot of time
Nov 07 06:17:41 <tramp> like the svn segfault...
Nov 07 06:18:05 <tramp> the gnu programs path problems
Nov 07 06:18:17 <tramp> ...for different software
Nov 07 06:19:29 <tramp> i would spend an extra 50 or 100 dollars if it saved me all that frustration
Nov 07 06:19:57 <tramp> if i KNEW it would save me that frustration
Nov 07 06:20:31 <Macer> is there an amp that shows real time percentage of the battery charge?
Nov 07 06:20:38 <Macer> app
Nov 07 06:20:51 <Macer> the battery widget only shows the last known charge while it is charging
Nov 07 06:21:03 <tramp> yes, its an applet. you hit the battery to see it
Nov 07 06:21:04 <Macer> an applet that shows percentage would be nice
Nov 07 06:21:21 <psycho_oreos> advanced-power
Nov 07 06:21:29 <tramp> thats it
Nov 07 06:21:56 <psycho_oreos> it can fail to work sometimes
Nov 07 06:22:04 <tramp> i have that and 30 other programs written somewhere
Nov 07 06:22:17 <tramp> on my flash drive
Nov 07 06:23:13 <tramp> fail to work sometimes?
Nov 07 06:23:32 <tramp> what does it do?
Nov 07 06:23:53 <psycho_oreos> you get grey battery icon when you have rebooted your device.. happens when you use extras-devel version
Nov 07 06:24:42 <tramp> oh, well pin your apt sources to the stable repos. i never had that problem
Nov 07 06:25:28 <Macer> now i don't have a battery icon at the top :)
Nov 07 06:25:30 <Macer> ol
Nov 07 06:25:31 <Macer> lol
Nov 07 06:25:47 <psycho_oreos> the stable version doesn't allow you to switch between the BME
Nov 07 06:25:49 <tramp> at least i dont remember i dont remember having that problem
Nov 07 06:25:58 <psycho_oreos> Macer, reinstall that program again, and it should reappear
Nov 07 06:26:31 <tramp> switch between the BME..what is that good for?
Nov 07 06:26:59 <tramp> Macer: i would say restart
Nov 07 06:27:41 <psycho_oreos> there's an alternative BME which works better in some other cases than the standard nokia BME
Nov 07 06:28:15 <tramp> does it fix the usb host mode problem?
Nov 07 06:28:53 <tramp> oh god this webpage looks like it says yes!
Nov 07 06:29:11 <Macer> is there a way to add "reboot" to the power menu
Nov 07 06:29:21 <psycho_oreos> not sure, not that I've tried the alternative BME but ShadowJK has a script that could handle USB host mode problem such as the false meter reading from battery when the device is in hostmode iinm
Nov 07 06:29:28 <tramp> this phone causes me the most joy and most pain
Nov 07 06:29:43 <psycho_oreos> Macer, you hack the systemui.xml file. Its noted in the customising N900 wiki
Nov 07 06:30:41 <Macer> lol.. really? have to go through all that?
Nov 07 06:30:48 <Macer> sounds like something that would have been added by now :)
Nov 07 06:30:52 <tramp> the false reading is bc the BME is disabled and cant update batt status
Nov 07 06:31:19 <tramp> bt-hid-scripts disables it
Nov 07 06:31:27 <psycho_oreos> Macer, it was disabled by default probably because its not meant to be used by those who don't know what they are doing
Nov 07 06:32:12 <tramp> it is added Macer, you just have to get ur phone from Tramp PowerPhones XD
Nov 07 06:32:24 <psycho_oreos> tramp, well I'm sure ShadowJK's script may circumvent that issue. DocScrutinizer51 pointed it out on that USB hostmode thread
Nov 07 06:32:41 <Macer> rebooting? :)
Nov 07 06:32:48 <psycho_oreos> and N900 isn't a phone :þ
Nov 07 06:33:05 <Macer> yes it is
Nov 07 06:33:17 <tramp> yeah, i dont see anything wrong with a reboot button
Nov 07 06:33:25 <tramp> no its not my bad
Nov 07 06:33:26 <psycho_oreos> where's the built-in MMS functionality Macer?
Nov 07 06:33:32 <tramp> n900 is no phone
Nov 07 06:33:39 <Macer> it's in fmms :-P
Nov 07 06:33:46 <psycho_oreos> Macer, that's not built-in
Nov 07 06:33:49 <Macer> android didn't have built in mms either when it first came out
Nov 07 06:34:00 <Macer> had maemo gone a little longer i am sure fmms would have been integrated
Nov 07 06:34:06 <Macer> but it was short lived
Nov 07 06:34:06 <psycho_oreos> Macer, where's the portrait mode?
Nov 07 06:34:19 <Macer> why does a phone require portrait mode to be considered a phone?
Nov 07 06:34:24 <Macer> where is landscape mode on a lot of phones? :)
Nov 07 06:34:28 <psycho_oreos> smartphones by default display things in portrait
Nov 07 06:34:37 <Macer> that is the norm yes.. but so what
Nov 07 06:34:46 <Macer> there is no law requiring phones display in portrait mode
Nov 07 06:34:53 <Macer> not to mention cssu allows it to flip
Nov 07 06:34:59 <tramp> i hated how my droid would flop my screen when i layed down
Nov 07 06:35:03 <Macer> and the phone app also flips when making VOICE CALLS
Nov 07 06:35:08 <psycho_oreos> yeah but CSSU is not by nokia
Nov 07 06:35:11 <Macer> :) like on a phone
Nov 07 06:35:22 <psycho_oreos> Macer, EXCEPT every other things
Nov 07 06:35:25 <Macer> the phone app always flipped
Nov 07 06:35:31 <Macer> even when nokia made it
Nov 07 06:35:32 <Macer> AND
Nov 07 06:35:39 <tramp> it doesnt have to by nokia thats the beaut of the n900 XD
Nov 07 06:35:40 <Macer> nokia kept a "hack" in there to do it
Nov 07 06:35:45 <Macer> which required a keypress 
Nov 07 06:35:46 <psycho_oreos> and no, with CSSU you can still lock the phone program in landscape mode
Nov 07 06:36:13 <tramp> are you not a proud n900 owner psycho_oreos ?
Nov 07 06:36:16 <Macer> sorry.. but if it has a cell modem and built in voice calling capabilities.. it is a phone
Nov 07 06:36:42 <Macer> anything that uses a cellular network for making voice phone calls can be considered a phone
Nov 07 06:36:47 <tramp> the n900 is a computer with cellular capabilities
Nov 07 06:36:59 <Macer> or a phone with computer capabilities
Nov 07 06:37:04 <psycho_oreos> tramp, that doesn't have anything to do with me being proud of my N900. N900 at the end of the day is not a phone. It has a portion of phone functionality but that does not automagically makes it a phone
Nov 07 06:37:07 <Macer> :) 
Nov 07 06:37:15 <psycho_oreos> Macer, anything simplified to you is a phone
Nov 07 06:37:21 <tramp> no a computer with phone bilities :)
Nov 07 06:37:24 <psycho_oreos> yeah lets just stereotype
Nov 07 06:37:29 <Macer> tastes great!
Nov 07 06:37:33 <Macer> less filling!
Nov 07 06:37:38 <Macer> lmao
Nov 07 06:37:43 <Macer> old argument
Nov 07 06:38:00 <Macer> psycho_oreos: if i install nitdroid on my phone and it does all these things you say qualifies it to be a phone then is it a phone?
Nov 07 06:38:01 <psycho_oreos> indeed, and you're the one babbling how it is a phone when I said it isn't
Nov 07 06:38:31 <psycho_oreos> Macer, installing nitdroid has nothing to do with N900 being a phone. The device BY DEFAULT, BY DESIGN is not a PURE PHONE
Nov 07 06:38:47 <tramp> so what is your trouble with the n900 psycho_oreos ?
Nov 07 06:38:48 <Macer> so software dictates if a phone is a phone?
Nov 07 06:38:54 <Macer> :)
Nov 07 06:39:03 <psycho_oreos> Macer, that's called programmer error :þ
Nov 07 06:39:03 <Macer> and not the hardware intent
Nov 07 06:39:24 <psycho_oreos> tramp, follow the argument
Nov 07 06:39:32 <Macer> no.. it's called maemo users not wanting to just give up the NITs
Nov 07 06:39:37 <Macer> change is difficult
Nov 07 06:39:38 <Macer> ask obama
Nov 07 06:39:48 <psycho_oreos> lucky for me to not live in US :þ
Nov 07 06:39:56 <Macer> this advanced power only shows the percentage when not charging
Nov 07 06:40:02 <Macer> it has an infinity symbol lol
Nov 07 06:40:24 <Macer> which is misleading because eventually there will be no power in the universe
Nov 07 06:40:48 <psycho_oreos> maybe you can voice your concern to the appropriate maintainer instead
Nov 07 06:40:49 <tramp> no
Nov 07 06:41:42 <Macer> entropy always wins
Nov 07 06:42:00 <Macer> i was just hoping to have something that shows where the phone is WHILE it is charging
Nov 07 06:42:12 <tramp> see, though energy increases in entropy, there is infinite energy so the postulate that the universe will eventually expire is fallacious :)
Nov 07 06:42:18 <psycho_oreos> so go write your own
Nov 07 06:42:31 <ShadowJK> the default meter isn't updated while charging
Nov 07 06:42:33 <Macer> energy doesn't increase... it remains the same
Nov 07 06:42:52 <Macer> it only spreads
Nov 07 06:43:15 <tramp> i meant the entrpy of it reaching equillibrium
Nov 07 06:43:27 <ShadowJK> the hwmeter is, but its calibration is off by about 40% by default, and nothing uses it
Nov 07 06:43:50 <tramp> and i think the batt status is hard to measure when it's charging
Nov 07 06:44:08 <Macer> but space itself is in constant increase of volume thus requiring infinate time to reach equillibrium
Nov 07 06:44:12 <ShadowJK> and even less things use the modem's meter, and it seems even more random
Nov 07 06:44:33 <Macer> but then again.. if you're a strings fan.. then the matter repulsion between branes should be low enough for another big bang :)
Nov 07 06:45:29 <Macer> ShadowJK: i see. so no real time charge info ?
Nov 07 06:45:32 <ruskie> http://freecode.com/projects/deforaos-phone
Nov 07 06:46:05 <tramp> increasing volume no decrease entropy, only increase matter
Nov 07 06:46:59 <tramp> infobot, make that make sense
Nov 07 06:46:59 <infobot> make: *** No rule to make target `that make sense'.  Stop.
Nov 07 06:47:11 <tramp> urgh
Nov 07 06:47:14 <woldrich> infobot, make world
Nov 07 06:47:14 <Macer> :) increasing volume simulates a decrease of energy due to increased entropy
Nov 07 06:47:17 <infobot> make: *** No rule to make target `world'.  Stop.
Nov 07 06:47:27 <Macer> matter never increases nor does energy
Nov 07 06:47:32 <Macer> but space does
Nov 07 06:47:44 <tramp> next up: hacking infobot
Nov 07 06:48:31 <tramp> space wont prevent energy equilibrium
Nov 07 06:48:48 <tramp> infobot ls
Nov 07 06:48:49 <Macer> like i said tho.. matter repulsion between P-Branes would decrease to the point where another collision would occur and cause a new big bang 
Nov 07 06:48:49 <infobot> bash: ls: permission denied
Nov 07 06:48:59 <ShadowJK> the hwmeter(bq27200) does it. There's no sane way to integrate its data in the UI though.
Nov 07 06:49:19 <Macer> ShadowJK: ah ok. :-/ ah well.. it is one of those cosmetic things
Nov 07 06:49:36 <Macer> i suppose i can just wait for the pretty light to turn green ;)
Nov 07 06:49:47 <tramp> then the matter on the skirts would die and we'd have to move ever inward in the universe
Nov 07 06:49:58 <tramp> ...to survive
Nov 07 06:50:17 <Macer> lol. there would be no way to survive that
Nov 07 06:51:18 <tramp> yeah we can just ride to the next bang. assuming there even is a bang
Nov 07 06:51:23 <Macer> depending on the multi-dimentional "position" of the collision.. everything would pretty much be destroyed anyways... if anything probably by the creation of new anti-matter.. which somewhat shows the reason behind matter surviving what we consider the "first" big bang
Nov 07 06:52:13 <Macer> dimensional
Nov 07 06:52:18 <psycho_oreos> ruskie, got a precompiled deb for that? ;)
Nov 07 06:52:19 <Macer> arg
Nov 07 06:52:54 <tramp> i dont think we really understand any of this conjecture, but we need to find out. the sake of the universe is at hand
Nov 07 06:53:16 <Macer> yes.. and when it does make it there... i want my fking n900 to show me how much of a battery charge i have!
Nov 07 06:53:22 <Macer> :)
Nov 07 06:53:39 <Macer> only then can we advance to understand the universe as a whole
Nov 07 06:54:14 <Macer> damnit... i miss lcuk... he would have gotten the joke :-/
Nov 07 06:54:46 * Macer puts his n900 death ray away and goes to watch movies about nazis
Nov 07 06:54:48 <tramp> what is hwmeter? does it replace advanced-power
Nov 07 06:55:53 <tramp> and if you dont like capitalism propose something better
Nov 07 06:56:01 <tramp> :)
Nov 07 06:57:02 <Macer> hitler lost ;)
Nov 07 06:58:12 <tramp> there is surprisingly a lack of information on hwmeter
Nov 07 06:58:17 <Macer> not that i was a big fan of the holocaust or anti-semitism.. but nazi germany had a good thing going if you exclude the racism
Nov 07 07:02:18 <cehteh> such as?
Nov 07 07:02:41 <ShadowJK> it's a hardware chip called bq27200
Nov 07 07:02:46 <ShadowJK> it sits unused
Nov 07 07:04:08 <ShadowJK> I have a shell script that reads info from it
Nov 07 07:05:29 <tramp> oh bq27200, reminds me of my old droid chip
Nov 07 07:05:40 <tramp> wifi chip
Nov 07 07:05:49 <ShadowJK> http://enivax.net/jk/bq.tar - needs root, untar it in root's homedir (where you end up after tping 'root' (rootsh from extras needed)), ./bq27200.sh for one-time detailed output, './bq27200.sh 5' for continuous status output.
Nov 07 07:06:26 <ShadowJK> Comes 40% miscalibrated from factory
Nov 07 07:06:27 <tramp> what does it do
Nov 07 07:07:05 <ShadowJK> real-time (well, 5sec interval) voltage, charge-level and charge/discharge rate view
Nov 07 07:07:12 <tramp> bc i dont always run programs to find out what they do
Nov 07 07:07:53 <tramp> is it in the repo?
Nov 07 07:07:58 <ShadowJK> no
Nov 07 07:08:20 <ShadowJK> I don't know how to package stuff
Nov 07 07:08:51 <tramp> i tried packaging stuff from my phone, but i broke it.
Nov 07 07:09:16 <tramp> im going to try again soon
Nov 07 07:09:32 <ShadowJK>       mv   RSOC CSOC mA   NAC  CACD CACT TTF   TTE   TEMP EDV1 LOW
Nov 07 07:09:34 <ShadowJK> 09:07 4097 67   67   636  808  808  808  55    65535 42  0
Nov 07 07:10:42 <tramp> im not sure what i should do with a voltage reading
Nov 07 07:10:49 <tramp> maybe if i was overclocking..hm
Nov 07 07:10:50 <ShadowJK> Time 09:07, battery voltage is 4097 milliVolts, battery charge state is 67% or 808 mAh, currently charging at 636nA, time to full 55 minutes. Internal temperature 42C.
Nov 07 07:11:02 <ShadowJK> 636mA*
Nov 07 07:11:16 <tramp> oh nice!
Nov 07 07:11:52 * tramp scrolls back up to link
Nov 07 07:12:16 <tramp> can we get this reading into the applet?
Nov 07 07:12:35 <tramp> are there any known issues?
Nov 07 07:12:40 <ShadowJK> I'm not familiar with advanced-power
Nov 07 07:13:05 <tramp> if it was a lib, maybe advanced-power maintainer will hook it
Nov 07 07:13:24 <ShadowJK> It probably doesn't work in some versions of kernel-power becuse kp has a module that reserves the hardware resources
Nov 07 07:14:05 <tramp> how hard would it to fix that?
Nov 07 07:14:56 <tramp> i mean, can it be made compatible on hwmeter's side?
Nov 07 07:15:13 <tramp> kp is important to a lot of ppl
Nov 07 07:15:15 <ShadowJK> that kernel module can provide some of the same information, but it's kinda unknown if it's safe or not to have both bme and kernel accessing same hw resources at the same time. Pretty sure it's safe for two userspace non-kernel apps though
Nov 07 07:15:44 <vdv> if i'm trying to build a project for maemo target (from qtsdk/qtcreator) i get "'class QList<QString>' has no member named 'reserve'" error
Nov 07 07:16:01 <vdv> qt project
Nov 07 07:16:07 <vdv> for simulator target build runs normally
Nov 07 07:16:15 <tramp> on what line
Nov 07 07:16:16 <vdv> and building in scratchbox (maemo sdk) is also ok
Nov 07 07:16:34 <vdv> but would get it work from qtcreator
Nov 07 07:16:45 <vdv> something related here: http://web.archiveorange.com/archive/v/6jz3kXvHh553w3Wa0wpS
Nov 07 07:17:03 <vdv> i.e. seems that include dir of my system qt (4.6.2) is messed up with qt for fremantle
Nov 07 07:17:21 <tramp> why not build it from scratchbox
Nov 07 07:17:30 <Macer> 40% miscalibrated?
Nov 07 07:17:33 <Macer> why?
Nov 07 07:19:00 <tramp> i havent used qtcreator
Nov 07 07:19:48 <tramp> except once in college but that was a long time ago and it was
Nov 07 07:20:19 <tramp> i dont want to talk about it
Nov 07 07:20:25 <ShadowJK> It's calibrated for 2000mAh battery. Either they were planning to use a bigger battery, or the chips come set for 2Ah from TI by default. In any case, since they didn't have time to actually use the chip it was left with the incorrect settings
Nov 07 07:21:10 <ShadowJK> it's fixed in harmattan allegedly ;-)
Nov 07 07:21:56 <tramp> cant you figure the true numbers from the builtin ones
Nov 07 07:23:10 <Macer> they should have used a larger battery
Nov 07 07:23:26 <ShadowJK> You need to hookup equipment to the chip in question in order to change its settings
Nov 07 07:23:52 <Macer> why not just adjust the program for the calibration?
Nov 07 07:24:11 <tramp> tweak your phone for max batt life, or buy one from me
Nov 07 07:24:21 <Macer> heh
Nov 07 07:24:30 <ShadowJK> There's another way which involves killing bme so the chip is allowed to self-adjust itself, it's designed to constantly learn and adjust battery capacity as a battery degrades with time, but bme shuts down phone too early
Nov 07 07:24:35 <tramp> :)
Nov 07 07:24:39 <Macer> yeah.. get someone to mae a 2aH battery 
Nov 07 07:25:08 <Macer> make
Nov 07 07:25:21 <ShadowJK> there's a 2.4Ah battery
Nov 07 07:25:27 <ShadowJK> double thick :)
Nov 07 07:25:29 <Macer> bme seems to be a pain overall
Nov 07 07:25:36 <jonwil> I suspect that most of what BME does is overkill and could have been done at a much lower level
Nov 07 07:25:43 <jonwil> though this charging chip
Nov 07 07:25:54 <Macer> watching the meego guys deal with bme and the nitdroid guys.. it was always fun
Nov 07 07:25:56 <tramp> ShadowJK: just compute the true values from the old ones, assuming you know the batts max capacity etc
Nov 07 07:26:44 <Macer> i think it is funny that when your battery is completely dead bme can't seem to get to a point where it charges
Nov 07 07:26:48 <tramp> no need to overwite anything..
Nov 07 07:27:16 <tramp> what Macer 
Nov 07 07:27:26 <ShadowJK> Macer; no that works fine
Nov 07 07:28:02 <Macer> tramp: have you ever had your phone reboot 20 times to try to start charging? :)
Nov 07 07:28:31 <Macer> hm. my battery widget is reading the pattery temp at -40C again
Nov 07 07:28:55 <tramp> ShadowJK: e.g. 2000mAh is default, if 1000mAh is the true value, then divide all your measurements by two
Nov 07 07:29:22 <Macer> if it has this good of a voltage at -40C imagine what it will do at room temp
Nov 07 07:29:28 <Macer> tramp: it's 1350 isn't it?
Nov 07 07:29:43 <Macer> most will probably hit 1250-1300 
Nov 07 07:29:49 <ShadowJK> tramp; though if chip has somehow completed a learning cycle it'll then be off by 1/6th less than before :P
Nov 07 07:29:52 <tramp> that sounds right since he said 40 percwent off
Nov 07 07:30:14 <ShadowJK> 2000/1320
Nov 07 07:30:37 <ShadowJK> my 1 year old Nokia original is down to about 1100mAh now
Nov 07 07:30:44 <HaXeri> i try to download psx4all maemo edition but the installtion process fails for some reason
Nov 07 07:30:56 <HaXeri> where to find compatible binaries?
Nov 07 07:31:08 <tramp> are you saying the 2000mAh changes after a learning cycle
Nov 07 07:31:12 <HaXeri> i have newest stable maemo5 release
Nov 07 07:31:32 <HaXeri> do i have to enable extras-devel to install it
Nov 07 07:31:44 <ShadowJK> tramp: yes
Nov 07 07:32:25 <tramp> ShadowJK: how do you know what its at? you could just set that in hwmeter settings maybe?
Nov 07 07:32:45 <tramp> ShadowJK: ah ok
Nov 07 07:32:57 <ShadowJK> ./bq27200.sh without a number. "Last Measured Discharge"
Nov 07 07:33:12 <tramp> HaXeri: what does it say
Nov 07 07:33:34 <Macer> ShadowJK: 1100 is kind of low :)
Nov 07 07:34:52 <tramp> Macer: i never experienced rebooting when charging, maybe its bc you keep your batt in a deep freezer
Nov 07 07:35:16 <Macer> you just haven't managed to completely drain it yet
Nov 07 07:35:21 <Macer> some day it will happen
Nov 07 07:35:23 <Macer> :)
Nov 07 07:35:58 <tramp> HaXeri: you said the installation fails for some reason. what reason is that?
Nov 07 07:36:05 <Macer> i wonder if my phone was made with a stronger usb port since it was made in finland :)
Nov 07 07:36:37 <tramp> not all n900s are made in finland?
Nov 07 07:36:56 <Macer> i would assume very few were made in finland
Nov 07 07:36:59 <Macer> and most in korea
Nov 07 07:37:06 <ShadowJK> When completely drained the hw will independelt ycharge battery until there's enough to boot os, nolo then holds off booting linux until it thinks there's enough, linux is booted and bme takes over, act_dead mode shows charging notification and blinks led
Nov 07 07:37:20 <tramp> ive drained my batt beyond the autoshutdown limit b4
Nov 07 07:37:52 <tramp> how did you fix your 20 reboots?
Nov 07 07:38:00 <Macer> ShadowJK: i've had my hardware stuck on stupid one time
Nov 07 07:38:04 <ShadowJK> installing power-kernel, multiboot, uboot and similar things seem to cause autoreboots in act_dead mode :P
Nov 07 07:38:06 <Macer> tramp: honestly.. just let it keep rebooting
Nov 07 07:38:23 <Macer> eventually... it caught
Nov 07 07:38:40 <Macer> maybe it was beause it was an asian made n900 :-P
Nov 07 07:39:56 <tramp> ShadowJK sounded right, it should charge even if the device cant run
Nov 07 07:40:10 <ShadowJK> both my made in koreas do it fine
Nov 07 07:42:17 * psycho_oreos personally cannot wait for the next retarded comment sprouting out of Macer's mouth
Nov 07 07:42:49 <tramp> lol
Nov 07 07:44:17 <psycho_oreos> Maybe decades in time he'll be sprouting nonsense about made in Africa, probably in clutches too
Nov 07 07:44:25 <tramp> hey, if i make money selling preconfigured n900s, can i pay you to finish hwmeter?
Nov 07 07:45:24 <tramp> how do you justify an open source software expense in business?
Nov 07 07:46:15 <ShadowJK> you mean you can actually obtain working N900s?
Nov 07 07:48:05 <tramp> yes
Nov 07 07:48:26 <tramp> but dont buy them i might need them
Nov 07 07:48:41 <psycho_oreos> yes, mum
Nov 07 07:48:57 <tramp> \./
Nov 07 07:50:05 * psycho_oreos contemplates of buying yet another one.. this time from amazon ;p
Nov 07 07:50:23 <psycho_oreos> one less N900 for you ;p
Nov 07 07:54:32 <tramp> lol
Nov 07 07:56:00 <tramp> you just bought an n900 out of spite?
Nov 07 07:57:38 <Macer> lol
Nov 07 07:58:30 <Macer> psycho_oreos: sorry but when comparing the origin of products most of asia is not too high on the quality list
Nov 07 07:59:03 <Macer> and unfortunately... most if not all phones come from asia
Nov 07 07:59:23 <Macer> and marked up 1000%
Nov 07 07:59:39 <Macer> based on pretty lights and animations
Nov 07 07:59:53 <psycho_oreos> tramp, I could have just to piss you off but then I could be completely sarcastic.. (note the hint on: yes, mum)
Nov 07 07:59:59 <tramp> and the english language support
Nov 07 08:00:14 <Macer> heh
Nov 07 08:00:53 <psycho_oreos> Macer, marking it up is not the fault of the quality.. sure some countries do not have proper QA but that's the original manufacturer at fault for not properly caring about QA let alone worker safety. They all care about money at the end of the day
Nov 07 08:01:16 <tramp> dont be embarassed you can pretend im your mum
Nov 07 08:01:19 <tramp> its ok
Nov 07 08:01:21 <Macer> hm. my original battery is 1220mAh
Nov 07 08:01:47 <psycho_oreos> tramp, no thanks. I am quite happy with my mum as it is :þ
Nov 07 08:02:01 <tramp> really?
Nov 07 08:02:23 <psycho_oreos> -> #offtopic
Nov 07 08:02:25 <Macer> psycho_oreos: exactly. make a lot. if break. replace. <- asian manufacturing mantra
Nov 07 08:03:01 <psycho_oreos> Macer, if it wasn't for the westerner's concept of having a manufacturing line no?
Nov 07 08:03:23 <psycho_oreos> where's the love, care and attention to detail these days? thrown out the window
Nov 07 08:03:39 <Macer> sure has been
Nov 07 08:04:02 <Macer> recalls are cheaper nowadays
Nov 07 08:04:08 <Macer> because of cheap parts
Nov 07 08:04:16 <Macer> cheaply made everything
Nov 07 08:04:22 <tramp> psycho_oreos: you mean mass production?
Nov 07 08:04:27 <psycho_oreos> and lets just go mock some asian country because their QA is completely off the scale and that they operate in sweatshops
Nov 07 08:04:35 <Macer> i would pay a premium on a non asian made phone any day
Nov 07 08:04:52 <psycho_oreos> tramp, or that
Nov 07 08:04:57 <tramp> LOL Macer 
Nov 07 08:05:06 <Macer> of course :) slaves usually only care about the stick and not the carrot
Nov 07 08:05:26 <tramp> so youre dogging the industrial revolution?
Nov 07 08:05:49 <psycho_oreos> Macer, I totally love your idea, but I'm sure nokia wouldn't satisfy your needs. Neither would 85% of the manufactured goods would
Nov 07 08:06:05 <vdv> hi all
Nov 07 08:06:06 <psycho_oreos> tramp, don't blame me for someone who decides to mock about cheap labour
Nov 07 08:06:09 <Macer> i can buy US food ;)
Nov 07 08:06:55 <vdv> anyone here using qtsdk/qtcreator to build a qt project for maemo?
Nov 07 08:06:58 <psycho_oreos> Macer, and US clothing? and cars made and assembled in US? and computer that has all the materials made n US?
Nov 07 08:07:06 <Macer> nope
Nov 07 08:07:08 <psycho_oreos> s/made n/made in/
Nov 07 08:07:10 <infobot> psycho_oreos meant: Macer, and US clothing? and cars made and assembled in US? and computer that has all the materials made in US?
Nov 07 08:07:17 <vdv> and was it successfull?
Nov 07 08:07:31 <Macer> but we still sell crude raw materials and food.. at least we have that
Nov 07 08:07:38 <Macer> blame the epa
Nov 07 08:08:02 <Macer> china will kill its own people and ruin the planet for its "revolution"
Nov 07 08:08:22 <Macer> keep its yuan overvalued
Nov 07 08:08:28 <tramp> O.o
Nov 07 08:08:42 <Macer> all for the sake of a cheaply made iphone
Nov 07 08:08:49 <tramp> where are you from Macer 
Nov 07 08:08:54 <Macer> marked up like Jordans
Nov 07 08:09:07 <Macer> Chicago
Nov 07 08:09:35 <psycho_oreos> and lets not forget too that the Chinese at one stage bought the US currency
Nov 07 08:09:52 <Macer> another mistakd :) china is the enemy
Nov 07 08:09:57 <Macer> mistake
Nov 07 08:10:30 <Macer> ah well.. i am honestly happy that i have a finland n900
Nov 07 08:10:31 <tramp> ...
Nov 07 08:10:43 <Macer> ironically... purchased from hk :)
Nov 07 08:10:48 <tramp> where are from psycho_oreos 
Nov 07 08:10:54 <Macer> awesome
Nov 07 08:11:11 <psycho_oreos> tramp, motherland: Taiwan; fatherland: Australia
Nov 07 08:11:16 <psycho_oreos> tramp, you?
Nov 07 08:11:22 <vdv> is it possible with qtsdk/qtcreator to build qt project for fremantle target?
Nov 07 08:11:30 <tramp> i just come from one land...
Nov 07 08:11:33 <Macer> isnt taiwan just off mainland china?
Nov 07 08:11:41 <tramp> do lands have sex?
Nov 07 08:12:04 <tramp> oh your mom and...
Nov 07 08:12:08 <tramp> oooh
Nov 07 08:12:46 <psycho_oreos> vdv, not sure, have you tried #qt though?
Nov 07 08:13:51 <tramp> psycho_oreos: i havent heard you say 'mate' once yet
Nov 07 08:14:10 <tramp> why dont u have an aussie accent
Nov 07 08:14:18 <psycho_oreos> tramp, I haven't heard your answer yet
Nov 07 08:14:52 <Macer> time to back this phone up
Nov 07 08:14:57 * tramp looks for question
Nov 07 08:15:15 <tramp> USA
Nov 07 08:15:40 <tramp> not chicago tho
Nov 07 08:16:08 <tramp> chicago says the darndest things
Nov 07 08:16:30 <psycho_oreos> tramp, well I sort of do have aussie accent and I sort of don't. Mind you Aussies aren't the only one that uses `mate' amongst the plethora of other jargons. Then again I haven't heard you saying `bro' or `buddy' either
Nov 07 08:17:25 * psycho_oreos thought the Texans were worse than Chicago but *shrugs* never been there apart from Florida
Nov 07 08:17:38 <tramp> yeah im unusual in that way
Nov 07 08:18:04 <tramp> you traced me
Nov 07 08:18:17 <psycho_oreos> wha?
Nov 07 08:18:29 <tramp> im not from texas, but close
Nov 07 08:19:09 <psycho_oreos> not saying you were, I was commenting to what you said about Chicago people say the darndest things :)
Nov 07 08:19:21 <tramp> on the internet, cultures tend to blur
Nov 07 08:20:09 <psycho_oreos> and using slangs is one way to make others guess more easier where you were from. Not that it matters but hey
Nov 07 08:20:14 <tramp> i hardly say bro, you hardly say mate, and Macer hardly ...well some are still blurring
Nov 07 08:23:10 <psycho_oreos> heh new language, Internet English? ;)
Nov 07 08:23:42 <tramp> haha
Nov 07 08:23:53 * jacekowski slaps you all
Nov 07 08:24:38 <tramp> n0 rly the interweb lang has alrdy ben inventd
Nov 07 08:25:16 * psycho_oreos sees jacekowski's hand is glowing red and is predicting that his hand will become dark purple coloured
Nov 07 08:26:10 <psycho_oreos> o gawd d shortword, i h4te 2 try n figur it all out
Nov 07 08:26:19 <tramp> no hes right, were getting stupider
Nov 07 08:27:04 <psycho_oreos> inevitably
Nov 07 08:28:28 <tramp> so we should try to reverse entropy
Nov 07 08:31:34 <tramp> macer said we need spacial expansion and a multidimensional explosion
Nov 07 08:32:19 <Macer> we will never get the job done if the spaceships are made in china
Nov 07 08:32:28 * Macer hides
Nov 07 08:33:07 <merlin1991> This channel went 100% OT
Nov 07 08:33:20 <RST38h> What job?
Nov 07 08:33:42 <RST38h> If you mean reducing world's population, exploding it in spaceships is not the most effective way.
Nov 07 08:34:08 <Macer> RST38h: preventing the destruction of the universe... luckily my n900 can teleport me to another multiverse
Nov 07 08:34:47 * Macer installs newlife from extras-multiverse
Nov 07 08:35:44 <Macer> hm.. advanced power's times are in use | idle ?
Nov 07 08:35:46 <tramp> apt-get remove newlife
Nov 07 08:36:22 <tramp> yes, is that confusing?
Nov 07 08:36:24 <Macer> idle is showing 170:00
Nov 07 08:36:33 <Macer> seems kind of low
Nov 07 08:36:34 <merlin1991> dpkg -r *life*
Nov 07 08:37:37 <merlin1991> By the way, of the currently talking people, whos's running cssu?
Nov 07 08:37:39 <Macer> but the battery widget is showing roughly 6 hours
Nov 07 08:37:46 <Macer> i am
Nov 07 08:37:56 <Macer> i think everybody here is
Nov 07 08:38:17 <RST38h> everybody I guess
Nov 07 08:38:40 * merlin1991 will need about 5 testers for the *stable* branch of cssu before unleashing it to the repos eventually
Nov 07 08:39:00 <tramp> not me
Nov 07 08:39:12 <tramp> im running stock
Nov 07 08:39:22 <tramp> just flashed
Nov 07 08:39:25 <Macer> there you go. let tramp be the tester
Nov 07 08:39:28 <Macer> lol
Nov 07 08:39:36 <merlin1991> Perfect candidate :)
Nov 07 08:39:45 <tramp> huh
Nov 07 08:39:48 <merlin1991> (reflash is needed for stable)
Nov 07 08:39:49 <tramp> uh..hehe
Nov 07 08:40:03 <Macer> im sure maemo testers are hard to come by nowadays
Nov 07 08:40:06 <tramp> ok
Nov 07 08:40:26 <tramp> glad to be of service
Nov 07 08:40:49 <Macer> just copy your backupmenu backups somewhere safe lol
Nov 07 08:40:54 <tramp> this will actually be the first time i ran cssu
Nov 07 08:41:06 <tramp> theres nothing to backup
Nov 07 08:41:07 <Macer> it isnt much different
Nov 07 08:41:12 <Macer> oh
Nov 07 08:41:17 <Macer> well nm then lol
Nov 07 08:41:17 <tramp> oh except one thing
Nov 07 08:41:38 <Macer> i tweaked my n900 to death
Nov 07 08:41:54 <merlin1991> You still got time, test repo for stable will be avaiable later this week
Nov 07 08:42:09 <Macer> i need to do one more thing to make it just as perfect as my last one pre-usb breaking :'(
Nov 07 08:42:10 <tramp> is the backup menu very good, i was using rdiff-backup
Nov 07 08:42:33 <Macer> i only used it once.. seemed to work
Nov 07 08:42:46 <Macer> well.. more like 3 times 
Nov 07 08:43:02 <Macer> it does what it is supposed to
Nov 07 08:43:22 <tramp> is there a script for testing cssu?
Nov 07 08:43:38 <tramp> i mean a test script not a shell script
Nov 07 08:43:46 <Macer> you have to flash the n900 i suppose
Nov 07 08:44:02 <tramp> i mean a list of things to check
Nov 07 08:44:19 <Macer> have to ask merlin1991 :)
Nov 07 08:44:49 <tramp> 91, is that cat 20 yrs old?
Nov 07 08:45:13 <merlin1991> List of things to test are: does it install, do qt apps still work, do qtm apps still work
Nov 07 08:45:43 <tramp> qtm..
Nov 07 08:47:05 <tramp> is this info posted anywhere
Nov 07 08:47:09 <vdv> /opt/QtSDK/Maemo/4.6.2/sysroots/fremantle-arm-sysroot-20.2010.36-2-slim/usr/include/QtCore/qvariant.h:592: error: 'QVariant' is not a member of 'QMetaType'
Nov 07 08:47:29 <merlin1991> Not yet as the test repo is not there yet
Nov 07 08:47:48 <tramp> sounds like more missing libraries, vdv
Nov 07 08:47:57 <tramp> will it be?
Nov 07 08:48:13 <tramp> the info
Nov 07 08:48:46 <merlin1991> Yes, I'll write it up somewhere when the packages are ready
Nov 07 08:48:47 <tramp> so i can look at it more closely when im testing it
Nov 07 08:49:10 <tramp> Great, thanks
Nov 07 08:49:17 <merlin1991> Probably will add more things to test to the list
Nov 07 08:49:42 <tramp> Fantastic
Nov 07 08:50:18 <tramp> ill try not to brick my phone this week then
Nov 07 08:51:01 <merlin1991> How do you usually brick it?
Nov 07 08:51:41 <tramp> oh, well...let methink
Nov 07 08:52:29 <tramp> last week i spilt water on it, but it turned out it was just that i uninstalled every package, ...
Nov 07 08:52:48 <tramp> before that...
Nov 07 08:53:48 <merlin1991> I reflashed yesterday (enabled unstable feature in h-d -> rebootloop)
Nov 07 08:54:28 <tramp> i filled up my /tmp with dpkg-depcheck data and then rebooted bc i thought /tmp was a memory filesystem
Nov 07 08:54:51 <tramp> i thought it would clear it, but instead it wouldnt boot
Nov 07 08:55:22 <tramp> h-d?
Nov 07 08:55:41 <merlin1991> Hildon desktop
Nov 07 08:55:49 <tramp> ah
Nov 07 08:57:12 <tramp> i dont remeber the one b4 that, but the one b4 that was just a corrupt sdcard from copying files via usb with a low-batt
Nov 07 08:57:47 <tramp> fortunately i only a few files i really missed
Nov 07 08:58:09 <tramp> s/only/only lost/
Nov 07 08:58:09 <infobot> tramp meant: fortunately i only lost a few files i really missed
Nov 07 08:58:34 <tramp> infobot echo $PATH
Nov 07 08:58:35 <infobot> $PATH
Nov 07 08:58:46 <tramp> ...
Nov 07 08:59:27 <tramp> infobot find --max-depth 1
Nov 07 09:00:10 <tramp> infobot help
Nov 07 09:02:30 <Macer> ugh
Nov 07 09:02:30 <tramp> infobot cat /etc/passwd
Nov 07 09:02:34 * infobot shoves a feral cat down /etc/passwd's pants
Nov 07 09:02:49 <tramp> lol
Nov 07 09:02:49 <Macer> i have to edit the keyboard map to get my su8w working properly
Nov 07 09:03:01 <tramp> infobot cat Macer 
Nov 07 09:03:03 * infobot shoves a feral cat down Macer's pants
Nov 07 09:03:11 <Macer> sounds about right
Nov 07 09:03:14 <Macer> :)
Nov 07 09:03:21 <infobot> Debian Package/File/Desc Search of '--max-depth 1' returned no results.
Nov 07 09:03:25 <tramp> su8w?
Nov 07 09:03:28 <Macer> but that is the last thing i need
Nov 07 09:03:31 <psycho_oreos> infobot, lart Macer 
Nov 07 09:03:32 * infobot squeezes Macer till Macer turns blue like papa smurf
Nov 07 09:03:46 <Macer> nokia bt keyboard
Nov 07 09:03:54 <tramp> like papa smurf lol
Nov 07 09:03:59 <Macer> got it years ago with my n95
Nov 07 09:04:18 <tramp> no Macer, just install extkbd
Nov 07 09:04:23 <Macer> worked great on my n900... edited the keymap
Nov 07 09:04:30 <jaska> infobot, lart infobot
Nov 07 09:04:30 * infobot turns jaska into a lifesized tux doll
Nov 07 09:04:30 <Macer> i still have to edit the keymap
Nov 07 09:04:36 <jaska> :D
Nov 07 09:04:44 <Macer> so enter works when it is closed
Nov 07 09:05:01 <tramp> heh
Nov 07 09:05:18 <psycho_oreos> infobot, lart itself
Nov 07 09:05:21 * infobot burns psycho_oreos to a crisp with a laser
Nov 07 09:05:37 <Macer> will do it tomorrow... sleepy now
Nov 07 09:05:44 <Macer> gn
Nov 07 09:06:38 <tramp> extkbd fixes the mapping
Nov 07 09:06:59 <tramp> ...automatically when you plug in a kbd
Nov 07 09:08:06 <tramp> it also overwrites your current kbd mapping, so back it up, and you might have to modify it to work with extkbd
Nov 07 09:08:44 <tramp> infobot lart himslef
Nov 07 09:08:44 * infobot installs a bad bootloader on himslef and turns himslef into a brick
Nov 07 09:09:25 <tramp> lol i did it
Nov 07 09:09:55 <tramp> infobot rm *
Nov 07 09:09:56 <infobot> * is an unperson
Nov 07 09:10:11 <psycho_oreos> infobot, lart ｉｔｓｅｌｆ
Nov 07 09:10:12 * infobot eats ｉｔｓｅｌｆ and falls over dead
Nov 07 09:10:20 <tramp> wow
Nov 07 09:11:07 <tramp> infobot ls
Nov 07 09:11:07 <infobot> bash: ls: permission denied
Nov 07 09:11:08 <merlin1991> infobot is a genious :D
Nov 07 09:11:21 <merlin1991> infobot ls /
Nov 07 09:11:34 <tramp> infobot pwd
Nov 07 09:11:35 <infobot> i guess pwd is $pwd
Nov 07 09:11:37 <hiemanshu> infobot: die
Nov 07 09:11:38 * infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless.
Nov 07 09:11:45 <kerio> D:
Nov 07 09:11:52 <kerio> hiemanshu: how could you
Nov 07 09:11:53 <merlin1991> this is getting kinda odd :P
Nov 07 09:11:58 <kerio> infobot: nuke hiemanshu 
Nov 07 09:11:59 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at hiemanshu ... B☢☢M!
Nov 07 09:12:23 <merlin1991> hm, some of those chars of boom didn't arrive here correctly
Nov 07 09:12:30 <psycho_oreos> infobot, lart kerio 
Nov 07 09:12:30 * infobot beats kerio into protomatter with the andromeda galaxy
Nov 07 09:12:33 <tramp> infobot sudo ls
Nov 07 09:12:46 <merlin1991> lovely rectangles
Nov 07 09:13:05 <psycho_oreos> merlin1991, indeed, using xchat?
Nov 07 09:13:14 <merlin1991> nope quassel
Nov 07 09:13:31 <tramp> I SAID SUDO!
Nov 07 09:13:48 <psycho_oreos> ahh bugger
Nov 07 09:13:53 <jonwil> bah, I give up on trying to figure out the virtual keyboard
Nov 07 09:14:04 <tramp> what?
Nov 07 09:14:31 <tramp> oh you mean the symbols popup window?
Nov 07 09:15:19 <jonwil> well there is that and there is also a proper virtual keyboard
Nov 07 09:15:22 <jonwil> how you activate that one I dont know
Nov 07 09:15:24 <jonwil> but its there
Nov 07 09:15:51 <tramp> ive seen the setting for it, but i dont know what it is
Nov 07 09:16:01 <merlin1991> settings -> text-input -> use virtual keyboard
Nov 07 09:16:09 <tramp> i have every key i need with my modified rx-51 file
Nov 07 09:16:57 <tramp> braces, brackets, pipes, ...
Nov 07 09:16:59 <merlin1991> but why would one want to use the vkbd on the n900?
Nov 07 09:17:14 <tramp> except i havent copied it over this flash yet
Nov 07 09:17:34 <tramp> i dont know what the vkbd even is!!
Nov 07 09:17:40 <hiemanshu> merlin1991: one handed usage?
Nov 07 09:18:06 <merlin1991> tramp vkbd is virtual keyboard
Nov 07 09:18:14 <tramp> "how can i type even slower?"
Nov 07 09:18:16 <merlin1991> and hiemanshu it's landscape only one handed is portait for me
Nov 07 09:18:36 <tramp> i know its a vkbd, but is a vkbd!?
Nov 07 09:18:40 <hiemanshu> merlin1991: one handed usage for people with big hands? :P
Nov 07 09:18:46 <hiemanshu> tramp: virtual keyboard :P
Nov 07 09:19:10 <tramp> u.u
Nov 07 09:19:12 <Macer> the vkb in maemo is horrible
Nov 07 09:19:37 <Macer> i am not a big vkb fan to begin with but the one in maemo is especially horrible
Nov 07 09:19:39 <merlin1991> hiemanshu: my thumb only reaches about 60% of the n900 screen when holding it in landscape one handed, so defenitely not for me :P
Nov 07 09:20:07 <tramp> i know vkb stands for virtual kbd, what is a virtual keyboard
Nov 07 09:20:19 <Macer> hm. i need to see if any of these stock widgets are worthwhile
Nov 07 09:20:35 <merlin1991> tramp: I'll do you an awesome screenshot of the maemo5 vkbd awesomenes
Nov 07 09:20:47 <Macer> i am sure they aren't.. i'd love to be able to have them refresh every 1s :)
Nov 07 09:21:07 <Macer> merlin1991: can i see it?
Nov 07 09:21:14 <Macer> is it some non-stock customized one?
Nov 07 09:21:17 <tramp> you dont mean the symbols popup menu do you?
Nov 07 09:21:26 <merlin1991> tramp nope I don't mean that
Nov 07 09:21:34 <tramp> hmm
Nov 07 09:21:41 <merlin1991> hm how does one take a screenshot from ssh?
Nov 07 09:21:53 <merlin1991> can't use ctrl+shift+p since that closes the vkbd :D
Nov 07 09:22:03 <tramp> does ctrl-p not work?
Nov 07 09:22:06 <Macer> lol!
Nov 07 09:22:12 <tramp> w/e
Nov 07 09:22:20 <Macer> wtf.. is it an ncurses kb?
Nov 07 09:22:21 <Macer> :)
Nov 07 09:22:25 <tramp> lol
Nov 07 09:22:28 <Macer> with mouse support
Nov 07 09:22:42 <psycho_oreos> merlin1991, there's a screenshot tool which I think is part of cpu/mem applet
Nov 07 09:22:53 <tramp> there should be a script for ss'ing
Nov 07 09:23:14 <Macer> to get a bt keyboard workign properly you have to edit the keymap then disable the vkb
Nov 07 09:23:16 <psycho_oreos> well screenshot/screen recorder tool really
Nov 07 09:23:38 <Macer> i had it working so nicely... autoconnected the bt and disconnected and it all worked... that is why a piece of me died inside when my last n900 broke
Nov 07 09:23:47 <villager> merlin1991: plenty of those screenshots on google image search... 
Nov 07 09:23:57 <merlin1991> villager: too easy!
Nov 07 09:24:58 <Macer> i wish the n900 had full device encryption
Nov 07 09:25:00 <Macer> that would be great
Nov 07 09:25:24 <Macer> i was surprised the asus transformer had it
Nov 07 09:26:04 <tramp> it can run dm-crypt with kp
Nov 07 09:27:45 <Macer> amazon sells a synology ds411j diskless for $359 and with 4x1TB for $760
Nov 07 09:28:11 <Macer> $400 seems a little steep for 4x1TB
Nov 07 09:28:33 <tramp> Macer: why dont you just install extkbd from appman to auo-set your kbd mapping?
Nov 07 09:28:53 <jrayhawk> Yeah, the n900 uses an initfs, so dm-crypting root is not particularly hard.
Nov 07 09:29:09 <Macer> for ~$500 you can get 4x3TB
Nov 07 09:29:17 * jonwil adds hildon input method libs to the list of libraries he could reverse engineer if he only had header files for them
Nov 07 09:29:27 <tramp> im not sure if you can encrypt the rootfs tho
Nov 07 09:29:37 <Macer> tramp: because you still have to map the enter key to work propery when the phone is closed
Nov 07 09:29:41 <Macer> i ran into this problem before
Nov 07 09:30:03 <Macer> if you disable the vkb then pressint enter will act somewhat similar as a "mouse click"
Nov 07 09:30:11 <Macer> which normally would bring up the vkb
Nov 07 09:30:29 <tramp> jonwil: you can RE, but you cant derive header files?
Nov 07 09:30:33 <Macer> if you edit the map for the US 104 keyboard and remap it a bit it works perfectly.. extkbd does not do this correctly
Nov 07 09:30:54 <jonwil> Not when there are funky undocumented structures involved
Nov 07 09:31:02 <jonwil> when you have a function that returns an unknown structur
Nov 07 09:31:05 <Macer> unless it has been updated and i don't know about it :) i will try it out later today and let you know
Nov 07 09:31:06 <jonwil> or takes one as a paremter
Nov 07 09:31:08 <jonwil> its hard
Nov 07 09:32:15 <tramp> ok, i guess they arent OS either
Nov 07 09:32:21 <jonwil> nope they arent
Nov 07 09:32:35 <tramp> Macer: have you reported the bug?
Nov 07 09:32:38 <jonwil> Thats where the problem comes from with most of these libs I want to reverse engineer
Nov 07 09:32:45 <Macer> tramp: there is still maemo bug reporting?
Nov 07 09:32:51 <merlin1991> WTF? my n900 decided to stop accepting my ssh key
Nov 07 09:32:55 <tramp> I think I remember experiencing that myself
Nov 07 09:33:03 <Macer> last time i tried that it was "WONTFIX.. WONTFIX... WONTFIX... WONTFIX"
Nov 07 09:33:34 <Macer> i thought the greatest one was when i said "Maemo 4 had su8w support which worked flawlessly yet this ability was removed in Maemo 5 (along with the direct configuration of other Bluetooth keyboards)
Nov 07 09:33:38 <Macer> "
Nov 07 09:33:39 <Macer> WONTFIX
Nov 07 09:34:13 <Macer> and that was when Nokia was running the show.. damn snobs.. i hope they got fired when they went to Winmob
Nov 07 09:34:25 <Macer> the whole lot of them
Nov 07 09:34:30 <jonwil> The lack of headers for libconnui and libconnui_cell is the biggest reason my work with the connectivity UI is going nowhere
Nov 07 09:34:41 <tramp> Macer: youre saying there is no bug reporting bc maintainers wont fix, right?
Nov 07 09:35:31 <merlin1991> what can possibly invalidate my ssh key for the n900 ssh server?
Nov 07 09:35:53 <jrayhawk> merlin1991 Are you sshing with -u user?
Nov 07 09:36:10 <tramp> jonwil: i thought n900 packages had to be OS
Nov 07 09:36:14 <jrayhawk> err, user@
Nov 07 09:36:16 <jonwil> nope
Nov 07 09:36:18 <jonwil> they dont
Nov 07 09:36:25 <merlin1991> jrayhawk: no, but you just explained me what I did wrong
Nov 07 09:36:27 <jonwil> plenty of the N900 is closed source
Nov 07 09:36:29 <Macer> tramp: i would say there is no bug reporting being done because most of the projects are abandoned :)
Nov 07 09:36:29 <merlin1991> forgot the root@ 
Nov 07 09:36:41 <jonwil> including most of the nice bits
Nov 07 09:36:59 <jrayhawk> ewww, direct root logins
Nov 07 09:37:02 <Macer> and maemo itself is working off a dedicated skeleton crew of people here making it better with what little resources they have
Nov 07 09:37:08 <merlin1991> jrayhawk: why not? 
Nov 07 09:37:12 <tramp> jonwil: oh those libs were made by nokia
Nov 07 09:37:19 <jonwil> yeah
Nov 07 09:37:22 <jonwil> Nokia made them
Nov 07 09:37:22 <tramp> sorry following 3 convos
Nov 07 09:37:27 <jonwil> so has no obligation to release them
Nov 07 09:37:35 <tramp> :/
Nov 07 09:37:39 <Macer> just curious.. who is running maemo.org nowadays?
Nov 07 09:38:05 <tramp> jonwil: thats why i left droid
Nov 07 09:39:09 <jonwil> N900 is more open than most Android handsets
Nov 07 09:39:11 <jrayhawk> single-factor security for root is uncomfortably risky in my book, but to each their own.
Nov 07 09:39:35 <Macer> jonwil: i think they are equally closed ;)
Nov 07 09:39:53 <tramp> Macer: instead of hacking a solution to the kbd problem, fix the broken package and reupload it
Nov 07 09:40:20 <Macer> are the keymaps part of extkbd?
Nov 07 09:40:26 <jrayhawk> I run pretty much everything with PermitRootLogin no, PasswordAuthentication no, and require all elevation to go through sudo.
Nov 07 09:40:26 <Macer> it's like.. 2 lines in the keymap
Nov 07 09:40:40 <Macer> but you can't use the vkb after that
Nov 07 09:40:54 <Macer> unless someone finds a cleaner way to do it
Nov 07 09:41:35 <Macer> tramp: this problem is in tmo from the before time... :) i remember trying to get this going when i first got my first n900 when it first came out
Nov 07 09:41:37 <tramp> i know extkbd overwrites rx-51
Nov 07 09:41:45 <Macer> extkbd wasn't there yet
Nov 07 09:42:01 <Macer> extkbd also uses other mapping files for the types of keyboards
Nov 07 09:42:13 <Macer> but then again.. it may work now... i will try it later .. right now i'm going to bed.. it is 3am here
Nov 07 09:42:26 <tramp> hmm
Nov 07 09:42:28 <tramp> ok
Nov 07 09:42:55 <Macer> for myself i believe it was the type of keyboard 
Nov 07 09:42:59 <Macer> i had to edit the US file
Nov 07 09:43:14 <Macer> or the US 104... i forget.. it has been a while.. i will blog about it later :-P
Nov 07 09:43:31 * jonwil wishes -dev packages for more of these libraries were available
Nov 07 09:43:35 <Macer> lol
Nov 07 09:43:44 <merlin1991> tramp: http://87.106.163.159/~christian/vkbd.png
Nov 07 09:43:49 <jonwil> Would be so useful for work I am doing
Nov 07 09:43:56 <tramp> jonwil: yes
Nov 07 09:43:58 <Macer> i haven't really done much to http://tech.rancorous.net
Nov 07 09:44:02 <merlin1991> for the record `gst-launch-0.10 ximagesrc num-buffers=1 ! ffmpegcolorspace ! pngenc ! filesink location=screenshot.png` to take a screenshot from ssh
Nov 07 09:44:03 <Macer> i don't even know if it is still running
Nov 07 09:44:07 <Macer> :) it has been a while
Nov 07 09:44:09 <Macer> been busy
Nov 07 09:45:37 * jonwil wishes people like qwerty12 were still around
Nov 07 09:45:40 <tramp> lol such an intuitive cmd for ss
Nov 07 09:46:17 <tramp> jonwil: to help you RE the libs
Nov 07 09:46:21 <tramp> ?
Nov 07 09:46:31 <jonwil> yeah, that guy was good at that sort of thing
Nov 07 09:46:36 <jonwil> as far as I know
Nov 07 09:46:50 <Macer> jonwil: i miss qwerty12 too :'( and lcuk
Nov 07 09:46:57 <Macer> what happened to qwerty?
Nov 07 09:47:05 <jonwil> I dont know
Nov 07 09:47:09 <Macer> qole too
Nov 07 09:47:11 <Macer> penguinbait
Nov 07 09:47:14 <Macer> sigh
Nov 07 09:47:20 <tramp> well, depending on how much you need RE'd you can get some info abount the strucs
Nov 07 09:47:59 <jonwil> how?
Nov 07 09:48:10 * merlin1991 needs to compile another version of mad-developer
Nov 07 09:48:29 <tramp> *thinking*
Nov 07 09:48:43 <merlin1991> I'm getting tired of SECURITY BREACH ssh  warnings because n9 and n900 use same ip on usb-networking
Nov 07 09:48:49 <psycho_oreos> qwerty12 rage quitted, lcuk passed away, qole now mainly focuses on harmattan and penguinbait left
Nov 07 09:48:59 <tramp> too many questions!
Nov 07 09:49:02 <jrayhawk> yeah, it sure would be sweet if ssh keys were indexed by, you know, key
Nov 07 09:49:20 <tramp> ok, can you load the libs in a debugger?
Nov 07 09:49:23 <psycho_oreos> merlin1991, you can set N9 with different IP/subnet/gateway you know?
Nov 07 09:50:24 <tramp> jonwil: can you load the libs in a debugger?
Nov 07 09:50:24 <jrayhawk> merlin1991You can selectively disable checks for 
Nov 07 09:50:30 <jrayhawk> certain hosts
Nov 07 09:50:33 <jonwil> if using the debugger would help, I would have done so
Nov 07 09:50:43 <jonwil> I can already get things in GDB but that doesnt help
Nov 07 09:51:16 <jacekowski> jonwil: what do you need?
Nov 07 09:51:44 <psycho_oreos> packages/stuff behind vkbd
Nov 07 09:51:54 <jonwil> yes I am trying to reverse engineer the vkb stuff
Nov 07 09:52:02 <jonwil> but for that I have x86 packages
Nov 07 09:52:08 <merlin1991> thanks psycho_oreos, knowing how the n900 behaved I didn't think the n9 would remember those settings
Nov 07 09:52:22 <jonwil> so x86 hex-rays is the best option to reverse engineer those
Nov 07 09:52:53 <jonwil> The libs I am really stuck on due to no x86 packages are libsrv_um, libpvr2d, libconnui and libconnui_cell
Nov 07 09:52:58 <psycho_oreos> merlin1991, N9 doesn't save those settings? wow that's really useful hey? I guess you'll just have to place N900 in different setup then
Nov 07 09:53:13 <merlin1991> psycho_oreos: it does
Nov 07 09:53:17 <tramp> jonwil: then it's down to RE'ing the strucs in asm...
Nov 07 09:53:18 <merlin1991> but I thought it doesn't
Nov 07 09:53:25 <jonwil> yeah :(
Nov 07 09:53:29 <merlin1991> because the n900 doesn't :D
Nov 07 09:53:42 <psycho_oreos> merlin1991, actually N900 does
Nov 07 09:53:47 <merlin1991> mine doesn't :D
Nov 07 09:54:10 <psycho_oreos> I have two N900 with completely different IP/subnet/gateway setup. I have had them on USB networking before
Nov 07 09:54:15 <merlin1991> restarted mad-developer and settings were back to old system
Nov 07 09:54:26 <psycho_oreos> I never used mad-developer
Nov 07 09:54:45 <merlin1991> it's a convenient ui except for that little flaw
Nov 07 09:55:16 <tramp> if it was written in C, it wont be that hard, it should be accessed in a straightforward way
Nov 07 09:55:30 <jonwil> yeah those libs are still hard though
Nov 07 09:55:44 <jonwil> callback functions are one of the most annoying things
Nov 07 09:56:00 <tramp> well it depends how much you need RE'd
Nov 07 09:56:16 <tramp> i wouldnt want to break down 15 strucs
Nov 07 09:56:25 <jacekowski> n900 is dead
Nov 07 09:56:37 <psycho_oreos> useful comment...
Nov 07 09:56:39 <tramp> and then what do you need out of them?
Nov 07 09:56:59 <jaska> sure, but, n9 is keyboardless and contains hitlerware (drm), thus it does not exist to me
Nov 07 09:57:53 <Shadikka> Hitlerware... that's a good term, now.
Nov 07 09:58:47 <tramp> the n900 is still the most powerful phone. It cant die until its surp+sed
Nov 07 09:59:11 * psycho_oreos rolls eyes
Nov 07 09:59:18 <jonwil> I think the #1 wish I have right now is for help to figure out the prototype of the functions in libimlayouts.so.0 labeled imlayout_vkb_xxx
Nov 07 10:00:12 <tramp> things dont die when theyre a few years old, they die when theyve been replaced by something better
Nov 07 10:00:52 <tramp> did you figure out the calling convention yet?
Nov 07 10:01:24 <jonwil> well they should be standard C calling convention
Nov 07 10:01:34 <jonwil> but I cant figure out the parameters or return types or any structures involved therein
Nov 07 10:02:25 <Shadikka> I'd love to help, but I'm pretty sure I'm more eager than I would be of actual help.
Nov 07 10:02:35 <tramp> can you load it in IDA?
Nov 07 10:02:46 <jonwil> I can but that doesn'
Nov 07 10:02:53 <jonwil> doesn't get me anywhere
Nov 07 10:03:25 <tramp> you can find the sizes of the strucs by their size on the stack, trace their access...
Nov 07 10:03:40 <psycho_oreos> tramp, I think you're mistaking the fact that jonwil doesn't need you to tell him what to do but to rather actually give him a hand in reverse engineering
Nov 07 10:04:11 <tramp> and for paramters you have to trace the data back through the caller..hm
Nov 07 10:04:37 <tramp> psycho_oreos: unfortunately, all i have is my phone
Nov 07 10:05:13 <tramp> but im typing as fast as i can!
Nov 07 10:07:44 <tramp> i used to have a computer, but it was stolen
Nov 07 10:08:55 <merlin1991> tramp: how did you flash then? oO
Nov 07 10:09:48 <tramp> oh yes, i sent it back to nokia and they flashed it for me
Nov 07 10:09:58 <tramp> ^^
Nov 07 10:10:10 <tramp> wonderful chaps
Nov 07 10:10:52 <tramp> after i sat my broken phone for a week
Nov 07 10:11:12 <tramp> that was when i uninstalled all packages
Nov 07 10:12:04 <tramp> usually i just use someone elses computer. i put the flasher on my flashdrive
Nov 07 10:12:46 <tramp> in my defense, i thought the water killed it and thats why i sent it in
Nov 07 10:13:16 <merlin1991> I'll make sure to test cssu doesn't brick the phone before I let you test then :D
Nov 07 10:14:14 <tramp> haha ok thx
Nov 07 10:21:36 <tramp> gl jon, you can do it
Nov 07 10:22:39 <tramp> see you tomorrow
Nov 07 10:24:26 <jonwil> ok, time to figure up my Linux box and grab the x86 file for hildon-western-fkb :)
Nov 07 10:32:45 <jonwil> ooh good, hildon_im_widget_load is open source
Nov 07 10:48:20 <Macer> lol.. so if i put the N900 down now... and leave it alone.. it will stay alive for 182 hours? :)
Nov 07 10:48:31 <Macer> be for serious.. this thing is not being realistic lmao
Nov 07 10:48:53 <brik> you should try
Nov 07 10:49:37 <Macer> brik: it is impossible
Nov 07 10:49:41 <Macer> can't help but tinker with it
Nov 07 10:49:56 <Macer> right now i'm trying to figure out what damn stock ticker symbols this app is using
Nov 07 10:50:14 <Macer> i ca't seem to get the averages to add to the widget :(
Nov 07 10:50:31 <Macer> the typical ones don't work. like DJIA ... or .DJI
Nov 07 10:51:33 <jonwil> I think I am getting closer to figuring out this SOB :P
Nov 07 10:58:41 <Macer> hm
Nov 07 10:58:47 <Macer> it looks like it may use NYSE tickers
Nov 07 10:59:05 <Macer> argh.. i wish there was a stock widget for maemo that just looked it up by typing it into a search :)
Nov 07 11:00:39 <Macer> ugh
Nov 07 11:00:42 <Macer> it sure does.... finally
Nov 07 11:00:47 <Macer> that makes life a lot eaier
Nov 07 11:05:39 <Macer> OMG no it doesn't
Nov 07 11:05:40 <Macer> wth
Nov 07 11:05:48 <Macer> i need to figure out what tickers markets today uses
Nov 07 11:05:51 <Macer> it's driving me nuts
Nov 07 11:11:20 <merlin1991> Yay tracker went berserk
Nov 07 11:12:23 <merlin1991> And lost the db
Nov 07 11:19:10 <Macer> ok this is just weird
Nov 07 11:19:22 <Macer> i can add the everything but ^DJI
Nov 07 11:19:26 <Macer> it's driving me crazy
Nov 07 11:21:25 <Macer> the russel.. nasdaq and S&P 500 add fine
Nov 07 11:46:34 <Macer> oh
Nov 07 11:46:39 <Macer> yahoo is broken
Nov 07 11:46:46 <Macer> /MyDocs/Downloads/quote-0.05 $ perl quote ^DJI
Nov 07 11:46:46 <Macer> Use of uninitialized value in substitution (s///) at quote line 87.
Nov 07 11:47:12 <Macer> their dji quote is broken lol
Nov 07 11:50:06 <Macer> /MyDocs/Downloads/quote-0.05 $ perl quote ^IXIC
Nov 07 11:50:06 <Macer> ^IXIC: 2686.15 +0.00 (+0.00%) @4:30pm
Nov 07 11:50:31 <Macer> nasdaq works. this is why people should just use google... their stuff works
Nov 07 12:04:33 <DocScrutinizer> (<merlin1991> I'm getting tired of SECURITY BREACH ssh  warnings) ssh -o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null -l root IroN900
Nov 07 12:06:49 <DocScrutinizer> merlin1991: quite convenient to have an alias, a function, or a shellscript for that
Nov 07 12:10:02 <DocScrutinizer> merlin1991: you *might* also be interested in http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/unsorted/neo-sftp and http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/unsorted/neo-ssh
Nov 07 12:41:37 <achipa> X-Fade: ping - autobuilder bork
Nov 07 12:42:30 <Macer> ok.. this may seem a little silly but.. how do i keep the screen unlocked for apps but keep the desktop locked?
Nov 07 12:42:50 <Macer> turning the auto orientation on makes the desktop rotate and it is stupid because that obviously doesn't work correctly
Nov 07 12:42:58 <MohammadAG> screen locked?
Nov 07 12:43:04 <Macer> but if i force landscape the apps won't rotate
Nov 07 12:43:12 <MohammadAG> orientation?
Nov 07 12:43:15 <Macer> yes
Nov 07 12:43:35 <Macer> when i disable the landscape from the applet... the desktop rotates
Nov 07 12:43:49 <Macer> if i force it into landscape no apps will do it even if they have an option to do so
Nov 07 12:43:52 <X-Fade> achipa: What's up?
Nov 07 12:43:58 <Macer> i want to lock the desktop but allow the apps to rotate
Nov 07 12:44:34 <achipa> X-Fade: autobuilder stuck since yesterday evening
Nov 07 12:45:16 <X-Fade> achipa: Hmm no builds going on.
Nov 07 12:45:43 <achipa> exactly, and since I'm trying to fix QtMobility it's a bit of a pain :)
Nov 07 12:46:53 <X-Fade> achipa: Ehm, there are just no files in incoming-builder?
Nov 07 12:47:33 <achipa> X-Fade: unpossible ? I uploaded libqtm-12 noon-ish today, but nothing happened
Nov 07 12:47:36 <Macer> ok seriously
Nov 07 12:47:46 <Macer> there is no way to keep the desktop from rotating but allowing the apps to do so?
Nov 07 12:47:48 <achipa> X-Fade: (noon EST)
Nov 07 12:47:51 <X-Fade> achipa: ah, rejected.
Nov 07 12:48:07 <achipa> okay... but got no mail about the rejection :S
Nov 07 12:48:40 <achipa> and even failed builds are supposed to show up on the latest builds, right ?
Nov 07 12:48:41 <X-Fade> achipa: Oh, no. that was an older build.
Nov 07 12:48:49 <X-Fade> achipa: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2011-November/date.html#end
Nov 07 12:50:19 <achipa> X-Fade: note that the message ends with "building...", never gets to OK or publishing it
Nov 07 12:50:32 <X-Fade> achipa: Yeah, the last one is curious.
Nov 07 12:50:42 <X-Fade> achipa: But that one is not old.
Nov 07 12:51:07 <achipa> well, like 3 hours
Nov 07 12:51:12 <X-Fade> achipa: Can you upload again, so I can watch what is going on?
Nov 07 12:51:16 <achipa> sure
Nov 07 12:51:26 <achipa> X-Fade: should I bump versions ?
Nov 07 12:51:43 <X-Fade> achipa: I don't think so.
Nov 07 12:52:22 <Macer> wow
Nov 07 12:52:34 <Macer> silly shit like this makes me want to flash PR1.3 onto it again
Nov 07 12:52:57 <achipa> X-Fade: upped
Nov 07 12:53:16 <X-Fade> achipa: Ok, building.
Nov 07 12:56:37 <Macer> omg this doesn't make sense
Nov 07 12:56:49 <Macer> is there some type of orientation setting i am missing somewhere?
Nov 07 13:06:25 <achipa> X-Fade: got the same (half)mail
Nov 07 13:07:21 <X-Fade> achipa: I see an input/output error.
Nov 07 13:09:18 <X-Fade> achipa: Crap, some issues with NAS.
Nov 07 13:10:08 <DocScrutinizer> Macer: there's some blacklist
Nov 07 13:10:43 <DocScrutinizer> Macer: don't ask me where and how it works, it's all *very* bleeding edge all this rotation stuff and I *hate* it
Nov 07 13:11:21 <DocScrutinizer> Macer: bash MohammadAG 
Nov 07 13:11:26 <Macer> DocScrutinizer: i don't understand. there is no way to prevent the desktop from rotating yet allow apps to rotate??
Nov 07 13:11:32 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: also /join #maemo-ssu
Nov 07 13:11:36 <X-Fade> achipa: rebuilding again.
Nov 07 13:11:52 <Macer> if you use the applet then the rotation is global
Nov 07 13:12:00 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, I'm there?
Nov 07 13:12:02 <Macer> it either all rotates or none of it
Nov 07 13:12:08 <MohammadAG> Macer, what do you want exactly?
Nov 07 13:12:19 <Macer> i want apps to rotate.. like the phone app
Nov 07 13:12:22 <Macer> but not the desktop
Nov 07 13:12:31 <Macer> i want it to work like it used to work :)
Nov 07 13:12:32 <MohammadAG> desktop as in home?
Nov 07 13:12:38 <Macer> yes
Nov 07 13:12:47 <Macer> the way it works now... everything rotates or nothing rotates
Nov 07 13:12:58 <DocScrutinizer> Macer: I made exactly that (dialer rotates, nothing else though), check:
Nov 07 13:13:00 <Macer> the phone will not rotate if "force landscape" is set in the applet
Nov 07 13:13:02 <DocScrutinizer> ~jr-tools
Nov 07 13:13:07 <DocScrutinizer> ~jrtools
Nov 07 13:13:08 <infobot> i guess jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
Nov 07 13:13:13 <MohammadAG> gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/desktop_orientation_lock -t bool true
Nov 07 13:13:20 <DocScrutinizer> or that :-D
Nov 07 13:13:31 <Macer> i have to do that every time the phone boots?
Nov 07 13:13:35 <Macer> :)
Nov 07 13:13:36 <MohammadAG> no?
Nov 07 13:13:43 <Macer> hm
Nov 07 13:13:50 <x29a> or rc.local can do it for you =)
Nov 07 13:13:54 <x29a> yay linux
Nov 07 13:14:10 <Macer> x29a: so... i have to do that every time the phone boots :-P
Nov 07 13:14:11 <DocScrutinizer> x29a: BS
Nov 07 13:14:19 <DocScrutinizer> gconf keys are persistent
Nov 07 13:14:23 <MohammadAG> I thought the point of such configurations was that it was PERSISTENT
Nov 07 13:14:23 <Macer> heh
Nov 07 13:14:30 <MohammadAG> otherwise we could use dbus
Nov 07 13:16:00 <Macer> uhm
Nov 07 13:16:04 <Macer> is there a apps?
Nov 07 13:16:09 <Macer> /apps/osso...
Nov 07 13:16:30 <x29a> docscrutinizer: chill, pun intended. but even if it wasnt persistent, there is no such thing as _i_ have to do things at every boot
Nov 07 13:16:31 <DocScrutinizer> To get rid of the ubiquitous autorotating while still allowing dialer to switch to portrait mode (doesn't lock microB, for now I will live with it): 
Nov 07 13:16:32 <DocScrutinizer> gconftool-2 --set /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/ui_can_rotate -t bool false
Nov 07 13:16:34 <DocScrutinizer> reboot
Nov 07 13:17:01 <Macer> ok
Nov 07 13:17:23 <DocScrutinizer> ~jrtools
Nov 07 13:17:23 <infobot> hmm... jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
Nov 07 13:19:15 <Macer> alrighty. lets see if that works :)
Nov 07 13:19:29 <DocScrutinizer> merlin1991: ^^^ relevant for S
Nov 07 13:19:29 <MohammadAG> you can lock microb
Nov 07 13:19:44 <Macer> the auto rotate would be fine.... if the desktop would reorganize everything
Nov 07 13:19:54 <MohammadAG> organize it yourself
Nov 07 13:19:55 <Macer> or if there were "2" desktops .. one for landscape and one for portrait
Nov 07 13:19:58 <DocScrutinizer> Macer: yes, we know
Nov 07 13:20:04 <MohammadAG> Macer, it's that way now
Nov 07 13:20:09 <Macer> is it??
Nov 07 13:20:12 <MohammadAG> duh
Nov 07 13:20:18 <Macer> the landscape and portrait aren't the same?
Nov 07 13:20:22 <MohammadAG> again, duh
Nov 07 13:20:32 <Macer> :-P well my icons and stuff got moved from teh landscape mode
Nov 07 13:20:33 <Macer> wtf
Nov 07 13:20:38 <Macer> ok.. well... my bad then
Nov 07 13:20:43 <MohammadAG> reorganize them, they'll be stored
Nov 07 13:20:50 <MohammadAG> there's no algorithm to autosort them
Nov 07 13:20:54 <Macer> ok... did't know that
Nov 07 13:20:55 <MohammadAG> well, initially
Nov 07 13:21:14 <Macer> my bad
Nov 07 13:21:21 <DocScrutinizer> /join #maemo-ssu !
Nov 07 13:21:54 <Macer> well.. geez.. now that i know that i want it active
Nov 07 13:21:55 <Macer> lol
Nov 07 13:22:13 <MohammadAG> true -> false
Nov 07 13:22:16 <DocScrutinizer> Macer: please, it's kinda OT here
Nov 07 13:22:30 <Macer> really?
Nov 07 13:22:40 <DocScrutinizer> not really, just kinda
Nov 07 13:22:46 <Macer> heh.. yeah.. i'm turning it back on
Nov 07 13:28:10 <X-Fade> achipa: It worked now.
Nov 07 15:21:40 <jargon-> i can't seem to get bash history to work in bash3. everytime i tap PgUp i just get the tilde sign
Nov 07 15:28:57 <_berto_> http://www.neowin.net/news/nokia-n9-outsells-all-other-phones-in-finland-during-october
Nov 07 15:29:09 <SpeedEvil> W T F
Nov 07 15:29:54 <E0x_> hello
Nov 07 15:30:15 <DocScrutinizer> jargon-: same here, probably related to keymappings
Nov 07 15:30:33 <DocScrutinizer> s/mappings/bindings/
Nov 07 15:31:15 <jargon-> DocScrutinizer: hmmm
Nov 07 15:39:37 <DocScrutinizer> jargon-: man bash|less +"/Readline Key Bindings"
Nov 07 15:44:36 <arnet> Anybody knows, does maemo have a caching name server?
Nov 07 15:45:00 <merlin1991> arnet: yes
Nov 07 15:45:09 <merlin1991> it has dnsmasq running
Nov 07 15:45:49 <arnet> ammm... so I guess I need to restart dnsmasq
Nov 07 15:46:06 <arnet> because I need to add some ip's in /etc/hosts and
Nov 07 15:46:20 <arnet> when I change them back
Nov 07 15:46:45 <arnet> it still resolves the old ones
Nov 07 15:46:54 <arnet> Thanks!
Nov 07 15:50:35 <DocScrutinizer> sighup may do
Nov 07 15:53:41 <DocScrutinizer> jargon-: compare #> less /etc/inputrc ~/.inputrc*; #on your desktop and on N900
Nov 07 16:00:49 <DocScrutinizer> arnet: man dnsmasq: >>When  it  receives  a  SIGHUP,  dnsmasq clears its cache and then re-loads /etc/hosts and...
Nov 07 16:03:00 <DocScrutinizer> nice: >> When it receives a SIGUSR1, dnsmasq writes statistics to the system log. It writes the cache size, the  number  of       names  which  have  had  to removed from the cache before they expired in order to make room for new names and the       total number of names that have been inserted into the cache. For each upstream server  it  gives  the  number  of       queries sent, and the number which resulted in an error.
Nov 07 16:07:11 <DocScrutinizer> arnet: man dnsmasq|less +'/Addresses  in  /etc/hosts  will  "shadow" '
Nov 07 16:32:41 <arnet> DocScrutinizer: thanks
Nov 07 16:33:37 <DocScrutinizer> yw
Nov 07 16:34:27 <DocScrutinizer> \o/
Nov 07 16:34:49 <infobot> DocScrutinizer: infobot joined!
Nov 07 17:16:17 <jargon-> DocScrutinizer: thanks, that solved it. :-)
Nov 07 18:44:02 <jargon-> how to i import flogs calendar into n900?
Nov 07 18:52:35 <Choom> greetings
Nov 07 18:53:00 <Choom> has anybody here bought the N9 yet?
Nov 07 18:54:58 <Choom> I'm interested in hearing what people think about harmattan, because as far as the hardware is concerned, the phone seems quite overpriced compared to the iPhone 4S
Nov 07 18:56:28 <Choom> I would like to have an N9 for the nerd stuff (my main phone is the 4S), but am still trying to convince myself into buying it
Nov 07 18:59:38 <merlin1991> Choom: get an n900 instead
Nov 07 18:59:59 <merlin1991> cheaper AND you can do the actual nerd stuff without getting buttfucked by aegis
Nov 07 19:00:16 <Choom> I've had an n900 for years
Nov 07 19:00:28 <Choom> the n9 would be an upgrade to that
Nov 07 19:00:49 <Choom> at least that's the theory
Nov 07 19:00:55 <NIN101> ~aegis
Nov 07 19:00:55 <infobot> http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or  http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif
Nov 07 19:01:35 <Choom> isn't that optional?
Nov 07 19:01:40 <merlin1991> nope that is inbuilt
Nov 07 19:01:53 <Choom> i.e.: can't you just run unsigned code by telling the phone that you don't care?
Nov 07 19:01:56 <NIN101> and because of aegis I consider it more like an downgrade in terms of software if you are doing "nerd-stuff".
Nov 07 19:03:49 <merlin1991> Choom: you can as long as it's not a kernel module or anything that already resides in the system
Nov 07 19:03:52 <merlin1991> so upgrades
Nov 07 19:03:53 <merlin1991> vpn
Nov 07 19:03:59 <merlin1991> any other fun is not possible
Nov 07 19:04:19 <merlin1991> and wtf why is it overpriced compared to the 4s?
Nov 07 19:04:41 <merlin1991> at least here the 4s is about 100€ more expensive and inferior hardware wise
Nov 07 19:06:25 <Choom> dual core? more resolution? dual gpu? gyroscope?
Nov 07 19:08:49 <petteri> n9 is the best phone out there by far
Nov 07 19:09:17 <petteri> get it and forget n900
Nov 07 19:11:43 <Choom> in terms of user experience, how would you classify the n9 compared to an iphone?
Nov 07 19:12:01 <Choom> it does not have to be better or even match it, I just don't wanna hear that it stutters or the frame rate is generally low
Nov 07 19:12:10 <Choom> or the touchscreen is irresponsive
Nov 07 19:12:31 <tramp> why don't you get an n900?
Nov 07 19:12:39 <Choom> because I already have one
Nov 07 19:12:45 <tramp> ^^
Nov 07 19:13:18 <Choom> and it's old, and the interface didn't age well
Nov 07 19:13:41 <Choom> and the user experience is crappy
Nov 07 19:13:44 <tramp> what's wrong with the interface?
Nov 07 19:13:58 <tramp> what's wrong with the user experience??
Nov 07 19:14:03 <Choom> the frame rate is quite low
Nov 07 19:14:34 <tramp> really, what is it?
Nov 07 19:14:49 <Choom> the resistive single-touch touchscreen sucks, the interface stutters, the browser has to render stuff as you drag content over the screen, it is a terrible experience for anyone who's used to an iphone
Nov 07 19:14:53 <tramp> It has great resolution
Nov 07 19:15:56 <Choom> I am hoping that the N9 fixes these issues without cutting too much on my ability to tinker with it
Nov 07 19:16:27 <tramp> the resistive single-touch screen is great.  You can use any object to tap it, multi-touch is mostly a gimmick anyway.  The interface seems fine after I install the speedpatch
Nov 07 19:16:37 <Choom> oh, and the n900 is extremely thick
Nov 07 19:16:46 <tramp> like a computer ;)
Nov 07 19:17:08 <tramp> i like being able to fill its weight in my pocket, so i know its still there
Nov 07 19:17:09 <Choom> tramp: I hate the n900 when it stutters while I scroll over nokia maps; the iOS google maps ap, by comparison, is always at 60fps
Nov 07 19:17:45 <Choom> zooming is a chore on the n900, and worse than that it's also inconsistent, using the volume buttons in the browser and an on-screen controller in the maps app
Nov 07 19:17:48 <tramp> true, maybe someone should make a google maps app
Nov 07 19:18:25 <tramp> why use the volume controls to zoom, i almost never need anything besides the double-tap autozoom
Nov 07 19:19:10 <Choom> I didn't even know you could zoom by double tapping
Nov 07 19:19:15 <tramp> ;)
Nov 07 19:19:33 <Choom> in any case, dragging anything with a resistive touchscreen is a terrible experience
Nov 07 19:19:39 <tramp> it automatically zooms in on the text or item you tapped, making it fit the screen
Nov 07 19:19:50 <tramp> its perfect, and pwns the iPhones tiny view area
Nov 07 19:19:56 <Choom> yeah, I gathered, it works the same on ios
Nov 07 19:20:12 <tramp> i agree, and the FIND feature in the browser is buggy
Nov 07 19:20:54 <tramp> i wish firefox would increase of its mobile browser
Nov 07 19:21:23 <tramp> s/increase/increase the speed
Nov 07 19:21:28 <tramp> s/increase/increase the speed/
Nov 07 19:21:28 <infobot> tramp meant: s/increase the speed/increase the speed
Nov 07 19:21:35 <Choom> oh and the n900 is quite thick
Nov 07 19:21:38 <tramp> ...
Nov 07 19:21:43 <tramp> like a computer ;)
Nov 07 19:21:52 <tramp> i like the weight in my pocket
Nov 07 19:22:00 <tramp> i can feel it
Nov 07 19:23:08 <tramp> i also like supporting companies that support quality, open source, and control over our phones
Nov 07 19:23:52 <Choom> as an argument for being able to touch it with anything, I have a capacitive stylus that I bought for the ipad which obviously works on any capacitive screen, though I seldom use it, as the fingers are good enough due to those screens' sensitivity
Nov 07 19:24:44 <tramp> the cellular network is partially redundant with the internet, and the phone companies arent going to want to give control over our phones because we'll circumvent their outrageous price for their limited network
Nov 07 19:25:32 <tramp> even Nokia is going backward away from phone control
Nov 07 19:25:33 <Choom> I have an unlimited data plan on my ipad, I could easily use it to make only voip calls if I was in the mood to set it up
Nov 07 19:26:04 <tramp> I'm keeping the N900 until someone offers a replacement for this niche
Nov 07 19:26:12 <Choom> which I am not since my voice plan has a lot of voice time included
Nov 07 19:26:38 <tramp> yes, but the dataplan cost a mint, and dont they sell you phone service with that?
Nov 07 19:26:59 <Choom> no, the data plan is just for data, I can't make phone calls with that card
Nov 07 19:27:04 <tramp> you cant get data without buying their voice
Nov 07 19:27:20 <tramp> hmm
Nov 07 19:28:06 <tramp> with IM voice chat and google voice, you can almost get free calls from any wifi
Nov 07 19:28:08 <Choom> if I stick the card into my iphone and try to make a call, a lady will tell me that my plan does not allow me to make voice calls
Nov 07 19:29:18 <tramp> yeah
Nov 07 19:30:03 <Choom> never tried to make phone calls through google
Nov 07 19:30:16 <tramp> i think the cellular and internet networks should merge and not be redundant
Nov 07 19:31:14 <Choom> one of my issues is that I happen to have one of those epic sequential phone numbers that I don't want to get rid of :P
Nov 07 19:31:44 <Choom> because it's so easy to remember
Nov 07 19:31:48 <tramp> you should be able to build packets and send them through the cellular network
Nov 07 19:32:03 <tramp> heh
Nov 07 19:32:22 <tramp> it should be documented and conform to standards as well
Nov 07 19:32:56 <Choom> well it can be feasibly done with these unlimited data plans, and I believe people who actually care about their phone bills would actually do it
Nov 07 19:33:29 <tramp> is it cheaper to use voice calls through the data plan?
Nov 07 19:33:46 <Choom> it is theoretically free
Nov 07 19:34:02 <tramp> im including the cost of the data plan
Nov 07 19:34:07 <Choom> you pay the data plan as usual, but since it's unlimited, if you have voip you can make calls
Nov 07 19:34:14 <tramp> hmm
Nov 07 19:34:26 <Choom> for me it would be, because my voice plan also includes data
Nov 07 19:34:32 <tramp> i just didnt think you could get data plan without voice service
Nov 07 19:34:37 <Choom> and that data is limited to 1Gb per month
Nov 07 19:35:07 <tramp> i would just get a prepaid dataplan and voice service, its rare im outside of a wifi zone
Nov 07 19:35:28 <tramp> might skip the voice service if the dataplan is reliable enough
Nov 07 19:35:33 <SpeedEvil> Choom: it's not possible to take your number with  you when changing providers? I knwo i can here.
Nov 07 19:35:57 <tramp> ...and here
Nov 07 19:36:11 <Choom> SpeedEvil: it is, but you get a warning when someone calls you to inform the person that they are calling a different provider
Nov 07 19:36:25 <SpeedEvil> Ah.
Nov 07 19:37:08 * SpeedEvil wishes he'd started coding the grocery shopping app.
Nov 07 19:37:10 <SpeedEvil> Oh well.
Nov 07 19:37:15 * SpeedEvil hits up tesco.com.
Nov 07 19:37:33 <tramp> what grocery shopping app?
Nov 07 19:38:11 <Choom> tramp: data plans without voice are standard procedure for 3G internet dongles
Nov 07 19:39:15 <tramp> Acknowledged.
Nov 07 19:39:46 <tramp> I'll try that when I shop for phone service
Nov 07 19:39:59 <tramp> SpeedEvil: What grocery shopping app?
Nov 07 19:40:18 <SpeedEvil> A tesco.com app, using their API.
Nov 07 19:40:48 <SpeedEvil> Ideally featuring such things as being able to point phone at barcode, and say 'get me more of this'
Nov 07 19:41:17 <Choom> ouch
Nov 07 19:41:19 <tramp> europe only?
Nov 07 19:41:26 <SpeedEvil> uk only.
Nov 07 19:41:27 <Choom> I've played with barcode reading before, but only for code39
Nov 07 19:41:47 <tramp> that is an awesome app ive wanted ever since i got a smartphone
Nov 07 19:42:02 <tramp> i only wish it was available in the US
Nov 07 19:42:07 <SpeedEvil> tesco have an API that lets you look up products by barcode.
Nov 07 19:43:42 <tramp> it's a great idea, i know im not the only one who wants one
Nov 07 19:44:43 <SpeedEvil>  The UK is fortunate in that its population density make grocery delivery possible.
Nov 07 19:44:50 <SpeedEvil> I have 4 supermarkets that will deliver to me.
Nov 07 19:44:50 <tramp> as a high-powered tech with a tricorder in his pocket, why does he have to search the whole damn store to find a price scanner!?
Nov 07 19:45:02 <tramp> nice
Nov 07 19:45:17 <SpeedEvil> In the US, this can't work (outside metropolitan areas.
Nov 07 19:46:05 <DocScrutinizer> in Germany this can't work as nobody can live from what the supermarket customer is willing to pay for such service
Nov 07 19:46:14 <tramp> i guess you scan a barcode in a store and it checks the price if delivered
Nov 07 19:46:19 <SpeedEvil> Price is 3 quid.
Nov 07 19:46:25 <SpeedEvil> On a tuesday night
Nov 07 19:46:34 <SpeedEvil> It's up to 6 quid on a sunday afternoon.
Nov 07 19:48:07 <neal> DocScrutinizer: One of the stores near me charges 7 Euros to deliver and we use them when we buy a lot / stock up.
Nov 07 19:48:55 <neal> DocScrutinizer: I'm pretty certain another one charges similar prices (but we haven't use them)
Nov 07 19:49:59 <vdv> somebody here who use qtsdk/qtcreator?
Nov 07 19:50:26 <x29a> vdv: sup?
Nov 07 19:51:33 <vdv> x29a, i just can't get building for fremantle target work with qt sdk 1.1.3
Nov 07 19:52:21 <vdv> after installing sdk, fremantle toolchain was missing
Nov 07 19:52:28 <x29a> yep
Nov 07 19:52:39 <vdv> i've specified an option to updater
Nov 07 19:53:04 <vdv> so that it's allowed me to choose and install it
Nov 07 19:53:12 <vdv> so, it's now there
Nov 07 19:53:18 <vdv> and building for simulator works
Nov 07 19:53:51 <vdv> but seems madde for fremantle is broken
Nov 07 19:53:53 <x29a> simulator is independant from arm-gcc
Nov 07 19:54:25 <vdv> when i do an arm build wrong headers are processed
Nov 07 19:54:37 <vdv> from my current system qt
Nov 07 19:54:46 <vdv> so build fails
Nov 07 19:54:52 <x29a> do you have a "Maemo" folder in qtsdk folder?
Nov 07 19:54:57 <vdv> yes
Nov 07 19:55:26 <x29a> whats in it?
Nov 07 19:55:44 <vdv> sysroot and targets dirs are there
Nov 07 19:56:06 <vdv> and it's possible from qtcreator add corresponding qmake
Nov 07 19:56:19 <vdv> toolchain is automatically added
Nov 07 19:56:22 <x29a> yes
Nov 07 19:56:31 <x29a> so it works from within qtcreator?
Nov 07 19:57:19 <vdv> i can start a build at least
Nov 07 19:57:44 <vdv> but something is wrong with that qmake
Nov 07 19:58:02 <vdv> build fails
Nov 07 19:58:15 <vdv> i can pastebin build output
Nov 07 19:58:20 <vdv> just a sec
Nov 07 19:58:22 <x29a> go ahead
Nov 07 19:58:57 <x29a> vdv: also checkout https://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTSDK-864
Nov 07 20:00:12 <vdv> i've used those instructions to download a toolchain
Nov 07 20:01:49 <vdv> so, do you use qtcreator to make a build for maemo at the moment?
Nov 07 20:01:54 <x29a> yes
Nov 07 20:01:59 <vdv> and deploying also works?
Nov 07 20:02:02 <x29a> yes
Nov 07 20:02:04 <vdv> hmm..
Nov 07 20:02:17 <x29a> vdv: but ive upgraded 1.0 onwards
Nov 07 20:02:21 <x29a> or whatever that version was
Nov 07 20:02:28 <x29a> vdv: does building not work or deploying?
Nov 07 20:02:46 <x29a> you need to be specific with your problems, if you want serious help
Nov 07 20:03:51 <vdv> x29a, both
Nov 07 20:04:24 <x29a> come to the point, youre wasting my time
Nov 07 20:04:26 <vdv> here http://pastebin.com/V98tvA1U
Nov 07 20:04:30 <x29a> k
Nov 07 20:04:39 <vdv> x29a, sorry
Nov 07 20:04:41 <x29a> lol german
Nov 07 20:05:10 <vdv> under /usr/lib/qt i have system qt installed
Nov 07 20:05:16 <vdv> which is 4.6.2
Nov 07 20:05:30 <x29a> thats not relevant for the n900 target
Nov 07 20:05:30 <vdv> it shouldn't be used during build process
Nov 07 20:06:11 <x29a> looks like its using /opt/QtSDK/Maemo, which is good
Nov 07 20:06:22 <vdv> yes
Nov 07 20:06:29 <vdv> qmake runs normally
Nov 07 20:06:51 <x29a> can you post your .pro file as well?
Nov 07 20:07:01 <vdv> of course
Nov 07 20:07:19 <x29a> and you used the qtcreator to add the fremantle target, right?
Nov 07 20:07:44 <vdv> yes
Nov 07 20:07:52 <vdv> i've selected corresponding folder
Nov 07 20:08:16 <vdv> QtSDK/Maemo/4.6.2/targets/fremantle1.3/bin/qmake
Nov 07 20:08:25 <vdv> here's the pro file: http://pastebin.com/zSxMeQFk
Nov 07 20:09:09 <vdv> it's the pro file of the normal default mobile gui project created in qtcreator
Nov 07 20:10:25 <vdv> is that ok, that toolchain is installed under 4.6.2 dir?
Nov 07 20:10:37 <vdv> qt version there is actually 4.7.0
Nov 07 20:11:06 <x29a> yep is fine
Nov 07 20:12:16 <vdv> so, what i did is installed sdk version 1.1.3, then used this https://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTSDK-864 to add maemo toolchain
Nov 07 20:13:14 <vdv> i'm on slackware 13.1
Nov 07 20:13:41 <vdv> i386, 32bit
Nov 07 20:14:15 <vdv> with qt 4.6.2 under /usr/lib/qt
Nov 07 20:15:11 <x29a> which example are you actually trying to build?
Nov 07 20:15:28 <x29a> vdv: can you make a minimal testcase?
Nov 07 20:15:37 <vdv> i create a new project
Nov 07 20:15:39 <x29a> like only a mainfunction?
Nov 07 20:15:52 <vdv> from qtcreator 2.3.0
Nov 07 20:16:00 <vdv> from wizard
Nov 07 20:16:23 <vdv> Qt-Widget-Project
Nov 07 20:16:37 <vdv> Mobile Application
Nov 07 20:17:42 <vdv> using this instructions http://www.anselmolsm.org/blog/madde-qt-4-7/, i was able to build for maemo target, but it's not possible to tell qtcreator use that version of madde
Nov 07 20:18:22 <vdv> so using those instructions i was able to build from terminal
Nov 07 20:19:03 <vdv> running qmake of "qt4-tools-latest" mentioned in tutorial and then make as normal
Nov 07 20:19:16 <vdv> in tutorial from the link above
Nov 07 20:20:02 <x29a> i didnt have to do any of this
Nov 07 20:20:40 <vdv> understand, it's assumed, that one should be able to build and deploy only using qtsdk
Nov 07 20:21:10 <vdv> x29a, what can you tell about build output?
Nov 07 20:21:10 <x29a> i think you messed it up somewhere, like updating a path or something
Nov 07 20:21:31 <x29a> looks weird, would need to digg into the code, and i have no time to do that
Nov 07 20:21:44 <x29a> vdv: lemme create a package which works for me, so you can test with that
Nov 07 20:22:10 <vdv> it's really weird, /usr/lib/qt/include/QtCore/qatomic_i386.h:132: error: impossible constraint in 'asm'
Nov 07 20:23:30 <vdv> x29a, updating a path?
Nov 07 20:25:57 <vdv> x29a, do you also use linux version of the sdk?
Nov 07 20:26:05 <x29a> vdv: ok, i just tried creating a mobile qt stub, and it worked, build and deploy
Nov 07 20:26:16 <x29a> vdv: im afraid i cant do a step by step with you
Nov 07 20:26:20 <x29a> yes, ubuntu 10.04
Nov 07 20:26:34 <vdv> x29a, ok thanks anyway
Nov 07 20:26:51 <x29a> vdv: id advise you to get an "old" qt sdk version, where fremantle is distributed, check if that works, then upgrade with the updater
Nov 07 20:26:54 <vdv> i'll try to remove sdk, and install again
Nov 07 20:27:01 <x29a> yep, thats your best bet
Nov 07 20:27:11 <x29a> check all steps mentioned in the tuts and so on
Nov 07 20:27:11 <x29a> sorry
Nov 07 20:27:38 <vdv> i think the problem is that slackware is not deb distro
Nov 07 20:27:50 <x29a> no clue
Nov 07 20:28:04 <x29a> certainly adds extra layer of issues
Nov 07 20:29:20 <vdv> x29a, sorry, do you maybe know where to get old versions of sdk?
Nov 07 20:29:56 <zogg_laptop> MohammadAG: ping
Nov 07 20:32:32 <x29a> vdv: nope, but ping me when you find it
Nov 07 20:39:57 <x29a> vdv: http://get.qt.nokia.com/qtsdk/Qt_SDK_Lin32_offline_v1_1_1_en.run
Nov 07 20:40:28 <x29a> http://get.qt.nokia.com/qtsdk/Qt_SDK_Lin32_offline_v1_1_en.run
Nov 07 20:40:33 <x29a> and so on
Nov 07 20:45:14 <zogg_laptop> ruskie: re
Nov 07 20:46:58 <vdv> x29a, ah, good, thanks a lot!
Nov 07 20:47:09 <x29a> good luck
Nov 07 20:52:31 <zogg_laptop> =(
Nov 07 20:52:54 <zogg_laptop> DocScrutinizer: does MohammadAG start to study already?
Nov 07 20:55:12 <DocScrutinizer> dunno
Nov 07 20:55:46 <zogg_laptop> damn =(
Nov 07 20:57:13 <DocScrutinizer> wazzup?
Nov 07 20:57:37 <zogg_laptop> i have an idea about free whatsapp alternative
Nov 07 20:57:51 <zogg_laptop> i was talking with him about
Nov 07 20:58:01 <zogg_laptop> wanted advice
Nov 07 20:58:28 <x29a> zogg_laptop: you gonna call it "i seek you"?
Nov 07 20:58:46 <zogg_laptop> x29a: i found you
Nov 07 20:58:47 <zogg_laptop> =)
Nov 07 20:59:12 <zogg_laptop> there are no whatsapp alternative for n9 or n900
Nov 07 21:01:02 <Phlogistique> hey, is anyone using a twitter client with several accounts on his n900?
Nov 07 21:01:11 <neal> khweeteur
Nov 07 21:01:45 <neal> you should use this version though: http://hssl.cs.jhu.edu/~neal/woodchuck/khweeteur.install
Nov 07 21:02:09 <neal> it fixes a number of bugs and adds Woodchuck support (= sane automatic updates)
Nov 07 21:02:19 <neal> Phlogistique: ^
Nov 07 21:02:22 <Phlogistique> yes
Nov 07 21:02:23 <Phlogistique> thanks
Nov 07 21:02:54 <zogg_laptop> neal: are you dev btw?
Nov 07 21:03:07 <frals> lol x29a
Nov 07 21:03:22 <neal> zogg_laptop: What do you mean?
Nov 07 21:03:22 <zogg_laptop> neal: tried to talk to khweeteur dev?
Nov 07 21:03:37 <neal> zogg_laptop: I don't understand that either :/
Nov 07 21:03:37 <x29a> frals: ;)
Nov 07 21:03:37 <zogg_laptop> you made fork with woodchuck or it's khertan?
Nov 07 21:03:54 <neal> he's integrated most of my changes
Nov 07 21:03:55 <Phlogistique> neal: I'm not sure what you mean with "sane automatic updates" though
Nov 07 21:04:06 <neal> bug hasn't made a new release
Nov 07 21:04:13 <zogg_laptop> frals is so in love with n9 i can say it from his tweets =)
Nov 07 21:04:13 <Phlogistique> does the Woodchuck-enabled Khweeteur send data to your Woodchuck server?
Nov 07 21:04:23 <x29a> does it even chuck wood?
Nov 07 21:04:37 <neal> Phlogistique: There is no woodchuck server on the internet
Nov 07 21:04:49 <neal> Phlogistique: Woodchuck is middleware that runs on the n900
Nov 07 21:05:00 <neal> Phlogistique: It figures out when to schedule transfers
Nov 07 21:05:04 <Phlogistique> what's Murmeltier then?
Nov 07 21:05:10 <Phlogistique> oh ok
Nov 07 21:05:19 <neal> Phlogistique: murmeltier is an implementation of woodchuck
Nov 07 21:05:52 <neal> Phlogistique: The original version would schedule updates every 10 minutes, even if you were connected via gprs
Nov 07 21:06:06 <neal> Phlogistique: This is not what most people want
Nov 07 21:06:16 <neal> Phlogistique: Moreover, it wastes battery power
Nov 07 21:06:49 <neal> Phlogistique: A Woodchuck server integrates environmental factors to determine when to do transfers
Nov 07 21:06:52 <Phlogistique> neal: ok
Nov 07 21:06:58 <Phlogistique> interesting project
Nov 07 21:07:05 <neal> Phlogistique: e.g., whether there is wifi, cellular, how much battery power, etc.
Nov 07 21:07:31 <neal> Phlogistique: If you have a project, I'll help you integrate woodchuck support :)
Nov 07 21:08:02 <Phlogistique> I don't have a project, but I might have one soon if Khweeteur doesn't meet my needs
Nov 07 21:08:07 <clownish> hey. is it possible, that the md5sums of the images at http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php are wrong/not updated or something? i downloaded the Fiasco image several times, and never got the md5sum from the MD5SUM file.
Nov 07 21:08:31 <neal> Phlogistique: Don't write another twitter client! :)
Nov 07 21:08:32 <zogg_laptop> btw does khweeteur runs on n9?
Nov 07 21:08:42 <neal> zogg_laptop: Not yet.
Nov 07 21:08:51 <Phlogistique> neal: why not?
Nov 07 21:08:55 <zogg_laptop> and where is twitgo ? or what was the name?
Nov 07 21:08:56 <neal> zogg_laptop: At least, it is not properly integrated.
Nov 07 21:09:11 <neal> Phlogistique: Improve an existing one, instead
Nov 07 21:09:24 <zogg_laptop> neal: i used it everyday when i had n900 =) but a lot of time passed
Nov 07 21:09:48 <Phlogistique> neal: oh. Yes, indeed, why not.
Nov 07 21:11:16 <neal> Phlogistique: would be nicer to a good one then a lot of medicre ones
Nov 07 21:11:40 <Phlogistique> yes
Nov 07 21:11:50 <zogg_laptop> neal: Phlogistique if you want to add too much features amke it modular =)
Nov 07 21:11:57 <Phlogistique> but people needs in Twitter clients can be very different
Nov 07 21:12:10 <Phlogistique> zogg_laptop: I need complicated features, but I hate complicated programs :)
Nov 07 21:13:56 <zogg_laptop> =)
Nov 07 21:14:02 <zogg_laptop> i need to go now
Nov 07 21:36:12 <vdv> x29a, i've moved my /opt/QtSDK dir to ubuntu vmware host (maemo sdk image) and there building and deploying is ok
Nov 07 21:38:36 <x29a> vdv: good to know, glad you managed to get it running
Nov 07 21:40:02 <vdv> x29a, taking in account, that nokia doesn't officially support distros other than ubuntu, it was too naive to assume that sdk will work on my slackware
Nov 07 21:40:38 <vdv> inspite all dependencies mentioned on sdk download site are met on slackware too
Nov 07 21:56:45 <Phlogistique> does khweeter post every tweet to every tweeter account configured for posting?
Nov 07 21:56:57 <neal> no
Nov 07 21:57:18 <neal> only those you tell it to
Nov 07 21:58:03 <Phlogistique> I don't get how you choose which twitter account you want to post to. Or is it only the global setting?
Nov 07 21:58:16 <neal> are you using my version?
Nov 07 21:58:24 <Phlogistique> yes
Nov 07 21:58:35 <Phlogistique> well I think so
Nov 07 21:58:38 <neal> when you tweet, it asks you
Nov 07 21:58:50 <neal> if you have more than one account
Nov 07 21:59:11 <Phlogistique> it crashes all the time though
Nov 07 21:59:19 <neal> those that are select are the default and you can change them
Nov 07 21:59:22 <neal> hmm.
Nov 07 21:59:41 <neal> can you send me ~/.khweeteur/logging
Nov 07 21:59:50 <Phlogistique> (or it closes its mainwindow for a reason I can't understand)
Nov 07 22:00:12 <neal> there is likely a bug
Nov 07 22:00:19 <Phlogistique> there is no such file
Nov 07 22:00:33 <neal> then you aren't using my version
Nov 07 22:00:39 <Phlogistique> only "avatars", "cache" and "topost"
Nov 07 22:00:41 <Phlogistique> oh, ok
Nov 07 22:00:55 <neal> I fixed a lot of bugs
Nov 07 22:00:56 <Phlogistique> there must be some remanence of the previously installed version
Nov 07 22:01:08 <Phlogistique> I'm not sure how to deinstall it better than I did already
Nov 07 22:01:19 <neal> dpkg -P khweeteur
Nov 07 22:01:40 <neal> you can see my changes here: https://gitorious.org/~nwalfield/khweeteur/nwalfields-khweeteur
Nov 07 22:03:27 <neal> or, dpkg -l khwetteur to configure which version you are running
Nov 07 22:03:50 <neal> if you already installed khweeteur from extras, then I don't think HAM will allow you to upgrade it using another repository
Nov 07 22:05:49 <Phlogistique> neal: oh, that's the problem then
Nov 07 22:11:39 <neal> Phlogistique: If you have some time, would you consider reviewing my woodchuck-replaced packages so they can get into extras: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1118751&postcount=4
Nov 07 22:13:21 <Phlogistique> neal: I will look into that, but I don't know how to do it
Nov 07 22:13:52 <neal> the short version is you install the packages and if they don't break anything, you vote thumbs up
Nov 07 22:14:06 <Phlogistique> How am I installing them if HAM refuses to update Khweeteur?
Nov 07 22:14:20 <Phlogistique> well I can at least install the woodchuck ones
Nov 07 22:14:46 <neal> if you purge khweeteur, then reinstall it, it should work
Nov 07 22:14:51 <neal> the easiest thing might be to:
Nov 07 22:14:56 <neal> dpkg -P khweeteur
Nov 07 22:15:19 <Phlogistique> that's what I did, but I still got Khweeteur 0.5.27
Nov 07 22:15:25 <neal> append: deb http://hssl.cs.jhu.edu/~neal/woodchuck fremantle-1.3 maemo
Nov 07 22:15:33 <neal> to /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list
Nov 07 22:15:53 <Phlogistique> I have it
Nov 07 22:16:04 <neal> and then: apt-get install khweeteur 
Nov 07 22:16:10 <Phlogistique> well I have the maemo commponent but not the fremantle-1.3
Nov 07 22:17:32 <neal> what does apt-cache show khweeteur | grep Version show?
Nov 07 22:18:34 <neal> apt-get install khweeteur=0.6.1-1
Nov 07 22:18:37 <neal> that should also work
Nov 07 22:19:03 <Phlogistique> rr http://hssl.cs.jhu.edu fremantle-1.3/fremantle-1.3 Packages 404 Not Found
Nov 07 22:19:03 <Phlogistique> W: Failed to fetch http://hssl.cs.jhu.edu/~neal/woodchuck/dists/fremantle-1.3/fremantle-1.3/binary-armel/Packages  404 Not Found
Nov 07 22:19:40 <neal> whoah
Nov 07 22:19:46 <neal> how did you get that?
Nov 07 22:19:55 <Phlogistique> apt-get update
Nov 07 22:20:39 <neal> it should be http://hssl.cs.jhu.edu/~neal/woodchuck/dists/fremantle-1.3/frema\
Nov 07 22:21:01 <Phlogistique> ok I see the problem
Nov 07 22:21:03 <neal> http://hssl.cs.jhu.edu/~neal/woodchuck/dists/maemo/fremantle-1.3/binary-armel/Packages
Nov 07 22:21:05 <Phlogistique> it was silly
Nov 07 22:21:16 <neal> what was the problem?
Nov 07 22:23:44 <Phlogistique> I had
Nov 07 22:23:53 <Phlogistique> deb http://hssl.cs.jhu.edu/~neal/woodchuck fremantle-1.3 maemo fremantle-1.3
Nov 07 22:23:56 <Phlogistique> in my sources.list
Nov 07 22:24:04 <neal> did you add that?
Nov 07 22:24:07 <Phlogistique> yes
Nov 07 22:24:10 <neal> or is that from my .install file
Nov 07 22:24:11 <Phlogistique> in the graphical interface
Nov 07 22:24:27 <neal> oh, the .install file should have added the repository
Nov 07 22:24:33 <Phlogistique> yes it has added
Nov 07 22:24:46 <Phlogistique> the repository
Nov 07 22:24:49 <Phlogistique> I was being silly
Nov 07 22:24:56 <neal> ok :)
Nov 07 22:25:12 <Phlogistique> now I have your khweeteur
Nov 07 22:25:25 <Phlogistique> and I have a Khweeteur crash report
Nov 07 22:25:45 <neal> that's left over from the old version
Nov 07 22:25:48 <Phlogistique> It has sent a bug report to the bugtracker (?)
Nov 07 22:26:01 <neal> if you said yes, then it did
Nov 07 22:26:34 <Phlogistique> is it something to which you have access or should I upload the logging/ file?
Nov 07 22:26:46 <Phlogistique> also does logging/ contain any private information?
Nov 07 22:27:17 <neal> when khweeteur crashes, it creates a crash report
Nov 07 22:27:27 <neal> when khweeteur starts, it checks if there is a crash report
Nov 07 22:27:34 <Phlogistique> I do hope it's not sending what is written in the .log file
Nov 07 22:27:47 <neal> when you started my version of khweeteur, it say a crash report
Nov 07 22:27:52 <neal> s/say/saw/
Nov 07 22:27:53 <infobot> neal meant: when you started my version of khweeteur, it saw a crash report
Nov 07 22:27:57 <neal> and ask if you wanted to send it
Nov 07 22:28:00 <Phlogistique> yes
Nov 07 22:28:04 <Phlogistique> ok
Nov 07 22:28:12 <neal> if that was the first time you started my version of khweeteur, it was not "my" bug
Nov 07 22:28:27 <neal> the crash report only includes the back trace for the particular crash
Nov 07 22:28:35 <neal> the crash report does not include the log
Nov 07 22:28:37 <Phlogistique> ok
Nov 07 22:28:50 <Phlogistique> because the log file does contain private information
Nov 07 22:28:57 <neal> the log does not contain your password
Nov 07 22:29:09 <neal> but it does contain events, like what searchs you subscribe to, etc.
Nov 07 22:29:12 <Phlogistique> it contains a token and token secret
Nov 07 22:29:20 <Phlogistique> that enables posting on my behalf
Nov 07 22:29:22 <Phlogistique> <
Nov 07 22:29:28 <neal> oh, that should be removed
Nov 07 22:29:29 <Phlogistique> (oops)
Nov 07 22:29:33 <neal> good point
Nov 07 22:30:15 <neal> do you have the surrounding test?
Nov 07 22:30:20 <neal> text, rather
Nov 07 22:30:33 <Phlogistique> I just revoked the access
Nov 07 22:30:37 <Phlogistique> so I can send the full text
Nov 07 22:30:45 <neal> ok
Nov 07 22:31:00 <neal> anyways, the logging files are not uploaded
Nov 07 22:32:05 <Phlogistique> http://neetwork.net/up/misc/logging/ 
Nov 07 22:36:13 <neal> great, I've fixed the bug
Nov 07 22:36:17 <neal> it will be in the next version
Nov 07 22:37:05 <Phlogistique> thanks!
Nov 07 22:38:44 <neal> do you want to be thanked in the change log?
Nov 07 22:39:50 <Phlogistique> It was mainly you helping me out so I don't think there is any need.
Nov 07 22:40:08 <neal> you found the bug :)
Nov 07 22:40:16 <neal> or, at least observed it
Nov 07 22:45:31 <Phlogistique> Installed the murmeltier, apt-woodchuck and smart-storage-logger
Nov 07 22:46:00 <Phlogistique> not sure what I do know
Nov 07 22:46:11 <Phlogistique> if nothing bad happens in a day, I upvote you?
Nov 07 22:46:21 <neal> something like that :)
Nov 07 22:46:53 <neal> you can read about the programs on my homepage
Nov 07 22:47:11 <neal> other programs that are woodchuck enabled are feedingit (an rss reader) and gpodder (a podcast manager)
Nov 07 22:48:12 <Phlogistique> I have seen that
Nov 07 22:48:17 <neal> ok
Nov 07 22:48:48 <neal> if khweeteur doesn't meet your needs, I'd be interested to hear why
Nov 07 22:50:38 <Phlogistique> well for starters I'd prefer several timelines for my several accounts
Nov 07 22:50:57 <Phlogistique> but it's hard to implement in a small screen
Nov 07 22:51:04 <neal> yes
Nov 07 22:51:14 <Phlogistique> (while keeping the whole experiense snappy I mean)
Nov 07 22:51:33 <neal> and where do you put all the buttons?
Nov 07 22:52:08 <Phlogistique> that's the problem. the standard solution is using horizontal scrolling for this
Nov 07 22:52:30 <Phlogistique> Maybe I should get into the code and implement it
Nov 07 22:52:52 <Phlogistique> I'm not a huge C++ fan though
Nov 07 22:53:07 <neal> it's python
Nov 07 22:53:15 <Phlogistique> oh, cool
Nov 07 22:53:30 <Phlogistique> cloning it
Nov 07 22:56:32 <neal> Phlogistique: I'd recommend cloning my repo
Nov 07 22:56:38 <neal> https://gitorious.org/~nwalfield/khweeteur/nwalfields-khweeteur
Nov 07 23:03:46 <Phlogistique> that's what I did
Nov 07 23:04:08 <Phlogistique> what's nwalfiels? is it your name?
Nov 07 23:04:37 <neal> walfield is my last name, yes
Nov 07 23:04:51 <neal> s is used to form the genetive
Nov 07 23:04:58 <Phlogistique> oh.
Nov 08 02:24:29 <HyperSnyper> what the hell has happened to HDD prices....
Nov 08 02:24:42 <SpeedEvil> Water.
Nov 08 02:24:52 <HyperSnyper> bought 2 x 2TB drives not along ago sure i paid £120 for both
Nov 08 02:25:02 <HyperSnyper> can't find many places selling one for that anymore..
Nov 08 02:25:18 <SpeedEvil> Flooding happened.
Nov 08 02:25:23 <HyperSnyper> oh..
Nov 08 02:25:25 <SpeedEvil> It washed away all the 0s.
Nov 08 02:25:26 <DocScrutinizer> eh?
Nov 08 02:25:29 <HyperSnyper> tai
Nov 08 02:25:46 <SpeedEvil> Flooding took out 20% of global disk capacity.
Nov 08 02:25:50 <SpeedEvil> Or something like that.
Nov 08 02:26:00 <DocScrutinizer> really now?
Nov 08 02:26:02 <HyperSnyper> can that really cause 50% prices increase..
Nov 08 02:26:08 <SpeedEvil> yes.
Nov 08 02:26:08 <DocScrutinizer> where?
Nov 08 02:26:16 <HyperSnyper> everywhere!!
Nov 08 02:26:20 <SpeedEvil> I'm gonna guess 'near water'.
Nov 08 02:26:27 <SpeedEvil> Thailand?
Nov 08 02:26:28 <DocScrutinizer> hahaha
Nov 08 02:26:43 <DocScrutinizer> thailand producing HDD???
Nov 08 02:27:00 <SpeedEvil> http://www.marketwatch.com/story/thai-flooding-seen-raising-disk-drive-prices-2011-10-29
Nov 08 02:27:07 <HyperSnyper> 4 drives ive just looked at are all thai
Nov 08 02:27:09 <DocScrutinizer> duh!
Nov 08 02:27:25 <SpeedEvil> Technology research firm IHS iSuppli has estimated that worldwide  shipments of hard drives could fall by 30% during the last three months  of the year. Reuters reported that some retailers contacted have raised  the average price on a hard drive to $90 from $60.  							
Nov 08 02:27:26 <SpeedEvil> ow
Nov 08 02:28:30 <DocScrutinizer> insane
Nov 08 02:28:40 <HyperSnyper> think im going to go hunting for small shops tomorow that havent realised price increase
Nov 08 02:28:43 * HyperSnyper hopes
Nov 08 02:29:33 * DocScrutinizer recalls when last manuf (TI?) announced stop of SN7406, the chip gone up from 30ct to 60$
Nov 08 02:30:29 <HyperSnyper> i had aload of DS flashcards that tripled in price over night when they announced end of production
Nov 08 02:30:45 <x29a> are you a reseller?
Nov 08 02:30:49 <HyperSnyper> nope
Nov 08 02:30:58 <HyperSnyper> xmas presents one year
Nov 08 02:30:59 <HyperSnyper> :D
Nov 08 02:30:59 <x29a> so whats the point in hogging stuff?
Nov 08 02:31:01 <x29a> lol
Nov 08 02:31:04 <HyperSnyper> bought aload cheap from china
Nov 08 02:31:14 <x29a> give SSD's, and kids will be happy
Nov 08 02:33:17 <HyperSnyper> anyone got suggestions of good playstation games
Nov 08 02:33:38 <SpeedEvil> Elite.
Nov 08 02:33:55 <SpeedEvil> Nethack.
Nov 08 02:34:10 <HyperSnyper> oO
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Nov 08 02:59:57 2011