**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Nov 11 02:59:57 2011 Nov 11 03:00:01 oh well, check lshal|grep batt Nov 11 03:00:35 merlin1991: well, the problem is mine doesn't *go off* until I wake it up some other way Nov 11 03:00:54 Mine even wakes up from off. Nov 11 03:01:29 * merlin1991 is feeling brave Nov 11 03:01:32 doing the ota upgrade Nov 11 03:01:34 that'd be damn sad if it wouldn't Nov 11 03:02:49 luke-jr: that sounds extemely convenient and just what I'd expect from an alarm clock Nov 11 03:03:12 DocScrutinizer: not so convenient when it could mean your baby starves to death Nov 11 03:03:40 Babies tend to have inbuilt alarms. Nov 11 03:03:46 errr how would that happen? Nov 11 03:03:46 * luke-jr ended up getting an old fashoned alarm Nov 11 03:03:50 SpeedEvil: this one didn't. Nov 11 03:03:53 Ah. :/ Nov 11 03:04:03 DocScrutinizer: all the information there matches the advanced power applet as well as batter eye and the widget Nov 11 03:04:07 :) Nov 11 03:04:12 aaah go *off* Nov 11 03:04:14 DocScrutinizer: I set alarm to wake me up to feed her in 3 hours. It doesn't go off. She sleeps through the night way too young. Nov 11 03:04:15 maybe it just needs more "training" Nov 11 03:04:20 sorry my english is poor Nov 11 03:04:28 also.. where do i lower the power of the wifi? Nov 11 03:04:47 isn't there an option to change its power? Nov 11 03:05:00 she's a little piggy now (a year later) tho :p Nov 11 03:05:02 Lowering power will almost never change it. Nov 11 03:05:07 Macer: wifi network settings advanced Nov 11 03:05:09 Uage Nov 11 03:05:14 but next baby, I ain't trusting the N900… Nov 11 03:05:16 Power consumption Nov 11 03:05:17 ok thanks Nov 11 03:05:34 at the end of config a particular net Nov 11 03:06:20 DocScrutinizer: is there way to do this for the wifi hotspot? Nov 11 03:06:25 since range isn't really an issue? Nov 11 03:07:02 Macer: no idea, but it seems this settings is global for all networks and thus maybe for hotspot as well Nov 11 03:07:19 ah ok. so it isn't just for the network in question? Nov 11 03:07:26 why not a different screen for it then since it is global Nov 11 03:07:27 ? Nov 11 03:07:31 yeah it's terribly misplaced Nov 11 03:07:39 maybe a settings applet for it Nov 11 03:07:57 a "Power" settings applet would be nice with all the tweaks for savingn power rolled into one applet Nov 11 03:08:03 In nearly all cases, changing hte power will make no perceptible differencee to battery life. Nov 11 03:08:13 ah i see Nov 11 03:08:19 As the amount of time you spend transmitting is very small. Nov 11 03:08:21 for hotspot it will Nov 11 03:08:31 And the power usage when listening in hotspot mode will usually swamp it. Nov 11 03:08:41 Also the 3G will utterly swamp it. Nov 11 03:08:54 yeah Nov 11 03:08:58 It may be measurable, but it's not going to be noticable. Nov 11 03:09:07 well... any bit will do Nov 11 03:09:10 True. Nov 11 03:09:32 100mW when you have a good network at 10mW just makes a little more sense too Nov 11 03:09:41 to just drop it regardless Nov 11 03:09:46 yeah Nov 11 03:09:47 why not make it auto? :) Nov 11 03:09:50 * luke-jr just charges whenever he's in the car. Nov 11 03:09:50 heh Nov 11 03:10:11 if it detects too many tx pkt failures to bump it up to 100mW on its own Nov 11 03:10:36 anyway hotspot without charger attached seems no real usecase after all Nov 11 03:10:54 DocScrutinizer: true but i am talking about general roaming usage of the wifi Nov 11 03:11:03 at home 10mW may be fine because of proximity to the router Nov 11 03:11:08 an airport... not so much Nov 11 03:11:09 Macer: hard to detect tx errors Nov 11 03:11:18 ah ok. well.. figured it sounded like a good idea ;) Nov 11 03:11:42 haviung a power section in settings dedicated to power tweaks would still be a nice thing to have too Nov 11 03:11:58 maybe even with high and low power profiles that turn things on and off by simply swapping profiles Nov 11 03:12:33 a general profile management that's not only swapping ringtones would be very nice Nov 11 03:13:54 a profile manager that at very least knows about *all* sliders and buttons in settings and you can pick which ones get changed on activating this particular new profile Nov 11 03:14:13 like brightness, time to tklock, whatnot else Nov 11 03:14:24 ringtone melody Nov 11 03:15:53 yeah... that would be nice.. but power profiles come in handy as well ;) Nov 11 03:15:55 also "switch to WLAN if available [x]" Nov 11 03:16:24 lol... yeah.. that's kind of a pain sometimes tbh... maybe making a network hotlist of which to auto switch to ? Nov 11 03:16:27 what's in a power profile that such a general profile manager can't handle? Nov 11 03:16:30 whitelist Nov 11 03:16:47 it isn't about handling.. it's about what it shouldn't handle when only related to power Nov 11 03:17:07 if you want to swap to low power mode where the screen dims.. wifi powers down a bit... etc... but your ringtone stays the same :) Nov 11 03:17:14 >>...and you can pick which ones get changed...<< Nov 11 03:17:16 it would take a lot more sliders and adjustments in a general profile Nov 11 03:17:30 as opposed to a strictly power profile changing design Nov 11 03:17:31 And more calls to support from confused users. Nov 11 03:17:44 SpeedEvil: that as well Nov 11 03:17:51 lumping it all together would kind of confuse people Nov 11 03:18:19 nonsense Nov 11 03:18:40 people are easily adjusted to "this makes my battery live longer" as opposed to "this makes my battery use more power while playig a rock ringtone and disabling gtalk while enabling gvoice and turning on 2 email accounts and disabling the work one..." Nov 11 03:19:01 simplicity is why iphone wins heh Nov 11 03:19:16 Macer: you're talking gibberish Nov 11 03:19:21 they wouldn't lump everything together to that... because not only would people get frustrated... but they would also have less shiny buttons to play with :) Nov 11 03:19:44 Macer: your horizon is obviously limited on that topic Nov 11 03:19:47 no i am not... i meana don't get me wrong a general profile is nice but lumping too much into a single change Nov 11 03:20:13 >>...and you can pick which ones get changed...<< Nov 11 03:20:45 yeah but you would want to change 50 things in a general profile as opposed to just a few basic power changes to lower and raise power consumption in the power vs performance game? Nov 11 03:21:31 that is something you do while you have a ton of time to tweak every setting related to a general profile .. not when you just want to set up something quick that will dim the screen and turn off your gps Nov 11 03:21:57 or turn it back on and raise the brightness because you are going to drive Nov 11 03:22:43 procedure: open settings, click "define new general profile", do whatever changes you want to do to settings subgroups, on closing settings main menu the profile manager pops up, shows all the things you edited so you can remove edits you did accidently, then you name the new profile and it will contain only the *changes* you made while it leaves other settings untouched when you activate that profile eventually Nov 11 03:24:45 so kinda like macrorecording? Nov 11 03:25:14 DocScrutinizer: i get that but you are lumping too much into one thing :) Nov 11 03:25:25 which is a great addition for people willing to do that Nov 11 03:25:38 but i still think a power only version would also be useful Nov 11 03:25:59 you can also just let the gerneral profule USE the power profile ;) Nov 11 03:26:03 that woudl save time Nov 11 03:26:19 I'd even add a few gimmicks to that final profile review menu where you can remove unwanted edits from the profile: select particular changes to be relative rather than the defualt absolute, so e.g changing volume change (60%->70%) to relative will make that profile not set volume to 70% unconditionally biut rather *increase* any current vilume by 10% Nov 11 03:27:03 so really all you are doing is taking the entire settings app... and turning it all into one giant lumped page with all the sliders and changes? ;) Nov 11 03:27:21 why not just save what all those settings are ? Nov 11 03:27:27 Macer: wtf is wrong with a profile that records and sets only your power related settings if you did only power reölated settings. How is that "too much" nad how are you thinking it could get "less"? Nov 11 03:27:50 meaning... do it all from settings and just have a button that says "save profile as...." Nov 11 03:27:53 as an applet Nov 11 03:27:57 Macer: you completely missed what I tried to explain Nov 11 03:28:01 no i didn't Nov 11 03:28:11 i just think your method is non-intuitive Nov 11 03:28:14 no offense Nov 11 03:29:05 Macer: YES you DID, and I don't give a shit about what you think about what you think is my idea of that applet as IT ISN'T what I told you Nov 11 03:29:53 a profile manager that at very least knows about *all* sliders and buttons in settings and you can pick which ones get changed on activating this particular new profile Nov 11 03:29:54 :) it's youru applet.. i was just throwing ideas out there and being the devil's advocate.. no need to get worked up over it Nov 11 03:30:17 [2011-11-11 04:21:15] procedure: open settings, click "define new general profile", do whatever changes you want to do to settings subgroups, on closing settings main menu the profile manager pops up, shows all the things you edited so you can remove edits you did accidently, then you name the new profile and it will contain only the *changes* you made while it leaves other settings untouched when you activate that profile Nov 11 03:30:19 eventually Nov 11 03:30:53 my applet is just a button "start new profile" and a requester "name: " Nov 11 03:31:26 there's definitely *nothing* crammed in that possibly could get trown out in that Nov 11 03:31:55 fair enough but a power profile selector should still be in settings.. what if you want to maintain the exact same profile but simply swap power profiles on the fly? Nov 11 03:32:18 * DocScrutinizer headdesks Nov 11 03:32:42 do you go through all the subsettings on what you think will save power and make a new general profile? Nov 11 03:33:10 or do you just open a power subsetion in settings and adjust it all there? Nov 11 03:33:15 which do you think would be easier? Nov 11 03:33:25 Macer: you're free to publish your greatest profiles for restoring them via this general profile manager Nov 11 03:34:14 DocScrutinizer: you remind me of the mind of an engineer ;) Nov 11 03:34:43 then user will just open "set general profile", pick "macer's acme power profile #2" from list and done Nov 11 03:36:05 I don't see how your specialized powe rprofile manager could do it any better than that Nov 11 03:36:29 DocScrutinizer: i completely understand what you are saying.. but what steps would i need to do in order to adjust the power settings.. i would be stuck in the settings app for about 10 mins... going through all the things within the subsections and finding what i believe will save power instead of opening up a simple power subsection with them all in one place for me to adjust and save a profile.... with your methid using both the power profile alongside the gern Nov 11 03:36:51 and later have the ability to hotswap power profiles on the fly if that is all you want to adjust.. instead of having 20 different general profiles just to change the power Nov 11 03:37:04 * DocScrutinizer headdesks some more Nov 11 03:38:12 :) lmao... yes.. you are definately an engineer. instead of thinking like an engineer.. think like an architect ;) Nov 11 03:38:23 BS Nov 11 03:38:24 ok.. i will quit bugging you with this heh Nov 11 03:39:31 engineers are funny in a sense that if you assign them to a water valve.. they will want to completely reconstruct the entire water piping instead of simply making a better valve... architects are more like artists trying to determine what would best suit the poeple who will use it Nov 11 03:39:41 "edit profile", pick name, do whatever edits you think the profile needs *in standards settimgs et al dialog*, click "save edited profile" Nov 11 03:39:58 Macer: you start to troll Nov 11 03:40:03 i'm not! :-P Nov 11 03:40:17 yet Nov 11 03:40:29 you are just bent on your own way. i am just offering the alternative Nov 11 03:40:33 wanting to think like an architect doesn't make you one Nov 11 03:40:43 based on the way i would expect to use something in that manner Nov 11 03:41:07 as well as .. "what if my 5 year old son used the n900...." :) which is what most people are who use devices Nov 11 03:41:22 Macer: you are not offering any alternative, you don't see that all your alternatives are imlemented to the dot in a generla approach I described Nov 11 03:41:57 they are but in a different fashion than what would be expected.. you are reminding me of what symbian would do with its profiles and that was a bad way to do it Nov 11 03:42:48 I don't give a flying F of what you're reminded, I insist in you failing to understand what I say Nov 11 03:43:16 very well Nov 11 03:43:46 and you actually haven't explained what *exactly* you are expecting yet Nov 11 03:44:20 i think i did multiple times very clearly.. but it's ok. it isn't that serious :) i am going to eat and watch margin call again Nov 11 03:44:22 all you came up with is "a new dialog that has a random selection of things" Nov 11 03:46:17 to save power on the N900 in maemo.. you open settings.. you open display.. change the brightness... you open bluetooth.. on off... wifi.. on off.... power level... etc... all in differnt areas.. whil i understand what you are looking at whereas the general profile controls EVERYTHING in settings... which is fine... i believe there should be one simply for power settings alone with these options which are ONLY RELATED TO POWER placed within the settings subsection Nov 11 03:47:00 NO THAT'S NOT WHAT I SAID Nov 11 03:47:36 omg.... honestly. never mind. Nov 11 03:47:45 back to my margin call and food Nov 11 03:47:55 nothing is only related to power. Nov 11 04:02:32 listen dude. You talk about a special view that collects settings available elsewhere in one place. That's all fine (though I don't exactly see who's going to decide which of the plethora of settings should go in there), anyway with general profile manager you got a tool to create that view in no time: somebody else (=the nice Mr Macer) published a profile pack for General Profile Manager which contains 1 or 2 or 20 so called PowerProfiles. Nov 11 04:02:33 You can open such a profile for editing in two different ways: a) "edit in profile" which will open a dialog that's exactly your view of selected things, e.g one of MrMacers PowerProfiles has just brightness and WLAN-power so opening that profile via "edit in profile" will just show those two settings to chenge them to your liking. After you're don tweaking either brightness or/and WLAN-power you have to option to apply and/or store the Nov 11 04:02:35 changed profile, under same or new name. Method B) is "change profile settings" and will just load the profile and open the standard system settings dialog, you do whatever tweaks you want in settings, to brightness, WLAN-Power, or any other of the available settings (in which case the new changed setting gets added to the edited profile), and on closing the settings system dialog you again get the option to save the profile under same or Nov 11 04:02:36 new name (applying it doesn't make sense here as you already applied all changes when you messed with settings dialog). Nov 11 04:12:32 somebody else will want to create a "night" profile that sets brightness, alarm-clock-ringtone and loudness, and ONLY that. He clicks "create new profile", settings dialog opens, he sets brightness and the other two to the values he needs for sleeping and wake up alarm, then stores this profile under name "myNight". Any later time he may want to change brightness, he does exactly what I explained above (either 'edit in profile "MyNight"' or Nov 11 04:12:33 'change profile settings "MyNight"') and he *might* want to save that new profile under name "MyDarkNight" - or he decides it's just a convenient way to change brightness via "edit in profile" and then go to "apply profile" instead of "apply and safe" and he got the personalized view that has only "brightness" "ringtone" "volume" and on selecting "apply" he discards the edits and MyNight stays unaltered which is exactly what you were asking Nov 11 04:12:35 for Nov 11 04:18:10 and if you feel like you really need that special PowerProfile settings sub-applet (actually it's a plugin I'd say) I promise to you if I specify General Power Manager then it comes with an API that makes implementing that settings submenu plugin a matter of invoking $>gpm --edit-in-profile -profile-name "MrMacer's ACME Powerprofile" Nov 11 04:18:57 s/General Power/General Profile/ Nov 11 04:18:57 DocScrutinizer meant: and if you feel like you really need that special PowerProfile settings sub-applet (actually it's a plugin I'd say) I promise to you if I specify General Profile Manager then it comes with an API that makes implementing that settings submenu plugin a matt... Nov 11 04:19:00 yay Nov 11 04:24:44 to even more please your call for simplicity, I'll make that $>gpm --edit-in-profile --no-edit=incremental,delete-control --profile-name="MrMacer's ACME Powerprofile" Nov 11 04:26:43 so your users won't get puzzled by a "incremental [x]" and a "remove this control from profile" widget in your customized view that only shows `all power related settings in one place' Nov 11 04:33:56 I admit my concept has one drawback compared to a generic powermanager pliugin for settings as you suggested: edits in the "edit in profile" don't take instant effect, rather the whole bunch gets applied when you hit either "apply" or "apply&save" button. I don't think this is am unbearable shortcoming, and we could even work around it for some selected settings like e.g brightness and volume, by implementing a direct control link to the Nov 11 04:33:58 actual setting in system for those Nov 11 05:05:46 oops I wasn't completely precise above: on both "create new profile" and "change profile settings" on closing the system's settings dialog GPM will open up the "edit in profile" view for the actual setting, so you `could delete controls you accidently changed though you don't want them in this profile", as well as change some of the controls (I was about to write "of the changed controls" but I think meanwhile it's clear in a profile there Nov 11 05:05:47 are always only changed controled stored) to "relative" (I named it "incremental" but I think "relative" is the better term). Nov 11 06:14:48 does anybody here use theonering? Nov 11 06:14:54 i can't seem to get gvoice to call directly Nov 11 06:15:14 doing the awkward forwarding thing seems to work but that kind of sucks... does it simply not call directly through gvoice? Nov 11 06:16:47 judging by the error received i am going to assume yes. :) ah well Nov 11 06:29:45 hello Nov 11 06:41:52 http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Barnes-Noble-petition-and-letter-to-DoJ/ Nov 11 09:51:59 hello! Nov 11 09:52:03 Still bed time? Nov 11 09:53:37 Can I lock the desktop? So when click the desktop, the setting icon won't be shown Nov 11 09:54:41 on CSSU yes Nov 11 09:54:50 resp on MHD Nov 11 09:55:15 DocScrutinizer: wow, CSSU is so featureful Nov 11 09:55:27 oops, maybe this was just for the applauncher menu though Nov 11 09:55:28 DocScrutinizer: I can't understand 'resp on MHD' ... Nov 11 09:55:48 scratch it, doesn't matter Nov 11 10:03:54 LaoLang_cool: seems CSSU does not support no-edit on desktop, it would be a very nice improvement though. You should open a ticket for this suggestion Nov 11 10:04:32 DocScrutinizer: oh, yup, but I'm using offical release 38 pr Nov 11 10:37:18 anybody could tell me how to configure KNetworkManager on PC to use a 3G USB modem (here: N900)? Nov 11 10:40:16 I Nov 11 10:41:04 I've personally never tried KNetworkManager but I have it working with just NetworkManager alone here. I guess because its xubuntu its more or less `plug-n-play' :) why is your's showing up errors? Nov 11 10:44:03 yes, that's the question Nov 11 10:45:45 so your intentions was to try and get KNetworkManager to work and not worry about NetworkManager? :) Nov 11 10:46:14 hi. is twitter supported officially in conversation app? i only have ovi/skype/jabber/sip/facebook there (although I do have twitter support for sharing pics) Nov 11 10:46:54 my intention was to access internet over N900 USB modem, and it doesn't connect. Possibly because of "number: *99#" not correctly set by me, or whatever Nov 11 10:47:09 i've seen a plugin from 2009, but apparently it doesn't work anymore, and other news suggest it was included in some update to the app itself.. Nov 11 10:49:42 *99# I presume is pretty much the form of tethering number being used. I have 3 different mobile broadband accounts (2 currently active but with the same provider). The bottom line is I do not think *99$# is the issue Nov 11 11:02:54 DocScrutinizer51: the 99 is a magic number - it's the same constnatly. Nov 11 11:03:25 The issues I've seen configuring 3G are APN, and password, and compression negotiation. Nov 11 11:03:38 Look at syslog for ppp errors. Nov 11 11:03:49 That said - I don't actually use configurators, I use ppp 'raw' Nov 11 11:04:00 Like I did back in 1996. Nov 11 11:04:28 * SpeedEvil should probably mmove on. Nov 11 11:30:04 * ShadowJK also uses ppp "raw" Nov 11 11:30:29 "while true; do pppd call gprs ; done" Nov 11 11:32:36 uhm anyone has twitter integrated with his conversations? if yes, how? :< Nov 11 11:34:04 slonopotamus, ping Nov 11 11:39:03 ruskie, ping Nov 11 11:45:37 that's so MEH Nov 11 11:52:55 ZogG: pong Nov 11 11:53:09 slonopotamus sup. serched for you on gentoo-ru Nov 11 11:55:07 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1121781#post1121781 Nov 11 11:57:41 jonwil: looks like you don't want to do anything :-/ Nov 11 11:58:05 no, there its lots on my todo list Nov 11 11:58:16 Just a whole bunch of stuff I have already ruled out as "too hard" Nov 11 12:15:39 so anyone got anything I should work on"? Nov 11 12:16:25 Might do the virtual keyboard stuff given the demand for it Nov 11 12:21:38 * SpeedEvil mehs that he can't buy jonwil nice disssasemblers. Nov 11 12:22:13 jonwil, with cssu having a lot of the features in portrait mode these days, the portrait vkb would be pretty cool. Nov 11 12:23:25 how can I open conversion backup on my system . it seems store in .db files Nov 11 12:23:26 ok, I have decided to clone gen_vkb and make it work properly for Fremantle (it doesn't look that hard) as well as fixing up the decode_vkb script to handle everything in Fremantle Nov 11 12:23:42 Would that include doing BT properly? Nov 11 12:23:48 Or is that a seperate stack Nov 11 12:24:01 bluetooth is not part of the virtual keyboard Nov 11 12:24:08 and I already said no to anything bluetooth Nov 11 12:24:39 especially since I own precisely ZERO bluetooth devices Nov 11 12:25:32 once i finish gen_fkb and decode_fkb, I will publish it along with my header file for libimlayout Nov 11 12:25:36 as a package Nov 11 12:26:06 K. Nov 11 12:26:39 actually, I will probably write my own decode_vkb because the current decode_vkb is written in (UGH) Perl. Nov 11 12:26:50 a language I know NOTHING about Nov 11 12:29:55 I know Perl. I can hack it faster than you ... can Nov 11 13:52:19 merlin1991: sorry to disturb you again, could you try to compile mupdf please? It has some useful cli features. http://mupdf.com// Nov 11 14:09:32 ~jrtools Nov 11 14:09:33 rumour has it, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Nov 11 14:16:14 ~boobies Nov 11 14:16:16 boobies are always fun to play with, or very big Nov 11 14:33:58 X-Fade: ping Nov 11 14:35:19 merlin1991: ping Nov 11 14:35:27 :) Nov 11 14:35:53 LaoLang_cool: isn't the internal pdf reader enough? Nov 11 14:36:30 merlin1991: mupdf can export pdf to txt file, and it has nice vi style keybinding Nov 11 14:37:21 I'll see what I can do Nov 11 14:37:34 merlin1991: thank you! Nov 11 15:05:29 Anyone using irreco or sth related to lirc? Nov 11 15:05:48 i got my irreco not working with the same code… Nov 11 15:08:18 ppl, how to repair apt? cannot neither reinstall samba again, neither deinstall it. -- Something with post-install scripts in samba .deb package Nov 11 15:09:41 valerius: pastebin the errors? Nov 11 15:11:37 I cannot install nothing using apt-get, but dpkg and package manager works Nov 11 15:11:38 ok, a minute... Nov 11 15:12:45 apt-get -f install or remove apt lock? Nov 11 15:20:21 medicalwei -f won't help Nov 11 15:21:52 medicalwei which lock? I don't see any in /var/lock Nov 11 15:23:43 btw, how to copy text from xterm? copy by stylus doesn't work, but scrolling instead Nov 11 15:25:12 valerius: did you installed ssh? Nov 11 15:25:54 deleted /var/lib/apt/lists/lock but no effect Nov 11 15:26:09 medicalwei yes, it is installed Nov 11 15:26:26 but no wifi now Nov 11 15:26:47 Hmm… Nov 11 15:28:06 An error: package samba needs to be reinstalled but cannot find package for it Nov 11 15:28:40 dpkg -P samba # to purge samba? Nov 11 15:28:42 when trying apt-get install/remove something Nov 11 15:29:30 strange, samba is broken but I installed it before somehow and it even worked for me... Nov 11 15:31:09 medicalwei "Package is in a very bad inconsistent state, you need to reinstall it before attempting to remove it" Nov 11 15:31:33 this is when I tried to purge it Nov 11 15:31:43 valerius: grab it manually? Nov 11 15:32:11 valerius: http://maemo.org/packages/view/samba/ Nov 11 15:32:25 unpack manually by midnight commander? Nov 11 15:32:43 No. after downloading it, dpkg -i Nov 11 15:34:13 medicalwei ok, thanks... Nov 11 15:36:01 * medicalwei wonders anyone using lirc? Nov 11 15:49:02 ok. i got the problem why my tv won't accept the ir signal. Nov 11 15:49:21 the signal needs to be repeated…orz Nov 11 15:51:19 medicalwei cannot install -- some post-removal script returned bad status -- sh script aborted abnormally Nov 11 15:51:41 valerius: O_O; Nov 11 15:52:05 don't know why post-removal but not post install Nov 11 15:52:14 * medicalwei either Nov 11 15:53:05 the package samba_3.4.3_maemo2_armel.deb is broken Nov 11 15:53:46 I think, it tries to remove something before installing itself Nov 11 15:59:10 post-rm script errors are very not fun Nov 11 15:59:27 which one was it? Nov 11 16:03:50 /bin/sh illegal option - Nov 11 16:04:10 dpkg: error while cleaning up Nov 11 16:05:22 I meant which script Nov 11 16:05:26 subprocess post-removal script returned error exit status 2 Nov 11 16:05:46 I could try to help you fix it, if you pastebin the whole script somewhere Nov 11 16:06:37 where to take the script? can I somehow extract it using dpkg? Nov 11 16:07:44 dpkg output should have told you it was running the post-remove script for package X Nov 11 16:07:52 you can find the script in /var/lib/dpkg/info/X.postrm Nov 11 16:08:26 and silly question: how can I pastebin from xterm? copying with stylus doesn't work Nov 11 16:08:29 the error itself makes it seem as if the script is expecting bash to be /bin/sh, or something like that -- and gets a busybox shell instead Nov 11 16:08:46 can you ssh in? Nov 11 16:08:54 ehlo all Nov 11 16:09:04 or just tell me the name of the package and its version Nov 11 16:09:13 no, I have no wifi now Nov 11 16:09:54 but I can from the device itself -- I have midnight commander installed Nov 11 16:10:04 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/11/apple_sim_patent/ <-- heh Nov 11 16:15:50 mgedmin I found it, now need to pastebin Nov 11 16:17:20 having major problems with my n900. when i plug into my pc i see the device but no folders. i've copied a few files to the device, unplugged it and went into the file manager, but don't have any folders or the newly copied files. wtf??? Nov 11 16:17:45 but could someone help with hotkeys? -- how can I do "Ctrl-Ins/Shift-Ins" on N900? Nov 11 16:18:29 gn00b maybe, the FS is not mounted? Nov 11 16:19:59 where is partition of / ? there is only 3 partitions.one for MyDocs,one for /home and another one is swap.where is root? Nov 11 16:20:41 on NAND Nov 11 16:20:48 /dev/mtd5 Nov 11 16:20:49 you can't see / when you plug the device in - this is the 'MyDocs' device Nov 11 16:21:03 maybe, he means the microSD card? Nov 11 16:21:19 no microsd Nov 11 16:22:33 gn00b so, probably, your MyDocs are busy and not mounted on PC Nov 11 16:22:41 so is it possible to mount root when im using usb mass storage mode in backup menu? kuz there is no such thing to mount? Nov 11 16:23:18 afaik, no. Nov 11 16:23:27 as it isn't a block device etc. Nov 11 16:23:37 ok. my sister just told me what she did. she formated with linux, couldn't see any files on the device then formatted with windows and still couldn't see anything. Nov 11 16:23:56 doing fsck now Nov 11 16:24:07 you will never see anything other than the mydocs partition when you plug it in to USB. Nov 11 16:24:21 Oh Nov 11 16:24:26 gn00b in fat32 or ext2 :) Nov 11 16:24:27 what is NAND :-D Nov 11 16:24:29 'backup menu' - I don't know what that is. Nov 11 16:24:31 i got it. thanks. maybe i should've asked her what she did first Nov 11 16:25:44 speedevil: it helps to make a backup of whole storage.and has an option to access the storage of the cellphone Nov 11 16:26:44 ppl, sorry for dumb question, but how to copy/paste from the keyboard? I ask because no Ins key on the keyboard Nov 11 16:26:53 also there is a kind of kernel in meego's website which gives u some advanced options to develop ur n900 Nov 11 16:27:06 ctrl-c / ctrl-v may work Nov 11 16:27:45 speedevil thx, will try.. Nov 11 16:29:32 speedevil but how to copy paste in xtetrm? trying to open file in mc but ctrl-c closes the file Nov 11 16:29:44 that won't work then Nov 11 16:29:58 k. another question. is it possible to make image gallery to show images in different categories? Nov 11 16:29:58 you need to pop up the titlebar, and then click copy/paste Nov 11 16:30:07 stylus won't copy too but scrolls Nov 11 16:31:00 ah, it seems I found it! -- copy option in virtual keyboard :) Nov 11 16:31:02 Click the arrow to bring up the stylus Nov 11 16:31:20 then copy appears in the menu Nov 11 16:31:42 speedevil on titlebar there is only 'paste' option, no 'copy' Nov 11 16:32:09 you need to select something Nov 11 16:32:31 the arrow at the bottom left Nov 11 16:32:38 then select, then copy appears Nov 11 16:34:11 Where is an arrow? in xterm window? -- I see none.. Nov 11 16:37:21 speedevil found arrow ;) Strange, when mc is started, no arrow but in plain xterm or vi, it is present :) Nov 11 16:44:04 mgedmin this is my postremove script: http://pastebin.com/uAHMw1wx don't see anything criminal, only ";;" in one 'case' variant and none in other. Ldconfig works too on my n900 Nov 11 16:47:59 the first line doesn't start with #, why? Nov 11 16:49:18 and which package is this? Nov 11 16:51:32 mgedmin It starts from #! /bin/sh Nov 11 16:52:04 I did not copied the first character, sorry Nov 11 16:52:52 mgedmin it is samba_3.4.3_maemo2_armel.deb Nov 11 16:53:00 so a copy/paste error then Nov 11 16:53:09 the newest one Nov 11 16:53:13 yes Nov 11 16:53:32 you said this happened during install time? Nov 11 16:53:44 during install time dpkg runs the postrm script of the PREVIOUS version Nov 11 16:54:12 then I get fuzzy -- IIRC it maybe runs the new postrm if the previous one fails? Nov 11 16:54:41 it's documented somewhere in the Debian Policy Manual Nov 11 16:54:44 let me look it up Nov 11 16:54:58 So, I must to correct the previous one? Nov 11 16:56:19 http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-maintainerscripts.html says new-postrm is run with 'upgrade-failed' if old-postrm fails during upgrade Nov 11 16:57:09 if new-postrm doesn't fail, upgrade continues Nov 11 16:58:29 but it seems, the old one returns sucessfully -- I see no error when running ./apt.postrm remove Nov 11 16:59:33 what? DON'T DO THAT! Nov 11 16:59:44 why apt? you're trying to install *samba*, not *apt* Nov 11 16:59:44 why? Nov 11 17:00:04 if you fsck up apt, you'll end up with a broken system and most likely need to reflash Nov 11 17:00:52 I thought, it is samba post-removal script Nov 11 17:01:19 no, samba postrm script is named, unsurprisingly, sampa.postrm Nov 11 17:01:22 *samba Nov 11 17:01:42 but I thought we were talking about a prerm? Nov 11 17:01:50 I'm sorry, I mixed up the terms above Nov 11 17:02:05 luckily, apt.postrm remove doesn't do anything bad Nov 11 17:02:47 yes, I checked -- my apt is ok :) Nov 11 17:03:13 so, /var/lib/dpkg/info/samba.postrm Nov 11 17:03:43 So, this is not a samba post-removal script. -- Will try searching again Nov 11 17:06:08 * mgedmin downloads samba_3.4.3-maemo2_armel.deb from maemo.org Nov 11 17:06:21 can't find anything suspicious in the postrm script... Nov 11 17:06:34 ah! DOS line endings! Nov 11 17:06:37 the maintainer fucked up Nov 11 17:07:18 pastebin is useless for noticing something like that Nov 11 17:09:51 mgedmin Found samba postrm script. It appears that the script has DOS EOLN markers (Ctrl-M throughout the file) Nov 11 17:10:43 yes Nov 11 17:10:57 does mcedit show them as ^Ms, I wonder? Nov 11 17:11:08 iirc no Nov 11 17:11:46 oh, it does! nice! Nov 11 17:12:09 so you can fix them Nov 11 17:12:48 use dos2unix or whatever it is to make the changes Nov 11 17:13:00 * valerius deleted carriage reurns from the script Nov 11 17:13:27 dos2unix FTW! :D Nov 11 17:13:28 manually, in mc text editor ;). Nov 11 17:13:39 :)) Nov 11 17:16:30 I don't think maemo5 comes with dos2unix :) Nov 11 17:17:32 is this bug known to the people who uploaded samba to maemo extras, I wonder? Nov 11 17:17:49 if it only shows up when you try to remove or upgrade samba, people might not notice Nov 11 17:20:09 mgedmin ./samba.postrm remove works but dpkg -P samba still won't work ;( Nov 11 17:20:21 what's the error? Nov 11 17:20:38 hi all Nov 11 17:20:56 mgedmin when I trying to install/ remove anything, not only smba Nov 11 17:21:15 valerius, run dpkg --configure -a Nov 11 17:21:19 does someone here know what is the problem here : https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/strace_4.5.20-2.3maemo0/summary.log ??? Nov 11 17:22:15 and then maybe apt-get install -f Nov 11 17:22:59 Creteil, O.o? I think only X-Fade can figure that out Nov 11 17:23:04 The same error "the package is in very bad inconsistent state..." Nov 11 17:23:58 oh, right, "you need to reinstall before attempting to continue" Nov 11 17:23:59 mhm Nov 11 17:24:06 can you apt-get install --reinstall samba? Nov 11 17:24:12 or does that also fail? Nov 11 17:24:54 oh I see you are going to try to install samba probably on the device ... Nov 11 17:25:08 I would attempt this: fix DOS line endings of all files named samba.* in /var/lib/dpkg/info, then apt-get install --reinstall samba, then fix all files _again_ (because reinstall will restore the broken ones), then apt-get remove --purge samba Nov 11 17:25:12 this package just don't install properly Nov 11 17:25:24 DocScrutinizer: thanks for the tip; good to know that i don't need to disassemble it but do I really need to remove the 2 torx screws to remove the keyboard frame? the Nokia service manual says that you should not reuse the torx screws and I don't have spare ones Nov 11 17:25:28 of course --reinstall will probably fail with the same error.... Nov 11 17:25:39 mgedmin, this is not the only problem of the package ... Nov 11 17:25:59 mgedmin, already do that but that doesn't fix the bad installation at all ... Nov 11 17:26:23 dpkg has a database where it has recorded that the package is Badly Broken(TM), because of the failed postrm script Nov 11 17:27:10 to unwedge the database you need to install a fixed version of samba Nov 11 17:27:14 mgedmin, yes I know that, but even after fixing cr/lf there another troubles in the postrm script itselft Nov 11 17:27:21 hm, I don't have a fremantle target in my scratchbox Nov 11 17:27:54 s/itselft/itself/ Nov 11 17:27:54 Creteil meant: mgedmin, yes I know that, but even after fixing cr/lf there another troubles in the postrm script itself Nov 11 17:28:08 there's always the big hammer solution: backup, reflash, don't try to install samba Nov 11 17:28:32 Creteil, like what? Nov 11 17:28:41 mgedmin, I have successfully removed the package after tweaking ... Nov 11 17:29:17 tell valerius about your tweaks then! Nov 11 17:29:22 mgedmin, don't remember it substitution with sed IIRC ... Nov 11 17:29:32 I don't see anything obviously wrong in the script Nov 11 17:29:36 sed is not used Nov 11 17:29:41 or awk Nov 11 17:29:46 maybe you're talking about postinst, not postrm? Nov 11 17:29:46 or something else Nov 11 17:29:53 oh yes Nov 11 17:29:57 postinst Nov 11 17:29:59 sorry Nov 11 17:30:13 oh yes, sed -e "s/^[[:space:]]...." Nov 11 17:30:48 so, even after fixing cr/lf, then the postinst doesn't end properly with an error leaving the package in a bad step Nov 11 17:30:58 mgedmin, yes this is it !!! Nov 11 17:31:03 but you can at least remove it, I think Nov 11 17:31:08 while if postrm fails... Nov 11 17:31:27 mgedmin, what does exactly apt-get remove report ? Nov 11 17:31:41 talk to valerius Nov 11 17:31:49 I haven't ever tried to install samba on my n900 Nov 11 17:31:50 valerius, what does exactly apt-get remove report ? Nov 11 17:32:23 if I understand it correctly, "Package is in a very bad inconsistent state, you need to reinstall it before attempting to remove it" Nov 11 17:32:42 mgedmin "The package needs to be reinstalled but can' ffind an archive for it". Though, I have samba package in /var/cache/apt/archive Nov 11 17:32:43 anyhow, someone to explain what is the problem with builder reporting an error like : https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/strace_4.5.20-2.3maemo0/summary.log Nov 11 17:33:18 valerius, dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archive/samba....deb? Nov 11 17:33:35 this'll fail in postinst Nov 11 17:33:53 but after that you ought to be able to (1) manually fix postrm again with mcedit, and then (2) apt-get remove samba Nov 11 17:34:13 as far as I remember, dpkg deals better with half-installed packages, and refuses to deal with half-removed ones Nov 11 17:34:22 creteil "The package needs to be reinstalled but cannot find an archive for it" Nov 11 17:34:25 so dpkg -i will improve the situation a bit Nov 11 17:34:53 valerius, please provide more verbose messages !! Nov 11 17:35:03 valerius, use pastebin Nov 11 17:36:34 so I got an iPhone Nov 11 17:36:42 and I fucked up the software in less than 2 hours Nov 11 17:36:44 do I win a trophy? Nov 11 17:36:56 MohammadAG, sure !!! Nov 11 17:36:59 :-) Nov 11 17:37:02 now it shows the Connect to iTunes logo when I press the power button Nov 11 17:37:22 Creteil more verbose? ok.. Nov 11 17:41:12 valerius, what does 'ls /var/lib/dpkg/info/samba*' output ? Nov 11 17:42:33 Creteil http://pastebin.com/1QSkcmLx Nov 11 17:42:50 Not too verbose, though Nov 11 17:43:20 valerius, what does 'ls /var/lib/dpkg/info/samba*' output ? Nov 11 17:44:47 valerius, ok let me install the package by myself on the device, then I fail back to the same situation as you, then I can provide you the right things to do to remove it ... Nov 11 17:47:23 Creteil http://pastebin.com/fgB4uXjh Nov 11 17:47:59 Creteil ok, thanks! Nov 11 17:48:00 valerius, wait 1 I have installed the samba package Nov 11 18:13:16 valerius, here ? Nov 11 18:13:50 yep Nov 11 18:14:01 ok Nov 11 18:14:03 so Nov 11 18:14:05 hehehehe Nov 11 18:15:30 Creteil You rebuillt the package? So, it is broken not only with post/pre-install scripts? Nov 11 18:16:53 valeriusN, no Nov 11 18:17:06 Creteil I am not sure if the scripts could be extracted, corrected and copied inside the package again? Nov 11 18:17:16 Just created a script to correctly deinstall samba ... Nov 11 18:17:30 ah Nov 11 18:17:32 but before Nov 11 18:17:51 what does 'ls /var/cache/apt/archives/libwbclient0_3.4.3-maemo2_armel.deb /var/cache/apt/archives/samba_3.4.3-maemo2_armel.deb /var/cache/apt/archives/samba-common_3.4.3-maemo2_all.deb /var/cache/apt/archives/update-inetd_4.31_all.deb' output (you can paste here in the channel) Nov 11 18:18:36 valeriusN, ssh the device to be able to copy paste here quickly ... Nov 11 18:19:59 Creteil when I got problems with samba, I removed all packages it depends, but could not remove samba itself. So, I have libwbclient0 and update-inetd and samba-common removed now Nov 11 18:20:46 no, cannot ssh because I haven't wifi available now Nov 11 18:20:54 ok so let me prepare a tarball with all you need to remove properly ... Nov 11 18:21:28 valeriusN you could pastebin if you've got 3G Nov 11 18:21:43 valeriusN, how did you removed properly samba-common ? Nov 11 18:21:55 HyperSnyper yes, I'll try Nov 11 18:22:09 valeriusN, on my side I have to tweak to remove samba-common & samba packages ... Nov 11 18:24:47 valeriusN, how did you removed properly samba-common ? Nov 11 18:24:49 valeriusN, on my side I have to tweak to remove samba-common & samba packages ... Nov 11 18:26:38 Creteil I have three packages from this list in /var/cache/apt/archives: samba_3.4.3-maemo2_armel.deb samba-common_3.4.3-maemo2_all.deb update-inetd_4.31_all.deb Nov 11 18:26:54 Creteil so, samba-common is installed Nov 11 18:27:39 are you able to install 'libwbclient0' with apt-get install libwbclient0 Nov 11 18:28:48 Creteil ah, libwbclient0_3.4.3-maemo2_armel.deb is there too... Nov 11 18:28:55 tsss Nov 11 18:29:21 well, so copy paste the script I'm gona put on pastebin and run it !!! Nov 11 18:29:41 wait one I just check on my side it run properly ... Nov 11 18:29:47 Creteil ok Nov 11 18:37:02 my fm transmitter is not working Nov 11 18:37:21 is there a problem with advanced kernel and fmtx? Nov 11 18:38:18 valeriusN, on your device as 'root' : Nov 11 18:38:20 wget http://bigbob.fun.free.fr/maemo/Uninstall-broken-samba-on-maemo Nov 11 18:38:22 chmo +x Uninstall-broken-samba-on-maemo Nov 11 18:38:24 ./Uninstall-broken-samba-on-maemo Nov 11 18:43:47 How do I tell modest to check my email automatically or am I just impatient? Nov 11 18:44:01 I know how I can tell it manually to check it. Nov 11 18:44:25 (or is there another, better client?) Nov 11 18:44:38 there isn't a setting somewhere in modest? Nov 11 18:45:07 valeriusN, is it ok ? Nov 11 18:45:23 there is rly. Settings.. at the bottomw Nov 11 18:45:42 What is mecenfiadvsetupofflinesync? Nov 11 18:46:21 Sicelo: is that in the modest application at account setup or under the settings icon? Nov 11 18:46:54 modest, tap 'title bar' > Settings Nov 11 18:48:44 Creteil No, unfortunately, no. -- "E: The package samba needs to be reinstalled, but I can't find an archive for it" Nov 11 18:48:55 as for other app, i use mutt, there's claws mail too.. and others Nov 11 18:49:19 damned Nov 11 18:49:50 my script reinstall the packages needed from /var/cache/apt/archive !!! Nov 11 18:50:14 valeriusN, have you run my script ? Nov 11 18:50:37 Creteil yes, they are there, in the apt cache Nov 11 18:50:42 valeriusN, have you run my script ? Nov 11 18:50:43 valeriusN, have you run my script ? Nov 11 18:50:45 valeriusN, have you run my script ? Nov 11 18:51:45 valeriusN, on your device as 'root' : Nov 11 18:51:47 wget http://bigbob.fun.free.fr/maemo/Uninstall-broken-samba-on-maemo Nov 11 18:51:49 chmod +x Uninstall-broken-samba-on-maemo Nov 11 18:51:50 ./Uninstall-broken-samba-on-maemo Nov 11 18:53:03 valeriusN, I have made a script to ease the proper deinstallation of the samba packages and dependencies ... Nov 11 18:53:05 Creteil yes, I run it. It installed libwbclient0, copied a trivial script over pre/post scripts and tried to remove all packages, and I have this error in the end Nov 11 18:53:06 yes, as root Nov 11 18:53:14 yes, I made it executable Nov 11 18:53:33 Sicelo: but is claws integrated in any way? Modest is integrated into the system at least. Nov 11 18:53:48 yes, I run the script and it fails in the end Nov 11 18:54:00 E.g. can you tell claws to only update when connected via method X, Y, or Z? Nov 11 18:55:05 what does 'dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archives/libwbclient0_3.4.3-maemo2_armel.deb /var/cache/apt/archives/samba_3.4.3-maemo2_armel.deb /var/cache/apt/archives/samba-common_3.4.3-maemo2_all.deb /var/cache/apt/archives/update-inetd_4.31_all.deb 2>/dev/null' Nov 11 18:55:07 Please use pastebin Nov 11 18:55:30 remove the last part '2>/dev/null' Nov 11 18:55:51 what does 'dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archives/libwbclient0_3.4.3-maemo2_armel.deb /var/cache/apt/archives/samba_3.4.3-maemo2_armel.deb /var/cache/apt/archives/samba-common_3.4.3-maemo2_all.deb /var/cache/apt/archives/update-inetd_4.31_all.deb' Nov 11 18:55:52 Please use pastebin Nov 11 18:57:12 heh, rly, afaik nothing else is integrated. guess you're stuck with modes then. cssu testing might have an improved modest Nov 11 18:57:36 valeriusN, is there a way you explain how you fail down to this situation ? Nov 11 18:58:02 Does Android have just as bad software? Nov 11 18:58:20 Well, that's a bit harsh. Nov 11 18:58:24 valeriusN, on my side I have break the uninstall, but just can't have the error you have (E: The package samba needs to be reinstalled, but I can't find an archive for it) ... Nov 11 18:58:29 Most of N900 is great. Nov 11 18:58:43 But lots of stuff could use improvement. Nov 11 18:58:59 Sturgeon's law Nov 11 18:59:21 i can't comment on android. zero interest. i just heard android has many apps .. same apps though :P Nov 11 19:00:02 Sicelo: well, it also has 'whatsapp', which apparently the whole world uses. Nov 11 19:00:19 not me ;) Nov 11 19:00:46 i think Mohammad was working on it... i cold be mistaken Nov 11 19:01:21 Why is everyone so opposed to Android here? Nov 11 19:01:42 why are you being offtopic? Nov 11 19:02:02 There is nothing offtopic about it. Nov 11 19:02:23 If you don't look to what the competition is doing you become obsolete. Nov 11 19:02:30 since when did N900 have android in it by default apart from nitdroid Nov 11 19:02:45 maemo is obsolete Nov 11 19:03:08 psycho_oreos: apparently lots of users disagree. Nov 11 19:03:16 i'm not opposed. just not interested Nov 11 19:03:26 rly, maybe because I choose to buy a N900 running maemo not android and I do this choice comparing the 2 oses and finally choose maemo ... Nov 11 19:04:02 the problem i have with android is that it has apps Nov 11 19:04:05 not programs Nov 11 19:04:11 Creteil: I wanted to be able to ssh into my phone, which I believed was impossible on an Android. Nov 11 19:04:21 nice one kerio ;) Nov 11 19:04:42 If you root your android you do get a shell, right? Nov 11 19:04:42 kerio, +1 Nov 11 19:04:44 lol Nov 11 19:04:55 rly, people disagree on which point? maemo being obsolete? well yes if you still have the actual hardware you can still say there's community support. As for the android point I couldn't really care less about android Nov 11 19:05:00 rly: even an iphone does that Nov 11 19:06:28 valeriusN, valerius, no more message from you, does I need to forget your problem ? Nov 11 19:07:53 What's so much better about Maemo than Android? Nov 11 19:08:04 Creteil just a moment... -- I am copy/pasting yet... Nov 11 19:08:11 rly: X11 Nov 11 19:09:24 rly: Android tends to have locked bootloaders too Nov 11 19:09:32 android runs on dalvik vm, therefore less direct access to raw hardware Nov 11 19:09:47 I expect my next device to ship with Android, but have a known way to install my own kernel Nov 11 19:09:55 so I can install/use Gentoo and KDE Nov 11 19:13:01 KDE on a mobile device? Nov 11 19:13:13 Creteil http://pastebin.com/d1qKn7A5 It complains about other packages too. I made apt-get install -f but it also has something with samba-common and mplayers Nov 11 19:13:52 kerio: so, you run big complicated applications on some server and use X11 to see them on your phone? Nov 11 19:14:13 rly: no, so the concept of "window" is not horrendously broken Nov 11 19:14:22 It has something about /usr/share/doc/mplayer which does not exist Nov 11 19:14:22 only some stuff like modal dialogs work slightly differently Nov 11 19:14:47 rly: why not? Nov 11 19:14:53 kerio: how is it horrendously broken? Nov 11 19:15:00 rly: N900 isn't a phone, and Maemo isn't a phone OS Nov 11 19:15:10 huh... for instance, there are no windows in android Nov 11 19:15:11 luke-jr: on my desktop, on Squeeze, it is already way too unstable for me. Nov 11 19:15:34 rly: wtf is unstable? Nov 11 19:15:37 besides Konqueror :/ Nov 11 19:15:56 kerio: so, you mean that every application has to be rewritten for Android and you see that as a disadvantage? Nov 11 19:16:08 yeah, for instance Nov 11 19:16:25 or the fact that some applications can open multiple windows Nov 11 19:16:38 Creteil ah, Purged mplayer and samba-common, successfully Nov 11 19:16:48 kerio: which application can open muliple windows on the N900, btw? Nov 11 19:17:01 valerius, my fiw seem to have worked properly !!! now you have another troubles :# Nov 11 19:17:02 You might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these: Nov 11 19:17:04 The following packages have unmet dependencies: Nov 11 19:17:04 every program can Nov 11 19:17:05 freoffice: Depends: freoffice-feedback-plugin but it is not installable Nov 11 19:17:07 libsoprano4: Depends: soprano-daemon (= 2.5.2-maemo0) but it is not installable Nov 11 19:17:08 E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution). Nov 11 19:17:10 Nokia-N900:/home/user# Nov 11 19:17:14 rly: for instance, abiword Nov 11 19:17:14 kerio: yes, but which one does? Nov 11 19:17:17 s/fiw/fix/ Nov 11 19:17:18 kerio: ok Nov 11 19:17:26 or xchat Nov 11 19:17:54 the terminal does too Nov 11 19:17:57 rly: terminal Nov 11 19:18:27 rly: the n900 is closer to a netbook than a smartphone Nov 11 19:18:55 valeriusN, for the new problem try : Nov 11 19:18:56 apt-get remove --purge freoffice libsoprano4 Nov 11 19:19:38 valeriusN, after that I think you don't have more error message about packages installed ... Nov 11 19:20:26 Creteil Fixed! Yes, I first did apt-get install -f, then dpkg -P samba-common, dpkg -P mplayer, then apt-get install -f, then dpkg --configure -a, and the problem fixed! (that's after I run your script) Nov 11 19:20:57 Creteil so, BIG thanks! Nov 11 19:20:59 rly: i really want an openpandora :( Nov 11 19:21:02 :-) Nov 11 19:21:13 valeriusN, No problem ... Nov 11 19:21:15 kerio: that's the video game emulator? Nov 11 19:21:23 anyhow, someone to explain what is the problem with builder reporting an error like : https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/strace_4.5.20-2.3maemo0/summary.log Nov 11 19:21:39 The one which they had trouble manufacturing, IIRC. Nov 11 19:23:02 what instability u have with debian? Nov 11 19:23:28 rly: yeah Nov 11 19:23:36 but it's not only for games :) Nov 11 19:23:39 Sicelo: only with KDE. I don't really remember. Nov 11 19:23:44 i have same (6.0.1), gnome, running on a P2, 350MHz, 640MB ram. Nov 11 19:23:59 my N900 is actually more powerful than my system ;) Nov 11 19:24:05 Sicelo: I can't stop thinking 'OMG, how could they ever have released this?'. Nov 11 19:24:41 Sicelo: I am going to upgrade to 8GB of RAM :) Nov 11 19:24:58 i want a n900 with 8gb of ram :( Nov 11 19:25:01 Because sadly, 4GB is too little. Nov 11 19:25:14 the n900 would be a pretty beefy machine, if not for the stupid amount of ram Nov 11 19:25:24 Not for Debian, but for the terrible complicated stuff that I ask of my machine. Nov 11 19:25:45 such as.. Nov 11 19:25:53 minecraft! Nov 11 19:25:58 I can't wait until I have an Exabyte of RAM. Nov 11 19:27:30 Sicelo: I think for VMs 16GB would be more comfortable, really, but even without a VM compilation can take up a large amount of RAM. Nov 11 19:28:30 kerio: pretty beefy is a bit relative Nov 11 19:29:00 DocScrutinizer: cpu is worth jack shit Nov 11 19:29:12 The machine powering Watson is pretty beefy. Nov 11 19:29:19 machineS Nov 11 19:29:36 But still pretty smallish compared to the human brain. Nov 11 19:29:57 meh, perhaps the brain is just really, really optimized Nov 11 19:30:23 The brain evolved in our universe. Nov 11 19:30:31 Software has to work in all universes. Nov 11 19:30:40 huh... what? Nov 11 19:30:54 (which is another way of saying that it is optimized) Nov 11 19:31:33 It is likely that the brain encodes some invariants which are only true in our natural habitat. Nov 11 19:31:50 Or which are good default for the first few days/years of our lives. Nov 11 19:31:56 defaults* Nov 11 19:32:40 If you have just a machine, but it doesn't have any bias, then it doesn't do anything. Nov 11 19:33:34 Now, that's offtopic ;) Nov 11 19:34:38 aiui nothing is off-topic unless somebody complains, or it's getting in the way of 'assistance' Nov 11 19:35:23 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1122022#post1122022 Nov 11 19:37:20 jonwil, I hate to say this but isn't that is what ukeyboard editor is for? Nov 11 19:37:35 well at least to change the vkb bindings I suppose Nov 11 19:37:57 This is different in that its more like the "official" way (i.e. it does it like the way Nokia does) Nov 11 19:38:13 plus ukeyboard doesnt have a way to decompile existing vkb files AFAIK Nov 11 19:38:23 ahh Nov 11 19:39:04 though I do recall it just creates a new one and it was recommended that you create one with a completely different name, probably to prevent overwriting Nov 11 19:39:40 nevertheless I guess editing vkb would be interesting. Now it needs is for some developer to maybe make vkb more flexible/user-friendly on N900 ;) Nov 11 19:40:01 * psycho_oreos thinks Macer would've probably liked this Nov 11 19:52:22 I miss all kinds of icons in Abiword. Do you also have that? Nov 11 19:52:38 Basicaly 3 out of 6 icons at the bottom or something like that. Nov 11 19:53:02 yeah. i do Nov 11 19:54:19 Why do people upload such crap? Nov 11 20:22:44 How do I configure in xchat that I don't want to see it when people join the channel? Nov 11 20:23:09 Using xchat on a phone is fairly bad ass, btw ;) Nov 11 20:27:55 Never mind. Nov 11 20:28:14 /chanopt something.. Nov 11 20:28:38 Never mind means I already found the solution, in case that wasn't clear. Nov 11 20:29:03 It's not clear because the solution isn't visible :) Nov 11 20:29:36 Should I say no need to answer next time? Nov 11 20:29:45 /set irc_conf_mode 1 does it. Nov 11 20:30:36 I don't think it gets any more geeky than this. Nov 11 20:31:13 Or, perhaps I could play some Life Role Playing game while being on IRC while holding a sword in my other hand. Nov 11 20:31:28 there's that nethack gui Nov 11 20:31:38 It's not really my style, though. Nov 11 20:31:55 I don't get what people find fun about nethack. Nov 11 20:32:28 Perhaps you need a physical friend that is enthusiastic about it to explain it, because I just saw a bunch of ascii art with some lame texts. Nov 11 20:32:46 I think I played it for like 15 minutes or so. Nov 11 20:33:05 that's a pretty good description of internet too Nov 11 20:33:07 try brogue! Nov 11 20:34:20 ShadowJK: nah. Via Internet you can connect to interesting people in almost real-time to perform business of any kind, etc. Nov 11 20:34:44 nethack has in-game stores! Nov 11 20:35:05 And also you'll find the ghosts of hte people who went before you and failed Nov 11 20:36:02 You know I just figured out that I don't actually need to hold the blue key above shift? ... Nov 11 20:36:11 That makes input a LOT easier :P Nov 11 20:38:31 shift too. both are 'sticky' Nov 11 20:38:38 Is there also a mobile IRC client, which travels from machine to machine? Nov 11 20:39:16 So, basically you would have it on machine X, then you say 'move to machine Y' and then you could continue your session there, etc. So, basically 'cloud-screen'. Nov 11 20:39:52 bouncer ;) Nov 11 20:40:10 no client i can think of Nov 11 20:40:39 Sicelo: what exactly is an irc bouncer? Nov 11 20:40:58 Sicelo: I run IRC occassionaly on a server and connect to it from multiple locations. Is that what you mean? Nov 11 20:41:21 * ShadowJK runs irssi on his server, and has irssi-proxy loaded in irssi, and connects to irssi with xchat through vpn. Seamless when N900 switches from wifi to edge and back, and also xchat on desktop connected to same thing Nov 11 20:42:55 ShadowJK: how do you connect to irssi with xchat through vpn (is that on your phone?)? What is 'edge' (3G)? Nov 11 20:43:15 edge is 2g Nov 11 20:43:23 2.5 Nov 11 20:43:32 I run openvpn on server and n900 Nov 11 20:44:23 rly: a boncer is basically as u described. advantage is that u can connect to it even from 'dumb' devices. even Nokia S40 devices, via jmIrc Nov 11 20:44:35 Can you also have two clients running at the same time with the same username? Nov 11 20:45:28 I am not really seeing the details of ShadowJK's setup, but it sounds like I should also have that. Nov 11 20:45:28 damn Nov 11 20:45:34 messed my phone up Nov 11 20:45:41 have to flash it Nov 11 20:45:55 backupmenu was fail lol Nov 11 20:46:32 is the cssu stable done? Nov 11 20:49:29 my host is ubuntu 11.04 I installed maemo-sdk5 completely .but I can't run it. I do this these steps according to http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation 1-run this http://codepad.org/EBV7qLCe and see this http://www.img4up.com/up2/87840202581001901719.png 2-after that run http://codepad.org/hFiGk1Bo and got errors => process 3475: arguments to dbus_connection_add_filter() were incorrect, assertion "connection != NULL" failed in Nov 11 20:49:49 what shall I do Nov 11 20:52:53 Sicelo: what is the difference between screen and a bouncer? Nov 11 20:53:09 I.e. screen irssi Nov 11 20:53:20 …. Nov 11 20:53:34 with screen, you have to use a CLI client :P Nov 11 20:53:56 So, a bouncer is something like a cache basically. Nov 11 20:54:05 Can multiple clients connect to it on the same time? Nov 11 20:54:10 at the same time* Nov 11 20:54:49 Or rather a multi-client relay. Nov 11 20:55:38 a bouncer is like an irc proxy Nov 11 20:55:54 the real irc server thinks it's a client Nov 11 20:56:01 the clients you use (on any OS) think it's a server Nov 11 20:56:19 it sits in between and passes messages through -- or buffers them when there are no clients Nov 11 20:56:50 rly: yes Nov 11 20:57:12 rly: Quassel is the ideal "bouncer" Nov 11 20:58:35 no solution? Nov 11 20:58:40 Eggdrop is a bouncer too, right? Nov 11 20:59:58 luke-jr: NOPE Nov 11 20:59:59 znc Nov 11 21:00:17 rly, nope Nov 11 21:01:05 Ok, I misremembered that, apparently it is a bot. Nov 11 21:01:34 * mgedmin uses znc Nov 11 21:01:47 (the only one I've tried; works; is not very user friendly) Nov 11 21:02:09 mgedmin: are you kidding Nov 11 21:02:18 no, I have very high standards Nov 11 21:02:32 mgedmin: /znc loadmod webmin then connect to znc with your browser Nov 11 21:03:02 first time I _hear_ about this /znc thing Nov 11 21:03:10 lolwut Nov 11 21:03:17 I thought you needed to /query *** or whatever and then do cryptic whatevers Nov 11 21:03:33 well, /znc is basically /msg *status Nov 11 21:03:38 except shorter Nov 11 21:04:00 also wtf, how did you detach channels? Nov 11 21:04:04 /znc help draws me an ascii table too wide for my xchat window Nov 11 21:04:10 detach? Nov 11 21:04:14 * mgedmin blinks Nov 11 21:04:14 mgedmin: so enlarge it :c Nov 11 21:04:31 this is a 1280x800 laptop, xchat is already maximized Nov 11 21:04:31 mgedmin: either /detach channel or /znc detach regexp Nov 11 21:04:43 I just join/leave channels in xchat like a normal person Nov 11 21:04:53 why leaving them Nov 11 21:04:55 D: Nov 11 21:05:00 stickychan+autoattach Nov 11 21:05:16 luke-jr: Quassel seems to be a client and bouncer in one. Nov 11 21:05:50 mgedmin: why are you using znc, if not for the extra stuff? Nov 11 21:06:14 because I need a bouncer, and znc is the first one I found that looked like a lazy user like me might be able to use Nov 11 21:06:19 yeah, znc isn't very friendly if you don't use it :\ Nov 11 21:07:37 I wonder why most networking (DNS servers, mail servers, webservers, etc.) stuff is so hard to configure. It seems that it is just job protection. Nov 11 21:08:02 rly: huh... it's as simple as possible Nov 11 21:08:13 shit's complicated, yo Nov 11 21:08:29 there's a lower limit to complexity Nov 11 21:08:41 For example Freenet configuration is a lot easier than setting up Postfix. Nov 11 21:08:42 doesn't mean every piece of software manages to reach it Nov 11 21:08:45 sometimes I wonder if any do Nov 11 21:08:57 Freenet is much more complicated in how it works. Nov 11 21:09:08 rly: do you realize the ungodly amount of stuff an MTA does? Nov 11 21:09:20 at one point I thought I'd simplify my life and use Cherokee instead of Apache on my home file server Nov 11 21:09:30 kerio: yes, I saw a presentation about that recently from Tokio. Nov 11 21:09:45 kerio: well, that was just about email and how horrible it was. Nov 11 21:09:54 regretted that after the first upgrade: old config syntax not supported, go do pointy-clicky adminy things in your browser again to set up everything from scratch Nov 11 21:10:11 I felt like an NT admin and promptly went back to Apache Nov 11 21:10:13 mgedmin: y u no use nginx :( Nov 11 21:10:22 Not supporting upgrades is epic failure. Nov 11 21:10:35 ngnix scares me Nov 11 21:10:58 Also a GUI should always compile to human readable configuration files or some database. Nov 11 21:11:14 Not to some proprietary binary blob. Nov 11 21:11:20 absolutely Nov 11 21:11:31 lololo gconf Nov 11 21:11:58 Most closed source programs actually produce encrypted blobs for exactly the opposite reason. Nov 11 21:12:10 there's a reason I avoid most closed source programs Nov 11 21:12:22 many reasons, really, but let's not go there Nov 11 21:12:48 mgedmin: I think everyone with an N900 that uses ssh on their phone agrees ;) Nov 11 21:13:16 If you have really good contracts, closed source can work, theoretically. Nov 11 21:13:29 not really Nov 11 21:13:54 we just don't hear about the failures :) Nov 11 21:13:57 Contracts like 'all bugs will be fixed within 24 hours', etc. Nov 11 21:14:12 is that possible? Nov 11 21:14:24 mgedmin: likely no software company would commit to that. Nov 11 21:14:28 there are bugs that take weeks to figure out the root cause Nov 11 21:14:32 "all bugs will be features within 24 hours" Nov 11 21:14:35 "we will react within 24 hours" is more likely Nov 11 21:14:44 "yep, that's a bug. we'll fix it. someday." Nov 11 21:14:51 always read the small print Nov 11 21:15:16 Making it open source introduces an element of competition. Nov 11 21:15:25 the good thing about oss is that the developers actually *use* their software Nov 11 21:15:57 kerio: yes, more than with commercial software. Nov 11 21:16:17 Take for example Photoshop. I doubt that the developers can actually produce art. Nov 11 21:16:49 It's a good program, sure, but I can imagine that something like Blender would produce something closed to what graphics people want in the end. Nov 11 21:16:56 closer* Nov 11 21:17:13 merlin1991: What's the url of the version of the cssu that you wanted tested? Nov 11 21:19:23 mgedmin: I think it is possible to arrange for source code licenses for some closed source software, btw. Nov 11 21:20:17 I am also allergic to dual licensed code, because often the 'open-source' part is only open-source according to its legal definition not according to its spirit. Nov 11 21:21:07 Linux drivers come to mind again. Nov 11 21:22:36 kerio: It depends. Nov 11 21:22:52 Blender is not necessarily a good example of an open source project: it was closed source initially Nov 11 21:23:01 although I don't know how much it changed since then Nov 11 21:23:09 kerio: People interested in a programming project are not always interested in using that project much. Nov 11 21:23:26 kerio: And can have strange, idealistic ideas about ways users 'should' use it. Nov 11 21:23:32 JOSM suffers from this. Nov 11 21:23:51 Java open-streetmap editor Nov 11 21:24:20 Actual budgets help shittons. Nov 11 21:24:45 'we think this is a better user interface' -> test with lots of tester/users -> y/n Nov 11 21:25:30 I think in reality the testing is not really needed. If you build something great, you don't need a tester to verify that for you. Nov 11 21:25:43 Yes you do. Nov 11 21:25:48 As you may be an ass-hat. Nov 11 21:25:54 For example Google Maps, if you see that, you don't think 'wow, that sucks'. Nov 11 21:25:56 Or do things wierdly. Nov 11 21:26:10 and only the worst ass-hats deny they might be some Nov 11 21:26:22 Sure. But google maps is a very limited case. Nov 11 21:26:33 It's a very, very simple UI, that doesn't do much. Nov 11 21:26:42 Now, go on to a map editor, for example. Nov 11 21:26:53 That is several orders of magnitude harder to get right. Nov 11 21:27:01 a CAD Nov 11 21:27:07 Indeed. Nov 11 21:27:11 CAE Nov 11 21:27:35 worse: simulators Nov 11 21:27:40 And then you've got to think about who you're optimising for. Nov 11 21:27:56 Optimising for both the casual and expert user is _HARD_. Nov 11 21:28:06 I think Emacs basically nailed it. Nov 11 21:28:18 There are some improvements to be made, of course. Nov 11 21:28:28 But the basic model that Emacs has is great. Nov 11 21:28:33 It is self-documenting, etc. Nov 11 21:29:17 For CAE (assuming that is engineering), I would expect to be able to say 'place a bolt of 3mm at coordinates (1,2,3)'. Nov 11 21:29:46 Or 'Place the cheapest bolt selected from webservice X instead of bolt id 10' Nov 11 21:30:02 Emacs makes aunties cry shit Nov 11 21:30:23 So, basically today, lots of NLP with some sub language and basically collect everything users have ever input in a database and then try to make sense of it. Nov 11 21:30:36 That's what Google does too in the queries they receive. Nov 11 21:30:54 You need to enforce rules. Nov 11 21:30:59 Unfortunately. Nov 11 21:31:09 There is some input stream and some desired behaviour in the mental model of the user and you want to map those automatically. Nov 11 21:31:11 does 3mm mean diameter or length Nov 11 21:31:22 SpeedEvil: it could ask that. Nov 11 21:31:36 Rigid rules are a thing of the past. Nov 11 21:31:49 Sure, you need rigid rules in _some_ API, but not the end-user interface. Nov 11 21:32:48 can u recommend some cli gtalk client ? Nov 11 21:33:13 kerio: ZNC has weirdness still Nov 11 21:33:15 * DocScrutinizer heads out screaming, as he already had the pleasure to work with those kind of "grammar free UI" Nov 11 21:34:27 **dust settles slowly** Nov 11 21:34:34 DocScrutinizer: Google is grammar free too and it works. Now, Wolfram Alpha doesn't. Nov 11 21:34:49 The difference is that the domain for Wolfram Alpha is too large. Nov 11 21:35:24 google is a very simple grep web frontend with jus one single command and purpose Nov 11 21:35:46 Now, it is a bit more than grep. Nov 11 21:35:55 not really Nov 11 21:36:06 That's like saying a scramjet is a paper plane that goes faster. Nov 11 21:36:23 meh Nov 11 21:36:52 I thought the page rank algorithm was fairly 'novel'. Nov 11 21:37:10 They don't use that anymore exactly in that form, though. Nov 11 21:37:19 what is the possible number of degrees of freedom in google's results/reaction? Nov 11 21:37:53 google is not grammar free, it has an implicit ultrasimple grammar/semantic Nov 11 21:38:10 DocScrutinizer: there are things like 'euros in yens'. Nov 11 21:38:15 that's why it works Nov 11 21:38:27 DocScrutinizer: yes, but I think CAE is also 'simple'. Nov 11 21:38:41 rly: Have you ever actually done any? Nov 11 21:38:46 Mathematics is too complex. Nov 11 21:38:53 SpeedEvil: I did some Autocad. Nov 11 21:39:20 SpeedEvil: and I read some tutorials about Solidworks. Nov 11 21:39:53 Solidworks is nothing else but the composition of primitive objects and composite objects with some finite number of simulations. Nov 11 21:40:21 But perhaps I missed something. Nov 11 21:43:02 SpeedEvil: why do you think it is too complex? Nov 11 21:45:11 Because of the many ways to specify position. Nov 11 21:45:32 Absolute, relative, angular, indexing in some manner to previous features. Nov 11 21:47:11 Ah, right, nowadays people use fractals to design buildings; I forgot ;) Nov 11 21:47:20 'place a bolt of 3mm at coordinates (1,2,3)'. -- that's a system where user fetches LART after 3 minutes, as you have *no idea* where to get (1,2,3) from Nov 11 21:48:35 Luser Attitude Readjustment Tool. heh Nov 11 21:49:00 also useful for litter Nov 11 21:49:02 Ok, so what about a CAVE then? Nov 11 21:49:11 aka crap Nov 11 21:49:43 I think some 3D virtual environments are pretty impressive these days. Nov 11 21:49:49 CAVE might actually be a system with future Nov 11 21:50:00 the concept Nov 11 21:50:25 of direct MMI without layers of abstraction in between Nov 11 21:50:55 DocScrutinizer: what is MMI? Nov 11 21:51:02 I.E user doing things "the natural way" Nov 11 21:51:10 Man Machine Interface Nov 11 21:52:02 Segway is so cool because it has a MMI that's natural to how you usually move your body Nov 11 21:52:32 DocScrutinizer: do you work for OpenMoko? Nov 11 21:52:44 I did when OM existed Nov 11 21:53:00 ~ DocScrutinizer Nov 11 21:53:01 methinks docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko Nov 11 21:53:25 Hmm, no wonder you know about everything there is to know about phones. Nov 11 21:53:33 Good for you. Nov 11 21:53:42 would maemo (or android) exist if openmoko hadn't existed? Nov 11 21:53:56 yes Nov 11 21:54:20 in a sense of cause result here's no link Nov 11 21:55:00 I was thinking more like idea/inspiration/proof of possibility/etc Nov 11 21:55:08 same Nov 11 21:55:09 The problem with Openmoko was that it wasn't obvious that you could actually get a working phone with working basics (navigation, sms, chat, email, phone). Nov 11 21:55:21 At least, that's how I perceived it. Nov 11 21:55:59 you could say, if times were so much different that OM never emerged, there's probably not been any maemo either Nov 11 21:55:59 I think the rot actually set in at the same point. Nov 11 21:56:03 On n900 and OM Nov 11 21:56:06 Qt. Nov 11 21:56:17 actually I think maemo started same time or maybe earlier than OM Nov 11 21:56:22 They decided to largely dump a working user interface, to go to a more polished different one. Nov 11 21:56:44 Admittedly, in n900 case, it was somewhat pulled off, but a lot of dev traction was lost. Nov 11 21:57:20 OM could have had a shipping, workable hacker-phone based on the neo1973, shipping for xmas 2007. Nov 11 21:57:34 rly: your perception was quite accurate Nov 11 21:57:37 In may 2007, the phone stack was almost there. Nov 11 21:58:07 What happened to the 'IP' of OpenMoko? Nov 11 21:58:13 But it then got dumped and reinvented, and they went for shiny new hardware that would solve all their problems (but diddn't) which delayed the project another year. Nov 11 21:58:29 Another 18 months actually Nov 11 21:58:40 And at that time, apple ate it. Nov 11 21:58:41 rly: I sleep on that Nov 11 21:59:04 And the n900 ate the remaining chance of a significant offshoot project by decapitating the market. Nov 11 21:59:13 rly: honestly we placed all "IP" under creative commons Nov 11 21:59:14 As the n900 was 'open enough'. Nov 11 21:59:31 or GPL Nov 11 22:00:08 I wouldn't mind for the government to sponsor such projects. Nov 11 22:00:25 As an investor I also wouldn't really see a big problem. Nov 11 22:00:55 But there has to be some kind of commitment to produce an actual product in the end complete with manufacturing contracts, etc. Nov 11 22:01:09 yep Nov 11 22:01:41 * SpeedEvil wishes he had a billion or so to sponsor projects with. Nov 11 22:01:46 And to lobby. Nov 11 22:01:57 SpeedEvil: then there was dash Nov 11 22:02:02 I probably also wouldn't like the legal risks, since I don't understand them. Nov 11 22:02:24 Patents make the process a total minefield. Nov 11 22:02:24 It's sad that that's a consideration. Nov 11 22:02:50 You should not be able to get a patent for solving a novel problem in the obvious way. Nov 11 22:03:09 There are now general problem solving methods. Nov 11 22:03:38 That is methods that will _always_ solve the given problem optimally. Nov 11 22:03:58 Creativity is nothing more than a happy feeling people like to have to make them feel special. Nov 11 22:04:09 each other day I muse why patents worked in the late 19th early 20th century, but not any more Nov 11 22:04:24 It is because THE SINGULARITY IS NEAR. Nov 11 22:04:39 Nah, I don't know about that, but progress goes pretty fast these days. Nov 11 22:05:36 rly: some raher inspiring thoughts you toss around here Nov 11 22:06:11 DocScrutinizer: that's sarcasm right? (Sheldon voice) Nov 11 22:06:17 nope Nov 11 22:06:22 honest Nov 11 22:06:45 the problems solving method approach was inspiring to me Nov 11 22:07:00 a new thought, new PoV Nov 11 22:07:08 DocScrutinizer: it's not a very 'practical' approach, but it should work. Nov 11 22:07:13 DocScrutinizer: do you want the paper? Nov 11 22:07:46 I promise I'll not shout at you when you drop an URL here Nov 11 22:07:54 DocScrutinizer: http://www.hutter1.net/ai/pfastprg.pdf Nov 11 22:08:17 DocScrutinizer: that guy wrote a book on universal AI too. Nov 11 22:08:53 DocScrutinizer: and some related people improved again on that and there are some other related methods to that again. Nov 11 22:09:10 DocScrutinizer: there are about 30 papers or so that you would have to read to understand the field. Nov 11 22:09:23 Very interesting stuff, imho. Nov 11 22:09:54 One of the systems allows for putting a number on the complexity of any concrete problem. Nov 11 22:10:16 So, let's say you have some input 1 3 4 5445435 43323423 2312 312312 and you have to sort it. Nov 11 22:10:27 gathered as much - but I'm brilliant on getting a grasp of a concept even while not completely understanding the whole system Nov 11 22:11:36 Now, suppose you don't know a constructive way to sort there is still a way to sort it, but that process 'the learning' has a number of steps associated with it. You could use that as some universal measure of complexity. Nov 11 22:12:02 I haven't actually read about that idea in the literature, so perhaps I should write a paper about it :P Nov 11 22:12:16 I think it is a bit too trivial to publish, though. Nov 11 22:12:40 OTOH, the whole scientific world hangs together by simple incremental steps. Nov 11 22:12:51 sure Nov 11 22:13:33 Some people are actually building a machine based on these principles right now. Nov 11 22:13:44 anyway, sitting here with my jacket and boots, on my way out Nov 11 22:13:51 o/ Nov 11 22:13:54 bbl Nov 11 22:13:57 Ok, bye. Nov 11 23:18:15 ruskie, ping Nov 12 00:10:06 mgedmin, Jaffa: hi, are you online? I think vim should be updated to version 7.3 :) Nov 12 00:13:05 could you update it please? 7.3 has many cool features. And 7.2 n900 version doesn't have 'autochdir' option, please add it in 7.3, thank you! Nov 12 00:15:47 * mgedmin will try not to forget Nov 12 00:16:09 I need to set up a freemantle sbox targed on this machine first Nov 12 00:16:47 mgedmin: thank you! And please remember to add the feature 'autochdir' :) Nov 12 00:20:30 do you have scratchbox? Nov 12 00:21:33 mgedmin: no, I don't know it at all, if there are a step by step instruction, I will try Nov 12 00:25:21 for harmattan (n9/n950) there are (or used to be) screencasts at harmattan-dev.nokia.com Nov 12 00:25:35 for fremantle (n9) I don't have any links handy atm Nov 12 00:25:42 it's 2:30 am here, and I'm a bit tired Nov 12 00:25:50 I'll try to do something tomorrow Nov 12 00:25:54 (unless I forget) Nov 12 00:26:01 (or find I've no time) Nov 12 00:26:34 mgedmin: thank you, good night and have a good dream! Nov 12 00:28:23 bye! Nov 12 00:28:37 mgedmin: bye! Nov 12 00:29:40 can somebody please help me. i am trying to reflash my n900 and i keep getting error: creatfile, error = 5 Nov 12 00:42:38 Macer: sorry, no idea Nov 12 00:48:12 :( Nov 12 01:23:40 i can't seem to find a replacement screen or digitizer on ebay for a nokia n810 :'( Nov 12 01:25:53 does anyone have a part number or know of somewhere i could procure a replacement screen and possibly a replacement digitizer as well? Nov 12 01:28:52 ebay Nov 12 01:28:55 oh Nov 12 01:29:02 I missed the previous line. Nov 12 01:29:12 :P Nov 12 01:29:17 Unfortunately, parts dry up as userbase goe down. Nov 12 01:29:37 that's exactly why i'm asking people who may know... Nov 12 01:29:46 A n810 with other faults... Nov 12 01:30:04 ? Nov 12 01:30:09 Lurk and ask at a few time of days. Nov 12 01:30:14 few times of day. Nov 12 01:30:18 ... Nov 12 01:30:29 There are still people with 810s here. Nov 12 01:30:32 maybe some know. Nov 12 01:30:39 thats why i'm asking :P Nov 12 01:30:47 Fair enough. :) Nov 12 01:30:53 :) Nov 12 01:31:05 I should have red backscroll - I thought you were asking about n900, not n810 parts. Nov 12 01:31:42 i wouldn't mind a n900, but i sold my working n810 and i'm trying to get my other n810 with a cracked screen running Nov 12 01:32:39 Ah Nov 12 01:33:28 i should rephrase that, besides being scuffed it works just fine, excluding being able to see the display.. all the work i could do would have to be over ssh, kinda defeats the portablility aspect Nov 12 01:33:44 yep. Nov 12 02:46:31 Any rss feed for news on new packages on maemo? Nov 12 02:46:47 and news on package update Nov 12 02:52:24 awesome Nov 12 02:52:37 unfortunately .. i need hard drives in my synology to get it to work Nov 12 02:52:37 heh Nov 12 02:53:02 i was hoping it had a built in nand for the disk station server stuff Nov 12 02:54:44 * SpeedEvil is annoyed at the lack of AC power. Nov 12 02:55:05 ac power? Nov 12 02:55:19 My lights just went out. Nov 12 02:55:45 ouch Nov 12 02:55:57 part of my reason for getting the synology is that reason there Nov 12 02:56:08 my UPS can keep all my gear up for probably 2 hrs Nov 12 02:56:19 with the fileserver attached.... 20mins :) Nov 12 02:56:40 there is a maemo5 security update? Nov 12 02:57:55 diginotar-- Nov 12 02:57:59 That's it. Nov 12 02:58:24 Mine too. If I load-shed, and only have the DSL modem up. Nov 12 02:58:31 21.2011.38.002? Nov 12 02:58:46 2011???? Nov 12 02:58:49 It was OTA about a couple of weeks ago Nov 12 02:59:01 It was just the diginotar cert removal Nov 12 02:59:04 from whom? nokia? Nov 12 02:59:07 oh Nov 12 02:59:07 yes Nov 12 02:59:20 they went through all that trouble ? :) Nov 12 02:59:51 i am going to wait on cssu to be done before updating again **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Nov 12 02:59:56 2011