**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Nov 16 02:59:57 2011
Nov 16 04:04:14 <woldrich> what's 'view of app list'?
Nov 16 04:04:43 <woldrich> if you mean installed packaged,   dpkg --get-selections should work
Nov 16 04:05:30 <woldrich> oh dear. 2089 packages
Nov 16 04:07:30 <woldrich> at least half of them seems to be language files for obscure languages like swedish, I don't want this, can we tell dpkg to just install the english files?
Nov 16 06:37:05 <LaoLang_cool> woldrich: the view of the app list is the view after you click the icon at the top left
Nov 16 09:36:38 <cityLights> ~seem MohhamadAG
Nov 16 09:36:43 <cityLights> ~seen MohhamadAG
Nov 16 09:36:51 <Sicelo> one h
Nov 16 09:36:51 <infobot> i haven't seen 'mohhamadag', cityLights
Nov 16 09:37:07 <cityLights> ~seen DocScrutinizer
Nov 16 09:37:08 <infobot> docscrutinizer is currently on #maemo (10h 36m 20s) #n9 (10h 36m 20s) #harmattan (10h 36m 20s) #meego (10h 36m 20s) #openmoko (10h 36m 20s) #infobot (10h 36m 20s) #openmoko-cdevel (10h 36m 20s). Has said a total of 52 messages. Is idling for 6h 35m 32s, last said: 'n8'.
Nov 16 09:37:53 <Sicelo> ~seen MohammadAG
Nov 16 09:37:54 <infobot> mohammadag is currently on #maemo (1d 11h 50m 36s) #harmattan (1d 11h 50m 36s) #meego (1d 11h 50m 36s). Has said a total of 63 messages. Is idling for 14h 14m 54s, last said: 'slow as fuck though, 64MBs of RAM :P'.
Nov 16 09:38:08 <cityLights> DocScrutinizer: dnsmasq was working well
Nov 16 09:38:10 <Sicelo> ~seen DocScrutinizer51 
Nov 16 09:38:10 <infobot> docscrutinizer51 is currently on #maemo (2d 19h 48m 9s) #harmattan (2d 19h 48m 9s) #openmoko (2d 19h 48m 9s) #openmoko-cdevel (2d 19h 48m 9s). Has said a total of 14 messages. Is idling for 13h 17m 41s, last said: 'damn 3G cuts thru my battery in mere 9h of IRC standby'.
Nov 16 09:38:20 <cityLights> yet the domain suffix is not used
Nov 16 09:38:41 <cityLights> so name DOESNT query name.domain.net
Nov 16 09:39:08 <cityLights> the line search does appear in the resolv.conf.tun0
Nov 16 09:39:32 <cityLights> MohammadAG: was up?
Nov 16 09:50:05 * RST38h moos
Nov 16 09:53:38 <neal> Phlogistique: pong
Nov 16 09:57:02 <ruskie> http://www.reghardware.com/2011/11/16/nokia_exec_confirms_june_2012_windows_8_tablet_release/ <-- erm "Amsellem also likened Nokia's newly released Lumia 800 Windows Phone 7 smartphone to auto maker BMW's 5 Series."
Nov 16 09:57:19 <RST38h> Oh well
Nov 16 11:13:45 <RST38h> Anyone alive?
Nov 16 11:14:00 <SpeedEvil> I'm not sure.
Nov 16 11:14:10 <SpeedEvil> It's 11AM, but I may be going back to sleep.
Nov 16 11:14:29 <jonwil> I am here
Nov 16 11:32:25 <Phlogistique> neal: isn't your repo down?
Nov 16 12:15:37 <neal> Phlogistique: I'm not sure I understand the question.
Nov 16 12:16:10 <neal> Phlogistique: hssl.cs.jhu.edu is accessible and up for over a month...
Nov 16 12:26:30 <DocScrutinizer> cityLights: nice
Nov 16 12:33:12 <cityLights> hi
Nov 16 12:33:35 <cityLights> ok, how can I solve the domain problem?
Nov 16 12:34:00 <cityLights> so when I ping name, dnsmasq will try name.domainnet?
Nov 16 12:52:53 <DocScrutinizer> sorry, seems I don't know how to implement that on a dnsmasq based system like maemo. On a resolver-only system it seems to get managed by netconfig
Nov 16 12:53:54 <DocScrutinizer> might be related to /etc/hostname
Nov 16 13:07:33 <cityLights> I am seeking to dynamicly join a host to a domain
Nov 16 13:07:38 <cityLights> I guess
Nov 16 13:08:03 <cityLights> as for MohammdAG - did he get his N9?
Nov 16 13:08:08 <RST38h> no
Nov 16 13:08:22 <cityLights> can I buy it in brusells at fosdem?
Nov 16 13:08:27 <LaoLang_cool> I notice that maemo has a clipboard-manager
Nov 16 13:08:29 <cityLights> feb....
Nov 16 13:08:33 <LaoLang_cool> What's it?
Nov 16 13:08:57 <RST38h> software that manages clipboard contents, no?
Nov 16 13:09:11 <LaoLang_cool> I try to run in in xterm, but it says only allow one
Nov 16 13:11:33 <RST38h> maybe that is because a copy is already running?
Nov 16 13:11:33 <LaoLang_cool> RST38h: Is there a multi-clipboard manager? so I can copy several contents and paste them
Nov 16 13:11:48 <RST38h> maybe, jabe you searched downloads.maemo.org?
Nov 16 13:11:56 <RST38h> s/jave/have/
Nov 16 13:13:45 <LaoLang_cool> RST38h: My poor English, don't know what the right keyword is, I searched with 'clipboard', only 'clipboard-manager' returned
Nov 16 13:14:55 <DocScrutinizer> cityLights: from my opensuse system: http://paste.debian.net/145759/
Nov 16 13:15:23 <derf> LaoLang_cool: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1001316
Nov 16 13:15:24 <DocScrutinizer> cityLights: note please this system isn't dnsmasq based
Nov 16 13:15:55 <cityLights> you are very kind!
Nov 16 13:16:28 <cityLights> RST38h: so its "lost" in customes?
Nov 16 13:17:16 <RST38h> city: customs asked for some permit from some ministry, and also for more money
Nov 16 13:17:46 <cityLights> I can get permits and have $$
Nov 16 13:17:50 <cityLights> may I help 
Nov 16 13:17:50 <cityLights> ?
Nov 16 13:18:41 <cityLights> I want to keep using linux on my cellular -> I want to buy n9
Nov 16 13:18:52 <_nicolai_> LaoLang_cool, clipman http://maemo.org/packages/view/clipman/
Nov 16 13:18:56 <LaoLang_cool> derf: thanks, not exact what I want, but it's close.
Nov 16 13:18:57 <cityLights> I need hebrew -> mohammadag can do it
Nov 16 13:19:15 <cityLights> there for, I need mohammad ag to have a n9!
Nov 16 13:19:35 <RST38h> all you need is English
Nov 16 13:20:06 <LaoLang_cool> _nicolai_: thanks. Yes. But the tool I want is that it can make ctrl-v pop up a menu and let you select the content you've copyied
Nov 16 13:20:16 <cityLights> ok, I WANT hebrew
Nov 16 13:20:19 <cityLights> and rtl
Nov 16 13:20:21 <LaoLang_cool> RST38h: sorry, my English is broken, I know
Nov 16 13:20:51 <RST38h> city: Mohammad will just add arabic =)
Nov 16 13:22:57 <DocScrutinizer> ~israel-sucks
Nov 16 13:22:58 <infobot> israel-sucks is probably http://www.dhl.com/content/g0/en/express/tracking.shtml?brand=DHL&AWB=6936258346%0D%0A
Nov 16 13:23:16 <RST38h> Ahhaha
Nov 16 13:23:36 <RST38h> probably needs to be renamed to customs-suck or just customs =)
Nov 16 13:23:56 <DocScrutinizer> ~factinfo israel-sucks
Nov 16 13:23:56 <infobot> israel-sucks -- created by MohammadAG <~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG> 6d 14h 35m 57s ago; it has been requested 4 times, last by DocScrutinizer, 58s ago.
Nov 16 13:24:02 <cityLights> wow
Nov 16 13:24:05 <RST38h> ah
Nov 16 13:24:06 <cityLights> amazing
Nov 16 13:25:34 <DocScrutinizer> this no N9
Nov 16 13:26:21 <DocScrutinizer> I dunno if MohammadAG will receive an N9 right away from DDP, anyway this is N950
Nov 16 13:27:20 <DocScrutinizer> cityLights: and I doubt MohammadAG will add hebrew ;-P - heard he hates it in university
Nov 16 13:27:52 <cityLights> I am the one to solve this
Nov 16 13:28:03 <cityLights> getting a pkg from dhl every week
Nov 16 13:28:17 <cityLights> and I did offer my help
Nov 16 13:28:24 <cityLights> for free!
Nov 16 13:28:26 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade promised to push/cp/mv whatever the needed bits to cssu repo today, so we might see cssu-T17 next 24h finally
Nov 16 13:29:29 <cityLights> I know how to get the special permits
Nov 16 13:29:35 <cityLights> did it a few times
Nov 16 13:30:21 <DocScrutinizer> cityLights: last info about this unfortunate case is IL "FCC" seized the device and asked for some nonexistent "permission" according to a website they coded during the time the device got delayed at customs
Nov 16 13:30:58 <DocScrutinizer> now Nokia claims back the device from DHL and sends another one
Nov 16 13:31:02 <cityLights> ok, should I go to their offices and release it?
Nov 16 13:31:11 <cityLights> its 7km from here
Nov 16 13:31:32 <cityLights> and I remeber the names of the officals there
Nov 16 13:31:36 <DocScrutinizer> I think the ball is in Nokia's half again
Nov 16 13:32:04 <cityLights> next time I should help
Nov 16 13:32:37 <DocScrutinizer> last time the N950 went thru to MohammadAG w/o problems, this time customs fscked it up
Nov 16 13:33:18 <cityLights> better yet, I can get it at fosdem for him
Nov 16 13:33:30 <cityLights> as long as I can buy my n9
Nov 16 13:36:21 <DocScrutinizer> http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/%23harmattan.2011-11-15.log.html#t2011-11-15T19:47:37 >>so, Nokia's claiming the N950 back and are sending me another one tomorrow<< ff
Nov 16 13:37:20 <DocScrutinizer> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=bvrkuGNA
Nov 16 13:38:06 <DocScrutinizer> >> <MohammadAG> the whole delay was so they could code the website
Nov 16 13:38:35 <DocScrutinizer> >> <MohammadAG> and I must say, they're slow, http://www.moc.gov.il/8-he/MOC.aspx
Nov 16 13:50:27 * luke-jr never heard back from Nokia on N950 at all
Nov 16 13:52:14 <RST38h> ...A Chinese biologist has collected five tons of panda crap which he plans to use to make cancer-fighting tea, which will sell at a cup-dropping $36,000 a pound...
Nov 16 13:52:42 <ShadowJK> i guess that's better than selling panda paws as cancer cure
Nov 16 13:52:59 <RST38h> And just as effective
Nov 16 13:53:04 <SpeedEvil> Panda paws are a renewable resource.
Nov 16 13:53:15 <SpeedEvil> We have the technology. We can rebuild them!
Nov 16 13:53:22 <Macer> hahahahaha
Nov 16 13:53:48 <Macer> lmfao
Nov 16 13:54:19 <Macer> luke-jr: heard from nokia about am n950?
Nov 16 13:54:34 <luke-jr> …
Nov 16 13:55:00 <Macer> are you on the dev a list?
Nov 16 13:55:08 <luke-jr> what dev a list?
Nov 16 13:55:13 <Macer> A List :-) 
Nov 16 13:55:22 <luke-jr> English
Nov 16 13:55:34 <ShadowJK> yes please
Nov 16 13:55:43 <Macer> meaning are you under the assumption tjat you rate an n950?
Nov 16 13:55:48 <Macer> that
Nov 16 13:56:41 <Macer> :-) 
Nov 16 13:56:59 * luke-jr ignores Macer until he wakes up enough to speak Englsih
Nov 16 13:57:05 <Macer> uhm
Nov 16 13:57:07 * ShadowJK too
Nov 16 13:57:21 <Macer> i am asking what you contacted them about
Nov 16 13:58:02 <luke-jr> I said I do  the Gentoo ports, and asked if their thing was strictly Maemo-only.
Nov 16 13:58:10 <luke-jr> not only did they not send me one, they never answered the question :P
Nov 16 13:58:23 <Macer> nokia will not dish out to developers who werent hanging onto their testicles throughout the entire meego process
Nov 16 13:58:42 <Macer> lmao! for gentoo??
Nov 16 13:58:57 <Macer> i woild have deleted that email too
Nov 16 13:59:04 <Macer> hahahaha
Nov 16 13:59:50 <DocScrutinizer> Macer: >>nokia will not dish out to developers who werent hanging onto their testicles throughout the entire meego process<< still not good enough for the WTF of the week, try harder ;-D
Nov 16 14:00:07 <Macer> the n950s are for real development for meego and not for some gross hackery to get some lame linux distro working on it
Nov 16 14:00:27 <aholler_> s/are/were/
Nov 16 14:00:40 <DocScrutinizer> this sentence almost makes sense to me now :-)
Nov 16 14:00:43 <Macer> aholler_: fair point
Nov 16 14:01:58 <Macer> DocScrutinizer: really.. thought that made the wtf of the week lol
Nov 16 14:02:02 <RST38h> Meego? What is Meego?
Nov 16 14:02:10 <luke-jr> Macer: MeeGo is a lame joke.
Nov 16 14:02:41 <Macer> luke-jr: maybe. but as far as lame linux distros go. gentoo has to be pretty high up there.
Nov 16 14:03:00 <luke-jr> no, Gentoo has a comfortable niche
Nov 16 14:03:19 <Macer> and you are writong to nokia not to develop... but to hack to get some linux distro working
Nov 16 14:03:37 <Macer> which... based on experience from all prevopus models...
Nov 16 14:03:46 <Macer> will never worl properly
Nov 16 14:03:52 <Macer> work
Nov 16 14:04:21 <Macer> damn hc vkb
Nov 16 14:04:41 <RST38h> luke: comfortable for whom?
Nov 16 14:04:59 <RST38h> luke: red-eyed linux geeks recompiling their kernel nightly? =)
Nov 16 14:05:06 <luke-jr> meh, the N950s were just loaners anyway?
Nov 16 14:05:13 <Macer> RST38h: people who like to watch a screen scrolling endlessly
Nov 16 14:05:14 <luke-jr> RST38h: troll
Nov 16 14:05:29 <Macer> i have a loaner n900
Nov 16 14:05:34 <Macer> made in finland
Nov 16 14:05:41 <RST38h> like: arguably, a much better occupation
Nov 16 14:05:54 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: ALL Nokia DDP devices were loaners ever since
Nov 16 14:06:11 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: maybe. but my N900 wasn't.
Nov 16 14:06:16 <Macer> luke-jr: i am just messing with you
Nov 16 14:06:17 <DocScrutinizer> hah
Nov 16 14:06:30 <luke-jr> I guess  the difference is, Nokia has no intention of ever making N950 available
Nov 16 14:06:40 <woldrich> but why. idiots.
Nov 16 14:06:43 <Macer> but in all good honesty.. from the nokia perspective
Nov 16 14:06:52 <woldrich> they have customers that want it damn it
Nov 16 14:06:55 <Macer> if i worked there and read that email i would have read "Gentoo" and "delete"
Nov 16 14:06:56 <Macer> heh
Nov 16 14:07:07 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: so you are definitely the only guy that got a N900 gift from Nokia
Nov 16 14:07:10 <Macer> in their eyes the n950s were for serious developers 
Nov 16 14:07:33 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: doubt it
Nov 16 14:07:41 <DocScrutinizer> except maybe some Nokia internals, like konttori etc
Nov 16 14:07:41 <Macer> woldrich: because mass production would cost them more than they would gain
Nov 16 14:07:53 <aholler_> Macer: stop trolling, you obviously know nothing about gentoo
Nov 16 14:07:59 <woldrich> Macer, really? the n900 isn't that different
Nov 16 14:08:07 <HaXeri> DocScrutinizer: they aren't
Nov 16 14:08:11 <Macer> woldrich: most companies learn from their mistakes
Nov 16 14:08:18 <HaXeri> why would a developer make a software for MeeGo?
Nov 16 14:08:19 <DocScrutinizer> HaXeri: ??
Nov 16 14:08:21 <Macer> the n900 didn't bring either profit or good reviews
Nov 16 14:08:27 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: in fact, I know slono got one too
Nov 16 14:08:31 <Macer> because most joe users didn't like the non-portrait
Nov 16 14:08:38 <woldrich> I havent read many bad reviews of the n900
Nov 16 14:08:39 <Macer> or the non-flashy hildon
Nov 16 14:08:49 <HaXeri> DocScrutinizer: making app for Windows 7 mobile or iOS would be 100 times more profitable than doing it for maemo
Nov 16 14:08:50 <Macer> woldrich: well i am sure many did
Nov 16 14:08:53 <HaXeri> *meego
Nov 16 14:09:05 <Macer> not only reviews on sites that review things.. but purchasing sites as well
Nov 16 14:09:16 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: I got a N900 too, and managed another 5 or 6 to go to felow devels. ALL were loaners
Nov 16 14:09:24 <Macer> if someone goes to amazon and thinks an n900 was a good device.. if they even knew what it was... and see 1 str
Nov 16 14:09:27 <Macer> star
Nov 16 14:09:33 <Macer> next... let me get a droid instead
Nov 16 14:09:38 <Macer> or and iphone :)
Nov 16 14:09:53 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: re-read the papers you signed
Nov 16 14:09:56 <Macer> why would nokia put that much money behind something that wouldn't sell? just like the n900 didn't sell
Nov 16 14:10:04 <Macer> compared to all other devices
Nov 16 14:10:08 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: I signed nothing.
Nov 16 14:10:16 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: it just showed up in the mail one day.
Nov 16 14:10:31 <DocScrutinizer> amazing
Nov 16 14:10:47 <Macer> woldrich: i am not being a jerk towards you... and i love my n900. but playing devil's advocate... that is what i think nokia would say
Nov 16 14:10:58 <woldrich> well fuck you nokia
Nov 16 14:11:01 <Macer> just as i think nokia wouldn't give 2 secs to an email asking for an n950 to put gentoo on it
Nov 16 14:11:25 <Macer> if gentoo was in the subject.. they probably deleted it right away and didn't even open it
Nov 16 14:11:56 <woldrich> yeah we've heard that 3 times already
Nov 16 14:12:02 <Macer> they have a hard enough time with meego.. for which the n950 was made to support.. let alone a whole other fork of people bugging them for gentoo related problems
Nov 16 14:12:23 <Macer> why even start a headache like that?
Nov 16 14:12:57 <luke-jr> Macer: considering that Gentoo is the only OS actually supported for N8x0 and N900 now…
Nov 16 14:13:12 <DocScrutinizer> there's been meego-arm
Nov 16 14:13:20 <Macer> as well as maemo-ssu
Nov 16 14:13:22 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: they still support N8x0 and N900?
Nov 16 14:13:34 <DocScrutinizer> which is all Nokia will care about for N9(50) - if anything
Nov 16 14:14:32 <Macer> luke-jr: you have a fair point in that your gentoo projects do continue on the n8x0.. if i can't get debian running on my n810 i will use gentoo ;)
Nov 16 14:14:44 <Macer> but that is simply because i am abandoning it as a device
Nov 16 14:14:49 <Macer> and going to use it as a small powered server
Nov 16 14:15:10 <Macer> something it was not intended to be 
Nov 16 14:15:51 <Macer> if the synology diskstation i have can not handle certain things though. so far the thing is a beast. 
Nov 16 14:16:09 <Macer> otherwise my n810 will be placed somewhere as a glorified mp3 player
Nov 16 14:16:26 <Macer>  / fm radio 
Nov 16 14:17:43 <luke-jr> except N810 doesn't have FM…
Nov 16 14:18:03 <Macer> oh.. really? haven't used it in a while.. ah well
Nov 16 14:18:10 <Macer> then glorified mp3 player :)
Nov 16 14:32:50 <luke-jr> oddly enough, I can't seem to find any record of Quim askign for my address
Nov 16 14:38:05 <Macer> wikipedia is always begging for money
Nov 16 14:38:25 <Macer> i sure hope the owner doesn't make 7 figures
Nov 16 14:39:48 <RST38h> Macer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_Damage_%28film%29
Nov 16 14:40:01 <RST38h> Macer: find 10 differences
Nov 16 14:42:29 <Macer> hahaha
Nov 16 14:47:00 <Macer> RST38h: nice!
Nov 16 14:47:08 <Macer> i have to see that
Nov 16 14:50:10 * luke-jr prefers Wikipedia die
Nov 16 15:12:02 <Phlogistique> neal: oh. Yesterday I had problems with it. OK.
Nov 16 15:12:48 <neal> Phlogistique: Have you decided to write a twitter client?
Nov 16 15:13:25 <Phlogistique> no, Khwitteur is fine
Nov 16 15:13:43 <Phlogistique> thank you :)
Nov 16 15:13:53 <neal> no problem :)
Nov 16 17:12:20 <smhar_> greetings
Nov 16 17:14:25 <smhar_> when I run the App manager to update my N900, it tells me that there are no updates available, but when I run apt-get upgrade it says there are 36 updates, what could be wrong?
Nov 16 17:16:49 <Trizt> smhar_: I would guess on that you run the "hack" to disable the auto-check of updates when the phone gets on-line, think this does also affect the app manager.
Nov 16 18:01:04 <sombragris> hi there... good afternoon
Nov 16 18:01:33 <sombragris> I have a question: How can I get a replacement stylus for N900? I lost one and I can't seem to find it...
Nov 16 18:25:45 <MohammadAG> opinions? http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/?p=50
Nov 16 18:26:21 <lardman|home> MohammadAG: sounds interesting
Nov 16 18:26:34 <lardman|home> sort of like Google Latitude, but with better controls
Nov 16 18:27:25 <lardman|home> I'd add to the list of things to look at, the ability to hook into existing location services by default, e.g. latitude
Nov 16 18:27:58 <lardman|home> so that those with a different phone, and until someone ports the app, have a way of interacting too
Nov 16 18:28:10 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: interesting idea
Nov 16 18:29:01 <MohammadAG> lardman|home, I'm l ooking for devs on all platforms
Nov 16 18:29:02 <MohammadAG> looking*
Nov 16 18:29:13 <MohammadAG> I already got some iOS devs interested, we're fine for Maemo/MeeGo
Nov 16 18:29:20 <lardman|home> ok
Nov 16 18:29:25 <MohammadAG> if it's in Qt/QML that's symbian covered too
Nov 16 18:29:38 <MohammadAG> and desktops, though mostly useless there
Nov 16 18:29:50 <MohammadAG> mostly FYI, you can find your own phone with this theoriticly
Nov 16 18:30:20 <MohammadAG> if you request your phone's location from your username, no prompt should show
Nov 16 18:30:41 <lardman|home> on the phone
Nov 16 18:30:46 <MohammadAG> yes
Nov 16 18:30:54 <MohammadAG> ideally we'll have a web interface for this
Nov 16 18:31:09 <MohammadAG> so modern browsers can use it too
Nov 16 18:31:20 <lardman|home> though that is catered for by other services isn't it, I'm more interested in the being able to find other people with e.g. time or location radius criteria for them and me
Nov 16 18:31:22 <MohammadAG> mobile browsers should be able to handle these things
Nov 16 18:31:50 <lardman|home> "that is catered for" <- finding your phone if it's "borrowed"
Nov 16 18:32:04 <MohammadAG> lardman|home, the point is finding people
Nov 16 18:32:10 <MohammadAG> but you can also use it to find your phone
Nov 16 18:32:22 <lardman|home> sure, so an added bonus
Nov 16 18:32:24 <MohammadAG> (that's not the main point though)
Nov 16 18:32:28 <MohammadAG> yeah, exactly
Nov 16 18:33:35 <lardman|home> would be useful to do offline cell id location
Nov 16 18:34:17 <MohammadAG> we could add an option for "fallback to SMS when no connection is available"
Nov 16 18:34:35 <MohammadAG> the server would send a hash + some code that's suppressed by the phone UI
Nov 16 18:34:49 <MohammadAG> and that replies back to the server
Nov 16 18:35:00 <MohammadAG> though all this (even without the SMS part) needs something to be paid
Nov 16 18:35:03 <MohammadAG> I'm not sure which one
Nov 16 18:35:15 <MohammadAG> whether it's the API, the app, etc, we need some $$$ to run the servers
Nov 16 18:35:34 <lardman|home> yeah, that is a minor problem
Nov 16 18:35:35 <lardman|home> ;)
Nov 16 18:36:03 <hiemanshu> charge for membership
Nov 16 18:36:07 <lardman|home> hmm
Nov 16 18:36:32 <lardman|home> small charge or donate, presumably that would be sufficient to run the servers with sufficient uptake
Nov 16 18:36:50 <MohammadAG> lardman|home, donations aren't that stable for an income
Nov 16 18:36:55 <MohammadAG> anyway, we'll decide later
Nov 16 18:37:03 <MohammadAG> I'm planning to make a team for this
Nov 16 18:37:10 <lardman|home> MohammadAG: no, though if the donations are significantly more than the running costs that's not an issue
Nov 16 18:37:44 <hiemanshu> lardman|home: when does that ever happen in the real world? ( except wikipedia)
Nov 16 18:38:06 <lardman|home> hiemanshu: depends what the running costs are and how many people use it
Nov 16 18:38:22 <DocScrutinizer> hell, help! we dunno where to stash all the money from donations!
Nov 16 18:38:25 <DocScrutinizer> LOL
Nov 16 18:38:26 <lardman|home> lol
Nov 16 18:38:37 <hiemanshu> running costs I expect $8-10 a month for a decent VPS
Nov 16 18:38:42 <hiemanshu> DocScrutinizer: LOL
Nov 16 18:38:48 <MohammadAG> hiemanshu, remember the server will be doing lots of connections
Nov 16 18:38:57 <MohammadAG> I plan to have an open app = open TCP connection
Nov 16 18:39:28 <lardman|home> p2p?
Nov 16 18:39:52 <lardman|home> not sure how that would be implemented, and it would use more bandwidth 
Nov 16 18:39:52 <MohammadAG> phones have batteries, not a power supply :p
Nov 16 18:40:13 <MohammadAG> P2P?
Nov 16 18:40:25 <MohammadAG> an open connection would be better tbh
Nov 16 18:42:35 <DocScrutinizer> for a reference: donations for hostmode yielded marginally more than 100 bucks in more than a year
Nov 16 18:43:19 <MohammadAG> I got $80 for Sociality in 2 months, but then poof :p
Nov 16 18:43:36 <DocScrutinizer> basically same as for h-e-n, yes
Nov 16 18:44:43 <lardman|home> DocScrutinizer: I never used hostmode, and equally there weren't many users in total in the grand scheme of things
Nov 16 18:44:58 <lardman|home> not compared with a cross-platform location tool anyway
Nov 16 18:45:13 <MohammadAG> oh hey
Nov 16 18:45:15 <DocScrutinizer> sure
Nov 16 18:45:18 <MohammadAG> we could make it paid on iOS
Nov 16 18:45:22 <MohammadAG> that's a good income
Nov 16 18:45:22 <lardman|home> lol
Nov 16 18:46:27 <lardman|home> Anyway, whichever way it needs to be done that sounds reasonable
Nov 16 18:46:54 <DocScrutinizer> print a fat "I AM RICH" on top of screen on the iOS app, and sell it for 499 bucks
Nov 16 18:47:03 * lardman|home has always thought a nice server on which to run number crunching code for e.g. voice recog would be nice and useful ;)
Nov 16 18:47:04 <hiemanshu> lol
Nov 16 18:47:09 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, wasn't that done
Nov 16 18:47:13 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Nov 16 18:47:19 <DocScrutinizer> could be done again
Nov 16 18:47:21 <MohammadAG> and it was 7k not 500
Nov 16 18:47:27 <MohammadAG> or I could be mistaken
Nov 16 18:47:37 <DocScrutinizer> nah, think you're right
Nov 16 18:47:46 <MohammadAG> no
Nov 16 18:47:48 <MohammadAG> 6.999k
Nov 16 18:48:18 <DocScrutinizer> THIS was FRIGGIN BRILLIANT! 
Nov 16 18:48:31 <lardman|home> MohammadAG: so could the server be extended to do things like traffic speed calculation...?
Nov 16 18:48:46 <MohammadAG> lardman|home, yes, but Waze does that no?
Nov 16 18:48:54 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, 1k
Nov 16 18:49:05 <lardman|home> MohammadAG: so I understand, but do we have a client?
Nov 16 18:49:46 <lardman|home> MohammadAG: which also triggers the question of whether the server is required, or whether an app could simply turn an exsiting service on and off
Nov 16 18:50:10 <lardman|home> also I don't afaik have access to the Waze server code
Nov 16 18:50:45 <MohammadAG> Sorry, it's cause I have an iPod
Nov 16 18:50:53 <MohammadAG> and an iPhone, though that's at Orange for replacement
Nov 16 18:51:03 <MohammadAG> iPod going tomorrow for $200
Nov 16 18:51:04 <lardman|home> Good God, an iPhone.....
Nov 16 18:51:15 <lardman|home> what has the world come to
Nov 16 18:51:17 <lardman|home> ?
Nov 16 18:51:19 <MohammadAG> it's useful to have
Nov 16 18:51:22 <MohammadAG> for two reasons
Nov 16 18:51:28 <MohammadAG> Waze = you know shit on the road
Nov 16 18:51:29 <lardman|home> coaster?
Nov 16 18:51:43 <MohammadAG> Second, my bill was 150-250 bucks a month
Nov 16 18:51:49 <MohammadAG> getting the iPhone got it down to 50
Nov 16 18:51:54 <lardman|home> an open source waze would be cool
Nov 16 18:51:59 <MohammadAG> Totally
Nov 16 18:52:00 <lardman|home> ouch at the bill
Nov 16 18:52:08 <MohammadAG> but we need users
Nov 16 18:52:12 <MohammadAG> that's what Waze has
Nov 16 18:52:15 <MohammadAG> at least in Israel
Nov 16 18:52:22 <lardman|home> sure
Nov 16 18:52:28 <MohammadAG> I mean, I see about 70 on an intersection on long roads
Nov 16 18:52:32 * lardman|home has a look to see what else Waze does
Nov 16 18:52:49 <MohammadAG> lardman|home, tracks you and reports hazards/police/stuff like that to you
Nov 16 18:53:09 <MohammadAG> "Hazard reported ahead" is spoken, and a count-down-like distance label
Nov 16 18:53:27 <MohammadAG> "Police reported ahead"
Nov 16 18:53:43 <MohammadAG> "Speed trap reported ahead", as well as Red light camera + fake camera etc
Nov 16 18:53:53 <lardman|home> ah ok
Nov 16 18:53:54 <MohammadAG> it also shows other users' speeds
Nov 16 18:54:06 <MohammadAG> basically, we need access to Waze's servers to make an open source successful app
Nov 16 18:54:12 <lardman|home> is there a need to replace it for those aspects?
Nov 16 18:54:13 <MohammadAG> the amount of data they have is awesome
Nov 16 18:54:58 <lardman|home> yeah, so they have mapping data from somewhere, speed camera data from somewhere, presumable landmark (petrol station) data, routing data, and then finally user speed data for routing, etc
Nov 16 18:55:08 <MohammadAG> lardman|home, no
Nov 16 18:55:15 <MohammadAG> mapping data was created by users driving
Nov 16 18:55:26 <lardman|home> oh ok
Nov 16 18:55:26 <MohammadAG> they have their own maps
Nov 16 18:55:45 <lardman|home> I think I'd prefer to use OSM and then add to that
Nov 16 18:56:06 <MohammadAG> no
Nov 16 18:56:10 <MohammadAG> their maps are dynamic
Nov 16 18:56:15 <MohammadAG> basically, you don't get images
Nov 16 18:56:26 <lardman|home> what do you mean?
Nov 16 18:56:27 <MohammadAG> the app gets data + locations, so the app receives text only
Nov 16 18:56:41 <MohammadAG> and the app itself paints the data
Nov 16 18:57:10 <lardman|home> format differences aside, not much different to receiving some vector data surely?
Nov 16 18:58:23 <lardman|home> Anyway I could imagine using OSM as a backend for road and landmark data (do they have speed cameras?)
Nov 16 18:58:55 <lardman|home> I wonder if the on-device client could also hook into the Waze network as a client and then "borrow" data about roadspeeds
Nov 16 18:59:03 <lardman|home> not sure if that's exposed or against the terms of use
Nov 16 18:59:35 <lardman|home> traffic blockages, roadworks and the like can be had for free by a little webscraping or RDS if you're not in the UK
Nov 16 19:00:05 <lardman|home> I wonder if RDS traffic data can be reproduced in the UK or if that's again against the terms of use...?
Nov 16 19:01:00 <lardman|home> MohammadAG: Anyway my point was that the knowing the location of your friends is compelling imo, but that there are other possible apps that could use the same backend data
Nov 16 19:01:16 <MohammadAG> lardman|home, maybe in future versions
Nov 16 19:01:25 <MohammadAG> basically right now, the app needs to use very little battery
Nov 16 19:01:42 <lardman|home> sure
Nov 16 19:01:43 <MohammadAG> as in, when someone requests your location, your phone's pinged, GPS is sent and switched off
Nov 16 19:01:52 <lardman|home> I was just thinking about what one could do with servers ;)
Nov 16 19:02:37 <lardman|home> Is it possible to ping a phone on a 3G connection?
Nov 16 19:03:15 <lardman|home> especially if it's moving in and out of signal and across cell towers? (/me has no idea)
Nov 16 19:03:24 <MohammadAG> lardman|home, http://i42.tinypic.com/2chqmtk.jpg
Nov 16 19:03:35 <MohammadAG> btw, next to time you can see free memory, so have a laugh
Nov 16 19:04:20 <lardman|home> what is that Waze?
Nov 16 19:05:55 <MohammadAG> yes
Nov 16 19:06:31 <lardman|home> pretty sparse in the UK outside of London
Nov 16 19:06:51 <MohammadAG> sec
Nov 16 19:06:52 <lardman|home> but going back to my question, can you really do push updates?
Nov 16 19:06:53 <MohammadAG> more incoming
Nov 16 19:07:10 <MohammadAG> lardman|home, on?
Nov 16 19:07:21 <lardman|home> ?
Nov 16 19:07:22 <MohammadAG> technically you can, waze does that after all
Nov 16 19:07:53 <lardman|home> does it, or does it get the phone to auto-update every X minutes?
Nov 16 19:07:58 <MohammadAG> lardman|home, http://i39.tinypic.com/35l9cwm.jpg
Nov 16 19:08:36 <MohammadAG> lardman|home, http://i44.tinypic.com/a4lh1d.jpg
Nov 16 19:08:49 <lardman|home> yeah certainly seems useful, though I'd prefer to have access to the raw data and to then process it for e.g. routing info
Nov 16 19:08:56 <MohammadAG> http://i39.tinypic.com/d5eza.jpg
Nov 16 19:09:29 <MohammadAG> lardman|home, this is probably what you mean http://i40.tinypic.com/2mxq5tx.jpg
Nov 16 19:10:31 <lardman|home> yeah knowing the median road speed, plus using historic data, would be an interesting tihng to look at
Nov 16 19:11:07 <lardman|home> so fine Waze currently does that, though if your app takes off, you potentially have far more users
Nov 16 19:11:27 <lardman|home> but back to the main goal of your app, how would the updates be performed?
Nov 16 19:11:31 <Macer> ugh
Nov 16 19:11:47 <Macer> the gvoice plugin is driving me nuts
Nov 16 19:11:50 <MohammadAG> for tracking? open TCP connection
Nov 16 19:11:55 <Macer> it is totally broken
Nov 16 19:12:04 <MohammadAG> the locating? simple push of data then disconnect
Nov 16 19:12:05 <lardman|home> i.e. can the server actually ping an individual device, or is the device told when to connect and update its location/speed/etc
Nov 16 19:12:06 <Macer> keeps making duplicate contacts
Nov 16 19:12:21 <Macer> or messes up when starting an "IM" for txting 
Nov 16 19:12:36 <MohammadAG> lardman|home, second
Nov 16 19:12:40 <Macer> where the im isnt associasted with the contact you stasrted it with
Nov 16 19:12:42 <lardman|home> np
Nov 16 19:12:51 <Macer> is there any active dev being done on it?
Nov 16 19:12:52 <MohammadAG> an open TCP connection is left, when that receives a connect request it does a full connection
Nov 16 19:13:00 <MohammadAG> on what
Nov 16 19:13:01 <Macer> or a better way to use gvoice in maemo?
Nov 16 19:13:13 <Macer> theonering?
Nov 16 19:13:24 <Macer> gvoice plugin for maemo
Nov 16 19:13:43 <MohammadAG> there was a plan for Nokia to update it through the CSSU, not sure about it
Nov 16 19:13:48 <Macer> damn
Nov 16 19:13:53 <Macer> that is doubtful
Nov 16 19:14:03 <Macer> nokia never does anything
Nov 16 19:14:38 <Macer> the worst is when it really gets screwed up and when you txt your msgs show up as someone else's number or name
Nov 16 19:15:05 <Macer> if you txt you have to open the contact card and merge it with the contact
Nov 16 19:15:14 <Macer> otherwise it won't show their name
Nov 16 19:15:31 <Macer> maybe i will try dialcentral
Nov 16 19:15:47 <Macer> bdecause this plugin totally sucks.. it is horribly broken
Nov 16 19:16:41 <Macer> also when you set up the forwarding number it places it as the screen name 
Nov 16 19:17:07 <Macer> so whenever you reconnect your screen name in your im is your number instead of the sceen name you set
Nov 16 19:17:35 <Macer> but the worst part is the way it doesn't properly integrate with contacts
Nov 16 19:17:57 <Macer> even if you merge all the contacts.. upon reconnect.. you have a ton of duplicate contacts again
Nov 16 19:18:19 <Macer> even if the gvoice info is already merged into existing contacts
Nov 16 19:18:59 <Macer> is it even worth filing a bug on all this stuff considering it hasn't been updated forever and there seems to be no active dev for it?
Nov 16 19:23:20 <Macer> http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=The_One_Ring&diff=41851&oldid=41828
Nov 16 19:23:39 <Macer> So you might be using Dialcentral and be thinking "the chat system is horrible and I want to use my system's contacts.
Nov 16 19:24:09 <Macer> hahahaha!! .. nice to see they improved upon that (sarcasm) :)
Nov 16 19:29:25 <Macer> i am trying to find out where you file bugs
Nov 16 19:33:22 <Macer> i will file a bug on it but its repair is doubtful tbh
Nov 16 19:37:18 <jargon-> does mpd+ncmpcpp work on the n900 in freemantle? has anyone successfully tried this? what other mpd-clients work on n900 freemantle?
Nov 16 19:37:48 <mgedmin> mmpc is nice
Nov 16 19:38:05 <mgedmin> in fact the nicest mpd client I've ever seen on any platform, probably
Nov 16 19:38:55 <jargon-> mgedmin: http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/Clients they say here it's for 800/810. will it work on 900 too?
Nov 16 19:39:19 <mgedmin> I have it on my n900
Nov 16 19:39:26 <jargon-> ok
Nov 16 19:39:34 <jargon-> i'll try it out then
Nov 16 19:39:47 <mgedmin> it's possible I've never used it on my n900, but it runs
Nov 16 19:39:53 <mgedmin> (just checked)
Nov 16 19:40:00 <jargon-> ok
Nov 16 19:47:09 <Macer> nice
Nov 16 19:47:32 <Macer> have to love how maemo.org doesnt have a common user database for filing bugs
Nov 16 19:47:37 <Macer> :)
Nov 16 19:47:48 <Macer> so i have to make an acct for both?
Nov 16 19:47:51 <Gh0sty> SSO is an illusion
Nov 16 19:47:56 <Gh0sty> it doesn not exist anywhere ... 
Nov 16 19:49:46 <SpeedEvil> It kinda does now.
Nov 16 19:49:52 * SpeedEvil points to facebook.com.
Nov 16 19:53:20 <jargon-> hmm. where do i find mpd in the pkgmgr? it's not called mpd,apparently.
Nov 16 19:53:51 <jargon-> frak. brb.
Nov 16 20:06:04 <jargon-> is there no way to search the pkgmgr?
Nov 16 20:06:56 <SpeedEvil> apt-cache search
Nov 16 20:07:17 <jargon-> doing that now,actually. was hoping the GUI one had that feature too
Nov 16 20:08:35 <jargon-> well i found libmpd "High-level client library for accessing Music Player Daemon", but i see no actual Music Player Daemon. :-/
Nov 16 20:11:14 <neal> mpd runs on a different server
Nov 16 20:11:28 <neal> typically
Nov 16 20:11:37 <jargon-> neal: aaah i see
Nov 16 20:11:51 <neal> I have a music server, which is headless
Nov 16 20:11:54 <neal> it runs mpd
Nov 16 20:12:04 <neal> I control it using an mpd client
Nov 16 21:11:21 <trumee> does N900 offer better 3g speed compared to N95?
Nov 16 21:12:07 <trumee> i want to use the phone as a dumb modem, and have a choice between N95 and N900
Nov 16 21:14:53 <Technomike> hey guys
Nov 16 21:15:49 <Technomike> just to confirm... can i install the latest cssu on the latest maemo software 1.3.1
Nov 16 21:16:07 <Macer> this made in china battery charger actually works pretty well
Nov 16 21:16:37 <Sicelo> yes Technomike 
Nov 16 21:16:38 <Macer> i have a nice little 3 battery rotation going on :)
Nov 16 21:33:46 <technomike`> Sicelo - i will backup but does it retain apps and settings etc
Nov 16 21:34:11 <Sicelo> yes.. i installed stable CSSU
Nov 16 21:34:30 <technomike`> ok thanks :)
Nov 16 22:29:30 <Macer> wow see... now i opened conversations and i have contacts mixed up
Nov 16 22:29:53 <Macer> one is a gvoice txt that is for one contact but showing the info from another
Nov 17 01:14:51 <xqo> hi
Nov 17 01:15:04 <xqo> what is the general opinion about the N9? is it everything we hoped?
Nov 17 01:15:45 <xqo> oh wait n9 is meego isnt it
Nov 17 01:16:47 <NIN101> it is harmattan, not the meego known from meego.com or so. 
Nov 17 01:19:39 <Robot101> xqo: its a really nice phone
Nov 17 01:19:53 <xqo> Robot101
Nov 17 01:19:56 <Robot101> *really* nice, much more polished than the N900
Nov 17 01:19:58 <xqo> <SpeedEvil> If you're happy with a phone that is way more locked-down than the n900, with no opportunity to change kernel or add modules, or moduify system scripts, then fine.
Nov 17 01:20:15 <Robot101> xqo: it's harder to do "general linux" stuff on there - its locked quite a lot as SpeedEvil says (said?)
Nov 17 01:20:34 <luke-jr> if I wanted a phone, I'd use Android
Nov 17 01:20:37 <Robot101> but as a consumer product, and I can turn on a terminal and ssh to my IRC, I am so happy with it
Nov 17 01:20:45 <xqo> ok
Nov 17 01:20:47 <luke-jr> Robot101: Android can too
Nov 17 01:20:57 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.meego.com/User:Javispedro/Activities_blocked_by_the_N9_and_N950_security_policy
Nov 17 01:21:09 <SpeedEvil> It's a nice consumer product.
Nov 17 01:21:28 <SpeedEvil> But the product can't be polished by external devs to nearly the same extent that the n900 can.
Nov 17 01:21:43 <Robot101> luke-jr: yeah, but we worked a lot more on the N9 than Android. Google can suck my nuts - at least Nokia were trying to do something with real OSS.
Nov 17 01:22:18 <luke-jr> Robot101: Free software != we do all the work for no gain
Nov 17 01:22:43 <Robot101> I'm sorry to say it, but #maemo didn't make the N9
Nov 17 01:23:14 <nox-> there should just be a knob to turn this aegis stuff off...
Nov 17 01:23:41 <xqo> so where do you go if you want a real opensource phone that is also a nice consumer product?
Nov 17 01:23:45 <Robot101> nox-: there was meant to be, an open mode which disabled certain apps / features - I knew when that was promised it wouldn't happen though :/
Nov 17 01:23:52 <Robot101> xqo: utopia :(
Nov 17 01:24:01 <xqo> x.x
Nov 17 01:24:09 <Robot101> openmoko freerunner was too much opensource and not enough competent product management
Nov 17 01:24:15 <Robot101> there were 3 partly done platforms
Nov 17 01:24:20 <xqo> i actually ahve that, Robot101
Nov 17 01:24:21 <Robot101> people rewriting stuff all over the place
Nov 17 01:24:22 <xqo> have*
Nov 17 01:24:38 <xqo> but it cant be used as a phone
Nov 17 01:24:41 <luke-jr> xqo: phones suck anyway
Nov 17 01:24:46 <Robot101> nobody who actually sat on top and said MAKE ONE THING. MAKE IT GOOD. MAKE GSM PHONE CALLS WORK BEFORE YOU PORT ASTERISK TO IT.
Nov 17 01:25:12 <Robot101> geeks can't make a nice product on their own. they need designers and some management. :)
Nov 17 01:25:18 <luke-jr> Robot101: nonsense
Nov 17 01:25:37 <luke-jr> give us the hardware and specs, and we will make a platform far superior to anything the commercial industry has
Nov 17 01:25:59 <Robot101> that happened with freerunner, right? oh wait... no.
Nov 17 01:26:09 <luke-jr> no
Nov 17 01:26:11 <Robot101> superior by your criteria, not by any normal people's standards. geeks will make it work as well as they want and then stop.
Nov 17 01:26:24 <xqo> Robot101, theres another phone coming in the spirit of openmoko. GTA04
Nov 17 01:26:32 <xqo> according to #meego
Nov 17 01:26:48 <Robot101> it's like KDE and GNOME both needed huge influx of corporate investment and designers to actually start to become usable, with accessibility, design, usabilities studies, polish, etc
Nov 17 01:27:06 <Robot101> note: they also stayed real OSS projects when this happened
Nov 17 01:27:14 <Robot101> but they weren't made by geeks alone
Nov 17 01:27:25 <luke-jr> xqo: last I heard, GTA04 was crap
Nov 17 01:27:46 <luke-jr> Robot101: KDE and GNOME both suck for the last few years, far worse than they used to
Nov 17 01:28:03 <Robot101> luke-jr: see previous - your criteria don't match other people's.
Nov 17 01:28:21 <luke-jr> I beg to differ
Nov 17 01:28:33 <luke-jr> "Address book doesn't work at all" I think would be a problem for most other people too
Nov 17 01:28:42 <luke-jr> ditto for "everything crashes more"
Nov 17 01:28:48 <Robot101> ubuntu has taken GNOME to millions of users now
Nov 17 01:29:01 <Robot101> the address book and "everything" doesn't crash
Nov 17 01:29:03 <luke-jr> Ubuntu has abandoned GNOME
Nov 17 01:29:12 <luke-jr> KAddressBook doesn't *work*
Nov 17 01:29:21 <luke-jr> and everything useful *does* crash too often
Nov 17 01:29:47 <Robot101> Ubuntu uses millions of lines of code from GNOME - but admittedly they have started making it worse. but this is orthogonal to my point.
Nov 17 01:30:07 <luke-jr> not sure you can get much worse than GNOME
Nov 17 01:30:14 <Robot101> these OSS projects were improved and made more popular by corporate investment which brought design, management and focused investment towards specific goals
Nov 17 01:30:16 <pabs3> luke-jr: whats crap in gta04 (apart from the fsf/wireless stupidity)?
Nov 17 01:30:24 <luke-jr> pabs3: hardware specs
Nov 17 01:30:48 <Robot101> without this, it's far less likely you will get "generally usable" popular software as a result
Nov 17 01:31:05 <pabs3> luke-jr: its an improvement on gta02, so better than nothing IMO
Nov 17 01:31:31 <M4rtinK> pabs3: IIRC the hardware should be about on Beagleboard/N900 level
Nov 17 01:32:08 <M4rtinK> + integrated navigation board (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Freerunner_Navigation_Board_v3)
Nov 17 01:32:22 <M4rtinK> with FreeRunner LCD (480*640) and case
Nov 17 01:32:52 <M4rtinK> and an optional 1.3 MPix camera
Nov 17 01:34:01 <luke-jr> pabs3: maybe, but I don't want a phone.
Nov 17 01:34:16 <luke-jr> 1.3 mpix is crap
Nov 17 01:36:33 <M4rtinK> well, to call IT a phone :)
Nov 17 01:37:14 <M4rtinK> it should be Open Hardware, go rip some camera from an Iphone and install it yourself :P
Nov 17 01:37:38 <luke-jr> …
Nov 17 01:37:52 <luke-jr> tbh, I'd prefer 12 mpix from my next handheld
Nov 17 01:37:55 <luke-jr> but no less than 8
Nov 17 02:22:25 <DocScrutinizer> tbh that'S plain insane as SpeedEvil can explain to you using basic optic physical laws
Nov 17 02:22:47 <SpeedEvil> It's not.
Nov 17 02:22:53 <SpeedEvil> It's quite possible.
Nov 17 02:23:09 <SpeedEvil> It will however mean a fairly large lens, if you want it to be a real 12MP.
Nov 17 02:23:24 <DocScrutinizer> while it's even common knowledge now that a lot of lesser-pixel cams have better picture quality than the 10+ class
Nov 17 02:23:25 <SpeedEvil> And that implies things about the depth of the camera.
Nov 17 02:24:22 <SpeedEvil> What would be awesome would be a camera that was able to maintain a sharp image when moving somewhat.
Nov 17 02:24:25 <DocScrutinizer> buzzword noise, sensitivity
Nov 17 02:24:49 <SpeedEvil> Which implies things about the sensor. 
Nov 17 02:25:06 <DocScrutinizer> and yes, I referred to a cam module to fit into an ever slimmer mobile phone
Nov 17 02:26:15 <DocScrutinizer> obviously a hasselblad 25mp is better in every aspect than a 12mp embedded module - simply because of physical size of *everything* in it
Nov 17 02:26:48 <DocScrutinizer> and you can't get reasonable 20mp in a phone as flat as N9
Nov 17 02:40:11 <M4rtinK> well, the Neo case is thick enough :)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Nov 17 02:59:57 2011