**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 24 02:59:58 2011
Nov 24 06:02:32 <psycho_oreos> time to kill my uptime on one of my N900 lol
Nov 24 06:28:28 <Macer> uptime on an n900 isn't important
Nov 24 06:28:34 <Macer> i turn mine off all the time
Nov 24 06:28:40 <Macer> to swap the battery
Nov 24 06:28:57 <Macer> i don't touch the usb port unless it is required
Nov 24 06:29:19 <Macer> like to flash it or something or if there is no more way to get power for it
Nov 24 06:32:34 <psycho_oreos> uptime isn't important on N900 but when you have a few that you don't use constantly? :)
Nov 24 06:33:08 <Macer> i suppose
Nov 24 06:33:19 <Macer> i just have 1 that i use constantly
Nov 24 07:27:19 <TTilus> Macer: why avoid touching usb?  just curious...
Nov 24 07:28:27 <Sicelo> n900 usb is its 'weak' point - prone to come off
Nov 24 07:48:58 * ruskie is still lucky that his usb port hasn't shown any signs of wear(*knock on wood*)
Nov 24 09:02:09 <psycho_oreos> it seems that its real easy to cause optfs errors for some weird reason :/
Nov 24 09:05:15 <mihu> Hi. I found maemo-examples which show nearly all aspects of N900 application development. That was a great start. However, I now want my application to be able to create these separate "message windows". For example, when the N900 is in suspend, you receive an e-mail and then the device is turned on, then you see this yellow "message window" telling you that a new mail has arrived. . How are these created? I just need some  catch words
Nov 24 09:09:11 <mihu> Ok, found it. It's in HildonNotification. I was using hildon_notification_helper_show() which would just produce these full-screen banner notifications. I have to use hildon_notification_new() and notify_notification_show() to get what I want.
Nov 24 09:30:18 <vi__> Is the size of your backup tarball related to your manhood?
Nov 24 11:08:40 <vi__> yo
Nov 24 11:08:55 <vi__> Is there a way to check if pin checking is switched on?
Nov 24 12:10:00 <chem|st> vi__: cli?
Nov 24 12:51:01 <LaoLang_cool> Hi
Nov 24 12:51:16 <LaoLang_cool> Is there a shortcut to go to the top of a list?
Nov 24 12:51:44 <LaoLang_cool> Otherwise I need to swipe and swipe many times
Nov 24 12:52:51 <chem|st> close the list and open it again^^
Nov 24 12:53:23 <chem|st> or if search is enabled you type a "one" (1)
Nov 24 12:53:32 <chem|st> or zero
Nov 24 12:54:32 <LaoLang_cool> chem|st: hmm, it's tricky, and not so immediate, because it means I need to rerun a app
Nov 24 12:55:52 <chem|st> LaoLang_cool: I know, long list are a pain, I'd like to have a touchable scrollbar...
Nov 24 12:56:44 <LaoLang_cool> chem|st: I need a shortcut :)
Nov 24 12:59:36 <vi__> chem|st: yes, cli
Nov 24 13:00:00 <vi__> chem|st: I have tried dbus sniffing and all sorts but I cannot get to the bottom of it.
Nov 24 13:00:20 <vi__> I was just wondering if perhaps somone had already addressed this one?
Nov 24 13:06:47 <chem|st> vi__: isn't it a gconf setting?
Nov 24 13:07:40 <chem|st> oh you mean the flag on the simcard...?! no idea
Nov 24 13:35:11 <vi__> chem|st: yar, simcard.  You could cut a significant time out of the bootup by moving cell modem switchon to hildon startup as oppose to waiting for it to come up BEFORE even loading hildon.  HOwever this would require that you did not want pin checking otherwise you could use the n900 (but not phone/sim) without entering pin.
Nov 24 13:35:40 <vi__> currently goes:
Nov 24 13:36:43 <vi__> boot>xorg>matchbox>5 dots>start GSM modem>ask for pin(if required)>kill 5 dots>kill matchbox>load hildon>etc
Nov 24 13:36:50 <vi__> It COULD go...
Nov 24 13:37:37 <vi__> boot>xorg>load hildon>etc AND start gsm>ask for pin (if required).
Nov 24 13:42:42 <jonwil> getting rid of 5dots might be interesting
Nov 24 14:01:47 <SpeedEvil> 5dots is running when other stuff is.
Nov 24 14:01:55 <SpeedEvil> It's not blocking or anything.
Nov 24 14:02:03 <SpeedEvil> Somewhere there was a bootgraph thing
Nov 24 14:02:13 <vi__> I have gotten riud of 5 dots
Nov 24 14:02:15 <SpeedEvil> That was integrated into busybox
Nov 24 14:02:32 <vi__> 5 dots is just so there issomthing on the screen to look at while n900 boots
Nov 24 14:02:35 <SpeedEvil> yeah
Nov 24 14:02:52 <vi__> it is even re-niced to 5
Nov 24 14:03:35 <vi__> if you edit /etc/event.d/hildon-startup-progress
Nov 24 14:03:44 <vi__> comment out everything, no more 5 dots
Nov 24 14:03:56 <vi__> in fact you can start anything you want instead of 5 dots...
Nov 24 14:04:01 <vi__> ...xterm for example
Nov 24 14:04:24 <vi__> then you have a shell for like 10 seconds till the n900 boots
Nov 24 14:04:31 <vi__> and xterm is killed
Nov 24 14:04:51 <SpeedEvil> Question is - is there anything actually productive that can be there.
Nov 24 14:05:05 <vi__> SpeedEvil: I dont think so.
Nov 24 14:05:17 <SpeedEvil> yeah
Nov 24 14:05:23 <vi__> I have considered conky to display clock and charge details 
Nov 24 14:05:35 <SpeedEvil> That's about it
Nov 24 14:05:37 <vi__> to display in that 'space' in act-dead mode
Nov 24 14:05:50 <SpeedEvil> That'd make sense.
Nov 24 14:06:01 <SpeedEvil> Some nicer indication of why it's acting dead'd be nice.
Nov 24 14:06:32 <vi__> The other idea was a button that would put phone into battery learn script
Nov 24 14:06:55 <vi__> it would fully charge, fully discharge, learn capacity, fully charge then switch on.
Nov 24 14:07:03 <SpeedEvil> Argh.
Nov 24 14:07:07 <vi__> In act dead mode
Nov 24 14:07:16 * SpeedEvil has mislaid his n900, and it won't ping.
Nov 24 14:07:26 <SpeedEvil> This means I may have to get up from the sofa to find it.
Nov 24 14:07:38 <vi__> SpeedEvil: sonovvabitch
Nov 24 14:41:17 <reenignEesreveR> anyone here who has compiled mardrone app?
Nov 24 15:12:52 <eichi> does latest CSSU update and latest power kernel updates work? any experiences?
Nov 24 15:13:29 <reenignEesreveR> i need some help regarding compiling QT app on Maemo
Nov 24 15:13:30 <reenignEesreveR> anyone?
Nov 24 15:17:42 <lardman> what happens when one performs an NTFS format on a uSD card?
Nov 24 15:18:07 <vi__> lardman: all lol breaks loose
Nov 24 15:18:17 <vi__> why the fuck would you want an NTFS sd card?
Nov 24 15:18:28 <lardman> My uSD card seemed to lose its partition table and fdisk wouldn't write to it, so I stuck it in a Windows box to try that, it performed a full format for ~10min, then decided it had failed, back in OpenSUSE laptop and the old table is back
Nov 24 15:18:42 <lardman> and the old data too
Nov 24 15:18:49 <vi__> lardman: sounds like a duff card to me
Nov 24 15:18:56 <vi__> is it new?
Nov 24 15:19:03 <lardman> nah, had it for a whilte
Nov 24 15:19:09 <vi__> How long is a while?
Nov 24 15:19:12 <vi__> months, years?
Nov 24 15:19:16 <lardman> a year perhaps
Nov 24 15:19:30 <lardman> 8Gb card, used for Meego/Ubuntu images
Nov 24 15:19:52 <vi__> have you tried completely hosing it with fdisk and starting again?
Nov 24 15:19:59 <vi__> I think you should
Nov 24 15:20:22 <lardman> well as my data seems to be intact now....
Nov 24 15:21:32 <merlin1991> reenignEesreveR: what help?
Nov 24 15:24:04 <lardman> might be worth backing up the partition mind you, do I need to feed tar any extra switches to save ownership, etc.?
Nov 24 15:26:33 <reenignEesreveR> merlin1991, need to compile an app (called mardrone)
Nov 24 15:26:37 <reenignEesreveR> it uses qt
Nov 24 15:26:49 <reenignEesreveR> i've setup almost everything as documentation says (although i don't udnerstand most of it)
Nov 24 15:26:58 <merlin1991> so you've got a scratchbox?
Nov 24 15:27:31 <reenignEesreveR> yeah, but when i do /scratchbox/login
Nov 24 15:27:34 <reenignEesreveR> it says permission denied
Nov 24 15:27:50 <merlin1991> did you run the installer properly with $USER?
Nov 24 15:27:56 <reenignEesreveR> and if i compile otherwise, i get this: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lQtComponents
Nov 24 15:27:59 <vi__> lardman: well save your data ASAP and fdisk that mutha.
Nov 24 15:28:18 <vi__> reenignEesreveR: sounds like you are missing some QT librarys
Nov 24 15:28:19 <reenignEesreveR> merlin1991, i don't know what is meant by that
Nov 24 15:28:37 <reenignEesreveR> vi__, i'm pretty positive that I've installed everything i could find on net
Nov 24 15:28:41 * merlin1991 boots scratchboxlaptop
Nov 24 15:28:57 <vi__> well, ld is domthing to do with indexing your libraries
Nov 24 15:29:11 <vi__> alas I do not really lnow though.
Nov 24 15:29:17 <merlin1991> vi__: he isn't even in side scratchbox
Nov 24 15:29:26 <reenignEesreveR> yeah, im not in scratchbox
Nov 24 15:29:34 <reenignEesreveR> prolly my program is just compiling under x86
Nov 24 15:29:37 <merlin1991> yes
Nov 24 15:29:40 <reenignEesreveR> how do i fix my sctratchbox?
Nov 24 15:29:54 <merlin1991> I'll help you in a sec
Nov 24 15:30:01 <merlin1991> need to boot my scratchbox installation
Nov 24 15:31:30 <merlin1991> reenignEesreveR: what do you get with `ls /scratchbox/users/`
Nov 24 15:32:20 <reenignEesreveR> merlin1991, nothing
Nov 24 15:32:46 <merlin1991> okay then
Nov 24 15:33:04 <reenignEesreveR> aah, i think i missed this then: sudo /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser <username>
Nov 24 15:33:12 <merlin1991> yep :D
Nov 24 15:33:17 <reenignEesreveR> still not working :D
Nov 24 15:33:25 <merlin1991> do you see the user dir now?
Nov 24 15:33:29 <reenignEesreveR> yup
Nov 24 15:33:34 <reenignEesreveR> but still permission denied message
Nov 24 15:34:11 <merlin1991> did you put the yes in the end of sbox_adduser too?
Nov 24 15:34:38 <reenignEesreveR> nope
Nov 24 15:34:49 <merlin1991> then you need to add yourself to the sbox group
Nov 24 15:35:11 <reenignEesreveR> could you tell me the command for that?
Nov 24 15:35:37 <reenignEesreveR> *sigh*
Nov 24 15:35:58 <reenignEesreveR> The user `sha' is already a member of `sbox'
Nov 24 15:36:17 <reenignEesreveR> do i neeed to reboot? :P
Nov 24 15:36:19 <merlin1991> ah then do newgrp sbox
Nov 24 15:36:26 <merlin1991> and try again the scratchbox login
Nov 24 15:37:21 <reenignEesreveR> what does newgrp do?
Nov 24 15:38:24 <merlin1991> the group isn't in effect untill you reboot, newgrp sets your group id for that session
Nov 24 15:38:41 <reenignEesreveR> ok
Nov 24 15:38:50 <reenignEesreveR> ok now scratchbox has worked
Nov 24 15:39:09 <reenignEesreveR> now how do i compile my program with scratchbox?
Nov 24 15:39:16 <merlin1991> wich guide did you follow to install scratchbox?
Nov 24 15:39:30 <reenignEesreveR> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation#Installing_Maemo_5_SDK_using_Text-based_Installer
Nov 24 15:39:45 <reenignEesreveR> oh $#!t
Nov 24 15:39:49 <merlin1991> ?
Nov 24 15:39:50 <reenignEesreveR> i missed a few things else as well
Nov 24 15:40:05 <merlin1991> did you install the rootstraps?
Nov 24 15:41:30 <reenignEesreveR> i previously did using maemo5-sdk
Nov 24 15:41:37 <reenignEesreveR> do i need to redo now after scratchbox stuff?
Nov 24 15:42:56 <merlin1991> what does sb-conf ls -T in scratchbox say?
Nov 24 15:43:50 <reenignEesreveR> nothing :(
Nov 24 15:44:35 <merlin1991> then do everything the guide says starting from step 9
Nov 24 15:47:55 <reenignEesreveR> merlin1991, my targets directory in scratchbox doesn't contain anything except "links" directory
Nov 24 15:48:51 <merlin1991> you can either follow the guide from the step where you have to run ./maemo-sdk-install_5.0.sh
Nov 24 15:49:14 <reenignEesreveR> although i've followed it before
Nov 24 15:49:19 <reenignEesreveR> but lemme redo before i ping you again
Nov 24 15:49:23 <merlin1991> or start with the log in to scratchbox step @ http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation#On_x86_and_x86_64_Debian-based_systems
Nov 24 15:49:45 <merlin1991> the thing is the install script couldn't perform properly due to the scratchbox user missing
Nov 24 15:51:29 <reenignEesreveR> i'm getting this error while running the maemo sdk install script in step 9: E: Scratchbox login found but not executable by user.
Nov 24 15:51:37 <reenignEesreveR> E: Please check that user is member of the group specified in scratchbox
Nov 24 15:52:01 <reenignEesreveR> do i need to reboot?
Nov 24 15:52:14 <merlin1991> yeah do a reboot
Nov 24 15:52:21 <reenignEesreveR> see ya
Nov 24 15:53:27 * merlin1991 wants a rasperry pi
Nov 24 16:00:05 <reenignEesreveR> merlin1991, reboot helped. now im getting this error: E: Scratchbox devkit debian-etch not found.
Nov 24 16:00:33 <merlin1991> arf
Nov 24 16:00:38 <merlin1991> that installer is so out of date
Nov 24 16:00:50 <merlin1991> it's devkit debian-squeeze by now :/
Nov 24 16:01:05 <reenignEesreveR> oh
Nov 24 16:01:09 <reenignEesreveR> i think i needed a sed
Nov 24 16:01:15 <merlin1991> trash the installer (keep what you installed though) and follow http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation#On_x86_and_x86_64_Debian-based_systems
Nov 24 16:01:24 <merlin1991> start where it says log in to scratchbox
Nov 24 16:02:05 <merlin1991> you'll be doing exactly what the text installer "should" do for you :D
Nov 24 16:03:37 <reenignEesreveR> i'll be needing some help with this line "Copy the sources.list entry given to you after the license acceptance to your Scratchbox x86 and armel target’s /etc/apt/sources.list file"
Nov 24 16:03:57 <reenignEesreveR> i dont have working /etc in scratchbox
Nov 24 16:04:08 <reenignEesreveR> bash: cd: /etc: No such file or directory
Nov 24 16:04:28 <reenignEesreveR> basically /target/links directory is empty
Nov 24 16:04:34 <merlin1991> did you dl the minimal bootstraps?
Nov 24 16:05:05 <reenignEesreveR> im not sure about that
Nov 24 16:05:23 <reenignEesreveR> oh
Nov 24 16:05:30 <reenignEesreveR> you are talking about the manual installtion part?
Nov 24 16:05:43 <merlin1991> yep
Nov 24 16:05:47 <merlin1991> you'll need todo that one
Nov 24 16:06:07 <merlin1991> starting with login to scratchbox followed by configure the targets
Nov 24 16:06:31 <merlin1991> because the script that should dl the targets rootstrap and set them up for you didn't run
Nov 24 16:07:29 <reenignEesreveR> :(
Nov 24 16:07:30 <reenignEesreveR> sb-conf: No such devkit: debian-etch
Nov 24 16:08:02 <merlin1991> uh oh
Nov 24 16:08:13 <merlin1991> lemme see something
Nov 24 16:08:18 <reenignEesreveR> debian-etch to be replaced with debian-squeeze everywhere?
Nov 24 16:09:10 <merlin1991> yeah
Nov 24 16:09:44 <reenignEesreveR> quite some hacker friendly documentation maemo has now!
Nov 24 16:09:50 <merlin1991> :D
Nov 24 16:09:52 <luke-jr> ?
Nov 24 16:10:05 <merlin1991> luke-jr: the final sdk installation page is slightly out of date .D
Nov 24 16:10:07 <reenignEesreveR> :)
Nov 24 16:10:15 <luke-jr> reenignEesreveR: you realize Maemo is dead as a doorknob, right?
Nov 24 16:10:23 <merlin1991> reenignEesreveR: although it still links you to this channel ;)
Nov 24 16:10:43 <reenignEesreveR> i can't seem to accept the fact that maemo is dead
Nov 24 16:10:49 <reenignEesreveR> im in love with it
Nov 24 16:10:58 <reenignEesreveR> its the best mobile UI i've ever seen
Nov 24 16:11:04 <reenignEesreveR> fantastic multitasking
Nov 24 16:11:29 <reenignEesreveR> disclaimer: I haven't had a chance to play around with meego
Nov 24 16:11:50 <vi__> disclaimer: meego sucks monkeys nuts
Nov 24 16:11:52 <luke-jr> ^
Nov 24 16:12:00 * luke-jr runs Gentoo
Nov 24 16:12:06 <merlin1991> disclaimer harmattan on the other hand has awesome ui
Nov 24 16:12:24 <reenignEesreveR> merlin1991, you run harmattan?
Nov 24 16:12:30 <merlin1991> on my n9 :D
Nov 24 16:12:32 <vi__> awesome if you are a paraplegic mong who cannot use a real keyboard
Nov 24 16:12:49 <luke-jr> N9 is a joke
Nov 24 16:12:53 <merlin1991> vi__: harmattan as a phone os is awesome
Nov 24 16:12:57 <luke-jr> and insult
Nov 24 16:13:00 <merlin1991> it simply is not a linux gadget
Nov 24 16:13:05 <vi__> They sacrifice so much function just so they can have no buttons.
Nov 24 16:13:05 <merlin1991> it's a phone
Nov 24 16:13:16 <vi__> how much herp can nokia derp?
Nov 24 16:13:22 <reenignEesreveR> you can't run harmattan on n900 yet, right?
Nov 24 16:13:26 <luke-jr> reenignEesreveR: never
Nov 24 16:13:57 <luke-jr> reenignEesreveR: the only thing that supports N900 now is Gentoo I think :P
Nov 24 16:14:47 <luke-jr> anyhow, Harmattan/N9 is super-closed
Nov 24 16:15:00 <vi__> luke? lol wut, you care to qualify that staement?
Nov 24 16:15:38 <luke-jr> vi___: ever hear of DRM?
Nov 24 16:16:03 <vi__> what?
Nov 24 16:16:06 <reenignEesreveR> merlin1991, thanks for all the help. Its going to take some while in downloading. I'll get a break now.
Nov 24 16:16:12 <vi__> everyone knows harmattan is fucking super gay
Nov 24 16:16:13 <merlin1991> :)
Nov 24 16:16:15 <luke-jr> N9 is like iPhone, minus the ability to jailbreak it
Nov 24 16:16:17 <vi__> I wanna know about gentoo
Nov 24 16:16:26 <luke-jr> o
Nov 24 16:16:30 <luke-jr> what about it
Nov 24 16:16:48 <vi__> is all the hardware supported?
Nov 24 16:16:54 <luke-jr> dunno yet.
Nov 24 16:17:05 <luke-jr> need to see if ofono 1.0 works with phone calls
Nov 24 16:17:19 <luke-jr> PowerVR sure isn't.
Nov 24 16:17:47 <vi__> There was a guy who was creating a hildon front end for meego n900 hardware adaptation.
Nov 24 16:17:51 <vi__> But he was a boner
Nov 24 16:17:52 <luke-jr> I haven't booted to Gentoo in over a year now.
Nov 24 16:18:00 <luke-jr> going through the usual upgrades
Nov 24 16:18:19 <Jooles> Soon as I've got an SD card I'm gonna be trying gentoo on my n810
Nov 24 16:18:32 <luke-jr> Jooles: good luck >_<
Nov 24 16:18:46 <luke-jr> also, N810 doesn't have a SD slot.
Nov 24 16:18:59 <Jooles> Yeah but typing miniSD is so much more work
Nov 24 16:19:14 <luke-jr> :P
Nov 24 16:19:22 <luke-jr> uSD is short
Nov 24 16:19:32 <Jooles> Yeah but that's micro not mini
Nov 24 16:21:37 <luke-jr> Jooles: nobody makes mini :P
Nov 24 16:21:42 <luke-jr> just uSD + adapter
Nov 24 16:22:36 <Jooles> That's why I can get a 4GB one for Ł1
Nov 24 16:22:57 <Jooles> But yeah, I'm gonna get a micro & adapter. Much easier that way
Nov 24 16:24:43 <Jooles> ]Plus if I get one with a mini to SD adapter too, I can just whack it in my desktop card reader and cross compile the larger apps much more easily
Nov 24 16:26:35 <orbiting> I was annoyed with the n810 lack of a second slot until I realized I could sandwich in 6x16GB microSDHC cards in the back panel.  next to the battery.
Nov 24 16:26:57 <orbiting> Sure you have to switch cards, but it's good to be able to carry everything.
Nov 24 16:27:37 <Jooles> Yeah, it's nice and roomy
Nov 24 16:35:45 <Macer> alrighty!
Nov 24 16:35:51 <orbiting> I just remembered why I logged into the channel. Has anyone seen Skype turn greyscale? Skype is fine on my n810, but my two n800s have turned black and white....
Nov 24 16:35:55 <Macer> wonder if comcast is open
Nov 24 16:36:23 <orbiting> Skype still works, it's just ugly and a little bit of guessing is required to use the UI now.
Nov 24 16:46:32 <luke-jr> Jooles: 4 GB isn't enough
Nov 24 16:54:40 <vi__> I have a desk spider
Nov 24 16:55:07 <vi__> He abseiled in from the ceiling and is now constructing a web on my desk lamp
Nov 24 16:55:15 <vi__> about 2 feet from my face
Nov 24 16:55:25 <vi__> fascinating
Nov 24 16:55:41 <luke-jr> just tell him to stay out of your way
Nov 24 16:55:42 <luke-jr> :p
Nov 24 16:56:02 <luke-jr> >>> Emerging (16 of 90) dev-libs/libxml2-2.7.8-r3
Nov 24 16:58:12 <vi__> he is now my pet
Nov 24 16:58:21 <vi__> called ponzi
Nov 24 16:58:28 <vi__> after the UK pension scheme
Nov 24 17:16:23 <fff> hi
Nov 24 17:26:47 <Jooles> luke-jr why not? Keep the portage tree on my desktop, mount it via nfs when needed. My image at the moment is only 1.8GB
Nov 24 17:27:57 <luke-jr> portage tree isn't too big
Nov 24 17:29:51 <slonopotamus> luke-jr: fresh blood?
Nov 24 17:30:14 <Jooles> Hi slonopotamus. Yep.
Nov 24 17:30:17 <luke-jr> slonopotamus: why do you keep forking? :P
Nov 24 17:30:18 * DocScrutinizer waves to Ponzi
Nov 24 17:30:34 <Jooles> I'm gonna gentoo up my n810 once I've got an SD card for it.
Nov 24 17:31:29 <slonopotamus> luke-jr: gitorious doesn't have wiki :-/
Nov 24 17:31:40 <luke-jr> slonopotamus: true, but immaterial :p
Nov 24 17:32:30 <luke-jr> slonopotamus: what happened to your wiki?
Nov 24 17:33:54 <slonopotamus> luke-jr: it ain't as stable as i would like it to be :) also, git{hub,orious} provide other nice services that i have no desire to run
Nov 24 17:33:55 <DocScrutinizer> vi__: I don't give names to my spider pets - I'd feel bad when I have to throw them outa the window into the cold winter and whisper "have a good time, Jimmy"
Nov 24 17:34:18 <luke-jr> slonopotamus: elinux.org ?
Nov 24 17:34:21 <slonopotamus> luke-jr: i moved all content and set up a permanent redirect
Nov 24 17:34:22 <luke-jr> <.<
Nov 24 17:43:13 <Jooles> so luke-jr, what size would you recommend as a minimum?
Nov 24 17:44:25 <luke-jr> Jooles: 8 GB
Nov 24 17:45:45 <slonopotamus> luke-jr: merged your changes but i'll remove dependency on nonexistent stlc45{5,6}0-firmware :P
Nov 24 17:46:38 <luke-jr> slonopotamus: noooooo
Nov 24 17:46:47 <slonopotamus> and requiring me to specify USE=p54prism is crap
Nov 24 17:46:48 <luke-jr> stop forcing people who have it to get the alternative
Nov 24 17:47:12 <luke-jr> slonopotamus: what, it's supposed to guess? :P
Nov 24 17:47:33 <slonopotamus> luke-jr: no, it's just not its business.
Nov 24 17:47:40 <luke-jr> could always make p54prism default to enabled
Nov 24 17:47:46 <luke-jr> slonopotamus: yes it is…
Nov 24 17:47:58 <luke-jr> n8x0env's only purpose is to pull in dependencies
Nov 24 17:48:00 <slonopotamus> point of n8x0-env is to simplify make.conf/world file.
Nov 24 17:48:06 <luke-jr> and make sure your system is sane for the USE flags
Nov 24 17:48:15 <slonopotamus> and in case of p54prism it only complicates.
Nov 24 17:48:31 <luke-jr> to satisfy the wifi USE flag means it needs to make sure you have a wifi driver :p
Nov 24 17:49:03 <slonopotamus> i have a right to shoot myself in a leg, damnit :P
Nov 24 17:49:16 <luke-jr> slonopotamus: how about if neither cx3110x nor stlc45xx are USEd, check that there's a p54prism kernel with it configured as an option? ;)
Nov 24 17:49:28 <luke-jr> slonopotamus: USE=-wifi lets you shoot yourself
Nov 24 17:49:47 <slonopotamus> luke-jr: that's a much better solution
Nov 24 17:50:09 <slonopotamus> (though it can't reliably check it)
Nov 24 17:50:52 <luke-jr> but srsly, if I have net-wireless/stlc4560-firmware, don't force me to install net-wireless/nokia-n8x0-firmware
Nov 24 17:51:01 <luke-jr> slonopotamus: sure it can. there's an eclass for it
Nov 24 17:51:51 <slonopotamus> luke-jr: something needs to be done to nokia-n8x0-firmware because on 3.1 kernel i run without initfs so symlinks do not work
Nov 24 17:52:29 <luke-jr> slonopotamus: or provide the stlc4550-firmware pkg
Nov 24 17:52:35 <slonopotamus> (besides, openwrt jffs driver is a bit broken so initfs directory structure is messed up)
Nov 24 17:52:47 <slonopotamus> luke-jr: meh, provide it if you have one
Nov 24 17:53:35 <slonopotamus> luke-jr: afaik,none from http://linuxwireless.org/en/users/Drivers/p54 worked for you
Nov 24 17:53:47 <slonopotamus> err, from http://daemonizer.de/prism54/prism54-fw/
Nov 24 17:54:13 <luke-jr> those are only 4560
Nov 24 17:54:37 <slonopotamus> yep, that's why they didn't work :P
Nov 24 17:54:56 <luke-jr> never tried the last one from 2008
Nov 24 17:56:38 * slonopotamus wonders what's the license for 3826.arm? standard maemo eula?
Nov 24 17:56:52 <luke-jr> got yours booted? :P
Nov 24 17:57:25 <slonopotamus> luke-jr: what got?
Nov 24 17:57:31 <luke-jr> N8x0
Nov 24 17:57:33 <luke-jr> mine is in the car
Nov 24 17:57:35 <luke-jr> off
Nov 24 17:58:00 <slonopotamus> i'm talking about maemo firmware from initfs.
Nov 24 17:58:05 <luke-jr> I know
Nov 24 17:58:15 <luke-jr> it's also in dpkg, right?
Nov 24 17:58:31 <slonopotamus> ah, yep, mine is on currently
Nov 24 17:58:39 <RST38h> EHLO slono
Nov 24 17:58:45 <slonopotamus> no, initfs in only distributed in flashable image
Nov 24 17:59:01 <slonopotamus> RST38h: preved medved
Nov 24 18:01:43 <slonopotamus> ~ping
Nov 24 18:01:44 <infobot> ~pong
Nov 24 18:02:10 <slonopotamus> infobot: at least someone talks to me
Nov 24 18:03:04 <luke-jr> http://lekernel.net/prism54/freemac.html looks interesting
Nov 24 18:04:07 <slonopotamus> scary
Nov 24 18:06:15 <jacktheripper> I couldn't execute a cross-compiled (from x64) ARM binary on my N900. I used gcc-arm-linux-gnueabi instead of scratchbox (since it's huge and I just needed a compiler).
Nov 24 18:06:31 <jacktheripper> gives me "line 1: syntax error: word unexpected (expecting ")")"
Nov 24 18:06:37 <jacktheripper> does anybody have any idea what's wrong ?
Nov 24 18:07:17 <slonopotamus> check if it is really arm binary by running `file` on it
Nov 24 18:07:20 <jacktheripper> 'file' on the binary gives me "ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.16, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped"
Nov 24 18:07:27 <jacktheripper> ^ lol there
Nov 24 18:07:43 <jacktheripper> which looks almost exactly as file on /bin/busybox
Nov 24 18:08:18 <jacktheripper> no missing libs (tried ldd)
Nov 24 18:08:35 <luke-jr> jacktheripper: something more subtle going on there
Nov 24 18:08:47 <luke-jr> jacktheripper: what does your binary do?
Nov 24 18:08:49 <jacktheripper> it's x264
Nov 24 18:09:20 <Jooles> Missing libs is pretty obvious..
Nov 24 18:10:03 <jacktheripper> ./configure ignores --enable-static. And ldd shows me no errors
Nov 24 18:10:39 <slonopotamus> maybe you binary runs successfully then? :)
Nov 24 18:10:45 <slonopotamus> and prints line you gave
Nov 24 18:10:52 <luke-jr> ^  most likely
Nov 24 18:11:11 <luke-jr> slonopotamus: btw, ever find a Portage replacement that runs at a reasonable speed?
Nov 24 18:11:14 <jacktheripper> heh not really. I've seen the line before with missing libs
Nov 24 18:11:21 <slonopotamus> luke-jr: writing one
Nov 24 18:11:22 <jacktheripper> it's probably the shell thinking it's a script
Nov 24 18:11:31 <luke-jr> slonopotamus: lol?
Nov 24 18:12:00 <luke-jr> jacktheripper: shells don't think it's a script unless you try to run it wrong
Nov 24 18:12:14 <slonopotamus> jacktheripper: ok, how you run it?
Nov 24 18:12:43 <jacktheripper> ./x264
Nov 24 18:12:54 <jacktheripper> permissions are all right, and I'm root
Nov 24 18:12:56 <slonopotamus> well, you can gdb it
Nov 24 18:12:56 <luke-jr> sure you didn't do: . x264
Nov 24 18:13:10 <jacktheripper> yep. There's ./checkasm too
Nov 24 18:14:11 <jacktheripper> getting gdb
Nov 24 18:14:28 * luke-jr pulls the "only Gentoo supported" card
Nov 24 18:14:57 * slonopotamus fails to get luke-jr joke
Nov 24 18:15:07 <luke-jr> not a joke. :p
Nov 24 18:15:22 <inz> Sounds more like brain damage
Nov 24 18:15:59 <slonopotamus> inz: sounds like all the rest of this channel is even less maemo related.
Nov 24 18:16:18 <slonopotamus> :P
Nov 24 18:16:27 <inz> maemo is dead. long live the offtopic
Nov 24 18:17:56 <luke-jr> ^
Nov 24 18:18:32 <luke-jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/gentoo-n900/
Nov 24 18:19:11 <inz> If it can be done doesn't always mean you should.
Nov 24 18:19:42 <luke-jr> I should.
Nov 24 18:19:44 <Jooles> Why not?
Nov 24 18:20:08 <luke-jr> far easier than messing with cross-compiling bs
Nov 24 18:21:06 <slonopotamus> cross-compiling doesn't work, yep (mostly due to autotools crap).
Nov 24 18:23:05 <jacktheripper> gdb is useless :/. "Program exited with code 02"
Nov 24 18:24:13 <Jooles> Code 2? That's unusual
Nov 24 18:24:40 <Jooles> Google reckons that means "Misuse of shell builtins (according to Bash documentation)"
Nov 24 18:25:15 <vi____> yo
Nov 24 18:25:25 <luke-jr> jacktheripper: step.
Nov 24 18:25:41 <vi____> Can someone suggest me a linux distro to load onto my laptop?
Nov 24 18:25:42 <luke-jr> sounds like it's using system() and expecting BASH
Nov 24 18:25:45 <vi____> I am a debian guy
Nov 24 18:25:49 <luke-jr> vi____: Gentoo on N900
Nov 24 18:25:53 <vi____> lols
Nov 24 18:25:53 <Jooles> vi____: Gentoo :)
Nov 24 18:26:12 <vi____> I want one that will load into ram and run exclusivley from there
Nov 24 18:26:27 <vi____> I am running knoppix from ram at the mo but it sucks balls
Nov 24 18:26:29 <Jooles> DSL then?
Nov 24 18:26:37 <vi____> DSL is totally dead
Nov 24 18:27:10 <jacktheripper> luke-jr, not a gdb pro here. Not sure how to 'step' before I 'start'. And start terminates the prog
Nov 24 18:27:14 <vi____> development hath ceased
Nov 24 18:27:29 <Jooles> Uhh.. slack might go pretty small still. I think zipslack is dead but slack itself could be made small still
Nov 24 18:27:39 <Jooles> I think..
Nov 24 18:27:42 <vi____> knoppix does nto even come with an IRC client
Nov 24 18:27:52 <vi____> and has these retarded startup sounds
Nov 24 18:27:57 <Macer> why not nslu2?
Nov 24 18:28:10 <vi____> klause spunked all the space on a full fat openoffice
Nov 24 18:28:15 <Jooles> But how else will you know if your system is starting?#
Nov 24 18:28:16 <vi____> nslu2?
Nov 24 18:28:23 <luke-jr> vi____: Gentoo on N900
Nov 24 18:28:39 <luke-jr> trumee:  Gentoo on N900
Nov 24 18:28:46 <Macer> http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Main/HomePage
Nov 24 18:28:58 <vi____> Well I certainly dont need a synthesised woman voice announcing at full volume 'startup sequance initiated!'
Nov 24 18:29:12 <vi____> like it is some kind of miracel
Nov 24 18:29:21 <vi____> this is not 1998 anymore
Nov 24 18:29:23 <Jooles> Maybe that's the hollywood version...
Nov 24 18:29:39 <Jooles> "THIS COMPUTER IS RUNNING LINUX, LOOK!!!11!"
Nov 24 18:29:45 <vi____> then there is all this knoppix addriane horse shit
Nov 24 18:29:52 <Macer> haha
Nov 24 18:29:57 <vi____> linux for blind people, WOOT!
Nov 24 18:29:59 <vi____> -_-
Nov 24 18:30:07 <vi____> you have fallen so far klause
Nov 24 18:30:27 <Macer> linux for blind people was neat
Nov 24 18:30:37 <Macer> i ran into a blind linux user before.. it was interesting to see it work
Nov 24 18:30:44 * RST38h wonders if he should start setting /ignores
Nov 24 18:30:46 <vi____> actually he ran into you
Nov 24 18:30:49 <vi____> didnt see it coming
Nov 24 18:30:56 <Macer> no way. super hearing ;)
Nov 24 18:31:04 <Macer> he knew exactly where i was without the stick
Nov 24 18:31:32 <vi____> you hit him with a stick?
Nov 24 18:31:35 <Macer> he had synthesizers in the PCs tho.. which i thought odd considering that in 1997 or so you probably didn't need them
Nov 24 18:31:48 <Macer> the windows one was pretty funny
Nov 24 18:32:08 <Macer> hearin hawking go "OK... CANCEL... OK... CANCEL..... BLACK HOLE"
Nov 24 18:32:13 <vi____> nslu2 is a dd-wrt firmware?
Nov 24 18:32:24 <Macer> it is an embedded firmware i suppose
Nov 24 18:32:36 <Macer> but then again i suppose so is maemo
Nov 24 18:32:43 <Macer> so i doubt it would do much good :)
Nov 24 18:32:50 <vi____> ?
Nov 24 18:32:55 <vi____> I want a linux distro for my laptop
Nov 24 18:33:00 <Macer> typical embedded busybox stuff
Nov 24 18:33:03 <vi____> that will so the boot from ram thing
Nov 24 18:33:06 <Macer> oh.. i thought you wanted it for the n900
Nov 24 18:33:20 <Macer> like luke-jr with his lame ass gentoo for n900 :)
Nov 24 18:33:22 <vi____> lol no, maemo 5 is made of win
Nov 24 18:33:26 * Macer hides
Nov 24 18:33:54 <Macer> oh
Nov 24 18:34:01 <Macer> then maybe you should look at it
Nov 24 18:34:05 <Macer> it's pretty "small" 
Nov 24 18:34:20 <vi____> get calling + sim services + hildon + decent pda appz then id be cool with n900 gentoo
Nov 24 18:34:50 <slonopotamus> (Macer pretends to laugh at gentoo because he failed to setup one (though was given a detaied instruction) and wants to look like as if it is gentoo fault and not his)
Nov 24 18:34:53 <Macer> haha... they haven't even done that in maemo.. let alone gentoo :)
Nov 24 18:35:04 <Macer> slonopotamus: er.. huh?
Nov 24 18:35:09 <Macer> i had it running on my n810 
Nov 24 18:35:17 <vi____> I tried to set up gentoo once
Nov 24 18:35:29 <Macer> i used gentoo for quite a while on PCs too
Nov 24 18:35:30 <vi____> I gave up and went with freebsd instead
Nov 24 18:35:39 <vi____> I was less hard
Nov 24 18:35:41 <Macer> but realized that it was easier to use something else
Nov 24 18:35:48 <vi____> Macer: +1
Nov 24 18:35:50 <Macer> and not wait 10 years to build
Nov 24 18:36:05 <Macer> although i guess gentoo came off the src fanclub and has bin repos nowadays
Nov 24 18:36:10 <vi____> gentoo pushes computing from productivity tool into the realm of hobby
Nov 24 18:36:18 <Macer> agreed
Nov 24 18:36:37 <Macer> personally i think the point of emerge is to seem intelligent with all the scrolling gcc stuff 
Nov 24 18:36:46 <slonopotamus> it's not gentoo fault that software is so bloated today (openoffice, ff, kde, etc)
Nov 24 18:36:53 <vi____> I do like scrolling text
Nov 24 18:37:04 <Macer> stay in the office reading a book while yu have 3 terms doing that and people think you're doing something serios
Nov 24 18:37:10 <Macer> not just "emerge kde"
Nov 24 18:37:16 <Macer> which takes 3 years :)
Nov 24 18:37:43 <vi____> these days just give me a debian box
Nov 24 18:37:49 <vi____> and we will say no more
Nov 24 18:38:08 <Macer> yeah.. ubuntu server is actually not too bad.. and i was reluctant to jump on the ubuntu bandwagon
Nov 24 18:38:19 <vi____> Macer: lol, u trollin bro?
Nov 24 18:38:24 <Macer> although i do like kubuntu.. bt only because i like kde
Nov 24 18:38:39 <slonopotamus> ubuntu server is actually same as debian (from gentoo POV)
Nov 24 18:38:40 <Macer> trolling? no. i started using ubuntu server a while back
Nov 24 18:38:50 <Macer> slonopotamus: i suppose 
Nov 24 18:39:06 <Macer> in a sense.. but i wouldn't consider them the same thing
Nov 24 18:39:08 <vi____> Macer: I really like johnny cash's hurt.  NIN nails cover of it was just shit.
Nov 24 18:39:09 <Macer> like rhel and centos
Nov 24 18:39:21 <Macer> vi____: lol
Nov 24 18:39:34 <slonopotamus> w/e, stop going offtopic
Nov 24 18:39:42 <vi____> what is the topic?
Nov 24 18:39:56 <vi____> not harmattan?
Nov 24 18:40:00 <slonopotamus> i got fcking n800 led working with 3.1 kernel a couple of days ago! :P
Nov 24 18:40:08 <vi____> ~topic
Nov 24 18:40:11 <Macer> gentoo or something?
Nov 24 18:40:20 <SpeedEvil> slonopotamus: :)
Nov 24 18:40:26 <Macer> slonopotamus: i might put gentoo on my n810 soon
Nov 24 18:40:35 <slonopotamus> infobot: topic is gentoo
Nov 24 18:40:35 <vi____> slonopotamus: bad. ass.
Nov 24 18:40:39 <Macer> but then again i think i was going to leave it at work as a glorified fm radio/mp3 player
Nov 24 18:40:51 <Macer> canola ftw
Nov 24 18:41:08 <vi____> Macer: the oriny being it is not particuarly great at either
Nov 24 18:41:15 <vi____> ^irony
Nov 24 18:41:32 <Macer> it can handle mp3s and fm radio stuff. oh wait.. it didn't have a tuner did it?
Nov 24 18:41:45 <Macer> why do i keep thinking the n8x0 had an fm tuner? :)
Nov 24 18:42:04 <slonopotamus> because n800 has one
Nov 24 18:42:14 <Macer> i actually don't use it anymore becaue it took a 1 story dive and the sliding traks broke
Nov 24 18:42:15 <vi____> Is the n900 dying from n9 as fast as the n8x0 died when the n900 came along?
Nov 24 18:42:18 <Macer> they get caught
Nov 24 18:42:24 <Macer> lol. no
Nov 24 18:42:33 <Macer> mostly because the n9 costs a child's soul
Nov 24 18:42:43 <Macer> slonopotamus: ah that's what it is
Nov 24 18:42:48 <Macer> i forgot they took it out of the n810
Nov 24 18:42:48 <slonopotamus> vi____: n900 users don't give a shit about n9. because n9 is even more dead-born than n900.
Nov 24 18:42:53 <Macer> i had an n800 as well
Nov 24 18:43:04 <slonopotamus> Macer: current gentoo userspace doesn't work with diablo kernel (that's why efforts to make 3.1 work on n8x0 are done)
Nov 24 18:43:28 <Macer> slonopotamus: i hear meego is actually pretty nice tho
Nov 24 18:43:40 <Macer> a true linux type version of ios :)
Nov 24 18:43:49 * Macer hides again
Nov 24 18:43:53 <vi____> derp
Nov 24 18:43:53 <slonopotamus> meego is dead
Nov 24 18:43:57 <Macer> seriously tho... from what i've heard it is not bad
Nov 24 18:44:05 <vi____> what happened to the n900 meego ce?
Nov 24 18:44:06 <Macer> but then again.. neither was webos and see how far that got?
Nov 24 18:44:07 <vi____> and mer?
Nov 24 18:44:14 <Macer> vi____: mer died with meego
Nov 24 18:44:17 <Macer> meego died just because
Nov 24 18:44:22 <slonopotamus> mer doesn't target end users
Nov 24 18:44:36 <vi____> then what use is it?
Nov 24 18:44:40 <Macer> meego is to n900 as mer is to n810
Nov 24 18:44:45 <slonopotamus> they provide a stage3-like environment and think they're important.
Nov 24 18:44:47 <Macer> make sense? :)
Nov 24 18:45:35 <Macer> slonopotamus: still tho. i hear meego is pretty nice on the n9.. i can't speak from personal experience tho so i don't know
Nov 24 18:45:42 <Macer> looks nice in video demos ;)
Nov 24 18:45:49 <vi____> I wish maemo 5 was actually RAW debian.
Nov 24 18:45:49 <slonopotamus> Macer: harmattan != meego
Nov 24 18:45:54 <jacktheripper> much better than it looks
Nov 24 18:45:55 <vi____> lol, there is no meego on n9
Nov 24 18:46:04 <Macer> the n9 hardware at least is a lot smoother than the n900 of course
Nov 24 18:46:22 <Macer> slonopotamus: that is a "linux is just a kernel" argument ;)
Nov 24 18:46:25 <slonopotamus> vi____: that was too simple. nokia linux guys are obsessed with forking and patching every piece of software they touch.
Nov 24 18:47:00 <vi____> And ignoring/disapointing their fan/user base.
Nov 24 18:47:20 <slonopotamus> Macer: there was no working alternative when linux appeared, i fail to see how your example relates.
Nov 24 18:47:50 <Macer> nm
Nov 24 18:47:58 <vi____> help topic
Nov 24 18:48:05 <vi____> ~help topic
Nov 24 18:48:21 <slonopotamus> Macer: and wtr mer, you get exactly the same by installing minimal <your-distro> chroot
Nov 24 18:48:39 <Macer> slonopotamus: i noticed
Nov 24 18:48:47 <Macer> but they did make a nice boot animation :)
Nov 24 18:49:05 <slonopotamus> Macer: do you talk about pre- or post- meego mer?
Nov 24 18:49:24 <Macer> pre
Nov 24 18:49:36 <slonopotamus> pre-meego mer was dead even before meego
Nov 24 18:49:37 <Macer> which i would guess is the same as post ;)
Nov 24 18:50:19 <slonopotamus> post-meego mer is another thing. it is a minimal system without any GUI, without any hw-specific, just a base set of packages.
Nov 24 18:50:32 <vi____> how much many meego does it take to change a lightbulb?
Nov 24 18:50:56 <slonopotamus> drj_cro failed to stay on topic
Nov 24 18:51:30 * slonopotamus gone to get some food
Nov 24 18:51:40 <Macer> gone to get some food?
Nov 24 18:51:51 <Macer> :) it's thanksgiving? a turkey? oh wait.. slonopotamus isn't in the US
Nov 24 18:51:58 * vi____ hears the footsteps of a guard on patrol.
Nov 24 18:52:02 <Macer> nm heh
Nov 24 18:52:21 <slonopotamus> Macer: feel free to change wording if that doesn't sound proper english :P
Nov 24 18:53:15 <Macer> huh?
Nov 24 18:53:17 <vi____> so what do you make of this 720p recording on n900 eh?
Nov 24 18:53:32 <Macer> it can record at 720p?
Nov 24 18:53:32 <vi____> doing the unpossible?
Nov 24 18:53:45 <Macer> i didn't think the hardware could pull that off
Nov 24 18:54:03 <vi____> The DSP codecs have been uh...borrowed from harmattan
Nov 24 18:54:19 <vi____> The DSP has been overclocked.
Nov 24 18:54:26 <Macer> yeah but i thought it was more so a physical hardware limitation
Nov 24 18:54:28 <Macer> oooooh
Nov 24 18:54:37 <Macer> that sounds like something i woudln't try heh
Nov 24 18:54:44 <vi____> They said it couldn't be done
Nov 24 18:54:52 <Macer> overlocking the dsp to make 720p video? no thanks
Nov 24 18:54:57 <SpeedEvil> I'd be more impressed with non-jerky standard def.
Nov 24 18:55:00 <vi____> why not?
Nov 24 18:55:05 <Macer> the video quality of the n900 is good enough for me
Nov 24 18:55:16 <Macer> SpeedEvil: i didn't really have probems with bad video on my n900
Nov 24 18:55:18 <vi____> SpeedEvil: It has been fixed as far as i can tell
Nov 24 18:55:26 <Macer> i use it all the time
Nov 24 18:55:38 <Macer> for my son's stuff :)
Nov 24 18:55:48 <SpeedEvil> I'd try it - but my n900 is not where I remember putting it.
Nov 24 18:56:01 <vi____> reverse ssh!
Nov 24 18:56:01 <Macer> haha
Nov 24 18:56:30 <Macer> i thought the n900 takes fine pictures too
Nov 24 18:56:41 <Macer> i mean really the n900 is a pretty old phone but still seems to hold its own rather well
Nov 24 18:56:56 <SpeedEvil> pics are generally acceptable to me.
Nov 24 18:57:09 <Macer> but i mean really.. who needs high def video to be taken from their phone? being beaten by police officers works at sd
Nov 24 18:57:32 <Macer> the judge just needs to make out their faces not see the sweat protruding out their pores
Nov 24 18:57:52 <Macer> i guess the camera used in cloverfield was high def
Nov 24 18:58:19 <Macer> never know when you are going to have to film godzilla-like monsters attacking NYC
Nov 24 18:59:26 <vi____> because we use our 'phones' to record our life around us.
Nov 24 18:59:49 <vi____> All these photos, videos and sounds have value.
Nov 24 19:00:05 <vi____> You have a choice, keep shit photos or good ones.
Nov 24 19:10:53 <Macer> well.. either way.. i think the n900 takes rather good video and photos
Nov 24 19:10:58 <Macer> even now
Nov 24 19:11:11 <Macer> i bet my n900 cam takes better quality pics than my G2 cam
Nov 24 19:11:17 <Macer> 5MP vs 8MP
Nov 24 19:11:45 <Macer> speaking of which... oh wait.. nm... no mail today. i am waiting for a housing replacement and replacement ribbon cable for my crappy G2
Nov 24 19:11:58 <Macer> i wish i could run maemo on the G2 :)
Nov 24 19:37:01 <giorgiline> hello people
Nov 24 19:37:14 <jacekowski> Macer: well, N8 makes the best photos i've seen so far
Nov 24 19:37:20 <jacekowski> Macer: in phone
Nov 24 19:37:36 <jacekowski> Macer: it makes better photos than my first digital camera
Nov 24 19:38:13 <SpeedEvil> My first digital camera had a 'high res' mode of 320*240
Nov 24 19:38:29 <RaeCarruth> hey guys, just curious - is it worth installing meego? is there a decent selection of apps?
Nov 24 19:40:05 <Macer> jacekowski: hahaha
Nov 24 19:40:36 <Macer> SpeedEvil: i was going to say the same thing!
Nov 24 19:40:40 <Macer> at 9fps :)
Nov 24 19:40:45 <Macer> for video
Nov 24 19:41:01 <Macer> jacekowski: isn't an e7 the same as an n8 but with a qwerty?
Nov 24 19:42:04 <jacekowski> not really
Nov 24 19:42:35 <jacekowski> n8 has real flash
Nov 24 19:42:41 <jacekowski> e7 has just leds
Nov 24 19:43:54 <Macer> is that a big deal?
Nov 24 19:43:58 <Macer> light isn't light? 
Nov 24 19:44:01 <SpeedEvil> No.
Nov 24 19:44:10 <SpeedEvil> An instant flash freezes motion.
Nov 24 19:44:14 <SpeedEvil> A LED doesn't.
Nov 24 19:44:36 <Macer> so it is just a matter of how well you hold still
Nov 24 19:44:39 <Macer> ?
Nov 24 19:44:49 <Macer> freezes motion? it stops time? :)
Nov 24 19:44:54 <SpeedEvil> It's not quite that simple.
Nov 24 19:45:06 <Macer> i know photons do some pretty amazing things.. but freezing motion is not one
Nov 24 19:45:28 <Sicelo> e7 also isn't 12mp
Nov 24 19:45:31 <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_photography
Nov 24 19:46:04 <SpeedEvil> In addition - if you have a .5 second flash - vs a .01 second flash.
Nov 24 19:46:28 <SpeedEvil> If you open the shutter for .5 vs .01 seconds - with the same total light energy - the amount of background light can be much smaller
Nov 24 19:46:37 <SpeedEvil> Also - the whole rolling shutter thing.
Nov 24 19:47:53 <Macer> Sicelo: i bought 4 3TB hard drives and when all was said and done.. i only have 8TB total for use
Nov 24 19:48:15 <Macer> i say that beause a MP rating vs cam quality are relative
Nov 24 19:49:17 <DocScrutinizer> 0.01s - actually sth like 0.00001s
Nov 24 19:49:24 <SpeedEvil> more like
Nov 24 19:50:30 <DocScrutinizer> I once calculated a usual 30Ws flash blasts with a real power like several GigaWatt
Nov 24 19:50:50 <DocScrutinizer> or was it several dozen MegaWatt?
Nov 24 19:51:27 <SpeedEvil> Gigawatt is high
Nov 24 19:51:30 <SpeedEvil> It's not _that_ fast.
Nov 24 19:51:35 <SpeedEvil> It's an electrolytic cap
Nov 24 19:51:45 <DocScrutinizer> anyway it's sufficient to hear the photons impact on a cookie box lid
Nov 24 19:51:46 <SpeedEvil> It's going to discharge in on the order of milliseconds, not micro.
Nov 24 19:51:55 <SpeedEvil> That's due to flash heating.
Nov 24 19:52:03 <DocScrutinizer> nope
Nov 24 19:52:20 <DocScrutinizer> it only works good on reflective surfaces
Nov 24 19:52:50 <Macer> LOL
Nov 24 19:53:15 <Macer> you heard photons hitting? :)
Nov 24 19:53:24 <SpeedEvil> Err.
Nov 24 19:53:35 <Macer> what did it sound like?
Nov 24 19:53:41 <SpeedEvil> p=e/c
Nov 24 19:53:47 <SpeedEvil> Or something
Nov 24 19:53:53 <SpeedEvil> hmm
Nov 24 19:54:17 <SpeedEvil> 10J is 3*10^-7kgms or so.
Nov 24 19:54:19 <DocScrutinizer> photon pressure in plain day sunlight is ~1g/m^2 on a mirror
Nov 24 19:54:25 <SpeedEvil> No, it's not.
Nov 24 19:54:38 <SpeedEvil> !math 1000/3*10^8
Nov 24 19:54:40 <SpeedEvil> meh
Nov 24 19:55:36 <SpeedEvil> 6 micronewtons or so
Nov 24 19:55:49 <SpeedEvil> about 1 microgram.
Nov 24 19:55:58 <SpeedEvil> (f)
Nov 24 19:55:58 <DocScrutinizer> I heard different
Nov 24 19:56:36 <SpeedEvil> Go and look up photon pressure. 2*(for reflective surfaces)1000W/c = small
Nov 24 19:57:12 <Macer> apache2-mpm-prefork?
Nov 24 19:58:33 <Macer> but he said gigawatt didn't he?
Nov 24 19:58:51 <SpeedEvil> I was addressing the sunlight point.
Nov 24 19:58:59 <Macer> oh
Nov 24 19:59:06 <SpeedEvil> Sunlight is of the order of 1000W/m^2
Nov 24 20:00:58 <DocScrutinizer> anyway Bahlsen-keksdosen-effekt been demonstrated to us by our physics teacher, and since I did a lot of tests and come to the conclusion it must be photon impact and not heating effects
Nov 24 20:02:01 <SpeedEvil> Sound from light is barely plausible - as the ear is _stupidly_ sensitive
Nov 24 20:02:08 <DocScrutinizer> Macer: yes, you actually hear a "plong" when you flash to a reflective surface thin steel or sth that also makes good sound when you gently knock it
Nov 24 20:02:52 <DocScrutinizer> generally called "bahlsen cookie can lid"
Nov 24 20:03:05 <SpeedEvil> But 3*10^-7kgms, with a diaphram weighing a gram will move 3*10^-4m/s or so.
Nov 24 20:03:08 <GeneralAntilles> t
Nov 24 20:03:12 <SpeedEvil> Which is likely to be quite audible.
Nov 24 20:03:38 <SpeedEvil> In a quiet room.
Nov 24 20:03:48 <DocScrutinizer> sure it's not loud
Nov 24 20:03:53 <SpeedEvil> However - thermal deformation of the surface may well be orders of magnitude higher.
Nov 24 20:03:57 <SpeedEvil> And flashes are hot
Nov 24 20:04:00 <DocScrutinizer> but easily audible in a quiet room
Nov 24 20:04:08 <SpeedEvil> I'd want to rule out the bimetalic effect first.
Nov 24 20:04:42 <SpeedEvil> It wouldn't happen on painted surfaces, as the paint has a low youngs modulus.
Nov 24 20:04:48 <SpeedEvil> high
Nov 24 20:05:46 <SpeedEvil> Meanwhile, in England.
Nov 24 20:05:49 <SpeedEvil> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-15842559
Nov 24 20:07:49 <lardman> lol
Nov 24 20:10:27 <GeneralAntilles> Who doesn't have bolt cutters handy?
Nov 24 20:10:36 * SpeedEvil looks around.
Nov 24 20:10:59 <SpeedEvil> In sight, I have a hacksaw, an angle grinder, a SDS drill with a chisel-bit which'd do in a pinch.
Nov 24 20:11:09 <SpeedEvil> I'd have to turn around to see my boltcutters.
Nov 24 20:11:24 <SpeedEvil> Oh - and I could in principle use the welder to cut it off too.
Nov 24 20:11:30 <SpeedEvil> But that would be a bad plan.
Nov 24 20:11:45 <SpeedEvil> Also - it's thin enough that bending it back and forth would work.
Nov 24 20:28:46 <Jyrg1> !list
Nov 24 20:29:22 <Jyrg1> !list
Nov 24 20:29:48 * SpeedEvil lists.
Nov 24 20:30:33 <DocScrutinizer> ~list
Nov 24 20:30:34 <infobot> one warez list being sent
Nov 24 20:30:42 <DocScrutinizer> ;-P
Nov 24 20:34:33 <Sicelo> 0.o
Nov 24 20:55:46 * V13 gone insane
Nov 24 20:56:42 <V13> I have two ssh to n900. One python widget in one directory. If I run the widget from the first SSH it runs. If I run it from the second, it doesn't
Nov 24 20:57:04 <Sicelo> ~list
Nov 24 20:57:05 <infobot> one warez list being sent
Nov 24 20:57:08 <V13> A third one also fails (core dump)
Nov 24 20:57:53 <V13> and it gets better:
Nov 24 20:58:00 <V13> I have a copy of that dir on another directory
Nov 24 20:58:15 <V13> both of the windows run the widget fine
Nov 24 20:58:30 <V13> by fail I mean segmentation fault, before doing anything.
Nov 24 20:58:33 <V13> any ideas ?
Nov 24 20:59:24 <V13> you can try it yourselves if you like...
Nov 24 21:11:49 <aholler> V13: set | diff set-other
Nov 24 21:11:59 <V13> none
Nov 24 21:12:08 <V13> except from very trivial things..
Nov 24 21:12:17 <V13> (SSH_CLIENT, ets)
Nov 24 21:13:37 <aholler> except in conjunction with etc. isn't an useful answer. it's the kind of answers support stops to support ;)
Nov 24 21:13:38 <V13> and now it started working...
Nov 24 21:13:59 <V13> aholler... really... it's trivial. just PAGER, PPID, OLDPWD and SSH_*
Nov 24 21:15:32 <aholler> than I would assume that widget produces random errors
Nov 24 21:15:42 * V13 back to the debugging cave
Nov 24 21:15:47 <V13> that's my thought also
Nov 24 21:16:00 <V13> the bad thing is that it's core dump from a python prog
Nov 24 21:18:27 <aholler> python is like gtk, both requiring runtime-error-search-capabilities ;)
Nov 24 21:19:05 <V13> eh?
Nov 24 21:20:36 <aholler> python isn't statically-typed and gtk removes that through casting everything
Nov 24 21:27:13 <aholler> so devs don't get much errors at compile-time.
Nov 24 21:27:30 <aholler> the result is that many programing errors only get visible at runtime, in contrast to c(without casts)/c++ or java. thats at least my experience.
Nov 24 21:27:47 <V13> aholler: this is not related to coredumps..
Nov 24 21:27:51 <V13> right ?
Nov 24 21:28:11 <aholler> why not?
Nov 24 21:28:16 <V13> how ?
Nov 24 21:28:42 <aholler> give some python code something it doesn't expect and everything can happen.
Nov 24 21:28:50 <V13> diagree
Nov 24 21:28:53 <V13> disagree
Nov 24 21:29:06 <V13> it will fail with exceptions. not with core dump
Nov 24 21:29:25 <aholler> depends.
Nov 24 21:30:25 <aholler> I think stack overflow (e.g. through recursion), oom or similiar aren't catched by the python-runtime.
Nov 24 21:33:22 <aholler> but that discussion doesn't help you. sorry, I just had some spare time to flame. ;)
Nov 24 21:33:27 <V13> :P
Nov 24 21:56:45 <ruskie> lol got a mail from whatever nokia newsleter I've signed up to in the past that the N9 is available for purchase... rofl
Nov 24 22:15:43 <RaeCarruth> how do i get rid of the annoying/unnecessary busybox tag line?
Nov 24 22:19:16 <RaeCarruth> anyone?
Nov 24 22:27:19 <DocScrutinizer51> tag line???
Nov 24 22:27:59 <DocScrutinizer51> I'd feel happy to suggest bash4, bur I dunno what busybox tagline is
Nov 24 22:30:46 <luke-jr_> I presume he means the message when you login?
Nov 24 22:46:19 <DocScrutinizer51> actually annoying
Nov 24 22:46:42 <DocScrutinizer51> nfc how to get rid of that
Nov 24 22:47:05 <DocScrutinizer51> recompile messybox w/o the msg
Nov 24 22:47:21 <DocScrutinizer51> or use a SHELL
Nov 24 22:48:01 <DocScrutinizer51> sth that has enough self-esteem to not need that cruft
Nov 24 22:48:22 <DocScrutinizer51> a *real* shell: bash
Nov 24 22:49:49 <kerio> zsh!
Nov 24 22:50:18 <Jooles_> Gesundheit
Nov 24 22:50:24 <Jooles_> :P
Nov 24 23:00:33 <RaeCarruth> hi guys
Nov 24 23:42:41 <merlin1991> ~seen X-Fade
Nov 24 23:42:45 <infobot> x-fade is currently on #maemo (20m 43s) #harmattan (20m 43s) #meego (20m 43s), last said: 'I want it as much as anyone, but we need to prevent dependency hell :)'.
Nov 24 23:47:53 <LaoLang_cool> Is there a way to send sms in a schedular time?
Nov 24 23:51:41 <HyperSnyper> alarmed + CLI sms
Nov 24 23:51:53 <HyperSnyper> not done it myself but i'd start there
Nov 24 23:54:01 <LaoLang_cool> HyperSnyper: thanks for pointing me
Nov 24 23:54:47 <HyperSnyper> happy to help, most of the time it's me asking for advice :D
Nov 24 23:57:15 <LaoLang_cool> HyperSnyper: :)
Nov 25 00:07:32 <Macer> i disconnected my big server and have just the synology
Nov 25 00:07:44 <Macer> and apparently the ups can keep it powered for 4000+ seconds
Nov 25 00:07:59 <Macer> i'm running off the ups just to see how well it does
Nov 25 02:05:45 <merlin1991> is there any kind of cache in scratchbox wich I could empty?
Nov 25 02:06:41 <merlin1991> my disk is running out of space, or rather ran out of space while compiling qt
Nov 25 02:06:49 <merlin1991> and I'm pretty sure I did compile that not so long ago
Nov 25 02:09:23 <mgedmin> cache? well, apt has caches, so if you apt-get installed a bunch of stuff, run apt-cache clean 
Nov 25 02:09:54 <mgedmin> 'make clean' in the directory where you built qt will also clean a lot of stuff -- though it can also clean the deliverables, so watch out if you haven't packaged them/installed them somewhere
Nov 25 02:43:32 <merlin1991> just fired up filelight trying to figure out where the hell my deskspace went to
Nov 25 02:43:42 <merlin1991> 500000 files and still counting
Nov 25 02:44:07 <merlin1991> oh 1,5 m it was
Nov 25 02:56:21 <DocScrutinizer> WTF :-o
Nov 25 02:57:27 <merlin1991> DocScrutinizer: I figured out where my diskspace went
Nov 25 02:57:39 <merlin1991> in /scratchbox/user/$USER/var/tmp
Nov 25 02:57:51 <DocScrutinizer> *cough*
Nov 25 02:57:53 <merlin1991> there were 2 folders with some random name, each 2.3 gigs
Nov 25 02:58:06 <DocScrutinizer> *cough*!!!!!
Nov 25 02:58:52 <DocScrutinizer> ~xyawn
Nov 25 02:58:53 <infobot> good coffee
Nov 25 02:58:57 <DocScrutinizer> ok
Nov 25 02:59:22 <merlin1991> now compliling qt again
Nov 25 02:59:39 <merlin1991> but this time with 10 gigs of free space for a start :)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Nov 25 02:59:57 2011