**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Dec 07 02:59:57 2011 Dec 07 04:49:42 Do any of the package maintainers use an alias instead of their real name? Dec 07 04:57:26 whats a "real" name? Dec 07 06:00:08 hey guys. i have 6 1TB hard drives i'm trying to get rid of for $50 each if anybody is interested in any of them Dec 07 06:00:20 and a pci-x areca raid :) Dec 07 06:00:24 if anybody even has pci-x Dec 07 06:04:19 Take those prices to ebay! Dec 07 06:06:23 Macer: yeah, craigslist or ebay will get you much more than $60 Dec 07 06:07:11 doc|home: really? Dec 07 06:07:20 Not that much more. Dec 07 06:07:21 i Dec 07 06:07:26 i'm just trying to get rid of them ;) Dec 07 06:07:36 they will just be lying around. i gutted my old server Dec 07 06:07:40 since i have the synology in place now Dec 07 06:07:53 and now my old server is my gaming box/workstation Dec 07 06:08:04 it still has a little kick to it :) Dec 07 06:08:47 although i was actually thinking about replacing the mboard/cpu with the newer phenom stuff Dec 07 06:09:08 why not? $400-$600 for the highest grade amd stuff Dec 07 06:09:14 Macer: what brand are they? Dec 07 06:09:19 You can get TB disks for as little as $70 on ebay. Dec 07 06:09:53 Macer: I hate to say it, but the amd stuff is a bit shit really. I was looking, ended up getting i5 instead. I really tried to find something half decent in amd-land. It's just not there. Dec 07 06:09:58 they are WD Caviars Dec 07 06:10:09 green/blue/black? Dec 07 06:10:10 WD10EACS Dec 07 06:10:12 green Dec 07 06:11:12 not bad disks Dec 07 06:11:20 they are literally just sitting on my floor now lol Dec 07 06:11:27 not especially fast, but still pretty good Dec 07 06:11:37 i kept 2 of them and hooked them onto the onboard sata Dec 07 06:11:40 and gutted the rest Dec 07 06:11:44 I'm not interested. Dec 07 06:11:49 i don't need all that noise and i mirrored the 2 for win7 Dec 07 06:11:58 this thing is like 50dB quieter now lol Dec 07 06:12:42 jazedal: i honestly wasn't trying to sell it ot you anyways.. i was asking the # veterans Dec 07 06:13:03 Good, then you're not disappointed. Dec 07 06:13:04 heh Dec 07 06:13:42 er. no.. i can honestly say i'm not disappointed :) i wouldn't be disappointed if i didn't sell any of them. i'm not chinese. Dec 07 06:13:54 and i don't live check to check Dec 07 06:13:56 lol Dec 07 06:14:23 doc|home: if any of the guys want them theyre here. i'm going to put them on ebay next week otherewise. Dec 07 06:14:32 Well, you're doing a good job. Dec 07 06:14:44 Of not selling them. Dec 07 06:14:55 jazedal: wtf is up with you? Dec 07 06:15:03 ...nothing. Dec 07 06:15:13 Macer: thanks, don't have any great need for those right now. If you have a couple of samsung spinpoint f1s however? :) Dec 07 06:15:16 o_O Dec 07 06:15:25 LOL! no doc|home Dec 07 06:15:48 stupid seagate Dec 07 06:15:52 * doc|home grumbles Dec 07 06:16:41 doc|home: is the amd stuff really that bad? Dec 07 06:16:50 i mean price vs performance seems about right Dec 07 06:17:05 when compared to an intel on the same level Dec 07 06:17:44 all the review sites i saw seem to have similar benchmarks when comparing a high end amd with the 2nd highest end intel :) Dec 07 06:22:14 Macer: price, performance, watt they look a bit lame Dec 07 06:22:34 amd are doing their best to be intel when intel was at its worst :) Dec 07 06:28:25 well. i am just going off raw numbers ;) Dec 07 06:28:46 the latest phenom that is around $300 with 8 cores seems comparable to an intel i7 Dec 07 06:29:01 probably not the latest and greatest but maybe a couple of step s down Dec 07 06:29:03 uhh Dec 07 06:29:10 atm amd is a nogo Dec 07 06:29:33 ThreeM: why? are the mboards and cpus buggy? Dec 07 06:29:48 price performance rating is worse Dec 07 06:30:02 where do you see that? Dec 07 06:30:23 i was looking at them not too long ago and they seemed pretty fairly priced for their performance when compared to an intel with the same benchmarks Dec 07 06:30:26 different benchmarks, reviews and tests Dec 07 06:30:46 in lower middleclass with integraded GPu amd is very good Dec 07 06:31:06 but on high end systems, the is no way around a iCore CPU Dec 07 06:31:14 odd Dec 07 06:31:46 like i said. i don't see how that is the case . i checked quite a few sites and the strongest amd cpu seemed to hold its own when compared to an i7 Dec 07 06:32:03 like i said. not the strongest i7 but still.. an i7 that was twice the price of the amd Dec 07 06:32:24 my new i5 system with 8gigabyte ram, geforce 560 TI and quad Core cpu @ 3,4ghz per core are about 600euro Dec 07 06:32:51 so nowadays that would be what? $100USD? Dec 07 06:32:54 * Macer grins :) Dec 07 06:32:57 and hell its fast Dec 07 06:33:27 jk. i see your point but i am sure an amd with 8 cores is rather zippy too Dec 07 06:33:44 the power consumtion in compare to the performance is poor on amd site and there high performance phenom cpus Dec 07 06:33:49 and the benchmarks when comparing the intels and amds seem ... :) well. Dec 07 06:34:12 ThreeM: i am running 2 dual core opteron 285s now... power isn't too big of a deal Dec 07 06:34:24 the cpus alone are probably sucking away well over 100W ;) Dec 07 06:34:32 sure its zippy. but it consumes more power, and compared to the price its more expensive then a icore cpu system Dec 07 06:34:52 i guess but really how long would it take to make up the price difference in electricity? Dec 07 06:34:56 10 years? ;) Dec 07 06:35:20 on my site i saved 20eur a year Dec 07 06:35:27 if you live near a nuclear plant... 20 Dec 07 06:35:44 x6 phenom before, now i5 Dec 07 06:35:59 20EU isn't worth it ;) Dec 07 06:36:02 a year?? Dec 07 06:36:06 and the i5 is cooler then a phenom :) Dec 07 06:36:21 that means it will take you years to make up the difference in price with electricity Dec 07 06:36:25 lower noisy systems Dec 07 06:36:40 ThreeM: yeah but i was talking more personal gaming box use ... not servers Dec 07 06:37:01 i gave up on a big loud server in favor for a 1.2GHz arm based synology Dec 07 06:37:02 on this site, icore is better to Dec 07 06:37:23 it makes 1dB ;) vs the 50 my loud server was throwing out Dec 07 06:37:38 im playing Skyrim with HD Textures, full details, 1080p resolution @ 50fps ;) Dec 07 06:37:43 ThreeM: i didn't say am dwas better. i just said price vs performance the amd should be considered Dec 07 06:38:06 i am sure a top end amd with a fair video card can do just as well Dec 07 06:38:30 sure it can, but for more money per fps :) Dec 07 06:39:07 around $700 for the barebones mboard/cpu/ram Dec 07 06:39:16 and that is a really high end mboard ;) Dec 07 06:39:30 a competitive amd system, with i considered to tto buy as a new pc, will be expensivier than 150eur :/ Dec 07 06:39:55 Good god, is that a sentence? Dec 07 06:40:16 sorry, im german in a low educated area ;) Dec 07 06:40:22 lmao Dec 07 06:40:34 ThreeM: don't feel bad.. all of the US is a low educated area ;) Dec 07 06:40:45 my won will never set foot in a public school Dec 07 06:40:48 won/son Dec 07 06:40:56 waste of tax dollars Dec 07 06:41:12 hope i can write his private education off later somehow Dec 07 06:41:14 Well then who's going to teach him? Dec 07 06:41:27 uhm.. a .. private school teacher? Dec 07 06:41:28 keep up Dec 07 06:41:40 see? public education right there. Dec 07 06:41:58 Just because you posted half of a second before me, doesn't mean you posted it soon enough. Dec 07 06:42:11 find it kind of neat that you just insulted a german who learned english Dec 07 06:42:28 as if that is an easy thing to do :) learn german then talk about bad sentences Dec 07 06:42:40 Don't be so pointy, I insult you too. Dec 07 06:42:51 oh thats ok. as a german i know my english is no so good ;) Dec 07 06:43:14 ThreeM: honestly.. it is better than most Americans :-P Dec 07 06:43:22 wehn you ask a german, everybody will tell you "i can speak english, but not very good" ;) Dec 07 06:43:41 a lot of which can not even read because of a failed public schooling system Dec 07 06:43:56 we dont beleive in our english speak Dec 07 06:44:02 ThreeM: but thanks for the info. maybe i will cosider an icore Dec 07 06:44:30 sigh Dec 07 06:44:37 finally got power49 built Dec 07 06:44:41 and as expected, it doesn't boot Dec 07 06:44:58 and as usual, Maemo provides no logs whatsoever to debug from Dec 07 06:45:02 try power50 Dec 07 06:45:04 :) Dec 07 06:45:36 no such thing Dec 07 06:45:48 look at our foreign minister, he is pure irony Dec 07 06:46:24 luke-jr: i was joking. i don't even know what power49 is Dec 07 06:46:34 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=lLYGPWQ0VjY#t=20s Dec 07 06:46:47 me is a genius in english speak :) Dec 07 06:47:52 i bought a cheap charger for my N900 batteries off ebay for like $10 (battery included) it actually works good Dec 07 06:48:06 You don't know what power49 is?! Power49 is the rebuilt kernel for the N900. It includes many features the stock kernel doesn't offer. Dec 07 06:48:49 oh so that's what i installed. go figure. Dec 07 06:49:14 Such as, support for dm-crypt, dependency for w1 bleeding-edge wifi driver, and overclocking. Dec 07 06:49:29 jazedal: and doesn't work. Dec 07 06:49:55 lol Dec 07 06:49:58 Are you sure? I'm pretty sure I've installed it myself. Dec 07 06:50:10 luke-jr: i'm sure it won't work forever Dec 07 06:50:23 jazedal: 49? Dec 07 06:50:58 Yes, 49. Dec 07 06:51:28 lies Dec 07 06:51:38 back to xfiles.. never saw it before Dec 07 06:51:40 jazedal: well, won't boot for me Dec 07 06:51:42 it's actually kind of boring Dec 07 06:51:47 jazedal: no logs to look at, so I'm lost. Dec 07 06:51:51 No, I just checked, I have 49 installed right now. Dec 07 06:52:28 * Macer facepalm Dec 07 06:53:13 doesn't help me. Dec 07 06:53:29 * luke-jr ponders how to get some kind of logging.. Dec 07 06:55:56 I haven't needed any boot logs, but you might try searching google for how to enable boot logging on the N900. Dec 07 06:57:27 no results Dec 07 06:58:01 Are you sure? Did you type anything into the search box? Dec 07 07:01:12 jazedal: duh Dec 07 07:01:45 I'm sorry, I wish I could help. I just have real problems to fix. Dec 07 07:03:25 Whereas your problem can be fixed by simply reflashing your device and reinstalling power49 from scratch. Dec 07 07:05:26 * Macer facepalm Dec 07 07:07:31 jazedal: ………… Dec 07 07:07:49 yeah, let's reinstall the OS whenever a CUSTOM BUILT KERNEL DOESN'T BOOT Dec 07 07:07:55 Oh, if you find a solution, do let me know. Dec 07 07:07:57 I wonder how that gets my kernel working Dec 07 07:08:33 Simple, it removes whatever you did to it to keep it from working. Dec 07 07:09:35 jazedal: no, it doesn't. Dec 07 07:09:51 It doesn't? Have you tried it already? Dec 07 07:09:56 I'd reinstall, lose all my data, and the custom build STILL wouldn't work Dec 07 07:10:05 no, I'm not stupid enough to try something like that for no reason Dec 07 07:11:03 You wouldn't lose the data on the eMMC. That's where all your data should be. Anything that isn't should be documented, because you're going to have to reflash anyway. Dec 07 07:11:49 jazedal: no, I'm not. Dec 07 07:12:13 I'm just going to boot power42 until I figure out what's wrong with power49 Dec 07 07:12:46 Oh, you've set up multiple boot partitions? Dec 07 07:13:12 …yes Dec 07 07:13:20 Maybe that's your problem. Dec 07 07:13:26 ……… Dec 07 07:13:42 I'm sorry, but I really have to go. Dec 07 07:14:41 If you figure out a solution, or have anything important to say.......let me know. Dec 07 07:16:46 I'm playing minesweeper. Dec 07 07:17:50 It is very frustrating. Dec 07 07:27:10 well, got a strace of the entire boot process now… Dec 07 07:27:52 looks like I need a power42 one to compare it with Dec 07 07:34:02 Goodie. Please document any obstacles you encounter while doing that. Dec 07 07:56:22 [pid 1194] ioctl(5, 0x703, 0x55) = -1 EBUSY (Device or resource busy) Dec 07 07:56:25 seems to be the problem Dec 07 07:56:29 (that's BME :/) Dec 07 07:58:12 Ohai bq27000 module Dec 07 07:58:18 /usr/include/linux/i2c-dev.h:#define I2C_SLAVE 0x0703 /* Use this slave address */ Dec 07 07:58:27 MohammadAG: hmm Dec 07 07:58:41 Blacklist the bitch Dec 07 07:59:08 is this documented somewhere? XD Dec 07 07:59:17 Also CONFIG_FRAMEBUFFER_SOMETHING for live boot Dec 07 07:59:44 aha, I see it in the dpkg src Dec 07 07:59:53 MohammadAG: yeah, but Maemo blanks the display… Dec 07 08:01:00 R&D mode doesn't luke-jr Dec 07 08:01:44 does for me Dec 07 08:02:35 yay that works Dec 07 08:02:36 Linux sanji 2.6.28.10-fremantle-power49-gcc45 #2 PREEMPT Wed Dec 7 01:08:37 EST 2011 armv7l unknown Dec 07 08:02:40 MohammadAG: tyvm Dec 07 08:02:49 I would have spent another hour trying to fix it >_< Dec 07 08:03:27 Did I mention my support is now paid? Dec 07 08:03:34 That'll be $50 Dec 07 08:05:48 MohammadAG: haha Dec 07 08:06:01 well, at least now I've confirmed kexec doesn't work any better in 49… Dec 07 08:06:04 <.< Dec 07 08:21:01 nba 2k12 is fking great Dec 07 08:21:12 :) Dec 07 08:44:46 Has anyone gotten the error "could not read symbols: File in wrong format", when uploading new package source, as if the object files were compiled for a different architecture. Dec 07 09:35:47 hello Dec 07 11:33:53 seems like hildon-desktop crashed. How can I restart it without rebooting? Dec 07 11:36:19 Ctrl+Shift+X (if you have CSSU/MHD installed) and maybe run hildon-desktop from there? Dec 07 11:36:42 I thought they normally restart anyway after a few seconds/minutes Dec 07 11:45:48 what is MHD? Dec 07 11:47:33 modified hildon desktop, it was by matan which featured stuff that is now part of CSSU Dec 07 11:48:10 * psycho_oreos double checks to see if he's speaking in the right channel lol Dec 07 12:03:04 ħelllo there, Maemo Dec 07 12:03:10 yeah it should've respawned. ctrl-shift-x doesn't launch the terminal. I have ssh access though but DISPLAY=:0 hildon-desktop failed with a segmentation fault Dec 07 12:04:33 I got small question., While using N900 connected to monitor via TV-out, and with bluetooth/usb mouse/keyboard, events from external keyboard/mouse aren't recognized by timer invoking securing device Dec 07 12:05:02 quite irritating, cause from time to time, I'm thrown out to lock code input (which I can do via mouse, fortunatelly). Dec 07 12:05:27 It's especially irritating, if one use Truecrypt + 5 min lockcode timer, for security Dec 07 12:05:46 of course I can disable autolocking while working, but it's far from optimal. Is there any way to fix it? Dec 07 12:06:57 maybe bugging developer of extkbd/extmou? I have no idea, what determines autolock and events that trigger resseting it's timer (like touching screen, or hardware keyboard) Dec 07 12:07:20 normally, I would tell it's Nokia bug, but we know too well that we must find a way to fix it ourself... ;) Dec 07 12:10:09 Estel_: I use a script to turn autolock on/off (useful for when driving to unlock screen by touch) Dec 07 12:10:38 Estel_: you could hook it into power key menu Dec 07 12:11:14 So, basicallyh You're swapping it's setting via invoked script Dec 07 12:11:20 yup Dec 07 12:11:31 going through settings was to much of a balleache Dec 07 12:11:41 ^ball-ache Dec 07 12:11:46 it's good solution, but I think binding such script to extmou/extkbd (when mouse or keyboard is connected) should be trivial Dec 07 12:12:04 so, it would automatically turn on/off on external mouse or keyboard Dec 07 12:12:16 I'll try bugging freemangordon about that. Thanks Dec 07 12:12:37 Estel_: good point Dec 07 12:12:45 what is extmou? Dec 07 12:13:13 package allowing You to use external mouse via usb or bluetooth, Probably You have it installed if You ever tried to use it Dec 07 12:13:25 it's sister-package for extkbd, both by freeman Dec 07 12:14:00 it solves some irritating bugs + automatically enable cursor when mouse or keyboard with trackpoint is connected Dec 07 12:14:05 Estel_: I would hold of hassling the freeman till you have a solution. Dec 07 12:14:14 replacement for bluetooth-hd script by qole Dec 07 12:14:23 So it is just a script? Dec 07 12:14:50 extkbd get gui, as for extmou, probably it's set of scripts. Although, available from repos Dec 07 12:15:02 Then it will be trivial to add a line that enables/disables screen lock gconf. Dec 07 12:15:08 quite a good addition as well Dec 07 12:15:16 I think yes Dec 07 12:15:26 Have you used a usb mouse? Dec 07 12:15:26 Are you two finished? I have a problem. Dec 07 12:15:32 jazedal: no Dec 07 12:15:36 both extmou and extkbd got threads on TMO Dec 07 12:15:45 jazedal, You can talk simulatenously Dec 07 12:15:56 this way we can achieve simulatenous... solution ;) Dec 07 12:15:59 *waits impatiently* Dec 07 12:16:10 vi_ of course Dec 07 12:16:27 Estel_: devs hate being hassled with 'suggestions' without rationale and solutions behind them. Dec 07 12:16:32 Currently, I'm ussing usb keyboard + bluetooth mouse for power savinbg reasons Dec 07 12:17:01 Estel_: were you the one wanting to turn on LEDs for flashlight from console with v4l2ctl? Dec 07 12:17:25 rationale is present, and solution is ekhm explained, cause as You know, I'm not na coder. Still, it's seem so trivial, that I'll try adding it myself. Unless I end being unable to decide where to put it, lol Dec 07 12:17:40 w00t? Dec 07 12:17:45 no, it wasn't me Dec 07 12:17:49 Estel_: how is your bash scripting? Dec 07 12:18:03 Okay. I'm having an issue trying to upload a new package. Autobuilder is outputting "/scratchbox/tools/lib/perl5/5.8.4/i686-linux-thread-multi/auto/DynaLoader/DynaLoader.a: could not read symbols: File in wrong format Dec 07 12:18:18 noln-existant = I've ''written'' some scripts, reverse-engineering existing ones, Dec 07 12:18:26 aahghhhh Dec 07 12:18:28 double single quote Dec 07 12:18:34 just use double quote? :-D Dec 07 12:19:19 bindi_, rationale? Dec 07 12:19:21 collect2: ld returned 1 exit status", like in bug 1954, but on the server. Dec 07 12:19:23 04Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/1954 Scratchbox makes building extensions to target Perl, Python etc awkward Dec 07 12:19:42 ugh Dec 07 12:19:45 Estel_: I will pm you the screen lock/unlock script. Dec 07 12:19:48 Estel_: huh? :p just poking you about your '' (two ') - why not just use "? :D Dec 07 12:20:18 thanks, I'll put it somewhere and chedck how it works, if state=success, will send it to freeman with vproper credits to You Dec 07 12:20:19 Okay. I'm having an issue trying to upload a new package. Autobuilder is outputting "/scratchbox/tools/lib/perl5/5.8.4/i686-linux-thread-multi/auto/DynaLoader/DynaLoader.a: could not read symbols: File in wrong format collect2: ld returned 1 exit status", like in bug 1954, but on the server. Dec 07 12:20:21 Estel_: you can then figure out how to integrate it with extmou/keyb etc. Dec 07 12:20:52 Estel_: no credits, it is a one liner if I recall correctly! Dec 07 12:21:06 bindi_, laziness - probably - double single quote can be used without shift. Useful, when writing using one hand Dec 07 12:21:29 aye, but You know I'm crediting-whore ;) Dec 07 12:21:34 Estel_: do you have callnotify installed? Dec 07 12:21:37 Estel_: could also just use one single quote :P Dec 07 12:21:45 When you said I could post simultaneously, I assumed you meant you would read it. Dec 07 12:21:56 jazedal, You got answer Dec 07 12:22:08 I did?... Dec 07 12:22:10 just rewing a little ;) not from me, though Dec 07 12:22:22 yea, link to bugzilla with comments Dec 07 12:22:47 vi_, no idea, what does it do? Seems I recall that name, but... Dec 07 12:23:10 bindi_, true ;P but it doesnt match my aesthetic, lol Dec 07 12:23:35 I don't see an answer. Dec 07 12:23:38 also, in some coding, double quote use more bits to encode than double single quote Dec 07 12:23:46 It makes a little icon in status bar for when you miss a call/sms. It also makes the n900 vibrate every 5 mins (or so) to remind you you have a missed notification. Dec 07 12:23:55 so with limited avaiulable characters, I get used to use double single quote, lol Dec 07 12:24:10 Also it turns out it causes ~4-500 wake ups/S Dec 07 12:24:36 hahaha. Don't have it, - no need. It seems that I would not like it anyway... Dec 07 12:25:03 jazedal, quoting: Dec 07 12:25:07 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/1954 Scratchbox makes building extensions to target Perl, Python etc awkward Dec 07 12:25:08 04Bug 1954: Scratchbox makes building extensions to target Perl, Python etc awkward Dec 07 12:25:13 Estel_: also on my series of battery life... Dec 07 12:25:13 Thank you... Dec 07 12:25:20 125 MHz is rubbish. Dec 07 12:25:57 vi_, I don't use 125. In my case, 500-900 provide better battery life, especially with smartreflex by freem Dec 07 12:26:07 and he's going to recalculate it even more... ;) Dec 07 12:26:19 jazedal, no problem Dec 07 12:26:25 No, that's not a solution. That's merely pointing out that I have a problem. Dec 07 12:26:38 ah, I see. Dec 07 12:27:06 Estel_: may I suggest 250MHz as your lower level. Also enabling 500 and 805 only. Dec 07 12:27:18 cause I have no clue, I suggest You a) waiting for someone knowledgeable showing up on irc b) write on talk.maemo.org dev section c) waiting for someone to respond in bug comments. Dec 07 12:27:26 probably, combination of all of these is best Dec 07 12:27:37 check your current cpu stats with the cpu stats script by rooted on the wiki for overclocking. Dec 07 12:27:47 vi_, Yea, know that script Dec 07 12:27:51 The bug page offers a solution, but it requires modifying environment variables or program paths, but the error is in AutoBuilder Dec 07 12:27:52 then try the above freqs and check again. Dec 07 12:28:11 The n900 spends around 94% of the time in 250% when idle. Dec 07 12:28:13 the funniest thing is that, comparing it with real-world test of 10h locked standby Dec 07 12:28:33 ^250MHz Dec 07 12:28:39 500 mhz result in less mAh used, than both 250 and 125, lol. Tried it three times Dec 07 12:28:45 which uses ~ 2/3 of the power of 500MHz Dec 07 12:28:50 true Dec 07 12:29:01 but I think famous "race to idle" has effect here Dec 07 12:29:07 except when in use! Dec 07 12:29:09 remember about sitting on 0 mhz Dec 07 12:29:27 then it flip/flops around 805/500 (some 250) Dec 07 12:29:27 task are finished faster on 500 mhz Dec 07 12:29:44 so it got more time on 0 mhz every second Dec 07 12:29:46 total Dec 07 12:29:50 Wait for someone knowledgeable to show up, like that will ever happen. Dec 07 12:29:59 Yes, however even if task is finished faster, it required more power to finish faster than to finish slightly slower. Dec 07 12:30:11 jazedal, thats life. Seriously though, ask in talk.maemo.org and be patient - no one is ignorinjg You on purpose. Dec 07 12:30:17 I better just write a long and detailed letter to Nokia. Dec 07 12:30:26 vi_ - true, but on 0mhz You save on power leakage Dec 07 12:30:48 which is 0 on 0 mhz, and never even close to 0 on any mhz, even 1 ;) Dec 07 12:31:04 jazedal, wreiting letter to bankrupt company is useless, but, Your choice Dec 07 12:31:25 vi_, as You/ve said, 500 mhz uses 1/3 more power Dec 07 12:31:35 while it is 2x faster than 250 mhz Dec 07 12:31:40 Estel_: ok, consider this. Dec 07 12:31:47 = power saving. Add to it powser leakage savings Dec 07 12:31:51 I know no one is ignoring me. It's a question of capability. Dec 07 12:31:54 which is hard to measure by any tool Dec 07 12:32:04 cause even simplest script makes it get out of 0 mhz Dec 07 12:32:10 Estel_: when I am using n900 as an mp3 player, it is constantly awake. Dec 07 12:32:16 true Dec 07 12:32:27 However processing requirements are relativly low. Dec 07 12:32:27 except that I use .ogg, no single mp3 here ;P Dec 07 12:32:46 and can be serviced with 250 MHz. Dec 07 12:32:52 for such purposes I can agree, that 250 mhz may better choice Dec 07 12:33:09 but, 1/3 more power to 500 with 2x more speed still apply Dec 07 12:33:22 You just Don't need to consider power leakage here Dec 07 12:33:26 So if I spend 3 hours listening to music, is it not better it sits at 250MHz than 500? Dec 07 12:33:55 I'm not sure, cause I don't know what device does in "spare time" every second Dec 07 12:34:02 when awake Dec 07 12:34:10 Estel_: it is spammed to death by bme. Dec 07 12:34:16 common sense tells me it still underclock to 0 mhz Dec 07 12:34:20 haha Dec 07 12:34:22 maybe Dec 07 12:34:27 fucking bme Dec 07 12:34:44 Pali is writting kernel modules, as base for bme replacement Dec 07 12:35:01 if I could just find a way to detect USB plugin without BME I could get rid of the fucking thing. Dec 07 12:35:18 joerg_rw though once it's impossible work to re-wriote every single api relying on bme, but Pali is quite bulletproof for impossible thiungs, fortunatelly Dec 07 12:35:31 Estel_: I saw. Dec 07 12:35:39 usb plugin? You mean mass storage, or PC suite? Dec 07 12:35:49 Estel_: but let us be frank. What ACTUALLY relies on BME? Dec 07 12:35:54 AFAIK it's just matter of g_file_storage and g_nokia modules Dec 07 12:35:55 usb plugin for charging. Dec 07 12:36:11 (and mass storage mode too i guess.) Dec 07 12:36:31 DocScrutinizer is better suited t=to answer this question, but I remember chatter about some crucial hildon components. Dec 07 12:36:43 mass storage mode doesn't AFAIK Dec 07 12:36:51 PC USB charging does. Dec 07 12:37:02 The only thing I need BME for is updating my battery icon (which is fucking useless and wrong) and updating hal WRT usb conditions. Dec 07 12:37:02 without it, it can charge only @ 100 mA from PC port Dec 07 12:37:16 You don't need it for battery icon Dec 07 12:37:27 Yar you do. Dec 07 12:37:33 advanced-power-monitor does it, and can be set to don't use bme even now Dec 07 12:37:36 and dont say advanced battery widget, Dec 07 12:37:44 You can use fuckin bq27x00_battery for it Dec 07 12:37:48 not widget Dec 07 12:37:50 monitor. Dec 07 12:38:04 it is another python 'appz' Dec 07 12:38:04 it replaces stgatus menu indicator and status menu icon Dec 07 12:38:09 that sucks cpu and ram Dec 07 12:38:31 can't agree, it's written in a way avoiding waking CPU when it's not doing other things Dec 07 12:38:41 that's why he is not using i2c values stgill Dec 07 12:38:43 Is there a community repository to bypass autobuilder? Dec 07 12:38:50 mmm, how do I set it to use BQ? Dec 07 12:38:50 can be used to read from bq..._battery or bme Dec 07 12:39:09 first - You need to have bq enabled. Then, it appear in APM menu Dec 07 12:39:34 drawbacks - You can't use hostmode, cause disabling and enabling bme with bq_batter.ko loaded result in instant reboot Dec 07 12:39:49 there were patch avoiding it to live together wsith bme, but it was fucking done wrong Dec 07 12:39:58 and was disabled in KP47 and up Dec 07 12:40:04 but, with Pali's module... Dec 07 12:40:22 APM can be easily re-written to use this module instead of bq_.....ko Dec 07 12:40:38 thats the proper way it should be done from beginning Dec 07 12:41:02 but Nokiua implement bme to avoid open-source'ing it by adding it as kernel module (which must be Open) Dec 07 12:41:09 bme was done wrong. Dec 07 12:41:17 It totally hogs the i2c bus. Dec 07 12:41:26 if someone - probably PAli and freeman - clear mess with hildon parts talking to bme, You can sayh bye bye bme Dec 07 12:41:35 It is mind boggling. Dec 07 12:41:49 yea. bq27x00_battery, if started at boot, enables path for bme Dec 07 12:42:07 but, if bme gets disabled during runtime, and enabled again, it can't use same method again Dec 07 12:42:30 cause bme need exclusive access to i2c, and onlyh way to cheat it is during boot Dec 07 12:42:44 anyway, bq...ko isn't most beautiful code work You can imagine Dec 07 12:42:47 nokia designed a full system with charging chip and battery chip. Both which have an established method of useage and implementation on a linux type system. Dec 07 12:43:21 They then ignored all that and gave us the half assed hack job abortion that is BME that doesnt even work with their own hardware properly. Dec 07 12:43:26 true, but, battery chip "should" sit in battery, which would make it harder to create dual-batteries. It shouldn't, but I'm sure battery manufacturers would lock battery chip Dec 07 12:43:38 to avgoid/make harder recalibration for custom batteries Dec 07 12:43:52 not to mention morfe expensive battery replacements Dec 07 12:44:13 so, at the end, if Pali succeed, we may end up in best scenario possible Dec 07 12:44:30 whether BQ chip should sit in battery or not is moot. It is a smart chip designed to learn the capacity of the cells it is managing. Dec 07 12:44:35 battery made from cell + anti-shortcut simple PCB, and kernel module for talking with system Dec 07 12:44:58 yea, but it can't handle swapping battery withouit reboot, if it's not sitting inside battery Dec 07 12:45:22