**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Dec 19 02:59:58 2011
Dec 19 03:58:27 <kwtm2> Oh, well.
Dec 19 11:27:15 <MohammadAG> r00t^home: NB is Internal bug tracker
Dec 19 11:34:36 <r00t^home> MohammadAG: so we will never know...?
Dec 19 11:35:07 <MohammadAG> andre__?
Dec 19 11:35:24 <andre__> MohammadAG, ?
Dec 19 11:35:31 * andre__ needs context
Dec 19 11:35:40 <andre__> and yes, NB traditionally refers to Nokia's internal Bugtracker
Dec 19 11:35:45 <r00t^home> <r00t|home> "* Added 'rodir' to mount options. Fixes: NB#101324" -- "subversion at stage.maemo.org" -- http://web.archiveorange.com/archive/v/Zai1XtdsGZPrKmgpyXnx
Dec 19 11:35:46 <MohammadAG> andre__: Read a bit up
Dec 19 11:35:58 <andre__> MohammadAG, cannot.
Dec 19 11:36:01 <andre__> ah
Dec 19 11:36:19 <r00t^home> was just wondering wtf that might be needed for
Dec 19 11:36:20 <RST38h> Hello, gentlemen
Dec 19 11:36:29 <RST38h> Moo, Mohammad, how is life?
Dec 19 11:36:48 <MohammadAG> Ssdd :p
Dec 19 11:36:57 <andre__> r00t^home, bug is "Unable to set read-only file or folder using 'chmod' under /home/user/MyDocs and /media/mmc1."
Dec 19 11:37:08 <MohammadAG> Same shit different day
Dec 19 11:37:08 <andre__> fixed in March 2009 for Fremantle.
Dec 19 11:38:33 <r00t^home> andre__: ah, thanks!
Dec 19 11:39:05 <r00t^home> so, rodir probably only makes non-writeable directories readonly...
Dec 19 11:39:28 <r00t^home> (somebody was wonderingg if that was the reason why he can't create directories, must have been something else then)
Dec 19 11:39:48 <r00t^home> maybe the +w was missing from the root or something
Dec 19 11:40:18 <RST38h> Mohammad: indeed
Dec 19 11:42:03 <r00t^home> kwtm2: you read that?!
Dec 19 11:43:47 <r00t^home> (he was the somebody)
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Dec 19 12:51:54 2011
Dec 19 13:37:22 <kwtm2> r00t^home: Thanks for notice.  Will see if that's why I can't write --the error was "read-only filesystem", so if this could have been fixed by just a chmod I shall be mytilipist
Dec 19 13:38:55 <cityLights> ~seen MohammadAG
Dec 19 13:38:59 <infobot> mohammadag is currently on #maemo (3h 16m 7s) #harmattan (3h 16m 7s) #meego (3h 16m 7s). Has said a total of 51 messages. Is idling for 1h 7m 19s, last said: 'Dropped?'.
Dec 19 13:39:30 <MohammadAG> ?
Dec 19 13:39:35 <cityLights> hi there
Dec 19 13:39:37 <MohammadAG> hi
Dec 19 13:39:44 <cityLights> how are you doing this warm day?
Dec 19 13:40:24 <cityLights> I was just at Eurocomm and saw the N9 for the first time
Dec 19 13:40:29 <MohammadAG> a bit tired, didn't sleep well last night :p
Dec 19 13:40:33 <MohammadAG> Eurocomm
Dec 19 13:40:38 <MohammadAG> isn't that in israel?
Dec 19 13:40:47 <cityLights> seems they are "testing" it for release here?
Dec 19 13:41:05 <kwtm2> Wait, what am I saying?  This is on a vfat system.  There *are* no permissions on vfat directories!
Dec 19 13:41:09 <MohammadAG> that wasn't expected
Dec 19 13:41:13 <MohammadAG> cityLights, through operators?
Dec 19 13:41:13 <cityLights> I didnt follow upm did you get you N9 dev kit?
Dec 19 13:41:50 <kwtm2> r00t^home: (to repeat) Wait, what am I saying?  This is on a vfat system.  There *are* no permissions on vfat directories!
Dec 19 13:41:50 <cityLights> their engineering team is using N9 
Dec 19 13:42:08 <kwtm2> I hear the N9 is more locked down than the N900.
Dec 19 13:42:10 <cityLights> MohammadAG: did you sell them Hnrew support?
Dec 19 13:42:26 <cityLights> s/Hnrew/hebrew/
Dec 19 13:42:26 <infobot> cityLights meant: MohammadAG: did you sell them hebrew support?
Dec 19 13:42:36 <MohammadAG> sell? I just made a keyboard layout
Dec 19 13:43:00 <cityLights> ok, but you wrote it - so you may get paid....
Dec 19 13:43:22 <MohammadAG> I already released it on tmo
Dec 19 13:43:29 <cityLights> I see
Dec 19 13:43:35 <MohammadAG> fmo
Dec 19 13:43:38 <MohammadAG> err, fmc
Dec 19 13:43:42 <cityLights> so you did finnaly get the N9 dev kit...
Dec 19 13:43:48 <MohammadAG> yeah
Dec 19 13:43:54 <cityLights> what is fmc?
Dec 19 13:44:05 <MohammadAG> forum.meego.com
Dec 19 13:44:15 <cityLights> Eurocomm should have got you the dev kit - IMHO
Dec 19 13:44:42 <cityLights> ok, As I am less stress now, can you please update me what is going on?
Dec 19 13:44:55 <cityLights> did you move to using the meego?
Dec 19 13:45:03 <cityLights> and dropped the N900?
Dec 19 13:46:14 <cityLights> Eurocomm claim that it is holding back on releasing the N9 , as it doesnt offer enougth program via the app store
Dec 19 13:46:52 <cityLights> I think that if it can run waze and sell less then the iPhone - it can succed
Dec 19 13:49:42 <MohammadAG> N900's still with me
Dec 19 13:52:40 <cityLights> I saw you need to sleep
Dec 19 13:52:51 <cityLights> maybe I can catch you later?
Dec 19 13:53:18 <cityLights> I have been away for sevral weeeks , and want to catch up
Dec 19 13:54:22 <MohammadAG> nah, not sleeping till night
Dec 19 13:54:31 <MohammadAG> gotta study a bit of physics later
Dec 19 13:54:34 <MohammadAG> so I have to stay up
Dec 19 13:55:03 <cityLights> what did you managed to get done with your N950?
Dec 19 13:55:12 <cityLights> QT?
Dec 19 14:01:29 <MohammadAG> Working on Sociality now
Dec 19 14:02:51 <MohammadAG> Yay, Qt app in Apple's app store http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/nbook/id481629437?mt=8
Dec 19 14:06:45 <flux> mohammadag, nice. when's the first one for WP7/8?-)
Dec 19 14:07:02 <MohammadAG> heh
Dec 19 14:11:50 <r00t^home> kwtm2: well, at least it gives a hint at why the rodir is there
Dec 19 14:12:13 <r00t^home> kwtm2: also, the dos filesystem driver DOES implement permissions, they are just not persisted to disk
Dec 19 14:12:28 <kwtm2> I guess ... I wonder if rodir is even the issue here, since MyDocs is also mounted rodir-wise and there's no problem with it.
Dec 19 14:12:42 <r00t^home> most likely not
Dec 19 14:13:01 <kwtm2> Now I just have to find 16GB of free space with which to back up my microSD.  I'll do it later.  More pressing things right now.
Dec 19 14:14:46 <kwtm2> I am *sooo* tempted to reformat my microSD to ext2/3 but I should just do vfat and make sure it runs before I reformat.
Dec 19 14:16:06 <kwtm2> This is so maddening.  I'm just trying to backup and restore to my second n900. :P .... Actually, the whole thing is so I can see if I can fix the problem with my email on the original n900.
Dec 19 14:16:30 <kwtm2> I can't receive email (when it had been working fine before) but I need to get a backup device running before I go tinker with my problem n900.
Dec 19 16:13:00 <PSleggs> is it true someone reverse engineered browserd?
Dec 19 16:14:22 <fw190> don't know a thing about it
Dec 19 16:16:53 <vi_> does bme REALLY need to poll i2c bus 5 times/second?
Dec 19 16:17:07 <vi_> the answer is no if you are wondering.
Dec 19 16:24:52 <SpeedEvil> It doesn't.
Dec 19 16:24:54 <SpeedEvil> IIRC
Dec 19 16:24:58 <SpeedEvil> It polls it once every 6
Dec 19 16:26:09 <SpeedEvil> IIRC
Dec 19 16:30:10 <vi_> it is still a pain in the balls
Dec 19 16:30:50 <vi_> anyway, I just noticed.  Even with bme stopped the mass storage/pc suite mode dialog still appears.
Dec 19 16:30:59 <vi_> how the F is that even possible?
Dec 19 16:31:15 <SpeedEvil> dsme?
Dec 19 16:31:25 <SpeedEvil> It's not BME that notices the usb
Dec 19 16:31:25 <vi_> I thought it was BME that was 'watching' usb port to detect plug/unplug action.
Dec 19 16:31:28 <SpeedEvil> I forget what it is
Dec 19 16:31:42 <vi_> well hose me down
Dec 19 16:31:58 <xqo> hi. what do you think of the N9? Would you buy it again?
Dec 19 16:32:11 * SpeedEvil checks bank statement.
Dec 19 16:32:22 <vi_> so I can actually stop bme and have have the charge21.sh start when usb is plugged in.
Dec 19 16:32:23 <SpeedEvil> Nope, not bought it the first time.
Dec 19 16:32:30 <vi_> xqo: fuck no.
Dec 19 16:32:33 <xqo> yeah but how good is it? :P
Dec 19 16:32:45 <xqo> can i write a python server, host it on the phone, ssh to it and run a python webscanner, for example?
Dec 19 16:32:45 <SpeedEvil> Someone remind me - what's ohmd
Dec 19 16:32:45 <vi_> xqo: it is an abortion.
Dec 19 16:32:49 <xqo> how limited is the N9?
Dec 19 16:32:51 <vi_> no wait, it is a koke
Dec 19 16:32:54 <vi_> ^joke
Dec 19 16:32:59 <vi_> actally i jest
Dec 19 16:33:03 <vi_> it is both
Dec 19 16:33:03 <SpeedEvil> xqo: yes.
Dec 19 16:33:04 <mgedmin_> xqo, I would buy a N9
Dec 19 16:33:20 <xqo> what is NOT so good about it?
Dec 19 16:33:25 <mgedmin_> no apps
Dec 19 16:33:38 <xqo> would i be better of with an android phone`?
Dec 19 16:33:39 <vi_> xqo: it is the worst of 2 worlds
Dec 19 16:33:44 <xqo> vi_ why?
Dec 19 16:34:07 <vi_> it sucks for all the old school maemo fans because it is so locked down and non functional.
Dec 19 16:34:15 * mgedmin_ wonders if xqo would hear more favourable reviews if he/she asked the same question in #n9 or #harmattan
Dec 19 16:34:20 <vi_> it sucks for teh kiddies because it aint got no appz
Dec 19 16:34:29 <vi_> and never will
Dec 19 16:35:05 <vi_> so pay your money and take your choice
Dec 19 16:35:23 <vi_> however right now N9 is little more than a light up paper weight.
Dec 19 16:35:42 <vi_> of course he would get a favourable response in #n9.
Dec 19 16:35:57 <vi_> They are ALL fighting a serious collective case of consumers guilt.
Dec 19 16:36:44 <xqo> vi_, what phone would you recommend then`?
Dec 19 16:37:16 <vi_> xqo: that depends entirely on usecase.
Dec 19 16:37:33 <vi_> If you want a top notch phone, consider a symbian.
Dec 19 16:37:49 <vi_> If you want a 'smartphone' with appz. Consider an android.
Dec 19 16:37:53 <xqo> i want python in a reasonably open phone that also works well for consumers
Dec 19 16:37:54 * mgedmin_ barfs at the mere thought of symbian, but whatever
Dec 19 16:38:04 <vi_> If you want a pocket computer, consider an n900.
Dec 19 16:38:15 <vi_> mgedmin_: what is wrong with symbian?
Dec 19 16:38:29 <vi_> mgedmin_: It is a far better OS that android.
Dec 19 16:39:05 <vi_> mgedmin_: it has multiple task scheduling and a bulletproof phone stack.
Dec 19 16:39:14 <vi_> ^gsm stack.
Dec 19 16:39:43 <vi_> xqo: those things don't go together.
Dec 19 16:40:48 <vi_> there never has and never will be a 'reasonable open phone' that simultaneously 'works well for consumers'
Dec 19 16:41:48 <mgedmin_> vi_, aesthetics/usability -- granted, I haven't seen _modern_ symbian versions
Dec 19 16:58:30 <vi_> MohammadAG: ping
Dec 19 17:14:47 <xqo> vi_
Dec 19 17:14:51 <xqo> what about this, http://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/09/openmobiles-acl-brings-250000-android-apps-meego/
Dec 19 17:16:32 <SpeedEvil> The Video below is a demo of ACL running on an x86 MeeGo tablet running Android Apps. 
Dec 19 17:17:19 <xqo> ""MeeGo powered Nokia N9 will run Android applications seamlessly""
Dec 19 17:17:21 <xqo> http://techbu.com/2011/06/23/meego-powered-nokia-n9-will-run-android-applications-seamlessly-with-alien-dalvik-android-emulator
Dec 19 17:18:37 <SpeedEvil> Myriad teams are having ongoing discussions with various Device  Manufacturers who may incorporate Myriad Alien Dalvik in their product  portfolio in the future. Keep tuned!
Dec 19 17:18:41 <SpeedEvil> IOW - never happening.
Dec 19 17:18:58 <SpeedEvil> Nokia are not going to pay them.
Dec 19 17:20:40 <jazedal> If FOSS had a better financial plan, there's no reason FOSS can't produce consumer quality apps.
Dec 19 17:20:42 <flux> they could put it to appstore and people could perhaps pay a few euros for it
Dec 19 17:20:50 <SpeedEvil> flux: sure
Dec 19 17:21:40 <SpeedEvil> It seems like they are uninterested in this though.
Dec 19 17:21:49 <SpeedEvil> Regrettably
Dec 19 18:04:49 <user___> what makes the dialog that appears when you plug in the USB cable?
Dec 19 18:05:08 <user___> The one that asks for mass storage or pc suite?
Dec 19 18:05:13 <user___> is it a script?
Dec 19 18:05:17 <user___> a program?
Dec 19 18:05:55 <user___> I see there is /usr/sbin/pcsuite-enable/disable and osso-mmc-mount/umount scripts
Dec 19 18:06:20 <user___> but they are only run when the respective dialog is chosen.
Dec 19 18:10:35 <vi__> ?
Dec 19 18:22:25 <StyXman> vi__: most probably something on hal
Dec 19 18:23:03 <vi__> ...yes
Dec 19 18:25:28 <NIN101> /usr/lib/hal/hald-addon-usb-cable
Dec 19 18:27:05 <MohammadAG> vi_, StyXman hal isn't userspace, anyway, it's the status menu applet
Dec 19 18:30:20 <vi__> so short of re-writing somthing (assuming it is even open) There is no obvious way to have a script executed by the plugging in of the usb cable?
Dec 19 18:30:30 <vi__> also without dbus-scripts and bme.
Dec 19 18:31:40 <NIN101> "hald-addon-usb-cable: listening on /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/usb1/../mode"
Dec 19 18:32:18 <vi__> NIN101: I do not follow.
Dec 19 18:32:23 <vi__> what are you saying?
Dec 19 18:32:43 <NIN101> one way: poll  /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/usb1/../mode 
Dec 19 18:33:15 <vi__> also, no polling
Dec 19 18:33:28 <vi__> the idea is to eliminate bme
Dec 19 18:33:41 <vi__> Charging can be handled by charge21.sh
Dec 19 18:33:42 <SpeedEvil> Why?
Dec 19 18:34:00 <SpeedEvil> Not that I'm not saying it's not a good idea.
Dec 19 18:34:09 <SpeedEvil> But the benefis in most cases are small.
Dec 19 18:34:20 <StyXman> SpeedEvil: too many negations
Dec 19 18:34:24 <vi__> SpeedEvil: because it sucks balls and causes many extra HW wakeups/second
Dec 19 18:34:31 <SpeedEvil> No, it doesn't.
Dec 19 18:34:40 <vi__> yeah it does.
Dec 19 18:34:45 <SpeedEvil> No, it doesn't.
Dec 19 18:34:52 <vi__> yeah it does.
Dec 19 18:34:57 <StyXman> err...
Dec 19 18:34:59 <SpeedEvil> No, it doesn't.
Dec 19 18:35:00 <vi__> yeah it does.
Dec 19 18:35:04 <NIN101> backupmenu just runs charge.sh with something like "charge.sh &" and that's it.
Dec 19 18:35:05 <SpeedEvil> Doesn't.
Dec 19 18:35:19 <vi__> run powertop with then without bme.
Dec 19 18:35:21 <NIN101> always active
Dec 19 18:35:43 <vi__> NIN101: always active charge script causes 100's of extra wakeups/second
Dec 19 18:36:01 <NIN101> well. 
Dec 19 18:36:02 <SpeedEvil> I get 6 wakeups in 30s
Dec 19 18:36:04 <SpeedEvil> which is right
Dec 19 18:36:17 <SpeedEvil> From what I recall
Dec 19 18:36:20 <SpeedEvil> With it unplugged
Dec 19 18:36:22 <MohammadAG> you can monitor dbus?
Dec 19 18:36:31 <vi__> I am talking about it spamming the i2c bus.
Dec 19 18:36:48 <SpeedEvil> vi: Reading I2C is almost free
Dec 19 18:36:57 <MohammadAG> vi_, monitor DBus
Dec 19 18:37:17 <SpeedEvil> vi: With BME in normal manner active, I've had my n900 logged into wifi and cell modem for over 5 days.
Dec 19 18:37:35 <vi__> SpeedEvil: lol, no u didnt.
Dec 19 18:37:45 <SpeedEvil> Yes. I did.
Dec 19 18:37:48 <StyXman> is it much of a problem to produce wakeups if you're charging? I understand it means charging slower, but how much?
Dec 19 18:38:00 <SpeedEvil> StyXman: essentially unmeasurable.
Dec 19 18:38:29 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption
Dec 19 18:38:44 <vi__> the problem is the wakeups while we are waiting for the device to be charging (i.e. when it is in normal operation)
Dec 19 18:39:13 <SpeedEvil> Umm - BME does 1 wakeup every 6s
Dec 19 18:40:04 <StyXman> well, I noticed that If I leave the n900 plugged in to the chager during all night, sometimes I wake up to an almost empty battery
Dec 19 18:40:20 <SpeedEvil> Tht may be a USB plug/soccket problem
Dec 19 18:40:40 <NIN101> I read that it doesn't recheck once led == green
Dec 19 18:40:42 <vi__> StyXman: then you have a serious problem.
Dec 19 18:41:09 <NIN101> but still yeah, it should be empty then...
Dec 19 18:41:24 <NIN101> *shouldn't
Dec 19 18:41:38 <SpeedEvil> StyXman: Unless you've got skype installed + 3G data active, in which case it's normal
Dec 19 18:42:14 <StyXman> SpeedEvil: I'm not sure about skype (I removed some soft I won't use) and I don't have 3G
Dec 19 18:45:18 <vi__> SpeedEvil: would you believe I got a 4000mS sleep time in powertop?
Dec 19 18:45:45 <StyXman> vi__: have you been seeing «get smart!» lately?
Dec 19 18:45:48 <StyXman> :-p
Dec 19 18:46:17 <SpeedEvil> vi_: yes - that's normal
Dec 19 18:46:24 <vi__> i dont understand
Dec 19 18:46:34 <StyXman> vi__: then ignore me
Dec 19 18:46:45 <SpeedEvil> ~3.6 is my usual. Though currently somethigns keeping the CPU active. I need to try to work out what I installed
Dec 19 18:46:46 <infobot> SpeedEvil: okay
Dec 19 18:46:55 <vi__> SpeedEvil: orly, I have never seen it before.
Dec 19 18:47:06 <vi__> SpeedEvil: what is the biggest culprit?
Dec 19 18:47:20 <SpeedEvil> Badly written stuff can drag it down
Dec 19 18:47:26 <SpeedEvil> Or up
Dec 19 18:47:27 <vi__> I found callnotify and batterygraph to be motherfuckers.
Dec 19 18:47:30 <SpeedEvil> yes
Dec 19 18:50:38 <vi__> what other things have you stripped out?
Dec 19 18:52:14 <SpeedEvil> Nothing.
Dec 19 18:52:23 <SpeedEvil> That is the base state on a freshly flashed device
Dec 19 18:52:35 <SpeedEvil> - with no wifi activity
Dec 19 18:53:05 <SpeedEvil> I'm not actually seeing that right now, as something is keeping my CPU in C1 all the time. grrr
Dec 19 18:53:54 <vi__> well I am quite far from a stock device
Dec 19 18:54:11 <vi__> I have already ripped out around 1/4 of startup junk.
Dec 19 18:55:07 <HyperSnyper> if i have skype logged in and running on my main system, then go afk and recieve message if login to same acc on n900 can i view previous messages ?
Dec 19 18:56:42 <SpeedEvil> vi__: why? 
Dec 19 18:56:47 <vi__> HyperSnyper: lol, i dunno.
Dec 19 18:56:58 <vi__> SpeedEvil: why wut?
Dec 19 18:58:20 <SpeedEvil> vi_: Why did you start ripping stuff out?
Dec 19 18:59:23 <StyXman> why not? having it as lean as possible should mean more disk space, less boot time and less processes potentially draining battery
Dec 19 18:59:33 <vi__> because I dont want to waste a single Hz from such a low power computer on crap like 'cherry' and '5 dots startup' and
Dec 19 18:59:55 <vi__> and operator name plugin
Dec 19 19:00:15 <StyXman> vi__: do you have a log of the things you have done?
Dec 19 19:00:31 <StyXman> I mean, is it written somewhere?
Dec 19 19:00:37 <vi__> StyXman: not really.  I have been evolving this setup since I got the n900.
Dec 19 19:00:42 <StyXman> heeh
Dec 19 19:00:49 <StyXman> good thing I just got it
Dec 19 19:00:49 <vi__> It is pretty simple though
Dec 19 19:01:02 <StyXman> it's almost pristine
Dec 19 19:01:25 <StyXman> vi__: did you change many things outside /etc?
Dec 19 19:01:29 <vi__> well you have not just bought a phone
Dec 19 19:01:32 <vi__> nor a computer
Dec 19 19:01:38 <vi__> you have just bought a hobby.
Dec 19 19:01:44 <StyXman> vi__: of course I did :)
Dec 19 19:01:54 <StyXman> actually, that's why I got it
Dec 19 19:02:12 <StyXman> I mean, that's why I got a n900 instead of any other smartphone
Dec 19 19:02:37 <StyXman> I would get a n950, but... :(
Dec 19 19:03:47 <vi__> StyXman: you dont want an n950
Dec 19 19:03:53 <vi__> they are gay
Dec 19 19:04:17 <StyXman> I don't mind about the phone's sex inclination at all...
Dec 19 19:04:41 <vi__> I want something that is hardware wise an n950 however completeley open.
Dec 19 19:05:06 <vi__> (however they can keep the gsm chip secret f they really want)
Dec 19 19:05:56 <StyXman> well, as far as I know, it's still a deb based base with a new interface
Dec 19 19:06:37 <NIN101> ~aegis
Dec 19 19:06:37 <infobot> http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or  http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif
Dec 19 19:07:16 <StyXman> dang, I have so many things to read!
Dec 19 19:07:51 <vi__> in short, the n950 is locked down tighter than a nuns vagoo
Dec 19 19:08:14 <StyXman> dang
Dec 19 19:08:25 <StyXman> well, then, then I got the best
Dec 19 19:10:32 <vi__> StyXman: how new a user are you?
Dec 19 19:10:52 <StyXman> for the n900? a couple of weeks
Dec 19 19:11:02 <StyXman> linux in general? 15 years and counting
Dec 19 19:11:23 <StyXman> I already ported strace to the n900 to find why marble wasn't loading
Dec 19 19:11:44 <vi__> StyXman: then you are in the best position to exploit the maximum potential from the device.
Dec 19 19:12:17 * advice_dog says dont install battery patch or speedpatch.
Dec 19 19:12:19 <StyXman> and the device is the most exploitable one
Dec 19 19:12:48 <StyXman> again, my strongest reason to buy this one
Dec 19 19:12:49 * advice_dog however look at the code to see some of things being done. some is kind of useful.
Dec 19 19:13:15 <vi__> StyXman: you have to think bigger.
Dec 19 19:13:19 <vi__> StyXman: buy 2
Dec 19 19:13:34 <StyXman> what for?
Dec 19 19:13:42 <StyXman> convert them to walkie talkies?
Dec 19 19:13:45 <StyXman> :-P
Dec 19 19:13:47 <StyXman> hmm!
Dec 19 19:13:48 <SpeedEvil> FaStrace has been on the n900 for ages
Dec 19 19:13:49 <StyXman> dang
Dec 19 19:13:51 <SpeedEvil> strace
Dec 19 19:14:07 <StyXman> SpeedEvil: I couldn't apt-get it
Dec 19 19:14:11 <StyXman> where?
Dec 19 19:14:12 <vi__> StyXman: are you uk?
Dec 19 19:14:17 <SpeedEvil> tools repo
Dec 19 19:14:28 <StyXman> vi__: well, an .it born in .ar living in .fr
Dec 19 19:14:35 <vi__> lol, ok.
Dec 19 19:14:36 <StyXman> SpeedEvil: aha
Dec 19 19:15:04 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5
Dec 19 19:15:27 <StyXman> wow
Dec 19 19:15:34 <StyXman> screen! yes! :-P
Dec 19 19:16:21 <StyXman> still, I plan to port some VCS and etckeeper to track my changes in /etc
Dec 19 19:16:27 <StyXman> SpeedEvil: tx
Dec 19 19:37:23 <DocScrutinizer> ~lart SpeedEvil 
Dec 19 19:37:24 * infobot puts SpeedEvil through a wood chipper
Dec 19 19:37:30 <DocScrutinizer> ~forget 3.6
Dec 19 19:37:31 <infobot> i forgot 3.6, DocScrutinizer
Dec 19 19:38:42 <DocScrutinizer> vi__: StyXman NIN101: listen to SpeedEvil - you all have wrong numbers and false facts
Dec 19 19:40:37 <NIN101> ok uncle! (would like to know which fact i got wrong though) 
Dec 19 19:41:16 <DocScrutinizer> the "doesn't recheck when >geeen<" non-fact
Dec 19 19:43:06 <NIN101> hmm ok. I blame TMO. 
Dec 19 19:43:21 <StyXman> DocScrutinizer: uhm?
Dec 19 19:44:40 <DocScrutinizer> that's my daily phone, on fastcharger, after 11h of xchat with 12 channels over 2G sucked the battery to 47%
Dec 19 19:45:06 <DocScrutinizer> http://paste.debian.net/149662/
Dec 19 19:48:20 <DocScrutinizer> and that's without charger and display, just doing IRC and WLAN and ssh: http://paste.debian.net/149663/
Dec 19 19:48:28 <DocScrutinizer> I can do this for a weeks
Dec 19 19:48:34 <DocScrutinizer> a week*
Dec 19 19:49:37 <DocScrutinizer> and I did no ultraspecial tricky optimization - au contraire I simply didn't install every shitty optimizer and/or widget I could find
Dec 19 19:49:48 <DocScrutinizer> and got rid of skype
Dec 19 19:50:25 <DocScrutinizer> and have no other IM than SIP (I actually forgot to mention that above^^^) and IRC
Dec 19 19:50:58 <SpeedEvil> Any thougts on why ohmd has suddenly decided to eat 1% of CPU, and keep my device active?
Dec 19 19:51:16 <DocScrutinizer> nope
Dec 19 19:51:19 <StyXman> I have no 3g, so it doesn't make much sense to have any communication app
Dec 19 19:51:39 <SpeedEvil> CPU time 2 hours, in 3 hours of uptime.
Dec 19 19:51:39 <SpeedEvil> :/
Dec 19 19:51:50 <DocScrutinizer> ouch
Dec 19 19:51:59 <StyXman> unluckily the closed packages use only dependencies, and in the wrong direction, I think
Dec 19 19:52:25 <StyXman> (f.i. I cna't deinstall languages I don't need)
Dec 19 19:58:55 <neal> DocScrutinizer: You get a week of use on a single charge?
Dec 19 19:59:26 <SpeedEvil> A week of standby
Dec 19 19:59:36 <DocScrutinizer> without use
Dec 19 19:59:45 <SpeedEvil> Or a week of reading SMSs incoming occasionally
Dec 19 19:59:52 <neal> oh, I guess I missed that
Dec 19 19:59:59 <StyXman> nice
Dec 19 19:59:59 <SpeedEvil> you're not going to get more than a few minutes of dispay-on time during that
Dec 19 20:01:27 <peb_> hi
Dec 19 20:11:44 <vi__> DocScrutinizer: care to tell me where I am wrong?
Dec 19 20:12:00 <vi__> DocScrutinizer: that seems to be your thing, telling people they are wrong.
Dec 19 20:12:39 <vi__> DocScrutinizer: I have nothing but respect for the shear level of knowledge you posess wrt embedded systems.
Dec 19 20:12:51 <vi__> DocScrutinizer: however you have a real problem.
Dec 19 20:13:24 <vi__> DocScrutinizer: you are a person to go so as splitting points on grammar just to tell somone they are wrong.
Dec 19 20:46:37 <jazedal> vi__: Note the name...DocScrutinizer
Dec 19 20:49:02 <DocScrutinizer> you're welcome to continue that "discussion" in #defocus
Dec 19 20:49:36 <DocScrutinizer> actually I think your last 6 posts are more of a self-reference than anything else
Dec 19 20:50:10 <DocScrutinizer> and this is the last but actually 3rd too much answering post on that
Dec 19 20:58:19 <ShadowJK> charge21.sh does one wakeup every 5 sec when charging, and about one every 15 when not charging. But because it's a script, it will look "better" than bme in powertop. I haven't checked, but I think bme should use less cpu actually.
Dec 19 20:59:11 <ShadowJK> btw also, when USB is active (as in when you're charging), wakeups are kinda not all that important because the device never goes to C4 sleep anyway.
Dec 19 21:04:00 <ShadowJK> vi_, as DocScrutinizer said, the "doesn't check again after green" is incorrect. Indeed, the green light isn't synchronized with the charger, that is, the green light can come on before the battery is full, or a few hours after (as measured by the charger itself), depending on the circumstances. However, what is true however, is that a transient problem like a glitching cable or port, can make bme retry with lower charge current, if it does that too often
Dec 19 21:04:06 <ShadowJK>  it'll end up charging slower than consumption (as just having stuff connects to USB adds a constant powerdraw), and from that situation it (bme) doesn't retry with higher current.
Dec 19 21:09:44 <ShadowJK> StyXman, communication apps don't make much sense on 3g either. Only thing that makes sense on 3g is huge downloads.
Dec 19 21:09:47 <ShadowJK> :P
Dec 19 21:13:37 <neal> ShadowJK: You mean because of 3g's high ramp up / tail energy?
Dec 19 21:13:48 <neal> ShadowJK: or what's the problem?
Dec 19 21:13:55 <ShadowJK> yes
Dec 19 21:15:23 <ShadowJK> a one-time transfer of, say, 5 kilobytes, will on some networks use as much energy as a databurst of MegaBytes..
Dec 19 21:27:02 <vi__> ShadowJK: wtf? I never suggested that bme does not check after green light.  That was someone else.
Dec 19 21:27:53 <vi__> NIN101> I read that it doesn't recheck once led == green
Dec 19 21:35:14 <ShadowJK> oops sorry, that was for NIN101 then? :P
Dec 19 21:54:36 <Pali> ping X-Fade
Dec 19 21:56:21 <Pali> ~seen X-Fade
Dec 19 21:56:32 <infobot> x-fade is currently on #maemo (20h 42m 50s) #harmattan (20h 42m 50s) #meego (20h 42m 50s), last said: 'pawky: yes'.
Dec 19 22:18:28 <psychologe> install mappero,gread application, but used google maps,  place name is english,,i am in chian ,,how change place name to chinese?
Dec 19 22:41:12 <Pali> merlin1991, did you got answer from nokia about l10n?
Dec 19 22:41:18 <merlin1991> so far not
Dec 19 22:41:26 <Pali> ok
Dec 19 22:45:25 <Pali> merlin1991, how was modest-l10n package imported into gitorious?
Dec 19 22:45:38 <Pali> I was not able to find sources for modest-l10n too
Dec 19 22:49:17 <merlin1991> Pali: actually I don't know that
Dec 19 22:53:05 <luke-jr> anyone have a Qt-based camera app yet?
Dec 19 22:56:43 <merlin1991> luke-jr: the camera input is gestreamer afaik, noone does gestreamer with qt :D
Dec 19 22:57:18 <luke-jr> merlin1991: Qt does support gstreamer, and gstreamer shouldn't be needed for cams
Dec 19 23:55:45 <Macer> wow
Dec 19 23:55:45 <Macer> htc devices banned from the us lol
Dec 19 23:56:52 <txt_file> Hello. I have a problem with my osso-xterm. I lost the mouse option a few minutes ago when i tried to increase the scrollback. Has someone any idea how to get it back?
Dec 19 23:58:21 <Macer> http://www.slashgear.com/itc-rules-in-favor-of-apple-bans-htc-devices-in-us-19203300/
Dec 20 00:02:57 <txt_file> It is pretty stupid not to be able to scroll in xterm.
Dec 20 02:59:33 <doctorkohaku> is it possible to run the BME inside a different OS?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Dec 20 02:59:57 2011