**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 05 02:59:57 2012
Jan 05 09:56:20 <FIQ> so I have the uboot bootloader, and an uImage in /boot on my mmc... now I just need to figure out how to use it
Jan 05 09:56:40 <FIQ> wasn't as trivial as a "run mmcboot" from the uboot prompt anyway D:
Jan 05 09:56:55 <FIQ> anyone willing to help, or do I need to figure it out by myself?
Jan 05 10:02:09 <r00t|home> nobody awake, and not something  can help with, sorry
Jan 05 10:02:30 <r00t|home> consider that it's middle of the night in the us
Jan 05 10:03:13 <FIQ> heh, ok
Jan 05 10:10:20 <DocScrutinizer51> depends on your uBoot(-config)
Jan 05 10:16:28 <FIQ> atm the u-boot is in its' vanilla state (the state provided by uboot-pr13). I have an uImage on /boot @ MMC (/dev/mmcblk1p1). I'm reading up on how u-boot works at the moment, but it seems pretty lowlevel
Jan 05 10:17:38 <FIQ> (i.e. a bit hard for me to understand)
Jan 05 10:18:33 <FIQ> the MMC is formatted as an ext3 partition
Jan 05 10:23:44 <burr> i cant boot debian to save my life
Jan 05 10:24:06 <burr> i get silly errors like /dev/mmcblk0p1: unable to mount root fs. list of fs... /dev/mmcblk0p1
Jan 05 10:24:12 <burr> with the 2.6.37 in rescueOS and root=/dev/mmcblk0pp1
Jan 05 10:24:22 <burr> and u-boot errors are even worse and sooner
Jan 05 10:24:44 <burr> 2 years ago i booted debian with absolutely no hassles using bootmenu
Jan 05 10:24:46 <burr> now that is broken too
Jan 05 10:24:48 <trist4n> this is a ridiculous question, but i am stuck. do you think i could use my n900 as a boot medium to install windows.
Jan 05 10:24:53 <trist4n> i have literally no other storage.
Jan 05 10:25:04 <burr> as usb-storage i think so
Jan 05 10:25:16 <trist4n> im not sure how i should partition this really
Jan 05 10:25:36 <burr> its 1000x easier to put Paludis, Portage, Pacman, or debootstrap on a USB storage and install linux
Jan 05 10:25:44 <FIQ> does it fit?
Jan 05 10:25:49 <trist4n> its only a 3.2gb iso
Jan 05 10:25:52 <FIQ> @ trist4n 
Jan 05 10:25:54 <FIQ> ah
Jan 05 10:26:10 <FIQ> should work then... allbeit slow
Jan 05 10:26:11 <trist4n> could i uh
Jan 05 10:26:13 <trist4n> hm
Jan 05 10:26:18 <FIQ> i guess
Jan 05 10:26:20 <trist4n> use my /home/user/MyDocs partition
Jan 05 10:26:22 <trist4n> and just restore it later
Jan 05 10:27:02 <burr> all sorts of MBR / NTLDR / bootmgr voodoo has to be exactly correct
Jan 05 10:27:02 <trist4n> its that or install windows 7 over tftp and a crossover cable, maybe that would be better.
Jan 05 10:27:08 <burr> even down to arbitrary start offsets of partitions etc
Jan 05 10:27:15 <burr> theres windows utilities that set up USB storage to boot windows
Jan 05 10:27:18 <burr> and a few shell scripts
Jan 05 10:27:22 <burr> i really wouldnt bother unless you find one of those utils
Jan 05 10:27:39 <trist4n> mmm.
Jan 05 10:27:47 <trist4n> maybe the tftp would be the way to go
Jan 05 10:28:02 <burr> BartPE or so
Jan 05 10:28:12 <burr> and then moutn your install media over samba
Jan 05 10:28:21 <burr> that works, if you acn get bartpe booting from n900's mass-storage
Jan 05 10:28:28 <burr> only needs 256mb or so
Jan 05 10:29:00 <trist4n> yeah thats the million dollar question ey.
Jan 05 10:29:08 <trist4n> hmm i might have an old usnb that would fit bartpe on it
Jan 05 10:29:11 <burr> ive only ever installed windows off USB-storage
Jan 05 10:29:13 <burr> its a pita, but doable
Jan 05 10:29:23 <trist4n> yeah ive had to do it before as well
Jan 05 10:29:25 <burr> one time i had to 'recovery shell' XCOPY the install files to HD from USB
Jan 05 10:29:31 <burr> cuz it was too dumb to see the HD when USB was plugged in
Jan 05 10:29:31 <trist4n> on holidays trying to setup someones netbook, unfortunately i dont have a usb that can hold it
Jan 05 10:30:59 <burr> FIQ: which u-boot do you have? http://gitorious.org/u-boot-shr/u-boot hopefully
Jan 05 10:31:12 <burr> ive gotten the furthest with that one, but still errors once kernel is going heh
Jan 05 10:31:23 <burr> complicating this is initfs!=initrd i think
Jan 05 10:31:36 <burr> all this one-off crap... NOLO.. FIASCO
Jan 05 10:32:15 <burr> add in a bzip2'd squashfs on a ramdisk and blahblah.. why is it not simple like installing linux on x86 heh
Jan 05 10:32:31 <burr> im about to just give up and go buy an ANdroid device 
Jan 05 10:32:43 <burr> maemo keeps shitting itself..
Jan 05 10:33:29 <burr> even after fresh reflash, apps will start losing their settings after a while etc. im wondering if maybe ive got bad flash blocks
Jan 05 10:33:58 <burr> i mean, its ext2 not jffs2 but i guess the hw has block-masking, if its any decent (perhaps why its so slow?)
Jan 05 10:35:29 <burr> im crazy enough to have written my own email-client, news-aggregator, spreadsheet/log slicing-dicing tools etc, but the reality is theyre haskell & ruby code with a browser UI, and at least the ruby part runs perfectly on iOS 
Jan 05 10:35:37 <burr> so theres really no reason to be a slave to this abandoned stuff anymore
Jan 05 10:36:10 <burr> so.. yeah. nokia device.. never again
Jan 05 10:36:11 <burr> cya
Jan 05 10:47:15 <FIQ> hmm, fun
Jan 05 10:48:24 <FIQ> seems I want mmcinit; ext3load mmc 0:1 0x800000 /boot/uImage (the 0x800000 might be able to be something else)
Jan 05 10:48:38 <FIQ> the only problem: 'mmcinit' not found, try 'help'
Jan 05 10:48:56 <FIQ> (the same with ext3load, but there's ext2load)
Jan 05 10:50:34 <FIQ> if I ignore mmcboot and use ext2load, it ends up outputting "Bad partition 0:1" (and i know it's fully functional)
Jan 05 10:57:48 <vallhalla> Good day all
Jan 05 10:59:44 <kerio> burr: :(
Jan 05 11:18:05 <vallhalla> kerio: why the sad face?
Jan 05 12:29:12 <fredddd> I am having an SSL error issue with Jabber inside Maemo.
Jan 05 12:29:42 <fredddd> I have setup my own ejabberd server with a valid certificate from a trusted authority. On my desktop client Gajim, everything goes fine, and it connects without any SSL warning (or having any option ticked to ignore them).
Jan 05 12:29:53 <fredddd> While on Maemo Jabber, I can not connect unless I keep "ignore SSL errors" ticked. =/
Jan 05 12:30:10 <fredddd> Would anyone be able to help me with this?
Jan 05 12:33:11 <chem|st> fredddd: you might need to install the servers certificate to get it working that way
Jan 05 12:33:36 <fredddd> Hm, but they should be in the certificate repository, no?
Jan 05 12:33:44 <chem|st> who
Jan 05 12:34:08 <chem|st> self signed certs without signed root cert is common
Jan 05 12:34:58 <fredddd> It is not self signed.
Jan 05 12:35:04 <fredddd> It is a COMODO certificate.
Jan 05 12:35:11 <fredddd> I did not create it myself, I got it from a trusted certificate authority, I was hoping Maemo would pick up on those.
Jan 05 12:36:29 <fredddd> If I figure out the openssl command to test the connection, I could indicate if it is a mistake on my side or if it is a software fault.
Jan 05 12:41:36 <fredddd> At first sight, it seems to be a mistake on my side.
Jan 05 12:41:40 <fredddd> Will fix and report how it went.
Jan 05 12:53:01 <fredddd> chem|st, I am not sure.
Jan 05 12:53:10 <fredddd> CONNECTED(00000003)
Jan 05 12:53:10 <fredddd> 2135:error:140770FC:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:unknown protocol:s23_clnt.c:607:
Jan 05 12:53:20 <fredddd> My desktop client connects without issues, no SSL error or warning.
Jan 05 12:53:50 <fredddd> Looking up what that SSL error means with ejabberd, it seemed like software incompatibility with OpenSSL or something, not sure, I think I am a bit too much of a newbie to conclude. D:
Jan 05 12:55:19 <hhartz> has anyone experienced processes still being alive after closing in recents view on N9?
Jan 05 12:56:56 <fredddd> Wait, what?
Jan 05 12:57:03 <fredddd> Are you asking for N9 help in here? D:
Jan 05 12:58:39 <hhartz> hehe, faux pas
Jan 05 13:56:30 <bindi> hey
Jan 05 13:56:49 <bindi> i took my n900 to nokia care - they were hesitant to take it in.. and said that they don't cover the white spots that many people do
Jan 05 13:57:18 <bindi> "no official notice about white spots and replacing/fixing units has been given" or something
Jan 05 13:57:26 <bindi> after 10 mins they took it in and promised to replace the screen
Jan 05 14:04:05 <edheldil> bindi:  what white spots? I have noticeable lighter spots on display when it's white, but they're not not obtrusive enough to do anything about it
Jan 05 14:09:55 <Sicelo> ~otoh
Jan 05 14:09:55 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, otoh is On The Other Hand.  It's YAFA.
Jan 05 14:10:12 <Sicelo> -yafa
Jan 05 14:10:21 <Sicelo> ~yafa
Jan 05 14:10:21 <infobot> i guess yafa is Yet Another Freakin Acronym.
Jan 05 14:14:53 <bindi> edheldil: those exactly
Jan 05 14:14:57 <bindi> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=956232&postcount=171
Jan 05 14:20:22 <Raimu> Nokia Care would probably just give you a new cellphone from a different line if the white specks (that I also have) were an issue, anyway.
Jan 05 14:21:53 <bindi> right well
Jan 05 14:21:57 <bindi> it is an issue :P
Jan 05 14:22:03 <bindi> your phone isnt supposed to have white spots on the screen
Jan 05 14:23:17 <bindi> "I had the dual bright spots. Nokia Care Point replaced the whole unit."
Jan 05 14:27:19 <jani> bindi: lucky sob.. i took mine for repairs got e7 back =)
Jan 05 14:27:42 <bindi> i asked them am i to expect a repaired n900 or an e7
Jan 05 14:27:55 <bindi> they said they'll replace the screen, which will take time
Jan 05 14:28:00 <bindi> and apparently, the spots will just come back
Jan 05 14:28:05 <bindi> so i'll take it back as soon as that happens
Jan 05 14:30:22 <bindi> jani: do you happen to have a receipt for that operation? :P
Jan 05 14:30:42 <bindi> she really didnt believe that many n900s have this problem and insisted that it's water damage
Jan 05 16:30:04 <mueddib> hello
Jan 05 16:30:27 <penguinbait> howdy
Jan 05 16:45:48 <netadmin> sorry, I have a question
Jan 05 16:46:04 <netadmin> where is the maemo flasher 3.5 debian installed package?
Jan 05 16:55:23 <ruskie> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/05/nokia-will-sell-crown-jewels-to-microsoft/
Jan 05 16:57:10 <beford> !flash
Jan 05 16:57:13 <beford> ~flash
Jan 05 16:57:14 <infobot> i heard maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Jan 05 16:58:29 <merlin1991> netadmin: in case you heaven't found it already: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php
Jan 05 16:58:43 <netadmin> merlin1991, thank you I installed
Jan 05 17:07:23 <Pali> ping X-Fade
Jan 05 17:07:25 <fredddd> Does anyone know if it is possible to properly connect with Maemo's Jabber with no SSL errors through STARTTLS?
Jan 05 17:07:34 <Pali> ~seen X-Fade
Jan 05 17:07:44 <infobot> x-fade is currently on #maemo #harmattan #meego. Has said a total of 117 messages. Is idling for 3h 45m 26s, last said: 'lunch, brb'.
Jan 05 17:07:54 <fredddd> I have setup my own ejabberd server with a valid certificate, and I can not connect to it through Maemo's default Jabber client without having "Ignore SSL Errors" ticked.
Jan 05 17:09:18 <freemangordon> Pali, this lunch reminds me of hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy. I wish it was funny.
Jan 05 17:09:47 <netadmin> sorry, I have a question
Jan 05 17:10:07 <netadmin> How can I root maemo 5?
Jan 05 17:10:14 <netadmin> I using Nokia N900
Jan 05 17:10:17 <fredddd> There is an application for it in the repository I believe.
Jan 05 17:10:23 <fredddd> To enable it.
Jan 05 17:10:32 <fredddd> The Maemo wiki has a page on it as well, I think.
Jan 05 17:10:33 <netadmin> what is application name?
Jan 05 17:10:38 <netadmin> okay I checked
Jan 05 17:10:48 <fredddd> http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access
Jan 05 17:10:52 <freemangordon> rootsh
Jan 05 17:15:14 <edheldil> fredddd:  I think I have the same problem. Could it be due to an unknown CA?
Jan 05 17:17:48 <fredddd> edheldil, the certificate is fine, generated by a trusted authority.
Jan 05 17:17:53 <netadmin> fredddd, ok thanks I installed
Jan 05 17:17:54 <netadmin> :)
Jan 05 17:17:57 <fredddd> The certificate is also running at http://expressionate.org
Jan 05 17:18:16 <fredddd> Visiting the website on Maemo browser gives no sign of an invalid certificate either.
Jan 05 17:18:32 <fredddd> I think Maemo's Jabber is incompatible with XMPP STARTTLS wise.
Jan 05 17:18:49 <fredddd> I enabled the old SSL method at port 5223 and verified with OpenSSL and there were no errors.
Jan 05 17:19:01 <Robot101> ?! no, starttls works fine
Jan 05 17:19:03 <fredddd> So I am considering everything is fine on my side, as Gajim (desktop client) connects fine without any SSL errors.
Jan 05 17:19:11 <fredddd> On Maemo's Jabber client?
Jan 05 17:19:18 <Robot101> yes
Jan 05 17:19:27 <fredddd> Robot101, can you connect with Jabber to your XMPP network, having "Ignore SSL errors" unticked?
Jan 05 17:19:31 <fredddd> I can connect as long as that is ticked.
Jan 05 17:19:57 <edheldil> do you have 'old certificate' ticket? No idea what's that
Jan 05 17:20:02 <edheldil> ticked
Jan 05 17:20:17 <fredddd> What do you mean?
Jan 05 17:20:29 <fredddd> Old certificate ticked?
Jan 05 17:23:21 <edheldil> There are checkboxes for 'Require encryption', 'Use old SSL cert', 'Ignore SSL cert errors' ... 
Jan 05 17:24:24 <Robot101> fredddd: does your certificate belong to expressionate.org or xmpp.expressionate.org?
Jan 05 17:24:35 <Robot101> openssl s_client is being a dick so I can't check atm
Jan 05 17:30:13 <fredddd> Robot101, all of them.
Jan 05 17:30:18 <fredddd> The certificate covers all subdomains.
Jan 05 17:30:45 <Robot101> does it cover expressionate.org itself though?
Jan 05 17:30:50 <fredddd> Yes.
Jan 05 17:31:01 <fredddd> The initial domain and the sub domains, one certificate for everything.
Jan 05 17:33:40 <edheldil> well, the short name is in SubjAltName, though - maybe Maemo's jabber is stupid?
Jan 05 17:34:21 <Robot101> I can't remember which version of telepathy is running on the N900
Jan 05 17:34:26 <fredddd> x.x
Jan 05 17:34:29 <Robot101> dpkg -l telepathy-gabble ?
Jan 05 17:34:39 <fredddd> Apparently an out-dated noe.
Jan 05 17:34:44 <fredddd> one*
Jan 05 17:34:56 <fredddd> I do not believe a lot gets updated on Maemo.
Jan 05 17:34:58 <Robot101> well obviously it's old, but I want to look at the corresponding source :)
Jan 05 17:35:04 <fredddd> I have only seen libraries get updated with CSSU, really. =/
Jan 05 17:35:57 <fredddd> It seems to have broken at PR1.2, having people to click Ignore SSL Errors, when trying to look for a solution myself online.
Jan 05 17:36:36 <Robot101> really? hrm
Jan 05 17:36:38 <Robot101> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/telepathy/telepathy-gabble/log/?h=telepathy-gabble-0.8
Jan 05 17:36:43 <Robot101> the 0.8 branch was for Maemo
Jan 05 17:41:48 <netadmin> maemo updated 2011.38-1
Jan 05 17:42:08 <Robot101> fredddd: hrm, the SSL code is inside loudmouth on the N900
Jan 05 17:44:19 <Robot101> er how do you get the actual source?
Jan 05 17:44:29 <Robot101> I'm going round in circles on http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_ssu_pr1-2_armel/libloudmouth1-0/1.4.1-0osso10+0m5/
Jan 05 17:45:18 <edheldil> package source? apt-get source or st. like that
Jan 05 17:45:46 <Robot101> yeah I've not had any working scratchbox configured for maemo for years
Jan 05 17:57:00 <fredddd> Robot101, keep me updated with your progress and findings.
Jan 05 17:57:20 <Robot101> I've kinda stalled
Jan 05 17:57:30 <Robot101> I wanted to find the maemo patches to loudmouth which add OpenSSL support
Jan 05 17:57:49 <Robot101> that code is maemo-specific and untested outside of maemo, even though the XMPP stack is widely used elsewhere
Jan 05 17:58:13 <Robot101> it's entirely possible that just doesn't test SubjAltName
Jan 05 17:58:25 <Robot101> either a bug in that lm+OpenSSL code or a bug in Maemo's OpenSSL patches
Jan 05 17:59:20 <merlin1991> Robot101: http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_sdk_free_source/loudmouth/1.4.1-0osso10+0m5/
Jan 05 17:59:28 <merlin1991> there's your source
Jan 05 17:59:36 <edheldil> pm me if you find st. interesting. Bye ...
Jan 05 18:00:02 <merlin1991> http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/l/loudmouth/
Jan 05 18:00:51 <Robot101> yeah so just inspecting trivially, it only gets the common name there
Jan 05 18:02:47 <Robot101> so that's why it doesn't work
Jan 05 18:03:16 <Robot101> if you override the server name, put manually, xmpp.expressionate.org, then it won't do a SRV lookup, but the certificate should match
Jan 05 18:03:22 <Robot101> that's my best guess at a workaround
Jan 05 18:03:24 <Robot101> sorry :/
Jan 05 18:04:10 <netadmin> I don't installed rootsh :(
Jan 05 18:04:53 <Robot101> fredddd: ^^
Jan 05 18:05:01 <Robot101> edheldil: do you also have a cert with SubjAltName
Jan 05 18:06:46 <netadmin> enable rd mode if you want to break your device
Jan 05 18:06:53 <netadmin> what is RD mode enabled?
Jan 05 18:10:33 <merlin1991> you can use flasher to enable R&D mode
Jan 05 18:11:11 <fredddd> Robot101, going to try.
Jan 05 18:11:23 <fredddd> But it would be weird, as the certificate applies for *.expressionate.org (thus anything, and nothing, too, normally).
Jan 05 18:11:26 <NIN101> somebody who asks what R&D mode is shouldn't enable it few minutes after he asked that question.
Jan 05 18:11:41 <Robot101> fredddd: yes, so xmpp.expressionate.org should match it
Jan 05 18:11:43 <merlin1991> NIN101: agreed :D
Jan 05 18:11:44 <NIN101> but http://wiki.maemo.org/R%26D_mode 
Jan 05 18:11:47 <fredddd> xmpp.expressionate.org is nothing but a CNAME to the A / AAAA record acantha.expressionate.org (the actual server).
Jan 05 18:11:56 <Robot101> *.foo doesn't match foo in these contexts
Jan 05 18:12:30 <fredddd> And the SRV records for XMPP client and server point to xmpp.expressionate.org, is this why?
Jan 05 18:12:46 <Robot101> actually I didn't quite stay to understand the code but you can read it fairly easily in lm-ssl-openssl.c
Jan 05 18:13:04 * fredddd crosses fingers
Jan 05 18:17:36 <Robot101> maybe this wildcard code is just broken
Jan 05 18:26:18 <netadmin> hey,  maemo extras repository is not running?
Jan 05 18:29:44 <fredddd> Robot101, no luck setting xmpp.expressionate.org.
Jan 05 18:30:04 <fredddd> It would be helpful if I could look up the SSL error that is actually blocking it from connecting.
Jan 05 18:43:20 <merlin1991> netadmin: it is running
Jan 05 18:43:27 <netadmin> fredddd, I installed openssh-client and openssh-server
Jan 05 18:43:45 <netadmin> merlin1991, yes I running! but i install openssh-client and openssh-server
Jan 05 18:44:03 <netadmin> my ip adresses is 172.16.1.2 nokia n900 ip 172.16.1.9
Jan 05 18:44:11 <netadmin> I'm not ping nokia n900
Jan 05 18:44:15 <netadmin> what is problem? you think?
Jan 05 18:45:01 <fredddd> What do you mean?
Jan 05 18:45:08 <netadmin> I'm not connect to ssh.
Jan 05 18:45:23 <fredddd> Oh I thought this was related to the Maemo's Jabber SSL error thing.
Jan 05 18:45:27 <netadmin> fredddd, I installed openssh-client and server on the Maemo (N900)
Jan 05 18:45:36 <fredddd> Ah.
Jan 05 18:45:49 <netadmin> I using laptop, my laptop ip is 172.16.1.2
Jan 05 18:45:54 <netadmin> n900 ip is 172.16.1.9
Jan 05 18:46:05 <netadmin> I'm not ping n900 and not connect to ssh :(
Jan 05 18:46:31 <netadmin> what is your using tablet model?
Jan 05 18:46:40 <fredddd> You can open the terminal and do things in there.
Jan 05 18:46:41 <netadmin> do you connect to tablet on the ssh ports?
Jan 05 18:46:48 <fredddd> Unless you prefer to do mobile phone operations from your desktop.
Jan 05 18:46:51 <fredddd> I do not SSH at all.
Jan 05 18:46:53 <fredddd> To my phone.
Jan 05 18:46:58 <netadmin> ok
Jan 05 18:47:06 <fredddd> I have little need for advanced terminal operations on my N900.
Jan 05 18:47:21 <fredddd> I just use it for XMPP, email, calendar, contacts and considering RSS if I can make it pleasant.
Jan 05 18:48:03 <netadmin> fredddd, okay I understand but why not connect to ssh n900?
Jan 05 18:48:22 <Sicelo> netadmin: u use wifi or what?
Jan 05 18:48:33 <netadmin> Sicelo, yes I using Wifi
Jan 05 18:48:37 <netadmin> N900 connect wifi
Jan 05 18:48:41 <netadmin> my laptop connect ewifi
Jan 05 18:49:00 <netadmin> both of which received ip address, not problem
Jan 05 18:49:07 <fredddd> My nommy N900 desktop: http://ompldr.org/vYjU2Yg/fredwp-rawr-mobile-device.png
Jan 05 18:49:13 <Sicelo> u have an access point or using Ad-Hoc?
Jan 05 18:49:28 <fredddd> netadmin, no need for it.
Jan 05 18:49:38 <fredddd> If I want to SSH to anything I will SSH to my servers. =p
Jan 05 18:50:37 <netadmin> Sicelo, hm my modem is ad-hoc :)
Jan 05 18:51:04 <Sicelo> modem? :P
Jan 05 18:51:29 <netadmin> N900 and my laptop connect to wifi modem :) wifi modem serve DHCP
Jan 05 18:51:38 <netadmin> yes internet modem + router
Jan 05 18:51:52 <netadmin> modem ip add is 172.16.1.1
Jan 05 18:52:05 <Sicelo> anyway, paste 'ifconfig wlan0' from n900 . and also from your laptop
Jan 05 18:52:14 <Sicelo> don't paste here btw :)
Jan 05 18:52:48 <netadmin> I ping modem
Jan 05 18:52:49 <netadmin> # ping 172.16.1.1
Jan 05 18:52:49 <netadmin> PING 172.16.1.1 (172.16.1.1) 56(84) bytes of data.
Jan 05 18:52:49 <netadmin> 64 bytes from 172.16.1.1: icmp_req=1 ttl=64 time=2.38 ms
Jan 05 18:52:51 <netadmin> 64 bytes from 172.16.1.1: icmp_req=2 ttl=64 time=1.81 ms
Jan 05 18:53:04 <netadmin> yes yes I checked
Jan 05 18:53:06 <netadmin> wait
Jan 05 18:53:30 <Sicelo> u were pinging from n900?
Jan 05 18:53:36 <netadmin> this is my laptop:
Jan 05 18:53:37 <netadmin> # ifconfig wlan0
Jan 05 18:53:37 <netadmin> wlan0     Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:22:5f:1d:de:0e  
Jan 05 18:53:37 <netadmin>           inet addr:172.16.1.10
Jan 05 18:54:02 <netadmin> and
Jan 05 18:54:07 <netadmin> this is N900
Jan 05 18:54:08 <netadmin> # ifconfig wlan0
Jan 05 18:54:08 <netadmin> wlan0     Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:22:5f:1d:de:0e  
Jan 05 18:54:08 <netadmin>           inet addr:172.16.1.9
Jan 05 18:54:47 <netadmin> N900 not pinging 172.16.1.1 :(
Jan 05 18:54:52 <netadmin> ah no
Jan 05 18:54:55 <netadmin> pinging!
Jan 05 18:55:02 <fredddd> Robot101, any luck with SSL or did you give up? :3
Jan 05 18:55:13 <Sicelo> lol netadmin 
Jan 05 18:55:18 <fredddd> The xmpp.expressionate.org server pointing did not work, even rebooted my device in attempt for it to automatically work after reboot, it did not.
Jan 05 18:55:50 <netadmin> Sicelo, N900 pinging modem (172.16.1.1) and not ping my laptop (172.16.1.10)
Jan 05 18:56:18 <netadmin> I checked modem?
Jan 05 18:56:46 <netadmin> # ping 172.16.1.9
Jan 05 18:56:46 <netadmin> PING 172.16.1.9 (172.16.1.9) 56(84) bytes of data.
Jan 05 18:56:46 <netadmin> From 172.16.1.10 icmp_seq=1 Destination Host Unreachable
Jan 05 18:56:46 <netadmin> From 172.16.1.10 icmp_seq=2 Destination Host Unreachable
Jan 05 18:57:21 <netadmin> my laptop not ping N900, I dislike :(
Jan 05 18:57:40 <Sicelo> netadmin: dont paste this stuff here. Please
Jan 05 18:57:54 <netadmin> ah okay, sorry I using pastebin. sorry:
Jan 05 18:58:13 <Sicelo> :)
Jan 05 18:59:08 <Sicelo> so, n900 pings your 'modem', laptop pings 'modem', but they can't ping one another, right?
Jan 05 19:00:22 <netadmin> yes
Jan 05 19:00:38 <netadmin> n900 not ping laptop and laptop not ping n900 :(
Jan 05 19:01:00 <netadmin> and  I not ssh connection laptop -> n900
Jan 05 19:01:12 <OkropNick> netadmin: the same MAC address on both machines?
Jan 05 19:01:39 <netadmin> OkropNick, I checked and no.
Jan 05 19:01:53 <netadmin> I checked arp tables
Jan 05 19:02:20 <netadmin> ah
Jan 05 19:02:33 <netadmin> this is problem:
Jan 05 19:02:33 <netadmin> # arp -a | grep 9
Jan 05 19:02:34 <netadmin> ? (172.16.3.9) at <incomplete> on wlan0
Jan 05 19:02:49 <netadmin> MAC is incomplete hmm
Jan 05 19:03:23 <Sicelo> how did u bring up N900 wifi?
Jan 05 19:03:35 <netadmin> Maemo not support "arp" command?
Jan 05 19:03:46 <OkropNick> I'm not good in net configuration, but it was just strange for me
Jan 05 19:04:11 <Sicelo> me too OkropNick :)
Jan 05 19:04:11 <netadmin> N900 connected Wifi and connect internet :)
Jan 05 19:04:40 <netadmin> not problem I addedd extras repos install rootsh, openssh client and server package.
Jan 05 19:04:42 <netadmin> I checked
Jan 05 19:04:55 <netadmin> wait thanks for all help friend, good night.
Jan 05 19:05:06 <Sicelo> lol
Jan 05 19:05:47 <netadmin> Settings -> Internet Connections
Jan 05 19:06:02 <netadmin> connect wi-fi search interval never
Jan 05 19:06:31 <netadmin> Maemo don't support arp command?
Jan 05 19:06:36 <Sicelo> netadmin: i suspect your modem configuration.
Jan 05 19:06:50 <Sicelo> yes.. no arp by default
Jan 05 19:07:21 <netadmin> arp package have to extras repos?
Jan 05 19:07:56 <Sicelo> i don't see it there either, nor in devel :/
Jan 05 19:08:01 <netadmin> Sicelo, okay I checked modem but N900 not send MAC adresses using "ARP" protocols.
Jan 05 19:09:18 <netadmin> Sicelo, do you using N900?
Jan 05 19:09:58 <Sicelo> yes 
Jan 05 19:10:14 <netadmin> ok using computer/laptop? :)
Jan 05 19:10:18 <MrOpposite> hi
Jan 05 19:10:27 <netadmin> do you connect ssh N900 Sicelo?
Jan 05 19:10:35 <netadmin> MrOpposite, hello, good night:
Jan 05 19:10:50 <MrOpposite> I made a mistake when toying around with multiboot, I installed a new kernel, and forgot to edit my .item file
Jan 05 19:10:59 <Sicelo> yup netadmin. i do that at time
Jan 05 19:11:14 <MrOpposite> so now my n900 doesn't boot due to "Can't flash kernel"
Jan 05 19:11:25 <MrOpposite> How do I bypass multiboot? 
Jan 05 19:11:43 <Sicelo> netadmin: sometimes issue can be WLAN Power Saving.. switch that off for now.. until your connection works
Jan 05 19:11:43 <MrOpposite> or atleast gain access to the .item-file so I can change  it
Jan 05 19:11:46 <netadmin> Sicelo, please run arp -a command laptop and computer?
Jan 05 19:12:10 <netadmin> please connect ssh computer-> N900 and run arp -a command computer?
Jan 05 19:12:24 <netadmin> where is the wlan power saving menu? I checked
Jan 05 19:12:25 <Sicelo> MrOpposite: multiboot is fsckd
Jan 05 19:12:52 <netadmin> Sicelo, your N900 "designed in finland"?
Jan 05 19:14:07 <Sicelo> netadmin: all N900 are 
Jan 05 19:14:46 <netadmin> hmm, "made in korean"? :)
Jan 05 19:14:59 <netadmin> false news?
Jan 05 19:15:12 <Sicelo> there are fakes
Jan 05 19:15:20 <netadmin> ok I understand
Jan 05 19:15:25 <netadmin> do you connect ssh N900?
Jan 05 19:16:32 <netadmin> # arp
Jan 05 19:16:32 <netadmin> Address                  HWtype  HWaddress           Flags Mask            Iface
Jan 05 19:16:32 <netadmin> 172.16.1.1               ether   00:22:65:51:37:27   C                     wlan0
Jan 05 19:16:32 <netadmin> 172.16.1.9                       (incomplete)                              wlan0
Jan 05 19:16:50 <netadmin> this is problem: N900 not send MAC adress my laptop, N900 not support ARP?
Jan 05 19:16:55 <netadmin> I checked windows, wait.
Jan 05 19:20:39 <DocScrutinizer51> dang this battery indicator is pure crap
Jan 05 19:21:01 <DocScrutinizer51> when it gets red, there's no area left to see the red
Jan 05 19:21:21 <DocScrutinizer51> and no decent info in menu either
Jan 05 19:31:25 <Robot101> fredddd: I didn't look any more - I think that wildcard support in the SSL thing is just broken :/
Jan 05 19:34:03 <fredddd> So it is an issue in the client Maemo users?
Jan 05 19:34:13 <fredddd> And there is most likely no way for somebody to fix and submit a patch?
Jan 05 19:34:17 <fredddd> Guessing the state of Maemo.
Jan 05 19:34:56 <Sicelo> prolly CSSU :/
Jan 05 19:35:02 <Robot101> well CSSU can take a patch to it
Jan 05 19:35:04 <netadmin> Sicelo, no I don't ssh connection to N900 :(
Jan 05 19:35:05 <Robot101> it's loudmouth I think
Jan 05 19:35:11 <fredddd> I have yet to see an application to be truly patched with CSSU./
Jan 05 19:35:26 <fredddd> All I have noticed is impressively huge updates, doing nothing but updating some libraries.
Jan 05 19:35:30 <Robot101> see lm-ssl-openssl.c in http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/l/loudmouth/loudmouth_1.4.1-0osso10+0m5.tar.gz
Jan 05 19:35:34 <fredddd> Qt libraries, it was, right?
Jan 05 19:35:37 <Robot101> something fishy about that name checking
Jan 05 19:36:02 <Robot101> or you could be more gutsy and just upgrade telepathy a whole bunch - we ripped loudmouth out after the N900 because it's, well, crap :)
Jan 05 19:36:23 <fredddd> I like to stick to repositories, even if that means waiting few weeks for an update. x.x
Jan 05 19:37:06 <fredddd> Is there any other device on the market, having the convenient keyboard and operating system / software, the Nokia N900 has?
Jan 05 19:37:14 <Robot101> well, afaik there's nobody pushing CSSU to fix anything in particular, if you want to try and push a fix in, you can do it yourself
Jan 05 19:37:14 <fredddd> That is really what I love about the Nokia N900.
Jan 05 19:37:22 <fredddd> The easy and very pleasant software, and the comfortable keyboard.
Jan 05 19:37:38 <fredddd> But the lack of care due to Nokia's ditching of it, ...
Jan 05 19:37:40 <fredddd> Hm. =/
Jan 05 19:38:06 * fredddd looks up N900 alternative on a search engine
Jan 05 19:38:23 <Robot101> nemo mobile might run on the n900 and be more actively developed?
Jan 05 19:38:31 <Robot101> it's kinda animated corpse of meego :)
Jan 05 19:38:40 <Sicelo> netadmin: delete the connection from N900 and start it afresh
Jan 05 19:38:41 <fredddd> Do not like MeeGo.
Jan 05 19:38:53 <netadmin> Sicelo, okay I tested
Jan 05 19:38:58 <Robot101> yeah I have no idea why they didn't pick a distro that wasn't dead
Jan 05 19:39:01 <fredddd> It looks aweful if you ask me, and what is it anyway? I love Maemo, they should just fix that up.
Jan 05 19:39:08 <netadmin> and wireless power energy save is "off"
Jan 05 19:39:49 <fredddd> Maemo is so lovely, so is the N900, whenever I bring along my mobile phone somewhere people tell me how lovely it is, how fast they switch from browser, to a chat, in about one second.
Jan 05 19:40:02 <fredddd> I can have ten chat windows open at once, with easy switching.
Jan 05 19:40:09 <fredddd> Video call through XMPP.
Jan 05 19:40:26 <fredddd> In my eyes, how can MeeGo beat this? Does MeeGo beat this?
Jan 05 19:40:32 <Robot101> fredddd: people stopped developing the N900 software in 2009, you're not going to suddenly change the past by saying how nice the N900 is :)
Jan 05 19:40:39 <fredddd> I already dislike how MeeGo looks on screenshots I have seen, so why bother going further than giving it a glimpse?
Jan 05 19:40:50 <fredddd> I know, but I am just expressing my concern.
Jan 05 19:41:06 <fredddd> Was just wondering if there is a similar device on the market, by another manufacturer.
Jan 05 19:41:10 <Robot101> I think the N9 is a beautiful phone actually, it does lack a h/w keyboard though :(
Jan 05 19:41:21 <fredddd> HTC looks like a candidate, but ... yeah. =/
Jan 05 19:41:33 <fredddd> Hardware keyboard is only way I swing anymore, after Nokia N900.
Jan 05 19:41:33 <Robot101> and I don't think the N9 it has video calling
Jan 05 19:41:38 <Robot101> whether that will see the light of day
Jan 05 19:41:43 <fredddd> And Windows Phone, no thank you.
Jan 05 19:41:44 <Robot101> I also have a HP Pre 3 but it's also a dead OS
Jan 05 19:41:53 <Robot101> I like collecting dead phone OSes, it's my hobby
Jan 05 19:41:56 <Robot101> :P
Jan 05 19:42:12 * fredddd bought a Windows phone in 2007 for a new Windows Mobile to be released shortly after and then seeing how I would not opt in for an upgrade because manufacturer decision.
Jan 05 19:42:58 <fredddd> If there was only an OpenMoko that would not terrible appearance.
Jan 05 19:43:07 <fredddd> have*
Jan 05 19:46:47 <netadmin> teah
Jan 05 19:46:48 <netadmin> yeah
Jan 05 19:47:00 <netadmin> Sicelo, I pinging and ssh connection now!
Jan 05 19:47:05 <netadmin> thank you very much
Jan 05 19:47:42 <netadmin> :)
Jan 05 19:49:22 <Sicelo> kewl
Jan 05 19:49:49 <Robot101> fredddd: did you try old SSL?
Jan 05 19:51:06 <fredddd> No, I disabled it on my server.
Jan 05 19:56:52 <Robot101> oh, you could also try manually specifying the server to just your bare domain
Jan 05 19:57:02 <Robot101> that might work actually
Jan 05 19:57:18 <Robot101> given that expressionate.org coincidentally resolves to your server :)
Jan 05 19:57:26 <fredddd> Not to my XMPP server.
Jan 05 19:57:28 <fredddd> My web server.
Jan 05 19:58:03 <Robot101> oh well
Jan 05 19:58:10 <Robot101> just throw it all in a fire and become a monk
Jan 05 19:58:16 <fredddd> Ignoring the SSL errors.
Jan 05 19:58:23 <fredddd> Means, ignore it and continue the SSL connection?
Jan 05 19:58:31 <fredddd> Or, fail to SSL and resort to plain connection?
Jan 05 19:58:52 <Robot101> it will connect with encryption, just not barf if anything is wrong (date, CA, hostname, etc)
Jan 05 19:58:59 <fredddd> I see.
Jan 05 19:59:21 <Robot101> unfortunately that leaves you open to trivial MITM but the data being encrypted stops any passive attacks
Jan 05 19:59:28 <fredddd> Yes, I figured.
Jan 05 19:59:29 <fredddd> Hm.
Jan 05 19:59:29 <fredddd> =/
Jan 05 20:00:23 <fredddd> Do you consider for me to jump over the old SSL?
Jan 05 20:00:23 <Robot101> depends how much you care but you could issue a free non-wildcarded cert for your xmpp server from startssl.com
Jan 05 20:00:26 <fredddd> And enable it on my sserver?
Jan 05 20:00:45 <fredddd> Well you know, I paid money for this SSL certificate, and, it would be pleasant.
Jan 05 20:00:50 <fredddd> My desktop XMPP client works just flawlessly.
Jan 05 20:01:03 <Robot101> from what I can see, the wildcard code is just broken so it won't work unless your servername is a substring of the wildcard domain
Jan 05 20:01:36 <Robot101> it does if (certificate CN starts with *.) { find server name in certificate CN }
Jan 05 20:01:50 <fredddd> =c
Jan 05 20:01:51 <Robot101> then if (certificate CN == server name) { carry on OK... }
Jan 05 20:02:18 <fredddd> I am starting to doubt the security within this device and whether I should continue with it in general.
Jan 05 20:02:31 <fredddd> I am contemplating a new purchase, of something better, and supported.
Jan 05 20:02:52 <Robot101> well... enjoy android or windows mobile or iOS... :/
Jan 05 20:02:54 <fredddd> I dislike greatly, how every mobile device is looking the same.
Jan 05 20:03:02 <fredddd> Logo on top, screen, four buttons below.
Jan 05 20:03:03 <Robot101> I don't think any of them will be any more secure
Jan 05 20:03:11 <Robot101> hey the N9 has no buttons below :)
Jan 05 20:03:34 <fredddd> I visit the N9 website.
Jan 05 20:03:36 <fredddd> Pink N9.
Jan 05 20:03:37 <fredddd> What?
Jan 05 20:03:59 <Robot101> actually, that puzzles me... why doesn't the server being expressionate.org let the thing connect?
Jan 05 20:04:10 <fredddd> Let what thing connect?
Jan 05 20:04:24 <Robot101> if it's done a SRV lookup of @expressionate.org to find the XMPP server
Jan 05 20:04:32 <Robot101> it should be verifying the certificate belongs to expressionate.org
Jan 05 20:04:45 <fredddd> SRV goes to xmpp.expressionate.org. :x
Jan 05 20:04:48 <fredddd> It should obey that.
Jan 05 20:04:57 <Robot101> no, it should check the certificate for the XMPP domain
Jan 05 20:05:03 <Robot101> otherwise you are open to DNS attacks
Jan 05 20:05:04 <fredddd> They are both the same.
Jan 05 20:05:23 <Robot101> well yes, but that's just specific to your site
Jan 05 20:05:25 <fredddd> There is no certificate for the XMPP domain.
Jan 05 20:05:31 <fredddd> There is one certificate, for *.expressionate.org.
Jan 05 20:05:43 <fredddd> Which I use for email, XMPP, website, etc...
Jan 05 20:06:03 <Robot101> an XMPP client connecting to blob@xmpp.org should do a SRV lookup and find a server. whatever.somewhere-else.org, connect to it, and be given a valid certificate for xmpp.org before sharing the credentials for the blob user.
Jan 05 20:06:31 <Robot101> if this is checking that whatever.somewhere-else.org has a certificate for whatever.somewhere-else.org (ie, trusting the SRV lookup) then it's doubly broken
Jan 05 20:06:32 <fredddd> Could you explain the DNS attack? :x
Jan 05 20:06:45 <fredddd> Yes.
Jan 05 20:06:55 <fredddd> xmpp.expressionate.org has a certificate for xmpp.expressionate.org.
Jan 05 20:07:04 <Robot101> yes, that's useless though
Jan 05 20:07:07 <Robot101> if your DNS resolver is compromised, I can return a SRV result saying talk to evil.server.org
Jan 05 20:07:16 <Robot101> and I can prove that evil.server.org has a certificate for evil.server.org
Jan 05 20:07:16 <fredddd> Hm, true.
Jan 05 20:07:23 <fredddd> What do you consider a solution?
Jan 05 20:07:24 <Robot101> but that's not what your client should be caring about
Jan 05 20:07:43 <Robot101> put a port redirect on 5222 on your web server to your XMPP server?
Jan 05 20:08:13 <Robot101> that will let you set the server manually to expressionate.org and this stupid broken *. check will match and it should connect
Jan 05 20:08:18 <fredddd> How will this fix the DNS attack issue?
Jan 05 20:08:29 <Robot101> there won't be a SRV lookup any more
Jan 05 20:08:50 <Robot101> (putting a manual server stops a SRV lookup being done)
Jan 05 20:08:54 <fredddd> So you are saying those SRV lookups are DNS exploit prone naturally?
Jan 05 20:09:25 <Robot101> no, a correctly-behaving client would check that the some.server.org has a certificate for expressionate.org
Jan 05 20:09:29 <fredddd> So.
Jan 05 20:09:35 <fredddd> My best option is to enable the old SSL? x3
Jan 05 20:09:59 <Robot101> I don't think the old SSL will fix it either because this code won't accept *.expressionate.org as a certificate for xmpp.expressionate.org
Jan 05 20:10:21 <fredddd> OpenSSL liked everything about the old SSL though. :x
Jan 05 20:10:26 <fredddd> It returned status code 0 upon checking.
Jan 05 20:10:44 <fredddd> Hm.
Jan 05 20:10:49 <fredddd> Is there any alternative XMPP client? x.x
Jan 05 20:10:57 <fredddd> That looks as pretty and integrated as this one?
Jan 05 20:11:09 <Robot101> no? fix loudmouth, or upgrade telepathy-gabble...
Jan 05 20:11:22 <fredddd> Psi looks damn frigging sexy.
Jan 05 20:11:31 <Robot101> hahahaha... errr...
Jan 05 20:11:37 <fredddd> http://psi-im.garage.maemo.org/
Jan 05 20:11:45 <Robot101> or go and edit inetd.conf on your web server to use netcat and send 5222 to your XMPP server
Jan 05 20:11:55 <fredddd> Never. x.x
Jan 05 20:11:59 <fredddd> Psi, here I come.
Jan 05 20:12:04 <Robot101> enjoy...
Jan 05 20:12:15 <fredddd> Why would I resort to dirty hacks for unattended software.
Jan 05 20:12:22 <fredddd> Today, this will be an issue, tomorrow, there could be another issue?
Jan 05 20:12:24 <Robot101> why do I care either way?
Jan 05 20:12:25 <fredddd> More dirty hacks to fix?
Jan 05 20:12:31 <fredddd> I do not like that, I rather resort to supported software.
Jan 05 20:12:35 <Robot101> do you like the N900 or are you trying to prove a point? to who?
Jan 05 20:12:49 <fredddd> Psi is available for Maemo?
Jan 05 20:12:53 <fredddd> There seems to be a dediciated Maemo client even.
Jan 05 20:13:08 <fredddd> Why do you frown upon me resorting to Psi Maemo?
Jan 05 20:13:36 <Robot101> I worked on the Telepathy stack for the past 5-6 years and I'm kinda embarrassed we/Nokia screwed that part of it so much in the N900 :)
Jan 05 20:13:46 <fredddd> Oh I see, so you are to blame. =3
Jan 05 20:13:56 <Robot101> not me, but I could name names - not that it helps :P
Jan 05 20:13:56 <fredddd> I did not know you were Nokia.
Jan 05 20:13:56 <fredddd> x3
Jan 05 20:13:59 <Robot101> I'm not
Jan 05 20:14:06 <fredddd> So now you are trying to hide the past.
Jan 05 20:14:07 <fredddd> Mh.
Jan 05 20:14:08 <fredddd> x3
Jan 05 20:14:09 * fredddd giggles
Jan 05 20:14:22 <Robot101> truthfully, we wasted too much time working on Loudmouth trying to add XMPP features like STARTTLS, SRV, etc
Jan 05 20:14:36 <Robot101> but it's a piece of crap - we should've shot it in the head and moved to our own library much sooner
Jan 05 20:14:47 <Robot101> which we actually did in 2009 but it wasn't mature in time for the N900
Jan 05 20:14:54 <Robot101> it works much better on the N9 ...? :)
Jan 05 20:14:59 <zaccanasta> hi guys
Jan 05 20:15:00 <fredddd> Send me one. =U
Jan 05 20:15:05 <fredddd> N9 has no keyboard, right.
Jan 05 20:15:07 <fredddd> No, thank you.
Jan 05 20:15:13 <fredddd> I would not even want one for free in that case.
Jan 05 20:15:23 <zaccanasta> i have problems with megavideo and n900
Jan 05 20:15:33 <Robot101> well given I don't even have scratchbox installed any more, it's pretty hard for me to patch this for you
Jan 05 20:15:46 <Robot101> I dunno if someone here has the maemo 5 SDK installed and feels generous
Jan 05 20:16:10 <fredddd> If it was not proprietary I would.
Jan 05 20:16:32 <zaccanasta> i installed flash player 10 but nothing
Jan 05 20:16:36 <fredddd> I do not have a GNU/Linux setup devoted to installing proprietary software on.
Jan 05 20:17:09 <Robot101> er - scratchbox itself is free - it's just some bits in the SDK to support the device which are closed
Jan 05 20:17:29 <fredddd> Hm.
Jan 05 20:17:32 <Robot101> curiouser and curiouser...
Jan 05 20:17:40 <fredddd> The distribution I use has scratchbox2 available.
Jan 05 20:17:59 <Robot101> oh, don't even try that. you'll go mad. the SDK and scratchbox are way too interdependent.
Jan 05 20:18:14 <Robot101> you need to feed the right toolchain version into scratchbox from the outside and bla bla bla
Jan 05 20:18:18 <Robot101> it's all a bit insane
Jan 05 20:18:25 <fredddd> So you developed the Nokia N900?
Jan 05 20:19:30 <fredddd> I demand answers.
Jan 05 20:21:27 <fredddd> Where were you when those business managers deserved a good smack in their face for ditching Maemo!? >:L
Jan 05 20:21:30 <fredddd> Or were you that guy.
Jan 05 20:21:31 <fredddd> If so.
Jan 05 20:21:33 * fredddd smacks
Jan 05 20:21:47 <fredddd> If not, I take back my smack.
Jan 05 20:32:53 <zaccanasta> i have problems with megavideo and n900
Jan 05 20:33:41 <MrOpposite> hi, I've got a problem. I can't place my n900 in upgrade/reflash mode. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, maybe it's because of I put it in R&D-mode prior to the breakdown. any ideas?
Jan 05 20:34:28 <MrOpposite> The procedure to putting the device in upgrade/reflash mode is pressing u while connecting the usb-cable after the device has been shut down?
Jan 05 20:37:50 <Robot101> fredddd: I was not that guy
Jan 05 20:38:12 <Robot101> fredddd: I'm one of the founders of Collabora (www.collabora.com)
Jan 05 20:38:51 <fredddd> I see.
Jan 05 20:39:09 <Robot101> fredddd: we're an open source consultancy, we did a bunch of stuff for the N900 and N9 including working on the desktop and widget set (more in the N900 than N9), graphics drivers, multimedia framework (GStreamer), im/voip/cellular (Telepathy), contacts, general performance/architecture/"SWAT" team bugfixing, etc...
Jan 05 20:39:33 <Robot101> unfortunately for us we can't make our own products, so we have to go along with what our clients decide
Jan 05 20:40:03 <fredddd> So if you were to want it, you could, push through a fix?
Jan 05 20:40:10 <fredddd> But only if you had the SDK installed?
Jan 05 20:40:18 <Robot101> Nokia won't put any updates out for the N900 any more
Jan 05 20:40:27 <fredddd> I would be willing to boot up a virtual machine with the requirements and if you could guide me.
Jan 05 20:40:28 <fredddd> Get it done.
Jan 05 20:40:35 <fredddd> No, Nokia would not, but there is CSSU.
Jan 05 20:40:50 <Robot101> ah right - well yes you can push something out through CSSU if you patched loudmouth
Jan 05 20:41:02 <Robot101> what's puzzling me is precisely why it didn't work
Jan 05 20:41:17 <Robot101> you can maybe help by catching a log on the device
Jan 05 20:41:31 <fredddd> Sure, I am up for it just give me the instructions and I will follow them.
Jan 05 20:41:52 <Robot101> I can't actually remember how to set up the SDK, I'm just a poor PHB now :)
Jan 05 20:42:53 <Robot101> to get a log, let me find some instructions
Jan 05 20:44:07 <Robot101> you need http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation to install the SDK - best is a 32-bit Debian or Ubuntu distribution
Jan 05 20:44:15 <Robot101> Debian stable would do fine I guess
Jan 05 20:47:29 <NIN101> MrOpposite: Turning the device off, starting the flasher and then connecting the cable should be enough. Basically everything is described in http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware 
Jan 05 20:48:31 <Robot101> fredddd: to get a log, disable all your IM accounts & open a terminal, killall telepathy-gabble
Jan 05 20:48:56 <Robot101> fredddd: then run LM_DEBUG=all GABBLE_DEBUG=all GABBLE_PERSIST=1 /usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-gabble 2>&1 | tee gabble.log
Jan 05 20:49:17 <Robot101> fredddd: then edit your XMPP account and clear any weird ignore ssl / old ssl / manual server / etc setting, and enable the account
Jan 05 20:50:12 <Robot101> fredddd: then it will fail, you should get a bunch of stuff in the terminal also saved to gabble.log. you can disable the account again then ctrl+c that, and put the file online somewhere
Jan 05 20:50:27 <Robot101> (check first it doesn't contain your password :D)
Jan 05 20:51:11 <fredddd> Ok, hold on, reading through it.
Jan 05 20:52:19 <fredddd> Grabbing Debian, then going to perform the log things.
Jan 05 20:59:31 <MrOpposite> I figured it out
Jan 05 20:59:35 <MrOpposite> Stupid win7
Jan 05 20:59:40 <MrOpposite> thanks NIN101 
Jan 05 20:59:53 <NIN101> yw
Jan 05 21:00:42 <MrOpposite> Bah, stupid old flashing-tool
Jan 05 21:00:52 <MrOpposite> on linux I needed to downgrade my libusb
Jan 05 21:01:04 <MrOpposite> anyway I tested the flasher just now, and it worked
Jan 05 21:01:49 <fredddd> Robot101, killall: telepathy-gabble: no process killed
Jan 05 21:02:10 <fredddd> I need to be root?
Jan 05 21:02:32 <Robot101> fredddd: nope I guess it's not running - should be fine to proceed
Jan 05 21:04:00 <fredddd> Robot101, these variables you are making me set, you do know how to revert them right? :3
Jan 05 21:04:06 <fredddd> I do not want to run in debug mode all the time.
Jan 05 21:05:07 <fredddd> Or are they temporary?
Jan 05 21:05:11 <fredddd> Only for the started instance?
Jan 05 21:07:13 <MrOpposite> YEEEEEES
Jan 05 21:07:26 <MrOpposite> I managed to reflash my kernel without reflashing the whole phone
Jan 05 21:07:29 * MrOpposite is happy
Jan 05 21:07:41 <MrOpposite> Uhm, sortof wrong channel
Jan 05 21:07:44 <Robot101> fredddd: it will just set it for the started instance
Jan 05 21:12:29 <fredddd> Robot101, do you have any clue where I could move the log to so it would be available when I plug it into my computer?
Jan 05 21:42:48 <tramp> Should I get a bluetooth keyboard and a bluetooth mouse, a BT keyboard and a USB mouse, or a USB keyboard and a BT mouse?
Jan 05 21:43:00 <kerio> tramp: yes
Jan 05 21:43:02 <kerio> or neither
Jan 05 21:44:04 <tramp> Or neither I suppose.
Jan 05 21:44:44 <tramp> If both were BT, I could charge at the same time, or use a flashdrive.
Jan 05 21:44:50 <fredddd> Get a desktop.
Jan 05 21:45:12 <fredddd> Do not turn your mobile device into one, just get one.
Jan 05 21:45:15 <kerio> tramp: is this for the n900?
Jan 05 21:45:22 <tramp> kerio: Yes.
Jan 05 21:45:29 <kerio> tramp: hahahahahahahahaha
Jan 05 21:45:29 <kerio> no
Jan 05 21:45:40 <tramp> fredddd: The desktop isn't fitting in my pocket.
Jan 05 21:45:51 <fredddd> Neither is that keyboard and mouse.
Jan 05 21:46:06 <tramp> Interesting.
Jan 05 21:46:07 <kerio> fredddd: a stowaway bt keyboard does!
Jan 05 21:46:16 <fredddd> Hey, be on my side here! :<
Jan 05 21:46:30 <fredddd> Anyway, I think you should sway more to a tablet PC with a keyboard and/or mouse, for what you need.
Jan 05 21:46:34 <tramp> But your side is wrong..
Jan 05 21:46:47 <kerio> the n900 is a poor excuse for a desktop anyway
Jan 05 21:46:47 <fredddd> Hey, there is not what the enemy side should be saying!
Jan 05 21:46:51 <kerio> you'd want an openpandora for that
Jan 05 21:46:51 <fredddd> We say the same about you! x3
Jan 05 21:47:19 <tramp> fredddd: Hmm, but a tablet pc can't do what an N900 can.
Jan 05 21:47:41 <fredddd> Christmas truce/
Jan 05 21:47:44 <fredddd> Let us play with a ball.
Jan 05 21:47:48 <fredddd> And forget about our war arguments.
Jan 05 21:48:00 <tramp> How boring.
Jan 05 21:48:10 <tramp> How about war.
Jan 05 21:48:51 <fredddd> So wait, what do you do on your N900.
Jan 05 21:48:54 <tramp> Anyway, wouldn't the N900 work fine as a desktop in EasyDebian
Jan 05 21:48:59 <fredddd> That pleases for yourself to have a mouse and keyboard on it?
Jan 05 21:49:10 <tramp> When I'm mobile I do everything on my N900.
Jan 05 21:49:13 <fredddd> Do you develop your software on it or something.
Jan 05 21:49:24 <fredddd> And you be sitting on a train with keyboard and mouse out, or what?
Jan 05 21:49:26 <tramp> fredddd: Yes!
Jan 05 21:49:28 <fredddd> x.x
Jan 05 21:49:38 <fredddd> I am going to stay out of this one from here on.
Jan 05 21:50:05 <tramp> I have written some software on it, but I don't prefer it.
Jan 05 21:50:12 <tramp> No train.
Jan 05 21:50:38 <tramp> With a keyboard, I could modify the phone faster.
Jan 05 21:53:16 <fredddd> http://nokiaexperts.com/articleimages/2009/11/N900BTkeyboard.JPG
Jan 05 21:53:18 <fredddd> Have fun.
Jan 05 21:54:18 <tramp> So you mean to say it's a bad idea and waste of time, but you're too afraid to say so.
Jan 05 21:54:54 <fredddd> I like cake.
Jan 05 21:54:58 <fredddd> And that is all I will state.
Jan 05 21:55:11 <fredddd> But you do not see me turning my N900 into a cake baking oven, now do you? :c
Jan 05 21:55:59 <tramp> I presumed it was only for lack of ability.
Jan 05 21:56:13 <fredddd> Are you questioning my cake baking abilities here?
Jan 05 21:56:23 <fredddd> Because if so, you might very well be right.
Jan 05 21:56:43 <tramp> Merely raising the question
Jan 05 21:58:16 <tramp> Stargus and other games would play better on a keyboard.
Jan 05 21:58:32 <fredddd> That is because they were not designed for mobile devices.
Jan 05 21:59:03 <tramp> I know, if only they were designed for mobile devices.
Jan 05 21:59:11 <fredddd> Yeah ... =/
Jan 05 21:59:21 <fredddd> How much I like the idea of using your mobile phone for everything.
Jan 05 21:59:29 <fredddd> Sadly, to me, it does not sound realistically.
Jan 05 21:59:52 <trumee> Robot101: did your guys make any progress with the MWI support?
Jan 05 21:59:58 <fredddd> Some manufacturers try to pack a gaming device into a mobile phone device, and well, for many of us, we can not even mention the name of any such device.
Jan 05 22:00:31 <kerio> buy a 3ds
Jan 05 22:00:38 <fredddd> That was my first thought too.
Jan 05 22:00:44 <kerio> if you want to play a computer game, you need a *computer*
Jan 05 22:00:47 <fredddd> But I am sure he likes the freedom of a GNU/Linux operating system./
Jan 05 22:00:49 <kerio> aka a desktop or a laptop
Jan 05 22:00:51 <kerio> with a *mouse*
Jan 05 22:00:52 <fredddd> Which lacks entirely with the 3DS.
Jan 05 22:00:56 <kerio> and a fullsize keyboard
Jan 05 22:01:06 <kerio> anything else is just a loose imitation
Jan 05 22:01:13 <fredddd> Not really, gaming handheld devices, which are out there, work good.
Jan 05 22:01:18 <fredddd> But none are as free and open as a Nokia N900.
Jan 05 22:01:21 <tramp> The N900 is a computer.
Jan 05 22:01:22 <kerio> fredddd: i said "computer games"
Jan 05 22:01:33 <kerio> i should've said pc games, i suppose
Jan 05 22:01:33 <fredddd> My N900 does not compute?
Jan 05 22:01:40 <fredddd> N900 = Personal Computer.
Jan 05 22:01:44 <fredddd> It computes, and it is personal.
Jan 05 22:01:46 <tramp> With a kbd, mouse and S/Video cables, and EasyDebian, I don't see the difference
Jan 05 22:02:00 <kerio> fredddd: that's not what "personal computer" means, at least nowadays
Jan 05 22:02:17 <fredddd> To me it does, so just call them games designed for desktop use.
Jan 05 22:02:21 <kerio> a flammenwerfer does indeed werf flammen, but it doesn't apply to every word
Jan 05 22:02:45 <fredddd> Anything that is wet, is wet to me.
Jan 05 22:02:48 <fredddd> Anything that computes.
Jan 05 22:02:49 <fredddd> Is a computer to me.
Jan 05 22:02:55 <kerio> also, the more realtime skills are involved, the less a n900 port is going to be good
Jan 05 22:03:11 <kerio> turn-based things are probably going to be good enough or more
Jan 05 22:03:18 <kerio> playing starcraft on a n900... not so much
Jan 05 22:03:28 <fredddd> Because Apple calls their computers Mac in and uses it as marketing technique, does not mean it no longer is a personal computer.
Jan 05 22:03:45 <fredddd> Mac devices are personal computers, and to me, Apple does nothing else but make a fool out of themselves bashing personal computers.
Jan 05 22:04:07 <fredddd> An iPad is even more of a personal computer, than a Windows desktop, because it allows only for one user, not multiple user accounts.
Jan 05 22:04:39 <kerio> personal computer, at least to me, implies having a freedom to run whatever shit you want on it
Jan 05 22:04:49 <kerio> and, nowadays, x86 or x86-64 architecture
Jan 05 22:05:18 <tramp> I like lightweight backpacking, and a phone that doubles as a laptop can be very useful on the move.
Jan 05 22:05:27 <kerio> sadly enough... "able to run windows" is probably a good definition of a pc
Jan 05 22:05:36 <kerio> and virtual machines don't count
Jan 05 22:06:57 <tramp> Linux is good for productive uses of the computer.
Jan 05 22:07:24 <tramp> And Debian doesn't discriminate betwee x86, x64 and ARMEL. It supports each.
Jan 05 22:11:52 <trumee> If i download packages using apt-get -d, is HAM smart enough to see them and not download them again?
Jan 05 22:13:09 * trumee has flaky mobile internet atm, and wants to  make sure the packages are downloaded correctly
Jan 05 22:13:47 <javispedro> no
Jan 05 22:14:12 <javispedro> the other package manager maybe does, though.
Jan 05 22:14:28 <javispedro> plus, apt-get itself will also not download them again
Jan 05 22:15:16 <trumee> javispedro: right, i will install kp49 using apt-get then
Jan 05 22:15:38 * trumee hopefully kp49 wont break bluetooth support like kp48 did.
Jan 05 22:16:07 * trumee bluetooth-headset to be specific
Jan 05 22:26:01 <tramp> I heard someone mention they were using a BT keyboard and USB mouse to save power. Is there anything to this?
Jan 05 22:27:00 <tramp> Right in this channel.
Jan 05 22:35:30 <Raimu> ¬_¬
Jan 05 22:35:38 <Raimu> To save power compared to what?
Jan 05 22:36:50 <tramp> Using a BT keyboard and BT mouse.
Jan 05 22:37:00 <tramp> I assume
Jan 05 22:37:05 <Raimu> Sometimes I think "power savings" is to the n900 enthusiasts what "protein" is to bodybuilding wannabes.
Jan 05 22:37:12 <SpeedEvil> Extremely unlikely.
Jan 05 22:37:27 <SpeedEvil> Adding an additional device to BT will not significantly raise its power consumptionn.
Jan 05 22:37:37 <javispedro> Raimu: "overclocking" is that word
Jan 05 22:38:28 <Raimu> javispedro, that too
Jan 05 22:38:32 <tramp> SpeedEvil: Thank you.
Jan 05 22:39:18 <Raimu> Maybe "protein" is overclocking and "diet" is power s(h)avings, then.
Jan 05 22:39:38 <tramp> Are speed, power and screen space not the three most important commodities in the N900?
Jan 05 22:40:38 <Raimu> Yeah, I can see how it gets there, but nonetheless.
Jan 05 22:41:31 <tramp> I like the double BT idea. You can charge while using it, and optionally use a flashdrive.
Jan 05 22:42:11 <tramp> And there's no problem with the battery meter not updating.
Jan 05 22:44:48 <jkdhsdf> stella
Jan 05 22:48:30 <Robot101> fredddd: sorry was eating dinner - MyDocs is the folder that appears on the USB
Jan 05 22:59:33 <Sicelo> ~/win 23
Jan 05 23:01:41 <Sicelo> sorry for spam
Jan 05 23:20:25 <DocScrutinizer> tramp: while using a USB kbd for sure will eat significant amounts of energy
Jan 05 23:22:19 <fredddd> Robot101, I will continue that tomorrow. ^^
Jan 05 23:22:24 <fredddd> In a game of Killing Floor before I go to bed. :X
Jan 05 23:45:28 <badcloud_> anyone know where I can download minimo?
Jan 05 23:45:53 <badcloud_> seems like all links are dead...
Jan 05 23:51:17 <fredddd> Robot101, I do not permission over the log file to move it.
Jan 06 00:03:10 <fosstux> How far is Meego on the N900? And can Maemo be completely replaces by Meego?
Jan 06 00:11:08 <Sicelo> to second queston, No
Jan 06 00:11:50 <freddddddd> Who was the gentleman helping me before with the SSL issue?
Jan 06 00:17:30 <freddddddd> Robot101?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jan 06 02:59:57 2012