**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jan 28 03:00:00 2012
Jan 28 04:43:27 <aholler> hmm, whats going on with kernel-power? I wanted to install u-boot, that wants kernel-power-46, that seems to have disappeared and the new ones aren't available. Look like I have to do most of the needed stuff manually.
Jan 28 04:46:44 <Hurrian> use the new u-boot plus kernel-power v49
Jan 28 04:46:46 <Hurrian> c/o pali
Jan 28 04:49:19 <aholler> is there somewhere a small tutorial about that? I'm new to using u-boot on the n900 ;)
Jan 28 04:50:00 <LaoLang_cool> kernel-power-46? what's the advantage compared with the offical one?
Jan 28 04:50:31 <aholler> there are already at 49. 46 is just required for uboot-power
Jan 28 04:51:24 <LaoLang_cool> kernel-power means power saving, or makeing n900 more powerful?
Jan 28 04:52:57 <aholler> have a look at the wiki, some stuff is explained there
Jan 28 04:53:23 <aholler> but it isn't for power-saving
Jan 28 04:55:57 <LaoLang_cool> ok, will search for it
Jan 28 08:33:25 <StyXman> is there any way to see the booting messages of N900, from the boot loader on or later, more like a computer?
Jan 28 08:34:17 <StyXman> that is, I want to know why my device does not boot after doing a restore of /home via rsync
Jan 28 08:34:45 <_freemangordon> StyXman, KP49 and framebuffer console
Jan 28 08:37:11 <StyXman> so without the new kernel Iń fried. reflashing is my only option?
Jan 28 08:38:08 <_freemangordon> StyXman, that is how you can see boot messages, said nothing about reflashing
Jan 28 08:38:56 <StyXman> ok, right. I meant, with the original kernel I can't, as as the device is not booting not even to the bootmenu, ...
Jan 28 08:57:34 <Sicelo> u need fbcon for boot messages, which doesn't work with stock kernel, afaik
Jan 28 09:02:47 <StyXman> Sicelo: ack
Jan 28 09:40:14 <chem|st> !cssu
Jan 28 09:40:19 <chem|st> ~cssu
Jan 28 09:40:19 <infobot> cssu is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU
Jan 28 09:40:31 <chem|st> ~cssu-changelog
Jan 28 09:58:31 <fw190> DocScrutinizer: http://www.euro.com.pl/telefony-komorkowe/nokia-n900.bhtml
Jan 28 09:58:34 <fw190> brand new
Jan 28 09:59:04 <fw190> 288 euro
Jan 28 10:00:00 <dhbiker> hi there
Jan 28 10:00:06 <fw190> hello
Jan 28 10:00:26 <dhbiker> can i flash the global FW on N900 ?
Jan 28 10:00:36 <dhbiker> or do i need this branded stuff
Jan 28 10:02:18 <fw190> are there branded firmawres?
Jan 28 10:02:31 <dhbiker> oops
Jan 28 10:02:42 <dhbiker> i mean like USA and other continents
Jan 28 10:03:03 <fw190> I think that when you flash both images you could
Jan 28 10:03:14 <fw190> use the firmware you like
Jan 28 10:03:27 <fw190> but not know 100%
Jan 28 10:03:40 <Arkenoi> a guy on local forum (maemos.ru) sold everything nokia gave him for last years -- 2*n900, e7, n9 and n950, for ~$2K total. Too bad I did not monitor it frequently enough :-(
Jan 28 10:09:00 <RST38h> Arkenoi: So,did he buy an iPhone and an iPad instead?
Jan 28 10:11:03 <Arkenoi> RST38h, no idea, he did not provide any details
Jan 28 10:11:39 <Arkenoi> but i'd happily buy all his stuff if i wasn't late
Jan 28 10:13:25 <Arkenoi> n950 as backup one, n9 is a good gift, n900's for two friends who are continuously whining they are not being sold anymore, e7 for a girl who likes to play angry birds and has no touchscreen phone
Jan 28 10:13:52 <Arkenoi> (i already own n950, n900 and e7)
Jan 28 10:15:17 <Sicelo> dhbiker: yes.. global is considered best
Jan 28 10:15:33 <dhbiker> tnx Sicelo 
Jan 28 10:17:43 <chem|st> fw190: there was some vodafoneUK fw afair
Jan 28 10:30:38 <RST38h> Arkenoi: I think the guy is the "site founder" or "forum owner" or whatever web managing bozos like to call themselves
Jan 28 10:31:06 <RST38h> Arkenoi: really good thread to troll in, en masse =)
Jan 28 10:32:35 <Arkenoi> RST38h, well, anyway, no idea why he is selling all his stuff. but it is already sold :-( btw he seems to be the only person i know (except myself) who got n950 *not* by the developers program
Jan 28 10:34:07 <RST38h> yeah, he was fed by nokia marketing I think
Jan 28 10:52:44 <dhbiker> i need to flash eMMC first right ?
Jan 28 10:55:45 <Wizzup> So I have this kernel: 2.6.28.10-power49. I have an extra mmc card and would like to check out nemo. However, last time I tried to install u-boot I spent half a day trying to get my phone to boot again. Any suggestions as to _what_ uboot package I should install
Jan 28 10:59:45 <NIN101> maybe none
Jan 28 11:00:06 <NIN101> to test it, you can load _load_ it by using the flasher.
Jan 28 11:00:42 <Wizzup> I suppose that would do for now
Jan 28 11:00:50 <Wizzup> Your rescue image worked nicely btw
Jan 28 11:01:00 <NIN101> thx.
Jan 28 11:08:26 <Wizzup> NIN101: so basically I flash the latest nemo image to my extra card, put it in, and boot it using flasher?
Jan 28 11:09:51 <NIN101> yes.
Jan 28 11:10:30 <Wizzup> ok
Jan 28 11:11:54 <NIN101> at least it was possible with meego-ce, didn't try it with nemo but I assume it should work.
Jan 28 14:02:09 <woodong50> hi
Jan 28 14:06:14 <Sicelo> hi woodong50 
Jan 28 14:26:44 <StyXman> kp49 is in testing or devel?
Jan 28 14:35:57 <Sicelo> devel
Jan 28 14:36:28 <Sicelo> all kp from 47 is in devel
Jan 28 14:51:18 <StyXman> Sicelo: k, tx
Jan 28 17:06:56 <Sicelo> hmm, i find this weird. when running debian via bootmenu method, udev refuses to run, saying kernel needed is 2.6.32 or higher. yet, it runs under maemo (and Easy Debian) for same kernel (kp49)
Jan 28 17:07:24 <NIN101> the udev version you are running on debian is too new.
Jan 28 17:08:11 <Sicelo> that's what i guessed. hmm :/
Jan 28 17:10:34 * Sicelo must get a an usd card to stop using bootmenu
Jan 28 17:12:55 <Sicelo> right now i have a 12GB MyDocs & using the remaining space for Debian experiments
Jan 28 17:13:25 <NIN101> or recompile the kernel to support booting from EMMC. but getting a sd card should be better for experiments. Then again, PK won't boot from sd without recompilation too. 
Jan 28 17:15:23 <trumee> Strange why KP49 is marked as stable, when it doesnt work right
Jan 28 17:15:36 <trumee> in the thread on tmo
Jan 28 17:15:43 <Sicelo> thanks for info :) once i get sd card i'll just go u-boot way 
Jan 28 17:16:00 <Sicelo> trumee: what's wrong with it?
Jan 28 17:16:15 <trumee> Sicelo, videos dont work out of the box
Jan 28 17:16:59 <trumee> Sicelo, and i dont have any of the special codecs install. It is plain broken.
Jan 28 17:17:28 <Sicelo> sounds like issue is on your device. mine is ok
Jan 28 17:18:06 <NIN101> my suggestion: avoiding maemo kernel at all for experiments with other distris, as this version is getting old... and it may be isn't a good idea to take old stuff with you. Nemo's kernel should be ok. 
Jan 28 17:18:16 <Sicelo> or u mean the 720 ..something video?
Jan 28 17:19:58 <StyXman> Sicelo: and do you install packages from the original maemo on top of debian? 
Jan 28 17:20:04 <trumee> Sicelo, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1156295&postcount=2629
Jan 28 17:20:13 <trumee> Sicelo, no a normal SD video
Jan 28 17:20:43 <trumee> Sicelo, i have gone back to KP48
Jan 28 17:20:55 <dhbiker-n900> nice it works
Jan 28 17:21:15 <trumee> Sicelo, videos in KP49 throw up error. And i am not into HD or overclocking
Jan 28 17:21:16 <Sicelo> no StyXman i boot debian and install packages from debian's repos
Jan 28 17:22:16 <trumee> Sicelo, so i dont want to mess around with those. if out of the box SD videos dont work in KP49 then imho it is not stable.
Jan 28 17:22:18 <Sicelo> trumee: i've been on 49 for a month now and haven5m had any issue with videos. no overclocking here too
Jan 28 17:22:39 <trumee> Sicelo, did you add any HD codecs?
Jan 28 17:23:20 <trumee> Sicelo, 720 modifications?
Jan 28 17:23:26 <Sicelo> nope. 
Jan 28 17:23:36 * trumee is on CSSU stable btw
Jan 28 17:23:59 <Sicelo> i don't play with stuff that comes close to overclocking. i'm on cssu stable too :P
Jan 28 17:24:00 <trumee> Sicelo, no idea why it is doesnt work here.
Jan 28 17:24:31 <trumee> Sicelo, right. want to try one of my video files?
Jan 28 17:24:34 <Sicelo> btw, 48 is more borked than 47, afaik.
Jan 28 17:25:22 <Sicelo> trumee: yeah
Jan 28 17:25:59 <Sicelo> small clip if ossible. i can't download that much data :(
Jan 28 17:27:38 <trumee> Sicelo, http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp4/dw.com.com/redir/cnet_2012-01-23-175133.dl.mp4?destUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fcnet.co%2FxfurbS%3FADPARAMS%3DBRAND%3D47%7CSITE%3D53%7CSP%3D181%7CPOS%3D100%7CNCAT%3D13482%3A13489%3A&ontId=14106&siteId=145&edId=3&asid=50118791&pid=&astId=31&ltype=dl_dlnow
Jan 28 17:27:56 <trumee> Sicelo, http://feeds.feedburner.com/cnet/top5?format=xml
Jan 28 17:28:18 <Sicelo> thanks for suggestions NIN101. 
Jan 28 17:28:25 <trumee> Sicelo, any of the videos from the above list
Jan 28 17:28:48 <Sicelo> lemme see
Jan 28 17:30:55 <dhbiker> no equalizer on media player ?
Jan 28 17:30:56 <dhbiker> blah
Jan 28 17:31:04 <trumee> Sicelo, try out any of the mp4
Jan 28 17:32:44 <dhbiker> anybody jnows how to use alsamixer on the N900 ?
Jan 28 17:32:49 <Sicelo> downloading ... btw, they play on kp48?
Jan 28 17:32:50 <dhbiker> k*
Jan 28 17:33:30 <Sicelo> dhbiker: alsamixer -c 0.  but better to leave the  settings alone
Jan 28 17:34:01 <trumee> Sicelo, yes, fine on kp48
Jan 28 17:35:01 <dhbiker> Sicelo: tnx
Jan 28 17:35:28 <dhbiker> i might port alsa equalizer to n900
Jan 28 17:35:36 <dhbiker> i love that one <3
Jan 28 17:35:39 <DocScrutinizer> \o/
Jan 28 17:36:15 <trumee> Sicelo, why do you say kp48 is worse than 47?
Jan 28 17:44:29 <Sicelo> well, i downloaded one mp4.. it plays for a while then stops :(
Jan 28 17:45:16 <trumee> Sicelo, exactly!
Jan 28 17:45:26 <trumee> Sicelo, look in dmesg
Jan 28 17:46:41 <Sicelo> yeah, same output as in tmo post
Jan 28 17:46:42 <Sicelo> brb
Jan 28 17:48:42 <trumee> Sicelo, kp49 is broken imho because of this.
Jan 28 17:50:15 <trumee> freemangordon, ping
Jan 28 18:29:44 <dhbiker> is there any media remote for linux pc
Jan 28 18:29:50 <dhbiker> ?
Jan 28 18:30:34 <trumee> dhbiker, lirc?
Jan 28 18:30:58 <dhbiker> i dont have IR on the pc
Jan 28 18:32:12 <trumee> dhbiker, there are usb ir receivers available
Jan 28 18:32:23 <trumee> dhbiker, or even serial
Jan 28 18:32:32 <Sicelo> trumee: agreed. well, it seems, from what i've read so far, u can't have the best of both worlds. if u need kp functionality some rough edges are inevitable. i only need it for h-e-n
Jan 28 18:32:36 <dhbiker> serial ?
Jan 28 18:32:37 <dhbiker> lol
Jan 28 18:33:57 <trumee> Sicelo, iirc the plan is to merge kp in cssu
Jan 28 18:34:00 <Sicelo> hmmm, the video played even longer just now 
Jan 28 18:34:04 <DocScrutinizer> Sicelo: how's powerkernel related to mp4 playback breakage?
Jan 28 18:34:16 <DocScrutinizer> unless you undervolt or overclock
Jan 28 18:34:56 <trumee> Sicelo, everytime i tried dsp complained.
Jan 28 18:35:18 <Sicelo> trumee:  i guess DocScrutinizer is asking u, not me :P
Jan 28 18:36:31 <DocScrutinizer> powerkernel couldn't do anything regarding DSP, even if it liked to do
Jan 28 18:37:33 <trumee> DocScrutinizer, kp49 breaks video playback even without overclock/underclock
Jan 28 18:37:34 <Sicelo> well DocScrutinizer, trumee has videos that play fine with kp48, and crash dsp on kp49.
Jan 28 18:38:01 <DocScrutinizer> I can't see how pk could cause that
Jan 28 18:41:52 <DocScrutinizer> then otoh I dunno what Pali does to powerkernel that'S not approved in any way, like e.g. that notorious nasty "patch" supposed to "fix" bq27200.ko breakage of bme, but actually the patch breaking whole I2C system on device
Jan 28 18:43:02 <DocScrutinizer> too many kiddies hacking away on kernel, in a way that's incompatible with quality management requirements for system mission critical things like... kernel
Jan 28 18:43:59 <DocScrutinizer> no public discussion with the experts that should know better, no reviews of patches, no evaluations of risk and impact...
Jan 28 18:45:00 <DocScrutinizer> just in line with the common notion GSM stack should be FOSS so everybody could test his weird kinky ideas on real live BTS
Jan 28 18:45:59 <DocScrutinizer> hail industry for never making those wet dreams come true for the pseudo hackers
Jan 28 18:46:37 <trumee> DocScrutinizer, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1156295&postcount=2629
Jan 28 18:46:46 <DocScrutinizer> :shrug:
Jan 28 18:46:56 <RST38h> Doc, you are continuing to repeat this stuff with such conviction, as if you were the embodiment of the whole cell services industry
Jan 28 18:46:58 * DocScrutinizer wonders why he might be interested at all
Jan 28 18:47:24 <RST38h> To which I say: if some moron wants to destroy his phone in the most convoluted way possible, let him
Jan 28 18:47:26 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: no, I'm just a happy user of those cell services
Jan 28 18:47:27 <StyXman> dhbiker: you mean, a media remote control or remote media «share» or remote media streaming?
Jan 28 18:47:44 <RST38h> Happy cell services user? Rare animal these days.
Jan 28 18:47:47 <dhbiker> StyXman: media remote control
Jan 28 18:48:16 <StyXman> dhbiker: well, depends on the media player, they can have web interfaces to control them
Jan 28 18:48:50 <DocScrutinizer> well, with the script kiddie next house trying his newest "improvements" to the way GSM OTA protocol works, I'd probably be a pissed or even arrested for murder cell services user
Jan 28 18:49:27 <dhbiker> StyXman: none of the players that i use have web interface
Jan 28 18:49:36 <RST38h> this will eventually lead to the industry hardening the GSM protocol against tampering, which is a good thing
Jan 28 18:49:53 <DocScrutinizer> haha
Jan 28 18:51:11 <StyXman> dhbiker: then an usb IrDA dongle would be a good option, I guess
Jan 28 18:52:00 <DocScrutinizer> sure, and if one user of thin ethernet (you remember, the one with coax cable) was testing his homegrown PHY on his NIC, thus tearing down your whole network, you probably just say "thank you, this for sure will make industry invent a better protocol to share a medium like a coax cable where you couldn't mess up things anymore"
Jan 28 18:52:45 <StyXman> which is the part in charge of mounting/demounting the partitions that are exported in mass storage mode?
Jan 28 18:52:48 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: dream on!
Jan 28 18:53:28 <DocScrutinizer> ke-recv in addition to some scripts
Jan 28 18:54:27 <StyXman> DocScrutinizer: that last one was for me, right?
Jan 28 18:54:32 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Jan 28 18:54:36 <StyXman> k, tx
Jan 28 18:54:41 <DocScrutinizer> yw
Jan 28 18:55:01 <StyXman> it's incredible how it stubbornly sticks with vfat
Jan 28 18:55:28 <DocScrutinizer> pali (iirc) just recently published a fixed version, to go into CSSU
Jan 28 18:55:48 <StyXman> hmm, I should read about cssu
Jan 28 18:55:52 * StyXman goes to
Jan 28 18:57:12 <DocScrutinizer> http://talk.maemo.org/search.php?searchid=12425760
Jan 28 18:57:53 <DocScrutinizer> not exactly about VFAT, but a good starting point nevertheless
Jan 28 18:58:08 <Macer> damnit
Jan 28 18:58:13 <Macer> have a flat tire
Jan 28 18:58:21 <Macer> and the wind chill is 18F
Jan 28 18:58:23 <Macer> fun fun!
Jan 28 18:58:32 <StyXman> DocScrutinizer: tx again :)
Jan 28 19:02:26 <NIN101> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=ye37Eqdj haha, meltemi is real and there will be some desktop emulator it seems. Nokia loves to paste stuff over pastebin.com.  
Jan 28 19:03:58 <brooklyn> what does it mean
Jan 28 19:04:16 <brooklyn> Elop/WinMo is plan A right now (gotta give it a try i guess)
Jan 28 19:05:57 <brooklyn> DocScruti(:#maemo)] too many kiddies hacking away on kernel <- talk is cheap, i booted Debian on internal eMMC thanks to PAli's fixes on u-boot
Jan 28 19:06:22 <brooklyn> im still lookingn for a nice 3.1/3.2 series kernel for n900 
Jan 28 19:06:35 <brooklyn> with all the drivers from git-repos in quasi-broken state rolled in
Jan 28 19:06:53 <brooklyn> bring on the kernel panics!
Jan 28 19:07:05 <DocScrutinizer> brooklyn: so what? anything you want to tell me?
Jan 28 19:07:17 <brooklyn> nope
Jan 28 19:07:25 <brooklyn> i dont think we should discourage kiddies
Jan 28 19:07:31 <brooklyn> eventually some of them may gain experience, and become useful
Jan 28 19:07:54 <DocScrutinizer> I kick them off my lawn, and my lawn here is *my* kernel
Jan 28 19:07:56 <brooklyn> maybe one will be sick of all this abandonware and go found a NOKIA competitor in their garage, CordiaHD style but actualy get somewhere
Jan 28 19:08:34 <DocScrutinizer> they can mess with *their* kernel all they want, but stay the fuck away of publicly used kernels
Jan 28 19:08:45 <brooklyn> oh sure enough
Jan 28 19:08:56 <brooklyn> all im familiar with is .deb's downloaded from http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/
Jan 28 19:09:41 <brooklyn> when i DL .deb's off some random .cz site i know what im getting into :)
Jan 28 19:10:05 <brooklyn> like those FM '76-88' modules that broke my GPS
Jan 28 19:10:53 <DocScrutinizer> err wut?
Jan 28 19:11:49 <DocScrutinizer> whatever, pali shouldn't intergrate each and every shit into powerkernel indiscriminately
Jan 28 19:13:14 <brooklyn> there must be some regression-test suite that core kernel devs use
Jan 28 19:13:29 <brooklyn> perhaps in a special hacked up Xen/VBox instance
Jan 28 19:14:20 <StyXman> brooklyn: it depends on if you're testing the core kernel or some hardware driver
Jan 28 19:14:20 <DocScrutinizer> there's two classes of kernel "patches", one is stuff like that bq27200.ko module that is strictly optional and I can opt to keep it off my system (which actually I like to do as it breaks things), the other is patches like to i2c driver to make such a broken module "work", which breaks whole kernel, can smoke up my hardware, and I got NO option to keep it out of new kernel version I might want to install
Jan 28 19:14:30 <StyXman> the latter is not much virtualizabe
Jan 28 19:15:35 <DocScrutinizer> brooklyn: there's no such thing, as kernel is simply too complex to do automatic regression tests that would reliably reveal fuckups like the one done to I2C driver by neutering the exclusive lock of bus
Jan 28 19:15:37 * StyXman cssu'd
Jan 28 19:19:58 <DocScrutinizer> brooklyn: that's probably the reason why only experienced kernel hackers should send patches "upstream" - for us "upstream" pretty much is powerkernel
Jan 28 19:22:12 <DocScrutinizer> and fools thinking it's a nice idea to patch some hack into a working driver (here I2C) to change the API semantics so another (broken fubar) driver (here bq27200.ko) could still work - OMG I can't tell what I got ideas for those fools
Jan 28 19:23:22 <DocScrutinizer> no way to cure this by any automated regression test
Jan 28 19:23:24 <brooklyn> i with NIN, abandon 2.6.28-maemo ASAP
Jan 28 19:23:35 <DocScrutinizer> those fols would also patch the test XP
Jan 28 19:23:59 <DocScrutinizer> pfff
Jan 28 19:24:18 <StyXman> DocScrutinizer: I think it's better to channelize their enthusiasm
Jan 28 19:24:19 <brooklyn> the vanila implementations for HW in n900 has diff API than whatever gunk is in .28
Jan 28 19:24:28 <brooklyn> so userspace stuff talking to it is quasibroken in debian sid, etc
Jan 28 19:24:35 <brooklyn> cyou really need to get on a proper kernel if you want to move beyond maemo
Jan 28 19:25:06 <DocScrutinizer> brooklyn: fine! so what do you suggest for the blobs we got on 28 to make things like DSP work?
Jan 28 19:25:13 <NIN101> brooklyn: I never made such statement. I said you shouldn't take it with you when you want to play around with other distros. Besides that, you can't really use anything else than 2.6.28 on maemo. 
Jan 28 19:25:14 <brooklyn> hmm
Jan 28 19:25:38 <brooklyn> HW decoding of mp3s via gst?
Jan 28 19:25:40 <brooklyn> not sure what DSP module does
Jan 28 19:26:02 <DocScrutinizer> well, maybe you got an idea what liblocation does, then?
Jan 28 19:26:16 <brooklyn> all i know is, Maep open, fm player crashes after a few minutes, i cant even multitask 2 basic apps on maemo
Jan 28 19:26:32 <brooklyn> so im definitely wanting to try a modern kernel and *completely* different stack on top
Jan 28 19:26:49 <DocScrutinizer> whatever that means
Jan 28 19:26:58 <brooklyn> or better yet, sell the N900 while its still worth something and wait for Tizen or so
Jan 28 19:27:26 <DocScrutinizer> go ahead, then leave this chan and don't annoy users that are "happy" with their N900
Jan 28 19:27:41 <brooklyn> im happy with mine
Jan 28 19:29:10 <brooklyn> and suggesting peopole with different viewpoints to leav eis pretty terrible
Jan 28 19:29:17 <brooklyn> way to get an insular circlejerk
Jan 28 19:29:31 <brooklyn> in retrospect, i shouldnt have bought n900. its not really open
Jan 28 19:29:41 <brooklyn> should have just gotten a 4.3 " archos tablet and run Mer or Ubuntu
Jan 28 19:30:03 * DocScrutinizer multitasks ~15 basic and not so basic "apps" on his N900 this very moment, and shrugs
Jan 28 19:30:12 <brooklyn> i bought into the "hey, ,its linke, GTK"
Jan 28 19:30:28 <brooklyn> ithotu realizazing its a birdsnest of interdpendncis almost impossible to upgrad any pic
Jan 28 19:31:05 * DocScrutinizer also announces a trolling warning against brooklyn
Jan 28 19:31:07 <brooklyn> id like PulseAudio to talk to Pulse on Arch/Gentoo/Debian over the network, but Maemo's version is too old
Jan 28 19:31:20 <brooklyn> but i cant upgrade it, cuz of propreitary drivers, gst modules, dsp blobs, blah blah
Jan 28 19:31:27 <brooklyn> it goes on and on lik this
Jan 28 19:31:29 <brooklyn> im not trolling
Jan 28 19:31:37 <brooklyn> i just am not a damn fanboy, i made a pragmatic choice
Jan 28 19:31:46 <brooklyn> it was certainly preferable to android/iOS
Jan 28 19:32:32 <brooklyn> chromium in a debian chroot randomly 'poofs' and who knows if its some armhf vs armel on ancient kernel issue or xorg version creep
Jan 28 19:32:41 <brooklyn> ive experiencexd X poofs on slight version mismatches for decades now
Jan 28 19:33:04 <brooklyn> so i cant run 2 apps at once w/o one crapping out, i cant run a modern web browser stablely, i cant upgrade anything, and theres a ton of proprietary fgunk
Jan 28 19:33:26 <brooklyn> and upgrading to debian-sid breaks even more hardware support. so yay...
Jan 28 19:33:49 <DocScrutinizer> SO WHAT?
Jan 28 19:33:57 <DocScrutinizer> thanks for informing us!
Jan 28 19:34:00 <Sicelo> brooklyn: talk to estel wrt chromium on deb chroot.. he says it works better for him than even microb
Jan 28 19:34:10 <brooklyn> so, i have a paperweight basically
Jan 28 19:34:23 <brooklyn> never again..
Jan 28 19:35:52 <Sicelo> btw what kernel is on harmattan?
Jan 28 19:36:06 <NIN101> 2.6.32
Jan 28 19:36:34 <DocScrutinizer> oh, he left? :-( too bad, I was pleased I finally kick him
Jan 28 19:36:41 <Sicelo> nice. same as on my debian squeeze
Jan 28 19:38:08 <DocScrutinizer> the one thing you hear for sure of every troll you ask to stop doing that: "BUT BUT, I *am* not trolling!"
Jan 28 19:41:11 <DocScrutinizer> coming to #maemo and suggesting we all should abandon maemo as fast as possible surely is one of the more lame trolling I ever seen
Jan 28 19:42:05 <dhbiker> lol
Jan 28 19:43:21 <nid0> at least my n900 still works, im sure his suggested archos alternative would be a literal paperweight by now
Jan 28 19:47:39 <dhbiker> meh i like maemo
Jan 28 19:47:51 <dhbiker> no need for anything else
Jan 28 19:48:51 <DocScrutinizer> actually I hate maemo almost as much as this troll seems to do, but there's no point in bitching and moaning, as that won't change a bit about all the maybe not all made up shortcomings he listed in his monologue
Jan 28 19:49:47 <DocScrutinizer> still I know maemo enough by now to know my way around, and it's pretty usable on a day by day basis, thanks to all the nice guys taking care about it
Jan 28 19:50:02 <DocScrutinizer> NOT Nokia guys!
Jan 28 19:52:12 <DocScrutinizer> there are a few inside Nokia that still care about maemo, mostly in their leissure time I guess. Nokia at large evidently stopped maemo support though pretty much. 
Jan 28 19:53:23 <dhbiker> yeah
Jan 28 19:53:27 <dhbiker> its usable
Jan 28 19:53:32 <dhbiker> just like any other phone
Jan 28 19:57:16 <DocScrutinizer> and for now in my book maemo fremantle still is way more functional and mature and rock solid than any alternative, like mer or meego harmattan, or whatever else lines up to apply for a "phone linux" label
Jan 28 19:58:05 <dhbiker> heh
Jan 28 19:58:17 <dhbiker> i only miss the equalizer
Jan 28 19:58:33 <dhbiker> but ill do it soon
Jan 28 19:58:33 <DocScrutinizer> yep, equalizer is a long missing feature
Jan 28 19:58:33 <dhbiker> :P
Jan 28 19:58:45 <DocScrutinizer> much appreciated
Jan 28 19:59:31 <StyXman> there's an audio player which says to have an eq. I haven't tried it...
Jan 28 19:59:48 <DocScrutinizer> you know about the hw parametric EQ in codec, and about boostN900 ?
Jan 28 19:59:50 <dhbiker> i have it
Jan 28 19:59:59 <dhbiker> its only 8 band
Jan 28 20:00:42 <dhbiker> app is called symfonie
Jan 28 20:00:48 <DocScrutinizer> well, 8 band graphic EQ seems good enough for all but studio equipment
Jan 28 20:01:10 <dhbiker> not good enough for me :P
Jan 28 20:01:19 <DocScrutinizer> and implementing the EQ into the mp3 decoder seems the most reasonable thing you could do
Jan 28 20:01:39 <dhbiker> you can also use alsa equalizer
Jan 28 20:01:40 <DocScrutinizer> performance and architecture wise
Jan 28 20:01:45 <dhbiker> like i don on the pc 
Jan 28 20:01:50 <dhbiker> do*
Jan 28 20:03:38 <DocScrutinizer> sure, but that means you encode from frequency domain (mp3) to time domain (analog/wav/PCM), than back to frequency domain (FFT in EQ) then after some leveling on 8 or 16 ranges you again do a freq->time domain conversation
Jan 28 20:03:53 <dhbiker> true
Jan 28 20:04:04 <dhbiker> we will see how it goes
Jan 28 20:04:22 <dhbiker> its worth trying :P
Jan 28 20:04:35 <DocScrutinizer> it will work but sure has potentially lower quality and about 3 to 4 times the CPU load
Jan 28 20:05:00 <DocScrutinizer> both no showstopper but not really nice
Jan 28 20:06:00 <dhbiker> well then we will write or port a good media player :P
Jan 28 20:07:31 <fizzie> ALSA equalizer (at least the 'alsaequal' one) is built on time-domain IIR filters, not fft-scale-fft.
Jan 28 20:07:50 <DocScrutinizer> I'd *love* to see EQ in mohammediaplayer, but alas it is just using mafw and mafw does the mp3 decoding and has no EQ afaik
Jan 28 20:08:52 <DocScrutinizer> fizzie: true, but still above reasoning applies and would suggest to better do the filtering *before* mp3->time-domain
Jan 28 20:15:29 <dhbiker> heh here's the catch
Jan 28 20:15:34 <dhbiker> what if i use FLAC
Jan 28 20:15:35 <dhbiker> :P
Jan 28 20:17:13 <DocScrutinizer> indeed
Jan 28 20:17:23 <DocScrutinizer> good point
Jan 28 20:17:44 <DocScrutinizer> I actually have several FLAC records on my N900
Jan 28 20:18:02 * dhbiker will have to think about the solution
Jan 28 20:18:17 <DocScrutinizer> well, I think in the end we'll just be fine with a system wide EQ
Jan 28 20:18:54 <dhbiker> yeah... BUT this can break stuff like voice calls
Jan 28 20:18:59 <dhbiker> probably
Jan 28 20:19:00 <DocScrutinizer> yet, have a look into the both topics I posted for you above: hw EQ and boost
Jan 28 20:19:46 <dhbiker> k
Jan 28 20:19:57 <DocScrutinizer> dhbiker: well, for sure we need to consider carefully about integration of that alsaEQ into current system
Jan 28 20:20:37 <DocScrutinizer> also check alsaped and all the weird stuff around it, boost will directly link you to that
Jan 28 20:21:29 <dhbiker> yup
Jan 28 20:21:30 <DocScrutinizer> alas again a topic with absolutely no docs available anywhere I'd know of
Jan 28 20:21:42 * dhbiker will have to do a big research
Jan 28 20:21:55 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, it's a demanding topic
Jan 28 20:22:32 <dhbiker> i look at it as challenge :)
Jan 28 20:22:34 <DocScrutinizer> as Nokia didn't bother to explain any least significant bit about their audio design operation principles
Jan 28 20:23:01 <DocScrutinizer> Policy Enforcer Daemon - wut?
Jan 28 20:23:43 <DocScrutinizer> actually *that's* why I hate maemo
Jan 28 20:23:53 <dhbiker> heh
Jan 28 20:33:47 <dhbiker> too bad that n900 has so weak battery
Jan 28 20:34:58 <StyXman> that's why I have 3 and an external charger
Jan 28 20:35:03 <dhbiker> lol
Jan 28 20:35:25 <dhbiker> good idea
Jan 28 20:35:26 <dhbiker> :P
Jan 28 20:35:44 <StyXman> 2 batts and the charger for less that 15 euros
Jan 28 20:37:58 <dhbiker> not original i guess
Jan 28 20:38:08 <StyXman> nop-e
Jan 28 20:39:03 <dhbiker> thought so
Jan 28 20:39:11 <dhbiker> how many mAh ?
Jan 28 20:39:31 <StyXman> 1320
Jan 28 20:40:41 <dhbiker> qtirreco dowsnt want to download a remote -.-
Jan 28 20:41:52 <dhbiker> LOL http request failed
Jan 28 20:41:56 <dhbiker> and then freeze -.-
Jan 28 20:47:02 <DocScrutinizer> me doesn't like the qt flavour of irreco
Jan 28 20:47:27 <DocScrutinizer> btw I dunno what you mean by "weak battery"
Jan 28 20:47:38 <dhbiker> like 1 day authonomy
Jan 28 20:48:14 <DocScrutinizer> my battery lasts at least 14h with always-internet and active xchat, via GSM/GPRS
Jan 28 20:48:33 <dhbiker> well thats a weak battery for me :P
Jan 28 20:48:53 <DocScrutinizer> when sitting idle (with xchat and WLAN) at home, battery easily lasts >>48h
Jan 28 20:49:13 <RST38h> Doc: For some people, any battery is going to be weak
Jan 28 20:49:33 <DocScrutinizer> dhbiker: haha, show me any other device that does 14h of data connection over GPRS from one battery
Jan 28 20:49:42 <dhbiker> umm
Jan 28 20:49:51 * dhbiker can't think of any
Jan 28 20:50:19 <StyXman> dhbiker: that's pretty standard for smartphones
Jan 28 20:50:41 <dhbiker> i guess
Jan 28 20:50:43 <DocScrutinizer> sure, as no other device will support this usage pattern, they all freeze internet connection and background tasks as soon as you lock the screen
Jan 28 20:50:51 <dhbiker> yup
Jan 28 20:51:59 <dhbiker> do you have any of that battery improvement stuff installed <'
Jan 28 20:52:02 <dhbiker> ?*
Jan 28 20:58:49 <DocScrutinizer> no way, all that crap does exactly the opposite of what it's supposed to do
Jan 28 21:01:39 <DocScrutinizer> and those battery usage and whatnot apps are more or less doing exactly what the name suggests: use battery :-D
Jan 28 21:02:09 <dhbiker> lol
Jan 28 21:02:10 <dhbiker> :D
Jan 28 21:02:51 <DocScrutinizer> I recall one of those battery eye apps increasing CPU load from 0% to some xx%, thus reducing idle battery standby from several days to several hours
Jan 28 21:03:16 <dhbiker> i didnt even installed that
Jan 28 21:03:19 <dhbiker> i was like
Jan 28 21:03:27 <dhbiker> battery improvement... yeah right
Jan 28 21:03:28 <dhbiker> xD
Jan 28 21:03:51 <DocScrutinizer> quite helpful to know why your battery doesn't last as long as you'd like it to, no? ;-P NOW you know exactly why it depletes in hours
Jan 28 21:04:08 <dhbiker> heheh
Jan 28 21:04:42 <dhbiker> it depleted in hours because i was installing many apps and didnt let it sleep
Jan 28 21:04:42 <dhbiker> :P
Jan 28 21:06:02 <DocScrutinizer> quite usually - meh almost *always* - there are exactly one or two reasons for short battery standby: some IM alike app that causes constant traffic to internet thus keeping modem or WLAN active all the time. And desktop widgets refresging like mad and thus hogging CPU
Jan 28 21:07:03 <dhbiker> is there any way to disable this vibrating on touch screen 
Jan 28 21:07:07 <dhbiker> i hate it
Jan 28 21:07:15 <dhbiker> and cant find the setting -.-
Jan 28 21:07:19 <DocScrutinizer> there's a third possible reason though, that can't basically get fixed by N900: inbound pings on internet connection which always keep the device active to answer them
Jan 28 21:07:36 <DocScrutinizer> *sigh*
Jan 28 21:07:57 <DocScrutinizer> somewhere in settings, input method, or kbd, or profile/sounds
Jan 28 21:08:26 <DocScrutinizer> Profile
Jan 28 21:08:43 <DocScrutinizer> settings->profile
Jan 28 21:09:03 <DocScrutinizer> oops nope
Jan 28 21:09:24 <dhbiker> liar liar pants on fire :P
Jan 28 21:09:35 <DocScrutinizer> settings->screen
Jan 28 21:09:49 <dhbiker> yeah just found it
Jan 28 21:09:51 <dhbiker> tnx xD
Jan 28 21:21:02 * noobmonkey blinks
Jan 28 21:49:14 <DocScrutinizer> wow, noobmonkey
Jan 28 21:50:23 <dhbiker> heh
Jan 28 22:44:11 * dhbiker leaves with darth theme in the background
Jan 28 22:44:16 <dhbiker> vader*
Jan 28 22:44:17 <dhbiker> :p
Jan 28 22:44:27 <dhbiker> later
Jan 29 00:53:51 <FIQ|n900> Totally unrelated but still worth discussing. An "other" of sorts. No religious or political topics please.
Jan 29 00:53:52 <FIQ|n900> Last post: The epic ACTA thread by szopin  @ Today 04:20 PM Go to last post
Jan 29 00:53:54 <FIQ|n900> hm...
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jan 29 02:59:58 2012