**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 10 02:59:57 2012 Feb 10 04:31:52 hi.. can I write a script that will turn on the fmtransmitter, connect to a nearby wifi and then tune in to a shoutcaststream via the mediaplayer? I'm thinking cron or fcron and bash.. but maybe there is need for actual programming in order to do this? Feb 10 04:41:18 sounds like an alamrmclaaock Feb 10 05:06:13 hey does anyone here use emulators? Feb 10 05:06:26 I'm looking for a psx one that works Feb 10 05:06:42 or neogeo Feb 10 05:07:40 also I'm running the latest power kernel, I can't find a usb host mode enabler, is it in the devel repository or what? Feb 10 05:07:54 H-E-N Feb 10 05:08:03 h-e-n is the package IIRC Feb 10 05:08:20 what package Feb 10 05:08:30 Feb 10 05:09:42 is it in devel Feb 10 05:09:48 it's not in extras testing Feb 10 05:43:20 after battery change, my n900 will forget the date and time. it goes back to 2009. I installed openntpd with correct server. time and date does not change. Feb 10 05:43:58 I also put "update automatically" on settings -> time and date. still no change to the correct time/date Feb 10 05:44:17 and I have 2 ntpd processes running Feb 10 05:45:29 any other solutions available? Feb 10 05:58:33 hmm.. I hade to change the date to be closer to this date. tried 36 hours late time Feb 10 06:03:00 oilinki: N900 assumes it gets time from cellular network Feb 10 06:03:27 luke-jr: seems that my network (DTAC, Thailand) does not support the feature Feb 10 06:04:22 I need to find some other solution as I have to change battery while I'm geocaching. Feb 10 06:04:51 I'm trying with busybox power Feb 10 06:07:09 oilinki: openntpd Feb 10 06:07:16 oilinki: or something similar to that Feb 10 06:07:16 ah Feb 10 06:07:19 right - nvm Feb 10 06:07:23 I tried that, but not work Feb 10 06:07:37 anyway I need to check the server again Feb 10 06:40:25 i don't seem to get rdate working. Feb 10 06:42:51 * Sicelo uses ntpdate Feb 10 06:43:40 and i put script to run it whenever an interface comes up Feb 10 06:47:14 where did you found the ntpdate? Feb 10 06:48:06 not too sure anymore .. but i can upload for u, if u wish Feb 10 06:48:26 that would be great Feb 10 06:49:14 found original location Feb 10 06:49:14 upload to web or by IRC? not sure if the IRC option works with my proxy. Feb 10 06:49:26 http://home.mminternet.com/delaroca/index.html/ Feb 10 06:49:41 Sicelo: big thanks! Feb 10 06:50:34 yw Feb 10 06:56:42 of course u need to `hwclock -w` afterwards :0 Feb 10 06:56:44 :) **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 10 07:28:11 2012 Feb 10 07:32:02 oilinki: openntpd is not the best (or even right) solution to particularly this problem, at least in standard config, with running daemon all the time Feb 10 07:32:38 aah, Sicelo__ had the correct suggestion Feb 10 07:36:00 Sicelo__: oilinki: (hwclock --systohc) only &&, otherwise you'll set it to nonsense time when ntpdate failed. also use --noadjfile Feb 10 07:36:28 (--noadjfile) *very* important Feb 10 07:39:13 * Sicelo__ makes a note to read more carefully about --noadjfile Feb 10 07:39:56 i haven't one .. so far all's been ok.. but i get the point Feb 10 07:39:57 :) Feb 10 07:41:57 oilinki: if you want to avoid all the trouble, you'd either want to replace the backup battery coin cell by a capacitor, or learn to minimize the time the device is without main battery. Even with broken backup bat (usual on this crappy cell) the RTC should survive some 10 seconds, for sur it survives 3s Feb 10 07:42:09 ~bupbat Feb 10 07:42:35 hmm, ibot gone again Feb 10 07:44:06 Indeed - it's pretty trivail to change teh battery in sub 0.5s Feb 10 07:44:17 (ntpdate) openntpd --foobar is the same Feb 10 07:44:33 lift up edge of battery opposite contacts, slife in new battery under old. Feb 10 07:44:39 slide. Feb 10 07:44:44 yep Feb 10 07:44:59 works like it was designed for that Feb 10 07:45:55 wait, did you say "geocaching" ? Feb 10 07:46:30 * DocScrutinizer wonders what's status of GPS stratum-x server for ntpd Feb 10 07:47:03 has anybody finally added that elementary GPS function yet? Feb 10 07:47:09 what's this about changing the battery in under 0.5s ? Feb 10 07:47:35 Gear_: not to lose your RTC time Feb 10 07:47:54 it only takes 0.5s to lose it? Feb 10 07:48:06 when you're member of the broken-bupbat club (a club with many members) Feb 10 07:48:12 that's so crap. Feb 10 07:48:27 no, it usually takes 10 .. 120s even when bupbat is borked Feb 10 07:48:57 I lost the time when I took the screen off Feb 10 07:49:07 that took like 10 minutes at least Feb 10 07:49:15 alas this cell is *known* to break for ~90% of users after 12 months Feb 10 07:49:24 which cell? where is it? Feb 10 07:49:47 it should keep the RTC up for several weeks or even months, by design Feb 10 07:49:59 or at least 10-20 minutes :/ Feb 10 07:50:08 inside, soldered to PCB, next to power button Feb 10 07:50:18 that sounds like a bitch to get to Feb 10 07:50:28 it is, somewhat Feb 10 07:51:01 anyway I found a nice replacement for those of you who want to do the soldering fancy Feb 10 07:51:12 alas infobot is down right now Feb 10 07:51:15 what size cell is it? Feb 10 07:51:30 when she's back, you can ask her for ~bupbat IIRC Feb 10 07:51:55 I was thinking about soldering the usb connector pretty soon Feb 10 07:51:57 Gear_: IIRC 11mm dia, 1.2mm thick Feb 10 07:52:19 replace by supercap Feb 10 07:52:33 as the LiIon type cells are prone to break Feb 10 07:52:45 what's supercap Feb 10 07:53:02 my replacement suggestion is a compatible drop in replacement C-type Feb 10 07:53:20 Gear_: 1Farad capacitor, sth like that Feb 10 07:53:46 one farad? Feb 10 07:53:53 that's not possible Feb 10 07:53:53 yep, SIC Feb 10 07:54:06 it is possible Feb 10 07:54:16 see goldcap, supercap etc Feb 10 07:55:01 maybe that particular cell replacement has just 0.1F Feb 10 07:55:01 the last one farad capacitor I saw was HUGE Feb 10 07:55:46 since when is battery life measured in farads Feb 10 07:55:52 I don't mind how much F it has, it's a replacement made for that purpose, and it's a C Feb 10 07:56:22 seems I recall it has 70mF actually Feb 10 07:56:22 haveyou soldered the usb connector? Feb 10 07:56:38 have to run for daywork, cya Feb 10 07:56:59 damn. bye Feb 10 07:57:06 ask SpeedEvil about supercap etc, he knows about it since FR iirc Feb 10 07:57:39 I wanna know if the usb host mode can be activated by command line Feb 10 07:57:59 sure Feb 10 07:58:02 and I also want to install some emulators Feb 10 07:58:03 no problem Feb 10 09:21:54 the media player does not find my music files. how can I force a rescanning? Feb 10 09:23:51 at least I can tell SomePlayer where to find them, and it plays them ok Feb 10 09:28:23 StyXman_: You can try moving the files to a different place and back after a while Feb 10 09:28:43 There's also an option to rebuild the whole DB. I don't know off hand, but I think it's in the wiki. Feb 10 09:31:29 eijk: I can´t even find the right keywords to search in the wiki Feb 10 09:34:46 StyXman_: Google "n900 rebuild media database" will give you as second match http://blog.tersmitten.nl/archives/961 Feb 10 09:35:47 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43523 Feb 10 09:36:02 eijk: ah, duh, I stopped when I didn´t find it in the wiki :[ Feb 10 09:37:58 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=80738 Feb 10 09:38:17 StyXman_: yeah, I guess, it's not in the wiki Feb 10 09:39:06 yeah, silly me Feb 10 09:39:12 ok, thanks Feb 10 11:09:31 guys, is maemo still being worked on? or is it rather a dead horse ... Feb 10 11:09:50 it's been a while since i recieved the last update on my n900 Feb 10 12:15:44 lol Feb 10 13:18:13 hey Feb 10 13:18:28 anyone has an idea on how to change the Maintainer on a maemo package? Feb 10 13:19:30 I changed the field in the .deb and got the original maintainer to promote my package but apparently it doesn't update automatically on the web interface Feb 10 13:19:35 so I can't promote future version Feb 10 13:21:52 maybe try poke X-Fade Feb 10 13:41:18 Meanwhile: Report: Saudi Arabia to buy nukes if Iran tests A-bomb Feb 10 13:42:50 X-Fade: poke? can you help me change the Maintainer on a maemo package? Feb 10 13:50:05 staz_: Sure, what's up? Feb 10 14:38:16 X-Fade: wjt doesn't want to maintain his Sojourner package since he doesn't have a n900 anymore so I agreed to do it in his stead Feb 10 14:38:31 but we can't find out how to change the maintainer on the website so I can promote package directly Feb 10 14:38:52 staz_: On the packages site, you can request to be maintainer. Feb 10 14:39:34 staz_: http://maemo.org/packages/view/sojourner/ (if you are logged in) Feb 10 14:40:45 wow can't believe I missed that, thanks a lot! Feb 10 14:41:01 X-Fade: he will be the one that need to accept the request? Feb 10 14:41:12 staz_: Yes, or I can do it too. Feb 10 14:42:29 it's ok I will ask him to do it Feb 10 14:42:30 thanks Feb 10 14:42:58 staz_: Yeah, so you can request it there and he can approve you there. Feb 10 15:08:25 hey does anyone here use emulators Feb 10 15:10:23 in particular I'm looking for anyone who is using working neogeo or psx emulators Feb 10 17:40:48 hello Feb 10 17:42:18 EHLO Feb 10 17:43:28 'lo Feb 10 17:43:32 there's a huge lack of music production software for the n900 Feb 10 17:43:38 as in, ALL of it Feb 10 17:44:28 nah, there's been some sorta synthesizer IIRC Feb 10 17:45:00 I found a piano and something else, adn they're both just toys :/ Feb 10 17:45:09 501 Syntax: EHLO hostname Feb 10 17:45:10 there's a realy hurtin lack of any video editing SW though Feb 10 17:45:27 also sound editing software Feb 10 17:45:38 the thing would be a powerhouse Feb 10 17:45:58 EHLO unaffiliated/virtuald Feb 10 17:46:43 250-STARTTLS Feb 10 17:46:43 SpeedEvil Feb 10 17:46:56 FRQJKFDJDKJFE Feb 10 17:47:01 . Feb 10 17:47:04 :) Feb 10 17:47:10 how come I'm banned from #electronics Feb 10 17:47:20 I've never even used freenode in my life Feb 10 17:47:32 synthesizer ==sunvox Feb 10 17:47:42 Gear_: mompls, I'll check Feb 10 17:47:55 or not, too much hussle Feb 10 17:48:21 can you guess? Feb 10 17:48:40 I think I opened xchat like 9 hours ago Feb 10 17:49:02 and didn't use it, now it says I can't send to the channel while banned Feb 10 17:49:32 your domain might be banned: vic.optusnet.com.au Feb 10 17:49:45 User might be banned Feb 10 17:49:58 not me Feb 10 17:50:07 I hope not my whole isp Feb 10 17:50:11 actually I think it's more likely they don't want lamers that use "User" for username Feb 10 17:50:33 what username Feb 10 17:50:45 [Whois] Gear_ ist ~User@d110-33-182-10.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au (User) Feb 10 17:51:16 how do I change that Feb 10 17:51:29 in xchat go to settings Feb 10 17:52:04 actually go to network list Feb 10 17:52:30 pick "freenode" from list of networks -> edit Feb 10 17:52:38 "your details" Feb 10 17:53:16 there's "nickname" (obvious, uh?), "user name" and "real name" Feb 10 17:53:51 the real name is the "(User)" above, while "user name" is the "User@d1..." above Feb 10 17:54:01 IIRC Feb 10 17:54:07 there aren't those options Feb 10 17:54:25 can't I use /ident Feb 10 17:54:29 well, no windoze here, I'm deducing it from xchat for N900 Feb 10 17:54:44 yeah I'm using a netbook Feb 10 17:54:52 what's the irc command for it? Feb 10 17:55:15 NFC, there's no "IRC cmmand" it's a setting in your client Feb 10 17:55:43 Gear_: protocol wise it's sent before anything else and there is no command to change it Feb 10 17:55:46 as far as I hate Windoze, I'd guess: file->networklist Feb 10 17:55:49 so the client has to know about beforehand Feb 10 17:55:55 DocScrutinizer: yep right Feb 10 17:56:35 can't find the setting Feb 10 17:56:48 network list - you found that? Feb 10 17:57:01 find the setting where you set up to connect to freenode, then there is a tick for use global ident Feb 10 17:57:07 untick and insted insert proper information Feb 10 17:57:25 or fix your global ident settings (though I have nfc where's that) Feb 10 17:57:46 and ofc reconnect when you're done Feb 10 17:58:27 recall my MX5500 bitching, anybody? Feb 10 17:58:48 yep Feb 10 17:58:59 also recall you posting some url with wierd ass driver Feb 10 17:59:16 did it blow up by now? Feb 10 17:59:22 well, meanwhile the cutest most expensive mouse on earth lost its single unique feature Feb 10 17:59:47 wheel doesn't have clicks anymore Feb 10 17:59:48 and that would be (mouse and feature) ? Feb 10 18:00:18 I.E. even while in click-by-click mode, the wheel is mostly freewheeeling Feb 10 18:00:28 ouch Feb 10 18:00:30 mech defect Feb 10 18:00:35 after 5 days Feb 10 18:01:24 and BOY, that SUCKS to have a free spinning wheel that moves on slightest touch Feb 10 18:01:51 is anyone here into electronics Feb 10 18:01:57 shoot Feb 10 18:02:12 EE here Feb 10 18:02:48 I want to mix like 3 line level signals into 1 output Feb 10 18:02:57 since they're all being attenuated Feb 10 18:03:27 err, yes? Feb 10 18:03:37 go ahead Feb 10 18:03:46 can I just have like a common ground and sort of fade the signal into the one source with apot? Feb 10 18:04:10 or will that blow all my stuff up. Feb 10 18:04:45 nah, you can't blow up stuff on line in/out Feb 10 18:04:54 unless you connect it to mains ;-P Feb 10 18:05:23 will that work for mixing a few different signals into the one? Feb 10 18:05:52 dammit, the droid 4 was released on verizon today Feb 10 18:05:56 and it doesn't have umts Feb 10 18:06:32 connect each of 3 line-out to both ends of a 500R potentiometer, connect all GND sides, connect the 3 middle pins of the 3 pots via 3 500R into 1 output Feb 10 18:07:14 whats' 500R ? Feb 10 18:07:38 better yet: connect the inputs to the middle pins of the pots, and the upper pins to the 500R that go to output Feb 10 18:07:42 I want to use a separate pot for each Feb 10 18:07:44 500 Ohm Feb 10 18:08:18 probably a stereo signal too Feb 10 18:08:24 each pot has 3 pins: 1, 2, 3. 2 is the middle one, that'S "moving" Feb 10 18:08:41 wiper Feb 10 18:08:51 you connect all pins 1 and GND of inputs and outputs Feb 10 18:09:10 you connect each input to one pin 2 of a pot Feb 10 18:09:26 you connect a 500R resistor to each pin 3 Feb 10 18:09:43 you connect the other end of all 3 resistors to output Feb 10 18:10:25 for stereo, take this x 2 Feb 10 18:11:32 if you can't find 500R (470R) pots, you can also use 1kR Feb 10 18:12:37 * DocScrutinizer idly wonders if a linear or a log pot was the best choice for this circuit and usecase Feb 10 18:13:11 I guess linear will do Feb 10 18:13:51 umm, no, use log pots Feb 10 18:14:26 otherwise you'll not hear much of a difference in volume for the upper half of your pot range Feb 10 18:15:30 well, I'm a bit tired right now, don't blame me if your results are not 100% ideal Feb 10 18:15:52 I'm trying to picture it Feb 10 18:15:55 I'm calculating the whole mess in my head Feb 10 18:16:12 but it's also 5:20am and I have to sleep Feb 10 18:16:19 thanks for the help Feb 10 18:16:24 * RST38h yawns wonders what's up Feb 10 18:16:34 but I'll probably ask again Feb 10 18:16:40 it:s 19:16 here, time for a first beer after a week of windoze annoyance Feb 10 18:17:03 hrhrhr Feb 10 18:17:08 RST38h: passive 3 in 1 audio mixer Feb 10 18:17:20 line level Feb 10 18:17:49 I'll come back with this question tomorrow or something Feb 10 18:17:56 NP Feb 10 18:18:00 cheers Feb 10 18:18:05 YW Feb 10 18:19:06 hi, is there a way to type unicode chars in maemo5 on the n900? Feb 10 18:19:40 RST38h: source impedance ~10...500R, load impedance ~1...50k Feb 10 18:20:12 I need the utf-8 char number 158 dec/9E hex Feb 10 18:21:40 http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/block/miscellaneous_symbols/utf8test.htm Feb 10 18:22:18 DocScrutinizer: isnt there a way to type it within the OS then? Feb 10 18:22:18 actually http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/block/index.htm Feb 10 18:22:28 sure Feb 10 18:23:01 Doc: Well, if it is going to make any sound, it won;t be much Feb 10 18:23:20 And WON'T BE FOR LONG Feb 10 18:24:31 DocScrutinizer: do you know how? Feb 10 18:25:23 I guess I could try to write a small c++ program that prints it in xterm but surely there must be an easier way Feb 10 18:26:00 printf \uHHHH Unicode (ISO/IEC 10646) character with hex value HHHH (4 digits) Feb 10 18:26:26 RST38h: eh? Feb 10 18:26:57 RST38h: I said "line level", not powerline level, neither speaker level Feb 10 18:27:46 can it be a 2digit hexvalue? Feb 10 18:28:10 or must it be \u009E Feb 10 18:28:13 thugh you're right, for the nastiest of devices - those with a source impedance of <16R - you should get a series 100R in the input, not to fry the pot Feb 10 18:28:27 arvut: man 1 printf Feb 10 18:29:54 hmm "printf \u009E" only returns \u009E Feb 10 18:54:38 arvut: printf '\u\x00\x24' Feb 10 18:55:07 arvut: Unicode characters in the ranges U+0000...U+009F, U+D800...U+DFFF cannot be specified by this syntax, except for U+0024 ($), U+0040 (@), and U+0060 ()`. Feb 10 18:56:56 >> The processing of `\u' and `\U' requires a full-featured `iconv' facility. It is activated on systems with glibc 2.2 (or newer), or when `libiconv' is installed prior to this package.<< Feb 10 19:01:21 err, actually the syntax I used above also doesn't work Feb 10 19:03:32 hmm Feb 10 19:04:49 the manual mentions that U and u too but u is a 4digit hex while U is a 8 digit. I do not fully understand the syntax tho Feb 10 19:07:01 where does the [-v var] come in? Feb 10 19:07:12 arvut: env printf '\u20AC 14.95\n' Feb 10 19:07:26 without env, bash craps out Feb 10 19:08:11 what is 14.95\? Feb 10 19:08:14 -> € 14.95€ Feb 10 19:08:18 -> € 14.95 Feb 10 19:08:19 ah Feb 10 19:08:56 vs " \u20AC 14.95 " in bash, w/o env Feb 10 19:10:07 still 009E is in invalid range, so prints "as is" Feb 10 19:10:25 how come? Feb 10 19:10:45 ask unicode Feb 10 19:11:03 ask info coreutils 'printf invocation' Feb 10 19:11:27 >>Unicode characters in the ranges U+0000...U+009F, U+D800...U+DFFF cannot be specified by this syntax, except for U+0024 ($), U+0040 (@), and U+0060 ()`.<< Feb 10 19:11:45 these 8bit chars must be printable somehow Feb 10 19:12:19 sure, printf '\x9e' Feb 10 19:12:43 I know that U+0022 and below are forbidden normally as they have some kind of function Feb 10 19:12:47 aha Feb 10 19:13:56 gives a blank char :/ Feb 10 19:14:34 (kind of function) that's what your xterm/whatever does on "rendering" the byte, printf anyway prints them as is, no matter what Feb 10 19:14:48 9E? Feb 10 19:14:55 yea Feb 10 19:15:05 gives me >>�<< Feb 10 19:15:13 thats a x slightly higher up in the air Feb 10 19:15:40 the center of X but the size of $ Feb 10 19:15:43 that's a rectangle on corner, with a ? inside, here Feb 10 19:15:56 s/$/x/g Feb 10 19:16:38 158 == 9E right? Feb 10 19:16:53 unless my math is bad right now Feb 10 19:18:09 yes Feb 10 19:18:31 k, should be the character im after then Feb 10 19:18:31 Unicode character U+009E is a control character named PRIVACY MESSAGE (PM) Feb 10 19:18:37 here's how it renders: ž Feb 10 19:18:42 halley:~ # echo $(( 0x9e )) Feb 10 19:18:43 oh Feb 10 19:18:44 158 Feb 10 19:18:45 on my machine that's a quare box with four hex digits Feb 10 19:18:48 *squar Feb 10 19:18:51 *square Feb 10 19:19:14 interesting Feb 10 19:19:18 so I doubt you want to enter it Feb 10 19:19:39 time for 12648430 ☕ Feb 10 19:20:00 In windows you get a strange x, much like the multiplicationsign ppl use Feb 10 19:20:01 ;-) Feb 10 19:20:34 (i have it in a password) :P Feb 10 19:20:41 more like the XXX in "triple X rated" Feb 10 19:20:53 might be Feb 10 19:21:04 you've seen it? Feb 10 19:21:12 seen what? Feb 10 19:21:22 the symbo im after Feb 10 19:21:31 no, I only got a square Feb 10 19:21:32 s/symbo/symbol/ Feb 10 19:21:37 empty sqaure Feb 10 19:21:38 hmm ok Feb 10 19:21:42 arvut: That would be Unicode character U+00D7. Feb 10 19:21:52 Also called "multiplication sign". Feb 10 19:22:00 I pasted the 0x9E symbol above Feb 10 19:22:11 (Though using that in a password sounds like a recipe for disasters and incompatibilities.) Feb 10 19:22:55 0x)E for "PRIVATE MESSAGE" makes some sense with passwords Feb 10 19:22:57 fizzie: i like using unicode whenever I can in pws Feb 10 19:23:02 0x9E Feb 10 19:23:12 ×? Feb 10 19:23:18 yeah!! Feb 10 19:23:21 thats it Feb 10 19:23:30 The multiplication sign is character 158 in the CP850 "western-europe" DOS codepage; or character 215 (0xd7) in Unicode, ISO-8859-1 or Windows-1252. Feb 10 19:23:31 that's NOT 0x9e Feb 10 19:23:35 how did you print that? Feb 10 19:23:38 that's U+00D7, like fizzie said Feb 10 19:23:47 aha Feb 10 19:23:57 printf \x7d Feb 10 19:24:04 that explains it, damn windows :P Feb 10 19:24:07 I'm on a linux laptop so in any GNOME app I can type ctrl+shift+u00D7, then release ctrl+shift and that character gets entered Feb 10 19:24:40 umm, actually not printf \x7d Feb 10 19:24:40 ah yes, now how to get it in maemo5 :P Feb 10 19:24:58 d7 dang Feb 10 19:24:59 DocScrutinizer: noticed that, prints blank space Feb 10 19:25:15 u00D7? Feb 10 19:26:26 Hi, I want to promote package slovak-l10n to Extras but I got: Can not continue promotion, because dependency package mp-fremantle-generic-pr is a user section package and needs to be promoted first! Feb 10 19:26:30 on a n900... I'd open vim and type ctrl-v u 00d7 Feb 10 19:26:36 It's also altgr-x in the new Finnish standard multilingual keymap, so I can ××× around with impunity with just a two-finger salute. (And I think in some earlier Finnish X.org keymaps too.) Feb 10 19:26:50 nice Feb 10 19:26:59 any idea, where is problem with maemo package interface? Feb 10 19:27:08 fizzie: neat Feb 10 19:27:14 mp-fremantle-generic-pr is un Nokia SSU repository Feb 10 19:27:26 »»»»»»» here Feb 10 19:27:36 (altgr-x) Feb 10 19:27:38 It'd be neat if that weren't probably the first time I actually had to type it. Feb 10 19:27:48 DocScrutinizer: same on my ubuntu laptop iirc Feb 10 19:28:12 I'm guessing your altgr-z does the « then. Feb 10 19:28:21 That seems a popular arrangement. Feb 10 19:28:27 ←←←←←← Feb 10 19:28:44 «««««« == altgr-y Feb 10 19:28:54 How... logical. Feb 10 19:29:06 sure, wertzu kbd here Feb 10 19:29:12 Ahhh. Feb 10 19:29:18 my y is where's your z Feb 10 19:29:38 Yes, should've said "the key to the left". Feb 10 19:30:01 anyway, folks. boozetime Feb 10 19:30:05 or Feb 10 19:30:08 time for 12648430 ☕ Feb 10 19:30:25 or ☕ with some booze in it Feb 10 19:30:41 o/ Feb 10 19:31:16 no, its time for 2.718281828459045235360747135266249... Feb 10 19:35:27 ugh Feb 10 19:35:56 http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2615/index.htm Feb 10 19:36:09 aka 0xC0FFEE Feb 10 19:36:28 printf '\u00D7' doesnt give me anything useful :( Feb 10 19:37:12 it's in forbidden range as well Feb 10 19:37:23 see ovedouble post ab Feb 10 19:37:26 errg Feb 10 19:37:35 meh Feb 10 19:37:35 see double post above Feb 10 19:48:32 WFM, even with bash's builtin "printf" (for bash 4.1, but not 4.2): $ printf '\u00D7\n' # => × Feb 10 19:48:51 (And with /usr/bin/printf for both.) Feb 10 19:49:20 Er, I mean, for 4.2, not 4.1. Feb 10 19:49:55 I see that 4.2 has also added \uHHHH and \UHHHHHHHH in the man page's list of escapades. Feb 10 20:01:30 how do I copy something from vim? ctrl+c doesnt seem to work Feb 10 20:18:56 N900? Feb 10 20:27:45 arvut: same way you do it in any other terminal app Feb 10 22:19:21 I still wonder how to teach xterm to use shift-ctrl-c for copy, and shift-ctrl-v for paste Feb 10 22:20:15 or is this already implemented and just a matter of unbinding the key combo from bash, so it would get forwarded to xterm? Feb 10 22:20:17 if it could be made to believe that shift-ctrl-c is shift-delete etc Feb 10 22:20:31 no, xterm gets it first, then passes on to bash Feb 10 22:20:45 I thought as much, yeah Feb 10 22:21:29 but wait! you say shift-delete is implemented in xterm? Feb 10 22:21:38 shift-insert Feb 10 22:22:28 btw on my desktop shit-ctrl-v works in Konsole Feb 10 22:23:00 no i'm just guessing Feb 10 22:23:08 because it's this ancient arcane shortcut Feb 10 22:23:15 actually not that old, dos Feb 10 22:23:37 yeah it doesn't work on my desktop ;P Feb 10 22:24:47 so you're using gnome I guess? ;-D Feb 10 22:42:45 xfce Feb 10 22:42:52 Fedora Core 10 ;P Feb 10 22:43:45 I booted liveUSB on my laptop of ubuntu and fedora current versions, and vomited. I'll have to gather up some strength to tackle upgrade at some point, Feb 10 23:21:32 DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! Feb 10 23:34:01 !seen infobot Feb 10 23:34:11 umm Feb 10 23:34:20 povbot: seen infobot Feb 10 23:34:23 DocScrutinizer: infobot was last seen in #maemo 12 minutes and 50 seconds ago: DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! Feb 10 23:41:50 ShadowJK: yeah, same here. Today I tried to swap friggin MX mouse for a non-broken replacement. The experience made me reconsider where to buy my next laptop Feb 10 23:43:39 I bought the crap a week ago there. Took them 20 min to come up with the info that they can swap for a new working mouse only if I bring the invoice plus ALL the rocks (mouse, kbd, CD, original package) of this friggin MX5500 Feb 10 23:44:51 made me wonder if for a laptop they'd require me to re-install wincrap before they would swap it if anything was utterly wrong within 4 days Feb 10 23:48:01 btw eems we lost ~10% users here in this chan during the last few days :-o Feb 10 23:48:39 almost down to #meego user counts Feb 10 23:48:43 @Doc: that's because people like to hang around on tmo more, for some reason Feb 10 23:48:55 EEEEEK Feb 10 23:49:02 the world's about to end Feb 10 23:49:07 although, we're not getting to #meego level user activity Feb 10 23:49:20 I hope so :-D Feb 10 23:50:49 on a side note, i tried using compcache again, with 120512KB disk size Feb 10 23:50:55 it ran funderfully Feb 10 23:51:03 until the swap space was filled Feb 10 23:51:25 at that point, it was a nightmare Feb 10 23:52:15 i'm guessing only certain apps should be allowed to swap out into compcache Feb 10 23:53:00 preferably, everything hildon and the dialer. user apps can go swap in slow emmc/sd. Feb 10 23:53:56 how this can be done without serious LD_PRELOAD abuse is beyond me Feb 10 23:55:39 basicaly my take on that is: optimize crappy hoggy apps Feb 10 23:56:41 hell, I ran full featured KDE incl openoffice on machines with less ram and slower CPU Feb 10 23:58:00 by that, you mean move away from qt into gtk for fremantle apps, because gtk is native, and qt isn't Feb 10 23:58:06 though I admit upgrading my desktop P-II300 from 256 to 496MB RAM made a hellufalot of difference Feb 10 23:59:26 using qt doubles the amount of toolkits in memory. seriously, pick just one, guise. Feb 10 23:59:32 and startup times for OOo on that panasonic toughbook with 300MHz CPU and just 192MB RAM were not for the nervous Feb 11 00:00:28 LO starts pretty fast on the N900, if your easy-debian partition isn't on the eMMC. Feb 11 00:00:58 then otoh I don't plan to use OOo on N900, and wth needs dialer or contacts or whatever even more RAM than OOo? Feb 11 00:03:01 there's still something *very* fishy with uSD. A few days ago I tried to cp a few tens of k of files to the device via ass rage mode, total size ~1.5GB, it was slooow like molasses Feb 11 00:03:18 would've taken hours to complete Feb 11 00:03:51 so filling a 32G card would take days, via wincrap file explorer Feb 11 00:05:10 this can't be normal Feb 11 00:05:50 esp since load applet neither showed any remarkable CPU load on N900, nor any concerning swap filling Feb 11 00:09:06 this whole thing still is so extremely odd, and seems nobody has investigated to the gory details yet Feb 11 00:10:45 My "vomited" comment was actually about how ubuntu/fedora looks today, not about the hardware it was running on :P Feb 11 00:11:45 gathered as much. Nevertheless it made me aware of installing recent distro session awaiting me for new laptop Feb 11 00:12:17 hehe Feb 11 00:12:20 and hell, I'm not happy about that perspective Feb 11 00:12:32 I think I settled on fedora kde Feb 11 00:12:39 or maybe it was kubuntu, I forget. Feb 11 00:12:47 esp since after ~10 years a completely new fresh ~/ is due Feb 11 00:13:00 where "settled on" means that it's the distro on liveusb I carry with me for fixing people's broken windows computers Feb 11 00:13:44 a friend's Amilo refuses to boot from USB stick :-/ Feb 11 00:14:02 How does compcache work when it gets full? Does it work like another level or LRU between RAM and real swap? Feb 11 00:14:08 she asked me to build a 'save Os' for her Feb 11 00:14:31 Or is it more like a swap space with higher priority than the real swap? Feb 11 00:15:03 and wtf is "ass rage" mode? Feb 11 00:15:07 afaik maemo doesn't support swap prio Feb 11 00:15:23 mASS stoRAGE MODE Feb 11 00:15:29 busybox "swapon" doesn't Feb 11 00:15:37 kernel does Feb 11 00:15:42 mhm Feb 11 00:15:48 ~messybox Feb 11 00:15:49 messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils Feb 11 00:15:56 ...and not even that Feb 11 00:16:01 I had already compiled swapon during chinook days, and just scp'd the binary to my N900 first week I had it Feb 11 00:16:45 chinook, dang! Feb 11 00:16:47 Regardless, the default behaviour is that new swap areas that you add appear at lower priorities relative to existing :P Feb 11 00:17:14 umm they do? Feb 11 00:17:31 yeah Feb 11 00:17:33 or at higher Feb 11 00:17:34 * DocScrutinizer snorts Feb 11 00:17:34 I forget Feb 11 00:17:40 but they don't end up equal Feb 11 00:17:55 now that's a 'nice' feature Feb 11 00:18:02 ~hail messybox Feb 11 00:18:03 * infobot bows down to messybox and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" Feb 11 00:18:15 normal swapon has same behaviour Feb 11 00:18:27 If you don't specify priority, it picks current-1 Feb 11 00:18:36 might be a kernel feature actually Feb 11 00:19:06 whatever, with messybox you'd never even know Feb 11 00:19:29 cat /proc/swaps Feb 11 00:19:32 or is there some /proc node to learn about current prio of swap? Feb 11 00:19:38 ;-D Feb 11 00:20:00 My first linux experience was on a single-floppy distro that had replaced most basic utilities with simple shell scripts ;P Feb 11 00:20:13 LOL Feb 11 00:20:14 so my baseline is to poke /proc manually :D Feb 11 00:20:19 minix?` Feb 11 00:20:23 tomsrtbt Feb 11 00:20:42 grblsxtrxwtf?!## Feb 11 00:20:45 isn't minix Tanenbaum's educational unix? Feb 11 00:20:51 yep Feb 11 00:21:40 tomsrtbt is so old, that it lists tucows as a mirror. When did tucows die btw? Feb 11 00:22:15 hard to remember what tucows actualy was ;-D Feb 11 00:22:28 This software download site in the 90s Feb 11 00:22:55 full of "shareware" software Feb 11 00:22:59 my muscle memory seems to remember typing the word some time back Feb 11 00:23:22 It'd be the place where you downloaded netscape 2.0 Gold from Feb 11 00:23:23 probably on Amiga1000 Feb 11 00:23:43 maybe not though Feb 11 00:24:02 IIRC my Amiga had no *real* internet ever Feb 11 00:24:16 Yeah mine didn't Feb 11 00:24:31 I only had fred fish mail order :P Feb 11 00:24:43 fishdisks \o/ Feb 11 00:25:38 dang those were the times, where your computer made you *meet* friends Feb 11 00:25:46 in RL Feb 11 00:26:21 once a week, for a fishdisk copy party Feb 11 00:27:11 with a second external floppy drive this was real fun Feb 11 00:27:41 Here it didn't mean meetings Feb 11 00:27:49 distances too large between computer users :P Feb 11 00:27:56 I modded the drive with a manual "external" write protect switch, and a write indicator 2color LED Feb 11 00:28:37 only 5km to next amiga user here, back when Feb 11 00:28:42 did however result in snailmail fish disk copying Feb 11 00:28:54 and snailmail attempts at obtaining blank floppies Feb 11 00:29:05 there was always a shortage of floppies Feb 11 00:29:13 do you remember that awesome though never coming true VHS tape storage project? Feb 11 00:29:18 lol Feb 11 00:29:23 and bubble mmeory Feb 11 00:30:43 I remember this one time one of my contacts managed to source 10 floppies for me Feb 11 00:30:47 they offered to ship the coder hw with a VHS holding several HUNDRED MB of shareware, WTF! Feb 11 00:31:04 it seemed like a storage amount that'd last a few years at the time :P Feb 11 00:31:17 yeah Feb 11 00:31:31 then 4 of them turned out to be bad :( Feb 11 00:31:39 ouch Feb 11 00:32:34 It's kind of amazing that despite the flooding in thailand, you'd still and are still able to just go out and buy a harddrive from wherever Feb 11 00:32:46 at a higher price, sure, but it's not like it's impossible to get Feb 11 00:32:56 i've been salvaging hard drives from old machines as of late Feb 11 00:33:16 going to junk shops, taking RAM and HDD Feb 11 00:33:26 prices of HDDs here are up 150% Feb 11 00:33:45 that's not so bad Feb 11 00:33:51 uhh, they're now 150% of old price, not 150% higher ;) Feb 11 00:33:55 In my brain I was assuming 300% Feb 11 00:33:59 I'm off for some booze now, as that'S what I planned to do since I came home from that friggin windoze daywork 6h ago Feb 11 00:34:46 I had my reset bottle a while ago :) Pissed off getting criticized at work for actually improving efficiency and increasing productivity Feb 11 00:34:53 apparently it makes other people look lazy. Feb 11 00:35:00 So it's a bad thing to do. Feb 11 00:35:18 yeah :-(((( Feb 11 00:35:25 been there, felt that Feb 11 00:36:10 welcome to upper management Feb 11 00:36:20 "no, you're not supposed to write a shellscript to do that ever-same editing job week for week" Feb 11 00:37:01 meanwhile I think "meh, I'll write it anyway, I'll just not tell YOU :-P" Feb 11 00:37:11 hah Feb 11 00:38:34 don't forget the proper sleep commands in the loops, so the job is no faster than you were, just running unattencded ;-P Feb 11 00:40:39 Luckily when I was at that point, replacing manual work with shell script, the output was to be delivered as 5000 sheets of paper Feb 11 00:41:00 so it was enough if I looked busy for half a year. Feb 11 00:41:01 actually a poor joke, I was suposed to copy the length in milliseconds for a few hundred audio samples from a excel sheet to a .c file into a structure Feb 11 00:41:35 soundboards? Feb 11 00:41:40 yep Feb 11 00:41:48 voice navi Feb 11 00:42:11 navi voice guidance Feb 11 00:42:19 why was that in an excel sheet to begin with.. Feb 11 00:43:14 because at the studio where they recorded the samples they used a excel sheet to write down the length of every sample Feb 11 00:44:22 "left" 377; "right" 418; "turn" 321; Feb 11 00:45:03 those durations were *hardcoded* in the guidance sw then (!!) Feb 11 00:45:20 by me... Feb 11 00:45:31 every week again Feb 11 00:46:03 sometimes just for one language, sometimes for maybe 8 or 13 Feb 11 00:46:09 cat left turn in five hundred meters | audioplay Feb 11 00:46:28 :nod: Feb 11 00:46:41 but someone had to make it difficult :P Feb 11 00:46:52 that seems like the wrong approach to do things. why not write up a func to play the wav, then just pass the words to be played as args? Feb 11 00:47:06 nah, they had one large chunk of audio, and played excerpts Feb 11 00:47:19 less padding in filesystem Feb 11 00:47:29 shocking Feb 11 00:47:34 so the milliseconds described where in the huge file the desired phrase was? :) Feb 11 00:47:42 yep Feb 11 00:47:47 i assume they were using fat/fat32? Feb 11 00:47:57 prolly Feb 11 00:48:07 I know tomtom uses/used fat on ext on fat on ext on fat on ext Feb 11 00:48:10 or something like that Feb 11 00:48:37 I think this was even pre-tomtom Feb 11 00:48:52 last millenium Feb 11 00:48:53 Apparently they had a "user tries to upgrade firmware, then yanks SD card" usecase which they repeated 10 times and the requirement was that the device would sitll boot Feb 11 00:49:19 and the only thing that survived was some weird loop file on ext on fat thing.. Feb 11 00:49:40 haha Feb 11 00:50:13 well, on those devices I worked for they had CDs to upgrade Feb 11 00:50:44 must've been volvo or bmw :) Feb 11 00:50:51 and basically the CD was supposed to stay in that radio as long as you wanted to use navi Feb 11 00:51:20 Ah, in that case a big monolithic file has advantages in giving you predictable seek behaviour :) Feb 11 00:51:21 ShadowJK: I think they both used that Siemens/VDO stuff Feb 11 00:52:47 actually half a dozen of car manufs used it Feb 11 00:54:13 Alltogether all car owners I've talked to have hated it Feb 11 00:54:18 not because of features or whatever Feb 11 00:54:35 but because it costs a good 2000E to update maps each time :P Feb 11 00:54:49 yeah Feb 11 00:57:16 anyway the voice was the best I ever heard on any voice guidance Feb 11 00:58:28 samples recorded at some university for media and acoustics Feb 11 00:59:19 by a really internationally acknowledged professor and his tudents, with carefully selected native speakers Feb 11 01:00:49 It generally works well when the system is designed ground up for a specific language Feb 11 01:01:00 but then when it gets translated it usually falls apart in some ways Feb 11 01:02:13 yeah, the wicked differences between some of the languages this system supported were giving the narrator coders some headaches Feb 11 01:04:35 when suddenly you got no structure like "in , go " but rather sth like "please do " Feb 11 01:04:46 Yeah don't forget to account for all the sandhi effects at word boundaries ;P Feb 11 01:05:02 yep Feb 11 01:06:01 I know (or knew) each friggin nasty detail of that topic :-D Feb 11 01:08:40 lol Feb 11 01:08:48 Linguists hardly know Feb 11 01:09:44 well, I knew as much as I reasonably could know Feb 11 01:10:17 the prof gave me a day crashcourse Feb 11 01:11:00 on a level starting where publicly available knowledge ended **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Feb 11 02:59:57 2012