**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Feb 25 02:59:59 2012
Feb 25 04:14:11 <b1ackdeath> B/filter add jpk * irc_join,irc_part,irc_quit *
Feb 25 04:15:28 * b1ackdeath needs to learn to type
Feb 25 11:01:53 <aparaatti> hi, I just learned to connect with vnc to my n9... wonder if I can somehow hide the virtual keyboard in terminal?
Feb 25 11:05:51 <aparaatti> also is there some kind of sensible key bindings for handling the UI from pc....
Feb 25 11:07:38 <aparaatti> oh, I can just ssh to the phone :)
Feb 25 11:11:03 <aparaatti> is get permission denied, anyone help?
Feb 25 11:29:01 <Meizirkki> infobot, Y U R BOT?
Feb 25 11:29:14 <Meizirkki> I IZ NOT
Feb 25 20:23:37 <dimir> EHLO
Feb 25 20:25:24 <dimir> I have pr 1.2 on my n900. libqt4-core installed is 4.6.2 . In the App Manager there are no updates. When I run "apt-cache show policy libqt4-core" I see 4.7.0 available. Do you know why I can't get that 4.7.0 using an App Manager?
Feb 25 20:26:14 <Sicelo> i'd first wonder why you're on PR1.2
Feb 25 20:26:31 <dimir> How easy is to update to 1.3?
Feb 25 20:26:38 <dimir> Just set it in the catalogue?
Feb 25 20:27:05 <Sicelo> very easy.. i did it within hours of buying my N900 (which came with PR1.1)
Feb 25 20:27:09 <dimir> Damn, seems I have some dependency problems. This is why no update in the app manager.
Feb 25 20:27:23 <dimir> Sicelo: so, how?
Feb 25 20:27:34 <Sicelo> yes, you can update OTA. i find that flashing is quickest though
Feb 25 20:27:41 <Sicelo> ~flashing
Feb 25 20:27:41 <infobot> maemo-flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Feb 25 20:28:00 <dimir> Sicelo: OTA == ?
Feb 25 20:28:32 <dimir> Sicelo: can I do the flashing through usb cable?
Feb 25 20:28:45 <dimir> Sicelo: I guess I should rtfm. :-D
Feb 25 20:28:56 <Sicelo> OTA is updating via Application Manager (OTA = Over The Air)
Feb 25 20:29:06 <Sicelo> and yes, you flash through cable..
Feb 25 20:29:34 <Sicelo> and read that page from infobot. flashing is easy, but there are a few caveats :P
Feb 25 20:30:23 <Sicelo> if you prefer OTA, check this one out, http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU
Feb 25 20:48:07 <dimir> thanks Sicelo!
Feb 25 20:48:23 <dimir> Sicelo: I guess the caveats you mean is bricking the device? :-D
Feb 25 20:49:57 <Sicelo> nope. quite a difficult task to brick it :)
Feb 25 20:50:29 <Sicelo> caveat is a non-stop "Suitable USB device not found .... Waiting" 
Feb 25 20:52:10 <dimir> Ah.
Feb 25 20:52:28 <dimir> I have messed up dependencies, so I guess the flashing is preferred?
Feb 25 20:52:43 <dimir> OTA would mean adding a fremantle-1.3 catalog?
Feb 25 20:53:16 <merlin1991> dimir: yes flashing is preferred
Feb 25 20:53:23 <merlin1991> and no OTA would mean you do have to just use ham, and it should work by iself
Feb 25 20:53:24 <Sicelo> you can use OTA as well.. but flashing is quicker, and you're 100% sure it will work
Feb 25 20:53:48 <dimir> right, thanks guys, I'll try flashing.
Feb 25 20:54:47 <Sicelo> just read the  page and understand it, especially if you're not using Linux
Feb 25 20:57:38 <dimir> I am.
Feb 25 20:57:54 <dimir> Dang, that tutorial on youtube has no audio and the text is so small.
Feb 25 20:58:21 <dimir> Flashing won't touch my /home/user data, right?
Feb 25 20:59:56 <guylhem_> hello
Feb 25 21:00:14 <dimir> oh man
Feb 25 21:00:23 <dimir> I guess I'm only interested in flashing rootfs.
Feb 25 21:00:29 <dimir> Not emmc.
Feb 25 21:01:13 <merlin1991> dimir: falshing emmc touches everything
Feb 25 21:01:30 <merlin1991> flashing rootfs leaves your /home/user and /home/user/Mydocs alone
Feb 25 21:01:48 <merlin1991> you'll only have to reinstall already installed apps
Feb 25 21:02:02 <dimir> merlin1991: right.
Feb 25 21:08:14 <dimir> I made a backup first time in my life. :-D
Feb 25 21:41:35 <guylhem_> which files should I manually edit to restore the default theme? The theme I tried to tweak is very slow. With the gui I tried to select the default theme but it didn't help on the slowness problems  
Feb 25 22:04:53 <definity> hey, any abody around who has a N900
Feb 25 22:08:21 <arvut> mooogadooogadooooo!
Feb 25 22:08:35 <arvut> physics is so much fun
Feb 25 22:46:09 <definity> hello?
Feb 25 22:46:52 <NIN101> definity: yes, plenty of us, just ask your question, and somebody might help.
Feb 25 22:48:39 <definity> Thx, well i have a N900 i am using the inbuilt Media player to connect to my windows media player which i have manedged to get working i can browes through the movies and songs but when ever i go to play one it just constantly says connecting and never connect, any ideas on how to fix the problem?
Feb 25 22:59:50 <dimir> Sicelo, merlin1991: oh man, it went smoothly! I've flashed rootfs and all my settings are there! Thanks!
Feb 25 23:06:59 <DocScrutinizer> dimir: major caveat is "CHARGE YOUR BATTERY!!"
Feb 25 23:07:07 <dimir> Haha, not all the settings it seems. E. g. my mail accounts are gone. But that's not a problem. :-)
Feb 25 23:07:19 <dimir> DocScrutinizer: I see. :-)
Feb 25 23:08:24 <DocScrutinizer> dimir: and right, you shouldn't flash eMMC
Feb 25 23:08:40 <dimir> yep.
Feb 25 23:09:10 <DocScrutinizer> actually your mail accounts shouldn't vanish either
Feb 25 23:09:23 <DocScrutinizer> dunno why they would be affected
Feb 25 23:09:27 <dimir> I have a backup. :-)
Feb 25 23:09:53 <dimir> Maybe I should try to restore. :-P
Feb 25 23:10:04 <dimir> I wasn't using a default theme either.
Feb 25 23:10:10 <DocScrutinizer> dimir: btw while you're at it, it's a optimal moment to consider jumping onto the CSSU train right now
Feb 25 23:10:29 <dimir> ~cssu
Feb 25 23:10:30 <infobot> [cssu] http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU
Feb 25 23:10:35 <DocScrutinizer> I'd suggest CSSU-Stable
Feb 25 23:11:21 <dimir> I see.
Feb 25 23:11:26 <dimir> Thanks for the info, will do!
Feb 25 23:11:36 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
Feb 25 23:11:59 <dimir> I wonder if I should check if GSM module works. :-D
Feb 25 23:12:14 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, why shouldn't it?
Feb 25 23:12:18 <dimir> BTW, were there any improvements on the GSM module in 1.3 regarding to 1.2?
Feb 25 23:12:25 <DocScrutinizer> well, yeah there were some incidents
Feb 25 23:12:39 <DocScrutinizer> nope
Feb 25 23:12:44 <dimir> ah, darn.
Feb 25 23:12:52 <dimir> So it's still sucky. :-D
Feb 25 23:13:39 <DocScrutinizer> but some users flashed - presumably - US version while GSM been on international version before, or vice versa. And that in rare cases caused problems
Feb 25 23:14:02 <DocScrutinizer> what's sucky with your GSM?
Feb 25 23:14:26 <DocScrutinizer> it works mostly fine here
Feb 25 23:14:52 <DocScrutinizer> in USA the problem is more fundamental with the poor GSM coverage
Feb 25 23:15:13 <DocScrutinizer> and the weird non-standard bands used for 3G
Feb 25 23:16:21 <DocScrutinizer> and probably a lot of other stuff in some of the 976some carriers that all invent their own flavour of GSM/UMTS network covering an area as large as 30km^2
Feb 25 23:17:00 <DocScrutinizer> USA is 3rd world regarding wireless
Feb 25 23:17:18 <DocScrutinizer> sorry dudes, you have to admit I'm right ;-P
Feb 25 23:17:57 <dimir> I'm in Eastern Europe. :-) The sucky bit is signal. It's weaker than any other devices wherever I go.
Feb 25 23:22:27 <Meizirkki> http://chzmemebase.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/memes-advice-dash-cooler.jpg
Feb 25 23:25:28 <DocScrutinizer> dimir: weaker by what metrics?
Feb 25 23:26:22 <DocScrutinizer> dimir: do your calls abort and/or you're not reachable while other devices work flawlessly *on _same_ band* in same location?
Feb 25 23:26:32 <dimir> DocScrutinizer: E. g. we go out of city, I have no signal, my friends have 30-40 %.
Feb 25 23:26:47 <DocScrutinizer> percent gauges are a lie
Feb 25 23:26:58 <dimir> DocScrutinizer: hehe ye but I can not make a call.
Feb 25 23:27:22 <dimir> DocScrutinizer: and if they call me I'm out of reach. Others with same provider can call/receive calls.
Feb 25 23:27:29 <DocScrutinizer> while your friend can make a call *using* *same* *carrier*?
Feb 25 23:27:37 <dimir> yep.
Feb 25 23:27:42 <dimir> For sure.
Feb 25 23:27:46 <DocScrutinizer> now that's strange
Feb 25 23:28:02 <dimir> I'm now thinking maybe it's the device.
Feb 25 23:28:11 <dimir> But let's see how it goes with pr1.3. :-)
Feb 25 23:28:11 <DocScrutinizer> I never found N900 has a particularly poor sensitivity
Feb 25 23:28:31 <DocScrutinizer> won't change anything
Feb 25 23:28:41 <dimir> Oh man, I have enabled CSSU-Stable and no updates? :-P
Feb 25 23:28:51 <DocScrutinizer> sensitivity didn't change with any of the modem FW updates
Feb 25 23:29:44 <dimir> I see.
Feb 25 23:29:48 <DocScrutinizer> some devices have hw problems with modem sensitivity or keeping connection/registration though
Feb 25 23:30:04 <dimir> Now that might be it.
Feb 25 23:30:13 <DocScrutinizer> most notorious case: SIM not detected
Feb 25 23:30:27 <dimir> Haven't had problems with that.
Feb 25 23:30:32 <DocScrutinizer> but of course there are other problems possible
Feb 25 23:31:09 <dimir> Well, it's rare case, I loose connection only if I'm in certain places where the signal is weak.
Feb 25 23:31:14 <DocScrutinizer> like poor sensitivity, due to either solderpoints, or chip deterioration, or simply a poor contact to antenna
Feb 25 23:31:19 <dimir> So I can live with that. :-)
Feb 25 23:32:10 <DocScrutinizer> what's your issue with CSSU now?
Feb 25 23:32:30 <dimir> DocScrutinizer: no issues, I have enabled it but I thought there will be updates. :-)
Feb 25 23:32:57 <dimir> Or wait...
Feb 25 23:33:05 <dimir> It's an app I should run.
Feb 25 23:33:05 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, I dunno if there are updates beyond what already gets installed when you install CSSU
Feb 25 23:33:07 <dimir> OMG.
Feb 25 23:33:16 <dimir> I ran it now.
Feb 25 23:33:34 <DocScrutinizer> please read that web page about CSSU carefully
Feb 25 23:33:44 <dimir> DocScrutinizer: OK. :-)
Feb 25 23:34:05 <dimir> wow, lots of updates now!
Feb 25 23:34:26 <dimir> libqtm stuff
Feb 25 23:34:52 <dimir> 27.7 MB
Feb 25 23:36:48 <dimir> Including CSSU stable update #2.1
Feb 25 23:37:13 <dimir> Hmm, reading that page is useful. :-D
Feb 26 00:26:03 <dimir> DocScrutinizer: is it OK to use CSSU + extras and + extras-devel?
Feb 26 00:26:59 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Feb 26 00:27:01 <DocScrutinizer> sure
Feb 26 00:28:18 <merlin1991> thought extras + extras-devel makes no sense
Feb 26 00:43:40 <dimir> oh, right
Feb 26 01:22:35 <DocScrutinizer> merlin1991: you're sure about that?
Feb 26 01:22:47 <merlin1991> 100% sure
Feb 26 01:23:17 <DocScrutinizer> I'dthink you could find packages in extras that are not available thru extras-devel
Feb 26 01:23:30 <merlin1991> that have to be very very rare cases
Feb 26 01:23:50 <merlin1991> since the promotion proces is upload-> devel, dev promote -> testing, voting -> extras
Feb 26 01:24:04 <DocScrutinizer> well, all those cases where Nokia added stuff to extras, either directly or on behalf of 2nd source
Feb 26 01:24:24 * merlin1991 doesn't know a single package that's missing in devel though
Feb 26 01:24:52 <merlin1991> I've been running with -devel only ever since I enabled -devel
Feb 26 01:25:04 <merlin1991> and so far found no package that was missing
Feb 26 01:25:47 <DocScrutinizer> how would you find missing packages - I'd say the most significant property of a missing pkg is that you can't find it
Feb 26 01:26:38 <merlin1991> well if you expect something to be there but it isn't then you've found a missing package :D
Feb 26 01:26:58 <merlin1991> thought you're right, that I possibly have missed packages where I didn't find the info outside apt-cache
Feb 26 01:27:21 <merlin1991> s/thought/though
Feb 26 01:27:48 <merlin1991> but in theory -devel should be a superset of extras
Feb 26 01:28:22 <DocScrutinizer> I'd bet all the pkg initially in extras were never in extras-devel, as Nokia placed them directly in extras
Feb 26 01:29:08 <DocScrutinizer> you'd expect apps like e.g. angrybords in devel?
Feb 26 01:29:17 <DocScrutinizer> birds even
Feb 26 01:29:19 <merlin1991> isn't it in ovi?
Feb 26 01:29:24 <merlin1991> and not in extras?
Feb 26 01:29:27 <DocScrutinizer> well, whatever
Feb 26 01:29:54 <DocScrutinizer> there's been quite a number of stuff in extras that probably didn't come thru devel
Feb 26 01:30:27 <merlin1991> quit possibly, though so far everything I needed has been in -devel as well
Feb 26 01:30:28 <DocScrutinizer> afaik extras existed even before devel was in place
Feb 26 01:30:45 <merlin1991> would be interesting to disect that a lil
Feb 26 01:30:56 <merlin1991> should be possible with apt *somehow*
Feb 26 01:31:20 <DocScrutinizer> and whatever, the recommended modus operandi is to enable devel only to install a particular pkg, then better immediately disable it again
Feb 26 01:32:12 <DocScrutinizer> unless you want to find constant breakage of all your apps by bleeding edge "updates" that get bugfixed just a day later... or not.
Feb 26 01:32:24 <merlin1991> on the other hand the recommended modus operandi is to enable -devel only "if you know what you do"
Feb 26 01:32:42 <merlin1991> which implies enough knowledge to run -devel 24/7 imo
Feb 26 01:33:02 <merlin1991> and I also heaven't experienced said breakage of everything yet
Feb 26 01:33:17 <DocScrutinizer> the problem is knowing what you do will not cure the impact of others contributing to devel while they don't know exactly what they do
Feb 26 01:33:35 <merlin1991> that's the reason why I don't blindly upgrade packages
Feb 26 01:34:05 <merlin1991> I actually check what changes are included in an upgrade before I do so
Feb 26 01:34:16 <DocScrutinizer> btw with devel enabled, HAM takes like 6min30 to come up with a list
Feb 26 01:34:40 <merlin1991> not for me, but I have nothing else but devel cssu and nokia ssu enabled
Feb 26 01:35:16 <merlin1991> no testing, ovi, extras or 3rd party repos here
Feb 26 01:36:08 <DocScrutinizer> hmm yeah, testing is actually completely useless when you got devel enabled
Feb 26 01:36:29 <DocScrutinizer> ovi? what ovi?
Feb 26 01:36:41 <merlin1991> that silly repo that is there by default
Feb 26 01:37:27 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, I never had that I guess
Feb 26 01:38:19 <DocScrutinizer> I also doubt it's there "by default" - raher it's probably added to catalog list whenever you install sth from ovi
Feb 26 01:38:34 <merlin1991> oh it is there
Feb 26 01:39:12 <merlin1991> check /etc/hildon-application-manager/catalogues (or similar, no n900 here atm) it is there as "system catalouge" without even an url because it's inbuilt to ham
Feb 26 01:39:25 <DocScrutinizer> maybe then I just puked a little, then selected "delete"
Feb 26 01:39:34 <DocScrutinizer> and can'T recall anymore that I did
Feb 26 01:39:53 <merlin1991> which you could have only done by editing the file because the delete button is disabled in ham for the "system" repos
Feb 26 01:40:17 * DocScrutinizer shrugs
Feb 26 01:40:37 <DocScrutinizer> NFC
Feb 26 01:41:40 <merlin1991> btw what do you think about including harmattan qml components in the cssu to ease backporting of harm apps?
Feb 26 01:41:50 <DocScrutinizer> actually I rarely ever care about those friggin catalogs anymore
Feb 26 01:42:41 <DocScrutinizer> UERGH, there it is ... "OVI"
Feb 26 01:43:08 <merlin1991> :D
Feb 26 01:43:16 <DocScrutinizer> a nice example of freudian selective perception
Feb 26 01:44:03 <DocScrutinizer> I'm rather amazed you got no developer tools repo in your list
Feb 26 01:45:15 <DocScrutinizer> I even have a SDK repo here, though deactivated
Feb 26 01:45:28 <merlin1991> I've got my scratchbox for that stuff ;)
Feb 26 01:45:37 <DocScrutinizer> hmm
Feb 26 02:09:40 <DocScrutinizer> hmm I thought it will take a little until I feel like answering your question regarding QML. I didn't expect it to take that long though - I still dunno what's my notion regarding that
Feb 26 02:10:58 <DocScrutinizer> maybe my first approach would be to ask if there's any such app that exists in HARM but not in fremantle, that's worth backporting at all
Feb 26 02:11:45 <DocScrutinizer> and if so, I'm not sure I wanna know about it, as I probably had to frown about it
Feb 26 02:12:44 <DocScrutinizer> the original idea was we get a concept working the other way round
Feb 26 02:13:01 <DocScrutinizer> and I hate QML
Feb 26 02:14:58 <DocScrutinizer> and tbh I doubt porting apps from HARM to fremantle is a simple task, esp since HARM is so incredibly FUBAR when it comes to arbitrary standard *nix way to do random things
Feb 26 02:17:44 <DocScrutinizer> better don't ask me. In the end somebody will do it anyway, so why should I suffer a headache to find out if I hate it deeply or just a little
Feb 26 02:19:07 <DocScrutinizer> if however that means we need to include that crap to CSSU, I really start to feel pain about it all
Feb 26 02:21:16 <DocScrutinizer> it would break compatibility of CSSU, in a way that makes CSSU a fork of stock PR rather than a update that fixes things
Feb 26 02:21:42 <DocScrutinizer> there would be apps that depend on CSSU, which is definitely not a good thing
Feb 26 02:23:19 <DocScrutinizer> at least when those apps are not tools for CSSU but actually any random app that isn't related to CSSU other than it depends on functions that are not in stock
Feb 26 02:24:04 <DocScrutinizer> here should those apps live? which repo?
Feb 26 02:24:35 <DocScrutinizer> would CSSU team provide a matching SDK for this new class of apps?
Feb 26 02:24:53 <DocScrutinizer> nonononono
Feb 26 02:24:59 <DocScrutinizer> no good idea
Feb 26 02:26:33 <DocScrutinizer> once we got apps that depend on CSSU, next step will be tweaks to standard Hildon GUI to mazch any special need of those QML apps
Feb 26 02:27:53 <DocScrutinizer> and why exactly are we doing that now? to *ease* the backporting? no way!
Feb 26 02:28:18 <DocScrutinizer> if somebody wants to backport his app, he wants to use Hildon, not QML
Feb 26 02:30:51 <DocScrutinizer> maybe somebody wants to come up with a QMLRunner wrapper app that works like a browser for QML apps, like a shell
Feb 26 02:31:30 <DocScrutinizer> this QMLRunner app can ship via usual extras-* deployment chain, no need for any special treatment in CSSU
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Feb 26 02:59:59 2012