**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri May 11 02:59:59 2012
May 11 03:39:32 <Estel_> hey Maemo. What You would recommend as solution for hassle-free file (not only between vfats) transfer metod between 2 N900's, without any other device in between?
May 11 03:40:06 <Estel_> most prefferably, something easier than scp over ad-hoc - I'm thinking about solution for my mother's N900
May 11 03:40:46 <Estel_> it doesn't need to be foolproof, but not overly complicated. As last resort, I may write sh scripts to ease more complicated solutions
May 11 03:40:57 <Estel_> and gui in future + upload to -devel :P
May 11 03:41:38 <Estel_> both N900's are running kernel-power, CSSU Testing, busybox power, of course root access
May 11 03:53:55 <Hurrian> Estel_, bluetooth?
May 11 03:54:13 <Estel_> thought about that, but, how? pairing, then what?
May 11 03:54:14 <Hurrian> how big and how many files are we talking about?
May 11 03:54:30 <Hurrian> idk, software to automate the file transfer?
May 11 03:54:36 <Estel_> small files in custom locations (some from opt to opt or rootfs)
May 11 03:55:08 <Estel_> but, how to pair properly one N900 with another as file transfer? normally it pair as ad2p or handsfree
May 11 03:55:15 <Estel_> PAN and bluetooth networking?
May 11 03:55:36 <Hurrian> ehh, screw BT
May 11 03:55:56 <Estel_> ad-hoc as per se isn't bad, it's just that I can't remember any software for transfer after estabilishing network...
May 11 03:56:00 <Estel_> other than ssh and scp
May 11 03:56:24 <Estel_> under windows there is winscp, why don't we have something like that :P
May 11 03:56:43 <Hurrian> Estel_, make SMB share on remote N900 then connect to that?
May 11 03:57:23 <Hurrian> then all you need is a GUI that makes it nicer
May 11 03:57:27 <Estel_> good idea. Quite overhead for mall file transfer - probably, like in XKCD comics connecting pendrive/swapping microSD is much faster... :P
May 11 03:57:34 <Estel_> but better than nothing
May 11 03:57:51 <Hurrian> meh, setup would be easier if we had NFC
May 11 03:58:02 <Estel_> no fuckin clue?
May 11 03:58:10 <Hurrian> hrh
May 11 03:58:11 <Hurrian> *heh
May 11 03:58:27 <Estel_> ah, near field communication, hate that :P
May 11 03:58:37 <Estel_> bluettooth is near enough :P
May 11 03:59:25 <Estel_> connection method isn't a problem, I may use wifi, bluetooth PAN, USB and hostmode...
May 11 03:59:50 <Estel_> the problem is easy file sharing after. Setting samba and witing sh for it sounds like too much hassle
May 11 04:00:01 <Estel_> after all, I can write scp scripts :P
May 11 04:00:07 <Hurrian> fileserver on adhoc?
May 11 04:00:11 <Estel_> so samba isn't needed for that.
May 11 04:00:21 <Estel_> fileserver using what?
May 11 04:01:00 <Hurrian> lighttpd/nginx/cherokee and a folder full of files
May 11 04:01:40 <Estel_> sounds like idea worth checking
May 11 04:01:46 <Estel_> thanks a lot!
May 11 04:02:10 <Hurrian> probably can make a nice GUI of it and browse from other devices too
May 11 04:02:23 <Hurrian> styling with css etc, but a simple directory is enough
May 11 04:08:18 <Estel_> yea... BTW, gui for scp would be also possible, but would require parsing ls output
May 11 04:08:28 <Estel_> it's probably what scp is doing anyway
May 11 04:08:37 <Estel_> winscp*
May 11 04:08:57 <Estel_> one session for scp, another one for ssh, ls and similar things
May 11 04:12:13 * Kilroo has a sad
May 11 04:12:42 * pronto hands Kilroo a beer
May 11 04:28:52 <Hurrian> Estel_, http://goput.it/ujv.jpg
May 11 04:43:52 <Estel_> Hurrian,  thanks for schema
May 11 04:44:13 <Estel_> I think it's good idea, but, why do You think we need rails for 2nd battery?
May 11 04:44:34 <Estel_> dual battery is already assembled in a way, that "down" battery holds everything in place
May 11 04:45:20 <Estel_> of course it could be made to contain socket for 2nd regular battery without soldering them, but it's much hassle + unhealthy for battery
May 11 04:45:29 <Estel_> they should be *never* separated
May 11 04:46:04 <Estel_> paralleled batteries shouldn't have any charge differencies. You can separate them only once, then, shouldn't be put together again
May 11 04:50:38 <Hurrian> ah, so that's the danger people at TMO were talking about
May 11 04:52:11 <Hurrian> i guess it would be impractical to make the charging PCB load-balance the two batteries - would be too expensive
May 11 04:55:48 <Hurrian> as in, when new battery is inserted, PCB first checks new battery current, if it is lower then it switches only when the first battery reaches same or lower current, if it is higher, it switches supply to the new battery, this will of course need capacitors to do
May 11 04:56:05 <Hurrian> it would also confuse the hell out of BME
May 11 04:57:24 <Hurrian> theoretically, this would also allow you to charge up a flat internal battery using the secondary battery
May 11 04:57:53 <Hurrian> (or use the second battery while the first is flat)
May 11 04:58:59 <Hurrian> and the rails were for holding the internal battery down while there is no second battery and to make it easier to switch batteries in the field
May 11 04:59:14 <Hurrian> unlock the latch and shake it out, i guess
May 11 05:22:02 <Estel_> springs are enough to hold single battery, You can tighteen them if becoming too lose
May 11 05:22:06 <Estel_> loose*
May 11 05:22:14 <Estel_> as for load balancing it's a no-go
May 11 05:22:32 <Estel_> You would require lotta hell of components, basically, full-fledged lipo charger inside
May 11 05:22:52 <Estel_> I got idea for hotswap mod but it's working differently, and for sure it's thing for future, not now
May 11 05:23:15 <Estel_> also, using w parallel cells, instead of 2 batteries going one after another, give You additional benefit
May 11 05:23:37 <Estel_> capacity isn't constant value - it's relative, i.e. the higher current draw from cell, the lower capacity
May 11 05:23:57 <Estel_> so, using 2 cells approach, current draw is only 50% per cell
May 11 05:24:10 <Estel_> = every cell relative capacity is higher
May 11 05:24:12 <Hurrian> ah.
May 11 05:24:33 <Estel_> for example, using 3000 mAh battery, my measurements in-device show 3090 mAh
May 11 05:24:39 <Estel_> not much more, but always
May 11 05:24:56 <Estel_> + lower current draw also make them live longer
May 11 05:25:22 <Estel_> it's much more feasible to do easy dual-battery mod, than to design something like that for inside cover
May 11 05:25:22 <Hurrian> hotswap is a no-no for now, then.
May 11 05:25:34 <Estel_> I got other idea for hotswap
May 11 05:26:01 <Estel_> mechanical 2 positional switch, that, during position change, parallel batteries for only fraction of second
May 11 05:26:22 <Hurrian> iirc there's an iphone accessory to charge phone using regular charger port and external battery to supply power
May 11 05:26:29 <Estel_> enough to keep device alive, but too small to hurt batteries due to paralleling 2 with different state of charge
May 11 05:26:39 <Hurrian> ah
May 11 05:26:51 <Estel_> heh, bundles for charging batteries externally are very common for all types
May 11 05:26:54 <Estel_> of devices
May 11 05:27:02 <Estel_> it's super easy to do Yourself too
May 11 05:27:22 <Estel_> few things that change given battery input into ~5V
May 11 05:27:37 <Hurrian> was thinking, hooking external charging paraphernalia to testpad USB and back cover
May 11 05:27:42 <Estel_> some times, it also contain charging circuit
May 11 05:28:08 <Estel_> well, it's idea for charging without wear and tear for usb port
May 11 05:28:24 <Estel_> but, while usb via testpads have most protection elements...
May 11 05:28:31 <Estel_> +5V via testpads doesnt have fuse etc
May 11 05:28:35 <Hurrian> "external charging paraphernalia" being any power source that's 5V, such as a touchstone module or external battery module, where the battery can be several times larger than N900
May 11 05:28:44 <Estel_> it's possible to re-create protection on small pcb
May 11 05:29:14 <Estel_> yea, it's possible, but no need to hock them up solid
May 11 05:29:20 <Estel_> You can have just plug
May 11 05:29:26 <Estel_> to connect whatever You want
May 11 05:29:30 <Hurrian> yeah, probably they can simply latch on to something on the back cover
May 11 05:29:43 <Hurrian> similar to hot shoe on DSLR camera
May 11 05:29:56 <Estel_> BTW, phillips release 3000mAh battery on 18060 factor
May 11 05:30:05 <Estel_> = something like R6 battery
May 11 05:30:29 <Estel_> 2 of them aren't very thick, only a little bigger cover would allow putting them
May 11 05:30:38 <Estel_> =6000 mAh battery
May 11 05:31:10 <Hurrian> ...will need adaptor for N900 battery interface though
May 11 05:31:11 <Estel_> damn, it's pity that they don't release it as flat batteries :P well, cylyndrical are more cheap and popular for all sort of things
May 11 05:31:14 <Estel_> nope
May 11 05:31:22 <Estel_> 18060 is LiIon already
May 11 05:31:30 <Estel_> it's only R6 form factor
May 11 05:31:49 <Hurrian> no, i meant for plugging into the phone
May 11 05:32:00 <Hurrian> you'll need some way to put it in, aside from soldering
May 11 05:32:06 <Estel_> BTW, it's same type as used in most laptop batteries and such phillips ones are used in electro cars, lol
May 11 05:32:26 <Estel_> PCB with pins teared from any random battery :P
May 11 05:32:37 <Hurrian> i can see it already - 9 cell battery pack for N900
May 11 05:32:40 <Estel_> it's super easy to remove from any bl-5j
May 11 05:33:10 <Estel_> + You gain protection PCB and resistor for bme bundled in
May 11 05:33:29 <Estel_> just solder it to dual 3000 mah cells as done with dual bl-5j
May 11 05:33:39 <Estel_> well, we can start measure horse power :P
May 11 05:33:45 <Estel_> as said, same cells are used in cars
May 11 05:34:08 <Estel_> when they'll become little cheaper - now are overpriced - I'll surely buy two and check possibilities
May 11 05:34:28 <Hurrian> mmm.
May 11 05:34:29 <Estel_> 6000 mAh battery for N900 without much thicker cover than mugen is real overkill
May 11 05:34:40 <Estel_> only nanowires can beat that
May 11 05:35:14 <Estel_> (nanowire LiIon should have ~10 000mAh in single bl-5j size, but they're still far on horizon)
May 11 05:35:40 <Estel_> bTW I found way for gui file transfer
May 11 05:35:49 <Estel_> GrSync package
May 11 05:35:53 <Estel_> from repos
May 11 05:36:06 <Estel_> GUI for rsync both locally and via any network
May 11 05:36:11 <Hurrian> ah.
May 11 05:36:52 <Hurrian> btw, does the full body replacement include the plastic around keyboard?
May 11 05:37:02 <Hurrian> most replacement shells for the N900 (white ones) omit that
May 11 05:37:12 <Estel_> robably yes.
May 11 05:37:16 <Estel_> probably*
May 11 05:37:22 <Estel_> keyboard itself stays as is
May 11 05:37:36 <Estel_> same for whole screen part, it's metal already
May 11 05:37:37 <Hurrian> good to know. i'll be off for now, can't stay awake anymore.
May 11 05:37:45 <Estel_> see ya!
May 11 06:18:54 <LaoLang_cool> Is it possible to limit N900 to get charge only when battery percent is below 80%?
May 11 06:19:27 <LaoLang_cool> so when charging is up to 80%, the charge event will be ended
May 11 06:19:49 <LaoLang_cool> I heard that's the way to extend battery's life
May 11 12:32:55 * lardman tries a Siri clone on his Galaxy Tab and is stunned at how not very good it is in practise
May 11 12:34:26 <lardman> In large part due to poor connectivity, on-device speech decoding required
May 11 12:36:13 <SpeedEvil> :/
May 11 12:36:31 <SpeedEvil> I'm depressed that on-device speech recognition has almost died
May 11 12:37:50 <lardman> If I can summon the time I'd still like to test a Sphinx-based all-on-device version
May 11 12:39:44 <Hurrian|zzz> SpeedEvil, people used it?
May 11 12:39:59 <Hurrian> voice command was pretty bad on Symbian
May 11 12:40:38 <Hurrian> (on an unrelated note, text to speech for contact names was good on Symbian)
May 11 12:40:38 <lardman> was that using speech recog or performing correlations with known training phrases?
May 11 12:40:46 <Hurrian> training phrases, iirc
May 11 13:13:12 <chem|st> SpeedEvil: is siri online?
May 11 13:13:39 <lardman> chem|st: iPhone, but someone may have hacked together a way to use it online
May 11 13:14:04 <Hurrian> chem|st, siri on the iPhone does need an internet connection
May 11 13:14:07 <Hurrian> Apple cheats!
May 11 13:14:12 <chem|st> lardman: I mean is siri required to have network connections?
May 11 13:14:22 <chem|st> to work properly?
May 11 13:15:04 <Hurrian> it needs internet to work AT ALL.
May 11 13:15:11 <chem|st> FAIL!
May 11 13:15:18 <chem|st> lol
May 11 13:15:29 <Hurrian> feh, nobody uses it after the first few days of getting an iPhone
May 11 13:15:34 <chem|st> what about galaxy sIII?
May 11 13:16:06 <Hurrian> nobody knows, but from past voice control tech (and the one on SGS2), it's probably still crap
May 11 13:17:26 <lardman> chem|st: apparently the original was taken down, but here's the innards described: http://pastebin.com/k1qrQ7qw
May 11 13:17:36 <chem|st> Hurrian: the new samsung TVs suck big time afaik
May 11 13:19:27 <lardman> http://blog.anidear.com/2011/11/attempt-to-use-siri-on-ubuntu.html
May 11 13:21:10 <lardman> last one, a more easiy read breakdown of the hack
May 11 13:21:12 <lardman> http://memeburn.com/2011/11/the-ghost-in-the-machine-inside-siri/
May 11 13:22:48 <Hurrian> chem|st, the new samsung TVs?
May 11 13:23:14 <tgalal> can anyone get 'from QtMobility.SystemInfo import QSystemDeviceInfo' to not seg fault ?
May 11 13:23:20 <Hurrian> they're LED-backlit LCD panels that are barely half an inch thick, what kind of features are they putting into them?
May 11 13:23:27 <Hurrian> voice and gesture control?
May 11 13:25:23 <chem|st> Hurrian: exactly
May 11 13:25:45 <chem|st> the new builds ship with cameras and microphones build in
May 11 13:26:07 <Hurrian> ah. iirc they're using regular video cameras to do it, no surprise there. also, with a mic that far away from the user, there's deffo gonna be problems
May 11 13:26:53 <chem|st> things like 'hello, TV on' work...
May 11 13:27:15 <lardman> voice recog works while the TV's not making noise then :)
May 11 13:28:17 <lardman> though I guess it can perform noise cancellation on what it generates
May 11 13:28:24 <chem|st> we had a good laugh for facial recognition, if distributed preferences of channels get loaded automagically, dad crosses the tv while the kids watch a bedtime story the TV switches to some porn channel in dad's preference
May 11 13:28:55 <lardman> lol
May 11 13:29:40 <chem|st> or you walk in on some friends home, his wife watches some soap and the TV switches to porn the second you walk in the living room...
May 11 13:30:01 <Hurrian> ha
May 11 13:31:26 <chem|st> hitchhikers guide mentions radios you have to sit and stare at silent and without any movement or it will change channel, the end of usability 'gesture and voice control'
May 11 13:32:29 <chem|st> a galaxy S3 review mentions turning on or off wifi so it might work offline
May 11 13:42:31 <Jaffa> Apropros nothing - some people in the Maemo community really piss me off (and I don't mean DocScrutinizer ;-))
May 11 13:44:14 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: ??? :-o
May 11 13:44:21 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, usuk.
May 11 13:46:06 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: Don't worry. One of our current community "leaders"
May 11 13:46:37 <DocScrutinizer> ~wtf usuk
May 11 13:46:39 <infobot> Gee...  I don't know what usuk means... 
May 11 13:46:46 <DocScrutinizer> ~usuk
May 11 13:46:47 <infobot> hmm... usuk is you suck
May 11 13:46:54 <DocScrutinizer> uhuh
May 11 13:47:15 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: any actual reason for that statement?
May 11 13:47:35 <DocScrutinizer> like - a recent posting, or rant on IRC, or sth?
May 11 13:48:28 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: sorry when I lose track of all the morons, there's a lot of them in a lot of channels recently
May 11 13:48:54 <DocScrutinizer> amazingly parallel "development" in e.g maemo and openmoko
May 11 13:49:54 <DocScrutinizer> regarding "let's own the infra" for example. Or regarding the "who's 'the community' definition authority" wars
May 11 13:50:45 <chem|st> Jaffa: reference?
May 11 13:50:50 <chem|st> moo DocScrutinizer 
May 11 13:51:33 <DocScrutinizer> the most blatant contributors not always are those with the best common sense
May 11 13:51:36 <DocScrutinizer> moo chem|st 
May 11 13:51:40 <lardman> ~curse Wifi in my office
May 11 13:51:40 <infobot> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, Wifi in my office !
May 11 13:51:58 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: Don't forget the delay in shipping a new version of the hardware, and comedy changes of platform.
May 11 13:52:09 <chem|st> lardman: if I shut the door I am offline....
May 11 13:52:31 <lardman> chem|st: Faraday cage office?
May 11 13:52:47 <chem|st> is any of current councelors here?
May 11 13:52:59 <SpeedEvil> He's using IPOA. The pigeons need to get past.
May 11 13:53:03 <chem|st> lardman: thick wooden fireproof door
May 11 13:53:47 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, that plus steel armoured concrete makes a rather good Faraday cage
May 11 13:53:53 <chem|st> if anyone likes to drive me, I volunteer
May 11 13:54:04 <lardman> DocScrutinizer: don't forget the lead lining
May 11 13:54:13 <DocScrutinizer> :-D
May 11 13:54:29 <chem|st> only dry-walls indoors
May 11 13:54:48 <DocScrutinizer> o.O
May 11 13:55:15 <chem|st> lardman: analytical environment... we even have rooms they have 'active' field shielding
May 11 13:55:26 <DocScrutinizer> as long as they don't have those "hasengitter" type of steel mesh, I don't see how they can shield WLAN
May 11 13:55:46 <lardman> chem|st: and I was only half joking :)
May 11 13:56:10 <chem|st> lardman: consider your jokes real over here ;)
May 11 13:56:51 <Jaffa> chem|st: DocScrutinizer: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1204924&postcount=854
May 11 13:56:55 <chem|st> chickenwire applies to our service room...
May 11 13:57:07 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, seems Jaffa isn't inclined to elaborate on his discomfort
May 11 13:57:10 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: There is a difference between good shielding, and attenuating enough to make it not work
May 11 13:57:10 <lardman> My dodgy wifi is because my office is so high I get interference from tropospheric radio reflections, or something like that ;)
May 11 13:57:13 <Jaffa> chem|st: DocScrutinizer: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1205207#post1205207
May 11 13:57:17 <DocScrutinizer> aaah, or he does
May 11 13:57:24 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: Sorry, was busy writing a reply on TMO. Always a timesink
May 11 13:57:30 <BErepairedPC> hey all
May 11 13:57:35 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: But decided that facts are my friends ;-)
May 11 13:57:36 <DocScrutinizer> black hole
May 11 13:57:50 * lardman fears even opening TMO
May 11 13:58:12 <BErepairedPC> does pyradio still work on the n900?
May 11 13:58:23 <chem|st> BErepairedPC: o/
May 11 13:58:27 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, don't get sucked back into the vortex!
May 11 13:58:47 * Jaffa did. Regret it.
May 11 13:58:47 <chem|st> GeneralAntilles: you and me and one other should take over the regiment
May 11 13:59:04 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: I've got my life ring!
May 11 13:59:07 <chem|st> Jaffa: don't say we didn't tell!
May 11 13:59:12 <DocScrutinizer> *SIGH*
May 11 13:59:51 <chem|st> BErepairedPC: no idea, and for god sake leave alone python for good!
May 11 14:00:15 <lardman> chem|st: hey, I just installed Python on my Tab
May 11 14:00:28 * lardman wonders off to find khertan to help the fight back ;)
May 11 14:00:34 <lardman> s/wonders/wanders
May 11 14:01:21 <chem|st> gtg have a nice weekend o/
May 11 14:01:26 <lardman> you too
May 11 14:07:06 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: I already wrote off council election for this term again
May 11 14:08:17 * lardman wonders whether a council is what Maemo needs at this point
May 11 14:08:19 <DocScrutinizer> it seems to me like too much blood drain happened so no more real 'do'ers' are around to fill position of a community council
May 11 14:09:00 <DocScrutinizer> real "do'ers" willing to take the burden
May 11 14:09:46 <DocScrutinizer> and anyway 99.5% of wider community are not interested, most are not even aware of council anymore
May 11 14:09:56 <DocScrutinizer> (incl me, tbh)
May 11 14:10:39 <DocScrutinizer> a pity
May 11 14:11:20 <lardman> I didn't really hear much from the last council or two
May 11 14:11:44 <Jaffa> lardman: Both have been ineffectual
May 11 14:11:50 <DocScrutinizer> and obviously current/last term's council wasn't able to make council visible during last term, so how would they change that now during 2..4weeks of election 
May 11 14:12:24 * Jaffa almost considered running - but didn't fancy working with some of the other candidates
May 11 14:12:38 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: Indeed
May 11 14:13:33 <lardman> It would be interesting to hear what people see as the future for "Maemo"
May 11 14:13:35 <DocScrutinizer> I don't run as I'm sure I'm a terrible council member
May 11 14:13:49 <DocScrutinizer> and I don't like that sort of publicity
May 11 14:13:58 <GeneralAntilles> I'm picturing a yearly Burningman sort of event somewhere in the Sahara.
May 11 14:14:16 <lardman> couldn't be worse than GeneralAntilles, he couldn't even be bothered to turn up for the opening event ;)
May 11 14:14:22 <DocScrutinizer> "burning Elop"
May 11 14:14:36 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, pff. I didn't want to be seen on stage with you.
May 11 14:14:40 <lardman> lol
May 11 14:15:19 <lardman> it would be nice to meet in person for a real beer at some point though :)
May 11 14:15:28 <GeneralAntilles> Well build an Elop effigy out of Windows Phones.
May 11 14:15:34 <GeneralAntilles> Some day, some day.
May 11 14:15:37 <DocScrutinizer> \o/
May 11 14:16:09 <DocScrutinizer> that day will be my last day in life. With all the beers you all owe me ;-D
May 11 14:16:10 <GeneralAntilles> Then we'll get drunk and burn Elop in a wicker man.
May 11 14:23:21 <DocScrutinizer> It's depressing to state and realize this, but it's just like always been in man's history. If 90% of any community are getting uninterested and uninvolved, the remaining 10% which are usually extremists are taking over and rule the fate of community's future
May 11 14:24:09 <Hurrian> DocScrutinizer, hasn't the Maemo/OSSO team been kicked out of Nokia already?
May 11 14:25:31 <DocScrutinizer> sure
May 11 14:26:39 <jacekowski> well, no empire lasts forewer
May 11 14:26:41 <jacekowski> forever
May 11 14:32:49 <jean_brat> DocScrutinizer, Hi man
May 11 14:33:04 <DocScrutinizer> hi jean_brat 
May 11 14:33:29 <jean_brat> yesterday.. i did flash the mobile as per the instructions.
May 11 14:33:50 <jean_brat> falsher did work on my 64bit pinguy
May 11 14:34:04 <jean_brat> but the phone does not boot man
May 11 14:34:05 <DocScrutinizer> well, glad to hear that
May 11 14:34:09 <DocScrutinizer> ooh
May 11 14:34:30 <jean_brat> http://pastebin.com/F0r1s9xD
May 11 14:34:35 <jean_brat> here is a log file
May 11 14:34:40 <DocScrutinizer> then you didn't follow the instructions exactly
May 11 14:35:01 <jean_brat> nokia logo comes and the progress bar for few seconds and screen fades away..
May 11 14:35:09 <jean_brat> no LED no progress bar
May 11 14:35:10 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: DocScrutinizer: If someone says they'll do something and someone else says "I'll confirm the dates" - is person B entirely blameless when said action doesn't take place? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1205226#post1205226
May 11 14:35:28 <jean_brat> its completely inactive
May 11 14:35:45 <GeneralAntilles> Yes. Clearly you've grossly misinterpreted the facts, Jaffa.
May 11 14:35:51 <GeneralAntilles> You should probably apologize.
May 11 14:35:59 <GeneralAntilles> and I'm prescribing 50 lashings.
May 11 14:36:43 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: I read that as "50 hashtags" :-/
May 11 14:37:04 <DocScrutinizer> jean_brat: that's expected on first boot, it will take several minutes and you mustn't interrupt it
May 11 14:37:13 <jean_brat> i did flash emmc followed by combined and removed the battry and cable in the middle
May 11 14:37:35 <jean_brat> first one without -R and second one with -R
May 11 14:37:51 <DocScrutinizer> yes, sounds good
May 11 14:38:20 <DocScrutinizer> actually when your device showed jumping dots (progress indicator) it almost booted already
May 11 14:38:30 <jean_brat> i waited for 1 hour.. there is no LED light as well
May 11 14:38:47 <jean_brat> indicating it is doing something
May 11 14:39:56 <jean_brat> NOKIA LOGO followed by .... and screen fades away.. after few hours i press the power button again it does the same
May 11 14:39:57 <DocScrutinizer> yes, that's normal. You might want to eventually hook device to fastcharger, and you also may operate the lockswitch to activate the screen again
May 11 14:40:04 <tgalal> when using QML, is there a component similar to harmattan's Page and PageStackWindow, or is it just done by using rectangle components to define pages?
May 11 14:40:35 <DocScrutinizer> of course it shouldn't power down during first boot
May 11 14:41:25 <jean_brat> there is one wearied thing 
May 11 14:42:07 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: it's all complete nonsense. Council is the driving instance for elections. If anything hangs it's up to council to push, no matter what that pushing involves in particular case
May 11 14:42:29 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: Indeed.
May 11 14:42:32 <jean_brat> during the execution of that flashing script.. the menu bar keep indicating NOKIA ROM connected  / NOKIA rom disconnected/
May 11 14:43:30 <DocScrutinizer> jean_brat: you completely lost me
May 11 14:43:41 <DocScrutinizer> which flashing script?
May 11 14:43:45 <jean_brat> if actually the device is not recognised for some reason or disconnected script will terminate abnormally giving the error message rt?
May 11 14:44:08 <jean_brat> flasher 3.5
May 11 14:44:22 <DocScrutinizer> that's an executable, not a script
May 11 14:44:34 <DocScrutinizer> afaik, on linux
May 11 14:44:55 <DocScrutinizer> and I dunno which menu bar you're talking about
May 11 14:44:58 <jean_brat> ohh ok.. i thouh its bash or somthing
May 11 14:45:10 <DocScrutinizer> I gather you are running this stuff on a windows machine
May 11 14:45:44 <jean_brat> no DocScrutinizer 
May 11 14:46:10 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, prolly not. The pathnames have "/", not "\" ;-)
May 11 14:46:12 <jean_brat> i am running pinguy
May 11 14:46:54 <DocScrutinizer> jean_brat: I suggest you redo flashing: first COMBINED, then VANILLA, then COMBINED *again*
May 11 14:47:19 <DocScrutinizer> the boot up device as suggested in ~flashing
May 11 14:47:34 <jean_brat> hmm i did not tried this one.
May 11 14:47:45 <jean_brat> back to back without -R correct?
May 11 14:48:04 <DocScrutinizer> and let it sit and do it's optification thing. Just occasionally hit the screen to make it unlock, or even use lockslider switch for that
May 11 14:48:33 <DocScrutinizer> never use -R, it's a mere convenience thing replacement for manually powercycling the device
May 11 14:48:58 <DocScrutinizer> -R means 'reboot', after flashing done
May 11 14:49:06 <DocScrutinizer> not needed
May 11 14:49:12 <jean_brat> yes
May 11 14:49:16 <DocScrutinizer> you better do it manually
May 11 14:50:39 <jean_brat> does sim has to be inside while you flash?
May 11 14:50:55 <DocScrutinizer> I suggest to remove it
May 11 14:51:33 <DocScrutinizer> also probably any uSD is better removed, as it's not needed either
May 11 14:51:37 <jean_brat> ok lets do it again
May 11 14:51:48 * DocScrutinizer afk, RL calling
May 11 15:02:03 <jean_brat> DocScrutinizer, 3rd step is not working
May 11 15:02:17 <jean_brat> combined is not flashing
May 11 15:02:20 <jean_brat> USB device found found at bus 001, device address 006.
May 11 15:02:20 <jean_brat> Raw data transfer EP found at EP2.
May 11 15:02:20 <jean_brat> Using flashing protocol Mk II.
May 11 15:02:29 <jean_brat> and it quits
May 11 15:02:49 <DocScrutinizer> blacklist you rcdc_ether
May 11 15:02:57 <DocScrutinizer> err cdc_phonet
May 11 15:03:47 <DocScrutinizer> alternatively invoke rmmod cdc_phonet prior to each single flasher invocation, best do it twice actually
May 11 15:04:25 <DocScrutinizer> and regarding all this I suggest you do a "sudo su -" rtaher than running each command under sudo
May 11 15:04:59 <DocScrutinizer> halley:/etc/modprobe.d # rmmod cdc_phonet
May 11 15:05:00 <DocScrutinizer> ERROR: Module cdc_phonet does not exist in /proc/modules
May 11 15:05:05 <DocScrutinizer> is a *good* sign
May 11 15:05:37 <DocScrutinizer> lsmod|grep phonet
May 11 15:05:47 <DocScrutinizer> shuldn't show anything
May 11 15:09:02 <jean_brat> DocScrutinizer, same issue mate screen fades away.
May 11 15:10:01 <jean_brat> think i ran out of luck
May 11 15:11:54 <Hurrian> hmm, something's wrong here, then.
May 11 15:12:01 <Hurrian> is your battery fully charged?
May 11 15:12:46 <jean_brat> yes man.. it shows full in my 5800
May 11 15:13:10 <Hurrian> hmm.
May 11 15:13:27 <Hurrian> flash VANILLA (without the -R) at the end
May 11 15:13:31 <Hurrian> pull the battery.
May 11 15:13:50 <Hurrian> then connect it again in USB mode (holding U on startup then connect USB)
May 11 15:13:54 <Hurrian> then flash COMBINED
May 11 15:14:08 <Hurrian> pull the battery again and start the phone.
May 11 15:14:49 <Hurrian> i usually do my flashing not on linux - it does get messy because BINARY BLOB
May 11 15:27:53 <DocScrutinizer> jean_brat: screen fading is expected
May 11 15:28:02 <DocScrutinizer> I told you several times
May 11 15:28:49 <DocScrutinizer> toldya first boot takes several minutes, and you can re-activate screen with e.g. lockslider (two times, or three times)
May 11 15:29:00 <jean_brat> DocScrutinizer, even the unclocker will not bring the screen back on
May 11 15:29:16 <DocScrutinizer> best you open up kbd slider, then hit screen. It will light up again
May 11 15:30:15 <DocScrutinizer> double-check your VANILLA image, it shall be marked "latest" in right col of download page
May 11 15:30:32 <jean_brat> no mate..i tried that all
May 11 15:31:20 <jean_brat> Question.. when you finish the flasher and remove the cable (without R option) it will not reboot automatically correct?
May 11 15:45:42 <DocScrutinizer> probably not
May 11 15:46:13 <DocScrutinizer> but maybe i does, you'll see what it does anyway
May 11 15:48:24 <DocScrutinizer> jean_brat: it's absolutely madatory to take care about cdc_phonet kernel module on your PC
May 11 15:48:43 <DocScrutinizer> do "lsmod|grep phonet"
May 11 15:48:56 <DocScrutinizer> if that shows anything, you're in trouble
May 11 15:50:29 <DocScrutinizer> when best part of ~flashing been written, there's been no cdc_phonet kernel module by default on most distros
May 11 15:50:40 <DocScrutinizer> nowadays it's ubiquitary
May 11 15:52:14 <N3RVE> Quick question, is Maemo still being developed?
May 11 15:52:50 <ShadowJK> not by nokia since 2010
May 11 15:53:08 <DocScrutinizer> see
May 11 15:53:11 <DocScrutinizer> ~cssu
May 11 15:53:11 <infobot> i heard cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU
May 11 15:53:13 <DocScrutinizer> however
May 11 15:53:30 <N3RVE> so another group took over development?
May 11 15:54:00 <DocScrutinizer> well, it's not like any particular group developed "maemo" 
May 11 15:54:16 <N3RVE> I thought the maemo team joined forces with another company to begin Meego
May 11 15:54:34 <DocScrutinizer> the Nokia maemo team, yes
May 11 15:55:08 <DocScrutinizer> however maemo >> Nokia maemo team
May 11 15:55:43 <Raimu> Entirely OOT but very interesting: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/sq7cy/iama_a_malware_coder_and_botnet_operator_ama/
May 11 15:57:01 <DocScrutinizer> N3RVE: http://maemo.org/downloads/updated/Maemo5/25/
May 11 15:57:23 <SpeedEvil> N3RVE: The way linux development in the commercial space works is that companies occasionally make noises, or efforts to join up their activities. About 6 months to a year later, this explodes in a shower of new bits, and often companies starting their own groups.
May 11 15:58:01 <SpeedEvil> Limo/maemo/meego/meltmi/tizen/...
May 11 15:58:20 <DocScrutinizer> moblin
May 11 15:58:24 <SpeedEvil> I've forgotten what the intel one was called - going into meego
May 11 15:58:26 <SpeedEvil> ah - that
May 11 15:58:32 <jaska> tizen... isnt that html5only, so, worth ignoring i guess
May 11 15:58:46 <DocScrutinizer> kinda
May 11 16:00:12 <SpeedEvil> There are two aspects to sucky html5 things.
May 11 16:00:30 <SpeedEvil> First youhave the platform as delivered, which may or may not be interesting.
May 11 16:00:49 <SpeedEvil> Secondly, you have the hardware - which may or may not be usable to develop other things.
May 11 16:05:24 <N3RVE> Thank you SpeedEvil and DocScrutinizer for clearing that up :)
May 11 16:14:06 <Raimu> Heh, Windows Phone 7 closes socketed connections if you switch apps in the meantime. So much for running IRC.
May 11 16:14:13 <Raimu> What a disgrace.
May 11 16:18:54 <ShadowJK> how do you make a shoutcast player like that
May 11 16:20:12 <Raimu> Your guess is as good as mine.
May 11 16:24:53 <DocScrutinizer> that's how all that crap works
May 11 16:25:12 <DocScrutinizer> not to say that'S the difference to maemo
May 11 16:26:33 <DocScrutinizer> on maemo the app devel is responsible to care about resource management and savings, on android, iOS, winp7 the OS "is doing that for you"
May 11 16:28:14 <teotwaki> !ping
May 11 16:28:21 <teotwaki> ~ping
May 11 16:28:22 <infobot> ~pong
May 11 18:59:16 <Sicelo>  /win 25
May 11 19:52:30 <Darkchaos> Is there anybody with some nitdroid knowledge? It always shows the android boot screen (infinite loop) and in an older version it showed something like set_suspend_state wakeup (3 of 3) unsucessfully etc. In the nitdroid channel nobody is active.
May 11 19:52:47 <Darkchaos> Nitdroid N14 kernel rc_7 (newest both)
May 11 20:05:26 <Sc0rpius> hi
May 11 20:05:50 <Sc0rpius> I wonder if Tizen will be already dead on launch like Meego/Maemo were
May 11 20:26:16 <ShadowJK> Atleast maemo went through 5(6) major versions before dying :-)
May 11 20:29:03 <peterbjornx> is it me or is nitdroid installer broken
May 11 20:45:41 <Darkchaos> it is broken
May 11 20:45:49 <Darkchaos> some files on the http server are missing
May 11 20:48:38 <reiu> hey whats up?
May 11 21:12:59 <MrPingu> Hi
May 11 21:14:02 <MrPingu> Has anybody here experience with opensuse?
May 11 21:26:06 <peterbjornx> a bit
May 11 21:26:54 <MrPingu> Well how much crap has in it?
May 11 21:27:24 <peterbjornx> ?
May 11 21:31:45 <MrPingu_> I mean how much application has it in it I probably won't use and other settings/features?
May 11 21:32:16 <MrPingu_> Ubuntu had too much crap to my likings ;)
May 11 21:34:50 <DocScrutinizer> MrPingu_: for openSuse that is up to your sole discretion, when selecting which packets to install
May 11 21:36:38 <MrPingu_> Thank you
May 11 21:36:42 <DocScrutinizer> there's no nonsense like ubuntu vs kubuntu, with openSuse. You select your preferred desktop, your apps, ans you even got reasonable profiles to do a preselection for you, and you still can tweak them to all your liking
May 11 21:37:30 <DocScrutinizer> like "desktop", "workstation", "server" younameit
May 11 21:37:51 <MrPingu_> Seems what I am after, arch is bit too much for now ;)
May 11 21:38:12 <MrPingu_> Besides I like KDE :)
May 11 21:39:11 <DocScrutinizer> on newest openSuse KDE3 resurrected, means it's optional again
May 11 21:39:17 <DocScrutinizer> :-D
May 11 21:39:40 <DocScrutinizer> (of course kde4 latest is available, if you wondered)
May 11 21:39:57 <MrPingu_> I read that ;)
May 11 21:40:19 <peterbjornx> is it possible to enable the av out on bootup
May 11 21:40:44 <DocScrutinizer> peterbjornx: ??
May 11 21:41:33 <DocScrutinizer> peterbjornx: on which platform, to do what?
May 11 21:42:18 <reiu> god damn
May 11 21:43:39 <MrPingu_> whatsup reiu?
May 11 21:44:21 <MrPingu_> hmm useful visit ^^
May 11 21:44:33 <peterbjornx> n900
May 11 22:08:15 <DocScrutinizer> to show Video?
May 11 22:08:37 <DocScrutinizer> I think that's working "automagically"
May 11 22:09:51 <DocScrutinizer> I'll confirm for you in a few minutes (after newsflash)
May 11 22:20:44 <peterbjornx> fb con doesnt work on video out
May 11 22:20:58 <MrPingu_> G2G, bye!
May 11 22:38:56 <cehteh> blubb
May 11 22:39:31 <ShadowJK> video out is almost like a separate fb
May 11 22:39:34 <cehteh> dockane_: NAC is the measured cell capacity?
May 11 22:39:40 <cehteh> err DocScrutinizer ^^
May 11 22:40:27 <DocScrutinizer> cehteh: see bq27k-detail
May 11 22:40:43 <cehteh> yes i am looking at it, trying to interpret it
May 11 22:41:04 <ShadowJK> Remaining charge
May 11 22:41:10 <ShadowJK> (Nominal Available Capacity)
May 11 22:41:12 <cehteh> lshal tells me 1200something mah .. bq27k detail tell NAC == 1500mah
May 11 22:41:54 <cehteh> anyways for the first few cycles this Cellephone battery holds fine
May 11 22:41:55 <ShadowJK> needs about 2-3 learning cycles before it starts showing accurate numbers
May 11 22:41:58 <DocScrutinizer> NAC Nominal Available Capacity
May 11 22:42:12 <DocScrutinizer> emphasis on "available"
May 11 22:42:38 <cehteh> means till cell death? :)
May 11 22:42:44 <ShadowJK> LMD = Last Measured Discharge
May 11 22:43:11 <cehteh> 1508mAh ... not bad for this cheap standard sized cell
May 11 22:43:14 <DocScrutinizer> obviously if you charge one cell, then swap for an empty one and charge again, NAC will rise above what's possible for one cell
May 11 22:43:26 <cehteh> ah
May 11 22:43:44 <SpeedEvil> The charger should normally detect a missing cell, and not do that
May 11 22:43:44 <cehteh> can i reset the bq27 to start learning for a new cell?
May 11 22:44:04 <DocScrutinizer> for the battery gauge to show correct values, you need a (at least one) calibration cycle aka learning cycle
May 11 22:44:09 <cehteh> i am not swapping cells often so learning for one cell would be fine for me
May 11 22:44:20 <cehteh> i did that yesterday
May 11 22:44:22 <DocScrutinizer> it restes automatically on each complete discharge
May 11 22:44:27 <ShadowJK> NAC never rises above LMD
May 11 22:44:27 <cehteh> ok
May 11 22:44:35 <SpeedEvil> complete discharge - or cell absent IIRC
May 11 22:44:44 <SpeedEvil> It's been a while though
May 11 22:44:55 <DocScrutinizer> cell absent only if it gets detected
May 11 22:44:57 <cehteh> well complete discharge .. is that the phone (bmq induced) shutdown?
May 11 22:44:59 <SpeedEvil> indeed
May 11 22:45:17 <DocScrutinizer> bq27x00 is bad at detecting cell absence, as that's not what it's designed for
May 11 22:45:46 <ShadowJK> Besides, then it'd reset to the eeprom values, which default to 2000-ish mAh :P
May 11 22:45:52 <DocScrutinizer> cehteh: usually yes, if you don't discharge too rapidly
May 11 22:45:58 <cehteh> i'd like to reset the bq27x
May 11 22:46:19 <ShadowJK> I have about 40% success rate with discharging to bme shutdown threshold
May 11 22:46:26 <SpeedEvil> Indeed
May 11 22:46:31 <cehteh> bur well i think over time it will adapt to the new cell
May 11 22:46:53 <SpeedEvil> The BME shutdown, and the bq learn threshold on many devices are the same
May 11 22:47:06 <SpeedEvil> So it will randomly either learn, not learn, or learn sometimes.
May 11 22:47:15 <cehteh> borked :P
May 11 22:47:38 <SpeedEvil> The device needs to remain on for 10(?) seconds after the low voltage threshold is hit for it to register 
May 11 22:47:54 <SpeedEvil> you can of course stop bme to make it learn
May 11 22:48:01 <cehteh> i was hearing webradio until it suddenly shut down
May 11 22:48:13 <ShadowJK> (./bq27200 5)
May 11 22:48:17 <DocScrutinizer> sure thing is to stop bme until EDVF=1
May 11 22:48:20 <cehteh> from first battery warning to shutdown in a instant
May 11 22:48:31 <cehteh> ok trying that
May 11 22:51:15 <cehteh> so now someone has only to fix the mce bug disabling the led when there is to much light on the als 
May 11 22:51:35 <cehteh> i really wonder how this got broken
May 11 22:51:58 <cehteh> an attempt to dim the notification led with ambient light? .. never completed?
May 11 22:52:09 <cehteh> would be nice if it worked :P
May 11 22:52:48 <DocScrutinizer> stop bme; while ! bq27k-detail2|grep -q "1 EDVF"; do sleep 30; done; start bme
May 11 22:53:06 <cehteh> i have just ./bq27200 5 running
May 11 22:53:53 <DocScrutinizer> hah, I even got an icon for that
May 11 22:54:00 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
May 11 22:55:00 <cehteh> TTE=244 .. 
May 11 22:55:07 <DocScrutinizer> just in case some lurker wonders: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/bq27k-detail2
May 11 22:55:22 <ShadowJK> is VDQ 1?
May 11 22:55:39 <cehteh> with wlan and webradio the phone sucks amazingly much power unfortunally
May 11 22:55:56 <cehteh> yes, what is VDQ?
May 11 22:56:05 <ShadowJK> valid discharge
May 11 22:56:17 <ShadowJK> if it's 1, it will learn. If it's 0, it will ignore
May 11 22:56:29 <cehteh> ok
May 11 22:56:33 <ShadowJK> Gets set to 1 on full charge. Gets set to 0 when you start charging.
May 11 22:56:54 <DocScrutinizer> it goes to 0 when some unusual conditions make it think the learning cycle won't result in a good calibration
May 11 22:57:01 <cehteh> ok .. let it drain and dont connect :)
May 11 22:57:46 <DocScrutinizer> VDQ   Valid Discharge flag. Learning cycle in progress."
May 11 22:58:22 <cehteh> does it multiple learning cycles and integrate them or only one? .. or constantly, tries to learn with each cycle?
May 11 22:59:42 <SpeedEvil> just one
May 11 22:59:52 <SpeedEvil> Tries to learn with every qualified learning cycle
May 11 23:00:00 <cehteh> ok
May 11 23:00:09 <cehteh> so other work now .. :) bbl
May 11 23:00:21 <SpeedEvil> And changes the NAC by at most 1/8th each time
May 11 23:00:49 <Sc0rpius> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57432462-37/siri-says-nokia-lumia-900-the-best-smartphone-ever/ 
May 11 23:00:51 <Sc0rpius> that's so funny :)
May 11 23:01:09 <ShadowJK> Maximum change of battery capacity is 1/6th though, and original eeprom programmed capacity is 2000-ish, so to get to real battery capacity, the first learning cycles goes 2000-2000/6 = 1666, then 1388..
May 11 23:01:13 <ShadowJK> (rounded)
May 11 23:01:25 <ShadowJK> oh I thought it was 1/6th
May 11 23:01:30 <ShadowJK> could be 1/8th though I guess :P
May 11 23:04:42 <SpeedEvil> I'm 93.4% certain it's 1/8th
May 11 23:05:24 <DocScrutinizer> it's 1/8 and afaik not NAC, as NAC is the currently available netto mAh in battery
May 11 23:05:37 <DocScrutinizer> I'd think it's LMD 
May 11 23:06:11 <DocScrutinizer> vs "ILMD Initial Last Measured Discharge"
May 11 23:06:14 <SpeedEvil> yeah
May 11 23:06:29 <SpeedEvil> LMD sets NAC
May 11 23:06:30 <cehteh> btw, does tizen allow nativ applications and had a reasonable standard userland?
May 11 23:06:34 <SpeedEvil> (at 100%)
May 11 23:06:45 <DocScrutinizer> which is  *0x100 * 3.57 / 20 =  2062 mAh fabcoded cell capacity
May 11 23:06:47 * cehteh not looked it it yet
May 11 23:06:47 * SpeedEvil points to #tizen
May 11 23:06:50 * SpeedEvil has no idea
May 11 23:07:11 <cehteh> just in case someone here knows, i dont want to know details
May 11 23:07:26 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: yep, LMD sets NAC when charge end detected
May 11 23:09:35 <DocScrutinizer> cehteh: watch your ./bq27200 5 and you'll learn to interprete the values
May 11 23:10:48 <DocScrutinizer> basically it's simple: NAC gets set to LMD when cell gets charged to 100%. Then it counts down based on actual current drawn from battery
May 11 23:10:59 <DocScrutinizer> it might even get negative
May 11 23:12:37 <DocScrutinizer> when battery voltage reaches EDVF, NAC gets set to 0, and LMD gets adjusted to new measured discharge capacity (by max 1/8 off from last value)
May 11 23:13:28 <DocScrutinizer> now you charge battery, and when it's full again, NAC gets set to new LMD value
May 11 23:13:56 <DocScrutinizer> I.E. to the total delta value of NAC from last discharge
May 11 23:14:25 <DocScrutinizer> so in theory NAC now should reach 0 exactly when EDVF kicks in
May 11 23:14:26 <cehteh> yes, i known that, i was just confused by some unplausible values and the way it does things in detail
May 11 23:48:23 <DocScrutinizer> peterbjornx: AV out works from first progress indicator dot jumping
May 11 23:48:51 <DocScrutinizer> peterbjornx: it doesn't work for NOLO (NOKIA screen)
May 12 00:22:49 <cehteh> damn new battery ...
May 12 00:23:11 <cehteh> it doesnt want to drain :/ .. seems this becoming a long night :P 
May 12 00:23:40 <ShadowJK> lol
May 12 00:23:56 <ShadowJK> What's the voltage and current drain (mA)?
May 12 00:23:57 <cehteh> i should keep display on :P
May 12 00:24:34 <cehteh> i push it to -390 mA :)
May 12 00:24:41 <cehteh> -510 :)
May 12 00:24:49 <cehteh> running an update
May 12 00:24:54 <ShadowJK> voltage?
May 12 00:25:17 <cehteh> 3743 .. still 947mah left
May 12 00:25:35 <cehteh> (well thats inprecise)
May 12 00:25:49 <cehteh> whats the end voltage for bq27x?
May 12 00:25:52 <ShadowJK> start gpsjinni or somethning, adds 80mA
May 12 00:25:56 <ShadowJK> 3248
May 12 00:26:04 <cehteh> outch .. long way to go :)
May 12 00:26:36 <ShadowJK> well it's not entirely predictable, voltage will vary between batteries
May 12 00:26:40 <cehteh> display on is the best sucker
May 12 00:27:26 <ShadowJK> the japod battery I'm using maintains 3600-3700 or more for amazingly long, but then it collapses pretty fast when approaching empty
May 12 00:27:52 <cehteh> i am happy that this is a standard sized battery
May 12 00:27:53 <ShadowJK> Also streaming netradio on 3g is biggest drain I've found :)
May 12 00:27:59 <cehteh> (otterbox ..)
May 12 00:28:11 <cehteh> i am streaming netradio on wlan
May 12 00:29:11 <cehteh> -647 mA ... record :)
May 12 00:29:42 <DocScrutinizer>    0x77:       119 SEDVF Scaled EDVF Threshold                                       R/W
May 12 00:29:43 <DocScrutinizer>                     +0x100)*8 =  3000 mV (@ 0%)
May 12 00:29:45 <DocScrutinizer>    0x78:       150 SEDV1 Scaled EDV1 Threshold                                       R/W
May 12 00:29:46 <DocScrutinizer>                     +0x100)*8 =  3248 mV (@ 6.25%)
May 12 00:34:21 <SpeedEvil> I think I got over an amp once
May 12 00:34:54 <DocScrutinizer> well, it's like 2+A possible, but not continuously
May 12 00:34:57 <SpeedEvil> Flashlight + camera + 3g + wifi + .md5sum
May 12 00:35:16 <SpeedEvil> Over an amp isn't hard
May 12 00:35:44 <cehteh> i dont want to fry my device :)
May 12 00:36:13 <DocScrutinizer> also makes for a poor learning cycle
May 12 00:36:19 <SpeedEvil> Indeed
May 12 00:36:30 <SpeedEvil> Much more than you will normally use understates the capacity
May 12 00:36:41 <DocScrutinizer> 500mA +/- are just fine
May 12 00:37:24 <cehteh> what disables the geotagging in the CSSU camera app? i always have to reenable it
May 12 00:37:39 <DocScrutinizer> umm
May 12 00:39:52 <cehteh> exactly
May 12 00:40:25 <GeneralAntilles> MAGIC!
May 12 00:40:46 <GeneralAntilles> It's a privacy feature—it detects when the NSA is sniffing your GPS connection. Duh.
May 12 01:01:51 * ShadowJK managed 1.2-1.3A continously
May 12 01:05:45 <DocScrutinizer> cehteh: anyway, your battery should reach end of discharge meanwhile, even at 500mA avrg ?
May 12 01:06:00 <DocScrutinizer> cehteh: what'S the voltage now?
May 12 01:11:35 <cehteh> haha :) not yet 3697mV 
May 12 01:11:44 <cehteh> i was in the kitchen and it switched to 3G
May 12 01:12:03 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: video over 3g
May 12 01:12:11 <SpeedEvil> argh - silly scroll
May 12 01:12:35 <cehteh> TTE 100 ...
May 12 01:12:58 <DocScrutinizer> doesn't mean a thing, since it's not calibrated
May 12 01:12:59 <cehteh> (turned display off, just normal discharge, no extra sucking)
May 12 01:13:33 <cehteh> yeah but 3650 mV is still plenty left
May 12 01:13:41 <DocScrutinizer> actually not
May 12 01:13:50 <SpeedEvil> ~30%ish?
May 12 01:13:59 <DocScrutinizer> it's dropping rapidly once it reaches 3600
May 12 01:14:10 <cehteh> thats plenty when you wait for it draining :)
May 12 01:14:15 <ShadowJK> depends on battery, my original bl-5)s spend majority of discharge around 36xx
May 12 01:14:33 <cehteh> i know lipo discharge curves
May 12 01:14:58 <ShadowJK> this is lipo
May 12 01:15:03 <cehteh> yes
May 12 01:15:22 <ShadowJK> But optimized for max energy density, not optimized for power like the RC lipos are :P
May 12 01:16:07 <cehteh> anyways discharge curves are similar in some ways .. there is some quite long linearity in the middle
May 12 01:16:23 <DocScrutinizer> :nod:
May 12 01:16:35 <DocScrutinizer> watch voltage delta
May 12 01:16:52 <cehteh> some people consider RC batteries empty at 3800mV 
May 12 01:16:59 <cehteh> (without load)
May 12 01:17:34 <DocScrutinizer> sounds reasonable
May 12 01:18:21 <cehteh> yep, while i think 3600 should be ok still, but the big packs are still expensive
May 12 01:18:44 <cehteh> for my heli, a battery costs 2.80 Eur, i dont overly care 
May 12 01:18:53 <DocScrutinizer> ooh, I just see you got 3697, not 3650
May 12 01:19:33 <cehteh> but when you have 12S batteries with 4000mAh then its really expensive
May 12 01:19:48 <cehteh> well differing load it varies quite much
May 12 01:19:54 <DocScrutinizer> yep
May 12 01:20:25 <ShadowJK> I just stop flying when loaded voltage dips below 3.7, because some other cell might be lower
May 12 01:20:25 <cehteh> one reads 3633 another 3660 
May 12 01:20:26 <DocScrutinizer> that's root cause why calibration is so unreliably happening
May 12 01:20:43 <ShadowJK> if it was single-cell pack I'd fly to 3.2 :)
May 12 01:20:52 <cehteh> there are voltage watchdogs which watch each single cell .. 
May 12 01:21:18 <cehteh> but they warn at 3.3V (with load then) .. if you then start looking for a landing place, thats quite late
May 12 01:22:00 <ShadowJK> yes
May 12 01:22:12 <cehteh> my ESC shuts down around 3.4V .. so ok for me (and i still dont fly until that happens)
May 12 01:22:24 <ShadowJK> I also don't land first attempt usually ;)
May 12 01:22:34 * DocScrutinizer wonders how much cehteh 's battery voltage dropped since last reading
May 12 01:22:43 <cehteh> ShadowJK: airplane?
May 12 01:22:50 <ShadowJK> heli
May 12 01:22:56 <cehteh> 3644 last reading
May 12 01:23:03 <cehteh> ShadowJK: which one?
May 12 01:23:26 <cehteh> tiny V120D02S here :)
May 12 01:23:29 <ShadowJK> a lame fixed pitch. Esky honeybee 2
May 12 01:23:39 <cehteh> ah ok ... then mine is even biggier :)
May 12 01:23:54 <ShadowJK> it's about 300grams
May 12 01:24:02 <cehteh> \o/ .. that happens rarely
May 12 01:24:21 <cehteh> oh.. mine is 100gramms .. but CP and torque driven
May 12 01:24:23 <DocScrutinizer> I'd like 300kg
May 12 01:24:44 <DocScrutinizer> ;-D
May 12 01:24:59 <DocScrutinizer> prolly not powered by LiPo
May 12 01:25:33 <cehteh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2RKLggne0E << dont try that at home
May 12 01:26:02 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer; actually there's on youtube a LiPo driven multirotor contraption with a passenger
May 12 01:26:22 <DocScrutinizer> o.O
May 12 01:26:47 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil will listen up on that
May 12 01:26:50 <ShadowJK> I think I want something hevier than 300grams for outdoor. My current heli isn't that good when there's wind, and too big for indoors
May 12 01:27:55 <cehteh> ShadowJK: go CP .. my 100gram heli holds even well in strong wind
May 12 01:28:09 <cehteh> its FP sux in wind
May 12 01:28:11 <SpeedEvil> I have a hoverboard sketch.
May 12 01:28:25 <SpeedEvil> ~60kg, capable of free flight, ~1m*1m
May 12 01:28:27 <ShadowJK> Also, geared etrm sucks
May 12 01:28:33 <SpeedEvil> 2G accelleration.
May 12 01:29:01 <SpeedEvil> Close-packed array of small ducted fans, and a lot of fast LiPo
May 12 01:29:02 <SpeedEvil> :)
May 12 01:29:31 <cehteh> 3615mv ...
May 12 01:30:29 <DocScrutinizer> cehteh: watch it drop now
May 12 01:30:41 <cehteh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgECnfhJlTI  2G? .. pah :), i dont even want to know how much G a goblin has
May 12 01:30:52 <cehteh> DocScrutinizer: 3625 :P
May 12 01:31:06 <SpeedEvil> Oh yeah - that nutter
May 12 01:32:13 <ShadowJK> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L75ESD9PBOw
May 12 01:32:25 <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oix6sHKzOLU - even more G
May 12 01:32:44 <DocScrutinizer> http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/batlog.txt.odf
May 12 01:32:48 <DocScrutinizer> see table2
May 12 01:32:53 <ShadowJK> tareq's style is just sick
May 12 01:33:01 <SpeedEvil> I think I worked out those slope soarers were pulling in excess of 40G
May 12 01:33:25 <ShadowJK> http://enivax.net/jk/n900/volt.png
May 12 01:34:43 <cehteh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YaOCIqJWLc  that takeoff is awesome
May 12 01:35:14 <cehteh> DocScrutinizer: 3591 ...
May 12 01:35:46 <cehteh> ok now it goes down
May 12 01:36:10 <DocScrutinizer> toldya, when reaching 3600 it goes down rapidly
May 12 01:36:32 <Hurrian> DocScrutinizer, mV?
May 12 01:36:41 <DocScrutinizer> yup
May 12 01:41:48 <cehteh> lowbat blinking
May 12 01:42:31 <Hurrian> running it down to zero?
May 12 01:42:31 <cehteh> 3313 mV ... and device died
May 12 01:42:53 <cehteh> thats not going to work with learning :P
May 12 01:43:33 <ShadowJK> you didn't stop bme?
May 12 01:43:50 <cehteh> ./bq27200 disables bme?
May 12 01:44:02 <cehteh> ohno 
May 12 01:44:04 <cehteh> damn
May 12 01:44:11 <ShadowJK> it doesn't
May 12 01:44:58 <ShadowJK> try switch it on anyways ;-)
May 12 01:45:10 <cehteh> i do
May 12 01:45:24 <cehteh> err .. shuts down, needs a little charge
May 12 01:46:28 <DocScrutinizer> plug to charger, boot, start >>stop bme; while ! bq27k-detail2|grep -q "1 EDVF"; do sleep 30; done; start bme<<, unplug
May 12 01:47:00 <DocScrutinizer> or rather, first unplug, immediately after unplugging, stop bme
May 12 01:47:30 <cehteh> first i need it to boot up, well i can do another learning cycle
May 12 01:47:44 <cehteh> how well does ./bq27200 handle charging?
May 12 01:47:54 <DocScrutinizer> err, not at all
May 12 01:48:21 <cehteh> wasnt there some other script which programs the charging?
May 12 01:48:25 <DocScrutinizer> it's largely unrelated to charge handling
May 12 01:48:37 <DocScrutinizer> you don't need any of that
May 12 01:49:05 <cehteh> there was something to poke the charge current
May 12 01:49:17 <DocScrutinizer> boot it up with charger plugged in, start bq27200.sh, stop bme, unplug
May 12 01:49:43 <cehteh> yep
May 12 01:50:09 <cehteh> well i need to wait a bit to boot, else i dont get to the point to stop bme
May 12 01:50:24 <cehteh> or i do the whole thing tomorrow with a new cycle
May 12 01:50:52 <DocScrutinizer> see, you discharged too quick (or too slow?), it had no chance to reach 3248 mV
May 12 01:51:05 <DocScrutinizer> for a sufficiently long period
May 12 01:51:16 <cehteh> thats not about chance .. thats bme's fault
May 12 01:51:25 <cehteh> i forgot to kick it
May 12 01:56:43 <DocScrutinizer> well, I have several bq27200.sh 5 logs where calibration aka learning cycle succeeded with bme running
May 12 01:57:18 <SpeedEvil> Same here
May 12 01:57:23 <SpeedEvil> 95% of the time - not
May 12 01:57:46 <DocScrutinizer> depends on battery, and on load characteristics
May 12 01:58:01 <SpeedEvil> Cycle Count since Learning: 24
May 12 01:58:01 <SpeedEvil> Total Cycle Count since last full reset: 93
May 12 01:58:56 <DocScrutinizer> either bme cuts out immediately when voltage drops under 3200mV, while bq27200 needs 5s @ <3248
May 12 01:59:50 <DocScrutinizer> or bme cuts out on >60s at <3300mV, while bq....
May 12 02:00:32 <DocScrutinizer> I guess it's like the first one
May 12 02:01:45 <SpeedEvil> The logs I have say BME triggers exactly on the point of the low voltage flag going on
May 12 02:02:05 <DocScrutinizer> so too much ripple in load current will cause bme kick in before bq can detect laerning cycle finished at EDV1
May 12 02:02:07 <SpeedEvil> If it's reading it is an interesting question
May 12 02:03:25 <DocScrutinizer> yes, my logs of successful learning cycles with bme are like shutdown by bme max 120s after CI->0
May 12 02:04:28 <DocScrutinizer> and they all are @ <300mA
May 12 02:05:48 <DocScrutinizer> cehteh: you managed to restart discharging?
May 12 02:06:47 <DocScrutinizer> (and I honestly hope for you it won't go VDQ->0)
May 12 02:07:35 <DocScrutinizer> (but probably it will, as you will charge it anyway, to get it booting)
May 12 02:10:15 <DocScrutinizer> so: >>  while bq27k-detail2|grep -q "1 CHGS"; do sleep 30; done; stop bme; while ! bq27k-detail2|grep -q "1 EDVF"; do sleep 30; done; start bme
May 12 02:10:50 <DocScrutinizer> even
May 12 02:11:36 <DocScrutinizer> so: >>  while bq27k-detail2|grep -q "1 CHGS"; do sleep 30; done; stop bme; while bq27k-detail2|grep -q "1 CI"; do sleep 30; done; start bme
May 12 02:14:26 <cehteh> DocScrutinizer: i just charge it full and make another cycle
May 12 02:14:55 <DocScrutinizer> cehteh: that'S exactly what this oneliner 'script' does, automagically
May 12 02:15:15 <cehteh> to lazy to type it in on the n900 keyboard :P
May 12 02:15:29 <DocScrutinizer> stop bme causes charging to stop, discharging to start
May 12 02:15:40 <cehteh> n900 is connected to my wlan which is outside of my office network 
May 12 02:16:41 <DocScrutinizer> it's charging until battery full, then stops bme, discharging takes place, until bq27200 completes learning cycle, where bme gets started so it doesn't even shut down (hopefully) but rather charges battery again
May 12 02:16:59 <cehteh> well i need a full battery tomorrow and no experiments
May 12 02:17:08 <cehteh> can do that next night or another day
May 12 02:17:13 * DocScrutinizer just starts exactly that line now, via WLAN ssh
May 12 02:17:51 <cehteh> i have a little strange network setup, the n900 is not reachable :P .. 
May 12 02:17:55 <DocScrutinizer> meh, some syntax error
May 12 02:18:00 <cehteh> shall make openvpn work again :)
May 12 02:20:03 <DocScrutinizer> ok, it works as expected, seems it runs straight to the end since my CI=0 and my battery is already completely charged
May 12 02:20:47 <DocScrutinizer> on second test it's waiting for bme / bq24150 stopping the charging that kicked in on >> start bme << of last run
May 12 02:21:27 <cehteh> DocScrutinizer: stop, do something else :P .. i know how to shellscript too :P
May 12 02:21:38 <cehteh> but i am just now not after it
May 12 02:21:54 <DocScrutinizer> http://paste.debian.net/168417/
May 12 02:22:25 <DocScrutinizer> meh, you don't think I'm doing that just for you, do you? ;-P
May 12 02:26:43 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, for those interested in it and not looking at the pastie above:
May 12 02:26:45 <DocScrutinizer> while bin/bq27k-detail2|grep -q "1 CHGS"; do sleep 30; done; stop bme; while bin/bq27k-detail2|grep -q "1 CI"; do sleep 30; done; start bme
May 12 02:26:57 <cehteh> nope .. make a git init .. commit it and then lets make some useable scripts from it :)
May 12 02:27:23 <cehteh> you have some place to host git? otherwise you can get an account on my server
May 12 02:27:25 <DocScrutinizer> HAH, not going to pkg that
May 12 02:27:41 <DocScrutinizer> and for sure no git
May 12 02:27:46 <cehteh> nope not package, just some place where we can volunatry improve these scripts
May 12 02:27:51 <DocScrutinizer> for sth that'
May 12 02:28:01 <cehteh> duh :P
May 12 02:28:04 <DocScrutinizer> S basically a shellscript 4 liner
May 12 02:28:30 <cehteh> yes still .. things improve over time and you could add the other bq* scripts as well
May 12 02:28:37 <DocScrutinizer> might end in http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/  
May 12 02:28:48 <cehteh> if you want so
May 12 02:29:01 <DocScrutinizer> or even http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/
May 12 02:29:05 <cehteh> i just always use git :)
May 12 02:29:32 <DocScrutinizer> I'd for sure do that as well, if I was used to use git
May 12 02:29:48 <DocScrutinizer> since I'm not...
May 12 02:29:52 <cehteh> could be a start :)
May 12 02:30:05 <DocScrutinizer> way too much overhead
May 12 02:30:14 <cehteh> not really
May 12 02:30:37 <cehteh> git scales with how you use it . and that also into the small project direction
May 12 02:38:04 <DocScrutinizer> the learning curve doesn't
May 12 02:38:25 <DocScrutinizer> or at least the howtos don't
May 12 02:41:33 <cehteh> you can ask me .. and for basic git usage a handful commands and actions are enouh
May 12 02:41:45 <cehteh> basically just    add, commit and push
May 12 02:41:57 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, just to pick then out of the plethora is a PITA
May 12 02:42:05 <cehteh> and in few cases merge
May 12 02:42:15 <cehteh> well you decision
May 12 02:43:41 <DocScrutinizer> I guess a mere >git add bq27200-calibration.sh<< won't get me anywhere but to a breathtaking manpage
May 12 02:45:31 <DocScrutinizer> for now I'm probably absolutely served by handling clearcase at work
May 12 02:47:57 <DocScrutinizer> and from that and basic understanding of how a CVS works, I guess I have to create a entity prior to using simple commands like add, commit, push
May 12 02:48:18 <ShadowJK> installing git on N900 should prove fun
May 12 02:48:20 <ShadowJK> :)
May 12 02:51:24 <DocScrutinizer> git --help add; YAY /o\
May 12 02:51:46 <DocScrutinizer> "add to the index" MHM
May 12 02:53:10 <DocScrutinizer> feels like even clearcase is simpler - it only needs me to create a view, then checkout files in that view if I want to edit them, add files I create in that view, and finally checkin again
May 12 02:53:34 <Sc0rpius> it's a pity there's no library to develop a new protocol for Conversations in Qt :(
May 12 02:53:39 <Sc0rpius> I think I'm starting to hate Glib
May 12 02:56:29 <DocScrutinizer> maybe git add -A is a useful cmd for simple low-profile approach
May 12 02:57:24 <DocScrutinizer> next: "commit"
May 12 02:59:43 <DocScrutinizer> haha, man git-commit  >>The content to be added can be specified in several ways:  ... 4. by using the -a switch with the commit command to automatically "add" changes from all known files<<
May 12 02:59:55 <cehteh> ShadowJK: i have git on the n900 ... its packaged in the devel stuff
May 12 02:59:55 * DocScrutinizer wonders why add is needed then, at all
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat May 12 02:59:58 2012