**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri May 18 02:59:58 2012
May 18 03:22:35 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer,  are You still there? and, do You ever sleep?
May 18 03:22:55 <DocScrutinizer> sleep is useless
May 18 03:24:50 <DocScrutinizer> Estel_: what's up?
May 18 03:25:12 <Estel_> ;) could we do small test
May 18 03:25:25 <Estel_> I'll disconnect, and You'll check if I've been marked away
May 18 03:25:32 <Estel_> and write some test things
May 18 03:25:37 <DocScrutinizer> :-D
May 18 03:25:44 <Estel_> then, I'll reonnect and see if buffer still works as it should
May 18 03:25:49 <DocScrutinizer> I don't think you'll get marked away
May 18 03:26:01 <Estel_> ok?
May 18 03:26:05 <DocScrutinizer> ok
May 18 03:26:07 <Estel_> cause You've kicked out simple_away? :P
May 18 03:26:14 <DocScrutinizer> :nod:
May 18 03:26:17 <Estel_> before, I was marked away on disconnect from proxy
May 18 03:26:26 <DocScrutinizer> really?
May 18 03:26:47 <Estel_> erm, and simple away had something to do with messages? why You thought its good to disable it?
May 18 03:26:48 <Estel_> yea.
May 18 03:26:52 <DocScrutinizer> well, I can uncomment it
May 18 03:26:57 <DocScrutinizer> in 30s
May 18 03:27:04 <Estel_> after connecting, I got buffer message about estel being marked away
May 18 03:27:22 <Estel_> and after connecting that "You're no longer marked away"
May 18 03:27:32 <Estel_> so I suppose it worked
May 18 03:27:59 <Estel_> ok, so please uncomment it, then we'll perform test... Thanks in advance
May 18 03:28:13 <DocScrutinizer> done :-D
May 18 03:29:10 <DocScrutinizer> you should've seen a "*rehash finished"
May 18 03:29:50 <DocScrutinizer> hope you're offline meanwhile ;-D
May 18 03:31:12 <Estel_> :) not yet
May 18 03:31:19 <Estel_> and no rehash message
May 18 03:31:29 <Estel_> Catorise blocked my device for a while
May 18 03:31:47 <DocScrutinizer> umm, so maybe only operator account gets that msg
May 18 03:31:52 <Estel_> ok, I'm re connecting after 15 second, write something in meantime pls
May 18 03:31:55 <Estel_> possible
May 18 03:32:05 <DocScrutinizer> 15 sec from when?
May 18 03:32:15 <DocScrutinizer> you're funny
May 18 03:32:21 <DocScrutinizer> 15 sec is short time
May 18 03:33:41 <DocScrutinizer> and I think ZNC won't notice you disconnecting, only if ping timeouts or TCP timeouts happen
May 18 03:34:00 <DocScrutinizer> aah, you're marked away
May 18 03:34:42 <DocScrutinizer> Estel_: ?
May 18 03:35:10 <DocScrutinizer> looks good
May 18 03:37:03 <DocScrutinizer> long 15 seconds ;-P
May 18 04:02:04 <DocScrutinizer> extremely long 15 seconds
May 18 04:07:48 <eddyb> hi
May 18 04:08:08 <eddyb> so I got a N900, and I love it
May 18 04:08:16 <eddyb> but as anything else in the world, it's not perfect
May 18 04:08:16 <beford> <3
May 18 04:08:22 <beford> it is perfect
May 18 04:08:44 <eddyb> I looked for chromium, but I only get results from 2010, there's nothing new
May 18 04:14:25 <eddyb> so, is there no recent chromium build?
May 18 04:15:39 <beford> I remember reading something about it on the forums, somehow it was required to be removed from the repo. No idea why
May 18 04:21:07 <eddyb> :(
May 18 04:21:12 <eddyb> I need a decent browser
May 18 04:21:26 <eddyb> I tried Tear, it's JS engine is too old
May 18 04:25:02 <eddyb> *its
May 18 04:25:43 <beford> *maybe* with easy debian you can get a recent browser?
May 18 04:27:40 <eddyb> easy-deb-chroot?
May 18 04:28:57 <beford> yes, I suppose its a bit overkill to run a debian system just for a browser but well
May 18 04:29:13 <eddyb> pffft, it's ok
May 18 04:31:33 <eddyb> guess I'll play with Cleven some more :)
May 18 04:32:52 <DocScrutinizer> honestly what's wrong with microB?
May 18 04:34:19 <pronto|s1rver> its made from potatoes
May 18 04:35:29 * DocScrutinizer loves potatoes
May 18 04:36:30 <DocScrutinizer> I haven't used Opera since at least 6 months
May 18 04:37:42 <DocScrutinizer> chromium, in a easydeb? Dang there must be sth terribly odd with microB
May 18 05:01:17 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer,  sorry for awesomely extremely long 15 seconds :P
May 18 05:01:32 <DocScrutinizer51> hehe
May 18 05:01:40 <Estel_> my son just awakened, and I got to feed him etc
May 18 05:01:51 <Estel_> then my connection ceased to work :P
May 18 05:02:23 <Estel_> everything works great. I get messages that I'm interested in and I got properly set "away" mark
May 18 05:02:54 <Estel_> tahnk You for another bit of help and hosting to use this wonderful tool :)
May 18 05:03:26 <Estel_> as for microB, for me, biggest issue is lack of tabs - opening plenthora of windows is annoying
May 18 05:03:38 <Estel_> lack of "forward" as addition to back
May 18 05:03:54 <Estel_> and biggest issue - lack of spell checking
May 18 05:04:34 <Estel_> it's very important for someone who write in many languages @ forums etc, and using LibreOffice (on device) for this everytime is suboptimal
May 18 05:04:46 <Estel_> for everything else, microB roxx, especially speed
May 18 05:05:18 <Estel_> BTW Chromium is working very well via ED, and I use it daily to write on TMO
May 18 05:06:42 <Estel_> it's generally very fast, even with 20+ tabs opened - if one use ED on dedicated partition, swap on microSD and tuned swap settings (*not* as proposed in swapollube, those settings are depreciated)
May 18 05:07:25 <Estel_> OK, I'm away for now, need to care care about kids :) see ya
May 18 05:08:09 <DocScrutinizer51> forward in microB isn't that hard to do. swipe from right, tap righthand next page in history
May 18 06:36:20 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer,  (microb) true, forget about it. Still, tabs and spell check (or, generally, easy inclusion of extensions) is a problem for me when doing "serious" asks via web frontend ;)
May 18 06:36:30 <Estel_> for general browsing, microB kicks ass
May 18 06:37:12 <Estel_> BTW - again, as everyone know already ;) We have Council election running. I'm glad to talk with anyone interested and/or answer questions, as a candidate
May 18 06:37:38 <Venemo_N950> heya
May 18 06:37:45 <Estel_> for a hour or two from now on. Of course, You may ping me also when I'm away - I'll answer when present
May 18 06:37:49 <Estel_> hi there
May 18 06:38:07 <Venemo_N950> so, I hear Nokia wants to give us N9s?
May 18 06:38:13 <Estel_> + please include my nick when pinging me after a silent while
May 18 06:38:17 <Estel_> yep. N950 to
May 18 06:38:22 <Estel_> 100 total
May 18 06:38:28 <Estel_> 40 N950
May 18 06:38:45 <Estel_> last batch that is known to exist, as per Qgil
May 18 06:38:49 <Venemo_N950> I already have one, and am not that greedy
May 18 06:38:55 <Estel_> ;)
May 18 06:39:09 <Venemo_N950> but an N9'd be nice to have
May 18 06:39:16 <Estel_> it's good, cause someone who received one already can't apply for next in most categories
May 18 06:39:43 <Venemo_N950> so, can I apply for an N9 somehow?
May 18 06:39:45 <Estel_> I think that someone owning N950 should  still be able to get N9 is did something worth such recognition
May 18 06:39:53 <Estel_> there are 4 categories
May 18 06:40:01 <Venemo_N950> mhhmm
May 18 06:40:01 <Estel_> Community Aawards (Maemo)
May 18 06:40:11 <Estel_> 25 devices total in each category
May 18 06:40:19 <Estel_> for pats deeds
May 18 06:40:25 <Estel_> Coding Competition
May 18 06:40:37 <Venemo_N950> maybe I should've paid more attention to my Harmattan app dev efforts lately?
May 18 06:40:39 <Estel_> see it's thread on TMO, I think You can grasp N9 here
May 18 06:40:46 <Estel_> not exactly.
May 18 06:41:02 <Estel_> I'm trying my best to convince CC staff to recognize multiplatform programs
May 18 06:41:15 <Venemo_N950> well, I still owe some apps to the community that I've never released
May 18 06:41:17 <Estel_> i.e. the more compatigble with both Maemo and Harmattan, the better
May 18 06:41:30 <Estel_> if also compatible with Mer, it's paradise
May 18 06:41:48 <Venemo_N950> awesome idea! :)
May 18 06:41:52 <Estel_> we're going to have OBS for all targets soon, so it's good practice to do multiplatform
May 18 06:41:52 <Sc0rpius> Mer?
May 18 06:42:03 <Estel_> as soon it will be even more easy to do
May 18 06:42:09 <Sc0rpius> that sounds interesting
May 18 06:42:17 <Venemo_N950> mhm
May 18 06:42:18 <Sc0rpius> main Mer development is in Qt right?
May 18 06:42:27 <Estel_> *if* code is good enough, doing it for different platforms may be as easy as choosing different target in OBS
May 18 06:42:32 <Estel_> yep
May 18 06:42:38 <Venemo_N950> Sc0rpius, yep, that too
May 18 06:42:39 <Estel_> here we go for 3th category
May 18 06:42:43 <Estel_> QT
May 18 06:42:45 <Sc0rpius> Qt is great I love it
May 18 06:42:48 <Estel_> here qgil is managing it
May 18 06:42:49 <Venemo_N950> :)
May 18 06:43:06 <Estel_> 4th category is qt 5 experimental, so it's almost not related to maemo.org at all
May 18 06:43:14 <Venemo_N950> almost
May 18 06:43:16 <Venemo_N950> :P
May 18 06:43:20 <Estel_> :P
May 18 06:43:22 <Sc0rpius> I wonder if Mer is installable in any device
May 18 06:43:28 <Estel_> of course it is
May 18 06:43:32 <Sc0rpius> which one
May 18 06:43:40 <Estel_> N900 from top of my head
May 18 06:43:43 <Venemo_N950> Mer runs on all N9(x0) devices
May 18 06:43:49 <Estel_> + some android tablets
May 18 06:43:51 <Sc0rpius> I haven't ever heard of anyone using an N900 with Mer
May 18 06:44:00 <Estel_> of course You have.
May 18 06:44:03 <Estel_> Mer is a core
May 18 06:44:03 <Sc0rpius> and is it usable? I mean can you dial a phone number and receive SMS ?
May 18 06:44:07 <Venemo_N950> Sc0rpius, ask on #mer
May 18 06:44:13 <Estel_> then, You need User Interface on top of it
May 18 06:44:19 <Estel_> Nemo is open UI for Mer
May 18 06:44:21 <Venemo_N950> Sc0rpius, methinks yes
May 18 06:44:23 <Sc0rpius> hmmm
May 18 06:44:37 <Sc0rpius> Tizen should embrace Qt
May 18 06:44:38 <Estel_> so ikf You've heard about someone using Nemo, You've heard about someone using Mer
May 18 06:44:49 <Estel_> Maybe it will, but IMO tizen is shit
May 18 06:45:00 <Venemo_N950> well anyway. whatever :)
May 18 06:45:11 <Estel_> only use of it is that we *may*be able to put mer on decent devices released with tizen
May 18 06:45:20 <Venemo_N950> lol
May 18 06:45:26 <Estel_> i.e. delete tizen totally and gain device with 1GB of RAM ;)
May 18 06:45:40 <Sc0rpius> Nemo/Mer sounds great
May 18 06:45:45 <Venemo_N950> Estel_, N9(50) already has 1gb ram
May 18 06:45:49 <Sc0rpius> I didn't know about it
May 18 06:45:53 <Estel_> but it isnt produced
May 18 06:46:01 <Venemo_N950> Sc0rpius, also, they're totally open
May 18 06:46:03 <Estel_> N9 is also discounted in finland
May 18 06:46:10 <Sc0rpius> I guess I could do dual boot (with an N900) to test Mer
May 18 06:46:11 <Venemo_N950> yep
May 18 06:46:17 <Estel_> yes. Nemo isn't "stable" though
May 18 06:46:28 <Venemo_N950> Estel_, I was thinking of buying a discounted N9
May 18 06:46:30 <Estel_> Mer too, but Mer is more "ready" than Nemo
May 18 06:46:53 <Estel_> Vemeo, for me lack of microSD card slot, keyboard, and capacitive screen is a no-go
May 18 06:47:02 <Estel_> especially for that price
May 18 06:47:12 <Venemo_N950> that's what I thought
May 18 06:47:12 <Estel_> + build-in battery...
May 18 06:47:17 <Estel_> damn monoblock
May 18 06:47:18 <Estel_> etc
May 18 06:47:24 <Venemo_N950> until the N950 hijacked me
May 18 06:47:46 <Venemo_N950> i would never touch a resistive screen agaim
May 18 06:47:53 <Estel_> N900 sill flies circles around N9/N950, honestly
May 18 06:47:54 <freemangordon> I still cannot get it why FMTX is not implemented.
May 18 06:48:06 <Estel_> freemangordon,  same here
May 18 06:48:13 <Estel_> I forget about it
May 18 06:48:23 <Estel_> Venemo, try using easy debian on Your capacitive
May 18 06:48:26 <freemangordon> that is the major stopper for me to even think to replace my N900 as a primary device
May 18 06:48:26 <Venemo_N950> freemangordon, because the chip isn't wired to an antenna
May 18 06:48:26 <eddyb> why can't we get the N950 :((?
May 18 06:48:28 <Estel_> or drawing like mypaint
May 18 06:48:35 <Estel_> god, I hate capacitive screens
May 18 06:48:35 <Sc0rpius> because the FM transmitter???
May 18 06:48:38 <Estel_> so much
May 18 06:48:39 <Sc0rpius> who uses that? :
May 18 06:48:40 <freemangordon> Venemo_N950, yes, but why?
May 18 06:48:45 <Venemo_N950> Estel_, neither are my use cases
May 18 06:48:50 <freemangordon> Sc0rpius, me
May 18 06:48:54 <Sc0rpius> what for
May 18 06:48:57 <Estel_> Sc0rpius,  me too
May 18 06:48:58 <Venemo_N950> freemangordon, because they were stupid?
May 18 06:49:28 <Sc0rpius> you get better sound using the headphones jack.
May 18 06:49:50 <Estel_> freemangordon, out of curiosity - what stops You now from including 720p recording inside CSSU?
May 18 06:49:52 <freemangordon> Sc0rpius, I have 2 cars to (one personal and one corporate), plus my GF has a car too. That is the easiest way for me to listen to y music wherever I am
May 18 06:50:05 <Estel_> Sc0rpius,  are You kidding me? It's not related
May 18 06:50:09 <Sc0rpius> most cars nowadays have receivers with a 3.5 mm input jack on the front
May 18 06:50:16 <Sc0rpius> (and  USB ports too)
May 18 06:50:24 <Estel_> Sc0rpius,  not true, + it needs cables
May 18 06:50:31 <freemangordon> well, seems I am old-fashioned
May 18 06:50:31 <Sc0rpius> just one single cable
May 18 06:50:48 <Estel_> + what's more joyful than disabling those nasty, shitty music in pizza bar
May 18 06:50:49 <Sc0rpius> well it's that the FM band here is BLOATED you can't find any empty space so it always sounds bad
May 18 06:50:54 <freemangordon> not, thats uncomfortable
May 18 06:51:39 <freemangordon> Sc0rpius, here in Sofia there are two almost free freqs, so it works ok
May 18 06:51:40 <Estel_> honestly, with little antenna modification, my N900is able to *replace* FM station with almost no quality loss - of course, locally.
May 18 06:51:55 <Sc0rpius> but anyway I have a really tiny Sandisk Cruzer Fit USB drive (those that are really tiny) with my music and that works in any car
May 18 06:52:18 <Sc0rpius> it's better than waste phone battery which I believe is the most precious thing of the world
May 18 06:52:19 <Estel_> seriously though, fmtx is so cheap and easy to implement by manufacturer
May 18 06:52:29 <Estel_> Sc0rpius,  fear no more
May 18 06:52:38 <Estel_> I'm working on 6000 mAh battery for N900
May 18 06:52:42 <Sc0rpius> :D
May 18 06:52:46 <Venemo_N950> lol
May 18 06:52:50 <Estel_> with almost no more thickness than mugen cover
May 18 06:52:52 <Sc0rpius> but that will make it way heavier than it already is :(
May 18 06:52:56 <Estel_> and I'm serious :P
May 18 06:53:17 <Estel_> frankly, with bigger cover like mugen size I feel it much more comfortable to write
May 18 06:53:23 <Venemo_N950> Estel_, I'd suffice with far less if you managed to fit into the default cover
May 18 06:53:39 <Estel_> into deefault cover You may put only 1500
May 18 06:53:51 <Estel_> but bigger cover is better in every aspect in real life
May 18 06:54:03 <Venemo_N950> not for me
May 18 06:54:08 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer51: belated non-travelling pong
May 18 06:54:09 <Estel_> got place for nice tripod mounting point = finally can use those RAW images capabilities
May 18 06:54:24 <Estel_> writing is ungodly fine
May 18 06:54:36 <Estel_> You can fit slot for regular sized SD card
May 18 06:54:51 <Estel_> I feel strange holding regular size N900 now
May 18 06:55:05 <freemangordon> Estel_, how do you think, is it possible to HW mod n950, to conect the anthenna to fmtx chip?
May 18 06:55:31 <Venemo_N950> freemangordon, forget it
May 18 06:55:32 <Estel_> No idea, as I haven't checked schematics. If it's done godly way, it should be fair easy
May 18 06:55:47 <Estel_> but, make it straight - there IS fmtx but NOT connected = non working?
May 18 06:55:51 <freemangordon> Venemo_N950, why?
May 18 06:56:48 <freemangordon> is it BGA with floating pin?
May 18 06:56:53 <Estel_> so why it's sitting there at all: 0_o they've put it there because they had too many parts in storage?
May 18 06:57:09 <Estel_> maybe it is connected "somewhere"
May 18 06:57:16 <freemangordon> Estel_, it is a part of multifunc chip
May 18 06:57:26 <freemangordon> AFAIK
May 18 06:57:31 <Estel_> I see, but having it there, they haven't connectedd it? seriously?
May 18 06:57:38 <freemangordon> yep
May 18 06:57:40 * Sc0rpius is still thinking about Nemo mobile
May 18 06:57:47 <Estel_> even implied facepalm is too low here
May 18 06:58:25 <Estel_> erm, if it's bga and isn't connected to even dead-end path on PCB, we can forget about it
May 18 06:58:34 <Estel_> it would be like adding more ram to N900 ;)
May 18 06:58:45 <freemangordon> Sc0rpius, ubuntu 12.04 with lxde goes circles around Nemo, I am speechless 
May 18 06:58:55 <Estel_> but, N900 got hirose  connectors, maybe they did something like that
May 18 06:59:00 <Estel_> or at least unsoldered pad
May 18 06:59:18 <freemangordon> yep
May 18 06:59:21 <Estel_> freemangordon,  You said it's almost ready for daily use?
May 18 06:59:27 * Sc0rpius is a XFCE guy
May 18 06:59:30 <freemangordon> 720p?
May 18 06:59:40 <Estel_> someone tried Lubuntu an d it's reportedly very fast
May 18 06:59:53 <Estel_> 720p "patch" (don"t vomit hearing "patch)
May 18 06:59:56 <freemangordon> Sc0rpius, does not matter, you just have to remove that piece of crap called unity :)
May 18 07:00:13 <Sc0rpius> yeah
May 18 07:00:21 <Estel_> freemangordon,  explain something to this noob like myself
May 18 07:00:23 <Sc0rpius> that's the first thing you have to do to have a usable SO
May 18 07:00:25 <Sc0rpius> OS
May 18 07:00:35 <Estel_> why using bloated ubuntu, instead of arch linux or debian itself?
May 18 07:00:52 <Estel_> kernel related thing or what?
May 18 07:00:58 <Sc0rpius> it's easier and better supported
May 18 07:01:06 <freemangordon> and is is really fast, I don't know why, but firefox under ubuntu is 3-4 times faster that firefox under maemo (comparing to the last time i tested it)
May 18 07:01:09 <Estel_> why 12.04 is so unique that it fits
May 18 07:01:14 <Sc0rpius> I think Debian is getting forgotten (like Slackware and Gentoo) and will disappear.
May 18 07:01:22 <Estel_> not true.
May 18 07:01:29 <Estel_> and who said gentoo is forgotten, lol
May 18 07:01:33 <Estel_> as for Debian
May 18 07:01:45 <freemangordon> but we are talking about n900
May 18 07:01:54 <Estel_> it already lived longer than Debora and Ian marriage, so it will probably be here forever
May 18 07:01:56 <Estel_> yes
May 18 07:02:04 <Estel_> so, why 12.04 buntu is ok
May 18 07:02:22 <Estel_> and archilinux that should be faster and AFAIK was also run succesfuly on N900 is not?
May 18 07:02:52 <Estel_> I just wonder what is so special in 12.04 Ubuntu, if it needs removing bloat, instead of using same kernel but for example arch linux
May 18 07:03:16 <freemangordon> because uuntu has the same 12.04 with latest greatest shiny stuff as for desktop. And we all expect a mobile with ubuntu on it
May 18 07:03:18 <Estel_> I'm sure there is reason, thats why I'm asking
May 18 07:03:44 <Estel_> I see, but the first part of sentence isn't also valid for arch linux?
May 18 07:03:51 <Estel_> and why the hell ubuntu on mobile?
May 18 07:03:55 <freemangordon> could be, never tried it
May 18 07:04:06 <Estel_> ubuntu is almost synonym for bloat here - maybe I'm wrong.
May 18 07:04:14 <Sc0rpius> not very wrong.
May 18 07:04:20 <Sc0rpius> it's been bloated lately
May 18 07:04:29 <Estel_> why the hell not Debian on mobile?
May 18 07:04:39 <freemangordon> Estel_, it is unity desktop and gnome 3 that is a synonym for bloatware
May 18 07:04:45 <Estel_> true.
May 18 07:04:52 <freemangordon> because noone will do it
May 18 07:05:00 <Estel_> but still, isn't ubuntu dumbed down compared to Debian?
May 18 07:05:12 <Sc0rpius> I still liku Ubuntu more than Debian
May 18 07:05:14 <freemangordon> could be
May 18 07:05:15 <Sc0rpius> like
May 18 07:05:27 <Estel_> but is it psychological, or some hardware/kernel thing?
May 18 07:05:46 <freemangordon> never tried debian on n900 besides chroot
May 18 07:06:10 <Estel_> well, I suppose that Debian with lxde would be faster than ubuntu with lxde but I may be wrong
May 18 07:06:20 <Sc0rpius> I think it would be the same
May 18 07:06:25 <freemangordon> there should be no difference
May 18 07:06:29 <Sc0rpius> exactly
May 18 07:06:40 <Estel_> now, arch linux with lxde or what should be even less bloated, and I heard that hardwarea acceleration worked fine
May 18 07:06:45 <Estel_> I see.
May 18 07:06:59 <Estel_> BTW, while I'm all for runing desktop systems on N900 or mobile at all
May 18 07:07:13 <Estel_> I think on the longer run, Mer will be more feasible choice
May 18 07:07:20 <freemangordon> it is unity desktop that bring even my 4 phenom cores desktop on it knees
May 18 07:07:25 <Estel_> it's always PITA to adapt desktop systems for Mobile daily use
May 18 07:07:31 <Estel_> lol
May 18 07:07:37 <Sc0rpius> I'm all for running something else than Maemo but mobile oriented (Tizen, Mer or whatever that works and it's new, I feel my N900 is old :(  )
May 18 07:07:41 <freemangordon> well, joking, but still
May 18 07:07:59 <freemangordon> Sc0rpius, maemo is old compared to what?
May 18 07:08:05 <Estel_> Sc0rpius,  I would not mind device with 1GB of RAM and Maemo 5 on it :)
May 18 07:08:10 <Estel_> exactly
May 18 07:08:20 <Estel_> I feel tizen is old before it's born
May 18 07:08:22 <Sc0rpius> to the competition: Android, iOS, etc
May 18 07:08:27 <freemangordon> nah
May 18 07:08:30 <Estel_> android, dont remind me that shit
May 18 07:08:36 <Sc0rpius> for example I wanta  newer browser (microB)
May 18 07:08:39 <Sc0rpius> want a
May 18 07:08:43 <Estel_> lost 3 days brining it to usable state even with help of cyanogen
May 18 07:08:54 <Sc0rpius> I want a new email client
May 18 07:08:56 <Estel_> and still it was shitload to do anything with it
May 18 07:09:07 <Estel_> I persuaded family to sell their androids and buy N900
May 18 07:09:07 <Sc0rpius> and I don't want to code it all myself
May 18 07:09:13 <Sc0rpius> I want to code some, but not all
May 18 07:09:21 <freemangordon> a friend of mine lost an hour trying to gather all my contacts in one place, with no success
May 18 07:09:24 <Estel_> well, buy windows phone
May 18 07:09:31 <freemangordon> that's desire something
May 18 07:09:34 <Estel_> they ensure that You *won't* code anything yourelf
May 18 07:09:52 <Sc0rpius> I like to code my own stuff, that's part of the fun of having a cell phone
May 18 07:10:13 <Estel_> well, IMO FOSS mean that *someone* must code it
May 18 07:10:23 <Estel_> it won't code on it's own... hopefuly?
May 18 07:10:32 <freemangordon> gtg guys, bb
May 18 07:10:37 <Sc0rpius> cya freemangordon 
May 18 07:10:38 <Estel_> see ya freemangordon
May 18 07:10:46 <Sc0rpius> anyway with Mer a door opens
May 18 07:10:52 <Sc0rpius> an opportunity to have a new browser
May 18 07:11:00 <Sc0rpius> with full HTML5 for example
May 18 07:11:06 <Sc0rpius> an opportunity to have a decent email client
May 18 07:11:09 <Sc0rpius> etc
May 18 07:11:09 <Estel_> comparing Mer to have a new browser only sounds funny
May 18 07:11:11 <Sc0rpius> that's what I want
May 18 07:11:17 <Venemo_N950> Mer is awesome, believe me
May 18 07:11:18 <Sc0rpius> hehehe I know I'm being simplist
May 18 07:11:23 <Sicelo> Estel_: i have debian with xfce on my n900
May 18 07:11:30 <Venemo_N950> only thing it needs is a decent ui
May 18 07:11:30 <Estel_> well, I want much moe than that ;)
May 18 07:11:38 <Estel_> Sicelo, hm? not chroot?
May 18 07:11:46 <Sicelo> of course not :P
May 18 07:11:51 <Estel_> and what about hardware acceleration, hardware parts etc?
May 18 07:11:56 <Venemo_N950> lol
May 18 07:12:03 <Sc0rpius> and what about a phone call :S
May 18 07:12:09 <Estel_> ophono?
May 18 07:12:10 <Sicelo> same as ubuntu, lol 
May 18 07:12:25 <Estel_> so what doesn't work compared to Maemo?
May 18 07:12:56 <maian1107> salve
May 18 07:12:58 <Sicelo> http://elinux.org/N900
May 18 07:13:07 <Estel_> thx
May 18 07:13:13 <maian1107> buon Di a tt
May 18 07:14:12 <Sicelo> i'm using nemo's kernel .. most things (that i care about) work. i just wish there was a module for the radio chip :(
May 18 07:15:12 <Sc0rpius> when weill we have the results of the elections?
May 18 07:15:13 <Sc0rpius> will
May 18 07:15:25 <Sicelo> Estel_: that link shows what works when using Debian's upstream kernel.. with Nemo's kernel, you have a bit more of that hardware working
May 18 07:16:10 <Estel_> I see
May 18 07:16:31 <Estel_> damn, I remember they suceed in OpenGLES with arch linux, so it should also work with Debian?
May 18 07:16:55 <Estel_> Sc0rpius,  after elections ends
May 18 07:17:02 <Estel_> it end in 23th may
May 18 07:17:09 <Sc0rpius> oh ok
May 18 07:17:11 <Estel_> Sicelo,  very interesting
May 18 07:17:29 <Estel_> it's pity that there are no modules for making it 100% OS replacement, though :)
May 18 07:18:00 <Estel_> And now You're irc'ing through it, or?
May 18 07:18:39 <Sicelo> pc.. i boot into Debian now and then. and gprs works 
May 18 07:20:08 <Sicelo> what i don't like about it so far is that i don't seem to be able to control power consumption.. screen on or off still draws at least 150mA
May 18 07:20:27 <Estel_> I see
May 18 07:20:36 <Sicelo> perhaps those with ubuntu 12 could show us their consumption
May 18 07:20:54 <Estel_> well, those are reasons why, on long run, mobile oriented yet fully open OS'es like Mer are better choice for handhelds
May 18 07:21:05 <Estel_> it's a pita to reimplement wheel all over again
May 18 07:21:15 <Estel_> if they would only go for .deb instead of rpm...
May 18 07:21:17 <Estel_> ;)
May 18 07:21:31 <Estel_> it would make 3/4 of maemo repo working out of the box
May 18 07:21:44 * Sicelo must still try Nemo ..need an SD card. 
May 18 07:22:10 <Estel_> I wait until it maturates enough to be put on rootfs or emmc without kongo-bongo rituals
May 18 07:22:51 <Sicelo> btw, u-boot is now able to use a root located in emmc without panics?
May 18 07:23:07 <Venemo_N950> brb
May 18 07:23:45 <Sicelo> last time i tried i nearly had to reflash maemo .. because i don't have an sd card, yet. so debian boots of an emmc partition
May 18 07:28:01 <Venemo_N950> hey again
May 18 07:28:30 <Venemo_N950> Estel_, do you know what color of N9s they'll be handing out?
May 18 07:29:58 <Estel_> Sicelo,  afaik U-boot moved much forward lately
May 18 07:30:15 <Estel_> Yet I'm still not sure if it doesn't pose any regressions vs native or multiboot
May 18 07:30:23 <Sicelo> my post asking about that was not answered
May 18 07:30:31 <Estel_> Veggen,  no idea, haven't though about that :P
May 18 07:30:58 <Estel_> s/Veggen/Venemo_N950
May 18 07:31:28 <Venemo_N950> Estel_, can you arrange for a white one for me?
May 18 07:35:06 <Estel_> I can't arrange anything ;)
May 18 07:35:25 <Estel_> but if it would be up to me I would make them available in every color, if it's black.
May 18 07:36:38 <Sicelo> btw, does unity suck on n900 too? i thought ubuntu marketed it as the perfect thing for mobile
May 18 07:37:36 * Sicelo also wonders how 'bloated' KDE's Plasma Active is & how well it would work on N900
May 18 07:38:43 <Estel_> unity suck indeed
May 18 07:40:34 <Sicelo> interesting
May 18 07:41:21 <Sicelo> i've never used ubuntu so far .. but the screenshot on the ubuntu thread looks fine to me 
May 18 07:47:32 <eddyb> KDE > gCrap
May 18 07:49:16 <eddyb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb-wb0h5si0 and that's from August last year
May 18 07:49:31 * dm8tbr can't be bothered with Krap either
May 18 07:50:19 <dm8tbr> so people are trying recent ubuntu on the n900? I hope that there is something aside from the armHF version?
May 18 07:50:35 <Venemo_N950> Estel_, black? :(
May 18 07:52:07 <Venemo_N950> black is such a sad color.
May 18 07:55:34 <Venemo_N950> Sicelo, about your PA question. answer is _very_
May 18 09:50:47 <freemangordon> dm8tbr, the Ubuntu we are trying on n900 is armHF-thumb2 compiled, OMAP3 image from Ubuntu site. Why should we need something aside?
May 18 10:05:35 <ShadowJK> thumb neing broken on the omap3 revision in n900?
May 18 11:04:57 <freemangordon> ShadowJK, not anymore, i.e. latest u-boot has a fix for setting IBE bit in ACR allowing errata 430973 workaround in kernel to do its job. Ubuntu is perfectly stable
May 18 11:08:26 <freemangordon> ShadowJK, here https://gitorious.org/~freemangordon/u-boot-shr/freemangordons-u-boot/commit/409fec178945067233629a471653361b927c05f0
May 18 11:14:54 <DocScrutinizer> freemangordon: I beg to differ on your claim "we all expect a mobile with ubuntu on it"
May 18 11:17:09 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer: nah, you misunderstand me. What I was trying to say is "if there will be a mobile with a full linux distro on it, most probably it will be a mobile with ubuntu". Not that I am holding my breath :)
May 18 11:20:33 <DocScrutinizer> Sicelo: your idea that you'd need a new OS on N900 to get new mail client, browser etc, isn't that a bit incoherent?
May 18 11:21:32 <MohammadAG> well, Nokia did that with WP7...
May 18 11:21:55 <freemangordon> MohammadAG, hi :)
May 18 11:22:04 <MohammadAG> hi
May 18 11:22:07 <freemangordon> How is your SB? :p
May 18 11:22:17 <MohammadAG> fine
May 18 11:29:57 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer,  it was Sc0rpius who wanted new os for new mail client :P
May 18 11:30:14 <Estel_> anyway, I'm testing irc on 16 kbps connection
May 18 11:30:24 <DocScrutinizer> ooops, sorry Sicelo 
May 18 11:30:40 <Estel_> only one thing that is working, even mail get choked
May 18 11:30:54 <DocScrutinizer> IRC working fine on a 300bd connection ;-)
May 18 11:31:26 <Estel_> at least something resisted bloating at base protocol specification
May 18 11:31:45 <Estel_> but, it's still sad that data plans use so msierable speed after limit
May 18 11:31:55 <DocScrutinizer> ouch
May 18 11:31:57 <DocScrutinizer> suckers
May 18 11:31:58 <Estel_> it could be at least 56 kbps like old modem :P
May 18 11:32:01 <Estel_> yea
May 18 11:32:04 <dm8tbr> freemangordon: my understanding is that there are at _least_ _two_ errata for that ARM IP core revision and the fixes are mutually exclusive. if you have knowledge how to work around all of them please share the source as other people would be interested in it too.
May 18 11:32:48 <DocScrutinizer> dm8tbr: I asked him for that as well
May 18 11:38:01 <freemangordon> dm8tbr, I am sure the first one is 430973 and I explained how it os workarounded just a few lines above.
May 18 11:38:28 <freemangordon> But please tell me which is the second one you have in mind that affects n900
May 18 11:39:24 <freemangordon> because AFAIK besides 430973 there are 2, not one errata affecting CortexA8 p0-p2 cores
May 18 11:47:02 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer51, dm8tbr: another one is this http://sourceware.org/ml/binutils/2009-05/msg00343.html and it is workarounded in binutils (as is visible). 
May 18 11:48:12 <Estel_> freemangordon,  do You think that, in future stage, it may become full replacement, or You expect it to be os with "always lacking funcionalities" compared to Maemo = to boot from time to time, instead of Easy Debian
May 18 11:48:32 <Estel_> or even as addition to it
May 18 11:51:14 <DocScrutinizer> Estel_: what's "it" in here?
May 18 11:52:11 <freemangordon> and the third erratum I am aware of(and might affect thumb on n900) is 687067: BTB invalidate by MVA operations will not work when the IBE bit is set. Well, we never hit that as we are not using BTB invalidate by MVA to workaround 430973, but invalidate the whole BTB/BTAC.
May 18 11:55:34 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer, dm8tbr, my understanding is that by enabling errata 430973 workaround and using binutils with workaround for 657417 is enough to have abslutely stable thumb2 on n900
May 18 11:56:06 <freemangordon> Estel_, sorry, I am on a different topic now :)
May 18 11:57:38 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer,  ubuntu on N900
May 18 11:57:52 <Estel_> freemangordon,  no problem, although I don't get what You mean
May 18 11:58:10 <Estel_> = I don't care/wanna talk about it?
May 18 11:58:42 <freemangordon> Estel_, I am discussing n900 and thumb2 in genereal, not Ubuntu 
May 18 11:59:13 <Estel_> I know
May 18 11:59:40 <Estel_> my question was continuation of topic about ubuntu on n900. Well, kinda mental multitasking ;)
May 18 12:02:48 <DocScrutinizer> **VOTE!** http://bit.ly/JmchJM
May 18 12:06:07 <freemangordon> Estel_: ok, but as there is a(long standing) dispute between me and some people here if it is posible to have stable thumb2 on n900, I would prefer to end that once and for all. Or to have proof that I am wrong(and stupid :) ).
May 18 12:14:00 <DocScrutinizer> freemangordon: there's basically no dispute about whether it's possible, the dispute is about how to prove it's working
May 18 12:14:20 <DocScrutinizer> WFM is no proof
May 18 12:14:59 <DocScrutinizer> WFM*50 still isn't, given the nature of the errata
May 18 12:15:56 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer,you want me to prove TI's statement?
May 18 12:17:20 <DocScrutinizer> freemangordon: I explained to you already 5 times too often the proper way to do. You need a testbed that's reproducing the error, and on this testbed you apply your fix and show it's effective
May 18 12:18:24 <DocScrutinizer> ideally you trace the whole shit with gdb or whatever, and explain the observations made and what your fix is doing, how that shows up in trace and why it's generally valid and working
May 18 12:19:01 <DocScrutinizer> or you refer to somebody else's work who already done this
May 18 12:19:30 <freemangordon> yes, and the testbed is Ubuntu, being thumb2-compiled both kernel and userspace. Without IBE bit properly set (as in latest u-boot) and errata 430973 workaround enabled in kernel it crashes in a matter of seconds   
May 18 12:20:19 <freemangordon> crashes as SIGILL, which is what happens when you try to execute thumb2 instruction in ARM context
May 18 12:21:05 <freemangordon> with the above stuff enabled, it works for hours without a single crash (until battery dies)
May 18 12:21:09 <DocScrutinizer> without a evaluation considering each single erratum in a monitored bad and fixed run, it's still worthless, as it might just reduce probability of error happening, or even just fix one of the two errata
May 18 12:21:43 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer, which are those erratas you are reffering to?
May 18 12:22:09 <DocScrutinizer> the ones you're fixing
May 18 12:24:00 <freemangordon> so, you want me to prove that errata workarounds, one from TI and another from gurus developing binutils, do what their authors tell us? 
May 18 12:25:51 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer, BTW i really would like to have a comments from someone besides you, like stskeeps or dm8tbr
May 18 12:26:22 <DocScrutinizer> freemangordon: you're obviously not willing to listen
May 18 12:26:43 <DocScrutinizer> [2012-05-18 14:19:00] <DocScrutinizer> or you refer to somebody else's work who already done this
May 18 12:31:30 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer, the RX51 code in u-boot for enabling IBE bit is almost identical to the code used for BB. The same for the kernel
May 18 12:33:49 <LaoLang_coo_> I find that my N900's phone's signal is not good, is it normal?
May 18 12:34:43 <LaoLang_coo_> When calling, I can't hear from others clearly sometimes
May 18 12:34:57 <freemangordon> LaoLang_coo_, increase your volume
May 18 12:35:21 <freemangordon> well, not yours but speakers volume
May 18 12:35:39 <Macer> so
May 18 12:35:42 <Macer> FB hits 400 today?
May 18 12:35:44 <Macer> heh
May 18 12:35:45 <LaoLang_coo_> freemangordon, yes, I've set it to the maximum
May 18 12:36:01 <Macer> LaoLang_coo_: probably the sim reader going bad :-P
May 18 12:36:22 <freemangordon> it could be a bad coverage as well
May 18 12:36:53 <dm8tbr> I've seen thumb2 code run for hours and then suddenly explode. I'm not impressed and would rather see this confirmed by someone who understands this like koen or rcn-ee or mru
May 18 12:37:23 <LaoLang_coo_> Macer, sim reader? maybe speaker does :)
May 18 12:38:38 <freemangordon> dm8tbr, where did you see and which code? Was it on n900 or on BB? And I agree this should be confirmed or not by someone who understands the matter, any contacts? IRC channel?
May 18 12:40:44 <dm8tbr> freemangordon: IIRC I discussed this with koen, rcn-ee and mru back then on #beagle and the bottom line was 'fixes are mutually exclusive, don't use thumb2 on old omap3 silicon'
May 18 12:41:05 <dm8tbr> irclogs probably exist
May 18 12:44:09 <freemangordon> dm8tbr, and reading through those logs which you (or stskeeps) pointed me to the last time we dscussed that, lead me to believe, that might be you have made a little mistake re mutualy exclusive workarounds - we never hit 687067
May 18 12:45:23 <freemangordon> nowhere in kernel is executed "BTB invalidate by MVA" instruction
May 18 12:46:10 <freemangordon> 430973 is workarounded by clearing the whole BTB/BTAC, not by address
May 18 12:47:04 * dm8tbr does not understand the underlying details, so it would be better to discuss them wit someone who does
May 18 12:47:53 <freemangordon> And I will appreciate if you give me some hand on finding those knowledgable ones
May 18 12:48:53 <dm8tbr> I pointed out three people and a channel
May 18 12:49:02 <freemangordon> ok, thanks
May 18 12:49:34 <dm8tbr> IIRC mru even works for ARM nowadays
May 18 12:50:13 <freemangordon> great, will try to reach them on #beagle later
May 18 13:15:05 * merlin1991 wonders when the "community awards" from the device seeding activity are going to get rolling
May 18 13:17:50 <MohammadAG> you deserve one really
May 18 13:17:59 <freemangordon> merlin1991, when there is a new council
May 18 13:18:43 <merlin1991> MohammadAG: gotta love how you jump to conclusions :D
May 18 13:18:53 <freemangordon> It will be up to them to decide who deserves such, so think twice before voting :P
May 18 13:20:05 <merlin1991> dang I should asked each concil member beforehand "would you give merlin1991 a n950 as a community award" ;)
May 18 13:21:16 <freemangordon> you already voted? damn, how could you do this before assuring your n950 :P
May 18 13:21:35 <MohammadAG> N9 ftw
May 18 13:21:36 <Macer> heh
May 18 13:21:48 <Macer> does N9 support att LTE?
May 18 13:22:06 <freemangordon> MohammadAG, no, both N9 and N950, check on mailinglist and TMO threads
May 18 13:22:48 <Macer> i wonder if the fail rates for N9s and N950s are just as high as an N900
May 18 13:25:12 <MohammadAG> freemangordon, I know, I just think the N9's better at taking hits
May 18 13:25:20 <MohammadAG> it's more sturdy
May 18 13:25:26 <MohammadAG> sturdier even
May 18 13:25:54 <Estel_> N950 is better investment
May 18 13:26:13 <RST38h> Doesn't "investment" mean you can buy it?
May 18 13:26:13 <merlin1991> Estel_: if you get it for free it's no investment ;)
May 18 13:26:15 <Estel_> first of all, non-monoblock construction = easier hardware mods
May 18 13:26:24 <Estel_> 2nd, qgil stated it will be owned now, now lend
May 18 13:26:27 <Estel_> not exactly
May 18 13:26:34 <Estel_> considering low ammouint of N950
May 18 13:26:42 <RST38h> N950 is more fragile and a scratch magnet
May 18 13:26:42 <MohammadAG> Just get a drill and drill NOT FOR SALE on the N9
May 18 13:26:47 <Estel_> 300 if I count correctly
May 18 13:26:53 <MohammadAG> 340 as of now
May 18 13:27:00 <Estel_> I see
May 18 13:27:02 <MohammadAG> 342 if you count the 3 I got
May 18 13:27:08 <merlin1991> hrhr
May 18 13:27:08 <Estel_> it's kinda collector device
May 18 13:27:12 <Estel_> You can sell it after 10 years
May 18 13:27:16 <Estel_> on auction, lol
May 18 13:27:18 <MohammadAG> You can't sell it
May 18 13:27:33 <Estel_> this time, You can, not that I encourage doing so
May 18 13:27:34 <MohammadAG> I don't recall the agreement saying Expires in 2021 :p
May 18 13:27:38 <merlin1991> MohammadAG: qgill state that the ones of the current programm are going to be "owned"
May 18 13:27:45 <MohammadAG> merlin1991, then they're 40 :p
May 18 13:27:47 <Estel_> yep.
May 18 13:27:54 <merlin1991> so ofc you can't sell yours, but the new lucky users might
May 18 13:27:56 <Estel_> this time no lending
May 18 13:28:00 <Estel_> even better.
May 18 13:28:06 <MohammadAG> nanananana, no NOT FOR SALE on the back :p
May 18 13:28:10 <Estel_> yea.
May 18 13:28:18 <Estel_> not to mention that I'm sure current "lend" will transfer to "own" too.
May 18 13:28:24 <Estel_> yea
May 18 13:28:33 <MohammadAG> kinda doubt it
May 18 13:28:39 <Estel_> yesterday I purchased nice rare Tori Amos promo single
May 18 13:28:42 <MohammadAG> not that I care, I still have the 3310
May 18 13:28:44 <Estel_> with not for sale mark
May 18 13:28:49 <Estel_> :)
May 18 13:29:04 <Estel_> anyway, I preffer N950 screen
May 18 13:29:16 <Estel_> + there was few other things that I don't recall
May 18 13:29:20 <Estel_> removable battery for sure
May 18 13:29:59 <Estel_> N9 got NFC which I don't care for
May 18 13:29:59 <Estel_> and damn monoblock... and damn pentile screen, hate reading on them
May 18 13:30:17 <merlin1991> dunno I love the N9 screen
May 18 13:30:27 <Estel_> gustas non discutante ;)
May 18 13:30:43 <merlin1991> and nfc is nice (when I've finsihed my nfc-o-rama application)
May 18 13:30:49 <Estel_> but technical disadvantages and advantages of pentile are known
May 18 13:30:53 <merlin1991> but I just hate typing with the on screen keyboard on the console
May 18 13:31:04 <Estel_> well, obvious con
May 18 13:31:07 <merlin1991> and thats my #1 activity when I actually develop
May 18 13:31:17 <Estel_> buy bluetooth one and slider
May 18 13:31:48 <Estel_> You know what? I still preffer N900. Who invented such device as N9(50) witohut sd card slot?!
May 18 13:31:48 <MohammadAG> is the Lumia 800 pentile?
May 18 13:31:54 <freemangordon> who cares
May 18 13:31:59 <Estel_> MohammadAG,  yep.
May 18 13:32:09 <MohammadAG> then I don't care if it's pentile :p
May 18 13:32:23 <freemangordon> n950 does not have sdcard slot? WTF?
May 18 13:32:27 <Estel_> Who havent connected fmtx to antenna? :P
May 18 13:32:31 <Estel_> BTW
May 18 13:32:34 <MohammadAG> freemangordon, no
May 18 13:32:46 <Estel_> freemangordon,  N9 also lack it
May 18 13:33:05 <freemangordon> I was aware for N9, but N950?!?
May 18 13:33:13 <Estel_> freemangordon,  You're limited to miserable... 16GB, right?
May 18 13:33:58 <freemangordon> hmm, I am not, right now I have 48 and plan to buy 64 or 128 UHC
May 18 13:34:08 <freemangordon> UHS
May 18 13:34:31 <freemangordon> or whatever whas the signiture for those new cards
May 18 13:34:31 <Estel_> ok, not exactly You
May 18 13:34:32 <Estel_> I don't plan to do it due to miserable random I/O speeds on SDXC
May 18 13:34:44 <Estel_> preffering to use class 4 sandisk 8GB
May 18 13:34:48 <Estel_> and swap there
May 18 13:34:58 <Estel_> yet I agree that 64 or 128 is great for storage
May 18 13:35:08 <freemangordon> hmm sandisk 64 GB should be fast even for random access
May 18 13:35:19 <Estel_> and they're so small, that You can keep backup one inside cover of size like mugen one
May 18 13:35:37 <Estel_> any benchmarks? I've heard they're like class 6-10 tendency
May 18 13:35:38 <freemangordon> they have a special "mobile" edition, optimized for randowm writes AFAIK
May 18 13:35:44 <Estel_> I.e. better sequential
May 18 13:35:47 <Estel_> worse random
May 18 13:35:52 <Estel_> I see.
May 18 13:35:57 <Estel_> good to know
May 18 13:36:20 <Estel_> BTW N900 FTW, I'm currently moddong mugen cover to fit two 18650 = 6000 mAh of true capacity
May 18 13:36:33 <Estel_> next thing I'll design it for my alum body replacement
May 18 13:36:43 <Estel_> It doesn't make it much thicker than mugen cover
May 18 13:36:48 <Estel_> just few milimeters.
May 18 13:37:25 <Estel_> In times when most people need to charge device every night at best...
May 18 13:37:37 <Estel_> it's going to be like perpetum mobile :P
May 18 13:37:57 <Estel_> You could fool  someone into thinking that it's reclaiming power from kinetic energy of moving
May 18 13:38:26 <Estel_> No, seriously, my soldering iron is so horny waiting for 3000 mAh 18650's to arrive
May 18 13:38:58 <ArkanoiD_> haha
May 18 13:39:02 <Estel_> freemangordon,  btw are You going to apply for community awards N950?
May 18 13:39:10 <ArkanoiD_> actually mugen cover is engineering and design disaster
May 18 13:39:40 <Estel_> actually mugen cover is just first step, I plan to include slot for dual-18650 in full body replacement
May 18 13:39:58 <k273> Estel_: I'm still waiting for that battery too here
May 18 13:39:59 <Estel_> BTW I know, I've torn mugen cover apart to include camera slider
May 18 13:40:04 <Estel_> :)
May 18 13:40:12 <RST38h> I hope you are making this full body replacement out of mahogany
May 18 13:40:19 <Estel_> ordered already?
May 18 13:40:25 <freemangordon> Estel_, yes, I think to apply
May 18 13:40:27 <Estel_> maho what? ;)
May 18 13:40:34 <Estel_> good idea, I think.
May 18 13:40:39 <Estel_> You're getting one for sure
May 18 13:40:46 <freemangordon> well, lets see
May 18 13:41:01 <freemangordon> :)
May 18 13:41:17 <Estel_> :) I hope kp wont stall after that :P
May 18 13:41:33 <freemangordon> nah, don't worry
May 18 13:41:39 <Estel_> hey, there is chance that I'll be part of comitee that grant it
May 18 13:41:48 <Estel_> could do little sabotage
May 18 13:41:52 <Estel_> (joking)
May 18 13:41:53 <freemangordon> yes, there is 
May 18 13:42:07 <merlin1991> hm bribing the judges sounds like a plan ;)
May 18 13:42:12 <Estel_> ;)
May 18 13:42:51 <freemangordon> BTW the only way I can switch to anything but N900 as a praimary device is new device with FMTX
May 18 13:43:07 <freemangordon> which is nowhere to be seen
May 18 13:43:12 <Estel_> yea, imagine that "Year 2078, one of few remaining N950's sold by grandsom of famous hacker, "freemangordon" on auction for record sum of..."
May 18 13:43:21 <freemangordon> :D:D:D
May 18 13:43:43 <k273> XD
May 18 13:43:47 <Estel_> "N950, initially produced in quantity of only 340, by soon deceased legendary company Nokia..."
May 18 13:44:10 <freemangordon> :(
May 18 13:45:21 <Estel_> "...Nokia, as a company that introduced first mobile phone in the mass market, got huge cult following, and become prime case of decision fail on economy Uni's since then"
May 18 13:45:23 <Estel_> ok, ok
May 18 13:45:54 <Estel_> time to go back into present (tense :P)
May 18 13:46:04 <merlin1991> freemangordon: quick question kernel related, the iptables nat module, is there a switch for it in the kernel config?
May 18 13:51:03 <Estel_> merlin1991,  aren't You going to try gtting device in coding competition or what?
May 18 13:51:33 <Estel_> freemangordon,  doesn't Your patches to phoneME have QT code inside?
May 18 13:52:36 <Estel_> Community Awards category is going to have much more candidates than devices :/ While I'm sure You both deserve one, it eliminates other people, also deserving it. Nzot that it's Your fault, but I'm thinking if Your work shouldn't be recognized in different, less crowded area.
May 18 13:52:42 <Estel_> You can always apply for both
May 18 13:52:57 <Estel_> there is a rule to get only one N950 by same person, so
May 18 13:53:17 <Estel_> You don't lose anything, but gain possibility of getting device in less crowded category
May 18 13:54:08 <Estel_> it would be pity, if all qt-related awards would went to "unserious" joke apps, that are going to be left without further development just after receiving device.
May 18 13:56:35 <freemangordon> Estel_, TBH i don't really care that much if I will get a device or not, after all if me, merlin1991, Pali and several other does not deserve those devices then I am ok, so be it. 
May 18 13:57:02 <Estel_> the thing is that You all deserve them ;)
May 18 13:57:02 <freemangordon> And I am not going to "cheat" by applying to a less crowded category, just in case
May 18 13:57:15 <Estel_> I mean slightly different thing
May 18 13:57:28 <Estel_> there are 10 N950 for community awards
May 18 13:57:32 <freemangordon> I got it
May 18 13:57:32 <Estel_> and 15 N9
May 18 13:57:52 <Estel_> I thyink that all those "QT" cateogires are...
May 18 13:58:08 <Estel_> well, probably shouldn't say this as candidate, but I'm honest no matter what
May 18 13:58:12 <Estel_> marketing bullshit
May 18 13:58:33 <freemangordon> so what? if I am not in those 10 or those 25, so be it, really.
May 18 13:58:55 <Estel_> and considering, that there is total 20 N950 and 30 N9 for 2 QT cateogies, many of them are going to land in hand of random people
May 18 13:59:01 <Estel_> not deserving it IMO
May 18 13:59:05 <Estel_> on the other hand
May 18 13:59:19 <Estel_> You Pali merlin ect are going to dominate community awards :P
May 18 13:59:51 <Estel_> applying also in less crowded category and receiving device would free "slot" in community awards
May 18 13:59:57 <Estel_> for other people too.
May 18 14:00:02 <Estel_> eh, scratch that
May 18 14:00:09 <freemangordon> I wouldn't leave all the projects I am involved and waste my time developing some shiny crap just for the idea
May 18 14:00:13 <Estel_> explaining my twisted ideas is too much hassle :P
May 18 14:00:18 <Estel_> I see
May 18 14:00:45 <Estel_> well, I rather though about submitting something that is work in progress just now, but, You're probably right
May 18 14:01:18 <Estel_> I think I'm already thinking about hard decisions ;)
May 18 14:01:41 <Estel_> if it would depend on me I would give half of pool to Community Awards
May 18 14:01:54 <Estel_> after all it's first time we're going to have something like that
May 18 14:01:54 <freemangordon> BTW DavyP is most probably eligable as a candidate for Qt categories, his frontend is all Qt
May 18 14:02:03 <Estel_> coding competition is here every year
May 18 14:02:13 <Estel_> we need to tell him about it, I'll do it.
May 18 14:02:18 <freemangordon> yeah
May 18 14:02:21 <freemangordon> good idea
May 18 14:09:22 <Estel_> btw are schematics for N950/N9 available just like for N900?
May 18 14:09:42 <Estel_> someone already dissasembled N950 and did hi-res photos like DocScrutinizer with N900?
May 18 14:10:05 <Estel_> I would like to trace the fmtx issue
May 18 14:13:57 <Estel_> hey, who from cssu team worked on tv applet?
May 18 14:14:09 <merlin1991> mostly pali afaik
May 18 14:14:37 <Estel_> I have some idea, that came to my mind ages ago, and I always forget to ask. It's related to N900 audio jack resistance meter, not tv out directly
May 18 14:14:49 <Estel_> merlin1991,  maybe You know how it works exacdtly, not only Pali?
May 18 14:15:09 <Estel_> IIUC, it's like resistance ~0 = headphones
May 18 14:15:18 <Estel_> (between 4th pin and mass)
May 18 14:15:34 <Estel_> resistance  infinite = microphone
May 18 14:15:35 <merlin1991> hal abstracts that away for us
May 18 14:15:49 <Estel_> reistance ~ 75 ohm = tv-out
May 18 14:15:50 <Estel_> hm
May 18 14:15:58 <Estel_> so, it's no way to get readings?
May 18 14:16:18 <Estel_> I just wonder if it's possible to get exact value detected
May 18 14:16:44 <merlin1991> better ask pali
May 18 14:16:49 <merlin1991> I only know the top level part :D
May 18 14:16:56 <Estel_> it would allow us to write very simple program, that "mimics" one function of multimeter
May 18 14:17:00 <Estel_> reistance meter :P
May 18 14:17:06 <Estel_> ok
May 18 14:17:13 <Estel_> thank, I'll catch him
May 18 14:17:46 <Estel_> useful for testing broken connections etc. Require only simple add-on - modified cable from old headphones :P
May 18 14:17:55 <Estel_> as a sense probes
May 18 14:18:33 <Estel_> would allow to test resistance, test broken connection (sound beeping when resistance less than 5 ohm) and testing diodes
May 18 14:18:36 <jaska> use it to add a three-state input device!
May 18 14:18:45 <jaska> or can it measure arbitrary resistance?
May 18 14:18:59 <Estel_> I think it can, thats why I'm asking
May 18 14:19:28 <Estel_> but if hal hides it, it's at least possible to make beeping probe for "connect" (resistance close to 0)
May 18 14:19:38 <Estel_> or not connected, or 75 ohm ;)
May 18 14:19:52 <Estel_> still usefull for testing cables for breakage and diodes
May 18 14:20:02 <Estel_> but of course, direct ohm values would be better
May 18 14:20:35 <Estel_> if it know 75 ohm reistance I bet it senses it abstract values in quite wide range
May 18 14:20:47 <Estel_> but hal may be hiding it, who knows. Need to ask pali
May 18 14:21:35 <Estel_> anyway, supercool to probe elements via strange cable with jack @ one end connected to N900
May 18 14:21:45 <Estel_> and two "nails" on opposite side
May 18 14:21:58 <Estel_> like in multimeter
May 18 14:22:28 <Estel_> well, a ohm meter that You always have with Yourself :P
May 18 14:22:36 <Estel_> mcgyver would be envy
May 18 14:23:24 <Estel_> next step - mini soldering iron powered from N900's battery :P
May 18 14:23:57 <Estel_> + robotic arm and programs to allow N900 solder down it's own usb port
May 18 14:24:28 <Estel_> after installation, it dissasembles itself, reinforce usb port like in tmo instructions
May 18 14:24:33 <freemangordon> merlin1991, will you rephrase your question re nat, what switch are you looking for?
May 18 14:24:39 <Estel_> be sure to have battery fully charged before installation :P
May 18 14:25:16 <merlin1991> freemangordon: there's an iptables module for the nat table, and I was wondering if there exists a config switch to build it or not
May 18 14:26:12 <freemangordon> merlin1991, there should be one, yes, which kernel you have in mind
May 18 14:26:28 <merlin1991> actually harmattan kernel :D
May 18 14:26:33 <merlin1991> and I couldn't find one :/
May 18 14:26:40 <freemangordon> CONFIG_NF_NAT=m
May 18 14:26:54 <freemangordon> CONFIG_IP_NF_MANGLE=m
May 18 14:27:00 <freemangordon> that is from KP50
May 18 14:27:11 <freemangordon> but should be the same on harmattan kernel
May 18 14:27:14 * merlin1991 looks into harm kernel sources
May 18 14:27:43 <freemangordon> merlin1991, you already have n950 :P
May 18 14:27:51 <freemangordon> ?
May 18 14:28:21 <merlin1991> nope
May 18 14:28:22 <merlin1991> n9
May 18 14:28:46 <merlin1991> but I want a n950 (I want a physical keyboard)
May 18 14:29:29 <freemangordon> so, are those swithces in RMXXX_defconfig? or whatever RX/M is N9 code
May 18 14:30:28 <merlin1991> still booting dev notebook ;)
May 18 14:31:25 <freemangordon> aah, ok. merlin1991, I am leaving my office on my way home, won't be available next hour or so.
May 18 14:31:36 <freemangordon> bb for now
May 18 14:32:38 <merlin1991> CONFIG_IP_NF_MANGLE is disabled
May 18 14:32:45 <merlin1991> and CONFIG_NF_NAT does not exist
May 18 14:32:46 <merlin1991> dang
May 18 14:57:02 <HRH_H_Crab> crikey whichever of you lot does the open media player - noone can accuse you of letting the grass grow under your feet!
May 18 15:04:55 <DocScrutinizer> Estel_: (someone already dissasembled N950) not afaik
May 18 15:05:12 <DocScrutinizer> might do it today, this weekend, or next year ;-D
May 18 15:05:53 <DocScrutinizer> tbh I'm a bit reluctant cause we definitely can't replace broken N950
May 18 15:06:13 <DocScrutinizer> and it's a loaner after all
May 18 15:08:33 <DocScrutinizer> it gave me nausea and a broken flat plastic ribbon connector when I *completely* disassembled the mainboard halv of N900. It might kill me to do same with a device that's - by mere math - ~3 mio USD / device
May 18 15:09:31 <DocScrutinizer> (a funny little math trick, dividing maemo R&D total costs by number of deployed N950)
May 18 15:19:59 <infobot> DocScrutinizer: infobot joined!
May 18 16:41:01 <felipec> anybody knows how to enable usb tethering from the command line? (no NetworkManager)
May 18 16:43:22 <freemangordon> modprobe g_ether
May 18 16:43:28 <freemangordon> ifup usb0
May 18 16:43:42 <freemangordon> iptables ...
May 18 16:43:53 <freemangordon> felipec ^^^
May 18 16:45:52 <felipec> freemangordon: you mean modprobe g_ether on the device?
May 18 16:46:53 <freemangordon> yep
May 18 16:47:02 <felipec> how does NetworkManager does it? iptables?
May 18 16:47:28 <freemangordon> maybe you should do rmmod g_file_storage or g_nokia before modprobing
May 18 16:47:41 <felipec> freemangordon: 'Sync and connect' (on the N9) does that
May 18 16:47:42 <freemangordon> NetworkManager? hmm, which device is that?
May 18 16:48:21 <felipec> freemangordon: http://projects.gnome.org/NetworkManager/
May 18 16:48:28 <freemangordon> but for sure it is done with iptables on the host machine afaik
May 18 16:48:50 <felipec> hmm, I don't even have iptables here
May 18 16:49:31 <freemangordon> aah, there is a kernel module, give me a second to find his name
May 18 16:49:38 <freemangordon> *its
May 18 16:49:59 <felipec> freemangordon: I know how to use iptables, I just don't think it's needed
May 18 16:50:38 <felipec> I guess I'll install networkmanager and see what it does
May 18 16:51:14 <freemangordon> maybe it uses joikuspot
May 18 16:51:51 <ioan> hi. A while ago I had something installed on my N900 that made google maps open in full screen and with GPS support... I had to load a fresh firmware and I lost that setting and now I don't know what it was... anyone knows what I'm talking about?
May 18 16:52:01 <felipec> freemangordon: no, that needs to be manually launched from the device
May 18 16:54:39 <freemangordon> felipec, what about /network/interfaces
May 18 16:54:51 <freemangordon> make usb0 autostart with a static ip
May 18 16:55:41 <freemangordon> sorry , i mean /etc/network/interfaces
May 18 16:55:59 <felipec> freemangordon: I can use usb0, just not to share the Internet
May 18 16:59:40 <r00t|home> felipec: i set up sharing the internet connetion via bluetooth on my n900...
May 18 17:01:19 <merlin1991> felipe`: I have a script for that on my n900
May 18 17:01:22 <merlin1991> let me dig it up
May 18 17:09:06 <merlin1991> felipe`: http://paste.debian.net/169441/
May 18 17:11:25 <merlin1991> felipe`:  and this to stop everything that was running http://paste.debian.net/169442/
May 18 17:12:22 <freemangordon> merlin1991, it is felipec :p
May 18 17:12:31 <merlin1991> dang autocomplete
May 18 17:12:35 <merlin1991> felipec: see above :D
May 18 17:12:39 <r00t|home> <-- felipec has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
May 18 17:12:45 <r00t|home> ah, he's back
May 18 17:12:48 <merlin1991> yep
May 18 17:13:13 <r00t|home> felipec: i have a script to set up sharing the internet connetion via bluetooth on my n900...
May 18 17:14:12 * merlin1991 still loves the fact that his script does everything, including a dhcp server
May 18 17:14:41 <felipec> r00t|home: AFAICS the N9 already has dhcp server
May 18 17:15:11 <merlin1991> felipec: above script is for the n900, won't work on n9 due to missing iptables
May 18 17:17:53 * freemangordon hates the fact that lots of people say "thumb2 is broken on n900, you can't workaround that", but actually noone gives him even a bit of information
May 18 17:23:14 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer, did you read the latest logs on #beagle?
May 18 17:31:53 <DocScrutinizer> nope
May 18 17:32:04 <DocScrutinizer> freemangordon: please point me to some log
May 18 17:33:24 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer, NFC how to do it, but a sort of "conversation" starts with "[19:30] <freemangordon> Hi there."
May 18 17:34:06 <freemangordon> I asked, as I saw you joining
May 18 17:46:10 <Neutron_> hello, I installed easy debian some time ago, and it is asking me for a root password, I can't remember having added one myself
May 18 17:46:28 <Neutron_> I am not 100% sure which build I am using.. any suggestions?
May 18 17:47:41 <DocScrutinizer> freemangordon: http://www.google.de/search?q=<freemangordon>+Hi+there  sure thing
May 18 17:56:54 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer, here http://pastebin.com/WSvGDZXk
May 18 18:02:43 <MrPingu> Neutron_ your default ssh password, probably?
May 18 18:06:03 <Neutron_> MrPingu: I never set one, maybe Qole set one for the image
May 18 18:06:39 <freemangordon> Neutron_, your root password under Maemo
May 18 18:07:05 <freemangordon> i.e. the one you use to connect to device via ssh
May 18 18:17:42 <Neutron_> ah I don't have such a thing, I just do "sudo gainroot" and it gives me root access without password
May 18 18:26:26 <MrPingu> Strange, it shouldn't have a password? I still use an older image though
May 18 19:19:16 <vi__> freemangordon: 
May 18 19:19:37 <vi__> freemangordon: good evening sir, may I use 0 minutes of your time?
May 18 19:19:44 <freemangordon> sure
May 18 19:20:01 <freemangordon> BTW why the hell everyone is calling me sir?
May 18 19:20:17 <freemangordon> vi__ ^^^
May 18 19:21:19 <vi__> lols
May 18 19:21:43 <vi__> I was just using an edwardian gentleman angle
May 18 19:21:53 <vi__> as for everyone else NFC
May 18 19:21:58 <freemangordon> :D
May 18 19:22:09 <vi__> I can address you as fuck face if you wish?
May 18 19:22:17 <freemangordon> nah, sir is better
May 18 19:23:22 <freemangordon> vi__: so, what is your question?
May 18 19:23:32 <vi__> actually, my friend has just bought me a single malt whisky.  I may be some moments.
May 18 19:23:54 <vi__> Excuse me if you will good sir, I may take my leave.
May 18 20:51:55 <spark666> its there a way to make flash work on opera?or it works just in default maemo browser?
May 18 21:15:32 <MrPingu> Spark666 , I don't think so 
May 18 21:16:03 <spark666> MrPingu: :(
May 18 21:16:23 <spark666> opera its more fast and touchscreen made for :P
May 18 21:18:45 <MrPingu> It's totally  optimized for mobile devices, for sure
May 18 21:20:14 <spark666> maybe one day the community will port the flash to opera :P
May 18 21:22:39 <Sicelo> not impossible, but highly improbable
May 18 21:22:56 <MrPingu> Let's hope for it ;)
May 18 21:23:43 <spark666> :D
May 18 21:24:27 <MrPingu> Been playing with xbindkeys and I have some nice keyboard shortcuts now :D
May 18 21:25:19 <spark666> tell us about it :P
May 18 21:26:35 <MrPingu> I installed app-search-app and binded it to Shift + Fn + Up arrow
May 18 21:27:08 <MrPingu> when I press that combination I get a pop up list with app selector ;)
May 18 21:27:46 <spark666> very nice
May 18 21:28:17 <spark666> where should i write the aliases in ash?
May 18 21:28:38 <MrPingu> lemme search...
May 18 21:29:03 <MrPingu> I have modified it a bit...
May 18 21:29:51 <MrPingu> Isn't it .profile file?
May 18 21:33:18 <spark666> i have no idea,i know in bash its in .bashrc
May 18 21:37:51 <MrPingu> ah bad internet again =(
May 18 21:38:12 <MrPingu> for user it's .profile
May 18 21:38:17 <MrPingu> for root it's .bashr
May 18 21:38:30 <MrPingu> * .bashrc
May 18 21:38:52 <MrPingu> I had to create .profile in /home/user/
May 18 21:39:11 <spark666> tnx very much :D
May 18 21:39:45 <MrPingu> You can also change your PS1 to your own likings ;)
May 18 21:40:02 <spark666> im trying to get rid of the ash prompt
May 18 21:40:17 <MrPingu> What do you mean?
May 18 21:40:42 <MrPingu> That busybox blabla?
May 18 21:40:47 <Hurrian> use bash
May 18 21:40:54 <spark666> BusyBox v1.20.0 (Debian 1.20.0power1) built-in shell (ash)
May 18 21:41:15 <spark666> enter help ...
May 18 21:41:33 <spark666> yes that one
May 18 21:41:33 <Hurrian> sudo apt-get install bash4
May 18 21:41:44 <MrPingu> Why not bash3?
May 18 21:41:44 <Hurrian> ln -s /bin/bash4 /bin/bash
May 18 21:42:10 <MrPingu> Bash3 can even replace busybox 
May 18 21:42:31 <MrPingu> by runing bash-setup
May 18 21:42:42 <spark666> dunno what to say
May 18 21:43:04 <MrPingu> It was meant for Hurrian ;)
May 18 21:43:13 <Hurrian> MrPingu, replace busybox as in replace all users' shell?
May 18 21:43:27 <DocScrutinizer> MrPingu: yes, and it can eat you rcat
May 18 21:43:28 <Hurrian> remove busybox and use coreutils?
May 18 21:43:31 <spark666> afaik bash can replace only for root
May 18 21:43:56 <MrPingu> It can replace user and root
May 18 21:44:13 <DocScrutinizer> yes, as it will make device bootloop if you do that for user: user
May 18 21:44:16 <MrPingu> but right now I have only busybox installed
May 18 21:44:38 <DocScrutinizer> at least that's the tale
May 18 21:44:44 <Hurrian> DocScrutinizer, /bin/bash as shell works fine for root and user
May 18 21:44:50 <MrPingu> Docscrutinizer I replaced it for users also for some time
May 18 21:44:58 <Hurrian> not trying anything else at the moment
May 18 21:45:00 <MrPingu> No bootloop
May 18 21:45:02 <DocScrutinizer> as long as all your coreutils in fact are still busybox, yes
May 18 21:45:09 <spark666> i installed enchanced busybox
May 18 21:45:24 <MrPingu> When you link to gnu-coreutils
May 18 21:45:31 <MrPingu> well then the fun is on
May 18 21:46:13 <MrPingu> I miss the !! function of bash, actually 
May 18 21:46:43 <Hurrian> MrPingu, I think another problem is the coreutils being on /opt
May 18 21:47:43 <MrPingu> What will happen if we overwrite them in NAND?
May 18 21:48:09 <DocScrutinizer> Hurrian: o.O ??
May 18 21:49:13 <DocScrutinizer> Hurrian: actually, you might have a point there
May 18 21:49:48 <MrPingu> Who got the ballz to test that point? :P
May 18 21:49:59 <DocScrutinizer> what for?
May 18 21:50:15 <DocScrutinizer> ~ # bash
May 18 21:50:17 <DocScrutinizer> IroN900:~# which ls
May 18 21:50:18 <DocScrutinizer> /usr/bin/gnu/ls
May 18 21:50:20 <DocScrutinizer> IroN900:~# ls -l `which ls`
May 18 21:50:21 <DocScrutinizer> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 25 2010-07-26 23:57 /usr/bin/gnu/ls -> /opt/maemo/usr/bin/gnu/ls
May 18 21:51:02 <DocScrutinizer> ~jrtools
May 18 21:51:04 <infobot> somebody said jrtools was http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
May 18 21:53:29 <Sicelo> i'm playing around with wifi PSM .. anyone can suggest nice values for Beacon interval on the AP to avoid excessive lag with max PSM on N900?
May 18 21:56:18 <DocScrutinizer> beacon interval is vastly irrelevant
May 18 21:56:44 <DocScrutinizer> everything from 20/s to 2s/beacon will work
May 18 21:57:07 <Sicelo> which setting should i tweak then?
May 18 21:57:13 <DocScrutinizer> probably 2/s is just fine
May 18 21:57:21 <Sicelo> besides getting a better routter, of course? :P
May 18 22:01:58 <DocScrutinizer> Sicelo: there's one parameter that defines timespan between "meeting points" where both devices are supposed to awake and listen if sth is going on
May 18 22:02:23 <DocScrutinizer> that's just one parameter, and I can't recall the name, for the life of mine
May 18 22:03:02 <DocScrutinizer> if however your AP doesn't play nice with N900 implementation of PSM, you're busted
May 18 22:03:12 <DocScrutinizer> nothing to tweak then
May 18 22:04:20 <MrPingu> wtf, my wifi of n900 crashed?
May 18 22:05:01 <Sicelo> guess i am.. this AP has setting for Fragmentation Threshold, RTS Threshold, and Beacon Interval (which defaults at 100)
May 18 22:05:52 <MrPingu> Beacon interval, is only used for probing isn't it?
May 18 22:07:30 <DocScrutinizer> yep
May 18 22:08:06 <DocScrutinizer> Sicelo: DTIM interval
May 18 22:08:25 <DocScrutinizer> default 1
May 18 22:09:03 <DocScrutinizer> beacon interval is in ms, 100 means 10 beacons/s
May 18 22:09:09 <DocScrutinizer> which is just fine
May 18 22:09:35 <DocScrutinizer> 5 would suffice as well
May 18 22:10:53 <DocScrutinizer> Sicelo: iirc there are like 5 flavours of PSM implementations, at least
May 18 22:11:47 <MrPingu> I am looking for that value that you mean, it's some kind of "ping" setting
May 18 22:12:31 * Sicelo gives up.. no DTIM setting here
May 18 22:12:45 <MrPingu> + for mobile devices you should make the timeouts a bit longer for better results
May 18 22:14:10 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Advanced_wireless_settings#DTIM_Interval
May 18 22:14:46 <MrPingu> http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Advanced_wireless_settings
May 18 22:14:52 <MrPingu> got be kidding
May 18 22:15:17 <MrPingu> Did I read your mind or you mine? :p
May 18 22:18:03 <DocScrutinizer> here's probably where doom starts: >>Since beacon frames are sent using the mandatory 802.11 carrier sense multiple access/collision detection (CSMA/CD) algorithm, the access point must wait if a client device is sending a frame when the beacon is to be sent. As a result, the actual time between beacons may be longer than the beacon interval. Client devices that awaken from power-save mode may find that they have to wait longer than 
May 18 22:18:05 <DocScrutinizer> expected to receive the next beacon frame. Client devices, however, compensate for this inaccuracy by utilizing the time-stamp found within the beacon frame.<<
May 18 22:23:09 <DocScrutinizer> MrPPS: look at timestamp and detal of both URL psts, then guess ;-D
May 18 22:23:23 <DocScrutinizer> wtf
May 18 22:26:04 <SiceloN900> test
May 18 22:29:15 <SiceloN900> looks like i can only use Intermediate PSM on this particular Ap
May 18 23:27:29 <DocScrutinizer> not unusual
May 18 23:28:10 <Vib3> yo
May 18 23:28:12 <Vib3> is what
May 18 23:28:33 <Vib3> sup Doc
May 18 23:28:54 <Vib3> too late to go to bar cos it closes in 1h
May 18 23:29:00 <Vib3> damn
May 18 23:29:06 <Vib3> started drinking again too l8
May 18 23:58:13 <DocScrutinizer> sounds like Frankfurt
May 18 23:59:02 <DocScrutinizer> though, not really
May 19 00:02:05 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik always been way more insulting
May 19 00:45:13 <k273> hi guys
May 19 00:45:31 <k273> I perceived that Nokia is giving away N950s in contest?
May 19 00:45:39 <k273> y no massproducing it?
May 19 00:47:04 <nox-> elop killed it
May 19 00:47:13 <k273> ya
May 19 00:47:25 <k273> pity
May 19 00:47:31 <nox-> indeed
May 19 00:48:10 <k273> and from what I get too Nokia isn't too lucky with the way their winphones sell
May 19 00:48:50 <nox-> http://www.asymco.com/2011/02/11/in-memoriam-microsofts-previous-strategic-mobile-partners/
May 19 00:49:22 <Hurrian> k273, yeah, it was surprising
May 19 00:49:28 <Hurrian> Nokia still had them in stock?
May 19 00:49:36 <Hurrian> how many warehouses of them do they have?
May 19 00:49:48 <Hurrian> the whole thing smells of a killed consumer phone
May 19 00:50:00 <Hurrian> probably ran for exactly one production run
May 19 00:50:32 <k273> o_O
May 19 00:50:59 <k273> What happened? Motorola launched a series of Windows Mobile phones culminating in the Motorola Q “Blackberry killer”.
May 19 00:51:12 <k273> I wanted that phone, actually, yeeeeeeeeears ago
May 19 00:51:33 <k273> I'm shocked it didn't sell at all back then
May 19 00:51:39 <k273> *I was
May 19 00:52:51 <k273> nox-: that was a heck of an article. thanks!
May 19 00:53:05 <k273> saving it for future reference XD
May 19 00:54:38 <k273> This is the first time that either company has embarked on an alliance of this scope and nature.
May 19 00:54:42 <k273> laughable?
May 19 00:54:59 <Hurrian> k273, i remember Windows Mobile phones actually selling a decent number of phones
May 19 00:55:13 <Hurrian> they weren't as popular as Symbian, but suit-people loved them
May 19 00:55:14 <k273> of course, especially their HTC and O2 ones
May 19 00:55:21 <k273> yeah
May 19 00:55:39 <Hurrian> WP7 is just meh
May 19 00:55:53 <k273> I tried that. Veeeery clunky
May 19 00:56:19 <k273> It brought back the old Symbian wound in me
May 19 00:56:28 <k273> Clunkiness is never a good thing no matter what
May 19 01:00:08 <k273> N900 is actually great
May 19 01:00:15 <k273> very
May 19 01:00:32 <k273> only thing I never tried (and want to) is webOS
May 19 01:00:44 <k273> the PalmOS was decent
May 19 01:21:46 <k273> Can't think of any other company (in any industry) with 30+% GLOBAL market share voluntarily giving up their own, albeit ailing systems (Symbian, Meego) and switching to just make hardware for someone else.
May 19 01:27:00 <Hurrian> k273, it has been clearly visible that Nokia has committed suicide by going WP
May 19 01:27:28 <Hurrian> the N9 was the fancy funeral
May 19 01:27:56 <k273> fancy funeral always sucks
May 19 01:27:59 <k273> =(
May 19 01:28:10 <k273> saw a lot of that kind here
May 19 01:31:10 <k273> the word funeral makes the word fancy lose its meaning.
May 19 02:19:38 <k273> http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/demotivational-posters-history.jpg
May 19 02:45:48 <k273> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/385164_245474242178126_153853541340197_698259_1028326375_n.jpg
May 19 02:52:03 <psycho_oreos> the vehicles doesn't look like its from 1980s :þ
May 19 02:52:58 <k273> XD
May 19 02:56:54 * psycho_oreos thinks these demotivational posters have really lost their touch.. or at least in quality sort of sense
May 19 02:57:38 <k273> time makes everything age, psycho_oreos 
May 19 02:57:44 <k273> *ages
May 19 02:57:48 <k273> or *age
May 19 02:57:55 <k273> yeah, age
May 19 02:58:13 <psycho_oreos> lol
May 19 02:58:35 <k273> not natively English speaking here
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat May 19 02:59:58 2012