**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 24 02:59:58 2012 May 24 05:44:27 Scorcerer: \m/ May 24 05:44:30 meh, May 24 05:44:46 tab- fail, i meant Sc0rpius May 24 05:45:19 one thing Sc0rpius, how is power usage/management? May 24 09:50:21 Maemo Council election results: http://maemo.org/vote/results.php?election_id=20 May 24 09:52:02 thanks X-Fade May 24 09:52:13 how many times has SD69 been on the council now/ May 24 09:52:14 ? May 24 09:52:38 Estel_: grats May 24 09:52:58 Estel_: aye, congrats May 24 09:53:50 teotwaki: with his attituted I am wondering why May 24 10:02:18 X-Fade: thanks May 24 10:02:27 teotwaki: This is his third term. May 24 10:02:53 He talks a lot. Does nothing. And bemoans the fact he's expected to do other things May 24 10:03:15 Jaffa: so I was correct in assuming he was indeed the one I saw you and GA talk about on twitter some weeks ago? May 24 10:03:28 teotwaki: Yup May 24 10:05:32 wow! May 24 10:06:06 teotwaki: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1207445&postcount=355 is quite fun May 24 10:06:26 teotwaki: Despite being the only active member on the previous council, he refused to accept he was the chair. May 24 10:14:00 Estel_: congratulations May 24 10:38:39 Estel_: please do not hesitate to moan about council members doing nothing, the other way round is welcome too (moan about what they do^^) May 24 11:25:34 X-Fade, thanks for announcing election results May 24 11:25:53 chem|st, teotwaki, Jaffa, thank You all May 24 11:26:21 I would like to personally thank every participant - mostly, the Community voting, then candidates running and finally, elected Councilors May 24 11:26:29 hi freemangordon May 24 11:26:39 Estel_, hi, congrats May 24 11:27:02 Jaffa, despite Your view on SD69 - which you're fully entitled to have - he got 2nd results in voting, so it seems that whole Community doesn't share your view. May 24 11:27:06 Thanks a lot, freemangordon May 24 11:27:19 You just missed my personal thanks to You ;) (and everyone voting in election) May 24 11:27:30 s/and/as/ May 24 11:27:30 Estel_ meant: You just missed my personal thanks to You ;) (as everyone voting in election) May 24 11:27:48 damn stupid sppedfan her, my PC was in boot loop :) May 24 11:27:56 *speedfan May 24 11:27:56 :) May 24 11:28:42 maybe it is time to get rid of that windoze finally May 24 11:28:43 anyway, election results are here, so we can start work on full throotle May 24 11:28:59 freemangordon, same thoughts here ;) May 24 11:29:22 Estel_: get a speelcheek, the red penis you're friend. May 24 11:30:01 teotwaki, wtf? i'mafraid I don't get You fully ;) May 24 11:30:13 Estel_: get a spellchecker, the red pen is your friend. May 24 11:30:28 ;) May 24 11:30:48 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_rwB5_3PQc May 24 11:30:50 Estel_: ^ May 24 11:30:51 speelcheek - hoever it looks and jaw - sounds better than red penis. It think it concludes this part of discussion ;) May 24 11:33:47 DocS, ping May 24 11:33:55 DocScrutinizer, ping May 24 11:48:12 teotwaki, quite good watching May 24 11:49:21 Woody14619, ping May 24 11:49:37 has someone the maemo development story handy? May 24 11:49:59 ? May 24 11:49:59 that guy talking about how it all happened May 24 11:56:28 chem|st: history*? May 24 11:57:34 development story of hildon and how it became maemo as the symbian guys were not fast enough with dropping code to them May 24 11:58:19 there was a communicator device mentioned which got it without any consumers knowing that it isn't symbian May 24 12:04:49 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/21/nokia_hildon_the_great_lost_platform/ May 24 12:05:08 wasn't communicator, was series 90... May 24 12:21:26 is it just me or is the maemo facebook sharing plugin broken since a few days? May 24 12:27:35 hello - can someone tell me how to do with a n900 that never can boot? May 24 12:28:40 i found a maemo wiki for cold-flashing it but it doesnt help May 24 12:35:13 which part of cold flashing isn't working for You? May 24 12:35:19 DocScrutinizer, ping May 24 12:36:25 don't coldflash unless you KNOW it's needed May 24 12:40:43 /home/mohammad/QtSDK/Madde/toolchains/arm-2009q3-67-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/arm-2009q3-67/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/4.4.1/../../../../arm-none-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld: marker.o: relocation R_ARM_MOVW_ABS_NC against `a local symbol' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC <-- the fuck May 24 12:42:12 DocScrutinizer, why ignoring pings? ;) May 24 12:42:28 afraid of script porn? don't worry, I got something different May 24 12:42:33 work May 24 12:42:37 understood May 24 12:43:00 would mind 30 second question not related to scripts or system? May 24 12:43:00 DocScrutinizer51: its neccessary - i cannot damage it because it cannot boot anymore - i see only a dark screen with the nokia emblem May 24 12:43:12 try hot flashing May 24 12:43:59 Estel_: i've tried to get a temporary nolo to flash all and hope it works - but no changes in the state May 24 12:44:38 but why You haven't tried normal flashing first? May 24 12:45:06 noki* emblem == do NOTcoldflash May 24 12:45:13 Estel_: i tried but the flasher cannot find the device - in coldflash it does after a few minutes May 24 12:45:53 in such case, it should flash successfuly. After cold flash, have You tried vanilla emmc flashing, as per "updating the firmware" on wiki page? May 24 12:46:00 with corr3ect order, removing battery etc May 24 12:46:05 then flashing FIASCO May 24 12:46:32 BTw DocScrutinizer is right, device showing logo isn't candidate for cold flash or at least shouldn't be May 24 12:46:48 yes i tried the preferred way from wiki and it doesnt work because the device is not found May 24 12:47:02 if cold flash doesn't help you, I'm afraid you might be screwed May 24 12:47:46 BS May 24 12:47:57 fix your PC issues May 24 12:48:11 ~flash May 24 12:48:12 hmm... maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware May 24 12:49:14 i cant understand whats up with the n900 yesterday it runs nice and after a shutdown it cannot boot May 24 13:43:25 accepted: my n900 is dead May 24 13:43:49 thanks for your tips May 24 14:03:46 Woody14619, ping May 24 14:06:29 DocScrutinizer, ping May 24 14:33:31 que? May 24 14:33:42 Estel_: May 24 14:34:26 aaah I see, a supposedly dead cheap to buy N900 May 24 14:34:30 :-P May 24 14:35:49 Estel_: lrn2suggest syslog May 24 14:37:04 DocScrutinizer, what? May 24 14:42:33 anyone an idea why sharing-plugin-facebook stopped working? May 24 14:43:46 chem|st: doesnt work here to May 24 14:44:07 spark666: tested on 2 devices allready May 24 14:44:11 spark666: but thanks May 24 14:49:15 sharing-service-facebook is nokia... andre__ is there anything we can do about that? May 24 14:49:32 that it is Nokia? :) May 24 14:49:42 I don't think so May 24 14:50:05 but yeah, seems to be an issue. also reported in https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12621 May 24 14:50:06 04Bug 12621: The Facebook widget does not work May 24 14:51:50 and I guess Flickr sharing will also break in two months when they completely switch to OAuth May 24 14:51:56 just my guess though May 24 14:52:18 andre__: they switch auth ? May 24 14:52:28 the only option its that someone make a new option for sharing like peterovich was May 24 14:52:50 for bluetooth in pr1.2 May 24 14:53:15 someone resamnble a sharingplugin yeah May 24 14:55:11 chem|st, http://code.flickr.com/blog/2012/01/13/farewell-flickrauth/ May 24 15:04:00 andre__: got nokia care in chat now, as the n900 is still sold as new and there were commercials with the facebook app they are required to fullfill this in europe May 24 15:25:50 i didn't know n900 was still sold anywhere May 24 15:28:00 well nokia does not sell it anymore and I guess with removing n900 device website they are save regarding any sueing May 24 15:51:27 gm, strange May 24 15:51:49 something is eating my idle power. I see that device without any connection, idle, is using ~50 mA, instead of usual 7-9 May 24 15:52:11 what is more strange, after rebootr, for few hours, idle usage is normal May 24 15:52:31 and then, without using any application (device left overnight) it start to be minimum of 50 mA May 24 15:52:42 ho ever, while-in-use pwoer usage is normal May 24 15:52:44 WTF? May 24 15:53:12 any good way to check it? I suspect something is keeping MPU of out sleep state, but how to check what? TOP doesn't show anything unusual May 24 15:54:49 ho ever? May 24 15:55:08 hoever I would be glad if You could stop ignoring private IRc messages from me ;) May 24 15:55:21 poowertop May 24 15:55:45 with a sample time of 30 minutes May 24 15:56:00 eh? May 24 15:56:27 meh May 24 15:56:30 afk May 24 15:57:50 exactly, and it shpows that CPU doesn't sleep as it should May 24 15:57:51 in idle May 24 15:57:58 but, how to check what is causing it? May 24 15:58:04 Estel_, pong May 24 16:44:03 hi. how well does android work on n900? May 24 16:44:30 ioan: are you from ro?:P May 24 16:44:37 yes May 24 16:44:41 me 2 :D May 24 16:45:03 well, I'm in US right now, dar sunt roman ;-) May 24 16:45:27 bine de tine ca ai scapat de ro :P May 24 16:45:42 lets talk in eng enyway before they kick us off :)) May 24 16:46:32 and related to your question,android works quite well afaik,only that few features are missing May 24 16:46:48 like what? what features are missing? May 24 16:47:43 i think phone feature... May 24 16:47:48 for phone calls May 24 16:47:52 I got an android phone for my wife last night, and I'm quite impressed with it... May 24 16:47:53 haha May 24 16:48:18 yes i owned one to in the past,a htc desire,they are nice May 24 16:48:29 so the phone will become an n850 with android :-) May 24 16:48:44 guess so..but maybe im wrong May 24 16:49:47 and the camera function i guess it doesnt work either :( May 24 16:49:53 gps? May 24 16:50:44 take a look here >> http://forum.nitdroid.com/index.php?board=6.0 May 24 16:51:03 i think you can find some of your answers there May 24 16:51:15 ok, thanks May 24 16:51:24 yw :) May 24 16:52:58 catch you guys later im going to take dinner :) May 24 16:53:23 pofta mare! May 24 16:53:38 hehe,mersi :D May 24 16:56:10 see ya all later May 24 16:58:39 DocScrutinizer, ping?... May 24 17:05:12 DocScrutinizer, ping-pong-ping-pung? May 24 17:13:52 X-Fade, ping May 24 17:14:11 DocScrutinizer, ping-pang-pung-pong-peng? May 24 17:14:53 * Estel_ bombards DocScrutinizer with tons of ping-pong balls May 24 17:15:02 ~ping DocScrutinizer May 24 17:15:02 pong DocScrutinizer May 24 17:27:17 X-Fade, ping May 24 17:28:38 anyone know qgil's nick on IRC? May 24 17:30:33 lol:P May 24 17:36:44 Estel_: IIRC its quimgil or qgil May 24 17:36:58 thanks a lot May 24 17:37:03 none seems to be present :( May 24 17:37:24 just ask him over twitter? May 24 17:42:36 I don't user twitter, honestly May 24 17:42:59 but thanks for suggestion May 24 18:04:27 ~seen qgil May 24 18:04:34 qgil was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 239d 19h 18m ago, saying: 'ok, time to leave and join the Qt chapter - Siicon Valley. See you around!'. May 24 18:05:36 Estel_: pong May 24 18:07:20 DocScrutinizer, see private IRC message May 24 18:07:25 (query) May 24 18:07:47 sorry there is none May 24 18:07:59 DocScrutinizer51: irc spam filters? :D May 24 18:08:15 nick May 24 18:09:39 hm May 24 18:10:06 and now? May 24 18:10:16 for some reasons, /query DocScrutinizer doesn't workj for You, and work with everyone else May 24 18:10:36 I've tried again, any response? May 24 18:10:37 Estel_: notice the 51 on his nick? ;) May 24 18:10:45 oh May 24 18:10:46 so I'd suggest you /query DocScrutinizer51 May 24 18:10:48 sorry, my fault May 24 18:10:50 of course May 24 18:10:58 yea, i'm dumbie. Thanks a lot May 24 18:12:17 hm, doesn't seem to work either or hes away May 24 18:12:24 battery empty, sorry May 24 18:18:48 DocScrutinizer51, maybe now? May 24 18:19:43 ~seen quimgil May 24 18:19:47 quimgil was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 433d 19h 15m 48s ago, saying: 'lbt: now go to sleep only to find out next morning in Engadget that 'a new "fremantle" device3 is in the plans' etc etc ;)'. May 24 18:22:29 a while ago May 24 18:24:51 yea... May 24 18:24:55 Jaffa, ping May 24 18:35:35 Estel_, he uses the nick qgil now May 24 18:35:47 MohammadAG, I know, but May 24 18:35:52 ~seen qgil May 24 18:35:57 qgil was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 239d 19h 49m 23s ago, saying: 'ok, time to leave and join the Qt chapter - Siicon Valley. See you around!'. May 24 18:36:03 just a while ago ;) May 24 18:36:06 ~seen qgil_ May 24 18:36:06 qgil_ was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 279d 21h 54m 34s ago, saying: 'still, if the news are confirmed the real news will be what HP does next'. May 24 18:36:15 ~seen QGil May 24 18:36:16 qgil was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 239d 19h 49m 42s ago, saying: 'ok, time to leave and join the Qt chapter - Siicon Valley. See you around!'. May 24 18:36:16 anyway, he tried to use webchat.freenode.net, so it's pointless, I'll catch him via mail May 24 18:42:42 I used webchat just a couple weeks ago and it worked fine. :) May 24 18:50:35 ~seen javispedro May 24 18:50:39 javispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 3h 32m 12s ago, saying: 'that'd make for interesting performance counters'. May 24 19:13:43 DocScrutinizer, DocScrutinizer51, ping May 24 19:14:07 DocScrutinizer112, ping May 24 19:18:40 Sc0rpius: what's new on Nemo? May 24 19:18:55 Estel_: congrats on election. :) May 24 19:19:09 did you finally figure out what your power hog is? May 24 19:25:43 Sicelo, thanks a lot :) May 24 19:25:48 still not May 24 19:26:02 will need to ask someone more accustomed to powertop (vi?) May 24 19:26:28 paste it ... there's others who understand it tooo :P May 24 19:28:19 I understand it, just don't know wtf hogs it. But I'll surely hear Your opinion about it May 24 19:28:30 if You know wtf, I'll be very thankful May 24 19:28:53 gimme minute, will do fresh test, need to close connections May 24 19:38:36 Sicelo, or anyone who would like help with tracking down the bugger: May 24 19:38:37 http://sebsauvage.net/paste/?442cb300fdfd5acb#/bTbfxspbV/9ZBYjXxp48/AEsGUSvhhW5qYOMi6Npn0= May 24 19:38:46 C1 state all the time... May 24 19:39:00 may syslogd be the bugger? May 24 19:39:42 O.o May 24 19:39:52 why is xbindkeys so busy? May 24 19:44:56 Sicelo, no idea? May 24 19:45:01 I'm using it for ages May 24 19:45:05 never been problem May 24 19:45:12 it's easy debian's xbindkeys May 24 19:45:18 why it got mad lately, ffs May 24 19:46:05 looks to me like that's where your problem is May 24 19:49:25 i guess i'll soon lose telephony functions on my N900 :\ May 24 19:51:14 when i change from 3G to 2G and vice versa, i find that i end up with no signal at all, and power usage goes high. a reboot fixes things May 24 19:53:33 hm May 24 19:53:41 try solution with hammer May 24 19:53:52 or sell it and buy N900's from me as per tmo:P May 24 19:54:07 I sell them so cheap, that You'll probably profit in ,process May 24 19:54:39 DocScrutinizer, via powertop logs, do You have idea wtf is that? is it xbindkeys fault and why it went mad sudden pf nothing? May 24 19:54:45 I never had problems with it May 24 19:55:27 Estel_: i'm too far, lol. Africa May 24 19:55:52 I send everywshere except, probably, noth korea :P May 24 19:56:12 Estel_: >>Collecting data for 30 seconds<< forget it May 24 19:56:19 ? May 24 19:56:25 30 minutes, nit 30s May 24 19:56:33 ok, no problem May 24 19:56:44 but even for 30 sec xbindkeys should sleep May 24 19:56:45 see who owns PID 2025 May 24 19:56:49 wait estel, sellin n900s on tmo May 24 19:56:54 linkedylinklink May 24 19:57:11 merlin1991, sure thing wait a second May 24 19:57:12 erm May 24 19:57:15 n88n8n8 May 24 19:57:20 :P May 24 19:57:28 Sicelo, could You give him link, I'm on 10 kbps connection again May 24 19:57:40 and tmo will load for ages May 24 19:57:42 centuries May 24 19:58:42 WUT? May 24 19:58:50 N900 for sale? May 24 19:58:53 pid 2025? cant find it, how should IZ check it properly? May 24 19:59:02 not only N900 May 24 19:59:02 DocScrutinizer I called dibs! May 24 19:59:03 merlin1991: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84174 May 24 19:59:20 N900's in ideal condition with reinforced usb port May 24 19:59:24 english keyboard May 24 19:59:27 2025 | 299 | xbindkeys | do_nanosleep (hrtimer_wakeup) May 24 19:59:33 for 180 euros May 24 19:59:36 ah I see May 24 20:00:09 I had problems with selling them for 2 weeks, but now they're gone. Although, I may come with more if someone is decided May 24 20:00:20 WTF PK May 24 20:00:28 forgetit May 24 20:00:31 DocScrutinizer, any idea why xbindkeys got apeshi? May 24 20:00:33 flash proper kernel May 24 20:01:09 Frequency | Ratio May 24 20:01:11 1150 MHz | nan% | May 24 20:01:16 bullshit May 24 20:01:20 I'm on 900 mhz May 24 20:01:27 damn, sold out May 24 20:01:27 powertop fakes it May 24 20:01:32 and I had my hopes up May 24 20:01:35 merlin1991, not entirely May 24 20:01:43 I can arrange another one for You May 24 20:01:43 yeah, PK always shows 1150MHz there May 24 20:02:22 Ialready got one person on waiting list :P May 24 20:02:44 that's one of the points why I consider PK non-compatible and introducing regressions May 24 20:02:59 merlin1991, it will be on same price or similar one (no more than 200 euro + shipping) May 24 20:03:07 DocScrutinizer, what is regression here? May 24 20:03:37 I don't care what powertop shows about frequency, I'm interested in what's eating my battery May 24 20:03:49 obviously powertop's inability to cope with PK's messed up cpufreq listing May 24 20:04:19 Estel_: then fix powertop May 24 20:04:30 I see, but C* states are important for us May 24 20:04:35 DocScrutinizer: it is not on powertop to cope with PK's fsckedup lisings! May 24 20:04:42 it should sleep on C4not C1 May 24 20:04:59 chem|st: all my notion May 24 20:05:04 :) May 24 20:05:15 well, maybe stock kernel used fckd listing May 24 20:05:24 and maemo powertop got adjusted to that May 24 20:05:27 PK *is* *not* compatible May 24 20:05:36 now kp got fixed listing and powertop is not compatible May 24 20:05:46 Estel_: it is std powertop from debian guess who fsckedup... May 24 20:05:49 hmm :\ May 24 20:05:59 seriously, I have in ass what powertop thing about frequency May 24 20:06:05 chem|st: it's not May 24 20:06:12 chem|st, why sure it wasn't adjusted? May 24 20:06:17 the first one was the bare arm build May 24 20:06:41 if it's kp fault, lets contact freemangordon. F it's powertop fault, lets fix it. May 24 20:06:51 no need for whinning about compatibility May 24 20:07:02 powertop is closed source AFAIK May 24 20:07:02 but thnd PK has to conformat doesn't change the basic rule that maemo kernel is simply always "right" a May 24 20:07:08 that* May 24 20:07:18 wtf May 24 20:07:21 DocScrutinizer, cant agree May 24 20:07:51 meritocratic approach doesn't allow us to say that stock is right on doing things wrong May 24 20:07:56 * Sicelo leaves to reboot his N900 .. this modem thing makes me sick May 24 20:07:57 but that doesn't change the principle that maemo kernel is ruling and PK has to follow (this time without touchpad messing up stuff) May 24 20:08:13 Sicelo: modem turning off? May 24 20:08:16 seriously, I think otherwise May 24 20:08:41 at least when it comes to things that can be fixed May 24 20:08:51 Sicelo: most of the time ->flightmode->normal fixes it for me May 24 20:08:54 i.e. no one say it's ok to change things and makew bme go apeshit May 24 20:08:59 but powertop? May 24 20:09:07 if it's foss, it can be fixed May 24 20:09:10 Estel_: if maemo kernel had a MMOONNSSTTEERR bug and 15 apps rely on it, I give a stinking warm fart about PK fixing that bug May 24 20:09:29 if it's closed, it's its problem as its not essential like bme May 24 20:09:30 chem|st: when i change modes (3G/2G), i end up with no signal at all, and high battery consumption. Offline/Online doesn't help me. i have a (bad) feeling that i'll soon lose telephony completely May 24 20:09:30 hm May 24 20:09:33 hm May 24 20:09:38 it depends May 24 20:09:46 no, it doesn't May 24 20:09:50 if those 15 aps are foss and rely on monster bug May 24 20:10:01 then it's time to fix both bug and 15 apps May 24 20:10:15 if they're closed source and essential (see bme) then it's valid May 24 20:10:20 find a way to emulate the MONSTER bug in PK for those apps that need it, or you're wrong May 24 20:10:22 Sicelo: ouch May 24 20:10:37 a reboot fixes things May 24 20:10:39 if they're closed and esential - yes, true May 24 20:10:54 if open or closed and non esential, well... May 24 20:11:03 Sicelo: stay on 2g? :) May 24 20:11:07 non essential - I mean, lets say, blessN900 May 24 20:11:23 closed source extras May 24 20:11:57 thats why I think we need upstream CSSU with community kernel bundled in and -testing -devel variants May 24 20:11:58 yeah chem|st :P .. only problem is that sometimes 2G stops working here (peak hours) .. that's when i switch to 3G May 24 20:12:26 we don't want chaos when programs are written to follow bugs in distribution A May 24 20:12:32 and doesnt work in B and C May 24 20:12:41 especially, that we have low dev resources May 24 20:12:47 and especially kp devs May 24 20:13:29 now I'll be asshat - I would use a minute of freemangordon's or Pali time to do 2 kernels, for "stock" fans (onlhy bugfixes) and proper kernel-power May 24 20:14:01 if someone is so conservative and want stock, he/she can prepare kp-lite rollouts May 24 20:14:04 and manage it May 24 20:14:15 s/manage/maintain/ May 24 20:14:17 Estel_ meant: and maintain it May 24 20:14:36 nobody, I repeat NOBODY is allowed to "fix" something in a way that creates more trouble than good. And nobody has the right to order app devels to rework their lib/whatever API, just because you think the lib need an better incompatible API. It's *YOU* who's doing mist evil then, not the original bug you intend to fix May 24 20:14:38 but never demand kp/CSSU devs to do so May 24 20:14:42 most* May 24 20:14:55 nobody is allowed to order anything anyone May 24 20:15:01 but sometimes, people just want to May 24 20:15:23 people want to re-work their programs to use KP or CSSU new possibilities May 24 20:15:36 it's all about volounteering May 24 20:15:46 kp is done by volounteers May 24 20:15:50 cssu too. May 24 20:16:04 if someone doesn't like feature in KP or CSSU - nice, it's FOSS May 24 20:16:26 volounteer time and make a version that suit You, maybe You'll get followers May 24 20:16:32 or not. May 24 20:16:37 no, it's all about competence and inspiration to find a way for better alternatives to allow old stuff to co-exist May 24 20:16:49 when feasible, sure thing May 24 20:17:03 but we need to use our scarce resources in feasible way May 24 20:17:04 when not, you're the one who's screwed May 24 20:17:15 not I and my app that needs that old API May 24 20:17:17 well, if we have 2 kernel devs May 24 20:17:31 I preffer them doing what they preffer, i.e. properly working things May 24 20:17:33 that's nonsense May 24 20:17:45 not rolling out version with old bugs to make it compatible with fckd api May 24 20:18:06 or emulation of bug May 24 20:18:23 sorry, I won't let anybody hijack maemo May 24 20:18:29 asshat argument here - after all, there is always stock :P May 24 20:18:38 DocScrutinizer, do you know why powertop spits bullshit when run under KP? May 24 20:18:46 people choose via their repos downloads May 24 20:18:49 no hijacking. May 24 20:18:54 freemangordon: guess! May 24 20:19:00 I can bet it is hardcoded for up to 600 MHz May 24 20:19:08 :) May 24 20:19:27 it splits up 1150 mhz no matter what May 24 20:19:37 freemangordon: what does this tell us? there's not supposed to be anything >600MHz May 24 20:19:53 so the proper "BUGFIX" will be to limit PK frequency to 600. And THAT is nonsense May 24 20:19:59 anyway, if someone will make awesome project and call it omeam, everyone or majority will use it May 24 20:20:07 and program accordingly May 24 20:20:13 is it hijack? no, free choice May 24 20:20:14 freemangordon: that's idiotic bullshit alternative May 24 20:20:27 DocScrutinizer, You can't force peoplem to stick with what You feel is right May 24 20:20:44 honestly you can do better than that, I know you well enough by now May 24 20:21:24 after all, people will code and use whatever they want, no natter if You call it hijacking or not. or compatible ;) May 24 20:21:39 DocScrutinizer, either that, or even more insane method - lie about actual frequency range May 24 20:22:09 read that http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Program-Library-HOWTO/shared-libraries.html and either get what I meant, or wave as I'm leaving now anyway May 24 20:22:19 just to make powertop(and you) happy. May 24 20:22:48 freemangordon: whom are YOU going to make happy? May 24 20:23:00 after all, sometimes You just need to choose lesser evil, to not allow bigger one, sneaking in the dark, to catch You. May 24 20:23:10 BUHAHA that was dark! ;) May 24 20:23:19 DocScrutinizer, NFC, I can just hope May 24 20:23:32 DocScrutinizer, every kp user? May 24 20:23:41 that someone will fin a value in what me (and others) are doing May 24 20:23:45 *find May 24 20:23:49 after all, people want upstream bugfixes and features, not emulating old bugs May 24 20:23:49 I don't mind KP users May 24 20:23:56 they can do whatever they like May 24 20:23:58 to make powertop or other things happy May 24 20:24:15 but KP *IS* *NOT* *COMPATIBLE* May 24 20:24:29 and thus never will go into CSSU like that May 24 20:24:35 well, whatever they like? so, they can say stock is not compatible and obsolete ;) May 24 20:24:40 hm May 24 20:24:50 DocScrutinizer, it is powertop not compatible, not KP May 24 20:24:52 do You realize that CSSU will be whatever devs decide to... May 24 20:24:59 and no one is entitled to block it? May 24 20:25:29 no, it will be what maintainers decide. For now I'm one of three May 24 20:25:57 well, in case of any unnecessary conflict May 24 20:26:01 it will just get forked May 24 20:26:21 you're free to fork - actually I appreciate you to do that May 24 20:26:21 with the fork becoming upstream, probably May 24 20:26:27 it's better to find compromise May 24 20:26:38 than sticking to ideology just for sake of it May 24 20:26:54 and by "fork" i mean it in "" May 24 20:27:20 if someone will try to obstruct development for misty and hardly valid reasons... May 24 20:27:26 that's not ideology, that's common sense for all those users that are supposed to migrate from stock nokia repos to cssu May 24 20:27:49 it's not arbitrary OTA May 24 20:27:50 if you want ACME bleeding edge, YOU fork May 24 20:28:03 it's not kp fault that our version of powertop is screwed May 24 20:28:09 ktnxby May 24 20:28:16 it's not kp fault that our version of powertop is screwed May 24 20:28:28 it's just naming convention. May 24 20:28:37 in factp, with all due respect May 24 20:28:43 don't take it as hostile May 24 20:28:52 devs doing things > maintainers May 24 20:29:26 that's bullshit, and I'm talking as a user here May 24 20:29:36 with OpenOffice, maintainers denied to do things *right* way for hardly reasonable reasons May 24 20:30:01 it resulted in "forking" into libre office and open office dissapearing from upstream in eye's blink May 24 20:30:13 after all, devs choose by coding, and users by installing May 24 20:30:26 oracle as maintainer had nothing to say about it May 24 20:30:29 merlin1991 and me installed cssu-extras for you, if you still need to fork, do it. I don't care May 24 20:30:47 I don't have anything against cssu-extras May 24 20:30:56 it sounds like good idea for things May 24 20:31:08 you won't hijack cssu May 24 20:31:14 I'm just saying that we must consider available resources and doers, over ideology May 24 20:31:56 if doers will decide that it's fine to have CSSU and commuty kernel as 1 project, it's fine for me May 24 20:32:07 stay focused May 24 20:32:20 if they'll decide to have 3 different kernels *and* people will like to work on it... May 24 20:32:32 that's for nobody to decide, it's written in CSSU 'manifest' this won't happen May 24 20:32:40 considering we have 2 kernel developers, I doubt it. May 24 20:32:48 manifest can be changed. May 24 20:32:52 updated May 24 20:32:55 whatever. May 24 20:33:09 sure, in you rfork you can change it all the way you like May 24 20:33:13 it's no one's right to obstruct it, if Community would like change. May 24 20:33:24 fork is bad word here. May 24 20:33:33 Estel_: the way this is gonna go... you should ask all to develop nemo to topnotch usable May 24 20:33:33 if community prefers your fork, they'll follow May 24 20:33:38 In worst case, rather split, but I doubt it will ever happen. May 24 20:33:40 you won't hijack cssu May 24 20:33:56 you won't hijack cssu May 24 20:33:56 DocScrutinizer, wtf with this hijack? May 24 20:33:57 you won't hijack cssu May 24 20:34:04 it's not Your property May 24 20:34:34 doers and user = community will decide what CSSU is, and, in fact, are deciding every day May 24 20:34:41 Wasn't the whole point of CSSU to be able to use upstream tools? If you stick to a broken downstream behavior, what's the point of it? May 24 20:34:54 good point. May 24 20:35:10 the developers decide not the users May 24 20:35:13 chem|st, there is something valid in HYour point May 24 20:35:27 but, people develop and use what they want May 24 20:35:34 chem|st, latest point is not valid May 24 20:35:35 Estel_: nope May 24 20:35:37 you won't hijack cssu May 24 20:35:41 This is what library revisioning (and kernel module versioning) is for. If you break functionality, you pop up the major and allow both to co-exist. May 24 20:35:44 if users don't use, devs dont decide May 24 20:35:46 it got a clear destiny May 24 20:35:55 DocScrutinizer, I think You should rest, honestly. May 24 20:36:13 guys srls May 24 20:36:14 y May 24 20:36:20 DocScrutinizer, can you please stop with the hijack nonsense? You sound like a 4 year old. May 24 20:36:24 there is no such thing as hijacking cssu, cssu is constantly evolving idea. May 24 20:36:40 Estel_: there might be some userbase wanting naked babes dancing while an upgrade happens... as long as ther is no developer adding a naked-babes feature to his upgrade there will be no naked babes! May 24 20:36:41 it's just a heated discussion ;) May 24 20:36:46 cssu is going to be what the cssu maintainers decide, any other project that possibly is 90% like cssu can do whatever it's going todo May 24 20:36:50 no, you should stop trying to find arguments why some change to CSSU might be needed that makes it incompatible to stock maemo May 24 20:36:56 chem|st, true May 24 20:37:00 but cssu as itself has a mission statement and is going to stick to that May 24 20:37:03 We get your point... for the 100th time.... saying it 101 times won't change anything. May 24 20:37:10 now, old bugs for compatibility sake are those naked babies May 24 20:37:18 CSSU *is* and *stays* compatible to stock maemo May 24 20:37:32 DocScrutinizer: +1 May 24 20:37:50 merlin1991, not entirely true May 24 20:37:50 maintainers can be changed. May 24 20:38:00 if not the idea of flashing and just installing cssu brakes May 24 20:38:02 if they would like to obstruct project May 24 20:38:06 that's what doc means by hijack May 24 20:38:11 btw compatible with maemo != compatible with bugs May 24 20:38:14 DocScrutinizer, That's a great goal... and acheaving this 99% of the time is great. But there are times it needs to change. May 24 20:38:35 DocScrutinizer, Not every app worked out of the box even when the PR releases hit from Nokia. May 24 20:38:39 if powertop is screwed, it's not kp fault May 24 20:38:47 sure thing May 24 20:38:53 and good point from Woody14619 May 24 20:39:04 pr.1.2 broke TONS of things May 24 20:39:06 Woody14619: if you can convince 99% of experienced kernel and system architects that tere's simply no other way,then maybe May 24 20:39:14 no one said to Nokia "You won't hijack maemo" May 24 20:39:18 cssu is to fix whatever is possible by not destroying the base everything further upstream should go to mer May 24 20:39:23 Estel_: bullshit May 24 20:39:36 DocScrutinizer, 100% of our kernel developers is 2 people May 24 20:39:40 tell me which app broke by migration 1.2->1.3 May 24 20:39:59 1.1->1.2 I said May 24 20:40:05 Estel_: you rnotion of kernel developers is 100% differing to mine May 24 20:40:08 and for that, just use archive May 24 20:40:29 ok, I'm talking about people actively working on our kernel right now. May 24 20:40:30 DocScrutinizer, Several... Mappero, nhouse, Xploder.... May 24 20:41:06 btw, I'm sure our powertop is screwed, as it's hardcoded to 600 mhz May 24 20:41:11 is it valid for You? May 24 20:41:12 DocScrutinizer, It took offline over a month to update their app to work. Mappero it still busted. May 24 20:41:16 * cehteh needs more popcorn, bitches! May 24 20:41:22 so what? now you're the ones to decide we do that shit again (if such shit actually ever happened)? May 24 20:41:32 DocScrutinizer, and it was clearly PR1.2->PR1.3 May 24 20:41:36 Estel_: 1.1->1.2 and 1.2->1.3 broke things as there were chip firmware upgrades involved incompatible to previous versions so there was no fallback or downgrade possible anymore, you devicce was stuck with what was installed last... May 24 20:41:43 nope, it's just that feasibility > ideology May 24 20:42:02 chem|st, agreed May 24 20:42:04 cehteh: good evening May 24 20:42:22 * chem|st grabs some of cehteh's popcorn May 24 20:42:32 it's quite funny as we're discussing how much kernel's versions we should have... May 24 20:42:36 * freemangordon wants too May 24 20:42:43 DocScrutinizer, I'm not arguing that we need to follow Nokia's lead on this. Just saying, don't let being 100% compatible hobble other things. May 24 20:42:45 while we have NOT enough people to work on current sole kernel May 24 20:42:52 honestly guys, I (co-)managed whole projects (see ~joerg) - I'm not going to continue discussion on that level now May 24 20:43:14 well, it's Your right to leave discussion at any time, of course May 24 20:43:37 DocScrutinizer, If something is majorly broken, and can't be worked around, consider the possability of that change. May 24 20:43:53 I'm sure shape of projects will appear naturally, anyway, by developers working on them May 24 20:44:46 honestly, I enjoy ideological conversationsp but we need more "just get things done" and doers May 24 20:44:56 discussion ended, that's what we all agree about...oO( freemangordon gimme back my popcorn #@%&*(@$^ ) May 24 20:45:03 haha May 24 20:45:15 In all honesty, I'm not even sure what we're talking about originally... but screaming that changing anything is hijacking things, and remaining 100% with stock is a bit of a strech, when Nokia itself has changed what "stock" means at least twice. May 24 20:45:23 btw Estel_ about "replacing" cssu maintainers, who's entitled todo so? May 24 20:45:23 this is now about popcorn May 24 20:45:55 chem|st: well, ok, take your popcorn back May 24 20:45:57 merlin1991, deva, obviously, but I doubt it will ever happen. In fact I'm sure not May 24 20:46:09 deva? May 24 20:46:12 Woody14619: Estel_ mer/nemo is what you are looking for... not hijacking cssu May 24 20:46:16 it was just response to religiously saying "no one will change anything cause we decide" May 24 20:46:34 and that is another channel for sure May 24 20:46:42 deva, it's nordic god, don't You know? :P May 24 20:46:52 nope :D May 24 20:46:54 chem|st, mer is different project May 24 20:47:02 keep it out of scope please, thanks May 24 20:47:05 Estel_: so is cssu... May 24 20:47:18 cssu is people :D May 24 20:47:33 you are looking for some project build around PK May 24 20:47:34 and mer? May 24 20:47:46 if devs won't like maintainers religiously saying "no change!" cssu will just become something else May 24 20:47:46 chem|st, when mer/nemo has a working sync app, call me. While I applaud those working on it, I don't see it going very much farther than it already is. May 24 20:47:49 in fact it's academic discussion May 24 20:47:56 or even around meego... May 24 20:48:00 chem|st, why maemo cssu is out of maemo scope? May 24 20:48:01 more "do", less "what will happen if" May 24 20:48:34 seriously, who is most active CSSU pair of devs now? May 24 20:48:37 .oO(And people say all the drama is in TMO.... ;) ) May 24 20:48:42 :P May 24 20:48:49 Woody14619: we have our own kind of drama here :D May 24 20:48:50 Woody14619: facebook broke so will others... wanna code all plugins from scratch? May 24 20:48:55 Woody14619, lol May 24 20:49:20 so tell facebook that the6're not compatible May 24 20:49:27 and that they won't hijack maemo May 24 20:49:27 chem|st, there is a facebook plugin in nemo? May 24 20:49:44 freemangordon: it is out of scope if you are looking to dump nokia-maemo-base May 24 20:49:46 chem|st, Facebook broke for iPhone as well... original iPhone 1 users are not getting updates. Want to update that? At least here we have the option. May 24 20:49:55 AFAIK no, so what is the difference? It will be fritten from scratch in any way May 24 20:50:17 *written May 24 20:50:19 honestly, freemangordon and Pali are most active devs on both CSSU and KP May 24 20:50:23 Bingo... freemangordon nailed it in 1. :) May 24 20:50:34 cooperation between two projects is profitable to all May 24 20:50:43 in fact, it's going to consolidate IMO May 24 20:50:57 and that also sounds very profitable for whole thing. May 24 20:51:14 I think lots of people are active.... being more active than another doesn't dictate terms. (Not always anyway) May 24 20:51:15 freemangordon: seen some fb icon in nemo videos, could be just an icon though ;) sure it will be like any other May 24 20:51:24 the difference (as I see it) is that 99% of the other stuff is still OK in maemo, while not in nemo. May 24 20:51:32 Woody14619, sure thing May 24 20:51:40 I just mean that devs decide with code May 24 20:51:44 user with install May 24 20:51:45 etc May 24 20:51:51 no one can force anything May 24 20:52:02 either by "change" ideology May 24 20:52:09 or "you won't hijack" one May 24 20:52:22 it's unrelated what is written on CSSU wiki. May 24 20:52:28 yes, but encouraging that mentality leads to a mess. One look at OpenMoko will show you how slippery that slope is. May 24 20:52:33 it's important what it will become via work done on it May 24 20:52:44 freemangordon: getting nemo to work would track some attention... May 24 20:52:50 so changing the core OS just to have a working facebook applet (if we take that as an example) sounds inefficent to me May 24 20:52:56 chem|st, sure think :) May 24 20:53:00 *thing May 24 20:53:06 Estel_: and maintainers decide about repo. period May 24 20:53:13 Some structure is good. And attempting to retain compatability is a good thing most times. The trick is to know when and where to compromise. May 24 20:53:17 it is inefficient May 24 20:53:26 Woody14619, DocScrutinizer will become mad if You keep pointing why OpenMoko is failure ;) May 24 20:53:27 users=install, devels=code, maintainers=repo May 24 20:53:49 Estel_: yiu're an idiot, with all respect May 24 20:53:50 DocScrutinizer, maintainer are not rulers. May 24 20:53:57 no problem ;) May 24 20:54:02 sure they are May 24 20:54:12 although i preffer meritocratic arguments May 24 20:54:14 Estel_: they are... look at debian for example May 24 20:54:14 the sole rulers about that particular repo May 24 20:54:16 no, they're not May 24 20:54:20 and why not? May 24 20:54:32 sure, as long as there are new/updated packages to maintain May 24 20:54:33 if maintainers say no it does mean no May 24 20:54:34 Estel_: make that change, tell me how May 24 20:54:38 because when maintainers become too found on themselves May 24 20:54:49 you're freew to fork May 24 20:54:51 and obstruct changes that majorfity wants May 24 20:54:54 then it is called suse? May 24 20:54:59 project is split like OpenOffice May 24 20:55:00 then either there is a body ably to remove them or you fork May 24 20:55:01 that's it May 24 20:55:01 you're not telling maintainers what to do May 24 20:55:10 and maintainers are left with dead and "empty" repo May 24 20:55:15 the maintianers themselves still wont change May 24 20:55:32 yea, but they don't matter anymore May 24 20:55:42 DocScrutinizer, I'm confused on why you see this as an "us vs them" thing? May 24 20:55:44 oracled don't matter about FOSS office now May 24 20:55:48 there is no mozilla firefox on debian repos guess why... May 24 20:55:49 they can stand whener they want May 24 20:55:52 so what? your problem? May 24 20:55:52 DocScrutinizer, I don't think anyone is demanding you (or anyone else) do something. May 24 20:56:35 if maintainers think that is good to become sole figure guarding cementry, why not May 24 20:56:49 sure thing, no demanding anywhere May 24 20:56:54 and charging cssu to become what you just discuss will endup like debian sid May 24 20:56:59 I just don't agree with "You will do as we say" May 24 20:57:05 devs are doing. May 24 20:57:11 chem|st, which is why most Debian users have a second repo installed (at higher priority) to pick up Firefox and other tools. May 24 20:57:11 devs are doing. May 24 20:57:17 users using and feedbacking May 24 20:57:23 sorry, mistake echo May 24 20:57:54 Woody14619: someone altered the code to fit debian and called it iceweasel! May 24 20:58:21 iceweasel is, unfortunately, a little too slowly developed for most users. May 24 20:58:43 anyway. May 24 20:58:45 chem|st, but if nothing new comes because of some ideological reasoning, then there is a risk CSSU to stagnate May 24 20:58:56 stagnate? May 24 20:59:04 there is a risk that something else will become cssu May 24 20:59:09 I optout at that point thanks...oO(unstable is to fast for "most" users...) May 24 20:59:10 and old cssu become open office May 24 20:59:20 i.e. thing that only pretend that it's existing May 24 20:59:24 Same thing happens with Fedora. Open-only mentatlity forces a large majority of the users to add another repo just to get better than 640x480 displays... May 24 21:00:07 ...and we're not forced to face such dilema, as we're talking about open stuff either way May 24 21:00:19 just between a "compatibility dictate" May 24 21:00:28 aka "you wont hijack" May 24 21:00:32 and feasibility May 24 21:00:42 you may think of you&me talking of users... I think of my girlfriend and she's already pretty techsavvy May 24 21:00:42 aka "compatibility when possible and feasible" May 24 21:00:52 and as a result, resources shift away from Fedora and into the other development stream. May 24 21:01:07 BTW, cssu is already not compatible ;) May 24 21:01:14 see Return and Kp_Enter May 24 21:01:21 Sc0rpius, yes, there are several open bugs remaining, well we will fix it. And what after that? May 24 21:01:28 no one cried about it too loudly May 24 21:01:54 Estel_: what has that to do with cssu? May 24 21:01:56 but but, users need to use kp enter instead of return due to CSSU! May 24 21:02:04 it's unbeliveable incompatibility ;) May 24 21:02:17 maintainers got a 'concept' - they try to follow that - devels are free to code whatever they like but don't have any power to change what maintainers think about that code they develop. If devels are smart they discuss stuff and try to find a consensus how their cute stuff fits into that concept, or they decide for a different way to publish their stuff. In the end it's user who decides whether to pick disto A or distro B (though I feel May 24 21:02:18 Hello! What can I do to get interface usb0 running? May 24 21:02:19 sick talking about distors here, as CSSU is NOT a new distro, it's continuing maemo original) May 24 21:02:22 cssu changed way xterm and some other things inerpret return and kp enter May 24 21:02:34 Estel_: kp_enter was in maemo5 since 1.0 May 24 21:02:42 yea May 24 21:02:47 and now it's return May 24 21:02:55 and that is good! May 24 21:02:56 kaawee: the easist way is to use mad-developer May 24 21:03:09 it's good I agree May 24 21:03:09 merlin1991: Isn't it available by default? May 24 21:03:10 it is how it should be May 24 21:03:13 but incompatible! May 24 21:03:19 with what? May 24 21:03:21 at least as much as kp and powertop May 24 21:03:25 even more May 24 21:03:36 kaawee: it is but that way you have a nice gui and a dhcp server and whatnot :) May 24 21:03:42 all base programs handle it fine May 24 21:03:48 chem|st, with everything that relied on kp_enter! May 24 21:04:01 I'm ironically, if You haven't noticed May 24 21:04:06 Estel_: sorry dude, the KP-enter fix is backwards compatible - bad example May 24 21:04:14 not always May 24 21:04:22 reinob made a list of incompatible apps May 24 21:04:26 on tmo already May 24 21:04:34 most of them fixed now May 24 21:04:35 merlin1991: well, I just want to have TCP access using usb and I'm not afraid to enter some commands, but it seems that "usb0" is not there at all May 24 21:04:36 anyway May 24 21:04:40 incompatible from nokia repos? May 24 21:04:43 it was incompatible! how come... May 24 21:04:55 kaawee: you are right that it's available by default .. if you want to do it manually, http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking May 24 21:05:11 I'm just saying that compatibility zealots are bigotic a little May 24 21:05:19 what suits You is ok May 24 21:05:24 even if not compatible May 24 21:05:32 it's putting personal prefferences over merit May 24 21:05:37 i.e. feasibility etc May 24 21:05:49 I changed kp_enter mapping in 1.0 and never had any issues... May 24 21:05:54 return is feasible. May 24 21:06:00 kernel-power too. May 24 21:06:06 so go install whatever you like, but don't expect all of it to show up on cssu repo May 24 21:06:22 return is/was incompatible with some things, but is problem of those things May 24 21:06:41 powertop is incompatible with kp, but it's powertop problem May 24 21:06:50 * DocScrutinizer sighs loudly, and definitely turns away May 24 21:06:58 = using it as another reason why "kp is incompatible" is plain wrong May 24 21:06:58 I'm out May 24 21:07:06 bye bye May 24 21:07:14 popcorn ended, anyway May 24 21:07:57 I just hope that we can have such or more heated discussions in future without "idiots" flying over IRC channel etc May 24 21:08:09 as it's not a way of discussing I'm used to. May 24 21:08:18 see ya! I'm off too. May 24 21:08:35 Estel_, your image is fubar... May 24 21:08:47 just one rather funny last summary: the whole topic started when *estel_* complained about sudden increase in idle power consumption and gone apeshit when I suggested to install stock kernel first measure May 24 21:08:49 yea May 24 21:08:59 DocScrutinizer, nope May 24 21:09:10 You suggested it that I might have 1150 mhz May 24 21:09:14 anyway May 24 21:09:18 powertop works ok May 24 21:09:20 NO I DIDN'T May 24 21:09:26 and this discussion started ages ago May 24 21:09:32 ok, so missunderstanding May 24 21:09:44 btw old discussions about cssu, they echoe always. May 24 21:10:16 some people pivoting it to things they would like it to be, while it turned different way long time ago, in practice. May 24 21:10:28 whatever. May 24 21:11:05 btw we're morons, we discussed it on #maemo instead of #maemo-ssu ;) May 24 21:11:06 whatever your universe shows when you look CSSU's direction, yes May 24 21:11:49 fact is cssu got a foundation manifest May 24 21:11:51 I'm off to see why debian's xbindkeys go apeshit keeping cpu on C1 :/ May 24 21:12:10 and that's not to ignore at momentary impulse or childish whim May 24 21:12:34 manifest or not, only practice will shown how it will turn out May 24 21:12:51 and you're not going to redefine CSSU by "while it turned different way long time ago, in practice." May 24 21:13:04 long time ago, there was a mnifest that no one will ever need more than 512kb of RAM, sigh May 24 21:13:19 ...as that's your personal take on it May 24 21:13:33 and maintainers and founders will just shrug May 24 21:13:43 not mine, ffs. big chaotic body of devs and users will decide May 24 21:13:47 by practical action May 24 21:13:56 cssu shape is not forming on academic discussions May 24 21:13:57 so what May 24 21:14:05 that could only raise ego of discuttants. May 24 21:14:06 create ACME-NOVE-CSSU May 24 21:14:13 you're free to fork May 24 21:14:16 it's all matter of ad-hoc steps and practice May 24 21:14:36 the funniest thing is that I doubt fork will be ever needed ;) May 24 21:14:53 discussions are just another reality May 24 21:15:01 practice is all that matter. May 24 21:15:12 aka get things done (tm) May 24 21:15:16 actually you're right, as me and merlin1991 created cssu-extras, with a lot of input from other experienced maintainers May 24 21:15:34 so your fork won't ever be needed May 24 21:15:49 ...which, as I've said, sounds like good idea, as long as people want to spend their time on it May 24 21:15:50 doc relax :D May 24 21:15:59 and managing compatibility with main cssu May 24 21:16:06 N8 May 24 21:16:09 I'm not forking anything. May 24 21:16:28 merlin1991, btw, I hope You don't think I want to replace cssu maintainrs May 24 21:16:29 he said practice will show, and since I don't see a sudden change of maintainers in cssu I don't see a sudden change in direction :) May 24 21:16:35 I think You're all doing great work May 24 21:17:19 it's just that I deny clocking things due to personal ideology/prefference and no one is entitled to do so. Which doesn't sound like big problem now May 24 21:18:01 On "ifup usb0", I get "ifconfig: SIOCGIFFLAGS: No such device". Why? May 24 21:18:04 if anything this whole discussion has to be done with mag since he has the last word on anything cssu May 24 21:18:16 kaawee gimme a sec May 24 21:18:22 kaawee: did you choose PC Suite mode? May 24 21:18:25 I'm sure Council will support any feasible project that "provides" and CSSU is IMO one of two main such things May 24 21:18:39 Sicelo: now I did May 24 21:19:16 hmm, i'm not so sure i get you kaawee :) May 24 21:20:14 Sicelo: Well, I plugged in the USB cable, then issued "ifup usb0" (without selecting pc suite mode explicitly), with the result that no "usb0" device was available. After selection pc suite mode, also no "usb0" device is available. May 24 21:22:06 Sicelo: however, "lsmod | grep ^usb" yields "usbnet 13062 0" May 24 21:24:41 kaawee: you need to check for g_nokia or g_ether May 24 21:25:04 and g_file_storage is not allowed to be there :) May 24 21:27:13 merlin1991: there is just "g_nokia" there, no any other "g_" module May 24 21:27:30 K. I'm off till Tuesday. May be back tomorrow for the meeting if I can get access, otherwise, have a great holiday (or weekend if you're not in the US. ;) May 24 21:27:38 hm with g_nokia you "should" get usb networking May 24 21:27:56 see ya Woody May 24 21:28:35 merlin1991: I, however, have a "phonet0" and a "upnlink0" device, whatever this is May 24 21:46:22 kaawee: he meant g_ether/nokia on your pc, not N900 May 24 21:47:15 Sicelo: I'm pretty sure I meant on the n900 :) May 24 21:47:31 though I'm starting to wonder if kaawee is missing usb0 on the n900 or on his host May 24 21:50:54 O.o May 24 21:51:34 Sicelo, take look at it: May 24 21:51:35 http://sebsauvage.net/paste/?a24ca26a0cbca5b9#L5LF09Y9qd87r6BYPmaNLit/ohIUawvVUiMAk8Q/7tE= May 24 21:51:52 no xbindkeys and no acticity, yet, still 100% time in C1 May 24 21:52:00 WTF I ask? May 24 21:52:07 possible for N900 connected via PC Suite mode to have g_file_storage loaded? i'm sure the script for that unloads it automatically May 24 21:52:32 anyone knowledgeable, any ideas, judging by this powertop output? May 24 21:53:19 this bugger keeps my device @ ~50 mA idle usage... May 24 21:53:48 cpu just sit in C1, for no reason, what the?... May 24 21:54:04 Sicelo: pc suite sohuld unload mass storge May 24 21:54:12 but i had it happen that it didn't May 24 21:54:18 though that was on a fucked up setup May 24 21:54:22 interesting May 24 21:55:28 btw, kaawee, are you following the wiki? it's quite verbose May 24 21:56:15 Estel_: you nearly had to flash a day or two ago .. maybe something else broke :\ May 24 22:02:20 My N900 has my Skype password on it, which I've forgotten, and I'm trying to figure out how to retrieve it. I figure it's stored in plaintext somewhere on the device, but I'm having a hard time figuring out where/how May 24 22:05:16 why don't you simply ask for a pssword reset from skype website? May 24 22:07:02 Aha, found it, file:///home/user/.rtcom-accounts/accounts.cfg May 24 22:07:22 Sicelo: Because I think that the email address I signed up with is no longer one I have access to :( May 24 22:07:30 anyway, install 'mc-tool', then do, 'mc-tool list' to find out which account it's in, the do 'mc-tool show ' .. your password is there May 24 22:07:41 ok. you found it elsewhere :P May 24 22:07:51 Thanks for the help though! May 24 22:10:34 hmm, my .rtcomm.../accounts.cfg doesn't seems to show the password May 24 22:12:28 Estel_: grats on becoming a maemo comunity council member. May 24 22:12:34 ...i think. May 24 22:13:18 Woody14619: grats on becoming a community council member. May 24 22:13:36 wow.... so tiny on the N900... May 24 22:13:49 Woody14619: what does the 14619 mean? May 24 22:13:55 what is so tiny? May 24 22:14:09 thanks vi__. just setting up my N900 to irc in in case I get access tomorrow. May 24 22:14:28 Woody14619: irrsi, right! May 24 22:14:29 US zipcode. :) May 24 22:14:34 heh May 24 22:14:43 imma gonna find your house May 24 22:14:48 xchat actually. :) May 24 22:14:51 nah, he's on xchat.. May 24 22:15:00 xchat, bah. May 24 22:15:18 still need to setup ssl.... May 24 22:15:28 it is all about the irrsi May 24 22:15:34 ssl on irc, lulz May 24 22:15:48 Woody14619: somewhere docscrutinizer has a nice config that makes xchat kinda bearable May 24 22:15:54 XChat on N900 is the best. May 24 22:16:04 I wish it were available on Harmattan. May 24 22:16:23 I use Ychat on my system normally, so... :) May 24 22:16:29 merlin1991: too right, I dun wont no goviment spiing on my eye-arr-see May 24 22:17:28 k, off to holiday. hope to be back tomorrow for meeting. if not see you all tuesday. Have a nice holiday! May 24 22:17:39 bb May 24 22:17:53 has anyone here used dbuscron? May 24 22:26:36 Sicelo: woody: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/xchat/ May 24 23:22:28 hmm, how do I install mc-tool? I am at the root prompt, but apt-cache doesn't know about that package at all May 24 23:52:01 DocScrutinizer: you dont happen to know a very minimalistic/simple LED constant current source with low drop .. better and simpler than: http://schaltplan.de.tl/LED_Konstantstromquelle.htm May 24 23:52:03 ? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri May 25 02:59:59 2012