**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 28 02:59:58 2012
May 28 08:13:32 <Jaffa> It's amazing how many "community" members are coming forward whose name is unrecognisable.
May 28 08:13:38 <Jaffa> They should definitely get a free device.
May 28 08:19:40 <andre__> ehehe.
May 28 08:24:06 <vi_> The spam levels on the mailing list have become astronomical.
May 28 08:25:26 <vi_> I awoke to 23+ badly written emails about how much people 'love' maemo.
May 28 08:25:42 <vi_> I love my wife, I don't love maemo.
May 28 08:41:43 <cityLights> good morning
May 28 08:43:10 <ivgalvez> Estel_:ping
May 28 08:43:21 <ivgalvez> DocScrutinizer:ping
May 28 09:40:50 <ivgalvez> 10 submissions now
May 28 09:41:19 <ivgalvez> fortunately the Wiki page is now protected, thanks Andre
May 28 09:41:27 <ivgalvez> andre_
May 28 09:42:04 <ivgalvez> It seems we have opened Pandora's box
May 28 09:42:26 <andre__> ivgalvez, only against unregistered users
May 28 09:42:42 <andre__> I don't think I can define any groups or so (except for wiki sysops)
May 28 09:45:22 <ivgalvez> doh!
May 28 09:45:28 <ivgalvez> thanks anyway!
May 28 09:45:39 <ivgalvez> it's being quite time consuming today
May 28 09:45:47 <andre__> the blame game gets easier at least for non-IP changes :P
May 28 09:54:14 <vi_> So
May 28 09:54:16 <vi_> MUCH
May 28 09:54:20 <vi_> MAILING LIST
May 28 09:54:22 <vi_> SPAM
May 28 10:00:44 <MohammadAG> I would've preferred a web based form tbh
May 28 10:01:01 <MohammadAG> To apply or not to apply...
May 28 10:02:28 <andre__> and I would have prefered if people READ first what they are expected to elaborate on (past contributions).
May 28 10:02:34 <andre__> but reading is hard. :)
May 28 10:04:32 <MohammadAG> A form would have instructions above it :p
May 28 10:06:20 <andre__> But there is something for free! I thought I could give it a try at least! :P
May 28 10:09:03 <MohammadAG> Well why not?
May 28 10:11:05 <ivgalvez> ufff
May 28 10:13:20 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: Compared with "I like Maemos" (equivalents), I think you'd be in a position similar to Pali. Given the competition so far, I don't imagine you'd be hard cases (though didn't you get an N950 through the device programme?)
May 28 10:14:35 <MohammadAG> Jaffa: It states you can apply for an N9, I'd love to add NFC functionality to Sociality 
May 28 10:15:04 <MohammadAG> Or joining chats in my WIP bt-messenger rewrite
May 28 10:15:14 <MohammadAG> (using NFC)
May 28 10:15:33 <ivgalvez> MohammadAG: don't even think about it, just send your submission
May 28 10:15:42 <MohammadAG> But I fear that if I win I'll take a slot in place of someone
May 28 10:40:55 <vi_> MohammadAG: Just send an email to the ML containing:
May 28 10:41:07 <vi_> "I am MAG. N9. I need this."
May 28 10:41:23 <vi_> Most of the entrants so far are...
May 28 10:41:28 <vi_> barely legible.
May 28 10:43:17 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: Ah, true.
May 28 10:43:31 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: You would. But look at some of the other applicants ;-)
May 28 10:44:06 * Jaffa has an N9 (well, two; and hopefully a third on its way) and an N950 already.
May 28 10:44:14 <ivgalvez> I hope it will improve during the following days, :(
May 28 10:45:18 <MohammadAG> Jaffa: Woah, you bought 3?
May 28 10:48:27 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: One's a Nokia Developer Champion gift. The choice of devices wasn't very wide, so plumped for a new N9 - it was suggested they could be blue or magenta - so was thinking a case swap with my black (damaged) 64GB
May 28 10:51:33 <vi_> I like this one:
May 28 10:51:37 <vi_> Im currently a samsung employee, at their gallery, but hey i dont like any OS that they offered to us, when i hold n900 and n9(maemo devices) i find myself in a happiness, and falling in love with them, i joined maemo.org for learning and add my knowledge, now im fired from samsung gallery, because im work without passion there, now i managed my own litlle gallery, for me its not a misery, but its a glory, long live maemo, from your all i know what the meani
May 28 10:53:03 <Jaffa> Bless
May 28 10:54:25 <MohammadAG> Missed that apparently
May 28 10:55:32 <MohammadAG> Currently + fired = lack of continuity
May 28 10:59:56 <GonzoTheGreat> As I mentioned on tmo - at the moment I would be much happier if they give out bug fixes instead of devices. qt mobility (n9) is a shambles.
May 28 11:06:47 <Jaffa> GonzoTheGreat: You do know it's different people involved in each, right?
May 28 11:12:25 <GonzoTheGreat> yep. I  just find the development extremly frustrating and other people will find out too once they actually get started developing something. </vent>
May 28 11:56:37 <MohammadAG> Development for harmattan can be frustrating at times but it gives you experience :p
May 28 11:56:59 <MohammadAG> The lack of a QListWidget-like class in mtf forced me to learn how to use models
May 28 11:57:12 <MohammadAG> It took
May 28 11:57:25 <MohammadAG> Time but models are better practice
May 28 12:13:32 <ivgalvez> busy morning with self nominations
May 28 12:13:59 <ivgalvez> MohammadAG: thanks for appliying
May 28 12:14:46 <freemangordon> MohammadAG, ping
May 28 12:17:00 <MohammadAG> freemangordon: Pong, if it's CSSU related ping me in exactly 1 hour
May 28 12:17:23 <freemangordon> nope, it is pastebinit related
May 28 12:17:30 <MohammadAG> ivgalvez: You're welcome(?) :p
May 28 12:17:47 <MohammadAG> Needs an update I guess?
May 28 12:17:50 <freemangordon> MohammadAG: You are listed as package maintainer
May 28 12:17:52 <freemangordon> yep
May 28 12:18:08 <freemangordon> according to vi_, didn't test it myself
May 28 12:18:28 <MohammadAG> Probably an API break, as always
May 28 12:18:34 <freemangordon> but the API it is currently used seems to be no longer supported
May 28 12:18:37 <freemangordon> yeah :(
May 28 12:18:50 <MohammadAG> Also need an hour, got a class till then
May 28 12:18:57 <freemangordon> ok, no hurry
May 28 12:19:27 <MohammadAG> Wish someone could rewrite a same-method library for the fb widget
May 28 12:20:28 <freemangordon> I was thinking to check what is the situation with FB widget and photo uploader, will try today if I have time
May 28 12:20:59 <MohammadAG> freemangordon: I think Facebook-services uses FQL tables
May 28 12:21:09 <MohammadAG> It needs to use Graph API
May 28 12:21:13 <ivgalvez> Does anyone here know something about Allegro libraries?
May 28 12:21:32 <MohammadAG> offline_access removal doesn't break login
May 28 12:21:48 <ivgalvez> I'm porting a game and at some point a RETURN key is expected
May 28 12:22:12 <MohammadAG> Or currently logged in sessions, at least less than 60 days from now
May 28 12:22:26 <MohammadAG> ivgalvez: KP_RETURN
May 28 12:22:34 <MohammadAG> on n900 at least
May 28 12:23:05 <ivgalvez> The key expected KP_RETURN is number 67 when using Allegro, while I read a 91 when pressing the key
May 28 12:23:29 <ivgalvez> I could override it with a quick hack, but maybe it's aproblem in Allegro port
May 28 12:25:30 <freemangordon> MohammadAG: libfacebooksharingservice.so is closed source, ain't? Damn, this crap is 18k, I am going to RE it
May 28 12:26:03 <MohammadAG> freemangordon: Ldd it first
May 28 12:26:28 <freemangordon> ok
May 28 12:26:31 <MohammadAG> It should be using libfacebookservices or sth
May 28 12:26:49 <MohammadAG> Facebook's protocol is easy
May 28 12:27:11 <MohammadAG> I could write a full replacement in Qt in less than an hour
May 28 12:27:26 <MohammadAG> But it needs to be Glib based
May 28 12:28:24 <freemangordon> yeah, that is why I am going to RE the appropriate library, maybe /opt/maemo/usr/lib/libfacebookcommon.so.0.0.0
May 28 12:28:32 <freemangordon> it is 10k :D
May 28 12:29:34 <MohammadAG> dpkg -L facebook-services
May 28 12:31:00 <freemangordon> MohammadAG: gives only docs :D
May 28 12:36:08 <vi_> freemangordon: allow me to but in if I may
May 28 12:36:16 <vi_> pastebinit is indeed semi broken
May 28 12:36:26 <vi_> but only because PB have changed their API
May 28 12:36:46 <vi_> newer versions of PBinit do not address this
May 28 12:36:49 <vi_> HOWEVER!!
May 28 12:37:23 <vi_> newer versions of pastebinit (>v1.2) are compatible with a whole bunch of other pastebins
May 28 12:37:36 <vi_> that work just fine
May 28 12:37:41 <vi_> i.e. slexy.org
May 28 12:38:17 <vi_> In addition to this the debian wheezy package will install strait onto fremantle with no complaints
May 28 12:38:51 <freemangordon> vi_: anyway, it is MohammadAG who is the maintainer of pastebinit for Fremantle, I was just informing him.
May 28 12:39:07 <vi_> thus, alter pastebinit to use another pastebin as default (i.e. add the .pastebinit settings file) and all will be well
May 28 12:39:22 <vi_> freemangordon: COMPCACHE RULEZ
May 28 12:39:34 <freemangordon> vi_, how is that?
May 28 12:39:51 <vi_> It runs like a champ
May 28 12:40:04 <freemangordon> BTW i replied to the thread, maybe you want to look at my question
May 28 12:40:11 <vi_> I did
May 28 12:40:15 <freemangordon> aah, ok
May 28 12:40:19 <vi_> I admitted my ignorance
May 28 12:40:19 <freemangordon> :)
May 28 12:41:17 <vi_> I seem to recall somwhere that if you are to significantly increase nr_requests, one must alter dirty writeback and dirty expire
May 28 12:44:56 <freemangordon> could be, I am ignorant too :D. BTW setting nr_requests to 4000 seems a little extreme to me. Back in the days I was playing with those settings, it turned out 512 is he best compromise between lag/speed/etc. But you need to tweak fifo_expire... and such stuff
May 28 12:45:04 * RST38h yawns
May 28 12:45:28 * freemangordon gives him a cup of coffee
May 28 12:47:01 <vi_> freemangordon: yup, just dialled it down to 1024
May 28 12:47:50 <freemangordon> vi_, you'd better try transmittion before making the final judgement :P
May 28 12:48:01 <vi_> freemangordon: no chance.
May 28 12:48:07 <freemangordon> why?
May 28 12:48:10 <vi_> freemangordon: transmission sucks goatz balls
May 28 12:48:20 <vi_> rtorrent is king
May 28 12:48:22 <freemangordon> that is the ultimate responsiveness test
May 28 12:48:33 <vi_> I think the test is flawed
May 28 12:48:52 <vi_> rtorrent behaves perfectly well when transmission will basically kill my device
May 28 12:49:31 <freemangordon> if your n900 survives with no watchdog kicking, and you can switch between applications while transmition suck all th resources, then your VM settings are close to perfect
May 28 12:49:59 <vi_> bah, you are of course correct.
May 28 12:50:14 <freemangordon> nah, I want that in caps
May 28 12:50:16 <freemangordon> :P
May 28 12:56:54 <Hurrian> vi_, agreed, transmission kicks the phone to max freq even with just 200 max connections global
May 28 12:57:35 <Hurrian> side note: tried out your kernel tunables for compcache, it's working really nice ;)
May 28 12:59:10 <Pali> has somebody heard about qwerty12?
May 28 12:59:34 <Hurrian> he's been gone ever since the volume control app
May 28 13:04:51 <vi_> Pali: qwerty12 diesd in a horrific fire RIP
May 28 13:05:11 <vi_> when I say fire I mean flame war
May 28 13:05:32 <Pali> after his last tmo post I did not see him
May 28 13:05:52 <vi_> that is because he quit
May 28 13:06:19 <vi_> he was so enraged by the noob whinging and Nokia's failure to deliver on promises.
May 28 13:07:19 <teotwaki> Pali: you can shoot him an email, he replies most of the time (actually, every single time I sent him an email he replied).
May 28 13:07:34 <Pali> ok
May 28 13:07:46 <teotwaki> ~seen qwerty12
May 28 13:07:49 <infobot> qwerty12 <~qwerty12@31.185.237.96> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 171d 19h 26m 9s ago, saying: '?'.
May 28 13:08:02 <teotwaki> that's actually less than I expected.
May 28 13:09:07 <vi_> They say if you listen on a darknight, when the mmon is fat you can still here the incandescent rage betwatting nokia from beyond the other side.
May 28 13:09:15 <vi_> ^moon
May 28 13:09:47 <teotwaki> They say if you take a second to read what you've just typed, you can remove all those pesky typos that ruin your discourse.
May 28 13:11:18 <vi_> -_-
May 28 13:11:25 <vi_> google has ruined my spelling.
May 28 13:11:55 <fastlane``> computers have ruined my spellings in general
May 28 13:12:35 <vi_> In fact I only had one spelling error.  And it was more of a keyboard slip.
May 28 13:13:45 <freemangordon> vi_, 128MB for compcache is not a good idea, I was just able to bring my device to its knees . sygic, ovi maps, microb opening FB 2-3 more light applications and it entered swap trashing inferno
May 28 13:14:19 <freemangordon> to the point i was not able to close any application and to free some RAM
May 28 13:15:56 <freemangordon> vi_, also have in mind I am running lots of stuff thumb compiled, so memory usage is lower than on "stock" device
May 28 13:17:08 <vi_> freemangordon: bah
May 28 13:17:39 <Hurrian> freemangordon: I just filled /dev/ramzswap0, size 128M. All's still fine.
May 28 13:18:32 <vi_> I just filled my pants.
May 28 13:18:33 <Hurrian> although, i could imagine the device going batshit insane if you try to launch another program and it starts to have to page out of ramzswap
May 28 13:20:15 <freemangordon> Hurrian, it is not a problem with ramzswap being full, the problem comes when you have no enough free RAM to keep executables in memory
May 28 13:20:37 <ivgalvez> liballegro4.2 freezed my device when trying to apply fullscreen
May 28 13:22:31 <freemangordon> Hurrian,... so kernel constantly discards executable pages from memory, load another, etc, etc
May 28 13:24:30 <ShadowJK> I found compcache with backing swap is brutal, because the access pattern seems to be optimized for making flash go slow
May 28 13:24:37 <freemangordon> vi_, AIUI anything more than lets say 64MB-80MB for disksize_kb could potentialy lead to device being totaly unresponsive under heavy load
May 28 13:25:05 <vi_> I have 4 browser windows, conky, SMS, xterm, sygic, ovi maps, angry birds opera (1 page) and marble maps open.
May 28 13:25:16 <Hurrian> freemangordon, ah. mega swap thrashing.
May 28 13:25:22 <vi_> chugging along
May 28 13:25:29 <freemangordon> ShadowJK, yeah, using backing swap makes the device look like using floppy for swapping :)
May 28 13:25:46 <ShadowJK> Also last time I tried it, the next day my N900 had rebooted just from sitting idle on my desk :)
May 28 13:26:05 <freemangordon> vi_, try to open FB
May 28 13:26:12 <freemangordon> from within microb
May 28 13:26:26 <freemangordon> ShadowJK, what was the swap size?
May 28 13:26:43 <ShadowJK> i forget, probably 128 :)
May 28 13:26:49 <freemangordon> yeah, too much
May 28 13:27:11 <freemangordon> Hurrian, definitely ;)
May 28 13:28:06 <vi_> I do not have a facebook account...
May 28 13:28:12 <vi_> however FB.com seems to load
May 28 13:28:39 <freemangordon> well, open youtube, or another heavy site
May 28 13:29:19 <ShadowJK> theinquirer.net, open 5-10 news articles
May 28 13:31:19 <Hurrian> freemangordon: I find that fb is slow not because of lack of RAM, but because of all that javascript
May 28 13:31:38 <Hurrian> browserd's at 58% CPU rendering Home
May 28 13:31:39 <teotwaki> Hurrian: those are two different ways of saying the same thing
May 28 13:32:28 <teotwaki> Hurrian: if you believe JS isn't RAM hungry, think again. Even more so if your device has to swap and allocate a lot.
May 28 13:33:08 <vi_> ok +2 youtubes has finally caused it to start bogging down
May 28 13:33:19 <ShadowJK> it's a difference between cpu spending majority of time busy and cpu spending majority of time in iowait though :P
May 28 13:33:25 <vi_> still an impressive score
May 28 13:33:51 <vi_> that is most of my heaviest stuff open all at once
May 28 13:33:59 <freemangordon> Hurrian, i've never said FB is slow, it is not. But once you enter swap trashing, there is no escape
May 28 13:34:30 <freemangordon> vi_ agree, but by lowering compcache size by half, you will prevent that
May 28 13:35:16 <freemangordon> I mean - it wont be as fast as with 128MB, but you won't risk a device reboot
May 28 13:35:27 <freemangordon> maybe it depends on usage pattern thoug
May 28 13:35:29 <Estel_> heh, my 3 years old son loves to play Frogatoo on N900, maybe I should convince him to submit for device too
May 28 13:35:53 <merlin1991> hrhr
May 28 13:36:28 <Estel_> And someone though, that self-submitting may be bad becauise of shy submitters
May 28 13:36:47 <Estel_> I can only imagine what we would ghet as self-submissions + submissions by 3rd party
May 28 13:36:56 <freemangordon> Estel_, he might actually get one, I heard he has relatives in the council :P
May 28 13:37:02 <Estel_> ;P
May 28 13:37:35 <Estel_> considering current nominees - except few ones - he would hasd big chances even without it
May 28 13:37:38 <vi_> How are people subposed to vote for the worthy recipients when their submission will be lost in so much badly written trash?
May 28 13:37:41 <Hurrian> side note: just noticed that JIT is not enabled by default in browserd (javascript.options.kit.chome/content)
May 28 13:37:47 <Estel_> they are not supposed to vote
May 28 13:37:49 <Estel_> at all
May 28 13:38:33 <Estel_> fortunately, we have gone north kroea way, and we're deciding who will get device authoritary.
May 28 13:39:09 <vi_> great
May 28 13:39:12 <Estel_> and, during discussion about it, everyone seemed to love idea, as it saves us "Hello, my name is josh, please vote for me as I love maemo" PM's
May 28 13:39:14 <vi_> I will take 2 please.
May 28 13:39:36 <Estel_> ...so Mohammad and freeman have chances for device, as they';re too busy wuith developing, to do lobbing
May 28 13:39:36 <freemangordon> vi_, you won't , it is too late for you :P
May 28 13:39:39 <ivgalvez> vi_: I' tracking all the submissions
May 28 13:40:07 <ivgalvez> harder than expected I must say
May 28 13:40:08 <Estel_> Jaffa, pong
May 28 13:40:15 <vi_> ivgalvez: no shit
May 28 13:40:23 <ivgalvez> but no one will be lost 
May 28 13:41:07 <Estel_> well, it's like democracy, idiots are also supposed to vote or candidate
May 28 13:41:26 <Estel_> we must put all those monthy python's flying circus into wiki
May 28 13:41:31 <Estel_> will be interesting to read
May 28 13:41:32 <ivgalvez> some of the submissions are quite embarrasing, but they have the right to submit anyway
May 28 13:41:36 <Estel_> yep.
May 28 13:41:44 <Estel_> ivgalvez, You're doing awesome work
May 28 13:41:56 <Estel_> i'm little late today, could You please tell me WTF was with wiki page?
May 28 13:42:02 <Estel_> someone edited it in bloated way?
May 28 13:42:35 <vi_> Estel_: some douchehandle tried to rig the votes by deleting everyone else.
May 28 13:42:38 <ivgalvez> Estel_: yes, the user ibrakalifa messed some other candidates while trying to add himself
May 28 13:42:55 <ivgalvez> everything is in place now
May 28 13:42:55 <Estel_> vi_, funny, as wiki is only "poster" to announce what we have on internal list
May 28 13:43:09 <Estel_> some idiot really though it's voting mechanism embedded, or what?
May 28 13:43:42 <Estel_> if it will become too troublesome to maintain, we will just move to closed thread on TMO
May 28 13:43:46 <ivgalvez> for me the best way to track it is to watch changes. I will discard any changes not made by Council members
May 28 13:43:48 <Estel_> updated via mdoerators once per week
May 28 13:44:00 <Estel_> ivgalvez, no way to make it auto?
May 28 13:44:25 <ivgalvez> apparently not, Andre_ already protected the page against anonymous changes
May 28 13:44:27 <Estel_> it's a PITA, You got better things to do, probably
May 28 13:44:32 <Estel_> ok
May 28 13:44:50 <Estel_> if someone edit this page without right to, on malicious purposes, and do it as registered member...
May 28 13:44:54 <Estel_> repoort him to admin for bans
May 28 13:45:11 <Estel_> if it won't ceas ein few days, we will just put "poster" into locked gallery
May 28 13:45:17 <MohammadAG> you could make it automatic
May 28 13:45:23 <Estel_> MohammadAG, how?
May 28 13:45:23 <MohammadAG> it'd just be a pita though
May 28 13:45:28 <Estel_> I see
May 28 13:46:08 <MohammadAG> make a daemon that monitors your email, saves a cookie from your wiki login, when an email comes, pick up N9 or N950, if both present say any, add that to wiki through an internally controlled webpage, (QWebPage if using Qt)
May 28 13:46:21 <MohammadAG> by the time you're done with the daemon, submissions would be over
May 28 13:46:32 <Estel_> I was rather talking about autopmatically reverting changes to wiki page
May 28 13:46:36 <Estel_> not done by council members
May 28 13:46:45 <Estel_> should be easier, but still overkill
May 28 13:46:50 <DocScrutinizer51> haha
May 28 13:46:54 <Estel_> putting name sin lsit isn't problem, idiots editing wiki were.
May 28 13:47:17 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, what is so funny? "Hello I'm 12 years old and I like N900, could You give me N950 please please please"? :P
May 28 13:47:28 <DocScrutinizer51> not allowing anonymous edits would already help a lot
May 28 13:47:34 <Estel_> it's already done
May 28 13:47:42 <Estel_> andree should get N9 jsut for that :P
May 28 13:47:49 <Estel_> s/jsut/just/
May 28 13:47:49 <infobot> Estel_ meant: andree should get N9 just for that :P
May 28 13:47:54 <teotwaki> Estel_: who is that?
May 28 13:48:06 <Estel_> guy that blocked wiki for anonymous edits
May 28 13:48:18 <Estel_> honestly, I belive that whole wiki should be protected from anonymous edits
May 28 13:48:50 <Estel_> MohammadAG, I can't see Your pastebin
May 28 13:48:53 <Estel_> it seems to be down
May 28 13:49:35 <Hurrian> Estel_, when maemo users are the target for wiki, and most (all? does SSO work?) maemo.org users have wiki account, I agree
May 28 13:49:37 * teotwaki puts on some Beastie Boys, and dives back into debugging g++.
May 28 13:49:47 <MohammadAG> debugging g++?
May 28 13:49:56 <teotwaki> yeah, I discovered a bug recently
May 28 13:50:08 <MohammadAG> next up, debugging gdb
May 28 13:51:46 <Estel_> "Im so proud when hold my first N900, reading, and watching youtube everyday about maemo(dualboot, etc), and then finally managed to get one after saving my money and i love it!! , after 4 months hold n900, disaster comings, my son play it around and throw my n900 into the water"
May 28 13:51:50 <Estel_> I think it isn';t submission?:P
May 28 13:51:59 <Estel_> someone is jsut telling us his life story
May 28 13:52:04 <ShadowJK> I don't need a free n950 or N9, but i'd very much like nokia to sell me a new N900 :P
May 28 13:52:20 <Estel_> anyway, he didn't specified which one ehs interested inm ,so it's *not* submission
May 28 13:52:25 * DocScrutinizer51 starts screaming on output of 'mount' on a current linux :-O
May 28 13:52:31 <teotwaki> there's seems to be some poorly handled exception handling when encapsulating the topological_sort on variable acyclic graphs, MohammadAG.
May 28 13:52:32 <Estel_> ivgalvez, you're strict and don't accept submissions that lack requiments, yep?
May 28 13:52:59 <Estel_> ShadowJK, I can sell you N900 in ideal condition with USB port soldered down :p
May 28 13:53:00 <vi_> Estel_: cool the nerdjets spazz.
May 28 13:53:05 <MohammadAG> teotwaki, you lost me at when
May 28 13:53:06 * DocScrutinizer51 writes imount, the interactive mount info tool
May 28 13:53:16 <vi_> Estel_: you have about 2 more weeks of this horseshit to wade through.
May 28 13:53:26 <Estel_> 3, actually
May 28 13:53:26 <teotwaki> :)
May 28 13:53:43 <DocScrutinizer51> ShadowJK: +++++++++++
May 28 13:54:04 <teotwaki> I wouldn't mind buying an N950 to be honest.
May 28 13:54:20 <Estel_> teotwaki, no problem, only 2000$
May 28 13:54:22 <Estel_> ;)
May 28 13:54:36 <DocScrutinizer51> Estel_: you forgot a 0
May 28 13:54:43 <Estel_> ;P
May 28 13:54:56 <teotwaki> s/an/a new/
May 28 13:54:58 <infobot> teotwaki meant: I wouldn't mind buying a new N950 to be honest.
May 28 13:55:01 <vi_> Estel_: sure, just send me bank account number and login and I will wire you the monies RITE NOW.
May 28 13:55:29 <Estel_> ivgalvez:
May 28 13:55:30 <Estel_> "For my love of maemo, i want to participate in maemo developing as a tester, or whatever they wanna say, i really falling love to the n950 at the first sight, long live maemo"
May 28 13:55:32 <DocScrutinizer51> vi_: no shit, sherlock
May 28 13:55:35 <teotwaki> MohammadAG: did you notice I filed a bug report against the Linux kernel/doc?
May 28 13:55:37 <Estel_> tthings like that aren't valid submissions
May 28 13:55:41 <Estel_> as epr requiments
May 28 13:55:44 <Estel_> as per*
May 28 13:55:51 <DocScrutinizer51> check prices for e.g. TI gaze
May 28 13:55:59 <DocScrutinizer51> TI zoom-II
May 28 13:56:10 <teotwaki> Estel_: I think somedude's submission was hilarious.
May 28 13:56:15 <DocScrutinizer51> 2000$ for N950 is a bargain
May 28 13:56:30 <merlin1991> DocScrutinizer51: it's just bribing a judge ;)
May 28 13:56:35 <DocScrutinizer51> err blaze
May 28 13:56:49 <Hurrian> DocScrutinizer, at that price point, might as well buy enough kit to make pandaboard portable ;)
May 28 13:56:53 <teotwaki> Maybe I could score one, just by going "I'd like to port liqbase to the next platform Gary (RIP) never got to see. I will send the device to the next developer as soon as the task is completed".
May 28 13:57:35 <Estel_> "Yes, thats great. I love maemo too and my head is full of many ideas about apps. But i dont have a device and i prefer the N950 because of the keyboard. I use it really often on my N900. "
May 28 13:57:38 <Estel_> that isn';t submissions too
May 28 13:57:43 <DocScrutinizer51> http://www.slashgear.com/texas-instruments-omap-blaze-on-sale-now-1485657/
May 28 13:57:50 <Estel_> he';s just saying what he would like to mhave
May 28 13:58:36 <vi_> Estel_: how many registered users on TMO?
May 28 13:58:45 <Estel_> No idea.
May 28 13:59:19 <DocScrutinizer51> and if you wait a bit longet, you even can insert G7400 LTE module into Blaze
May 28 13:59:23 <DocScrutinizer51> ;-D
May 28 14:00:14 <MohammadAG> teotwaki, nope
May 28 14:00:28 <Hurrian> the TI-phones come in dual-screen configurations now?
May 28 14:00:46 <Hurrian> I remember when they had ridiculous guts in a blackberry-like form factor
May 28 14:01:03 <teotwaki> MohammadAG: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43249 (oh, and shut up stupid bot, you won't find this bug in bmo).
May 28 14:01:04 <povbot> 04Bug 43249: was not found.
May 28 14:01:14 <teotwaki> told you so.
May 28 14:01:20 <DocScrutinizer51> ;-P
May 28 14:01:31 <MohammadAG> now if I had +o I would've handled that more maturely
May 28 14:01:36 <merlin1991> povbot relally needs better triggers
May 28 14:01:36 <povbot> merlin1991: Error: "relally" is not a valid command.
May 28 14:01:49 <DocScrutinizer51> MohammadAG: LOL
May 28 14:01:52 <teotwaki> MohammadAG: go for it.
May 28 14:02:00 <teotwaki> haha
May 28 14:02:01 <MohammadAG> MohammadAG: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43249
May 28 14:02:15 <MohammadAG> /kick teotwaki 
May 28 14:02:36 <Estel_> oh, I've come i to 2 first valid submissions!
May 28 14:02:36 <merlin1991> it's especially confusing if you state a bug from some project that has a valid id on the bmo tracker
May 28 14:02:41 <MohammadAG> naw, I wanted to take over the channel and say N9 OR #MAEMO GETS IT!
May 28 14:02:53 <DocScrutinizer51> hahaha https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43249 let's see if timeout wouldn't do the same
May 28 14:02:54 <povbot> 04Bug 43249: was not found.
May 28 14:02:58 <DocScrutinizer51> ooh, nope
May 28 14:03:04 <merlin1991> Estel_: err what?
May 28 14:03:18 <MohammadAG> oh, the bug's confirmed
May 28 14:03:20 <DocScrutinizer51> XEN SUCKS!!!!
May 28 14:03:31 <DocScrutinizer51> opensuse xen SUUUUUUCKS
May 28 14:03:39 <Estel_> merlin1991, I mean that soi far, i've found only 3 valid suybmissions. I'm keeping reading
May 28 14:03:53 <merlin1991> I've seen 4 so far
May 28 14:04:04 <teotwaki> MohammadAG: I would've just typed /cs recover #maemo
May 28 14:04:14 <Estel_> Who the hell is
May 28 14:04:16 <Estel_> Muhammad Ayaz <azadpaki@gmail.com
May 28 14:04:19 <DocScrutinizer51> anybody any idea what friggin kernel to get for xen dom0?
May 28 14:04:44 <teotwaki> Estel_: somedude, he's been active on tmo
May 28 14:04:54 <merlin1991> DocScrutinizer51: go debian ;)
May 28 14:05:13 <Estel_> teotwaki, yea.
May 28 14:05:20 <ivgalvez> Estel_: I'm not discarding anyone that has properly sent his submission to mailing list
May 28 14:05:30 <teotwaki> ivgalvez: you ought to.
May 28 14:05:30 <Estel_> hardly to the point of receiving device, but.. Well, we will compare him with others ;0
May 28 14:05:37 <Estel_> ivgalvez, You're right
May 28 14:05:39 <teotwaki> ivgalvez: send the device to the ones with the oldest user ids on maemo
May 28 14:05:39 <Estel_> but "properly"
May 28 14:05:41 <ivgalvez> Estel_: that doesn't mean they will receive a device
May 28 14:05:47 <DocScrutinizer51> I'm almost tempted: http://forums.opensuse.org/english/get-technical-help-here/install-boot-login/468353-opensuse-12-1-cant-boot-into-xen-error-13-invalid-unsupported-executable-format.html
May 28 14:05:51 <teotwaki> ivgalvez: or, those who appear most often on the "random community member" page.
May 28 14:05:57 <Estel_> ivgalvez, I know, but please, do not put on wiki submissions that are not in line with requiments
May 28 14:06:10 <Estel_> I.E ones that fail to state which device they preffer (if any) or satisfied by any
May 28 14:06:17 <Estel_> or submissions, that fail to state that they're submissions
May 28 14:06:19 <MohammadAG> teotwaki, N9 FOR ME AND TEOTWAKI OR #MAEMO GETS IT
May 28 14:06:26 <MohammadAG> teamwork :p
May 28 14:06:27 <Estel_> like "I would like to have N950, because it have keyboard"
May 28 14:06:28 <Estel_> fine
May 28 14:06:34 <teotwaki> MohammadAG: I can take down maemo.org :P
May 28 14:06:37 <Estel_> "I would like to have new car"
May 28 14:06:43 <Estel_> doesn't mean I'm submitting for Toshiba program
May 28 14:06:47 <DocScrutinizer51> aaaaah
May 28 14:06:50 <teotwaki> Toshiba makes cars?
May 28 14:07:00 <teotwaki> I thought they made laptops?
May 28 14:07:00 <Estel_> requiments clearly state what is required to be included in submissions (and what is optional)
May 28 14:07:06 <ivgalvez> we said that the resume wasn't mandatory, now we are f**ed
May 28 14:07:07 <merlin1991> hm should have added the because keyboard line to my email since that actually is my rationale :D
May 28 14:07:10 <Estel_> teotwaki, whatever ;P
May 28 14:07:33 <Estel_> ivgalvez, it's ok, I don't want their reasoning
May 28 14:07:35 <MohammadAG> ivgalvez, this channel is PG-17, you can say fucked without censoring it :p
May 28 14:07:39 <Estel_> I mean lacvk of mandatory things like
May 28 14:07:48 <Estel_> "I would liek to submit for..." (and such loike)
May 28 14:08:34 <ivgalvez> MohammadAG: I thought it was more funny that way
May 28 14:08:35 <Estel_> oh, I suck at writing today
May 28 14:08:49 <teotwaki> Estel_: don't worry, it's not just today.
May 28 14:08:53 * MohammadAG ponders setting this as his tmo avatar http://salestores.com/stores/images/images_747/771FSS.jpg
May 28 14:09:02 <MohammadAG> what? it has my initials
May 28 14:09:15 <Estel_> ivgalvez, you're doing awesome hard work processing all this submissions
May 28 14:09:19 <Estel_> dont take me wrong, I'm not criticizing
May 28 14:09:26 <ivgalvez> no worries
May 28 14:09:34 <DocScrutinizer51> oh fsck, shitstorm for free hardware
May 28 14:09:37 <Estel_> I just mean that we should, IMO, be strict about submissions failing to provide required statements/fields
May 28 14:09:55 <merlin1991> MohammadAG: go for it :D
May 28 14:10:05 <DocScrutinizer51>  gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme
May 28 14:10:16 <DocScrutinizer51> for FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
May 28 14:10:29 <MohammadAG> teotwaki, a /kick is free right?
May 28 14:10:29 <DocScrutinizer51> honestly, what did you expect?
May 28 14:11:02 <merlin1991> DocScrutinizer51: well I'd tell you that you'd be a valid candidate if it werent for the fact that you hate harm :D
May 28 14:12:43 <Jaffa> Estel_: ACK
May 28 14:13:29 <RST38h> Heh... NOK is $2.82 on the market. And their flagship store in Moscow just changed to Samsung.
May 28 14:14:00 <jaska> hah
May 28 14:14:09 * RST38h remembers when NOK just hit $6 and everyone thought it was terrible
May 28 14:14:48 * RST38h further wonders what those corporate investors who approved of Elop are thinking now.
May 28 14:15:03 * merlin1991 wonders when to buy in to NOK
May 28 14:15:07 <Jaffa> "Ooops"
May 28 14:15:18 <RST38h> I am *sure* they think "Our darling Elop has Plan, wonderful Plan!"
May 28 14:15:26 <Jaffa> merlin1991: I bought a bit when it hit $3
May 28 14:15:35 <Jaffa> merlin1991: Might buy more if it hits $2 ;-)
May 28 14:15:43 <Hurrian> merlin1991: word on the street is that the Lumia 610 doesn't run angry birds and skype.
May 28 14:15:46 <DocScrutinizer51> merlin1991: I would hate the time I had to spent for waiting for DHL
May 28 14:15:49 <MohammadAG> what if it goes down even after 2
May 28 14:15:54 <RST38h> merlin: Unless you have inside info about someone buying Nokia out, the right time is probably "never"
May 28 14:16:06 <merlin1991> RST38h: :D
May 28 14:16:14 <Jaffa> MohammadAG: Then Nokia's buyout should give more of a payoff. But it's a risk.
May 28 14:16:26 <Jaffa> Very much in the "big gamble" category
May 28 14:16:29 <RST38h> If you do have the inside info though, then yeah, by all means
May 28 14:16:48 <merlin1991> no inside info :/
May 28 14:17:04 <RST38h> Then forget the poor elopsized finns =(
May 28 14:17:23 <merlin1991> also nfc how to buy in to nok
May 28 14:17:42 <RST38h> And think of your own company working on the next gen mobile platform :)
May 28 14:17:43 <DocScrutinizer51> Jaffa: I virtually bought @ 7.04 EURO
May 28 14:17:51 <jaska> elop on a pole
May 28 14:18:02 <RST38h> Because the market will not stay with 2 platforms for long
May 28 14:18:04 <DocScrutinizer51> Jaffa: now I'm convinced I'll never touch stock market :-P
May 28 14:18:24 <RST38h> Doc: Well, depends
May 28 14:18:47 <MohammadAG> if only I bought apple stocks 4 years ago
May 28 14:18:51 <RST38h> Doc: Buying into gold in 2001 was totally predictable and totally good for example
May 28 14:19:10 <RST38h> And Mohammad is right, you could buy Apple many times in the past, and there wasn't much risk then
May 28 14:20:11 * MohammadAG looks at 2 year chart on the iPhone
May 28 14:20:44 <RST38h> And all you have got is a crappy iPhone, Moahammad! Should be ashamed of yourself, etc etc
May 28 14:20:58 <MohammadAG> July, less than 315
May 28 14:21:12 <MohammadAG> April this year, 636
May 28 14:21:20 <Estel_> hey, maybe we shoukld convince quim
May 28 14:21:33 <MohammadAG> to buy apple?
May 28 14:21:56 <Estel_> to "give" away Nokia stock ;P
May 28 14:22:01 <Estel_> to all of those submitters
May 28 14:22:05 <Estel_> it would be cheap...
May 28 14:22:10 <ShadowJK> uh
May 28 14:22:11 <Estel_> ...effective...
May 28 14:22:14 <RST38h> his own nokia stock yu mean? =)
May 28 14:22:18 <Estel_> and we will keep devices for ourself
May 28 14:22:20 <DocScrutinizer51> what's the easy hacker aproach to neuter suspend-to-ram for a whole linux system?
May 28 14:22:33 <ShadowJK> you what
May 28 14:22:38 <Hurrian> DocScrutinizer51: disable it in kernel config
May 28 14:22:46 <ShadowJK> usually people struggle to make it work
May 28 14:22:49 <MohammadAG> that's not the easy hacker way :p
May 28 14:23:02 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer51: neuter or disable entirely? <.<
May 28 14:23:21 <DocScrutinizer51> nah, it simply doesn't work, I won't bother to fix shit, and I won't build a new kernel
May 28 14:23:22 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer51: could forcefully keep setting the RTC wakeup timer to a few seconds into the future…
May 28 14:23:34 <luke-jr> o
May 28 14:23:38 <DocScrutinizer51> I thought about "rm `which suspend`"
May 28 14:23:51 <ShadowJK> pm-suspend
May 28 14:23:56 <DocScrutinizer51> thanks
May 28 14:23:57 <luke-jr> there's a suspend program⁈⁈ I always just echo to the /sys
May 28 14:24:17 <ShadowJK> yeah it handles hw and bios bugs and such
May 28 14:24:28 <ShadowJK> "quirks"
May 28 14:24:41 <MrPingu> Hi
May 28 14:24:55 * luke-jr only uses suspend/hibernate to add new hardware without rebooting <.<
May 28 14:24:59 <Estel_> I got question
May 28 14:25:06 <Estel_> ShadowJK, DocScrutinizer  and others
May 28 14:25:09 <sid_> what OS/windowmanager
May 28 14:25:10 <Estel_> what is *exactly*
May 28 14:25:18 <Estel_> a state, when we invoke on N900
May 28 14:25:26 * ShadowJK doesn't use suspend at all, but I do use hibernate
May 28 14:25:33 <Estel_> echo mem /sys/power/state
May 28 14:25:36 <Estel_> or smth like that
May 28 14:25:42 <ShadowJK> it's C4
May 28 14:25:52 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: suspend-to-RAM is useful for buggy hardware that just needs a reset ;)
May 28 14:25:52 <Hurrian> "deep sleep"
May 28 14:25:55 <Estel_> C4? shouldn't CPU enter it on it's own?
May 28 14:26:03 <Estel_> yea,. I noticed that it's suspend, but...
May 28 14:26:06 <luke-jr> yes
May 28 14:26:14 <ShadowJK> yes but if your system is bugged you force it
May 28 14:26:18 <luke-jr> never heard of using suspend/hibernate on N900
May 28 14:26:38 <ShadowJK> and it forces stuff to stop running
May 28 14:26:59 <ShadowJK> I've never tried it, does it actually wake up too?
May 28 14:27:45 <luke-jr> I hope I "win" a N950; my N900 seems to be on its last leg :/
May 28 14:27:56 <luke-jr> is there a judge to bribe?
May 28 14:27:58 <luke-jr> (j/k‼!)
May 28 14:28:09 <Estel_> ...when ShadowJK, ye,a it works reasonably wlel...
May 28 14:28:12 <DocScrutinizer51> luke-jr: or it fscks up hw that doesn't like that kind of "reset"
May 28 14:28:20 <DocScrutinizer51> just like for me and my t500
May 28 14:28:26 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer51: well, I remove it from the system first
May 28 14:28:28 <Estel_> hm, but question here
May 28 14:28:29 <luke-jr> and rescan the PCI bus after
May 28 14:28:34 <Estel_> If I have gsm enabled
May 28 14:28:39 <luke-jr> also, I only ever use the hardware in a KVM
May 28 14:28:42 <Estel_> it automatically kick off device from C4
May 28 14:28:46 <Estel_> I mean suspend to sleep
May 28 14:28:51 <Estel_> CPu enters C4 as it should
May 28 14:29:00 <Estel_> I need to sue offline mode before mem sys/power/state
May 28 14:29:07 <DocScrutinizer51> less /usr/lib/pm-utils/bin/pm-action
May 28 14:29:14 <Estel_> in this state, it uses ~3 mA per hour
May 28 14:29:24 <luke-jr> it'd be nice if someday handhelds had power savings of watches :D
May 28 14:29:30 <DocScrutinizer51> Estel_: per hour??
May 28 14:29:37 <Estel_> yes
May 28 14:29:53 <Estel_> well, it's not a surprise, as off-line device without it uses ~7 mA per hour
May 28 14:30:02 <DocScrutinizer51> dank, so after one day it uses 150mA then? ;-)
May 28 14:30:03 <ivgalvez> anyone with knowledge on liballegro4.2? I'm getting system freeze when enabling fullscreen (640x480) at 32bpp, segfault in fullscreen at 16bpp and work fine with windowed 640x480 at 32bpp
May 28 14:30:18 <ShadowJK> lol
May 28 14:30:33 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, after 24 hours in sleep my device uses ~70-80 mAh
May 28 14:30:49 <DocScrutinizer51> mAh != mA
May 28 14:30:58 <Estel_> yea, what's the problem?
May 28 14:31:06 <Estel_> durin sleep, power usage is ~3mA
May 28 14:31:06 <ShadowJK> iirc in idle and offline mode my N900 does about 3-4mA when idle (almost idle, an x-term and bq27200 on 60s interval)
May 28 14:31:09 <DocScrutinizer51> if it's using 6mAh/h...
May 28 14:31:19 <Estel_> soa fter 34 hours it eats up ~0-80 mA
May 28 14:31:24 <Estel_> 24 hours*
May 28 14:31:38 <Estel_> scratch ythat. I mena 70-80 mAh
May 28 14:31:41 <Estel_> less of battery power
May 28 14:31:47 <Estel_> after 24 hours in deep sleep
May 28 14:31:51 <Estel_> on properly configured device
May 28 14:32:05 <DocScrutinizer51> this wind power plant can provide electric energy for 500 houses per year
May 28 14:32:11 <DocScrutinizer51> \o/(
May 28 14:32:13 <Estel_> Actually, i'm using it for ages, for overnight sleep - device wakes up in ~2 seconds
May 28 14:32:49 <Estel_> N900 implementation haw few flaws, though.
May 28 14:33:08 <Estel_> first of all, not only slide-lock wake sit up
May 28 14:33:13 <Estel_> but also power buttonm and camera button
May 28 14:33:17 <teotwaki> holy shit, char E[1<<25]="              ; } }     { { } { { ; ; {     } } { { ;   { { {       { { } ; }   { { ; {   { { ;     { } ; ; ; {     ; ; ; }   } ;   } { { ;   } }   ; } } ; ; }     { ; } } { } } }       } }   ; { { } } } ;   } } } {   }   ; ; ; {     } ; { { {   ; {   ; } } {   { { } { { ; ; { {   } } { { ;   { { {       { { } ; }   { { ; {   { { ;     { } ; ; ;       ; ;   }   } ;   } { { ;   } }   ;   } ; ; }     { ; }   
May 28 14:33:17 <teotwaki> } } } }       } }   ; { { }   ; ;   }   ; {   }   ; ; ; {     } ; {   {   ; {   ; } } {   { { } {   ; ; { {   } } { {   { { { {       { {     ;   {   ; {   {   ;     {         {     ; ;     { } ;     ",*a[40],*q=E+20,*T=E+1080;
May 28 14:33:18 <Estel_> so now way to keep it in pocket without waking up
May 28 14:33:36 <merlin1991> Estel_: don't forget camera lid wakes it up aswell
May 28 14:33:37 <teotwaki> S(0)V(A[2]&7)-2*(A[2]&8),V A[3],S(4)S(6)q+=8) q+=22;
May 28 14:33:44 <Estel_> 2nd flaw - GSM wifgi,m bluetooth or any other comm wakes it up after immediately, so yoiu can do it only in offline mode, obviously
May 28 14:33:54 <merlin1991> teotwaki: wtf is that? :D
May 28 14:33:57 <Estel_> merlin1991, true, but I'm talking about things easy to click by mistake
May 28 14:33:58 <teotwaki> C code.
May 28 14:34:04 <MohammadAG> merlin1991, syntax test
May 28 14:34:43 <teotwaki> merlin1991: http://www.ioccc.org/2011/vik/vik.c
May 28 14:34:44 <MohammadAG> and it checks out, all weird stuff is between ""
May 28 14:35:01 <DocScrutinizer51> Estel_: the whole suspend-to-ram thing been evaluted by speedevil ~2 years ago
May 28 14:35:20 <Estel_> I know. So?
May 28 14:35:39 <DocScrutinizer51> and yes, it's known that it takes ~3mA, and the downside is unsolicited msgs from modem will resume it all the time
May 28 14:36:02 <Estel_> I wonder if it would be possible to fix it
May 28 14:36:18 <DocScrutinizer51> in theory it is
May 28 14:36:20 <Estel_> in kernel, maybe?
May 28 14:36:36 <DocScrutinizer51> there are commands to block unsolicited msgs
May 28 14:36:40 <DocScrutinizer51> in modem
May 28 14:36:50 <spark666> i didnt saw the entire conversation,but where i need to submit to win a n950?:D
May 28 14:36:54 <DocScrutinizer51> at least *some* modems can do that
May 28 14:36:58 <teotwaki> spark666: who the fuck are you?
May 28 14:37:04 <ShadowJK> lol
May 28 14:37:05 <vi_> spark666: they are all gone
May 28 14:37:10 <teotwaki> spark666: and do you deserve an n950?
May 28 14:37:15 <spark666> vi_: tnx
May 28 14:37:15 <vi_> spark666: first come first served
May 28 14:37:24 <spark666> teotwaki: why are you rude?
May 28 14:37:25 <vi_> spark666: I got atleast 3.
May 28 14:37:27 <spark666> i just asked
May 28 14:37:38 <freemangordon> yeah, too late, even vi_ cannot get one :D
May 28 14:37:38 <teotwaki> So did I?
May 28 14:37:45 <vi_> spark666: it is a contentious issue that has caused much friction.
May 28 14:37:55 <DocScrutinizer51> o/ freemangordon
May 28 14:38:04 <teotwaki> also, I'm an arse, so I'm rude to whomever I want :P
May 28 14:38:25 <spark666> teotwaki: a-ha
May 28 14:39:14 <merlin1991> also spark666 see http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Awards
May 28 14:39:22 <merlin1991> and don't trust trolls on irc ;)
May 28 14:39:28 <spark666> merlin1991: tnx
May 28 14:39:46 <teotwaki> merlin1991: you calling me a troll?
May 28 14:39:57 <freemangordon> nah, he was talking about me
May 28 14:40:02 <vi_> teotwaki: are you claiming you are not?
May 28 14:40:08 <teotwaki> well, yeah.
May 28 14:40:10 <teotwaki> I'm helpful.
May 28 14:40:17 <vi_> A troll would say that.
May 28 14:40:53 <teotwaki> I made it very clear that unless said devil's spark has accomplished serious things for the Maemo community, it is useless to apply.
May 28 14:41:01 <vi_> what would docscrutiniser say if I were to ask hime if you are a troll?
May 28 14:41:16 <teotwaki> how about I kick your ass and we're done with this discussion?
May 28 14:41:32 <teotwaki> I may have been less eloquent when conveying said message, but still, my point stands.
May 28 14:41:33 <vi_> come at me bro.
May 28 14:41:45 <teotwaki> nuff said.
May 28 14:42:16 <vi_> I will beat you so hard even your grand kids will be smarting.
May 28 14:42:30 <vi_> In fact it will be such a beating you will not be able to reproduce.
May 28 14:42:48 <vi_> It will be your grand kids in a parallel reality.
May 28 14:42:55 <teotwaki> vi_: Do you seriously want to go there?
May 28 14:44:33 * MohammadAG ponders about microwaving some popcorn
May 28 14:44:37 <NIN101> in this "conversation", there can only be winners :D
May 28 14:44:46 <teotwaki> losers, but some more than others.
May 28 14:44:51 <DocScrutinizer51> ooooh popcorn
May 28 14:45:01 * MohammadAG pops some
May 28 14:45:06 * DocScrutinizer51 starts the microwave
May 28 14:45:09 * teotwaki sets up a popcorn stand and makes quick buck
May 28 14:45:22 <teotwaki> s/makes/makes a/
May 28 14:45:23 * MohammadAG demands free community award popcorn
May 28 14:45:38 <teotwaki> I read that as "demands community awarded porn"
May 28 14:46:35 <MohammadAG> we offer that?
May 28 14:46:36 * luke-jr wonders what's up with all the MCA nominations with no accomplishments at all…
May 28 14:47:04 <teotwaki> luke-jr: you're one of the few I'd support.
May 28 14:47:28 <teotwaki> ivgalvez: Can I voice my support of a few candidacies?
May 28 14:47:36 <teotwaki> ivgalvez: will that have any kind of effect?
May 28 14:48:02 <MohammadAG> need, harmattan, SDK
May 28 14:48:12 * MohammadAG stabs merlin1991 
May 28 14:49:00 <ivgalvez> teotwaki: nope
May 28 14:49:09 <ivgalvez> it's Council decission
May 28 14:49:15 <teotwaki> decision even
May 28 14:49:31 <merlin1991> MohammadAG: ...
May 28 14:49:37 <teotwaki> fair enough, better not to have a popularity contest.
May 28 14:50:24 <MrPingu> indeed, filters out all non-contributing
May 28 14:50:36 <merlin1991> MohammadAG: what exactly do you need?
May 28 14:50:44 <MohammadAG> merlin1991, it's a secret :P
May 28 14:50:50 <teotwaki> Also, doing things purely "past achievements" is completely stupid to be honest.
May 28 14:50:57 <merlin1991> then why stab me :D
May 28 14:51:09 <MohammadAG> merlin1991, you told me to delete /scratchbox
May 28 14:51:24 <merlin1991> after you cleansed everything and backed up your sb home dirs
May 28 14:52:10 <merlin1991> you're free to install the harm sdk again, just make sure not to pollute your cssu build env ;)
May 28 14:52:24 <vi_> teotwaki: surely it is the best indication?
May 28 14:52:51 <MohammadAG> merlin1991, that's the problem, reinstalling it
May 28 14:53:02 <merlin1991> err why?
May 28 14:53:11 <MohammadAG> not everyone has a highspeed internet connection
May 28 14:53:18 <MohammadAG> well, in dorms at least
May 28 14:53:21 <merlin1991> get the scratchbox debs, install them, dl a rootstrap extract and done :D
May 28 14:53:34 <merlin1991> and ofc do all that with a 3GB/s downstream :D
May 28 14:53:46 <teotwaki> ivgalvez: Maybe we should posthumously attribute one to lcuk? He single-handedly inspired a generation of maemoers at onedotzero. Or maybe I could run as well? I wrote a couple of apps, helped dev/run liqbase for a while, I also helped release the injection wifi driver, I used to be a tmo mod, etc, yet, by current standards, my contributions amount to a load of bollocks on IRC...
May 28 14:53:52 <teotwaki> vi_: ^
May 28 14:54:17 * RST38h is all for voting lcuk into the council
May 28 14:54:25 <teotwaki> heh
May 28 14:54:29 <teotwaki> +1 RST38h 
May 28 14:54:41 <teotwaki> I mean, people who *did* a lot for the community, there's heaps.
May 28 14:55:02 <vi_> people who did a lot AND still contribute.
May 28 14:55:16 <teotwaki> well, that's not defined, is it?
May 28 14:55:16 <vi_> i.e. qwerty12, probably not eligable?
May 28 14:55:25 <teotwaki> why not?
May 28 14:55:32 <RST38h> No way he can be less active in this role than other candidates
May 28 14:55:35 <teotwaki> Is the idea to attract talented devs? Get them back to the platforms?
May 28 14:55:50 <teotwaki> Or is it just a "so long and thanks for all the fish" movement?
May 28 14:55:59 <vi_> Because he says he hates everyone and is not interested anymore.
May 28 14:56:06 <teotwaki> he doesn't say that.
May 28 14:56:27 <vi_> Titan, grandfather of the power kernel.
May 28 14:56:31 <vi_> not eligable.
May 28 14:56:38 <teotwaki> eligible*
May 28 14:56:55 <teotwaki> He may have stated that, but the feeling I get from the few emails I've exchanged with him are very different -- he's grown, and changed. Prod him, and he just might come back.
May 28 14:57:12 <vi_> then more power to him
May 28 14:57:46 <teotwaki> I'm just saying, past achievements only are a pretty poor performance indicator.
May 28 14:58:01 <vi_> They are a good place to start though.
May 28 14:58:14 <teotwaki> If the same had been done two or three years ago when MohammadAG just joined, we wouldn't have seen a lot; yet he's now one, if not the, maemo star dev.
May 28 14:58:29 <teotwaki> *cough* and I showed him his moves... *cough*
May 28 14:58:41 <vi_> you are almost angling for pro-life type arguments here.
May 28 14:58:45 <MohammadAG> I must say I would've sucked without lcuk
May 28 14:59:08 <MohammadAG> alterego and Venemo for help with C++
May 28 14:59:14 <Jaffa> teotwaki: Future promises have also been shown to be pretty poor too. Look at what ppl promise to get a free device and then never deliver.
May 28 14:59:28 <teotwaki> Jaffa: I never said future promises were a good indicator.
May 28 14:59:31 <Jaffa> teotwaki: IOW, all ways suck. The current approach seems to have produced more suckers
May 28 15:00:03 <teotwaki> This being said, I think explaining the real reasoning behind this device giveaway wouldn't be such a bad thing.
May 28 15:00:08 <MohammadAG> merlin1991, 85% :D
May 28 15:00:17 <teotwaki> Seriously, is the idea to attract known good devs back to the platform?
May 28 15:00:29 <teotwaki> If so, send one to qwerty, titan, fanoush.
May 28 15:00:47 <MohammadAG> Jebba too
May 28 15:00:48 <vi_> teotwaki: GREAT IDEA
May 28 15:01:12 <teotwaki> If on the other hand, they're just sending away devices to get rid of them
May 28 15:01:18 <teotwaki> then make it a quick draw
May 28 15:01:18 <vi_> distribute them to all the legendary devs who have moved on.  Then, effectivly NO ONE benefits.
May 28 15:01:41 <teotwaki> how do you know?
May 28 15:02:07 <teotwaki> those guys at least would have the ethics to send it to the next dev down the line if they're not going to do anything with them. The same can't be said about no-names on the mailing list
May 28 15:02:38 <vi_> Just like he had the ethics to unlock power kernel so pali could contiue development on it?
May 28 15:02:53 <MohammadAG> unlock it?
May 28 15:03:04 <MohammadAG> Pali just encountered a maemo.org bug, it's not titan's fault
May 28 15:03:06 <vi_> add maintainer, whatever.
May 28 15:03:11 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, could do that
May 28 15:08:05 <MrPingu> I think the best way to determine who deserves a price is by looking how is the person is contributing in general. Someone who joined in '11 had less time to do a (good) past deed than someone who joined in '10.  
May 28 15:11:48 <Pali> freemangordon, see: http://maemo.org/packages/view/kernel-power-flasher/
May 28 15:11:56 <teotwaki> And for those who joined in 2007?
May 28 15:11:57 <Pali> kernel-power-flasher v50 is now in extras!
May 28 15:12:06 <Pali> promote button today worked!
May 28 15:12:12 <Pali> I do not belive
May 28 15:12:20 <vi_> Pali: get in my son!
May 28 15:12:21 <Raimu> :)
May 28 15:12:23 <merlin1991> Pali: you're delirious
May 28 15:12:37 <MrPingu> Pali, Thank you it had quite some time enough votes :D
May 28 15:12:41 <Raimu> The structure of time/space has Altered.
May 28 15:12:59 <merlin1991> the Space/Time continuum has been broken, ohnoes!
May 28 15:13:08 <teotwaki> MohammadAG: seems the bug I found was actually a bug in the use of variadic templates in boost, not g++.
May 28 15:13:09 <Pali> also kernel-power-modules http://maemo.org/packages/view/kernel-power-modules/ :)
May 28 15:13:27 <teotwaki> though, g++ wasn't being helpful, clang managed to sort it out without issues.
May 28 15:13:34 <Pali> and kernel-power package too :D http://maemo.org/packages/view/kernel-power/
May 28 15:13:47 <MrPingu> Pali, Awesome!
May 28 15:14:02 * teotwaki resets his beastie boys playlist, and switches onto developing his new call distribution algorithm :)
May 28 15:14:03 <Pali> X-Fade fixed repository problems now?
May 28 15:14:23 <vi_> although I can still crash n900 with KP50 and smart reflex enabled.
May 28 15:14:36 <Raimu> Pali: What about -settings ?
May 28 15:14:51 <Pali> I clicked on promote button now for -settings
May 28 15:15:02 <Pali> wait about 1 hour to see if it is working
May 28 15:15:37 <Pali> booting is promoted too: http://maemo.org/packages/view/kernel-power-bootimg/
May 28 15:15:39 <Raimu> Now it might be a whole different user report ballpark.
May 28 15:16:17 <Raimu> I mean, extras users might have new things to say about kp50. It's been many version hikes since the last extras kp.
May 28 15:16:39 <Raimu> Pretty cool.
May 28 15:17:37 <vi_> If I put the system under heavy load AND then watch the '2 headed shark attack' trailer with cutetube AND have SR vdd1 on I get an insta-reboot.
May 28 15:17:53 <vi_> No vdd1 on and it is ok.
May 28 15:22:05 <Pali> kernel-power packages are really in Maemo Extras repository, see: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle/free/k/kernel-power/
May 28 15:22:24 <Pali> and settings too: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle/free/k/kernel-power-settings/
May 28 15:22:54 <Pali> so now kernel-power v50 with kernel-power-settings 0.14 are in Maemo Extras!
May 28 15:23:46 <Pali> I should write this day to my diary :D
May 28 15:24:14 <Raimu> vi_: That new compcachin' thread sounds like an elaborate april fools trick considering how promising the settings testing now looks.
May 28 15:24:55 <Raimu> One for the "sounds too good to be true" files, I mean.
May 28 15:28:58 <vi_> Raimu: how do you mean
May 28 15:29:01 <DocScrutinizer51> vi_: I seem to have missed the point of your argumentation. after all we know SR is broken in hardware
May 28 15:29:19 <DocScrutinizer51> that's why Nokia never enabled it
May 28 15:29:46 <vi_> DocScrutinizer51: I was under the impression they never enabled it because they never finished the driver for it.
May 28 15:29:56 <DocScrutinizer51> nah
May 28 15:30:02 <vi_> but I guess you are now going to tell me how wrong I am?
May 28 15:30:18 <luke-jr> what is SR?
May 28 15:30:26 <DocScrutinizer51> for all I know SR is merely hw-based
May 28 15:30:27 <Raimu> vi_: Well, it has me drooling for one
May 28 15:30:36 <DocScrutinizer51> luke-jr: SmartReflex
May 28 15:30:54 <vi_> Raimu: compcache was always going to be bikg, we just never figured the right settings to use it.
May 28 15:30:54 <DocScrutinizer51> luke-jr: here particularly the automagic dynamic core voltage tuning
May 28 15:31:11 <Raimu> vi_: Yeah, and my experiences with ramz were dismal in the past so I was kind of giving up on that.
May 28 15:31:26 <MrPingu> It works for me 100% allright with dsp profile
May 28 15:31:31 * luke-jr is pretty sure he's used compcache on N810 and/or N900
May 28 15:31:51 <freemangordon> Pali, lets go to the bar and celebrate
May 28 15:31:53 <MrPingu> Only reboots is still with writing/downloading large files
May 28 15:32:14 <vi_> Raimu: test it yourself and make your own conclusion.  For now I am keeping it on to try and find ways to brake my current settings.
May 28 15:32:32 <Raimu> vi_: I will - and thanks for the updates. Keep reporting!
May 28 15:32:42 <freemangordon> Pali, you said you are belever, now i have no option but to join the club :D
May 28 15:32:54 <vi_> Raimu: dont thank me, thank the guys who made it work.
May 28 15:32:59 <freemangordon> vi_, is your device OC when you have a reboot with SR turned on?
May 28 15:33:04 <vi_> yes
May 28 15:33:29 <ShadowJK> i just wish there was better prioritization of ramz.. typically my N900 has 128M in swap that's basically never touched.. for ramzswap to be useful, this seldomly used data should sit on flash not in ram, and heavy swapping go to ramzswap.. however, with the backing swap option  that seems to be designed for this, the access patterns to flash become so horribly random that flash slows down to like 20kbytes/sec...
May 28 15:33:40 <freemangordon> well, increase your DSP voltage then, i've never said SR will be 100% stable on 100% of the devices when there is OC
May 28 15:33:40 <DocScrutinizer51> well, and maybe undervolted as well ;-)
May 28 15:33:53 <Pali> freemangordon, so now can Nokia release their closed source fremantle parts :D:D:D
May 28 15:34:06 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer51, UV does not work when SR is enabled
May 28 15:34:06 * ShadowJK 's n900 is mostly immune to "reboot during big writes" syndrome
May 28 15:34:09 <MrPingu> That can be fixed with better i/O settings, though. Your ramzswap settings  definitely  are tempting to try, vi_
May 28 15:34:17 <DocScrutinizer51> surprise surprise
May 28 15:34:43 * freemangordon 's n900 is 100% immune to "reboot during big writes"
May 28 15:34:59 <DocScrutinizer51> ShadowJK: believe it or not, I *never* encountered such reboot
May 28 15:35:17 <vi_> I think the real test is decompressing easy debian image WHILE torrenting with transmission.
May 28 15:35:20 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer51, try to unpack easy debian stuff on the device
May 28 15:35:38 <DocScrutinizer51> well, I did similar stuff
May 28 15:36:01 <DocScrutinizer51> like trying to copy 12GB from eMMC to uSD
May 28 15:36:07 <freemangordon> that work everytime if your VM settings are not tweaked
May 28 15:36:16 <freemangordon> nah, it is not the same
May 28 15:37:02 <ShadowJK> Mine isn't, after some amount of uptime, about 3-4 weeks, big writes will result in emmc stalling to 0 writes/minute indefinitely, also seems to stall uSD. Device works as long as everything I do is already in ram or on nand. everything that needs a swapin or pageing from /opt hangs though, and eventually the amount of hung stuff becomes too big for the watchdogs, which reboot device. :)
May 28 15:37:17 <Pali> now I'd like know, who fixed repository & package interface problem?
May 28 15:37:26 <Pali> X-Fade? or somebody else?
May 28 15:37:49 <DocScrutinizer51> I'd like to know who messed up wiki
May 28 15:37:55 <Pali> or is maemo.org self repairing infrastructure?
May 28 15:38:29 <Pali> and also self destructing :D
May 28 15:38:46 <Pali> what is with wiki?
May 28 15:40:03 <freemangordon> vi_, add a little juice to your DSP using /sys/power/sr_vdd1_dsp_boost (i.e. try with 200, max is 250, default 125) and try again to see if it will reboot
May 28 15:40:39 <DocScrutinizer51> layout or CSS fsckd up, not sure if it's exactly wiki. Anyway lately we got complaints about that "maemo BETA" which is supposed to be gone since years afaik.
May 28 15:40:54 <DocScrutinizer51> I can't find the search field anymore in wiki
May 28 15:41:07 <DocScrutinizer51> on upper right. It's still there but not showing
May 28 15:42:30 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer51, SR has its HW part, but it relies on efuse "parameters" and that seems to be screwed up on n900. Though I can bet it is TI, not Nokia to blame
May 28 15:42:52 <DocScrutinizer51> sure
May 28 15:43:00 <freemangordon> BTW did you try it?
May 28 15:43:06 <freemangordon> you run KP50 AFAIK
May 28 15:43:31 <DocScrutinizer51> and my guts feeling tells me the real problem is somewhere in circuit design, regarding buffer capacitors on Vcore, trace impedances, whatnot
May 28 15:43:49 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer51: negative
May 28 15:43:54 <DocScrutinizer51> freemangordon: me? KP50?
May 28 15:43:55 <DocScrutinizer51> nope
May 28 15:44:16 <freemangordon> not eunning KP at all?
May 28 15:44:21 <freemangordon> *running
May 28 15:44:35 <MohammadAG> freemangordon, it unpacks and slows down the whole device
May 28 15:44:38 <MohammadAG> but the device keeps running
May 28 15:45:07 <freemangordon> give it some time. do you have swappolube installed?
May 28 15:45:24 <DocScrutinizer> t900:/usr/local/sbin# uname -a
May 28 15:45:26 <DocScrutinizer> Linux t900 2.6.28.10power46 #1 PREEMPT Sun Dec 12 03:11:24 EET 2010 armv7l unknown
May 28 15:45:59 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer, no need to stick with that, KP46 has more bugs that you can imagine
May 28 15:46:11 <freemangordon> trust me (tm)
May 28 15:46:30 <DocScrutinizer51> the point is t900 is fubar
May 28 15:46:45 <DocScrutinizer51> apt refuses to install or deinstall anything
May 28 15:47:11 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer51: :(
May 28 15:47:24 <DocScrutinizer51> messed up dependencies
May 28 15:47:57 <Pali> use aptitude
May 28 15:47:57 <DocScrutinizer51> and it serves me well for testing an occasional hostmode scriptie
May 28 15:48:11 <DocScrutinizer51> Pali: HAHA
May 28 15:48:22 <Pali> aptitude solved all my dependency problems :D
May 28 15:48:42 <DocScrutinizer51> I might get the aptitude.deb if only wget was installed on t900
May 28 15:48:51 <freemangordon> Pali, how do you think, can we upstream my patches for secure PPA API?
May 28 15:49:23 <Pali> DocScrutinizer51, you can download aptitude to computer and transfer via usb mass storage mode
May 28 15:49:42 <DocScrutinizer51> might be possible
May 28 15:49:42 <Pali> freemangordon, what so you mean under "upstream"?
May 28 15:49:42 <vi_> freemangordon: I tried 250, insta reboot
May 28 15:50:32 <freemangordon> vi_, what is DSP frequency?
May 28 15:50:38 <Pali> to upstream kernel 3.x?
May 28 15:50:43 <freemangordon> Pali, yep
May 28 15:50:59 <freemangordon> vi_, does it reboot if not OC
May 28 15:51:52 <Pali> clone some arm/omap git tree or linux-next or linus tree, apply your patch, test if working on n900 and send it to linux-omap
May 28 15:52:24 <vi_> freemangordon: one second. still booting!
May 28 15:52:57 <freemangordon> Pali, since when 3.x kernel boots on n900?
May 28 15:53:05 <Pali> you can also test it on rescueos/meego kernel (rx51 board files was not very changed after 2.6.35/37)
May 28 15:53:26 <Pali> and rescueos/meego kernel booting fine
May 28 15:53:35 <vi_> swapoff /dev/ramzswap0 && sleep 1
May 28 15:53:35 <vi_> rmmod /ramzswap && sleep 1
May 28 15:53:35 <vi_> insmod /lib/modules/current/ramzswap.ko disksize_kb=131072 && sleep 1
May 28 15:53:35 <vi_> swapon /dev/ramzswap0 && sleep 1
May 28 15:53:35 <vi_> swapoff /dev/mmcblk0p3 && sleep 1 && swapon /dev/mmcblk0p3 && sleep 1
May 28 15:53:38 <vi_> echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/dirty_ratio
May 28 15:53:40 <vi_> echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/dirty_background_ratio
May 28 15:53:43 <vi_> echo 100 > /proc/sys/vm/dirty_writeback_centisecs 
May 28 15:53:45 <vi_> echo 100 > /proc/sys/vm/dirty_expire_centisecs 
May 28 15:53:48 <vi_> echo 32 > /proc/sys/vm/min_free_kbytes 
May 28 15:53:50 <vi_> echo 99 > /proc/sys/vm/swappiness 
May 28 15:53:53 <vi_> echo 200 > /proc/sys/vm/vfs_cache_pressure 
May 28 15:53:55 <vi_> echo 0 > /proc/sys/vm/page-cluster
May 28 15:53:58 <vi_> echo 1024 > /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/nr_requests
May 28 15:54:00 <vi_> echo 1024 > /sys/block/mmcblk1/queue/nr_requests
May 28 15:54:03 <vi_> echo 0 > /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/iosched/slice_idle
May 28 15:54:05 <vi_> echo 0 > /sys/block/mmcblk1/queue/iosched/slice_idle
May 28 15:54:08 <vi_> echo 32 > /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/iosched/quantum
May 28 15:54:10 <vi_> echo 32 > /sys/block/mmcblk1/queue/iosched/quantum
May 28 15:54:13 <vi_> echo 80 > /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/iosched/fifo_expire_sync
May 28 15:54:14 <Raimu> ...
May 28 15:54:15 <vi_> echo 80 > /sys/block/mmcblk1/queue/iosched/fifo_expire_sync
May 28 15:54:18 <vi_> echo 180 > /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/iosched/fifo_expire_async
May 28 15:54:21 <vi_> shit
May 28 15:54:23 <vi_> sorry
May 28 15:54:26 <vi_> wrong xterm
May 28 15:55:20 <Pali> NIN101, what kernel is used for rescueos?
May 28 15:55:26 <freemangordon> Pali, forward-port sould be a piece of cake, i made those board-specific, my question was more general. i.e. do you think it will be approved (by whoever approves that shit, Lunus?) for upstreaming
May 28 15:55:50 <freemangordon> *Linus
May 28 15:55:57 <NIN101> 2.6.37 from meego summer edition, with a few different kernel options
May 28 15:56:08 <Pali> NIN101, ok
May 28 15:56:35 <Pali> freemangordon, I think this could be upstreamed
May 28 15:56:47 <Pali> you only needs to write proper patch
May 28 15:57:44 <freemangordon> BTW I have enough eggs in my basket right now. So playing with 3.x will have to wait
May 28 15:58:02 <Pali> ok
May 28 15:58:46 <freemangordon> Pali, but if you (or whoever reads that) feels like he can do it, I am all for it.
May 28 15:59:01 <freemangordon> i.e. upstreaming the secure PPA API for n900
May 28 15:59:38 <Pali> I'm doing on upstreaming bq2415x_charger driver and rx51 u-boot and u-boot bootmenu
May 28 15:59:52 <Pali> its lot
May 28 16:00:04 <freemangordon> Pali, how do you test your patches?
May 28 16:00:18 <freemangordon> for kernel
May 28 16:00:25 <Pali> bq2415x driver I'm testing on 2.6.28
May 28 16:00:43 <freemangordon> and that could be upstreamed?
May 28 16:00:46 <freemangordon> wow
May 28 16:00:57 <Pali> power supply interface was not changed
May 28 16:01:32 <Pali> only some glue for isp and board code needs to be tested on something higher that 2.6.28
May 28 16:34:18 <MohammadAG> merlin1991, woo, download stoppde
May 28 16:34:41 <DocScrutinizer51> stopped is bad, finished is good
May 28 16:38:52 <DocScrutinizer51> freemangordon: Pali: I think sending a patch to LKML is not the automatic approval for that patch to go upstream - at least it shouldn't
May 28 16:39:07 <Pali> yes
May 28 16:39:15 <Pali> send it as RFC
May 28 16:40:00 <Pali> you get opinions of other developers about your patch
May 28 16:40:18 <Pali> also what is needed to change for upstreaming...
May 28 16:41:01 <DocScrutinizer51> yeah, and in  this case these opinions might well be "please separate it to decent single patchsets for each functional entity, and we'll look at it again maybe"
May 28 16:42:37 <DocScrutinizer51> you can't hope to send a pile'o'patches without proper explanation in clear text in the first of the set of mails, and just dealing with one particular aspect in each patchset
May 28 16:43:41 <DocScrutinizer51> I've seen some guys doing this kind of upstreaming effort for openmoko kernel
May 28 16:43:52 <DocScrutinizer51> took like 6 months
May 28 16:43:59 <DocScrutinizer51> "fulltime"
May 28 16:45:05 <DocScrutinizer51> and AIUI our pretty nice lis302dl driver still isn't upstream, as there's some crappy joystick handler kernel module of the same name already
May 28 16:46:02 <DocScrutinizer51> same for (!!) bq27k.ko
May 28 16:46:17 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer, you'd better look at the patches before concluding "pile'o'patches" :). https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/kernel-cssu/commit/ce27033560ddf253f25738513bcdab5f059440c6
May 28 16:46:26 <DocScrutinizer51> though for other reasons afaik
May 28 16:46:40 <DocScrutinizer51> I'm not concluding
May 28 16:46:46 <DocScrutinizer51> just handwaving
May 28 16:48:17 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer51, BTW if you have knowledge/will I will be glad to have your helping hand on that.
May 28 16:48:38 <DocScrutinizer51> freemangordon: btw looking at that git commit I don't see *any* of the mandatory commenting and separating I mentioned sabove
May 28 16:50:08 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer51, the commit is in CSSU repo, hopefully kernel.org guys still does not approve the commits there
May 28 16:50:32 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer51, exactly, it stopped
May 28 16:50:32 <MohammadAG> The rootstrap is bitch to download :/
May 28 16:50:40 <MohammadAG> especially when you had over 60% downloaded and need to start over :/
May 28 16:51:45 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer51: and it is separated, actually the whole patch is in 2 commits, separated, the one I posted is not separateable
May 28 16:51:58 <Pali> please help me with collecting atags for u-boot: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84560
May 28 16:53:09 <DocScrutinizer51> freemangordon: I just meant each patchset on LKML et all needs a header like http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.network/153680
May 28 16:53:56 <DocScrutinizer51> explaining what the whole thing does, etc
May 28 16:54:13 <DocScrutinizer51> you won't get any review without such header
May 28 16:54:33 <freemangordon> hmm, never seen stuff like that on LKML
May 28 16:54:37 <DocScrutinizer51> except of course the comment "please read patch howto"
May 28 16:55:19 <DocScrutinizer51> freemangordon: you may get away without such header for mere bugfix patches
May 28 16:55:55 <DocScrutinizer51> and even then you need a referrence to the ticket, or alternatively an explanation of the bug it's supposed to fix
May 28 16:56:22 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer51, thanks for the info, anyway I won't have time to go through this anytime soon
May 28 16:56:38 <DocScrutinizer51> that's what I thought
May 28 16:56:43 <DocScrutinizer51> a pity
May 28 16:57:06 <DocScrutinizer51> it's a friggin PITA to upstream a huge batch of aged patches
May 28 16:58:07 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer51, we are talking about 100-200 lines of board specific code. BTW the fact that it fixes upstreamed errata workaround could be used to ease the process
May 28 16:58:25 <DocScrutinizer51> sure
May 28 16:58:29 <DocScrutinizer51> good point
May 28 16:58:50 <DocScrutinizer51> and I have to confess I missed the start of your chat with pali
May 28 16:59:04 <DocScrutinizer51> so I don't know what's the patch(es) in question
May 28 16:59:23 <freemangordon> yeah, as usual you don't read what I write :P
May 28 16:59:28 <DocScrutinizer51> it sounded like you were going to upstream KP50
May 28 16:59:35 <freemangordon> WHAT?
May 28 16:59:46 <freemangordon> nooo waaay
May 28 16:59:53 <DocScrutinizer51> lol, yeah
May 28 17:00:18 <DocScrutinizer51> is it about your thumb thing?
May 28 17:00:22 <freemangordon> yep
May 28 17:00:36 <DocScrutinizer51> good move to upstream it, so it might get proper review
May 28 17:00:41 <freemangordon> but it actually eaxposes PPA calls to kernel
May 28 17:01:46 <freemangordon> well, might think to try to upstream it when there is nothing more interesting to do :D
May 28 17:02:02 <DocScrutinizer51> I'll gladly review your mail to LKML before you send it, so we might avoid some things better not to do so the masters up there don't feel annoyed
May 28 17:02:13 <freemangordon> ok, thanks
May 28 17:02:48 <freemangordon> now I just have to find someone to write the mail, i'll gladly send it to you for a review :D
May 28 17:02:58 <DocScrutinizer51> hehe
May 28 17:02:58 <cehteh> hihi
May 28 17:07:20 * DocScrutinizer51 idly wonders what those 11 (living) temperature values in system/sensors/thinkpad-isa-0000 might be
May 28 17:08:04 <MohammadAG> so, two ways to have status menu plugins on harmattan
May 28 17:08:15 <MohammadAG> 1) Patch systemui and incept the package, hopefully this works
May 28 17:08:23 <DocScrutinizer51> actually only 9, two are from system/sensors/acpitz-virtual/processor*
May 28 17:08:32 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer51, talking about temperature: What was the correct sensor i have to read to get the battery temperature. I am going to finish libbmeipc these days
May 28 17:08:53 <MohammadAG> 2) Find out how systemui is started, patch libqtcore4.so or whatever it's called, so QRegExp(QString) returns QRegExp() and then LD_PRELOAD the library
May 28 17:08:55 <DocScrutinizer51> err, ACD4 or sth
May 28 17:09:04 <DocScrutinizer51> ADC4
May 28 17:09:31 <DocScrutinizer51> twl5030_adc
May 28 17:09:37 <freemangordon> from /dev/twl4030-adc
May 28 17:09:39 <freemangordon> ok
May 28 17:09:52 <freemangordon> do it needs conversion?
May 28 17:09:57 <DocScrutinizer51> for sure
May 28 17:10:04 <DocScrutinizer51> nobody knows which
May 28 17:10:15 <DocScrutinizer51> except bme and Nokia
May 28 17:10:18 <DocScrutinizer51> :-P
May 28 17:10:55 <freemangordon> hmm
May 28 17:10:57 <MohammadAG> temperature?
May 28 17:11:01 <freemangordon> yep
May 28 17:11:15 <MohammadAG> you could read the value and measure the approximate real temperature and try to find a pattern
May 28 17:11:26 <DocScrutinizer51> your best bet is to heat or cool the battery incl whole device to maybe 0°C and 40°C
May 28 17:11:28 <MohammadAG> I doubt they're multiplying by device IMEI, for example :p
May 28 17:11:39 <MohammadAG> OH FUCK
May 28 17:11:40 <DocScrutinizer51> then insert battery into device, and do a readout after 60S
May 28 17:11:40 <MohammadAG> he was here
May 28 17:11:55 <freemangordon> damn
May 28 17:12:00 <freemangordon> I missed him too
May 28 17:12:04 <DocScrutinizer51> HUH
May 28 17:12:06 <DocScrutinizer51> ?
May 28 17:12:10 <MohammadAG> * javispedro has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
May 28 17:12:12 <freemangordon> javispedro
May 28 17:12:14 <DocScrutinizer51> dang
May 28 17:12:50 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer, any clue what type of sensor is that?
May 28 17:12:52 * DocScrutinizer51 hopes for next wintertime to see javispedro around more often
May 28 17:12:54 <MohammadAG> wish infobot had a $USER is here, $USER_WHO_NEEDS_$USER ping
May 28 17:13:00 <DocScrutinizer51> freemangordon: NTC
May 28 17:13:29 <freemangordon> because we can only hope for a linear readout
May 28 17:13:37 <DocScrutinizer51> alas NTC are each a bit different
May 28 17:13:51 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer51, CAL?
May 28 17:13:56 <DocScrutinizer51> and usually that readout won't be linear
May 28 17:14:15 <DocScrutinizer51> nah, one type differs from next one
May 28 17:14:27 <DocScrutinizer51> in one build/batch they are quite identical
May 28 17:15:09 <DocScrutinizer51> so get a proper curve with 3 or 4 support points, then get coefficients for a polynom
May 28 17:15:20 <DocScrutinizer51> done
May 28 17:15:30 <freemangordon> but there should be calibration values stored somewhere. So my question was "are those values stored in CAL"
May 28 17:15:43 <DocScrutinizer51> I think it must be 2nd or max 3rd order polynom
May 28 17:15:59 <DocScrutinizer51> no, I guess those are hardcoded
May 28 17:16:05 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer51, I know the theory :)
May 28 17:16:34 <freemangordon> but I am afraid i have to RE a part of BME too
May 28 17:16:40 <freemangordon> to get those
May 28 17:17:04 <DocScrutinizer51> nah, get your support points from real world tests like suggested by MohammadAGand me
May 28 17:17:47 <DocScrutinizer51> -10°C, 15°C, 40°C, 55°C
May 28 17:19:29 <freemangordon> hmm. BME definitely interacts with CAL
May 28 17:19:36 <DocScrutinizer51> Nokia might have the data to include a PID correction even, to give faster accurate readouts, but we probably don't really need that
May 28 17:19:46 <DocScrutinizer51> yes, it does
May 28 17:19:56 <DocScrutinizer51> but I guess for some battery status shite
May 28 17:20:28 <freemangordon> nah, PID correction wouldn't make sense, the process of heating is not so fast
May 28 17:20:30 <DocScrutinizer51> there's a HUGE number of BME records in CAL
May 28 17:21:21 <DocScrutinizer51> usually not that fast, but if *ever* it is, you damn better hit the big red buttton FAST
May 28 17:21:45 <freemangordon> :D
May 28 17:21:47 <freemangordon> yeah
May 28 17:22:51 <DocScrutinizer51> since Nokia is chicken with their batteries since they encountered that mega-desaster...
May 28 17:23:26 <DocScrutinizer51> I *guess* they back when decided to outtsource BME, incl all liability
May 28 17:24:25 <DocScrutinizer51> which in turn might be main reason they *cannot* disclose the bme source
May 28 17:26:23 <DocScrutinizer51> "listen hitachi, we're going to buy 20 million batteries from you. It's your call to tell what hw requirements those cells have for mainenance circuitry, and it's up to you to provide software and take all responsibility"
May 28 17:26:24 <ShadowJK> My N810 is acting up :(
May 28 17:26:38 * ShadowJK suspects emmc or, more likely, the uSD is dying
May 28 17:27:15 <DocScrutinizer51> well that's at least an easy one to trage
May 28 17:27:19 <DocScrutinizer51> triage*
May 28 17:27:23 <ShadowJK> well
May 28 17:28:59 <ShadowJK> You know, the performance of all the original genuine BP-5L I've ha in N810 and N800 has been abysmal. The charging system abuses the batteries to death, or then they're pretty low quality to start with
May 28 17:29:27 <DocScrutinizer51> both I guess
May 28 17:29:39 <ShadowJK> BL-5J did much better in N900 over a 2 year period
May 28 17:29:59 <DocScrutinizer51> it's LiIon, not LiPo, no?
May 28 17:30:13 <DocScrutinizer51> bl-5j that is
May 28 17:30:28 <ShadowJK> same thing
May 28 17:30:36 <DocScrutinizer51> not exactly
May 28 17:30:51 <ShadowJK> if it's not a cylindrical pressure vessel: LiPo
May 28 17:31:04 <DocScrutinizer51> LiPo are of higher energy density but flimsy quality
May 28 17:31:56 <ShadowJK> I doubt whether regular Li-Ion has ever been used in any cellphone
May 28 17:31:58 <DocScrutinizer51> I always thought there are both LiIon and LiPo in flat cells
May 28 17:32:44 <DocScrutinizer51> well, my Y2000 6210 battery definitely been no LiPo but plain LiIon
May 28 17:33:02 <DocScrutinizer51> lasted at least 9 years of daily usage
May 28 17:33:40 <ShadowJK> The big difference in energy density comes from Li-Po not needing metal container and safety valve, the "Polymer" bit keeps it together so you can pack it a pouch
May 28 17:33:50 <ShadowJK> a thin lightweight pouch
May 28 17:34:03 <DocScrutinizer51> :nod:
May 28 17:34:54 <DocScrutinizer51> GTA02 smart battery been with valve and vessel
May 28 17:35:05 <ShadowJK> When you remove the structural bits, I'm pretty sure regular Li-Ion has greater energy density
May 28 17:35:45 <ShadowJK> You can see it with Li-Ion as you go down in size from 18650 to like 14500 size, and compare energy density vs nimh in same formfactor
May 28 17:36:41 <ShadowJK> I suspect Marketing has built up li-Po as some sort of magical thing
May 28 17:36:52 <DocScrutinizer51> yup
May 28 17:37:45 <DocScrutinizer51> anyway afaik N8x0 battery been LiPo while N900 has LiIon again
May 28 17:38:21 <DocScrutinizer51> either me or Nokia product pages might be wrong
May 28 17:38:53 <ivgalvez> Oh, I have a pile of spam to process
May 28 17:39:26 <DocScrutinizer51> the downside of popularity?
May 28 17:41:42 <DocScrutinizer51> anyway...
May 28 17:41:45 * DocScrutinizer51 waves
May 28 17:47:01 <ShadowJK> I'm pretty sure both are LiPo :P
May 28 18:00:42 <Sicelo> talking about batteries.. my bme seems to have gone mad... giving that sick sound when bq27200 says there's still 35% power left.
May 28 18:02:08 <MohammadAG> I miss that sick sound
May 28 18:02:42 <MohammadAG> ever since I installed my rewritten status battery plugin it's gone, (since I never implemented sound playback)
May 28 18:02:48 <DocScrutinizer51> Sicelo: thaqt doesn't mean a thing
May 28 18:02:52 <Sicelo> lulz
May 28 18:03:03 <DocScrutinizer51> Sicelo: bq27200 and bme just work differently
May 28 18:03:42 <DocScrutinizer51> bq27k actually integrates the mAh drained from battery, while bme alarm is absed on voltage of cell
May 28 18:03:54 <DocScrutinizer51> based*
May 28 18:04:14 <MohammadAG> one of either is BS? :P
May 28 18:04:32 <DocScrutinizer51> no, they just mean different properties of cell
May 28 18:05:24 <ShadowJK> the bme warning is more based on the point at which cell no longer could maintain sufficient voltage under some arbitrary maximum load
May 28 18:05:53 <DocScrutinizer51> while bq27 might be right there are 35% of 1300mAh left for slow drain, bme is right in voltage has dropped below a certain value for >30s or sth (threshold 3520mV or sth)
May 28 18:06:00 <ShadowJK> If you do learning cycles under heavy load (500mA or more), the bq27 capacity will probably step down a bit
May 28 18:06:19 <DocScrutinizer51> quite a bit, yeah
May 28 18:09:06 <ShadowJK> Except for my current battery
May 28 18:09:18 <Sicelo> hmm, thanks for info. i'll do a proper learning cycle on the next run.. 
May 28 18:09:37 <Raimu> MohammadAG: What is this rewritten status battery plugin of yours?
May 28 18:09:38 <ShadowJK> once it hits 3248mV, even with screen off there's just seconds before it collapses to shutdown point
May 28 18:09:53 <MohammadAG> it's in CSSU repos
May 28 18:09:57 <MohammadAG> git repos*
May 28 18:10:23 <ShadowJK> also charges about an hour faster than the old worn BL-5J
May 28 18:10:44 <Sicelo> i have never been able to go down to 3300mV with bme running.. always shuts down long before
May 28 18:11:00 <ShadowJK> yes
May 28 18:11:10 * ShadowJK doesn't use bme
May 28 18:11:48 <DocScrutinizer51> :-D
May 28 18:11:52 <Sicelo> :)
May 28 18:12:11 <DocScrutinizer51> chage21.sh FTW
May 28 18:12:21 * DocScrutinizer51 idly wonders what the 21 means
May 28 18:12:30 <DocScrutinizer51> 42 / 2 ?
May 28 18:12:34 <MohammadAG> it's like takes in movies
May 28 18:12:35 <Raimu> I was guessing script revision number. :P
May 28 18:12:46 <DocScrutinizer51> LOL
May 28 18:12:46 <MohammadAG> the number of N900s sacrificed in the process of making the script
May 28 18:12:55 <ShadowJK> second branch, second version
May 28 18:12:59 <Sicelo> you don't keep bme stopped, do you?
May 28 18:13:07 <ShadowJK> I do
May 28 18:13:21 <Sicelo> all the time?
May 28 18:13:23 <DocScrutinizer51> ShadowJK probably not started bme since 2 years
May 28 18:13:30 <DocScrutinizer51> :-P
May 28 18:13:33 <Sicelo> wow!
May 28 18:13:38 <DocScrutinizer51> yeah wow
May 28 18:13:52 <DocScrutinizer51> that's the quality of our silly little hacks
May 28 18:14:09 <ShadowJK> Actually when I migrated from old modem-dead N900 to new I had bme started for usb-ethernet
May 28 18:14:26 <DocScrutinizer51> aaah I see
May 28 18:14:58 <Raimu> BME is mainly required by some SUPER BATTERY DETECTOR apps, autoshutdown and stock Hildon battery status, right?
May 28 18:15:02 <DocScrutinizer51> I recently downloadede charge21 to IroN900 to charge from a batterypack with missing D+- short
May 28 18:15:14 <ShadowJK> (charge* does all sorta of random hacks to push usb as far into shutdown as possible)
May 28 18:15:21 <DocScrutinizer51> Raimu: yup
May 28 18:15:23 <Raimu> It also handles charging, but that's it?
May 28 18:15:27 <MohammadAG> woooo
May 28 18:16:01 <DocScrutinizer51> wooooosh
May 28 18:16:11 <ShadowJK> Running without bme would probably be bad if you're in the habbit of often letting your N900 run empty
May 28 18:16:23 <DocScrutinizer51> :nod:
May 28 18:16:38 <ShadowJK> My spare N900 runs with bme enabled, because I don't always remember to plug it in every week
May 28 18:16:51 <DocScrutinizer51> also has the unconvenient property of needing a tiny bit of care
May 28 18:17:31 <DocScrutinizer51> though it should be fine for always-on-charger devices
May 28 18:17:51 <Raimu> Is the problem with letting the battery run empty without BME in that the battery would then run out without BME kicking in with a graceful shutdown?
May 28 18:17:57 <DocScrutinizer51> I''m not all ure if ShadowJK dealt with that
May 28 18:18:18 <ShadowJK> Raimu; yeah
May 28 18:18:31 <DocScrutinizer51> (that = bq27k restarting charging on hitting that magic threshold)
May 28 18:19:09 <ShadowJK> With my old BL-5J, the restart threshold was about 2 seconds after full charge
May 28 18:19:23 <DocScrutinizer51> LOLWUT?
May 28 18:19:28 <MohammadAG> who said Harmattan was crap
May 28 18:19:34 <MohammadAG> http://i48.tinypic.com/15i2fpv.jpg
May 28 18:19:49 <MohammadAG> break aegis in one way or another, and have fun
May 28 18:19:56 <ShadowJK> this japod however, maintains voltage above 4130 or wherever the rechfge threshold is, for hours in idle
May 28 18:20:22 <DocScrutinizer51> the way it's supposed to be, yeah
May 28 18:20:31 <Estel_> ouh
May 28 18:20:39 <Estel_> Today is a "happened" day, or what?
May 28 18:20:46 <Estel_> Pali, X-Fade fixed KP after mne bugging him, afaik
May 28 18:20:53 <Estel_> of course I mean rpomotion
May 28 18:21:04 <Estel_> or any other motion ;0
May 28 18:21:39 <Estel_> now, as per SR - DocScrutinizer, you're light years away, freemangordon basically fixed calibration values for SR during last ice age
May 28 18:21:50 <Raimu> Here we go again.
May 28 18:22:03 <Estel_> it's 100% stable for up to 900 mhz, sometimes it just need boosting voltage via sysfs, but only in rare cases
May 28 18:22:09 <Estel_> some fools are using it up to 1000 mhz
May 28 18:22:21 <Pali> Estel_, kp is fixed :)
May 28 18:22:23 <Estel_> during contest "how to try egg on Yiour handheld"
May 28 18:22:28 <Estel_> Pali, i know :)
May 28 18:22:32 <Estel_> just red through backscroll
May 28 18:22:44 <Estel_> You guys are talking so much, that my family is going to kill me for reading all of it
May 28 18:22:46 <Estel_> ;0
May 28 18:22:55 <Raimu> Estel: But really, there isn't calibration at all for 1Ghz, is there.
May 28 18:23:03 <Estel_> I'm glad Council was able to help :D (adveristment, product placement)
May 28 18:23:13 <Estel_> Raimu, of course there isn';t
May 28 18:23:21 <Estel_> those fool are running 1000 mhz on values for 900 mhz
May 28 18:23:25 <DocScrutinizer51> Estel_: could you please translate to a scientific or even Electronics Engineer speaking?
May 28 18:23:32 <Estel_> just loike before, some guys were using 805 mhz with values for 600 mhz
May 28 18:23:35 <Raimu> Estel: Yeah, figured it just defaults to the last defined one.
May 28 18:23:47 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, unfortunately, no, ask freemangordon, he implemented it
May 28 18:24:33 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, basically problem was, that it was calibrated only for some certain speed, i.e. 600 mhz, so for 250 it was too high (watse of energy) and for >805 mhz too low, usually
May 28 18:24:39 <Estel_> = instability oir instant reboot
May 28 18:24:51 <Estel_> Now, it's properly calibrated for every step of frequency, and it's giving REAL benefits in bnattery
May 28 18:24:53 <Estel_> life
May 28 18:25:12 <Estel_> most people consider it at 1/3, if You filter out placebo ones that talk about twice. well, it depend son usage patterns
May 28 18:25:23 <Estel_> for technical details, GTF... erm, I mean go to ask Freemangordon
May 28 18:26:03 <Estel_> Pali, I also can't belive it worked so fast :D
May 28 18:26:11 <Estel_> You see, new council rox ;P (joking)
May 28 18:26:31 <Estel_> (or not ;) )
May 28 18:26:35 <Pali> it was really so fast :D it tooks one year :D
May 28 18:26:56 <Pali> freemangordon, see: http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/include/linux/i2c/twl4030-madc.h
May 28 18:26:57 <Pali> #define TWL4030_MADC_BTEMP              TWL4030_MADC_ADCIN1
May 28 18:27:28 <MohammadAG> ~ $ rm /usr/lib/meegotouch/applicationextensions/libstatusindicatormenu-brightn
May 28 18:27:29 <MohammadAG> ess.so
May 28 18:27:29 <MohammadAG> rm: can't remove '/usr/lib/meegotouch/applicationextensions/libstatusindicatormenu-brightness.so': Permission denied
May 28 18:27:29 <MohammadAG> ~ $ ls -l /usr/lib/meegotouch/applicationextensions/libstatusindicatormenu-brig
May 28 18:27:29 <MohammadAG> htness.so
May 28 18:27:30 <MohammadAG> -rwxr-xr-x    1 user     users       478798 May 28 21:12 /usr/lib/meegotouch/applicationextensions/libstatusindicatormenu-brightness.so
May 28 18:27:32 <MohammadAG> I don't get it
May 28 18:28:35 <DocScrutinizer51> Estel_: honestly there's no way community can "properly calibrate" VCore
May 28 18:28:59 <Estel_> AIUI SR uses some pre-defined values
May 28 18:29:08 <DocScrutinizer51> as a basic immutable fact CPU needs MORE voltage for higher speed. not less
May 28 18:29:08 <Estel_> of something ;P I said that, better ask freemangordon
May 28 18:29:23 <Estel_> not related, I think we're not udnerstanding each other due to my non-tech-engineer work
May 28 18:29:29 <Estel_> s/work/language/
May 28 18:29:30 <infobot> Estel_ meant: not related, I think we're not udnerstanding each other due to my non-tech-engineer language
May 28 18:29:52 <Estel_> most important think for me is that it works, and works well for ages :P
May 28 18:30:00 <Estel_> for more tech savyy discussion, ask freemangordon
May 28 18:30:44 <DocScrutinizer51> ok, I hope you're publishing your advertising joy always with that disclaimer
May 28 18:32:30 <MrPingu> Estel_ you are not the only one who thinks it works well ^^
May 28 18:33:09 <Pali> freemangordon, run nokia application on n900: sudo bsi-read it show BSI and battery level. BSI is TWL4030_MADC_ADCIN4 and battery level is TWL4030_MADC_VBAT
May 28 18:33:14 <Pali> #define TWL4030_MADC_VBAT               TWL4030_MADC_ADCIN12
May 28 18:33:31 <DocScrutinizer51> as any other approach was more the notorious chinese way: just cut out components until device fails. If it fails remember last component cut out as mandatory, and redo. If you don't find any more single component to cut out without instant fail, you got optimal design -> go mass production
May 28 18:34:35 <freemangordon> pali, thanks a lot, now, please put that somewhere (or mail it to me), please, so I can use it as a reference when I am back to libbmeipc
May 28 18:34:42 <Pali> freemangordon, also see my source code of getbootstate and bsi-read on https://code.launchpad.net/~pali/+junk/maemo_getbootstate
May 28 18:34:46 <DocScrutinizer51> Pali: ADCIN12 ???
May 28 18:34:53 <Pali> ok
May 28 18:34:58 <Pali> DocScrutinizer51, yes
May 28 18:35:03 <DocScrutinizer51> dang
May 28 18:35:07 <Pali> I disassebled that code
May 28 18:35:19 <freemangordon> TBH I think someone should gather all that info somewhere
May 28 18:35:35 <freemangordon> Pali, BSI?
May 28 18:35:46 <Pali> DocScrutinizer51, see source code http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~pali/+junk/maemo_getbootstate/view/head:/bsi-read.c
May 28 18:35:55 <slonopotamus> what a good evening for some debian-related ranting...
May 28 18:35:57 <DocScrutinizer51> Pali: you're sure that's not just another register57 as we've seen in bme for bq27200?
May 28 18:35:59 <Pali> BSI = battery size indicator
May 28 18:36:04 <freemangordon> ok
May 28 18:36:20 <DocScrutinizer51> OOOH VBAT
May 28 18:36:26 <Pali> DocScrutinizer51, no idea, but it outputs data
May 28 18:36:26 <freemangordon> Pali, but, but, is that capacity?
May 28 18:36:55 <DocScrutinizer51> yeah ADCIN12 might be one of the 'internal' ADC channels directly connected to VBAT
May 28 18:37:07 <Pali> is should be design capacity in some form (no idea how to convert it to mAh)
May 28 18:37:28 <DocScrutinizer51> AAAH [20:26:58] <Pali> #define TWL4030_MADC_BTEMP              TWL4030_MADC_ADCIN1
May 28 18:37:31 <freemangordon> anyway, don't have time right now, have a nice evening gentlemen, I am afk
May 28 18:37:32 <DocScrutinizer51> that's more like it
May 28 18:37:44 <Estel_> see ya freemangordon
May 28 18:38:13 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, I jsut got d'ced and c'ed again, so i missed aprt of discussion but...
May 28 18:38:13 <Estel_> Frankly, if You
May 28 18:38:19 <Pali> DocScrutinizer51 for converting raw battery level use this: ((-2145384445)*level*6000) >> 32 + level*6000 - ((level*6000) >> 31)
May 28 18:38:32 <Estel_> 're using kp46, it's no surprise to me, that You think KP is not compatible
May 28 18:38:33 <Pali> this is from disassembled arm nokia binary
May 28 18:38:35 <DocScrutinizer51> that's voltage then?
May 28 18:38:56 <Estel_> basically, you're missing all work by Pali and freemangordon, and You're using plain titan's version
May 28 18:39:06 <Pali> maybe, non raw value is about 3618
May 28 18:40:15 <Pali> and if I'm good in calculus "((-2145384445)*level*6000) >> 32 + level*6000 - ((level*6000) >> 31)" could be equal to "level * 3003 / 512"
May 28 18:40:28 <Pali> correct me if not :D
May 28 18:40:38 <Estel_> You do what You want, but I storngly encourage to use kp in it's all kp50 greatness ;)
May 28 18:40:40 <DocScrutinizer51> Estel_: I don't need to use *any* version of KP to listen to reports from users, to read patches, to see rationales given
May 28 18:40:56 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, you're trying to tell me that You read all patches?
May 28 18:41:17 <Estel_> you had no idea about any work re SR, so I storngly doubt that
May 28 18:41:17 <DocScrutinizer51> for sure more tha you do
May 28 18:41:22 <Estel_> s/storngly/strongly/
May 28 18:41:22 <infobot> Estel_ meant: you had no idea about any work re SR, so I strongly doubt that
May 28 18:41:22 <Pali> DocScrutinizer51, can you run sudo bsi-read on your n900 and write your values?
May 28 18:41:32 <Estel_> for sure, but it's argument at persona ;)
May 28 18:41:33 <DocScrutinizer51> sure
May 28 18:41:35 <Estel_> aka sophism
May 28 18:41:45 <Pali> /sbin/bsi-read
May 28 18:42:24 <Estel_> It's quite funny that you're criticizing so many parts of it without even trying it Yourself. it seems, that doing so, you miss bigger picture. After all, you *don't* real all patches, re Sr discussion.
May 28 18:42:31 <DocScrutinizer> t900:/usr/local/sbin# bsi-read
May 28 18:42:32 <DocScrutinizer> raw BSI ADC reading: 468
May 28 18:42:34 <DocScrutinizer> BSI: 1010
May 28 18:42:35 <Estel_> anyway, i'm not going to go through it again :D
May 28 18:42:35 <DocScrutinizer> raw battery level: 688
May 28 18:42:37 <DocScrutinizer> battery level: 4035
May 28 18:42:39 <DocScrutinizer> t900:/usr/local/sbin#
May 28 18:43:40 <Pali> so "battery level" is battery voltage?
May 28 18:43:53 <DocScrutinizer51> Estel_: my approach id quite different from the generally used "WFM \o/"
May 28 18:44:08 <Estel_> WFM = ?
May 28 18:44:11 <DocScrutinizer51> 4035 are mV VBAT
May 28 18:44:22 <DocScrutinizer51> ~wfm
May 28 18:44:22 <infobot> i guess wfm is (Wired For Management Baseline) This is an Intel hardware specification that is designed to allow for compliance with easier management of desktop PCs in a networked environment. The specification calls for computers to be compatible with a pre-boot protocol that can be used to update the system or perform other management options. Also, the computer must be compatible with network/desktop management applications..  Works For Me
May 28 18:44:38 <DocScrutinizer51> ~wtf wfm
May 28 18:44:39 <infobot> WFM: works for me 
May 28 18:45:20 <slonopotamus> ~wtf wtf (yeah, a bit recursive)
May 28 18:45:21 <infobot> usage: wtf <foo>.
May 28 18:45:23 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, of course, but in current situation You're neither che4cking if it WFM, or all patches. so you're making general statements, basing them on either outdated concern 9re kp46 You're using) or other changes out of context.
May 28 18:45:48 <Estel_> but it's your personal choice, of course
May 28 18:45:55 <Estel_> personally, i don't have any problem with it ;)
May 28 18:46:08 <DocScrutinizer51> I'm not surprised though, as most people deduce from their own situation to that of others all the time
May 28 18:46:18 <Estel_> just need to remember, that when You make general statements like "I said that kernel-power is not compatible", you mean kp46, in fact.
May 28 18:47:02 <Estel_> lokk@ result of powertop thing, from the very beginning You assumed it's KP fault, while, after investigation, it turned out to be quite otherwise
May 28 18:47:17 <Estel_> although, I feel we're heading into another ideological discussion, which is not what I feel fancy, so i'll end it here.
May 28 18:47:19 <DocScrutinizer51> Estel_: you're again starting to assume and declare a fact your very personal assumptions about what and how *I* do
May 28 18:47:24 <DocScrutinizer51> I don't like that
May 28 18:47:51 <Pali> DocScrutinizer51, and what exactly is BSI value (ADCIN4)?
May 28 18:48:05 <DocScrutinizer51> Battery Size Indicator
May 28 18:48:06 <Estel_> I'm more a practical guy, so I rather thing about effects, not "mean/not mean" ;) still, i think your battery discussion is more interesting
May 28 18:48:10 <DocScrutinizer51> 3rd pin of battery
May 28 18:48:47 <DocScrutinizer51> Pali: ^^^
May 28 18:49:25 <DocScrutinizer51> obviously my bsi-read thinks the battery has a resistor there that means "battery 1100mAh"
May 28 18:49:53 <DocScrutinizer51> err 1010
May 28 18:50:17 <Pali> ok
May 28 18:51:01 <DocScrutinizer51> the fun part in all this is: in former times batteries had a NTC there, and mugen still have
May 28 18:51:10 <Sicelo> where's this bsi-read .. where can i get it?
May 28 18:51:34 <DocScrutinizer51> means your bsi-read's notion about battery size will change with battery temperature
May 28 18:53:14 <Pali> Sicelo /sbin/bsi-read
May 28 18:53:20 <Pali> it is part of Maemo5 core system
May 28 18:53:35 <Pali> closed source nokia binary
May 28 18:53:48 <Pali> my open source code is here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~pali/+junk/maemo_getbootstate/view/head:/bsi-read.c
May 28 18:54:08 <DocScrutinizer51> Sicelo: if you're using 'root' rather than 'sudo gainroot', then you don't even have to search
May 28 18:54:09 <Sicelo> nice :)
May 28 18:54:27 <MrPingu> Pali, need that dumpatag programm need to be compiled?
May 28 18:54:43 <Pali> MrPingu, yes
May 28 18:55:00 <MrPingu> Then you will have to wait some days, sorry
May 28 18:56:06 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, and abot your hardware expertise - what do You think about concept of using LiIon inside N900's?
May 28 18:56:24 <Estel_> I mean differences in voltage. It's small, no problem with it, I suppose?
May 28 18:56:25 <DocScrutinizer51> eh?
May 28 18:56:31 <Estel_> any practical effects on device's operations?
May 28 18:56:50 <DocScrutinizer51> what else than LiIon would you want to use?
May 28 18:56:57 <Estel_> I'm building 2x 18650's for aN900 battery
May 28 18:56:58 <vi__> Estel_: LiION IS in n900...
May 28 18:57:01 <Estel_> LiIon vs LiPo
May 28 18:57:10 <DocScrutinizer51> meh, no difference
May 28 18:57:12 <Estel_> little lower amx voltage
May 28 18:57:17 <Estel_> and little lover down limit
May 28 18:57:37 <Estel_> thats what I though, but I wondered if BMe should be confused by always less max vopltage than expected?
May 28 18:57:47 <DocScrutinizer51> nope
May 28 18:57:48 <Estel_> just wnated to ensure it ;)
May 28 18:58:10 <DocScrutinizer51> I still think BL-5J *is* LiIon
May 28 18:58:40 <DocScrutinizer51> anyway chargers make no difference between the both
May 28 18:59:32 <DocScrutinizer51> Estel_: I honestly hope you connect those 2 pcs 16450 in *parallel*, not in series ;-P
May 28 18:59:59 <DocScrutinizer51> and I hope you are probing for their respective voltages to be identical before doing so
May 28 19:00:31 <Estel_> of course :p
May 28 19:00:40 <Estel_> using same age batteries form same serries
May 28 19:00:42 <DocScrutinizer51> the bq27k will freak out, but so what
May 28 19:00:52 <Estel_> anyway, good joke about parallel and series :p
May 28 19:01:05 <DocScrutinizer51> don't ask ;-D
May 28 19:01:06 <Estel_> won't freak, i'll calibrate it to properly detect those 6000 mAh capacity
May 28 19:01:12 <slonopotamus> DocScrutinizer51: you're killing all fun
May 28 19:01:27 <vi__> bl-5j IS LiIon.
May 28 19:01:36 <DocScrutinizer51> Estel_: I dunno if it even can go that far
May 28 19:01:42 <DocScrutinizer51> (4Ah)
May 28 19:01:45 <DocScrutinizer51> err 6
May 28 19:02:09 <DocScrutinizer51> for sure it will need several learning cyclres for that
May 28 19:02:49 <Estel_> many learning cycles :P
May 28 19:03:04 <Estel_> vi_, bl-5j is LiPo
May 28 19:03:17 <DocScrutinizer51> as adjustment of the capacity as learnt is limited to +-1//8
May 28 19:03:31 <DocScrutinizer51> Estel_: says who?
May 28 19:04:44 <DocScrutinizer51> I seem to recall N900 product webpage mentioned LiIon battery, while N800 page said LiPo
May 28 19:05:47 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, all characteristics semm LiPo'ish
May 28 19:06:01 <Estel_> not to mean what is written on it ;p
May 28 19:06:09 <DocScrutinizer51> errr,  which ones?
May 28 19:06:36 <Estel_> 3.7 average voltage. AFAIk, LiIons have 3.6
May 28 19:06:42 <DocScrutinizer51> nope
May 28 19:06:52 <Estel_> so, were it LiFe's?
May 28 19:07:11 <DocScrutinizer51> depends on cell chemistry, but that's not related to LiPo vs LiIon
May 28 19:07:21 <Estel_> udnerstood
May 28 19:07:25 <Estel_> understood*
May 28 19:07:28 <Estel_> well, even better, then
May 28 19:07:56 <Estel_> 6000 mah capacity is going to be overkill. Caliubrating bq2 for it too :p
May 28 19:08:28 <GeneralAntilles> You know, I haven't gotten any threats of violence over the internet in a while.
May 28 19:08:39 <Raimu> Life getting boring?
May 28 19:09:37 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, a little.
May 28 19:09:51 <GeneralAntilles> There were some good ones back in the day
May 28 19:09:55 <GeneralAntilles> I should've archived them.
May 28 19:10:54 <DocScrutinizer51> whatever, BL-5J writing says "LiIon", while on BP-4L they say "rechargeable Li-Polymer"
May 28 19:11:05 <GeneralAntilles> There was one guy on the forums who accused Texrat and me of being willing to go fight in Afghanistan for Nokia.
May 28 19:11:10 <Sicelo> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32206 .. looks like vi__ and DocScrutinizer51 are right
May 28 19:13:05 <Raimu> GeneralAntilles: That... that makes no sense.
May 28 19:13:16 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, I also thought so at the time.
May 28 19:13:19 <GeneralAntilles> It was a long rant, too.
May 28 19:14:20 <Sicelo> also, http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/power/batteries/nokia-battery-bl-5j 
May 28 19:17:32 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, vi_ Sicelo, lol, i always though we're using LiPo's. You busted a myth! :P
May 28 19:17:55 <Sicelo> FUD, lol. j/k
May 28 19:18:09 <Estel_> GeneralAntilles, now we're waiting until someone promises on mailing list, that he is going to fight in Afghanistan for nokia if we give him N950 ;)
May 28 19:18:23 <GeneralAntilles> Already got one, thanks! :P
May 28 19:26:29 <MrPingu>  At first I thought LiPo meant lithium-polonomium (was two years ago) :P
May 28 19:27:15 <MrPingu> Nuclear powered batteries ftw :)
May 28 19:31:01 <jaska> Li6D
May 28 19:31:54 <DocScrutinizer51> I booted the spare N810 which I just picked the BP-4L from, found it saying "battery almost empty" and decided to recharge. 3rd reboot now, out of nothing
May 28 19:32:02 <DocScrutinizer51> in <30min
May 28 19:32:46 <DocScrutinizer51> there's definitely sth fishy with bme on diablo, with aged batteries
May 28 19:33:24 <DocScrutinizer51> FSCK! another reboot
May 28 19:34:43 <DocScrutinizer51> reboot
May 28 19:35:01 <Raimu> :/
May 28 19:35:02 <DocScrutinizer51> feels like a slow bootloop :-/
May 28 19:38:21 * DocScrutinizer51 suspects friggin RSS-reader that was terribly busy to scroll thru 2 years of dunnowhat, plus WLAN WPA
May 28 19:38:29 <DocScrutinizer51> disabled both
May 28 19:38:30 <Raimu> Ahaha.
May 28 19:38:34 <Raimu> That would make sense.
May 28 19:45:26 <DocScrutinizer51> well, no reboot since... 10min \o/
May 28 19:46:18 <DocScrutinizer51> I'd think diablo missed a few RT-linux extensions
May 28 19:47:34 <DocScrutinizer51> and since N810 charger circuitry been a really nasty exclusively sw-controlled abomination, that's no surprise it reboots when sth is a bit busy during device charging
May 28 19:48:17 <DocScrutinizer51> plus I suspect wlan since long to be nasty
May 28 19:50:05 <vi__> brb, going to watch iron sky.
May 28 19:58:17 <befr0d> iron man
May 28 20:19:53 <juozapas> hi
May 28 20:20:33 <juozapas> how to get or convert columbus (gps navigation toolkit) to gpx format ?
May 28 20:32:28 <agitata> ciao
May 28 20:32:55 <agitata> darksin
May 28 20:33:32 <MrPingu> Pali, posted atags info on TMO ;)
May 28 20:34:12 <Pali> thanks!
May 28 20:35:27 <Sicelo> you're missing HW Revision MrPingu ;)
May 28 20:36:05 <MrPingu> Should I edit, or can you remember from here? It's 2101 ;)
May 28 20:37:00 <MrPingu> No, I know why I haven't included them, they are at the end of dumpatag log ;)
May 28 20:37:16 <MrPingu> Under hw-build
May 28 20:38:41 <Sicelo> ah, indeed ;)
May 28 20:39:05 <Sicelo> i had already edited mine (qhubekela)
May 28 20:39:29 <MrPingu> I edited mine too now, just in case
May 28 20:47:54 <merlin1991> ok added mine now :)
May 28 20:51:03 <Raimu> Wow, a solution to our n900 low memory problems! http://downloadmoreram.co.uk/
May 28 20:51:43 <Raimu> It uses even the same engine, dubbed "Placebo", as many of n900's native tweaking apps!
May 28 20:54:05 <MrPingu> sure! Speedpatch FINAL :D
May 28 20:55:07 <Raimu> (Honestly though, some of those messages you get from clicking that big friendly button are hilarious.)
May 28 21:15:53 <Estel_> teotwaki, forget to comment
May 28 21:17:08 <Estel_> I don't agree that priozes for apst contributions are bad idea.
May 28 21:17:20 <Estel_> as Jaffa stated, msot people that received devices for "promises" delivered nothing...
May 28 21:17:31 <Estel_> and, btw, we have 3 programs - 75 devices total - for "future" promises
May 28 21:17:35 <Estel_> like qt5 and Nokia store
May 28 21:17:40 <Estel_> Coding competition is little better here
May 28 21:17:57 <Estel_> Communtiy Awards, are, for the first time, prizes for people that - as clearly stated - contributed and continuosly contribute
May 28 21:18:07 <Estel_> So Your comments about giving device to lzuk were totally out of line
May 28 21:18:20 <Estel_> BTw, why no one read annoucement/requiments?;)
May 28 21:18:53 <Estel_> 2nd line "for past months/years contributed - and continue to contribute"
May 28 21:19:18 <GeneralAntilles> Estel_, not the first time.
May 28 21:19:21 <Estel_> BTw, I'm not surprised, that so many morons want to "try their luck" submitting without contributing anything - well, after all, it doesn't cost anything
May 28 21:19:37 <Estel_> GeneralAntilles, oh, sorry, it seems that I miss some info? there was something like that already?
May 28 21:19:38 <GeneralAntilles> Estel_, the internet tablet era devices and discount codes were mostly based on past contribution.
May 28 21:19:48 <Estel_> thank You for info, I wasn't aware of that
May 28 21:20:01 * GeneralAntilles has been around a while.
May 28 21:20:04 <GeneralAntilles> Growing moldy with age.
May 28 21:20:22 <Estel_> :) I wont cheat that I was here during ITT era
May 28 21:21:38 <Raimu> GeneralAntill, recall if the winners reciprocated?
May 28 21:21:41 <Estel_> anyway, as per teotwaki complains about idea, I think it's good have something like that.
May 28 21:21:51 <Estel_> After all, people thatd eserve it *will* get device,s and others not...
May 28 21:22:10 <Estel_> ...so, if there is going to be another thing like that in future, it will probably bring less moronic submissions
May 28 21:22:38 <Estel_> BTW, Qgil kinda "promiseD" that it's last batch of N950, that hes aware of ;)
May 28 21:28:15 <MrPingu> Don't say that , I don't wanna hear that :P
May 28 21:30:17 <chem|st> o/
May 28 21:31:03 <MrPingu_> doh, that was my lovely router again
May 28 21:35:02 <MrPingu_> To get back on what I wanted to say: You will always keep people submitting themselves so don't count on it, it will be less of these mails. If they wrote a mail today and don't receive they will try again next time
May 28 21:35:55 <Estel_> http://talk.maemo.org/member.php?u=59020
May 28 21:35:59 <Estel_> what the heck is that guys profile?
May 28 21:36:05 <Estel_> 3x N950 silver? 0_o
May 28 21:36:18 <Estel_> actually, 4x
May 28 21:36:50 <Estel_> WTf is that supposed to mean? He think that N950 was available for normal sale and he want to pretend that he bought it 4 times?
May 28 21:38:35 <MrPingu_> give me one :O
May 28 21:40:44 <MrPingu_> Lucky guy, probably but if I had more than 2 something would be eating on me. Probably
May 28 21:41:09 <Estel_> 0_o KAthy smith also applied?
May 28 21:41:29 <Estel_> wlel, generally, she did many good things, but I haven't seen her, erm, since i've joined
May 28 21:41:58 <Estel_> either we're just missing each other and it's "bad luck" or she's totally inactive for at least year
May 28 21:42:02 <MrPingu_> Heck, I don't even know who it was/is
May 28 21:42:21 <MrPingu_> TMO name? 
May 28 21:42:29 <Estel_> councilor for September 2010 - March 2011 cadence
May 28 21:42:35 <Estel_> redvkathy ;P
May 28 21:42:37 <Estel_> tmo name
May 28 21:43:00 <Estel_> I remember stumbling upon her work her eor ther,e but everything was things from past
May 28 21:43:05 <Estel_> some would say ancient
May 28 21:43:19 <MrPingu_> Hmm no wonder, I got my N900 from feb 2011
May 28 21:43:25 <Estel_> but maybe I'm, just not informed well, will check
May 28 21:43:35 <Estel_> Eh, it's always kinda dillema about such people
May 28 21:43:42 <Estel_> they've contributed great things in the past, and that is fine...
May 28 21:43:53 <Estel_> but, requiments state clearly that it's about continous contributions
May 28 21:44:11 <Estel_> i.e. Pali, he is here for ages, despite fact that most know him from kernel-power
May 28 21:44:20 <Estel_> and the latter is jsut because he still conmtribute very much :)
May 28 21:44:49 <MrPingu_> You have to be  strict ;)
May 28 21:45:33 <Estel_> yep.
May 28 21:45:38 <MrPingu_> I try to contribute the best I can. Only my knowledge is about linux/maemo is about the size of a peanut
May 28 21:45:51 <Estel_> Well, after all, we cna send a post cards with "Thank You" to every contributor from ancient times ;)
May 28 21:46:05 <Estel_> BTW, have you submitted?
May 28 21:46:11 <MrPingu_> Not yet
May 28 21:46:19 <MrPingu_> I am planning to do so
May 28 21:46:21 * Estel_ is in process of processing submissions via merit content
May 28 21:46:25 <Estel_> I see
May 28 21:46:34 <Estel_> smart one, don't want to drow in sea of submissions from, first few days?:P
May 28 21:46:54 <GeneralAntilles> Raimu, well, many of them are names you'd recognize from today.
May 28 21:46:55 <GeneralAntilles> So, yes.
May 28 21:47:08 <MrPingu_> Actually I wait till my exams are over :P
May 28 21:47:31 <Estel_> BTW about Katy - TMo last activity:
May 28 21:47:31 <Estel_> Last Activity: 10-02-2011 02:10 PM
May 28 21:47:37 <Estel_> of course contributions isn't all about TMO
May 28 21:47:51 <MrPingu_> but it's a part of it, IMO
May 28 21:48:48 <MrPingu_> I mean most of people use TMO only as their source
May 28 21:49:15 <MrPingu_> =normal users
May 28 21:49:28 <Estel_> of course it's a part of it, although I wouldn't have problems with allocating device to someone who is not ever registered on TMO, if she/he would be very active and contributing via irc or mailing list
May 28 21:49:48 <MrPingu_> Sure
May 28 21:50:07 <Estel_> well, it's all about continous contributions - Kathy would be, for example, perfect candidate for receiving device, except for fact tyhat she haven't been senn for more than a year ;)
May 28 21:51:34 <GeneralAntilles> Well, she's on Twitter.
May 28 21:53:26 <anidel_> she's been as you know quite active. Well you can decide to give her one if any are left..putting her low on the list
May 28 21:54:14 <GeneralAntilles> I think participation is likely to go back up significantly if she gets a device.
May 28 21:54:21 <Estel_> it all depend son competition, i'm jsut thinking loudly
May 28 21:54:30 <Estel_> don;t get to sued to what I'm saying, though ;0
May 28 21:54:52 <anidel_> :)
May 28 21:56:01 <Estel_> hopefuly, it's not on me alone to decide...
May 28 21:56:08 <anidel_> I myself haven't been active for example on TMO, still working on my project, so not sure how you'd count my participation, but i specifically asked to be put low on the list.
May 28 21:56:16 <Estel_> And council represent quite diverse group of users, so, considering everyone will do own research...
May 28 21:56:18 <Estel_> We should be ok
May 28 21:56:29 <anidel_> yup that's cool
May 28 21:57:27 <anidel_> you could put her low on the list of those who do not have a device and if one's available give it to her..as GA said that'll likely bring her back into activity on TMO as a greeter/helper
May 28 21:57:40 <Estel_> anidel_, btw, Your nick on TMO is?
May 28 21:57:48 <anidel_> anidel :)
May 28 21:58:11 <Estel_> ah, i see, you're not on wim,ki list yet.
May 28 21:58:15 <anidel_> I'm on the list already, so my submission's been accepted I think
May 28 21:58:24 <anidel_> I think I am...
May 28 21:59:08 <anidel_> I do...just checked
May 28 21:59:09 <Estel_> yep You're
May 28 22:00:17 <Estel_> BTW, out of those last topic, what is Your project about?>
May 28 22:00:26 <Estel_> it's fremantle related one, or something for Mer or Harmattan?
May 28 22:00:42 <Estel_> BTw, merlin1991, I've totally forget it, I got N90 for you :D
May 28 22:00:44 <anidel_> last version's for Fremantle (Xournal)
May 28 22:01:00 <GeneralAntilles> Also: Hi, anidel_. :) How's Canada treating you?
May 28 22:01:00 <anidel_> it was one of the Fremantle Stars (that got me a N900 pre-production a month before release )
May 28 22:01:16 <anidel_> GeneralAntilles, it isn't anymore :) left it a year ago back to London now
May 28 22:01:44 <anidel_> Estel_, and I'm (as said) slowly re-writing it for Harmattan
May 28 22:01:49 <GeneralAntilles> Haha
May 28 22:01:53 <GeneralAntilles> I certainly can keep up.
May 28 22:02:21 * GeneralAntilles can vouch for anidel_.
May 28 22:02:23 <anidel_> ehehe indeed :)
May 28 22:02:27 <anidel_> thanks :p
May 28 22:04:27 <anidel_> btw sorry to appear only now though...as much as timing's suspicious ( :) ) I'm not back here for the award .
May 28 22:05:03 <MrPingu_> Nice timing ^^
May 28 22:05:41 <anidel_> exactly
May 28 22:08:30 <MrPingu_> Guys, I wish you a very good night. I'm goin to search for my bed, can't be tired: still have 2 exams left
May 28 22:13:34 <Estel_> see ya MrPingu_
May 28 22:13:42 <Estel_> anidel_, of youre you're not for award :)
May 28 22:13:57 <Estel_> it's always nice to see someone returning
May 28 22:14:12 <Estel_> or "returning" i.e. waking up from inactivity - afdter all, real life demans our time much
May 28 22:15:23 <anidel_> I have never been active on IRC , too much a real time medium for me to follow...but I'd like to gather some feedback on Xournal for the N9...so will come back with some questions when there'll be more people as well
May 28 22:16:09 <Estel_> Harmattan got it own channel, generally
May 28 22:16:38 <anidel_> yup ... but my IRC was setup for #maemo already :D
May 28 22:16:50 <Estel_> BTw, why not for Mer?
May 28 22:17:02 <Estel_> it seems like future os for N9/N950, which can;'t be said about Harmattan
May 28 22:17:15 <Estel_> or at leats multiplatform? We're going to have common COBS soon
May 28 22:17:25 <anidel_> that's also in the plan...I still have to get the C++ version and adapt it for Qt 
May 28 22:18:06 <anidel_> the N950 has Nemo on it for that reason as well...the N9 would be Harmattan...
May 28 22:18:31 <Estel_> I see.
May 28 22:21:15 <Estel_> You know what? i'm probably going to buy N8** for collectionerish reasons (and maybe developing sometihng for legacy devices too)
May 28 22:21:28 <Sc0rpius> well I didn't like Nemo.
May 28 22:21:34 <Estel_> why?
May 28 22:21:40 <merlin1991> h-d is missing :D
May 28 22:21:44 <anidel_> I have them as well...miss a N800 though :(
May 28 22:21:45 <Sc0rpius> maybe it has potential but it's extremely buggy right now, and it doesn't seem it'll ever fit on a N900
May 28 22:21:52 <merlin1991> the whole interface is essentially dumbed down :/
May 28 22:21:57 <Sc0rpius> for example the browser is extremely tiny and since you don't have multitouch, you can't zoom
May 28 22:21:59 <merlin1991> cordia could be great though
May 28 22:22:01 <vi__> bl-5j IS LiIon.I thought they were community awards?
May 28 22:22:07 <vi__> oops
May 28 22:22:12 <vi__> I thought they were community awards?
May 28 22:22:15 <Estel_> yes, it is ion;P
May 28 22:22:35 <Estel_> N800?:P
May 28 22:22:43 <vi__> Not bribes to win back people who left the community?
May 28 22:23:11 <Estel_> we cna give them nokia 770
May 28 22:23:17 <Estel_> or 3310
May 28 22:23:26 <vi__> For the likes of that guy who keeps porting obscure 7drl rogue likes.
May 28 22:23:45 <Estel_> hey, this guy is actually porting many other useful things too
May 28 22:23:48 <vi__> The people who just didnt quit
May 28 22:23:49 <Estel_> if we're talking about same person
May 28 22:23:50 <Sc0rpius> so Estel you won the council?
May 28 22:24:07 <vi__> in the face of all the abandonment and
May 28 22:24:14 <Estel_> Sc0rpius, I was elected as councilor, yep :) Thanks.
May 28 22:24:17 <vi__> disapponiment.
May 28 22:24:17 <Sc0rpius> nice 
May 28 22:24:43 <Estel_> alongside 4 other people
May 28 22:25:00 <Estel_> what was most feature-complete from N8* line of devices?
May 28 22:25:08 <Estel_> are they all runing same OS with CSSU'ish variants?
May 28 22:25:18 <Estel_> N8**, actually
May 28 22:25:20 <Estel_> N810?
May 28 22:25:36 <Estel_> BTW, wimax edition wasn't ever released, yep?
May 28 22:26:15 <vi__> If someone has not been active in >1 year then fuck em.
May 28 22:26:54 <vi__> Estel_: wimax version was released
May 28 22:26:59 <Estel_> no worries vi_  :) rest assure,d that no one who doesn't deserve device will get it
May 28 22:27:02 <Estel_> huh?
May 28 22:27:03 <vi__> just nothing else ever ran wimax!
May 28 22:31:54 <Estel_> hey, wimax coverage is quite ok in p[oland :p
May 28 22:32:10 <vi__> well, 4g is rolled out in poland for reals
May 28 22:32:13 <teotwaki_> p[o]land?
May 28 22:32:15 <teotwaki_> pland?
May 28 22:32:25 <vi__> in UK you are lucky to get 2.5G in some places
May 28 22:32:48 <teotwaki_> bleh, I'm lucky to get 2G in my office
May 28 22:32:49 <vi__> At least in sczeczin it was.
May 28 22:33:20 <vi__> teotwaki, wit a name like yours I would have thought you would be rigging up a VHF?
May 28 22:33:52 <teotwaki_> Nha, I grew out of VHF around age 12 :)
May 28 22:39:52 <Estel_> N810 wimax was LTE standard, or those south-korean one?
May 28 23:15:17 <ShadowJK> Estel_; you can treat LiPo and LiIon the same
May 28 23:15:48 <Estel_> ShadowJK, that was my practice, but though that better safe than sorry,m and i'll ask about Maemo's charging chip (if it's not pesky about provided things)
May 28 23:16:24 <Estel_> generally, in every application I've been rolling LiIons/LiPo's/LiFe's without any problems, due to almsot identical voltage characteristics
May 28 23:16:36 <Estel_> and same base way of working
May 28 23:17:04 <Estel_> honestly, I can't wait to check uptime of my N900 with 6000 mAh from 2 3000 mah Phillips cells ;)
May 28 23:17:24 <Estel_> would be quite fun for wardriving, too.
May 28 23:22:44 <Estel_> LOL @ price
May 28 23:22:46 <Estel_> http://www.ebay.pl/itm/Brand-NEW-Nokia-770-internet-tablet-Wi-Fi-Bluetooth-4-1-Black-Non-refurbished-/150814333691?pt=US_Tablets&hash=item231d3c1afb
May 28 23:23:32 <Estel_> well, i'm willing to pay 30 dollars with shipping for N800/N810, just to make my projects compatible with older Maemo's...
May 28 23:23:44 <cehteh> Estel_: btw .. take a look at /proc/vmstat .. there are counters for swapout, thats more general for accounting swaps as it will work for swapfiles too
May 28 23:23:46 <Estel_> so, I really LOL'ed, while reading that
May 28 23:23:57 <Estel_> cehteh, thanks, will check it
May 28 23:25:26 <cehteh>  awk '/pswpout/{print $2}' /proc/vmstat 
May 28 23:28:38 <ShadowJK> LiFe can't be treated the same
May 28 23:28:52 <Estel_> ShadowJK, could elaborate more?
May 28 23:29:41 <Estel_> cehteh, it shows 5481 in my case
May 28 23:29:44 <ShadowJK> The charge voltage is much lower for LiFePo4
May 28 23:29:53 <cehteh> Estel_: thats in pages (4k)
May 28 23:30:03 * Estel_ nods
May 28 23:30:09 <Estel_> wa sin process of calculating :p
May 28 23:30:24 <ShadowJK> iirc 3.6 for LiFe vs 4.2 for Lithium Cobalt (the "regular" Li-Ion)
May 28 23:30:52 <ShadowJK> Also you can have LiFePo4 both as regular and as LiFePo4 polymer :)
May 28 23:31:29 <cehteh> note that this counters dont reset .. but you can use awk for calculations as it can calculate with petty huge numbers 
May 28 23:31:55 * cehteh wonders if this all can be done in less than 10 loc :)
May 28 23:32:43 <Estel_> ShadowJK, isn't LiFe 3.6 average vs LiIon 3.7 average?
May 28 23:32:49 <Estel_> instead of max?
May 28 23:34:25 <Estel_> nah, it's 3.3 average
May 28 23:34:30 <Estel_> 3.3V I mean
May 28 23:34:50 <Estel_> but LiFePo4F is 3.6 average...
May 28 23:34:57 <Estel_> which, probably, could be trasted the same way
May 28 23:46:51 <Estel_> dafuq?: http://www.ebay.pl/itm/NOKIA-N800-WARDRIVING-AIRMON-AIRODUMP-NETSTUMBLER-MOBILE-WLAN-WIFI-SNIFFING-/300656963637?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item46008d3035
May 28 23:47:00 <Estel_> there are fools who buy things like that?
May 28 23:57:32 <merlin1991> Estel_: there is that n900 wardriving kit aswell
May 28 23:57:44 <merlin1991> and we've had people in here asking questions about how todo x with it
May 28 23:57:47 <Estel_> yea, I just wonder if there really are fools buying it
May 28 23:57:50 <merlin1991> so yess seems there are fools
May 28 23:57:54 <Estel_> lol
May 28 23:57:58 <DocScrutinizer51> Estel_: wimax != LTE
May 28 23:58:06 <Estel_> maybe I should start selling something like that on ebay, for half the price ;)
May 28 23:58:12 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, hm?
May 28 23:58:18 <Estel_> I also thoigh like that, but...
May 28 23:58:33 <Estel_> every source on net states as it's same as 4G. Is it the 2nd standard? the losing one?
May 28 23:58:54 <DocScrutinizer51> wimax is more WLAN than LTE
May 28 23:59:42 <Estel_> yea, we have providers of it here in Poznań
May 28 23:59:54 <Estel_> quite expensive, though
May 29 00:00:35 <Estel_> I also remember reading somewhere, about old Nokia plans to release wimax devices and national-wide coverage of wimax, but - IIRC - it was busted by some legal trials?
May 29 00:00:56 <Estel_> ]take this as grain of salt, I could be just reading someone's FUD bullshit
May 29 00:01:18 <Estel_> well, if it's true, then at least *once* Nokia had some concept.
May 29 00:03:45 <cehteh> Estel_: http://paste.debian.net/171655/  ..untested :)
May 29 00:03:46 <DocScrutinizer51> wimax = 802.16
May 29 00:04:31 <Estel_> thanks x2
May 29 00:05:01 <Estel_> well, some idiot is sellinmg N900 with "minimal" defect - it doesn't read SIM card. He want 3/4 of working one price
May 29 00:05:21 <Estel_> I've asked him if he want to buy refrigerator from me - it got minimal defect, it doesn't cool things down
May 29 00:06:00 <Estel_> cehteh, nice, but this kind of automation is a no-go
May 29 00:06:14 <Estel_> it could kick in during heavy load b- and probablyt, would do 99% of times
May 29 00:06:25 <cehteh> yeah i made this for me .. as fast hack now 
May 29 00:06:31 <Estel_> = freeze/kill of applications (lost work, etc) or even freezed/rebooted device
May 29 00:06:36 <Estel_> with high chance for filesystem corruption
May 29 00:06:39 <cehteh> prolly can add checks for load and AC power later on
May 29 00:06:41 * Estel_ nods
May 29 00:06:54 <Estel_> I think such automation isn't good way to go. i rather though about notifications
May 29 00:07:02 <Estel_> for example, 3 x notifiying it
May 29 00:07:08 <Estel_> first time when hit swap fragmentation
May 29 00:07:18 <Estel_> 2nd time after few minutes
May 29 00:07:21 <Estel_> and 3th time after 30 mins
May 29 00:07:35 <Estel_> but left triggering actual reswpa for user
May 29 00:07:39 <Estel_> could put it into power menu
May 29 00:07:40 <cehteh> i'd like this automated .. as long it doesnt disrupt me
May 29 00:07:51 <Estel_> honestly, I'm afraid You can regret that :P
May 29 00:07:55 <cehteh> yes add it to the 'optimize n900 ' scripts
May 29 00:08:13 <Estel_> checks for loads etc are very hard to do properly, I mean that they got tendency to still kick in in bad moment
May 29 00:08:21 <cehteh> anyway, just take the code and use whatever  you like from it
May 29 00:08:27 <Estel_> thanks a lot :)
May 29 00:08:43 <cehteh> has the n900 ionice? i didnt checked
May 29 00:09:17 <cehteh> also before reswapping it would be a sanity check to test if there at least 2 swaps
May 29 00:09:30 <Estel_> :P
May 29 00:09:41 <Estel_> sounds like good idea
May 29 00:09:53 <Estel_> I've checked it while updating rcS late via script, but...
May 29 00:10:00 <Estel_> sanity check during actual reswap sounds better
May 29 00:10:23 <cehteh> yes that doesnt cost much 
May 29 00:11:11 <cehteh> well i test the script as is on my device now :) .. what could happen *eg* :)
May 29 00:27:11 <cehteh> ok small bug .. you need to update OLD after the reswap loop
May 29 00:48:47 <Estel_> cehteh, noticed that
May 29 00:48:49 <Estel_> but thanks anyway
May 29 00:49:28 <Estel_> gosh, i still can't remove this screw from N900's screen
May 29 00:49:34 <Estel_> totally screwed screw, unscrfewable
May 29 00:49:43 <Estel_> and i don't have left-turning drill with me :/
May 29 01:17:37 <Estel_> Jaffa, is there any other way than twitter, for sending things to Maemo weekly News?
May 29 01:17:59 <Estel_> ...for those old fashioned people here, that don't use twitter, facebook, klout and simiular stuff?
May 29 01:18:32 <Estel_> I would love to participate, as I've been always quite aware of thing going on in the community, which seems to only increase after nomination for Councilor...
May 29 01:18:41 <Estel_> although, the twitter way always bounced me off
May 29 01:35:03 <ShadowJK> LiFePo4 is 3.3V nominal
May 29 01:35:52 <ShadowJK> LiFe is short for LiFePo4 :P or maybe it was LiFePO4
May 29 01:38:08 <ShadowJK> yeah, PO4 as in phosphate
May 29 01:40:02 <Estel_> BTW, have anything move in nanowires section?
May 29 01:40:34 <Estel_> it seems researched have stalled a little? Probably founds and lack of will from major company's, as they've already ready lines for older batterie's types?
May 29 01:41:50 <ShadowJK> well also it'll be patent protected for ages, so nobody will be able to make it
May 29 01:42:31 <cehteh> there are turingy nanotechs .. but well no one knows exactly what they put into their soup
May 29 01:42:35 <ShadowJK> My guess would be that it suffers from horrible cycle life
May 29 01:44:12 <ShadowJK> Making things smaller - nano* - increases surface area and should boost energy density, but the typical Lithium cobalt stuff is unstable and eats itself away, so making it smaller means it  eats itself faster. Much of the research done by samsung, panasonic, lg and all is specifically focused on boosting stability
May 29 01:46:24 <ShadowJK> while some people consider the Lithium cobalt based stuff more or less a lost cause, sticking with the Lithium iron chemistry
May 29 01:47:41 <cehteh> LiFe is heavier :P less energy per gramm
May 29 01:47:56 <cehteh> bad for RC-Helis :)
May 29 01:58:52 <robbiethe1st> We just need something better... like hydrocarbon storage!
May 29 02:13:07 <Estel_> or cold fusion ;) Readers of TMO's battery thread will know the pun.
May 29 02:13:46 <Estel_> (someone there - maybe even dr_frost_dk - got interesting battery, than during heavy charging/discharging, as he claimed, tended to feel *colder* than ambient)
May 29 02:14:33 <Estel_> (won't belive without seeing hard proofs :P )
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 29 02:59:58 2012