**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 03 02:59:59 2012 Jun 03 05:43:04 I agree! Jun 03 06:24:53 * Sc0rpius yawns Jun 03 08:19:22 N900 Jun 03 08:19:35 Y U NO LET ME RUN ON USB-ONLY? Jun 03 08:19:44 cuz it's not possible Jun 03 08:20:05 tx bursts can take 2As, the fastcharger gives at most 1.1 Jun 03 08:20:26 what tx bursts? Jun 03 08:20:43 gsm/umts radio Jun 03 08:21:20 I don't care about that, put it in offline mode Jun 03 08:21:34 then it kinda works Jun 03 08:21:35 ish Jun 03 08:21:40 stop the bme Jun 03 08:22:17 why isn't it working in uboot? Jun 03 08:23:18 I'm pretty sure that doesn't use 3G for anything *trollface* Jun 03 08:25:27 kerio: with bluetooth/*G/wifi disabled with an applet, it now takes a second to shut down after switching to USB Jun 03 08:26:24 kerio: oh, I was browsing on the wiki, and I now know what BME is /facepalm Jun 03 08:32:53 the N900 is annoying Jun 03 08:33:53 so, if it's off, I can't really boot it when it's charging, it vibrates every minute, and if it's connected to the laptop, I can see that when it vibrates, it enables a strange "firmware update" device for a couple of seconds Jun 03 08:35:06 Something's screwy with it Jun 03 08:35:17 It's in a boot-loop when in charging-mode Jun 03 08:35:45 it /should/ vibrate, show a dark nokia logo, and then appear to be off for the remainder of the charging period Jun 03 08:36:03 it somehow manages to do that in a loop Jun 03 08:36:26 Yeah, sounds like a crash to me; something like DSME rebooting the machine when in that mode Jun 03 08:37:19 kerio: offline-mode, no bme, and without battery: works fine for about ten seconds, then the screen fades out, the backlight is still on, the led is constant orange, and it doesn't look like anything is running Jun 03 08:37:41 :( Jun 03 08:38:12 Turn off the screen before removing the battery? Jun 03 08:38:41 oh, so that's another power-whore? Jun 03 08:38:48 damn Jun 03 08:38:59 Well, the backlight certainly is Jun 03 08:39:08 It's like... more than any other component Jun 03 08:39:28 damn cheap charger Jun 03 08:39:49 Either way, charging with no battery should be only for use while swapping out the battery, not for running Jun 03 08:40:11 If for no other reason than the charger chip will only charge for max. 1 hr before shutting off without BME there Jun 03 08:40:11 DocScrutinizer, do you know some small dhcp v6 client? Jun 03 08:40:13 I wonder how many Amps my laptop can provide Jun 03 08:40:17 something for n900 Jun 03 08:40:36 eddyb, 500mA Jun 03 08:40:36 robbiethe1st: why can't it run like the beagleboard, without a battery? Jun 03 08:40:48 Cause it's not designed for it Jun 03 08:41:05 I don't think it would be that hard Jun 03 08:41:13 I looked into extras repository, but there is none dhcp v6 client Jun 03 08:41:35 You could probably build a 3.5-4V power supply, hook it up to a dummy battery connector, replace the battery with that and it'd run fine Jun 03 08:41:44 Pali: no, sorry Jun 03 08:41:50 eddyb: it IS hard Jun 03 08:42:04 I mean, the beagle-board, IIRC, can run on standard USB power from a computer Jun 03 08:42:14 robbiethe1st: nope, not that easy Jun 03 08:42:18 why not? Jun 03 08:42:37 you need extremely thick cables and a huge capacitor Jun 03 08:43:06 for 500mA or less? Capacitor, relatively large, yeah, but... Jun 03 08:43:20 it could dim or even stop the damn backlit Jun 03 08:43:21 impedance of "battery" has to be low, to level the surges from modem Jun 03 08:43:40 I only need it to boot something from uboot with the battery taken out, so I can get some UART output Jun 03 08:44:37 Just make sure your switching PS unit is designed for very quick response and have a decent capacitor, run it at the high end of the voltage range... Jun 03 08:44:50 is there any list of known dhcp v6 clients? Jun 03 08:45:31 you know what? Jun 03 08:45:38 we need a battery extender Jun 03 08:46:14 ooh, kerio already explained all this Jun 03 08:46:15 then again, it's gonna be hard to craft one Jun 03 08:46:51 (like, have the battery connected, but not directly) Jun 03 08:48:52 btw I run the device for several hours without battery ;-) Jun 03 08:49:08 ~hotswap Jun 03 08:49:09 i heard hotswap is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=57734 Jun 03 08:49:45 but that's not possible for booting, as NOLO will refuse to boot when battery missing Jun 03 09:10:25 mkay Jun 03 09:10:42 I just realized my arduino "robot" has an infrared receiver Jun 03 09:11:35 now, if it's even the same wavelength as the N900, I don't know Jun 03 09:11:44 it should be, since the N900 can work with remotes Jun 03 09:13:55 I'm hoping one of the three UARTs is directly connected to the IR Jun 03 10:45:03 qard && qard upload # heh, this still works to build & upload my arduino projects. it's a hack I've done about an year ago Jun 03 11:35:16 http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lp5523.pdf wow, that's pretty complicated for a freaking LED driver Jun 03 11:58:53 can anyone help me with this? paste: http://cur.lv/jao Jun 03 12:03:30 ... Jun 03 12:03:34 non343 you human? Jun 03 12:09:06 >redirects Jun 03 12:09:14 noooope. ban time. Jun 03 12:10:32 X-Fade: DocScrutinizer51 non343 ban pls Jun 03 12:12:34 hm? Jun 03 12:12:40 can anyone help me with this? paste: http://cur.lv/jao Jun 03 12:12:43 yes i am human Jun 03 12:13:05 non343: ehrm it redirects to a bitcoin page... Jun 03 12:13:19 no it doesnt Jun 03 12:13:20 pls elaborate Jun 03 12:14:17 non343: stop spamming Jun 03 12:14:24 non343: and never come back Jun 03 12:14:34 non343: we hate people like you Jun 03 12:14:40 the link is shit Jun 03 12:14:42 >shorten links and earn bitcoins Jun 03 12:14:45 guise, dont click on it Jun 03 12:15:19 * chem|st is searching for his banHAMMER but cannot find it, bets DocScrutinizer51 got it and never gave it back Jun 03 12:15:25 also, it links to reddit. you know the implications. Jun 03 12:15:27 non343: please doublecheck before you paste links here Jun 03 12:15:38 N900, never overclocked, seeing some weird video artefacts> http://cdn-static.com/i/HytjYKhO.png - is my N900 dying? Jun 03 12:16:04 vldcnst: try flashing it Jun 03 12:16:20 I'm willing to assume you plannewd to paste a shorted link to a page with your problem Jun 03 12:16:27 vldcnst, disable WSEGL_HWSync=1 Jun 03 12:16:29 don"t do that Jun 03 12:16:38 disable smartreflex too Jun 03 12:16:45 jacekowski: any reason for a reflash? I mean, any idea what caused this? Jun 03 12:16:47 no it doesnt Jun 03 12:16:53 can anyone help me with this? paste: http://cur.lv/jao Jun 03 12:17:07 its a bot I guess Jun 03 12:17:07 check your links before pasting! do not use short URLs Jun 03 12:17:23 damn Jun 03 12:17:26 no what is 4 plus 7 Jun 03 12:17:26 if it were up to me he would have ban by now Jun 03 12:17:36 non343: what is 4 plus 7 Jun 03 12:17:59 what's the name? Jun 03 12:18:06 non343 Jun 03 12:18:09 11 Jun 03 12:18:13 non343: you get banned Jun 03 12:18:31 non343: proper link or we assume you are a bot and you will be gone! Jun 03 12:19:05 vldcnst, do you have WSEGL_HWSync=1 and/or smartreflex enabled? Jun 03 12:19:15 dang, this was a gym Jun 03 12:19:16 those may occasionally cause that problem Jun 03 12:19:17 Hurrian: smartreflex is off, I don't know how to disable WSEGL (never touched that) Jun 03 12:19:21 ah Jun 03 12:19:26 does it persist after a reboot? Jun 03 12:19:30 laptop stacked under and behind another machine Jun 03 12:19:33 usually no, but lately yes. Jun 03 12:19:53 a bad flexcable maybe Jun 03 12:20:06 occurs in the same place with same pattern? Jun 03 12:20:30 Yup, when starting an app Jun 03 12:20:55 after a reboot the pattern/place changes Jun 03 12:21:22 ah, it's probably video memory corruption. Jun 03 12:21:28 it does happen to some N900s Jun 03 12:21:34 what kernel are you on right now? Jun 03 12:21:50 power50 Jun 03 12:22:34 as far as I can tell, it only appears on the top menu bar Jun 03 12:23:08 nah, it happens with PNGs with alpha translucency Jun 03 12:23:12 oh. Jun 03 12:23:19 it can happen to the icons in the launcher too Jun 03 12:23:37 any fix? Jun 03 12:23:51 shutdown, pull battery for 5 mins, boot Jun 03 12:24:22 like I said, that used to work but lately it doesn't Jun 03 12:24:29 or perhaps I'm unlucky Jun 03 12:24:41 keep rebooting, it's a known bug. Jun 03 12:24:52 i'm pretty damn sure Nemo isn't affected Jun 03 12:26:54 cool, thanks Jun 03 12:27:11 btw Jun 03 12:27:23 the minified link with that bitcoin thing minifier Jun 03 12:27:26 was reddit.com Jun 03 12:27:32 not an actual pastebin link Jun 03 12:28:56 eddyb, noticed that. it would be a good idea if nobody clicked on it, as that probably gives em monies Jun 03 12:29:38 * eddyb wonders if it can be abused to get bitcoins Jun 03 12:30:15 I once managed to generate points on some site, but I found out it was fake afterwards Jun 03 14:08:46 when do the community awards end? Jun 03 14:10:35 tomorrow Jun 03 14:10:42 great Jun 03 14:17:40 \o/ Jun 03 14:53:17 Sicelo: last week of june Jun 03 14:53:29 or did something change? Jun 03 15:27:27 does anybody know which speed option in h-e-n would be suitable for flashing N900 with another one? Jun 03 15:29:14 HIgh speed. don't mount Jun 03 15:29:30 thanks Jun 03 15:30:11 enumerate after yellow light shows up? Jun 03 15:33:06 not sure, but sounds reasonable. you must, of course, have flasher ready Jun 03 15:34:09 Yeah, seems to work, but so far no suitable device found Jun 03 15:34:33 so... Jun 03 15:34:38 might need to switch batteries, doesn't want to boot up in flashing state Jun 03 15:35:30 is there any way to get the UART TX pin from the pads under the battery, with the battery in place? Jun 03 15:36:13 I can kinda get a wire from there, but it's not really staying on top of the pad when I place the battery back Jun 03 15:36:23 win 24 Jun 03 15:36:37 ? Jun 03 15:37:32 wrong window Jun 03 15:38:49 bit of cello tape maybe? Jun 03 15:40:18 szopin: not sure if I can get any kind of tape in there to hold the wire Jun 03 15:40:50 I was thinking something waxy might be better Jun 03 15:40:55 placing the battery is very likely to move it Jun 03 15:41:07 maybe a tine piece of bluetack Jun 03 15:41:08 yepp, is very sure to move it Jun 03 15:41:15 tiny* Jun 03 15:42:30 Pali, pong Jun 03 15:46:15 I need freaking nanotubes... Jun 03 15:47:13 anyone has experience with wxWidgets on maemo? Jun 03 15:52:54 I'll end up soldering this stuff without any tools Jun 03 15:53:39 cello tape a tiny copper wire (without coating)? Jun 03 15:53:58 just so inserting battery will not move it Jun 03 15:54:10 I don't have anything that tiny Jun 03 15:54:30 just cut some usual wire and pull one strand Jun 03 15:54:48 and the pads are inset about 2mm, placing anything in there is hard Jun 03 15:55:00 szopin: wait, what? Jun 03 15:55:11 the battery is sitting on metal Jun 03 15:55:11 yeah, mcgyver would use matches, but... Jun 03 15:55:27 oh, let me have another look Jun 03 15:55:55 I guess it wouldn't be that hard if that wasn't shielded :P Jun 03 15:56:10 yeah, first coating of cello tape for isolation, then tiny wire, then second layer Jun 03 15:56:46 still doesn't guarantee you'll be connecting to the right one though Jun 03 15:57:03 I know which pad is the one I want, the problem is fixating this Jun 03 15:57:25 just cover the other ones and place a wide end there Jun 03 15:58:15 cut a small plastic block to fill the whole space. make a hole in it at the right place & get your wire in there Jun 03 15:58:18 :\ Jun 03 15:58:39 :) Jun 03 16:02:05 this will allow you to get more than one pin, if you wish Jun 03 16:05:05 that's why I need to get myself some tools and stuff Jun 03 16:05:39 now, how can I read an USB tty at a certain bitrate? Jun 03 16:07:06 ? those pins under battery are second usb??? Jun 03 16:08:08 no. same as the other one Jun 03 16:08:25 1. the USB you can see is actually the fourth USB (and the only one that's dual-mode, the rest are host-only) 2. there's an UART TX pin under there Jun 03 16:08:27 except, iirc, they don't have protection Jun 03 16:08:43 and I want to use my arduino board to read the serial output Jun 03 16:09:30 hmm Jun 03 16:09:57 nice Jun 03 16:09:59 ~usb-fix Jun 03 16:10:00 extra, extra, read all about it, usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) Jun 03 16:12:01 fucking battery Jun 03 16:13:29 are these there from testing times? you could maybe build a base around it, providing same voltage as battery and get clear access to those Jun 03 16:20:05 maybe it's connected now Jun 03 16:21:07 gl Jun 03 16:24:05 maybe it's not, since I set the right baud and the laptop is still not receiving Jun 03 16:24:09 :( Jun 03 16:25:43 I might go play minecraft, this is too annoying Jun 03 16:58:07 Does Whatsapp for the n900 exist? Jun 03 17:00:29 No Jun 03 17:00:41 http://blog.gsmarena.com/unofficial-whatsapp-for-nokia-n9-and-n900-in-the-works/ Jun 03 17:02:01 so...maybe some day Jun 03 17:36:19 Jaffa: good afternoon Jun 03 17:36:52 Is this relvent to our interests? Jun 03 17:36:53 http://linux-howto-guide.blogspot.co.uk/2009/10/increase-usb-flash-drive-write-speed.html Jun 03 17:38:39 Also, how do I fsck rootfs? Jun 03 17:38:41 ... Jun 03 17:38:46 WHERE is it? Jun 03 17:39:11 does ubifs even have fsck? Jun 03 17:39:19 ubi? Jun 03 17:39:30 NIN101: I do not know. I am very ignorant about ubifs Jun 03 17:42:58 vi_, it dodesn't Jun 03 17:43:11 because it doesn't get fcked like ext Jun 03 17:43:40 if Your rootfs is corrupted, it's rather some file modified bny hand Jun 03 17:43:46 ...wrong package Jun 03 17:43:48 or whatever Jun 03 17:44:08 generally, rootfs is super-prone to filesystem corruption Jun 03 17:44:28 (but not to fcked file content, that why backupmenu backups help) Jun 03 17:44:45 eddyb, little question Jun 03 17:45:18 hmm? Jun 03 17:45:31 if Youw know already - and You apparently know - that pads from beneath battery are same d+ and d- that main usb, why using those... Jun 03 17:45:41 instead of "regular" usb socket? Jun 03 17:46:10 arduino connected to usb and ou want to debug something via laptop connected paralelly? Jun 03 17:46:31 :| Jun 03 17:46:37 I'm not using the USB Jun 03 17:46:46 roger that Jun 03 17:46:57 but, be careful about uart Jun 03 17:47:11 it's super fragile re voltage applied Jun 03 17:47:25 I need the UART output from the N900 Jun 03 17:47:26 even 0.2 above desigbned voltage tends to fry it Jun 03 17:47:34 it's documented somewhere on wiki Jun 03 17:47:39 ok, two possible ways Jun 03 17:47:41 not the input, mind you Jun 03 17:47:46 less elegant, but super easy Jun 03 17:47:57 solder cable to pad. easy to solder and de-solder Jun 03 17:48:08 more elegant, require little effort: Jun 03 17:48:12 but don't bother, I dropped that already Jun 03 17:48:37 dissaseble some cheap battery, and usi it pins to make "extender" for battery Jun 03 17:48:45 You put extender only on N900 Jun 03 17:48:46 some things are better left buried Jun 03 17:48:55 connected to any ion outside Jun 03 17:49:02 I see. Jun 03 17:49:10 btw what You wanted to do with that? Jun 03 17:49:16 I'm noob re uart on N900 Jun 03 17:49:32 maybe it's worth pursuit, after all. what was the plan? Jun 03 17:49:44 I wanted to get a defunct hobby OS project's kernel running on the N900 Jun 03 17:50:04 O_o Jun 03 17:50:11 and why need uart for that? Jun 03 17:50:13 the build is meant for the original beagle-board, and the only output simple enough to not fail is the UART Jun 03 17:50:17 * vi_ fires up the popcorn machine. Jun 03 17:50:37 I see, somehow Jun 03 17:50:45 You can never have to many OS s Jun 03 17:50:46 it's the only debug option I have Jun 03 17:50:51 well, flashing it normally wouldn't work? Jun 03 17:51:06 Estel_: I need the debug output Jun 03 17:51:12 understood Jun 03 17:51:25 as i said I don't know what uart does (yet) Jun 03 17:51:33 so, battery extender seems fine Jun 03 17:51:36 BTW Jun 03 17:51:44 ultra cheap jtag cables for N900 Jun 03 17:51:44 it's serial I/O Jun 03 17:51:59 contain pins for our pads Jun 03 17:52:00 I think the r00t|home user on this chanel put a logic analyser on the UART. Jun 03 17:52:09 just attaching mentioned "battry extender"* to it Jun 03 17:52:13 = fake battery Jun 03 17:52:19 He s the one who figured out the pads under the battery Jun 03 17:52:20 (using real ion) Jun 03 17:52:31 I don't have the tools to solder/etc. Jun 03 17:52:37 jacekowski did some things with it too Jun 03 17:52:43 eddyb: then you are pretty much fooked then Jun 03 17:52:49 no soldering iron, no fun :P Jun 03 17:53:00 although, still achievable without Jun 03 17:53:02 eddyb: unless you can get hold of a super rare n900 developer harness. Jun 03 17:53:13 vi_: as I'm already in the "oh, screw it, working on a perfect OS is not my thing" state Jun 03 17:53:22 well, dissasembling cheap bl-5j can be done with bare hands Jun 03 17:53:39 then, tying wires around flat wires... :P Jun 03 17:53:46 mcgyver would be pleased Jun 03 17:53:51 not very reliable, though Jun 03 17:54:18 * Estel_ lols at WielkiTost name Jun 03 17:55:14 aha! so wielkitost as iactually DOS! Jun 03 17:55:19 always suspected that Jun 03 17:55:26 since times of win 3.1 Jun 03 17:55:32 :P Jun 03 17:56:08 I'm afraid to talk to him, as he can disco again. Jun 03 18:14:09 ehhh Jun 03 18:14:14 it was me Jun 03 18:14:48 Estel_: slightly offtopic question, but your wrt54gl, do you run openwrt on that? Jun 03 18:18:06 HRH_H_Crab, currently, Tomato... I know openWRT got more possibilities and probably will switch one day Jun 03 18:18:27 i just managed to "unbrick" mine this afternoon. Jun 03 18:18:38 i actually think i just managed to tftp a firmware that worked. Jun 03 18:18:56 i think i need to build a custom firmware though, so it has some space for some cool stuff. Jun 03 18:19:00 one day will try OpenWRT with latest web based gui, as possibility for easy management *not*only for me via command line is essential Jun 03 18:19:03 thats my next project. Jun 03 18:19:13 the gui is lovely. Jun 03 18:19:25 just means that there isnt much space Jun 03 18:19:34 HRH_H_Crab, on wrt54GL You won't scavenge much space, soldering sd card or usb port is a must Jun 03 18:19:43 hmmm. Jun 03 18:19:47 well, I had 900 KB left from 4MB chip Jun 03 18:19:55 and tried 70 kb dircproxy Jun 03 18:20:01 maybe i should get a soldering iron and try that then. Jun 03 18:20:12 but im not really much of a hardware hacker. Jun 03 18:20:15 ...but it turned out that, to work properly, I need 890 kb update ulibc :P Jun 03 18:20:24 HRH_H_Crab, sd card mod is super easy Jun 03 18:20:30 tbh though, if i can manage that, Jun 03 18:20:34 i might use debian instead! Jun 03 18:20:46 usb too, but it require making (easysecondary board with few components added, so it's more complicated Jun 03 18:21:03 yea, but isn't debian overkill for hardware with 200 mhz and 16 mb ram! Jun 03 18:21:08 s/!/?/ Jun 03 18:21:10 Estel_ meant: yea, but isn't debian overkill for hardware with 200 mhz and 16 mb ram? Jun 03 18:21:20 lol Jun 03 18:21:23 openwrt with optware sounds like better suited Jun 03 18:21:27 s/o/u/ Jun 03 18:21:28 eddyb meant: lul Jun 03 18:21:37 s/u/o Jun 03 18:21:40 s/u/o/ Jun 03 18:21:41 eddyb meant: s/o/o Jun 03 18:21:53 oho, eddyb discovered infobot's sed :P Jun 03 18:22:00 Estel_: im running debian on my nslu2s... Jun 03 18:22:05 they arent much better Jun 03 18:22:08 well Jun 03 18:22:09 s/o/u/ Jun 03 18:22:10 sounds nice Jun 03 18:22:11 works very nicely indeed. Jun 03 18:22:12 eddyb meant: s/u/u Jun 03 18:22:24 wait a second, I'll fire up desktops IRC Jun 03 18:22:46 debian sucks for embedded Jun 03 18:23:47 http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/blog/?p=228 Jun 03 18:23:49 heh Jun 03 18:23:51 that sounds fun Jun 03 18:25:17 yea, but I'm afraid You will end up re-doing what optware did already, = Jun 03 18:25:26 ...stripping down packages to function properly Jun 03 18:25:36 and modifying them to suit specific WRT54gl use case Jun 03 18:25:56 something like using debian apckage son N900 and modyfing it to fit gui/hardware ;) Jun 03 18:26:02 if someone did it already, why to re-do it Jun 03 18:26:06 that why i preffe rusing optware Jun 03 18:26:23 BTw, have You used tomato on wrt54gl? how do you compare it with optware re gui-only management? Jun 03 18:26:35 ive not used tomato Jun 03 18:26:38 I see Jun 03 18:26:51 well, tomato is, generally, gui only (is use temrinal via ssh and can do things from there, but...) Jun 03 18:26:56 when i did use my wrt54gl i only used it as a switch / wireless ap Jun 03 18:27:03 its long since been replaced by an airport Jun 03 18:27:06 so I would happily switch to openwrt with gui, so family cna use guii Jun 03 18:27:13 s/guii/gui/ Jun 03 18:27:13 Estel_ meant: so I would happily switch to openwrt with gui, so family cna use gui Jun 03 18:27:18 i used to configure it by commandline Jun 03 18:27:24 and me also, when need to do something fast... And tyerminal for real stuff Jun 03 18:27:36 i wanted to use ipv6 since im lucky enough to have native ipv6 at home, Jun 03 18:27:41 and i wanted a 2.6 kernel Jun 03 18:27:47 i found that that made the wrt54gl unstable Jun 03 18:27:49 I see. Well, tomato also have 2.6 kernel:p Jun 03 18:27:53 it would reboot after a few days Jun 03 18:27:57 hm Jun 03 18:28:06 well, I use wrt54gl as main home router/AP Jun 03 18:28:07 so the first thing i did was disable luci (the web gui) and uhttpd Jun 03 18:28:23 in the hope that that would make it a bit more stable and id manage a week of uptime... Jun 03 18:28:25 luci amd eit unstable?0_o Jun 03 18:28:26 it never did. Jun 03 18:28:36 i dont think the web interface had anything to do with it. Jun 03 18:28:46 i think 2.6 is dodgy on openwrt Jun 03 18:28:46 well, My wrt54gl with tomato *never* ever reboot on it's own. During so many years usage Jun 03 18:28:56 im sure ive read somewhere that if you want stability stick to 2.4 Jun 03 18:29:11 I use 2.4... Jun 03 18:29:16 yes... Jun 03 18:29:20 i think this is the key. Jun 03 18:29:21 so can't say about stability with openwrt Jun 03 18:29:27 tfu Jun 03 18:29:31 about stability with tomato and 2.6 Jun 03 18:29:46 but but, I haven't seen complains about tomato and 2.6 Jun 03 18:29:48 i think with the 2.4 openwrt you should (hopefully) enjoy the same stability you enjoy with tomato. Jun 03 18:29:52 and can't belive that openwrt would be inferior Jun 03 18:30:11 BTW, how much jffs space You've left with openwrt? Jun 03 18:30:18 installed? Jun 03 18:30:20 Hi. How do I change the $HOSTNAME on my N900? I have two and don't want them clashing Jun 03 18:30:22 (with luci) Jun 03 18:30:23 i think ive got about 740k Jun 03 18:30:35 with 2.6 kernel? Jun 03 18:30:58 it should be more with 2.4 Jun 03 18:31:30 as for soldering card, just be sure to find proper tutorial for wrt54gl, and You'll be fine Jun 03 18:31:52 it's a matter fo soldering few cables Jun 03 18:32:19 anyway, You mayw ant to add sd card reade (only part that hold card, actually) or use floppy disk flex Jun 03 18:32:33 it's prot have same pin overlay as sd card Jun 03 18:32:46 = you can stick sd card to floppy flex plug :p Jun 03 18:32:47 Estel_: hang on Jun 03 18:32:49 let me boot it Jun 03 18:32:50 and use same cables Jun 03 18:32:54 and i will tell you exactly... Jun 03 18:32:56 * Estel_ nods Jun 03 18:34:46 wups, I should say how do I change the result of $(uname -n) ? Jun 03 18:35:30 kwtm, device name in bluetooth settings Jun 03 18:35:37 changing it change that AFAIK Jun 03 18:35:52 HRH_H_Crab, BTw, how You debricked it? Jun 03 18:35:54 using jtag? Jun 03 18:36:43 Estel_: Thx Jun 03 18:37:48 Estel_: Takes effect after reboot, I guess? Jun 03 18:38:03 Free space: 77% (740.00 KB) Jun 03 18:38:12 Estel_: no Jun 03 18:38:24 im not sure if i ever bricked it Jun 03 18:38:36 i tried upgrading the firmware from the commandline Jun 03 18:38:44 to the latest version of trunk Jun 03 18:38:55 and after it rebooted i couldnt do anything with it. Jun 03 18:39:04 anyway, i left it for a month or so Jun 03 18:39:19 and today i thought i would have a play and i realised this time i could suddenly ping it. Jun 03 18:39:32 so i just farted around tftping various firmwares. Jun 03 18:39:42 i just made sure the thing was unplugged, Jun 03 18:39:55 tftp to 192.168.1.1 Jun 03 18:39:58 mode to binary Jun 03 18:40:16 and then "put " Jun 03 18:40:21 ofc that failed as the router wasnt on Jun 03 18:40:24 but then i turned it on Jun 03 18:40:31 and kept hammering away until it accepted it Jun 03 18:40:37 waited for it to reboot and i was in Jun 03 18:40:43 but i had to go back to 2.4 Jun 03 18:40:55 with a stable firmware Jun 03 18:41:03 then i upgraded to the 2.6 from luci Jun 03 18:41:47 something strange has happened though Jun 03 18:41:56 when i was playing earlier im sure the dmz light was on Jun 03 18:41:58 and ssh was working Jun 03 18:42:09 just now i rebooted and tried to ssh and it wouldnt accept the connection Jun 03 18:42:13 and dmz lamp was off Jun 03 18:42:18 i thought it was bricked again Jun 03 18:42:22 but luci is working Jun 03 18:42:29 so maybe mine is a bit "sick" Jun 03 18:44:35 hm Jun 03 18:44:45 when i bought mine, it was flashed with openwrt, during times when there was no luci Jun 03 18:44:58 and i flashed it via telnet Jun 03 18:45:03 but it isn't debricking, literally Jun 03 18:45:15 maybe sometihng is disabled re Your ssh? Jun 03 18:45:27 and possible to enable it via luci? Jun 03 18:47:39 luci thinks its running. Jun 03 18:47:50 (ssh) Jun 03 18:49:39 Estel_: O Jun 03 18:49:41 err Jun 03 18:49:47 I'm such a fucking idiot Jun 03 18:50:09 don't tell like that, it's DocScrutinizer specialisation ;) Jun 03 18:50:28 HRh, hm Jun 03 18:50:29 I didn't connect GND to my USB2serial thing Jun 03 18:50:35 only the signal line Jun 03 18:50:40 eddyb, :D Jun 03 18:50:46 Estel_: im flashin again Jun 03 18:50:46 no wonders it wasn't catching anything Jun 03 18:50:54 this is the beauty of this thin Jun 03 18:50:58 its just a toy to me. Jun 03 18:51:01 eddyb, see, told ya it's worth further pursuit :P Jun 03 18:51:06 i can just mess with it. Jun 03 18:51:11 man, and I had the wire fixed in there, and I took it out Jun 03 18:51:12 HRH_H_Crab, nice :) Jun 03 18:51:13 DAMN Jun 03 18:51:28 worse case scenario a fancy blue paperweight with devil horns Jun 03 18:54:06 root@OpenWrt:~# uname -a Jun 03 18:54:06 Linux OpenWrt 2.6.32.27 #5 Wed Dec 21 05:56:26 CET 2011 mips GNU/Linux Jun 03 18:54:10 strange... Jun 03 18:54:24 oh well Jun 03 18:54:28 that fixed it... Jun 03 18:54:32 (for the moment) Jun 03 18:59:56 nice :) Jun 03 19:00:09 BTW, wrt54gl is kinda "unbrickable" Jun 03 19:00:14 i.e. until you actuallym fry it... Jun 03 19:00:18 it never becomes paperweight Jun 03 19:00:39 and it's hard to fry it even using overclocking to 300 mhz (50%) Jun 03 19:00:44 as it just shut down gently Jun 03 19:01:17 BTW, if You ever need it, overlcocking to 250 mhz is super safe Jun 03 19:01:29 and, after all, 1/4 more power Jun 03 19:01:36 (in case you want debian there) Jun 03 19:01:48 why would you want to run debian on an AP Jun 03 19:04:04 jacekowski, canuse then, it's 20$ (with tax) full-fledged computer :P Jun 03 19:04:06 but Jun 03 19:04:15 can it run xbmc? Jun 03 19:04:16 as I said, i think openwrt and optware is more than enough Jun 03 19:04:24 AFAIk it can run everything, it's pure linux Jun 03 19:04:34 2.6 kernel (or 2.4, whatever you feel fancy) Jun 03 19:04:40 does it have enough processing power to run xbmc? Jun 03 19:04:43 and ram Jun 03 19:04:44 and hdmi out Jun 03 19:04:54 no idea about xbmc, but people turn it to media copntrolling thing easily Jun 03 19:05:05 seriously, xbmc is bloated as hell Jun 03 19:05:08 Estel_: why does everyone around me have to push me back on track? I can't fail miserably without my gf proving to me that I'm not a retard Jun 03 19:05:26 hehe Jun 03 19:05:38 if You girlfriend tell You to keep connectint cable to N900's uart... Jun 03 19:05:44 then consider yourself lucky one. Jun 03 19:06:00 BTW Jun 03 19:06:05 HRH_H_Crab, http://www.jbprojects.net/articles/wrt54gl_mods/ Jun 03 19:06:18 controlling outside's electornic via serial ports seems nice. Jun 03 19:06:35 gonna maker touter with legs that will make me cofee, some day ;) Jun 03 19:06:40 ew WRT54GL Jun 03 19:06:46 s/touter/router/ Jun 03 19:06:48 Estel_ meant: gonna maker router with legs that will make me cofee, some day ;) Jun 03 19:07:15 say what You want, I bet first robot with personality will be made using wrt54* design Jun 03 19:07:16 Raspberry Pi is cheaper and better IMO Jun 03 19:07:34 ...and will shake it's antennas upon seeing You coming back home, due to hapinness Jun 03 19:07:41 luke-jr, raspberry pi isn't cheaper Jun 03 19:07:49 but for many things of course it's better suited Jun 03 19:07:55 i.e. xbmc mentione dby jacekowski Jun 03 19:08:23 but, for things related to being AP - obviously - wrt54gl is much better suited and cheaper, of course Jun 03 19:08:41 except for it only running an ancient non-free fork of Linux Jun 03 19:08:44 and 802.11g only Jun 03 19:08:56 might as well just spend $67 on a nice WZR-HP-G300NH Jun 03 19:08:59 802.11n isn't usable for anything except jamming Your neighborn wifi, lol Jun 03 19:09:07 ..due to occupying 40 mhz wide channels Jun 03 19:09:26 and wrt54gl run free linux for ages Jun 03 19:09:28 more memory and flash are handy still Jun 03 19:09:32 of course. Jun 03 19:09:34 Estel_: oh? news to me Jun 03 19:09:42 although, its possible to - without rocket science - solder more memory Jun 03 19:09:45 not feasible, IMO Jun 03 19:09:52 luke-jr, see openwrt Jun 03 19:09:54 tomato Jun 03 19:09:56 whatever Jun 03 19:10:05 Openwrt still used 2.4 blobs on WRT54G last I checked Jun 03 19:10:13 everything uses blobs ;) Jun 03 19:10:17 raspberry pi too. Jun 03 19:10:29 BTW, 2.6 kernel is also available on wrt54g* Jun 03 19:11:12 raspberry pi have blobs for graphic and such, wrt54gl have blobs for some broadcom thing... no surprise, sadly. At leats wrt54g* blobs play vnicely with open things Jun 03 19:11:13 WZR doesn't use blobs Jun 03 19:11:23 sounds interesting Jun 03 19:11:53 it ships with DD-Wrt too Jun 03 19:11:59 anyway, wrt54g* can be bought for really, really, *really* cheap, and if You don't need fancy things and/or want to solder them Yourself... thats why most robots made of AP's are using wrt54g* Jun 03 19:12:07 dd-wrt is more non-free, lol Jun 03 19:12:19 I run Openwrt on it :p Jun 03 19:12:19 after all, it's using free and non-free version Jun 03 19:12:22 yea Jun 03 19:12:25 openwrt kick ass. Jun 03 19:12:36 still, shipping DD-Wrt is a big step forward Jun 03 19:12:42 of course Jun 03 19:13:17 anyway, for now, i plan to run irc bouncer on my reliable router'ish friend Jun 03 19:13:26 +, probably, some more things, when need arise Jun 03 19:15:09 * luke-jr should make use of the USB port somehow Jun 03 19:17:03 heh Jun 03 19:17:10 i got a firmware from trunk working Jun 03 19:17:39 Linux OpenWrt 3.3.7 #1 Sun Jun 3 07:47:24 PDT 2012 mips GNU/Linux Jun 03 19:17:50 this has no luci though Jun 03 19:18:19 337 Jun 03 19:18:42 built today Jun 03 19:19:10 ♥ MIPS Jun 03 19:19:52 anyway, thats enough playing. Jun 03 19:19:56 time for some cooking, Jun 03 19:20:30 bon apetit :) Jun 03 19:20:33 i think my next move will be to make a custom firmware, even if its just to play with the sdk and figure out how it works. Jun 03 19:20:49 good idea. Jun 03 19:20:57 http://www.jbprojects.net/articles/wrt54gl_mods/ Jun 03 19:21:01 ncie illustrated guide to sd mod Jun 03 19:21:05 and serial console mod Jun 03 19:21:14 if You want to solder card, I recommend following this one Jun 03 19:21:57 it looks way too hardcore for me, but i might just give it ago. Jun 03 19:22:07 after all i can afford to kill it. Jun 03 19:22:13 its not like i need it for anything. Jun 03 19:24:17 ping Estel Jun 03 19:24:24 Pali, pong Jun 03 19:25:03 HRH_H_Crab, firts part is serial itnerfac,e You can skip to sd card section, which isn't hardcore at all Jun 03 19:25:17 it's easier than soldering down N900's usb port Jun 03 19:26:59 Estel, I have one question for you as council member: I have working ipv6 support in maemo5. it is in icd2 daemon - so the best solution. But it needs closed source nokia ipv6 icd2 plugin from maemo4. This package is here: catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/updates/diablo-2/libicd-network-ipv6_0.15-0.1_armel.deb but is not redistributable. Can you ask somebody if could be this packages pushed to Fremantle Extras? Jun 03 19:27:48 proper ipv6 support (with dhcpv6) in maemo5 for wlan is very usefull Jun 03 19:27:53 and this is blocker Jun 03 19:28:10 all other ipv6 packages in diablo are open source so it can be pushed to extras without problem Jun 03 19:28:19 Pali, of course I'll be honored to ask qgil about it, but, AFAIK, you can redistribute it for fremantle even now... Jun 03 19:28:35 using same exception as freemangordon with dsp from harmattan on N900 Jun 03 19:28:48 I want to push that package to fremantle extras Jun 03 19:28:50 i.e. "allowance to use closed Nokia bits, if for benefit of Nokia devices users" Jun 03 19:28:53 yea Jun 03 19:29:21 I'm absolutely, definitely sure, that it's allowed following mentioned exception, but of course, I can also ask Jun 03 19:29:42 ok, better ask :-) Jun 03 19:29:45 Pali: DHCPv6? who uses that? Jun 03 19:30:32 luke-jr, that nokia plugin support static ip address and dhcp too Jun 03 19:30:50 Pali: why not autodiscovery? Jun 03 19:31:24 I do not want to disassemble that plugin :-) Jun 03 19:32:28 also, IPv6 works fine in Maemo 5 with the IPv6 extensions already O.o Jun 03 19:33:41 luke-jr, but it is not integrated into icd2 Jun 03 19:33:48 or yes? Jun 03 19:33:55 Pali: yes? Jun 03 19:33:59 and which extensions? Jun 03 19:34:05 I just pick the IPv6 network from the connection manager Jun 03 19:34:17 http://n900-ipv6.garage.maemo.org/ iirc Jun 03 19:34:45 hmm no, that's older Jun 03 19:35:25 but that needs to edit /etc/resolv.conf Jun 03 19:35:44 and on n900 is on localhost dnsmasq Jun 03 19:37:14 http://code.google.com/p/n900ipv6/wiki/README Jun 03 19:40:16 and this is only for GSM/3G Jun 03 19:41:33 luke-jr, I already looked at code of both projects, but I decided to copy exising ipv6 binaries from diablo, beucase it is better solution Jun 03 19:51:16 admittedly, I don't know how DNS discovery works on Wifi right now\ Jun 03 19:51:28 but it seems a shame to go back to the drawing board even if that is broken Jun 03 19:51:28 hey all Jun 03 19:51:34 does syncevolution by chance do a single ICS file? Jun 03 19:52:55 hmm. Also, where is it that I can play with things that load after the desktop starts? Jun 03 19:54:48 aha event.d Jun 03 19:54:51 thank you grep -r Jun 03 20:36:22 luke-jr, it seems that on wrt54g* and many others, there are no blobs for wifi, currently Jun 03 20:36:35 interesting Jun 03 20:36:44 "Before the introduction of OpenWrt 8.09, using Linux 2.6.25, and the b43 kernel module, WLAN for many Broadcom-based routers was only available through the proprietary wl.o module that was also only provided for Linux 2.4." Jun 03 20:36:59 it seems that b43 takes care of it - RE'ed probably Jun 03 20:37:12 only for kernel 2.6 AFAIK Jun 03 20:50:50 DocScrutinizer: good evening. Jun 03 20:51:01 may I ask a question? Jun 03 20:52:12 what write speed shoul I expect to achieve when: Jun 03 20:52:30 dd count=2 bs=10M if=/dev/urandom of=/opt/test Jun 03 20:52:53 I am seeing 1.4MB/S Jun 03 20:53:06 is this to be considered normal? Jun 03 20:55:07 yes Jun 03 20:55:23 maybe Jun 03 20:56:11 use /dev/zero and see if it makes a difference Jun 03 20:58:37 yes it does, 7.1MB/s Jun 03 20:58:47 also aiui a bs=10M will result in *massive* ram demand of dd, so other stuff needs to get swapped out... to same storage as /opt Jun 03 20:59:58 interesting Jun 03 21:00:30 10*1MB==50MB/s Jun 03 21:01:55 I pasted a link to an article earlier that showed alligning FS to flash erase block size would show improvements in speed. Jun 03 21:02:14 Is this a thing you know about? Jun 03 21:06:29 http://blogofterje.wordpress.com/2012/01/14/optimizing-fs-on-sd-card/ Jun 03 21:06:40 this chap for example. Jun 03 21:07:03 it is times like thes I wish I had an extra n900. Jun 03 21:08:35 mmmm Jun 03 21:09:02 I could us my swap partition to play with file systems on my live system! Jun 03 21:09:11 brb, xterm Jun 03 21:22:07 oh god... following some link pages from wrt54gl made me run into openmoko, and, sudden of nothing, i know why this project failed miserably Jun 03 21:22:55 666 euro for device with 2,5'' (or so) screen, 800 mhz processor and 512 ram Jun 03 21:23:02 + 69 euro for optional camera module Jun 03 21:23:08 ... Jun 03 21:23:29 I hope that vivaldi and future projects are going to do it *right* way Jun 03 21:23:51 well it was a fully open phone. Jun 03 21:24:05 without a major manufacturer behind it. Jun 03 21:25:34 yes, but price and form?! Jun 03 21:25:56 after all, if they *had* resources to put it the way it was... Jun 03 21:26:11 they could have better specification without actually rising price tag very much Jun 03 21:26:34 +, they zealot'ishly followed rule of being "phone first", which resulted on poor size for a mobile computer... Jun 03 21:26:48 and of course, 0 interest from users of dummy phones (why they should care, anyway?) Jun 03 21:27:05 using so small form/screen + so poor resolution is really masochistic idea Jun 03 21:27:35 i.e. if they actually made so much effort in creating it, it wouldn't hurt to make it actually usable. Then, even price tag could be ignored. Jun 03 21:27:52 it's old, of course it looks bad now Jun 03 21:28:03 GTA04 isn't old Jun 03 21:28:11 http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04 Jun 03 21:28:22 ~ # mount /dev/mmcblk0p3 /media/swap/ Jun 03 21:28:22 mount: mounting /dev/mmcblk0p3 on /media/swap/ failed: Invalid argument Jun 03 21:28:23 just someone decided to re-use old parts like screen etc Jun 03 21:28:29 Y U NO MOUNT???? Jun 03 21:28:39 because linuxtype swap isn't mountable? Jun 03 21:28:56 that is just the name, not the fs Jun 03 21:29:01 so the screen is old Jun 03 21:29:17 mavhc, screen, device size, = form factor. Jun 03 21:29:24 -t ext4 Jun 03 21:29:26 fu gnu Jun 03 21:29:41 vi__, what are You cooking, overall? Jun 03 21:29:45 in general, it's old Jun 03 21:30:08 mavhc, it doesn't sound like being new even when born. Efforts were great, but design decisions... Jun 03 21:30:35 it's awesome that someone could actually design such thing being fully FOSS, and fail at "simple" things for mortals Jun 03 21:30:52 i.e. what would be cost of using some sane screen for gta04, instead of putting it into old case... Jun 03 21:31:03 and/or offer slide-out keyboard like N900 Jun 03 21:31:11 ...after costs for designing board itself Jun 03 21:31:20 this way, it's made for rich masochists. Jun 03 21:31:43 just small, tiny alternations in design would make it for rich, or devoted, but not especiaslly masochists ;) Jun 03 21:32:10 it's like... designing N950, and strippoing it down to keyboard-less N9 with closed frankenstein UI called harmattan :P Jun 03 21:32:31 but even worse, as the latter is done by big company that have much money to lose, and the former was truly nice attempt to make FOSS phone Jun 03 21:34:45 why I do not have mkreiserfs??? Jun 03 21:38:04 because You don't have reiserfs Jun 03 21:38:06 vi__: do you think you'll need reiser on a mmc? Jun 03 21:38:10 on N900, even with power kernel Jun 03 21:38:24 chem|st, reiserfs proved to be quite effective on emmc Jun 03 21:38:28 chem|st: frankly I have no idea. Jun 03 21:38:42 chem|st: but it is my right to try! Jun 03 21:38:46 some claim that even more than journal-less ext4 variant Jun 03 21:38:59 vi__, sure, just compile Your own reiserfs moduels for kernel-power Jun 03 21:39:01 Estel_: your ED image is broken Jun 03 21:39:06 and ask Pali to include them in further versions Jun 03 21:39:11 Anybody got any big suggestions for MWKN this week? Jun 03 21:39:15 how come? ;) What isn't working this time? Jun 03 21:39:31 The only thing between you and publication is me since Jaffa's on vacation and fiferboy is MIA, so now's your big chance! Jun 03 21:39:31 dpkg: unrecoverable fatal error, aborting: syntax error: unknown group 'crontab' in statoverride file Jun 03 21:39:34 E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2) Jun 03 21:39:45 GeneralAntilles, unless You want to cover argues on IRC ;) I think nothing itneresting happened Jun 03 21:40:01 compcache Jun 03 21:40:07 vi__, haven't seen anything like that and other users of Ed image haven't reported it. Jun 03 21:40:17 swappiness 100 is the new swappiness 30 Jun 03 21:40:34 do other users use apt-get? Jun 03 21:40:35 GeneralAntilles, will check recent evets, maybe I've missed something Jun 03 21:40:47 vi__, of course Jun 03 21:41:11 vi__, as You remember re freemangordon, your compcache setup wasn;t working properly even for opera mini in background and something Jun 03 21:41:19 I appreciate work, but it's really just for Your use case Jun 03 21:41:22 maybe someone's else too Jun 03 21:41:35 wouldn't cover it on MWNM just now Jun 03 21:41:38 derp Jun 03 21:41:44 DERP Jun 03 21:42:23 that was for a VERY specific case when attempting to run a 128MB disksize Jun 03 21:43:10 between 16-80MB with swappiness 100 it runs like a champ. Jun 03 21:43:20 interesting Jun 03 21:43:23 I have had it on for about 2 days now. Jun 03 21:43:26 would need further testing, though Jun 03 21:43:35 as still settings used are absurdal, ane we have no idea why it works Jun 03 21:43:42 vi__: What size are you using now, then? Jun 03 21:43:49 do you really want any average joe to turn it on and then scream, that lost his data due to device hang?:P Jun 03 21:43:53 that was for the nuts 128MB Jun 03 21:44:08 average joe can smoke my schlong Jun 03 21:44:11 vi__, it seems i'm quite late at news about it Jun 03 21:45:58 keep all the settings stock except Jun 03 21:46:18 swappiness 100 (which is stock anyway) Jun 03 21:46:39 hm, i would tune them up :P Jun 03 21:46:50 so, why, miracolously, problems dissapeared? Jun 03 21:46:56 AFAIK, it was first thing tried by people Jun 03 21:47:07 echo 0 > /proc/sys/vm/page-cluster Jun 03 21:47:13 and it failed as soon as *real* swapping wa smvoed out of compcache Jun 03 21:47:18 nah, won't work Jun 03 21:47:25 the main problem is that compcache is Your primary swapo Jun 03 21:47:35 that was with a 128MB disksize Jun 03 21:47:35 so after extended usage, You end up with... Jun 03 21:47:45 old, unused data, sits in compcache... Jun 03 21:47:50 i.e. the least used Jun 03 21:47:54 (as it was put there primaly) Jun 03 21:48:03 echo 15 > /proc/sys/vm/dirty_ratio Jun 03 21:48:10 and actively used data, i.e. constantly swaped in and out, ends up in secondary swap, i.e. real one Jun 03 21:48:41 honestly, it seems that ShadowJk is right about it not being possible to work correctly without backing swap and alktering kernel mechanism of handling swap Jun 03 21:48:49 not that I udnerstand fully what it means :P Jun 03 21:49:01 but freemangordon does, so we may be on right - yet long - way Jun 03 21:49:15 well. Jun 03 21:49:16 anyway, they boith claim that it would result in really, really huge speed gain re swapping Jun 03 21:49:19 ... Jun 03 21:49:24 WFM Jun 03 21:49:35 ~wfm Jun 03 21:49:35 i heard wfm is (Wired For Management Baseline) This is an Intel hardware specification that is designed to allow for compliance with easier management of desktop PCs in a networked environment. The specification calls for computers to be compatible with a pre-boot protocol that can be used to update the system or perform other management options. Also, the computer must be compatible with network/desktop management applications.. Works For Me Jun 03 21:50:08 vi__, I agree... Jun 03 21:50:19 but WFM isn't enough to put something into banner of MWN or whatever :P Jun 03 21:50:34 hey, I've got an idea Jun 03 21:50:38 ping freemangordon Jun 03 21:50:42 ping Pali Jun 03 21:50:48 wut for Jun 03 21:50:51 Estel, pong Jun 03 21:51:09 Pali, as we're aware, alck fo more kernel-power developers is one of main problems, yes? hands for doing the job Jun 03 21:51:14 I don't know if it would help much, but Jun 03 21:51:27 what do you think about asking qwazix to prepare banner for kernel-power project Jun 03 21:51:30 just like for CSSU Jun 03 21:51:43 + volounteers would made better wiki page for kernel (adjust it) Jun 03 21:51:51 so it's reasdable for someone not involved in using too Jun 03 21:51:55 then, putting it in front page? Jun 03 21:52:09 maybe not idea that cause sea to divide and allow to pass ;) Jun 03 21:52:29 but, after all, kp and CSSU are main community projects... CSSU got such things, maybe KP should to Jun 03 21:52:51 after all, less IRC-involved and TMO-involved people could get interested. Better chances to find someone with less or more rusty skills in kernel-hacking Jun 03 21:53:03 thoughts, comments? Jun 03 21:56:40 people with rusty skills in kernel hacking we had till KP46... maybe ask conman for some help or others directly Jun 03 21:58:18 chem|st, you think no one tried that? Jun 03 21:58:24 some bad-ass kernel freaks Jun 03 21:58:41 I do not know if someone asked conman... Jun 03 21:58:43 no one had shiny golde skills form beginning. If someone have rusty skills ate beginning, he/she can make them better due to feedback from less rusty people Jun 03 21:58:52 like ingenious Pali and freemangordon Jun 03 21:58:58 afaik, thta is how FOSS projects work Jun 03 21:59:04 vi_ I had to check chanlog to see those on my /ignore are spreading FUD and usual lies again, this time about openmoko though. I honnestly ask everybody to look and study pages like http://projects.goldelico.com/p/gta04-main/page/Community/ (NB it's a company called golden delicious, NUTTIN to do with openmoko inc which basically doesn't exist anymore) Jun 03 21:59:13 bad-ass kernel freaks seem to be very devoted to their projects Jun 03 21:59:23 rusty skills... learn adjectives first maybe Jun 03 21:59:50 chem|st, argumentum ad persona? Jun 03 22:00:27 Estel_: don't start it again! Jun 03 22:00:31 while goldelico is not a big fail but a big story just about to start Jun 03 22:00:41 DocScrutinizer51: o/ Jun 03 22:00:42 we have enough *looks at DocScrutinizer* "I know everything" specialist-bad-ass, that talk more and do less. i'm trying to help as much as I can with finding more working hands for KP. Jun 03 22:01:07 chem|st, start what? I think I don't get You, honestly. Jun 03 22:01:29 mate, get your head cleared of that bullshit... you talk rusty... I talk fresh Jun 03 22:01:43 0_o Jun 03 22:01:54 are You sure You're feeling allright? anyway, it's Your problem Jun 03 22:02:03 * Estel_ heading back to do something productive Jun 03 22:02:28 WTF? Jun 03 22:02:30 im kinda productive! Jun 03 22:02:51 Cor-Ai: good! Jun 03 22:03:37 Estel_: a little less conversation a bit more action pls Jun 03 22:04:10 chem|st, who is saying that? Tlook @ the mirror. anyway, You're pinging me - back from work again - just to write bullshit like that? seriously? Jun 03 22:04:25 GeneralAntilles: I ask for assistance against personal insult in this channel. I'm not going to (ab)use my chanop powers to sort that issue myself Jun 03 22:04:31 again, look @ the mirror and do something productive Yourself Jun 03 22:04:41 * Estel_ is heading *again* to do some productive work Jun 03 22:05:05 thanks tell me when this is over... Jun 03 22:05:21 Gentlemen Jun 03 22:05:24 Shut the hell up. Jun 03 22:05:28 lol Jun 03 22:05:38 I'm busy. Jun 03 22:06:00 Unless you want an editorial in MWKN about the whiny children inhabiting #maemo, then cut it. :P Jun 03 22:07:32 GeneralAntilles, it seems that gcc-4.6 and Fremantle may be thing You would like to write about Jun 03 22:07:40 Personal attacks are unproductive and, considering there's nobody here who isn't invested in the community, unwarranted. Jun 03 22:07:52 last week, gcc-4.6 appeared in -devel repos Jun 03 22:08:06 Estel_, anybody got a thread or blog or something on it? Jun 03 22:08:18 thus, last mielstone in providing it for fremantle was achieved, and now bug hunting season opened Jun 03 22:08:21 of course, providing links: Jun 03 22:08:40 development thread on TMO (whole saga from beginning to current date): Jun 03 22:08:42 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81861 Jun 03 22:08:49 people responsible: Jun 03 22:08:56 AapoRantalainen Jun 03 22:09:11 and to some extent,: Jun 03 22:09:12 marmistrz Jun 03 22:09:15 * merlin1991 never heard that beofre Jun 03 22:09:24 s/that beofre/that name before/ Jun 03 22:09:25 and szopin Jun 03 22:09:56 AapoRantalainen is unknown to You, merlin1991 ? 0_o nothing bad, I'm just surprised Jun 03 22:10:07 freemangordon and merlin are, parallely, working on it for CSSU, yep? Jun 03 22:10:22 here I'm quite old on info, so merlin1991 can provide more valuable informations, probably Jun 03 22:10:29 freemangordon did use gcc 4.6 in order to get around thumb problems Jun 03 22:10:34 I just tried to package some stuff Jun 03 22:10:36 ah, I see. Jun 03 22:10:57 well, people installing gcc-4.6 from repos haven't run into preoblems, as for yesterday Jun 03 22:11:02 I haven't been on TMO yet today Jun 03 22:11:08 everything seemed to work fine Jun 03 22:11:11 GeneralAntilles: GeneralAntilles openmediaplayer on the n900 is officially kicking asses. Jun 03 22:11:27 that might be newsworthy. Jun 03 22:11:38 vi__, true, but what to write? it was covered some time ago Jun 03 22:11:43 vi__, link? Jun 03 22:11:48 if they would include it into CSSU, it would be something for a news :P Jun 03 22:12:09 Mmm, we've already covered it. Jun 03 22:12:09 Estel_: it is not ready for that yet. Jun 03 22:12:11 * Estel_ is using OpenMediaPlayer for ages and would never ever go back to stock Jun 03 22:12:30 it needs 1 more thing. Jun 03 22:12:41 GeneralAntilles, when it will be ready for CSSU-rewrites or hoever this shiny repo is called, it will be good to write about it again Jun 03 22:12:48 vi__, hm? Jun 03 22:13:04 it needs to be able to open playlists so you can open web streams. Jun 03 22:13:20 just like stock MP Jun 03 22:13:53 It does NOT need a software equaliser though. Jun 03 22:14:17 simple fact, it's not going to have an qualiser Jun 03 22:14:24 w00t Jun 03 22:14:39 GeneralAntilles, GeneralAntilles, I don't know if it isn't too niche, but serious problem have been discovere din SmsCON, tool aimed to help retrieving lost/stolen N900 Jun 03 22:14:40 no hook to add it to mafw, and it uses mafw Jun 03 22:15:03 streamer has no plugin? Jun 03 22:15:04 Estel_, thread? Jun 03 22:15:08 GeneralAntilles, discussion start here: Jun 03 22:15:09 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1215664&postcount=1163 Jun 03 22:15:20 and all post after this are about it Jun 03 22:15:27 Estel_: what is wromg with it? Jun 03 22:15:35 (basically, SMSCON was always thought to play nicely with devices using auto-lock code, it turned out that it's not) Jun 03 22:15:48 well, if You have auto lock code, SMSCON won't work, at all ;) Jun 03 22:15:59 function to disable lock code upon discovering unauthorised sim doesn't workj Jun 03 22:16:12 and no way to properly load smscon before lock code promt @ boot Jun 03 22:16:39 yablacky, a trully skilled hacker who is currently maintaining smscon backend is investigating, with community, a ways to overcome it Jun 03 22:16:55 ... Jun 03 22:16:59 wtf not. Jun 03 22:17:17 ...because now You have 2 options - either use smscon and *no* auto lock code (= truecrypt partitions with private data, mounted all the time, aren't protected - lock code forced to reboot device at least last, which made them unmount itself) Jun 03 22:17:18 just run it before X Jun 03 22:17:26 vi__, check thread, yablacky tried it Jun 03 22:17:31 and some parts haven't worked properly Jun 03 22:17:36 i.e. detecting sim card Jun 03 22:17:45 so no way for smscon to determine if authorised or not sim card is present Jun 03 22:17:48 = no "stolen" mode Jun 03 22:17:57 so it don't know if it should disable lock code Jun 03 22:18:39 ugh, too much for me to think about Jun 03 22:18:43 GeneralAntilles, coding competition is thinking about huge change of submissions form: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83761&page=19 Jun 03 22:19:03 all former CC applications were diversed amongst many categories Jun 03 22:19:19 now, they're thinking about dropping categories at all, and throwing every participating program into one basket Jun 03 22:19:26 dat rofl Jun 03 22:19:29 also, they're thinking about how to deal with multiplatform properly Jun 03 22:19:52 i.e how to properly recognize things that work on Fremantle, Mer, and Harmattan Jun 03 22:19:59 without rewarding androids and so goes on Jun 03 22:21:22 GeneralAntilles, during last week, another 2 nokia sponsored branches of device program started Jun 03 22:21:24 QT5: Jun 03 22:21:26 will CC2012 be such a type 'A' kluster fuck as last years? Jun 03 22:21:26 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83761&page=19 Jun 03 22:21:52 ...and Nokia Store: Jun 03 22:21:53 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84589 Jun 03 22:22:05 hm seems that all the fun with gcc 4.6 in the repos foobared apt-get Jun 03 22:22:15 so, total of 3/4 branches are running already, CC is last thing waiting for start Jun 03 22:22:24 merlin1991, hm? Jun 03 22:22:28 vi__, I've no idea Jun 03 22:22:44 frankly, I don't even know what You mean by type 'A' kluster fuck :P Jun 03 22:22:51 I'll need another 10 min but I'm pretty sure the problem lies with extras-devel Jun 03 22:23:02 yes, it lies there Jun 03 22:23:09 can confirm disabling it get rid of warning Jun 03 22:23:14 if You're talking about it Jun 03 22:24:46 GeneralAntilles, after all, it seems that much happened during last week :P need more, or You've already full page? Jun 03 22:25:30 I'll cover anything relevant. Jun 03 22:25:34 GeneralAntilles, I don't know if it's interesting, but few geeks are investigating possibility of putting 6000 mAh battery into N900 with mugen-sized backcover Jun 03 22:25:45 including me, so it's kinda shameless self advert Jun 03 22:26:51 Link? Jun 03 22:26:53 Also: thanks. Jun 03 22:26:54 GeneralAntilles, if we're talking about self-adverts - IDK if You've covered this: Jun 03 22:26:55 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83928 Jun 03 22:27:01 no problem, my pleasure Jun 03 22:27:11 battery thing is related to that Jun 03 22:27:20 as it turned out, that no way without doing custom body Jun 03 22:27:51 (it's a project of custom body for N900, with external antennas connectors, tripod mounting point, and things like that) Jun 03 22:27:59 last diea is to use 2x 18650 cells Jun 03 22:28:07 special socket for them in body replacement Jun 03 22:28:13 = thickness would be roughly like mugen cover Jun 03 22:28:34 but, with 6000 mAh capacity, instead of 2400 offered by mugen, and 3000 via usage of dual scuds Jun 03 22:28:59 + 18650's are cheap, widely available, and won't dissapear like batteries for certain phone models Jun 03 22:29:34 GeneralAntilles, honestly, one of my Councilor's dieas, that I haven't yet told about, was to work more closely with MWKN Jun 03 22:29:42 that's why I was asking extensively about it lately Jun 03 22:29:59 in case of need to trim down Maemo.org interface, it could replace news Jun 03 22:30:15 News is pretty cheap on maemo.org Jun 03 22:30:30 So it's unlikely something that would need to be trimmed for cost-cutting reasons. Jun 03 22:31:11 * Estel_ nods Jun 03 22:31:26 can't remember now, but someone suggested that, when, for long period of time Jun 03 22:31:34 90% of content wasn't maemo related Jun 03 22:31:43 due to many blogs being connected with it and not following rule of Maemo tags Jun 03 22:31:56 after all, many people started to use thumb down feature, and it returned back to normal Jun 03 22:32:27 still, MWKN provide much more rellevant info, most of the times, unless it's talking about Harmattan only ;) but, anyway, it's not editors fault, that no one send Maemo's info Jun 03 22:33:23 closer cooperation + popularizing info about how to submit interesting things could make it covering even more, after all, MANY, *many* things are going on in Maemo community Jun 03 22:34:34 GeneralAntilles, last week Ubuntu 12.04 started to work reliably on N900, thanks to freemangordon and his way to enable erratum fixes for N900's SoC Jun 03 22:34:35 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82819 Jun 03 22:34:56 (this thread is about development of it since beginning, but, latets pages are about it) Jun 03 22:35:22 generally, it uses modified nemo kernel, + reportedly, work blazing fast if You get rid of Unity and use things lixe LXDe, much faster than debian chroot Jun 03 22:37:23 GeneralAntilles, Pali released updated version of bootmenu Jun 03 22:37:25 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74720&page=5 Jun 03 22:37:46 fixes ages-old problems with it being not-compatible with U-Boot Jun 03 22:38:09 also, development of U-boot for Maemo is quite fats last week, but I don't have link handy, will try to find Jun 03 22:38:18 s/Maemo/N900/ Jun 03 22:38:18 Estel_ meant: also, development of U-boot for N900 is quite fats last week, but I don't have link handy, will try to find Jun 03 22:38:24 Pali's changes got upstreamed, many times Jun 03 22:39:19 GeneralAntilles, ModRana - one of most popular navigational tool for Maemo started re-wriote into QML - current builds include both old GUI and new experimental one, with limited funcionality Jun 03 22:39:20 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=58861&page=106 Jun 03 22:40:25 GeneralAntilles, (self advert mode on again) ereswap, tools that helps to easy fighting swap-fragmentation for end-user was released: Jun 03 22:40:26 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84413 Jun 03 22:42:11 GeneralAntilles, Pali, in process of upstreaming U-boot changes and introducing official support for N900 in U-boot mainstream, started to collect atag dumps from N900's with different revisions: Jun 03 22:42:11 Damn, and I thought this was going to be a light issue! Jun 03 22:42:12 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84560 Jun 03 22:42:17 :D Jun 03 22:42:55 ...but, in the process, it turned out that NOLO is sending different atags for sdame revisions types, sometimes, and no one have idea how it determines what is needed to be send. As a result... Jun 03 22:43:03 reverse-engineering NOLO started again Jun 03 22:44:05 GeneralAntilles, if You need threads worth talking, You can always ask me :P Though You may gonna start to hate it, as, in fact, it was really one of lightier weeks Jun 03 22:44:31 I'm not sure if You would like to cover all interesting things during more heavy weeks... at least, not all alone, when Jaffa is out :P Jun 03 22:44:53 and fiferboy Jun 03 22:44:55 Damn him. Jun 03 22:45:07 ~fiferboy Jun 03 22:45:15 NFc wh he is/was Jun 03 22:45:21 s/wh/who/ Jun 03 22:45:22 Estel_ meant: NFc who he is/was Jun 03 22:45:42 I suppoose that 3rd editor of MWKN who is missing in action ;) Jun 03 22:46:00 Another of the old guard Jun 03 22:46:05 and, yes, MIA editor. Jun 03 22:47:36 Well, I think it's all for now, going to prepare some kind of dinner. Happy covering! Jun 03 22:47:52 Thanks, later. Jun 03 22:49:57 Estel_: any chance you can tell me how important/relevant documenting Gentoo/N900 is, for getting a N950/N9? <.< Jun 03 22:50:34 luke-jr, haha, I saw Your comment. Honestly, i enjoyed fact that You were talking with me wabout it without knowing that i'm Councilor ;) Jun 03 22:50:42 I think I need to get incognito alias Jun 03 22:50:53 lol Jun 03 22:50:54 heh Jun 03 22:51:02 It's a facilitator role. <_< Jun 03 22:51:10 GeneralAntilles, just joking Jun 03 22:51:44 ewwell, i facilitated efforts to document it, but he just said that hes not interested :P Jun 03 22:51:55 seriously though Jun 03 22:52:08 luke-jr, very, *very* important, as for now, this project is hardly existing in Community minds Jun 03 22:52:21 I know that something like that exist, few other people too Jun 03 22:52:25 maybe 2 or 3 people saw it Jun 03 22:52:33 noo cooperartion with other devs Jun 03 22:52:38 due to lack of documenting ;) Jun 03 22:52:50 so NFC what You've achieved and how, and what is missing and worth pursuit Jun 03 22:53:09 but, i think, it's little too late, honestly, if we're talking about N9/N950 Jun 03 22:53:15 if you're going to be ooportunistic :P Jun 03 22:53:31 s/ooportunistic/opportunistic/ Jun 03 22:53:33 Estel_ meant: if you're going to be opportunistic :P Jun 03 22:53:49 anywya, it's *very* worth doing anyway, for project's sake itself Jun 03 22:54:05 and again, from your ooportunistic point of view, no one said it's last device program ever Jun 03 22:54:27 few weeks ago, no one would suspect current program happenijng, so... Jun 03 22:55:04 What program is this? Jun 03 23:18:15 robbiethe1st: though I'm missing quite some stuff here, I suspect you're asking about community award program, something you *should* throw your hat in. after all iirc you have a broken N900 and I know who gave awesome backupmenu to us. You should receive a device, and maybe can 'swap' it - via fleabay - for one or two N900 ;-) Jun 03 23:18:51 Fair enough; link? Jun 03 23:18:59 see community ML Jun 03 23:20:02 or ask council Jun 03 23:20:54 I guess I'm /way/ out of the loop; I have no clue what the community ML is, nor anything about what's going on. Sorry. :\ Jun 03 23:21:31 Last I heard, the council was a bunch of people who didn't do a whole lot except apologise for nokia not open-sourcing the bits we wanted... Jun 03 23:21:40 well, community ML is to be found e.g. there: https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community Jun 03 23:22:18 Oh Jun 03 23:22:20 http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2012-June/ Jun 03 23:22:26 UGh Jun 03 23:22:33 The Nokia apologist line. Jun 03 23:22:37 That shit needs to die. Jun 03 23:22:46 hmm? Jun 03 23:24:14 ... Uh? http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2012-June/005404.html Jun 03 23:24:22 Someone's sure full of himself Jun 03 23:24:36 (quoted comment) Jun 03 23:30:11 So, erm, where's the original post explaining the 'community awards'? Jun 03 23:31:03 robbiethe1st: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84533 Jun 03 23:31:03 robbiethe1st, http://wiki.maemo.org/Summer%2712_Device_Program Jun 03 23:31:18 thanks Jun 03 23:33:19 hey robbiethe1st :) Jun 03 23:33:23 hi Jun 03 23:34:17 I also think You should submit. While You may not be eprfect example of 100% in-loop continous contribution to community, You haven't left it, and partial absence, afaik, it's due l;ack of time... Jun 03 23:34:22 i.e. real life things Jun 03 23:34:40 do I recall correctly, that You're still - although slowly - working on backupmenu? Jun 03 23:35:09 I've suggested some thing few days ago in it's thread, like separating optFS backup from /home/* Jun 03 23:35:09 Sort of, yeah. I really need to sit down and actually churn out some stuff Jun 03 23:35:24 I suppoose You haven't had time to check it yet ;) Jun 03 23:35:49 what do You think about - due to framebuffer availability in KP for some time - idea of rewriting it, to drop text2screen completely? Jun 03 23:36:03 (i.e. transfering to "proper" CLI using framebuffer) Jun 03 23:36:10 after all, those both are text outputs Jun 03 23:36:27 I thought about that, but why? would it actually give any advantage? Jun 03 23:36:32 of course it's quite big change, and no one suppose it would take a day or two to finish :P Jun 03 23:36:35 yea Jun 03 23:36:41 Which is? Jun 03 23:36:42 using root console makes text2screen teared Jun 03 23:36:48 sometime, to the point of being unusable Jun 03 23:37:01 also, it makes it harder for other people to contribute to backupmenu development Jun 03 23:37:21 Yes, that it does; you have to reboot after using it. Problem is I can't unload the FB module after I'm done with it Jun 03 23:37:26 anyway, that's the common view on this - mix with text2screen makes code much harder to follow/adjust (not my opinion, i'm noob here) Jun 03 23:37:45 robbiethe1st, the problem is that most power users now modprobe fbcon as first think in preinit Jun 03 23:37:51 so they have framebuffer enabled anyway Jun 03 23:38:02 unloading it form within backupmenu would be a problem as per se Jun 03 23:38:37 i.e we have full scrolling text from - almost- very beginning, same for recoversy console out of backupmenu (preinit) - but, backupmenu is great tool as it eases doing things Jun 03 23:38:52 theoretically, same may be achieved by recovery console and bunch of scripts cp'ed to tmp Jun 03 23:39:00 but, backupmenu is much more user friendly Jun 03 23:39:43 I'm quite sure dropping text2screen would make it easier for other people to contribute = You would see that it's nice when other people are coding things You haven't time for :) Jun 03 23:39:56 also, it would provide even more modularity Jun 03 23:40:19 I'm pretty sure, that, at some point, it would be included in kernel-power on CSSU as default tool Jun 03 23:40:31 like clockworkorangeMOd in android and cyanogenmod Jun 03 23:40:46 Well, the only problem there is that A, I don't know about using colors and B, about anything but adding new lines Jun 03 23:40:57 i.e. everyone using kp or cssu would have it = no more people that get to know about backupmenu only, when they encounter problems requiring reflash Jun 03 23:40:59 With t2s, I can add text anywhere on the screen. Jun 03 23:41:17 are collors necessary? Jun 03 23:41:30 and about new lines, I'm sure someone would explain it here or on TMO Jun 03 23:42:08 I think more "heated" thing for now is to separate /home/* from /opt backup, so during backup, one cna backup everything or any mix of 3 components Jun 03 23:42:23 for now, for people having, lets say, preenv games in /home/games, optfs backups many times exceed 4 GB Jun 03 23:42:27 = cannot be saved to MyDocs Jun 03 23:42:32 or any vfat Jun 03 23:42:43 But wait, /home/ is 2GB partiton... Jun 03 23:42:49 IIRC, possibility to save into other filesystems was also pending request Jun 03 23:42:49 Unless you resize it, etc. Jun 03 23:43:03 home is 2GB partition only in new N900 bought from Nokia, which doesn't happen lately:P Jun 03 23:43:07 robbiethe1st: I think vi_'s post was a nice parody, and I liked it very much Jun 03 23:43:12 nowadays, 90% of users repartition Jun 03 23:43:24 90% of the 1%, more like... Jun 03 23:43:59 First thing I need to do is get Boot Menu/BM compatibility working on my N900 Jun 03 23:44:09 I haven't added it because /it doesn't f***ing work/ for me. Jun 03 23:45:06 Pali released new verison of bootmenu Jun 03 23:45:14 also, he pointed out, that backupmenu is doing something wron re boot menu Jun 03 23:45:20 check backupmenu thread, last poage, please Jun 03 23:45:36 and sorry for typos, writing using one hand Jun 03 23:45:47 another one is busy... no, not b ywhat You think it is - I'm cooking dinner Jun 03 23:45:53 frying thing Jun 03 23:46:08 No, I mean... I did that specifically because I couldn't get boot menu to work the /right/ way Jun 03 23:48:02 yes, but bootmenu was updated Jun 03 23:49:20 Going to try again Jun 03 23:54:55 robbiethe1st: well, bootmenu was designed in a way basically incompatible with backupmenu class of "apps". So unless bootmenu will be augmented, I don't see a proper way to make both coexist. I looked into it long time ago Jun 03 23:55:28 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1216832&postcount=1053 won't work? Jun 03 23:55:46 * GeneralAntilles 2nd glass of wine. Jun 03 23:55:50 MWKN is getting craaazyy Jun 03 23:57:34 what's mwkn? Jun 03 23:57:49 robbiethe1st: iirc bootmenu is iterating across all the "plugin" scripts and expects each is returning some env values set to text of a menu that bootmenu displays then. An "app" like BM that basoically never returns wouldn't fit in Jun 03 23:57:52 maemo weekly news? Jun 03 23:58:03 http://mwkn.net Jun 03 23:58:08 Yeah/ See post Jun 03 23:58:59 hmm, this might actually work Jun 03 23:59:17 and after BM invokation you have to reboot anyway Jun 03 23:59:19 Huh, for the first time, it worked! Jun 03 23:59:42 I looked into it back when, to find a way out of BM and into normal linux bootup Jun 03 23:59:50 which wasn't possible Jun 04 00:00:08 what's so crazy about it? Jun 04 00:00:26 the declaration that we're all gonna die? Jun 04 00:00:35 Oh, I'm sure it's "possible"; if you can chroot from a init ramdisk image into the real os, you ought to be able to do the same for BMs ramdisk Jun 04 00:00:49 orangey, effectively I'm drunkblogging with no other editors to keep me in line. Jun 04 00:00:58 GeneralAntilles: hahahah ; ) Jun 04 00:01:05 GeneralAntilles: are you the writer of mwkn? Jun 04 00:01:15 one of them Jun 04 00:01:18 Not /the/, that's our Glorious Leader Jaffa. Jun 04 00:01:22 But one of a trio. Jun 04 00:04:07 GeneralAntilles: and we appreciate that so much, I actually have to thank you (and the other 2 guys) for your sustainable work there, and I honestly hope absolutely nothing will change wrt mwkn and the editors involved Jun 04 00:04:16 Nothing. Jun 04 00:04:17 Ever. Jun 04 00:04:30 We're not even getting Tim's new theme, 'cause I'm too lazy to integrate it. Jun 04 00:04:36 STASIS Jun 04 00:04:41 DocScrutinizer, so, it seems evkey moved from /usr/sbin to /usr/bin... Jun 04 00:04:41 :-D Jun 04 00:04:44 what's the deal? Jun 04 00:04:56 robbiethe1st: NFC Jun 04 00:05:01 ? Jun 04 00:05:07 no idea Jun 04 00:05:19 no faintest clue Jun 04 00:05:50 who shpould do that move, and when? Jun 04 00:06:34 Dunno, but one day a while back, BM stopped booting due to evkey being missing Jun 04 00:06:43 I thought I lost a file, copied it over from a backup Jun 04 00:06:43 it might actually be the better place for evkey, but I doubt Nokia would ship an update to do that mv Jun 04 00:07:01 but it seems that others have the same deal Jun 04 00:08:19 hmm, may I suggest you set up a path in your BM script, and call evkey unqualified? not the RIGHT WAY[TM] but maybe for this one instance the most pragmatic one Jun 04 00:10:43 how about: Jun 04 00:10:43 if ! `cp /usr/bin/evkey /tmp/disk/usr/sbin/`; then cp /usr/sbin/evkey /tmp/disk/usr/sbin/; fi Jun 04 00:11:00 If it fails to copy from /usr/bin, then copy from /usr/sbin? Jun 04 00:11:19 ... I think Jun 04 00:13:29 I wouldn't copy anything, not even to tmp Jun 04 00:13:45 aah, or are you doing that anyway already? Jun 04 00:13:50 Yeah. Jun 04 00:13:54 It's copying to a ramdisk Jun 04 00:13:57 so yep, that's the way Jun 04 00:14:16 Cause, you know, formatting your rootfs when /running/ off it is not a good idea Jun 04 00:15:03 sure Jun 04 00:15:05 :-) Jun 04 00:16:36 cp /usr/*bin/evkey /tmp/disk/user/sbin/ Jun 04 00:17:06 one-char-fix ;-) Jun 04 00:17:24 I *love* those one-char fixes Jun 04 00:17:57 s/user/usr/ Jun 04 00:21:01 Just curious, but does the N900 have the modules to use NTFS partitions? Jun 04 00:21:30 or cp $(find /bin /sbin /usr/bin /usr/sbin -name evkey) /tmp/disk/usr/sbin/ Jun 04 00:22:39 robbiethe1st: (NTFS) I seem to recall somebody built those kernel modules for diablo usb hostmode Jun 04 00:23:04 Alternately, isn't there a way to have tar split archives based on size? Jun 04 00:23:17 maybe nowadays we got better versions, mor mainline'ish Jun 04 00:23:30 yep, there is Jun 04 00:23:44 though probably not in crippled messybox tar Jun 04 00:23:57 That's not a problem; I'm already requiring gnu-tar Jun 04 00:24:10 CONFIG_NTFS=m Jun 04 00:24:24 kernel-power, at least has it Jun 04 00:24:45 *CONFIG_NTFS_FS=m Jun 04 00:25:13 -M multivolume Jun 04 00:25:35 Hurrian: thanks :-D Jun 04 00:26:06 -L, --tape-length=NUMBER Jun 04 00:26:07 change tape after writing NUMBER x 1024 bytes Jun 04 00:27:10 -F, --info-script=NAME, --new-volume-script=NAME Jun 04 00:27:12 run script at end of each tape (implies -M) Jun 04 00:27:55 Looks possible Jun 04 00:30:10 yep Jun 04 00:30:30 good approach to deal with 2GB limit of VFAT Jun 04 00:35:03 robbiethe1st, don't touch evkey Jun 04 00:35:16 moving it to /usr/bin was mistake Jun 04 00:35:19 Pali fixed it already Jun 04 00:35:26 in current version available form repos Jun 04 00:35:31 its where it was again Jun 04 00:35:52 afaik, on bootmenu thread, it's mentioned in last page ;) Jun 04 00:36:42 I fixed it the 'best' way, allowing either way to work Jun 04 00:37:01 nice Jun 04 00:37:07 but for sure it won't be in /usr/bin again Jun 04 00:37:26 Also finally got Bootmenu to work on my machine, so I was able to add a 'correct' bootmenu-module to backupmenu Jun 04 00:37:30 robbiethe1st, btw, aren't You one who actually got N950 frome xtended dev program last year? Jun 04 00:37:36 Yeah. Jun 04 00:38:00 so remembe,r that You can participate in CA, but only for N9 Jun 04 00:38:05 I can't say I've ended up using it for much more than an alarm clock, to be honest. Jun 04 00:38:10 ;) Jun 04 00:38:24 could pass it to another dev Jun 04 00:38:40 I don't know if I'm allowed, to be honest. Jun 04 00:38:41 if You're not using it, it';s a problem for Yuo - in case of bein stolen or whatsnot Jun 04 00:38:49 need to dela with Nokia and lend agreement Jun 04 00:38:57 You're not only allowe,d but also supposed :D Jun 04 00:39:03 robbiethe1st, you can pass it to whomever you want. Jun 04 00:39:21 Isn't there something about that in the NDA I signed? Jun 04 00:39:25 don't get it like I'm trying to "rob" You from N950 - just it seems like a shame that it's taking dust Jun 04 00:39:28 For the N950 Jun 04 00:39:31 You can't sell it Jun 04 00:40:00 Estel_, yeah, I understand. Not that at all. Jun 04 00:40:35 It's a cool device, and /maby/ if pali, etc. were able to get bootmenu on it I could get Backupmenu, but for now... it's basically an alarm clock/camera/phone for me Jun 04 00:40:47 (phone because my current N900 has a broken modem) Jun 04 00:40:54 uh Jun 04 00:41:23 if, in any case, You would be in need of N900 in ideal condition and USB port soldered down (reinforced), i happen to have them cheaply from time to time Jun 04 00:41:25 I might give it to another real dev, but only if I could be assured that Nokia wouldn't come after me. Jun 04 00:41:30 like 180 euro + shipping costs Jun 04 00:41:40 I may, in a few months. Jun 04 00:41:53 robbiethe1st, I can ask about it in mailing list Jun 04 00:41:55 (passing) Jun 04 00:42:00 Feel free. Jun 04 00:42:02 qgil is there,m and he is our Nokia contact Jun 04 00:42:17 in fact, it's question rather about how to do it right way Jun 04 00:42:36 cause I'm 1100% sure that You're not only encouraged, but also supposed to pass it, if not usinng for dev Jun 04 00:42:43 I.e. it's "normal" wya of dealing with them Jun 04 00:42:53 some people already did that (passed further) Jun 04 00:42:55 Other thing is, you wouldn't know anyone able to actually /fix/ a N900's usb port would you? My old one's at the point you'd have to solder to some small points further in, not just resolder the pads Jun 04 00:43:29 robbiethe1st, yea, i know, it's me :D but I must wanr You, that it's not veyr chepa to do properly Jun 04 00:43:36 Like how much? Jun 04 00:43:40 I've fixed a dozen or so N900 for people @ maemo.org Jun 04 00:43:47 let me get into details first ok? Jun 04 00:43:51 You got pads destroyed Jun 04 00:43:55 Yes. Jun 04 00:44:17 soldering to components later involve removing quite important part of shielding +, more importantly, is risky Jun 04 00:44:25 There's an image(perhaps by you) showing two resistors inside of one of the metal cans you'd have to solder to. Jun 04 00:44:28 i.e. destroying components that You try to solder to Jun 04 00:44:33 proper way is to use apds beneath battery Jun 04 00:44:36 pads* Jun 04 00:44:43 yea, i know Jun 04 00:44:51 generally it isn't bad way Jun 04 00:44:53 don't they have no ESD protection? Jun 04 00:45:04 no, it was FUd, courtesy of Doc Jun 04 00:45:11 they lack common mode choke only Jun 04 00:45:22 which is part of elegant design, although, not required in any real life situation Jun 04 00:45:29 unless you work in core of nuclear reactor Jun 04 00:45:37 actually, common mdoe choke limit USB 2.0 speeds a bit Jun 04 00:45:48 more problematic is +5V, where it really lacks fuse etc Jun 04 00:46:00 I think my 5V is intact... Jun 04 00:46:06 but it is more sensible to solder them, as it don't require cutting so much ESD shielding Jun 04 00:46:08 ah Jun 04 00:46:10 even better Jun 04 00:46:13 then Jun 04 00:46:16 ground is plenty ;) Jun 04 00:46:31 it's something like 50 euro + shipping costs both way Jun 04 00:46:55 honestly, i'm doing it because I enjoy bringing N90's to life - considering ammount of hours needed to work on it - ultra mini things - i'm working like chinese slave :P Jun 04 00:47:06 (considering fee/per hour) Jun 04 00:47:09 Well, soldering to the pads under the battery is something I may even be able to do. Soldering to the components is far harder, and I can't do it. Jun 04 00:47:11 still, it's too much expensive for most people Jun 04 00:47:19 yea Jun 04 00:47:20 but Jun 04 00:47:24 if You have 5V intact Jun 04 00:47:33 You can solder to it, and ground +_ USB data from beneath battery Jun 04 00:47:40 this way You wouldn't need to solder to components at all Jun 04 00:47:45 Actually, this brings up an interesting problem Jun 04 00:48:35 I've got a temp-controlled 60W iron. With a fine-tipped end on it, whenever I'd try to solder a ground wire/ground contact, my solder would instantly solidify and my tip would stick Jun 04 00:48:45 (likely because of all the thermal mass?) Jun 04 00:48:50 how do you handle that? Jun 04 00:49:26 I use gas-powered iron, that can handle even soldering pipes together :P Jun 04 00:49:34 (despite small size) Jun 04 00:49:41 but I think Your problem is with tip Jun 04 00:49:44 Yeah Jun 04 00:49:47 is it self-made one? Jun 04 00:49:49 Nope Jun 04 00:49:54 60W sounds likme enough Jun 04 00:50:17 Chinese-made, likely copper with a silver (tin?) coating Jun 04 00:50:21 N900 doesn't have so much thermal mass, unless soldering iron is passing heat to end of tip too slowly Jun 04 00:50:37 You mean ground wire/ground contatc in N900, right? Jun 04 00:50:42 not mains power line?:D Jun 04 00:50:45 Yeah. the ground pad Jun 04 00:51:08 Well, with a bigger tip, I have no trouble soldering 12ga wire Jun 04 00:51:13 hm, in worst case, ground pad beneath battery would need just keeping soldering iron next to it a little longer Jun 04 00:51:34 hm, soldering apds beneath battery are quite big Jun 04 00:51:40 maybe You're using too smal tip? Jun 04 00:51:51 What size tip do you use? Jun 04 00:51:55 or Your soldering iron isn't in fact 60w but only pretends to be Jun 04 00:52:10 I got many self-made tips form cooper and other materials... Jun 04 00:52:23 What diameter, then? Or do you have a picture? Jun 04 00:52:25 for pads beneath batteyr I use regular one with *flat* ending Jun 04 00:52:42 I'm looking at the - pad on the USB port Jun 04 00:52:46 Soldering the N900? Jun 04 00:52:46 from actual USb pad - this micro one - I use, ofcourse, sharp smallest tip Jun 04 00:52:50 60W sounds like way too much. Jun 04 00:52:59 GeneralAntilles, temp controlled Jun 04 00:53:08 GeneralAntilles, yea, but when robbiethe1st try to solder to ground, his soldering iron sodlers itself to N900 Jun 04 00:53:17 so either thermal transfer is too slow in soldering iron -> tip Jun 04 00:53:24 Which is definitely the problem Jun 04 00:53:25 or soldering iron is 30W in reality, or so Jun 04 00:53:35 so turn temp control to max? Jun 04 00:53:45 That could work Jun 04 00:53:57 for soldering ground, of course Jun 04 00:54:28 unless it's working station with *real* temp control, those things with rolling resistor for temp control bundled in aren't very helpful Jun 04 00:54:39 fucking chanlog, Estel_ insulting me and sprwading lies once more. Now I'm fed up with it. No mister estel, missing ESD on test points under battersy is NO FUD, you *** Jun 04 00:54:39 could help if You're soldering really delicate micro thing Jun 04 00:54:54 yes, it is FUD, we've talked about it before. Jun 04 00:55:03 D= and D- lacks *only* common mode choke Jun 04 00:55:07 refer to schematics Jun 04 00:55:15 and as I've said, +5V is lacking protection indeed Jun 04 00:55:32 BTW, funny, You're ignoring me, yet reading every bit of line related to You? sounds cheap Jun 04 00:55:50 Well, the real question is whether the d+ and d- have continuity between the ones by the battery and the ones on the USB port? Jun 04 00:56:04 maybe I shall start ignoring You, for the change? although, I don't want to, as You're saying many really interesting things, because You're knowledgeable one... Jun 04 00:56:10 If so, you'll get your protection by "backfeeding" as it were... Jun 04 00:56:16 ...unless you go into zealot mode. Whatr's Your problem with me, really? Jun 04 00:56:33 robbiethe1st, of course, they're same usb port Jun 04 00:56:40 don't even think about using them as 2 different ports Jun 04 00:56:44 robbiethe1st: honestly I'd consider carefully to take advice from somebody who outright insults experts about their qualified statements regarding easy to tread schematics, and claims it's just "FUD" Jun 04 00:57:10 robbiethe1st: nope, that's not how ESD protection works Jun 04 00:57:16 of course, I also encourage You to check schematics before soldering - instead of following advices from random guy on irc ;) Jun 04 00:57:20 I hope it concludes this Jun 04 00:57:29 Don't you have diodes between the line and ground for ESD protection? Jun 04 00:57:55 Isn't that what ESD protection basically /is/? Jun 04 00:58:02 clamping diodes? Jun 04 00:58:21 yes, at the point where trace *enters* protected area, it's clamped by tranzorbs. Then there are other components on the way til it reaches chip Jun 04 00:58:24 robbiethe1st, clarification of ESd protection being present on under-battery-pads iwas done by blue_led Jun 04 00:58:43 without it, it would be dangerous to connect anything to pads beneath battery even in lab Jun 04 00:59:07 and npads beneath battery are *not* connected directly to chip Jun 04 00:59:14 so odds are your ESD surge reaches chip literally before it even propagates to tranzorbs Jun 04 00:59:33 won't have link now, so take it with grain of salt, but I'm perfectly sure, that DocScrutinizer was stating somewhere on TMO that they're connected directly to chip, which is false Jun 04 00:59:46 Check the schematics? Jun 04 00:59:57 + actual implementation Jun 04 01:00:14 Anyone got a trace layout for the N900? Jun 04 01:00:24 DocScrutinizer should have some of those Jun 04 01:00:33 Especially as there was a chineese company selling bare boards a while back? Jun 04 01:00:36 including hi res pictures of motherboard including and not elements Jun 04 01:00:43 look at my server, robbiethe1st. there you get best approach to layout Jun 04 01:00:54 Link, please? Jun 04 01:00:58 scan of such bare board Jun 04 01:01:08 maemo.cloud-7.de Jun 04 01:01:08 still, from practice, it *works* as it should, and I';ve *0* reports of any problems, ecven while devices are used in far from "controlled" enviromnent Jun 04 01:01:21 galery, or N900-exploded-view or sth Jun 04 01:01:45 That may be the most important thing; in reality, things work slightly different than in theory... for better or worse Jun 04 01:02:06 would like to discuss with DocScrutinizer about those tranzorbs and why it conflicts with blue_led research - discuss, nto argue, as it's very interesting topic... Jun 04 01:02:14 but you don't need to check, as I've already done that. There IS NO ESD protection on testpoints Jun 04 01:02:15 but of course he si childlish and /ignore me, so no way to... ;) Jun 04 01:02:18 maemo autobuilder is shit Jun 04 01:02:36 Pali, btw, have I missed it, our You havent commented on widespreading kernel-power via banners and such things? Jun 04 01:02:58 Pali, rest assured, we will have COBS soon - which is better, but probably, going to bring even more problems during first period of time ;P Jun 04 01:03:06 Ok, guys... easy to solve the problem. Take a doner/broken N900, throw some esd surges down those two pins. Jun 04 01:03:10 Either it breaks or not. Jun 04 01:03:13 something which scratchbox compile and install into debian/tmp/usr/lib autobuilder it install into debian/tmp/lib... Jun 04 01:03:14 Ought to be testable Jun 04 01:03:26 robbiethe1st, yea, try with Your N900 that ahve modem destroyed :P Jun 04 01:03:39 s/ahve/have/ Jun 04 01:03:39 Estel_ meant: robbiethe1st, yea, try with Your N900 that have modem destroyed :P Jun 04 01:03:41 Nah, I'm not the one arguing either way Jun 04 01:03:48 Estel_, I do not think that banner help Jun 04 01:03:53 Plus, that's the one that /works/ now Jun 04 01:03:57 robbiethe1st: wtf?? do you think absence of ESD protection can be verified by breaking stuff? Jun 04 01:04:04 Yes? Jun 04 01:04:07 no Jun 04 01:04:08 Pali, understood Jun 04 01:04:27 robbiethe1st, absence of ESd protection can be verified only by asking DocScrutinizer ;) Jun 04 01:04:35 dang, you wouldn't even be able to tell for sure what defects any surge might trigger in chip Jun 04 01:04:42 same apply for things like "does earth roll" and so goes on. Jun 04 01:04:59 Well, if it still works right, USB transfers still work... Jun 04 01:05:27 But, to be honest, I'd say the best solution is to take a "broken" n900, use those pins, and run it for a while. Jun 04 01:05:32 very nature of ESD damage is that it's hard to predict it Jun 04 01:05:41 I must admit that it may work for years, then break on one fatal moment Jun 04 01:05:45 If it stops working USB wise, it's likely a problem. If not, consider it "safe enough". Jun 04 01:05:49 but, fortunately, I haven't encountered it Jun 04 01:05:59 of course there are always idiots with a WFM approach, like "I rubbed a ballon against wool and touched the device with it. No smoke detected. So it has to be safe" Jun 04 01:06:34 but that's not how real life electronics work Jun 04 01:06:38 I'll say there's also a "safe enough" point - there's always a chance of anything happen at any time. Jun 04 01:06:46 robbiethe1st, I admit that i'm not E enginer, so You're probably better to listen to his advices - even though he talks them like asshat in very irritating manner Jun 04 01:06:48 it might survive 5 surges and break on 6th Jun 04 01:06:49 Like, say, a cosmic ray breaking the same thing. Jun 04 01:07:03 it might stop computing 1 + 1 as 2 Jun 04 01:07:17 robbiethe1st, I tend to share Your point of view here, with some additional doze of being careful Jun 04 01:07:37 that why I've started doing it *only* after it was confirmed, that data on testpADS beneath battery actually lacks only common choke Jun 04 01:07:37 My point of view here is, be somewhat careful and keep recent backups Jun 04 01:07:45 and a second N900 handy Jun 04 01:08:00 it might (very likely) fry any chip internal clamp diodes to the point where USB2 doesn't work anymore Jun 04 01:08:02 after all, working N900 with less reliable ESd is better than non-working one Jun 04 01:08:29 robbiethe1st, if You want, hoever, point of view of another E enginer, ask blue_led Jun 04 01:08:44 he was the one that bashed DocScrutinizer's FUD (or not to FUD? who knows...) Jun 04 01:09:10 but noooooo mr estel knows better and accuses an EE telling FUD about his primary competence domain Jun 04 01:09:14 Also... http://wiki.maemo.org/images/a/aa/Testpoints_tx.jpg Says to me that running N900 off of external PS instead of battery is possible Jun 04 01:09:38 Also, you two? I don't F***ing give two shits about your petty fights. Jun 04 01:10:03 I want to know specific facts about specific situations, including anecdotal evidence. Jun 04 01:10:23 GeneralAntilles: I again request you instruct Estel_to refrain from insulting me Jun 04 01:10:43 Ooh, that looks good; battery test-pads are on the same side as the USB port. Makes things loads easier. Jun 04 01:10:44 and I request You to stop requesting ;) I'm trying to help robbiethe1st with his problem Jun 04 01:11:22 and I've already told him that YOU ( DocScrutinizer ) are EE, so it's better to listen to Your advices, cause i'm not E engineer. Still, telling him to *check* sources for himself isn't insulting. Jun 04 01:11:29 so stop this childlish madness. Jun 04 01:11:34 robbiethe1st: sorry guy, I don't even see estel_ (/ignore) so how the FUCK can I fight with him. Please don't push the flamewar and shit going on here Jun 04 01:12:14 That, right there, says that you're immature. /ignoring someone just makes things worse for 3rd parties Jun 04 01:12:25 uhuh Jun 04 01:12:34 F U Jun 04 01:12:36 Because it means /I/ get two halves of 3 conversations. Jun 04 01:13:02 who except maintainers can promote package from extras-devel to extras-testing? Jun 04 01:13:09 Pali, X-Fade Jun 04 01:13:15 I'd like to see locate in Extras Jun 04 01:13:17 Council is working to change it. Jun 04 01:13:37 I'm on pending list of maintainers Jun 04 01:13:51 original maintainer doesn't respond? Jun 04 01:14:45 seems yes Jun 04 01:15:01 titan Jun 04 01:15:05 ouh Jun 04 01:15:10 http://maemo.org/packages/view/locate/ Jun 04 01:15:32 I did not tried contact him Jun 04 01:15:42 frtuitless effort Jun 04 01:15:43 Pali, how do we get bootmenu 1.12 into Extras? Jun 04 01:16:25 Pali, I'll talk with X-Fade today, @ 15 UTC, if he will be attending COBS meeting Jun 04 01:16:32 robbiethe1st, bootmenu is in extras-testing Jun 04 01:16:46 needs voting for promotion Jun 04 01:16:49 will add this as ad-hoc point to grant You maintainership, but, generally, we're working on generating group of people with privilleges to promote packages Jun 04 01:16:51 well tested ones Jun 04 01:16:53 How do I vote? Jun 04 01:16:55 but unmaintained Jun 04 01:17:12 yea, Pali voted 3x times :p Jun 04 01:17:21 I want to get all the recent, stable dependancies for BM into Extras, so mine can get there someday Jun 04 01:17:25 here: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/bootmenu/1.12/ Jun 04 01:18:19 Estel_, there are more packages which should go to extras Jun 04 01:18:28 of course Jun 04 01:18:33 I do not remember full list Jun 04 01:18:48 no worries, general diea is to create super-testers group Jun 04 01:18:53 that would be able to promote packages Jun 04 01:19:10 Ok, BootMenu is now at 6 karma Jun 04 01:19:11 but if somebody on IRC will have permission for that, it would be nice Jun 04 01:19:12 for example having enough votes, but stuck in queye due to absent maintainer Jun 04 01:19:15 What happens now? Jun 04 01:20:07 wait until maemo package interface show me promote button Jun 04 01:20:12 Also, http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/mtd-utils/20090606-1maemo1/ need votes for this Jun 04 01:20:33 QA Quarantine ends: 2012-06-12 20:45 Jun 04 01:20:45 You can still vote for it, me thinks Jun 04 01:20:51 Same with http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/i2c-tools/3.0.2-1maemo3/ Jun 04 01:20:59 so we need wait one week for bootmenu :-( Jun 04 01:21:17 fair enough Jun 04 01:21:21 robbiethe1st, better post links for voting in backupmenu's TMO thread Jun 04 01:21:39 as on IRc, You won't find many people for voting. Jun 04 01:21:44 that have tested packages Jun 04 01:22:04 Do you have BM installed and working? Then you've tested it Jun 04 01:22:12 I'm using mtd-utils and i2c-tools and booth working :-) Jun 04 01:24:28 robbiethe1st, working and all options tested - yes Jun 04 01:24:34 so i've voted Jun 04 01:24:53 still, posting links in 3 AM on irc won't get You to have full akrma for msot packages Jun 04 01:24:57 so post it in TMO thread ;) Jun 04 01:25:06 lately, people are much more educated about importance of voting Jun 04 01:25:15 so if You put it in backupmenu thread as request to tets and vote, they will do. Jun 04 01:25:27 robbiethe1st, two notes about backupmenu: 1. delete or fix bugtracker link 2. remove vim swap file /usr/share/backupmenu/.functions.sh.swp Jun 04 01:25:39 Latter is I think gone Jun 04 01:25:43 was in the one build Jun 04 01:27:22 Completely off topic question: Anyone who has a N950 or (likely) N9, do you know the default alarm clock melody? Jun 04 01:27:36 On my N950, it also vibrates in tune with the audio Jun 04 01:27:48 Do you know if we could do something similar on the N900? Jun 04 01:31:34 Docs, Estel_ Looking at the N900 schematics Jun 04 01:31:45 there's the "HS USB Transceiver Jun 04 01:31:51 "d480" Jun 04 01:31:59 *"D4280" Jun 04 01:32:05 What chip is this, what model? Jun 04 01:32:20 It's a nxp USB transiever Jun 04 01:32:24 I've forgotten the model Jun 04 01:32:51 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Schematic Jun 04 01:33:33 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_USB Jun 04 01:33:46 * SpeedEvil goes back to sleep Jun 04 01:34:40 heh, was going to post these links too :P Jun 04 01:34:44 So, looks like both DocScrutinizer and Estel_ may be right Jun 04 01:34:56 :P Jun 04 01:35:05 The N900's ESD protection diodes are on the other side of a choke coil from the test points Jun 04 01:35:16 * Estel_ nods Jun 04 01:35:25 but... Jun 04 01:35:35 * Estel_ is rising courtain Jun 04 01:35:42 ...However, if this "similar" USB chip is any indication, it also has ESD protection built in Jun 04 01:35:50 tadam! Jun 04 01:35:52 SpeedEvil: g'nite Jun 04 01:36:10 robbiethe1st: well, I hate that "toldya" Jun 04 01:36:17 ...which would explain why it's working nevertheless Jun 04 01:36:44 ...and that DocScrutinizer likes more to provide crippled info, than to just admit I may be right ;) Jun 04 01:36:53 and no, the USB PHY's ESD is insufficient Jun 04 01:36:57 Which should protect it well enough to mitigate part of the surge, the rest of which will be clamped via the protection chip through the coil Jun 04 01:37:15 wut? hahaha Jun 04 01:37:20 How can you say that? (the similar chip)'s rated for +-8.8KV Jun 04 01:37:39 On the pins we care about Jun 04 01:39:17 there's a reason for the bifilar choke and the tranzorbs/varistors straight at USB receptacle Jun 04 01:39:42 * Estel_ watches, as tension goes higher and higher, like in good thriller Jun 04 01:39:44 Oh, I'm sure. Likely to comply with some regulation and or provide extra protection Jun 04 01:39:46 first of all the choke doesn't let pass any steep ESD surge Jun 04 01:39:54 robbiethe1st - like with common mode choke:P Jun 04 01:40:03 it's also there only to comply with fc-something Jun 04 01:40:26 for same fck'ed reason we haven't been having hostmode form very beginning - they wasn't able to comply with standards on due time Jun 04 01:40:53 Oh, speaking of which, have we been able to control/check the ID pin yet? Jun 04 01:40:54 and now I'm out again, as even you seem to love the friggin popcorn cinema estel is inscenating here on my expense, more than a reasonable discussion based on facts Jun 04 01:41:17 robbiethe1st, yes, we cna read it, but no use for now, due to no way of detecting speed Jun 04 01:41:21 but Pali is working on it Jun 04 01:41:32 as opposite to some guys that only talk that it's impossible ;) Jun 04 01:41:57 The commonmode choke means that it has high impedence to commonmode signals - this means that the protection diodes are effectively not connected to the circuit for the first few microseconds. Jun 04 01:42:06 This is plenty of time for damage to occur Jun 04 01:42:07 chillout DocScrutinizer, you sounds like thinking too much about Yourself. Jun 04 01:42:28 * SpeedEvil really goes to sleep. Jun 04 01:42:28 and since I'm not going to change that /ignore, I'm sorry you get 7 quarters of 33 discussins due to that Jun 04 01:42:33 SpeedEvil, true Jun 04 01:42:34 Well, couldn't we setup a simple system that, when that pin is pulled high or w/e, pops up a dialog on the desktop and allows the user to select the speed Jun 04 01:42:51 SpeedEvil, would expect the 8.8KV built in diodes to handle that part of it. Jun 04 01:44:19 * Estel_ wonders why DocScrutinizer told us that it's popcorn cinema... no, this childlish behavior is *real* drama! or even DRAMA Jun 04 01:44:21 Either way, I'd expect it'll probably work fine under /most/ conditions... To improve performance, the best thing would be to short out the common mode coul Jun 04 01:44:39 robbiethe1st, using testpads, You're not passing common mode Jun 04 01:44:44 so don't need to care about it Jun 04 01:45:02 anyone here can give me a lil help with n900 Jun 04 01:45:13 No, but that would allow the external ESD protection chip to help out in countering any surges Jun 04 01:45:16 I have backupmenu installed modified my /etc/passwd file Jun 04 01:45:19 sure thing, just ask, and don't get upsed if we ask you to readmsome manuals, if Your question was covered Jun 04 01:45:24 Yes, xd? Jun 04 01:45:31 phone won't start Jun 04 01:45:37 i know how to fix the file Jun 04 01:45:41 Period, or in BM mode? Jun 04 01:45:44 can i use backupmenu to access it Jun 04 01:45:51 bm works Jun 04 01:45:56 Do you have power kernel installed? Jun 04 01:45:59 i do Jun 04 01:46:09 Then yes. Jun 04 01:46:22 Run BM, try to run root console Jun 04 01:46:39 Once there, if you can login, you've got a terminal and you can fix it Jun 04 01:46:42 oh sweet jesus Jun 04 01:46:43 :) Jun 04 01:46:53 You'll need to mount the rootfs partition(mountroot command) Jun 04 01:47:00 then just edit it Jun 04 01:48:12 wait, wait Jun 04 01:48:14 wuts root password Jun 04 01:48:28 what does /etc/passwd have to do with non-booting phone Jun 04 01:48:37 changed user info Jun 04 01:48:44 I see. Jun 04 01:48:53 have you used ssh? Jun 04 01:48:55 tried to make bash4 default Jun 04 01:48:58 sshd anyway Jun 04 01:49:04 as for root, erm, it's the one You've set up? Jun 04 01:49:05 can i use it as a hard drive Jun 04 01:49:12 and see the file Jun 04 01:49:14 ? Jun 04 01:49:18 No. Jun 04 01:49:20 no, not rootfs Jun 04 01:49:20 Not the rootfs Jun 04 01:49:23 :) Jun 04 01:49:32 and *don't* make bash as default shell Jun 04 01:49:41 You gain more by installing busybox-power Jun 04 01:49:46 and You can still use bash when needed Jun 04 01:49:49 from userland Jun 04 01:49:52 You can, however, make a backup of your rootfs to the mydocs, then mount the mydocs via USB, copy off the tar file, extract your passwd Jun 04 01:49:58 replacing busybox with bash is incredibly wrong idea Jun 04 01:50:06 haha Jun 04 01:50:07 change the passwd, stick it back into the tar, then stick that back on n900 and restore the image Jun 04 01:50:19 wuts the login info when i use root console Jun 04 01:50:21 ? Jun 04 01:50:25 xd13, BTw, robbiethe1st is author of backupmenu Jun 04 01:50:31 login: root Jun 04 01:50:35 ya Jun 04 01:50:38 password Jun 04 01:50:40 ? Jun 04 01:50:42 passwrd: Jun 04 01:50:48 i never set one Jun 04 01:50:54 how i'msupposed to know Your root password? Jun 04 01:50:58 In which case you're screwed Jun 04 01:51:00 have You installed openssh? Jun 04 01:51:00 For that method Jun 04 01:51:06 i have installed openssh Jun 04 01:51:14 so, it asked You to create password upon installation Jun 04 01:51:15 Then that root password is the one Jun 04 01:51:30 be back soon; dinner time. Jun 04 01:51:33 hmm Jun 04 01:51:37 I never created a pass Jun 04 01:51:44 that's weird Jun 04 01:52:40 You wouldn't be able to end openssh installation Jun 04 01:52:42 I have a recent backup, better to just restore em Jun 04 01:52:47 unless you installked client only Jun 04 01:52:50 yes. Jun 04 01:52:52 or Jun 04 01:52:55 as robbiethe1st said Jun 04 01:53:02 make backup, untar it on pc Jun 04 01:53:08 change /etc/passwd Jun 04 01:53:11 and tar it again Jun 04 01:53:12 then restore Jun 04 01:53:14 anyway Jun 04 01:53:24 if backupmenu saved Your ass, consider donating few bucks to robbiethe1st Jun 04 01:53:28 he is author of backupmenu Jun 04 01:54:01 question is Jun 04 01:54:03 I'm going off-line for a while, will solder sd card slot to my router :D Jun 04 01:54:07 ? Jun 04 01:54:12 if this works how do i set a root passwd Jun 04 01:54:29 same way as in any linux distro, see manuals for it on net :) Jun 04 01:57:01 Estel_, all packages (except that nokia non free) for ipv6 are in extras-devel Jun 04 01:58:38 woohoo my ass is saved :) Jun 04 02:00:54 xd13: root:HxfFl.UXLGGDA:0:0:root:/root:/bin/sh Jun 04 02:01:06 is a line for /etc/passwd Jun 04 02:01:16 with plaintext password n900 Jun 04 02:02:36 i only installed ssh client Jun 04 02:02:40 i'm back anyway Jun 04 02:02:42 replace your original line for "root:" with this one Jun 04 02:02:44 backupmenu saved my ass Jun 04 02:05:34 replace the line in /etc/password with the one u gave me Jun 04 02:05:37 ? Jun 04 02:34:32 Back Jun 04 02:34:43 wb Jun 04 02:46:09 Shell question Jun 04 02:46:43 I've got a command: "gtar -options alkfahfhwf 2> /path" Jun 04 02:47:00 Can I pipe stdout to another program like: Jun 04 02:47:19 "gtar -options alkfahfhwf 2> /path | split -b 100m"? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jun 04 02:59:58 2012