**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 10 03:00:03 2012
Jun 10 08:31:26 <MohammadAG> Tmo dead?
Jun 10 08:32:24 <rcg> seems so
Jun 10 08:47:23 <Hurrian> yup
Jun 10 09:51:40 <Estel_> hm, many times I'm stunned by expertise and knowledge of Maemo people...
Jun 10 09:53:19 <Estel_> Other times, I'm really grateful, that people like Stallman or Poettering fans shape the way we're going to use linux, modern days
Jun 10 09:54:35 <Estel_> You can flame me whatever You want, but I'm perfectly sure, that if our NIRC gurus" would be on charge, we would have frozen specification, feature set, and layout in freedesktop from late 80's ;)
Jun 10 09:54:39 <Estel_> up to this day.
Jun 10 09:55:15 <Estel_> +48668 version of overlays for other use cases, 3/4 of them non compatible with each other
Jun 10 10:23:32 <fasta> Doesn't /home/user have 32GB of space?
Jun 10 10:24:26 <joga> it's mounted at /home/user/MyDocs
Jun 10 10:25:41 <jacekowski> and it's 28G
Jun 10 10:26:26 <fasta> Ah, never mind. I just had made some wrong assumptions.
Jun 10 10:41:41 <fasta> Is sitting next to an n900 FM transmitter dangerous to health?
Jun 10 10:43:06 <Estel_> yes. It's as much dangerous, as listening to casual FM radio, or walking street
Jun 10 10:43:08 <Estel_> or sex
Jun 10 10:43:16 <Estel_> everything is dangerous to health. Even passing of time itself.
Jun 10 10:44:06 <fasta> Estel_: I moved a lot of mp3s to the .sound directory, but it doesn't list any. Do you know why?
Jun 10 10:44:22 <Estel_> probably, because .sound directory isn't meant to move files there
Jun 10 10:44:34 <Estel_> eveyr directory starting with dot "." is ommited by tracker, by default
Jun 10 10:44:37 <jacekowski> fasta: have you disconnected the phone
Jun 10 10:44:55 <Estel_> no, he mvoed fiels to directory where system sounds - like sms beep - are stored
Jun 10 10:45:07 <Estel_> it's a feature, that this dir is ommited
Jun 10 10:45:15 <fasta> Where should I put them instead?
Jun 10 10:45:34 <Estel_> whenever Yuo want, but not anywhere under directory tree that starts with dot
Jun 10 10:45:41 <Estel_> so /.whatever/music/files is bad
Jun 10 10:45:48 <Estel_> but /anywhere/you/want/at/all is good
Jun 10 10:45:54 <Estel_> tracker will find it on it's own
Jun 10 10:45:59 <fasta> /home/user/mp3s then
Jun 10 10:46:03 <Estel_> why not
Jun 10 10:46:09 <Estel_> anyway, mp3 suxx, use ogg instead
Jun 10 10:46:17 <fasta> And flac?
Jun 10 10:46:19 <NIN101> ... 
Jun 10 10:46:26 <Estel_> flac rox, but files are biiig
Jun 10 10:46:27 <fasta> I.e. does it support flac?
Jun 10 10:46:41 <Estel_> it support everything desktop computer support, as long as You have approriate things installed
Jun 10 10:46:55 <fasta> Well, that's like freaking awesome then. Thanks.
Jun 10 10:46:55 <Estel_> it's not a phone, it's computer with phone functions
Jun 10 10:47:02 <Estel_> get used to it and Your life will be easier :)
Jun 10 10:47:06 <Estel_> no problem
Jun 10 10:47:22 <fasta> I already managed to shoot pictures in raw format too.
Jun 10 10:47:26 <Estel_> of course.
Jun 10 10:47:53 <fasta> And, I can use FM radio while USB is connected, thanks to jacekowski's software.
Jun 10 10:47:56 <Estel_> probably, cia camera-ui from Nicolai? Or, via fmcam drivers?
Jun 10 10:48:04 <Estel_> boths give slightly different results
Jun 10 10:48:08 <fasta> Estel_: I think I use fcamera.
Jun 10 10:48:13 * Estel_ nods
Jun 10 10:48:19 <fasta> Estel_: I also have the blessn900 app.
Jun 10 10:48:36 <Estel_> there is no definite answer which one gives better results, so, I use to do shotting from boths (of course not at the same very moment)
Jun 10 10:48:37 <fasta> It would be nice if I could zoom into the raw pictures.
Jun 10 10:48:38 <Estel_> during session
Jun 10 10:48:44 <Estel_> blessn900 suxx big time
Jun 10 10:48:54 <fasta> Estel_: I would like to map the camera button to fcamera, though.
Jun 10 10:49:02 <Estel_> justs tick to camera-ui from CSSU, it also can take raws, or fcam
Jun 10 10:49:08 <Estel_> no problem
Jun 10 10:49:17 <fasta> Estel_: how?
Jun 10 10:49:47 <Estel_> instal "quick launch"
Jun 10 10:49:55 <Estel_> s/instal/install/
Jun 10 10:49:55 <infobot> Estel_ meant: install "quick launch"
Jun 10 10:50:05 <Estel_> it allow You to map things to camera slie out
Jun 10 10:50:08 <Estel_> slide, ffs
Jun 10 10:50:19 <Estel_> i.e. You open camera cover, and menu with 4 possible items appear
Jun 10 10:50:28 <Estel_> also, you mayw ant to sue shortcutd
Jun 10 10:50:38 <Estel_> it allow You to map things to camera button itself too, although, hgalf press only
Jun 10 10:50:43 <Estel_> both long press and short press
Jun 10 10:50:51 <Estel_> so you can have different things for long and short half-press
Jun 10 10:51:18 <Estel_> for example, I use quick launch, and, upon sliding camera cover, I've 4 options ons creen - camera-ui, fcam, lowlight, and torch (flashlight)
Jun 10 10:51:19 <fasta> Estel_: that's exactly what I want yes. 
Jun 10 10:51:44 <Estel_> so have fun :)
Jun 10 10:52:29 <fasta> How should I view the Tizen platform in the mobile landscape?
Jun 10 10:52:58 <SpeedEvil> Through rose-tinted glasses.
Jun 10 10:54:06 <fasta> I mean: are phones based on it basically as hackable as the n900/is it a cheap rip-off/does it even already work, etc.?
Jun 10 10:56:44 <fasta> I also haven't been able to add any widget other than the Associated Press widget.
Jun 10 10:56:50 <fasta> In particular the CPU load one.
Jun 10 10:57:03 <fasta> I installed it, but it doesn't show up anywhere.
Jun 10 11:01:11 <Estel_> fasta, if Tizen is usable for anything, then it's onlyto get rid of it and install Mer
Jun 10 11:01:14 <Estel_> as soon as you get device
Jun 10 11:01:19 <Estel_> and *if* it's doable.
Jun 10 12:11:10 <Darkchaos> Rofl. Firefox takes 2.5GB RAM
Jun 10 12:23:35 <fasta> Darkchaos: likely it doesn't.
Jun 10 12:23:49 <fasta> Darkchaos: i.e. some web-app takes 2.5GB of RAM/
Jun 10 12:23:56 <fasta> Darkchaos: completely different statement.
Jun 10 12:24:21 <fasta> Is there like a newbie friendly description of starhash enabler?
Jun 10 12:25:08 <hatake_kakashi> Send raw commands through cellular network? ;)
Jun 10 12:25:11 <fasta> The people on http://my-maemo.com/software/applications.php?fldAuto=1622&faq=42 generally seem not to be pleased; likely because it seems to be targeted at phone engineers ;)
Jun 10 12:25:33 <fasta> I am thinking of things like: where is the UI?
Jun 10 12:25:43 <fasta> I.e. where can I configure it?
Jun 10 12:25:51 <hatake_kakashi> an average joe wouldn't want to fiddle with fancy commands unless there was a need in the first place
Jun 10 12:26:07 <fasta> Well, the redirection stuff seems pretty useful.
Jun 10 12:26:13 <hatake_kakashi> I thought starhash just gives you extra buttons at the phone dial screen
Jun 10 12:26:40 <jacekowski> fasta: thing is, same web-app on opera would take half of that ram
Jun 10 12:26:57 <jacekowski> fasta: and firefox is well known for it's memory leaks
Jun 10 12:27:21 <hatake_kakashi> lets not forget IE
Jun 10 12:27:28 <fasta> jacekowski: I know firefox is well known for its memory leaks.
Jun 10 12:27:40 <jacekowski> hatake_kakashi: IE has improved a lot
Jun 10 12:27:49 <jacekowski> hatake_kakashi: latest IE is faster than firefox
Jun 10 12:27:55 <fasta> jacekowski: I also know that it's in most cases a problem created by the way JavaScript/DOM interaction works.
Jun 10 12:28:09 <jacekowski> fasta: doesn't matter, other browsers don't leak like that
Jun 10 12:28:14 <fasta> jacekowski: and while web programmers could mitigate it in most cases, they don't do that.
Jun 10 12:28:24 <fasta> jacekowski: I think a factor of 2 is not that much.
Jun 10 12:28:39 <fasta> jacekowski: But if it is really a different function, there is a problem.
Jun 10 12:28:50 <fasta> I.e. a memory leak would suggest memory usage goes to infinity.
Jun 10 12:28:56 <jacekowski> it does
Jun 10 12:29:00 <jacekowski> slowl
Jun 10 12:29:03 <jacekowski> slowly
Jun 10 12:29:12 <fasta> If that really is a Firefox problem, the indeed it's awful.
Jun 10 12:29:20 <fasta> I think most people run Chrome these days.
Jun 10 12:29:29 <hatake_kakashi> jacekowski, not that I　have tried the latest IE, though I'm sure IE　wouldn't be all that much better than firefox imo
Jun 10 12:29:42 <fasta> I think IE10 isn't that bad.
Jun 10 12:29:53 <fasta> IE7 is just a joke.
Jun 10 12:30:00 <hatake_kakashi> rather, was :)
Jun 10 12:30:08 <jacekowski> hatake_kakashi: IE9 doesn't have a single line of code common with IE6
Jun 10 12:30:11 <fasta> Lots of web developers dropped it I think.
Jun 10 12:30:19 <jacekowski> hatake_kakashi: it was pretty much a total rewrite
Jun 10 12:30:29 <jacekowski> hatake_kakashi: and their JS engine is really fast
Jun 10 12:30:36 <Hurrian> meh, IE10 is pretty much standards-compliant with everyone else
Jun 10 12:30:42 <Hurrian> IE9 still has some quirks
Jun 10 12:32:20 <Raimu> Where's IE10, Metro?
Jun 10 12:34:26 <Raimu> Oh, there's a W7 compatible platform preview out.
Jun 10 12:34:30 <hatake_kakashi> jacekowski, still, according to a benchmark I just saw, it still isn't vastly superior compared to firefox let alone chrome
Jun 10 12:34:48 <Raimu> I thought IE9 was pretty nice for IE.
Jun 10 12:35:00 <jacekowski> hatake_kakashi: but IE is improving
Jun 10 12:35:08 <jacekowski> hatake_kakashi: firefox is getting more bloated all the time
Jun 10 12:35:14 <Raimu> Firefox's only selling point for me these days is the fact that it has a lot of plugins, but that's the only thing rooting for it.
Jun 10 12:35:37 <Raimu> Chrome is a massive, and I mean m-a-s-s-i-v-e memory hog, but it doesn't matter on my desktop PC.
Jun 10 12:35:37 <fasta> Can anyone please tell me how I can get the CPU load displayed in some fancy widget?
Jun 10 12:36:12 <Raimu> fasta: Tried this? http://maemo.org/packages/view/cpumem-applet/
Jun 10 12:36:19 <hatake_kakashi> jacekowski, doesn't mean that mozilla foundation won't rewrite up firefox to make it go fast again, surely people complain about laggy-ness
Jun 10 12:36:47 <Raimu> hatake_kakashi: Sure, they did that between FF three and four.
Jun 10 12:37:13 <fasta> Raimu: maemo seems dead here
Jun 10 12:37:18 <hatake_kakashi> I'd second what Raimu said with the cpumem applet, that was one of the fair few programs I've installed eversince I got my N900
Jun 10 12:37:18 <Raimu> hatake_kakashi: I'm afraid though that the next time they're going to make some hard design choices that affect backwards compatibility.
Jun 10 12:37:31 <fasta> Raimu: Internal Server Error 500
Jun 10 12:37:34 <Raimu> fasta: Odd. Works for me. >:|
Jun 10 12:37:49 <hatake_kakashi> fasta, proxy?
Jun 10 12:37:56 <fasta> hatake_kakashi: no
Jun 10 12:38:10 <Raimu> fasta: Maybe you have a monster cookie that's making it behave like that.
Jun 10 12:38:17 <Raimu> You know, corrupted one.
Jun 10 12:38:21 <fasta> A monster cookie? 
Jun 10 12:38:23 <fasta> Haha
Jun 10 12:38:26 <hatake_kakashi> Raimu, well heck, some things may have to go :)
Jun 10 12:38:43 <hatake_kakashi> infected cookie
Jun 10 12:38:58 <Raimu> fasta: I love saying "monster cookie". I meant a corrupt cookie that got bungled somehow and needs to be deleted from the browser cache.
Jun 10 12:39:12 <fasta> Raimu: it's a server error, not a client error.
Jun 10 12:39:21 <fasta> Raimu: the server should reset the cookie.
Jun 10 12:39:34 <fasta> Raimu: in short, it's just a programmer error on maemo.org
Jun 10 12:40:05 <fasta> Raimu: another browser works, btw.
Jun 10 12:40:25 <Raimu> So yeah, there's bad data in your browser cache or something.
Jun 10 12:40:44 <fasta> Raimu: I already see some tiny icon with cpu load and probably memory.
Jun 10 12:41:12 <Raimu> Does HAM work?
Jun 10 12:41:13 <fasta> Raimu: I am looking for something which is a bit larger than icon size.
Jun 10 12:41:18 <fasta> Raimu: yes
Jun 10 12:41:19 <Raimu> Oh.
Jun 10 12:41:56 <Raimu> There are widgets, I recall, but at least one I actually tried hogged CPU resources.
Jun 10 12:42:22 <Raimu> So that was kind of a "observer creating an effect on the observed" thing and I removed it.
Jun 10 12:44:15 <fasta> Raimu: which map application do you use?
Jun 10 12:44:23 <fasta> Is OVI still being updated?
Jun 10 12:45:09 <Raimu> I rely on browsered Google Maps, to be honest. Where I live the on-platform n900 map apps aren't much use.
Jun 10 12:45:31 <Raimu> No clue about OVI.
Jun 10 12:46:16 <fasta> Raimu: in which browser?
Jun 10 12:46:42 <fasta> Where is Chrome for n900, btw? 
Jun 10 12:47:51 <Raimu> Dead and buried
Jun 10 12:48:06 <Raimu> Or, rather, if you want to use Easy Debian on the side, there.
Jun 10 12:48:20 <Raimu> But there is no official Chromium port or even an unofficial one these days.
Jun 10 12:48:55 <Raimu> Some years ago there was some sort of an intellectual property shitstorm over Chromium and something something profit, and people just stopped porting it on Maemo.
Jun 10 13:20:25 <Estel_> Chromium works via easy debian
Jun 10 13:20:32 <Estel_> and those shitstorm was just a hoax
Jun 10 13:24:27 <fasta> You need 2.5 GB free on one of your memory cards, although after installing, you will only need 2 GB.
Jun 10 13:24:31 <fasta> Isn't the rootfs 2GB?
Jun 10 13:24:43 <NIN101> it isn't
Jun 10 13:25:03 <fasta> Or rather the location for programs, etc.
Jun 10 13:25:08 <fasta> I thought it was limited at 2GB.
Jun 10 13:25:23 <fasta> I.e. some kind of disconnect between data and application.
Jun 10 13:25:28 <Hurrian> fasta, make a partition and dump e-d there
Jun 10 13:25:36 <NIN101> more or less correct, /home/ is 2 GB, and they do some symlink busines, "opticated" programs are stored in /home/opt/
Jun 10 13:26:23 <fasta> Hurrian: why do I need to make a partition?
Jun 10 13:27:01 <fasta> Hurrian: (the instructions don't talk about that)
Jun 10 13:28:28 <fasta> It seems to just install an image file. 
Jun 10 13:28:43 <fasta> So, your suggestion makes no sense to me.
Jun 10 13:29:43 <fasta> Is there some way to automatically switch to whatever network is available?
Jun 10 13:29:59 <fasta> I mean without manually pressing all kinds of buttons.
Jun 10 13:49:19 <Venemo> hey
Jun 10 13:49:36 <Venemo> I recall that there was some way to show a splash screen on Maemo 5.
Jun 10 13:49:38 <Venemo> can someone tell me what it was?
Jun 10 13:55:28 <fasta> Venemo: bootsplash
Jun 10 13:55:47 <Venemo> fasta: I mean, a spash screen for an app
Jun 10 13:56:02 <Venemo> I think it was a parameter in the .desktop file, but I'm unsure
Jun 10 13:56:20 <fasta> Why don't globs work?
Jun 10 13:56:29 <fasta> I.e. ls *
Jun 10 13:56:40 <Venemo> hm?
Jun 10 13:56:55 <fasta> On my desktop system ls *==ls output
Jun 10 13:57:03 <fasta> On n900: ls *==error
Jun 10 13:57:14 <fasta> I even tried with bash
Jun 10 14:00:16 <DocScrutinizer06> can't reproduce, WFM
Jun 10 14:01:18 <fasta> DocScrutinizer06: /bin/ls: invalid option -- 5
Jun 10 14:01:33 <fasta> DocScrutinizer06: I inputted '/bin/ls *' without quotes
Jun 10 14:01:39 <fasta> (this is via ssh)
Jun 10 14:01:47 <fasta> In a directory with lots of files
Jun 10 14:02:19 <fasta> BusyBox v1.20.1 (Debian 1.20.1power1) multi-call binary.
Jun 10 14:02:32 <fasta> Perhaps these are the 'improved' tools which actually aren't improved?
Jun 10 14:03:03 <fasta> How do I get quassel for n900? It has disappeared from the OVI store.
Jun 10 14:03:12 <fasta> https://gitorious.org/~sgiessl/quassel2go/
Jun 10 14:03:13 <DocScrutinizer06> busybox-power?
Jun 10 14:03:18 <fasta> I only found that. 
Jun 10 14:03:42 <fasta> DocScrutinizer06: I don't know whether it's called like that. Under HAM it says Enhanced Busy box shell.
Jun 10 14:03:52 <DocScrutinizer06> fuckit
Jun 10 14:04:30 <DocScrutinizer06> open a ticket if you feel like
Jun 10 14:04:41 <DocScrutinizer06> or get rid of enhanced busybox
Jun 10 14:04:50 <DocScrutinizer06> install proper unix tools
Jun 10 14:05:07 <fasta> You mean the defaults or something else?
Jun 10 14:05:16 <DocScrutinizer06> ~jrtools
Jun 10 14:05:16 <infobot> i guess jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
Jun 10 14:06:58 <DocScrutinizer06> that page is called /tools because I originally just was about to replace busybox with proper bash and unix tools
Jun 10 14:07:48 <DocScrutinizer06> NB you still need (original working) busybox for boot
Jun 10 14:11:02 <DocScrutinizer06> ~messybox
Jun 10 14:11:03 <infobot> messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils
Jun 10 14:11:27 <DocScrutinizer06> and messybox-powa is for... what now?
Jun 10 14:13:35 <DocScrutinizer06> fasta: get bash3 or bash4, and proper gnu-* utils
Jun 10 14:17:04 <Jaffa> Af'noon, all. I see a purple high;ight, but have been away all week and forgot tp /quit.
Jun 10 14:17:22 <DocScrutinizer06> o/ Jaffa
Jun 10 14:18:09 <DocScrutinizer06> wb
Jun 10 14:20:52 <fasta> DocScrutinizer06: how can I do the equivalent sudo gainroot && ls (pseudo-code) that would then run ls as root?
Jun 10 14:21:27 <DocScrutinizer06> hmm?
Jun 10 14:21:46 <fasta> DocScrutinizer06: If I do sudo gainroot && ls, ls output is not shown.
Jun 10 14:21:48 <DocScrutinizer06> sorry, I don't get the question, or the problem
Jun 10 14:22:35 <DocScrutinizer06> sudo gainroot is not meant to run other stuff en passant
Jun 10 14:22:51 <DocScrutinizer06> sudo gainroot is equiv for su
Jun 10 14:23:04 <DocScrutinizer06> while root is equiv for su -
Jun 10 14:23:31 <fasta> ~ $ su
Jun 10 14:23:31 <fasta> su: must be suid to work properly
Jun 10 14:23:48 <vi__> how do you gain root on a Stock n900
Jun 10 14:23:50 <vi__> ?
Jun 10 14:23:54 <DocScrutinizer06> su doesn't work in messybox
Jun 10 14:23:59 <DocScrutinizer06> ~messybox
Jun 10 14:24:00 <infobot> messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils
Jun 10 14:24:19 <DocScrutinizer06> >>... and immanent limitations (see su)
Jun 10 14:24:46 <vi__> BB on n900, wtf where they smoking?
Jun 10 14:24:49 <fasta> DocScrutinizer06: so, how do I accomplish the goal: hassle free ssh myphone <run sequence of commands as root> ?
Jun 10 14:25:12 <fasta> vi__: sudo gainroot gets you a rootshell.
Jun 10 14:25:20 <fasta> vi__: so start X-terminal.
Jun 10 14:25:22 <DocScrutinizer06> err, no
Jun 10 14:25:38 <vi__> I want to know for a completly stock n900
Jun 10 14:25:39 <DocScrutinizer06> sudo gainroot does NOT get you a rootshell
Jun 10 14:25:48 <DocScrutinizer06> root gets you a rootshell
Jun 10 14:26:22 <fasta> DocScrutinizer06: but root && ls also doesn't work.
Jun 10 14:26:33 <DocScrutinizer06> yes
Jun 10 14:26:42 <DocScrutinizer06> there's sudo for that
Jun 10 14:26:43 <fasta> DocScrutinizer06: you are probably right about that other thing.
Jun 10 14:26:57 <fasta> DocScrutinizer06: so, sudo root && ls?
Jun 10 14:26:59 <vi__> fasta echo "ls" | root
Jun 10 14:27:03 <DocScrutinizer06> sudo ls
Jun 10 14:27:09 <vi__> fasta: echo "ls" | root
Jun 10 14:27:16 <DocScrutinizer06> and that's not configured in sudoers
Jun 10 14:27:22 <fasta> DocScrutinizer06: right
Jun 10 14:27:43 <fasta> echo ls | root
Jun 10 14:27:43 <fasta> mesg: not a tty
Jun 10 14:28:47 <vi__> fasta: echo "ls" | sudo gainroot
Jun 10 14:29:13 <fasta> vi__: ok, that does work.
Jun 10 14:29:34 <vi__> fasta: wtf are you trying to do?
Jun 10 14:29:50 <DocScrutinizer06> indeed
Jun 10 14:29:53 <fasta> vi__: I am trying to write a script which will install some tools.
Jun 10 14:30:07 <fasta> vi__: but without having to do useless things manually.
Jun 10 14:30:16 <vi__> via apt?
Jun 10 14:30:19 <DocScrutinizer06> hahaha
Jun 10 14:30:56 <DocScrutinizer06> ~ $ echo whoami | root
Jun 10 14:30:57 <DocScrutinizer06> Password:
Jun 10 14:30:59 <DocScrutinizer06> root
Jun 10 14:32:17 <fasta> Is root the rootpassword?
Jun 10 14:32:33 <DocScrutinizer06> escalating powers to root never is a nice thing to do hidden in a script
Jun 10 14:32:59 <DocScrutinizer06> no, do you think I print my root password here ;-P
Jun 10 14:33:00 <fasta> DocScrutinizer06: hidden? I am writing the code myself for me.
Jun 10 14:33:50 <fasta> It's only 8 chars.
Jun 10 14:34:02 <fasta> I don't think it matters whether you broadcast it or not.
Jun 10 14:34:06 <DocScrutinizer06> even then it's best practice to demand from yourself to enter "root" before you invoke a script that needs root
Jun 10 14:34:51 <DocScrutinizer06> well, it's not echoing when I type it, so how could I c&p?
Jun 10 14:35:02 <vi__> DocScrutinizers root password: URWRONG1
Jun 10 14:35:31 <vi__> DocScrutinizer: you are in german6
Jun 10 14:35:39 <vi__> DocScrutinizer: you are in germany?
Jun 10 14:35:44 <DocScrutinizer06> yep
Jun 10 14:35:46 <DocScrutinizer06> why?
Jun 10 14:35:48 <fasta> RICHTIG1
Jun 10 14:35:59 <fasta> AMIRIGHT
Jun 10 14:36:26 <vi__> you know if there is a trading standards office in germany where you go to complain about dodgy shops?
Jun 10 14:36:47 <DocScrutinizer06> well, you completely miss the detail that my n900 at all asks for a password
Jun 10 14:36:55 <DocScrutinizer06> yours probably won't
Jun 10 14:37:15 <DocScrutinizer06> and that's been the only thing I wanted to show
Jun 10 14:37:49 <DocScrutinizer06> to make fasta aware it's not a good idea to rely on echo xyz|sudo gainroot working in a script
Jun 10 14:38:02 <vi__> no it is not
Jun 10 14:38:13 <vi__> however I am sure he is sware of thed risks.
Jun 10 14:38:22 <fasta> Which risks?
Jun 10 14:38:31 <fasta> I am executing my own code.
Jun 10 14:38:38 <DocScrutinizer06> it's not even about the risks, it's about portability
Jun 10 14:38:41 <vi__> fasta somone might rewt ur bocks.
Jun 10 14:39:10 <fasta> But I don't have any comparable devices to an n900.
Jun 10 14:39:34 <fasta> It's designed to be 'portable' to an n900.
Jun 10 14:39:42 <DocScrutinizer06> the risk already there with sudo gainroot itself, resp with sudoers.d/01root not having PASSWD
Jun 10 14:39:47 <vi__> fasta: do not worry about it.  DocScrutinizer is just a paranoid nut.
Jun 10 14:39:50 <Hurrian> fasta, elevate the script from bash, don't elevate script from script
Jun 10 14:40:11 <fasta> Hurrian: I would like to have the scripts stored on a desktop directory.
Jun 10 14:40:17 <DocScrutinizer06> Hurrian: ++
Jun 10 14:40:23 <fasta> Hurrian: so, now what?
Jun 10 14:40:38 <Hurrian> wrapper script
Jun 10 14:40:46 <fasta> With your method, I need to first write a script to fetch it from the desktop.
Jun 10 14:40:58 <fasta> Also, I need to do that for every script I might want to call.
Jun 10 14:41:04 <DocScrutinizer06> fasta: wtf?!
Jun 10 14:41:08 <fasta> In short, not economically sane use of my time.
Jun 10 14:41:15 <DocScrutinizer06> I *completely* miss your problem
Jun 10 14:41:16 <vi__> DocScrutinizer: so german trading standards office, do they exist?
Jun 10 14:41:29 <fasta> DocScrutinizer06: I don't want to store the scripts on the phone.
Jun 10 14:41:37 <DocScrutinizer06> so ??
Jun 10 14:42:27 <fasta> Ok, well, I could write an executeDesktopScript scriptname script.
Jun 10 14:42:41 <DocScrutinizer06> set up a proper sshkey pair for root@n900, cat script|ssh root@n900
Jun 10 14:43:13 <fasta> DocScrutinizer06: well, that's a good solution too. 
Jun 10 14:43:21 <fasta> DocScrutinizer06: in fact, even better.
Jun 10 14:43:34 <fasta> DocScrutinizer06: I did setup a proper sshkey pair of course.
Jun 10 14:43:36 <DocScrutinizer06> btw concerning about not storing *scripts* (some kB MAX) on a device with 32GB storage, is....
Jun 10 14:43:51 <fasta> DocScrutinizer06: that's just for management purposes.
Jun 10 14:44:08 <vi__> is chem|st german?
Jun 10 14:44:13 <vi__> chem|st: ping
Jun 10 14:44:16 <DocScrutinizer06> yep, afaik
Jun 10 14:44:47 <vi__> perhaps he will know if germany has a trading standards office.
Jun 10 14:45:02 <DocScrutinizer06> I don't even know what that might be
Jun 10 14:45:27 <vi__> where you can make complaints about ships that rip people off.
Jun 10 14:45:41 <vi__> ^shops
Jun 10 14:47:36 <DocScrutinizer06> "Verbraucherzentrale"
Jun 10 14:47:41 <DocScrutinizer06> or the police
Jun 10 14:49:01 <DocScrutinizer06> for international trade there's still another entity, to settle conflicts with inner-EU trade
Jun 10 14:52:08 <vi__> what if I bought somthing from germany and it has turned out to be substandard.
Jun 10 14:52:13 <vi__> ?
Jun 10 14:52:41 <DocScrutinizer06> complain at the shop where you bought it
Jun 10 14:52:50 <vi__> If I give you his address, could you go around to his place and puch him in the dick?
Jun 10 14:53:14 <DocScrutinizer06> I could, but next week I'm busy ;-P
Jun 10 14:53:52 <vi__> but what do you do if the shop owner ignores your complaints and refuses to refund your money?
Jun 10 14:54:02 <DocScrutinizer06> vi__: you're in East?
Jun 10 14:54:08 <vi__> UK
Jun 10 14:54:11 <DocScrutinizer06> aaah
Jun 10 14:54:38 <DocScrutinizer06> no problem then, you are actually part of EU, believe it or not (still)
Jun 10 14:55:35 <DocScrutinizer06> each EU country has an EU trade conflict settlement entity - don't ask me about the name
Jun 10 14:55:40 <vi__> EU==hooray for propping up shithole countries that forgot to collect any tax for 20 years.
Jun 10 14:55:50 <DocScrutinizer06> yeah
Jun 10 14:55:57 <DocScrutinizer06> hail hellas
Jun 10 14:57:51 <DocScrutinizer06> vi__: afaik you have two weeks to send good back without further reasoning, after reception
Jun 10 14:58:01 <DocScrutinizer06> goods*
Jun 10 14:58:59 <DocScrutinizer06> and if value of goods is >(iirc)30EUR, shop has to even refund you for shipping fee
Jun 10 14:59:55 <vi__> unfortunatley it has been 3 months.
Jun 10 14:59:56 <DocScrutinizer06> but first of all, complain @ shop
Jun 10 15:00:04 <DocScrutinizer06> hmm, that's bad
Jun 10 15:00:16 <vi__> the shock absorber has just been fitted.
Jun 10 15:00:23 <vi__> and it is fucked.
Jun 10 15:00:31 <DocScrutinizer06> so all you got now is your legal warranty
Jun 10 15:00:35 <vi__> it was supposed to be good.
Jun 10 15:00:51 <vi__> I paid >wpp euros
Jun 10 15:00:56 <vi__> I paid >200 euros
Jun 10 15:01:00 <DocScrutinizer06> still same: complain @ shop, ask for warranty replacement
Jun 10 15:01:21 <vi__> I am FUCKING INSANE WITH RAGE.
Jun 10 15:02:22 <DocScrutinizer06> I know that. All the waiting, all the trouble to order stuff, all the work to fit the part, just to realize it's been futile
Jun 10 15:03:12 * vi__ has learnt a harsh lesson.
Jun 10 15:03:33 <DocScrutinizer06> well, shit happens
Jun 10 15:03:44 <DocScrutinizer06> even with decent shops
Jun 10 15:03:59 <vi__> Somedays you are the statue, somedays you are the bird.
Jun 10 15:04:36 <fasta> vi__: you'd wish you had nuclear launch capability at such times, right?
Jun 10 15:05:21 <DocScrutinizer06> I ordered a laptop with all sorts of custom tweaking and accessories. When it arrived it turned out the friggin lenovo proprietary PSU was defect. I mailed and called the shop about it and they sent me a free replacement PSU, one for the mail and one for the phonecall ;-D
Jun 10 15:06:02 <fasta> I kind of hate it that these webshops cannot send a replacement part back first.
Jun 10 15:06:12 <fasta> I mean before I send out the semi-broken item.
Jun 10 15:06:25 <fasta> Or are there shops which do this?
Jun 10 15:06:30 <fasta> For example with broken mobos.
Jun 10 15:07:00 <DocScrutinizer06> this shop did - "no, please don't send in the broken PSU. It needs proper disposal for recycling, could you please do that for us?"
Jun 10 15:07:33 <fasta> DocScrutinizer06: perhaps they know you as some technical "God"?
Jun 10 15:07:43 <DocScrutinizer06> definitely not
Jun 10 15:08:48 <DocScrutinizer06> I explained I tested mains cable -> 230V~. next break: plug to laptop -> 0V
Jun 10 15:09:26 <DocScrutinizer06> so, I concluded, it's the PSU or cable mounted to PSU that's defect
Jun 10 15:09:41 <DocScrutinizer06> they sent me two replacements right away
Jun 10 15:10:27 <obengdako> hi my first time here, i just installed whatsapp using the java oracle deb and the whatsapp deb file, i can't seem to see any messages sent to me, any suggestions
Jun 10 15:10:35 <DocScrutinizer06> hi obengdako
Jun 10 15:11:08 <DocScrutinizer06> obengdako: which device?
Jun 10 15:11:30 <obengdako> hi DocScrutinizer06 nokia n900
Jun 10 15:13:30 <DocScrutinizer06> so, a) seems you're at the right place here for your question, b) I have no idea and c) wait if somebody else will answer next 2..3h. If not, repeat your question, maybe a bit more prevcise regarding what you did install, and what's the problem/symptoms you encounter
Jun 10 15:16:05 <Estel_> fasta, OTOh, I would recommend You to install busybox power, as said...
Jun 10 15:16:24 <Estel_> this way, Yuo hjave same, consistent tool njo matter if you're just booting and using recovery console...
Jun 10 15:16:28 <Estel_> or already in fully working system
Jun 10 15:16:50 <Estel_> also, same task can be done with busybox as well, so installing bash is either laziness - most of the times - that only waste space
Jun 10 15:17:04 <DocScrutinizer06> AIUI whatsapp is written in java and you isntalled a java runtime thing - oracle?
Jun 10 15:17:20 <Estel_> or, in some cases, needed for complicated scripts mean to do really, really rarelly needed thing,s that You don't want to re-write
Jun 10 15:17:32 <Estel_> i.e. things that you will never ever use ;)
Jun 10 15:17:45 <DocScrutinizer06> some URLs might help, to point to the actual stuff you installed
Jun 10 15:17:57 <Estel_> writing scripts in bahs for N900 is a PITA - one day, you may want to share it with someone, and now, maintain compatibility
Jun 10 15:18:20 <obengdako>  hi my first time here, i just installed whatsapp using the java oracle-embedded-jre and the whatsapp-java-alpha  , i can't seem to see any messages sent to me, any suggestions, device n900
Jun 10 15:18:21 <DocScrutinizer06> or wheter you installed via HildonApplicationManager, and what's the exact names of packages then
Jun 10 15:18:27 <Estel_> and replacing busybox with bash for good, except boot, is *not* recommended at all
Jun 10 15:18:39 <Estel_> You never know, what will fail on such system, while it's working for others flawlessly.
Jun 10 15:19:17 <Estel_> obengdako, for whatsap questions, we're hitting You @ ear using rusty fork.
Jun 10 15:20:33 <fasta> Does a HTC sensation have a builtin FM transmitter also?
Jun 10 15:20:44 <Estel_> = either search forum for some things ported to n900 without reason, or, beg whatsshit developers to release N900 version, or *prefferrably*, use Jabber
Jun 10 15:20:50 <Estel_> or how it's called now
Jun 10 15:20:58 <fasta> Lots of people seem to say 'no' and a few say 'yes'.
Jun 10 15:21:02 <Estel_> fasta, maybe just google for it? How we're supposed to know?
Jun 10 15:21:07 <Estel_> check official specings
Jun 10 15:21:10 <DocScrutinizer06> fasta: nfc
Jun 10 15:21:14 <fasta> Estel_: I did. Mostly uninformed people. Yeah, will do.
Jun 10 15:21:24 <obengdako> Estel_ i don't quite understand
Jun 10 15:28:01 <DocScrutinizer06> haha, fine you made me look at chanlogs once again - for some technical reasons I can't see what user estel_ writes
Jun 10 15:28:56 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer06: is that an /ignore type of reason?
Jun 10 15:29:14 <DocScrutinizer06> fasta: replacing busybox by busybox-pwoer is the thing not recommended at all. Installing bash on the other hand is a perfectly sane thing to do, don't worry about any nonsensical compatibility issues
Jun 10 15:29:26 <DocScrutinizer06> jacekowski: yup
Jun 10 15:31:17 <DocScrutinizer06> fasta: quite obviously relying on other users having installed busybox-power is an insane thing, and you can't specify busybox-pwer in your shebang. You for sure can have a shebang like #!/bin/bash, and that's proper unix way to handle this sort of percieved "incompatibility"
Jun 10 15:33:44 <Estel_> fasta, it's your decision what to do. anyway, you might like to search TMO for post/threads of user,s that replaced busybox with bash, and face many, many problems
Jun 10 15:34:22 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, would say, that it's fault of poorly written programs/scripts - which also have some emrit behind it - yet, I think that laziness of some users, that dictate them to use bash instead of learning ash, is ever more poor excuse
Jun 10 15:34:44 <Estel_> despite popular opinion, busybox isn't worse -it's differrent, msot of the times. And "old timers" don't like to change their habits ;)
Jun 10 15:34:58 <DocScrutinizer06> obengdako: I dunno what Estel_ recommended. If you want to get proper advice here, you need to ask proper questions. A proper question will allow those who want to help to understand precisely what you did. That includes URLs of downloaded packages, of howto webpages you've read, etc
Jun 10 15:35:33 <DocScrutinizer06> commands you did. just enough so any other user in here can understand what it was you actually did
Jun 10 15:35:41 <Estel_> I'm strange example of someone, who had contact with ashy first, and bash some times after - bash irritates me as much, as ash irritates most bash users ;)
Jun 10 15:36:02 <DocScrutinizer06> or simply:
Jun 10 15:36:04 <DocScrutinizer06> ~ask
Jun 10 15:36:05 <infobot> Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.
Jun 10 15:36:06 <DocScrutinizer06> and
Jun 10 15:36:09 <DocScrutinizer06> ~question
Jun 10 15:36:09 <Estel_> busybox-power is effort by legendary Maemo developer - iDont - to bring us latest updstream version of busybox
Jun 10 15:36:10 <infobot> question is, like, If you have a question and want people to give useful answers, make sure you have read this first: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Jun 10 15:36:29 <Estel_> and, he succeed - busybox-power is, in fact, upstream version. even more, idon't patches affected upstream releases too.
Jun 10 15:37:01 <Estel_> busybox-power is one of essential packages for Maemo, no matter what. Of course, again, it's up to You to decide what You want to use. BTW, there is no problem in using BOTH busybox-power and bash
Jun 10 15:38:40 <DocScrutinizer06> haha, sometimes chanlogs are really great :-P
Jun 10 15:39:11 <DocScrutinizer06> fasta: you're NOT supposed to replace stock busybox by ANYTHING, not even busybox-power
Jun 10 15:39:52 <fasta> What happened to http://qt-apps.org/content/show.php/Quassel2Go?content=136828 ?
Jun 10 15:39:58 <DocScrutinizer06> busybox is a core essential part of maemo boot process, replacing it by anything else is foolish. AIUI busybox-power does exactly that, replace busybox
Jun 10 15:40:35 <fasta> I.e., where can I download a quassel client deb?
Jun 10 15:40:54 <fasta> Or alternatively instructions to do a cross-compile.
Jun 10 15:41:01 <fasta> I would prefer a deb.
Jun 10 15:41:19 <DocScrutinizer06> fasta: in short: install and use whatever shell you prefer best. *NEVER* though you shalt make any other shell default shell
Jun 10 15:41:40 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, if You're reading chanlogs so religiously - it's quite funny and a little pathetic, that You ignore me, yet, check every line from chanlog. Souns like kind of masochism ;)
Jun 10 15:41:43 <DocScrutinizer06> for user (it seems bash as root's default shell is safe)
Jun 10 15:41:47 <Estel_> s/souns/sounds/
Jun 10 15:43:35 <Estel_> BTW, whinning about busybox-power replacing busybox is poor bullshit, written by someone who actually don't know what busybox-power is
Jun 10 15:43:40 <Estel_> something also called FUD
Jun 10 15:44:16 <Estel_> busybox-power incorporates upstream busybox patches - i.e., it's latest upstream version - that ADD funcionality and FIXES bugs, without dropping any things possible in stock busybox
Jun 10 15:44:28 <Estel_> think about it like cssu, yet, even more compatible.
Jun 10 15:44:41 <DocScrutinizer06> though I strongly discourrage to do bash default shell for root as well
Jun 10 15:44:48 <Estel_> (if it wouldn't be due to ideologically biased maintainer, busybox-power would be part of cssu for ages)
Jun 10 15:46:09 <DocScrutinizer06> and in this context busybox means "the shell and all the 'builtin' commands it comes with" - that's why most unix tools come in gnu-disguise and install under /usr/bin/gnu/*
Jun 10 15:47:03 <DocScrutinizer06> replacing the busybox symlinks aka alternatives by proper original unix-tools will also result in bootloop
Jun 10 15:48:36 <DocScrutinizer06> fasta: and obviously you ran into a busybox-power incompatibility/bug in busybox-ls that has potential to also cause bootloop or other severe issues when you dare to replace original busybox by this powa thing
Jun 10 15:49:43 <DocScrutinizer06> fasta: bottom line: either stick with builtin busybox, or et an *additional* decent shell like described in
Jun 10 15:49:46 <DocScrutinizer06> ~jrtools
Jun 10 15:49:46 <infobot> it has been said that jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
Jun 10 15:49:57 <DocScrutinizer06> since
Jun 10 15:50:00 <DocScrutinizer06> ~messybox
Jun 10 15:50:01 <infobot> messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils
Jun 10 15:52:59 <Estel_> of course DocScrutinizer is spreading FUD, as usual
Jun 10 15:53:08 <Estel_> <DocScrutinizer06> fasta: and obviously you ran into a busybox-power incompatibility/bug in busybox-ls that has potential to also cause bootloop or other severe issues 
Jun 10 15:53:11 <Estel_> couldn't be more wrong.
Jun 10 15:56:39 <andre__> and of course Estel_ is bitching about it, as usual.
Jun 10 15:56:48 <Estel_> andre__, any argument?
Jun 10 15:56:55 <DocScrutinizer06> andre__: thanks!
Jun 10 15:57:17 <Estel_> to prove incompatibility and busybox-ls?
Jun 10 15:57:25 <Estel_> or You're just trolling around?
Jun 10 15:57:26 <andre__> Estel_, sorry, I don't hand out arguments if you miss any.
Jun 10 15:57:35 <Estel_> oh, of course
Jun 10 15:57:49 <Estel_> You sound very reliably ;)
Jun 10 15:58:11 <andre__> :-*, honey :)
Jun 10 15:58:43 <Estel_> anyway, there are *no* compatibility problems in busybox-power, at all. There *was* - long time ago - minor issue with SU, but it was fixed as soon as reported.
Jun 10 15:58:55 <Estel_> such FUD is disregard for hard work iDont put into busybox-power
Jun 10 15:58:56 <DocScrutinizer06> a simple /whois would teach reasonable adults about supoosed competence
Jun 10 15:59:33 <Estel_> in fact, it's bastardish disrespect, as - obviously - people criticizing don't have clue about busybox-power at all
Jun 10 16:00:06 <andre__> Estel_, you're really not in a position to complain about missing disrespect
Jun 10 16:00:13 <Estel_> not to mean andre__, who, probably, doesn't have a clue about topic of discussion at all, but is trolling just for sake of it ;)
Jun 10 16:00:31 <DocScrutinizer06> @chanop: please calm channel, please control adultery and insult!
Jun 10 16:00:33 <Estel_> andre__, fine, put this meaningless sentenc einto Your | and smoke it - as, as usual, you don't have *any* argument to prove Your thesis
Jun 10 16:00:44 <andre__> Estel_, correct! I just dislike your unfriendly, rude, childish style.
Jun 10 16:00:46 <Estel_> You're defending FUD about busybox-powe,r yet, You don't even know what we're talking abouty.
Jun 10 16:01:15 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, please consider fact, that any chanel abuse form Your side will be Your last action as channel operator.
Jun 10 16:01:16 <DocScrutinizer06> s/adultery and//
Jun 10 16:01:17 <infobot> DocScrutinizer06 meant: @chanop: please calm channel, please control  insult!
Jun 10 16:01:23 <Estel_> we're discussing about merits
Jun 10 16:01:34 <andre__> Estel_, if you had arguments, you would have a better and more convincing way to communicate them. My meta-conclusions, so to say.
Jun 10 16:01:47 <andre__> Estel_, no problem, I also have channel op rights ;)
Jun 10 16:01:58 <Estel_> of course. as soon as anyone is going to make any *argument* why busybox-power is incompatible...
Jun 10 16:02:07 <Estel_> i'll gladly respon in tech answer
Jun 10 16:02:13 <Estel_> or, agree, if it will be proved to be true
Jun 10 16:02:24 <andre__> Cheers!
Jun 10 16:02:34 <Estel_> instead, we have pathetic troll, that appear here out of nowhere, saying "xx is bitching again", without any interest in actual topic of discussion
Jun 10 16:02:38 <Estel_> yea, cheer
Jun 10 16:02:44 <Estel_> it's all You can do, anyway
Jun 10 16:03:20 <andre__> Estel_, true, I'm just interested in some basic etiquette that you miss - you've shown that often enough.
Jun 10 16:03:29 <Estel_> I'm friendly for everyone, who like to have a civilized, merit discussion, and I don't plan to be friendly for trolls, jumping here and calling names, just because there is occasion to.
Jun 10 16:03:31 <andre__> and that's harmful for this community.
Jun 10 16:03:34 <andre__> ROFL
Jun 10 16:03:45 <andre__> yeah. sure.
Jun 10 16:03:47 <DocScrutinizer06> andre__: we're not supposed to act against Estel_as soon as his insults are diectly aimed against us (chanops)?
Jun 10 16:03:58 <Estel_> well, so enjoy fact that I've same opinion about You, + your complete lack of merit - writing for sake of writing.
Jun 10 16:04:00 <Estel_> Deal?
Jun 10 16:04:02 <DocScrutinizer06> sane policy indeed
Jun 10 16:05:02 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, Your constant alusions to abusing chanop, jsut because it's what You would liek to do now - yet, are to scarred to try - are ensuring me, that cleaning IRC management is even more urgent think, that I though before.
Jun 10 16:05:34 <Estel_> You may be considered main (by terms of availability) chanop here, yet, You completely fail to diverse Your persopnal disagreements with users from Your chanop duties.
Jun 10 16:08:05 <Estel_> just for the sake of it, I'm going to quote those lines about "suppoosed" incompatibility in busybox-power and ask iDont - busybox-power developer - about it
Jun 10 16:08:31 <Estel_> after all, it's harmful for the community, that such FUD is spread on official channel, by chanop (that mention 6 or 7 times during discussion, that he IS chanop)
Jun 10 16:09:26 <andre__> Let's admit that we all 3 have ego problems, as a start :)
Jun 10 16:09:40 <DocScrutinizer06> popcorn! anybody want popcorn?
Jun 10 16:10:29 <andre__> I could offer a beer from the minibar too!
Jun 10 16:10:38 <DocScrutinizer06> :-d
Jun 10 16:10:42 <DocScrutinizer06> :-D
Jun 10 16:25:08 * DocScrutinizer06 summons crashanddie
Jun 10 16:25:45 <DocScrutinizer06> we'd need some of his tough chan moderation nowadays
Jun 10 17:36:48 <fasta> When I play a .mp4 file with kmplayer, the video lags behind the audio by a lot.
Jun 10 17:36:57 <fasta> It seems that it cannot keep up.
Jun 10 17:37:08 <fasta> Is there something better?
Jun 10 17:37:23 <fasta> Also, in kmplayer, how can I delete something from favourites?
Jun 10 17:39:01 <fasta> Or is there some app to autoconvert to avi?
Jun 10 17:44:13 <DocScrutinizer05> fasta: (something better) I think the default medaiplayer does a decent job
Jun 10 17:44:40 <fasta> DocScrutinizer05: the media player says it doesn't understand the way the file is organized.
Jun 10 17:44:48 <fasta> DocScrutinizer05: i.e. it doesn't play at all.
Jun 10 17:44:48 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm
Jun 10 17:45:01 <fasta> DocScrutinizer05: I cp'ed the file to my desktop and can now see the codec, I hope.
Jun 10 17:45:38 <DocScrutinizer05> there's a couple of additional gtreamer codec pkgs
Jun 10 17:45:42 <DocScrutinizer05> might help
Jun 10 17:46:01 <fasta> DocScrutinizer05:  VIDEO:  [H264]  1280x720  24bpp  90000.000 fps  11965.5 kbps (1460.6 kbyte/s)
Jun 10 17:46:03 <DocScrutinizer05> though I'm not sure if maemo-mediaplayer would profit
Jun 10 17:46:40 <fasta> DocScrutinizer05: any chance that will work?
Jun 10 17:46:40 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, 1280*720 is quite a bit
Jun 10 17:46:52 <DocScrutinizer05> honestly I don't know
Jun 10 17:47:22 <fasta> DocScrutinizer05: is there any hw accel. for that?
Jun 10 17:47:33 <fasta> DocScrutinizer05: it's the kind of video modern phones generate.
Jun 10 17:47:34 <DocScrutinizer05> usually there should, yes
Jun 10 17:47:48 <DocScrutinizer05> afaik
Jun 10 17:48:00 <fasta> In this case not, like I said.
Jun 10 17:48:38 <fasta> Searching for codec in HAM => nothing
Jun 10 17:48:44 <DocScrutinizer05> there are others around that are way more knowlegable than me regarding this media stuff
Jun 10 17:49:53 <DocScrutinizer05> apt-cache search gstreamer0.10-plugins
Jun 10 17:53:09 <fasta> I didn't have those.
Jun 10 17:53:12 <fasta> Now I do.
Jun 10 17:54:08 <fasta> Any reason to believe it makes a difference?
Jun 10 17:54:46 <fasta> That made no difference.
Jun 10 18:07:44 <fasta> DocScrutinizer05: one of those gstreamer packages is broken now
Jun 10 18:09:06 <DocScrutinizer05> fasta: honestly, I'm not competent regarding video codecs etc
Jun 10 18:09:12 <fasta> DocScrutinizer05: http://paste.kde.org/496802/
Jun 10 18:09:25 <DocScrutinizer05> all I seem to know is mediaplayer is using mafw
Jun 10 18:09:31 <fasta> DocScrutinizer05: that's apt-get -f install output now
Jun 10 18:09:43 <fasta> mafw?
Jun 10 18:10:07 <fasta> So, basically it cannot install because some other package was already installed.
Jun 10 18:10:21 <fasta> But I also cannot remove it, because lots of other stuff depends on it.
Jun 10 18:10:23 <fasta> Real nice.
Jun 10 18:10:27 <fasta> :/
Jun 10 18:10:44 <DocScrutinizer05> medai application framework
Jun 10 18:10:59 <fasta> DocScrutinizer05: ?
Jun 10 18:11:03 <fasta> Ok
Jun 10 18:11:19 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Multimedia_Components/Media_Application_Framework_(MAFW)
Jun 10 18:11:29 <fasta> DocScrutinizer05: but regarding apt-get specifics?
Jun 10 18:11:39 <DocScrutinizer05> no idea, sorry
Jun 10 18:11:41 <fasta> All I would like now is to get it in a sane state again.
Jun 10 18:12:49 <fasta> DocScrutinizer05: I fixed it myself.
Jun 10 18:13:46 <fasta> DocScrutinizer05: but what do you do when you get a high-bit rate video from someone? 
Jun 10 18:13:53 <fasta> DocScrutinizer05: just don't play it on your phone?
Jun 10 18:14:11 <DocScrutinizer05> :shrug:
Jun 10 18:14:42 <DocScrutinizer05> if you find the definitive answer to this question, please let me know
Jun 10 18:16:25 <DocScrutinizer05> AIUI the decoding of high-bitrate HD video is quite heavy and thus can't get done on N900, even if you would assume it to scale to N900 screen/video compatible format after decoding
Jun 10 18:16:48 <DocScrutinizer05> can't get done in realtime, that is
Jun 10 18:17:10 <fasta> Well, I wouldn't mind waiting, as long as it's done in the background.
Jun 10 18:18:16 <DocScrutinizer05> I think there are quite a number of transcoders available, that would process like a few seconds per minute, and eventually provide a 480*800 video file
Jun 10 18:18:54 <DocScrutinizer05> I never looked into all that
Jun 10 18:19:10 <DocScrutinizer05> not even on desktop PC
Jun 10 18:19:16 <fasta> Handbrake also doesn't compile out of the box.
Jun 10 18:19:39 <fasta> I wonder what people find so hard about creating something that works on generic Linux.
Jun 10 18:19:47 <fasta> From my experience it's pretty easy.
Jun 10 18:24:27 <DocScrutinizer05> who's finding what?
Jun 10 18:29:25 <DocScrutinizer05> dang, I already thought looking at chanlog would help I understand why you post that statement. But there's no hidden statement claiming "it's not a simple thing to create working stuff on generic linux"
Jun 10 18:29:43 <DocScrutinizer05> s/I/me/.
Jun 10 18:32:05 <fasta> DocScrutinizer05: the people who release Handbrake source code.
Jun 10 18:38:33 <DocScrutinizer05> fasta: (regarding what to do when somebody sends you high-bitrate video) either the one sending this to you thought you should watch it on a 54" HD screen, or it's been a noob who sent it. In the latter case I tend to process on it like I do with inadvertedly sent in .doc files or HTML-only mails. Reject and/or delete
Jun 10 19:38:16 <fasta> DocScrutinizer05: well, the words of the n00b would probably be 'buy a decent phone then' ;)
Jun 10 19:39:25 <DocScrutinizer05> :shrug:
Jun 10 19:39:51 <DocScrutinizer05> noobs alrready asked me if I don't finally want to get a smartphone instead my Nokia N900
Jun 10 19:40:03 <robbiethe1st> But why?
Jun 10 19:40:12 <luke-jr> lol
Jun 10 19:40:20 <robbiethe1st> Who wants a /smartphone/ anyway?
Jun 10 19:40:48 <robbiethe1st> Seems silly. a Micro-PC(with phone functionality) is /far/ better.
Jun 10 19:41:01 <freemangordon> but wouldn't it make you smarter(smartphone I mean)? :P
Jun 10 19:41:14 <robbiethe1st> Nah, it /steals/ your smarts.
Jun 10 19:41:25 <robbiethe1st> It is smart so you don't have to be.
Jun 10 19:41:38 <fasta> But if you jailbreak an android phone, can't you also just put some random OS on it?
Jun 10 19:41:59 <fasta> E.g. Ubuntu.
Jun 10 19:42:17 <robbiethe1st> Not really.
Jun 10 19:42:21 <fasta> I thought Ubuntu was trying to do those kinds of things.
Jun 10 19:42:38 <robbiethe1st> Trying, yes. But so far, I've not seen something as good as Maemo
Jun 10 19:42:51 <freemangordon> AFAIK ubuntu has only OMAP3/4 builds (besides x86)
Jun 10 19:43:10 <robbiethe1st> Between closed driver blobs, Ubuntu aiming for a hybrid design that still runs Android at the phone level...
Jun 10 19:43:58 <freemangordon> BTW guys thumb2 season is open http://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/community-thumb/
Jun 10 19:44:07 <fasta> I think the hard parts of a phone work really good in Maemo, but the software isn't really _that_ great.
Jun 10 19:44:12 <robbiethe1st> Maby when Allwinner comes out with an A9 derivitive, we'll have a better solution - Their A10(which is a Cortex A8 derivitive) is an excellent chip, OSS friendly.
Jun 10 19:44:14 <Sc0rpius> I wonder why my browser has become slow with time
Jun 10 19:44:19 <fasta> or rather on an n900.
Jun 10 19:44:28 <robbiethe1st> Nah, hardware's lacking with the N900
Jun 10 19:44:33 <Sc0rpius> I mean I type a URL in microB and it takes a long time even to start DNSing it and downloading it
Jun 10 19:44:44 <Sc0rpius> it wasn't like that when my phone was new :(
Jun 10 19:44:46 <freemangordon> Sc0rpius: the same here, very strange
Jun 10 19:45:02 <Sc0rpius> I hope it doesn't have something to do with CSSU...
Jun 10 19:45:08 <freemangordon> i've cleaned all of the offline storage, no use
Jun 10 19:45:13 <freemangordon> shouldn't have
Jun 10 19:45:17 <fasta> robbiethe1st: sure, it's underpowered, but it doesn't seem to have major bugs.
Jun 10 19:45:19 <robbiethe1st> Personally, I've been running OC'd to 900mhz, with PR1.3 and swappolube; helps emencely
Jun 10 19:45:37 <fasta> swappolube, what a name.
Jun 10 19:45:38 <freemangordon> my syster has CSSU too, microb is fast on her n900
Jun 10 19:45:40 <robbiethe1st> That is true. Only real HW bug is the USB port.
Jun 10 19:46:11 <freemangordon> Sc0rpius: though I am not sure whether she has adblock installed
Jun 10 19:46:40 <Sc0rpius> I do have it installed
Jun 10 19:46:44 <freemangordon> me too
Jun 10 19:46:48 <Sc0rpius> but I have always have it installed
Jun 10 19:46:56 <Sc0rpius> since I bought the phone
Jun 10 19:47:03 <Sc0rpius> it was one of the first things I installed
Jun 10 19:47:10 <freemangordon> the same here, but that was first that come to my mind
Jun 10 19:47:29 <Sc0rpius> you wiped history and stuff?
Jun 10 19:47:35 <freemangordon> yep
Jun 10 19:47:45 <freemangordon> no difference
Jun 10 19:48:05 <freemangordon> and I can bet it has something to do with DNS
Jun 10 19:48:11 <freemangordon> but NFC what
Jun 10 19:48:38 <robbiethe1st> Try editing /etc/resolv.conf, comment out everything and add
Jun 10 19:48:42 <robbiethe1st> nameserver 8.8.8.8
Jun 10 19:48:47 <robbiethe1st> to a new line
Jun 10 19:48:56 <freemangordon> robbiethe1st: there is no /etc/resolv.conf
Jun 10 19:49:09 <freemangordon> it is dnsmasq.conf
Jun 10 19:49:50 <robbiethe1st> May be a CSSU thing then
Jun 10 19:49:59 <freemangordon> or KP?
Jun 10 19:50:00 <robbiethe1st> Mine has a resolv.conf
Jun 10 19:50:04 <freemangordon> meh
Jun 10 19:50:05 <robbiethe1st> Nope, I run KP
Jun 10 19:50:20 <freemangordon> Read what I wrote, please
Jun 10 19:50:26 <freemangordon> re my sisters n900
Jun 10 19:51:27 <robbiethe1st> Bugs don't always act the same way
Jun 10 19:51:33 <freemangordon> It was me to setup her n900, almost the same as mine (CSSU-T, KP, swap on uSD, etc,etc)
Jun 10 19:52:02 <freemangordon> she uses different mobile network though
Jun 10 19:52:02 <Sc0rpius> it's not DNS related.  If I type the URL of my LAN web server using the IP it still takes an awful time to start connecting
Jun 10 19:52:36 <robbiethe1st> Have you tried restarting microb? run killall browser; killall browserd
Jun 10 19:52:58 <Sc0rpius> I tried even rebooting the phone
Jun 10 19:53:15 <freemangordon> robbiethe1st: You can bet me and Sc0rpius even rebooted
Jun 10 19:53:17 <freemangordon> yeah
Jun 10 19:53:19 <Sc0rpius> but it takes LONG time, like 40 seconds or up to a minute to start connecting
Jun 10 19:53:25 <freemangordon> :nod:
Jun 10 19:53:27 <freemangordon> the same here
Jun 10 19:53:32 <Sc0rpius> after it connects, it downloads fine
Jun 10 19:53:40 <freemangordon> exactly
Jun 10 19:53:59 <robbiethe1st> Don't have the problem myself, but I have had it seemingly not connect occasionally
Jun 10 19:54:09 <robbiethe1st> But I've never let it sit for 40sec to see if it does
Jun 10 19:54:26 <robbiethe1st> I'll just killall browser/browserd, and when the app restarts it works fine
Jun 10 19:54:34 * freemangordon starts tcpdump on usb0
Jun 10 19:58:57 <DocScrutinizer05>  /etc/resov.conf is meant to point to 128.0.0.1 *always*
Jun 10 19:59:06 <DocScrutinizer05> dnsmasq does the real work
Jun 10 20:00:04 <DocScrutinizer05> regarding delay on even stratup: that's exactly what I experience on this Laptop with fresh Linux install as well, already wondered if it's related to Ipv6 or sth
Jun 10 20:00:28 <DocScrutinizer05> exctla those 40s Sc0rpius sees
Jun 10 20:00:33 <DocScrutinizer05> exactly
Jun 10 20:00:46 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer: could be
Jun 10 20:01:15 <DocScrutinizer05> I already tried to whireshark the issue, no results yet
Jun 10 20:01:33 <MohammadAG> 128.0.0.1? :P
Jun 10 20:02:03 <freemangordon> :D
Jun 10 20:02:15 <freemangordon> that is second localhost :P
Jun 10 20:02:41 <Sc0rpius> /etc/resolv.conf should point to 127.0.0.1 in Maemo???
Jun 10 20:02:50 <freemangordon> no
Jun 10 20:02:53 <freemangordon> AFAIK
Jun 10 20:03:03 <Sc0rpius> no way there's no named in Maemo.
Jun 10 20:03:21 <freemangordon> Nokia-N900:~# ps | grep named
Jun 10 20:03:21 <freemangordon>  3137 root      2088 S    grep named
Jun 10 20:03:59 <Sc0rpius> but it works though...
Jun 10 20:04:10 <Sc0rpius> Server:    127.0.0.1
Jun 10 20:04:11 <Sc0rpius> Address 1: 127.0.0.1 Nokia-N900-51-1
Jun 10 20:04:11 <Sc0rpius> Name:      www.sun.com
Jun 10 20:04:11 <Sc0rpius> Address 1: 137.254.16.113 bigip-www-legacy-sun-cms-adc.oracle.com
Jun 10 20:05:06 <Sc0rpius> but that doesn't fix the issue, it still takes time to connect
Jun 10 20:05:13 <Sc0rpius> I really wonder what it is...
Jun 10 20:06:51 <freemangordon> hmm, I am seeing a massive UDP packet bursts to tenths of ip dresses
Jun 10 20:06:56 <freemangordon> *addresses
Jun 10 20:09:04 <freemangordon> very strange, it takes exactly 15 seconds for the start of the bursts and first SYN to TMO
Jun 10 20:09:14 <freemangordon> s/for/from
Jun 10 20:11:05 <Sc0rpius> 37 seconds here and browserd was +90% CPU during all that time
Jun 10 20:11:38 <freemangordon> yep, almost the same here
Jun 10 20:12:00 <freemangordon> going to check if "clear private data" actually clears the database
Jun 10 20:15:07 <DocScrutinizer05> IroN900:~# cat /etc/resolv.conf 
Jun 10 20:15:08 <DocScrutinizer05> nameserver 127.0.0.1
Jun 10 20:15:47 <freemangordon> aah, my bad, the same here
Jun 10 20:16:02 <Sc0rpius> try this:
Jun 10 20:16:14 <DocScrutinizer05> IroN900:~# ps|grep dns
Jun 10 20:16:15 <DocScrutinizer05>  1650 nobody    2160 S    /usr/sbin/dnsmasq -k -i lo -a 127.0.0.1 -z 
Jun 10 20:16:19 <Sc0rpius> Options -> AddOns -> disable adblock, restart microb (there's a button for that)
Jun 10 20:16:36 <freemangordon> i've tried it, no luck
Jun 10 20:16:47 <freemangordon> did it help you?
Jun 10 20:16:53 <Sc0rpius> hmm
Jun 10 20:16:53 <Sc0rpius> yeah same here
Jun 10 20:16:53 <Sc0rpius> no.
Jun 10 20:17:06 <Sc0rpius> well maybe a little
Jun 10 20:17:57 <Sc0rpius> it definitely went down from 40 seconds to 5
Jun 10 20:18:02 <Sc0rpius> though 5 is still high hehe
Jun 10 20:18:18 <freemangordon> hmm, let me trey once again then
Jun 10 20:18:21 <freemangordon> *try
Jun 10 20:18:45 <DocScrutinizer05> no adblock though on my Lenovo T500 in konqueror
Jun 10 20:20:28 <freemangordon> Sc0rpius: it is deffinitely adblockplus :(
Jun 10 20:20:41 <freemangordon> or whatever it is called
Jun 10 20:20:49 <DocScrutinizer05> and actually I don't encounter this annoying 40s delay not always, but rather seemingly on a somewhat random basis
Jun 10 20:20:50 <Sc0rpius> yeah looks like that
Jun 10 20:21:03 <Sc0rpius> DocScrutinizer05, are you using AdBlock?
Jun 10 20:21:07 <DocScrutinizer05> no
Jun 10 20:21:13 <freemangordon> more bugs, gimme more bugs :D:D:D
Jun 10 20:21:44 <DocScrutinizer05> though, I dunno what got installed on this fresh suse21.1
Jun 10 20:21:47 <DocScrutinizer05> 12.1
Jun 10 20:21:58 <Sc0rpius> don't you wanna be a good soul and port AdBlock to microB in a lightweight manner? :)
Jun 10 20:22:04 <freemangordon> Sc0rpius: today when I tried to disable adblock, I was connected to a crappy 2g network ;)
Jun 10 20:22:13 <freemangordon> Sc0rpius: me?
Jun 10 20:22:18 <Sc0rpius> the first time I tried it I didn't clear private data
Jun 10 20:22:23 <Sc0rpius> so I'm not sure if it's a mix of the two
Jun 10 20:22:26 <Sc0rpius> yeah you
Jun 10 20:22:31 <freemangordon> hehe
Jun 10 20:22:37 <Sc0rpius> you want bugs I'm giving you a nice project
Jun 10 20:22:39 <Sc0rpius> hehe
Jun 10 20:22:45 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm quite sure it's related to some rogue URL or IP or script embedded in some pages
Jun 10 20:22:47 <freemangordon> some crappy JS?
Jun 10 20:23:02 <DocScrutinizer05> something like that
Jun 10 20:23:06 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: that happens when openning TMO
Jun 10 20:23:13 <DocScrutinizer05> same
Jun 10 20:23:19 <freemangordon> with JS disabled in browaser
Jun 10 20:23:21 <DocScrutinizer05> sometimes dely, usually not
Jun 10 20:23:24 <DocScrutinizer05> delay
Jun 10 20:24:05 <DocScrutinizer05> on Laptop, all my comments are related to x86 suse12.1 linux
Jun 10 20:25:08 <freemangordon> hmm, lets ask google
Jun 10 20:30:27 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, I'm missing the direct setting for java, JS, and cache policy under konqueror extras
Jun 10 20:31:07 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway I just disabled java and had no delay for 10 pages I opened since. Not enough to claim any relevance
Jun 10 20:41:33 <freemangordon> Sc0rpius: WTF? patterns.ini that comes with adblockplus package is 78k, the current one is about 560k
Jun 10 20:47:49 <ThreeM> Sc0rpius = the "Yappari" Sc0rpius?
Jun 10 20:48:49 <freemangordon> yep
Jun 10 20:54:51 <Sc0rpius> hmm
Jun 10 20:54:53 <Sc0rpius> yes I am
Jun 10 20:55:00 <Sc0rpius> that's an interesting finding freemangordon 
Jun 10 20:55:10 <Sc0rpius> didn't knew it actually updates itself
Jun 10 20:55:28 <freemangordon> WOW, I've forgotten how fast is microb, damn, stupid ADP
Jun 10 20:56:20 <freemangordon> Sc0rpius: yeah, didn't know it as well
Jun 10 20:57:52 <DocScrutinizer05> so... ?
Jun 10 20:57:53 <Sc0rpius> yeah it's pretty fast.
Jun 10 20:58:17 * DocScrutinizer05 likes to pop stack and move return code to storage
Jun 10 20:58:37 <DocScrutinizer05> means: any results?
Jun 10 20:58:44 <freemangordon> so.. ADB puts microb on its knees
Jun 10 20:58:53 <DocScrutinizer05> mhm
Jun 10 20:59:04 <Sc0rpius> we could try with a tiny patterns.ini version
Jun 10 20:59:14 <Sc0rpius> but I dunno, the difference is really huge
Jun 10 20:59:23 <freemangordon> alreadyt tried it, the one from distribution
Jun 10 20:59:30 <Sc0rpius> it actually even behaves faster with all those flash ads with animations than with ADB
Jun 10 20:59:32 <DocScrutinizer05> just that I fail to see how I could have ADB on my suse linux in konqueror. How would I check that?
Jun 10 20:59:52 <Sc0rpius> Konqueror? I don't think that's capable of having ADB
Jun 10 20:59:56 <freemangordon> aon startp it's been renamed to .bak, and a new one with only 178 bytes was created
Jun 10 21:00:25 <freemangordon> NFC how it updates is blacklist
Jun 10 21:00:33 <freemangordon> going to reinstall ABD
Jun 10 21:01:01 <DocScrutinizer05> abd?
Jun 10 21:01:09 <freemangordon> ABP
Jun 10 21:01:12 <DocScrutinizer05> adb?
Jun 10 21:01:21 <freemangordon> :D:D:D
Jun 10 21:01:24 <freemangordon> naah
Jun 10 21:01:34 <freemangordon> no android crap here :P
Jun 10 21:01:38 <Sc0rpius> hahaha
Jun 10 21:02:10 <DocScrutinizer05> so we're still talking about AddBlock+?
Jun 10 21:02:13 <Sc0rpius> we.ñ
Jun 10 21:02:15 <Sc0rpius> we..
Jun 10 21:02:25 <Sc0rpius> :S
Jun 10 21:02:29 <Sc0rpius> I can't even type
Jun 10 21:02:54 <freemangordon> apt-get install --reinstall adblock-plus-1.0 does the job
Jun 10 21:03:06 <freemangordon> Sc0rpius: could you rty it?
Jun 10 21:03:09 <freemangordon> *try
Jun 10 21:03:11 <DocScrutinizer05> and I assume ADP and ADB and ABD are all synonyms for AddBlock+?
Jun 10 21:03:22 <freemangordon> twas a typo
Jun 10 21:03:35 <freemangordon> ADB i mean
Jun 10 21:03:52 <freemangordon> and yes, we're talking about AddBlock+
Jun 10 21:04:41 <Sc0rpius> I could try, but it'll update patterns.ini anyway
Jun 10 21:04:46 <Sc0rpius> eventually
Jun 10 21:04:50 <freemangordon> Sc0rpius: how?
Jun 10 21:05:00 <freemangordon> where you will get them from?
Jun 10 21:05:02 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd like to believe it's been Java/JRE here, in konqueror
Jun 10 21:05:23 <DocScrutinizer05> or this friggin flash11-plugin?
Jun 10 21:05:25 <Sc0rpius> it automatically does it, if you see where your patterns.ini is, you'll see different backups from different versions every time it updated itself
Jun 10 21:05:28 <Sc0rpius> and it seems to be once a day
Jun 10 21:06:08 <freemangordon> Sc0rpius: but it won't help then, tomorrow my microb will be screwed up again
Jun 10 21:06:13 <Sc0rpius> yes.
Jun 10 21:06:18 <Sc0rpius> unless we figure out how to disable that
Jun 10 21:06:46 <freemangordon> sigh
Jun 10 21:06:49 <Sc0rpius> which I believe you can
Jun 10 21:07:04 <freemangordon> lets again ask google :)
Jun 10 21:07:58 <Sc0rpius> there's a Preferences button for Adblock
Jun 10 21:08:24 <freemangordon> yeah, opens another not very useful window
Jun 10 21:12:38 <freemangordon> Sc0rpius: that option is added in last ADP version (2.03) which is not available for microb
Jun 10 21:12:52 <freemangordon> (disable automatic updates)
Jun 10 21:13:08 <Sc0rpius> :S
Jun 10 21:13:28 <Sc0rpius> then I'm not using Adblock Plus.  Anyway I don't visit websites with too much ads using the N900
Jun 10 21:13:40 <Sc0rpius> I need it to be fast more than to be clean
Jun 10 21:13:50 <vi_> FWIW noscript works on microb.
Jun 10 21:13:50 <freemangordon> yeah :S
Jun 10 21:13:51 <Sc0rpius> since I can't have both :(
Jun 10 21:14:04 <freemangordon> vi_: what is that?
Jun 10 21:14:15 <robbiethe1st> I use the flash "clickToRun" thing
Jun 10 21:14:20 <vi_> You could also use a small hosts adblock without ABP overheads.
Jun 10 21:14:27 <robbiethe1st> works /excellently/ for keeping MicroB fast.
Jun 10 21:14:28 <vi_> robbiethe1st: I use that too.
Jun 10 21:14:46 <Sc0rpius> you mean settings 127.0.0.1 to in /etc/hosts to ads sites?
Jun 10 21:14:49 <Sc0rpius> setting
Jun 10 21:14:50 <vi_> freemangordon: noscript disables ALL scripting of all everykind except on pages you whhitelist.
Jun 10 21:15:00 <vi_> Helps keep things snappy.
Jun 10 21:15:16 <freemangordon> it is in repos?
Jun 10 21:15:36 <vi_> No, you have to go 'find it' from the firefox plugins web page.
Jun 10 21:15:41 <freemangordon> aah, ok
Jun 10 21:16:36 <vi_> And yes ABP is a massive hog.
Jun 10 21:18:31 <vi_> http://tlvince.com/2010/08/02/hosts-adblock/
Jun 10 21:19:33 <freemangordon> vi_: 10x
Jun 10 21:26:43 <freemangordon> hmm, installed ABP 1.3.10 from mozzula website, so far everything is snappy
Jun 10 21:28:19 <freemangordon> unfortunately does not seem to work
Jun 10 21:28:22 <vi_> lols
Jun 10 21:28:31 <vi_> did you killall browserd?
Jun 10 21:28:34 <freemangordon> yep
Jun 10 21:28:39 <vi_> mmm
Jun 10 21:28:50 <freemangordon> it is listed as plugin on addons page
Jun 10 21:28:55 <freemangordon> let me restart the device
Jun 10 21:29:01 <vi_> noooooo
Jun 10 21:29:05 <vi_> your uptime!
Jun 10 21:29:12 <freemangordon> don't care
Jun 10 21:29:15 <freemangordon> :)
Jun 10 21:31:50 <freemangordon> hmm, seems to work after the restart
Jun 10 21:32:33 <freemangordon> Sc0rpius: seems ABP updates every 5 days
Jun 10 21:33:00 <Sc0rpius> it sucks.
Jun 10 21:33:42 <freemangordon> don;t see any speed difference between 1.02 and 1.3.10 though
Jun 10 21:34:25 <freemangordon> takes 10 seconds until TMO starts to download :(
Jun 10 21:34:59 <freemangordon> but that is only for the first site, after that everything is snappy
Jun 10 21:35:14 <vi_> and you were wondering who ate your ram?
Jun 10 21:35:22 <freemangordon> yeah :D
Jun 10 21:39:40 <freemangordon> but 1.3.10 seems much better than 1.02, lets see how it will be after blacklist update
Jun 10 21:40:19 <vi_> you could perhaps configure it to use the fanboy super light weight block list as oppose to easy ist?
Jun 10 21:40:31 <vi_> ^list
Jun 10 21:40:44 <vi_> That might yield a speed inprovment.
Jun 10 21:41:12 <freemangordon> yeah, if the full list slows it again i will google for some light list
Jun 10 21:41:59 <vi_> fanboy is your man
Jun 10 21:43:03 <vi_> Fucking Rockoil SVI.
Jun 10 21:43:20 <vi_> Their 5wt is as heavy as amsol 10wt.
Jun 10 21:43:35 <vi_> Their 2.5wt is piss.
Jun 10 21:43:57 <ThreeM> Sc0rpius so big thx for yappari. now my friends cannot anoy me anymore why im not using whatsapp ;)
Jun 10 21:44:29 <vi_> Why are you using whatsapp?
Jun 10 21:44:38 <vi_> What about the 1 year cost?
Jun 10 21:45:04 <Sc0rpius> ThreeM, thanks to you for testing it out :)
Jun 10 21:45:07 <ThreeM> cause im forced by my friends :/
Jun 10 21:45:33 <ThreeM> dont answr to sms anymore and such
Jun 10 21:45:39 <Sc0rpius> after a year we either pay or.... (I'll leave it as a surprise in a year)
Jun 10 21:45:53 <Sc0rpius> bu there's a "way"
Jun 10 21:46:47 <ThreeM> yappari works good so long, and dont drain battery. chat works. thats all i expected :)
Jun 10 21:47:31 <ThreeM> after i edit the yappari.conf and add cc+phonenumer to the phonenumer field
Jun 10 21:48:07 <wmarone> yappari? :> nice name
Jun 10 21:49:26 <Sc0rpius> that's a bug some people have.  It's fixed in the current release
Jun 10 21:49:29 <Sc0rpius> well if you speak japanese
Jun 10 21:49:49 <Sc0rpius> when you (used to ) ask a Japanese: "there's no Whatsapp for N900" (in japanese of course)
Jun 10 21:49:55 <Sc0rpius> he would say "yappari..." as "I knew it"
Jun 10 21:50:03 <wmarone> hehe
Jun 10 21:50:05 <Sc0rpius> and since it has "app" in between
Jun 10 21:50:16 <Sc0rpius> it makes a funny pun for the japanese
Jun 10 21:56:30 <DocScrutinizer05> whatsapp, the hugest scam of the last 5 years
Jun 10 21:57:46 <nox-> hm they charge for jabber?  or whats the thing?
Jun 10 21:58:00 <DocScrutinizer05> a few years ago it's been the skype hype, not whatsapp
Jun 10 21:59:17 <DocScrutinizer05> nox-: that's what I understood it is
Jun 10 21:59:39 <nox-> oh well...
Jun 10 22:00:45 <DocScrutinizer05> another service offering for free what's been around for free since years but not been marketed that agressively, and skimming the user data and eventually throw in "added value" the user has to pay for
Jun 10 22:04:06 <Sc0rpius> Whatsapp actually already have all the contact information of the planet
Jun 10 22:04:08 <Sc0rpius> including yours
Jun 10 22:04:24 <Sc0rpius> you just need to be in the address book of somebody who uses Whatsapp, that's all.
Jun 10 22:04:31 <Sc0rpius> and I'm way too sure that you are in several of those .P
Jun 10 22:04:34 <Sc0rpius> :P
Jun 10 22:04:45 <DocScrutinizer05> me? definitely not
Jun 10 22:04:53 <Sc0rpius> you must have a friend who uses Whatsapp
Jun 10 22:05:00 <Sc0rpius> you just don't know
Jun 10 22:05:05 <DocScrutinizer05> no such "friends" here
Jun 10 22:05:16 <Sc0rpius> the whole address book of anybody who uses Whatsapp is uploaded
Jun 10 22:05:20 <robbiethe1st> Friend? what's that?
Jun 10 22:07:28 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer05: could not prevent friends of using it
Jun 10 22:07:36 <chem|st> from using it..
Jun 10 22:08:50 <chem|st> nox-: they even have a "second" app for doing calls
Jun 10 22:09:16 <chem|st> nox-: sry, they SELL a 2nd app... for doing calls^^
Jun 10 22:09:27 <nox-> oh well...
Jun 10 22:09:50 <DocScrutinizer05> LOL
Jun 10 22:10:16 <Estel_> freemangordon,  afaik adblock plus pattern list is optional
Jun 10 22:10:18 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer05: nothing to laugh about! sad story bro'
Jun 10 22:10:33 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed
Jun 10 22:10:46 <DocScrutinizer05> not particularly new a story though
Jun 10 22:10:49 <Estel_> i.e. it works by having patterns for most popular adds - for sake of installing and running out of the box
Jun 10 22:11:07 <Estel_> last time I've tried addblockplus it was possible to disable auto list...
Jun 10 22:11:14 <Estel_> and rely on Your own patterns
Jun 10 22:12:03 <Estel_> i.e. You see add -> You add it to list -> You don't see it again on that site
Jun 10 22:12:21 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer05: we had ICQ skype msn aolm and tons of other shit ppl all over the world use for some reason... all do the same... eat your soul
Jun 10 22:12:41 <Estel_> patterns try to block adds for whole world, they have to be ram hogs :P
Jun 10 22:13:04 <Estel_> vi_,  freemangordon, how are You installing mozilla addonds for microB from out of repos?
Jun 10 22:13:17 <Estel_> is it possible to install some old versions, or what?
Jun 10 22:13:19 <DocScrutinizer05> army of losers, yeah, a particularly nice one
Jun 10 22:14:45 <DocScrutinizer05> the average stupid is just too greedy to notice the ever same pattern, even after falling for it for the 10th or 20th time
Jun 10 22:15:07 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer05: it is a shame... also blocking foreign servers is the new style... looking at all those jabber servers restricting to "the one and only service you may use"
Jun 10 22:15:43 <DocScrutinizer05> chem|st: I just say SchuFa and Facebook - ROTFL
Jun 10 22:17:06 <DocScrutinizer05> every idiot and his dog are in FB, but when a credit profiling company announces they gonna read the FB data, it's national shock and awe
Jun 10 22:17:28 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer05: adding the CIA terrorist words-list to it and you may get a pretty fsckd database of people worth credit for weapons...
Jun 10 22:17:35 <freemangordon> Estel_: go to addons.mozilla.org and pick your one
Jun 10 22:17:48 <DocScrutinizer05> you really think they will stop doing that just because you whine "that's evil!"
Jun 10 22:18:27 <DocScrutinizer05> actually they already are harvesting your data off FB since very beginning
Jun 10 22:19:47 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer05: sure that is why I get afghan commercial banners all over the place, working place "afghan logistics and tours kabul" ever since :)
Jun 10 22:21:29 <chem|st> even my mom asked me to change it as she feared her swiss fb-friends to ask stupid questions^^
Jun 10 22:29:56 <Estel_> freemangordon,  and it's supposed to work?!
Jun 10 22:30:30 <Estel_> if yes, my yaw is going to drop and make big hole to the earth center
Jun 10 22:31:22 <Estel_> I always though our UI is incompatible
Jun 10 22:31:31 <Estel_> (microB UI)
Jun 10 22:38:07 <freemangordon> Estel_, at least ABP 1.3.10 works (though there is no "block" tab on flash animations)
Jun 10 22:38:07 <Estel_> freemangordon,  vi_, call me stupid, but I haven't had idea, that we're able to flawlessly install addons for microB...
Jun 10 22:38:14 <Estel_> I see
Jun 10 22:38:35 <Sc0rpius> we can't, at least not flawlessly
Jun 10 22:38:40 <Sc0rpius> there's always some kind of hack involved
Jun 10 22:38:55 <Sc0rpius> at least in my experience maybe nowadays is more n00b proof dunno
Jun 10 22:38:59 <Estel_> well, installed flagfox for test (small thing that show flag near address, to indicate country where server is, + show IP address on demand)
Jun 10 22:39:15 <Estel_> and obviously, as it relies on UI, it doesn't seem to work
Jun 10 22:39:24 <Estel_> although, probably, backend thing does
Jun 10 22:39:43 <Estel_> if i can find working spellcheckedr with switchable languages, I'm in heaven
Jun 10 22:42:55 <Estel_> freemangordon,  restarting after installation
Jun 10 22:43:12 <Estel_> only microB closing and opening, or killall browser needed?
Jun 10 22:43:16 <Estel_> or browserd?
Jun 10 22:43:41 <Estel_> sorry for pestering You with questions
Jun 10 22:43:58 <Estel_> it's just shock to me that we can try addons like that in microB
Jun 10 22:45:17 <freemangordon> killall browserd
Jun 10 22:45:19 <freemangordon> killall browser
Jun 10 22:46:05 * Estel_ nods
Jun 10 22:46:30 <Estel_> if lazarus form recovery and spellchecking are gonna work, I'm going officialy orgasmic
Jun 10 22:46:43 <Estel_> what do I need chromium for, then?
Jun 10 22:48:40 <luke-jr> why does Gitorious's wiki markup suck?
Jun 10 22:49:52 <luke-jr> Estel_: how's it look so far? :P https://gitorious.org/handheld-gentoo-overlays/pages/N900
Jun 10 22:52:40 <Estel_> luke-jr,  much better than before ;)
Jun 10 22:53:07 <Estel_> btw, small info - kernel power support ext4 for ages, so info about it being limited to ext3 is wrong
Jun 10 22:54:28 <RST38h> Hehe, since Nokia started upgrading Symbian Belle with Microsoft shit, the OS has become less stable
Jun 10 22:55:22 <Estel_> luke-jr,  also, You have typo in wifi section - "start GPRS interface"
Jun 10 22:55:42 <Estel_> overall, good beginning, I like it. Care to move it to Maemo wiki too?
Jun 10 22:55:44 <luke-jr> Estel_: what's the typo? O.o
Jun 10 22:55:53 <Estel_> oh, was it on purpose?
Jun 10 22:56:11 <luke-jr> what on purpose? O.o
Jun 10 22:56:13 <Estel_> I mean, start GPRS interface to run WiFi?
Jun 10 22:56:17 <luke-jr> oooooo
Jun 10 22:56:23 <luke-jr> thanks :P
Jun 10 22:56:26 <Estel_> np :P
Jun 10 22:56:40 <luke-jr> Maemo Wiki would probably make it easier (Gitorious markdown sucks), but does it really fit there?
Jun 10 22:56:46 <Estel_> see few lines ago, kernel-power reads ext4 without problems
Jun 10 22:56:48 <Estel_> of course
Jun 10 22:56:54 <Estel_> it fit there as hell
Jun 10 22:57:02 <luke-jr> Estel_: it reads/writes ext4 without a journal?
Jun 10 22:57:06 <Estel_> if ubuntu 12.04 fit there, why not gentoo
Jun 10 22:57:15 <luke-jr> lol
Jun 10 22:57:16 <Estel_> yea, it reads/write like desktop
Jun 10 22:57:32 <luke-jr> Estel_: I thought it was too old for that, unless someone backported it o.o
Jun 10 22:57:41 <Estel_> afaik yes
Jun 10 22:57:47 <luke-jr> hmm
Jun 10 22:58:02 <Estel_> kernel-power isn't 2.6.28 at all, in reality
Jun 10 22:58:06 <luke-jr> XD
Jun 10 22:58:09 <Estel_> considering all backports
Jun 10 22:58:37 <Estel_> btw hope Your subpage "modern kernel" is going to be full of magic too :P
Jun 10 22:58:40 <luke-jr> I'm not sure Gentoo's power kernel is completely up to date either - I think they've been doing a lot this year?
Jun 10 22:58:54 <Estel_> of course
Jun 10 22:59:05 <luke-jr> to write "Modern kernel", I'm going to have to start over with 3.4 or 3.5 :|
Jun 10 22:59:13 <Estel_> ;)
Jun 10 22:59:31 <Estel_> to take it serious, You should maintain proper gentoo branch of KP
Jun 10 22:59:40 <luke-jr> ?
Jun 10 22:59:54 <Estel_> unless You want to have PITA applying all gentoo changes to kp50
Jun 10 22:59:59 <luke-jr> not really anything special needed for Gentoo
Jun 10 23:00:01 <Estel_> and every next version
Jun 10 23:00:04 <Estel_> I see.
Jun 10 23:00:05 <luke-jr> gentoo's kernel is really just bugfixes
Jun 10 23:00:45 <luke-jr> it would be pretty awesome if I could get Maemo running inside LXC though
Jun 10 23:00:47 <Estel_> are You sure that those bugfixes were't included in KP separately? ;)
Jun 10 23:01:02 <luke-jr> Estel_: they are, which is why I don't see a point to any KP fork :p
Jun 10 23:01:35 <luke-jr> (and if I find any that aren't, it makes sense to put them to main KP too)
Jun 10 23:01:38 <Estel_> so for gentoo on N900, You may just use straight upstream kp50 flawlessly?
Jun 10 23:01:43 <luke-jr> right
Jun 10 23:01:43 <Estel_> yea
Jun 10 23:01:58 <luke-jr> using KP 49 right now
Jun 10 23:02:12 <luke-jr> only gotcha is, Gentoo needs it built with GCC 4.5
Jun 10 23:02:17 <Sc0rpius> I wonder if anyone knows here how to close the virtual keyboard in Qt or even GLIB works
Jun 10 23:02:24 <luke-jr> to build kernel modules against it
Jun 10 23:02:35 <Estel_> luke-jr,  why not GCC 4.6.2 like in Maemo?
Jun 10 23:02:42 <luke-jr> Estel_: it's not in Gentoo stable yet
Jun 10 23:02:55 <Estel_> I see
Jun 10 23:03:27 <luke-jr> when it gets promoted to Gentoo/ARM stable, it'll automatically work for N900 pretty much
Jun 10 23:03:48 <Estel_> damn, why microB text fields doesn't have right-click context menu
Jun 10 23:03:49 <luke-jr> (also, Gentoo is hardfp - not sure if that will affect kernel module linking or not)
Jun 10 23:04:10 <Estel_> I can right click on address bar and got nice context menu...
Jun 10 23:04:20 <Estel_> but on pages, it works onlhy for non-text
Jun 10 23:04:27 <luke-jr> >_<
Jun 10 23:04:33 <Estel_> and text context menu is where lazarus form recovery live :(
Jun 10 23:04:40 <Estel_> luke-jr,  no idea
Jun 10 23:04:49 <Estel_> and what about thumb?
Jun 10 23:05:11 <luke-jr> last I heard, N900's CPU is broken for thumb?
Jun 10 23:05:12 <Estel_> thumb2, precisely
Jun 10 23:05:26 <Estel_> last You've said that, I fixed You already :P
Jun 10 23:05:35 <Estel_> freemangordon fixed it.
Jun 10 23:05:39 <luke-jr> yeah, but CPUs don't fix themselves usually :p
Jun 10 23:05:50 <freemangordon> aaah, not again
Jun 10 23:05:54 <Estel_> freemangordon is like chuck norris
Jun 10 23:05:57 <luke-jr> O.o
Jun 10 23:06:01 <luke-jr> so it wasn't really broken?
Jun 10 23:06:05 <Estel_> he fixed every N900? cpu in universe
Jun 10 23:06:07 <freemangordon> it was
Jun 10 23:06:08 <Estel_> ;)
Jun 10 23:06:13 <Estel_> seriously though
Jun 10 23:06:19 <freemangordon> the errata is for real
Jun 10 23:06:24 <Estel_> he found proper way to include errata fix
Jun 10 23:06:31 <luke-jr> hmm
Jun 10 23:06:38 <freemangordon> mhm
Jun 10 23:06:42 <Estel_> hmpf
Jun 10 23:07:32 <Estel_> luke-jr,  use the force. It makes - thumb, not force - Your executables smaller in ram
Jun 10 23:07:39 <Estel_> consider that for gentoo in N900
Jun 10 23:07:43 <luke-jr> yes, that would be handy :P
Jun 10 23:08:27 <freemangordon> luke-jr: you can see thumb2 errata fix in action here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRUlJ2GXI04
Jun 10 23:08:51 <freemangordon> (Ubuntu 12.04 is thumb2 hardfp)
Jun 10 23:10:00 <luke-jr> nice
Jun 10 23:12:22 <Estel_> now most important question
Jun 10 23:12:54 <Estel_> any benefits from using Geento thumb2 hardfp over Ubuntu 12.04 with LXDE - or, other way around?
Jun 10 23:13:31 <Estel_> ...except for fact, that ubuntu was documented from very beginning, and, as a result, dozen of people are working on it, instead 1 person? :P
Jun 10 23:13:44 <Estel_> (while it was also started by 1 person)
Jun 10 23:14:50 <Estel_> no spell checker and no lazarus for microB, due to lack of right-clickable text fields :( No orgasm here
Jun 10 23:21:47 <Hurrian> Estel_, why not ubuntu-minimal then install lxde?
Jun 10 23:22:02 <Hurrian> ubuntu-desktop seems to pull in a crapload of extra stuff
Jun 10 23:22:17 <Estel_> sounds reasonable. I'm newbie in all those things, so I rely on documentation
Jun 10 23:22:32 <Estel_> those things = desktop OS'es on N900 without chroot
Jun 10 23:22:58 <Estel_> what interest me is performance, hardware compatibility etc
Jun 10 23:23:15 <Estel_> I don't even know why ubuntu, instead of minimal debian, for example
Jun 10 23:23:25 <Estel_> or archlinux or whatever
Jun 10 23:23:55 <Estel_> archlinux probably because got less packages etc, but why ubuntu with it's unity "glory", instead of good old debian?
Jun 10 23:24:36 <FIQ|n900> archlinux-arm works on n900
Jun 10 23:24:37 <Hurrian> Estel_, arch would be nice too, packaging any new packages is definitely not a problem ;)
Jun 10 23:24:48 <Estel_> if it works - quite good - on 16 MB RAM 200 mhz CPU router wrt54gl, it should in our case too ;)
Jun 10 23:25:09 <Estel_> FIQ|n900,  yea, heard that
Jun 10 23:25:24 <Estel_> although I'm loss in all those hardware/kernel compatibility
Jun 10 23:25:29 <Hurrian> Estel_, i'm pretty sure you're referring to embedded distros
Jun 10 23:25:41 <Hurrian> i'd be hard pressed to build a full glibc userland in 16mb
Jun 10 23:25:59 <Estel_> Hurrian,  no, base debian (without desktop enviroment) works on wrt54gl
Jun 10 23:26:06 <Estel_> hm
Jun 10 23:26:08 <Estel_> maybe
Jun 10 23:26:26 <Estel_> np idea honestly, as it's art for at itself, so I'm using openwrt there :P
Jun 10 23:27:03 <Estel_> still, why ubuntu on N900, not debian?
Jun 10 23:27:05 * Hurrian starts building chroot for rt-n16
Jun 10 23:27:12 <Estel_> :)
Jun 10 23:27:14 <Hurrian> Estel_, no idea
Jun 10 23:27:30 <Estel_> and why specifically Ubuntu 12.04?
Jun 10 23:27:36 <Estel_> same here
Jun 10 23:28:33 <Hurrian> cd device/nokia/n900
Jun 10 23:28:39 <Hurrian> whoops, wrong window
Jun 10 23:28:57 <freemangordon> any CSS guru here?
Jun 10 23:29:07 <Hurrian> here.
Jun 10 23:29:12 <luke-jr> Estel_: the same reasons to use Gentoo over Ubuntu normally? :p
Jun 10 23:29:29 <Hurrian> freemangordon, need help with your new site?
Jun 10 23:29:47 <freemangordon> adblockplus changed behaviour to show "block" tab only when hovered over the element in v1.1
Jun 10 23:29:57 <luke-jr> Estel_: such as being able to build everything customized to the hardware
Jun 10 23:29:57 <Estel_> luke-jr,  maybe, but ubuntu is using some special 2.6.37 version of kernel
Jun 10 23:30:08 <luke-jr> Estel_: no reason we can't use it with Gentoo :p
Jun 10 23:30:19 <luke-jr> 2.6.37 is pretty old already tho
Jun 10 23:30:21 <Hurrian> freemangordon, I just disable that function, even on desktop abp
Jun 10 23:30:22 <Estel_> freemangordon,  what it's about this 2.6.37 so special?
Jun 10 23:30:31 <freemangordon> Hurrian: want to revert that
Jun 10 23:30:46 <Hurrian> lemme look into it.
Jun 10 23:30:54 <freemangordon> Hurrian: how? I want "block" button always visible
Jun 10 23:30:55 <Hurrian> any idea where the code may be?
Jun 10 23:30:59 <freemangordon> yep
Jun 10 23:31:26 <freemangordon> seems like objtabs.css
Jun 10 23:31:54 <freemangordon> Hurrian: if you gonna look at it, then look version 1.3.10
Jun 10 23:32:04 <freemangordon> that is the last version supporting microb
Jun 10 23:32:07 <Hurrian> freemangordon, something like hidebutton:hover{ opacity = 1.0 };
Jun 10 23:32:16 <freemangordon> let me check
Jun 10 23:32:45 <freemangordon> a.%%CLASSNAME%%:hover {
Jun 10 23:32:45 <freemangordon> 		opacity: 0.8 !important;
Jun 10 23:32:45 <freemangordon> 	}
Jun 10 23:32:53 <freemangordon> that is working version
Jun 10 23:33:24 <Hurrian> move it to a.%%CLASSNAME%%{opacity: 0.8 !important;}
Jun 10 23:33:41 <Hurrian> that way, you disable need to hover over it
Jun 10 23:33:43 <freemangordon> ok, let me try
Jun 10 23:34:46 <DocScrutinizer51> so what's up, hackers?
Jun 10 23:38:54 <Estel_> freemangordon,  be sure to release Your work if it works
Jun 10 23:39:01 <Estel_> addblockplus is actually in repos
Jun 10 23:50:31 <Estel_> well, noscript, actually, works, it's blocking scripts... Althouh, it's information tabs and config buttons are nowhere to be found, so no way for allowing temporaly
Jun 10 23:50:37 <Estel_> (in microB)
Jun 10 23:51:03 <Estel_> pity that lazarus for recovery and spell checking doesn't work, - I've had high hopes for that
Jun 10 23:55:42 <LaoLang_cool> Is there a way to copy an event in calendar?
Jun 11 00:39:23 <DocScrutinizer05> LaoLang_cool: wouldn't know of any trivial method
Jun 11 00:40:02 <LaoLang_cool> DocScrutinizer05, ok...
Jun 11 00:44:43 <Estel_> pity that lazarus for recovery and spell checking doesn't work, - I've had high hopes for that I've 58 MB free on rootfs...
Jun 11 00:45:09 <Estel_> And I wonder wht could I move *to* rootfs, for sake of increasing performance
Jun 11 00:45:48 <Estel_> any ideas what sits in opt usually, and would benefit from NAND speeds? (i.e. isn't executable, that sits in RAM anyway)
Jun 11 00:46:13 <Hurrian> Estel_, xorg?
Jun 11 00:46:26 <Estel_> isn't there already?
Jun 11 00:47:11 <Estel_> btw, xorg sits in RAM anyway, yep?
Jun 11 00:47:23 <Hurrian> yeah
Jun 11 00:47:39 <Hurrian> hmm, something slow, that gets unloaded a lot
Jun 11 00:47:44 <Hurrian> the settings app?
Jun 11 00:47:56 <Estel_> sounds reasonable
Jun 11 00:48:05 <Estel_> now must locate, where it live ;)
Jun 11 00:48:34 <Estel_> no core system components, I suppose...
Jun 11 00:48:48 <Estel_> maybe something from easy debian? :P
Jun 11 00:49:06 <Hurrian> dpkg -L (name of settings app)
Jun 11 00:49:15 * Estel_ nods
Jun 11 00:49:29 <Hurrian> also, Estel_, have you seen the new overclocking and kernel-power pages?
Jun 11 00:49:37 <Estel_> now need to determine name of settings app
Jun 11 00:49:44 <Estel_> overlocking yes, kp not yet
Jun 11 00:49:50 <Estel_> will check with pleasure
Jun 11 00:50:03 <LaoLang_cool> Is there a way to export only one event?
Jun 11 00:54:01 <Estel_> Hurrian,  You were the one who wasn't able to get high speeds of chromium in easy debian?
Jun 11 00:54:37 <Hurrian> Estel_, it wasn't me
Jun 11 00:54:44 <Hurrian> I don't use chromium in the first place
Jun 11 00:54:51 * Estel_ nods
Jun 11 00:58:13 <Hurrian> freemangordon, are you still here?
Jun 11 00:58:40 * Hurrian is curious as to why Maemo on MMC won't work with power management enabled
Jun 11 01:01:42 <Sc0rpius> wow at last
Jun 11 01:02:01 <Sc0rpius> I could finally code to close the virtual keyboard
Jun 11 01:02:12 <Sc0rpius> when you press enter on it
Jun 11 01:02:16 <Sc0rpius> that was HARD
Jun 11 01:02:22 <Sc0rpius> it took me a whole day!
Jun 11 01:12:16 <Estel_> :)
Jun 11 01:12:50 <Estel_> hm, strange - chromium is actualy faster, when run from within lxde, that Maemo (both easy debian one)
Jun 11 01:13:19 <Estel_> not to mention, that context menu works even in fullscreen, when run from lxde
Jun 11 01:13:54 <Estel_> the latter was known fact - as for first, I always though it's placebo, as it seemed to me, that running without middle-man will be faster
Jun 11 01:14:17 <Estel_> although, apprently, it isn't - from within lxde it' really blazing fast
Jun 11 01:23:15 <luke-jr> Estel_: http://wiki.maemo.org/Gentoo/N900
Jun 11 01:23:49 <luke-jr> Estel_: re LXDE vs Maemo Chromium speed: I bet it's the swap
Jun 11 01:23:58 <luke-jr> Estel_: Maemo uses a LOT of memory, even compared to KDE
Jun 11 01:29:30 <DocScrutinizer05> luke-jr: maemo? I'd say dialer and browserd and whatnot are using a lot of RAM, due to preload and lock against swapout
Jun 11 01:30:21 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer05: part of Maemo
Jun 11 01:30:48 <SpeedEvil> A phone without dialer locked in RAM...
Jun 11 01:31:25 <Hurrian> SpeedEvil, "internet tablet"
Jun 11 01:31:36 <Hurrian> pretty big oversight by nokia though
Jun 11 01:32:20 <DocScrutinizer51> Hurrian: ?? what is an oversight?
Jun 11 01:34:19 <Hurrian> DocScrutinizer, not locking the phone app in RAM
Jun 11 01:34:36 <DocScrutinizer51> damn, it IS
Jun 11 01:35:17 <Hurrian> 31820 rtcom-call-ui
Jun 11 01:35:21 <Hurrian> oh, I guess it is
Jun 11 01:36:15 <SpeedEvil> (the architechure requiring the CPU to be involved in calls, and other things are questionable too, of course
Jun 11 01:37:27 <DocScrutinizer51> you'll always need CPU involved into handling call establishing
Jun 11 01:37:42 <SpeedEvil> Sure.
Jun 11 01:38:04 <SpeedEvil> But audio processing in a call, is arguable.
Jun 11 01:38:11 <SpeedEvil> Argh.
Jun 11 01:38:22 * SpeedEvil hates random sones from one of the 8 gadgets.
Jun 11 01:38:24 <DocScrutinizer51> indeed
Jun 11 01:38:26 <SpeedEvil> sounds
Jun 11 01:38:51 <DocScrutinizer51> the AP-centric audio concept is highly questionable
Jun 11 01:38:52 <jacekowski> you need something to decompress it
Jun 11 01:39:08 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: the phone CPU does not do decompression.
Jun 11 01:39:25 <SpeedEvil> It basically just hands off audio packets to the phone
Jun 11 01:39:27 <jacekowski> well, how else would you then change destination of audio
Jun 11 01:39:44 <jacekowski> it's nice thing to have all go into one chip
Jun 11 01:39:48 <jacekowski> and then go out of it
Jun 11 01:40:02 <jacekowski> except it should have been done in alsa directly
Jun 11 01:40:09 <jacekowski> without pulsecrap
Jun 11 01:40:32 <DocScrutinizer51> if the one chip was the mixer, I'd agree
Jun 11 01:42:08 <jacekowski> on n900, you have to send phone calls at least 4 different ways, BT, headphones, earpiece and main speakers
Jun 11 01:42:13 <jacekowski> + possibly FMTX
Jun 11 01:42:41 <DocScrutinizer51> well, that's what mixer/codec is for
Jun 11 01:43:10 <jacekowski> thing is, you have AP that can do the job
Jun 11 01:43:20 <DocScrutinizer51> usually no need to pipe it thru CPU
Jun 11 01:43:21 <jacekowski> and without PA it could do it easily
Jun 11 01:43:24 <jacekowski> even at highest load
Jun 11 01:43:45 <jacekowski> so there is no point in adding additional electronics if you have everything you need
Jun 11 01:44:21 <jacekowski> it's more of an implementaion problem than design
Jun 11 01:44:26 <DocScrutinizer51> you already have a mixer/codec
Jun 11 01:44:36 <jacekowski> very limited one
Jun 11 01:45:09 <jacekowski> anyways
Jun 11 01:45:11 <jacekowski> i'm going to sleep
Jun 11 01:45:14 <jacekowski> good night
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jun 11 02:59:58 2012