**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 12 02:59:58 2012
Jun 12 06:25:10 <vi__> freemangordon: backing swap.
Jun 12 06:25:36 <freemangordon> vi__: hmm, not a bad idea
Jun 12 06:26:22 <freemangordon> BTW did you try thumb thingie?
Jun 12 06:39:41 <vi__> freemangordon: Oh, good morning!
Jun 12 06:39:50 <vi__> freemangordon: I assumed you woyul dbe asleep!
Jun 12 06:39:54 <vi__> ^would
Jun 12 06:40:06 <vi__> No, I have not tried T2 yet.
Jun 12 06:40:19 <vi__> I am too chicken shit scared!
Jun 12 06:40:35 <vi__> I only have 1 N900 and it is my production, day to day device.
Jun 12 06:41:00 <vi__> I am happy to let the lemmings run in first and have to reflash when they find the obvious problems.
Jun 12 06:41:26 <vi__> However  I see Geneven has taken the plunge, so I may try later.
Jun 12 06:42:01 <vi__> Out of interest what packages have been recompiled with the thumb2?
Jun 12 06:42:07 <vi__> Hildon desktop?
Jun 12 06:42:09 <vi__> Modest?
Jun 12 06:42:19 <vi__> browserd (I wish)
Jun 12 06:43:55 <vi__> did you get anywhere with the adblock?
Jun 12 06:48:33 <freemangordon> vi__: nah, browserd don't live happily when thumb2-compiled, segfaults in an instant. didn't tried hard though. in adition to modest and h-d, it is gtk, qt, and several other packages
Jun 12 06:48:52 <freemangordon> vi__: gtg now, ttl
Jun 12 06:48:56 <vi__> bb
Jun 12 06:49:25 <vi__> ~ttl
Jun 12 06:49:25 <infobot> i guess ttl is time to live
Jun 12 06:51:06 <freemangordon> talk to you later
Jun 12 06:52:51 <DocScrutinizer05> how the F is browserd segfaulting when compiled for thumb? Isn't that a clear indication there are problems with the thumb instruction set?
Jun 12 06:54:34 <DocScrutinizer05> with silicon-errata patches in compiler and kernel, *all* arbitrary coude *must* run flawlessly when comoiled for either ARM or thumb(2)
Jun 12 06:54:41 <DocScrutinizer05> aiui
Jun 12 06:55:32 <DocScrutinizer05> (unless it has inline assembler written in a really nasty way so it would explode in a thumb environment)
Jun 12 06:55:38 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: you're getting it wrong, when the errata hits, we have a SIGILL, no SIGSEGV
Jun 12 06:55:52 <DocScrutinizer05> nonsense
Jun 12 06:56:07 <freemangordon> yes, it has some inline assembly, I had to enable -mthumb-interwork to make it even compile
Jun 12 06:56:21 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: nonsense is?
Jun 12 06:56:31 <DocScrutinizer05> when si-E hits, we have a faulty branch prediction redirecting the PC to random 
Jun 12 06:56:44 <freemangordon> nah, it is not at random
Jun 12 06:57:10 <DocScrutinizer05> it actually is to previous branch destination AIUI
Jun 12 06:57:15 <freemangordon> the memory is absolutely accesible, it is that it tries to execute ARM instruction as thumb and vice versa
Jun 12 06:57:31 <freemangordon> that is why it is SIGILL
Jun 12 06:57:33 <DocScrutinizer05> which doesn't for sure fit the new swapped in alternative opcode set code
Jun 12 06:58:06 <freemangordon> you'd better read again the errata description
Jun 12 06:58:13 <DocScrutinizer05> uhuh
Jun 12 06:58:32 <DocScrutinizer05> impair branch destination means thumb
Jun 12 06:58:49 <DocScrutinizer05> all I have to say to comment this
Jun 12 06:58:56 * freemangordon is afk
Jun 12 06:59:56 <DocScrutinizer05> the headline says it all: ""CONFIG_ARM_ERRATA_430973: ARM errata: Stale prediction on replaced interworking branch""
Jun 12 07:02:08 <DocScrutinizer05> the branch pediction is stale for the branch intruction that got replaced. depending on where this previous prediction pointed to (pair or impair addr), the desination code is considered ARM or thumb 
Jun 12 07:03:15 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: now I remember it was abort, not a segmentation fault, it is deffinitely something to do with the compiler
Jun 12 07:04:00 <DocScrutinizer05> this may or may not be correct, anyway the stale branch prediction is for the branch origin AIUI, not for the branch destination. So it's completely at random if your stale BrPr points to a pair random adrr and at that addr is some random valid ARM code, or it finds some "illegal" thumb code there or vice versa
Jun 12 07:04:50 <freemangordon> which at the very end leads to SIGILL, so stop spreading FUD, ok?
Jun 12 07:05:15 * freemangordon is really afk
Jun 12 07:05:20 <DocScrutinizer05> stop calling reasonable sound ecxplanation FUD >:-(
Jun 12 07:05:24 <DocScrutinizer05> No Sir
Jun 12 07:05:35 <DocScrutinizer05> It depends, as I elaborated one line above
Jun 12 07:07:56 <DocScrutinizer05> when you branch origin gets replaced, the branch prediction for that instruction isn't flushed, so it may point to valid ARM code or valid thumb code, or to randomly replaced (meanwhile) invalid ARM or invalid thimb code, anyway it points not to where the new instruction in that place would like to branch to
Jun 12 07:08:08 <DocScrutinizer05> the result of this can literally be any error
Jun 12 07:12:23 <DocScrutinizer05> (as auxiliary explanation for the occasional reader I might add: switch to thumb instruction world is done by jumbing/branching to an addr with LSB=1, an impair addr, while switching back to ARM instruction set is a jump/branch to an even addr [LSB=0])
Jun 12 07:14:09 <DocScrutinizer05> now if such a stale branch prediction still ponts to correct code as the code at branch desination didn't change, there's no reason forSIGILL. It's just a bogus branch to a more or less random part of code in memory. The results are literally unpredictible
Jun 12 07:17:36 <DocScrutinizer05> and of course I don't calim I got the final truth on this, it's just how I understand the silicon erratum about stale branch prediction. anybody free to correct me
Jun 12 07:24:43 <DocScrutinizer05> btw a lot of binary opcode values are valid for both ARM and thumb (otherwise we wouldn't need any switching of mode at all) - just the binary value at that memory location *means* different thing to CPU depending on whether CPU is in ARM or thumb mode. So the idea that executing thumb code in ARM mode would automatically and always cause SIGILL is moot from this fact alone
Jun 12 07:28:51 <DocScrutinizer05> much more likely is the case that CPU finds some thumb code and executes it as ARM code just happily, resulting in really unpredictable bogus behaviour of the code. Usually this will eventually result in a SIGSEGV, as all bogus code does
Jun 12 07:31:41 <DocScrutinizer05> so please don't call my arguments FUD, as that's honestly a rather childish and impolite behaviour, and doesn't add to your own credibility
Jun 12 07:47:20 <DocScrutinizer05> compiling browserd with madatory -mthumb-interwork means there's actually code for both ARM and thumb inside browserd, and when this results in segfaults I'd say the SiErratum-patch _does_ _not_ work
Jun 12 08:24:19 <EdLin_> hi
Jun 12 08:46:52 <chem|st> o/
Jun 12 08:50:20 <DocScrutinizer05> chem|st: o/
Jun 12 08:50:35 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: OK, I won't use "FUD" as it seems to offend you, but all of your argumentation above, without even knowing what exactly compiler switches I used, with having NFC if asm code inside microb is ever tested for thumb compatibility, without knowing that microb won't compile if there is no "-mimplicit-it=thumb", etc,etc, is just a plain shot in the dark
Jun 12 08:51:47 <DocScrutinizer05> mhm
Jun 12 08:52:05 <freemangordon> And I am really getting tired arguing with your arguments, which are based on a pure logic. But that logic relies on pure assumtions made on your side, not some hard facts
Jun 12 08:53:39 <DocScrutinizer05> hard fact: 0xfe55 might be a valid opcode in ARM and thumb, in one case it will eventually cause SIGSEGV, while in other case it is part of a correct program sequence
Jun 12 08:53:55 <freemangordon> and continung "aah, it could segfault" when I explained that it was my fault and the real crash is caused by abort does not make sense to me
Jun 12 08:54:14 <DocScrutinizer05> you explained wat?
Jun 12 08:54:39 <freemangordon> [09:59] <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: now I remember it was abort, not a segmentation fault, it is deffinitely something to do with the compiler
Jun 12 08:54:49 * DocScrutinizer05 expects now the old BS argument "you don't read what I write"
Jun 12 08:55:02 <freemangordon> but that is the truth :P
Jun 12 08:55:17 <chem|st> ladies, calm down
Jun 12 08:55:35 <DocScrutinizer05> no, just that this sentence is now with exactly same lack of context as it was initially and it doesn't make any sense to me
Jun 12 08:55:47 <chem|st> both of you are in some way right and you seem to like to read each other but not understand each other
Jun 12 08:56:38 <DocScrutinizer05> your claim being "when it would be thumb related, it would be a SIGILL always"
Jun 12 08:57:12 <DocScrutinizer05> I explained to you why problems with thumb will not always result in SIGILL
Jun 12 08:57:26 <DocScrutinizer05> and now I'm afk
Jun 12 10:15:11 <dafox> ok, seems like I timed-out again... did I manage to ask this (or did anyone reply?): quick question: I need something to show me what wireless networks are interfering with my ap, and the 'WifiEye' seems like what I need. Is it any good? Or is there a better application?
Jun 12 10:15:48 <ivgalvez> WifiEye is nice
Jun 12 10:16:01 <ivgalvez> you'll see if there are a lot of networks in the same channel
Jun 12 10:16:58 <dafox> ok, I'll use that one. thanks :)
Jun 12 10:16:58 <bebna> can't your ap show the used channels?
Jun 12 10:17:34 <dafox> no, it does have an 'auto select' function, but I'm not convinced how good it is
Jun 12 10:18:06 <dafox> probably because that selects a channel which is good where the ap is positioned, and not where I am positioned
Jun 12 10:19:32 <bebna> then i wish you good luck to find a free channel
Jun 12 10:19:48 <dafox> yeah, wifi is getting pretty crowded :(
Jun 12 10:21:56 <vi_> dafox: wifieye is exactly what you want.
Jun 12 10:22:04 <vi_> Also, channel 14.
Jun 12 10:22:19 <dafox> channel 14?
Jun 12 10:22:26 <vi_> It is a secret channel!
Jun 12 10:22:32 <dafox> really?
Jun 12 10:22:33 <vi_> (only legal in japan)
Jun 12 10:22:47 <dafox> any information on this?
Jun 12 10:22:49 <vi_> However it is like 2 channels away from the nearest channel.
Jun 12 10:22:58 <vi_> Meaning there is less interferance,
Jun 12 10:23:03 <dafox> this is good, right?
Jun 12 10:23:09 <vi_> ...yes.
Jun 12 10:23:12 <dafox> ah ok :p
Jun 12 10:23:13 <ivgalvez> but not all devices support channel beyond 12
Jun 12 10:23:29 <vi_> ivgalvez: you mean 13 right?
Jun 12 10:23:46 <ivgalvez> 13 sorry, so if you want to use that channel. you'd need to check all your devices
Jun 12 10:24:10 <vi_> Yeah, that is the downside.  SOme devices do not support ch14.
Jun 12 10:24:13 <bebna> if your in europe, don't use channel 14, my neighbour had to pay a big fucking penalty for it
Jun 12 10:24:25 <dafox> mm, it would be worth a try
Jun 12 10:24:25 <vi_> like the n900 for example :(
Jun 12 10:24:34 <vi_> bebna: photos or it did not happen.
Jun 12 10:24:54 <dafox> bebna: where (country), in a big city? how did he/she get 'caught'?
Jun 12 10:24:56 <bebna> can't post, on N900 @ city
Jun 12 10:25:29 <bebna> in germany we have patroling cars wo check frequencies
Jun 12 10:25:38 <dafox> I'm currently running in 'usa' mode, I believe the TX power limit is highest there?
Jun 12 10:25:53 <dafox> bebna: mm, I'm just in a small rural town, I'd probably be ok :p
Jun 12 10:26:00 <vi_> dafox so your best course of action is load up wifi eye and choose either 13 or 1 depending on which one has the least interferance from competing AP.
Jun 12 10:26:51 <dafox> that was the plan. I just found there's a new cssu update, so I'm backing up & installing that first
Jun 12 10:28:02 <dafox> mm, channel 14 seems to be 11b only, too, even in japan ?
Jun 12 10:29:12 <vi_> Yes.
Jun 12 10:29:23 <vi_> But who cares, you have THE WHOILE CHANNEL!!!
Jun 12 10:29:44 <dafox> yeah, at 10mbit
Jun 12 10:29:48 <vi_> I do not think there is any difference in TX power between the nations.
Jun 12 10:30:05 <vi_> dafox: that is like 1MB/s.
Jun 12 10:30:13 <dafox> I recently got one of those N routers for more speed (el cheapo edition though)
Jun 12 10:30:18 <vi_> What are you doing on your N900 that needs more than 1MB/s?
Jun 12 10:30:41 <dafox> vi_ ah, no not just for the n900, its primarily for my laptop
Jun 12 10:30:49 <vi_> 
Jun 12 10:31:00 <vi_> 640K should be enough for anyone!
Jun 12 10:31:07 <dafox> lol
Jun 12 10:31:41 <vi_> dafox: then choose either 1 or 13 dependinding on competition.
Jun 12 10:32:03 <vi_> (ir something in the middle if it is completely dead.
Jun 12 10:32:05 <vi_> )
Jun 12 10:32:25 <dafox> ok, I will :)
Jun 12 10:34:12 <vi_>  In the USA, 802.11 operation in the channels 12 and 13 is actually allowed under low powered conditions.
Jun 12 10:34:17 <vi_> ^says wikipedia.
Jun 12 10:35:06 <vi_> That would mean if you do use either of those channels you should switch your regulatory domain to EU.
Jun 12 10:35:39 <vi_> iw reg set EU
Jun 12 10:36:04 <dafox> doesn't say how low though... US low power could still be more than in the EU?
Jun 12 10:37:50 <dafox> 802.11g client devices are limited to 125mW output by the FCC at this time
Jun 12 10:38:09 <dafox> 802.11b can actually go to 200mW :o
Jun 12 10:39:55 <dafox> europe seems to limit both b/g to 100mW ?
Jun 12 10:41:21 <vi_> According to WP, yes.
Jun 12 10:41:26 <vi_> I stand corrected.
Jun 12 10:42:44 <dafox> awww, it seems I'm already in the best zone :(
Jun 12 10:43:11 <dafox> channel 1, nothing nearby (everbody else seems to be in channels 6, 7 or 11)
Jun 12 10:45:00 <vi_> Then channel 1 it is then.
Jun 12 10:45:16 <vi_> For extra credit, hax your neigbours AP and move them all to 11.
Jun 12 10:45:54 <dafox> I guess so. Hahaha, do you think it would help much? They're already so far away
Jun 12 10:46:02 <vi_> dafox: not really.
Jun 12 10:46:03 <dafox> (in the graph)
Jun 12 10:46:09 <vi_> But it makes a good pub story!
Jun 12 10:46:16 <dafox> true
Jun 12 10:46:25 <dafox> but this wifi eye is really cool
Jun 12 10:46:35 <dafox> I should've installed it long ago
Jun 12 10:46:36 <vi_> Yes, the interface is really intuitive,
Jun 12 10:47:43 <vi_> Why are all my . coming out as ,????
Jun 12 10:47:47 <dafox> thanks!
Jun 12 10:48:03 <dafox> vi_: not for me?
Jun 12 10:48:25 <vi_> dafox: what is not for you?
Jun 12 10:48:35 <dafox> your '.' are just regular dots?
Jun 12 10:49:16 <vi_> dafox: It is because I am typing like a spacker.
Jun 12 10:50:32 <dafox> ah, I misunderstood, I thought you meant they were being rendered as a literal ',???' :p sorry
Jun 12 10:50:53 <dafox> vi_: practice makes perfect ;)
Jun 12 10:52:19 <vi_> AARGH, fuck qwerty
Jun 12 10:54:18 <dafox> I'm going to mess some more with the settings on my ap, so I'll probably disconnect/timeout again soon. bye :)
Jun 12 11:07:41 <dafox> mm, seems that encryption setting could be changed without rebooting (the router) and disconnecting (the laptop). cool.
Jun 12 11:50:26 <merlin1991> dafox: you lucky bastard
Jun 12 11:50:40 <merlin1991> my router even reboots to change port forwardings
Jun 12 11:50:42 <dafox> what did I do :/
Jun 12 11:51:04 <dafox> hehe, yes, I was surpised too
Jun 12 12:50:45 <MrPingu> freemangordon, one question are the modified wlan driver from lxp compatible with the kernel-cssu?
Jun 12 12:56:17 <freemangordon_> should be, though didn't try if it will work if force installed
Jun 12 13:00:30 <MrPingu> To be safe, I will copy my current modules. Reflash(needed actually) and go on thumb2-cssu :)
Jun 12 13:01:46 <freemangordon_> hmm, me being the maintainer should fix that, ain't :-D 
Jun 12 13:03:00 <MrPingu> Let's say it's still testing material ^^
Jun 12 13:10:40 <MrPingu> grrr, why do my flashes never go smooth, the first 3 times I always get: suitable USB device not found... DOH!
Jun 12 13:14:22 <fasta> I installed the flash light application, but the icon is not visible where it previously was. 
Jun 12 13:15:31 <MrPingu> You mean the torch app?
Jun 12 13:15:49 <MrPingu> Lenscover needs to be open to be seen in status-menu ;)
Jun 12 15:34:27 <vi_> chem|st: ping
Jun 12 15:35:02 <vi_> anyone who lives in germany: ping
Jun 12 15:36:06 <vi_> DocScrutinizer: ping?
Jun 12 15:36:34 <r00t|n900> pong
Jun 12 15:36:34 <r00t|n900> (packet injection)
Jun 12 15:36:46 <vi_> r00t|n900: you live in germany?
Jun 12 15:37:41 <r00t|n900> i already replied
Jun 12 15:37:57 <vi_> Is this a valid german address?
Jun 12 15:37:59 <vi_> THE TIRED KRAUT - CLASSIC BIKE PARTS
Jun 12 15:37:59 <vi_> *****************************************
Jun 12 15:37:59 <vi_> Rudolf-Diesel-Str. 12
Jun 12 15:37:59 <vi_> Industriegebiet Nord
Jun 12 15:38:01 <vi_> D-68535 Neckarhausen
Jun 12 15:38:04 <vi_> Deutschland/Germany
Jun 12 15:38:06 <vi_> Ust-Idnr./Tax-Nr. DE 253 690 770
Jun 12 15:42:47 <chem|st> vi_: pong
Jun 12 15:47:36 <chem|st> vi_: Der müde Björn on ebay... http://myworld.ebay.com/der-muede/
Jun 12 15:47:43 <chem|st> seems to be valid ;)
Jun 12 15:48:51 <vi_> chem|st: That guy has ripped me off.
Jun 12 15:48:59 <vi_> can I report him here?
Jun 12 15:49:09 <vi_> Verbraucherzentrale Bundesverband . VZBV
Jun 12 15:49:26 <MohammadAG> fucking apple fucking signatures
Jun 12 15:50:06 <Cor-Ai> iFuck
Jun 12 15:50:17 <vi_> iFUCK ur rights.
Jun 12 15:50:42 <vi_> chem|st: who can I report shops who rip people off to in germany?
Jun 12 15:51:49 <vi_> chem|st: or these guys:
Jun 12 15:51:52 <vi_> Stiftung warentest
Jun 12 16:10:45 <chem|st> vi_: if he ripped you off you go to the police for instance
Jun 12 16:16:08 <MohammadAG> the police hands out instances?
Jun 12 16:16:20 <MohammadAG> fuck singleton classes!
Jun 12 16:16:30 <kerio> MohammadAG: Borgs are much better
Jun 12 16:17:37 <kerio> MohammadAG: https://pastee.org/hv4fq
Jun 12 16:18:06 <MohammadAG> screw that, the police hands out instances :P
Jun 12 17:04:59 <DocScrutinizer51> vi_: pong
Jun 12 17:05:39 <Vib3> hi
Jun 12 17:06:07 <Vib3> are you guys planning to fix hildon issues?
Jun 12 17:06:22 <Vib3> stops responding if uptime many days
Jun 12 17:06:34 <Vib3> meant on CSSU
Jun 12 17:07:36 <DocScrutinizer51> vi__: you either contact police, or verbraucherzentrale
Jun 12 17:08:04 <DocScrutinizer51> the latter can direct you to right instance at least
Jun 12 17:09:18 <DocScrutinizer51> (I feel dizzy, analyzed 15 levels of stack dump by hand now)
Jun 12 17:10:05 <DocScrutinizer51> and not a nice stack dump backtrace like in linux
Jun 12 17:10:37 <DocScrutinizer51> more like raw hex with a few comments
Jun 12 17:11:06 <Vib3> hehe
Jun 12 17:13:40 <DocScrutinizer51> I.E first(!) line of each function was given, with basename of file, then HEX offset from start where next function got called. Hooray for macros, prototypes etc
Jun 12 17:14:39 <DocScrutinizer51> also all hail to multiple calls to same function, in another function
Jun 12 18:01:11 <DocScrutinizer51> yeah, 9h 2.5G with xchat and IRC, 63% remainig. That's the way I like it
Jun 12 18:02:43 <DocScrutinizer51> honestly connewcting a second IRC client to same bouncer account kills your  standby like I kill flies
Jun 12 18:12:03 <vi__> bugh
Jun 12 18:12:11 <vi__> powermanga game uses like 15MB of rootfs.
Jun 12 18:12:20 <vi__> flubopoyo...around 10MB
Jun 12 18:12:28 <vi__> Epic negative karma time.
Jun 12 18:13:47 * ShadowJK doesn't notice any difference in battery use related to how many clients are connected to his bouncer
Jun 12 18:15:29 * luke-jr doesn't notice any reasonable battery life from xchat ever
Jun 12 18:15:41 <luke-jr> but maybe that's because I idle in like 50 channels
Jun 12 18:15:42 <luke-jr> <.<
Jun 12 18:15:49 <kerio> luke-jr: wifi or umts?
Jun 12 18:15:57 <luke-jr> GPRS/UMTS
Jun 12 18:16:10 <kerio> gprs or umts?
Jun 12 18:16:23 <luke-jr> who knows, same difference
Jun 12 18:16:31 <kerio> not really...
Jun 12 18:16:39 <kerio> umts takes a shitton more energy, doesn't it
Jun 12 18:16:45 <kerio> anyway, that's your problem
Jun 12 18:16:50 <luke-jr> I heard more, but I don't know about much more
Jun 12 18:16:54 <kerio> mobile data transmission for IRC is pretty bad
Jun 12 18:17:03 <kerio> it's constant transmission
Jun 12 18:17:08 <luke-jr> why?
Jun 12 18:17:15 <luke-jr> IRC doesn't require constant anything
Jun 12 18:17:18 <kerio> because you're idling in 50 channels
Jun 12 18:17:19 <kerio> :P
Jun 12 18:17:25 <luke-jr> that's reception
Jun 12 18:17:30 <luke-jr> oh. ACKs.
Jun 12 18:17:40 <kerio> TCP doesn't work that way
Jun 12 18:17:45 <kerio> exactly :)
Jun 12 18:17:47 * luke-jr ponders a UDP Quassel protocol
Jun 12 18:18:15 <ShadowJK> cellular doesn't work that way, even if you're in pure receive-only on the IP level, the radio is still just as active
Jun 12 18:18:24 <kerio> that, too
Jun 12 18:18:40 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: srsly? -.-
Jun 12 18:18:49 <ShadowJK> yes
Jun 12 18:19:03 <luke-jr> gah
Jun 12 18:19:16 <luke-jr> ok, fine, Quassel changes to not update buffers unless the window/tab is active?
Jun 12 18:19:44 <kerio> keepalives will still fuck you up, kinda
Jun 12 18:20:09 <luke-jr> keepalives can be once every 4 minutes
Jun 12 18:20:14 <luke-jr> if even that often
Jun 12 18:20:22 <luke-jr> why do I need keepalives? O.o
Jun 12 18:20:29 <luke-jr> it's not like my connection is NAT'd
Jun 12 18:20:30 <ShadowJK> Also on umts, any single data packet in any direction will activate and keep the radio active for a minium period of time, measured in seconds. On my operator it's like 5 seconds. That means if there's a single packet every 5s, the radio burns as much power as a constant voice call
Jun 12 18:21:00 <luke-jr> can't override it on N900? <.<
Jun 12 18:21:02 <kerio> <ShadowJK> my operator is horrible
Jun 12 18:21:06 <kerio> that's what i heard
Jun 12 18:21:52 <ShadowJK> it's decided by operator, if you just override it, it'd be same thing as yanking battery or dropping out of coverage
Jun 12 18:22:18 <luke-jr> they check it? :/
Jun 12 18:22:42 <ShadowJK> it's inherent to the system
Jun 12 18:23:42 <luke-jr> what if you predict it, and turn the radio off for 4 of the 5 seconds? <.<
Jun 12 18:23:57 <ShadowJK> predict what
Jun 12 18:23:59 <DocScrutinizer06> kerio: luke-jr: ZUMTZ = GPRS * 4, for energy
Jun 12 18:24:07 <luke-jr> wow
Jun 12 18:24:10 <kerio> zumtz?
Jun 12 18:24:33 * luke-jr ponders setting up some script to set GSM-only and switch to auto only when GSM is unavailable
Jun 12 18:25:10 <DocScrutinizer06> UDP on GPRS also needs ACK, afaik
Jun 12 18:25:39 <ShadowJK> This is why nokia made libiphb (which is partially closed?), so that several apps could coordinate data bursts
Jun 12 18:25:53 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: wouldn't that be an OS-level thing?
Jun 12 18:26:02 <DocScrutinizer06> kerio: ZUMTS = UMTS with an ititial typo that looked nicer with a trailing one
Jun 12 18:26:10 <ShadowJK> there's a kernel module
Jun 12 18:26:16 <DocScrutinizer06> ZUMTZ
Jun 12 18:26:36 <luke-jr> once I thought of writing a "smart VPN"
Jun 12 18:28:04 <DocScrutinizer06> ShadowJK has the ultimative bandwidth packer for IRC
Jun 12 18:28:22 <DocScrutinizer06> just missing package propagation on highlight
Jun 12 18:28:28 <ShadowJK> it's a dirty hack, not quite ultimate nor optimal
Jun 12 18:28:41 <DocScrutinizer06> it's almost optimal
Jun 12 18:29:04 <dafox> vi_: is it really the same guy from the ebay page? he has very high rating... seems weird that he'd try to rip you off
Jun 12 18:29:06 <DocScrutinizer06> and "dirty hack" is in fact genious usage of existing usnix tools
Jun 12 18:30:18 <ShadowJK> With multiserver, you more or less get one burst per server, at somewhat unpredictable intervals
Jun 12 18:30:28 <dafox> his business profile even has some text saying that he's only got 2 negative ratings, and asking those two people to please contact him...
Jun 12 18:30:30 <ShadowJK> with single server it's somewhat closer
Jun 12 18:30:48 <DocScrutinizer06> I never even thought about multiserver ;-)
Jun 12 18:31:37 <DocScrutinizer06> quassel would be optimum, if it would handle highlight and keepalive
Jun 12 18:33:05 <DocScrutinizer06> aaaah, and of course ShadowJK's_dirty_hack is missing temporary diabling of buffering when "I" post something
Jun 12 18:33:16 <DocScrutinizer06> for maybe 3 minutes
Jun 12 18:33:22 <ShadowJK> yes
Jun 12 18:34:48 <ShadowJK> A good solution would be a bouncer running on both n900 and a server. The n900 side checks whethet screen is on or off. If off, server side buffers until n900 side indicates screen on, or server side detects a message directed at the user
Jun 12 18:35:21 <ShadowJK> Alternatively "buffer at most 10 minutes or x bytes"
Jun 12 18:37:46 <ShadowJK> Considering hspa 10Mbit/s and 5 second 3g timer, with ~5 Megabyte databurst your energy efficiency is about 50%! :D
Jun 12 18:38:04 <ShadowJK> (less for smaller bursts than 5 meg)
Jun 12 18:38:11 <DocScrutinizer06> ShadowJK: don't forget keep-alive
Jun 12 18:38:40 <ShadowJK> Well i dont personally need keep-alive either :P
Jun 12 18:38:57 <DocScrutinizer06> bastard! ;-P
Jun 12 18:39:12 <DocScrutinizer06> nah, sorry
Jun 12 18:39:24 <ShadowJK> but /timer -repeat 0 600 allserv ping
Jun 12 18:39:27 <ShadowJK> in xchat
Jun 12 18:39:33 <DocScrutinizer06> I think a nice NAT is worth a lot for UMTS/GPRS
Jun 12 18:39:44 <ShadowJK> gives you 10 minute keepalive :P
Jun 12 18:39:50 <luke-jr> NAT is evil
Jun 12 18:40:01 <luke-jr> just don't do it.
Jun 12 18:40:11 <DocScrutinizer06> luke-jr: that's NatIsBad
Jun 12 18:40:54 <DocScrutinizer06> ShadowJK: keepalive pings are in .xhat2/xchat.conf or sth
Jun 12 18:40:56 <ShadowJK> i get natted during peak use. Basically when ISP runs out of IPs they NAT, but if there are available IPs in the pool they give out public IP.
Jun 12 18:40:59 <DocScrutinizer06> no need for /timer
Jun 12 18:41:11 <luke-jr> how do you run out of IPs? O.o
Jun 12 18:41:31 <DocScrutinizer06> what a question
Jun 12 18:41:43 <ShadowJK> lol
Jun 12 18:42:10 <ShadowJK> didn't IANA run out of IPs like 3 years ago?
Jun 12 18:42:11 <luke-jr> I mean, T-Mobile is only assigning me a single IP address, not the /64 they're supposed to
Jun 12 18:42:24 <DocScrutinizer06> LOL
Jun 12 18:42:27 <ShadowJK> on IPv4 atleast
Jun 12 18:42:29 <luke-jr> so they shouldn't run out ever
Jun 12 18:42:32 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: who uses IPv4?
Jun 12 18:42:42 <ShadowJK> everyone except you
Jun 12 18:43:40 <DocScrutinizer06> XP
Jun 12 18:44:23 <ShadowJK> luke your reality distortion field is weak!
Jun 12 18:44:28 <ShadowJK> you need to upgrade
Jun 12 18:44:36 <DocScrutinizer06> head...
Jun 12 18:44:43 <DocScrutinizer05> ...desk
Jun 12 18:45:21 <ShadowJK> I heard the guy with the strongest reality distortion field projector recently died and got buried, maybe you could go dig him up and steal it
Jun 12 18:46:10 <DocScrutinizer05> no, he got burried with the device operating (you never can stop reality field distorters)
Jun 12 18:46:23 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: I am happy T-Mobile provides IPv6-only cellular service.
Jun 12 18:46:24 <DocScrutinizer05> you'll never find him, no matter how deep you dig
Jun 12 18:46:59 <ShadowJK> Iirc in 2006 nokia was at a google talk, talking about IPv6 and mobile
Jun 12 18:47:12 <DocScrutinizer05> Lirc?
Jun 12 18:47:42 <ShadowJK> how they'd concluded that the minimum keep-alive for real life natted isps was about 15secs
Jun 12 18:48:01 <DocScrutinizer05> WTF!
Jun 12 18:48:07 <luke-jr> port 500 tends to have higher timeouts ;)
Jun 12 18:48:20 <ShadowJK> which for an always-online thing meant 8-fold reduction of battery life compared to non-natted connection waiting for pushemail
Jun 12 18:49:25 <DocScrutinizer05> unless you get bogus pings and other bullcrap inbound, at <10 s/1
Jun 12 18:50:13 <DocScrutinizer05> NAT-BEHAVEE is a nice read, if you can dig up that RFC anymore anywhere
Jun 12 18:50:43 <ShadowJK> can't wait 'til friday
Jun 12 18:51:26 <ShadowJK> group buy of beer at $work. Got 3 pallets of beer on the way from germany \o/
Jun 12 18:51:53 <ShadowJK> should keep the thirst of 30 finns quenched a couple of days atleast \o/
Jun 12 18:52:19 <DocScrutinizer05> FREAKIN F²¼ð¼³¹NG <BEEEP>
Jun 12 18:52:49 <DocScrutinizer05> again this 40s forced guru mediation when invoking a website
Jun 12 18:53:33 <ShadowJK> in "vmstat 1", is US or WA column dominating during guru meditation, or neither?
Jun 12 18:54:21 <DocScrutinizer05> http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-behave-nat-00.txt
Jun 12 18:55:08 <DocScrutinizer05> I think I recall them bashing ZyXEL explicitly ;-D
Jun 12 18:58:41 <DocScrutinizer05> or maybe it's been me bashing ZyXEL back when for not adhering to some fundamental BEHAVE requirements
Jun 12 19:01:04 <DocScrutinizer05> ShadowJK: nice tip, will check next time I run into it
Jun 12 19:01:23 <DocScrutinizer05> hre idiot thing is: my CPU load is at 0.x%
Jun 12 19:01:31 <DocScrutinizer05> during the whole 40s
Jun 12 19:01:58 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't see any external DNS queries timing out either
Jun 12 19:04:32 <DocScrutinizer05> and honestly, this "Fn" key lower left of this Lenovo keyboard drives me nuts
Jun 12 19:05:00 <vi__> dafox: yes, he is the same guy.
Jun 12 19:05:01 <DocScrutinizer05> anybody ever heard of swapping Fn and Ctrl?
Jun 12 19:05:09 <vi__> I will tell you the story.
Jun 12 19:05:23 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: yes.  It is covered in the wiki page on keyboard remapping.
Jun 12 19:05:33 <APTX> it's in the bios
Jun 12 19:05:41 <DocScrutinizer05> on Lenovo, vi__
Jun 12 19:05:43 <dafox> DocScrutinizer: you'll adjust to that in 2-3 days
Jun 12 19:05:46 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: oh, your thinkpad
Jun 12 19:06:06 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: if you figure it out tell me, it is a massive pain in the balls.
Jun 12 19:06:15 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed
Jun 12 19:06:29 <APTX> it's in the bios
Jun 12 19:06:31 <DocScrutinizer05> APTX: o.O
Jun 12 19:06:33 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: you have a trackpoint?
Jun 12 19:06:39 <DocScrutinizer05> yup
Jun 12 19:06:42 <DocScrutinizer05> T500
Jun 12 19:06:46 <dafox> and love it ;)
Jun 12 19:06:47 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: welcome to the darkside.
Jun 12 19:07:17 <vi__> dafox: that guy sold me a shockabsorber for my motorcycle.
Jun 12 19:07:23 <vi__> dafox: it is totally defective.
Jun 12 19:07:29 <ShadowJK> if it had been cpu use I'd recommended noscript
Jun 12 19:07:40 <vi__> In fact it is missing internal parts that make it work.
Jun 12 19:08:02 <DocScrutinizer05> It might still be a friggin script that waits for any shitty event to never happen
Jun 12 19:08:07 <vi__> dafox: I bought 3 months ago but only got around to fitting it last week or so.
Jun 12 19:08:10 <DocScrutinizer05> or plugin
Jun 12 19:08:31 <vi__> dafox: It was sold to me as a dud.
Jun 12 19:08:53 <vi__> dafox: the rebound dampner control is not even connected!
Jun 12 19:08:57 <vi__> dafox: it is a fake.
Jun 12 19:09:49 <dafox> vi_: did you try to contact him? he might be reasonable about it, you don't get to a 99.9% positive feedback rating selling garbage afterall :)
Jun 12 19:10:23 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed
Jun 12 19:10:40 <APTX> DocScrutinizer05: Under Config->Keyboard/Mouse->Fn and Ctrl Key swap
Jun 12 19:10:42 <DocScrutinizer05> shit happens, even with good sellers
Jun 12 19:11:00 <DocScrutinizer05> in Lenovo BIOS config??
Jun 12 19:11:21 <DocScrutinizer05> APTX: ^^^
Jun 12 19:11:24 <APTX> yes
Jun 12 19:11:33 <DocScrutinizer05> bye fellas!! ;-D
Jun 12 19:19:21 <DocScrutinizer05> no such option in BIOS
Jun 12 19:20:20 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: it cannot be swapped.
Jun 12 19:20:33 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: by mortal means,
Jun 12 19:20:50 * DocScrutinizer05 considers using devine means
Jun 12 19:21:10 <dafox> DocScrutinizer: http://forum.notebookreview.com/lenovo-ibm/474396-fn-ctrl-swap-all-lenovo-laptops-solved.html#
Jun 12 19:21:15 <DocScrutinizer05> involving a soldering ironn and wire
Jun 12 19:21:15 <dafox> bios mods :D
Jun 12 19:21:37 <APTX> DocScrutinizer05: it exists on my W520 :/
Jun 12 19:23:07 <MohammadAG> speaking of wires and such
Jun 12 19:23:15 <MohammadAG> there was a fan that had two wires loose
Jun 12 19:23:19 <dafox> you might be able to cook something up with xmodmap too (http://superuser.com/questions/377063/mapping-keys-on-linux)
Jun 12 19:23:25 <MohammadAG> I didn't know which was + and - so I just connected them randomly
Jun 12 19:23:42 <MohammadAG> upon connecting to power, I heard a blow, saw a spark, then the whole rom lost power
Jun 12 19:23:45 <MohammadAG> is the fan dead?
Jun 12 19:23:51 <dafox> did you let out the magic smoke?
Jun 12 19:24:17 <vi__> MohammadAG: you gone done goofed.h
Jun 12 19:24:36 <MohammadAG> vi_, I take it that's an abstract class?
Jun 12 19:24:41 <MohammadAG> dafox, yes
Jun 12 19:24:42 <vi__> no
Jun 12 19:24:45 <vi__> a typo.
Jun 12 19:25:22 <vi__> However I cannot understand why a 2 wire fan, plugged in backwards would cause an 'splosion.
Jun 12 19:25:35 <dafox> then probably it won't work no more. happened to me too once, probably because my fan was one of those with speedcontrol circuitry
Jun 12 19:25:51 <MohammadAG> this had that circuitry
Jun 12 19:25:52 <vi__> dafox: a 2 wire fan has none.
Jun 12 19:26:03 <MohammadAG> it's a normal fan with 2 wires loose
Jun 12 19:26:04 <dafox> ah, true
Jun 12 19:26:10 <MohammadAG> more than 2 wires in total
Jun 12 19:26:19 <vi__> 3 oerchance?
Jun 12 19:26:29 <vi__> ^perchance?
Jun 12 19:26:29 <MohammadAG> with a spinner!
Jun 12 19:27:13 * vi__ considers a dallas 1-wire controlled fan.
Jun 12 20:07:25 <APTX> DocScrutinizer05 and whoever else: http://aptx.org/~aptx/images/fnswap_lenovo.jpg I did not mod anything
Jun 12 20:08:43 <DocScrutinizer05> APTX: atm looking for BIOS update from Lenovo official
Jun 12 20:15:35 <Woody14619> ~dict mompl
Jun 12 20:15:37 <infobot> could not find definition for mompl
Jun 12 20:17:03 <DocScrutinizer05> moment please
Jun 12 20:17:20 <DocScrutinizer05> ~mompl
Jun 12 20:17:20 <infobot> somebody said mompl was a stupid short form for "moment please"
Jun 12 20:17:42 <merlin1991> lulz
Jun 12 20:18:13 * merlin1991 wonders how many people in here have a nickname.something dns entry
Jun 12 20:18:53 <merlin1991> much/many? I don't know
Jun 12 20:28:27 <merlin1991> ~seen Estel
Jun 12 20:28:32 <merlin1991> ~seen Estel_
Jun 12 20:28:37 <infobot> i haven't seen 'estel', merlin1991
Jun 12 20:28:37 <infobot> estel_ <~Estel@dgo77.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 19h 14m 20s ago, saying: 'although, apprently, it isn't - from within lxde it' really blazing fast'.
Jun 12 20:28:43 <merlin1991> ffs
Jun 12 20:31:58 <Woody14619> I haven't seen him in a bit on other nicks either merlin.
Jun 12 20:32:28 <Woody14619> merlin1991: Though he's replying to e-mail occasionally... if you need to contact him.
Jun 12 20:34:23 <merlin1991> I think he's hiding from me ;)
Jun 12 20:35:45 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe got k-lined? ;-D
Jun 12 20:43:46 <freemangordon> hmm, logs on both #maemo and #maemo-ssu stop on 01:20
Jun 12 20:45:33 <DocScrutinizer05> apt logs?
Jun 12 20:45:41 <DocScrutinizer05> aka infobot?
Jun 12 20:46:15 <DocScrutinizer05> err nope, we got povbot for primary logbot here
Jun 12 20:46:50 <DocScrutinizer05> umpf
Jun 12 20:47:00 <DocScrutinizer05> ~seen povbot
Jun 12 20:47:01 <infobot> povbot <~supybot@office.pov.lt> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 12d 23h 37m 1s ago, saying: '04Bug 11091: Bug in cpufreq module - exposed in /proc/timer_stats'.
Jun 12 20:47:14 <DocScrutinizer05> ~seen povbot_
Jun 12 20:47:15 <infobot> povbot_ <~supybot@office.pov.lt> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 4d 12h 16m 36s ago, saying: 'Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/9943 MfE Wizard fails if exchange server hostname has IPv4 and IPv6 addresses'.
Jun 12 20:47:20 <DocScrutinizer05> dang
Jun 12 20:47:34 <DocScrutinizer05> this bot drives me crazy
Jun 12 20:47:43 <DocScrutinizer05> mgedmin: ping
Jun 12 20:48:00 <DocScrutinizer05> mgedmin: could you check what's up with povbot, lease?
Jun 12 20:48:07 <DocScrutinizer05> ~logs
Jun 12 20:48:08 <infobot> All conversations are logged to http://infobot.rikers.org/%23maemo/ Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Logs are updated daily.
Jun 12 20:49:20 <DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: thanks for pointing to the problem
Jun 12 20:51:48 <DocScrutinizer05> funny part is infobot doesn't log /part events
Jun 12 20:55:48 <DocScrutinizer05> Guest5313: would you like to /nick termana maybe?
Jun 12 20:57:33 <Juozapas> hi
Jun 12 20:58:49 <Juozapas> is it possible to connect camera to n900 and use it as monitor ?
Jun 12 20:59:52 <jacekowski> yes
Jun 12 20:59:57 <jacekowski> complicated
Jun 12 21:00:01 <DocScrutinizer05> allegedly some guys managed to attach webcam in USB hostmode
Jun 12 21:00:04 <jacekowski> read the wiki
Jun 12 21:01:40 <DocScrutinizer05> iPhone has an app that implements a mini-webserver providing some flash website showing what the iphone camera sees
Jun 12 21:01:40 <Juozapas> i want to connect camera with analog output (car rear side camera)
Jun 12 21:01:50 <DocScrutinizer05> no way
Jun 12 21:02:06 <jacekowski> well, you could use usb tv card
Jun 12 21:02:20 <jacekowski> enough power may be a problem
Jun 12 21:02:22 <DocScrutinizer05> yup
Jun 12 21:04:15 <Woody14619> Juozapas, you've be better off using a stamp or some other board set to turn the reverse-cam into a mini web-cam and wifi into it.
Jun 12 21:05:00 <Woody14619> .oO(Or a long fiber-optic cable bundle.... to the N900 camera. :D )
Jun 12 21:08:04 <Juozapas> ;]]]
Jun 12 21:10:34 <DocScrutinizer05> or a cheapish mini-TV
Jun 12 21:16:21 * Woody14619 notes there are tons of cheep PC-ish dash consoles that have video in, as well as radios, mp3/mp4 playback, etc.
Jun 12 21:57:56 <Woody14619> For those interested, Council Meeting Minutes are updated on the blog.  (http://maemo.org/community/council/community_council_meeting-june_8-2012/ )
Jun 12 21:58:44 <Woody14619> .oO(But then if you were interested, you'd be at the meetings, Fridays at 18:00 UTC, yes? )
Jun 12 21:59:29 <chem|st> Woody14619: no time I am available sry...
Jun 12 22:00:03 <Woody14619> Well, feel free to follow along on the blog, or via the channel logger. :)
Jun 12 22:00:41 <chem|st> Woody14619: there are packages pushed to extras like qtlockscreen which are far away from stable
Jun 12 22:00:42 <Woody14619> .oO(The minutes are quite nice actually, 300 lines of IRC -> 20 lines of minutes.)
Jun 12 22:00:49 <luke-jr> Woody14619: I didn't know there were meetings :p
Jun 12 22:01:03 <Woody14619> luke-jr, now you know. :)
Jun 12 22:01:46 <luke-jr> Woody14619: Oops! Google Chrome could not find devel.nokia.com
Jun 12 22:01:50 * Woody14619 nods at chem|st.   This isn't a wholesale push... it's an attempt (by the testing group) to move stable projects into extras that may not have maintainers...
Jun 12 22:03:27 <Woody14619> luke-jr that was auto-linked by the editor... I haven't followed up on it since I'm neither applying for a device, nor managing the end details. :)  Thanks for the catch though, I'll bring it up next meeting.
Jun 12 22:03:47 <luke-jr> maybe he meant garage? O.o
Jun 12 22:04:57 <chem|st> Woody14619: you should reconsider opinions on council deciding if a councelor gets a device...
Jun 12 22:05:17 <luke-jr> Woody14619: anything I can do to help my chances of winning? :P
Jun 12 22:05:50 <Woody14619> Were it up to me alone, chem|st, I would agree.  However, 4 of the others are applying... so even if I were to vote against it, I susspect I would alone in that.
Jun 12 22:06:15 <Woody14619> like-jr, <snark>run for Council? </snark>
Jun 12 22:06:49 <luke-jr> Woody14619: :/
Jun 12 22:07:25 <Woody14619> lluke-jr, Really... your best bet is to put together a nice list of what you've done for the community.... Outside of that?  Not much else to do.
Jun 12 22:07:42 <Woody14619> .oO(If I could type today, I'd be dangerious...)
Jun 12 22:08:08 <chem|st> Woody14619: irc cloaks for who, council? temporary cloaks then?!
Jun 12 22:09:00 <Woody14619> In fact, one of the primary reasons I have not requested a device is because I was elected to Council, and felt it would be problematic to be both a judge and a contestant in said competition.
Jun 12 22:09:30 <Woody14619> .oO(That, and frankly, I can think of 25 other people who've done a lot more to help things along than I have...)
Jun 12 22:10:23 <chem|st> Woody14619: I appreciate that!
Jun 12 22:10:42 <Woody14619> Yes, chem|st.  Each Council cycle the cloaks on FreeNode are updated to indicate current Council; or at least they were until two cycles ago.  One member wanted the cloaks this cycle, so it was again requested.
Jun 12 22:12:39 <GeneralAntilles> Hey, I updated the bug! X-Fade just didn't get around to it quickly. :P
Jun 12 22:13:37 <Woody14619> Apparently last cycle the one active Council member was not overly concerened with it (and/or was already setup from the previous cycle?)
Jun 12 22:13:47 <chem|st> Woody14619: hehe, I do not remember any council cloaks showing up^^ ever
Jun 12 22:14:07 <GeneralAntilles> I had one for a bit.
Jun 12 22:14:10 <GeneralAntilles> Those were the days.
Jun 12 22:14:11 <chem|st> reading councli showing up ever^^
Jun 12 22:14:38 <Woody14619> Lol... :)  X-Fade was timely on it... in asking what the names should be.  It took me a couple days to get replies from everyone and NickServ registered and what not...
Jun 12 22:14:54 <chem|st> GeneralAntilles: well you are so integrated I barely se you rejoin^^
Jun 12 22:15:07 <Woody14619> Currently only 3 of us have them, as SD69 and Ivan didn't want to be bothered with registering with NickServ...
Jun 12 22:15:10 <chem|st> and netsplits are rare nowadays
Jun 12 22:15:52 * Woody14619 noticed that... netsplits used to happen all the time 10 years ago...
Jun 12 22:16:09 <Woody14619> .oO(Which was the last time I was active on IRC before this...)
Jun 12 22:17:47 <chem|st> for the chanop... it is the same as tmo moderators, we had councelors being mods or become one for council areas but it isn't helping hot discussions to have a pissed of councelor being mod, even back then some asked me to step in as smod to have the place settled again
Jun 12 22:19:38 <chem|st> in terms seperations of powers council should not be mod nor chanop nor have be elidgible for CA devices
Jun 12 22:19:54 * Woody14619 nods... You'll find no argument from me on any of that.
Jun 12 22:20:13 <Woody14619> In fact, if you review the IRC chat log, you'll see I argue that exact point. :)
Jun 12 22:20:25 <chem|st> please bring the "seperation of powers" to the next meeting
Jun 12 22:20:32 <chem|st> Woody14619: I know
Jun 12 22:21:53 <SpeedEvil> I don't see why council members shouldn't be eligible. Clearly they shouldn't vote on devices for themselves
Jun 12 22:24:52 <chem|st> SpeedEvil: they should not vote on any device
Jun 12 22:25:58 <chem|st> SpeedEvil: if they vote and it is now 4 requesting one you have 4 guys giving out 21 devices denieing all the rest so they have 4 devices left for themselves even without being able to vote for their own device
Jun 12 22:26:06 <Woody14619> chem|st were that true, distribution would be 100% up to me.
Jun 12 22:26:31 <Woody14619> Which frankly, I do not want.. :(
Jun 12 22:27:16 <chem|st> Woody14619: exactly
Jun 12 22:29:13 <Woody14619> And even voting on other council members is problematic... for a slew of reasons...
Jun 12 22:47:02 <XDS2010_> any of you guys ever use waze ?
Jun 12 22:47:34 <XDS2010_> having a hard time obtaining some source build files along with building on maemo
Jun 12 23:01:42 <DocScrutinizer05> council cloaks are standard, and usually not revoked
Jun 12 23:02:28 <DocScrutinizer05> (of course you need a proper IRC account to use a cloak :-P)
Jun 12 23:09:48 <GeneralAntilles> chem|st, when was this? I missed out on moderation-related conflicts of interest on Talk I guess.
Jun 12 23:13:59 <chem|st> GeneralAntilles: discussion on this was a while ago, confilcts texrat got in with, was moderator but asked me to step in
Jun 12 23:15:44 <chem|st> s/o came up with the idea of council smod by default and afair reggie turned that down
Jun 12 23:15:53 <DocScrutinizer05> (council) it's an embassador role, not our king
Jun 12 23:16:32 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer05: thats what the header reads on the council page^^
Jun 12 23:17:04 <DocScrutinizer05> seems nowadays it's not popular to read this header, on council
Jun 12 23:17:35 <DocScrutinizer05> s/on/by/
Jun 12 23:17:35 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: seems nowadays it's not popular to read this header, by council
Jun 12 23:17:57 <DocScrutinizer05> I know of only 1.5 I'd think who did
Jun 12 23:18:39 <chem|st> no nitpicking pls^^
Jun 12 23:18:47 <DocScrutinizer05> :-D
Jun 12 23:19:28 <DocScrutinizer05> ~seen estel_
Jun 12 23:19:30 <infobot> estel_ <~Estel@dgo77.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 22h 5m 12s ago, saying: 'although, apprently, it isn't - from within lxde it' really blazing fast'.
Jun 12 23:19:52 <DocScrutinizer05> ~seen povbot_
Jun 12 23:19:52 <infobot> povbot_ <~supybot@office.pov.lt> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 4d 14h 49m 13s ago, saying: 'Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/9943 MfE Wizard fails if exchange server hostname has IPv4 and IPv6 addresses'.
Jun 12 23:20:04 <DocScrutinizer05> ~seen mgedmin
Jun 12 23:20:04 <infobot> mgedmin is currently on #maemo #n9 #harmattan #storm. Has said a total of 1 messages. Is idling for 14h 31m 33s, last said: 'if you've enabled developer mode, yes'.
Jun 12 23:20:38 <DocScrutinizer05> cheers everybody
Jun 12 23:22:17 <DocScrutinizer05> Woody14619: please ping me any time for topic changes
Jun 12 23:22:39 <chem|st> I know you are upset, I am embarrassed and feel sorry at the same time
Jun 12 23:22:45 <DocScrutinizer05> topic is length limited, please keep in mind
Jun 12 23:23:06 <DocScrutinizer05> chem|st: ????
Jun 12 23:23:29 <chem|st> 01:17 < DocScrutinizer05> I know of only 1.5 I'd think who did
Jun 12 23:23:50 <DocScrutinizer05> meh, don't take that 1.5 serious
Jun 12 23:24:11 <chem|st> a 2.5 I would...
Jun 12 23:24:23 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe 2.5, maybe even 3
Jun 12 23:24:47 <chem|st> more like an average...
Jun 12 23:25:17 <Woody14619> : votes PI*i, but thinks few are whole numbers.
Jun 12 23:25:18 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd however not elect current council for council of century, and that's no accusement to most of the  guys
Jun 12 23:26:07 <chem|st> there is a tide, at least I believe there is
Jun 12 23:26:21 <DocScrutinizer05> however a decent understanding of what council means seems mandatory for *all* council members
Jun 12 23:27:00 * Woody14619 sighs... Must remember IRC != talker. :P
Jun 12 23:27:07 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm happy Woody14619 demonstrates it's actually no problem to get the catch
Jun 12 23:27:15 <chem|st> ;)
Jun 12 23:27:19 * Woody14619 blushes.
Jun 12 23:27:27 * chem|st puts on a nasty grin
Jun 12 23:29:27 * Woody14619 hates how long it take to do a full rebuild....  dumb Windows version numbers. :P
Jun 12 23:29:37 <DocScrutinizer05> Woody14619: you noticed I asked you to comment (and redact) on /topic any time
Jun 12 23:29:41 <merlin1991> full rebuild of what?
Jun 12 23:30:07 <merlin1991> doc whatabout a hint about #maemo-ssu
Jun 12 23:30:19 <Woody14619> yup.. :)  Appreciated DocScrutinizer05
Jun 12 23:30:20 <DocScrutinizer05> suggestions please!
Jun 12 23:30:58 * Woody14619 works on non-Maemo work atm... (aka the day job)
Jun 12 23:31:05 * merlin1991 can't find the topiclen in the server notices
Jun 12 23:31:10 <merlin1991> shouldn't the server post them on join?
Jun 12 23:32:04 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Jun 12 23:32:18 <Woody14619> I kinda like the generic one. :)
Jun 12 23:32:26 <DocScrutinizer05> TOPICLEN=390 
Jun 12 23:33:05 <merlin1991> true
Jun 12 23:33:11 <merlin1991> fsck search in this client
Jun 12 23:33:29 <merlin1991> eh I didn't think it through yet :D
Jun 12 23:33:32 <Woody14619> However, the one in #maemo-meeting could use a slight change...
Jun 12 23:33:49 <DocScrutinizer05> Woody14619: soory, ask GAN900
Jun 12 23:34:11 <DocScrutinizer05> or jacekowski
Jun 12 23:34:13 <DocScrutinizer05> err
Jun 12 23:34:15 <Woody14619> Maybe after the build test. :) brb
Jun 12 23:34:19 <DocScrutinizer05> ETAB
Jun 12 23:34:25 <DocScrutinizer05> or Jaffa
Jun 12 23:34:37 <DocScrutinizer05> o/
Jun 12 23:34:52 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry for highlight, jacekowski
Jun 12 23:38:23 <DocScrutinizer05> merlin1991: seems a lot of clients have shorter limit on /topic
Jun 12 23:40:38 <DocScrutinizer05> any complaints befor I deop myself?
Jun 12 23:41:45 <robbiethe1st> Ooh, ooh! I have a complaint!
Jun 12 23:42:04 <merlin1991> false alarm ;)
Jun 12 23:42:08 <robbiethe1st> I dunno what it is.
Jun 12 23:42:15 <SpeedEvil> Is there a need for the (few) ?
Jun 12 23:42:18 <merlin1991> classic
Jun 12 23:42:23 <merlin1991> SpeedEvil: yes it is
Jun 12 23:42:25 <robbiethe1st> Hm... how about I complain about Nokia?
Jun 12 23:42:29 <merlin1991> because it's uhm 3?
Jun 12 23:42:43 <DocScrutinizer05> SpeedEvil: fishing for contributors
Jun 12 23:42:46 <SpeedEvil> ah
Jun 12 23:43:30 <DocScrutinizer05> if you don't like it...
Jun 12 23:44:39 <DocScrutinizer05> ~cookie
Jun 12 23:44:41 <infobot> Hey docscrutinizer05, sysklogd is System log daemons. URL: ftp://ftp.infodrom.north.de/pub/people/joey/sysklogd/
Jun 12 23:45:50 <DocScrutinizer05> ~+chaninfo
Jun 12 23:45:50 <infobot> 123/123 channels, 4883 users, 3516 unique: #debian/1151, #kde/349, #maemo/267, #gsoc/256, #meego/193, #asterisk/162, #harmattan/160, #wowuidev/144, #oe/131, #webos-internals/117, #wowace/115, #openmoko/94, #wowhead/92, #openmoko-cdevel/72, #utah/67, #n9/65, #uclibc/65, #arm-netbook/61, #tomcat/60, #bzflag/59, #htc-linux/59, #edev/55, #diablofans/54, #qi-hardware/53, #curseforge/53, #maemo-ssu/46, #asterisk-dev/45, #slug/38, #sc2mapster/36, ...
Jun 12 23:46:09 <DocScrutinizer05> ~+status
Jun 12 23:46:09 <infobot> Since Wed May 30 04:14:42 2012, there have been 78 modifications, 769 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 458 commands.  I have been awake for 13d 19h 31m 27s this session, and currently reference 118600 factoids.  I'm using about 24668 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 3882.19/84.91 child 0/0
Jun 12 23:46:23 <merlin1991> this can't be true
Jun 12 23:46:27 <robbiethe1st> 0 morons?
Jun 12 23:46:30 <merlin1991> yep
Jun 12 23:46:30 <robbiethe1st> WTF?
Jun 12 23:46:31 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed
Jun 12 23:46:34 <merlin1991> exactly my thought
Jun 12 23:46:44 <DocScrutinizer05> I never found out how to create morons
Jun 12 23:46:51 <merlin1991> ~moron
Jun 12 23:46:51 <infobot> well, moron is someone that types long lines starting with "infobot"
Jun 12 23:47:13 <merlin1991> infobot is totally not a bot, it's just docs 2nd pc you know?
Jun 12 23:47:24 <merlin1991> ~+status
Jun 12 23:47:24 <infobot> Since Wed May 30 04:14:42 2012, there have been 78 modifications, 770 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 458 commands.  I have been awake for 13d 19h 32m 42s this session, and currently reference 118600 factoids.  I'm using about 24668 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 3882.48/84.95 child 0/0
Jun 12 23:47:33 <merlin1991> nope that's not it :D
Jun 12 23:47:34 <DocScrutinizer05> toldya
Jun 12 23:47:58 <robbiethe1st> infobot moron moron moron moron moron moron moron moron moron moron moron moron moron moron moron moron moron moron moron moron moron moron moron moron moron moron
Jun 12 23:48:01 <DocScrutinizer05> Latest version: 1.5.3 @ https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=2241 || SVN: http://infobot.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/infobot/
Jun 12 23:48:04 <robbiethe1st> ~+status
Jun 12 23:48:05 <infobot> Since Wed May 30 04:14:42 2012, there have been 78 modifications, 770 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 458 commands.  I have been awake for 13d 19h 33m 23s this session, and currently reference 118600 factoids.  I'm using about 24668 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 3882.64/84.98 child 0/0
Jun 12 23:48:12 <robbiethe1st> Yup, not working
Jun 12 23:49:08 <DocScrutinizer05> if you find out, let me know ;-)
Jun 12 23:49:27 <merlin1991> ~veresion
Jun 12 23:49:34 <merlin1991> ~version
Jun 12 23:49:34 <infobot> somebody said version was for the kernel "uname -r", for your distro "cat /etc/*-release" or "lsb_release -d". For other applications, try running it with a --version command.
Jun 12 23:49:39 <DocScrutinizer05> ~version
Jun 12 23:49:47 <DocScrutinizer05> ~*version
Jun 12 23:49:51 <DocScrutinizer05> dang
Jun 12 23:49:55 <merlin1991> ~+version
Jun 12 23:49:56 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, version is for the kernel "uname -r", for your distro "cat /etc/*-release" or "lsb_release -d". For other applications, try running it with a --version command.
Jun 12 23:49:57 <DocScrutinizer05> ~+version
Jun 12 23:50:03 <merlin1991> srly
Jun 12 23:50:06 <merlin1991> infobot is evil
Jun 12 23:50:12 <DocScrutinizer05> lol
Jun 12 23:50:20 <DocScrutinizer05> ~attack merlin1991
Jun 12 23:50:20 * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing merlin1991
Jun 12 23:50:32 <merlin1991> ~lart DocScrutinizer05
Jun 12 23:50:32 * infobot takes a large goose feather pillow and swings it wildly in DocScrutinizer05's direction, hitting DocScrutinizer05 and sending DocScrutinizer05 flying into the closet
Jun 12 23:51:39 <DocScrutinizer05> ~rot13 DocScrutinizer
Jun 12 23:51:40 <infobot> QbpFpehgvavmre
Jun 12 23:51:46 <DocScrutinizer05> ZGH
Jun 12 23:51:51 <DocScrutinizer05> UGH even
Jun 12 23:52:17 <merlin1991> oh shit
Jun 12 23:52:23 <DocScrutinizer05> ~upsidedown DocScrutinizer05
Jun 12 23:52:25 <infobot> ᔕ0ɹǝzı̣uı̣ʇnɹɔSɔop
Jun 12 23:52:41 <merlin1991> perl
Jun 12 23:52:45 <DocScrutinizer05> muhaha the "%" a tragig fail
Jun 12 23:53:00 <DocScrutinizer05> the "5"
Jun 12 23:53:09 <merlin1991> also a clean checkout ist 25 mb ;)
Jun 12 23:53:43 <DocScrutinizer05> >> I'm using about 24668 kB of memory.
Jun 12 23:53:55 <SpeedEvil> ~upsidedown ✈
Jun 12 23:53:57 <infobot> ✈
Jun 12 23:54:02 <DocScrutinizer05> lol
Jun 12 23:54:27 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd have expected the plane to fly to the left
Jun 12 23:55:03 <merlin1991> infobot longerthan64charslongtesxt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jun 12 23:55:09 <GeneralAntilles> Woody14619, have at it.
Jun 12 23:55:12 <merlin1991> ~+status
Jun 12 23:55:13 <infobot> Since Wed May 30 04:14:42 2012, there have been 78 modifications, 773 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 462 commands.  I have been awake for 13d 19h 40m 30s this session, and currently reference 118600 factoids.  I'm using about 24668 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 3883.74/85.16 child 0/0
Jun 12 23:55:22 <DocScrutinizer05> infobot: longerthan64charslongtesxt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jun 12 23:55:45 <merlin1991> that was the first moron related thing grep found :D
Jun 12 23:55:53 <merlin1991> text longer than 64 chars to parse
Jun 12 23:56:13 <DocScrutinizer05> attention key is either infobot: or ~
Jun 12 23:56:29 <DocScrutinizer05> unless...
Jun 12 23:56:34 <merlin1991> ~+status
Jun 12 23:56:34 <infobot> Since Wed May 30 04:14:42 2012, there have been 78 modifications, 773 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 462 commands.  I have been awake for 13d 19h 41m 52s this session, and currently reference 118600 factoids.  I'm using about 24668 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 3884.04/85.23 child 0/0
Jun 12 23:56:40 <DocScrutinizer05> thanks to apt we got fun here
Jun 12 23:56:42 <merlin1991> didn't work anyways ;)
Jun 12 23:56:48 <DocScrutinizer05> meh
Jun 12 23:57:01 <DocScrutinizer05> ~+uptime
Jun 12 23:57:01 <infobot> - Uptime for purl -
Jun 12 23:57:02 <infobot> Now: 13d 19h 42m 19s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux
Jun 12 23:57:03 <infobot> 1: 59d 8h 41m 19s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Sun Nov 14 18:39:57 2010
Jun 12 23:57:03 <infobot> 2: 57d 3h 9m 23s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Fri Jun 26 20:39:27 2009
Jun 12 23:57:03 <infobot> 3: 36d 20h 47m 14s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Tue Aug  4 17:38:59 2009
Jun 12 23:57:08 <DocScrutinizer05> PURL!!
Jun 12 23:57:11 <DocScrutinizer05> ~die
Jun 12 23:57:12 * infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless.
Jun 12 23:57:18 <DocScrutinizer05> hah
Jun 12 23:57:23 <DocScrutinizer05> survived
Jun 12 23:58:29 <DocScrutinizer05> I think she acts oin "thanks to apt we do x y", but only when primary instance is 'apt'
Jun 12 23:59:22 <DocScrutinizer05> occasionally she answers "you're welcome" on those sentences without key
Jun 12 23:59:44 <SonOfDagobah> ~+uptime
Jun 12 23:59:45 <infobot> - Uptime for purl -
Jun 12 23:59:46 <infobot> Now: 13d 19h 45m 2s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux
Jun 12 23:59:46 <infobot> 1: 59d 8h 41m 19s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Sun Nov 14 18:39:57 2010
Jun 12 23:59:46 <infobot> 2: 57d 3h 9m 23s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Fri Jun 26 20:39:27 2009
Jun 12 23:59:46 <infobot> 3: 36d 20h 47m 14s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Tue Aug  4 17:38:59 2009
Jun 13 00:00:04 <DocScrutinizer05> I honestly shouldn't kill her just to swap personality
Jun 13 00:00:21 <XDS2010_> Could someone just take a look at this really quick i wanted to try some experiments and see if i could port some of the newer features from waze into maemo (yes i know there is an existing port) however cant make out whats going on with the existing android source
Jun 13 00:00:48 <merlin1991> XDS2010_: that's very specific ;)
Jun 13 00:00:51 <DocScrutinizer05> ~ask
Jun 13 00:00:51 <infobot> Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.
Jun 13 00:00:53 <XDS2010_> or if or not its even complete and build-able 
Jun 13 00:01:38 <XDS2010_> taken from http://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/Source_code , unless im missing something its incomplete and missing the build prop
Jun 13 00:02:34 <merlin1991> okay anybody who wants to find morons, Core.pl at the very end
Jun 13 00:02:39 <merlin1991> and I have nfc how you get there
Jun 13 00:02:56 <DocScrutinizer05> dafaq, 90min wasted on IRC. I could sleep...
Jun 13 00:03:53 <merlin1991> could/should/would?
Jun 13 00:03:54 <DocScrutinizer05> merlin1991: you don't need to drop +o after 5 min ;-)
Jun 13 00:04:11 <DocScrutinizer05> it will drop automagically if you rejoin
Jun 13 00:04:13 <merlin1991> what where? I'm confused
Jun 13 00:04:23 <merlin1991> I never ever rejoin ;)
Jun 13 00:04:39 <merlin1991> unless there are netsplits or my server goes down :$
Jun 13 00:05:06 * merlin1991 prepares kickban script
Jun 13 00:05:15 <DocScrutinizer05> (I could however understand you don't like the tag)
Jun 13 00:05:18 * merlin1991 realizes quassel has no script engine
Jun 13 00:05:20 <merlin1991> dang
Jun 13 00:06:16 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway, beautify the topic! n8
Jun 13 00:09:15 <robbiethe1st> Use Xchat instead!
Jun 13 00:09:48 <DocScrutinizer05> xchat has a decent script engine?
Jun 13 00:10:45 <DocScrutinizer05> not that a +q *@* needs any scrript engine ;-P
Jun 13 00:11:10 <DocScrutinizer05> a /kickall neither
Jun 13 00:11:28 <DocScrutinizer05> but I think merlin1991is just kidding
Jun 13 00:12:26 <DocScrutinizer05> esp since a +o is easily chenged to a +b
Jun 13 00:12:58 <merlin1991> DocScrutinizer05: xchat has python and perl plugins
Jun 13 00:13:26 <robbiethe1st> Yeah. Once you can use something like Python and can run shell commands... the sky's the limit!
Jun 13 00:14:10 <DocScrutinizer05> merlin1991: alas not on N900 default build
Jun 13 00:14:27 <DocScrutinizer05> RST38h refused to add that 
Jun 13 00:14:43 <robbiethe1st> What? Why?!?
Jun 13 00:14:59 <DocScrutinizer05> mem footprint
Jun 13 00:15:19 <robbiethe1st> Like... how much?
Jun 13 00:15:29 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm d'accord with that
Jun 13 00:16:05 <DocScrutinizer05> robbiethe1st: dunno, offer xchat+ package!
Jun 13 00:16:38 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm the first to install
Jun 13 00:16:50 <merlin1991> robbiethe1st: actually  Iguess he did it due to python itself
Jun 13 00:17:05 <merlin1991> the system python on mameo is a bitch to embed
Jun 13 00:17:18 <merlin1991> all the default build scripts don't work thanks to scratchbox sourcery
Jun 13 00:17:20 <DocScrutinizer05> sth like that
Jun 13 00:17:53 <robbiethe1st> Why not make it depend on a more sane python package?
Jun 13 00:17:54 <DocScrutinizer05> he said "F U, do it yourself!" (OWTTE) ;-P
Jun 13 00:18:10 <robbiethe1st> Like they did with busybox advanced package
Jun 13 00:18:11 <merlin1991> also X-Chat wants python >= 2.6
Jun 13 00:18:16 <merlin1991> maemo has 2.5.4
Jun 13 00:18:34 <DocScrutinizer05> ~messybox
Jun 13 00:18:34 <infobot> messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils
Jun 13 00:18:36 <DocScrutinizer05> ~messybox
Jun 13 00:18:37 <merlin1991> if you build that more sane python package go ahread :D
Jun 13 00:18:43 <DocScrutinizer05> ~messybox
Jun 13 00:18:43 <infobot> messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils
Jun 13 00:18:53 <DocScrutinizer05> errrr good night
Jun 13 00:18:58 <merlin1991> see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11031
Jun 13 00:19:14 <merlin1991> ah wait wrong bug 
Jun 13 00:20:16 <merlin1991> hm can't find the bug now, but there is a silly dependency within the maemo system debs which basically nukes any sane attempt to update pythong
Jun 13 00:20:19 <merlin1991> *python*
Jun 13 00:20:23 <DocScrutinizer05> dang I deleted a post 5 times now
Jun 13 00:20:33 <DocScrutinizer05> sth is odd with IRC
Jun 13 00:22:40 <merlin1991> there we go, prettyfied ;)
Jun 13 00:32:16 <DocScrutinizer05> nice enough :-D
Jun 13 00:32:34 <DocScrutinizer05> or maybe not, I'm always open for the better
Jun 13 02:23:22 <Sazpaimon> hey so
Jun 13 02:23:46 <Sazpaimon> how can I use my N900 with no sim as a google voice phone
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jun 13 02:59:58 2012