**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun 23 02:59:58 2012
Jun 23 03:55:33 <Macer> wayland inc. bought apple
Jun 23 03:55:46 <Macer> in 2020 when apple was on the brink of bankruptcy
Jun 23 04:33:53 <Hurrian> ...it seems that the CA results thread on TMO got pretty ugly
Jun 23 05:37:29 <freemangordon> Hurrian:become? It's been that way for the past few days. 
Jun 23 08:43:12 <MohammadAG> morning, the situation on tmo is bad
Jun 23 08:49:21 <Neutron__> what do you mean by bad?
Jun 23 08:50:47 <NIN101> the CA 
Jun 23 08:51:51 <Hurrian> it's awful, really.
Jun 23 09:00:28 <Hurrian> side note, I have noticed that abill_uk is back, and stirring up noise (not the good kind) on TMO once again
Jun 23 09:37:56 <jonwil> Finally found a repair place that can fix my N900 :)
Jun 23 09:44:45 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jun 23 09:48:51 <jonwil> Going to take a couple weeks for the parts to arrive though
Jun 23 09:49:02 <jonwil> I will keep using my phone in the mean time
Jun 23 09:49:13 <jonwil> and just be careful of the broken front bezel
Jun 23 11:19:07 <merlin1991> gotta love http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1226087&postcount=283
Jun 23 11:22:18 <Sicelo> Lol. 
Jun 23 11:24:02 <NIN101> let's see how this mess develops.
Jun 23 11:26:14 <vi__> It is not pretty. Things are getting personal now.
Jun 23 11:26:33 <merlin1991> and I still don't see why people are so worked up
Jun 23 11:26:48 <vi__> merlin1991: because they did not win.
Jun 23 11:27:09 <merlin1991> Ie the council members shouldn't get *free* stuff was discussed on the mailing list long before the submission period started
Jun 23 11:27:34 <vi__> merlin1991: what was the conclusion to the discussion?
Jun 23 11:27:44 <merlin1991> it's fine
Jun 23 11:28:03 <merlin1991> int other words not what the people in the thread claim
Jun 23 11:30:42 <Viltzu> hurr
Jun 23 11:30:55 <merlin1991> see http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2012-May/005259.html and the follow ups
Jun 23 11:31:14 <Viltzu> When I'm doing make it will search headers and why not from /opt/maemo/usr/include when it should be getting them fron /usr/include
Jun 23 11:31:17 <Viltzu> What to do?
Jun 23 11:32:16 <merlin1991> Viltzu: did you move the hearders there by hand?
Jun 23 11:32:23 <merlin1991> or did they get installed there?
Jun 23 11:32:44 <Viltzu> They were installed there
Jun 23 11:32:49 <Viltzu> I'm using tanners gcc-4.4
Jun 23 11:32:51 <NIN101> of course the people who got one won't complain. I didn't even apply (so it should be kinda neutral), but my main point of criticism are  the intransparent decisions. For some, it's obvious why they deserve one, but for others, it's not. One sentence in the wiki about the why's is apparently to much to ask for, and no, I am not going to read tons of messed up threads on TMO where a dicsussion took place.  I also doubt the CA will help in saving 
Jun 23 11:32:52 <NIN101> maemo, at least fremantle. 
Jun 23 11:32:54 <merlin1991> also "make" does not search for headers
Jun 23 11:33:00 <vi__> could you make aegis look at a copy of the file system somewhere else all the while editing the real /etc/?
Jun 23 11:34:07 <vi__> NIN101: what do you think will be the result of listing why a persons achievments are not good enough?
Jun 23 11:34:09 <Viltzu> merlin1991: well yeah. But what I should now do? Should I just cp to the right place. I tried to create symlink for the dir to the right place but then it says Too many symbolic links :P
Jun 23 11:34:35 <merlin1991> which header exactly are you missing?
Jun 23 11:34:55 <Viltzu> http://viltzu.kapsi.fi/output.out
Jun 23 11:35:23 <Viltzu> And those can be found from /usr/include/c++/4.4/ and so on.
Jun 23 11:36:27 <merlin1991> Viltzu: build the make file with the verbosity flag from cmake, so that you see the actual call to gcc
Jun 23 11:36:50 <NIN101> vi_: some kind of transparency. 
Jun 23 11:40:42 <Viltzu> merlin1991, set(CMAKE_VERBOSE_MAKEFILE on) in CMakeLists.txt?
Jun 23 11:43:15 <Viltzu> http://viltzu.kapsi.fi/output
Jun 23 11:44:31 <Viltzu> örh.
Jun 23 11:44:34 <merlin1991> I'd check what /home/maemo/cbE/src/precomp.h really includes on line 7
Jun 23 11:44:44 <merlin1991> because the gcc call contains no hint to opt
Jun 23 11:45:02 <merlin1991> unless the gcc itself has fubar opt searchpaths it has to be in the sources
Jun 23 11:45:50 <Viltzu> #include <map> on line 7.
Jun 23 11:47:52 <merlin1991> Viltzu: hm, CFLAGS / CPPFLAGS ?
Jun 23 11:48:21 <Viltzu> wa?
Jun 23 11:48:49 <merlin1991> the environment variables CFLAGS / CPPFLAGS are read by gcc aswell
Jun 23 11:49:45 <Viltzu> Uhm. That doesn't say really anything to me :)
Jun 23 11:50:00 <merlin1991> do echo $CFLAGS
Jun 23 11:50:06 <merlin1991> and echo $CPPFLAGS
Jun 23 11:50:12 <merlin1991> and see if they contain anything odd
Jun 23 11:50:36 <Viltzu> is that odd that they are empty?
Jun 23 11:50:46 <merlin1991> no that is normal :)
Jun 23 11:50:49 <Viltzu> ok.
Jun 23 11:50:53 <merlin1991> hm then it has to be your gcc :/
Jun 23 11:51:16 <Viltzu> I'm using tanners gcc 4.4. Added the repo and installed via apt-get.
Jun 23 11:51:40 <merlin1991> I've never used it, so I don't have any hands on experience
Jun 23 11:51:42 <merlin1991> also lunch
Jun 23 11:51:49 <Viltzu> k.
Jun 23 11:51:58 <vi__> NIN101: so if it was published "nitroid has had 0 positive effect on maemo community therefore coder does not win".  Do you think there would be no arguments?
Jun 23 11:54:19 <NIN101> there would be. But at least we would know the WHYs. WHY someone got one, and why another didn't. 
Jun 23 12:06:59 <DocScrutinizer05> who cares?
Jun 23 12:07:49 <DocScrutinizer05> look - *if* I had applied I would know for sure about the true reasons why I wouldn't have received one
Jun 23 12:10:17 <DocScrutinizer05> so for the "why not" it's usually very obvious. For the "why anybody at all received this 'Award' ?" I already elaborated yesterday with woody that I fail to see the point of this whole action/mess, and in my opinion council better had kept the whole pool for handing out spare devices on a by-demand basis
Jun 23 12:11:13 <NIN101> my main point is:  without reasons I can think this is a farce. Why should I believe the opposite? 
Jun 23 12:11:41 <DocScrutinizer05> it is, you don't need to think opposite
Jun 23 12:11:55 <vi__> NIN101: Without discussing individual cases we are 'beating around the bush'
Jun 23 12:12:01 <jacekowski> if it were up to me, there would be no CA and no problems
Jun 23 12:12:13 <DocScrutinizer05> exactly
Jun 23 12:12:18 <jacekowski> maemo is pretty much a dead platform
Jun 23 12:12:19 <jacekowski> who cares
Jun 23 12:12:40 <DocScrutinizer05> meego is
Jun 23 12:12:52 <vi__> So is amiga OS, what is your point?
Jun 23 12:14:20 <DocScrutinizer05> NIN101: on no DDP ever the reasons been discussed in public - we all agreed this would be useless public bashing for all those who failed
Jun 23 12:15:07 <NIN101> well.
Jun 23 12:16:51 <kwtm> I've had 2 cases now where I did not get a chance to recharge the N900 before it shut down due to low battery, and now the battery appears useless (tried recharging it via another N900 and from external Nokia charger, with no response).  Is this a known phenomenon or should I expect to be able to have usable batteries after N900 shuts down from battery low?
Jun 23 12:17:15 <jacekowski> kwtm: plug it in into usb charger
Jun 23 12:17:19 <jacekowski> kwtm: and wait few hours
Jun 23 12:17:42 <DocScrutinizer05> and honestly, you'll *always* find "better" rationale and winners in a public aftermath than those who did the hard job of selecting came up with. and it helps exactly nothing but adds tention and noise to community
Jun 23 12:18:18 <kwtm> jacekowski: Hmm... I had plugged it into charge for a while, and the charger light even changed to blue from pink, so I thought it was fully charged.  Wonder if it's the N900 itself. Maybe I can try a "universal" charger instead of Nokia's.
Jun 23 12:18:46 <DocScrutinizer05> err WUT
Jun 23 12:19:12 <vi__> blue->pink???
Jun 23 12:19:18 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah ?????
Jun 23 12:19:21 <kwtm> no pink -> blue
Jun 23 12:19:31 <vi__> wtf even more.
Jun 23 12:19:44 <DocScrutinizer05> there's neither blue nor pink involved in charging indication
Jun 23 12:20:08 <kwtm> Ah.  When you say USB charger you mean the N900 itself?  I was talking about an external charger.
Jun 23 12:20:26 <DocScrutinizer05> the supposed colors are amber (red + green) and green (just green)
Jun 23 12:21:32 <kwtm> I'm going to see if I can dig up an alternate battery for my N900, just to prove to myself it's the battery, and then I'll fiddle with the battery.
Jun 23 12:22:45 <DocScrutinizer05> if you get blue and pink, it seems you got a pre-summit device with messed up indicator LED hardwiring
Jun 23 12:22:57 <DocScrutinizer05> that got flashed with standard software
Jun 23 12:24:03 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: that doesnt exist.
Jun 23 12:24:15 <DocScrutinizer05> you can look up the actual swap of colors in lp5523.c for yourself
Jun 23 12:24:40 <vi__> Possibly a second hand device with a modified MCE.ini
Jun 23 12:24:53 <DocScrutinizer05> dafaq
Jun 23 12:25:14 <DocScrutinizer05> you can't modify mce.ini in a way that even NOLO would change to pink
Jun 23 12:25:37 <DocScrutinizer05> not to mention hardwired amber of emergency charging
Jun 23 12:26:23 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway, resetting mce.ini to defaults is a sane suggestion :-)
Jun 23 12:27:06 <DocScrutinizer05> we've seen devices with smoked-up green in 3-color LED
Jun 23 12:27:17 <DocScrutinizer05> which gave some strange notification colors
Jun 23 12:27:23 <DocScrutinizer05> of course
Jun 23 12:28:15 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway
Jun 23 12:28:32 <DocScrutinizer05> kwtm: you shouldn't deplete battery til emergency shutdown
Jun 23 12:28:48 <DocScrutinizer05> you shouldn't try to reboot device with depleted battery. 
Jun 23 12:29:11 <DocScrutinizer05> and yes, eventually battery will just cease to work in very much the way you descriobed
Jun 23 12:30:02 <DocScrutinizer05> no, any "universal charger" usually will way more likely kill your battery than treat it nice
Jun 23 12:32:56 <DocScrutinizer05> kwtm: I dunno what acme-bat-apps and supadupa-kernels incl borked modules you got installed on your N900. I suggest: a) get fresh and charged BL-5J, *FLASH* your N900 to stock kernel and no too 1337 apps, try using it in a normal way, see if that pans out
Jun 23 12:35:17 <DocScrutinizer05> b) try charging the supposedly broken battery in external charger and see what operational time it gives you in N900 till shutdown. Use bq27200-detail.sh script to produce a nice log of battery current and voltage, come back here and offer that log for analysis
Jun 23 12:39:34 <zeq_laptop> Hi guys!
Jun 23 12:39:58 <vi__> hello.
Jun 23 12:40:05 <vi__> good morning squire.
Jun 23 12:40:22 <zeq_laptop> Hello vi__ 
Jun 23 12:40:29 <zeq_laptop> afternoon here :)
Jun 23 12:42:18 <vi__> ~UGT
Jun 23 12:42:18 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
Jun 23 12:42:49 <zeq_laptop> thanks infobot 
Jun 23 12:42:57 <zeq_laptop> didn't know that
Jun 23 12:43:15 <zeq_laptop> mornig vi__ :)
Jun 23 12:43:22 <vi__> :)
Jun 23 12:43:29 <zeq_laptop> s/mornig/morning/
Jun 23 12:43:30 <infobot> zeq_laptop meant: morning vi__ :)
Jun 23 12:43:44 <zeq_laptop> typing like it's the morning!
Jun 23 12:43:46 <zeq_laptop> ;)
Jun 23 12:46:12 <merlin1991> DocScrutinizer05: in case you missed it, his led colours were not from the n900 but from an external charger :D
Jun 23 12:46:26 <DocScrutinizer05> aaah
Jun 23 12:46:58 <DocScrutinizer05> damn, was searching WTF this pre-summit-color-swap #ifdef been ;-P
Jun 23 12:47:45 <DocScrutinizer05> extremely funny detail you can learn from proofreading driver sources
Jun 23 12:48:04 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm afraid they refctored it out in later upstreamed versions
Jun 23 12:50:01 <Raimu> Mmm... pink n900...
Jun 23 12:53:58 <DocScrutinizer05> http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/kernel-source-diablo-2.6.21/kernel-source/drivers/i2c/chips/lp5521.c#31
Jun 23 12:54:06 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe was on N810
Jun 23 12:55:23 <vi__> merlin1991: wait..what?
Jun 23 12:55:33 <vi__> such a minor piece of information.
Jun 23 12:55:52 <vi__> We have failed as engineers.
Jun 23 12:56:02 <vi__> We assumed he was talking about the n900 LED.
Jun 23 12:56:35 <vi__> You know what they say; when you assume, you make a total cock of yourself.
Jun 23 12:58:52 <DocScrutinizer06> dman reconnects
Jun 23 12:58:54 <DocScrutinizer06> spaming questions relating to a clearly defined hw topic with random shit drawn from unrelated other hw isn't exactly helping
Jun 23 13:02:04 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway, vi_ you might enjoy this mxr line ref I posted above
Jun 23 13:02:47 <DocScrutinizer05> 31 #ifdef LED_CONNECTED_WRONG 32 #define LP5521_REG_R_PWM                0x04 33 #define LP5521_REG_B_PWM                0x02 34 #else 35 #define LP5521_REG_R_PWM                0x02 36 #define LP5521_REG_B_PWM                0x04 37 #endif
Jun 23 13:02:47 <vi__> #ifdef LED_CONNECTED_WRONG
Jun 23 13:03:49 <DocScrutinizer05> obviously for some prototypes they swapped red and blue LED
Jun 23 13:05:27 <DocScrutinizer05> and I *seem* to recall somebody inside NOK told me this been for the pre-summit N900, where maybe they still used lp5521.ko to drive the indicator LED
Jun 23 13:09:06 <DocScrutinizer05> vi__: your "that doesn't exist" based on hard facts?
Jun 23 13:10:36 <DocScrutinizer05> vi__: you know pre-summit device owners always been supposed to NOT flash standard software, and rather wait for the special build that Nokia may or may not provoide for their very special devices
Jun 23 13:19:33 * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders how such bord specific defines belong into $chipdriver.c
Jun 23 13:20:57 <DocScrutinizer05> I mean it's not like as the chip had written "RED" to pin4 and "BLUE" to pin5. This may change massively for any other board using LP5523
Jun 23 13:21:43 <DocScrutinizer05> clear case of vendor specific driver sources that aren't exactly fit for upstreaming
Jun 23 13:22:21 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: I was partially joking.
Jun 23 13:22:32 <DocScrutinizer05> not that the LP5523 driver was any good for upstreaming anyway, regarding the very partial implementation of chip properties
Jun 23 13:23:53 <DocScrutinizer05> LP5523 can do iirc 96 program steps, "partitioned" in arbitrary ways between the 3 engines. lp5523.c allows a mere 16 steps per engine, wasting the other 48 steps
Jun 23 13:24:22 <DocScrutinizer05> (actually wasting only 47, as they use one step for default LED mapping/muxing)
Jun 23 13:25:22 <DocScrutinizer05> pretty retarded design for a generic upstream linux LP5523 driver
Jun 23 13:27:19 <MohammadAG> #ifdef LED_CONNECTED_WRONG <-- lololol
Jun 23 13:27:34 <MohammadAG> anyway, who wants to fix tmo's community awards thread
Jun 23 13:27:39 <MohammadAG> it's going downhill, fast
Jun 23 13:27:46 <MohammadAG> I expect the next meetup to be a riot
Jun 23 13:28:22 * DocScrutinizer05 glances at the dusty yellow end of his ToDo list and spots "fix lp5523.c to allow full use of all chip features, esp. the doubled program step storage space"
Jun 23 13:28:47 <DocScrutinizer05> MohammadAG: ping chem|st
Jun 23 13:28:54 <Hurrian> MohammadAG, how do you calm down angry TMOers who want their phones?
Jun 23 13:28:55 <zeq_laptop> finally managed to build gcc-linaro-4.7-2012.06 ARM cross-compiler for scratchbox.  (only x86_64 atm, might need an actual x86 distro to build 32bit; canadian-cross doesn't seem to be working...)
Jun 23 13:29:01 <MohammadAG> this isn't a mod thing DocScrutinizer05 
Jun 23 13:29:09 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed
Jun 23 13:29:10 <MohammadAG> it needs to be handled well by the council
Jun 23 13:29:16 <DocScrutinizer05> so what you gonna do now, boy?
Jun 23 13:29:23 <DocScrutinizer05> LOL
Jun 23 13:29:59 <MohammadAG> Hurrian, tbh I see why they're angry
Jun 23 13:30:26 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm way more concerned about http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1226178&postcount=298
Jun 23 13:30:55 <MohammadAG> I'm more concerned about the theme he's using
Jun 23 13:31:12 <DocScrutinizer05> no, same here, with my theme
Jun 23 13:31:25 <DocScrutinizer05> I suspect a fsckup in mysql
Jun 23 13:31:26 <MohammadAG> Hurrian, you don't fix this, you cancel results and change judges
Jun 23 13:31:39 <MohammadAG> I suspect a fuck up in viewthread.php
Jun 23 13:31:50 <MohammadAG> or the fact he's french
Jun 23 13:31:57 <DocScrutinizer05> haha
Jun 23 13:32:00 <MohammadAG> I kid, I kid
Jun 23 13:32:13 <Hurrian> MohammadAG, probably changed email and didnt confirm
Jun 23 13:32:24 <ZogG_laptop> MohammadAG: so speak up, it's apitty a lot of people do not speak up
Jun 23 13:32:34 <MohammadAG> ZogG_laptop, it's no use
Jun 23 13:32:46 <vi__> ZogG_laptop: It is no use.  You will get flamed in half.
Jun 23 13:32:49 <ZogG_laptop> MohammadAG: why not?
Jun 23 13:32:53 <MohammadAG> exactly that
Jun 23 13:33:08 <ZogG_laptop> vi__: i tried to be general and ask straight question
Jun 23 13:33:41 <vi__> ZogG_laptop: which was?
Jun 23 13:33:45 <MohammadAG> regardless this won't be fixed
Jun 23 13:33:46 <DocScrutinizer05> http://talk.maemo.org/post_thanks.php?do=post_thanks_add&p=1226165&securitytoken=1340453078-7065ec7e993a2f6813761f1f7b1d8c8415 works when I post it. same with s/p=1226165/p=1226193/ doesn't
Jun 23 13:33:57 * vi__ gingerly approaches the can of worms.
Jun 23 13:33:57 <ZogG_laptop> but i was ignored and council and defenders instead of answering just picked up those who was less reasonable and used it to put all of us in same boat to call all of us trolls =)
Jun 23 13:34:04 <MohammadAG> I'm thinking of submitting something to the Qt 5 awards
Jun 23 13:34:08 <MohammadAG> or the app awards
Jun 23 13:34:25 <MohammadAG> and if I win, give the N9 I won there to someone
Jun 23 13:34:59 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm thinking of declaring maemo.org community officially entered lunatic state at 2012-06-20
Jun 23 13:35:00 <ZogG_laptop> vi__: how it is possible that the same competition can be judged by peple in list
Jun 23 13:35:12 <ZogG_laptop> vi__: it's not about if they worth or not
Jun 23 13:35:16 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe even a few weeks before
Jun 23 13:35:27 <Hurrian> DocScrutinizer05, the entire community awards thing has been hectic for maemo.org
Jun 23 13:35:31 <ZogG_laptop> but most answeres were personal and about how worth they are... but it's not related
Jun 23 13:35:45 <jaska> make troll.maemo.org a cname for talk.maemo.org?
Jun 23 13:36:37 <MohammadAG> it's not right
Jun 23 13:36:40 <MohammadAG> I agree about that
Jun 23 13:36:49 <ZogG_laptop> jaska: it's easy to call troll anyone who has his own point of view and try to prove it? than other person is not less troll than first as there are always two sides of coins
Jun 23 13:36:50 <MohammadAG> whether they deserve it or not, you can't have judges in a competition
Jun 23 13:37:08 <DocScrutinizer05> I stated my "official" POV regarding the whole CA several times, won't repeat
Jun 23 13:37:31 <jaska> zogg: i wasnt referring to any specific conversation. just think that the name would fit.
Jun 23 13:37:39 <ZogG_laptop> MohammadAG: than speak up, they just say it's only 4 people and they ignore reasonable things and answer for those who just really not releated
Jun 23 13:37:44 <DocScrutinizer05> council need and always had all hardware for reference purposes
Jun 23 13:38:07 <ZogG_laptop> DocScrutinizer05: what reference?
Jun 23 13:38:18 <vi__> Easy.  The council win automatically as they have been selected as the community champions.  The rest of the loot goes to whomever they decide should win.
Jun 23 13:38:19 <DocScrutinizer05> mixing this up with a CA is a terrible idea, but no worries as the whole CA been a rather toxic idea in itself
Jun 23 13:38:48 <ZogG_laptop> vi__: how is it possible, i didn't choose them as a lot of people who don't want to be in politics
Jun 23 13:40:12 <ZogG_laptop> as well as i think there are more worthy and reasonable people to be council(not all curent memebers but few)but they understand those resposobilities and don't want to take them, as others who want don't understand them
Jun 23 13:40:28 <vi__> ZogG_laptop: no, however they were elected fairly.
Jun 23 13:41:05 <ZogG_laptop> look at MohammadAG he even don't want to speak up, as he doesn't want to ennter politics here, as a lot of reasonable people don't too. but i just feel if i don't speak up no one will, than it would pass like it was okay
Jun 23 13:41:39 <ZogG_laptop> vi__: so? how is it related? than lets make community award judged by memebers
Jun 23 13:41:55 <ZogG_laptop> those two things that they were elected as council do not related
Jun 23 13:42:01 <ZogG_laptop> and if, those people to judge
Jun 23 13:42:20 <ZogG_laptop> i would never say if i'm elected i worth to win in community.
Jun 23 13:42:37 <ZogG_laptop> it's like your work manager would give price to himself
Jun 23 13:42:37 <MohammadAG> vi_, it was  tough choice, 5 got elected and 5 got chosen
Jun 23 13:43:13 <ZogG_laptop> what? he is mamanger already means he works harder than others and is promoted so all money prices would go to him automaticaly?
Jun 23 13:43:18 <DocScrutinizer05> MohammadAG: hm?
Jun 23 13:43:53 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer05, we barely got a council this year iirc
Jun 23 13:44:22 <DocScrutinizer05> I honestly think we need a way to vote "void"
Jun 23 13:44:55 <DocScrutinizer05> if amount of void votes > amount of votes for a candidate, the candidate won't get elected
Jun 23 13:45:14 <MohammadAG> then typedef Sam void; typedef Jill void, typedef John void and we have a new council
Jun 23 13:45:32 <DocScrutinizer05> if that results in _no_ council at all, after elections, so be it
Jun 23 13:45:33 <ZogG_laptop> vi__: for example few people think you don't deserve, but i don't really care, as this is their choice and always someone will think it's not right, so i'm neutral here whenever i think you have right or not. But self judging is something different
Jun 23 13:46:05 <MohammadAG> tbh, itsnotabigtruck should get one
Jun 23 13:46:16 <MohammadAG> inception, although hated by some, was useful
Jun 23 13:46:17 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Jun 23 13:46:24 <MohammadAG> plus he's helpful on IRC
Jun 23 13:46:27 <FIQ|n900> hm... a council with 1 attending
Jun 23 13:46:28 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Jun 23 13:46:36 <MohammadAG> I usually don't vote people up, but since he's not here :P
Jun 23 13:46:59 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway, this cheese is eaten
Jun 23 13:47:14 <MohammadAG> e-yes might have helped with NITDroid, but I'm not sure if that merits a device
Jun 23 13:47:24 <MohammadAG> nothing personal, it's just not the _maemo_ community
Jun 23 13:47:39 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed
Jun 23 13:47:47 <MohammadAG> and without referencing names, closed source people shouldn't get a device
Jun 23 13:47:51 <ZogG_laptop> DocScrutinizer05: today when everything falling down we need few people to lead community, but here i mean dids and not talking and showing how important them. it's mostly come from people that don't show themselve too much and not seen too much. I think a good example is X-Fade. i don't see him active lately in communication, but i know he makes a lot contribution with repos and cobs and other stuff
Jun 23 13:47:54 <MohammadAG> it's COMMUNITY!! awards
Jun 23 13:48:19 <vi__> ZogG_laptop: what a load of shit.
Jun 23 13:48:31 <vi__> The employees do not CHOOSE the manager.
Jun 23 13:48:42 <MohammadAG> they get fired if they don't? :P
Jun 23 13:48:52 <vi__> Nokia, yeah.
Jun 23 13:49:05 <vi__> NOKIA decided who would choose the winners.
Jun 23 13:49:20 <vi__> The people who provided the prizes.
Jun 23 13:49:28 <ZogG_laptop> vi__: sometimes people change after they got promoted btw and in normal company the promoting people gather data about person from co-wokers
Jun 23 13:49:46 <vi__> ZogG_laptop: the analogy is invalid.  Drop it.
Jun 23 13:50:12 <MohammadAG> ZogG_laptop, there's nothing you could do now
Jun 23 13:50:32 <ZogG_laptop> vi__: it's make me angry and amusing, that you think i'm less stuborn than you, as i think it is the same example
Jun 23 13:50:32 <MohammadAG> if anything would make you feel better, submit an app to the app awards and give your N9 to someone else
Jun 23 13:50:44 <MohammadAG> I'm actually thinking of doing that for itsnotabigtruck
Jun 23 13:51:02 <MohammadAG> nothing personal, his shit helped me, his shit can't be submitted to those awards
Jun 23 13:51:06 <ZogG_laptop> MohammadAG: actually i thought of it, as i should recieve N9 soon on other award
Jun 23 13:51:20 <MohammadAG> ZogG_laptop, you won in community awards?
Jun 23 13:51:29 <MohammadAG> I never memorized the list tbh
Jun 23 13:52:01 <ZogG_laptop> MohammadAG: nope
Jun 23 13:52:08 <MohammadAG> the only problem is I can't submit for an N950 in the Qt awards
Jun 23 13:52:08 <ZogG_laptop> MohammadAG: i don't worth it
Jun 23 13:52:21 <MohammadAG> ZogG_laptop, then keep the device if you win it
Jun 23 13:52:30 <MohammadAG> I'd give it away cause I have one
Jun 23 13:52:40 <MohammadAG> and itsnotabigtruck has an N9
Jun 23 13:52:45 <MohammadAG> no use in giving him anothero ne
Jun 23 13:52:49 <ZogG_laptop> MohammadAG: i read Estel submition, i'm in the same position as ± Estel position, when there are those who worth way more
Jun 23 13:53:19 <ZogG_laptop> MohammadAG: you can take n9 and send n950 as well
Jun 23 13:53:28 <MohammadAG> again, I don't like saying X doesn't deserve something
Jun 23 13:53:35 <ZogG_laptop> but the problem you want it as dev kit and not phone
Jun 23 13:53:58 <MohammadAG> barely use it as a phone tbh
Jun 23 13:54:01 <MohammadAG> have an iPhone for that
Jun 23 13:54:10 <MohammadAG> or a Lumia, which I barely use
Jun 23 13:54:33 <MohammadAG> I wonder if anyone needs an N900
Jun 23 13:54:37 <MohammadAG> considering sending one away
Jun 23 13:55:33 <ZogG_laptop> MohammadAG: i know i don't. i think i helped a bit and tried to be always helpful and straight, but it's should come from any community memeber. Just their knowledge is different and they can't always code. But there are people like you or pali or itsnotthatbigtruck, who just deserve it, and they do not only a lot but opens source and for free. that's who deserve
Jun 23 13:55:38 <DocScrutinizer05> it's incredible how such a silly giveaway is poisoning maemo.org community. In my book all the free stuff in apps and knowledge is 10000 times more precious and appreciable than those 2 dozen devices that everybody gets worked up about now. a sad perspective on state of this community in those tough days
Jun 23 13:55:42 <ZogG_laptop> they don't search for glorry or something
Jun 23 13:55:58 <ZogG_laptop> MohammadAG: i want n900
Jun 23 13:56:04 <ZogG_laptop> MohammadAG: mine got broken
Jun 23 13:56:18 <ZogG_laptop> but on other hand if you leave maemo.... o_O
Jun 23 13:56:24 <DocScrutinizer05> MohammadAG: send it to robbiethe1st please!
Jun 23 13:56:28 <MohammadAG> I have two N900s
Jun 23 13:56:43 * ZogG_laptop is scared with less people like MohammadAG left in community =(
Jun 23 13:56:50 <MohammadAG> one's mine and one's a DDP
Jun 23 13:57:01 <MohammadAG> the DDP one is in near new condition
Jun 23 13:57:15 <MohammadAG> well, technically it's just opened from the box and used for three months
Jun 23 13:57:23 <ZogG_laptop> MohammadAG: than if you don't send to robbiethe1st, i'll be more than glad as mine is broken
Jun 23 13:57:40 <ZogG_laptop> i would have a chance to finish the very first app i started and didn't finish
Jun 23 13:57:40 <DocScrutinizer05> there are a few really valuable developers that recently got hurt by their N900 breaking
Jun 23 13:57:42 <MohammadAG> but never left my desk, I don't take it out or anything since I don't _own_ it
Jun 23 13:58:38 <FIQ|n900> speaking of new N900s, I should go and get one from second-hand soon as mine is starting to fall apart
Jun 23 13:58:51 <vi__> ZogG_laptop: If you cannot for a second consider the notion that you are wrong, then it is pointless to discuss anything.
Jun 23 13:59:04 <DocScrutinizer05> FIQ|n900: good plan :-D
Jun 23 13:59:15 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm doing that since several months now
Jun 23 13:59:28 <ZogG_laptop> vi__: but again you think i'm wrong and i think i'm right. why do you think you are the right one here =)
Jun 23 13:59:49 <vi__> ZogG_laptop: That is not what I said bro slice.
Jun 23 13:59:55 <kwtm> Can anyone point me to how to send a text message (SMS) by command-line?  Presumably it starts with  "dbus-send -bla bla bla  MyTextMessage" or something ...
Jun 23 14:00:06 <vi__> kwtm: N900?
Jun 23 14:00:19 <kwtm> vi__: Sorry, yes, talking about the N900 here.
Jun 23 14:00:20 <FIQ|n900> there's a dedicated application for this
Jun 23 14:00:25 <kwtm> Not the external battery charger.
Jun 23 14:00:32 <vi__> kwtm: there is a program (python script) called sms-send.
Jun 23 14:00:32 <FIQ|n900> whatever it was named
Jun 23 14:00:36 <vi__> It is in the repos.
Jun 23 14:00:39 <FIQ|n900> ohh, that
Jun 23 14:01:22 <kwtm> Ok.  I will check it out.  But I actually want to put the command into my shell script (actually my vimscript calls it but that's a minor detail).
Jun 23 14:01:39 <kwtm> I suppose I can look over the python script to figure out how they did it.  Thanks for the pointers.
Jun 23 14:01:57 <vi__> kwtm you can invoke sms-send through bash.
Jun 23 14:02:11 <FIQ|n900> isn't that kinda the point with sms-send? :P
Jun 23 14:02:15 <vi__> i.e. sms-send <telephone number> <your message here>
Jun 23 14:03:02 <vi__> ^/bash/sh
Jun 23 14:03:16 <kwtm> I see.  Ok, will look into that.  I am trying to get my repositories set up, actually, via command line so I will do that first ...
Jun 23 14:06:59 <ZogG_laptop> vi__: that is exactly what. as you say  If you cannot for a second consider the ....
Jun 23 14:07:33 <ZogG_laptop> i do considered both sides and took mine
Jun 23 14:09:15 <vi__> ZogG_laptop: how corrupt of you.
Jun 23 14:09:36 <DocScrutinizer05> kwtm: ~phone-control
Jun 23 14:09:38 * FIQ|n900 see flames
Jun 23 14:09:58 <FIQ|n900> s/see/sees/
Jun 23 14:10:11 <vi__> To chose your argument over anothers.  For true transparency you should have automatically discounted your own argument.
Jun 23 14:12:07 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer05: Thanks; I found that page on  http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Send_SMS  .   Do I understand correctly that the entire Python program is there and I don't need to install anything else?  Because I'm in the middle of configuring my new N900 I can't install packages like sms-send without messing with /etc/sources.list.d right now.
Jun 23 14:12:32 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Send_SMS
Jun 23 14:12:37 <DocScrutinizer05> yes :-D
Jun 23 14:13:43 <DocScrutinizer05> the 3rd one seems most complete and nice one
Jun 23 14:16:03 <DocScrutinizer05> >>There's also a python script that uses D-Bus instead from http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=558430&postcount=57:<<  <- this one
Jun 23 14:16:44 <DocScrutinizer05> at least I already used this one and tweaked it for SMSCB rcv, tested to work
Jun 23 14:17:12 <kwtm> god I LOOOOVE this N900!  
Jun 23 14:17:28 <kwtm> Disclaimer: it's still a piece of crap.  But it's the BEST piece of crap there is in the world!  :) :) 
Jun 23 14:17:38 <DocScrutinizer05> lol
Jun 23 14:17:51 <DocScrutinizer05> kwtm: wazzup buddy?
Jun 23 14:18:14 <kwtm> Looking over the phone control thing, I can't even begin to wrap my mind around the things I haven't had a chance to make my phone do.  
Jun 23 14:18:31 <kwtm> Holy cow, remote control my phone by SMS!?  (And not that "make it play some music" crap from the Android app store.)
Jun 23 14:18:41 <vi__> kwtm you wait till you discover dbus-scripts and dbus cron.  You are going to shit yourself.
Jun 23 14:18:47 <DocScrutinizer05> there's an app for that
Jun 23 14:18:49 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-d
Jun 23 14:19:43 <kwtm> Yeah, I'm going to have to look into that cron thing ... I'm going to have to use anacron because my phone keeps shutting off by accident (delays in locking screen due to swapping, before I slip it in my pocket and have something bump the "turn off phone" onscreen button)
Jun 23 14:19:45 <vi__> kwtm: You are now starting to understand why for maemo 'appz' are mostly redundant.
Jun 23 14:20:09 <vi__> kwtm: dbuscron is...different.
Jun 23 14:20:14 <kwtm> Yeah.  I spent a lot of time on this last year when I got my phone, and finally managed to dump the built-in contacts app and just make phone calls from within Vim.
Jun 23 14:20:36 <kwtm> Then I couldn't spend more time on it and the programming got left by the wayside.
Jun 23 14:20:38 <DocScrutinizer05> and anacron is... :-/. Use alarmed for those purposes
Jun 23 14:20:41 <vi__> kwtm: you can monitor dbus-system/session for program/hardware events and trigger scripts.
Jun 23 14:21:04 <kwtm> Now my wife has an iPhone where Siri can read out her text messages.  And I'm thinking, "big deal.  I have espeak for that."
Jun 23 14:21:25 <kwtm> Can't wait to start using vimscript text processing to send sms. :)
Jun 23 14:21:41 <vi__> kwtm: You want to have the time in russia spoken to you in chinese through espeak whenever you cover the proximity sensor WHILE the keyboard is open AND it is past 3AM?  You can use dbus-scripts/dbuscron.
Jun 23 14:22:18 <kwtm> vi__: I'll start with just reminding me there's a SMS waiting.  There's an app for that, so I need to get my act together and set up the repositories on this thing.
Jun 23 14:22:23 <DocScrutinizer05> dbus cron - a really poor naming for this dbus-scripting epigone
Jun 23 14:22:56 <vi__> kwtm: you are thinking of sms-notify.
Jun 23 14:23:23 <kwtm> vi__: Yeah ... I don't suppose that's a simple Python program I can cut and paste, is it?  (I guess it needs to access cron or something ... is that built-in?)
Jun 23 14:23:30 <vi__> kwtm: just bear in mind, when you start loading the N900 up with all this 'stuff' you will chip away at the battery life.
Jun 23 14:23:50 <vi__> kwtm: sms-notify is a pythin script.
Jun 23 14:24:04 <DocScrutinizer05> kwtm: there is no cron on maemo, that's called alarmd
Jun 23 14:24:06 <kwtm> Yeah, don't rub it in about the battery life.  I can't believe I have 4 batteries and 2 of them may possibly be completely useless.  And I can't find the 3rd.  I have to get stuff from my old N900 transferred to the new.
Jun 23 14:24:27 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer05: Right, I remember reading about alarmd.  Same syntax as cron or something else I should read up on?
Jun 23 14:24:37 <LaoLang_cool> What packages do I need to compile the simple C program on n900?
Jun 23 14:24:37 <DocScrutinizer05> kwtm: there's an app called alarmed that interfaces to libalarmd and gives you cron-alike cmdline API
Jun 23 14:24:59 <kwtm> vi__: I meant whether I can paste in the script for sms-notify, or do I need to install the package.
Jun 23 14:25:29 <DocScrutinizer05> kwtm: ... plus a nice GUI API on top, as alternative way to handle stuff
Jun 23 14:25:38 <kwtm> The other thing I want to do, if possible, is to have the status icons (e.g. battery charging, on 3g network, etc.) show an icon for when Fn or Shift is pressed.  Why wasn't that already built in? :P
Jun 23 14:26:08 <DocScrutinizer05> kwtm: that's why I deprecated anacron and suggested you look into alarmed app
Jun 23 14:26:30 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer05: Thx for the tips.
Jun 23 14:26:34 <DocScrutinizer05> yw
Jun 23 14:28:47 <vi__> kwtm: for maximum battery life:
Jun 23 14:29:01 <vi__> 1. purchase a 1500mAH battery.
Jun 23 14:29:06 <DocScrutinizer05> meh
Jun 23 14:29:15 <vi__> 2. Install a kernel with smart reflex supported.
Jun 23 14:29:17 <ZogG_laptop> vi__: it's easy for me as my argument was the first one =) as i pointed out the fact of 4/5 got phone
Jun 23 14:29:33 <DocScrutinizer05> or a good *real* 1320mA genuine BL-5J Nokia battery
Jun 23 14:29:51 <kwtm> vi__: It would have been ok if N900 shut down before the battery got to 0%.  I *had* 4 batteries to swap between, and an external charger. 
Jun 23 14:30:05 <kwtm> I do have a real 1320mA battery with the hologram on it.  I hope it can be rescued ...
Jun 23 14:30:05 <DocScrutinizer05> vi__: numbers please! I have no smartrelflex and get pretty decent standby times
Jun 23 14:30:58 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: We shall have to disagree on this.  We will not agree.  I am a *HEAVY* N900 user.  I know what works for me.
Jun 23 14:31:04 <DocScrutinizer05> odds are with any special kernel you import other battery hogs without even noticing
Jun 23 14:31:20 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: Powertop is a great tool.
Jun 23 14:31:32 <Raimu> I have a genuine Nokia battery that came with the phone, but it only gives something like 1050mA.
Jun 23 14:31:37 <DocScrutinizer05> still no hard numbers on smart reflex
Jun 23 14:31:55 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: do you 'believe' in undervolting?
Jun 23 14:32:00 <Raimu> Haven't ever gotten good standby times on any configuration, though.
Jun 23 14:32:14 <DocScrutinizer05> tbh no I don't
Jun 23 14:32:29 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: You are an electronic engineer.
Jun 23 14:32:45 <vi__> P=CFV^2
Jun 23 14:33:01 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, and thus I know exactly that undervolting will make a difference only for the times when CPU is *active*
Jun 23 14:33:18 <DocScrutinizer05> for a decent standby time you want to minimize those time periods
Jun 23 14:33:28 <DocScrutinizer05> both in duration and frequency
Jun 23 14:34:11 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: definatley, however the CPU MUST awaken from time to time.
Jun 23 14:34:33 <vi__> So for maximum battery life I must leave my n900 switched off?
Jun 23 14:34:36 <Raimu> DocScrutinizer05: I've been wondering -- what sort of a thing can you remove from a stock configuration of a n900 with nothing l33t installed to lessen the amount of CPU wakes?
Jun 23 14:35:00 <DocScrutinizer05> for the times when cpu is NOT in C5, you still save maximum maybe 10% of CPU(!) power consumption, while a lot of the total device power consumption is for things not related to CPU at all
Jun 23 14:35:15 <Raimu> I get the part where one doesn't install suspicious widgets or script.
Jun 23 14:35:18 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: we are arguing for different cases here.
Jun 23 14:35:19 <Raimu> *scripts
Jun 23 14:35:30 <DocScrutinizer05> Raimu: some nonsensical desktop widgets maybe
Jun 23 14:35:37 <DocScrutinizer05> skype !!
Jun 23 14:35:54 <DocScrutinizer05> any other IM app
Jun 23 14:36:28 <Raimu> Yeah, Skype is a complete hog when it's on.
Jun 23 14:37:04 <vi__> Raimu: If you are online: skype, nokia messaging, IM etc.
Jun 23 14:37:08 <DocScrutinizer05> vi__: you stated SmartReflex as number one measure to get a decent standby time - that's plain wrong
Jun 23 14:37:21 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: No I did not.
Jun 23 14:37:37 <DocScrutinizer05> right, your 1500mAh battery been #1
Jun 23 14:37:43 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: I included it in a list of things to 'use/do' to get long battery life.
Jun 23 14:37:58 <vi__> number 3 on the list would have been:
Jun 23 14:38:11 <vi__> 3. Minimise junk that wakes up the CPU.
Jun 23 14:38:34 <DocScrutinizer05> which actually is #1 in priority and effectiveness, by far
Jun 23 14:38:51 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: I did not state the list was organised by importance.
Jun 23 14:39:01 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
Jun 23 14:39:06 <vi__> DocScrutinizer05: I said we will not agree!
Jun 23 14:39:59 <vi__> But doc is right.  The most important one is minimise junk that keeps the cpu awake.
Jun 23 14:40:06 <DocScrutinizer05> well, if you like to disagree, I'm fine with that ;-P
Jun 23 14:41:01 <DocScrutinizer05> let's agree we don't agree to disagree
Jun 23 14:41:10 <vi__> I do not agree with this.
Jun 23 14:43:12 <kwtm> Ok, all, let's just disagree about disagreeing with this.
Jun 23 14:43:29 <Raimu> That's too conformist. I'll agree.
Jun 23 14:43:39 <kwtm> Instead you should all help me with this Really Weighty Problem: what command line can I call to make the N900 make a short beep?  
Jun 23 14:44:02 <kwtm> I've gotten it to send a text message but I want to indicate that it was done, hence a short beep/click or something.  Is it "play click.wav" or something?
Jun 23 14:45:53 <DocScrutinizer05> kwtm: playsound </full/path7to/yourwav>
Jun 23 14:46:15 <Raimu> Actually play-sound.
Jun 23 14:46:19 <DocScrutinizer05> mhm
Jun 23 14:46:37 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Jun 23 14:46:47 <DocScrutinizer05> ~jrtools
Jun 23 14:46:48 <infobot> methinks jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
Jun 23 14:47:38 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/xchat/notify.sh
Jun 23 14:48:01 <vi__> aplay
Jun 23 14:48:08 <vi__> mplayer yoursound.wav
Jun 23 14:48:19 <vi__> gstreamer
Jun 23 14:48:32 <vi__> screen notification
Jun 23 14:48:47 <vi__> i.e. a pop-up balloon thing.
Jun 23 14:50:00 <DocScrutinizer05> all way too much overhead to establish the playback stack, imho
Jun 23 14:50:41 <DocScrutinizer05> play-sound is (almost too) lightweight
Jun 23 14:51:09 <DocScrutinizer05> downside: no volume control
Jun 23 14:51:42 <DocScrutinizer05> iow it's unclear which policy play-sound is using
Jun 23 14:52:51 <DocScrutinizer05> and quite obviously play-sound has no option to choose the policy for playback of your sound
Jun 23 14:53:39 <DocScrutinizer05> if anybody knows better detail on that topic, I'd appreciate to listen and learn
Jun 23 14:54:39 <DocScrutinizer05> I actually haven't investigated if you maybe can control play-sound volume via system-signal-volume setting, or anything else
Jun 23 14:55:37 <DocScrutinizer05> I just know it doesn't follow the generic volume control, just mutes on profile "silent"
Jun 23 14:56:28 <DocScrutinizer05> kwtm: nevertheless hope that helps
Jun 23 14:56:56 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer05: Thanks.  I tried play-sound, but it keeps saying "ca_context_play_full (vol -0.000000): File or data corrupt"
Jun 23 14:57:09 <kwtm> mplayer works, so I'll use that for now.  I'll deal with the startup delay later.
Jun 23 14:57:17 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, you try to play non-.wav ?
Jun 23 14:57:44 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer05: Oh, the built-in ringtones, and also .mp3.  SHould I be using sox instead?  I do have mplayer installed already so I guess I'll just use that.
Jun 23 14:59:03 <DocScrutinizer05> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=900108&highlight=playswoosh
Jun 23 14:59:26 <DocScrutinizer05> try: /usr/bin/play-sound /usr/share/sounds/ui-charging_started.wav
Jun 23 15:00:11 <DocScrutinizer05> cranking up mplayer is a heavy operation
Jun 23 15:00:21 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd guess
Jun 23 15:02:44 <Raimu> DocScrutinizer05: Ever did the "ramp up brightness slowly" script?
Jun 23 15:02:48 <Neutron__> does anyone have any experience with cheapo chinese 3G antennas?
Jun 23 15:02:57 <DocScrutinizer05> Raimu: nope
Jun 23 15:03:14 <Viltzu> Why glxinfo doesn't give anymore info when setting LIBGL_DEBUG=verbose
Jun 23 15:03:15 <Viltzu> :|
Jun 23 15:05:20 <DocScrutinizer05> Raimu: the flaw in this concept: pushing lockswitch already enables screen backlight instantly
Jun 23 15:06:05 <DocScrutinizer05> so I'd have to deal with that, in a way that I ramp down screen brightness to zero whenever screen gets locked/dimmed
Jun 23 15:06:43 <DocScrutinizer05> and that's the point where mce and its plugins being closed starts pissing me
Jun 23 15:09:20 <DocScrutinizer05> the insane bug of indicator LED breathing light getting dimmed to nearly invisible brightness whenever you lock the device in bright sunlight being another such point
Jun 23 15:10:08 <DocScrutinizer05> I mean, which insane crazy rationale might have resulted in THAT?
Jun 23 15:11:18 <DocScrutinizer05> tbh all ALS related stuff feels rather "green" and incomplete beta state
Jun 23 15:12:40 <DocScrutinizer05> I actually already pondered several times to kill the ALS driver all together
Jun 23 15:14:32 <Raimu> Yeh, that's dumb.
Jun 23 15:15:38 <Raimu> I actually originally thought there's something wrong with the n900 before I realized there's some adaptive lighting scheme playing with the screen, for instance.
Jun 23 15:16:02 <Raimu> Sitting in some random room and then the screen goes darker, brighter, darker again.
Jun 23 15:16:05 <Raimu> ffs
Jun 23 15:16:48 <vi__> I thought MCE was more or less exposed in meego?
Jun 23 15:26:55 <DocScrutinizer05> nope, it's a crippled version Nokia disclosed for meego's /mer's sake
Jun 23 15:29:12 <DocScrutinizer05> like they did so many times. For mer/meego they disclosed things within 5 days after stskeeps asking for it, while same stuff been on a "please disclose" list for fremantle since literally years
Jun 23 15:30:47 <DocScrutinizer05> then they disclose stuff they think will suffice for meego, and don't care about fremantle and the disclosure-request there, not even to the point of *letting us know* they just disclosed (parts of) the stuff for meego purposes. We had to spot the rocks on gittorious by random finding
Jun 23 15:31:11 * RST38h yawns
Jun 23 15:31:16 <RST38h> EHLO, gentlemen
Jun 23 15:31:20 <DocScrutinizer05> quite a nasty way to treat your community
Jun 23 15:31:25 <DocScrutinizer05> hi RST38h
Jun 23 15:31:38 <RST38h> Whazzup, Doc? Some source code got disclosed?
Jun 23 15:31:55 <DocScrutinizer05> nah, just rant about age old mce "disclosure"
Jun 23 15:32:20 <DocScrutinizer05> nevermind, actually
Jun 23 15:33:48 <DocScrutinizer05> RST38h: I'm just still missing the sources for *our* mce, so I could finally fix some annoying bugs the easy way
Jun 23 15:34:47 <DocScrutinizer05> like the "dim notifications LED, after locking device in bright sunlight" bug
Jun 23 15:35:44 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm not all that alarmed about it since I learnt about the root cause, but it's still annoying silly a bug
Jun 23 15:36:30 <RST38h> Sure it is because of sunlight?
Jun 23 15:36:42 <DocScrutinizer05> and fixing it would mean RE of mce binary, and patching in some bytes 
Jun 23 15:36:52 * RST38h is more annoyed about device going out of locked state every time it is plugged in
Jun 23 15:36:56 <DocScrutinizer05> not exactly
Jun 23 15:37:06 <DocScrutinizer05> why that?
Jun 23 15:37:36 <DocScrutinizer05> well, I agree it should be a user config option in mce.ini
Jun 23 15:37:44 <RST38h> No idea, this misfeature has been introduced around PR 1.2
Jun 23 15:38:09 <DocScrutinizer05> but after all you *could* fix it via a tiny scriptie for dbus-scripting
Jun 23 15:38:16 <RST38h> I plug it into charger for a night and do not want it to wake up at that time
Jun 23 15:38:21 <RST38h> heh
Jun 23 15:39:36 <DocScrutinizer05> RST38h: probably some designer opened a ticket "doesn't unlock screen on plugin to charger, so chargeing notification goes unnoticed"
Jun 23 15:40:07 <DocScrutinizer05> and you know, design is sacrosanct. when they demand sth, it gets done that way
Jun 23 15:40:41 <DocScrutinizer05> no matter if developers thing "what a pile of BS!"
Jun 23 15:40:47 <DocScrutinizer05> think*
Jun 23 15:42:04 <DocScrutinizer05> developers otoh won't do a sane requirements spec including some config key, when such a change request from design dept. comes in
Jun 23 15:42:51 <DocScrutinizer05> somebody is picking the ticket, hacks some 5 lines of code, tests and delivers it, and next PR it gets rolled out
Jun 23 15:43:44 <DocScrutinizer05> you probably dafely could roll back to previous mce version
Jun 23 15:43:48 <DocScrutinizer05> safely
Jun 23 15:45:06 <RST38h> Doc: Yeah, designers are of course the final decision makers on everything
Jun 23 15:45:12 <RST38h> and the middle management
Jun 23 15:45:25 <DocScrutinizer05> RST38h: are you sure it's not related to your setting of "keep backlight on when on charger"?
Jun 23 15:45:33 <RST38h> I have this option off
Jun 23 15:45:38 <DocScrutinizer05> mhm
Jun 23 15:46:13 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't, so I didn't even notice this change when pr1.2 update came
Jun 23 15:46:56 <Corsac> hmhm, I didn't know there was such an option
Jun 23 15:47:11 <Corsac> (or is it on Maemo 5?)
Jun 23 16:09:57 <DocScrutinizer05> sure on maemo5
Jun 23 16:10:02 <DocScrutinizer05> what else?
Jun 23 16:11:23 <DocScrutinizer05> I fail to recall if it's a standard display settings option, or in tweakr, or just in mce.ini
Jun 23 16:11:36 <DocScrutinizer05> but definitely on fremantle/maemo5
Jun 23 16:11:44 * RST38h remembers disabling it but does not remember where
Jun 23 16:13:17 <DocScrutinizer05> T900: (pre-pr1.3) settings -< display -> "backlight during charging"
Jun 23 16:13:28 <DocScrutinizer05> s/-</->/
Jun 23 16:13:28 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: T900: (pre-pr1.3) settings -> display -> "backlight during charging"
Jun 23 16:13:50 <DocScrutinizer05> 2nd checkbox from top
Jun 23 16:15:27 <DocScrutinizer05> and yes, I think it's been there since very beginning of maemo5
Jun 23 16:18:20 * DocScrutinizer05 lols @ CA thread. Council hardly came into existence at all, nobody sane would have expected it to perform in an extraordinarily perfect way. Now it shows this expectations were all justified, and a few go nuts about that fact?
Jun 23 16:21:06 <DocScrutinizer05> you elected them, you got them. You didn't run for council yourselves. There's not been a way to vote void as I suggested last time a few minutes ago. That's what you get, live with it, or do sth about it. discussing in aftermath how this CA thing got handled is plain futile and poisonous to community at large
Jun 23 16:23:13 <DocScrutinizer05> (unless of course you hope for "educating the council members how to do it right" - something at least the most agressive and annoying one of the bunch already refused to ever do)
Jun 23 16:24:07 <DocScrutinizer05> (to change own behaviour that is)
Jun 23 16:25:28 <NIN101> to me it seemed (and seems still) council doesn't have real power anyway, so it doesn't matter. 
Jun 23 16:26:09 <vi___> wtf is aries damage?
Jun 23 16:26:41 <vi___> or is he just a mad jelly butthurt bellbag?
Jun 23 16:28:07 <vi___> everyone is carefully trying to avoid listing the negative points of entrants in order to save a 'public bashing'
Jun 23 16:28:37 <DocScrutinizer05> NIN101: the more I'm feeling tempted to kick in and argue when e.g. FMG claims "council supposed to *lead* the community for the next 6 months" (owtte)
Jun 23 16:29:10 <DocScrutinizer05> fsck NO! they are meant to *represent* us, not to lead and govern us
Jun 23 16:29:48 <DocScrutinizer05> nobody will govern and "lead" the community
Jun 23 16:29:58 <NIN101> yep.
Jun 23 16:31:01 <DocScrutinizer05> alas it seems quite a number of people incl most of council staff got it wrong on that minor detail
Jun 23 16:32:23 <DocScrutinizer05> like if 10% of "community" elected a dictator quintett to rule the other 90% to obey to what those 10% of douchebags (usually very new to community as well) think things should be like
Jun 23 16:33:33 <DocScrutinizer05> "we rule! be with us or be under us"
Jun 23 16:33:41 <DocScrutinizer05> no Sir!
Jun 23 16:35:24 <Lava_Croft> testosteron powers so many great things
Jun 23 16:35:54 <DocScrutinizer05> lol
Jun 23 16:36:35 <DocScrutinizer05> I got my very own idea why most of council refused to publish a photo of themselves
Jun 23 16:37:04 <Lava_Croft> people want the council to show a photo of themselves?
Jun 23 16:37:13 <Lava_Croft> thats a great idea, certainly on the internet
Jun 23 16:37:56 <DocScrutinizer05> well, I'm doing this even while I'm not a council candadate
Jun 23 16:38:08 <Lava_Croft> posting a photo of yourself?
Jun 23 16:38:22 <DocScrutinizer05> and I expect that from anybody asking for my vote, on any role whatsoever
Jun 23 16:38:27 <Lava_Croft> you do?
Jun 23 16:38:34 <Lava_Croft> how is their physical appearance in any way related
Jun 23 16:38:40 <utanapischti> "18:35:25 Lava_Croft | testosteron powers so many great things" >>> hair loss
Jun 23 16:38:47 <Lava_Croft> utanapischti: tell me about it
Jun 23 16:38:55 <Lava_Croft> hair loss in the wrong places!
Jun 23 16:39:27 <utanapischti> which place is wrong?
Jun 23 16:39:29 <DocScrutinizer05> 16 year old teenies with skinhead heircut and very special tatoo on their forehead?
Jun 23 16:39:35 <Lava_Croft> who cares?
Jun 23 16:39:44 <Lava_Croft> how is their physical appearance related?
Jun 23 16:40:04 <DocScrutinizer05> *i* for one am interested in physical appearance
Jun 23 16:40:17 <jacekowski> council doesn't exist
Jun 23 16:40:17 <Lava_Croft> then you probably arent the right kind of person to participate in the voting
Jun 23 16:40:20 <jacekowski> it's all just a computer program
Jun 23 16:40:23 <Lava_Croft> pizzatime!
Jun 23 16:40:26 <jacekowski> that's why there is no photo of it
Jun 23 16:40:34 <DocScrutinizer05> as I won't vote for somebody that looks, smells, and talks like an old Nazi for example
Jun 23 16:41:07 <DocScrutinizer05> as odds are he actually *is* an old nazi
Jun 23 16:41:51 <jacekowski> i thought most germans are
Jun 23 16:42:02 <DocScrutinizer05> and a 16 year old grumpy teenager with "conquer the world" phantasies will somehow expose this on a photo as well, if only his age
Jun 23 16:42:46 <utanapischti> 18:41:51 jacekowski | i thought most germans are  <<<<  most germans are too young to know what a nazi was
Jun 23 16:43:15 <DocScrutinizer05> and after all it's good practice since at least 100 years you get faces of your electable candidates, no matter what's the election
Jun 23 16:44:07 <utanapischti> most non-germans dont know what they are talking about too
Jun 23 16:44:30 <DocScrutinizer05> if you're considering running for council but are afraid to publish a shitty photo of your nose, just rethink! maybe council is not the role for you
Jun 23 16:45:40 <DocScrutinizer05> but this council is all about redefining council from publicly known representatives to hidden acting dictatorship
Jun 23 16:46:14 <DocScrutinizer05> and not liking to see your face published is all in line with that
Jun 23 16:46:53 <jacekowski> shadow council
Jun 23 16:47:07 <DocScrutinizer05> hell, were some of them even reluctant to disclose their real life names?
Jun 23 16:48:45 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wiki.maemo.org/images/8/82/3D03C5DC-655D-418C-98F0-919B1EAF4FAB.JPG is actually a laugh
Jun 23 16:49:28 <Lava_Croft> the problem with demanding pictures is that inevitably it will turn into a discussion about quality of the photos, the physical appearance of the subjects and what not
Jun 23 16:49:34 <jacekowski> well, when people ask for my photo i give them that
Jun 23 16:49:37 <Lava_Croft> and if this was a modelling contest, that would be great
Jun 23 16:49:42 <jacekowski> http://gallery.jacekowski.org/main.php?g2_itemId=1266
Jun 23 16:49:52 <DocScrutinizer05> Lava_Croft: bullshit
Jun 23 16:50:02 <Lava_Croft> you must be new to the internet
Jun 23 16:50:10 <jacekowski> + people would be wanking to female phtos
Jun 23 16:50:20 <Lava_Croft> that too, but i was trying to avoid porn
Jun 23 16:50:22 <Lava_Croft> :)
Jun 23 16:50:34 <DocScrutinizer05> no, you must. http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council tells the whole sad story, at a glace. indeed
Jun 23 16:51:10 <Lava_Croft> i dont see why you make such a fuss about portrait photos
Jun 23 16:51:31 <Lava_Croft> they could be physically attracting to both sexes and still be horrible people
Jun 23 16:51:38 <DocScrutinizer05> Lava_Croft: and no, there's never been *any* beauty contest or complaint about poor photo quality going on for any council except last and current one
Jun 23 16:51:44 <jacekowski> tbh. i don't know those names
Jun 23 16:52:06 <Lava_Croft> so thats not never
Jun 23 16:52:51 <Lava_Croft> look, i personally always enjoy people's portrait pictures, but i just dont see how its so important to this
Jun 23 16:53:23 <Lava_Croft> same with real life names
Jun 23 16:53:23 <DocScrutinizer05> Lava_Croft: they could be snake people from mars, in disguise. Still no reason to tell community "F U, you won't get a photo of _me_, suckers"
Jun 23 16:53:31 <Lava_Croft> it is
Jun 23 16:53:40 <Lava_Croft> why does the community have a right to know what you look like
Jun 23 16:53:45 <Lava_Croft> how is it important to this matter
Jun 23 16:54:28 <DocScrutinizer05> Lava_Croft: simply because it's how community elected ... (counting) 4(?) councils befor the abysmally poor last and incredibly arrogant current one
Jun 23 16:54:47 <DocScrutinizer05> 5 actually
Jun 23 16:54:49 <DocScrutinizer05> at least
Jun 23 16:54:50 <Lava_Croft> i think "we always did it like this in the past" is a weak argument
Jun 23 16:54:58 <Lava_Croft> and thats to put it mildly
Jun 23 16:55:06 <DocScrutinizer05> I think THIS is the wrakest argument
Jun 23 16:55:19 <Lava_Croft> and i dont know about you, but arrogance is something you can easily fake either way in a picture
Jun 23 16:55:31 <DocScrutinizer05> so what?
Jun 23 16:55:35 <Lava_Croft> please dont tell me that you link their pictures to their possible arrogant personalities
Jun 23 16:55:45 <DocScrutinizer05> meh
Jun 23 16:55:50 <Lava_Croft> hey, thats what you are saying
Jun 23 16:56:00 <DocScrutinizer05> you are obviously one of the douchebags
Jun 23 16:56:05 <Lava_Croft> eh?
Jun 23 16:56:13 <Lava_Croft> i dont agree, so i must be a douchebag
Jun 23 16:56:16 <DocScrutinizer05> the 10% to define new rules
Jun 23 16:56:39 <Lava_Croft> this is hardly the right way to take on a discussion like this
Jun 23 16:56:39 <MohammadAG> I see the arguing is moving to irc
Jun 23 16:56:46 <DocScrutinizer05> to conquer the other 90% 
Jun 23 16:56:47 <Lava_Croft> well, the arguing is over now
Jun 23 16:56:51 <MohammadAG> Well, at least freenode isn't funded by Nokia 
Jun 23 16:57:01 <MohammadAG> What's this about photos
Jun 23 16:57:11 <DocScrutinizer05> MohammadAG: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council
Jun 23 16:57:24 <DocScrutinizer05> tells the whole story
Jun 23 16:57:37 <Lava_Croft> someone is making a lot of fuss about some missing portrait photos
Jun 23 16:57:50 <Lava_Croft> because that is one of the real problems this community faces in these times
Jun 23 16:57:59 <Macer> i have my plasma tv open trying to tap test where the hell the problem is
Jun 23 16:58:02 <Lava_Croft> that is really a subject that you want to argue about on both the forums and irc
Jun 23 16:58:10 <Macer> the left side of it keeps flickering and going blank
Jun 23 16:58:17 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, and that one are you, Sir
Jun 23 16:58:17 <Lava_Croft> and then when someone does not agree, you just fall into petty insulting
Jun 23 16:58:21 <Macer> then sometimes it will pop back up... sucks heh
Jun 23 16:58:26 <Lava_Croft> like a really, really bad salesperson
Jun 23 16:58:44 <Lava_Croft> good luck with it, DocScrutinizer05
Jun 23 16:58:53 <DocScrutinizer05> *I* just said the photo issue is in line with other bad practice and notion we see on current council
Jun 23 16:59:06 <MohammadAG> So what if photos are missing
Jun 23 16:59:47 <MohammadAG> I'm both of those guys with different nicks and I did that to have 3 N9s
Jun 23 16:59:53 <DocScrutinizer05> then that shows the one is not bothering
Jun 23 16:59:59 <MohammadAG> Nothing wrong there, carry on
Jun 23 17:00:25 <MohammadAG> Its a simple cosmetic issue on the wikis
Jun 23 17:00:27 <Lava_Croft> Not just that, I dont see what one should should express so much negativity over a subject like this
Jun 23 17:00:30 <DocScrutinizer05> not willing to follow best practice of former councils
Jun 23 17:00:41 <Lava_Croft> I mean, there's surely other subjects you can direct it at, more productive things
Jun 23 17:00:54 <MohammadAG> Estel_: Fix it, please, kthxbai
Jun 23 17:01:01 <MohammadAG> See? Problem solved
Jun 23 17:01:13 <MohammadAG> No need for personal attacks
Jun 23 17:01:45 <MohammadAG> Also the other guy, he's usually on irc, ping him about it
Jun 23 17:02:20 <Lava_Croft> i know a good way to change the subject
Jun 23 17:02:27 <Lava_Croft> MohammadAG: what is up with the n9 camera
Jun 23 17:02:38 <Lava_Croft> is it the GPS (settings?) that cause it to take ages to startup?
Jun 23 17:02:42 <Lava_Croft> or just not start up at all
Jun 23 17:03:22 <MohammadAG> Lava_Croft: No, it's something added in between beta2 and pr1.2
Jun 23 17:03:31 <Lava_Croft> something unknown?
Jun 23 17:03:35 <Macer> the N9 camera?
Jun 23 17:03:44 <DocScrutinizer05> MohammadAG: things started around http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/latest.log.html#t2012-06-23T19:29:10 - read that and you'll se how we came to this silly photo topic now
Jun 23 17:03:46 <MohammadAG> Idk, but it was very fast on prelease software
Jun 23 17:03:47 <Macer> you're running maemo on an n9?
Jun 23 17:03:47 <Lava_Croft> it does seem related to the GPS, but that might just be decieving
Jun 23 17:04:00 <Lava_Croft> the n9 does run maemo :)
Jun 23 17:04:02 <MohammadAG> VERY FAST
Jun 23 17:04:07 <MohammadAG> no, we had geotagging in beta1
Jun 23 17:04:24 <Lava_Croft> it seemed very fast at first too
Jun 23 17:05:00 <zeq_laptop> I don't think it really has anything to do with the council.  A lot of people on tmo wanted to *buy* an N950 or similar updated N900 type device.  There's a lot of frustration (at Nokia) but now being directed at those they see getting what they wanted.
Jun 23 17:05:23 <Lava_Croft> zeq_laptop: i backspace'd a message of the same nature a while agoD
Jun 23 17:05:25 <Lava_Croft> :D*
Jun 23 17:05:55 <zeq_laptop> I'm not paying enough attention, just seeing the discussion roll by...
Jun 23 17:05:57 <zeq_laptop> :)
Jun 23 17:06:14 <Lava_Croft> i didnt actually send it to the server:)
Jun 23 17:06:15 <Macer> haha
Jun 23 17:06:22 <zeq_laptop> I'm trying to get the Linaro 4.7.2 toolchain working in sb
Jun 23 17:06:26 <MohammadAG> Don't judge a book by its cover
Jun 23 17:06:38 <MohammadAG> 16 year olds aren't bad :p
Jun 23 17:06:53 <MohammadAG> The way they act is what matters
Jun 23 17:06:53 <Lava_Croft> when i was 16yo, i had a sea of time
Jun 23 17:07:04 <zeq_laptop> Lava_Croft: ie backspaced - not enough attention :p
Jun 23 17:07:09 <Lava_Croft> :)
Jun 23 17:07:24 <MohammadAG> Lava_Croft: It's global warming that made it disappear, not age
Jun 23 17:07:36 <Lava_Croft> oh geez
Jun 23 17:07:50 <Lava_Croft> i live in the netherlands
Jun 23 17:07:54 <Lava_Croft> less sea is always good here
Jun 23 17:07:56 <MohammadAG> How old are you now?
Jun 23 17:08:01 <Lava_Croft> you want my picture too?
Jun 23 17:08:13 <MohammadAG> Yes, in a bikini please
Jun 23 17:08:16 <Lava_Croft> i turn 31 in august:)
Jun 23 17:08:17 * RST38h moos at Mohammad
Jun 23 17:08:25 <MohammadAG> Moo RST38h 
Jun 23 17:08:25 <Macer> she's on irc... she has to be fat
Jun 23 17:08:28 * Macer hides
Jun 23 17:08:36 <RST38h> Lava: So you can now officially bitch about 16-year olds, or what?
Jun 23 17:08:45 <Lava_Croft> was i bitching about 16 year old?
Jun 23 17:08:48 <Lava_Croft> i think someone else was
Jun 23 17:08:48 <MohammadAG> Lava_Croft: Don't actually do that, no seriously, please don't 
Jun 23 17:09:00 <Lava_Croft> MohammadAG: dont worry, i dont fit im my wife's bikinis anyway
Jun 23 17:09:02 <DocScrutinizer05> Lava_Croft: and again you got it wrong
Jun 23 17:09:13 <NIN101> ...
Jun 23 17:09:21 <Lava_Croft> im sorry for breaking the spell :<
Jun 23 17:09:27 <Macer> hahaha!!
Jun 23 17:09:34 <MohammadAG> What I do dislike is 16 year olds with Audis
Jun 23 17:09:43 <Lava_Croft> 16 year olds arent allowed to drive cars here
Jun 23 17:09:45 <MohammadAG> Or BMWs
Jun 23 17:09:45 <Macer> 16yr olds have audis?
Jun 23 17:09:59 <RST38h> some do
Jun 23 17:09:59 <Macer> you mean the silver spoon kids or are they just that much cheaper in the eu?
Jun 23 17:10:02 <MohammadAG> They have dads with $$$
Jun 23 17:10:05 <Macer> ah ok
Jun 23 17:10:08 <MohammadAG> Well, some of them
Jun 23 17:10:16 <Lava_Croft> audi is like the opel kadett of semi-wealthy people
Jun 23 17:10:20 <RST38h> Mohammad: Lemme guess, PA government functionaries?
Jun 23 17:10:26 <MohammadAG> I had a Nissan GT-R when I was 16
Jun 23 17:10:27 <Lava_Croft> such a lack of personal taste
Jun 23 17:10:34 <MohammadAG> I miss Gran Turismo
Jun 23 17:10:36 <Macer> audis aren't that good.. but then again.. no cars are nowadays
Jun 23 17:10:39 <Lava_Croft> i miss carmageddon
Jun 23 17:10:43 <Macer> they're all made in china parts
Jun 23 17:10:53 <Sc0rpius> Audis are good, well my brother has an Audi A4 and it's great
Jun 23 17:11:03 <Macer> is it new?
Jun 23 17:11:03 <MohammadAG> RST38h: No, just fucked up hidden lives
Jun 23 17:11:03 <Sc0rpius> my sister has a SUV, an Audi Q6 
Jun 23 17:11:04 <Lava_Croft> audi is nice, but its also ver standard
Jun 23 17:11:05 <Sc0rpius> yeah 2012
Jun 23 17:11:09 <Lava_Croft> very*
Jun 23 17:11:14 * RST38h yawns and notices that when he was 16 years of age, Carmageddon has not been written yet
Jun 23 17:11:14 <MohammadAG> I like the RS3
Jun 23 17:11:14 <Macer> wait until the chinese knobs start breaking off ;)
Jun 23 17:11:16 <Lava_Croft> i like the S* series tho
Jun 23 17:11:22 <Macer> the $100 plastic chinese knobs
Jun 23 17:11:27 <Lava_Croft> stationwagon S* series is just ridiculous
Jun 23 17:11:31 <RST38h> Mohammad: ah! mafia!
Jun 23 17:11:33 <Sc0rpius> well mys sister's husband used to have an S4 and now that was a car
Jun 23 17:11:34 <Macer> a4 is zippy tho
Jun 23 17:11:39 <Sc0rpius> now drives a Chevrolet :S
Jun 23 17:11:52 <Macer> i still have a 1994 caprice classic 
Jun 23 17:11:54 * Sc0rpius drives a 2012 Mitsubishi Lancer
Jun 23 17:11:57 <Macer> rides like a champ still :)
Jun 23 17:12:04 <Macer> awesome shape for its age
Jun 23 17:12:05 <MohammadAG> There's some 17 year old with an '12 Audi, he leaves it on and unlocked when he stops for a quick thing at the market
Jun 23 17:12:10 <Lava_Croft> i drive a 49cc Yamah Neo's
Jun 23 17:12:22 <Lava_Croft> more like ride
Jun 23 17:12:23 <Macer> i do need to get a new set of tires and a new paint job for it
Jun 23 17:12:24 <RST38h> Mohammad: Won't be doingit for lonh
Jun 23 17:12:24 <MohammadAG> Too much money on his dad's hands, and apparently he doesn't appreciate it
Jun 23 17:12:26 <RST38h> long
Jun 23 17:12:35 <Macer> MohammadAG: that's how all rich kids are lol
Jun 23 17:12:46 <RST38h> and I hope corporal punishment is still in effect where you live
Jun 23 17:12:56 <Macer> maybe once in a while rich kids aren't little spoiled brats
Jun 23 17:12:59 <MohammadAG> Well he lives in a neighborhood filled with car thieves
Jun 23 17:13:00 <Macer> but most are just assholes with money
Jun 23 17:13:31 <MohammadAG> I drive a '00 golf
Jun 23 17:13:53 <Macer> MohammadAG: like i said. i still have a 1994 caprice classic i bought in 2005
Jun 23 17:13:55 <Sc0rpius> ah Volkswagen :)
Jun 23 17:14:03 <Macer> the thing runs like it is brand new heh
Jun 23 17:14:09 <MohammadAG> 2.0 engine, so I try not to drive it a lot, at least not with gas prices now
Jun 23 17:14:09 <Macer> so far i've only spent like 2000 on it
Jun 23 17:14:18 * RST38h just bought a 2012 Honda CRV
Jun 23 17:14:21 <Macer> :-P mine is 4.3
Jun 23 17:14:41 <MohammadAG> How much is a litre of gas?
Jun 23 17:14:42 <Macer> it actually sips gas quite well for being  a small v8 with lots of weight to mvoe around
Jun 23 17:14:49 <Macer> we go by gallons here
Jun 23 17:14:57 <Macer> $3.79/gal
Jun 23 17:14:58 <RST38h> Probably makes me a spoiled something, but the 1997 one had too many miles on it
Jun 23 17:15:02 <Lava_Croft> haha Macer wtf
Jun 23 17:15:12 <Macer> that's actually cheap now :-P
Jun 23 17:15:15 <Lava_Croft> 1.68e per liter here
Jun 23 17:15:19 <Macer> it got up to like $4.30
Jun 23 17:15:22 <Macer> +
Jun 23 17:15:23 <MohammadAG> $3.1ish per litre
Jun 23 17:15:27 <Macer> oMG
Jun 23 17:15:30 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: Petrol?
Jun 23 17:15:30 <Macer> PER LITER??
Jun 23 17:15:31 <Sc0rpius> with $2 I can fill the whoooole tank of my car :)
Jun 23 17:15:33 <Lava_Croft> Macer: yes
Jun 23 17:15:36 <MohammadAG> Lava_Croft: FUUU
Jun 23 17:15:38 <Sc0rpius> that's what you get when you live in a country with oil
Jun 23 17:15:41 <Macer> a gallon is around 4 liters isn't it?
Jun 23 17:15:53 <Lava_Croft> 0.264gal is 1 liter
Jun 23 17:15:54 <Lava_Croft> apparently
Jun 23 17:15:58 <MohammadAG> Lemme check actual conversion rates
Jun 23 17:16:00 <Macer> omg
Jun 23 17:16:03 <Macer> that's insane!
Jun 23 17:16:03 <Lava_Croft> 3.785l is 1 gallon
Jun 23 17:16:14 <Lava_Croft> Macer: you in the US?
Jun 23 17:16:15 <Macer> so ~$9/gallon??
Jun 23 17:16:23 <RST38h> Sc0rpius: Nah, rur30/litre in Russia, and it has got oil
Jun 23 17:16:24 <Macer> yes. in chicago
Jun 23 17:16:29 <hiemanshu> I pay $1 for a litre of diesel, can drive about 20kms in a diesel
Jun 23 17:16:31 <Lava_Croft> the US really lives in a bubble
Jun 23 17:16:38 <Macer> Lava_Croft: i guess hahaha
Jun 23 17:16:41 <Lava_Croft> Macer: see it as some kind of Matrix dream state
Jun 23 17:16:46 <Lava_Croft> you will be so hurt by gas prices
Jun 23 17:16:51 <Macer> omg almost $10 per gallon is absolutely crazy
Jun 23 17:16:54 <Lava_Croft> just keep thinking of euro gas prices
Jun 23 17:16:58 <Macer> Lava_Croft: the trick is to have all the refineries ;)
Jun 23 17:17:06 <Lava_Croft> Macer: but the US has all the crazy fucking cars
Jun 23 17:17:09 <MohammadAG> 2.05
Jun 23 17:17:09 <Lava_Croft> with HUGE engines
Jun 23 17:17:15 <Lava_Croft> its just completely ridiculous
Jun 23 17:17:17 <RST38h> Sooooo?
Jun 23 17:17:19 <Macer> Lava_Croft: not all of them.. the hipsters have hybrids ;)
Jun 23 17:17:31 <Macer> but $10/gallon... we would overthrow our govt if prices got that high
Jun 23 17:17:35 <Lava_Croft> haha, yes
Jun 23 17:17:36 <RST38h> So, US isa ridiculous country? Thanks, Cpt Obvious
Jun 23 17:17:40 <Lava_Croft> but you will get there, one way or the other
Jun 23 17:17:49 <Macer> i swear we would send in mercs to slaughter and take over the middle east if it ever hit$10
Jun 23 17:17:51 <Lava_Croft> you have one pre on europe tho
Jun 23 17:17:53 <Lava_Croft> you are americans
Jun 23 17:18:07 <Lava_Croft> so if the gas prices bother you guys too much, you just invent some new shit
Jun 23 17:18:07 <Macer> Lava_Croft: not our fault we won all the major wars :-P
Jun 23 17:18:09 <Macer> lol
Jun 23 17:18:12 <Lava_Croft> with hesitation
Jun 23 17:18:15 <Macer> yeah
Jun 23 17:18:17 <Macer> we're funny like that
Jun 23 17:18:20 <Lava_Croft> in the eu, that will take a goddamn century
Jun 23 17:18:22 <Sicelo> ~owtte
Jun 23 17:18:22 <infobot> somebody said owtte was or words to the effect
Jun 23 17:18:35 <Macer> when it becomes a need we will have nuclear plants in corn fields pumping out billions of gallons of ethanol a day
Jun 23 17:18:35 <Lava_Croft> too bad we all get beat by china! :D
Jun 23 17:18:46 <MohammadAG> Yeah, 2.05/liter
Jun 23 17:18:49 <Macer> no way... china's days are numbered ;)
Jun 23 17:18:53 <Lava_Croft> naw
Jun 23 17:18:56 <Lava_Croft> china will transition
Jun 23 17:19:01 <Macer> they can't sustain themselves forever
Jun 23 17:19:05 <Macer> i doubt it
Jun 23 17:19:11 <Macer> we need another big war soon
Jun 23 17:19:21 <Lava_Croft> naw, chinese empire has always owned this planet
Jun 23 17:19:21 <MohammadAG> I get 200km per 50$
Jun 23 17:19:33 <Lava_Croft> euromarican empire is just temporary
Jun 23 17:19:33 <Macer> Lava_Croft: they kind of have haven't they? :)
Jun 23 17:19:36 <DocScrutinizer05> in Chine petrol is for free, but in 5 years you'll have to pay for the air your car engine needs ;-P
Jun 23 17:19:46 <Macer> DocScrutinizer05: hahaha!!
Jun 23 17:19:48 <MohammadAG> Fuck American cars
Jun 23 17:19:53 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: WTF? I get about 700km for $50
Jun 23 17:20:02 <Lava_Croft> 'real' american cars always feel cheap and shoddy to me
Jun 23 17:20:06 <Lava_Croft> cheap plastics, bad finish
Jun 23 17:20:07 <MohammadAG> hiemanshu: Engine capacity?
Jun 23 17:20:10 <Macer> DocScrutinizer05:  you would think by now someone would find a way to suck it all out the air and squeeze it back together :)
Jun 23 17:20:14 <MohammadAG> Lava_Croft: ++
Jun 23 17:20:24 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: 35L
Jun 23 17:20:26 <Lava_Croft> and then those engines
Jun 23 17:20:28 <Lava_Croft> i mean seriously
Jun 23 17:20:29 <Macer> Lava_Croft: older ones are better
Jun 23 17:20:36 <jaska> 800km, ~95 eur (per week)
Jun 23 17:20:41 <Macer> like pre-gas woes cars
Jun 23 17:20:43 <MohammadAG> hiemanshu: The fuck
Jun 23 17:20:43 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: oh wait, 1.2L
Jun 23 17:20:44 <Lava_Croft> why do a lot of those cars sport those ridiculous engines
Jun 23 17:20:45 <Macer> 60s and 50s heh
Jun 23 17:20:48 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: I read that wrong
Jun 23 17:20:51 <MohammadAG> Oh, makes sense
Jun 23 17:20:51 <Macer> maybe even some 70s
Jun 23 17:20:58 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: I can go upto 170
Jun 23 17:21:01 <MohammadAG> Mine's a 2.0
Jun 23 17:21:02 <Macer> Lava_Croft: penis envy
Jun 23 17:21:07 <DocScrutinizer05> hiemanshu: hiemanshu^
Jun 23 17:21:08 <MohammadAG> 260, but that doesn't matter
Jun 23 17:21:09 <Lava_Croft> Fiat makes 1.3l diesel engines
Jun 23 17:21:14 <Lava_Croft> thats the stuff americans should love
Jun 23 17:21:17 <DocScrutinizer05> hi hiemanshu, i meant
Jun 23 17:21:18 <Macer> haha
Jun 23 17:21:23 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: the roads here are built only for 100kmph :P
Jun 23 17:21:25 <hiemanshu> hey DocScrutinizer05!
Jun 23 17:21:27 <DocScrutinizer05> how's marriage?
Jun 23 17:21:29 <Macer> geo/chevy made 1.3l engines
Jun 23 17:21:31 <MohammadAG> hiemanshu: 110 here
Jun 23 17:21:33 <hiemanshu> DocScrutinizer05: good so far :)
Jun 23 17:21:37 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Jun 23 17:21:37 <Lava_Croft> Macer: probably Fiat engines:)
Jun 23 17:21:43 <MohammadAG> But there's a private Russian road here
Jun 23 17:21:46 <Macer> no.. suzuki 
Jun 23 17:21:47 <Lava_Croft> Fiat engines are in so many cars that its hard to know em all
Jun 23 17:21:49 <Lava_Croft> heh, nice
Jun 23 17:21:53 <Macer> theh actual car was just a rebranded suzuki swift
Jun 23 17:21:58 <MohammadAG> Max speed is 110, not enforced
Jun 23 17:21:59 <Macer> don't know what was up with that
Jun 23 17:22:07 <MohammadAG> So most people do 160-180
Jun 23 17:22:07 <Macer> i had a geo metro
Jun 23 17:22:14 <Macer> i could drive for days on $5 back then :)
Jun 23 17:22:22 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: max speed here most places is 80, but the roads cant handle much more than 140
Jun 23 17:22:24 <Macer> it was like 1996 tho heh
Jun 23 17:22:26 <MohammadAG> I got to 220 on it, then air resistance == force by engine
Jun 23 17:22:35 <MohammadAG> Well, air resistance and friction
Jun 23 17:22:35 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: the max I have high is 170 constant for 25 mins
Jun 23 17:22:38 <hiemanshu> hit*
Jun 23 17:22:52 <MohammadAG> 180 for 63 mins
Jun 23 17:23:00 <MohammadAG> Haifa to Jerusalem :P
Jun 23 17:23:04 <Macer> km/h?
Jun 23 17:23:08 <hiemanshu> yeah
Jun 23 17:23:09 <MohammadAG> Yeah
Jun 23 17:23:14 <Macer> what is that mph?
Jun 23 17:23:21 <hiemanshu> kmph
Jun 23 17:23:26 <DocScrutinizer05> at 220km/h it starts getting boring, in a way it's too demanding
Jun 23 17:23:27 <Macer> like ... 70? heh
Jun 23 17:23:28 <MohammadAG> 130?
Jun 23 17:23:45 <Macer> you damn euros with your metric system
Jun 23 17:23:58 <hiemanshu> Macer: India here :P
Jun 23 17:24:14 <Macer> india is just the forgotten UK colony :-P
Jun 23 17:24:16 <MohammadAG> About 120
Jun 23 17:24:18 <DocScrutinizer05> you damn Americans with your reverse logic and screwed units
Jun 23 17:24:32 <Macer> DocScrutinizer05: we still have more money than you :)
Jun 23 17:24:33 <DocScrutinizer05> 138seconds/mile
Jun 23 17:24:37 <MohammadAG> Uh, we're the ones with the screwed system?
Jun 23 17:24:38 <Macer> lol
Jun 23 17:24:47 <MohammadAG> Water freezes at 0, not 36!!!'
Jun 23 17:24:53 <Macer> 32 :-P
Jun 23 17:24:59 <hiemanshu> MohammadAG: 32 :P
Jun 23 17:25:14 <Macer> honestly for temp we should all be using kelvins
Jun 23 17:25:18 <Macer> both C and F are stupid
Jun 23 17:25:21 <Macer> :)
Jun 23 17:25:35 <Macer> for food we should be using joules
Jun 23 17:25:42 <Macer> not calories.. wtf is a calorie??
Jun 23 17:25:50 <Macer> nutritionist (fake doctor) crap
Jun 23 17:26:04 <RST38h> Macer: I hate having to correct you, but there is no need to send anyone to Middle East
Jun 23 17:26:21 <RST38h> Macer: Most of the place is basically a flatland. Nukes will work perfectly there.
Jun 23 17:26:36 <Macer> RST38h: hahahah.. but we have to get to it still ;)
Jun 23 17:26:42 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer05 about 220 getting boring, you're right
Jun 23 17:26:43 <Macer> there is still a little fission required for fusion
Jun 23 17:26:47 <MohammadAG> It's fun the first two times
Jun 23 17:27:10 <RST38h> Macer: May require slight modifications to insure the sand around epicenter turns into glass, so that there is less pollution
Jun 23 17:27:14 <MohammadAG> Then it seems to cost more, and you're more likely to day cause of that dumb driver who switches lanes without looking
Jun 23 17:27:26 <MohammadAG> But 400kmph, that's a different story
Jun 23 17:27:44 <DocScrutinizer05> not possible on German highways ;-P
Jun 23 17:27:57 <DocScrutinizer05> I tried XP
Jun 23 17:28:11 <vi__> macer then you should come to the uk.
Jun 23 17:28:24 <DocScrutinizer05> actually most cars are limited hard @ 250 here
Jun 23 17:28:38 <jaska> software :)
Jun 23 17:28:42 <DocScrutinizer05> not the one I used though
Jun 23 17:29:22 <DocScrutinizer05> but it felt like useless stress to me driving at that speeds >>220
Jun 23 17:29:49 <DocScrutinizer05> 180 feels like a nice speed to me
Jun 23 17:29:59 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe even 160
Jun 23 17:30:27 <DocScrutinizer05> for more my synapses aren't built
Jun 23 17:30:33 <RST38h> Macer: Why do you need to get to it? In fact, you do not even need to bomb it, just fake the CNN/Fox/etc reporting.
Jun 23 17:30:43 <Macer> haha
Jun 23 17:30:47 <DocScrutinizer05> at least when driving
Jun 23 17:30:53 <RST38h> Macer: 99% Americans will be quite satisfied with the results
Jun 23 17:31:01 <DocScrutinizer05> airplane is a whole different thing
Jun 23 17:31:06 <Macer> RST38h: yeah but you'll have all the eu crybabies pissed we took the oil first ;)
Jun 23 17:31:25 <RST38h> The rest are just serial protesters who want to bankrupt American enterprise for their commie welfare state or somethign
Jun 23 17:31:56 <RST38h> Macer: Not if you do not actually bomb, just fake it for the TV =)
Jun 23 17:33:44 <rzr> cat fights on tmo :)
Jun 23 17:33:56 <Macer> rzr: aren't there always?
Jun 23 17:33:58 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh, me forgot to hit F5
Jun 23 17:34:28 <Macer> DocScrutinizer05: i thought boeing was testing out a hydrogen/oxygen plane?
Jun 23 17:34:34 <Macer> they say a drone worked quite well :)
Jun 23 17:34:43 <Macer> and it can fly for days without refueling
Jun 23 17:34:47 <Macer> GO BOEING!
Jun 23 17:36:12 <Macer> http://www.boeing.com/Features/2010/07/bds_feat_phantom_eye_07_12_10.html
Jun 23 17:36:25 <Macer> larger airports with smaller planes and better logistics
Jun 23 17:36:37 <Macer> will cut the middle east completely out of the airline business :)
Jun 23 17:37:07 <Macer> AND... pollute less heh... how can boeing NOT sell that?
Jun 23 17:55:21 <DocScrutinizer05> ~seen javispedro
Jun 23 17:55:27 <infobot> javispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 22d 21h 50m 58s ago, saying: 'the community ML activity can attest to that indeed'.
Jun 23 18:03:20 <vi__> ~seen infobot
Jun 23 18:03:21 <infobot> infobot is currently on #utos (19h 6m 32s) #asterisk-doc (19h 6m 32s) #botpark (19h 6m 32s) ##t42 (19h 6m 32s) #maemo (19h 6m 32s) #fredlug (19h 6m 32s) ##ols (19h 6m 32s) #n9 (19h 6m 32s) #asterisk-scf-dev (19h 6m 32s) #flyspray (19h 6m 32s) #asterisk-dev (19h 6m 32s) #webos-internals (19h 6m 32s) #opensimpad.org (19h 6m 32s) #asterisk (19h 6m 32s) #byumug (19h 6m ...
Jun 23 18:07:13 <DocScrutinizer05> vi__: there's a smarter way for that
Jun 23 18:07:21 <DocScrutinizer05> ~chaninfo
Jun 23 18:07:23 <infobot> 123/123 channels, 5020 users, 3624 unique: #debian/1212, #kde/390, #maemo/272, #gsoc/265, #meego/185, #asterisk/181, #harmattan/173, #wowuidev/144, #oe/135, #wowace/114, #webos-internals/113, #openmoko/95, #wowhead/88, #arm-netbook/78, #openmoko-cdevel/72, #uclibc/69, #n9/67, #htc-linux/61, #utah/61, #bzflag/57, #edev/57, #qi-hardware/55, #curseforge/55, #tomcat/53, #diablofans/51, #asterisk-dev/47, #maemo-ssu/44, #/41, #sc2mapster/39, ...
Jun 23 18:07:45 <DocScrutinizer05> ~+uptime
Jun 23 18:07:46 <infobot> - Uptime for purl -
Jun 23 18:07:47 <infobot> Now: 19h 12m 8s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux
Jun 23 18:07:48 <infobot> 1: 59d 8h 41m 19s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Sun Nov 14 18:39:57 2010
Jun 23 18:07:48 <infobot> 2: 57d 3h 9m 23s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Fri Jun 26 20:39:27 2009
Jun 23 18:07:48 <infobot> 3: 36d 20h 47m 14s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Tue Aug  4 17:38:59 2009
Jun 23 18:11:07 <vi__> I want coffee, but it is too late for caffeine.
Jun 23 18:11:09 <vi__> FML.
Jun 23 18:12:05 <DocScrutinizer05> never too late for a nice coffee
Jun 23 18:12:24 <DocScrutinizer05> esp on saturday
Jun 23 18:12:35 <DocScrutinizer05> ~xyawn
Jun 23 18:12:35 <infobot> it has been said that xyawn is strong coffee
Jun 23 18:13:00 <vi__> ~pangalacticgargleblaster
Jun 23 18:13:21 <DocScrutinizer05> ~wiki pangalacticgargleblaster
Jun 23 18:13:24 <infobot> I couldn't find a matching article in wikipedia, look for yerselves: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=pangalacticgargleblaster&go=Go
Jun 23 18:13:38 <DocScrutinizer05> ~wiki pangalactic gargleblaster
Jun 23 18:13:42 <infobot> At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangalactic_Gargleblaster (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{Hatnote|This article is about the fictional character. For the Ottawa nightclub, see Zaphod Beeblebrox (nightclub).}} {{Infobox character | colour = red | name = Zaphod Beeblebrox | image = as Zaphod Beeblebrox, from the TV adaptation.]] | caption = Mark Wing-Davey as Zaphod Beeblebrox, from the TV adaptation. | first = Fit the Second (radio) | last = | cause = | ...
Jun 23 18:14:20 <DocScrutinizer05> works better on non-fictional drinks, like:
Jun 23 18:14:27 <DocScrutinizer05> ~wiki tschunk
Jun 23 18:14:30 <infobot> At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tschunk (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{Expert-subject|Mixed Drinks|date=October 2009}} {{Unreferenced|date=October 2009}} {{WPMIXInfobox | iba = | name = Tschunk | image = Tschunk cropped.jpg | caption = | type = cocktail | flaming = | rum = yes | brandy = no | served = | garnish = | drinkware = | ingredients = *4-6 cl white rum or golden rum *limes *Club-Mate *(if desired): brown sugar *ice | prep = Dice limes, put them ...
Jun 23 18:16:41 <vi__> I think imma.
Jun 23 18:16:45 <vi__> gonna get drunk.
Jun 23 18:16:48 <vi__> brb
Jun 23 20:10:25 <RST38h> Meanwhile: Sexy Female Scientist Video Draws Fire
Jun 23 20:10:53 * RST38h notices that more and more headlines draw involuntary "WTF?" reaction from him lately
Jun 23 20:14:05 <DocScrutinizer05> RST38h: no worries, this are just short attacks, it comes and goes
Jun 23 20:14:53 <DocScrutinizer05> and eventually levels to a mild but constant wrf-feeling about everything
Jun 23 20:16:32 <RST38h> I guess that is what is known as dementia
Jun 23 20:24:55 <Macer> lol@claxton missing a 3ft put
Jun 23 20:25:06 <rzr> do u know how to fix http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APJG1njtmqk
Jun 23 20:26:23 <DocScrutinizer05> RST38h: nope, that's commonly known as "grumpy old fart"
Jun 23 20:27:14 <DocScrutinizer05> rzr: I don't think youtube can be fixed
Jun 23 20:28:33 <DocScrutinizer05> (and no, I also don't think everybody in this chan is supposed to watch an arbitrary youtube video to decide if (s)he knows some relevant answer)
Jun 23 20:28:54 <DocScrutinizer05> on a general note:
Jun 23 20:28:57 <DocScrutinizer05> ~ask
Jun 23 20:28:58 <infobot> Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.
Jun 23 21:49:03 <vi___> ~tmo
Jun 23 21:49:04 <infobot> somebody said tmo was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMO, or http://talk.maemo.org, or http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrestrial_Trunked_Radio#TMO. It's *not* T-MO (see ~T-MO) or trolls, morons, oxen.
Jun 23 21:49:42 <vi___> ~tmo trolls, morons, oxen.
Jun 23 21:49:48 <vi___> ~tmo
Jun 23 21:49:48 <infobot> it has been said that tmo is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMO, or http://talk.maemo.org, or http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrestrial_Trunked_Radio#TMO. It's *not* T-MO (see ~T-MO) or trolls, morons, oxen.
Jun 23 21:50:19 <vi___> ~butthurt
Jun 23 21:51:49 <Hurrian> vi__, I assume it's regarding the Community Awards?
Jun 23 21:52:48 <vi___> uh huh.
Jun 23 21:52:58 <vi___> that thread has really bummed me out.
Jun 23 21:53:03 <Hurrian> man, is it such a hot potato.
Jun 23 21:53:31 <Hurrian> personally, I think we should back off from discussing it until everybody's cooled down.
Jun 23 21:54:22 <vi___> I would tend to agree.
Jun 23 21:54:34 <Estel_> what, 1660 lines to read on #maemo since yesterday? are you kidding me?
Jun 23 21:54:49 <Estel_> ah, I see, CA discussion migrated here ;)
Jun 23 21:54:59 <vi___> however a non-winner would suggest our opinion is biased.
Jun 23 21:55:15 * Estel_ just finished reading log
Jun 23 21:55:31 <Estel_> vi_, OTOH, non-winners are biased too, as they haven't won.
Jun 23 21:55:31 <vi___> Estel_: well it seems wrong to discuss it in the thread.
Jun 23 21:55:37 <Estel_> I jsut did it - posted my loast post in this thread
Jun 23 21:55:43 <Estel_> yes.
Jun 23 21:55:58 <Estel_> I've quoted Felipe - as addition to other respectable people posts - and unsubscribed
Jun 23 21:56:03 <Estel_> let them root there
Jun 23 21:56:13 <Estel_> after all, this whole mess imade by 4 - sometimes 5 angry people
Jun 23 21:56:19 <Estel_> that shout loudly like they're an army ;)
Jun 23 21:56:23 <vi___> Anything that is said is seen as a threat, a troll move, a flounce announce or a good old fashioned spam war.
Jun 23 21:56:29 <Estel_> (4 when not counting abil, that is idiot anyway)
Jun 23 21:56:44 <Hurrian> Estel_, who let abill_uk back in?
Jun 23 21:56:49 <Estel_> well, people have their warzone, let them enjoy
Jun 23 21:56:56 <Estel_> Hurrian, no one, he was never banned
Jun 23 21:57:01 <Hurrian> :o
Jun 23 21:57:03 <Estel_> it's beyond me why chem|st or reggie let him be
Jun 23 21:57:11 <Hurrian> I swear he's been stirring the pot again recently
Jun 23 21:57:14 <Estel_> they're probabl;y afraid that he will return under 5 different names
Jun 23 21:57:24 <vi___> Estel_: it is beyond chem|st control.
Jun 23 21:57:25 <Estel_> No idea, i'm ignoring him for ages
Jun 23 21:57:41 <Estel_> well, arie sounds like abil 2.0, so
Jun 23 21:58:04 <Estel_> this guy got about ~16 votes during election, yet, he p[roclaimed himself  "oner and only harmattan councilor" LOL :D
Jun 23 21:58:07 <Estel_> anyway
Jun 23 21:58:23 <Hurrian> Estel_, meh, it just disturbs me - I personally prefer to have no one on Ignore list
Jun 23 21:58:25 <Estel_> BTw, I LOl'ed while reading DocScrutinizer messages here, before. He've made few good points
Jun 23 21:58:35 <Hurrian> gotta fix that problem on the forum
Jun 23 21:58:47 <Estel_> it's a pity, that he.s douchebag and went into calling lava_croft names, jsut because the latter didn't agreed on photos thing
Jun 23 21:59:07 <Estel_> Well, whole Doc. He's ignoring me on irc for same reason so... His right to do, anyway *shrugs*
Jun 23 21:59:19 <Estel_> Hurrian, abil was, probably, fiorst one on my list
Jun 23 21:59:31 <Estel_> then some idiot, james bondage or whatever, hes absent for ages
Jun 23 21:59:32 <Estel_> ed_boner
Jun 23 21:59:34 <Estel_> arie
Jun 23 21:59:42 <Estel_> IDK, haven't che3cked ignore list for ages
Jun 23 21:59:52 <Estel_> mrsomething
Jun 23 21:59:56 <Estel_> or how is he called
Jun 23 22:00:07 <Estel_> every single one earned it by hard trolling work :p
Jun 23 22:00:27 <vi___> I have no-one.
Jun 23 22:00:37 <Estel_> honestly, we have much more im portant things to do, consider lack of Nokia's funding, nthat is coming
Jun 23 22:00:51 <Estel_> vi_, I jsut don't have time to read through they useless posts
Jun 23 22:00:59 <Estel_> preffer to jump straight into useful things
Jun 23 22:01:17 <Estel_> Hurrian, honestly, I would let "Ca results announced" thread alone
Jun 23 22:01:25 <Estel_> belive me, it will die itself very quickly, without feed for trolls
Jun 23 22:01:41 <Estel_> what they're gonna do? quote themselves and answer?
Jun 23 22:01:58 <vi___> but it will not die.
Jun 23 22:02:04 <Estel_> everything that was worth saying, we've written at least 15 times, already
Jun 23 22:02:09 <Estel_> it will, You'll see ;)
Jun 23 22:02:13 <vi___> there is some very bad feelings.
Jun 23 22:02:22 <Estel_> it was living, because we've replied, unnecessary, about same thingsd, over and over
Jun 23 22:02:33 <Estel_> stop feeding troll -> troll goes somewhere else
Jun 23 22:03:06 <Estel_> everyone who got brain made up own mind already - be it "I think it's ok" or "they're corrupted fellas!", whatever
Jun 23 22:03:18 <Estel_> the other ones are there just for trolling purposes
Jun 23 22:03:35 <vi___> well i have read enough to feel bad about winning now.
Jun 23 22:03:40 <Estel_> be it long-time trolls like abil or Arie (who advance din trolling art quite quickly), or newbie-trolls like ZogG, who still think that he got some merit
Jun 23 22:03:53 <Estel_> vi_, honestly, almsot no one would expect that from You
Jun 23 22:03:56 <Estel_> so serious mode on:
Jun 23 22:04:04 <Hurrian> agreed, it's become a toxic topic on TMO, and needs to be left alone for the time being
Jun 23 22:04:22 <Estel_> Your award is well earned, and anyone trying to disregard it should be slapped into face by rusty fork
Jun 23 22:04:39 <Estel_> BTW - have You read Felipe Chrochik mail?
Jun 23 22:04:57 <Estel_> the one, where he said, that he wanted to donate device to someone, but cxhecking lsit, everyone deserving reward was awarded already?
Jun 23 22:05:17 <Estel_> it was really nice to read such thing from one of gurus
Jun 23 22:05:25 <Estel_> not to mention freemangordon, jacispedro, lma etc
Jun 23 22:05:51 <Estel_> BTW, freemangordon, thanks for taking aprt in that warzone, i know You don't like writing in shitstorm threads
Jun 23 22:06:08 <Estel_> now, there is only CC running :D
Jun 23 22:06:22 <Estel_> expect another, much smaller round of whinning by arie and co then
Jun 23 22:06:33 <Estel_> especially, when Maemo program will be awarded by harmattan device
Jun 23 22:06:38 <Estel_> program = application, here
Jun 23 22:06:46 <Estel_> but, honestly, who care?
Jun 23 22:07:22 <Estel_> I'm absolutely sure CC will be held next year too, really, those aries/abil/zog pack isn't worth so much worrying. We've had worse flamewars already
Jun 23 22:07:41 <vi___> the maemo coding competiton is judged by all TMO right?
Jun 23 22:07:45 <Estel_> vi_, real;ly, don't feel bad about Your win - in other case, prize would be jsut forwarded to CC. 
Jun 23 22:07:53 <Estel_> vi_,, not only TMO
Jun 23 22:07:57 <Estel_> basically, something like election
Jun 23 22:08:01 <Estel_> karma minimum of 10, etc
Jun 23 22:08:46 <Estel_> BTw, have You seen Saera project (topic on TMO)?> It's very promising
Jun 23 22:08:56 <Estel_> I know, I know, it's only basic AI, but having something like that in N900...
Jun 23 22:09:07 <vi___> so all eyes and INABT will still get their devices.
Jun 23 22:09:13 <Estel_> ...and teching few hundreds of smart conversation lines...
Jun 23 22:09:21 <Estel_> vi_, , i doubt it
Jun 23 22:09:24 <Hurrian> Estel_, yup, finally a complete, pre-packaged PocketSphinx implementation
Jun 23 22:09:26 <Estel_> maybe e-yes
Jun 23 22:09:34 <Estel_> inabt would need to do somewthing useful, actually...
Jun 23 22:09:38 <Estel_> instead of scavenging javispedro work
Jun 23 22:09:51 <Estel_> Hurrian, yea
Jun 23 22:10:00 <Estel_> I'm going to teach her polish.
Jun 23 22:10:04 <Estel_> not polish thing
Jun 23 22:10:07 <Estel_> but Polish language :p
Jun 23 22:10:14 <Hurrian> I really think it needs a rework to avoid stepping on Apple's toes.
Jun 23 22:10:17 <vi___> Estel_: kto?
Jun 23 22:10:24 <Estel_> next step - virtual sexc emulator, to give aries something to do instead of writing :P
Jun 23 22:10:31 <Estel_> vi_, ja
Jun 23 22:10:46 <Estel_> Hurrian, agreed
Jun 23 22:10:55 <Estel_> MohammadAG, what you had in mind by "Estel_, please fix it"
Jun 23 22:10:56 <Estel_> ?
Jun 23 22:11:01 <Estel_> My photo is already on site
Jun 23 22:11:04 <Estel_> (council)
Jun 23 22:11:05 <Hurrian> Estel_, interface a USB masturbator using libusb?
Jun 23 22:11:12 <Estel_> Hurrian, haha
Jun 23 22:11:20 <Estel_> and connect him to it permanently
Jun 23 22:11:30 <Hurrian> iirc some japanese dating simulator videogames include those
Jun 23 22:11:34 <Estel_> or even better, to N9 with aegis error
Jun 23 22:11:36 <MohammadAG> Hurrian: With an x64 compatibility layer!!!
Jun 23 22:11:42 <vi___> now now chaps, no need to get personal.
Jun 23 22:11:55 <Estel_> Hurrian, why they clal it dating?
Jun 23 22:11:55 <MohammadAG> Estel_: I'm not sure why I pinged you then :p
Jun 23 22:11:59 <Estel_> it'sd all about last part ;0
Jun 23 22:12:19 <MohammadAG> Must've made a mistake cause I remember actually seeing it
Jun 23 22:12:26 <Estel_> I see, np.
Jun 23 22:12:45 <Estel_> MohammadAG, any plans to move cssu-thumb to cssu-testing or -devel, actually?
Jun 23 22:12:53 <Estel_> it seems to be more mature than current cssu-devel
Jun 23 22:13:03 <Estel_> AFAIK it's up to You or merlin
Jun 23 22:13:15 <Estel_> (as maintainers)
Jun 23 22:13:34 <MohammadAG> No, we have oppositions about forcing everyone to thumb
Jun 23 22:13:45 <Hurrian> ...speaking of libusb, did anyone get the memo that it's deprecated by libusbx? I think that finally means developing 0xFFFF as main priority flasher should be higher now
Jun 23 22:13:52 <MohammadAG> I'll leave you to discuss that with DocScrutinizer in your own time frame
Jun 23 22:14:00 <Estel_> MohammadAG, LOL? CSSu is forcing many other things, already
Jun 23 22:14:02 <MohammadAG> Note: requires at least 2 hours
Jun 23 22:14:07 <Estel_> and I'm not talking about oeprator widget only ;)
Jun 23 22:14:16 <Estel_> MohammadAG, discussing with DocScrutinizer is futile
Jun 23 22:14:17 <MohammadAG> Estel_: Not as big as thumb
Jun 23 22:14:25 <MohammadAG> This has a potential ABI break
Jun 23 22:14:25 <Hurrian> MohammadAG, let's wait for another two releases of cssu-testing before pushing it into CSSU Main
Jun 23 22:14:38 <Estel_> well, so point single meritocratic argument of any con caused by thumb.
Jun 23 22:14:43 <Hurrian> side note: CSSU thumb forces you to use k-p, and not the nokia kernel
Jun 23 22:14:51 <Hurrian> so nokia kernel purists who use cssu may bitch
Jun 23 22:14:59 <Estel_> Hurrian, yea. But that's later about cssu and cssu-kp
Jun 23 22:15:06 <MohammadAG> Estel_: Camera ui and the oerator widget while indeed forced do not cause some sort of ABI break
Jun 23 22:15:13 <Estel_> Hurrian, lets leave them non-kernel variant of CSSu, but it shouldn't be main
Jun 23 22:15:25 <Estel_> MohammadAG, what is broken by thumb now?
Jun 23 22:15:47 <MohammadAG> Thumb does, it needs a new kernel and thus we need to ensure that all kernels support it and we nee to ship our own kernel for those not using kernel power
Jun 23 22:15:55 <Estel_> despite saving memory and rootfs space, which is rather pros?
Jun 23 22:16:00 <Estel_> MohammadAG, see few lines above.
Jun 23 22:16:00 <MohammadAG> Nothing, it's an ABI break
Jun 23 22:16:09 <Estel_> like enter and kp_enter in terminal?;)
Jun 23 22:16:15 <MohammadAG> Google ABI break of you're not familiar with the term
Jun 23 22:16:19 <Estel_> honestly, it sounds ratyher ideological.
Jun 23 22:16:23 <Estel_> I am.
Jun 23 22:16:32 <SpeedEvil> Umm - isn't thumb deprecated and partially broken on the n900 proc?
Jun 23 22:16:38 <Estel_> of course it's up to you, but CSSU is now veyr fragmented, which is quite funny for project with so low suer-base
Jun 23 22:16:38 <MohammadAG> Estel_: It requires recompiled binaries
Jun 23 22:16:44 <Hurrian> SpeedEvil, it's fixed now
Jun 23 22:16:48 <SpeedEvil> ah :)
Jun 23 22:16:48 <Estel_> (objectively, not subjectively vs Maemo at all)
Jun 23 22:16:49 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil: Fixed
Jun 23 22:16:57 <SpeedEvil> Sorry - not been keeping up.
Jun 23 22:17:00 <Estel_> MohammadAG, no, it doesn't. ARM binaries works fine
Jun 23 22:17:08 <Estel_> it require recompiling to benefit from thumb
Jun 23 22:17:20 <MohammadAG> No, it's not up to me, I got hammered when I said I don't mind thumb in main branch
Jun 23 22:17:23 <Estel_> + we have kernel-power-settings that depend onw rong thing, but it's rather not CSSU problem
Jun 23 22:17:33 <Estel_> MohammadAG, so don't let Yourself be hammered so easily, without merit
Jun 23 22:17:40 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer is stubborn without any merit there
Jun 23 22:17:53 <MohammadAG> Estel_: Yes, and if someone switches kernels they can't use those binaries
Jun 23 22:17:55 <Estel_> and his personal ego can't obstruct CSSu development, IMO
Jun 23 22:17:59 <MohammadAG> Resulting in an unstable system
Jun 23 22:18:02 <Estel_> I agreed with kernel
Jun 23 22:18:09 <Estel_> I see no rpoblems with CSSU-kernel and CSSU-lite variant
Jun 23 22:18:19 <MohammadAG> Estel_: I simply give up, less headache
Jun 23 22:18:19 <Estel_> it's natural, that the lite one will be maintained and featured less.
Jun 23 22:18:30 <Hurrian> wow, that's fragmented.
Jun 23 22:18:43 <vi___> I do not believ thumb belongs in cssu-main.
Jun 23 22:18:46 <MohammadAG> No personal attacks, please!
Jun 23 22:18:48 <Estel_> MohammadAG, bad practice, giving up make folk like DocScrutinizer think, that if they shout loudly enough, they will have everything like they like.
Jun 23 22:18:52 <Estel_> no problem :)
Jun 23 22:18:59 <Estel_> I'mattacking position, not person.
Jun 23 22:19:07 <vi___> It does not smell right.
Jun 23 22:19:11 <Estel_> I jsut don't accept "you won't hijack CSSU" as answer, why thumb is bad, and other changes aren't.
Jun 23 22:19:28 <Estel_> now we have CSSu-Stable, being not updated for ages
Jun 23 22:19:28 <MohammadAG> Estel_: He has valid points, he's entitled to make an opinion
Jun 23 22:19:34 <Estel_> CSSU-Testing, working as CSSU-main
Jun 23 22:19:36 <Hurrian> vi___, all that's needed to be done is to prove that thumb code executes properly on CPU
Jun 23 22:19:46 <Estel_> MohammadAG, I absolutely agree. for opinion, not for blocking.
Jun 23 22:19:55 <Estel_> Hurrian, it's proved already.
Jun 23 22:19:57 <vi___> Hurrian: yes, however it is a one way ticket.
Jun 23 22:20:07 <Hurrian> ?
Jun 23 22:20:10 <Estel_> ...then, we have CSSU-devel, sue dby almsot no one...
Jun 23 22:20:16 <Estel_> And CSSu-thumb, acting as -devel
Jun 23 22:20:24 <Estel_> So, *reral* world looks like:
Jun 23 22:20:24 <MohammadAG> Estel_: If his opinion is agreed upon by others then I wouldn't argue
Jun 23 22:20:40 <Estel_> MohammadAG, I seem to reclal that You said You don't mind thumb in main
Jun 23 22:20:41 <Estel_> anyway
Jun 23 22:20:58 <Estel_> reality is, that we have CSSU-Testing as main, and CSSU-thumb as testing
Jun 23 22:21:01 <Estel_> mutualy incompatible
Jun 23 22:21:07 <MohammadAG> Estel_: Yes, but If DocScrutinizer and others suggested not to do that for valid reasons, I won't force it
Jun 23 22:21:09 <Estel_> then, we have CSSU-Stable as "legacy"
Jun 23 22:21:13 <Estel_> and CSSu-devel failing to provide.
Jun 23 22:21:25 <Estel_> OK, no problem. i'm making my points too
Jun 23 22:21:26 <Hurrian> imo, since our N900s have such limited compute power, it's best that we utilize all it's features when we can
Jun 23 22:21:35 <MohammadAG> I started the cssu, I could be thought of the main leader of it but with great "power" comes great resposibility
Jun 23 22:21:35 <Estel_> it's CSSu maintainers responsibility, i'm not stepping in Your shoes
Jun 23 22:21:49 <Hurrian> we /may/ break some programs in corner cases, but it only means it should be fixed and tested more, not roll back
Jun 23 22:21:52 <Estel_> eh, spidermen quotation again?
Jun 23 22:21:52 <MohammadAG> There's a good user base running the cssu, we can't break stuff for them
Jun 23 22:22:04 <Estel_> I liked times when people were watching original star wars trilogy and lord of the rings, more :)
Jun 23 22:22:15 <Estel_> MohammadAG, who said about breaking?
Jun 23 22:22:19 <Estel_> you have CSSU-stable
Jun 23 22:22:20 <MohammadAG> Estel_: It shows when you run sudo for the first time on Debian
Jun 23 22:22:26 <Estel_> CSSU-thumb is ready for CSSU-devel, anyway
Jun 23 22:22:33 <MohammadAG> That's where I learned it, never seen spidey
Jun 23 22:22:38 <Estel_> thanks godness ;)
Jun 23 22:22:49 <MohammadAG> Estel_: Typical situation
Jun 23 22:22:53 <MohammadAG> User installs cssu
Jun 23 22:22:55 <Estel_> anyway, i jsut don't realize why CSSU-devel isn't good place for thumb
Jun 23 22:22:58 <MohammadAG> User uses thumb binaries
Jun 23 22:23:09 * Estel_ is listening
Jun 23 22:23:18 <MohammadAG> User decided to legally hack a wifi network by using the supported kerne
Jun 23 22:23:34 <MohammadAG> User blindly follows tutorial instructing him to use kernel
Jun 23 22:23:47 <Estel_> so we have user error, already. CSSU problem?
Jun 23 22:24:03 <MohammadAG> User installs kernel with WLAN drivers, ends up with unbootable drivers
Jun 23 22:24:11 <Hurrian> mp-fremantle-community-pr-thumb Conflicts: kernel-power < 51
Jun 23 22:24:11 <MohammadAG> Err, unbootable or unstable system
Jun 23 22:24:15 <MohammadAG> Sorry, I'm tired
Jun 23 22:24:15 <Estel_> there are still tutorials, where people are supposeds kp4-wl1
Jun 23 22:24:27 <Estel_> MohammadAG, LOL, thisa way we should use kp50
Jun 23 22:24:36 <Estel_> cause it break, when user flashed kp46-wl1
Jun 23 22:24:45 <MohammadAG> Hurrian: That's not the only kernel and Debian packaging isn't the only way of installing a custom kernel
Jun 23 22:24:52 <MohammadAG> You could use flasher
Jun 23 22:24:52 <Estel_> not to mention ,that this can be handled easily by dependencies and conflicts.
Jun 23 22:25:04 <Hurrian> mp-fremantle-community-pr-thumb Requires: kernel-thumb-support
Jun 23 22:25:09 <Hurrian> fixed!
Jun 23 22:25:10 <Estel_> MohammadAG, if someone use flasher for that, it's his damn responsibility
Jun 23 22:25:14 <Estel_> to ensure that he isn't dumbie.
Jun 23 22:25:20 <Estel_> Hurrian, agree
Jun 23 22:25:30 <Estel_> thinking like that, we would be sittinjg on Nokia kernel without CSSu at all
Jun 23 22:25:33 <Hurrian> anything else is idiot intentionally breaking system
Jun 23 22:25:42 <MohammadAG> No, the fact that online guides make it easy doesn't
Jun 23 22:25:44 <Estel_> anyway, I understand that You're tired MohammadAG,. not keeping You with prolonged discussion
Jun 23 22:26:01 <Hurrian> anyways, user should be able to mount fremantle rootfs from nemo and reinstall correct modules and flash kernel
Jun 23 22:26:09 <MohammadAG> No, I'm tired so I will make typing mistakes
Jun 23 22:26:15 <Estel_> MohammadAG, everyone can use dpkg --force or flasher, no matter what
Jun 23 22:26:19 <MohammadAG> It's not my way of leaving a discussion
Jun 23 22:26:19 <Estel_> ah I see
Jun 23 22:26:24 <Estel_> no problem, I also do them ;)
Jun 23 22:26:36 <Estel_> Well, idiot can force installation of kp46-wl1 modules on kp50
Jun 23 22:26:37 <MohammadAG> Estel_: Flasher is easier to use than dpkg --gorce
Jun 23 22:26:38 <Estel_> so what?
Jun 23 22:26:42 <MohammadAG> According to online guides
Jun 23 22:26:48 <Estel_> arguable, but even if...
Jun 23 22:26:50 <Macer> anybody try a roku?
Jun 23 22:26:59 <Estel_> we shouldn't give a shit about random online guide.
Jun 23 22:27:06 <Hurrian> shouldn
Jun 23 22:27:24 <Estel_> If I write guige to do crossover USb cable, plug it into main, and enable hostmode...
Jun 23 22:27:25 <Hurrian> *shouldn't we simply paint a big, fat banner that idorts need to use modern kernels?
Jun 23 22:27:27 <Estel_> Should we banish hostmode?
Jun 23 22:27:51 <Estel_> ^^^ yes for what Hurrian said
Jun 23 22:28:09 <vi___> you cannot do that.
Jun 23 22:28:12 <Hurrian> actually, fmg's thumb enable patch should be in all kernels built from here on out
Jun 23 22:28:19 <Estel_> Don't take iot as personal, but IMO DocScrutinizer is jsut pivoting CSSu to his own "vision" suited only for his particular device, which is becoming mroe and more irritating for casual users
Jun 23 22:28:31 <vi___> You have to make it idiot proof.
Jun 23 22:28:34 <DocScrutinizer05> SpeedEvil: no, it's not fixed. It has a _amybe_ working workaround in kernel space
Jun 23 22:28:45 <Macer> lol. well... he put in a lot of work
Jun 23 22:28:47 <Estel_> honestly, we have so low ammount of devs working on CSSu, that You can't even get bug report acknowledged, when written in one of 6 CSSU threadfs
Jun 23 22:28:59 <Estel_> CSSu-stable, CSSU-Testing, CSSU-devel, CSSU-thumb...
Jun 23 22:29:06 <Estel_> Tommorow we will have CSSU-Thumb-testing
Jun 23 22:29:06 <vi___> Estel_: that is absurd.
Jun 23 22:29:08 <Estel_> CSSU-thumb-devel
Jun 23 22:29:12 <Estel_> CSSU-arse-crack
Jun 23 22:29:19 <Estel_> CSSU-nokernel-stable
Jun 23 22:29:23 <Estel_> CSSU-kernel-stable...
Jun 23 22:29:25 <NIN101> ...
Jun 23 22:29:36 <Estel_> and whole 3 people working on all of them
Jun 23 22:29:51 <Estel_> + programmers of other applications, screwing this and writing for compatibility with latest CSSu only
Jun 23 22:29:55 <Estel_> or even worse, one that they feel fancy most
Jun 23 22:30:07 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, is wrong, again
Jun 23 22:30:22 <Estel_> freemangordon got *absolutely* working workaround in kernel secure mode.
Jun 23 22:30:42 <Estel_> Judging by that, we have _maybe_ working hostmode, _maybe_ working wifi with injection, and _maybe_ working CSSU
Jun 23 22:31:07 <Estel_> disrespecting freemangordon work, just because it doesn't suit personal tatse, is just... Well, I'll refrain from naming it.
Jun 23 22:31:40 <Estel_> BTW, we're talking about CSSU-tumb going into CSSU-devel
Jun 23 22:31:42 <Estel_> *devel*
Jun 23 22:31:45 <Estel_> magiv 5 letters
Jun 23 22:31:50 <Estel_> s/magiv/magic/
Jun 23 22:31:51 <infobot> Estel_ meant: magic 5 letters
Jun 23 22:32:24 <Estel_> no one said that it has to go stable tommorow.
Jun 23 22:32:37 <Estel_> Just, today's plentora-repo and plentora-topic scenario is absurd.
Jun 23 22:33:01 <Estel_> tommorow, we will end with 10 CSSu vfariants, everyone used by 5 people. + 3 variants used by devs and maintainers only.
Jun 23 22:33:13 <Estel_> ah, whatever. Not my cup of tea, anyway
Jun 23 22:33:25 * Estel_ is going to do full-backup and upgrade CSSU-thumb
Jun 23 22:35:06 <Estel_> freemangordon, could it be related to compcache? http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1225181&postcount=266
Jun 23 22:36:15 <Estel_> from the other barrel of vine - I've read about harmattan view on /etc/event.d and aegis...
Jun 23 22:36:33 <Estel_> I'm jsut going to throw Mer into N950 as soon as it arrives,even though it isn't and probably never will be fully hardware supported :/
Jun 23 22:39:17 <Estel_> ~botsnack
Jun 23 22:39:17 <infobot> Estel_: thanks
Jun 23 22:39:33 <DocScrutinizer05> ~useless
Jun 23 22:39:34 * infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer05 in the darkest corner of the room. :(
Jun 23 22:40:22 <DocScrutinizer05> ~hostmode
Jun 23 22:40:23 <infobot> hostmode is, like, piece of crap written by morons to fry other people's devices! beware!
Jun 23 22:40:48 <DocScrutinizer05> ~h-e-n
Jun 23 22:40:49 <infobot> do ~hostmode  and  ~factinfo hostmode, this is your maemo council :-/
Jun 23 22:45:20 <Hurrian> Estel_, pm
Jun 23 22:45:47 <Estel_> Hurrian, on TMO?
Jun 23 22:50:48 <Estel_> ocscrutinizing
Jun 23 22:50:59 <Estel_> ~DocScrutinizing
Jun 23 22:51:00 <infobot> it has been said that docscrutinizing is when someone value his ideology, ti the point of trying to force it on others, no matter of cost. Possible use case are a) infobot abuse b) threats for kick on IRC c) calling "idiot" anyone, who doesn't agree. Also, see zealot or pottering.
Jun 23 22:51:59 <DocScrutinizing> ~forget docscrutinizing
Jun 23 22:52:01 <infobot> i forgot docscrutinizing, DocScrutinizing
Jun 23 22:52:09 <DocScrutinizing> ~lock docscrutinizing
Jun 23 22:52:13 <Estel_> ;)
Jun 23 22:52:44 <DocScrutinizing> ~docscrutinizing is a nonsense invented by estel_ as he's a fool
Jun 23 22:52:46 <infobot> DocScrutinizing: okay
Jun 23 22:52:48 <DocScrutinizing> ~lock docscrutinizing
Jun 23 22:52:48 <infobot> locking factoid docscrutinizing, DocScrutinizing
Jun 23 22:53:31 <Estel_> fun things happen on IRC during night, yep? It's almost like minecraft night mode.
Jun 23 22:53:51 <DocScrutinizer05> Estel_: warning! pending kickban for bot abuse on purpose of personal insult
Jun 23 22:54:15 <Estel_> Docscrutinizer! warning~pwnding removal of chanop operator, for threatening with power abuse.
Jun 23 22:54:22 <Estel_> or even of ;0
Jun 23 22:54:37 <Estel_> ~pottering
Jun 23 22:55:02 <Estel_> ~pöttering
Jun 23 22:55:22 <NIN101> kids everywhere. 
Jun 23 22:55:30 <Estel_> sure, we have baby-boom.
Jun 23 22:58:03 <M4rtinK> hey, I once saw Lennart in person :)
Jun 23 22:58:38 <Estel_> ~kickban
Jun 23 22:58:39 <infobot> rumour has it, kickban is tool, that was used to manage irc account in good old days. Reportedly, on #maemo, it's only thing some people have to say, when they hypocrytic behavior of pivoting infobot is revealed. Also, see ~pivoting
Jun 23 22:59:02 <Estel_> M4rtinK, and how he was like?
Jun 23 22:59:06 <Estel_> Normal person, I suppose?
Jun 23 22:59:21 <DocScrutinizer05> ~factinfo kickban
Jun 23 22:59:22 <infobot> kickban -- created by Estel_ <~Estel@Maemo/Community/council/Estel-> 1m 7s ago; it has been requested once, last by Estel_, 43s ago.
Jun 23 22:59:28 <DocScrutinizer05> ~forget kickban
Jun 23 22:59:28 <infobot> i forgot kickban, DocScrutinizer05
Jun 23 22:59:47 <nox-> http://mirror.fem-net.de/CCC/27C3/mp4-h264-HQ/27c3-4017-en-desktop_on_the_linux.mp4
Jun 23 22:59:52 <nox-> re poettering
Jun 23 23:00:00 <nox-> http://events.ccc.de/congress/2010/Fahrplan/events/4017.en.html
Jun 23 23:00:09 <Estel_> BTW, we will need to talk a little abotu 3rd party infobot statyus on IRC
Jun 23 23:00:11 <NIN101> ah yeah, i was their in RL when he was highjacking this talk.
Jun 23 23:00:18 <nox-> heh
Jun 23 23:00:25 <Estel_> it's quiite not Ok, than one, biased person, keep admin rights over this tool.
Jun 23 23:00:25 * nox- only watched the stream
Jun 23 23:00:33 <M4rtinK> looked normal :)
Jun 23 23:00:35 <DocScrutinizer05> a very funny one
Jun 23 23:01:33 <M4rtinK> I've heard he is not the best moderator in the world :)
Jun 23 23:01:42 * DocScrutinizer05 lols at momentary glance of unfiltered chanlog
Jun 23 23:02:17 <Estel_> ~infobot
Jun 23 23:02:19 <infobot> well, infobot is a 3rd party tool, that will transfer into proper channel tool soon, instead of being toy managed by one guy only, and pivoted to his needs.
Jun 23 23:02:27 <NIN101> OMG it's getting ridiculous Estel_ 
Jun 23 23:02:38 <Estel_> NIN101, You're missing fun from TMO Ca thread?;)
Jun 23 23:02:46 <NIN101> not at all.
Jun 23 23:02:52 <DocScrutinizer05> for the records: infobot is absolutely completely unrelated to Nokia, #maemo, or any other domain some people here think they have to conquer to increase their self esteem
Jun 23 23:03:16 <Estel_> ~3rdparty is when something is not related to Nokia, @maemo, or whatever
Jun 23 23:03:17 <infobot> Estel_: okay
Jun 23 23:03:21 <Estel_> ~3rdparty
Jun 23 23:03:22 <infobot> methinks 3rdparty is when something is not related to Nokia, @maemo, or whatever
Jun 23 23:03:31 <Estel_> for the records ;)
Jun 23 23:03:33 <DocScrutinizer05> the only relation between infobot and #amemo is it's been invited by chanowner(!)
Jun 23 23:04:03 <Estel_> nice. Thanks for info, we will contact chanowner about this issue.
Jun 23 23:04:39 <Estel_> factoids are fun toys, but shouldn't be used to manipulate facts, like
Jun 23 23:04:55 <Estel_> ~h-e-en
Jun 23 23:04:59 <Estel_> ~h-e-n
Jun 23 23:05:00 <infobot> do ~hostmode  and  ~factinfo hostmode, this is your maemo council :-/
Jun 23 23:05:17 <Estel_> ~manipulation is something like ~h-e-n
Jun 23 23:05:18 <infobot> Estel_: okay
Jun 23 23:05:22 <Estel_> ~manipulation
Jun 23 23:05:24 <infobot> methinks manipulation is something like ~h-e-n
Jun 23 23:05:46 <Estel_> OK fellas, tired of this BS. See ya tommorow
Jun 23 23:05:49 * Estel_ waves
Jun 23 23:05:55 <DocScrutinizer05> ok, it seems time to tweak her ignore list as well
Jun 23 23:07:06 <DocScrutinizer05> ~forget manipulation
Jun 23 23:07:07 <infobot> i forgot manipulation, DocScrutinizer05
Jun 23 23:08:10 <DocScrutinizer05> ~factinfo infobot
Jun 23 23:08:14 <infobot> infobot -- created by Jupe <~rez@fl-71-55-208-129.dhcp.embarqhsd.net> at Wed Nov 16 23:40:52 2011 (219 days); last modified 6m 9s ago  by Estel_!~Estel@Maemo/Community/council/Estel-; it has been requested 81 times, last by Estel_, 5m 53s ago.
Jun 23 23:08:22 <DocScrutinizer05> ~forget infobot
Jun 23 23:08:24 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05: i forgot infobot
Jun 23 23:16:27 <DocScrutinizer05> since overriding factoids like ~infobot is an offensive act and not conforming to supposed good will in using the bot
Jun 23 23:19:14 <DocScrutinizer05> as generally is deletion or complete redefinition of established factoids, to make them meet personal preferences or channel specific info
Jun 23 23:23:55 <Macer> YELLOW CARD!
Jun 23 23:47:48 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer bitching as usual? See ~h-e-n that You've overwritten yourself, then lockied.
Jun 23 23:48:49 <Estel_> do what Yuo want, for me You've lost any reasonability and donm't qualify to moderate anything, be it maemo irc channel, or even toy as infobot. I'll do my best, to forward every log of Your abuse to correct authority.
Jun 23 23:49:21 <Estel_> Of course, when time permits, as we have *much* more important things to do, than one childlish chanop in IRC. Keep that in mind, no one is unremovable.
Jun 23 23:57:07 <GeneralAntilles> Can I ban?
Jun 23 23:57:10 <GeneralAntilles> I want to ban?
Jun 23 23:57:18 <GeneralAntilles> Or maybe just +q.
Jun 23 23:57:20 <RST38h> No, but you can whine
Jun 23 23:57:37 <RST38h> Or troll. In fact, trolling is morespectacular
Jun 23 23:57:57 <GeneralAntilles> I haven't trolled in a while.
Jun 23 23:58:09 <GeneralAntilles> I should get the crew back on Live or something.
Jun 23 23:59:51 <DocScrutinizer05> GeneralAntilles: I'm welcoming any assistance/stand-in, in whatever form
Jun 24 00:00:10 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer05, but that means I'd have to read scrollback
Jun 24 00:00:16 <GeneralAntilles> and figure out exactly what happened. :<
Jun 24 00:00:32 <DocScrutinizer05> :-P
Jun 24 00:00:42 <DocScrutinizer05> well, that's part of the game, yes
Jun 24 00:01:04 <GeneralAntilles> But my eyes are already bleeding.
Jun 24 00:01:09 <GeneralAntilles> Why do you two want to make my eyes bleed more?
Jun 24 00:01:16 <DocScrutinizer05> actually for both, banning and (proper good) trolling
Jun 24 00:01:58 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm actually doing very little that I don't feel like mandatory moderation action
Jun 24 00:02:30 <DocScrutinizer05> when somebody is abusing ibot, I start action to fix this
Jun 24 00:03:48 <DocScrutinizer05> depending on the main field of impact, either on bot side or channel moderation side (if applicable)
Jun 24 00:04:27 <DocScrutinizer05> not planning to hurt your eyes :-D
Jun 24 00:06:22 <DocScrutinizer05> but actually I hope it's already a closed ticket, so no need for you to take further action - at least that's what I hope is result of some settings tweaking behind the scenes I did
Jun 24 00:08:42 <DocScrutinizer05> GeneralAntilles: on a more joyful topic - what do you think about our infra future?
Jun 24 00:09:19 <javispedro> moo gentlemen!
Jun 24 00:09:25 <DocScrutinizer05> HEEEY!!!
Jun 24 00:09:32 <DocScrutinizer05> javispedro: !! :-))))
Jun 24 00:10:03 <DocScrutinizer05> long time no see!
Jun 24 00:10:46 <javispedro> prolly
Jun 24 00:11:00 <javispedro> how's #maemo feeling tooday
Jun 24 00:11:19 <DocScrutinizer05> recently a bit mad, but nothing really unusual
Jun 24 00:11:22 <RST38h> Moo, javispedro
Jun 24 00:11:33 <RST38h> What brings you here at 3:11 or whatever time it is?
Jun 24 00:11:39 <javispedro> 2:11
Jun 24 00:12:08 <RST38h> Oh
Jun 24 00:12:28 <javispedro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_John%27s_Eve#Spain
Jun 24 00:12:42 <javispedro> so i'm outside enjoying someone else's fireworks
Jun 24 00:12:50 <DocScrutinizer05> hey, nice
Jun 24 00:12:58 <RST38h> Ah!
Jun 24 00:13:50 <DocScrutinizer05> that's Spain the way I like it - fireworks at 2o'clock in the night
Jun 24 00:14:44 <javispedro> :)
Jun 24 00:14:53 <javispedro> though the average rate is already decreasing :)
Jun 24 00:15:39 <RST38h> Doc: Getting this shit all over the year in Moscow
Jun 24 00:16:39 <GeneralAntilles> Hey, javispedro.
Jun 24 00:16:43 <GeneralAntilles> How's life?
Jun 24 00:16:46 <RST38h> Doc: as every fat pig feelslike buying fireworksfor his birthday
Jun 24 00:16:50 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, Moscow is insane, thought as much
Jun 24 00:22:31 <javispedro> GeneralAntilles, finely doing
Jun 24 00:22:46 <javispedro> I am starting my slow descent into apple cult
Jun 24 00:22:53 <RST38h> no noooooo
Jun 24 00:22:53 * javispedro types from an mba
Jun 24 00:23:13 <RST38h> go with the huge green trashcan
Jun 24 00:23:17 <GeneralAntilles> javispedro, meh, nothing wrong with their computers (for the time being, at least until they turn them into appliances).
Jun 24 00:23:22 <GeneralAntilles> It's the mobile devices where the trouble is.
Jun 24 00:23:30 <GeneralAntilles> Anyway, glad to hear it, javispedro. :)
Jun 24 00:23:33 <RST38h> not that it is good, but at least it is not viral
Jun 24 00:24:31 <javispedro> one cannot enter an apple store with a $2000 prepaid card and exit empty handled :)
Jun 24 00:24:44 <javispedro> *handed
Jun 24 00:25:04 <RST38h> javispedro: So, the question "who gave you the first one as a present?" is fully valid?
Jun 24 00:25:22 <RST38h> how evil they are, those Apple cultists!
Jun 24 00:26:04 <javispedro> :)
Jun 24 00:27:29 <DocScrutinizer05> 2000$ prepaid card - DUH!
Jun 24 00:27:46 <Hurrian> javispedro, all my apple stuff are presents/free stuff
Jun 24 00:28:01 <RST38h> He can still survive this if he buys a MacBook and instals Win7 on it
Jun 24 00:28:06 <Hurrian> it's incredible how something I actively avoid buying ends up here
Jun 24 00:28:27 <RST38h> Ritually killing MacOS in its hardware womb!
Jun 24 00:29:13 <javispedro> RST38h is right in that I'm actually trying to scavenge a w7 license to see how fast it boots :)
Jun 24 00:29:26 <DocScrutinizer05> haha
Jun 24 00:29:39 <GeneralAntilles> Boo, W7.
Jun 24 00:29:44 <DocScrutinizer05> wait, seems I got some stickers under my laptops
Jun 24 00:29:46 <GeneralAntilles> I'm recently enamored with Linux Mint Cinnamon.
Jun 24 00:29:56 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh, only xp
Jun 24 00:31:55 <javispedro> also, the store was on portland, OR, no tax...
Jun 24 00:32:10 <javispedro> don't tell spain's IRS, please :)
Jun 24 00:32:14 <RST38h> Hehe
Jun 24 00:32:40 * GeneralAntilles phones up the consulate.
Jun 24 00:33:14 <javispedro> well, gotta go!
Jun 24 00:33:36 <javispedro> cya soon hopefully
Jun 24 00:34:02 <GeneralAntilles> Tah
Jun 24 00:34:17 <RST38h> run for the board!
Jun 24 00:43:16 <RST38h> Mghm...why board? Border.
Jun 24 00:43:24 * RST38h wonders how this particular mistake has been made
Jun 24 00:44:27 <GeneralAntilles> Muscle memory is an awesome thing.
Jun 24 00:45:16 <Estel_> Hello GeneralAntilles! nice to see Your writings again
Jun 24 00:47:04 <DocScrutinizer05> GeneralAntilles: there's ever before been such flamewar against any maemo council?
Jun 24 00:47:32 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer05, the ITT -> Talk changeover was pretty toasty.
Jun 24 00:47:40 <DocScrutinizer05> mhm
Jun 24 00:49:53 <DocScrutinizer05> who's been driving that, back when?
Jun 24 00:50:12 <DocScrutinizer05> (just out of interest)
Jun 24 00:50:18 <GeneralAntilles> Driving the changeover?
Jun 24 00:50:22 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Jun 24 00:50:29 <GeneralAntilles> It was part of the maemo.org overhaul.
Jun 24 00:50:41 <GeneralAntilles> Mostly it was Reggie, I think.
Jun 24 00:50:45 <GeneralAntilles> Don't recall entirely.
Jun 24 00:50:49 <GeneralAntilles> That was, what, 2009?
Jun 24 00:50:53 <GeneralAntilles> Like, 30 years ago.
Jun 24 00:50:54 <DocScrutinizer05> I more asked about proponents
Jun 24 00:51:28 <DocScrutinizer05> who came up with the suggestion, who thought it's a good (or bad) idea?
Jun 24 00:51:44 <GeneralAntilles> Most of the maemo.org core people thought it was a good idea
Jun 24 00:51:50 <GeneralAntilles> I don't recall where the suggestion originated.
Jun 24 00:51:55 <GeneralAntilles> er
Jun 24 00:51:59 <GeneralAntilles> maemo.org and ITT core people
Jun 24 00:52:05 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
Jun 24 00:52:08 <RiD> potato
Jun 24 00:52:09 <GeneralAntilles> Most of the whining came from people whose names I don't recall.
Jun 24 00:52:22 <DocScrutinizer05> and the usual suspects rushed in whining and shouting, I guess
Jun 24 00:52:39 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah
Jun 24 00:52:47 <GeneralAntilles> Can't blame us for not communicating, though! :P
Jun 24 00:52:58 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah :-)
Jun 24 00:53:22 <DocScrutinizer05> what a crazy world this has become
Jun 24 00:54:07 <GeneralAntilles> Mixed up muddled up shook up world
Jun 24 00:54:30 * DocScrutinizer05 feels like inspecting fridge for a beer now
Jun 24 00:54:33 <RiD> i wonder what would happen if suddenly every technological device stopped wokrking
Jun 24 00:54:44 <RiD> we'd all probably die
Jun 24 00:54:49 <merlin1991> inspecting as if it has been there since years?
Jun 24 00:55:01 <DocScrutinizer05> damn sure we would - trolls on tmo first
Jun 24 00:55:13 <GeneralAntilles> Oh damn
Jun 24 00:55:16 <GeneralAntilles> That reminds me
Jun 24 00:55:17 <DocScrutinizer05> merlin1991: yep, exactly
Jun 24 00:55:23 <GeneralAntilles> I've got about 2 glasses left in a REALLY GOOD bottle of wine.
Jun 24 00:55:25 <GeneralAntilles> :o
Jun 24 00:55:40 <DocScrutinizer05> :-D yay
Jun 24 00:55:49 <RiD> in the literal way
Jun 24 00:55:56 <DocScrutinizer05> merlin1991: hi, btw :-)
Jun 24 00:56:52 <DocScrutinizer05> RiD: sure literally. And trolls literally would die from any mad action they can't keep themselves from doing when they can't troll anymore
Jun 24 00:57:40 <RiD> DocScrutinizer05, mind if I ask, what IRC client do you use on your n900?
Jun 24 00:57:51 <DocScrutinizer05> like... running out on the street shouting at next police officer and pointing at him with something that might look like a waepon
Jun 24 00:57:59 <GeneralAntilles> REALLY GOOD WINE
Jun 24 00:57:59 <DocScrutinizer05> xchat
Jun 24 00:58:01 <GeneralAntilles> That is all.
Jun 24 00:58:26 <RiD> DocScrutinizer05 have you figured out how to autocomplete nicknames? I didn't *cries*
Jun 24 00:58:26 <DocScrutinizer05> RiD: with proper config ;-D
Jun 24 00:58:36 <DocScrutinizer05> sure thing
Jun 24 00:58:43 <DocScrutinizer05> ~jrtools
Jun 24 00:58:45 <infobot> [jrtools] http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
Jun 24 00:58:50 <DocScrutinizer05> one up
Jun 24 00:58:54 <DocScrutinizer05> then /xchat
Jun 24 00:59:14 <DocScrutinizer05> I do autocomplete by shift-space
Jun 24 00:59:41 <DocScrutinizer05> other minor tweaks in those config and scriptie files there
Jun 24 00:59:58 <DocScrutinizer05> I think xchat becomes pretty usable that way
Jun 24 01:00:00 <RiD> DocScrutinizer05 oh, it works lol. Thanks for the link, definitely going to check out some stuff
Jun 24 01:00:14 <DocScrutinizer05> yw
Jun 24 01:01:02 <RiD> You know, I once almost got in trouble with a IRC moderator (not on freenode, though) because he didn't believe I wasn't on the computer
Jun 24 01:02:06 <RiD> "but you are on xchat"
Jun 24 01:02:16 <DocScrutinizer05> lol
Jun 24 01:02:18 <nox-> haha
Jun 24 01:02:47 <RiD> I had to take a print screen to show him I was not lying, lol
Jun 24 01:02:54 <merlin1991> hm all I have is Slivovitz
Jun 24 01:03:07 <merlin1991> DocScrutinizer05:  found that beer? :D
Jun 24 01:03:28 <DocScrutinizer05> dang, there's been something on my task stack....
Jun 24 01:03:33 * DocScrutinizer05 heads out
Jun 24 01:04:00 <DocScrutinizer05> YEAH \o/
Jun 24 01:04:16 <DocScrutinizer05> Krug-Brau Lager
Jun 24 01:04:57 <RiD> I got H20 mixed with some nitrogen to keep it cold
Jun 24 01:05:14 <RiD> best fridge I ever had
Jun 24 01:05:41 <DocScrutinizer05> cheers!
Jun 24 01:06:42 <trx> merlin1991 haha is it Serbian?
Jun 24 01:06:54 <merlin1991> trx: ofc :)
Jun 24 01:07:39 <DocScrutinizer05> RiD: /ctcp DocScrutinizer51 version
Jun 24 01:07:51 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
Jun 24 01:08:10 <DocScrutinizer05> not 05, 51!
Jun 24 01:08:21 <RiD> oh *sigh*
Jun 24 01:08:27 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-D
Jun 24 01:08:53 <RiD> xchat 2.8.6
Jun 24 01:09:43 <DocScrutinizer05> actually I'm a bit confused as I thought it will answer with a clue about "maemo" somehow
Jun 24 01:09:56 <DocScrutinizer05> but it doesn't it seems
Jun 24 01:10:46 * DocScrutinizer05 blames RST38h ;-P
Jun 24 01:11:15 <merlin1991> too much information makes it too easy for exploiters ;)
Jun 24 01:11:22 <DocScrutinizer05> haha
Jun 24 01:12:44 <RiD> it should say mars :/
Jun 24 01:12:55 <DocScrutinizer05> merlin1991: slivo is really amazing when digested warm (+50°C ++), when you put some pepper into the pot where you warm it up
Jun 24 01:13:30 <DocScrutinizer05> good black papper, not that tasteless grey dust
Jun 24 01:13:36 <DocScrutinizer05> pepper even
Jun 24 01:14:27 <DocScrutinizer05> think I learnt that at a yugoslavian restaurant
Jun 24 01:15:27 <merlin1991> they have a different slivo there
Jun 24 01:15:44 <DocScrutinizer05> *this* might actually be the case
Jun 24 01:17:42 <RiD> I have to go, see you all
Jun 24 01:17:51 <DocScrutinizer05> see you, RiD
Jun 24 01:17:57 <DocScrutinizer05> soon!
Jun 24 01:18:15 <RiD> hopefully
Jun 24 01:18:34 <DocScrutinizer05> what's .pt anyway?
Jun 24 01:19:02 * RiD feels offended
Jun 24 01:19:07 <DocScrutinizer05> how?
Jun 24 01:19:12 <RiD> PT is PorTugal
Jun 24 01:19:15 <DocScrutinizer05> aah
Jun 24 01:19:26 <RiD> not offended, but I thought Portugal was still in the map
Jun 24 01:19:27 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry, no clue about FLDs
Jun 24 01:19:40 <DocScrutinizer05> or TLD?
Jun 24 01:19:47 <RiD> I don't even know what FLD or TLD is
Jun 24 01:19:50 <RiD> lol
Jun 24 01:19:55 <DocScrutinizer05> top level domain
Jun 24 01:20:06 <RiD> oh, and what is fld then?
Jun 24 01:20:10 <DocScrutinizer05> the rightmost part of a URL
Jun 24 01:20:16 <DocScrutinizer05> first level
Jun 24 01:20:49 <DocScrutinizer05> as iirc things like google in google.com is second level
Jun 24 01:21:19 <DocScrutinizer05> ~fld
Jun 24 01:21:20 <infobot> First Level Domain
Jun 24 01:21:29 <DocScrutinizer05> ~wiki fld
Jun 24 01:21:38 <infobot> At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLD (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{redirect|FLD|Fisher's linear discriminant|Linear discriminant analysis}} {{Cleanup|date=October 2008}} "Most of the content is verified to be copyright-violation-free. Please edit the article to remove any copyright violation instead of deleting the article." {{Expert-verify|date=October 2008}} 'Ferro Liquid Display' or Ferro-electric Liquid Display (FLD) or Ferro Fluid Display (FFD) is ...
Jun 24 01:21:43 <RiD> that bot is way too smart. Anyways, don't stop me from going
Jun 24 01:21:58 <merlin1991> itsn't it tld
Jun 24 01:22:01 <merlin1991> as in top level domain?
Jun 24 01:22:02 <DocScrutinizer05> dafaq, who's fisher and his discriminant? :-o
Jun 24 01:22:08 <RiD> I can't read that text, my whole vision is getting blurry.
Jun 24 01:22:10 <merlin1991> ~wiki tld
Jun 24 01:22:14 <infobot> At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tld (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{redirect|TLD}} {{Redirect|TLDN|Temporary Location Directory Number|Mobile Station Roaming Number}} A 'top-level domain' (TLD) is one of the domains at the highest level in the hierarchical Domain Name System of the Internet.{{cite web | url=http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1591 | title=Domain Name System Structure and Delegation | accessdate=2011-02-07 | last=Postel | first = Jon | ...
Jun 24 01:22:24 <merlin1991> hah :)
Jun 24 01:22:39 * DocScrutinizer05 waves at RiD
Jun 24 01:22:43 <Estel_> damn, almsot two weeks ago I got mail from Farnell, that my RPi was sent
Jun 24 01:22:51 <Estel_> they've also charged my credit card. Still, no delivery
Jun 24 01:23:06 <Estel_> I though rPi was sent via quick delivery provider, like DHL or something like that?
Jun 24 01:23:44 * DocScrutinizer05 cheers at merlin1991
Jun 24 01:24:05 <Estel_> now they FCKD up loging system don't leg me log in - I've tried recovering password, but it requires username. I've tried recovering username, but when I provide my real name and mail (correct, as I've got notification there) it says, that i'm not in client base. WTF?
Jun 24 01:24:46 <Estel_> anyone here received Rpi? What delivery service they've used?
Jun 24 01:24:58 <merlin1991> my rpi is still mia
Jun 24 01:25:12 <DocScrutinizer05> rpi like the berry?
Jun 24 01:25:42 <Estel_> merlin1991, but they haven't send You notification about shipping it already/haven't charged credit card?
Jun 24 01:25:54 <merlin1991> dunno a m8 ordered them
Jun 24 01:26:06 <Estel_> I see
Jun 24 01:26:06 <merlin1991> afaik the charged some time ago but nothing else ever happened
Jun 24 01:26:18 <Estel_> well, good way of selling things :P
Jun 24 01:26:33 <DocScrutinizer05> is that just me or is the slivo already kicking in? ;-D
Jun 24 01:27:06 <DocScrutinizer05> aaah finally my wetware parser spit out sth about m8
Jun 24 01:27:16 <merlin1991> hehe
Jun 24 01:27:34 <Estel_> I wonder if Pi is going to be available in larger quantities, whenever
Jun 24 01:27:41 <DocScrutinizer05> ~m8
Jun 24 01:27:48 <DocScrutinizer05> hah!
Jun 24 01:27:53 <DocScrutinizer05> ~wtf m8
Jun 24 01:27:55 <infobot> Gee...  I don't know what m8 means... 
Jun 24 01:27:56 <merlin1991> I guess we have to tell her about that one :)
Jun 24 01:28:03 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah
Jun 24 01:28:04 <Estel_> I ordered this one for personal use - ED via miniHDMI in different resolutions, for outside screen...
Jun 24 01:28:18 <Estel_> But I also liekd to investigate turning it into mediabox, and maybe even buying more and selling mediaboxes
Jun 24 01:28:19 <DocScrutinizer05> ~m8 is mate
Jun 24 01:28:19 * infobot throws a AN/M-8 smoke grenade at is mate
Jun 24 01:28:29 <Estel_> haha
Jun 24 01:28:32 <DocScrutinizer05> dang wut?
Jun 24 01:28:45 <DocScrutinizer05> LOL
Jun 24 01:28:54 <merlin1991> Estel_: if you're going for a media box look into openelec
Jun 24 01:29:07 <merlin1991> they have a rpi build
Jun 24 01:29:25 <Estel_> thanks, looks good.
Jun 24 01:29:56 <DocScrutinizer05> aaah, now the convo starts to make even more sense ;-)
Jun 24 01:30:06 <Estel_> ~AK47
Jun 24 01:30:17 <Estel_> ~AK47 DocScrutinizer
Jun 24 01:30:25 <merlin1991> DocScrutinizer05: had *some* slivo way before I came on here, so if anything my text output is rubbish ever since ;)
Jun 24 01:31:05 <DocScrutinizer05> nah, I simply got confused by some parts missing, so I lost the context
Jun 24 01:31:07 <Estel_> ~assasinate Farnell
Jun 24 01:31:16 <Estel_> ~murder farnell
Jun 24 01:31:25 <Estel_> ah, she doesn't liksten to me anymore ;)
Jun 24 01:31:42 <Estel_> thanks to some egomaniac ;D
Jun 24 01:32:07 <Estel_> BTW, I wonder if it's just delivery overdue, or...
Jun 24 01:35:52 <M4rtinK> regarding the Rpi as a media centre - note that it currently doesn't do MPEG-2 due to licensing issues
Jun 24 01:36:06 <merlin1991> Estel_: I think it's part of their business plan
Jun 24 01:36:11 <Estel_> currently? i.e. it did it before, or will do later?
Jun 24 01:36:13 <merlin1991> M4rtinK: it does a few others aswell
Jun 24 01:36:29 <merlin1991> Also, it does anything you want it to on cpu ;)
Jun 24 01:36:34 <merlin1991> though that is quite slow
Jun 24 01:36:51 <Estel_> mpeg-2 isn;t used for DVDs?
Jun 24 01:37:01 <M4rtinK> DVDs and DVB-T
Jun 24 01:37:17 <Estel_> DVB-T not everywhere, most countries use MPEG-4
Jun 24 01:37:21 <M4rtinK> andy maybe DivX/X-Vid and similar ?
Jun 24 01:37:23 <Estel_> only germany and some others incorporate mpeg-2
Jun 24 01:37:38 <Estel_> IIRc, xvid and divx is other cup of tea
Jun 24 01:37:41 <Estel_> but I may be wrong
Jun 24 01:37:51 <Estel_> anyway, what about those licensing issue?
Jun 24 01:37:55 * Estel_ is going to read rPi page
Jun 24 01:38:50 <merlin1991> Estel_: the software to offload the decoding to the gpu is closed
Jun 24 01:38:51 <merlin1991> and gay
Jun 24 01:39:04 <Estel_> yea, was aware of that...
Jun 24 01:39:15 <M4rtinK> there is the discussion about it: http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3538&sid=e401489f9fb1116993f4742f36c00224
Jun 24 01:39:19 <Estel_> but mpeg-2, from all standards?
Jun 24 01:39:23 <Estel_> thanks
Jun 24 01:39:44 <merlin1991> the backend is openmax
Jun 24 01:39:45 <M4rtinK> basically, it would cost some 2 dolars more per unit
Jun 24 01:39:50 <merlin1991> why exactly has it "open" in the name?
Jun 24 01:40:02 <M4rtinK> like the Open Group ? :)
Jun 24 01:40:15 <merlin1991> M4rtinK: also: Two licensed codecs will be provided at launch, MPEG4 and h.264
Jun 24 01:40:16 <M4rtinK> or Open Handset Alliance ? :)
Jun 24 01:40:45 <M4rtinK> yeah, IMHO they paid the licence for MPEG-4 and h.264
Jun 24 01:40:51 <M4rtinK> but not MPEG-2
Jun 24 01:41:05 <merlin1991> oh I mixed up does and doesn't
Jun 24 01:41:50 <M4rtinK> the hardware is certainly capable
Jun 24 01:42:04 <M4rtinK> but there are no drivers :)
Jun 24 01:42:18 <M4rtinK> well, for MPEG-2
Jun 24 01:42:49 <M4rtinK> still, I'm quite optimistic in this one
Jun 24 01:42:52 <DocScrutinizer05> merlin1991: h.264 is licenced?
Jun 24 01:42:57 <merlin1991> yea
Jun 24 01:43:03 <DocScrutinizer05> o.O
Jun 24 01:43:06 <merlin1991> they claim high profile decode runs fine
Jun 24 01:43:13 <merlin1991> the famous 1080p line
Jun 24 01:43:15 <M4rtinK> there are just too many developers with the boards in their hands :)
Jun 24 01:44:21 <cehteh> Doc you dont have a pi yet? :)
Jun 24 01:44:27 <DocScrutinizer05> nah
Jun 24 01:44:33 <cehteh> hah :) i do
Jun 24 01:44:40 <DocScrutinizer05> not even pondered to get one
Jun 24 01:44:46 <M4rtinK> I don't have one either (yet)
Jun 24 01:44:57 <DocScrutinizer05> don't make me feel envy
Jun 24 01:45:03 <cehteh> well i didnt used mine past week .. too busy
Jun 24 01:45:24 <M4rtinK> but I should get a 3D printed case for it soon from a friend :)
Jun 24 01:45:33 <DocScrutinizer05> what for do you all (plan to) use it?
Jun 24 01:46:14 <cehteh> not finally settled .. have to much ideas but only one device :P
Jun 24 01:46:23 <DocScrutinizer05> hehe
Jun 24 01:46:34 <cehteh> this first one is for experimenting and testing
Jun 24 01:46:36 <DocScrutinizer05> cehteh: hi, btw :)
Jun 24 01:47:17 <M4rtinK> probably a media box & GPIO fun
Jun 24 01:47:21 <cehteh> and will either end as kitchen computer, mediaplayer or some other home appliance (web-controllable sockets or so)
Jun 24 01:47:40 <cehteh> i'll bring mine to froscon
Jun 24 01:48:05 <cehteh> also planned to integrate it in my monitor but it cant do its full resolution (which is slightly out of spec)
Jun 24 01:48:12 <cehteh> 2048x1152
Jun 24 01:48:42 <cehteh> or autonomous flying qadcopter. .. whatever there are many ideas :)
Jun 24 01:50:29 <cehteh> this binary blobs suck .. but the rest is way freeer .. build mostly up to date kernels, no (much) ugly patches, zram performs well for example
Jun 24 01:50:49 <cehteh> unlinke the n900 where nokia patched the mm code 
Jun 24 01:51:21 <Estel_> heh, after reading this whole bullshit...
Jun 24 01:51:30 <Estel_> (i.e. forum rPi about mpeg-2)
Jun 24 01:51:47 <cehteh> yes that sux
Jun 24 01:51:49 <Estel_> I really doubt they haven't go with something that use hardware Theora decoding ;)
Jun 24 01:52:09 <Estel_> heck, I even sue theora in my N900, I don't care that it's running on CPU only
Jun 24 01:52:14 <Estel_> BTw
Jun 24 01:52:22 <cehteh> dunno, but there is a so big community they may reverse engineer the graphics core :P 
Jun 24 01:52:28 <Estel_> "If Yuo decode mpeg-2 to mpeg-4, Yuo should pay license fee" was my best part
Jun 24 01:52:36 <cehteh> or broadcom may become convinced to release its specs
Jun 24 01:52:36 <Estel_> wa sbets part*
Jun 24 01:52:58 <Estel_> it's like "if You're getting rid of windows and installing linux, You should pay to redmond"
Jun 24 01:52:59 <cehteh> there is a completely unused DSP on the rpi too
Jun 24 01:53:02 <Estel_> lol
Jun 24 01:53:08 <RST38h> hw theora is like hw skype
Jun 24 01:53:11 <Estel_> and only one camera interface connected ;0
Jun 24 01:53:22 <Estel_> RST38h, what do you mean exactly?
Jun 24 01:53:36 <cehteh> they just hunted for a cheap arm .. sadly its just the stepchild of that SOC :)
Jun 24 01:53:48 <RST38h> the format is so messed up by cool eleet software people that doing it in hw is problematic
Jun 24 01:54:09 <Estel_> with the difference, that Theora is open and well documented, while Skyp is equally opposite
Jun 24 01:54:24 <Estel_> but overall, i get the point
Jun 24 01:54:38 <RST38h> does not matter how well it is documented, unfortunately
Jun 24 01:54:47 <Estel_> it
Jun 24 01:54:52 <Estel_> it's messe dup so much?
Jun 24 01:54:56 <RST38h> what matters is whether they use snippets of their own C code in the format description document
Jun 24 01:55:00 <Estel_> oh damn, i think i'm tired
Jun 24 01:55:06 <Estel_> I mean "It's messed up *so* much?"
Jun 24 01:55:07 <RST38h> like Google does
Jun 24 01:55:42 <cehteh> n8
Jun 24 01:55:44 <RST38h> If you cannot describe format without resorting to your particular source code, this means your "standard" is messed up
Jun 24 01:56:40 <Estel_> so, AIUI, hardware decoding is hard because it would require work = money paid for programmers, not that it's undoable anyway?
Jun 24 01:57:18 <Estel_> i.e. "standard" ahrd to follow?
Jun 24 01:57:23 <Estel_> damn, hard
Jun 24 01:57:23 <RST38h> Sorry, but I am going to leave it to you to figure out why implementing arbitrary C source code in hardware is hard
Jun 24 01:57:35 <RST38h> Make it your homework for today, ok?
Jun 24 01:57:48 <Estel_> sure, I admit that I'm not specialist in this :)
Jun 24 01:58:13 <Estel_> instead, I wouldn't ask, so I'll google for it with pleasure.
Jun 24 01:59:49 <DocScrutinizer05> cehteh: n8
Jun 24 02:01:52 <Estel_> o fuck, gcompris on Pi!
Jun 24 02:01:57 <Estel_> Why i haven't though about that
Jun 24 02:02:12 <Estel_> well, i know who will occupy my Pi when not used for HDMI out :)
Jun 24 02:02:52 <Estel_> in fact, I'm starting to regret that we can't buy two, for now. Sounds like first computer for my son ;)
Jun 24 02:07:27 <Sc0rpius> two ?
Jun 24 02:41:09 <Estel_> Sc0rpius, yea
Jun 24 02:41:24 <Estel_> one for my 3 years old Son, and one for me. Both to play with, but in different areas ;)
Jun 24 02:42:00 <Estel_> he is already using my N900 quite much, and - to say at least - dissapointed, when I have to do something on n900 at the same time ;)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jun 24 02:59:58 2012