**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jul 20 02:59:59 2012 Jul 20 03:37:28 hi Jul 20 03:45:38 hi Jul 20 04:20:56 isn't beep beep beep call waiting? Jul 20 04:34:53 n900 forwards calls after 20seconds even though i change the setting it does not stay Jul 20 04:43:50 operator side Jul 20 05:18:25 or starhash-enabler Jul 20 05:19:00 and do it via suggested scc Jul 20 05:21:06 at least I for one feel like I know what's really going on when I enter stuf like *#61# and get a cleartext answer from operator Jul 20 05:40:31 hm, is there a way to not make the background shrink when opening the dashboard or the menu, in hildon-desktop? Jul 20 05:46:44 hm, apparently it's a parameter in transitions.ini Jul 20 05:50:16 starhash enabler?? Jul 20 05:52:17 starhash enabler!!!! Jul 20 07:22:14 hey zeq Jul 20 07:23:05 ruskie, did you repackaged newer xmms2? Jul 20 07:35:12 ZogG_N950, nope Jul 20 07:41:42 vi_: does the fullscreen toggle work for every program correctly? Jul 20 07:49:14 ruskie: do you still have dst and tar.gz to package? i want to build it for harmattan on COBS Jul 20 07:49:45 ZogG_laptop, erm... no clue Jul 20 07:50:05 check the repo... though not sure if I have it running atm Jul 20 07:52:58 ruskie: can you check later on you PC as i don't want to scre with dependencies Jul 20 07:52:59 ZogG_laptop, https://repo.codemages.net/source/ Jul 20 07:53:08 ZogG_laptop, if stuff is there Jul 20 07:53:32 ruskie: good =) gonna try to build it Jul 20 07:56:51 kerio: It depends on how the program is made. Generally it does though. It simply removes window decorations and resizes the window. Jul 20 07:57:19 kerio: It can have wierd effects if you use it on pop down menues. Jul 20 07:57:41 the status menu or camracover launcher for example. Jul 20 07:58:10 It should also be noted that you shoud change the shortcut from ctrl+space to ctrl+enter. Jul 20 07:58:35 kerio: ctrl+space is in fact a builtin hildon shortcut for changing keyboard layouts. Jul 20 07:58:44 (I did not know this when I wrote that). Jul 20 08:06:45 ruskie: hmm, tried to build 0.8 there, got a lot of unresolved dependencies Jul 20 08:08:55 vi_: btw forgot to mention irc chatter, nice one to have on n950 Jul 20 08:45:25 vi_: i don't really care about changing the dictionary Jul 20 08:46:40 or do you mean that both happen at the same time? Jul 20 08:48:26 kerio: It can change the keyboard layout. Jul 20 08:48:43 kerio: Suddenly none of your remaps will work. Jul 20 08:49:19 kerio: and you will go WTF??? and spend hours trying to figure out WHY THE F* your keys don't work even though you loaded the right keymap 50 times. Jul 20 08:49:24 vi_: changing the kbd layout would be neat Jul 20 08:49:31 you can have *two* layout Jul 20 08:49:41 s Jul 20 08:49:43 kerio: In short, don't use ctrl+space for xbindkeys shortcuts. Jul 20 08:49:54 anyway, how do you get it to change layout? :( Jul 20 08:49:58 kerio: Yes, 2 layouts. Jul 20 08:50:05 i can only change the dictionary Jul 20 08:50:24 kerio: I am talking about xkb not the 'dictionary'. Jul 20 08:50:46 yeah but my xkb layout stays the same :( Jul 20 08:50:53 kerio: oh wait, ctrl+space changes dictionary for you? Jul 20 08:51:01 yeah Jul 20 08:51:07 kerio: well fck knows why. Jul 20 08:51:26 i'm on the european layout Jul 20 08:51:30 er Jul 20 08:51:45 on the global software i mean Jul 20 08:54:25 anyway Jul 20 08:54:25 why the need for f6 then? Jul 20 09:18:26 kerio: why the need for F6? Jul 20 09:18:37 Have you got a 12 hour memory span? Jul 20 09:19:05 If you fullscreen xterm, there is no button to Un-fullscreen xterm. Jul 20 09:19:22 F6 brings up the soft menu with the fullscreen button on it. Jul 20 09:40:36 vi_: can't you use ctrl+enter for both? Jul 20 09:41:30 kerio: Fullscreen AND F6? Sure, however consider how other programs you may want to fullscreen will react to F6. Jul 20 09:42:19 no, i mean Jul 20 09:42:19 use the fullscreen command for xterm Jul 20 09:43:02 does it work correctly or is osso-xterm a fickle bitch like most of the native maemo programs Jul 20 09:45:16 Kerio it works fine, however the row of buttons still appears at the bottom. Jul 20 09:45:29 fullscreen=toggle fullscreen Jul 20 09:45:40 F6=toggle row of softbuttons Jul 20 09:45:57 osso-xterm sucks balls anyway. Jul 20 09:46:14 The only nice feature of it is the adjust font size with volume keys. Jul 20 09:46:46 Unfortunatley the way maemo deals with fonts is fucking broken so things like normal xterm do not work wrt to changing fonts. Jul 20 09:47:16 Which is an epic pain in the balls as osso-xterm does not support middle click pasting. Jul 20 09:47:19 vi_: madness Jul 20 09:49:00 F6 toggles fullscreen -without- disabling the softbuttons for me :c Jul 20 09:52:29 oh i see Jul 20 09:52:56 setting the toolbar to false makes F6 enable/disable both Jul 20 11:09:34 vi_: is osso-xterm opensource? Jul 20 11:10:20 zeq: I think so. Jul 20 11:11:00 it shouldn't be hard to put middle-button paste functionality in Jul 20 11:11:17 it would be nice on fremantle if it supported portrait rotation too IMHO Jul 20 11:11:34 (especially since it works fine when forced) Jul 20 11:11:59 Am I the only one who thinks that would be useful? Jul 20 11:13:50 I can't remember how I fixed libstdc++ when I built the toolchains! Jul 20 11:13:55 :( Jul 20 11:21:40 I really should take notes sometimes Jul 20 11:23:31 hi all Jul 20 11:26:14 jonwil, hi Jul 20 11:26:31 jonwil: hi Jul 20 11:26:37 jonwil, can you disassemble binary /usr/bin/app-detect ? Jul 20 11:26:54 size is 9988bytes Jul 20 11:27:20 what does it do? Jul 20 11:27:20 objdump is not resolving symbols :-( Jul 20 11:27:30 and what do you want to know about it? Jul 20 11:27:54 jonwil, see http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1238874&postcount=28 Jul 20 11:28:10 I want to know how app-detect decide to turn off jackbias Jul 20 11:29:06 or other question, do you know if it is possible to find out which application sending specific dbus signal? Jul 20 11:29:13 (from dbus-monitor) Jul 20 11:29:38 ok, app-detect does not make any dbus calls at all Jul 20 11:29:51 the only things it imports are some X calls and some libc calls Jul 20 11:30:12 it does however make some socket calls Jul 20 11:30:49 jonwil, hm... so then some other application sending that dbus signal... Jul 20 11:30:56 which dbus signal is it? Jul 20 11:31:10 give me the name and I can find it Jul 20 11:31:30 look at post: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1238844&postcount=27 Jul 20 11:31:38 it is some dict structure Jul 20 11:31:56 "jackbias" Jul 20 11:32:11 I need to know which app send "jackbias" "off" Jul 20 11:32:40 ok, going to grep my local dump of the N900 firmware for that string Jul 20 11:33:28 jonwil, or if you have wired jack handsfree (that which comes with n900 box) you can try it yourself Jul 20 11:34:14 when you plug or unplug it, some app send that dbus signal (to alsaped) and alsaped set alsa switches Jul 20 11:34:57 but if there is active phone call, then some app send dbus signal jackbias *on* (when handsfree is plugged) Jul 20 11:35:29 and I want to know why in active phone call is jackbias *on* and why in other situation off Jul 20 11:35:47 ok, the string is referenced in 3 files Jul 20 11:35:51 alsaped.conf Jul 20 11:36:00 policy.dresc Jul 20 11:36:00 and then I want to create proper solution how to enable jackbias on for other applications then phone call Jul 20 11:36:06 policy.plc Jul 20 11:36:25 ok Jul 20 11:36:52 the policy.* filers come from policy-settings-rx51 Jul 20 11:36:54 files Jul 20 11:37:08 I have bad feelings, that "app-detect" decide for jackbias on and off Jul 20 11:37:22 strings on app-detect show "rtcom-call-ui" "on" "off" Jul 20 11:37:35 and rtcom-call-ui is phone call application... Jul 20 11:37:55 I know file alsaped.conf Jul 20 11:38:09 it is configuration for alsaped Jul 20 11:38:23 here is written what will happend if somebody send that dbus signal Jul 20 11:38:40 so here is rule what to do if somebody send jackbias off Jul 20 11:39:24 also in app-detect is string "call UI window class" Jul 20 11:40:21 jonwil, you written that app-detect make some sockets Jul 20 11:40:38 app-detect binary comes from policy-application-detector Jul 20 11:40:44 can you dump what it listen/sent? Jul 20 11:40:49 yes, I know thi Jul 20 11:40:51 s Jul 20 11:41:23 read http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_root_pr1-2_armel/policy-application-detector/0.0.6+0m5/ Jul 20 11:41:30 the description of the package answers the question Jul 20 11:41:36 it says "Changes are comminated to ohmd using UDP over 127.0.0.1" Jul 20 11:41:55 ok, ohmd are opened Jul 20 11:42:08 I will try to find what ohmd is receiving... Jul 20 11:42:26 its probably a closed-source plugin for ohmd that does the work Jul 20 11:42:29 jonwil, can you disassemble that binary app-detect and upload it to pastebin? Jul 20 11:42:56 it doesn't have any symbols on its functions, just on the imports Jul 20 11:43:08 ohm and all its plugins are now opensource, look https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages Jul 20 11:43:26 I found git commits which are for fremantle version Jul 20 11:45:32 aha, I think the policy.dresc and policy.plc files are compiled Prolog code Jul 20 11:45:33 one or both Jul 20 11:45:54 package policy-settings-rx51 has a dependency on swi-prolog-lib-core Jul 20 11:45:55 yes, code for SWI prolog :-) Jul 20 11:46:24 we need to find any open version of the same prolog code (either Maemo or MeeGo) Jul 20 11:46:51 swi prolog code can be disassembled Jul 20 11:46:55 back to text Jul 20 11:47:13 ok, in that case disassemble the code and it should show you how it deals with the jack stuff Jul 20 11:47:44 problem is that I do not know how to disassembly it... Jul 20 11:48:13 nor do I Jul 20 11:48:46 Pali: I thought jack bias on/off is set by HAL policy file...? Jul 20 11:48:48 I tried it load it into my swi prolog on notebook, but it show message: Jul 20 11:48:49 Could not open resource database "policy-settings-rx51/usr/share/policy/rules/rx51/policy.plc": Inappropriate ioctl for device] Jul 20 11:49:06 seems that arm compiled prolog code cannot be loaded on x86 Jul 20 11:49:19 vi_, no by alsaped Jul 20 11:49:34 no hal policy but dres policy Jul 20 11:49:53 Pali: I assume you have looked at the post install script in 'headset enabler'? Jul 20 11:50:14 yes Jul 20 11:50:17 ok Jul 20 11:50:22 it hack alsaped config file Jul 20 11:50:23 ...proceed Jul 20 11:50:41 vi_, I'm trying to find proper solution, no hacking system files... Jul 20 11:51:01 and sometimes it does not worked that solution (by headset enabler) Jul 20 11:51:13 Pali: I noticed. Jul 20 11:52:19 can anybody figure out how I managed to fix libstdc++.so to statically link properly? Jul 20 11:52:55 it's only 1/4 of the size compared to the working version Jul 20 11:53:22 http://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/doc_for?object=section(4,'2.10.2.3',swi('/doc/Manual/compilation.html')) Jul 20 11:53:34 Pali: you are not totally distracted by your new n950 yet? Jul 20 11:53:37 seems that prolog code is platform independet Jul 20 11:54:01 no toolchain gurus here then? :) Jul 20 11:54:04 [2012-07-20 13:35:28] and I want to know why in active phone call is jackbias *on* and why in other situation off Jul 20 11:54:17 because in phonecall mic is supposed to work Jul 20 11:54:45 probably somewhere you'll find policy headset and policy headphone Jul 20 11:54:48 jackbias is switch to enable headset button Jul 20 11:55:10 somebody from nokia said that when is enabled then battery is quickly drained Jul 20 11:55:12 yes, and button does what? It simply shortens mic Jul 20 11:55:23 10k mic pulldown. Jul 20 11:55:27 meh, it draws like 3mA Jul 20 11:55:36 I tested and no battery drain :D Jul 20 11:56:14 DocScrutinizer05: Unless you have a knockoff chinese headset like I thought I would try. Opened it up to find they had missed out the jack bias resistor. Jul 20 11:56:28 Imma like, 'wat da..' Jul 20 11:56:45 DocScrutinizer05, with that line I mean: want to know which app decide to turn off/on jackbias and how this app decide... Jul 20 11:56:55 Nokia's 'own' wired audio spec says sth like "2V via 2kR, and mic shall have 500R to 2kR" Jul 20 11:57:55 <1mA Jul 20 11:58:01 :nod: Jul 20 11:58:17 fuckit, the notificationr led uses more. Jul 20 11:58:27 but there's loss on some components maybe Jul 20 11:58:46 The ALS sensor uses more! Jul 20 11:58:52 anyway, bat drain is negligible Jul 20 11:59:05 broadcast: is there some prolog hacker? Jul 20 11:59:32 eeeeew prolog Jul 20 11:59:33 Pali: Sorry, I am a no-skill gnu-b Jul 20 11:59:55 g-nub makes you sound like a rapper Jul 20 12:02:37 idiot's OT question: how would I start a KDE desktop window from a remote ubuntu on my winXP cygwin? Jul 20 12:02:56 (alternative: PuTTY) Jul 20 12:03:32 i cant process words like cygwin Jul 20 12:03:35 i refuse, sorry Jul 20 12:05:40 I so far managed to start "X" on windoze, with xterm. in xterm log in to ubuntu via ssh -XY. start xeyes or whatever on ubuntu machine with window in win-"X" Jul 20 12:06:13 however that's an unbearable windows manager in that "X" Jul 20 12:06:35 and no desktop at all Jul 20 12:07:44 you fire up xterm Jul 20 12:07:54 then start all your programs with a & Jul 20 12:07:57 job done Jul 20 12:08:01 unbearable win-mngr like "WTF?! how do I close that xeyes?" Jul 20 12:08:15 killall xeyes Jul 20 12:08:15 vi_: ^^^ Jul 20 12:08:21 meh Jul 20 12:08:42 aaah, wait a second. Jul 20 12:08:49 ok, if we can find a way to decompile the prolog we might be able to go further with this Jul 20 12:08:50 this thing is unbearable with more than 2 windows Jul 20 12:08:52 otherwise I am out of ideas Jul 20 12:08:52 What are you using for your xserver? Jul 20 12:09:05 cygwin Jul 20 12:09:20 DocScrutinizer05: There is a windows program called xming. Jul 20 12:09:49 cygwin xterm: startx Jul 20 12:10:13 opens some shit that reminds me on fvwm or whaever Jul 20 12:11:01 xming lets you start programs either in individual windows or put your xserver into its own window. Jul 20 12:11:46 <_shadowx> DocScrutinizer, do you have xinitrc ? Jul 20 12:12:24 _shadowx: on windows? NFC Jul 20 12:12:36 probably not Jul 20 12:13:02 vi_: I want a KDE desktop Jul 20 12:13:05 in a window Jul 20 12:13:13 <_shadowx> xinitrc is used to choose your windows manager. its related to X not to the OS itself. Jul 20 12:13:31 DocScrutinizer05: well - you could just use putty to forward your X along with setting sshd_config to allow X forwarding as well Jul 20 12:13:36 just that there's no real X on windows Jul 20 12:14:20 jabis: X forwarding already works Jul 20 12:14:42 hmmm, I think the prolog policy.plc file is output from some sort of just-in-time compiler Jul 20 12:14:46 which is why its specific to ARM Jul 20 12:14:48 and why its fast Jul 20 12:14:59 just for single programs like xterm, xeyes whatever, and all are in this unbearably cygwin fvwm remake Jul 20 12:15:08 DocScrutinizer05: Yes there is. It is called xming. Jul 20 12:15:31 DocScrutinizer05: You start a local Xserver. Jul 20 12:15:37 DocScrutinizer05: xorg-x11-base? Jul 20 12:15:58 On your doze box. Jul 20 12:16:10 vi_: I know! Jul 20 12:16:31 [2012-07-20 14:14:20] jabis: X forwarding already works just for single programs like xterm, xeyes whatever, and all are in this unbearably cygwin fvwm remake Jul 20 12:16:52 [2012-07-20 14:05:40] I so far managed to start "X" on windoze, with xterm. in xterm log in to ubuntu via ssh -XY. start xeyes or whatever on ubuntu machine with window in win-"X" Jul 20 12:17:30 DocScrutinizer05: startkde would fire kdm and gnome-session gdm Jul 20 12:17:51 what I'm missing is which program to start to get a proper KDE desktop in that window, instead of xeyes or xterm Jul 20 12:18:05 jabis: thanks :-D Jul 20 12:18:26 jabis: that's probably the answer to my question Jul 20 12:18:46 ye - gdm and kdm would fail for obvious reasons :) Jul 20 12:19:43 (login) so you just start a session of the window manager instead Jul 20 12:19:52 :nod: Jul 20 12:22:21 <_shadowx> normaly ~/.xinitrc is doing this. X calls it and in it you have 'exec kdestart' or whatever WM you'll use. Jul 20 12:22:57 just I've not seen any .xinitrc on cygwin Jul 20 12:23:49 though there must be something like that, but for the 3 *local* cygwin xterms that pop up Jul 20 12:24:58 I still wonder if the whole kwin or whatever will run *inside* a window of local cygwin "X" Jul 20 12:25:21 well, probably it should Jul 20 12:25:58 Xkcd.com seems relevant to this discission- Jul 20 12:26:12 hi SpeedEvil:-D Jul 20 12:26:23 (14:16:23) (DocScrutinizer05) [2012-07-20 14:05:40] I so far managed to start "X" on windoze, with xterm. in xterm log in to ubuntu via ssh -XY. start xeyes or whatever on ubuntu machine with window in win-"X" Jul 20 12:26:27 Hey Jul 20 12:26:45 isn't Xming a better idea if you want proper X on windows? Jul 20 12:26:45 for things like xforwarding Jul 20 12:26:54 nfc Jul 20 12:27:15 if it was my way, I'd not even touch that windows stuff Jul 20 12:27:25 i've used it, it has worked perfectly for me Jul 20 12:27:33 <_shadowx> Note: If you wish to customize the X clients started when the X server starts, you can do so using a ~/.startxwinrc script. Jul 20 12:27:48 <_shadowx> ^^ do $HOME/.startxwinrc == ~/.xinirc Jul 20 12:28:00 FredrIQ: I will search for it in our repository of acceptable software Jul 20 12:29:07 DocScrutinizer05: dunno how you instantiate the x, but you could try copying the cygwin.bat > X.bat and change the bash line to: bash --login -c X -multiwindow - dunno whether it makes a difference Jul 20 12:29:30 bash line?? Jul 20 12:29:39 in cygwin.bat Jul 20 12:29:51 duh, actually there's a bash, yes Jul 20 12:30:09 it should do a something like bash -i blablabla Jul 20 12:30:54 I'll look into what startx in cygwin does Jul 20 12:31:16 for now it starts tow local xterms and a login console Jul 20 12:31:22 two* Jul 20 12:36:32 FIQ: There is the right way, the wrong way and the DocScrutinizer05 way. The DocScrutinizer05 way being like the right way, but even more correct. Jul 20 12:36:58 s/correct/principled Jul 20 12:37:07 ok Jul 20 12:37:50 o.O ??? Jul 20 12:37:50 ok, so unless we can decompile the policy.plc file, we arent going to be able to find out more about the jack stuff Jul 20 12:41:45 pali: ping Jul 20 12:46:53 How do I download a few GB of maps to my n900 such that I don't need an internet connection for mapping? And: which application should I use? Jul 20 12:46:58 vi_: could you enlighten me about the reference of your last post? Jul 20 12:49:18 fasta: depending on your mapping app. Jul 20 12:49:36 marble for example has download option built in iirc Jul 20 12:50:12 for ovi maps there've been instructions on tmo some years ago Jul 20 12:51:50 fasta: way more interesting: marble comes with onboard routing Jul 20 12:52:21 aka offline routing, aka monav Jul 20 12:54:39 DocScrutinizer05: It is a joke DocScrutinizer05 Jul 20 12:55:02 poking fun at your insistance that things should be done in the absolute best way. Jul 20 12:55:29 well, no problem with the joke ;-) I just grepped my 20klines backscroll for last time FIQ said something -- nada Jul 20 12:55:49 DocScrutinizer05: and where is the download whole planet button? Jul 20 12:55:57 DocScrutinizer05: for marble. Jul 20 12:56:07 umm, I think you can't Jul 20 12:56:10 DocScrutinizer: I rarely say anything Jul 20 12:56:10 I read somewhere it was only 4GB or so. Jul 20 12:56:14 only countries one by one Jul 20 12:56:37 DocScrutinizer05: where does it get the maps? Jul 20 12:56:46 depends on number of zoom levels you want to download Jul 20 12:56:56 DocScrutinizer05: i.e. who has to pull the plug before it stops working? Jul 20 12:56:58 openstreetmap Jul 20 12:57:28 though iirc in marble you can choose from different sources Jul 20 13:00:00 FIQ: no problem with that either. But why did vi_ highlight you then? Jul 20 13:00:20 My altnick is FredrIQ Jul 20 13:00:37 aaah, nickchange, that might explain it Jul 20 13:00:50 (14:26:00) (FredrIQ) isn't Xming a better idea if you want proper X on windows? Jul 20 13:00:52 I used mappero and it seems to be great, the only wish I had is that it would have a better display for "hey, I dont have that tile locally and you told me not to download any tiles from the internet" Jul 20 13:00:52 (14:26:06) (FredrIQ) for things like xforwarding Jul 20 13:00:52 (14:26:47) (FredrIQ) i've used it, it has worked perfectly for me Jul 20 13:00:55 etc Jul 20 13:01:45 DocScrutinizer05: are you involved in the new Jolla (or something like that) project? Jul 20 13:02:04 not exactly (yet?) Jul 20 13:03:14 the streetnames are for reading with a magnifier glass Jul 20 13:04:15 FIQ: I might not be allowed to install Xming Jul 20 13:04:36 ok Jul 20 13:06:36 will look for it in our pool of cerified software Jul 20 13:09:00 Does the camera stop when there is an incoming call? Jul 20 13:09:20 (btw one of the reasons i'd prefer to do as much as possible on a proper linux system. If i'm missing anything there, I may download the source and build it on my own) Jul 20 13:10:35 fasta: probably Jul 20 13:10:47 DocScrutinizer05: why? Jul 20 13:11:02 errrr, good question ;-) Jul 20 13:11:30 When I saw a Samsung Galaxy S2 do that, I was like: wtf? Jul 20 13:11:45 maybe because it's hard to focus on your target while holding the phone to your ear? Jul 20 13:12:12 DocScrutinizer05: I am merely talking about an incoming call. Not even answering it. Jul 20 13:12:39 yeah, I see your point Jul 20 13:13:23 I'd guess cpu load is another good reason to not do both concurrently Jul 20 13:14:23 and the sheer fact that camera goes into standby mode whenever it loses focus is the pragmatic reason why I think it does stop Jul 20 13:15:24 since dialer pops up on inbound calls Jul 20 13:16:11 dunno what nikocam does Jul 20 13:16:55 quite probably the same Jul 20 13:17:46 jonwil, see http://pastebin.com/vGMnWpMi Jul 20 13:17:59 policy-settings-rx51/usr/share/policy/rules/rx51/policy.plc is compiled from files ^^^ Jul 20 13:18:38 yeah I saw that myself Jul 20 13:18:44 jonwil, some open source meego files: https://meego.gitorious.org/maemo-multimedia/policy-settings-basic/trees/n900/basic/policy Jul 20 13:18:48 yes I saw those too Jul 20 13:18:56 posted in the forum about that Jul 20 13:19:12 The meego stuff doesn't have the jack stuff Jul 20 13:20:38 I'm trying to find way how to load that policy.plc file into swi prolog... Jul 20 13:20:49 I haven't found a way to do it Jul 20 13:21:40 DocScrutinizer05: why is cpu utilization an issue? can't the n900 handle a call and the camera? Jul 20 13:21:59 PA on a call is rather cpu heavy Jul 20 13:22:03 jonwil, that state prolog file can be created in swi prolog by predicate: qsave_program(+File, +Options) Jul 20 13:22:25 we need to find predicate which load state file stored by qsave_program Jul 20 13:26:34 dont know how that can be done Jul 20 13:29:48 vi_: actually I found out that ctrl+space doesn't really switch layouts on the N900, there isn't such mechanism (only one kb layout is active) Jul 20 13:30:50 The non latin layouts have 8(!) levels where the first 4 are latin and the other 4 e.g. greek, russian etc Jul 20 13:31:35 ctrl+space switches active levels from 1-4 to 5-8 Jul 20 13:32:13 unlike the N950 ctrl+shift which actually switches layouts Jul 20 13:35:16 "This system may only distributed using the GNU General Public License" Jul 20 13:35:17 so in theory with setxkbmap and two 8 level layouts you can switch between 16 levels of keys :) Jul 20 13:35:22 "because the following components contain GPL-ed code:" Jul 20 13:35:35 this is in file policy-settings-rx51/usr/share/policy/rules/rx51/policy.plc Jul 20 13:35:41 jonwil, see ^^^^ Jul 20 13:36:43 ok, in that case someone should ask Nokia to comply with the GPL and share the code :) Jul 20 13:37:16 ah, who will write email? Jul 20 13:37:26 hurry or there won't be anybody left to ask Jul 20 13:37:32 I cannot because my email address is on banlist Jul 20 13:37:42 there will always be lawyers Jul 20 13:38:10 I asked for more source code and from one time, they stopped to answer on my email... Jul 20 13:38:27 jonwil, can you write email? Jul 20 13:38:31 Pali: WTF?! Jul 20 13:38:35 and there is the GPL enforcers, so you can have the FSF Europe deal with it ? Jul 20 13:38:40 actually, wait Jul 20 13:38:49 it seems like that file contains different licenses Jul 20 13:39:13 njsf: pinging Harald Welte is one of my favourite weekend hobbies ;-D Jul 20 13:39:13 http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/enforcing-gpl.html Jul 20 13:39:32 i has a remapped keyboard! ^_^ Jul 20 13:39:51 vi_: ^ Jul 20 13:40:14 actually, http://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/man?predicate=license%2F2 says it may not be GPL after all Jul 20 13:40:29 i.e. it depends on if any code actually calls license(GPL) or if its just code from license.pl Jul 20 13:41:38 kerio: did you find a battery? Jul 20 13:41:57 @?This program may be distributed under any license, provided all@! @;conditions implied by the GNU Lesser General Public License@! @;are satisfied. In particular, this implies the source code@! @>to any modification in SWI-Prolog or one of the used libraries@! must be made available.@! Jul 20 13:42:08 jonwil, read more ^^^ Jul 20 13:42:14 i what? Jul 20 13:42:29 What is a good phone for someone who is not very technical and basically just want to read e-mail 'on the go'? Jul 20 13:42:34 you were asking about bl5j's the other day Jul 20 13:42:44 note that policy-settings-basic for MeeGo says GPL Jul 20 13:42:45 did you buy one? Jul 20 13:43:16 oh right Jul 20 13:43:17 no, not yet Jul 20 13:43:20 but it's a long-term goal Jul 20 13:43:25 possibly a dual scud/japod Jul 20 13:43:40 mugen xl batteries cost a shitton Jul 20 13:44:32 I've got 3 japods and theyre very good value/money, and still available Jul 20 13:47:11 but... scuds are better! Jul 20 13:47:12 :c Jul 20 13:48:42 indeed but I think they aren't so much better to make up for the double price Jul 20 13:49:19 Is there any way to turn off the '1 application installed' message? Jul 20 13:49:40 I prefer a *nix way of interaction: 'shut up until there is a problem'. Jul 20 13:50:20 (and preferably I would use applications/devices with tons of error correcting codes, such that there are no problems) Jul 20 13:50:51 fasta: apt-get install :) Jul 20 13:51:13 qwazix: do you know if someone tried to make a triple battery? Jul 20 13:51:32 qwazix: according to DocScrutinizer05 there are some kinds of additional checks in the normal application. Jul 20 13:52:11 kerio: haven't seen one, no, but how would you fit it in the N900, duct tape? Jul 20 13:52:41 qwazix: sure, why not :D Jul 20 13:52:55 or maybe put the two extra batteries sideways Jul 20 13:53:05 fasta: correct, but this AFAIK helps when installing system packages, not simple apps Jul 20 13:53:15 ok, I am not convinced that this file is actually GPL or LGPL Jul 20 13:53:28 but I dont know the details of swi-prolog licenseing Jul 20 13:53:40 best answer is to contact Nokia and ask for a specific confirmation Jul 20 13:53:50 the .deb file itself has no license file whatsoever Jul 20 13:53:58 kerio: I would have gone with dual batteries long ago if mugen had a lens cover Jul 20 13:54:37 but I hate to have to swipe the lens clean each time I want to take a photo, Jul 20 13:54:44 not to mention scratches Jul 20 13:55:12 (and that cleaning the lens would require removal of the mugen cover) Jul 20 13:55:38 wait, i thought mugen had a lens cover D: Jul 20 13:56:05 qwazix: so do you just swap batteries? Jul 20 13:56:19 powercycling is annoying :c Jul 20 13:56:34 jonwil, now I sent mail to sourcecode.request@nokia.com for source code request Jul 20 13:56:50 but I think that I'm on blacklist Jul 20 13:57:00 jonwil, can you write email too? Jul 20 13:57:54 kerio: I didn't have, idk if they changed the design. I don't mind powercycling but now that my bupbat has gone flat it's a bit annoying because I have to play slotmachine if I don't do the swap magic-trick fast Jul 20 13:57:58 I dont know how to write such emails Jul 20 13:58:04 I always say the wrong things Jul 20 13:58:06 :P Jul 20 13:58:09 s/I/it/ Jul 20 13:58:09 qwazix meant: kerio: it didn't have, idk if they changed the design. I don't mind powercycling but now that my bupbat has gone flat it's a bit annoying because I have to play slotmachine if I don't do the swap magic-trick fast Jul 20 13:59:27 DocScrutinizer05, can you write email for jonwil? Jul 20 13:59:28 meh, not really Jul 20 13:59:36 just ntp and/or launch gpsrecorder Jul 20 13:59:57 Is there some application which will tell me how late it will be at some location on the planet given some other location and time at some other place on the planet? Jul 20 14:00:07 and I like better having one or two spare batteries in the other pocket than have a giant bulge Jul 20 14:00:37 ok, now that I found bits needed to allow replacement (e.g. in CSSU) of WiFi bits, what should I reverse engineer next? :P Jul 20 14:00:52 qwazix: anyway, japods are 1370mAh, scud blue dreams are 1530 Jul 20 14:01:09 kerio: good idea, my network used to have auto time but this doesn't seem to work anymore Jul 20 14:02:35 all scud blue dreams are 1530? I read there were batches with lower capacity to fit in other phones Jul 20 14:02:44 \_o_/ Jul 20 14:02:56 i might buy a couple of japods, i s'pose Jul 20 14:03:14 or three, since dx gives a discount if you buy 3+ Jul 20 14:04:10 jonwil: osso-calendar Jul 20 14:04:40 what specifically is unknown about the workings of that Jul 20 14:04:57 if there is specitfic unknowns about what it talks to, how it stores data etc, then yes I can look at it Jul 20 14:05:07 but I dont plan to just reverse engineer it for the purposes of cloning its UI Jul 20 14:05:36 that policy.pl was compiled by older swi prolog Jul 20 14:05:42 jonwil: I'm not sure exactly but I read that it's impossible to boot maemo without it Jul 20 14:05:49 installing older swi prolog on computer Jul 20 14:06:51 and indeed I stumbled upon it when trying to run fremantle in a chroot, and as I was hoping we could strip out all closed source bits from fremantle to be able to redistribute a chroot image Jul 20 14:07:11 that is why I said it Jul 20 14:07:27 which calendar package specifically? Jul 20 14:07:52 http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages lists all the calendar packages as "no" under "Needed For N900" Jul 20 14:08:19 don't know, I apt-get removed anything related to calendar, let me check Jul 20 14:08:30 please do Jul 20 14:08:41 if that page is incorrect, then it should be corrected Jul 20 14:10:22 well Calendar-ui-widgets is used by modest and osso-notes as well as calendar Jul 20 14:10:37 by osso-notes? Jul 20 14:10:47 what is notes doing with calendar?? Jul 20 14:11:09 calendar-ui contains some widgets Jul 20 14:11:17 I mean calendar-ui-widgetsd Jul 20 14:11:21 like color picker or something Jul 20 14:11:43 "A ColorPicker UI Widget for Calendar and others" Jul 20 14:11:45 is what it says Jul 20 14:11:58 it was calendar-ui and calendar-home-applet but maybe it was another thing that prevented running hildon and I mistakenly attributed to calendar as I had read that removing it breaks maemo Jul 20 14:11:58 there is a dev package for it in the SDK Jul 20 14:13:40 well I dont see anything specific about calendar that looks important Jul 20 14:15:13 ok, so someone give me something to reverse engineer then :P Jul 20 14:16:17 messages ui Jul 20 14:16:26 jonwil: hildon-welcome, with the slotmachine Jul 20 14:16:36 not neccesarily the ui part but the dbus or what ever communication behind it Jul 20 14:17:58 rtcom-messaging-ui is complex to reverse engineer because of all the ties to telephony Jul 20 14:18:17 as for hildon-welcome, what do we need to know about it? Jul 20 14:18:17 a perfect task then eh? :D Jul 20 14:18:21 jonwil: rewrite every slotmachine picker into something more sensible Jul 20 14:18:39 I already gave up on rtcom-messaging-ui Jul 20 14:18:40 namely, date and time both in the settings menu and in the welcome screen Jul 20 14:18:46 and the fmtx frequency Jul 20 14:19:20 dang I hoped one day we can replace the ui package :/ Jul 20 14:19:20 and I am not interested in doing deep level UI work, I have tried that already. Jul 20 14:19:41 What I am looking for is something which talks to other parts of the system where we want to know how it does that Jul 20 14:19:48 like I did with the WiFi stuff before Jul 20 14:19:57 jonwil: also maybe clockd, how to replace it with something open Jul 20 14:20:10 qwazix: there is the open clock from ade Jul 20 14:20:30 merlin1991: does it replace clockd or only the ui? Jul 20 14:20:40 the current state lives on cssu gitorious, and will probably be worked on Jul 20 14:20:42 I think only the ui Jul 20 14:21:06 I was talking about the daemon Jul 20 14:21:17 wtf is clockd, and why is it closed? Jul 20 14:21:18 ah sry then Jul 20 14:21:23 daemon clockd is closed Jul 20 14:21:38 clockd is the daemon for handling time Jul 20 14:21:47 does timed for harmattan do the same job? and is it open? Jul 20 14:21:55 I update time from celullar network Jul 20 14:22:05 this is reason why is closed Jul 20 14:22:11 timed is open Jul 20 14:22:24 doing similar job, but interface is different Jul 20 14:23:25 there is both clockd and libtime Jul 20 14:23:32 both closed Jul 20 14:23:32 both are related Jul 20 14:23:37 i.e. libtime talks to clockd Jul 20 14:23:39 both are closed Jul 20 14:23:50 libtime is only dbus library which talk to clockd Jul 20 14:24:31 ok, so what do we need to know about clockd? Jul 20 14:25:30 why the fuck do we need a daemon to keep track of the time Jul 20 14:26:13 the daemon is needed so it can talk to other stuff over dbus Jul 20 14:26:33 e.g. it talks to signal com.nokia.phone.net.network_time_info_change Jul 20 14:26:46 com.nokia.mce.signal.sig_device_mode_ind Jul 20 14:26:57 daemon also send signal when it changing clock Jul 20 14:27:13 so all application should update it via that dbus signal Jul 20 14:27:14 yeah it does Jul 20 14:27:22 it is needed if you have time timer Jul 20 14:27:25 in your app Jul 20 14:27:31 ok, so what do we need to know about what clockd does? Jul 20 14:27:44 so why does a normal linux desktop NOT need something like that? Jul 20 14:27:49 jonwil, there is docs Jul 20 14:27:51 we probably need to know if all the methods and signals of it can be replaced by equivalent timed functions Jul 20 14:28:11 jonwil, https://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/clockd/ Jul 20 14:28:30 and https://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/libtime/ Jul 20 14:28:31 I basically still have the same question as before: how can I download a lot of map data first to my desktop computer and then to the phone? I don't care which mapping application for the moment. Jul 20 14:28:39 I don't get why this isn't documented. Jul 20 14:28:57 kerio: I think cron does that, not sure though Jul 20 14:29:25 I have no problems getting it from the desktop to the phone. Jul 20 14:29:39 fasta: you can use ovi map loader for ovi maps Jul 20 14:29:51 The problems are 1) "where to get the data?" 2) Where is it supposed to go? Jul 20 14:30:01 qwazix: that requires Windows, doesn't it? Jul 20 14:30:35 mm, yep, but I suppose it could work with wine. Also there is a website with direct links Jul 20 14:31:54 qwazix: I also cannot find the canonical place to download Nokia Ovi Suite. Jul 20 14:32:38 fasta: there I can't help you, never used that crapware Jul 20 14:32:47 qwazix: huh? Jul 20 14:32:59 qwazix: so, you aren't even suggesting you yourself endorse? Jul 20 14:33:05 qwazix: why would you do that? Jul 20 14:33:24 no I didn't say ovi suite, I said ovi map loader Jul 20 14:33:40 a little standalone program that just downloads maps Jul 20 14:34:36 qwazix: ok, and what is the canonical location to get that? Jul 20 14:34:47 qwazix: Google seems to have trouble finding int. Jul 20 14:34:48 it* Jul 20 14:34:50 it's deprecated but it works fine with the N900 and you can still find it if you google for it. Maybe not from nookia directly though Jul 20 14:35:21 fasta: I've got it somewhere around here let me check Jul 20 14:36:07 Some of the open source apps look really well, but they don't allow me to do what I want, which is downloading a lot of data from my desktop in one go and then transferring it do some directory. Jul 20 14:36:13 jonwil, also see old version (have some other/more data): http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/alpha/clockd/ http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/libtime/ Jul 20 14:36:39 Perhaps I can reverse-engineer how it works, but I don't get why they don't just document their stuff. Jul 20 14:37:58 hahahaha, nokia pushed source code of libomxil into documentation, see: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/libomxil-bellagio/ Jul 20 14:38:01 :D:D:D Jul 20 14:38:50 jonwil, DocScrutinizer05, see ^^^^ Jul 20 14:38:56 its LGPL anyway Jul 20 14:40:48 fasta: play.qwazix.com/Nokia_Map_Loader_Setup.en.exe it needs to find a drive with the file qf that ovi maps creates on the first run, Jul 20 14:41:14 haven't tried it on Linux though Jul 20 14:42:11 ok, all the info one would need to know about clockd dbus interface is here https://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/clockd/clock__dbus_8h.html Jul 20 14:42:24 that matches with what I can see in the clockd code Jul 20 14:42:32 got to go Jul 20 14:43:11 so it should be possible to replace clockd with new daemon that talks the same dbus interface Jul 20 14:43:56 jonwil: that sounds good Jul 20 14:44:14 but you still need to find something to reveng :) Jul 20 14:44:36 anyway bye for now Jul 20 14:45:08 yes I*do still need something to reverse engineer Jul 20 14:49:43 although what exactly is the benefit of replacing clockd other than "because we can"? Jul 20 14:51:31 i still can't believe we have a daemon called clockd Jul 20 14:51:41 the kernel keeps track of time ffs Jul 20 14:51:56 clockds job is to listen to signals from the cellular services daemon Jul 20 14:52:24 related to the cellular network time information Jul 20 14:52:34 so... if i disabled network time update, why is it still running? Jul 20 14:53:03 jonwil: so it can update his time to the network time? Jul 20 14:53:09 yes Jul 20 14:53:11 that never worked for me on any mobile here Jul 20 14:53:15 :/ Jul 20 14:53:54 your network may not send certain things Jul 20 14:54:18 so yeah timed listens for com.nokia.phone.net.network_time_info_change Jul 20 14:54:38 which takes parameters year, month, day, hour, minute, second, timezone, daylightsaving Jul 20 14:54:43 because my network sucks Jul 20 14:55:00 it also calls get_network_time_info Jul 20 14:55:04 which returns the same values Jul 20 14:55:57 as for why its running even if autosync is off Jul 20 14:56:26 is that things can still request network time values via libtime0 Jul 20 14:56:31 even if its not autosync Jul 20 14:56:42 that and libtime itself contains the calls to turn autosync on Jul 20 14:56:52 and to tell clockd that autosync is now on Jul 20 14:58:02 thank you to whoever at Nokia made dbus info for com.nokia.phone.net available to us mere mortals :) Jul 20 14:58:09 quite nice to have Jul 20 14:59:23 still looking for something worth reverse engineering :P Jul 20 14:59:36 FBI Jul 20 14:59:42 you're arrested Jul 20 14:59:55 ...for possessing barbie dolls Jul 20 15:00:23 jonwil: the bootloaders? :) Jul 20 15:00:29 heh yeah right Jul 20 15:01:08 where is my working uboot... :| Jul 20 15:03:47 ok, find something I can actually do :P Jul 20 15:03:59 dumbass Jul 20 15:04:08 oh sorry, wrong channel Jul 20 15:04:10 :S Jul 20 15:05:06 RiD: why are always trolling? Jul 20 15:05:39 still need something to reverse engineer :P Jul 20 15:08:24 ZogG_laptop: it wasn't on purpose (the dumbass word). i was using the virtual kb and didn't see what channel i was on Jul 20 15:09:31 RiD: you are only on #maemo on freenode at least? Jul 20 15:09:50 I spend most of my time on gtanet Jul 20 15:11:02 jonwil: you want to reverse engineer? you can check harmattan's parts =P Jul 20 15:11:12 I dont care for harmattan :P Jul 20 15:11:46 bad for you Jul 20 15:12:08 I only care about Fremantle because my device is a N900 :P Jul 20 15:12:31 jonwil: fix my uboot? :) Jul 20 15:12:39 well, pali's uboot Jul 20 15:12:50 like I said, I am not interested in bootloader stuff Jul 20 15:13:52 ah ok Jul 20 15:14:02 phonet modem? Jul 20 15:14:35 not intereted in the cellular modem firmware either :P Jul 20 15:14:48 sim card application toolkit? Jul 20 15:15:44 thats not possible without changing the modem firmware IIRC Jul 20 15:16:27 ah, so you're still not touching the firmware? :) Jul 20 15:17:09 or at least make the gsm modem capable of screwing with the base station Jul 20 15:18:10 or whatever wifi-pwner did for wifi, except now it does to gsm Jul 20 15:18:42 Is it possible to get info about which NodeB and RNC the N900 is connected to? Does the celltower provide this info to the mobile? Jul 20 15:31:21 what's rnc? Jul 20 15:35:32 Radio Network Controller Jul 20 15:37:02 The controller of a nodeB Jul 20 15:37:05 Google-fu has produced varying answers... is there a way to prop KDE's Plasma Active on top of Maemo (N900) or is it only really plausible with MeeGo? Jul 20 15:47:49 kgu: iirc you can deduce it from some nodeB extended id Jul 20 15:51:31 kgu: netmon: RNC ID 514 Jul 20 15:54:45 great, thx! Nice app Jul 20 15:57:35 zeq: you've opened a new bug? why didn't update the old one? Jul 20 15:58:17 freemangordon: I'm going to open a new bug for each of our patches (that we wish to push upstream) as romaxa asked me to ;) Jul 20 15:59:15 aah, great we have romaxa back Jul 20 15:59:47 I have them all ready to go. I've just been trying to get this bloody toolchian to work... Jul 20 16:00:05 s/toolchian/toolchain/ Jul 20 16:00:05 zeq meant: I have them all ready to go. I've just been trying to get this bloody toolchain to work... Jul 20 16:00:06 I was without inet since yesterday night, seems I missed some interesting development :) Jul 20 16:00:36 oh? Jul 20 16:01:00 yeah, my bill was not payed :D Jul 20 16:01:17 and stupid inet provider didn't send me a mail Jul 20 16:01:29 oops Jul 20 16:01:44 DocScrutinizer51: Do you know if BSC ID is also possible, maybe another app? Jul 20 16:01:52 when on 2G Jul 20 16:02:12 zeq: anyway, i have to go out for a while, bbl Jul 20 16:02:29 ok, I'll hopefully have that toolchain working by then... Jul 20 16:02:41 wish you luck Jul 20 16:02:42 I can't remember how I got it working before... Jul 20 16:14:10 still cant think of anything worth reverse engineering... Jul 20 16:35:11 Can I also use PBF OSM data directory on the phone? Jul 20 17:14:55 whenever i click on an icon on my nokia n900 my phone freezes. i've done a hard reset but still the same thing. i does change to all 4 desktops with no problem but that's about it. no time, no status bar. any ideas??? Jul 20 17:38:52 kerio: ping Jul 20 17:47:20 gn00b: either something's taking up your RAM or your processor. reboot? Jul 20 17:48:19 freemangordon: still hitting http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=53135 :( Jul 20 17:48:21 04Bug 53135: was not found. Jul 20 17:52:48 Sicelo, i have to reboot every time i end a call or click an icon Jul 20 17:54:20 ah, after a reboot, you could start Xterm via Shift+Ctrl+X, run htop (or top if you don't have htop) .. might help you see which process is the cause of your sorrows Jul 20 17:59:10 kgu: nope, no idea Jul 20 18:03:39 Sicelo, using top. Mem: 242272K used CPU: 6.2% Jul 20 18:04:08 is that about right? Jul 20 18:05:50 too much ram used. Jul 20 18:06:34 either a forkbomb or some process fscks dbus Jul 20 18:07:28 mem used doesn't tell too much Jul 20 18:08:03 cpu a little bit more Jul 20 18:08:42 13.4% Mem /usr/bin/osso-addre is the largest amount that i can see being used Jul 20 18:10:32 62.5% CPU /usr/bin/Xorg -logf Jul 20 18:12:21 check your rootfs for free space Jul 20 18:12:35 how? this is all new to me Jul 20 18:12:44 df -h / Jul 20 18:12:56 jonwil: pong? wtf Jul 20 18:15:24 Filesystem: rootfs Size: 227.8M Used: 134.7M Available: 88.8M Use%: 60% Mounted on: / Jul 20 18:16:16 free enough :P Jul 20 18:17:11 i don't care if i lose all my personal data (pics, music, numbers)...i just want my device to work. Jul 20 18:19:09 ah, shortcut is to flash then Jul 20 18:19:22 flash rootfs only Jul 20 18:20:01 in your shoes, i'd carefully review my recent app installations, etc Jul 20 18:21:54 * Sicelo has come close to a reflash numerous times since 1 year ago, but with a careful 'recovery strategy' has managed to avoid it completely thus far Jul 20 18:21:57 :P Jul 20 18:22:14 flash just the rootfs...do you know of a url with a good tutorial? Jul 20 18:22:49 ~flashing Jul 20 18:22:50 i heard maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jul 20 18:26:02 after reading the link, i realize that i flashed it this morning. still have the same problem. Jul 20 18:27:25 :-| Jul 20 18:27:35 flash went fine? Jul 20 18:28:08 some crap in ~ Jul 20 18:28:15 can't remember exact syntax, but i remember the word 'successful' Jul 20 18:31:05 then you'll have to flash eMMC too Jul 20 18:32:00 if you still have the problem after a 'verified' successful flash, it would start to point to failing hardware Jul 20 18:36:41 so it seems that the only difference in flashing the eMMC is a trailing '-R' Jul 20 18:37:01 not really :P Jul 20 18:37:26 you need to supply the correct image. there's a rootfs image and an emmc image Jul 20 18:37:34 just flashed rootfs again. CMT flashed successfully Jul 20 18:41:29 RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin Jul 20 18:41:37 says it's combined Jul 20 18:44:55 002? Jul 20 18:45:50 hi, can anyone help me with flashing my n900? Jul 20 18:46:19 omg. today is n900 flashing day :P Jul 20 18:46:25 Ja_: why do you need to do that? Jul 20 18:46:34 it says that it's the 'Latest Maemo 5 USA release for Nokia N900' Jul 20 18:47:49 yesterday it just turned off by itself and when i wanted to boot it up again there were no images and win98 like UI Jul 20 18:49:02 couldn't do much on it, the top bar was pink and i had no icons on the desktop Jul 20 18:49:25 gn00b: most of us flash global firmware Jul 20 18:49:43 so i thought if i have to reflash it why not checking out nemo and that's where problems happened Jul 20 18:49:50 Ja_: incredible. Jul 20 18:50:25 anyway, Jul 20 18:50:30 ~flashing Jul 20 18:50:32 well, maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jul 20 18:50:37 Ja_: ^ Jul 20 18:51:20 ok...i'll try the global one Jul 20 18:51:25 the problem is i cannot boot the phone into upgrade mode Jul 20 18:51:39 US version is known to have ... issues, sometimes Jul 20 18:51:44 now i cannot boot it at all Jul 20 18:52:04 recharge your battery in a 5800 Jul 20 18:52:09 Ja_: probably battery. get another fully charged battery Jul 20 18:52:15 ah, DocScrutinizer05 beat me to it :P Jul 20 18:52:42 dont have a 5800, charging it in n900 is an option? Jul 20 18:53:04 as long as it's a working n900 ;) Jul 20 18:53:05 n900 won't charge with fsckd rootfs Jul 20 18:53:29 actually, no phone does Jul 20 18:53:52 but usually you don't mess up your rootfs on featurephones Jul 20 18:54:31 yeah. /me still has an N-Gage with a fsckd rootfs. no one can flash it this side of the world Jul 20 18:55:32 so, without a battery i cannot do anything right now? Jul 20 18:55:40 nope Jul 20 18:55:54 ok, thanks for your time Jul 20 19:08:16 Ja_: if you don't have access to another n900 or 5800, I suggest buying an external charger over getting a new battery in your situation Jul 20 19:08:31 they're cheap Jul 20 19:09:29 you guys (or girls) are great! it works. thank you for taking the time with me. Jul 20 19:11:04 gn00b: :-D Jul 20 19:13:04 :-) Jul 20 19:13:45 gn00b: now get backupmenu! Jul 20 19:13:52 ~bm Jul 20 19:13:53 methinks backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 Jul 20 19:16:20 freemangordon: ping. Jul 20 19:17:35 * vi__ psssht Jul 20 19:17:44 * vi__ cracks a beer. Jul 20 19:21:07 got it. thanx again. Jul 20 20:06:16 @FIQ you think connecting the battery to the acp-7e charger by a couple of wires would work? Jul 20 20:15:14 I wouldn't do that Jul 20 20:15:49 the output voltage is too high, either the battery takes damage or the battery's circuitry takes damage Jul 20 21:06:30 DO NOT MESS WITH LI-ION BATTERIES! Jul 20 21:07:45 and if you do blow one up, DO NOT INHALE, leave the area immediately Jul 20 21:10:40 and GO SEE A DOCTOR Jul 20 21:11:33 http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?262234-TK-Monster-Explosion&s=3bd8b08241a23249dba5893049dc93f9 Jul 20 21:12:31 or better yet: don't mess with batteries at all outside their intended use (being used and being charged - with conventional methods) Jul 20 21:13:09 FIQ: but messing around is fun! Jul 20 21:13:47 kerio: do what you want Jul 20 21:13:59 but first see that link I posted Jul 20 21:14:11 disclaimer :: I take no responsibility for any kind of damage caused by my line above Jul 20 21:15:07 http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?340028-Flashlight-Explosion&p=3969230&viewfull=1#post3969230 Jul 20 21:19:59 ShadowJK: dang, if only I mentioned the LiIon batteries in that shelf that burnt down and almost took me with it Jul 20 21:21:03 I briefly wondered why the flashlight people seem to get more bodily harm from Li batteries than RC people, but then realized that when the RC model airplane/heli or whatever explodes, it's not usually in the same room as the user :P Jul 20 21:21:31 ShadowJK: or in their pocket. Jul 20 21:21:36 Yikes... Jul 20 21:21:59 I believe chem|st has an amusing story concerning exploding batteries... Jul 20 21:22:25 I'm just happy there were ~80 shells 9mm in that shelf, so this was probably what awakened me Jul 20 21:25:28 wha...bullets? Jul 20 21:25:29 ShadowJK: where from stems the HF? Jul 20 21:25:47 Teflon membrane? Jul 20 21:25:49 I'm unsure of the chemistry involved Jul 20 21:27:39 Off for the weekend. Try not to blow yourselves all up before I'm back. :) Jul 20 21:27:48 ShadowJK: seems you got a link to same forum anyway :-D Jul 20 21:28:08 Woody14619: we will leave a video for you Jul 20 21:29:49 now serious: such thinng like the blasted away balcony can't happen with BL-5J, but you *might* start a fire and suffer from ventig poisonous gas anyway Jul 20 21:31:19 while charging in N900 is safe due to hw safety measures, it is NO good idea to alien charge LiIon cells with any random power source you happen to find somewhere Jul 20 21:32:40 off topic: tricopter armed with fireworks hunting hydrogen balloons, and bonus fireworks anti-aircraft turret at end :-) Jul 20 21:32:46 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozHoP_YThRI Jul 20 21:37:46 I'd think the final boom was again the battery ;-P Jul 20 21:39:28 * DocScrutinizer05 just wonders how they managed Z-axis rotation with a tricopter Jul 20 21:40:18 the rear rotor is servo mounted and can tilt left/right Jul 20 21:40:44 or are those rotors swivel-mounted Jul 20 21:40:54 :nod: Jul 20 21:41:54 They're supposedly easier to control than quad Jul 20 21:42:03 hm? Jul 20 21:42:30 I'd guess the electronics won't bother if it's tri or quad ;-D Jul 20 21:44:18 For tri you might get away with gyro stabilization, but for quad I think you need a full mcu Jul 20 21:44:48 stupid mech gyro stabi? Jul 20 21:45:58 I'd rather write a PID in assembler ;-) Jul 20 21:46:03 In RC world, "gyro" is essentially a unit, that has servo control data input, and output. It can do "attitude hold" or "rate hold" on one axis, and can affect a single servo (or speed control) output to do that Jul 20 21:47:12 I think with quadcopter you need to do more "mixing" of control outputs to achieve desired goal? Jul 20 21:47:20 sure Jul 20 21:47:40 nothing a raspi couldn't do ;-D Jul 20 21:47:47 tricopter can have pitch controlled by rear rotor speed, yaw controlled by rear rotor tilt, and roll by forward rotors Jul 20 21:48:08 The popular controllers are "arduino based" ;-) Jul 20 21:48:58 "Atmega48/88/168/328 (DIL28)" Jul 20 21:48:59 :D Jul 20 21:49:14 yeah Jul 20 21:49:33 so low end it gets expensive Jul 20 21:49:43 That's PIC ;-) Jul 20 21:50:01 DIL28 - dafaq! Jul 20 21:50:28 It's nice for people who only ever solder 100Amp battery plugs Jul 20 21:52:20 I'm pondering since 15 minutes about my old weird idea of a 2stroke-powered generator instead of batteries, for those quads Jul 20 21:53:10 It's useful for longevity Jul 20 21:53:43 energy density of castor oil > LiIon Jul 20 21:53:55 I don't know about quads, but on "normal" RC helis, you can get about 20-30 minutes on electric while carrying camera platform and equipment for realtime downlink of videostream Jul 20 21:54:08 recharging possible while flying Jul 20 21:55:22 With extra fuel tanks and such, nitro powered "normal" RC helis can get close to an hour of flight time, but the smoke and vibrations are annoying Jul 20 21:55:43 :nod: Jul 20 21:56:00 this thing only has noise and fire issues: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=y1Xh_VAUTcA#t=100s Jul 20 22:00:45 yeah, such a turbine monster spinning at 50,000/min and eating like a liter/min of gasoline is no less scary than LiIon going mad Jul 20 22:01:52 I wonder how they transmit the turbine power to the rotor Jul 20 22:03:25 well, with pressure? Jul 20 22:04:45 or with difficulaty Jul 20 22:04:49 There's this thing that starts spinning immediately, but the main gear and autorotation gears on the main rotor shaft seem to not move at all at first!? Jul 20 22:06:18 (rest of video fairly standard fly around) Jul 20 22:08:13 maybe some sort of centrifugal clutch or infinitely variable transmission.. Jul 20 22:11:19 where can i get a n950? Jul 20 22:12:00 The ones existing in the wild are "loaned" from Nokia. I heard someone sold their loaned device on ebay for like $2,500 though? Jul 20 22:12:32 if its that much i will thake a pass i was hopin maybe around 250 range Jul 20 22:12:40 take* Jul 20 22:12:42 ShadowJK: not all are loaners Jul 20 22:12:44 The phone was never released Jul 20 22:12:50 And it was never sold Jul 20 22:13:09 If it had been, it would probably had same, or slightly higher, price range as the N9 Jul 20 22:13:24 err, it _was_ sold afaik, on commercial DDP Jul 20 22:13:31 oh Jul 20 22:13:40 Yeah but not to general public :P Jul 20 22:13:41 what does ddp stand for Jul 20 22:13:48 developer device program, presumably Jul 20 22:13:52 6 months resale clause Jul 20 22:14:20 Anyway as it stands, they're pretty damn rare and that's why the one on ebay went for so much Jul 20 22:14:22 i dont know why nokia makes great products and not release it to people Jul 20 22:14:32 I heard they break pretty easily Jul 20 22:14:33 here ddp == launchpad (or was it actually launcpad?) Jul 20 22:15:20 But yeah I agree, a qwerty hw keyboard N9? I'd pay money for that Jul 20 22:15:29 But then again, I'd pay alot more for a upgraded N900 :P Jul 20 22:18:49 hah, our hw/admin-guy today - when I seen him using his phone - told me it's a hooker800, not a N9. And he likes it way better than any spyPhone Jul 20 22:19:21 esp since it connects to exchange server Jul 20 22:19:39 & Jul 20 22:19:54 sorry Jul 20 22:20:20 Ooh, 3dmasters 2012 happened Jul 20 22:20:22 just the SIM holder incl SIM shoots away 2 meters whenever he opens the USB flap, since he dropped the device and the sim hoolde rnotch broke ;-P Jul 20 22:20:42 sim holder notch Jul 20 22:21:50 grrr, it appears the official video crew used interlaced video. W.T.F. Jul 20 22:22:01 i want a dual-core n900 with 2gb of ram :c Jul 20 22:22:26 I raise you quad core Jul 20 22:23:41 don't be ridiculous now Jul 20 22:23:43 HSPA dual carrier and LTE, wifi 11n dual band Jul 20 22:23:53 why only dual? Jul 20 22:24:01 wow, lets make a spec sheet of your ideal phone and send it jolla mobile Jul 20 22:24:06 Because no carrier does tripple carrier? Jul 20 22:24:21 no, i meant the wifi Jul 20 22:24:35 what other bands are there besides 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz? Jul 20 22:25:04 ShadowJK: *another* 2.4GHz or 5GHz Jul 20 22:25:22 daddy needs his dual radio Jul 20 22:25:37 listen... do you hear it already? Jul 20 22:25:52 DocScrutinizer05: the *plink*? Jul 20 22:25:53 yeah Jul 20 22:26:03 ;-P Jul 20 22:26:21 and you're the one that still doesn't provide a service to upgrade the ram! Jul 20 22:26:37 you're an EE! you should be good at this stuff! Jul 20 22:27:05 in fact there's a site that allows you to upgrade your RAM directly via the site, works instantly! :o Jul 20 22:27:12 o: Jul 20 22:27:31 * ShadowJK remebers Norton RAMbooster software sold on retail shelves in retail box Jul 20 22:27:34 promised to double your ram Jul 20 22:27:36 through software Jul 20 22:27:37 :P Jul 20 22:27:38 ...what Jul 20 22:27:43 too bad I don't remember what it was called Jul 20 22:27:53 shadeslayer: seriously? Jul 20 22:27:58 er Jul 20 22:28:03 never mind my failed HL Jul 20 22:28:15 yes Jul 20 22:28:19 ShadowJK: what did it do, exactly? create a swap? Jul 20 22:28:29 run memmaker and create swap, yeah Jul 20 22:28:34 presumably Jul 20 22:28:47 twice the ram! but the newly-added ram is slow as shit Jul 20 22:28:54 none sued them? Jul 20 22:28:54 Mr Norton was such a scam artist when he started, that's why I refuse to use Norton products today.. heh Jul 20 22:29:13 heh Jul 20 22:29:19 Nobody remembers Norton Crashguard? It promised to fix all crashes! Jul 20 22:29:33 did it do anything at all? Jul 20 22:29:50 What it did was hook into all the signal handlers, or whatever that's called on Windows, and just made everything ignore crashes and continue anyway Jul 20 22:30:05 lol :p Jul 20 22:30:33 It had fancy GUI listing the amount of crashes it saved you from! Jul 20 22:30:41 afk Jul 20 22:30:45 heh Jul 20 22:30:50 afk Jul 20 22:32:30 why not make a miniature version of rasperry pi with 1.4 dual core chip and communication chip and battery add on to it Jul 20 22:33:27 ... Jul 20 22:33:43 rPi is pretty miniature as it is Jul 20 22:34:12 It's the "1.4Ghz", "dual core", "communication chip", and all that, that make things bigger Jul 20 22:34:27 just put an i7 in the n900 Jul 20 22:34:38 what can go wrong? Jul 20 22:35:18 i7 your battery would drain fast Jul 20 22:36:17 Clocking the rPi chip at 1.4Ghz would still be slower than N9 for sure Jul 20 22:37:53 i am saying sell a raspberry like device except its a phone barebones Jul 20 22:38:10 iluminator105: the openpandora would be neat, except that they don't want to put a phone module in Jul 20 22:38:16 also, carriers won't let you do that Jul 20 22:38:38 Like GTA04? Just circuitboard Jul 20 22:38:41 iirc Jul 20 22:48:04 GTA04 thats pretty cool Jul 20 22:49:56 [00:38:10] iluminator105: the openpandora would be neat, except that they don't want to put a phone module in Jul 20 22:50:19 isn't the pandora's specs worse than n900? Jul 20 22:52:13 same as n900 iirc? Jul 20 22:53:11 hm Jul 20 22:53:13 oh yes Jul 20 22:54:34 even if jolla mobile comes with something half ass decent, it will sell like hot cakes, IMHO Jul 20 22:55:00 I wonder how many night flying RC helicopters get reported as UFOs? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Bnk-5G7TB60#t=110s Jul 20 22:57:44 will jolla mobile have this aegis thing too tho? Jul 20 22:59:16 That's my biggest concern really Jul 20 23:01:29 The 3 suckiest properties about N9, as I gather, is 1) aegis 2) hw kbd 3) compromising touchscreen for curved surface Jul 20 23:01:41 But I've never used an N9, so Jul 20 23:02:08 *nod* Jul 20 23:03:20 as long as jolla or anyone at all are going to ever make phones with hardware keyboards again I'm fine Jul 20 23:03:34 seen too much of hw-kbd-less things... Jul 20 23:03:47 asus makes hw kbd tablet, but that's not the same I guess Jul 20 23:04:31 asus transformer? Jul 20 23:04:38 uhh Jul 20 23:04:40 And slider Jul 20 23:04:47 ah ok Jul 20 23:04:57 the transformer is nice but not really what I want Jul 20 23:05:11 as it's a tablet Jul 20 23:05:31 ya Jul 20 23:05:55 I've been seriously considering ordering an asus transformer as N800/N810 replacement though Jul 20 23:06:15 I've considered buying one, but not as a phone Jul 20 23:06:29 ofc Jul 20 23:06:51 but more like an ultraportable computer, it could probably do wonders as one Jul 20 23:07:28 Well not really Jul 20 23:07:36 it fails as "ultraportable computer" because it runs android Jul 20 23:07:37 heh. Jul 20 23:07:41 yeah Jul 20 23:07:44 that's the problem Jul 20 23:08:11 As "thing to surf cats on youtube while falling asleep" though, it should be nice Jul 20 23:08:23 heh :p Jul 20 23:08:43 hm Jul 21 00:28:28 hello I just got my N900 but I need help please. Jul 21 00:29:59 people asleep, not mindreaders Jul 21 00:30:55 How do I get to command line Interface and be root? Beacuse when trying to install anything in my mobile n900 it always showing an error message unable to install!! Jul 21 00:31:20 Pucho: new purchaser? Jul 21 00:31:41 s/purchaser/purchase Jul 21 00:31:44 fu Jul 21 00:31:47 s/purchaser/purchase/ Jul 21 00:31:50 I purchase my N900 used from ebay. Jul 21 00:31:55 ah well i'm dumb today Jul 21 00:32:04 I see. well, did you flash it first? Jul 21 00:32:09 On an otherwise functional N900; Command line interface: X-terminal is preinstalled. Root: install rootsh from application manager, then type "root" in x-terminal Jul 21 00:32:10 or was it already flashed? Jul 21 00:32:27 There is an app called x terminal, can I just type SUDO to become root? Jul 21 00:32:28 If the previous owner has messed it up, no idea :) Jul 21 00:32:45 No it needs the "rootsh" app Jul 21 00:32:47 I never flashed this device, I just started using it out of the box Jul 21 00:33:03 atleast I think it was called rootsh Jul 21 00:33:15 what is rootsh, sorry I am new Jul 21 00:33:18 ok. if it has leftovers i recommend you to flash Jul 21 00:33:39 yep, it is "rootsh" Jul 21 00:33:56 The unit was working fine after I received it, but now it cannot install or update apps Jul 21 00:33:56 you want to use the commandline and dont know what is root? Jul 21 00:34:07 nvm i read it wrong* Jul 21 00:34:13 rootsh gives you "sudo gainroot", to get root privs but user environment (similar as "su"), and "root", which gives you root privs root env (similar to "su -") Jul 21 00:34:29 After receiving the unit, I installed many apps just to test the n900 Jul 21 00:34:51 Probably either the emmc, /home or / are full or corrupt, my guess Jul 21 00:34:53 lol Jul 21 00:35:01 with extras-devel on? Jul 21 00:35:03 when rootsh is typed in CLI, the response is -sh rootsh: not found Jul 21 00:35:14 You don't have "rootsh" installed then. Jul 21 00:35:43 I did not install anything from extras-devel repository, only from install apps manager on the N900 itself Jul 21 00:37:15 yes, but the app manager may have the extras devel catalog on Jul 21 00:37:19 check under catalogs Jul 21 00:38:59 App mgr catalogs are: nokia apps, Nokia Sys Software Update, Ovi and maemo.org Jul 21 00:39:28 Either way, I would not waste time trying to repair software problems the previous onwer has caused Jul 21 00:39:49 Maemo.org repo URL is repository.maemo.org/extras Jul 21 00:41:05 Of course the other possibility is that the hw is damaged in some areas Jul 21 00:41:20 That might be true. Jul 21 00:41:33 is this a common problem w/ n900 Hw? Jul 21 00:42:27 Most common issues are broken usb port, second most common is dead/dying/malfunctioning modem Jul 21 00:42:38 so it's not common Jul 21 00:42:46 the usb port scares me everyday Jul 21 00:43:03 feels so loose Jul 21 00:43:12 not compared at all when it was new Jul 21 00:43:19 ok Jul 21 00:43:28 i have had a few heart attacks where i thought my usb port died Jul 21 00:43:52 I've accidentally hung this N900 from charger cable 3 times now, and dropped it on floor once. No problems Jul 21 00:44:02 .... Jul 21 00:44:07 * RiD runs Jul 21 00:44:11 :) Jul 21 00:44:19 do it a 4th Jul 21 00:44:28 i only dropped my phone on 6cm Jul 21 00:44:30 no. :) Jul 21 00:44:38 shiny wood Jul 21 00:44:49 Mine fell from hip height onto concrete floor Jul 21 00:45:16 back cover and battery separated from it Jul 21 00:45:16 What is default root password on n900? I am trying to run sudo command on n900 Jul 21 00:45:29 There is no root password Jul 21 00:46:49 Though when you install openssh-server, you get asked to create a root password. Other than that, root (and user) password doesn't exist Jul 21 00:47:37 Thank U. every time the following cmmd is run: "sudo dpkg --configure -a", the console asks for password Jul 21 00:47:48 ShadowJK: that made my cry Jul 21 00:47:50 The default sudo config gives user 0 permissions, pretty much :) Jul 21 00:48:15 using terminal how can the user become root? Jul 21 00:48:32 I mean become superuser Jul 21 00:48:32 sudo gainroot Jul 21 00:48:41 Without ever using app manager? No ways Jul 21 00:49:28 what do you mean? Plz explain. App Mgr is not working correctly. It says no apps are installed. Jul 21 00:50:10 When "sudo gainroot" is run, the response is "Enable RD mode if U want 2 break Ur device. Jul 21 00:50:23 I mean what I said. The path to become root: Start app manager, install rootsh, start xterminal, type "root" in xterminal Jul 21 00:51:40 Thank U. Unfortunately App Mgr cannot install anything. I am trying to get App Mrg working again. There were some helpful posts in Maemo forum but they require root access. Jul 21 00:51:47 If previous owner has broken stuff, then reflash. Jul 21 00:52:10 ok Jul 21 00:52:32 without root you can probably still access 'dmesg' to check for serious problems Jul 21 00:52:48 and df -h to check free space Jul 21 00:52:56 sounds like full rootfs Jul 21 00:53:05 could be Jul 21 00:53:37 cssu-thumb would help ;) Jul 21 00:53:46 zeq: I bet it will take 4 hours to get him to paste output of df -h, though Jul 21 00:54:04 zeq: not without reflash first, surely? :) Jul 21 00:54:16 * ShadowJK goes sleep Jul 21 00:54:33 probably not. app manager really could do with a recovery option... Jul 21 00:54:43 rootfs usage is 64% Jul 21 00:55:02 App repository could really do with a optification check. :) Jul 21 00:55:29 Pucho: without root, you're probably not going to be able to fix it, so your only recourse is probably reflashing Jul 21 00:55:30 /home ? Jul 21 00:55:44 yeah agreed Jul 21 00:56:11 Also it's just sensible to start from clean install when you get secondhand n900 Jul 21 00:56:21 ^ Jul 21 00:56:23 I'm off to sleep myself now too... Jul 21 00:56:23 ok Jul 21 00:56:28 thank u Jul 21 00:57:10 * ShadowJK makes second attempt at stop irc and begin sleep.. curse this n900, irc in bed is evil Jul 21 00:57:15 :) Jul 21 00:58:32 freemangordon: linaro-4.6-2012.7 has built qt okay. I've also patched it for 4.7, enabling 4.7 to be used for building apps against it. Jul 21 00:58:45 * zeq knows what ShadowJK means Jul 21 01:01:12 zeq: what is cssu-thumb? Jul 21 01:01:15 ~cssu-thumb Jul 21 01:01:35 infobot: ~cssu-thumb Jul 21 01:01:59 infobot is dead Jul 21 01:02:04 dumb bot Jul 21 01:02:07 ok, nvm, google told me about cssu-thumb Jul 21 01:02:08 see? Jul 21 01:02:36 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84829 Jul 21 01:02:39 this one? Jul 21 01:03:28 a special kernel (kernel-cssu) based on top of kernel-power 50 Jul 21 01:03:32 Sweet Jul 21 01:04:08 does not work on n900 being the High Secure device Jul 21 01:04:16 aw so close Jul 21 01:08:55 zeq: does thumb2 kernel require all userland to be thumb2 also? Jul 21 01:09:19 or is it more like sse/sse2 on the desktop? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jul 21 02:59:58 2012