**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 26 02:59:58 2012
Jul 26 03:09:18 <Estel_> ShadowJK, if "Rate" is net in/out from battery, shouldn't it be same, when reported by charge21.sh and bq27200.sh (in loop)?
Jul 26 03:09:39 <Estel_> I understand this whole thing the way You described it here, but this is the thing that makes me wonder
Jul 26 03:10:21 <Estel_> BTW, I eliminated possibility of charger providing too low power, by connecting it to 20A PS ;)
Jul 26 03:11:57 <Estel_> BTw, I may be wrong, but current provided by bq27200.sh seems to be more in line with "reality" that "Ratye" provided by charge21.sh  . and again, If I understand it correctly, rate and current reported by bq27200.sh should be the same no? Only "system" (i.e. guess-worked value used by system) and ch (rate - syustem) should be different, no?
Jul 26 03:12:11 <Estel_> of course, if I understand it wrong way, scratch it :)
Jul 26 03:21:46 <EdLin> does anyone know of a website where genuine n900 styluses are sold?
Jul 26 03:22:59 <EdLin> nokia.com pretends they never sold the device.
Jul 26 03:23:17 <EdLin> google shopping gives me capacitive stylii as results, as does amazon
Jul 26 04:45:06 <Estel_> EdLin, replacement styluses are quite cheap, but made from more elastic, worse plastic
Jul 26 04:45:24 <Estel_> genuine is hard and nice, whatever it sounds
Jul 26 04:45:56 <Estel_> if had to choose, I would preffer scratched etc genuine stylus, over new replacement
Jul 26 04:46:02 <Estel_> it's much more comfortable
Jul 26 04:47:38 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, N900's charging circuit - does it have some kind of temperature/time cut-off?
Jul 26 04:48:07 <Estel_> I got strange feeling, that after soldering USB port to motherboard, ~40% of times it doesn't work for first ~10 minutes
Jul 26 04:48:30 <Estel_> despite everything is ok and no errors. After that, everything seems fine, usb and charging work fine. It's not 1st time I see such thing
Jul 26 04:48:55 <Estel_> or maybe not charging circuit, it may be related to usb at all. No idea why heated ground plane could cause smth like that
Jul 26 04:49:30 <Estel_> I not sure if I'vent ruined one perfectly working N900 some time ago, due to that (trying to "fix" messed USB, that in fact was ok, just cut-off after soldering for some time)
Jul 26 04:49:53 <Estel_> (You know, when You try to repair something that works, You usually end up in fckd'ing it totally)
Jul 26 04:50:41 <Estel_> few minutes ago I've almost repeated this mistake, but got englightened and assembled device again - bah, everything works, without any intervention from my side
Jul 26 04:51:18 <Estel_> 4 minutes earlier, it wasn't responding at all to USB put inside (not yesterday's repaired device, just one perfecxtly working, that i've soldered down usb port, aka reinforced)
Jul 26 05:20:35 <Sc0rpius> I think I have never used the stylus in my N900 except for maybe play Angry Birds accurately
Jul 26 05:20:55 <Sc0rpius> I had even forgotten it had a stylus :S
Jul 26 05:32:33 <EdLin> hi, has anyone here gotten a decent n900 from eBay seller cellphonesforever or have I screwed myself out of $162.50?
Jul 26 05:33:27 <EdLin> I should have read tmo before buying from them...
Jul 26 06:59:50 <DocScrutinizer06> Estel_: charger chip has 2 timers, none like 10 min though
Jul 26 07:01:01 <DocScrutinizer06> Estel_: 1 timer is 10..30s and resets chip when you stop talking to chip via I2C (except initial 'emergency' charging without sw supervision)
Jul 26 07:01:41 <DocScrutinizer06> Estel_: 2nd timer is only while in 'emergency' charge and is 32 min after which charger chip shuts down charging
Jul 26 07:01:43 <DocScrutinizer06> see
Jul 26 07:01:48 <DocScrutinizer06> ~flatbatrecover
Jul 26 07:01:49 <infobot> Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover
Jul 26 07:02:54 <DocScrutinizer06> Estel_: there's also overtemp shutdown, but I don't see how that could cause any of the problems like you described them
Jul 26 07:04:33 <DocScrutinizer06> bme also should stop charging when battery is too cold (<-20°C) or too hot (>ca.60°C)
Jul 26 07:11:03 <freemangordon> zeq1: fennec sunspider is back to 6120ms, but memory usage is enormous
Jul 26 07:14:57 <freemangordon> zeq1: with only TMO open it uses 112 Mib (RSS) :(
Jul 26 07:19:38 <Macer> wow
Jul 26 07:19:41 <Macer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBY_Z-Vw0wM&feature=share
Jul 26 07:19:48 <Macer> w....t.....f.....? total parent fail
Jul 26 07:27:43 <zeq1> freemangordon: is it due to the cflags? or a fennec issue?
Jul 26 07:27:58 <zeq1> that is huge!
Jul 26 07:28:07 <zeq1> I only just read 112Mib?
Jul 26 07:29:24 <zeq1> freemangordon: what cflags are you using for fennec?
Jul 26 07:38:10 <DocScrutinizer06> Macer: haha nice. Youtube wants my email addr - FSCK NO WAY!
Jul 26 07:40:04 <DocScrutinizer06> anyway judging by the title I hope this wasn't in USA, otherwise authorities will wait until the 'criminal' is 14(?), then put him to jail for 15 years
Jul 26 07:40:43 <DocScrutinizer06> they done this for 8 year old boy kissing(SIC!) a girl in school class
Jul 26 07:41:09 <Venemo_N9> lol
Jul 26 07:41:47 <DocScrutinizer06> maybe the number been slightly different, like it maybe only was 5 years jail
Jul 26 07:42:02 <DocScrutinizer06> and the boy might have been 6, or 9
Jul 26 07:53:23 <freemangordon> zeq1: -fno-strict-volatile-bitfields -Wno-psabi
Jul 26 07:53:43 <freemangordon> going to try the new fancy stuff (vectorizer, etc
Jul 26 07:54:00 <freemangordon> but the isue if with fennec, not with the compiler
Jul 26 07:56:09 <zeq1> freemangordon: just thought I'd check :)
Jul 26 07:56:42 <freemangordon> zeq1: can't parse that
Jul 26 07:57:24 <zeq1> freemangordon: I was just making sure the problem was with fennec not cflags after all the adventures yesterday!
Jul 26 07:58:29 <zeq1> freemangordon: did you have to fix anything to make it build?
Jul 26 07:58:36 <freemangordon> no
Jul 26 07:59:03 <zeq1> okay, that's good :)
Jul 26 08:00:38 <zeq1> we should, however, change the defines we're using for rotation as romaxa suggested.  There should be an explicity define for needing client-side rotation and another for supporting fremantle.
Jul 26 08:00:39 <freemangordon> yeah. going to find the answer to romaxa's question re comment/code discrepancy
Jul 26 08:01:20 <freemangordon> and to check why it seems to me we're not using shm
Jul 26 08:03:58 <zeq1> X shm?
Jul 26 08:04:21 <freemangordon> yep
Jul 26 08:04:57 <zeq1> that's strange
Jul 26 08:07:50 <freemangordon> well, it is used
Jul 26 08:07:59 <freemangordon> shm i mean
Jul 26 08:08:31 <zeq1> so how is it not working?
Jul 26 08:08:41 <freemangordon> maybe it is
Jul 26 08:09:02 <freemangordon> or maybe not, it'll need some printfs ;)
Jul 26 08:09:49 <freemangordon> but anyway now I am checking if (mIsTopLevel || mListenForResizes) {
Jul 26 08:11:01 <zeq1> ok :)
Jul 26 08:11:18 <freemangordon> zeq1: BTW you can comment on the bugtracker that with latest m-c  sunspider result is back to normal
Jul 26 08:11:27 <freemangordon> to close that
Jul 26 08:11:41 <freemangordon> i can do it too
Jul 26 08:12:21 <freemangordon> well, i'll do it
Jul 26 08:13:48 <zeq1> ok
Jul 26 08:13:56 <freemangordon> done
Jul 26 08:14:33 <zeq1> I noticed that the libc was built on etchnhalf rather than etch:
Jul 26 08:14:49 <freemangordon> whatever that is :D
Jul 26 08:14:50 <zeq1> Compiled on a Linux >>2.6.24-etchnhalf.1-amd64<< system on 2010-06-08.
Jul 26 08:15:04 <freemangordon> aah, devkit
Jul 26 08:15:08 <zeq1> yeah
Jul 26 08:16:04 <zeq1> so maybe the Nokia provided etch devkit isn't the same as the official sb one?
Jul 26 08:17:07 <zeq1> you have the offical Nokia SB, right?
Jul 26 08:17:13 <freemangordon> yes
Jul 26 08:17:19 <freemangordon> vmware image
Jul 26 08:17:34 <zeq1> yeah, any way you can tell what version the etch devkit is?
Jul 26 08:18:16 <zeq1> /opt/scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/ChangeLog
Jul 26 08:18:19 <zeq1> maybe
Jul 26 08:18:55 <zeq1> Thu May 27 11:15:33 EEST 2010  Jussi Hakala <jussi.hakala@movial.com> tagged sb-debian-devkit_1.0.11
Jul 26 08:19:57 <freemangordon> 1.0.10
Jul 26 08:20:25 <freemangordon> 2 may 2008
Jul 26 08:20:34 <zeq1> not that then!
Jul 26 08:20:43 <zeq1> :/
Jul 26 08:21:18 <zeq1> I still can't figure out how qmltube works with DH_COMPAT=7
Jul 26 08:21:45 <freemangordon> i told you, there is updated debhelper in extras-devel afaik
Jul 26 08:23:06 <freemangordon> zeq1: latest qmltube in extras-devel is 0.3.9
Jul 26 08:23:17 <Macer> DocScrutinizer06: really?? 
Jul 26 08:23:23 <freemangordon> are you sure you don't have harmattan version?
Jul 26 08:23:26 <Macer> didn't know youtube asks for an email heh
Jul 26 08:23:38 <zeq1> umm
Jul 26 08:23:51 <zeq1> quteTube-QML 1.3.1 (on my device)
Jul 26 08:24:00 <DocScrutinizer06> really what?
Jul 26 08:24:29 <DocScrutinizer06> ooh youtube
Jul 26 08:24:37 <freemangordon> zeq1: you are sure you are holding n900? :P
Jul 26 08:24:46 <freemangordon> *are you
Jul 26 08:24:47 <zeq1> definitely LOL
Jul 26 08:25:07 <DocScrutinizer06> it's been tagged "might not be appropriate to some... please verify your age by registering with your email and password"
Jul 26 08:25:16 <zeq1> that said, the embbedded video player isn't working
Jul 26 08:25:33 <zeq1> everything else does though
Jul 26 08:25:34 <freemangordon> zeq1: yeah, 1.3.1 here too
Jul 26 08:25:42 <freemangordon> which player?
Jul 26 08:25:59 <freemangordon> qmltube video player?
Jul 26 08:26:00 <zeq1> cuteTube Player
Jul 26 08:26:16 * DocScrutinizer06 chokes at qutetube-*QML*
Jul 26 08:26:37 <zeq1> DocScrutinizer06: QML seems pretty quick here :)
Jul 26 08:27:05 <freemangordon> hmm, works like charm here
Jul 26 08:27:19 <zeq1> freemangordon: something fishy with my device?
Jul 26 08:27:24 <zeq1> it hasn't worked for months
Jul 26 08:27:31 <freemangordon> zeq1: what did you try to play?
Jul 26 08:27:37 <freemangordon> zeq1: deffinitely
Jul 26 08:27:47 <zeq1> since a CSSU (not thumb) update ages ago
Jul 26 08:27:57 <DocScrutinizer06> I think of QML like adams described it for the universe: "it's invention been considered the wrong step by most, and made several people quite angry"
Jul 26 08:28:08 <freemangordon> hehe
Jul 26 08:28:13 <zeq1> freemangordon: any video clip I try
Jul 26 08:28:24 <freemangordon> zeq1: dmesg?
Jul 26 08:28:28 <zeq1> freemangordon: LOL
Jul 26 08:28:30 <freemangordon> anything there
Jul 26 08:28:32 <zeq1> DocScrutinizer06: LOL
Jul 26 08:28:35 <zeq1> oops
Jul 26 08:28:46 <zeq1> I'll take a look
Jul 26 08:29:04 <freemangordon> zeq1: but i am using 720p codecs
Jul 26 08:30:14 <zeq1> nothing in dmes
Jul 26 08:30:15 <zeq1> dmesg
Jul 26 08:30:39 <zeq1> it just says Loading... then goes straight to related
Jul 26 08:31:02 <freemangordon> run it from cli, maybe some message wil pop
Jul 26 08:31:07 <zeq1> what's the package for the 720p codecs?
Jul 26 08:31:18 <freemangordon> no package ;)
Jul 26 08:31:44 <zeq1> ah ok, manually installed
Jul 26 08:31:57 <freemangordon> talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=77695
Jul 26 08:33:20 <zeq1> any reason it's not in the thumb repo?
Jul 26 08:33:56 <freemangordon> yes, DSP codecs come from Nokia
Jul 26 08:35:09 <zeq1> IP distribution issues :(
Jul 26 08:35:52 <freemangordon> yes. though most probably there will be no problem to put that in extras
Jul 26 08:36:12 <freemangordon> but i've never start doing it
Jul 26 08:36:30 <freemangordon> maybe it is time ;)
Jul 26 08:36:52 <vi__> just do it.
Jul 26 08:37:01 <vi__> No one gives a shit about IP on the n900 any more.
Jul 26 08:37:32 <vi__> Which is why I am so annoyed they won't just open most of fremantle up.
Jul 26 08:37:43 <freemangordon> it is not n900, but n950
Jul 26 08:37:52 <vi__> There is nothing to lose.
Jul 26 08:37:55 <vi__> N950?
Jul 26 08:37:58 <freemangordon> the IP I mean
Jul 26 08:38:00 <vi__> Even less fucks given.
Jul 26 08:38:07 <freemangordon> yeah, codecs are from N9/50
Jul 26 08:38:12 <freemangordon> :D:D:D
Jul 26 08:38:29 <freemangordon> well, might think of it
Jul 26 08:38:57 <vi__> why not just host them on a webserver and add a wget to the installation script?
Jul 26 08:39:34 <freemangordon> thats too hackish for me
Jul 26 08:44:26 <kerio> it's what debian does for flashplayer
Jul 26 08:44:57 <kerio> debconf wgets the archive from adobe.com and puts it in the correct place
Jul 26 08:45:16 <kerio> it would be weirder here, though
Jul 26 08:45:25 <kerio> because you have to install a .deb
Jul 26 08:47:09 <freemangordon> zeq1: rotation works with if (!mIsTopLevel || mListenForResizes) { too
Jul 26 08:47:47 <zeq1> I guess we don't need it anymore then 
Jul 26 08:48:07 <freemangordon> hmm, but, but it was if (mIsTopLevel || mListenForResizes) {
Jul 26 08:48:20 <freemangordon> you didn't fixed it :D
Jul 26 08:48:28 <freemangordon> your fix was adding !
Jul 26 08:48:29 <kerio> freemangordon: a tiny webserver that serves a tiny repo with some redirects for packages to localhost
Jul 26 08:48:41 <zeq1> LOL
Jul 26 08:48:59 <zeq1> did I misread the comment and nobody else picked up on it?
Jul 26 08:49:44 <zeq1> what was the comment again?
Jul 26 08:50:06 <freemangordon> // synthesize a resize event if this isn't a toplevel
Jul 26 08:50:45 <zeq1> hmm
Jul 26 08:50:52 <freemangordon> and the original code is "if (mIsTopLevel || mListenForResizes) {"
Jul 26 08:50:59 <freemangordon> the opposite to the comment
Jul 26 08:51:05 <zeq1> exactly#
Jul 26 08:51:25 <freemangordon> but I was thinking your fix is commited in our repo
Jul 26 08:51:35 <zeq1> I'm officially confused
Jul 26 08:51:39 <freemangordon> that is why I just add ! and compile
Jul 26 08:51:44 <zeq1> ah
Jul 26 08:51:52 <freemangordon> without thinking :D
Jul 26 08:51:52 <zeq1> had I already removed it?
Jul 26 08:52:06 <freemangordon> ending up with a code we know that works :D
Jul 26 08:52:16 <zeq1> (not put it back when I refactored the patches)
Jul 26 08:52:21 <freemangordon> yes
Jul 26 08:52:38 <zeq1> yeah, I vaguely remember now :P
Jul 26 08:52:46 <freemangordon> now I removed ! and compiling
Jul 26 08:53:02 <zeq1> sorry about that! :$
Jul 26 08:53:09 <freemangordon> np
Jul 26 08:53:10 * freemangordon is of for a cigarette
Jul 26 08:53:14 <freemangordon> *off
Jul 26 08:58:39 <zeq1> still doesn't work :(
Jul 26 09:04:18 <freemangordon> zeq1: which one?
Jul 26 09:04:29 <freemangordon> qmltube?
Jul 26 09:06:53 <zeq1> yeah, cutetube-QML.  I've not tried the other one.
Jul 26 09:10:50 <zeq1> I think it's actually failing to establish a connection to the video :S
Jul 26 09:11:00 <zeq1> (network rather than codec problem)
Jul 26 09:11:33 <zeq1> cutetube (not QML) just sits there with the player non-advancing and downloads seem stuck at 0%
Jul 26 09:12:10 <zeq1> oh well, never mind.
Jul 26 09:12:21 <zeq1> I'm not going to reflash just for cutetube
Jul 26 09:12:33 <freemangordon> :D
Jul 26 09:14:30 <kerio> D:
Jul 26 09:18:03 <kerio> freemangordon: are the 720p codecs downloadable from the n9/50 repos without having to have a n9/50?
Jul 26 09:18:53 <freemangordon> yes
Jul 26 09:19:00 <kerio> and does apt handle http redirects?
Jul 26 09:20:09 <kerio> if so, you can just make the http server redirect to the nokia server, and add the packages to your repo
Jul 26 09:20:26 <kerio> it would be a massive kludge, mind you
Jul 26 09:22:40 <kerio> aww, it doesn't :(
Jul 26 09:23:19 <teotwaki> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/18645
Jul 26 09:25:05 <kerio> hmm, it's an old bug
Jul 26 09:25:06 <zeq1> freemangordon: I'm trying to rebuild glibc
Jul 26 09:25:22 <freemangordon> zeq1: without ! it works too, but there is a white stripe on the right side from time to time when in portrait
Jul 26 09:25:41 <freemangordon> i wonder do we need that code at all
Jul 26 09:25:45 <kerio> i wonder if it's fixed on the n900's apt
Jul 26 09:25:59 <zeq1> freemangordon: so with it the same as the comment we get a stripe sometimes?
Jul 26 09:27:40 <zeq1> I've rebuilt glibc, not quite perfect yet, it segfaults during setup in SB, not sure from what.  It seems to be otherwise working though.  Two questions though:
Jul 26 09:28:10 <zeq1> Why does it have a minimum kernel version of 2.6.0?
Jul 26 09:28:21 <zeq1> Why is it built --without-fp?
Jul 26 09:29:00 <zeq1> I had to apply a couple of patches to get it to build with gcc47
Jul 26 09:29:02 <freemangordon> zeq1: no, we have a stripe when comment contradicts the code
Jul 26 09:29:14 <freemangordon> i.e. without !
Jul 26 09:29:34 <zeq1> isn't that how we've been running it for the last couple of weeks?
Jul 26 09:29:42 <kerio> merlin1991: could we try setting up a package in a repo that's 302ed to another web server?
Jul 26 09:30:29 <freemangordon> zeq1: the original code is without !, and it gives a stripe
Jul 26 09:31:48 <zeq1> didn't you say that's what we have been using recently/
Jul 26 09:31:49 <zeq1> ?
Jul 26 09:32:22 <freemangordon> i am not sure about recently, i was thinking your patch is always there
Jul 26 09:32:31 <freemangordon> i.e. adding !
Jul 26 09:32:49 <freemangordon> so the code to be as described in th comment
Jul 26 09:33:11 <freemangordon> without your patch we hav a stripe in portrait
Jul 26 09:35:12 <zeq1> we have to go with your testing results anyway, are you going to let romaxa know?
Jul 26 09:35:57 <zeq1> does anybody have any idea why glibc is built --without-fp and min kernel 2.6.0?
Jul 26 09:35:59 <freemangordon> zeq1: could you repeat the test on your side, just to make sure
Jul 26 09:36:08 <zeq1> freemangordon: sure
Jul 26 09:36:40 <zeq1> freemangordon: I'd better do that before I risk putting my new libc6 on my device ;)
Jul 26 09:36:58 <freemangordon> yeah :)
Jul 26 09:41:30 <zeq1> freemangordon: btw, I know you're not keen on makeing libc thumb, but my new libc is ~800K instead of 1.1M
Jul 26 09:41:55 <freemangordon> well, if it works ok, then why not
Jul 26 09:42:23 <zeq1> plus it isn't soft-float anymore and is targeted for our kernel version
Jul 26 09:42:37 <zeq1> 2.6.28 anyway
Jul 26 09:42:47 <freemangordon> what, isn't soft-float?
Jul 26 09:42:55 <freemangordon> hardfp?
Jul 26 09:43:05 <zeq1> no, glibc was built --without-fp
Jul 26 09:43:10 <freemangordon> aah, ok :)
Jul 26 09:43:24 <zeq1> it didn't use any fp internally including libm...
Jul 26 09:44:34 <zeq1> the minimum kernel version was even stranger though, the fremantle libc can't use any kernel features (syscalls) than weren't in 2.6.0
Jul 26 09:44:57 <zeq1> I wonder why they did that?
Jul 26 09:47:47 <freemangordon> NFC
Jul 26 09:48:58 * freemangordon is off
Jul 26 11:52:07 <ShadowJK> Estel_; check is RS variable is same in both
Jul 26 11:54:58 <ShadowJK> Estel_; first versions used RS=20, because 20 was a nice round number that seemed to produce sensible results
Jul 26 11:55:59 <ShadowJK> then someone with a N900 jig and lab psu tested different values and said RS=21 was closest match
Jul 26 11:56:02 <ShadowJK> so I changed it to that then
Jul 26 11:56:36 <ShadowJK> it's a 5% difference in reported rate anyway
Jul 26 12:06:12 <Macer> damnit
Jul 26 12:06:14 <Macer> gtalk seems down
Jul 26 12:06:17 <Macer> wtf
Jul 26 13:06:30 <DocScrutinizer51> timeless_: ???? long time no see
Jul 26 13:06:57 <DocScrutinizer51> hi :-D
Jul 26 13:09:46 <DocScrutinizer51> ShadowJK: the 20 also came as 2 times 10 iirc
Jul 26 13:16:06 <RiD> http://i.imgur.com/R9MBW.gif
Jul 26 13:16:09 <RiD> http://i.imgur.com/kHDU1.gif
Jul 26 13:27:21 <RST38h> Meanwhile: http://allthingsd.com/20120725/apple-google-warned-samsung-against-copying-us/
Jul 26 13:29:29 <RST38h> Also: "We want to make it as easy as possible for the 2,500 games on Steam to run on Linux as well. Its a hedging strategy. I think Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space. I think well lose some of the top-tier PC/OEMs, who will exit the market. I think margins will be destroyed for a bunch of people."
Jul 26 13:34:27 <edheldil> RST38h:  from where's the second quote?
Jul 26 13:35:25 <vi__> RiD: I like how the seagull runs outta the store with his loot after gingerly walking in.  He knew what he was doing.
Jul 26 13:35:48 <teotwaki> edheldil: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-18996377
Jul 26 13:35:58 <edheldil> I saw similar ones already - squirrels plundering vending machines, etc.. :)
Jul 26 13:36:41 <StyXman_> edheldil: most probably here: http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/07/26/1249246/why-valve-wants-to-port-games-to-linux-because-windows-8-is-a-catastrophe
Jul 26 13:37:08 <vi__> wait, does that mean half life 3 will be released on linux only??
Jul 26 13:37:12 <teotwaki> edheldil: also http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/07/26/gabe-newell-windows-8-is-a-catastrophe
Jul 26 13:38:06 <vi__> I think that would end 'doze.
Jul 26 13:38:12 <RiD> vi__ they knew the danger
Jul 26 13:39:16 <edheldil> ok, in context it makes more sense
Jul 26 13:44:16 <vi__> I remember playing CS:S through wine.
Jul 26 13:44:24 <vi__> I felt like a badass.
Jul 26 13:44:42 <vi__> ...with my 17FPS.
Jul 26 13:45:05 <teotwaki> I remember playing warcraft 3, and getting better performance through wine than was achievable natively under Windows.
Jul 26 13:45:52 <vi__> teotwaki: How is that even possible??
Jul 26 13:46:28 <ShadowJK> It's about time for another Windows Bob or Windows ME
Jul 26 13:46:31 <teotwaki> vi__: Wine Is Not (an) Emulator.
Jul 26 13:47:38 <JakDaRippa> just tried flashing my N900 several times but keep getting this message: Write failed after 0 bytes   usb_bulk_write: No error   
Jul 26 13:47:42 <vi__> was windows ME named after the disease or was the disease named after windows ME?
Jul 26 14:02:05 <zeq1> freemangordon: at least I don't have to rebuild the whole thing again after making the change!
Jul 26 14:03:43 <zeq1> anybody: what's a good benchmark to test libc6 performance?
Jul 26 14:11:35 <edheldil> that would depend on the particular function you would want to benchmark, I am afraid
Jul 26 14:12:03 <edheldil> as libc6 does not do anything in itself
Jul 26 14:14:19 <StyXman_> yeah, it's mostly a kernel<->userspace API
Jul 26 14:24:11 <zeq> freemangordon: not seeing any rotation problems with fennec unmodified from git
Jul 26 14:25:58 <zeq> Except for touch response and double-tap zoom not working very well. It feels like it grabs the page too easily.
Jul 26 14:26:52 <jonwil> Is there any actual forward movement on the idea to update microb-engine to something newer? Or is all the focus on fennec?
Jul 26 14:30:18 <kerio> jonwil: browserd is used everywhere in fremantle
Jul 26 14:30:21 <zeq> jonwil: I'm tempted to try porting the microb-engine patchset to upstream mozilla
Jul 26 14:30:32 <kerio> where "everywhere" means "in Conversations"
Jul 26 14:30:38 <jonwil> and in "maps"
Jul 26 14:31:04 <zeq> it's just I'm not sure if it's doable, and it would be a lot of work to find out.
Jul 26 14:31:31 <kerio> oh right, Maps too
Jul 26 14:31:57 <zeq> may end up with worse  performance or breakage in various apps
Jul 26 14:32:18 <kerio> well, screw Maps
Jul 26 14:32:38 <jonwil> I think the answer would be to keep the existing browser bits for conversations and maps but find a way to replace the browser in the rest of the system (e.g. bits that launch the browser via desktop URLs or the Google search widget) with Fennec or something similar
Jul 26 14:32:53 <kerio> oh god, ram
Jul 26 14:33:12 <kerio> most definetely we need a Conversations replacement
Jul 26 14:34:18 <jonwil> If telepathy (and telepathy-ring and the Maemo telepathy bits) wasnt such a mess, I might have gotten further with my "find out what stuff Conversations does so a replacement can be written" work
Jul 26 14:34:51 <kerio> haha
Jul 26 14:34:59 <kerio> wtf is telepathy-ring?
Jul 26 14:35:43 <jonwil> its the closed source module that handles calls and SMS and sits between rtcom-call-ui/rtcom-messaging-ui and the cellular services daemon
Jul 26 14:35:58 <kerio> ...it goes through telepathy?
Jul 26 14:36:01 <kerio> WHY?
Jul 26 14:36:04 <kerio> D:
Jul 26 14:36:53 <jonwil> yes SMS and calls do go through telepathy
Jul 26 14:37:00 <jonwil> as do Skype and SIP calls
Jul 26 14:37:20 <StyXman_> Macer: http://www.google.com/appsstatus#hl=en&v=issue&ts=1343357999000&iid=a6fb32beebebf8e85b0c986b09a4e69d
Jul 26 14:39:50 <kerio> hm, why is vm.swappiness 100, by default?
Jul 26 14:51:04 <zeq> jonwil: browser-switchboard lets you change the default browser
Jul 26 15:03:33 <vi__> kerio: because it is.
Jul 26 15:03:37 <vi__> DEAL WITH IT.
Jul 26 15:05:53 <vi__> I run swappiness at 96.
Jul 26 15:05:56 <vi__> Does that make you mad?
Jul 26 15:13:43 <vi__> freemangordon: ping
Jul 26 15:16:29 <vi__> merlin1991: ping
Jul 26 15:17:28 <vi__> MohammadAG: ping
Jul 26 15:18:21 <chem|st> kerio: cause you do not have 1GB ram!
Jul 26 15:18:52 <vi__> chem|st: Do you know what this '203' repository is?
Jul 26 15:19:01 <MohammadAG> vi__: Pong
Jul 26 15:19:16 <vi__> MohammadAG: hello
Jul 26 15:19:22 <MohammadAG> Heya
Jul 26 15:19:23 <chem|st> 203?
Jul 26 15:19:29 <vi__> fremantle ssu 203
Jul 26 15:19:38 <chem|st> no idea
Jul 26 15:19:39 <vi__> what is this repo, is it connected to cssu?
Jul 26 15:20:07 <zeq1> freemangordon: I think I've found out why glibc was compiled for kernel-2.6.0.  Scratchbox/qemu doesn't seem to support pselect/ppoll.
Jul 26 15:20:14 <MohammadAG> Nope
Jul 26 15:20:25 <MohammadAG> It's UK ssu repo
Jul 26 15:20:39 <chem|st> vi__: yeah ssu is nokia...
Jul 26 15:20:52 <chem|st> https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/205 for example
Jul 26 15:21:07 <vi__> there is a bunch of updates in there I have been ignoring.  Should I install them?  They have names like microb-engine-settings-203.
Jul 26 15:21:13 <vi__> Everything ends in 203.
Jul 26 15:21:52 <MohammadAG> if you have EU software then you use that repo
Jul 26 15:21:56 <chem|st> uh I never updated from those after installing cssu, it scared me off!
Jul 26 15:21:59 <MohammadAG> Or US, I'm not really sure
Jul 26 15:22:01 <zeq1> does anybody use SB2/SDK+?
Jul 26 15:22:14 <MohammadAG> Anyway, those are translation packages
Jul 26 15:22:42 <vi__> well fuck that repo then.
Jul 26 15:23:30 <vi__> Can anyone tell me how to disable the thumb repo?
Jul 26 15:24:05 <vi__> I accidentally updated a bunch of QT packages and now openmediaplayer segfaults when I try to open an internet radio stream.
Jul 26 15:24:25 <chem|st> you better reflash
Jul 26 15:24:32 <vi__> no way!
Jul 26 15:24:36 <vi__> user
Jul 26 15:24:46 <vi__> e5a3f
Jul 26 15:25:09 <chem|st> deactivate the repo and reinstall things not working from other
Jul 26 15:25:21 <vi__> That is ehat IO intend to do.
Jul 26 15:25:36 <chem|st> why are you asking then?
Jul 26 15:25:41 <vi__> Does fremantle use /etc/apt/sources.list like a normal debian?
Jul 26 15:26:06 <vi__> chem|st: I always try to second guess my own noobery.
Jul 26 15:27:21 <vi__> why will modest not die when I kill the process?
Jul 26 15:28:34 <FIQ> (17:25:43) (vi__) Does fremantle use /etc/apt/sources.list like a normal debian?
Jul 26 15:28:40 <FIQ> no
Jul 26 15:29:00 <FIQ> well, "normal" apt might, but HAM use something else
Jul 26 15:29:36 <jonwil> everything goes through /etc/apt/sources.list.d AFAIK
Jul 26 15:30:07 <kerio> HAM sets his own repos in a file in /etc/apt/sources.list.d
Jul 26 15:38:42 <vi__> Reinstallation of libqt4-maemo5 is not possible, it cannot be downloaded
Jul 26 15:38:45 <vi__> dafuq
Jul 26 15:39:39 <freemangordon> vi__: thanks to merlin1991's repo, which holds only the latest version ;)
Jul 26 15:40:08 <freemangordon> vi__: why  libqt4-maemo5 is missing?
Jul 26 15:40:22 <vi__> It is not.
Jul 26 15:40:39 <freemangordon> what then?
Jul 26 15:40:40 <vi__> I accidentally updated a bunch of qt4 packages from thumb repo,
Jul 26 15:40:50 <freemangordon> thumb4?
Jul 26 15:40:51 <vi__> now OMP is broken and sefaults.
Jul 26 15:41:18 <freemangordon> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1242643&postcount=453
Jul 26 15:41:20 <freemangordon> :P
Jul 26 15:41:48 <vi__> So I have disabled merlins repo and am trying to install reinstall libqt4 packages
Jul 26 15:42:00 <freemangordon> hmm, works like charm here
Jul 26 15:42:01 <vi__> Except it says they cannot be downloaded.
Jul 26 15:42:27 <vi__> freemangordon: So you are running the latest from merlins repo and OMP still works?
Jul 26 15:42:37 <freemangordon> yep
Jul 26 15:42:51 <freemangordon> merlin1991's thumb repo
Jul 26 15:42:59 <freemangordon> I am planning an update later
Jul 26 15:43:15 <zeq1> vi__: did you upgrade all the libqt4 pkgs?
Jul 26 15:43:19 <freemangordon> vi__: which libstdc++ version you have installed?
Jul 26 15:43:40 <vi__> freemangordon: And what happens if you try to launch an internet radio statio from your list of radio stations.  No crash?
Jul 26 15:43:48 <zeq1> freemangordon: it should have a hard dep on the right libstdc++
Jul 26 15:43:51 <freemangordon> lemme check
Jul 26 15:44:06 <freemangordon> zeq1: it has
Jul 26 15:44:17 <zeq1> crashed? or a hard dep? ;)
Jul 26 15:44:18 <vi__> zeq1:  ldconfig -v | grep libst          libstdc++.so.6 -> libstdc++.so.6.0.16
Jul 26 15:44:24 <freemangordon> hard dep
Jul 26 15:44:29 <zeq1> ok :)
Jul 26 15:44:45 <freemangordon> vi__: dpkg -l | grep libstdc++ ?
Jul 26 15:45:12 <vi__>  4.6.2+cssu0 
Jul 26 15:45:20 <freemangordon> zeq1: see ^^^
Jul 26 15:45:35 <vi__> I have ballsed up ahv'nt I...
Jul 26 15:45:42 <zeq1> or I have ;)
Jul 26 15:45:54 <freemangordon> zeq1: no, that's the old one
Jul 26 15:46:10 <freemangordon> it should be 4.7.2-cssu0
Jul 26 15:46:19 <freemangordon> vi__: enable thumb repo
Jul 26 15:46:25 <freemangordon> do apt-get upgrade
Jul 26 15:46:29 <freemangordon> oops
Jul 26 15:46:34 <freemangordon> apt-get update
Jul 26 15:46:47 <vi__> already on it.
Jul 26 15:46:54 <freemangordon> and tell me which packages apt-get upgrade wants to install
Jul 26 15:47:04 <freemangordon> install/upgrade
Jul 26 15:47:22 <vi__> apt-get upgrade
Jul 26 15:47:34 <vi__> ffs wrong xterm
Jul 26 15:47:37 <freemangordon> zeq1: somehow vi__ managed to install qt-thumb4 without puling the dependencies
Jul 26 15:47:49 <vi__>  espeak espeak-data espeak-extra-data libespeak libgcc1 libqt4-core    libqt4-dbus libqt4-declarative libqt4-gui libqt4-maemo5 libqt4-multimedia    libqt4-network libqt4-opengl libqt4-phonon libqt4-script libqt4-sql    libqt4-sql-sqlite libqt4-svg libqt4-test libqt4-translations libqt4-webkit    libqt4-xml libqt4-xmlpatterns libsdl-mixer1.2 libstdc++6
Jul 26 15:47:57 <zeq1> that shouldn't be possible
Jul 26 15:48:04 <zeq1> unless he used dpkg -i
Jul 26 15:48:04 <freemangordon> see ^^^
Jul 26 15:48:16 <zeq1> oh I see
Jul 26 15:48:23 <freemangordon> vi__: how did you manage to do that?
Jul 26 15:48:23 <vi__> zeq1: a lot of people say that top me.
Jul 26 15:48:32 <vi__> freemangordon: I literally have no idea.
Jul 26 15:48:37 <freemangordon> :D
Jul 26 15:48:56 <freemangordon> vi__: libsdl-mixer1.2?
Jul 26 15:49:00 <zeq1> well libstdc++6 is in the upgrade list at least
Jul 26 15:49:04 <freemangordon> do you have extras-devel enabled?
Jul 26 15:49:12 <vi__> freemangordon: ...yes.
Jul 26 15:49:13 <zeq1> what are the deps on libqt4-*
Jul 26 15:49:15 <freemangordon> or extras-testing?
Jul 26 15:49:19 <vi__> ...yes
Jul 26 15:49:27 <freemangordon> aaah, disable that shit
Jul 26 15:50:12 <freemangordon> thatnks to marmitz or whatever was the guy's name we have libstdc++ ang libgcc1 4.6.1 in extras-devel
Jul 26 15:50:12 <vi__> espeak-extra-data libgcc1 libqt4-core libqt4-dbus libqt4-declarative    libqt4-gui libqt4-maemo5 libqt4-multimedia libqt4-network libqt4-opengl    libqt4-phonon libqt4-script libqt4-sql libqt4-sql-sqlite libqt4-svg    libqt4-test libqt4-translations libqt4-webkit libqt4-xml libqt4-xmlpatterns    libstdc++6
Jul 26 15:50:40 <vi__> So devel can actually braek your device now.
Jul 26 15:50:43 <vi__> Finally.
Jul 26 15:51:02 <freemangordon> could you do apt-get install libstdc++ and tell me which version it wants to install?
Jul 26 15:51:36 <freemangordon> it should pull libgcc1 as well
Jul 26 15:51:47 <freemangordon> vi__: ^^^
Jul 26 15:52:08 <zeq1> what epoch are the libgcc and libstdc++ in devel?
Jul 26 15:52:17 <freemangordon> zeq1: NFC
Jul 26 15:52:25 <zeq1> that could be the problem?
Jul 26 15:52:28 <vi__> It does not tell me the version, however it is the version from merlins repo as it complains it is not authenticated,
Jul 26 15:52:50 <freemangordon> well, you may boldly do apt-get upgrade
Jul 26 15:52:56 <zeq1> vi__: I suspect the problem is we made sure we stuck to the versioning convention for fremantle
Jul 26 15:53:11 <zeq1> it's possible what's in -devel has a higher epoch
Jul 26 15:53:19 <freemangordon> vi__: just tell me how much disk space will be freed
Jul 26 15:53:46 <guly> twitter-sharing-multi anyone?
Jul 26 15:53:48 <vi__> Need to get 481kB of archives.  After this operation, 1114kB of additional disk space will be used.
Jul 26 15:53:49 <freemangordon> zeq1: you check in repo
Jul 26 15:54:35 <freemangordon> s/check/could check/
Jul 26 15:54:37 <infobot> freemangordon meant: zeq1: you could check in repo
Jul 26 15:54:42 <vi__> well it has not exploded in fire yet.
Jul 26 15:54:51 <zeq1> freemangordon: I would but I need to go do some shopping before my girlfriend gets home!
Jul 26 15:54:59 <freemangordon> :)
Jul 26 15:55:09 <freemangordon> vi__: reboot?
Jul 26 15:55:11 <vi__> s/shopping/pr0n/
Jul 26 15:55:23 <freemangordon> hehe
Jul 26 15:55:28 <zeq1> hehe
Jul 26 15:55:58 <vi__> rebooting
Jul 26 15:55:59 <freemangordon> vi__: did you reboot the device?
Jul 26 15:56:01 <freemangordon> ok
Jul 26 15:56:42 <freemangordon> is there a handshake? :P
Jul 26 15:56:59 <vi__> freemangordon: I removed that video thing a LONG time ago.
Jul 26 15:57:12 <vi__> boots fine...
Jul 26 15:57:24 <freemangordon> but why, it is so cute :D
Jul 26 15:57:54 <vi__> I much prefer a faster boot up time.
Jul 26 15:58:36 <vi__> I literally owe you a pizza.
Jul 26 15:58:57 <freemangordon> hmm, those 1MB of extra data could come from espeak-extra-data 
Jul 26 15:59:20 <freemangordon> 1114kB of additional disk space that is
Jul 26 15:59:25 <vi__> It is F* annoying that the person who packaged espeak made it depend on espeak extra.
Jul 26 15:59:44 <vi__> I do not need russian AND chinese,
Jul 26 15:59:56 <freemangordon> vi__: you owe me hookers and boze a long time ago :P
Jul 26 16:00:21 <freemangordon> s/boze/booze/
Jul 26 16:00:25 <infobot> freemangordon meant: vi__: you owe me hookers and booze a long time ago :P
Jul 26 16:00:59 <freemangordon> vi__: how is the memory usage?
Jul 26 16:01:10 <freemangordon> any changes?
Jul 26 16:01:46 <vi__> 1 sec
Jul 26 16:03:43 <vi__> hard to tell
Jul 26 16:04:12 <freemangordon> yeah
Jul 26 16:04:19 <vi__> usr/sbin/browserd -s 1870 -n RTComMessagingServer
Jul 26 16:04:29 <vi__> Is still hogging it like a fat schoolchild.
Jul 26 16:04:59 <freemangordon> I will appreciate if someone find a way to measure how much RAM we actually gain from thumb thingie
Jul 26 16:05:37 <kerio> freemangordon: hm, how can you wreck your device by using -devel's libgcc?
Jul 26 16:06:11 <freemangordon> qt in -thumb needs 4.7.2, extras-devel has 4.6.1
Jul 26 16:06:12 <vi__> freemangordon: It is hard to quantify.
Jul 26 16:06:29 <freemangordon> vi__: if possible at all
Jul 26 16:06:48 <kerio> i see
Jul 26 16:06:58 <kerio> freemangordon: and why doesn't qt in -thumb depend on >=4.7.2? >:)
Jul 26 16:07:04 <freemangordon> it depends
Jul 26 16:07:58 <DocScrutinizer51> it depends if it depends if it depends or not
Jul 26 16:08:17 <DocScrutinizer51> :-p
Jul 26 16:08:34 <RiD> wha
Jul 26 16:08:38 <freemangordon> Package: libqt4-core
Jul 26 16:08:44 <freemangordon> Depends: libc6 (>= 2.5.0-1), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.7.2), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.14.6-1osso1), libstdc++6 (>= 4.7.2), zlib1g (>= 1:1.2.1), kernel-feature-errata-430973-workaround [armel]
Jul 26 16:09:00 <kerio> then how can you install the new libqt4-core without having libgcc1 4.7.2?
Jul 26 16:09:29 <freemangordon> vi__ is a *nix guru and managed to do it without knowing how :P
Jul 26 16:10:32 <vi__> freemangordon: my mother used to say I could brake a blacksmiths anvil.
Jul 26 16:10:53 <kerio> well, how fast would the anvil be going?
Jul 26 16:10:53 <freemangordon> hehe
Jul 26 16:11:21 <freemangordon> anyway, I am back to re-compiling microb-engine
Jul 26 16:11:34 <kerio> yay
Jul 26 16:11:48 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer51: do we have a list of microb-engine CVEs
Jul 26 16:11:49 <freemangordon> ?
Jul 26 16:13:23 <freemangordon> nevermind, i found them
Jul 26 16:14:42 <RiD> so you're working on thumb microb?
Jul 26 16:15:05 <freemangordon> working? it is in thumb repo already
Jul 26 16:15:23 <freemangordon> but we have open bugs against CSSU
Jul 26 16:15:42 <freemangordon> going to fix them (the bugs are along with the fixes)
Jul 26 16:22:25 <kerio> no TLS makes me a sad panda :c
Jul 26 17:43:18 <LeshaShtamp> ���� ���? there is someone ?
Jul 26 17:43:57 <beford> ñò
Jul 26 18:06:09 <saidinesh5> hey fellows
Jul 26 18:06:18 <saidinesh5> i was wondering if anyone could suggest me a good app name for a port of elFinder.org to N9
Jul 26 18:06:29 <saidinesh5> (and N900 eventually, when i get it fixed)
Jul 26 18:11:34 <DocScrutinizer51> freemangordon: NFC
Jul 26 18:11:52 <DocScrutinizer51> even
Jul 26 18:12:01 <DocScrutinizer51> ~wtf cve
Jul 26 18:12:03 <infobot> Gee...  I don't know what cve means... 
Jul 26 18:12:59 <freemangordon> security vulnerabilities and exposures.
Jul 26 18:13:24 <teotwaki> how the fuck do you go from Cve to Security?!
Jul 26 18:13:32 <freemangordon> s/security/common/
Jul 26 18:13:33 <infobot> freemangordon meant: common vulnerabilities and exposures.
Jul 26 18:13:43 <teotwaki> exploits?
Jul 26 18:13:54 <freemangordon> segfaults :)
Jul 26 18:14:14 <freemangordon> buffer overruns, stack overflows, etc, etc
Jul 26 18:22:10 <beford> cwe
Jul 26 18:29:29 <Raimu> freemangordon: The stuff I updated last night seem to work well.
Jul 26 18:31:29 <freemangordon> good
Jul 26 18:34:44 <freemangordon> Woody14619: ping
Jul 26 18:41:41 <Estel_> freemangordon, neither Councilor is usually available on IRc now, so you may be better sending them mail to council@maemo.org
Jul 26 18:41:58 <Woody14619> speak for yourself Estel_
Jul 26 18:42:05 <freemangordon> hehe
Jul 26 18:42:12 <Estel_> ouh, sorry - It was based on experiences from past week :)
Jul 26 18:42:21 <Estel_> no malicious intentions, so hold Your horses.
Jul 26 18:42:24 <Woody14619> But yes, generally sending to council@maemo.org is as expedient.
Jul 26 18:42:55 <Woody14619> Especially on weekends, as I'm not here then.  What's up freemangordon?
Jul 26 18:44:15 <RiDv2> hey, is it possible to screw up usb hostmode hardware wise?
Jul 26 18:45:17 <Estel_> sure, jsut torn apart Your usb port. although, you probably have something else in mind?
Jul 26 18:45:24 <RiDv2> like it would still work while charging or transfering data on pc
Jul 26 18:45:39 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer is the man to ask, I would answer "no"
Jul 26 18:46:13 <RiDv2> ok. it's what I also think (you either screw it all or don't), but i'll wait DocScrutinizer 's opinion
Jul 26 18:46:22 <Estel_> sounds sane
Jul 26 18:46:43 <RiDv2> mostly i think i fudged up something on the usb to usb thingie that i ripped from an old motherboard
Jul 26 18:47:08 <RiDv2> but i don't have another to try so that's why i'm wondering
Jul 26 18:48:47 <RiD> didn't realize I had mirc open on PC
Jul 26 19:28:50 <user___> Estel_: ping
Jul 26 19:31:17 <Estel_> pong
Jul 26 19:31:20 <Estel_> vi_, 
Jul 26 19:31:30 <vi_> yo estel.
Jul 26 19:31:51 <vi_> or should I say:
Jul 26 19:31:54 <vi_> cze!
Jul 26 19:32:02 <Estel_> no, you definitelly shouldn't ;p
Jul 26 19:32:23 <vi_> jestem kapusta!?
Jul 26 19:32:24 <Estel_> what's up?
Jul 26 19:32:31 <vi_> to jest booragh?
Jul 26 19:32:40 <Estel_> whatever you mean;)
Jul 26 19:32:42 <vi_> i give up
Jul 26 19:32:51 <vi_> how do I change the name on the prompt for ED?
Jul 26 19:32:58 <vi_> it says m5estel.
Jul 26 19:33:04 <Estel_> prompt? title of xterm status bar?
Jul 26 19:33:15 <vi_> I have changed the host.conf but it does not work.
Jul 26 19:33:16 <Estel_> dafuq?
Jul 26 19:33:22 <vi_> command prompt.
Jul 26 19:33:30 <vi_> /bin/sh
Jul 26 19:33:34 <Estel_> 0_o
Jul 26 19:33:45 <japh> what does ed has to do with hosts.conf
Jul 26 19:34:05 <Estel_> vi_, no idea, I don't have anything like that. I(f everyone have it, qole must have set it
Jul 26 19:34:23 <Estel_> if no, it is your subconscious skill again
Jul 26 19:34:43 <vi_> I like my prompt to be:
Jul 26 19:34:46 <vi_> export PS1='\[\e[1;34m\]\w\[\e[m\] \[\e[1;32m\]\$\[\e[m\] \[\e[1;37m\]'
Jul 26 19:35:12 <vi_> however ED does not read my .profile or bashrc
Jul 26 19:35:24 <vi_> instead it shows:
Jul 26 19:35:57 <vi_> [\u@m5estel: \w]
Jul 26 19:36:14 <vi_> and I cannot figure out why this is set this way.
Jul 26 19:36:32 <vi_> I assumed as it was your name, you put it there.
Jul 26 19:36:43 <vi_> Do you understand what I mean?
Jul 26 19:36:43 <japh> there's no host in your PS1 at all
Jul 26 19:36:50 <japh> and that's set in /etc/profile* something
Jul 26 19:37:01 <vi_> japh: I know.
Jul 26 19:37:22 <vi_> I do not want host name in my PS1.
Jul 26 19:37:39 <japh> aha
Jul 26 19:38:28 <japh>  /etc/bash.bashrc ?
Jul 26 19:39:12 <vi_> japh: /etc/profile
Jul 26 19:39:24 <vi_> I did not even know this existed!
Jul 26 19:40:02 <vi_> I will edit it to run the .profile of whomever summoned the chroot.
Jul 26 19:40:13 <japh> vi_, yes I was equally frustrated because there's a ton of shit.profile files in /etc/
Jul 26 19:40:20 <japh> and all of them were linked together in a total mess
Jul 26 19:41:10 <vi_> japh: in harmattan it is even worse.
Jul 26 19:41:53 <japh> it was easier for me to figure out there at least
Jul 26 19:42:04 <japh> but maybe that was because at least I got bash4
Jul 26 19:42:27 <vi_> ash!
Jul 26 19:42:30 <vi_> w00t
Jul 26 19:44:22 <japh> but I have broken my n950 again
Jul 26 19:44:31 <japh> I think it's fifth time this month
Jul 26 19:44:34 <japh> yaaaaaawn
Jul 26 19:45:05 <japh> don't remember exactly what I did last night
Jul 26 19:49:15 <vi_> japh: have you get easy debian running on your n950?
Jul 26 19:49:24 <japh> no
Jul 26 19:49:28 <japh> have anyone?
Jul 26 19:49:40 <vi_> I think qole did
Jul 26 19:50:00 <vi_> how come .profile will not run like a script?
Jul 26 19:50:31 <japh> hm?
Jul 26 19:50:48 <japh> assumingly it starts with a check to see if your shell is interactive
Jul 26 19:54:07 <vi_> well it seems it does NOT run /etc/profile
Jul 26 19:54:09 <vi_> FFS
Jul 26 19:57:26 <vi_> WTF is with women wanting to watch totally fucking gay movies?
Jul 26 19:57:29 <DocScrutinizer05> RiD: define "screw up hostmode"
Jul 26 19:59:38 <freemangordon> zeq: what will happen if I don;t add optimize flags to LD_FLAGS when using LTO?
Jul 26 20:18:05 <Estel_> vi_, as for ed in harmattan, it works, but with capacitive screen, it sucks big time
Jul 26 20:18:10 <Estel_> i.e. You canb't do anything with it
Jul 26 20:18:24 <Estel_> I have no idea, maybe there is some mouse mode, so You could use it with mouse and keyboard
Jul 26 20:18:33 <Estel_> ~rape inventer of capacitive screens
Jul 26 20:19:17 <Estel_> no, seriously, what's the sue for multitouch, if I need to scroll 4x times to get desired effect
Jul 26 20:19:21 <Estel_> or push button 7 times
Jul 26 20:19:44 <Estel_> of course there are idiots, who claim "n950/N9 screen is much more sensitive and precise than N900's one", oh well
Jul 26 20:20:11 <japh> my fingers surely are incompatible with it
Jul 26 20:20:29 <Estel_> of course some smartie decided, that area less than 15 mm detected must be error, so it's ignored - Coating Your stylus in conductive layer doesn't help
Jul 26 20:20:35 <Estel_> unless it's tip is 15 mm in diameter
Jul 26 20:20:57 <Estel_> so You're totally screwed, when need precision, instead of clicking iphone-sized buttons
Jul 26 20:21:15 <Estel_> really, capacitive screen is even more WTF than lack of microSD
Jul 26 20:21:34 <Estel_> even for games, where multitouch sounds essential, it sucks big time
Jul 26 20:21:57 <japh> is multitouch that I'm supposed to use even more fingers?
Jul 26 20:22:04 <japh> please don't give me that 
Jul 26 20:22:12 <Estel_> can't tell how many times, when playing gof2, pressing on "rocket/bomb" button wasn't registered
Jul 26 20:22:26 <Estel_> well, it's why You must do idiotic "pitch to zoom" gesture
Jul 26 20:22:35 <Estel_> instead of being able to zoom in/our browser via volume buttons
Jul 26 20:22:59 <Estel_> s/in/our/in/out/
Jul 26 20:23:07 <Estel_> whatever
Jul 26 20:23:07 <japh> handling the fennec ui is a bitch with my fingers
Jul 26 20:23:17 <Estel_>  /rant
Jul 26 20:23:24 <Estel_> not only Yours
Jul 26 20:23:26 <japh> maybe I should fetch a stylus if there's something that works
Jul 26 20:23:40 <Estel_> handling anything except iphone brainless buttons is bitchy with capacitive
Jul 26 20:23:59 <Estel_> japh, You can DIY capacitive stylus, but, experience is rather miserable
Jul 26 20:24:07 <RST38h> this only means you have to surgically modify your fingers
Jul 26 20:24:14 <japh> I haven't used anything else I think, the one I got prior to n900 was the one that was bundled with 3310
Jul 26 20:24:15 <Estel_> it have to be close in size to Your fingers, anyway |(at least it's tip)
Jul 26 20:24:26 <japh> hms
Jul 26 20:24:42 <Estel_> precise capacitive screen is a oxy-moron
Jul 26 20:24:50 <Estel_> also called O2moron
Jul 26 20:25:05 <Estel_> or moron oxidization
Jul 26 20:25:25 <RiD> DocScrutinizer My N900 is not detecting any pens, mouse or keyboards that it was previously detecting using h-e-n. Didn't change a thing. It's either something screwed up on the N900 (but it still works when charging and when transferring data from and to the computer) or something related with the USB "thing" 
Jul 26 20:25:34 <Estel_> I admire N950's TFT being much less power hungry - twice less than N900's - but digitizer is...
Jul 26 20:25:51 <japh> one I get ratpoison working on n950 as well this problem will be no more
Jul 26 20:25:52 <Estel_> RiD, dmesg output when tryijng to connect things via hen?
Jul 26 20:26:03 <Estel_> in hen, you can activate iot via "kernel messages"
Jul 26 20:26:15 <Estel_> ratpoison? what it is?
Jul 26 20:26:18 <Estel_> is it*
Jul 26 20:26:20 <japh> a wm 
Jul 26 20:26:27 <Estel_> yyy?
Jul 26 20:26:45 <japh> http://i.japh.se/n900/n900-rp.png
Jul 26 20:26:49 <japh> can you see that pic?
Jul 26 20:27:06 <Estel_> sure. wtf is that?
Jul 26 20:27:08 <RiD> ehh Estel_, which part is the most recent?
Jul 26 20:27:10 <RiD> The top or bottom?
Jul 26 20:27:16 <Estel_> one at bottom
Jul 26 20:27:17 <Estel_> but
Jul 26 20:27:20 <Estel_> it's not real-time updated
Jul 26 20:27:22 <japh> that is ratpoison
Jul 26 20:27:26 <Estel_> it's snapshot of moment when you activate it
Jul 26 20:27:43 <Estel_> japh, nice, but I still don't know what the fuck?
Jul 26 20:28:18 <Estel_> border-less windows, or what?
Jul 26 20:28:21 <japh> estel_, I basicly just want to get as much screen space as possible for my vims
Jul 26 20:28:30 <Estel_> I see
Jul 26 20:28:35 <RiD> ok
Jul 26 20:28:40 <Estel_> but how it is related to capacitive hell?
Jul 26 20:28:41 <japh> and I don't want to use my fingers because it's driving me mad
Jul 26 20:28:45 <Estel_> ah
Jul 26 20:28:48 <japh> because you don't have to use it 
Jul 26 20:28:56 <RiD> so uhh
Jul 26 20:28:58 <Estel_> one solution, would be to program using N950's screen as notebook touchpad
Jul 26 20:29:02 <Estel_> You know the idea
Jul 26 20:29:15 <japh> hehe
Jul 26 20:29:25 <Estel_> it would be quite useful lfo real things like easy debian
Jul 26 20:30:23 <RiD> err, there are many messages saying device not accepting address 40, error -19
Jul 26 20:30:30 <japh> well I do hope there'll be better alternatives at some point in the future
Jul 26 20:30:43 <japh> for installing 'real' os's I mean
Jul 26 20:30:46 <DocScrutinizer05> RiD: I dunno >the USB "thing" <
Jul 26 20:31:06 <RiD> DocScrutinizer it's like A male to A Male usb cable
Jul 26 20:31:12 <Estel_> RiD, Your device is just not enumerated probperly
Jul 26 20:31:12 <RiD> but it's from a motherboard, so it has no cable between at all
Jul 26 20:31:18 <Estel_> follow HEN instructions, *slowly*
Jul 26 20:31:24 <Estel_> i.e. 2-3 seconds between every step
Jul 26 20:31:33 <Estel_> btw, full-speed may work better for you
Jul 26 20:31:35 <japh> you have to bruteforce
Jul 26 20:31:36 <Estel_> than high speed
Jul 26 20:31:37 <japh> don't give up
Jul 26 20:32:21 <Estel_> unfortunately, high speeds seems to fail for hubs, until you have some high-speed device connected to it,. before enumerating
Jul 26 20:32:26 <Estel_> i.e. put pendrive inside hub
Jul 26 20:32:29 <Estel_> before enumerating
Jul 26 20:32:45 <Estel_> I have one such hubb- it's perfectly working 2.0 one, but without something 2.0 attached to it, i must enumerate it as full-spoeed in hen
Jul 26 20:32:53 <Estel_> no big deal, when You want to connect mouse and keyboard
Jul 26 20:32:55 <RiD> hm
Jul 26 20:32:59 <RiD> on full speed it detected the pen
Jul 26 20:33:02 <Estel_> BTw, DocScrutinizer will ask "wtf" for sure
Jul 26 20:33:06 <Estel_> I have no idea, too
Jul 26 20:33:12 <Estel_> it may be hub-related
Jul 26 20:33:18 <RiD> DataTraveler G2, manufacturer Kingston and and the serial number, etc
Jul 26 20:33:27 <Estel_> yea
Jul 26 20:33:29 <Estel_> try on high speed
Jul 26 20:33:32 <RiD> but it's refusing to mount :<
Jul 26 20:33:32 <Estel_> now
Jul 26 20:33:36 <RiD> Ok
Jul 26 20:33:36 <Estel_> it isn't
Jul 26 20:33:44 <RiD> I don't know what, it used to be pretty straightforward
Jul 26 20:33:47 <Estel_> with latest cssu testing and kernel-power you don't mount manually
Jul 26 20:33:50 <Estel_> ke-recv does it for you
Jul 26 20:33:58 <Estel_> mount button in hen is obsolete
Jul 26 20:33:59 <RiD> oh
Jul 26 20:34:09 <Estel_> maybe even in cssu-stable, I don't know, I use testing (and soon thumb) only
Jul 26 20:34:30 <RiD> i'm using testing too
Jul 26 20:34:30 <Estel_> with cssu-testing your pendrive is mounted already, if it enumerated properly
Jul 26 20:34:46 <RiD> i'm trying now on high speed
Jul 26 20:34:57 <Estel_> rep[ort back, but I got feeling it will fail :P
Jul 26 20:35:14 <RiD> not possible to connect, no file system available. That's the generic error pop up
Jul 26 20:35:15 <Estel_> high-speed is somehow unfinished on HEN *warniong, personal unjustified by hard-proofs opinion*
Jul 26 20:35:17 <RiD> (in portuguese tho)
Jul 26 20:35:25 <Estel_> I doubt I don't have skills to debug it properly
Jul 26 20:35:51 <Estel_> but in my almost-every-day usage practice, it's working much less reliably than full;-speed, and I ensured peripherials (adaptor, cables) quality
Jul 26 20:36:00 <Estel_> I'm 1005 sure that they're not limiting factor for hostmode
Jul 26 20:36:02 <RiD> I doubt I Don't have skills
Jul 26 20:36:08 <RiD> isn't that saying that you DO have skills?
Jul 26 20:36:15 <Estel_> it's just that high-speed sometimes refuses to work, no matter what, while 5 minutes later it may work
Jul 26 20:36:33 <Estel_> well, I tried, but haven't found anything interesting in syslog
Jul 26 20:36:38 <RiD> well, keyboard used to connect with no problems then on one day it stopped connecting. And never again
Jul 26 20:36:48 <Estel_> it's just like "I want to work today" or "I don't want today, I got headache"
Jul 26 20:37:00 <Estel_> sounds familiar, somehow
Jul 26 20:37:24 <Estel_> I'm sure You can make it connect again by trying on different speeds
Jul 26 20:37:33 <Estel_> BTW, remember - keyboards, mouses - low speed, or full-speed, at most
Jul 26 20:37:44 <Estel_> don't use high speed when not needed, if not for power-save purposes
Jul 26 20:37:45 <RiD> it's refusing to
Jul 26 20:37:48 * RiD cries like a little girl
Jul 26 20:38:05 <Estel_> either it's broken, but if it works with desktop it's not
Jul 26 20:38:18 <Estel_> from my experience, it will, You just need to slow a little between steps
Jul 26 20:38:28 <Estel_> also, are Yuo sure it is not enumerated?
Jul 26 20:38:52 <Estel_> if it's enumerated, and still doesn't work, it's not hostmode problem, rather something screwed with Your instalation of extkbd
Jul 26 20:39:29 <Estel_> still, I love hostmode on N900, despite ocassional problems
Jul 26 20:39:40 <DocScrutinizer05> h-e-n highspeed is kinda flaky. USB highspeed is a botch
Jul 26 20:39:54 <Estel_> for example, every time I demonstrate someone that my N900 is true computer, via connecting it to big screen, then to USB huband keyboard/mouse...
Jul 26 20:39:58 <RiD> now it doesn't detect the pen at all
Jul 26 20:39:59 <RiD> lol
Jul 26 20:40:03 <Estel_> I need to do it few times, cause first one fails for some twisted reasons :p
Jul 26 20:40:11 <DocScrutinizer05> it enumerates in pseudo ful spped mode, then  sends chirps and whatnot, to establish highspeed
Jul 26 20:40:25 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, hm
Jul 26 20:40:42 <Estel_> so my "from practice" unjustified experiences, that high-speed is much more problematic, may be justified after all?
Jul 26 20:40:59 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Jul 26 20:41:05 <Estel_> BTw, i'm not depreciating it, It works for me fine, all after all, just give strange problems sometimes
Jul 26 20:41:16 <Estel_> I'm still blessing everyone involved in bringing it for us
Jul 26 20:41:18 <vi_> japh: dwn2>ratpoison
Jul 26 20:41:30 <vi_> ^dwm2
Jul 26 20:41:35 <RiD> well i'll charge the phone. No success today. Let's hope tomorrow my N900 will be in a better mood
Jul 26 20:41:41 <Estel_> hehe
Jul 26 20:41:57 <Estel_> Maybe You should get a girlfriend, N900 may become jealous
Jul 26 20:42:30 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: once you have an established high speed connection, though, it's fine, right?
Jul 26 20:42:45 <RiD> Estel_ the problem is that my N900 IS my only girlfriend
Jul 26 20:42:46 <Estel_> kerio, from practice, most of the time if it works, it works rox solid
Jul 26 20:42:50 <RiD> and even she complains. Sigh
Jul 26 20:42:55 <Estel_> RiD, exactly. Get her a competition
Jul 26 20:43:06 <RiD> Must be the blown up speaker.
Jul 26 20:43:15 <Estel_> how You managed to do that?
Jul 26 20:43:16 <RiD> That's why she refuses to work, I muted her
Jul 26 20:43:18 <RiD> *whahahah*
Jul 26 20:43:21 <vi_> how to stop squirals stealing the nuts from my bird feeder??
Jul 26 20:43:31 <Estel_> vi_, buy a cat
Jul 26 20:43:41 <Estel_> it will fix both squirals and birds problems
Jul 26 20:43:43 <Estel_> at once
Jul 26 20:43:43 <RiD> this is not a pet channel lol
Jul 26 20:44:09 <vi_> how to de-gause my snake?
Jul 26 20:44:21 <RiD> Estel_ well, to start with, the earpiece got fudged after one year. Nope, did nothing harsh to her. Infact, it was in very good condition apart from the slightly weared out keyboard (nails, fu)
Jul 26 20:44:24 <kerio> RiD: you could try kp51 and usbmode
Jul 26 20:44:26 <Estel_> combine it with garden snake
Jul 26 20:44:51 <Estel_> kerio, wtf?
Jul 26 20:45:06 <kerio> re:usb
Jul 26 20:45:19 <RiD> Estel_ and the speaker (right one), well that was when I took a look at android. 
Jul 26 20:45:19 <vi_> no, the snake.
Jul 26 20:45:25 <Estel_> and what do you think he is doing?
Jul 26 20:45:29 <Estel_> hostmode without kp?
Jul 26 20:45:36 <Estel_> ough
Jul 26 20:45:41 <vi_> he just hides under his rock mostly.
Jul 26 20:45:42 <Estel_> RiD, you know reason
Jul 26 20:45:44 <RiD> Was trying some applications, started media player and after some time i noticed speakers had better sound
Jul 26 20:45:48 <RiD> little bit after it died
Jul 26 20:46:04 <freemangordon> what kerio is saying is to use the new SW from Pali instead of HEN
Jul 26 20:46:16 <freemangordon> kerio: agree?
Jul 26 20:46:23 <kerio> mango
Jul 26 20:46:29 <Estel_> RiD, when I started, I planned to test nitdroid to. Then, during usage and while doing more important things ojn N900, i noticed that I don't need to
Jul 26 20:46:37 <Estel_> as android doesn't have anything of interest for me ;)
Jul 26 20:46:48 <Estel_> i.e. nothing I couldn't do on n900, and do it better
Jul 26 20:46:56 <RiD> I wanted to try some applications, nothing outstanding
Jul 26 20:47:00 <RiD> Didn't come out that well uh
Jul 26 20:47:14 <RiD> Then i was stupid enough to arrive LATE with the warranty
Jul 26 20:47:14 <Estel_> well, maybe if I would want to play X-Plane helicopter, but it would be a) overkill b) it's laminar research fail an yway, the could release for webos too ;)
Jul 26 20:47:25 <RiD> i thought it would end up in august. It ended in june
Jul 26 20:47:31 <RiD> ._.
Jul 26 20:47:37 <Estel_> freemangordon, usb software?
Jul 26 20:47:44 <Estel_> I'm really out of loop still
Jul 26 20:47:53 <RiD> Nokia can repair the speaker and earpiece for 20€~30€ .
Jul 26 20:48:01 <Estel_> RiD, why won't You replace speaker? they're cheap
Jul 26 20:48:03 <kerio> Estel_: the latest kernel-power has a module for charging and usb hostmode
Jul 26 20:48:18 <kerio> and there's a matching GUI
Jul 26 20:48:18 <RiD> they are. Shipping isn't. And I never disassembled a phone
Jul 26 20:48:19 <Estel_> yea, io know about charging, hostmode one missed me
Jul 26 20:48:20 <RiD> not intentionally
Jul 26 20:48:27 <RiD> I would fudge
Jul 26 20:48:35 <Estel_> RiD, but with N900, it's a piece of cake
Jul 26 20:48:39 <Estel_> can You unscrew 6 screws?
Jul 26 20:48:52 <RiD> Estel_ the speaker seems easy, the earpiece don't
Jul 26 20:48:53 <Estel_> and watch Youtube video?:P
Jul 26 20:48:53 <RiD> doesn't*
Jul 26 20:49:01 <Estel_> earpiece as in screen part?
Jul 26 20:49:02 <freemangordon> Estel_: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85658
Jul 26 20:49:04 <RiD> yes
Jul 26 20:49:09 <RiD> the one used for calls
Jul 26 20:49:19 <RiD> that one works but the sound is all distorted
Jul 26 20:49:23 <Estel_> little more complicated, yet doable for someone without experience, with enough care and watcyhing dissasembling video
Jul 26 20:49:36 <RiD> it's like boosting a crappy mp3 volume software-wise
Jul 26 20:49:40 <RiD> too much and it will sound like cra
Jul 26 20:49:42 <Estel_> thanks, freemangordon
Jul 26 20:50:07 <RiD> With the required stuff for repairing it , I would spend around 15€ and then do it myself
Jul 26 20:50:37 <vi_> RiD: there are only 6 screws holding the n900 together.  The speakers just sit in the case. no soldering required.
Jul 26 20:50:54 <RiD> vi_ yes, i noticed the speakers are easy, from watching some videos on youtube. The earpiece isn't
Jul 26 20:50:58 <RiD> I guess it would be better to ask someone at NOKIA don'tCARE to do it. If he screws up it's his own falt
Jul 26 20:51:05 <vi_> there was that guy who fitted some 5800 speakers in his n900.
Jul 26 20:51:19 <Estel_> vi_, no idea why, as 5800 speakers are, in fact, worse
Jul 26 20:51:21 <vi_> RiD: NO WAY.
Jul 26 20:51:23 <Estel_> it turned out :P
Jul 26 20:51:42 <vi_> RiD: nokia care guys are fucking spastic chimps.
Jul 26 20:51:46 <Estel_> BTW, who decided to put 1 mono speaker in N950?
Jul 26 20:51:53 <RiD> spastic walrus, like you said
Jul 26 20:51:54 <RiD> or someone else
Jul 26 20:51:56 <vi_> DO NOT LET THEM NEAR YOUR N900.
Jul 26 20:52:00 <Estel_> RiD, nokia care can recycle Your device without asking first
Jul 26 20:52:13 <Estel_> would You add your girlfriend to hospital, that havew contract with crematory?
Jul 26 20:52:19 <RiD> It doesn't have warranty lol
Jul 26 20:52:29 <Estel_> still, someone may forget that :P
Jul 26 20:52:41 <RiD> then they better give full refund
Jul 26 20:52:44 <RiD> or someone's house will burn
Jul 26 20:52:45 <vi_> fuck nokia care.
Jul 26 20:52:54 <vi_> fucking retards.
Jul 26 20:53:00 <Estel_> freemangordon, lol, thanks godness, so we don't have to wait for Hen update from MohammadAG anymore?
Jul 26 20:53:16 <Estel_> hen gui, I mean
Jul 26 20:53:17 <Estel_> sounds neat
Jul 26 20:53:29 <RiD> the speakers and earpiece aren't high priority anyways, so I'll have a lot of time to think about it
Jul 26 20:53:34 <vi_> it is so hard to explain to a so called tech support when you know more about the thing than them.
Jul 26 20:53:39 <RiD> I hardly make calls with it
Jul 26 20:53:50 <vi_> you have to dumb down so as not to offend them.
Jul 26 20:53:56 <kerio> why the hell would you recycle a n900 instead of selling it
Jul 26 20:54:00 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: should, yes
Jul 26 20:54:18 <vi_> kerio: simple. send it to me.
Jul 26 20:54:23 <kerio> hehe
Jul 26 20:54:32 <RiD> by the way, if anyone has a spare n900 or one that doens't work or whatever
Jul 26 20:54:45 <RiD> but it has a good condition english keyboard (LEGIT! not chinese ripoff), I could talk :D
Jul 26 20:54:45 <vi_> ...they can send it to me.
Jul 26 20:54:50 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, Pali's hostmode detects speed automagically? 0_o?
Jul 26 20:54:59 <kerio> Estel_: it does a bunch of tries
Jul 26 20:55:05 <DocScrutinizer05> Estel_: nah
Jul 26 20:55:06 <kerio> and it doesn't work for me unless i change the timing a bit
Jul 26 20:55:06 <RiD> keyboard only. biggest mistake ever? buying a local n900. Piece of *bleep* layout
Jul 26 20:55:19 <kerio> RiD: just remap the hell out of it
Jul 26 20:55:25 <Estel_> RiD, from time to time, I have good condition N900 with reinforced USB port (solder method) for 180 euro
Jul 26 20:55:36 <vi_> RiD: getting a real keyboard is hard.
Jul 26 20:55:43 <Estel_> vi_, in my country it's easy
Jul 26 20:55:51 <RiD> Estel_ a real keyboard?
Jul 26 20:56:01 <Estel_> for N900. you mean domesheet, or buttons layer?
Jul 26 20:56:01 <RiD> real as in the ultimate real thing?
Jul 26 20:56:04 <vi_> in poland everything is easier.
Jul 26 20:56:06 <Estel_> yea
Jul 26 20:56:08 <Estel_> vi_, lol ;p
Jul 26 20:56:09 <RiD> buttons is all i need
Jul 26 20:56:14 <RiD> (i guess?)
Jul 26 20:56:15 <DocScrutinizer05> Estel_: it might do what I suggested to blueled as well
Jul 26 20:56:17 <vi_> hell, even your neds are better dressed.
Jul 26 20:56:19 <Estel_> RiD, how much willing to pay for real english keyboard?
Jul 26 20:56:38 <RiD> have no idea actually
Jul 26 20:56:49 <Estel_> I may check if my shop close to home have something in that price range
Jul 26 20:56:53 <RiD> tell me first what would be the cost to deliver to portugal?
Jul 26 20:56:58 <Estel_> what aprts you need, generally?
Jul 26 20:56:58 <vi_> rid they should cost no more than 10 GBP.
Jul 26 20:57:07 <Estel_> vi_, go away :P (joking)
Jul 26 20:57:18 <vi_> for keyboard and surround.
Jul 26 20:57:27 <DocScrutinizer05> Estel_: which is: power up vbus, read out speed from level on D+ and D-, power down vbus to stop session, set controller to proper matching speed, power up vbus again
Jul 26 20:57:32 <RiD> Estel_ I think the only thing i need are the buttons?
Jul 26 20:57:36 <Estel_> RiD, it depens on size of aprts require,d but should be overkill, still inside EU
Jul 26 20:57:39 <RiD> my keyboard is working fine - just wearing out and not the best layout
Jul 26 20:57:50 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, it seems it's doing it
Jul 26 20:58:00 <Estel_> which is good from one side, but bad on another, as it makes it longer
Jul 26 20:58:03 <vi_> RiD: go to your dodgiest nokia care centre.
Jul 26 20:58:07 <Estel_> when IU know my speed and don't want auto-test
Jul 26 20:58:14 <vi_> and talk to the owner.
Jul 26 20:58:36 <vi_> if you have a smart mouth you may be able to convince him to sell you one.
Jul 26 20:58:38 <DocScrutinizer05> it might fail miserably when it doesn't check for vbus going down properly. Big capacitors in attached peripheral can make vbus stick at 5V for quite some time
Jul 26 20:59:14 <RiD> vi_ i'm 15 years old. I don't think he would be serious 
Jul 26 20:59:40 <vi_> RiD|AFK: then u r fucked.
Jul 26 20:59:53 <RiD|AFK> that's no big news
Jul 26 21:00:11 <zeq1> freemangordon: re. LDFLAGS when using LTO.  You don't want to do that because the code will be unoptimized with extra sections with hints for the LTO stage.
Jul 26 21:00:20 <vi_> can you get a chinese knockoff KB?
Jul 26 21:01:00 <Estel_> freemangordon, I would like to upgrade to latest cssu-testing, but I'm little lost after reading thread. Currently what are "manual" things required (i.e. ones not related to repos), other than fixing microB for https?
Jul 26 21:01:06 <Estel_> for google, to be precise
Jul 26 21:01:22 <Estel_> I.e. is there any pending update to kp, that will make it even more integrated...
Jul 26 21:01:34 <Estel_> so it is sane to wait few days more for main device, or it just works?
Jul 26 21:01:44 <Estel_> normally I tets bleediong-edge things myself, but no i'm little late with reading
Jul 26 21:01:45 <zeq1> freemangordon: that only applies of course if the linking is done separately.  If it's all done in one gcc instance it doesn't matter.
Jul 26 21:01:52 <Estel_> also, kernel-power-settings,. what';s the status of it?
Jul 26 21:01:59 <Estel_> i've seen kp15 in repos, but it was deleted by x-fade
Jul 26 21:02:06 <Estel_> no there is kp-14 in devel
Jul 26 21:02:20 <Estel_> s/kp-14/kernel-power-settings-14/
Jul 26 21:02:20 <infobot> Estel_ meant: no there is kernel-power-settings-14 in devel
Jul 26 21:02:24 <vi_> Estel_: wut, you mean KP51?
Jul 26 21:02:35 <Estel_> In one device, I have kernel-power-settings 15, that got installed before it got removed from repos
Jul 26 21:02:53 <Estel_> vi_, yea, I've heard about pending update for KP, but I don't know if it happened or not
Jul 26 21:03:09 <Estel_> I just want to install thumb and I'm lsot about manual steps needed after, as it's WIP still
Jul 26 21:03:34 <Estel_> i.e. if it's still required to mess with kernel-power-settings manually? or google fix is only one thing needed?
Jul 26 21:04:50 <kerio> Estel_: i'm using the thumb repo without actually switching cssu flavour
Jul 26 21:04:55 <vi_> Estel_: you should avoid thumb for a couple of days till the last updates are complete.
Jul 26 21:05:12 <vi_> it is a minefield right now.
Jul 26 21:05:16 <Estel_> vi, I have old version of thumb on one of my devices
Jul 26 21:05:18 <kerio> that, too
Jul 26 21:05:20 <Estel_> I see
Jul 26 21:05:25 <Estel_> now I'm talking about main device :P
Jul 26 21:05:52 <kerio> make a full backupmenu backup and don't install the kernel or busybox-power from the thumb repo
Jul 26 21:05:59 <Estel_> oh, yea, guys claiming that new hostmode eats less batery thaN old hostmode. suuure, it sounds beliveable
Jul 26 21:06:25 <Estel_> kerio, why no busybox-power? post on TMO?
Jul 26 21:06:30 <vi_> why not busybox?
Jul 26 21:06:40 <freemangordon> and why not kernel?
Jul 26 21:06:43 <kerio> no, because it's thumby
Jul 26 21:06:47 <vi_> yeah!
Jul 26 21:06:54 <freemangordon> and?
Jul 26 21:06:57 <kerio> and if you have to reflash a different kernel backupmenu won't work
Jul 26 21:07:01 <vi_> eh?
Jul 26 21:07:14 <Estel_> kerio, do You realise, than kernel is required for thumb?
Jul 26 21:07:19 <kerio> yes i do
Jul 26 21:07:34 <kerio> no, wait
Jul 26 21:07:36 <kerio> you just need kp51
Jul 26 21:07:44 <Estel_> also, I know that backupmenu doesn't restore kernels, it's no problem ;)
Jul 26 21:07:49 <kerio> or any kernel with kernel-feature-whatever-errata
Jul 26 21:07:55 <Estel_> yea
Jul 26 21:07:57 <vi_> estel he is saying, if you update to BB thump and have to reinstall nokia kernel.  You are fucked.
Jul 26 21:08:10 <freemangordon> guys, DO NOT UPDATE/INSTALL anything from thumb repo until told so
Jul 26 21:08:17 <Estel_> first, I never use Nokia kernel :p second, why fucked, jsut flash ti via flasher and restore
Jul 26 21:08:26 <kerio> well, you're "fucked"
Jul 26 21:08:27 <Estel_> freemangordon, lol?
Jul 26 21:08:29 <kerio> if you have a pc it's no problem
Jul 26 21:08:30 <vi_> freemangordon: yes.
Jul 26 21:08:32 <freemangordon> it is in inconsistent state right now, I am preparing an update
Jul 26 21:08:41 <zeq1> freemangordon: what's up with the repo?
Jul 26 21:08:44 <Estel_> freemangordon, thanks, it's what I asked about :)
Jul 26 21:08:53 <freemangordon> zeq1: ^^^
Jul 26 21:09:04 <zeq1> inconsistent state, yes
Jul 26 21:09:12 <zeq1> I mean, what did you do to it? :)
Jul 26 21:09:19 <Estel_> freemangordon, and kernel-power 51? We're going to see update in few days, or everythinh for now is in latest version?
Jul 26 21:09:27 <freemangordon> nothing broken, but still ;)
Jul 26 21:09:29 <Estel_> those r1 r2 etc versions confused me
Jul 26 21:09:53 <freemangordon> Estel_: see on TMO, don;t have time now
Jul 26 21:10:01 <Estel_> last question - kernel-power settings state. Why one of ym devices have versioon 15, and that version got pulled out from repos, later, manually
Jul 26 21:10:04 <Estel_> by x-fade
Jul 26 21:10:06 <kerio> Estel_: KP51 is a separate thing, but KP51r1 should be the "stable" one
Jul 26 21:10:06 <vi_> Estel_: there is kp51 in devel.
Jul 26 21:10:10 <Estel_> freemangordon, thanks :P
Jul 26 21:10:20 <kerio> Estel_: and k-p-s v15 is in the repos
Jul 26 21:10:29 <Estel_> I just have 1272 posts to read on TMO :(
Jul 26 21:10:32 <kerio> if you're unsure about what you've installed, uninstall and reinstall from -devel
Jul 26 21:10:48 <Estel_> kerio, thanks, i know that, I was asking about "why it got manually pulled out of repos" at some point
Jul 26 21:10:50 <Estel_> out of curiosity
Jul 26 21:10:53 <vi_> and DONT DRINK THE WATER.
Jul 26 21:11:10 <freemangordon> :nod:
Jul 26 21:11:13 <kerio> it was never pulled out of the repos
Jul 26 21:11:14 <kerio> :o
Jul 26 21:11:17 <Estel_> kerio, it was
Jul 26 21:11:24 <kerio> kp50
Jul 26 21:11:27 <kerio> not k-p-s
Jul 26 21:11:28 <Estel_> wait a minute *searches for link*
Jul 26 21:11:31 <Estel_> settings!
Jul 26 21:11:35 <kerio> madness
Jul 26 21:11:35 <vi_> Estel_: just echo your values strait to /sys.  no KPS required.
Jul 26 21:11:44 <Estel_> vi_, that's an option too
Jul 26 21:12:20 <Estel_> this is not madness, this is... parlamentar comission in polish goverment ;)
Jul 26 21:12:44 <Estel_> jokes asie, I'll just wait few days with thumb
Jul 26 21:13:11 <Estel_> as more I try to understand it's current state (and why so) the more confusing it is. It must wait until I read everything that I've missed in TMO
Jul 26 21:13:18 <Estel_> see You all in 2056 :P
Jul 26 21:13:43 <kerio> waaaaah why doesn't extras-devel use pdiffs
Jul 26 21:13:45 <Estel_> joke of the year: I can always ask Council about current state of Community projects
Jul 26 21:13:47 <vi_> in fact you can set almost everything from /etc/pmconfig.
Jul 26 21:14:05 <vi_> Estel_: why is that a joke?
Jul 26 21:14:18 <Estel_> try that, You will know the answer
Jul 26 21:15:46 * kerio has everything upgraded
Jul 26 21:16:08 <Estel_> also, I need to mess up with N950 - I've updated it, finally, to latest version via one click flasher
Jul 26 21:16:11 <Estel_> it's different story
Jul 26 21:16:19 <Estel_> reboot loop[ after upgrade on device left me without battery
Jul 26 21:16:25 <Estel_> and emergency charging wasn't able to charge it
Jul 26 21:16:52 <Estel_> had to take it out of device and charge in external charger, (battery), as fuckin one click flasher didn't wanted to flash with less than 30 percent batteruy
Jul 26 21:16:54 <Estel_> battery
Jul 26 21:17:01 <freemangordon> FUUUK, I am out of cigarettes and microb refuse to compile with gcc 4.7.2
Jul 26 21:17:02 <Estel_> well, it was 2,96 V when I took it out
Jul 26 21:17:13 <kerio> freemangordon: oh god D:
Jul 26 21:17:16 <Estel_> freemangordon, good moment to drop smoking :P
Jul 26 21:17:20 <kerio> buy more cigarettes! hurry!
Jul 26 21:17:29 <vi_> freemangordon: progress to roll-ups.
Jul 26 21:17:29 <kerio> Estel_: THIS IS NOT TIME FOR CRAZY TALK
Jul 26 21:17:42 <Estel_> sure, it's time to drop smoking :P
Jul 26 21:17:56 <kerio> Estel_: anyway, haters gonna hate
Jul 26 21:18:06 <kerio> the only unupgraded package i have is the mp one because i held it
Jul 26 21:18:14 <kerio> and i'm using a shitton of repos
Jul 26 21:18:17 <zeq1> freemangordon: can't you compare the failing code with what's in the mozilla-central codebase?
Jul 26 21:18:20 <Estel_> well, still, even on newest version, N950 works in portrait mode, mosltly./ I don't know, Nokianks are fckd in head. On N900, they did landscape only, and much effort was put to bring portrait
Jul 26 21:18:30 <Estel_> now in N950 they did portrait-mostly, and much effort is to bring landscape
Jul 26 21:18:34 <freemangordon> Estel_: are you sure you want to install the microb-engine i've compiled after being without cigarettes for couple of hours?
Jul 26 21:18:42 <kerio> so it did compile!
Jul 26 21:18:48 <freemangordon> no
Jul 26 21:18:56 <Estel_> freemangordon, sure :D I always though that artists on drugs would perform even *better* without them :D
Jul 26 21:18:57 <zeq1> freemangordon: most common cause of failure with 4.7 is missing headers l
Jul 26 21:19:04 <Estel_> but no one knows for sure
Jul 26 21:19:04 <kerio> then i don't want to install it :c
Jul 26 21:19:24 <freemangordon> zeq1: this time the reason is because the source code is FUBAR
Jul 26 21:19:46 <Estel_> freemangordon, You can try doing it like in some lame hacker movie
Jul 26 21:19:53 <Estel_> when "hero" was "hacking" into fbi or something
Jul 26 21:19:57 <Estel_> under 2 minutes
Jul 26 21:20:04 <Estel_> via typing in fancy tyerminal gui
Jul 26 21:20:24 <zeq1> freemangordon: have you tried applying the microb patches to mozilla-central?  I was thinking of trying to port them earlier today.
Jul 26 21:20:30 <Estel_> with gun next to his head and girl do9ing him forced blowjob. Most ridicolous "hacker" scene in movies, at all
Jul 26 21:20:59 <freemangordon> zeq1: the function declaration in header is void foo(const bar&), the definition in cpp is void foo(bar*)
Jul 26 21:21:05 <Estel_> it's still haunting some people, years after watching. I wonder how much fkcd in head script writer was
Jul 26 21:21:24 <freemangordon> WTF? zeq1, I am not sure I want to use a SW written by those guys 
Jul 26 21:21:40 <zeq1> is that from the microb patches?
Jul 26 21:21:44 <vi_> Estel_: you have a none thumb device?
Jul 26 21:21:46 <freemangordon> don't think so
Jul 26 21:21:52 <freemangordon> zeq1: ^^^
Jul 26 21:21:56 <Estel_> vi_, currently with me, no thumb
Jul 26 21:22:04 <Estel_> one device lying ind rawer 300 miles away got old thumb
Jul 26 21:22:11 <Estel_> ind rawer*
Jul 26 21:22:13 <Estel_> fuck
Jul 26 21:22:18 <Estel_> in drawer*
Jul 26 21:22:23 <zeq1> it's quite a crusty xulrunner version
Jul 26 21:22:32 <vi_> Estel_: good.  can you echo top to a file and pastebinit for me?
Jul 26 21:22:42 <Estel_> sure
Jul 26 21:22:43 <freemangordon> zeq1: most probably it is original code, after buying cigarretes i will check what is without patches. bbl
Jul 26 21:26:12 <vi_> estel: can you paste it on tmo with 'cat /proc/swaps' and 'free'?
Jul 26 21:26:43 <vi_> start a new thread with a name like thumb vs non-thumb memory comparisons.
Jul 26 21:26:59 <vi_> I will also update it with my stats.
Jul 26 21:27:00 <Estel_> http://sebsauvage.net/paste/?6aae50d5e255556f#4/L4KuUK36aCgAEfg1ooBfMwd8PiKQZKOVWhBCu91Zw=
Jul 26 21:27:22 <Estel_> vi_, all right
Jul 26 21:27:29 <Estel_> vi_, mind You, that I have Ed enabled all the time
Jul 26 21:27:32 <vi_> Hopefully we can get the ball rolling on quantifying the true benefits of thumb.
Jul 26 21:27:35 <Estel_> not LXDE, jsut chrooted into
Jul 26 21:27:44 <vi_> Estel_: that is fine.
Jul 26 21:28:00 <Estel_> ok, log I've send Yuo is after device sitting idle for few hours
Jul 26 21:28:04 <Estel_> without anything openm
Jul 26 21:28:06 <Estel_> open*
Jul 26 21:28:15 <vi_> at this stage in the game everyone runs a fucked up personalised setup.
Jul 26 21:28:52 <kerio> vi_: also note that browserd has a bug regarding the fact that it doesn't close down properly
Jul 26 21:28:57 <kerio> or something
Jul 26 21:29:12 <Estel_> what do you think, which TMO category is suited best for this topic?
Jul 26 21:29:32 <Estel_> memo 5/fremantle, I thing
Jul 26 21:29:36 <Estel_> applications doesn';t sound ok for it
Jul 26 21:30:27 <vi_> fremantle.
Jul 26 21:33:54 <Woody14619> Funny you should consider the "joke of the year" asking Council about current projects, Estel_.
Jul 26 21:34:16 <Woody14619> What I would consider the "joke of the year" around Council, would be very different.
Jul 26 21:34:29 <Estel_> nice for You
Jul 26 21:34:42 <Estel_> vi_, either than cat /proc/swaps You need anything else?
Jul 26 21:34:55 <Estel_> and top output, of course
Jul 26 21:36:20 <Estel_> vi_, anyway, here it is:
Jul 26 21:36:21 <Estel_> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1243487#post1243487
Jul 26 21:45:50 <vi_> yes.  sort by memory useage in top.
Jul 26 21:48:35 <kerio> is there a way to get the memory usage without buffers and caches?
Jul 26 21:49:06 <kerio> oh nvm, the second line in the output of free
Jul 26 21:57:15 <Estel_> vi__, I've fixed top output (was fubar) and posted free too
Jul 26 21:57:18 <Estel_> in thread on tmo
Jul 26 21:57:23 <Estel_> should be OK'ish now
Jul 26 21:57:38 <Estel_> vi_ even
Jul 26 22:08:30 <Estel_> Now I have to a) update main device to all thumb enchanced flavors and so goes on b) make N950 usable and test many things on it c) start messing up with 2 raspberry Pi's that are lying on desk next to me
Jul 26 22:08:42 <Estel_> ... in 7 days before my 2 weeks holidays start
Jul 26 22:08:45 <Estel_> suuure
Jul 26 22:09:43 <freemangordon> zeq1: after all it was not Nokia to screw it up. That was coming from the upstream
Jul 26 22:10:42 <DocScrutinizer05> appguard banned from google store? ROTFL!!
Jul 26 22:11:50 <freemangordon> no antivirus for android? heh
Jul 26 22:13:59 <DocScrutinizer05> no proper alternative to what Nokia thought they could implement with aegis
Jul 26 22:15:04 <DocScrutinizer05> but actually it's a lame joke that google bans a good app from their store, probably and most likely because it could actually allow users to regain control over their own data
Jul 26 22:15:48 <freemangordon> no more rootkits, no good for the big brother :D
Jul 26 22:16:11 <DocScrutinizer05> and I'm totally baffled as I thought android "security" been always like appguard - obviously I've been mistaken
Jul 26 22:17:10 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway, appguard still available in the internets, from a german university of course ;-P
Jul 26 22:25:11 <japh> now you're talking ed memory footprint is this not my old friend ed the editor 
Jul 26 22:26:07 <DocScrutinizer05> and fools at #harmattan don't wanna hear how appguard is better than any aegis
Jul 26 22:27:23 <FIQ|n900> two op?
Jul 26 22:27:57 <ZogG_laptop> DocScrutinizer: it's not like if we want to listen aegis suddenly will go away
Jul 26 22:30:05 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, I'll put ti straight - if someone like aegis, he msut be fckd in head
Jul 26 22:30:23 <Estel_> damn, need to get used to writing from N950
Jul 26 22:30:28 <Estel_> sorry for typos
Jul 26 22:30:54 <Estel_> but, probably, those are same guys, that think capacitive screenm is "more precise" or sensitive than resistive
Jul 26 22:31:43 <FIQ|n900> oh god
Jul 26 22:31:54 <FIQ|n900> capacitive screens...
Jul 26 22:32:05 <ZogG_laptop> lol
Jul 26 22:32:55 <FIQ|n900> I don't like them, but I guess I'll have to live with it sooner or later
Jul 26 22:33:09 <FIQ|n900> capacitive screen = no more nail-stylus
Jul 26 22:33:37 <Estel_> capacitive screen - no more hitting anything smaller than iphone button
Jul 26 22:33:41 <Estel_> and no, You won't have
Jul 26 22:33:51 <Estel_> resistive screens got very good multitouch implemented anyway
Jul 26 22:34:02 <Estel_> in low end user products, capacitive will surely flood the market as they do now
Jul 26 22:34:07 <DocScrutinizer05> you just have to live with it like you have to live with glossy laptop display
Jul 26 22:34:08 <FIQ|n900> though it's not as horrible as lacking hardware keyboard :P
Jul 26 22:34:23 <Estel_> but no sane person will pay many $$$ for geeky product supposed to be mobile computer, with capacitive
Jul 26 22:34:32 <Estel_> unless thei fix technology to properly support precision
Jul 26 22:34:41 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: how is it connected one to another?
Jul 26 22:34:48 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, nope, I buiy only notebooks with mat display
Jul 26 22:34:51 <Estel_> vote via your money.
Jul 26 22:34:57 <FIQ|n900> [00:33:37] <Estel_> capacitive screen - no more hitting anything smaller than iphone button
Jul 26 22:35:15 <FIQ|n900> this is another reason why I don't like them yeah
Jul 26 22:35:27 <Estel_> not to mention pressure sensitivity
Jul 26 22:35:34 <Estel_> I mean, sensing real pressure
Jul 26 22:35:55 <ZogG_laptop> i had no problems with capacitive screens, while push harder to get response is always been the problem with resistance ones
Jul 26 22:35:56 <Estel_> but capacitive fanboys *wavew to zog) don't have a clue, anyway
Jul 26 22:35:59 <FIQ|n900> indeed
Jul 26 22:36:14 <Estel_> ZogG, as said, open anything real - like easy debian, - and try it with capacitive
Jul 26 22:36:17 <Estel_> then come back ;)
Jul 26 22:36:20 <FIQ|n900> ZogG_laptop: lol, that's *better*
Jul 26 22:36:25 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: sure i don't. it's not like i had n900 before... =)
Jul 26 22:36:53 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: yes and use stylus in bus while standing, truely geek
Jul 26 22:37:03 <Estel_> no problems with it
Jul 26 22:37:12 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: don't you think that mobile UI should be mobile UI and desktop ui shuld be desktop
Jul 26 22:37:13 <Estel_> but I probably don't have crippled fingers, like most tenaagers have
Jul 26 22:37:20 <Estel_> nowadays
Jul 26 22:37:26 <Estel_> dropping every small item 5 times per minute
Jul 26 22:37:33 <Estel_> BTw, resistive works great with fingers, ya know?
Jul 26 22:37:36 <FIQ|n900> [00:36:53] <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: yes and use stylus in bus while standing, truely geek
Jul 26 22:37:42 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: as well geeks don't use fancy unity but awesome and things where you can live without mouse
Jul 26 22:37:48 <FIQ|n900> I always use my nails, much more comfortable imo
Jul 26 22:38:01 <Estel_> FIQ|n900, exactly
Jul 26 22:38:10 <Estel_> on the go, I oeprated it with fingers, without problems, as per nails
Jul 26 22:38:20 <ZogG_laptop> FIQ|n900: Estel_ i don't grow nails just for phone =)
Jul 26 22:38:23 <Estel_> also, I got this smal guitar-like thing from 5320
Jul 26 22:38:38 <Estel_> ZogG, face it, tennagers grown on capacitive screens have crippled fingers :P
Jul 26 22:38:43 <FIQ|n900> also, I accidently lost the stylus to my old phone... didn't hurt me at all
Jul 26 22:38:46 <ZogG_laptop> and if you have no problems with fingers you can use capacity
Jul 26 22:38:56 <FIQ|n900> (which also had a resistive screen)
Jul 26 22:39:03 <Estel_> I'll repeat it again, last tiome - capacitive stylus must be almsot as big as finger to work
Jul 26 22:39:03 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: i dunno about it, never checked teenagers fingers
Jul 26 22:39:03 * DocScrutinizer05 feeds ZogG_laptop a buffalo horn
Jul 26 22:39:06 <Estel_> which make it useless
Jul 26 22:39:07 <DocScrutinizer05> eat THAT
Jul 26 22:39:15 <DocScrutinizer05> instead of your fingernails
Jul 26 22:39:15 <Estel_> lol :)
Jul 26 22:39:35 <FIQ|n900> also Estel_ 
Jul 26 22:39:39 <Estel_> the problem with capacitive is that You can't comfortably use anything smaller than iphone button-sized
Jul 26 22:39:56 <Estel_> ...which makes it unusable for anything other than dumb-phone things, like angry birds
Jul 26 22:39:59 <FIQ|n900> it's not the lack of diameter, more like the (lack of) temperature iirc?
Jul 26 22:40:04 <Estel_> FIQ|n900, no
Jul 26 22:40:07 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: there is only one thing in resistance better than capacity which is pressure measures.
Jul 26 22:40:13 <Estel_> it depend son type, but N950 and N9, no
Jul 26 22:40:18 <FIQ|n900> ok
Jul 26 22:40:38 <Estel_> FIQ|n900, basically, is msut be something capacitive that forwards capacitance from your body to screen
Jul 26 22:40:48 <Estel_> but some IDIOT decided, that small detection areas must be errors
Jul 26 22:40:51 <Estel_> so they're filtyered out
Jul 26 22:40:52 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: you have very good comparing and argument skills i must say =)
Jul 26 22:40:53 <DocScrutinizer05> capacitive is from capacitor. 
Jul 26 22:41:00 <FIQ|n900> Estel_: brilliant
Jul 26 22:41:02 <DocScrutinizer05> ~wiki capacitor (electric)
Jul 26 22:41:05 <infobot> I couldn't find a matching article in wikipedia, look for yerselves: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=capacitor+(electric)&go=Go
Jul 26 22:41:05 <Estel_> = only things like 15mm diameter are detected
Jul 26 22:41:24 <FIQ|n900> thank you xchat for that broken link
Jul 26 22:41:34 <Estel_> but of course, it's like iphone retina screens - there are always fanmboys like ZogG, who "know better"
Jul 26 22:41:43 <DocScrutinizer05> dielectric constant * area / distance
Jul 26 22:41:50 <Estel_> we will eternally have idiots, proving that "retina" screens are "superior technology"
Jul 26 22:42:07 <Estel_> and we will always have idiots, that doesn't see capacitive screens are just about manufacturing costs
Jul 26 22:42:12 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: you know that you just switch name and you can use your sentense against you
Jul 26 22:42:16 <Estel_> and both technically and as per usability, worse for user
Jul 26 22:42:24 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: but sure it's like Estel_ fanboys who knows better
Jul 26 22:42:43 <Estel_> well, some people just like to think that "industry angels decided to give us better things" ;)
Jul 26 22:42:48 <FIQ|n900> ZogG_laptop: indeed, which makes that argument useless
Jul 26 22:42:48 <Estel_> marketing guys did their job done
Jul 26 22:43:10 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: if you use desktop resolution and fancy DE on mobile, than it doesn't mean you a geek, i would say opposite
Jul 26 22:43:13 <FIQ|n900> but IMO resistive > capacitive, for the reasons I and Estel_ has stated
Jul 26 22:43:24 <Estel_> ZogG, the whole point is that You don't have any counter-arguments agaisnt capacitive screens lack of sensing small area touch
Jul 26 22:43:26 <Estel_> You jsut write
Jul 26 22:43:36 <Estel_> "resistive is better only via pressure sensitivity"
Jul 26 22:43:46 <Estel_> while You ignore any arguments, that doesn't match Your fanboish viewe
Jul 26 22:43:48 <FIQ|n900> also this is turning into a flameware
Jul 26 22:43:54 <Estel_> kinda
Jul 26 22:43:57 <ZogG_laptop> FIQ|n900: it's not like i'm trying to prove my point here, ijust like capacitive and said it, but he decided to call me fanboy and prove i'm wrong (on prefering something), it amuses me =P
Jul 26 22:44:00 <Estel_> as every "discussion" with ZogG  ;)
Jul 26 22:44:16 <Estel_> well, we're talking about merit of technical and practical benefits
Jul 26 22:44:20 <Estel_> not about what someone like or not
Jul 26 22:44:28 <FIQ|n900> s/ware/war/
Jul 26 22:44:30 <FIQ|n900> nice typo
Jul 26 22:44:35 <Estel_> my point is that industry feeds us with capacitive screens for their reasons, not our comfort
Jul 26 22:44:42 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: the whole dialog is you saying a lot of crap with no arguements and than it's "like all discussion with ZogG" =)
Jul 26 22:45:00 <Estel_> as for both technical and prtactical reasons, capacitive screens are inferior
Jul 26 22:45:31 <Estel_> it's just more comfortable for *them* to put it, and marketing department took feeding fanboys with bullshit that it's "better", like with "retina" screens
Jul 26 22:45:34 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: if UI is good you can use fingers, as touch screen in mobiles are made for fingers. so you can touch it. Stylus is yesterday. that's it
Jul 26 22:45:49 <Estel_> in dumb phones, yes
Jul 26 22:45:56 <FIQ|n900> DocScrutinizer05: you removed the bot's "let's announce every replace!" thing? :P
Jul 26 22:45:58 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: i still don't see how it's worse that resistance
Jul 26 22:45:59 <Estel_> in any other use case - l;ike real mobile computer - it's design flaw
Jul 26 22:46:22 <Estel_> we're tal;king about things pretending to be linux-related mobile computers with phone funcionality
Jul 26 22:46:23 <Estel_> ;)
Jul 26 22:46:27 <Estel_> as in N950
Jul 26 22:46:32 <FIQ|n900> also ZogG_laptop what about websites?
Jul 26 22:46:33 <Estel_> or really mobile computers, as in N900
Jul 26 22:46:42 <Estel_> yea, clicking text links suxx too
Jul 26 22:46:58 <ZogG_laptop> FIQ|n900: i had no problems with double tap that would focus to right size
Jul 26 22:47:02 <FIQ|n900> I tried to use iPhone to go to a pair of websites
Jul 26 22:47:02 <Estel_> unless someone read them in 300% zoom, which is, probably, the case with teenagers with broken eyes
Jul 26 22:47:12 <Estel_> sure, 4 x more clicks than needed
Jul 26 22:47:15 <Estel_> double tap to zoom
Jul 26 22:47:20 <Estel_> then zoom again to desired size
Jul 26 22:47:26 <Estel_> very optimal.
Jul 26 22:47:31 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: taking off stylus and putting it back, losing it is worse than 4 clicks
Jul 26 22:47:39 <Estel_> why won't You just swap to text based browsers, at all?
Jul 26 22:47:41 <FIQ|n900> Estel_: I'm vision impared
Jul 26 22:47:45 <ZogG_laptop> and again it's not practical when you are on the way 
Jul 26 22:47:56 <FIQ|n900> ZogG_laptop: ok, didn't know that
Jul 26 22:48:04 <ZogG_laptop> your concentration would be on phone instead of walking =)
Jul 26 22:48:08 <Estel_> ZogG, fingertips ;) also, due to lesser area detected, resistive are better in this case, even with regular fingers
Jul 26 22:48:20 <FIQ|n900> but IMO it would be more practical not having to rezoom everytime
Jul 26 22:48:22 <Estel_> BTw, when You walk, better not use phone watching screen at all
Jul 26 22:48:26 <Estel_> truck may hit You m;)
Jul 26 22:48:34 <DocScrutinizer05> ~botsnack
Jul 26 22:48:35 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05: :)
Jul 26 22:48:46 <ZogG_laptop> FIQ|n900: Estel_ most modern sites are mobile friendly
Jul 26 22:48:51 <Estel_> LOL
Jul 26 22:48:59 <Estel_> sure, for facebook fans it may suffice
Jul 26 22:49:04 <RiD|AFK> ^
Jul 26 22:49:04 <Estel_> but for this you need 200 mhz dumb phone
Jul 26 22:49:17 <Estel_> on real mobile computers, I want to watch normal sites
Jul 26 22:49:20 <ZogG_laptop> and i need to zoom mostly on sites like old forums with really small links. while normal sites have swipe and other tasty stuff
Jul 26 22:49:21 <FIQ|n900> They are, but I hate mobile sites that cripple everything
Jul 26 22:49:25 <Estel_> otherwise, 200x200 pixels screen suffice
Jul 26 22:49:26 <FIQ|n900> Estel_: Indeed
Jul 26 22:49:29 <RiD|AFK> i hate mobile sites mostly
Jul 26 22:49:33 <RiD|AFK> they're like way too basic
Jul 26 22:49:38 <RiD> doesn't let you do anything
Jul 26 22:49:43 <FIQ|n900> indeed
Jul 26 22:49:48 <RiD> just "check this, no more support because it's ass to do so"
Jul 26 22:49:55 <Estel_> well, the thing is, with resistive screens You can use fingers, stylus, whatever - hit big detection area, or 2 pixel wide one
Jul 26 22:49:56 * DocScrutinizer05 heads out puking a little
Jul 26 22:49:59 <Estel_> with capacitive, youre cripopled
Jul 26 22:50:04 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: i don't like that if you don't like something you assume people who do not agree with you are teenagers and using only facebook. it's ignorance and stupid btw =)
Jul 26 22:50:08 <Estel_> and forced to use only one method
Jul 26 22:50:32 <Estel_> well, saying "you can always use mobile-optimized sites only" for mobile computer is indeed ignorance
Jul 26 22:50:42 <Estel_> anyway
Jul 26 22:50:50 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: if finger works on resistance is would work on capacitive as well. simple like that
Jul 26 22:51:00 <FIQ|n900> oh by the way Estel_, what are you plans with n950? i.e. what will you play around with?
Jul 26 22:51:12 <ZogG_laptop> stylus is less comfy than finger, because finger is simply part of you
Jul 26 22:51:20 <Estel_> too much time wasted on this pointless discussion. I'm glad that my belowed N900 have nice resistive screen, and my heart cries that N950 1GB of ram is kinda wasted, as no real programs for it
Jul 26 22:51:23 <Estel_> like running Ed
Jul 26 22:51:32 <Estel_> unless someone invent notebook-touchpad like control for it
Jul 26 22:51:43 <ZogG_laptop> the one reason resistance can be better is simply the pressure measure when you can use it for painting and things like that
Jul 26 22:51:44 <Estel_> ZogG, wrong as always
Jul 26 22:51:53 <Estel_> on resistive, You can touch with half of Your finger too
Jul 26 22:52:00 <DocScrutinizer05> ZogG_laptop: my fingernails are also a part of me, and I'm not eating them like you do
Jul 26 22:52:04 <FIQ|n900> uuh
Jul 26 22:52:05 <Estel_> on capacitive, there is minimum treeshold on surface detected
Jul 26 22:52:14 <Estel_> You can't use smaller thing than set diameter, period
Jul 26 22:52:17 <FIQ|n900> Estel_: you're using ed? :p
Jul 26 22:52:29 <ZogG_laptop> DocScrutinizer05: i cut them and i dn't grow them long like a girl, what can i do
Jul 26 22:52:29 <Estel_> FIQ|n900, extensively. as in easy debian
Jul 26 22:52:42 <FIQ|n900> oh.. right
Jul 26 22:52:47 <Estel_> ZogG, any normal person with short fingernails don't have problems using them to tap something on screen
Jul 26 22:52:50 <FIQ|n900> wasn't that obvious :D
Jul 26 22:53:21 <FIQ|n900> but Estel_, what will you play around with @n950?
Jul 26 22:53:25 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: but the angle to touch it?
Jul 26 22:53:37 <Estel_> FIQ|n900, will try community things like open ekrnel and e4nchancements
Jul 26 22:53:39 <ZogG_laptop> 90% would make you touch with tip of finger
Jul 26 22:53:44 <Estel_> out of factory state is kinda unusable
Jul 26 22:53:52 <ZogG_laptop> !=%
Jul 26 22:54:08 <ZogG_laptop> 90⁰
Jul 26 22:54:12 <FIQ|n900> ah, but will you do actual development with it?
Jul 26 22:54:38 <Estel_> FIQ|n900, define development. If what I did for N900 was development, sure. But I don't think it's fair to call it like that
Jul 26 22:54:40 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: if you dont like your n950 give it to e-eyes
Jul 26 22:54:47 <Estel_> and for sure I'm going to do some hardware things with it :)
Jul 26 22:55:00 <Estel_> ZogG, why, You can always give Your one.
Jul 26 22:55:08 <DocScrutinizer05> there is no such thing like development on harmattan - only qtm drag'n'drop "programming"
Jul 26 22:55:09 <Estel_> noe one said we don't like it, which don't mean we can't point out flaws
Jul 26 22:55:17 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: i do like mine and use it, but you only bitching about it
Jul 26 22:55:17 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, that's too :P
Jul 26 22:55:27 <FIQ|n900> ah, just wondered if a n950 was justified (didn't want to start a flame here, but whatever) :p
Jul 26 22:55:33 <Estel_> difference between sane user and fanboy - I like it, but I moar on it's flaws
Jul 26 22:55:45 <Estel_> like I moar on N900's out of factory usb port
Jul 26 22:55:48 <Estel_> or lack of HDMI out
Jul 26 22:55:52 <FIQ|n900> DocScrutinizer05: sounds really complicated
Jul 26 22:55:59 <Estel_> but that one is fixable, at least
Jul 26 22:56:08 <FIQ|n900> is there tutorials available? :<
Jul 26 22:56:09 <Estel_> either by reinforcing usb port, or as in hdmi out, using raspberry Pi as middle-man
Jul 26 22:56:39 <Estel_> FIQ|n900, I'm surprised that someone stil lcome with that topic, but CA awards were not about development :P
Jul 26 22:56:59 <FIQ|n900> whatever :p
Jul 26 22:57:08 <trx> DocScrutinizer ++
Jul 26 22:57:09 <Estel_> for developmkent, Yuo have 300 prior devices, and another 30 N950's from this pyear propgrams
Jul 26 22:57:10 <ZogG_laptop> FIQ|n900: it's easy to judge and say things when you don't really do anything. so don't listen to them. you can use any language there =)
Jul 26 22:57:13 <japh> I only have myself to blame but I *did* read 'something about fm chip' on n950 and that was enough for me to take for granted that, ok, great, I can use it like I use the n900 in the car. Big mistake since it's not even fixable by me
Jul 26 22:57:16 <FIQ|n900> Just wondered what you would do with it
Jul 26 22:57:24 * FIQ|n900 wants one too d:
Jul 26 22:57:34 <Estel_> japh, yea, that's another overkill
Jul 26 22:57:44 <Estel_> FMTX transmitter present, but not connected to antenna
Jul 26 22:58:04 <Estel_> well, if I ever do custom alu body for N950 for bigger battery - like with N900 - i'll put FMTX there
Jul 26 22:58:07 <Estel_> external one
Jul 26 22:58:27 <Estel_> for example, rated up to 1W, so You can jam half of city with your music :P
Jul 26 22:58:31 <ZogG_laptop> it seems to me that actually not me here is fanboy as i like both n9 and n900. but people here saying that n900 is "da bes phone evar"
Jul 26 22:58:33 <zeq1> freemangordon: you've fixed it then?
Jul 26 22:58:34 <Estel_> (with external antenna connected)
Jul 26 22:58:56 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: did you finish the n900's one btw?
Jul 26 22:59:11 <Estel_> it's about looking at things meritocratic way. N950 got some things better, but others are blockers, for mobile computer use case :(
Jul 26 22:59:12 <japh> it would've been so much better with it. And 16G is way too little space , at least for me... It'd be fine if I could add 64G of sdhc but that was another thing I didn't look up; I thought that hey why would nokia make this cool n900++ device and leave out some of the most awesomest things
Jul 26 22:59:15 <FIQ|n900> ZogG_laptop: I'm preferring n900 due to its' keyboard
Jul 26 22:59:17 <japh> oh well
Jul 26 22:59:24 <zeq1> I'm going to build a new cputransp devkit with a modern qemu
Jul 26 22:59:25 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: any preview photos or actually anything and not just talking
Jul 26 22:59:29 <Estel_> ZogG, see thread on TMO. that's why i've said "if I ever", as N900 one is priority now
Jul 26 22:59:45 <Estel_> Well, check for Yourself, TMO thread is public ;)
Jul 26 22:59:47 <ZogG_laptop> FIQ|n900: i like keyboard too, but again if UI is wise and it's matter of getting used too
Jul 26 22:59:57 <Estel_> also, it's kinda funny, as You haven't donated single penny for it
Jul 26 23:00:01 <FIQ|n900> oh please
Jul 26 23:00:04 <japh> n900 is great and maemo is great, but the issue is that it's too damn slow today. With 512M more ram... sure
Jul 26 23:00:06 <Estel_> yet You're bitching about lack of progress? Seriously?
Jul 26 23:00:14 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: i saw thread, there was nothing on first post.
Jul 26 23:00:16 <FIQ|n900> not a single touch-keyboard will ever make me happy
Jul 26 23:00:33 <Estel_> ZogG, that's nice, as thread like that are for people that can read 10 pages thread, not only single post :)
Jul 26 23:00:46 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: talking is only talking
Jul 26 23:00:47 <japh> fiq|n900, have you tried this 'swype' thing?
Jul 26 23:00:50 <Estel_> FIQ|n900, following twisted logic of that guy, You don't need phone at all
Jul 26 23:00:56 <Estel_> You may get used to carrying desktop with You
Jul 26 23:01:01 <FIQ|n900> tried every variants, various android phones, various iphone models, the DS/3DS, nothing suited me
Jul 26 23:01:03 <Estel_> and riding statioonary bicycle for powering it
Jul 26 23:01:06 <japh> I also said like that before I tried it, and I still insist that typing on the screen sucks
Jul 26 23:01:09 <FIQ|n900> japh: I've heard of it
Jul 26 23:01:16 <FIQ|n900> uh wait
Jul 26 23:01:22 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: that's actually you using desctop apps on phone =) not me
Jul 26 23:01:22 <japh> yes ;)
Jul 26 23:01:26 <FIQ|n900> Isn't it the android spellchecker?
Jul 26 23:01:29 <Estel_> japh, after extensive training, swype may be faster for writing typical sms messages
Jul 26 23:01:32 <Estel_> but nothing more
Jul 26 23:01:37 <japh> uhm not really a spellchecker afaik
Jul 26 23:01:43 <FIQ|n900> or smth
Jul 26 23:01:47 <FIQ|n900> spellcorrecter
Jul 26 23:01:49 <Estel_> ZogG, ever heard about why people created notebooks, and later, mobile computers, like N900? ;)
Jul 26 23:01:50 <japh> I don't really get how it works because I can't type on it fast enough I guess
Jul 26 23:01:51 <FIQ|n900> i meant
Jul 26 23:01:56 <Estel_> for me, you can go back to stone age
Jul 26 23:02:12 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: your logic is broken
Jul 26 23:02:17 <FIQ|n900> and also
Jul 26 23:02:19 <Estel_> suure ;)
Jul 26 23:02:22 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: new is always a change!
Jul 26 23:02:22 <japh> it takes about 2 minutes for me typing one of my passwords on the onscreen keyboard :(
Jul 26 23:02:31 <FIQ|n900> touch keyboards removes a lot of screen space
Jul 26 23:02:42 <Estel_> well, for mobile computer hardware keyboard is a must
Jul 26 23:02:42 <FIQ|n900> things that could be used for something *useful*
Jul 26 23:02:49 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: you want something smaller, lighter, than it would not be the same as desctop. 
Jul 26 23:02:51 <Estel_> just like good screen, not that capacitive thing :(
Jul 26 23:03:03 <FIQ|n900> like an editor/terminal/webpage/etc
Jul 26 23:03:10 <Estel_> ZogG, wrong as always. Smaller ands lighter doesn't necessary mean cripple din features
Jul 26 23:03:26 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: it's only u saying cripple.
Jul 26 23:03:27 <Estel_> modularity allow to sue N900 as full fledged desktop, depending on peripherials you carry with You
Jul 26 23:03:43 <Estel_> for example, Yuo can even connect serial cable to it, or parallel
Jul 26 23:03:45 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: than just make exact copy of computer, just smaller and use it =)
Jul 26 23:04:01 <Estel_> and in form factor of mobile phone. so? N900 is kinda this
Jul 26 23:04:05 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: and it can make coffee for you as well. right.
Jul 26 23:04:21 <Estel_> well, it seems that You're just no in *our* use case group :)
Jul 26 23:04:24 <FIQ|n900> ZogG_laptop: that would work, if the form factor was a bit improved
Jul 26 23:04:29 <Estel_> You want dumb phone with useless resources like fact cpu and ram
Jul 26 23:04:34 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: you can connect serial cable to N900? 
Jul 26 23:04:37 <Estel_> as yopu can;'t utilize them
Jul 26 23:04:41 <Estel_> ZogG, sure
Jul 26 23:04:52 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: and you did it?
Jul 26 23:04:53 <Estel_> we wan't mobile computer with phone funcionality
Jul 26 23:04:57 <Estel_> ZogG, sure ;)
Jul 26 23:05:05 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: and you use it in eveyday life?
Jul 26 23:05:07 <japh> nokia made some really annoying design faults but then again there's still nothing out there that can come close to either n950 nor n900. Everything sucks, this is just what sucks the least
Jul 26 23:05:18 <Estel_> I carry usb->serial adaptor when I need it
Jul 26 23:05:23 <FIQ|n900> japh: indeed
Jul 26 23:05:25 <Estel_> for example, debugging CNc machines on field
Jul 26 23:05:32 <Estel_> other people connect N900 to car OBSII systems
Jul 26 23:05:37 <Estel_> other people do other fancy things
Jul 26 23:05:37 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: i prefer something to be more comfy in everyday life use, than just something that can make things for just prove of concept
Jul 26 23:05:45 <Estel_> having real computer, YOU decide how to use it
Jul 26 23:05:48 <Estel_> not vendor
Jul 26 23:06:02 <Estel_> well, so youre typical windows user mentality type
Jul 26 23:06:03 <FIQ|n900> oh well
Jul 26 23:06:11 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: any modern car can have wireless connection and apps with nice ui to do what you want to do
Jul 26 23:06:13 <japh> I wouldn't really care for regular cell phone use since today who makes regular phone calls anyway? 
Jul 26 23:06:14 <Estel_> linux mentality type is that we can, but not *must* use other options
Jul 26 23:06:16 <Estel_> so we have choice
Jul 26 23:06:24 <ZogG_laptop> for hardware things there are special tools for that
Jul 26 23:06:30 <FIQ|n900> if someone made a mobile with the form factor of n900, improved specs, a real OS
Jul 26 23:06:31 <Estel_> and everyone can put combination of features available that likes much, via peripherials, or programs
Jul 26 23:06:36 <FIQ|n900> then take my money
Jul 26 23:06:40 <japh> When I need to call grandma I use the 3310 anyway
Jul 26 23:07:00 <FIQ|n900> if not, I'll go ahead and buy a new n900 when it's needed
Jul 26 23:07:07 <Estel_> japh, buth having possibility to do phone calls don't hurt :)
Jul 26 23:07:10 <japh> mhm good luck fiq|n900 
Jul 26 23:07:11 <Estel_> and mobile network
Jul 26 23:07:13 <Estel_> it makes great pair
Jul 26 23:07:16 <japh> you better hurry up I'm afraid :p
Jul 26 23:07:20 <FIQ|n900> japh: :<
Jul 26 23:07:22 <japh> sure
Jul 26 23:07:26 <Estel_> japh, new as in sue din great condition
Jul 26 23:07:38 <FIQ|n900> my phone will break soon I believe
Jul 26 23:07:49 <Estel_> FIQ|n900, remember about me selling N900's :D
Jul 26 23:07:52 <Estel_> with reinforced port ;)
Jul 26 23:07:53 <japh> yes but I've bought a few this year and they're already getting harder to come by
Jul 26 23:07:55 <FIQ|n900> it's breaking apart right now
Jul 26 23:07:59 <FIQ|n900> yes
Jul 26 23:08:05 <Estel_> japh, not in off-line world of small shops
Jul 26 23:08:14 <FIQ|n900> and I do love the reinforced-usb part
Jul 26 23:08:16 <Estel_> but I agree that they're not produced anymore
Jul 26 23:08:20 <japh> hmm what was that now again
Jul 26 23:08:24 <FIQ|n900> also
Jul 26 23:08:28 <FIQ|n900> this reminds me of...
Jul 26 23:08:36 <FIQ|n900> Newton
Jul 26 23:08:37 <Estel_> I wonder what Jolla will made for us
Jul 26 23:08:51 <FIQ|n900> @ people crawling out to get the n900s that are left
Jul 26 23:08:52 <Estel_> I'm afraid it may end up with keyboard less device, as they're Harmattan legacy
Jul 26 23:08:56 <Estel_> in love with N9
Jul 26 23:09:00 <FIQ|n900> way after the last one is produced
Jul 26 23:09:00 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: you'll be disappointed with capacitive screen and "fanboys" phone
Jul 26 23:09:14 <Estel_> at best, I don't expect real screen digitizer, probably jsut capacitive one. But if rest will be ok
Jul 26 23:09:28 <Estel_> but maybe they will surprise us?:D
Jul 26 23:09:45 <japh> I wonder how many deviced nokia could sell if they only let us people make one order. It seems like everyone wants n900/n950 and no one really wants n9 
Jul 26 23:09:59 <FIQ|n900> haha :p
Jul 26 23:10:00 <Estel_> honestly, i still belive, that one day, Community will go Rpi/openpandora way, i.e. doing open (as much as possible) hardware on it's own
Jul 26 23:10:13 <FIQ|n900> japh: doesn't openpandora do that? :P
Jul 26 23:10:17 <japh> I saw there's an external keyboard thingy for n9 on sale now that'll 'transform your n9 to a n950'
Jul 26 23:10:17 <Estel_> japh, i'm sure some people would choose N9 too
Jul 26 23:10:22 <FIQ|n900> i.e. creates on order basis
Jul 26 23:10:28 <Estel_> the problem si that Nokia don't even like own N9 and 808 pureview :P
Jul 26 23:10:38 <japh> estel_, some people yes but I don't think we who talk here would
Jul 26 23:10:49 <ZogG_laptop> lol
Jul 26 23:10:52 <Estel_> japh, some would, look at zog ;P
Jul 26 23:10:56 <ZogG_laptop> fanatism is the best way to go
Jul 26 23:11:03 * DocScrutinizer05 grabs the master_of_trolling medal and runs
Jul 26 23:11:10 <Estel_> japh, honestly, while N950 is grerat device, my N900 stil ldoes circles around it in terms of usability
Jul 26 23:11:17 <FIQ|n900> DocScrutinizer05: :D
Jul 26 23:11:19 <Estel_> ;P
Jul 26 23:11:38 <japh> you are free to pick whatever you want of course, I'm just saying that in general we are not 'normal' customers or whatever they like to call it
Jul 26 23:11:43 <Estel_> maybe qwazix's work on bringing fremantle programs to N950 will help, but some flaws are unfixable
Jul 26 23:11:47 <Estel_> like alck of microSd slot
Jul 26 23:11:49 <Estel_> lack*
Jul 26 23:11:51 <Estel_> this damn screen
Jul 26 23:12:02 <japh> estel_, so does mine but that's for my part 90% thanks to the stupid ui
Jul 26 23:12:03 <Estel_> well, lack of camera lens cover I can fix with custom body
Jul 26 23:12:08 <Estel_> same for fm transmitter, with enough will
Jul 26 23:12:09 <japh> I'm never going to befriend it
Jul 26 23:12:23 <Estel_> japh, qwazix is working on bringing hildon ui to N950
Jul 26 23:12:30 <Estel_> to harmattan, as whole
Jul 26 23:12:36 <Estel_> although, capacitive screen kills the fun
Jul 26 23:12:41 <japh> how much $ would you need for fixing fm transmitter for me too?
Jul 26 23:12:50 <Estel_> japh, no chance for fixing it on board
Jul 26 23:12:50 <japh> yeah I think I talked to him
Jul 26 23:13:10 <Estel_> I just think about custom body, with better space usage (N950 have much free space filled with aluminum)
Jul 26 23:13:16 <japh> hmm
Jul 26 23:13:34 <Estel_> Well, for me, N900 with mugen cover thickness is fine, so making N950 thick as that, I could easidly put 7000mAh (real) battery there
Jul 26 23:13:41 <Estel_> and external FMTX module, cxonnected to audio out
Jul 26 23:13:44 <japh> you got your n950 just the other day right?
Jul 26 23:13:44 <Estel_> with hardware switch
Jul 26 23:13:52 <Estel_> yea, week ago, even less
Jul 26 23:14:00 <FIQ|n900> Estel_: well, the point of N950 was N9 development
Jul 26 23:14:05 <Estel_> already dissasembled it as much as possible and assembled again
Jul 26 23:14:07 <japh> I didn't think they gave away devices still
Jul 26 23:14:14 <Estel_> it's still alive :P
Jul 26 23:14:15 <FIQ|n900> so I guess it wouldn't make any sense to have a resistive screen
Jul 26 23:14:22 <FIQ|n900> from that PoV
Jul 26 23:14:28 <Estel_> FIQ|n900, point of N950 was to be final product
Jul 26 23:14:31 <Estel_> later changed t2o N9
Jul 26 23:14:37 <Estel_> with N950 batch as development
Jul 26 23:14:39 <ZogG_laptop> japh: don't make too much hopes on that 
Jul 26 23:15:01 <japh> zogg_laptop, on what?
Jul 26 23:15:08 <Estel_> but you know? This game galaxy on fire they've shipped with pr1.2 is kinda fine ;)
Jul 26 23:15:14 <Estel_> suuure, every system looks the same
Jul 26 23:15:17 <japh> I gave up getting n950 already when I heard about it :p
Jul 26 23:15:21 <Estel_> it isn't Elite frontier, after all
Jul 26 23:15:26 <Estel_> but surprised me positively
Jul 26 23:15:47 <ZogG_laptop> japh: so you don't ahve n950 or n9?
Jul 26 23:16:04 <FIQ|n900> I would buy a n950 as n900 successor I guess
Jul 26 23:16:09 <FIQ|n900> if just it was *available*
Jul 26 23:16:18 <Estel_> FIQ|n900, jolla will probably fix that, I think
Jul 26 23:16:22 <FIQ|n900> nokia really don't want my money lol
Jul 26 23:16:33 <japh> zogg_laptop, no I have an n950, but I wasn't even looking for one, I was looking for buying a bunch of n900's when some random dude came along and offered me n950
Jul 26 23:16:36 <Estel_> still, don't expect better situation with FOSS UI, than it was with N900
Jul 26 23:16:38 <Estel_> probably worse
Jul 26 23:16:43 <Estel_> but, maybe they will surprise us,l as said
Jul 26 23:16:50 <Estel_> after all, it's Mer, and they submit patches to Nemo
Jul 26 23:17:03 <Estel_> Open UI would be great, great surprise
Jul 26 23:17:18 <Estel_> all after all, as it's based on Mer core, Ui should be fully replaceable after all
Jul 26 23:17:21 <FIQ|n900> Estel_: I don't expect anything better than n900, it was the ideal phone when I got it for me
Jul 26 23:17:29 <Estel_> don't cheat ourselves, Mer is future of Open mobile, with jolla or without
Jul 26 23:17:33 <japh> but with foss ui we can always *make* things better
Jul 26 23:17:37 <FIQ|n900> now it's a bit too old, but otherwise fine
Jul 26 23:17:46 <Estel_> japh, actually, with mer, even without foss ui we can replace it
Jul 26 23:17:51 <japh> I don't think ... exactly
Jul 26 23:17:52 <Estel_> FIQ|n900, for me, lack RAM only
Jul 26 23:18:00 <Estel_> things like hdmi out would be great, but still
Jul 26 23:18:09 <Estel_> y6et, I use it every day with much pleasure
Jul 26 23:18:23 <FIQ|n900> Estel_: I just want a n900 with better hardware :P
Jul 26 23:18:32 <Estel_> well, considering that Mer is real mobile linux, I'm optimistic about jolla thing
Jul 26 23:18:37 <Estel_> FIQ|n900, sure :P
Jul 26 23:19:03 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: why do you want HDMI if you have serial port?
Jul 26 23:19:05 <Estel_> well, for someone willing to spen 1000 USD or so,it is hard, but possible, to get chip with 1GB ram, and solder it on infra red soldering station
Jul 26 23:19:16 <Estel_> got to wikipedia, and read what hdmi is
Jul 26 23:19:24 <Estel_> it's like comparing grapples to oranges
Jul 26 23:19:57 <japh> what exactly is it that makes it - at least - take an effort to get good old fremantle going on the n950? Were things so damn hardware specific already from the start?
Jul 26 23:20:12 <Estel_> japh, sure, too closed
Jul 26 23:20:24 <Estel_> Cordia is effort to bring hildon ui on top of mer, but I doubt cordia will be ever in usable state
Jul 26 23:20:41 <Estel_> other than that. N950 hardware adaptation for Mer isn't finished, and msot likely, never will
Jul 26 23:20:45 <Estel_> things like GPs don't work
Jul 26 23:20:51 <Estel_> say hi to elop
Jul 26 23:20:54 <japh> well what I really would want is, you know, X, and then I'm free to pick wm myself
Jul 26 23:21:04 <beford> im not Elop
Jul 26 23:21:08 <Estel_> it was on it's way to be 100% hardware compatible, but february elopcalypse come
Jul 26 23:21:14 <Estel_> beford, haha
Jul 26 23:21:16 <FIQ|n900> beford: lol
Jul 26 23:21:18 <FIQ|n900> bad timing :P
Jul 26 23:21:28 <Estel_> made me literally lol
Jul 26 23:21:47 <ZogG_laptop> if you put all ports and 3 usb and microsd and 3 sim cards and keybaord and ir and bigger battery and good video camera and more and more.... just buy a fucking laptop and good canon/nickon/what-evercamera
Jul 26 23:22:11 <Estel_> whatever rambling it is, I don't understand anything from this 3 liner sentence
Jul 26 23:22:16 <Estel_> sounds like rant, though
Jul 26 23:22:19 <ZogG_laptop> you can't make everything in one piece and expect it to be portable and be best in everything
Jul 26 23:22:31 <Estel_> of course You can. ever heard about modularity?
Jul 26 23:22:41 <Estel_> when I wan't serial port, I carry with me usb -to-serial adaptor
Jul 26 23:22:45 <Estel_> in other situations, I don't
Jul 26 23:22:55 <Estel_> same for small, portable, travel keyboard
Jul 26 23:22:58 <Estel_> or mouse
Jul 26 23:22:58 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: you can't replace good camera with phone!
Jul 26 23:23:05 <Estel_> yea? check 808 pureview
Jul 26 23:23:08 <Estel_> as for compact
Jul 26 23:23:23 <Estel_> as for DLSR, no one trioes to, as it wouldn't be too portable
Jul 26 23:23:28 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: it's not like 7D anyway =)
Jul 26 23:23:33 <Estel_> but no technical reasons preventing it
Jul 26 23:23:36 <japh> this is also a problem that we doesn't share the very same needs :p
Jul 26 23:23:37 <ZogG_laptop> that' the point
Jul 26 23:23:44 <Estel_> again, grapples and oranges
Jul 26 23:23:53 <Estel_> with mirrors in DLSR camera, it's technical constrain
Jul 26 23:23:54 <ZogG_laptop> if you want good camera keep being camre without phone and opposite
Jul 26 23:23:56 <japh> I don't want no camera. I want my vim running faster
Jul 26 23:24:05 <Estel_> in sitrruations You mention, it's flaw of stupid design decisions
Jul 26 23:24:12 <Estel_> physical again mental constraints
Jul 26 23:24:13 <ZogG_laptop> japh: how vim can run slow on n900?
Jul 26 23:24:14 <FIQ|n900> i don't care about a camera
Jul 26 23:24:17 <Estel_> You're constrained mentally
Jul 26 23:24:26 <FIQ|n900> my n900 could have no camera at all
Jul 26 23:24:27 <Estel_> we talk about things perfectly possible physically
Jul 26 23:24:32 <FIQ|n900> I wouldn't complain
Jul 26 23:24:43 <FIQ|n900> the only part of the camera I use is the light :D
Jul 26 23:24:44 <japh> zogg_laptop, not sure how to answer that, except that the culprit is its syntax hl
Jul 26 23:24:44 <ZogG_laptop> FIQ|n900: Estel_ the camera is example. if you want something professional it can;t be combine
Jul 26 23:24:58 <Estel_> very bad example, as it's physical constraint
Jul 26 23:25:03 <Estel_> where mobile computer is mental one
Jul 26 23:25:05 <japh> fiq|n900, heh that's true - that have been really useful 
Jul 26 23:25:10 <Estel_> no physical constraints to make it mobile computer
Jul 26 23:25:30 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: battery is physical. ports is physical, chips and modules is physical
Jul 26 23:25:31 <Estel_> it's just about design decisions, every required bits are available and possible
Jul 26 23:25:37 <Estel_> wrong, as always
Jul 26 23:25:44 <ZogG_laptop> enlight me
Jul 26 23:25:48 <Estel_> I can put bigger battery if I want, but no one forces me
Jul 26 23:25:58 <Estel_> I can carry with me usb-to-whatever adaptors, but again, not required
Jul 26 23:26:12 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: bigger battery is bigger size. you talked about carrying desktop around before, right?
Jul 26 23:26:16 <Estel_> every thing needed to make it 99,99% as usable as desktrop computer i s physically possible without making it behemor
Jul 26 23:26:19 <Estel_> behemot*
Jul 26 23:26:27 <GeneralAntilles> Wrong is clearly the incorrect word to be using.
Jul 26 23:26:28 <Estel_> for DLSR camera, it's simply matter of mirrors and big space required
Jul 26 23:26:32 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: you can use usb to anything with n9/n950/android or anything
Jul 26 23:26:33 <GeneralAntilles> Business decisions are what's involved.
Jul 26 23:26:59 <Estel_> GeneralAntilles, sure, but not alwys. lack of microSd on N9 and N950 is hardly business decision
Jul 26 23:27:01 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: not anything but you can patch kernel and make drivers
Jul 26 23:27:08 <Estel_> unless every design decision is business decision too
Jul 26 23:27:19 <Estel_> ZogG, sure. But for hdmi, I can't
Jul 26 23:27:21 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: 64 gb phone is enuf.
Jul 26 23:27:26 <Estel_> before You ask, no, You can't do usb -> hdmi
Jul 26 23:27:35 <Estel_> ZogG, 512 kb ram is enough
Jul 26 23:27:40 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: hdmi reqieres place. and yes it's pitty we don't ahve it
Jul 26 23:27:42 <Estel_> I said You're typical windows user ;)
Jul 26 23:28:03 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: man, just stop being personal!!!!!
Jul 26 23:28:04 <Estel_> we don't lack available place.
Jul 26 23:28:08 <Estel_> it's no personal
Jul 26 23:28:14 <Estel_> it's about You putting constraints on mentality
Jul 26 23:28:14 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: what distro u use?
Jul 26 23:28:21 <Estel_> who Yuo are to decide that overpriced 64 GB N9 is enough?
Jul 26 23:28:28 <Estel_> 15 years ago 512 kb RAM was enough for gates
Jul 26 23:28:35 <nox-> 640 k
Jul 26 23:28:38 <ZogG_laptop> let's just get over with measuring pineses if you want
Jul 26 23:28:40 <Estel_> "no one will ever need more than 512 kb of RAM"
Jul 26 23:28:42 <japh> in the meantime we can get 64*16 n900
Jul 26 23:28:44 <japh> blargh
Jul 26 23:28:47 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: what distro do you use?
Jul 26 23:28:53 <japh> hmm. :) 64+16
Jul 26 23:29:05 <Estel_> japh, on N900, we can use SDXC too
Jul 26 23:29:09 <Estel_> 32GB internaL
Jul 26 23:29:12 <Estel_> + whatever card size
Jul 26 23:29:20 <Estel_> SDXC is up to 2000 GB IIRC ;)
Jul 26 23:29:22 <japh> oh fuck is it 32 internal? :D I forgot
Jul 26 23:29:25 <Estel_> yea
Jul 26 23:29:34 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: but do you really use all this space?
Jul 26 23:29:50 <Estel_> well, bill gates said that no one will ever need 512 kb of ram ever, and now zog tell us that we don't need more than 64gb in overpriced N9
Jul 26 23:29:54 <Estel_> sure
Jul 26 23:29:56 <japh> I do not *now* but the n9 was filled up instantly
Jul 26 23:30:00 <japh> n950*
Jul 26 23:30:01 <ZogG_laptop> for few movies and for music and data it's enuf
Jul 26 23:30:04 <Estel_> N950 is 16 GB
Jul 26 23:30:22 <Estel_> it's "enuf" for You, which doesn't mean it's good design decisions objectively
Jul 26 23:30:33 <Estel_> it's again about beinbg mentally constrained
Jul 26 23:30:39 <Estel_> no loss in putting damn microSd slot there
Jul 26 23:30:46 <GeneralAntilles> Costs money
Jul 26 23:30:48 <GeneralAntilles> Adds to support costs
Jul 26 23:30:52 <Estel_> GeneralAntilles, seriously
Jul 26 23:30:54 <GeneralAntilles> Changes your software implementation.
Jul 26 23:30:58 <ZogG_laptop> japh: i have 64 gb n9 and i have enuf place for few movies and music and personal data. and i don't make movie collection or music collection on phone. i simply put what i will use in near future
Jul 26 23:31:06 <japh> what are the choices if I'd want to extended the storage for the n950? stick + usb adapter? :/
Jul 26 23:31:06 <Estel_> you know as good as me, that microSd slot is neglible cost, considering software support too
Jul 26 23:31:14 <Estel_> japh, yea
Jul 26 23:31:17 <GeneralAntilles> No, actually, it's not.
Jul 26 23:31:31 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: so you ignored my question, what linux do you use? if you call me windows user (as it can be something bad actually)
Jul 26 23:31:32 <Estel_> GeneralAntilles, for whole device designing costs?
Jul 26 23:31:57 <Estel_> lol, I couldn't find revelance, but, whatever. I use Debian, aptosid, ubuntu, LinuxCNC, MAemo... ;)
Jul 26 23:32:01 <Estel_> also, windows XP, when needed
Jul 26 23:32:12 <Estel_> now, how is it rellevant to You thinking like gates did?
Jul 26 23:32:17 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: debian ok, UBUNTU? and you call me windows user?
Jul 26 23:32:18 <DocScrutinizer05> uSD holder is cheap, uSD interface is a PITA sometimes
Jul 26 23:32:18 <beford> ew windows
Jul 26 23:32:28 <DocScrutinizer05> it gave us glamo, on GTA02
Jul 26 23:32:29 <Estel_> zog, Your ignorance is showing as always
Jul 26 23:32:37 <Estel_> ubuntu with unity kicked off and LXDe, for example
Jul 26 23:32:37 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: gates thought of making business and he succeeded
Jul 26 23:32:41 <Estel_> is quite comparable to debian
Jul 26 23:32:57 <Estel_> thats why people like freemangordon worked on ubuntu for N900
Jul 26 23:33:11 <Estel_> zog, north korean leader also suceed. Or chinbese ones.
Jul 26 23:33:12 <japh> estel_, you live in ... poland?
Jul 26 23:33:16 <Estel_> which doesn't mean it's justified.
Jul 26 23:33:19 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: i'm gentoo user for past ± 7 years. so don't teach me please =)
Jul 26 23:33:20 <Estel_> japh, yea ;)
Jul 26 23:33:27 <japh> aha. 
Jul 26 23:33:43 <Estel_> zog, still you're ignorant
Jul 26 23:33:44 <DocScrutinizer05> what a trollfest
Jul 26 23:33:52 <Estel_> like arguing that ubuntu is < or > than other distro, lol
Jul 26 23:34:10 * DocScrutinizer05 waves at GeneralAntilles
Jul 26 23:34:11 <Estel_> it's like "my e-penis" is longer than Your"
Jul 26 23:34:23 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: you can call me whatever, we had arguments before and majority decided already not once who is just about "talking" 
Jul 26 23:34:25 <GeneralAntilles> What's new, DocScrutinizer05?
Jul 26 23:34:33 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, uSd interface is pita, but for company like Nokia designing device,m You agree that it's hardly roadblock?
Jul 26 23:34:34 <DocScrutinizer05> job eating me
Jul 26 23:34:52 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: you started by assuming something. i just went down to your level =)
Jul 26 23:35:04 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer05, employment is good, though, right?
Jul 26 23:35:06 <Estel_> zog, majority seems to not care about Your capacitive screens or whatever fanboyism. we're discussing here, in civilized way, you're the only one shouting and trolling around ;)
Jul 26 23:35:22 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: it's again your opinion
Jul 26 23:35:23 <DocScrutinizer05> Estel_: depends, probably they would have had the 2ndry function on SoC free for mmc interface
Jul 26 23:35:27 <Estel_> if You don't liek to continue this discussion, simply leave zog, we won't miss You much
Jul 26 23:35:28 <ZogG_laptop> and your opinion is only yours
Jul 26 23:35:42 <Estel_> and Your e-penis is still longer?;)
Jul 26 23:35:47 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: i prefer #maemo when how it was way before you actually =)
Jul 26 23:35:51 <Estel_> whatever, EOT :)
Jul 26 23:36:13 <Estel_> You were mostly unknown, before post-CA drama, so it's still pointless discussion
Jul 26 23:36:20 <DocScrutinizer05> GeneralAntilles: atm it feels like I'm going to continue tomorrow where I left here
Jul 26 23:36:25 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-P
Jul 26 23:36:33 <GeneralAntilles> Nix the ad hominems, please.
Jul 26 23:36:39 <Estel_> japh, how do you knew about country?:)
Jul 26 23:36:40 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: if you didn't know me it doesn't mean anything =)
Jul 26 23:36:49 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer05, debate is stimulating to the brain. ;)
Jul 26 23:36:54 <Estel_> sure, nice for You. EOT, yes?
Jul 26 23:37:08 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: FYITA?
Jul 26 23:37:15 <Estel_> japh, still here?
Jul 26 23:37:32 <Estel_> DocScrutinizer, I've heard you're also optimistic about Jolla
Jul 26 23:37:43 <beford> slashdot is getting really slow to catch news
Jul 26 23:37:52 <Estel_> slashdot is passe ;)
Jul 26 23:37:54 <japh> estel_, your name looked like it couldv'e origin from there somewhere
Jul 26 23:38:00 <japh> (I'm half czech)
Jul 26 23:38:02 <ZogG_laptop> you are just full of sht and talking a lot, and doing nothing. simple as that. at least finish your N900 cover mod before asking for money and than talk. =)
Jul 26 23:38:04 <Estel_> ah, I see :)
Jul 26 23:38:25 <ZogG_laptop> good that u see
Jul 26 23:38:31 <ZogG_laptop> talking and watching?
Jul 26 23:38:34 <ZogG_laptop> something new
Jul 26 23:38:38 <Estel_> lol, troll fest?
Jul 26 23:38:45 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: and you are the winner
Jul 26 23:38:48 <Estel_> You know that i'm talking with japh, don't stick you e-penis to our discussion :)
Jul 26 23:39:07 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: please tell 5 mre times "e-penis"
Jul 26 23:39:08 <DocScrutinizer05> GeneralAntilles: I'm just worrying about my neck: 60 minutes phone congerence, with a normal phone and typing on keyboard during that
Jul 26 23:39:16 <DocScrutinizer05> conference even
Jul 26 23:39:25 <Estel_> Well, i'm going to maintain my projects the way I like it, and nice people arer supporting - also via donations and preoprders - it much. It seems to me, that you're little offensive vs allo people involved in custom body project for N900
Jul 26 23:39:36 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer05, go buy a headset.
Jul 26 23:39:40 * DocScrutinizer05 ponders taking gaffa tape with hin
Jul 26 23:39:45 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: right, scams are scams =)
Jul 26 23:40:01 <GeneralAntilles> Both of you shut up and move on.
Jul 26 23:40:12 <Estel_> well, kinda miserably pathetic from your side - attacking someone's project, cause Your troll ego "lost" capacitive screen/mobile computers feature discussion
Jul 26 23:40:16 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: want to buy mega app for only 500$ that would enlarge your e-penis?
Jul 26 23:40:17 <DocScrutinizer05> GeneralAntilles: I got several headsets, but the phone has no receptacle ;-P
Jul 26 23:40:20 <Estel_> not to mention that it's comparing grapples to oranges...
Jul 26 23:40:29 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer05, ah, one of those. Oops.
Jul 26 23:40:38 <Estel_> but accusing someone of scam just for the fun of it is kind aout of line, even for miserable childish troll like You.
Jul 26 23:40:50 <GeneralAntilles> Last warning Estel_ and ZogG_laptop.
Jul 26 23:40:58 <Estel_> I suggest You to get some deep breaths, and go for a walk
Jul 26 23:41:02 <DocScrutinizer05> hey,  ow the fun starts :-D
Jul 26 23:41:07 <ZogG_laptop> Estel_: i didn't lose. i had my opinion. but you was fanatic. and even better i win. coz most today phones have capacitive screen
Jul 26 23:41:35 <Estel_> well, I think this miserable quotation ends this discussion? :D
Jul 26 23:42:24 <Estel_> It would be act of mercy to actually respond more - everyone saw enough to judge on it's own.
Jul 26 23:42:28 <ZogG_laptop> GeneralAntilles: i'll just continue watching tv-show. i just couldn't stay aside with fanatic arguments and when someone turns in personal labeling. sorry
Jul 26 23:42:46 <Estel_> I wish You startiong, one day, a project that will gather people support, including monetary one. After all, it's all about contributing to Community
Jul 26 23:43:02 <GeneralAntilles> Trolling is an activity which thrives on attention.
Jul 26 23:43:30 <Estel_> You have my guarantee, that I won't accuse You of scam just for the fun of it, or because I don't like your style of writing/arguments/whatever ;)
Jul 26 23:43:33 <Estel_> Good night and have fun
Jul 26 23:44:04 <Estel_> japh, continuing our (more productive) discussion, we must meet on beer one day :D
Jul 26 23:45:03 <japh> estel_, heh that could be sooner than you'd think
Jul 26 23:45:11 <Estel_> why, visiting Poland soon?
Jul 26 23:46:07 <japh> I'm going to czech in october with my parents and they've decided to stay for little over a month - in the meantime I've a few conferences to attend but then I'll likely be bored
Jul 26 23:46:25 <Estel_> ah, I see, so you don't live there everyday?
Jul 26 23:46:34 <japh> oh no, I live in sweden
Jul 26 23:48:21 <japh> 5 billion options for firefox's ./configure
Jul 26 23:48:23 <Estel_> I see. Well, my love interest travels to Czech republic from time to time, due to studies and work
Jul 26 23:48:28 <Estel_> lol
Jul 26 23:48:31 <japh> I'm going to be pissed if this doesn't compile on first try :p
Jul 26 23:48:42 <Estel_> ./configure hell
Jul 26 23:49:19 <japh> I'm awfuly bad at where places and countries are relative to eachother, I just now that poland is down there somewhere not too far away
Jul 26 23:49:22 <japh> right?
Jul 26 23:49:30 <japh> know, even
Jul 26 23:53:08 <Estel_> yes, it's little to the northeast
Jul 26 23:53:11 <Estel_> more north than east
Jul 26 23:53:35 <Estel_> have border with czech republic
Jul 26 23:54:09 <Estel_> and don't worry, i'm equally bad at describing countries surrounding sweden ;)
Jul 26 23:56:19 <LaoLang_cool> hello, how to move the cursor with keyboard in busybox? doesn't it support readline feature, for example, <ESC>b move backward one word
Jul 26 23:59:31 <robbiethe1st> left/right arrow key?
Jul 26 23:59:31 <japh> estel_, hehe great :)
Jul 26 23:59:42 <japh> laolang_cool, no, grab bash and make yourself an inputrc
Jul 27 00:02:03 <LaoLang_cool> robbiethe1st, it's one charactor movement, too slow...
Jul 27 00:02:07 <LaoLang_cool> japh, ahh...
Jul 27 00:03:04 <japh> laolang_cool, n900 or something else?
Jul 27 00:03:34 <LaoLang_cool> japh, maemo of course :)
Jul 27 00:04:06 <japh> urk bash3 then
Jul 27 00:05:30 <LaoLang_cool> japh, thank you. doesn't want to install another shell though ;p
Jul 27 00:05:37 <japh> what?
Jul 27 00:06:00 <japh> you can not seriously want to use busyboxs ash
Jul 27 00:06:11 <japh> I have already provided you with a working inputrc here
Jul 27 00:10:10 <LaoLang_cool> japh, I like busybox because it's simple and built-in :)
Jul 27 00:10:23 <japh> :|
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jul 27 02:59:58 2012