**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 01 02:59:59 2012 Aug 01 03:01:01 oh, I think I got it Aug 01 03:01:13 the 'start vibrating' means start it right now :) Aug 01 03:01:24 Oh, yes! Aug 01 03:01:40 <_< Aug 01 03:03:33 If I had a perverted mind... I might take that last comment in a different way ;) Aug 01 03:03:44 But, /obviously/ I don't. Aug 01 03:06:07 haha Aug 01 03:06:43 LaoLang_cool, I'm not sure, as I never needed it, but it's possible that using mce.ini, you could assign different vibrating pattern to different things Aug 01 03:07:07 on stock, same led pattern is used for mail, sms, etc, which doesn't mean you can't make it different. Same for vibra, IIRC Aug 01 03:07:13 Estel_, hmm, got it! Aug 01 03:07:22 and Aug 01 03:07:25 Cool Aug 01 03:07:27 LaoLang_cool> the 'start vibrating' means start it right now :) Aug 01 03:07:33 Oh, yes! Aug 01 03:07:37 <_< Aug 01 03:07:39 made my day Aug 01 03:08:00 Estel_, My English is almost broken, haha Aug 01 03:08:04 Exactly. :P Aug 01 03:08:27 ;p Aug 01 03:08:29 So... completely off topic, but do your N900s act like this transitions wise? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0naeSt9BTFY&feature=related Aug 01 03:09:37 which detail exactly you mean? Aug 01 03:10:33 Like, the FPS/responsivness Aug 01 03:10:57 no, this one on video is sluggish Aug 01 03:11:04 I'm not sure if I've just gotten spoiled, or this guy's just way overloaded it. Aug 01 03:11:20 blame faceshit webpage, probably Aug 01 03:11:21 Because I get /smooth/ transitions, probably a good 20+fps Aug 01 03:11:24 also, he may be running on stock Aug 01 03:11:33 this video is pathetic Aug 01 03:11:46 the think that 6 opened browser windows is 6 different programs running Aug 01 03:11:50 Ok, good enough. Aug 01 03:12:11 Yeah, just ran across it on the edge of Youtube somehow Aug 01 03:12:20 well, my device is responsive even during creation of 4GB lzma archive Aug 01 03:12:22 ;) Aug 01 03:12:40 What IO tweaks did you do? Aug 01 03:13:06 one day freemangordon asked me to do something, and I was surprised that it's little sluggish, then I realized i totally forget about lzma archive creating for few hours already Aug 01 03:13:13 was using device as normal all this time Aug 01 03:13:18 swap on microSd ONLY Aug 01 03:13:29 and swapiness settings as in easy debian thread Aug 01 03:13:38 Ah, and you were creating the archive on the eMMC? Aug 01 03:13:48 (two versions there - one by freemangordon, one by me, mine are little more conservative approach) Aug 01 03:13:59 yea Aug 01 03:14:01 no, not Aug 01 03:14:06 actually, on microSd that time Aug 01 03:14:13 but it doesn't matter much Aug 01 03:14:45 BTW, mine and freemangordon settings, while different, are both even more different from swapiness recommended ones, which are depreciated Aug 01 03:14:51 s/swapiness/swapollube/ Aug 01 03:14:51 Estel_ meant: BTW, mine and freemangordon settings, while different, are both even more different from swapollube recommended ones, which are depreciated Aug 01 03:15:55 BTW, sulu, despite using such settings for swapiness on his device, wasn't able to dist-upgrade easy debian to wheezy even with -nice 19, watchdog killed him. OTOH, I not only upgrade it without problems, but I'm doing other things on device Aug 01 03:16:01 so microSd swap is a must Aug 01 03:16:22 Is there any way to disable watchdog in software? Aug 01 03:16:36 Like, without R&D mode? Aug 01 03:16:40 OTOh again, some people using swap on microSd without tweaked swap settings also reported crfashes, so probably, both things are required for vallaha Aug 01 03:16:59 something was ther,e probably, but either I don't remember it, or made it up Aug 01 03:17:05 anyway, R&D mdoe can be changed on the fly Aug 01 03:17:08 during device runtime Aug 01 03:17:17 Good enough Aug 01 03:17:31 thanks to Mentalist Traceur's program/script Aug 01 03:18:09 robbiethe1st, speaking about backupmenu, I got feature request - shouldn't be very, very hard to code Aug 01 03:18:25 it's possible to have arbitraty config file, with locations specified, that would be ignored from backup? Aug 01 03:18:41 for example, I have /home/user/games, where I have 2GB of weboss games Aug 01 03:18:55 such things actually never change, and don't compress well... Aug 01 03:19:04 it's PITA to have it in every backup Aug 01 03:19:23 I would backup it once manually, and perform backupmenu backups without this location Aug 01 03:19:26 doable? Aug 01 03:19:53 afaik it's single argument in tar command, so parsing config file for it, jsut like for compression it's parsed from menu, should be trivial, yep? Aug 01 03:20:00 this feature would, actually, made many people happy Aug 01 03:20:10 others requested something similar in backupmenu's threads Aug 01 03:20:14 robbiethe1st ^^^ Aug 01 03:28:36 Out of curiosity, wouldn't you keep those files either in your fat32 mydocs or in a seperate partition? Aug 01 03:28:52 If they're just symlinked from MyDocs, then it won't pick them up Aug 01 03:38:33 yea, but having such things in non-posix filesystem isn't fun Aug 01 03:38:40 \half of them must be in ext anyway Aug 01 03:38:47 permissions, such stuff Aug 01 03:38:53 \and separate partition just for games is lame Aug 01 03:39:09 can't estimate how much space I will need in 6 months, so either wasting much, or having to resize often Aug 01 03:39:25 keeping them in /home/user/games is most logical thing to do, alongside other games Aug 01 03:40:04 and simple config file for lsit of ignored locations, for backupmenu, would be definitelly useful for other things too Aug 01 03:40:37 not to mentionm that such config file could also keep data about, lets say, fi9lesystem of optfs Aug 01 03:40:53 so no more editing backupmenu files by hand to have ext4 partition rebuild during restoration Aug 01 03:40:56 robbiethe1st Aug 01 03:40:58 ^^ Aug 01 03:41:04 !!! BTw, fire, fire! Aug 01 03:41:11 backuypmenu scripts I have sent You have ext4 coded inside Aug 01 03:41:14 sorry, forget about it Aug 01 03:41:29 it's ok for kernel-power users, but others could be unpleasantly surprised Aug 01 03:41:34 so be sure to fix it Aug 01 03:41:48 before pushing it to -devel ;) Aug 01 03:41:58 You see? config file would save us from situations like this too Aug 01 03:42:17 not to mention, that such config file is editable from backupmenu's root console (after mountroot), so it's absolutely convenient thing Aug 01 03:42:30 ok, i'm off for few hours Aug 01 03:42:40 have nice morning Aug 01 03:46:34 K Aug 01 05:11:51 http://pastebin.com/86McznNA Aug 01 05:11:53 heh Aug 01 05:12:02 call barrack! Aug 01 05:30:31 Macer: there's a clone of you in #bitcoin-dev Aug 01 05:47:42 heh Aug 01 05:47:45 meh Aug 01 05:48:04 cant say i hang out in bitcoin-dev ;) Aug 01 08:06:03 Morning, all Aug 01 08:08:25 o/ Aug 01 08:14:19 morning Aug 01 08:14:31 X-Fade: any news on apps4meego? Aug 01 08:14:40 X-Fade: should we panic? Aug 01 08:15:40 ZogG_laptop: No, fixing. Aug 01 08:16:34 X-Fade: btw, can you make backup of all deps or as stskeep started to help me with script to do it, but we never finished Aug 01 08:17:02 X-Fade: as i understand it's hosted by Nokia too, so if we want at some point own repos... Aug 01 08:17:04 ZogG_laptop: Backup of what? Aug 01 08:17:16 X-Fade: all deps of testing and stable Aug 01 08:17:54 ZogG_laptop: Ah, that is no problem. We are migrating the servers to another datacenter and have backups at both locations now. Aug 01 08:19:44 X-Fade: good, any help needed? Aug 01 08:22:14 ZogG_laptop: Nah, it just ran out of disk because of a backup filling the space :) Aug 01 08:23:11 X-Fade: lol Aug 01 08:23:46 X-Fade: btw what servers are you moving too? somebodie's personal? Aug 01 08:24:09 ZogG_laptop: Servers owned by Nemein. Aug 01 08:25:03 ok Aug 01 08:40:01 yo Estel_ Aug 01 08:40:27 "somebodie" /facepalm Aug 01 08:43:13 X-Fade: it's back online :) Venemo_N9 and qwazix now can upload their apps \o/ Aug 01 08:45:37 wat? Aug 01 08:55:17 Venemo_N9: apps4meego is back online Aug 01 08:56:28 ZogG_laptop, when apps4meego is online, you can use apt-mirror to backup full repository Aug 01 08:57:14 awesome Aug 01 08:57:27 ZogG_laptop, see http://wiki.maemo.org/Apt-mirror Aug 01 09:01:26 what would it take to add diffindex support to extras-devel? Aug 01 09:01:46 20kB instead of 9MB is a big difference Aug 01 09:05:16 as far as i know repo management software used there can't do that Aug 01 09:06:14 D: Aug 01 09:12:40 Pali: thanks Aug 01 09:13:11 ZogG_laptop, if there are more official/unofficial harmattan repositories, update wiki Aug 01 09:13:22 I was not able to find OVI apt repository Aug 01 09:14:06 Pali: did you add MohammadAG's one? and there are a lot on OBS but they are for few packages only Aug 01 09:14:58 Pali: i think ovi is not repo anymore like in maemo, in pr1.0 or even 1.1 there was no update thru manager, only thru ovi. Aug 01 09:15:10 add some usefull which contains key harm software... Aug 01 09:15:36 and how is ovi sw installed? Aug 01 09:15:52 no idea Aug 01 09:16:03 Pali: MohammadAG's has all the system-ui related stuff Aug 01 09:16:16 toggles and music control and so on Aug 01 09:16:26 ok, then add it to harmattan list Aug 01 09:54:21 what is the recommended way to enable smart reflex permanently? Aug 01 09:54:30 the wiki redirects to kernel-power-configuration which does not mention smartreflex anywhere Aug 01 11:30:55 DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! Aug 01 12:11:12 Hi all. Is there a command line tool to fetch GPS co-ordinates on the N900? Aug 01 12:14:48 yes Aug 01 12:14:58 http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/Using_Location_API Aug 01 12:16:04 bindi: Yeah found that already - I was hoping for a package that someone had already created, but I shall take the Python route. Aug 01 12:22:27 Nokia-N900:~# apt-get install python-location Aug 01 12:22:28 E: Couldn't find package python-location Aug 01 12:22:29 Aug 01 12:22:33 Hmm Aug 01 12:24:47 Do I need to add extra repos...? Aug 01 12:28:10 Doing a dpkg -i from http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/python-location/0.2-1/ seemed to work... Aug 01 12:29:14 Any ideas on the battery drain of leaving the GPS running? Aug 01 12:51:29 hello there Aug 01 12:51:47 I've uploaded my first package to extras-devel Aug 01 12:51:57 but it's failing to build in i386 Aug 01 12:51:58 narcos: a lot, or something like that Aug 01 12:52:15 here is the log https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/status-area-displayblanking-applet_0.9-1/i386.build.log.FAILED.txt Aug 01 12:52:28 the error is: dpkg-genchanges: error: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory Aug 01 12:52:36 which is not very descriptive unfortunatelly Aug 01 12:52:49 does anybody know what could be the reason? Aug 01 12:53:00 it builds ok for armel Aug 01 13:31:45 luca_: include debhelper, or write debian/files your own Aug 01 13:42:53 chem|st: sorry, include debhelper where exactly? Aug 01 13:43:29 debian/rules Aug 01 13:54:16 whoops Aug 01 13:57:54 is someone familiar with how /sbin/preinit works? Aug 01 14:02:15 kerio: what is the problem? Aug 01 14:02:33 If you have screwed up preinit you will need to reflash rootfs. Aug 01 14:03:45 vi_: no, i want to know if there's a good-ish way of putting the whole of /usr/ somewhere else Aug 01 14:03:53 specifically, in emmc Aug 01 14:05:48 to get rid of fucking ~optification Aug 01 14:05:52 ~optification Aug 01 14:05:53 optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3" Aug 01 14:06:16 DocScrutinizer! you're back! Aug 01 14:06:31 DocScrutinizer05! you're back too! Aug 01 14:06:57 DocScrutinizer05: let's move /usr/ to the emmc Aug 01 14:09:09 kerio: ... Aug 01 14:09:17 kerio: good luck with that. Aug 01 14:09:27 vi_: thanks :( Aug 01 14:09:57 kerio: lookup matans moveroot.sh script Aug 01 14:13:16 vi_: moveroot.sh doesn't move root! :c Aug 01 14:13:32 kerio, I there is project M32GB which can copy full maemo into /home/maemo5 Aug 01 14:13:56 and with fanoush bootmenu you can choose to start maemo from rootfs or maemo from eMMC Aug 01 14:15:03 infobot, M32GB is https://code.launchpad.net/~pali/+junk/maemo_M32GB Aug 01 14:15:04 Pali: okay Aug 01 14:15:08 ~M32GB Aug 01 14:15:09 somebody said m32gb was https://code.launchpad.net/~pali/+junk/maemo_M32GB Aug 01 14:15:21 kerio, see ^^^ Aug 01 14:16:17 the thing is, all of those things are heavily nonstandard Aug 01 14:16:53 did you get your otterbox yet? Aug 01 14:17:00 vi_: nope Aug 01 14:17:04 gay Aug 01 14:17:06 do you think it'll help with the rootfs move? Aug 01 14:17:12 >:D Aug 01 14:19:01 M32GB will copy full maemo system to eMMC (/home) Aug 01 14:23:09 hm Aug 01 14:23:34 it looks kludgy :c Aug 01 14:24:34 besides, i don't want another copy of maemo 5 Aug 01 14:26:41 chem|st: which program exactly? I'm not a packaging expert but AFAIK debhelper is composed from a lot of dh_* programs Aug 01 14:33:36 How to disable mce from commandline? I want to disable them when night from fcron Aug 01 14:36:16 LaoLang_cool: why do you want to do that? Aug 01 14:42:20 vi_: for power saving, to turn mce off, i.e. to turn led notification off Aug 01 14:49:05 as I am here, any of you know where the lock file is for apt-get space ? Aug 01 14:49:27 I dont think it is apt-get actually, it might be the maemo app installer, claiming there is no free space Aug 01 14:49:35 so, there has to be a lock file somewhere Aug 01 15:00:34 maybe you are just running apt-get and application manager at once? Aug 01 15:02:21 LaoLang_cool: Turning MCE off to kill the notifiations led will not save you any power. Aug 01 15:04:49 vi_: really? I have set led always on for notification, still need power cost I think Aug 01 15:05:17 Is there a way to turn led notification off from dbus? Aug 01 15:10:44 You could define a blank pattern and assign it the highes priority available. Aug 01 15:10:59 Then trigger that pattern from dbus. Aug 01 15:11:15 However notification LED power use is negligable. Aug 01 15:11:27 Besides it only flashes when you are being notified of somthing! Aug 01 15:14:07 vi_: The main power usage is phone call and screen displaying, right? Aug 01 15:28:48 oh, time to sleep ,p Aug 01 15:51:11 any apps that let me stream my n900's camera? Aug 01 15:52:48 'phonestream' .. let's try this Aug 01 15:57:33 not sure how to use this Aug 01 16:07:15 PoS doesn't work Aug 01 16:14:07 vi_: tanks for answering :D Aug 01 16:18:36 psst DocScrutinizer51 Aug 01 16:18:49 i heard you are able to help me with phonestreamer or getting my n900 to work as an ip cam Aug 01 16:18:57 it's been sitting dead for a year Aug 01 16:19:04 almost Aug 01 16:23:19 MohammadAG: Have you seen http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85816 ? Aug 01 16:35:37 Pali: what handles the notification led while charging with your module? Aug 01 16:35:53 * DocScrutinizer05 is @ vacation Aug 01 16:36:00 DocScrutinizer05: \o/ Aug 01 16:37:19 so the question now is: stay 10 days @ IRC 24h/d, or walk the woods each day and ignore IRC for 10 days Aug 01 16:37:44 hm, tough one Aug 01 16:38:08 are they mutually excusive? Aug 01 16:38:20 I'm afraid they're not ;-P Aug 01 16:38:33 I got a N900 ;) Aug 01 16:39:02 you can walk the woods and you can occasionally check in to IRC Aug 01 16:39:09 Pali: what turns on the notification led on charge, with your battery module? Aug 01 16:39:20 or put espeak to purpose XP Aug 01 16:39:34 lol Aug 01 16:40:08 kerio, stat pin (connected to bq24150 chip) Aug 01 16:40:20 DocScrutinizer05, correct me if I'm wrong Aug 01 16:40:28 listen what's that? A bird? A wolf? An alien? - It's Joerg walking the woods with his N900 listening to IRC Aug 01 16:40:39 hm Aug 01 16:40:45 although I'm a bit concerned about your battery DocScrutinizer05 Aug 01 16:40:58 so why does charging with bme have the blinking pattern when the screen is locked? Aug 01 16:41:27 kerio: because that's what defined for that scenario at mce.ini Aug 01 16:41:34 bq2415x_charger module enable EN_STAT Aug 01 16:41:51 oh ok so it's just a matter of configuring the correct pattern in mce? Aug 01 16:41:56 my N900 never was able to stay connected to IRC for more than a couple of hours before it ran out of battery Aug 01 16:42:29 Venemo_N9: depending on traffic 6..18h on 2G Aug 01 16:42:33 more like 18 Aug 01 16:42:44 irc is awful for battery life on gprs Aug 01 16:43:16 DocScrutinizer05, that's nice! Aug 01 16:43:57 Pali: will your future bme replacement handle stuff like that so your charging module acts like bme wrt the interface? Aug 01 16:44:26 Pali: for now you weren't exactly wrong (though the factoid was a bit fuzzy) Aug 01 16:45:20 Pali: oooh you answered to kerio - then you were wrong Aug 01 16:45:32 that's emergency steady amber only Aug 01 16:46:24 emergency? D: Aug 01 16:46:43 kerio, bme replacement will also call mce dbus functions for charging pattern (maybe in hal bme plugin) Aug 01 16:47:19 ~tell kerio about flatbatrecover Aug 01 16:47:30 i know about flatbatrecover Aug 01 16:47:44 but it's definetely not emergency Aug 01 16:47:59 Pali: how T bloody F will you call dbus from kernel module? Aug 01 16:48:02 950mA until the battery is full is not emergency Aug 01 16:48:08 DocScrutinizer05: no, with an userland daemon Aug 01 16:48:14 :nod: Aug 01 16:48:19 hald-addon-fakebme Aug 01 16:48:21 or whatevs Aug 01 16:49:05 DocScrutinizer05, from hald-addon-bme Aug 01 16:49:30 kerio: I occasionally call hardware recovery charging "emergency charging" Aug 01 16:49:34 k Aug 01 16:49:53 it's an emergency charge that's quite un-emergency-y Aug 01 16:49:53 I think it is right place, because hald-addon-bme will be only one bme replacement daemon Aug 01 16:50:32 :nod: Aug 01 16:51:08 once that's running, and bq24whatever is correctly calibrated, the battery indicator will actually match the battery, right? Aug 01 16:51:20 ke-recv or other kevent-listeners come to mind, but they aren't exactly linked to bme Aug 01 16:52:21 kerio: bq27200 isn't meant to get mounted to device, so it will fail miserably when battery gets swapped Aug 01 16:52:36 never swap the battery! Aug 01 16:52:42 27x00 is for mounting *inside* battery Aug 01 16:52:47 install two batteries! Aug 01 16:53:09 Nokia 'absuded' the bq27200 Aug 01 16:53:15 abused even Aug 01 16:53:27 DocScrutinizer05: well, it'll just reset once the battery is removed and bupbat fails as usual, right? Aug 01 16:53:31 you can just recalibrate again Aug 01 16:53:42 yep Aug 01 16:53:44 usually Aug 01 16:54:11 it however can't be more off than after a reste Aug 01 16:54:14 reset Aug 01 16:55:28 dafaq I haven't even slightest idea to which values it resets. Since reset isn't any usecase specified in 'normal' datashett usage patterns Aug 01 16:56:28 except for design / last messured capacity which gets reset to some 2500mAh Aug 01 16:56:33 or somesuch Aug 01 16:56:50 DocScrutinizer05: is there a way to manually reset it? Aug 01 16:59:20 I'm not sure, but think that yes Aug 01 16:59:40 there's a command register that's writeable Aug 01 16:59:41 what about saving/loading data? Aug 01 16:59:45 i see Aug 01 17:00:24 some commands don't need special programming mode that only gets enabled with Vpp on a pin Aug 01 17:00:48 reset might be one of them Aug 01 17:01:09 setting calibration data isn't afaik Aug 01 17:01:42 ShadowJK or SpeedEvil tried it Aug 01 17:01:45 ask them Aug 01 17:02:52 but nah, I think there's no way to write anything except the "user" calculating registers, without programming mode Aug 01 17:03:19 read the datasheet, it's only some 40pp Aug 01 17:04:08 won't take longer than... errr... you maybe 1h? Aug 01 17:05:47 maybe this one also has something for you: Aug 01 17:05:57 ~batteryfaq Aug 01 17:05:58 from memory, batteryfaq is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers Aug 01 17:22:09 http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/SQL-Splits.aspx Aug 01 17:22:20 this is probably one of the worst WTFs I've seen. Aug 01 17:24:23 W**T**F??!! Aug 01 17:24:47 haha, made my day Aug 01 17:25:15 this and B52's-Lava(partymix) Aug 01 17:27:02 teotwaki: DocScrutinizer05: @work, i looked through some contractors code, and to not get a div-by-zero, zero was defined as 0.0001 Aug 01 17:27:45 LOL Aug 01 17:27:48 something like, #define newZero 0.0001 //Lets not get a divide by zero error Aug 01 17:28:13 piggz: the one I saw was: int pi = 22/7; Aug 01 17:28:37 i was appauled, becuase the code was littered with try/catch blocks, and it could have been easily caught! Aug 01 17:29:30 piggz: there is no C++ exception for division by 0. Aug 01 17:29:46 teotwaki: it was c# Aug 01 17:29:54 is there one there? Aug 01 17:30:03 oh, right, I didn't know C# used #define, my bad. Aug 01 17:30:21 might have been a const Aug 01 17:31:08 anyway Aug 01 17:31:11 I'm going home Aug 01 17:33:04 teotwaki: WUT?? int(!!) pi? Aug 01 17:33:21 DocScrutinizer: oh yeah. Aug 01 17:33:36 cool shit! Aug 01 17:35:23 * DocScrutinizer05 goes celebrating first *real* day of vacation Aug 01 17:35:53 err, well. First real evening of vacation Aug 01 17:36:34 since officially I'm in vacation since monday, but just came from work 1h ago Aug 01 17:36:36 DocScrutinizer: also: if (strlen(somestring) == true) // throw exception with message "Configuration value not set" Aug 01 17:36:44 YAY Aug 01 17:37:11 lint will explode Aug 01 17:37:11 DocScrutinizer: enjoy your holiday, I'll have my first holiday in nearly 2 years in October :) Aug 01 17:37:48 or one of my favourite, which still is in our codebase: Aug 01 17:37:51 #define 1 TRUE Aug 01 17:37:53 #define 0 FALSE Aug 01 17:37:58 #define -1 NOTSURE Aug 01 17:37:58 dang, what do you do? does each of those voip cals manual asistance? Aug 01 17:38:48 DocScrutinizer: I'm the head of engineering, in a company that hasn't had anyone in that position for as long as the company has existed. Work and challenges is not what is lacking. Aug 01 17:39:10 :-/ Aug 01 17:39:36 anyway Aug 01 17:39:43 you're terribly failing on HR Aug 01 17:39:48 'later (actually, just going home, so should be back in a few minutes) Aug 01 17:39:53 get a stand-in, dude! Aug 01 17:39:55 eh? Why are we (or me?) failing? Aug 01 17:40:00 Oh. Aug 01 17:40:13 Well, I just need to get rid of one guy to get some more resources, then we'll see. Aug 01 17:40:43 Him alone costs as much to the company as the three other engineers on the voip stack. Aug 01 17:40:54 (all three together, obviously) Aug 01 17:41:01 (HR -> Human Resources) Aug 01 17:41:23 WTF is going on here? =) Aug 01 17:41:25 MohammadAG: i have responded to your plea ;) Aug 01 17:41:31 DocScrutinizer: hey Aug 01 17:41:49 So when he goes, my budget will be a lot healthier, and I'll be able to hire someone who can really manage the engineering department Aug 01 17:42:43 * DocScrutinizer05 waves and heads out, shopping and boozetime Aug 01 17:43:22 i want beer Aug 01 17:43:54 i probably should log out/in now kde 4.9 had installed.... Aug 01 17:44:25 dafaq WUT? Aug 01 17:44:32 kde 4.9???? Aug 01 17:44:46 omg! Aug 01 17:44:50 piggz: 4.9 is out already? Aug 01 17:44:55 yes Aug 01 17:45:04 is there roadmap or plans for 5.0? Aug 01 17:45:06 today i think, there is an opensuse repo with it in Aug 01 17:45:27 though, the opensuse repo appeared on the 27th, probably when it got tagged Aug 01 17:45:57 4.7.2 here Aug 01 17:46:31 4.8.4 is here Aug 01 17:46:46 and i'm on funtoo, which uses gentoo portage as well Aug 01 17:47:14 this is most recent openSuse! Aug 01 17:47:40 opensuse is more recent than gentoo. where is this world going? Aug 01 17:47:46 well, maybe as of 4 weeks ago Aug 01 17:48:07 opensuse is most recent dist for 4 weeks or what? Aug 01 17:48:36 huh? when my kde is 4.7.2 how's that more recent than your 4.8.4? Aug 01 17:48:42 its actually 4.8.97, so, a late rc Aug 01 17:48:59 http://kde.org/announcements/4.9/ Aug 01 17:49:46 my machine is now a bastardized mix of 12.1, tumbleweed and an 4.9-rc repo :) Aug 01 17:51:16 sudo zypper ar http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Release:/49/openSUSE_12.1/KDE:Release:49.repo && sudo zypper ref && sudo zypper dup Aug 01 17:51:19 should do it ;) Aug 01 17:52:15 brb Aug 01 17:54:28 DocScrutinizer: there are most times 0.999 version in gentoo or git version straight from git/svn/other. So it's wierd to see opensuse getting it before us Aug 01 17:54:48 ~seen robbiethe1st Aug 01 17:54:53 robbiethe1st <~robbiethe@50-37-128-155.mscw.id.frontiernet.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 14h 8m 18s ago, saying: 'K'. Aug 01 17:54:55 anyway i don't use KDE Aug 01 17:54:57 hm Aug 01 17:55:01 and i hate actually KDE =) Aug 01 17:55:15 backupmenu installing itself in /usr/ is against FHS Aug 01 17:55:19 ;3Q Aug 01 17:55:25 or something like that Aug 01 17:55:27 woops, sorry :P Aug 01 17:56:32 well, its still working ;) Aug 01 17:56:57 kerio: quite Aug 01 17:57:58 ~optification Aug 01 17:57:58 optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3" Aug 01 17:58:16 DocScrutinizer05: backupmenu is really small, and (could be) needed to boot Aug 01 17:58:26 yep Aug 01 17:58:39 definitely needs to go to /8s)bin Aug 01 17:58:50 well if nobody starts respecting FHS we'll never get rid of optification Aug 01 17:58:51 (s)bin even Aug 01 17:59:47 ooh we will, as soon as Lennart poetterings us with systemd Aug 01 18:00:05 what's systemd? Aug 01 18:00:11 a brainfuck Aug 01 18:00:35 oh, upstart replacement? Aug 01 18:00:45 the upstartd ala poettering Aug 01 18:01:00 why does that help with optification? Aug 01 18:01:12 it declares /usr obsolete Aug 01 18:01:16 wat Aug 01 18:01:23 yeah :-S Aug 01 18:01:34 sure, if you have a bigass / Aug 01 18:01:41 ...why don't we have a bigass /? Aug 01 18:05:10 my fedora on CF-29 already has no /usr anymore Aug 01 18:05:34 no seriously Aug 01 18:05:41 there's plenty of space on emmc Aug 01 18:05:44 /usr/sbin just symlink to /sbin (or was it other way round?) Aug 01 18:05:46 is the nand much faster? Aug 01 18:07:00 my WTF when I checked that friggin fedora distri Aug 01 18:07:15 try gobolinux >:D Aug 01 18:07:39 kerio: (faster?) no, earlier Aug 01 18:09:17 if this continues that some retards fsckup linux, I have to do the Linux and fork Joergux Aug 01 18:09:53 s/the Linux/the Linus/ Aug 01 18:09:56 DocScrutinizer05 meant: if this continues that some retards fsckup linux, I have to do the Linus and fork Joergux Aug 01 18:10:29 or switch to BSD Aug 01 18:11:06 ~nuke redhat Aug 01 18:11:07 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at redhat ... B☢☢M! Aug 01 18:11:27 ~nuke canonical Aug 01 18:11:28 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at canonical ... B☢☢M! Aug 01 18:23:31 Re bq27200 - after reset it defaults to 2048 mAh Aug 01 18:23:43 it's true that it gets confused after swapping battery Aug 01 18:24:26 OTOH, I'm glad that Nokians put it inside device, because with simial;r chip sitting ionside battery a) batteries would be more expensive and less modable) b) vendors could impose shit limits like "refuse to work after 500 charge cycles" Aug 01 18:25:09 sitting inside N900, and with batteries containing only basic safety PCB, we're at least sure than no one f*** us on faking data about battery, which is common in notebook world (where such chips *always* sit inside battery) Aug 01 18:36:22 DocScrutinizer, ping Aug 01 19:21:13 t Aug 01 19:24:15 u Aug 01 19:31:06 Fucking Mac os x Aug 01 19:44:49 MohammadAG: don't do it, you are too young for this Aug 01 20:02:45 ZogG_laptop: I'll pretend I didn't hear that :P Aug 01 20:03:13 I really don't get, I got to the setup and all, and it shows me a weird animation Aug 01 20:03:37 An image of a mac(?) with an arrow pointing to the power key Aug 01 20:03:42 MohammadAG: btw sorry to bug you, but do you still want to give out extra n900 and did you check if you can? Aug 01 20:04:04 Didn't check :/ Aug 01 20:08:31 DocScrutinizer05: would you advise for and/or against rootfs on emmc? Aug 01 21:00:52 kerio / DocScrutinizer : There's indeed a way to write to bq27200. I've used it. It requires pretty specific battery conditions and use both before and afterwards, so it's no one-tap "make the numbers right" solution Aug 01 21:01:26 Estel_, do you have the whole sdcard for swap or only a partition for swap? Aug 01 21:01:39 trumee: i have a partition for swap Aug 01 21:01:40 2gb Aug 01 21:02:00 who would use the whole SD for swap? Aug 01 21:02:05 kerio, and emmc swap too? Aug 01 21:02:08 DocScrutinizer05: people with a very small SD Aug 01 21:02:21 trumee: yeah, i put them on the same priority to get "striping" of some sorts Aug 01 21:02:23 trumee, partition on microSd. I have 32 Gb microiSd, so it would be overkill ;) Aug 01 21:02:33 DocScrutinizer, dunno, something i had read on tmo/wiki Aug 01 21:02:33 otherwise, you get decreased speeds Aug 01 21:02:40 emmc is still a lot faster than usd Aug 01 21:02:44 using both emmc swpa and microSd swap is stupid Aug 01 21:02:52 eMMC swap always result in problems during heavy-swap load Aug 01 21:02:53 s/lot/lot (?)/ Aug 01 21:03:01 D: Aug 01 21:03:03 not to mention wear&tear on unreplaceable internal memory Aug 01 21:03:03 are you sure? Aug 01 21:03:04 (faster) depends Aug 01 21:03:09 absolutely sure Aug 01 21:03:28 meh, i'm disabling the internal swap then Aug 01 21:03:33 swap should sit on microSd ONLY - You may have backup swap on eMMC, for situations, where you newed to take microSd out, but normally it should be disabled Aug 01 21:03:34 you could download lolcats for the rest of your life and still not wear out SD. Aug 01 21:03:37 i'm using a sandisk sdhc class 2 Aug 01 21:03:47 This is not 1996 anymore. Aug 01 21:03:49 vi__: :3 Aug 01 21:03:55 SanDisk microSDHC class 4 here, 32 GB Aug 01 21:03:58 genuine Aug 01 21:04:05 i want one :c Aug 01 21:04:07 needed to pay 17 USD for it, including shipping! Aug 01 21:04:14 i don't think this one is actually that good Aug 01 21:04:25 hunted for it for 3 weeks, though Aug 01 21:04:38 i wonder how to benchmark it, actually Aug 01 21:04:51 random write matters, only Aug 01 21:04:57 DocScrutinizer, last para of http://wiki.maemo.org/Swap_on_microSD Aug 01 21:05:03 yeah, i wonder how to actually benchmark that Aug 01 21:05:03 ShadowJK, could You elaborate more about writing to bq27200? Aug 01 21:05:14 even if it's not fool proof, it's interesting Aug 01 21:05:28 hrmpf, there's no way to disable internal swap with swapset Aug 01 21:05:32 it's all in the datasheet Aug 01 21:05:34 trumee, afaik this wiki article is severy outdated Aug 01 21:05:54 kerio, file a feature request Aug 01 21:06:24 Estel_, so where is the latest info? Aug 01 21:06:37 spread over TMO threads ;P Aug 01 21:06:45 see thread about ereswap and swapset Aug 01 21:07:00 and easy debian one, somewhere around last 20 pages, have some I/O settings proposed Aug 01 21:07:12 kerio, wanna be useful train? Maybe You could gather it and update wiki article?:P Aug 01 21:07:14 world's wisdom and more is spread over tmo, and probably the universal formula as well Aug 01 21:07:21 would do it myself, although i'm fighting with Ed wheezy now Aug 01 21:07:34 :) Aug 01 21:08:01 DocScrutinizer, see cssu channel and question for You :) Aug 01 21:08:16 i wonder if it's worth it to add another swap partition to my uSD so i can switch between the two when i want to defrag the swap Aug 01 21:08:53 see my answer Aug 01 21:11:02 Estel_: oooooh there's a class 4 microsdhc from sandisk on amazon IT Aug 01 21:13:25 DocScrutinizer, Pali is sure that those nubmers should be in direct mA values Aug 01 21:13:31 care to elaborate more? Aug 01 21:14:42 from "other barrel of vine" all, please see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1246220#post1246042 and post following Aug 01 21:14:51 Nokia agreed to transfer maemo.org domain to hildon foundation Aug 01 21:15:21 hoever, as per my bets knowledge, council doesn't see referendum about bylaws their proposed (and overall, organization of foundation) as necessary Aug 01 21:16:09 I think that foundation, that is going to get community-belonging (as per qgil statement) databases, domain, etc, should follow acceptance of it's rules via referendum and overall community approval Aug 01 21:16:47 especially, that new entity will not only maintain databases and all community belongings we're able to scavenge from Nokia, but also finances of new foundation Aug 01 21:17:54 (i.e. money from donations). It's very important to have foundation bylaws reviewed and approved by Community, and while I don't suspect malicious purposes, Council stance (that might have changed already, or might change in future, might You) of no-referendum approach is little worrying Aug 01 21:23:10 Estel_: just bought a sandisk 32gb class 4 µsdhc :D :D :D :D Aug 01 21:23:13 :D :D :D :D :D Aug 01 21:23:26 nice :) Aug 01 21:23:28 how much? Aug 01 21:23:36 be sure to check with sandisk tech support, if it's genuine Aug 01 21:23:39 18€ with 3€ for 1-day shipping Aug 01 21:23:42 (using serial numbers of card) Aug 01 21:23:47 hell, i'm buying it from amazon Aug 01 21:23:57 hm? Aug 01 21:24:00 mind share a link? Aug 01 21:24:12 s/share/sharing/ Aug 01 21:24:16 http://www.amazon.it/Sandisk-SDSDQ-032G-E11M-Class-Micro-SDHC-32768/dp/B003HIWHN0/ Aug 01 21:24:25 it'll be kinda useless if you don't live in italy, though :) Aug 01 21:24:25 ~ping Aug 01 21:24:39 ~ping Aug 01 21:24:51 interesting Aug 01 21:24:51 denied! Aug 01 21:25:10 seems that someone spend too much time rising ego, instead of walking through woods, eh ;) Aug 01 21:25:16 Estel_: it definetely *feels* genuine Aug 01 21:25:19 thanks, kerio Aug 01 21:25:48 is it new/used? Aug 01 21:25:49 hrmpf, that model name is listed everywhere as class 2 Aug 01 21:25:52 packages, or as card itself? Aug 01 21:25:59 it's sold from amazon.it Aug 01 21:26:10 so... brand new, with packaging? Aug 01 21:26:14 hope so Aug 01 21:26:20 amazod used to offer used things too Aug 01 21:26:42 SanDisk - Carte mémoire flash - 32 Go - Class 2 - Aug 01 21:26:43 ...wtf Aug 01 21:26:52 ;) Aug 01 21:26:57 oh well, the class 2 32gb uSD has faster random writes anyway Aug 01 21:27:02 nope Aug 01 21:27:03 and i'll complain and get my money back Aug 01 21:27:05 class 4 is fastest Aug 01 21:27:06 everyone wins! Aug 01 21:27:17 iit goes down from 6 and through 10 Aug 01 21:27:19 it's probably Aug 01 21:27:21 http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/5071/screenshot20110611at120.png benchmarks on xda-developers Aug 01 21:27:22 4>2>6>10 Aug 01 21:27:45 that's for 4k writes though Aug 01 21:27:49 no idea about xda fanboysd, but test with booting debian or ubuntu times proved class 4 to be fastest Aug 01 21:28:14 btw class 4 is hardest to get Aug 01 21:28:24 sandisk did some upscalling classes later Aug 01 21:28:29 probably making 4 -> 6 Aug 01 21:28:35 and marking them as two-color, expensive "ultra" Aug 01 21:28:50 while 6 became 10, probably Aug 01 21:30:55 well, i've got class 10 sandisk Aug 01 21:31:03 jacekowski: ew Aug 01 21:31:05 and it's faster than class 6 from sandisk Aug 01 21:31:11 jacekowski: condolences Aug 01 21:31:23 class 10 or uhs-1 Aug 01 21:31:26 wait a sec Aug 01 21:32:00 uhs-1 class 10 Aug 01 21:32:03 and it's pretty fast Aug 01 21:32:12 as in, so fast it's fastest of all other cards i've tried Aug 01 21:32:13 it's incredibly fast for sequential stuff Aug 01 21:32:22 in hdperf that's what? Aug 01 21:32:25 that's what i need it for Aug 01 21:32:31 45MB/s claimed Aug 01 21:32:31 but... swap! Aug 01 21:32:36 seems about right Aug 01 21:32:58 i can shoot RAWs at around 3photos/s Aug 01 21:33:18 and it's about 10-15MB/photo Aug 01 21:33:18 sequential write, yeah Aug 01 21:33:26 that's what they're optimized for Aug 01 21:33:40 well, those are meant for cameras and camcorders Aug 01 21:34:11 on random writes/reads they are inferior to 4 I heard Aug 01 21:34:49 i'm just wondering how Aug 01 21:35:18 idea: swap on EyeFi Aug 01 21:35:26 get your ram on the cloud Aug 01 21:35:40 http://hdperf.sourceforge.net/ Aug 01 21:36:05 DocScrutinizer05: E: Couldn't find package hdperf Aug 01 21:36:06 :( Aug 01 21:36:26 is there a windows version of it Aug 01 21:36:45 you! evil! Aug 01 21:41:45 ok, i've rebooted Aug 01 21:43:05 Estel_: right now i'm using a sandisk class 2, and it's not bad either Aug 01 21:43:06 16gb Aug 01 21:45:39 hm, do microsds lose performance over time? Aug 01 21:46:15 yes Aug 01 21:46:20 every flash memory does Aug 01 21:46:34 yeah but i mean Aug 01 21:46:40 once they're written once? Aug 01 21:47:03 yes Aug 01 21:47:03 or over time? Aug 01 21:47:11 both Aug 01 21:47:15 :c Aug 01 21:47:26 how do we know all these microsd benchmarks were done after the cards were written to? Aug 01 21:47:33 ~botsnack Aug 01 21:47:38 it's not as much on SD cards Aug 01 21:47:49 as on SSD drives and stuff Aug 01 21:48:10 well, performance loss after write on SSD only happens if you don't properly discard Aug 01 21:48:21 no Aug 01 21:48:23 not only Aug 01 21:48:30 well, mostly? Aug 01 21:48:36 SSD performance degrades over time Aug 01 21:48:38 http://www.heise.de/download/h2benchw.html http://www.heise.de/download/h2benchw.html Aug 01 21:48:40 just because it's flash memory Aug 01 21:48:42 ~ping Aug 01 21:48:46 whatever Aug 01 21:48:49 oops Aug 01 21:48:58 http://www.heise.de/download/as-ssd-benchmark.html Aug 01 21:49:15 german, german everywhere Aug 01 21:49:34 ok, sandisk UHS-1 Aug 01 21:49:38 http://pastebin.com/iCiVGm6Y Aug 01 21:49:45 i'm not patient enough to let it do all Aug 01 21:50:46 class 6 eyefi seems to be faster according to this benchmark Aug 01 21:50:55 and i know for a fact that it isn't Aug 01 21:51:03 Regarding the microSDHC 32GB SanDisk of class-2 has been improved up to Class-4, but anyway it´s important to say that class means minimun write speed guaranteed but not máx. speed. Aug 01 21:51:04 oh lawds Aug 01 21:51:24 so i bought an old class2 :c Aug 01 21:54:02 * DocScrutinizer05 burps Aug 01 21:54:53 meh, i already have a class2 Aug 01 21:54:59 i'ma cancel this Aug 01 21:55:47 according to all benchmarks done on PC that class 10 sandisk is slower Aug 01 21:55:53 a lot slower Aug 01 21:56:22 but on that card i can hold shutter and it will continue taking photos Aug 01 21:56:33 as in, it will write it fast enough that buffer will not fill up Aug 01 21:56:43 Estel_: is your class 4 a real class 4? Aug 01 21:56:49 on eyefi or class 4 sandisk i've got it will fill up the buffer Aug 01 21:56:54 because it is slower for all purpoises, EXCEPT raw bulk write Aug 01 21:57:05 they're usable on on digital cameras/video recorders Aug 01 21:57:06 i've done raw bulk write Aug 01 21:57:16 copy 100MB file to it Aug 01 21:57:20 pioty that sandisk advertise them as good candidate for tablets and mobiles Aug 01 21:57:21 Estel_: what's your model number, actually? Aug 01 21:57:24 class 10 is a hoax. Aug 01 21:57:37 http://www.heise.de/download/phoronix-test-suite-1156799.html Aug 01 21:57:39 it takes exactly 10s on eyefi and 15s on class10 sandisk Aug 01 21:57:43 kerio, class 4 Sandisk 32 GB, no model numbe,r it's from times before sandisk introduced custom marketing names like UHS Aug 01 21:57:57 meh, i'm actually going to cancel this purchase Aug 01 21:58:07 i already have a class 2 sandisk Aug 01 21:58:10 this won't be much better Aug 01 21:58:10 well, generally, class rating is a hoax Aug 01 21:58:14 Sandisk have good cards Aug 01 21:58:16 Thay have seriously fucked up the insides of the uSD just to get fast W/R sequential. Aug 01 21:58:24 kingston class 10 performs inferior to sandisk class 2 Aug 01 21:58:26 etc Aug 01 21:58:34 sadly, card manufacturers focus on bulk write only Aug 01 21:58:38 while we need random write/read Aug 01 21:58:53 we need a RAM that fits in a uSD slot Aug 01 21:59:01 that's why for our purposes, SanDisk class 4 owns everything. class 2 isn't bad, i used it for entire years before purchasing this class 4 32 microSD Aug 01 21:59:06 Estel_: that's what most people use it for Aug 01 21:59:13 in fact, swappiong killed my 2 8GB class 2 ones Aug 01 21:59:29 jacekowski, not anymore. more cards are in mobiles and tablets, nowadays Aug 01 21:59:35 Estel_: technically i'm buying a class 4 32gb microsd, but it's apparently a kinda recent BS change and it used to be a class 2 Aug 01 21:59:35 than inside camcoders and cameras Aug 01 21:59:51 there is no such thing as cheap flash memory. even amazon is full of fakes. Aug 01 22:00:00 price isn't bad, anyway Aug 01 22:00:04 Kingston stuff is all over the place Aug 01 22:00:11 if price is good, it is a fake. Aug 01 22:00:13 hrmpf, decisions... Aug 01 22:00:16 and recently, sandisk stopped producing class 4 anyway, so if You're able to purchase one with C4 mark on it Aug 01 22:00:18 and it's genuine Aug 01 22:00:20 it should be OK Aug 01 22:00:28 kerio: then get a RAM that fits into uSD slot! Aug 01 22:00:30 after BS "upgrade" 3->6,. class 4 disappeared entirely Aug 01 22:00:44 vi_, fake from amazon shop? ;) Aug 01 22:00:47 kerio is buyinmg from there Aug 01 22:00:48 kerio: with uSD you do not get bargains. Aug 01 22:00:55 You only get fakes. Aug 01 22:00:57 I bought one used for 3 months, so I checked originality with sandisk Aug 01 22:01:08 Estel_: this is an upgraded 2->4, but i don't know if the benchmarks for class 4 sds are for the old ones Aug 01 22:01:11 Estel_: yes, fake from amazon shop. Aug 01 22:01:13 vi_, well, i bought genuine 32GB class 4 for 17 usd incl. shipping Aug 01 22:01:15 Estel_: used to store movies and mp3's Aug 01 22:01:27 Estel_: sure. Aug 01 22:01:52 vi_, seriously :) Aug 01 22:02:13 before buying, assured seller (which was 16 years old junior on wanna-be-ebay polish site) that I will check originality Aug 01 22:02:23 Estel_: if price is good, it is a fake. Aug 01 22:02:25 and terrorized him with Sandisk charging huge ammounts for selling fakes Aug 01 22:02:35 well, I got it, and checked serial nubmers with sandisk Aug 01 22:02:41 Estel_: if price is good, it is a fake. Aug 01 22:02:43 it's true, bought in media markt 3 months ago Aug 01 22:02:55 Estel_: if price is good, it is a fake. Aug 01 22:02:56 s/true/genuine/ Aug 01 22:03:05 yea, and "you won't hijack cssu" Aug 01 22:03:07 ;) Aug 01 22:03:30 what? Aug 01 22:03:39 well, it seems you were absent, then Aug 01 22:03:48 when? Aug 01 22:04:16 many months ago, there was a little discussion - first of this kind - between me and DocScrutinizer abnout cssu principles. At some point, his every reply to whatever sentence wirtten by anyone - be it me, freemangordon or Woody - was "you won't hijack CSSU" Aug 01 22:04:37 it become kinda "contextual gag" since then Aug 01 22:04:57 Estel_: He is a principled engineer. It goes with the turf. Aug 01 22:05:04 ;) Aug 01 22:05:26 but, with enough hunting, it's possible to buy genuine sandisk class 4, from old supplied, for v. good price Aug 01 22:05:44 personally, I had auto-searching bot turned on fro 3 weeks, that informed me about new sd cards for sale on such sites Aug 01 22:05:47 wanna-be-ebays Aug 01 22:06:14 he wanted to sell it for more, but I convinced him that 17 USd is max that he can get Aug 01 22:06:18 *cough* Aug 01 22:06:41 years of rpactice on wanna-be-eaby sites Aug 01 22:06:46 practice, even Aug 01 22:07:01 £(my time spent hunting for bargains)>savings Aug 01 22:07:09 bot hunt for me Aug 01 22:07:19 I just get daily raports to mail Aug 01 22:07:25 with new offers Aug 01 22:07:42 of course oens that ar ein line with my search criteria Aug 01 22:07:50 i.e. below certain price, and containing certan words Aug 01 22:08:24 btwm how collecting pledges for zeq device goes? Have they send it already? Aug 01 22:10:32 well, nokia is selling QT Aug 01 22:10:51 anyone wannja buy? I could donate 0.10 $ Aug 01 22:11:25 * DocScrutinizer05 sighs, throws in another 10ct Aug 01 22:11:39 * kerio throws in his 0.02 Aug 01 22:12:28 vi__: what's with zeq's device? Aug 01 22:13:40 do i need to google for tmo zeq n900? Aug 01 22:18:36 rather for [call to arms!] Aug 01 22:18:48 on TMO Aug 01 22:19:38 DocScrutinizer, asking it last time - do You care to elaborate more about this method of calculating sysfs entries for bq2415x_charger, which Pali belives that *should* be direct mA values? Aug 01 22:20:02 yes Aug 01 22:20:09 You're probably right that it's in specification, somewhere, but if You know it already, it's kinda useless to send someone into reading 40 or more pages document Aug 01 22:20:18 i.e. doing the same work again :0 Aug 01 22:20:23 i'll be thankful, if You could explain it Aug 01 22:20:28 of course if You remember it Aug 01 22:20:58 especially interesting for me, if it's bug, that termination_current is 6550 by default, but when you change it to something else, it refguse to accept own default value again... Aug 01 22:21:08 and is either 6500 (should mean 50 mA) Aug 01 22:21:25 or 6800 (no idea what is it =- max value should be 6850, which would correspond to 400 mA) Aug 01 22:21:41 i.e. whjatever You put there, it changes itself to either 6500 or 6800 Aug 01 22:21:56 also, whyy such strange numbers, instead of real mA values as expected by Pali? Aug 01 22:22:00 sorry, nfc Aug 01 22:22:15 termination_current may be a bug Aug 01 22:22:34 charge_current is 1750 by default, which mean 950, and it's constantly in line when changed Aug 01 22:22:38 i.e. 2050 is 1250 Aug 01 22:22:46 300 more than 950, 300 more than 1750 Aug 01 22:22:58 so maybe You remember why so strange numbers? Aug 01 22:23:06 1750 -> 950 mA etc? Aug 01 22:23:07 lots of gibberish to me Aug 01 22:23:16 Pali expect it to be 950 -> 950 mA Aug 01 22:23:19 I see Aug 01 22:23:28 well, he said it's derived directly from Your implementation :p Aug 01 22:24:54 Estel_: it's typical for raw hw sensor values to require processing with a formula derived from the datasheet. Aug 01 22:25:00 no faintest clue what you're talking about Aug 01 22:25:21 Estel_: look into lm_sensors Aug 01 22:25:27 zeq, erxactly, thats why I'm surprised that Pali sees it as direct ma values Aug 01 22:25:37 DocScrutinizer, here is relevant part of source code: Aug 01 22:25:38 https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=kernel-power;a=blob;f=kernel-power-2.6.28/debian/patches/bq2415x_charger.patch;hb=HEAD#l1319 Aug 01 22:25:47 zeq1: that's not how this API got specified by me. No idea if pali tried to implement this API the way I specified it or not Aug 01 22:25:48 maybe it will make it easier for black magicians ;) Aug 01 22:26:00 he said he tried to implement it the way You specified it Aug 01 22:26:11 ...to the point fo sendiong me to you about possible bugs ;p Aug 01 22:26:19 s/sendiong/sending/ Aug 01 22:26:19 lol Aug 01 22:26:47 * dhbiker pokes uroskn Aug 01 22:27:12 what am I supposed to do now? explain why somebody else's code behaves in a way that's not in line with my RFC? Aug 01 22:27:38 DocScrutinizer, seems like it's what Pali mean ;) Aug 01 22:27:43 judging by: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/bq24150-sysnode.spec.txt Aug 01 22:27:48 it *should* be direct mA Aug 01 22:28:30 we might argue whether that should be uA like on all other power/battery related stuff, but beyond that I dunno what to do Aug 01 22:28:39 well, as author of this formula, maybe You would be able to spot where Pali's code fail to follow it? His intentions was to follow it Aug 01 22:28:52 * Estel_ nods Aug 01 22:29:27 I'll forward irc log to him and try to convince him into looking for bugs inc doe himself, I've described behavior with details in bug report (which value act how and when) Aug 01 22:29:31 I might proofread the source Aug 01 22:29:36 but not today Aug 01 22:30:50 * DocScrutinizer05 is on vacancy today Aug 01 22:31:37 I know, have a nice holiday :) Aug 01 22:32:01 and don't discuss with squirrels about ABI compatibility! Aug 01 22:32:05 ;) Aug 01 22:33:01 I'm starting my holidays day after tommorow - with lake, woods, river, fishing and possibility of being out of mobile network coverage Aug 01 22:35:23 zeq1: raw values are in R0 .. Rnn register sysnodes Aug 01 22:35:47 the value sysnodes however are bitmasked and normalized plain values Aug 01 22:36:18 evrything else is neither raw nor plain, and thus insane Aug 01 22:37:08 USB-curlim r/w 1[7:6] "100" (00) 100mA USB input current limit Aug 01 22:37:09 "500" (01) 500mA Aug 01 22:37:11 "800" (10) 800mA Aug 01 22:37:12 "1200" (11) unlimited Aug 01 22:37:23 more useful that way. I think the only reason that's not the norm with most sensor drivers is the configuration is usually board specific Aug 01 22:37:34 what else could you expose/accept in this sysnode, for example? 0 .. 3 ? Aug 01 22:39:28 there's one board config specific parameter: RS (shunt resistor). I suggested module takes a sane default that you can override with module loadtime parameter Aug 01 22:40:09 modprobe bq24150 RS=68 Aug 01 22:40:27 nice solution Aug 01 22:40:56 I'm off to sleep now, night everybody! Aug 01 22:41:01 n8 Aug 01 22:41:07 * DocScrutinizer05 afk Aug 01 22:43:05 Estel_: actually the two values affected by this RS are chterm_thld and CC Aug 01 22:43:30 so if RS is way off, you'll see way off values in those sysnodes Aug 01 22:43:48 https://twitter.com/SadaoTurner/status/230737352958566401/photo/1/large Aug 01 22:44:01 o/ Aug 01 22:44:49 DocScrutinizer, thanks Aug 01 22:45:09 will investigate it. I wonder if modprobe bq24150 RS=68 works now Aug 01 22:45:14 9in current implementation) Aug 01 22:45:22 but I wonder how insane values we would need to make 950 -> 1750 Aug 01 22:45:42 and termiantion current 100 -> 6550 Aug 01 22:47:19 please ponjt me to the proper ticker addr Aug 01 22:47:26 point* Aug 01 22:48:23 it's per design that driver picks min valid value when you set a too low value, and it picks max valid if you write a too high one Aug 01 22:48:46 min and max valid are determined by RS Aug 01 22:50:38 Battery low threshold, 3V4+200mV+100mV Aug 01 22:50:40 writing valid positive base10 Aug 01 22:50:41 <3400 ->3400 Aug 01 22:50:43 >3700 ->3700 Aug 01 22:50:44 nn00..nn99 ->nn00 Aug 01 22:50:55 this one NOT related to RS Aug 01 22:57:06 Estel_: does ereswap use "swap2" to cycle the swap? Aug 01 22:57:48 DocScrutinizer, values with voltage are OK Aug 01 22:58:18 ticket? there is no ticker, kernel-power 51r1 is in -devel, and bq2415x_charger is even more develish, everything is resolve din TMO thread, for now Aug 01 22:59:03 See this: modprobe bq24150 RS=68 Aug 01 22:59:06 damn Aug 01 22:59:07 not this Aug 01 22:59:14 this: Aug 01 22:59:16 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1245675&postcount=82 Aug 01 22:59:34 this: Aug 01 22:59:35 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1245675&postcount=82 Aug 01 22:59:56 and this: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1245675&postcount=82 Aug 01 22:59:59 DocScrutinizer, ^^ Aug 01 23:00:14 despite possible problems with RS, which is good point, I think that there is additional bug with termination_current Aug 01 23:00:22 as it doesn't only fix itself to max and min possible values... Aug 01 23:00:42 but also accept ONLY min and max values, nothing in between, even value that was set by default Aug 01 23:00:51 if You touch it once, You can't get back, until you reload module Aug 01 23:03:03 yeah, bug Aug 01 23:22:55 Estel_; basically you charge full, disconnect charger, immediately write AR, write command register, write the execute to command reg pair.. discharge battery to empty (6%, edv1 1) Aug 01 23:24:14 ShadowJK, thanks, but "write AR"? By which means? Aug 01 23:24:19 same for "register" Aug 01 23:24:42 and, basically, which values we're able to edit, this way? Aug 01 23:24:57 re flash, I have sandisk c4, sandisk c2 in older braniding, and sandisk c4 new branding. the new c4 is slowe than old c2 for 4k random write :P Aug 01 23:25:18 :c Aug 01 23:25:48 so class rating seems pretty useless Aug 01 23:25:53 but new c4*isn't* black card with C4 mark, yep? Aug 01 23:26:05 thosw xda dev results look more like old sandisk in the top Aug 01 23:29:02 Estel_> ShadowJK, thanks, but "write AR"? By which means? Aug 01 23:29:14 just in case it slipped from Your attention :) Aug 01 23:29:21 Estel_: the new c4 is a black card with a c4 mark Aug 01 23:29:34 ShadowJK: meh, i'll make use of the extra space i guess Aug 01 23:30:54 suuuure... dist-upgrade to wheezy - as said earlier, 875 MB to download, 725 more used after installation. But now, I purged network-manager and network-manager-gnome, and replaced it with wicd... Aug 01 23:31:00 result - 175 less space used Aug 01 23:31:13 due to auto-removing 2353245432543 of gnome-related packages Aug 01 23:31:17 gnome, ffs Aug 01 23:31:47 * Estel_ is updating Easy Debian image to wheezy) Aug 01 23:33:07 Estel_; there are like 3 registers on bq27w00 that must be written in the correct order with the correct values, without risk of kernel drivers or bme accessing the chip simultaneously, and also the battery state must be fully charged (within 98%+ actually), then after a full discharge must be performed, after which the chip will set battery capacity when full to measured discharge +-6% of the value written into the AR register Aug 01 23:34:04 I see. Written via i2cset? Aug 01 23:35:02 so this means it's a shortcut to, if you know actual battery capacity beforehand, learn the capacity with only one cycle instead of 4 Aug 01 23:35:02 also, what is gain of that? If we charge fully, then discharge to edv1 with VDQ1, it updates capacity anyway. so what use is for writing something manuallu? What we can write, actually? Aug 01 23:35:09 ahhh Aug 01 23:35:50 so I can have current value 2000, then call 3000 when batteyr is full, discharge to edv1, and it will register 3000 without bitching about too big change in capacity? Aug 01 23:36:15 well that's the easiest tool available :P Aug 01 23:38:05 so last question, if You don't mind - do you have, somewhere nearby, registers that we need to access, and order of doing so? Aug 01 23:38:14 would like to experiment with it, after charging battery to full Aug 01 23:38:26 I suppose it's in datasheet, but if You already know it, no use in searching for it again... Aug 01 23:38:56 we can't change things like edv1 treshold, and so goes on, via any means? Aug 01 23:40:37 I don't remembe it, and it took me 5 passes through datasheet to figure it out Aug 01 23:40:53 :) thanks, i'll search for it on my own Aug 01 23:40:59 (thought that You've written it somewhere) Aug 01 23:41:17 one thing I do remember is that some of the registers have different meaning/contents/function depending on whether you read or write Aug 01 23:43:03 hm Aug 02 00:07:34 ,you can't change stuff like EDV threshold Aug 02 00:07:41 hardcoded Aug 02 00:28:32 woah what happened to infobot? Aug 02 00:28:39 He's called povbot now? Aug 02 00:37:57 quick question: how come nice values are not always inherited? Aug 02 01:03:15 Hi Aug 02 01:07:03 * ShadowJK wonders if ohmd is readjusting nice values and other limits Aug 02 01:07:54 Estel_; i havent published anything because I worried people would try to run it same time as bme, battery modules, or indeed simultaneous with bq27200 or charge script Aug 02 01:08:20 and/or on pk versions allowing simultaneous access Aug 02 01:09:15 :) Aug 02 01:10:05 * RST38h moos Aug 02 01:10:25 ShadowJK, read this http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83447&page=5 Aug 02 01:10:39 specifrically the post by kli (who did the various OHM work in the N900) Aug 02 01:10:41 Nokia closes off Australian unit responsible for QtMobile and friends Aug 02 01:11:21 it confirms that yes, the OHM daemon (and specifically the policy stuff) does affect CPU allocation depending on what events happen Aug 02 01:15:37 povbot: seen infobot Aug 02 01:15:37 DocScrutinizer05: infobot was last seen in #maemo 7 hours, 4 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at canonical ... B☢☢M! Aug 02 01:16:34 RST38h: moo Aug 02 01:16:49 jonwil: hi fella Aug 02 01:16:55 hi Aug 02 01:17:53 * DocScrutinizer05 hands out a few virtual invitations to a very realy BBQ in 18h Aug 02 01:18:13 I'm not at my octo-core 8gig ram supercomputer atm, so huge slow js layout heavy pages like tmo are a pain to load :P Aug 02 01:18:29 The BBQ roasting on a bunch of OC'd N900s? Aug 02 01:18:41 robbiethe1st: hey hi!!! Aug 02 01:18:44 ...Or maybe Xboxes? Aug 02 01:18:53 charcoal Aug 02 01:19:03 No fun. :( Aug 02 01:19:18 but best quality argentinian or irish beef Aug 02 01:19:25 Cool Aug 02 01:20:25 anybody near north bavaria? Aug 02 01:21:03 Other side of the world, man. Aug 02 01:22:12 I'll keep some few 100g and pastebin it to you Aug 02 01:22:37 :D Aug 02 01:22:39 dunno if tmo does it, but so many webforums upgraded software and firefox started hanging for 5 secs per page view on my qyadcore desktop, so I've mostly stopped reading webforums alltogether to avoid frustration Aug 02 01:22:52 I do love a good piece of steak :) Aug 02 01:24:55 ShadowJK: dafaq I encountered same BS Aug 02 01:26:23 jonwil: we all should meet at Werner Almesberger's place. He has an awesome grill and the best meat on this globe ;-) Aug 02 01:27:16 jonwil: Werner won't let you go unless you ate 500g minimum ;-D Aug 02 01:29:10 somehow it feels like we should make happen a meeting without Nokia patronage. Just those of us who wanna have a good time and love N900 Aug 02 01:30:33 prolly too late for my 10 ndays vacancy Aug 02 01:32:52 I just wish Australia wasn't so far away from everywhere else Aug 02 01:33:37 that's a genuine problem of australians ;-P Aug 02 01:34:07 jonwil: ask Rasterman how he handles that! Aug 02 01:34:27 Hey Doc Aug 02 01:34:37 Doc: Raster handled it by moving to .KR Aug 02 01:34:38 hey RST38h Aug 02 01:34:47 Missing an importand canlendar function: copy an event Aug 02 01:34:50 temporaraily Aug 02 01:35:16 But .AU and .NZ are on my emergency list in case The Big One starts Aug 02 01:35:27 LaoLang_coo_: not first one. I bitched about it 2 years ago Aug 02 01:35:33 I like Australia and dont want to move Aug 02 01:35:35 Nobody will ever want to bomb NZ Aug 02 01:35:49 jonwil: 50% chance of skin cancer though? No? Aug 02 01:35:55 DocScrutinizer05, not any changed 2 years long! Aug 02 01:35:56 RST38h: wasted money Aug 02 01:36:10 Doc? Aug 02 01:36:18 got yourself a win7 phone or what? Aug 02 01:36:29 eh??? Aug 02 01:36:43 Australia is a great place to move, we have good internet Aug 02 01:36:48 what was the "wasted money" remark about? Aug 02 01:36:49 good food Aug 02 01:37:00 and good culture Aug 02 01:37:02 got vacancy and way too litle ethanol Aug 02 01:37:54 wasted money for bombs, RST38h Aug 02 01:38:24 Australia also has a great drinking culture if thats ya thing :) Aug 02 01:38:39 yep!!! Aug 02 01:38:51 ask Rasterman! Aug 02 01:39:05 Hw'll tellya Aug 02 01:39:31 he* Aug 02 01:39:45 jonwil: and silly game regulations Aug 02 01:39:46 * DocScrutinizer05 afk for TV Aug 02 01:39:59 yeah those were recently changed Aug 02 01:40:07 and Steak BBQ local invitations Aug 02 01:40:16 really? I thought you still had 16+ as maximum rating? Aug 02 01:40:20 hi merlin1991 Aug 02 01:40:37 We are in the process of passing laws introducing an R18+ classification Aug 02 01:40:46 i.e. its going to happen, just hasn't happened yet Aug 02 01:40:50 merlin1991: come over for a really tasty steak? Aug 02 01:41:04 ah yeah not to mention REALLY WEIRD voluntary censorship by isps Aug 02 01:41:18 DocScrutinizer05: I'd love too but I'm stuck here till saturday :D Aug 02 01:41:35 s/too/to/ Aug 02 01:41:44 a pity Aug 02 01:41:46 What happened was that the government attempted to pass legislation to force ISPs to censor (presumably things like terrorist sites, hate groups, child porn etc) Aug 02 01:42:06 but public outcry, various leaks of blacklists and things caused this not to happen Aug 02 01:42:13 (infobot got raped by some hooligan) Aug 02 01:42:27 I remember a really interesting list of urls, that mainly seemed to censor in the interest of media producing corporations Aug 02 01:43:01 The government then said "ok, we will review the censorship proposals" Aug 02 01:43:15 review usually means pass it a year later ;) Aug 02 01:43:23 Thank God I'm not the facebook fan Aug 02 01:43:59 thankfully the current makeup of our parliament makes it very hard for the government to pass laws like this Aug 02 01:44:16 otherwise our little garden would get trampled to the ground by 10.000 Aug 02 01:44:35 They have to negotiate with other parties who (last I checked) are not censorship friendly Aug 02 01:44:53 o/ Aug 02 01:44:54 jonwil: though other than that I currently can't name any bad points about your homecountry :D Aug 02 01:45:12 What did happen is that a few ISPs (including Telstra, the biggest one) agreed to voluntarily filter against an Interpol blacklist Aug 02 01:45:19 me, I trust that an Aug 02 01:45:34 an Interpol blacklist is likely to be better than one decided by a government department Aug 02 01:46:19 lol Aug 02 01:46:32 i guess i'm not safe anymore Aug 02 01:46:34 since Interpol presumably is more likely to put the genuinely bad stuff (child porn, hate sites etc) on the list and not just the stuff that might embarrass someone or whatever Aug 02 01:46:39 * RiD runs from Interpol Aug 02 01:46:46 Australia being the biggest coal exporter worldwide... Aug 02 01:47:11 personally I think coal is dirty evil stuff and the less of it we burn, the better Aug 02 01:47:28 We should be looking at ways to generate our electricity using anything but coal Aug 02 01:47:29 ~seen raster Aug 02 01:47:40 dead bot is dead Aug 02 01:47:42 meh! Aug 02 01:47:55 what happened to infobot? Aug 02 01:47:56 yeah she's dead Aug 02 01:48:17 sb killed tim's server Aug 02 01:48:23 hm with all the deserts you have you should be able to generate quite some electricity via alternative methods? Aug 02 01:48:38 povbot: seen raster Aug 02 01:48:38 DocScrutinizer05: raster was last seen in #maemo 2 years, 1 week, 1 day, 14 hours, 42 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: moo Aug 02 01:48:51 LOLWUIT!?"! Aug 02 01:49:03 o_o Aug 02 01:49:05 well the governments dont want to spend the money to implement alternatives to coal Aug 02 01:49:11 povbot: seen DocScrutinizer05 Aug 02 01:49:11 RiD: DocScrutinizer05 was last seen in #maemo 19 seconds ago: LOLWUIT!?"! Aug 02 01:49:14 government/private business Aug 02 01:49:18 because coal is cheap and reliable Aug 02 01:49:41 although the local power company around here does have a few wind turbines around the place Aug 02 01:49:48 and also a bunch of power plants using natural gas Aug 02 01:49:52 TV/stereo Aug 02 01:49:53 as well as the coal Aug 02 01:49:54 o/ Aug 02 01:50:25 what has tv/stereo to do with coal and power companies? Aug 02 01:50:44 that's what I gonna do now Aug 02 01:50:47 and I think some announcement happened recently that they were going to power the local naval base with some sort of tidal power plant Aug 02 01:50:48 cya Aug 02 01:51:05 the tidal stuff is crazy :D Aug 02 01:51:44 :) Aug 02 01:51:51 allthough a tad more reliable than wind turbines Aug 02 01:51:57 Australia is also building a nice fast broadband network Aug 02 01:52:05 much faster than what most of the US has access to Aug 02 01:52:38 and google started their 1000mbps service Aug 02 01:52:41 jonwil: if I'd compare with the US I'd start with their energy grid Aug 02 01:52:50 im stuck with 7/0.5 Mb Aug 02 01:54:06 I am currently getting 16 down 1 up Aug 02 01:54:09 or so Aug 02 01:54:14 on ADSL2+ Aug 02 01:54:29 and unlike most of the US I have genuine choice in providers Aug 02 01:55:25 lol Aug 02 01:55:36 3g network here works at 5/3.... Aug 02 01:55:37 and unlike most of the us citizens I live in europe :) Aug 02 01:55:53 3g being better than adsl on my home Aug 02 01:55:57 * RiD rages Aug 02 01:56:17 I get 500GB a month download quota and have not come anywhere near that amount Aug 02 01:56:24 when signal is strong it's 5/5 Aug 02 01:56:38 i have "9999999" Aug 02 01:56:57 a few more 9 or zeros. really. Aug 02 01:57:09 hm I have 32 / 2 Mbps here Aug 02 01:57:31 my school has 20/23. This was before they gave the wifi password and usernames to everyone Aug 02 01:57:47 ever since it's been 2/1 because everyone is using it Aug 02 01:58:09 When the new National Broadband Network hits my area (which is in the next batch of areas to be rolled out) I will be able to get up to 100Mbps Aug 02 01:58:24 depending on how much I want to pay Aug 02 01:59:12 here one can get 100/100 already, though my street doesn't have the cables yet Aug 02 01:59:51 i'm going Aug 02 02:01:45 prices are reasonable too, I am paying $25 a month for a home phone line (which I need for ADSL even though I don't make phone calls on it at all), $49.99 for internet and $14.99 for my mobile phone plan Aug 02 02:02:04 well reasonable by .au standards anyway :P Aug 02 02:02:37 although my phone line rental cost is going to go up by $2 a few months :( Aug 02 02:02:42 in a few months Aug 02 02:02:53 greedy bastards :P Aug 02 02:03:52 hm 35€ for landline, tv (with digital hd stuff) and 35/4 Internet + add another 9€ for my mobile plan Aug 02 02:04:57 I dont pay for TV, I get enough TV as it is for free over the air Aug 02 02:05:07 and for anything else there is always YouTube :P Aug 02 02:05:46 while technically it is free over the air it's impossible to get a sattelite dish on the roof Aug 02 02:06:14 s/sattelite/satellite/ Aug 02 02:06:20 this is just over-the-air with a normal TV antenna Aug 02 02:06:44 tv antenna contains only 5 channels here, and also impossible to mount in this house Aug 02 02:10:37 well, here in Poland we have "agressive" DVB-T mpeg4 campaing Aug 02 02:10:52 agressive as in "analog will be turned off in few months at all" Aug 02 02:11:22 it's a pity, though, that even with custom made fractal, I can't get all stations in center of Poznan. although, it's local problem, as rest of the city have it in fork inserted into antenna socket Aug 02 02:11:40 I get about 17 channels over-the-air from 5 networks plus a local "community" station Aug 02 02:11:47 I needed to construct MEGA big fractal antenna and hang it out 3 meter out of balcony, to have what I have, even ;) Aug 02 02:12:08 well, net isn't bad, I have 100 MB/s for reasonable price Aug 02 02:12:17 and 50 MB for even more reasonable one Aug 02 02:12:22 upload sucks a little, 5MB Aug 02 02:12:25 mb Aug 02 02:12:28 and 50 and 100 also mb Aug 02 02:12:29 not MB Aug 02 02:12:41 mobile one sucks, though, limits are terribly low Aug 02 02:12:50 and 3G coverage only in cities, most of the time Aug 02 02:13:10 ShadowJK, I understand, but You know, everyone is free to burn own device with i2cset anyway...:p Aug 02 02:13:10 Pay TV here would cost me $45 per month for the base package and even more to get the good channels Aug 02 02:13:14 which is why I dont have it Aug 02 02:13:15 publicizing knowledge isn't bad ;) Aug 02 02:13:31 paytv quite cheap here, although I don't watch Tv at all, basically Aug 02 02:13:47 I'm just pissed off that they've took radio stations out of DVB-T mux'es Aug 02 02:14:17 it was my maion rationale behind paying hard earned 30 USD for ideal condition winfat digital/analog hybrid :( Aug 02 02:14:24 It's great, anyway Aug 02 02:14:39 need to pestfer Pali for modules into KP, one day Aug 02 02:15:06 USB one, but have both digital and analog TV + radio, mpeg4 and mpeg2 all-together, basically everything, except fubarish US standards Aug 02 02:15:27 ]+ weight something like 50 gram, and does decoding in hardware :P Aug 02 02:17:04 * nox- has phone + adsl 2 Mbit for ~40 eur w/o cap, sat tv astra 19E2 with about 30 fta hd channels (some duplicates with local programming at times tho) and lots more sd Aug 02 02:17:50 net acces sounds ridicolously expensive Aug 02 02:18:13 2 Mb here is... like 7 usd? Aug 02 02:18:27 but ADSL generally get on my nerves Aug 02 02:18:58 yeah there are cheaper isps but service there is even worse (and i probably could upgrade to 8 Mbit or so at this one) Aug 02 02:19:02 need to buy 50 Mb/s package from cable TV, as soon as i'll stop using open network, that by luck is nearby Aug 02 02:19:24 it's exacty 2Mb/s download 376 kbps upload Aug 02 02:19:32 and surprisingly, works very reliably Aug 02 02:20:12 my wrt54gl is sucking this net, and another one propagates it under my own, encrypted ssid for rest of house, as it's available in only one part of house :P Aug 02 02:20:27 and by open, i mean really open, no wep, no anything Aug 02 02:20:29 :) Aug 02 02:20:43 no mac filtering even Aug 02 02:20:47 * nox- uses wifi only for the smartphone Aug 02 02:20:55 sounds like card nubmer phishing candidate ;p Aug 02 02:21:18 I only use the WiFi for the N900 also Aug 02 02:21:36 same here Aug 02 02:21:39 Ethernet is faster and better to connect the Gentoo box, the Windows box and the PVR Aug 02 02:21:50 my notebook (which act as desktop, 995 of time) is connected via ethernet cable Aug 02 02:22:30 tmo down? Aug 02 02:29:09 TMO is working for me Aug 02 02:42:48 started to work a while ago Aug 02 02:42:50 zeq, ping Aug 02 02:43:03 I've installed fennec from thumb, and it segfaults jsut a few seconds after openin **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 02 02:59:58 2012