**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 22 03:00:00 2012 Aug 22 04:37:41 any iOS developers here? Aug 22 04:53:10 Was just curious about maemo users take on iOS dev. I'm starting to make an iOS app, but I use an n900 of course Aug 22 05:23:35 LOL Aug 22 05:23:39 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiVnMazRIII&feature=youtube_gdata_player Aug 22 05:23:47 disney's attack on opensource Aug 22 05:23:55 it's almost like joe camel all over again! Aug 22 10:09:16 Estel_, u awake? Aug 22 10:43:22 Hi. When I plug in my headset from my Nokia N9 into my Thinkpad T61p running Ubuntu 12.04 x64 the sound is pretty low untill I press a button on my headset (where the mic is). Does anyone had a similar problem and does anyone know how I can get louder sound without pressing that button? I had a similar problem with my headset form my Nokia N900. Aug 22 10:43:48 Well louisdk Aug 22 10:44:22 I have the prob that the extra line on the 3,5mm plug is evil Aug 22 10:44:40 I have to plug it in for 3/4, then the sound is good Aug 22 11:02:33 timo it's louis ck :) Aug 22 12:08:54 this is weird... everything seems to connect correctly in my n900 except apt-get update :) Aug 22 12:10:20 proxy? Aug 22 12:23:38 no, I'm connected through a shared connection on a Windows 7 computer. Aug 22 12:23:53 the funny thing is now one of the repositories managed to answer. Aug 22 12:24:22 first I received Network unreachable messages, then I got gzip errors and now it seems it might even work as expected :) Aug 22 12:26:02 at least for some repositories Aug 22 12:26:09 I guess I'll try again at home Aug 22 12:27:20 thanks for answering, anyway :) Aug 22 12:34:24 (ram expansion): starting point: http://www.hkinventory.com/public/OfferInventResult.asp?search=offerinvent&MainCate=&SubCate=&Order=&keywords=&words=&mode=&brand=&datecode=&MinQty=&iSearchCateCrit=&MultiSearch=0&pnums=KAT00F00&btnSubmit=Search&Crit1=0&Membership=0&orderby=0 Aug 22 12:36:28 then visit all the linked pages, to occasionally find detailed data about the product (RAM size, NAND size, pinout?) and maybe even links to datasheets Aug 22 12:37:03 also google for each type listed there Aug 22 12:37:43 after a day or two of work, you know 99.5% what component you would like to get to try the RAM expansion Aug 22 12:38:17 meh, no estel, no HtheB, nobody around who pestered me yesterday Aug 22 12:38:46 wmarone: ^^^ Aug 22 12:47:13 DocScrutinizer05: :) Aug 22 12:50:55 For upgrading the n900? Aug 22 12:51:20 yeah - it's messy. I was unable to find sources for the one part that I found that looked plausible. Aug 22 12:51:33 POP RAM isn't really a commonly sold item through disties. Aug 22 12:59:59 SpeedEvil: do you by any chance recall the part number, or where you found it? Aug 22 13:00:54 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/81716996/Cep-Telefonu-Tamir-Kursu for those who think it's easy to find the right part - this is as well stuff you need to read to gather any available bit of info Aug 22 13:02:10 or you contact some friend EE in TPE or HK who knows a bit about sourcing, and ask him to call Samsung about compatible PoP-chip with larger RAM Aug 22 13:02:14 I vaguely recall I went through the micron part selector Aug 22 13:02:26 and it came up with a couple that looked at least plausible. Aug 22 13:02:35 :nod: Aug 22 13:02:37 - the package seems custom for the OMAP Aug 22 13:02:59 So an POP138 (???) parts have a reasonable chance of working. Aug 22 13:03:21 the approach to use a complete SoC PoP stack stolen from another device seems best approach Aug 22 13:03:32 Indeed. Aug 22 13:03:50 Ideally a stack with a 720MHz rated processor under it :) Aug 22 13:04:12 :nod: Aug 22 13:04:36 Some other devices are lots easier. The nexus 7 RAM looks almost trivial to upgrade. Aug 22 13:04:45 also way "easier" to swap a whole SoC than just the PoP Aug 22 13:05:06 Well - as I understand it, the stacks are not glued together in any way Aug 22 13:05:10 they're just balled together Aug 22 13:05:47 but yes, getting one to melt without the other... Aug 22 13:06:03 if nothing else works, you also could do a piggyback PCB on top of CPU that interfaces to POP138(?) on the bottom and to two or more chips for RAM and NAND on top side Aug 22 13:06:21 :) Aug 22 13:07:51 you could also design and build your own phone Aug 22 13:08:15 http://www.mauve.plus.com/opensourcehw.txt Aug 22 13:08:15 so where are those eager hackers who asked about how to destro... err expand their RAM? Aug 22 13:08:22 It's unfortunately complex. Aug 22 13:08:30 r00t|home: Aug 22 13:09:06 And I want to, but I have no energy. Waaaaay more important stuff is unfortunately getting neglected. Aug 22 13:09:15 I actually already connsidered cloning N900 exactly, but even that is more than difficult, regarding the sourcing situation Aug 22 13:09:38 Paint the roof of the gazebo, replace the sheds walls, fix my bathroom, ... Aug 22 13:09:46 indeed. Aug 22 13:10:10 I keep looking at teeny miniPCI 3G modems, and my crap android tablet. Aug 22 13:10:25 if anybody is eager to go that route, why not start with GTA04? Aug 22 13:10:55 (crap in comprison to my n7, it's OK, but comparing a 800MHz proc to 1.4GHz) Aug 22 13:11:03 Lack of actual hw. Aug 22 13:24:01 Estel_ Aug 22 13:24:02 ping, poke.. or whatever Aug 22 13:24:02 just wake up Aug 22 13:24:02 :D Aug 22 13:24:09 hm? Aug 22 13:24:49 mplayer /home/user/porn.mpeg Aug 22 13:24:55 ops, why you're disturbing me, HtheB? Aug 22 13:25:09 accourding to my nephews, it will work Aug 22 13:25:10 they can swap the chip without problems Aug 22 13:25:10 since there s no silicon next to the chip Aug 22 13:25:40 sounds great, although, from experienc,e I wouldn't be so sure about that. CPU stuck between it and PCB isn't problem? Aug 22 13:25:43 why not MyDocs? your home dir will be full in no time :p Aug 22 13:25:52 nope Aug 22 13:25:52 he, he Aug 22 13:25:55 no prob Aug 22 13:26:16 the problem is: finding the chip Aug 22 13:26:20 read the topic Aug 22 13:26:22 someone replied Aug 22 13:26:30 2gb ram + 4gb flash Aug 22 13:26:32 well, I've heard about people who're able to do things, that seasoned E engineers state as impossible, so, it's not that I don't belive it. Maybe You're lucky and have skilled nephew Aug 22 13:26:46 I'll check it, but 2GB RAM sounds like a no-go for our omap Aug 22 13:27:02 talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1254522#post1254522 Aug 22 13:27:05 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1254522#post1254522 Aug 22 13:27:08 4GB flash pose some problems, too (but not to big, can be overcome by big enough microSD) Aug 22 13:27:18 sure, sure, i'll check it :) Aug 22 13:27:24 thanks for pointers Aug 22 13:35:23 do you think it's in GB or in Gb? Aug 22 13:44:20 Estel_, still watching pr0n? Aug 22 13:44:33 nooope, reading TMO Aug 22 13:44:41 more porn there, daily Aug 22 13:44:52 exactly Aug 22 13:44:53 :p Aug 22 13:47:04 Estel_, what can we do with more ram on the N900? Aug 22 13:47:15 port harmattan? :p Aug 22 13:47:20 everything, You know what RAM is used for Aug 22 13:47:33 well, harmattan programs already run on n900 via meecolay or something like that Aug 22 13:47:47 most likely, chromium and iceweasle is going to start flying in super speed Aug 22 13:48:04 and every other Ed program (which worked well even now, with more RAM, it would literally fly) Aug 22 13:48:13 what friggin topic? Aug 22 13:48:45 DocScrutinizer05, well, it's progressing ;) Aug 22 13:49:04 no, it's a prime number Aug 22 13:49:43 [2012-08-22 15:26:30] 2gb ram + 4gb flash [2012-08-22 15:26:46] I'll check it, but 2GB RAM sounds like a no-go for our omap Aug 22 13:49:50 sort your nomenclature Aug 22 13:50:05 nope, i'll check thread Aug 22 13:50:15 2GB rAM is a no go for our omap no matter of my checking ;) Aug 22 13:50:19 don't cut it out of context. Aug 22 13:50:36 read the topic Aug 22 13:50:44 I'll check it Aug 22 13:50:57 talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1254522#post1254522 Aug 22 13:51:01 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1254522#post1254522 Aug 22 13:53:32 those chips are always bit size, never byte size since your arch could use 8, 16, 32 words Aug 22 14:00:37 so you mean that it's 256 MB (4Gb) RAM and 512 MB (4Gb)? Aug 22 14:01:02 DocScrutinizer05, ^^^ Aug 22 14:01:51 (unless it's consumer retail flash) Aug 22 14:02:31 4Gb / 8 Aug 22 14:02:42 = GB Aug 22 14:02:48 yep Aug 22 14:03:06 thats why I calculated it as 256 MB RAM and 512 MB Flash Aug 22 14:03:25 reread your post Aug 22 14:03:30 unless, as said, it was MB, and someone just mixed Mb with MB when writing about it (haven't checked topic yet) Aug 22 14:03:37 oh god, you guys are actually swapping out mounted RAM now? Aug 22 14:04:03 some guys again ponder it ;-P Aug 22 14:04:11 I thought I've seen crazy, but doing it on a modern SOC tops it Aug 22 14:04:27 I'd suggest to swap complete SoC PoP stack though Aug 22 14:04:39 not as simple as 80s/90s hardhacks Aug 22 14:05:44 actually redoing PoP stacking is pretty hard, since it's not a normal PCB and normal soldering, and no fresh virgin device on one end at least Aug 22 14:06:44 so when can I get a refurbished n900 with 32GB RAM? :) :) Aug 22 14:06:50 swapping the complete SoC (incl PoP stack) is maybe feasible Aug 22 14:07:33 DocScrutinizer05, sure, but finding compatible OMAP in stack isn't harder than finding just OneNAND? Aug 22 14:07:45 not at all Aug 22 14:07:54 get it from palm or whatever Aug 22 14:08:15 pandaboard, pandora... Aug 22 14:08:26 sometimes I forget 32bit addressing is limited to 4GB Aug 22 14:09:22 DocScrutinizer05, sure, but how to make N90 0work with such omap Aug 22 14:09:41 are You sure that closed things aren't fixed for our omap? Wouldn't it need to be *very* similar? Aug 22 14:09:49 well, it has to be same processor of course Aug 22 14:09:53 same chip Aug 22 14:10:26 but, same model numbe,r as ShadowJK mentioned, ranged from 500 mhz overclocked to 600 from star,t to 1GHZ not overclocked Aug 22 14:10:43 9and working on much lower voltage) Aug 22 14:10:46 and the only problem I see might be with TrustZone and cert Aug 22 14:10:55 hm Aug 22 14:12:10 the binning (selection of chips to different speed/voltage steppings) might be neglectable, though you for sure want some "better" chip bin than the one we already got Aug 22 14:12:35 there won't be a problem with underclocking / overvolting Aug 22 14:13:08 at least it's for sure less of a problem than OC&undervolting Aug 22 14:13:17 ;-) Aug 22 14:13:32 ;) Aug 22 14:13:53 get a chip with exactly same label and you're probably fine Aug 22 14:15:02 TI had no motivation to change footprint/pinout of omap3430 series, since that would introduce problems that aren't needed for anything Aug 22 14:15:45 but you should make damn sure you get Nokia xloader running on your new CPU Aug 22 14:15:58 so... what should I do Aug 22 14:16:04 with the new root key in ROMBL Aug 22 14:16:06 talk in English please :p Aug 22 14:16:28 (plain english) Aug 22 14:16:30 :D Aug 22 14:16:57 I'm not sure how the bootoption pins are configured on N900, so whether device even boots up in secure mode or not Aug 22 14:16:59 Estel_, just point me out what I should do :) Aug 22 14:17:24 jacekowski should know about that stuff afaik Aug 22 14:20:06 again with this? :D Aug 22 14:21:51 javispedro: hi! yeah, seems somebody found an iron-artist who claims he could do a BGA swap Aug 22 14:22:32 javispedro: so the old dream of 0.5, 1, even 2 or 4 GB of RAM resurrected Aug 22 14:22:58 meh Aug 22 14:23:00 it's probably as immortal as the desire to OC Aug 22 14:23:26 DocScrutinizer05, well, trhumb was also claimed by many* gurus to be impossible ;) Aug 22 14:23:45 more like "to be useless" Aug 22 14:23:49 also? Aug 22 14:23:51 and Oc works fine without any trustable report of damage, for ~3,5 years... so, it's not exactly best argument against it ;) Aug 22 14:23:52 (and I still claim it :) ) Aug 22 14:24:02 javispedro, You may claim it, but facts seem to prove otherwise Aug 22 14:24:10 swap usage dropped considerably Aug 22 14:24:20 check maemo-developers mailing list Aug 22 14:24:22 and yes, nobody ever said thumb is impossible afaik. It always been "don't think about it!" Aug 22 14:24:30 20 MiB is not "considerably" Aug 22 14:24:40 20 MB out of 256 IS considerably. Aug 22 14:24:48 not to mention that it's more or less beginning Aug 22 14:24:55 add to this performance benefits from new toolchain ;) Aug 22 14:25:12 well, the latter is true. Aug 22 14:25:18 remembe,r we still don't have everything sitting in ram as bin; compiled to thumb Aug 22 14:25:34 and you will never have because a lot of it is closed source. Aug 22 14:25:47 as for RAM swap, as said dozens of time, I don't hold my breath for it, but I definitelly keep thumbs (sic!) for this efforts Aug 22 14:26:15 as too many times I've seen "don't even think about it" or "impossible" from experienced people, that later was proven to be just matter of discipline and effort in achieving it Aug 22 14:26:19 estel, even if I swap the ram with the palm pre plus one Aug 22 14:26:23 well, the coll. term is "crossing fingers" Aug 22 14:26:25 dont i have to reprogram it? Aug 22 14:26:42 HtheB, it's the same omap - exactly same - so such need shouldn't arise Aug 22 14:26:49 Estel_: that is a false position Aug 22 14:26:57 forother, follow DocScrutinizer05's advice to ask jacekowski about trusted zone Aug 22 14:27:04 Estel_: most of what has been said as impossible has been, well, impossible. Aug 22 14:27:09 freemangordon may know something about it to, due to work on thumb Aug 22 14:27:14 HtheB, it's more or less unknown ground Aug 22 14:27:20 no one outside TI know it for sure Aug 22 14:27:26 you won't know until You check it Aug 22 14:27:49 javispedro, sure, I'm talking about things that were said as impossible, because most people wasn't willing to show enough effort to try Aug 22 14:27:53 like thumb ;) Aug 22 14:28:07 so if this is successful, did I made something awesomeness for our community? Aug 22 14:28:08 well, everybody outside TI knows, as soon as you read complete SPRUF98D Aug 22 14:28:23 HtheB, definitelly Aug 22 14:28:32 someone will have to find a N900 they are willing to sacrifice for the cause of identifying if its possible to upgrade any hardware chips in N900 Aug 22 14:28:49 *if* you would manage to make N90 0fully usable with 512 MB or 1GB of RAM, it would be rather "breakthrough" than a "just awesome" Aug 22 14:28:57 i think i have a mainboard laying around Aug 22 14:29:01 at my nephew Aug 22 14:29:04 jonwil, agaik HtheB want to sacrifice his own device Aug 22 14:29:18 indeed, a front page headline in MWKN Aug 22 14:29:21 someone is gonna do the dirty job... so Aug 22 14:29:35 it is not going to be a breakthrough Aug 22 14:29:38 DocScrutinizer05: it might turn out that some wiring is needed so RAM chip to correctly recognized, never search for that in TRM though Aug 22 14:29:41 because as DocScrutinizer05 once put rate of success is very low Aug 22 14:29:45 and possibly a business opportunity for 50..300 reworks Aug 22 14:29:47 HtheB, basically, it *would* be vallaha of hardware side, not lesser than thumb and new compiler on software side Aug 22 14:30:09 javispedro, but rate of success was purely made up Aug 22 14:30:14 no one tried it, so no one know Aug 22 14:30:19 freemangordon: quite possible Aug 22 14:30:23 Estel_: what do you mean by "no one tried"? Aug 22 14:30:32 if HtheB nephew will replace ram in 20 devices, we will have good start for calculating chances Aug 22 14:30:42 javispedro, no one tried, physically, to replace N900 RAM Aug 22 14:30:45 oneNAND Aug 22 14:30:47 Estel_: _everyone_ is _everywhere_ trying to reball stuff Aug 22 14:30:47 to be precise Aug 22 14:30:52 or whole PoP Aug 22 14:30:57 Estel_: I've tried to reball a Palm T|X OneNAND chip Aug 22 14:30:59 Estel_, did you check ur pm? Aug 22 14:31:00 Estel_: to much failure Aug 22 14:31:09 Estel_: So stop making it trivially easy -- it is not. Aug 22 14:31:17 javispedro, OTOH, HtheB's nephew claims to have replaced dozens balls eMMC's Aug 22 14:31:23 heh Aug 22 14:31:24 No wonder Aug 22 14:31:24 on phones Aug 22 14:31:40 eMMC is the easier of the pack because it is more or less standard MMC interface (few pins) Aug 22 14:31:42 they can change it, if there is no silicon on the chip itself Aug 22 14:31:53 HtheB: that's the second to most absurd thing I've heard today. Aug 22 14:31:55 and on the N900, they didnt use silicone Aug 22 14:32:01 I kinda play devil advocate here, as - again - I don't hold my breath - but, it's definitelly worth trying, if someone have means and will to do Aug 22 14:32:33 javispedro, agreed about eMMC Aug 22 14:32:38 I aLSO think that it's going to be harder Aug 22 14:32:45 its some sort of glue that is on the sides of the emmc Aug 22 14:32:48 please note that there's a reason that many of the open source hardware improvements (e.g. GTA04) replace entire PCBs never single chips Aug 22 14:32:52 well, person who is accounted for doing it saw board Aug 22 14:33:15 and rated chances high. I'ts possible, and even likely, that he overrated his chances Aug 22 14:33:26 but it's also possible that he is better skilled in practice, that we are in theoretizing ;P Aug 22 14:33:38 no point in discouraging, before actual attempt Aug 22 14:33:57 of course with all warnings, that fail is most likely fatal for chip, board, or both Aug 22 14:34:44 javispedro, if I would have infra-red soldering station-lab (this one that also ultra-fast pre-heat parts of pcb), I would already "waste" dozens of N900's motherboards Aug 22 14:35:13 when HtheB said, that his nephew want to do it with hot air station, I also rised my brew. But, heck, in fact, what doI know about his practice, methods, skills, etc? Aug 22 14:35:27 Estel_: our most gifted EE at OM tried to fix defective soldering on 10 proto PCB, resoldered S3C64000. Yield: 30% Aug 22 14:35:38 I know, i remember it Aug 22 14:35:52 well, to be sure about N900, there is only one way... :P Aug 22 14:36:20 OMAP footprint is no way different to S3C64000 Aug 22 14:36:26 after all, even failed attempt could produce some ncie documentation Aug 22 14:36:29 nice* Aug 22 14:36:29 it is actually worse... Aug 22 14:36:37 * Estel_ nods @ javispedro Aug 22 14:36:40 but of course the skills may differ, and the PCB footprints as well Aug 22 14:36:53 guys, just tell me what I have to get and which chip i have to swap with... thats all I need to know as a hardmware n00b Aug 22 14:37:08 meh @ practice methods and skills :) Aug 22 14:37:46 OTOH, again, it's known fact, that in some exotic countries (sorry for calling turkey exotic, no offense meant), are people that successfuly master to do absolutely crazy modifications - just because they want to sacrifice time and, some times, devices for training Aug 22 14:37:52 again, not holding my breath, but... Aug 22 14:37:52 somebody claimed palm pre+ has same omap3430 but with 512M RAM Aug 22 14:38:09 DocScrutinizer05, yea, it was robbiethe1st. Isn't it true? Aug 22 14:38:33 I do not think it has the same OneNAND amount at least though Aug 22 14:38:33 HtheB: get that phone, remove SoC carefully there, and replace OMAP3430 of N900 with the one you saved from the other phone Aug 22 14:38:35 javispedro, as for merit, do You know how to find suitable part? No matter if in low or big quantities? Aug 22 14:38:56 HtheB, palm pre plus SoC is good candidate, indeed Aug 22 14:39:04 ok Aug 22 14:39:20 DocScrutinizer05 suggets to replace BOTH processor and OneNAND, aka whole SoC. It's probably easier and have more chance of success than only OneNAND. Aug 22 14:39:23 Estel_: see SpeedEvil's comments Aug 22 14:39:28 in backscroll Aug 22 14:39:29 If Your nephew is absolutely sure, he may try to replace oneNAND only Aug 22 14:39:36 the omap chip, that isnt the samsung one, right? Aug 22 14:39:53 the omap chip is a TI chip Aug 22 14:39:57 DocScrutinizer05, lost backscroll, I was doiong some maintentance on power line today Aug 22 14:40:13 HtheB, Samsung is OneNAND Aug 22 14:40:18 under it, there is Omap Aug 22 14:40:28 both OneNAND and omap are SoC Aug 22 14:40:30 that's called Package on Package Aug 22 14:40:32 system on a chip Aug 22 14:40:33 or PoP Aug 22 14:40:48 PoP, not SoC, true, SoC is somewthing little different Aug 22 14:40:49 anyway Aug 22 14:40:52 Samsung is OneNAND Aug 22 14:40:52 OneNAND is no SoC Aug 22 14:40:56 yes, yes Aug 22 14:41:00 SoC is under OneNAND Aug 22 14:41:04 CPu and DSP, yes? Aug 22 14:41:09 (soC) Aug 22 14:41:36 HtheB, to make it more clear. From top, to bottom (bottom is PCB) Aug 22 14:41:46 and GPIO and x-bridge and whatnot, and cam/LCD interface and and and Aug 22 14:41:49 OneNAND (with Samsung mark) -> OMAP -> PCB Aug 22 14:42:09 DocScrutinizer05, right, System on a Chip = many things bundled into one chip Aug 22 14:42:17 yep Aug 22 14:42:36 HtheB, confused, or is it understandable?;) Aug 22 14:42:46 confused Aug 22 14:42:59 HtheB: it's a sandwich Aug 22 14:43:03 just edit the picture forme with circels :p Aug 22 14:43:04 again. On photo You have seen Aug 22 14:43:11 there will be only one circle Aug 22 14:43:15 samsung = OneNAND Aug 22 14:43:21 Omap is *under* it Aug 22 14:43:26 sandwich, as said Aug 22 14:43:35 the CPU/SoC is *under* the Samsung MEM Aug 22 14:43:37 You don't see it, it's between Samsung (OneNAND) and PCB Aug 22 14:43:54 OneNAND is soldered to OMAP, and OMAP is soldered to PCB Aug 22 14:44:04 thus good luck on desoldering OneNAND only Aug 22 14:44:10 (leaving OMAP) Aug 22 14:44:16 and soldering replacement Aug 22 14:44:17 that' Aug 22 14:44:38 why DocScrutinizer05 suggested replacing *whole* chip, i.e. OMAP+ OneNAND Aug 22 14:44:47 even if you make it to unsolder the onenand PoP from the SoC layer, the balls are messed and resoldering is pretty hard Aug 22 14:44:51 i.e. desoldering it to the PCB, from both N900 and palm pre plus, and replacing it Aug 22 14:45:19 HtheB - generally, tell you nephew to do as pleases him, he may resolder whole chip, or half of it :D Aug 22 14:45:24 if he manages to Aug 22 14:45:27 :D Aug 22 14:45:41 just called him Aug 22 14:45:52 and you don't know if fab, on packaging (soldering) the Soc+OneNAND sandwiches, did even use glue to avoid later desoldering when soldering the package to PCB Aug 22 14:45:56 he had a n900 board laying somewhere Aug 22 14:46:03 so, lets see if he can deattach it Aug 22 14:46:15 yea Aug 22 14:46:23 now I understand what you mewan Aug 22 14:46:24 mean Aug 22 14:46:30 so it might be impossible to unsolder the OneNAND from SoC Aug 22 14:46:34 its just like a b-day cake Aug 22 14:46:37 this, + what DocScrutinizer05 said, make it more feasible to replace whole PoP (whole chip) Aug 22 14:46:40 cream on the inside :p Aug 22 14:46:48 yes Aug 22 14:46:53 PCB is cake, OMAP is cream Aug 22 14:47:12 OneNAND is one cake, PCB is another, OMAP is cream Aug 22 14:47:17 bon apetit Aug 22 14:47:23 ._. Aug 22 14:47:50 what is easier, is to remove both cake and cream (OneNAND + OMAP), and replace it with other cream bundled with bigger cake Aug 22 14:48:11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Package_on_package Aug 22 14:48:21 theoretically, it's also possible to leave cream, and just replace upper cake with bigger, but it's harder, and may be even impossible (if they used soldering + glue) Aug 22 14:48:30 I'm getting hungry Aug 22 14:49:41 hmmm :/ Aug 22 14:49:45 hah, leant PoPt is the oneNAND and PoPb is the SoC Aug 22 14:50:17 DocScrutinizer05, don't confuse him even more Aug 22 14:50:37 all that is needed for purely hardware'ish attemmpt on replace is to remove whole mess from pcxb and replace it with other mess from palm pre plus Aug 22 14:50:42 nah, it's all easy, wikipedia FTW Aug 22 14:50:46 yep Aug 22 14:50:55 tbh never heard of that terminology :) Aug 22 14:51:13 either way this is not true 3d stacking, the memory controllers are still on the peripherty Aug 22 14:51:15 * DocScrutinizer05 neither Aug 22 14:51:26 but it's pretty clear, and I like it Aug 22 14:51:32 (aka ddr's pins will go to the pcb) Aug 22 14:52:50 can you clone the nokia keys/first stage bootloader etc from the old soc? (if you use a palm pre+ one) Aug 22 14:53:06 >>Any mechanically mating top package can be used. For a low-end phone, a smaller memory configuration may be used on the top package. For a high-end phone, more memory could be used with the same bottom package.[1] This simplifies inventory control by the OEM<< Aug 22 14:53:25 the wonders of JEDEC standards Aug 22 14:53:47 jaska: nope Aug 22 14:53:55 thats what i thought. Aug 22 14:54:10 jaska: that's what I already mentioned as maybe worst problem in this approach Aug 22 14:54:51 see above "make damn sure your NOLO/Xloader will work with the new key in ROMBL" Aug 22 14:55:16 javispedro: hmm? Aug 22 14:57:27 javispedro: http://www.google.it/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CG0QFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fe2e.ti.com%2Fcfs-file.ashx%2F__key%2FCommunityServer-Discussions-Components-Files%2F353%2F7416.MT29C4G48MAZAPAKQ_2D00_5-IT_5F00_Micron-168_2D00_Ball-NAND-Flash-and-LPDDR-PoP-_2800_TI-OMAP_2900_-MCP.pdf&ei=iNc0UPGaAuqk4ASu64CABw&usg=AFQjCNEhPq6ICqDMejrYR7F8IJe7NPkIZA&cad=rja Aug 22 14:57:38 DocScrutinizer05: the Wikipedia page drawing is slightly misleading Aug 22 14:58:03 err, is it? Aug 22 14:58:22 is the SoC of smaller size than the PoPt? Aug 22 14:58:48 it is entirelly correct =) Aug 22 14:58:53 but yes, the SoC is smaller Aug 22 14:59:47 I don't think so, since the outer pad "ring" on PCBA is same pitch and 3 rows wide Aug 22 15:00:09 the diagram on sprabb3.pdf is more clear IMHO Aug 22 15:00:22 (it is the same though, I was just confused by wikipedia's one) Aug 22 15:00:44 basically, SoC's package is smaller, it is just pre-soldered on a PCB. Aug 22 15:00:45 eeek sprabb3.pdf ?? Aug 22 15:00:57 sounds like spruf98d Aug 22 15:01:03 DocScrutinizer05: no, goog it. Aug 22 15:02:22 javispedro, got a new build of sowatch for me yet? Aug 22 15:02:27 Fig.1 looaks absolutely identical Aug 22 15:02:31 GeneralAntilles: which version are you using? Aug 22 15:02:38 An old one. Aug 22 15:02:54 GeneralAntilles: http://depot.javispedro.com/metawatch/sowatch/sowatch_0.4.1_armel.deb Aug 22 15:03:31 0.3.1 Aug 22 15:03:36 DocScrutinizer05: you mean Fig2? Aug 22 15:03:54 well, that too Aug 22 15:04:09 (it is the same though, I was just confused by wikipedia's one) =) Aug 22 15:07:58 javispedro, aweeesomeeee Aug 22 15:14:28 nandtester here,is it possible to extract the stuff that was erased by nandtesting from a working device & "import" it into the broken one without soldering? Aug 22 15:16:26 cold flash isn't exactly that? Aug 22 15:16:35 (see maemo's wiki for cold flashing) Aug 22 15:29:46 sambo7: see Estel_^^^ Aug 22 15:30:20 sambo7: how would you "import" on a device that doesn't even boot NOLO? Aug 22 15:31:18 beyond that, find a nandread image of CAL partiton on maemo.cloud-7.de Aug 22 15:31:50 beware, I never dared to test restoring such image via nandwrite Aug 22 15:32:00 javispedro, love the update. Aug 22 15:32:08 o/ gan Aug 22 15:32:16 'Morning Aug 22 15:33:38 I treid the cold flash procedure...the deivce does load the temporary bootloader...but that's all it does...found a version of phoenix, but won't be able to test before friday Aug 22 15:34:37 sambo7: so if coldflash gives you semi-working device (bootable) but things like WLAN locale, WLAN MAC, BT MAC etc still fail due to erased CAL partition, feel free to try "importing" that CAL image to your CAL partition Aug 22 15:36:24 sambo7: talk to jacekowski about coldflashing. It's not exactly trivial, and I think you will need several consecutive steps to recover from your overkill damage Aug 22 15:37:45 device doesn't boot properly-get's stuck after loading the bootloader...jacekowski said that it's maybe to recover with the phoenix sw Aug 22 15:38:00 Pali also knows about coldflashing Aug 22 15:38:03 basically coldflashing should just flash the xloader&NOLO combo to the mtd0 partition, then this standard NOLO should be able to flash the rest like usual Aug 22 15:38:47 I.E. your device isn't supposed to work immediately after coldflashing Aug 22 15:39:06 it's just restored to a state where you can do a normal flashing Aug 22 15:39:11 is the dd_if=mtd1ro.bin the CAL image? Aug 22 15:39:19 when coldflashing, flasher send omap peripheral boot message to bootrom, then flasher send 2nd xloader image and omap bootrom will start that 2nd image Aug 22 15:39:23 one of them, yes Aug 22 15:39:41